sk-lore

[zinc pivot]

I wish the other choruses in underworks rise up

[teal drift]

makes most epic boss in the whole game
earlygame fight

[obsidian quail]

i remember my friend telling me SS didn’t stick out compared to HK and it’s because it’s plain in the sense of palette

[teal drift]

I think my #1 regret with skong is that progression is more scripted. I wish there were more sequence breaks, especially between acts.

[solid badge]

What were the Choruses anyways? Judging by their size, were they construction automatons doubling as religious symbols?

[twilit current]

My area tier list

[zinc pivot]

No pink area, i kinda get it

[lethal burrow]

Was your friend british

[obsidian quail]

american

[zinc pivot]

Made to hunt down citadels enemies (pinstresses)

[pure belfry]

I love all your top 3 but there's a good amount of your list I disagree with

[naive crag]

no one talks about high halls and its the best area ❤️

[solid badge]

WHAT. This is entirely new to me and hit from left-field.

[teal drift]

Tbf after the top 6 it blends together for me.

[twilit current]

High halls has such gentle music and I love it

[fair thistle]

so like

[lethal burrow]

well not MADE to, that's just something they were used for at one point at least

[fair thistle]

that ending????

||the knight coming back?????||

[lethal burrow]

yuh

[fair thistle]

what the hell?????

[teal drift]

I know my top 6 areas, and I know I hate the Ducts and Weavenest Atla

[solid badge]

Best part of High Halls is Second... wow, I forget the automaton knight's name.

[teal drift]

Weavenest Atla had so much promise but its just so much mid carried by Eva hype.

[pure belfry]

in hindsight I actually do like High Halls and its arena but idk about best area. That's a pretty wild take

[zinc pivot]

Ducts was a real L even for TC

[lethal burrow]

Second sentinel is my favourite npc

[teal drift]

Ducts is literally "we were too cowardly to make Bilewater even bigger"

[fair thistle]

||i FIGURED theyd reference the knight in some capacity but having it just SHOW UP????||

[lethal burrow]

its their take on rain world

[solid badge]

I want it to talk to me. Always dutifully performing its task and running off.

[zinc pivot]

Ngl duct shouldve been our entry to bilewater

[teal drift]

It would be wayyyy funnier if Bilewater was just the largest area in the game and encompassed the ducts.

[naive crag]

itd probably be easier to accept if there was anything to do in there other than the arena

[twilit current]

The flowing water, gentle soundtrack, calm rotating things, it's just such a vibe

[teal drift]

man the duct enemies also just suck so hard. The Primal Aspid of Skong, the double damage worm enemy, the fucking tonguegrabber.

[twilit current]

And I actually like the high halls arena and the music that plays in it

[zinc pivot]

There are 8 primal aspids in skong

[pure belfry]

the one thing I like about Ducts is the tongue enemies. They're actually pretty creative. You can blow them up by making them grab bombs. You can kite flying enemies into them and they'll get eaten, and you can get carried up into hidden places

[umbral prism]

First thought that came to me after the ending is future au with lace as the monarch hornet as royal advisor and second sentinel as knight. and sherma is there. and shakra

[twilit current]

It feels so epic to be fighting the entire choir

[teal drift]

and the ducts has the worst one

choir feels epic but i just hate fighting the clappers at the end

[zinc pivot]

Lava spitting one would like to have a word

[solid badge]

High Halls needs serene music to counter how high the engineering team was. Whaddya mean I need to climb on rotating circles and half the floor will skewer me.

[teal drift]

just not a fun fight to me, and since its at the end of such a long arena its not even that learnable since the runback is like 5 mins of combat

[twilit current]

You do fight one big guy in the middle

And I just spammed all my tools for the final stage lol

[zinc pivot]

Lol crystal hunter slander isnt allowed

[twilit current]

I still hate that enemy more than most of the flying enemies in silksong

[teal drift]

the pattern of 2 at once is vastly different, but imo the last phase encourages cheese and toolspam because theyre just too annoying

crystal hunter is way worse that mfer was inaccessible

[umbral prism]

Ducts is so fucking annoying but i gotta give them credit for copypasting a half life enemy into the game and calling it a day

[teal drift]

I think the knight had less air control than hornet so they stood out more

[twilit current]

And the thing it spawns is gargantuan

[naive crag]

the only flying enemies that annoyed me a lot are the ones in coral tower

[zinc pivot]

Choir clapper gets their name from clapping asses

[twilit current]

I think I hate crystal hunter more than primal aspid lol

[eternal sigil]

very, very interesting

[solid badge]

Hahaha yeah, and it ate mosquitoes. Not quite headcrabs but I'll take it.

[zinc pivot]

Why cant they eat ductsuckers

[teal drift]

also i think HK boss roster is overall more consistent

where's the meme about the 2 types of Skong bosses

[zinc pivot]

Like genuinely gonna be a cool boss, a giant barnak consuming nothing but ductsuckers

[twilit current]

And ducts has like 3 enemies, one of which is fairly trivial once you get it, one of which you can manipulate its movement into those eaters, and one of which is pretty easy to dodge, or if you really want to fight, isn't too bad

[pure belfry]

I think Mount Fay being any lower than S is just blasphemy. I understand it doesn't get a boss until Act 3 but it's quite possibly the best platforming section in the game next to the Cogwork Core ascent to Architect Melody

[twilit current]

I do like mount fay, but not nearly as much as many other areas

[teal drift]

I think the timing element of mount fay made me love it more than anything else

[twilit current]

Maybe it's because it reminded me of celeste and I like celeste more lol

[zinc pivot]

Mount Fay being a real mountain climb is thematically good

[pure belfry]

Celeste is peak yeah

[twilit current]

Celeste getting those quick respawns in each room just feels so good

So not getting them in silksong felt a bit more frustrating

[teal drift]

cogwork core ascent felt more like a level than an area, admittedly the skips are cool.

[twilit current]

But I enjoyed it regardless

[zinc pivot]

Yeah cogwork really feel lackluster despite its importance

Meanwhile choral chambers are just everywhere

[teal drift]

I wish they went full white palace for Cogwork tbh. It was too easy.

[twilit current]

Honestly, now that I've beaten all the silksong bosses, very few of them meet the second type for me

It's really just the two beastflies, broodmother and unraveled, and trust me I hate the latter two

Especially unraveled, that boss was awful

[teal drift]

I think there are a few HK bosses that are just.... not really bosses and just elevated normal enemies, but there's a few SKong bosses that just made me actively irritated

[solid badge]

White Palace WAS similarly 'easy' to a trained player. Path of Pain was the real animal.

[pure belfry]

I think it depends on what you look for in a platforming challenge. Do you want frequent checkpoints in your progress like Celeste, or to be regularly reset and have to master it to succeed? For me both are fantastic at what they set out to do.

[umbral prism]

Broodmother gave me such a visceral disgust i first tried her

[teal drift]

White Palace wasnt like kaizo, but it was wayyy harder and more involved than cogworks imo

[eternal sigil]

they are willing to put up with the most and are also closer to the epicenter of its actions and power

[twilit current]

Yeah, makes sense, funnily enough I actually enjoyed path of pain more than mount fay because it felt more like celeste

[zinc pivot]

Dont forget moss mother

[twilit current]

You insta die to those sawblades and spikes and respawn instantly

[teal drift]

watch out around here you're going to get called a genocide supporter

[twilit current]

Moss mother is the tutorial boss and pretty fun imo

[zinc pivot]

Double Moss mother it is

[teal drift]

i think Moss Mother is a pretty good intro boss

[twilit current]

Well designed as an intense but fun introduction to the game

[pure belfry]

I hope we get an actual PoP level of challenge in an expansion or something. The Cradle section is so disappointing

[zinc pivot]

Or you enjoy void moss mother more?

[twilit current]

I like double moss mother too, didn't expect 2 of the tutorial boss to kick my ass lol

[teal drift]

Double Moss Mother is a waste of time, save that shit for godhome why put that in the actual game.

[solid badge]

I was upset when I found a Broodling there after hatefully... evicting the former tenant. It never ends!

[umbral prism]

I had to fight double void moss mother because I didn't get rid of them early on

[teal drift]

yeah the cradle platform section was just "do the same harpoon jump 20 times"

[twilit current]

I liked that part, but tbh it felt more like path of mild inconvenience than path of pain

[zinc pivot]

Well you dont get any other bench in cradle

[teal drift]

I just wish cogworks was more difficult tbh

[zinc pivot]

Resting right before your grandmas bedroom is cursed

[teal drift]

my number one issue with that place

[eternal sigil]

I applaud Team Cherry for not only managing to reinvent the soul of the Primal Aspid, but to put it in an even more hellish environment such that its awfulness is made horribly clear

[zinc pivot]

Cogwork used to give me double headtrauma damage

[twilit current]

It's not too different from my own tier list surprisingly

[eternal sigil]

I completed Cogwork Core before it was patched

[umbral prism]

Same

[eternal sigil]

was horrible

[teal drift]

me too yeah it sucked

[solid badge]

I'd rather have fewer frustrating areas. It is one of the major issues I have with Silksong. It just frustrates me in quick succession. One annoying thing after the other.

[eternal sigil]

also fun fact, originally its name on the map was CogworkCore

[teal drift]

but it wasn't platforming difficult, just double damage difficult

[eternal sigil]

for some reason the space between the words didn't show up

[twilit current]

Very few areas in silksong frustrated me tbh, even bilewater was fine for me

[naive crag]

i would agree but during my second playthrough i barely struggled

they were right calling it skill issue

[twilit current]

Although to be fair, I went to the putrified ducts first and got the wreath of purity there

[pure belfry]

it's not bad but not nearly what it's supposed to be. It's supposed to be like a final test of your platforming and movement ability. It's supposed to be the pinnacle platforming challenge of the game just like PoP and it's just not. If it were just another regular platforming section in the game I would like it more.

[twilit current]

And bilewater was like the second last area I went to

[teal drift]

I wanted just a bit more challenging platforming through the game. We got some neat sequences but no really hard ones.

