sk-lore

[mint stratus]

Proboscis

[whole holly]

Cosmetic Void Implants and Injections

[whole holly]

yes, yes , yes

[tacit anvil]

What if lace got a nose tendril job

🤔

[whole holly]

that would require many rosaries

[tacit anvil]

She would kind of look like a dove

[tacit anvil]

Thats just sad

Hornet you dont have to fill out that form its ok

[mint stratus]

The economy held up despite most of the generated revenue going to buzzsaws

[atomic dirge]

Hey i mean if it wasnt for that hornet wouldnt have learned to ask twelfth architect for the cogwheel

[whole holly]

Hornet should bind pale kings corpse to absorb knowledge and gain powers , she will know why pale king did everything, and she will unlock wyrm crest

[atomic dirge]

Hey spider check out my new cut

[prime summit]

Pharloom vs Hallownest all out war chat

[timber pond]

idk bro pharllom Got Choruses 😭

[mint stratus]

You thought it was Lace, But it was I Steel Assassin Sharp

[tacit anvil]

It turns her into a worm like the snail crest in hollow knight and makes her stronger when fighting grand mother silk specifically (Pro abortion)

[timber pond]

As any army, The general troops of Pharloom are much stronger. But hallownest has like, some heavy hitters in comand.

[tacit anvil]

I just called a charm. A crest

[mint stratus]

Silksong has infected your terminology, soon we will start calling charms tools

[tacit anvil]

😭

[mint stratus]

I’ve heard people calling the knights nail a needle unironically

Soon soul will be defacto silk

[whole holly]

Every other bug uses pin ,in pharloom

I hope we unlock dream pin to access dreams in DLC

[mint stratus]

I mean the elegy of the deep and needolin dialogue

[atomic dirge]

I still call the needle nail

[whole holly]

Sure but I want to see essence particles

[mint stratus]

You know what fair, you’ve convinced me

[whole holly]

Yay

[narrow glacier]

So what are our weapon types so far? Needles, Nails, and Pins

[tacit anvil]

Noses

[mint stratus]

Would tools count?

[timber pond]

uhh Lugois ladle? lol

[tacit anvil]

And butt too

[timber pond]

scissors

[whole holly]

Can’t wait for toothpick in next game

[atomic dirge]

Oh yeah sentinel's scissorblade

[mint stratus]

You mean like the hive knights?

[whole holly]

Really I thought hive made hornets needle with their incredible metalworking

[elfin minnow]

why did hornet kill the gays for no reason 🤔

[mint stratus]

Also I think everyone is overlooking sheo fighting with a paintbrush

[narrow glacier]

They did

[whole holly]

She had to expore area at any cost

[whole holly]

Does hive knight have same weapon?

[elfin minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/hive-knight-bees-hk-hollow-knight-gif-8016209625652573639

it looks like a toothpick

[mint stratus]

BEEHOLD

[whole holly]

lol it does

[elfin minnow]

why did hive knight gave birth mid fight 🗿

[mint stratus]

I think he chose the bees at applebees

[atomic dirge]

Hornet actually does say why she kills the 4th heart boss at least if its Karmelita

[elfin minnow]

why

[tacit anvil]

Sea horse logic

[whole holly]

I hope Abyss Creature and Unn repopulate greenpath and make it Cyanpath because blue and green make cyan

[stuck berry]

hive knight eats bees theory

developed by yours truly

[atomic dirge]

Just to test herself LMAO

[mint stratus]

Who is she talking to?

[atomic dirge]

Gilly

They appear in Karmelita's room after you kill her

[stuck berry]

"mmmmmm yeahhhhhhh i kinda killed her just to see if i could.... sorry........ you gotta rebuild ts kthxbye"

[whole holly]

We need sylphean slug in DLC

[mint stratus]

“Gilly I needed her heart for my shelf memento”

[elfin minnow]

so it means shes homophobic if she kills the gays the last

[mint stratus]

Mercy killing

[elfin minnow]

just because why not

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-silksong-cogwork-cogworks-cogwork-dancers-gif-762033653749454765

[mint stratus]

They can’t be called the gay lovers when there’s only one of them

[atomic dirge]

I love how the entirety of the green prince quest is hornet just fucking around

"why did you free me"
"Idk the key fit"

[stuck berry]

did you know you can avoid killing this one and it gets slower and slower until it dies by itself

[atomic dirge]

"why did you follow me here"
"The way was open"

[elfin minnow]

fr?

proof?

[stuck berry]

fakest idgafers in history trying not to look compassionate or thankful

[stuck berry]

it was revealed to me in a dream

[elfin minnow]

breh

[stuck berry]

i heard this secondhand from someone else let me find a video

[atomic dirge]

"i miss my kingdom and my partner"
"Take some solace in knowing the kingdom was doomed either way"
"Can you fuck off from my mind"

[elfin minnow]

imma try it

[mint stratus]

Hornet inherited her fathers tact

[stuck berry]

hornet cannot read the room

[atomic dirge]

"what do you mean you lost verdania go find it"

[mint stratus]

Well I mean she kinda can if she gets everyone to sing along with her needolin

[stuck berry]

imo she mercy killed him because his grief was very strong because she had no actual reason to do that if she had the other hearts

[stuck berry]

that would be hearing the room

[mint stratus]

We don’t know if she can see subtitles

[opal beacon]

I'm in the far fields. What it activates?

[mint stratus]

Power

[stuck berry]

nothing it's for lore

[opal beacon]

For this?

[elfin minnow]

still does nothing

[whole holly]

when am i supposed to activate it?

[mint stratus]

Thank you for your sacrifice having to prolong the last phase of that fight 😔

[elfin minnow]

its been 2 minutes and its still going

[stuck berry]

is it slower

than it was a minute ago

[mint stratus]

Can you get the green prince to the fight before you kill the cogwork dancers?

[stuck berry]

could it be that i was lied to... no....

[elfin minnow]

do i have to wait for 1 hour 😐

[stuck berry]

he can't spawn over there next to greymoor until act 3

[cobalt coyote]

It only happens after 20 minutes if you beat all the other bosses Man, also all fleas

[atomic dirge]

one thing I realized, the pilgrimage was made to be theoretically impossible

[stuck berry]

only theoretically?

[elfin minnow]

i aint falling for that!

[atomic dirge]

The statues in cogwork core say that to end the pilgrimage you need to play the threefold melody

[cobalt coyote]

They gonna sing it

[atomic dirge]

But Cardinius says the law states no one but vaultkeepers should know their melody

[cobalt coyote]

Bribe a vaultkeeper

Or just convince one to sing

[stuck berry]

sherma tries random noises and accidentally sings the right combination of notes to pass

[cobalt coyote]

And plug your ears

[orchid whale]

I think most pilgrims consider their pilgrimage complete once they grab a pretty white coat to wear tbf

[cobalt coyote]

GMS is weakened because of Sherma

[orchid whale]

Is Sherma the good guy?

[atomic dirge]

A pilgrim couldve realistically learned the other 2 melodies

[mint stratus]

The goodest

[cobalt coyote]

How they doing the cogwork core parkour man

[atomic dirge]

Architects knew the melody before Twelfth just forgor

[mint stratus]

Pray you can fly

[cobalt coyote]

Right

[atomic dirge]

Why did the architect forget the architect's melody are they stupid

[stuck berry]

small pilgrim #8873736 in the high halls watching two choir clappers fall from tne ceiling

https://tenor.com/view/worried-scared-oh-no-stop-it-fearful-gif-12534009

[orchid whale]

The issue with pilgrims playing the melodies is that would imply they would meet either Lace or GMS and I don’t think that’s likely lol.
Actually come to think of it, if the Citadel exists to seal GMS away, why are pilgrims encouraged to sing it that melody and ascend up to where GMS is?

[cobalt coyote]

I wonder what happened to pilby, you cant see him anywhere after pilgrims rest yeah?

[stuck berry]

i didn't find him anywhere

[atomic dirge]

Yea he just fuckin leaves

[elfin minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-silksong-cogwork-cogworks-cogwork-dancers-gif-762033653749454765

[terse warren]

To worship her directly.
Normally, GMS would be asleep so it'd be fine to see her

[cobalt coyote]

Didnt the statues say smth about praying to the heart of the citadel or something similar

[elfin minnow]

sad lonely gay clanker

[stuck berry]

becomes haunted and when you kill him he says piiiilbyyyyyyy

[cobalt coyote]

Can you actually find him?

[orchid whale]

I’m pretty sure GMS is still asleep when you meet her tbh.
If her goal is to wake up, then being active would imply she’s already accomplished this, in which it’s no longer her goal.

[terse warren]

She's not asleep otherwise the Haunting would not be happening. Or at the very least, she's beginning to wake up. Her goal is to get more Silk to sustain Lace.

[cobalt coyote]

All it took was one garama to wake her up

[orchid whale]

I feel like the fact GMS is in a coffin-esque pose and has her face blacked out is meant to visually symbolize she’s trapped in some sort of sleeping state, a trance she can’t wake from. That’s how I see it.

[terse warren]

Idk seems pretty awake to me

[orchid whale]

Can’t she produce silk?

[stuck berry]

it was from her pseudo granddaughter tbf

[terse warren]

She's not omnipotent so yes, but not enough

[orchid whale]

And the issue I have with saying she’s awake is like…
What’s the point of the game mentioning her waking up as a motivation so many times if she’s been awake the whole time?

