sk-lore

[proud lark]

even though idk how jiji would fit in that armor

[rancid dagger]

Combine that with the fact that weavers have a hard time reproducing and it makes a lot of sense why Herrah would sacrifice herself to become a dreamer in order to have a child with a higher being like the pale king

[proud lark]

i like this take

[rancid dagger]

also supported by a rune harp im p sure

the eva being a failed attempt at divinity part

[proud lark]

fits with evas theme of looking and talking about imprisonment and all, likeshe was supposed to lock something up

[rancid dagger]

also she says she feels a certain similarity to hornet when meeting her even tho eva recognizes people by their crests

[bright igloo]

Is GP a grasshopper? He and his people have mantis vibes but I don’t think their supposed to be those

[pulsar python]

The fact Hornet's natural urge is too rule over Pharloom despite her own wishes, and the fact that everything goes wrong for her makes me wonder

Do the Pale King's genes actually do anything good ever

[rancid dagger]

who

[pulsar python]

My favourite silksong character green brince

[proud lark]

makes you cracked at sword fighting

[rancid dagger]

i mean it's thanks to the pale king's genes that she stays alive to act as hallownest's protector after its fall and why she can bind grandmother silk

actually maybe not maybe weavers just live a long ass time on their own since widow and the weaver from hollow knight are a thing

[proud lark]

i dont think we ever see a weaver who died out of age in both games

[safe torrent]

let me get this straight:
the basic ending is hornet kills gms and becomes queen of pharloom, in which case she can do wahtever she wants with the silk

while the true ending is hornet wrecks pharloom and kills half the population, but at least she can go home now

[proud lark]

unless you consider the weavers in the deepnest weavernest to die from age but they look pretty young (didnt reach first sinner/widows size)

[pulsar python]

I'm pretty sure that's the White Lady's genes cause Hornet clearly had to be trained by Vespa

[rancid dagger]

i wonder how first sinner died tbh since her fight is already in a dream

[safe torrent]

also yeah what happened to the weaver in deepnest since we KNOW theres one alive there as of hk

[proud lark]

then makes you cracked at super meat boy

[bright igloo]

Green prince (typo lol)

[rancid dagger]

basic ending: hornet binds GMS and seems to take her place as primal source of silk, but it is implied that she has a power seeking nature so probably she keeps the haunting going on

twisted child ending: no fucking clue we need more insight on the parasite

true ending: hornet wrecks half of pharloom BUT she actually deals with GMS and puts a full end to the haunting and the citadelle's shenanigans

[sage summit]

Did pharloom actually expect pilgrims to get all the melodies? holy shit pharloom is E V I L

[rancid dagger]

ah yeah he seems to be

[proud lark]

is it? i thought she kinda just petrified with time

[woven belfry]

What does the Citadel even consider a sin

[safe torrent]

so the haunting doesnt stop with the basic ending its just hornet is in charge now

i see

[pulsar python]

This is written like Hornet doesn't Haunt Pharloom in the same way as Silk and doesn't actually get to be her self, instead becoming an exact copy of her father

[rancid dagger]

the melodies aren't for pilgrims tho that's just to get to the cradle, the pilgrimage doesn't reach there

[proud lark]

thats why i dont think the weavers in hk died of age, bc that one guy alive seem to be keeping stuff in order

[rancid dagger]

it's a dream since you wake up right outside after dying, you dont lose the run on steel soul, your tools are refunded for free etc etc which only happens on dreams or well i guess its memories actually

[pulsar python]

I'm pretty sure it's deliberately made to be a death trap to stop anyone getting to silk

[proud lark]

oh damn i didnt k now that

[rancid dagger]

"rare chosen" yeah the pilgrimage wasn't supposed to get that far

[proud lark]

i beat first sinner first try in both regular and steel soul run so i didnt evne know you wake up outside the cage

[rancid dagger]

that's probably just the system the weavers made to make sure you were the real deal if you reach silk

[sage summit]

Every day I thank the pale king more

[solid elk]

He can magically control coral and also whatever 'Power' the Crusted Heart had is....sometjing.

[proud lark]

the pale king just did a bad job at being evil it doesnt mean hes not evil

[pulsar python]

Thank you pale king for not being an actual genocidal maniac and just being a neglectful ruler 🙏

[rancid dagger]

Isma could magically control plants and shit too but she was just a dudette

[proud lark]

the ever so trusty pile of dead kids:

[solid elk]

Silk is tied to Soul. Void and Lifeblood are their own things. Essence and Nightmare Flames are tied something.

Idk if the Four Hearts Hornet can collect are just their own things or also tied to something supernatural as well.

[pulsar python]

Dude the Pale King caused the problems for his kingdom because he wiped out the moth clan

[rancid dagger]

the four hearts are silk

[sage summit]

Hey hey, he mightve committed mass infanticide and sent his cherished son to suffer for eternity. BUT he didnt make me pay fuckin 30 beads just to confess my sins and 15 to have a BENCH

[solid elk]

Being able to use magic makes one "Not just a dude," as that is wild af. Normal bugs can't do that

[pulsar python]

If they were allowed to stay Radiance wouldn't be that mad

[sage summit]

also public transport WAS FREE

well actually it wasnt

[rancid dagger]

snail shamans can use magic, also compared to a higher being it is just a dude

also we dont know how much the void and lifeblood are related

[pulsar python]

He put his tram in the middle of section 8

[rancid dagger]

remember the lifeblood place in the abyss with that creature inside

[solid elk]

I mean before, in the past when the Haunting was not a thing. What gave them the supernatural power they had?

[safe torrent]

at least hallownest didnt get 1984d it just got wrecked by a plague (as kingdoms typically do)

[pulsar python]

Oh no it also got 1984'd, arguably moreso

[proud lark]

this is how yall sound right now glazing pale king as if he didnt kill uncountable amount of kids and tortured the one he did choose

[sage summit]

Look the pale king didnt subjugate every other race, he coexisted. Pharloom literally turned green princes boyfriend into an automaton for shits and giggles

[rancid dagger]

silk hearts are just big concentrations of soul silk as far as i can tell

[solid elk]

Snail Shamans are not just dudes. They literally are Sorcerers. A normal entity cannot do what they do, thus making them special

[solid elk]

He did push the boundaries of Unn's people, didn't he?

[sage summit]

mightve forgotton that 💀

[proud lark]

that reminds me, now with silksong, do you guys think snail shamans are part void?

[pulsar python]

Wow, so we're just going to ignore the genocide of the Moth Clan. Wow, Hallownest.

[rancid dagger]

im gonna become a ceiling decoration

[proud lark]

there was some evidence to that in hk, but i think their nature being connected to void as said at the start of act 3 givesit more evidence

[proud swan]

everybody, is B ending still unaccessible? the secret one

[rancid dagger]

NO SNAIL SHAMANS ARE NOT VOID

[sage summit]

Look all im saying is at least its not as bad as pharloom

[pulsar python]

He MURDERED PEOPLE

[solid elk]

To be fair, Hornet does too

[mental roost]

yeah but those were his children

[sage summit]

Like he wasnt evil cuz he wanted to be evil, he did care for his kingdom. Flawed king

[proud lark]

b-b-but... void crawling into snail shells fits thematically...😿

[rancid dagger]

snail shaman dialogue

[pulsar python]

Yeah but to be fair those people attack her first most of the time, Pale King did it because he didn't want Radiance stealing his clout

[sage summit]

but pharloom out here trapping pilgrims into wage slaving FOREVER. Literally killing multiple races

[proud lark]

ok maybe hallownest shamans were pussies then bc in pharloom their first option was to summon the abyss to a minor inconvenience

[solid elk]

HK Snail Shaman also shows less proclivity for using void than the SS ones. It may be the HK one was isolated and less into the death magic than the SS ones

[pulsar python]

If he cared for his kingdom why did he run away like a pussy instead of going down with the ship

[mental roost]

"minor inconvenience"

[sage summit]

ok true he did kinda run away like a bitch

[rancid dagger]

that's pretty debated here to whether it's a retcon that snail shamans are void worshippers, since the snail shamans and hornet talk as if that's a known thing so it's not just a difference between hallownest and pharloom shamans

[pulsar python]

And he left his wife behind btw

Nice going pale king

[proud lark]

in hk snail shamans seem pretty chill with implications of them being kinda evil in the past, in pharloom they have a recipe for spells that uses alive bugs for it

[rancid dagger]

but snail shamans being void worshippers directly contradicts this part where it's implied they dont even know about void power

[mental roost]

what else do you do when you run out of solutions

dying with everyone else won't solve shit

[proud swan]

well they could be void worshippers and not know about the abyss

[solid elk]

Worshipper is a strong word for how they described it.

[sage summit]

He did leave his son to deal with the infection 0_0

[proud lark]

i dont think they worship it but tehy def dabbled with it in the past and in the present in pharloom

[solid elk]

Using necromancy once does not make someone a necromancer

[pulsar python]

It's not like he ran away to another kingdom for help, he hid in a dream which meant he could do nothing else to help

[rancid dagger]

it's not the abyss the void spells are the knight's void nature imbued into the normal spells, so if he knew about void power he'd have at least recognized that and not said "wherever you draw this from"

[pulsar python]

And even then he hid himself in a dream right next to the abyss like a fool and the void dextered him

[solid elk]

It could be a fetish.

