sk-lore

[slow olive]

100% lolol

Another difference between them is pale king didnt want his subjects to worship him, but gms did

[frosty gate]

No, wait, she's not asleep during the Haunting, the whole point was that the bastards at the Citadel forgot their purpose and stopped playing music to keep her Asleep

[vestal swan]

You mean the root baby? It's not that the baby did all that it's that it was some old witch in the woods bullshit where Greyroot tried to possess her own child to be reborn. Which she has apparently done for a long ass time repeatedly

[frosty gate]

So she woke up and started the Haunting

[slow olive]

I thought she fully wakes up when hornet challenges her

[unreal estuary]

That's what I thought too

[frosty gate]

It seems like she was weak to get out of the cocoon until Hornet arrived, but she wasn't asleep from what I understand

[vestal swan]

Didn't they literally say it was keeping her asleep? I'm not certain but I thought I remembered somebody else quoting that

[frosty gate]

Or at the very least, she was half conscious

[frosty gate]

I understood both the Cocoon and the Music was supposed to keep her asleep

[slow olive]

Music faltered but the cocoon was still intact

[dusky bay]

I do wonder
Are the crows from the pintress group?
The crows are obviously not infected they just hate you
They are the only people in the game to dye themselves black when the void comes around
But they also use pins like the skinny dude
And when you get judged the throw a pin beside the bench you sit on
So are the crows other pintresses?

[slow olive]

So im leaning towards half asleep

[vestal swan]

I mean I guess they kind of have to work in tandem, the silk resonates with the music so one going off does kind of shut off the other

[slow olive]

Since she even made lace and phantom

[radiant badger]

Yo chat whats the lore on greymore, making a silksong map of the past of pharloom and i need to know if i need to keep it or expand it or idk

[frosty gate]

I'm convinced they were made before, Phantom's work is literally throw waste into Bile Water

[dusky bay]

Greymoor is raining silk

[frosty gate]

So she had to be created for the Citadel

[vestal swan]

I think a better question would be are the pinstresses craws, and I think it's possible

But I don't think they have the arm feathers actually

[radiant badger]

So like without the silk it's just a big cave im guessing?

[vestal swan]

Greymoor is raining rain

[dusky bay]

They do have a beak

[dusky bay]

No?
The dudes who have the things that point it at the air are trying to catch the silk

[vestal swan]

Similar but maybe not craws

[slow olive]

I agree with that yea but that would also be weird coz that means gms wanted the citadel, her cage, to still function

[frosty gate]

It's raining rain, but Silk is also falling from the Mills

[dusky bay]

2 dudes look in the air with their forks trying to do there job which is getting silk

[radiant badger]

So just big cave then like what would it be in the past do yall think

[slow olive]

Its rain AND silk i think

[vestal swan]

The factory workers are maintaining the machines badly

[dusky bay]

Ohhh so both then ok ok

[vestal swan]

It's not really raining silk it's coming off the machines

[dusky bay]

Also
If you never kill moorwing
Do the festival not have a big meat no more? :[

[stuck loom]

Maybe the exhaust vapor from the citadel condenses there

[slow olive]

Now this is making me think that the citadel being gms's cage worked in her favor coz that meant more bugs would get silk in themselves thus making her more in control of them, thus explaining why she made phantom and stationed her in the exhaust organ

[frosty gate]

Ok, before I say what I read, was that stated that she wanted the Citadel to function?

[slow olive]

Not sure lolol im just theorizing

[frosty gate]

Not really, that shit was fucking luck.
Mainly because the bugs in the Citadel are stupid

[radiant badger]

Lowkey just realized moorwing is a big ass mite

[slow olive]

I mean if she could make lace and phantom while half asleep, and lace being a pretty formidable knight for her, why didnt she appoint them to destroy the citadel bit by bit at least?

Why did she set lace to be a sentinel for pharloom

[frosty gate]

Oh ok, there doesn't seem to be any indication that Silk wanted The Citadel running, but she wanted to control Pharloom again.
One thing isn't the other

[slow olive]

Yea but the citadel still functioning even with the weavers gone might have aided in her desire to control pharloom again

[dusky bay]

Then what

[slow olive]

Since again, more bugs would be exposed to her silk and all that

[frosty gate]

Oh yeah you're right

[slow olive]

Luck or not, gms would take advantage of it once she realized that right?

[frosty gate]

Just checked it, you are 100% right

Lace was created while she was Half Asleep

I don't know about Phantom tho

[stuck loom]

Why would she want to destroy the citadel

[slow olive]

Yep, and gms couldve tasked her with killing off the vaultkeepers and the conductors to stop the songs lulling her to sleep and all that but lace didnt do that, she was tasked to guard it all instead

[slow olive]

Because the weavers built it to cage her i think

[frosty gate]

The song is already stopped

[slow olive]

They lulled her to sleep so they could be the rulers of pharloom

[frosty gate]

Only the Cocoon remains

[stuck loom]

That'd be the cocoon

[frosty gate]

The Song stopping is what prompted the Haunting

[slow olive]

Hmm whats maintaining the cocoon at this point

Is it just the cradle itself?

[slow olive]

Maybe phantom was given a lesser role coz her form came out more frayed (damaged), and lace was the more perfect vessel

[potent patio]

Is it likely that greymoor was established after the weavers left and the conductors began experimenting with silk?

[vestal swan]

why can't they just make a solid timeline for fuck sake

I guess that makes sense

[slow olive]

For the mystery

[frosty gate]

We could try do one like old times

[slow olive]

So we go crazy

[stuck loom]

I live for the ambiguity

[potent patio]

I’m guessing lace and phantom were made to stop pilgrims from reaching the citadel to weaken gms’s seal

[analog canyon]

well uh, what happened after the ending? im so confused

[vestal swan]

What ending did you get

[analog canyon]

uh, the one after you kill lost lace, or beat? or like defeat? and then the knight comes and carries you or some shi

how many endings are there?!

[dusky bay]

No? Then how is moorwing the meat-

[stuck loom]

A question I had was, if gms had her servants kidnapping weaver-spawns for her to absorb their powers, why did she not have them bring her the weaver corpses instead 😭

[potent patio]

We see ghost and they rescue you from the void and then the 7hr sesbian lex scene happens off screen

[stuck loom]

Like they were right there...

[vestal swan]

Usurp
Cursed
Void soaked (if you want to count that)
Sister of the void
4 I guess?

[analog canyon]

uhh, which one did i get?

[frosty gate]

Back when HK was kinda new, Godmaster hadn't released yet, we had a group in HK-lore and we just discussed the events of Hollow Knight, what happened first and what later, blah blah blah.
Sumwan was still active here, they were part of the group as well as me and Molasses I think it was their name? There were others but it was like 9 years ago

[vestal swan]

Sister of the void

[analog canyon]

how do i get the other ones?

[potent patio]

Sister of the void

[frosty gate]

Playing everything again

[potent patio]

Killing gms before getting the trap

[analog canyon]

oh i did that one as well, which ones that

[vestal swan]

For the first ending instead of playing music you bind grandmother silk
For the second ending you beat her while you have the root curse
The third ending is just the void taking over, it's not really an ending but it plays like one
And the 4th is what you did

[potent patio]

Weaver queen I think (the usurp option)

[analog canyon]

okay ic, i'm not going to do gms with the curse so what's the third ending? like how do you get that?

[slow olive]

The interface changing during that was nuts

[vestal swan]

Yeah crazy

[analog canyon]

it was so cool

[vestal swan]

It's not really an ending it's act 3 starting

[slow olive]

Team cherry didnt have to do it but im glad they did

[potent patio]

Oops mb I didn’t read the message

[analog canyon]

ahhh ic alright then in that case i got all the endings i'm willing to go for, aint no one gonna make me fight gms with that root thing attached

[slow olive]

Im gonna try it

Tbh gms fight isnt as bad as the radiance fight

[vestal swan]

Replace GMS
Turn her into root food
Turn her into void food
Turn her into void food and save her daughter (your aunt)

[stuck loom]

There's also the mr. mushroom bonus thingie

[potent patio]

Play witches crest for a while and you’ll get used to it

[slow olive]

Even found out u can swat away the spikes she summons up

[vestal swan]

If you throw a buzz saw down it can take out all the spikes and you don't have to worry about it

[slow olive]

They drop off the platform after u hit the spikes a couple of times

Oh dang the buzz saws work for it too?

The pale king genes coming in clutch

[potent patio]

You’re not related if it’s a piece of cloth imo

[frosty gate]

"Oh my god I've turned into Father"
Hornet probably

[slow olive]

I saw that art and saved it

I hope the account was the original tho

[stuck loom]

.

[frosty gate]

I'm pretty sure the powers would die if the are killed

[slow olive]

She had that angry mom thing going for them and wanted nothing to do with them

[frosty gate]

Plus she didn't want to absorb them, she wanted to punish them

[tough oxide]

how do we know that hornet is related to the hollow knight and the knight? (not the roaring)

[stuck loom]

I meant the graves we find around the map where hornet gets her powers from

[slow olive]

Thru the pale king

[frosty gate]

They're not graves, they're alive

"Punishment by casting"

They're cast in metal

[stuck loom]

Wuttt where is that from

[frosty gate]

Han Solo type shit

[slow olive]

Were all of those punishments?