[twilit current]

Give me more lava escape sequences please

The two we have in the game are way too short

[naive crag]

i hate lava escape sequences

[teal drift]

I think they should make the surface climb way harder, like full POP level

[twilit current]

I loved both lava escape sequences

[naive crag]

mount fay does a better job giving you a time limit

[pure belfry]

I hated the one in Far Fields but loved the Abyss escape one

[teal drift]

i didnt like it when the lava escape sequences reset but i liked them overall

[zinc pivot]

We need more escape sequence

Two was too little

[twilit current]

I find it hilarious that the lava waits for you in the abyss escape one

[naive crag]

it was ok because of the music buildup

[solid badge]

Yes and no. It totally got a lot better with some skill-up, but the initial experience is horrendous. Do you want people to hate your product? Obviously you can't make it easy at first without getting complaints the other end. And TC haven't done difficulty settings in their game, heh.

I wanted to uninstall, it was that bad for me.

[naive crag]

i dont like lava if they dont include lava then im ok with it

[obsidian quail]

where is my silksong path of pain

[teal drift]

nowhere 🙁

there's not even anything white palace tier in Skong imo

[naive crag]

the only place that made me want to uninstall was hhg

[teal drift]

well, maybe the surface climb

[twilit current]

Funnily enough I found path of pain much more fun than white palace

[naive crag]

i was SEVERELY underleveled for it

[zinc pivot]

HHG nail 0 would be fun

[twilit current]

Path of pain felt just like celeste, fun rooms of hard platforming, white palace is just frustrating precision

[lethal burrow]

bike lanes are not the only way to get around

[umbral prism]

I somehow died on the final long ascend because i guess i was a couple pixels to a side and the game was just ok sure you beat it and placed me and my cocoon outside

[teal drift]

i meant more in terms of difficulty than fun. I do agree POP is more fun.

[naive crag]

i did it with the free nail upgrade

its the first melody i went to

[teal drift]

I do think there's incredibly little opportunity cost to TC adding an easy mode that's clearly labelled as "not the dev's intent"

[twilit current]

I didn't like white palace and expected to hate path of pain, then I went back to path of pain after playing silksong and was pleasantly surprised

[teal drift]

some people act like that's a sin to say, but I just think it wouldn't harm the game that much. Babysoul mode.

[twilit current]

I think an assist mode like celeste would be great

[zinc pivot]

Counterpoint you will play as baby hornet

[pure belfry]

The tension and the idea of actually ascending out as the Abyss floods definitely make it a lot more exciting. The Far Fields one was just an annoying arena fight where the floor is lava followed by a mid platforming section all for what? A mask shard?

[teal drift]

i would play that just for the adorableness

[twilit current]

I doubt they'd add one though, so I guess most people's option for an easy mode is probably mods

[teal drift]

esp considering a lot of people play HK for the vibes over the difficulty

[umbral prism]

You die to a boss too much it lets you call up second sentinel with a screen pop up

[twilit current]

I remember having way more difficulty on my first HK playthrough than my first silksong playthrough

[teal drift]

yeah TC seems to have some philosophical bent against easy modes, not sure I really get it when it seems somewhat easy to implement.

[solid badge]

Issue with adding an easy mode is that it would be a lot of hard and tedious work. Mindbogglingly boring to add more save spots, adjust hazards and their impact and so on. I would not wish such a task upon someone.

[twilit current]

Bosses like soul master, hornet 2 and traitor lord made me rage so hard

And their runbacks were awful

[naive crag]

same

[mint stratus]

I mean playing silksong the second time is a breeze because you’re more comfortable with the controls

[maiden meteor]

TC played HK so much they lost sense of difficulty probably

[twilit current]

Well, not hornet 2, but the other two

[naive crag]

evveryone complains about silksong runbacks but soul master is way worse than any silksong runback

[zinc pivot]

Traitor lord run back isn’t a problem if you got dreamgate

[teal drift]

I think Skong's difficulty curve just picks up from HK, it's kinda funny like that

[umbral prism]

it WAS meant as a dlc i think they never changed the difficulty plan much

[maiden meteor]

id argue groal runback is worse

[zinc pivot]

Soul master is shit tho( thats why you have soul in the area)

[twilit current]

I straight up rage quit soul master and only came back later with like 3 more masks, 2 nail upgrades and a ton of other stuff and demolished him

[umbral prism]

The game just starts getting incredibly mean since moorwing

[teal drift]

Groal runback is 1000% the most evil runback TC has put in HK.

[naive crag]

its not that bad with the secret bench

[twilit current]

Yeah, secret bench makes Groal runback manageable

[teal drift]

I think most people are complete babies about runbacks but even with the hidden bench the Groal runback is irritating to me.

[twilit current]

Still the worst runback in silksong, but I hate the runbacks in HK more

[solid badge]

Groal runbacks are enabled by TCs honestly evil decision to add that trap bench. The area was already hell, mercy please.

[pure belfry]

I think skong's difficulty floor is higher but the game gets a lot easier as you progress, and actually know how to effectively use all your options.

[twilit current]

Mantis Lords, Soul Master, Traitor Lord, Hive Knight (this one is the absolute worst)

[teal drift]

yeah Im very excited for Skong's DLC where they actually add a mode to really really master your skills, like Godhome did for HK

[mint stratus]

Honestly think some of the issues people have is relying too much on a single crest for every single boss, one size is not fits all

[teal drift]

I really was convinced Skong would come with a pre built in godhome of some variety

[twilit current]

Yeah, I feel like the silksong difficulty curve largely plateaus after act 1, with just a few difficulty spikes

Act 1 was brutal and I was terrified of what came next, but I found acts 2 and 3 relatively chill because you could get tons of upgrades

[solid badge]

Agreed, one size does not fit all. But for each player archetype, options are still limited. I couldn't use Architect if my life depended upon it.

[teal drift]

Yeah, and Skong has some really weird moments, like Cogwork Dancers being way easier than most act 1 bosses

[twilit current]

Of course, now that I've come back to play act 1, it's trivial lol

[naive crag]

i think the issue with act 1 is that its the less linear act

[twilit current]

Funnily enough I started a new save with architect crest

[mint stratus]

Oh that’s fair, had to learn the hard way that reaper crest was too slow for the large conefly

[teal drift]

I think act 1 was actually pretty linear for most players I saw

[twilit current]

The downward pogo is so annoying to deal with, but drilling enemies to death was fun

[naive crag]

act 2 is just the citadel and nothing else kinda

[twilit current]

Act 2 has a ton of side areas to explore

[naive crag]

most of them were already accesible by act 1

[twilit current]

Mount Fay, Bilewater, Putrified Ducts, Sands of Karak, Wisp Thicket

[zinc pivot]

Yeah you only really explore bile water in act 2

[twilit current]

The vast majority of Bilewater doesn't open up until you get double jump

[teal drift]

besides Hunter's march, there's not many optional things in Act 1. Most players are guided explicitly to go in a winding snake formation through the map.

[naive crag]

wisp thicket is barely an area

[twilit current]

And the citadel is gargantuan

It's like 1/3 or more of the map

[solid badge]

Act 1 was just a rough start to a game, more so before nerf waves. It wasn't pretty having to navigate spikes with 5 Masks and most hits taking 2 of that. Sometimes even the 'spike floor' itself.

[zinc pivot]

Wisp thicket was strangely out of place

[pure belfry]

this is probably true. for me at least. I really like to main a crest, but that's not what the game encourages. A big part of progression for the Hunter Crest is unlocking the other Crests and their memory slots which doesn't really matter if you never use them. I think the idea of that is the game is telling you to try out every crest for spaces of time even if you are primarily commited to one, like the Hunter.

[zinc pivot]

All for a subpar tool

[mint stratus]

I’m so incredibly powerful for repeatedly getting lost in act 1 trying to use a guide to speedrun

[twilit current]

Wisp thicket does feel a bit out of place, but I do like the lore that all of greymoor was once wisp thicket

[teal drift]

<--------|
-------->|

^ this is the route the game really guides you into taking. You can do some breaks in sequence but this is 100% the way the game guides you to play.

[twilit current]

But industrialisation and pollution turned greymoor into a drab and dreary place

[umbral prism]

Act 1 wasn't an issue but i was just utterly lost in act 2 and the place was just ginormous and theres like no fast travel if you don't see the terminus thingies

[silent patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-silksong-absolute-cinema-hornet-absolute-cinema-silksong-hollow-knight-silksong-gif-5012008976124037910

[teal drift]

the other routes involve doing the flea quest or buying the 500 rosary simple key and going up through wormways

[twilit current]

And I think that's completely fine

[teal drift]

and even if you do the flea quest youll realize quickly you pretty much need to backtrack to far fields to get the cloak

[twilit current]

I like that the early game is more guided than HK, it was sometimes pretty unclear what the next thing to do was in HK

[solid badge]

I actually find the fact that they called those Vent...rica was it? hilarious. You literally Vent like in the sus game.

[mint stratus]

I think I kept accidentally going in circles 😭

[teal drift]

I think it's fine, but someone was claiming act 1 was less linear than act 2

[umbral prism]

Oh god damn it team cherry

[teal drift]

yeah i remember i couldn't find the resting grounds so I was just super lost for a bit looking for directions

before finally finding the damn dream nail and being like "how did I miss that?"

[twilit current]

Like, now that we know the game, it's obvious that the path is crossroads -> greenpath -> fungal wastes -> mantis village -> whatever you want to do, but it's a bit tricky to find without guidance

I just straight up googled it because I had no idea what to do next a lot in the early game

[teal drift]

I also missed the mantis claw and was super confused about where to go lol

seems like you and I had a similar experience but i was too stubborn to look it up and wasted a lot of my time lol

[twilit current]

I even googled how to get out of city of tears because I was stuck lol

[lethal burrow]

the humble worm ways through the mist

[teal drift]

I've been replaying but doing the most unintuitive route

[solid badge]

And it is this sequence of area access that made HK such a beloved game. As long as you weren't playing sound off/trashy music on, the music helped you forge on.

[twilit current]

Greenpath was great, first time I really clicked into HK

[teal drift]

I think wormways --> shellwood --> slab --> mount faye --> wisp thicket --> underworks is the peak route

you just have to do 20 hard skips

[mint stratus]

Anyone know how the pinmaster in the putrified ducts died?