[pulsar python]

Y'all sleeping on void tendrils

[proud lark]

they talk about shamans being interested in the void like its a known fact (which actually might be why theyre under disguise when walking outside)

[proud lark]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-computer-notebook-explaning-gif-21152267

[pulsar python]

Also yeah the Shaman's do have some sort of void use in HK, otherwise Desolate Dive and (I think?) shade soul wouldn't make sense as you learn them from shaman corpses

[rain gate]

yeah its those two i think

[pulsar python]

I assume they overused void and got taken over

[proud lark]

its kinda weird with how pharloom directly contradicts it, if in hk they were very disconnected from the void here tehy talk about it like the experts

[rancid dagger]

it's implied you imbue your void nature into the shamans' spells, but not that they used void spells

[rancid dagger]

which is why people argue it's a retcon of snail shamans

[solid elk]

Desolate Dive being what it is and the single living Shaman in HK not knowing about void much implies he might literally be so divorced from his family that he doesn't know.

Like, the family fetish may not have awakened in him

[pulsar python]

But you'd already have the spells from other sources, why would you need shaman corpses to imbue void

[proud lark]

idk if it requires a retcon, it makes sense of the snail shamans in hk to just not know the void well in current day bc of how the pale king sealed it away

[pulsar python]

(I meant descending dark not d dive btw)

[rancid dagger]

he recognizes the power from his aunt i think it was so it's not that he didn't know about her ability, but he doesnt know about void power

[solid elk]

Abyss Shriek uses void from the Abyss, so that is fair

[vague whale]

why is everyone forgetting that that snail shaman lies to you

[mental roost]

the knight changes howling wraiths into abyssal shriek, but descending dark and shade soul were found as is

[rancid dagger]

think of it as in you find a better version, more compatible with the void within the knight

[pulsar python]

Yeah Abyss Shriek is also external void

[rancid dagger]

which is why even if he doesn't know about void powers he recognizes her aunts power within ddark

[solid elk]

Tbh, he could just be lying. The shamans may well all be lying most of the time and only showed their true selves when they could do so safely

[vague whale]

exactly, and we already know the HK shaman lies to us so it's very likely he's just also lying about that

[proud lark]

i dont think its a 5d chess thing, usually youd be given contradictory information if someone lied to you so you could figure out its a lie, like for example the hollow knight being empty, even though its said, youregiven a lot of information to negate that saying
since youre not given any contradictory information theres no reason to assume hes lying, its very reaching

[pulsar python]

It could also be taking external void from the shamans, the one in Soul Sanctum seems to be leaking something

[rancid dagger]

you can't really assume the only source of information you have is lying without a reason just because he lied when he did have a reason tho

[vague whale]

we have now been given contradictory information in silksong, though

[rancid dagger]

it's just tied up there's no leaking in the sprite

[proud lark]

i dont think that counts

[solid elk]

Tbh, if the Steel people were in the base game, it may well have not seemed like this retcon was necessary. They literally use the void and maybe were going to be involved prior to the cut content.

This is heavy speculation

[rancid dagger]

just like we were given even more contradictory information about voidheart, it's just a retcon

[vague whale]

I'm telling you why it's not a retcon

[mental roost]

these lines only explain shade soul, but not descending dark

[solid elk]

Voiheart is contradictory? Hmm?

[vale plover]

Why are we called to the crows' court tho?

[proud lark]

they dont use void, they seem to be directly against it, the guy who used v oid did it intenionally to escape the steel clan, and for using void they said theyre gonna chase him to the end of the world

[rancid dagger]

same thing applies? they are obtained the same way

[proud lark]

they seem to be opposing force, the void consumes all and doesnt elaborate, teh steel clan is all about recordingand keeping track of everything

[rancid dagger]

you find a source of power within the shaman and then you twist it to upgrade the spell

[rancid dagger]

have you done true ending?

[vale plover]

Chat

[rancid dagger]

you caused pharloom to basically begin to implode and they put you on trial

[proud lark]

same logic applied, i dont see why every single spell upgrade would have differnet explanation to its nature when theyre all intentionally similar

[mental roost]

except they make no such comment on descending dark being twisted, they identified that it was from their aunt

[solid elk]

I'm confused. I thought Steel Soul Jinn was explicitly talking about the Masters using void, and the Masters bring the heads of their organization?

We maybe got more lore in this version of Steel Soul then

[proud lark]

they wanted to aura farm at the end of the world

[solid elk]

Knight/Shade Lord saves Hornet, I know

[rancid dagger]

the comment doesn't need to be made, the spells are obtained the exact same way, he recognizes the source of power from his aunt, not ddark itself

[proud lark]

i dont remember her exact dialogue but i think shes referringot the little guy as her master like hes the person in command of her, but i dont rmember so i cant tell

[lethal burrow]

*craws

and it's to answer for hornets crimes for causing the void, they think her responsible which she is sort of, and so they wish to pass their judgement

[rancid dagger]

they attack the void, but void heart is supposed to unify the void under the knight's will, basically making the void a part of the knight

[solid elk]

Wait, isn't Confessor JiJi also part of that group?

[rancid dagger]

so they shouldn't have needed to attack the void tendrils

[vale plover]

Bruh
From all the things we've met it's the crows that get mad ? Lmao

[vale plover]

Why don't the ants do anything like that

[proud lark]

its speculation but from information given in silksong she seems to have taken a similar path of the guy in silksong, neglected the steel clan and went to deal with void

[solid elk]

Wild how they expected Hornet to come when they sent a threatening letter.

[rancid dagger]

the ants seem more tribalistic while the craws seem to have an actual society defined

[vale plover]

Also what bug are the crows supposed to be?

[lethal burrow]

craws

[rain gate]

they dont have as active a leader anymore like the craws do

[rancid dagger]

you just typed it

[vale plover]

Wich is interesting

[proud lark]

the ants are pretty much at the end of their times, similar to how the coral people are all dead or regressed to non intellegent

[rancid dagger]

not really, ants aren't organized since karmelita is basically on life support and they don't have an active queen

[solid elk]

Do void tendrils still attack the Knight with the Voidheart in the sea of Void in the first game?

[rancid dagger]

you can see on karmelita's memory the ants seem to be more organized

[proud lark]

the ants prob ruled the entirety of far fields at one point so they do seem to dwindle down

[kindred verge]

no

[rancid dagger]

no, the void heart pacifies everything in the void since it's now under your will

[solid elk]

I think the Ants had a robust society going off of the Karmelita thing, but the Haunting reslly tucked them over

[vale plover]

There are bugs called craw? Googled, found nothing

[rancid dagger]

which is also why you need it to become the void given form and void given focus

[vale plover]

Oh

[rancid dagger]

they got tucked even pre haunting just from citadelle shenanigans

and then it's just karmelita getting old

[solid elk]

HK bugs are not always based on real world bugs.

[rancid dagger]

they are just crows

[rain gate]

see: grimm

[proud lark]

both seem to have similar setup, thats why my theory is that jiji was part of the steel clan, they also look similar

[lethal burrow]

Maybe their crabs

[solid elk]

They aren't LITERALLY crows, but are functionally crows

[rancid dagger]

they are based on real world bugs just not accurately

just like fleas are based on fleas but have 0 similarities to them

[vague whale]

just like mites are functionally rats

[lethal burrow]

crawfish, crawdads.

They do spend their time around the lake

[vale plover]

They were way more based on real world bugs in HK

Idk the craws make me feel like it's not about bugs anymore

[proud lark]

they are based on real bugs but they dont abide to real world logic, its all just for fun

[rancid dagger]

how are the fucking birds gonna be crabs 😭

[teal drift]

Were the jellyfish about bugs

[kindred verge]

broadly "arthropods" rather than bugs

and even HK had slugs

[lethal burrow]

The mantis were mantis in name only

[kindred verge]

and jellies yeah

[solid elk]

We have no idea what bugs most of the named characters are, if they are, based off of. Or even things like Fayforn, which is based off bird but it clearly an arthropod.

[rancid dagger]

mantis are probably among the most accurate tbf

[vale plover]

Yeah but craws tho

[lethal burrow]

I'm thinking of the mantis Lords

[rancid dagger]

we have pretty good guesses on most and they are still based on bugs

[vale plover]

They looked mantis enough

[teal drift]

Feel like the bug thing in HK was always more of a vibe than a definitive worldbuilding rule.

[kindred verge]

as mentioned, "crawfish" are a lobsterlike critter IRL

[teal drift]

What are crawlids even tbh. Rolly polies?

[kindred verge]

isopods, yeah

[vale plover]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-sad-monkey-sad-gif-11580596938105345223

[cloud mesa]

is there any greymoor lore like do we know whats up with these birds

[patent sinew]

we can discuss spoilers here right

[teal drift]

I find it funny to imagine the birds are the mafia

[kindred verge]

no, Lost Lace will execute you if you spoil

[rancid dagger]

check pins if you dont know whether you can discuss spoilers in a specific channel

[vague whale]

they kinda are

[vale plover]

Kratt becomes the new leader of pharloom

[teal drift]

The craws are Probably just yet another indigenous group, but one that made a deal with the citadel to survive.

[patent sinew]

i checked here and didn't see it, assumed it would be there

[solid elk]

Craws are not so weird when you see how Fayforn is clearly bird inspired as well.

Also, Fayforn has literal feathers

[mental roost]

i can't accept it because descending dark is the outlier when the others get explicit mentions of the spell being modified

[vale plover]

Also who else kept their hornet statue

[proud lark]

yeah about that

[teal drift]

And their culture had some role in the greymoor social order i guess.

[cloud mesa]

fayforn looks a bit more buggy

[teal drift]

All ensouled people

[rancid dagger]

it is not an outlier it's just comprehension

[teal drift]

The real question is who didnt destroy flicks bridge accidentally?

