sk-lore

[silver spire]

yea but its not like a physical area, more like their memory

[abstract rivet]

is the elegy of the deep going to dream realm or the past

[whole holly]

idk essence would be added somehow, maybe not dream nail but needolin could be upgraded

[lean temple]

I think a boss rush dlc would be saved for last maybe

[sinful nimbus]

Memories are made of essence

[silver spire]

the dream realm is maleable, literally able to create entirely new areas not present in the physical world

[graceful flicker]

Is the dream realm physical either?

[silver spire]

is that confirmed? nowhere was that stated

[edgy barn]

Sadly yeah, that's likely

[sinful nimbus]

Seer describes the essence in the dream nail as memories

[abstract rivet]

It would be funny if Team Cherry went “fuck that” and added a whole hell themed area thats basically actually hell

[sinful nimbus]

In general "Dreams" refers to all the general mind stuff in the HK universe

[silver spire]

meanwhile the memories we get from using elegy of the deep are only replications of someone's best recall of something

[abstract rivet]

is karmelita not alive then

or Khan etc

[spare pendant]

i think ive found the worst possible timeline (sealed siblings into cursed ending)

[sinful nimbus]

So

[graceful flicker]

well she talks. Khann is definitely dead

[sinful nimbus]

Its not like dreams in HK were all accurate to the physical world either

[silver spire]

that's just overextending, the properties of the silk space stuff are entirely different from the dream realm, and we don't enter the dream realm when using elegy of the deep

[sinful nimbus]

We do

[silver spire]

yes but they could be entirely new areas such as godhome that never existed physically

[abstract rivet]

the shamans are a fucking bitch bro i swear

its always the bad shit coming out from those mfs

[sinful nimbus]

I don't know why this couldn't be the case in SS

[silver spire]

while the memories from elegy of the deep have to have existed at some point as evidenced by the coral tower, karmelita's colliseum/stage etc. and nyleth's place

[spare pendant]

memories are not the same as dreams

[frank dove]

I actually heard similarities between shakra and last judge and looked it up to confirm

[silver spire]

because there's not enough evidence, nor do we see the essence itself

[sinful nimbus]

We enter the minds of people reminiscing of course its going to be a memory

We do this with White Defender too

[silver spire]

and lost verdania also existed

[lean temple]

The humble nightmare realm

[edgy barn]

Wouldn't The Hollow Knight into Sealed Siblings be effectively the same?

[silver spire]

ok but like, it's different in silksong because stuff like godhome exists in hollow knight, but in silksong it's only real places, and theres this weird area between where its just like silk based

[abstract rivet]

one boss arena

[silver spire]

which the dream realm never put u in

[edgy barn]

I meant Cursed Ending, not Sealed Siblings Lmao

[spare pendant]

sealed siblings cant happen after thk, it's one or the other

[abstract rivet]

what happens in cursed ending

[silver spire]

parasite cooks

[abstract rivet]

actually imma watch its cutscene

[edgy barn]

The parasite consumes both Hornet and GMS and is reborn

[spare pendant]

oh, i think it's worse because hornet doesn't even get to live her life before pharloom, she just gets drained of her power used 24/7 basically

[silver spire]

there's not enough evidence to say that the elegy of the deep puts you into the dream realm

[sinful nimbus]

I struggle to see how this means that it isn't the dream realm

You enter the minds of people 🥴

Those are dreams

[spare pendant]

there is no evidence that it's in the dream world

[lean temple]

The heart exists in the deepest darkest reaches of the Nightmare Realm. It's definitely much bigger than that one arena

[silver spire]

okay but the dream realm is an entirely different plane 🙄

[sinful nimbus]

What?

[silver spire]

i don't think that the elegy of the deep does the same thing, other than some spare bits of evidence such as hornets waking up

[eternal sigil]

they give you DDark, can't be all bad

[wind oar]

isn’t the realm you enter the same one GMS transports you to every time you get a silk heart?

[silver spire]

it's not conclusive is what i'm trying to say

[sinful nimbus]

They both let you access the minds of individuals
Take a guess where minds in HK are

[frank dove]

Guys team cherry just confirmed sealed siblings canon

[limpid summit]

I feel like the needolin does have a dream realm connection but it’s not as essence based

[frank dove]

Which is obvious bc it has most to do with hornet

Setting it up for a sequel they said

[whole holly]

yes Needolin and Dream Nail are different methods of accesing minds of bugs

[eternal sigil]

my honest reaction

[spare pendant]

crazy silkpost

[frank dove]

Yes but it is real

[silver spire]

okay, but the properties of the mind space is different for the dreams in HK and silksong memories

[silk dirge]

send evidence

[sacred heath]

let’s see some evidence trucker boy

[silver spire]

for example, entering Godhome doesn't put you in a purgatory type space, it just transports you directly to the area that never existed

[frank dove]

I actually have no relation to trucking companies

I lost it idk

Wrong device

[edgy barn]

What's the worse possible version of THK ending? As in, the one where ghost makes things as a bad as possible for the hypothethical next vessel that comes along. I am thinking of one where they take the King's Brand but do not open the abyss, and then take the half of the kingsoul in the white palace

[spare pendant]

Mods won't like you shitposting here, just so yk

[silk dirge]

"i have evidence a translator told me team cherry told them to make green princes twins" ahh

[silk dirge]

thats crazy considering shitposting is better than like 90% of recent discussions in this channel

[glossy badger]

You go into people's memories

[sinful nimbus]

Because you are entering the essence upon Hornet's silk yes

[plush oyster]

I wonder why Joni wasn't revived by the Lifeblood in Hallownest

[silver spire]

in Silksong, entering someone's memories always puts you in a silk purgatory before entering the actual memory, as well as having some distinct features such as the area only being as accurate as the bearer's memories (never really happened in HK)

like for example, green prince not being able to recall the throne room until enough balls were collected

[silk dirge]

oh yeah like how green prince doesnt remember

[glossy badger]

Yes

[silk dirge]

yeah

[silver spire]

hornet not able to remember her mother's face

[silk dirge]

wdym lost verdania go find it

[sacred heath]

which is heartbreaking by the way

[sinful nimbus]

Kid named Grey Prince Zote

[terse stump]

i mean, doesn't she have a mask?

[limpid summit]

Honestly getting as strong as possible by taking everything and then only taking one half of the Kingsoul and doing THK

[silver spire]

the only similar event in HK is white defender, which even then is more like an arena

[limpid summit]

It’s doubtful that another vessel will even come along

[silver spire]

...theres no way we're bad faithing an argument right?

[glossy badger]

We are and you will engage with it

[sacred heath]

new speedrun category unlocked

[sinful nimbus]

Its an inaccurate depiction of real life spawned from its source's own delusional memory

[silver spire]

GPZ wasn't even real, nor a memory, he was a projection of how bretta viewed him and created an entire dream realm area based off of that projection. it's not similar to silksong as in silksong, entire chunks of a memory are missing

[silk dirge]

wait interesting discussion could hornet learn to use like basic soul spells

so like vs, desolate dive, wraiths

[silver spire]

the memories in silksong aren't delusional, rather are based off of the inability to remember what was

[terse stump]

she does have soul

[silk dirge]

i mean groal could use vs

[sinful nimbus]

But you see how these two things are comparable, yes?

[terse stump]

and can use it with hunter's crest

[silk dirge]

which tells me learning to manipulate soul in a basic way isnt that hard

[rain gate]

I dont think she can channel soul directly the way the knight can, she would probably do it via silk by instinct

[silver spire]

to an extent, yes, but not to the point of undeniable connection

[limpid summit]

Honestly getting the entirety of kingsoul would be pretty bad too

[silk dirge]

yeah i dont think she can focus

[limpid summit]

Then you just have everything and you throw it away

[silver spire]

funny how groal and soul master, the mortal bugs that tried to use soul, both are bloated up

[limpid summit]

Hornet does naturally have soul from PK too

So she could probably learn non silk spells

[silk dirge]

probably silk spells are just better for her tho

[limpid summit]

Probably

[rain gate]

They serve the same purpose an are probably easier for her to use

[glossy badger]

It's cool how the weavers made tools because they were running out of silk

[silk dirge]

i mean you cant threadstorm with soul +1 hornet +0 knight

[rain gate]

Now if Hornet could use desolate dive...

[golden olive]

u mean she has control over soul?

[silk dirge]

honestly im kinda curious can hornet just make tools out of silk

[limpid summit]

Yes

[silk dirge]

it seems to me heavily implied weavers can just create shit out of silk

[golden olive]

they can make runes n magical shit like that

[glossy badger]

Well silkshot seems to be like that

[silk dirge]

id bet tools are a combination of shell shards and silk

[rain gate]

Snare setter specifically mentions using silk

[silk dirge]

if team cherry removed shell shards id bet that would probably be a good explanation

[rain gate]

I think the others are just normal

[silk dirge]

hornet is just making the tools out of silk

[golden olive]

i think the silk is more just binding the tools together like twine

[glossy badger]

Oh yeah

I've never used it sadly

[rain gate]

Neither did i

[trim lark]

isnt that because you literally use up silk while USING the tool

[cedar skiff]

i like how hornet views tools as stuff that makes up for traits of other species she wished shed have

[glossy badger]

Heres a cool tool that you'll never get to use

[trim lark]

i used it
it does use silk

[silk dirge]

apparently snare setter is really good but gets taken away for act 3

[rain gate]

Yes

[cedar skiff]

i love the journal entries where she goes hmm i wish i could do this. maybe i could turn this into a tool...

