sk-lore

[keen ravine]

Same as other randos? " Shelter " " Eat " I believe

[lethal burrow]

Yeah, that sort of stuff

[dry bridge]

I don't think so, I think she's testing hornet

[wide bridge]

i understand the number of limbs doesnt match up, but the hands dont mean anything. Vessels dont usually have hands and yet pure vessel has them so that doesnt really disprove it. About the lack of evidence, i doubt we'll ever find out more abuot the hunter, so until then i dont see whats wrong with the idea that he could be in some way a relative of the weavers.

[tacit lake]

she looks like a combination of gms and widows moves

[muted lantern]

Can someone test if you can play music for the bugs on the surface? I speculate we can't but if we can it would make me need to rethink some aspects of the lore

[dry bridge]

this is because widow is a weaver and GMS made the weavers

[spring escarp]

It is hard to pinpoint these things, bosses I played.

The last one isn't even a boss really.

[dry bridge]

as the journal note on her confirms, widow is a weaver who was mutilated to be unable to produce silk & have no mask, though if she did it herself or if it was a punishment inflicted on her is unclear

[tacit lake]

im gonna find you

[spring escarp]

She is working in favour of gms

[spring escarp]

No lies detected.

He is up there for the same reason trobbio is up there.

I probably should have upgraded big flea too.

[heavy gyro]

nyleth in a is crazy

[tacit lake]

which is(no hate)

[spring escarp]

Wall only boss fight is awesome.

I also didn't understand why people like the seth bossfight

[heavy gyro]

The boss is like flukemarm but a bit better

[spring escarp]

Was pretty unremarkable for me

[lean temple]

The fact Ass Jim is S tier but Karmelita isn't is criminal

[spring escarp]

bro flumark doesn't move

[heavy gyro]

Yeah but the fighting is basically the same, pogo spam

[spring escarp]

Karmelita is pretty high there

[spring escarp]

You also gotta dodge the big ass explosions and projectiles

And can't stay on the same wall she is

[twin moat]

cancer kid's boss

[lean temple]

She's S tier. She's definitely higher than Ass Jim or Trobbio

[spring escarp]

I know the story behind.

It is pretty sweet

But lore outside the game I guess

[spring escarp]

trobbio the goat man

He is so funny and dramatic

[twin moat]

It has a good bit of community built prestige

[lean temple]

He is great but Karmelita is higher

[fringe comet]

are we singing trobbio praises here?

[spring escarp]

Didn't feel it

[fringe comet]

my man

[spring escarp]

Always

I was smirking all the way to his second bossfight

The title lmao

[fringe comet]

absolute diva

[spring escarp]

What EO means in HK again

[heavy gyro]

Eternal ordeal probably

[fringe comet]

eternal ordeal i think?

[spring escarp]

I am glad the placement of the widow isn't controversial at all.

[fringe comet]

watcher on the edge may be a little low, i dont think he was that bad

[spring escarp]

He just felt like a souped up version of yhr tower enemies

Basic moveset

I was inconsistent in points given for atmosphered tho

I shoild have upped watcher in yhe edge and big flea

[fringe comet]

ig so, i think i was so kitted out at that point he just felt like a really fun boss to wail on

[toxic quest]

ass jim is not S tier bro

[spring escarp]

True, it is silver SS.

[rancid violet]

big flea best boy

[heavy gyro]

Are the yumas related to the uomas from hallownest

Considering the similar names

[spring escarp]

Yumas? Are these from

Surface?

[heavy gyro]

No the jellyfish in coral tower

[toxic quest]

out of curiosity other than the memes what makes lugoli a good fight

[fringe comet]

probably not, the uomas in hallownest were created by monomon

[heavy gyro]

Isnt that a theory

[fringe comet]

yeah its a theory

[spring escarp]

He is funny and catches you offguard enough to compensate any midness

[fringe comet]

its a theory i personally believe but its up to you ofc

[spring escarp]

Also you ring a gong to draw attention.

[spring escarp]

I mean monomon is a jellyfish

Maybe all the enemies are their children

mommom mon

[heavy gyro]

It is supported by the hunter saying that fog canyon's creatures are unnatural

[velvet badger]

has anyone sped up the abyss ambiance from silksong? i’m curious what it is

[rancid violet]

jellyfish are unnatural

[muted lantern]

Does anyone know the name the surface bugs have in the files? Do they have needolin dialogue?

[heavy gyro]

I don't think they have any dialogue because everytime you try to get near them they run away

[toxic quest]

fair enough, mechanically he's just mid

[spring escarp]

Bestiary entry no?

[muted lantern]

I don't remember

[heavy gyro]

Skrill is their name

[spring escarp]

Skrill issue

https://tenor.com/view/you-should-low-tier-god-ltg-krill-one-in-a-krillion-gif-7939027577238167153

[heavy gyro]

The wiki says that needolin doesn't work on them

[spring escarp]

They don't have silk

[heavy gyro]

Yeah

[spring escarp]

Of couse it won't work

[heavy gyro]

But hornet can still get silk from them which is more proof she can change soul to silk

[spring escarp]

Maybe she is just charging her own silk or producing more via soul

[lean temple]

She's harvesting soul and weaving more silk

[muted lantern]

I was just checking to make sure that the needolin required a creature with silk inside it to work

[lime nova]

Here's every Weaver we see in Silksong:

• Hornet
• Herrah
• Widow
• First Sinner
• Sister Splinter (Weaver of the Path?)
• Weaver chozo statues (I think those are the corpses of actual Weavers?)

[spring escarp]

Alright

[foggy fractal]

where'd you get that sister splinter is a weaver

[lime nova]

The harp near her fight

[spring escarp]

Oh you're playing the og HK rn?

[lime nova]

I am?

[muted lantern]

Does the song of the deep (forget what it's name is)that leads to the secret bosses require them to have silk in them?

[spring escarp]

P5 pb GPZ

[lime nova]

Oh, no that's an old ass nickname lmao

[spring escarp]

Oh so finished already I see

[foggy fractal]

theres also a harp in fleatopia/fleafestivial are the fleas weavers

[spring escarp]

wtf you mean sister splinter

[lime nova]

No, the harp says that she's a weaver lmao

[spring escarp]

who the fuck

[lime nova]

Needolin next to it

[foggy fractal]

does it ? give me the dialogue

[spring escarp]

What does it prove at all

[lime nova]

Lemme find it

[spring escarp]

no fuckimg wya

[foggy fractal]

also if it does mention a weaver you'd think it be talking about the dead one that's close to sister splinter and not sister splinter herself ?
there is no evidence for sister splinter to be a weaver

[muted lantern]

As in could hornet theoretically use the song she used to fight the three hearts on creatures outside of pharloom or do they need to be creatures with trace silk in them like the people of pharloom for it to work, like if hornet used that song next to white palace could she go into path of pain etc?

[lime nova]

I think they say something about her being cast in wood or something

I'm not at my pc rn I can't check

If one of y'all has the game handy can you check it?

I think the harp is in the tall room with the flowers overhead

It could be referring to the one you get cling grip from

[sinful nimbus]

Sister Splinter is the same species as Splinterthorns, Splinterbarks, and Splinters, presumably

[foggy fractal]

Imposing old insect nesting in the heights of Shellwood. Her command of twig and branch ensured no pilgrim ever survived her territory.
This one lived long and fed much. The wood will be much safer for their slaying.
this is her journal entry, if she was a weaver at least there'd be some sort of comment on it

[sinful nimbus]

This is the tablet in question I believe

I don't know why its thought to be talking about/to Sister Splinter specifically

[foggy fractal]

hello star

[sinful nimbus]

Hi andy

[rain gate]

the very first line i think
"sister, spider, husk bound to branch"

could be wrong

[foggy fractal]

and why couldn't all this be refering to the weaver that gives you cling grip aka the dead weaver you get accessed to after you defeat sister splinter

[rain gate]

well would the weaver be eating pilgrims?

[silk dirge]

sister splinter being a weaver is crazy 😭

[rain gate]

"no longer your meal"

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers are elevated Pharlids

So yeah they could've prior to becoming weavers

[silk dirge]

i think it could just be like directly addressing sister splinter or the stickbugs also

[rain gate]

are there pharlids in shellwood?

[silk dirge]

sister splinter looks nothing like a weaver

[sinful nimbus]

First Herrah then Hornet now Sister Splinter 🥀

[silk dirge]

and has no behavior at all being a weaver

[foggy fractal]

💔

she's not really a "husk" either

[gray iris]

i love how trobbio says trobbio a lot and his va name is trobbiani if i were a voice actor i wish a game dev name they character starcho and have me say starcho a lot

[teal finch]

splinter isnt a weaver she has needolin dialogue iirc

[sinful nimbus]

They don't need to be from shellwood specifically

[silk dirge]

gms should turn the stupid ass wall spiders in deepnest into weavers

these goobers

[foggy fractal]

we got people here thinking that sister splinter is a weaver cuz she has sister in her name and that harp mentions sister too

[teal finch]

this is referring to the weaver thats in the shellwood weaver grave, the one that gives you wall climb

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/black-guy-whtie-and-black-cry-praying-looking-up-gif-553441503240360994

[teal finch]

i talked abt this a few days ago but the weaver graves are also part of the massive weaver propaganda machine im p sure

this is based on the weaver harps seen in at least one other weaver grave

inhavent checked this channel in like a day has any substantial lore thing developed

[foggy fractal]

remember when the riddle was solved and seth was revealed and he said 🗣️ "The Voice… has chosen me."

the voice presumably being nyleth

[teal finch]

i wasnt active for the riddles i jus heard about them from videos but i thought it was a cool way to get fans engaged

[foggy fractal]

I was there

[covert tusk]

I always assumed she was the replacement for Nyleth as top dog of Shellwood (whether intentionally placed by the Citadel or just a natural consequence of removing the benevolence of Nyleth via Citadel industrialization)

[foggy fractal]

shit was hype

[foggy fractal]

top dawg and got no diffed by Hornet 💔

[silk dirge]

i actually had such a decline

i was playing hollow knight in 2019 and then went to play hypixel skyblock in 2020 🥀

[foggy fractal]

I remember Seth being revealed and seeing the gifs

[silk dirge]

never touch hypixel skyblock

[covert tusk]

Silly question but one that hasn’t left my mind

Is Widow having arms like, a weird thing for weavers? Or is First Sinner lacking arms weird?? Like we don’t see other living weavers besides the HK one and like, idk it’s been bugging me

[silk dirge]

hypixel skyblock community is basically gms irl

[sinful nimbus]

First sinner probably has em under her cloak

I'm pretty sure she uses them to claw at you?

