sk-lore

[brisk thunder]

I don't think so... Sentinel model might be limited in numbers, while those red/round models can be considered as mass produced model, hence replacing the old sentinels

[graceful grail]

They could be powered by Hearts, that could be why there are 2 cogwork dancers (conjoined heart)

[fathom hill]

we don't know if the silk flies even retain their personalities or identity when converted

[elfin minnow]

12th architect is less machine like ig? but she still has a silkfly

[fathom hill]

Not much it's known abt them no? this part of the lore escapes me a bit but like it's full on speculation no?

[graceful grail]

They probably have a will of some kind (like the will imposed on vessels by their shell)

[dire lynx]

the way i interpreted it was that they were experimental with cog heart only, and thats why they were encased and separate from the other sentinels

[edgy barn]

All automatons are powered by silkflies. They all act like machines

[fathom hill]

Like there's even lore tablets that actually explain this? Aside from that one room

[graceful grail]

No Silkflys leave dancers when you kill them

[elfin minnow]

theyre a special case cuz we know the dancer has the green prince's partner soul

[edgy barn]

Still powered by a soul. Just in a different way

[graceful grail]

I think his heart was also involved (kuz 2 of them in one)

[elfin minnow]

clankers become sentient 😨

[fathom hill]

Are the silk flies soul or silk? Is the silkfly name from the game?

Last time people were calling them moths so I'm not sure what are we basing ourselves

[fathom hill]

they didnt have chatgpt they had to use real bug souls

[graceful grail]

Prob silk, maybe the extracted silk that was put in them to begin with

[elfin minnow]

fnaf type shit

[graceful grail]

Also, the silkflies are in all the chandeliers in the citidel, how was that explained to the citesisn

[brisk thunder]

Well, they are bright, bright = light source = good lamp

[elfin minnow]

can silkflies die

[fathom hill]

I mean they were faith fanatics, probably the oligarchs were like "dont worry abt it"

[elfin minnow]

so basically if they cant die theyre immortalized by silk in a way

[fathom hill]

could be

[elfin minnow]

https://tenor.com/view/flight-reacts-gif-19008216

[fathom hill]

Silk does bring immortality

[elfin minnow]

when u go to the whiteward room full of corpses the needolin dialogue was

"please remember"
"no"
"help"

eerie af

[fathom hill]

the one with the silk flies?

[brisk thunder]

Might be like battery, battery depleted, change new battery

[dire lynx]

the one that breaks the seal on hornets cage dissapears so id say yes

[fathom hill]

can you show video pls

[fathom hill]

maybe it's soul as like the liquid in hk

[elfin minnow]

https://medal.tv/games/hollow-knight-silksong/clips/lene66W4A7cCjdXys?invite=cr-MSxLVnQsMzIyNzU2NzIw

[fathom hill]

but given form by the silk, since we know silk has the power of metamorphosis

some kind of silk and soul so to speak

[fathom hill]

what does the choral commandment in there say?

[elfin minnow]

lowkey creepy that they just dump those bodies there

wait i havent checked

[fierce jasper]

this is soul master all over again

[fair hull]

Is Hornet / Lace / Phantom all sisters?

[elfin minnow]

hornet isnt

[fierce jasper]

naur

[fair hull]

@fierce jasper are we sure? Maybe Grandmother Silk is their actual grandmother

[fathom hill]

Lace and Phantom seem to be the same "creation" but phantom was defective

[fair hull]

different dads

[lethal burrow]

Defective how

[fathom hill]

Hornet is daughter of Herrah which is the daughter of GMS as all weavers are

[fair hull]

pale king being hornets dad, IDK being dad to lace and phantom

[fierce jasper]

lace def but idk about phantom

[fathom hill]

Well abandoned same thing

[lethal burrow]

phantom and lace were just created strictly from silk

[fierce jasper]

phantom is pure silk??

[fair hull]

maybe still hera's children?

[lethal burrow]

yes

[dire lynx]

lace and phantom are sisters, hornet is kind of their niece

[fierce jasper]

daym

[fathom hill]

Yah just greyed out by age

[fierce jasper]

i see i see

fckass word doc took me 2h😭

[lethal burrow]

depends if you count the Weavers as true children

[fair hull]

@dire lynx are we sure that hornet isn't their sister?

[dire lynx]

hornet is herrah and the pale kings child

[fair hull]

Grandmother Silk maybe Hera's Mother

[dire lynx]

yes

[fair hull]

Yes

[fathom hill]

All of them were creations of gms, not one of them birthed I'm sure

[lethal burrow]

well they were ascended from lesser creatures

[fair hull]

Is it possible Herrah is the mother to Silk and Phantom?

[edgy barn]

There are two commandments found in Whiteward:

Tattered decree of the Citadel. "Bug of voice grown hoarse or shell fallen frail, you have been selected for duty most sacred.

Become our light, our guide in darkness, that others worthy may climb to join the holy song."

Surgeon's orders. "Devout has succumbed during Silk suture. Refuses to revive. Sin committed. Permit no rites.

Husk marked for cremation. Retrieve dregs."

[edgy barn]

No

[fair hull]

@edgy barn are we sure?

[edgy barn]

Yes

[fair hull]

how?

[fathom hill]

Oh yeah this is totally abt the flies thing

[dire lynx]

its directly stated that grandmother made lace and phantom

[fathom hill]

So like they revive as new beings maybe?

[fair hull]

Where?

[fathom hill]

Maybe same thing that happened to the weavers?

[lethal burrow]

Also, I don't think that's about the flies if you're talking about the slab wardens

[edgy barn]

A needolin dialogue in the Exhaust Organ + Lace calls herself the monarch's daughter (the monarch in question being GMS)

[dire lynx]

"Child of the monarch, she claimed herself at the end, and her shell suggested it true, a being born purely from Silk woven tight."

[fathom hill]

The silk flies

Silk moths

[lethal burrow]

oh them

[edgy barn]

btw I am 99℅ sure the "sin" in question is the patient dying. As in, the patient is the one that commited the sin by dying.

[fathom hill]

Yeah

That's definitely it, succumbing to x in medicine is dying

Or the sin was not reviving as I'm guessing a silk fly

[edgy barn]

No I think those are two different procedures

[lethal burrow]

i'm thinking the white word experiments were for the immortality via the silk yes?

[fathom hill]

Ah could be refuses to revive as just repeating dying?

They could do cpr and bug ain't waking up so it's a sin

what assholes lmao

[edgy barn]

The main purpose of the Whiteward was to remove aging and sickness from the citadel bugs by inserting Silk into them.

[fathom hill]

well aside from the fact they turned people into flies but whatever

[edgy barn]

The "Surgeon's Orders" commandment is one of the times it went poorly for the bug being experimented on.

[livid snow]

illness is literally a sin in the citadel lmao

[edgy barn]

And the bug in question is the one that gets the blame of course

[fathom hill]

Everything is a sin in pharloom man

[indigo oar]

Hornet is a bug

[fathom hill]

no

[lethal burrow]

Sort of

[fathom hill]

she says she is part bug/mostly bug

[elfin minnow]

i hope they expand more abt whiteward lore maybe in dlc

[lethal burrow]

I think it's pretty explicit

[elfin minnow]

like maybe we could see citadel in its prime in a memory or something

[fathom hill]

It's pretty hidden though

[elfin minnow]

and we can learn more about the experiments

[fathom hill]

Though yeah like what more abt the flies can we talk abt

They just kind of got turned and that's tragic but like

least we can do is free them ig

[lime nova]

I'm so curious about pre Silk Pharloom

[fathom hill]

same story than hallownest ig

all was well until this pale asshole came in

[lime nova]

Well, maybe not well, but alive

[fathom hill]

[lime nova]

There was still war

[fading whale]

Probably just verdania, ants, corals and shellwood

[lime nova]

Yeah

Nyleth fascinates me. I think the plants of Pharloom are her physical body manifesting. When you fight her in dream, she rewards you in the present

[graceful grail]

Are there any words that are spoken the same out loud as they are in English? Like Troobio??

[fathom hill]

The stilkin too

[fathom hill]

was it now?

[fading whale]

Bird chilling on mount fay, ancient civilization down in the abyss, and I'm wondering if the bells came before or after the citadel, the sheer amount of them and like veins of them too to me seemed like they must have been there before the citadel

[lime nova]

Poshanka

[fading whale]

Yeah stillkin as well but they wouldn't be toxic

[lime nova]

The ants were always a warlike tribe I believe, and Khan is referred to as a tyrant

[edgy barn]

We know the Karakans ruled half of it from the snail shaman dialogue

They were the local conquering empire

[fathom hill]

Yeah stilkin became petty after the citadel polluted their territory

[fading whale]

We don't have any idea how it must have looked before like how would they be

[lethal burrow]

why does the venom work on robots and like lace and stuff?

[fading whale]

They've been adapting to the poison for centuries it feels like

[lime nova]

Yes

[fading whale]

It's a game

[fathom hill]

video game

[lethal burrow]

yall are Boring

[lime nova]

Vido gam

[fading whale]

You can just imagine it's corrosive or

If that helps you

[edgy barn]

It's also an acid, just like the venom in Terraria

[lethal burrow]

neat

[lime nova]

Magic poison that deals magical poison damage

[lethal burrow]

Anyways guys, what's your favourite faction?

