sk-lore

[twin dragon]

So she doesn't get shipped in to gms

[terse warren]

Deepnest is like

Actually good though

[brisk finch]

I also like ducts 😄

[twin dragon]

Even though her dumb ass doesn't realize she's gonna slurp up hornet like a noodle

[brisk finch]

They both have their qualities

[abstract rivet]

I went into act 3 with 47% comp lmao

[twin dragon]

It's cool but boring as shit

[teal drift]

Imo ducts is worst area in the game by far, made worse by the fact that its probably the last area many players find.

[scenic stirrup]

I wonder what prime phantom would look like. She'd be like lace right? but her threads would be white?

[flint wadi]

disagree deepnest keeps me on my toes even 10 replays in

[silk dirge]

yeah

[twin dragon]

It exists solely for fleatopia

Ducts should've been bilewater

[abstract rivet]

deepnest is peaceful if you closre the music

[charred nimbus]

Worst area in the game is Sands of karak

[flint wadi]

its a really well designed location my only wish is that it had a fitting climax and not a fakeout

[terse warren]

Putrified is like actually just objectively bad

5 rooms, same as Bilewater, annoying enemies

The only saving grace is Flea Festival which happens in the only part of it that doesn't look like the rest of Ducts

[teal drift]

its also just 3 big rooms that are identical and the most annoying non-engaging enemies in the game

[twin dragon]

CHAT

[flint wadi]

karak hate is fake

[teal drift]

Sands of Karak is undercooked but the platforming is fun as hell. Its biggest crime is not being bigger.

[terse warren]

@ mods can we get a ban

[flint wadi]

go hate on ducts

[brisk finch]

I'd say it's mainly given a different name so it's a bit clearer that there's more going on, but I don't see any harm in Ducts having that distinction from Bilewater

[silk dirge]

karak hate is wild

[twin dragon]

First game had fuck canyon and ancient assin

[sinful nimbus]

I fw Karak

[brisk finch]

Like, whether Bilewater is 5 rooms bigger or not doesn't seem to matte to me?

[dapper willow]

what I'm hoping for is that team cherry will look at the criticisms and decide to act on them for the better

[versed spruce]

Karak is pretty fun ngl

[fallen berry]

I think you’ve misunderstood my point. I’m not saying combat ability itself proves anything; I’m noting that Phantom shows ONLY combat characteristics with none of the tools, equipment, or labor activities that define the underworld maintainers. That’s a meaningful difference. If she’s meant to be a maintainer, her role must be fundamentally different from theirs.

I’ve conducted some additional research, and there is clear evidence that my concept of her role was incorrect: her journal entry states explicitly that she was tasked to attend to the Citadel’s exhaust needs. Due to this evidence, I’ll resign the belief that her role is strictly protective and combative. I do, however, maintain that the nature of her work is distinct from that executed by those confined to the adjacent region, and her placement directly in front of a secret backdoor to the citadel seems too intentional for her combative prowess to not have been a critical feature of her practical role (within the eyes of the entity responsible for her placement).

[sinful nimbus]

Once you get over the sting of coral highlands being scrapped its quite enjoyable

[flint wadi]

it literally goes as bad as ducts using the same tiles 🥹

[terse warren]

At least Fog Canyon looked pretty

[twin dragon]

YOU FINALLY DROPPED THE TEXT

[silk dirge]

let go of the past type shit

[teal drift]

I miss the 2 damage sandworms. That shit made Karak so much better >>>>

[twin dragon]

Cancer ass area

[scenic stirrup]

Sands of karak had the one area where it looks like itd be prime for dlc bait. Yknow the one with the buildings it has like elevated platforms that could be broken into walls and shit. I hope we get the cut areas with it

[teal drift]

honestly fog canmon >>>

[fallen berry]

Yeah, I went through several drafts, and conducted some external research

[teal drift]

I think some form of elaboration on Sands of Karak is my main desire for DLC

[silk dirge]

i feel like karak hits close to home bc dried ocean is a bunch of national parks ive been to that i like

[terse warren]

Honestly Ducts is actually straight up the worst area in both games

[charred nimbus]

I also like Bilewater and this is legit not ragebait

[twin dragon]

Eh, i'd assume she keeps doing that due to her basically finding zero purpose in life, and maybe to stop pilgrims from slippin in

[brisk finch]

Genuinely, why does it matter if two neighboring areas resemble each other when one is incredibly small but has a different attraction?

[silk dirge]

sands of karak is literally like capitol reef or whatever its called

[twin dragon]

Or the fact that she can outlive most workers too

[flint wadi]

its prime disappointment imo, they could just have bilewater extend up with a sidearea label similar to wisp thicket

[versed spruce]

I hope so. I've encountered a few bugs in act 3 like seth dissapearing all of a sudden in ACT 3 mid-fight when I tried to parry or when I get hit mid-heal by him

[terse warren]

I'd rather a thousand Resting Grounds than a single Putrified Ducts

[teal drift]

a small area with one attraction that's not even related to its theme is the worst area in the game. Thats our main criticism

[twin dragon]

phantoms are projections of her will expelled as waste, just like her life is going away while she works her ass off

[brisk finch]

They could've, but they may have given Ducts a new name for either lore reasons or to make Fleatopia's location easier to remember. Either way, it's not like it cost anything. There wasn;t a limit on the amount of areas

[sinful nimbus]

Ducts basically is a resting grounds

[flint wadi]

i wanted a salt lake locale that is teased at the farmost east of bilewater

[brisk finch]

I also just don't think either traversel, theming or soundtrack is bad there but

[teal drift]

Resting Grounds is elite compared to ducts, its central attractions actually are related to its aesthetics.

[flint wadi]

dont disrespect my goat like that

[twin dragon]

only saving grace of resting grounds is seer

[flint wadi]

please

[twin dragon]

Otherwise no reason to be its own thing

[sinful nimbus]

They should rename barnacle bay to Salt Lake City

[silk dirge]

i wish the bellway just went to pale lake

[terse warren]

At least Grounds looked somewhat different from other areas

[silk dirge]

real

[twin dragon]

city of tears without the rain holy shit

[silk dirge]

or "san francisco bay area"

[sinful nimbus]

RG looks nothing like COT

[terse warren]

They should rename it to Miami and have Lomm be the Barnacle Bay Butcher

[gentle aspen]

Sting Shards
Pimpillo
Delver’s Drill
Rosary Cannon
Pollip Pouch
Weathered Mask
Weavelight
Sawtooth Circlet
Longclaw
Sling something

[sinful nimbus]

Beyond all of HK being disgusting dreary blue caverns anyway

[twin dragon]

prime subsection material

[gentle aspen]

Go buy stuff out from npcs

And explore greymoor hunter’s march bilewater and weavenest alta

[twin dragon]

Also crystal peak feels kind of empty, just as bilewater

[charred nimbus]

Ancient Basin was my favorite HK area, i just vibe there

[terse warren]

Crystal Peaks is Peak

[twin dragon]

Crystal peak was basically made so you can ooga booga place your eyes on big shiny crystals

[sinful nimbus]

I like basin

[terse warren]

And so is Bilewater

[flint wadi]

thrice redundant themeing that basically becomes grating by when you reach ducts, it doesnt innovate on the swamp theme whatsoever either

there is no soundtrack

idk what do you mean by traversal, but theres not much to be had there for a 2 corridor room with genuinely nothing but misery in it

[twin dragon]

Peakwater

[sinful nimbus]

Crystal Peak is awful

[twin dragon]

Bum

[charred nimbus]

I couldn't agree more, Bilewater is such a good area

[twin dragon]

I love crystal peaks but i'd like some more interesting lore tbf

[silk dirge]

im a big crystal peak fan

[flint wadi]

left side of pharloom also has a persistent motif (desert) but its broken up with mount fay at the top of it

[twin dragon]

it's just kinda there

[teal drift]

I think the only HK area that I found even slightly dissapointing was deepnest. It was always more tedious to me than anything else.

[flint wadi]

why cant right side have the same palette cleanser

[silk dirge]

i never hate crystal cave areas

[dapper willow]

Hollow knight was much denser compared to silksong
Mabe they will add new rooms to give that feel to silksong as well, at least at certain areas

[brisk finch]

You reach them at very different times tho, generally. There was like 20 hours between Bilewater and Ducts for me. There is a soundtrack??
Misery??

[silk dirge]

theyre just goated

[flint wadi]

L take

[twin dragon]

Deserts can be freezing too

[sinful nimbus]

Annoying enemies and bland visuals

[twin dragon]

Mt fay is devoud of basically most fauna

[silk dirge]

isnt that literally like antarctica

[twin dragon]

Exactly

[terse warren]

Mount Fay clearly isn't a desert though

[teal drift]

I mean Bilewater leads directly into the teaser area of ducts

[brisk finch]

Even sand desserts at night

[twin dragon]

Mt fay is unironically the area with least fauna or flora variety

[dapper willow]

a transition area between the two would be so cool
Something like sheer cliffs, with jagged stone and such

[silk dirge]

i feel like mount fay is like rain shadow effect but silksong

[flint wadi]

skill issue and eye issue

[brisk finch]

Not every area needs to hit the same beats. Mount Fay genuinely doesn't need more than it has, as an example

[teal drift]

Also the thing about Sinner's Road --> Bilewater that makes it so funny is that Bilewater takes everything that made Sinner's road hard and adds uberhell elements into it. Bilewater --> Ducts is if anything easier than Ducts.

