sk-lore

[lethal burrow]

anyway, why was Phantom abandoned?

lace doesn't seem to have a formal role within the citadel and yet Phantom seems to have an actual like societal job there she stationed they're taking care and managing the exhaust organ, that's what she's in charge of.

my current theory is that Phantom manifested while the Weavers were still around and so phantom sided with the Weaver's over grandmother, which is why grandmother silk doesn't like them because the Weavers and grandmother still have a bit of a not great relationship

[timber pond]

meh idk about lifeblood, But i can get behind "god" or a "Creator" making Pale beings in this "Land Serene"

[inner torrent]

But yes, probably it would keep to much from the first game

[lethal burrow]

Single creator gods are not very easy to make interesting so I would prefer they don't risk taking that route

[inner torrent]

Probably that's the point.
phantom has a job.
lace's don't so grand mother silk can have more time with her. What other thing can they do?

[timber pond]

Well, then the other option is that all The pale biengs are "Creator gods" IN a sort of "Pale court" if you will. Much akin To Greek Myth

And Void/Shades are Hades in some way

[lethal burrow]

The void and shades don't seem to be in charge of any under World

[inner torrent]

Hey that could work.
They create cities or descendance.

[random aspen]

probably very wrong

[lethal burrow]

Aside from like literal underworld in that it's down

[inner torrent]

What's this

[dire lynx]

What is this?

[lethal burrow]

Rephrase your your perspective confuses me

[random aspen]

strongest to weakest

[sacred heath]

what’s the bottom thing

[dire lynx]

PK>radiance

[random aspen]

the godseeker dudes

specifically the ones in that really hidden area

[dire lynx]

Unn>lace

[random aspen]

what does unn even do 😭

[timber pond]

(in case nobody got it<so sad this track never got used) https://open.spotify.com/track/28AC8LLnTiLbFeDDYrgUAr

[inner torrent]

Phantom has an important role, taking care of the organ and keeping mist protected so not all bugs can enter.

Lace's with more free time as for example we can sometimes find her just passing time with gleamflies would give them time to join, to speak, and to bond

[lethal burrow]

but phantom is said to be abandoned by grandmother silk is the point

[random aspen]

literally just put this in path of pain what were they doing

[dire lynx]

Create the mosskin and greenpath+queens gardens+fog canyon

[lethal burrow]

it's not that grandmother silk can't spend time with her. It's that she disowned her, that's what I'm trying to figure out the reason behind

[random aspen]

cool plants

[inner torrent]

He created all of the green zones of Hallownest (Greenpath, Queen's Garden, I think the Mushroom place too, and maybe fog canyon?) with just his dreams
But that leaved him almost dead so he is in a half sleep situation

[random aspen]

and jellyfish

[timber pond]

Im thinking it was for 5 Knights Bosses but they Were Dedicating more time to fleshing out hornet DLC (at the time lol)

[random aspen]

unn is a bbw

[lethal burrow]

They weren't a terrible person which puts them on a very high level compared to other higher beings

[inner torrent]

Big bum watercolor?

[heavy gyro]

They abandoned the mosskin

[dire lynx]

No she didnt

[inner torrent]

Unn never promised anything to mosskins.

[random aspen]

unn just doing whatever bruh

[lethal burrow]

No, she didn't

[heavy gyro]

Yeah but clearly the mosskin were calling for her and she didn't respond

[lethal burrow]

She's still calling to them in fact

[lethal burrow]

I think you've got it backwards. It's that she's calling to them and she's just too weak so that a lot of them can't hear her anymore.

[dire lynx]

She tried to save them, the mosskin were blinded by the radiance. You have it backwards

[inner torrent]

Like, I feel we forget that unn is in a terminal state, she is kinda going to die

[heavy gyro]

Yeah ur right nvm

[lethal burrow]

Maybe she passed all her godly power to someone else and so she's starting to weaken

[random aspen]

also i think lace surviving in the void is really impressive i think unn will die instantly

[inner torrent]

Maybe isma

[dire lynx]

Lace survived the void due to her nature and GMS's protection

[inner torrent]

But ismas similarities to Nyleth has make me thing if they are connected

[lethal burrow]

yeah and then unn weakend to a state that they changed colour and size and became nuu

[sacred heath]

I’ll believe it!

[inner torrent]

!!! Could sherma be the new form of the pale king?

[lethal burrow]

nuu.
new.

new unn!

[random aspen]

whos the strongest mortal bug though

[dire lynx]

Unns weakening is probably due to the radiance infecting all the plants in greenpath. After her death I believe unn can recover over time

[inner torrent]

Like right now or in the past? Imo it would be Carmelita, she was just broken asf

[lethal burrow]

Probably the ant queen if we're talking about like no amount of God in their blood

[random aspen]

anytime

[lethal burrow]

like who is the strongest 0% God?

probably ant queen

[inner torrent]

I mean you just need to exclude all pale beings and higher beings.

Would being influenced by a god affect? Because those are still mortals

[timber pond]

Just realized team Cherry refrenced this in hornets dialogue in act 3💀 https://open.spotify.com/album/3qbcMEDN44a6vdxm12FkSM

[random aspen]

is grimm a mortal then?

[timber pond]

This specifically https://open.spotify.com/track/3Pwmf3xVA8MV6h2isY6whx

[dire lynx]

Grimm was created by the nightmare heart

[lethal burrow]

What are we counting as mortal?

[random aspen]

ok then hes a higher being

[lethal burrow]

is hornet?

[random aspen]

no connection to any of the higher beings

[lethal burrow]

got it

[dire lynx]

He's in the same boat as phantom and lace

[random aspen]

yeah cus half pale king and she lives for a long time

[lethal burrow]

Anyways, what do we think the light coming down at the widow cut scene is

[random aspen]

every vessel is a higher being

[inner torrent]

So what would I change here.

shade lord
Queen of silk hornet
Absradiance
"prime" gms
Nkg
Pure Vessel
White lady
Lace
Phantom
Unn corpse
Abyss beast ig? We don't even know if he is higher at all
Father of Flame???

[dire lynx]

Gms

[random aspen]

i think absrad would beat hornet to a pulp

[steep ridge]

simultaneously did the soyjak point and booed when she said this

[heavy gyro]

Mr mushroom solos

[muted lantern]

the rapture

[inner torrent]

Hornet yes
But queen of silk hornet I doubt
She should be kinda similar to shade lord in power imo

[steep ridge]

grand mother silk telling the weavers to shut the fuck up

[random aspen]

honsetly dont think hornet isnt that strong after ss cus her biggest feat is killing lost lace and thats just lace with a fraction of shade lords powers meanwhile shade lod had to pull up on absrad just to take her down

[steep ridge]

(she hates music)

[muted lantern]

I need to make a list of shakra words and what i think they mean

[random aspen]

poshanka is some greeting i think

[inner torrent]

I feel like lost lace ending hornet could defeat pure vessel

[steep ridge]

probably?

[inner torrent]

And queen of silk hornet would basically be hornet after absorbing a goddess of a similar power to absrad.

[random aspen]

ohhhh youre talking about the ending when she absorbs the gms i thought you were just calling her that to glaze her

[dire lynx]

I would say
Shade lord
Pale king
Prime Radiance
Nightmare heart
Hornet in ending 1
Prime gms
White lady
Unn
Gods of rain and thunder

[heavy gyro]

Gms is nowhere close to absrad, absrad was attuned by the godseekers

[inner torrent]

Lol.
Someone didn't had achievements on

[random aspen]

yeah shes probably strong but the true ending is true for a reason

[inner torrent]

Gms not
But prime gms should be.
Normal gms and normal radiance are in similar states and have similar power

[inner torrent]

True

[steep ridge]

is this in terms of like

[sacred heath]

tbf we have no clue on the gods of rain and thunder so we can’t really rank em

[steep ridge]

strength, cause pale king honestly didn't seem that strong

[random aspen]

pale king is just rich and hot

[steep ridge]

as all good leaders should be

[inner torrent]

This, isn't the point of his change of form that he payed power for approachability?

[dire lynx]

Pale king includes wyrm

We are talking peak strength

[silver spire]

pale wyrm was a size of a freaking planet

bro would chomp up absrad

[random aspen]

bardoon no diffs

[steep ridge]

we don't know prime gms then

[inner torrent]

I feel like wyrms would probably beat most higher beings, maybe not the shade lord

[dire lynx]

Prime gms was beat by weavers. Not impressive

[steep ridge]

and we can't really extrapolate based on any information because all we have on prime gms is 2 cutscenes

[steep ridge]

radiance was sealed by moths

[dire lynx]

No

[random aspen]

hopefully dlc gives us more gms

[silver spire]

wrong

[steep ridge]

... yes?

[inner torrent]

I mean, an army of weavers+a whole citadel powered engine feels stronger than a single vessel imo

[lethal burrow]

ok... what does it mean?

[silver spire]

radiance was gradually forgotten due to lack of worship

[steep ridge]

isn't it like she was forgotten by the moths, thus sealed away

[dire lynx]

She transformed the pharlids into weavers using her silk

[silver spire]

sealed away implies that it was a conscious decision to make her lose power

[lethal burrow]

OK, but why is the light raining down when they're playing the harps though?