[fathom hill]

Maybe it hurts silk

Particularly

[fading whale]

I also wonder why the snails hide the fact that they're snails

In hallownest they didn't

[fathom hill]

All enemies are full of it so, even the robots since silkflies things

[lime nova]

PK was much more in favor of the void than silk likely was

[fading whale]

Snails aren't void

[lime nova]

They're void worshippers

[fathom hill]

Maybe another sect that worships the void wasn't as welcomed in the gms faith centered pharloom

They had to hide they were part of that sect

[lethal burrow]

hallownest was already ruined and nobody couldn't force their capture if they were prosecuted, also chapel made speaks of the citadel being unkind to the worship of the shamans as I remember it

[edgy barn]

Maybe the citadel would hunt them down if they didn't? We know they oppose it

[fading whale]

Not necessarily, they are attracted to and want to use anything that is powerful, void is included but it's not like they worship it, I doubt they worship anything

[lime nova]

?

[lethal burrow]

Didn't they only say they were fascinated?

[fading whale]

Yeah they're attracted and fascinated by powerful forces

Soul, the old hearts, void

[edgy barn]

It's the Skarr btw

[fading whale]

But they're not like oh void please cleanse us and consume the world

[lime nova]

I see them as pagan

[fading whale]

They're racist

[lime nova]

And paganism is generally frowned upon in fascist theocracies

Just look at the US lol

[fathom hill]

Could be

[lethal burrow]

true

[lime nova]

Practicers of witchcraft and allat

[fading whale]

Tbh I just think they wanted to hide it from the player even though I realised basically instantly within the first dialogue with chapel maid that she's a snail

[lethal burrow]

the mottling might be a disease as opposed to a separate race, we do see the one who sells you stuff, coughing.

Maybe the answer just being extra careful about the disease spreading or something. I don't know.

[lime nova]

Ok bro

[fathom hill]

I mean of course

[lethal burrow]

They could also just be racist

[fathom hill]

That's the gameplay point but the lore why is another

[fading whale]

For someone that's as obsessed with HK as I am if you pay attention you can tell, the way she's voice acted and the "ohoo" in the dialogue as well as her spiral staff

[lime nova]

We get it bro

[fading whale]

The one that gives curvesickle says in their needolin dialogue "our mark is not a curse" or something like that

[lime nova]

I thought it was a cool reveal

[fading whale]

Their needolin dialogue as well says things like "spiraling outward" and "glimmering trails" and "so many souls" that's snail shit right there

Yeah it was cool I mean I wasn't surprised but it felt good to be right nonetheless

[lethal burrow]

hmm maybe they're just a different people then but I wonder why the other one is coughing if it's not because of the pale spots

[fading whale]

I didn't notice the coughing but I believe you

[lethal burrow]

yeah, you just called it. No need to act like it was obvious.

[fading whale]

But like if it was a disease how could gurr the outcast grow so big and strong

[lethal burrow]

he could just be bad ass like that

[fading whale]

I think it's just a mutation like blue eyes or something

[fathom hill]

Bro just had vitiligo

[lethal burrow]

truue

[fading whale]

Yeah something like that, I mean in tribal societies people with conditions like that get outcasted

In real life as well

[fathom hill]

The disease hypothesis is interesting though, the coughing must be deliberate

[lethal burrow]

isn't it funny how the underground is brighter than the surface?

[graceful grail]

Is grand mother silk Biologically weavers mother because silk is her way of reproduction??

[fading whale]

I wish there was more tie in with hollow knight tbh silksong barely answered anything and it added a million new questions. I assumed that's what they'd do but personally I would have loved more physical actual real connections not just mr mushroom and mask maker

[fathom hill]

That's cuz the surface may also be underground

But there's no civilization up there so no artificial lights

[lethal burrow]

She used her magic silk powers to ascend the Weavers from the pharlids

[lethal burrow]

then why is it called the surface?

[edgy barn]

They weren't racist before the haunting (don't ask for proof just trust me on this one)

[fading whale]

I mean the light in the entire game makes absolutely no sense moss grotto looks borderline sunny

[graceful grail]

But does using her silk make them her children??

[fathom hill]

Idk but I'm pretty sure dirthmouth it's also "the surface" in hallownest but tc said it was underground

[lethal burrow]

I feel like that's needless misdirection

[fathom hill]

So I'm guessing the same

[balmy reef]

?????

thought u were gone for good

[quartz flicker]

There's seemingly no sun or stars in the Hollow Knight universe and yet the environments aren't all just pitch black.

[fathom hill]

There used to be a sun

[quartz flicker]

Light just kind of exists in most underground spaces.

[graceful grail]

Or it’s perpetually in a new moon

[fading whale]

Yeah sure but like why is moss grotto so full of light and wormways right above are dark sf

[graceful grail]

And foggy

[fading whale]

In any case I'm glad it's the way it is I mean music doesn't play in real life either but I'm still glad it exists in the game

Light comes from the same spot the music comes from

[fathom hill]

video gam

[fading whale]

So does anyone else think the bells existed before the citadel or is it just me

[graceful grail]

Whats it supposed to be, Pitch Black?? Godda cut some universal corners

[muted lantern]

it is called a bell vein, which is kind of odd, not sure what to make of that other than they are naturally occuring? which is pretty strange

[lethal burrow]

I would like a source for both of those things you just said

[fathom hill]

Brb

[fading whale]

It's mentioned in the game by someone I don't remember who that "our ancestors used to make them"

[lethal burrow]

that is up to you and your interpretation.

The Weavers would say no, but grandmother silk would probably say yes

[fading whale]

Like so many of them that there's veins of them

Of course at the moment in time when that's said, the citadel's builders are definitely far enough in the past to be called ancestors, but the fact that it's called veins as you said makes it seem to me like for some reason the bugs even before the citadel were making them like crazy filling the world

[sullen cave]

GMS doesn't have a mask nor a face. With masks being what they are in-universe, what does that symbolize for GMS?

[edgy barn]

Well PK also didn't have a face in his Wyrm form

I don't think Higher Beings need them.

[sullen cave]

Makes sense, I guess.

[muted lantern]

laces face looks a little like the radiance

[proud swan]

Bell vein?

[muted lantern]

its the caves full of bells above bellhart, called a bellvein, like a vein of ore

[proud swan]

"A town built within the thick vein of bells that runs through Pharloom’s core. One wonders who would craft so many, and for what purpose?"

Crazy

[barren beacon]

Why does the void take over Lace

And why is she called lost lace. Is it because she's lost under the influence of void?

[dry bridge]

took a brief dip in the big pool of void before gms could cocoon the two of them, presumably

I imagine it's a similar phenomenon to the way void enhances & corrupts spells in the first game, given lace is a being composed entirely out of silk, which itself is described as soul channeled within a thread

[brisk thunder]

i think it is easier for the void to take over made-lifeform, like the knight as a vessel and lace as a silk-being

The one you fought = body
The one that talked before = mind

Brought the body out, the mind re-enter the body

[robust wagon]

The last stag says that he can tell he's near the surface when at the Dirtmouth stag station

[brisk thunder]

But I think that anyone that is invaded by void will be listed as 'lost', same with Garmond case

[fading whale]

Lost pilby dlc final boss

[dry bridge]

interestingly, in silksong's mr. mushroom ending there's stars in the background as mr. mushroom flies through the sky, but not in the first game.

[heavy gyro]

Those aren't stars, they're dust particles

[lethal burrow]

I just don't know why the game would be lying about the surface being the surface

[robust wagon]

Wdym?

[silver spire]

exactly .-.

[lethal burrow]

people have claimed the surface is not actually the surface

[silver spire]

like why would they lie about that

[fathom hill]

I found it}

Fucking leth said this

his ass i swear to god

[fathom hill]

also abt dirthmouth being "the surface" just look at the map

plus its alongside howling cliffs

which is also "the surface"

[robust wagon]

Also tc have said that the stuff in the game supersedes anything they say

[fathom hill]

yep

They have said quite a lot of stuff over the years tbf

Most of these thing must have been retcon so they did damage control

Which shows cause act 3 in silksong is a thing

[craggy smelt]

no surface
only underground bug kingdoms forever
if they change this, that'll be it

underground forever million years

[brisk thunder]

surface of an area not equal to surface of the world/land

[robust wagon]

Well the surface in silksong isn't called 'the surface of Pharloom' it's just called 'the surface'

[gentle aspen]

the surface in hollow knight isn’t called the surface of hallownest either, just called the surface

[foggy fractal]

surface discussion

what if instead we had core discussion

[azure rivet]

alita vs verdanir who would win

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/darkest-dungeon-ancestor-gif-21405227

[craggy smelt]

power scaling regular enemies now? shut it all down

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/walks-away-sad-leave-tom-and-jerry-gif-16877258

[muted lantern]

hey what does one call the speaking device inside the diving bell?

[graceful grail]

So, weavers are literally everywhere??

[craggy smelt]

they probably aren't everywhere - all the ones that went to Hallownest are gone for a start
but they could be anywhere

like vessels

[wispy urchin]

were

[fathom hill]

this just means they migrated to a lot of places

[craggy smelt]

speaking tube or voicepipe

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-voices-in-my-head-voices-cat-gif-23453583

[graceful grail]

So, were weavers like Herra intedned to make offspring with power from other lands to for example challenge GMS and have someone born from their silk in charge??

