sk-lore

[lucid fossil]

Grassbag video I’m waiting for u…

[pastel timber]

assumedly the corpses vanish cause they also gave their power to the spell

similar to how the corpses of the shade soul and d-dark shamans disappear, cause you use their power to manifest the spell

[lucid fossil]

oh yeah, they do vanish when stuff like that happens in hollow knight

[rancid violet]

You absorb their juice

Because hollow knight is all about goop

[lucid fossil]

weirddd what the fuck was team cherry thinking when making them what even are they brah i am so confussseeedddd

[pastel timber]

theyre shamans

they play with soul and void cause its fun magic

[lucid fossil]

they’re COMPLETELY black and while black doesn’t always mean void, it’s their entire bodies while other bugs have clear torsos

not even mossbag was able to clear it up 🥺

[rancid violet]

Tbf snails do tend to have a singularly coloured body

[pastel timber]

literally every bug is black except for exoskeletons, shells, things snails dont have, except they do, their shells also arent black

[lucid fossil]

yeah that’s what I meant from torso, aren’t there also void particles in the shade soul room? or am I remembering it wrong

[pastel timber]

all theyre missing is a mask which realistically just sets them apart from the traditional customs of any civilisation, showing us that they live apart from civilisation, because theyre crazy witches in the woods who play with magic for funsies

[lucid fossil]

in the SHELLWOODS 🙀

[rancid violet]

They're just fucked up wizards and witches

[lucid fossil]

is this confirmed! zote originates from pharloom!

[pastel timber]

all wood appears to be shellwood

[lucid fossil]

dem…

[pastel timber]

thats just the name of wood in game i think

[pastel timber]

i'll go check if i can but i doubt it, theres no void near any other shaman

[rancid violet]

Because most natural stuff in game is just made of bugs

[lucid fossil]

imagine finding a vast forest and the locals named it “oak”

or “wood”

[pastel timber]

imagine going to a woods and its called "the woods"

[buoyant wyvern]

Zote Boat confirmed

[rancid violet]

If you go down to the woods today you're sure for a big surprise

[dark rune]

i think it's funny that pharloom has better robots than we have irl

[pastel timber]

there arent any from what i can see from this image of the room i googled

[zinc pivot]

We do have the thing where shamans apparently die after hornet got her everbloom

[pastel timber]

to be fair they are using the souls of the dead to pilot those robots, we need to get on that technology

[zinc pivot]

exhaustion doesn’t seem valid a reason

[dark rune]

you're right
i have direct orders to bring you to Ra

[zinc pivot]

Sounds like a scenario from 86

If you read that LN/watch the anime ofc

[lucid fossil]

Damn 😭

[rancid violet]

It's like those servo skulls of warhammer

[pastel timber]

its like fnaf

[rancid violet]

Fbaf in silksong

[zinc pivot]

Nah fnaf is that weird remnant/agony shit now

[lucid fossil]

yeah i was wondering if they got killed b’coz of the everbloom reacting with them if they were void, but them giving up their bodies for the spell makes more sense to me

[pastel timber]

remnant = weird white ghost goop
soul = weird white ghost goop

[zinc pivot]

With how they value their self preservation i doubt they would make a spell that kills them

[pastel timber]

their choices are death or death at that point

[zinc pivot]

So im leaning on the everbloom erasing them

[rancid violet]

Hallownest is just in a crack in the pavement outside freddy's

[lucid fossil]

it was a very powerful spell and there’s instances of them dying to give a spell in hollow knight, and they were probably going to die anyways

[zinc pivot]

Tbh a kingdom falling to void wouldn’t affect them that much

[pastel timber]

it does if theyre sat inside it

[rancid violet]

Going in the void hurts

Like alot

[lucid fossil]

getting stabbed 50 times from every angle

[pastel timber]

it hurts about the same as being hit by a savage beastfly

[rancid violet]

It does 2 damage like everything else in the game

Not that I'm salty or anything

[pastel timber]

looking over snail shamans dialogue again, chapel maid says this

i really dont think theyre void given they dont think any living thing, which they are, could survive it

they call void their "family's fixations" as well, which sounds more like an interest than an origin

[rancid violet]

I don't think we've really seen anything go into the void and come back out without the help of a blossom

[pastel timber]

besides the knight

[lucid fossil]

maybe mother silk could’ve if she wasn’t busy making a cocoon to save lace

[pastel timber]

who is part void

[pastel timber]

no she was dead and dying, she was never coming out, all she could do was hold on to delay her fate

[lucid fossil]

idk man it’s kinda impressive she managed to weave a wholeass cocoon with all of her silk in minutes…

[zinc pivot]

From Moss Mother it was foreshadowed the strength a mother could muster to protect her kids

[rancid violet]

If anyone could do it, it would be the god of silk

[pastel timber]

its said in game that she could only do that cause she was trying to save her daughter

without lace there she'd have just given in already

[rancid violet]

probably the least selfish thing she's done

[lucid fossil]

i mean she cared a lot about her kids just not her kingdom

[pastel timber]

shows up
ascends some spiders
gets tricked into a coma
wakes up
gets beaten up
dragged into the void
dies

gms had a productive life

[lucid fossil]

W GMS ❤️‍🩹

[rancid violet]

she indirectly helped save hallownest and create her own downfall

[zinc pivot]

Productive but not reproductive

[lucid fossil]

how did she save hallownest again ermmm

hallownest was not saved either it kinds crumble

[pastel timber]

"save hallownest" what even happened there

[rancid violet]

Herrah and Hornet

[pastel timber]

nobody got saved they just killed radiance

[zinc pivot]

I would say she delayed Hallownests end

[lucid fossil]

yeah they didn’t really save hallownest though it still died 🙀

[zinc pivot]

Or delay just enough until Ghost shows up to end Radiance for good

[rancid violet]

I mean if radiance is gone then alot of bugs get their free will back

[pastel timber]

p5 ending being canon but hornet still not remembering her mother implies that the knight still killed the dreamers just for kicks what a bastard

[lucid fossil]

also omg the only thing I don’t like about silksong is that hornet is so nonchalant about her past SHE DOESNT MENTION THE KNIGHT AT ALL!!!

[pastel timber]

im pretty sure theyre all dead

[lucid fossil]

who knows maybe the radiance could be alive heh…

[pastel timber]

if you got kidnapped and then ended the world would you traumadump about the eon you spent guarding your dads corpse

[pastel timber]

lost radiance 😦

[lucid fossil]

also I think the infection started as every bug just dying and THEN being reanimated with infection

[rancid violet]

well she kinda trauma dumps about guarding a dead kingdom

[lucid fossil]

i was moreof hoping a mention of the knight in her journal, not to other people

[pastel timber]

nah that was a motivational speech to herself

[lucid fossil]

This is true…

[pastel timber]

i wish we got an extra journal entry about the shades after the true ending thatd be so peak

[lucid fossil]

Lost Sharpe

[pastel timber]

we'd better go find him

[lucid fossil]

INKNOWWW WHY DOES SHE HAVE TO BE SO NONCHALANT !!!!

Horner PLEAS…

[lucid fossil]

have you guys seen garamond? It’s like he’s… lost…

[brisk thunder]

imagine lost shakra

[rancid violet]

she cant find her maps

[pastel timber]

the people would riot

[zinc pivot]

Sherma almost got lost too

Imagine if he did
(TC we will personally let you relive emu war)

[brisk thunder]

when i first saw sherma, i thought he would become a boss

[zinc pivot]

He kinda is a boss
Of song clave

[pastel timber]

hes a boss hes just on our side 💪

[brisk thunder]

'the song must be hypnotic and he would control other to fight us'

This is what I thought in the first place, and when reaching far field, he was singing, and then when he was not there, the chubby guy attacked hornet, I was like 'oh no it's true!'

But in the end he is just a good boy

[pastel timber]

what if his song was the only thing stopping the pilgrim from being haunted

succumbing to the haunting is described as being "seduced", as if its something you get lured into, like a siren song

maybe shermas prayer song was enough that the haunting failed to entrance anyone listening to it

and thats also how he made it all the way to the citadel

[brisk thunder]

Sherma's song, more powerful than needlolin

[zinc pivot]

Shame that we actually see some bug fell to the haunting without shermas singing

[orchid phoenix]

Greetings has anybody tried to get the pale flower first before doing the Hero's Call mission?

[zinc pivot]

No report on that it seems

I have cope that it can work on garmond

[orchid phoenix]

same

guess gota do another run lol

[glossy sail]

Is there anything ||new we learnt about lifeblood?||

[rancid violet]

its a hardcore drug that makes you aggressive and mutates you

[pastel timber]

kinda? people suspected it was an infectious parasite type thing for a while but its confirmed now

[glossy sail]

I wish we learnt what a tad more on if it ||has anything to do with the abyss cause that huge lifeblood abyss creature has been tugging on my curiosity for a while now||

[pastel timber]

quick theory, void eats soul, lifeblood is not soul its a separate thing, void doesnt eat lifeblood so lifeblood can take root in the abyss

[flint wadi]

well now we know that lifeblood is found everywhere around the world

[knotty dome]

Lorewise how does it get decided that a pilgrim that gets into the citadel of song either becomes an underworker, normal pilgrim that made it or a member of the choir? Also what is the choir and its bugs?

[zinc pivot]

Maybe just super citizen

[pastel timber]

underworkers seem to be separate species almost born into those roles, like an entire lower caste of society kept below the citadel with poor pay and conditions
as for choir bugs theyre pilgrims who get ascended? proficiency with weapons most likely

[neat sandal]

by luck

[flint wadi]

the choir are the citadels servants, the conductors direct henchmen

whether a pilgrim will be sent to the underworks or be assigned a role in the choir is not really known to us

but generally the hunters journal suggests that only capable bugs become choir members

[knotty dome]

The amount of lore from each area is crazily bountiful

Also most if not all pilgrims don’t carry weapons nor have any fighting abilities, it’s only after they get silked when they use their bodies to attack. Maybe they are trained or born into the citadel since every bug feels that urge to breed at some point according to the hunter.

