sk-lore

[fathom hill]

yah to the caretaker, she says that she feels the instinct to claim into gms up there or something

[frosty gate]

We don't know if he created the tribe.
The other things are not HB exclusive

[limpid summit]

He did create the tribe

[fathom hill]

which like fair but she is referencing her wyrm instincts

[limpid summit]

“Spawn of self, their minds unite”

[glad slate]

if executed in game with code changes the ending procs with gms grabbing hornet at the end of the fight so

[stuck berry]

what does that line even mean

[limpid summit]

Oh neat

Self is Mr Mushroom

[frosty gate]

Is that what it means?

[fathom hill]

the shroom tribe are his children

[limpid summit]

Mr Mushroom’s spawn, united in a hive mind

[fathom hill]

Since the line before they mention him, spawn of self by correlation

[stuck berry]

i don't see how self refers to him specifically

[glad slate]

wait is mr mushroom a hb of the fungal wastes then?

[stuck berry]

maybe i'm just dense

[fathom hill]

their minds unite is refrencing the tribe itself, since they do have a united mind

[limpid summit]

But it’s not his hive mind cause he isn’t infected

[glad slate]

i thought that secret large dead mushroom in fungal was like the ruler before the infection

[fathom hill]

see the whole quote

The quote alone doesnt have the correlation

[glad slate]

this thing

[limpid summit]

We don’t know what’s up with the Fungal Core shroom actually

It might have been like a smarter sentient shroom

It does have important DN dialogue but like there’s nothing else about it

[glad slate]

it's a lil strange

[frosty gate]

That's even weirder cus aren't the Mushrooms infected?

[limpid summit]

Anyway

Mr Mushroom

[limpid summit]

Yeah i mean all he is is a herald

[glad slate]

yeah they are shown to be infected

[limpid summit]

It’s not his job to protect his kids

[fathom hill]

maybe easier to spread if minds are united

[glad slate]

they also drop infected particles upon death

[fathom hill]

infect one you infected all others

[stuck berry]

every game or show or book with deep lore should have the one character who we don't know what the hell his deal is but he's there

[glad slate]

i think mr mushroom's mind is just strong enough since he's unique

or he's a running gag

[frosty gate]

Never said it is, but if Mr Mushroom is in a hive mind with them wouldn't he be fighting the Infection 24/7

[limpid summit]

He’s probably not directly part of the hivemind

[glad slate]

which thinking he's just a running gag is lame

[limpid summit]

“Their” minds unite

[frosty gate]

I vote for this just because he's too much of a vague character to draw any conclusion out of him

[fathom hill]

he is a genuine character since he mentions past events but he is also team cherry in the game, since he references stuff outside of hk

[limpid summit]

Metawise mr mushroom is a joke character but like in the context of HK it’s fun to analyze him cause he’s powerful (and canonically it’s not like he knows about hungry knight and stuff)
Hornet does take him seriously anyway

[frosty gate]

Then who the hell is he talking to

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-voices-in-my-head-voices-cat-gif-23453583

[fathom hill]

So im not sure if gag, he is funny and his origin is also mildly funny but he is kind of a genuine character, specially after his talk with hornet

[glad slate]

why DOES he talk to the knight lol

[stuck berry]

you the player

[limpid summit]

Who knows lol

Maybe he’s having multiple conversations at once

[glad slate]

I mean in HK he just seemed insane

[fathom hill]

maybe he is a third dimensional character talking to us

[limpid summit]

He’s the same old dude

Hornet just knows about him and can talk back

[frosty gate]

No, he's most definitely having conversations with other people

[stray fog]

I want to say that team cherry just typed random bullshit in mr mushroom's dialogue to mess with us

But that would be boring

[stuck berry]

he references tomb cat hungry knight and (what i think might be) celeste so it's possible he's not even from the hk universe

[muted lantern]

who would win: kratt or a thermonuclear missile?

[frosty gate]

Hopefully the Missile

[fathom hill]

yeah but he is talking to many people

Like the dude from castlevania

[limpid summit]

I mean like we aren’t canon and other TC games aren’t canon

[muted lantern]

im canon

[limpid summit]

So there’s canon explanations for his awareness as well as meta ones

[limpid summit]

Okay you’re canon but no one else

[muted lantern]

thank you

its important to be recognized for my canonicity

[fathom hill]

also the hungry knight ref its talking to the knight obviously

[stuck berry]

i feel like if i'd played more games i'd know what this is talking about

[fathom hill]

congrats on the baby

[muted lantern]

i take pride in my role as savage beastfly

[stray fog]

Fuck you

[muted lantern]

the second one

[fathom hill]

right?? thats why im looking for more people to actually analyze these

[frosty gate]

I played a lot, I have no idea

[fathom hill]

Im either too dumb or just unknowledgeable

or both

[limpid summit]

I don’t think it has to be a reference to anything

Or it’s some inside joke only TC gets

[quartz salmon]

bloodborne?

[muted lantern]

you're welcome

[fathom hill]

this is a reference to castlevania apparently

[quartz salmon]

ohhhh right that makes sense actually

[stray fog]

The TC members said that they rarely use the internet, so I don't think they would be referencing so many games

[limpid summit]

The only defining thing we really get about higher beings is that they “exist above all others”
Technically this is a textbook quality of Mr Mushroom lol

[stuck berry]

which castlevania game plot could this be about

[fathom hill]

but some are not yet revealed what could it be

[frosty gate]

There's little to analyze, he seems to be talking to different people at once. So maybe he is part of a Hive Mind and there are others like him talking to other people. Maybe somewhere else someone is listening to him talk to Hornet

[glad slate]

okay but the real question is would the abyss realistically be just as terrifying in hk as in ss or is there a reason the abyss wasn’t as terrifying in hk, (aside from tc’s kickstarters not being met)

[muted lantern]

i mean they can play games and not engage with the community, they clearly put a darkest dungeon reference in the game

[stuck berry]

you don't need to be chronically online to play super meat boy

[fathom hill]

symphony of the night i saw a reddit post abt it since i havent played the game

[stuck berry]

probably because we're seeing it from the knight's perspective who it's more familiar with compared to hornet

[fathom hill]

These are clear references though, would be weird to have three references and then all gibberish

Team cherry is really good at hiding stuff, and this is pretty clear cut

Does it really matter for the hk lore? maybe not but i like it

[frosty gate]

Pale King made a whole base of operations down there

[midnight reef]

he references Silksong in Hollow Knight ;3

least, references the early ideas that became Silksong

[fathom hill]

does he now?

[midnight reef]

pretty sure

[fathom hill]

which ones pls im curious

[glad slate]

so would those sucking leeches and dinosaur ass bugs have likely just been eradicated prior to the operations if they existed in hk 🤔

[midnight reef]

First sentence in the final encounter

[fathom hill]

first is ref to hungry knight, third is reference to tomb cat

[fathom hill]

I can see it thats fun

[frosty gate]

They probably cleaned PK's area free of thingies.

[stuck berry]

i can vaguely see it but this could mean anything

[edgy nebula]

my guess is the leeches got destroyed by the sheer amount of baby corpses

[fathom hill]

This could apply to so many games, even hk itself if anything

[midnight reef]

Or they just didnt live in the abyss under Hallownest

[fathom hill]

but yeah i can kind of see it, its fun

[stuck berry]

determination...

i can't believe chara would make mister mushroom be the herald for change in a kingdom

[glad slate]

Though ss dials down the abyss lore ITSELF more in exchange for enemies… we didn’t get expanded lore on like, the abyss kingdom that potentially existed at a point. Or like that bug you get shade cloak from in hk. Though there is a random arcane egg in ss so

[frosty gate]

https://tenor.com/view/determination-determination-intensifies-intensifies-gif-5019644

[glad slate]

abyss lore not counting the obvious void lore

[frosty gate]

The Abyss in Pharloom is also not as deep as the one in Hallownest, so that might be it

[stray fog]

How do we know that

[glad slate]

Wait does this imply the core of the earth equivalent planet the bugs live on is void

a mix of void and magma

[fathom hill]

surface level from the top of the citadel compared to dirtmouth?