[vestal swan]

I mean technically none of the things GMS made are related to her but yeah, by the weird logic of magically created children hornet is gms's granddaughter and lace is her aunt

[tough oxide]

is there snow in the graves

[slow olive]

Snow.... graves.....

[tough oxide]

(snowgrave reference)

[vestal swan]

I'm going to set all of you on fire

[tough oxide]

(roaring knight spawns on froggit)

[slow olive]

I thought some of those graves were memorials of some kind

Due to the needolin thingies on the bottom of some of them

Like their fellow weavers put them in there to resr

[tough oxide]

should i dream nail the hollwo knight

[stuck loom]

Yea wassup with that

[frosty gate]

Why would they be if they're hated

[random aspen]

do yall think white lady and unn were friends

[stuck loom]

So all of the text in the Slab describing prisoners refers to the Weavers? How do we know that

[slow olive]

I mean the one in mosshome seems to not be hated

[edgy barn]

A few of the spires have a harp table nearby that reads "Sister, spider, husk bound to X"

[frosty gate]

Unn very much dislikes them

[frosty gate]

I'm looking for the text

[random aspen]

why did she help her make queens gardens is she stupid

[stuck loom]

Penitent, Twelfth of the First.
Guilty of an unnamed sin.
Penance by casting.
Absolution not granted.

Oh i guess the First part could be the First children

yea it must be, first sinner is referred to as First of the First

[vestal swan]

She didn't help?

[stuck loom]

wow I didn't catch that

[frosty gate]

Yeah, "The First" refers to the Weavers that Silk made

[random aspen]

did white lady just take a part of greenpath

[slow olive]

Dang the wiki still has no weaver spire page yet

[random aspen]

and mde it pretty

[stuck loom]

Interestingg so the other numbers must mean something too

[frosty gate]

Yes, also this is HKLore stuff

[edgy barn]

"Sister, spider, husk bound to branch,
Watch over these bugs, passing safe,
Warded by fear,
No longer your meal." (Shellwood)

"Sister, spider, husk bound to moss,
Watch over these bugs born low,
Raised up by fervour fostered,
Born and caught within our web unknowing" (Moss Grotto)

[slow olive]

The weaver spire in mosshome had a nice message on it

[stuck loom]

there's also the Fourth and the Twelth

[random aspen]

mb but that channel is kinda dead

[frosty gate]

We don't know who's putting those up because there shouldn't be any Weavers in Pharloom. Unless it was Widow

[stuck loom]

The "no longer your meal" part still puzzles me

[slow olive]

Yea these ones! These ones give the implication that not all the bugs hated the weavers

[tough oxide]

why is silksong harder than nohitting all of ut+dr

[stuck loom]

That's obvious from the effigies

[frosty gate]

"Sister" woud imply that it was another Weaver

[slow olive]

Oh yea true

[edgy barn]

These were necessarily written by weavers. They are written in large rune harps and "sister, spider" is how weavers adress each other,

[slow olive]

Yea thats why i thought these ones were put their by other weavers not necessarily as prisons hans solo style

The first sinner's spire isnt just set in a spire its also locked in a sealed cage

[frosty gate]

Oh wait the Effigies

The Effigies are the connection i was looking for

[edgy barn]

Keelal liked eating pilgrims or smth

[slow olive]

The effigies also give the idea that the bugs prayed to the weavers

[frosty gate]

They are the proof that the Weavers were rulers of the Citadel once

[slow olive]

Mhm, and the bugs saw them as divine

Since the silk they gave them expanded their lifespans and could also heal them

Im guessing weavers set up the whole religion

The citadel religion, with vaultkeepers, conductors, and architects

[frosty gate]

I mean yeah, that much we know. There just wasn't any indications that they did

[spark valve]

there was kind of a lot

[frosty gate]

I mean, no statues or anything referring to Weavers themselves

[slow olive]

I think what twis is referring to is the lack of weaver imagery in the citadel

[frosty gate]

We know from the outside that Weavers did rule the city

[slow olive]

Weaver architecture has a distinct look as in in the spires and the weavenests

But none of that architecture is even visible in the citadel

[frosty gate]

But there was nothing in the city that was "Weaverlike"

[edgy barn]

Carving of Camora, Weaver of healing. A prayer is etched upon it. (Located West of Mosshome, below the entrance to Wormways. )
"Weaver, heal my sons, their fearful hearts, their limbs that shake at the climb to come. We pray, gift but a glimmer of your strength, that when we stand before your divinity, you see bugs shed free of fear."

Carving of Keelal, Weaver of the path. A prayer is etched upon it. (Located in Southern Shellwood. Accessible after completing the Rite of Rebirth Wish.)
"Blessed Weaver, lady of grace, you who see our sin, our frail shells, our voices weak, and still offer your protection. How great your mind to care so much for ones so lowly."

Carving of Atla, Weaver of time. A prayer is etched upon it. (located in The Slab (requires Key of Apostate).
"By grace of your example, and our history held full in mind, our song is yours, as your name is sacred. Weaver Atla, may you be praised eternal."

[stuck loom]

That's for their secret hideout stuff

[slow olive]

Interestingly the spire in the deep docks is in the process of being destroyed, makes me think the conductors were removing weaver related things from the citadel so the bugs could focus on them as the rulers

[edgy barn]

Camora and Keelal are likely the weaver spires we find in Mosshome and Shellwood respectively.

[frosty gate]

Or it was just destroyed by mistake. The Conductors don't seem to be against weavers, they did become negligent tho

[stuck loom]

Wait so is there anything indicating the weavers are immortal? @frosty gate

[edgy barn]

Widow is still alive.

or well, was.

[slow olive]

Or maybe the weavers used different architecture for the citadel to make themselves seem divine?

[frosty gate]

Widow was alive, when we got to her. Idk why you ask tho

[edgy barn]

The citadel was likely expanded and renovated under the conductors.

[slow olive]

Silk seems to have life prolonging properties

[vestal swan]

Weavers are at the very least unbelievably long lived bugs, their silk was being used to make normal bugs as near immortal as possible

Successfully apparently

[frosty gate]

Undead still means Inmortal, so yeah

[vestal swan]

Well no they were getting immortality out of it before everybody became zombies, they didn't fail like the sanctum

[frosty gate]

They just had to kill a couple hundreds

[vestal swan]

Horrible mutilations and bad experiments yes, failure no

[potent patio]

Also am I the only one who just realized that the pharloom logo is literally just gms’s cocoon?

[slow olive]

Their capacity to produce silk doesnt seem to be linked to their longevity tho, since widow had her silk production basically cut off coz the of the pins on her back so maybe theyre just naturally long-lived

[frosty gate]

The Citadel 1
PK 0

[edgy barn]

Widow still has silk, she just can't use it.

[slow olive]

She cant produce more of her own is what im saying

[fossil tendon]

ok I'm making a family tree of all the characters in Silksong

At the top I've got GMS. Is anyone above her?

[vestal swan]

Also I feel like we really gloss over the fact that the spool upgrades are literally body modifications, like they're not enchanted shards of ancient masks that enhance your body these things go inside the silk making part somewhere. Until I got to the red cutscene I was still willing to believe hornet was not a weaver genetically and was simply modified and taught all of their techniques

[edgy barn]

not that we know of

[slow olive]

Ari gibson

[fossil tendon]

It's pretty existential thinking that you're putting big metal objects into yourself to make your weaving better lol

Also is anyone directly related to GMS? Are Phantom and Lace or are they closer to creations

[vestal swan]

No genetic relations

[frosty gate]

I am choosing to believe that the Spools are not specifically physical and are more like a manifestation

[vestal swan]

She raised up the weavers to be her fake daughters from pharlids and possibly other minor bugs, then she made phantom n lace purely out of silk

[edgy barn]

I don't really get that impression from the description of the completed spool.

[slow olive]

Whats the description of it

[edgy barn]

"Artefact left behind by the Weavers, designed to collect and hold additional silk"

I always thought these were physical spools Hornet was wrapping her silk around.

[slow olive]

So it isnt installed directly inside hornet, its basically just another tool?

Makes sense especially coz of the extender spool tool we get that gets added on to the hud

[vestal swan]

But when you get a full one it refills your bar

Hmm

[slow olive]

Gives the implication that its hornet's equipment

[vestal swan]

I don't know it just seems really odd for this to be a thing she ties on to her belt

[fossil tendon]

What is a spool? Or is it something the game made up?

[slow olive]

A spool is the thing u wrap a thread around to store it

[fossil tendon]

I think it makes sense for it to be a tool

[edgy barn]

Back in HK picking a charm notch would refill your masks, I don't think these details have all that much meaning,

[fossil tendon]

Unless Hornet has like a sort of ephereal version of one, like something within herself?

Also what's Lace's & Hornet's relationship. Enemies? Family?

Both??