[rancid dagger]

you are making it an outlier by saying it's different when it's obtained the same way

[vague whale]

I feel so bad about this now

[kindred verge]

i destroyed it on purpose after getting walljump

[mental roost]

it's an outlier because the snail shaman doesn't say anything

[patent sinew]

anyway my question because me and my friend are having a discussion, my friend thinks the void has no corruption or influence on the knight and that his actively choosing to chill in the void and that it is general consensus that everyone thinks. While i think the knight is being corrupted or influenced by the void in some sense

[lethal burrow]

They remind me of the court of owls

[teal drift]

I thought i discovered a secret exit when i broken flicks bridge lmao

[rancid dagger]

why is it that void spell 1 we "get" from a snail shaman is twisted by us but void spell 2 we "get" from a snail shaman is not twisted by us

[patent sinew]

it was 100% a court of owls reference

[solid elk]

Trobbio is just a mortal Grimm who chose theater instead of a Nightmare God

[cloud mesa]

in the way that they're birds?

[graceful grail]

Related??

[lethal burrow]

That's an idea I have not heard mention before it's sort of interesting

[vague whale]

because snail shaman a liarrrrrr

[rancid dagger]

you accept that you get the source of power from the shaman and void it yourself on shade soul, so why do you need to be told explicitly about ddark when you already have an example of how it goes

[lethal burrow]

no?

[graceful grail]

Same antenna

[patent sinew]

which that his chilling in the void or infected or corrupted

[vague whale]

Uh. No

[graceful grail]

The one on left has most of it covered by hat

[lethal burrow]

Infected corrupted

[solid elk]

Same species (potentially) does not mean relation.

We are all the same species, but most of us are not related.

[vague whale]

No they're literally just not even the same antenna

[solid elk]

A LOT of pilgrims seem to be the same species, but came from widely different places

[graceful grail]

So, we agree probably same species??

[lethal burrow]

(don't tell this to green prince incest advocates)

[tropic arrow]

And last I checked, Pavo doesn't have wings, unlike Trobbio

[solid elk]

I dont think that matters either way

[vague whale]

They're pretty obviously not the same species

[solid elk]

Idk if species even matters THAT much for reproduction in this universe

[graceful grail]

Uh, he made his wings

[kindred verge]

Pavo is obviously the juvenile form of Trobbio's species /s

[vague whale]

The masks aren't even remotely similar either

[lethal burrow]

Not every face is a mask

The mask maker from the first game told us this guy come on

they're different.

[vague whale]

their faces then sure. ugh

[rancid dagger]

not every face is a mask but not every mask is artificial we see first sinner was born with their mask

[lethal burrow]

ye

[vague whale]

do we specifically know whether pavo has a face or a mask? no? then who cares

[tropic arrow]

to be fair, and I'm not advocating for it, from what I can tell, some people are saying that because they asked translators about it. It's also just sorta unclear and could be interpreted that way.

Probably a soulmates type of deal, but the other possibility is not a 0%

[graceful grail]

So was Widow then, before it was somehow “Forcibly Removed”

[lethal burrow]

If it's a mask, it covers his entire head so might as well call it a helmet at that point

[kindred verge]

i just leave the wincest crowd to their fantasies, it's the safest option

[solid elk]

Big ass ball head weaver ass

[vague whale]

he's wearing an actual hat on top of that too

[rancid dagger]

so does hornet's and the knight's

[graceful grail]

What were the masks Hornet gets made of?? It said in it’s description but i cant remember

[lethal burrow]

Do people think hornet has a mask?

[rancid dagger]

she explicitly says she does

[tropic arrow]

Thinking about Bug anatomy is a path that leads only to insanity, and is a path best left alone.

[sinful nimbus]

Where?

[solid elk]

This being controversial despite the PK literally dropping babies into the Abyss is wild

[lethal burrow]

whence

[graceful grail]

She has Mask(s) over her shell

[kindred verge]

also mechanically Hornet absolutely has a mask

several in fact

[pulsar owl]

Yall

[rancid dagger]

mask maker dialogue when unmasked

and he says this while masked

[pulsar owl]

Rate the act 4 i made (IT TOOK SO LONGGG)

[solid elk]

Having a mask doesn't mean you can (safely) take if ofd though. We gotta remember that masks you are born with tend to, ya know, be part of your body.

[tropic arrow]

Hornet: You have the sight, Maker. Tell me what you see in me?
Mask Maker: Your mask... It reads clear enough, Old One. Watcher, hunter, monarch even, though you may reject that station.

[graceful grail]

Also, SHELL means entire body because the psysisist needed the specific pins to pierce Hornets but he used them on her waist area. Not her head

[pulsar owl]

Act 4 The Loom Beyond
after being carried back to the surface hornet begins to sense threads tugging at her threads not of silk but of memory and fate a hidden realm the Loom Beyond reveals itself a space where all silks spun and severed throughout Pharloom gather It’s half dreamscape half machine woven from every struggle hornet has endured
The balance restored in act 3 is fragile Though lace is freed the voids whisper persists leaking into the Loom Beyond This realm holds Pharloom’s secret origin it was never just a kingdom but a loomprison meant to contain something older than the Radiance or Void

[cloud mesa]

okay but like a literal mask or figurative mask 😭

[solid elk]

Widow had their mask removed, IIRC

[rancid dagger]

literal

[vague whale]

Hornet has mask yup

[pulsar owl]

RATE IT

[tropic arrow]

like yes, obviously Hornet has a mask, why is this a question?

[cloud mesa]

but like a mask that she can take off or is that what her face is just called

[vague whale]

0

[pulsar owl]

🙁

[ancient sinew]

Hornet isn’t wearing an actual mask

[rancid dagger]

masks in HK arent literally just irl masks

[sinful nimbus]

"Mask" when talking to mask maker is referring to "crests" as the weavers and eva call it, a description of her own nature

[solid elk]

Hornet could rip her own mask off, but why wouod she do that? That is literally tearing off most of your face

[lethal burrow]

Fanfiction?

[pulsar owl]

yh

[ancient sinew]

Mask is used as a term similar to crest in this context

[pulsar owl]

OH YE BTW

[ancient sinew]

Please take it out of this channel thanks

[lethal burrow]

she's wearing a literal non-actual mask

[pulsar owl]

I MADE 5 6 AND 7 TO

[rancid dagger]

that's just what masks are

[graceful grail]

You cant remove your shell because it is your literal body

[pulsar owl]

Act 5 lore the frayed horizon
the horizon

the horizon is not a place in pharloom not even hallownest it is the edge of pattern itself
pharloom was a loom that wove kingdoms into being holding them together with silk
hallownest was not made by pharloom but its existence was threaded through the loom
the horizon is where these threads fray drifting into nothing where no radiance void or pattern has sway

[lethal burrow]

Seven is a dangerous one I heard they ate nine

[vague whale]

I really would've thought "does Hornet wear a mask" wouldn't be something people could have stupid things to say about

[pulsar owl]

.

[ancient sinew]

why are we posting fanfic

This is the lore channel

[lethal burrow]

we? Who is the second person doing it?

[vague whale]

this is not a fanfic channel we are here to discuss lore

[pulsar owl]

where do i post fanfic

[solid elk]

You can probably skin a bug by temove the external layer of she shell. Exoskeletons have layers

[kindred verge]

because there isn't a fanfic channel ig

[pulsar owl]

why yall so damn mad

[lethal burrow]

Standard discussion

[sinful nimbus]

No

[lethal burrow]

Brother, I just asked why you were posting it

[proud lark]

🐺 grrr... do NOT mess with us loreheads... we will CRY

[vale plover]

If I was in SS I'd be kratt

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet does not physically wear a mask, her own nature is described as a mask by mask maker. There's a difference

[graceful grail]

Yeah, but we dont see anyone do that, not even the Hunter Skarr did it to his victims

[vague whale]

why would you admit to this

[rancid dagger]

cause she was born with her mask just like first sinner was (dont know if we can extrapolate this to all weavers)

[proud lark]

i think all bugs wear a mask

[kindred verge]

if i was in SS i would be dead (lore-accurate)

[ancient sinew]

It’s called nosism but go off I guess

[vale plover]

if I was in SS I would be kratt.

[proud lark]

i dont understand what mask maker does if all bugs have mask by default though

[vague whale]

why would you admit to this of your own free will?

[vale kelp]

We know what you mean.

[lethal burrow]

Not everyone is born with one apparently

[sinful nimbus]

That's not what Mask Maker is talking about

[lethal burrow]

Yeah, take that fucking tomato back

[rancid dagger]

not all do

[pulsar owl]

sowwy

[vale kelp]

@pulsar owl do you WANT to get a warning for react spamming?

[cloud mesa]

bugs that are stupid arent born with them and the mask maker needs to make them masks t ogive them inteligence i thoguht

[vague whale]

bro stop spamming tomato reacts

[proud lark]

interesting

[pulsar owl]

CAN I GET WARNED FOR THAT?!! +!?

[lethal burrow]

He's being too emotive that I throw him out the side of the ship

[solid elk]

I think it is not difficult to extrapolate given every firstborn weaver seeming to have a ball ass head. Herrah being different is weird though

[vague whale]

it's spamming bro ofcourse you can

[vale kelp]

Depends how spammy

[vale plover]

https://tenor.com/view/loufy42-light-yagami-death-note-gif-15248803

[cloud mesa]

do u need a mask +wyrm light to get intellgenic e in hallownest or is it either/or

[lethal burrow]

I think the original mask maker's lore was too weird and confusing everyone just forgot about

[rancid dagger]

the mask is basically what makes a more person like bug different from a primitive bug as far as i understand, it's what gives you your nature

[proud lark]

i was wondering actually
iirc masks are tied to your identity, no? so for example, how does seth just rnadomly lose his memory (ik its not random) without losing his mask?