[zinc pivot]

How do you get into slab from worm ways

[twilit current]

But I like the silksong early game more, I was having more fun than in crossroads on my first playthrough

[teal drift]

oh i forgot a step

[zinc pivot]

Oh you mean the epic sharpdart skip

[pure belfry]

Idk how someone could reach the conclusion that Act 2 is more linear. That's baffling to me. There's like 1 path in Act 1 with an optional vacation to Hunter's March.

[naive crag]

i personally always disliked crossroads a lot

[teal drift]

yeah that is what i was feeling

[lethal burrow]

lets talk about who imprisoned first sinner.

[teal drift]

yeah i also disliked crossroads when i first played HK

[zinc pivot]

Nice sarcasm with HM there

[twilit current]

I liked crossroads more my most recent HK playthrough because I know the lore better now, but not knowing the lore it's just a kinda boring area

[mint stratus]

Does taking a horrible vacation to the wisp thicket count as act 1?

[zinc pivot]

bench trap noise

[teal drift]

I like the guy who fought the first sinner in act 1

[pure belfry]

oh yeah ig there are alternate routes at the end.

[zinc pivot]

double damage noise

[pure belfry]

sinner's road/mist and wisp thicket are there ig

[twilit current]

Don't you need double jump to access wisp thicket

[naive crag]

you do

[obsidian quail]

i truly think Hollow Knight clears Silksong but i don’t think that takes away from silksong

[umbral prism]

Wish i went to sinners road in act 1, tacks woulda been useful during act 2

[teal drift]

yes, but you can use sharpdart skips

[obsidian quail]

Hollow Knight was just lightning in a bottle

everything was 10/10

[twilit current]

Personally I love silksong way more than HK, I liked HK but I absolutely love silksong

[pure belfry]

you can always go back once you reach a bellway. I don't like skipping Last Judge because I like the boss too much

[mint stratus]

I got sent to the slab went straight up the mountain and dipped

[teal drift]

I think one's purple lightning and one's green lightning. I like them both.

[zinc pivot]

Thats no vacation if you are getting in citadel by that

[umbral prism]

I have very conflicting feelings with silksong i
Think i like it??? a lot??? but also there were countless times I wanted to quit or throw something at the wall

[lethal burrow]

for act 1 you can either take the flea caravan, worm ways, or far fields to get to the second layer up, from there all roads lead to bellhart and then you either go mist or blasted steps.

This is assuming no unintended skips or glitches.

[twilit current]

It's funny because a lot of people's complaints about silksong were complaints I had about HK and felt they're way more egregious there on my first playthrough

[solid badge]

HK was weird, and mechanically limited in fairly absurd ways. But it had a lot of love put in it, so much for you to absorb by mitosis or something.

[mint stratus]

Oh that’s the mist, also known as the hellish speedrun purgatory

[zinc pivot]

Shame that we cant finish silksong without triggering act 2

Would be kinda funny if we didn’t see lace in choral chambers at all

[naive crag]

and you can get kidnapped

[twilit current]

My favourite thing about HK was probably the exploration, getting lost in a whole new area was cool

[pure belfry]

can you actually use wormways to get up to Shellwood?

[teal drift]

Skong's biggest issue for me was that sometimes I just was not good enough at video games for it, whereas in HK i got progress locked a few times.

[teal drift]

yes, you need to use the simple key though

[lethal burrow]

yup, you only need dash.

[solid badge]

Kindapping entry to The Slab is the best way in.

[twilit current]

Everything else about HK I thought was alright

[teal drift]

you can avoid lace's first fight too, she'll say hi to you on the shellwood bridge

[lethal burrow]

true but it's not like that really gets you into act 2

[zinc pivot]

Or sinners road gate

[umbral prism]

I went to the slab by myself and was like woah i cant do shit here and only got kidnapped way later

[naive crag]

i like hallownest more than pharloom

[teal drift]

You can actually get to shellwood without dash but it requires weird cocoon ships

[naive crag]

theres like 4 greenpaths in pharloom

[mint stratus]

Had to look up the apostate key

[zinc pivot]

Wait you can get kidnapped after getting to slab?

[teal drift]

I do like Hallownest more than pharloom but the games overall I think Skong played better on the first route

[twilit current]

Honestly Pharloom's grown on me, it's just such a dynamic place with so many diverse areas

That being said, I'd much rather live in Hallownest lol

[pure belfry]

?

[zinc pivot]

I thought wardenflies desapwn after we visit the slab first

[umbral prism]

Nah they're there

[naive crag]

far fields, hunters march, shellwood

[teal drift]

I did find some areas in Pharloom pretty repetitive, like to me Hunter's march, far fields, and the marrow sorta blended together.

[naive crag]

none of them stood out for me

[mint stratus]

Silksong is an objectively better game but I’m biased towards hollow knight

[zinc pivot]

So we can still get kidnapped after visiting the slab from choral chambers

[solid badge]

I've noped out of The Slab. Was already down to my last Mask. Friend told me to go enter Slab in the better way. I admit, fistfighter Hornet is quite the thing.

[teal drift]

also Sinners Road + Bilewater + Ducts are literally just one area high key.

[twilit current]

I think the objectively better game is the one you subjectively like more

[zinc pivot]

She kicks

Man im speedrunning wings and 9 masks now

Then im getting cursed ending

[twilit current]

I still like the lost and dead kingdom vibe of HK, I think that was really cool

[solid badge]

Fair. My premise assumed Hornet has fists in the first place and I do not have proof of that.

[umbral prism]

Wonder how hallownest is rn. Gotta assume everywhere is riddled with corpses now that radiance is gone

Not that it wasn't before but. More

[teal drift]

For me, the difference in the two games reminds me a lot of SMG1 vs 2, where one has probably better gameplay, but the vibes on the first one kinda clear.

[zinc pivot]

Well, maybe some life subsist where we cant see

[naive crag]

silksong really puts into perspective how dead hallownest is

[pure belfry]

hunter's march and far fields are pretty similar, but shellwood is completely different and none of them are that similar to Greenpath. There are some similarites between Greenpath and Shellwood if you squint but Idk how you reach the conclusion that Hunter's March/ Far Fields are even remotely similar

[zinc pivot]

Sentient life not wild bugs

[twilit current]

And I think HK and Silksong existing is more of a "wow! Two cakes!" kinda thing than "oh wow which one's better / a replacement"

[umbral prism]

Silksong doing "but what if the kingdom was sort of alive" was a pretty good natural progression tho I'll say

[twilit current]

I like what HK did with its dead kingdom and I like what silksong did with its living, breathing kingdom on its final legs

[teal drift]

One sad thing abt Skong being so good is that it made Hallownest feel small to me, which it never had before.

[naive crag]

thats why its my opinion

hollow knight areas are all wildly different from each other

[teal drift]

shellwood high key one of my less preferred areas. Just the most generic planty area in the whole game.

[pure belfry]

Sure, but Idk where you're finding those similarites. I'm curious is all

[twilit current]

Idk, I actually kinda like the vibe of shellwood

[solid badge]

Hmm, is it that much smaller though? It is, sure. But is it say 60% Pharloom's size? Not lil more perhaps? Feels like it had more 'out of map' areas.

[mint stratus]

Pros and cons, silksong I feel like I could explore forever but it gets overwhelming sometimes

[twilit current]

Just a mysterious and small little grotto next to the bell town with cute hunters and creatures

[naive crag]

plants and fields I HATE plants and fields thats my thought process

green is the worst color

thats really the only similarity

[pure belfry]

I love the atmosphere of Shellwood. It's so distinct from the rest of the game. It feels like an actual forest as opposed to the Citadel or the rocky areas like Marrow and Deep Docks

[teal drift]

on one hand, I like the way the areas in Skong link together and blend in to each other, but the HK thing where each area had a radically different vibe was super cool.

[naive crag]

hallownest has more urban areas

pharloom has settlements and then the citadel

[mint stratus]

Shellwood feels like it’s waiting to eat me for some reason :/ love it though, very pretty!

[solid badge]

Shellwood carries the heavy burden of being the core of Zote's divine blade.

[pure belfry]

I also really like Shellwood's color pallete

[umbral prism]

The stick bug enemies are funny

[twilit current]

Idk, I think Mount Fay, Choral Chambers, Deep Docks and Bilewater are pretty distinct

[teal drift]

like going from Sinner's Road to Bilewater I felt very little because of the natural progression of the maggot swamp theme already present in Sinner's road, but going from Wastes to Deepnest felt like going to a whole new world

theyre very different across the map, but they're next to similar areas

[twilit current]

I thought the silksong areas blended together at first, but now that I've explored the entire map I love the full breadth of diversity across the map

Which I think is really cool

[fallow spindle]

i think lost being in the boss titles just meant they lost to the void

[teal drift]

skong and HK have equal diversity, but Skong has all these in between areas that bridge the themes, rather than sudden changes in themes

[fallow spindle]

garmond lost to the void therefore he is lost garmond

[twilit current]

You really get to see the areas change as you travel through them and there's still a huge diversity in regions throughout the map

[mint stratus]

Agreed! The amount of the map I’ve managed to memorize is kinda terrifying

[umbral prism]

Yea Lost seems to mean they've lost themselves

[lethal burrow]

greymoor and bilewater are 👌

[twilit current]

And one thing I really like about silksong is the much better bellway placement, going back to HK was a bit frustrating with having to figure out pathing from the rather awkwardly placed stagways

[fallow spindle]

making me comeback to bilewater alot tho

[teal drift]

I think greymoor is the one thing I overhyped in my head from the trailers and was mildly dissapointed by.

[pure belfry]

Greymoor's atmosphere was so peak when I first found it. Such a memorable area.

[teal drift]

Like its still a cool area but i think i got super hyped for it for some reason

[umbral prism]

Love greymoor having a little tavern in the middle

[solid badge]

Areas are distinct and I personally can identify what kind of ground and wall I'm looking at. Which confused me to no end when a friend told me they made it to the furnace area in Act 1... they had gotten stuck at the Skarrgard fight. Yea that ain't a furnace.

