sk-lore

[narrow flax]

So if hk has 5 endings and hks has 5 endings 5+5=10 what else has 10 Mr mushroom. BOOM NEXT HK IS HOLLOW KNIGHT MR MUSHROOM.

[fossil ledge]

Especially since most of the high halls we explore are purely ornamental

[brisk finch]

Isn't the forum specifically the Conductor council? Am I misremembering?

[glossy badger]

My brain expanding so much rn

[dapper willow]

definitely could have fit in like 5 more flying enemies and at least one more gauntlet

[ember river]

• The vaultkeepers act like priests
• Their leader is the Pontiff, or in another words the head of a religion
• "No, they don't actually run the faith"

[spark valve]

.

[ember river]

I believe it is

[spark valve]

The religious aspect of the citadel is not compartmentalized to vault keepers they manage PRAYER but they do not lead the religion

[ember river]

The direction, sure, their words were holy and all, but all the dogmas were probably established and upkept by the keepers

[dapper willow]

Hot take
The citadel has way too many flying enemies, it definitely needs a bit more grounded enemies to balance it out

[ember river]

The flying enemies of the citadel are enjoyable though, unlike the teleporting or dashing little fucks elsewhere

[brisk finch]

I like how it encourages harpoon use

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, gasattack never argued that. Your just trying to start an argument.

[fossil ledge]

Bro doesn't want to be able to move in the Citadel without combat lmao

[modern hollow]

That one bell thrower enemy that somehow always hits you

[glossy badger]

The flying enemies are well designed and fits in with the design of the citadel itself

[ember river]

That's the annoying one and even then you can parry the bells

[fossil ledge]

One of the worst enemies in the game, even with liberal tool and harpoon use it's a major nuisance

Best thing is to just avoid it

[sinful nimbus]

"the vaultkeepers ran the faith"?

[modern hollow]

well when I first reached there I didn't think you could

[spark valve]

Citadel has plenty of grounded enemies in horizontal rooms but vertical rooms you need flying which means a lot of choral chambers have to be flier heavy

[dapper willow]

I never had trouble with bell throwers
Maistros and grand reeds were the real kickers

[spark valve]

It’s about room layout

[brisk finch]

Yeah the ground guys always fall of the platforms near the bellway and just... become completely ineffective

[fossil ledge]

Dang, really? I never had problems with either, though the Grand Reeds do punish carelessness

[ember river]

Grand reeds are easy and Maestros are only hard because of the layout

[fossil ledge]

Always interesting how everyone's experience is different

[ember river]

I really enjoyed citadel enemies, except maybe clawmaidens because they do run away

[dapper willow]

team cherry could have definitely made the enemies harder
Ngl the vault might be the hardest area in the citadel, in terms of enemies

(Its good that they didn't make it too hard btw)

[rancid violet]

Yeah it's hard enough

[ember river]

To be fair, citadel is a mid-game area

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, but i think its really cool you can decomission them in HH

[fossil ledge]

I found the Underworks consistently annoying with how little space there is, environmental hazards everywhere and enemies that love to throw themselves at you

[ember river]

I found about that after I entered act 3, it's a pretty cool detail

[rancid violet]

Maybe a factor in separating the pilgrims into classes is their ability to use silk

[ember river]

But the worst area to traverse is probably bilewater, a lot of platforming with hard hitting enemies, maggot water, and all that

[ember river]

Most choir members don't use silk at all

The only common enemy that comes to mind is the choristor

[dapper willow]

I feel like aside from the grand reeds, none of the nemies are like the ants, who demand the player to pay attention and sort of duel with their fast moveset
I would have liked to see something like that in the citadel (obviously weaker than the grand reeds)

[ember river]

I feel like choristors do that well enough, and reeds somewhat accomplish it

[fossil ledge]

You don't have that somewhat with the choristors?