[fathom hill]

could be

[graceful grail]

Nvrmind, looks like this weaver just wanted to zip outa pharloom.

[fathom hill]

are both true?

[graceful grail]

This weaver aint speaking for everyone i think

[fathom hill]

the weavers in stone do give their power to someone that can have it

[timber pond]

Probably team A and Team B. Rather some chose to do diffrent things. Probably knowing what the others would do

[fathom hill]

So the plan of overthrowing gms is true

[graceful grail]

Do you guys see a face (helmet)??

[fathom hill]

but yeah some weavers may have just want to live a normal life outside of pharloom

[graceful grail]

Yeah, and some wanted breeding weavers to make demigods*

[fathom hill]

herrah may have been coaxed by the other weavers to this plan but maybe Herrah was one of the ones that just wanted to flee, thats why she tells hornet to not listen to them and to do what she decides

[graceful grail]

Yeah she just wanted to be a mother to hornet 😢

[graceful grail]

Also, i think her horns came from when her mask merged with her body, Hornet must have inherited it after imo

[fathom hill]

but she still has horns in the memories no?

Before the mask with the face Hornet does not remember

[graceful grail]

Yeah, after she merged with mask

I think she merged with mask before hornet was conceived, maybe part of thr deal with pk for no takebacks

[dim sky]

Ok so i have a question and it's regarding the true ending of silksong. During the final cutscene, we see what i'm pretty sure is the knight in its form during the Dream No More ending, then suddenly shifting to the Shade Lord momentarily, then back while also showing its siblings in the background. One tiny But noticeable detail that has always confused me about the true ending is the lack of THK's shade being there. We know that THK was a vessel trained to "Prime form" and most definitely has a shade, yet THK's shade is abnormally abscent during the true ending cutscene. There should be no reason Outright as to why THK's shade isn't present during this cutscene because agai, THK is a vessel trained to prime form and should have been able to apear alongisde the knight during this cutscene as even the normal siblings who weren't trained are able to apear, so unless the crack in THK's shell has something to do with that, i'm finding it very believable that the Embrace the void ending is the canon ending

[craggy smelt]

THK's absence amongst the siblings is a pretty strong indicator that ETV is canon, meaning THK never died or shed their shell to release their shade, and so is probably still hanging out back in Hallownest wondering what happened to Hornet

[fathom hill]

this

[craggy smelt]

THK doesn't have to obey the Void Heart, so their Shade could just be off somewhere else, but still

[graceful grail]

Or they lived together for a while in the city 🌃

[craggy smelt]

ETV is the most bananas ending they could have gone with, but Silksong has gone to some pretty bananas places, so... I'd say odds are good that's the one their following up on

I predict the Steel Clan kidnapped THK, gave them as new steel arm, and turn them against Hornet for the City of Steel DLC

[graceful grail]

I diddnt like the first ss ending i got 🕷️

[craggy smelt]

well, that one is very sad

[graceful grail]

Yeah, we just need means to move a steel city to pharloom

[molten parcel]

Probably what phantom looked like when she was created

[craggy smelt]

she probably had white pants

wonder how her eyes worked... black on black

[ebon silo]

Why would she have a mask though in the present

[molten parcel]

I dunno

[ebon silo]

Bruh

[lethal burrow]

naw she definitely had more white

[graceful grail]

Or she was all white like Lace

[wispy urchin]

lmao

[molten parcel]

I js know phantom is the unwanted kid

[tender thorn]

Chat
Today I found out that if you play the needolin in the lace 2 fight too many times she cries 😭
Which makes sense considering she's just...all silk and the needolin is basically vibrating her whole body....

[graceful grail]

Phantoms are white 👻

[wispy urchin]

thats not the reason she would be crying lol

[tender thorn]

Then what do you think it is? /genq

[wispy urchin]

the weavers/chorus bugs played song to keep gms asleep so they could harvest her silk
lace is the daughter of gms

[tender thorn]

Lemme post the clip- wait
Are we allowed to post embedded links

[wispy urchin]

she was made before they put her to sleep

[molten parcel]

So did GMS died in SoTV

[muted lantern]

how the hell does hornet tell bell beast where to go

[wispy urchin]

have you ever rid a horse
(who knows)

[molten parcel]

Telepathy /j

Why is there only one bell beast

[muted lantern]

i don't think hornet knows the bellways routes, but maybe

[muted lantern]

bell eater

[tender thorn]

No she just tells them the location and they just know /hj

[graceful grail]

Did Void calm down in the end also because GMS died. Because hornet makes a point how her making that silk ball down there was wrecking Pharloom

[wispy urchin]

i mean you could make assumptions because its a tunnel of bells

[wispy urchin]

the whole reason the void was everywhere and gms was freaking out was because GMS wanted to protect lace (she didnt want her to die to void)

[tender thorn]

This also begs the question of how the Knight told the last stag where it wanted to go

[muted lantern]

well last stag was sapient so the knight probably just pointed to their map

[dim sky]

Another detail i noticed separate from the true ending is the everbloom because i find it weird how the snail shamans mention how they would have known about one growing in their kingdom and how even hornet remarks how she " would not seek it in these lands" And considering the kingdom of Hallownest and Pharloom are not the only kingdoms to have existed, it makes me wonder about the true origins for the evrbloom

[wispy urchin]

the only reason the void saved us is because the knight was like "yo she chill she helped us kill the radiance"

[muted lantern]

but i don't think bell beast knows what a map is

[wispy urchin]

didnt he have a mouth piece and saddle

[graceful grail]

Wonder how ling she could keep that up for

[muted lantern]

he could still talk

[wispy urchin]

horses can still neigh with mouth pieces?

[muted lantern]

he spoke in full sentences lol

am i being ragebaited lol

[wispy urchin]

and

[wispy urchin]

this is a question genius

[muted lantern]

what does this have to do with him being sapient or not?

[tender thorn]

Saddle yes, mouthpiece I don't think so

[wispy urchin]

you asked how he was told where to go

[muted lantern]

someone else asked that, i was asking about bell beast

[wispy urchin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1131018305713475644.gif?size=48&animated=true&name=assjim

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/darkest-dungeon-ancestor-gif-21405227

this reaction gif is funnier if you know what this guy does immediatly after this frame

[dim sky]

Not really? Hornet only really helps kill the radiance during the Dream No More ending, because technically in the universe where EtV is canon you kill the radiance through the godseekers attunement/ arena and the only time hornet helps is during the kings brand escape sequence, in the EtV ending during the end scene she is seen waiting outside the black egg temple with a clearly angry/ confused THK walking around\

[ebon silo]

Let me guess he start throwing it back?

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/darkest-dungeon-gif-23184588

[wispy urchin]

im pretty sure the dream no more ending is what silksong is built off of

[ebon silo]

Nooooo

[wispy urchin]

it makes more sense thematically

[ebon silo]

You are a dead man walking

[lethal burrow]

I don't think you get to be sarcastic when you're the one who didn't add a question mark

[muted lantern]

its up in the air, we get shade lord flashes and thks shade isnt amongst the siblings, implying more of etv

lol

[wispy urchin]

you dont need punctuation to speak english when your a fluent speaker talking to another fluent speaker

[edgy river]

Tbf he phrased it like a question

[muted lantern]

you're*

[wispy urchin]

i say your instead of youre :D

[edgy river]

but i think the sarcasm was unwarranted and overall a little bit toxic

[dim sky]

No yeah, i was just pointing out hornet doesn't assist the knight outside of rescuing the knight during kingsbrand, but i get your point i just wanted to point it out a little lol

[wispy urchin]

i mean thk doesnt have to be there tho

i wonder how the knight and siblings traveled to pharloom in the void that fast tho

[wispy urchin]

hornet saying to lace something about "ive seen gods fall" or whatever saying she can probably kill gms is what im kinda going off of

because thk wasnt a god but maybe she was talking about PK

but i think it makes more sense if it was radiance

[dim sky]

Probably something to do with the everbloom? It would be interesting because IIRC the everbloom only "Resists" the dark, it doesn't mention outright destroying the dark

[edgy river]

Do yall think MrMushroom will ever be important?

[wispy urchin]

she wouldnt have seen it but she definitely wouldve known the knight killed radiance

[muted lantern]

the line left it more ambigious than saying shes seen them fall, more of knowing that they can die, not implying shes seen it happen

[ebon silo]

Y'know phantom didn't have to literally scoop herself using the exhaust organ's smoke and then come out from said smoke to enter the battle

[wispy urchin]

a subplot

[wispy urchin]

@muted lantern bwa

because the dream no more ending if hornets smart she can definitely infer what happened

the source of the corruption ate shit

[edgy river]

How do u know it was that fast, they could be going for a while. Maybe they didnt go to save hornet right of the bat, maybe they initially went to pharloom because of the whole GMS in void fiasco

[muted lantern]

i mean she can also do that in etv, considering the infections just dies, that requires the goddess to die

[wispy urchin]

thats still a very long ways tho

[ebon silo]

Iirc phantom is in charge of relocating the waste of the citadel to the bilewater right? So she's like the number 1 enemy?

[wispy urchin]

true

[topaz estuary]

Does it though?