[pastel timber]

pilgrims rest shopkeep (i think) says that carrying a weapon is a sin for a pilgrim

[flint wadi]

^ pilgrims are tested in faith and devotion

by getting through the road the hardest way possible

[heavy falcon]

Just a small detail i noticed. Phantom always looked weird to me, putting her hand on her face, but she was actually holding up her mask so it doesnt fall off.

[knotty dome]

Yeah so no way pilgrims become choir members normally so probably born in the citadel.

[flint wadi]

not necessarily, theyre no longer pilgrims when they get to the citadel

[pastel timber]

theyll just get trained up once they get there

if you watch the hallways in the choral chambers it looks like choir bugs are touring pilgrims around

[flint wadi]

citadel indeed has gone through generations of bugs but whether they came from within it or outside and were indoctrinated is also unknown

[pastel timber]

likely a mix of both

[flint wadi]

yeah maybe

im taking the head positions like conductors are probably related to each other

same for vaultkeep

[pastel timber]

yeah we find baby vaultkeepers in act 3

hunters journal implies theyre born and raised into the role

same as the slab flies

theres a lot of bloodline related classism in the game and thats probably part of its narrative about societies

[knotty dome]

Where is the mossbag citadel lore video

He’s taking his sweet tiMe

[elfin minnow]

is green prince a mantis

[rancid violet]

no he's more of a grasshopper

[knotty dome]

Prolly not a traditional mantis but inspired

[heavy falcon]

I think so? As is the rest of Verdania

[flint wadi]

yeah im getting mantis vibes too

[pastel timber]

he's lurking this channel right now to get his ideas for the video everyone say hi youtube

[elfin minnow]

i thought he was a grasshopper/cricket at first

[twilit current]

I'd love to see mossbag's take on the whole Pharloom timeline

[heavy falcon]

I hope he actually says the judges are bugs because some guy kept insisting they were automatons like, what?? Then he said he'll wait for mossbag to confirm that

[pastel timber]

we literally see baby judge grubs in the steps

[twilit current]

I find it interesting how the lore of Pharloom and the story of Silksong is a lot easier to get into, but it's still a fair mystery to piece together Pharloom's timeline before the haunting

[heavy falcon]

EXACTLY

THE SQUIRRMS!!!

[twilit current]

I felt really bad killing them lol

[pastel timber]

its not much of a mystery its just fuzzy, like things take a lot of time so lots of things were going on at the same time, so you cant really put one after the other

[heavy falcon]

Me too but it was too funny not to laugh when I threw a pimpillo in their hole

[elfin minnow]

wawawawa

[knotty dome]

How smart were the damn architects to make robots that advance

[pastel timber]

monster </3

[twilit current]

I'd say they're two words used to describe the same thing

[knotty dome]

Then there’s the vaultkeepers, snotty bastards

[twilit current]

It's fuzzy and it's a bit of a mystery, either way the timeline isn't entirely clear and you need to spend a decent bit of effort to put the pieces together

[flint wadi]

id say its even muddy when it comes to gms

[twilit current]

The only part I find clear about GMS is the start and the end, we know she uplifted pharlids into weavers and we know she's the cause of the haunting, but everything in between is a little fuzzy

[pastel timber]

i suppose with the first game the story was in the history, whereas with this game most of the events happening are currently happening (see: act 3), so the history of it gets buried in the present

[pastel timber]

we know for sure:

• she arrived to pharloom
• she uplifted the pharlids
• she allowed the citadel civilisation to rise as its monarch
• she was tricked into a slumber
• her slowly waking up causes the haunting

[twilit current]

Is the third one clear?

[pastel timber]

she is very explicitly named its monarch at multiple points

[twilit current]

Well, she was probably around while it was rising, but was she fully awake when the citadel was fully built?

[pastel timber]

she was probably not awake when the last touches of the citadel were put together

but we know the weavenests were built before her slumber

[twilit current]

Where is it named?

[pastel timber]

hunters journal

[twilit current]

I mean, many characters now mention her as the source of the haunting, but I can't remember specific sources that show they know her pre-haunting during the citadel era

[flint wadi]

shes the origin point of pharloom

[craggy smelt]

the Citadel's rise was orchestrated by the Weavers as 'church and cage' for Silk, so it would have been founded after she was bound into slumber

[knotty dome]

Similarity between both games is how they pissed off two deities that created/elevated a species and created a problem that easily could’ve been avoided.

[craggy smelt]

it might have existed in some form earlier, there's mention of the citadel being 'unadorned stone' and similar

[flint wadi]

and now, with the citadel pretty much out of commission, she is indeed its sole ruler

[craggy smelt]

but the Weavers orchestrated the Conductors rise to power, making them think they were taking over

[pastel timber]

its also possible they constructed it while she was awake, but secretly created it as a way to lull her to sleep without her knowing

[knotty dome]

Can all weavers learn those weaver arts like hornet did or were they all like cursed techniques and specific to one weaver. Since hornet needed their corpse to use it.

[craggy smelt]

i got the impression from Widow's cutscene (with the harp-playing Weavers) that they tried to keep Silk bound with their own silk and song
and when they realized it wouldn't work, they brought about the Citadel to perform the same function (silk and song) on a much larger scale
but it might all have been part of the same singular effort

[twilit current]

Yeah, looking at both the conductor and the maskmaker's dialogue, it does look like the bugs were led to think they were taking over from GMS, when really the Weavers orchestrated the whole thing from behind

Although at the same time I'm not sure how that explains the First Sinner, that must have happened after the citadel was fully complete, implying the weavers took over from GMS before they discovered their origins

[pastel timber]

quote 1: conductors saying they snatched rule from the weavers
quote 2: weavers saying they passed rule to the conductors

[twilit current]

Ah that makes sense

[pastel timber]

you might be right actually

[twilit current]

I guess that means GMS was awake when the citadel was already a thing?

[pastel timber]

point of contention right now is:
was the citadel built to lull gms to sleep in the first place
or was it built to keep her in a slumber she was already in

[craggy smelt]

yeah, that rune harp does make it sound like there was an effort before the citadel that the Weavers tried on their own

but they couldn't cut it

[twilit current]

One possible interpretation is that the First Sinner discovered the truth about their uplifting, and was put in jail for it while the other weavers conspired to turn the citadel into a trap for GMS, fleeing afterwards and having the conductors take over

Another possible interpretation is that GMS being trapped and the first sinner discovering the truth + the weavers fleeing + the conductors taking over the job of keeping her trapped are unrelated events that happened at two different points in time

[knotty dome]

How did GMS wake up again and if the bugs were silked how were they able to grab the weavers outside of pharloom (as well as their locations, maybe from the masters help?)

[pastel timber]

i think if we figure out who trapped the first sinner we can figure out when gms fell asleep

[flint wadi]

i think the citadel was already starting to get built in some capacity back then (at least the cradle was), with grandma oblivious to its purpose

[twilit current]

My interpretation is that in the absence of the weavers, the citadel started doing that messed up stuff in Whiteward, causing everyone to be infused by silk and allowing GMS to start the haunting

[knotty dome]

Was first sinner just a corpse or was she alive at that point?

[pastel timber]

nothing lasts forever, her lullaby grew quieter, she started to wake

[pastel timber]

the whiteward stuff didnt cause the haunting, it just made the haunting way easier when it happened

[twilit current]

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say

[pastel timber]

at the point of imprisonment assumedly alive

[flint wadi]

she was dead, the whole fight is framed as a dream sequence

[twilit current]

Basically, GMS was passively exerting influence already and whiteward made it trivial to happen, leading to the haunting

[knotty dome]

I was assuming it was a dream as first sinner leaves you alive I think outside of her cage? Never fought her in steel soul so idk

[knotty dome]

Oh yes I was right nice

[pastel timber]

oh no yeah when you fight her its a dream, shes dead

but when she got imprisoned ages ago she was probably alive

no point imprisoning a corpse after all

[twilit current]

Do you mean that if someone influenced by GMS trapped the First Sinner, it would make the first interpretation of the discovery of the truth leading to the trap and fleeing more likely?

Rather than the second interpretation of the two events being separate

[knotty dome]

Do you die fighting her in steel soul mide?

[pastel timber]

i more mean im seeing two explanations for first sinners imprisonment

first sinner discovers the truth of gms, gms does not like this, orders the other weavers to imprison her for apostasy (abandoning her divine narrative)

first sinner discovers the truth of gms after shes asleep, the other weavers (who placed themselves as deities) see this as a threat to their divine narrative, and so imprison her before the sentiment spreads

[pastel timber]

i dont think so, i didnt die to any of the memories though so i didnt get chance to check

[twilit current]

Ah, my own headcanon is that the first sinner gets put in prison by the citadel bugs or something, perhaps with the rest of the weavers choosing not to interfere or interfering subtly to keep the illusion of the religion, while they themselves plan their escape / trap depending on the interpretation

[pastel timber]

well the chains have seals of bindings on, implying direct weaver intervention

but you might be right it could be a publicity stunt

keep eyes off of them

[twilit current]

I'd imagine it would be a publicity stunt, or at least happened while the weavers were still conflicted about what to do after the discovery and just instinctively put her in prison to continue the show of the weaver religion

[pastel timber]

the exact reasoning behind that one imprisonment would answer a lot for us though

[twilit current]

Then they just forgot about her lol

It would be so funny if that was the reasoning, "oh we were running away and just forgot"

But I guess at the same time, they also would want to keep the illusion of the weaver religion going so the citadel would keep producing song to keep GMS trapped, and freeing the First Sinner would probably go against that

[pastel timber]

thats really where it gets fuzzy

that centre point of the story

first sinners imprisonment and gms's coma

everything else is clear enough

[twilit current]

Ah yeah, it's not entirely clear when GMS falls asleep and how much of the citadel civilisation is due to her direct intervention

[ember musk]

i really think lace freed hornet from the cage, am i alone in this?

