sk-lore

[edgy barn]

How did the DLC interact with saves in HK?

[brisk finch]

I don't think they;'d do a full kingdom, and I don't think we're really missing much

[brisk finch]

Things just Appeared

[finite cave]

yeah i agree still would be cool tho

[brisk finch]

Like the area godseeker is in, it didn't exist and then it did

[wintry prairie]

Magik

[ebon silo]

I do have a proposal which ive said far too many times which is that before you go to the red memory you can talk to the snail shamans to upgrade your needolin for it to play for an entire region making you go directly to the regions memory and see what it was before the haunting

[finite cave]

also iirc they scrapped and/or replaced a few areas

[wintry prairie]

Depending on how big future DLCs are I’m probably just gonna make a new save for them

[brisk finch]

It technically flows nicer if you start from a new file, but you can theoretically still be playing your day 1 save with everything new
Although you may find out after tge fact that saving Zote would've meant xyz

[finite cave]

like sands of karak and the coral place

[brisk finch]

Verdania and Red Coral Gorge are still represented in the final product tho

[rain gate]

rip barnacle bay 😔

[brisk finch]

The only cut place is the hermit crab bay are- yes exactly

[ebon silo]

It's probably DLC

[finite cave]

by replace i mean that

[brisk finch]

It's in the game already

[ebon silo]

We are still missing the lion town

[brisk finch]

It's not on any of the maps

[ebon silo]

Y'know that one Twitter discussion where they would add lions on the game

[brisk finch]

They may have also just been joking about ant lions

[wintry prairie]

I thought that was pretty obvious

[brisk finch]

Which yes, the ant town implied in the announcement trailer also doesn't exist
but we still got the ants

[ebon silo]

or it could've been the flea caravan the entire time

[wintry prairie]

I doubt we will fight simba

[ebon silo]

Or better yet mufasa

[finite cave]

just a huge mega flea corpse you play elegy of the deep on

and it happens to look like a lion

[brisk finch]

Like, almost everything announced has been incorporated in some way
Or is literally backer content and therefore very likely to be dlc

[dapper willow]

Saves are very simple in hk/ss because its just a table of true or false statements more or less

[brisk finch]

Makes them very easy to read too 😄 It's how I first realized there were more alchemist quests originally

[dapper willow]

At least I think they are based on how the game work

[brisk finch]

(probably from the mossblood/muckblood era of dev, instead of lifeblood)

[ebon silo]

I want to open the Chum bucket in bone bottom

[dapper willow]

Isnt it so cool that there are so many skips and routes you can take in ss

[wintry prairie]

I’ve already used a couple to make life easier

[brisk finch]

it's fascinating to me that Lifeblood Spire was one of the very first locations imagined for the game that would become silksong
And yet it's only included in a questline not written with that intent (because the alchemist originally wanted moss/muckblood)

[proud swan]

Dude Styx is referred as GRUBFARMER in the files thats savage

[flat wolf]

instead we got heroin lets goooo W team cherry

[brisk finch]

(i say moss and muckblood because there's different dialogue for both, probably iterations on each other)

[wintry prairie]

I can see team Cherry expanding with lifeblood

[brisk finch]

nono it was always heroin

[dapper willow]

I did wormway route on my steel soul

[wintry prairie]

What did team cherry mean by this

[wintry prairie]

Have you done the sister splinter skip? That one was fun

[ebon silo]

I'm guessing we'll finally see the god of lifeblood or whatever rules it considering how it's been in the world of HK for so long because of Eva's dialogue about it and considering Eva is been alive for so so long

[charred nimbus]

I suffered a bit on sister splinter skip but it's not too hard

[brisk finch]

Mossblood and muckblood quotes
If you want to read all of it, cntrl f in the document

[wintry prairie]

It can be annoying if they just don’t want to go up

[dapper willow]

Not yet
Maybe I'll skip her to fight her later

[charred nimbus]

Guys, does anyone know what the Shakra's rings are called in real life or if they make the same sound of the in game ones? i'm thinking of buying a pair just to poshanka in real life

[finite cave]

fast food simulator dlc whwre you rebuild bone bottom with the funds but also expand your empire until the main hq of tbe fasts food company ascends to the cradle which wakes gms up and you have to fight her to hire her and get the employed silk ending

[wintry prairie]

They’ve been teasing a lifeblood entity for ages

[ebon silo]

Wait

[rain gate]

i just got mentally flashbanged by gms in a mcdonalds uniform

[ebon silo]

Scout why are you in a padded room

[ebon silo]

Already?

[wintry prairie]

Savage beastfly

[ebon silo]

You ate the fly??

[brisk finch]

That's why I think it's interesting that nothing remains of their original plans for lifeblood in skong
The only thing in-game was a questline originally not about it

[wintry prairie]

Crunchy

[charred nimbus]

I mean, that's not really the problem, as soon as they pass the first top block they will always go up, but i think you need to pogo then in the first elevating sequence, otherwise it'll be hell after

[ebon silo]

I cannot wait for the obvious duo fight for phantom and lace in godmaster

[charred nimbus]

I don't think that will be happening

[ebon silo]

think it as the mantis lords y'know you get to switch different modes

prime phantom and lace they are siblings

[charred nimbus]

My best bet on this take is problaby the three prinstress, i can't see Phantom and Lace fighting together

[rain gate]

three?

[wintry prairie]

Yeah it’s disappointing, I do like how they showed the negative sides of lifeblood tho

[ebon silo]

Oh yes garauntee the pinstresses

[ebon silo]

One in blasted steps
One in far fields
Dead in bilewater

[rain gate]

ohhhh
i didnt know about the bilewater one

[wintry prairie]

Shot dead in bilewater

[ebon silo]

That's where you get the wreath of purity

[brisk finch]

I absolutley loved it, it just also makes me wonder what Lifeblood Spire would've been, and what else they may have played with

Although it's also possible the plasmium thing was originally intended to be lifeblood, then they tried other things (moss/muck) and then went back to lifeblood

[ebon silo]

I'm assuming the origin of lifeblood or?

[brisk finch]

We just don't know

[ebon silo]

It could be a territory of the lifeblood

just not the competitive type of territory like you can invade it but invading it comes with a huge price

[brisk finch]

For context, I'm talking about this thing

[ebon silo]

yeah it could territory of the god of controls lifeblood or something

[charred nimbus]

Bro, f lifeblood spire, WHERE IS GREYMOOR MANSION?

[brisk finch]

This is one of the very first maps XD

[terse warren]

Imo it was just Act 3 Wormways ngl

[brisk finch]

But the alchemist plot took place in moss/muck areas originally

[charred nimbus]

I know, but i am actually missing the mansion now that i know of it's cut existence

[brisk finch]

Hence my wonder

[terse warren]

... And the spire is to the right of Greymoor, which is where muck is right now

[brisk finch]

Lifeblood Spire-> in-game Wormways feels like a normal transition
Until I learned about the mossblood/muckblood thing

Clearly they merged ideas at some point, I'm just wondering what was left on the cutting room floor

[wintry prairie]

Picture this, you just beat the last pantheon. You are tired and exhausted. The screen flashes white and then
|| the eternal ordeal ||

[proud swan]

Hey, is there a needolin dialogue when you play the needolin next to the bilewaters Snail Shaman?

[charred nimbus]

It's so sad that dataminers exist, it would be a wonderful world of everyone thinking the lifeblood spire was still in the game but nobody had any idea how to get there

[ebon silo]

There is a shaman in bilewater?

[wintry prairie]

It’s what you get the soul from

[charred nimbus]

The one that Groal eat their soul

[proud swan]

Yeah he is dead

[wintry prairie]

It’s why groal has fireballs

[brisk finch]

Something like that happened 😄 There's an unused bit of map in both high halls and bellhart

It's on the datamined map and thus the interactive map online
byt not in game

It doesn't exist
Has driven people mad

[ebon silo]

We live in a world of cruelty and brutality realize it and you'll live

[ebon silo]

I thought groal was just that guy

[wintry prairie]

He is but he also stole soul of a dead dude

[brisk finch]

There's also the "datamined pale king crest" that's actually just the old design for the hunter crest
A lot of people appear to have the visuals but not the names?

[charred nimbus]

You need to get the soul from the dead snail shaman to enter act 3

[brisk finch]

The file names tell you a lot!

So even with datamining, there's still mysteries

[ebon silo]

Wait wait did the snail shamans talk about their friend or are they just deadass assholes like they are

[charred nimbus]

i mean, they were family, they mention then

[brisk finch]

They mention the idiot who tried to reason with bilewater or something

I don't have the quote in front of me

[ebon silo]

What kind of idiot reason with bilewater like it's garauntee death over there

[charred nimbus]

Exactly

[wintry prairie]

They thought they could make an alliance with the stilkin against the citadel

[ebon silo]

I think it was the care taker

[ebon silo]

Oh reasonable idea they're home got erm destroyed and all but

[wintry prairie]

Yeah but it turned the stilkin hated everyone soooo

[charred nimbus]

I want pale king crest 😔

[terse warren]

Wiki says no but it can be wrong

[prime talon]

I want to make sure I'm not going crazy. Just got true ending, and I'm pretty sure that the shade that rescued hornet was THK, not the knight. The horns are a bit hard to see, but they look more like THK's from flashbacks than those of the knight

[brisk finch]

Grant me your aid, sir. If your trap provides a path to freedom, both for myself and your land’s bugs, I may indeed choose to trigger it.What work do you need of me now to see your service made?It’s my family’s strength you’ll need be seeking, bellringer, us three ol’ bugs still alive, spread ‘cross this kingdom, and one poor cousin dead and drained in swamps choked rotten.Each has power. Raw, savage stuff! For you, they’ll give it, if for their fascination at the act, or the thrill of defiance... or because they have no choice at all.

