sk-lore

[ebon silo]

Copyright I'd assume

[silk dirge]

ok wait actually theyre goated

[stuck berry]

https://tenor.com/view/dexter-doakes-squint-stare-suspicious-gif-14432154109786838518

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe you guys are listening to the wrong radio stations

[silk dirge]

my dad plays them a lot on road trips so i associate them with that

[foggy fractal]

i don't have radio

[silver spire]

like, genuinely i cannot for the LIFE of me determine why these songs are popular

[stuck berry]

you like jack stauber your opinion is invalid

[foggy fractal]

only radio in my car, and i don't go outside so

[silk dirge]

most of the time i just turn off the radio when driving

[whole juniper]

Spotify for me

[bronze turret]

Huh, I had the opposite experience with Hollow Knight's soundtrack. It had been so long since I've listened to a game soundtrack that followed a more "thematic" way of composing (like incorporating the specific themes of the story into the piece) and with such emotional range that I can identify every piece played clearly, like Toby Fox's soundtracks!

[ebon silo]

The only peak music I listen to is grandparents house where everything is ticking and humming

[whole juniper]

Teenage white girls

[silk dirge]

is your grandparents house cogwork core

[stuck berry]

your grandparents are the cogwork dancers

[ebon silo]

Maybe actually

[sinful nimbus]

Step out into the New Norm 🗣️

[ebon silo]

Everything fking ticks and hum like I'm in some machine

[silk dirge]

we all know objectively the best music is boeing 777-300er ge90 engine spool up and its not even close

[stuck berry]

the new norm ain't the same as the old norm...

[sinful nimbus]

Groovy

[silver spire]

ok thats fair

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/darkest-dungeon-ancestor-gif-21405227

this is important silksong lore

[silk dirge]

it sounds better than the vast majority of songs produced today fr 😭

[sinful nimbus]

Sometimes you just need something to bop your head to

[silk dirge]

i am a big hans zimmer fan

[stuck berry]

shoutout to caravan palace

[graceful grail]

After listening to soul sanctum in my AirPod maxes, it gained a lot of respect from me

[silk dirge]

i need to start blasting no time for caution when driving

[fading whale]

Oh yeah no there's not a chance that I could ever be played a hollow knight piece and not know which one it is , it's just that for example I can't recall exactly the resting grounds theme in my head.

[silver spire]

i blast john williams violin concerto no 1

[ebon silo]

Shout-out to opening titles and coup de grace

[sinful nimbus]

Resting Grounds is like the HK soundtrack

[silk dirge]

imagine blasting like fucking mozart

[bronze turret]

What's wrong with Jack Stauber? 😭

[silk dirge]

that would be silly as fuck

[silver spire]

HEY DONT DISS MY HORN CONCERTO IN Eb LIKE THAT

i vibe to that on a metaphysical level

[ebon silo]

You like listening to the cemetery

[silver spire]

especially the third movement

[stuck berry]

evil and vile for wicked hearts and grizzly people

[fading whale]

You're right my bad I closed my eyes and I recalled it after all it's good

[graceful grail]

I play French horn, French horn is awesome

[ebon silo]

The french people have horns? Oh you guys are aliens

[silk dirge]

it would be a great change where i live where the vast majority of songs people blast out of their cars are "how many slurs can i string together in one sentence" challenges

[silver spire]

you should try and play the horn concerto then

[fading whale]

It's kinda crazy how I clearly I remember it now shortly after saying I can't

[sinful nimbus]

Everytime I hear the C octave resting grounds starts with its all I can think of

[muted lantern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1370428908108910633/1370974740314984489/guggaughGaming.gif

[fading whale]

What is the worst hk track then

[silk dirge]

like ok if thats what you want to listen to fine but dont make everyone else hear it 😭

[stuck berry]

queens gardens have to be an all timer for me

[fading whale]

Probably royal waterways ?

[graceful grail]

French horn Concerto in Eb is really hard, I hope he pulled that name out of his head

[stuck berry]

probably colo of fools

[sinful nimbus]

Crystal Peak insists upon itself

[stuck berry]

it's just drums

[fading whale]

Eh that's not even a track tho

[ebon silo]

Idk if Mr morales would be counted I don't think any of songs include that type of description

[fading whale]

Nahhh I like it, definitely not worse than waterways

[silver spire]

it is, although i did manage to play it on the euphonium that one time

[bronze turret]

https://tenor.com/view/pedro-monkey-puppet-meme-awkward-gif-15268759

[foggy fractal]

ok shaman down

[bronze turret]

...........BABY HOTLINE--

[foggy fractal]

which crest next guys

[silver spire]

ok, be so fr tho, yall GOT to listen to the Invisible city of Kizeth by rimsky korsakov

or scottish legend by amy beach

[silk dirge]

my favorite is once i was in los angeles and theres just dudes standing around trying to sell you disks of who fucking knows what

[silver spire]

they're LEGENDARY pieces that most ppl dont even know about

[sinful nimbus]

I only listen to anime openings sorry

[stuck berry]

please hold me close to you

[bronze turret]

For a second I thought you just wrote "scottish play"

[stuck berry]

i used to listen to doctor a lot i wish he expanded on that one

[silk dirge]

ninjago opening clears all of those

[stuck berry]

i used to be the type to only listen to show or game osts i liked lmao

[fading whale]

There should be a silksongmusic channel

[silk dirge]

is it just me or did anyone else think "why tf is there a ninjago character in silksong" when they saw trobbios tornado attack

[stuck berry]

there should

[silk dirge]

that was my fucking childhood 😭

[graceful grail]

I was like how did Spinjitzu get in silk song?

[stuck berry]

sherma has master wu's hat what's that about

[sinful nimbus]

Everyone born after like 2000 has a phase like that I think

[silver spire]

when i saw that, i immediately thought

https://tenor.com/view/beyblade-ironic-osg-funny-spin-gif-17778520

[graceful grail]

I’m the only one in my very large friend group who likes that kind of music

[silk dirge]

i mean idk if ill ever grow out of that

[fading whale]

It's not a phase mom

[silk dirge]

i just like it better

[sinful nimbus]

Nothing wrong like that

(But you should be listening to tame impala fr fr)

[foggy fractal]

this guy MIGHT be a beyblade

[stuck berry]

nothing wrong with liking that but broaden your horizens some methinks

[silk dirge]

honestly i had the biggest temptation ever to like hack bluetooth speakers during school rallies and change the music 😭

[silver spire]

nah yall should listen to "my right ear became a frog"

[fading whale]

Most of the music I like is from games movies shows or anime, but I like "normal" music too. It's just much less in comparison

[silk dirge]

there is no way they were playing music at safe volume levels

[silver spire]

bro like during passing periods they blast the worst music possible 😭

[silk dirge]

it was way too loud

[sinful nimbus]

if every silksong song was replaced with Digital Black by King Gizzard I think the game would be better

[stuck berry]

someone in my family took me to a church event on saturday and i swear they were blasting the loudest most obnoxious christian rock and whatever else they thought was appropriate

why do they like ymca

[fading whale]

It would be better if it was crazy bus title screen music tbh (those who know)

[silk dirge]

once i was working the robotics booth at a freshman introduction night and i think the cheer team was doing something and the speakers glitched out so they finished their dance or whatever and then the speakers that instant started fucking BLASTING

it genuinely felt like the oppenheimer nuke scene lmao

where the shockwave takes a few seconds to arrive

[foggy fractal]

💔 there's like 10 christian songs everyone plays ad nauseam

[fading whale]

ERMMM OPPENHEIMER SPOILERS THE BOMB GOES OFF?!?!?!

[silk dirge]

no way physics spoilers sound travels slower than light???

[stuck berry]

my lebomb... it le kills people??,,

[fading whale]

You mean to tell me you used le japaneseinnocentcitizenkiller2000... To do... what...

[lethal burrow]

spoilers in the lower channel?

[fading whale]

Holy we've gone off topic

[stuck berry]

maybe don't use that word lol

anyone got any lore questions

[silk dirge]

yeah wait isnt that a slur lmao

[fading whale]

It is??

I don't know I'm greek

[foggy fractal]

yes, what crest to kill lost lace next

[silk dirge]

yeah it was used a lot in america i think

[stuck berry]

didn't you kill her with all of them

[foggy fractal]

yeah yeah I meant no heals this time as well

[silk dirge]

especially in regards to japanese internment camps

[fading whale]

Alright I fixed o

[stuck berry]

during world war 2 where they spread a lot of anti-japanese propaganda yeah

[silk dirge]

anyways should probably get off this topic

[foggy fractal]

no no heals no spells no tools

[stuck berry]

see this is much funnier

[fading whale]

Do beast crest

Missing out on its only feature

[stuck berry]

i don't know i feel curse and architect are the hardest

anything else feels kinda trivial

[foggy fractal]

ok I'll do architect then beast, I've done hunter, shaman and witch now

[fading whale]

I guess best does have a good charge attack and normal attack

Architect charge attack still nukes tho even post nerf

[stuck berry]

shaman's got range if you're not healing to begin with it's probably easier than like wanderer

[fading whale]

I'll bring up a lore question again since we drowned it in ost talk earlier

[silver spire]

architects crest charge attack carried shredded organs

[fading whale]

Sula and Jiji serve the same role for the masters and the robots right? They even look alike?

