sk-lore

[pastel timber]

she also implies shes a pale being which would make her a higher being no?

[lime osprey]

Lace is not a doll, she’s a fully sentient and independent being

[pastel timber]

the classifications in the game are extremely unspecific we really just do not know

[lime osprey]

Sure, but there are clear distinctions between normal bugs, hornet/vessels, and actual higher beings

Also grimm is the child of the nightmare heart

[edgy barn]

What she means by that is that Lace was strung from silk, rather than biologically birthed.

[pastel timber]

yeah sorry this is what i meant

but like hornet directly calls herself a "being pale" the lines are so blurred

[lime osprey]

Pale being ≠ higher being

[lethal burrow]

the first sinner tells us the weavers a large believed grandmother silk to be lying about them being divine children.

[edgy barn]

Why do they have 3 legs.

[rain gate]

2 leg 2 arm

other arm is holding the spear

[lethal burrow]

silking it organ

[lime osprey]

The first sinner does also say that weavers aren’t divine in nature

[pastel timber]

stilkin tripod

[edgy barn]

Oh I see it now.

[pastel timber]

this is what bilewater feels like

i never found it </3

[lethal burrow]

bile water is DESIGNED to make you miss the things that make it easier.

it trains you not to go into the maggots, to not explore thoroughly and instead just get through it as fast as possible.

It no surprise that people don't find the secret bench or the secret silk right outside of the boss room or the best strategy being to go in the leeches

[lime osprey]

Okay, grimm and grimm child tho are entirely the children of higher beings, or at least of a divine shell. What this birth looks like is unknown but it’s safe to say it is a descendant of the NMH in ways the greenchildren and moth tribe aren’t to Unn and the radiance respectively.

In a way, it appears there’s a difference between the spawn of higher beings that have been dreamt up (moth tribe and greenchildren) and those that are direct biological children (hornet, vessels, grimm). And the latter typically require more ritual and dedication than the former. And this requirement which i totally didn’t just make up is why i believe lace to apart of this category too, as she clearly required a large amount of energy and care to create

[pastel timber]

higher being reproduction is really weird they all seem to have their own methods

[lime osprey]

I’d be willing to say the moth tribe could be divine in nature and could be the direct descendants of the radiance, as they clearly have an affinity with essence, something that was obviously passed on from her.

The green children tho are almost certainly not Unn’s actual biological descendants tho

[barren beacon]

Fym secret silk

[obsidian quail]

i think Hornet is Pale and that comes with Higher Being potential as a demigod

she becomes one in the first ending

[barren beacon]

Isn't that because she binds GMS?

[obsidian quail]

yes so she has the potential because of her constitution

[lime osprey]

Yes i believe this to be true as well, seeing how Grimmchild is expected to become the nightmare king and the vessels can become the lord of shades (grimm isn’t pale tho lol but still divine in nature)

[lethal burrow]

right outside of the boss room there's a silk refill area that's hidden

[obsidian quail]

she fully ascends to that level

[pastel timber]

she needs the gms-imbued affinity for silk that weavers have to even do that at all

[bronze turret]

OH MY GODS I didn't know the tool could do THAT

[barren beacon]

Of course there is 😭 Didn't find this nor the bench, damn

[pastel timber]

perhaps then grimmchild, the vessels, hornet, maybe even lace, are all fledgling higher beings that have the potential to grow, but need to fulfill it

[bronze turret]

You guys know the tool that makes you crawl like a spider??? (I always forget its name) Well turns out that thing can make you climb the fricking wall AND THE CEILING

[barren beacon]

That's what weavers do ye

[obsidian quail]

i think all higher being spawn have higher being potential and it just depends on circumstance and how they end up

[pastel timber]

absolutely terrifying

[obsidian quail]

whether the potential is realized or not

[barren beacon]

Higher being potential sounds interesting

[bronze turret]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZU2g0oWhYyY

[lime osprey]

Maybe, but all their avenues for reaching higher being status are all predetermined from their birth through inheritance. Like hornet couldn’t just become the LoS or the nightmare king yk

[lethal burrow]

I dislike it because I often use the down dash and instead of going downwards faster it just sends me jettisoning to the left or the right

[bronze turret]

Hornet with Spider Dance playing in the background, couldn't be more perfect!

[obsidian quail]

yeah they’re all locked in towards their paths to HB, their constitution puts them along the path for certain HBs

[pastel timber]

vessel, shade, becomes lord of shades
grimmchild, son of nightmare, feasts on nightmares
hornet, daughter of silken strength, binds the strength of the goddess of silk
sounds about right

[lethal burrow]

The file name is the shade Lord, yet you called them the Lord of shades, but you don't call the nightmare King... the king of nightmares? inconsistency

[barren beacon]

Lord of Shades is Void Given Form, no?

[pastel timber]

lords of mantises

[lime osprey]

Okay i don’t believe this personally but the community considers LoS and SL to be separate entities

[bronze turret]

Oh my goodness 🥹 Itsy bitsy

[pastel timber]

what does that even mean

[lethal burrow]

Wait, really? Hold on what's the Lord of shades I thought that was just the same thing.

[obsidian quail]

it’s the same thing with the words flipped

we’re overthinking it

[barren beacon]

Wasnt Void Given Focus Shade Lord? They're the same thing?

[lime osprey]

Lord of shades is what the Knight becomes once obtaining voidheart, Shade Lord is void given focus

[pastel timber]

They think the HoG statue is not what the knight becomes?

[barren beacon]

So Void Given Form is basically just what comes before Void Given Focus?

[bronze turret]

Void Given Form = Lord of Shades - final form seen in Dream no More
Void Given Focus = Shade Lord - eldritch horror form seen in Embrace the Void

Hope this helps because gods damn Team Cherry, the names are too similar (this is why I prefer calling The Knight 'Ghost' and The Hollow Knight 'Hollow')

[pastel timber]

i suppose its not unthinkable that another lord of shades existed in the past given that we know shades arent specific to vessels (silksong arcane egg)

[barren beacon]

Ghost Supremacy, ye

[lethal burrow]

perhaps the knight becomes the Lord of shades as soon as they get the void heart, but it is only in God home that they are unshackled from their previous from

[edgy barn]

Lord of Shades = The Knight after getting Voidheart.
Void Given Form = The form the Knight adquires in Dream No More
Void Given Focus = The form the Knight adquires in Dream No More

[lime osprey]

The knight’s shade becomes the lord of shades, but the shade lord is a bunch of void focused into one being

[lethal burrow]

no it's better to call the knight the knight because it still keeps intact The surprise for new players that the main character isn't a hollow knight once they get to the city of tears.

[pastel timber]

well technically all of the vessels are void given form no? even the void tendrils in the abyss are "an imprint of void given form", void given form seems to refer to any instance of void that isnt just liquid goop

[edgy barn]

To make matters more confusing, "Void Given Form" is used in both HK and Silksong to refer to the void tendrils

[bronze turret]

Not in this channel tho!

[lime osprey]

So it’s shade > Lord of shades > Shade Lord. I think this interpretation is kinda silly tho

[pastel timber]

we should just not look at internal names theyre probably full of cobwebs and regrets

[lethal burrow]

shade lord is a shade that is a lord.

lord of shades is a vessel that is lord of the shades.

simple:)

[pastel timber]

like internal names should be regarded the same as cut content, interesting to think about but should not be taken as gospel

[rain gate]

first sinner is first weaver in the files

[obsidian quail]

i think the Shade Lord is any being that can bend Void to its will, and the Shade Lord in ETV is just the Higher Being tier

[edgy barn]

Such as "quirrel_dead_nail" iamrite.

[lethal burrow]

[pastel timber]

TRUE

[rain gate]

that's first sinner's internal name
first weaver

[edgy barn]

How do we treat Widow's needolin dialogue

[bronze turret]

True, otherwise we'd be calling Ornstein from Dark Souls as Griffith (and we don't want that)

[lethal burrow]

she is of the first, not the VERY first

[obsidian quail]

First Sinner is very Lucifer coded

[pastel timber]

carefully, from what ive heard

[rain gate]

shes last of the first apparently

[edgy barn]

No I mean if we should consider it for lore since it is impossible to access in-game.

