sk-lore

[ember river]

They wrote it before?

[maiden meteor]

I firmly believe that weavers fled after containment failed

[spark valve]

These simple bugs shall bear it full.** Never to cease. Never to silence.**

[ember river]

I stand by that

[lethal burrow]

Oh damn, I never even considered that they were compatible. Thanks for pointing that out.

[terse warren]

That makes no sense

[ember river]

"We shall die" then they die

Pretty straightforward

[digital hemlock]

Also why is the herrah shaped like this

[lethal burrow]

that isn't the interpretation I tend to lean on, but I acknowledge that both are pretty as of now viable.

I haven't seen anything to really make the chances of the other sea Slim

[tropic arrow]

Silksong lore is ambigious enough, especially at certain parts, mostly when it comes to past events, that multiple interpretations all work.

[terse warren]

Because it's a retcon

[maiden meteor]

rotund

[ember river]

Oh not another herrah discussion again

[lethal burrow]

and while we're at it while was the pure vessel ever pure

[spark valve]

if the flight happened while gms was asleep they wouldn't use weavenests and they couldn't be fleeing her because they never anticipated her waking up

[terse warren]

No

[ember river]

It was pure badassness

[lethal burrow]

Either say birth or it was pale king stuff and we leave it at that

[tropic arrow]

Anyway, does anyone have the Whiteward (I think it was) Needolin dialogue? The one that pertains to Silkflies?

[spark valve]

gms waking up only started happening well after the weavers were usurped and dead

[digital hemlock]

Maybe herrah just was an extra freaky spider

[terse warren]

Red Memory

[digital hemlock]

So even becoming a weaver doesn enlarge her head

[maiden meteor]

Wiki has page for all needoline dialogues

[ember river]

Again, greedily taken doesn't instantly mean it was a revolt

[lethal burrow]

what if they only started to leaving when she started to wake up?

[digital hemlock]

And instead enlarges her body

[spark valve]

that isn't even the relevant part of that message

[tropic arrow]

oh where?

[terse warren]

So like 5 days ago?

[ember river]

How would weavers even lose against conductors in the first place, they had laser robots, magic and much deeper insight

[kindred verge]

depends on how you define "pure"

"Hollow" no, it was never truly hollow

"Uncorrupted by Radiance" yes, there was a point before it was sealed when the Radiance had not yet corrupted it

[terse warren]

5v500 who wins

[digital hemlock]

Pure vessel is purely hot

[spark valve]

numbers, weakening

[lethal burrow]

how long do you think grand silk has been waking up for?

[tropic arrow]

Ahhh there we go, I think this is the one I was looking for

[terse warren]

A month max

[maiden meteor]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Needolin_Locations

[terse warren]

The guy in Bellhart that has a shop locked himself up and survived only of what he had stored in there

[digital hemlock]

I think now she’s actually at a point where she’s been waking up for so long she can just choose to wake up when her delivery order for fresh weaver DoorDash arrives

[tropic arrow]

Day 290921 of debating things that took an unknown amount of time and trying to assign X time to it (there is literally no solid dates or timeline)

[terse warren]

A month is generous

[dapper willow]

I think the bellhard curse is a much more recent development
It was widow who did it

[spark valve]

that's when widow started doing that not necessarily when the haunting started overall

[tropic arrow]

my view as well

[terse warren]

It literally wasn't

[maiden meteor]

Maybe Hornet almost killing Lace is what triggered her

[ember river]

This

[digital hemlock]

this

[terse warren]

Widow can't even make silk how is she supposed to do that

[spark valve]

using music to guide it

[ember river]

Bellheart can't be used as a reference for how long the Haunting has been going

[digital hemlock]

She haunts using grandma’s silk

[kindred verge]

"Crazed fanatic able to guide Pharloom's haunted Silk by music played upon it."

[digital hemlock]

She also uses grandmas silk to throw bells at you

[kindred verge]

she can't make silk, but she can guide it

[ember river]

Hornet outright mentions she's controlling the silk, but she's not the source

Or guide, rather

[dapper willow]

also the haunting seems to be much more selective
There are areas that I presume were hit much more recently
Like everything outside the citadel

[terse warren]

That Haunting is still recent enough that people currently alive remember how it was like before it

[spark valve]

the haunting is relatively recent yes

[ember river]

It's definetely recent, but it could have been 5 months, could have been 5 years

[maiden meteor]

Bugs’ lifespan is weird honestly

[ember river]

The history of Pharloom extends much further

[maiden meteor]

Ogrim is alive after presumably centuries

[spark valve]

but this is compared to infection which was like from antiquity

[ember river]

Since bugs are different species each has different lifespans

[terse warren]

Okay even then

[ember river]

I don't think Hallownest was infected for more than two generations

[terse warren]

It started with someone asking "Maybe Weavers only left when GMS started waking up"

[lethal burrow]

What makes you say that?

[dapper willow]

I think the citadel was hit much earlier with the haunting than the rest of pharloom

[spark valve]

yes that is very absurd for many reasons

[terse warren]

Scroll up

[ember river]

Emilitia is also alive, and so is the Old Stag

[maiden meteor]

Higher Caste certainly was the earliest victims

[spark rain]

yeah it says so in some bug's hunter's journal

[maiden meteor]

we have choral commandment about Hornet capture

[lethal burrow]

The specific thread going down on bellhart is explicitly pointed out to be a slightly different thing than the haunting as a whole, and instead something directed by widow.

But even then it's not clear that the haunting began immediately after the waking up process also began

[ember river]

A lot of NPCs remember how it was before the Infection

[maiden meteor]

which wouldn’t be needed under total GMS control

[spark rain]

"they were the first to fall to the haunting" or something along the lines

[ember river]

We also don't get any concrete timeline, not even in lifetimes

[tropic arrow]

Bug lifespan can be extremely long. Karmelita is older than both the Citadel and Hallownest, and so is Green Prince, with the latter seemingly not even having aged a day.

[spark rain]

why was widow assigned to bellhart specifically?

[maiden meteor]

I assume that Haunting was going from up and downwards

[lethal burrow]

and the ant queen is old enough to be called the aunt queen at this point

[ember river]

Where's the evidence that Green Prince was that old?

[maiden meteor]

so Choir was hit first

[tropic arrow]

It's also possible that the two are connected

[dapper willow]

Karmelita is special

[terse warren]

We don't know that they're older than the citadel, we only know that they were born before their regions got fucked up

[dapper willow]

Green prince seems to be much more recent

[ember river]

Khann for sure, but I'd say Karmelita and Green Prince rose and fell during the Citadel

[digital hemlock]

True

[maiden meteor]

We know that Citadel is the reason Verdania fell

[lethal burrow]

In what way do you mean?

[terse warren]

No reason to think that Khaan died before the others but wtv

[tropic arrow]

Well seeing as Karmelita was around when GMS first showed up and started doing her thing, with the Citadel being made to put GMS asleep, she does indeed predate the Citadel

[tropic arrow]

The amount of silk infused to people being the catalyst for GMS waking up, I mean

[digital hemlock]

It’s more likely their regions got fucked up as the citadel expanded

[spark valve]

I mean
he died
the others didn't

[ember river]

She was?

[terse warren]

I'm pretty sure the wasn't

[spark valve]

Great one, I come not to see you as you are, rather I would have you recall what you were, before the pale monarch, when once your heart beat bright and brave.
That beating heart I would take, though know my intent is worthy.

[ember river]

He's surprisingly alive, I thought he was dead but I checked and he does the same death animation as other live coral members, which the fossils in the throne room don't do

[lethal burrow]

idk ant queen seems to recognize a pale being when she sees one, but it's very weird how the fallen factions seem to treat grandmother silk as the one responsible for their fault when it seems like it should just be the citadel so who knows

[maiden meteor]

did he really die or just turn crusty

[digital hemlock]

Which means arbitrary time likely after gms sleep and before haunting

[tropic arrow]

The shamans literally say that Pharloom had power before the Pale Monarch bound these lands to herself. That, in and of itself, has to mean Karmelita was around before GMS was active, and the Citadel was either made to put GMS into sleep or made after she was put to sleep to keep her in it

Meaning Karmelita is older than the Citadel

[spark rain]

yeah the snail shaman say that she was uniting bugs in the wilds when the monarch arrived first

[terse warren]

It might seem crazy what I'm boutta say

Khaan doesn't die till we get his beating heart.