[ebon silo]

"you want us to team up so we can beat the citadel? But hold on you look like a citadel citizen"

[wintry prairie]

It’s the knights horns, they change a bit when he loses his shell

[charred nimbus]

It is the knight, that's a common misconception

You can check the knight void form sprite from the first game

[brisk finch]

Find the husk of my cousin, claimed by the scorned bugs of the swamps. A careless fool to let himself be taken, and dead they might be, but some glimmer of his soul can still be sensed.

[prime talon]

Oh, ok. I was very confused for a bit

[wintry prairie]

And then they ganked him 😭

[ebon silo]

The HK shade is literally massive

[brisk finch]

here it is, the snail dialogue

[proud swan]

Ok I just found out what I was confused about. Groal the great is called SWAMP_SHAMAN in the files

[wintry prairie]

Yeah plus we see their shade in dream no more

[ebon silo]

"hold on groal hold on let me get his rosaries before we send him to the chef in sinners road"

[brisk finch]

if you search for a character's name, you can often find their trigger name too in the text dump

[brisk finch]

altho sometimes different triggers use either

[wintry prairie]

I think the worst part is that they drained the shaman of his soul while he was alive

[ebon silo]

okay I take back the idiocy for the snail shamans he had reasonable ideas but the stilkin hated everyone so not his fault entirely

[brisk finch]

Groal was also just called that, ay

(First name=added for clarity. Second name=actual file name)

[charred nimbus]

Groal looks like he needs some sleep, that's problaby why he hates everyone

[brisk finch]

nah he hates everyone because the citadel shit in his home and turned it into bilewater

i'd hate everyone too

[proud swan]

Isnt it weird that he is called Shaman? Is there any chance he is like the actual shaman?

[ebon silo]

And yet they kept the pintress alive or did she live there after the shaman long passed or was she already there before the shaman arrived

[charred nimbus]

i tought of that too...

[wintry prairie]

She probably just died on her own

[brisk finch]

In the current game? No
Originally designed as them? Possibly

[wintry prairie]

Her body is in the ducts which wasn’t under stilkin control

[proud swan]

We know for sure what happened to the snail shaman in bilewater?

[brisk finch]

We find their soul seperate

[ebon silo]

Her home got destroyed bro she must've got ganked by something

[proud swan]

I mean the whole eating the shaman etc

[maiden meteor]

Snail Shaman fight would go hard

[wintry prairie]

The stilkin killed him by draining his soul

[charred nimbus]

I mean, look at this place, it was beutiful before the citadel

[proud swan]

Well the bell hermit also gives us a separate soul

[brisk finch]

Yes but it's still with them

+Ye Groal is confirmed to have been eatin people

[brisk finch]

Right tho?\

[ebon silo]

Out of revenge really

[brisk finch]

Entirely valid, yes!

[wintry prairie]

Groal is an asshole but his methods are understandable

[brisk finch]

I've alread y commented on this, but I love how many enemies are just goombas lol

[ebon silo]

I wonder what was bilewater before now we could picture it being just like purified ducts much cleaner and was probably a huge lake of sorts but erm something something citadel

[brisk finch]

Never change, TC

[ebon silo]

I really hope we get a sort of needolin DLC basically the dream nail but we go inside a memory instead of a dream..of an entire region

[charred nimbus]

The Fleatopia place and the place on Shakra's quest seen to be what Bilewater used to look like

[brisk finch]

I do hope we get a new region of some kind, but I hope it's one that we haven't seen yet

[wintry prairie]

I mean, white palace

So we will probably get something like that eventually

I can’t wait for the silksong platform segment

[brisk finch]

i really do need a proper path of pain with these mechanics

[ebon silo]

Verdania because of the green prince but how about an actual regions memory directly? Like straight up we start singing to the sands of karak and see what it was before

[wintry prairie]

We certainly got a taste

[brisk finch]

Mount Fay was a tutorial for Cradle (to surface) and Cradle still isn't hard enough

It's really fun tho

[charred nimbus]

I was cooking a headcanon DLC days ago where you kept climbing up from Mount Fay and you actually used the Faydorn as fast travel instead of Bell beast...

[wintry prairie]

Verdania is sort of shallow tho

[ebon silo]

Very minor so yeah

[wintry prairie]

Like yes it’s beautiful but it really only sets up the clover dancers

[wintry prairie]

You take the fast travel and it’s just POP

[ebon silo]

For an entire region though? Thats literally 2 games in 1

[brisk finch]

Coral Tower and Verdania clearly exist for out of universe reasons
They had all of this stuff, some of it absolutely beautiful, but it no longer had a place in the game
I just can't see them adding it back in in any way
but a new region, a proper region accessed in a similar way? That would be cool

Altho wirth "region" I mean
One colored block on the map

Not a kingdom

[wintry prairie]

I saw someone make concept for the steel city which was interesting

[ebon silo]

New area? I suppose

[brisk finch]

Steel City is likely, altho they could also do something closer to Grim, where they have a small base as they chase Hornet around (or maybe that whole plot has been rewritten)

[midnight zinc]

It’s just Dubai probably

[wintry prairie]

They could easily bring back the troupe also

[ebon silo]

Below it had a weaver so it seems the city of steel not only dabbled in steel but silk too mfs think they're the British or something

[ebon silo]

Never happening though i don't think you should reuse assets unless we turn it up a notch or 2 or 3 actually

[willow bolt]

ok chat hear me out. what if the world is just abyss at the core

[brisk finch]

lol ye that's a fair beta name

[ebon silo]

How would the world rotate

[willow bolt]

magical abyss powers

[ebon silo]

Anything else other than magic

[midnight zinc]

I thought this was already implied

[willow bolt]

The abyss could be quite dense the further you go

[ebon silo]

Isn't it just water

That just happened to have tendrils in it

[brisk finch]

Nah it's more viscous

[proud swan]

well it would be the center of gravity, and a black hole is a center of gravity, thats the connection I can make

[wintry prairie]

I’m not saying to reuse assets I’m saying they can easily reuse the concept

A stronger troupe

[wild zinc]

Also I haven’t seen anyone talk about this but don’t you guys think it’s kinda interesting how victims of the haunting seem to retain most of their conscience unlike with the infection

[midnight zinc]

As much as I liked Grimm, that’d be kinda boring. They’re already reusing a bit of stuff from HK with the void returning, the troupe doesn’t have to show up everywhere

[brisk finch]

Living victims, ye, but even Myla still knew her songs for a while. The resurrected corpses are much the same

[ebon silo]

Trobbios revenge

"This DLC introduces you to trobbio and his theatrical fanatics and you will fight him in his memory twice and uncover the lore of the construction of his theater and the citadel!"

[brisk finch]

I think meeting a grown up Grimmchild and thus, a new version of Grimm could be a neat spin on it

[wintry prairie]

I mean the void seems to be just a universal force

[ebon silo]

Where would this grimmchild come from

[wintry prairie]

And they could just ditch Grimm and have someone new

[brisk finch]

It's be Grimm but Not

[brisk finch]

Ghost? Back in HK?

[wintry prairie]

The one you raise in HK

[brisk finch]

That's why we raise them

Clearly Grimmchild didn't join us in the abyss so... free real estate

[wintry prairie]

If I have to hear “TROBBIO” one more time im never getting out of this padded room

[midnight zinc]

I mean Grimm was once a Grimmchild, so it’d be pretty much the same. Unless you mean this Grimm recognizes Hornet or smth, which feels like it’s bordering on fan service

[ebon silo]

Right but the knight is dead and garauntee I don't think the grimmchild went anywhere

[brisk finch]

I'd say that there's no reason to think that every Grimm is identical when they were "raised" in different ways

[ebon silo]

For all we know the entire time the charm for grimmchild was on with the knight during the radiance fight and it died with him ending the nightmare heart rule 🥀

[brisk finch]

You finish the ritual before ending the game tho, timeline wise

[midnight zinc]

Yeah but there’s no reason to believe this one would be more powerful

[brisk finch]

You could easily say that it stayed behind and went back to a troupe

[willow bolt]

I cant wait to have a Grimm that's just a smug bastard and it turns out it was raised by Zote

[brisk finch]

I didn't say more powerful 😄

[ebon silo]

I guess

[brisk finch]

I said different

[ebon silo]

but surely they wouldn't add the nightmare troupe again but rather it's trobbios turn

[brisk finch]

I don't even think Trobbio is related in any way

[wintry prairie]

Plot twist

Can’t wait for absolute zote in the pantheons

[brisk finch]

I don't think they'd repeat full dlcs, but that doesn't exclude a character existing

[ebon silo]

that's the point it's something new considering the entire fight of NKG and the other one was just a dance it could reflect for trobbio since that his battle ground is dance

[midnight zinc]

This person said more powerful, that’s what I was responding to. Like sure maybe Grimm could show up but there’s far more interesting things they could do than just continually bring back old characters.

