sk-lore

[solemn hinge]

I assume this is a joke but she is canonically not

[foggy fractal]

One to keep far from she was, least for us mortal sorts. Look of a child and a mind to match, but her's been up wanderin' this Citadel longer'n most. Even in its long silence, way 'fore you came and roused its ire.
Might'a seen herself this place's protector, keepin' it clean and quiet as she did. Course quiet meant most crossin' her path found a painful end from her pin.

heres that dialogue btw

[silk dirge]

then find a way to give team cherry feedback about it

[willow epoch]

one could argue hornet gave up on partners and that would fall under aromanticism

[stuck berry]

see this doesn't make sense because one is wrong and one isn't

[foggy fractal]

tc probably wouldn't care lmao

[solemn hinge]

Are the misses in lore in the room with us right now

[fathom hill]

both are wrong

[dire lynx]

she has had partners in the past but she hasnt had any for a long time, id assume due to seeing loved ones wither away while she remains the same she no longer has romantic interest

[fathom hill]

[stuck berry]

i don't know about calling her aro but i do think she gave up on that life

[silk dirge]

i mean id imagine theyd be receptive to critique

[vestal swan]

I mean she's just super old and sick of watching them die before her

[stuck berry]

ok buddy

[willow epoch]

ya one could argue idk

[solemn hinge]

Okay perhaps fair point

[vestal swan]

That doesn't mean she's giving up

[foggy fractal]

do y

[lethal burrow]

maybe it's just the words you're saying and in the specific order you're saying them, but it really does not seem like you like Hollow knight very much

[foggy fractal]

ou think that they would care about an email critiquing their lore

[sinful nimbus]

idk if the main story itself is salvageable

[silk dirge]

i mean probably not emailing them but if they do another ama asking them about their lore decisions

[flint wadi]

its futile the game is finished already

i also dont feel like giving tc flack, especially something they cant really alter now

[silk dirge]

massive lore update go

[foggy fractal]

another ama 💔

[solemn hinge]

Yeah it isn’t, what is there to salvage?

[sinful nimbus]

The only thing they can fix is hornet being a racist 💔

[slow locust]

After what we saw in wormways do you think the "lifeblood god" is shadow creeper infused with plasmium?

more like a shadow charger if they're not the same species

[stuck berry]

what do you think is wrong with the story and worldbuilding

[sinful nimbus]

Act 3 is an incredibly bizarre shift in direction

[solemn hinge]

Hell yeah it is

[willow epoch]

well, you can experience romantic passion while being aro. aro and ace just means theres limitation/big requirements/absence [regardless of how much absence] of xyz attraction. so her disinterest could fall there. but it would be just a detail

[dire lynx]

there is no point engaging with this guy, shes a professional ragebaiter

[stuck berry]

i mean i don't disagree but i don't see anything wrong with it

[stone herald]

Most people really really liked it though

[sinful nimbus]

It just doesn't feel very cohesive

[stuck berry]

nausica fan only likes bad stories fork found in the kitchen

[silk dirge]

change in direction??? celeste strawberry jam reference???

[foggy fractal]

Star you should write a doc and share it every time you have this discussion trust

[solemn hinge]

It just doesn 😔

[fathom hill]

I just hate a bit the fact that lace falls under like this grey area now cuz everything points to her being the mind of child but that wouldnt make sense in a lore perspective, like the vessels are not hollow why should Lace be a child if thats what her pale mother wanted? if she really was the child the people around here says her to be wouldnt the message be tainted by it?

its kind of one of these moments that is ay the canon sucks but thats my perspective and views

[stone herald]

That's not an explanation, how so

[vestal swan]

It's not a gray area

[fathom hill]

Also gotta love how seemingly someone is deleting images they dont like

[vestal swan]

You posted a shit post

[stone herald]

I felt like lace was forcing a childish persona

[foggy fractal]

no images allowed here you gotta type it out and use emojis trust

[fathom hill]

Surely

[sinful nimbus]

You're right I should theme my personality about the objectively superior story about the earth being torched for humanity's sins

[silk dirge]

also idk why people think team cherry cant modify large portions of the base game like i dont think theyd do it but like massive lore updates are a thing that have happened lol

never say never

i personally wouldnt care tho

[warped badger]

they added a stag station to HK, and the bee boss, and many things indeed

[fathom hill]

This is feel too cuz in lace 2 she seems to drop the facade to talk about her nature with Hornet, but giving how this is not only stated once I feel like that one kris deltarune pronouns meme

[mossy root]

I do think that the entire thing with lace being called a child is an aspect of how she’s dehumanized (reduced to nothing But her role as a child)
Now idk if she’s legitimately is a child or not, maybe she is, but it’s still dehumanization in all honesty

[silk dirge]

like the amount of people who care this much about silksong lore are probably in the double digits compared to like 6 million sales

[warped badger]

I do think she's very young but her mind is fully grown, after all she's a silk being

[flint wadi]

yeah yeah gameplay sells we get it

[stone herald]

I really don't think she has the mind of a child in actuality, but just puts up that persona through conditioning.

[foggy fractal]

have you seen the caretaker dialogue 🤑

[stone herald]

She's very old time wise

[willow epoch]

naturally shes dehumanized LOL shes a thing... but yeah i think theres enough room to wiggle both interpretations

[vestal swan]

The game tells it to you twice why do y'all keep denying it

[dire lynx]

I think i should just save this to my computer ATP

[solemn hinge]

Does that even matter

[sinful nimbus]

Because Act 3 is an extreme shift in objective and thematics while also shoehorning a million elements from HK in, often to their detriment

[lethal burrow]

in this case, it appears to actually be true judging by the omnipotent hunters journal

[foggy fractal]

also lace silk heart dialogue from GMS 😔

[stone herald]

No but look at the message I replied to

[fathom hill]

Like if the whole point of her story is to state that she is mind of bug as any other, wouldnt that be contradictory making her not grow up?

[solemn hinge]

If you are 1000 years old and have the mind of a child, you are a child

[fathom hill]

Wouldnt that taint the message altogether?

[fathom hill]

surely

[willow epoch]

being immature is commonly not a child-exclusive thing... but also it would make a lot more sense... rubs chin.... do you guys think shes matured but is forced to be a child both mentally and physically... like she keeps being nerfed over and over by GMS... this would be Inch Resting

[slow locust]

Lace has the mind and body of a child
Even if chronologically she's older than everyone

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway the only important issue with SS's story is that getting Silk and Soul is not intuitive until you've already done it

[fathom hill]

Yeah it is stated thrice thats why I say its a part of canon I just dont like

[lethal burrow]

Well, yeah, yes?

[silk dirge]

finally we can agree

[solemn hinge]

Orrr she’s just a child like the NPC tells us she is

[willow epoch]

silksouls 3

[foggy fractal]

❤️ I hate act 3

[sinful nimbus]

(Not that Silk and Soul is funner the second time)

[stuck berry]

legitimately does not make sense to me that you need to engage with both the relic person and the pin upgrade person i feel like doing all the wishes would be enough to grant you a home

[silk dirge]

the only quests that should be required for act 3 are "setup" quests just to make sure everything is in the right place for act 3

[mossy root]

Yeah agreed

[lethal burrow]

(and the hunters journel)

[sinful nimbus]

Yes it ruined my no needle upgrades playthrough 💔

[solemn hinge]

Silksong hate so forced 💔

[vestal swan]

What you're supposed to be collecting silk and soul?

[flint wadi]

its molded into one of a child

we are talking about miss grand mother "why wont my daughters call me, all im asking for is eternal worship and respect :(" silk

[foggy fractal]

hell yeah

[sinful nimbus]

There isn't enough malice and ire for Silksong in my opinion

[silk dirge]

yeah why is that a requirement

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong love is the forced thing

[lethal burrow]

Yeah, I agree. I do think it's a pretty stupid thing that there's so many requirements.

[solemn hinge]

There isn’t enough malice and ire for you

[foggy fractal]

I quickly became a silksong hater

[stone herald]

There's a ton of it

[stuck berry]

hating on silksong became part of my lifestyle

[vestal swan]

I re-smacked every wall after I got an item or tool or ability and I basically picked up everything I could before progressing every story checkpoint I never hit any of these roadblocks of having to go get anything because I had already done it, is that what you're saying is bad?

[stone herald]

Most people really really like silksong atp

[lethal burrow]

source for when she asked for either of those things

[solemn hinge]

Man I need to stop getting baited

[foggy fractal]

wait a second what is a Petrodragonic

[sinful nimbus]

I WILL TORCH THE ISS

[willow epoch]

there is enough

[foggy fractal]

whatever happend to that Na... whats the name ?

[warped badger]

if Silksong was Lace I'd be GMS cause no matter what happens I'll always love this game

[sinful nimbus]

Nausicaa smh my head

[fathom hill]

If anything i would expect the story to fit well if she was said to be the mind of child but she wasnt, that it was a facade or that she could indeed change and grow

[lethal burrow]

your mom

[sinful nimbus]

I like it too its a good game

[fathom hill]

Since well she is life after all no?