[foggy fractal]

yeah First Sinner can be seen with 8 arms in total in her rune rage attack cast animation

[covert tusk]

Oh shit she does? I coulda swore her claw animation was with her legs which was why I was wondering

[rain gate]

wait then in that case widow would actually be missing a set

i count 6

[sinful nimbus]

What the heck

[foggy fractal]

if only the document of all sprites isn't down rn 😔

[sinful nimbus]

I guess herrah has some extra limbs too

[lime nova]

It says "sister", it says husk bound to branch, it says "warded by fear"

[sinful nimbus]

All the tablets say sisters

[foggy fractal]

yeah the the sister argument is very weak

[sinful nimbus]

I dunno what warded by fear is supposed to mean

[silk dirge]

she has 8 too i counted

[austere coral]

first sinner seems like a "pure" weaver, just based off her power and the fact she's very similar to the weavers we see in red memory/Hallownest. Widow could be part weaver, explaining her slightly different appearnce

[silk dirge]

im curious whats up with widow only having 6 tho

[sinful nimbus]

But that seems to be about pilgrims anyway

[rain gate]

fear for anything attacking the pilgrims getting attacked in turn?

[foggy fractal]

you might have to open the image in another tab to see it more clearly

[sinful nimbus]

Possibly

[teal drift]

Framed for the wrongdoings and projections of others?

[silk dirge]

no just pure toxicity

[teal drift]

Gms fans rise up.

[sinful nimbus]

Your goats washed man

[silk dirge]

i think its just you

[sinful nimbus]

Weakest HB second most evil HB too

[teal drift]

All 7 gms is innocent gamers will rise up.

[foggy fractal]

is there even any nightmare heart fans

[silk dirge]

capturing random ass people from other kingdoms to sustain your child you barely care about is not called being good

[austere coral]

gms is innocent?!

nuh uh

[sinful nimbus]

I like NMH

[teal drift]

I think shes more innocent than people claim

I think shes more like a caged animal than a scheming villain.

[sinful nimbus]

She's sapient

[austere coral]

yeah she's definitely not as villainous as Radiance, but far from innocent

[gray swallow]

Are the groms and the bell beast related? They have a similar colour palette, and mask shape (kinda). Like I'm not trying to say they are the same species but, they definitely seem related

[teal drift]

Shes not as awake as people claim imo.

[sinful nimbus]

Seems plausible

[rain gate]

bro when we fight her she literally just got out of the cocoon right?

[foggy fractal]

is nmh the only higher being we have that doesn't have some sort of bug form
like unn isn't really a bug but she does have a sprite sheet, nmh is just background assets 😭

[austere coral]

probably, aren't they next to each other in the Hunter's journal?

[gray swallow]

Yeah

[silk dirge]

unn is the best higher being objectively imo

[austere coral]

plus the similar appearence

[sinful nimbus]

NKG is its bug form

[foggy fractal]

ig so

[ember river]

Yes

[silk dirge]

-giant slug
-creates trees instead of destroying them
-gives you a charm that turns you into slug

what more can you ask

[ember river]

NKG is the avatar of the Heart

[rain gate]

-has an actually peaceful part of the kingdom

...mostly

[teal drift]

People talk about GMS as if she did many things intentionally and with her full mind. Most casual fans don’t know she didnt create the citadel, and most of the ither points against her have an element of debate to them, like whether the haunting was a full sentient and intentional thing.

[silk dirge]

what the fuck kinda bug is nkg

[teal drift]

But weve done the debate enough ill retire from being juror #8.

[foggy fractal]

are they one and the same or is nkg just the dream form of grimm which serves the nightmare heart

[silk dirge]

i mean she pretty intentionally had to create lace and not care about her

[ember river]

Grimm is essentially a vessel for the heart

[rain gate]

and phantom

[ember river]

He serves one purpose alone and that is to propagate the Heart's influence

[silk dirge]

she pretty intentionally had to capture weavers from other kingdoms for the sole purpose of just keeping lace alive

[teal drift]

Not really—imo lace makes sense as a dream of gms. A creation made in her sleep that she cant explain herself to or communicate to.

[silk dirge]

she didnt care about anything else about lace other than keeping her alive

[silk dirge]

lace was likely created before the citadel

[rain gate]

she seems to be almost sad during the lost lace fight though

[teal drift]

Tbh does anyone have an actual source on when lace’s creation occurred i got no clue where any indication of that is

We know caretaker said she ran around the citadel when it was active iirc but idk what else we know

[edgy barn]

As far as I know, there is no source

[ancient dock]

I think someone asked where the first resident of the citadel came from it was nameless town

[edgy barn]

The whole timeline is vague and confusing

[ancient dock]

If you needolin in the nameless town you get the full story

[edgy barn]

Whether by mistake or by design, that's for you to decide

[arctic sparrow]

what ts

[edgy barn]

Void tendrils

[teal drift]

Im incredibly confident TC has a timeline of this stuff somewhere but they chose to deliver it super unclearly

[arctic sparrow]

awesome

[silk dirge]

yup https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/924457324800798731/1417701172487262320/image.png?ex=68d553db&is=68d4025b&hm=be854142c8cccab3fa1f2c55f233f7239f7d638c1c6bf1c96e18fd3cde1fdc43&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[teal drift]

In the same way most of us would struggle to pin down historical threads in real life to 100% confidence, i think hk lore is a clear story delivered by many primary and secondary sources

[ancient dock]

The weavers seduced the residents of nameless town and they became the first guards and pilgrims of the citadel

[ember river]

That's a possibility, yes

[ancient dock]

It confirmed

[ember river]

What if they became the first underworkers, or they recruited the conductors from there

[ember river]

I don't mean the "they were seduced", I mean the "they became the first pilgrims and guards"

[silk dirge]

ok its heavily implied gms was responsible for a lot of destruction of previous civilizations in pharloom

[ember river]

For all we know the weavers handled it themselves

[azure sky]

||why didn't hornet remember the pale king in a red dream? Didn't he see her or talk to her even once? She did have a royal cloak on her and remembers the white palace partially, was he so ashamed of her or pale king just didn't care, like, at all?||

[ember river]

Of the coral one, really, the other ones kinda fell when she was asleep

[silk dirge]

it was definitely not just the weavers who caused destruction

[ancient dock]

Okay I see what you’re saying

[ember river]

The red memory was about motherhood, the whole game is about motherhood

[ancient dock]

The guards look like ordinary bugs though

[silk dirge]

bc he was a shitty dad

[finite cave]

did the shamans just die??

[ember river]

Yeah, but what if the ones they grabbed from up there were the conductors, for example?

[finite cave]

pk wasn't her parent

[edgy barn]

The Skarr fell because of the haunting and Karmelita getting old

[ember river]

Yes, they sacrificed their life

[silk dirge]

pale king literally didnt care about hornet to him she was only a way to get one of the three dreamers

[foggy fractal]

smoking on that snail shaman pack

[ember river]

That's what I think, but apparently some other people do believe that it was because of the citadel

[ember river]

Not confirmed either

[foggy fractal]

also shaman crest, thread storm with volt filament can apparently deal up to 200 dmg ???

[ember river]

Shaman and architect crests are crazy busted

[finite cave]

he didn't care enough to parent her

[finite cave]

he just made the white lady do it

[ancient dock]

Hornet was just a a bargaining tool to the PK at most if they interacted it was very brief

[edgy barn]

...what exactly do they think the citadek did to them?

[finite cave]

exactly

[silk dirge]

its heavily implied

[ember river]

The entire game is about motherhood, I think it makes sense that they put Hornet's 3 mother figures instead of the Pale King
Not to mention the Pale King in general has been kept under tight wraps, I'd find it odd if we ever got to see him normally

[finite cave]

he just enlisted wl to raise HIS daughter

[ember river]

I dunno

[azure sky]

well he was a biological father, I know that he didn't care about any of his children exept the hollow knight but I thought that he like kinda gave her a little 10 second talk at least

[ember river]

And he just had the hollow knight to chain it in an egg with a mindfuck virus inside, and yet a lot of people claim that he cared about it

[finite cave]

he wasn't a father in any other way

[lean temple]

I imagine a king with a whole kingdom on the line and an angry Goddess hellbent on his destruction wouldn't have much time for parenting

[ancient dock]

Plus he was dealing with a collapsing kingdom so I doubt he really care about Hornet

[finite cave]

that was the only way he was a father

[foggy fractal]

yeah seems like shaman, wanderer and architect are all around the same level of good, one focuses on spells, one needle dmg and one tools
I've also seen beast working really well as you can be ultra agressive
seems like reaper and witch are the worst ones tho they do have their niche

[ember river]

Again, every single word you're saying is pure speculation

We don't see the PK, or Hornet's opinion about him, or how good of a parent he was or if he cooked well or he made shit stew

[finite cave]

i feel like shaman is kind of a gimmick good tho

[foggy fractal]

how so ?