[silk dirge]

you should be able to punch the snail shaman to get it back

give me back my tool its mine

[trim lark]

so true

[glossy badger]

Genuinely

[silk dirge]

theres no way bro still needs the instructions

[rain gate]

Well doesn't he use it to make the trap?

[glossy badger]

We have ten of them aswell and we know how to craft it

[trim lark]

hornet forgor

💔

[silk dirge]

he takes the instructions to make them is what it looks like

[glossy badger]

Hornet has a book she can write in is she stupid

[abstract rivet]

I got true ending at like 64% comp i gotta 100% the game the hard way

[silk dirge]

ok wait interesting discussion what was the far sight originally used for

[abstract rivet]

who created snail shamans i wanna have talk with them

[silk dirge]

im kinda curious why weavers needed "observations over large distances"

possibly to plan escapes?

[rain gate]

To see their whole kingdom

[glossy badger]

Maybe that's how they found hollownest

[cedar skiff]

hallownest had the same

i guess its a normal thing for kingdoms to have

[silk dirge]

its pretty different

[cedar skiff]

yeah the farsight is likely crazier

or whatever it was exactly called, cant remember

weavers always making some bullshit

[glossy badger]

Weavers were still at war

[abstract mulch]

I mean it could be related to how there were traces of weavers in hallownest

It could be for long distance communication and other such things

[glossy badger]

Also what is weaving runes

Like what are runes for

[silk dirge]

probably similar purpose to seals of binding

[rain gate]

"Many tasks" according to hornet

[silk dirge]

i wonder what weavenests are made of

they seem to be made of a much higher quality than any building by a common bug

i definitely think silk was involved

[dapper willow]

Is it possible that there are choir remnants outside of pharloom who avoided the haunting?

[glossy badger]

Sometimes I wish this game would be less vague

[terse warren]

I don't see why they would be out of Pharloom for so long that they avoid the haunting

[dapper willow]

hunting for weavers
Although that came after the haunting, maybe
So who knows
Maybe there was an exploratory group

[edgy barn]

You mean worldsense?

[silk dirge]

that came during the haunting

[dapper willow]

Me ever since hollow knight:

[terse warren]

GMS was hunting for weavers, why would the choir be doing that?

[silk dirge]

anyways yeah weaver architecture is very interesting to me

[terse warren]

For all they know, the Weavers might be extinct

[silk dirge]

its definitely something i want to see discussed more than the 5 or so topics this channel cant stop discussing every single day

[dapper willow]

Thats why I said exploratory group too
Pharloom is huge and has a lot of history
Lots of things could happen

[terse warren]

I mean I guess? But I doubt

[finite cave]

hornet is genuinely a massive hater

she saw herself in the green prince but also saw that he decided to just mope around and KILLED HIM for it😭😭😭

she KILLED A MF for mourning his partner

[silk dirge]

yeah

just so she could hang the heart up in her home

[finite cave]

and it never stops beating either

[silk dirge]

green prince has such a skill issue tho wdym lost verdania go find it

[finite cave]

she rips out his heart and hangs it up like a trophy bro💔💔💔

[silk dirge]

also lost garmond and lost lace are literally what theyre right there wdym lost

[terse warren]

Green Prince: "Leave me to mourn now"

Hornet: "Aight"

Melody of the Deep

[silk dirge]

actually its elegy

get it right

we cant have small mistakes in this channel

[finite cave]

" hey gang can you let me be sad for a little "

The humble mind invader song:

[terse warren]

Actually the dialogue I quoted isn't exact

[silk dirge]

true true

[dapper willow]

Hornet restores green prince's memory just so she can kill him better

[silk dirge]

did anyone else think green prince was a backer character when they first met him

[left oyster]

I know the Elegy of the Deep is from the Ancient Civilization, the Snails just passed it onto Hornet
I just can't prove it yet

[dapper willow]

He stood out to me a lot because of his color
I tried to immediately save him

[dapper willow]

https://tenor.com/view/dexter-james-doakes-surprise-mf-can't-prove-it-gif-7408854170742055240

[silk dirge]

why was green prince imprisoned

ive never seen this answered

it doesnt seem like it was the citadel

[finite cave]

could have been

[left oyster]

You know the usage of the word Deep invokes the Abyss to me
And by extension, Void and the AC

[dapper willow]

The roach area's people are just assholes

[limpid summit]

I know the Mask Makers are connected to the Steel Masters I just can’t prove it yet

[silk dirge]

i feel like it probably couldve been the roach keepers

especially since one drops a simple key

[limpid summit]

Probably the roachkeepers

[whole holly]

guys is Coral Forest simply cut from game or is it redesigned as sands of karak and blasted steps?

[silk dirge]

yeah redesigned

[dapper willow]

its sands of karak and memory sequence

[finite cave]

oh also do yall think the green prince's partner is the 12th penitent or whatever?

[silk dirge]

nah

they dont look anything alike

[whole holly]

what is Mask Maker lore?

[silk dirge]

and we see his partner

[finite cave]

the one who didnt get absolution and did an unnamed sin

[terse warren]

Evidence for this:

- The Abyss is also "deep"
-
-

...

[finite cave]

we see the one who commits the unnamed sin?

[limpid summit]

Silksong suggests that Mask Makers are “charged” to make masks, and that they wear masks of their own to make the task “easier”

[whole holly]

wait who commited it?

[silk dirge]

no you see his partner when you go to verdania

[finite cave]

not confirmed

[terse warren]

The guy's soul is in the Cogwork Dancers he's not a prisoner

[mental vale]

So- Who's gonna tell Yarnaby about the "Plasmium" Outbreak in the Wormways?

Surely society and the scientific community will come crawling back to her once she makes a groundbreaking discovery with that newfangled resource

[left oyster]

It is the Void beneath all things
What is deeper than that

[limpid summit]

I think that they’re somehow connected to the Steel Masters, as their confusing task as we know it would certainly be anti-order (as Jinn suggests)

[edgy barn]

Yarnaby thinks lifeblood is good actually

[terse warren]

Iirc she doesn't give a shit about plasmium

[silk dirge]

steel masters are definitely involved with void

sharpe + jiji who i assume is a vassal of jinn can summon void

[dry heart]

Hollow knight universe is kinda like minecraft.. if you dig deep enough theres void 😭✌️

[whole holly]

maybe they are against Higher Beings in general and order they bring, they are against that as whole

[dry heart]

Now stay with me here

[terse warren]

Sharpe has no relation at all to Void

[silk dirge]

he looks very void like

[terse warren]

Jiji being able to summon Void isn't normal, she has never seen Void before

[left oyster]

Yeah but like the Elegy of the Deep clearly invokes the Ancient Civilization to me

What else is Deep???

[terse warren]

He does not, we've been over this so many times

[dire sinew]

does silksong answer where the rancid eggs in hollow knight come from

[silk dirge]

i have not seen this discussion

[dire sinew]

or like where blugsaccs come from

[whole holly]

Sharpe seemed to have Void Tendril as hand, but i guess technically he isn't confirmed to be void yet

[naive lake]

i am to believe bugs in hollow knight are human sized, they just have the one piece type of scaling

[terse warren]

The Masters hate the Void and they hunt down anyone who uses it as "tainted"

[finite cave]

ass jim is void by that logic

[limpid summit]

Sharpe’s swing looks visually similar to void but we know how unreliable that is
All we know is that it’s a Proboscis

[whole holly]

are they just eggs that are rancid

[dire sinew]

hornet is void then

[terse warren]

Sharpe is black that's all the point for "he looks like void"

[rain gate]

The masters may be void because jinn compares voidheart knight to the masters

[silk dirge]

whats up with summoned saviour

[finite cave]

dont they come from those bluggsac gyts

[dry heart]

I mean do we really know if she has that power if hollow knight canon route is steelsoul where we cant trade her?

Anyway her powers just summon past regrets or wtv doesnt need to have anything to do with void?

[silk dirge]

i mean his attack looks like a void tendril but thats all

[whole holly]

this is really good point

[rain gate]

I actually wrote something about it earlier

[limpid summit]

The wish? No... pale It... Zi sensed clear your meeting... The rite... The vassal is tarnished. They have touched the dark.

Jinn does say that we as Void Heart are similar to the Masters. I don’t rly see this as “they hate void” maybe they think of themselves the only ones able to use it

[terse warren]

Zi says that the masters are going to chase Sula and kill him for having summoned the Void so I don't think that's a point in your favor

[spare pendant]

Steel clan definitely has relation to void

[rain gate]

^

[terse warren]

Read literally the next dialogue

[limpid summit]

Yes

Sula will be hunted because he’s just a regular vassal who tried to mess with void

[silk dirge]

having void as your opponent is a relation to the void

[limpid summit]

Considering Sula can summon it haphazardly Jiji likely hypothetically does have the power to do so

[terse warren]

Sula is going to get hunted down to the end of the world for just using Void I don't think the masters are the biggest fans

[silk dirge]

just saying

[limpid summit]

She just never does

[whole holly]

but why is Jiji allowed to summon our shade then?

[limpid summit]

She doesn’t canonically

[terse warren]

She canonically doesn't

[mint furnace]

A lot of people seem to have relation to the void

[limpid summit]

She just is able to

[mint furnace]

Anyone with decently strong magic

[silk dirge]

ok how is jiji canonical at all then

[whole holly]

elaborate?