[silk dirge]

probably

[stuck berry]

seems to be the case

[fading whale]

And they used the same hand motion to summon void

[stuck berry]

i don't know why jiji can do a better job at summoning a shade, maybe it has to do with intent since sula merely wanted someone to beat up his boss whereas jiji was providing a service

[fading whale]

I do wonder why sula seems to be suffering from the job, they have to take on the pain of fallen kingdoms? They are immortal? It kinda confused me

And yeah Jiji seems much less bothered by her job and also knowledgeable about the dangers of void, she hides away when the shade comes

She also does seem older than sula though, so maybe that's just experience

Though both are definitely old af

[silver spire]

why is jiji able to do stuff wihtout angering the steel souls though

while sula is tainted by the dark

[foggy fractal]

ok architect done

[fading whale]

Probably Jiji is placed there for that reason

And sula was doing something unsanctioned

Trying to summon void for their own purposes not following instructions

But I do wonder what's so painful about their task. And have the steelhearts made them immortal? Why do they say the steelhearts feel so little? So many questions here

I hope silksong DLC takes as long as HK dlc did to come out, which was like 6 months or something

[silver spire]

since verdania seems to be regrowing after the death of green prince, i hope that we get a dlc that allows us to have another 3 acts where we're wandering about the regrown areas in pharloom

and it ends with hornet going back to hallownest

idk im just spitballing, its most likely not gonna happen

[vivid kernel]

does GMS need to be worshipped in the same way as the other essence based higher beings

in order to sustain herself or is she just kind of crazy

[torn lagoon]

is anyone kinda disappointed the crests are hornet literally taking memories and stuff, i thought she would be a martial artist or something from her training

[pine garden]

okay real question. Groal the Great and his gang hate the citadel and shit, but when you use the needolin, we can see Groal is attached by strings like other haunted enemies

[charred nimbus]

I prefer the way TC did actually

[vivid kernel]

isnt the haunting effecting practically everything

[torn lagoon]

why?

[foggy fractal]

ok beast crest done

[vivid kernel]

even wild animals are haunted

[foggy fractal]

I lost the shaman run video nooo wtf

[pine garden]

like we can see the haunting strings come off of him towards GMS

[charred nimbus]

What is this? (what you're doing i mean)

[pine garden]

so is Groal the Great and his gang all haunted and thus "controlled" by GMS but are still hating on Citadel regardless

[vivid kernel]

alignment with the citadel isnt a predicate to being haunted i dont think

[foggy fractal]

Lost Lace no healing no tools no spells

[charred nimbus]

GMS didn't create the citadel tho

[pine garden]

I noticed this because there are other bosses who aren't haunted, and thus lack the strings so it was noteworthy that Groal had it

[vivid kernel]

wasnt the citadel built in order to subdue GMS

[pine garden]

I guess so, but I doubt Groal would care and hate on GMS as well since she was the one responsible for the Citadel and the Citadel's object of worship

[charred nimbus]

Some of the ones that are not are the craws and the mottled skarrs

[pine garden]

Bilewater wouldn't be so bile if GMS never came

[acoustic holly]

Is the citadel still working to keep gms asleep?

[charred nimbus]

That wasn't GMS intention tho, the weavers just got beef with GMS and created the citadel to put her to sleep hence making Bilewater shitty

[foggy fractal]

I started like 4 hours ago doing all crests with healing but no spells and tool, did that
now I'm trying to do it with no healing too

[acoustic holly]

Cause she seems awake enough to hurt us

[charred nimbus]

Yes, but she's slowly waking up until the point that we fight her wich she awakes

GMS started waking up long time ago, when the weavers started fleeing

[acoustic holly]

Well she’s very much controlling the citadel now so how are they to stop her

[regal crow]

At the end, with the trap ending, why did lace save us? I just beat gms and that blew me away

[charred nimbus]

Because she hates her mom basically

[acoustic holly]

then why are the citadel caste kidnapping weavers

[charred nimbus]

That's a GMS doing

[acoustic holly]

Aren’t they supposed to be the ones helping lull her to sleep

[teal drift]

GMS waking up in slomo

[charred nimbus]

She started controlling everything when she started waking more

[acoustic holly]

so she changes the citadel to serve her instead of imprison her

[charred nimbus]

Because they're haunted, they have no idea what they're doing

[acoustic holly]

So did the weavers make this place so screwed up

[teal drift]

the weavers and the common bugs that suceded them

[charred nimbus]

Well, actually, the citadel bugs also have no idea they are putting GMS to sleep actually, this was just a fake religion the weavers implanted

Because the common bug or even the high caste of the citadel don't know the citadel true porpuse

[acoustic holly]

What about the conductor

[teal drift]

Tbf i think the weavers genuinely believed themselves divine and wanted people to worship them.

[elfin minnow]

i wonder if lumaflies remember their past lives

[teal drift]

I also think the highest ranking common bugs probably were aware of the cradle and that it contains an eepy god.

[acoustic holly]

They are very much aware the cradle has a god in it that’s like the entire point of the pilgrimage

[charred nimbus]

Problaby the chiefs knew, the pontif of the vaultkeepers, the conductors and the architects

[charred nimbus]

The pilgrimage is made so more bugs can join the citadel choir and make song

[acoustic holly]

so the weavers are lowkey the bad guys

[pine garden]

seems like it

[charred nimbus]

yeah, they kinda are

[pine garden]

they also seemingly dabbled with void too

[acoustic holly]

I thought the pilgrimage was to see the god at the top

As they worshipped her

[pine garden]

there is a weaver nest in the abyss. It could've been the Weavers idea to do the vessels project in Hollow Knight in the first place as well

[manic pewter]

and the weavers also hate pale king

[charred nimbus]

No, they didn't worship GMS, the bugs did the pilgrimage to the citadel to make song to keep GMS to sleep

[acoustic holly]

Actually? Cause they seem to do him a lot of favors

Pretty sure most seals of binding in the kingdom are of weaver origin

[pine garden]

since we dont see any bugs in the craddle, the general area is closed off and very dusty and unused. Its probably fair to assume there haven't been any bugs there for a long time

doubt the people are aware of GMS's existence aside from the very top of the caste

[acoustic holly]

I swear conductor ballador said something about how the purpose of the journey was to meet the monarch

[manic pewter]

Check out red memory, where theyre talking to hornet and being like "Prove yourself more Weaver than Wyrm"

[charred nimbus]

I think it's good to take into consideration that to acess the cradle you learn songs, wich i think means that proving you're a rockstar to the elevator was a plan to use the best song to try to keep the sleep of GMS last longer

[acoustic holly]

Obviously but that’s like a prove you’re actually one of us as well

Otherwise if hornet wasn’t enough weaver then they wouldn’t have bothered showing her silk stuff

[pine garden]

Weavers seem to have big egos, enough to want their half-god cousin to be more them than the godly being who was the father

[acoustic holly]

That’s like a people thing in general tho

[pine garden]

yep

[eternal sigil]

The conductors (or at least 2/3 of those we know of in game) seem to know of it, and the Pontiff of the Vault Keepers learned it somehow

[charred nimbus]

That's true, but weavers are more way to the top with their egos then normal

[acoustic holly]

Also is the radiance a pale being or just higher being

[muted lantern]

moth

[acoustic holly]

I mean they are like an incredibly advanced civilization

[pine garden]

also aside from just ego they also hoped that Hornet being special would be able to liberate Pharloom and kill GMS

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/moth-yay-yippee-rain-world-rain-world-watcher-gif-8233571432750188287

[acoustic holly]

they don’t have the complete power of a god but they do have the technology of one

[pine garden]

they'd want Hornet to be invested in her Weaver heritage so she'd care enough to do the Pharloom side quest

[teal drift]

GMS innocent af

[acoustic holly]

Pale king was lowkey not that bad

[pine garden]

definitely not. But GMS is hot af, so she can't be that bad

[charred nimbus]

Bro, Rune rage is actually canonically one of the strongest abilities in this world but gameplay wise it's so shitty

[acoustic holly]

I said complete, they’re pretty high up there

[charred nimbus]

I know, i was just mentioning

[acoustic holly]

I’d definitely put them at like higher beings but not like dream entire civilizations into existence higher beings

But they seem to be able to focus and control soul and stuff

[charred nimbus]

Careful, people will throw pichtforks at you for saying that (i'm also down bad)

[acoustic holly]