Like that would just mean it isn’t an issue at all

[terse warren]

She is in the process of waking up during the Haunting

[orchid whale]

What does “in the process of waking up” even mean?

[terse warren]

Also wdym "motivation"

[orchid whale]

Its a goal is what I’m saying

[terse warren]

??? Stated where

[orchid whale]

Every time she’s stated to be asleep, it’s phrased as “She wishes to awaken”

[terse warren]

That she's awake but not fully

It's a god I don't think it's that farfetched

[orchid whale]

What does that even imply?

[terse warren]

Ok but like can you provide any dialogue for that

[orchid whale]

Heart of the Haunting, long lulled to slumber and desperate to wake.

[terse warren]

That's her Journal entry yeah

She's been asleep for generations and wants to wake up

But clearly since she can actually do stuff unlike before, she's not fully asleep, but partly awake

[orchid whale]

What can’t she do?

[terse warren]

The Haunting???

[orchid whale]

She can do that

[terse warren]

Which she couldn't do for the past millennia??

[orchid whale]

Okay so she’s already awake

And isn’t “in the process”

Either that or she’s capable of causing trouble in her sleeping state, hence her “desperation” to wake being relevant

Also, isn’t she in control of her cocoon? I feel like people are too quick to assume the cocoon is something she’s sealed in against her will. She creates a second cocoon in the Abyss.

She also controls silk, so I think the idea that her cocoon is something she chooses to stay in is plausible

Anyways, I’m not gonna claim I know everything, these are my own theories of course.
I think the idea that her sleeping state is still an issue is interesting though, and I like the idea that the position of her arms being akin to someone sleeping in a coffin, and her face being blackened, could imply she’s not really awake.
But that’s just me

[zinc pivot]

Alternatively, it could be thought of that shes hibernating in the cocoon
The seal is maintained by song and prayer after all

[pastel valve]

I have 2 questions. 1) why does widow look like that under her mask orb, did that get put there or is that how all weavers look and then 2) does hornet have what’s basically soft bunny ears under her shell?

[high violet]

My headcanon is that she's in a weakened state somehow due to the long sleep and song and prayer that kept her asleep

[scenic stirrup]

So do muckmaggots evolve into mucklarvae then into muckroaches

If so then the flea caravan will eat every muckmaggot in the world and save bilewater

🤝

[honest anvil]

that is presumably how weavers look under their masks and this means hornet is probably fuzzy

[crude marsh]

In the bestiary description it says her mask was forcibly removed. So either:

1. All weavers look like that under their masks
2. They put a cloth drape over the weavers face instead. Why? Could be humiliation, punishment- not really sure.

[gray iris]

why didnt hornet ride the pigeon bird up the citadel to kill mother silk

why didnt hornet ride the centipede into the abyss to haul lace back up

[crude marsh]

pigeon stupid

[near quiver]

personally leaning towards #2

[gray iris]

if hollow knight 2 were a good game we would be able to feed the dumb ass fast travel bug and its babies to the centipede to befriend it

[crude marsh]

Agreed

[gray iris]

fucking dumb fast travel bug dont even go to abyss

[near quiver]

similar treatment to the penitents in the slab

[gray iris]

dont even go above the cradle

[near quiver]

erm, do the bellveins extend that far ☝️🤓

I am afrayde not...

[gray iris]

fun fact the pigeon is a bug

[crude marsh]

True, and i think the cloth being a sort of punishment fits with the fact that widow has two large steel pins stabbed into their back also as a form of punishment.

[gray iris]

it is so sad they locked widows mom in jail

[crude marsh]

😔

[ember river]

I think widow's cloth is just a cover for her true face, since her mask was broken and all

[gray iris]

it is so fucked up how they gave the little crab spiders silk powers and shit if i were mother silk i would have given the moss crawlers in putrified ducts silk powers they would be unstoppable

[crude marsh]

yeah i think so too

[crude marsh]

they deserve it

[lusty imp]

why the weaver betray gms?? they got power from her, even though she lies about them, but they are still become more powerfull cause of gms

[gray iris]

i cant wait until hollow knight 3 comes out in 2035 i bet we gonna fight a white butterfly god as zote that rains spikes on u and poisons u and the true final boss is gonna be the snail god of the abyss and we have to use the butterfly gods lifeblood powers to tank the snail gods life drain and zote is gonna become the hollow vessel of life blood at the end and rebirth hallownest and pharloom or something

[pastel valve]

That sounds about right I suppose. And it’s not like you can see much of anything in first sinners eggshell

[ember river]

They wanted to rule alone

[gray iris]

what is the lore reason hornets mom is so fat

its weird cuz the other weavers we see are all skinny

[near quiver]

queen

[gray iris]

did grand mother silk choose the fattest spider crab to make hornets mom

or did silk make hornets mom from some other bug that just happens to be fat

this feels like a traiter lord situation cuz like the traiter lord is the only fat mantis

the weavers probably rebelled because they allied with other factions in pharloom such as groal and abyss thats why we see a weave nest in bile water and a weave nest in abyss

so its probably not a matter of the weavers collectively deciding to fight the mother silk but they just happened to ally with other factions in pharloom

and also the ant people

[narrow glacier]

The Weaver nests predate Pharloom as a citadel/kingdom.

The Abyss was called. The Weavenest in the area predates the arrival of the abyss.

The Weavers fled after passing the burden of maintaining GMS’ prison/citadel onto the bugs of Pharloom.

[gray iris]

yeah but the ant people and groal people were there long before that

[fresh badger]

Traitor mantises are fat because theyre bloated by fanta, not genetics

[gray iris]

look at this shit u cannot tell me these are the same species

i think the canon lore is thar mother silk made hornets mom out of a big roach or something

[zinc pivot]

I wonder if weavers can bind other creatures similar to hornet

Because i think thats how herrah drastically changed

[narrow glacier]

I always said that Beast crest was just Hornet channeling her mother

[solemn hinge]

Damn, a woman can’t even be fat anymore

Smh

[zinc pivot]

I mean unless we can tell the common weaver features herrah does feel like a different species

[solemn hinge]

Hallownest beauty standards are so toxic 🤦‍♀️

[zinc pivot]

If flukemarm is still considered alluring i think you are barking up the wrong tree

[solemn hinge]

Fr tho, considering GMS turned regular bugs into Weavers, and Herrah is (iirc) a first gen weaver, it’s not crazy to assume that GMS didn’t turn a specific species into Weavers

[crude marsh]

Probably

also makes sense why shes one of the only weavers that have been able to birth a child from what I know

she originates from a diff species

[solemn hinge]

It’s the only one that we have seen ourselves, iirc

[crude marsh]

true true

[zinc pivot]

If that was the case hornet wouldn’t say herrah surpassed her limits and gave birth to her

[crude marsh]

Oh she says that? mb i didnt see it

[solemn hinge]

I gotta say, of the “retcons” Silksong has, or at least the ones I’ve seen, I quite like all of them

[zinc pivot]

Twas during her chat with eva

[solemn hinge]

I wonder what Needle Hornet she used in HK

[crude marsh]

oh gotcha

[solemn hinge]

Based on this description, I’ll assume she used the Sharpened Needle

[zinc pivot]

The same thing

[solemn hinge]

Well I mean what tier

I assume she wasn’t using the crusty ass one from the start of Silksong

[zinc pivot]

I’m inclined to say needle 0
She has beat up many horde of choristors and many vessels

[solemn hinge]

I’d argue needle 1 myself, but fair

[zinc pivot]

Its funny how continuously sharpening make the needle show some inner strength
Like plinney thats not really how real blade works

[solemn hinge]

I mean

[zinc pivot]

Unless the slug has a restoration quality

[ebon silo]

It's kinda cool skarr people use big skulls to look bigger and shit

[solemn hinge]

I really hope we get Steel DLC and also maybe a Hive one?

[ebon silo]

Hive probably not

[solemn hinge]

Or at least some Hive stuff at any point

[ebon silo]

Steel dlc yes

[solemn hinge]

Even just touching on it more in dialogue

[zinc pivot]

Unless Hive follows the same bee trait of spreading princesses
I doubt we will be having any more info

[solemn hinge]

Yeah

[earnest badge]

Yooo

No one’s active

For three whole minutes

[crude marsh]

What do you guys think of the little weavers in deepnest btw? They look like baby weavers, but now we know weavers cant typically have children.

Someone made a good theory that due to the way the Radiances infection reduces bugs to a more primal mental state- it does the same for the weavers, but also shrinking them back down into pharlid size. This could be because they lose their enlightenment from GMS due to now being influenced by the Radiance.