[inner torrent]

If something you could say moths "defeated her" not sealed her
Also technically we don't know if gms is really sealed in the caccoon or if it's a creation of her to like, protect herself strength herself or smth

[dire lynx]

She exists in the dream realm, the moths forgetting her would've killed her. She was sealed by the pale kings plan

[mighty jolt]

Any speculation as to why the key of the apostate is between bilewater and the putrified ducts?

[inner torrent]

I mean, it's kinda obvious isn't it?

[silver spire]

some prison bug tried to escape and got cooked

[inner torrent]

A prisoner escaped with it, got to bilewated/putrified ducts in an intent of "hiding from the citadel" but it died by its beasts

[steep ridge]

I guess I was thinking of this, remembered seeing it on the wiki one time

[inner torrent]

Developer like, by team cherry or wiki workers?

[steep ridge]

team cherry

[timber pond]

Jailer Got fucked by the leech above him? 😂

[inner torrent]

Oh, maybe it was from a different storyline of the game.
The game seemed to kinda change a lot of its story during the development

[timber pond]

Guess he had it on him for some reason

[dawn gyro]

the snail shamans are 100% void bcs when u obtain the everbloom they disappear leaving only their shells behind fr (this prolly has no benefitial meaning to the convo happening rn but I wanna put it out here)

[dire lynx]

Dev notes also called the dreamers "almost impossible bosses"

[inner torrent]

Gorb > Shade lord btw

[timber pond]

Technicaly not like,incorrect still?

[steep ridge]

it's really just... semantics

[dire lynx]

Stuff changes in development

[random aspen]

is there any theories on this dude

[silk dirge]

i just had a really cooking idea for my alternate silksong lore with conductors messing around with void

what if romino taught you the conductors melody

[random aspen]

i read one thats speculating this has to do with conductor romino

[steep ridge]

greeter for the citadel

[dawn gyro]

I speculate its a statue of a guy

[inner torrent]

The snail shaman tribe doesn't seem to be void beings by birth
But apparently their void obsession makes a lot of them join void and become partly or totally void

[silk dirge]

this could be a really cool parallel to monomon

[timber pond]

Last Remnant Of Pre Weaver Citadel because he says its "made of Humble Stone" Which is like, the oposite of what it is.

[dawn gyro]

like how enemies can get voided by the void strings? except much more effectively and without silk

[steep ridge]

wdym without silk

[dawn gyro]

without the void silk string things

[inner torrent]

Yep, and probably keeping some of their mind thanks to their mastery of soul

[timber pond]

Also does anyone have the Eva Dialogue Where she Comments on Lifeblood being Apocalyptic?

[dawn gyro]

I feel like soul and void are sort of parallels, like yin and yang even.
what if the everbloom is like part soul or amthn

[inner torrent]

Not really, but I remember it called it "Bad blood" or somethinf

[dawn gyro]

given the effects we can witness it seems to be infection 2

[inner torrent]

Everbloom being soul natured could make sense, it's light have been described as pale right?

[dawn gyro]

but with butterflies instead of moths

[dawn gyro]

yea, and the white palace has a buncha soul totems that are inf too

[dire lynx]

Come no closer! I sense the forbidden blood coursing through you, that which grows and reshapes the world in its own vulgar image.
Whether it was imbibed willingly or not, none shall be allowed into this chamber while so afflicted. Begone!

[inner torrent]

And also more physical than mental

[dawn gyro]

yeah I think xylotol being obsessed with it was just him bein a bit crazy

also makes more sense to why the pale king labelled it taboo

[inner torrent]

Could xylotol be an axolotl?

[dire lynx]

No

[dawn gyro]

nah prolly not

[steep ridge]

zylotol really is just discovered something in hoping it could save lives then gets brainwashed of that thing

[timber pond]

This makes me Think the Radiance just Injected Her Power Into Lifeblood to make it her own thing. Like "hey bro im borrowing this wether you like it or not" tpye shit

[random aspen]

can white lady be touched by void cus she has that everbloom shit

[dawn gyro]

nah I think of it as a sort of confirmatiopn bias

not the exact description of confirmation bias but smthn similar

[inner torrent]

Good point, does she produce it naturally? Or it's created by something else

[vestal swan]

She doesn't make flowers

[timber pond]

Probably why she has one. Unclear if she made it or its from somewhere else

[vestal swan]

The flower is from zemers homeland

She didn't make it

[random aspen]

wow regifter

[dawn gyro]

and when zemer became part of the pale court thats prolly how the white lady got her hands on one

and ig they grew some in the palace

[timber pond]

They Can be Grown Elsewhere as established by the traitor child grave. So not Strictly.

[inner torrent]

I mean, yeah.
But what if she is from that homeland?

[vestal swan]

Grown yes not created

[dire lynx]

Radiance and lifeblood infections may seem similar but are quite different. Lifeblood is based around physical warping where the infection begins in the mind and the orange pustules are a side effect

[vestal swan]

Pointless zemer gave her one obv

[inner torrent]

Oh she gave her that one? I thought it was a speculation, I don't remember red memory too well

I played it with a half-broken screen

[dawn gyro]

wait I have screenshots of red memory when I did it just today lemme find em

[steep ridge]

phenomenal

[vestal swan]

Zemers older
She refuses one from tk
So she already had one

[dire lynx]

The intention of lifeblood is to warp where radiance just wants to be remembered (with a side of vengeance)

[timber pond]

The Spread itself is similar however. Sure manifestation may be different, But Life Seeds and Light Seeds Are like , nearly the same kind of creature.

[inner torrent]

Lifeblood seems to not really need being remembered.
And could explain why the abyss beast was confined in dream world, as it's power is more linked to physical world, it only needs to keep spreading

[silk dirge]

why do i have physics homework to do i really want to try and think through a story where void is better integrated with like conductors and shit

[dire lynx]

Light seeds have a completely distinct origin from life seeds

[inner torrent]

Oh sure

[silk dirge]

i think writing crazy lore is like a hidden skill i have or some shit

[dire lynx]

Hunter journal on Light seed:
Strange air has been seeping down from above for years. Some of the air became liquid, and some of that liquid became flesh, and some of that flesh came to life. I don't know what to make of it

[steep ridge]

implement the physics into the story trust trust

[dawn gyro]

found the one where she yaps abt the flower in one line

all she calls it is the 'first light'

[silk dirge]

shoutouts to the lore idea i had for a terraria mod once that would probably never actually happen

[timber pond]

Yeah But What im saying is , The Spread of Radiances artifical infection is... an Artifical Knock off of life blood She applied her own rules too, thats why they have a similar type of spread, even though the inital manifestation is diffrent.

[silk dirge]

i had some really cool ideas but i was like yeah this is never happening my ass is never getting a dev team together and doing this as a singular person i would genuinely go insane

[steep ridge]

write it down regardless

[silk dirge]

sometimes it's just like that

[inner torrent]

With which our family (pale ones) is forever linked (soul)

[silk dirge]

i forgot most of it now

[steep ridge]

there's a david lynch quote about this...

[dire lynx]

Or both are simply similar, I don't see any reason to think they are related

[dawn gyro]

not to mention void is basically pure darkness, also a parallel to her calling it the first light

[silk dirge]

anyways i feel like i could cook lore with better integrated void

[steep ridge]

lifeblood was made by blue radiance obviously

[hazy iron]

do a toby fox and get a really weird fever dream

[silk dirge]

like now that i think about it not having romino teach you conductors melody is like the biggest missed opportunity ever 😭

[timber pond]

LifeBlood Also Has some kind of Creature lurking in the Dream realm, The difference is that its the OPOSITE of radiance ,Seemingly staying hidden and out of sight and slowly growing.

[inner torrent]

The trio of moths/flying insects gods of possessing bugs minds

Radiance
Grimm
lifeblue

[silk dirge]

this would be so cool

[steep ridge]

romino is potential man

[silk dirge]

i like ballador but this would be insane

[muted lantern]

List of shakraisms and what i think they mean based on context: Poshanka: warriors greeting

Gendaa: relief or exasperation, used in response to hornet saying she has a solution to the black thread.

Bakkalo: dismissal, replying to hornet complimenting her mapmaking skills, she uses it in response before saying it is a simple thing all in her tribe know.

Un-daak: expression of pain, maybe an expression of being impressed, but pain seems more likely given context, said after duel like this “Un-daak… well struck”

Gara Takana: expletive, surprise, concern. Used when hornet meets her while cursed.

Nu-Hakkata: expression of disagreement/praise, used to refute when hornet says she does not know if her master would be proud of her.

Okklu-Din: affirmation/agreement? Praise perhaps? It is used in response to a question hornet asks before praising said questions perceptiveness.

Bakelo: dissapointment/acceptance, used in response to hornet refusing duel.

Dondakku: Derision, used when complaining about the poor defenses of a settlement, or deriding her self for misjudging pilgrims. A curse word perhaps?