[brisk finch]

If we get an outside journey dlc, having a Grimm troupe encounter without the bossfights would still be lore building

[ebon silo]

I suppose

[brisk finch]

Ye I'm arguing this Grimm wouldn't be an old character, unless we count Grimmchild itself as a character (which... it's a minion charm XD)
That's what makes it interesting to me

[ebon silo]

Or better yet... Halloween flea caravan

And they suspiciously look like the Grimm troupe because they found red clothing in wisp thicket

[brisk finch]

I also need The Hollow Knight (and Ghost) to be at Fleatopia, yes

Ghost would be more difficult to wrangle, but there's technically nothing stopping Post Godhome THK from visiting 😄

[ebon silo]

I'm guessing past fight?

[brisk finch]

hm?

I don't understand your comment

[ebon silo]

Let me explain

[brisk finch]

OH WAIT

Nono, THK just survives in the Godhome endings

[midnight zinc]

I could see THK appearing in some capacity if it involves the steel city, maybe not literally being there, but I think the vessels could definitely be mentioned or shown

[brisk finch]

They;re up and walking

[ebon silo]

are you sure 😭

[brisk finch]

Yes? It's shown? On screen?

[left oyster]

"Collect my evil fleas of whimsy and halloween wonder"

No Mooshka

"Pale oil"

Yes Mooshka

[ebon silo]

Wow I don't remember let me check

[brisk finch]

If it's been a while, please rewatch the endings and you'll understand why I think the Godhome endings are the most interesting as pre-Silksong context

Even if DNM may flow nicer within Hollow Knight itself

[ebon silo]

And you fight nightmare king mooshka

[midnight zinc]

And I think the actual ending to SS shows that TC is willing to follow up on specific endings, so I don’t see why it’s impossible for THK to show back up. Especially since when they wrote that ending of it surviving and encountering Hornet, they already knew they were giving her her own game

[brisk finch]

RIGHT
Godhome was written WHEN SILKSONG ALREADY EXISTED AS A CONCEPT

[left oyster]

This is why i'm making concepts for a fanmade installment with THK as the protag

Hollow Knight 3: It's Actually The Protag's Name This Time

[brisk finch]

And it suddenly has white flower visuals and stuff, that's no coincidence

[ebon silo]

Oh the thing that met hornet in the godhome ending was the hollow knight? I thought it was the knight

[brisk finch]

Knight/Ghost is the tiny one that becomes the Shade Lord
THK is the big one (also stays big as a shade as shown in DNM, hence you can tell they're not visible in Skong's ending)

[ebon silo]

His ass would be hella massive and wtf would his moveset be unless HK3 is a...3D game AAAAAAA

[brisk finch]

We never see Ghost big

[midnight zinc]

Oh not to mention the Everblooms being relevant to one of the HK endings and then being massively important because of their interaction with the void, yeah it’s pretty obvious ETV and the alternate godhome ending were considered the most when making SS, so yeah THK being alive cliffhanger could definitely be followed up on

[left oyster]

This can be easily fixed by making all the enemies equally as massive
Giant bug kingdom

[solid badge]

SS ending shows both True and Godhome endings. I see it as the canon ending being True Ending, with a chance for Godhome. Personally I prefer True Ending. I do want to see HK living past his purpose.

[brisk finch]

It shows godhome exclusive visuals while it does that
Nothing prevents Ghost from showing up small, but DNM Ghost didn't just ascend off screen

[ebon silo]

Or better just...no changes and it's just him that's massive and he just wacks everyone but you have a massive hotbox and you lose 3 shells because you are far weaker than what you were

[left oyster]

Also the movesets I had an idea for a prosthetic arm mechanic that functions similarly to crests where you can unlock multiple that alter your moveset

[wicked fossil]

Yeah I think Dream No More fits better thematically and feels like a satisfying conclusion to the Vessels' tragic creation and purpose

[brisk finch]

DNM is the nicest HK ending, ETV/DF are the better Skong prequel

[left oyster]

DNM is from when a sequel wasnt really on the table for team cherry

Their vision changed

[brisk finch]

Both based on real life context and what's shown in Skong itself

[subtle plaza]

Both can be canon at the end of the day

[brisk finch]

They liteally cannot be

[wicked fossil]

Yeah true

[subtle plaza]

I'm personally fine with either

[brisk finch]

Either THK is dead or it's not
Either Ghost is Shade lord, or it's not

They can't both be true at once

[subtle plaza]

No not at once

Thats not what i meant.

[brisk finch]

Then they're not both canon to Skong

Neither is a "true end" to HK, but that's not the argument
HK doesn't have a true end, but Skong does have a true/canon past

[subtle plaza]

I meant, like, individually.

[ebon silo]

Y'know it WOULD be incredibly be crazy if in the later DLCs of skong we can deadass see THK if godhome ending was the canon one

[midnight zinc]

It shows the knight with the Voidheart, no reason it couldn’t be the ETV ending version taking its shade form willingly. And again, considering how the everblooms were relevant to one of the godhome endings, then were massively important in the same way in SS, shows that they had that ending in mind when making SS. So I think we’re supposed to focus on that ending when connecting HK to SS. And since that ending is a cliffhanger of Hornet meeting THK, idk it’s definitely possible.

[ebon silo]

like imagine seeing your grown up sibling

[brisk finch]

Something happened before Skong took place, and debates over endings are trying to decide on what
Within HK itself, both are equally valid and yes, DNM flows nicer

[left oyster]

Then it becomes a sequel because it got too big,

9 year wait

[brisk finch]

BTW, the only reason I think this matters is because it tells us whether there's a reason to expect a follow up on Godhome's cliffhanger regarding THK

[hushed viper]

i'd assume the cages in the cradle are all used to transport weavers from wherever they were to the cradle by the people of the citadel

[brisk finch]

I never expected it, but I also didn't expect Skong to confirm where it lands

[prisma quail]

Why does the void make enemies tougher and abyssified?

[brisk finch]

Yes, you can find Hornet's info too

[prisma quail]

Does it want to attack Hornet?

[midnight zinc]

Tbf we didn’t even know void would be in the game until the release trailer

[brisk finch]

I didn't even realize it'd be in game, I just thought it was a nice visual callback to hk :DDD

Altho the first map does just say "void cult" lol

[midnight zinc]

Well we also knew arcane eggs would show up so that kinda spoils it

[brisk finch]

So that was on the table early

[hushed viper]

that got me thinkin tho, are the people of the citadel really that strong? or are weavers just mostly weaken cuz after reading some of them, the people they send out aren't really that strong like they bring only the bell guys and sometimes even a reed (like, the sword bearing choir guys not even the flying ones), like not even the giant guys?

[brisk finch]

A lot of people die kidnapping quarter weavers, if you read the note carefully

[hushed viper]

i mean yes int he end the cage itself does the work cuz it weakens them or something but still they gotta subdue them into the cage somehow

[brisk finch]

For every part weaver, multiple die
I'd say that's pretty strong

[hushed viper]

yea it ik that but still they are sending really few people

[brisk finch]

Hornet is the only half

All of them have less Weaver in them than her

[hushed viper]

ig that makes sense

[solid badge]

Weavers are part Pharlid, part Silk. Hot take?

[hushed viper]

so the weavers they collect are half weavers like hornet

[prisma quail]

Why does GMS still haunt enemies in act 3? Wouldn’t she just be trying to hold off the void?

[brisk finch]

If multiple die taking in someone who isn't a full Weaver, then it stands to reason that taking out a full Weaver would be Difficult

[midnight zinc]

One fly captures Hornet and brings her to the Slab

[brisk finch]

She's just lashing out in general, she was never gonna survive

[hushed viper]

yea it is strange how pharlids are very weaver like, the mask, the sharp claws, the dark spiderlike appendages

not to mention PHARlids like PHARloom

[brisk finch]

Not in my canon/game 😉
More seriously, they surprise her with the cage which also has a mark of binding seemingly

[ebon silo]

Right I gotta ask if THK did comeback how did hornet got captured unless she was ambushed? But then if she was then surely the hollow knight would come look for her? But how would she been captured if surely THK was with her for maybe after godhome ending and whatever

[terse warren]

Frigid take

[brisk finch]

Is that a joke?

[terse warren]

Stone cold

[hushed viper]

she was caught off guard (me i was)

[brisk finch]

TBF, we don't know their sibling isn't coming for them
Or maybe they chose to part ways immediately

[hushed viper]

no i mean like gng both weavers and pharlids have attacks where they reveal sharp claws and thrash around, ik it's not only them but besides that they have similiar eye marks(?) and are both spiderlike

[brisk finch]

Weavers are uplifted pharlids

[terse warren]

THK doesn't show up to keep the ambiguity about the endings

[hushed viper]

yea that makes sense

[midnight zinc]

I mean presumably she wasn’t captured right after the events of the first game, some time has probably passed. A lot of time probably. THK either returned to the Abyss with the other shades, or maybe just left Hallownest. I wouldn’t wanna stay there if I’d been trapped for eons there

[brisk finch]

We see this in the first sinner cutscene

[hushed viper]

yea fair

[brisk finch]

The ambiguity of showing an ending exclusive Ghost form?