[terse warren]

5 missed calls from Weavenest Atla

[charred nimbus]

If you consider that the definition of a desert is the abcense of rain and things like that, we could say every region of SIlksong and Hollow knight is a desert...

[silk dirge]

then again the geography of mt fay and the desert areas doesnt work out that way

[dapper willow]

honestly yeah
Its good as it is

[teal drift]

Weavenest atla is more of a lore aura farming area than an actual coherent entity.

[flint wadi]

where : )

[twin dragon]

it has parts of ze marrow and moss grotto soo

[brisk finch]

Were you playing with music off?

[flint wadi]

its ambience

its not even its own track

[fallen berry]

Her projection of the mist illusion, coupled with her laborious conjuring of the spectral defenders populating it, also transcends the scope of mere maintenance.

Also, maintainers of the Underworks are clearly equipped primarily to effect maintenance: they are seen with tools and wearable equipment clearly intended for labor. They have a possibility for combat, but they also present an immense degree of equipment for, and engagement in, their principal designated purposes. Phantom does not obviously present these traits. The class of her labor seems distinct from that of those bound to the Underworks.

[twin dragon]

some things are more deserty than others

[charred nimbus]

Weavenest atla has plenty of fauna

On the left side of it

[terse warren]

Stolen from Moss Grotto

[flint wadi]

ducts hits the exact same ones as bilewater but way weaker

[teal drift]

Weavenest Atla just drinks the dregs of moss grotto which already was mid

[twin dragon]

Phantom doesn't need much to operate an organ soo

[brisk finch]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already (lots of text) but the way the heat vents stop working fully after Phantom's death leads me to think she was actively cleansing those spaces, as opposed to them all just being passive swooshes

[twin dragon]

And uh im not sure phantoms are controlled by phantom

[brisk finch]

Ducts is a connecting area that leads into the Old Bilewater from Before It Was Bilewater

[charred nimbus]

They are controlled by who then?

[twin dragon]

She stops expelling waste that's it

[abstract rivet]

team cherry can you please add dreamgate to this game

[fallen berry]

Again, I do believe she plays an instrumental, solitary role in the organ’s operation, but she also dedicates nontrivial effort to its protection.

[silk dirge]

thats beastling call

[abstract rivet]

yeah that only leads you to bellways though

[twin dragon]

I don't think she cares nearly as much since she wants to die

[charred nimbus]

that's even better then dream gate

[fallen berry]

I see

[brisk finch]

It says "the will of another" and stops when she dies, I've interpreted as her ability, not GMS

[twin dragon]

If she'd fight someone, she's fight someone strong

[whole holly]

what is name of ladybug in silksong?

[flint wadi]

no elaboration on what causes the waters to stagnate
no unique tiles to differentiate it whatsoever
no need in this "connecting area" to begin with, it doesnt elaborate on why bilewater and sinners road are the way they are, its the ultimate nothingburger

[twin dragon]

They're it's own thing

[brisk finch]

Loddie

[flint wadi]

also no ost :) (not every area has to have it but for ducts which is already entirely repetitive its a nail in the coffin)

[obsidian silo]

can anyone explain to me why bilewater has that soundtrack that like doesnt really fit

[twin dragon]

yeah no shit? gms has nothing to do with them pretty sure

[brisk finch]

The Citadel did, hence Groal's anger

[brisk finch]

That was the alternative answer last time this came up

[twin dragon]

why

[brisk finch]

If not Phantom, it must be GMS

[willow epoch]

whats up with the conductor mizello surgery phonograph..

[brisk finch]

Who else is out there controlling mass silk?

[twin dragon]

I'd say those phantoms are basically her will to live, fading away

[willow epoch]

...the weavers? could be wrong lol

[brisk finch]

It appears the conductors were using silk to extend their own lives as well as the lives of others (to work), and this was the final surgery on Mizello.
It killed him, and his body because the basis for the Unraveled

[brisk finch]

The Weavers? In Silksong?

And they stop when Phantom dies for reasons?

[willow epoch]

im talking out of my butt

[flint wadi]

i know that, but theres no environmental story telling going on in ducts to justify its existence

[brisk finch]

Fair XD

[fallen berry]

This actually implies that her immense protective efforts are dictated by those who put her there. If she has not innate motivation to protect this region, while still dedicating immense effort to its protection, then there must be some external force demanding her attendance to its protection.

[twin dragon]

Who says she dedicates immense efforts to protect the citadel

She's just there

We don't know what or who she killed before

[obsidian silo]

could u say that the knight hugs hornet in the true ending? because i got spoiled that before i even got to act 2 and i just wanna think that i didnt get spoiled

[twin dragon]

We only know she wants to die

[plain ruin]

It’s absolutely fire, Pill and Tipp love listening to the unimaginably painful and artificial extending of a bugs life

[brisk finch]

Are you talking about the Godhome endings? This is the Silksong channel

[flint wadi]

i think the first thing they should tackle (besides bossrush if they wont go for godmaster-esque approach) is giving right side a little more vareity, at least giving us pharloom bay

[fallen berry]

I was referring to the protection of the Organ (stated in my first message). I later began generalizing her role slightly to encompass the secret entrance, but I’m mainly referring to the organ

[obsidian silo]

no im talking about the act 3 ending

[teal drift]

guys what would the knight's voice sound like if it had one

[brisk finch]

THen you haven;t been spoiled. Quickly, leave!

[willow epoch]

we got medical malpractice in silksong 🔥

[obsidian silo]

nah i finished the game and ive seen the cutscene and everything

[fallen berry]

My initial message requested information regarding why the organ was so instrumental, and why its protection was so vital

[brisk finch]

Oh lol XD

[teal drift]

I think they need to add bossrush ASAP. I think that's one of the most content rich things in HK and I miss it so much in Skong.

[obsidian silo]

is the knight the void entity though?

[brisk finch]

My personal take is that they're waiting for the dlc

[teal drift]

I think so too, but I hope its the first DLC

[brisk finch]

If you're unsure, I recommend rewatching the Embrace the Void and/or Delicate Flower endings for HK

[twin dragon]

Meh, the mist is a side effect of expelled waste, and the ghosts seem to be their own thing

[obsidian silo]

well hes a part of it but why would he really be it and control it

[heavy gyro]

It'll probably be the last dlc since the other dlc bosses have to be in the pantheon equivalent and it'd be weird to retroactively add them later

[brisk finch]

On that page if you scroll up "Not a bug but a projection of another's will in smog and Silk. "

[twin dragon]

yeah

[brisk finch]

Ghost/The Knight/it becomes the void given focus/shade lord in those endings

[teal drift]

I wonder if they'll just add another godseeker who does the same thing or if they'll come up with a new justification. I don't think they'd do the same thing twice, but Godseekers were such a convenient narrative framing device.

[brisk finch]

So not a side effect, is my take

[obsidian silo]

so the shade lord practically saves hornet in true ending right?

[twin dragon]

The mist as a whole i meant

I dont think phantom specifically created the mist

[brisk finch]

I don't think Godseekers would be impossible (and I wouldn't mind), but they seem like the kind to want something new

[fallen berry]

It’s clearly stated that the wisps are conjured by someone else (phantom)

[brisk finch]

Yes, that's Ghost coming to its big sister's rescue

[brisk finch]

It dies with her, which is why I assume she did, to an extent

[twin dragon]

Nobody's operating the organ sooo

[fallen berry]

The mist is a feature of her actions, clearly

[brisk finch]

At least some waste is still being expelled because not all the vents turn off

[twin dragon]

just because it's a projection doesn't mean she voluntarily created them

[brisk finch]

But no more mist exists

[twin dragon]

It's waste

[obsidian silo]

so are the other vessels like a part of void or what are they because like what do they do in this picture

[brisk finch]

Yes, you can see them float around in the abyss even just usually, and you see them return there more explicitely in the Dream No More ending

[twin dragon]

Though the wraiths might be she not wanting anyone near her

But i don't think it was to protect the organ either way

[chilly gyro]

Dose the existence of the Feyforn imply the existence of other non bug like things? Because it’s literally just a fancy dove the size of a house.

[twin dragon]

And she wants to die sooo

[brisk finch]

I wonder what the Mist is drawing on lol
Like, location wise
Are the platforms with traps based on some real locale?

[twin dragon]

It's part of sinner's road when it clears soo

[silk dirge]

fayforn is a bug

[brisk finch]

It's interesting that the whole area disappears, instead of leaving behind a simplified non looping version

[brisk finch]

True, but I feel like some of the layouts don't even match that
More... Greymoory?

[twin dragon]

Sinner's road is part of greymoor technically so ig

And it might be perception

[chilly gyro]

In HK, all the shades joined together to from the Shade Lord. Due to all of them being born from void, they would all logically be part of it, with ghost being the main commander due to it being the god/embodyment of it.