[twilit current]

She's controlling butterflies in our first meeting with her, so it's heavily implied

[ember musk]

yeah exactly

[twilit current]

She frees us to kill us out of spite lol

[pastel timber]

definitely not alone, lace is rebellious against gms and has a keen interest in hornet, she might not want her mother to gain hornets "silken strength" like she says in the abyss

[twilit current]

Should have stabbed Hornet while she was down in Moss Grotto

[ember musk]

i think she was hoping hornet would leave after being freed but when seeing she continued on her own tried to kill her before she could reach gms

[twilit current]

Although I suppose she wanted the satisfaction from either besting Hornet in combat or Hornet taking out GMS on her own

[ember musk]

yea exactly what i was thinking

[twilit current]

Or maybe just the former

[pastel timber]

relevant dialogue

[ember musk]

maybe she was hoping to bee seen by her mother if she bested hornet in combat

[twilit current]

Although she chooses not to intervene with you going to the citadel if you skip her first fight in deep docks

[pastel timber]

she hates her mother for creating her, broken, she despises her own existence and by extension the one who brought it about

[twilit current]

I think the final title screen is cool

[ember musk]

i think its a bit more than that, i think her mother was too strict and neglecting by her needolin dialogue in her second fight

[pastel timber]

she has been in a coma for an eon to be fair

[ember musk]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Silksong/comments/1ng5pwh/lace_has_secret_needolin_dialogue_if_you_use_it

[twilit current]

When GMS completely neglects Lace and only decides to finally do something for her when she's literally being dragged into the abyss

The one non-terrible thing she's done lol

[ember musk]

lmao true

[pastel timber]

she was in a coma for an eon and upon waking up immediately had hornet beating the shit out of her to be fair

[ember musk]

still atleast she cared about her more than pk ever did about his children 🔥

[pastel timber]

gms has not been having a good time

[twilit current]

That's true, I suppose complete neglect apart from saving them if they drop into the eternal abyss is better than letting your millions of kids rot in the eternal abyss forever because you thought they were entirely hollow

[flint wadi]

mmmmm pk's guilt over the vessel plan was so great it literally ate him from the inside i wouldnt say so

[pastel timber]

its literally all him and his wife ever talk about

[twilit current]

He did worse things to his children but felt way more guilty about it, lol

[ember musk]

to be fair him and white lady believed it was the only way to save their kingdom

like in the end they still wanted the greater good

[twilit current]

Although I suppose GMS's treatment of her grandchildren and beyond is not exactly a strong sign for her great motherhood

All those many-generation-later weaver children getting captured and brought to the citadel, very warm welcome

[pastel timber]

I forgive them because hornet did <3

[ember musk]

yea not really

[twilit current]

Yeah I don't really fault them because the PK was really just being a little stupid and that was the only idea he had to save his kingdom, and it didn't even work

And well, it's way better than what the soul master did

[pastel timber]

1/8th weaver dying of old age still kills 16 of them

[twilit current]

Soul Sanctum was the Whiteward of HK

But less overt about the body horror

[pastel timber]

Difference is whiteward technically succeeed in the end whereas soul sanctum failed horribly and they all died

[twilit current]

Clearly the message here is that more body horror wins

The soul scholars weren't creepy enough

[ember musk]

atleast sanctum was a place for studying solutions to the infection, whiteward was just how do we make our slaves be slaves even after they die

[twilit current]

Yeah that's true

[stiff cosmos]

Blazing runes and pure vessel connection?

[twilit current]

And to be fair to the PK, it did eventually work, just not in the way he intended

[ember musk]

probably not since the description says exploding runes of silk, not soul but who knows maybe some soul is imbued or something

[twilit current]

One of those "totally hollow" vessels finally figured out how to actually defeat the radiance, and it was definitely not by being hollow

[ember musk]

it was kinda working for a while but he fucked up

[pastel timber]

not really? PV is more of a spore shroom situation where focusing soul results in releasing the energy as an explosion, whereas the blazing runes are silk constructed into magical runes that then explode, like seals of binding

both are using soul to cause explosions, but the methodology is completely different

[pastel timber]

silk is soul in a different form

[ember musk]

though how could he have known? its not like the moths were gonna tell him "yo send yo knights inside my dream trust me fr fr"

[stiff cosmos]

"To weave silk into blazing runes" its probably a common attack that is hard to do with silk

[twilit current]

From a more charitable perspective, he was pretty close to getting it, the void was indeed the solution to the radiance

He just had to create a dream warrior strong enough to destroy the radiance in the dream realm instead of attempting to contain the radiance in the mind of one of those vessels

[pastel timber]

we did NOT figure that out the knight canonically was just wandering around killing everything in sight with hornet nudging it towards the abyss to get voidheart

how hornet figured it out? god knows

[ember musk]

and he almost did, pure vessel wouldve been perfect for the task

[twilit current]

Imagine if he talked to the seer and she was like "yeah now just give this guy the dream nail and watch them get to work" lol

[flint wadi]

she had hundreds of knights come her direction she likely had time to ponder about it

[ember musk]

been a sentinel to the decaying hallownest for a very long time, she mustve seen shit

[flint wadi]

the knight isnt really that different from other vessels its just a tad bit more capable because they braved through howling cliffs

[twilit current]

And the knight managed to get the void heart, kinda important

[pastel timber]

yeah but really how does hornet figure out "unifying the void and entering the hollow knights dream will let it summon the void to destroy the radiance" like damn girl

[twilit current]

Or did the god tuner stuff depending on whether you prefer the dream no more or embrace the void ending

[flint wadi]

white lady was there, she likely shared her understanding of the void

[pastel timber]

seer too perhaps

[ember musk]

hmm seer did give our knight the dream nail i could see her giving it to the pale king, wonder why that didnt happen since the moths DID join hallownests kingdom, it wouldve been in their best interest

[twilit current]

Hornet's not stupid about the void unlike the PK lol

[knotty dome]

Oh shit fr? Canonically the knight doesn’t know about the greater scheme of things and just happened to coincidentally pull off godlike feats?

[flint wadi]

its unknown what goes on in knights head

[twilit current]

Tbh I feel like I was canonically the knight in my first playthrough, just randomly walking around and oh I defeated the radiance

[pastel timber]

the knight gets "drawn towards" the black egg temple, shown in game by the marker on the map, but like the whole point is the knight is meant to be as close to "mindless" as possible, its just doing things

[twilit current]

(I did google how to get the true ending for HK though)

[ember musk]

after the void heart he obviusly knows the greater picture but before that im not sure

[pastel timber]

yeah exactly this is the canon playthrough

[flint wadi]

tbf all vessels were drawn back into the kingdom likely to awnser thks call

[twilit current]

The insane thing is that Hornet reveals so much lore in her dialogue, I wonder how much more she knows but isn't saying because she never brings it up in dialogue with other characters

[knotty dome]

Does unifying the void meaning genuinely controlling it or just soothing it in a way?

[pastel timber]

there is ZERO reason for the knight to go kill flukemarm and yet it does

[knotty dome]

He knew he had to kill it just by looking at it

[ember musk]

i think its in a hive mind kinda way

[pastel timber]

its hard to tell what unifying the void actually means, all we know is it stops it being aggressive towards you, and it means the entire void collective follows you into battle against the radiance

[ember musk]

to prove he was not allured 🔥 hes stronger than that 🔥

[flint wadi]

vessels dont have a gender

its like, a plot point LOL

[ember musk]

yea ik dw

just how it came out

[pastel timber]

i saw someone use he on the radiance the other day, they were doing a "lore recap" too 😭

[twilit current]

Maybe the PK was just a bit disconnected from his subjects and he never knew that was an option, which would be hilarious

The solution was right there the whole time

[pastel timber]

but yeah thats why the knight killed flukemarm aroace king thing 🗣️ 🔥

[flint wadi]

aroace monarch

[ember musk]

well i mean he did leave society for a very long time to study solutions and focus on the work and allat

[wind olive]

Hornet had her soul removed sometime between HK1 and HK2. Silksong hornet is an imposter/skinwalker of some sort. There is not a single shaw in the ENTIRETY of silksong.

[knotty dome]

I mean like that’s the only instance that has happened. Void following you to fight a higher being, well hornet doesn’t unify the void tbf

[twilit current]

The knight is me fr

[pastel timber]

hornet silksong... is void????

[wind olive]

matpat says so

[pastel timber]

we see the void "unified" three times, DNM ending, p5 ending, and silksong true ending, in all cases it seems that the entire collective void is "behind" the knight, metaphorically and literally

[flint wadi]

karama >>> shaw

[ember musk]

we dont talk about that video

[pastel timber]

she doesnt want to be like her father she gave up buzz shaws

[wind olive]

I'm going to shawt myself

[ember musk]

shit aside im actually sad we dont get a white palace in this game 😭

[twilit current]

I want path of pain in silksong

Everyone keeps calling every small platforming section path of pain but nothing compares to the real thing

[ember musk]

same 😭

EXACTLY WHAT IM SAYING

[pastel timber]

the game as a whole was much more platforming focused than the first game was, so it never needed a dedicated platforming section, i do hope we get a path of pain type gauntlet in a dlc though

[twilit current]

Also, I'm not sure if this is a hot take, but I had way more fun with path of pain than the main white palace

[ember musk]

dude the platforming in this game would be INSANE WITH ALL THE MECHANICS WE HAVE but all we get is mount fay 😭

[pastel timber]

the surface climb too

[flint wadi]

mt fay is awesome though

[wind olive]

It's hard to make the platforming as hard with how many movement options are available.

[ember musk]

same lol some white palace stuff is just 😭

[twilit current]

Path of pain felt just like celeste with the retriable levels while white palace just felt like boring ultraprecision platforming

[knotty dome]

But that’s all cus of the knight yes?