[hushed viper]

wait does that mean grandma silk was once a pharlid too

[terse warren]

If EtV is even the ending*

[prisma quail]

The reason GMS is collecting weavers is to recover her silk back right? So she must be a really weak god?

[hushed viper]

more like a weaken god

[terse warren]

We see both the siblings and VGFocus to keep ambiguity

[midnight zinc]

We already went over this like five minutes ago, it probably is

[brisk finch]

it's unlikely THK returned to the abyss, because they keep their big form there
If that was TC's intent, showing them in the final cutscene would've successfully created ambiguity on which ending si canon, at least

[terse warren]

The chat went over this 50 times, it's ambiguous between EtV or DnM

[brisk finch]

This is a daily conversation topic

[terse warren]

And the answer is always that no one can agree, which kinda proves it's ambiguous

[brisk finch]

I can;t wait for Mossbag to throw his hat in the ring for sealed siblings

[midnight zinc]

I mean they kept it ambiguous as to whether or not ALL the endings were canon until the new game came out, now we know that the first two can’t be. Wouldn’t surprise me if they narrow it down further with future content

[terse warren]

?tag info jokerpsa

[gleaming basin]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgzlVc4LM4J6_DfuscZ4AaABCQ

No ending stops Hornet from being captured, and the ability to break seals with bugs from Pharloom makes Hornet being locked in the Black Egg not an issue. Dreamers also don’t die when sealed, we simply didn’t have the means to remove them without killing them.

[terse warren]

Trust

[brisk finch]

See... I don't think they did? The endings thing was mentioned once, years ago before Godmaster's release
It's not a consistent thing they said

[solid badge]

Tag him with capital M name.

[brisk finch]

They didn't tell us anything about skong for years lol

[brisk finch]

lol no

[terse warren]

Don't @ random people you don't know

[midnight zinc]

That’s what I mean. They said they were all canon before Godmaster was even out. But now we know the basic ending is literally impossible.

[brisk finch]

yeah like, I'm sure he has better things to do
Like playing the game, making videos, going on walks outside

[solid badge]

Sammy knew what was up. I didn't actually mean it. mossbag likes his nickname like this.

[brisk finch]

Ah right, then we agree

Although I wouldn't even say that was ambiguous

the quote is that they don't believe in true endings

That's still true, HK doesn't have 1 ending that's clearly "real"

Like, think of say a Persona game
The investigation squad clearly canonically did not let the killer go free, cmon

[terse warren]

It's been more than 7 years ngl chat I think TC walked back on their choice of no true ending lol

[silk dirge]

yeah

[brisk finch]

Ye, it was clearly a design ethos for HK, but Skong is just... different. It's a sequel that came years after

[terse warren]

They only needed 4 years to scrap motherfuking Coral Gorge surely "no true ending" was a no brainer

[midnight zinc]

It was ambiguous in the sense that how Silksong would follow up all endings seemed implausible and impractical, but people were convinced they’d leave things ambiguous in the new game so you could connect any endings to it. But they’ve proved they don’t follow up philosophy anymore because they eliminated the possibility of one of the endings. So there’s no reason to believe they can’t do it again with future content and narrow down which endings it follows even further.

[silk dirge]

did any serious person actually think team cherry was going to try making sealed siblings canon

[terse warren]

Yes

Sealed Siblings could've been canon if not for act 3

[brisk finch]

It's been argued here, yes

[silk dirge]

like im sorry but that explanation was very silly 😭

it would not have been a very compelling story for me

[brisk finch]

ye up until act 3 I basically thought like
okay, Hornet has said "sequall-y" things

[solid badge]

What does it leave them with then? Now story can't cut back into itself and they can never show HK. Because if they did, it'd need some serious justification, given that Shade Lord may have happened.

[terse warren]

I already posted jokerpsa, scroll up

[brisk finch]

then act 3's ending was like HERE'S GHOST

[silk dirge]

i know

[midnight zinc]

Technically it still is, the knight has the void heart. But I think it’s clear they don’t want to follow it up, and trying to force that into working feels pointless

[silk dirge]

ive seen it like 50 times

[brisk finch]

Because of Shade Lord, they don't have to justify a living THK 😄

[silk dirge]

im just saying i dont like it it feels very forced of an explanation

[brisk finch]

THK is fine because of Shade Lord

[silk dirge]

like yeah its possible but it doesnt feel intended

[brisk finch]

Why Hollowsad? I want THK in fleatopia! It's not a serious request but I'd like it!

[terse warren]

Tbh I doubt TC put that much thought

[brisk finch]

There is canonically nothing standing in the way of THK in fleatopia, this is great news!

[slate rapids]

Kinda wish we'd learned more on this guy with the extra focus on Lifeblood

[terse warren]

The guy is gonna kill the fleas by accident

[brisk finch]

I mean, Godmaster being written with Silksong kind of makes me think they did to a degree

[wintry flame]

lowkey is father of the flame a skewred attempt of summining the homeless troupe

[brisk finch]

They have helmets, it's fine

[terse warren]

No just a guy waiting to get cremated

[solid badge]

My issue with Godhome is that it feels so very... imagined. A treat for people wanting a challenge. Encompasing a kingdom's future in one special bug with exceptional focus is a tough sell to me.

[silk dirge]

send him to whiteward if thats what he wants

[wintry flame]

the mask feels off

[terse warren]

That's a normal Spirit Mask

[brisk finch]

That's why I think it's a nice prequel to Skong, but that DNM is the nicer HK ending
Because Godhome leaves stuff open for us like THK and Shade Lord

[wintry flame]

i might be seeing things

[midnight zinc]

I suppose it would be out of place in Pharloom given its apparent connection with the dream realm

[terse warren]

The Haunting happened like yesterday, the kingdom is not dead, there's no reason for Grimm to come by

[wintry flame]

i do think wisp thicket is a bit off

[silk dirge]

i hope we get some sort of wisp thicket expansion in dlc

its a cool area

[pale grove]

in what silksong ending do most npcs survive?

[brisk finch]

The wips are a great source of mystery and questions

[terse warren]

Wisp Thicket is just Greymoor before the colonization

[silk dirge]

idk how theyd do it tho bc its kinda crammed in there

[silk dirge]

yeah that i know

[wintry flame]

yeah i'm a grimm in silksong hater extraordinaire but still there's a very strange feeling gamewise with WT

[silk dirge]

but like about the wisp cult

[wintry flame]

and it's not like karak

[flint wadi]

why cant wisp thicket just be a cute lil transitionary area

[silk dirge]

i want to know whats up with them

[flint wadi]

why does it have to be grand it doesnt even have the scale for that

[terse warren]

Probably TE because WQ and TC are kinda messy

[brisk finch]

The wisp stuff would be new, even if it may harken back to familiar ideas

[wintry flame]

because it feels weird as FUCK!

[pale grove]

eh?

[flint wadi]

no it doesnt stop making up problems with tiny areas, theyre tiny for a reason

[terse warren]

True Ending, Weaver Queen, Twisted Child

[flint wadi]

wisp thicket is a greymoor subarea

[terse warren]

Ig rather than TE I should say SotV

[brisk finch]

It's not the area, it's the laughing fire death cult that burns themselves alive

[wintry flame]

what do you mean making up problems

[flint wadi]

it has an appropriate amount of content for said sub area

[wintry flame]

i just find it weird that there's a cult of guys worshipping fire in a thematically separate sub area

[brisk finch]

I don't even believere there is a deity looking over them and I want to know more

[terse warren]

Because it's one of the few areas in the game that are colorful and I like colors

[midnight zinc]

God forbid men have hobbies

[brisk finch]

Yes it appears that GMS did forbid that

[terse warren]

Tbh a tiny bit more info on wtf the wisps are wouldn't have been awful

[brisk finch]

NOW GET TO WORK

[pale grove]

but doesnt Garmond die in true ending?

[flint wadi]

its a cool way to differentiate it

[wintry flame]

the burning bugs self immolate afte FOTF and there literally is no point in coming back

it's so strange in a certain sense

[flint wadi]

sure, just off the way people speak of it feels like they expect way more

[terse warren]

A lot of people die in WQ and TC lol

[brisk finch]

More named NPCs die in TE, but more people probably die in WQ and TC

[pale grove]

yeah but i care about garmond more

[flint wadi]

the flame cult can be ambiguous its kinda half the beauty of wisp thicket

[pale grove]

i dont care about the nonnamed npcs

let them die

[flint wadi]

felt this

[terse warren]

We can also assume a lot of named npcs die in WQ and TC too tho

[wintry flame]

true

[brisk finch]

I care about the npc originally hiding in the bonebottom bellway :((( poor thing

[terse warren]

It's dead

[brisk finch]

True, but there's plausible deniablity

[brisk finch]

yes that's why I'm sad

[wintry flame]

i really wanna know what the twisted siblings parasite looks like

[brisk finch]

One theory is that White Lady was born from something like it

[terse warren]

I do wish for some more root lore

[brisk finch]

As she's also a root

Higher being+parasite=root higher being

[terse warren]

Her being born from absorbing a pale being and that's why she's pale would be interesting

[pale grove]

the devil

[flint wadi]

idk call be ignorant but i feel like WQ is less about absolute doom and death for everyone and moreso about the state of pharloom not really changing

[wintry flame]

no i feel like you nailed it

[brisk finch]

Well yes, but the current state is not sustainable

[solid badge]

First guess is that Greyroot is an old root. Parasite will grow like her. Far less effort than Grimm Troupe's whole ritual.