Hakk: warning/be wary used when before talking about the curse afflicting bellhart.

Yokkala: Agreement/awe, thoughtful maybe? This one im not so certain. used when agreeing with hornets claims about the citadel being likely impressive due to the technology of the docks.

Ka, va!: lighthearted mocking/derision? Used when calling hornet foolish for swimming in maggot water.

Yakkanesh!: definitely a warning, used when warning hornet about haunted pilgrims.

[dire lynx]

We don't know anything about the abyss creature. It may not even be a higher being

[timber pond]

Its not Exclussively an abyss Creature. It can be seen in godhome. It seems to be confined to the dream realm.

[inner torrent]

Yep, it could be more of an avatar like Grimm
Or a simple big beast like vengefly king

[steep ridge]

time to use this in my standard lexicon forever

[muted lantern]

thanks to the silksong text dump for being the only reason i did this in a timely manner

[inner torrent]

Abyss Beast is the name on files.

[muted lantern]

You guys get bonus points if you find the times she uses some of these lines in her voice acting, unless it's poshanka, we all know poshanka, but im pretty sure yakkanesh is used in shakras song!

[timber pond]

I know, Dosent mean its not in the Dream Realm. Lifeblood Core itself is questionable, because you see essence within it.

[dire lynx]

Its called the abyss creature in the game files. We see it in the physical world.

[steep ridge]

I think I heard her say ka va once, might've been something different that just sounded similar

[silk dirge]

what does lai lai lai mean

[steep ridge]

singing

[timber pond]

I dont think Its in the Physical world. The whole section Where you go to get lifeblood core Seems like a Half Lucid dream.

[muted lantern]

no textual usage seen, could just be a simple la la la kinda filler thing in singing

[silk dirge]

anyways someone should do that for other characters that do greetings in their own language

[dawn gyro]

GUYS lifeblood used to be a big thing in deepnest before

[silk dirge]

like fleas

[fathom hill]

yah

[silk dirge]

mamashka

[fathom hill]

yet Hornet didnt warn the guy nor nothing smh

[inner torrent]

Yeah, I think it would make sense if it was "Vanished to dream realm" but also "Behind the abyss walls" so it's in a dream that is also separated from the rest of dream world.
Basically whoever trapped it there, most likely pale king, didn't want it to go nowhere

[timber pond]

Weavers Snorting the blue liquid meth.😎

[inner torrent]

Not her business

[steep ridge]

not like he would be very receptive to the idea of his life's work being awful

[lapis creek]

i wonder how they got rid of it

in deepnest

[fathom hill]

Id guess

[steep ridge]

herrah used a lifeblood vacuum when she moved in

[dawn gyro]

kinda strange how the only lifeblood we see near deepnest tho is the mantis lords stash and the one nearby the spooky ghost bug guy, pale king must have had the cleanup crew WORKIN bcs theres no way the weavers didnt try to make a souirce for their own usage

[timber pond]

The Knight Freed it 💀

[lapis creek]

unless they didnt and it occurred after hk

[cedar storm]

why does the Second Sentinel and the Pinstress have the same charged up move?

[fathom hill]

But she does get into a lot of peoples business if it means help so like

[inner torrent]

With her caves she means just deepnest or all of Hallownest?

[steep ridge]

oh right there's the one lifeblood cocoon in the failed tramway, could be that

[muted lantern]

pinstresses are like nailmasters, so their technique was probably used in the programming of the sentinels

[inner torrent]

And another over that dream warrior fight

[steep ridge]

yeah yeah

[timber pond]

nah theres alot of it in the center of Deep nest next to Gallien

Like more than in other places

[fathom hill]

Id guess but not even a teeny tiny comment abt it, strange

[steep ridge]

forgot about galien ngl

[fathom hill]

Maybe it was for the reveal to be more impactful since in hk lifeblood is a net positive

[muted lantern]

If anyone needs the shakraisms list again i can repost it when asked, or if you can convince the mods to pin it, also if anyone has more additions or speculated meanings ping me with em so i can add it to the list

[lapis creek]

even the fraud doctor says hornet is ok when she overdoses

[steep ridge]

the fraud doctor that kills people

only didn't kill hornet because hornet is built different

[lethal burrow]

when did the weavers leave pharloom

[midnight reef]

Its not exactly clear

They helped form the citidel, in an effort to keep Grand Mother Silk asleep

and watched the roads to ensure plenty of pilgrims were avaliable to staff its choirs, and maintain the underworks

it seems like at some point they understood that they were not truely divine, starting with the first sinner, before spreading to the other weavers causing many to flee

[steep ridge]

flea

[midnight reef]

Herrah and the Weavers we find in Hollow Knight seem to just be one group of them

[steep ridge]

herrah is definitely a special weaver cause why does she look so different

[midnight reef]

the big question that I have is when the horrors of the Whiteward happened

were the weavers involved in that? or was it just the bugs of the Citidel trying to replicate what the Weavers had?

[steep ridge]

after the weavers left and obviously before the haunting

[midnight reef]

thats what I was thinking

The Weavers have some form of curse that while not entirely preventing them from having children, does make it nearly impossible

so I was thinking that Herrah was just elevated from another form of spider

[brisk thunder]

High chance that Weavers were involved, as others didn't have same level of technology as the Weavers

[midnight reef]

but Pharloom only really has the Pharlids, nothing resembling the Devoutes and Herrah

[midnight reef]

dont underestimate the bugs of Pharloom, they're very capable

[brisk thunder]

Those little cat-like spider with clothes...?

[steep ridge]

the drapemites

[midnight reef]

The Weavers might of helped design and build the original architects, but the architects then went to build things like 4th Chorus

and you also have bugs like Yaraby screwing about in the internals of other bugs

[brisk thunder]

Architect designs were more robot-like

Weaver designs were more 'alien'-like

[muted lantern]

do yall think the shakraisms doc should contain the full quotes in which the words are used or are my short summaries sufficient?

[steep ridge]

probably the full quotes

[muted lantern]

should i include the context surrounding? like hornet lines shes responding to and the location the dialogue occurs?

all shouldn't be hard to find considering i can keyword search the instances of each word being used

[steep ridge]

eh maybe?

if it helps with the context of the phrase

but I doubt it

[muted lantern]

maybe on a case by case basis

[steep ridge]

yeah

[muted lantern]

shakra is so funny to me, on first meeting with hornet she compares her to a newborn, then when corrected continues to call her child wielding needle, i wonder if she doesnt believe hornet or is just teasing her lol

[steep ridge]

she hates short people

[muted lantern]

to be fair she is from a tribe of very tall amazonians as far as we can tell, and we already know hornet has chronic babyface

[steep ridge]

it's those pale king genes

[muted lantern]

yeah ghost literally looks like a newborn the whole game lol

[steep ridge]

pale king had like a billion children and only one ended up looking like an adult

all the others stayed baby

[muted lantern]

pk had to inject steroids into his favorite child

[steep ridge]

I mean technically broken vessel was a bit bigger than the knight/other vessels but

they were just about the same height as hornet

so slightly less baby

[muted lantern]

it seems like training grew thk, and broken vessel uses nailmasters arts, so maybe that grew them? but why ghost doesnt who knows, maybe they didn't train long enough

their entire body is like a muscle that grows with training i guess

[steep ridge]

broken vessel doesn't use nailmaster arts?

are you talking about the dash attack, that doesn't feel like the same thing

[muted lantern]

they use dash slash and slys overhead

[muted lantern]

their dash attack looks a lot like dash slash

[steep ridge]

I mean

it's a dash slash, but not Dash Slash

[muted lantern]

theres also the sly move

[steep ridge]

which one

[muted lantern]

it shares slys repeated overhead swing iirc

[steep ridge]

wait a second need to go through the sly fight in my head to double check

they share the slam

sly has the overhead

not broken vessel

wait you mean the

wild swinging?

not really technique that's just a crazy swing

anyways silksong lore

[edgy nebula]

it is a technique

random bullshit go!

[steep ridge]

no that's architect crest (moon knight build)

[muted lantern]

i mean its one of slys main moves, and hes a nailsage, i think he probably is doing more than just amatuer flailing

[steep ridge]

talking about broken vessel

[muted lantern]

but anyway

[steep ridge]

what are the lore implications of shakra's master dying in bilewater

she was doing fine then boom bilewater comes in

[edgy nebula]

it is implied she died of age, no?

[steep ridge]

yeah but it's funnier to think she entered bilewater and fucking died

[muted lantern]

shakra says she died of old age

[scenic stirrup]

Arent snail shamans void

[muted lantern]

no

they are just big fans

[scenic stirrup]

They just worship the void?

[steep ridge]

void's number one supporters in the wake of the ancient civilization not existing anymore

[muted lantern]

they seem to be a sort of occult expert, studying strange and forbidden magics, but they are more tied to soul

having the focus that the soul master killed so many to find

[scenic stirrup]

Moss druid! That sounds important but we only get one tool from her

[steep ridge]

wait is moss druid a woman I thought they were gender non-specific

[muted lantern]

i don't recall

[timber pond]

They are Like Merchants of the Natural Order of Power. I dont think they comand void directly, But are likely Farmilar with it because its the Oposite of soul

[scenic stirrup]

My i didn't read their journal entry

[timber pond]

I think Hornet comments on the fact that The land would become "unintersitng" to them if There was no pale being involved.