Karakians turn to crust when they die, Khaan only does that when we kill him in the dream

[spark rain]

or started her own rule

[ember river]

Damn Hornet using Citadel and Pale Monarch interchangeably.
Could be before the Haunting took place, or she actually lived for countless generations

Weavers are that long lived at least

[rain gate]

like how karmelita is alive till we take her heart

[spark valve]

the other husks in his room are there still game death anims take liberties

[digital hemlock]

True he could just be sleeping like the watcher at the edge

[lethal burrow]

yeah, this seems undeniably, correct

[digital hemlock]

Which, I feel like it’s almost like dead

[maiden meteor]

Nyleth also seems to be somewhat alive

[ember river]

I think the only confirmed dead ruler is Nyleth, but then again I am too confused about Nyleth lore to talk about her

[terse warren]

Characters do seem to always say "GMS" even if it's Weavers or Citadel

[spark rain]

true

[quartz plinth]

What is the lore behind the court of Crowls?

[ember river]

That's No Man's Land for me

[lethal burrow]

What do you think it is?

[tropic arrow]

Even if Hornet uses "citadel" and "pale monarch" interchangably, and I don't see that, the shamans don't

[terse warren]

Might not be dead, might be like watcher at the edge, might've become fossils before turning to crust

[spark valve]

yes that's intentional lumping her and everything she caused together

[ember river]

Fat Craw sentences you to a trial by combat because he (kinda accurately) blames you for the void taking over

[maiden meteor]

I think when people talk about GMS they mean her general influence

[tropic arrow]

"Pharloom was not born of that monarch, Old One. Power existed in these lands even before she bound them beneath her. Seek the old hearts of our kingdom and the last successors to bear their strength. They're still out there, hidden away, much faded by the pale one's long dominion."

[maiden meteor]

because almost everything is the result of GMS’ existence

[ember river]

And the last successors

[spark valve]

if he was like watcher he would probably behave something like watcher but whatever it doesn't really matter

[tropic arrow]

Regardless, point has been made: Karmelita is older than the Citadel.

[terse warren]

Green Prince can be used as a Old Heart and he was NOT before the Citadel

[ember river]

Maybe the Skarrs lived before GMS showed up but Karmelita is recent?

[tropic arrow]

and this same thing should apply to the Prince too

[quartz plinth]

The secret society of greymoor, composed of the richest and wealthiest nembers of Greymoor

[maiden meteor]

not that I want to argue but tbf “bound them beneath her” could mean haunting too

[tropic arrow]

Most you can argue is that what happened to Verdania happened while the Citadel was around. That doesn't mean he can't also be older than the Citadel.

[ember river]

Also this, but Verdania was a sham ruled by narcissists anyways

[terse warren]

Kinda feels weird to take the beating heart of a corpse...

[lethal burrow]

The green Prince and the ants and the coral people and Shellwood are pretty much parallels to the people that came before the pale king, ya know, the mushrooms, and the mantis and mosskin, (not the moths though fuck that)

[maiden meteor]

insane moth slander

[spark rain]

doesn't the prince's bf go to the citadel to save their tribe or something like that?

[ember river]

#StopMothism

[maiden meteor]

yep

[lethal burrow]

sort of, it seems like they're more of an independent fact, though, as opposed to created from the wealthy elites, almost more of a cartel? idk lol

[spark valve]

it's a source of power

[ember river]

Then he gets vivisected and turned into two robots

[tropic arrow]

The Shamans aren't saying all of these 4 died under GMS rule, we know that Nyleth was still around after the Citadel was constructed.

Green Prince can be older than the Citadel too, it doesn't contradict anything

[lethal burrow]

ye the naïve soul

[terse warren]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[ember river]

The Citadel is old as fuck though

[lethal burrow]

Lots of people are old as fuck

[maiden meteor]

also afaik Green Prince never got to rule Verdania

[terse warren]

It doesn't really matter when Khaan died but I still think he was alive till we killed him

[spark valve]

the bearers of the hearts don't have to be older than the citadel or gms themselves they just have to be the last inheritors of power that existed before gms

[tropic arrow]

I am aware. Bug age is a confusing thing, and the Green Prince not having aged a day despite being that old still bugs me (pun intended), so you aren't alone there

[maiden meteor]

because his bf died before coronation

[ember river]

I think they did, they proclaimed themselves holy after killing the palestag and IIRC the clover dancers entry refers to them as rulers

Let me check

[terse warren]

We do not meet a single character that was alive before the Weavers except for GMS and Weavers themselves. Everyone that comes close in age is special in some way or another

[spark rain]

did those cities fall before or after the haunting?

[ember river]

Huh, not rulers, just princes

[spark rain]

because we know the citadel existed for a period without the haunting

[maiden meteor]

Verdania certainly fell before

[spark valve]

All bowed before we princes green...

These waters, at land's edge... and the shrine atop... our furtive escape... our brief retreat from rule...

[lethal burrow]

there's nothing to suggest that the Weavers immediately betrayed grandmother silk as their first action

I would bargain they existed for a time under her

[spark rain]

ah

[terse warren]

Ok even then the Citadel is extremely old

[ember river]

I'd say that's the most likely situation

[tropic arrow]

No one said otherwise

All I am saying is that some bugs are just older still

[terse warren]

Except we meet no characters from before that

[spark valve]

lifespans are not consistent across species

[frank nymph]

i need lore on how the sprintmaster charm got to hk if he is in pharloom

[spark rain]

Ofcourse, they call her a liar. Means they believe her for a while

[tropic arrow]

My entire point has been that Karmelita is older than the citadel, albeit there are other interpretations I suppose

[spark valve]

multiple sprintmasters

[maiden meteor]

maybe a guild?

[ember river]

I think the Skarrs may be, but she is not

[terse warren]

I'm saying that we have no confirmed ones

[ember river]

This, honestly

[maiden meteor]

there’s a mask makers guild so why not sprintmasters

[lethal burrow]

and then we get into first sinner stuff because my instinct is to say that it was the first sinner discovery that the Weavers were not actually divine children that caused the Weaver's to rebel against grandmother silk and play God for a time, but then why is the first sinner locked up? Was she betrayed by the other Weavers?

[terse warren]

Since we have no confirmed bugs that live that long, there's not really a reason to think that any bug would live that long

[tropic arrow]

Eh, fair enough. Again, Hollow Knight lore is ambigious enough that a bajillion different interpretations are perfectly valid and consistent, so

[maiden meteor]

I think Weavers were the ones to lock FS

choir bugs simply wouldn’t have enough strength

[ember river]

I personally attribute First Sinner's discovery to the Weaver rule, and her punishment to her sisters.
They ruled as holy beings until she found out they weren't, and that's pretty damn inconvenient

[lethal burrow]

her chief anger seems to be with grandmother silk, though.
from her dialogue she doesn't seem to have any care for her sister's betrayal

Which I find odd

[maiden meteor]

We know for sure it must’ve been after Citadel was conceived

because slab was likely established after

but yeah it’s weird

[lethal burrow]

I do find some humour in you saying we "know for sure" and then following it up with "likely"

[maiden meteor]

I never give 100% statements

[ember river]

"She called us daughters. She called us divine. She lied"
I don't think this is an angry sentence, so maybe she was just telling the others and they chose to lock her up for good reason

[maiden meteor]

In case im wrong

[ember river]

80% is still not 100%

[spark rain]

the first sinner seems quite angry

[spark valve]

first sinner is all rage from her needolin lines and the rune rage ability

[maiden meteor]

I do wonder why FS attacked Hornet

[spark rain]

angy girl

[maiden meteor]

condemn for weavers? not wanting her to usurp GMS?

[edgy barn]

Lashing out

[ember river]

For example, saying "Hornet isn't void" is a well known fact
But saying "Most weavers went to Hallownest" is not

[edgy barn]

Or potentially a test of sorts, since Hornet can't actually die in that fight

[ember river]

I don't mean she's not angry, I mean the statement itself doesn't seem very hateful towards GMS herself

I'd be angry too if I was locked for saying something true

[spark rain]

I think she's angry at the LIE tho

[spark valve]

'cursed with silk'

she's angry at everything

[tropic arrow]

I mean to me, I take FS discovery to be why the Weavers turned on GMS, or at least a catalyst that led to it, but other interpretations seem plausible

[spark rain]

she probably angry because she has a deformed head

[lethal burrow]

Maybe a test

[ember river]

That's a common assumption and I can't really blame anyone for thinking that.
Mask Maker's dialogue however seems to imply otherwise

[edgy barn]

Before the fight:

...Faded...
...Forgotten...
...First...
...Our Silk... Our rage...
...Wait, and hate...
...Wait, and die...

During the fight:

I did not wane!
I did not forget!
Sustained by fury!
Cursed by Silk!
Cursed with Silk!
Cursed to know...
The sin... the truth...
Cursed to know...

[spark rain]

yeah

[tropic arrow]

Mask Maker dialogue doesn't contradict it imo

[maiden meteor]

It’s also weird Weavers wouldn’t free FS after turning on GMS

maybe she was dead by that point?