[ember river]

I personally prefer reaper over wanderer because I love that melee range, but to each their own
Architect is a boss nuke though

[ancient dock]

Let’s be honest the Pale king is a terrible farther

[finite cave]

it has a subpar needle moveset (yes i know it's built for skills) ans relies on mashing skillz with specific tools to nuke

[ember river]

Yeah, mass infanticide and such, anything else?

[ancient dock]

Abandonment too

[ember river]

I doubt the vessels were even considered life in his eyes, so let's lump them all as a single mistake and search for any evidence that Hornet was abandoned or never spoke to him

[heavy falcon]

Why can't twelfth architect make another architect?

[finite cave]

it's good but a different good

[ember river]

The memory banks are damaged and apparently diminishing returns

[finite cave]

i feel like considering your children not life is inherently bad parenting

[ember river]

Hornet didn't consider them life either

As I said, that's pretty much the mass infanticide

[heavy falcon]

Ah, so basically overtime they lost the blueprints on how to make one? That's really sad

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah she did

[ancient dock]

She was actively avoiding it

[ember river]

But please do show me a single line of dialogue even implying that the Pale King abandoned Hornet

[sinful nimbus]

Idk why PK would really interact with Hornet

[ember river]

She called them cursed and hunted them down, when she talks to Lace she's clearly drawing a parallel with her own treatment of the Vessels

[foggy fractal]

the needle moveset aren't that bad given the range, you're also allowed to swing it suprisingly fast
that said wanderers is probably still my favourite given that faster needle hits = more silk = more spells and heals, its like a positive loop where it feeds into everything, plus you can swing your needle any time

[ember river]

I don't know why he wouldn't, she lived for a while in his home

[finite cave]

i agree wanderers is the best

[lethal burrow]

I think the lack of involvement speaks for itself

[azure sky]

nah im sure that PK is a shitty father, he couldn't even accept the fact that he indeed cared about HK, not talking about hornet. And well the weavers did not like him, and it was mutual dislike, but I still think he should've gave a hornet a lil talk, idk about smth in his "no cost to great" type of 3 word dialogue

[sinful nimbus]

She hunts them down to prevent them from worsening the situation not because she doesn't consider them life

She's also not talking about herself in that sentence with Lace

"I've seen others make the same mistake"

[lethal burrow]

Also, we have to remember silk song takes place a while after the first game

[finite cave]

she goes around killing them to test their strwngth so they dont inadvertently kill all of hallownest

pretty fair imo

[lethal burrow]

yeah, why would she be talking about herself? She's all things considered a pretty normal living being apart from being a demigod in some respect, there's nothing about her that would make one think she's not alive.

[ancient dock]

Well she only hunted them because they would carry out their purpose if not strong enough doom hollownest and Hornet was actively trying not to humanise the vessels so she doesn’t feel guilty about killing them

[ember river]

"Only pity for your cursed kind"
That's from Hornet 1

[sinful nimbus]

Regarding Hornet interacting with PK I doubt it was all that often since she was meant to be a gift to Deepnest which means she wouldn't be spending too much time in the palace

[surreal bolt]

ive noticed flies coming out when these guys explode? is there any explanation?

[sinful nimbus]

She feels pity for their circumstances yes

[finite cave]

wasn't she raised by the white lady tho

[finite cave]

same reason as one coming out when the seer becomes essence

they got hungry

[ember river]

She's called a daughter of 3 queens

[sinful nimbus]

Seems more like a mentor figure in game

[azure sky]

she was raised by:
white lady
herrah
and the other weavers
each and one of them gave her different purposes

[rancid violet]

And Vespa

[ember river]

Born from Herrah, trained by Vespa and I'd assume taught by the White Lady?

[sinful nimbus]

A hidden room in Whiteward implies that Whiteward produced these flies and they contain the souls of bugs

[azure sky]

vespa just thought her how to fight, weavers tried to do that too

[finite cave]

i figured it still applies mb yall

[azure sky]

she was raised/parented by white lady, weavers and herrah for a bit

[sinful nimbus]

So like they're probably powered and controlled in part by these flies

[ember river]

It's also confirmed in a choral commandment

[lethal burrow]

it was made canonical haha

[ancient dock]

She was only with Herrah as a baby probably

[finite cave]

yeah but people are sayinf that they all raised her

[lethal burrow]

Could I see it?

[ember river]

Also found in the whiteward

[ancient dock]

That’s why she doesn’t recognise her face in her memories

[finite cave]

i figured she stayed in deepnest as a baby, moved to wp after herrah got sealed and visited the hive for traininf

like uhh playdates

[ancient dock]

Probably

[finite cave]

wirh sharp weapons

[surreal bolt]

is there even a source of those flies

[sinful nimbus]

Whiteward

[finite cave]

interesting

i wonder what the seer fly means then

maybe it really was just a cool effect

[surreal bolt]

they are made in whiteward? thought they were just trapped for essence?

[heavy falcon]

What the fuck, they just made them into lamps??

[lethal burrow]

They could be souls

[sinful nimbus]

Different type of fly

[ember river]

Also, architect lore! Are we set on how they could be made?

[sinful nimbus]

Hallownest has lumaflies and we don't really know what their connection to moths are

[ember river]

Because architects are constructs but they are also very different from weaver tech

[heavy falcon]

Perhaps the first architect was an actual bug? Then they made the architects similar to themselves.

[ember river]

That's an idea I had, the first one was that they were actual bugs who transfered themselves into machines

Though that may not be the case

[kind steeple]

What was gms objective by kidnapping all those weavers?

[ember river]

Probably to free herself

[foggy fractal]

well we know that the architects served Weavers right

[kind steeple]

Wth free herself from what

[ember river]

No?

[heavy falcon]

Perhaps it was multiple people that created the architect? The place where we obtain architects melody, which have a choir statues that sing the melody.

[rancid violet]

do yall think that the father of fire and the nightmare heart are related

[ember river]

Free herself from her slumber

[ember river]

No, the father of the flame was a totem god

[rancid violet]

the nightmare heart was definitely made tho, its very patchwork

[kind steeple]

How was she sending people to wake herself up while she was sleep sleep

[lethal burrow]

Why is a weaver necessary for that?

[ember river]

Even sleeping gods have power

[kind steeple]

Good question also

[foggy fractal]

Then on your r-r-request, Bug-Red, as directive demands, for Pharloom's first children, a-a-a-and our kingdom-eternal, I shall serve. I shall c-c-craft.

(if holding the ruined tool)
An Architect's work owes much to the art of the f-f-first children. They set expert standard for the tools and talents of Pharloom eternal. If you desire, I can remake the tool, though my own mind-directives may produce u-u-u-unique result.

[snow vapor]

does hornet have a face under the mask?

[ember river]

Probably some final seal they placed, or something, but it's too convenient that all the records of captured weavers add up to 1 full weaver

[azure sky]

no, why would you think so

[snow vapor]

so she's just hollow?

also idk

[ember river]

I take that second line as the weavers having superior technology (which we actually see) and not really depending on architects for their manufacture. They seem to revere Weavers, which isn't an uncommon sight either.

[kind steeple]

She's a bug

[azure sky]

no? She is just a bug which looks like a vessel cuz she is 50% wyrm

[kind steeple]

True

[sinful nimbus]

Well they're specifically programmed to serve weavers

[kind steeple]

What you know bout rollin down in the deep

[sinful nimbus]

"as directive demands, for Pharloom's first children, a-a-a-and our kingdom-eternal, I shall serve. I shall c-c-craft."

[lethal burrow]

hornet doesn't really do anything to break any seal though

[kind steeple]

Wym by this

[snow vapor]

so she just has huge black eyes?

[foggy fractal]

yeah I was about to say

[azure sky]

yh

[ember river]

She does challenge GMS, maybe merely being in her presence is enough or something, I don't know, that plot point isn't explained at all and one can only speculate

[ember river]

1/8+1/8+1/4+Hornet(1/2)=1

[kind steeple]

True

OH

[snow vapor]

but then what's inside of her head

[kind steeple]

I GT IT NOW

[snow vapor]

a brain?