[brisk finch]

This too
I guess you could say Shade Lord is the Knight/Ghost, but it's also all the other shades

[fallen berry]

She is still expending additional energy in their generation. The implementation of these protective measures is clearly intentional. My original question was seeking information about the motivation of such a labored obfuscation and protection effort

[obsidian silo]

and are there multiple beings in the void? because we saw void tendrils attacking hornet while the other part of the void. the void entitity killed those tendrils to save her

[brisk finch]

The whole family minus The Hollow Knight shows up to help Hornet
(Which makes sense with the Godhome endings, THK survives those)

[obsidian quail]

sigh

🫩

[twin dragon]

Keyword on anguished

[brisk finch]

The void is wild and while the Shade Lord entity appears to control parts of it, it's clearly not the sole source of will to do anything

[twin dragon]

She doesn't seem very happy spawning these

[teal drift]

hopes for boss DLC:

1. Groal the Greater with Howling Wraths and Soul Diving
2. An actually hard version of fourth chorus.
3. Pinstress + Seamstress fight
4. Prime Lugioli fight.
5. Actually difficult Gurr fight
6. Double enraged conchfly fight

[obsidian quail]

there should have been no void in silksong

[foggy fractal]

Groal The Humble

[chilly gyro]

I feel like Knight/Ghost is the main voice and driving will, while all the others are more like secondary opinions or even servants

[brisk finch]

I feel the same way, but I suppose that technically that hasn't been confirmed

[twin dragon]

Meh, the organ might be important to the citadel in some way, but i don't think phantom cares enough to do allat

[brisk finch]

But yes, I read it as Ghost+ the others, not all of them equally

[twin dragon]

The knight is basically an authority figure

[fallen berry]

And the underworks workers don’t seem happy to carry out their explicit responsibilities.

[brisk finch]

Ghost had the largest journey and thus the most personal development to know how to want things

[whole holly]

i agree, making void universal was kinda meh

[twin dragon]

You might be onto something yeah

[chilly gyro]

Thematically it actually makes sense. It’s called the void below all things, so it goes to reason that you could find it anyway if you dig deep enough.

[brisk finch]

I actually really like that the void is just always there

[twin dragon]

Though who would phantom fear her being supervised

if she seems to want to die

[teal drift]

Wait fuck. Gourmand X Mergwin fight.

[obsidian quail]

it wasn’t called that till silksong

pretty sure

[twin dragon]

The abyss

You can guess from there where it can be located

[teal drift]

The void has to be included because it is violence and destruction incarnate. In order to cut the threads of oppression from higher powers and become your own person, you will inevitably use void against those powers.

[obsidian quail]

what

[brisk finch]

We always knew the abyss was much larger than the shore we saw in HK, and I'm personally happy with the lore expansion

[twin dragon]

What the region is called in hk

[teal drift]

The whole idea of breaking free from higher powers in HK and Skong is very tied to the void. It just also has dangers of its own.

[chilly gyro]

Ok so you’re actually right, I admit. But void being the only way to permanently kill a god makes sense due to it being used similarly before

[twin dragon]

act 3 as a whole seems to show the consequences of our actions

That is why i like it so much actually

[brisk finch]

HK and Skong are both about the push and pull of multiple forces on these normal bugs

Act 3 feels like DLC included at launch, but I don't think it's a bad thing

[twin dragon]

In HK you seem to blast through everything, barely anyone gives a fuck or few things change

[teal drift]

Yeah, embracing the void to defeat oppressive gods has consequences in the same way embracing violent rebellion has consequences.

[obsidian quail]

nothing said abyss was below everything until Silk

[twin dragon]

The below everything part is likely a metaphor

[teal drift]

I think Void is obviously one of the primal forces of nature in HK

[brisk finch]

Hey almost like they called one fo their endings Embrace the Void and it showed possible negative consequences 😄

[chilly gyro]

We really need a narative where we get to see what a “normal” civilization looks like in the HK verse.

[twin dragon]

Tbf i felt like mt fay is more dlc ish

It genuinely doesn't fit

[teal drift]

Void, Dreams, and Higher/Pale beings are implied to be universal phenomena and forces of nature in HK, and this is confirmed in Skong.

[brisk finch]

It's never happening, but I kind of want the sibling trilogy to finish with the hollow knight just vibing
No special connection to whatever place, cause it's only tied to hallownest
Just a normal, huge, adventurer

[whole holly]

DLC included at launch yet no Steel Assasin Sharpe we saw in trailers

[twin dragon]

Hallownest was pretty standart

[heavy gyro]

Tbf embrace the void has nothing to do with the consequences of hornets actions

[brisk finch]

Backer character, he's coming

[brisk finch]

No, it's the consequences of the Godseekers and Ghost

[whole holly]

i know, but still

[twin dragon]

It connects both games

[chilly gyro]

But we only get to see it after the Radiance throughly fucked it over

[teal drift]

I wonder what wasn't working about Steel Assassin Sharpe that they had to push him back again.

[twin dragon]

Yeah

[brisk finch]

The original outline was them hunting Hornet
I can't really imagine also dealing with that during any part of the game tbh

[whole holly]

maybe they want him to appear in City of Steel

[obsidian quail]

i’m saying it’s better if it is only an existence underneath hallownest

[teal drift]

yeah they may be saving him for a Steel city DLC

[whole holly]

yeah, Lace serves same purpose kind of

[brisk finch]

Right, without the active hunt and more connected to the story

[teal drift]

I have no clue when they're gonna fit that in, but it'll probably be like Grimm Troupe where its just a thing you can trigger somewhere and then they teleport themselves into the game

[twin dragon]

Meh, makes it feel like it is there ONLY to rival the radiance

[brisk finch]

It makes sense to rewrite that

[whole holly]

we are actively hunted by flies and taken to slab

[brisk finch]

This is still so interesting to me. TC, what did you assume the dlc would be when you wrote this? XD

[brisk finch]

Speak for yourself, they never got me
(lol)

[twin dragon]

Instead of an ancient evil that lurks down below

[whole holly]

well, still actively hunted

[twin dragon]

city of steel includes 6 sharpe fights trust

[brisk finch]

Actually, considering how Void Cult is labeled on the first map
And this mentions Hallownest's cursed history
The void stuff from this game may just be a carry over

[teal drift]

I don't really understand how you can play HK and think the void isn't a force of nature that has power in multiple parts of the world. Like I understand that isn't confirmed in HK, but void is just obviously a force of nature.

[obsidian quail]

it didn’t even bother radiance until TK showed up

[twin dragon]

She calls it ancient enemy sooo

[chilly gyro]

Since the Grimm troupe is canonically capable of traveling via extradimensional means(nightmare realm), we could possibly just have the Gimm Troupe show up without anything conflicting with the lore

[obsidian quail]

makes sense she’s light and it’s dark

i think it took away from the uniqueness to just throw it everywhere

[whole holly]

she may call our wyrm lineage ancient enemy

[teal drift]

so you thought that light and dark are forces of nature that only have power in HK?

[brisk finch]

Personaly, if they're going the GT route, I'd like to see our Grimmchild grown up into the next Grimm

[twin dragon]

But the light that exists only within mind, can physically bloat and explode stuff????

[obsidian quail]

why rehash void when they killed it the first time

[twin dragon]

Not very ancient though

[teal drift]

I wonder if they'll do Grimm stuff. I kinda think they've already done it and won't repeat it.

[twin dragon]

I still don't understand the infection

[brisk finch]

I'd say it's exploring more of it, not rehashing

[obsidian quail]

what did they explore

[brisk finch]

but if no grimm, how path of pain?

[whole holly]

why not?

[brisk finch]

(Looking at the dlc content lists like last week was really funny. I forgot when random things were introduced lol)

[twin dragon]

Pk came relatively recently into what is known as hallownerst pretty sure

[teal drift]

Ximmy are you irritated that skong includes soul magic too?

[whole holly]

what about pale wyrm

[twin dragon]

that is Pk

[brisk finch]

TC you acknowledged this exists
You know what the people want

[whole holly]

yeah, but if you include that in overall timeline

[obsidian quail]

nah cuz it was uniquely expressed through Silk

[chilly gyro]

I’d love if they include reference dialogue along the lines of “you look familiar. Oh yeah, I think I saw you when completing the ritual in a previous kingdom, nice to officially get to know you”

[brisk finch]

Ah,the princess who did not deign to give us a second look
or whatever, ay

[chilly gyro]

New cosmetics DLC confirmed???

[twin dragon]

The abyss, instead of shades, is in its primordial state

[brisk finch]

I would like something like that, but there's so many sprites

[whole holly]

i kind of want God's Glory and Steel City DLC rather than anything else

[twin dragon]

Plus we get creatures that actually live within the abyss

[brisk finch]

Ye we went beyond the Abyss Shore

[teal drift]

also the abyss is something they had to dig deep to find in Skong while in HK it was more integrated in to the kingdom. I think its a different enough expression.

[brisk finch]

We also possibly got more clues about Lifeblood and how the void may encourage its spread

[obsidian quail]

i just would have liked to see something fresh instead of more void again

[brisk finch]

The fresh bits were the other 2 acts

[chilly gyro]

One of the only downsides of loving such an intricately made game

[prime notch]

Tbh i wonder (if they do make it) how a godhome dlc of silksong is gonna be like cause i doubt they'd just copy and paste it

[obsidian quail]

i’m not sure what this mean

[silk dirge]

so a volcano in iceland should spew a different substance than a volcano in hawaii to be "more original"?