It’s actually pretty good

[pine garden]

yeah he was a pretty great guy. Now we run propaganda and blame the Weavers for the Vessel Project to further make our GOAT innocent

[acoustic holly]

I mean it’s like not a bad idea or anything

[stuck berry]

she is the size of your hand

[acoustic holly]

Atleast it’s his own children the weavers are just inventing capitalism to keep themselves safe

[pine garden]

yeah but its not socially acceptable to say that in most of HK community

[acoustic holly]

It’s a video game

[pine garden]

I've always been a vessel project defender but its not a popular idea in the fandom

[acoustic holly]

Like it’s obviously incredibly immoral but from a utilitarian sense it makes sense as a sacrifice

[pine garden]

yeah

[acoustic holly]

It’s not like he didn’t know it was bad

[manic pewter]

Pale king is a pure utilitarian

[acoustic holly]

Like he actually does care for his subjects

and eventually cares for his kids a little when he realizes oh shit this shade thing is still my son

[pine garden]

to me it felt like he realized half-way through Hollow Knight's training that the Vessels weren't actually fully hollow of thought

but still went with the plan through cause at that point the sacrifices were so great something must've been done

[stuck berry]

do you guys think there would be so much discourse around his mass infanticide project if the plan actually worked

[eternal sigil]

when the cost is too great:

[acoustic holly]

Something I think is interesting is are the vessels actually related

Or is it just the shade wearing the body

[eternal sigil]

yeah I think they are siblings, or at least the Vessels are

[muted lantern]

pale king could build a machine called the orphan mulcher and people would still defend him

[acoustic holly]

Or is the shade still have the “blood” of the parents as the shade is technically the ghost of the child

[eternal sigil]

Not sure about the Shades themselves

[pine garden]

it would probably be more 50/50 in the community

[eternal sigil]

Are the ghosts of two family members still related?

[eternal sigil]

that's the White Palace vro

[muted lantern]

People still argue online that calling the knight ghost was an insult by hornet, instead of just a flat description of what they were essentially

[stuck berry]

she is the size of your foot

[acoustic holly]

Like the shades are also the dead kids but do they still have the pale being power in them after losing the shell? Or did they even have it in the shell

[eternal sigil]

yeah because people are stupid

[elfin minnow]

is green prince's lover's soul immortal? cuz technically u only destroyed the robot shell

[stuck berry]

i think they ran the whiteward experiments on him and put his silkflies into what would become the cogwork dancers

[elfin minnow]

so is he immortal

green prince died for nuthin 😂

[acoustic holly]

so ultimately the real question is the shade, (or the knight in the silksong true ending) still part pale being

[eternal sigil]

green prince is kind of a jobber tbqh

[acoustic holly]

Lowkey he was a bit of a downer

[pine garden]

bro is depressed and mourning give him a break

[eternal sigil]

gives up on life completely and then attacks hornet for trying to console him in the depths of his reverie

[acoustic holly]

Then we do this dumb boss fight with him

[elfin minnow]

why cant they just put green prince's lover's silkfly/soul in another robot after the cogwork dnacers are destroyed

[foggy fractal]

hk doesn't have cannonical heights because it doesn't really matter
like they could be like double the standard human and everything would still function just fine

[edgy nebula]

id say no, maybe really partially since it still retains the shape of the head

[acoustic holly]

No fr tho

[muted lantern]

anyone else think cogwork dancers are gonna get the sisters of battle treatment, where in the boss rush you beat the dancers, then green prince spawns in and you have to fight all three?

[pine garden]

I mean, it was castle doctrine. She was literally invading his most precious memories and his most precious area, his literal mind without his consent

[acoustic holly]

cause atleast in the form of the knight the higher being part of it was a big part of its strength. then the rest comes from focusing of the void into a will or identity

[pine garden]

definitely, the vessels are definitely sentient enough

[eternal sigil]

well sure but compare him with Karmelita, or Garmond, or even Zylotol

[acoustic holly]

Maybe having the identity of a pale
Being is what made the void be able to focus so well?

[elfin minnow]

so technically green prince's lover is immortal

[eternal sigil]

all of them lost loved ones and still have the gumption to do something about it (granted Zylotol's actions are completely insane but that isn't all on him)

[acoustic holly]

A lot of the knights power comes from its actual body

[pine garden]

thought definitely much different from normal bugs. The Knight never spoke, and the vessels could hold back Radiance's infection for significant periods of time

[acoustic holly]

But now it’s body is kinda gone so is it still a pale being of wyrm and root

[pine garden]

the druggie that does Plasmoid

[acoustic holly]

I think the vessels strength ironically comes from giving void a will
Even though they were not supposed to have a will or mind

[stuck berry]

interesting idea but i don't know if i want to fight that

[muted lantern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1221295277810389042/1224890619508293672/-20568057_ScrewdriverLaptop.gif

[pine garden]

what happens to the central combined attack when its the Dancers Polycule?

[acoustic holly]

I like how the community is basically just gonna peer pressure tc into bringing back the god seekers

[acoustic holly]

And I’m all for it

[muted lantern]

the communist?

[foggy fractal]

because its gonna be a tough fight ?

[muted lantern]

comrade, we need the godseekers

[acoustic holly]

Meant community

[foggy fractal]

or it messes with the lore or smth

[pine garden]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-hollow-knight-hollow-night-silksong-faridulasimanet-sherma-silksong-gif-171830693794769624

Sherma a commie fr fr

[stuck berry]

if it was anything like godhome it wouldn't

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/jajajajaja-gif-19383074

this is sherma as a leader to me

[pine garden]

how could you, I gaslit myself into believing that Hornet was growing very fond and adoptive of Sherma thorough my playthrough

[stuck berry]

i always loved sherma but when i saw he was in whiteward i felt like i had to pick up my chud son from kindergarten

[pine garden]

"my baby, my precious lil baby" was my attitude towards Sherma that I superimposed on Hornet

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/my-chud-son-after-i-force-him-to-drink-still-water-silly-dog-dog-chud-chud-son-still-water-gif-13818962661228557438

[acoustic holly]

Y’all are fucked up

[muted lantern]

wait until you hear about trees

[pine garden]

https://tenor.com/view/ratatouille-meme-memes-reads-letter-gif-20713760

me reading the quest description and seeing Whiteward and Sherma in the same paragraph

[foggy fractal]

there's really no reason to hate Sherma, like he's innocent and naive and all but he's a good guy, no reason for Hornet to dislike him

[pine garden]

Hornet came off as pretty nice to Sherma

[foggy fractal]

yeah because Sherma is a likeable fellow

[pine garden]

she'd tell him the journey is dangerous but he wouldn't listen so she was like "aight, good luck on your journey then"

[muted lantern]

if you're cold he's cold, put sherma in the microwave

[stuck berry]

he's got plot armor it's ok

[pine garden]

https://tenor.com/view/flash-microwave-baby-gif-8132296605618640582

[eternal sigil]

Bug scientist who is Plasmium's strongest soldier

[pine garden]

While Hornet came off as quite nice to Sherma, it did worry me how she was fine with him just fucking around in Pharloom. But then again it wasn't her responsibility and she did warn him so

[stuck berry]

alternate timeline where jack vine sucked at writing cute characters and everyone hated sherma

[muted lantern]

we should have gotten the alchemist to grow weed instead

much safer hobby

[eternal sigil]

greyroot:

[stuck berry]

do we ever get any indication to sherma's age

[eternal sigil]

literally The Bud is the most existential threat to Hornet we see in the entire game

[muted lantern]

if trailer sherma got put in the game

nobody would like him

[pine garden]

only acceptable answer is baby

[stuck berry]

i mean people like zote

[eternal sigil]

where Hornet consistently calls Lace "child" she calls Sherma "little one," this could imply he is a youth or alternatively just be a remark on his smallness

[muted lantern]

hornet refers to nuu and gilly as child too right? its safe to say thats how she refers to all children

[pine garden]

I think she calls Lace a "child" in a condescending manner, since Lace herself is also very condescending towards Hornet

[edgy nebula]

condescending and because she has the body of a child

[eternal sigil]

everybody including the game itself calls Lace a child

[pine garden]

maybe she respects Sherma and doesn't belittle his pilgrimage by calling him a child

[muted lantern]

hornet isnt really one to give insulting nicknames, they are always pretty flat observations, like gilded one, tall one, little one, etc

[pine garden]

fair

[muted lantern]

she also calls other child characters child, it seems like thats just how she refers to kids

[eternal sigil]

you don't get more objective than the Bestiary descriptions

[pine garden]

does she call any other pilgrims child?