[wispy urchin]

but i dont think the etv ending would be the canon one because it was added in a dlc

[edgy river]

Hornet had to go fight 3 dream bosses, if not 4, and then get a flower from her memory, they had time. Also void clearly seems to be able to travel quickly

[muted lantern]

radi doesnt seem like the kinda gal to go "you know what? i actually think im done murdering people"

[wispy urchin]

godhome and godseekers is a subplot like grimm troupe

[wispy urchin]

true

[ebon silo]

That ending would only be proven if the hollow knight appears or mentioned alive

[wispy urchin]

he appears in the true ending of silksong as his void form that kills radiance?

his shell is gone

[ebon silo]

Are we talking about title screen or the ghost

[muted lantern]

its meant to be vague so people can pick whichever of the two fan favorite endings they want to be canon

[wispy urchin]

wdym

[topaz estuary]

Of course not, but I’m thinking of when the moths stopped worshipping, etc etc. Was the infection just what happened to bugs under Rad’s control or was it something she sent on purpose?

[edgy river]

its a subplot except if u do their endings, then it becomes important. And the endings are cannon and a possible connection to Silksong

[wispy urchin]

oh you mean thk or the knight

[ebon silo]

...yes

[wispy urchin]

i was talking about the knight

[ebon silo]

Oh of course he appears in the act 3 ending

[wispy urchin]

i still think it makes more since to be dream no more

than the dlc endings

[tender thorn]

I'm pretty sure the silksong true ending canonises the godhome ending right

[dim sky]

She would be talking about PK. She might also lump together the radiance in there but from what i think shes mainly talking about PK

[wispy urchin]

no its still kinda vague

[muted lantern]

it's intentionally vague so it could be either etv or dnm

[edgy river]

I think radiance tried to control their minds through the realm of dreams, the infection proper manifested when bugs tried to reject her in their minds

[tender thorn]

Cause we see like a couple frames of the Shade Lord when the knight's shade comes to rescue Hornet and Lace

[wispy urchin]

she said shes seen gods fall and i think in the context of defeating GMS it makes more sense that it would be dream no more ending

[topaz estuary]

What about the bugs that welcomed her, like the moss prophets?

[edgy river]

Its clearly intentionally vague to be either godhome ending without flower or DNM, both work fine and its meant to be sequel to both, at least for now

[wispy urchin]

it could be a reference for people who got the ending but that doesnt mean thats the true ending

[topaz estuary]

That could also just be how he looks in the dream realm after dream no more

[wispy urchin]

i wondered if they would pick a ending and stick with it or make it vague and it seems quite vague

[edgy river]

i like that its vague

[tender thorn]

True

[edgy river]

i wish they could have made so vague any ending would work but that would be almost impossible so its fine this way

[wispy urchin]

but i think it makes more sense that the base game ending thats way harder to get (dnm) is the story silksong is built off of for the way harder to get ending (act 3 lost lace fight)

[tender thorn]

That would've been impossible cause of sealed siblings

[wispy urchin]

yea but sealed siblings is depressing

lol

[tender thorn]

Yeah...
Team cherry and their depressive story lmao /aff

[edgy river]

Silksong sealed siblings version is trying to run it in my old pc where the game just crashes instantly

canon to sealed siblings

[ebon silo]

Godseeker ending (w/o delicate flower)

Radiance dies
Hollow knight lives
Shade lord(Void given focus) appears in this ending

This ending would only be proven if the hollow knight is mentioned or even appears in the later dlcs of silksong but considering the shade lord appears very briefly-

Dream no more

Hollow knight dies
Radiance dies
Hollow knight shade appears
Lord of shades(Void given form)
In the act 3 ending the hollow knight shade does not appear

[edgy river]

Nah, knight and hornet get to spend time together!!

[wispy urchin]

in jail :(

[tender thorn]

Yeah. In permanent mental breakdown.
For hornet at least

[topaz estuary]

It’s entirely possible the shade lord is just the dream version of the Knight

[ebon silo]

the shade lord is the true gods of all gods

[topaz estuary]

And that he doesn’t necessarily need to do all of the pantheons to become shade lord

[tender thorn]

Ehhh I think that's a stretch
The shade lord is just a culmination of all the shades, including the knight's shade form

[wispy urchin]

the void is the foundation that the world is built off of

[edgy river]

Hornet will probably just die in sealed siblings, she says the black egg temple is not meant for being like her (not void) to be in there for long periods of time

[wispy urchin]

the shade lord is void given focus, a goal or purpose. the voids true god

[topaz estuary]

Ok yea so then maybe it’s just the dream version of the Knight (plus all the other shades) after he gets voidsoul (gives it focus)?

[wispy urchin]

not to mention that the marrows background of fossils/bones includes the faces of the new void mobs

[edgy river]

I dont think so but i dont think the flash of shade lord indicates it must be shade lord there

[ebon silo]

Wdym dream version like is he zote or something

[wispy urchin]

which might have weird implications

[tender thorn]

Yeah but she becomes a dreamer in that ending so maybe that'll keep her alive in like a stasis state?

[topaz estuary]

Dream version as in like pure vessel is dream version of HK

[edgy river]

I think that is not confirmed enough for us to be this sure about it

[wispy urchin]

what else could the shade lord be then

[ebon silo]

You mean prime version? I'm pretty sure the PV we see is his prime state like him before sealing the infection inside of him

[tender thorn]

Just like a combined version of all the vessel shades?

Including the Knight and THK

A being that has power over the void, but is not in absolute control of the void

Significant power*

[wispy urchin]

is it ever shown that thk or the knight have been in the same room as shade lord or are they possibly an amalgamation

[edgy river]

We really do not know if it is the "true god of void" or if it was even whatever the ancient civ worship, this is all theories which are fine but not confirmed, its good to reming ourselves TC can release a dlc tomorrow saying it was all wrong and shade lord is just the conglomerate of the knight's and the siblings power given focus but not like any "old" god or anything like that

[tender thorn]

THK I'm not sure but in the godseeker ending the knight's shade coalesces with the void rising from below

[topaz estuary]

I suppose that’s one way of looking at it, I mean all of the radiant bosses are basically prime versions so I can see that logic

[edgy river]

yeah, i do think the godly focus turned it into that being, and that is pretty much confirmed, but othet than that, we really do not KNOW much

[wispy urchin]

the void is weird

[tender thorn]

Yeah
Damn TC and their vague storytelling (kidding we love it so much)

[wispy urchin]

and we know literally nothing about the ancient civ other than arcane eggs existing

[tender thorn]

Do we even know what exactly arcane eggs are

[wispy urchin]

grrrrr i hate stories that still have to be told that i cant know rn

[topaz estuary]

After all without it what would we have to talk about? :D

[wispy urchin]

they are like multiple layers of something that can be deciphered into writing

[tender thorn]

Exactly!!

[dim sky]

Weaver base in the abyss= Ancient civ/ ancestors? /j

[wispy urchin]

not sure how the fuck they know the language

[tender thorn]

Don't let cc see this lmao

[wispy urchin]

no

god thatd be the worst conclusion imo

[topaz estuary]

Wait why not tho

[dim sky]

Floor lore

[wispy urchin]

because it doesnt make sense

[tender thorn]

LMAO

[topaz estuary]

Eli5?

[wispy urchin]

i was about to yap but nvm you got it homie

[wispy urchin]

what did u jus say

[topaz estuary]

Explain Like I’m 5

Like what is floor lore

[wispy urchin]

the floor is unique where this ancient civilization was

[tender thorn]

The floor is made of floor

[wispy urchin]

compared to weavers

[wispy urchin]

the floor built by people

does someone have photos

[topaz estuary]

What rooms?

Yes photos pls

[wispy urchin]

also

it doesnt make sense because i think we can infer that the civilization built around the void only/solely

the weavers fled yea but this civilization is older than weavers

[tender thorn]

Definitely

[wispy urchin]

its older than hollownest and the citadel

[keen summit]

Can engame lore hornet beat radiance

[wispy urchin]

hornet never had dream nail idk

[topaz estuary]

Honestly I love ancient civilizations built on even more ancient civilizations it’s just so cool

[tender thorn]

It might be the oldest civ in like the entirety of the HKverse

[wispy urchin]

wait no hornet said she couldnt last long in the egg

[tender thorn]

She's not good with void

[edgy river]

she cannot even see radiance

[tender thorn]

Or even the moth's light, I think

[edgy river]

i mean she can read minds with music so maybe assuming she could fight radiance... Probably?

[tender thorn]

Like if the radiance were to appear in front of her maybe??? Idk

Higher beings are weird

[wispy urchin]

silk has anomalous properties

[edgy river]

I mean idk how radiance stacks up agaisnt GMS

[tender thorn]

Powerscaling higher beings is weirder

[wispy urchin]

radiance seems to be a dream made by the moths

[keen summit]

Ye

[wispy urchin]

that doesnt exist physically like pk or gms but was made real by them

[tender thorn]

Maybe she could bind the radiance's power to herself? Like she can with GMS?

[edgy river]

Unn solos eveyone in Pharloom that isnt hornet and GMS /j

[wispy urchin]

the only reason radiance is a thing is that the moths made her up as their light god

[tender thorn]

Where was this said?

[wispy urchin]

it seems like

[edgy river]

GMS kinda is made from silk so its different, right?