[twilit current]

Give me a longer lava climb sequence please, the two we have in the game are too short

[pastel timber]

yeah cause the knight got voidheart and unified the void

[amber bridge]

I never did (or ever will) do Parh of Pain, but I am willing to give a Silksong equivalent a try, cuz Hornet‘s skill and movements fell so much better

[twilit current]

That's very true, they'd have to focus a lot on vertical movement because Hornet's horizontal movement is OP

Which is what the surface climb focuses on, to be fair

[pastel timber]

or just get creative, the jumps in surface are all copy pasted but the horizontal movements where you have to clawline then wings to get under and around to the other side of a platform are so fun to pull off

[ember musk]

you should do pop honestly its really fun

[knotty dome]

Also there’s at least 3 instances of a bug unifying the void yes? Or implied at least; with one guaranteed

[wind olive]

Is the void really unified though? Why would hornet need the flower in the first place if that were the case.

[pastel timber]

dream no more ending
p5 ending
sister of the void ending

[twilit current]

Even though I greatly prefer Silksong's movement, I feel that path of pain is well designed with HK's movement

[knotty dome]

It will probably be harder due to her movement

[twilit current]

And I did PoP after finishing silksong, so I was getting used to the knight having way more limited movement than Hornet

[pastel timber]

not all the void is unified, just the collective shades of the siblings by the looks of it, so the wild tentacles still attacked her

[knotty dome]

I meant individual bug not that mb

[amber bridge]

I‘ve tried it few times but never got past the first segment and I am too aggressive and impatient lol. I fear It‘ll never see the light of day anymore

[twilit current]

Imo the first section is the second most annoying in the whole PoP

The only one more annoying than the first section is the last section

[wind olive]

What's special about that though? Wouldn't the tentacles themselves be considered "unified void" because it takes the shape of tentacles?

[amber bridge]

Definitely but I believe it‘ll be lowkey more fun due to the variety of movements

[pastel timber]

whats probably going on is that "unified void" isnt a thing, when they talk about "unifying the void" in hallownest they just mean unifying the shades of all the siblings, whereas the tentacles arent unified theyre just void given form, the form of tentacles

[knotty dome]

There’s like 50 path of pain no sugar versions in silksong, so you can practice on those meanwhile

[twilit current]

I think blasted steps has pretty fun platforming, particularly the Last Judge runback everyone hates for some reason

[wind olive]

So I guess the real question is what makes some void different from other void? Why is some void given shape able to have a will, while others do not?

[knotty dome]

Genuinely wasn’t annoying takes like half a min at most

[twilit current]

LJ runback is the one runback I'll defend in both games, that platforming was actually pretty fun

[amber bridge]

yeah I‘ve done all of them (am at 100% w all mementos) imo it‘s mostly because I‘m now so used to Hornet‘s movements that I feel like going back to Knight‘s is gonna feel different (obv). Imma still wait for the DLC

[pastel timber]

we simply dont know why the shades retain a will, somehow the pale king created complex life within the void, more than an aggressive lashing out towards any soul, and we have zero clue why this happens when all we're told about void is that it destroys any form of life

[pastel timber]

i went back to hk after like 100 hours of silksong and it felt so weird, lightweight and stale, then after doing more hk i went back to silksong and hornet felt really heavy

[knotty dome]

Can someone list all the higher/plae beings? As well as any gods in general?

[twilit current]

Fighting HK bosses really makes HK's movement system feel incredibly limited compared to silksong

[knotty dome]

Wdym heavy?

[twilit current]

I keep thinking "wow I could sprint and jump through the air and backflip and diagonal pogo and zoom and float and clawline if I was Hornet"

[wind olive]

Likely caused by the lack of momentum the knight has compared to hornet.

[pastel timber]

pale king
white lady
radiance
unn
nightmare heart
abyss lifeblood beast (debatable, not confirmed)
grand mother silk

[amber bridge]

We still don‘t know the full origin and extent of the Snail Shaman, right? Not that they‘re void but the Hermit looks like he‘s dripping void or it‘s different.

[pastel timber]

she has way more momentum

[amber bridge]

Otherwise that constitutes as void being capable of npc thought and will, but schamans arent void no?

[pastel timber]

i was talking about this earlier im 100% sure that the snail shamans are not void, theyre just a lineage of bugs with an interest in the void and soul magic

[knotty dome]

Honestly life blood looks more like another version of the infection albeit hidden with benefits so wouldn’t be surprised if it is a god

[twilit current]

I'm still amazed Hornet is a nice person considering she's half Weaver and half Pale Being

And had a tough upbringing

[knotty dome]

And somehow became a source for spells using their corpses like in hk and silksong. Twisters and Groal respectively

[pastel timber]

that one talk with her mother in red memory made all the difference

[wind olive]

Especially considering they seem to have will and are susceptible to void in the same way as other creatures.

[pastel timber]

assumedly you can use their inherent power to form spells, one of the arguments for them being void is that they explode into d dark and shade soul, but i think thats just you absorbing their power and knowledge to manipulate your internal void into those spells, and thats why they die after red memory too, cause they expended their own power to cast the spell

[twilit current]

To be fair, all 3 queens had the same wish for Hornet, they just went about telling her by different ways

[knotty dome]

Oh yes can someone explain how the knight was able to infuse his spells with his void being? Snail shaman said smth abt his essence being fused with spells?

[terse warren]

The tentacles stop attacking you if you have Void Heart in HK 1

[pastel timber]

the tentacles in hk 1 have shades in them if you look closely no?

[wind olive]

A better question would probably be how the knight is able to use spells without infusing it with void.

[pastel timber]

focuses soul using its divine shell

[terse warren]

No? They look exactly like skong tentacles

[ember musk]

i mean with the influence it has on wormways and zalgo id say its akin to any other higher being

[amber bridge]

ok just wanted a confirmation because the hermit‘s animation and their overall disappearance after red memory threw me off a little bit

[pastel timber]

really? i swear i some shades in those thrashings

[knotty dome]

Hornet honestly did not treat them as good as they deserved, sure they did cause the abyss to rise but they still used their own life to possible stop it

[terse warren]

There are some eyes, but they are also there in Silksong tentacles

[pastel timber]

oh youre right youre right

[terse warren]

She only treated em bad before it gave their own life lol

[pastel timber]

who knows what voidheart does then

[knotty dome]

Tbf there’s possibly only a few other characters other than the knight to posses akin to it

[wind olive]

Does the knight have a soul to focus though? One would think no considering you have to kill things to get soul. That means that kingsoul is an actual literal soul though if the previous statement is true lmao

[pastel timber]

kingsoul is a charm, seeps out soul constantly cause its made from the union of 2 pale beings, which are linked to soul

[wind olive]

The soul has to come from somewhere though, no?

[pastel timber]

yeah it comes from god magic

pale king is like

the god of soul

[wind olive]

and buzzsaws

[pastel timber]

not literally but hes very heavily linked to it

[pastel timber]

characters besides the knight can unify the void?

[knotty dome]

We know which of those hornet inherited

[knotty dome]

Yeah the knight wasn’t the only one

Implied anyways

[pastel timber]

?

[twilit current]

I love how Hornet can become a walking white palace with the buzzsaws, tacks and cogflies

[knotty dome]

Jinn compared the knight to her masters after it got the void heart and saying they’d be impressed so this was something that happened before

[pastel timber]

ohhh right yes true

[knotty dome]

We REALLY need steel dlc maybe confirmed basically since steel assassin sharpe is a backer character

[wind olive]

So why didn't the pale king throw the OG hollow knight into the void ocean a la grand mother silk after the hollow knight held the radiance?

[pastel timber]

wait thats a great question actually

[twilit current]

Maybe he just didn't know that void could consume higher beings or something idk

[pastel timber]

maybe he cared too much about his kid at that point

[twilit current]

Which would be kinda weird, I feel like that's not a difficult conclusion to come to

[terse warren]

I mean all higher beings seem to be, consider soul is, well, life essence itself

[twilit current]

Or maybe dropping THK into the void wouldn't actually kill the radiance in the dream realm, so even if he did that, nothing would happen

[knotty dome]

I mean yeah despite voids seemingly destructive properties only thing he did was ironically create so he probably didn’t know

[terse warren]

Because THK would've just died and Radiance, due to not having a physical form, would've been freed

[twilit current]

Pale King was kinda stupid lol

[pastel timber]

we know that the pale king and gms are, white lady too assumedly
the others are all linked to dream essence, which might be another form of soul? maybe? given dream nail and ghosts composed entirely of essence all give soul when hit?

[wind olive]

That's the point though, to free it inside the void so that it is consumed.

[terse warren]

Pale King was pretty smart, and literally had future sight

He was just given an impossible problem to solve

[pastel timber]

how do you stop the sun from rising

[twilit current]

Well yeah, he did the best knowing what he knew

It's just fun to clown on him thinking the vessels were hollow and that void could be twisted to do his bidding

[knotty dome]

By shoving it in one of your kids ofc

• Pale king

[terse warren]

It doesn't have a physical form. It resides in the memories of people, if it was freed it wouldn't even have had to escape

[pastel timber]

hollow knights message: you cannot stop the sun from rising
silksongs message: capitalism is bad

[terse warren]

Void was damn well twisted to do his bidding

Kingsmoulds work perfectly

He just didn't know the void could have emotions

[zinc pivot]

Isnt the hollow knight message darkness isn’t always bad

[terse warren]

Message of both: nothing lasts forever

[pastel timber]

youre totally right i see what youre saying btw, it lives in the dream realm, taking it out of the hollow knights head wouldnt dunk it in void itd let it free through the dream realm to other heads, like we see in the bad ending once thk explodes the radiance is freed in a non physical form (before we immediately re-seal it)

[terse warren]

Yup

[terse warren]

No not really

[twilit current]

Yeah, void can be twisted to do your bidding, and it turns out it really doesn't like it when you do that

[wind olive]

I was under the assumption that the reason that pale beings are susceptible to void was because it does more than devour the physical aspects. I thought void ate the very being and essence of creatures, making dream essence and non physical beings vulnerable. Otherwise how would the shade lord kill the radiance?