[naive crag]

at least youre not like everynoe else anticipating the coral area

[mint stratus]

Loved act 3 beastling fast travel, so much more convenient compared to dream gate

[pure belfry]

also I love the build-up to Moorwing and the fight itself. especially if you have Garmond join. It's not a particularly hard fight but it is very fun

[scenic stirrup]

I wonder how eva feels whenever we overdose lol

[umbral prism]

It's so good because otherwise I might just exit to menu and re enter if I don't wanna do the walk back and the beastlings fix that

[twilit current]

I genuinely don't get why people hate moorwing, I really liked that fight

[fallow spindle]

see a random pit? it leads to bilewater
try and find the witches crest? go to bilewater
attempt to sit on a bench? fell to bilewater
do you need soul? beat the bilewater gauntlet

[twilit current]

And I fought the pre nerf moorwing too

[scenic stirrup]

Doesn't she react with the overdose?

[zinc pivot]

Banished us like the plague

[teal drift]

I really like it too, but it was my first "fuck everything 3HKOs me" boss and I had to adjust hard

[umbral prism]

Will i get stoned to death if i admit i cheesed moorwing

[chrome atlas]

nah same here lmao

[scenic stirrup]

Moorwing got nerfed

[solid badge]

Well, as she agreed when speaking with Hornet about it... she ceases to exist as a separate will. She no longer is.

[chrome atlas]

i cheesed him after the fleas moved on, too

[zinc pivot]

How do you cheese moorwing

[pure belfry]

same. even pre-nerf Moorwing wasn't really that challenging. He felt like a sort of early game test for the player without being too punishing and I love the mechanics of the fight

[mint stratus]

I think it’s cause you didn’t have much health to last if you got hit in while in a bad position

[twilit current]

Pre nerf moorwing killed me a couple of times, but I found him fun and it was satisfying to bring him down with Garamond

[umbral prism]

U go up where you came from and have it follow you and down slash until it dies

[teal drift]

i find it funny that they nerfed the less frustrating part of moorwing instead of his bigass body doing 2 contact damage

[scenic stirrup]

U reaper crest pogo at a wall

[zinc pivot]

Thing is people ignore moorwings projectile too much

[twilit current]

I really love the animation when moorwing flips over and summons the two spinny projectiles at once, made the fight feel more epic

[zinc pivot]

Like they rammed head in

[scenic stirrup]

What was nerfed from moorwin again

[twilit current]

When I refought moorwing I realised that the floaty cloak makes dodging his charge really easy

[teal drift]

with moorwing the way the saws curve upwards is also super awkward given the large size of the arena

[scenic stirrup]

The projectiles became one damage right?

[pure belfry]

I think the 2 mask damage on the saws

[scenic stirrup]

Damn

[solid badge]

Moorwing could be cheesed with Reaper in that one corner, or by fighting from under the platform with the upwards fan. Second option kinda sucks, but should still work.

[teal drift]

like moorwing overall, but especially on release he was kind of a gatekeeper boss and a sudden step up in difficulty

[twilit current]

I liked that aspect of him, really felt like a real early game test

[teal drift]

I'm so glad Sister Splinter's ads were nerfed, those things made me angry to no end

[twilit current]

But I get why team cherry nerfed him to smooth out the difficulty curve a little bit

[scenic stirrup]

Ads?

[teal drift]

the summons she has

[umbral prism]

Wish i knew magma bell breaks last judge's legs

[scenic stirrup]

Oh

[twilit current]

Besides, it would be a shame if people quit before encountering the absolute peak bossfight that is Widow

[solid badge]

I now realise that I described the method for 'cheesing' Groal.

[teal drift]

widow >>>>

[zinc pivot]

Widows peak

[umbral prism]

Do they do 1 damage now or something

[teal drift]

yeah

[zinc pivot]

Yeah i think so

[twilit current]

Widow is still my third favourite fight in the game, what an amazing boss

[scenic stirrup]

Feel like groal is meant to be cheese or else they wouldve patch it by now

[pure belfry]

Highkey Garmond is an equally great character to both Shakra and Sherma. I loved following Garmond's journey all the way to the tragic end in Act 3. He's such a likable character.

[teal drift]

I found widow way more learnable than moorwing because it turns out not having a massive arena makes tricky attacks easier to learn

[twilit current]

Garamond becoming lost was so heartbreaking

[solid badge]

Is it me or does Widow have some of that spastic Nosk gene?

[twilit current]

Well, it forces you into learning their attacks, at least

[chrome atlas]

The Groal boss fight itself doesn't feel so bad, it's just that the runback's giga ass

[scenic stirrup]

I thought garmond would become the new zote

[mint stratus]

You’ve convinced me, they are the same person

[scenic stirrup]

But honestly really like him

[twilit current]

I think Groal will move up on my tier list once I get to fight him in godhome without the runback and pre fight arena

Not that much higher, but at least not in D tier with Broodmother

[teal drift]

the problem with moorwing is he'd fire his saws, but because the arena was so big and my position relative to him could be so variable, I didnt know when they would curve upwards and gank my ass as i tried to jump over them. So the only answer was to keep myself constantly in a specific range of him instead of just sightreading the attacks.

[solid badge]

Godhome Groal needs a new title. Groan.

[pure belfry]

that was my early impression of him but turns out he's actually goated. He's not extremely strong like he hypes himself up but he's not a coward and is more than willing to fight.

[teal drift]

I find sightreading a lot more fun than "keep the boss at this distance at all times so you won't get caught off guard"

[umbral prism]

Groal the Tyrant

[teal drift]

I like Garmond a lot 🙁

[twilit current]

Garamond helped me a good bit in the moorwing fight and I like him for that

[teal drift]

I think when I did it he kept whiffing on moorwing lol

[twilit current]

I think it's so cool that the first real difficulty check in the game allows you to go in as a 2v1

[mint stratus]

No one could replace Zote

[umbral prism]

Really sad you can't get Zaza

[teal drift]

take zaza home with you DLC

[scenic stirrup]

I feel like if there is a new zote hornet would automatically beat the shit out of him senseless

[twilit current]

I guess there's Kratt, that guy does suck

[scenic stirrup]

Hornet is not as forgiving as the knight lolol

[twilit current]

But not the same as Zote

[solid badge]

I need myself some HK therapy. Go watch Zote be chewed on.

[pure belfry]

Garmond's so motivated and committed to his goal even in his old age and relative weakness. He's a fighter even with the odds clearly stacked against him and I think even Hornet admires him for that

[teal drift]

tbh jubilana

[naive crag]

zote is hilarious kratt is disgusting

[twilit current]

I feel like Hornet would just ignore a Zote like character, not important enough for Hornet to care about

[mint stratus]

I want the option to kill kratt

[twilit current]

If someone doesn't bother her she kinda just lets them do whatever

[scenic stirrup]

Tbh grindle is kinda like

[solid badge]

Hahaha I remember, wasn't it Kratt who tried to sweet-talk Hornet and she was like 'Call me by my name or never address me again.'

[teal drift]

now that i think on it jubilana is the one i feel was closest to zote

[twilit current]

I love how you can play golf with Kratt right after whacking him from the spa window

[teal drift]

she pissed me right off and it wasn't even funny like our Grey Prince

[solid badge]

Jubilana and Mort both just... keep asking you to 'show your devotion'. Turns me away.

[mint stratus]

I’m convinced that team cherry would just put zote in silksong inexplicably

[teal drift]

Mort at least has the decency to die

[pure belfry]

Is Mort the shopkeep in Pilgrim's Rest?

[teal drift]

I think Mort dying made me like his character 10x more. Like he actually made me a bit sad even though he sucked ❤️

[solid badge]

They gave him the name Mort. I find it weird. Like it already means 'Dead'...................

[teal drift]

I thought you were going in a different direction there for a second

[zinc pivot]

Because thats what he deserves

Trying to replicate the underworks

[naive crag]

mad?

[pure belfry]

it just expounds on the bleakness of Act 3. the compounded destruction of all these places even the deaths of the least liked people feel like tragic, wasteful destruction.

It makes you hate the Snail Shamans even more for destroying the world and gaslighting Hornet

[solid badge]

Both are endlessly greedy. One even asks for money to enter the safety of his shopping mall, the other's face is a limp ....

[mint stratus]

My favorite character besides garmond is grindle

[mint stratus]

Mort from madagascar is a demon

[pure belfry]

The Theorizer is that you?

[umbral prism]

Wonder how exactly stuff would've transpired if hornet didnt get caught so lace wouldn't have thrown herself at gms

[teal drift]

I think GMS would just die after some amount of fighting

[viscid ridge]

Look what i found as a cut background frame from the memorium. Please team cherry bring shitshell guy back 😭😭🙏🙏

[umbral prism]

Would pharloom just be fine?

[solid badge]

We'd have gotten Silksong before 2020 ended.

[umbral prism]

Omg trailer guy

[teal drift]

If lace didn't fall in I think the plan would've worked.

[lean temple]

Yeah. And if she catches him peeping she tells him to be grateful she didn't kill him and that she will do it if he peeps again

[teal drift]

The question is if Lace would have thrown herself in regardless of Hornet being caught

I think to an extent Lace just wanted to stab her mom as her mom died.

[mint stratus]

But how was ass jim allowed into the citadel? All the flies we see are in the slab

[teal drift]

only to find out her mom actually loved her 🙁

[viscid ridge]

Hes not the same type of fly as the slab flies

[solid badge]

She jumped to deny her own mother a certain satisfaction. I'd think that Lace wouldn't want into the snare otherwise.

[umbral prism]

Yea ass jim doesn't have that. Elephant thing the others have

[teal drift]

Renowned chef Lugoli is probably a native to sinner's road who went to cook in the citadel, based on their resemblance to the other roach herders.

[solid badge]

Lace was quite stubborn about herself not being truly alive, and ever so slowly degrading, as Phantom did. Chances are she'd still reject her mother's love.

[pure belfry]

How far can you actually make it in the game without killing Widow? Obviously you can't do the Threefold Melody or the Weaver doors but you could technically skip Last Judge and make it into the Citadel through The Mist, and get all the movement abilities and explore most of the map without Needolin.

[teal drift]

if lace didn't change after all of the events of the true ending, hornet should simply kick her back into the void.

[umbral prism]

Lol they're all called roachkeeper roachcatcher roachfeeder roachserver that's pretty funny

[teal drift]

you can't get through the mist without needolin, it hard locks you out

HOWEVER

[mint stratus]

Well you’d have to have it for the three fold melody, besides that idk

[zinc pivot]

Navigating the mist needolin less is cbt

[teal drift]

wait nvm i just cracked out

[pure belfry]

oh right.