[sinful nimbus]

But hating on it is funny especially when there's actually a lot to hate

[silk dirge]

something something no one cares when an airplane lands safely

[solemn hinge]

I quite like that, despite having the capacity to live as a normal bug, she can never truly make it past the nature of her creation

[lethal burrow]

well, the game says she's a "silk spun child"so you're gonna have to work with that phrasing if you want to do some mental gymnastics go for it

I'm curious to see what linguistic interpretation you can come up with

[fathom hill]

maybe after gms she can actually liberate herself from that

[solemn hinge]

Something something airplane does sick tricks in air and lands in a pile of gold and everyone cheers

[slow locust]

what are you talking about?

[stuck berry]

guys will see this and say hell yeah

[lethal burrow]

lease child debate again.

[solemn hinge]

People be haters or whatever

[sinful nimbus]

Something to note with Lacenet is that even if Lace wasn't a child it'd still be kinda icky because Lace would be dependent on Hornet to live

[silk dirge]

team cherry should give savage beastfly the "boeing" update where it falls out of the air

[flint wadi]

you really ought to start using tone indicators cause i cant read you for shit

[vestal swan]

If hornet lets her grow old or something sure, but if supplying her with silk means she stays the same she's going to forever be a child until she dies

[covert tusk]

So like obviously there’s some nasty shit going on with the flys being born slaves/jailers, the cruel underworks conditions, Greymour workers being hunted by Moorwing, the grueling conditions of Deep Docks, yata yata yata
But it’s crazy as shit I think they literally BRED a species to serve as their soldiers for ONE AREA

[stuck berry]

how i feel being able to dislike lacenet for TWO legitimate reasons

[stone herald]

I took child as initially made to be a child for GMS, like how everyone here is a child of their parents

[foggy fractal]

there's also the whole gms made her that way or smth with the silk heart dialogue right

[silk dirge]

hornet and lace sibling relationship gang rise up

[fathom hill]

I like lacenet and ill die on that hill

[warped badger]

maybe she can find a non silk husk

[lethal burrow]

I tried that once and then people made fun of me so

[warped badger]

we'll see in the Act 4 update coming soon

[dire lynx]

the weavers suck

[covert tusk]

Not like the flies where they took a pre existing species and made them slaves or stripped real people of their rights
No I mean CREATING A SPECIES to be soldiers

[stone herald]

Wait was this lace child thing shipping discourse

[lethal burrow]

They're bigger assholes in the pale king honestly

[solemn hinge]

I understand that you like the ship, and probably have since you knew Lace was a child, but you gotta let go, man

Or don’t idc

[silk dirge]

i mean same shit happened with vaultborn

[covert tusk]

I thought the weavers were betrayed by the citadel later on? Like why they’re all sealed around Pharloom

[solemn hinge]

I ain’t your mom

[sinful nimbus]

Letting go of Lacenet is hard 😔

[silk dirge]

these mfs are born specifically to read

[covert tusk]

The vault born are ALSO slave species?? 😭

[stuck berry]

shaknet is right there

[slow locust]

Do you think the knight not overdosing with lifeblood it's an oversight or because it is less vulnerable to it?

[dire lynx]

weavers made citadel to trap GMS, also invented the pilgrimage

[silk dirge]

yes

[fathom hill]

I'll just saty with my headcanons and not bother anyone else lmao

[sinful nimbus]

Look I'm just saying if SS was a romance plot with another girl you could:

A) Theme the game around devotion
B) Contrast the devotion of a relationship with the toxic devotion to the Citadel
C) Take advantage of queer and religious subtext for advanced social commentary and
D) Have Hornet and her partner kiss on top of the Citadel instead of facing off against another BORING higher being.

This would've been a far more interesting and personal direction for the story to take instead of recycling the concept of Higher Beings influencing mortal bugs

[silk dirge]

never cook again

[flint wadi]

its ok shanet is makes up for loss of lacenet tenfold

[sinful nimbus]

Homophobe

[vestal swan]

Not when you were right about it the whole time

[stuck berry]

why would it be an oversight vessels are entirely different from more organic beings

[sinful nimbus]

TRUE

[fathom hill]

Shakra Lace and hornet are in a throuple but yall aint ready for that conversation

[foggy fractal]

father of the flame x crawfather

[covert tusk]

DUDE SIDE NOTE BUT IT GETS ON MY NERVES HONESTLY
I fully get why the Pale King is dogged in he deserves to be held accountable and stuff, but how come I never see anyone talk about how Soul Master just did what he did but way worse and the Pale King tried to shut him down, like 😭

[silk dirge]

raaahhh i hate green princes i cant believe team cherry is woke

[solemn hinge]

Do Lace and Shakra even fucking meet

[fathom hill]

no

[slow locust]

Because you can have more lifeblood masks than what the screen can show and still nothing

[sinful nimbus]

Pale King didn't even do nothing wrong 💔

[silk dirge]

he wasnt as cool as unn

[foggy fractal]

but y'all ain't even playing the same game as me 💔

[silk dirge]

he didnt embrace the slug

[stone herald]

It's literally a vessel for the entire radiance, so it should be able to contain a little lightblood just fine

[stuck berry]

you mean that COWARD who when her people were infected did NOTHING

[dire lynx]

Fact checked and certified by me

[solemn hinge]

Ngl y’all lame as hell, I’m out

[silk dirge]

bc she was weakened

[covert tusk]

Wait like, the fly thingies or the actual vault keepers cuz I coulda swore the relic keeper NPC is the same species as or is similair to Cardinius, and Cardinius is similair to the vault keeper enemies

[sinful nimbus]

Unn couldn't even handle creating all of Greenpath that's like if PK expanded the minds of every bug in Hallownest and immediately fell into a coma

[silk dirge]

the tiny annoying fly enemies

[silk dirge]

counterpoint shes a slug so that doesnt matter

[fathom hill]

the thing is if tc didnt wants us to ship lacenet why is lace held in a bridal?? checkmate atheists

[sinful nimbus]

She isn't a slug 🤓

[covert tusk]

Alr yeah that makes sense Jesus Christ 💔

[dire lynx]

she tried to save the mosskin, Unn is not negligent of her childeren. She also didnt forsake them when they changed their attention to the radiance. UNN IS THE GOAT

[silk dirge]

the funny thing is they dont even grow up to be vaultkeepers they grow up to be the dudes that read 💔

[foggy fractal]

checkmate liberals 🐺

[sinful nimbus]

Red herring

[limpid summit]

PK’s beacon persists even after his death common PK upscale

[stuck berry]

how else would you hold her

[fathom hill]

potato bag

[stuck berry]

i would've held hornet like a big fat sack of moneyyy

[covert tusk]

They’re born to just be the nerd emoji and fact check the vault keepers that’s somehow worse than being like, a judge
You weee born to be a fucking nerd 💀

[stuck berry]

not hornet lace

[barren beacon]

Carry her like a sack of potatoes

[willow epoch]

nyleth and unn would make a nice little couple of forest moms

[flint wadi]

shakra hornet clears any dynamic lace and hornet have im actually fr

either way neither of them lasts

[barren beacon]

Or just use silk and keep her in a caccoon

[flint wadi]

theyre both gonna expire thats why hornet gave up on love

[barren beacon]

Yall think Shakra leaves Pharloom after Sister of Void?

I said Sharka 😭

[stone herald]

Probably

[sinful nimbus]

"Erm actually Weaver Atla was the Sixth of the First not the Fifth of the First" 🤓

[fathom hill]

if anything lacecould be immortal if hornet had infinite silk but weve talked about this before im sure

[dire lynx]

probably. her tribe would keep moving around, no?

[fathom hill]

Inifnite anything is not possible

[flint wadi]

i need the ballador IV silk image

[silk dirge]

if i was a lamp dude id just fly away and leave them in the dark so they cant read

[foggy fractal]

hey man not cool

[silk dirge]

also lamp dudes are also in the funny sound gang

[foggy fractal]

I need to read my scrolls

[silk dirge]

the way they go "ahhh"

[stone herald]

I mean, lace and hornet are definitely traveling or staying with each other but I don't ship them

[stone herald]

Title screen after the true ending, and the fact that lace has to to live

[teal finch]

lace would be the really annoying roommate just cause

[fathom hill]

yah

[dire lynx]

adoptive mother

[slow locust]

Why do you think herrah is so different from the other weavers? she doesn't have the same type of mask as the other weavers

[flint wadi]

hornet is gonna have a forever sister thats entirely dependant on her for survival cool

[dire lynx]

real answer: retcon

[slow locust]

was herrah even the queen of weavers before they moved to hallownest?

[stone herald]

Idk I was thinking sister

[dire lynx]

hornet is way more mature

[stone herald]

Little sister

[flint wadi]

or aunt i guess?

[stone herald]

along those lines, but definitely not mother

I still lean sister or cousin

[edgy barn]

I will always see Hornet and Lace relationship after the ending as a mentorship.