[brisk finch]

Basically all we see in HK was touched by PK at some point

[lethal burrow]

It means it's in a state before thousands of child corpses

[obsidian quail]

what

[brisk finch]

The enemies are his kids, the lighthouse was build by his people, etc

[silk dirge]

the world is full of substances that repeat everywhere

thats my point

[obsidian quail]

why are u using the real world for fantasy bug games

u don’t find volcanoes everywhere either

[brisk finch]

Some people like those kinds of connections and for them they're a feature, not a bug

[silk dirge]

i mean you want some sense of things making sense

[obsidian quail]

that’s great

[brisk finch]

Makes the world feel more consistent
You dig? Abyss

[silk dirge]

having void makes it feel like a more complete world

[obsidian quail]

i’m not telling anyone not to like it

i just wasn’t a big fan myself

[brisk finch]

You seem confused as to why others like it, tho

Or why TC would do it
Hence the explanations

[obsidian quail]

no u guys are more questioning my opinion on it

i initially just said i wasn’t a fan of void in SS

[brisk finch]

You're not "wrong" for not agreeing, but TC did also do completely fresh things in the rest of Skong, so the return of the Abyss is something nice for a lot of people

[obsidian quail]

that is great i haven’t once said that shouldn’t be the case

i can only give my opinion and i wasn’t a big fan, but i’m glad for others

[whole holly]

i would have preferred Essence in Silksong rather than Void because to me Essence felt more universal, it is just cheap to only access it in one kingdom

[silk dirge]

great

[brisk finch]

You asked, and I quote "why rehash the void when they killed it the first time"

[thorny python]

you'd want the radiance AGAIN ?!?!?

[brisk finch]

Does that not invite an explanation lol?

[whole holly]

what no, but there is no reason why Essence can't exist outside Radiance and Hallownest

[whole holly]

i believe there is Essence in pharloom we just can't see it in hornet's lens

[thorny python]

maybe it does exist but theres no moths around to show it to us

[whole holly]

yeah i believe that personally

[lethal burrow]

they could have made harrah a moth

[limpid summit]

The Needolin accesses the Dream Realm its just more Soul based than Essence based

[thorny python]

yeah and take the silk out of silksong :/

[limpid summit]

So we don’t see the Essence side

[brisk finch]

Ye the description of the dream nail is literally

Allows the wielder to cut through the veil between dreams and waking. Can be used to reveal hidden dreams or open gateways.
Needolin is more memory than dream based near the end, but it's basically the same description

[whole holly]

there could be another way of accessing Dream Realm, like how there is multiple weapons for attacking like pin, nail and needle, there could be multiple way of accessing Dream Realm

[brisk finch]

It's also, funnily enough, the cut memory dive mechanic from HK 😄

(The one where Ghost opens up Elder Bug's mind and we get to see baby Elder Bug)

[whole holly]

yeah but it takes Dreams out of Dream Realm it was my favourite mechanic

[lethal burrow]

no dreams, only memories!

[obsidian quail]

what

[brisk finch]

For me, the Needolin does all the things I enjoyed from the Dream Nail anyway
THh dialogue and getting me to the fast travel station

[brisk finch]

You asked a question, some people incl me answered it

[whole holly]

i wish it wasn't like that, makes Dreams seem like one and done thing and memories like way of reincorporating it in game, without connecting to beauty of essence

[lethal burrow]

you asked "why rehash the void when they killed it the first time"

[brisk finch]

I literally quoted your own words

[obsidian quail]

yeah i’m fine discussing it, someone was saying i didn’t like the fact others people like it and i never said that

[brisk finch]

The answer has to do with world building and how a lot of people considere it a nice thing after acts 1 and 2

[obsidian quail]

we’ve been talking about my opinion

but it’s not objectively right

[lethal burrow]

I thought we've been talking about the void

[brisk finch]

Who said that, because it sure wasn't me, who was talking to you

I wasn't the only one, but you also said that to me and I know I wasn't doing that

[thorny python]

can we get act 4 where we make pharloom pretty again

if I wanted to explore a wasteland I'd just go back to hollow knight :(

[whole holly]

yeah but it is not as rich, for example how is Godhome supposed to be incorporated into Memory?

[thorny python]

gaslighting

[foggy fractal]

I got the clovers to appear btw, I think you're right its based on map updates

[lethal burrow]

then they will have to make every enemy into an NPC with dialogue and that sounds like hell to make

[brisk finch]

I really do want a 3.5 to build up bellhart and the survivor's camp lol

[obsidian quail]

oh u said confused i misquoted, i thought u were implying i came in here asking why do u all like void in silksong

[whole holly]

i hope every area becomes Plasmified and Coral Forest is plasmified and resembles it's old state

[obsidian quail]

i just said i didn’t like it and we started talking about it

[brisk finch]

We need a big Tiny Additions patch like Lifeblood originally was

[obsidian quail]

but it’s fine just opinions

[thorny python]

doesn't that mean everything becomes blue

[brisk finch]

You also said this to me lol

When I definitely wasn't doing that

[thorny python]

hey what if act 3.5 is stardew valley and all we grow is everblooms so we can purify pharloom

[obsidian quail]

yeah that was in response to u saying i seem confused why others like it

[brisk finch]

Because you also asked that question

Yes, you did seem confused

I quoted that part

[obsidian quail]

how was i confused? i’ve only been sharing my opinion on it

[whole holly]

Sands of karak are red and gray, it lacks blue of Coral Forest, but with Plasmium it can be brought back again

[brisk finch]

I literally quoted you, I'm stopping my part in this convo here

[thorny python]

ooh good thinking

that means we can turn the lava in the marrow purple right

[whole holly]

Absolute Cinema

[brisk finch]

What's interesting to me about the coral areas is that every visual of them has been red/blue
but the cut coral pilgrim has orange coral growing out of them...

[thorny python]

is that the guy who's dead on the bench

[whole holly]

yup, we can make void blue too

[brisk finch]

The coral, whether in the past or present, prelease and post release, has always been red
Why is that guy orange

[thorny python]

summon the lifeblood creature

[thorny python]

oh

[brisk finch]

(This is a screenshot of the second image zoomed in, it's tiny)

[flint wadi]

and then tc introduces a nerdy yet sweet doctor/healer character who has a fascination with flying wildlife 😊

[thorny python]

that can be lace

[teal drift]

dreams and memory heavily overlap in HK/Skong lore

Barnaby is so sweet I love him. He got too much hate for his miracles.

[brisk finch]

Every time I see these I'm just taken aback at how violently these poor worms died
Lifeblood was already a bit icky in HK because of Implications but Skong went hard

(You can see this in game, but it's less visible)

[teal drift]

the worms refused the healthy elixir of plasmium and died for their arrogance. Nothing more to see.

[brisk finch]

Yarnaby may have killed some people but it was for their sake 😄

[teal drift]

I'm a plasmium truther, follower of the Great Xylotol

[flint wadi]

im pretty sure yarnaby is female

[brisk finch]

Plasmium is made of muckblood, spread the word

[teal drift]

it's not barnaby's fault that other bugs were too weak for the extricator

[brisk finch]

You mean Yarnaby, right?

[foggy fractal]

nah these bozos deserved it trust

[teal drift]

yes i typod

[flint wadi]

hornet addressees her as maam

[brisk finch]

Lifeblood is the most fascinating thing in this game from a development standpoint to me

like
it goes

[teal drift]

Tbh Yarnaby and Xylotol should end up together like Nailsmith and Sheo. Toxic straighturi

[obsidian quail]

oh that was more of a rhetorical statement that summarizes my opinion on it, i’ve heard the reasons people like it and i still say that even considering those reasons, it wasn’t an actual inquiry

but i am glad others like it

also lost lace was pretty cool

[lethal burrow]

so why do these guys seem to have a focusing crest?

[brisk finch]

1. Lifeblood in Hollow Knight
2. Lifeblood Spire on the first map
3. Cut alchemist quests in the files to make plasium using mossblood/muckblood (different quests use different terms, definitely from muck and moss creatures)
4. The Wormways alchemist quests now feature Lifeblood as the plasmium material

[flint wadi]

it says theyre infected but they didnt mutate
i think the worms that mutated faster likely just killed them

[quick thorn]

this is a Lost verdania enclosure. The citadel did try to preserve verdania!

[brisk finch]

It's growing through them tho

[flint wadi]

yeah and they failed

[teal drift]

I think it's not really rehashing if it's explored in an entirely different way. But there's not much point in debating it.

[brisk finch]

Like, what did TC actually plan

[flint wadi]

could be just stray lifeblood vines

[brisk finch]

because plasium=lifeblood was not the plan!

[flint wadi]

but idk

[quick thorn]

yeah, i did say try

[atomic dirge]

Do we know what the deal with the 3 mottled Skarrs is?

[teal drift]

My bet is they're just minorities among their people

[obsidian quail]

but i don’t think we got any new revelations beyond it being other places

hornet is pretty ignorant of void

[brisk finch]

I think they may be willing or forced outcasts, visibly marked

[teal drift]

I think seeing Void used to kill a god in a manner outside of the vessel plan is pretty big.

[obsidian quail]

i’d like an ancient civilization game that really dives into wtf it is

[whole holly]

Lifeblood Spire?

[brisk finch]

Right side

[obsidian quail]

if we’re gonna do more void content

[brisk finch]

Like, you could say that Lifeblood Spire became the wormways
But that doesn't explain the mossblood/muckblood alchemy quests

[flint wadi]

cant help but feel like they really dialed back on the "song" part of pharloom

[obsidian quail]

that didn’t tell us anything new since we knew it targets beings with soul

[flint wadi]

and its not about citadel renaming but just a hunch

[brisk finch]

They absolutely did

[whole holly]

maybe lifeblood spire is cutcontent that was supposed o be in Pharloom Bay

[teal drift]

I like that they realized the marrow and catacombs were a bit redundant lmao.