[sinful nimbus]

I mean the beast also had a crest

[proud lark]

the role of masks is very weird

[vale plover]

So much to know about this game

[teal drift]

Id be kratt because im a small business owner who doesnt negotiate on their fees. He doesnt do anything else right?

[vale kelp]

Masks are like such an obvious metaphor for masking i feel though like that when you take off their mask they actually talk to you?

[rancid dagger]

seth is more about him failing his task of protecting nyleth's shrine basically removing him from the role of guardian and thus turning him into someone different

[lethal burrow]

you whooped his ass into the water he probably just got normal amnesia.

Additionally, after consuming the memory of nyleth he could have been unbound from his task as the eternal guardian

[sinful nimbus]

There's no rule that you need to lose a mask to get amnesia

[rancid dagger]

he still has his nature as a warrior tho

[sinful nimbus]

Seth doesn't even wear a mask in the first place

[rancid dagger]

seth even talks about being super skilled at random stuff and not knowing why

[sinful nimbus]

And most masks don't really even appear to be magical

[vague whale]

[proud lark]

yeah yeah taht part is obvious i was just more thinking about it in relation to his mask

[proud lark]

same for quirrel

[teal drift]

Unfortunately there doesnt seem to be much literary meaning to masks as a concept. Famously a dull literal activity

[lethal burrow]

what's the fayhorns mask

[rancid dagger]

i always took it as mask makers doing kind of what the pale king did but at a much much smaller scale for primitive bugs

[lethal burrow]

seth is sort of like a reverse quirrel

[proud lark]

ye

seeing the mask maker in ss for the first time just complicated stuff for me way more

now its not just 1 freak its probably an entire lineage who does that in every kingdom

[rancid dagger]

waiting for someone who knows more to either agree or deny this since masks are probably the thing i understand the least in hk lore

[proud lark]

they all have swirly eyes like herald and they all switch identities with their masks

[lethal burrow]

In retrospect, the first mask maker is way more cryptic than the second one.

Like he's just a freak regardless of his profession "the truth is always buried deep" yeah OK mhm says the guy holding a shovel

[proud lark]

real

[rancid dagger]

seems more like a job, just like every place will have vendors and stuff

[vague whale]

secret job ?

unlikely

[proud lark]

i think theres a connection between them more than just being with the same role

[rancid dagger]

but it's something only people with a big understanding of the world seem to pick up since both mask makers seemed to have a fair understanding of their respective higher beings and their kingdom's history

[proud lark]

yeah

i thnik theyre doing it willingly and without the kingdoms eknowledgement though

[cloud mesa]

can we discuss these guys are they weavers

[proud lark]

cosidering how both are sitting at the edge of their kingdom

[graceful grail]

Did Lace free hornet in the beginning cutscene???

[vague whale]

very likely yes

[tropic arrow]

no, just spiders

[graceful grail]

Midwife said the have fallen as a species

[rancid dagger]

Not confirmed but it's the general interpretation

[cloud mesa]

is midwife a weaver?

[rancid dagger]

No

[tropic arrow]

and more of a spider than Weavers, given they have 8 limbs, unlike Weavers.

Again, one should not consider bug anatomy, for it leads only to insanity.

[graceful grail]

Probably not

[lethal burrow]

ye

[vague whale]

wouldn't we like to know 😎

[lethal burrow]

The answer is not 100% no but it's also unlikely

[rancid dagger]

Weavers are spiders, herrah and first sinner have 8 legs

[vague whale]

Gods Midwife

[tropic arrow]

they have 6. I counted.

[lethal burrow]

Count again

[wanton finch]

nope

[tropic arrow]

well ok screw me then

[cloud mesa]

Amazing things the weavers once crafted on their looms; stories, shields, spells. So much of our history was spun upon their spools. Your little friends there are testament to their talents... heehee.
Our????

[tropic arrow]

where are the rest of hers, then??

[graceful grail]

Ok, was it to rebel against her mother, Obviously she stood no chance against her otherwise. And if she could kill Hornet herself then she would def not stand a chance against GMS.

[vague whale]

Widow was mutilated

[sage summit]

what is widow?

[rancid dagger]

.

[cloud mesa]

god i hate her design

[lethal burrow]

ye she doesn't like her mother super much

[sage summit]

is she like a weaver?

[tropic arrow]

She is a Weaver

[rancid dagger]

She's the one exception

[vague whale]

Widow is a mutilated Weaver

[wanton finch]

pinned with her spine i say

[graceful grail]

She just wanted a killing blow??

[lethal burrow]

I'm sure there's some fuck ass sprite of widow with eight limbs on the Sprite sheet

[fathom hill]

what abt those smaller weavers in hk

[vague whale]

That and her mask ripped off

[proud lark]

the weavers were part of the bugs of deepnest, they were intertwined in hallownest

[rancid dagger]

Also remember widow is super mutilated wouldn't be surprising if she lost 2 legs

[fathom hill]

last time i had this discussion I counted 6

[ebon silo]

Weird ass bug that's for sure

[rancid dagger]

They aren't weavers, the only weaver we see in hk is a rando when leaving weaversong area

[cloud mesa]

maybe the weavers spawned all the deepnest spiders

[ebon silo]

Not all spiders are weavers

[graceful grail]

Yes, or they reverted towards their original nature without GMS

[rancid dagger]

Nope since weavers tend to struggle to reproduce and weaver children are also weavers

[proud lark]

waiter waiter! another 3 hours of bug anatomy discussion please!

[wanton finch]

herrah and the deepnest king ruled over both the spider tribe and the weavers

[lethal burrow]

It's a little unclear, but my personal take is that grandmother's silk wants hornet because it's more silk to sustain lace, however, lace does not know the exact reason hornet is being brought, and so lace wants to kill hornet since hornet is partly weaver lace sort of view her as "oh grandmother silk must actually want this child instead of me" idk maybe lace doesn't understand that grandfather silk can't wake up or I don't know the whole waking up situation is weird anyway

[wanton finch]

uhm, spiders aren't bugs

[cloud mesa]

spiders arent insects

[wanton finch]

indeed they aren't

[tropic arrow]

Reeds are actually gonna make me lose my mind more though, because Grand Reeds have 2 limbs more than Reeds because... well, yes.

[rancid dagger]

Grandmother silk wants to be freed of her slumber, it is stated that hornet's presence is accelerating that process

[cloud mesa]

bug is a colloquial term not a biologicial class bro

[tropic arrow]

when is it stated that Hornet's presence is accelerating it?

[lethal burrow]

where is it stated that Hornet's presence is accelerating it?

[kindred verge]

well "true bug" is a biological classification

[graceful grail]

She said she diddnt like her mother for making her is a frail Child form. Could also be rebellion

[fathom hill]

this one, am i just counting badly?

[rancid dagger]

Dialogue with either caretaker or mask maker

[wanton finch]

i'm trying to find more sprites of widow, but none look to have an obvious fourth set of limbs

[rancid dagger]

I forgot which

[vale plover]

Is "something" tricket related to the grimm troupe

[foggy fractal]

no

[lethal burrow]

Probably no, but could you be more specific?

[tropic arrow]

Ah, found it

[rancid dagger]

This is a sprite for an unreleased enemy that never made it into hk im pretty sure

[fathom hill]

Nono thats the one in hk

[tropic arrow]

It is Caretaker

Change was unavoidable, sir, whether I arrived or not. The monarch stirs. Its threads stretch far. My presence only accelerates the inevitable.

[fathom hill]

The one that runs when you see her

[vale plover]

The red bugs casting fire balls up from greymoor

[proud lark]

uits still used just the non infected version

[rancid dagger]

Im almost certain she looks different but i might be wrong

[graceful grail]

If we get Grimm Troup update will we fight Grimmchild with shade abilities from TK?? Or is Grimmchild dead when TK lost his shell??

[lethal burrow]

The presence accelerates the inevitable because she's going up to confront the grandmother though.

It's not a metaphysical acceleration it's an acceleration through action.

She's saying this all would've happened regardless, but her showing up and doing what she's doing will just make it happen faster

[fathom hill]

Ah true its cut content

Cant find a better video for it

[lethal burrow]

oh lol naw those guys have a different thing going on

[rancid dagger]

No clue nothing ever stated about it

[vale plover]

Grimmchild just went back to the troupe if anything

[ebon silo]

Y'know I feel like the deepnest weavers wore mostly red as the red memory shows

[proud swan]

I mean if she wasnt there she wouldnt be able to confront it, so it wouldnt be inevitable

[graceful grail]

I thought he was the troup??

[lethal burrow]

She's saying change would be inevitable. She's speaking about change.

[wanton finch]

herrah possibly also had a read cloak/mask on

[rancid dagger]

That's just speculation though, but either way yea the objective is to be free

[vale plover]

W (something) princess pfp

[lethal burrow]

it's huntress Wizard.

fake fan

[vale plover]

I didn't finish the dlc 🥀

[vale plover]

Hell yeah green princess

[ebon silo]

I'm quite curious about herrahs mask because if she's a weaver why bother wearing one if you have a big ass round but she doesn't more so a horn and shit but

[graceful grail]

White Lady says Grimchild is Troup Heart and Master in one

[vale plover]

I see

[rancid dagger]

No if there, herrah has to be a weaver for hornet to be part weaver

[graceful grail]

Could Herras face be diffrent from all the rest because of the mask used for her to be a dreamer??