[stuck berry]

i think the hkplanet might be flat because the distance between void and "surface" in both games is different

[glad slate]

🥹

[fathom hill]

assuming that the surface has the same sea level something thing

[stuck berry]

why is there nothing like magma or lava in the ancient basin that makes no sense to me

[stray fog]

Oh

[fathom hill]

sea level is not the word

[glad slate]

hallownest is much higher ground level

We can assume probably

[frosty gate]

The Abyss in HK reaches the ancient civ and a lot of hidden things. Pharloom's seems to be barely explored

[stuck berry]

then why if you line up the maps side by side is it closer to the abyss

[glad slate]

cause why would there be lava in pharloom

[trim lark]

the ancient civilisation was thirsty and drank it all

[stuck berry]

me when

[glad slate]

perhaps the abyss just wasn’t explored in pharloom like at all, while it had its own whole civilization at a point in hallownest

though shamans still know about it for some odd reason

[trim lark]

i mean theres a weavenest down there

[glad slate]

oh right the weavenest

🥹

i mean the weavers looked toward the abyss a lot later

[stuck berry]

absalom doing god's work by giving hornet the most convenient silk skill just when she needs it

[fathom hill]

somehow im starting to genuinely believe its about celeste, someone said that mt fay is a mountain in canada too

so theres a chance tc did indeed just play celeste

[glad slate]

Silksong giving me flashbacks to both celeste and nine sols goes hard

[stray fog]

When the kingdom is suspiciously metroidvania shaped

[stuck berry]

i would not be surprised if one of the shroom's speeches is a dead cells reference

[frosty gate]

Yeah, but they didn't seem to do much regarding Void, it seems to be more like a Watchpost

[fathom hill]

wait youre right

Ill check

[stray fog]

Which one

[stuck berry]

how i felt getting the parry and realizing it felt exactly like it did in nine sols

[glad slate]

Nine sols as in the conveniently placed scenes of hornet struggling to do shit because of drained power REALLY conveniently reminding me of yi

[stuck berry]

idk i'm saying it's possible

[stuck berry]

yi was lowkey dying of tianhuo (at least i think) whereas hornet was just hurt from her many falls

[muted lantern]

im a silksong fan i can't read

[fathom hill]

ill just crop it wait for me

[stuck berry]

also lee the silksong prison section is leagues better than the nine sols one right

[glad slate]

yeah hornet was just hurt, though at the start of the game it was from how strong the bindings were.
Yi was just dying

[stuck berry]

tell me i'm not the only one who thought this

[muted lantern]

oh i remember that section it sucked in nine sols

[stuck berry]

it did

[muted lantern]

very clunky

[stuck berry]

they should've stripped yi in that section as well

[fathom hill]

there it is

[glad slate]

the nine sols one was miserable. I also hated the fucking adds boss at the end of the sequence.

In SS It’s peak, especially when you realize she gets her own boss theme in the fly gauntlet.

Hornet has a healthbar.

[fathom hill]

If you want to analyze and see what are they referencing

[stuck berry]

he's a very strange half-boss they don't even count him for the boss refight mode at the end

[fathom hill]

the lil hornet dialogue in between the first ones like hornet stfu pls let him talk

[stuck berry]

on everyone's soul nobody wants to refight kanghui

[glad slate]

imagine being the flies and seeing hornet drop down from the ceiling, snap one of the stronger flies necks, and suddenly you hear boss music.

Cinema.

[stray fog]

I honestly have no idea

[brisk thunder]

nine-sol prison session is better in story progression

ss prison session is just naked

[stuck berry]

nine sols prison section story-wise was interesting and i like how jiequan abused yi's revive ability, and having the boss be a guy who was mutilated by the fengs for a petty crime does great to build them up as a threat

but all of that is bogged down by the tedious gameplay

[glad slate]

though I didn’t beat nine sols 😭
Did literally like everything and. Didn’t feel like beating Eigong.

[stuck berry]

silksong's doesn't have much story to it but it's fun and they get creative with it

[stuck berry]

she's tough as nails i do not blame you

i spent an hour a day practicing her for a week before finally getting it

[glad slate]

though I also did every hk achievement and then didn’t wanna dedicate an insane amount of time to p5 attempts

it’s so easy to get rusty with bosses after awhile

[muted lantern]

i still need to finish nine sols

i only played it on my dads xbox while my pc was broken then left it behind to finish hollow knight when i got my computer

[fathom hill]

please dont talk abt nine sols i feel left out havent tried it yet

[glad slate]

lowkey silksong would probably make p5 so much easier for me

[fathom hill]

[muted lantern]

pantheon 5 was harder than anything in silksong imo

[glad slate]

i’ve had to get used to dodging enemies so much more

🙏 in hk I just face tanked a lot

ngl

[muted lantern]

or maybe silksong wasnt hard for me because i did p5? idk

karmelita still kicked my ass

[fathom hill]

ive heard of someone that beat p5 in like 5 tries but struggled with lost lace for like 30 atts or something

[stray fog]

Moss mother 🙏

[brisk thunder]

p5 is just boss rush，the main game is not boss fight centered

[fathom hill]

Not me obviously, both took me a day and a half

p5 a lil more i dont remember

[muted lantern]

i don't think p5 took me that many attempts, but only because everytime i lost i used hall of gods to practice each individual boss i struggled with to perfect against them, so most of my time was practicing for p5 and not actually doing it

[fathom hill]

p5 is peak though, but i think this is stockholm syndrome

[glad slate]

I honestly really think Silksong does more to attach you to npcs. Don’t get me wrong hk had really good npc moments, but I prefer hornet’s yapping and all the conversations and npcs that can fight with you making it a lot more interactive than hk

[muted lantern]

i enjoyed radiant hall of gods more because i suck at endurance challenges

[cobalt coyote]

How many unique bosses does p5 have btw?

[fathom hill]

cuz im sure that if theres a pantheom of pharloom theres no reason not to bring checkpoint, 40 mins of boss rush is tough

[glad slate]

except Grindle. I hate Grindle.

[fathom hill]

yeah! hornets dialogue really adds to them

I also love hornets characterization, she is nice and cool

[muted lantern]

twin vengefly kings, nailmasters, paintmaster, nailsage, pure vessel, sisters of battle, winged nosk, absrad. I think thats all?

[fathom hill]

grindle is fine

[muted lantern]

grindle is grindle

[fathom hill]

i dont like jubilana though

grindle wouldnt put out these prices and he a thief

[muted lantern]

relic seeker scrounge is my favorite non important npc

[fathom hill]

i can look the other way yes

[cobalt coyote]

I mean half of those are previous pantheons, for unique bosses its only twin vengeflies, sisters of battle, winged nosk, ABS rad

[fathom hill]

also the watona mea tula dialogue he got

[glad slate]

One thing I actually kinda dislike is how merchants for the most part say absolutely nothing about you buying out their stock since you still got rosary necklaces or shard bundles as potential buys after

[fathom hill]

grindle is fun

[fathom hill]

only one that mentions it is the guy at bone bottom i think

[stuck berry]

i wish he said something if you never freed him in the marrow jail

[cobalt coyote]

Pebb

[fathom hill]

he doesnt?

[glad slate]

them, they get haunted shortly after leaving, then there’s twelth architect

[cobalt coyote]

Poor pebb

[glad slate]

i believe that’s it

[quartz flicker]

A few merchants have plenty of dialogue anyway. Hardly matters.

[cobalt coyote]

Or wait Rich pebb

[stuck berry]

he just frees himself

[glad slate]

Even then I like little interactions. Grindle saying nothing if you wear the thief’s mark is a surprise

[fathom hill]

but he doesnt mention it?

thats crazy

[limpid summit]

What is it about Hornet that makes her unable to put rosaries on strings herself

[fathom hill]

literally unplayable

[stuck berry]

arm nubs too big

[glad slate]

Then the bellhart lady is just like “the world is doomed. Alright you should buy from me anyways!”

[stuck berry]

in gameplay grindle is the guy who gets everyone's stock after the other characters die and he serves that purpose but i wish he did something after

[fathom hill]

she hasnt mastered the fine craft of putting stuff on strings apparently

[quartz flicker]

Grindle appears in like 5 different locations with unique dialogue.

[glad slate]

i mean hey grindle is one of the few that get slapped

[fathom hill]

only two get slapped

[muted lantern]

shes supporting the local economy okay?

[glad slate]

grindle gets a little more but meh some of the other merchants do absolutely nothing

[brisk thunder]

able to build new tools when depleted，unable to tie string

[brisk thunder]

3

[glad slate]

what’s the bellhart lady’s name again 🙏

[stuck berry]

yarnaby

[fathom hill]

three?

[glad slate]

she lwk could’ve starved idc if I got a hot tub she only cares about the rosaries

[muted lantern]

frey

[fathom hill]

like

like the mountain

as in

[glad slate]

mount frey

[fathom hill]

as in the mountain

[stuck berry]

what if it were called mount fart and you got the defender's crest at the top

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/darkest-dungeon-ancestor-gif-21405227

https://tenor.com/view/darkest-dungeon-gif-23184588

[stuck berry]

instead of fayforn ogrim would fall from the heavens bless you with the charm and lift away like the lorax

[glad slate]

To be fair team cherry poured a lot of detail into the game, can’t expect every character to have small interactions but

Also like how you can technically beat the game without needolin since the major needolin things are scripted iirc

hornet pulling out these music skills outta nowhere

[tiny socket]

Hornet probably got judged guilty by the last judge because she plagiarised a known weaver song, while Shermas sick tunes are totally original so he gets a pass

[scenic stirrup]

Do u think hornet left hallownest after hk or do u think she still has a house there somewhere

[stuck berry]

i don't think she had a house to begin with

also i've been meaning to ask is your pfp homura

[stuck berry]

the closest thing you could imagine her having a house is the deepnest weaver's den

[fathom hill]

im sure she was in hallownest since she doesnt mention another land or something, hornet doesnt really strike me as one that would leave hallownest unless there was a reason to

[stuck berry]

i feel hornet's more of a wanderer than a settler

[fathom hill]

what is the exact quote on the borders though

[fathom hill]

Could be, but she is willing to come back to whenever she was

she did say she is not hallownest sentinel anymore so who knows

[stuck berry]

could hornet ever have participated in the colosseum

[fathom hill]

maybe

[dry bridge]

She had a lot of time to potentially have, idk if she would have though

[fathom hill]

not much else to do in hallownest in years living there id guess

[dry bridge]

Maybe, but shes also a bit busy being a sentinel of a dying land, and maybe helping rebuild it after so idk

[fathom hill]

just note shes not sentinel anymore apparently

maybe cuz she killed a lot of her siblings and the radiance is dead, not much reason to anymore

or maybe she does see it as foolish now, given you're protecting dust and rock anyways

