sk-lore

[lethal burrow]

Mount fay probably

[silk dirge]

when are we getting a hornet 2 mod for hollow knight with her at full power

[lethal burrow]

let's see you do better

[silk dirge]

you are never getting kings brand now

cogflies go

[silver spire]

alright, item spam GO

[lethal burrow]

https://tenor.com/view/go-my-scarab-go-my-cogfly-cogfly-silksong-whatever-go-my-cogfly-gif-3567425369574449808

[proud swan]

Well, theres the cold lake just above the coral tower and it really could have been from there. Im guessing maybe the tower made some kind of waterfall like structure?

[silver spire]

also the resources needed for architect are cheap af

[lethal burrow]

Perhaps it has to do with the weird platform

[proud swan]

Also weavers built lots of shit in Mount fay and probably disrupted water flow

[proud swan]

Yes. Thats what I wanted to hear from you

[silk dirge]

yall will be saying shell shards are a bad mechanic and then pull that shit out

[lethal burrow]

It's a crowd pleaser

[proud swan]

We are BUSTING that platform lore

[silver spire]

i aint saying its a bad mechanic lmao

[silk dirge]

like if you want shell shards removed i dont think thats the video you want to show team cherry

[silver spire]

its cheap af to just buy shard bundles

[lethal burrow]

it's just spirit emblems but well implemented

[sinful nimbus]

Shellshards are fine just make it so you don't lose em upon dying

[silver spire]

you dont?

[silk dirge]

wait you do?

[lethal burrow]

You do if you use your tools

[silk dirge]

honestly i think they should just remove the cap on shell shards

[silver spire]

oh fair

[silk dirge]

i dont think it has any reason to exist

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah if you get stuck on a boss you can't use tools without grinding

Why does this game have so much grinding who told TC this was fun

[silver spire]

yea thats the only annoying part, it is more realistic, but the cap makes so many shell shards g go waste

[sinful nimbus]

It incentivizes you to use your tools

[proud swan]

Architects is rich people coded. You paying so you won't do much. Wanderers unit. 'Tis our blade that comes from tradition

[lethal burrow]

that would encourage grinding them out though or hoarding your tool usage.

Psychologically if there's a cap then you feel like you're missing out or wasting shards you pick up if you aren't using them, so I understand it from a design standpoint, it's to encourage tool usage

[silk dirge]

i mean its realistic until you realize hornet can hold infinite rosaries

[silver spire]

wanderer's and hunters are the purest form of silksong gameplay fr fr fr fr

[sinful nimbus]

She just wears a million necklaces

[proud swan]

You know

[silver spire]

reaper's is the strategist type, orrrr they just want the wide pogo

[silk dirge]

the drip

[silver spire]

beast is the masochist who does linear algebra in their head

[lethal burrow]

reaper is "do the dash attack and then pogo and then you feel cool"

[silver spire]

witch is that one guy who keeps getting back with their toxic ex

[sinful nimbus]

Who mains crests 💔 Just swap between them when you feel like it

[lethal burrow]

That's why I always switch to beast when I'm platforming

[silver spire]

i don't like the down pogo on some of them

[silk dirge]

thats too much for my terraria brain

[sinful nimbus]

Beast pogo is fun

[lethal burrow]

also needle strike storage ❤️

[silk dirge]

im used to staying in one class for an entire playthrough

[sinful nimbus]

Why would you do that

Terraria combat is already bland and boring and you decided to restrict yourself more?

[silk dirge]

literally like everyone does lol

[lethal burrow]

It's fun to feel more defined and definitive

"this is MY build the one I like my favourite one"

[sinful nimbus]

I wouldn't know since I'm not a disgusting terraria player

[silk dirge]

you will never know mod of redemption then

sad

[lethal burrow]

This implies playing terraria itself is the sin in need of redemption from the mod

[edgy barn]

It is also heavely encouraged by the game itself. Specially in mods.

[sinful nimbus]

This is true

Though no mod can save you

[silk dirge]

ok but its actually so peak

[edgy barn]

I still can't believe we got Silksong before Terraria 1.4.5

[silk dirge]

mod of redemption is actually goated

[edgy barn]

Like how the fuck

[silk dirge]

for some reason most people dont know any terraria mods except calamity

calamity is cool but its overrated as fuck

its actually going to be goated now that they got rid of fabsol tho

[sinful nimbus]

Terraria mods are like trying to build a skyscraper on top of the sinking titanic

[silk dirge]

youll never understand me smh

[timber pond]

Never understands anyone really😂

[edgy nebula]

skynx is so cool

[sinful nimbus]

true...

[edgy nebula]

i was doing queens egg for my 2nd playthrough and hornet asked who styx talked to while she was gone and he said not to worry, so that may be styx feeding skynx silkeaters confirmation

[ashen moon]

I was confused when I got here, what does this place mean?

[lethal burrow]

gooooood question

[timber pond]

Themselves, if the masks in the secret room above em are anything to go by

[timber pond]

Might be the Snail Shamans old village

[teal drift]

do we suspect that we will get a real craggler bossfight

[silk dirge]

anyways speaking of terraria i walked into the house im renting with friends for the rest of college yesterday to 2 of my friends arguing over if terraria is a roguelike 😭

[proud swan]

Ok so you guys think First Sinner was alive? I do not think we fought her in memory. We only access the memory after binding her. She also calls us "half-spawn" so it can't be a slab or something. Are all bound weavers alive, but dormant?

[silk dirge]

one of my friends was genuinely arguing terraria on hardcore mode is like a roguelike and he was actually making good points lol

like he wasnt wrong it has a lot of similarities

[small gate]

First sinner was definitely alive and bound

[silk dirge]

nah shes just testing you

also wait does first sinner kill you on steel soul

[lethal burrow]

her mind dialogue says "wait and hate. ...wait and die...."

[lethal burrow]

no

[silk dirge]

i assume shakra and garmond dont kill you on steel soul either

[proud swan]

It really doesn't

What it does say is "I did not wane" "I did not forget"

Also, "Sustained by fury"

[small gate]

It reallg doesnt

[lethal burrow]

shhh

[proud swan]

Unless you mean "wait and die"

[small gate]

Its trapped andnangry

[lethal burrow]

SHHHHHHH

[ashen moon]

which bosses do kill you on steel soul?

[small gate]

Every

[lethal burrow]

The ones that leave a cocoon

[proud swan]

first sinner was alive. we just killed ancient history like it was nothing. pale beings really are the worst

[lethal burrow]

What's up with what she looks like before the fight then? Are they just bound or something?

if so, then who bound all the other Weavers

[proud swan]

Someone suggested they are like silk mummies

[lethal burrow]

Is this what we're doing now we're just putting silk in front of words

[proud swan]

Maybe they're the equivalent of dehydrated somehow? Like, GMS took all their silk, so they stay alive but unable to do anything else

[proud swan]

Yeah my bad

[edgy nebula]

yeah thats my silk theory

[mental roost]

everything except shakra, garmond, and memories (first sinner, verdania etc.)

[proud swan]

silk comment bro

[lethal burrow]

massive silkers

[ebon silo]

Prime Mantis tribe vs Prime Skarr tribe who winning 🗣️🗣️

[proud swan]

do we see this somewhere else in the game? dont look like pins or nails

[lethal burrow]

skarr seem to be the larger group by a good margin

[ashen moon]

yeah that's what I was thinking

[edgy nebula]

they seem like realistic needles, probably a traditional weapon of the weavers

[lethal burrow]

They remind me of grandmother silks needles

[ebon silo]

Boss numbers mantis has the upper hand though the skarr has more types

[proud swan]

Thats it!!

[lethal burrow]

Are we including the traitor tribe in this or not?

[proud swan]

really similar

[edgy nebula]

remember the good ol days before ss when we though hornet was gonna transform into phantom

[ebon silo]

Prime Skarr so I think no traitors? All united assuming because of karmelita

[lethal burrow]

I mean for the mantis with the traitor Lord

[ebon silo]

Oh yeah traitor lord included

[craggy smelt]

hadn't heard that - I was worried lace was going to turn into phantom and I'd gotten spoiled on that form

[timber pond]

It sounds like they bound themselves awaiting someone to subsumed GMS

They were they weavers who stayed behind as they said

Bassicaly them fleeing and searching for a chosen child was like Plan B probably

[ebon silo]

So it's 3 mantis lords and a traitor lord up against karmelita who fought hornet and could rival her while the army have to fight ground and air and even underground

[timber pond]

Ants would win because they have less Honor when fighting

Bitches use traps and shit

[ebon silo]

But I think if we go battlefieldwise think skarr wins because of sheer numbers however for all 4 lords vs karmelita and her bodyguards idk

[teal drift]

yeah skarr as a whole are way bigger than mantuses

[ebon silo]

Not to mention endless ant invasion in the mantises homeland they would surely starve or can't sleep because of ants crawling everywhere

[teal drift]

I think whether the traitor lord is infected would determine the 4 siblings vs Karmelita and bodyguards

[ebon silo]

Karmelita did manage to rival hornet though buttttt

[teal drift]

without infection i think Karm crushes their ass, with infection I think shes getting crushed

[ashen moon]

I think without traitor Lord then karmelita wins but with traitor lord it'll be favored towards Mantis

[teal drift]

tbh didnt karmelita manage to do even better than hornet. Girlie was singing and dancing the whole time.