[solemn hinge]

Interesting thought

[versed agate]

Always thought they were pets or something

[solemn hinge]

That would be a little odd

[crude marsh]

Yeah i think i thought similar when i played hollow knight, but now i think im settling on the radiance theory

only thing that makes sense in my mind tbh

[versed agate]

Like the weaverlings kinda

[solemn hinge]

Okay they are called “little weavers”

Kinda forgot if they were confirmed weavers or not lmao

[crude marsh]

yeah their name straight up confirms that they are weavers in some way

[crude marsh]

weaverlings might be the same thing idk abt them ngl

like weavers reduced to smol

[solemn hinge]

The wiki categorizes Weaverlings as constructs

[crude marsh]

Ahhh i see

So yeah theyre simply a creation of the weavers, not actual weavers

[solemn hinge]

I suppose so, yeah

Tbf that makes a lot more sense

[crude marsh]

OH i never even

connected the dots

[versed agate]

if they would make constructs that are just miniature weavers why wouldn't they make pets that are also just miniature weavers

That's my logic anyways

[zinc pivot]

It is remarked that they are both tiny and transient

[zinc pivot]

The last time something big was made
It was eva

[crude marsh]

True but theres nothing to really support that imo. The little weavers have even the red cloths that regular weavers typically wear- not to mention the cloth the little weavers wear is torn and disheveled. I think that points towards them previously being weavers, now reduced to a form thats similar to pharlids

[crude marsh]

Thats really interesting, i feel like that probably proves it further

[stoic estuary]

One thing I do like is how we see on screen how a Weaver came to be

[crude marsh]

I love that too, its rlly cool
When i saw that it was a pharlid I was shocked because I knew i had seen that bug in pharloom somewhere

[versed agate]

Probably

[stoic estuary]

Yeah I think the whole losing enlightenment thing and becoming more like the pharlids their ancestors once where is cool

[solemn hinge]

Even if it kinda sucks for them lmao

[stoic estuary]

Same I was like, did we just casually get the birth of weavers on screen

[crude marsh]

yeah 😭

[stoic estuary]

LMAO ye

[versed agate]

You think maybe the messages outside of Hellenist are written in silk? And also the one you can find in pharloom perhaps

[solemn hinge]

Outside of Whatnow

[versed agate]

Mb

Hallownest autocorrected to that for some reason

[solemn hinge]

Lmao

Uhhh iunno

[elder rune]

Say, I wonder What the other spider enemies of Deepnest are? ‘Cus we never see Stalking Devouts, Little Weavers, or any other of such enemies within Silksong and I’m just curious to what they are. Native inhabitants of Deepnest? Silk constructs?

[solemn hinge]

Kinda depends

Like, Dirtcarvers are def completely unrelated to the Weavers

[elder rune]

Oh 100%

I was more referring to the more spider-like enemies.

[solemn hinge]

These guys I am a lot less sure

[stoic estuary]

Probs deepest natives

Deepnest*

[solemn hinge]

Perhaps

[elder rune]

Honestly, kinda wish those “lesser” spiders were in some way referenced or featured in Silksong, perhaps as friendly NPCs or (More likely) enemies within the Weavenest Atla?

[crude marsh]

I think most of them are deepnest natives

[maiden meteor]

Headcanon: You get fail point for missing fleas in flea juggle because fleas get actually hurt if they hit the ground

[solemn hinge]

Okay, interesting, stalking devouts have similar Dream Nail dialogue

Notably, Deephunters and Deeplings do not

[crude marsh]

are stalking devouts the little creature above?

lemme google rqr

[solemn hinge]

They’re the big boys

[elder rune]

Intriguing

[crude marsh]

Ohhh i see

[crude marsh]

I mean the weavers def worked alongside a lot of the deepnest natives.
But Brood means theyre of the same species kinda right? So that raises a lot of questions

[elder rune]

If it weren’t for the fact the Weavers were all canonically female, I would’ve thought the Little Weavers were the males, considering male spiders are usually smaller than IRL.

[whole holly]

all of them are spider's but only some of them are weavers

[crude marsh]

actually thats a good point lol, that would make sense if we think of actual spider stuff

[whole holly]

guys, can only hornet bind other crest or other weaver's also?

[crude marsh]

I thought hornet could bind any weavers

[whole holly]

i meant binding crests, like reapers and beast crest

[elder rune]

I think only Hornet is able to access the power of Crests due to Pale King reasons?

[crude marsh]

I personally still headcanon little weavers being devolved weavers due to the radiances infection. Idk anything else but theres a lot of possibilites

[whole holly]

oh

[solemn hinge]

I wouldn't be surprised if that happened even before the infection tbh

[elder rune]

Ah, that’s a good headcanon, I think I’ll adopt it lol

[crude marsh]

Yeah maybe after being gone from GMS for so long they begun to devolve?

idk cus we see a regular weaver in deepnest

like just chilling at one point, then he runs away i think

[solemn hinge]

Well, she

[vivid kernel]

I think i just locked in

Wait wromg chat

[solemn hinge]

lmao

[maiden meteor]

Or maybe little weavers are weaver wannabes

since weavers are basically ruler caste

[whole holly]

then they wouldn't be called weavers, they are weavers canonically

[zinc pivot]

Btw
The other day someone proposed that the sporeshroom tablet about deepnest caste thing is about Pale King and Herrah

[whole holly]

fact that deeplings and little weavers exist means that one is weaver other is regular spider

[crude marsh]

They also use silk from what I know, which is something only weavers or GMS can do

[maiden meteor]

they could also be different kind of weavers since we know they can differ

[crude marsh]

so they have to be actually related in someway

[solemn hinge]

What does that tablet say?

[maiden meteor]

tho it’s weird we don’t meet grown weaver enemies

[zinc pivot]

Or maybe weavers mated with deepnest locals and little weavers are halfspawn

[elder rune]

Anyways, if Little Weavers are devolved Weavers due to the infection, I’m guessing the Stalking Devouts are simply native inhabitants of Deepnest who formed a kinship with the Weavers.

[crude marsh]

We see one "grown" weaver within deepnest and he runs off

[elder rune]

She

Since Weavers are canonically all female

[maiden meteor]

it’s a single one amongst how many

[crude marsh]

I think most of those deepnest natives work with and under herra even if they arent actual weavers

[maiden meteor]

did weavers realize infection could not be stopped and fled before?

[crude marsh]

mb lol i get mixed up

[solemn hinge]

That is believed to be a different guy

[whole holly]

we don't even see Weavers in Pharloom, especially because they fled from hallownest back to pharloom so what was even the point, maybe they are hiding somewhere?

[crude marsh]

Yeah thats why I think little weavers are devolved weavers. A lot of weavers fled hallownest, and im assuming a good amount wouldve succumbed to the radiance and devolved

[crude marsh]

Nah we see 2 weavers

widow and First sinner

[whole holly]

Widow and First Sinner, are they from hallownest thought?

[solemn hinge]

No?

[crude marsh]

Both from pharloom

[whole holly]

i want ones from hallownest and we see none

[flint wadi]

first sinner is dead so she doesnt even count :'

[elder rune]

Herrah:

[zinc pivot]

Hornet

[crude marsh]

true its a dream thing

[solemn hinge]

Why would we see Hallownest Weavers in Silksong

[flint wadi]

they were said to have fled back to their home in hk

[whole holly]

guys stop being condescending i want hallownest weaver in pharloom alive and well

[flint wadi]

due to infection breaking out

[whole holly]

because they fled to pharloom

[solemn hinge]

I see

[whole holly]

doesn't count

[flint wadi]

and yet there are no hallownest weavers to be found in pharloom

[elder rune]

Only viable Weaver from Hallownest that could reappear in Silksong would be that one who ran away from Ghost when exploring the Weaver’s Den.

[zinc pivot]

They are either dead
Or missing imo

[whole holly]

she is not in pharloom and dead

[flint wadi]

likely dead but the game doesnt address it at ALL

[zinc pivot]

Its a joke ofc in case you cant tell it being crossed off

[flint wadi]

and this is supposed to be THE weaver game

[crude marsh]

Also this is really interesting. I think youre 100% right, that looks like its about herrah and the pale king

[solemn hinge]

It's most likely not about PK

[flint wadi]

yet here we are in act 3 getting more void lore

[whole holly]

we don't know anything about them

[elder rune]

Well IDK what to tell you ‘cus outside of one unnamed Weaver most of them are probably busy being dead!

[maiden meteor]

I think Hallownest weavers perished on their way

[whole holly]

nope they fled to pharloom but don't appear there, game should at least confirm if they are dead

[solemn hinge]

We did learn a lot about Weavers in Silksong tho

[whole holly]

Weaver's who travelled from Pharloom to Hallownest couldn't survive journey back
?

[crude marsh]

That sire part confuses me though, who else is the "sire" in this text?

[whole holly]

i meant hallownest weavers who fled to pharloom dude

[flint wadi]

yeah but it feels so disconnected from what was established in the first game, we should at least get some closure on things it setup

[maiden meteor]

We don’t really know how many weavers could have perished from Pharloom to Haloownest

[zinc pivot]

Just some random deepnest royalty ig

Though again it does work for the PK too

[crude marsh]

Weavers going back to pharloom would be a death sentence. GMS was very very pissed at them for betraying her, and they fled pharloom specifically because of her anyawy (Im 99% sure)

[solemn hinge]

It's her former mate, who had died. The only reason she agreed to the Dreamer stuff is because she couldn't have a mate due to her husband being dead

[whole holly]

problem is game doesn't address hallownest weaver's who were supposed to return to homeland

[crude marsh]

Also did you say this text was from HK or silksong? I forgot

[crude marsh]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh that does make sense

[zinc pivot]

Since i doubt shrumals look at anything from deepnest with respect

[maiden meteor]

yeah that’s why I think they died on their way back

[zinc pivot]

It is

[whole holly]

anyways, there are tablets about captured weavers in cradle as well as slab, so why aren't hallownest weaver's

[maiden meteor]

because they’re all dead by this point?

or hide too well

[whole holly]

yeah but i want something with basis and am unsatisfied by having to draw conclusions from thin air

[maiden meteor]

Weavers would know the best about hiding from GMS

[solemn hinge]

We just don't know yet, and that's fine

[elder rune]

-Weavers were the founders of Pharloom & the Citadel, the primary kingdom of the game

-They used a specialized form of soul magic that only they (And maybe other silk-using bugs) could use, a form of magic that acts as Hornet’s spells

-We learn of their origins and creator, who is also the main antagonist of the game

-You travel through multiple of their Weavenests to get important silk skills or items that they created, learning more about them in the process and even meeting a sapient construct in the form of Eva

-You literally fight two of them as lore important bosses

But yeah sure they were barely featured in Silksong ‘cus you said so I guess!?