Or mabye just GMS

[steep ridge]

talk about range

[scenic stirrup]

So erm shaman crest gives a nature to hornet for wanting to worship our little knight if my interpretation of crests are correct

[timber pond]

nah

[muted lantern]

more likely a inclination towards spellcasting and forbidden powers

[timber pond]

Snail shamans are debatably connected to void.

[scenic stirrup]

Would it be too ambitious to have dlc endings for each crest

💀

[muted lantern]

probably lol

[timber pond]

Silk soul mode would have been enough lmao

[steep ridge]

gone too soon...

I think I miss my wife (silk soul)

[timber pond]

Ari Implied that silk soul Mode would have bassicaly been : Silksong B side

[muted lantern]

what was silk soul supposed to change

[timber pond]

Like The B side Platforming challenges from celeste

[scenic stirrup]

Steel soul too hard

[timber pond]

Alot aparently

[steep ridge]

actually so sad we just got fucking steel soul again

steel soul is so boring silk soul dlc trust trust

[scenic stirrup]

I think im good enough now to one try all story required bosses but travelling to new areas is sounds insane without dying 1-4 times

🤧

[timber pond]

Well Its understandable Considering The already Huge scope. Would you have wanted to actually wait 15 years for the game like William said😂

[random aspen]

i wish steel soul changed mor things but at the same time i suck at the game and i have fomo so nevermind

[steep ridge]

yes I wanted to be 30 when the game came out, team cherry disappoints yet again...

[timber pond]

Silk soul Might be DLC. Mabye thats what they mean by "its going to be Ambitous" lol

[scenic stirrup]

My last steel soul run i lost to cogwork dancers i malded so hard idk how ppl get to lost lace without having a stroke from the stress tbh

[steep ridge]

trust...

[random aspen]

my first and only attempt at steel soul i died to some irrelevant early game gauntlet

[scenic stirrup]

Would rather them add more to skong or them make a new game

[steep ridge]

silksong should be the game that keeps getting shit

[random aspen]

silksong needs godhome dlc at least

shakra master memory fight wya

[steep ridge]

we've already got a whole laundry list of cut content that could be dlc, but once that's done we need more

[lean fog]

fractured mask kinda op you basically don't feel the need to panic until it breaks

[midnight reef]

I think they did have more ambitious plans originally for Silk Soul, but it eventually got cut down into what we see now in Steel Soul

[timber pond]

They Will probalby end up doing both knowing them lmao

[edgy nebula]

im a bit bummed they probably wont continue games in the hk universe after ss

[timber pond]

I think silk Soul Was for when the game Was smaller

[edgy nebula]

with fearless fox n all

[midnight reef]

all I want is a playable Coral Forest

[lean fog]

hornet mentions stuff after you complete the hunter journal, saying 'when i go to another land' and stuff

[midnight reef]

as an area like Lost Verdania

[vague whale]

same

[midnight reef]

the Sands of Karak is interesting, but so boring

[vague whale]

no

[steep ridge]

sands of karak was fun I liked the little platforming challenges

[random aspen]

im not really sure how a 2nd game with hornet would work since she already got all the upgrades

[midnight reef]

Just compared to the Coral Forest it was a bit of a let down

[lean fog]

she gets kidnapped again and loses all her abilities (again)

[steep ridge]

hidden dreams style dlc that adds deeper memories though, that sounds awesome

[trail cedar]

Ss lore ?

[vague whale]

ss lore

[midnight reef]

Yes

[random aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/this-peaks-memes-gif-16921095133411355177

[midnight reef]

I assume they have all the assets for the Coral Forest, they least have a fleshed out enemy roster lol

[steep ridge]

I felt a bit disappointed until I realized the lore of the zone

[trail cedar]

OH SilkSong I thought of something else

[random aspen]

we obviously need more memory fights

shakra master rotting corpse: yooo

[vague whale]

what else did you think of in the hollow knight discord

[midnight reef]

I was really excited for the area, I know why it doesnt exist is well explained within the lore, GMS couldn't have competition in Karak

[trail cedar]

Just for 2seconds

[craggy smelt]

I do wonder how interesting a coral forest zone would be, if it were presumably populated with all the enemies from the coral tower
we kinda already know all the stuff they do...

[timber pond]

They Just need to make the Old Stuff they Had into A realm we Can acess Like White palace. The Three hearts are The mirrored version of white palace: Grand combat Challenge VS Grand platforming Challenges

White palace in OG Hollow Knight Just becomes COMPLETELY inaccessible after you beat it Only in Grimm troup did they Add Path Of pain and made it able to be Revisted.
I Imagine They Might do something similar for the hearts and add more to Lost Verdania While making them All Rescissible.

[craggy smelt]

I guess there would be new combat possibilities with the different environment

it'd be kinda like running into Fools outside the colossuem

[random aspen]

this arena looked so much better btw

[steep ridge]

yeah

[midnight reef]

The other area that was least mentioned and I'd like to see (though I kinda doubt we will) is the City of Steel

[steep ridge]

nah hard disagree, his arena in the game rn is fucking sick with the throne in the back

[lethal burrow]

second sentinel lore 🔥 🔥 🔥

[steep ridge]

yeah let's talk about second sentinel

[craggy smelt]

the protagonist of the 3rd game!

[lethal burrow]

ye

[lethal burrow]

YE

[midnight reef]

Nah, Seth ;3

[timber pond]

They Could very Easily Do what they did with White palace In hollow knight to The 3 hearts in this game.

[edgy nebula]

i dont think tc would profit off of seth

[craggy smelt]

i would also love that
though i think that might go against the spirit of his character

[craggy smelt]

City of Steel for Act 4! New map! Citadel-sized area with multiple sub-regions!

[lethal burrow]

hollow knight: steel sentinel.

[midnight reef]

I'd use Pharloom bay for it, make it act 2.5 content ;3

[steep ridge]

coral forest is path of pain

[random aspen]

ari gibon spending 7 hours on the background just for it to be blurred by 500%

[timber pond]

ehhh but you know what i mean. The 3(4) Hearts Can defintely get a DLC update

[steep ridge]

yeah

[timber pond]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HollowKnight/comments/1nxi2ei/spoilers_quick_concept_map_of_silksong_dlc_based/

[steep ridge]

verdania definitely seems like it's being set up for dlc with the beta branch update

[timber pond]

Fun idea i found

[steep ridge]

considering it's regrowing underneath green prince's corpse

[midnight reef]

late act 2 content, maybe accessible if you go to the Cradle and collecting a key from there?

[edgy nebula]

weavenest marinara

[midnight reef]

YES
EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING

[steep ridge]

same thing could happen with the others

[timber pond]

Yeah Extra Stuff in the past to Flesh out the tribes like some bosses or something along with Spirit items or something is pretty likely

[steep ridge]

we finally enter karmelita's arena outside of the memory

[lethal burrow]

let us not forget the lifeblood update

[muted lantern]

i think the dlc should just be grimm appearing and dying instantly

[steep ridge]

lifeblood update that buffed traitor lord so he wasn't the worst fight in the game, just one of the worst

[midnight reef]

act 3 feels like Team Cherry had content they wanted to add into the game, that they couldnt due to the shifting story

Hence the Coral Gorge being reduced to an arena gauntlet

[random aspen]

do yall prefer hk story or ss story

[midnight reef]

I like both

[random aspen]

hydrogen bomb vs coughing baby

[steep ridge]

idk

[timber pond]

They are Equal in diffrent ways

Its litteraly mirrored lol

[random aspen]

the idea is similar

[timber pond]

The point of silksong is that its Mirrored Hollow Knight

[random aspen]

but theres more characters to look at in hk

[muted lantern]

hard to say, played ss more recently so it's more fresh in my mind. i think they feel like 2 parts of the same story

[timber pond]

Nah theres an equal ammount?

[balmy vortex]

guys, hear me out

plasmium dlc

[random aspen]

hk has dreamers pale king radiance all the vessels thk white lady theres a ton

[timber pond]

Games are like fucking Greek Myth But Bug

[steep ridge]

all the vessels and there's like 3 relevant vessels

the knight, broken vessel, and the hollow knight

[balmy vortex]

lol

[random aspen]

thats 3 more than silksong

[midnight reef]

I do hope one of the updates brings in the Steel Assasins properly, it'd be really sad if they got cut twice XD

[steep ridge]

true...

[balmy vortex]

ive always wondered why the skarr tribe uses skulls/bones as their armor

[steep ridge]

trophies

[timber pond]

WEavers, Burning men in wisp thicket, Steel Clan (even moreso) , The Fate of Each Conductor ,Phantom

[random aspen]

aura

[balmy vortex]

its not like theyre collecting them though

[steep ridge]

the skarr scouts don't have them

[random aspen]

flame stuff is like on the side its not really relevant to the story

[timber pond]

Ok true.