[kind steeple]

CUZ IT WAS LIKE EIGHT DESCENDANT OR SMTH

AND WE'RE HALF WEAVER

[rancid violet]

yeah its her head, heads tend to have brains

[kind steeple]

I don't bugs have brains

FUCK I FORGOT TO PUT THE WORD

[azure sky]

Hornet is:
50% Wyrm
25% Weaver
And the other 25% contain an unknown amount of other common bugs and a lil bit of void (speculation cuz we see her shadow after breaking a cocoon, how did void get in her tho, no idea. Maybe weavers did some manipulations with the void)

[ember river]

Yeah

[ember river]

What? No, Hornet is 50% Wyrm and 50% Weaver what the hell are you on about

[foggy fractal]

hornet is 50% weaver 50% wyrm

[fringe comet]

hornet is not void, thats a misconception

[ember river]

How is "Hornet is Void" still taken seriously

[snow vapor]

I'll act like I know what that is

[halcyon temple]

I thought hornet was part god

[azure sky]

herrah is not fully a weaver

[halcyon temple]

Thats what TikTok told me

[ember river]

Herrah is a weaver as confirmed by a choral commandment

[kind steeple]

Yeah that's what a wyrm is

[rancid violet]

Herrah is a first gen weaver tho

[snow vapor]

don't trust tiktok

[halcyon temple]

Ohhhh

[snow vapor]

most times

[azure sky]

i know that she is not a vessel, but I still dont understand the shadow in the cocoon

[foggy fractal]

"Full Chamber to the kingdom of the White Wyrm. Claim the Weaver, in half part. Last of their line. Sensed strong with Silk. Resistance anticipated. Quell with rune cage."

Weaver is half part = 50% weaver

so herrah is fully weaver

[ember river]

They are spiders

[lethal burrow]

its not void lol.

If you look closely, it's like weird tiny spiders. They crawl across the ground and they have small legs.

But anyways, steel soul is probably canon regardless

[kind steeple]

"DID YOU KNOW HORNET WAS BORN FROM A PACT" everytime those videos appears I want to bite one of my fingers off

[wanton finch]

it's jsut her shell

[azure sky]

thats the reason why the hell i added this "(speculation...)" thingie

[ember river]

Deaths are normally not canon

[rancid violet]

I think that's just the part of her that like essence that goes out to see the future

[fringe comet]

alright im gonna toss in a little bit of real world entymology, i dont know 100% if this is what Ari and William were going for but when a bug is in its pupal stage it sort of melts into a goo

[lethal burrow]

she is unfortunately

[wanton finch]

yeah she just got big somehow, and is wearing a unique mask

[azure sky]

ok. Then thats strange

[fringe comet]

ss confirms that herrah is a weaver

[kind steeple]

Why

[lethal burrow]

she got big because of pale king sex or birthing a half pale king baby

[azure sky]

thats the reason I thought that herrah is not a pure weaver

[wanton finch]

it's impossible for her not to be

[kind steeple]

Seriously?

[edgy barn]

Is it time for the daily Herrah discussion?

[foggy fractal]

yep

[wanton finch]

yeah that's my thought as well

[rancid violet]

she just has a special mask

[ember river]

Half seriously, we really have no idea

[azure sky]

how does this correlate

[lethal burrow]

it's a weird situation, but just chalk it up to birth

[wanton finch]

we also see the godseeker get big similarly tho

[foggy fractal]

exactly statements in the game confirm that she's fully weaver
but its never explained why she looks like that

[kind steeple]

Is this a plot hole?

[lethal burrow]

Weavers have a hard time having children, but harrah has one.

how?

idk chuck it up to pale king bullshit, weird pale king bullshit, and that's why she looks different

[lethal burrow]

no its a retcon

[fringe comet]

nope, just not explained yet

[ember river]

I mean why the looks

Herrah is 100% a full weaver

[fringe comet]

just because we dont know why, doesnt mean there isnt a reason

[wanton finch]

other weavers also have children though, we know this from signs in the cradle

[edgy barn]

Is a retcon, Herrah was not initially intended to be a weaver.

[lethal burrow]

oh? do tell

Have we seen them?

maybe all those Weaver mothers also look like harrah

[wanton finch]

gms had several other partial weavers captured, we see a few details about them like 1/16th weaver, died somehow, or 1/8th weaver, killed a bunch of dudes

[edgy barn]

Herrah in red memori doesn't even look like her original design anyways.

[wanton finch]

same cages as hornet

[azure sky]

pale king is a really important person who is really shady, like only cuz of him being an "unknown zone" of HK lore we always hit a ceiling with "pale king bullshit" written on it

[lethal burrow]

you could just chalk that up to Hornets imperfect memory if you want or just say harrah was younger at the time so therefore less big

[lethal burrow]

i'm growing fond of the idea the white lady only glows because she had sex with a pale king

[ancient dock]

Chalk it up to age maybe

[wanton finch]

may have also been embiggened a bit by becoming a dreamer, or related stuff

age yeah

[ember river]

The weavers probably split

[lethal burrow]

Maybe

[ember river]

The hallownest ones did return to Pharloom

[lethal burrow]

I don't know why she needed to be a dreamer to begin with like, what is the criteria for that?

[edgy barn]

Why would TC bother to make a new herrah design and then go "That's just Hornet misremembering, she actually still looks like she used to"

[ember river]

They seemingly all died

[lethal burrow]

Or attempted to

[wanton finch]

well we know they left pharloom and then tried to go back after some of em went to allownest yeah

[ember river]

The Weaversong does confirm they left

[lethal burrow]

because they wanted to make it less noticeable that she looks nothing like a weaver lol.

I was only proposing an explanation. You don't have to take it.

[edgy barn]

It was never explained what the criteria for choosing the weavers was

[wanton finch]

except widow, who stayed

[lethal burrow]

Well, they did leave, but whether they arrived is not so certain

[azure sky]

I dont think that the glowy thingie is that exclusive, white lady is not a powerful higher being, but she is still pale and well there is some correlation between a root and a worm (wyrm) so I dont think thats the case

[ember river]

We don't know if widow ever left, probably not

[ancient dock]

Some of the psalms scroll confirmed they flee

[ember river]

I mean the Hallownest weavers, according to the other capture logs there were many

In other kingdoms as well

[foggy fractal]

yep

Herrah discussion will fuel this channel for years

[wanton finch]

mostof em proobly died to the wastes

[ember river]

I don't think it's that big of a deal

[ancient dock]

Yeah could have journeyed off to neighbouring kingdoms

[lethal burrow]

We know some Weavers stayed and some Weavers left, but now the question: did some of them leave because they didn't like the other Weavers binding grandmother silk, and pretending to be gods,

or did some weavers leave because grandmother silk started to wake up, well others chose to say or otherwise couldn't get away in time.

[silver spire]

||first try for the mushroom||

[lethal burrow]

yeah, it's easy to just say this is what Weaver's look like after they give birth

[foggy fractal]

yeah we know that she is fully weaver, 100%, all good, but then retcon discussion 🐺.

[lime nova]

I agree that Herrah's bloating may be related to giving birth

She may also just be fat

[ancient dock]

I don’t think so since Hornet is right there

[heavy gyro]

Why does herrah have a weird head shape

[ember river]

Or attribute it to whatever unknown factor, why she looks like that isn't that relevant to begin with. Birth seems to be the case, it's stated to be hard and painful, so physical deformities may be why

[wanton finch]

it's her mask

[edgy barn]

Hornet never gave birth

[ember river]

You don't want to speak about the true retcon

[narrow glacier]

Imagine Team Cherry goes back into HK and change Herrah’s design. That would be hilarious

[wanton finch]

as far as we know, she definetly fucked

[heavy gyro]

mask on a mask?

[sinful nimbus]

Character design stuff thats unique to the individual like that isn't too uncommon

[lethal burrow]

yes, and?

[ember river]

She sought mates

[edgy barn]

Her biological mask, Hornet inhereted it

[ancient dock]

No bloating would occur during the pregnancy

Not after it

[lime nova]

It's possible that Weavers have a much higher variety of head shapes than previously thought, simply hidden behind the weaver mask silk gave them

[silver spire]

ITS THE MAN THE MYTH THE LEGEND HIMSELF

[narrow glacier]

Or they could give us a new weaver boss DLC that has a similar design as Herrah and give her a designation on what “type” of Weaver she is.

[ember river]

That mask is their natural mask as shown in FS cutscene

[lethal burrow]

I'll take what I can get

[narrow glacier]

Like the difference between Tarantulas and Widows and other spiders

[lime nova]

Herrah may have removed her weaver mask to wear the Pale King's dreamer mask, and Hornet can't remember her having a Weaver mask since she lost her so young

[finite cave]

do yall think green prince was the 12th penitent or whatever it's valled

[wanton finch]

possibly, first sinners mask looks pretty much empty

[lethal burrow]

yeah, but Weaver's are orb Weavers presumably, like it's in the name

[heavy gyro]

Weavers can have their natural masks removed as seen with widow

[ember river]

Why would weavers have subclasses, is it really to assume someone with a different body shape may be normal?

[edgy barn]

Why would Hornet being a deadbeat mom never get brought up in the game about motherhood she is the protagonist of

[ember river]

Yeah, and that's probably extremely painful

[narrow glacier]

Nope, Herrah is a tank. Calling it now

[wanton finch]

yea i don't think she had kids

[finite cave]

..?????

[heavy gyro]

I think it's plausible that herrah got rid of her natural spherical mask to wear the dreamer mask

[lethal burrow]

there's sprites for showing it in the game files that didn't end up being used.

[ancient dock]

She had mates but it doesn’t go into detail other than that for all we know mates could be close friends

[narrow glacier]

Hornet 100% fucked as a journal entry mentions her having mates in the past

[lethal burrow]

although it looks like God home statues in that it's all blacked out and all that, but yeah, it does not look pleasant

[ember river]

That's a possibility

[lime nova]

Hornet almost certainly did not have children. The line "I know the curse well Eva, for I am also its victim, and child of one who managed to overcome its limits" heavily implies Hornet did not overcome its limits

[finite cave]

https://tenor.com/view/superman-reaction-phone-iphone-wtf-gif-14265531566972030839

[ember river]

Having sought mates for the exact wording

[foggy fractal]

there isnt even much weaver looks we know of
we know there are shoulder spiked (first sinner for example) and hip spiked (widow for example)
and then whatever herrah's got going on

[lime nova]

But that she did try to

[narrow glacier]

It was in the context of romance. She laments that her mates couldn’t match her lifespan.