[spark valve]

Citadel wants you to spend a lot of time running back and forth through the same rooms enemies being mostly lowkey is good

[dapper willow]

yeah they are pretty tough, but choristors move very slowly, I just find that odd

[viscid ridge]

I honestly think bilewater would be improved like 500% if maggots had a time limit. The idea of a debuff not allowing you to heal is cool and all, but coupled with an area as unforgiving as bilewater, the debuff just becomes frustrating

[glossy badger]

The debuff eating silk sucks

[dapper willow]

maybe make it drain your silk less

[ember river]

I didn't find the debuff that annoying, I probably prefer that to constant spikes on the floor

[dapper willow]

preventing a heal is already a lot

[brisk finch]

I actually think it's so much kinder than the usual Poison Swamps, that I cna't find myself minding at all
I do wish electric attacks could kill them for 30 seconds or something, tho

[ember river]

There's also the wreath of purity if they are too much of a trouble

[glossy badger]

Also lack of benches for such a big area with alot of platforming and ambush is weird

[dapper willow]

I tried bombing the water once
Didn't work : (

[ember river]

You can shock it for the journal entry

[dapper willow]

i did that accidentally so i did it

[viscid ridge]

It kinda does, you get the muckmaggot journal entry that way

[ember river]

I think the bellway is ill-placed

[brisk finch]

Gets you the hunter's journal entry 😄

[gleaming creek]

Was this enemy originally intended to appear earlier? In the final game, it's a void creature, but in the 2019 trailer it spat purple goo instead.

[ember river]

That should've been a Sinner's Road bellway, and then another one could've been in the main bilewater area

[glossy badger]

Sinners Road Bellway would've been great

[brisk finch]

My pet theory is that they just recolored a basic glob attack to show off the enemy without a spoiler

[dapper willow]

the rare extinct purple goo creature
The strongest void enemy by far

[brisk finch]

There's also a wisp enemy in greymoor proper (visibly clashing with the color scheme) that has me think the same thing

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, forget my maggot complaints, if the area had like 2 more real benches it wouldn't have been that bad. Even just like give us the option to fix the broken one

[gleaming creek]

While that's plausible, the final version also has giant gashes from which enemies spawn.

[brisk finch]

Actually, gimme a second.

[lean temple]

Even that is intended to keep you safe from the occasional dip in the water and not a prolonged stay

[twin pilot]

Is the dialogue between Hornet and Lace in the ||Cradle||, quote||”Yours was life, pale one. Do not confuse your unique creation with its absence. I have seen others made that same mistake.” ||, this ||others|| referring ||Hollow Knight|| ?

[silk dirge]

maybe originally these guys were supposed to be in the barnacle area

[glossy badger]

Its so odd when you compare it to the rest of the game with lots of benches

[ember river]

Why would you want to stay for a prolonged time in the water

[rancid violet]

If that fake bench was an actual bench in bilewater I would be alot less mad about the lack of bemches

[silk dirge]

they do look different now they dont have the spikes or the holes

[ember river]

I think she is talking about herself and her view of the vessels

[gleaming creek]

Probably vessels as a whole

[silk dirge]

they look more snake like than dinosaur like

[lean temple]

I would if the tool was designed not to break.

[viscid ridge]

I think this was supposed to be a leech enemy for the Barnacle area, but got repurposed as a void enemy. I personally dont really like them, cause they seem very out of place in the abyss

[ember river]

Yeah but why would you want to traverse bilewater on the water, you can already skip most parkour with the wreath and the clawline

[brisk finch]

The gashes aren't on every sprite it has

[lean temple]

Not really for traversal just peace of mind, and it's helpful for the groal arena ig

[gleaming creek]

I stand corrected then. For some reason I remember it having gashes constantly

[brisk finch]

Second name=old name

first name=added by sprite dumper

[ember river]

I hated that arena so I just cheesed groal by not using silk and hiding in the water while spamming tools

[brisk finch]

It's a good point tho, the announcement trailer is fascinating 😄

[ember river]

Also, people rightfully complain about the groal runback, but aren't mentioning enough that annoying Watcher one

[viscid ridge]

I hope these leeches get put back in the Barnacle area if it ever comes back to the game. They just dont do it for me in the void

[gleaming creek]

What's fascinating for me is just how much stuff actually made it into the final game. I was expecting that the final game would be nothing like the trailer because of how long ago it was

[modern hollow]

cant u just rest in pinstress for that

[ember river]

You still have to do all the seed jumps and all

[edgy barn]

You mean Watcher at the Edge?