Snail shamans are actuall chracters

[steep ridge]

they win more battles and claim the bones as trophies, I feel like that's not a super hard connection to make

[random aspen]

honestly idk if shamans or more important in hk or ss maybe ss since they start the entire act 3 but hk gives the knight all the spells

[steep ridge]

ss

[midnight reef]

the biggest lore win from Silksong is that we learned that Hornet like sawblades and fluffy bugs

[timber pond]

They Are more relevant to silksong, In HK they are all fucking dead lol

[balmy vortex]

thats why the white palace has a lot of them

sawblades

[toxic mulch]

*shawblades

[steep ridge]

biggest lore loss is that we learned hornet slaps children

[random aspen]

has hornet ever seen the white palace

[midnight reef]

yes

[balmy vortex]

probably

[steep ridge]

considering the end of the red memory

[midnight reef]

in Red Memory shes literally in the garb of a palace courtier

[random aspen]

ohh yeah she parkours on wingmoulds

[midnight reef]

which seems to be before training with Vespa, as she lacks the Needle

[balmy vortex]

shes the daughter of the pale king, of course shes been there at least once

[toxic mulch]

She could simply not carry it when she's there

[midnight reef]

yeah

[random aspen]

pale kings dead beat tho

[craggy smelt]

hey, lookin' good

[balmy vortex]

it couldnt have been a "memory" if you havent seen it

[toxic mulch]

I mean what would she need her weapon for in her father's palace

[random aspen]

to pogo on the saws

[steep ridge]

pale king forcing hornet to take off the cloak deeply connected to her mother so she can wear the garb that looks more like his because he's a fucking narcissist

[midnight reef]

The way I understood daughter of 3 queens was it went born to herrah, raised by the white lady, and trained by vespa in that order

[random aspen]

wasnt she raised by midwife

[midnight reef]

no

[steep ridge]

no, midwife was the midwife

[midnight reef]

Midwife is... shocker... a midwife

[toxic mulch]

Doesn't silksong make it abundantly clear she dislikes the PK?

[balmy vortex]

midwife

[random aspen]

mid ass wife

[midnight reef]

Yes, Hornet thinks the Pale King is a fool for trying to control the void

[vital ruin]

Midwifes are for helping delivering babies xd

[midnight reef]

and makes that absolutely clear

[steep ridge]

well she's not wrong, his intended plan kinda blew up in his face

[midnight reef]

its part of the hunters journal for the Wingsmoulds

[steep ridge]

he doesn't get any credit for dream no more, neither does white lady she just wanted the knight to replace the hollow knight

[midnight reef]

though I have to say, I do think that Hornet spent some time with the Pale King, before the PK died

or least inherited the PKs love to tinker

[toxic mulch]

Oh yes definitely

[steep ridge]

spending time with my elderly father that I hate because he's a narcissist

[toxic mulch]

She probably has a FEW good memories of him but thinks he was a very flawed person

[midnight reef]

Hes a narcissist, but you must consider

sawblades.

[steep ridge]

true...

[toxic mulch]

They probably tinkered together a few times in his workshop

[midnight reef]

yeah

[steep ridge]

pale king is the guy that taught her how to make those sting shard things she uses in her sentinel boss fight

[random aspen]

kinda unrelated but i think its funny as fuck white lady says zuma con con

[toxic mulch]

White lady? White woman jumpscare

[steep ridge]

my source is that I made it the fuck up btw

[hidden crater]

White lady was a champion at zuma

[midnight reef]

thats what I think, and she likely was never around the Hollow Knight
She only left deepnest when Herrah started service as a dreamer, and that'd kinda need THK in the Black Egg

[toxic mulch]

She also likely didn't see vessels until after hallownest fell but maybe pk or white lady told her about them?

[midnight reef]

I dont know

The White Lady might've told her after the fall of Hallownest

[toxic mulch]

Perhaps

[steep ridge]

vessels be everywhere in hallownest

[midnight reef]

consdering Hegomol is suprised that there were more Vessels

[steep ridge]

ogrim, hegemol was the guy false knight took the armor from

[midnight reef]

oh whoops

[toxic mulch]

She definitely had talks with white lady after the fall of hallownest,prolly when dryya was still alive

[midnight reef]

yeah
forgor, too much remembering that Hegomol was the original name for Herrah

[steep ridge]

this means hegemol was secretly a weaver trust trust

[craggy smelt]

it makes sense!

[toxic mulch]

It is kinda upsetting that the dryya boss fight was cut from the original game but I suppose traitor Lord makes more sense

[steep ridge]

replaced peak with mid team cherry truly never changes

[toxic mulch]

Team cherry make the 5 great knights fightable in silksong dlc and my life is yours!

[steep ridge]

team cherry ripping off a fanmade mod I see...

[cold creek]

Could someone tell me the lore of the Bell Beast?

PLZ

[steep ridge]

it's in the name

[toxic mulch]

I'd love to know if hornet got along with any of them,I imagine she might've liked dryya and hegemol,maybe ze'mer

[random aspen]

the boss i wanna fight the most out of the 5 knights is hegemol

itll be so interesting to see how different he would fight compared to dumbass maggot knight

[steep ridge]

hornet hated ogrim because he rolled around in shit

[toxic mulch]

I mean hegemol seems to have fought bare handed

[cold creek]

Guys I got warned for shit posting in here.

[steep ridge]

he's like a bug version of the thing

[toxic mulch]

I also wonder how an isma boss battle would go

[craggy smelt]

that's Nosk

[cold creek]

You know what I'm gonna do?

[steep ridge]

wrong the thing

[cold creek]

Shit post

[craggy smelt]

hur hur

[toxic mulch]

Isma might have a similar moveset to nyleth but with acid instead of the pollen stuff

[limpid summit]

It’s next to the Wormways worms in the journal

Might be distantly related to them

[cold creek]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-hornet-silksong-hollow-knight-silksong-pharloom-gif-11339581464096100828

[toxic mulch]

The bell beast seems to be a citadel mutated form of the wormways worms

[toxic mulch]

Why

[random aspen]

thats cool to think cus why would a creature evolve just to dig in bells

[steep ridge]

wow the citadel committing heinous crimes who would've thought

[limpid summit]

Start diggin in yo bells

[toxic mulch]

Their visual appearances are way too similar to be a coincidence

[steep ridge]

gave us eira though

[limpid summit]

It’s possible that the bell beasts are due to memorium meddling

I didn’t think about that

[toxic mulch]

But that also means,lifeblood infected bell beast

[cold creek]

Me when the mods don't want me to shit post in lore:

[limpid summit]

It moves around too much luckily

[steep ridge]

don't wanna think about that

[random aspen]

i dont think lifeblood was in wormways for that long

[cold creek]

https://tenor.com/view/conquest-invincible-stand-ready-for-my-arrival-worm-gif-15777158959434760659

[steep ridge]

yeah it's in the rules

[toxic mulch]

I know but it's possible

[random aspen]

you can probably do it if its something to do with the lore

[toxic mulch]

I mean we make jokes quite a bit but this channel at the end of the day is for actual lore discussions

Off topic shitposts don't really belong

[random aspen]

like this

[steep ridge]

the lifeblood in the wormways seems to be a recent thing seeing as zango probably hasn't been dead for that long

[limpid summit]

Yup

[toxic mulch]

Yes I know

[hidden crater]

Hes gay and makes tornados

[toxic mulch]

TROBBIO!!!!

🎇🎇🎇

[limpid summit]

“Lifeblood infection” does seem to spread since a cocoon pops up in bonegrave but it’s much more physical than infection

[steep ridge]

screams his name a ton and waxes poetic about restoring pharloom's glory only to try and kill everyone when the a problem arises

[limpid summit]

So it’s not gonna spread through bugs’ minds

[random aspen]

trobbio was probably THIS 🤏 close to being cut

but tc liked him too much

[hidden crater]

If theres 1 thing silksong taught me its that gay people can make tornados

[steep ridge]

(he tried to restore pharloom's glory by killing everyone anyways)

[toxic mulch]

He has absolutely nothing to do with the lore but he's just so silly

[random aspen]

honestly i wouldve loved if trobbio was located in whisp thicket and he had something to do with that

[steep ridge]

gay people make tornadoes and non-binary people hit you with their ass

[toxic mulch]

Ass Jim 💪

[random aspen]

instead of some random citadel guy who does whatever

[steep ridge]

I like that trobbio is just some random theater kid from the citadel

[toxic mulch]

Can confirm as a gae woman I create tornadoes constantly

[hidden crater]

Bro knows he aint built for this

[steep ridge]

we need more thespians in games

[random aspen]

confirmation its hit eyes and not his sexy mustache

[toxic mulch]

What

Trobbio doesn't have a moustache that's like his wings/fur type thing

[steep ridge]

he saw the lesbian that kicked his ass and panicked

[vital ruin]

I find it intesresting that Trobbio's VA is almost identical to his real name "Trobbiani

[toxic mulch]

I love how the community has collectively agreed hornet cannot be straight

[random aspen]

they look like mustaches cus theyre half not on his face

[steep ridge]

matthew trobbiani's self insert

[toxic mulch]

Ah I was talking about the fluff on him but ye in that render they kinda look like a mustache

[random aspen]

maybe if i add eyes its easier to see

[steep ridge]

fleamaster mooshka

[random aspen]

yooo trobbio flea theory

[toxic mulch]

Trobbio was actually just mooshkas stage name

Think about it,have you ever seen them in the same room?