[ebon silo]

Not unless karmelita wins the battlefield and overwhelms them but that's for another story

[chilly gyro]

Is their a reason why the wevers found in Silksong have an opening on the top of their masks while Hollow Knight weavers have enclosed masks?

[teal drift]

isn't FS the only one with the opening on top>

[ebon silo]

That was just from the first sinner

First sinners mask look like a defect because of his original state but idk

[chilly gyro]

Another thing I noticed that that the weavers of Pharloom seem to have a spiky chest area. Is that also just First sinner? Like how Widow is the only weaver with actual arms instead of just legs?

[teal drift]

I think FS' head hole would be considered a disfigurement or disability

it may indicate she's in an earlier stage of evolution or smth

[ebon silo]

It's an outnumbered fight it's 4v3 and karmelitas bodyguards aren't even bosses soo ehh

And karmelita would surely not play fair considering the skarr doenst either

[chilly gyro]

In the cutscene we see what looks like the first sinner being evolved or transformed from a common spider by GMC herself. So maybe that’s just what the first “generation” of weavers look like.

[teal drift]

I think all 4 of them could beat karm but its a bit tricky

[ebon silo]

I think some weavers just have different variants like widow has 4 legs and 2 arms she uses her arms to like sprint attack while first sinner I think has 6? And but uses those 2 legs as arms

I mean herrah herself doenst even look like a weaver

[chilly gyro]

Yeah, they never really explained why Herrah looked like that. Either she herself is only part weaver, or it’s for some completely unrelated reason like spider pregnancy or something.

[ebon silo]

Considering how fast karm is and some of the mantis lords moveset are off limits because we don't know if karm fights them in an open field

If it's an open field karm wins if it's a tight spaced yeah I think karm is getting overwhelmed

[chilly gyro]

Oh my gosh that makes so much more sense

[ebon silo]

Yeah I was right some of the weavers have different variants

It's crazy weavers weren't racist to eachother I think 🥀

[lethal burrow]

They just united against their mother

[golden olive]

so where's the evidence that pale king isn't a weaver

[chilly gyro]

With the fact their refered to as “beasts”, I think the other bugs make up for it.

[ebon silo]

Uhm...

The unmistakable large wyrm shell in kingdom's edge:

[golden olive]

he could just like BE part weaver tho 🤫 ☝️

[ebon silo]

okay this is bait

[lethal burrow]

I think it's another joke about harrah

[golden olive]

a little bit but look at all dat silk in his workshop

[sinful nimbus]

🗣️

[golden olive]

im just sayin its not out of the question with 100% certainty and TC made already made herrah a weaver without second thought so

[sinful nimbus]

They were both 25% weaver duh

[lyric rose]

Why doesn’t Sister Splinter drop the beast crest? SHE HAS GIANT CLAWS

[edgy nebula]

because she isnt dead

[muted lantern]

she is when you kill her

[lyric rose]

because she does

[silver spire]

sister splinter really just invaded shellwood 😭 no wonder shes so annoying thats literally in the lore

[lyric rose]

last I checked she doesn’t exit stage right like trobbio

[edgy nebula]

crests are made of a bugs essence and "invisible yoke) theyve built throughout a lifetime, she just didnt die by natural causes

[lyric rose]

She moved there to get away from here ex, the Savage Beastfly.

lol j k

[edgy nebula]

or some shit like that idk how crests work

[lyric rose]

I thought that was charms

[silver spire]

charms are a bit weirder

[edgy nebula]

charms form via like, big dreams or something

[silver spire]

they're artifacts made from the wishes or dreams of bugs, often made through their last dying wish

stuff such as joni's blessing, quickslash, etc.

[azure dirge]

Did nobody else notice the parallel between HK Charms and SK Wishes

[lyric rose]

The best example is Grubberfly’s Elegy, made by the grubfather in his sacrifice to let his children mature

[lyric rose]

?

[edgy nebula]

they can also form naturally

e.g deep focus

[azure dirge]

A lot of the wises have something close to a charm designed for them. But they don’t become charms. It’s a very specific thing they are called, and the accompanying symbols are also interesting. You are fulfilling wishes and such. Such wishes when they become strong enough, or upon death, would in theory become charms.

[lyric rose]

Yes, doubt anyone’s life’s work amounted to Heavy Blow

[azure dirge]

In a way hornet is preventing the creation of charms by fulfilling the wishes.

[silver spire]

what charm would the dark hearts quest create ...

guys dark hearts quest would have created an everbloom charm fr fr

[azure dirge]

That’s, actually possible.

[eternal sigil]

local weaver too angry to die

[azure dirge]

I wonder if charms can only be found by certain people though. Like Knight. Knight probably has an aptitude with charms because he’s a blank slate vessel.

[silk dirge]

ok nevermind wormways can take the original place of verdania

[azure dirge]

Versus Hornet who uses crests that alter her nature.

[silk dirge]

original verdania was going to be an aspid area 😭

yeah fuck that

[eternal sigil]

DLC announces Verdania 2

[silver spire]

oh heck nah, yea wormways is goated frfr

[eternal sigil]

(Found Verdania)

[azure dirge]

Hornet taking up wishes seems to have some significance though. It seems to do something important.

[eternal sigil]

The concept of wishes and wish granting appears to carry some kind of metaphysical importance in Pharloom. The druid speaks of this, and if I recall right Caretaker might

[azure dirge]

Yeah, there’s a few mentions of it, but wishes do also date back to HK and relate with charms.

[eternal sigil]

Or at least, promising Wishes being an important thing

[azure dirge]

So there is a power within wishes, potentially even minor ones.

[eternal sigil]

oh huh yeah, I had forgotten

Is the cut content lore about charms originating from unfulfilled wishes or the wishes of the dead still present in any way?

[dark rune]

did the snail shamans die putting hornet in the red memory? it certainly looks like they evaporated but idk

[azure dirge]

In pharloom we see Hornet completing and fulfilling wishes versus the knight who carries wishes within the form of charms.

[dark rune]

how are charms wishes?

[eternal sigil]

Might merit a look at which Wish quests grant charm-equivalent tools (blues and yellows). At minimum I can think of Pollip Pouch, which is made from a bunch of dead wasps

[azure dirge]

Doesn’t the charm lady mention that a strong desire or wish is what forms a charm.

[eternal sigil]

idk I don't remember

[azure dirge]

Charms are often formed from a strong desire or wish. Often that of a dying bug, or very powerful events or natural occurrences.

Most HK charms are the dying wish of a bug.

[dark rune]

hm ok

what exactly is the mark of pride?

[eternal sigil]

could Heirlooms count as some kind of charm? But maybe without power

[azure dirge]

Also why Hallownest has so many, since so many bugs with strong desires and wishes perished there.

[eternal sigil]

Most are tied to the final acts of powerful bugs

or especially strong displays of will

[azure dirge]

It could be the manifested desire of the pride of mantises, or a fallen mantis Warrior’s pride.

[dark rune]

yeah and its been dead for a long while, had a long time to accumulate

[azure dirge]

The mantises are very proud after all, to the point they can resist the radiance and expel any who accept it.

[dark rune]

ig so

[azure dirge]

Versus pharloom where the wishes are alive alongside their holders.

[eternal sigil]

I took it to be some kind of symbol of honor conferred by the mantises upon either skilled warriors or respected outlanders that gives them a mantis' reach/grace in striking blows

[dark rune]

its in a chest tho, right? it feels like its a reward set up by the tribe for anyone who beats the mantis lords

[dark rune]

it looks like that to me too

[azure dirge]

Quick Nail is interesting. Also the first charm you can get in the game, the bonus damage one at 1 hp.

That’s one of the clearest examples of one forming from a bugs last wish.

Dash masters and run masters also seem similar.

[dark rune]

it would be interesting if in act 3 if you hadnt found a single flea, youd find mooshka dead and just pick up the egg of flealia off of him.
killing the flea troupe would have several issues, tho, so this couldnt be added imo

ik flealia wasnt a wish per se but still

[azure dirge]

Yeah true. Egg of Flealia is interesting regardless. I think it’s purposeful that Hornet doesn’t use charms too, but tools.

[dark rune]

fits her hunter-y theme

i dont really see how they are much different tho

[azure dirge]

Yeah, also the fact she isn’t a blank slate or empty vessel too.

[edgy barn]

Sadly you need Fleatopia to even access Act 3 in the first place

[azure dirge]

There are some differences. Like Hornet has a lot of base traits, and less slots compared to Knight for things.

[dark rune]

oh right that too

[azure dirge]

Hornet doesn’t need charms to run or dash down.

[dark rune]

but on the other side, you need notches to put them on and they both do wonky stuff

[azure dirge]

And her crests.

[dark rune]

it partially feels like the biggest difference is what they decided to call them

[azure dirge]

Yeah. Hornet uses memory lockets instead of charm notches, which is interesting.