[muted lantern]

not afaik, assumedly the pilgrims set off as they reach adulthood

[pine garden]

cause it would probably sound belittling to call a pilgrim a child, which is my impression of her calling Sherma a little one instead

[eternal sigil]

she calls Steel Seer Zi "child of steel" but that seems to be a discrete/distinctive thing

[stuck berry]

caretaker has no reason to sarcastically say her mind is that of a child to hornet unless it was genuine

[muted lantern]

shes saying child of, in that instance

[eternal sigil]

gms is not mentioned anywhere in here; it is not a relative article

[stuck berry]

"body of a child and mind to match"

[vivid kernel]

Ok I listened to the whole thing lol

[muted lantern]

i was talking about the line child of steel, talking about zi, i agree lace is a kid, i was replying to a message above yours

[eternal sigil]

I consider Lace to be basically a Peter Pan figure

but like, edgy and stuff

[vivid kernel]

CL definitely used the Dies Irae motif all throughout the soundtrack rather than make a new original melody. Or I guess you could argue he transformed the Dies Irae melody into a bunch of new works in this game but you know

[pine garden]

I thought you meant Peter as in the guy from Family Guy

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/darkest-dungeon-ancestor-gif-21405227

[eternal sigil]

aye

[pine garden]

completely forgot about Peter Pan. Is he still relevant nowadays?

havent seen any Peter Pan media at all since like mid 2010's

[eternal sigil]

🤷

[muted lantern]

to me a more recent comparison is miquella from elden ring, though its much less explicit he still has the mind of a child i still feel his character and his choices are colored by childish naivete.

especially his plot in the dlc

[eternal sigil]

interesting

hadn't thought of that but it has some parallels

[whole juniper]

compared to hornet lace might be a child

Lace was built as a child

[pine garden]

she acts like a brat as well

[whole juniper]

That’s just how gms made her. A husk made to act like a child

[muted lantern]

elden ring dlc spoilers but i think the plan of ||people wont do bad things if we lobotomize everyone and make them incapable of bad things!! this is the ethical solution!|| is super childish

[eternal sigil]

everyone in the game except the literal gods and Mr. Mushroom is a kid compared to Hornet

[whole juniper]

If you haven’t played the game this is not a spoiler I have no idea what this means lmao

[eternal sigil]

however she doesn't go about calling everyone this

[whole juniper]

cause she’s not rude

[muted lantern]

just in case someones midway through the dlc

[whole juniper]

an

Ah

[pine garden]

The Dreamers are probably older than Hornet. The implication is that they were around before GMS's reign and before she created the weavers

so maybe the Gay Princes are older than Hornet? Dunno

[ebon silo]

Well of course the dreamers are older than hornet

[muted lantern]

Hornet is a very polite person, i don't even think she gives rude nicknames to people she hates, does she even give an insulting nickname to kratt?

[pine garden]

I mean SS Dreamers, Karmetilla, Nyleth and Crusty

[whole juniper]

They are 100%

[whole juniper]

what…

They aren’t really even a comparison to dreamers

[pine garden]

I just call them dreamers cause they're the SS equivalent to the Dreamers and you fight them in a dream realm

[whole juniper]

There’s three of then

And it’s a memory not a dream realm 🤔

[pine garden]

close enough

[foggy fractal]

chat how much dmg does maxed out needle deal ? 21 ?

[whole juniper]

what abt it

[muted lantern]

i believe, with no other buffs

[whole juniper]

explain what it is

[pine garden]

Herrah's just fat and she lost her mask dunno

[eternal sigil]

OK hold on I remember something I considered earlier today

[foggy fractal]

all we know is that she's 100% weaver

[whole juniper]

She is 100%

[muted lantern]

she has to be, hornets half weaver

she looks way different because its a retconish thing and she might not have always been intended to be a weaver

[eternal sigil]

Specifically in HK backstory chronology

[whole juniper]

She is a fatass and her fat rolls come up over her head

[foggy fractal]

we have no in lore explanation

[toxic mulch]

I don't think they designed herrah with the intention of all this weaver lore

[pine garden]

she ate the other weavers duh

[foggy fractal]

best we can give is a meta one, and that is TC didn't design her to be a weaver originally

[whole juniper]

Yea

[whole juniper]

Grubfather… tsk

[eternal sigil]

Apparently Hornet's entire tutelage under the bees and a good chunk of her life under White Lady was able to happen after the Dreamers/Hollow Knight/Black Egg plot

[toxic mulch]

Herrah is definitely a weaver and we just don't have a good explanation for why she looks so different

[eternal sigil]

Going off of the Red Memory

[pine garden]

the suspiciously Weaver shaped stomach Herrah:

[muted lantern]

So why did hornet get sent to the hive? was vespa and the bees trusted friends of herrahs?

[whole juniper]

the pale kings dih was too big 😳

[whole juniper]

not that we know of any relationship between weaver and bee other than hornet

[eternal sigil]

Therefore it does actually seem that the Hollow Knight scheme bought Hallownest a fair amount of time before THK broke and things began to go to shit

[pine garden]

maybe it was assumed to be safer from infection and a better training place than deepnest?

[toxic mulch]

Well in the original map of the game the hive was gonna be in deepnest but we can just assume herrah and vespa knew each other

[whole juniper]

or cause the other weavers couldn’t wield nail and hornet didn’t have the beast like strength fill weavers had

[pine garden]

she could've been friends with Hive Knight. They both place similar traps that explode with pins in all directions, both use swords/needles and growing up in Hive could be why she likes fluffy bugs

[eternal sigil]

Spiritual thiccness

[edgy nebula]

worry not, it is spoilered

[whole juniper]

Hive knight has almost no lore in the first place it’s so sad

[toxic mulch]

It is a spoilered image,for some reason discord isn't making the image have the overlay for the person posting the image

[eternal sigil]

also could explain her childhood fancies of having wings when she grew up

[pine garden]

they kept feeding her while she was a dreamer. But she didn't need to eat to stay alive, so the fat just kept accumulating duh

[toxic mulch]

It is but I've come to expect stupid changes from them at this point

[whole juniper]

She is still fat

And very dead

[pine garden]

its called hibernating, bears do that

[whole juniper]

She is not a grubfather!!!

[eternal sigil]

herrah is Full of Pilk

[toxic mulch]

That's why the 1 weaver ran away from the knight,scared of other creatures eating it

[muted lantern]

does hornet still call bell beast it after finding out it's a mother? or would she call it she

[whole juniper]

Bears also put themselves in dreams to seal away gods of dreams and light that infect the world and return them to a primal instinct

[whole juniper]

🙏

I’m glad you capitalized pilk that made it funnier

[toxic mulch]

Speaking of the bell beast,I swear when we encountered her babies she had 4 but in all the bellways there are only 3?

[pine garden]

Bell Beast ate one

[whole juniper]

A bear would be so powerful in hk world

[whole juniper]

bell eater?

[muted lantern]

My headcanon is herrah and vespa were very close

[whole juniper]

we don’t see that do we

[pine garden]

nah I'm just shitposting

[toxic mulch]

Probably good friends in both disliking the pale kings rule

[whole juniper]

I mean what else could have happened tho

[muted lantern]

I think her babies are out wandering, since they can come by to pick you up, they probably do their own thing

[whole juniper]

Where is number four

[whole juniper]

But it’s still just three when they find you right

[pine garden]

number 4 is off on its own adventure, next Hollow Knight Protag

[toxic mulch]

Also is the white lady raising hornet even canon anymore now that it seems the weavers mostly took that role?

[muted lantern]

i think the number of beastlings is random, sometimes it's one sometimes its 2 or 3

[toxic mulch]

Hollow knight:bellborn

No

[whole juniper]

Strange

[muted lantern]

after training with vespa she seemed to move into the white palace where white lady tutored her

[toxic mulch]

Ah

[whole juniper]

Where was this found out

[toxic mulch]

I wish we could recolor hornets cloak in game

[whole juniper]

I liked the pale cloak thing

Customizable cloaks would have been cool

[toxic mulch]

We need a dye shop in the dlc 🙏 something to spend our rosaries on

[midnight reef]

Hornet wouldnt willingly abandon her cloak though

[pine garden]

Red Memory, it seems like things there happened chronologically, so since White Lady section is after Vespa it would make sense thats how it went down

[toxic mulch]

That's why I propose she just dye her cloak

[muted lantern]

just assumed, based on the child of three queens comment from one of the devs, i believe the line the dev says was birthed by one trained by one, and taught by one. but also hornet seems to live in the white palace by the third memory in red memory, with white lady, since shes wearing white palace garb

[midnight reef]

or do much to change it visually, functionally sure, but its something she carries from the Weavers of Deepnest, one of the few things

[whole juniper]

Ah I see

[silk dirge]

did hornet weave her own cloak

[toxic mulch]

Birthed by one,trained by one,raised by one

[toxic mulch]

Yes

[midnight reef]

when she was extremely young

[silk dirge]

i feel like its kind of like a rite of passage for weavers to make their own cloak

[pine garden]

The Knight is presumably much, much older than Hornet now that I think about it

[muted lantern]

yes, presumably thats what shes doing in the red memory cutscene

[whole juniper]

she was born with it

[midnight reef]

the Weavers were still in deepnest

[silk dirge]

yeah but i thought that could just be her trying to bind for the first time

[whole juniper]

herrah had a organ that weaves red cloaks

[muted lantern]

so yeah white lady was probably the closest hornet got to a long term mother figure

[silk dirge]

she was sitting on a little red cloak in that cutscene

[pine garden]

since by the time Herrah went to sleep, Hornet was just a wee lil baby still. So the Hollow Knight must've been massive already by the time Hornet was just a wee lil baby

[whole juniper]

wait was horners cloak red cause herrahs was red

[eternal sigil]

• it could be a male parent, this is seen in several critters (including some invertebrates)
• she uses they/them in all bestiary entries mentioning the Bell Beast (Bell Beast and Bell Eater)

[silk dirge]

hallownest weavers seem to wear red cloaks

[toxic mulch]

So did hornet design her adult sized cloak when she was tiny?