And they both enjoy celebrations 🤔

[hidden crater]

Mooshkaneckly

[vital ruin]

Have we even seen trobbio outside of his own boss room xd

[toxic mulch]

Mooshka is trobbio confirmed,don't bother fact checking me I know I'm right

[random aspen]

trobbio probably looks stupid as fuck without that scarf thing

[radiant badger]

Ngl i believe before the citadel was there the area was like a deepnest enviroment. Or atleast a part of it

[lapis creek]

i think it was more coral

the karak apparently controlled half of pharloom

[edgy nebula]

i forgot his antennae wait

[edgy nebula]

my artistic rendition

[prisma jay]

How does sherma get into act 2?

[chrome atlas]

He says that the judges in Blasted Steps didn't attack him, so he probably just walked in

[graceful grail]

Is Greyroot related to White Lady??

[graceful grail]

He can change his eyes from Red to Purple, they are either dyed or stapled on his face

[chrome atlas]

contacts

[graceful grail]

Also, is he a Butterfly??

[edgy nebula]

he got that eye color changing surgery

[trail cedar]

What's up in the Skibidi Sigma lore

[graceful grail]

He says he is a butterfly on one of his papers, is he pretending to be one or is he one.

[random aspen]

headcanon hes a mayfly

[graceful grail]

I dont think he is the same thing as marrissa

[lethal burrow]

There are many types of butterflies to be fair

[random aspen]

hornet x shakra is the only non canon ship that makes sense

[toxic mulch]

It's also the only one that'd actually work narratively

[random aspen]

erm yeah thats why it makes sense

[toxic mulch]

Shush my brain is slow

[hidden crater]

I love when team cherry adds details for the most useless things

[wintry prairie]

Oh I never even noticed that lol

[toxic mulch]

Big flea :D

[hidden crater]

Such an amazing detail that NO ONE will ever notice

[wintry prairie]

I never even thought to look after getting the first 5

[hidden crater]

hehe big flea go AWOOOOOOOO

[toxic mulch]

Big flea can screw off in flea dodge tho

That thing was a menace

[wintry prairie]

lol

[toxic mulch]

Do you get anything for beating Seth's scores?

[hidden crater]

Hes the reason I kept on losing my high score runs in flea dodge

[hidden crater]

A memento

[wintry prairie]

Memento

[toxic mulch]

Damn

I am not prepared for that

Hopefully it isn't needed for 100% 🙏

[hidden crater]

NUH UH

[wintry prairie]

Mementos are just for bragging rights

[toxic mulch]

Ok

I only have garmonds(rip) rn

[edgy nebula]

is there a lore reason for why hornet is so fucking tiny

[toxic mulch]

Wdym

[edgy nebula]

even generally small characters are bigger than her

trobbio is far taller, gilly is like her entire mass, et cetera

she is so small

[toxic mulch]

Are you seriously asking hornet why she's short smh

So rude,asking a bug her height

[edgy nebula]

yes! she needs to put on some heels or something shes like 4’2

better yet some stilts

[hidden crater]

Wait till we get a canon design for weaver queen hornet then we can come back to this subject

[toxic mulch]

Also it's strange the bugs of both games are like 5 ft tall

[hidden crater]

We'll see the weaver queens design in silksongs godhome ending trust

[wintry prairie]

Have you seen her father?

[edgy nebula]

seriously this is just sad

[toxic mulch]

Hornet is just a short goober leave her alone

[wintry prairie]

Her dad is literally a short king

[toxic mulch]

It's better than her being the size of his wyrm form

[wintry prairie]

💀

[toxic mulch]

Hornet just walks up to citadel and kicks it,boom game finished

[wintry prairie]

Ez

[graceful grail]

I bet they drew thoes first then made the real sprites. They thought it thru

[vestal oracle]

Weavernest ABSOLOM.

What is the lore behind that? The only weaver we know connected to the void is well... a part weaver- hornet!

This proves that weavers and if not the void- atleast the abyss had some sort of connection.. but what..? We know these were built after grand mother silk made weavers from pharlids.. and we don't really know when. It might be a good idea to consider weavenest atla as one of the first because it was sort of a hub for the rebellion. It had traps such as snare setter and Eva, who was supposed to suppress gms but didn't work so

[vale plover]

I have the feeling, and it's just a theory, but I THINK, the presence of weavernests under pharloom is NOT a sign that the knight and quirrel kissed for 48 hours straight.

[vestal oracle]

It just seems weird and definitely intentional to the lore that a weavenest was in the abyss.. and not like the tip of it either. The extreme bottom of it just above the shades

[wintry prairie]

I mean it makes sense that pharloom weavers would have one there

[vestal oracle]

Isn't that just the territory of the void at that point though?

[wintry prairie]

We know that the deep dock workers used to make trips often enough to the abyss that they had the infrastructure for it

[vestal oracle]

The abyss was not always there.

It came after the void came and that too after the wish completed

[wintry prairie]

The abyss is just a layer. Why wouldn’t it be there before?

[vestal oracle]

However it could be that the void just transformed a very very deep part of deep docks to an extension of the abyss

[vestal oracle]

The abyss is sort of a home to the void

I guess it's never told if it's finite or just a layer like you said
However it can take 2 turns.

Either the abyss is a place where void is dominant but the void itself isn't everywhere. The abyss is where the void resides.

OR, the abyss is a finite place in hallownest which extended towards pharloom in act 3. So before its extension, it would be treated as a very deep part of deep docks. And I guess it would be a good place to hide from gms? It's not mentioned which one of the 2 things is true as far as I remember

[wintry prairie]

Well we know the weavers studied the abyss and void

[vestal oracle]

Coz of farsight?

[wintry prairie]

And the weavenest and the lore tablets of the void

Plus they had a map of it

[vestal oracle]

The lore tablets are just a thing the void has

They are even in the original hk

Map idk tho it might be the void or weaver

[wintry prairie]

The tablets in HK were from the ancient civilization and the ones in Silksong are from the weavers

You find the ones in HK in a pretty obvious observation post

I doubt we will ever get a concrete answer but it seems that most stuff points to the abyss and the void just being a thing. Large and deep enough that two different kingdoms know about it

And at least 1 civilization that worshipped it

[vestal oracle]

Shamans literally make so many possibilities

[vestal oracle]

The ancient ones?

[wintry prairie]

Seems so

[vestal oracle]

Also where's the arcan egg in ss

[wintry prairie]

The shamans are also pretty clueless when it comes to void

[vestal oracle]

That might prove abyss is a layer

[wintry prairie]

Just sitting in a corner behind some parkour iirc

[vestal oracle]

Not the one in ss though. They know about the fact it can eat gms

Also in the original game the alive shaman points our hollowness

[wintry prairie]

Yes but they don’t understand it’s true power which is why they almost destroyed the kingdom

The shamans seem to know what void is but they have no idea what it can

[vestal oracle]

I really hope TC unravels the void and the different civilisations in a DLC

Kind of like hidden dreams but for places?

[vestal oracle]

Yeah might be

[wintry prairie]

I hope so, even after giving us an act dedicated to void we still barely understand it

[hazy iron]

this heavily implies its a layer and exists everywhere

shadow creeper hunter journal

[vestal oracle]

Oh damn

[hazy iron]

its always there if you go down far enough

[wintry prairie]

I also liked how the shadow creepers had black eyes since they wouldn’t be infected in Silksong

[vestal oracle]

Yeahhhhh

[wintry prairie]

Silksong abyss is a lot stranger than the HK abyss also

I always thought arcane eggs are from the ancient civilization. Lemm seems to imply that they used them to store knowledge

[timber pond]

Pale king got his plan from an arcane egg most likely

They have text that can be deciphered, though Lemm says he has trouble

[wintry prairie]

Lemm doesn’t wanna damage them or something

[timber pond]

Hornet says she knows a vast number of languages and whatever the arcane egg is written in is likely one

I still Think The masters are like the Last Ancient Civilization bugs Who successfully Turned Themselves into shades by Combining like Shade Lord does.

[wintry prairie]

We will see in the steel city dlc frfr

[hidden crater]

Bro thinks hes slick

[dusky bay]

I love how 90% of the ss lore is us thinking about wth is gonna be the dlc

[wintry prairie]

[dusky bay]

LMAO WHAT-
April fools type shi

[wintry prairie]

They gave us so much new shit for lore and yet so many questions

[hidden crater]

April fools 2026 every flea is replaced with a savage beastfly

[dusky bay]

YEAAAA wai wh-

[wintry prairie]

Can’t wait for the double beastfly boss in the pantheons

[toxic mulch]

Triple beastfly with maggot water and a 30 minute arena beforehand

Also no floor

[wintry prairie]

Someone already did a bilewater beastfly mod

This is further proof that this community is full of masochists

[hidden crater]

I love how the community just cant agree on how weaver queen hornet looks like

[vestal oracle]

why are we

[vestal oracle]

Cool pfp though abandoned ending right?