[modern hollow]

i mean thats not really the worst i think

[lean temple]

I really hated that one, but i think it's because Watcher is a secret boss while Groal is needed for story

[ember river]

It's not the worst but it's not good nor enjoyable to do the entire karak platforming section every time

[viscid ridge]

Watcher isn't that bad, its like a few wall grabs up and slightly to the left

[ember river]

yes

[brisk finch]

As far as I know, according to the files, the only really interesting missing enemy is Coral Pilgrim (a pilgrim with orange coral growths all over them)

[edgy barn]

I think most people just don't know about him. I do agree the run back is annoying

[ember river]

Wasn't that the bubble enemy from coral tower?

[brisk finch]

Gimme a mo

[ember river]

That one had orange growths

[rancid violet]

I dunno who the watcher is but I know groal

[gleaming creek]

Probably from when there used to be a fully fleshed out coral area.

[gleaming creek]

In the final game, it got downsized/redesigned a lot

[viscid ridge]

That pilgrim is probably from when the coral forest would have been in the present, but because it is in the past, pilgrims would not have existed back then, and thats why it was removed

[ember river]

Oh, odd

[brisk finch]

Yes, but 99% of those enemies are in the final product

The second sprite is absolutely tiny, this is me zooming in and screenshotting

[twin pilot]

I’m not sure since she literally ||hunted down ||vessels…do we know why she did this? I would assume that she was ||testing them and see if any one could possibly win over the Radiance, but none of them succeed until Ghost.||

[edgy barn]

Watcher at the Edge if a secret boss you can find with the Silk Soar in Sands of Karak. He's esentially an amped version of the karaka enemies you fight in coral tower and he gives you a memento

[brisk finch]

Coral, generally, isn't really missing content
The Warlord's tower (as it was promoted) is in, as are all of the enemies with the Coral tag (except for this one)
It's really only the area that's missing

[gleaming creek]

The metallic enemies that shoot lasers are not in the files?

[brisk finch]

What was in the area made it into the final product

[ember river]

She hunted them down since she didn't really consider them life until one succeedd
Also, you don't have to spoiler hollow knight

[cedar skiff]

whats hollow knight without fucked up infections

[brisk finch]

Except for the salve quest, I guess

[brisk finch]

Also cut 😄

[rancid violet]

I really need to get to act 3

[gleaming creek]

Salve quest?

[naive mango]

what about the lame ahh ending that got cut?

[brisk finch]

Could be a recolored HK era sprite, could be from the more muck focused era of dev (where alchemist wanted muckblood, alternatively mossblood)

[ember river]

Don't do it sherma dies

[cedar skiff]

goddamn the blob feels familiar

[brisk finch]

Our medicines are in short supply and pilgrims often arrive here injured. We can prepare a soothing salve from the ground shells of coral creatures, if we only had some...

[brisk finch]

Ye I'm fairly certain that's recolored radiance infection

[ember river]

The bottom left looks like a cute blob beret

[gleaming creek]

So originally the haunting was going to be more similar to the first game's infection?

[ember river]

It's not the radiance, it's... the GLOW!

[brisk finch]

This is the only sprite like this, so I think it may have just been a test

[viscid ridge]

I also think it would be cool for team cherry to add more wish board specific bosses. Broodmother and those fire bugs were so cool to me cause they added a boss specific to a quest, they should have really done that more tbh

[brisk finch]

The Muckblood and mossblood quests got turned into Lifeblood

There's also this guy

[cedar skiff]

wishboards are the easiest pathway for dlcs

[ember river]

What fire bugs?
Also isn't that skarr boss unique to a quest?

[cedar skiff]

day 20 of yearning for epilogue dlc

[naive mango]

can we talk about how the sprintmaster isnt sans?

[brisk finch]

Fire bugs in wisp thicket

[cedar skiff]

goddamn its really almost been a month since skong

[ember river]

Those show up in a quest?