[vale plover]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-confused-gif-15712129875520007531

[kindred verge]

Pretty sure Grimm even hints that the Grimmchild is the reincarnation of Grimm created by the ritual that kills the previous incarnation

very phoenix-coded, is Grimm

[rancid dagger]

She wouldn't have wore it during red memory then though

[wanton finch]

we definitely aren't looking at her actual face, and her horns, size, etc have various possible explanations

[graceful grail]

The mask could take time to take effect???

[cloud mesa]

herrah could of been a dreamer by the time of red memory

[wanton finch]

hornet straight up can't remeber her actual face

[foggy fractal]

hornet dumbahh

[rancid dagger]

Yeah seems to be the way to sustain and empower the nightmare heart's envoy

[wanton finch]

chosen to become one yes, but she wasn't a seal yet

[graceful grail]

Hornet sees Herra on death bed alot tbf

[rain gate]

or herrah could have been a non-pharlid weaver
(a take i saw earlier)

[foggy fractal]

can't remember your own mum's face another hornet L !

[ebon silo]

Indeed she is a weaver but the thing is why is she so different from the others the weavers we see are slim skeleton bodies and a large rounded head unless herrah was just some sort of defect but we don't have evidence for that

[fathom hill]

fr

[tropic arrow]

we know she is a first generation Weaver, meaning she was in Pharloom at some point, because Hornet is 1/2 Weaver

EDIT: misunderstood

[wanton finch]

there's no real evidence for non pharlid weavers, although i've suggested this as another possibility

[graceful grail]

Mutated for purpose of breeding with a wyrm??

[rancid dagger]

Either it'll be explained later or we just have to consider it a retcon

[cloud mesa]

herrah is a weaver that looks so different than other weavers because her being a weaver is a retcon

[ebon silo]

nah no way

[proud swan]

I mean pharlids dont have all the same masks. Some are round, some are pointy

[wanton finch]

i don't know if we know that for sure

but we're looking for an in universe explanation

[cloud mesa]

like weaver lore is pretty retconned all around lol it doesnt matter that much but it is what it is

[tropic arrow]

the in universe reason I headcanon for it is that the Pharlid she was uplifted from was messed up or mutated or whatever.

The out of universe reason is that Herrah being a Weaver is a retcon

[rancid dagger]

Only first sinner's has been shown pointy and it still had the basic round shape

[graceful grail]

Hers was smashed on the top, like an egg

[proud swan]

First sinners mask looks more like its been broken

[rancid dagger]

This is just not true, can't retcon what wasn't there in the first place, only possible retcon is herrah being a weaver

[proud swan]

I mean isnt this pointy?

[river veldt]

so is the flower ending in HK the canon one? cuz the shade lord was trapped inside the delicate flower, and was only unleashed because the flower broke?

[rancid dagger]

We see on the memory she was born that way

[ebon silo]

First sinners mask is cracked probably as a punishment for be the first one to sin so duhh

[rancid dagger]

Yes and that's also not a weaver

[wanton finch]

isn't that a mask that it's wearing tho?

[graceful grail]

Born Defected 😢

[ebon silo]

Really? Or was she just punished for sinning

[graceful grail]

Did GMS make the weavers from those small bugs though??

[proud swan]

Yes, but weavers evolved from pharlids through GMS, so Im thinking maybe Herrah's horns/mask is different because not all pharlids have the same structure

[cloud mesa]

idk how to explain it but weavers were not giving chozo in hk like they give chozo in pharloom

[lethal burrow]

but hornet inherited the head shape and harrah only became a dreamer after hornet

[foggy fractal]

no she was just like that

[rancid dagger]

She spawns like that bro it aint that deep

[rain gate]

or herrah was a different bug

[rancid dagger]

Then we'd see more differences among weavers

[wanton finch]

i sitll say herrah could have made the mask soon after hornet was born

[lethal burrow]

we can just say birth changed her or something

[rancid dagger]

If we are going to explain the retcon this is probably the best explanation

[lethal burrow]

But what about the horns? Are we proposing Those are part of the changes

[cloud mesa]

team cherry probably didn't have silksong drawn out in 2017 and thats okay

[wanton finch]

if it embiggened her i don't see why she couldn't have grown horns as well yea

maybe all the weavers do have horns, jsut small ones, and herrahs got embiggened by the same thing that embiggened the rest of her

[lethal burrow]

but the horns were passed down to hornet so if it's the dreamer thing that made her have the big horns then she would've had to be a dreamer before hornet was born

[rancid dagger]

Yeah herrah being a weaver is a good decision retcon =/= bad

[mint stratus]

Herrah is shaped very different from other weavers?

[ebon silo]

Is widow a weaver right just without the mask

[tropic arrow]

yes

[rancid dagger]

Buut we shouldn't be trying to reach to space to find an explanation

[ebon silo]

What happened to the mask

[wanton finch]

then she got embiggened by being pregnant, or the dalience somehow

[lethal burrow]

i'll get the patented four images

[tropic arrow]

forcibly removed

[rancid dagger]

Simple explanations like "she just got the dreamer mask on" is good enough for now imo

[graceful grail]

Or they used this seal to make Herra Change?!!!

[lethal burrow]

just say it was birth

[foggy fractal]

anyways which design do y'all like better ? HK Herrah or the more red SS Herrah

[proud swan]

Wait what First Sinner memory are you talking about?

[rancid dagger]

Too different, it's not like first sinner's case where she's still round just spiky

[lethal burrow]

The one after the fight

[tropic arrow]

Ya know, the reason being birth would tie up neatly with the whole "reproducing is extremely painful and difficult for Weavers" thing

[lethal burrow]

say it was pale king sex then

Or pale King baby birth

[mint stratus]

Maybe it could be something similar to how the godseekers way bigger due to her forced coffin sleep?

[rancid dagger]

Yea that one's good too

[ebon silo]

Unless TC says something about herrahs design and why is she like that it's nothing but a mystery

[tropic arrow]

yeah just add it to the pile

[foggy fractal]

we got a black wyrm, pk is white wyrm
whats next ? grey wyrm ??

[ebon silo]

How large is this pile already

[tropic arrow]

like "why do Weavers have spines?"

questions not to consider, if one wants to stay sane.

[ebon silo]

the nether wyrm

[wanton finch]

she evidently kept growing after the birth, as seen in red memory

[graceful grail]

Also, the weavers in Red Dream were very concerned with Hornet being (More Weaver than Wyrm) like they didn’t want her to be any Wyrm.

Did herra do that lil thing with the king without the weavers advise.

Herra also clearly wanted a motherly connection with Hornet. Unlike normal Royal deals that involve that stuff

[proud swan]

You mean when you bind her?

[rancid dagger]

Isn't the godseeker supposed to be like the witness in destiny? Amalgamation of the entire civilization into a single being

[tropic arrow]

Look down into the Abyss, the one in Hollow Knight, and you have your answer

[rancid dagger]

New weaver's are hard to make, obviously they want to preserve their culture + they need her to be able to bind GMS

[mint stratus]

Yeah but they seems super surprised about their changed form, and presumably they were already a mind sea before that

[proud swan]

Just found it

[lethal burrow]

i'm just waiting for blackroot

[graceful grail]

Was that the plan from Hornets birth, to dethrone the marnoch??

[mint stratus]

Yeah having to prove your heritage when you’re mixed is pretty common :/

[tropic arrow]

Paleroot

Wait a minute

[foggy fractal]

wait a second...

[rancid dagger]

that's just my theory considering Eva is a failed attempt at creating divinity within a weaver to have a permanent solution to GMS

[mint stratus]

THE GREY PLANT WITCH IN SHELLWOOD CAN CATCH THESE HANDS

[graceful grail]

What is Evas other half, anyone know??

[rancid dagger]

and herrah offers to sacrifice herself to become a dreamer just to have a child with the pale king who is a divine being

[tropic arrow]

wdym by "other half"

[rancid dagger]

she's just an attempt at artificial divinity

[wanton finch]

she's probably something more like lace and phantom, a construct of some sort

[graceful grail]

She is part Weaver and part somethin else

[tropic arrow]

no, she is wholly artificial

[lethal burrow]

some people had plans for her birth, some different from others, some just wanted her to live her life

[tropic arrow]

The Weavers should have taken notes from Pale King and tossed her into the abyss. That tends to work.

[mint stratus]

But how would they afford the buzzsaws? They’re integral to the plan

[rancid dagger]

this is refering to them struggling to reproduce**

but i like to see it as a parallel there tbh

[tropic arrow]

If they aren't rich ruling the Citadel, the Weavers deserved to die off

[cloud mesa]

thats why they neeed a midwife

[tropic arrow]

too foolish to live

[rancid dagger]

i'd make gms my wife

hot manipulative lady with anger issues me likey

[mint stratus]

The weavers should’ve thought about not being poor before they died 😔

[lethal burrow]

i get it

[tropic arrow]

they were too busy devising the most insidious city known to bugkind

[lethal burrow]

I'm waiting for them to put dragonflies in and just make them dragons

[tropic arrow]

Seriously, who had the brilliant idea of using robots, not to reduce slavery, but propogate it even more?

[rancid dagger]

the fucking treadmill

[proud swan]

I mean...

[ebon silo]

Wait what happened to the karmelita bodyguards? The trader and the thief were the bodyguards right?

[rancid dagger]

i took it as that being the architect's and conductor's work and not the weavers' tho

[rancid dagger]

dont know about the thief but probably not the trader

[ebon silo]

I think the thief is a little too big but I think the mask is close

[tropic arrow]

While the Architects would have been the one who made it, the Weavers were explicitly the ones who actually devised the Citadel. They were likely around for the robots being made, and probably came up with the Underworks in the first place

[mint stratus]

Does anyone know why some of the ants are partially grey, is it camo paint or inborn?