[brisk finch]

It's giving "Soon to be Hallownest" vibes

[terse warren]

Well there's a lot more silk covering the citadel which is definitely interesting lol but yeah more or less that's what it is

[flint wadi]

feels like a longterm problem but yes

[brisk finch]

Right, in TE it's a kingdom that can possibly rebuild and grow

[midnight zinc]

Yknow it has always bothered me how the WL has less of a backstory than Unn and the Nightmare Heart, considering how important she is to the main story. But it would be interesting if her higher/pale being status is somehow owed to the PK, and before encountering each other she was more like Greyroot

[brisk finch]

Or well
no monarch
republic

[flint wadi]

like i dont think people die the moment hornet takes in the reigns

[terse warren]

Tbh I'm always happy for more pre-weaver/pre-chorus lore so still would've been nice

[raw verge]

I don't totally understand grandmother silk, is she fully awake prior to our fight? Is she depowered? what's her deal?

[brisk finch]

It also depends on how you see the achievement/menu style/wish name
Is the new creature Greyroot reborn, or is it a seperate entity like it

[pale grove]

all i care about is zaza,Garmond and shakra not dying

[flint wadi]

most likely depowered

[terse warren]

She only fully wakes up for the fight methinks

[brisk finch]

It appears she's been half awake for a good while, she wakes up properly when we enter but she's still not 100%

[terse warren]

But she's been waking, and also she's def depowered

[wintry flame]

the entire point of the citadel is keeping GMS asleep right

[brisk finch]

That is why the Weavers made it,yes

[midnight zinc]

Probably a new entity? It’s also confusing because the WL clearly reproduces way differently than Greyroot.

[wintry flame]

yeah hence the song element of silk song

[raw verge]

wait, the weavers made the citadel? I thought gm silk did

[terse warren]

"Church and prison" it's also a place of Worship to GMS but yeah

[terse warren]

Silk didn't do anything

[pale grove]

why didnt weavers just kill gm silk. or was she too strong to kill her

[brisk finch]

We know WL can make eggs, but she may just be a different type fo route
Or it's an ability from her pale being/higher being "parent"

[terse warren]

It's not exactly easy to kill a higher being

Also, they just didn't want to

[brisk finch]

Since they trapped her first and then fled when it appeared she was even slightlky waking, I think they just didn't think they'd win

[raw verge]

are there any other weavers left? is it just us left?

[midnight zinc]

I mean considering the PK is the vessels’ father, I think it’s implied they just got it on and reproduced that way lol

[flint wadi]

wait whats TE

[brisk finch]

There may still be (part) weavers in other places either mentioned in the cradle (if they didn't kidnap the sole weaver there) or unmentioned

[pale grove]

there was the widow and first sinner but hornet killed them

[brisk finch]

true ending/act 3

[wintry flame]

true ending i assume

[terse warren]

The only dead higher beings we see are

Radiance, killed by Void
Silk, killed by Void
Pale King, killed by himself

[flint wadi]

oh sotv

[brisk finch]

Nope, it's eggs

[midnight zinc]

What

[pale grove]

also we see one weaver in hollow knight still alive

[brisk finch]

The vessels come from eggs

[flint wadi]

man is hornet stupid for not seeing through the plan or what

[midnight zinc]

…yes, that the WL birthed after reproducing with the Pale King

[flint wadi]

im kidding

[brisk finch]

It's why she takes the blame, yes. She also sees through the snail disguises and trusts them anyway without asking questions

[terse warren]

I find It hard to believe that we're the only weaver left

[brisk finch]

I love her 😄

[terse warren]

Actually yes canonically

[midnight zinc]

@brisk finch wait do you think the vessels aren’t actually related to the PK?

[pale grove]

in hollow knight you can catch a glimpse of a weaver running away

[raw verge]

what's the deal with sherma? were they truly sinless? how would the judge even know?

[brisk finch]

Oh in that sense, yes PK can fuck. He also has that dalliance with Herrah
No reason to think WL and PK didn't

[wintry flame]

snail shamans look like an untrustable bunch

[brisk finch]

NONO I MISUNDERSTOOD YOUR EARLIER STATEMENT

[midnight zinc]

Okay cool

[keen axle]

They just know

[terse warren]

She

1. Knows the Shamans are Snail Shamans
2. Knows that the Shamans are number 1 Void fans for some reason
3. Trusts them anyways

[terse warren]

Unironically vibes

[brisk finch]

I thought you meant "conventional" as a live birth

[wintry flame]

Knows that the Shamans are number 1 Void fans for some reason
this was weird to me for a lot of reasons

[midnight zinc]

Oh no obviously not, the entire concept of vessels is contingent on them coming from eggs

[terse warren]

Maybe because they were confirmed to not know anything about the Void in the first game

[keen axle]

Ye hk didn't make that point

[brisk finch]

Ye it's why I was confused by your statement lol

[flint wadi]

this is so funny

but i like it feels like an organic flaw

[brisk finch]

One of them was confirmed not to know

[pale grove]

and those eggs being embraced by the void so they're hollow

[wintry flame]

yeah exactly

[terse warren]

"Not that MY KIND ever thought to look there"

[raw verge]

so like, what's the deal after the end? are we just kinda waiting on more detail/do we think there'll be anything after rescuing lace?

[wintry flame]

they seemed to meddle with soul but tampering with the void looks like such a weird thing for them to do

[terse warren]

What, are they keeping secrets at the family function?

[keen axle]

What if the void just destroyed the eggs and left nothing

[brisk finch]

No True Scottsman falacy, duh

(Kidding, kidding)

[midnight zinc]

I think it’s implied that she knows the Shamans have some connection to void, but they also manipulate soul and use more traditional spells, so perhaps she just assumed it had more to do with that. But I suppose that’s just wishful thinking on her part and she was desperate.

[scenic stirrup]

I beat nkg for the first time earlier i didnt feel anything, just relief chat and im supposed to do pure vessel and absrad after him 💀

[pale grove]

dont all void empowered spells we get not come from snail shamans or do i remember it wrong

[brisk finch]

Then it's on to plan Q or something, PK was just trying whatever he could at that point

[midnight zinc]

It never went to the abyss, technically not the same thing 🤓

[terse warren]

Caretaker: "You should know well our family's obsessions"

[dire lynx]

people were asking this about embrace the void ending when it first came out. I doubt we will get anything post void escape, though i could be wrong

[flint wadi]

this retcon feels like an association the community wrongfully made and that TC ran with

[random harbor]

Snail Shaman - Reacting to spells - Reacting to Shade Soul

What's this? My vengeful gift has warped within you. You've twisted it into something... else.
Ohohohoh! I knew it. My friend! You're a marvel. Your essence has melded with the spell.
You must have found a powerful source to transform it in such a unique, expressive way.

@cheese_vviz used /npcs misc name: Snail Shaman category: Reacting to spells dialogue: Reacting to Shade Soul

[solid badge]

You get Shriek by Howling in the right room.

[wintry flame]

shriek doesn't but like

[keen axle]

Is the radiance built different? Cus why didn't the pale king just throw hands

[wintry flame]

that's 2/3

[terse warren]

@pale grove

[flint wadi]

cause ive seen people associate snail shamans with void all the time pre silksong

[raw verge]

makes sense, if we do get anything else it'll probably be a godhome style thing or stuff that just fits somewhere prior to the resuce

[dire lynx]

she doesnt exist as a physical entity

[terse warren]

We make the Void spells ourselves

[flint wadi]

yk cause of ddark and shade soul

[brisk finch]

Radiance isn't quite... physical, and it's hard to say if they ever were

[keen axle]

The pale king can also enter dreams

[pale grove]

well

[scenic stirrup]

I wonder if the knight couldve learned nail attacks like what the pure vessel uses

[raw verge]

if there was a godhome thing, that makes me extremely curious how that would work lore wise for silksong....

[pale grove]

she exists only in minds

[brisk finch]

Honestly? Almost certainly, given time and training

[pale grove]

no physical body

[pliant meadow]

With the proper training probably

[keen axle]

Pale king can enter minds do you guys forget where his palace is

[terse warren]

Honestly I don't even mind it as a retcon, while it sucks that it contradicts the first game, having a group of goobers just being a Void fanclub is silly

[scenic stirrup]

No training but still beat a gods ass into oblivion

[raw verge]

why does the needolin work on everyone? like surely it shouldn't work here, right?