[slow olive]

Its complicated lmao

[fossil tendon]

I'll put that. "Complicated"

[vestal swan]

Aunt technically

[edgy barn]

If you are making a family tree, Lace and Hornet don't have a direct relation that would be relevant. Thought they would technically be Aunt and Niece.

[vestal swan]

(lace is the aunt)

[fossil tendon]

Who is the aunt

[vestal swan]

So is phantom actually

[fossil tendon]

Hahahahah thanks lmao

[slow olive]

Thats just by technicality

Wait so what was geo made of before

[opaque pier]

If GMS wanted kids why didnt she just do it the normal way?

[frosty gate]

Very technically

[slow olive]

She's a girl boss

[frosty gate]

Because it doesn't seem to be easy

[fossil tendon]

To be honest I’m unsure if normalcy exists within Silk

[frosty gate]

She has two kids and only one of them is okay

[slow olive]

GMS is a pale being of course she's gonna go about it the hard way

[vestal swan]

Geo is fossils, so are shards really, but also made of bone. You could say shards are just broken geo

[frosty gate]

Phantom is literally falling apart

[fossil tendon]

Does that mean Lace is doing ok?

[edgy barn]

Was Phantom discarded for being not okay or is she not okay because she was discarded?

[fossil tendon]

Because that doesn’t seem true. I’m new tho so idk

[slow olive]

So geo just exists normally in the world.... this begs the question: who makes the damn rosaries???

[frosty gate]

By comparison, yes, and she's losing it

[vestal swan]

I think she made phantom to be a daughter like lace but she didn't make her eternally youthful so she started aging and got abandoned

[fossil tendon]

So far

[vestal swan]

Probably citadel

[fossil tendon]

She got lazy with her genetic grafting lmao

[frosty gate]

I'm pretty sure that Lace isn't eternally youtful, but that Silk was keeping her youthful

[slow olive]

They have a rosary making machine somewhere

[frosty gate]

Phantom was discarded for being not okay

[fossil tendon]

IS there anyone Hornet is a sibling to?

[slow olive]

I thought she was made to look and act childlike

[edgy barn]

All the vessels

[vestal swan]

I mean I think the fact that lace is eternally a child was the fact that GMS was putting effort into keeping her permanently a child whereas phantom was not built for that long-term plan

[frosty gate]

THK and Ghost

[slow olive]

Hollow knight, the knight, and all the vessels

[fossil tendon]

"Ghost"? is that an SS character

[vestal swan]

TK and thk from the first game

[fossil tendon]

Or is that the big brother in HK?

[slow olive]

The lil guy in hk

[frosty gate]

Small brother in HK

[vestal swan]

They are not brothers or sisters they are just siblings

[fossil tendon]

Right they're not gendered. That makes sense

[slow olive]

They are hornet's siblings

She is their sister

[fossil tendon]

Is there a distinction between ages or shall I just lump them together as "siblings"?

[frosty gate]

Nothing indicates that she was made to be a child, just that she is childish

[fossil tendon]

Like is THK older or younger

[frosty gate]

And even then, I don't think she's a child

[slow olive]

Hornet is the older sister to all the void kiddies

[frosty gate]

Probably older

[fossil tendon]

Ok so

Hornet
THK
HK
Vessels

Is that the order?

[slow olive]

Oh right... hornet just calls her a child as an insult then lolol

[fossil tendon]

She acts pretty childish tbh

[frosty gate]

Caretaker does too, and I'm pretty sure he means it as she is dumb

[slow olive]

Its the haughty laughing

[fossil tendon]

Her laugh is kinda acidic

[slow olive]

Damn lace not catching any breaks huh

[fossil tendon]

Also this

I'm just gonna do it lazily and someone can correct me when I post a sc

[slow olive]

THK HK Vessels would be on the same levels tho coz they all were hatched at the same time i think

[frosty gate]

I love Caretaker by the way, the way he calls Hornet "Bellringer" in Spanish is hilarious because it sounds so despective

[slow olive]

Or we have no way of knowing who hatched first

Caretaker being cranky but then warming up to hornet in his own way was fun to see

Then act 3 happened

[fossil tendon]

Is this right?

[vestal swan]

GmSilk PK WL
| / |
String kids - weavers(Herra) |
| | |
🚫 Hornet Vessels
(Lace TK/THK
Phantom)

[stuck loom]

Anyone knows this person? This is such a good post

https://www.reddit.com/r/Silksong/comments/1nrr3wt/weaver_lore_and_potentially_fs_real_name_endgame/

[fossil tendon]

Silk had Herra who had Lace & Phantom?

[vestal swan]

Silk made them

There's just a space so I can add their names

[languid wraith]

Is the bell beast trapped in silk because it got a silk heart somehow and cant control the silk generation?

[edgy barn]

How did they translate it? Spanish is my native language but I played the game in english.

[fossil tendon]

Also kudos to the parents for naming their kids such fucking dope ass names

[frosty gate]

Lace is basically the trope of someone who didn't have a chance to grow up and just stayed childish

[fossil tendon]

If my kid was named Phantom I'd constantly be flexing that

[frosty gate]

I'm pretty sure it's not even her name

[frosty gate]

"Campanera"

[fossil tendon]

She's like uh
Thingy
The guy from Eternals

Anyhow back to the tree

[edgy barn]

Supongo que "Tocacampanas" era muy largo.

[frosty gate]

I hate this movie so much who was this

[fossil tendon]

Sprite, her form was locked in the shape of a child

Kinda like that one Batman villain

[frosty gate]

Too close to "Tocapelotas"

[vestal swan]

Not just her shape her mind, her existence is to be as a child forever

But without GMS maintaining her now she might start to age, unless her very existence is tied to that spell that's keeping her childlike

[fossil tendon]

I'm gonna do a load of the random bosses

What/who the fuck is the big torch guy in Wisp Thicket

[vestal swan]

Also hornet potentially adopting lace makes that her child which makes TK and THK Lace's non-binary Aunt uncles

[vestal swan]

It's not really a specific guy they were sacrificing bugs to these wisps to either summon or control them and they were worshiping it to try and make it stronger

[fossil tendon]

Wait where's my image

[frosty gate]

I don't think he means like her mind is literally that of a Child but rather that she is inmature because she has never "grown up"
Lace doesn't seem to behave like a child specifically, she's just chilldish. You can be childish and not be a child.

[vestal swan]

Caretaker says she was made with the mind of a child and the hunter journal confirms she's still a child at the end of the game

[frosty gate]

So Hornet is a Child

[vestal swan]

No?

If you mean Shakra hornet corrects her and she stops calling her a child

Lost lace still being called a child is literally the very end of the game

[fossil tendon]

Is this right?

[frosty gate]

I need TC to make an AMA because this conversation is imposible to have

[misty stirrup]

Lace being a forever child kinda goes against the main theme of the game

[spark valve]

Look of a child and a mind to match

[vestal swan]

No?

[misty stirrup]

it's like if the vessels were actually hollow

[vestal swan]

The theme of the game is not grow up and leave Neverland

[whole holly]

guys i decided i am not doing cursed ending

[hidden crater]

wait a minute since vog, kratt and huge flea count for the lost fleas, would seth count for this as well

[vestal swan]

Why did we need to know that

[frosty gate]

I'm not havin this conversation, I'm gonna get annoyed

[misty stirrup]

Parental expectation instilled onto a child is bad > Hollow becomes more than just his duty , so does Ghost as does Hornet. Lace would be stuck as the eternal role Silk had picked for her

[spark valve]

Silk-spun child possessed by the void

[vestal swan]

Lace is not a vessel

[spark valve]

hollow knight fans truly cannot read

[misty stirrup]

nobody said so

[fossil tendon]

What's wrong about my tree

Do the Burning Bugs not view FOTF as a deity?

[vestal swan]

Arrows on family trees point to descendants or creations, you have a religion and its followers on there

[slow olive]

Lmao this could be me in the future as well

[fossil tendon]

Would saying relationship tree be better?

[vestal swan]

Not really that's not how trees work as a graph

[fossil tendon]

Why isn't that how that works. There's a hierarchy here right

That's all I'm showing? Just like who is "above" and "below"

[whole holly]

i felt need to announce it, lore wise it is bad ending

[slow olive]

FOTF is more of a giant burning grave of some bug that became the epicenter of a sentient wisp

Or at least i think it is

[sinful nimbus]

Stage 1 of Lacenet Grief

[fossil tendon]

Hmmmm ok

[whole holly]

yeah, it is not just a god but totem, not higher being itself but nature of wisp aren't fully explained

[fossil tendon]

I will tentatively remove FOTf from the tree for now

[slow olive]

But the burning bugs do seem to worship FOTF

[spark valve]

since when is the first stage of grief illiteracy

[slow olive]

Once you defeat it the burning bugs keep setting themselves on fire

[frosty gate]

"This trick can only be done once"

[slow olive]

Dont try this at home

[fossil tendon]

What are the name of the two brothers that like

[slow olive]

The forebrothers?