[lethal burrow]

which brings up the question of why she needed to be a dreamer?

Like why couldn't anyone be a dreamer? Why did it have to be those three? What's going on with that?

[edgy barn]

The thing is, Hornet inhereted her head shape from Herrah

Like, Herrah has to look like that, naturally.

[ember river]

NEvermind she had them

[narrow glacier]

No, the exact wording was that her mates couldn’t match her lifespan.

[lime nova]

I think something to do with nobody else wanting to tbh. Herrah did it for a bargain, Monomon did it because she understood the purpose, and Lurien because he's a PK simp

[ancient dock]

In reference to the konchflys

[ember river]

There are a lot of corpses in Hallownest, the Red Memory ones, the mummified ones along the way, First Sinner and Widow

[wanton finch]

unless hornet is also wearing a mask, although the one ending cutscene as well as the cocoon animation would make that unlikely

[narrow glacier]

She explicitly mentions having them.

[ember river]

Also fuck the spikes that's so minimal it's not worth considering

[heavy gyro]

Herrah might look like that under her weaver mask like how widow looks different without hers too, and hornet just didn't inherit the sphere mask

[ember river]

Most weavers have that part covered

So for all we know they each may have that part different

Like Vessels had different horns and cloaks

[lime nova]

Hornet canonically had mates, she implies she's tried to have children and not succeeded

[wanton finch]

its possible all weaver have that sort of horn shape, but covered by their masks, and widow was pretty well mutilated

[ancient dock]

I think the horns is a wrym attribute

[lime nova]

Herrah has them too

[wanton finch]

it's the same shape as herrahs

[narrow glacier]

Herrah has em

[foggy fractal]

the corpes and red memory ones look all about the same I'd argue

[azure sky]

Tbh i felt kinda bad for Pale King when in the red dream weavers told hornet "prove that you are more of a weaver than of a wyrm" or smth like that. Pale King is a disgrace to moral and parenting skill but:
At some point he prob did start feeling something to his other children (not including hornet, he wasn't a fan of weavers, and it was mutual)
He did indeed wish the best for his kingdom, but only if it would be the way he liked it to, it wouldn't be that big of an issue if not his "no cost too great" lifestyle
And he did regret everything he did, Im 100% sure about it, he is not evil or insane, he just has VERY POOR morals.
Ultimately he sacrificed many things in order to achieve his hallownest dream, he did defend his territories from other higher beings, and he didn't want for his people to die for no reason. He is arguably the best higher being in terms of moral we know so far.

He lost cuz of crucial mistakes and 2 reasons:
His fucking "No cost too great" lifestyle
He couldn't get to the Radiance

[wanton finch]

unless herrah made her mask to mimic hornets horns when she was born?

[ember river]

The implication is more that she tried to find love but she outlived them all, the entry that's attached to is essentially Silksong's Oblobbles

[ember river]

They do, I'm using them as an example to show you we definetely know what most weavers look like

[lime nova]

The having children thing is in reference to the Eva dialogue

[foggy fractal]

true

[proud lark]

how long do you think ss is after hk? from what i understood its long past the events of hk but im not sure

[lime nova]

Could be anywhere from a week to 200 years

[ember river]

Long long time

[foggy fractal]

yeah Herrah is def the odd one out lmao

[ember river]

There hadn't elapsed that much time since the infection in Hallownest

[ancient dock]

What dialogue?

[lime nova]

After Eva explains the Weaver curse of great pain in birthing and nearly impossible to concieve a child
"I know the curse well Eva, for I am also its victim, and child of one who managed to overcome its limits"

[proud lark]

i was thinking since stuff like hornet saying the hive is LONG dead (probably died off once the hivemind of the radiance died off but horent mightve also referred to them as dead as soon as they were infected), but also the way hornet talks about stuff generally gives a sense of long past events

[lethal burrow]

it's tough because there's no way harrah could've had an orb head and those horns at the same time

[wanton finch]

why not?

[lime nova]

You're vastly underestimating how huge that orb is

[wanton finch]

he mask might be making them look a bit bigger, and hornets horns were also partially from the pale king. or maybe herrah made the mask after hornet was born

[ancient dock]

It sounds like she just referencing her mother Herrah

[ember river]

Hornet most likely didn't have any mates by the time of Hollow Knight, if she did, they probably wouldn't have died from old age in that time.
And she claims to have had many, so that basically means many years

[lime nova]

I am also its victim, and child of one who managed to overcome its limits" those are two separate statements

Her being the victim is unrelated to her being born of Herrah

[lethal burrow]

her eyes would be tiny

[ancient dock]

I doubt Hornet has any children it wouldn’t make sense from a Narrative perspective

[proud lark]

although i assume most of her mates were probably weavers, and the weavers are gone by the time of hk, idk if that example is good measurement for post hk time

[lime nova]

I... also don't think she has children?

[wanton finch]

we havnt actually seen any full weavers eyes

[lime nova]

I think she tried to have children and failed

[lethal burrow]

well we sort of do

[sinful nimbus]

"No cost too great" is reasonable in context

[wanton finch]

those are all head coverings or masks tho

[sinful nimbus]

No cost too great to save Hallownest, and therefore all its inhabitants and their future children

[azure sky]

oh btw about this weaver, can I beat her in non steel soul?

[proud lark]

widow had her masked removed forcefully so idk if its a good example

[ancient dock]

Child of one who overcame it limits sounds like a Herrah reference

[lime nova]

Yes, I know?

[ember river]

She does not, the choral commandment mentions she's last of her line

[proud lark]

the hunter in hk mightve been a weaver so maybe thats a good comperesment

[lime nova]

Yeah I know

[ember river]

Nobody was arguing that point

[lime nova]

I'm gonna have a stroke

[wanton finch]

anything giving it a gender? weavres are all female

[ember river]

Hornet could have learned about the "curse" affecting her by herself or by actually trying to have children, either way whoever she tried with if she did is probably dust by now

[ember river]

That... Would be a reasonable suspicion if the limb amount and shape matched

And the general body size too

[lime nova]

This shot is actually very interesting to me. This seems like what the pilgrims/husks look like when in the wilds beyond, reduced to a feral state. This, to me suggests that there is a sapience field being emitted by Pharloom

[proud lark]

huh didnt know that

[sinful nimbus]

Hunter doesn't even use silk 💔

[ember river]

Also, Hunter doesn't recognize Hornet as a Weaver nor does he make any mention about the Little Weavers, so I highly doubt that's the case

[lethal burrow]

maybe he only uses it to floss

[sinful nimbus]

This is its own species?

[proud lark]

well herrah can be different so many if weavers are only females then hunter is a similar bug to what the king of deepnest was (male spider? idk)

[wanton finch]

yeah it's not a weaver

[dull vine]

You’re correct. Return to the Cradle and climb further and you’ll discover a similar area

[wanton finch]

also only four limbs

[proud lark]

good point

[ember river]

No, those are critters found in the surface, where a village of sentient bugs also existed

[lime nova]

I've been to the surface actually

[lime nova]

Hmm, ok

[wanton finch]

possibly a half weaver or descendent

[dull vine]

It’s also knowledge that pale beings have a sort of power that makes bugs gain consciousness and other things, and leaving said kingdom strips that consciousness away

[ember river]

And possibly none

The Hunter describes his family

[wanton finch]

yeah there's not much to say about what species he is

[ember river]

There's a mention that GMS's silk probably can't reach the surface so there's that

Probably his own thing

[dull vine]

That image looks a lot like the surface to me, and because Mr. mushroom is flying out, I think it is the surface. Also remember that you can leave Pharloom through other ways (not in game tho)

[lethal burrow]

Don't we see silk on the surface though

[edgy barn]

Why would you assume Hunter is part Weaver anyways?

[ancient dock]

The victim part is to opens it can be seen as either way I suppose

[ember river]

It is the surface, you can reach it

[wanton finch]

the eyes maybe?

[spring escarp]

We do

[proud lark]

this is pretty much equivalent to the pk's lore tablets in the cliffs, inviting bugs into his kingdom

[ember river]

So it seems, but that's what it says on the Journal

[spring escarp]

Probably residue from old inhabitants

[lethal burrow]

I think it's a half joke since he looks more similar to a weaver than harrah does

[lethal burrow]

What journal entry are you talking about?

[ember river]

I wouldn't say equivalent

[spring escarp]

Nah probably residue of gms dominion until people moved out

[ember river]

That bug's journal entry, let me fetch it

[proud lark]

"similar concept" or something

[ember river]

Skrill's the name of that bug

[ember river]

Again, I wouldn't say so, that area connects directly to the cradle, it wasn't meant to be the entrance to Pharloom. Perhaps it's old residue from when the Weavers showed up

[ancient dock]

The silk Hornet collects from them is likely Soul she converts into Silk

[proud lark]

from what i understood its similar situation with the pk, bugs outside of kingdoms are just simple minded creatures, the kingdoms give them their mind, specifically in pharloom from first sinners cutscene it seems teh silk also evolved them in some way?