[flint wadi]

the spells are just a way to twist something, the void comes from ghost specifically

[brisk finch]

That's not whwere it originally was, there's no reason to think moving it there would have been easy

[dire lynx]

in his own special dream realm, each higher being probably has some subset of their own

[pale grove]

i always saw that as memory of the palace and not the palace itself. wasnt it said that palace long since fell apart

[scenic stirrup]

Lets start powerscaling chat ✍️🔥

[terse warren]

Everyone has silk in them

[flint wadi]

the cousins likely used soul for that

[pliant meadow]

The haunting is of silk & song? That's the only reason I can think of

[wintry prairie]

Everyone and everything in pharloom has silk in their shell

[brisk finch]

The song part is the Weavers keeping GMS asleep

[hidden crater]

It works on nearly everyone except GMS and void controlled enemies

[terse warren]

Either that, or you understand them through singing

[raw verge]

so in theory, the needolin holds no power after gm silk is gone? or if we leave pharloom?

[terse warren]

It doesn't work on anyone who isn't willing or who isn't Haunted

[hidden crater]

Ill go first mossgrub solos hornet

[wintry prairie]

Killing GMS won’t get rid of the silk, just her control over it

[solid badge]

Needolin working in Verdania kinda messes with the temporal order of things.

[wintry flame]

ari gibson was pregnant with whiteward here

[pliant meadow]

Huge flea beats GMS low dif

[wintry prairie]

Gameplay ig

[lime nova]

What.

[brisk finch]

Pharloom just also has a rich culture of music being important, so most people are willing to just sing (this isn't the whole explanation, but I do consider it a part)

[raw verge]

what does it mean to have silk inside at this point? is it kinda just like blood now?

[scenic stirrup]

How many masks does hornet have in og hollow knight if each hit we do to her is like 2 damage

[pliant meadow]

Please never use that expression ever again 😭

[wintry prairie]

I understand what you mean and I don’t like it

[scenic stirrup]

😭

[wintry flame]

am i wrong though

[hidden crater]

Huge flea either solos GMS or gets a nice pet from GMS

[terse warren]

Whiteward really is just Soul Sanctum but it worked uh

[pliant meadow]

No it's just a gross way to say it

[terse warren]

Like, it doesn't work on Gurr

[wintry prairie]

I mean it’s been likely decades or centuries since bugs began injecting themselves with silk and the silk industry kind of just took over the kingdom

[hidden crater]

What witch crest does to a mf

[wintry flame]

it's a stan twitter way of putting it

[pliant meadow]

Nah huge flea has beef with her

[brisk finch]

The generations of silk experiments mean that pretty much every bug has silk inherently in their shell, making them extra susceptible to GMS, but possibly also other silk based magic

[lime nova]

Silk still has power without GMS

[wintry flame]

lowkey what's with snail shamans getting violated

[terse warren]

It's been "generations"

[raw verge]

why would bugs inject themsleves with silk? does it provide power?

[solid badge]

Huge flea would be an epic pillow, suitable for a greater being. In size.

[brisk finch]

Longevity and health

[flint wadi]

its silk

songs can be used to channel silk like its done by widow but gms herself just does that through her will

[wintry prairie]

Immortality

[wintry flame]

what were they even doing to that cousin guy in bilewater

[keen axle]

The moth tribe could have shared thier knowledge plus if he can move the place moving only himself should not be that challenging

[lime nova]

The surgeons of whiteward were using it to "sew them back together"

[hidden crater]

Massive MOSSGRUB IS RIGHT THERE (as long as you avoid the spikes)

[brisk finch]

Find the husk of my cousin, claimed by the scorned bugs of the swamps. A careless fool to let himself be taken, and dead they might be, but some glimmer of his soul can still be sensed.

Grant me your aid, sir. If your trap provides a path to freedom, both for myself and your land’s bugs, I may indeed choose to trigger it.What work do you need of me now to see your service made?It’s my family’s strength you’ll need be seeking, bellringer, us three ol’ bugs still alive, spread ‘cross this kingdom, and one poor cousin dead and drained in swamps choked rotten.Each has power. Raw, savage stuff! For you, they’ll give it, if for their fascination at the act, or the thrill of defiance... or because they have no choice at all.

[pliant meadow]

Extracting the soul power somehow, that's how groal can use VS

[keen axle]

Make you live longer

[terse warren]

They ate him that's why Groal can use Soul

[raw verge]

so silk can just do that, that's not something gm silk did to it?

[brisk finch]

Unless it was one big act

[lime nova]

What you posted of soul sanctum actually. Studying him for soul magic

[wintry prairie]

They figured out that silk just does that

[lime nova]

She's manipulating the silk in their bodies

[raw verge]

where does silk even come from then? weavers?

[wintry prairie]

But GMS can control the silk which led to bad

[wintry flame]

honestly a fight with a snail shaman would've been incredibly cool

[wintry prairie]

GMS and the weavers

[wintry flame]

but we got groal, which is ok

[lime nova]

The bugs of pharloom have silk in their bodies due to generations of surgeries to extend life

[wintry prairie]

Plus their descendants like hornet

[terse warren]

GMS is the primal source of Silk

[flint wadi]

way less "a study" and way more a clinic, i dont mind it it does feel uniquely creepy and thus new

[lime nova]

Weavers still produce silk in their shells though

[scenic stirrup]

Do u think theyll ever add act 4 i am coping

[terse warren]

Because GMS gave them to power to

[wintry flame]

honestly who knows

[terse warren]

Like, all Silk comes from and IS GMS

[raw verge]

coping, if we get anything it'll be a godhome style thing with some lore bomb in it

[wintry flame]

usually i'd be very negative but act 4 smells like oopportunity

[flint wadi]

i honestly just wish there was more of whiteward its ambience is masterfully done

[terse warren]

Not impossible imo

[lime nova]

Yes, but they still have it even when GMS dies. Lace isn't dead after GMS dies lol

[wintry flame]

we're on the same page then

[flint wadi]

wouldnt count on it but never say never

[scenic stirrup]

Honestly act 3 is depressing as fuck

[terse warren]

Yeah? GMS gave em the power to make Silk doesn't mean it disappears when she dies

[wintry flame]

i was overjoyed discovering there was an extra WW room

[raw verge]

with gm silk dead, what would laces role be? just whatever she wants? what if someone steps up and tries to be the new higher being in pharloom?

[lime nova]

Yeah

[terse warren]

How Team Cherry felt making all the most boring areas half the map and all the best ones 5 rooms tops

[wintry flame]

enter my theory: Silk soul mode

you play as lace

[lime nova]

Yeah that's kinda the message. Without GMS, Lace gets to choose her fate

[wintry prairie]

I mean that’s what the true ending leaves us off on

[raw verge]

I'd play that

[maiden meteor]

I just realized all 3 holders of Threefold Melody have their own means of making music

[raw verge]

kind of a shame we couldn't help out phantom

[wintry flame]

i realized all 3 holders of the threefold memory DIE

[maiden meteor]

Conductors have, well, choir, Vaultkeepers have recordings and Architects have this giant music box cylinders in Cogwork Core

[terse warren]

Except Putrified Ducts

Fuck Putrified Ducts

Should've been 0 rooms

Most shitass boringass area in the two games

[hidden crater]

The only saving grace is fleatopia/flea festival thats it

[raw verge]

saw this somewhere but unsure, lace was who freed hornet at the start, right?

[terse warren]

Borderline useless, only saved by the lake and Flea Carnival which is currently the only endgame the game has

[wintry flame]

underworks being so massive shattered me into a zillion pieces

[terse warren]

Most likely but we can't be sure

[wintry flame]

putrified ducts could've been an email

[terse warren]

There are like 5 city of tears in this game it's crazy

[maiden meteor]

add million more rooms to Underworks

[scenic stirrup]

The white ward psalm cylinder went to some analog horror territory

[dire lynx]

Presumably yes, not hard confirmed but we see her 'controlling' the silkflies

[terse warren]

Underworks literally has an east and west section like CoT

[wintry flame]

same with greymoor

[limpid summit]

The fleatopia runback is the worst in the game

[maiden meteor]

just wait till you can blast it for all Bellhart to hear

[wintry flame]

i am not even gonna start on the citadel

[terse warren]

Greymoor is more acceptable tbh

[scenic stirrup]

I have choral chambers ost playing in my bellhome

[terse warren]

Citadel is like 7 areas in a trenchcoat

[raw verge]

are there kickstarter stretch goals that might give us an idea of what lore/areas are left to do? Another thing I feel like I heard about was some steel guy hunting us or something? or did they already do all the kickstarter stuff?

[flint wadi]

idk about that lets consult my tier list

[wintry flame]

steel sharpe is notably missing and so is. his entourage

[terse warren]

The Kickstarter stuff was mostly game one but there is still some stuff to come

[raw verge]

yeah that guy, what's his deal

[terse warren]

Send link need or make this myself

[raw verge]

is he all that's left supposedly aside from whatever they add

[solid badge]

I'm sure we'll love fighting the Steelheart guys

[maiden meteor]

Bilewater in A

[raw verge]

if so calling it now: steelhome. fight all the bosses there

[maiden meteor]

unless they’ll be Steel Soul exclusive

[solid badge]

And it's an anvil!

[scenic stirrup]

Really love deep docks myself but the lava damage man its brutal

[terse warren]

Actually no I don't, you cooked

It would be almost identical lol

[terse warren]

Bilewater is actually goated

[limpid summit]

Sharpe for sure, but some things were just straight up cut from Kickstarter (10 warrior dreams were funded and we only got 7)

[scenic stirrup]

Mount fay was fun

[solid badge]

Perhaps fire bell blue item can soften it for you.