[rain gate]

Because sulas a vassal

[limpid summit]

We can’t respawn so she never summons our shade for us

[silk dirge]

bc if steel soul is canonical

then jiji doesnt exist

[limpid summit]

Sula doesn’t have a title they likely aren’t charged to deal with void

[silk dirge]

and also tuk being dead is canon

[naive lake]

So only steel soul is the canon gamemode

[limpid summit]

Jiji says her masters would be “impressed” by VH

[silk dirge]

yeah

[terse warren]

Read Hunter's Journal

[rain gate]

She's mentioned by jinn though

[naive lake]

so shade is not a real thing

Like, separste from us

[silk dirge]

theres a hunters journal entry for tuk? /j

[terse warren]

Hunter's Journal is canon and mentions Jinn, Jiji and Tuk

[limpid summit]

Steel Soul is a slightly “later” timeline where Tuk is dead and Jiji left the kingdom

Both are equally canon to SS cause Hornet has met Jiji

[silk dirge]

ok wait this is actually kinda interesting

[whole holly]

can't non-canon can have lore explanation as well, like why is jiji allowed to summon our shade in non-canon universe

[silk dirge]

this is the shit i missed bc the hunter is a stupid character who i dont like

[limpid summit]

Ellina comes in the middle of our journey cause she sees marks of us around

[naive lake]

in steel soul hornet just eats silk eaters because they are tadty or do they stop existing as a mechanic

[heavy gyro]

Because she can summon void

[naive lake]

i have never playerd stee soul

[limpid summit]

She’s the equivalent of a therapist considering “confessor”, in the context of HK void serves as a metaphor for regrets so that’s what she summons

[whole holly]

but why is she allowed to if vassals can't summon it and will be hunted down if they do so

[limpid summit]

Canonically she is a confessor and can summon void

[rain gate]

You can sell them to an npc

[limpid summit]

She has a title and a charge

[naive lake]

oh okay

[limpid summit]

Sula is just there to be alongside Zi while they do their work in a dead kingdom he hasn’t gotten a job yet

[sacred heath]

we need steel city lore and we need it now

[limpid summit]

You can sell them to a Nosk

[silk dirge]

dlc i hope

[whole holly]

oh, so Jiji isn't Vassal like sula is or has higher title?

[naive lake]

we need hollow knight pablo to unlock steel city

[rain gate]

It might not even be called the steel city
Hallownest is called the kingdom of the white wyrm

[limpid summit]

Yeah she’s probably higher than Sula but they fulfill the same role as like a mortal bug paired up with a steel construct

[rain gate]

Jiji is most likely higher ranked than Sula yes

[silk dirge]

im curious what the weaver who was captured there did

[whole holly]

okay, thanks

[limpid summit]

Who knows

But it was enslaved by the masters

[silk dirge]

do we think masters are hb or normal dudes

i think theyre higher than normal bugs but not hb

[limpid summit]

No way of knowing

[whole holly]

does citadel mention it, do they try to retrieve weavers?

[silk dirge]

just random predictions

[rain gate]

And it was there for 2 generations since it was weaver in quarter part

[naive lake]

these masters feel like higher beings

[limpid summit]

Interestingly the steel city had the most choir bugs die capturing the Weaver

My goat Sharpe put in work

[naive lake]

not pale beings tho, just higher beins

[finite cave]

poor guy tho

[terse warren]

Zi hopes for his survival at least

[whole holly]

they seem to be higher caste, it would be weird if they were multiple higher beings

[finite cave]

he probably won't if the masters are that capable unfortunately

[whole holly]

is Sula hunted down by steel assasins

[terse warren]

Yes

[rain gate]

Maybe there like a hive mind

[terse warren]

Well, by the Masters

[silk dirge]

ok wait imagine dlc is pharloom bay and you can take a boat to city of steel

that would go so fucking hard

i need it

[limpid summit]

Implied that sharpe and the gang are coming

[whole holly]

maybe

[silk dirge]

so i wonder if sharpe is like a high ranking guy

he seems like he could be some sort of general for the steel city

[limpid summit]

I LOVE sharpe sharpe stocks are higher than ever

Sharpe will be so gas

[silk dirge]

also what was up with the steel dudes in coral gorge in reveal trailer

[finite cave]

the assassins WILL be dlc🥹🥹🥹🥹

[rain gate]

The guy who made Sharpe waiting 10 years for his backer character to finally be added to the game

[silk dirge]

i think that was probably just a scene they threw together randomly

[whole holly]

it makes sense why pharloom bay would separate pharloom and steel city, lakes/bays are natural barriers so it wouldn't be connected to pharloom naturally

[silk dirge]

bc it doesnt feel like it makes sense

[bronze turret]

Oooh, are we discussing possible DLC content??

[silk dirge]

yup

[finite cave]

imagine if our first assassin encounter is on the boat to the city

[silk dirge]

didnt tc mention sharpe is a "rival" to hornet or smth like that

[limpid summit]

Yes

[bronze turret]

I'm betting on it having some more content on the people from the City of Steel!

[silk dirge]

i wonder what that could mean

[limpid summit]

TC put sharpe on the same pedestal as Lace and I expect them to deliver

[whole holly]

where is second sentinel, after i give him heart and he kills the bugs?

[silk dirge]

bc that implies they have some sort of beef

[naive lake]

sfeel city feels like it would be a hidden capital Built above the void itself in the abyss

[rain gate]

Also it's important to note that the weaver child wasn't captured in the city of steel, they were captured beneath it

[upper copper]

I don’t get it. What was greyroot’s intentions?

[silk dirge]

maybe it could be an underworks type deal

[hollow fog]

can someone explain me the general lore of rulers of pharloom?

[whole holly]

ther nature seems opposite as well, i wonder if lace will help us

[silk dirge]

they were staked to service in the underworks of city of steel

[rain gate]

Maybe

[bronze turret]

I'm guessing a narrative parallel similar to Ghost and Zote. Zote is the trope parody of the hero's rival.

[edgy barn]

Reincarnating using Hornet as a host.

[limpid summit]

If sharpe is a joke character that would be a letdown

Considering the steel gas it’s doubtful

[bronze turret]

It'd be nice if the DLC elaborated a bit more on the Greyroot aspect of the world-building, ngl! It's an interesting piece of lore that I'd like to see explored

[rain gate]

Nah they mention hornet will be fighting for her life

[silk dirge]

i mean if thats what the backer requested then it would have to be

but i doubt it

[rain gate]

Root dlc and steel dlc maybe

[silk dirge]

honestly ive warmed up to the idea of a rebuilding pharloom after act 3 dlc

i think it could be kinda nice

[hollow fog]

can someone explain me the general lore of rulers of pharloom? who created the kingdom, who ruled it afterwards etc and who and why caused the haunting?

[silk dirge]

originally i wasnt a fan bc usually thats up to player imagination but i think it could be a neat idea

i mean people here really want to actually be able to "restore a kingdoms hope" so i guess that would work for that

[upper copper]

What is the next step after putting the parasite in her? Does she just wait?

[bronze turret]

True, I felt like there was some sort of resolution missing to the ending cutscene, something post-game that at least allows us to interact with the NPCs and let us know what they're thinking. It's one of the parts of Team Cherry's design that I love most (visual and narrative continuity beyond the main quest)

[limpid summit]

In very very short
Grand Mother Silk a higher being uses silk to turn regular bugs into Weavers
At some point she loses interest in them and tries to create a daughter entirely of silk, her first one is a complete failure her second one requires tons of silk to sustain
The Weavers are angered and seal her, building the Citadel as a place of worship as well as her tomb
They rule as evil overlords for a while until a bug religion formed around the Citadel ousts them and kills a lot of them some flee to places like Hallownest
These bugs eventually want to become immortal and start experimenting with Silk to do it, this causes GMS to stir and start manipulating them, she sends them to hunt Weavers to get silk to wake her up and that’s where it begins

There’s also groups of bugs like the crust warriors the verdanians the skaar who existed pre GMS but were wiped out by one of the factions

[eternal sigil]

Sudden thought: the Flea Caravan not having a proper merchant is deeply unfortunate

It's a flea circus with no flea market?!

[rain gate]

Various tribes like coral, ants, etc existed
Gms shows up and creates the weavers
Weavers eventually seal her away in the citadel and rule the kingdom
They know gms will wake up so some run and some stay, and they pass rule of the citadel onto the conductors, architects, and vaultkeepers
Gms begins waking up and then yeah the haunting happens

[limpid summit]

Hornet using Hunter osmosis to find all the fleas without paying Yog a cent (the player looked them up)

[bronze turret]

To add to it, it's worth noting it wasn't the creation of a daughter that angered them, but the fact that they figured Mother Silk to be a tyrant who'd force anyone under her control if they as much as swayed in their faith and worship (cue First Sinner being accused of Apostasy)

[hollow fog]

what are the weavers doing "now"? will it be explained in act 3? if yes, i'd like to learn it myself

[edgy barn]

Yeah. The parasite is in the host so it's just a matter of time before they are consumed. It is implied that Hornet would have succumbed a lot quicker if not for her strong half-wyrm shell.

[limpid summit]

The weavers are mostly dead and gone as the game shows

[rain gate]

The ones in pharloom are all dead except for widow

[limpid summit]

There’s some act 3 stuff I won’t spoil

[mossy cradle]

who tf is trobbio and why does he think he's grimm💔

[left oyster]

Weavers are gonna fucking die off one by one cause they have no males

Sure there's hybrids but even then the Weavers are mostly infertile

[rain gate]

Yk that is actually an interesting point

Probably why they can't bear full-blooded offspring

[whole holly]

if some Weavers Retured by themselves do we know where they are in Pharloom? timeline wise

[bronze turret]

Trobbio is a thespian, not a circus ringleader He's a comedic character and rather fun when you catch him in his shenanigans

[rain gate]

I dont think we meet any male weavers ever

[limpid summit]

I think full weavers are always born female

[left oyster]

There are NO male weavers
Even the Weaver tablets say "Sisters, spiders" referring to other weavers

[limpid summit]

At the very least if not all weavers

[edgy barn]

Weavers as a whole are also referred by terms such as "sisters" , "mothers" and "daughters"

[bronze turret]

Yeah, it's safe to say the game leans towards the "woman-only society" trope with them

[whole holly]

that likely cause GMS wanted Daughter's not sons so She ascended only female Pharlids, but i don't think most of game's horrific events would occur if GMS was boy mom

[left oyster]

GMS is SEXIST smh

[shy wren]

So what’s the relevance of sinners road

[heavy gyro]

It's the path to the citadel that avoids the last judge

[left oyster]

It's a place used to imprison people other than the Slab
And it grows food

[rain gate]

Alternate way to reach the citadel but it's the "sinful" way to do it, hence the name

[whole holly]

yeah, is it road for people who aren't pilgrims?