[vale kelp]

Any profound silksong lore besides the stuff that’s pretty obvious?

[ember river]

Yep, that's probably it

[vale kelp]

True silk does seem to have some soul-like elements

[ember river]

Not all bugs are like that
Even tribes without a definite god, like the Shrooms, Shakra's, the Mantis, and the ancient kingdoms before Pharloom were sentient

[edgy barn]

Silk is directly made from Soul.

[ember river]

But higher beings can grant some beings sentience at their discretion as well

[lethal burrow]

So then, what are your thoughts on the strand of silk in the town of no name

[vale kelp]

Also don’t like siblings (void stuff) not give soul when you hit them

[sinful nimbus]

The idea of eugenics exists in the HK universe

[lethal burrow]

Well, it can be

[ember river]

As I said, could be a remnant from when the Weavers visited

[ancient dock]

I would say Silk is just Soul given shape

[ember river]

It's soul woven into threads

[vale kelp]

What does this mean exactly though

[ember river]

You can probably give soul some other shape

[ember river]

They are obsessed over Hornet's remarks about the slabflies and won't shut up for some reason

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet advocates for eugenics in the fly entry

[ancient dock]

Yeah we seen with the Soul master and lanterns

[proud lark]

i think most of them had some sort of evolution of their own, shrooms work under some sort of hivemind iirc, same for hive, mantis are evolved, the pale being effect gives wild bug these perks

[vale kelp]

Soul donut 😋

[sinful nimbus]

Its funny

[ember river]

Those seem more like containers than an actual shape

[lethal burrow]

It feels like it should be something more significant than that, though

[vale kelp]

Looking this up

[ember river]

It's definetely not propaganda or any invitation to enter, that area in particular isn't meant to be shown to other bugs. That village was seduced by Weavers and led down below, so it may be that

[vale kelp]

Hmmm

[ember river]

Also, all of the propaganda is below, the intended entrance to Pharloom is likely the one next to Shellwood, or through Bone Bottom somehow

[proud lark]

im wondering, if weavers were evolved by gms to be what they are, how come they can leave pharloom? or am i misunderstanding something

[ember river]

Anyways, good loring, I'm going to sleep

[lethal burrow]

The path to the surface is a parallel to the path of pain.

and in turn it feels like the nameless village is supposed to have the same narrative significance as the King's memory

[edgy barn]

Does it give you Silk when you hit it?

[lethal burrow]

I don't think it's destructible but I could be wrong

[ember river]

They were uplifted, it's more similar to races like the moths and mosskin than the common bugs "enlightened" by the Pale King

[sinful nimbus]

It doesn't seem to be a parallel to the path of pain narratively - also the king's memory isn't that important either

[ember river]

It's also substantially easier than the path of pain

[sinful nimbus]

Its so unimportant that it was only added in an update in an ultra secret platforming gauntlet

[edgy barn]

If not then it's probably just normal cobweb.

[proud lark]

oh okay makes sense (though arent moths more like "made up" the same way the mosskin are dreamt up?)

[ember river]

It's easier than the white palace

[lethal burrow]

The language used does make it seem like the moths were created as opposed to ascended

[lethal burrow]

I didn't say it was as hard and you said you were going to sleep

[ember river]

Most likely, they're not exactly the same but their minds are their own

[ember river]

I did but people keep wanting answers so I give them what I have

[proud lark]

when seer "dies" she explodes into dream essence and a butterfly/moth (similar to the ones in pharloom) so my assumption was that
silk and dream essence

[lethal burrow]

The things in pharloom have four wings but lumaflys only have two

[proud lark]

huh

it looks similar bc in pharloom they use the butterflies to animate robots, so its pretty much giving them life by just putting soul in them (if we assume these flies are souls), but i think both them and the moths in hk work similarly id guess?

[lethal burrow]

Also, they're not butterflies because that's what the singer lady in the city of tears is

but yeah these weird little lightflies seem to have a weird connotation with spirits or something? Like a soul that animates the body? I'm not sure.

[proud lark]

yeah, i remember something about them being directly made from soul somehwere in whiteward but i cant recall exaclty

[lime nova]

Weavers vary quite a bit in size and shape. I think we've been assuming they're a lot more self similar because the background extras are self similar

[spark valve]

fs and widow have similar bodies, hornet has a wyrm body, herrah is the only actual odd one out

[lime nova]

They do have vaguely similar bodies

[proud lark]

the regular guys too

same ones from red dream

[lime nova]

But they're also a lot more different than you'd think

This is very different from Widow

[spark valve]

not really

difference is marginal spikes are just elsewhere

[lime nova]

?

[proud lark]

tbh widow first sinner and herrah are all probably outliers so

[lethal burrow]

She could just have her arms behind her back in this scene

It's pretty ambiguous

harrah has eight limbs, which is crazy

[craggy smelt]

Sinner doesn’t look like she has any arms, that’s weird
She does have that scythe attack like Widow

[lethal burrow]

actual spider

[proud lark]

first sinner doesnt have regular hands from what it seems

[craggy smelt]

Widow was said to be quarter Weaver I believe, presumably some hybrid traits creep in

[proud lark]

from that cutscene after first sinners fight it made me think first sinner might be a really early evolved weaver so maybe she was evolved without arms bc silk didnt know how to do it well yet

[lime nova]

This is getting into a common trope in fiction, where the main, focus characters look a lot more unique and complexly designed, whereas unnamed background characters are very copy paste. This is just a time saving measure and shouldn't be taken as actual worldbuilding. If any of those background characters were upgraded to an actually important character, they'd get a more unique design to go with it

[lethal burrow]

From where is this knowledge gained?

[proud lark]

really? i never heard about it

[woven belfry]

Whats the most interesting area in your opinion?

[edgy barn]

No, Widow Is a first generation weaver

[lethal burrow]

not the meme channel bud

[lime nova]

I don't actually think that cradle dialogue is referring to her

[lethal burrow]

greymoor

[craggy smelt]

It’s implied by the cage reports in the Cradle, it mentions a quarter weaver staked to service (ie the thing that happened to widow)

[edgy barn]

I see what you mean, but while Widow and First Sinner have their differents, they still share the same general anatomy as each other and the backgeound weavers

[lime nova]

There's a lot of things that don't quite line up. Widow wasn't "staked" as punishment by Silk, she was mutilated as punishment for serving Silk by the weavers. Important difference

[woven belfry]

Greymoor is pretty cool

[edgy barn]

She calls herself one of the first in her needolin dialogue.

[lethal burrow]

They have the same amount of limbs, so that's neat

[proud lark]

yeah i def agree but im more speaking in also their given lore reason to why theyre different, its not just for the sake of it
widow was deformed by punishment and might also had mutations as a following to that
first sinner is probably not fully weaver (from what this guy is saying)
herrah idk what her deal is maybe bc shes queen she evolved her body or whatever
hornet
ofc its all the be distinct but im not talking about the lore given excuse

[rancid dagger]

isn't there more text in that cage that says something else that basically tells you it isn't widow

[lime nova]

Widow's actually the odd one out here

[craggy smelt]

Wait, really? What says that?

[proud lark]

im pretty sure widow is pharloom weaver, you can see memory of her back when she was servant in a room to the right of gms bossfight
it seems she only got punished/rebelled later down the line

[lime nova]

I'm not fully up to date on my Widow lore, but she talks about wanting to prove the heretics wrong or something, and show how Silk is glorious

[edgy barn]

No, Six limbs is standard for weavers. It's just that the arms are hidden by cloak, but you can see the six limbs in their scuttle animation

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah I think Widow would be straight up gone if she made it to GMS

[lime nova]

I think it's needolin dialogue when she's staggered

[rancid dagger]

"Tracked and taken beneath the City of Steel. Eight Choristors, twelve Envoys lost to task."
that's the rest of that cage's text im pretty sure, and widow never left pharloom so she wouldn't have needed to be tracked

[coral wren]

I love how unironically the best strat for groal is vore

[craggy smelt]

I interpreted that as her basically falling in like with Silk post-capture

[lime nova]

No.

Both Herrah and First Sinner have 8 limbs

[proud lark]

i rememberd someting aobut it, pretty much seems like they "invited" random pilgrims into sucking their souls out and turning them into these flies

[woven belfry]

Whats up with wisp thicket

[lime nova]

heretics worshipping a flame spirit

[proud lark]

rule 1 of wisp thicket dont talk about wisp thicket

[lethal burrow]

guys worship fire

[proud lark]

team cherry forgot to delete wisp thicket from the game upon release
ari said this in an interview: what are you doing in my house

[lime nova]

Wisp thicket is the only surviving alternate faith in Pharloom. They're very cult like, and worship an effigy instead of a higher being

[rancid dagger]

they sure as hell didn't forget to put an invisible wall to prevent sequence breaking

[pulsar python]

Wisp thicket seems cut and dry but the only thing that confuses me is that their cult outfits are similar to the Grimm Troupe's to me (plus the flame motif)

[lethal burrow]

makes sense that they would be around considering fire is very effective against silk, most likely

[woven belfry]

I love when team cherry just adds shit to the game with very little or no explanation its my favorite part of silksong lore

[rancid dagger]

i mean that was also the case for hk

i dont think nailmasters have basically any lore

[lime nova]

Widow has 6 legs, Herrah and First Sinner have 8, Hornet has 4

[woven belfry]

Also considering it's so well hidden and such a small group the grand mother silk probably didnt hear of it

[pulsar python]

They have lore but specifically with eachother and sly

[lime nova]

Weavers are not a monolith guys!!