[brisk finch]

It's still Citadel of Song, but the bells and music are much less integral now

Still explained (nap nap mama), but less integral

[lethal burrow]

the red mottled skarr has dialogue that says
"For death... I give death...
Our mark is no curse...
We still hear it...
Strength... shall not fade..."

So

[lone folio]

I don't see it honestly

[whole holly]

Song Eater, Void Cult

[brisk finch]

Unlikely based on the maps

[lone folio]

They do remind me of the godseekers but thats because they share a color scheme and they look a bit similar

Though i know for a fact they aren't related at all

[foggy fractal]

my favourite area: Under The Lava 🗣️

[brisk finch]

I still wonder if Void Cult became the wisp stuff, the steel soul stuff or if it became the snal shamans

Or if it was used for multiple concepts there

[whole holly]

Snail Shamans or Wisps i think

[teal drift]

Why does vog charge you for the flea maps? Is she just an asshole?

[lone folio]

Wisp stuff as in wisp thicket?

Or something else?

[brisk finch]

the father of the flame cult, ay

[left rivet]

Ya and they smh actually have fire magic

... Somehow

[brisk finch]

Did they want to do more void stuff or did they want more culty stuff
What was the actual intent with that area, we may never know

[lethal burrow]

there firesprites are flaming silkflys

[brisk finch]

They clearly ended up doing both, but I always wonder about dev intentions XD

[left rivet]

Where did they get so many?

[brisk finch]

This is almost all the text on the wisps in the game

[left rivet]

Hmm

[brisk finch]

Or well, the cult
Incl. the wisps

[lethal burrow]

silk falls from the citadel to be catched and spun by those in the moor, yet the thicket is even closer to the citadel

[brisk finch]

There just isn't a lot. Also didn't see anything interesting in the file names in the sprite dump

Although there is a flame guy in greymoor proper in the announcement trailer...

[left rivet]

Just remember a silk fly= a bug's mind and soul turned into a butterfly from the whiteward experiment

[left rivet]

They're not dregs tho theyre used to create robots that have sentience

[left rivet]

Interesting

[whole holly]

i thought silkflies were lumaflies

[left rivet]

No

They're very different

[brisk finch]

"Bug of voice grown hoarse or shell fallen frail, you have been selected for duty most sacred.

Become our light, our guide in darkness, that others worthy may climb to join the holy song."

[left rivet]

It's revealed in whiteward one of the surgeries committed were on bug's that turned them into silkflies

[mystic fiber]

"Become our light" like literally 💀

they put people into lamps

[left rivet]

Yup. They then use the silkflies that still have the bug's mind and sentience

So Sammy u might be right

[brisk finch]

being lazy but the wiki quotes

Cogwork Choirbug Needolin dialogue: "...Am I...Who?..."

So yes, something remains

[lethal burrow]

what is going on with seer becoming a lumafly

[brisk finch]

In general, if you want a quick read, scroll down to the references: https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Silk_Flies

[left rivet]

Huh so then the silkfly loses its memory

[brisk finch]

(I'm gonna go so I don;t feel like checking the text dump lol)

[left rivet]

Ok bye

[brisk finch]

Fourth Chorus Needolin dialogue: "WE... ARE... ONE... WE... ARE... MANY... VOICES... TOGETHER..."

[left rivet]

Ppl think then that's 100s of silkflies commanding it together

[terse warren]

"think"

[brisk finch]

More than one for sure

[terse warren]

100s of silkflies escape its body when you kill it lol

[left rivet]

Ya 🙁

Poor silkflies

At least they can fly free

[foggy fractal]

think twice ? I don't even thinks

once

[terse warren]

andy doesn't need to think

andy just knows

[left rivet]

Lol mb

[atomic adder]

isnt the name gleamflies

iic that's what the shop says when you buy lights for your bellhart home

[flint wadi]

omg thats why theyre called chorus

[edgy barn]

Nice catch

[left rivet]

I think these are different things

[lethal burrow]

which

[mental vale]

I wonder what it says about Green Prince's Grief- that even when When using the Elegy of the Deep- we STILL can't see his other's half's true form.

(Accidentally replied to an unrelated message earlier)

[fathom hill]

Vanity is assumed from the journal

[lone folio]

I have Lil theory that one of those troupe scout bugs that set upp the lanterns got sacrificed to the father of flame and that's why they have so much fire stuff and red tents and ye

[atomic adder]

The lights, when u buy in shop I think it said they have gleamflies in them if I recall correctly

[twin dragon]

Silkflies are souls extracted by the soul syphon

Whiteward confirms this

[lethal burrow]

OK, but what about the big one though?

[mental vale]

It's listed a possibility in the journal- I don't personally buy it though

[lone folio]

No concrete evidence for this being the case but it's good enough until I find more wisp thicket lore

[nova pond]

This has probably already been brought up but numbers seem pretty significant. First Sinner, Second Sentinel, Fourth Chorus, Twelfth Architect. Even those poems that mention "at the nth toll".

[quick thorn]

more likely that it's a "sister faction" or a group of imitators

we know that the wisps are literal souls at least

[lone folio]

Very well could be

[nova pond]

Anyone know what's up with that? Thinking it could be something yo do with the hours of a clock considering that's also a motif, and clocks have a regular rhythm similar to songs

[quick thorn]

they are the father of flame equivalent to the silkflies that light lanterns and are made out of dead bugs in whiteward

[terse warren]

i mean for the bots it's more so that they're mass produced

and first sinner is because it's a sickass name

[left rivet]

Ya I mean for 2nd sentinel

[nova pond]

2 and 12 don't really suggest mass production lol but I guess they want to keep the names normal

[terse warren]

132nd architect seems kinda overkill

[left rivet]

Ya since 2nd is just the 2nd one out 4 different sentinel robot siblings

[left rivet]

Ya pharlook isn't THAT old

[terse warren]

Pharloom IS that old

older than Hallownest

[left rivet]

Rly?

[terse warren]

yeah

[left rivet]

Actually ya that makes sense the weavers are definitely older and more knowledgeable than the pale king was

[terse warren]

Weavers came from Pharloom (well technically the ones that fled were there before the citadel) and Pharloom has only recently been haunted

[terse warren]

Nah the Weavers know shit compared to PK

ok not literally but still kinda hard to compete against Foresight

[obsidian quail]

how does that say Pharloom is older than Hallownest

whoops

[left rivet]

Ya that goes to show how mean it is towards normal bugs

[terse warren]

i mean older as in lasted longer mb

[sinful nimbus]

slanderous

[left rivet]

Smh I feel like the weavers weren't the ones responsible for its scamming

Like they just wanted ppl to help prevent GMS from bursting out again

[terse warren]

they're the ones that put gms to sleep in the first place

they're like, the original scammers

[sinful nimbus]

They threw a dude in jail for revealing they weren't actually divine

[left rivet]

Cuz eventually after they left the conductors to rule which they used for their selfish purposes

[sinful nimbus]

Citadel is also built to put them in power according to Mask Maker

[left rivet]

True

[sinful nimbus]

Citadel Weavers are evil, Cindril Weavers are the real goats

[terse warren]

Weavers that ran away are also bitches

[left rivet]

Ya but they didn't make all those scam machines I think that was the regular bugs aka the conductors

[sinful nimbus]

What'd Herrah do 🥀

[terse warren]

Hallownest Weavers didn't have any problems indoctrinating a child

[terse warren]

She's an exception

[left rivet]

Ya

[sinful nimbus]

Possibly

Pious Isamor is a weaver scam machine though

[terse warren]

im still of the opinion the Chorus killed the last remaining weavers to take control of the citadel

[left rivet]

I'm saying the weavers were mean jerks, as petty as GMs but weren't the ones who caused it to deteriote into a giant gilded scam, since their original purpose was just power and preventing GMs

[terse warren]

Isamor was quite literally made by the Chorus tho

[sinful nimbus]

Huh

[left rivet]

Wait that could be actually real

[obsidian quail]

weavers imprisoning first sinner still makes no sense to me

[terse warren]

"Hear our voice... Let it... your own! Give... of yourself... for great Pharloom, for... first-children who bequeath it to us... for our salva... sure to come!"

"First-children who bequeath it to us"

[terse warren]

they were trying to be sneaky about that shit and sinner started giving em away trust

[sinful nimbus]

I mean its styled after a Pilgrim but its indoctrinating pilgrims into worshipping the weavers which makes me inclined to think its their creation

[terse warren]

Isamour is quite literally a propaganda machine

[sinful nimbus]

Oh it doesn't require money though does it

[obsidian quail]

weavers already knew they weren’t divine by then and first sinner went along with the plan and just woke up one day and decided to do what? tell bugs?