[dire lynx]

lace needs hornet to live

[fathom hill]

thing is we really dont get enough of lace to know her dynamic so who knows

[foggy fractal]

we have no in universe answer
only one outside, which is that TC never intended Herrah to be a weaver

[sinful nimbus]

Character design quirks like that aren't super uncommon

[flint wadi]

nah its probably companionship

[edgy barn]

Well yeah but I mean like, how they interat and see each other.

[fathom hill]

Rather than just lace being immature and hornet just looking past her bluff

[sinful nimbus]

I don't really think there's a lore reason for it (And as has already been pointed out Herrah wasn't originally going to be a Weaver)

[stone herald]

I take it as Lace putting up a front due to her assigned role in life, but not actually being a child mentally (kind of like THK)

[dire lynx]

i have a younger sibling who is half my age, its more like being a parent than the sibling relationship i have with my brother who is only two years younger

[fathom hill]

I agree but yknow

[vestal swan]

The game says otherwise three different times

[silk dirge]

you could just say like gms decided to evolve a drapemite for funsies or some shit

[edgy barn]

GMS felt funny tha day and decided to give this one pharlid a different shape when ascended.

[fathom hill]

explained thrice

[foggy fractal]

thank god it didn't reach 7

[silk dirge]

i dont drapemites are even arachnids but it would be silly

[stone herald]

Hollow knight was made to be hollow, but it wasn't

[fathom hill]

But again I dont like it, the canon is just dumb with it

[foggy fractal]

or else we would've have 😨 ... 6... 7...

[flint wadi]

the 7 lace child citations:

[fathom hill]

Since I feel like the parallel between the vessels and lace is tainted if we let these pale beings have what they want

[slow locust]

when did anyone said that??

[foggy fractal]

nah its just 3, but there were citations before

[fathom hill]

The vessels are not hollow, and lace is not just a husk made to act as a child

But again, explained thrice

[vestal swan]

The vessels do not really have a parallel to lace, the things inside of the vessels is what's controlling them not the child. The thing inside of them could be ancient beyond measure, the body itself is just of a child

[sinful nimbus]

Its both

[dire lynx]

a white tear slipped down all our legs

[flint wadi]

that was a reference i saw the image

[covert tusk]

Dude actually all of Silksong’s different forms of slavery makes me realize
Were these guys even slaves or just kinda paid less than most and given shitty jobs out of prejudice, cuz like, we KNOW what slavery looks like how thanks to gooooooodddd ol Pharloom 😭

[edgy barn]

Don't worry guys if Herrah can be retconned into a Weaver then Lace can be retconned into an adult in the next game.

[fathom hill]

Lace is defintely a parallel to the knight

[silk dirge]

penitent sixth of the seventh
guilty of the sin of brainrot
penance by constriction
absolution denied

[slow locust]

The vessels are creation of wyrm and void (also white lady but he doesnt matter) lace is entirely made of silk

[sinful nimbus]

Yes they weren't slaves

"Generally looked down upon" makes it sound like it wasn't even institutional

Ofc its still bad

[stone herald]

Iirc the bodies were root, so the vessel bodies were largely inherited from the white lady

[foggy fractal]

what the second part ? no one said that but its a fair assumption to make, theres the lore tablet saying herrah was a common beast, theres' herrah looking nothing like the weavers even now in silksong or was she ever mentioned or implied to be a weaver, same with Hornet we didn't know she was a weaver biologically till now

[edgy barn]

It's weird how this is written in present tense. Who is employing maggots in dead Hallownest?

[sinful nimbus]

Me

[silk dirge]

then why isnt the knight racist for killing the maggots around false knight double standards for women smh 💔

[foggy fractal]

of course TC hasn't said that "Herrah wasn't a weaver before we made her one for Silksong"

[sinful nimbus]

Gruzzers ain't gonna cook themselves

[covert tusk]

More racial prejudice than enforced labor from the state
PALE KING GOATED AS ALWAYS TOTALLY💯💯💯💯💯

[slow locust]

hornet is said to be a weaver and we know she's daughter of the wyrm so it's easy to assume herrah is a weaver

[fathom hill]

but tbf this one could be interpreted differently

[rapid fractal]

i gotta know how sh got so fat

[fathom hill]

since it could just mean spawn or daughter or whatever

but that damn caretaker i swear to god

[foggy fractal]

yes I know I'm saying she wasn't supposed to be a weaver in the first game and she's retroactively changed to be one now

[rapid fractal]

ooiiii

[stone herald]

Yeah, child there means a child, like all of us are a child of our parents, doesn't mean you stay as one forever

[covert tusk]

I can’t even make a joke cuz like yeah genuinely who 😭

[fathom hill]

ah yes this child is made of child

[flint wadi]

its not dead until that black egg is cracked smashed and liquified

[edgy barn]

The omniscient part of the journal entry for lost lace also calla her a void possesed child

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest was an inclusive kingdom

Pale King offered all species a place in his empire, unlike his daughter

[flint wadi]

my eternal kingdom...

[vestal swan]

Hornet took control of everybody equally in the bad ending

[sinful nimbus]

What about true ending

[quiet briar]

Communism

[slow locust]

Idk it seems to make no sense to have lore tablets say that she's not a weaver and then make hornet a weaver, also which one are you talking about?

[vestal swan]

Good ending she leaves it to rot

[silk dirge]

all trust president sherma

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet wasn't a weaver in the first game either

[covert tusk]

All get to be haunted under Hornet’s will
FOLLOWING BOTH FAMILY TRADITIONS AT ONCE ‼️‼️‼️

[foggy fractal]

so its a retcon, and if you're asking which lore tablet its one in the fungal wastes saying

This border bounds the twisting, scratching things.
Their dead sire, once of honoured caste.
Their sealed mother, but the common beast.
No peace with them we make.

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway why didn't PK scatter his soul all over the kingdom to haunt everyone and end racism on an individual level

[vestal swan]

Deepnest and mushroom tablets saying she is not of honored caste and a common beast

[sinful nimbus]

Seems kinda immoral

[foggy fractal]

yeah, PK wasn't based

[eternal roost]

[fathom hill]

lmao

[flint wadi]

he was stockpiling silk for that until weavers fled because they dont care about social justice

[foggy fractal]

btw we're not saying that she isn't a weaver during the the events of the first game but somehow is in the second one,
we're saying conceptually Herrah and Hornet weren't weavers when they made the first game, but TC changed things so they were always weavers @slow locust

[fathom hill]

tru

[stone herald]

Do you guys think GMS was just a weaker higher being than the radiance overall

[rapid fractal]

prolly idk tho

[stone herald]

I think so

[flint wadi]

idk shes pale shouldnt she be more powerful

[vestal swan]

Pale does not mean more powerful

[foggy fractal]

😔

[vestal swan]

She was bound and she just woke up

[stone herald]

I mean the pale king ultimately did not win vs the radiance

[fathom hill]

pale king couldnt defeat the radiance

[vestal swan]

He never thought to confront her personally or just never wanted to try

That's not a matter of power

[dire lynx]

radiance is like top three characters in the HK world, so yes

[sinful nimbus]

Radiance needed to be physically trapped and killed by another god to die, GMS got mid diffed by 4 mortals

[flint wadi]

she wasnt defeatable in a conventional sense

[sinful nimbus]

GMS's nature as a physical being just makes her a bit more.. fragile

[stone herald]

Radiance also seems to be a lot more primordial than GMS,which behs the question: what makes a higher being? How do they come about

[flint wadi]

damn apple doesnt fall far from the tree huh

[fathom hill]

sure bit it means that pale beings are not strong enough in thesmselves to defeat a being like the radiance so pale being more powerful ehh

[dire lynx]

it doesnt help she was barley out of a coma when we start beating her ass

[fathom hill]

Though maybe powerful in other means other than direct conflict

[foggy fractal]

it does help, makes the fight easier

[fathom hill]

like influence or something

[vestal swan]

She just lives in a different realm that's not really any indicator of age

[sinful nimbus]

I mean there's also the fact that she was sealed by her own mortal creations

[vestal swan]

I love that some of the old SS regulars are in lore now

[sinful nimbus]

Radiance's creations tried that and it backfired spectacularly

[stone herald]

I don't have citations, il be real, but radiance definitely feels a lot older, and considering her beef is with the void itself rather than some weavers

Radiance feels a lot older than GMS

[sinful nimbus]

Where are we getting the idea that she has beef with the void specifically instead of the vessels

[vestal swan]

Nothing suggests she's older, considering the weavers were in hollowness before radiance went nuts it suggests GMS started her bullshit first

[flint wadi]

essence dying with radiance is a weird concept i dont know how to feel about that

[stone herald]

Refers to it as "ANCIENT ENEMY"

[sinful nimbus]

When fighting a vessel

[foggy fractal]

ding ding

[silk dirge]

i feel like shes beefing with both

[foggy fractal]

(correct buzzer)

[sinful nimbus]

Nothing indicates she's talking about the entire substance

[fathom hill]

no more dreams or something

[silk dirge]

shes beefing with the knight and the void bc they represent eachother

[vestal swan]

That's something else I just realized I hate, the timeline got even more confusing and even fucking longer on both ends

[dire lynx]

relative to her life, the vessels arent that old. i dont think she would call them ancient

[fathom hill]

[stone herald]

The vessels aren't ANCIENT

[spark valve]

it doesn't die with her

[stone herald]

she wouldn't call the pale king an ancient enemy let alone the vessels

[spark valve]

yes they are

[flint wadi]

proof? give me a single instance of essence in silksong

[stone herald]

They're not pre-pale king ancient

[spark valve]

godseeker mode, the fact that things in silksong have minds

[stone herald]

And it's also the void itself that's struggling with her in her domain

[vestal swan]

Dreams and memories

[spark valve]

the multiple dream sequences in silksong

[frosty gate]

You can only see essence in HK because you have the Dream Nail

[flint wadi]

i dont see the catcher particles therefore its not there

[vestal swan]

You aren't holding an essence tool to be able to see them

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest is an ancient ruin that's been in shambles for "generations", "aeons", and "ages" with its old inhabitants being considered "ancient bugs"

[flint wadi]

false, ghost sees the particles when assaulted by dreamers in greenpath and resting grounds

[sinful nimbus]

Under the control of a vessel

[foggy fractal]

how bout you back up those quotes with an actual source BUD.