[lime osprey]

My own interpretation is that the Lord of shades is completely the will of whoever, which in this case is the knight. So the knight still has its complete will intact, but the shade Lord is something else which sort of succeeds the knight’s will but isn’t necessarily incompatible with it. Think of it like hornet’s vague urge to dominate transforming into a more exact will when she turns into something else during the regular ending

[rain gate]

radiance dream nail dialogue is inaccessible in HK and thats where we get "DAWN SHALL BREAK" from

[bronze turret]

Ngl those boards with the sentencing descriptions are a bit confusing for someone who doesn't speak english for their native language (hello, it's me)

[obsidian quail]

i think Voidheart is the Shade Lord, it just gets attuned to Higher Being level in ETV ending

[lethal burrow]

hmmm, lets treat it as canon until they add boss rush where you also can't see it

[obsidian quail]

the Knight was always Shade Lord but not Higher Being tier Shade Lord

super Shade Lord

[barren beacon]

That's confusing

[lime osprey]

The knight becomes a higher being when it gets void heart

[bronze turret]

Think like evolutions

[obsidian quail]

1. having the voidheart is the qualification for being the Shade Lord

2. The Knight who is already the Shade Lord got super attuned via Godseekers and becomes super Shade Lord we see at the end

[barren beacon]

Ah, Makes sense now

[barren beacon]

Herrah is weaver though

[lime osprey]

Fayforn could be a higher being, i don’t think it’s silly to say it is or isn’t

[bronze turret]

Fayforn is fluffy as all heck and I'm sure if Hornet allowed herself to, she'd have hugged that thing 'til her arms fell off

[edgy barn]

You can dream nail Radiance during the platform phase

[foggy fractal]

yeah the discourse is about why she looks like that

[barren beacon]

She's just fat

[rain gate]

oh yeah
the real inaccessible dialogue is flukemarm

[barren beacon]

What other reason is it

[obsidian quail]

the R word

[barren beacon]

What does this mean

[obsidian quail]

i’m trying not to complete the cycle

[lime osprey]

The look of weavers is dependent on what creature they are elevated from, why is this discourse

[obsidian quail]

they’re all pharlids

[foggy fractal]

well we don't know that first statement do we
plus Herrah looks different from every weaver we've seen so that is why the discourse exists

[teal drift]

Herrah was a phatlid

[obsidian quail]

it’s a retcon there i said it

i can’t do this anymore

[bronze turret]

Yeah I'd boil it down to a conscious visual inconsistency.

[barren beacon]

Herrah was retconned?

[obsidian quail]

i feel like sisyphus

yes

[rain gate]

the cycle perpetuates

[lime osprey]

We do know the first statement from the ending of the first sinner fight

[edgy barn]

I don't think anyone disagrees with that at this point, they are just trying to provide an in-universe explanation.

[foggy fractal]

yeah I think most people agree on it being a retcon now
people will still try to come up with an in universe explanation though, and whether we get it from TC is hard to say

[lime osprey]

I mean, doesn’t Eva look different from the rest of the Weavers

[bronze turret]

Well, we could just go for the Occam's Razor approach and just say she grew on the plump side by the time she was put to sleep

[obsidian quail]

she’s not a Weaver

[edgy barn]

Eva is not a Weaver. She's a failed attempt at creating an artificial higher being.

[obsidian quail]

i don’t think about it too much, i just think it was neater to make hornet half and half storywise

[foggy fractal]

no ? all we know is that Weavers come from Pharlids, thats it
theres no evidence that would suggest that she acsended other beings

[edgy barn]

I second this

[barren beacon]

I still don't get what yall talking about. What was Retconned about Herrah?

[foggy fractal]

her being a Weaver

[barren beacon]

Yeah?

[edgy barn]

Her being a Weaver instead of a common deepnest beast

[lethal burrow]

my favourite pokémon

[foggy fractal]

fire steel type ahh

[barren beacon]

Such goofy goobers

Fellas how do those grub looking things evolve fucking armor.

How does it make sense

[bronze turret]

Well, I guess that depends what you would consider as ascended and what the game takes for ascended. If we use First Sinner's powers as a possible indicator, we could safely say that GMS made the Weavers as beings meant to stand above mere mortals, summed with the existence of their effigies which infer a system of worship dedicated to them.

[barren beacon]

And how did those judges have the armor?

[lime osprey]

Wait weavers are all confirmed to come from pharlids and only pharlids? I don’t think thats true, considering that Widow is fluffy underneath her mask and pharlids don’t have fur. Also widow has a silhouette similar to herrah almost

[barren beacon]

YEs

[rain gate]

theres armor sitting around somewhere no?

[barren beacon]

Pharloom is a Matriarchy

[lethal burrow]

not bug or ground?

[obsidian quail]

she wasn’t a Weaver in Hollow Knight but they retconned it and made her one in Silksong because it’s easier for Hornet to be Half Weaver Half Wyrm storywise

[brave valley]

just realized the putrified ducts is basically the underhang from rain world—the byproduct of pollution from the big megaproject in the area. the music even sounds very similar

[bronze turret]

Wawawa

[barren beacon]

Is that why she lost half of her body fat in Red Memories

[rain gate]

ehhhh the "byproduct of pollution" is more bilewater

ah ok ducts makes more sense

[brave valley]

wrong area name my b

[obsidian quail]

yes that’s them attempting to save face as much as they can because they retconned it

[brave valley]

but fr listen to the two tracks

[obsidian quail]

but she’s the only weaver who looks like that because she wasn’t one

trying to make it easier on the eyes u know

[edgy barn]

We don't know if Widow's fluff is part of her body or something she is wearing over real face. Also, Widow and Herrah have completely different shapes.

[bronze turret]

Curiously, I was always of the assumption that she was a Weaver, even back in HK. It made sense to me, with the things we see in the nursery

[foggy fractal]

Widow is smaller than Herrah, to a size that lines up to the rest of the weavers if we just remove the big round head, and the "fur" could just be a cloak

[foggy fractal]

yep that

[foggy fractal]

nah the final stage is fire steel trust

[obsidian quail]

well the Weavers and the beasts of deepnest were put in two separate categories and Herrah was explicitly in the latter

[lethal burrow]

the vines are just pole plants

[lethal burrow]

i thought the fluffy thing was just a head cover to hide the true face

[foggy fractal]

yep

[lethal burrow]

the weavers were always a distinct group tbf

[obsidian quail]

yeah the beasts of Deepnests are native to Hallownest and Weavers were always immigrants who had their own place there with other non weaver spiders and creatures

and then they left

in hindsight i think TC regrets not making Hornet’s mom a Weaver from the start

[silk dirge]

i found the prophet https://www.reddit.com/r/Silksong/comments/1n2lsc9/spoilers_perhaps_lace_will_be_somehow_connected/

[lime osprey]

Yeah it’s almost certainly a retcon but it’s odd considering that Hornet has always been associated with silk and had always been the knight’s sister

[brittle galleon]

where do u find the first one

[lime osprey]

Really what i think was a retcon was the homogeny of the weavers

[rain gate]

secret room in blasted steps

[edgy barn]

Secret room in blasted steps. They will hide so you have to draw them out with the needolin

[brittle galleon]

tysm

[lime osprey]

That or they decided last minute to make herrah her mother

[obsidian quail]

i think originally Hornet just had Weaver-like power due to the mix of being a spider and PK’s child with Soul power which equals Soul Silk, but when expanding Hornet’s story and the Weavers they realized it was easier to just make her half and half to better tie her to Weavers

[edgy barn]

Back in HK they all looked the same. Now we atleast have First Sinner and Widow with their degree of variation.

[obsidian quail]

Widow looked like the other Weavers and her body is still the same vs Herrah who is completely different

[rain gate]

crack theory: was it ever explicitly confirmed that herrah was hornet's birth mother? they never mentioned herrah specifically as the one that married the pale king iirc, herrah could have just raised hornet
(i'm going to get shot for this aren't I)

[edgy barn]

This is also unlikely because Hornet and Herrah have the same horns

[eternal gazelle]

A bunch of the dead weavers that Hornet binds to gain abilities have differently shaped shoulders, which to me implies that they were transformed from different base species

[obsidian quail]

herrah is explicitly said to mate with PK and have Hornet

[foggy fractal]

we have a few more degrees with some weaver corpses or those that appear in atla apparently
lots of different variation of spikes but the big head and slender body is conistent through all of them

except for y'know Herrah

[obsidian quail]

yeah these are realistic variations vs Herrah

[elfin minnow]

Do sentinels have a soul or silkflies in them

[lime osprey]

Yeah that’s what i believe too. Honestly i believe the reason why that is the nature of weavers to begin with is to justify why Herrah would look different from the other weavers. So like “hey guys weavers aren’t born, they’re made from regular bugs.” It’s also possible that herrah was ascended way later in her life and was probably a fully mature beetle or something.