[terse warren]

still doesn't really fit with Pharloom already having been Bequeathed

[obsidian quail]

the timeline doesn’t make sense

[sinful nimbus]

Bequeathed to the pilgrims

[obsidian quail]

first sinner is implied to be the first to find out and we know weavers knew they weren’t divine pre citadel

[sinful nimbus]

That seems likely yes

[obsidian quail]

does that make sense to u

[sinful nimbus]

Or well it didn't have to go along with the plan

[terse warren]

I think it's more so the Chorus trying to hide their past atrocities and making themselves seem more holy as they were chosen by Weavers rather than having taken the city by force

[obsidian quail]

first sinner just randomly crashes out because of a revelation she already knew beforehand

the first one to know

[terse warren]

yeah meaning the Citadel has already been "given up" by the weavers lol

[obsidian quail]

and what does she gain by telling other bugs this, which we don’t even know happened that’s just a guess to fit the theory

[terse warren]

maybe it's like she couldn't hold the weight of the revelation any longer and eventually just crashed out

[sinful nimbus]

I see yeah

[sinful nimbus]

She's mad

[terse warren]

First Sinner actually just has anger issues

[sinful nimbus]

She's not doing it for a benefit she's literally just pissed

[obsidian quail]

why would she be pissed and crash out after the cause of her anger is sealed

randomly after the citadel is built and they have all the power

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers were still claiming themselves to be divine

[obsidian quail]

yeah that was a lie they all knew by then

[left rivet]

Wait so u have evidence I haven't completely beat the game yet I just read A LOT of spoilers

[sinful nimbus]

It'd be bad for the Citadel if that got out

If one of the divine children is going around telling people "Yeah guys its all a lie we're major frauds"

[obsidian quail]

so ur saying first sinner was angry at weaver propaganda

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[obsidian quail]

even though it completely benefits her atp because weavers can rule

hmmm

[sinful nimbus]

She "raged against the silken lie" which means she's pissed at GMS and the Weavers

[obsidian quail]

so who is the “Our” she speaks of

[left rivet]

O or at least angry at weavers for being so gullible/vain about their Divinity

[sinful nimbus]

Royal we situation or maybe there were others

[obsidian quail]

so weavers jumped and imprisoned her crazy ass

[terse warren]

Grindle uses royal we I think if they can Weavers can too

[terse warren]

she prefers truth to comfort

[left rivet]

Ya

[obsidian quail]

and that cage could have been one of the first things weavers built too

okay i’m seeing it

like they could have put her in there before they even fully built a functioning citadel

because she didn’t wanna go with the plan

and then built the slab around her later or something

hmm

but why would she work together with them to seal GMS

[kind steeple]

How do I consult the hunter journal here in discord again?

[obsidian quail]

or she did and then got jumped after?

[terse warren]

/journal

[fathom hill]

Pale king really was onto nothing with his eternal "first and last" kingdom thing

[terse warren]

hey he tried

[edgy barn]

Does this already work for silksong enemies?

[terse warren]

doesn't look like it

neither does /npc

[vale plover]

Where do you think the world of hollow knight is happening in real life

[fathom hill]

the walls

[vale plover]

Nah

[edgy barn]

Outer Space. Radiance is the size of the actual sun.

[kind steeple]

Pharloom is happening on my white cat fur

[fathom hill]

wash your cat man

[kind steeple]

Yeah I think he's needing it

Look atleast it isn't hallownest with dung defender

Wait we only have hk journal right?

[edgy barn]

Yup

[kind steeple]

Does hornet hate her dad?

[fathom hill]

Hate is a strong word, idk if she may hold some resentment though

[left rivet]

Maybe maybe not

She just thinks pale king was foolish to think void can do exactly their bidding

[fathom hill]

Also like she has seen first hand how destructive using the void for your bidding can be

[left rivet]

Yah

[left rivet]

the snails

[left rivet]

But the vessels didn't rebel or cause damage I think

[fathom hill]

Hornet does say foolish too when doing self critique so this may be it too lol since she blames herself for the destruction of pharloom by the void

[silver spire]

also theres taht vassal guy in steel soul

[left rivet]

Ya

True

[fathom hill]

I meant it as the snails yeah

[left rivet]

Ok

[fathom hill]

[terse warren]

mixed feelings

we also know that the Wingsmould example is silly because they work perfectly fine so I think Hornet is just a bit paranoid about the void

[charred nimbus]

Guys, does the game states if the creatures/dudes that Hornet binds to get crests are any important to the lore or even have at least a meaningful point to the lore or they're just to get cool crests?

[fathom hill]

funnily enough i think using the void for automatons is way more morally correct than whatever they did in pharloom

but yeah Hornet may see both as just foolish, like eventually both will end up wrong and destructive kind of ordeal

[charred nimbus]

Well, what the Pale king did with his children was not exatcly right, but when the thing is the moulds, we have no idea the exact origin of the void despite it being something of being born of bug's regrets, what they did in Pharloom was pure cruelty

[edgy nebula]

Crests are made similarly to charms

[toxic mulch]

Question for y'all,is the conductor that wrote pharlooms folly anywhere in the game or was it just a random name? I thought it would've been another monomon situation

[edgy nebula]

Theyre made from a bug’s essence and invisible yoke that they accumulate throughout a lifetime

[charred nimbus]

i'm pretty sure that's an ancient Conductor from a past era of Pharloom

[toxic mulch]

I see,just a little strange to name a character and have no info about them

[quartz flicker]

https://fxtwitter.com/MasterIsabelle9/status/1974371623609512359

Iz // 🍉 (@MasterIsabelle9)

Can I say that the second the Last Judge spoke I was on my knees

**💬 21 🔁 32 ❤️ 853 👁️ 8.1K **

FxTwitter · Oct 4, 2025, 7:10 AM

[fathom hill]

dlc obviously

[toxic mulch]

True

One of the dlcs HAS to be more memory sequences

[fathom hill]

least down bad silksong fan

[charred nimbus]

If the DLC indeed explores the past of Pharloom, there's a big chance we end up seeing Romino

[whole holly]

guys do you think Elder Hu belong's to Sharka's Tribe?

[charred nimbus]

Problaby

[fathom hill]

I can get behind it

[charred nimbus]

Elder hu is kinda of a bad fighter tho

He was problaby very ungraceful to the tribe

[toxic mulch]

Imagine he was banished for his absolutely atrocious fighting skills

[potent blaze]

Pancake slam

[proud harness]

It's a neat theory imo, so I'm all for it.

[fathom hill]

But i always envisioned shakras village as a gerudo village kind of ordeal so

The similarities are there though

[whole holly]

yeah but Traveler at least

[toxic mulch]

I wonder if the dlc will delve more into shakras tribe at all

[fathom hill]

Wasnt elder hu a backers oc though? did they (tc) make a village based on him

[terse warren]

Whenever people from Shakra's tribe go away they can't return so

[toxic mulch]

All the dream warriors were backer designed

[charred nimbus]

Shakra's master never learned cartography, their tribe values warriors more then they value exploration, exploration is more of a Shakra's thing

[fathom hill]

the journal says its on the borders of pharloom so could be

I always though she was from outside but it seems not

[feral inlet]

Shakra prob used the rosaries we gave her for shard bundles for more rings

[toxic mulch]

Really? I just remember that shakra claimed the tribe would call her masters death dishonorable

[whole holly]

yeah, Elder Hu was sage/healer, Sharka's tribe are warrior traveler, they aren't meant to return and they aren't meant to die from age

[edgy nebula]

Because she died in a peaceful place rather than in battle

[charred nimbus]

it's because she died of old age

[feral inlet]

They prob believe in death by combat vs dying of old age

[proud harness]

Honestly, with how she just leaves them on the floor? Yeah probably.

[feral inlet]

I use her rings as my second tool and they do run out quite quick

[proud harness]

I think that's the case? Not sure if Shakra said so or not.

[toxic mulch]

I also wanna know more about shakras backstory cuz she clearly isn't a fan of her birth mother

[feral inlet]

She alluded to it in the convo iirc at her masters body

Im not 100 percent sure tho

[charred nimbus]

She doesn't exactly states she doesn't like her mother, she just mentions that her master was more of a mother to her then her birth mom

[terse warren]

"Hornet: Your master has been found, Shakra. Your task in these lands is finished. Will you now return to your tribe?

Shakra: I shall not return, Hornet Wielding Needle... I cannot. To leave my tribe's nest-plains, that journey has only one direction.
This has always been our way, our long leaving, for those few who survive till age seeks to claim their shell, and those fewer who choose to send them on.
But these lands, Pharloom... My nest-plains I once saw so grand, now they become small. A place for birth, and growing, but a place too narrow to live a bug's life full."

[proud harness]

Yeap, she basically said ''My tribe would feel shame to think she died of old age, but I don't because it means there wasn't anyone strong enough to kill her''

[whole holly]

what does she mean by " The fiercest of my tribe, here she lies. I called her master, true, but she was mother just as much, more by far than the bug who bore me." who is bug who bore her, i just realized she meant birth mother, i thought she was saying we were boring her lol

[charred nimbus]

I wonder how exactly they reproduce then, they just hope to stumble on each other? and when they are going to lay eggs? they return then?

That's confusing

[toxic mulch]

Well it doesn't seem like her tribe was only 1 species so perhaps they just find other bugs like them on their travels?

Doesn't explain how the tribe gets new members tho

[charred nimbus]

Even if that's true, despite Shakra and her master having the same species design, i can't see how a community grows by never returning

[proud harness]

Adoption probably

[toxic mulch]

That could be true

[whole holly]

yeah, Shakra, her master and Elder Hu are all different except clothing

[toxic mulch]

They adopt bugs they deem worthy into the tribe and train them

[terse warren]

it doesn't sound like all of em leave, "those few who choose to send them on"

[toxic mulch]

Team cherry give us shakra memory sequence 🙏

[left dune]

yea and it kind of sounds like some of them never leave?