[terse warren]

Both games are pretty clearly about how nothing can last eternal, Void being an exception as it is the representation of death

[terse warren]

The Kingsmoulds are still defending White Palace I don't see them being angry at all

[pastel timber]

void eats soul thats all we're told

[zinc pivot]

I wonder why was pale king bothered with wingsmould

[terse warren]

Pale King didn't die by the Void, he died for grief if not killed himself

[pastel timber]

its a very soulslike theme for them to follow

[zinc pivot]

Was he having fun

[knotty dome]

Lore reason why eternal bloom ward off the void? While literal pale gods get devoured by it?

[twilit current]

Well sure I guess, you can interpret it as "void can be controlled and tamed sometimes", but I prefer the interpretation that void is naturally hostile to anyone doing anything with it and messing with it is a recipe for trouble if you don't know what you're doing

[pastel timber]

are you sure? there is void in his room i figured he got slowly poisoned from exposure, going mad as his mind rotted from the inside, repeating his final regrets as his being was consumed utterly

[terse warren]

It's just what it does

[knotty dome]

If void is the only eternal thing how can bugs be revived in the citadel? Or was it just a metaphorical thing

[twilit current]

Yeah that's how I interpreted it

[pastel timber]

then again "consumed by his regrets" does also mean hollowed out by void

[wind olive]

Pale beings are likely more resistant than most. Even the flower just stalls for time.

[terse warren]

None of the Void is touching him

His might is too strong for it to do that

And his shell is completely intact

[pastel timber]

and yet its completely hollow

[terse warren]

Oh that's just GMS puppeteering them

[pastel timber]

the love key bug died to void, its shell is completely intact

[terse warren]

It has tears running down PK doesn't even have that

[pastel timber]

ok true

[knotty dome]

Before the silking tool place

Bugs can be revived by silks

In white ward

[pastel timber]

honestly i like the idea of "his regrets killed him" being a double entendre for both his grief and the insidious presence of void being what killed him

[twilit current]

So is your interpretation that the pale king was great at controlling the void, it's perfectly fine to control the void, and he just wasn't aware of its higher properties?

[terse warren]

He only wasn't aware that it had emotions, which is very reasonable

[terse warren]

It's supposed to be representative of people trying to extend their life unnaturally by any means necessary

[wind olive]

I think the moral of the story is that there is no controlling the void, or other primal forces of nature. Even by a pale being.

[twilit current]

That's a fair interpretation, I much prefer the danger interpretation silksong seems to be leaning towards, but I think you can make that interpretation fairly

[pastel timber]

its a very fundamental mistake though, he sought something truly hollow and it turns out it wasnt that at all, void is something else entirely

[twilit current]

Yeah I vastly prefer that interpretation myself

[knotty dome]

I don’t think he could control it just use it in a way. Since from the what has transpired it def does not look like he could control it

[terse warren]

Well yeah but again

Problem with no solution

[twilit current]

Yeah, I was just trying to figure out what Aubergine Parmesan's interpretation of the void was

[knotty dome]

No it says in one commandment a bug refuses to revive

[terse warren]

This was the way to ensure Hallownest would last the longest

[pastel timber]

i think he did a good job honestly

[terse warren]

Yeah that still falls under the umbrella

[pastel timber]

im a pale king apologist

[wind olive]

I think it's clear now that void given shape isn't hollow, considering the shade lord's existence and the end of act 3 in skong

[terse warren]

The Knight was never hollow

[pastel timber]

none of them were

[terse warren]

The void itself isn't hollow

[knotty dome]

Wait shit that still counts as unnaturally extending a bugs life mb

[terse warren]

Np

[twilit current]

The void just exists and is naturally hostile to anything trying to get close to it or mess with it

[pastel timber]

it clearly has something of a will if it actively seeks out and consumes soul, forms itself into tentacles, even creates void mass nexuses to void nearby creatures

[pastel timber]

you can throw a rock in just fine it eats soul which every living thing is made of so if youre alive it will try to eat you

[wind olive]

What if what was holding the radiance off wasn't the fact that the OG hollow knight was close to hollow, but the fact that it was a creature of void?

[knotty dome]

Is the void giver form a god or was godseeker just doing her usual god labelling

[wind olive]

Does being hollow even matter theoretically?

[pastel timber]

theoretically a truly hollow vessel would be able to contain the radiance, but thats a completely unattainable goal

[twilit current]

I mean, the theory was that the radiance took control of a bug's will, so if a bug with no will could be created, the Radiance could be imprisoned permanently in such a bug's mind and not influence other bugs

[knotty dome]

The pale king didn’t realise that nothing sapient could be 100% hollow

[pastel timber]

what makes something a god if not being labelled as such by a worshipper

[twilit current]

But it turns out that that's not possible, which yeah, lol

[knotty dome]

Well I mean compared to them higher beings

[wind olive]

Would it though? We don't really know how the radiance spreads the infection as far as I'm aware.

[pastel timber]

who can say

[pastel timber]

we do its through dreams

[twilit current]

Who knows, the Pale King was just trying the best idea he could think of

[knotty dome]

[wind olive]

But would it being stuck in a creature with no will stop it from spreading dreams to others? It doesn't really make sense how that would work.

[pastel timber]

fact of the matter though is that it did

the hollow knight managed to contain the radiance and the infection for a while, before it started to fail

then at that point the knight was drawn back to hallownest to fix it for some reason

[twilit current]

Maybe those magic bindings did it somehow

[knotty dome]

Which confirms that being 100% hollow could contain the radiance as the hollow knight was 99% hollow (not rlly 99%)

[wind olive]

But we don't know why that worked. I feel like it's probably just as likely that it was because the void inside kept the radiance at bay.

[knotty dome]

Nah it still escaped from the black egg despite being sealed

[pastel timber]

i mean yeah the void is a very key part of this plan nobodys denying that

[twilit current]

Yeah, makes sense

[pastel timber]

void is the power opposed its what theoretically could let a vessel be "hollow"

if dreams are linked to soul, and void eats soul, then isolating the radiance within a void vessel would stop it from infecting it

but as it turns out void is not that simple, so the plan failed

[knotty dome]

What was the significance of the hollow knight looking up at the pale king scene?

End of pop

[pastel timber]

it was developing affection for its father, thereby becoming not hollow

[twilit current]

It's also showing the Pale King's affection for THK

[wind olive]

But void isn't hollow to begin with evidently

[knotty dome]

The pale kings first mistake was being mortal in a way instead of being a disconnected god originally

[pastel timber]

yeah and that "sealed memory" is proof of that

its just how it was first conveyed to us the players

[pastel timber]

the pale kings biggest mistake was not being a shittier father

[twilit current]

As if sealing millions of his children in the abyss wasn't bad enough already lol

And being an absent father to Hornet

[pastel timber]

he was doing her a favour there

[wind olive]

I still don't get why he didn't just straight up kill the radiance with void when it's shown that you can do that, and he had the power of foresight.

[cinder storm]

I just realized: isn't it likely that Hornet's love for huge and soft things originated from when she was living in the Hive?

I mean, just at the bees. Why wouldn't it?

[twilit current]

Yeah probably true lol

[twilit current]

And her envy for bugs with wings and deadly tools

[wind olive]

Actually a really solid theory lol

[pulsar owl]

||what is deepnest (SORRY HK LORE CHANNEL IS Dead||

[pastel timber]

deepnest is where the spiders live

[twilit current]

And giant worms

[pastel timber]

thats about it tbh

[pulsar owl]

Tysm

[twilit current]

And there's a random hot spring there for some reason

[knotty dome]

Funny how it’s usually being not being a good father as the mistake

[pastel timber]

deepnest is a place on the edge of hallownest outside of the pale kings domain, it governs itself, and its full of creepy crawlies

[pulsar owl]

Is there any boss in it

[wind olive]

deepnest was a separate kingdom before it became "annexed" by hallownest

[pastel timber]

yes

[pulsar owl]

What's it called

[pastel timber]

cause hindsight is 20/20 but foresight is not

[wind olive]

deepnest

[pulsar owl]

The boss

[twilit current]

Was deepnest ever annexed by Hallownest? I thought it always remained independent

[pulsar owl]

Is there no boss at deepnest?

[wind olive]

there's at least one

[pastel timber]

there is a wiki if you just want answers like this btw

asking a discord channel is way less likely to get you useable or timely answers

[twilit current]

Especially the silksong lore channel

[pulsar owl]

1more question

[pulsar owl]

sorry but hk lore is dead

[twilit current]

But a boss isn't lore, it's just gameplay

[pastel timber]

theres also #hk-help and #hk-discussion

[twilit current]

Unless you're asking about the lore of the boss in deepnest

Which I actually don't know really well, I should take a look at that

[pulsar owl]

oh

[pastel timber]

the deepnest boss lore is quite interesting tbf but that is for the hk lore channel

[pulsar owl]

NOOOO

:/

[flint wadi]

bro just typing shit

[bronze wolf]

What's the deepnest boss again?