But it is a retcon

[obsidian quail]

Hornet says how similar she is to pharlids

[foggy fractal]

who

[lime osprey]

I think hornet was always part weaver but she became Herrah’s child way later in development cycle

[obsidian quail]

herself

[elfin minnow]

So basically most automatons have silkflies in them right

[obsidian quail]

Herrah was always Hornet’s mom unless ur talking about HK development cycle

[eternal gazelle]

Maybe we all just thought Herrah couldn't be a weaver because post-pregnancy weavers look wack as fuck

[rain gate]

i cant find any specific reference to her looking through the wiki but youre probably right anyway

[obsidian quail]

White Lady talks about Herrah’s daliance with PK

[rain gate]

this is the generally agreed on consensus

[eternal gazelle]

I think they're called gleamflies

[rain gate]

she just mentions "her mother" not herrah specifically

[obsidian quail]

and Hornet being a product of it

[eternal gazelle]

But I haven't closely investigated the lights in the bellhome to make sure they're the same as other lighting fixtures

[silk dirge]

yeah and theyre basically pid autotuning

[rain gate]

it could have been one of the weavers that came with her

[obsidian quail]

yeah and then Hornet explicitly calls Herrah her mother at her grave

[silk dirge]

do we think gleamflies and lumaflies are the same

[elfin minnow]

Do architects have silkflies/gleamflies in them

[edgy barn]

Yes

[obsidian quail]

at her corpse

[rain gate]

yeah and if she was adopted she would think of herrah as her mother

[edgy barn]

We see one fly out when Twelth Architect dies

[obsidian quail]

come on smashbro

[rain gate]

ik ik

i said it was crack anyway

[spark valve]

We do not choose our mothers, or the circumstance into which we are born. Despite all the ills of this world, I'm thankful for the life she granted me.

[indigo plaza]

do we even read our own game 😭😭😭

[edgy barn]

Why would Herrah adopt a child only to abandon them by going to sleep.

[elfin minnow]

So all automatons are sentient right

[spark valve]

no

[obsidian quail]

tammo with the hammer

[silk dirge]

despite this someone tried arguing a few days ago that they thought hornets mom was not actually herrah😭

even they said multiple times in their post its contradicted by literally everything

[foggy fractal]

guh

[silk dirge]

but they kept writing it 😭

[foggy fractal]

😔

[elfin minnow]

I thought fourth chorus was crying at first
Didnt realise it was silkflies

[rain gate]

see i knew i was wrong and didnt keep going

[silk dirge]

oh that was you 😭

[rain gate]

just now it was me

[silk dirge]

what were you cooking

[elfin minnow]

Why did the silkfly help hornet escape

[lime osprey]

Yes that’s what i meant

[silk dirge]

i mean monomon was hornets mom super early in development

[eternal gazelle]

Alright yeah, the gleamlights are so small that the flies inside aren't even visible, they've gotta be 2 different species

By the way what the fuck was TC on putting a gleamlight reference in silksong

[rain gate]

herrah was originally called hegemol before they moved it to the Knight

[bronze turret]

The gleamfly lights are one of my favorite home decor additions! Never thought I'd see a game implement them

[silk dirge]

what color did you paint your home

i did blue

[eternal gazelle]

Is it cope to think silkflies will be expanded on in DLC because we still don't know how the fuck it did that

[silk dirge]

yeah

[eternal gazelle]

Like it's not a massive stretch to intuit how it could but still

[silk dirge]

im kinda curious whos making these rune cages in the first place

[pulsar escarp]

In the Sister of the Void ending, is it the Knight or the Hollow Knight that faces Hornet before her rescue? I initially assumed it was the Knight (as does the wiki by the looks of things,) but as I was watching someone else's playthrough I noticed the horns resemble the "young" form of the Hollow Knight, more than they resemble the horns of the Knight.

[rain gate]

knight

[silk dirge]

wouldnt it be productive for hornet to track down whoever is making the rune cages and murder them

[rain gate]

thats how they look in dream no more

[bronze turret]

That's The Knight. The horns have an S curve like the Shade Lord's central horns. Also Pure Vessel never attained the ascencion of Lord of Shades

[rain gate]

i thought it was thk too until i rewatched dnm

[eternal gazelle]

Also THK's shade doesn't look like that anymore

[silk dirge]

i dont think random ass bugs are crafting rune cages

[pulsar escarp]

kk, thanks for the pointer

[bronze turret]

The tentacles are a must!

How many tickles it takes for an octopus to laugh?

[elfin minnow]

No
I wonder how the silkfly was able to help hornet escape

[silk dirge]

silkflies are the dudes who get made in whiteward right

that room was genuinely unsettling

i didnt think whiteward could get worse

[bronze turret]

ten-tickles!

[silk dirge]

and then i found the room with the dead bodies

my skin was genuinely crawling

the crazy thing is for the longest time i didnt even register what whiteward was

i just thought it was a cool name

[eternal gazelle]

What

[silk dirge]

theres a room in whiteward that requires silk soar

with a bunch of dead bodies

and a machine that presumably converts them into silkflies

[eternal gazelle]

I would assume it just rips the silk out of them

Considering we know they do that

[silk dirge]

theres needolin dialog and shit

[eternal gazelle]

Burn the bodies, retrieve the dregs

[silk dirge]

let me see if i can find a video of the room

[foggy fractal]

this one ?

[silk dirge]

yeah

[eternal gazelle]

I've got my file open, I can check

[craggy smelt]

hee
their little legs

[bronze turret]

Every dark fantasy game loves to tap into the horror genre in some segment!

[silk dirge]

and theres a choral commandment saying something how they have been chosen for a new purpose

[molten parcel]

I did ts

[obsidian quail]

how do u get there again

that’s dark

[elfin minnow]

Godhome dlc where we fight a huge silkfly or something

[silk dirge]

"Bug of voice grown hoarse or shell fallen frail, you have been selected for duty most sacred.

Become our light, our guide in darkness, that others worthy may climb to join the holy song."

Eastern Whiteward. Requires Silk Soar or a

[barren beacon]

Absolute Silkfly

[barren beacon]

Or Wings

[obsidian quail]

Silksong doesn’t seem much bigger than HK map because hornet is so fast

[silk dirge]

yeah i copied directly from wiki how could you tell lol

[obsidian quail]

it’s like a relative thing

[barren beacon]

Crazy how tiny the Abyss is in SS

[elfin minnow]

There were 4 silkflies beside the second sentinel before their boss fight

[whole hawk]

Pale King is just built different. He made so many lighthouses for shits and giggles.

[eternal gazelle]

Is that text from a choral commandment?

I'm currently reading the needolin dialogue

[silk dirge]

yes

[eternal gazelle]

Yeah I think it's pretty likely the silkflies are made from bugs

Whiteward is hugely important for other reasons already

[old sierra]

Is the reason the knight can take so much lifeblood and not hornet because they are a full higher being while hornet is only half?

[whole hawk]

hes also void

[eternal gazelle]

I think it's more likely because vessels aren't truly alive

[edgy nebula]

fourth chorus bots also have needolin dialogue like "WE ARE HUNDREDS" "BECOME ONE" or something like that

[eternal gazelle]

They can't be mutated

[molten parcel]

im trying to connect both maps

[eternal gazelle]

Ah, see I thought that was generic robot army thought process

[whole hawk]

Vessels were technically born to contain the radiance so it stands to reason that a vessel can contain lifeblood

[molten parcel]

idk

[eternal gazelle]

Hornet does draw attention to the similarities between both kinds of infection

[old sierra]

Could we not link the bench room in kingdoms edge where you can see outside with the sands of Karak (i spelled that wrong)

[lime osprey]

I’m crying at the idea of pharloom being like, a nice 14 minute walk away from Hallownest

[old sierra]

Like the area with the watcher at the edge

[molten parcel]

we never know /j

[lime osprey]

The vessels aren’t higher beings but yes, it appears that being part regular bug affects Hornet in a variety of ways that the knight doesn’t have to deal with

[whole hawk]

Hallownest should be lower no? Like Dirtmouth should be aligned with Blasted Steps

[molten parcel]

nah

dirth mouth should be aligned with nameless town

they both on the "surface" zone

[lime nova]

I'm so curious how far apart Pharloom and Hallownest are

[lime osprey]

Yeah indeed

[proud swan]

i feel nameless town is higher

[lime osprey]

4 minute drive

[silk dirge]

1 hour by beastfly airlines

[foggy fractal]

Pharloom is much much much bigger than that
I believe theres a post or two that measures it

[lime nova]

First off, Pharloom is bigger than you've portrayed it as, it seems to be shrunk compared to Hallownest?
Secondly, I think the void sea is probably equally high up in both games, though it's hard to know exactly how low the abyss is in silksong since the map cuts off between deep docks and the abyss. It'd be hard to map out how high that vertical climb goes

I think you'd align the maps using the sea of void

[lime nova]

In a human sized car? That calls into question how big a bug is

Also... is there even a day/night cycle in this world? What's a day if you're always underground?

[molten parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/idgaf-smug-smug-monkey-lion-beta-gif-2814800372123763926

we do not know how deep the abyss is

[bronze turret]

It is... abyss deep

[mighty oyster]

Wait isn’t Pharloom far away?

[molten parcel]

heck if i know

[bronze turret]

https://tenor.com/view/cave-dive-darkness-leap-gif-5803442

[limpid summit]

It’s called phar loom

Probably

[lime nova]

Correct, but it would have like... sea level? Like we see the sea of void, right? That sea would be at equal height for both kingdoms?