[shy wren]

Ah

So that’s why it’s disgusting

[rain gate]

And a prison/roach ranch

[bronze turret]

Lore-wise? It was the place where they used to grow fresh food the Greymoor inhabitants used to consume, but now it's a cesspool of decay and disease after the interference of the Citadel forced their will upon the locals. Iirc, it's the tavern owner who first mentions it

[spark valve]

I don’t think it was really a road to the exhaust organ given that you have to break shit to get there, it’s probably just called sinner’s road in contrast to the holy road which leads to the citadel whereas sinner’s road doesn’t

[silk dirge]

weavers are the reverse of bitchless

[bronze turret]

They are bitchful?

I'm sorry, I couldn't help the joke!

[edgy barn]

Also, you would to get past the mist and beat Phantom to enter the citadel.

[silk dirge]

i just realized this message sent way later than i thought it did lol

[silk dirge]

it was a response to this 😭

lovely college wifi

[rain gate]

Lol

[edgy barn]

"You visited them pens up above here, miss? Horrid place, once all about growing meat or some such. Meant to keep us moorbugs livin', and working, its sic told...
That damned place's long gone to the Haunting. And now the meat's running feral and free. "

[limpid summit]

Factory farm gone rogue

[bronze turret]

Yes that dialogue! Thanks!

[lime nova]

It seems to me that while the Dream Nail mostly showed the dreams and ideals of bugs, the Needolin is a lot more tied to memory and the past

[finite cave]

wait so about the lord sire or whatever his name was was he a aweaver? /genq i didnt pay attention to the deepnest lore npcs and tablets and all

[silk dirge]

no

[brisk thunder]

maybe another kind of spider，but not a weaver

[graceful grail]

It seems like the Citedel Waste just DESIMATES everything to the right of it.

[lime nova]

Weavers can seemingly only be women

[silk dirge]

probably doesnt help most of the university looks like this

[lime nova]

Common colonialism L

[edgy barn]

Yeah that's were the exhaust organ is located

[silk dirge]

case in point that message sent super late lmao

i love this university but the environment is suboptimal for good wifi

[lime nova]

Oh wow you live very far northwest eh?

[finite cave]

This border bounds the twisting, scratching things. Their dead sire, once of honoured caste. Their sealed mother, but the common beast. who i'm referring to

[silk dirge]

no this is in california

[lime nova]

Oh fr? Those trees looked northern to me

Granted I've not been southwest before

[finite cave]

also do yall think hornet was a bit more gentle with karmelita in the real world because of vespa

i see the parallels personally

[lime nova]

I was getting a Vancouver vibe, but that's the only place on the west coast I've been

[edgy barn]

Herrah is no longer a common beast as of silksong, but the sire can't be a weaver regardless because weavers are only female.

[lime nova]

Absolutely

[silk dirge]

theyre redwoods

[finite cave]

i knew about the herrah thing but wasnt 100% on the weaver part ty

[silk dirge]

so they can be found in the pnw as well

all up and down the west coast

[lime nova]

Silksong has quite a few retcons it seems

[graceful grail]

Could this be a Rly big Snail Shaman??

[lime nova]

Some rocks just look like that in HK

btw guys, I made this thing yesterday and sent it here, but it's just to show the scale of Hornet's relatives and how much they can vary in size. All of these are to scale

[finite cave]

tribe of bugs who resisted their land's respective infection with their leader's guidance but once their leader became unable to rule (karmelita became too big and weak, vespa became too big and died) they began to get infected slowly but the infected still have some sense of companionship?? in a way?? the skarrs work with other skarrs and the hivelings don't attack you when you have hiveblood

[silver spire]

PK was a short man xd

[silk dirge]

yeah i think hive and skarr are supposed to parallel eachother

[dapper willow]

the knight is such a small guy woah

[lime nova]

This is true

[silver spire]

SHORT SUPREMECY

[finite cave]

i remember when people thought the skarrs would be the mantises of silksong

[dapper willow]

imagine being the shortest higher being

[silk dirge]

its just a little guy

[finite cave]

i think there being no mantis equivalent in silksong shows how the haunting is still lethal even despite its differences to the infection

[silver spire]

to an extent they are

[lime nova]

I wanted to put the cast off shell in there too, but it was hard to find a good sprite of it

[edgy barn]

Does anyone have the needolin dialogue for the Last Claw (Karmelita's guards)?

[open dragon]

Mossbag is REALLY gonna have a field day with Silksong's lore omg lol

[rain gate]

Wiki

Does not have it yet lol

[edgy barn]

Yeah I had already checked

[heavy gyro]

It wouldn't make sense for there to be needolin dialogue

[edgy barn]

why not. Almost every enemy and npc has it

[finite cave]

idk if they have any it might just be karmelita's needolin dialogue

would make sense

[edgy barn]

They could also have the generic Skarr dialogue but I hope that's not the case.

[finite cave]

i think it would be funny if they were also just humming her song

[scenic stirrup]

Why did hornet lose her silk skills when she entered pharloom

[heavy gyro]

Do the other enemies in the memories have needolin dialogue?

[finite cave]

metroid logic

[rain gate]

Weakened by cage

[scenic stirrup]

She got caged again but didnt lose all her stuff

[rain gate]

Considering she has several heart attacks at the start of the game

[scenic stirrup]

After she recovered it

Why is that btw

[edgy barn]

The bosses themselves yeah.

[scenic stirrup]

Ppl say its a panic attack

[rain gate]

I saw someone say it was gms trying to haunt her

[heavy gyro]

Nvm what I said then

[wind oar]

silksong lore is a lot less cryptic than hollow knight lore

[scenic stirrup]

Would yall watch a hollow knight show

[silk dirge]

yes

but they need to do it well

[scenic stirrup]

The art style might bait some kids to watch it

Gets scarred by mass infanticide

[silk dirge]

8 year old traumatized after seeing shade lord

[sage summit]

Wait just realized silksong has doomed yaoi in it

[scenic stirrup]

Its awesome

Og game had doomed yuri

[rain gate]

And non-doomed yaoi

[sage summit]

Mantis people right?

Or I'm misremembering

[rain gate]

Traitors daughter and grey mourner

[sage summit]

Ohhh ok

[rain gate]

Delicate flower quest

[scenic stirrup]

Potential for doomed yaoi depending if u kill the nailsmith

[edgy barn]

If you kill the nailsmith he never meets Sheo

[left oyster]

You fool I already have imagined an entire HK animated series in my mind

[scenic stirrup]

What bugs are the nail masters

[left oyster]

Thus the power of unemployment

[edgy barn]

If in doubt, assume it's a beetle.

[silk dirge]

the problem is the series would have to be animated by ari so it would mean team cherry cant work on other games

[left oyster]

I have made a comic about it and music but it never really got past the sketch and piano track phase

[left oyster]

I'm pretty sure that they can hire animators that can emulate Ari's style

[silk dirge]

idk it wouldnt feel the same

[scenic stirrup]

Could outsource it ye but i never really thought that a show would make a third of team cherry not develop games anymore

[left oyster]

tfym if they emulate the style it's gonna look the same
that's the point of emulating an artstyle

[scenic stirrup]

So like instead of 8 years next time its 11 years

😭

[lime nova]

btw I think the real reason the "delicate flower" is so delicate in the Knight's hands is a retcon because the Knight is made of void, which slowly erodes the flower

[lucid smelt]

https://tenor.com/view/job-job-application-jobless-gif-2757097081210871087

[left oyster]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[lucid smelt]

i think i figured out the lore

[lime nova]

Uh oh

[lucid smelt]

hornet in silksong is the same hornet from the first game guys

[silk dirge]

if you dont get a job soon im just saying the underworks is calling /j

[scenic stirrup]

Aint no way

[lime nova]

OMG

[lucid smelt]

we need 2 tell mossbag

[lime nova]

Source?