[ember river]

It seems that the Weavers overthrew GMS to free themselves from her rule

[tropic arrow]

that's not mutually exclusive with what I said

[spark rain]

maybe the weavers were

[kindred verge]

realistically it's possible FS only discovered the Truth because they hated society and pursued research they would disapprove

but that discovery was useful to the Weavers anyway

idk, pure speculation

[lethal burrow]

how so

[spark rain]

yeah that seems to be the case

[rain gate]

he ran
duh

[ember river]

I know, if it directly negated it I wouldn't say your assumption was reasonable

[spark rain]

why would their origin be useful to them?

[spark valve]

"Flee, sisters. Flee until your strength exhausts, so far you may escape at last her silken sight.
To start anew, to sustain, **free of web and service eternal." **

This low, her gaze escaped.
Prepare, sisters. Weave hope anew.
That we might break free this accursed web born of our naive
foundation.

those who fled gms and those who remained and snared her both did it for freedom

[maiden meteor]

I think it’s fair to assume FS was the first to discover truth behind Weavers’ existence

but rest is hazed

[spark rain]

also weavers did flee to multiple lands and if I'm not wrong every line perished didn't it?

[lethal burrow]

so basically, it was a joint effort to buy the mother the ones it was done They formed into two groups and one wanted to rule in the other wanted to fuck off and do whatever.

[maiden meteor]

only half breeds remained it seems

[spark valve]

that we know of but there could be others out there gms hadn't gotten to yet

[ember river]

"Hey, miserable god, time to fight an entire army of your same condition"
weaver whispering to the side of the one who just spoke
"Actually, I think you win, we're going home"

[tropic arrow]

Tbf there's at least 1 Weaver in Hallownest still alive during the events of HK

[maiden meteor]

during HK

[spark rain]

yeah like that one weaver in hollow knight that skuttles away lol

[tropic arrow]

yes

[maiden meteor]

not so surely during Silksong

[ember river]

HK was long before Silksong

[spark valve]

the hallownest weavers went back to pharloom things probably didn't end well for them

[spark rain]

that was a fucked up looking weaver tho

[maiden meteor]

it could be that this one weaver died before haunting began

[trim lark]

do we have any guesses as to why the multiple chapels even exist

[tropic arrow]

Not really? It looks normal

[spark rain]

i assume that weaver was a part weaver too

[ember river]

We also don't find any of the Weavers that left Hallownest for Pharloom

[spark rain]

it didn't have a body

[maiden meteor]

imo they probably just died during trip

[spark rain]

or maybe I'm not remembering correctly

[tropic arrow]

it does, you just can't see the legs due to the foreground

[edgy barn]

You aren't

[tropic arrow]

and Weavers are like, what, a good chunk legs anyway?

[ember river]

Yes

[spark rain]

Is herrah a true weaver?

[edgy barn]

Yes

[ember river]

Yes

[tropic arrow]

Yes, as of Silksong

[maiden meteor]

GMS seems to be unable to find any full-blooded weavers by the time of haunting

[spark rain]

she a chunky one

[tropic arrow]

either none left, or she just hasn't found them yet, both possibilities

[edgy barn]

We don't know the in-universe reason why she looks different. The meta answer is that herr being a Weaver is a retcon.

[ember river]

Also, am I the only one who noticed the similarities between Pharloom, Pharlid and Weavers being uplifted Pharlids?

[maiden meteor]

We have like what, three confirmed weaver lines?

Sandwastes, Blackrock and Hallownest

[rain gate]

city of steel too

[ember river]

Were Pharlids the most common bug in Pharloom at some point?

[edgy barn]

and City of Steel

[maiden meteor]

ahh

[spark rain]

i mean, if they captured 1/8th a weaver and even that weaver was frail and old. That could mean that there was long gap between their flee and when gms sent out for their capture

[ember river]

There most definetely was

[lethal burrow]

someone did point out that all the Weavers descendants brought to pharloom add up to one full weaver if we combine their amounts of Weaver

[ember river]

Weavers fled when bugs took over the citadel

Long before GMS woke up

[spark rain]

even hornet?

[spark valve]

some of them fled long before the citadel

[ember river]

Proof?

[edgy barn]

yeah

[spark valve]

they did not flee when the citadel was active

[spark rain]

wait what?

[spark valve]

"Flee, sisters. Flee until your strength exhausts, so far you may escape at last her silken sight.

To start anew, to sustain, free of web and service eternal."

[spark rain]

i thought the citadel came into effect not long after gms arrived

[ember river]

Why can't that be when the citadel was already there and they gave it to the conductors?

[spark valve]

the citadel is something the weavers who didn't flee built to keep her asleep

[spark valve]

"Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free."

[ember river]

The citadel was after the Weavers rebelled

[spark rain]

oh damn

[maiden meteor]

imo GMS was always in Pharloom, just for some time she and weavers minded their damn business

[ember river]

Why can't those two be written around the same time?

[spark valve]

because they're mutually exclusive

one says gms is asleep and will always be the other says fleeing from gms's sight and is in a weavenest

[maiden meteor]

Either way at some point weavers realized their containment wont work, and decided to dip

[spark valve]

no they didn't realize that

[ember river]

No they're not, a faction chose to stay mummified until someone strong enough came to save Pharloom and defeat GMS, some others chose to leave before GMS woke up and got mad

[spark valve]

Never to cease. Never to silence.

[ember river]

Then why would they pray for someone to weave them free if GMS was going to be contained forever

[spark valve]

because keeping her contained is described as a form of bondage

[spark rain]

😈😈

[ember river]

Which they already passed down

[maiden meteor]

I just don’t see why weavers would stop “lavishing in their false rule” otherwise

[muted lantern]

Because silk would always be present and have power over people even when asleep, as we see in game

[spark valve]

they didn't

the ones who fled fled BEFORE gms was snared

[ember river]

The haunting starts because she's waking up

[maiden meteor]

oh no I mean those who stayed

[spark valve]

there are multiple weavenests there were multiple scheming groups of weavers

[ember river]

Again, when is it mentioned that was before?

[spark valve]

1: big assumption it was voluntary
2: they are described as fading

[ember river]

Why couldn't they flee when they lost control of the citadel?

Voluntarily or otherwise

[muted lantern]

The only person who realized the plan would fail them was romino, which is why he felt guilty and became a penitent

[spark valve]

because they fled to escape gms and when they lost control of the citadel they thought the conductors would keep it running forever therefore gms would always be asleep

These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

it's right there it says it

[ember river]

And yet they ask for someone to weave them (the weavers) free

It also didn't work and they most likely knew that

[spark rain]

is the old penitent romino?

[spark valve]

it did work

[muted lantern]

Romino also implies this, implying sisters fled to the wastes before the sealing

[maiden meteor]

maybe they meant “for as long as they can” in small text

[spark valve]

that's not really what never means

[whole holly]

Sandwastes and Blackrock, are they other Kingdoms they fled to?

[ember river]

They never stopped and GMS still woke up and killed them all

[spark rain]

steel city

[spark valve]

they did stop

[maiden meteor]

City of Steel apparently

[lethal burrow]

yes

[spark rain]

Or city of steel

[ember river]

Source

[spark valve]

the citadel's long silence

that means
they did stop

[ember river]

What long silence

[muted lantern]

Very likely, he sings about a accord struck with the sisters and apparently his song matches the conductors melody

[whole holly]

so all of them are Kingdoms like Pharloom?

[spark rain]

i see

[ember river]

Wait, so then it WAS passed down willingly

[spark valve]

One to keep far from she was, least for us mortal sorts. Look of a child and a mind to match, but her's been up wanderin' this Citadel longer'n most. Even in its long silence, way 'fore you came and roused its ire.
the citadel has been silent that's why she's waking up

[maiden meteor]

so was he like the Conductor who was the one the weavers passed burden to?

[whole holly]

i just realized Pharlids and Pharloom sound similar

[spark rain]

Maybe, i don't think it's confirmed

[spark valve]

interesting

[ember river]

The citadel was silent because everyone was Haunted and dead, that's why some bugs start waking when you enter

[whole holly]

what is known about them other than weavers fled there?

[lethal burrow]

Why does grandmother silk only wake up properly when you meet her cocoon?

[spark rain]

It's either that THEY fled to these places or their descendants arrived there and then were captured

[ember river]

Nothing

[spark valve]

the whiteward shit with silk let her start affecting citadel bugs which let her silence the citadel which let her start waking up

[spark rain]

city of steel is probably the place where all the steel bugs come from, other than that i have no idea

[ember river]

Pretty sure she silenced the citadel because she was waking up, not the other way around.
The silk just made it much easier for her to expand her control

[spark valve]

the citadel's song is what was keeping her asleep

[muted lantern]

Likely, he was the first conductor, but it seems he realized the plan was doomed after seeing the citadels atrocities and knowing where all the silk use would lead, so he sealed himself away in the slab for his sins, this is why old penitent holds the citadel in reverence still, but seems very guilty over actions against the citadel, at least this is my best guess.