[twilit current]

If you just want to know if there's a boss in deepnest and how to beat it, there's those channels listed here

[pastel timber]

nosk

[bronze wolf]

Ah nosk

Right

[wind olive]

nosk has fewer attacks than the average citadel enemy lmfao

run jump spit

[pastel timber]

i love silksong

[bronze wolf]

Ceiling rumble too

[wind olive]

that's basically just spit but without the lingering hitbox

[twilit current]

The funny thing is that I didn't know how to beat him when I went back to try and play HK

I could beat so many other HK bosses no problem but had no idea what to do with him so I just decided not to beat him (in godhome) lol

[wind olive]

isn't there some corner you can stand in to not be hit by most of its attacks 💀

[twilit current]

Yeah that's how I beat him in the main game

So I had no idea what to do in the pantheon

Or was it ascended difficulty

[bronze wolf]

Yeah only in easiest mode, not the harder ones

[twilit current]

Either way, they remove the slightly elevated platform

[twilit current]

I know some people hate that the enemies in silksong are smarter, but I love it

They're so much more fun and dynamic to fight

[pastel timber]

they feel specifically designed for hk veterans to have a real challenge

like imagine stepping into silksong and the enemies just slowly meandre towards you

[twilit current]

So many enemies in HK do that, it's crazy

[pastel timber]

they gave them complexity to keep it interesting and it works perfectly

[twilit current]

And it makes the few enemies in the game that do do that interesting

I love the little plant guys in far fields and they would have been much less interesting if every area had an equivalent

[pastel timber]

like it can get annoying time to time especially with dashing flying enemies but the complexity is 100% a good thing

[wind olive]

to be fair, the average person got violated by gruzmother during their first playthrough and there are normal enemies in greymoor harder lmao

[twilit current]

And the surface bugs that kinda just chill are really cute and are so distinct from all the smart enemies in Pharloom

Speaking of which, I wish I saw more surface bug love, they're so cute with their little noises and scuttles

[pastel timber]

i feel like if you got violated by gruz mother and did not improve then silksong may not be designed for your skill level

[wind olive]

There are a large number of people who started with silksong

[twilit current]

Funnily enough, I had an easier time with silksong first time than HK first time

[pastel timber]

which is a shame cause you really shouldnt start with silksong, its designed in difficulty to be a step up from hk

[twilit current]

Very few bosses in silksong gave me as much trouble as bosses in HK on my first playthrough

[twilit current]

I feel like silksong does have its own distinct difficulty and skills to learn, so it's not so bad to start with it first, especially after the early game patches

[wind olive]

Other than attempting to beat savage beastfly at the earliest possible time, and getting clapped by the two choir clappers I didn't really struggle at all with skong. In HK I got rekt by absrad for a bit but that's it.

[pastel timber]

its still a huge step up in complexity

[twilit current]

But yeah, the difficulty curve is a lot steeper than HK, particularly in act 1

[pastel timber]

lost lace had me take like 8? attempts

and that was the most of any boss

[twilit current]

I still can't beat absrad lol

I tried her and gave up pretty quick

[wind olive]

Beastfly unironically took me 3x the attempts of lost lace

[pastel timber]

im still triyng to do p5ab i didnt manage to get it before silksong drops and now im rusty </3

[pastel timber]

i took one attempt thought "fuck this" and came back way later it was so much more bearable

[twilit current]

Lost lace was a hard fight for me, I think she took the most attempts out of any boss

Apart from maybe Lace 2 and Karmelita

[wind olive]

lmao I wish I had done that

[pastel timber]

she is tough but its so fun

[drifting elbow]

HEY YALL I CAN FINALLY BE HERE. I FINISHED IT AAAAAAA. IT WAS SO GOOOOOOOOD. ||THE KNIGHT HELPED US OUT||

[twilit current]

Yeah, she's a really cool bossfight, I love it

[pastel timber]

WOO WELL DONE!!!!!

[drifting elbow]

IT WAS SO GOOOOOOOD AAAA THANK YOU ||KNIGHT||

[twilit current]

Her moveset is so engaging with the way she combos together moves at lightning speed and I love the more intense phase 2 with the swelling music

[pastel timber]

i was freaking out at my screen for ages after seeing that i couldnt believe it

[drifting elbow]

I also got ||Mr. Mushroom|| ending lol. What was that about

[pastel timber]

to be continued

third game soon whos hyped

[wind olive]

I kind of wish that the big void waves came with some platforming or using the clawline for something but other than that, fight was amazing

[twilit current]

I like how we actually get to see Hornet talk to Mr Mushroom this time

[twilit current]

Ooh, puzzle mid fight crosscode style, I like it

Bet many people would hate it though

[drifting elbow]

100% completion babyyyy

I can’t wait for Mossbag to explain everything I missed lol

[twilit current]

Time to wait for like 3 years lol

[wind olive]

Zote v Sherma, who wins

[drifting elbow]

I’m dreading the godmaster like dlc of this game holyyy

[pastel timber]

mossbag is lurking this channel rn looking for ideas say hi youtube

[twilit current]

I'm looking forward to it, there's so many absolute peak bossfights I want to revisit in silksong

[drifting elbow]

I bet they’re going to give us two savage beastfly in the same arena with mobs lol

[twilit current]

The bossfight roster in silksong is so stacked and I love it

[wind olive]

we all know this is coming in a dlc

[drifting elbow]

Hi mossbag, if you’re here lol

[drifting elbow]

💀

[twilit current]

Bile Beastfly

Why does team cherry like the beastfly so much

Of all the bosses to get a round 2, why that guy

[wind olive]

I'm convinced that it was entirely designed to troll the playerbase

[drifting elbow]

Imagine if we get the Mother Beastfly with savage beastfly as mobs

[twilit current]

That being said, they gave tons of amazing versions of round 2 fights, so I forgive them for savage beastfly 2

[drifting elbow]

💀

[twilit current]

As long as they don't do lost unraveled I'm fine

[pastel timber]

lost gpz

[ember musk]

i found these dialogues btw pretty peak

[wind olive]

imagine both beastflies mantis lords style

[twilit current]

People wanted duo fights, and now they're getting them

[pastel timber]

"cursed to know the truth" is interesting, i wonder if they got driven mad by it

[ember musk]

duo fights in this game are good, dark souls duo fights... dont get me started bro

[twilit current]

I still don't get why I like enraged conchfly way more than savage beastfly even if they're relatively similar

Maybe it's just something about the beastfly's movement being weird and slow and the beastfly's hitbox being enormous

[wind olive]

My thoughts are that she was the first being other than gms to produce silk. You can see in the cutscene her turning into a weaver, making her likely the first weaver, and therefore the first sinner.

[pastel timber]

oh yeah she was definitely the first of the weavers, i got that impression at least

[twilit current]

Now we just need to know who called her the first sinner

[pastel timber]

the entire timeline gets snapped into place if we answer this

[twilit current]

Or maybe team cherry will keep that from us so the mystery of when GMS fell asleep will remain unclear

[pastel timber]

on my way to adelaide to steal the lore bible

[twilit current]

Or maybe it'll happen in DLC, who knows

They could reveal that in some offhand dialogue by a DLC character

[wind olive]

so we have first sinner, second Sentinel, third ???? and fourth chorus

[twilit current]

Third Lace lol

[pastel timber]

third moss mother

[twilit current]

Me when I'm somehow getting destroyed by two of the literal tutorial boss together

[wind olive]

moss mother got hands

she doesn't, but you know

[twilit current]

I found that boss unexpectedly fun

I didn't expect just having two of the tutorial boss would be interesting

[pastel timber]

slightly less annoying than duo vengefly king

[twilit current]

Oh way more fun than double vengefly king, that was so boring

[wind olive]

I have a distinct feeling dlc1 will be tied to wispthicket

[pastel timber]

oh?

[twilit current]

I just really want godhome or a godhome equivalent

An epilogue to the story would be nice too, although I doubt they'd do that

[pastel timber]

there is a nice big gap there for team cherry to hide something behind a breakable wall (as they do with any dlc content)

[twilit current]

Wormways DLC

We fight the lifeblood higher being in act 3 or something idk

Coral Kingdom DLC would be cool

[wind olive]

It's also the most unfinished area I felt. But as it was left in, I'm betting more is going to happen with it.

[pastel timber]

its not unfinished, its lore relevant

[twilit current]

One thing that would have been cool is more traces of crust king Khann's rule spread about half of Pharloom

[pastel timber]

greymoor used to all be wisp thicket before the citadel repurposed it to be silk recycling

[wind olive]

but that's basically all it is right now

[pastel timber]

plus its content, a boss, a tool, some goodies, is the same as the hive

[twilit current]

Ooh really?

I didn't know that

[pastel timber]

the sinners road guys who give you the tacks say as much, greymoor used to be bountiful with farming before the citadel had them catch all the runoff silk falling down

[twilit current]

But that doesn't say if greymoor was wisp thicket

It could have just been a more prosperous settlement

[pastel timber]

well wisp thicket is part of the greymoor map, and the wisp thicket enemies used to be in greymoor in the older trailers

[twilit current]

Either way, that's a pretty cool interpretation

Yet another place in Pharloom where the citadel's rampant environmental destruction and influence encroaches upon nature

[pastel timber]

the contrast between the deeply saturated green wisp thicket and the drab grey greymoor is a nice way to show how bad the citadels pollution really is

[twilit current]

I really like the environmental themes in Silksong

I see so many parallels with themes in this eco literature kinda module I'm taking lol

[wind olive]

Alternatively, my second guess is to the right of lost verdania, past the dead everything

[pastel timber]

there are big empty gaps on the map but you gotta remember hollow knights four DLCs added hive knight, gpz, white defender, grimm troupe, and godhome

no brand new areas

[pastel timber]

the themes get very heavy handed at times im sure theres a lot of other things that can slip under the radar but it is super interesting to think about

[spring merlin]

Godhome was through the junk pit which was a new area, no?

[twilit current]

Idk, I feel like it's just showing how no corner of Pharloom is truly spared from the citadel and its great influence

[wind olive]

I feel like team cherry would have added multiple new areas or fleshed out the smaller ones more if they could work on silksong as long as they wanted. So I bet that's coming in dlc.

[pastel timber]

i more mean no new named areas, junkpit was another room in waterways

[twilit current]

Well, I guess the ants are still pretty powerful, they didn't touch far fields much

[pastel timber]

yeah given that one interview they gave i wouldnt be surprised if they added a ton of content in a dlc

[wind olive]

they only have a 200 mil USD budget and all the time they want to take.