[hidden crater]

Ye

[midnight reef]

Not all of them

They're the wrong style to be Weaver's

the one on the far left of the Abyss is clearly Ancient Civilization

Same with the one in the center top

Only the map and stuff inside Weavernest Absolom are from the Weavers

if anything, the AC was far, far larger than I'd originally thought when we just had Hollow Knight for reference

[wintry prairie]

They seemed to have a decent grasp on the void before whatever happened happened

[midnight reef]

...probably wasnt one monolithic thing, maybe like Polynesians? colonizing and worshiping the void wherever they could find caves deep enough to harbor it

like, some early concepts (like 2014) for Hollow Knight had the void being sailed by the knight, maybe the AC did that and colonized a large swath of the deepest caves

[wintry prairie]

That would be interesting to see more of

[midnight reef]

I could be really, reallly pushing it here, maybe the reason that Hornet can understand the pilgrims of Pharloom and the bugs of Hallownest is because their language is all desended of the ACs?

[wintry prairie]

Well Hornet also says she just understands a lot of languages

So it could be a her thing

[midnight reef]

Could explain why she cant understand the Skarr, they might've come about completely separately to the linquistic structures the AC made originally

and they never seemed concerned with diplomacy, unlike the Hive

[wintry prairie]

The Skarr were also pretty isolationist and just killed everyone who got close

[midnight reef]

or well, I guess we never see Hornet try and talk to a normal denizen of the hive

yeah

and Hornet can understand Karmalita

which would make some sense as she would probably be the only one who needs to interact with other bugs

[wintry prairie]

She also could be a form of higher being

[midnight reef]

Nothing reallly implies that

I think the shamans put it best, or least what I remember from them
Pharloom in the past had some very powerful and strong willed bugs

Karmalita especially, considering she managed to hold off the Skarr falling to the haunting for longer than anyone else

...also the only one living to do so, I guess

it also led me to check

Karmalita is older than the Haunting, shes not effected by the Needolin

which would imply to me that all the act 3 heart bosses are, but Im pretty sure the shamans said that explicitly and then I forgot

[wintry prairie]

He says they were all there before GMS so they would be

[midnight reef]

yeah

[terse warren]

The Kingdoms were there before GMS, not the specific rulers

[terse warren]

She just doesn't have silk inside her which doesn't necessarily mean she's older than the Haunting, although that is the case

[wintry prairie]

The shamans specifically mention the rulers

[terse warren]

There is no world where Green Prince is older than the Weavers

!wiki Snail Shamans (silksong)

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Snail_Shamans_(Silksong)

Hollow Knight Wiki

Snail Shamans (Silksong)

Loading page description…

[wintry prairie]

Green prince wasn’t mentioned by them tho

[hidden crater]

I needed an excuse to post this

[wintry prairie]

Canon btw

[hidden crater]

Snail shamans the type of people to summon a world eating demon and call it a mild prank

[wintry prairie]

They’re a little silly

[terse warren]

"BH : Pharloom was not born of that monarch, Old One. Power existed in these lands even before she bound them beneath her.
BH : Grnk. Seek the old hearts of our kingdom and the last successors to bear their strength."

"The old hearts and the last successors to bear their strength"

The power is from before GMS, not the specific rulers

[wintry prairie]

Doesn’t really change much tho

[terse warren]

While the game talks about "the Pale Monarch's influence" it never quite specifies the Haunting and imo considering how it says she only did it that while in her prime and how recent the Haunting is, I doubt that's what the game is referring to

[mortal birch]

The old hearts and their respective kingdoms and tribes are from before the weavers built the citadel

[terse warren]

The Kingdoms are but not the rulers we meet

Well, except for Nyleth probably

[viscid ridge]

Wait, what exactly killed the weavers back in hallownest? They dont seem to have died due to the infection, the entire nest is completely clean

[midnight reef]

Infected Weavers

There's a ton of them infesting Deepnest

[viscid ridge]

The big weavers, not the little ones

[wintry prairie]

Did anything even kill them tho? Its possible they just left and were killed back in pharloom

[mortal birch]

speaking of that is midwife hornets midwife

[midnight reef]

Yeah, the smaller ones could've overwhelmed the bigger ones, who knows

[mortal birch]

midwife could have taken out like 8 weavers

[midnight reef]

Midwife is the midwife for deepnest

Which considering the curse on the Weavers is a very important role lol

[viscid ridge]

We do see their corpses all over the weavenest, but i only now realize that they are just dead without any infection

[wintry prairie]

Conflict with an infected deepnest?

[mortal birch]

possible envoys?

[terse warren]

The went back to Pharloom except the infected ones that died

[wintry prairie]

I feel like weavers wouldn’t be able to get infected very easily

[terse warren]

The only one we meet in HK is infected

[terse warren]

I doubt the Weaver Spawns are canon anymore

[viscid ridge]

Yeah we know most of them went back to pharloom, but the ones that are in the weavers den seems to have died from some other unrelated reason which is strange

[mortal birch]

are weavers cursed to be infertile by GMS?

[viscid ridge]

The baby ones yea, but the only grown weaver is not

[terse warren]

No it's just nigh impossible and painful

[mortal birch]

was that always a thing or is that silksong lore

[terse warren]

And we just know it's a "curse" not any info on who placed it or if it's like actually magical or biological

[wintry prairie]

Skong lore

[viscid ridge]

Silksong lore, but it doesn't really conflict with hk lore

[terse warren]

Yes it does the Weaver Spawns

[mortal birch]

enhances it gives much more motivation for herrah wanting to have hornet

[wintry prairie]

It’s not impossible tho, just difficult

[mortal birch]

they could just be misnamed beacuse the hunter is lame

[terse warren]

Little Weavers*

Which already makes no sense since all Weavers are girls

[terse warren]

"nigh impossible"

It's not easy enough to have Deepnest be full of them

[wintry prairie]

Nothing suggests that tho

[mortal birch]

you also forget deepest isn't a very kind place

and there's no reason the believe any of the spiders that were around before them like nosk were friendly

[terse warren]

Nothing suggests what

[viscid ridge]

You equate difficult to spawn, with impossible to spawn. Just because they have difficult to have children doesn't mean they completely cant. We also dont know how long the weavers were in Hallownest, and there is also a possibility that the Little weavers aren't babys, but just tiny weavers

[wintry prairie]

That they couldn’t have had the children while in deepnest

[terse warren]

Y'all are seriously underestimating what "nigh impossible" means

They made Eva as a way to try to circumvent said curse

If Weavers could have that many babies, they would not try to make an artificial god as a surrogate

[wintry prairie]

The weavers in deepnest still exist regardless of what your definition of impossible is

And so does Hornet

[terse warren]

I'm talking about the Little Weaver enemies

[viscid ridge]

But thats the thing, Eva isn't supposed to be offspring, she is supposed to be a god. I think having an actual child is another story

[wintry prairie]

Which are still weavers unless team cherry says otherwise

[terse warren]

!wiki Eva

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Eva

Hollow Knight Wiki

Eva

Loading page description…

[viscid ridge]

Im pretty sure the Little weavers are just tiny weavers. Their description doesn't mention them being offspring, only calling them nimble, which would make sense if they were just weavers that are smaller in order to be faster

[terse warren]

"Hornet: I know the curse well, Eva, for I am also its victim, and spawn of one who managed to overcome its limits.
Hornet: Are you too an attempt to defy that cruel constraint?
Eva: A flawed attempt. A life spun from rune and shell, sustained only by its cage. My thoughts may mimic a Weavers but my senses are my own."

[terse warren]

The Weavers fled Hallownest already, they can't be full on Weavers

[viscid ridge]

?

[terse warren]

If you can just make as many babies as the little weavers are, you don't try to create something like Eva to defy the curse

[viscid ridge]

Maybe im not understanding correctly, but why does that not make them weavers?

[terse warren]

The Weavers are said to have fled Hallownest, except for the one we see

Why would there actually be a lot of Weavers still here? Was the line about the Weavers fleeing a lie?

[viscid ridge]

Cause they were infected?

[wintry prairie]

Where is here? Hallownest? They’re all dead or infected. Pharloom? Also all dead except for two

And what is a lot? You don’t see more than a dozen small ones throughout deepnest unless you count reloading the enemies as more

[terse warren]

Johnathan is arguing that Little Weavers aren't children of Weavers but full on Weavers. "Here" is Hallownest

[terse warren]

A dozen is a lot for a species cursed with birth being "nigh impossible"...

[wintry prairie]

That doesn’t mean they can’t do it though. They had plenty of time to try and they weren’t stupid

[terse warren]

What does "they weren't stupid" contribute towards here

[viscid ridge]

Im just arguing that the little weavers are not children, they are just short

[wintry prairie]

Because they are smart enough to figure things out. They built a civilization

[terse warren]

We see like what, 12 Weavers in Red Memory? All of them had children? Doesn't sound that nigh impossible

[terse warren]

Figure what out???