[wispy urchin]

i said it seems like

[keen summit]

Radiance is a moth too ryt js a higher being one

[tender thorn]

Allow me to rephrase
Where was that implied?

[wispy urchin]

you only fight her in the dream dimension
she controls the minds of bugs and barely has any physical extensions of herself

outside of orange bugs/goop and the mind control

[tender thorn]

Maybe? I mean
We've seen her bind the power of things that most certainly aren't silk like the witch crest for example

And the shaman crest, which most certainly isn't silk

[edgy river]

true

[wispy urchin]

hornet was able to switch crests because her soul was malleable

her soul was unlike a mortal bugs

maybe its related to being a demigod or silk

[tender thorn]

True, yeah
This isn't a theory I've heard before, it's pretty interesting to think of thag

[wispy urchin]

probably demigod

[edgy river]

i guess she is getting the silk from their soul. And idk if radiance has soul since she is a dream being but probably yes, we do get soul when hitting her as knight, i guess

[tender thorn]

Yeah probably that

[wispy urchin]

silk is said to be the life essence of everything and makes mortal bugs immortal

[tender thorn]

Silk and soul are connected, from what the seamstress says

[wispy urchin]

of the bugs in pharloom i think

[edgy river]

from what i get hornet has the power to kinda transform others soul into silk

[tender thorn]

So it is possible I guess for hornet to bind with radiance's power

[edgy river]

but im not 100% on that

[wispy urchin]

well do remember they used silk to live longer

[tender thorn]

If she can weaken the moth enough

[wispy urchin]

i bet silk is some sort of physical form of soul

[tender thorn]

I think so too

[wispy urchin]

just stringed out like some weird string theory

[tender thorn]

Maybe like a processed form of soul?

[ebon silo]

"Chosen vessel, raised and trained to prime form." - Wiki about the pure vessel

We fight him in his prime state before he sealed the infection

Void given form

(This is the form that the Knight takes during the Dream No More ending. This ending can only be accessed after obtaining the Void Heart. Before getting this Charm, the creature where the Shade Cloak is acquired has Dream Nail dialogue that presumably relates to this Void Entity. It can be accessed only with the Awoken Dream Nail and states:

"...Void... Power... Without unity..."

This dialogue changes when Void Heart is acquired, after which it states:

"...Lord of Shades..."

It is suggested by both this dialogue and the description of Void Heart that after the Knight gets Void Heart, the Void is united by a Lord of Shades, which is presumably the Knight.) - wiki

Void given focus

After defeating the Absolute Radiance in the Pantheon of Hallownest, this Void Entity is seen, as well as during the Embrace the Void ending cutscene. Its scream can be heard during the cutscene that plays after defeating the Pure Vessel in the Pantheon of the Knight. The Pantheon of Hallownest cannot be entered without having Void Heart, suggesting a possible link between Void Heart and this entity.

So I guess during the godseeker the knights void was tuned? Probably because of killing multiple gods and all

[wispy urchin]

i think so because soul that the knight uses is much more blobby and just the whole soul

[ebon silo]

I don't think hornet can win against radiance

[edgy river]

why not

[tender thorn]

Yeah soul is more liquid-y
Or gaseous, I guess

Silk is solid

[wispy urchin]

honestly i like that theory much better than it being a seperate thing from soul

that makes way more sense to me

[tender thorn]

Thank you, I'm glad

[wispy urchin]

erm

[edgy river]

From what i got from the dialogue, Hornet poccess the power to channel the soul of other bugs during combat and make it into the solid form of silk inside her shell

So basically that

[topaz estuary]

It’s silk mixed with soul I believe

[tender thorn]

Oh I missed that lmao
Credit to you then lol

[topaz estuary]

What they said

[wispy urchin]

where does it say that tho

i know they inject silk into their shells to be mock immortal

[edgy river]

Ill try and look it up but i forgot where i got that

[ebon silo]

The radiance only fell because it got eaten by void and weakened by the knight hornet has no control over void because she has no connection to it binding it wouldnt do anything because I'm pretty sure you can only bind silk and was the reason GMS died in ending 1

Like I do not think you can just bind everything

[edgy river]

she can bind stuff which isnt silk tho

She can bing the shamman crest, architech crest

[wispy urchin]

this is why i think radiance was sort of imagined by the moths and given a form
and why you only fight and see radiance in the dream world
shes a made up god by moths

[edgy river]

i guess architect would make sense, but shamman, beast and reaper no

[wispy urchin]

she was made real by the moths and now she angi

[ebon silo]

No the radiance made the moths

[wispy urchin]

why is radiance only in the dream dimension then?

we see statues of her but nothing indicating physical presence besides the infection

[edgy river]

shes scared of zote the mighty

shes hiding from him

[ebon silo]

because that's where she lives why would seer says it's their fault for abandoning her if "they created her"

[edgy river]

Thats also why PK sent his palace to the dream world, he was also hiding from zote

[wispy urchin]

because the moths made radiance real, they made the radiance from their favorite thing ever

[topaz estuary]

About floor lore: what’s to stop an individual civilization from having different architectural styles across different time periods?

dontkillmedontkillmedontkillme…

[wispy urchin]

weavers arent old enough to have a renaissance

[topaz estuary]

Ok fair point

however

[wispy urchin]

they probably went down to shabbier buildings after they scattered and started dying

and captured

[topaz estuary]

Is a renaissance necessary for different architecture? I mean even different areas of one civilization could have different architecture

[ebon silo]

(moths)They forsook the "light"(radiance) that spawned them. Turned their backs to it... Forgot it even. - Seer

There's your answer

The Moths were birthed from the light of the Radiance,[6] a higher being brighter than Essence[6] living outside the physical realm. While they used to worship her, they turned their backs on her when the Pale King arrived in Hallownest.[

[wispy urchin]

dam

[ebon silo]

There is no tooth fairy there is no Santa Claus and there is no moths making the radiance

[wispy urchin]

why is she still in the dream world tho

and someone like gms isnt

[tender thorn]

That's her home ig

Pretty sure the dream realm is like Radiance's domain, I believe?

[wispy urchin]

thats kinda odd but i understand it ig

[ebon silo]

"a higher being brighter than Essence living outside the physical realm." She simply lives in the dream world because I'm pretty sure she controls the dream world or have control around it

[tender thorn]

Yeah what I meant

[ebon silo]

The statue in the hallownests crown was also the only reason the radiance managed to get a grip on the physical world leading to the infection

[wispy urchin]

why did herrah look so different to other weavers

[ebon silo]

Retcon

[wispy urchin]

how

[wispy urchin]

ic

that tracks lol

[tender thorn]

My theory is that she didn't always look like that and that being a dreamer drastically changed her appearance
Because of her affinity to silk clashing with the dreams

[ebon silo]

She can't do anything if you don't know her or don't bother remembering her but considering the statue still existed in that place she managed to linger in the physical world

She does live outside the physical world

[wispy urchin]

DUDE mister mushroom ending saying to be continued has me hyped for a third game

[mental vale]

Okay, so I got a 100% save file done- and I still don't quite know this yet-
||What is the weighted Belt good for? I hadn't noticed a difference the times that i did use. And i'm not sure when i should have been using it if at all.||

[wispy urchin]

and the seer knowing her existence means nothing?

and using the dream world tech?

[tender thorn]

It's steady body but silksong

[mental vale]

I'm not very familiar with steady body or how/when to use that either xD

[wispy urchin]

you dont move when you hit something

like an enemy instead of having slight recoil

[tender thorn]

Ask in #sk-discussion this is the lore channel :D

[wispy urchin]

honestly useless but so are every other yellow

[tender thorn]

The pin is good

Like the thing that keeps you glued to a wall

[mental vale]

Oh woops wrong channel

[ebon silo]

hm seer is a complicated character

The Seer is the last surviving member of the Moth Tribe. She tends the graves of the Resting Grounds and guides the Knight because "she regrets that her ancestors" forgot about their creator, the Radiance.

So she must've not exactly know what the radiance is because she may presumingly be born after the betrayal so she can't exactly depict her

[wispy urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/yurpzie-vtuber-anime-anime-shake-anime-grip-gif-13095154692374514122

[tender thorn]

I have to agree here
We don't know exactly how long ago the moths "betrayed" the big moth
We don't know the timeline exactly

[wispy urchin]

i still think hollownest is older than citadel. not older than the weavers tho

[tender thorn]

Hallow*

Like o lord in heaven, hallowed be thy name type hallow

[ebon silo]

Should be older yes I think because of the deepnest thing and the unfinished projects of the kingdom near that area

[wispy urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/could-gif-8654480387446744708

[ebon silo]

That's called stalin-idealogy

[wispy urchin]

wdym deepnest thing

[tender thorn]

It means holy, I think
Hallownest would literally mean holy nest I guess?