[fathom hill]

she doesnt do stuff without a reward, but i wonder how valuable is geo in current hallownest anyways

[dry bridge]

Yeah I know that, which is why I said "maybe helping rebuild it after" i.e. whatever shes getting up to in post-radiance hallownest

[fathom hill]

like outside what the knight does buy and use

[fathom hill]

catching up with thk

[stuck berry]

i wonder what other non-radiance threats could've faced the land that hornet would've gone up against

[scenic stirrup]

No shes ui kozeki from a gacha game im kinda embarrassed to talk abt 💀

[fathom hill]

lifeblood

[dry bridge]

The colosseum just doesnt quite seem hornet's vibe to me I guess but theres definitely more than enough time for her to challenge it if she wanted to

[fathom hill]

though in hallownest we dont have two dumbasses injecting it into everything so who knows

[stuck berry]

looked it up found out where that's from and ykw i shan't say

good luck guy

[scenic stirrup]

How did u think hornet got kidnapped in the first place

[stuck berry]

they swarmed her

caught her off guard

[dry bridge]

The ole bench webbing prank

[stuck berry]

i think the lifeblood coccoons are far enough away that they don't pose enough of a threat

[stuck berry]

https://tenor.com/view/enzolinow-hollow-knight-silksong-bench-trap-gif-9463797525553840378

[dry bridge]

I was referencing the bit in deepnest from the first game actually but yknow skaarbench works too

[charred thistle]

I enjoyed the shock value quite a bit

You’re used to lifeblood being all great and all, and then have this healing mutated enemy that’s basically infected just blue

[dim beacon]

i think lifeblood might need specific conditions to 'thrive'

it was specifically seeded around the caves artificially

[stuck berry]

possibly being surrounded by voids

[dry bridge]

Lifeblood in hallownest seems... mostly benign outside of a couple overgrown grottos while in silksong it uh, was injected into as many worms as there were in the ways and just left to grow

[stuck berry]

yeah the alchemist did take lifeblood from elsewhere and plug it into the wormways didn't he

[dim beacon]

to be fair we know the pale king did Ban That Shit so this is likely not an isolated instance

[stuck berry]

it's an invasive species if you could even call it a species

[fathom hill]

also like the most of it isnt in the abyss anyways?

not dangerous for now

[stuck berry]

the worst of it surely

[dim beacon]

its like a fungus maybe. a slime mold

[dry bridge]

Most of the hallownest lifeblood is in either the joni room or in the abyss room yeah

[dim beacon]

whats with that big bitch in the abyss room anyways

[fathom hill]

wasnt that one joni?

[dry bridge]

Great question!

[stuck berry]

joni was in the cliffs and she was just like a prophet for it

[dim beacon]

like the big bitch

like you see the eyes in the bg. thats the big bitch

[stuck berry]

abyss creature is uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[craggy smelt]

way more sinister than we thought

[dim beacon]

yeah we dont know what that isssss .........

[edgy nebula]

mottled skarr wins with ease, next

[fathom hill]

maybe well see whatever this is in the lifeblood dlc for ss

[dim beacon]

oh damn you signed up for discord almost exactly on my 11th birthday. thats crazy

[fathom hill]

[stuck berry]

interestingly he has a similar eye patern to the void tendrils but i think that's where the similarities end

[charred thistle]

I think we’ll have to wait for Pablo to get some explaination

[ivory lantern]

Is Herrah actually a weaver i mean she doesn't really look like one 😮

[fathom hill]

she is

[stuck berry]

she is confirmed a weaver

[lethal burrow]

Can I see your iceberg?

[stuck berry]

no we don't know why she looks like that

[fathom hill]

as of why she looks different huhhhhhhhh

[stuck berry]

well uh sure but you're gonna have to ask me out on a date first

[dim beacon]

her head definitely matches a weaver's now that we know what a maskless one looks like (widow) except for the horns. idont know why. and maybe she is just a fat woman we dont know .

[stuck berry]

yo guys its me charlie did that guy just turn into sand

[dim beacon]

im turning 21 on the 12th this month

[fathom hill]

show them the iceberg iceberg boy

[dim beacon]

if that helps

anyway making people feel old aside

[stuck berry]

@lethal burrow

[lethal burrow]

might as well post this again there's no reason not.

It's good resources I spent time making these images. I'm gonna get my moneys worth.

[lethal burrow]

ty

[dim beacon]

not really cut, just renamed to steel soul

[stuck berry]

not true, they said in an interview it was going to be like an EX version rather than permadeath

well they didn't say that verbatim but the idea was that it'd be harder

[edgy nebula]

what is everything in the final layer? im honestly clueless on that

[dim beacon]

Ah, I see

[stuck berry]

half the stuff is based off sprites found in the game's files that weren't anywhere in the final game so it's essentially cut content

[charred thistle]

I’ll join in the question

[timber pond]

Probably because of its lore relevance With the "Steel Souls" tbh (Steel hearts)

[stuck berry]

vespa was gonna be a boss if her sprites are anything to go by, we might've seen what happened to widow's mask in her memories if her sprites are anything to go by, the judge enemies were going to be pacifist towards you if you never killed any enemies if the code was anything to go by

typically the lower on the iceberg the more obscure so i think i did a good job on that layer 😌

[dim beacon]

where can i find these sprites?

[timber pond]

This was silk soul you think or are you just listing cut stuff?

[stuck berry]

in the files i just said

[stuck berry]

listing what's on the bottom layer

[fathom hill]

thats a lot of sprites

[stuck berry]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Cut_Content_(Silksong) @dim beacon

[fathom hill]

was it meant to be a boss battle?

[dim beacon]

thank you!

[stuck berry]

i don't know what else it could be

[fathom hill]

playable

[timber pond]

Yeah probably with the amount of attack sprites

[stuck berry]

then where are the bench sprites and healing sprites

[fathom hill]

that would have been interesting but would have hindered on the flow of the memory section

[timber pond]

it would be funny if Vespa named her Hornet,Because hornets invade Hives and attack bees

[fathom hill]

if the section looked like anything what we got

[fathom hill]

turn the page

[stuck berry]

dying to vespa and then having to watch the ritual cutscene again just to platform back

they'll probs reuse it for some hidden dreams esque DLC

[fathom hill]

godhome too

maybe we dont know what will be first yet

[dim beacon]

stupid baby

[ivory lantern]

what are the cut widow mutilation sprites? 😱

[ivory lantern]

very girthy

[ivory lantern]

thank you

is this suggesting that silk is stored in the head just like how pee is stored in the balls

[stuck berry]

it's suggesting widow got mutilated

[dim beacon]

we know she got mutilated though

[stuck berry]

let me rebuke the silk head storage thing

[timber pond]

why did they cut these achivements anyway

[fathom hill]

maybe they planning on adding more

[ivory lantern]

seems like the most likely explaination

[stuck berry]

be honest do you really want to carry a courier thing to maskmaker or beat all of seth's records just to get an achievement

it's too tedious it's better left off as optional things

[timber pond]

i did indeed do those

and idk i wish i could flex easier

[stray fog]

If someone is grinding all achievements they're already insane enough to do this

[ebon silo]

It would've been kinda funny if there was an ending if we didn't pick up lace

[fathom hill]

i mean achievements arent really meant to be easy or for anyone

most players wont do all achievos anyways

[stuck berry]

it's a flex enough that you did it

[ebon silo]

Alot have already gotten all of the achievements

[stuck berry]

i don't know why there would have to be an achievment for that

[ivory lantern]

intrinsic vs extrinsic motivation ahh

[stuck berry]

it's more rewarding to get those because you want to no

rather than because a sprite and some text told you to

[fathom hill]

we just kind of leap up

[past cypress]

These are way easier than beating P5 so idk

[fathom hill]

and nothing is changed so we gotta come back down

[stuck berry]

lace gets overtaken by the void again the delicate flower breaks and you just have to do all of act 3 again

[fathom hill]

how if no snails

we just go home like losers

[stray fog]

Where do the shamans even go btw

[fathom hill]

dieied

[stuck berry]

they come back baked

naked

[stray fog]

Shamam is kill

[fathom hill]

im sure the snails just were pulverized

[stuck berry]

snail shaman streaking theory

[ivory lantern]

you gotta bring a flower from the grey mourner all the way from hollownest

[stuck berry]

"ah shit we tricked her into giving us the hearts and we killed her let's just run"

[stray fog]

Also Let's be naked while we do that

[fathom hill]

then you come back but it was such the long way you took so long pharloom its like a crater in the ground

so you come back to hallownest again

[fathom hill]

the caretaker going naked from songclave to the chapel

[stray fog]

Ig being naked isn't that big of a deal for bugs

Imagine being sherma and some random ass mf takes of his clothes and gives them to you

[fathom hill]

you would guess not from a religious society though no

but bugs religion are different

theres still more bugs with cloaks than in hk, hk most only had their shells

[stuck berry]

yeah i wondered that hornet doesn't seem to have issues with it in and of itself she's just pissed she's defenseless

[fathom hill]

yeah cuz her cloak its like just her stuff

[stray fog]

There is a similar human religion too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digambara

[fathom hill]

its like someone steals your backpack

[fathom hill]

yah yah

[stuck berry]

so you're saying i should snap the necks of people who have wronged me

[fathom hill]

i mean

[stuck berry]

oh you're dissagreeing with me are you

[fathom hill]

only if its justified by unadulterated racism you can

[stray fog]

Why is Hornet the only person in her universe who fights with a needle

[fathom hill]

she likes it

maybe needles are harder to use

[stuck berry]

it's made with hivesteel probably with lifeblood so maybe vespa and co made it special for her?