[hazy meadow]

heyyyyy question

so yknow how hallownests whole bit is giving bugs higher thought. if you were to leave you'd lose that higher thought n all.

[azure dirge]

Hornet basically uses memories and the accrued experience of others to augment her base nature.

[hazy meadow]

how did hornet not, forget. while being transported to pharloom

[azure dirge]

PK basically could increase the level of thought of bugs and their intelligence even elevating lesser bugs to a higher status. Hornet is also a wyrm, and wasn’t out there as long as Knight and some others were.

[edgy barn]

Her higher thought is inherent to her and not granted by an external force.

[dark rune]

shes part higher being, it also seems some bugs already have higher minds

[silver spire]

SIDENOTE, team cherry should make it so that if you make it all the way up to the exploding rock in beastfly 2 and get it to fall down, it should be an instakill

[azure dirge]

The wastes erode away will and focus, but if you get to where you are going fast enough you should be fine. Hornet was also weakened at the beginning of SK from being captured, caged, and dragged through the wastes.

[dark rune]

perhaps the seal around her cage actually helped her

[azure dirge]

You are saying if you didn’t use it on fourth chorus you should be allowed to use it on Beastfly?

[hazy meadow]

i snee.

[azure dirge]

That’s also possible. Hornet also has silk to store soul too, which a physical vessel for it might help.

[dark rune]

dont you have to use it on fourth chorus?

[azure dirge]

No

[silver spire]

ya 😄

i tried it on beastfly, but it ended up killing me instead 😭

[silver spire]

4th chorus doesnt take that long even without the rock

[hazy meadow]

i am also just like, thinking abt it bc of uh, pharloom n all... i dont think has a wyrm corpse within its walls n all

[dark rune]

was under the impression that that is the only way to beat him

[hazy meadow]

so is like. pharloom just special compared to hallownest

[dark rune]

wdym

[hazy meadow]

is gsm's influence enough?

[azure dirge]

Pale King essentially lied a bit

There are many other nests aside from Hallownest and Pharloom.

Even the pilgrims are coming from all sorts of other places that previous pharloom residents migrated away to at some point.

[dark rune]

it seems he thought hallownest would last forever, while others died out

lying in a sense, but not exactly intending to?

[azure dirge]

Other nests also are a bit rare.

[hazy meadow]

im writing a media review on hk/ss so im like, having to go thru the lore

[azure dirge]

I mean even the Grimm Troupe confirms that Hallownest isn’t unique.

Godseekers too.

[hazy meadow]

mossbag's mostly complete lore vid is great but like. its not got the stuff from ss so im having to cross reference a lot

[azure dirge]

Grimm troupe goes to fallen kingdoms to collect their embers. Suggests there are many other kingdoms out there, and many to fall.

[hazy meadow]

nods nods.

[azure dirge]

Godseekers came from elsewhere as well.

[hazy meadow]

i wonder if pharloom qualifies LOL

[dark rune]

wonder what happens when there arent any more to collect

[dark rune]

might after act 3 starts

[azure dirge]

Steel beings also came from elsewhere, and the everbloom also comes from a distant land.

[azure dirge]

Good question.

[hazy meadow]

mm land of storms

[azure dirge]

I don’t think it does because a lot of people do survive act 3.

[hazy meadow]

i imagine if there arent any more kingdoms to grab flames from they go into hibernation

[edgy barn]

I mean kingdoms will always rise and fall unless a complete apocalypse happens

[hazy meadow]

something something sleeping gods

[azure dirge]

They also seem to just appear to where a new source appears

[hazy meadow]

that begs the question: are there only so many higher beings in the world? will they die out at some point?

[azure dirge]

They probably aren’t constrained by normal time

[dark rune]

id personally like to see a dlc where we get silksong prequel cutscenes and stuff. like not super far back, but showing what happened to THK and how hornet got captured

[azure dirge]

It’s possible more can always be born.

[hazy meadow]

we dont know how they're born so perhaps

[edgy barn]

DNM is canon, THK died in the black egg

[dark rune]

big vessel explanation would be nice

[azure dirge]

In theory Knight does become a higher being, maybe something fate more actually as Shadelord.

Hornet also could become one.

[hazy meadow]

DNM is one of the canon endings, but ETV is also a canon ending

[dark rune]

have you beaten act 3

[azure dirge]

Most higher beings seem difficult to kill, gms could only be killed by void or Hornet usurping her through binding.

[edgy barn]

I have 100℅ the game and beaten lost lace

[dark rune]

ok then you should know we get a shade lord vine boom

[hazy meadow]

the biref flash of the shadelord over the knight's shade... ETV

[azure dirge]

ETV is like 100% canon due to shadelord appearing. We don’t know how much of DNM is canon exactly though. Since it depends on how ETV and DNM were mixed together.

[hazy meadow]

pointing at the knight: that guy is NOT hollow.

[dark rune]

ik this is confirmation bias but out of the two dead higher beings weve seen its been void both times

[azure dirge]

After all shadelord can only appear due to being focused by the focus crest on the godtuner.

[edgy barn]

I don't agree with the reasoning but I despise ending canonicity discussion. I also don't think DNM is the correct canon ending anyways, that comment was a joke.

[azure dirge]

Yeah. Radiance also couldn’t really be killed outside of void.

[hazy meadow]

i think team cherry made it that way so that either can be the ending

[azure dirge]

It kinda seems like higher beings need specific conditions to die or void.

[dark rune]

oh wait 3. im including gms btw

forgot wadiance

[silver spire]

pharloom bay dlc, please team cherry

[hazy meadow]

void is like. the reality check for higher beings

something something "you can't defeat me" "no, but it can" "[horrid void screeching noises]"

[dark rune]

i have a theory that it kills wyrms that go too deep, consumes them, and expands the abyss

[azure dirge]

There’s an issue with this line of logic though, since shadelord introduces an overwhelming skew to ETV being canon.

[azure dirge]

Wyrms might be a bit resistant to it

Maybe because they pass close to it constantly.

[hazy meadow]

how so

[dark rune]

shade lord vine boom

[azure dirge]

Because DNM events can occur on the path to ETV, but shadelord hard requires a lot of the godholm stuff because of how Shadelord is created.

Because shadelord appears and the shadelord attacks are used it means the godtuner had to have focused the shades.

It’s a lot of very specific lore there on why and how that happens.

[hazy meadow]

yeah

[dark rune]

what year did TC say the "all endings are canon" thing

[hazy meadow]

the way i view it though: they used the shadelord attacks for the void tendrils for sake of clarity (slapping void with void isn't very visually clear)
but the knight still remains their shade for the most part, its hinting that both could've happened, dependent on what ending YOU got

[azure dirge]

The siblings being able to form into shadelord makes ETV more likely overall, and ETV checks all the requirements of what we know, versus dnm which doesn’t explain shadelord appearance at all.

[hazy meadow]

like, you could've killed radience in DNM (hence knight shade, its probably the ending most people got)

but for those who went the extra mile and got ETV you get a funny shadelord appearance

[azure dirge]

That’s a meta answer though. If knight appears again what answer is going to remain the actual answer?

[hazy meadow]

the real question begs: what the hell happened to hallownest post ETV. is it okay?

[azure dirge]

Shadelord has appeared in canon.

[hazy meadow]

we wait for team cherry to give us answers

[azure dirge]

Well, considering shadelord saved Hornet and Lace it seems it is still the knight.

[hazy meadow]

or they continue to give us the "oh both can exist thats why its that way :))"

laughs. that boy is not hollow

ANYWAY WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE TALKING ABOUT SILKSONG. SORRY.

[azure dirge]

I think the simplest answer is that 112% ETV is the canon ending.

Talking about what is more canon is talking about SK

:D

[craggy smelt]

which is wild, because it means THK is alive and well back in Hallownest

[hazy meadow]

or.

THK is dead (tried to protect hornet maybe)

[edgy barn]

Kind of fucked up that the knight killed the dreamers for nothing

[craggy smelt]

boo

[azure dirge]

THK could have died in other ways. THK not being with the shades does imply he may be alive.

Since he wouldn’t be a shade.

[craggy smelt]

THK gets kidnapped by the Steel Clan and steeilfied (compressed?)
final boss of steel DLC (steeLC)

[hazy meadow]

lmao

[azure dirge]

I think it’s more like knight only found out after killing the dreamers most likely. Knight isn’t omniscient after all.

[hazy meadow]

steel knight

[edgy barn]

Sure they technically could have but why would TC bother to show THK alive as a cliffhanger only to kill them off screen

[hazy meadow]

i dont think the knight thinks, period. (jOKING JOKING IM JOKING

[azure dirge]

That’s true. Why would TC keep baiting THK as alive if dnm is canon too?

[hazy meadow]

also please tell me im not hella brainrotted by the tumblr hk fandom that when i think of the knight i have the urge to call them ghost/little ghost

[azure dirge]

I think 112% ETV does give team cherry more to work with story wise.

And does hit all the cool aspects of dnm in theory.

[hazy meadow]

the godseekers DIE canon

[rose forge]

or maybe he became suicidal because he failed to make his father proud

[hazy meadow]

his duty was to protect hallownest. he can still do that

[azure dirge]

They prolly would have starved if knight didn’t interact with em anyway.