[tender thorn]

LMAO

[wispy urchin]

thats called taking a joke as a declarative statement

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1131018305713475644.gif?size=48&animated=true&name=assjim

[ebon silo]

I know

[tender thorn]

Bestie it was a joke lmao

[ebon silo]

I know 😭😭

[wispy urchin]

dude i had to pause the game when i first saw the ass attack

[tender thorn]

I was laughing so hard I died to them

Thankfully the runback isn't too bad

It is interesting how most of silksong's main characters are female

Wokesong /j

[ebon silo]

The majority are all female

[ebon silo]

Not woke if the story is good and has nothing to do with woke ideas

[wispy urchin]

how many VA did silksong have tho

[tender thorn]

Hollow Knight if it was WOKE:
And absolutely nothing changes

[wispy urchin]

i thought my autism was bad

hooly moly

[ebon silo]

There are worse people if you think harder

[tender thorn]

I know lmao
I'm a trans aro ace girl why would I have a problem with wokeness

[ebon silo]

Ace? As in ace attorney I do need an attorney rn

[wispy urchin]

https://tenor.com/view/jgmm-cat-meme-ragebait-cat-think-cat-ponder-gif-7034802297606826390

[tender thorn]

LOL

[wispy urchin]

if being a gay couple is woke then damn ig

rip to clover dancers

[tender thorn]

Silksong, the game that gave us doomed yuri AND doomed yaoi

No happy couples in this game

[wispy urchin]

dude i absolutely despise lacenet shippers

[tender thorn]

I-
Why

[wispy urchin]

cuz lace is a child

[tender thorn]

I strongly disagree

She's "a shell made to act like a child"

[wispy urchin]

here lemme copy and paste my rant in a different server

[wispy urchin]

Okay, so if Lace is:
A being that has the body and mind of a child, described by multiple in-game characters
Permanently in the state of immaturity, never to be capable of growing beyond it (or at least in her appearance in game)
In the mindset herself that she is, in fact, a child

Then she's a child. The important definitions for "child" it regarding the issue at hand absolutely match; She does not have nor display the maturity of a consenting adult, nor is she described by ANY character in-game to be physically mature either. If she was created to be a child, and literally cannot mature, then she is still a child, regardless of if she has been around for a while or if she isn't a literal biological character.

it's really creepy that when the game goes out of its way to say "Hey this character is adamantly described as a child and is also related to Hornet due to GMS creating/evolving both the Weavers and Lace", people will do a ton of mental gymnastics over it to justify putting Hornet and Lace together. It's something I'd expect to see in some gross anime conversation, not for silksong. It'd be one thing if people were just ignorant about it and you had to do some like Path of Pain type shit to realize it, but Lace is referred to as a child within the first hour of the game, that alone should be a turnoff for most normal people. It SHOULD be easy for people to see "oh, Lace is a child? ok" and drop the idea
"She may look and act like a child but shes actually over a thousand years old, so its legal i swear!"
disgusting

[mental vale]

The mechanics on weather she was constructed in a way that will allow her to gain mental maturity seems to be up in the air- She certainly acts imature, but acting immature in the way that adults call you a child- is something that adults wind up doing too.

Hornet seems to be somewhat on the same boat too, between Shakra calling her "Child wielding needle" and characters like Nuu having different first impressions

[wispy urchin]

being described as a child with looks and a mind to match doesnt register as an insult

[tender thorn]

I wanna do nothing more than discuss more on this but I have work 😭
I'll get back to this when I clock out

[wispy urchin]

lace calling herself a child?

[wispy urchin]

its 1am i will be honk shooin

[tender thorn]

You'll probably wake up by the time I clock out

It's 11:30 am for me

[mental vale]

She also called herself "A False life" she seems to have poor self-esteem despite the taunting,

[wispy urchin]

because it is

[gusty vapor]

Tbh theres a theory that our mindset is tailored to our lifespan

[wispy urchin]

she was designed to be the child for gms

[gusty vapor]

So anything living past our average age would throw us off rly badly

Like a dog living 40 years would mess with their memories the same way itd do a human for 200

[wispy urchin]

?

"She may look and act like a child but shes actually over a thousand years old, so its legal i swear!"

she definitely has arrested development

[mental vale]

I think the idea is that Lace has fallen into a trap of not being able to see the value or potential of herself beyond what she was shaped to be- This goes directly towards seeing herself as a "False" life but i can see it also see it manifesting in a rage about feeling like she could never grow or age or move past the circumstances of her situation. I don't see why she can't be wrong about that too

[wispy urchin]

a false life because she was designed to be a set age and probably unable to grow

[gusty vapor]

Did she even get a childhood

[eager ermine]

Joni in hk lowk too goated for just not being a lifeblood zombie

[gusty vapor]

Or was she hunting from spawn

[eager ermine]

after having that much

[wispy urchin]

its like making a npc in a video game

thats not a life

you just spawned someone into existence who is unable to change or grow

even if i say yea the game is vague on whether she can grow as a person or not that still means shes a child

why do we have to ship everything in existence

even if it was vague i still wouldnt want to ship them for the possibility shes a child

[mental vale]

She is an NPC in a video litterally (Like everyone else) but I think the idea is in lore- in the story she can't be TRUELY lifeless.

Hollow Knight Spoilers
After all- ||The king's goal of making No mind to think, Know Soul to feel- was ultimatley fruitless and wrong- the vessels, even the hollow knight, DO feel and think- that's how the Radiance Took over, how The White King failed, that's why what he did the the Vessels was messed up.|| Why are willing to believe that Lace is fated to never change grow? I think it goes against the spirit of Hollow Knight and Silksong's overall theme to believe that Lace is just a tool or just what she was made to be.

[wispy urchin]

its not against the spirit even if she can or cannot grow shes still a child

and why cant we celebrate pre existing relationships, why do we ship. shipping is disgusting

especially if your the receiving end holy shit

[lapis geode]

Is this "mental block" or "limits" you set based on that possibility that made it misfit for such ship.
Or you just want to focus on the fact that GMS practice is one to blame and we shouldn't focus on
fantasizing who is with whom?

[lethal burrow]

designed implies a level of intent and agency which I'm not sure we can confidently claim with the whole weird sleep waking up situation grandmother silk is it

[mental vale]

Huh?? Shipping is generally not something someone is the "Recieving end of" as it generally among fictional characters instead. Also it doesn't overide enjoying the core experience without shipping- This feels like a "So you hate waffles" type falacy, that's a different sentence.

[lapis geode]

One main point of shipping is that it's just spawn upon your mind.
We may discuss which one feels inappropriate and function as warning (like many
media I see of pdf practice, which ofc being portrayed in villain side)

But at the end, no one can't control it

[mental vale]

Also like- People who write fanart and fanfic are not dirrectly hired by Team Cherry nor obligated to follow a script for what's canonically acurate anyways

[lapis geode]

I can assure since I have friend that has... very peculiar taste

[wispy urchin]

ive been shipped with people i dont like or other friends, its disgusting as hell but thats a side tangent

[lapis geode]

Exactly

[wispy urchin]

never said this

shes still a child

[lapis geode]

I see ...
So this is about moral value things

[wispy urchin]

because whether or not she can grow as a person she was originally made as one and still has the mind of one

[mental vale]

That sounds less like shipping and more like gossip.

[wispy urchin]

it doesnt matter if shes a quadrillion years old

thats a pdf argument

[lethal burrow]

this is not a Roblox lobby just say paedophile

[wispy urchin]

youve never had people go "why dont you two date already" or other various gross shit

[lapis geode]

Our point is, you may disagree.
But it's kinda sad that your enjoyment is determined whether
people besides you have such peculiar ship and you feels disgusted

[lethal burrow]

or pedo if the full word is too much effort (I can sympathize I have dyslexia)

[wispy urchin]

not as a child but that still is the same thing pretty much

[wispy urchin]

my enjoyment? what are you yappin about

i said its disgusting that people ship them because lace is a child

i also said i dislike ships but thats a side tangent

[lapis geode]

I mean why you feel disgusted?
THey KNOW Lace is a child.

They NEVER stop.

[raven condor]

Is grand mother silk the only new higher being introduced in Silksong? Seems like even in HK base game we had wayyy more introduced. Unn, Pale King, Radiance, and lifeblood boi. If not then who else?

[lethal burrow]

also not to be that guy, but this has long pasted form a lore argument to a morel one, I think it would be better for everyone, including you too if you took this to DM's or even just general discussion

[lethal burrow]

uhhhh, I don't think other new ones were introduced?

[wispy urchin]

they dont know lace is a child thats the whole argument

[raven condor]

It’s just the one right?

[wispy urchin]

i copy and pasted my rant from earlier that points out in multiple places where shes referred to as a child

[tiny socket]

Mythical mother flea?

[wispy urchin]

skarrsinger karmelita, the coral king guy, naylethehsadoisaj however you spell it

[lethal burrow]

from what I recall all the higher beings we know about are
unn,
white lady,
nightmare heart
radiance
pale king
grandmother silk
shade lord
gods of thunder and rain (maybe)
Lifeblood entity (maybe)

[wispy urchin]

probably other ones i cant think of

[tiny socket]

They aren’t higher beings

[lapis geode]

I doubt that.
Most player I met still ship them after knowing it.

What I mean is, just chill.?...
Neither of us can't stop what inside people's mind.

I gives up long time ago and realize, it's just silly to argue

[lethal burrow]

they are not higher beings

[raven condor]

We don’t ever see that one to confirm higher being status

[raven condor]

I’m just talking base game for each

[wispy urchin]

and you dont see that as disgusting?

[feral token]

Nyleth probably is the closest thing we get to a new higher being besides gms

[lethal burrow]

I encourage you to do that, but please not here.

I don't mean to be a rules freak type of guy right now, but like this discussion is sort of consuming the whole channel rn

[lapis geode]

what about Greyroot?
That one might be higher beings, albeit not a pale one

[raven condor]

Nyleth might be one, but I’m going with no.