[charred nimbus]

Shakra's tribe is so confusing in logic now that i think about it

I'll need to wait to see what Mossbag thinks of it

[toxic mulch]

I can't wait for all the lore videos

[left dune]

its like a religion: when you leave you never come back (usually) and a lot of members stay forever and recruit new members.

[whole holly]

neither can i, it is october and i am losing it without clarification

[toxic mulch]

Silksong has so many religious themes

[kind steeple]

I think hornet just heavily hates the void
Also on the start of the entry saying "false fly" it felt very personal to me idk why

[terse warren]

i mean yeah she does

[whole holly]

she does clearly

[left dune]

Hornet hates the Knight then 😭

[kind steeple]

Sadly we sacrificed mossbag so

[toxic mulch]

A worthy sacrifice 😔

[sinful nimbus]

My goats washed

[proud harness]

Outside of the Vessels, there ain't anything really positive about the hodge podge soup of nothing to begin with.

[sinful nimbus]

TC when they have to make hornet evil and stupid because they're bored

[left dune]

My Hornet being racist, no way

[toxic mulch]

Hornet probably doesn't have a lot of love for PK

[proud harness]

Don't worry, we got the Dream Nail to ask further questions

[left dune]

and the needolin too

[proud harness]

She however does take on his tinkering tendencies with buzzsaws and other deadly trinkets

[charred nimbus]

Yep, he's actually in hell(Twitter) i've seen it

[sinful nimbus]

From "Only pity for your cursed kind" to "Their plight elicits no sympathy from me" 💔

[toxic mulch]

She still has some traits from her father,buzzshaw

[kind steeple]

That's where the doomed souls go

[proud harness]

That pun is awful and I'm stealing it

[toxic mulch]

I am disappointed she never says shaw in silksong

[left dune]

the knight being shaw theory has to be accurate

[charred nimbus]

Everyone is worried with the shaw, WHERE IS MY REGALE?

[potent blaze]

She says garama tho

[toxic mulch]

EDINO

[potent blaze]

Nah wheres adida

[toxic mulch]

Well now we have poshanka

[potent blaze]

And fa ri du la si manet

Do ni pwana vo ri met

[charred nimbus]

I always have Shakra's ring equipped and it's for the pure porpuse of taunting

[sinful nimbus]

Rosenda

[toxic mulch]

I also find her roars in beast bind mode hilarious

[potent blaze]

Worst crest in the game but i love the beast taunt

[cinder berry]

What exactly is the goal of the shamans in both games?

[charred nimbus]

I'm doing a normal ending playtru with Beast crest from start to finish and i didn't even use the taunting, even despite i know it's different

[toxic mulch]

Beast crest wouldn't be so bad if it's tool slots weren't so atrocious

[cedar skiff]

beast mode

[potent blaze]

Snail shaman in soul mound gives spells and lore on spells u get, snail shamans in silksong help u get the everbloom flower

[teal drift]

have no clue why they messed up beast crest's tools. Its already a massive hurdle to deal with the change in healing.

[toxic mulch]

The shamans in both games seem to be obsessed with void and soul magic

[charred nimbus]

i'm loving beast crest, i actually got used to pogoing with it after so many hours on this save using it from the start, it's actually so fun to use Beast crest

[cedar skiff]

wait did they nerf shaman crest

[teal drift]

Snail Shamans are ubermenshes that use the power of the world for their own ends instead of being followers.

[cinder berry]

But why did they even summon the void to begin with in silksong?

[proud harness]

I also got a little theory regarding Hornet binding certain Weavers to her to gain skills. Since it seems unreasonable (to me at least) for Hornet to ''learn'' new Weaver techniques that she should have already known (Thread Storm and Clawline), I think she mearly regainst her memories and instincts as a Weaver.

I think as the Citadel bugs dragged Hornet in the cage through the Wastes, she lost some of her memories, and binding some of the Weavers restored them enough to relearn old skills, alongside some of the new ones (Rune Rage and Pale Nails for example)

[teal drift]

to kill god

[potent blaze]

Isnt there a hidden pale king looking crest in the game files? I wonder if it'll be available in the future

[charred nimbus]

Because Snail Shaman = Void fans

[toxic mulch]

To destroy GMS,their plans were foiled by lace being dragged down as well

[teal drift]

I think if protagonist 3 has beast crest style healing, I would be more than happy to learn it, but as of now it's too much of a hurdle for me to learn the lifesteal.

[cedar skiff]

hornet binding eva is possible through the power of homosexuality

[potent blaze]

They wanted to trap the gms, but they didnt know it used void since they had only used their souls to conjjre the snare

[proud harness]

Well, good luck killing a God another way without further consequences to yourself.

[teal drift]

nah i think the bros knew. Hornet didnt

[toxic mulch]

Don't they imply they also wanted the void to be used during the first talk in ruined chapel?

[charred nimbus]

Snail shamans knew they were using void

[teal drift]

yeah your options for killing a god in HK are either:

1. Become the god at the cost of some of your free will
2. Contain the god at the cost of your life
3. Dunk that thing in void.

[toxic mulch]

Void soup

My favorite flavor

[cinder berry]

Gms still doesn't die until she sacrifices herself to get you and lace out of the void

[proud harness]

The Caretaker does basically go ''Hey, don't look at us like that, surely you had your suspicion, considering who we are and such''

[charred nimbus]

Canonically i would be able to kill every god in Hollow knight world with only one attack (i would be the biggest of then)

[teal drift]

I think lifeblood god in the abyss was in a similar boat to GMS at some point.

[potent blaze]

What would void taste like

[teal drift]

Maybe a little less screwed since they werent as deep.

[cinder berry]

Nothing

[toxic mulch]

Would humans just naturally be higher beings in their world

[alpine cipher]

tbf she probably wouldve died if not for trying to protect lace

[teal drift]

have yall had sichuan peppers? I imagine void tastes like that but 20x stronger and it kills you.

[charred nimbus]

Better then higher beings

[potent blaze]

What if it was like black locorice or sum thatd be cool

[toxic mulch]

I always assumed it kinda acts like oil just based on appearance

[cinder berry]

True

[subtle plaza]

chilli pepper flakes

[proud harness]

Yes, but that's because Lace was dragged down there as well, to which GMS basically went ''...OH NO THAT'S MY CHILD I DON'T WANT HER TO DIE''

[potent blaze]

Dont let the patriots of hallownest find that out

[teal drift]

have you ever kicked up sand underwater and wondered how many ecosystems you just destroyed?

[toxic mulch]

Gms would've just died if lace wasn't down there but since she was GMS tried to stay alive

[teal drift]

wrong comment lol

[charred nimbus]

Vanilla icecream

[cedar skiff]

ironically hornet also dooms some of pharlooms ecosystems by getting the hearts

like shellwood and far fields are cooked

[proud harness]

Once GMS believed that Lace would be saved she went and let Hornet willingly use all of her Silk to yeet da needle

[potent blaze]

I feel like soul would taste like that instead

[cinder berry]

So the snail shamans are secretly Americans in disguise?

[teal drift]

Tbf I actually think only Far Fields is canonically cooked because of what Hornet did.

[charred nimbus]

Yes

[teal drift]

It's possible shellwood adapts, and the coral mfers been dead for al ong time.

[potent blaze]

Yea ants need a queen and now their queen is dead

[subtle plaza]

hornet doesnt give a shit abt the ecosystem of pharloom :P

[toxic mulch]

Is it implied hornet is the reason sands of karak happened?

[potent blaze]

And that coral shi regenerates too

[proud harness]

I mean, Shellwood seems to have already adapted tbh

[cedar skiff]

yeah iirc nothing is outright stated about shellwood unlike with ff, but its a likely consequence

[subtle plaza]

i don't think so? sands of karak was always like this

[teal drift]

yeah nyleth doesn't seem like shes doing all that much

[subtle plaza]

like, when hornet first enters pharloom

[teal drift]

how on earth could hornet make sands of karak when its been there since she first arrives

[silk dirge]

unless its like a green prince situation

[teal drift]

Hornet goes on a purple juice genocide in shellwood which i think will have consequences

[alpine cipher]

whatever happened there was never really implied i think, but it was likely related to the citadel destroying nearby areas

[charred nimbus]

I think this is a time travel butterfly effect theory, the fact that Hornet took the heart in the memory made Sands of karak happen

[teal drift]

Verdania was already dead all hornet did was kill its last Prince

[subtle plaza]

hornet also helps with the lifeblood quest which we see the consequences of in act 3

[toxic mulch]

Idk I thought maybe it was like her killing the krust king but then I remembered these are moreso dreams not time travel

[silk dirge]

honestly it would be really funny if team cherry just keeps making verdania grow more each minor patch eventually culminating in a dlc

[silk dirge]

its regrowing

[teal drift]

I dont think there's timetravel, more like using dreams to awaken and attune long gone powers.

[silk dirge]

they just added it this patch

[lethal burrow]

fr?