[teal drift]

you actually physically cant get through the mist without needolin, the game stops you

[zinc pivot]

Interesting

[teal drift]

if its not in your inventory there is no correct answer

i was gonna say do the wisp thicket skip, but that requires sharp dart, which is behind a weaver door

[mint stratus]

Also is the reason sherma survived because he played music which tends to stun enemies?

[teal drift]

thats probably a factor

[pure belfry]

Lol I came to the same conclusion

[teal drift]

but also i think not all haunted entities are as hostile to other pilgrims as they are to hornet.

[pure belfry]

Sherma was right the whole time

[solid badge]

Sherma's music only seems to enchant us humans though.

[mint stratus]

In pilgrims rest he’s playing for a clearly silk strung pilgrim

[teal drift]

also if you look in the files, Sherma's shirtless sprite has ripling abs, indicating a high degree of strength

[solid badge]

Aight think Imma exit convo soon, that was info that worries me.

[umbral prism]

Sherma was doing some crazy parkour to get to that chair on blasted steps

[teal drift]

Could sherma have wings

[mint stratus]

Sherma Is jacked confirmed

[zinc pivot]

Sherma would be a worthy half of the new pharloom royal genetic

[teal drift]

the man problem with no epilogue is that we don't get to see pope sherma

[solid badge]

We're here now so can you please fork over this Sherma sprite? Friend of mine is gonna have a suprise in his IMs real soon.

[chrome atlas]

that's how sherma got through last judge
he's not free of sin, he's just so unbelievably yoked that he put the last judge somewhere else

[mint stratus]

Sherma is out of hornets league

[solid badge]

👀

[teal drift]

honestly impressed i found this on google, fanart never dissapoints

[solid badge]

Masseur vibes

[mint stratus]

Wdym fanart? Team cherry put this in the game

[teal drift]

i hope they add a lost sherma boss fight in future DLCs tbh

[umbral prism]

Sherma getting that far i think means every bug has access to the third dimension and doesn't need to jump into floating platforms and hornet is just stupid

[solid badge]

They can't.

[mint stratus]

Wyrm foresight genes have some drawbacks

[umbral prism]

Why do u want poor sherma to die

[mint stratus]

Convinced lost sherma would be just as nice as regular sherma

[umbral prism]

Also void seems to really hate music so sherma is cracked against it

[solid badge]

Sherma's direction is towards becoming a staple of the budding future Pharloom community. A better place.

[umbral prism]

At least the tendrils

[solid badge]

Oh, right. Just a random tidbit about the snails. Their empty conches emit a bit of whispy white when struck. Soul maybe. Odd?

[mint stratus]

Shermas biceps flex off the voids hold

[mint stratus]

They seem to like collecting soul? Maybe it’s something like that

[solid badge]

Question then is how they do this in Pharloom. They don't seem to use the same tech as Hallownest snails.

[mint stratus]

Snail shell?

[solid badge]

Calcium then. Weirder still.

Nah wait, is soul in the flesh or in the shells.

Spiral focus... soul is made coherent within shells. Did I for years miss how important shells were for Soul magic?

[zinc pivot]

Snail shell is probably similar to void

The spiral design acts like a vortex pulling soul in

[edgy nebula]

starting to think the khann hibernation theory has more merit than i first thought

[solid badge]

Ugh, but Groal is a Vengeful Spirit user, and in his case, seems like the soul is shot out of his gullet.

[forest tendon]

It could be that he harvests soul by consuming bugs whole

[solid badge]

His Vengeful Spirits are visibly less refined than the Vessel's, I could agree that he is not very adept at it. Or unsuitably formed to coalesce the Soul properly.

[forest tendon]

It could be that he doesn’t really know what he’s doing mechanically and is just benefiting from him being particularly well attuned to engaging with souls

For whatever reason I couldn’t tell ya

[solid badge]

There is some chance he somehow absorbed SOMETHING from the Snail that visited his lands. And paid for it.

Ah yeah there is mention of this in his Trivia on the wiki.

[forest tendon]

Not impossible considering snails have the ability to grant capable beings of soul focusing abilities

Vengeful spirit being the explicit one from the first game

[solid badge]

The 3 snail shaman may have ceased to exist due to performing a ritual on Hornet, a partially Pale being.

[forest tendon]

I’ve always been fascinated by the state of every snail we see in the series

Half the snails in HK appear to just be destabilizing and melting down as opposed to anything actually happening to them

[craggy smelt]

if what Groal is using is actually the Vengeful Spirit, a spell the Crossroads shaman claimed to have invented, then... uh-oh
that guy probably regrets going to visit the extended family in Pharloom

[solid badge]

For all I know, the snails may be remnants of the Ancient Civilization. Not that they never went that deep so as to know of Abyssal Shriek, but that it is lost knowledge?

[forest tendon]

Lmao they may actually be relatives

[solid badge]

The snails' extended families are quite the trope actually. Likely true.

[craggy smelt]

between the crossroads snail not recognizing the Abyss Shriek and multiple mentions of the snails not going to the Abyss, I doubt there's a connection between them and the AC

also the AC not having any snail shell imagery, and being mostly weirdly giant bugs

ancient nailsmith, the shade cloak guy, etc.

[solid badge]

I do have my doubts, yes. Especially that fossils are of giant bugs. Unless we see huge snail shells, the idea is dead.

[forest tendon]

My main theory on the snails is that they’re ancient civilization remnants but only in what they literally are, as in the nature of their beings, but their culture and existence in any form we see them as has evolved past the ancient civilization. They’re only connected in origin point but don’t have any direct affiliation, in terms of what I know at least

[obsidian quail]

the snails are just wannabe ancient civilization

they like void but don’t got the juice like the AC goats

[solid badge]

Yes, Snails are far less involved or goated compared to AC.

[forest tendon]

They’re not fans of becoming a very angry ocean of ooze

[craggy smelt]

I suspect the AC died out (or at least disappeared) long before anyone else encountered them and will remain mysterious

maybe if we're lucky the steel clan dug up some more info on them

[solid badge]

What I fear most is that AC is something that won't even be explored in Silksong DLCs due to being far removed from Hornet's endeavors.

[forest tendon]

The only potential tie I see with them is that the Radiance may have interacted with them ages ago and may be the reason they don’t exist anymore, but ofc I can’t claim that in any capacity beyond her considering the void her ancient enemy

[forest tendon]

In fairness, act 3 is all about the abyss, which up until that point wasn’t really involved in her story either, so it’s possible

[obsidian quail]

AC bugs were void like Vessels

[craggy smelt]

there are those ancient ruins atop Hallownest's Crown that have the Soul glyphs on them
they might be moth construction, but they don't really match anything the moths did in the Resting Grounds (no Essence imagery, etc.)

[obsidian quail]

no one can stop my head canon

[solid badge]

Problem is that current day Abyss is too late for AC stuff... well, I do suspect a bell connected to the Abyss, so I'll hold onto hope.

[blissful harbor]

ellina implies they’re moth made

[forest tendon]

Mhm I’d forgotten about that.

The Radiance is also the oldest entity we’re aware of in the Hallownest area so if any being is likely to have interacted with the AC it’s her, which again may explain a bit about what happened to them.

[ebon silo]

Guys if we ever somehow got the chance to fight the knight would he be a spellcaster freak or a Chad nailmaster

[solid badge]

Hallownest's Crown is almost 100% moth design. From the times they worshipped Radiance rather than tend to the spirits of the departed.

[craggy smelt]

she mentions winged figures, which could allude to moths, or their dream forms

[ebon silo]

that is literally the moths home

[blissful harbor]

idk what other species would fit that description, it’s almost certainly moths

[forest tendon]

I think he’s a bit beyond the use of his nail at this point, being the lord of the abyss and all

[blissful harbor]

yk aside from the giant Rad

[forest tendon]

He’d be a chad void tentacle spam user

[ebon silo]

So basically lost lace

[forest tendon]

Yeah just….scaled way up

[ebon silo]

Yeah it's not like the area has a statue that suspiciously looks like a particular god who we have to fight to kill the infection or anything

And that god who was worshipped by a bunch of flying figures or anything

[solid badge]

Which speaks volumes for how in tune the moths were with Radiance. They understood her form, rather than seeing her as a sun.

[ebon silo]

For all we know it could be unn

[forest tendon]

The moths are implied to originate from the radiance directly right?
Like with Unn and the mosskin

[ebon silo]

Yeah the radiance created them

[forest tendon]

Mhm, again still the funniest joke in the game to me

The biggest light created a race of moths lmao

[craggy smelt]

which also raises the question
if Radiance lives in the minds of the moths, but also created the moths in the first place...
whose minds was she living in before creating them?

[ebon silo]

Eventually the pale king arrived did nothing and the moths worshipped pale king because he was more "existing" unlike the radiance who was seemingly just light to them

[ebon silo]

Dreams itself

[solid badge]

This is an issue shared by GMS to some degree.

[forest tendon]

Likely just the dream world, she seems to function like a chaos god from 40k, her power is relative to who believes in her and thus has her in their mind

[craggy smelt]

that would make her extra evil for getting all stroppy about being forgotten by the moths

[ebon silo]

The radiance originated in team Cherry's sketchbook aka the dream world

[craggy smelt]

just go back to your dream home

[forest tendon]

Oh yeah the radiance is genocidally petty

[solid badge]

So gods seem to just come into existence with a will and their will is to gain worship, in turn giving them greater presence.

[ebon silo]

It's not his fault really or even the pale king it was the moths tribes fault had they not change who to believe hallownest would've been a great kingdom

[forest tendon]

Yeah what originates the dream gods isn’t known

[solid badge]

Either way, chicken and egg problem. Twice so far, good one TC.

[ebon silo]

Every god creation or origin is a chicken and egg problem

[blissful harbor]

i mean they’re gods, i don’t think youre supposed to fully understand them or their origin that’s the point

[forest tendon]

It was still Rad’s fault mostly, she reacted to her fan club choosing a new god by essentially giving every sapient being a psychic plague that mutates your body into a monster

[ebon silo]

They exist because they seemingly do

[blissful harbor]

simply decided one day to appear until further notice

[craggy smelt]

i hope City of Steel has like a big record of all the gods
like a bunch of statues

[solid badge]

Let's scratch our heads at the Seer seemingly turning into a Lumafly when 'ascending'.