[whole juniper]

I wanted to play as baby

Big missed opportunity

[silk dirge]

she probably wove it to be larger as she grew

[pine garden]

she probably adjusts her cloak over time. She's noticably taller in SS than in HK iirc

[toxic mulch]

[midnight reef]

shes the same height, new sprite, same height ;3

[eternal sigil]

new dlc where we duel THK/Pure Vessel

however we play as Baby Hornet

[pine garden]

the cloak was also much darker in HK, but it could be due to dust and shit

[whole juniper]

I wonder why some people need to make cloaks but others it’s apart of their body

[toxic mulch]

Erm you clearly missed the memory of hornet getting her biology degree

[midnight reef]

Some bugs are just born with it, often times their cloak is their wings, like the Knight's cloak are their wings

[whole juniper]

lmfao

[pine garden]

she graduated university during her stay at the white palace

[eternal sigil]

She does this in a couple of cases where a gender is given elsewhere in the game, it seems she is fairly respectfully neutral about using pronouns until knowing them for certain

[midnight reef]

A few of the pilgrims, the small horned one who dives at you has the wings as their cloak, memory serving

[toxic mulch]

I wish we got more journal entries about non combat characters

[whole juniper]

The vessels cloaks are seemingly supposed to be wings, but a fully mature vessels cloak seems to shift shape somehow even they they aren’t alive

[toxic mulch]

I'd love to know hornets opinions on sherma,the snail shamans etc

[eternal sigil]

And nothing in the game says anything about Bell Beast being a female or a male. It is a parent, but that is all which is known

[whole juniper]

She despises the snail shamans from what we know

Atleast the pharloom ones

[muted lantern]

its called a mother in the beastlings call description isnt it?

[midnight reef]

yeah, but that could be a side effect of the process the pale king/white lady used to grow THK

[eternal sigil]

And seems to be intelligent enough to "converse" with Hornet, though she doesn't seem to be able to translate any of the growls

[pine garden]

pretty fair given what they did

[stuck berry]

beating sherma to death only for hornet's journal entry for him being incessant sobbing

[eternal sigil]

oh shit does it

[toxic mulch]

I mean fair but I always love that little extra lore,the journal gives us so much on her personality

[eternal sigil]

in that case I concede the floor then

[foggy fractal]

ok i finished should I make a big video
the quality will be shit though

[ebon silo]

Floor gang

[pine garden]

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-breaking-bad-jesse-pinkman-gif-6658387537738097417

[whole juniper]

Other than the “You are locked in my basement until you clear my rat infestation” part yeah

[midnight reef]

She thinks the Snail Shamans are fucking idiots, and that Sherma represents a great hope for Pharlooms future

[muted lantern]

don't remember exactly, but i believe it's says the beastings will bring you to their mother

[stuck berry]

might as well idk

[toxic mulch]

I'm sorry it's for the lore 😔

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/darkest-dungeon-gif-23184588

[midnight reef]

She constantly repeats her belief that you cant control the void, from her experiences in the past with Hallownest

translations are not cannon

[whole juniper]

They also have a large ass

[toxic mulch]

I mean,she is right the snail shamans are complete morons

[foggy fractal]

eh I'

[midnight reef]

Hollow Knights translations have had a history of being HORRIBLE

[foggy fractal]

ll do it tommorow

[pine garden]

I liked the snail shamans being completely shameless about what they did in act 3

[whole juniper]

Yet they still sacrificed themselves

[pine garden]

like Hornet is super pissed off and the snail shamans were like "yeah lol what did you expect us to do?"

[muted lantern]

the originally language is usually the most accurate as it's closest to developers intent

[whole juniper]

I don’t like her design after looking at this image now

[midnight reef]

They didnt expect lace to force GMS into the void

[toxic mulch]

[midnight reef]

and didnt expect GMS to then try to save lace

The Shamans knew they fucked up royally when the void started seeping up through GMS's silk

[toxic mulch]

English is definitely the most definitive version of the lore

[whole juniper]

Horner was a little dumb to trust a random guy on the streets saying “I know how to kill god!”

[stuck berry]

hornet's journal refers to female characters with gender neutral pronouns even though they're stated to be female in other parts of the game like with phantom and bellbeast so i wouldn't be surprised if some of the ones listed neutrally do have genders we just aren't sure about

[molten python]

lace didn't really force her into the void

[molten python]

didn't she just save hornet?

[whole juniper]

They didn’t account for gms being gms

[stuck berry]

sorry not lace phantom

[eternal sigil]

she is an inspirational figure for Sherma, advises him where appropriate yet only encouraging him

as for the Shamans, it is hard to say. It appears that she figured out they were Snail Shamans before the trap was sprung (if you manage to speak to Caretaker a second time before he hops down from the spot in Cradle where he talks to Hornet) and went along with the plan knowing this, so it seems she doesn't hold contempt/distrust for Shamans as a whole, but is clearly betrayed and irritated at these three for fiddling with a Void snare. However I got the notion that they themselves felt penitent about it not working because nobody expected GMS to throw everything at the wall and start tearing Pharloom apart in a mad fit to save Lace, and thus Hornet decided to work with them rather than declare enemies

[edgy nebula]

she refers to groal as they but im prrrretty sure groal is a guy

[stuck berry]

groal is most definitely a guy

[muted lantern]

it depends on where its said, if its in the hornet sections its likely biased by her way of speaking, but in the top portion of the journal entries its the closest to word of god we can really get

[stuck berry]

i think she's either just polite or terse when it comes to pronouns

[whole juniper]

Incorrect groal is a bitch

[midnight reef]

the shamans probably had a point though, there likely wasnt another way to take down GMS

without costing Hornet her freedom/life

[stuck berry]

groal looks nothing like a dog...

[whole juniper]

Void is always the answer

[eternal sigil]

Indeed, and I think this is part of why (barring the initial confrontation) Hornet is pretty level-headed in dealing with them

[whole juniper]

I wonder why gms didn’t stop the haunting after she fell into the void sea

[toxic mulch]

Hornet likely knew it was the only way but is still pissed the shamans just ran away afterwards and don't feel any remorse for it

[midnight reef]

She was trying to save Lace, the rest was irrelivant

[muted lantern]

hermits needolin dialogue gave it away for me

[whole juniper]

In act 3, the haunting doesn’t affect lace since she’s yk lost lace now

[stuck berry]

lace was never in her life haunted

[midnight reef]

yeah

[toxic mulch]

Lace was just naturally loyal until the ending of act 2

[whole juniper]

You were not keeping up with the earlier conversation im saying that the haunting wouldn’t protect lace

So why would she keep the haunting up during act 3

[eternal sigil]

He was the best hidden but still in plain sight, kind of genius

• he has a staff with him, but it is propped up on a bell in the foreground some ways in front of him
• vague serpentine figure covered in rags, but there are lots of Pharloom bugs that resemble this
• obviously living in a giant bell Diogenes style is ample cover for his massive dump truck shell

[toxic mulch]

Or well,loyal as she can be while still kinda trying to undermine GMS plans

[whole juniper]

More like she was made to be loyal but childishly rebelled

[eternal sigil]

He does share the Needolin song lyrics about "Spiral power" and "Our power" with the Maid and Caretaker, but I didn't connect those with him being a Shaman until the Act 3 reveal

[muted lantern]

I love the snail shamans

[molten python]

her Silk is just still connected with all those people, that's why the void can go through the Silk and corrupt some enemies.