[edgy barn]

I mean you got Savage Beastfly, Skull King, Brood Mother, Pintress, Gur and Second Sentinel

[ember river]

I just found it and killed their totem

[brisk finch]

Dashmaster was sans

[rancid violet]

No

[brisk finch]

Oh, no. I didn't read

[viscid ridge]

Yeah that skarr boss is also a cool example of quest specific bosses. They should have made more, but i hope in dlc they add more

[ember river]

Sprintmaster was papyrus

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, but the only one i dont count is skull king, cause we can fight him independent of the quest

[cedar skiff]

well arguably the most fun hollow knight boss fight was added in a dlc

yes im a grimm drone sorry people

[edgy barn]

He appears without the quest?

[brisk finch]

Path of Pain was added in dlc even
I have so much hope

[naive mango]

the emblem for the quest is dashmaster from hk, but the dude is called sprintmaster??

[ember river]

Doesn't the bone bottom one trigger after the quest?

[lean temple]

Yeah but sprintmaster looks like dashmaster for some unknown reason

[cedar skiff]

although itll take a lot to top lost lace for me everything considered. unmatched vibes

[gleaming creek]

Is there a place where all these things are compiled?

[viscid ridge]

Yeah,

[ember river]

He doesn't aside of the color scheme, the statue portrayed a fatter bug

[edgy barn]

Pure Vessel rules in my opinion

[cedar skiff]

i feel the same way abt thk definetly the best boss fight experience all though grimm is the most fun fight to me... bust lost lace had a crazy experience and a fun fight so

[brisk finch]

Dashmaster, sprintmaster, sprintmaster wish

[ember river]

I liked pure vessel more than NKG too yeah

[brisk finch]

Pure Vessel is absolute peak

[viscid ridge]

Not all sprintmaster are red, sprintmaster is just blue

[naive mango]

yeah bruh thats literally sans lmao

[lean temple]

So it's saying sprintmasters can be blue too

[cedar skiff]

pure vessel hits me emotionally but grimms charisma just got me too

[brisk finch]

Sans is associated with dashing, not sprinting, and the icon is still more like sprintmaster
just blue now

[cedar skiff]

pure vessel and lace parallels ah.... ahh....

[brisk finch]

Maybe to differentiate it from the Hallownest one?

[edgy barn]

The NKG fight is an assisted suicide if you stop to think about it.

[ember river]

Though the biggest powertrip of the first game are those two Radiance fights

[naive mango]

yeah im saying dashmaster (the item) is sans

[viscid ridge]

I honestly dont think team cherry has ever played undertale. They seem like the people who have heard of it, but never played it 🤣

[crude bridge]

Cant believe sprintmaster got lifeblooded

[cedar skiff]

this parallel enhances both characters for me honestly

[twin pilot]

So, she killed them back when she thought they were just husks, but why bother? I don’t think vessels would actively attack her...and back to SS, if she thought all vessels were husks before meeting Ghost, then she is probably referring herself as the one who made this mistake?

[lean temple]

I guess but I assumed the color scheme was essential. Ig not

[brisk finch]

Vessels could possibly free THK/Radiance

[ember river]

The big name shining on the screen as it was never shown until this point, the sun growing wings, and either the army of shades climbing along with you or you becoming a god

[viscid ridge]

Sprintmaster Swift had me going like:

"I think... i miss my Hollow Knight"

[cedar skiff]

i like how ss flips around the true boss being the emotional duel

[brisk finch]

It may also be an attempt to distance themselves a bit from the obvious jokes

[edgy barn]

Hornet killed vessels so that they wouldn't try to fight THK, since if they were to lose that fight they would doom everyone.

[cedar skiff]

i think lost laces gonna grow on a lot of people ive seen complaints about the true boss just being a rematch but it absolutely works in every field

storywise and fight mechanics

[brisk finch]

I liked the Big Ending, Smaller Ending turnaround a lot here

We got our big climax, now let's focus on the emotions

Although a part of me expects at least one more Big Fight before TC are finished with Silksong

[cedar skiff]

yeah absolutely

[ember river]

She didn't think they were husks, she considered them an offense to life ("Only pity for your cursed kind")
And that's the idea, yes

[edgy barn]

I understand what the story was trying to convey with Lace, it just kind of fell flat for me.

[grim cliff]

I have a fight with someone. So. Is silksong a prequel or a sequel?