[craggy smelt]

there's some familiar faces, and a bunch of unknowns

[forest tendon]

Lumaflies need some serious explaining

[ebon silo]

I meannnn if I created people and they didn't worshipped me because they found someone better I would be pissed

[solid badge]

Lumaflies are theorized to be freed souls, think I've heard.

[forest tendon]

Right but like….she basically enacted universal genocide like she reacted quite poorly

[ebon silo]

freed souls yeah they're still being used

[solid badge]

Bugs have no respect, using them as lamps.

[ebon silo]

reacted poorly is idk about that

The radiance's action was justified 🤷 idk what to say

you steal my people I'll steal ypurs

[craggy smelt]

that's freedom of religion

[solid badge]

Radiance losing worship is more than justified. She would cease to exist. It's not about someone taking their toy, but their very existence.

[forest tendon]

Well apparently not because she returned long after being forgotten

So I think it’s moreso just about her being empowered rather than actually being threatened

[ebon silo]

I don't think radiance will cease to exist I mean he wouldn't exist in the first place now would he

[craggy smelt]

yea, Seer mentioned that being forgotten for a dream means being sealed away, not actually destroyed
it sucks maybe, but its not like a literal death

[solid badge]

Was Seer still remembering her? If yes, could we give credence to the idea that Seer's failure to abandon the old ways allowed Radiance to retain existence?

[forest tendon]

Seer is to blame (I think she did forget lol)

[ebon silo]

Seer does remember her but not that she actually cares or so idk but the only reason the radiance still existed was because of the statue in hallownests crown that was the thing that kept radiance alive

Like literally that was the only thing iirc

[craggy smelt]

Seer refers to 'hushed whispers of faith' until all of Hallownest started dreaming
so there was probably a handful of moths sticking to the old ways

[forest tendon]

Not exactly, the statue was what reminded bugs of her and restarted the infection

She was fine, but she was able to invade the dreams of bugs because of that effigy

[ebon silo]

Unfortunate

Now could the nightmare heart fight the radiance

[solid badge]

Yikes, getting sick from touching old moth god dust.

[ebon silo]

Y'know nightmare and dreams the easter bunny vs the dinosaurs type of question

[forest tendon]

Shoulda torn the statue down

Honestly that’s the pale king’s least ethical action as king

Because not doing that lead to everyone’s deaths

[ebon silo]

gods have powers to idk spread plagues hmmm wonder why they have such mutually assured destruction

[forest tendon]

The nightmare heart doesn’t really do that, it’s moreso just Rad

[solid badge]

Nightmare Hearts feels like a subversive force. I don't see it engaging in battle, but infecting dream.

[ebon silo]

The nightmare heart can be something yknow grimm Grimm itself is the NH iirc

Just a vessel to be something

[forest tendon]

Grimm is effectively it’s naturally reincarnating avatar that replaces his body from time to time

[solid badge]

White Lady mentioned the Nightmare Heart using her progeny to grow its own. So if Grimm is a progeny, then the Nightmare Heart cyclically feeds itself to be replaced by a new one.

[ebon silo]

If I remember there was some dialogue or something about the nightmare realm taking half of the dream realm from radiance because it was mandatory or something

Like y'know 50/50

[craggy smelt]

nothing like that - seer just has a poem about the heart

'Expanse of dream in past was split - one realm now must stand apart'

[ebon silo]

Oh ok

I wonder why radiance's rival is the void but not the nightmare realm

[forest tendon]

It’s because the void is an extremely effective counter to sentient life

Which gods rely on to function

[solid badge]

Dream and nightmare are sides of a coin. Void is death, regret.

[craggy smelt]

nightmares are still a type of dreams, and dreams are Essence/Light/etc.

[ebon silo]

fair enough

[solid badge]

Void would be the end of both dream and nightmare. Of life, in fact. Void* is regret of life's failures or so.

[forest tendon]

Yeah nightmares are a mechanic the radiance can meaningfully engage with, the void isn’t

It just counters her

[ebon silo]

Like every other god or anything

[blissful harbor]

void counters everything
it’s super death

[craggy smelt]

'cept for this one flower

[forest tendon]

The only exception is in some ways, is the pale king’s light

[craggy smelt]

which is countered by everything else

[blissful harbor]

a bright enough light can pacify it

[solid badge]

Yeah, that Everbloom thing. How does anything explain it being so fragile yet still existing.

[blissful harbor]

everbloom is the first light over whatever bs WL was talking about

[ebon silo]

I feel like the void is actually the wyrms dookie or something considering the world of HK had alot of wyrms which were mostly the reason big and huge civilizations exist and all but surely they knew something about the void

[blissful harbor]

dumbass flower should’ve stayed in godhome

[forest tendon]

As far as I’m aware the everbloom is a plant that exists from derivatives of the pale kings godly essence

[chrome atlas]

The Everbloom was drawn from Hornet's memory, not from the real-world Delicate Flower. It's an idealised version of the DF

[craggy smelt]

there's a trade-off for everything
Everbloom gets to hard-counter the most dangerous and powerful force in the cosmos
but a stiff breeze will obliterate it

[forest tendon]

Funny how that works

[ebon silo]

Something that gets countered by everything but counters the thing that is the most dangerous

[solid badge]

Mechanically speaking, true. Everbloom doesn't just die when your character sneezes.

[ebon silo]

Perfect

[twilit current]

When the everbloom appeared, I was wondering whether we had to do delicate flower quest v2 lol

[forest tendon]

It’s even funnier when the thing that gets countered by everything except for the one thing it counters is the thing that counters everything else…

[forest tendon]

No hit lost lace or no ending

[ebon silo]

Now for the white flower what is it exactly like i have some crackhead theory is that this thing was from idk the white ladies lineage or godhood powers or something and her lineage maybe lived with the void civilization and mayhaps the reason they kinda dabble in the black water

blackwater hmm that reminds me something

I should be in the mountains with dutch

[craggy smelt]

first light sounds like creation story stuff to me

this thing comes from primordial power

[blissful harbor]

i mean she tells us the flower isn’t hers
“not of me the flower, nor this land”

[solid badge]

If void is regret then flower is hope. But its origins are still unknown.

[whole holly]

First Light sounds like opposite Primal Force of Void, but i wonder if it is related to Essence, Soul or different thing altogether

[ebon silo]

I guess you could say the flower is hope and we have to dream...hope and dreams

[craggy smelt]

sounds pretty gay alright

[ebon silo]

I mean we did had to dream to get it

[blissful harbor]

that’s cause hornet didn’t have one on hand

[craggy smelt]

there seems to be a strong connection between Essence and Soul
living beings generate dreams, and dreams can become living beings

[ebon silo]

Yeah so if flower is hope we have to dream to get it hopes and dreams it's fucking Undertale all over again

[whole holly]

where is first light mentioned? in red memory?

[whole holly]

well, i guess

[craggy smelt]

yeah
WL: Witness, the first light. The only means we possess to resist that void with which our family is forever linked.

[solid badge]

Ah no, the flower isn't hope. But peace. The opposite of regret at the end of one's life, is peace. I'd think both sides are related to time rather than soul or essence.

Or contentment............ but that doesn't sounds so nice and aetherial.

[whole holly]

is her family linked forever with void or first light?

[blissful harbor]

void

shes talking about her and pk and vessels and shit

[craggy smelt]

probably, yeah

maaaaybe a hint at a larger connection between void and pale beings in general, the 'higher caste...'

[whole holly]

it is also interesting that radiance had light brighter than essence, she partially resisted void, Pale King had Pale Light to counter Void, i wonder in First Light is related to that somehow?

[ebon silo]

I'd like to see a god that suspiciously looks like a cherry

[obsidian quail]

i thought regret being void is a fan theory but we don’t know for sure

[craggy smelt]

that's right

[solid badge]

Void might as well be sin.

[craggy smelt]

(I hope its not actually regret - that would be dumb

[solid badge]

Like, think of the 'dandy' or whatever he's called, in HK. A fairly sinful character.

[obsidian quail]

Void can’t be sin because AC bugs saw it as something that erases sin

[ebon silo]

The void is actually wyrm dookie and piss because where do the things that come out from worms go

[solid badge]

Yeah I've nothing to go by either way. All being sinful effectively makes the very concept of sin pointless. But it'd be just annoying to use such logic.

[obsidian quail]

what

i think void is just void

[fallow spindle]

if TC ever makes a new game who would be the next mc? (obviously its pablo, the goat)

[blissful harbor]

its linked to regrets multiple times
symbolically at least

[solid badge]

If void is absence, what absence of.

[fallow spindle]

hypothetically speaking

i dont think a 3rd game will probably happen lol. but since they're financially stable they can still keep cooking indefinitely

[fallow spindle]

didnt we have dialogue relating to void being our regret

[blissful harbor]

everything
sound, sometimes
soul
life
thought (not really but yk)
its more perceived as absence by others as a property rather than being literal emptiness itself

[fallow spindle]

i guess it kinda makes sense in the first game as the knight "regretted" on dying

[fallow spindle]

so maybe its just regret since our shade is just our previous "regret"

[ebon silo]

The void is just water but black problem solved

[fallow spindle]

like how hornets regret is just the cocoon

[solid badge]

Hunger too. One instinct - to strike.

[obsidian quail]

yeah but i don’t think jiji knows what’s really going on with void

and it’s also hard to take that as canon since HK doesn’t die

[fallow spindle]

duh, regret probably is different from different bugs

[obsidian quail]

dammit where’s tammo when u need him

he breaks it down better

[fallow spindle]

maybe it cna be explained like hornet waking up in a bench allowing her to foresee what happens incase she fails in a hypothetical

the hypothethical situation when she wakes up can be called a regret

The knight respawning from the bench is kinda the same like that, it can forsee the future

Perhaps its because its from our wyrm abilities?

[solid badge]

I think Jiji and Jinn were both connected to the Steel faction, or possibly civilization. They seem robotic at times. They've never shown a flesh and shell body.