[flint wadi]

its giving

[whole holly]

well game should address them, they aren't hiding from hornet too

[zinc pivot]

The most ass decision in steel ball run

[solemn hinge]

I disagree tbh

[maiden meteor]

I mean space between kingdoms is 99% barren waste

[solemn hinge]

It doesn't really say when he died of a cold so idrc about it

[maiden meteor]

makes sense journeys here would be extremely hard

[whole holly]

NOT WHAT I MEANT, discussion is about hallownest weavers who fled back to pharloom and game doesn't address them at all

[elder rune]

I doubt it’s 99% barren waste, more 90% barren waste.

[solemn hinge]

Which is fine. We'll probably get stuff on it later.

[zinc pivot]

Tbh it could be just araki fucking around with readers
But again it was heartbreaking

[flint wadi]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm nonononono
these are the exact same weavers possesing the exact same abilities it doesnt jive well at all

[whole holly]

it is also fine to express frustration

[crude marsh]

Wait do we actually know they fled back to pharloom? I thought they just fled hallownest

[elder rune]

No you don’t get it they need to learn about them NOW otherwise Silksong is an utter travesty of a game. /s

[solemn hinge]

Yeah, but we all understand

[flint wadi]

either way dead in the trek or in the kingdom ss kinda just drops the ball on this aspect

[maiden meteor]

Again, we don’t know how many of they could’ve died when they fled Pharloom at first place

[maiden meteor]

maybe Hallownest tribe makes 30% of those who fled there

[crude marsh]

Oh that is rlly interesting then

[flint wadi]

weavers got haunting flashbacks

and wanted none of it

[crude marsh]

Yeah I guess there isn't any definitive conclusion as to what happened to those weavers. Maybe they did make it back home and maybe one of them is the widow? No real confirmation but i guess you jsut have to speculate for now

[whole holly]

maybe stop being antagonizing and condescending person, it makes sense for game to address that storyline from launch and Silksong community shouldn't be hostile to valid frustration and criticism with your comments you are doing opposite and invalidating other people, be nice.

[solemn hinge]

Let's just hope it's explained later

[elder rune]

I’m sure kingdoms outside of Hallownest, Pharloom, and the Steel City exist.

[maiden meteor]

I still believe TC know their lore unless they state otherwise

[solemn hinge]

They're just making a jokey joke

[elder rune]

Tbh I was being a bit of a bitter arse, so I apologize for the toxicity.

[solemn hinge]

Yeah fair

[maiden meteor]

I doubt they would ignore obvious Weaver Lore Questions in a game about Weavers

so it all must have purpose

[whole holly]

yeah

[flint wadi]

well they have now that the game is on our hands

[solemn hinge]

The game will get content updates

[maiden meteor]

Maybe they just chose to obscure it

[flint wadi]

not to mention the sheer lack of weavers as a presence in general, widow was so good and so short

[maiden meteor]

so we would build our own guesses

[terse warren]

They quite literally said in an AMA before that even they don't know every secret

[terse warren]

Plenty of corpses though 🔥

[flint wadi]

there is no traces of obscuration its just not addressed

[whole holly]

well, they can pretty much make lore up on spot

[flint wadi]

nothing to build these guesses off

they set it up and just didnt follow up on it

thats not purposeful

[terse warren]

That would divolve into bad writing

[terse warren]

What's the specific topic about btw

[flint wadi]

hallownest weavers

[whole holly]

i guess, but i was being figurative

[maiden meteor]

Weavers going back yo Pharloom and none being here in Silksong pretty clearly speaks to me that whatever could happen to them on their way

[crude marsh]

The weavers who were in hallownest fled back to their "old home" after the radiances infection showed up
There is no confirmation on what happened to them in silksong, so its all speculative rn

[midnight zinc]

So is the question why some of them were in Hallownest?

[flint wadi]

why arent they in the sequel despite lore claims of their departing for their home

[flint wadi]

why none of them are in pharloom by the time hornet arrives there :

[terse warren]

Ahhh yeah that's just kinds meh

[twilit sable]

Perhaps there will be more weaver presence in further dlc.

[solemn hinge]

We don't know

[flint wadi]

yeah we dont

something the game shouldve elaborated upon

even if it meant they were just dead it would still be addressing it

[maiden meteor]

Between Hallownest and Pharloom is a giant waste and whatever can happen on a trip here

maybe Weavers left in haste and weren’t prepared enough

[terse warren]

I'd rather DLC follow on other loose ends

The main game was the Weavers' time to shine, not DLC

[crude marsh]

Would be incredibly interested if they were intercepted by those from the Steel City- but again there is just 0 evidence rn, but it would make for a good DLC

[whole holly]

but they should still have.confirmed it in game

[terse warren]

Which is never said anywhere, so the point stands

[flint wadi]

we got weavers den 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0

but no weavers

[crude marsh]

Anyone know where I can read the lore texts in the cradle? Those cages with the weaver related texts
I cant find it on the wiki

[midnight zinc]

How do we know they weren’t just captured like other weavers on arrival? We don’t know the specifics of the timeline here, like when they arrived in Hallownest, but we do know an insane amount of time passed between the infection spreading and when the first game takes place, Hallownest has been dead for ages, so perhaps the weavers that left arrived back in Pharloom an incredibly long time ago. We also don’t know the timeframe between the games.

[maiden meteor]

idk why you people except outright statements from game with Souls-Like storytelling

[narrow glacier]

Could also be that the Citadel’s hunters grabbed them and did whatever they do to the Weavers they capture

[whole holly]

wait does Steel City want Weavers for something

[flint wadi]

TC one tricking silksongs lore:

[narrow glacier]

Steel City seems to be abyssal based (in one way or another).

[terse warren]

They expect any kind of hint at all

[crude marsh]

I have No evidence for tha tbh, but just an interesting thought

[terse warren]

The Weavers of Hallownest weren't even referenced, they only appear ONCE in Red Memory

[maiden meteor]

is lack of any mention of Hallownest weavers not hint enough?

[whole holly]

idk why. you think we expect outright statement, we want closure of fact that weavers left hallownest for pharloom

[solemn hinge]

Why are we dwelling on this so much out of curiosity

[crude marsh]

I mean that is a reference, but yeah nothing about their departure

[solemn hinge]

Like I get the frustration but haven't we been on this for 20 minutes or smth

[whole holly]

so absence of evidence is evidence of absence to you?

[maiden meteor]

GMS never sensed Hallownest weavers nor they seemingly made it to Pharloom

[terse warren]

That's the exact opposite of a hint

[twilit sable]

Change topic?

[flint wadi]

give us 2-3 months to grieve about silksongs flaws before we romanticize the game and never complain again

[crude marsh]

Its all a dead end so yeah not much point. But i do want to read the texts in the cradle- apparently its about imprisoned weavers (I read the texts weeks ago so i cant remember) and I just wanna see if it says anything related to this

[flint wadi]

we need an outlet

[terse warren]

It's a discussion

[maiden meteor]

imo as of now death of Hallownest weavers is the most obvious answer unless TC pull any other resolution out of their ass

[whole holly]

every discussion brings frustration, Void, status of higher beings, steel hearts, lifeblood

[solemn hinge]

Fair enough ig

[whole holly]

so absence of evidence is evidence of absence to you? got it

[terse warren]

I don't understand people that say "guys we've already dwelled on this for 20 mins", like, discussions shouldn't have a time limit, I've seen discussions go on for hours, as long as there's evidence to present I don't see why the discussion should stop

[midnight zinc]

I literally said this, Hallownest fell an unbelievably long time ago, no reason to believe they didn’t face the same fate of every other weaver.

[twilit sable]

Indeed. That's the nature of lore speculation.

[maiden meteor]

why would Pharloom have any mention of Hallownest weavers if they all died before Haunting?

[terse warren]

We literally see an alive Weaver in Hallownest

[maiden meteor]

GMS only sense Hornet of Hallownest

[terse warren]

Why would they just magically die before the haunting without explanation

[maiden meteor]

clearly she’s the last weaver there

[whole holly]

what kind of point is this?

[maiden meteor]

“giant deadly barren waste” isn’t really magic

[whole holly]

but they survived when they came to pharloom, weird

[terse warren]

And Weavers are some of the most powerful bugs ever

If some mind controlled fucks can do it, so can Weavers

[maiden meteor]

We have literally 0 info on how trip from Pharloom to Hallownest went

[midnight zinc]

This is true, I’m just now remembering the fact that they left recently because of the new wave of infection. But we also don’t know the time between games, which could’ve also been quite long.