[lethal burrow]

They are just the witch of the woods

[lapis geode]

I see it absolutely disturbing.

[raven condor]

Greyroot seems to be attempting to create a higher being, but isn’t one themselves

[lapis geode]

WHAT???
With such strong curse?

Nahhhh...

[wispy urchin]

how are they still alive then? the citadel fell within a mortal bugs lifetime yet they are alive since before

[tiny socket]

Is Mr Mushroom high?

[lethal burrow]

I don't think twisted child is intentional o her part tbh.

They probably just wanted the parasite to overcome a normal strength bug

[lethal burrow]

yea of course he is he's in the air

[tiny socket]

Nyleth and crust king are gone/dead

[wispy urchin]

true

[tiny socket]

Karmelita is also on her deathbed

[wispy urchin]

shes still alive tho

[raven condor]

Dung defender is alive in hallownest. Just seems like some bugs have a naturally longer life span.

[wispy urchin]

shes also huge now

[lethal burrow]

do you belie the power of a witch?

[lapis geode]

What can be clasified as higher being?
The ability to create life? Element? Or they need to create sentient being?

We know Nyleth is the one creating Sherwood so it's save to say Nyleth is probably one

[wispy urchin]

the timeline is different

[lapis geode]

Fair point

[tiny socket]

Besides lifespan is a poor measure of a higher being considering how variable it’s been shown

[lethal burrow]

ye that does not equal her being a higher being though

[raven condor]

Still survived super long after the fall of Hallownest.

[tiny socket]

Elder bug for example is younger than like 60% of the hallownest characters

[feral token]

Potential included Lace and Hornet might count

[lethal burrow]

higher being is just a fancy way of saying a God tbh

[wispy urchin]

not exactly

[wispy urchin]

true

[lapis geode]

Yeah.. but when we can draw the line?

[raven condor]

Quirrel gets that old age the second the mask comes off, but dung defender still fighting his heart out

[tiny socket]

The big flea is pretty godlike

[wispy urchin]

i dont think lace counts but hornet definitely

[lethal burrow]

team charry just said it's a being of extraordinary power or something if I remember correct

[wispy urchin]

hornet is a demigod

[lethal burrow]

She counts herself as a higher being at least

[wispy urchin]

weavers were higher beings and referred to as such no?

[lethal burrow]

They're never called that

[lapis geode]

Aha!
Weavers is not higher being albeit quite powerful.

[wispy urchin]

they were referred to as having extraordinary capabilities/powers

[raven condor]

They are constructs. Demigods at the absolute most, but nah. Pure vessel could take em out

[tiny socket]

Is the shade lord specifically the void within the knight? Or is it the overall void repurposed by the knight

[feral token]

I think higher beings is larger group than this, most of the vessels also count if we take the Kings Pass tablets at their word

[lapis geode]

Oi.
That vessel is also extraordinay by itself.
Born by 2 pair of Pale being + void power + trained with Buzzsaw

But stil, not a god

[wispy urchin]

we kinda came to the consensus earlier that it was an amalgamation of void earlier not nescessarily the knight or something, but the true answer is we dont know

[tiny socket]

I’m guessing the void going against the shade lords intentions in sotv was just artistic license then?

[raven condor]

The void actually harms its higher being status in this case. Hollowed out the carcass to live within. Still, prime hollow knight stomps any known weaver.

[wispy urchin]

sotv?

[tiny socket]

Silksong true ending

[wispy urchin]

wdym going against the shade lords intentions

im pretty sure the reason the void saved hornet was because she helped the knight kill radiance

[tiny socket]

The void tendrils attack hornet, and the shade lord fights them off. Doesn’t that show the void isn’t a unified entity?

[lethal burrow]

shade lord is a shade that is a lord :>

[wispy urchin]

the shade lord fights them off???

[lapis geode]

From what I can conclude with how little the info we got a higher being at least able to:

1. Create lives
2. Change terrain and vegetation
3. Have power that related to extraordinary thing (Soul or gaze into future)

Problem is, The void seems not either three. They're just make everything they touch
to be voided, emptied, soulless...

[lethal burrow]

well... the knight does

[wispy urchin]

bro what

[tiny socket]

The void is just soup

[lethal burrow]

Which is the same thing probably

[feral token]

I think the only real requirement we know for higher beings is the ability to channel soul in some way. I think the creator beings are a step up from that

[lethal burrow]

how does the white lady fit into this

[raven condor]

I actually love that pure vessel and first sinner actually share quite a bit in common move set wise. The focus and rune rage abilities are very similar, and both focus/ bind during the fight. Good stuff. Also love the similar color palette.

[lethal burrow]

groal the great my favourite higher being

[lapis geode]

She has extraordinary power.
Giving your niece a piece of lower miles away through dream is extraordiary, no?

[tiny socket]

Most of the higher beings seem to focus their goals around civilisations, which feels a bit like drawing power from worship

[feral token]

Honestly he might count, the only other mortal bug to pull that off was Soul Master and look how that went

[lapis geode]

AND IT'S PHYSICAL FLOWER.

[tiny socket]

Soul master actually manipulates soul into a spell, groal just sorta spits shaman goop

[lapis geode]

In the end, the only thing that's common for all higher being
is being worshipped.

[tiny socket]

It does seem that sphericalness is a factor in soul use for non snails

[feral token]

Arguably more impressive. The only bugs we've seen capable of pulling soul from others to use in helpful ways are the Knight, Hornet, Shamans, Soul Master, and Groal

[wispy urchin]

the knight does theres no shade lord

[raven condor]

Soul master was a thousand times more skilled than groal

[tiny socket]

The shade lord is shown to be equivalent with the knight in the cutscene

[lapis geode]

??
There's brief flash of shade lord after the Knight helps her.

[raven condor]

Yet groal is like twice as difficult lol

[tiny socket]

Groals pretty easy, he just had lots of cronies

[feral token]

if soul master fought in a lake he would also be a nightmare

[wispy urchin]

that doesnt nescessarily mean that hes the shade lord, it could just be a reference for people who beat godhome as far as we know

[tiny socket]

Is groal haunted?

[feral token]

yeah

[raven condor]

I don’t think so. He is however, filled with hate for the citadel.

[lapis geode]

Wait, what?
I thought the maggot constantly cuts it?

[tiny socket]

Is there a reason that haunted entities are aggressive?

[wispy urchin]

no?

none of the other bugs in bilewater are

[raven condor]

They become task oriented, anything that stops them from doing there work causes them to lash out it seems

[wispy urchin]

gms mind controls them and reanimates them

[feral token]

maggots prevent healing, I'm pretty sure he has the strings when he dies

[raven condor]

Deep docks continues to toil endlessly despite the crumbling infrastructure

[lapis geode]

I see

[feral token]

double checked his death animation, he does give off the haunting strings when he explodes

[tiny socket]

Gms is asleep in the cradle, so the haunting seems fairly autonomous. I’m just curious why the haunted pilgrims are so aggressive to their non silky counterparts

[raven condor]

Would y’all rather be an underworks worker, or a deep docks worker?

[wispy urchin]

docks

[raven condor]

With the hellish heat?

[wispy urchin]

id rather chance dying to lava than cancer

[tiny socket]

Docks has a spa, and affordable resting

[wispy urchin]

that too

[feral token]

don't have to pay for docks benches and you get ppe

[lethal burrow]

you say that, but he had a lot more resources to work with.

A whole institution and helpers and the mountains of corpses to test on.

groal just had his swamp buddies and one dude trapped in their basement.

if we're being fair. I think he's more impressive.

[wispy urchin]

underdocks was a punishment

[raven condor]

Real. I was about to say “well soul master doesn’t have a snail shaman.” but then I remembered, he actually does have a snail shaman.

W groal

[limpid summit]

W groal ❤️

[tiny socket]

Speaking of snails, is there any explanation for Nuu’s origins?

[limpid summit]

No unfortunately

[feral token]

backpack

[raven condor]

Nothing is confirmed as of yet.

[limpid summit]

It seems like Team Cherry had a very specific idea for their HJ character and was like “make her Unn” last minute

I think soul master is more skilled than groal

He manages to teleport and use other minor spells as well as use his spell intelligently

[tiny socket]

Soul master is definitely more skilled than groal, but Groal made do with less resources

[limpid summit]

Groal just ate the spell

[raven condor]

Truly think huntress was gonna be in greymoor and give you the journal, but they swapped it for Nuu lol

[feral token]

GROAL MADE THIS VENGEFUL SPIRIT IN A SWAMP WITH A PILE OF MAGGOTS

[tiny socket]

Groal doesn’t use vengeful spirit, he just spits raw soul

[limpid summit]

I don’t even get why she’s named and looks like that

She’s the complete opposite of Unn

[raven condor]

He seems to use a variation of the vengeful spirit

[limpid summit]

You have this pushover HB with a daughter who just wants to kiss and kill everything

[dark rune]

if the hunters are removed from the rest of pharloom, what use do they have for rosaries?

[limpid summit]

The hunters?