[fossil tendon]

Do metal stuff in the hot place

[slow olive]

Signi and something

[fossil tendon]

Signi is a character in GOW Ragnarok I think

[slow olive]

Oh lmao

[fossil tendon]

Signis and Gron

[vestal swan]

Because that's not how trees work, that would more be like a pyramid or something
Trees are used to show relations like family

[fossil tendon]

Relationship Pyramid then

[slow olive]

I mean they can make their own tree

[fossil tendon]

Dude one of them is named Gron? He must be annoyed cuz that name sucks

[slow olive]

Wait really

[fossil tendon]

It's Ron with a G that is truly awful

It's all just a head canon but I think Gron is probably very annoyed about his number

[slow olive]

No wonder i couldn't remember that name lmao

[fossil tendon]

I say enemies because we did kinda kill both of them

[slow olive]

Lowkey thats starting to look like a rune

[fossil tendon]

True

[slow olive]

Why are there two knights on the right

[fossil tendon]

I just noticed that

I changed that to Vessel. Also is anyone like related to the brothers or no

[edgy barn]

Not as far as we know.

[slow olive]

The deep dock workers seem to be different bugs just in the same profession

meanwhile the judges seem to be related to each other

[edgy barn]

You could argue Forgedaughter might be but at that point you might as well say that all the deep dock workers are one big family, which is unlikely.

[fossil tendon]

"Judges"?

[slow olive]

The enemies in the blasted steps

[fossil tendon]

Oh those guys

[slow olive]

The ones with the shields

Theres a secret area near the bellway there where u can find their larvae forms

So im guessing the larvae, judges, and the last judge are related to each other

Like the flies of the slab

[fossil tendon]

?

[slow olive]

Wait let me check what the larvae are called

[fossil tendon]

Gonna go to the top

What's the relation between Grandmother Silk, Pale King and The White Lady?

Parent friends? Distant enemies?

[hardy linden]

just someone else?

[slow olive]

There's no direct relations between gms and pale king besides their category as pale beings

[hardy linden]

Also, was reading through the wiki (kinda off topic here) but according to the Mask Maker's dialogue, the Citadel is church and cage both

[slow olive]

The larvae are called squirrms btw

[fossil tendon]

Tyty

[quaint lily]

is wisp thicket connected to Grimm troupe with the whole fire spirit theme going on

[slow olive]

So the family tree (or circle) for them could just be three squares: squirrm, judges, and then the last judge

[slow olive]

Doesnt seem to have any direct connection besides both using fire

[hardy linden]

Also done by the Weavers to keep GMS asleep while they ruled lavishly

[frosty gate]

Yeah, we were talking about that earlier

[quaint lily]

yeah I thought it was pretty far fetched but wanted to throw it out there

[slow olive]

Grimm troupe seems to be using nightmare flames, while the burning bugs use flame wisps

[quaint lily]

mm ok I understand I thought there could be some similarity between FOTF and the Nightmare Heart but I was wrong

[fossil tendon]

Pyramid update

It's getting chaotic but that's whatever

WL & PK did birth Hornet right? Or was it PK and Herra, I always forget

[quaint lily]

pale king and herrah

WL and PK made the Vessels pretty much exclusively PK and Herrah had Hornet because Herrah would only be a dreamer if she could carry on her legacy with an offspring

[fossil tendon]

Ah gotcha

[quaint lily]

not completely sure if I’m right on this

[fossil tendon]

Are PK and WL married or just like

Exclusively parents

[quaint lily]

not quite sure

I’m pretty sure it was just so they could make the Vessels but idk

[fossil tendon]

Closer to creators then parents then

[quaint lily]

yeah

higher being nonsense yadda yadda

[fossil tendon]

It's a mess but it's a start lmao

[lilac monolith]

ya making a hornet family tree?

[fossil tendon]

Just a general tree

Well "pyramid relationship"

[edgy barn]

Kingsoul's description says that it represents the union between two higher beings.

[fossil tendon]

Gotta decode that lol

[lilac monolith]

how come dumb and dumber are on there, yet my boy fearful pilgrim is missing?

outrageous and scandalous

[fossil tendon]

I've no idea who you mean

Oh the brothers. There's a lot to do, I only started earlier

[lilac monolith]

well i wish you the best of luck

[fossil tendon]

I'm gonna take a break and not hog this chat so much lol. ciao

[whole holly]

guys is there any unique effect what becoming cursed while you are overdosed by plasmium?

[upper copper]

Sorry if you took this as rude but is it just me or Flick is just an amateur in fixing? The hornet statuette description describes it as “inexpertly but painstakingly crafted”. Also everything the bridge and statue he builds can be easily destroyed with 3 measly needle strikes

[edgy barn]

Pretty sure it would just reset you to normal as it is a cutscene,

[vestal swan]

Haven't tried but separately, Eva will consider you cursed and won't let you nearby if you have the life blood curse active similar to the baby parasite

[edgy barn]

He has different dialogue for both

[lilac monolith]

flick needs to be "flicked" off of the entrance to kings pass

[edgy barn]

Yeah Flick isn't all that skilled, but he atleast tries to help.

[upper copper]

I guess he is supposed to be the only fixer who is “better than nothing” in a world that has no fixers

[upper copper]

Why did I even write that

[edgy barn]

Esentially

If he didn't build the bridge or the sign, who would?

[foggy fractal]

me

[silk dirge]

menderbug easy clears both flick and those citadel repair cogfly guys

apparently if you break the silk dispensers in that one room a cogfly tries to fix it

it does a pretty shit job tho

[lilac monolith]

menderbug vs. fixer flick. battle of the century. this sunday 8pm universal time on the WWE channel

[silk dirge]

i dont think theyre even called cogflies but i dont remember their real name

[lilac monolith]

the citadel has british effeciency

[silk dirge]

these lil dudes https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Cogworker

basically cogflies but slightly different purpose

[lilac monolith]

cut them some slack, atleast they don't try to kill u, they just want to fix things

[silk dirge]

except they do try to kill you

[lilac monolith]

they don't unless u attack them

[gilded beacon]

How do the flies of The Slab know how to make Seals of Binding??

[lilac monolith]

they prob just got them from the citadel. humpty dumpty wardfly doesn't exactly strike me as a runic wizard

[upper copper]

How the heck did ||Lumble the “”””lucky””””|| die?

[lilac monolith]

amidst the realm collapsing, he was crushed to death by a multitude of boulders

[vestal swan]

Who the hell is that character

[lilac monolith]

atleast that's the explanation i got from grindle

[vestal swan]

Oh the old gambling Man

[upper copper]

Oh he says something about him?

[lilac monolith]

nope, but i assume that's the truth we'd get from a snitchfly like him

[silk dirge]

lumble was not lucky bro

thats the same room you fight lost garmond

he brought the worst fucking luck

[sinful nimbus]

🥀

[lilac monolith]

Lumble the "not so lucky bug afterall"

[upper copper]

Apparently his lucky title goes away after you beat him and get his final reward

[frosty gate]

How were the coral people called?

[silk dirge]

karak

[frosty gate]

Thanks

[silk dirge]

i wonder if team cherry originally wanted to call khann karak king khann and then realized what that abbreviated to and noped out

doesnt stop people here from making that mistake

[lilac monolith]

crust king sounds a bit off tho

[frosty gate]

Do you think the Skarr and the Karak are as old as Pharloom? Like, they were there before GMS

[twin ocean]

Does this imply hornet has no hope to save pharloom, i mean, why does she still desperately try to save it if she knows it's a lost cause?

[lilac monolith]

i think the karak were there before the weavers came to be
and the skarr, not quite sure, but karmelita probably began her reign after the weavers sealed gms or right before they left pharloom

[frosty gate]

I mean, Karmelita doesn't have to be the first Skarr, right?

[frosty gate]

She tries because it is her fault things ended that way so she will succeed or die in the process

[lilac monolith]

no but her song united the skarr and protected them for a while when gms began the haunting (as far as i know)

[lilac monolith]

she doesn't exactly state she knows of a great end, this moreso confirms to her she gotta lock in and not fuck up

[frosty gate]

I mean, yes, that's sure enough

That actually makes me wonder if her fight was During or prehaunting

[lilac monolith]

likely during cus her singing is so good it'd be wasted if it was just for entertainment

[frosty gate]

Oh and what about

The frogs

Groal and his Gang

The Groang

[lilac monolith]

they're just assholes and deserved what came to them

[lethal burrow]

What about them?