[flint wadi]

no dream nail there btw

[foggy fractal]

give me that MLA citation.

[frosty gate]

I mean, when you got 3 angels haunting you you are bound to see their energy

[sinful nimbus]

Ellina , Ze'mer, White Lady, Iselda

[foggy fractal]

ok brb

[fathom hill]

Im sure those are different things, these are called memories and not dreams

[stone herald]

Ancient enemy here very obviously refers to the void rather than the vessels, the vessels are the latest enemy of the radiance, not an Ancient enemy

Void united by a vessel, and coming in the form of the vessels, but the radiance isn't beefing with the vessels, it's with the void

[flint wadi]

mm nice reach

[spark valve]

memories are dreams

[sinful nimbus]

White Lady is the biggest one because she's talking about Radiance being pissed after being sealed for ages which indicates she herself believes it was a long time

[sinful nimbus]

Why are you assuming the void is her old enemy

That is completely baseless

Her only known conflicts are with the vessels

[frosty gate]

Idk, this has been here for years now and it seems to be very clear she means the void and not the vessels

[foggy fractal]

is aeons this one ? That Che's love would know her partner's heart even aeon past.

[sinful nimbus]

Wiki is fanmade

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[fathom hill]

watch the sources

[sinful nimbus]

Sources don't substantiate that

[stone herald]

The vessels are not ancient relative to the radiance, they're her most recent enemy

"ANCIENT ENEMY" refers to the her relationship with the void

[spark valve]

mfw the wiki can be wrong

[flint wadi]

the sources is just the ancient enemy line

[sinful nimbus]

They also aren't citing those sources they're citing the wiki

[rapid fractal]

idk the way void tendrels attack her seems like the void is mad

[sinful nimbus]

That's void under the will of the knight

[stone herald]

Do you need it to be "MY ANCIENT ENEMY THE VOID FROM HOLLOW KNIGHT"

[frosty gate]

Wikis usually put an "speculation" part if something is not sure, and again, I'm pretty sure the Ancient Enemy is the Void

[foggy fractal]

and four isn't related to the void part either lmao its about the thing earlier

"The folk of my tribe were born from a light. Light similar to Essence, similar to that powerful blade, though much brighter still. They were content to bask in that light and honoured it... for a time."

[sinful nimbus]

OK and I'm pretty sure its not

Do you see how that's not convincing at all

[spark valve]

neither of those indicate that line is about void

[flint wadi]

in context where it can refer to either ghost or void, yeah

[rapid fractal]

the radiance being so old aswell the vessels defo would not be ancient to her

[frosty gate]

Sure, like whatever, you think what you want

[vestal swan]

Wiki isn't any more official than us talking here, they just use quotes from the game

[sinful nimbus]

Says who

[frosty gate]

Vessels are children compared to Radiance

[silk dirge]

why cant it just be the radiance seeing the void and knight as one and hating them both

[spark valve]

but they are still ancient

[flint wadi]

either way void is primordial meanwhile radiance isnt even a god of essence

[covert tusk]

If we’re speaking on the Radiance, I still wonder why the PK just couldn’t fight her head on
Like not even if he was able to win or not, just the ability to attempt to kill her manually

[sinful nimbus]

White Lady indicates Radiance believes she's been sealed for a substantial amount of time and I'm more inclined to believe her over random speculation

[rapid fractal]

logic

[fathom hill]

wiki can have wrong interpretations, but thats why the sources are there

[sinful nimbus]

Very convincing

[spark valve]

the sources which don't support the claim being made

[silk dirge]

like whats so hard about just saying this and moving on

[willow epoch]

perhaps the ancient refers to the fact void is old, but not their enemy relationship

[sinful nimbus]

Because its being used to substantiate a completely baseless claim

[quick marten]

She is almost certainly referring to either the void or the pale king

[frosty gate]

What does it even matter which is the Enemy?

[fathom hill]

proving yourself right on the internet

[sinful nimbus]

There's no indication that the ancient enemy is the void but there is indication that she's had conflict with the vessels and their father in the past

Therefore the latter conclusions are more likely

[slow locust]

holy you're right there's absolutely no text in hk that refers herrah as a weaver 😭

[foggy fractal]

lmao...

[silk dirge]

i mean now that the knight is the void then it makes sense shes also hating the void but bc its synonymous with the knight to her

[frosty gate]

Yeah, but only the Father is Ancient

[willow epoch]

herrah is a weaver, no?

[silk dirge]

not bc she has some ancient beef with the void

[foggy fractal]

well its ok we know that she's a weaver now

[fathom hill]

but the vessels and the pale king are very recent to the story of hallownest if anything

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah which is different from the claim that Void is her primordial enemy

[fathom hill]

void is the only plausible explanation

[willow epoch]

have we considered the adjective in "ancient enemy" being in relation to the enemy's existence over time instead of the hatred being old

[rapid fractal]

void also just has beef with everything

[foggy fractal]

we're saying she wasn't conceptually one in hk, same with Hornet
not saying they're not weavers now, TC changed that so they have been aways weavers in the story

[willow epoch]

a tired transsexual is speaking out of their ass. listen and learn

[fathom hill]

But if it serves of anything this is clearly the dark vs light trope from the game but huhh

[fathom hill]

arent we all

[willow epoch]

makes sense

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest has been in ruin for a looooong time

Were the Vessel to break prematurely, that plague would
unleash with rage and power built of ages chained.

That Che's love would know her partner's heart even aeon past.

These trams sound like awfully advanced machines. Those ancient bugs must've been a clever lot.

With all other paths closed off for the generations following the calamity

[fathom hill]

this is the lore channel

[willow epoch]

True....

[sinful nimbus]

The first one is the most important because it indicates Radiance herself believes she's been sealed for a substantial amount of time "rage and power built of ages chained"

[fathom hill]

compared to the radiance though? compared to the lands and the other tribes there? very recently

[willow epoch]

how long ago was the kingdom alive if its work and population is referred to as "ancient"

[sinful nimbus]

We don't even know how old she is

[foggy fractal]

people are gonna say since its from WL its unreliable trust

[spark valve]

that doesn't matter

[rapid fractal]

hallownest has been in ruin longer than it was chilling

[fathom hill]

we dont but the tribes that worshipped her were before the pale king, who knows how many generations behind

[sinful nimbus]

Why does that mean she wouldn't consider vessels ancient

[spark valve]

she's calling it an ancient enemy not an 'older-than-me' enemy

[sinful nimbus]

They are far older than most other things

[rapid fractal]

who even carees anymor

[foggy fractal]

man after all this I'm gonna be ancient

hopefully not an enemy though !

[frosty gate]

She was there before Pk

[silk dirge]

silksong lore makes you age 10x faster

[fathom hill]

lmao ok

[sinful nimbus]

How old she is in comparison to PK is unknown

[foggy fractal]

yeah dude legit this probably got me growing a few white strands of hair

[sinful nimbus]

And irrelevant as Tammo pointed out

[willow epoch]

pk aint older than the void thats for sure

[rapid fractal]

she is older than the wyrms pk form

[frosty gate]

But she was in Hallownest before the Wyrm became the Pale King

[sinful nimbus]

So

[fathom hill]

nah

[willow epoch]

?