I think they do die if you get to them too late don’t they.

Just a corpse.

[edgy barn]

No?

That would just lock you out of godhome lol

[azure dirge]

I remember in my HK run they were just laying there the entire time.

[hazy meadow]

dont think so cause then you'd be locked outta content

[azure dirge]

No? You can dream nail their corpse.

[hazy meadow]

oh.

[azure dirge]

Things don’t have to be alive to enter their dreams guys.

[edgy barn]

That's when you haven't beaten any pantheons

[azure dirge]

Did you forget.

[dark rune]

when you first open the cage they collapse but when you beat pantheons she gets more stable

[edgy barn]

They are sleep, not dead

[hazy meadow]

they'll remain laying down til you defeat a few pantheons

[azure dirge]

Oooh

[edgy barn]

(i mean the godseekers here just in case)

[azure dirge]

I totally thought they were dead ngl

[edgy barn]

Did you just never exit godhome?

[azure dirge]

I think I beat a pantheon but then left after I first entered, then did the rest of the game then came back and never came back out cause there wasn’t any reason to anymore.

Lol.

[edgy barn]

Understadable

[dark rune]

cheeseburger

[dark rune]

'

[hazy meadow]

i think so

[rose forge]

is phantom controlling the wraiths? it makes most sense because of the mist's theme and exhaust organs theme. (also cause of the physical features of the wraiths)

[hazy meadow]

phantom effectively created the mist

when you beat phantom the steam within the exhaust organ stops and the mist vanishes

[rose forge]

oh yea

[hazy meadow]

so the correlation in my brain is without someone playing the exhaust organ the mist will cease to exist

[rose forge]

what does the butterflies even mean though?

[hazy meadow]

the wraiths might just be byproducts of what phantom is expelling from the exhaust organ

HAHA FUNNY THAT.

the whiteward has a machine that turns people into butterflies

[rose forge]

what

[muted lantern]

hey are we in agreement that the sound that hornet makes to call for the bell beast is what hornet named her?

[hazy meadow]

the butterflies are dead people.

they know things you don't.

[rose forge]

i blame snail shamans

[hazy meadow]

if you go to the white ward you'll find a chair with a whole load of things pointed at it with a couple cases containing the butterflies nearby

and if you walk to the right you'll find a secret room FULL of corpses

[rose forge]

and they use those dead people at light sources??/😭

[hazy meadow]

let me find the lore tablet thingy

ok i cant find it but you can only access the area in act 3

the chair is called the silk siphon

[rose forge]

dont they use that to inject silk into bugs or was that something else?

[azure dirge]

Wraiths seem to be formed from her will and collect silk as well.

[hazy meadow]

OKAY IF YOU GO TO THE WIKI PAGE FOR SILK FLIES YOU CAN FIND THE THING IM TALKING ABOUT

"Bug of voice grown hoarse or shell fallen frail, you have been selected for duty most sacred.
Become our light, our guide in darkness, that others worthy may climb to join the holy song."

[hazy meadow]

could be

[azure dirge]

You also see silk flies come out from automatons

[rose forge]

so they use dead people as light sources and also use them to power the machines in cogwork core?

[azure dirge]

And automatons seem to have souls put into them.

[hazy meadow]

yeah, hornet specifically mentions how the inside of the machines would not allow for such lifelike actions

hence there must be another source (the flies)

also: the fourth chorus also uses flies!

when you kill it thousands of the flies pour outta its eyes

[timber pond]

Bruh how many afterlifes we got in this world

[hazy meadow]

too many

[timber pond]

first dream imprints, the fucking soul flies

[rose forge]

dying in pharloom = eternal labor

[timber pond]

Well im pretty sure these must be somewhat universal Afterlives

I dont think the dream realm exists jusst in pharloom because the godseekers and Grimm use Them outsideof hallownests context

And in hollow knight we got Lumaflies. Yeah they arent the same as these flies, but they are remarkably similar

[hazy meadow]

and we thought the pale king was fucked up!

gsm....

[rose forge]

he just wanted the best for his kingdom

[timber pond]

I mean the weaevrs made the citadel as it is

[hazy meadow]

i thought that was GSM's doing..

[timber pond]

so IDK if Its GMS fault or not

[muted lantern]

Gamers, do we think hornet named Bell beast? The thing she says when calling the Bell beast sounds like a name to me

[hazy meadow]

i mean shaw could be a name but hey

the fact that they're only ever called the bell beast implies she hasn't named em

• she knows not to get attached (you can see this in her hunter notes + dialogue)

she's had many a partner in the past, all of whom have died due to her longer lifespan

should she get attached again, thats another stab to the heart once the bell beast dies

[rose forge]

does this implies the hornetlings

[hazy meadow]

i actually think hornet has refrained from having children or can't have children due to her unique bloodline

[muted lantern]

I think getting attached to a pet is very different than a romantic partner, for a lot of reasons, but getting a pet you know you are going to outlive them

[hazy meadow]

like how a mule can't have kids

[dark rune]

"Your mother is like a pet to me."
"A PET?"

[hazy meadow]

yeah but it seems she remains distant to all

friendly and polite but only to the point of showing respect

[muted lantern]

She's pretty quick to call secsen a friend

But I generally agree

[hazy meadow]

like sure she befriends shakra in a way but i imagine she still remains distant, polite and friendly, a sparring partner, but she knows not to get attached

staying distant keeps the heart safe in a way

[dark rune]

i think for the first one or two partners she didnt quite grasp how much she would outlive them

[dry bridge]

I think the journal entry for wraiths kinda defines them pretty hard as a thing phantom makes & uses to keep people out

[rose forge]

wait so how long was the timeframe from downfall of hallownest - hollow knight - silksong or was it never confirmed?

[muted lantern]

Doesn't wraith want to be killed?

Phantom*

[dry bridge]

phantom does yeah

[dark rune]

we just know it's probably been a while between each of those. might be a coupe hundred years between the two games for all we know.

[hazy meadow]

im just not sure how voluntary the wraith's creation is if that makes sense

[eternal sigil]

THK will be real in the last Skong DLC and will marry Shakra. This was revealed to me via astral projection from Ari Gibson

[dry bridge]

wraith needolin dialogue is mostly just "leave please"

[dark rune]

whyd she fight hornet if she wanted to die?

[dry bridge]

they wanted to die in a duel, just like pinstress

[rose forge]

probably shorter knowing bugs do have shorter lifespans

[muted lantern]

Wanted to go to valhalla

[hazy meadow]

like, if dear phantom is pouring their heart out on the exhaust organ they may just be going "woe is me" and the wraiths are a physical form of that emotion

if that makes sense

[eternal sigil]

blaze of glory, better than either suicide or withering away slowly

[muted lantern]

Phantom is just kinda extra

Which I love

[hazy meadow]

bro is literally phantom of the opera

[rose forge]

wait

what if mister mushroom is the cause for all of the falls of kingdoms

[muted lantern]

Phantom should have joined trobbios emo band

[tiny socket]

Does anyone else see a weird resemblance between Trobbio and Seth?

[rose forge]

hes been in every kingdom before they fell

[dry bridge]

mister mushroom is attracted to the falls of kingdoms, and bears witness to them

[hazy meadow]

also fun fact: even tho you get the needelin in bellhart, the fourth chorus has needolin dialogue

[eternal sigil]

not a cause, more of a symptom of massive and irreversible change

[hazy meadow]

hes not the cause, just an observer

[eternal sigil]

if something shakes the world he is drawn to witness this and move on

[hazy meadow]

i do like that he addresses hornet at the end though

[foggy fractal]

no

[hazy meadow]

"this kingdom is falling"
"not on my watch"
"if you say so"

[eternal sigil]

the Mr Mushroom quest's conclusion was imo the most humanizing point for Hornet in the game, also the only one that got me to tear up slightly

[dry bridge]

...Oh. Wyrm child. No surprise it's you who meets me here.
Following me are you? Or calling me? It is true I would not have sought the lands below if not for your grand actions within them.
this line from his last dialogue basically says as such

[hazy meadow]

i also like that she stops trying to reach out/talk at some point, just waits for him to notice her

[eternal sigil]

Hornet's only Wish of her own is to meet up with maybe the single familiar face in this blasted kingdom and ask him for advice

[tiny socket]

They feel quite similar to me, what do you feel significantly differentiates them?

[muted lantern]

they look like completely different bugs

[eternal sigil]

it is the only time she lets loose the mask of being the fated hero of the story, marching forward relentlessly

[muted lantern]

is trobbio a butterfly or a dragonfly?

[dry bridge]

mister mushroom also implies hornet's actions will one day draw the fall of another kingdom and mister mushroom with them

[muted lantern]

or somthing else

[hazy meadow]

i snee....
question though: why were the weavers captured? whos doing was that

[rose forge]

trobbiofly

hes his very own species trust

[dry bridge]

Only the journey... the now. For myself, that is the purpose, and as far as my sight can see.
If any other could come to understand that state, Wyrm child, I suspect it may be you...
Though maybe not yet, not this present, hmmm? Maybe in a future far, when your actions might hail me so again?