[muted lantern]

bell hermit has no ass

[stuck berry]

he has a little snail beard that i thought was just a part of the rag covering his face that was broken no that's his snail beard

[hazy iron]

ass jim

[whole juniper]

her silk being connected to the enemies is what the haunting is

[toxic mulch]

I immediately clocked that the maiden was a snail shaman,didn't realize until a bit of talking with caretaker and I had no clue about hermit until silk and soul

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/gary-snail-spongebob-gif-18136377327638254070

[toxic mulch]

Ye

[molten python]

yes, why would she just disconnect the Silk

[stuck berry]

i never caught maiden but i should've she sounds so much like the shaman from the first game

[whole juniper]

She had literally no reason to keep up the haunting after she fell into the sea 🤔 she could use the extra silk to maybe stay alive or give to lace to help sustain her

[muted lantern]

snail shamans true forms are so cute

i love the little guy

hes basically ghost sized

[eternal sigil]

the staves of maid and bell hermit also both have spiral/snail shell designs for their heads, however with how covertly placed hermit's is, it is difficult to notice

[stuck berry]

we need more abject tricksters these days

[eternal sigil]

also what the hell is up with spirals and the Abyss

[toxic mulch]

So I heavily doubt it but are the snail shamans bodies made with void or even a slight amount of it? Since they're so connected to it and they barely seem to have discernable body parts outside eyes and their shells usually

[edgy nebula]

ngl i didnt realize bell hermit had legs at all

[whole juniper]

I personally don’t think so

[toxic mulch]

[stuck berry]

maybe their exploits with the void affected how they look?

[toxic mulch]

Perhaps

[whole juniper]

Some snail shamans had no clue the abyss existed or atleast had never been there so they couldn’t really be void

[eternal sigil]

• the Act 3 symbol (on the splash screen for Act 3, and on Act 3 files without completion data) is a spiral
• snail shamans obviously have very deep ties to the Abyss, and mention "spiral power"
• the Mask Makers have spiral eyes

[stuck berry]

they disappear after red memory so maybe their bodies either desintgrated or what

[whole juniper]

That doesn’t really confirm anything

[stuck berry]

maybe they ran out naked

[whole juniper]

It’s a draining spell

[toxic mulch]

They really dream no more'd the player

[edgy nebula]

the act 3 symbol is because youre getting quests from the snail shamans, with their spiral shells

and spiral power is because they have spiral shells, cause theyre snails

and The Vision is probably unrelated

[eternal sigil]

Yeah I think the Shamans are not strictly implied to be dead because if they were, their shells would be breakable

[whole juniper]

and they’d know what the abyss is

[eternal sigil]

Or at least that would make sense as a story element

[whole juniper]

ohhhh nvm

[stuck berry]

shaman streaking theory

[whole juniper]

Almost every dead thing has a damagable shell if it leaves a shell behind right

Atleast in hallownest

[eternal sigil]

the Mask Makers are definitely the odd link here, but it could well be that they instead match up with Mr Mushroom, who also has spiral eyes

and also of the style of "very wiggly spiral drawn in a thin line"

[whole juniper]

me when the vengeful spirit shaman says he’s never been to the abyss and can’t use the void spell

[eternal sigil]

bell hermit = ass jim theory

We never see them in the same room at once

[edgy nebula]

honestly a mister mushroom and mask maker theory is quite curious

[whole juniper]

You guys mention ass Jim but we are leaving out Jim’s ass

[edgy nebula]

maybe mister mushroom has some form of the vision

[stuck berry]

oh yeah he has spirals in both cutscenes

[eternal sigil]

it would make a lot of sense because it seems Mr. Mushroom can see outside of time and space

[muted lantern]

Do you think styx is into hornet or is he just like that

[eternal sigil]

in HK referencing things beyond the fourth wall, in Skong seemingly discussing the past and the future as though they are happening right now

[eternal sigil]

Yes

[muted lantern]

He wants to be a malewife so fucking bad

[stuck berry]

when are we going to understand shroom's speeches

[eternal sigil]

Hornet's strongest simp

[muted lantern]

do we know styxes gender?

[regal crow]

What’s it mean when you bind someone? What are you actually doing to them?

[muted lantern]

like is he confirmed a dude?

[eternal sigil]

I believe so

[muted lantern]

i like to think styx is the father of huntresses children

but fled so she wouldn't eat him

[whole juniper]

when hk: lifepilk comes out

[muted lantern]

hornet microdosing lifeblood in her nectar

[stuck berry]

i do want to fight mush at some point in this series

[obtuse rock]

Styx wears other bugs masks though

[whole juniper]

Something something able to access her ancestors memories/powers left behind

[muted lantern]

mr mushroom dies in one hit, then says "Change da world, my final message, goodbye"

[stuck berry]

oh, excuse me

[regal crow]

Ah

[muted lantern]

he seems to be the same species as huntress given his size

[toxic mulch]

No more to be continued

[obtuse rock]

He has a collection above his nest, and there's a needolin dialogue about Styx wearing the masks in the background

[whole juniper]

I wonder if there will actually be another hk game or the dlc will be the end

[muted lantern]

considering his simp mask is so similar to huntresses, i assume thats the one he wore when he was with her

[obtuse rock]

Silksoar up

[low obsidian]

Wait does Styx have a secret room

[stuck berry]

i still think styx is a shapeshifter and he molts which is why we see his old shell when he's skynx

[stuck berry]

silk soar starting from below him

[whole juniper]

There aren’t really any good characters from current story for us to play as in another kingdom and movement would be hard to make feel different

[muted lantern]

skynx's lines imply it was something that killed styx and is repeating his last words no?

[low obsidian]

Whatttt I swear I tried that several times

[eternal sigil]

me when we learn 2/3 void spells from old shamans in HK and a trio of shamans summon a gigantic void portal in skong

[whole juniper]

Boss ideas are pretty used
Up

[edgy nebula]

skynx > styx

[stuck berry]

lying

[muted lantern]

?

[stuck berry]

did you at least find the lugoli cannibal room

[low obsidian]

Yeah

[stuck berry]

it is cheaper to buy vegetables there

[eternal sigil]

the silkeaters are protection money

[low obsidian]

It is!

I'm sure Lugoli would have loved bread and water soup RIP king

[eternal sigil]

if we don't get to beat Skynx up for what he does to Styx in a future DLC I don't know what I'll do

[whole juniper]

Silk eaters were made to deal with gms dementia

[chilly compass]

who's styx? srry im really early game

[stuck berry]

don't come here it's chock full of spoilers

[whole juniper]

You probably shouldn’t spoil yourself

[chilly compass]

ok

[foggy fractal]

maybe wanna get out this channel, its all spoilers allowed here

[chilly compass]

bye

[low obsidian]

Now who tf is skynx

[whole juniper]

.

[edgy nebula]

hollup i drew him, i shall provide

oooone moment

[muted lantern]

it eats styx in the steel soul version, pretending to be him, since silkeaters are useless in steel soul he buys them

[low obsidian]

What the hell

[stuck berry]

he's like steel soul jinn in that he eats the one resource that is useless to you

[obtuse rock]

Or it's just another Styx persona

[eternal sigil]

if you want to know, he is ||an NPC that gives you items that recover your silk cocoon periodically. Kind of like Confessor Jiji except you get a consumable item every so often instead of buying services for currency whenever||

[muted lantern]

what if styx is the token straight cahracter in silksong

[edgy nebula]

voila

[eternal sigil]

plinney tho

[low obsidian]

I forgot Steel Soul would have its own quirks

[muted lantern]

bisexual

[low obsidian]

Styx is my guy I really grew attached to him and his strange fantasies

[eternal sigil]

honestly skong is very sparse about the relationships with its characters

[low obsidian]

No i'm a lesbian but i do like pathetic men

He's MY favorite pervert in Silksong

[foggy fractal]

nah I'm leaving this guy to not be saved

I'm not saving this guy !

[chilly compass]

#off-topic

[edgy nebula]

big fan of how skynx speaks in only stolen dialogue and he uses styx’s last words

[stuck berry]

notice how styx is attracted to hornet but he's the only one to not try to touch her inappropriately. lot to learn here

[edgy nebula]

yeah let me pull up his dialogue

[eternal sigil]

any Nosks found in the game should be terminated with extreme prejudice

[low obsidian]

Real af

[edgy nebula]

hee we go

hee we go

[tiny socket]

Considering Shakras dialogue, does hornet not look like a child? What is with all the weird bugs in pharloom

[edgy nebula]

skynx also has no needolin dialogue and instead emits a guttural roar when you use needolin

ooh cool

[eternal sigil]

getting to be a recurring theme innit

• Nuu
• Grindle
• Yarnaby
• that one dickweed flea (doesn't try to touch Hornet but pervs out in other ways)

[muted lantern]

shakra and snail shaman are the only 2 that confuse hornet with a child, one is and incredibly old snail shaman, and one is a woman from an isolated tribe of of giant amazonian women. presumably hornet has some level of babyface, but looks old enough to be allowed to drink at the halfway house

[tiny socket]

Perhaps

[muted lantern]

speaking of which what is kratt even looking at, hornet is fully clothed, is he stupid?

or does he just get off on watching people while they think they're alone

?