[fallow spindle]

Didnt rhe pale king been said to be able to see the future

[craggy smelt]

Jinn is definitely steel clan, Jiji is likely Jinn's vassal
Jiji is also certainly part of the clan, though maybe a renegade like Sula

[fallow spindle]

so its like a foresight

That can be passed down to hornet and the knight, which are both part wyrm and that may mean they have the abilities of foresight

[ebon silo]

Y'know I feel like the steel faction is like the descendant to the void civilization because I felt like steel could give void a form of sort or something

[fallow spindle]

The failed foresight can be called a regret

[craggy smelt]

I thought this might be the case for a long time too - less sure now in light of SS steel mode

[fallow spindle]

eva is cool asf lol

[solid badge]

Respawning is 100% a game mechanic, but I guess you could see it as a path which leads to failure.

But foresight no.

PK did have foresight. He did know of an end unstoppable. The big mushroom's remains does 'speak' of an end unavoidable.

[ebon silo]

It might've been the reason the pale king managed to make the kingsmould something because dude the shell looks like steel

[fallow spindle]

y not foresight? when you die you can see hornet waking up from the bench like she realized the path she took was the wrong one

[ebon silo]

This one though

[craggy smelt]

he might've copied the steel clan separately, he took from Weavers and AC - guy was shameless

[fallow spindle]

hornets eyes lol

[solid badge]

Ahh, hah. So every sit at a bench is our character falling asleep and dreaming their way forward. Every failure is waking up from a bad dream.

[fallow spindle]

maybe

i mean you can treat a bed like a bench too in silksong

or we just doze and think of the possabilities

[solid badge]

No no, characters do doze off on benches. 😄

[fallow spindle]

yea

[craggy smelt]

this is the deep lore: when Hornet lies down on her bed and you look at the map, she'll unfold the map to read while still lying down

[obsidian quail]

no way

[jovial pilot]

what mean

[ebon silo]

Yeah I mean come on there's no way the shells aren't steel because he'll when we get the steel dlc I swear

[solid badge]

Deepest lore is Hornet dreaming while her Gramophone is playing the guy reading scripture and performing brutal surgery on an unfortunate bug.

[ebon silo]

Why would TC add that holy shit

[solid badge]

It's done. History will tell why. Can't wait for random interview questions with Will and Ari answering randomer stuff.

[craggy smelt]

is that in the game? I thought it was broken...
anyway, it reads as a monument to the Weaver entombed there
"Sister, spider, husk bound to moss" - the entombed Weaver
"Watch over these bugs born low" - watch over the lesser, non-Weaver bugs
"Raised up by fervour fostered," - the bugs become pilgrims, caught up in the faith of the Citadel
"Born and caught within our web unknowing." - the pilgrims don't realize the Citadel was made by the Weavers

[fallow spindle]

medival doctors be like

its so funny how karmelita's achivement is just called diva even if it makes sense

[solid badge]

Born and caught within our web unknowing.

is about bugs in Pharloom having silk in them and further on in their offspring. Thus the mind control, they are genetically susceptible to it.

[craggy smelt]

that would have come after the Citadel's founding, with the Whiteward experiments and later the Haunting
the Citadel's been described as a 'web' the Weavers created

[solid badge]

Yes, the citadel is a web in which GMS lays captive in a cocoon. Spider prey.

I was more leaning into why all bugs respond to Weaver music, and also take input from GMS' strings. It it by birth that they are already within said web.

[craggy smelt]

that is a thing, but I think the Weaver monument refers more to the system the Weavers put in place, when they were still orchestrating the Citadel
rather than the Haunting that came when everything started going wrong and the Weavers bailed

[shy island]

What was the first sinner’s sin?

[craggy smelt]

I think the specific charge written in the Slab is apostasy

[solid badge]

The system was meant to attract bugs so they can also sing and continue lulling GMS. The haunting is a side effect of the same system.

[shy island]

And what’s that

[craggy smelt]

like rejection of god

[shy island]

Imagine getting sealed a gazillion times because you don’t like god

[craggy smelt]

presumably she's the first Weaver to go against the Grand Mother

[solid badge]

First Sinner gives the Rune Rage ability. Get the feeling that not only did she abandon her worship, but might have been involved in creating GMS' prison. Unfounded guess that Runes and rebelling something something.

Don't take this with any grain of salt honestly, it's probably strictly the apostasy that landed FS in the Slab.

Now I feel bad about eating her again. Who else dons a dress with such style.

[feral inlet]

I felt bad too

First sinner seemed so cool as well

[solid badge]

Karmelita is alright but man, FS does an amazing intro.

[feral inlet]

I wonder how many troops it took to lock her up

I haven’t got to karme yet, can’t wait to see her

I bet she’s very fun knowing how evasive all the other ants are

[solid badge]

I suggest you be evasive while fighting her.

[feral inlet]

I will be, my style is very evasive

I go in and out of fights a lot with run attack-air dash/pogo depending on enemy option

If dash away then prepare for another run attack and repeat of choices

Dashing away allows time for ranged tools as well and to be prepared for dodging anything abrupt

[snow cedar]

it’s almost like everything in the game promotes exactly that fighting style because it’s hornet’s fighting style and it fits her character

[feral inlet]

That’s why I hated gms, I had to fight her like without thag style obviously

[snow cedar]

Except crest of the wanderer

[feral inlet]

I’m using the default creat for my first run it’s fun

[warm tiger]

default is my favorite for consistent use

[snow cedar]

I used hunter for the important sections but wanderer just melts

[solid badge]

Returning to lore stuff - I think there was a record about First Sinner. But I forget its contents. What I do know is that they didn't get the kill, FS was too much. As she'd be worthy of.

[feral inlet]

Any boss tbh that goes against this natural hornet style is troublesome for most casuals i noticed

Beastfly for example

[feral inlet]

Yea I think record was about betrayal?

I’d need to go back and check later

Also I wish we got a number for how many troops it took to lock up first sinner like the numbers for the cages under gms

[solid badge]

Wanderer runs higher risk, higher DPS, good recovery via just refilling Silk fast. Is forgiving for its own habit of landing you into damage by allowing you the Silk to heal a lot.

Beast in its current form seems a bit too gung-ho to work when Wanderer exists.

[solid badge]

Probably shamefully many.

[feral inlet]

Also I love that now I know why herra wanted to mate with the pale king lol

She knew hornet might be attacked this way eventually I bet

Cause iirc in hk herra wanted to mate for the alliance to work right?

[solid badge]

Herrah no longer had a mate. She wanted a successor, and PK needed her and her Weaver brigade to build seals.

[warm tiger]

i don’t think it was really specified she just wanted hornet to be of high birth

[feral inlet]

Mhm that does make sense too

[solid badge]

Herrah's story was all about rising in status. Not without any respect or love for what it took. Her retcon to be a Weaver is strange to me, but... fine I guess, I give up.

[feral inlet]

Because like there were other captured weaver successors in the cages, so obviously others like hornets, children of weavers in other kingdoms prob shown on the map in the weaver nest atla iirc showing paths out of pharloom were captured up

[snow cedar]

Is beast not technically the best in terms of healing

Like
Masks healed

[solid badge]

No, still limited to 3 or 4 masks healed per Fury/Bind.

[snow cedar]

Huh

[feral inlet]

My question tho is citadel is like a area made to keep gms contained right?

[snow cedar]

It’s also occurred to me that beast may be the best crest for races

[feral inlet]

Yea it prob is for face tanking damage races

[snow cedar]

Not damage

The sprintmaster races

[feral inlet]

Oh

[solid badge]

Beast compels you to go overly aggressive. This causes you to take damage. You will almost never take less damage than what Beast recovers for you.

[snow cedar]

Not the easiest but maybe the fastest

Wanderer does the same but gives you ample opportunity to get out of the way if your reaction time is good enough

[solid badge]

Right... and Wanderer is less askew. In fact it's dead easy, with similarly high DPS. Beast Fury gives +25% damage sure, but eh... overly aggressive tendencies bad.

[solid badge]

Yup, precisely this. What about it?

[feral inlet]

So pharloom is just like a giant spider trap isn’t it?

[solid badge]

Some significant part of it yes.

[feral inlet]

So before citadel what was there?

I know verdania and karak exist but besides them

Like Ofc I assume bilewater was clean, but where citadel is was it just like verdania?

Or was it another part of the map?

[solid badge]

Can't think of much reason why most areas didn't already exist. What's special/different is that particular areas fell to ruin due to GMS.

[solid badge]

Probably more like Fleatopia.

[feral inlet]

Yea, but bilewater and duct would be different too, and bellheart is just a collection of bells leftover from citadel? And greymoor was prob not raining like bilewater too?

I’m just tryna see how the map would’ve been before kinda haha, sorry it’s an odd question

[solid badge]

Can't say we have much historical information regarding most areas. 😄

[feral inlet]

It’s what interested me in hk when I first explored it too tryna imagine the map before the fall

[feral inlet]

Ripp

[solid badge]

there are important bits, but you'd know them if you got to the end, so let's not spoil

[feral inlet]

Tyty, I’ll prob be done in 4 days too depending on length of act

I assume another 20 hours ish

[drifting apex]

who wrote this readable? i cant think of anything to make sense of it

[cold axle]

probably a pilgrim that came here and figured out that Holy Shit What The Fuck They're Putting It Inside Themselves

like microplastics, but the scraps of a god's soul

[drifting apex]

oh like the silk experiments in whiteward i see

[dapper willow]

Any ideas for extra areas?
Something you would like to see in game

[whole estuary]

maaaybe yarnaby?

I don’t know what she’d have been doing there though, could’ve been before she went to and was subsequently exiled from bellhart

[solid badge]

A beach area. For once, without gnashing floor, lava, spikes. With a nice breeze rather than a raging dust storm, and a Pina Colada.

[whole estuary]

hornet vacation lol
girl deserves it

[solid badge]

I have fed the mean ground so many times.

[zinc pivot]

Pale Lake

With vog standing guard so kratt stop taking pictures

[solid badge]

Good luck with that. Only thing that'll fix Kratt is being forced into servi-... marriage with Vog.

Big flea as guard dog to the family.