[lucid smelt]

trust me bro

[silk dirge]

loam just died were looking for a replacement for him

very good pay 1 rosary every 45 seconds

[subtle plaza]

i think i figured out how to solve the eye cipher puzzles

[lucid smelt]

https://tenor.com/view/gravity-falls-bill-cipher-gif-9708367234144552590

[silver spire]

funnily enough tahts still above US minimum wage assuming every rosary is a dollar

[silk dirge]

thats wild

[silver spire]

💀 bugs are somehow better at capitalism than the U.S

[lucid smelt]

grand mother silk is a beast but shes not a monster

MPGA 2025

[silk dirge]

wouldnt that be 80 cents an hour

[silver spire]

wait sorry i meant dollar

[silk dirge]

80 dollars an hour is wild tho

very few jobs pay like that

[subtle plaza]

kinda

adnik

[silk dirge]

id assume rosaries are probably closer to maybe like quarters

[rain gate]

Depends on what kind of rosary

[subtle plaza]

i think rosaries are worthless and the citadel is trolling everyone

[silver spire]

were talking about base rosaries

[silk dirge]

wait thatd still be 20 dollars an hour

thats way too generous for the citadel

[rain gate]

Value is what people put to it

[thorny chasm]

|| do we know the whole lore of like life and stuff of hollow knight||

[rain gate]

Rosaries are worth what people think they're worth

[subtle plaza]

i think everything is worthless and everyone is trolling everyone

[silk dirge]

i think 1 rosary is 5 cents is probably the best conversion for it to make sense

[subtle plaza]

i think 1 rosary is 1 rosary

[lunar vapor]

You people forget that the machine stops giving you rosaries after the 34th or something

[silk dirge]

4 dollars an hour sounds right for the citadel

[thorny chasm]

Only for the higher ups

[gaunt elbow]

I completed this game like 3 years ago so I forgot a little bit of the lore, what happened ||in the true ending of HK and why was the knights void in silksong?||

Ik it's gotta do with the ||God of the void|| but I'm confused

[rain gate]

The void sea presumably stretches under every kingdom

[pastel timber]

There’s not really a “true ending” per se, but in dream no more (radiance ending) the knight’s shade returns to the abyss along with all the siblings, and assumedly the shade lord does the same in p5 ending, and it can probably swim in void or something so it will have just travelled to pharloom’s abyss underground

[gaunt elbow]

Ohhh

[scenic stirrup]

Oh dude i just noticed greyroots eyes its the exact same as the white lady's

[gaunt elbow]

I also remembered it as them leaving the abyss guess I was wrong

[subtle plaza]

fuck greyroot

i am going to kill him.

[pastel timber]

I really wanna know if there’s any connection there, I think the vessels are described as “born of wyrm and root” so the names are similar too

[bronze wolf]

||He unalives himself||

[subtle plaza]

i wanted to kill him tho

[scenic stirrup]

Greyroot is a dude?

[gaunt elbow]

Is nyleth important or is she just the equivalent of pharlooms Unn

[pastel timber]

I think greyroot is a thing

[scenic stirrup]

Doesn't that also make white lady a thing too

[pastel timber]

She’s not really treated as a higher being, it feels more like the whole of shellwood is her descendants? It’s strange, but forming shellwood and striking some deal with the citadel is as much as we get in game

[rain gate]

"Lady"

[terse warren]

It feels more like Shellwood is an extension of Nyleth itself ngl

[gaunt elbow]

It's so weird cause we get a good amount of lore for karmelita and khann, it feels like nyleth doesn't really fit with the two

[pastel timber]

We don’t even know if they’re the same species but the white lady clearly doesn’t reproduce the same way as greyroot unless the pale king had a lot of mpreg going on

[terse warren]

We don't really get shit for Khaan lol

[edgy barn]

Greyroot doesn't really reproduce, it's more like reincarnation.

[pastel timber]

She is described as “the first seed” or something it could’ve all grown from her you might be right

[scenic stirrup]

I believe in the pale king mpreg theory ✍️

[edgy barn]

Also did you see the size of the eggs in the abyss? PM was NOT the one laying those.

[gaunt elbow]

I was kinda assuming he just fought back against the citadel and then they verdania'd his kingdom, but yeah you're right there's nothing solid

[terse warren]

Also "Without us... Is there even life?" - Nyleth

And the fact that you get her heart from a vine sprouting from the ground

[terse warren]

Most likely just a result of pollution again atp ngl

[subtle plaza]

same tbh

[terse warren]

They didn't exactly do shit to Verdania on purpose

[edgy barn]

We do get a dialogue about him ruling half of Pharloom in his prime

[pastel timber]

We do?

[subtle plaza]

nyleth sort of feels like a shoe in, she gets introduced more abruptly than the other 2

[terse warren]

Like, billionaires don't cause global warming because they hate the environment, they do it because money

[pastel timber]

They’re not actively malicious they just don’t care kinda thing

[terse warren]

And even then, the citadel tried to maintain some of those places that they themselves devasted alive, with the trying to keep the big corals alive through breeding an all

[gaunt elbow]

The decimated verdania it does not look like normal global warming/pollution/whatever

[rain gate]

^

[subtle plaza]

and bilewater too

[edgy barn]

Snails Shamans Hint dialogue

For the Pollen Heart:
M: In the heights of the great wood, nestled deep in its roots, vines and branches, find the one who sowed the first seed.
S: They're the very essence of the place, the nub of it all. Ain't really a bug, to be told, but a powerful presence nonetheless.
M: We'd heard the Citadel once made grudging accord with that creature, sent their servants in reverence, even built a shrine up there somewhere. Maybe it's worth you searching for it?

For the Hunter's Heart:
M: Through their march, at the far border of these lowlands, seek the last queen of the ant hunters. We can sense her still... just.
B: In youth, her voice united the wild tribes. Gave them the strength to resist the pale monarch's will... longer than most at least.

For the Encrusted Heart:
M:Up top of those caves lost to wind and sand rests a crusted old ruler, a once great warrior king.
M: In their prime, they and their order held half of Pharloom under hardened claw. Some bugs relished that strength. Most lived in fear of it.

If carrying the Conjoined Heart

M: What's this? That's an unexpected heart you're holding, Old One...
M: We can guess to its source, though we'd believed it long gone from these lands.
Hornet: The heart of a graceful lord. In its taking I was able to witness his caves and kingdom as once they flourished.
Hornet: A stunning sight. Unique. All gone... Lost to the pale monarch... and the system to keep her caged.

[pastel timber]

Ohhhh, I missed the hint dialogue for khaan and karmelita that’s really cool

[maiden meteor]

So Nyleth shrine was built by Citadel

[edgy barn]

"Lost to the pale monarch and the system to keep her caged" pick one Hornet don't give me that bs.

[maiden meteor]

I think a lot of NPCs equate GMS and Citadel system

[edgy barn]

They do

[obsidian quail]

we have no idea about what stuff was like during the GMS era, it is completely blank

[edgy barn]

I don't like it

[gaunt elbow]

It's so confusing, it doesn't seem like GMS would create the currency system or the pilgrim religion, so why would it exist, who are making the decisions

[pastel timber]

“The weavers and the citadel perpetuated the destruction of pharlooms habitats that began with grand mother silk’s reign” sounds reasonably believable

[obsidian quail]

idk why they decided to show no trace of GMS pharloom era since it’s the most important era

[maiden meteor]

Citadel was created to keep GMS caged and thus exists because of her

at least I think that’s why everyone sees Citadel as extension of GMS’ influence

[pastel timber]

My pet theory atm is that the weavers manufactured the religion to keep a steady supply of pilgrims perpetuating the song that keeps gms asleep

[obsidian quail]

that’s what the weavers did

[pastel timber]

The currency system probably arose naturally since they’re using prayer beads

[edgy barn]

In second thought yeah you are right but the game really likes to equate GMS to the citadel regardless

[obsidian quail]

no need to theorize since they actually did do that

[terse warren]

Atp I just assume it's always the citadel's fault

[obsidian quail]

i don’t necessarily attribute the capitalist hellscape to the Weavers but the pilgrimage was all them

[pastel timber]

It’s really hard to separate them, gms is the monarch of the citadel, even the conductors know it’s under her control at the end of the day, but there’s a continuous ongoing coup against her throughout its history. It only exists because of her whether she made it herself or not

[obsidian quail]

i also have a hard time believing GMS was just sitting in the middle of nowhere

they had to have seen or known of GMS presence before she went to sleep

[feral inlet]

I thought citadel was a cage for gms?

[gaunt elbow]

That sounds pretty interesting, I was hoping the weavers wouldnt have acted like that, I was imagining more sophisticated apecies

[maiden meteor]

I think it wouldn’t be beyond weavers to make Citadel as tough as possible so only the purest of faith can ascend atop and sing GMS’ chains

[obsidian quail]

i can’t imagine GMS had nothing to do with taking over the place

whatever her era looked like

[obsidian quail]

it’s not really a theory that is what the weavers did

that was the plan

[gaunt elbow]

How do we know that

[pastel timber]

They were sophisticated, but they had pale influences, part of them likely yearned for domination like hornet does, we know they certainly yearned for freedom from gms and lulling her to sleep was their way of doing that, before passing the burden onto the bugs of the citadel so they could lie in wait for someone to save them for real

[feral inlet]

Real question is we know citadel kinda bounds gms, but how so?

[rain gate]

The song makes her sleep

[maiden meteor]

Some weaver spell

[pastel timber]

It’s a big music box, look at the cogwork core, it’s a musical machine designed to play a lullaby that keeps her sleeping

[feral inlet]

So what’s the point of all those pilgrims getting to citadel? Are they part of the process

[feral inlet]

Ahhh Tyty

[obsidian quail]

the pilgrims join the choir or whatever to sing the music

[pastel timber]

They’re the fresh bodies that are inducted into it and maintain/sustain the song

[maiden meteor]

Pilgrims’ faith also fuels the song

[feral inlet]

Ahh ok I get it now Tyty, it’s like a giant web to create more singers for the song to keep gms locked

[maiden meteor]

“we prayed a cage” as pontiff puts it

[pastel timber]

The citadel is a huge factory that turns faith and devotion into music that keeps their god asleep forever

[flint wadi]

yeah, my theory is that since pharlooms only waterway is salt lakes the citadels structure blocked off the deltas to karak and caused it to dry up and become a desert

[obsidian quail]

it’s a perpetual song machine and pilgrims are song fodder

so weavers set up a religion to get them to do it

[flint wadi]

and salt lake water goes far, up to shellwood at least

[feral inlet]

That makes sense, and then they poisoned it and it caused the bad rain in greymoor and what bilewater is?