[dark rune]

ant people

skarrs

[limpid summit]

Oh

[raven condor]

The hunter would fear Nuu if they ever met

[rose forge]

trading with eachother

[tiny socket]

Nuu is a random murder hobo backpacker, Unn probably kicked her out because she’s a girl kisser

[limpid summit]

Uhhh gameplay or they just adopted the currency as their own

[dark rune]

i guess

[wispy urchin]

wait if weavers were worshipped and had extraordinary powers then why arent they higher beings

[tiny socket]

Weavers weren’t worshipped, and their abilities were granted by gms

[dark rune]

and killed easier

[wispy urchin]

right and the 3 weaver figures you can give to the relic seeker arent items of worship?

[limpid summit]

Worshipping doesn’t make a HB just usually the mark of it

[wispy urchin]

praying to atla or other weavers for good health etc?

[tiny socket]

Those were made by the weavers weren’t they?

[feral token]

I think weavers had enough of a grasp of soul through silk manipulation that at least the best of them could count

[wispy urchin]

no?

[limpid summit]

They were very strong though

[raven condor]

They were strong and had decent numbers, they had some good skills, but aren’t quite powerful enough to be a higher being. One higher being could take over an entire kingdom, the first sinner alone can’t take over all of Pharloom and doesn’t have truly god like powers

[lethal burrow]

They definitely were worshipped

[feral token]

they were also skilled enough to navigate across the wastes

[lethal burrow]

The Weaver effigies make it clear enough

[wispy urchin]

for the longest time the weavers ran the citadel and kept gms asleep?

[tiny socket]

Right, I just double checked the wiki I was wrong

[raven condor]

When they had strength in numbers. GMS would destroy a single weaver in her prime it seems

Widow is an excellent example of how a weaver can be broken under the rule of a higher being. Weavers don’t have reality/mind warping powers comparable to higher beings.

[feral token]

And a husk can beat the shit out of the Knight if they wanted to, higher beings aren't invincible

[tiny socket]

Canonically false

[feral token]

Pale King just dies

[raven condor]

Yes, but they are more powerful lore wise.

[dark rune]

perhaps from working too much with the void

[tiny socket]

Pale king probably linked his life to the survival of Hallownest

[raven condor]

Weavers are strong, but don’t grant higher intelligence to all bugs under their thrall, further more the pale king was once a full Wyrm, which is so beyond any husk or weaver

[dark rune]

void is always happy to take a higher being

[feral token]

Fully counts Nyleth then

[tiny socket]

Who can say if pk died or just molted again

[raven condor]

Nyleth is a weird one. Seems possible she is a diminished higher being, but hard to tell

[dark rune]

i dont think he can do it a second time

[tiny socket]

His shell seems pretty hollow in the dream

[lapis geode]

Unn too

[dark rune]

it seems to me like she created life so i think she qualifies

[feral token]

She birthed all of Shellwood and every living plant in there, she's at least on par with Unn

[raven condor]

I would be fine calling her the weakest higher being we’ve seen.

[lapis geode]

Even compared to Mr.Mushroom?

[tiny socket]

Unn imagined green path into being though, Nyleth seems to just be a pretty powerful plant

[raven condor]

Her and unn seem very comparable. Unn’s domain stretches farther

[tiny socket]

Mr mushroom is the highest being

He’s both high and high

[lapis geode]

No, that's...
Hmm.....

He's high but that doesn't mean, he's higher being

[dark rune]

highest highest high being (because he can fly)

[tiny socket]

He’s certainly higher than the pk, and Unn

[raven condor]

He is by far the most powerful. Nyleth is dead he is not. Pale king is dead. Mr mushroom? Still kicking. He has witnessed the rise and fall of it all. And still stands, and still witnesses.

[tiny socket]

I mean, assuming higher beings are related to civilisation, it makes sense that mr mushroom observes the fall of civilisation

[lapis geode]

And still high.
Like brooo.. it's been 7 years and dude seems not being sober AT ALL

[feral token]

Hey if Hornet knows who he is

[dark rune]

i doubt little old pale king ever tried launching himself that high in the cave

[lapis geode]

Imagine we able to met a higher being
that is the source of Blue Blud.

[tiny socket]

It’s hard to tell if dreams exist on a higher or lower plane, so it could be argued that mm is lower than radiance and pk

[lethal burrow]

what did she actually do

[lapis geode]

Creating Sherwood and its citizen

[feral token]

refer to my previous statement

[lethal burrow]

sorce

[tiny socket]

Nyleth is described as the heart of shellwood, so it could just be she’s a seed for a really big tree

[raven condor]

But then would we count sister splinter lol, the lore directly states she took over after Nyleth and is the reason the stick bugs exist

[lethal burrow]

could also just be non literal

[lapis geode]

Took over.
She didn't create it herself

[lethal burrow]

idk the way I see things nyleth could've just been a really big flower who helped to keep the peace

[mortal birch]

i hate her

i hate her so much her fight is so bs

[tiny socket]

That makes sense in regards to the other heart bosses

[lapis geode]

Bro hate her just because the fight is hard.
Use clawline bruhh

(don't worry, I HATE her more)

[tiny socket]

I’m a big fan of the floor, so I can see where you’re coming from

[lethal burrow]

conch cutter go brrrr

[lethal burrow]

she learned from the school of radiant markoth

[feral token]

Seth and the Shamans refer to Nyleth as the first seed of Shellwood, so all the living flowers are her descendants at least

[raven condor]

Actually rather enjoy Nyleth as a boss

[tiny socket]

She’s an easy fight but like crusty and the clovers, it’s a bit of a letdown

[mortal birch]

she seems to parllel Unn rather closely

[lethal burrow]

can you get the dialogue?

[mortal birch]

I struggled on her more than any of the other 3 hearts

she took me like several hours

[feral token]

Seth dialogue

[lethal burrow]

crusty was a welcome easy fight because of the gauntlet though.

[raven condor]

Do think Nyleth, Khann, and clover dancers need a buff. Karmelita = 10/10

[mortal birch]

i wonder how seth came into service

i mean what did a flower want with a non plant bug

or did he come around after she died

[lethal burrow]

I guess she was there since the start of the forest then

[tiny socket]

Considering that most higher beings seem to be the progenitors of their respective concepts, I feel Nyleth doesn’t qualify as a higher being. Nyleth was likely the leader of shellwood, rather than the origin of trees and pollen bugs

[lethal burrow]

Since she was the first seed produced by the wood, it makes sense that she would be the oldest and biggest flower

[feral token]

first seed could also refer to the first plant grown in the wood, before it was one

[tiny socket]

Unn imagined green path into existence, which feels more aligned with the higher being concept then being a seed for a forest

[raven condor]

Seems to play a similar role to quirrel, granted immortality and tasked with servitude. She chose a normal bug because it ain’t like those floaty flowers can do the job

[mortal birch]

i feel both are two sides of the same creation coin

[lethal burrow]

true but I don't really know how the very not whitepetel looking plant growth like the hanging trees could've come from her

[raven condor]

Ehhhh, Unn seems slightly higher on the higher being scale, she worked within the dream realm to craft her denizens

[tiny socket]

There’s hardly enough correspondence to come to a conclusive conclusion to this conversation

[mortal birch]

We need dlc on all four kingdoms if i'm being so fr

[lethal burrow]

guys..,, grandmother silk is so fucking weird. I hate it.
What do you mean you were asleep but you commanded the people and made new daughters and cast one of them aside and just woke up because somebody got near you and-

[mortal birch]

or sub kingdoms

[feral token]

I think everyone here has a different lower floor on what Higher Beings are

[mortal birch]

You guys aren't gonna be happy when you hear what I think Pale Stag is

[quick thorn]

I wanna pet this thing
anyway, this is probably a moth type bug right? Just unrelated to The Radiance
also it's probably a higher being, lol

[lethal burrow]

bird

[feral token]

Pale in the name, on par with Pale King obvi

[quick thorn]

there are no birds, just bugs. even the craws are "crawbugs" and cloak their true forms

[tiny socket]

Gms seems geographically higher than pk, so I’d say out of all the higher beings, pk is probably the lowest floor

[lethal burrow]

idk it could be a bird

[mortal birch]

moth fly

[tiny socket]

I’m sticking with the idea that the mythical mother flea is a higher being, and there should be a fleaLC

[mortal birch]

not a moth not a bird. fluffy

[tiny socket]

The fayforn is at least more powerful than the weavers if the lore tablet in mount fay is an indication

[wide smelt]

I was so fucking relieved when I got up there

[mortal birch]

Are we ready to admit Kratt is a higher being yet?

[wide smelt]

I fucked up on the harpoon shots so many times because I didn't know I had to not touch control after harpoon.

[tiny socket]

Kratt is lower than the void

[quick thorn]

whos kratt again?

[mortal birch]

Creep flea

[tiny socket]

The weird flea with the spa

I think the Fayforn should be the judge of the court of craws as it is clearly the biggest bird bug thing

[mortal birch]

How did the craw father come to power

where is the crawfather lore

[quick thorn]

yeah he does just kinda exist, leader of the craw tribe

[tiny socket]

He’s the biggest bird

[quick thorn]

hes also the smartest

[mortal birch]

Ok so apperently he's like a judge kind of

court of craws, craw jurors and the hunters journal says

[quick thorn]

well obviously, it's a sort of supreme court type deal, with the leader as the judge

[mortal birch]

i was thinking more mafia boss with the name and summons

[tiny socket]

Winner takes their life sorta court