[fathom hill]

they dont seem as different to pins for me though

[stuck berry]

not enough bugs that fight with normal human objects

[fathom hill]

scissor guys

[stuck berry]

we have the dreg-people the knight's nail and that's it

[stray fog]

Some needle related skills are "ancestral arts" though

[clever rapids]

shld i finish lost lace or mister mushroom first

[stuck berry]

dreg people

[stray fog]

Did the weavers use needles

[fathom hill]

scissor guys yah

[stuck berry]

mister mushroom

[fathom hill]

dont think so, they seem to use their claws

[stuck berry]

tchhh and pins i forgot

[clever rapids]

also, it seems players r enjoying SS mister mushroom better than HK's ?

[fathom hill]

more like the beast crest

wait in the beast crest is she using her claws right

[stuck berry]

what is there to enjoy it's just an alright quest

[fathom hill]

or just the nail but the effect is different

[stray fog]

There are puzzles in ss for mr mushroom, which I like more

[fathom hill]

more like riddles

[stuck berry]

the first one had riddles as well it was just hidden by an invisible wall

[stray fog]

Fr?

[stuck berry]

i don't even know how to respond to that

[fathom hill]

yeah that too

the pale oil only reveals what was hidden no

or something

[stuck berry]

cleaned it up

[stray fog]

That makes sense because vespa taught her combat, so that's where she must have gotten her weapon from

[past cypress]

Mushroom needs you to beat Lost Lace

[stuck berry]

no it does not

[clever rapids]

wait what

[fathom hill]

maybe at lack of stinger they gave her a needle which was similar enough

[stuck berry]

it does not it does not

it just needs you to have visited the abyss the first time

[stuck berry]

i like this headcanon

[stray fog]

I think he might have been talking about the mushroom cutscene

[stuck berry]

ah yeah that does

[scenic stirrup]

God the sound effect of binding GMS gives me goosebumps

[stray fog]

How did Hornet know about the everbloom? Did the pale king or white lady just tell her about it once

[past cypress]

The cutscene/achievement

[stray fog]

The delicate flower ending?

[fathom hill]

i wonder if everbloom was ever like common or something

[past cypress]

No the Mister Mushroom bonus scene and the achievement

[fathom hill]

why does the mourner have like an infinite stash of them

is she a hoarder i mean shes depressed tbf

[stray fog]

I don't want to say this because this is the boring explanation, but

Gameplay reasons

[fathom hill]

video gam

ig hornet did just see it one day in the palace

and she was like neat and then 1000 years later she remember

[stuck berry]

zemer sucks at delivery so much so all the flowers became delicate

[fathom hill]

maybe she has infinite stash cuz she grows them

she discovered agriculture

neat

[stray fog]

That "first light" part has some potential for future lore

Like is it the strongest pale light

[drifting apex]

what happened here?

[muted lantern]

he smoked that gas station plasmium

[drifting apex]

if its spoilers for act 3 then i dont want to know 🙏

[fathom hill]

someone here said earlier something about how it is the trope of light and dark

but also remind you pale king spent a lot of time down in the abyss doing his thing so he could use it to ward it off

[quartz salmon]

the momentous achievement is identical to this also cut thing, maybe a hornet memento or a quest icon

[stuck berry]

some guy died there i don't know what you wanted to hear

[fathom hill]

||drugs||

[fathom hill]

memento for getting all mementos

maybe the 9th thing left on the shelf

[analog crow]

yo is elder huu part of shakra's tribe i just played hollow knight and i got to that boss and he looks like shakras master

[fathom hill]

could be could be not

[stuck berry]

it's possible

kinda dislike that people are playing silksong before hollow knight but with the game's popularity i get it

[fathom hill]

its fine me think

[stuck berry]

NO silksong's a SEQUEL they gotta play it CHRONOLOGICALLY grrr

[fathom hill]

its just more people getting into it and thats great

[stuck berry]

YOU'RE MANPREGNANT

[fathom hill]

im always manpregent

[crude marsh]

cook

[tiny socket]

😳

[fathom hill]

✌️

[quartz salmon]

silksong

[drifting apex]

What is exhaust organ supposed to be exactly?

[fathom hill]

silk

[tiny socket]

The waste chute from the citadel

[fathom hill]

gotta love how the hornet emoticon is just silksong

[stuck berry]

it's the thing that powers the mist

[fathom hill]

she is the silksong

[drifting apex]

And phantom was in charge of managing it?

[stuck berry]

the mist covers the only paths from sinner's road and bilewater so more than likely it was a system to keep the undesirables out

[drifting apex]

Damn so bilewater is just a huge trash dump for the citadel?

[fathom hill]

what is the mist for then to keep people from shutting it off

[fathom hill]

yah

[stuck berry]

it used to be a nice place but they dumped it with muck and bile water

[fathom hill]

I mean its connected to the ducts and that fucks up everything near

[tiny socket]

The mist is phantoms silk contaminating the output water most likely

[stuck berry]

i don't think phantom's contaminating it

[crude marsh]

i always thought of it as where all the sewerage goes

[drifting apex]

Hmm

[fathom hill]

yah sewer

[quartz salmon]

i like how its just so blatant A C D E

[drifting apex]

What was the point of the mist then? Just a form of protection for the exhaust organ?

[fathom hill]

why did they cut the other ending

[stuck berry]

a way to keep the sinners and stilkin out of the holy citadel

[fathom hill]

was it really cuz it didnt make sense with the story of the game or message whatever

[stuck berry]

maybe they felt it was too many? anyone's guess

[fathom hill]

maybe felt redundant

given we already have a "bad" ending

[stuck berry]

oh no everyone is silked compared to the other ending where oh no everyone is silked

[fathom hill]

yah

[quartz salmon]

also this, judge_1, phantom_1???

[digital wolf]

It would be cool if we lose the GMS ending B pops out

[tiny socket]

Phantom is actively decaying, so I assumed that the mist was the product of the citadel exhaust mixing with the silk remnants, leading the the wraiths and the maziness

[stuck berry]

if we fail to bind after winning

do y'all know if you get the wraith entry by killing phantom

[fathom hill]

i think this was the intended way of getting it, like the sealed siblings one

[tiny socket]

I think dying to gms should lead to 5 minutes of unskippable credits

[digital wolf]

Git gud

[fathom hill]

fun fact sealed sibling was the first ending i got cuz i was dumb and didnt understand what hornet wanted me to do so i just stood there like a dumbass

[tiny socket]

Compulsion to win

[quartz salmon]

well they could just make it play out once for ending B and then never again

[tiny socket]

Speedrunners would love it

[fathom hill]

yah

[stuck berry]

cool

[fathom hill]

i saw it in the wiki when i was researching something

[quartz salmon]

just yk get good and all that

[stuck berry]

guy who genuinely thinks wraiths are unkillable

[fathom hill]

some of the trivia in the wiki is "please add something fun here or something" though

[stuck berry]

we are in the game's infancy

[fathom hill]

yah

its been a month and something yet

[fathom hill]

unskippable credits go hard

i love them so much i love team cherry

[flint wadi]

silksong wiki's fullness scales with the amount of mossbags videos on it

currently theres 0

[fathom hill]

hes been posting stuff in twitter though i think

wouldnt i know i dont have it

mossbag vid tomorrow trust

maybe he can crack the herald references

[past cypress]

Speaking of, wtf was the herald on about in HK? I get what he said in Silksong but the HK lines still confuse me

[flint wadi]

we will only figure out the hk1 ones by 2050

[past cypress]

Most limited entries do this, including the Verdania enemies and the Coral Tower enemies

[fathom hill]

references to stuff team cherry likes or their games

[flint wadi]

game references

[fathom hill]

some are still uncracked though im sure

[past cypress]

Wow

[fathom hill]

great

[stuck berry]

references to team cherry gamejam games

[fathom hill]

you are in your infancy

[past cypress]

Ah, the next game release

[stuck berry]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-eating-camera-gif-21801752

[past cypress]

I'm still waiting for Hungry Knight 2

[fathom hill]

https://tenor.com/view/flash-bang-cat-gif-9228092957721715341

light and dark like the huhhhhhhh

game

[stuck berry]

smeltagoon

[flint wadi]

hungry knight 2: the cherry team

[fathom hill]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-say-that-say-that-agian-marvel-fantastic-gif-12441585058103544841

agian

[timber pond]

I wonder what other momentos they have for us then lol

[timber pond]

It'll be the next fleagame in DLC

Hornet Eating contest 💀

[fathom hill]

you may be cooking

[timber pond]

Well, FleaBrew drinking contest makse more sense

[fathom hill]

yah yah

[timber pond]

Can hornet even get drunk

[fathom hill]

maybe you have to drink and come back running for refills

[timber pond]

She implies she has some antitoxin from her bloodline or something

[stuck berry]

demigod drunkeness immunity🗣️🗣️🗣️

[lethal burrow]

what are some super inconsequential small things that marginally tick you off when people do them in relation to silk song discussion? ya know, things on the level of grand mother silk not being written with a space between "grand" and "mother"
That sort of little stuff

[stuck berry]

but she's grandma

[fathom hill]

but she is mother

and grand

[stuck berry]

my mother is pretty grand you don't see me calling her grand mother

[fathom hill]

https://tenor.com/view/im-sorry-i-cant-be-your-mother-i-can't-be-your-mother-girl-walks-by-leave-baby-mother-gif-9593775525508823131

[stuck berry]

that's a sister you doofus

[fathom hill]

you havent seen the vid have you

you haventsss

[stuck berry]

haven't the foggiest

[fathom hill]

https://youtu.be/mYp4tGE-zKI?si=rCovrSWkczaOQBR5

quick lemme insert a hk character into this

[fathom hill]

yes

or no could be any of these

she does have resistance to lotta stuff dou

[stuck berry]

what is the limit of creige's nectars you can buy

[fathom hill]

2

no idunno guys im going to bed see yall nerd

[finite cave]

i know this is probably a somewhat common topic around here but what age do yall think lace is

caretaker says she has the mind and body of a child (body he is right about) but he and nobody else know about lace roleplaying as a child

[atomic dirge]

Is void immune to the effects of lifeblood? Cause TK does not have side effects when at high lifeblood but Hornet very much does

[vocal tulip]

From what I understand, Lace is a silk construct like EVA, but made by grandmother silk to actually function. Lace isn’t a child, but their body looks like what I’m assuming a young version of GMS looks like, so people call her a child.