[maiden meteor]

imo citadel functioned some during early haunting

[ember river]

It was a flawed plan from the start

[spark valve]

source?

[maiden meteor]

why would Caste issue commandment to capture Hornet if everyone was haunted

[ember river]

The weavers gave the citadel away and fucked off

[spark valve]

if the citadel hadn't injected silk with themselves there's no reason to think they wouldn't have succeeded

[spark valve]

thinking that it would still work

[ember river]

I'd assume the Haunting isn't a true hivemind, they still need to communicate their findings even if their goals are alliggned

[spark valve]

"Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.
We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free."

[ember river]

Or to save their asses when they realized it would break someday

[spark rain]

some of it still functions as intended. Like forgedaughter and ballow and the architect etc

[spark valve]

also the weavers didn't flee the ones who were in pharloom at the time DIED

[ember river]

Let me write my little theory of everything explanation

[spark valve]

genuinely read the rune harp it's pretty unambiguous

[maiden meteor]

Forgedaughter is so weird btw

[spark valve]

"Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.
We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free."
the ones in pharloom at the time didn't flee, they died

[maiden meteor]

what must be so holy to hold her from leaving forge ever

[muted lantern]

"hey guys you know the silk that is controlled by the goddess we have been imprisoning for centuries, let's shoot that shit directly into our veins"

Classic government

[honest anvil]

they knew that even with the citadel keeping her asleep, GMS was still there, and they hadn't solved the problem forever. they were still serving her, even while she slept, and they hated being her minions

[spark valve]

the conductors didn't exactly share that shit around and may not have kept all the info alive even amongst their own ranks

[maiden meteor]

I think Whiteward existed either by Weavers’ blessing for fucked up experiments or because Citadel bugs wanted to be closer to their “gods”

[spark rain]

she also laughs if you hit ballow lol

[muted lantern]

How many conductors were there, was there multiple at once or only a single conductor at a time?

Could romino have seen the depravity going on and realized they were doomed

[rustic holly]

most likely multiple

[spark valve]

they have a forum

[spark rain]

wasn't the silk just used for healing the bugs in the first place?

[maiden meteor]

I think there were multiple but only one was THE Conductor

like there’s multiple vaultkeepers but only one Pontiff

[spark rain]

ooo that seems very bloodborne lol

[ember river]

So, the weavers built the citadel to keep GMS asleep, at some point they realized it was going to fail, so they passed down the citadel to new bugs, the ones that'd become the Conductors, and they went into ther weavenests to figure out a new plan.

Some straight up fled trying to escape her, amongst them was Herrah and the Hallownest Weavers.
Some others tried to make weapons against GMS, like Eva. When they realized that wasn't working they became the mummies found along the way, that's why they died, and yet still hoped for someone to return and get rid of GMS. That's also why they say they've waited long for you when you bind them.
A third offshoot apparently dug down and that's where that other rune harp comes from.

They could all be working towards a coordinated plan or independently, doesn't matter either way

I don't see how this doesn't make sense and take into account the harps and given lore

[maiden meteor]

very questionable healing considering some of them “refused to revive”

[ember river]

I wonder if that meant to revive them as a dreg husk, as a normal husk, or as a silkfly

[honest anvil]

yeah this is at least broadly accurate

[ember river]

Tammo is claiming otherwise

[muted lantern]

But yeah I should remind all that romino being old penitent is just a theory, there's good evidence for it but it's not confirmed, it's fully possible we'll meet a guy who just says "hello! Im conductor romino, the royal scientist!" And then we throw him into a pit

[spark valve]

it's in the wrong point in the timeline

[ember river]

Because you say so

There's no reason why the harps couldn't have been written around the same time

Given different views for different nests

[spark valve]

some of them were

but the ones who fled did so with time to exist they weren't fading

the ones in pharloom were dying out when the conductors came into power

[maiden meteor]

btw how do you guys think weavers reached abyss and why

[spark valve]

the ones who fled had to have fled well before that

[muted lantern]

Weavers probably had different leadership depending on nests no?

[ember river]

The ones who died were presumably the ones that became mummies and "have waited long"

[rain gate]

diving bell, to escape GMS

[ember river]

Why

[muted lantern]

They were mining for diamonds and dug down past bedrock

[spark valve]

because they had the ability to go to hallownest and chill for a long time

[ember river]

You keep parting from that idea but there's no real information about that being the case

[honest anvil]

diving bell, probably just experimenting and looking for power and stuff. abyss seems pretty useful

[spark rain]

the diving bell probably

[maiden meteor]

I think they might have tried to use Void in some way

[ember river]

It's likely

[maiden meteor]

they have void tendrils research after all

[muted lantern]

Do you guys think the weavers in hallownest are the same ones that fled or descendants

[maiden meteor]

same ones

[ember river]

They may well be the ones that fled there

[spark rain]

i mean pale king tried to implement void in his plans to save his kingdom. What if the weavers tried to do the same?

[muted lantern]

Like did herrah know gms

[honest anvil]

we don't know the lifespan of weavers or why the ones in pharloom died. they don't seem super mortal - widow seems to be kicking perfectly fine - and they struggle to bear children

[maiden meteor]

weavers probably cannot bear full-blooded offspring

[spark valve]

same ones and the fact that they didn't die in hallownest means they didn't flee at the very end of their lifespans

[spark rain]

Void does end up overpowering GMS

[ember river]

We don't know how long their lifespans are

[maiden meteor]

Hornet is half-weaver so Herrah must be 1st gen

[honest anvil]

i don't think it's necessarily even the case that the weavers in pharloom died from old age or that any weavers can die of old age. given the strength of silk it's entirely likely that they're functionally immortal unless killed

[terse warren]

It's definitely damn long

[muted lantern]

I'm still not over how different herrah looks in HK, they really gotta explain that

[edgy barn]

Not like they would be able to try. There are no male weavers

[maiden meteor]

she’s rotund

[terse warren]

It's a retcon it's not important. Herrah just looks different now, and always has looked like this.

[ember river]

Yep

[spark valve]

she got a redesign

[muted lantern]

Bulking for hibernation

[honest anvil]

i don't know why everybody is so caught up on how herrah looks why does every single weaver have to look identical. maybe she's just big. her title is the Beast that's a really weird title to give somebody unless they happen to be unnaturally gigantic

[maiden meteor]

she also has horns for whatever reason

[terse warren]

Because we see a lot of Weavers and they all look identical?

[muted lantern]

Because she looks like a normal weaver in the flashback, so her appearance changed

[spark rain]

herrah is wearing a puffer jacket

[muted lantern]

That's presumably part of her mask like hornets

[ember river]

She doesn't really look normal at all

[spark valve]

because they can't redesign that without making hornet's horns no longer derived from her

[honest anvil]

... what do you mean? she looked the same to me

[terse warren]

Pale Hornet when

[maiden meteor]

she just has full cloak in flashback

[edgy barn]

We see variations in weaver appearence (Widow v First Sinner) but they all follow the same body plan of a skinny black body

[ember river]

Wait, did you think the weavers in the first red memory had Herrah amongst them?

[maiden meteor]

so we don’t really see her body

[muted lantern]

Body shape wise she seems to be much more skeletal and have all her legs at the bottom of her body instead of along the sides

[rain gate]

cut ending

[maiden meteor]

Wyrm crest when

[honest anvil]

yeah but we don't see many weavers that matter. characters who matter have unique character designs that's how games work

[muted lantern]

In the og she was built like rom the vacuous spider

[ember river]

Pale King DLC 🗣️

[spark rain]

Someone in team cherry is into chubby women

[maiden meteor]

you have to get child support from Pale King

[terse warren]

All the siblings look extremely similar

[ember river]

Turns out the Pale King wasn't dead, he pulled a stunt like he did in Kingdom's Edge and he's just chilling at the Kingdom of Bug Bahamas

[spark rain]

also, herrah doesn't really look like she evolved from a pharlid

[edgy barn]

We see Widow and First Sinner, and while there are clear differences between them, they still follow the same rough body type as each other and the generic weavers

[honest anvil]

i just don't think it's unreasonable to think "yeah no herrah is a big girl" is somehow a bad explanation. maybe the pharlid she was converted from was really big. maybe she used to be whatever the big 2 damage guys in deepnest are

[maiden meteor]

deadbeat dad extraordinary

[muted lantern]

That's just the mask difference, the big dome head is just their mask

[edgy barn]

It is part of their body

[spark rain]

the horns too?