[fathom hill]

Hes very recent in perspective

[willow epoch]

ah yeah

[foggy fractal]

they're arguing that Radiance lived a hella long time before any of the pk and vessel stuff, so she wouldn't call vessels an ancient enemy because she's even more ancient

[frosty gate]

Why are we even debating this in SS, just go to HK lore

[sinful nimbus]

But she's not claiming vessels are as old or older than her

She's just saying they've been an enemy for a long time

[quick marten]

When I hear "ANCIENT ENEMY..." I think of the void since its the earliest possible enemy she could have out of the list of vessels, pale king and void. Obviously none of them are confirmed though since its meant to be interpreted by player

[fathom hill]

go see the bigger nerds

[sinful nimbus]

Void isn't indicated to have been in conflict with her before

Pale King and the vessels are

[foggy fractal]

just the vessels

[frosty gate]

They probably are basically

[foggy fractal]

yeah and pel kig

[quick marten]

Void is in conflict with every higher being according to silksong

[sinful nimbus]

...No

Where did you get that idea

[timber pond]

THe white Lady ssays so

[slow locust]

this is a bit of an stretch but i remember that the room where the seal of binding is in the weaver's den is called weaver princess room or smth like that

[rapid fractal]

void is just in conflict with everything ingeneral

[covert tusk]

Random but for the DLC I hope we see another Wyrm
Like not the PK, like just a different unrelated Wyrm

[covert tusk]

She says that about “our family”
Yknow
The family that produced the vessels 😭

[quick marten]

Yeah maybe this more accurate. But I remember hornet saying something about the void consuming pale beings at least

[granite hinge]

Isn't the shade lord a higher being?

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[quick marten]

We don't know tbh

I mean probably but what says it is

[sinful nimbus]

Lord of Shades is noted to have surpassed PK

[willow epoch]

a lower being geographically

[fathom hill]

Could be

[foggy fractal]

yeah bardoon says that tk has evolved farther than pk after voidheart

[fathom hill]

but a very recent one since

yknow

[timber pond]

The Everbloom Throws that into Question with it being "The Primordial light" And also The Pale Kings workshop table in hollow knight (when he was creating Moulds) saying "VOID Yours Is the Power Opposed"

And yaknow everbloom being tied to pale beings

[quick marten]

Well actually I think the knight might be higher being from the get go along with Hornet

[fathom hill]

the knight and hornet are not higher beings

[foggy fractal]

what does this have to do with every higher being though
what about the nightmare heart

[quick marten]

Hornet makes a clear distinction between herself and "mortal" bugs in silksong. Plus "higher beings these words are for you alone"

[foggy fractal]

what about Unn

[rapid fractal]

comin from the journal entry for void tendrils in ss horne t describes it as th void that will consume all things or something lik that

[fathom hill]

She does say she is not, but that could be since she a demigod (im sure she says something like half a bug, or mostly bug or something)

the vessels are another matter though since they are born from two higher beings

[timber pond]

Well if you dont consider Radiance a pale being, Then the "Grudge" to consume soul would extend to any Higher being

[quick marten]

Does higher being = God? Or are there multiple levels to higher beings like demigods which Hornet would be

[sinful nimbus]

This is like if elderbug described void as an ancient enemy though

[quick marten]

Hornet becomes a god in one of the endings also

[limpid summit]

Higher beings are beings that “exist above all others” that’s really the only metric we have
Regular TK and Hornet dont do that

[sinful nimbus]

Or if I described uranium as an ancient enemy

[rapid fractal]

what

[silk dirge]

ok uranium eater

[fathom hill]

Yes but that cuz of claiming a higher being

[silk dirge]

i know your kind

[quick marten]

I mean they kinda do. They don't age and are stronger than everyone else

[foggy fractal]

we know that void just latches onto soul but it has to be within its reach
its not like the nightmare heart would have beef with it unless tk in vgform or vgfocus started boxing with it or smth

btw star can you confirm that first line from me

[sinful nimbus]

Me when I see a polar bear and describe it as an ancient enemy because they kill humans or something

[quick marten]

And can turn into fully fledged "gods" in some endings. (Embrace the void and weaver queen)

[timber pond]

That metric Makes the ones who Hold the Hearts in act 3 capable of being Higher though. While Most of the Higher beings in HK can use essence in some way

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[foggy fractal]

thank you

[fathom hill]

now that i think about it the best ending in hk and the worst ending in ss its about both siblings becoming gods, but the implications are different in both

[silk dirge]

they can kill seals so yes theyre my ancient enemy

[fathom hill]

thats neat

well if we ignore the cursed ending id guess

[limpid summit]

Only maybe higher being of the hearts is Nyleth even then that’s iffy the others are powerful bugs on Hornet’s level not HBs

[timber pond]

True, but with The weird Shit White lady says and how the everbloom is portrayed as older than literally everything, There is some kind of Greek God ass origin myth we might be Missing here.

[foggy fractal]

and that's all speculation

[timber pond]

But the everbloom Is "the Primordial Light" that is not.

[foggy fractal]

we can't say that every higher being has beef with void unless shown otherwise and we just haven't yet

[foggy fractal]

I'm saying the second part

the "There is some kind of Greek God ass origin myth we might be Missing here."

[timber pond]

I would say the void and pale beings have some kind of origin connection at least.

If Everbloom and void are both Primordial oposites and pale beings can make them

[foggy fractal]

does WL even say the primodial light

[timber pond]

Then they share some origin

[sinful nimbus]

She says the first light

[silk dirge]

"first light"

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway Radiance isn't a pale being

[foggy fractal]

I could only find "Witness, the first light. The only means we possess to resist that void which our family is forever linked."

[timber pond]

Yea thats the line

[foggy fractal]

ok so first light

[timber pond]

Litteraly the first light

[fathom hill]

white lady dropping existencial lore to hornet outta nowhere

[foggy fractal]

ok so the "first light" has beef with the void what does that have to do with the other higher beings

[timber pond]

If white lady is refering to "Light" as like soul, or light, or creation. then it is Primoriddal is what i meant

[timber pond]

pale beings might be the first "higher beings" perhaps

Mabye all others are descendant

[quick marten]

Weird since the Radiance is the "god of light"

[timber pond]

Mabye theres a god of essence/the dream realm itself thats pale?

Since silk is the origin of all silk

[foggy fractal]

well ok but that's speculation territory so we can't just say void is confirmed to be in conflict with every higher being

[timber pond]

yeah but they are with the Pale beings.

and if the pale beings can just. make Everblooms

[quick marten]

Maybe, since Radiance is never called the god of dreams (I don't think anyways) than she probably didn't make the realm. As opposed to grimm explicitly being the nightmare god we know he owns that realm lol

[timber pond]

Which are "The First Light"

[timber pond]

Well im saying Essence itself, which Comprises dreams

So Whoever that pale being is Would

[foggy fractal]

we can't assume that every higher being comes from "The First Light" though

[timber pond]

Im not saying that , im saying pale beings might

[foggy fractal]

yeah sure

[timber pond]

And if pale beings are the "origin" of certain substances

[quick marten]

If their is a nightmare god maybe their could be a dream/essence god. The dream heart or something lol

[timber pond]

THen like hornet is a descendant of a pale being and weavers, Hgiher beings might be descendant of pale beings

[dusky matrix]

Regular higher beings like unn and the radiance seem to be able to create worshippers while pale beings like the pale king and grandmother silk demand worship

So there are different types of higher beings

[timber pond]

Well essence makes up the nightmare realm, so that god would be even above grimm

[quick marten]

I thought a lore thing said the two realms split. Isn't nightmare essence its own thing?

[edgy barn]

I don't think there is one tbh. Silk is a form of Soul that GMS can made, and she's the only one that can make it naturally. Essence by contrast is a much more universal thing, anything that has thoughts and memories can produce essence.

[quick marten]

I could be totally wrong

[frosty gate]

Why are we talking about Hbs again

[rapid fractal]

grimm would be the lucifer to the dream world god

[foggy fractal]

it started from if void is in conflict with every higher being

[timber pond]

BEcause the Everbloom is called "The First light" in the context of being like, An origin to life.

[dusky matrix]

Pale beings do have a strong connection to soul as kingsoul charm gives you infinite soul

[quick marten]

Is gms considered a pale being

[fathom hill]

academic curiosity

[dusky matrix]

Yes

[edgy barn]

Yeah, but every living being has Soul. It's not something unique to Pale Beings, they just so happen to have dominion over it.

[fathom hill]

at this point its just what defines the higher beings apart from pale and non pale

[foggy fractal]

I would say no until proven otherwise
we'll have to assume a lot of things

[limpid summit]

We still don’t know anything about DFs idk if first light means much

Ze’mer brought them from lands serene

[spark valve]

one of the hbs controls void it's not a categorical opposition

[limpid summit]

We get the DF and it just does the exact same thing without any additional lore 💔

[frosty gate]

Ok, so?

[dusky matrix]

Pale beings seem to have more soul though

[spark valve]

(Except it doesn't even do the same thing)

[covert tusk]

Void just seems naturally hostile, no matter who it is
Except The Knight/Siblings as shown by Sisters of The Void

[timber pond]

I would also Take that stance, But the Everbloom having insane focus and it being an origin Kind of has a butterfly effect where yo ugotta consider these things

[edgy barn]

I just go with the simple definition that Pale Beings:
1-Are White.
2-Have some degree of dominion over/association with Soul

[timber pond]

Everbloom is In Direct oposition to the Void as a natural property and is produced by pale beings in some way

[foggy fractal]

that's why I said proven otherwise I'm not saying it can't be the case, that's up to TC

[dire lynx]

yes

[foggy fractal]

sorry, its more so if every higher being besides tk has direct beef with the void

[frosty gate]

There is absolutely 0 evidence that it's produced by Pale Beings

[dusky matrix]

Somewhere it says void senses soul within and attacks so that would explain why pale beings don't like void

[fathom hill]

what is soul again, is it the fluid thing we see in hk? or like the soul of people

[limpid summit]

WL doesn’t have growth powers she nerfed the DF she saps plant life

[fathom hill]

cuz silk is not soul is it?