[craggy smelt]

that's as good an explanation as any

[vocal tulip]

I’m pretty sure it’s just because the hollow knight is “hollow”, as in it is a vessel/container, so the infection(in a sense) from lifeblood is better contained

But with hornet, she is not hollow

[fallow totem]

anyone know who this bug might be?

[timber pond]

Snail shaman Village?

[fallow totem]

ooh an interesting thought. saw someone on reddit think it could be the settlement that garmond was from

[tacit pine]

hermit crab?

[toxic mulch]

I just assume it's cuz the vessels are well vessels so they can contain it but also they're already dead,nothing to really infect maybe?

[lethal burrow]

anywho got any obscure ss lore trivia

[toxic mulch]

Idk what'd even count as obscure at this point,first game has been picked apart and silksong is a ton of speculation rn

[mortal meadow]

Just a little question
Were did the hollow knight went at the end of true ending ?

[lethal burrow]

that's not possible to know unless you ask team cherry and they decide to tell you

I think they're talking about Godhome?

like the cliffhanger? I may be wrong though.

[undone musk]

There is another one of those at Pale Lake

[clever rapids]

strange, it seems like even nameless town wasn't spared from pharloom's grasp

[fathom pollen]

what happens if you talk to karmelita after using three hearts(one from verdania) to get the flower?

nevermind i forgot wiki has dialoguw

[quartz salmon]

its just a guy

[gritty fractal]

so i was going thru the wiki looking at the cut content again
i never really got a good look at the blue structure before
is just me or are those like, extremely large lifeblood growths

is it possible then this was going to be the place in the bay that Zylotol mentioned when talking about where lifeblood was discovered?

[whole holly]

where was this supposed to be?

[gritty fractal]

we do not know where exactly this would be because it was an internal area, so it was just placed in the bottom left of the progress map with other internal structures like the coral tower

but based on Zylotol's dialogue about where his master discovered lifeblood originally it can be assumed that this area would be within pharloom bay

[whole holly]

i wonder if DLC including Pharloom bay will explain everything, about Steel Hearts and Lifeblood as well

Bilewater will have more narrative purpose

[cobalt coyote]

Please dont make me go to bilewater again

[gritty fractal]

More I learn about the bay the more I realize it is actually the most likely cut area to return as DLC. I wonder what issues they were having with the area (populating it with enemies or just general redesign trouble)
because its crazy that this lifeblood room and the path to the bay were there up until the final month

[timber pond]

"Lifeblood Spire"

MIght return if it wa reoved just a month before. is that true?

[gritty fractal]

yes both the lifeblood spire and the path leading to the bay from bilewater existed on the final map recorded by ACMI (august 7 2025)

though the bay itself seems absent from the map ever since its original location was replaced by verdania?

[scenic stirrup]

No way hollow knight string song!?

[craggy smelt]

loomland

but yeees... Bay was cut to put the game out sooner, put in back in with dlccccc....

[covert night]

it's in where verdania is right now. and in the first trailer verdania was in wormways

[gritty fractal]

where verdania is now used to be pharloom bay

also verdania wasnt always verdania. before the mantises (or are they grasshoppers?), it was actually an aspid themed area

[whole marsh]

There’s one at the Bone Bottom Weaver Sarcophagus as well, but it gets destroyed in Act 3. There’s also a broken one in Deep docks. Part of it will light up when you play music, but no text will be displayed.

[drowsy lion]

is it official that lifeblood is basically a forbidden substance

[flint wadi]

the fabled lifeblood spire.....

[covert night]

it's literally a drug

[real escarp]

Hornet says the lifeblood infection is similar to radiance's infection

[whole marsh]

I assume it’s a defense system to keep anyone from entering the citadel via the back entrance. Either it was created on purpose, or it’s a side effect of the runoff steam from the exhaust organ. After all, the most hostile faction is directly connected to the mist/exhaust organ.

The wraith enemies also look visually similar to Phantom, and their entry hints toward them being created by her.

[whole marsh]

It is in Hallownest. It shows up in Pharloom for the first time during the events of the game. So the only person who knows how dangerous it is is Hornet.

[gritty fractal]

in Hallownest yes but Pharloom doesn't know yet

its discovery is relatively recent in Pharloom's history

[drowsy lion]

so the knight was high key just taking drygs

[quartz salmon]

yeah this stuff is coming back in dlc

it was literally in the game until 3 months ago

[covert night]

cant wait to fight with lifeblood butterfly god

[flint wadi]

labeled a taboo in hallownest

[flint wadi]

yeah pretty much, theyre pretty resistant to it too

[gritty fractal]

the Knight doesn't face any adverse effects as Hornet or other bugs do
probably due to Void physiology

[flint wadi]

though with SS's retcons in mind hallownest presents a more mindful side of lifeblood

joni's repose is teeming with butterflies yet doesnt have any signs of hazardous infection, lifeblood is probably a double edged sword in how you use it

[whole marsh]

I assume it’s due to him being a vessel. Lifeblood is similar to Rad’s infection, just toned down. If TK can seal Rad (even if only temporarily), it should have no problem suppressing the effects of a similar and much weaker “thing”

[tiny socket]

Is there any information on the lifeblood that appears in godhome?

[gritty fractal]

just that it is related to the same creature that is encountered in the lifeblood core in the bayss

[flint wadi]

if you crudely inject it into everything it ends up crudely taking over

but in hallownest lifeblood's growths are generally harmless, so theres probably a line between artificial lifeblood growth and natural

[drowsy lion]

when you break the door open and look down there’s a monster of lifeblood invading godhome

[whole marsh]

The lifeblood creature shows up in Godhome, and you unlock cocoons in pantheon rest stops when you complete bindings. But that’s literally it.

[undone musk]

I'm pretty sure it was, but simply died out through other means. The hunters journal entry for the Skrill there says: "This surface dweller is free of Silk. Its nature remains its own. The monarch's influence must only have stretched below it.". Seems to suggest to me GMS did not affect the surface.

[whole marsh]

It was actively suppressed in Hallownest, so their spread being limited could be a result of that.

[covert night]

also plasmium is a scientific name, that means it was researched rather than suppressed in pharloom

[whole marsh]

And I know this is likely a retcon, but there aren’t any creatures within Joni’s repose. Yeah there stuff outside, but nothing seems to be actively living within the infected area. She could have been thrown down there to quarantine it.

[flint wadi]

hallownest has been unregulated for a looong time, and lifeblood cocoons in it can be found all throughout, so i think its just less volatile if allowed to spread naturally

[whole marsh]

True. Could be that its natural spread is very slow.

[gritty fractal]

its more like
pharloom and hallownest are two completely different cultures with no communication between eachother and lifeblood was discovered in both independently so they came up with different names

[pulsar python]

I think it's spread could be something related to the Void's grasp on Pharloom in act 3 too, since Lifeblood and the Abyss seem to be related in some way

Mostly through the abyss creature and lifeblood core room in HK

[whole marsh]

With all of this lifeblood talk, I’m just now realizing that Hiveblood is likely a similar substance to lifeblood. Categorically at least. A rejuvenating substance that binds all who have it within. It’s just not cancerous like LB or actively infectious like Rad’s infection.

And that would explain why the bees are physically unchanged, even though they’re infected. Rad just gave herself Admin access to hiveblood, which brought the bees under her thrall. No need to inject her own orange madness into them when they’ve already got stuff she can work with.

[gritty fractal]

Unfortunately Hornet implies all the bees died out after the fall of the Radiance

[pulsar python]

Couldn't Hiveblood be like a refined form of Lifeblood? The bees were known for refining materials for their own use and keeping what they created away from regular hallownest

[whole marsh]

I don’t think there’s really a connection. The abyss creature is sealed away. The ancient civilization could have been the ones to lock it away to stop or slow it’s spreading.

[gritty fractal]

i dont think they are related

[whole marsh]

Possibly? Lifeblood could be the nectar they used to make hiveblood. But I’m leaning more toward them being similar, but not directly related.

[pulsar python]

I mean if you use Joni's blessing and Hiveblood, doesn't it turn the Lifeblood masks into regenerating hiveblood ones?

[whole marsh]

Ah yeah, good point

[gritty fractal]

i dont think there's a connection just because two charms interact with eachother. tbh we dont really understand how that mechanic even works in universe, just salubra vaguely saying the charms seem to "like eachother"

[whole marsh]

Plus, the combined effect could have a different effect for a non-vessel, like Hornet.