[eternal sigil]

good bait but in seriousness I feel like Seth is the Quirrel analogue of Silksong. A whole lot of similarities

[hazy meadow]

trobbio is a butterfly, seth is just a bug wearing a cloak (after you beat him he ditches the fluff)

[dark rune]

"YOU WERE CHEATING WITH THAT RADIANCE GIRL AGAIN, WEREN'T YOU 😭"

[hazy meadow]

seth is the quirrel of silksong, but he's a memory that will never die

[muted lantern]

divorce dlc

[rose forge]

me when i photoshop in ms paint:

[foggy fractal]

Seth doesn't have wings, has a more rectangular body, has more angular antennas, has a cymbal and pin, has a round head and round eyes, has a greyish green cloak

[muted lantern]

outside of the ones who are on the scoreboards, who would be the best at the flea games

i feel like shakra would dominate flea dodge and juggle

[timber pond]

I assume That was before the citadels construction, The first sinner figures out their origins GMS starts executing and capturing weavers, The Weavers then devise Plan A and Plan B. Plan A is the Citadel And Plan B is: Run away and have children to one day usurp her.

[hazy meadow]

i specifically made it a rule to myself to beat seth once i found him, to honor the man himself in a way
regardless of how unarmed i was, or how many times i died, i wouldn't stop til i beat seth, no side quests, no nothing
a battle of perserverance

[eternal sigil]

• unimaginably old warrior bugs
• preserved not through their own magic, but the hold of a higher power upon them
• significant memory loss for both
• both find peace in the time/life after their great mission in places of clean water

[muted lantern]

seth is like an inverse quirrel to me

[dark rune]

✅

[muted lantern]

instead of regaining memories and becoming more jaded and miserable, he goes from jaded and loses his memories and becomes joyful

[rose forge]

wouldve been funnier if it was ms paint😭

[dark rune]

im on mac

[muted lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-hollow-knight-bell-beast-hornet-i-fucking-love-my-dog-gif-16253163473145257201

[hazy meadow]

it seems semi recent? sure the cradle is old and dusty but surely they've been capturing weavers for a while before they found hornet

[rose forge]

oooooh

[muted lantern]

does skong run on mac?

[shy island]

so is grandma silk a pale being

[muted lantern]

ye

[dark rune]

yes with no issues

im on a 2020 macbook pro

[hazy meadow]

idk if shes a PALE being but shes defo a higher being

[shy island]

and what exactly does that mean what do pale beings have different from other higher beings

[timber pond]

Perhaps They Just... kept doing it on the comands of the Haunting and thread.

[muted lantern]

lace is considered a pale being so presumably so is gms

[rose forge]

moss bag explains it clearly

[dark rune]

important distinction, she is not a grandmother, she is a grand mother

[hazy meadow]

i NEED MOSSBAG TO MAKE A VIDEO ON SILKSONG GRAH

[eternal sigil]

quirrel isn't jaded at the end of his mission, as it were; dreamnail dialogue states as thus:

All tragedy erased. I see only wonders... ```

[muted lantern]

mossbag found dead in miami

[shy island]

i'll keep calling her grandma but thanks

[rose forge]

so pale beings are like 10g network

and higher beings are 2g networks

[muted lantern]

i forget it's not canon he offed himself

[rose forge]

im pretty sure thats how it goes

[hazy meadow]

yeah

[dark rune]

is the only qualification for being a pale being being white

[hazy meadow]

mossbag with the pro explaination

[hazy meadow]

so is. the radience a pale being?

[muted lantern]

oh no not this debate again

[shy island]

god racism

[dark rune]

tc has some explaining to do

[muted lantern]

the true message of hollow knight is white people caused the worlds problems /j

im white i can say it

[eternal sigil]

IMHO "Pale" beings are in some capacity able to control whatever substance Soul and Silk are

[dark rune]

im also white i can click the finger emoji

[shy island]

chat what's ur favorite piece of funny lore bit in these games

I'm latino can I click the finger emoji

[rose forge]

im hispanic but idgaf so i will click it

[dark rune]

leg eater eats legs

[muted lantern]

you have the pass, i grant it to all

[shy island]

thanks

[shy island]

what does leg eater eats

[dark rune]

legs

[shy island]

who eats legs

[hazy meadow]

sherma is wearing his hat under that white hood in act 3

[muted lantern]

eat legger is his arch nemisis

[dark rune]

leg eater

[hazy meadow]

not quite lore but i think its funny he wears the hat still

[dry bridge]

you ever had crab before

[shy island]

funny

[dry bridge]

wait I read that as why not what

oops

[rose forge]

mister mushroom loves drama

[obsidian quail]

GMS is explicitly a pale being

[muted lantern]

is it technically cannibalism to eat a different species of sapient bug? like they are a different species

[hazy meadow]

imagine dlc ending hornet becomes void /j

[shy island]

dlc ending hornet becomes mr mushroom

[hazy meadow]

you BANISH the void? now get ready for you become void /j

[eternal sigil]

• both of these substances are milk-white and have remarkable properties
• all HBs known to be pale have some ties to soul or silk manipulation/generation (White Lady through Kingsmould at minimum)
• Hornet is a non-HB pale being, and is special for being able to generate her own Silk beyond simple Weaver metabolism, likely from Soul gained from enemies
• Eva, speculated as another non-HB pale being, confers Silk generation when her essence is assimilated

[dark rune]

wait... then what's the lesson about void

[rose forge]

imagine dlc with a teenage grim child

[obsidian quail]

Pale Beings are really good at Soul shit, GMS is a Pale Being who expresses it through Silk

[muted lantern]

a good question

[eternal sigil]

I think the theory that Silk represents a solid form/state of Soul holds a lot of weight

[dry bridge]

Silk (substance) is explicitly tied to soul by an early line IIRC
Also the fact that kingsoul is passive soul generation adds more to the pal-soul connection

[dark rune]

he does the dab as his dance and a big lazer comes out of his arms and destroys the kingdom

[hazy meadow]

i imagine silk is a more refined form of soul?

[dark rune]

tc i would like my check in the mail

[dark rune]

its like... soul but not soul... and also filled with soul

[muted lantern]

do you guys think soul master would eat the silk like spaghetti?

[hazy meadow]

like, you can use soul to cast spells n stuff.
but you can see its liquidy in nature (soul meter n stuff)

[dark rune]

most certainly

[obsidian quail]

it’s a form of soul unique to gms or gms spawn

[hazy meadow]

but then theres hornet and the weavers, using it to weave spells, more powerful than soul and much more refined

[eternal sigil]

he would do lines of powdered Silk and attain a more pure focus

[hazy meadow]

where soul is the rawest form of power, silk is like a more delicate and refined version in my eyes

ofc its specific to the spider folk (hornat...)

[rose forge]

ms paint peak

[dark rune]

this kind of sounds like... co-

[muted lantern]

he would have a lady and the tramp scene with the whiteward guy

[eternal sigil]

yeah Soul seems more generally powerful but less precisely applicable and specifically usable outside of rather amorphous magics

[dark rune]

i can make it a smaller photoshop size so that it's more pixelly

[obsidian quail]

idk if Hornet and Weavers can use regular soul

i think they’re equal just different forms

[hazy meadow]

like

look at the knight's spells vs hornet's

[eternal sigil]

I think Hornet is special for being able to metabolize Silk from Soul due to two lines of pale HB inheritance

[eternal sigil]

precisely. Stupid powerful, but way, way less common than the Silk Skills or their analogues

[dark rune]

the unravelled? 😰

[obsidian quail]

all Weavers including Hornet generate Soul in the form of Silk

[muted lantern]

does hornet only gain silk from enemies because they have silk naturally in all of them? i guess the way to check that would be if you get silk from the surface guys

[eternal sigil]

Even random grunts of the Choir can be trained in the Silk Arts

[obsidian quail]

she gains soul from them

silk and soul are not distinct

[muted lantern]

ok so her pk heritage lets her absorb soul to make silk then?

[dark rune]

ig

[muted lantern]

assumedly the average bug doesnt get silk from hitting things

[eternal sigil]

We only see dedicated scholars or inherently arcane beings use soul magic in HK

[hazy meadow]

you do get silk from them (its her form of soul in a way)

[dry bridge]

I found the line I was thinking of, it was seamstress

[hazy meadow]

but in the journal entry she says they dont have silk

[obsidian quail]

we don’t know if weavers can do it to my recollection

[eternal sigil]

you do, despite the journal entry

[obsidian quail]

but hornet isn’t doing anything different from the knight

[edgy nebula]

hornet gets soul by hitting enemies and her shell turns it into silk

[obsidian quail]

their soul just manifests differently

[hazy meadow]

ya there we go

[eternal sigil]

to me this means Hornet metabolizes the stuff from Soul

[rose forge]

weavers gain their silk directly from gms i think

[hazy meadow]

soul is easy to get your hands on, just kill stuff

but to use it is another thing

and to turn it into silk is even rarer

[eternal sigil]

and has the ability to sequester Soul from other organisms due to Pale King heritage

[obsidian quail]

they generate silk in their bodies but idk if they can take soul from others

[dark rune]

and to generate it passively

[hazy meadow]

soul master wants a word with you

[dry bridge]

the line "those old weavers shared it" implies there were ways for other bugs to learn silk skills, maybe? or simpler silkcrafts like runes & whatever would eventually become whiteward's medical malpractice stuff

[obsidian quail]

Weavers don’t really turn Soul in Silk actively though

[eternal sigil]

I think the Weavers can make Silk but it is more like normal spiders, i.e. pretty slow to do so or at least needs a lot of practice

[obsidian quail]

their Soul literally manifests as Silk

it’s a passive body constitution

[eternal sigil]

baby hornet was doing things basically right out of the egg

[timber pond]

Bro sacificed a bagillion bugs for even a fraction of that power lol

[hazy meadow]

yeah but still regular bugs can attain it

[edgy nebula]

a bugillion

[eternal sigil]

they use a massive amount of technology to compensate for lack of divine biology

[hazy meadow]

just needs. a lot of stuff.