[ember river]

Those are (or were) an actual sentient tribe, probably from hallownest

They are said to worship Herrah

[rustic holly]

herrah can be explained in-universe as any combination of
-she wasn't uplifted from a pharlid
-she grew in size during her reign as deepnest's queen
-she's just built like that

[spark rain]

She even has a thorax

[muted lantern]

They are the same as hornets so yes, mask maker confirms hornet wears one

[ember river]

I think they are also the same species as Midwife

[honest anvil]

yeah but spider species tend to look reasonably similar so i'm just saying her original species would have been Like That One

[ember river]

Oh yeah, could have been

[maiden meteor]

Maybe GMS was experimenting with design

[terse warren]

We have no info about any weavers that aren't Pharlids

[ember river]

For all we know weavers are uplifted bugs, maybe Pharlids were just the most abundant bug when GMS arrived and that's why most of them came from

Or maybe she's just built different

[muted lantern]

Not entirely, it can be removed, herrah clearly chose a different mask than other weavers due to her station, masks do have magical properties so forcibly removing one is like tearing a face off

[ember river]

I still don't get why Herrah's body shape is that big of a deal, we get pretty clear, 100% confirmation that she is a full weaver

[honest anvil]

i do not disagree but we also don't know that much about weavers in general and there is plenty of potential here for explanations and expansion

[muted lantern]

I think it's just to determine if it's a retcon or not

[spark valve]

it's not a big deal it's just a retcon that happens

[ember river]

If it is who cares

[spark rain]

yeah

[ember river]

It's well enough integrated into the narrative and doesn't break any established lore

[spark rain]

but still... She chunky

[maiden meteor]

I think it’s fun to speculate why she’s like that

[green charm]

HEY

[maiden meteor]

retcon or not

[green charm]

That’s rude

[ember river]

It is fun, yeah, but some people build really strange, wide reaching theories around it

[spark rain]

i think this was also a debate for the original hk because that scuttling weaver looked so different from herrah

[maiden meteor]

maybe TC will bless us with faq session…

[ember river]

It's not that meaningful for the lore

[spark rain]

I'm into the chunkies

[edgy barn]

It would still be a retcon anyways. Herrah in the first game was described as a common beasts, while everything about the weavers presented them as special and distinct from the other deepnest creatures

[ember river]

Also, canonically, Grand Reeds are just Reeds who ate a lot

[muted lantern]

It's an interesting thing to discuss? To determine what changed over time? It's a cool topic? Discussing whether a retcon happened or not isn't inherently hate on the devs writing choices, I think it happened pretty smoothly and was very well done for a retcon.

[ember river]

So food has magic powers in the Hollow Knight universe apparently

[maiden meteor]

Herrah eated her husband

[ember river]

Flawless explanation

[muted lantern]

She is a spider

[spark rain]

Spiders do that

[muted lantern]

It's really funny to imagine that pk wasn't very close to hornet because her mom tried to eat him after they boned

[ember river]

That's why she was common bug, it was considered unsirely to eat fellow spiders, only lesser bugs

[maiden meteor]

oh btw Grand Reeds have interesting implications

someone taught them weaver fighting techniques

[edgy barn]

Nobody really debated that since there was no reason to think Herrah was a weaver, and it wouldn't have made much sense for reasons I already mentioned

[ember river]

Oh yeah, I always assumed it was some Weaver when they left them the mantle

[edgy barn]

Widow maybe?

[ember river]

Or even before, maybe they served as guards even back then

[honest anvil]

this actually isn't confirmed, i'm still of the opinion that herrah being 'a common beast' is because she (and the weavers) are outsiders to hallownest and as such are just commonfolk there. i do see the argument either way though

[ember river]

Widow served Silk, not really the citadel bugs

[maiden meteor]

PK is just racist to weavers

[ember river]

I thought about her too

[spark rain]

Wait I'm pretty sure that herrah being a weaver was well known way before silksong

wasn't it?

[edgy barn]

No?

[green charm]

Maybe Gamama Silk herself?

[green charm]

Apparently not, no

[spark valve]

the choir could have predated the conductors' rule anyways

[ember river]

Could also be that weavers didn't have any noble lineages, while the Deepnest Sire did have an aristocratic ascendancy

We've seen time and time again that aristocrats aren't really made out of any different paste, even though most monarchs are

[maiden meteor]

imagine some Hallownest’s aristocrat decided to smash Herrah

[muted lantern]

She was a common bug because she was a foreigner yeah, some strangers came and one married the deepest king

[honest anvil]

yeah they didn't have any lineage to speak of other than "being divine" which was known to be a lie by the time the weavers fled to hallownest
so like. they are just random bugs

[edgy barn]

The weavers had their own fancy den and midwife spoke of their special role

[muted lantern]

She just calls them the most intelligent species no?

[maiden meteor]

I mean one of them was Deepnest queen

so it makes sense they had fancy palace

[muted lantern]

And deepest is kinda a wild place, they probably built their own nest

[ember river]

Yep, they also couldn't really reproduce so they basically came into Hallownest as refugee wizard sisters from a far away kingdom

[maiden meteor]

I wonder why Herrah has her own den outside of weavers den

maybe she’s too big to fit inside weavers’

[edgy barn]

Almost like you wouldn't just group them in with all the other common beasts

[ember river]

She became somewhat of a ruler and was worshipped by Hallownest's Stalking Devouts, maybe that was like a palace

[maiden meteor]

Also interesting that weavers’ den has exact seal like on black egg

[ember river]

The spider version of one at least

[honest anvil]

having their own den doesn't mean anything - they can build their own house lmao - but does midwife say anything about them being treated as special? she calls them intelligent and capable, but like. a scientist isn't a king. your favourite tailor isn't the mayor

[edgy barn]

The weavers were involved with the vessel project yeah

[muted lantern]

They were common in the sense they weren't royalty, and she was a common bug before she married into royalty, and they are treated with reverence now because they are the sisters of the queen

[maiden meteor]

We now know that seals are made of silk but why would weavers have black egg seal replica?

early design?

[tawdry flare]

Prototype

[edgy barn]

There's evidence of weaver Silk being secretly transferred to PK

[maiden meteor]

also so much for weavers saying “prove you are more weaver than wyrm” while directly working with PK smh

[muted lantern]

They probably helped pk make the seals because of their experience, this is why he went out of his way to get herrah on his radiance task force, he needed the weavers

[spark rain]

because one of them became a dreamer?

all this just to fuh bruh

herrah was indeed a beast

[muted lantern]

Never had a bad coworker huh /j

[maiden meteor]

Probably in more ways than one

Just imagine poor King doing that

[muted lantern]

She totally tried to eat him

[narrow rapids]

i wonder if grimm troupe is related to wisp thicket in any way

[maiden meteor]

probably nay

[spark valve]

there's not really any connection indicated

[maiden meteor]

Trobbio is Grimm’s gay cousin tho

[spark rain]

is the beastfly somehow related to weavers?

[narrow rapids]

lol

[maiden meteor]

Trobbio really went full on doomer mode and became emo

[rain gate]

see my personal opinion on trobbio is that hes a sort of anti-grimm troupe

[spark rain]

you're the reason he got depressed.. how'd you feel about that huh??

[muted lantern]

The wisp thicket guys are probably a sort of pagan religion, considering pharloom is in a volcano I think it's worshipping base elemental forces. Might even predate gms

[rain gate]

he tries to reignite the flame of the kingdom to prevent the troupe from claiming it

[sand jolt]

he is a theatre bug after all

[narrow rapids]

wait i didnt think abt pharloom being in a volcano lol

[spark rain]

i wonder who the daddy is

[maiden meteor]

Some bug that burned himself

[spark rain]

Daddy is into some kinky shit

[maiden meteor]

iirc Father’s cradle has burnt bug remains inside

[muted lantern]

It was a mortal bug afaik, probably just a faith leader, the burning wicker man definitely has pagan implications

[maiden meteor]

“The remains of an aged bug were housed at the pyre's heart. The structure suggested they wished for immolation. If so, I have seen their wish granted.”

[quartz flicker]

https://twitter.com/SoraOpieOP/status/1971211750021452152 I think this is most likely to be the case. The HK universe is sort of like the LotR universe, but with bugs instead of humanoid races.

Jesus (@SoraOpieOP)

@AstroInfinite_ I don’t think there are “humans” in this world. I think everything and everyone is a bug, and it’s all made by bugs.

X · Sep 25, 2025, 1:54 PM

[maiden meteor]

Maybe Father had some strong emotions while dying which turned into wisp force

ascension through sacrifice

[quartz flicker]

No connection whatsoever to the actual world we live in.