[stuck berry]

kratt's wild they should let you throw him into the abyss forever

[fathom hill]

I wonder, i can see him just taking anyone strong enough as his master

[muted lantern]

?

[fathom hill]

pan king 🏳️‍🌈

no cuz he is my boywife sorry

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/darkest-dungeon-affliction-irrational-gif-11838038135160624284

same

[fathom hill]

darkest dungeon is fire

I love the seeming reference with the judge craw guy

[muted lantern]

its gotta be a reference, the iron crowns are too on point

the court of craws wear the iron crown the darkest dungeon one cultists wear

minus the skull

[fathom hill]

the crowns

[muted lantern]

thats pretty dead on for some of the dd2 cultists too

[fathom hill]

yah yah its cool

I wondered why it looked familiar until someone here mentioned it lol

I need someone to decipher the heralds dialogue, im literally too dumb or unknowledgeable for that guy

[stuck berry]

it's weird and esoteric by design

[fathom hill]

yah but there was references to stuff (castlevania and previous tc games) in hk

So im guessing its the same this time, though a lot of these could also apply to things that happen in ss

[stuck berry]

i always wondered if you could line up any lines and form a coherent conversation

[fathom hill]

first one is abt hungry knight, the one with the "no.. not that one" is reference to castlevania

Ig the big headed ones that deciphered it last time are still on it

[low obsidian]

I didn't know what this guys deal was in HK before I went through his quest in Silksong but I thought it was interesting his apparent ramblings seemed to converge towards one topic as you went through? Did anyone else get that

Stuff about the past and history and such

[stuck berry]

the first two lines in 1 correspond to the pale king but i'm not entirely sure as to how the first two lines in 2 line up with GMS

[fathom hill]

stone shall break could be the weavers upgrades

[stuck berry]

he does!

[low obsidian]

(Points) He does!!! He does that!!!!!

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-hollow-knight-bell-beast-hornet-i-fucking-love-my-dog-gif-16253163473145257201

[fathom hill]

big dog

[stuck berry]

william looking for the mister mushroom photoshop files from when he was drawing hollow knight so he could reuse them in silksong/add new singing animations

[fathom hill]

lotta dogs in this game

[stuck berry]

https://tenor.com/view/soul-terry-searching-gif-20679312

[fathom hill]

like this is definitely a reference to something

But i cant quite grasp it, and thats with all the others

[stuck berry]

nature doesn't mean to hinder you it just does that, the second line explains itself, not sure about that third one

[muted lantern]

hes speaking to fay? perhaps

[stuck berry]

it's about mountain climbing so celeste reference maybe?

[stuck berry]

no this is from far fields

[fathom hill]

i also thought celeste but weird game to reference, unless tc decided to take a hit at it with the comparisons made

[muted lantern]

he can speak into other canons i think he can communicate long distance

[low obsidian]

I was thinking that too but i have celeste bias so lol

[stuck berry]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Mister_Mushroom_(Hollow_Knight)
https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Mister_Mushroom_(Silksong) if you guys want to analyze

[fathom hill]

The little left behind becoming a companion is kind of what turns me to it but idk

[muted lantern]

Have you added hornet is racist to the iceberg yet

[stuck berry]

the little left behind could be badeline who is seperated from her but then herself becomes a companion to madeline

[fathom hill]

yeahh

[stuck berry]

too jokey + i'm not working on it anymore

[fathom hill]

what why

[stuck berry]

got stuff to do, will update it when the dlcs come out

i fr spent 4 hours on a perfectly good sunday afternoon on discord and an iceberg editor that doesn't sound right

[fathom hill]

ohh that fine, though the dlc aint releasing for a while

probably

[stuck berry]

lifeblood came out 13 months after hollow knight

wait nvm

hidden dreams came out 4 months after hollow knight

[fathom hill]

is this true?

[stuck berry]

we only got 3 months left until DLC

[fathom hill]

Can only show the preview since the post was deleted, but did this happen in the beta patch or was in the base game

Is this an indication that could be big update before dlc? Or the dlc will be indeed about the healing of pharloom

[stuck berry]

beta patch so i'm told

[fathom hill]

Since that seems to be a theme with the changes

Apparently the choral tyrant guy is spitting water too no?

[stuck berry]

who

that's khann

[lucid fossil]

YES! there’s a chance it wasn’t new content though and TC just fixed a bug where it wasn’t showing

[fathom hill]

yahh it mixed with the skarr tribe lmao

im kind of sleepy ok leave me alon

[lucid fossil]

idk that’s what I think unless people can show new game files being added instead of edited

[fathom hill]

Ohh yeah could be that

Shame, Im really rooting for that act 4 fixing pharloom

in another life id guess

[stuck berry]

most dlc in hollow knight could be finished at any time as long as you had the items to reach it

sounds a bit reductive to sit the dlc behind the final boss

[molten parcel]

Omg it's coming together

[stuck berry]

guy who saw one twitter post

[molten parcel]

Yup

[fathom hill]

I kind of dig that theory though

I kind of dig anyones ideas honestly

[stuck berry]

the parallels between the knight and white lady vs zote and greyroot

[fathom hill]

considering how ss is all about parallels i kind of see it, but I also feel its one of these things that if you were to ask tc theyd say "its a funny idea"

so idk

[stuck berry]

of the former, one is a strong and silent knight who does good while the other is a root who creates life. of the latter one is a disgusting parasite who makes the player's life hell and the other is greyroot

[fathom hill]

the herald is referencing lace and hornet in reference to gms

act 4 confirmed!!!1!1

[edgy nebula]

mottled skarr would solo greyroot, lace, the last successors, and gms at the same time

[stuck berry]

last successors?

[molten parcel]

Didnt GMS kill his ahh

[edgy nebula]

the heart bosses

[fathom hill]

he didnt even survive to his own tribe bro

[edgy nebula]

twas a fluke

[fathom hill]

[manic pewter]

marm?

[stuck berry]

mottled skarr actually tripped on a vine offscreen while he was eating grapes and fell and choked to death

[edgy nebula]

yeah but grapes are the strongest entities in hk cause they kill dogs (like 100x the size of a bug)

[molten parcel]

Sad we didnt get hornet doppelganger

[edgy nebula]

skynx is close enough

[molten parcel]

Like a zote hornet version

[edgy nebula]

oh

[molten parcel]

Someone who looks very similar but isnt really connected

[stuck berry]

hornet's evil cousin tenroh

[hazy meadow]

hey silk songers

who made the citadel again

was it gsm or the weavers

[fathom hill]

Id say this is different cuz you know kickstarter they kind of had to, all that content was prolly originally planned but they had to release it first cuz money

now theyve got all the money they want, and people arent pestering them for silksong anymore

see yall in 15 years

[stuck berry]

not true silksong steel update out next spring

[quartz salmon]

the weavos

[fathom hill]

weavos

a weapon can also be a friend, so eager to follow her footsteps

[stuck berry]

i read "bottom of a well" and i thought undertale for some reason

[hazy meadow]

mister mushroom. whom art thou talking about

bottom of a well i thought of dirtmouth LOL

[stuck berry]

do we know any characters who are weapons and also friends/role models

[hazy meadow]

i mean

[stuck berry]

aigis?

[hazy meadow]

you could call the knight a weapon /j

actually not even /j .. /srs

[fathom hill]

Someone that is explicitly a weapon and a blade xenoblade? lol

[hazy meadow]

bro is an unstopable force

[fathom hill]

someone said that the thing abt the flowers telling stories is reference to undertale

[stuck berry]

no that's too vague

[fathom hill]

and communication being the heart of it could be sparing

[fathom hill]

/hj

i dont believe in tone indicators i wouldnt know tho

[fathom hill]

yeah like talking flowers is a very common imaginery in a lot of stuff

but we have the whispering blue flower thingies

what is a boast

[stuck berry]

not even he just says every flower has a story

[fathom hill]

could be either way imo

[hazy meadow]

it is GSM who is ordering hte hunting of weavers right

[stuck berry]

yeah

in the cradle you can see cages like the one that hornet was in detailing the journeys to get the last remaining descendants of the weavers

[spark valve]

and the envoy journal entry

Bugs like these crossed the caves to bring me to Pharloom. I cut down many before my capture. Then I had thought them minded and cunning. Now I see the singular will that haunts them all.

[hazy meadow]

okay question: who did hte whiteward stuff

[stuck berry]

the upperclassmen of pharloom

[hazy meadow]

and the turning into silkflies?

also them?

[fathom hill]

crossed the caves, didnt they go through blasted steps which is "the surface" by that point? underground surface discourse?