[muted lantern]

hold up i need to make an image

wait for me please

[hazy meadow]

pale beings seem to be able to harness it more naturally

[eternal sigil]

like both the Sanctum and Groal have jars of gaseous Soul in their stashes, the stuff has to be artificially usable

[dry bridge]

that's due to weavers being uplifted by GMS who originated the whole soul->silk thing I think. pharlids don't seem to have any silk skills naturally

[timber pond]

It just needs Copious amounts of bug sacrifice and horrible experiments. Its like saying "yeah, well, the bugs of whiteward have silk powers too!"😂

[eternal sigil]

and Hornet calls that of Groal "stolen"

[obsidian quail]

right

[rose forge]

well what do you think those white butterflies in silksong are!

[edgy nebula]

yeah he took it from the snail shaman

[obsidian quail]

I don’t think GMS can use regular Soul attacks

[hazy meadow]

IM JUST SAYING SOUL ISNT SPECIFIC TO JUST SHAMANS AND PALE BEINGS.

[eternal sigil]

Also actually seems to be a common thing the Stillkin as a whole do, given that tablet near the Bilehaven bench. Presumably something Groal has them do to fuel his magic, given nobody else does it

[rose forge]

they turn dead people into butterflies to power their labor😭

[dry bridge]

you do need to be sufficiently strong-souled to make active use of soul magic, unless you use the shortcut of taking soul from others yeah

[timber pond]

But using it like they do is. Unless you rally against nature.

[lethal burrow]

so that's where trobbio comes from?

[hazy meadow]

well yeah.

[eternal sigil]

Except instead of abducting Hallownest civilians like the Sanctum, the Stillkin abduct Citadel bugs or other outsiders

[rose forge]

trobbio is a regular bug

[lethal burrow]

You said butterfly

[hazy meadow]

trobbio is a butterfly but we're talking abt the silkflies

[eternal sigil]

I think the Chorus mechs being swarms of silkflies/soulflies/whatever inside giant robots is both a spooky as hell concept and metal as fuck

[hazy meadow]

the lil white butterflies you see around pharloom

[hazy meadow]

me looking at fourth chorus's needolin dialogue:

[lethal burrow]

I can hardly be blamed for thinking you're talking about butterflies if you say butterflies

[hazy meadow]

yeah i hear, shouldve specified

[eternal sigil]

have you ever used needolin in the Architect's lair near the inactive Choruses, or by the one at Architect Crest before you claim it?

[edgy nebula]

do we even know if trobbio's a butterfly

marissa's a butterfly and she has much more fitting wings

[eternal sigil]

both have needolin statements

[hazy meadow]

i mean. his face shape, antennas, wings...

[eternal sigil]

though I think the inactive mechs only have a single line

their eyes all light up tho

[hazy meadow]

if he isnt a butterfly what would he be

[rose forge]

trobbiofly

[eternal sigil]

trobbio is high on lifeblood confirmed

[hazy meadow]

guys pls

if someone says hes a moth im gonna jump off the top of the cradle

[rose forge]

i think trobbios a moth

[hazy meadow]

be real though

i think he looks more like a butterfly

marissa looks. strange (i vaguely remember her having hair?)_

[eternal sigil]

in full honesty I think he is probably some kind of lepidopteran, just because the combo of wings + colorful is utterly butterfly coded

also dragonflies are already used in Mosshome + Verdania as "dragonflies but like a dragon"

and we already know what HK mothfolk look like and he ain't them

[muted lantern]

layout is bad on purpose

[hazy meadow]

my body is a that turns into machine hurting people silk

sorry i had to

[rose forge]

"sa sa le le"

[hazy meadow]

YOU GET IT

[muted lantern]

no it was needed

[eternal sigil]

MY BODY IS A
tool (red)
THAT TURNS
skilk
INTO
skong

[hazy meadow]

WHY AM I READING THIS LIKE SPAMTON HELP ME

[muted lantern]

you guys don't even notice the worst part of the meme

half the texts have black backgrounds and half dont

[hazy meadow]

my body is a [MACHINE] that turns [HURTING PEOPLE] into [SILK]

[eternal sigil]

😱

[muted lantern]

hold on, i need to make another image

[hazy meadow]

can someone edit hornet over that one image of the skeleton

[eternal sigil]

why does that [Number1RatedSalesman1997] have to be so infinitely quotable

[rose forge]

turns [[HURTING PEOPLE]] into [[HYPERLINK BLOCKED]]

[oak meadow]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/HURTING_PEOPLE?action=edit&redlink=1
https://hollowknight.wiki/w/HYPERLINK_BLOCKED?action=edit&redlink=1

[frosty gate]

MY BODY IS A MACHINE THAT TURNS [A HAUNTED RUINED KINGDOM] INTO [HELL ITSELF]

[eternal sigil]

you know Spamton being a literal string puppet fits the themes of Pharloom disturbingly well

somebody get on Ao3

[hazy meadow]

i want a version of this with hte knight and the hollow knight

[muted lantern]

okay im out of time someone edit spampton onto hornets head

[eternal sigil]

you literally seek freedom from control by an (unwitting) pact with The Devil You Don't Know

[hazy meadow]

my body is a [MACHINE] that turns a [FALLEN KINGDOM] into a [FALLEN KINGDOM FREE OF INFECTION]

[frosty gate]

At least they fixed it, Hornet seems to make things worse with every step

[hazy meadow]

i need to draw a picture of hornet giving a thumbs up to the camera with the caption "about to banish a bitch"

[rose forge]

my body is a [KNIGHT] that turns [SILENECE] into a [ROARING]

[eternal sigil]

the dlc where you play as THK only has one Act because it absorbs all the silk and just kills all of the enemy gods without help

[hazy meadow]

like shes so happy looking and then theres a post snared silk picture thats just her in the rubble "oh wyrm what have i done"

[eternal sigil]

mfw the Radiance turns THK into a roaring knight

[hazy meadow]

hornet holding the flower and looking so dead inside looking at the camera with the caption "about to save the bitch who was tryna kill me"

in my brain, hornet is like, super done with this shit, but shes like "this is my fault i need to take responsibility"

[eternal sigil]

last convo with Lace supports that view imo

[hazy meadow]

im gonna be real i forgor most of that convo

[eternal sigil]

Lace: "come drown with me as the world ends!!!!"
Hornet: "feel free to go die in a ditch somewhere, stand by for my arrival"

[hazy meadow]

LMAO OKAY YEAH

hornet: i've lived too long to rly care just be ready for me to throw my needle at your face

[eternal sigil]

Lace basically goes full super edgy nihilist and Hornet dgaf

tormented trobbio could take lessons

[hazy meadow]

that reminds me of this one comic i saw years ago that was just

[rose forge]

i tried😭

[hazy meadow]

"ah the pale spider finally arrives! at las-"
"how long have you been waiting for me?"
"DOESN'T MATTER LETS JUST FIGHT"

YEAH THATS IT THANKS

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA

im still gonna draw it though cause i specifically wanna draw the giant ball of silk behind her + the caretaker

[rose forge]

i had to go on tiktok to find the guarna photo cause it wasnt on pintrest for some reason😭

[hazy meadow]

i also have this

[eternal sigil]

this will be Skong in 2007

[rose forge]

i hope im not banned from the lore channel cause of this😭

[eternal sigil]

Hornet but in Fancy Pants Adventure

[hazy meadow]

me too

[rose forge]

actually

[hazy meadow]

i can wait for the hornet skins

[rose forge]

is the vaultkeeper the actual vaultkeeper?

[edgy nebula]

silksong couldve been 2x shorter if mottled skarr lived and soloed gms

[hazy meadow]

also: i WAS SO OBLIVIOUS TO THE SHAMANS BEING. SHAMANS.