[gritty fractal]

charm lore is kind of weird tbh. you kind of just have to handwave some of it as just being a game mechanic, like grimmchild being a charm doesnt make much sense in-universe if you think about it

[whole marsh]

The charm could be what binds it to TK

As in, it’s not the charm itself, the charm is just what summons it

[gritty fractal]

could do i suppose

on the subject does pharloom have any charms. it feels like that should be a universal concept not unique to hallownest

the only tool that sticks out to me is the egg of flealia

[whole marsh]

The blue and yellow tools are functionally the same. I think the distinction is just a gameplay thing.

Well most of them at least

[heavy gyro]

the wish icons kinda look like charms

and the flea tool could be a charm

oh u mentioned that already

[pulsar python]

It could just be Hornet's preference to not use charms, so she doesn't see a need to pick them up if she sees them (thus no shiny item)

[whole marsh]

I think most of the blue and yellow could be considered charms

[pulsar python]

Her tools seem to be a good enough replacement anyway

[whole marsh]

Stuff like the architects tools I wouldn’t count, but most of them are functionally the same.

[gritty fractal]

functionally yes but in universe no
im just really talking about charms existing in pharloom

[whole marsh]

Are the blue and yellow tools ever referred to as such outside of in game menus and non-diagetic text?

[pulsar python]

I mean witch's eyes could also be a more primal form of a charm, it's an amulet but it works the same in effect

[pulsar python]

They're called tools by hornet at another point if I remember

[whole marsh]

The again, charms are said to have a unique method to their creation… so maybe it’s just a Hallownest thing

[pulsar python]

Would also explain why most charms are finite (besides Leg eater's Ig?), because the people who used to make them died out or got infected

[whole marsh]

That one does seem to check all the boxes for a proper charm.

[gritty fractal]

eh doesn't seem like specific people made them. given the wide range of individuals that seem create them

they also just seem to form, like sporeshroom

[prime summit]

Can hornet win vs void given focus

[gritty fractal]

probably not

[prime summit]

Coughing baby moment?

[whole marsh]

Potential charms:

• Long Claw (referred to as a talisman)
• Pin Badge
• Egg of Flealia
• Fractured Mask (maybe)

[gritty fractal]

fractured mask i think is just armor. the skarr that sells it to you in act 1 is even wearing it

[whole marsh]

Everything else is explicitly stated to be a physical thing (amulet, apparatus, literally what its name is, etc.)

That’s why I put maybe. Really only because it regenerates, but eh, that’s probably a gameplay over lore thing

[gritty fractal]

it regens because hornet repairs it

[covert night]

fetus vs 1 trillion hydrogen bombs

[whole marsh]

[pulsar python]

The mask is also stated to be a physical thing, it's called 'a cut out piece of skull used for protection'

She presumably uses it to block an attack

[whole marsh]

It doesn’t take she’ll shards to repair

[gritty fractal]

it plays the crafting animation when sitting at the bench after it is broken

[whole marsh]

Even if you don’t craft weapons?

[gritty fractal]

yes

[pulsar python]

You could probably tie it together with silk, it's not like Red Tools where they completely disappear or blow up upon meeting their use

[whole marsh]

Interesting, I didn’t know that. Well that settles it, it’s literally just a mask she uses for extra armor.

[gritty fractal]

the annoying thing is that because its repaired at a bench its useless against first sinner since she doesnt send you back to the bench but it doesnt count as an actual dream like the deep memory bosses
idk whats up with that

[vague timber]

okay i have a genuine question
what are craws? are they bugs that use cloth like bird wings? why do they all have beaks?! what are the fayforn? is the fayforn an actual real bird?

[gritty fractal]

like it doesnt kill steel soul, it doesn make a cocoon
but it does use shards and the mask

[gritty fractal]

they are definitely not birds

fayforn

you can see it has a bug body beneath the fluff

not really sure what to make of fayforn if she is a higher being or just some manner of legendary creature

[strange blade]

The Birdiance.

[whole marsh]

I’m not sure if the craws are actually bugs or not tbh. Functionally, they’re crows, but obviously they’re not literal crows/birds.

[gritty fractal]

hornet calls them bugs

[whole marsh]

Ah

[pulsar python]

Craws also have bug bodies like the fayforn

[whole marsh]

I thought they were referred to as bugs, but couldn’t remember/find the text

[wary zinc]

hydrogen bomb morelike

hornet’s no coughing baby, but void given focus is just a hydrogen bomb

I’m sure he’s got a better name

[whole marsh]

Ah yeah, I’m lookin at pics of them now, you’re right. I never noticed that. Probably because they won’t SIT STILL

[whole marsh]

Hydrogen bomb vs a spider with a titanium exoskeleton

[wary zinc]

wolverine’s adamantine skeleton moment

there’s a reason roaches survive nuclear war

[whole marsh]

I don’t like thought of muckroaches outliving hornet in that scenarios

[prime summit]

So hornet no chance on void given focus

[whole marsh]

Nope

Well, maybe if she’s in her Weaver Queen form, because then she’ll at least be a true higher being. But honestly she’d probably still lose, just not as quick.

[gritty fractal]

Maybe weaver queen Hornet would fair better than Silk did but tbf Silk was just delaying the inevitable

it would probably still end the same

[teal drift]

Muckroaches could beat void given focus with prep time.

[gritty fractal]

what are muckroaches doing in their prep time... do you mean they would just breed

[cobalt coyote]

Roach given food Beats void given focus

[teal drift]

Vgf when muchroaches hit them with the grab attack.

[teal drift]

Deep thought.

[oak thicket]

Are true ending spoilers allowed here?

[cobalt coyote]

A billion lions versus the sun

[whole marsh]

Yeh

[cobalt coyote]

The roaches jumping into void

That one leap they di

Do

[oak thicket]

I want to know how hornet removed the void from lace. I know the void loses its grip on her during the fight, but this method is never mentioned before this. Does it have to do with the Everbloom, or is there some kind of ritual at play?

Trying to wrap my brain around it

[cobalt coyote]

The void got owchies and left

[gritty fractal]

its kind of mentioned in the Lost Garmond fight that you kinda just need to beat the Void out of them but not elaborated on

[oak thicket]

Wait the void leaves Garamond when you beat him? I gotta take a second look

[gritty fractal]

he doesnt physically change appearance

[cobalt coyote]

Yeah hes just sleeping now for sure

Surely just sleeping

[gritty fractal]

just dialogue from hornet suggesting it

[whole marsh]

I think the silk is what stoped her from being completely corrupted. GMS is able to resist the void with her silk (not entirely and not forever mind you). And since Lace is made of Silk, rather than corrupting her from within, it encased her in a shell to control her. GMS could have also buffed Lace or made a barrier around her shell to buy her some more time.

It’s not explained at all how she was able to save Lace, but that’s my best guess.

[gritty fractal]

since Lace is made of Silk, the void formed around her just like it does to GMS's threads. It appears to be different than what it does to Garmond and others

rather its the same thing but acts different i mean

because void possession seems to work because of the silk inside the bugs of pharloom

[oak thicket]

Rewatched the fight. Upon his defeat, the dark threads are expelled from him. This does imply that if the host sustains too much damage, the void will nope out.

Now that I think on it, does this not happen in the original HK when the player takes a death? The shade does leaves the shell, after all.

[whole marsh]

Ah I never considered that!

[oak thicket]

Good point. With the bugs, the silk is on the inside. With lace, it’s on the outside. Berlioz could be right in the idea that silk was added to Lace post-snare to stave off the void for a little longer.

[whole marsh]

I think TK is a different case. It’s void wearing the “skin” of a bug. That’s more like Iron Man’s suit breaking and Tony Stark becoming exposed.

[vague timber]

it seems like soul can't be fully consumed by void
in hollow knight, the player contains the soul within them after striking a creature
since silk seems to be thread spun of soul, it seems like the void just clings to it instead of eating it fully

[gritty fractal]

void possession is a thing that is hinted at in HK by dream nail dialogue of the royal retainer in the lighthouse, but its not the same as what happens in SS act 3

[vague timber]

at the very least, it's harder for void to chew its way through soul

[gritty fractal]

silk infused into the bugs seems to make it much easier for the void to control them

[whole marsh]

Yeah it seems like it’s infecting the silk to control the bugs. It’s not the same as being exposed to pure void, like the Love Key Bug or the PK’s offspring in HK.

[oak thicket]

Void can detect soul, and will actively seek it out. Seeing as the silk is spun from soul, it makes sense that it would immediately gravitate toward it.

Actually, that opens up a new question. If Lace is spun from Silk, and Silk is spun from soul, does that not make Lace a being entirely born of soul?

[whole marsh]

Yes, but actually no

She’s like 50% physical silk 50% soul.

[clever rapids]

i like how the surface is like so barren, almost like mars' surface in outer space

[whole marsh]

Weaver Silk is unique because it’s physical silk infused with Soul. So Lace still has to be at least 50% physical Silk so the soul has something to be infused into.

[gritty fractal]

what is the surface btw
is it the surface of just pharloom or the surface of the world
(since everything seems to be underground as it is eternally dark and Hornet even refers to the beyond as "caves" at one point)

[whole marsh]

Well she’s probably like 99% Silk and 1% Shell, considering her face is black. (As is likely her exoskeleton under her white parts)

[oak thicket]

So Lace’s soul doesn’t exist like a normal bug, where the soul is (presumably) located within a singular point of the body. Instead, her soul is dispersed evenly throughout the silk that makes her up. Am I on the wrong track?