[zinc pivot]

Vog at most would only beat into kratt some sense
Literally

[solid badge]

Vog ... would only beat ... Kratt
Might work.

[whole estuary]

the glowup is crazy

[dapper willow]

Its hard to imagine such an area without a sun or blue sky

[solid badge]

I getcha. Ya need Radiance and Zote's pall upon the skies for the full effect. Is it acceptable to think of Zote as plain blue though?

[zinc pivot]

Why cant it be karaks

[whole estuary]

also her eyes seem to change proportion the most in cutscenes
she looks so full of wonder here

[dapper willow]

Mm
A sandy area with lush blue plants hanging from the ceiling
Its bright and welcoming
There is lots of water and sand pits with spikes under (its more forgiving because you can jump out of the sand)

[ember river]

At some point one must understand that they were less experiments than standard procedure

[versed agate]

Where is this in-game?

[flint wadi]

cutscenes were animated at different points in development so the proportions jump around accordingly

[drifting apex]

in the marrow

[flint wadi]

that being said silksong makes her head better match her sprites in size and her cloak is more vibrant red

[versed agate]

Thanks

[hasty vale]

Do we know if the Mask Maker has unique dialogue if he's unmasked before giving him the liquid lacquer?

[thorny crescent]

Someone lwk slide me silksong

[mortal birch]

Why the fuck did Hornet ||Invade the green princes dream when the shamans never even mentioned him. He asked her to leave she went in anyway, he defends his dream and she MURDERS HIM|| Shit actually pissed me off ||Grief doesn't mean you euthanize him||

Sad people can still ||live wtf||

team cherry what's the message

[versed agate]

Did she really kill him though?

[steep talon]

The message is action adventure genre of games is evil

[mortal birch]

Yes she took his heart

[versed agate]

Oh ok, honestly idr

Also didn't he tell her to leave his head multiple times

[steep talon]

no, I dont think he was aware. He just told her to not disturb the silence

[solid badge]

Green Prince wasn't happy to find Hornet in his mind. He only realized just before their fight, he said that we will not brook the invasion.

[steep talon]

oh yeah, in a dream he realized, forgot about it

but dont think after that he mentions it in real world

[tiny socket]

That’s cause he’s dead

[steep talon]

well, you can die to him in a boss fight and talk again

[solid badge]

Prince had been a bit more than just sad, for a long time. Just about indifferent towards everything. He didn't mind rotting away in a cage*, if you recall. You can let him wail in his agony, sure, that's also a great fate.

[tiny socket]

Dying isn’t canonical even in dream fights iirc

[steep talon]

hmm, maybe. Cant think of other times dialogue changes after dying

[torn lagoon]

is sister of the void true ending?

[steep talon]

prolly

[ebon silo]

Chara did it

[solid badge]

Sister of the Void feels distinctly... not final. It is current true ending, I hope not in the future.

[terse warren]

On one hand yeah on the other at least Hornet is kindly helping him remember his past

[grand bison]

i hope they add an epilogue dlc or something tbh

[craggy smelt]

Act 4...

[solid badge]

At MINIMUM, I want to see Bellhart partying like there will actually be a tomorrow. Though I do want the option to gag Pavo.

[digital hemlock]

holy shit i have a new theory

the radiance stole hallownest's saturation with her defeat

which is why everything in hk is so muted

and everything in pharloom is so saturated and pops out

this also explains why the radiance appears so extra bright in hk when we first fight her

she took all the saturation for herself

[edgy barn]

Why is nobody talking about this massive retcon? Look at her eyes and cloak!

[digital hemlock]

what retcon

[steep talon]

silksong was desaturated in early trailers, similar to HK. They just decided to change, it would be funny though

[edgy barn]

It's a joke about Hornet's slight design changes

[digital hemlock]

hornet's eye became larger from shock as she witnessed the radiance getting defeated thats all

[flint wadi]

elegy of the deep has a special cue for when it can be used so its not unlikely it was felt in-universe by hornet too and caused her to investigate, which is why she peers into his memory to begin with

all of lost verdania is hornet - while prying - helping green prince to piece back the memory of his home, the clover dancers fight and conclusion isnt there to say that "grieving people cant move on and should die"

this conclusion applies to green prince specifically as someone who quite literally is a relic of the past and doesnt want to move on nor cant reasonably achieve that (his whole LIFE was for his lover and home), hornet plucking out his heart allows him to pass at the peak of his memory, dancing alongside his lover

its not a realistic conclusion (that can be applied to people at least), its hopelessly romantic and very fairytale like, but thats kinda green prince's whole thing lol

[versed agate]

Pharloom has better lighting, with like lava and the shining citadel

[torn lagoon]

yeah but what other ending is closer

[digital hemlock]

speaking of which, one thing that bugs me (pun unintended)

is how come the widow looks yellow

while her journal entry clearly shows her not being yellow

[steep talon]

i think they mean, there will be another more canon one in the future

[torn lagoon]

i was also like what the fuck why did you actually kill him 😭

[digital hemlock]

bellvein lighting is messed up

[versed agate]

I think her outfits just dirty

[torn lagoon]

hopefully

anyway where did that put lace and hornet

[edgy barn]

I suppose Hornet dies in Cursed Child. Hard to get more final than that.

[steep talon]

maybe? I mean dnm is still somewhat canon

[solid badge]

None. Which is why I hope that as more content it added, this is no longer the true ending. Like HK's 112%.

[torn lagoon]

also were the void entities in that ending from godhome ending or the radiance one i can't tell

[versed agate]

Godhome void is gone in canon

[steep talon]

people think both are plausible. Though we dont see THK shade in this ending, so godhome ending has like one more small evidence backing it

[versed agate]

Hornet talks about the void being vanished from hallownest by the flower the god seeker had

[steep talon]

oh, when does she mention that?

[torn lagoon]

she does?

[digital hemlock]

I actually think that it doesnt really matter that much which since

[versed agate]

In act 3 when talking to the Shaman about how to fix the miss they made

[digital hemlock]

the void is united either way, it's just the form it took is different in each of these endings

[versed agate]

I believe, idk I could have misinterpreted something

[steep talon]

it matters, cause I want THK to live a happy live now

[digital hemlock]

oh

[steep talon]

she saw the flower in her youth from white lady, which was like bazillion years ago. Dont think she mentions godseeker in any capacity

[torn lagoon]

so uh the flower made the void come to pharloom? or is the void just thing at the bedrock of all lands and it's united

[steep talon]

but eh, ill go to wiki double check just in case

[grand bison]

how did last judge determine who was sinless did they just kill pilgrims based on vibes

[terse warren]

it's to make it ambigous

if we saw THK it would've 100% been DnM, so they don't show it as to make it a toss up between which one of the two

[knotty dome]

Anyone else disappointed the three whispering vault enemies were reduced to enemies and not a triple boss fight?

[lone folio]

its probably just everywhere under the world

[steep talon]

that's also true. Both are plausible, i just lean more towards godmaster

[potent patio]

is this thing a higher being

[torn lagoon]

when is mossbag dropping that video

[digital hemlock]

i dont think so

[torn lagoon]

no cause it don't even talk

[digital hemlock]

just a very big bug

[steep talon]

no, its more like bell beast if anything

[lone folio]

probably not?

[knotty dome]

GMS doesn’t talk

[potent patio]

tbf uun didnt either

[digital hemlock]

presumably its the mother of all the lil driflin

[lone folio]

alot of things dont talk

[terse warren]

the balls?
i think they work as a soul warrior like fight, but i do enjoy the idea that someone had, that they should've dropped a cogfly upgrade that allowed you to turn them into balls after the double fight

[digital hemlock]

since the driftlin needolin dialogue mentions their mother

[torn lagoon]

true but it does to other bugs telepathically or whatever evidentially

[knotty dome]

Balls? Also Cogflies DO NOT need any kind of upgrades

[digital hemlock]

cogwork clapper

[terse warren]

upgrade like the volt thingy has, you can switch it between ball mode and syringe mode

volt vessels

[knotty dome]

I meant the whispering vault exclusive enemies they were supposed to be bosses but reduced to regular enemies

Tc said they were a late game trio covering eachothers weaknesses

[steep talon]

kinda but also, high halls gauntlet is more than enough for me in terms of gank fights

[terse warren]

oh scrollreader

[knotty dome]

Yeah but I would rather have fought a lore rich boss than a gauntlet despite the high halls gauntlet being relatively easy and fun

[versed agate]

Could be just a pale being, and not a full higher being like the palestag and maybe weavers,

[digital hemlock]

also what use did the weavers have for it

[dapper willow]

Sylphsong
Any new theories on what the sylph is?

[knotty dome]

I honestly think everything pale in the games are almost immediately assumed to be kind of godlike despite them not being god like

[digital hemlock]

is it to protect against the cold?

[terse warren]

reminder that palestag might not even be real

[knotty dome]

Probably double jump

[digital hemlock]

but the weavers don't have cloaks

[steep talon]

easy!? But yeah, trio boss could be fun like Mantis Lords. Though they have the same moveset, so I imagine the idea of having different moves that cover each other weaknesses was cool, and then they realized it's actually a shitshow and it's tough designing a boss like that

[versed agate]

I think pale is like divinity, but you can be divine without being a god

[knotty dome]

From the first sinner we can see they can make dresses maybe they use those for the double jumps along with fayforn feathers

[steep talon]

"In the distant past, I knew the flower. My thread still holds its faint memory. If the Everbloom was grasped strongly enough within my Silk, it could be made to manifest."

also this is the dialogue for everbloom from hornet. It doesnt mention godseeker. And line about distant past makes me think more of she saw it in her youth

[digital hemlock]

oh right

[dapper willow]

Forgebrothers is kinda like that

[digital hemlock]

but also I'd assume they dont really need double jumps

[knotty dome]

Wanderers crest trivialises the gauntlet it’s not even funny but if the boss was too hard to make enjoyable while being a unique triple threat I can understand that.

[digital hemlock]

since the two weavers we meet can both jump quite high, and also weavers can climb walls

[radiant smelt]

forebrothers was a really cool duo fight, i wish they had more moves though

[steep talon]

not sure they cover each others weakness that much. Also I think most people dont like forebrothers that much. Also why are they called forebrothers really weird