[bronze turret]

Maybe those should be reserved for a... Oh, I just realized we only have an hk-meme channel, but not one for Silksong

[edgy nebula]

there are many vaultkeepers

[bronze turret]

We should send a ticket requesting a ss-meme channel creation

[hazy meadow]

I WAS LIKE OH YOU GOT A BIG HEAD UNDER THERE.... ARE YOU PERHAPS A SNAIL

[edgy nebula]

the vaultkeeper is just one of them

[hazy meadow]

JUST TO THE CARETAKER. NO ONE ELSE

[eternal sigil]

back to seriousness, as personalities lace and trobbio remind me quite a bit of one another, except one is diegetically serious while the other is fully played for laughs

[rose forge]

so the conducter is the only main one alive

[hazy meadow]

it did not click in my brain that the chapel maid was a snail

[rose forge]

also the lesser known one in the bell veins below the bell beast fast travel

[hazy meadow]

yeah no the hermit.

[eternal sigil]

I noticed that they were all related, and shared the needolin songs about "Spiral power" and "Our power", but didn't at any point connect that they might be snails

[hazy meadow]

i thought he was just weird tbh

[edgy nebula]

vaultkeeper cardinius, conductor ballador, and the twelfth architect are the only ones of all of the 3 citadel caste currently alive

[eternal sigil]

hell even their staves are a dead giveaway

snail shell spirals at their ends

[edgy nebula]

if you dont count the haunted keepers and the vaultling guys

[bronze turret]

Yeah I was a little baffled I didn't pick up on it earlier, all the clues were there

[edgy nebula]

actually no the vaultling guys become scrollreaders nevermind

[chrome atlas]

Hollow Knight has a moment early where a snail shaman keeps whacking you with their stick, right?

[rose forge]

but they all die in act 3 right?

[chrome atlas]

Or like poking you?

[bronze turret]

Ballador and 12th do, The Pontiff is long dead

[eternal sigil]

well, for her and for Bell Hermit at least

[graceful grail]

Someone explain why Gogwork Dancers dont have Liteflys in them, they just burst alot of silk apon defeat

[edgy nebula]

i think cardinius lives during act 3, but ballador gets crushed by debris and twelfth architect dies if you get everything from her

[bronze turret]

I guess we just didn't assume there would be a comeback of the snails in Silksong, hence our obliviousness

[eternal sigil]

Cardinius is the living Vault Keeper. The unnamed dead Pontiff is long dead though

[vague whale]

Green Prince explains why

[bronze turret]

Oh, thanks, I got the name wrong!

[edgy nebula]

i find it weird how this thing becomes a scrollreader and not a vaultkeeper

[eternal sigil]

np, hard to keep track

[edgy nebula]

how does he grow 4 legs and a pair of arms

[eternal sigil]

I think they are probably the same species, or at least the mad ones we fight as enemies aren't the same ones as the bookworms

[bronze turret]

The way we unleash those things into the map is not something I expected to see in this game, it was both an absolute cinema and a big "feck, what have I done...?" moment!

[rose forge]

so they are just born to work? just like the "workers" in the slab?

[edgy nebula]

when does it even happen? i only found them during act 3

[eternal sigil]

like I cannot see the Pontiff hat guys with knife arms as being related to the giant worms

Doubly so given that Scrounge exists as a non-Citadel example

[bronze turret]

In Chapter 2, there's a hidden choir room where you interact with something that I forgot right now (apologies, I'm getting sleepy), when you do, there's a in-game event where these little guys come out of their hiding and infest the map before chapter 3.

[edgy nebula]

aaah, weird

[edgy nebula]

yeah they are very weird

[hazy meadow]

i fully thought you were talking about the baby judges

[vital ruin]

bugs are known for having batshit insane metamorphoses

have you seen butterflies

[eternal sigil]

oh also while we are talking about bug anatomy

we need some insane dimorphism in the setting

[rose forge]

marmu turns into marissa

[eternal sigil]

like not Leg Eater/Divine tier

like trilobite beetles

[edgy nebula]

just found this image and i chuckled

[chrome atlas]

silksong marketing materials with steel bugs:

[rose forge]

these are OUR copper golems

[edgy nebula]

oh how foolish we were before silksong released

[bronze turret]

Yeah they are more akin to centipedes/milipedes than annelids

[eternal sigil]

or strepsipterans

I thought they were going to pull something like this with Styx

[eternal sigil]

oh, to be an ancient Skonger

[rose forge]

why did gms still try to protect lace if she even though lace betrayed her?

[dry bridge]

They contain some essence of the green prince's partner in order to animate them instead

[eternal sigil]

still her baby

[timber pond]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/11662585/hollow-knight/posts/1801455 i remember this, the fossil skonger i am 😂

[rose forge]

so is protecting lace just a top priority instinct?

[eternal sigil]

whatever one thinks of the relationship between the two, the fact that GMS unconditionally loves Lace is never really shaken in game, and a number of other things can be chalked up to it

[timber pond]

Bro and his Void whip https://i.kickstarter.com/assets/015/421/919/5ade70cb03b80459afee6c6b95043092_original.gif?fit=scale-down&origin=ugc&q=92&v=1486460543&width=700&sig=%2BYqX8%2B4kE7z%2FkBZprfrOeJahINndhEzcKgMk0VGxIls%3D

[edgy nebula]

sharpe is not void....

[eternal sigil]

yeah, the controlling motherhood drive of GMS is seemingly her primary motivator for doing everything in the game

[timber pond]

Dog that shit is a void tendril

[edgy nebula]

that is motion blur

[timber pond]

And steel Bugs have vassals that summon void Man is a Steel assasin

[edgy nebula]

he can (presumably) speak and he has gender

my man is not void

[eternal sigil]

oh man, Hornet DLC days

[timber pond]

That means nothing , Jhinn equates The masters to void creatures in base hollow knight

[eternal sigil]

I do think we will see them some day, the Steel faction got teased a lot in Skong

[timber pond]

Shades can be anything

[eternal sigil]

the City of Steel, the Steel Soul exclusive content

[timber pond]

Acording to the Achient civlization really

[edgy nebula]

she doesnt, she states tk is different, like her masters, likely instead referring to tk being able to command the void to their will and how her masters control the people under them

[eternal sigil]

oh shit hold up

what if The Masters are a faction of void constructs from a really long time ago, like the Kingsmoulds of White Palace

went their own way after their parent civilization went kaput

or betrayed them and took everything over

[timber pond]

My crack theroy is that The pale KIng used Steel City tech he levraged to MAke those

and His death might have been The masters hunting him

Because the void itself dosent really act on its own

[timber pond]

IDK man, Sharpe is very Similar to wingsmoulds and Kingsmoulds. void Can be Moulded into other purposes. Silksong confirms this to be the case.

[rose forge]

does the act 3 ending imply that skong comes from either the dnm ending or etv timeline? (going by the fact the every ending is canon)

[timber pond]

Peraphs JiJi and Sula Are bugs of the Ancient Civ And The masters have them Under Lock and Key

[edgy nebula]

if we explicitly see where he was made i wont be opposed, but for now im unsure and would personally prefer if he wasnt

[timber pond]

MAking constructs Like Sharpe to do thier bidding

[eternal sigil]

iirc Embrace the Void has more circumstantial evidence (music motif from Godhome when Ghost shows up, Lord of Shades appearance briefly)

neither is confirmed or denied though

[edgy nebula]

it seems like this is the first time sula is summoning void, as they have false views on what will come from summoning it

summoned saviour did NOT save sula 💔

[eternal sigil]

I have immense volumes of hopium that it's ETV such that The Hollow Knight might show up in Skong alive and ok

[timber pond]

I think its ETV And the sharde lord Form is just something the knight can do With Void heart. We do see shade lords claws rend the tendrils and such

And also The Shade cloak statue calls us the lord of shades in Hollow KNight

[eternal sigil]

not a bad theory. Another similarity I have noted is that the Vault bugs' brazen masks seem rather like those of the Steel people, maybe implying some influence there

[timber pond]

Sure, but what's important is that these bugs under the Masters have that knowledge for some reason. And Hornet understands the markings required for such a ritual implies that its some kind of secret knowledge she is very barely privy to and no normal creature could be.

[edgy nebula]

the brone-ish masks seem to just be somethig that the citadel can create en masse, seen in the cogworks and with the judges

shading-wise theyre quite similar though, but most hk metals are

[eternal sigil]

indeed, my thought was that if the Steel people are really old they might have inspired the Citadel's designs in some fashion

[rose forge]

i just realized that the silk flies in the mist are probably the dead bugs that used sinners road to get to the citadel just to die by phantom cause why else would they know the path

[eternal sigil]

but very circumstantial at best

[edgy nebula]

i remember someone saying summoning void in the steel faction is a taboo but i dont know where that was said and may be plain wrong, but shrug

[eternal sigil]

very good theory

[timber pond]

It is, but for what reason we dont know. IT could be Intent.

[edgy nebula]

maybe

also, what do you mean about hornet knowing the markings?

[timber pond]

Zi sates at the end of the quest that the masters will hunt down anyone who "is tarnished by the dark"

implying that anyone who summons or is involved with summoning void will be killed

even if its a higher being

[edgy nebula]

humm, i wonder why jiji is still around then

[timber pond]

THat is a valid question

[rose forge]

does this imply that the steel faction may have killed the snail shamans during hornets red dream?