[rancid dagger]

yeah but the nailmasters and nailsage as a concept do not have any lore

[pulsar python]

And I guess Nailsmith because one of them gay as hell

[gray sentinel]

hornet had WHAT now??

[proud lark]

wisp thicket is seriously such an unserious area its kind of a meme
it doesnt fit in where its placed, its super random in its relation to the world, the boss there is really silly and looks out of place (doesnt even fit with the artstyle in the hunters journal), its considered its own area yet shares map with greymoor, is not mentioned anywhere else in the game

[edgy barn]

Why do you keep including Hornet when she is half wyrm?

[proud lark]

the singular enemy in wisp thicket can be seen in the first trailer i think

[rancid dagger]

and for some reason it also shares map with bellhart

[pulsar python]

The boss is a wooden mannequin

[woven belfry]

I dont see why this is surprising shes like 800 years old

[gray sentinel]

she is wth?

[proud lark]

im so glad team cherry left wisp thicket in but decided to scrap coral forest

[woven belfry]

No exact number but shes old as hell

[rancid dagger]

remember hornet was born before herrah became a dreamer

[edgy barn]

The boss room is straight up part of bellheart. Wisp Thicket does not technically have a boss

[gray sentinel]

damn i didn't know that

[pulsar python]

It's probably more close to like 400, or like at least 20 years before Hallownest fell considering red memory

[rancid dagger]

and then the radiance gets sealed and then the seal breaks and hallownest falls

and then hallownest stays fallen for a while and THEN hollow knight happens

[lime nova]

Let a girl have a little fun, c'mon

[proud lark]

my favorite part is that its GREEN
WHY?

[lime nova]

Plant

[gray sentinel]

its just flabberghasting to me

[lime nova]

Did she ever imply she was asexual??

[proud lark]

why is hunters march and sands of karak conisdered their own areas but risp thicket is only a sub area??? its so funny

[woven belfry]

Is there any new lore on the steel soul guys like zi and jin or nah

[gray sentinel]

i don't think so

[lime nova]

It small

[rancid dagger]

it also makes no sense how such a foresty area could exist right besides fucking greymoor and the underworks of all places

[pulsar python]

And don't forget sinner's road

Part of it is leaking in

[proud lark]

my only actual guess as to why its grassy is that its what remains of bilewater/sinners roud/putrified ducts pre pollution

[gray sentinel]

if it were like that then bellheart would be like wisp thicket no?

[rancid dagger]

i also wish you could explore more of ruined verdania

[proud lark]

idk how the pollution reached all the way up to putrified ducts but wisp thicket, which is directly under all the shit coming from underworks, left untouched

[rancid dagger]

like, non memory verdania being more than a hallway

[lime nova]

Valid as fuck

[pulsar python]

There's nothing left, they were probably heretics or something so they got wiped out

No rulers outside of grandmammy silk

[rancid dagger]

ima argue that the exhaust organ is where shit is expelled and that's by sinner's/bilewater

[proud lark]

yeah but exaust organ is way closer to wisp thicket then putrified ducts

[gray sentinel]

can someone clear the air here and tell me, was godhome no flower the real ending or was "true" ending the one that happened cuz i want to say its godhome bcs we see void knight/shade lord in TE of ss

[rancid dagger]

steam travels upwards 🔥

[lost adder]

they builgin fourth corus in crystal peak

[edgy barn]

Wisp Thicket is not a sub area. It has a unique color and its name on the world map is on all caps

[lost adder]

i never noticed until now

[proud lark]

my assumption was that exhaust organ was tasked with keeping the creatures of bilewater at bay, with the mist making them get lost and not being able to invade the citadel

[rancid dagger]

also is the pale lake supposed to be of any significance because i was pretty sad such a cool area was basically just "fleas end up here"

i guess you do start mr mushroom quest there

[pulsar python]

Putrified ducts probably originally expanded across the whole citadel as filtration system, thus it would all have travelled through there to the exhaust organ

[terse warren]

Moss Grotto's name is all caps but world map calls it Bonebottom

[lethal burrow]

it's just like how dirt mouth is its own region that Kings pass is in

[proud lark]

probably there to give a glimpse into how the area looked before shittifcation of citadel

[terse warren]

Basically

[rancid dagger]

im p sure exhaust organ's purpose is just to expell the steam wastes from the underworks and the mist is just that steam mixed with phantom's silk just because

[proud lark]

oooh makes way more sense

[gray sentinel]

im still confused

[woven belfry]

Okay I checked and zi only talks more about the masters which is nothing new
The masters apparently dont like void not sure if this is new
The masters are very punitive if you break their rules theyll hunt you to the ends of the earth
Though her needolin dialog says "Bound by ore" so maybe the masters take normal bugs and make them steel soul bugs?

[proud lark]

it doesnt count as its own even with all of that, its not its own area by the achievements/shakras quest validation

llike whiteward

[rancid dagger]

you can argue for either godhome ending or for dream no more ending, i personally lean more towards godhome endings but both can be equally cannon and there are really no clues to say one is better than the other

[edgy barn]

The only areas that count for Shakra's quest are the ones she sells maps for. The abyss for example is also not included

[rancid dagger]

main reasons i think it's godhome and not dnm is because 1) shade lord glimpse 2) no THK shade

[pulsar python]

There is no true ending but I'd say Godhome with Flower is more likely since Dream No More seemed to show the Shades fully becoming void juice

[proud lark]

we really dont know my theory is taht something similar happened wiht the everbloom
hornet seemingly knows how to deal wiht hte void with the everbloom, so maybe she stopped it from spreading with one (if thats the event shes recalling when talking to the snail shamans)

[rancid dagger]

they can probably just manifest within void juice tbf no?

that's how siblings spawned

[proud lark]

oh true

[pulsar python]

Yeah but at the same time Dream No More gives more finality to the shade's purpose, while Godhome turns them into the Shade Lord

They get a new purpose there

[proud lark]

they dont become void atgain they just return to the abyss lake from what it seems

[rancid dagger]

abyss is also not included because it's an act 3 area tbf

[proud lark]

the void is not a unified entity so its just a bunch of entities who reside within

[rancid dagger]

it doesnt really give finality it's two versions of the same being that is the void's will, void given form and void given focus

although it's actually not a unified entity anymore apparently

fuck void heart and fuck you too

[proud lark]

technically, all endings can be considered canon AND work within silksong, from what i understand

[rancid dagger]

THK and sealed siblings defo do not work with skong TE

[pulsar python]

Sealed siblings

All in le head

[rancid dagger]

you can argue they work for normal ending tho yea

although there being an entire act dedicated to silksong TE makes it feel like it's the actual canon more than the other endings but that's for team cherry to decide

[proud lark]

if we consider the fact that these flies from pharloom can BREAK binds, they couldve likely broke into the black egg and take hornet from there

[rancid dagger]

i'd honestly be pretty disappointed if weaver queen/twisted child end up being considered canon or even possibly canon

[proud lark]

defiantly, but they did cover all bases, the same way dream no more and embrace the void are much better and more interesting endings, tc didnt devalue sealed siblings and thk, they still get their own timeline to exist within, so i agree

[pulsar python]

There might just be no silkflies since it's also a possibility Silk wouldn't be able to sense Hornet over Radiance's power

[lethal burrow]

lmao I love how everyone was like "yeah that flower definitely stopped the void"

And then afterwards they're like "never mind that ending totally works it just sort of gave them a scrape on the knee"

[pulsar python]

They are only from pharloom as far as we know

[solid elk]

Since GMS is the primal source of silk, does that imply that ONLY spiders make silk in this universe?

[lethal burrow]

what other things make it in real life I'm stupid

[rancid dagger]

only gms and weavers since gms gave them the ability to do so

[rancid dagger]

silk worms

[proud lark]

yerp

[pulsar python]

The void is so interesting as a neutral force

[maiden scaffold]

hey i have a dumb question but who is the god of the citadelle ? like before the silk experiment ?

[pulsar python]

It doesn't care what destruction it brings but doesn't intentionally go out of it's way

[maiden scaffold]

they sing for who ?

[rancid dagger]

i really really want them to expand on the abyss and the void in the dlcs, i dont mind the void heart being retconned i think it can be a good decision from a writing standpoint but please expand upon it

[pulsar python]

I'm pretty sure it was always Silk

[proud lark]

if we consider silk is made of soul then i guess you could probably make silk yourself but its prob not super necessary if youre not a weaver

[lethal burrow]

I don't get this thing we're all silk is made of soul. like some of it is but

All? Where do people get that from?

[pulsar python]

Her cocoon was always up in the citadel, the Weavers put her to hibernation to take power

[rancid dagger]

always GMS, the citadelle system was designed by the weavers as a way to keep GMS asleep and hidden

[lethal burrow]

Although apparently the conductors knew about it

[edgy barn]

The magic silk Hornet and weavers use is made from soul

[maiden scaffold]

oh ok thx

[pulsar python]

Wait what says it was retconned

[proud lark]

im not sure, i saw some peoplesaying silk is soul but i never saw anything to outright confirm it, its probably possible for thewhiteward thimg where they sucked peoples silk/soul to create the butterflies/soulfies

[solid elk]

A LOT of insects make silk during metamorphosis, but spiders only use it for predation and silk moth larvae only make enough to be reasonably domesticated for sericulture

[rancid dagger]

it seems to me more like hornet mixes her soul with her silk and they are different powers
i took it as the soul control coming from her pale ancestry

[lethal burrow]

ye pale King is super associated with soul

[rancid dagger]

which is why hornet can bind GMS while other weavers couldn't and Eva is a failed attempt at making something able to bind GMS artificially

[edgy barn]

The seamstress comfirms in her dialogue that Silk (the magic kind) is made from Soul

[rancid dagger]

2nd part is just my understanding of eva not confirmed at all

[covert tusk]

Not the first to mention it but dude the similarities are crazy

[proud lark]

tbh i felt like that during hk, but i feel like silksong gave us tons of (not answers) content related to void, i think we know enough by now where we can take it as known unknown

[covert tusk]

Like

[lethal burrow]

i'm still stuck on the first sinner. was it the Weavers that locked her up or the grandmother herself?