[maiden meteor]

many could have died

[solemn hinge]

Okay I do agree with your frustration, but the lore doesn't directly say that they survived the trip to Pharloom, only that they went on it

Although, the trip should have been mentioned in some way

[whole holly]

which is exactly what brings the frustration

[terse warren]

But why, they're some of the strongest bugs we know of, and we've seen far less capable fighters make the trip

[crude marsh]

I heard somewhere silksong doesnt take place immediatley after hollow knight, more like a WHILE after. I think they said TC said so somewhere but take that with a huge grain of salt, its word of mouth and i could be rlly wrong

[maiden meteor]

Honestly most of lore criticism feels irrelevant to me cause we have too little info to make proper assumptions

[terse warren]

If ZOTE can make the trip in the Wastes so can Weavers

[maiden meteor]

Zote is literally toon force character lmao

[whole holly]

you can criticize game not giving enough information to make assumptions, and that's what i am doing

[solemn hinge]

To be fair, we don't know where Zote came from

[twilit sable]

I think he mostly got carried by other powerful bug wariors.

[maiden meteor]

He can make his way into Godhome just because

[terse warren]

The lack on info on pre-established plot points is exactly the criticism

[terse warren]

ok that's wrong but whatever

Are you really gonna tell me that Cloth, Tiso, and others are all stronger than a GROUP of Weavers???

[midnight zinc]

I only get that sense because Hornet makes some allusions to things she’s done in her life I highly doubt she’d have been doing while acting as a sentinel of Hallownest, but also wouldn’t have had time to do before the fall of the kingdom. So I’m assuming many generations have passed between the games, which would be more than enough time to explain why we don’t see the weavers that left Hallownest: they met the exact same fate as every other weaver.

[terse warren]

Weavers most over hyped bug in history I guess

[solemn hinge]

I'd argue Quirrel could put up a fight but yeahhhh

[flint wadi]

god and theyre so fucking cool of an idea too its genuinely a tragedy

[terse warren]

Which is why I didn't mention him he's abnormal

[solemn hinge]

Let's just hope it's dwelled on later

[terse warren]

Although I highly doubt the guy can take on multiple Weavers at once

[flint wadi]

but at least we got widow

i love you widow

[terse warren]

And First Sinner

[flint wadi]

dead

[midnight zinc]

My guess is that they were put in as a way to expand upon hornet’s story when it was still going to be a dlc, but as it became a separate game, they became irrelevant to the story they wanted to tell

[terse warren]

Bound*

[flint wadi]

but yeah i guess FS is still an exploration of weavers

[terse warren]

Binding isn't death btw

[flint wadi]

she was a mummy beforehand

[solemn hinge]

She's still like, in the game anyways

[maiden meteor]

FS is too angry to die properly

[terse warren]

Yeah although atp I'm starting to feel the mummies weren't fully dead but more like whatever Khaan was up to

[flint wadi]

and all mummies are corpses with lingering power

thats how you bind them

point is FS isnt really an active character

[terse warren]

Well but we also know binding fused the Crests of the people so ig they kinda come back to life through Hornet

[maiden meteor]

FS also seems to be particularly racist towards Hornet

[flint wadi]

shes a fight, a really cool one but she doesnt even exist in the world anymore

[terse warren]

Ok yes that I can agree with

[terse warren]

???

[maiden meteor]

she calls her “half span of distant kingdom”

instead of “daughter”

[terse warren]

I think you're looking too deep into it

[vivid kernel]

Where is everbloom coming from do you know

[solemn hinge]

To be fair, that's kinda the point of the Weavers in Silksong, a group that isn't there anymore

[flint wadi]

thats what they were in hk already give me something new

[terse warren]

Some of the Weaver skills are. Called Talents and some other Skills in the descriptions I don't think it really matters

[terse warren]

We don't know

[solemn hinge]

I mean I guess, but also it's consistent with HK

[flint wadi]

it really didnt had to be

[solemn hinge]

IMO we learn a lot about the (non-Hallownest) Weavers, so I'm satisfied

[terse warren]

This game isn't exactly renowned for being consistent with HK

[maiden meteor]

tbf Hallownest weavers don’t seem to have too much going on

[terse warren]

Ahem ahem lifeblood ahem ahem snail shamans ahem ahem Herrah ahem ahem

[maiden meteor]

they helped PK and then fled

[vivid kernel]

One of the 5 knights of hallownest holding everbloom in his hand Ig

[flint wadi]

^ yeah in moments of attempted continuity it retcons stuff (which isnt a crime), but it does go against your argument lol

[terse warren]

Her*

[maiden meteor]

that’s about it

[solemn hinge]

I feel like those are good changes tbf

[terse warren]

What we know about Everbloom:

1. It's from where Ze'mer is from

2. It repels Void

[vivid kernel]

Girl 😳

[solemn hinge]

And some of them are dubiously actual changes

[flint wadi]

its not about the nature of retcons is that theyre there and that SS isnt afraid of not being faithful to the first game

[twilit sable]

I think it's really rare flower that is really hard to find its source but is capable of growing and multiply. I'm not sure where it came from coz there is no evidence about its origin.

[maiden meteor]

Snail Shamans were always “shady” to me… ha

[fading whale]

Tbh no, it just challenges and changes perceptions and assumptions the community had made for hollow knight but those assumptions were never confirmed or 100% proven so

[narrow glacier]

Herrah, I get. The other two I don’t see the discrepancies.

[terse warren]

Lifeblood is the most ass retcon I've ever seen it could've been so much cooler and they just made it Infection number 2

[terse warren]

Snail Shamans literally say that they never thought to look at the abyss as a source of power

Lifeblood didn't mutate people like that

[fading whale]

You literally straight up don't know that

[solemn hinge]

It's really not

[maiden meteor]

One* Snail Shaman

[crude marsh]

kinda confused what isnt consistent with lifeblood and the snail shamans? What stuff did silksong contradict HK?

[terse warren]

"My KIND never thought to look in that place"

[flint wadi]

i still like lifeblood in SS but i do wish they leaned more into its mystical side

[zinc pivot]

Its considered taboo from base game
Ss only expanded upon it

[solemn hinge]

Lifeblood can mutate people (mentioned in HK)

[terse warren]

We have 4 different things behaving like the infection

[maiden meteor]

Ancestral Shaman also haven’t been in touch with their siblings

[flint wadi]

yk joni repose type shit that was magical

[solemn hinge]

It's still magic but yeah it's also a bit science-y

[terse warren]

"a bit taboo" doesn't mean it mutates you and destroys you internally. It was overall regarded as something healthy

[flint wadi]

eh not really, its just infection

[narrow glacier]

In HK we get 2 of our 3 Void spells FROM corpses of snail shamans. There’s obviously a connection.

We have no idea WHAT lifeblood does. At least not until Silksong

[solemn hinge]

I mean the whole alchemy stuff that Axolotl guy does with it or whatever

[twilit sable]

If it's mutate creatures, why didn't lifeblood mutate Joni's body?

[narrow glacier]

It wasn’t a bit taboo. It was outright banned by the Pale King

[flint wadi]

oh no thats fine i mean the whole angle of it being a mutating force

[ebon silo]

I wonder why Heisenberg was there

[crude marsh]

In SS it is regarded as healthy, until they overuse it and it begins to mutate
In HK its straight up banned aint it

[vivid kernel]

İs will be there a 3th game of hallow knight

[twilit sable]

Wrong reply, sorry.

[ebon silo]

Like your a chemist who is living in the desert essentially you know who exactly did that?

[terse warren]

That's literally a lie

[terse warren]

There's dialogue from the Shaman saying that "we fused our essence with their soul". We made the Void spells, the Shamans have nothing to do with it

[gentle aspen]

yo gurt

[ebon silo]

Also why is lifeblood near the abyss isn't that like dangerous asf genuinely we about to see blue infected vessels coming out of the abyss

[terse warren]

The ceiling

[flint wadi]

theres nothing there :(

[ebon silo]

Dudes memes come from Facebook

[gentle aspen]

tk never overdoses on lifeblood and anyways that bit is in the dream realm

[solemn hinge]

I personally don't consider Lifeblood a retcon, it just goes against the pre-conceived assumptions that we had from HK

[maiden meteor]

Knight is literally built different

[fading whale]

Wrong, so wrong, go read the descending dark dialogue and come back. The shaman directly says that descending dark comes exclusively from the crystal mound shaman

[crude marsh]

Oh u right I dont think it was outright banned- ive heard people say it is but i cant find any proof.
However I still dont see how lifeblood in silksong is contradictory to Hollow Knights at all?

[terse warren]

Salubra consumes some and she's perfectly fine

[gentle aspen]

What are you talking about

they never say anything like that they just feel like we met their aunt

[solemn hinge]

Yeah cause she doesn't overdose, silly

[fading whale]

Yeah in reaction to descending dark

[gentle aspen]

Yeah because you meet the shaman and take their power to learn to fuse the spell with your own essence

if you read the dialogue

[solemn hinge]

DDark was made by the Knight using the advanced knowledge of DDive to apply Void to the spell

[fading whale]

another quality about you yet. You didn't perchance visit my fourth aunt?
She makes her home beside that Crystal Mount. Leaves quite an impression on those that seek her out. Were I not bound here, I'd love to visit myself.