[obsidian quail]

they also would lull bugs from the surface

like sirens

[pastel timber]

This is definitely the impression I got, hell I was expecting the wet coral area to be to the right of bilewater before I realised it was cut, but with sands and blasted steps on the left, and bilewater/ducts/pale lake on the right it 100% seems as if the east -> west water flow was cut off by the citadel

[flint wadi]

yeah, though the rain in greymoor is probably just due to its location

[pastel timber]

I’m pretty sure the “rain” in greymoor is all the silk runoff falling from the city, that’s why all the enemies there are waving silk catchers in the air

[flint wadi]

theres water too

[edgy barn]

Those are two different things

The water is not liquid silk

[flint wadi]

yeah the silk falls down a lot gently

[pastel timber]

I’m saying it’s solid silk, the only thing above greymoor is the cauldron no?

[flint wadi]

im not sure if tis portrayed in the game

[gaunt elbow]

Can't wait for that mossbag lore video so I can finally get a better grip on this

[edgy barn]

There's water too.

[rain gate]

I think the water runs from bilewater through the putrefied ducts and a bit of sinners road too and goes to greymoor making craw lake

[feral inlet]

That’s what I was thinking too^

But Ofc it’s more upper right of greymoor compared to directly above like lake in city of tears

[flint wadi]

small crevices and canals are a thing

[feral inlet]

Definitely

[flint wadi]

thats why the rain goes as far as bellhart entrance

[feral inlet]

Didn’t realize that

I’ll go check bell heart later with my glasses on

Also those spike shooting enemies in steppe and karak, are they the things that killed off the tribes there?

[edgy barn]

No

[pastel timber]

Citadel killed the tribes there supposedly

[flint wadi]

pretty sure thats just the remains of karaks fauna

[pastel timber]

Mhm

[naive lake]

citadel is omega racist so they killed everyone that lived there previously

[rain gate]

No, they probably domesticated them to an extent considering the conchflies appear in coral tower

[pastel timber]

Khaan has so much control over the coral itself it’s not crazy to think he had some level of control over the creatures either

[feral inlet]

Mhm, tyty

[flint wadi]

yeah, not to mention the tribe consisting entirely of warriors, they were the apex predators

[floral lodge]

Hornet got captured by some clankers,she fell like Kirby, released herself but lost her 500millions power in Rise of Kingdom,she is Somewhere else,she move and fight some clankers boss

[pastel timber]

The pale king got his ass whooped by deepnest and the mantis tribe but gms eviscerated everyone in pharloom without a second thought

[obsidian quail]

how is citadel racist again

[floral lodge]

It's hk ?

[flint wadi]

verdania

[floral lodge]

Donald duck

[pastel timber]

They killed all the indigenous people </3

[rain gate]

Coral tribe

[obsidian quail]

ahh flashbang

i’m stunned

[flint wadi]

MULTIPLE DISCRIMINATORY JUMPSCARES ‼️

[feral inlet]

To be fair we in a game with multiple bug tribes, seems like normal stuff for them

[obsidian quail]

does that make them racist though or imperialist

i don’t think it was racially motivated

[flint wadi]

its imperialism

[pastel timber]

considering the memorium theyre probably not actually racist

[feral inlet]

It just makes them bugs who might fight each other

[pastel timber]

then again we dont know about gms, only the citadel bugs

[flint wadi]

theyve done shit exclusively for conquest

[maiden meteor]

never ask Hornet what she writes down in her diary

[pastel timber]

hornet is racist against the slab flies

[edgy barn]

Is there anything we know gms did for sure other than making the weavers?

[flint wadi]

citadel sorta-technically represents gms' influence, thats why theyre used interchangebly even if technically are two different things

[maiden meteor]

presumably making weavers serve her eternally or smth

[naive lake]

citadel is racist specificaly against verdania, didnt even put them on memorium

[pastel timber]

technically no? she straight up couldve just ascended the weavers then got rebelled against the next day we have nothing to draw a clear line between her reign and the weavers' reign

[flint wadi]

three hearts + verdania imply she was excerting her influence onto the world

[obsidian quail]

the problem is we have no idea what GMS era looked like when she came to pharloom and was with the Weavers

[pastel timber]

anything claiming to be a timeline of pharloom is gonna have to list gms/weavers reign as fuzzy we dont know which is which

[obsidian quail]

so it’s hard to know what was her and wasn’t

[rain gate]

They did, it's just the exhibit broke

[pastel timber]

i was talking about the pharloom timeline the other day and i got two ideas of what mightve happened lemme grab them tell me what you all think

[flint wadi]

it is there though lol, they just fucked up at preserving it

its flora is still there though at least

[pastel timber]

timeline 1:

• weavers uplifted
• citadel civilisation begins
• first sinner discovers the truth
• gms orders the other weavers to imprison her
• breeds dissent
• rebellion
• the citadel, which was already being created, is altered to become the music box that keeps her asleep
• weavers create a religion with themselves as the deities to ensure the bugs of the citadel continue the lullaby eternally
• weavers pass the burden to the conductors and die, lying in wait for someone to save them

timeline 2:

• weavers uplifted
• citadel civilisation begins
• weavers rebel against gms's control
• lull her to sleep
• truly believe they are the gods of pharloom, and create a religion stating as such
• build up the citadel with the intent of having it sing a lullaby to keep her asleep
• first sinner discovers the truth
• weavers themselves imprison her as it goes against their divine narrative and egos
• weavers realise their rule cannot last, pass on the burden, and die so they may lie in wait for someone to save them

[edgy barn]

The citadel and pale monarch/being/light are used interchangably so we can't know if those storylines are actually talking about momma silk.

[naive lake]

damn fr? I thought it was mosshome still because i just read "beyond forgotten" or smth in the memorium wall and thought "oh okay they didnt even bother including bros"

[edgy barn]

Man I hate this plot point

[flint wadi]

check rightmost side of memorium

[pastel timber]

theres the clovers, red tipped thorns, lilypad with a dead verdania bird on it, verdania is there just all the bugs are dead, plants only now

[flint wadi]

theres still clovers and thorn spikes

[naive lake]

sorgy chat 💔 I will look harder when i play next

[pastel timber]

its very unlikely that any other pale being lay claim to pharloom before gms, otherwise the shamans wouldve mentioned it during their whole "there were powers here before her" speech

[sinful nimbus]

Hollow Knight doesn't really have races more-so than species but their slavery of entire species is pretty analogous

[flint wadi]

yeah but SS really wants to nail down the point that pharloom was grandmas kingdom, so even things that didnt happen in her wake were in some way manner or form influenced by her

[obsidian quail]

it’s not unbelievable for the GMS era to have similar iconography to the Citadel since the Weavers played the instrument that is the symbol of the citadel for her, so we know music was still a big part of GMS era too

[pastel timber]

the different species being assigned to different roles, castes, and classes at birth is certainly something also

[pastel timber]

thats why im partial to the first timeline, gms wouldve allowed them to build a music box, and in secret they planned it to trap her into a deep sleep

[rain gate]

Cough cough the slab

[edgy barn]

I didn't mean any other pale beings. I meant that we have no way of knowing if, say, Khann's line about "standing against the pale light" is actually talking about GMS or if it is about the citadel

[pastel timber]

the real question is why would the citadels core religion be based around standing in front of gms to be judged when we know the rulers of the citadel have tried to undermine her rule throughout its history, surely they wouldve altered that part of the religion

[pastel timber]

oh true, thats part of the split between gms and the weavers reigns being unclear where one starts and the other begins, from khanns perspective it makes no difference though

[dapper willow]

Yeah that is a bit confusing
Though I don't think they actually let people go up there

[pastel timber]

lace very much seems to be acting on her own so her killing people up there certainly isnt part of whatever plan, maybe theyre just supposed to pray in the flower field as a symbolic act, feeling the presence of their god that they must sing the song for

but then why the terminus station? much higher in the cradle right at gms's cocoon

[dapper willow]

I never got the impression that lace followed any social order aside from her own whims and sometimes gradma's will

[pastel timber]

yeah lace is just passing time by being insane

[dapper willow]

I guess being in the citadel while everyone else is dead is not a very eventful time

We needed more lace encounters

[pastel timber]

shes such a good character its a shame we dont see more of her

[dapper willow]

Mhm
This should be a top priority for team cherry tbh
Its easy to add and we all want it, so it could happen in future dlc

you can already encounter her at a lot of different places, it could easily be reused for more interactions

[pastel timber]

they couldve had a deep memory segment with her body in the cradle but you only get the memory song in act 3 </3

[dapper willow]

Its interesting that a lot of people will not know about this because they beat her up at deep docks
I didn't even know this until a few days ago
That lace shows up at the broken bridge, sinners road and some other places if you don't beat her in deep docks

[edgy barn]

See, THAT is the point I hate. GMS did not do anything, she did not build anything, she spent most of history sleep in a cacoon while the weavers and conductors did all the stuff that we see the consequences of through the game, until she got awake enough to made her daughters and start the haunting. Atleast to me, the ideal of GMS as this innevitable true god monarch all allong that is responsible for everything does not feel earned in the slightest. She is esentially the Radiance again, but the Radiance worked because she was less of a characterized villain and more of a natural disaster/calamity, or in other words: It wasn't actually about the big bright moth. But in silksong it IS actually about the big bright silk woman thing, that's the whole point, it was her all along, but it does not feel earned, atleast to me.