[whole marsh]

It doesn’t imply it’s a lost cause, just that the land is either doomed or there’s going go be a big shift in power (which is what ends up happening with GMS dethroned)

[frosty gate]

How old they've been there

[past cypress]

Before the citadel at the very least because we know it was a clean place once

[frosty gate]

Yeah that's for sure, but I wonder

[edgy barn]

I feel like the stilkin are old but Groal himself might not be, hence him not being one of the Old Hearts,

[frosty gate]

Oh yeah I agree with that, I just didn't remember the name of the Stilkin

[silk dirge]

i wonder with karmelita if a mortal bug can ascend to a higher form if they unite a lot of people in service to them

like not higher being but karmelita seems like shes lived for very long

[limpid summit]

Who knows

I mean technically TK and Hornet both ascend in specific circumstances

Like there’s nothing saying under the right circumstances it couldn’t happen

[silk dirge]

yeah but they were already part higher being

[limpid summit]

True

[silk dirge]

it seems you can ascend with like specific abilities

like you wouldnt be able to ascend if you cant focus or bind

[lilac monolith]

maybe the definition of a higher being is one who's deeply connected to soul. hence hornet's silk might just be rebranded soul, and the everbloom is a highly concentrated source of it

[lethal burrow]

Before the citadel did its business

[lilac monolith]

capitalism goes hard

[silk dirge]

for pale beings yeah

i feel like being a higher being has to mean being in control of some powerful element or smth like that

[edgy barn]

Looking at the map with the knowledge that the source of Karak's water was at coral tower, and the mention of a river in relation to them, it would make sense if the water was actually coming down from Mount Fay

[frosty gate]

I agree but we have no clue why it would've stopped

[edgy barn]

The only thing that occurs to me is that the weavers might have cut the water flow when they turned Mount Fay into a pseudo-weavenest.

[frosty gate]

The way things play out here is so weird in comparison to HK

For a timeline I mean

[edgy barn]

Yeah I have noticed.

[smoky haven]

so I beat lost lace, the twist in the ending was so good but like... When hornet binded gms to her to use superjump, did she forcefully bind her or did gms offer her strength

[edgy nebula]

gms offered it

[spark valve]

It was probably offered

[smoky haven]

okay thank you

that's nice of her

[frosty gate]

Because in HK you knew PK came in to an already stablished place and just said "Well this is mine now"
In SS we don't know if Silk was there or if she came into the play

[smoky haven]

so she did care about lace after all

[spark valve]

In a sort of sick toxic way sure

[lethal burrow]

What's the toxic way exactly

i'm still stuck on this people say grand silk is a bad parent, but she didn't do anything....

[smoky haven]

EXACTLY THAT'S THE POINT SHE DIDN'T CARE ABOUT HER OFFSPRING

[frosty gate]

Absent mother who created her daughter to be a sentinel and didn't really do anything to care for her while Lace literally wants a mom

[vestal swan]

She raised up weavers from lower bugs and lied to them about what they were
They rebelled and she made phantom
Phantom was defective or too weak or just not what she wanted so they got abandoned
She decided the solution was to make an unaging child that would live forever

[smoky haven]

I still have to absorb the fact the knight shows up nnnghh peak

[frosty gate]

I'm going to assume GMS was in Pharloom from the beggining

[spark valve]

She wasn’t

[vestal swan]

Nah I don't think so, her spreading her influence was implied to be the reason for at least one of the heart's regions falling (Verdania)
I think she showed up and took over but not in the peaceful way like PK

[frosty gate]

I'm trynna put up a timeline

[spark valve]

Hearts dialogue about power existing in Pharloom before gms means she wasn’t always there

[frosty gate]

Which one? I believe you, I just wanna see it

[vestal swan]

In dialogue with the green prince she says something about you were up against a pale being when talking about why the kingdom fell

[spark valve]

Pharloom was not born of that monarch, Old One. Power existed in these lands even before she bound them beneath her.
BH : Grnk. Seek the old hearts of our kingdom and the last successors to bear their strength.

[lethal burrow]

She seems to very much care though

[lethal burrow]

"absent mother" the Weavers literally imprisoned her. I don't think it's grandmother silk's fault.

Also, where are you getting that it was grandmother silk that appointed her to be a sentinel? I don't recall that being anywhere.

also it's fully possible the retrieval of the Weavers was to get silk for lace

[vestal swan]

You realize none of those are good things right

[lime dome]

Quick question, is there a deeper reason why in the cutscene for the 3rd act the left arm of gms is cut off, but in the void she clearly is first missing her right arm and in the end you can actually see both. But for the pale nails you can see that the left arm should be missing (based on the thumb)

[lethal burrow]

All we know is that the Weaver's felt lied to, but there's no inclination that there was any deceptive intent in grandmother silk calling the Weaver's divine children. She could've believed it for all we know.

also we don't know why she abandoned Phantom. I want to figure that out, but I haven't heard anything solid about it.

I also don't know how you can say. She decided to do much since both of the silk children began when grandmother ilk was not awake, so it's not easy to tell how much conscious agency she was putting into those as aspects

[vestal swan]

TC doesn't know how arms work

Look at THK

[lethal burrow]

why tho

[lime dome]

i thought that maybe she rearranged her arms when being void since shes left handed or something but i guess its just a mishap

[flat hearth]

This is the best explanation I've seen so far

[edgy barn]

btw GMS capturing weavers because she doesn't have enough silk to keep Lace alive is nonsense. In the WQ ending a single bind of GMS is enough to fully refill Hornet's reserves, and ahe proceeds to bind her several times over, increasing even her maximum silk capacity, GMS also had enough silk to mantain a massive cacoon in the void while simultanously haunting Pharloom, and even when she barely had enough silk left, she still had enough for Hornet to perform an empowered Silk Soar.

If all that is not enough for Lace, there's no way an 1/8 or 1/4 weaver would help.

[vestal swan]

That line of logic doesn't follow, she's going to get her hands on whatever she can

If she doesn't have enough silk she's going to get another source

[lethal burrow]

after the Weaver's left, the citadel started recycling it's silk aggressively, why would they do this If grandmother silk was a source of silk when she was asleep.

[sinful nimbus]

Why not

[lethal burrow]

it seems plausible to me that while she slumbers, she is unable to meaningfully produce silk, and only perhaps control it

[whole marsh]

Isn’t she literally the primordial source of all silk though? I don’t imagine supply is an issue with her

[sinful nimbus]

Grandmother Silk's output in addition to multiple Weaver's outputs is greater than her output alone

Obviously

[lethal burrow]

Then why was silk getting recycled?

[whole marsh]

Because she was locked up and the weavers were being stingy?

I guess that depends on timeline though, which I’m not clear on tbh

[sinful nimbus]

I mean she obviously can't create however much silk she needs whenever she wants or else she could survive in the Void indefinitely

[frosty gate]

You are right, there's no other way to read this

[vestal swan]

good cuz I can't remember shit specifically ever

[sinful nimbus]

Grnk 🗣️

[vestal swan]

Gunk?

[whole marsh]

For what it’s worth, she did just have the shit beat out of her before getting pulled into the Void. And the cocoon was made after being pulled in, so some void was already inside causing her issues.

[frosty gate]

Although i wonder why was even the case
"Hornet: You were mortal bugs, caught beneath a being pale... Devotion or destruction... these are the only fates my kind allow."

[vestal swan]

I'm pretty sure the cocoon got pulled down too

I don't think it was still in the cradle

[frosty gate]

They didn't even get anything from Verdania

[edgy barn]

What I mean is that there's no way it would make up the difference, and it would also mean Lace is going to die rather fast after SoTV since Hornet's silk output is clearly inferior to GMS's.

[whole marsh]

The cocoon disappears when you challenge her, then reappears in the void after she’s pulled in. It doesn’t even show in the cutscene that ends Act 2

[frosty gate]

They just wanted to fuck em up

[edgy barn]

They got the dancers I suppose,

[sinful nimbus]

What makes you say the former

And the latter isn't really relevant to GMS's actions

[frosty gate]

That was the other Prince's sacrifice to try and negotiate with them

[lethal burrow]

The other green prince stuff has odd indication though

The Green Prince is against the citadel.

His lover was turned cogwork so it's at least tied to the time of the architects, and the Citadel, judging by the location of the room. his lover even "gave his whole in desperate trade to see our own caves left safe"

but if the city that will became a thing to make grandmother silk asleep, then how could it be her fault that the Citadel is responsible for this?

[vestal swan]

GMS started it citadel finished it ig

[frosty gate]

Exactly my thoughts

[sinful nimbus]

Most fleshed out Silksong character

GMS is bad because she did uhhmmm something to her neighbours I won't tell you what though

[edgy barn]

It is relevant to the writing since it would be really stupid to have saving Lace be the main goal of Act 3 then have her die from silk defficiency shortly after.

[frosty gate]

Yeah surely she isn't bad for starting the Haunting, destroying the ecosystem of Bilewater and forcing everyone to either devote or be destroyed

[sinful nimbus]

Not really and also Phantom survived a long time without GMS's aid

[lethal burrow]

it indicates that at least the old kingdoms were conquered by her, and I'm willing to take that as true, but beyond that, I'm not sure what she actually did like the Weavers seem like the big assholes.

[sinful nimbus]

She also apparently sucked before the haunting too

Meet potential villain

[languid plaza]

So one of the green princes willingly gave themself to the citadel as a deal to protect their home?

[vestal swan]

Yeah but it meant nothing in the long run

[smoky haven]

WHY isn't hornet's flower as delicate as zemer's

[whole marsh]

I’m 99% sure that’s a gameplay thing tbh

[vestal swan]

TK was running around with it in one hand hornet has a tool pouch

[smoky haven]

guess they gave zem'er the temu version ;-;

[vestal swan]

TK's tool pouch is inside of its mouth

If TK ate the flower it would go off

[smoky haven]

OHH

[olive umbra]

I mean every time you get a power up it says consumed so it makes sense

[edgy barn]

But that just brings us back to the old point. If Phantom can survive so long without being fed, how is Lace so silk-hungry that GMS's output can't sustain her on its own?