[limpid summit]

Traitor Mantises are devolved mantises

[fathom hill]

and gms is a pale being

[frosty gate]

Silk was implied at some point to have soul woven into it

[timber pond]

White Lady Has one in hornets memory and in hollow Knight she Explictly satets that the flower you get is "not from her"

[dusky matrix]

Hornets silk is her soul

[edgy barn]

Silk is Soul woven in the shape of a thread. This is told to us by the materium description as well as Seamstress

[fathom hill]

So its not like two different materials but maybe the same substance that takes different forms?

[timber pond]

Its like Copper Vs a Copper wire

[edgy barn]

The way I see it Silk is processed Soul

[frosty gate]

Having and producing is not the same.
Also, you don't get it from her in HK but you do in SS because you go into a Memory where WL wasn't even bound to her cocoon

[quick marten]

Silk is connected to soul. You can see it in the first sinner and pure vessel using the same kind of spell, one uses silk one uses soul.

I wonder if a weaver taught the pure vessel that or if the pale king learned it from Herrah or some shit

[dusky matrix]

Because silk is soul

[dusky matrix]

Weavers probably invented the seals too

[quick marten]

Damn now I wonder how involved the weavers were with the pale king

Since he got silk in his workshop too

[limpid summit]

He probably got silk with a trade deal

[dusky matrix]

The stag stations in deepest and next to the white palace have silk spools in them so probably very involved

The silk might even be used to make seals

[frosty gate]

It is theorized that they made the Binding for THK.
Aside from that, my personal theory is that they did NOT involve themselves deep with the Pale King

Which makes sense for many reasons

[quick marten]

The fact that its in the stag station makes me think team cherry may have actually already wrote that lore part before getting to silksong. Kinda cool honestly

[frosty gate]

Starting with the fact that they don't like him at all

[fathom hill]

the thing is the fragile flowers came from zemers land apparently so not enough knowledge of their origin

[timber pond]

"Not OF me"

[dusky matrix]

Says who

[edgy barn]

They may not like PK but they would like deepnest dying from the infection even less

[edgy barn]

Red Memory

[slow olive]

Im guessing weavers didn't like (or were wary of) the pale king because they didn't like gms

[timber pond]

White lady Confirms its the same thing

[dusky matrix]

The weavers are seperate from the original inhabitants of deepest

[frosty gate]

Which means they don't produce it

[fathom hill]

what is

[dusky matrix]

But the ln herra became the queen so they were probably there for a while

[quick marten]

I think the weavers went to deepnest specifically because they didn't want to escape gma just to be put under the rule of another god

[frosty gate]

Herrah was Weaver

[timber pond]

The Everblooms are all The same in property,but can come from diffrent places

[frosty gate]

And yeah, it wasn't mentioned in HK

But Herrah was Weaver

[spark valve]

no there's one origin that's known and that's the lands serene

[quick marten]

So they didn't really want to be involved with the pale king, but out of desperation helped him as the Radiance was a greater threat

[dusky matrix]

Not all of deepest is Weaver

[frosty gate]

But Herrah was

[frosty gate]

Pretty much

[fathom hill]

how do you interpret that from the quotes though, if anything all they are saying its that the everbloom didnt come from hallownest

[timber pond]

"Not OF ME" implies it is OF something or someone. And that flower cannot simply Grow out of nowhere as the plot of silksong dictates. So only the white Lady herself must be able to make them. The flowers Zemer Has are from elsewhere Produced by someone else.

[dusky matrix]

They did kill some people over a tram though

[fathom hill]

you saying that the "not of me" could mean that other pale beings like the white lady could produce the flowers?

[dusky matrix]

That was probably before the infection

[fathom hill]

like the same tree like pale beings

[timber pond]

her last two lines state its property and is proven by godhome.

[frosty gate]

I'm sorry but that is such a stretch.

[spark valve]

wl herself definitely didn't make them

[quick marten]

I'm thinking that was before the infection

[frosty gate]

It makes sense they do too, they came from Pharloom, escaping from a Pale Being who gave them false promises.

[spark valve]

she says she didn't make it how are you taking her saying she didn't make it as evidence that only she can make them

[quick marten]

When they had no reason to ally themselves with the pale king at all

[fathom hill]

I think its just her clarifying that even though she is plant like she didnt make that particular flower

[timber pond]

It Isnt when The rarity is in question and Pale Beings/ zemer are the only ones that we ever see have them. also It being "The First Light"

[fathom hill]

idk does the white lady make flowers even or foliage

she didnt make that flower and that (origin of everbloom)

[spark valve]

wl has them not because she made them but because one of her knights brought them

[fathom hill]

Not that the flowers are made by the pale beings

[frosty gate]

Yeah, we literally know Ze'Mer has stacks of them

[dusky matrix]

This stupid flour is making the lore ten times more confusing

[fathom hill]

flour

[dusky matrix]

Autocorrect

[quick marten]

Chef Lugoli is the key to all of it with his flour

[dusky matrix]

Pale bread

[frosty gate]

She's gonna make us a cake

[dusky matrix]

Eat the cake to become god

[fathom hill]

eat the flour

[dusky matrix]

Offer pale cake to the void to poison it and kill it

[frosty gate]

No Cake too Great

[dusky matrix]

Born of God and flour

[stuck berry]

you shall bake the dough that fills their tummies

[dusky matrix]

Next team cherry game

Hollow cake

[stuck berry]

we already have a cake

https://tenor.com/view/lugoli-gif-12776754665265756599

[fathom hill]

next tc game will be hungry knight trust

[timber pond]

No its just going to be the name of the DLC Fleagame Thats an eating Contest

[dusky matrix]

They have been planning this from the start

[fathom hill]

will be like hungry flea or some shit

[sinful nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-chef-chef-lugoli-disgraced-chef-lugoli-silksong-headturn-gif-12766372659914900581

[stuck berry]

peng what are your third game protag candidates

[elder rune]

Btw Lugoli/Ass Jim is nonbinary & that you should kiss them for their exquisite dishes

[muted lantern]

lugioli ate my liver

[stuck berry]

nonbinary people are evil cannibals got it

[elder rune]

No cost too great

[elder rune]

That or they’re beings made up of void or robots

[stuck berry]

so evil cannibals

[sinful nimbus]

Great Knight RTS

[muted lantern]

yes they eated me

this is why i am a ghost

[dusk kraken]

Hi, is there any special interaction with sister splinters corpse after it starts regrowing a sprout? I only noticed this after talking with nuu that it was there but destroyed it and unique to it, it never appeared again does nuu place them on other corpses or was that just sister splinters attempt at regrowing itself and shouldn't have been to deeply looked into

[fathom hill]

crazy lore

[muted lantern]

not that im aware of

only recently learned about the nuu encounter there

[stuck berry]

the only thing that happens after is nuu coming

[stuck berry]

ah ah

[muted lantern]

ah ah

[quick marten]

Muu Ooshanuu

Thats what she says anyone have a translation

[elder rune]

Ass Jim penumbra’d you into phantasm

[muted lantern]

very tragic

[sinful nimbus]

You could do a hungry knight successor with lace by the way

[muted lantern]

this is why i should be referred to in the past tense

[sinful nimbus]

She constantly needs silk to be sustained

[quick marten]

https://tenor.com/view/penumbra-mitsuru-kuroiwa-judgment-sad-the-mole-gif-3410211253281638266

[stuck berry]

that's defenestration

[muted lantern]

do you think chuds will call silksong woke or will they be unable to register any of the themes of the game

[foggy fractal]

what does rts stand for

[fathom hill]

they called hk woke im sure no?

[muted lantern]

rotund tarantula stance

[fathom hill]

chuds cant read though so not sure

[stuck berry]

everything about the green prince is optional so

[stuck berry]

ringle tingle single

[muted lantern]

true

[stuck berry]

||real time strategy||

[fathom hill]

one chud i talked to thought green princes partner was a woman lmao

[stuck berry]

||advance wars older fire emblem and such||

[stuck berry]

not me mishearing one of the cogwork dancers as a woman

[fathom hill]

well he wasnt a chud but he was weird abt trans people

[muted lantern]

chuds cant read theory proven again

[fathom hill]

must have been the wind

[silk dirge]

i cant believe team cherry added enby ass to silksong literally unplayable wtf

[quick marten]

Its too vague with its story for that. Elden ring has gay characters and stuff but no one calls it woke

[muted lantern]

i've seen people call it woke

[dusky matrix]

Gay clanker = woman

[muted lantern]

I got ass crushed by the woke mob

[stuck berry]

as far as i'm concerened all marriage is gay

[quick marten]

Fr? Damn

[dusky matrix]

Hornet is a woman therefore woke

[fathom hill]

not woke because gay men, woke cuz strong female lesbian protagonist

[muted lantern]

then again literally everything ever is called woke because it's a buzzword

[dusky matrix]

Woke

[stuck berry]

they made hollow knight wear a dress!