[obsidian quail]

it is very far

[dire lynx]

is second sentinel the only automaton without those white flies in it, or are there any others? do the dancers release flies when defeated

[lime nova]

I think the cogwork dancers also don't have a fly. The flies are the souls of dead bugs. Both cogwork dancers were made from a single soul

[molten parcel]

thhis is just fan shit, im just doing it for the funs

making nonexistent shit

[edgy barn]

no way Pharloom is that close

[lime nova]

They weren't made by him, they both contain his soul

[lime nova]

It's not lol

Also Pharloom is played weirdly low down

But it's still cool

The architects

[limpid summit]

Do we think the HK Weaver is Murglin

She looks like a murglin

[edgy barn]

who

[limpid summit]

Idk

People have been calling FS Atla and Widow Absalom

[visual glacier]

It’s just the name of the nests

[limpid summit]

I feel like that’s just to show there were more weavers than we think and they had names

[edgy barn]

based on what

[limpid summit]

Based on literally nothing

[edgy barn]

Atla is named after an actual weaver though

[limpid summit]

It’s like blackwyrm

[visual glacier]

Source? I think I missed that

Or you mean irl?

[limpid summit]

Atla was the “weaver of time” in an effigy

[visual glacier]

Can I get an exact quote

[edgy barn]

Carving of Atla, Weaver of time. A prayer is etched upon it. "By grace of your example, and our history held full in mind, our song is yours, as your name is sacred. Weaver Atla, may you be praised eternal."

From the wiki

[visual glacier]

Oh sick

[limpid summit]

Blessed Weaver, lady of grace, you who see our sin, our frail shells, our voices weak, and still offer your protection. How great your mind to care so much for ones so lowly.

Oh wrong one

[visual glacier]

So maybe they are like big bosses of weavers

[limpid summit]

This was Keelal

[visual glacier]

Like the boss of the weavenest

[limpid summit]

Maybe that was FS idk

First thing she does is weave a dress

[terse stump]

So who put GMS to sleep?

[edgy barn]

Also, it is found in the slab and you need the key of the apostate, so I suppose that's where people made the FS connection

[limpid summit]

Joint effort by the weavers

[visual glacier]

Maybe the weavenest in hallownest was called weavenest herrah

[visual glacier]

The first sinner was the first person to tell the other weavers of their non divine origin

[terse stump]

Anyone else felt a bit of pity for GMS in act 3?
I felt like she wouldn't have raged as much if Lace wasn't there

[limpid summit]

I do pity her in act 3 sort of but if she had just like died

She’s slightly more sympathetic than Rad the later you go on their timelines

[boreal bone]

i mean it would be pretty convenient to kidnap someone that was close.

[barren beacon]

Yeah, my girl is so fucking beat up at Lost Lace's arena

[visual glacier]

If that is the case why doesn’t hornet go get Zote to help her fight gms

[barren beacon]

Poor GMS

[terse stump]

In the end, she even sacrificed herself to save Lace

To help you
The reason she's in the abyss in the first place

[edgy barn]

I sometimes feel bad for GMS, then I remember she is the reason the Skarr are haunted.

[terse stump]

Honestly when I got to act 3, I felt like I made things a lot worse

[molten parcel]

anyone else notice the connections between the hive and lifeblood

[barren beacon]

Karmelita :C

[barren beacon]

That's what hornet feels too, ye

[molten parcel]

to be specific, hiveblood, hiveblood itself is similar to "lifeblood" NAME, not to mention if you use too much plasmium on SS you get the same effects as hive mind, regeneration of health

[edgy barn]

I just blamed the shamans lol.

[visual glacier]

It’s laces fault for saving hornets

[terse stump]

After they end up dying, I felt like I ran out of excuses

[barren beacon]

Yes

[terse stump]

Hornet is at fault, she shouldn't have gotten trapped by gms in the first place

[barren beacon]

Yeah she just stood there for some reason

[terse stump]

TBF, you'd be surprised too if the fucking abyss just came up

Imagine if you had to do the flower quest the moment you get it

Now you have to beat the game without getting hit
No Eira

[visual glacier]

If the shamans told hornet abt the plan she wouldn’t go thru with it but since they didn’t the plan failed

[barren beacon]

The plan was for hornet to go down too, right?

[visual glacier]

No she got caught by gms

[barren beacon]

oh

[visual glacier]

But it still would’ve worked if lace didn’t step in

Or if hornet killed lace in the lace 2 fight

[edgy barn]

Hornet did think she killed her

[edgy nebula]

what are crests, why does hornet claim them from dead bugs

[opaque remnant]

Is there anything more to the Magnetite on the Mountain-Core-Room, as an entry in the Bellhome-Book?

[spare pendant]

wdym

[foggy fractal]

I don't think there's more

[opaque remnant]

Its so random in a big room placed

[spare pendant]

brightvein also has a mask shard

if i remember right

[opaque remnant]

yea on the other side

[spare pendant]

that's it though

[opaque remnant]

and on the left side its just the magnet thingi

[boreal bone]

missed opportunity fr

zote would have carried

[sacred mica]

Is the hunter from hollow knigth a male weaver? I think he migth be he has the same number of eyes and also has a similar skeletal looking body, maybe he was cast out from the rest of the tribe in deep nest for being Male and for lacking the ability to produce silk.

[limpid summit]

I mean like

There’s nothing that suggests it

I guess that would be fun to think about

He’s a little more detailed

[sinful nimbus]

Hunter is foreign to the region which would include Deepnest

[sacred mica]

Idk I just noticed he and weaver's looked really similar while playing through silksong

[foggy fractal]

we have no evidence for it execept for the visual connection
plus we've only seen female weavers, who are all smaller, except for Herrah which still doesn't look like the hunter

[silk dirge]

i mean do male weavers even exist

[craggy smelt]

no

[sinful nimbus]

I don't see why there couldn't be male partial weavers

Pure weavers are all women though

[silk dirge]

yeah i was thinking like pure weavers

[sacred mica]

Some lizards and insects only give birth to females but some times a male is still born but is infertile

[foggy fractal]

yeah weavers are always refered to as sisters or daughters

[foggy fractal]

we can't really use real life logic

[sacred mica]

I mean that at least took inspiration for alot of the game from reality like how ants and bees still live in a hive/nest and how spiders produce silk

[foggy fractal]

sure but we also got magical dream realm beings
its best to just go by what we have in the game

and the games don't suggest he's a weaver

[limpid summit]

If Hunter was a weaver in part he’d probably react to Hornet or at least the little dudes

[foggy fractal]

yeah

he doesn't have any special comment on that

[limpid summit]

I like his comments

Yk you can usually tell whether he’s met someone based on the comments

Vague musings and stuff means he probably never saw them

They’re just things he writes about in his margins

[sacred mica]

I mean he he did wonder if hornet was a hunter like him and since she is a half weaver he migth have recognized some similarities. I'm aware that their is no info confirming or denying it I just think It would be neat

Like he even constructs his own makeshift mask out of leaves maybe as an attempt to mimic the other weavers and considering how much the weavers cared about hornet being one of them and how they abandoned eva after making her, I think it's possible they migth have abandoned one of their own if a male was suddenly born and couldn't produce silk.

[fair zealot]

do we think craws having access to balloon technology has any relation to the pinstresses also having balloons

[whole hawk]

So considering how the everbloom.operates in the void sea, what exactly happened to the shade lord in the godhome delicate flower ending?

[coral wren]

bilewater song sounds like it was taken straight out of Ori

[sacred mica]

Vacation

[coral wren]

it sounds so like gareth coker's style

[blissful harbor]

https://tenor.com/view/futurama-farnsworth-shreds-to-shreds-you-say-gif-19143723

[limpid summit]

We do not know

[red comet]

[limpid summit]

Since Godseeker mode is canon some people think the flower creates a weird reaction that confines the Knight to the dream realm

Without the flower it likely just explodes out like it does to THK in dnm

[chilly gyro]

I just thought of something for GMS. Is it Grandmother Silk, or Grand Mother Silk with grand just being a descriptive?

[limpid summit]

Latter

technically she’s Hornet’s “grandmother” so there’s a double meaning

But latter she’s the grand Mother of all the weavers

[chilly gyro]

I can tell Team Cherry probably had fun thinking of that one

[obsidian quail]

i saw people say First Sinner could be Atla since you find her Weaver Effigy in the vicinity

[coral wren]

I heard in other languages its translated to like mother superior

[chilly gyro]

That implies that each weavnest is named after a weaver.

Meaning deepest could have been known as Weavnest Hera if the naming scheme goes how I think it would

[coral wren]

wait is sherma a man?