[quartz salmon]

theres no real surface in bugworld!!! just caves

[fathom hill]

too tiny for the real sun

[spark valve]

the weavers were probably doing that before conductors took power, probably even before the citadel given the presence of the flies in weavenests, but the conductors stepped it up as a way of expanding their robots

[craggy smelt]

it was carried out by Citadel higher-ups, though I feel like this and the silkfly thing must've had the influence of GSM
Whiteward experiments might've been the prelude to the Haunting, getting her silk into the shells of bugs before she could do it herself
and turning one creature into another creature, well, Silk can do that

[stuck berry]

it is said that the pilgrims who become haunted literally have silk in their bloodline

[hazy meadow]

the conductors as in... the guys up in high halls???

[mint stratus]

Has anyone been able to get the pinstress’s to comment on their dead sister in the putrified ducts?

[stuck berry]

remember the old dying man who gave you one of the melodies

[stuck berry]

she can't

[hazy meadow]

i dont think its confirmed that they're a pinstress?

just vague ties

[hazy meadow]

yeah ik, they did that??

[spark valve]

it all but is

[craggy smelt]

not that specifically
but I'm pretty sure she mentions her order died out after being betrayed by the Citadel
this would be another member of them

[craggy smelt]

they definitely are, they got the same type of house

[stuck berry]

same general look as well

[hazy meadow]

not me having to go thru the wiki to read all the lore bits

[stuck berry]

better than watching clickbait videos on it

[hazy meadow]

true

[fathom hill]

anything happens if you play the needolin there?

[hazy meadow]

i need mossbag to make a vid

[fathom hill]

we all do

[craggy smelt]

yeah, there's dialogue

Feared by all...
Revered by all...
Dear sisters...
Must we hide?

[hazy meadow]

im writing a media analysis/review on hollow knight as a series

so im having to go thru silksong lore

hk lore im already very familiar with

[stuck berry]

she was obviously referring to the female stilkin

[shadow shale]

I just realized Silksong actually made it much clearer why Deepnest wanted nothing to do with Hallownest. The Weavers would be weary of any pale being after having to flee Pharloom and would be skeptical of the pale king from the get go.

[lethal burrow]

what do the snail shaman lore tables mean

[craggy smelt]

and there's a fuckin' pinblade, confirmed times a billion

[fathom hill]

which ones

[craggy smelt]

spell recipes
some real 'wing of bat, eye of newt, shit

[stuck berry]

must be an insane relief to have a pale ruler fine with leaving them to their own devices

[stuck berry]

i for real thought they'd be hints to mister mushroom locations

[lethal burrow]

idk that harrah because queen before the pale wyrm showed up

[shadow shale]

Probably why Herrah eventually made an agreement with the pale king producing a child that could be free of the weavers curse

[hazy meadow]

wait so

[mint stratus]

She married the king of deepnest before he died

[hazy meadow]

are all the weavers dead and hornet is the last one™

[lethal burrow]

She did married the king of deepnest before he died yes

[hazy meadow]

or are more out there?

they didnt marry they just bonked

[lethal burrow]

none else that we know of

[fathom hill]

we dont know, weavers were in a lotta places and one can be seen in the first hk

[craggy smelt]

there could always be more out there
we don't know of any living ones
though there was that one in the first game, we never found out what happened to them

[hazy meadow]

afaik

[shadow shale]

No but they are scattered across the world and are impotent aka can’t produce children. Hornet is the only child of a weaver and is half god

[stuck berry]

presumably more descendants if the cages near gms's arena are anything to go by

[fathom hill]

But in pharloom yeah no one left except the ones we fight

[hazy meadow]

where does it say they're impotent

[shadow shale]

Reminder weavers are all female probably by design but because of that they can’t normally reproduce.

[hazy meadow]

also if they're impotent how did. hornet.

[craggy smelt]

weavers are like vessels at this point, we don't know of any still around, but there could always be more and they could turn up anywhere

[fathom hill]

secret interaction with eva

[spark valve]

they're not completely infertile they just have a hard time reproducing

[mint stratus]

There’s mention of more weaver offspring in the cradle

[shadow shale]

So not really impotent but no males means no breeding

[fathom hill]

Its a curse that apparently hornet shares, she may not be able to have offspring

[hazy meadow]

oh so they can only have. hybrid offspring

i snee...

[shadow shale]

That not offsprings that’s other signs of weavers for GMS to capture since they all fled to be hidden from her

[hazy meadow]

also question for clarification: herrah is a weaver right??

[mint stratus]

I think the issue is that all weavers are female so any offspring are half breeds

[spark valve]

weavers are said to have a 'curse' (in a figurative sense) that makes reproducing difficult but different weaver populations seem to have circumvented that

[stuck berry]

having the protagonist if your game be an infertile woman with many dead loves is crazy

[mint stratus]

Weaver in eighth part

[fathom hill]

Reproduction is said to be painful, so it could be that in only very specific circumstances, lets say a very powerful being willing for a favor..

[shadow shale]

Yes that wasn’t clear in hollow knight but silksong made it clear she must be weaver

[stuck berry]

yes, no we don't know why she looks like that

[hazy meadow]

THATS WHAT THEY MEAN BY IN EIGHT PART??

[stuck berry]

yeah it means their great grandmother was a weaver

[hazy meadow]

okay thank you. glad im not the only one

[fathom hill]

This game is really woke if you havent noticed

[craggy smelt]

she had a Weaver for a great-grandparent

[hazy meadow]

so. the weavers are limited. no new more ones will be made. and only hybrids left of their existance

[regal crow]

Is the parasite from the cursed child ending tied to the Black Thread? The cursed enemies in act 3 remind me a LOT of that endings

[stuck berry]

probably not

[hazy meadow]

til eventually no existance of them will be left

[craggy smelt]

no, it freaks out when you try to dive into the Void with it

[hazy meadow]

only whispers of memories and their history

[stuck berry]

it's very possible with the deaths of first sinner and widow there are no more pureblooded weavers left all mutts

but that's me speculating

[regal crow]

That’s a shame. The tentacle attacks enemies use looks like the parasite

[hazy meadow]

isnt first sinner alr dead???

[stuck berry]

uhh maybe i'm not sure

[hazy meadow]

okay can. someone clarify. are they like encased in stone or. whats going on there

[stuck berry]

fine with the death of widow no more pureblooded weavers

[craggy smelt]

that's a classic Void move, it's just two different things with tentacles

[hazy meadow]

ARE THEY DEAD AND ONLY WE CAN HEAR THEM???

EXPLAIN. SOMEONE EXPLAIN

[stuck berry]

hornet can bind their essences and gain their abilities

[fathom hill]

this the dialogue

[spark valve]

they're dead those structures are weaver tombs

[shadow shale]

The black thread is different GMS rage over Lace falling into the void imprints the void giving the void GMS silk abilities to lash out at Pharloom with. Quelling GMS rage by saving Lace being the only way to stop it.

[mint stratus]

I’m pretty sure they’re like super dead but I’m forgetting the specifics and if I’m misremembering

[hazy meadow]

also wait: is hornet. is half weaver. right

[spark valve]

yes

[hazy meadow]

which makes herrah is full weaver?

[fathom hill]

Eva herself was an attempt to overcome the curse, but clearly she wasnt as succesful or complete

[spark valve]

given that pk is 0% weaver yes

[hazy meadow]

again i will question: girl why do you look like that.

[stuck berry]

as we've established, again we don't know why she got fat

[hazy meadow]

anyway thank you chat im just

scrambling through my notes

i hope the next one answers why herrah is like that.

[spark valve]

they kind of changed her design in silksong anyways but the horns remain... what they are

[hazy meadow]

or a dlc.

[hazy meadow]

i think her design in silksong is not truly her

[stuck berry]

the common theory is that she changed appearance after birth given many real life bugs do that and it was a painful experience

[mint stratus]

Oh neat, that explains why grandmother silk was so interested in the descendants of weavers that did exist

[hazy meadow]

its what hornet can remember, hence why the face is all foggy

[lethal burrow]

HERE WE GO AGAIN

[craggy smelt]

changing herself to overcome the 'curse' is a pretty interesting theory
weavers are creatures born of great change after all

[hazy meadow]

again these are hornet's memories, and perhaps its too painful for her to fully remember her mom as she was

[fathom hill]

I mean she wanted to consume any weaver anyways so idk if there is any interest from her

[hazy meadow]

plus it has been, a hella long time since she's seen her

[craggy smelt]

wove herself into something different

[stuck berry]

why doesn't GMS just uplift the little spider enemies and make them her new kids, is she stupid

[hazy meadow]

the body presumably disappears after ghost kills a dreamer

[fathom hill]

But it explains a bit why Herrah was willing to go into a coma in turn of a child

[lethal burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/weekend-party-champagne-gif-18280013

[shadow shale]

I still wonder if Eva is related to the parasite her sillouhette which is the most we ever see is very root like. I know she’s an attempt at making a higher being to oppose GMS that went wrong

[stuck berry]

now that i think about it why didn't she do that, was she scared they'd also learn of their lowly origins and leave her again

she could just not call them divine

[hazy meadow]

do you think hornet also cant have kids bc of the weaver stuff