[quick marten]

Tbh all the souls games are kind of woke

They be hating on organized religion big time

[dusky matrix]

Dying is woke

[foggy fractal]

yeah TC IS WOKE RAGHHHHHHH

[fathom hill]

no way

[muted lantern]

most art would be considered such considering the nature of art

[fathom hill]

cue that one old ass comic

[foggy fractal]

is this woke

[stuck berry]

well he's not asleep is he

[muted lantern]

yes

[fathom hill]

only found it in russian dunno how else to search it up

[dusky matrix]

I think Hornet is homophobic she killed the gays for no reason

[foggy fractal]

he could be

[muted lantern]

I remember once someone in this chat said that ghost had a masculine appearance.

which is the most insane thing anyone has ever said

[fathom hill]

yes

[quick marten]

Hornet hates the gays 💔

[dusky matrix]

Gigachad

[stuck berry]

blue is boy

[fathom hill]

why tf am i having trouble with replying is my brain damage

[elder rune]

Little Ghost is literally just a vaguely humanoid void being lmao

[fathom hill]

right lmao

I think i saw it too

[muted lantern]

i know, the take was genuinely unfathomable, i think i replied to it with just an image of ghost lol

[fathom hill]

i mean i sometimes use he but im sure the knight or the vessels dont mind

[elder rune]

The Vessels likely care little about gender or what other bugs refer them as.

[fathom hill]

that bit of lore always bugged me for some reason, if the vessels are indeed not hollow and have wills and whatnot how is that all of them are genderless

[foggy fractal]

😭 man why is sherma almost as big as elderbug this is fucked

[quick marten]

They literally do not have sex organs I think

[foggy fractal]

from this post btw https://www.reddit.com/r/HollowKnight/comments/1nuc2p0/full_size_comparison_between_silksong_and_hollow/

[muted lantern]

they went into the void that makes you nonbinary

[coral wren]

I like how both lace songs are done with only strings

[elder rune]

But Ghost is not in anyway masculine looking lol

[fathom hill]

sex is not gender

[quick marten]

They have void innards

[slow olive]

Im guessing them being genderless comes from the fact that they're half void

[fathom hill]

Oh shit gotcha

[slow olive]

Or are they fully void i forgot

[fathom hill]

yah im sure they dont mind

[elder rune]

Maybe Sherma will grow up to be the same size as Mighty Hegemol or the Nailmasters?

[quick marten]

Well I suppose they could take on a gender identity but none of them seem to really

They aren't hollow but they are still pretty cold

[dusky matrix]

Lost lace is temporarily non-binary

[coral wren]

I don't think the knight has any of those organs so he wouldn't have a gender

[quick marten]

So they don't really take on much of personalities/identities

[fathom hill]

transtrender smh my head

[fathom hill]

yeah thats my issue, since tc did say they were all genderless which is like opposite of what id expect from bugs that do have wills, personalities and arent hollow

[muted lantern]

also considering hornet being the gendered child is such a significant thing enough to name her it might imply wyrm children are typically genderless and take on one later in life

[fathom hill]

but yeah id guess since void not much opportunity to actually explore these

which means that for bugs gender is totally societal

[fathom hill]

yah could be

[coral wren]

So green prince can get pregnant?

[fathom hill]

But also thats cuz she dont have any other siblings

[muted lantern]

if you believe in yourself anything is possible

[quick marten]

Maybe I guess but she is literally the only of the pale kings children to be gendered.

[fathom hill]

im sure they would have already

if that was the case

[muted lantern]

yeah but the other kids arent really known about by the wider public

[dusky matrix]

Void makes you gay that's why hornet hates it

[coral wren]

My theory is that one or maybe all the mantis lords are green princes sons

[fathom hill]

but she is lesbian tho

[muted lantern]

is green prince a mantis?

[coral wren]

I think so

[elder rune]

That’s actually a pretty cool HC, that the Mantis’s are the descendants of the Verdanians.

[fathom hill]

hornet does not strike me as the one to hate herself

[sinful nimbus]

How could she not

[elder rune]

They just wanna live a simple, quiet life, one in which they hunt fungi & the Horrors™️ of Deepnest.

[quick marten]

They can become very green

[sinful nimbus]

She's inherently evil

[quick marten]

As we see in queens gardens

[sinful nimbus]

Spawn of weaver and wyrm

[quick marten]

Idk if she's evil inherently lol especially from what we see in game

[fathom hill]

this is bait but the whole point of the game its that we can forge our destiny outside of the circumstances of our creation or birth so

[quick marten]

Shes quite nice really

[fathom hill]

id say hornet is actually trying her best

[coral wren]

I heard there was this family that did a lot of incest and they eventually turned blue, so maybe green princes lover is related, thats why the HK mantises are blue

[elder rune]

Do you think Herrah had a fling with Vespa? ‘Cus I imagine that may be why Hornet trained under her instead of the Knights of Hallownest.

[sinful nimbus]

Unless you're a fly ofc

[fathom hill]

and we should all be thankful for her since she is nice and amazing yeah ok

i like hornet she is cool

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet's evil tendencies are like actually genetic though

[fathom hill]

yah what is without a minor racism moment

[stuck berry]

in every interaction pertaining to void in act 3 she's like "yeahhh i might've done something to do with it but i'm trying to fix it 🥺 "

[fathom hill]

im sure shell outgrow it in another 1000 years

[quick marten]

I think its cause the hive used to be connected to deepnest

[fathom hill]

what is this supposed to mean scoundrel

sorry that was mean

[stuck berry]

she hates herself for that particular act

[quick marten]

Tbh what was the hive even doing during the infection anyways. Hornet training under Vespa implies some connection lol but like what do they even do

[stuck berry]

so to speak

[fathom hill]

idk if hating herself though, she shows remorse

[stuck berry]

you're forgiven knave

[stuck berry]

nothing they kinda just fell to it

[fathom hill]

obviously but hating oneself is a strong implication

[stuck berry]

eh maybe guilt moreso

[elder rune]

Yeah, the Hive was connected with Deepnest, but I’m wondering if Herrah had a fling with Vespa due to this connection or if the fling resulted in Deepnest and the Hive having good relations due to the power of bug yuri? Or perhaps they didn’t have a fling and Herrah just decided that Hornet should train under Vespa?

[fathom hill]

yah yah

[fathom hill]

wait you may be cooking

was hollow knight about bug yuri all along?

[coral wren]

Theres also explicit yaio in silksong

[quick marten]

I kind of doubt they had a fling lol but yeah Vespa had to have had some connection to either Herrah or the Pale king

[fathom hill]

Its was not about the implication of freedom, motherhood and destiny but rather strong sesbian lex???

[muted lantern]

i am generally a fan of the herrah and vespa were a thing headcanon. it would give a good explanation for why herrah would send her daughter to the bees

[elder rune]

Perhaps Herrah loves fluffy bugs too?

[quick marten]

Not like herrah was probably there for much of Hornets training cause you know

[coral wren]

Weren't it said somewhere that the bees were like the best warriors in hallonest?

So thats why hornet was sent to train there
Or am i capping

[fathom hill]

fun thought

[timber pond]

Thinking About it now, its kind of wierd that Steel Seer Zi has NO Act 3 diolouge

[elder rune]

Would explain why the Hive Knight & those giant bees kicked my ass so hard during my first playthrough

[quick marten]

Yeah probably them or the mantises

Who were so combat proficient the pale king went for peace with them

And the infection can't get them unless they actively accept it like the traitors

The mantises are op asf now that I think about it got damn

[elder rune]

Also helped out in keeping Deepnest’s horrors away.

[molten python]

Because they have a strong will.

[quick marten]

I wonder if the mantises are originally from hallownest or travelled there like the weavers

[raw pewter]

I think they were the natives of Hallownest, or at the very least came to Hallownest and settle there long before the Pale King arrival

[fathom hill]

im sure they are autochthonous

[molten python]

The Mantis Tribe lived there even before the Kingdom of Hallownest was founded.

[quick marten]

They just been chilling during all the different higher beings reins

They dgaf lol

[elder rune]

Yea, while the idea of the Mantis Tribe being descendants of Verdania would be cool, it’s more likely that the Mantises are kinda just their own group without trauma from Pharloom’s Citadel.

Yeah Mantises be chilling outside of the Traitors just being arses.

[raw pewter]

Yeah their whole thing is doing their own thing and don't meddle with the Pale King

All they do is stop Deepnest's bugs from getting out

[coral wren]

Maybe green prince is millennia of years old

[molten python]

Wanderers seeking death, welcome. May you find swift end upon our claws.