[green charm]

I like this explanation

[spark rain]

nah it's clearly made by 3 australians

[quartz flicker]

Actually, a better point of comparison would be the Dark Crystal universe.

[maiden meteor]

Weavers are central point of Silksong because spiders are damn everywhere in Australia

[green charm]

Oooh
I love Dark Crystal

[spark rain]

Probably

It is such a small area with almost nothing

i hope to see a dlc about it

[rain gate]

the guys also explode after you kill father and dont respawn iirc

[green charm]

Weavers are Urskeks
Weavers are most definitely Urskeks
I will not be taking feedback at this time

[maiden meteor]

Wisp Thicket is probably the closest we have to bug-made God

[honest anvil]

wisp thicket feels like the hive in HK

[green charm]

-# Technically speaking Lost Kin is in the pantheon and that’s a construct

[maiden meteor]

pantheon has jumping husk too

[spark rain]

when i first entered wish thicket my immediate reaction to that enemy was "ooo grimm troupe!!"

[spark rain]

lord fool?

[green charm]

I do think there’s something going on with the fire

[maiden meteor]

Father of the Flame is like inexplicable force

[muted lantern]

Court of craws is funny because of the image of the craw justice system, imagine if you were on trial but you could get the charges dropped if you beat the entire court in a fight

[maiden meteor]

which as far as we know wasn’t created by any HB

[sand jolt]

They appear to worship the fire. As suggested by the needolin dialogue. “Dancing, dancing, burn away…” “Feed us, free us!” “Burn bright, Burn hot!” “Flare together” etc etc

[green charm]

The funnier part is that it’s probably happened at least once or twice

[maiden meteor]

you give them shinies and charges are dropped

[spark rain]

even their hoods

[green charm]

Something is most definitely up with fire in the HK universe

[maiden meteor]

I don’t think we ever see fire used casually

even Deep Docks use basically hot rocks

[green charm]

I wish we had a name for the planet/continent/realm/region(?) the 2 games take place in

[muted lantern]

Like she's on trial for killing craws, she proves her innocence by killing countless more craws, now she is friend of craws and they bring her gifts, it's truly an efficient diplomatic system "if we can't kill you, then you are innocent of all sin"

[spark rain]

The dudes in wisp thicket kinda look like that one dude in howling cliffs but without the crappy mask

[spark rain]

yeah, Australia

[green charm]

jokes aside

[maiden meteor]

I don’t think bugs have unified name for continent

“wastes” is best we could get

[green charm]

Probably because they’re so splintered

[maiden meteor]

because well, most of it is wastes

[spark rain]

is anything except hallownest even mentioned in hollow knight?

[green charm]

True

[rain gate]

no one individual has most likely ever seen more than two kingdoms

and even then two is a lot

[muted lantern]

Lands serene

[quartz flicker]

It's interesting. We haven't even gotten any indication of any celestial bodies in this universe.

[maiden meteor]

Lands Serene

lands of storm

[pseudo gazelle]

Just realized the mottled skarr looks quite similar to the royal guards you fight before karmelita. Do you think he was a last claw before he got cast out?

[spark rain]

Ah yes

[green charm]

There’s mention of the Weaver’s homeland (Pharloom) and Elder Hu came from somewhere else (also Pharloom, probably, seeing as Shakra and her Mentor are also named after their weapons and also wear yellow gi)

[quartz flicker]

Something called the "Blackbarrens".

[green charm]

Maybe slang for the wastes?

[spark rain]

lands serene is the one where everblooms originate right?

[rain gate]

shakra came from somewhere else though

[green charm]

Isn’t she situated close to Pharloom

[muted lantern]

Is Hu a weapon?

[maiden meteor]

naw, we also hear “Sandsea wastes” or smth

so it’s a distinct place

[pseudo gazelle]

Iirc yes but snail shamans mention it can grow elsewhere

[maiden meteor]

also City of Steel (idk if it’s namedropped in first game tho)

[limpid summit]

Zote, Cloth, Tiso are all foreign

[green charm]

It’s short for Chuí, I think
It’s a sort of hammer whose end resembles the weighted beads on his bracelet

[quartz flicker]

And Iselda and Cornifer

[maiden meteor]

do we know if Lemm is a native

[rain gate]

also her needolin dialogue "beyond land's bounds"

[green charm]

He kind of looks like that one hermit crab guy from some scrapped content

[green charm]

Hm

I learn something new every day

[tawdry flare]

Lomm will return in DLC…

[dapper willow]

is the "wastes are stealing minds" tidbit rearing up its head again?

[maiden meteor]

it seems to be true only for PK’s given mind

[dapper willow]

yes

People still seem to think its just relevant to every normal bug

[maiden meteor]

also even for Hallownest bugs wastes seem to give amnesia at worst

[rain gate]

which has been especially disproven by nameless town

[green charm]

You know I wonder
There seems to be mostly wastes and then small, concentrated hotspots with humongous biome variety and like 15 different individual civilizations popping up at once
What makes an area habitable? Like, is it just environmental factors? If so, why are the habitable areas so small?

[rain gate]

wyrm

[spark valve]

I mean water's kind of a big deal

[green charm]

There’s no wyrm in Pharloom though

[maiden meteor]

maybe it’s elevation or smth

[rain gate]

or just that sort of pale being in general

[edgy barn]

Hallownest had life before Wyrm

[maiden meteor]

like in Subnautica it’s mostly dead zone but then some spots have life

[green charm]

Again, why are the areas so small
You can run all the way across them on foot

[dapper willow]

maybe there are more packets of lush caves and civilisations that we just don't see

[spark valve]

why wouldn't they be the size that they are

[dapper willow]

because metroidvania
Silksong is not daggerfall
Or whats its name

[rustic holly]

seems like generally a habitability thing, the lands outside pharloom and hallownest are both vast deserts

[heavy gyro]

Theres more stuff in the background

[green charm]

It’s not HBs because the Verdanians, Ants and Mantises at least aren’t associated with any hb

[edgy barn]

Because the game is 2D.

[green charm]

Because rain clouds move a lot

[spark valve]

who said anything about rain

[rain gate]

what rain?

[spark rain]

There's RAIN IN HOLLOW KNIGHT!????

[rain gate]

land of storms is the only place where rain is mentioned ever

[spark rain]

yeah

[green charm]

Hm

[rain gate]

city of tears is because its directly below a lake

[green charm]

True

[spark rain]

city of tears is just the lake above

[maiden meteor]

batshit insane theory: proximity to void defines life too

[green charm]

ah ok spit your shit
Go on
I’ll listen

[dapper willow]

Hah

[spark rain]

Maybe every single land is a descendant of the ancient civvies

the ancient civilization was good at playing age of empires 2

[dapper willow]

I like to think there are a lot more lands we just don't see
Like there are mentions of steel city and whatnot

[sinful nimbus]

Why didn't PK build his kingdom on top of a volcano is he stupid

[maiden meteor]

City of Steel is probably super futuristic in comparison

[dapper willow]

the lava keeps the void at bay

[green charm]

Fact: Hollow Knight takes place in the world of one large, very long modded Civ 6 game

[spark rain]

yes, yes he is

[green charm]

Yea he’s like very dumb

[maiden meteor]

I mean these guys casually make robots wtf

[green charm]

He’s not stupid but he’s dumb, y’know

[rain gate]

so does pharloom

[dapper willow]

If team cherry makes their game any more futuristic I'm gonna riot
The weaver tech already felt bad to me

[compact zealot]

THE KNIGHT SHOWS UP??? WHAAA

[dapper willow]

Mhm
That he does

[green charm]

They’re not so technologically advanced, they’re animated via soul, but I don’t know if that’s more or less impressive

[maiden meteor]

Well, Architects seem to be a big deal in Pharloom

[compact zealot]

That was so fucking cool holy Jesus

[dapper willow]

cutscene only

[compact zealot]

my jaw literally dropped

[green charm]

It’s less tech and more steampunk-magic stuff

[dapper willow]

Pharloom tech seems to be somewhere in the early 20th century or late 19th century

[maiden meteor]

Flying cars in City of Steel trust

[dapper willow]

weavers are full on magic

[spark rain]

wait till you see goku

city of steel is just cyberpunk2077

[compact zealot]

Already did, that was pretty cool too ig

[maiden meteor]

Wait till you see Garmond glowup

[green charm]

Magic-Tech is a spectrum
Snail Shamans on one side, Cogwork core near to the middle if not leaning towards tech, I don’t think we’ve seen anything that’s sci-fi-ish yet

[spark rain]

also, are trobbio and seth the same species?