[harsh jacinth]

One of the most interesting lore additions from Silksong, for me personally, ||is the elaboration of 'pale beings.' I really thought that we weren't going to revisit the concept, or that maybe it referred exclusively to the Pale King and the White Lady, but the open confirmation that Grand Mother Silk is also a pale being opens so many more questions||.

[gritty fractal]

there are also tablets like the ones in hallownest written by pale beings in pharloom's abyss

[whole marsh]

I believe her physical body is a frail (black) shell, similar to GMS, encased in white silk. Inside of her shell, I would think is just pure soul (like her essence). I think that’s the case because she’s seemingly able to astral project even though her body is encased in Void.

Her nature, is unique to natural born bugs, so idk if the soul inside of her shell would function exactly the same as a normal bug’s. But this is all heavy speculation because none of this is explicitly stated in game. Just kinda vaguely alluded to.

[gritty fractal]

what's interesting about the abyss lore tablets is the implication that even in the nigh-prehistoric time of the ancient civilization, the pale beings were there worshipping the void

In darkness your form,
We higher who see you seeking,
Our shells yearn for your embrace. 
Erase our fear,
Eliminate our desire,
To suffer no more,
Void, cleanse us.```

[oak thicket]

Right… but astral projection isn’t something you see a lot of characters do. The only bugs I can think of that have done this are the dreamers. Does this mean that Lace has access to the dream realm in some manner?

[harsh jacinth]

||Well there was definitely something worshipping the void, but would it really have been pale beings? All the pale beings we've seen have been higher beings described as a 'light' (in the case of the Pale King and GMS), and the void is described as being opposed to all light, including the Radiance and the PK||

[gritty fractal]

Phantom can also project in the form of the Wraiths tho its not near what Lace can do

[eternal roost]

Is there any grubfly in ss

[wary zinc]

the majority of the time “tools” are either non-diagetic or refer to red tools (as practical use), but both NPC’s and hornet (verbal, and in her journal/notes) use the word: (all instances it’s not referring to plain red tools, or player text)

[gritty fractal]

no

[eternal roost]

Aw

[whole marsh]

No I don’t think so. The dreamers seemed to have their souls locked away in the dream realm on purpose as part of the sealing process. I think Lace is just able to project locally because she’s probably just an empty shell (filled with soul) on the inside. So it’s easier for her to separate from her physical body.

Either that or it’s a result of something GMS did to keep her from being completely corrupted to buy her some more time.

[harsh jacinth]

||Not the dream realm, there was no essence in any of the 'projection' scenes, but maybe something similar.||

[gritty fractal]

only higher beings can create or read these, as established in hollow knight by the line "higher beings these words are for you alone"

[oak thicket]

The wraiths (according to the hunters journal) are made of silk and smog. They are created separate from the other beings, so I don’t think projection is involved here. I also have another observation: Lace doesn’t pull this trick until AFTER she’s plunged into the void. She likely doesn’t hold this power on her own, or she likely would have used it to hinder Hornet in some way.

Which begs the question: where does this power come from? We see void particles around her when she materializes/dematerializes, so it could be connected to that. But we really don’t have any definitive answers, as far as I can tell.

[gritty fractal]

if they didnt intend for these tablets in the abyss to be from higher beings, they wouldnt use that design or the phrase "we higher" when referring to the writer

[harsh jacinth]

||Mm, I'm not so sure about that. I think the idea only higher beings can read it is possible, but I doubt only higher beings can create them. After all, that table that says 'Higher beings, these words are for you alone.' You, not us, implying whatever created it wasn't/weren't higher beings.||

[harsh jacinth]

||Ohhh, that's a good point though.||
||I wonder if there were other void based higher beings in the past...?||

||The only real issue I have with the idea of higher beings worshipping void is higher beings are gods/god-like creatures that are worshipped themselves, which makes it feel weird they in turn would worship something else. Then again, the Void Entity is the 'God of Gods' according to Godseeker...||

[gritty fractal]

we know very little about the ancient civilization that predates all modern kingdoms beyond it worshipped the void

[gentle aspen]

That’s not true

[harsh jacinth]

True...

[gentle aspen]

for one those tablets are basically PK’s propaganda in HK, any higher being would know those are false

two, we’re told Ellina can read them (author of the irl wanderer’s journal) and she’s not a higher being

If you’re asserting the ancient civilization had a higher being as well, the implication from the void idol entry is that they didn’t

[dire lynx]

So hes from Pharloom, right?

[dense aspen]

Are weavers bugs or are they another species

[gritty fractal]

weavers are pharlids just evolved by GMS

[pulsar python]

They're evolved pharlids

[harsh jacinth]

...Potentially?
I mean I doubt he was created with the idea of Pharloom in mind, but if the backer so chooses, he could be retconned as a member of the coral guys, yeah

[gentle aspen]

“Inspired or mad those ancients bugs, they worshiped no lord, no power and no strength, but the very darkness themselves”

[dense aspen]

What are pharlids

[zinc pivot]

By bug standard they would be quite a cut of their own

[zinc pivot]

Those 4 eyes spooders

[dense aspen]

So they are bugs

[harsh jacinth]

Yes

[whole marsh]

I view Weavers as equivalent to a demigod (like Hornet). Still a bug, but a bug with higher power.

[zinc pivot]

They are the mule of bug world

Mules are stronger than horse and donkeys but infertile

[dense aspen]

So they can't breed with eachother

Weavers I mean

[gritty fractal]

my assertion is the pale beings or at least their ancestors were present at the ancient civilization.
they were still "higher beings" even then because they are not primitive bugs but something greater.
team cherry would not have used the same lore tablets the king used if they didnt want their to be a connection

[zinc pivot]

Yeah, they are an all female race too

[pulsar python]

As far as we know they can only breed with other bug species

[whole marsh]

Higher Beings aren’t exclusively Pale Beings, remember Unn?

[dense aspen]

Now it makes sense why herrah wanted the pale king

[pulsar python]

The Giant light moth in the corner of the room:

[harsh jacinth]

True, they aren't synonymous
||Pale beings are a subset of higher beings, that so far consist of the Pale King, the White Lady, and Grand Mother Silk. Higher beings that are not pale beings include the Radiance, Unn, and the Nightmare's Heart.||

[zinc pivot]

The emperor of bugkind doesn’t know why the queen of weaver race wants his genetics?

[whole marsh]

I’m still mad Rad isn’t considered a pale being even though she’s literally white

[dire lynx]

her light is yellow

[edgy barn]

Her light is literally yellow and described as blazing

[dense aspen]

Is the nightmare heart sentient

[harsh jacinth]

||It's also implied it's hard for them to reproduce, or at least reproduce with the same power of GMS- Eva was a failed experiment to 'mimic divinity' and it's implied this desire for that is the reason Herrah bargained for a child with the Pale King when he came up with the whole dreamer idea.||

[gritty fractal]

it is implied by a dialogue between Eva and Hornet that Weavers breeding is a difficult or even painful process that is difficult to overcome
tho clearly possible even outside of the unique circumstances of Hornet's birth because the cages in the Cradle deatil the purity of the Weaver's bloodline indicating they do in fact breed with other bugs

[gentle aspen]

that’s a baseless assertion to make and I already noted that those tablets aren’t only able to be read by higher beings

[whole marsh]

I know, but still

[dire lynx]

missed the gods of thunder and rain

[harsh jacinth]

||Her fur is white, but she's described as a light "brighter than Essence." Pale beings are also described as lights, but they seem to be softer, colder lights as opposed to the overwhelming light of the Radiance.||

[harsh jacinth]

Not enough information

[zinc pivot]

I doubt it since Herrah clearly wanted Hornet to live her own life free from weaver’s weights

[pulsar python]

I mean the only info we get on them is from Godseeker and she's not exactly a reliable narrator

[harsh jacinth]

||Unsure. Don't really know a lot about it other than it uses the Grimm Troupe Ritual to obtain new vessels to inhabit.||

[dense aspen]

I wonder what luciens whole deal was

[zinc pivot]

So i think she just wanted Pale King to sire her child, believing in the godly power that surpass her cursed bloodline

[dire lynx]

you dont need to put spoilers on everything, this is a spoiler channel

[dense aspen]

Is the grimmchild a vessle

[harsh jacinth]

||She didn't want Hornet to be burdened by the expectations the Weavers had for her, that doesn't necessarily mean she didn't desire the Pale King's power for her own lineage.||

[harsh jacinth]

I figured, but I was still playing it safe

[zinc pivot]

Weavers would include herself really

[edgy barn]

Yes, you could say Grimm is to the Nightmare Heart what THK is to the Radiance, only willingly

[pulsar python]

The nightmare's heart is sentient and essentially a hivemind with Grimm if I remember, he acts on the Nightmare hearts whim which is why a new Grimmchild must be raised to become a stronger Grimm

[dense aspen]

I wonder if hornet was ever discriminated against for being a weaver

[gritty fractal]

sapient is the word you are looking for and yes most likely

[harsh jacinth]

You mean Lurien?
Not really sure he had a deal, other than he was devout to the Pale King and agreed to be a Dreamer simply because he was asked

He's the one who advocates for keeping the Seals intact when you encounter the Dreamers

[dense aspen]

I mean what the fuck was he doing
Why was he watching

[gentle aspen]

fed

[harsh jacinth]

Oh
🤷‍♂️
Probably just a title, he was most likely a city official or higher-up of some kind
He must have been at least decently important if he was selected by the Pale King to be one of the three Dreamers

[whole marsh]

The guy you give the music cylinders to talks down to Hornet for being part weaver

[dense aspen]

I meant in her childhood

She was royalty

[harsh jacinth]

He says it would be better if the Weavers stayed dead like he thought they were, but he acknowledges her nobility(?) and defers to her regardless

[dense aspen]

Wonder if that balanced it out

[edgy barn]

How many people would have been brave enough to (openly) discriminate against the god king's daughter?