[twilit current]

I'd really love an epilogue to the game, but I doubt they'd do it given the more sombre tone of silksong as a whole

I'd love to be proven wrong though

[pastel timber]

i doubt an epilogue too i dont think its quite their design philosophy

but who knows, they went insane with act 3, they could do literally anything

[twilit current]

It's a shame because I feel like an epilogue would be great considering Hornet is still alive after act 3

And I strongly doubt she'd just leave immediately

[wind olive]

especially if they want to keep the endings up to interpretation or vague

[pastel timber]

slight tangent but leading up to silksong seeing people say "team cherry said all endings are canon" was so funny knowing that that statement was made 8 years ago before godmaster dropped

[twilit current]

They might add new endings in a DLC I guess

I personally still like the Dream no more ending from HK the most

[pastel timber]

sister of the void is already hype enough they cannot possibly outdo it

[twilit current]

I feel like it makes the most thematic sense for HK

[twilit current]

Just needs an epilogue imo lol

[wind olive]

I just wanted an ending beating act 3 while cursed :/

[twilit current]

But I don't hate the sister of the void ending, I think it's pretty great

And I like that it says basically everything you need to know

[pastel timber]

oh for sure, dnm is definitely "true ending", however they made godmaster and went "woah that goes hard as fuck" and decided to continue with that i guess 😭

[pastel timber]

god could you imagine

[twilit current]

The knight showed up to save Hornet, the threads fall away and the void retreats, Lace is alive and the two decide to leave Pharloom together as evidenced by the final title screen with both their needles on the surface

[pastel timber]

that reminds me actually what is the greyroot witch, related to the white lady at all? same species non-higher-being form? like how theres the radiance and normal moths?

[wind olive]

They look visually similar

[pastel timber]

the greyroot/paleroot is also similar

[twilit current]

I do think the true ending of silksong shows both all the vessels and the shade lord in flashes just so you can take either dream no more or embrace the void as canon

Definitely not the hollow knight or sealed siblings endings though lol

[wind olive]

I imagine that the pale king got mpreg'd the same way as hornet

[pastel timber]

yeah it is 100% left ambiguous for that reason, but i like to think that the existence of shade lord at all proves p5 ending canon (given that you need the godseekers focus to form it), and that the knight is simply reaching out from inside the shade lord, giving hornet a more familiar face as it saves her

[twilit current]

But all the vessels show up too, and they only show up in the dream no more ending

So I think it makes more sense that either ending can be canon

[pastel timber]

the shade lord consists of all of the siblings unified and focused

at least thats how i took it

the main piece of evidence people throw around is the absence of the hollow knights shade

i dont think its particularly strong personally, i think either ending can still be canon based on interpretation

[twilit current]

Either way, I'll still take dream no more as canon lol, I much prefer that ending myself

Or at the very least, canon to HK alone

[pastel timber]

thematically it is the best one for hk for sure

[twilit current]

I can see embrace the void being canon to HK and Silksong combined

So THK is still roaming around in hallownest

[pastel timber]

especially with silksongs focus on the eldritch power and presence of the void

the knight still existing within the void like that makes more sense thematically for p5 ending than dnm, where the knight and siblings are laid to rest for good

[twilit current]

Gotta love how Hornet's just chilling outside the black egg temple in that ending

"Wonder when that little ghost will show up"

[pastel timber]

its so funny

[wicked fossil]

While I do think Dream No More fits more thematically as HK's ending, viewing the final scene of Silksong with Embrace the Void is interesting

[twilit current]

Although Embrace the Void having the knight escape containment and not doom Hallownest is interesting

[wicked fossil]

Cause Ghost never showed up at the Temple of the Black Egg and Hornet watched as the Infection faded

[twilit current]

Considering what happened with the void escaping containment in silksong

[pastel timber]

it follows that if the knight feels affection for hornet and doesnt want her to die itd also influence the shade lord, whatever its nature truly is, to not destroy hallownest and instead return to the abyss

[pastel timber]

the knight killed her mother for nothing 😭

[wicked fossil]

Yeah yikes

[twilit current]

Yeah that nosk fight having Hornet probably hints at the knight having some kind of appreciation for Hornet

[pastel timber]

whenever i replay the game i always go dreamerless p5 ending just so herrah can live </3

[twilit current]

Especially if we then consider them saving Hornet in sister of the void

[pastel timber]

right??

[twilit current]

Still amazed at that ending

I managed to not get spoiled at all and was blown away

[pastel timber]

me too

[wicked fossil]

Same here

[twilit current]

I was this close to googling the ending because I was getting destroyed by Lost Lace and just wanted to see the ending

[pastel timber]

i got through the whole game completely blind (up to 95% then, after beating the game, i googled the last few things i was missing)

it was so insanely peak

[twilit current]

But I managed to beat lost lace last phase by the power of cogflies and tacks locking in

[pastel timber]

COGFLIES YEAHHH

[twilit current]

It was sooo intense

I could barely hit her in her final phase so I just went "all tools go"

[pastel timber]

same here, once the tools cleared she was easier to hit as well

[twilit current]

I did the same thing with my first Karmelita win lol

[pastel timber]

i was so nervous for it for my steel soul run i was still 50/50 with it but i wiped the floor it was amazing

[twilit current]

I kept getting slaughtered by her final phase, so went "cogflies and tacks go" and killed her on 1hp with my needle when she was about to hit me

Heartracing final finish

[pastel timber]

i went into the game knowing that thered never be a single moment as insane as "challenge what? the sun?" but the build up to lost lace as a whole was a much more incredible sequence

the speech, the trailer music, the dive, the cutscene

[twilit current]

At first, I was surprised Lost Lace was the final fight, because I knew Lost Lace was a bossfight

But I assumed it would just be some random bossfight or something, not the literal final boss lol

But it was so epic, especially the second phase where it feels like the world is collapsing and you need to lock in to save it

[pastel timber]

honestly im glad it was, the duel type fights like lace or phantom have always been hk's strong suit, im really really glad they used a tough but fun one for their final fight

[twilit current]

And it helps that the fight is amazing gameplay wise

So, so much better and more thematically relevant than killing god again JRPG style

[pastel timber]

right?

[twilit current]

Really my only critiques are that they could telegraph the teleport attack better, some of the presentation could have been more epic for a final boss fight and the colour contrast could have been better

The teleport into you feels like BS at first, but once you learn it it's fine

[pastel timber]

yeah agreed

you just have to float a tad longer than you think you do

as for the presentation i gotta say, crucified gms in a void rotted cocoon is so simple but so beautiful

[twilit current]

And you already learnt a lot of the Lace BS in Lace 2, so it makes this fight feel a lot fairer

[pastel timber]

it gives you a jumpstart so you skip the frustrating unsatisfying early phases

[twilit current]

Lace 2 felt like so much BS when I was learning it

Much more satisfying after learning it though, very learny boss

[ember musk]

OH SHIT WAIT THIS WAS THE ROBOT THAT WAS ANSWERING THE CONFESSION THINGIES IN UNDERWORKS AAAA

[pastel timber]

that confession booth is so funny 😭

"we dont forgive you keep working"

like gosh team cherry be a bit more subtle

[ember musk]

its not even a person responding its an automated response to every worker

[trim lark]

"We hate YOU."

• John Cherry, while designing all the bench traps

[ember musk]

just goes to show how miserable their working conditions are

[ember musk]

its story telling though

[twilit current]

I like that no one really criticises the single use benches since you still respawn at them anyway for free after using them, and they're so incredibly thematically relevant

And there's like two of them in the underworks so it's fine

[pastel timber]

i dont criticise them because theyre really funny

[twilit current]

I love how free public benches are genuinely a plus point for the pale king and hallownest being a socialist utopia lol

We've sunk this low

[ember musk]

the environmental story telling through gameplay in underworks is out of this world

[pastel timber]

the underworks workers dropping so few rosaries, benches being single use, confession booth costing 25, loams treadmill, its all hilarious and such good storytelling without a single word uttered

[twilit current]

Running on the treadmill for 45s and getting a single rosary for your efforts is absolutely hilarious

[pastel timber]

hornet is red because she will emancipate the proletariat o7

[twilit current]

I wish I discovered that area on my own because I didn't find it on my own and had to come back later after hearing it existed

[trim lark]

being a pilgrim is god damn miserable

1. Venture the many dangerous areas of Pharloom, all of them very willing to freely transform you into a corpse

2. Head through the Blasted Steps and their daunting winds and Guards, if you're pure the Judges may ignore but you're usually fucked

3. Enter the Citadel and be damned to work in the Underworks, in dangerous conditions and with essentially no salary

4. If you're just that lucky, become part of the choir of the Citadel, where you will be infused with silk to keep working, for as long as you can move.

5. BECOME A FUCKING LIGHT FIXTURE OR INDENTURED COGWORK MACHINE FOR ETERNITY AFTER 'DEATH'

[ember musk]

and people not paying attention to anything will say "this area sucks, enemies dont drop enough money to farm them"

[pastel timber]

and to be clear if at any point on this journey you get sick or injured you get exiled or arrested 😭

or worse

[twilit current]

To be fair, I've seen basically no criticism for the underworks

[trim lark]

there is NO winning for pilgrims

[pastel timber]

this game is art plain and simple

[twilit current]

Which I'm glad about because it seems everyone realises it's very on-the-nose commentary about the nature of exploitation

[trim lark]

unless your name is sherma i guess

[ember musk]

thats exactly what im saying, people wanting a story mode or easy mode where they get more rosary drops and esier enemies and everything but my brother in christ the story is told THROUGH things you want removed from the game like ???