[raw verge]

celeste team cherry edition

[scenic stirrup]

The platforming in skong is a lot better than og hollow knight bc how weighty hornet feels compared to the knight

[terse warren]

How does it feel to have cooking so mid

[wintry flame]

whispering vaults should not be in d it's a b tier area

[maiden meteor]

wild Abyss slander

[terse warren]

Get my fucking Cogwork Core out your C Tier

[wintry flame]

ok dude tier is not a ranking tier

it's untiered

i don't wanna rank wisp thicket

[scenic stirrup]

Thematically underworks is an awesome area but its spooky if u dont have any rosary necklaces saved bc the enemies barely drop any money for the benches and stuff 💀

[keen axle]

Abyss wouldn't be that bad if not for fuckass giant leach that spawns more leeches

[wintry flame]

underworks feels so bad and it's so huge for no reason

[raw verge]

how the heck did the knight find us at the end? is he just big vibing in the void now? what the heck is a shade lord as well, is that the knight?

[wintry flame]

yeah shade lord is tyhe knight

[keen axle]

One with the void

[sinful nimbus]

Goes hard except for mount fay

[flint wadi]

https://tiermaker.com/create/hollow-knight-silksong-areas-17934771 knock yourself out

[sinful nimbus]

Actually no it doesn't I hate this list

[solid badge]

Technically used to be the Knight. Unless his outburst was because he couldn't contain his excitement... Shade Lord is a different personality.

[flint wadi]

sorry my internet went down

[wintry flame]

didn't feel like ranking mount fay

[charred nimbus]

I know, i also suffered in The Mist, but bro, that place is a hard S for me, i'm completely in love with Mist soundtrack and the design of that place

[terse warren]

Star don't tell me you're a Cogwork hater

[wintry flame]

i don't want to rank the mist it's too small

[flint wadi]

i have a filter tier for smaller areas

[wintry flame]

exhaust organ is among the reasons why bilewater is A however

[terse warren]

Mist more like Mid

[flint wadi]

A- is maximum for smaller stuff for example this way they can be appreciated and fairly ranked

[charred nimbus]

That's fair

[terse warren]

Can't even brute force unless you have Needolin

[raw verge]

is that good or bad for him? and what the hecks a shade lord?

[flint wadi]

though i fucking love mt fay so its just at the top for me

[terse warren]

Thank you TC for fucking up low%

[terse warren]

How kind of you

[flint wadi]

haterrrrr

[limpid summit]

Technically you can get super super lucky 10 times in a row

[terse warren]

We could've had no Needolin%

[flint wadi]

you need to go through bellhart to get to sinners road anywayyyyy

[charred nimbus]

You can't progress The Mist without needolin. it's just impossible

[wintry flame]

you can actually make it

[silk dirge]

you can

[terse warren]

You can't

[wintry flame]

i literally just watched a video that shows it's possible

[limpid summit]

Oh are the flies not coded to enter a room unless you actually have it?

[silk dirge]

you can do mount fay without clawline

and go through wisp thicket

[dire lynx]

Shade lord is a combination of the power of the void under the knights will along with the godly focus of the Godseekers

[terse warren]

You need Sharpdart for that

[solid badge]

Isn't it that it was originally possible but TC patched in an additional mechanic which forces all exits to lead into just another maze room?

[terse warren]

Which requires Needolin

[wintry flame]

you don't

[charred nimbus]

i'm not sure how it works, i just know The Mist doesn't work without needolin, even if you try to brute force it

[terse warren]

And you need Needolin anyways to call down Fayhorn

[wintry flame]

you don't

[terse warren]

Yes you do

[silk dirge]

you just pull it out even if you dont have it

[wintry flame]

the game just prompts you

[silk dirge]

since its a cutscene needolin

[terse warren]

That's only in the citadel

[wintry flame]

dude

[terse warren]

It doesn't happen for Fayhorn

[silk dirge]

it is a cutscene needolin there

[wintry flame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEzW_ZVor_I

[silk dirge]

the game does prompt you to pull it out iirc

[keen axle]

Good for him i guess can control it

[terse warren]

Dawg.

[wintry flame]

it's possible.

[charred nimbus]

Bilewater would be really high up in the tierlist for me, not sure how much backlash i would receive for saying i love Bilewater...

[silk dirge]

why would you do this is a good question

[keen axle]

You can brute force mist just get good rng

[silk dirge]

but its cool you can

[silk dirge]

not if you dont have needolin

[charred nimbus]

Mist doesn't work without Needolin

[silk dirge]

there is literally no correct path in the mist without needolin

[flint wadi]

i would only beat you up to death if you said you love Putrified Ducts anything else is fair game

[silk dirge]

bilewater deserves its own tier for me

as in like this area sucks but its meant to suck which actually makes it a 10/10

[keen axle]

So like an invisible wall thing

[sinful nimbus]

Its high B tier

[echo trellis]

Fourth chorus lore?

[flint wadi]

vile, what do you even like dude

[echo trellis]

Why is he in far fields

[finite cave]

fayhorn? the big fluffy guy who knits up your cloak?

[charred nimbus]

i think there's just no correct passages

[flint wadi]

do you even like anything

[silk dirge]

let me get my area tier list

[fading whale]

Can someone tell me what happens to pilby if he leaves bone bottom but we haven't met the conditions to have him go to pilgrim's rest? Do we even know?

[sinful nimbus]

Cogworks, I just placed it in high B tier

[flint wadi]

oh what a sad person you are

[silk dirge]

let this channel burn down

[spare pendant]

he can't leave unless he goes to pilgrims rest

[flint wadi]

verdania love yeees

[sinful nimbus]

This is agreeable except for you know what

[silk dirge]

yeah

[dire lynx]

Big robot made by the architects and powered by hundreds of silksflies (bug souls from whitrward) presumably disabled by seamstress before awakening to attack you

[sinful nimbus]

Verdania got done dirty

[charred nimbus]

It seens we have completely opposite opinions on game areas....

[wintry flame]

milquetoast

[silk dirge]

my problem with wisp thicket is it doesnt have much

[maiden meteor]

area so awful by design it loops back to peak

[flint wadi]

it was but the memory thing makes it hit all the more harder so you win some you lose some i guess

[terse warren]

Im 100% sure it wasn't just a cutscenes before for Fayhorn they must've changed it

[solid badge]

What's so good about Verdania anyways?

[silk dirge]

the vibes

[wintry flame]

beautiful

[silk dirge]

its so cool

im a big clover dancers enjoyer

i like the feeling of "these are the original form not robotic imitations"

[terse warren]

Literally got someone to try and interact and they didn't pull it out automatically

[spare pendant]

it's pretty and awesome

[charred nimbus]

But we have only one

[flint wadi]

its beautiful, its lush, such a palette cleanser after 2d bloodborne

its very heartbreaking too

[solid badge]

Guess I didn't suffer enough in the area to get to know her.

[fading whale]

He can, wiki says there's conditions to be met for him to be found there, and I'm watching my girlfriend's playthrough, she didn't do skull tyrant before entering act 2 but she doesn't have threefold melody/ double jump and she has also freed the rhino guy. I saw skull tyrant attack bonebottom just now in her save and he wasn't there, but he's not in pilgrim's rest either

[wintry flame]

act 3 in general feels so bleak going to verdania and the coral tower just feels good

[flint wadi]

its also just fun to navigate i liked a more compact area to go through

[sinful nimbus]

It was automatic for me

[silk dirge]

coral tower my problem is the arenas werent that much fun

[valid coral]

Coral tower until you get hit with the quadruple gauntlet

[sinful nimbus]

Verdania has literally nothing in it

[silk dirge]

khann is great hes just a bit too easy

but i didnt enjoy the arenas

[wintry flame]

i decided to take what i could get with CT

[silk dirge]

and ofc the area is beautiful

[sinful nimbus]

Garbage area and that stings it was what I was most excited for along with the coral place

[charred nimbus]

Khan would be possibly my worst rated boss on a tierlist

[spare pendant]

palestag

[sinful nimbus]

Filler boss

[spare pendant]

it's a secret boss lol

[flint wadi]

are you salty about no items i dont get it

[fading whale]

Literally worse than nothing

[solid badge]

Palestag goes into the Palestag tier, just like Bilewater goes to hell

[silk dirge]

yeah i do wish verdania had more

[sinful nimbus]

Yes what was the point

[silk dirge]

but i like the place

[valid coral]

I mean they couldn't put the equivalent of Karmelita after 4 multi enemy gauntlets and his attacks were good enough for me

[flint wadi]

oh my god bruh

[silk dirge]

theres a shortcut

[flint wadi]

actual i hate everything guy

[valid coral]

How would you get something out of verdania

[silk dirge]

the arena before khann is so silly tho

[dire lynx]

Why not? You get a shortcut to skip to him

[sinful nimbus]

By not making it a lame dream area maybe

[flint wadi]

well at least you get a map

[valid coral]

I know but after getting past gauntlet three I oneshot the next two

[silk dirge]

you can just knock everyone into spikes

[terse warren]

Me when I'm right tbh

[spare pendant]

supreme bait

[valid coral]

Yeah compared to gauntlet three it was a pushover

[terse warren]