[pastel timber]

i have seen that its really cool, some nice continuity

[flint wadi]

could be solved by characterizing her beyond what she does with the haunting and feels about lace/weavers, but oh well

[rain gate]

She has more of a puppetmaster vibe to me than, one who has that whole "controlling everything from behind the scenes" thing going

[pastel timber]

i mean we dont actually know that she didnt do anything, if anything her erasure from pharlooms history is entirely on purpose, manufactured by the weavers and conductors to hide the "true monarch", but youre right shes less like a natural disaster, shes not the inevitable dawn, shes more of a shadow monarch, literally puppeteering things from the shadows

[edgy nebula]

was gurr haunted

[dapper willow]

At least she talks to hornet in the silk heart cutscenes unlike radiance to the knight
She could have talked more... that might have made it better tbh
To differentiate her from rad more

[pastel timber]

yeah having her be a mindless beast that goes straight into attack mode was definitely an interesting choice, youre told thats whats gonna happen from the beginning with the poem but she had so much potential that got wasted

all we got from her in the end was her maternal love for lace

[terse warren]

90% sure no

[terse warren]

What's the poem like I frogor

[pastel timber]

praying for "old pharloom" dlc that memory realms you to the time of gms' arrival so we get prime lore

[obsidian quail]

yeah it’s fun to talk about lore or whatever but i think a lot of this back and forth comes down to the story just not being as good as HK and we’re expecting too much

[dapper willow]

something something "your beast nature... " idk
I forgot

[obsidian quail]

sometimes i think we’re thinking about it more than they did

[terse warren]

Oh 100%

[pastel timber]

its not that its not as good, theres plenty to it, its just more focused on the present given that pharloom is still half-alive, whereas hollow knight was all about piecing together the past

[rain gate]

I THOUGHT THAT WAS ABOUT HORNET

[obsidian quail]

i just find the HK story much cleaner and neater personally, the main conflict and characters involved are properly outlined

[dapper willow]

I think team cherry has a much different perspective on the lore because they know it more concretely and they have been working with it for like seven years

Maybe some things were lost in translation, made too vague, or forgotten

[whole holly]

it is kind of disappointing we only get one new higher being in Pharloom, compared to hallownest that is not impressive, although godseeker stated that Hallownest is unique with number of gods as i remember

[rain gate]

In retrospect that seems stupid

[terse warren]

It is

Wrong reply 😭

[terse warren]

It is

[pastel timber]

yeah team cherry are the biggest hollow knight fans there are, they care deeply about the story, but when you sit on the lore bible for 8 years what seems obvious to you can be completely unknown to us, but they also like leaving things up to interpretation!

[rain gate]

Difference between "god" and "higher being" though

[dapper willow]

Seems like its partially about pharloom as a whole and about g ms as well

[rain gate]

Gruz mother is not a higher being and yet she is in the hall of gods

[whole holly]

it is, you could be replying to two different sentences in my comment is it disappointing or hallownest unique?

[rain gate]

Hallownest is unique

[whole holly]

that is actually really interesting

[terse warren]

Hallownest

[pastel timber]

you do see the theme of "burning the memories of pharlooms past", and everyone here (me included) seems very hung up on the timeline of pharlooms past, it could very well be that they didnt want the past to play as much of a part in the story as in hallownest, after we save pharloom its a whole new future, the story starts again

[dapper willow]

dlc might reveal more of them but who knows
I don't think its likely to be real

[cobalt coyote]

what do you mean? gruz mother is for sure one of the higher beings

[whole holly]

i know but still it could still have more than one Higher Being, it doesn't have to be just one

[rain gate]

Well there's the argument for fayforn being a higher being but I don't want to start that again

[pastel timber]

depends how you feel about lifeblood

[whole holly]

yeah, unless Plasmium Lore expands, or Nightmare DLC comes not very likely

[whole holly]

does Abyss Creature actually appear in Pharloom, i don't think so, and it is not even confirmed to be Higher Being

[terse warren]

I prefer how it's only one and even then it's barely active.

It makes this a story of people rather than a story of gods like Hallownest was

[rain gate]

Real question: is void a higher being or something else
(I am purposefully starting an argument :)

[flint wadi]

i dont think godmaster/grimm are happening

there 0 instances of essence in the entire game

[dapper willow]

no nightmare dlc
There is potential for something entirely new which I am more a fan of

[terse warren]

Lord of Shades is but they're native to Hallownest

[flint wadi]

^

[pastel timber]

grimm is definitely not happening pharloom isnt dying we saved it <3

[flint wadi]

thats also true

[rain gate]

Nah trobbio saved it with his performance

[pastel timber]

all hail god king trobbio ruler of new pharloom

[terse warren]

We 100% are getting boss rush

[edgy nebula]

he raised 50 million dollars for pharloom when hornet defeated him

[terse warren]

Nightmare King Trobbio

[edgy nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-silksong-hornet-trobbio-dramatic-death-gif-4926813514533061211

[flint wadi]

truly

[rain gate]

The question is how 🤔

[edgy nebula]

what an amazing performance

[dapper willow]

that is actually something I liked a lot about ss
The focus on the regular people of the land, and their strenght, ther aspirations

[flint wadi]

yeah, but will it be godmaster? we'll see

[whole holly]

i meant unn is higher being but Greenpath story doesn't solely revolve around her, with GMS, it is kind of like having only off brand radiance influencing kingdom which makes it somewhat boring

[pastel timber]

this being said i love the idea of a godseeker relic like a weathered mask washing up in the abyss and we use the memory song on it to access a void drenched version of godhome, they will 100% drop a boss rush mode of some kind eventually surely right..,.

[rain gate]

I doubt it'll be the actual godseekers as most of pharlooms "gods" are artifical

[terse warren]

I hope not but TC seems to like fan service

[whole holly]

Essence can be introduced later just like Hidden Dreams introduced it

[rain gate]

That would mean locking boss rush behind act 3

[terse warren]

Greenpath barely has story

[flint wadi]

they could go about it a million ways but it would be funny to have trobbio "recreate" setpieces and sorta roleplay the bosses in a play (you fight them as they are in the game)

[edgy nebula]

not including my goat crust king khann of course

[edgy barn]

...See, I could start an argument based on my small rant from before but tbh I would rather focus on the parts of the lore and story I actually liked.

[flint wadi]

act 3 really hurt you guys didnt it

[terse warren]

Yeah

[pastel timber]

the weight of the citadel comes from its industry rather than from its god, hallownest was built around a beacon, the citadel was a marvel of technology invented by common bugs, gms has less relevance than PK at the end of the day

[whole holly]

i liked Green Tablets, history between White Lady and Unn, Moss Prophet, although that is in Queen's Gardens

[pastel timber]

act 1 and 2 were them proving they could make a banger game without hollow knight fanservice and then act 3 was them indulging themselves

[dapper willow]

I think I said this before too
OR was it someone else
It is a fun idea which I heavily approve of

[flint wadi]

i think ti was fine but i agree lets put godmaster aside

[dapper willow]

there was enough negativity
There are a ton of positives we can talk about too

[flint wadi]

absolutely, but it seems they wanted less fanservice and moreso a way to tie the two games together

[rain gate]

I've thought of this before
Hallownest is a kingdom of stone and soul and dreams made real
Pharloom is a kingdom of silk and song, yes, but also steel and bone

[obsidian quail]

GMS is S tier design but mid character

basically a plot device

[pastel timber]

i would like to hop off this to shout out remember guys the lore is obscure and deliberately left open to headcanons and we're just sharing our ideas its all fun at the end of the day <3

[pastel timber]

potential woman </3

[pastel timber]

honestly i like the way they did it, its just enough to remind you its the same universe, with a few hype moment callbacks to really put a cherry on top

[whole holly]

i guess industry and generally citadel after GMS was initiated by Weavers and they were worshipped by Common bugs, but Haunting influenced them to fall under GMS control, apart from industrialization story does still revolve around Weaver's Creation and Haunting

[edgy nebula]

skynx was discussed last night but skynx is still lowkey so cool and mysterious

[flint wadi]

tf is skynx

[pastel timber]

is skynx the steel soul styx

[craggy smelt]

yes

[dapper willow]

"Cherry on top"
Nice

[edgy nebula]

yeppers

[flat wolf]

is there a canon ending in silksong and by extension hk?

[pastel timber]

unintentional pun but i'll take it

[edgy nebula]

this is skynx

[bronze turret]

I would say yes.

[flint wadi]

theyre all cocurrent conclusions

dnm/etv are "canon" to silksong in that it can only branch off from them

[dapper willow]

so creepy

[flat wolf]

bruh where is this guy i never encountered it lol

[edgy nebula]

he speaks in dialogue that isnt his and sounds very weird, when you give him silkeaters he spits rosaries from somewhere

[edgy nebula]

steel soul only

[flat hearth]

He's quite the opportunist

[bronze turret]

He's exclusive to Steel Soul mode

[rain gate]

Probably a noskesque thing

[pastel timber]

you can argue that silksong must follow p5 due to the existence of the shade lord, you can also argue it follows dream no more, but people like to think of it as silksong exploring the timeline following one ending, and every ending is canon
(but colloquially there are "true endings", that being DNM and SotV)

[honest sphinx]

is it true that ss ending confirms that the knight has emotions?

[flat wolf]

makes sense i didnt do it yet

[flat wolf]

ig he does cuz he protects her

[flat hearth]

Styx & Skynx are bugs that steal the masks of other bugs and imitate them

[flat wolf]

if he didnt he would let her sister die

[dapper willow]

pretty sure it was already confirmed in the original

[pastel timber]

it definitely confirms the knight was never hollow, giving us more proof that the pale king was wrong

[honest sphinx]

yeah but why is he still the vessel

[flat wolf]

nosk ahh ripoff

[bronze turret]

I spoiled myself on the stuff that's exclusive to Steel Soul because I knew I would not have the patience or skills to try 😂

[honest sphinx]

about what

[whole holly]

guys, what do you think DLC will be like?