[trim lark]

• pilgrims dont have any crazy movement, and arent able to use bellways or weaponry as they are 'sinful'

[pastel timber]

the shared suffering is part of the experience

[ember musk]

when you observe a painting you see the whole picture, the era it was painted in, the conditions, the motives, everything, not just pretty colors

[pastel timber]

and the difficulty is the point!

the difficulty discourse is so overblown really

once people beat the game theyll go "in hindsight that was fine actually"

[ember musk]

yea not to mention the same thing happened for hollow knight on release

[pastel timber]

exactly 😭

[twilit current]

To be fair, I think an assist mode celeste style would be great

[trim lark]

a choir of screaming agony when you see that one bench trap descend upon you in hunters for the first time

[ember musk]

also people saying a random ass enemy deals 2 masks of damage in silksong compared to hollow knight where only "end game bosses" do it, my bretheren, one of the first enemies in crossroads deals double damage

[twilit current]

Celeste's story is also about overcoming great hardship, and difficulty is a huge part of the intended experience, but it still has a fantastic assist mode for those who need it to enjoy the game

[pastel timber]

i dashed left rapidly to avoid it, still getting hit of course but that actually pushed me into the lever room, i thought it was genius game design not realising nobody else did the same whoops

[trim lark]

tbf, the area around that guy makes it very easy to just ignore the guy, aint hiding anything either i believe

[twilit current]

I doubt team cherry would add an assist mode, but I think silksong would greatly benefit from one

[pastel timber]

entombed husk 🗣️

[ember musk]

yea but silksong story is told through so much dialogue boxes are only a small part of it, celeste can get away with that

[twilit current]

So all the people complaining about double damage or no rosaries or benches costing money or runbacks or whatever can turn on those options and be happy

[pastel timber]

thing is if people really feel that strongly they can get a mod for it

[twilit current]

That's true, there's already double damage gone mods

[ember musk]

theres also hornet has 1 hp only mods 👅

[twilit current]

I love the one that says that there's too much double damage and just replaces it with triple damage lol

[pastel timber]

silk soul....

[trim lark]

replaces boring double damage with triple damage

[pastel timber]

fireborn did a "no double damage" video where double damage is an instakill

[twilit current]

The thing I feel is strong evidence that double damage is an intentional design decision is that team cherry uses barely any triple damage in the game, it's used very sparingly

[ember musk]

id be down to do a run like that it looks funny

[pastel timber]

honestly same

[pastel timber]

yeah you gotta get into the mindset that double damage is the default on purpose

[twilit current]

If team cherry just wanted to inflate damage values for the hell of it, triple damage would be everywhere in the late game

[ember musk]

double damage is to balance out the broken heal you get in this game xd

[twilit current]

And yet, it isn't

And I think people greatly exaggerate how much double damage there is in the game, especially after the patches

[pastel timber]

oh for sure

[trim lark]

we've got like 3 instances of triple damage in this big ass game

[ember musk]

it was very much fine on release id argue

[pastel timber]

environment hazards doing 2 masks was a bit silly in fairness but thats been patched

[twilit current]

Like, the enemies people complain about the most early game, like the ants and the birds, all deal single damage

Except like one attack the tall bird does

[ember musk]

where your max masks by the first triple damage instance is 9 btw js saying its fine

[twilit current]

Even most of the primal aspid like enemies deal single damage

[pastel timber]

i did bad ending with 6 masks and 1 nail upgrade 😭

[trim lark]

last judge explosion does 3 but you can see it coming from a mile away

[twilit current]

One of my most hated enemies, the roach catcher, deals single damage lol

[ember musk]

oh lmao yeah

[twilit current]

I don't see enough hate for that enemy

[trim lark]

which one is that

[twilit current]

Why's everyone hating on the birds when roach catcher is right there

[pastel timber]

i saw it coming but was backed into a corner so all i could do was succumb to my fate </3

[twilit current]

The one that throws the double spinny spikes

[pastel timber]

timothy chalamet...

[trim lark]

oh i just hit them away

[twilit current]

It's this game's version of the crystal aspid imo

[ember musk]

ooh shalame

[pastel timber]

i just pogo them

[twilit current]

I have a skill issue so I suck at hitting them away and almost always take damage

[ember musk]

you can deflect the spikes its pretty easy once you get the timing

[pastel timber]

most enemies in this game are susceptible to pogos, wanderers crest my beloved

[trim lark]

i hate the burning bugs im so glad they arent in the majority of greymoor like the trailer suggested

[twilit current]

Also, deep docks bomb guy

He's so hard to deal with

[pastel timber]

citadel kicked them out </3

[twilit current]

Funnily enough I don't really get bell thrower and driznit hate, they've never really annoyed me that much

[trim lark]

im alright with the bell thrower and driznit but when theres like other threats they will the most fucking devious shits

[twilit current]

Yeah bell thrower is really annoying in HHG

I go for them first so they can't mess me up

[trim lark]

i meant to write hits but i think its funnier this way

[pastel timber]

flying enemies being hard to hit can mean you waste your attention on them and get hit in doing so

[trim lark]

im more thankful that there isnt some flying enemy that can blind your screen or smthing

[twilit current]

Bomb guy kinda lol

[trim lark]

even if flintflame kinda does that

[trim lark]

i can atleast still see
sorta

[pastel timber]

dlc that just replaces deep docks bomb rocks with flashbangs

[trim lark]

we get a new craftmetal and can make pipebombs

[twilit current]

I think that if I had to pick a single primal aspid successor in silksong, it would be deep docks bomb guy

Although I love the comically large explosion animation

[trim lark]

no fancy name or lore its literally just the png of a pipebomb

[pastel timber]

the ducts squit is right there

[trim lark]

there are like too many candidates on the same, if not higher level of annoyance as the primal aspid

[twilit current]

I don't find that one too annoying, you can manipulate its movement pretty easily once you know it

And the plants eat them too

Putrified ducts is also a pretty small area, so they're fine

[pastel timber]

theres only the one that is an annoying flying mosquitoe sized insect that shoots 3 arced projectiles that are tough to dodge

[pastel timber]

they eat cogflies too i was so sad

[trim lark]

i thought i would hate barnaks but its really easy to just swing at every vine and they do mostly good things

like consuming squits and being cool parkour

[twilit current]

Yeah I thought I would hate them too, turns out there aren't too many of them and they're pretty easy to escape

[trim lark]

we aint even loring we just talking atp 💔

[twilit current]

Funnily enough the original primal aspid still annoys me more than most silksong enemies

[pastel timber]

😭 true

[twilit current]

Maybe it's just because Hornet has way more tools to deal with flying enemies and moves around much more speedily

[trim lark]

does hornet simply have the urge to stab corpses everytime theyre in a chapel

[pastel timber]

now this is lore discussion

[ember musk]

the plant + giant sucker combo can end your 8hp steel soul run in a second

[twilit current]

Good thing I'm never attempting steel soul lol

[trim lark]

there is NO reason for her to do this she just FEELS like it

[trim lark]

and like it works but also WHY

[twilit current]

Half of her desires domination

So stabbing the thing to gain power makes perfect sense

She even does the binding thing in the act 2 ending

[pastel timber]

one time i dashed into a plant, got stuck in a weird animation, and when it spat me out i instantly teleported down directly into a giant sucker and was on one hp ive never quit out so fast in my life because what the fuck kinda glitch

[trim lark]

but like look at the wanderers crest user thats just a bodybag
its not even like an imposing corpse thats just a dude in a bag

[pastel timber]

i think she knows she can bind the strength of those bugs and it might help her

shes like really old she knows things

i saw one person mention that the kings brand might be a kind of crest actually

[trim lark]

with age comes the experience of knowing what corpses you should stab

[pastel timber]

has anyone else here seen the scrapped pale king looking crest

[twilit current]

Just think about everything Hornet knows that she isn't telling us

[trim lark]

does hornet know what a 45 degree angle is
does she know trigonometry exists

[pastel timber]

hornet can make cogflies from memory sat at a bench i think she knows basic maths

[twilit current]

She sure seems very good at dashing at a 45 degree angle

She can dash at other angles though (original HK game)

Shame we can't do lore accurate hornet by dashing in all 360 degree angles

[trim lark]

i suppose once hornet can get their hands in a tool they can just make it from memory

which makes it kinda odd that she just forgets how to make the hk sting shards

[pastel timber]

silksong takes place a while after hk as far as we know

[trim lark]

she forgor

[twilit current]

I'm still wondering what she did in Hallownest after the Radiance was defeated

Was she just chilling there doing nothing lol

[pastel timber]

caught up with her sibling (who could see everything she ever did anyway)

[trim lark]

aura farm at the memorial in city of tears

[pliant meadow]

Hornet? She was guarding the entrance to the kingdom (at howling cliffs), she meets Quirrel there in the Quirrel comic

[pastel timber]

thats a prequel comic no?

[ember musk]

lmao i saw it happen before i think its cause you get sucked up too close to his mouth

[pliant meadow]

To hollow knight, yes

[trim lark]

i mean would there be a reason for hornet to stand guard at hallownest edge its not like the infections there anymore

[pastel timber]

yeah she can do whatever she wants now, hallownest's over

mantis tribe wins long live the mantis lords

[twilit current]

Hallownest? Nah, Mantis Tribe

I guess Hallownest is still a pretty nice place to live despite being dead for a long time

Hornet can stay in greenpath and pet all the fluffy creatures there I guess lol

[pastel timber]

its so funny that in hallownest you have a cult sect of soul worshippers who imbue themselves with the essence of hundreds of dead bugs to try and repel the infeciton, and then you have the mantises who were just build different and got away scot free

[twilit current]

I mean, that's where we first see her in HK, and knowing all the fluffy lore in silksong, it makes a lot more sense

[terse warren]

Tbf Mantises were conscious before PK and Soul Sanctum wasn't

[terse warren]

Maybe something new arose in the meanwhile tho

It was kinda the whole point of the thing

[pastel timber]

maybe, but something new would no longer be the hallownest she swore to protect

the kingdom she knew is gone for good, she has no more ties to the land

[twilit current]

But she's still a daughter of hallownest

[terse warren]

Oh yes of course

[twilit current]

That line was absolute fire

[pastel timber]

true

[terse warren]

Would've been if not for the fact the wrongly slandered PK 5 minutes earlier in the Wingsmoulds entry

[twilit current]

Ok I get it, you really like the pale king

[terse warren]

Yes but that's also not the point

[pastel timber]

heartbreaking: father's hobby ridiculed by daughter who doesnt get it