[viscid ridge]

Im probably gonna get hate for this, but i think Lace 1 is a good fight, Lace 2 is absolutely perfect and beautiful in every way, but Lost Lace is annoying as shit

[twin pilot]

Fair point. Although I wonder whether she had met THK.

[brisk finch]

Sequel, Ghost is back in the void. THere's 3 possible HK endings it's following up on

[edgy barn]

I think it would have worked better if Lace had more of a presence during Act 2

[ember river]

Maybe? She was around when the vessels were born

[brisk finch]

Trying to avoid a repeat of the discussion which ending it is
but it's one of them

[ember river]

Which 3

Isn't it 2?

[brisk finch]

Dream No More, Embrace the Void, Delicate Flower

[ember river]

Oh you consider delicate flower a different ending

[cedar skiff]

third phase annoys me because of the visual clutter but it becomes manegable

[ember river]

Since it's so similar and doesn't have a distinct achievement I just lump it with EtV

[brisk finch]

It technically has separate implications
but ye you could mush em together

2.5

[viscid ridge]

Its most definitely Dream no More as the true ending, but people still think it might be one of the godmaster endings

[cedar skiff]

and im on the side of people who took a ridiculous amount of tries for lost lace lol it took me the longest of any fight in both games if we dont count p5. 4 hours

[edgy barn]

Like, the background with the Hornet's and Lace's weapons that you get after the ending left me feeling hollow, like I had skipped a chunck of the story. Was it just me?

[viscid ridge]

Exactly i cant see shit when everything is black

[cedar skiff]

i felt the same way until i kinda started getting more into the lore when i was done with my playthrough and i do still yearn for more lace presence

[brisk finch]

The background was like the one thing I didn't struggle with lol
The white outlines really help

[ember river]

I'd like DNM to be canon because I like the story ending at the Black Egg, but considering that one EtV frame it's not really definite

[cedar skiff]

society if the shade lord didnt flash for 0.5 seconds in the ending

https://tenor.com/view/mundo-feliz-onetreehsll-world-if-gif-14071235670792471304

[brisk finch]

I do wish that something like
Okay so, if you miss Lace1 there's an alt interaction later? I wish that always happened, but with new dalogue

[brisk finch]

I think DNM is the nicer HK ending, but Godhome works better with Silksong

[cedar skiff]

YEAH

[ember river]

You can actually miss Lace 1?

[brisk finch]

Godhome has Shade Lord and a living THK for set up
DNM is a nice completed picture

[viscid ridge]

We all know deep down DNM is the canon ending, but we gotta pretend to be unbiased and also except that the godmaster endings are also canon 🤣

[brisk finch]

Ay

[cedar skiff]

the silksong skips go ridiculous im actually excited for low percent true ending attempts

[ember river]

I was stumbling around until I finally found the dash and opened that gate

[brisk finch]

I actually firmly disagree based on a plethora of reasons, but I've also had this discussion like 4 times already

[dapper willow]

we all yearn in the depth of our hearts

[brisk finch]

Glad we're at least no longer pretending all endings are canon

Like, we can disagree, but that was just plain incorrect

[cedar skiff]

i dont like godhome as the ending because it feels so deattached from the emotional narrative of the rest of hk

[twin pilot]

That’s basically why this dialogue reminds me of THK. If she knew them, then she probably noticed the bond between THK and Pale King but let it slip aside…

[ember river]

I am a sucker for DNM but to be fair if they wanted it to be the only ending they wouldn't have flashed the void entity

[spring escarp]

what

[viscid ridge]

Everyone has a right to their opinions dw

[dapper willow]

yeah
Low % is gonna be nuts in this game
As well as randomizer given how many rooms there are

[brisk finch]

Yeah I've mellowed out a bit
Just a bit

Like, if TC doesn't want people to think it's ambiguous, they'll patch something in

[molten cosmos]

Guys with the act 3 ending pretty much confirming the knight def isn’t hollow because he cares for his sister wouldn’t the endings where he consumes the radiance just not work since the radiance would be released again and hornet wouldn’t be able to be captured

[ember river]

Also now that you mention it @brisk finch EtV may be better suited to silksong's story, yeah, though it's not as poetic in the original game

Instead of fighting your sibling and coming face to face to the infection you kinda just go to a dumpster and do your thing