[green charm]

Mmmmm I could see it

[edgy nebula]

we do not know

[green charm]

They both have the shoulder fluff and antennae

[spark rain]

they look very similar

[maiden meteor]

Hornet with sandevistan

[edgy nebula]

their only real similarities are their cloaks and seth can take his off apparently

we dont know if trobbio can aswell though

[green charm]

Also RIP Seth
IRL Seth I mean
A shame he never got to play the game

[spark rain]

they are both bald, trobbio is just more shiny bald

[green charm]

Mayhaps they have Silksong in the afterlife

[dapper willow]

she can already do some flawor of flash step (which a lot of bosses like to do as well)

[tawdry flare]

Leth is still alive I think

[edgy nebula]

tormented trobbio deserves an attack where light reflects off of his head and instakills hornet

[whole estuary]

you’re thinking of Seth

[green charm]

Nah, he passed awhile back, if I remember correctly
Poor chap

[edgy nebula]

hes talking about seth goldman, i think

[green charm]

AH FECK I MIXED THE NAMES UP

I WAS TRYING TO BE SOMER
GRAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Somer? Somber

[dapper willow]

GARAMAAA

[maiden meteor]

Leth is a dev and Seth is Seth author (rip )

[rain gate]

https://tenor.com/view/reaction-my-eyes-cant-unsee-burn-gif-7225082

[spark rain]

man i fucking looked up matthew Leth Griffin wth

[green charm]

He doesn’t actually have any fireworks its just the light refracting off of his forehead so hot that it causes spontaneous explosions

[maiden meteor]

Leth peeking in this chat just to see people putting him to grave:

[edgy nebula]

never take him to hunters march

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-magnifying-glass-plankton-spongebob-magnifying-glass-burn-gif-27213632

[spark rain]

leth was in his grave for 7 whole years apparently

[green charm]

We have to kill Leth now

[maiden meteor]

Do you think Hornet fights Trobbio out of pity

dude’s probably super depressed lmao

[green charm]

The real reason all of Caramelita’s guards died

[green charm]

I think Hornet fights Trobbio because Trobbio is actively trying to kill her with at least 3 different kinds of explosives

[maiden meteor]

yeah but she never finishes him off

and she COULD

[modern hollow]

Cuz he's just that powerful

[green charm]

He’s just very convincing at playing dead

[spark rain]

Idk man hornet never seemed that much into trobbio

[green charm]

Die

[spark rain]

i want to turn purple when I'm depressed dude

[maiden meteor]

Horbbio ship we’re not ready for yet

[edgy nebula]

trobbio is actually a meta character and he knows hornet cant get him if he activates a cutscene

[dapper willow]

Trobio has an army's worht of explosives stored up somewhere

[modern hollow]

Headcanon that theres actually 2 trobbios one is just purple

[rain gate]

its interesting to me how having "the sight" or similar is depicted as having those scribbly eyes

[maiden meteor]

Trobbio Kaczynski

[rain gate]

mr mushroom in the ending cutscene, both mask makers, etc

[edgy nebula]

theyre probably just huge bug eyes but it is curious how we never see those in any other character

[green charm]

Fill your bathtub with food dye

[lethal burrow]

trobbio is the new zote

[spark rain]

nuh uh buddy boy

red + blue

trobbio used lifeblood

🫨🫨🫨

[maiden meteor]

Except he can actually throw hands

[modern hollow]

No he just likes purple

[edgy nebula]

trobbio is actually huge now that i look at it

mf is GIGANTIC

[spark rain]

bombs you mean

[green charm]

I have a theory that there are 2 Trobbios, one who is red and lively, and one that is blue and cripplingly depressed. Whenever we rematch red Trobbio, before the battle he does a fusion dance with blue Trobbio and they combine into a Trobbio that is only mildly depressed

[green charm]

And twisters

[edgy nebula]

my headcanon is that trobbio isnt actually depressed at all and he acts that way to try and get someone to actually show up to his show

[rain gate]

hes ✨ acting ✨

[maiden meteor]

Theatre kids amirite

[trim lark]

i would guess that hornet would more likely not want to end any battle with death, which usually isnt a valid thing to consider against haunted entities

but trobbio aint haunted and so she just lets him go

[green charm]

I have consulted with the counter of theatre kids and your execution is in 3 days

[spark rain]

The depressed one is more powerful than the lively one... What is team cherry trying to say here?

[trim lark]

that you have to become purple to become powerful

[edgy nebula]

he got more desperte to put on a good show, methinks

[maiden meteor]

Depressed people can summon bombs

[rain gate]

this is actually
she says shes relieved to not have to kill some things

[trim lark]

like big flea

[rain gate]

and pinstress

[edgy nebula]

crust king khann is so badass i hope he gets dlc

[trim lark]

yeah basically if theres any option she'll spare them

[green charm]

All of the most powerful people are purple

Barney, Thanos, Napoleon probably, I dunno I never saw him whilst he was alive

[maiden meteor]

Act 3 really gave everyone death wish huh

[green charm]

Did you play the first game?

[trim lark]

napoleon 😭

[rain gate]

actually on the topic of pinstress its so cool that we see second sentinel use the nail art needle strike that she uses

[green charm]

I think less NPCs die on average

[green charm]

Yea, he was infamously purple
Or, was that short?

[edgy nebula]

i assume they took their techniques since we know the citadel and pinstresses fought

[trim lark]

on the topic of second sentinel
why is their entire moveset stuff from other people
this has been bugging me since like day 2

[green charm]

Both
It was both
Definitely

[maiden meteor]

Like half of Silksong vendors die after you buy their stock

[rain gate]

training
they took their best warriors' skills and applied it to this

[green charm]

Every Cogwork enemy uses attacks from other people, right?

[rain gate]

didnt she say they used to work fir the citadel then they were kicked out?

[maiden meteor]

what’s the deal with cogwork wall crawlers having white palace spikes

[rain gate]

or am i schizoing right now

[green charm]

They realized that someone was probably going to parkour to get the architect’s piece of the threefold song so they made the most impotent security they could think of

[modern hollow]

So wait was most of tje pollution caused by the exhaust organ right

[maiden meteor]

Fourth Chorus uses second beastfly floor smash

[green charm]

Heck if I know dawg I haven’t got that far

[green charm]

True

[modern hollow]

I always thought thr cogwork enemies were just imitating other forms of life for the same purposes as the regular life

Like tjat one cog flier who mimics that one far fields enemy

[spark rain]

the mist was caused by exhaust organ

[trim lark]

but like second sentinel is on a whole other level
charged strike - pinstress
spin into a diagonal lunge - lace
the diagonal lunge itself - lace
projectile - shaman crest
the spin - karmelita
3 hit combo - karmelita (bit of a stretch ill admit)
parry - lace

[rain gate]

lace's parry too

[trim lark]

YEAH THAT TOO

[rain gate]

AHA
I FOUND IT

[modern hollow]

We never meet the first sentinel

[maiden meteor]

rest are lying dead in Second Sentinel arena

[trim lark]

i mean we see its lifeless corpse in the arena

[green charm]

-# It’s almost like you have to be trained martial arts

[trim lark]

along with what is presumably the third and fourth very dead sentinels

[modern hollow]

Okay but imagine if we used the needolin on them imagine the sentinel duo fight

[maiden meteor]

I wonder why they locked Second one

and put its heart apart

[trim lark]

but its a machine

also why would half of these guys train the citadel guys

[maiden meteor]

Maybe after haunting began Sentinels became a threat

and so they were discarded

[rain gate]

the lace ones were probably from pinstresses originally

then most of them vanished

like how each nail art in hk comes from a different master

[green charm]

No, I mean that similar moves will arise whenever warriors trade techniques and they blur into eachother
The 2nd Sentinel was probably trained by or made from someone who was familiar with the local styles of combat

[maiden meteor]

TC really robbed us of 2 more nail arts

[trim lark]

thats fair

[trim lark]

i mean we technically have like
7

[green charm]

-# Does floating count as a nail art

[maiden meteor]

Well, pinstress does that…

[spark rain]

"Termination, is the n-n-necessary fate of all those enthralled by the whispering Silk."

they resisted the haunting

[maiden meteor]

Ahh yeah

so it makes sense they were discarded

why disassemble the cogheart and hide it tho

instead of like smashing it

[trim lark]

they lowkey ripped out second sentinels heart and shoved them into a glass case for shits and giggles

[lethal burrow]

A bug who serves must never die

[trim lark]

and spread out the heart like a buried treasure

[green charm]

OH, SO THAT’S WHAT THE COGWORK HEART IS FOR

[modern hollow]

3 glass cases

[rain gate]

Are the sentinels bugs though?

[spark rain]

probably thought they could use it in the future if needed

[green charm]

I thought it was for a cogfly upgrade or something

[maiden meteor]

I think it might’ve been Architect of Vaultkeepers wanting to preserve the artifact

[trim lark]

thatd be crazy

[lethal burrow]

idk the robots seemed to have like souls in them so eh

[modern hollow]

I mean do robots dream of electric bugs?