[frosty gate]

Who do you think fell first, the Karak or the Stilkin?

[barren beacon]

May be because Hornet never knew about It's durability, so Due to coming from her mind, the flower is "Stronger".
Theory I stole from here

[vestal swan]

Stilkin seem like a recent group tbh

[smoky haven]

that makes sense too

[vestal swan]

It's not like hornet made that flower she pulled a physical object out of a memory

[whole marsh]

Either:

1. she’s feeing off of silk runoff from the Exhaust Organ

2. She’s not as dependent as Lace, and Lace’s high silk requirement was a built in flaw to keep her in check (and probably made her stronger)

[frosty gate]

I mean, they were there before the Citadel fucked em up

[barren beacon]

Given by WL iirc

Would it be one of the plenty of random ass flowers Ze'mer has?

[frosty gate]

We just don't know if its Citadel GMS, Citadel Weavers or Citadel Conductors

I should probably start with that

[whole marsh]

It was probably given to her by Ze’mer. She’s foreign and isn’t it stated the flowers grew outside of Hallownest?

[barren beacon]

Yes, it is. And?

[sinful nimbus]

By the time the game occurs she's sleeping and also using her silk to haunt the kingdom

[edgy stone]

We know the flowers arent native to the white lady, it mightve been a gift she held on from to by zemer

[barren beacon]

Ze'mer basically carried all of Act 3 whilst being dead

Does hallowscribble have SS info yet?

[edgy stone]

But in hollow knight she does refuse it saying its power is too dangerous to keep close to onself, but this might only be talking to vessels holding onto it

[whole marsh]

And that’s how WL got her flower…

[edgy stone]

Due to its nature of repelling void it is dangerous to them and only them

[barren beacon]

This is probably true

I'd guess Ze'mer might have tried giving a Flower to THK, and of course, found out that the flowers repell void

Did Ze'mer even knew the flowers did that? Or how did Hornet and WL find out about it

[edgy stone]

Why didnt the pale king just drop all of zemers collection into the void to fuck over the shades

[olive umbra]

I think the flowers have limits

[barren beacon]

I mean, Ze'mer probably would not have liked that. Ze'mer seems to care about the flowers

[edgy stone]

I think white lady and the pale king just know stuff no one else is going to be able to, mainly due to pks foresight

[edgy barn]

If she doesn't have enough silk to keep Lace alive because of the haunting, why did she start it in the first place? GMS cares more about Lace than about the Kingdom. It would make more sense if she was collecting Weavers because Lace is so silk intensive that GMS is left with not much more silk, but we know that's not the case either because she's haunting everything from random pilgrims to the skarr to chef lugoli.

[sinful nimbus]

The haunting is needed to get her awake

And maintain control of the kingdom

She is using her silk for the haunting and gathering weavers so she can have more silk output for Lace its not that complex

[barren beacon]

May be because Phantom is simply far more frail, in exchange for being able to "Live" longer without silk?

[edgy stone]

It might be that the silk used in haunting is retrievalable and silk can consume it again while the silk lace uses is fully consumed by lace

So silk cannot use her own silk on her and needs alternative sources

[frosty gate]

Is this readable? Probably not on mobile

[vestal swan]

I don't think they made phantom with the intention of upkeeping them with silk and keeping them young either. Phantom was 2.0 on the silk created children, lace was 3.0 and meant to stay a child forever

[sinful nimbus]

I mean yeah much of the silk is already in the bugs

Pharloom's bugs are "easy prey" for her

[vestal swan]

🚬

[sinful nimbus]

[frosty gate]

If you click the image

It gets big

[vestal swan]

Doesn't really help actually

[frosty gate]

It doesnt? Hell, it does in my monitor

[edgy stone]

Phantom mightve been so weak when she was born that using silk on her is pointless

[vestal swan]

I have to zoom all the way into the middle to read what one of them says

[edgy stone]

Unless lace and phantom can be empowered by silk

Im going on the basis that its purely upkeep for them to keep their forms

[frosty gate]

Whatever, point is
Pharloom - - - The Citadel (GMS Era) - - - Citadel (Weaver Era) - - - Citadel (Conductor Era) - - - Citadel (The Haunting

[smoky haven]

do we know why widow has those needles stuck into her or?

[frosty gate]

I should probably make it closer to each other

[edgy stone]

Chanches are they're from other weavers due to her dedication to silk

[smoky haven]

that's heartbreaking omg

[edgy stone]

Cant help silk if you arent able to produce silk or use spells

[sinful nimbus]

Deserved

[edgy barn]

Well the few NPC that speak about the weavers do mention that they have been gone for a long time.

[sinful nimbus]

Blud is worshipping the weakest higher being 🥀

[frosty gate]

Yeah but if none can't read it it doesn't really help

[vestal swan]

Actually could widow be from the most recent version of The citadel, and also possibly The runaway Weaver from hollow Knight, or does one of those rune tablets suggest they are way older

[frosty gate]

Widow is implied to haven't gone out of Pharloom

[sinful nimbus]

She's an OG who never left Pharloom. She calls the Hallownest weavers "Those who dared to flee"

[vestal swan]

Ah

So she would be looking at the ones that came back like Thanos in end game

[edgy stone]

Also when we have the flashback of the weaver playing after widows fight thats probably her

[frosty gate]

So yeah, from the first Weavers

[edgy stone]

Which that can take place in 2 different times methinks

[frosty gate]

I wonder how many GMS made

[edgy stone]

Either its her being forced to play for silk when silk was up and at it

[vestal swan]

Apparently the first batch was 12? I don't know anything else than that

[languid plaza]

I’m kinda confused on who built the citadel & why, did the weavers build it to keep gms asleep?

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[edgy stone]

Or its when silk was encaged but before the citadel was made so the weavers were forced to play music to keep her asleep

[vestal swan]

But given I don't think they all ran to the same place when they fled I'm going to say a few dozen at least

Because hollownest had a lot

[edgy stone]

If it is this one it implies the cry that silk makes is what made widow betray the other weavers and help her

[vestal swan]

Rought guess at least 60

[frosty gate]

I'm not sure, I think Silk just had the Weavers manage it but she was "The true ruler"

Then they made GMS sleep with the city

[edgy barn]

I don't think this is likely because
1- It ends with the phrase "For her light eternal our song sustains"
2- It is Widow's memory.

[frosty gate]

And after not finding a way to kill her, they said "Ok, let's just leave" and left that issue to the Conductors

[vestal swan]

I can't believe not one of them thought about tossing her into the volcano

It sounds really stupid but they actually had a volcano available

come on

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

Only Higher Being where that would plausibly work

[vestal swan]

I mean maybe little pk too

[frosty gate]

I mean, how would you move her

[vestal swan]

Probably not a big wyrm

[sinful nimbus]

Blocked

[sinful nimbus]

Soul portals are a thing now because of course they are

[frosty gate]

That was made by the Snails which were probably not dealing with the Weavers

Also can we talk about the bastards

[vestal swan]

I think that was more of a void portal, summoned by a mass of soul. But it's not like soul teleportation is new TBH

[sinful nimbus]

Why are we dissing snails

[vestal swan]

But personally I would have grabbed a flute and made her dance down into the lava like I was the pied piper

[frosty gate]

They've been there for A WHILE

[edgy stone]

Couldve just made one of those big tps found in atla

[edgy barn]

First Sinner can move a bunch of needles using Silk so I can imagine enough weavers being able to move GMS.

[vestal swan]

They didn't believe they could do it themself until conductor agrees with hornet and agrees that she's probably enough to get it done

[smoky haven]

chapel maid my shayla...

[vestal swan]

Not conductor what is he

Caretaker

[frosty gate]

And never did they think to say "Yo weavers I can help you with your problem"

Or even Lace

[vestal swan]

I'm pretty sure the Weaver's new that they were going to try and use void and would have told them to fuck off lol

[edgy stone]

The snails wouldve probably killed the weavers

[lethal burrow]

karak were the last of the old kingdoms to fall so it said. the stilkin weren't conquered through military or anything it's just that their home got destroyed by the waste so it's a different situation

[hazy iron]

The weavers probably couldn’t tell anyone anyway

[frosty gate]

Fair

[hazy iron]

Else gms finds out

[sinful nimbus]

Smartest weaver:

[edgy stone]

The snails seemed to be really evil in the past

They chilled out at some point but they were psychopathic

[hazy iron]

Still are

[sinful nimbus]

Snail Shaman plan was solid

[frosty gate]

Not the last, but the last of the two i mentioned, the Skarr were still going strong

[edgy barn]

Lace would have killed the caretaker without listening.

[vestal swan]

I'm just picturing a weaver slam the door shut in a shaman's face like they're a door to door salesman

[sinful nimbus]

If Lace didn't ruin it the plan would've worked

[edgy stone]

Non zero percent chance the snails also killed weavers for their experiments

[vestal swan]

Would you like to hear about our Lord and savior the void

[upper copper]

What the heck is the point of weavenest (bilewater)? Is there anything important in lore?