[whole marsh]

Eh he seems to do so begrudgingly. And talks shit about weavers (comparing you to them) if you attack him

[dense aspen]

I still wonder wht the surface of the hollow knight world looks like

[pulsar python]

He was probably around when the Weavers fled their citadel given he's a vaultkeeper, so that could be that he still sees them as above him but holds resentment

[harsh jacinth]

It's... possible? It's implied she spent the majority of her adolescence being raised by the White Lady rather than the Weavers. I suppose it's possible she could've received some upturned noses just because of Deepnest's reputation but given the White Lady's feelings about her it seems unlikely

[dire lynx]

we see it in SS

[dense aspen]

Ehh be brave enough you can say anything

[dense aspen]

No way

[harsh jacinth]

No yeah, that much is true

[dense aspen]

Is it a secret area

[whole marsh]

Unconfirmed

[zinc pivot]

The nameless town is implied to be on surface based on the surface memento

[dense aspen]

Send pictures

[zinc pivot]

Its an act 3 climb from cradle btw

[gritty fractal]

on top of the cradle in act 3

[harsh jacinth]

Nah, we just see bits and pieces based on the opening cutscene
That and yes, the nameless town and also Dirtmouth and the Howling Cliffs from the first game

[dense aspen]

Yeah yeah ill check it out after I kill ll

[gritty fractal]

need to silksoar up

[harsh jacinth]

Unrelated, but I absolutely hated that climb /lh

[dense aspen]

That's underground

[whole marsh]

Everyone thought Dirtmouth was on the surface until TC’s community rep casually informed us it isn’t.

[dense aspen]

The opening cutscene is entirely under the surface

[dire lynx]

nameless town

[harsh jacinth]

The Howling Cliffs? I mean partially, but a lot of it is above ground

[edgy barn]

I have kindly choosen to just ignore that detail

[zinc pivot]

Dirtmouth is like
A valley

[gritty fractal]

lol no the entire world is a cavern

[harsh jacinth]

...Are you sure?
I was fairly certain Dirtmouth is above ground

[dense aspen]

No it's not

Tc comfrimed every place in the og i underground

Nothing is above ground

[dense aspen]

No

[dense aspen]

Ehh it's probably a dirt mouth situation

Untill I see sunlight i will be skeptical

[harsh jacinth]

Really???
huh, I never heard that
Was it a tweet or something?

[gritty fractal]

theres nothing up there. there are some primitive bugs and a small abandoned settlement

[whole marsh]

Someone from Team Cherry mentiond in in this discord a while back

[dense aspen]

Yeah and it's probably still below ground

[whole marsh]

It's not stated in game, before that everyone assumed it was above ground

[dire lynx]

the item is the surface momento, what would that mean if not the surface

[pulsar python]

Pharloom is higher up than Hallownest (the exit to presumably Howling Cliffs is in blasted steps) and the surface is above even the Citadel's peak

[harsh jacinth]

Huh
I'd like to see it tbh, this is interesting

[edgy barn]

Much higher than the citadel's peak

[dense aspen]

Could be like the howling cliffs where it looks like the surface

[whole marsh]

Not much to see, their community manager casually mentioned it and everyone collectivly lost their mind (he thought this was an already known thing lol)

[dire lynx]

but this is actually called the surface, unlike howling cliffs. its also far higher up

[pulsar python]

No it is the surface, it's absurdly high up

[dense aspen]

Like is it above ground

[harsh jacinth]

Yeah no, I
Always assumed Dirtmouth and the surrounding areas were above ground, since you have to go under to reach Hallownest

[pulsar python]

Yes

[dire lynx]

thats why its called the surface

[pulsar python]

You go through the top of pharloom to get to it

[whole marsh]

Inb4 it's revealed in a DLC that the Hollow Knight world has the same layout as the Bionicle world

[gritty fractal]

the wastelands are likely not entirely flat and change elevation a lot. in any case pharloom is definitely higher elevation given how far you have to go to get to the abyss
while the ancient basin/abyss isnt that deep into hallownest

the abyss is the only real baseline for elevation we have

[dense aspen]

Not comfrimed

[edgy barn]

Has anyone lined up the two maps using the void sea level?

[gritty fractal]

would require a full size map with the abyss climb included
since on the actual in-game map that part gets cut off

[harsh jacinth]

I'm not sure, but that would be an interesting way to see it
If- yeah, that

[dense aspen]

Might be inaccurate

Cuz yknow

Dead children

[edgy barn]

Oh yeah I forgot about the playable climb...that puts Pharloom a lot higher that I was actually picturing in my head,

[harsh jacinth]

You know there was something I was thinking about that occurred to me
The Haunting has to be a relatively recent development within Pharloom. All the NPC's who talk about it discuss it as a 'sickness' that's been going around- if it was something that's been afflicting Pharloom for a while, they'd probably talk about in more historical terms (y'know, like 'That curse has been affecting bugs for a long time') or something like that. Idk, just the way they talk about it makes me think that it only recently started occurring which means it was only recently that GMS started breaking free of the prison the Weavers put her in.

[dire lynx]

thats right, pretty sure its stated outright to be recent

[gritty fractal]

i dont think the cocoon is a prison persay
it seems to be a form of protection for Silk
she creates a second one in the abyss where all her silk spreads threads spread through pharloom and the void takes over said threads

but yes seems like relatively recent shes begun to awaken

[harsh jacinth]

It's actually interesting to me that despite being the primary antagonists of their games, both the Radiance and Grand Mother Silk have tragic aspects to them- the Radiance was fine creating and being worshiped by the Moth Tribe until the Pale King convinced them to worship him instead and nearly condemned her to being forgotten
Grand Mother Silk was lulled into some kind of sleep by the Weavers who then took over (and probably built the Citadel), before they left and the Conductors proceeded to take over and massively mess up everything

[gritty fractal]

actually now that i think of it the track playing in the cradle and the fight itself is even called awakening

[dire lynx]

PK didnt convince anyone, moths just DGAF and follow the brightest light

the moth tribe suck

[harsh jacinth]

Mmm, that would still be the Radiance then
The Pale King is a different light, but I doubt he's brighter than the Radiance
Either way, yes, they did choose to follow the Pale King, but it's pretty clear he encouraged them to do so, or at the least didn't discourage the near banishing of the Radiance

[polar moon]

what happened to khann

[dire lynx]

citadel

[wary zinc]

only some are labeled for higher beings, notably, not the ones hornet reads

[pure belfry]

what is the actual lore of Fourth Chorus? Its journal entry doesn't really reveal anything. It's just some construct of the Citadel but I couldn't find anything relating to its actual purpose.

[harsh jacinth]

Not sure
He did sit on a throne though and bugs who sit on thrones in this world seem to have a propensity to die on them /lh

[harsh jacinth]

I'm not sure if it's actually stated why they were originally built, but it's implied the reason it was in Far Fields was because it was sent after the Seamstress

[flint wadi]

they likely were citadels war machines and means of defense

[dire lynx]

coral forest was dried up probably because of the citadel redirecting the river that flowed through it

[polar moon]

no? It's literally said that they were like used for transportation of materials

[flint wadi]

one of them was dispatched to capture seamstress

[gritty fractal]

it seems like it was trying to hunt the seamstress
it has one of her pins lodged in its neck before awakening

also its filled with a LOT of the silk flies that were created in the white ward

[polar moon]

oh

[flint wadi]

one of them was literally sent out to target seamstress

[polar moon]

ye my wrong sorry

[gritty fractal]

you can see the silk flies escaping through its eyes when it is slain

[wary zinc]

seemingly big “automatons” (powered by dozens of moths, which are themselves, transformed souls of citizens after death, used as a power source), I can’t say theiroriginal purpose, but the fourth chorus hardly seems like it was a rogue agent. so they were probably for labour and defense.
[this is not confirmed]

[gritty fractal]

i guess that is why it is called a chorus
because it is controlled by many different voices

[dire lynx]

theres no reason to think PK even knew radiance existed until the infection appeared

[flint wadi]

yeah theyre a chorus because its more than one fly's voice

[harsh jacinth]

Y'know, i'm curious why the Silk Flies don't have a journal entry given their importance in Pharloom
The Charged Lumaflies had one in the first game

[pure belfry]

I actually didn't notice that part about the pin. That's cool. It also kinda hypes up the actual strength of the Seamstress a little bit. I hope we get a boss fight with her in dlc maybe

[wary zinc]

you’d think maybe there’d be a case in whiteward

[whole marsh]

It may have been sent to kill the Seamstress, as it's located near her, and you can see a pin jammed in it's neck before it wakes up again. It also appears to be feuled by a ton of lumabug/soul flies (which is what happens to citadel workers when they are no longer useful [cant sing, or shell is beyond repair]). When you kill it a ton of these white flies fly out of it's eyes, and if you play the Nedolin, it refers to itself being as many.

It's essentially just a big war machine fueled by the souls of the kingdom.