[foggy fractal]

nah there's no evidence for this they just look alike ig

[tropic arrow]

the way I understood it, that's paint and they're the Skarr that are not affected by the Haunting

I am guessing that's why the other Skarr kill the trader

Could be wrong tho

[rancid dagger]

the skarr in general arent affected directly by the haunting im p sure

[ebon silo]

Mmm I guess those bodyguards were kinda unique though atleast

[rancid dagger]

their society did get fucked and karmelita was drained of her life but they arent controlled

[plucky escarp]

[tropic arrow]

Skarr Stalker entry:

Fierce, strong and disciplined... yet these qualities do not protect them from the Haunting. Is it such a fate inevitable in these lands?

[ebon silo]

Who killed the trader

[edgy barn]

It's literally the same design, look closely

[rancid dagger]

trader seemed to be a traitor to me

i just assumed it was the other skarr

[edgy barn]

They are in fact haunted

[tropic arrow]

^^ haunted indeed

[rancid dagger]

the trader is much smaller

[timber pond]

The One hunter that you fight in far feilds in Act 3 i presume

[foggy fractal]

yeah I don't think a fightable version can be found except in the arena
we do see a corpse of one here and there though

[edgy barn]

is he?

[rancid dagger]

ah true actually it was karmelita that protected them from the haunting and that's why she was poofed when we find her

[rancid dagger]

99% positive

[ebon silo]

What's the 1%

[rancid dagger]

the 1% is me not measuring pixels in my screen 😭

[edgy barn]

I mean we can just compare game screenshots

[foggy fractal]

they are smaller and have a sharper jaw plus even if they did look exactly the same there'd still be no evidence that they were karmelita's guards
and again we do see a corpse of the last claw here and there

[covert night]

they probably replaced workers with robots to reduce labor. but slavery and workers still exist except they work in the most horrible conditions more than ever

[rancid dagger]

i dont have one

[lapis geode]

One of them is being taxidermed

[foggy fractal]

is there one in memorium ? ik for sure theres at least one after gurr

[edgy barn]

Where are the corpses btw? I never came across them, or atleaat didn't notice

[lapis geode]

Wait, really? I don't find another one.
We talk about this guy right?

[wild zinc]

Why does hornet get cross stitch just from fighting phantom did she just conveniently remember how to do it at the end of it

[foggy fractal]

yeah the corpse of one

[proud swan]

I guess she learned

[foggy fractal]

ok heres footage look after the fight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRYeJryXzBs

[lapis geode]

More like immitate.
Phantom real speed is too quick for her, so she made one for herself

[rancid dagger]

also karmelita being old as shit and dying makes me think her guards would just be dead

[edgy barn]

Alright I see them

This means I can actually compare the in-game sizes

[proud swan]

also queen ants significantly outlive workers so It wouldnt make that much sense

[ebon silo]

What is even is gurr why outcasted

What did bro do

[rancid dagger]

bro why does this bitch have as much health as a fucking carrier ship

[covert night]

i would outcast a guy who has a corpse collection

[ebon silo]

Karmelita?

[ebon silo]

The skarr literally wear bones from enemies and weapons from it I don't think they aren't any different

[foggy fractal]

probably because he's mottled (marked with spots or smears of color)
we know that the other two ants who are mottled are also seemingly outcasts
the trader and the one who gives you the curve claw

[proud swan]

Maybe he had a corpse collection to cope with the fact he was outcasted. Wheres your empathy?

[rancid dagger]

yea

[ebon silo]

Oh well no shit she's the ruler of the skarr

[edgy barn]

The three of them share the notable trait of not being haunted

[ebon silo]

Your probably fighting her in her prime too

[rancid dagger]

from needolin dialogue from the trader he seems to be one of the few not affected by the haunting (even though the skarr in general do not fully lose themselves by the haunting according to gilly)

[ebon silo]

They're just that resilient

[rancid dagger]

yeah you are

[rancid dagger]

it's karmelita's song im pretty sure but yeah

i dont know where it is said but i remember that vividly

or at least an implication

[edgy barn]

Karmelita is no longer singing

She kind of can't

[keen nebula]

do we know anything about that small one in far fields?

[rancid dagger]

yeah but she was for a while

[edgy barn]

Nope as far as I know

[foggy fractal]

so its either
-> they are outcasts because everyone else is at least semi haunted
-> they are outcasts cuz ants are racist

[rancid dagger]

if it's not due to karmelita's protection then i really got no clue about why the ants only get semi haunted

[proud swan]

it's definitely something that melodies are such an important part of the game, and somehow the descendants of a queen that sings are less affected by the haunting

[rancid dagger]

also this type of dialogue from skarr enemies

[edgy barn]

The ants are fully haunted, where are you getting that they are only affected partially?

[rancid dagger]

gilly dialogue

[mint stratus]

I think the skarr might have it better because they’re akin to why the hive did better with the infection than others, they already functioned as a colony/hive

[teal finch]

based on the skarr merchants needolin dialogue whatever they have is regarded as a curse but they also still hold karmelita in high regard

[rancid dagger]

that's why gilly is studying the hunter's march

[edgy barn]

I see

[foggy fractal]

are all the ants we see children of Karmelita

[rancid dagger]

also skarr dialogue in general seems like the haunting causes them confusion rather than full on mind control

[rancid dagger]

she's the ant queen so i'd assume so

[edgy barn]

Strength... faded...
All for her...
The last, loyal... loved...
Why this way?

[teal finch]

yeah theres some interesting implications w that line

[proud swan]

Isnt the haunting referred as a song as well?

[edgy barn]

I don't see how you got to that conclusion?

[ebon silo]

They can't tell if it's her song or not and with that confusion they atleast resisted the haunting to an extent

[rancid dagger]

everything in this game is a song lmao

[teal finch]

oh not the merchants then but there is like a mottled ant needolin dialogue that mentions a curse

[rancid dagger]

yeah this is also my take

more like devout loyalty to karmelita keeping their minds in check partially

[foggy fractal]

gilly also say
This giant, old ant... Her death seems recent, but her presence here...
Was it her? Could it be? The strength that sustained these caves? If so, what will happen now?
and then Hornet: They will wither and fade... And you may sadly know it was my needle that brought her end.

[rancid dagger]

oh wait gilly appears in karmelita's room?

[foggy fractal]

apparently

[rancid dagger]

i havent gone back

[foggy fractal]

that's what the wiki say

[proud swan]

Yes

[rancid dagger]

nice will have to check it out

[proud swan]

She mourns her and hornet is like "sry i had to do it sis"

[teal finch]

was referring to these lines, just misremembered it as the merchant

[edgy barn]

There are only two other mottled skarrs, and only Gurr has needolin dialogue:

...The last...
...The hunt...
...Pale...prey...
...Come to me...

[rancid dagger]

so yeah even if karmelita can't fully sing anymore she still seems to sustain the skarr as much as she can

[foggy fractal]

god now I'm mad that we didn't get a more extensive ant area
theres a lot of ant stuff but all kinda spread out

[rancid dagger]

who's the third motted skarr i only remember trader and trapper

[rancid dagger]

we got the best boss across both games for them

[ebon silo]

Well if the haunting is a song or similar it's nice that karmelita was a... Skarr singer get it but it's pretty cool hey

[foggy fractal]

a mottled version of this guy which upgrades your curveclaw

[rancid dagger]

ohh yeah true

[edgy barn]

The one that upgrades the curveclaw in Far Fields

[humble charm]

Is that Act 3 only or some

[foggy fractal]

god if only the document of all sprites isn't down rn I could actually find his sprites

[rancid dagger]

yea

[humble charm]

I tried to get the damn upgrade in 2

[rancid dagger]

i dont think the targets even spawn pre act 3

[ebon silo]

I'm very sure that this dude didn't upgrade the curveclaw rather he just went to karmelitas house and stole her curveclaws

[foggy fractal]

I assume he upgraded it cuz you have to give it to him

you literally lose the tool and percentage

[edgy barn]

Turns out these are the needolin lines for the curvesickle skarr, I thought he didn't have any.

[rancid dagger]

also where the fuck do i find mossberries i havent upgraded druid tool because im missing 1

[proud swan]

did you check next to eva

[rancid dagger]

yea

[ebon silo]

Yeah he steals your tool for himself and then steal karmelitas tool but that shit would break the loyalty so I'm just fucking around

[teal finch]

ya so it seems like the other ants thought of the mottle mark as a curse and cast them out, but the mottled still hear karms song (or at least a song?)

[lapis geode]

Shame we lost this area of Skarr's tribe.
Maybe in dlc cause this area seems to be too good to be deleted

[rancid dagger]

im glad i dont wanna fight that fucker again

[edgy barn]

Why were the skarr on the bartender's cellar?