[pastel timber]

about being able to make a truly hollow knight

[flat wolf]

wym still vessel he was reborn into the god of shades

[flint wadi]

said to be ambitious

thats all we have for now

[honest sphinx]

woah my dumbass thought its the opposite

[pastel timber]

awesome

[flat wolf]

pale king gotta pay 10000 milion geo of child support rn

[whole holly]

wait where, can you give source?

[bronze turret]

I thought that was pretty telling in the first game. It's part of one of the core messages of the plot.

[flat wolf]

if it was like that the pale king would have needed 1 child lol

[whole holly]

i hope even better than game itself

[flat wolf]

instead of pumping thousands

[pastel timber]

the plot of the first game revolves around the fact that everyone thought the vessels had no emotions, but they actually did have a tiny shred of them

[flint wadi]

tc interview before the release of the game

[pastel timber]

insanely high bar

[dapper willow]

I have SO MANY IDEAS
Lifeblood expansion
Barnacle bay
Touching up on areas like whisp ticket, hunters march, wormways, ducts, maybe even mout fay
Boss rush boss rush!!
Eternal ordeal for every area

[honest sphinx]

so in order to be a vessel u need to have emotions?

[flint wadi]

like their most recent one you should find it easily

[terse warren]

Imo it's more so about how the bugs of the citadel perceive gms vs how she actually is

The first line talking about how the bugs see GMS's Silk as a blessing, integral in their life and ever so important to them

The second one about how seemingly peacefully GMS is sleeping, and the bugs think that is due to their faith (rosaries are important for a reason) and their toil (all the work in the underworks)

The third line about how they take her gifts for granted, and about how she is essentially imprisoned (bound) in the citadel, forced to sleep (slumber) and to give her Silk (servitude) to the bugs

The fourth and fifth line seem to go together, talking about how once GMS finally awakens, all the bugs Will be able to clearly see she's not the benevolent God that blesses them with her Silk, but a very angry God eager to take revenge on everyone who wronged her

[flat wolf]

but ngl u know what this game misses

[whole holly]

lore and storywise i mean, lot easier to achieve than you think

[flat wolf]

zote

[flat hearth]

Bro we need zote so bad

[pastel timber]

you dont become a vessel, the vessels are the void-hollowed corpses of the children of the pale king and the white lady, the intention was for them to have no emotions, they just did anyway

[bronze turret]

It's more nuanced than that. No living sentient being can be fully emptied with Void. That was an assumption birthed of desperation to find a solution

[rain gate]

Greyroot expansion, city of steel

[flat wolf]

fr fr hes my guru i follow all of his 57 precepts

[flat hearth]

I think the DLC will definitely expand on the lore quite a bit. We honestly didn't get that much in the main game, it was mostly about Hornets character arc

[pastel timber]

"we were making a city of steel dlc but it got too big so we're making it its own game"

[dapper willow]

The gameplay is definitely stronger than the story in ss it seems

[honest sphinx]

so why did all of the previous childs failed but our knight didnt?

[terse warren]

While I would like for a tiny bit more Wisp Thicket, the fact that it isn't fully its own area makes it more bearable to me that it's very small, considering also that 90% of it is gone due to Greymoor

[edgy nebula]

a steel assassin sharpe game would be cool as shit

[wet whale]

Yes, but we can already see him in the pantheon when he fights Nosk a second time, we see Hornet instead of himself, which implies that he has some sort of affection for her, if i recall

[flat wolf]

our knight didnt cuz we chose another path instead of imprisoning the radiance we just kill her outright

[pastel timber]

our knight is said to be special due to the extra void it got by wandering in the wilds beyond hallownest for a while, maybe it grew in strength while it was out there, but all the other vessels were struck down before they could achieve what we did

[whole holly]

yeah, i would have to agree strongly, i do however want FoTF, Plasmium and general lore to be expanded

[terse warren]

Thanks, appreciate it

[bronze turret]

To add to it, not only emotions, but anything that could comprise a living being susceptible to temptation, hence the famous "No mind to think, no will to break, no voice to cry suffering" quote.

[honest sphinx]

and is our knight a god of some sorr

[flat hearth]

Me too, also we barely learned anything about GMS, or the Masters or anything like that

[pastel timber]

its the child of two pale beings its basically a god, and it certainly becomes one in the p5 ending

[terse warren]

We do see throughout the game that the Conductors, while still doing their job, aren't the most keen on how the Citadel does its whole thing... At least, both Ballador and Romino seem to not be fully in agreement

[honest sphinx]

so cuz they showed emotions pk killed them?

[dapper willow]

what did grayroot do to the fire dudes 😭

[whole holly]

i would honestly prefer for next game to revolve around Grimmchild, who becomes Knight or Hornet sized

[honest sphinx]

arent the other ones children of two pale beings

[terse warren]

Knight becomes a god in DnM and EtV

[flat wolf]

so the wilds beyond contain void aswell? how it said i can only be formed by regret so basically bugs on the influence on other higher beings giving them inteliggence

[honest sphinx]

crazy

[terse warren]

No

[pastel timber]

yeah but the other ones all died

[flat wolf]

all babies died and were reborn in the pit

[dapper willow]

yeah
Its very nice

[honest sphinx]

what ab the hk? he loved pk

[flat wolf]

then they died a second time

[terse warren]

All the Vessels were born in the Abyss, and only the one that made it out was deemed Pure and thus trained

[pastel timber]

the "extra void" is the loss of mind and memories you get for straying too far from the pale kings divine beacon, hornet says "yours is an emptiness born of two voids"

[rain gate]

I thought they were born, then thrown in the abyss

[pastel timber]

their eggs are in the abyss

[honest sphinx]

yo ultrakill

[flat wolf]

yes but when he gets void heart he no longer

[honest sphinx]

btw do we see hornet talk in ss

[terse warren]

Nope, born in the abyss

[pastel timber]

what

[whole holly]

guys what is definition of Higher Being or God? how do we define them?

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[pastel timber]

yes she talks to everyone all of the time

[flat hearth]

Did the White Lady used to be down there or something?

[pastel timber]

right now we're going off of other characters naming them as such in game

[dapper willow]

did you not play the game
What are you doing in the spoiler channels O-O

[honest sphinx]

bro ngl tho but i think with the dlcs ss is gonna be PERFECT

[pastel timber]

no they threw the eggs into the abyss

[terse warren]

They probably just threw the eggs down

[flat hearth]

Ohhhh right

[rain gate]

Damn there goes my "zote is an escaped pre-void vessel" theory

[flat hearth]

To infuse them with void

[bronze turret]

From what I gathered, PK and WL planted their eggs in there, so that they would be infused with Void in hopes that their brood would be born emptied by it. Those who failed to ascend to the top failed the first step of the selection. The second was showing signs of non-emptiness.

[whole holly]

okay, but do they have enough common characteristics to be grouped as cetrain beings capable of certain scale of power?

[dapper willow]

The dlc really needs to turn up the difficulty
Its time for team cherry to take the gloves off

[terse warren]

I don't think SS can be perfect anymore but the rating is definitely gonna go up the moment Godmaster is added

[honest sphinx]

mmm i see

[flat hearth]

Double Savage Beastfly no floor incoming

[honest sphinx]

we dont kno ab the dlcs

[rain gate]

Fourth chorus using more arms

[whole holly]

i wonder what would happen if they let one hatch outside Void, what would child look like?

[rain gate]

Zote probably

[pastel timber]

not particularly no
radiance and PK are both described as great lights
god knows what the white lady is
unn is a big slug who dreamed greenpath into existence
the nightmare heart is something that feeds on dying kingdoms
gms has control over silk, a physical manifestation of soul

[pastel timber]

itd look the same it just wouldnt be dead inside

[dapper willow]

Yet another game falls short of perfection
It is as inevitable as it is sad

[honest sphinx]

so guys the only reason pk didnt choose the knight bc the hk was already chosen?

[spare pendant]

ZOTE IS BORN OF WYRM AND ROOT CONFIRMED

[bronze turret]

I wager the appearance wouldn't change much from what we've seen from the others

[terse warren]

If TC doesn't add a boss refight or boss rush mode I'm afraid the game is getting stuck at an 8/10 at best unless they pull of some crazy shit in other DLCs

[pastel timber]

ss-lore
look inside
hk lore

[flat hearth]

Kinda fucked up when you put it like that lol

[whole holly]

i would like to believe it would inherit white lady's eyes, or atleast partly and have more control over soul

[rain gate]

All enemies instakill

[honest sphinx]

well they add a whole bunch of dlcs for hk and im sure they'll do the same for ss

[pastel timber]

yeah throwing tens of thousands of your unborn children into a huge abyss to be hollowed out by the primordial manifestation of entropy is pretty fucked up

[spare pendant]

not entropy

[flat hearth]

Zote is the child of gods, he's just a dick head 😂

[terse warren]

Yeah the question is about how good those will be

[dapper willow]

3
There are currently 2 enemies that deal 3 damage
In dlc there should be more
The stuff in ss allows you to be so op, its only fair

[edgy nebula]

zote nepobaby theory

[spare pendant]

if i hear one more person misuse the word entropy in a fictional context i am going to kidnap a physicist

[flat wolf]

entropy moment

[honest sphinx]

well pure game comparison isnt ss better than hk? w out dlcs

[terse warren]

SS is better than release HK yeah

[flat wolf]

agree

[dapper willow]

Every stupidly overpowered anime character ever

[honest sphinx]

yeah so i think so are the dlcs gonna be

[terse warren]

But HK rn is quite a bit ahead than SS