[maiden meteor]

I wish TC would done Q&A session to kill these “retcon” convos once and forever

[fading whale]

Where is this fusing of essence you people are talking about

Makes no sense

[terse warren]

Of proximity to the substance is enough to cause mutations I think she should've mutated

Hornet has a super special shell and she can only resist 8 masks

[gentle aspen]

Dawg Snail Shaman explicitly states this

[zinc pivot]

Shade soul dialogue

[maiden meteor]

Abyssal Shrine is literally triggered by shaman spell

[solemn hinge]

How many masks worth did Salubra consume?

[gentle aspen]

What's this? My vengeful gift has warped within you. You've twisted it into something... else.
Ohohohoh! I knew it. My friend! You're a marvel. Your essence has melded with the spell.
You must have found a powerful source to transform it in such a unique, expressive way.

[maiden meteor]

how can it get less subtle than that

[terse warren]

Retcons aren't something TC decides they're something objective

[gentle aspen]

Yeah and it’s almost like the shaman also explicitly states it has nothing to do with their people

[maiden meteor]

You say that without knowing even fraction of the lore TC may have

[terse warren]

Well at least one which, again, if only proximity is enough to get mutated, I'd argue should've fucking killed her

[fading whale]

In shade soul dialogue, they say that, and where do we get shade soul ? From the experimented on shaman in soul sanctum, they very well could have been a shaman who messed with void

[crude marsh]

That isnt a retcon in any way? You can consume lifeblood and not mutate. In Silksong we just see what happens when you take too much

[solemn hinge]

I mean, again very few of these "retcons" are actually retcons lmao

[gentle aspen]

You realize how many more assumptions you need to make for this to be true

[terse warren]

They quite literally all are

[gentle aspen]

As opposed to reading the shamans dialogue and just believing what they say

[heavy gyro]

proximity isnt the thing causing the mutations its the fact that the alchemist injected the damn thing everywhere

[fading whale]

If I do that then I have to believe descending dark comes from the crystal mound shaman

[crude marsh]

The lifeblood retcon isnt a retcon, im really confused on your logic

[solemn hinge]

Some are I guess but not all of em

[gentle aspen]

you get the ability from the shaman yes
but you don’t get void from the shaman

The void comes from the Knight

that is explicit

[maiden meteor]

I will die on the hill that TC are the only ones to know real lore unless stated otherwise. Everything else is speculation

[terse warren]

We see lifeblood all over Hallownest, quite literally 3 cocoons in Fog Canyon, but no mutations

[gentle aspen]

then why are you here

[fading whale]

What is different about "the ability" that comes from the crystal mound shaman

[heavy gyro]

because it wasnt injected everywhere

[gentle aspen]

That isn’t different at all

[twilit sable]

So lifeblood is not contagious?

[maiden meteor]

to argue with random people obviously (and maybe just a little dwell on possible implications)

[terse warren]

Even if, that doesn't change that these are literally inconsistent pieces of information from game one

[gentle aspen]

the methodology is the same as is the explanation

[terse warren]

Actually, you are wrong!

Hornet says "I saw similar aberrations in my home caves where this substance was once allowed to flourish"

It has nothing to do with injecting it

[fading whale]

So the knight learns how to merge his void with the spell they have in shade souls case, but needs to learn that again from a different shaman to learn how to merge it with descending dark as well?

[gentle aspen]

yes, they are different spells from different sources

[terse warren]

Plasmidas Journal entry, before you ask

[fading whale]

Yeah and this isn't a retcon?? Have you seen the entire history of hallownest before the events of hollow knight and after the events of hollow knight but before silksong ? Adding information that wasn't there before isn't reconning

[solemn hinge]

Joni's repose

[heavy gyro]

yeah it was allowed to flourish under favorable conditions probably somewhere in hallownest, usually it just exists, and since the alchemist injected it everywhere it was allowed to grow without necessarilly having the right conditions

[narrow glacier]

It’s almost like Lifeblood has seeds or something

[elder rune]

Yeah, there’s always been the implication of Lifeblood being an addictive, fantastical drug.

[narrow glacier]

And those seeds look like blue versions of those orange infectious seeds

[solemn hinge]

Sorta

[undone ether]

Hi I have a question I was wondering

[gentle aspen]

Ask away

[elder rune]

Plus, the Radiance may have also co-opted some Lifeblood to spread the Infection

[maiden meteor]

PLEASE let it be a worthwhile convo

[undone ether]

So did grandma silk create ALL the "original" weavers?

[fading whale]

The lightseeds are infected lifeseeds from my understanding

[terse warren]

Home caves is Deepnest

And even then, nothing near Joni is mutated, as in Silksong

[gentle aspen]

they’re not

[flint wadi]

yeah lifeseed/lightseed correlation is kind of a dead giveaway huh

[gentle aspen]

Yes

[fading whale]

Why not?

[undone ether]

That means hornet and lace are related

My god

[gentle aspen]

lifeseeds aren’t single celled organisms

[maiden meteor]

yes but no

Lace is 100% Silk life

[gentle aspen]

not blood related but pretty much

[elder rune]

I imagine that’s due to Joni not injecting dozens of needles into her & actively growing Lifeblood seeds everywhere like with Zylotol.

[fading whale]

So what?

[maiden meteor]

Hornet is more “organic”

[terse warren]

It was just "allowed to flourish", you added "under favorable conditions"

"Allowed to flourish" means they just let it be, and it caused the aberrations. Hallownest has fell and there are more lifeblood cocoons there than in Pharloom, i don't see any aberrations though

[undone ether]

Silk related same thing /silly

[terse warren]

I'm gonna kill someone

Actually, you are wrong!

Hornet says "I saw similar aberrations in my home caves where this substance was once allowed to flourish"

It has nothing to do with injecting it

[gentle aspen]

if one is a single celled organism bloated by the infection (lightseed) and one are just seeds (lifeseeds) they aren’t the same thing

[flint wadi]

the implication is that they manifested out of thin air from sheer concentration of infection

[maiden meteor]

Hornet and Lace have same progenitor but imo they’re really different

[fading whale]

Again, you don't know if hornet saw those abberations way back before the events of hollow knight or in the gap between hollow knight and silksong

[narrow glacier]

“Allowed to flourish” means it wasn’t actively culled.

[undone ether]

Also while I'm here I'm gonna say I fw the theory that says Zote was cursed by Greyroot

[gentle aspen]

Why

[terse warren]

And it wasn't in HK either

We see more cocoons there than in Pharloom

[maiden meteor]

Zote is blessed actually

[elder rune]

Zylotol allows Lifeblood to flourish and completely embraces the fact he’s turning into a Lifeblood junkie.

[terse warren]

That's not what I'm arguing

I'm using it to argue that you don't need injections for aberrations

Read the rest of the message bruh

[terse warren]

He doesn't "allow" it to flourish he injects it into the ground

[fading whale]

I am not saying you do either

[maiden meteor]

I headcanon all “optional” stuff in HK as canon so Zote is literally blessed by luck

[flint wadi]

but if anything this is just a point for lifeblood infection angle the sequel took cause it (and the vines) are the only correlations infection and lifeblood had in the first game

[narrow glacier]

Yes, because it’s just starting to appear in Pharloom due to an active effort.

We don’t know how long Lifeblood existed in Hallownest. We also don’t know how much or how often it was culled

[gentle aspen]

Don’t need to headcanon that

TC said so already

[heavy gyro]

home caves could just mean hallownest, and we dont know how lifeblood existed before the events of the first game, it is entirely possible for some lifeblood infection to have happened (which it sorta did as jonis repose) at some point when hornet was in hallownest

[flint wadi]

zote is immortal yeah

[elder rune]

Yeah, that’s what I was meaning to say. But anyways injecting lifeblood into the ground and constantly shoving needles into your body is different to Joni simply being a more casual user of the substance.

[flint wadi]

you bestow him with that power once you save him

[gentle aspen]

Joni’s not a casual user of the substance what

[rocky anvil]

Do y'all think we'll get more lifeblood content/lore in later DLCs?

[zinc pivot]

Until his predator savage vengefly ate him

[crude marsh]

He directly rebuttals your point though? Im a bit confused, he directly addresses your point in that text he replied to

[gentle aspen]

she literally bestows blessings that transmogrify your inner vitals into lifeblood

[solemn hinge]

Yep

[flint wadi]

thats the point he never dies after
you saving him literally turns him immortal

[elder rune]

By Lifeblood standards she is a casual user since she isn’t actively mutating the wildlife and turning herself into a plant.

[terse warren]

If aberrations appear at only 4 cocoons in Pharloom, I don't see any reason for them to be absent while Hallownest is at 7

[gentle aspen]

an entire area overtaken by lifeblood is casual to you?