[ebon silo]

Ants likes anything

[steep talon]

Getting fucked uppppp

[ebon silo]

Even nectar

[rancid dagger]

dug through the far fields to try and steal shit probs

[ebon silo]

And yeah hunters march extends to far fields

Wait I just realized the statue is actually karmelita

[rancid dagger]

zote level IQ

[ebon silo]

I thought it was a backer character like y'know the dream shit and I thought wait I'm very sure our asses are getting a dream nail DLC

and I said this because of course it was my first playthrough and nothing about the lore yet

[rancid dagger]

eulogy is basically dream nail thankfully

[proud swan]

Its looks like we are actually getting in an ants nest

[rancid dagger]

i hope they leave skarr content as is karmelita is such a goated boss i don't need anything that makes me change my opinion on skarr

[ebon silo]

Who would win GMS or radiance

Like how far can the haunting go against the infection

[steep talon]

Well considering GMS is very physical and Radiance is a dream being, I'd say rad

[rancid dagger]

cant really powerscale higher beings

specially considering we fight gms after a centuries long slumber

and she manages to defend herself from the void unlike radiance

but radiance had been beaten up before getting voided

[steep talon]

Ooh like that? I guess if people that abduct weavers are anything to go off, GMS influence goes farther as long as she's above

[ebon silo]

the radiance does have a heated rivalry with the void iirc

[rancid dagger]

seems like it yea

but when grabbed by void tendrils the radiance can only teleport away

grandmother silk made a cocoon and fended off the tendrils while withing a void sea

after waking up from a centuries long slumber too

radiances infection seemed to be much stronger than the haunting tho

even while contained

[ebon silo]

Though rad may win the fight by not appearing in the said fight because it only lives in dreams or something

[rancid dagger]

yeah cant really powerscale higher beings like that

[ebon silo]

Mm

[keen ravine]

Debatable if that made her weaker or stronger

Unclear

I would say stronger personally

[rancid dagger]

why do you think it made her stronger

[lapis geode]

How can she be stronger?
It's unclear for how long she is sealed. So there is a possibility that
her prime (which perhaps would look like Karmellita at her young, or Queen Vespa.... the form where
they're still small and agile) is much more terrifying

[trim vector]

radiance, gms is kind of a joke (at least in act 2)

[proud swan]

She is literally a grand mother bro. Have you ever tried to fight an elder woman

Please dont btw

[muted lantern]

are we seriously powerscaling hollow knight rn

[muted lantern]

i tried once but i died

[steep talon]

Unfortunately, some people can't help themselves

[rancid dagger]

she's at least sealed from:
before citadel construction
until citadel construction
before radiance infection
during radiance sealing
during radiance infection
post radiance infection
during silksong events

so a fuckton of time

are deepnest weavers already there before pale king arrives?

[trim vector]

she was already sealed before the construction of the citadel?

[rancid dagger]

the citadel was built to keep her sealed and hidden

[steep talon]

Can GMS generate silk, I forgor

[trim vector]

huh that makes sense

[muted lantern]

mister mushroom neg diffs gms and radiance

[rancid dagger]

she's the primal source of silk

[steep talon]

Yes, but can she generate it like hornet

[rancid dagger]

yes

[trim vector]

I need a mossbag silksong lore video man

[steep talon]

Ok. I was thinking good thing she slept for so long and stockpiled so much silk. Otherwise her ass is not surviving abyss

[muted lantern]

where does the silk come out of

[rancid dagger]

let mossbag start the video by saying snail shamans arent void and i'll give my life in gratitude

[muted lantern]

like is it like a real spider

[rancid dagger]

silk is stored in the balls

[foggy fractal]

this was so cool honestly with the background and all
I assume it leads to a big gate to the ant colony
💔 another tragic lost

[steep talon]

No it's gonna be a deep breath

[rancid dagger]

it honestly just seems like an altered version of the farfields bridge between hunter's march and karmelita's place

[trim vector]

Oh yeah, what happens to the snail shamans after you exit the red memory? Did they die?

[rancid dagger]

no they hide in their shells

[steep talon]

Then he'll scream shamans arent void

[rancid dagger]

im kidding they do die

[keen ravine]

I hope so

[trim vector]

Cowards

[muted lantern]

they presumably used the rest of their soul to power the spell

[proud swan]

Assuming they cant live without their shells, they probably died

[trim vector]

Rip snail shamans, they were pretty cool😔

[muted lantern]

snail shamans joined nudist colony

[rancid dagger]

"shamans arent void, herrah is a weaver, the citadel was not built by GMS"
roll credits

[foggy fractal]

maybe thats what it became but the older version was so much more grand
I assume that those are really long bridges in the background

[muted lantern]

also, its pretty clear kratt is meant to be a perv, but like what is he even looking at, hornet is bathing dressed, and it's not like theres a concept of clothing in the hk universe and hornet is straight donald ducking the whole game

[silver spire]

guys how is it snowing in mount fay

its literally underground, no?

i mean, its lower than the cradle

which is way lower than the border caves which lead to the surface

[muted lantern]

well the blasted steps lead out into the wastes, and it's above the blasted steps, the cradle seems to be a higher peak in the region

[trim vector]

Maybe there's a rotting wyrm corpse above it

[keen ravine]

Well the surface maybe isn't constant in altitude

[rancid dagger]

imagine the surface was just a very high ceiling

[keen ravine]

And there can be holes we don't know of

[rancid dagger]

you can still get clouds and condensation inside of it

[muted lantern]

the existance of the huge bird implies that mount fay is outside

[silver spire]

yes, but generally snowy areas like mt fay tend to be high in altitude

[rancid dagger]

bird could fly withing the boundaries below the surface

[silver spire]

especially since when you get to the nameless town, it seems to be at normal altitude

[rancid dagger]

remember we get REALLY REALLY high up when getting to the surface

you can probably stack a couple mount fays on top of each other

bird has pleeenty of space to live

and clouds have plenty of space to form and condense into snow

[foggy fractal]

I mean fayforn isn't like a bird bird

[edgy barn]

btw I went back to check an this is not true. Mottled Skarr is the same size as the Last Claw, he seems smaller because we always see him sitting down or dead in the ground.

[keen ravine]

Possible theory

[teal finch]

surface lowkey giving sadaam hussein hiding spot

[trim vector]

Have we ever even seen the surface? How do we know that the citadel isn't at the surface and we don't notice it because we never really get to see outside of the citadel (i might be dumb)

[foggy fractal]

is there a last claw in memorium ? I'm not quite sure

[rancid dagger]

lmfaooo

[proud swan]

nameless town is above it

[edgy barn]

There is a corpse of one displayed in Gurr's lair

[keen ravine]

Also possible

[muted lantern]

you can reach the surface above the cradle

[trim vector]

Right

[edgy barn]

My computer has wi-fi issues so I can't sent the screenshot right now.

[foggy fractal]

yeah ik I'm just checking if theres one in memorium because that'd basically confirm where the two last claws ended up

[rancid dagger]

i mean even if he is the same size the trader is defo not old enough

like ant queen is supposed to have the longest lifespan and my queen is decaying lmao

[edgy barn]

I suppose I could go check, but the memorium does not have any areas dedicated to Far Fields or Hunter's Marsh

[steep talon]

There is a hallway with bunch of mobs, before volt tool

[proud swan]

considering tt heres nothing left of high halls, couldnt it just be a giant cliff from surface to mt fay?

[edgy barn]

Hollow Knight doesn't follow real life biology

[muted lantern]

this is more likely, the blasted steps lead to the wastes, wastes are presumably on the surface as they have wind, i think the whole of pharloom is built on a volcano (hence the lava) and the surface is the top of the dormant volcano, mt fay is a neighboring mountain.

[keen ravine]

Maybe

[proud swan]

I mean it does get inspiration from it

[keen ravine]

Who knows, maybe valley, maybe valley inside a valley

[muted lantern]

the bugs have spines, and blood

[steep talon]

Until it's stated in game there is little reason to assume it's the same as real life

[edgy barn]

It does, but you also got stuff like Mantises being born with wings and then losing them as they grow up.

[proud swan]

I mean I lost mine as I grew older. didnt you?

[rancid dagger]

wind doesnt necesarily indicate surface

[edgy barn]

No still got em

[rancid dagger]

as long as you have a wide enough space and maybe a crevice for it to enter you can get currents underground

[muted lantern]

the angle of the wind is going left to right, which would be a little odd if it was coming through a crack in the cieling

[rancid dagger]

not necessarily we dont know the layout of the walls if there are plus the world is 3D even if the game is 2D so more effects on wind direction

doesnt need to be a crack in the ceiling either could be a hole in a wall

also i forgor about this earlier but about the snow in mount fay remember that the city of tears is also underground and we got rain in there

same principle but lower temperature

[edgy barn]

Found it, there are two skarr displayed but they are just scouts

No Last Claw in sight

[steep talon]

Yep

Wait, why are you searching for last claw?

[edgy barn]

Because this

[steep talon]

Ah okay

[hidden wasp]

Chat the ending sister of the void kinda implies the ending could be either dream no more or embrace the void

Right?

[edgy barn]

Yeah

[foggy fractal]

yep

[hidden wasp]

Cause like you see the shade lord for a second but it’s not like clear if that means embrace the void is 100% confirmed

[rancid dagger]

you can justify both yeah

main reasons i think it's godhome and not dnm is because 1) shade lord glimpse 2) no THK shade

[silver spire]

shade lord glimpse

the shade lord is only brought into existence fully by the focus of the godseekers

[rancid dagger]

could be justified as just a glimpse of the potential of ascension from void given form

[silver spire]

yea but then it would just be TK, but void given focus can only take place from the godseeker's focus being attuned into the knight

its like how the focus of the godseekers allowed the radiance to become the absolute radiance

[steep talon]

In dnm? TK becomes a shade and recedes into abyss

[lapis geode]

I love that some people also agree Skarr people are dope as hell.
A bit better than the Crust, in my opinion.

[steep talon]

Crust has more variety, I just like skarrs because of Karmellita

[silver spire]

ill never forgive them for the trauma i had early game in hunter's march

for reference there were no guides, so i didnt know that i could get swift step b4

[lapis geode]

Khann the Avatar of Coral
is still cool though. I find them both before even Act 3.

[tacit lake]

is hera a weaver?

[proud swan]

yes

[steep talon]

Yes

[rancid dagger]

in dnm the knight becomes the void given form, and even though the ascension is reached because of the godseeker's attunement the void given focus is within the potential of the knight as the void given form, even if it can't seemingly reach it on it's own

[tacit lake]

so technically hornet is linked to gms in both silk and family ways no?