[edgy stone]

I feel like snails just cant get along with other species that use soul

[edgy barn]

They produced tools in there

[frosty gate]

How long have Pilgrims sought to come up to the citadel by the way? Was that just a cultural thing?

[vestal swan]

Well it's not a compulsion by The haunting because some of them arrive unhaunted and we see them get attached to the strings

[edgy stone]

Either the snails are gonna kill them for it or the other bugs are gonna kill the snails for their super weird shell spiral magic

[sinful nimbus]

Basically as long as the Citadel has been a thing

Weavers were the ones who set up the entire system

[frosty gate]

I cant tell if they have Silk inside or not

[vestal swan]

Spiral magic that's one other anime thing

[vestal swan]

Allegedly they have it in their bloodlines somehow

[edgy stone]

Its not gurren lagann unfortunately

[vestal swan]

So somewhere just outside of the kingdom is a settlement of what become pilgrims and they go back to the kingdom to do a pilgrimage for religious reasons

[vestal swan]

I killed GMS with a drill so yes it is

[edgy stone]

Its literally just microplastics

[vestal swan]

Why do people keep saying microplastics you don't pass down microplastics

[edgy stone]

Kids are now born with microplastics and its the same principle

[vestal swan]

What

[edgy stone]

Saw a kid spit out a whole water bottle right after he was born

Was awful

[vestal swan]

Was he a nursing shark

[frosty gate]

That's insane
I mean i thought GMS just took them forcefully, she can do that, Hornet just said that if they have silk is easier, not imposible

[vestal swan]

This weird pilgrimage settlement exist somewhere and I know I'm not crazy about this weird inherited silk line

It is insane but it exists I think

[hazy iron]

It’s said in game too

[vestal swan]

Maybe it's a caretaker line

I cannot remember

[frosty gate]

I mean I believe it, it's just sad

[edgy barn]

Why are all pilgrims not equally vulnerable to the haunting if they all have silk?

[hazy iron]

Something about them stuffing silk into their shells and then the generations after being born with it already there

[hazy iron]

Yeah I think it was caretaker

[edgy stone]

I love all of the important lore coming for caretaker

[vestal swan]

He's the only character there not eating up the false history that everybody's been spewing

He's also old as shit

[edgy stone]

Apparently hornet feels a biological need to rule

Shes just strong enough to resist it

[hazy iron]

Wyrm bullshit

[edgy barn]

How are there un-haunted pilgrims? Pebb and Pilby both start at bone bottom, but one doesn't past the marrow before being Haunted while the other reaches Pilgrim's Rest. Why?

[vestal swan]

That could be wyrm instincts or maybe part of the curse, maybe hornet killing GMS just resurrects the GMS

[frosty gate]

Willpower maybe? It worked with Rad

[hazy iron]

Either they didn’t have enough silk in them or just got very very lucky

[edgy stone]

Most unhaunted pilgrims we see dont move in groups

[hazy iron]

There’s very few characters who make it compared to the many more haunted pilgrims

[whole marsh]

Who was 1.0?

[vestal swan]

Weavers

[edgy stone]

Pablo

[frosty gate]

Jubilana is from here probably, she definitely has Silk, so does everyone in Bellhart. Imagine Hornet is just sleeping and suddenly she wakes up to a Horde of the residents of bellhart trying to kill her

If I was silk i'd kill her that way

[edgy stone]

They should make hollow knight pablo but just rip off rain worlds story

Make pablo a genetic creation by a super computer

[vestal swan]

They can barely manage batteries and normal computers

They still have servers that take up half the room

[edgy stone]

Steel city is going to be modern day nea york

[sinful nimbus]

The cool thing about Silksong is I can scratch the itch of exploring a giant industrial megastructure central to the region with extreme environmental effects without having to play Slop World

[edgy stone]

Make it super advanced iut of anywhere else

I do hope we get to explore the steel city as like a huge area

[sinful nimbus]

Like a Citadel sized DLC

[edgy stone]

There's a few ways for it to appear

[sinful nimbus]

That'd be pretty good

[foggy fractal]

🙏 i wish dawg

[vestal swan]

I'm placing my bet on a moving/fying city

[sinful nimbus]

Castle in the Sky ripoff

[vestal swan]

Steelwyrm

[sinful nimbus]

Don't even bother trying to top Ghibli you can't

[edgy nebula]

steels moving castle

[edgy stone]

One: it exists in the dream of something like the white palace
2: doors can transport you to it. It exists in one location but can be accessed from any kingdom with these doors
3: it can be summoned and moves throughout

[vestal swan]

Also that weird reforming metal has me wondering if you can beat the shit out of Zi and Jinn and they'll just reform

[edgy stone]

I like the idea of steel beings have teleportation maguc

And thats why weve seen them in both kingdoms

[vestal swan]

Even crazier prediction, the steel Master is an alien and they are the reason the "surface" doesn't have stars or a sky, the planet is covered in a megastructure

[edgy stone]

Would be pretty cool honestly but that'd be such an insane lore drop for a dlc

[vestal swan]

We still need questions answered and I don't think they're going to make a third game in this universe

[sinful nimbus]

Thank god

I don't want HK to take place on a planet tbh

Underground caverns all the way

[whole holly]

i would really like Plasmium and i want Act 4 to be revilatized Pharloom with Plasmium but slowly it takes over Pharloom and we have to save it yet again but this time with different concepts, like parasite absorbing all Plasmium sources and stuff like that, not fight second radiance

[foggy fractal]

🗣️ welcome to the underground

[edgy stone]

We need a third game thats 240% the size of silksong

[whole holly]

i really hope so, Grimm knight would challenge genre and make exploring way better

[vestal swan]

What

[whole holly]

but drastically different, i want Grimm to visit once dead kingdom that has new inhabitants

[whole holly]

i don't know what to call Grimmchild when they most likely aren't child or Troupe master, knight would make some sense

[edgy stone]

Make a game where its just the knight making his way to hornet all the way from the void in hk

It takes 85 hours to accomplish

[whole holly]

that could just be DLC lol

[vestal swan]

Grimkidd

[graceful basin]

Does GMS resisting the void for so long mean that

1. GMS is extremely strong, even for a higher being
2. The Void is weaker than previously thought
   or
3. Motherhood instincts are busted
   ?

[edgy stone]

Death the kidd?

[vestal swan]

3

[graceful basin]

damn

[sinful nimbus]

A deity surviving so long in the void isn't that strange

Radiance only died so fast because she was up against unified void

What GMS is going up against is ununified weak baby loser void

[vestal swan]

Ehhhh she got tossed straight in the lake, I think she's surviving because she like reformed the cocoon down there

And obviously trying to protect her kid

Second wind and all that

[edgy stone]

Yeah it's probably just due to her constantly spamming soul shit

Pale king couldve survived too no doubt

Just needed to use the pale kamehameha

[vestal swan]

PK was a light and he was bright as fuck he couldn't be touched

[edgy stone]

The voids one weakness

Aura

[vestal swan]

It's not really a strength check with him he was too hard to look at

[edgy stone]

It probably helped honestly, no one could see his disgusting form

Big believer of pale king ugly theory

[vestal swan]

Speaking of hype moments and aura, phantoms was insane. She was putting out spiritual pressure like it was a fucking anime fight

[edgy stone]

She has probably the best voice in game too

[vestal swan]

All she was doing was slamming the floor with a pin but she had an AOE that was five times bigger than her

[foggy fractal]

speaking of her slamming the floor
is it just me or is the sound effects in this game way better than the first game
tbf I haven't seen or played any hk in a while so no idea how good it was in that game

[vestal swan]

Way better

[edgy stone]

Yeah they went out and recorded it this time

Hollow knight sound effects were sounds ari made

[barren beacon]

Could hornet and lace be considered family?

[edgy stone]

Technically lace is hornets aunt

As lace would be sisters to the weavers

[smoky haven]

gms is a pale being, aren't pale beings stronger than regular higher beings by default?

[foggy fractal]

if you believe that the Weavers are GMS daughters than yes Lace is Hornet's aunt basically

though GMS evolved pharlids into weavers she isn't biologically related to them in real life terms, and there's First Sinner who said that GMS lied to the Weavers about being daughters and divine, so it just depends on how you look at it

[barren beacon]

Is Herrah one of the Original Weaver's GMS's made?

[vestal swan]

Seems like it

[graceful basin]

Neither lace nor the weavers were biologically created by GMS. And if you count Lace as being related to GMS with blood-ties, then Hornet would still be unrelated since the weavers were just souped-up pharlids

[vestal swan]

Calling hornet a half would imply that her mother was a full weaver

[edgy stone]

So where is the 12 weaver thing coming from?

[dusky bay]

If you never kill moorwing
Does the meat in the festival stays the same or is it smaller or non existent

[edgy stone]

I did not see anything mentioning it in game

[barren beacon]

But GMS is still their mother, no? Would it be Wrong If I decide to just call them Family?