[cedar skiff]

saw a video of someone discovering a way to do mount fay without clawline and my jaw was just agape watching the walkthrough

[dapper willow]

Original HK lore patch mentioned

[brisk finch]

THK was keeping Radiance at bay through sheer force of will, not hollowness to begin with

[molten cosmos]

Yes but that didn’t work

[ember river]

That's why an alternate method was conceived

[brisk finch]

Yeah I think it's just a matter of different views
DNM is the nicer ending overall, but Godhome feels more related to Skong to me for The Reasons
but that first part of the sentence is just kind of true

[viscid ridge]

No cause in the normal ending he probably was hollow cause he didn't know about his own conception, but in the DNM ending he does, so he isn't hollow

[brisk finch]

DNM is nice

[ember river]

And enacted

[dapper willow]

I saw that too
Though clawline is the same percent as the silk dash so its not that big of a skip

I guess if you wanna do fast mount fay?

[brisk finch]

Ghost can always give Elder Bug a flower
Broken Vessel always reaches out

[cedar skiff]

ill forever think about strung to serve though

the fact that its in the files means it was cut sooo late in

[ember river]

What about SS

[sinful nimbus]

Only a heartless monster could give elderbug a flower

[steel turret]

Fr. In what world would sealed siblings ever be canon? Ghost is not an asshole

[cedar skiff]

yeah its more suited for room randomizer

[brisk finch]

TBF, it could've been cut 4 years ago XD

[twin pilot]

If SS connects to Godhome endings, then Hornet probably met THK after the Radiance was defeated. I wonder how much time has passed since then.

[ember river]

It makes him happy

[dapper willow]

certified bad ending

[brisk finch]

Decision paralysis, based on cut Hornet dialogue for the moment

[molten cosmos]

I think he was always not hollow

[sinful nimbus]

He doesn't deserve happiness he's an old fart

[cedar skiff]

strung to serve isnt any worse than weaver queen

[sinful nimbus]

Sealed Siblings is less risk

[viscid ridge]

It really completes everyones character arcs and encapsulates the entire story of hollow knight.

[sinful nimbus]

Very plausible option

[molten cosmos]

With sealed siblings how would hornet be captured

[dapper willow]

i don't think so

[sinful nimbus]

seals break

[steel turret]

Isn’t it tho? Strung to serve is GMS taking over hornet, at least in weaver queen hornet’s still in control

[ember river]

It's clear SS and HK aren't canon endings

[brisk finch]

Weaver Queen= Hornet with an altered mindset, for the worse (probably)
Strung= GMS with Hornet's power

[rancid violet]

She was just having a rough day

[hasty flint]

Strung to serve is GMS binding Hornet and now being not only free, but potentially also absorbing the wyrm nature Hornet inherited. It’s a pretty bad ending

[viscid ridge]

Probably, but i argue he was hollow because he had no one to love like the hollow knight did.

[cedar skiff]

yeah its like pick your poison but the poison fucking kills you anyway so it doesnt really matter

[brisk finch]

It's not that I don't get why people argue for DNM, because I agree
It's just that I think the in game evidence in Skong suggests Godhome
Because ye, DNM rocks

[twin pilot]

DNK feels like an ending note. Even more than Godhome endings.

[viscid ridge]

But its really up to interpretation

[cedar skiff]

both endings nullify pharlooms survival and hornets character arc

[molten cosmos]

Yeah but the devs said they can all be cannon so there’s probably a way that it is plausible that we don’t know lore wise

[ember river]

I imagined Hornet in her Weaver Queen form immediately being taken over by her wyrm side and becoming exactly like her father

[cedar skiff]

come to think of it majority of hornets arc takes place in act 3

[edgy barn]

If I could go back in time and change one thing during HK's development it would be convincing TC to save Lost Kin the Hidden Dreams dlc, or even Godmaster. They really would have benefitted from getting the White Defender or Pure Vessel treatment

[brisk finch]

god forbid women do anything

[steel turret]

I think the devs just changed their minds

[cedar skiff]

yesss this is the interpretation i took

[brisk finch]

The devs said that once pre-godhome, years ago

The all canon thing

[steel turret]

Pale king isn’t that bad so that’s a W

[brisk finch]

That's important context
They also said "Hornet dlc"

[molten cosmos]

Well he chose to come back to hallow nest and chooses lots of things ingame proving he has a will so idk

[ember river]

No, as a woman, but with the same intent as the Pale King, obsessing with an eternal kingdom and going down to rule

[brisk finch]

True

[sinful nimbus]

based?