No star is completely right

[sinful nimbus]

Verdania got axed for Wormways 🥀

[wintry flame]

imagine missing a tool in verdania and then you lose it forever i'd be pissed i'd start killing people

[silk dirge]

wait starpengu how would you feel about a pharloom bay dlc where you can take a boat to steel city

[terse warren]

Me when I make the second best area in the game only accessible once

[spare pendant]

a true skonger can recognize ragebait

[sinful nimbus]

Its just not the same as if it would be in the base game

[wintry flame]

10/10 imo

[terse warren]

Listen trust me on this one, of star was baiting it'd be obvious

[valid coral]

Take a boat to steel city and it instantly disintegrates into rust

[hidden crater]

DLC's gonna go CRAZY

[sinful nimbus]

Not everything negative about the game is bait

[flint wadi]

its lame its not part of actual pharloom but lost verdania is still Good

[terse warren]

What the fuck is wrong with you actually

[charred nimbus]

Sands of karak on E is such a vibe, that really is one of the worst places

[valid coral]

Honestly I liked wormways in act 3

[terse warren]

Yeah but it's literally empty

[silk dirge]

ducts in s is a fucking take of all time

[sinful nimbus]

Verdania is supremely dissapointing it has literally nothing to do and connects to nothing on the map because its a dream area (Who tf was asking for dream areas in the first place Team Cherry)

[wintry flame]

sands only really feels bad because of how shit it feels going there

[silk dirge]

the only redeeming quality of ducts is fleatopia

[hidden crater]

The mist is seen once and never again.

[valid coral]

And realizing what the citadel robbed you of

[echo trellis]

It’s not that bad

[silk dirge]

otherwise its just bilewater without any of the cool storytelling

[terse warren]

Ducts in S

It's that bad

[flint wadi]

cause its more of a sequence to go through like red memory

just with some nonleniarity sprinkled throughout

[valid coral]

Fleatopia

[echo trellis]

Fleatopia carries

[flint wadi]

ducts in s+ im coming for you

[wintry flame]

ducts feels like a fever dream area i wish they expanded upon it

[flint wadi]

im gonna skin you alive

[sinful nimbus]

Red Memory also sucks

[silk dirge]

i dont count fleatopia as part of ducts tbh

[charred nimbus]

Fleatopia should've been it's on area so people don't grant a good thing to Ducts

[terse warren]

Is fleatopia's back broken in 2???

[sinful nimbus]

Verdania and Red Memory are a complete waste of like 20 minutes

[terse warren]

Because nothing can carry that hard

[wintry flame]

TRUEEEE with red memory

[flint wadi]

disagree, moving on

[charred nimbus]

Red memory is one of the best things in the game....

[wintry flame]

i HATE lore

[sinful nimbus]

Callback slop

[echo trellis]

Putrified duct hate is forced

[terse warren]

Red Memory could've at least had the Vespa fight tbh

[solid badge]

I willingly spent 14 minutes in Red Memory. Too short.

[hidden crater]

Why are you here then

[silk dirge]

buzzword slop

[wintry flame]

guys i wanna be sincere

[sinful nimbus]

It is literally callback slop though

[silk dirge]

thats how i feel about the word slop

[sinful nimbus]

Just putting a thing from the first game doesn't make it good writing

[charred nimbus]

I guess i cried to bad writing then

[hidden crater]

Slop is such an overused word I forgot its meaning

[last ruin]

It’s backstory and expanding on information

[wintry flame]

i'd take a last judge dream refight if it meant cutting off red memory

[silk dirge]

doesnt make it bad writing either

[sinful nimbus]

TC putting White Lady in Red Memory and having her say absolute gibberish for 20 seconds and expecting me to cry

[silk dirge]

i did

[flint wadi]

its not its objectively horseshit

[solid badge]

Actually I appreciate the deep writing of puttin a City of Tears elevator somewhere random. Speedrunners screeching.

[charred nimbus]

Me too

[flint wadi]

so buzzword buzzword

[last ruin]

I don’t think anyone was EXPECTED to cry, there’s nothing sad rlly

[sinful nimbus]

There's nothing at all

[silk dirge]

it seems you are too emotionless you need to become more woke and emotionful

[terse warren]

Red Memory was like cool the first time and then you realize "what the fuck was that shit"

[valid coral]

I don't know about you but i lost my shit seeing a stag sign in red memory

[sinful nimbus]

The entire scene has no substance, no one cares that Vespa trained Hornet that adds nothing to the story

[last ruin]

That was there in hk

[charred nimbus]

I would consider this ragebait, but i'll just say you're not cooking

[wintry flame]

red memory is so annoying because it's just exposition

[valid coral]

Hornets fever dream after consuming three live beating hearts

[silk dirge]

"no one cares" i care i think its pretty cool

[hidden crater]

Why do these sprites make lace look like a complete DUMBASS

[spark valve]

a lot of it is which sucks the herrah bit is nice though

[last ruin]

She is

[silk dirge]

3 queens is a pretty unique concept and i enjoy it

[sinful nimbus]

No one COOL and BASED cares

[wintry flame]

it could have been just that as a small cutscene

[spark valve]

the contrast between the weaver scene and the herrah one is good

[sinful nimbus]

Fixed it

[valid coral]

She is childish GMS made her like that

[charred nimbus]

I mean, i'm not a kid anymore, i don't give a fuck about being BASED

[last ruin]

True

[valid coral]

Also the flickering of herrahs dreamer mask made me sad

[sinful nimbus]

That's what separates you from I

[spark valve]

yes the herrah part is good

[silk dirge]

seals are cool and i dont move around a lot so im based in a place therefore im cool and based

[flint wadi]

and then you act like a disgraced prophet for people not listening to your gripes with the game

[terse warren]

The parts that were ACTUALLY Hornet backstory were good

[sinful nimbus]

I am

[hidden crater]

The fact that hornet barely remembers her moms face is just sad

[terse warren]

And Weaver Slander is always welcome

[flint wadi]

uh huh

[sinful nimbus]

Galatians 4:16

[silk dirge]

i think wl dialog maybe needs improvement but otherwise i like it

[flint wadi]

mhm cool words magic man

[last ruin]

That’s every cutscene. So you just don’t like the platforming?

[hidden crater]

We making our own bibles now?

[terse warren]

The moment it switched from truth to Ragebait was right in front of y'all and you couldn't even see it

[wintry flame]

my biggest gripe with act 3 in general is how sloppy a lot of the void thing feels like

[silk dirge]

the "craft a better world than you live in" hit really fucking hard

[lethal burrow]

originally, it seems like you were going to fight vespa inside of it, but that got cut 😞

[terse warren]

Vespa and WL were ass lol

[fading whale]

So nobody knows what happens to pilby if he isn't in bonebottom when the tyrant attacks but he's not in pilgrim's either?

[flint wadi]

dont start with ragebait next time then lol

[valid coral]

He goes to halfway home then bellhart in act 2

[hidden crater]

Blah blah blah enemies get double health double damage if they dont already pretty annoying gimmick if your trying to fill the journal tho

[valid coral]

If it's act 3 and he's in halfway home he's gone along with everyone else in there

[terse warren]

Well no one was actually gonna say why they liked Red Memory aside from "it was so peak I cried" so ehhhhh

[wintry flame]

yeah exactly

[sinful nimbus]

If you expected a serious response to "you act like a disgraced prophet" I don't really know what to say

[silk dirge]

you do not act like the liskong al gaib

[cobalt coyote]

Red memory was great

[hidden crater]

No you are the disgraced chef

[spark valve]

the part with herrah is good it creates a contrast with hornet and lace and herrah and gms (because act 3 is about that now I guess) and having herrah's mask flickering in front of her while herrah mourns hornet only remembering the mask is good

[wintry flame]

act 3 was a tough pill to swallow because it put the game's atmosphere much closer to hollow knight's and i don't know if i like that

[flint wadi]

i wasnt, its just such a "theyre wrong im right" attitude combined with negativity its getting very grating very fast

[silk dirge]

YOU are the ~~vessel ~~disgraced chef YOU are the hollow knight ass jim

[wintry flame]

i think silksong is a beautiful game but at the same time a lot of the criticisms i have for it stem from act3

[cobalt coyote]

Fair

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[hidden crater]

Waited 7 years for this btw

[sinful nimbus]

TC advertised a far more interesting version of Silksong and then just... didn't give us that?

[spark valve]

vespa doesn't really add anything the part with wl is okay but then it just immediately pivots to exposition

[silk dirge]

my criticism of act 3 is bell eater is a terraria worm boss and i dont like that

[solid badge]

Lugoli brought up?

[fading whale]

Thanks, wiki doesn't say anything about that

[silk dirge]

terraria worm bosses are 💀

[flint wadi]

ass jim will die in half a year

[terse warren]

I think Silksing would've been better without Act 3

[cobalt coyote]

IT would have been cool if getting rid of all the void masses in an Area fully rid it off void

[hidden crater]

Feels weird to call lugoli by their actual name and not ass jim

[terse warren]

Source

[cobalt coyote]

Not only the room

[spark valve]

it would be more cohesive narratively

[silk dirge]

nah then the game just feels incomplete

[solid badge]

That's because I've not paid attention to anything Skong community related. For years!