[cedar skiff]

and far fields detoriates with each patch if you had killed karmelita

[teal drift]

awwww so killing GP is good ❤️

[subtle plaza]

i don't think thats true? hornet is just entering memories, not literally going to the past

[charred nimbus]

Ye, i know

[silk dirge]

this was just added

[subtle plaza]

so the time travel theory isnt true

[cedar skiff]

beast mode

god damn that would be like insanely awesome if that was the case though

[lethal burrow]

ashen mist heart gaming

[toxic mulch]

Doomed yaoi 😔

[cedar skiff]

like if they actually locked in on this

[teal drift]

so ultimately hornet ripping out a random gay dude's heart was justified ❤️

[cedar skiff]

im telling ya silksong dlc q2 2026

[silk dirge]

this is kinda a wild thing to add in a patch tbh

[subtle plaza]

wait, this is real???

[charred nimbus]

Please TC give me more of Verdania

[subtle plaza]

huh??

[toxic mulch]

I think we're likely to get a dlc for the holidays

[silk dirge]

yes it was just added in the beta i think

[cedar skiff]

do you happen to have a before pic? @silk dirge

[proud harness]

It's closer to entering their Memory ala Dream Nail style, but with some Snail Shaman bullshenaniganry, she takes the Hearts from said memory of them being in their prime.

Less time travel, and more rejuvenation of sorts I guess? Maybe? Hmm.

[teal drift]

I actually think this doesnt mean much. I think this patch might be in direct response to people pointing out that what Hornet did do the Green Prince was super fucked up.

[cedar skiff]

unfortunately on my recent playthrough i did not doom the gays so i dont rememember what it used to look like

[lethal burrow]

I think they would've done something about the flies if they really cared about that sort of thing

[teal drift]

I think it works on sorta a similar attunement thing to godhome. You focus on a memory of something as it used to be or as it dreams to be and pull it into reality.

[toxic mulch]

I mean did he really want to live any longer tho? He achieved his goal

[cedar skiff]

oh damn thats a crazy fucking difference wtff

[proud harness]

Yeah, that's it probably!

[cedar skiff]

team cherry is moving like 2018 fortnite with the live events

[silk dirge]

REAL

[subtle plaza]

wait, so what are the lore implications of this?

[charred nimbus]

I would actually love if Team Cherry actually went this route with game development

Not actual fortnite events i mean

But like, progressivily changing the world

[toxic mulch]

Hornet fn skin when

[teal drift]

The fly thing is a made up controversy that a max of 20 people care about. The fact that hornet randomly kills GPs and invades his mindspace is objectively weird lol.

[silk dirge]

i have 0 clue

[proud harness]

Tbf we basically put him out of his misery.

Was it fucked up? Yeah, but like, there's kinda nothing we could have done for the Prince besides letting him rot next to the mechanical version of his lover.

[cedar skiff]

damn really?? kinda reminds me of when deltarune dropped and a scene was changed like not even a week later because people said it was too fucked up

[subtle plaza]

there were quite a bit of scrapped areas, so i'd be happy to see them get re-added in a DLC

Pharloom Bay, Aspid area.

[silk dirge]

yeah most people dont really care about the flies i think they probably just go "haha spiders hate flies" or some shit like that

[cedar skiff]

idk how plausible it is team cherry dont seem like the type to do something like that

[toxic mulch]

We need a coral expansion 🙏

[teal drift]

thats not confirmed its just my read on this change showing up at the time it happens.

[silk dirge]

but i dont think most people really care about killing gp

[cedar skiff]

the fact they nerfed fucking moss mother was already hilarious to me

[toxic mulch]

I'm still so upset we didn't get an actual coral biome

[alpine cipher]

on everyones soul we will get pharlooms bay and the lifeblood spire in some kind of way

[silk dirge]

like its supposed to be fucked up kinda

[toxic mulch]

Wait what

[subtle plaza]

i was also thinking of that but how would TC add that when sands of karak exists?

[toxic mulch]

They nerfed the FIRST boss?

[proud harness]

Godhome Style DLC but it focuses more on each of the Memory areas.

[teal drift]

It wouldnt even be in response to controversy, it would be correcting the story to make hornets actions a bit less weird taken out of context.

[cedar skiff]

i think the first patch initially nerfed moss mother/moorwing cant remember whether it was either or both

[subtle plaza]

ig they could just rework the dream thingies so that you can die and respawn in the memory segments

[silk dirge]

oh yeah that would make sense

[toxic mulch]

An expansion to the memory sequence

[cedar skiff]

still incredibly silly regardless

[silk dirge]

no they nerfed sister splinter and moorwing

[alpine cipher]

it was sister splinter and moorwing

[cedar skiff]

ohh alrgight my bad

[toxic mulch]

Moorwing I kinda understand but how was sister splinter bad enough to need nerfs?

[teal drift]

I dont really think we're getting found verdania or anything like that, i think this was a final touch they thought would be nice. I feel like Verdania is done in terms of its content.

[cedar skiff]

sister splinter wasnt even that hard (sorry)

[teal drift]

They only nerfed her ads, which was the actual problem in the fight for most.

[subtle plaza]

i think they wanted the mainline bosses to be easier

[silk dirge]

yeah sister splinter was easy as fuck

i think i first tried her

[toxic mulch]

Threadstorm

[teal drift]

sister splinter is one of the slowest bosses in the game, and they didn't really change anything about her. Her ads dealing 2 damage was annoying asf.

[cedar skiff]

if they cared about balancing mainline bosses groal would not be a needed fight over phantom

well at least phantom is needed for exactly one percentage guys

[subtle plaza]

act 3 isnt required to beat the game tho?

[teal drift]

if you dont have threadstorm there the ads are irritating and unwieldy

[proud harness]

When in doubt, spin dat silk til it songs the enemies

[teal drift]

with 2 damage*

[cedar skiff]

fairs i was looking towards act 3

and TE

[teal drift]

honestly i find it funny they nerfed Moorwing's saws but not his 2 contact damage lol.

[silk dirge]

i think sister splinter really is just kinda a buffer boss since the expected next boss after cling grip is widow

[subtle plaza]

moorwing was a pretty fun boss tbh

[alpine cipher]

is it? correct me if im wrong but i dont think bosses count for percentages in silksong

[silk dirge]

cross stitch

[alpine cipher]

o wait cross stitch nvm

[cedar skiff]

cross stitch

[silk dirge]

im glad they changed bosses being percents bc it was really weird in hk

[teal drift]

I found sister splinter with 2 damage ads harder than widow by far, but its one of those things that's just very subjective. Now that the ads do one damage I think splinter is way easier.

[silk dirge]

i dont think a lot of people realize dream warriors are percentage points for some reason lmao

[cedar skiff]

the low% difference still isnt even that crazy

[teal drift]

aren't they not percentage points?

[subtle plaza]

maybe they dont want you skipping out on them idk

[cedar skiff]

i think its 5% in silksong rn? compared to hks 11

[silk dirge]

oh wait im tripping

i swear they were percentage points

[teal drift]

oh wait i was thinking of the dream bosses, not the dream warriors

[cedar skiff]

clawline being hard required for literally one single door is so silly

[silk dirge]

THEY ARE

[teal drift]

I was thinking of lost kin and soul tyrant i forgot the nomenclature

[alpine cipher]

i just call them dream rematches i dont know if there is a term for em (probably there is)

[cedar skiff]

in terms of requirements for stuff silksong is kind of tedious anyway though

[subtle plaza]

i just call them dream bosses

[teal drift]

I think the percentages are weird in both games, neither really worked out the kinks.

[edgy barn]

Cloak upgrades don't count as percentages

(In silksong)

[teal drift]

a lot of things are weighted strangely or not at all lol

[cedar skiff]

the way the fleas for moving the caravan a third time and memory lockets are done outright annoy me since theres no way to reliably track either

[teal drift]

also the mementos are blatantly a coward's solution to percentages. Like those should probably be part of 100% but they were too scared to make 100%ing the game actually hard.

[cedar skiff]

you dont need all lockets to bind eva you only need 18 like thats so weird idk why that bothers me

[abstract rivet]

Yeah honestly i might save nail upgrade for last cus I’m super really lazy to clear the deep docks gauntlet in act 3

[abstract rivet]

you only need 15

[cedar skiff]

see man

its actually 15.

[edgy barn]

I would have personally executed every member of TC if Seth's memento was necessary for 100℅

[teal drift]

I do wish there was an in game system for tracking memory lockets and mask shards like the fleas. Most people are going to look it up anyways to 100%.

[abstract rivet]

I binded her with 15 lockets i can confirm

[silk dirge]

how do people find the whiteward elevator spool fragment casually lol

[subtle plaza]

you bind to eva based on how many memory lockets you found? I thought it was based on silk skills or smth

[teal drift]

I agree on seth's memento, but every other memento really should just be a percent imo.

[abstract rivet]

I think a merchant that sells mask shard/spool fragment locations would be cool similiar to how they did flea location shop

[cedar skiff]

i think hunters memento just doesnt work because you can lock yourself out of it iirc

[teal drift]

you can't iirc

[charred nimbus]

I don't think anyone really knows, in one save i binded Eva with 4 crests fully unlocked and on another save i had to unlock all of then

[silk dirge]

how

[narrow glacier]

It’s based on crests and crest slots unlocked

[cedar skiff]

i think theres some enemies that you cant access in act 3 anymore?

[subtle plaza]

how would you get hunters memento after going to act 3 without fighting garmond 😭

[silk dirge]

nope

[teal drift]

Yeah, or some weaver technology to track down spools and maskmaker shop to track down masks.