[timber pond]

NAh i think they jsut used thier life force

to complete that spell

[edgy nebula]

part of me is a bit curious why no steel beings stepped in during act 3, since their masters preserve chaos

[timber pond]

Another thing is that Hornet and shermas last in game conversation is about hornet telling sherma to Take care of pharloom and its pepole because she will likely need to leave immideatly after the issue is resolved. And then we see LAce and hornets nails in the surface on the title screen.

Steel soul quest might imply that hornet must leave because the masters will come

[graceful wigeon]

Had dumb thoughts on the endings and how Team Cherry could reconcile their desire for "all endings are canon in some way".

[rose forge]

each ending could be their own timeline

[timber pond]

I honestly think they just meant "We can make cannons about each ending whenever we want" or something and everyone took that the wrong way lol.

[graceful wigeon]

@rose forge Yep, exactly. The Kirby approach, where every ending happened in an alt timeline and the final True Ending is actually possible thanks to all the others having happened.

It could even be a fun way to explain why the Godhome ending, for HK1, is so hard; Absolute Radiance is not so much a "purer" version of Radiance; both Radiance fights was the real thing.

But Absolute Radiance, as a god, is a being beyond linear time and remember what happened in Dream No More. So she adjusted her patterns and fight much faster, having learnt from how the first fight went. For the player and this version of Ghost/the Knight, it's a first encounter. But from Radiance's perspective, it's a rematch.

[rose forge]

godhome brought radiance to her/his (i forgor) peak which explains why they are more powerful ex: thk became pure vessel cause thats his peak and the mantis lords became sisters of battle

[graceful wigeon]

I was just throwing ideas. I am aware of that.

[rose forge]

im trying to say that it wasnt a rematch but it was just radiance simply being more powerful

[graceful wigeon]

I am aware.

As an aside... for the "alt timeline" idea... I do feel it would be an interesting idea if in a DLC, you could use the "enter past version of areas" Needolin ability... to enter Pharloom areas, except that they are from timelines following alt HK1 endings. For example, a version of Chorus Chambers where Silk and Radiance fight over control of the bugs' minds following Hollow Knight/Sealed Siblings. Or a version of the Marrow in an alternate universe where the entire world is Void-ified even worse than in Act 3 following a non-Delicate Flower variant of Embrace the Void. And so on.

Dunno if what I'm saying is stupid or interesting.

[bronze turret]

"Foul Tarnished, emboldened by the flame of ambition"

[lethal burrow]

it sounds like fanfiction /pos

[bronze turret]

I'll... have to agree with @lethal burrow on this one. Sounds too fanficky.

[graceful wigeon]

:/

[rugged storm]

Instead of another boss rush, what if you could unlock special songs where if you go back to the arena and play that song, you fight the boss again

[lethal burrow]

You're spinning my words to a tone they did not have

[raw pewter]

I mean I would love the "travelling back in time to a kingdom at it's prime" troupe in Silksong

I really want to fight Phantom in her prime

[lethal burrow]

I just don't know what they would do for that

[timber pond]

That kind of seems inconveinet lol. I thin kHornet just Memory Diving herself makes more sense

[rose forge]

phantom in her prime would probably just be a weaker lace

[raw pewter]

Ooo maybe not in her prime, but her Dream Version, kinda like Broken Vessel/Lost Kin, False Knight/Failed Champion, etc. A buffed up version of Phantom in the dream realm

[rugged storm]

honestly, I think they're about equal right now cause of her experience

she also has the exhaust organ though

[bronze turret]

Wait, what "pos" meant, then?

[lethal burrow]

Positive

[rugged storm]

guys what are the craw supposed to be? obviously crows but probably not cause they're not bugs

[bronze turret]

Is that Reddit lingo?

[lethal burrow]

no it's just tone indicators lmao

[raw pewter]

The Craws are bugs, just bugs that look like crows

[bronze turret]

I wouldn't know, the side of the internet I come from uses "pos" as an abbreviation

[rugged storm]

but what bugs

[lethal burrow]

Perhaps the / should've cluded you in

[bronze turret]

But really, my opinion should not be lumped with what you meant. It's just my opinion, after all

[lethal burrow]

ye

[raw pewter]

There are no real world counterparts to the Craws as far as I know

[vague whale]

cluded

[bronze turret]

That's the thing, sidebars are something I associate with Reddit and prompt commands mostly, not emotion indicators. Those I usually see clued with parenthesis and asterisks

[raw pewter]

I learned about /j and others from discord

[vague whale]

i never remember them all

[bronze turret]

That was the only one I learned from Discord, really.

[raw pewter]

Neither do I, I only know like three or four

[lethal burrow]

there are really only three or four that people actually use.

Maybe five depending

[cloud mesa]

/j /s /srs /gen /pos

[lethal burrow]

ye

and then, if you wanna be a little weird there's also /hj

[bronze turret]

Yeah definitely the only one I've ever seen people around me use was the /j

[cloud mesa]

/hj i dont count as a tone indicator

cuz it adds meaning beyond a tone

[rugged storm]

guys imagine we get this bug in zoteboat or whatever

[lethal burrow]

Are those eyeballs?

[rugged storm]

no

antennae I think

[cloud mesa]

die die die

[raw pewter]

The black ones are unlikely to be eyeballs

[bronze turret]

Nah the eyeballs are down below and yellow, this is one of those "lure" appendages

[lethal burrow]

I want badly to see this thing in a zute-suit

[rugged storm]

it has the power to adapt... five times

or four ig

[vague anvil]

why do we spawn outside of first sinner's prison everytime we fight her? Is it like a dream?

or she just doesn't kill us

as she's a weaver against GMS

[cobalt coyote]

Think its more of a dream

[vague anvil]

ohhh, while binding truu

[cobalt coyote]

Since last sinner uses silk

Id guess GMS would have used her

[vague anvil]

ohh true

[cobalt coyote]

So the last sinner is prob dead

[vague anvil]

widow and first sinner make similar noises as well

[cobalt coyote]

Didnt it say Smth Like absolution denied on its cage

[vague anvil]

last sinner?

[cobalt coyote]

First

[vague anvil]

OH YEA

[cobalt coyote]

Mb messed it up

[vague anvil]

absolution = after life?

[cobalt coyote]

Probably

[vague anvil]

ohh

[cobalt coyote]

Maybe by beating her we grant her absolution?

[vague anvil]

could be idk

she binds with us

[lethal burrow]

absolution is just being absolved of sin

[cobalt coyote]

Also are the other silk skill / ability spots dead weavers top.

Too?

[lethal burrow]

Yeah well at least I don't think they look particularly alive

[cobalt coyote]

Also why couldnt GMS just turn more pharlids into weavers and then trap them to make some sort of silk farm

[rose forge]

the weavers put her in a deep slumber before the events of hornet arriving at pharloom

[cobalt coyote]

Who wrote the choral commandment tho?

To capture Hornet

[rose forge]

probably widow

[cobalt coyote]

Oh fair shes aware of who hornet is aswell

[lime nova]

Wait. Do we have any actual proof that the greenery in Shellwood was caused by Nyleth?

I possibly see her as just an insect queen of the bugs that disguise as plants

I really want us to more deeply analyze pre-silk pharloom

Wait.

[hazy meadow]

hey

can anyone confirm what gsm actually did and didnt do

[lime nova]

Okay when you defeat her, the plants automatically, of their own volition, give you the Nyleth heart.

This implies that the plants of Shellwood are a hivemind that is Nyleth

[hazy meadow]

also hi fellow splatooner in hk server

[lime nova]

Hii

I think Nyleth is not a bug, but actually the forest itself. And I think the Nyleth body is a construction by Nylethcreated to resemble a bug, so she can diplomatically confer with those living upon her lands

[lethal burrow]

she ascended the Weavers and made lace and phantom.

And is the one controlling the haunting (in some capacity?)

Those are the only things she has confirmed to have done, everything else is highly likely to completely disproving

[lime nova]

The bugs living among her being literal parasites on her body, and Seth being the guard of her shrine

[rose forge]

so basically the unn of silksong in a way?

[lime nova]

You don't go where Nyleth lived, she's still alive, you go where she was worshiped

[hazy meadow]

did sheeeeeeeeeeee capture the weavers or. who instsructed that.

who stamped approval on those orders

[lime nova]

And Nyleth is alive everywhere there's greenery

She spreads

[lethal burrow]

on some level... however it's not clear how conscious it was

[lime nova]

She's a single, massive organism

[hazy meadow]

mushroom

[lethal burrow]

God, I love women who are single, massive organisms

[lime nova]

Khan is the only one of the great three to be deceased at the start of the game

[lethal burrow]

Unless you believe in hibernation theory

[lime nova]

Lmao hi

[hazy meadow]

do we know how uh

[lethal burrow]

:3

[hazy meadow]

the choir came about

was that gsm or weavers being evil

and the slab n stuff

also would weavers classify as higher or pale beings..... or neither...

[lethal burrow]

uh the choir are like the highest level people of the citadel, if I recall correctly, they were a thing before the Weavers left, and then we're put in charge after the Weavers left.

I don't remember.

For the slab though I don't know if there's anything that hard confirms the date, but I would assume it's as old as the citadel itself