[rancid dagger]

it's pretty implied to be godhome ending but the avenue is open for them to do dream no more

[rancid dagger]

yes

well no

[lapis geode]

Yes, she is

[muted lantern]

this also makes lace technically hornets aunt

[rancid dagger]

the weavers arent her actual daughters

[steep talon]

It's not genetic

[lapis geode]

Powerwise, the silk ability comes from GMS

[rancid dagger]

more like adoptive daughters

[tacit lake]

exactly

[rancid dagger]

i meant the family part

[proud swan]

in an adoptive kind a way yes

[tacit lake]

and lace is phantoms sisters as i know

[rancid dagger]

but yeah gms would be hornet's adoptive grandmother

[spring escarp]

Are phantom and trobbio friends

Makes a lot of sense for me

[steep talon]

Gran dauter

[spring escarp]

Same pose, theathre close to the organ entrance, dramatic

[lapis geode]

Then no. Since weaver is more like "hand-crafted-priest" of GMS.
Or the aristocrat?

[spring escarp]

Ghost of opera themes

[lapis geode]

I bet both of them met at least twice.
Phantom playing the organ is not something she learn by herself.

It's too epic~

[tacit lake]

so technically as silksong , hornet phases almost 3 familiars related, + the hints that gives us our silk moves, there were weavers that KNEW hornet on pharloom

[steep talon]

Id read a fanfic about that

[lapis geode]

...link please

[steep talon]

I mean there's probably something on ao3

[covert tusk]

Anyone hear the theory that this may be Conductor Romino due to his needolin singing sounding similair to the Conductor’s Melody?

[spring escarp]

Phantom is a girl?

Alrihht

[covert tusk]

Phantoms a they

[spring escarp]

So an it? Like a silk robot?

[steep talon]

Hornet call them they, Lace calls her sister

[covert tusk]

No just non binary (They’re whatever Lace is)

[covert tusk]

That could also be Phantom speaking

[steep talon]

Never heard. But I think he dickrides the citadel too much to be romino

[muted lantern]

romino is the one who gives you the conductors melody

[tacit lake]

doesnt hornet call lace "child", and in spanish she says "nina" that means like a woman child

[lapis geode]

I prefer as "she" cause it seems Phantom is more like sister to Lace
But they might be more confortable for someone that care too much about genderizing.

[muted lantern]

yes lace is a she, and a child

[covert tusk]

No, Ballador is the one who gives it, we never actually meet Romino (unless this is Romino)

[steep talon]

Uh, I guess. They looked like they were in the tube, not sure if they would be able to speak from there. But eh, I call Phantom they anyway so whatev

[tacit lake]

so phantom is a she?

[timber pond]

I posited this theroy on the youtube video with all of his dialogue. He only Sings AFTER you get all of his dialogue by coming back throughout the game, and only by the end of it, he sings and his singing is Near 1 to 1 with conductor ballador, just more raspy and worn.

The Needolin diolouge itself also implies that HE stopped the Citadels song.

[coral wren]

Did anyone else find phantoms moveset like extremely very similar to to Hornets bossfight

[lapis geode]

Just more honed than Lace

[silver spire]

so here's like the general timeline for pharloom that i g ot from my notes i took while playing the game

before pharloom, there were the skarrs, which lived in modern day hunter's march and their leader karmelita. verdania, led by the clover dancers that received their right to king through the hunting of the legendary palestag. the coral tower, led by crust king khann, which constructed massive coral structures in the modern day sands of karak, which once had a great river running through it. there were the stilkin in modern day bilewater before it was befouled. finally, we have nyleth, responsible for the forest of shellwood and its inhabitants

[steep talon]

Oh boy you're in for a treat, a lot of mfers have a similar moveset to Phantom

[silver spire]

then, Grand mother silk arrives in pharloom and elevates beings known as weavers into existence, which had the power of song that they could use to pull bugs into their thrall. they spread across pharloom, before the weavers eventually tired of grand mother silk, and put her to sleep using the power of song. during this time, the citadel finished forming and religion formed around the worship of the sleeping pale being. it was also during this time that the citadel began to expand across the land and cause the destruction of the surrounding tribes. this was aided by the pinstresses teaching the bugs of the citadel their techniques, only to have the same techniques turned against them, forcing them to scatter across pharloom. the religion established began to use silk to prolong to lives of bugs, to prolong the life of the citadel.

eventually, some like conductor romino began to realize that if GMS woke up, everyone was basically cooked as they all had silk injected into them. (this is my personal headcannon), the weavers also were driven from pharloom, fleeing instead of staying to the kingdom of hallownest. the ones who did stay were eventually killed off, but some were able to use the farsight to sense hornet's birth. then, the whole haunting fiasco happened and the game begins

btw feel free to correct anything, this is my interpretation of the general timeline, as i probably dont have all the knowledge, since yk, i dont have 100% (im missing tools, journal entries, etc.)

[coral wren]

Yeah a lot of bosses have a simaler vibe to hornet but some of phantoms attacks seemed like 1:1 with Hornet

[muted lantern]

unclear, they are called they in the hunters journal, so gender neutral, however theres one memory you can find thats lace and phantom talking, and whoever is speaking in the memory which is unclear refers to the other as sister, so if it's lace speaking then she is calling phantom a sister, but if its phantom speaking then phantoms gender is probably neutral, like they/them pronouns like second sentinel and the hollow knight, actually thk might be refferred to as it, not sure which

[coral wren]

I kept expecting phantom to retract her needle every time

She throws it the exact same way and exact same length as hornet does in her bossfight

[muted lantern]

the best silksong character is togore.

[steep talon]

Togore-tastic!

[lapis geode]

Is it funny that at least we know where Pale King comes from
but GMS seems like the origin of all weaver?

Like, at least Pale King is from Wyrm. But GMS is straight up the source

[timber pond]

The Citadel is implied to have been Bulit over, as there is a stone statue Promoting a more Humble Citadel Made of Stone before hand within The whispering Vaults (it has diolouge) . So the Traditions might have been hijacked as a method by the weavers to keep GMS asleep by using the PIlgrims Traditions. We know the citadel was just one Giant Function to keep GMS asleep Through the mask maker dioluge that was originally MADE by the weavers. Romino might have Stoped the song himself for one reason or another, and thats why he hides in the slab as HIs "penance" after loosing his sense of self.

[silver spire]

wait what wheres romino in the slab?

[tacit lake]

is gms related to hallownest in any way apart of weavers?

[steep talon]

No

[muted lantern]

no

[tacit lake]

isnt she related to everything that has or uses silk?

[timber pond]

Pale Beings all might coe from the same source or land. As white lady sort of implies with "the darkness beneath our hosue" I think the Void and pale beings might have an extremely long history.

[timber pond]

https://youtu.be/TJTnZdEl0a0 He Sings the melody at the end of all his Diolouge

[steep talon]

What's the name of the guy in the slab, I wanna check his dialogue again, see with fresh eyes if there are hints that he's romino

[muted lantern]

its not confirmed its romino, just a theory

[timber pond]

He sings the Melody only the Conductors Know when you play the needolin at the end of all his diolouge

[muted lantern]

i think he's called something penitent, old penitent maybe?

[steep talon]

Ight off to the wiki

[timber pond]

The video above has all of it

[steep talon]

I prefer reading

Or well I guess I would have to read with the video too you know what I mean

[timber pond]

THe crux of the theroy is his singing though lol

[silver spire]

OML I HEAR THE MELODY

my 15 years of music education have led up to this moment

[coral wren]

Guys i think the underworks was based off where i work

[timber pond]

Where as the pale kings elegy was complex and Empathetic, Romino is like "Nah This bitch fucked us from start to end i hate my life" 💀 😂

[foggy fractal]

he sings the conductor's melody ? I don't hear the resemblance

[timber pond]

It is there, but very worn and And only having 9 out of the 10 beats. Likely because, like he said, he hasnt sung in an age.

If you have an Ear for music and listen to both Ballador and his singing side by side, its deffintely there

[steep talon]

Yeah, I can hear it. Though what dialogue implies he stopped the song?

[timber pond]

Whatever His sin is

[steep talon]

Just silence above? That's it?

[timber pond]

Silince above...

[mint furnace]

Took a second cookie

[covert tusk]

Maybe that Pharloom’s Folly poem impacted a bunch of the choir and caused a strike or something lmao (I’m joking but seriously I do think such words wouldn’t be tolerated by the citadel)

[timber pond]

The elegy Implies that he knew of GMS. Whether or net he was or wasnt keen on her existence? I think its the latter.

[steep talon]

Damn, I think we are gonna have to kill this guy, Ralsei

[timber pond]

That would be, very funny

[mint furnace]

“Strike”? What is that word? I think you need a visit to the whiteward

[dim inlet]

"secret npc" and its in an area you pass through in every playthru and he literally sings

[timber pond]

IM gonna put silk in your cookies.

[foggy fractal]

I'm gonna say you're grasping at straws given I don't hear the resemblance at all plus old penitent doesn't look like what the depictions of a conductor are at all (ballador, the statue, unravelled)

idk though maybe when we get the files themselves I'll hear the resemblance

[timber pond]

But i wasnt even the first one to Bring it up, there are even multiple pepole in this channel who hear it lol.

[mint furnace]

I presume the conductor look is armor or garb opposed to how they actually look

[timber pond]

In the comment section of that video, someone commented before me about it and i listend and agree.

[silver spire]

i think u just have bad ears

it's a clear semblance

[foggy fractal]

really ?

let me go take a listen again