[green charm]

I mean, they’re made out bug souls

[spark rain]

lmao 😭

[green charm]

Electric bugs…

Write that down

[maiden meteor]

Also it seems that Architect has more advanced “pristine” cogheart

[modern hollow]

Its a book reference

[trim lark]

related detour
sick bugs beyond repair become essentially silk
this silk somehow becomes the butterflies you see
they are present in every cogwork enemy
bug soul machine

[green charm]

I have likely not read that book
Plague upon your bloodline

[modern hollow]

You havent heard of androids dream of electric sheep?

[maiden meteor]

“soul freely given” as commandment says

[green charm]

Nope

[trim lark]

when you become a butterfly you either become damned to become a light fixture or eternal servitude to the cogwork core

[lethal burrow]

like seer

SORT OF

[green charm]

Caterpillars have it rough

[trim lark]

we're a bit
iffy on that

[modern hollow]

Also ik I dont exactly understand the language of pharloom but what does 4 beats smokerock have to do with deep docks

[maiden meteor]

or sent to Mist for whatever reason

[modern hollow]

Like what do all of those info boards mean

[spark rain]

i wonder why those lumaflies guide you through the mist

[trim lark]

they measure stuff based on musical notation for shits and giggles

[green charm]

That’s a unit of measurement

[lethal burrow]

they use music stuff as measurement.

It's basically the amount of supplies that's scheduled

[modern hollow]

Yea but whats a smokerock

smh /j

[trim lark]

not lumaflies

[spark rain]

sounds like a rock you smoke

[lethal burrow]

probably a stone

[green charm]

It’s that rock that flies off and then explodes whenever you strike it with your needle, I think

[modern hollow]

Thats flintslate

[trim lark]

one of the main metals they mine down in the docks
sweetsmelt and smokerock are the most common

[green charm]

Oh

[spark rain]

ah yes they are the electric ones

[trim lark]

flintslate is the tool youre looking for flintrock

[modern hollow]

But why is the smelt sweet you dont smell a rock thats used to forging metals

[spark rain]

so many flies and bugs has me confused and shit

[maiden meteor]

What if we rate Pharloom on OSHA compliance scale

[trim lark]

no not those 💔

[green charm]

Do you think Sweetsmelt is the craft metal?

[modern hollow]

No thats craftmetal

[trim lark]

idk why they named it that

[spark rain]

I meant from hollow Knight

[green charm]

We should make a YouTube video about this

[spark rain]

those things near uumuu

[trim lark]

probably not

[trim lark]

yes those are lumaflies

[modern hollow]

Like is a measure basically a cubic metre in pharloom

[maiden meteor]

Deep Docks probably get like 1/10

[trim lark]

we dont know

all we do know is they really like shovelling that shit into little black shell jars

[spark rain]

how tall is hornet

[maiden meteor]

1.5 Knights tall

[spark rain]

That's tall

[modern hollow]

Well thats prolly the smokerock my guess

[green charm]

I don’t know, there are guardrails and safety measures, plus they require their workers to wear protective gear

[trim lark]

this stuff was probably used in the manufacturing of bells, cogwork and the citadel itself

[modern hollow]

Considering the cauldron that's prolly used as tinder for forges

[maiden meteor]

hmmmm fair

[spark rain]

you fall, you disintegrate

[modern hollow]

Could be some alloy for all we knoe that mimics what we call brass

[trim lark]

theres also the unstable flintflame which we dont really know what the use is for

[spark rain]

you go inside a certain bell, you go to bell

[green charm]

How potent that protective gear is, is up for debate, seeing as it only covers their head

[modern hollow]

Or is brass

[trim lark]

i mean we know silver exists
they didnt bother naming it anything fancy

[green charm]

Bell
(Bell hell)

[maiden meteor]

I used bell to bell

[green charm]

That’s what the guard rails are for

[spark rain]

Yeah seeing those fuckers keep throwing rocks down, a helmet is very necessary

[trim lark]

every other mention of some type of ore is something that doesnt exist

then theres just fucking silver for some reason

[modern hollow]

Silver is that cool

[green charm]

Maybe the other types of rock are specific terms for a kind of mixed rock or ore?

[maiden meteor]

Deep Docks are also hella productive

[spark rain]

magnetite

[green charm]

Like, sweetsmelt would be a proper term for an ore of iron or something

[modern hollow]

Maybe its a local pharloom recipe for their metallurgy techniques

[maiden meteor]

they could fill entire bellways spanning entire Pharloom

[trim lark]

i believe flintrock is just its own ore

[green charm]

Then again, Forgedaughter also supplies magma bells which protect from heat

[modern hollow]

Cuz as far as we know that and the city of steel are the most advanced civilizations we know of

[spark rain]

ah yes that too

[trim lark]

magnetite is not an actual thing
magnesium is very similar but no

(in terms of spelling

[green charm]

I think the Underworks would actually be the worst OSHA-wise

[maiden meteor]

Hallownest was hella medieval and then there’s trams for whatever reason

[trim lark]

you pull up to work and have to run under fucking saw boxes

[spark rain]

You mean in the real world right?

[green charm]

I think moving blocks of buzzsaws without a shut off or warning is kind of a no no

[trim lark]

yea

[modern hollow]

Magnetite is real tho ..

[green charm]

True

[spark rain]

Fe3O4 is called magnetite

Or Fe2O3

[trim lark]

huh
my bad for spreading misinformation

[green charm]

Too late
We’re eating your soul

[spark rain]

yeah it's fe3o4

[modern hollow]

You're thinking of the pharloom magnetite

[trim lark]

does it do the magnet stuff

[green charm]

https://tenor.com/view/harry-harry-potter-dementors-kiss-gif-11979674

[spark rain]

no

[trim lark]

whys there just a flashbang when it loops

[spark rain]

It is magnetic but doesn't form breakable platforms

[green charm]

I just work here buddy

[spark rain]

flintslate is just flint and steel from Minecraft

blatant copy booooo team cherry

[green charm]

Flintslate? More like… flintsteel

[modern hollow]

I find it really neat that bell eater is heavily inspired by king worm from metroid zero

[spark rain]

Another blatant copy

How far can they fall?

Are there any more "references" smh

[green charm]

The main character of SS is actually just a blatant rip-off of the boss Hornet from Hollow Knight

Down to the cloak

[spark rain]

I am shaking and crying rn

[shell jewel]

Are the judges in blasted steps actually bugs? they give off a mechanical impression. the last judge explodes in a fiery hellscape when it dies and the other judges just stand still until a sinner passes by and they have this sort of "activation" prompt. Are they actually organic bugs or just machines? Sherma even says this

[sinful nimbus]

They are bugs, you can see their juvenile form in a hidden room

[whole estuary]

In the room to the left of the bellway, look above the door for a hidden wall

[shell jewel]

since the judges only eliminate those who are sinful and impure, this mist confirn that sherma is pure and free of sin and malice

according to the judges

[shell jewel]

@sinful nimbus I know of that room and the bugs have the judge shaped head but then why does the last judge just explode and leave behind its armor when it dies

[edgy barn]

She inmolates herself in a last ditch attempt to kill Hornet.

[sinful nimbus]

The censer is what explodes iirc

[green charm]

Shoutout to everyone who’s died to that

[gritty ruin]

What’s the flea lore

[terse warren]

I don't think that was on purpose

[shell jewel]

I asked someone in #sk-discussion-2 the same question and they said "it's the incense whip filled with fire that explodes, the corpse is just turned to ash" is he correct and it's not the judge's body that explodes?

[gritty ruin]

Big furball

[gentle aspen]

The judges aren’t really a non biased party

[plush oyster]

Is it true that the Widow isn't a full-blooded Weaver??

[edgy barn]

Not likely. Her needolin dialogue implies she is a first generation weaver.

[muted lantern]

She's a regular weaver that got basically lobotomized

[plush oyster]

Oh i see, thank you! I wonder who's the Weaver in quarter part that was staked into submission then

[waxen forum]

smh how did hornet get captured by the pokey stick boys

she managed to kill most of a full chamber of soldiers (however many that is) and lost to the pokey boys?

[edgy nebula]

i wish we got more info on crust king khann

[ember musk]

is this a weaver?

[waxen forum]

speaking of which, this same choral commandment implies that the Pale King is the only white wyrm

[green charm]

Probably not, seeing as how their faceplate is flat and has points

[swift stump]

It’s theorised that this is actually one of the conductors because if you play your needolin they sing a melody that’s similar to the conductors melody (haven’t confirmed this for myself yet, read it online)