[sacred mica]

I could see that atla is also where we find the rune setter which is a device to set silk runes on the ground and she weaves runes in her figth. Also creating an artificial being to usurp your god is probably considered a sin

[sacred mica]

Yes

[coral wren]

oh good

[foggy fractal]

the knight can get out though right with dream nail ? I'm not too familiar with some of this dream realm stuff (void in radiance fights, etc)

[coral wren]

i thought he was a female person

[sacred mica]

I did to initially

[coral wren]

luckily i didn't get tricked by ji ninesols
I could start simping for him right away

[limpid summit]

You can’t leave in Godseeker mode

It’s a sort of a strange thing it was one thing making the boss rush canon but another making the extra boss rush mode canon and taking place after an unspecified circumstance

[coral wren]

also i noticed when karmelita is stunned the vocals in her music stops

[limpid summit]

Godseeker talks to you as if you’re the God of Gods

So one of those two endings happened

[ivory forum]

why are some weavers consistent (big head and allat) but herrah and widow look so different

[barren beacon]

One even lacks the spikes

[barren beacon]

Herrah was prob a retcon

[lethal burrow]

what made you choose to connect it like that

[craggy smelt]

widow's mask was removed, maybe herrah's was too
she got a different one to become a dreamer, I guess

[molten parcel]

i dunno

[ivory forum]

herrah's body also looks very different from other weavers

[molten parcel]

she is fat

[ivory forum]

in what way?

[craggy smelt]

she isn't referred to as a weaver until silksong

[barren beacon]

Yes

[whole hawk]

she was called a common bug even

[barren beacon]

She loses half her body fat on the Silksong memory

[craggy smelt]

lore in the first game describes her as 'a common beast', that's probably what she was originally

the Weavers were a group distinct from the native Beast tribe of Deepnest, like Midwife says

[molten parcel]

though she was a spider with silk abilities and thats why weavers followed her

[barren beacon]

No she's a weaver

[lethal burrow]

True, but that was among the reckoning of hallownest and the deepnest folk, to them the weavers sure seemed nothing more than foreign mages.

[craggy smelt]

the Weavers fell under the rule of the Deepnest monarchy, which Herrah married into

[lethal burrow]

since we're having this talk for the 50th time, I'm just going to put all the images so we can fast track it.

TLDR the conclusion is that it was probably a retcon and they made her a Weaver retroactively but her different appearance can be explained by birth or something.

[craggy smelt]

'common beast' was how the shrumal described her - shows what they know

[barren beacon]

It's a good talk

[barren beacon]

Also wym "By birth"?

[ivory forum]

hmm widow has such a good design
anyways yeah fine with herrah being a weaver. It was weird anyhow that the ruler of the weavers in hallownest was not a weaver herself

[molten parcel]

theres depth there i think

[ivory forum]

i like the idea of weavers just having big masks its so funny
do we know why they do this

[lethal burrow]

By births giving act she underwent a metamorphosis that set her apart from her Weaver kin.

or so it is spoken

[barren beacon]

So birth made her look like she does in HK?

[lethal burrow]

The masks are natural

[barren beacon]

Is that the coping mechanisms we developed?

[lethal burrow]

that's the consensus yes

[barren beacon]

Cool

[lethal burrow]

It's the best we've got

[barren beacon]

Have we come to a consensus as to why The Knight had to slash the Void Tendrwils away in TE too?

[unborn night]

do you guys think theres any significance to the climb to the surface of pharloom above the cradle having the same ost as the Red Memory?

[lethal burrow]

no that's just people trying to figure out the void heart and how it makes any sense

[barren beacon]

What's your take

[ivory forum]

theory: Herrah's partner is actually the weaver. The pale king accidentally made it pregnent but everyone thinks it was herrah

[lethal burrow]

I would say that's very relevant and you should come in here another time and bring it up with more of the regulars are around because they would get a real confusion out of that

[unborn night]

noted. will do!!

[ivory forum]

this is lame but could the slashes perchance be just the tendrils snapping back with force as the knight arrives

[lethal burrow]

uhhhh, I'm not sure,

[barren beacon]

Valid take

[barren beacon]

Why would it look like three slashes though

[ivory forum]

It could also be that the knight is united with the void but still needs some restraint to truly save hornet, as this probably goes against the void's nature to consume

[barren beacon]

The Knight wanted to aurafarm

[obsidian quail]

they were their own honored group in deepnest and in the end they are immigrant/refugees

so gotta respect the natives if u want to stay

[barren beacon]

The Weavers in red memories seemed to be plotting to make PK fall though

Trying to indoctrinate Hornet or something, with the whole "Prove your more weaver than Pale"

[lethal burrow]

voidheart "Unifies the void under the bearer's will"

but it doesn't seem very unified in that ending.

[barren beacon]

[obsidian quail]

what makes u say that, they just want Hornet to be more in touch with her Weaver side

[proud swan]

Is it the same? Did not sound like it. Maybe because of volume

[lethal burrow]

I think that might be a bit of a reach

[obsidian quail]

they helped with the seals for PK’s plan

[barren beacon]

Weavers like to be in control of stuff, no?

[ivory forum]

source is the wiki but i imagine its right

[obsidian quail]

yeah i think they wanted her to be super queen of deepnest

[barren beacon]

Super queen of deepnest?

[unborn night]

red memory is in stages, it uses the first stage of red memory. it sounds off because it doesnt transition to any further ones from what i can tell

[obsidian quail]

not literally super queen but she’s the most powerful princess in deepnest history and also has a lot of potential for what Weavers are looking for

[unborn night]

that, or im just wrong.

[barren beacon]

Strength?

[proud swan]

You mean the climb to nameless town, right?

[obsidian quail]

every weavenest is named after a Weaver of significance it seems

[lethal burrow]

https://youtu.be/oikMcwa3tsA?si=vKS8FyItgCYevmsg

https://youtu.be/PJWao0j0agM?si=-Y5icJ7R2EnQbX-i

Compare for yourselves

[obsidian quail]

those Weavers probably spearheaded that Weavenest

[proud swan]

Melody is not the same to me

[ivory forum]

hmm i doubt its like trully possible but what direction do yall think they could take a third HK game

[lethal burrow]

Which wiki

[ivory forum]

uhh idk https://hollowknight.fandom.com/wiki/Herrah

[unborn night]

maybe i was wrong, then? i couldnt find an official upload of the surface climb theme, so it is very possible. i was just wrong. but to me, they do sound quite similar

[lethal burrow]

fandom 👹

[unborn night]

fandom wiki is unreliable, use this https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Hollow_Knight_Wiki

also, not nearly as many ads.

[ivory forum]

oh thanks

It does cite the same thing for herrah in that one yeah

[lethal burrow]

fextra, fandom or any other wiki for both games are pretty bad quality

The only official, accurate, and up-to-date wiki is this one.

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Hollow_Knight_Wiki

[proud swan]

they do sound similar, but the keys and progression are different. I think both are used to evoke past, melancholy, nolstalgic feelings

[obsidian quail]

steel city could be its own game

[foggy stratus]

Hey I’m curious, was grand mother silk a Pale Being or just a pale, being?

[ebon silo]

WE yes WE are not waiting 10 years for this

[lethal burrow]

She is a pale being

[viscid ridge]

Pale being

[obsidian quail]

get comfortable andy

[ebon silo]

no

[proud swan]

Definitely pale being. But where exactly do pale beings come from is really an impossible question

[lethal burrow]

HOLLOW KNIGHT: STEEL SENTINEL 🗣️

[obsidian quail]

they’re cooking up steel city and they’re seeing how everyone loves silksong and think hey wait a minute let’s make steel city its own thing

WHATS ANOTHER FEW YEARS OF WAIT TIME

[foggy stratus]

Is it said anywhere or are y’all just going off vibes?

[obsidian quail]

it is said

[proud swan]

I raise you: HOLLOW KNIGHT: BELLS OF STEEL

[lethal burrow]

it's spoken here and there, hidden secrets and midnight whispers

[ivory forum]

actually pale being related question
whats up with the pale stag

[barren beacon]

Hollow Knight: Steel Soul
Coming out 3000

[viscid ridge]

No one knows, they seem to either be created due to a force we dont know of yet fr the Pale stag commentary by the Green Prince, or they either always existed

[obsidian quail]

i think pale beings are just like a supernatural mutation

since different species seem to have pale versions

some special mutation

[proud swan]

I may be the dumbest person alive because I never realized Palestag was a PALE STAG

[obsidian quail]

Steel City will release 2027-2028 mark my words

Steel Soul edition

[viscid ridge]

Take in mind we dont know for certain if the pale stag existed 100%, but im on the side that believes it was real, because it would fit nicely into the lore of silksong, and stuff we learned in Hollow knight

[viscid ridge]

Honestly think we'll just get a steel city dlc cause of the missing steel hunters and all that

[proud swan]

What do we know about the palestag?