[terse warren]

1. Wiki isn't a source

2. None of this says that Joni was a casual user?

[undone ether]

unfathomably weak, but still genuinely believes he's the shit, maybe he recalls being strong at some point
looks like a bizarro version of little ghost, greyroot kinda looks like a bizarro version of the white lady as well
precept number I forgot: mothers will always betray you
nail carved from shellwood, I doubt the name is a coincidence

[flint wadi]

i wouldnt mind a third game about lifeblood honestly

its like that one side character that gets a whole game

[fading whale]

To be fair that's just the power of her dying wish (that's what a charm is) doesn't mean she could do that always

[maiden meteor]

I only really consider “retcon” anything that 100% contradicts already established statements

[mint stratus]

Convinced myself that hornet needs the scuttlebrace to skitter backwards because her halfweaver nature means her spine isn’t designed for it

[gentle aspen]

No, she gave out the blessing previously

[terse warren]

Name is 100% a coincidence lmao why wouldn't it be

[gentle aspen]

read her dialogue

[maiden meteor]

oh nvm my vpn died

[heavy gyro]

abberations appear due to the alchemists actions,; if the alchemist did nothing the 4 lifeblood cocoons would just exist like they do in hallownest. hornet's mention of abberations appearing in hallownest could have happened before the events of hk

[twilit sable]

That's interesting.

[terse warren]

Which everything we've argued for before is

[lean mirage]

Consider phantom will is so powerful to literally conjure "The mist"

Why the hell she didnt do the same when fighting hornet?

[undone ether]

The more coincidences there appear to be, the more likely it is for it all to be intentional

[gentle aspen]

the first one is the joke
greyroot just looks like a root based being
that’s just tied to his backstory with his mother and father
wood exists elsewhere in hk (you can see wooden support beams in a lot of places)

[maiden meteor]

something we could have deduced isn’t 100% established imo

[narrow glacier]

Because she needed something else to actually do it (the big ass organ)

[zinc pivot]

Its a combination of will and magical pipe organ

[elder rune]

Because Phantom wanted to have an honest, honorable dual against Hornet.

[twilit sable]

Maybe she want to fight fairly and die a warrior?

[solemn hinge]

Holy yap

[terse warren]

Ok I'm gonna post it one more time then if you say again that they only appeared due to the alchemist, I'm gonna stop interacting. This is quite literally dialogue that says you don't need active action for that to happen

Actually, you are wrong!

Hornet says "I saw similar aberrations in my home caves where this substance was once allowed to flourish"

It has nothing to do with injecting it

[lean mirage]

Consider hornet confirm the wraith are the manifestation of ones strong will

Im suprise phantom didnt summon during battle too

[maiden meteor]

if HK straight up stated “Lifeblood is harmless” then yeah

but it never outright stated that

we just thought it is

[undone ether]

Fair enough, it's js that I got the Deltarune fandom genes for believing batshit teories

[zinc pivot]

For an act 1 boss its overkill

Those shit sucks soul

[terse warren]

It said it's "a bit taboo", we hear of multiple individuals consuming it without issue, we see it spread in a lot of places but no aberrations...

[mint stratus]

The knight can probably get away with drinking it because the void consumes all and returns it to nothingness 👍

[crude marsh]

Wiki is directly referencing things from both hollowknight & Silksong in this text. It isnt the source, but you can easily trace what it is saying back to the respective games? What kind of argument is that? It even has sources in that text...?

[gentle aspen]

It’s the same reason you don’t cite wikipedia

[heavy gyro]

if you increase the amount of lifeblood in the ecosystem, that is allowing it to flourish. the alchemist allowed it to flourish by injecting it everywhere. i dont get how this is supposed to refute my point

[terse warren]

You post the Wiki's sources, not what the wiki says directly

[gentle aspen]

You cite the sources they use

[lean mirage]

I have seen worse for act 1

Or maybe im just suck in general but wraith isnt too much a problem to deal with and phantom move set isnt alot

[terse warren]

That is not what the word "allow" means

[heavy gyro]

????

[zinc pivot]

If it has no business other than healthiness noone would call it taboo

[gentle aspen]

It’s funny that phantom is basically immortal unless you parry her

[zinc pivot]

It literally change people into lifeblood

[mint stratus]

Yeah but if they knock you off a platform you have to start the mist maze all over

[terse warren]

The alchemist did much more than "allow" it to flourish

[terse warren]

Not in the first game

[crude marsh]

Gotcha

[terse warren]

Elbows on table

[zinc pivot]

Jonis blessing

[gentle aspen]

zylotol was actively collecting and experimenting on the stuff and the wildlife

[stoic estuary]

So what do y'all think are the snail shamans

[hidden crater]

can we just get the fucking dlc before someone beats 4 lost laces with their toes

[terse warren]

Joni is clearly magically connected to the substance

[gentle aspen]

powerful creatures who can manipulate soul yada yada and like void a lot apparently

[stoic estuary]

Because it was taboo???

[lean mirage]

Wow

Theres first sinner then second sinner
Now a third?

[fading whale]

We hear of who? Salubra and the hunter? And also nobody said occasional use turns you into a monster, even hornet overdosing doesn't turn into a monster and she can easily get rid of it by resting. Just because we didn't see the abberations in hollow knight doesn't mean that hornet saying she say them at some point is a retcon

[terse warren]

"a bit taboo"

We still hear of people consuming it and they're not transformed

[heavy gyro]

thats still allowing it to flourish; the alchemist injected it onto stuff that lifeblood probably wouldve never even reached (since the worms probably dont eat the cocoons), so it is increasing the survival chance of lifeblood and allowing it spread more easily

[hidden crater]

what's next fourth choru- i mean fourth sinner?

[gentle aspen]

Hornet is explicitly noted to be special

because of her hardy shell

[mint stratus]

Kinda assumed they were leftover from the ancient civilization, or atleast descendants of those who were

[twilit sable]

No, fourth savage beastfly. That's better.

[gentle aspen]

if they were they’d be aware of the abyss in the first game

[stoic estuary]

I personally think they are the remnants of the ancient civilization

[stoic estuary]

Or descendants

[fading whale]

Sure, so she can handle an overdose. Are we assuming the hunter and salubra were also overdosing?

[lean mirage]

Theres a third one💀?

(The second one was easy though)

[hidden crater]

its mating season for the beastflies

[gentle aspen]

there’s voided beastfly ig

[mint stratus]

Nature is beautiful

[zinc pivot]

Not hot enough

[gentle aspen]

????

[hidden crater]

maybe?

[lean mirage]

Wait this shit is real💀

I thought its just modded💀
Not actual in game stuff

Thank god i murdered it in act 2

[twilit sable]

Also plasmified beastfly as well if you reach act 4

[zinc pivot]

Should be magma hot

[charred nimbus]

There is also voided Moorwing btw

[crude marsh]

I think its pretty well established that you can consume lifeblood without mutating, but you only will from overuse. Using that point doesnt make any sense imo

[lean mirage]

How💀
Dont u need to get to shell wood to possibly get in to act 2?

[maiden meteor]

[mint stratus]

Bugs seem to have varying tolerances

[zinc pivot]

WHAT

[hidden crater]

wormways skip if i remember

[terse warren]

It wouldn't be described as "A BIT taboo" if it always could turn you into an abomination

[flint wadi]

you skip moorwing if you get to shellwood via wormways

[terse warren]

Flea Caravan

[charred nimbus]

First you can skip Moorwing with fleas, then you just need to avoid the next area you encounter him until act 3

[flint wadi]

this too

[hidden crater]

that as well

[lean mirage]

U still need cling in act 2 though ?
In alot of section

[charred nimbus]

You can get to shellwood via the wormways

[maiden meteor]

Voided Moorwing sounds like hell

[lean mirage]

Fleas?
As in find enough and the caravan will move to that location despawning the moorwing?

[zinc pivot]

Yes

[lean mirage]

My god
Team cherry did think of everything

[flint wadi]

shellwood goes exactly the same you just enter it from the west

which means you can get cling

[terse warren]

The guy is barely an inconvenience in act 3

[charred nimbus]

Yes, when the Fleas move to greymoor you skip the first moorwing fight

[maiden meteor]

Fleamaster is just this powerful

[mint stratus]

D’y’all think flealia is a currently alive higher being?

[charred nimbus]

After you skip Moorwing with the fleas you can find him again in act 2 on another place of Greymoor, but it's avoidable

[flint wadi]

yeah lost moorwing is just moorwing with endgame hp stats which yk is still fun

[hidden crater]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxWLM5uMAnc bro wtf

[zinc pivot]

Flealia charm does have some magical but shitty power

[maiden meteor]

What are implications of Mooshka being able to solo Moorwing

[gentle aspen]

No why would we assume that

[charred nimbus]

I guess the Fleas just liked The Last Judge and didn't want to beat her up to death to move to the grand gateway

[crude marsh]

yeah "a bit taboo" is an understatement for sure, that could be just from the perspective of salubra only but yeah I agree. However it does seem like you need to excessively use it, like VERY excessively to cause a mutation. In SS using an entire vial doesnt mutate you, you have to go out of your way to circumvent the vials limits by using architects crest. Even then it doesn't take on physical changes yet (Hornet doesnt physically change, her insides are just filled with lifeblood though)- which means you need further lifeblood or you'd have to wait a while before you mutate.

[twilit sable]

Have you ever wonder how flea caravan traverse through phaloom?

[hidden crater]

magic

[mint stratus]

The tools description

[zinc pivot]

3rd dimension

[charred nimbus]

They just kill everything that's on their way

[mint stratus]

Mad max fury road

[twilit sable]

Like how did they cross putrified duct?