[wintry prairie]

How to have kids dude

[terse warren]

That's not how something being "nigh impossible" works

There is no magical substance that makes it suddenly super easy

[wintry prairie]

You’re really hung up on that term when we see baby weavers in hallownest

Two things can be true at once

[steep nebula]

is grand mother silk a "great mother" like mother Theresa or something or a mother's mother, or both

[terse warren]

Well technically both, but it's meant as Great Mother

[terse warren]

Not if those things directly contradict each other

[viscid ridge]

Although i kinda agree, we have to take in mind that nothing about the little weavers description calls them baby's

[wintry prairie]

How would they?

[terse warren]

Why would the Weavers just randomly be short

If the birth is nigh impossible, then not every Weaver is gonna have a child, which means there can't be nearly as many little Weavers as we see?

[viscid ridge]

Cause they were probably a different type of weaver, like how we see the normal ball head weavers, the spike head weavers and herrah. They are all different, but they are all still weavers

[wintry prairie]

You’re basing everything off the number of weavers we see in hornets memory

There could easily have been many more

[terse warren]

Herrah's appearance got retconned to be much more standard

All the Weavers have more or less the same body type, none of them are just drastically smaller

[terse warren]

There could've been 100 and 12 children would still be too much

"nigh impossible" words actually mean something

[wintry prairie]

According to what? There’s nothing that would suggest that is too much other than your interpretation lol

[viscid ridge]

Even if she got "retconned" she still has a more unique look compared to the other weavers, so my point still stands

[terse warren]

Because that's not what nigh impossible means, and if the birthrate was 1.2/10 then you wouldn't try to make an artificial god-child to try to surpass the curse

[terse warren]

The only thing that's different is the spikes on her head, which can be explained by her mask being removed

The general body type and height is always the same

[wintry prairie]

Again you’re stuck on that term lmao

[terse warren]

Because it's information given to us in the game???

[wintry prairie]

With no real mathematical meaning

There are baby weavers in hallownest. Nigh impossible or not they had kids

[viscid ridge]

I see your point, but i still doubt the notion

[wintry prairie]

I mean the main protagonist of Silksong is part weaver and you find cages that held weaver descendants in the cradle

[terse warren]

Because that's a way bigger sample size than Hallownest

[terse warren]

1/10 is not nigh impossible

[wintry prairie]

Then ig the meaning doesn’t mean what you think it does lol

Nigh impossible or not they still had kids in hallownest and outside of hallownest

Both games show that

[quick furnace]

Hello, is this the place where I can ask for a bit of plot I didn't understand?

[dire lynx]

yes

[quick furnace]

Why did Hornet kill the ||Green Prince||?

Sure, he got enraged by her visiting his dream, but ultimately he is a good guy.

[slow olive]

Gameplay reason i think is his heart was needed for the shaman magic (if u had trouble beating one of the other bosses)

Him being part of a previous kingdom meant his heart fit the bill

[terse warren]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[quick furnace]

I suppose it's probably just gameplay, because it does feel a little out of character for Hornet to kill someone friendly and lucid.

[slow olive]

And it didnt seem like he had any desire to continue on after finding his lover's corpse?

[dire lynx]

He had done all that was left he wanted to in life, now he just wants to rest with his lover. Other than that, if you dont already have three hearts, its because she needs it for the spell

[quick furnace]

I suppose that makes the most sense.

[terse warren]

The guy literally says to leave him to mourn

[dire lynx]

he also asks you to leave him locked up

[quick furnace]

It's still kinda odd, since even ||Trobbio,|| got spared twice, and he is definitely not as nice as the ||Prince|| was.

[dire lynx]

trobbio was just putting on a show, unlike most other bosses who are actually fighting

[quick furnace]

Thanks for answering 🙂

[dire lynx]

happy to help, all of us here do our best :]

[ebon silo]

I wonder what's the lore behind nyleth like

[fathom hill]

It really does

Some have though that the reason why tc decided to have grass growing out of the green prince's body in the recent beta patch is an attempt to make Hornet's decision less weird, by having Verdania healing a bit

[cobalt coyote]

Hornets homophobic i guess

[fathom hill]

But outside from that, we really don't know why she did that lmao

[cobalt coyote]

Maybe same weird reason she says if you do karmelita last

[fathom hill]

Specially since she does spare other sulking characters like the pintress or even lace

[cobalt coyote]

To hone her skills before descending??

[wanton sail]

hello :D

[fathom hill]

Could be

or maybe she just can't be bothered with sulking men

[fathom hill]

heyy

[grim mantle]

🤔

[plush spoke]

what was the first sinner's sin?

[rain skiff]

going against grand mother silk i think, or something related to the weavers origins

also question
is Nyleth a higher being? like Unn?

[timber pond]

Up for debate but pepole tend to lean towards no.

[rain skiff]

damn
lowkey a little dissapointed, i really liked the concept of higher beings, so its a little dissapointing to see that silksong has only one

[timber pond]

Well the definition of higher being is a little loosey goosey. Most higher beings we see in hollow knight are in dreams

I wouldn't say the Strong tribe leaders of silksong are inferior to higher beings we see in hollow knight

It's kind of just hard to define

[elder rune]

Kinda, but I think Unn is higher on the totem pole

[rain skiff]

thats interesting, but i dont think that fits
higher beings are born higher beings, and they have the power to manipulate, control, or create minds

khaan cant do any of that

karmelita is a good leader + luckily was very good at singing, which is also the way GMS controls people, so she countered her in a way

but Nyleth supposedly can control all of shellwood if i understood the character correctly

also, higher beings often live for incredibly long periods of time, so thats where Nyleth kinda falls short i think

idk, shes weird

[gentle aspen]

the knight was not born a higher being

[lyric rose]

Yes it was

[gentle aspen]

no it wasn’t

[lyric rose]

Spawn of 2 higher being

[gentle aspen]

It’s only a higher being after getting void heart

[lyric rose]

Can read lore tablets reserved only for higher beings

[gentle aspen]

it’s not genetic, it’s a title you get from being sufficiently strong enough

[gentle aspen]

Literally anyone can read those, those tablets are propaganda

[lyric rose]

Says who

Says the pale being

[gentle aspen]

A non higher being is confirmed to be able to read them, in Ellina

[lyric rose]

?

[gentle aspen]

wanderer’s journal author

[edgy barn]

The content of those tablets is also a bit non-sensical if they are directed towards actual higher being.

[gentle aspen]

actual higher beings would read those and know PK’s just lying lol

“Last and eternal kingdom”

[rain skiff]

which one? player or hollow knight?
both are born from three higher beings (pale king and white lady + void), and both live for an unbelivably long time

thats pretty higher being imo

[gentle aspen]

both

void isn’t inherently a higher being and I already said why being born from them doesn’t make you one

[lyric rose]

Lemme say this

[gentle aspen]

It’s a title, not some genetic whatever

[edgy barn]

They would probably read more like "This is the White Wyrm's domain, turn away unless you intend to respect him and his kingdom, or tend to the consequences"

[lyric rose]

Grimm is a higher being. He knows what’s going on in the Pantheon fights, and he welcomes it.

[rain skiff]

all vessals can be considered higher beings
+i think the abyss is kinda like a hivemind in a way, which in silksong is shown to be able to posess others, so in a way the vessals (as part of the abyss) can posess minds

[gentle aspen]

No?

[gentle aspen]

he’s a vessel for the nightmare heart yes

[lyric rose]

Hornet is a child of a higher being and weaver. She’s like a half higher being.

[gentle aspen]

You can’t be half “above all others”

[lyric rose]

Above like 50% of people lol

[rain skiff]

grimm falls more into the hornet, lace, and phantom category
theyre weird decendants of higher beings

[gentle aspen]

The abyss also explicitly isn’t a hivemind either idk where you got that from

[lyric rose]

Grimm is not a descendant. He is the physical vessel for the higher being

[rain skiff]

mostly lace and phantom

[gentle aspen]

it only becomes unified with void heart

[fathom hill]

The void can only be focused in a point with voidheart, not before

[gentle aspen]

without it it’s a bunch of fragmented wills

[rain skiff]

rly? lowkey didnt know that

[lyric rose]

His cycle of death and rebirth in the grimmchild keeps the heart alive I think

[edgy barn]

Grimmchild is still refferred to as the NH's spawn. he is both things.

[lyric rose]

Ye

[rain skiff]

what was posessing people in silksong act 3
it seemed like a singular mind imo

[gentle aspen]

did you like, ignore the context of it fusing with the haunting or

[rain skiff]

ngl i think every single "high being spawn" is its own category, litteraly non of them can similar 😭

[lyric rose]

It’s silk’s strands intertwining with the void

[edgy barn]

Those are GMS's threads that were already causing the haunting. Void is latching onto them.

[rain skiff]

it is using GMS, yes, but i dont think its mindless fusing