[lethal burrow]

steel city release in 2030 with 50 deleted ari cutscenes and sharpe still not making it into the game

[proud swan]

Theres 99.9% chance a dlc is bringing steel characters because couple of them were made by backers

[blissful harbor]

judging from the journal entry, i think it was real
but whatever weaver-silk-memory nonsense is causing it to be distorted somehow if that makes sense

[proud swan]

Ain't no way they're not delivering

[trim vector]

I'll wait

[lethal burrow]

steel soul exclusive DLC

[ivory forum]

man i hope we don't have to wait long to see godmaster stuff. Can't wait for more lore on those guys

[silk dirge]

i hope we get smth new instead of godmaster

[viscid ridge]

Its mythical, and not for certain real or not, but also seems to be the first stag of verdania. My hypothesis is that the Pale Stag is similar to Unn. I think it created verdanias greenery, same as unn did, but it was eventually killed by the green society, leading them to take over verdania as their own kingdom.

[blissful harbor]

their physical body kinda exploded in EtV though, idk how they would appear in silksong

[proud swan]

Ay not sure if you are still there bro but did you know chord progression is very similar is most silksong ost because they're using the dies irae motif? Not sure if this is new, but I find it to be a nice piece of information

[lethal burrow]

I just want a boss rush

[silk dirge]

i think a lot of people just want hall of gods

and i too want that

[proud swan]

Well I just lost my 1h steel soul run because of a rat. damn

[trim vector]

there must be more than just one godseeker though

[ebon silo]

Just not yet

[blissful harbor]

fully thought refights were gonna be in base game with like a memory mechanic
which idk why not literally all the pieces are there TC

[viscid ridge]

Yeah but i doubt EtV is canon, so we'll see. We do see some godmaster stuff in the files for SS

[unborn night]

im ngl a lot of silksongs fights are weaker than hks

[blissful harbor]

it’s implied in the first game they all jumped into the main ones head to help their “silent mind”

[trim vector]

damn it

[silk dirge]

nah a lot of hk bosses are pretty bad

you just arent remembering them

[unborn night]

i genuinely dont. remember most silksong bosses, hk bosses are far more memorable fights

[silk dirge]

silksong has nothing as bad as flukemarm

[unborn night]

father of the flame?

[silk dirge]

fotf is way more interesting

[unborn night]

not rlly

i also have literally just replayed all of hollow knight

[trim vector]

but doesn't she only die in the p5 ending? It doesn't necessarily have to be canon for silksong so she might still appear in pharloom somehow

[proud swan]

fotf at least adds to lore discussion I guess

[blissful harbor]

silksong takes place after either dnm/etv
having them appear would mean dnm is canon, which calls into question wtf shade lord was doing flashing at the end

[silk dirge]

hollow knight has dream warriors

[unborn night]

also its only like. that one specific godseeker. whats stopping another one from taking the job

[obsidian quail]

what’s fotf

oh

[ivory forum]

father of the flame

[silk dirge]

all dream warriors are stupid and bad

i dont like any except gorb

[obsidian quail]

fotf is terrible and crashing frames

[ivory forum]

trully dream warriors are HK's worst bosses

[trim vector]

that's what I said, but apparently they were all combined into one godseeker

[lethal burrow]

God, you sound like bluepoint

[silk dirge]

like the peak of hk bosses is good but theres a lot of mid ones

[lethal burrow]

[obsidian quail]

it’s just projectile spam and nightmare king grimm fireball rehash

[silk dirge]

i mean its an interesting concept

[trim vector]

the dream warriors are amazing tf are you talking about

[silk dirge]

there are people who enjoy it

its certainly more interesting than flukemarm

[blissful harbor]

father flame’s only redeeming quality is it looks like a dark souls boss
it’s elevated purely by aura

[ivory forum]

but also like. nosk (if you take context out), winged nosk, vengefly king, brooding mawlek

[silk dirge]

im not a huge fan of it but i will say it is an interesting concept

[viscid ridge]

I think if godmasters apear in pharloom, it will be accessed through another Godseeker, not the same one as in Hollow Knight. They do have a shared mind.

But honestly my bets for a bossrush modes are on some kind of memory sequence through the song of the deep

[ivory forum]

the damn massive moss charger

[proud swan]

like broken vessel

[silk dirge]

broken vessel is mid lost kin is goated

[trim vector]

Broken vessel is an a tier boss

[silk dirge]

broken vessel just gets insta melted a lot of the time

[ebon silo]

I FEEL like when godmaster comes garauntee there would be a switch for phantom like changing the mode of the fight (ex mantis lords) and it's lace and phantom

Prime phantom and lace ong

[ivory forum]

HK's peak (sisters of battle, nkg, pure vessel, radiance, etc etc) are still really great but the rest is like eh

[silk dirge]

yeah

[foggy fractal]

what if we got green prince and the cogwork dancers 😨 sisters of battle all over again

[obsidian quail]

crowfather, phantom, first sinner, lace, karmelita, nyleth, trobbio, i liked the rest are okay

[silk dirge]

massive moss charger

[ebon silo]

Not bad really

[obsidian quail]

beastfly?

[viscid ridge]

Their moves doesn't really compliment eachother, they would have to change stuff to not make it annoying

[proud swan]

widow is good too

[blissful harbor]

throw that fucking fat ass fly into the lava where it belongs

[obsidian quail]

i thought widow was fine

[silk dirge]

this is kinda wild no cogwork dancers??

[proud swan]

widow is btw the first real fight in the game it sets a whole ambiance

[trim vector]

clover and cogwork dancers at the same time like that one sisters of battle mod

[viscid ridge]

Widow is awesome

[obsidian quail]

cogwork dancers yes i forgot that was crazy

[blissful harbor]

widow is just the inferior first sinner

[silk dirge]

widow is super fun i liked her

[ivory forum]

this is my personal tier list

[ebon silo]

They are pretty much the same person because for some reason lace is probably one of the few that tries to parry you more often and that's because she has cross stitch because she was with phantom before so lore wise yeah

[silk dirge]

mine is somewhere

let me find my tierlist

[obsidian quail]

but we can’t act like silksong wasn’t throwing a lot of arguably overtuned shit our way that made some stuff feel tedious

but they still had bangers

[proud swan]

steel soul boss is e tier for me

[blissful harbor]

why is the high halls gauntlet considered a boss

[ebon silo]

Dang you missed the shakras fight? It was hella annoying but still good

[ivory forum]

i'm on a new save just for shakra and garmond lol

[silk dirge]

my hot take is i liked voltvyrm

[ivory forum]

(and cursed ending)

[silk dirge]

i thought it was a neat little boss

it wasnt super crazy or anything but i didnt think it was bad

it was pretty cool

[ivory forum]

voltvyrm is not like actively bad but its so

[obsidian quail]

yeah looking at this lineup i really don’t think it’s any better than Hollow Knight objectively, i think their peaks are the same

[ivory forum]

nothing

[obsidian quail]

Groal is god awful

it’s a worse version of Soul Master/Tyrant

i give HK more credit just because they were original conceptions

[ivory forum]

i found groal to be fun when i wasn't just tired from the gauntlet before

[proud swan]

bellbeast as A is suspicious. how much do you wanna pet that adorable roach

[obsidian quail]

trobbio was fucking cinema

[ivory forum]

much

[silk dirge]

calling bell beast a roach is a crime

roaches are not cute bell beast is a not one

[errant hare]

I feel like Groal is a fight that heavily relies on tools. Conch cutters, pimpillo when he does the inhale, and/or cogflies with polip pouch all shred him

[obsidian quail]

no boss has the aura of NKG yet

[silk dirge]

nah first sinner does

[proud swan]

yeah shes more like an armadillo I guess

[silk dirge]

she fucking weaves her dress in front of you

[errant hare]

Was gonna say the same lol

[silk dirge]

if thats not aura idk what is

[ivory forum]

first sinner is probably my second favorite fight in the whole game

[obsidian quail]

First Sinner is my favorite boss but Troupe Master Grimm and NKG was generational

[ivory forum]

(only behind fat flea)

[silk dirge]

girl spent 1000 years in prison ready for that moment

[ivory forum]

i hope fat flea is on the eventual godhome

[proud swan]

I mean to me it was, but he is 100% beatable without tools as well

[blissful harbor]

gotta put on the fit in preparation to beat the shit out of hornet

[obsidian quail]

NKG literally comes out of a heart with flames

[silk dirge]

why do people think fat flea is a boss it takes like 10 hits

its a normal ass enemy to me

its goated for sure

[ivory forum]

(i don't really think its a boss but its funny to say it is)

[sacred heath]

if it does the funny yell it’s a boss

[blissful harbor]

first sinner is so mad she comes back from death to kick your ass
i like her a lot more

[silk dirge]

but its not a boss

[proud swan]

gurl we are flea glazers

[muted lantern]

Fleas>grubs

[silk dirge]

tiso does a funny yell is he a boss

[obsidian quail]

across the map i think NKG, Pure Vessel, First Sinner, Karmalita, and Sisters of Battle are my favorite bosses

[unborn night]

also real quick before i head out, someone was saying its unclear whether or not p5 ending is canon, its not. Dream no more is the canon ending, the knight appears the exact same in the ending of silksong as it does in the final scene where it kills the radiance.