[smoky haven]

NO WAIT

[vestal swan]

Nobody is blood related to GMS but in her weird created family the weavers and the silk girls are daughters and hornet and the other weaverspawn are granddaughters

[dusky bay]

They can
Just takes a shit ton of pain
Herrah is a weaver and gave birth to hornet

[graceful basin]

Isn't a major plot point of Silksong that the weavers weren't GMS's daughters? Y'know, the whole rebellion and apostasy andw hatnot

[edgy stone]

Its adoption wise, they're family in name

[smoky haven]

but they can't like... birth pure 100% weaver offspring

[foggy fractal]

yep, unless you wanna say Herrah's a child of two weavers which we have no reason to believe is the case

[dusky bay]

@smoky haven

[smoky haven]

YES I GET IT

[barren beacon]

Alright cool, I can headcanon Lace and Hornet being Family now. Thanks

[vestal swan]

They're all girls so seemingly no

[foggy fractal]

yep

[edgy stone]

@vestal swan you mentioned something about this earlier?

[smoky haven]

why would they make eva if they could

[dusky bay]

Al gms's kids are female
Idk why 😭

She hates men...

[smoky haven]

misandrist diva

[vestal swan]

I think it's one of the tablets for sinner or one of those rune harps, it says first of first 12 or something

And it refers to another one of them as one of the 12 I think

[edgy stone]

Weird totally missed it

[foggy fractal]

we're not sure if Weavers can have children who are partially weaver and male yet
but all pure weavers are female

[edgy stone]

First sinner does seem to exist as one of the first ever made thats for sure

If not the genuine first as seen by the fact her creation was the most fucked up

Got a hole in the head

[silk dirge]

i hope if we get a dlc where we go to another kingdom we maybe meet another part weaver

[edgy stone]

Hornet should keep up the gag of killing every weaver she sees

[foggy fractal]

and binding their power to herself

[smoky haven]

okay so I'm still not sure but like widow was punished by other weavers for remaining faithful to glamma silk right?

[misty stirrup]

yes

[smoky haven]

okay.

[misty stirrup]

it goes like this Pharloom old hearts > Silk arrives > Silk makes weavers > Weavers rebel, loyal weavers presumably dealt with > Citadel built , weavers new gods of religion > Conductors take power after weavers flee > Haunting

[languid plaza]

From what I’ve gathered the citadel was made by the weavers & then they put gms to sleep

Then they dipped

[silk dirge]

she didnt kill herrah what a fraud

[smoky haven]

fraudet

[languid plaza]

Herrah is the least weaver weaver ever

[silk dirge]

why didnt the knight bind herrah to get a cool new silk ability is it stupid or something

[languid plaza]

Herrah was just a chill mom who wanted her daughter to experience life without the expectation of destroying an evil monarch

[plain cloud]

It was just her dream. Not her silk

[smoky haven]

right?

[plain cloud]

Also, the Knight has no shit to do with silk. The void inside of him would probably shred it anywya

He can use raw soul, because the void just eat that stuff.
But silk? That something different.

[smoky haven]

who sadly had to become a dreamer ;-;

[misty stirrup]

it can handle soul just fine, it could use silk in theory

[languid plaza]

She saw what a being of power & the will to control others could do before, she didn’t want that for hollownest

[plain cloud]

Well, no. Soul is like... Throwing rocks. very, very big rocks.
Fireball, Crash course, Screams...

Silk is something used to create complex spells, it cannot just be... thrown around, expecting it to do somethings

Look at the runes used to trap Grandmother Silk. Ardent Runes. Those were worked on for decades for them to finally be able to seal her.

[languid plaza]

Silk must be made & then weaved or formed into what you want it to do, not all bugs have silk

[smoky haven]

actually is gms stupid why did she make weavers power-hungry by default

[languid plaza]

The knight can’t even generate silk

[languid plaza]

She wanted her children made in her image

[plain cloud]

And if he got his hands on some... He wouldnt know what to do with it.
Maybe pogo of it,

[smoky haven]

look where THAT got her

[languid plaza]

Lmao

Gms full power vs radiance who wins

I’m going gms

[smoky haven]

gms

[misty stirrup]

gms didn't get to do much lmao

she really only managed to beat Khan

[smoky haven]

which is funny considering my nickname

but pale beings are stronger than regular higher beings and stuff

[misty stirrup]

the others the citadel picked up her slack

[sinful nimbus]

What makes you say that

[hidden crater]

The literal sun vs old lady

[plain cloud]

No! They were spiders at first. Silk elevated them, told them they were divine etc...
When the First Sinner discovered they were just bugs elevated, they felt betrayed and seeked revenge.
They kept some of that "wild" aspect though, and refused to stay under control forever.

[languid plaza]

Yeah? She evolved the pharlids into her image, her children

[smoky haven]

idk I zont remember I just have that info in my head is it wrong

[plain cloud]

If we are talking about Pure Radiance... Like, full power moth, god of lamps, GMS would be crushed

[languid plaza]

The sun vs the concept of Eldritch power

[sinful nimbus]

Well I don't remember anything saying pale beings are stronger than normal

[smoky haven]

sun vs some big ass spindle

[hidden crater]

Atomic explosive vs dying ant

[smoky haven]

wait lemme research

[sinful nimbus]

Radiance's nature as a dream entity makes her a lot more resilient than GMS

[plain cloud]

L A M P able to eat you in your sleep. Meanwhile, big spider.

[viscid ridge]

Lmao its probably not the case, but i think its funny ti share it anyway. So when we first meet her, Shakra introduces herself as "Shakra, Weilding Rings". So if we assume her tribe gives them titles based on the weapons they choose, her master probably has the the title "Weilding Balls" 🤣🤣

[smoky haven]

but gms survived the void for some time

[languid plaza]

I don’t think gms is a spider lol, I think she chose spiders as her descendants tho

[languid plaza]

Yeah I was about to say

[plain cloud]

They arent really her childrens, she jsut stuffed them with her silk, twisted their shells and gave them minds.

[sinful nimbus]

Radiance was going up against unified void, GMS was going up against ununified void

[languid plaza]

Radiance got bodied in like 4 hits of void & gms is chilling in the bottom of a void lake

[hidden crater]

Seth is that you

[sinful nimbus]

With Radiance's light pacifying/repelling void I'd wager she could also survive some time in The Abyss

[languid plaza]

Dude I’m aware 💀

[plain cloud]

After he lost his Vessel job, he decided to protect a flower

[languid plaza]

We know she can’t though because she was dragged into the void & killed

[smoky haven]

oh right

[hidden crater]

Big funky flower

[sinful nimbus]

Unified void yes

I'm talking about ununified void

[languid plaza]

Unun

[smoky haven]

why would the void ununify after the events of the first game though

[sinful nimbus]

Its probably a proximity thing

[languid plaza]

It’s implied that the unified void is attacking honey but the knight himself stops this from happening

Or at least that’s what I saw

[plain cloud]

GMS mostly survived because of her Will to protect her only real child, Lace.
And, GMS didnt survive, she literaly jsut made a big shell out of silk. She ripped her silk appart to keep it stable.
Look at how much silk is left on her body compared to when she felled.

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah she's in her death throes

[languid plaza]

Still lasted longer

[sinful nimbus]

Longer than who

[smoky haven]

so is it unified or not I'm confused

[sinful nimbus]

There is no other higher being who has ever been teleported into a lake of ununified void

[plain cloud]

Nope! Its actually the ununified void, tendrils and stuff, that attacked Hornet. Then, the Knigh, the Shade lrod AKA the unified part of the void, along with the Family, came in and saved ehr

[smoky haven]

I wanna see Unn in her prime

[languid plaza]

Ik who I’m putting my money on

[plain cloud]

Pure Radiance got shredded because there was literally the FUCKING GOD OF THE VOID RIPPING HER APPART
Meanwhile, while sealed inside the Hollow Knight, she casually fought off the void inside of him for AGES
It left her weaker, but still quite strong.

[hidden crater]

THAT IS NOT GRAND MOTHER SILK

[plain cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/gabe-lore-radiance-meme-fight-gif-4251736839848078984

[languid plaza]

Fat yellow ball

[languid plaza]

I couldn’t find a scary drawing of her so I settled

[plain cloud]

Dammit

Alright, got it

i wont say the number between 33 and 35

Anyway...

[plain cloud]

Big spider

WHICH GOT STUCK INSIDE A SILK BALL FOR AGES

[languid plaza]

Spiders regularly kill moths

https://tenor.com/view/spider-gaming-gif-24004057

[plain cloud]

Meanwhile, Radiance, stuck inside a pale being stuffed with void

https://tenor.com/view/radiance-hollow-knight-moth-god-the-radiance-gif-24788370

[languid plaza]

Lame

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-hollow-knight-grand-mother-silk-gif-13952615901513641049

[plain cloud]

Anyway, about the Abyss...

[plain cloud]

Damn

Thats rough

[languid plaza]

Radiance can’t even hold a cup

[plain cloud]

Also, she got her arm ripped off by Lace in a single hit

[languid plaza]

Radiance falling on the floor like a wet sponge

[plain cloud]

Jokes on you, she is far stronger lore wise than GMS

She didnt use a punny spider to create the Moths.
She literally made them out of dreams.