[mint stratus]

Assumed vog gave them a shortcut

[lean mirage]

Tie enough flea to lift the caravan

[maiden meteor]

Flea brew is like Druid Potion from Asterisk and Obelisk

[hidden crater]

huge flea is doing all the work

[zinc pivot]

What pixar ogrimshit is this

[gentle aspen]

Doesn’t necessarily imply they have a higher being but knowing TC they’d pull some crap like that sure

[zinc pivot]

We will also never know what the hell grubberflies are or why they are holy

[maiden meteor]

could just be Middle Being like Khann or Karmelita tbh

[charred nimbus]

I'm not sure if i just got better with the game or if it was just the nerfs, but Moorwing was never really a problem to me in my new saves playtrus, in my main playtru i skipped Moorwing on accident

[gentle aspen]

middle being

[zinc pivot]

Moorwings only problem is
Its claw boomerang attacks

[maiden meteor]

[zinc pivot]

And even then its not that hard if you dont stupidly rush headfast

[lean mirage]

Also
Consider the horrific warcrime commited in whiteward

Is all the lamp/lantern/light bulb here in pharloom use soul?

Imagine being condemned to be a lamp for eternity

[charred nimbus]

I find then really easy to avoid as in my current state

[zinc pivot]

And yet it was the nerfed one

[gentle aspen]

not all of them but a lot of them are silkflies

[mint stratus]

The boomerangs only do one mask now though, I more have problems with head on collisions

[hidden crater]

we have evolved so much...

[maiden meteor]

being Lamp seems better than toiling for eternity in cogwork core

[zinc pivot]

Why cant they keep the disgraced chef part

[charred nimbus]

How can i give an award to this good modder?

[zinc pivot]

Literally just a title

[maiden meteor]

Ass Jim is above need for titles

[charred nimbus]

His title is Ass Jim

[zinc pivot]

Them

[charred nimbus]

Yeah, Them

[regal crow]

Why’s the abyss in lava? I woulda thought it’d be underwater, if anywhere

[maiden meteor]

Ass Jim is true HB of Pharloom

[mint stratus]

Diversity win, horrible creature Ass Jim be upon ye

[flint wadi]

its below lava

[lean mirage]

I dont know
I dont like being condemned to one singular tiny space forever
Atleast cogwork i can move around

[charred nimbus]

I guess that's just because Pharloom has a bunch of lava on its underground

[maiden meteor]

isn’t Pharloom a volcano or smth or is it just headcanon

[mint stratus]

Much of pharloom seems to have dried up

[flint wadi]

theyre the same evil tbh but youre more likely to be set free from a lamp

toiling isnt as detrimental when you have no exhaustion to worry about

[charred nimbus]

At least doing the Forum arena was a good thing, all those Silkflies being freed from that huge lamp...

[mint stratus]

If I knew more about geology and volcanology I’d be able to put together a better theory on why the coral sea dried up and why there’s so much lava

[shell vessel]

WAIT IS THIS THE BUG FROM WHICH ALL THE HOUSES ARE MADE

[maiden meteor]

Pharloom has its own “laws”

[mint stratus]

They might just be made to resemble them

[whole juniper]

Looks like it pulls the houses

[charred nimbus]

I wish they made a Moorwing themed house for Hornet, i would never leave that place in my main save

[shell vessel]

Yeah but this particular type of house is present in at least: Dirtmouth, Crystal Peak, Bilehaven and Flea Caravan

[maiden meteor]

btw what do you think us purpose of Bellhart

[mint stratus]

:0

[maiden meteor]

just a repose for pilgrims?

[zinc pivot]

Bellhome isnt enough for you?
Why do you want more free real estates

[twilit sable]

I wish we get to see them in flea games

[charred nimbus]

just a city i think

[silk vector]

Do you think the reason Hera looks different from other Weavers is because she was created from a different bug?

[mint stratus]

Mining naturally forming bells

[zinc pivot]

Bellhart is just a town

[gentle aspen]

abyss deeper than water

[charred nimbus]

I freed this world from everything, all i ask for is to be rich

[shell vessel]

It's interesting that bellways are a "vein" on the map, spanning all the way from citadel into marrow

[zinc pivot]

I think she bound bugs like hornet does

[charred nimbus]

That's just because Herrah was retconned to being a weaver...

[mint stratus]

Maybe it’s due to the bellbeasts inadvertently tracking them all around?

[flint wadi]

binding is a hornet thing though, eva treats it as such

[zinc pivot]

Arguably weirdest stuff in silksong
Naturally formed bells
These are metal not some ancient bugs’ shells

[silk vector]

Wasn’t Hera always meant to be a Weaver?

[flint wadi]

probably? most likely?

[charred nimbus]

Didn't the Deep docks guys made those bells?

[mint stratus]

Oh I was messing with you

[silk vector]

That doesn’t change the way Hornet appears

[terse warren]

Does she? Doesn't First Sinner also bind

[charred nimbus]

Nope

[hidden crater]

i have some news for you....

[twilit sable]

Maybe she is broodmother of weavers?

[zinc pivot]

Well look at weaverqueen ending

[abstract rivet]

hornets ancestors are legit ww2 war criminals

[terse warren]

That's not how Weavers work

[charred nimbus]

I'm pretty sure Weavers don't reproduce

[mint stratus]

Interesting take but I’ll hear you out

[zinc pivot]

Weavers are magical mules

[gentle aspen]

she most likely wasn’t considered a weaver before and they redesigned her in the second game to make her more weaverlike

It also isn’t implied she wasn’t made from a pharlid either

[terse warren]

Not with each other no

[gentle aspen]

Don’t be weird

[zinc pivot]

Gms is a homophobic
Weaver yuri aint real

[hidden crater]

phantom got bars yo 🗣️

[twilit sable]

What about that little weavers in hollow knight 1?

[gentle aspen]

jojo

[flint wadi]

obviously binding -the healing move- could be done by most weavers i imagine, thats kinda the main property of silk

its mainly - binding nature's and parts of others - to oneself thats hornet specific

[gentle aspen]

retcon

[terse warren]

Probably not even canon anymore

[twilit sable]

Aura farming.

[zinc pivot]

Looks like some phantom blood was spilled

[maiden meteor]

theater kid

[hidden crater]

mild tickle

[charred nimbus]

Phantom is the biggest aura farming of Silksong

[terse warren]

Could you send the Eva dialogue where she says it's unique to Hornet

[zinc pivot]

It was truly their battle tendency

[mint stratus]

I mean they may be false weavers? Like how some of the deepnest enemies make themselves resemble weavers

[twilit sable]

Strange, perhaps they are not real weavers even tho their name is weaver.

[crude marsh]

Little weavers in HK could be weavers that devolved due to the Radiances infection, thats the only thing i have heard that makes sense

[gentle aspen]

okay but stalking devouts are explicitly modeling themselves after herrah

I’m gonna sneeze

nvm it left me

[flint wadi]

eva taking an interest to it also indirectly implies to me that she didnt see anything like hornet

[gentle aspen]

fuck you auby

[terse warren]

Mhhhh

[zinc pivot]

I guess hornet inherited pale kings capacity to change his nature
PK changed from wyrm to tiny wyrm

[gentle aspen]

it’s like the only thing she got from pk

[charred nimbus]

😭

[hidden crater]

this has to be bait right

[flint wadi]

plus if all weavers could bind natures couldnt they just bind gms

[mint stratus]

Also a love of buzzsaws

[terse warren]

What did I even do 😭

[gentle aspen]

Wispfire lantern prolly isn’t that bad, claw mirrors being on here is probably bait, and this doesn’t belong here anyways

[gentle aspen]

You made my sneeze leave

[maiden meteor]

https://tenor.com/view/ragebait-rage-bait-lol-lmao-gif-3554026694133497645

[silk vector]

It could also be the Weaver’s attempt to make more Weavers.

[terse warren]

I would NEVER do such a thing

[hidden crater]

they said quicksling is trash 😭

[terse warren]

I do think GMS is able to bind though ngl

[mint stratus]

Like Eva without the attempt at divinity?

[gentle aspen]

okay then they’re stupid who cares

[flint wadi]

oh most likely, given that strung to serve is a thing

well, was a thing*

[terse warren]

???

[crude marsh]

True true

[twilit sable]

Don't listen to ragebait. Or else you are getting baited.

[flint wadi]

the unused ending in which gms seemingly binds hornet

yk the one

[terse warren]

Ahhh

[hidden crater]

yeah ok its bait

[terse warren]

I mean yeah it does seem like GMS's plan is to Bind the Weavers

[silk vector]

Like, they tried pumping pharlids with silk to attempt to recreate their origins

[zinc pivot]

Strung to serve is based on an old mechanic though
Where you need to hit tuning forks persumably to weaken gms with the melody

If you didnt activate enough forks that ending happened

[flint wadi]

god where is that sweet song sauce in my silksong

[mint stratus]

In the memory the weavers seemed way smaller compared to how big the ones we see are

[fallen turtle]

honestly i dont really care much for the weaver lore but the worldbuilding in this game has me hooked. like, the various ruined ecosystems, the sandblasted coral reef and its kingdom... i just wanna learn about the past of these places that were established (i'm assuming) before the citadel

[hidden crater]

you forgot the best part about strung to serve

[flint wadi]

thats also really neat why didnt they make it a thing :(

[crude marsh]

I think you can get that ending, you just have to not bind her in the standard ending. unless ur talking about diff ending

[mint stratus]

Gonna be honest, I don’t think gms can walk