[muted lantern]

Grubs don't play flea games

[silk dirge]

grubs are cute fleas are silly

[obsidian quail]

and then Trobbio honorary mention

[proud swan]

that one fat flea that destroys platforms in the dodge game is worse than the fat flea fight

[sacred heath]

he would have been if it wasn’t for mawlek’s fat ass

[muted lantern]

Fleas are cuter than grubs imo

[silk dirge]

fleas share collectively one braincell

[blissful harbor]

it also flashes the appearance of shade lord, who is only seen in embrace the void
it’s ambiguous

[ivory forum]

unsure how much of a hot take this is but i like sisters of battle more than NKG (as a boss) but i'm n1 grimm lover so

[obsidian quail]

Fleas destroy the grubs

[silk dirge]

i love how they get stuck in the dumbest situations

[obsidian quail]

Momoshka!

[silk dirge]

that one flea that got frozen lmao

actual skill issue you have fur

[ivory forum]

fleas actually mattering for game progression is funny

[silk dirge]

how tf do you get frozen

[muted lantern]

Sisters of battle are pretty incredible, honestly I think if we ever get a pantheon style thing I think cogwork dancers will be the sisters of battle equivalent, with green prince joining in

[silk dirge]

i love the one thats getting bitten by an aknid as well

[manic pewter]

Lore-wise how tf do silk dispensers make sense?

[ivory forum]

it would be so fun

[obsidian quail]

she’s like the Pure Vessel of Silksong and she’s easily my favorite boss besides Karmelita

[muted lantern]

What silk dispensers

[proud swan]

thse two lava brothers felt a little like sisters of battle

[obsidian quail]

but Grimm is so cool man

[ivory forum]

a lot of the silksong fights feel like dances to me already

[manic pewter]

the ones in citadel where you can pay to refill some silk

[muted lantern]

I assume they just have huge spools inside

[ivory forum]

i'll never forgive myself for cheesing karmelita with tools

[obsidian quail]

Grand Mother Silk was disappointing just like her character

[ivory forum]

worst decision of my life

[proud swan]

you dont deserve her

[obsidian quail]

but her character design is SSS tier

[dire lynx]

we dont see the hollow knights shade in so presumably hes still alive, which isnt the case in dream no more

[manic pewter]

ig im moreso asking why the common person would need to have access to silk?

[blissful harbor]

only boss i used tool spam on was groal, and it was the best decision of my life

[muted lantern]

Good boss, too easy, I didn't mind her character

[proud swan]

Im 100% with you but yeah, definitely too easy

[silk dirge]

i think gms needs to be easy

[blissful harbor]

architect my beloved

[silk dirge]

bc cursed ending

[ivory forum]

i like the GM silk fight. Yeah its easy but its so great

[muted lantern]

I think we need a harder version of her like pv

[silk dirge]

i mean gms is more analogous to thk in terms of progression

[muted lantern]

Thk was easy too

[ivory forum]

yeah

[silk dirge]

yeah thats what im saying

[edgy nebula]

the fearful pilgrim dies even if you never bring the bell beast to bone bottom, this is so sad

[proud swan]

Any GMS anytime now

[ivory forum]

i like the inversion of normal route corrupted being, true ending higher beying

[muted lantern]

Pilby dying is more important to narrative than him surviving, sorry to say

[silk dirge]

gms is meant to be kinda anticlimactic like thk is

[proud swan]

gosh I missPilby

[silk dirge]

thk has climactic music but the fight makes you think "thats it?"

bc its not the actual final fight

gms is very much the same as that

[edgy nebula]

youre able to save him, thts what im doing rn

[ivory forum]

lost lace is a good fight but i truly expected a final-er boss

(still S tier though)

[proud swan]

do not play with my heart

[silk dirge]

nah i dont think every final boss needs to be a giant god or anything

[edgy nebula]

lost lace is boring wheres lost mottled skarr

[proud swan]

lost lace is GOAT

[silk dirge]

lost lace is my #3 boss behind karmelita and first sinner and i like the fact now shes not a giant goddess

its unique and i think its done well

apparently some people were actually expecting a shade lord boss fight

[ivory forum]

yeah its a great boss fight

[silk dirge]

which wouldnt really make sense

[manic pewter]

ive heard quite a few ppl were expected a void-ified gms after the lost lace fight

[muted lantern]

LL is the best version of lace, honestly I feel like most of the lace criticisms would be gone if she didn't fight us encounter one, and just left like the rare blasted wastes encounter

[proud swan]

THIS ONE... THE DARK SHALL NOT TAKE 😭😭

[silk dirge]

yeah

[manic pewter]

what lace criticisms?

[silk dirge]

apparently you can also encounter her in sinners road

[muted lantern]

People don't like that the final boss is someone we fought twice before

[manic pewter]

oh thats dumb

[muted lantern]

I didn't mind personally

[manic pewter]

every fight is different

[muted lantern]

But first lace fight is pretty forgettable outside of dialogue, throwing her in lava was funny

I hope we get a harder fourth chorus

Fifth and sixth chorus at once

This too is robot yaoi

[dire lynx]

please i need this, i was so disappointed how easy he was

[edgy nebula]

lace 1 shouldve been harder i feel ngl

[muted lantern]

Crust king Khan was too easy imo

We should have got a checkpoint before him after the arenas and a harder fight

[dire lynx]

also this

[ivory forum]

Lace 1 is like hornet 1

[edgy nebula]

you did though

[proud swan]

I second that

[muted lantern]

I wouldn't know I beat him in one try, hence the he was too easy argument lol

[edgy nebula]

if you drop the coral spike you can skip the first 3 arenas

[proud swan]

I feel like all dream bosses except for karmelita and clover dancers were a little underwhelming

nyleth is also meh

[silk dirge]

i hope khann gets the traitor lord treatement

[ivory forum]

So half of them

[silk dirge]

he has cool attacks but yeah hes too easy

[ivory forum]

Nyleth i found to be cool

[silk dirge]

nyleth i dont really care about we all know seth is the true star of the show there

i thought nyleth was a cool concept but it didnt really vibe with me

[ivory forum]

But yeah seth

[muted lantern]

Clover dancers were too weak imo, I hope we get a sisters of battle style fight with cogworks and green prince at once

[ivory forum]

The goat

[muted lantern]

Hornet vs 3 gay people

[silk dirge]

i liked clover dancers and all of verdania in general

the music of clover dancers gives you that feeling you are actually fighting the real ones and not some robotic imitation

[proud swan]

putting nyleth after seth is such a weird decision, its like eating the best part of your mcdonalds meal first

[proud swan]

we have established that hornet is racist. maybe she could be homophobic too. you know, for inclusion

[sinful nimbus]

Back in my day Seth was a servant of the voice 👴

[glossy badger]

Nyleth was such a disappointing boss

[silk dirge]

i mean for all we know nyleth is the voice

[edgy nebula]

he still is, it's just nyleth's voice, tmk

[sinful nimbus]

Nyleth is never associated with that concept AFAIK

Not that she's not cool

[silk dirge]

i mean he had to be chosen somehow

theres no way hes just guarding this random ass shrine

[proud swan]

yes! she definitely should though

[sinful nimbus]

He was chosen by Nyleth but Nyleth isn't really related to the concept of voices at all

[silk dirge]

SETH IS MR MUSHROOM CONFIRMED

[proud swan]

All it took is adding a needolin dialogue saying "Hear... my voice..." or something

[silk dirge]

i wonder if the voice might be something other than nyleth?

i mean we dont really know much about his backstory other than the irl backstory

[edgy nebula]

i love how we have mosshome, bilehome, crawhome, and forgehome

[foggy fractal]

I mean the voice could've be something else during devlopment for all we know
but rn its best to just assume its Nyleth

[sinful nimbus]

Hm
"An eternal protector, waiting amidst tangled roots at the base of the Citadel. He guards a secret long forgotten and will attack any who stray too close."

[silk dirge]

i mean nyleths shrine does seem long forgotten

[lethal burrow]

what makes you count the big ant, the high hall's gauntlet bug, and the ceiling spitter as bosses?

[silk dirge]

its very hidden

its definitely not something a lot of people would know about

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah I guess it seems most likely he was always meant to fulfill that role

[proud swan]

Why do you guys think seth loses his memory?

Is it because we bound Nyleth?

[sinful nimbus]

Brain eating amoeba in the waters he was knocked into

[edgy nebula]

either some magic thing due to nyleth or we just gave him a big amnesia cartoon bump on his head

[lethal burrow]

He was either released from his station or he was knocked into the river. Depends if you want it to be physical injury or magical oath.

[foggy fractal]

🗣️ had aa brain eating amoebas once
poor fella died of hungry !