[fathom hill]

plausible

[quick marten]

He genuinely should be old asf

[fathom hill]

but bug years are weird

[coral wren]

Im pulling things out of my ass to make my yaio mpreg green prince theory work

[fathom hill]

is there any reason why he looks that young? is this more fuel for the green prince imagined it all theory

he is not a higher being nor a construct so weird

[raw pewter]

It really is weird, we do know that some powerful bugs at least live longer than normal bugs, as we can see from Karmelita and Green Prince still being alive

[teal drift]

I think the timeline takes place over a max of two weeks

[quick marten]

I guess he just aged well. Crazy especially when you consider Karmelita in the future, the only other alive heart

[raw pewter]

There's also the Mantis Lords, they should also be old as fuck, but they still look relatively young

[fathom hill]

maybe mantis genes just make you like that

[teal drift]

I imagine the bearers of the hearts age slower because they're powerful

[slow locust]

What are we talking about now?

[teal drift]

they have come to possess an ancient power, they age slower as a result

[fathom hill]

green prince looks young

[raw pewter]

Could also be that Karmelita is wayyy older than Green Prince, maybe the Skarr was there longer than Verdania

[fathom hill]

why if so old man yaoi

[quick marten]

Karmelita has certainly aged though compared to the green prince travelling all around pharloom

[teal drift]

imo Karmelita is reallllly freaking old

[fathom hill]

weird since verdania just kind of vanished from the map, to the point its considered a myth no?

[teal drift]

Verdania fell during the citadel era, at a time where architects exist. I think the wars with Karmelita happened all the way back when GMS and the Weavers came upon Pharloom?

[raw pewter]

I think it got vanished from the map because of the Citadel right? My lore knowledge about that area is fuzzy, so I don't know whether it is intentional that the Citadel just wiped out Verdania

[teal drift]

Verdania being wholly lost hides the fact that imo it was actually the last to fall, of the other kingdoms led by the hearts.

[quick marten]

Probably right. Gms probably went to war against all the opposing factions near the founding of the citadel. Meanwhile Lost Verdania may have faded away much later

[teal drift]

The thing that separates Verdania is not that it was lost long ago, but that it was lost completely. No bigass coral tower or race of people left behind.

[elder rune]

Maybe it’s because she’s a mother and also has to take care of the Far Fields, meanwhile the Green Prince just spent his time chilling inside a cage while his kingdom is too busy being dead to take care of it.

[teal drift]

I do think GP ages slowly and has been in that cage for a long time

[molten python]

Didn't the Green Prince 2 sacrifice himself to save Verdania from the Sittydel?

[teal drift]

from my understanding, Verdania was in crisis, and the clockwork dancers were an attempt to buy some sort of aid. It did not work.

[quick marten]

Those citadel dogs don't honor any promises

[raw pewter]

They did, but after buying some time the Citadel could go back against their word and do what the Citadel do, but Verdania could also faded beause of time

[molten python]

"The dancers… they were the last free act of my partner ... His whole he gave, in desperate trade to see our own caves left safe. His shell and soul became the mould."

[teal drift]

We're not sure the problems facing verdania were caused by the citadel, just that the citadel failed to do anything about them. It's possible if it was pollution then the citadel 100% caused the problems

[molten python]

This is all we have heard about the end of Verdania:
"Pharloom's end approaches, but my caves, these caves, fell to fate long before. Of that fair land, I am the last..."

[teal drift]

Imo Verdania was either in an environmental (stuff dying) or a political (war with the citadel) crisis, and I lean towards the environmental based on the complete lack of Verdania left.

either way the citadel left them to die

[raw pewter]

I see.... So maybe the Citadel didn't have anything to do with Verdania downfall, still Citadel could have done a lot more to safe Verdania, which they didn't

Considering you know, one of the Prince literally gave his body to become the Cogwork Dancers

[molten python]

We do know the Sittydel is responsible for Bilewater downfall. 😔

At least we got a good area out of it.

[quick marten]

Glory to Groal the Great

[teal drift]

if it fell for environmental reasons, the citadel probably was responsible for the pollution. If it fell for political reasons, I'd put money on the citadel being the aggressor.

so either way i think the citadel caused the crisis and then failed to do anything about it even when gifted a gift that begged them to come help.

[raw pewter]

Definitely because of Pollution, Verdania is right beside Greymoor, and I think it's called "Grey" because of the pollution

[teal drift]

its also underneath the bile area

[raw pewter]

Mhm, also connected to Sinner's Road, from Sinner's Road to Exhaust Organ where Phantom is

[stuck berry]

remember greymoor also used to be green if the now isolated wisp thicket is anything to go by

repurposed into 1800s london

[raw pewter]

London Bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down

[teal drift]

citadel drained da oceans, killed the grass, poisoned the swamps

and also there's a gigantic pile of corpses

[raw pewter]

Whiteward am I right?

[teal drift]

what is up with the marrow tbh when was that established

[raw pewter]

Oh you're talking about the Marrow

[stuck berry]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-mad-meme-plague-he-poisoned-water-supply-burnt-our-crops-and-deliver-gif-10420279

[teal drift]

whiteward was a class act. Best doctors there ever.

[stuck berry]

that's just a bunch of corpses of pilgrims

[quick marten]

Did gms straight up genocide a fuck ton of giant bugs to make a foundation for her big city

[teal drift]

but like... damn das a lotta pilgrims

[raw pewter]

I think the Marrow is just some ancient place built by the bones of ancient bugs and fallen pilgrims, nothing more to it than that

[fathom hill]

do bugs have bones

[teal drift]

yeah ig the catacombs equivalent

[raw pewter]

They have shells

Which is the equivalent to bones

[quick marten]

They have bones in these games

[raw pewter]

Exoskeleton and such

[teal drift]

what's the moss grotto lore tbh

[stuck berry]

there once was moss

[raw pewter]

A lot of moss

[fathom hill]

that reminds me about how they scrapped the bones area for hk cuz they realized in production bugs no have bones

[teal drift]

could moss grotto be a result of shellwood greenery dripping down the crevasse^TM

[fathom hill]

does this mean that team cherry just saw that said fuck it we can do what we want and just gave bugs bones

[stuck berry]

we really don't see a lot of water in pharloom huh

[teal drift]

citadel drank it all 🙂

[quick marten]

There are scrapped hollow knight areas in silksong like the bone area and the extended void area

[stuck berry]

just muck bilewater shakra's master's grave and fleatopia

[quick marten]

Not sure if others as well

[fathom hill]

the water place is dry now

[stuck berry]

true!

[fathom hill]

the choral thing area

[quick marten]

Is the water in greymoor sinking from the bilewater

[teal drift]

how tf did that get drained even

[fathom hill]

but water is leaking out so maybe for water in the future?

[stuck berry]

dunno what else it would be

[fathom hill]

they had to cool the ai servers for the automatons

[raw pewter]

Global Warming?

[stuck berry]

the first bug in the city of tears/greymoor watching the first water droplets from the blue lake/stilwater fall from above

[teal drift]

glorious pharloom doesn't need AI—it simply shoves the souls of bugs into robots.

[stuck berry]

https://tenor.com/view/worried-scared-oh-no-stop-it-fearful-gif-12534009

[fathom hill]

truly the most ethical option

[quick marten]

I wonder when the city of tears started getting rained on

[raw pewter]

Which honestly, a lot better than regular ai

[quick marten]

No way they built it their with it leaking

[fathom hill]

pale king used void for his automatons too

[stuck berry]

i like to think after the infection started to be a thing

[raw pewter]

At least with that way we got our glorious Goat Second Sentienl

[quick marten]

Unless they wanted it purely for the aura it would give the city

[fathom hill]

what was it called before

[stuck berry]

some good drama in there of a king realizing his kingdom is fucked just as his beautiful city starts to rain

[fathom hill]

city of rains put that one tumblr post abt hornet being an edgy oc

[raw pewter]

City of Here
-# Not very funny I know

[fathom hill]

something something half goddess half spider that lives in the city of tears

[stuck berry]

among us among us among us among us among us

[fathom hill]

understandable

[quick marten]

Also city of tears sewage system is ass

[raw pewter]

So many flukes in them sewers

[fathom hill]

lmao

[quick marten]

The city is flooding big time and the sewers are only like 1/4 full at most

Water is NOT getting in there

[stuck berry]

fym lmao i'm picturing it and it's bleak and sad

[fathom hill]

lmao

[molten python]

No because if they made the sewers full how would the Knight explore the waterways? I think making the sewers like this was intentional.

[fathom hill]

just the overtly dramatics of it makes me haha

also i like anything ironic that happens to the pale king

[raw pewter]

I mean the water did get drained to Mushroom Place

[quick marten]

I don't mean team cherry I mean the hallownest engineers

[quick marten]

You right actually

[fathom hill]

city

[quick marten]

My fault hallownest never let me slander your great minds again

[fathom hill]

the animation??

[raw pewter]

Yeah come on, the Pale King is the greatest ruler there ever is
-# Ignore the child genocide thing

[fathom hill]

he was desperate ok!! he is totally justified and not a bad person

[molten python]

Yeah, they worked under the Pale King. The Pale King was against the infection so it would make sense if he ordered them to make the sewers like this.

[fathom hill]

something something he was a bad father but good ruler or something

[quick marten]

Well he was a better ruler than gms at least 😂 her ass was out for blood at all times lmao