[covert tusk]

Makes this old theory hold more weight

[rancid dagger]

this is from seamstress dialogue tho

[proud lark]

yep hornet outright says that the way lifeblood corrupts is similar to the way the radiance did it

[rancid dagger]

grandmother im p sure, first sinner was || the first one to realize they werent actually descendants of GMS ||

[pulsar python]

This would also make sense why Lifeblood was seen as a taboo (and why it seems only Hornet and the Knight can chug it)

[proud lark]

i wonder if it means that the radiance infection is not really an infection, but a thing that had original purpose/value similar to lifeblood

[lethal burrow]

OK.... then why didn't the Weaver's free the first sinner at any point?

[edgy barn]

Channeling Soul within a thread refers to making Silk

[proud lark]

oooh interesting

[rancid dagger]

she might actually have been referring to an actual lifeblood infection considering the plasmida journal entry

[edgy barn]

the magic kind

[rancid dagger]

"soul and silk inseparably linked"

actually

you are right

[edgy barn]

That's what that means, I think we are interpreting this in different ways

[rancid dagger]

na na you are just right

[lethal burrow]

The special note worthiness of the combination implies that there's a variant without this combination

[pulsar python]

What was Isma doing brah 💔

[rancid dagger]

my brainrotted ass cant read the entire sentence

[lethal burrow]

also ?

[rancid dagger]

yeah normal ass silk to make clothes 🥀

[proud lark]

yeah shes talking aobut it in the worm entry pre pale king taboo'ing it, but im pretty sure shes talking about the radiance infection when talking to him directly

[rancid dagger]

Isma be dead what do you want her to do 🥀

[pulsar python]

It's her fault somehow

[bright igloo]

That’s… disturbing. Proves they’re using the souls of bugs to animate the machines

[pulsar python]

I just can't prove it

[lethal burrow]

racist against mosskin smh

[proud lark]

im actually interested in the steel clan as of a follow up, the steel soul mode talked a LOT about them and their mission, it kinda seem to be directly opposing the void which is interesting

[pulsar python]

The devious clockwork dancers:

[glossy badger]

Yep😞

[proud lark]

as the guy summoning void was taboo enough to send a death squad to hte end of the world for him

[rancid dagger]

see i'd agree if they didn't change how voidheart works, they gave tons of insight to the void's nature for sure but now we see that it's not actually unified under the knight's will even after becoming the void given focus

[lethal burrow]

zote explores the city of steel in the third game in the franchise

[rancid dagger]

also agreed they have a lot of potential

[bright igloo]

Yeah but that coulda just been a once off to imbue the dancers with the prince’s strength

Clearly it’s not but ya know

[rancid dagger]

make it a pirate game, sailing simulator
zote on the bote

[pulsar python]

Unironically a Zote game where you have to win fights by getting enemies to fall off cliffs and stuff to their doom would go hard

[rancid dagger]

you can already tell by the little soul bugs that leave after you kill the constructs

[proud lark]

true its interesting, i assume what the knight turned into it was a way to make the void abide to him whihc is insanely powerful, but it was propably not permanent very obiovuosly

[rancid dagger]

also applies to fourth chorus but A LOT of those appear which is probably why they are choruses

[lethal burrow]

have the hollow Knight games just be increasingly more obvious references to ds2, we already have ashen mist heart now just give us iron Keep but flavour it as steel instead.

[proud lark]

@team cherry make. this. happen. clap emoji

[rancid dagger]

yeah but even without becoming void given focus void heart was supposed to unify the void under the bearer's will

so in theory the "void hive mind" to call it some way should be the knight but we see that's not the case

[proud lark]

the fraudulent knight claims to unify the void under his shell, only able to calm down his failed brothers 🤔

[rancid dagger]

fuck me i should be studying and im discussing silksong lore

[vale kelp]

Wait that’s cool

[maiden scaffold]

hey i have antoher question is khaan a higher being ? since he seems to controlle coral, it's kinda like UNN in hollow kngith

[lethal burrow]

no

[vale kelp]

Actually wait silk is like soul

[woven belfry]

Nah

[rancid dagger]

no

Unn literally created life out of a dream

[lethal burrow]

ever since silksong people have just been pointing to any vaguely powerful character and asking if they're a higher being.

Like that classic butterfly anime meme

[rancid dagger]

like, actual tangible life

[vale kelp]

Yeah unn is very powerful they’re just chill is all

[kind steeple]

Don't hornet use soul to make silk?

[lethal burrow]

tangerinable life

[rancid dagger]

Khan is just a dude

[lethal burrow]

yes

[rancid dagger]

all weavers do

[woven belfry]

What's the deal with the slab

[pulsar python]

I mean it could be that the void is also causing changes to the Knight's original consciousness, like it has to kill the tendrils in the ending due to it finally recognising Hornet but being unable to stop itself

[rancid dagger]

more like they combine the soul into their natural silk

[lethal burrow]

his head sort of looks like the false knight armour

[pulsar python]

Alcatraz.

[lethal burrow]

Average US prison

[vale kelp]

Lock the sinners away!

[rancid dagger]

that makes no sense though, even if he didn't recognize hornet and only recognized her the very last second if he takes the action to attack the tendrils the tendrils themselves would've stopped since they'd be acting under the knight's will

[kind steeple]

Istg playing this game was like

Hornet "well it may seem impossible but I'm not normal bug, I'm half weaver I can do this" and then proceeds to do literally anything

[woven belfry]

Thank you

[rancid dagger]

i think this is reaching pretty hard ngl

[vale kelp]

Yeah ngl this scene is super interesting

[rancid dagger]

khan genuinely just a dude

[proud lark]

im super interested in what this soul material is, if that thing stores all knowledge it comes by it does directly oppose the void in a sense

[vale kelp]

Bc it implies the void can make decisions

[lethal burrow]

Yeah, and his theme sounds like the ruin sentinels theme

[vale kelp]

Which in turn imples will

[proud lark]

he lost all aura when they removed coral forest

[vale kelp]

But the knight did something different from the void

[woven belfry]

Its called an ore by zi so its naturally occurring
And thats all there is on it lol

[vale kelp]

So the knight has a seperate will from the void?

[pulsar python]

It could be that it takes a few seconds before the Knight can stop the Void's natural instinct to attack anything in it's territory like imput lag

Idk

[rancid dagger]

top 3 HK lore discussions:
3) is X character a higher being
2) the knight is actually hollow

1. is X character void

[vale kelp]

Maybe it’s like coal

[proud lark]

the void is not a solid entity, its just a bunch ofrandom stuff together

[vale kelp]

Like bugs get buried and their soul becomes imbued in the rock

[proud lark]

yeah

[lethal burrow]

-# The first domino topples, we are going to have another purity debate.

[rancid dagger]

but that's the thing, there shouldn't be a natural instinct other than the knight's since the void acts under the knights will, it's pretty implied to be like a part of themselves

[bright igloo]

The void doesn’t seem to have a will of its own, it’s just hostile to anything with soul. The knights will can command it, though it doesn’t seem to be total control of all of it all the time

[lethal burrow]

don't forget harrah being a Weaver

[vale kelp]

blows up the second domino with mind

no mas

What about the seals of bindings in silksong

[rancid dagger]

the void becomes a solid entity when it is given form and focus though, or at least it was supposed to be

[pulsar python]

Idk then, maybe it's just a retcon for how Voidheart works or they just wanted to make Hype moments and aura for the ending

[vale kelp]

Like around the cage

[rancid dagger]

seals of binding are weaver design

[vale kelp]

Yes but the cages are made by the silklings

[rancid dagger]

pretty implied since hk too

[vale kelp]

silkling referring to those under the silk idk a better name

[lethal burrow]

We don't know that every glowing seal is a seal of binding

it could be a seal of some other thing

[bright igloo]

On 2 do you mean first or second game cus in ss it’s pretty obvious lol

[rancid dagger]

also if it is a seal of binding remember that architects learnt most of their craft from weavers

[vale kelp]

Also what’s up with EVA

[pulsar python]

Silk made the Weavers and the weavers made the sealing bind

It's possible she could just recreate it

[rancid dagger]

my take on Eva is that she's a failed attempt of artificially making what Hornet is
a being that is both divine and weaver, so that it can bind GMS as a permanent solution rather than just trying to keep her asleep

[proud lark]

another interesting thing about steel soul, it seems like jiji is not randomly replaced in steel soul, shes dressed and looks simlar to the guy who betrays the steel clan in silksong, so i wonder ifthat mean steel soul jinn is a timeline where jiji didnt abandon the steel clan (evident of abandonment by the fact she deals with void in a similar way ot the guy in silksong)