[silk dirge]

me

[muted lantern]

Literally this image

[foggy fractal]

I remember there being a variation of the gay on the right blocking it

or parry

[silk dirge]

gay people can parry now

[proud swan]

But he had no memory in greymoor. Bilewater/Petrified ducts is not on the way

[ivory forum]

Surprised theres not a special sealed siblings ending

[proud swan]

Nyleth does speak about memory in her needolin dialogue. To me its more like an oath

[ivory forum]

For binding gm silk instead of doing nedolin

[whole estuary]

this has been true since ultrakill

[foggy fractal]

Hornet to Green Prince

[muted lantern]

It's funny because there's like little to no evidence that hornets a lesbian in the games text but I just am entirely incapable of picturing hornet dating a man.

[proud swan]

wait is that canon

[whole estuary]

she keeps adding women to her soul I think that points to a conclusion

[muted lantern]

True

[silk dirge]

idk

[muted lantern]

We all know lesbians absorb each other

[whole estuary]

Exactly

[sinful nimbus]

Not based enough to be a lesbian I'm afraid

[silk dirge]

the conchflies journal entry ruins hornet for me why cant she be ace like me

[proud swan]

Why would you not accept such a fierce charismatic bug

She is based 😭

[sinful nimbus]

"charismatic" 💔

[edgy nebula]

i love the dead bug's purse cause it isnt even some cool magic item/tool hornet finds it's just a purse she puts her money in that she found on a dead persons body

[sinful nimbus]

There is no racist rizz

[muted lantern]

I mean she could be ace technically, she could only be seeking romantic mates, I think mate just means partner in the HK world

[whole estuary]

Identity is not set in stone, given the course of multiple lifetimes she could be now

[silk dirge]

true

[edgy barn]

We should add fly rascim discussion to the cycle meme

[sinful nimbus]

Do you think crests influence sexuality

[silk dirge]

the illusion of free choice

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/soccer-football-anime-blue-lock-isagi-yoichi-gif-27440248

[muted lantern]

One could also headcannon hornet no longer seeks mates for other reasons than outliving them, she just doesn't realize yet

[edgy nebula]

no but tools might

claw mirror makes hornet gay

[silk dirge]

i wish there were crests irl that could influence gender so i could just select the girl crest and never switch from it

[muted lantern]

Im sure there's already a lot of fics like that (eyeing beast crest with great suspicion)

[whole estuary]

I would love if someone could bind the estrogen out of me

[silk dirge]

sorry you gotta go to whiteward for that

[whole estuary]

NOOOO

[sinful nimbus]

Crests are identity based though

[edgy nebula]

crests are funky why do you just get them from dead bugs

[sinful nimbus]

Are all wyrms genderfluid

[silk dirge]

DO NOT consume the whiteward estrogen

[edgy nebula]

pk is a he isnt he

[edgy barn]

It would be rude to walk up to someone and steal their crest

[muted lantern]

For now

[silk dirge]

i consumed it and now gms is taking me over

[sinful nimbus]

His nature is malleable

[silk dirge]

wrong reply

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe it was Ms. Pale Wyrm before coming to Hallownest

He only became a dude after he took KING'S brand

[silk dirge]

trying whiteward hrt at 3am challenge(gone wrong)

[muted lantern]

Since we are on topic do you think changing your mask is a part of transition?

[silk dirge]

maybe

[sinful nimbus]

Mask Maker is a gender affirming care allegory

[silk dirge]

real

[edgy barn]

If you had no other choice where would you go for medical assistance: Whiteward or Soul Sanctum?

[edgy nebula]

whiteward

[silk dirge]

uhh

[muted lantern]

Mask maker says it's destruction of the self, but it could be metaphorical, kinda reminds me of Isas monologue in isat

[silk dirge]

soul sanctum

[sinful nimbus]

Soul Sanctum ain't even a medical facility

[edgy nebula]

whiteward is actually a medical wing, soul sanctum is just where they take your soul

[sinful nimbus]

Definitely Whiteward

[silk dirge]

did hallownest even have a hospital

or did they just let mfs die

whiteward gets turned into universal healthcare dlc when

[foggy fractal]

Sherma becomes the president of the citadel and gives out universal healthcare trust

also free education

[stray scaffold]

this isn't related but I've been looking into the wiki and wow there are some cool characters/lore topics

I was worried at launch but it turns out I actually like it a lot

[edgy barn]

do the spas heal normal bugs?

[edgy nebula]

love how you can lock judges in purgatory by spam hitting their shield

[proud swan]

Yes

Crests exist in a spectrum

[muted lantern]

Beast crest gives hornet rabies

[spring dagger]

Also unrelated but ive been thinking about the twisted child ending, i mean as in what would've happened if Hornet binded the twisted bud at the end of the true ending... Makes me wonder if it would have any effect on the void, i mean, its described as the darkness itself so..

[muted lantern]

Also how does her voice go so goddamn deep

[edgy barn]

Couldn't be my goat Great Husk Sentry

[muted lantern]

I think if you go to the void while cursed you have to get cured first because the vines force you away from the void

[stray scaffold]

the twisted bud/curse stuff is cool but idk anything about it

[spark valve]

magic xenomorph

[proud swan]

Soul Sanctum is more like an university you go to die

[silk dirge]

i mean universities take your soul

[muted lantern]

So just American college?

[silk dirge]

so its true

[edgy barn]

Parasitic plant reincarnates itself in endless cycle.

[spring dagger]

Oh? I didnt know that, definitely an interesting interaction. I wonder if it would still try to avoid the void (haha) after the thing hatches in the twisted child ending

[silk dirge]

this is why i am learning to make cogflies to attack my professors before a midterm

[proud swan]

This is beautiful. Thanks

[edgy barn]

(Might be related to white lady)

[silk dirge]

ok wait actually

[proud swan]

Please don't. cogflies deserve freedom

[silk dirge]

cogfly plush

[whole estuary]

bell beast plush when

[foggy fractal]

sherma plush

[proud swan]

actually the best plush for hugging

[foggy fractal]

lace plush

[stray scaffold]

reincarnates into greyroot, I guess?

[whole estuary]

I know the second they come out I need to order one for my friend who was being emotional support/emotional hindrance while I played the first time

[foggy fractal]

flea plush

[silk dirge]

give me a huge flea pillow, a bell beast plush and a cogfly plush and you have my money

[stray scaffold]

sherma would make a good figurine

[proud swan]

what about a real cogfly drone that attacks the people you do not agree with. like, you know, actual drones

[whole estuary]

flea plush with fur

[spring dagger]

Silksong merch is gonna go so hard

[edgy barn]

Yeah, their dialogue implies other travellers have "assisted" them in the past.

[silk dirge]

cogfly drone strike

[stray scaffold]

ah interesting!

[pine garden]

Hornet drone operative, how woke

[proud swan]

hey they're canonically red and white what about that

[silk dirge]

REAL

[edgy nebula]

i wonder if the bugs with pins are in blasted steps cause pinstress trained them

[silk dirge]

hornet is a real patriot

shes ready to go get that abyss oil

[proud swan]

girls get it done

[muted lantern]

Do you guys think lace would still be partly void after the ending or is she fully freed from it?

[pine garden]

they/them army so woke

[spark valve]

it's said they were using them as walking sticks primarily

[silk dirge]

more evidence for my void = oil theory

[pine garden]

implied she's free from void. She was next to Hornet while she was carrying the anti-void Flower

[muted lantern]

Flower did run out by the end, leaving them both submerged

[spring dagger]

if the knight/void helped her i suppose they wouldn't want to leave void traces or modifications in lace

[pine garden]

yeah but at that point Hornet would've also been voided, which I doubt especially with the Knight helping her out

[spark valve]

Hard-Shelled bug with a climber's pin. Their pin, once aid, has become a weapon, though the bug is unrefined in its use.

[edgy nebula]

ah

[proud swan]

what? you mean the pale imperialist colonizer is trying to somehow extract power through reaching for the depths of the abyss so they can resist and be "the only kingdom?"

makes no sense. sorry. no allegory here

[pine garden]

yeah the Knight was nice enough to save Lace as well. Deadass while I was going through true ending cutscene for the first time and didn't immediantly see Lace, I went "oh shit did Knight just leave her behind as he didn't care?"

[silk dirge]

the pale king actually was throwing oil away back to the abyss how nice

[edgy barn]

Why does beating Lace up free her from void, how does that work.

[pine garden]

I forgot that the Knight is pretty nice in HK and he helps people out whenever asked to

[spring dagger]

Runs in the family

[proud swan]

I think she was freed from it. But it is weird, cause it would be the first bug to be free from it. Its kinda nice though because that probably mean all bugs eventually were freed

[cyan salmon]

I don’t know much about silksong or hollow knight but who wants to be friends

[pine garden]

My assumption is the flower that Hornet had with her had something to do with it

[proud swan]

If void has a partial grasp into silk for example and bugs were only affected because of GMS, freed lace is freed pharloom

[spring dagger]

You can always learn! The games are definitely pretty interesting and fun, absolute peak