[molten cosmos]

That could be the case but let’s say they didn’t change their minds is there a lore way the sealed siblings ending is plausible

[sinful nimbus]

Weaver Queen is probably evil

[naive mango]

she did present interest in being the new monarch in act 2, when talking to the caretaker

[steel turret]

No. The black egg is toxic to hornet, she’s cooked

[ember river]

Lost Kin should have been a true vessel enemy

[viscid ridge]

I think him coming back to hallownest was either coincidence or a force beyond his control. He definitely didn't choose to return home

[cedar skiff]

i dont even view a collective canon i just see the different endings as different outcomes and one of those outcomes results in silksong happening

[ember river]

Dreamers are shielded

[dapper willow]

Even if its weawer queen, I think hornet wouldn't be as bad as Grandma or other bad rulers

[sinful nimbus]

My goat PK would never do something so heinous because he isn't a racist eugenicist like Hornet is

[molten cosmos]

Well he also chooses things ingame like buying and talking to certain people

[ember river]

The death gauntlets he prepared for his children

[cedar skiff]

if laces pure vessel and phantoms the knight then whos driving the lost kin bus

[sinful nimbus]

Those aren't prepared for his children

[terse warren]

Literally where

[brisk finch]

https://tenor.com/bKpKH.gif

[ember river]

Path of Pain and the Abyss

[sinful nimbus]

The goal was to keep people out of the palace you can't blame him for setting up security

[steel turret]

Smh is it so wrong for a father to make some family bonding activities?

[molten cosmos]

I guess in the base ending though it’s plausible that hornet gets captured immediately or shortly after before the knight starts spewing the infection again and then hallownest rots while the event of silksong take place but the sealed siblings ending just wouldn’t work

[twin pilot]

What about Hornet? They cared enough to ||save her in the end of the day||

[sinful nimbus]

The Abyss was justified it was a trolley problem

[terse warren]

PK didn't make Abyss 😭

And Path of Pain isn't even meant to be gone through

[viscid ridge]

Sure thing, but that doesn't prove anything

[molten cosmos]

It proves he has a will

[cedar skiff]

again i dont understand everyone immediately writing off sealed siblings. what if the citadel dudes unsealed the black egg huh.

[ember river]

He did put his children through the abyss though

[brisk finch]

Neither does ending 1, based on Ghost being there with the siblings

[sinful nimbus]

Exactly

[ember river]

Steel Soul Jinn even tells us so

[sinful nimbus]

But we can't have nice things so boom fanservice in true ending

[ember river]

How exactly

[terse warren]

?tag info jokepsa

[gleaming basin]

No tag jokepsa found in category info.

[cedar skiff]

ehh i was mostly joking but you never know

[ember river]

Also Sealed Siblings can't have the Kinght as Void Given Form

[brisk finch]

Then Ghost definitely wouldn't be strong enough to suggest Shade Lord's power
Whether it's literal Shade Lord or a visual manifestation of power

[sinful nimbus]

Void Given Form showing up is entirely unnecessary for the plot

[viscid ridge]

Were talking about the Hollow knight ending him being hollow. But i argued that if the Dream no more ending is canon he would af course not be hollow, so i agree with you

[terse warren]

?tag jokerpsa

[gleaming basin]

No tag jokerpsa found.

[sinful nimbus]

?tag info jokerpsa

[gleaming basin]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgzlVc4LM4J6_DfuscZ4AaABCQ

No ending stops Hornet from being captured, and the ability to break seals with bugs from Pharloom makes Hornet being locked in the Black Egg not an issue. Dreamers also don’t die when sealed, we simply didn’t have the means to remove them without killing them.

[sinful nimbus]

[molten cosmos]

I mean it could still be possible if hornet gets captured quickly

[brisk finch]

There is no reason to think Ghost is hollow in any ending, or that any vessel ever was

[cedar skiff]

god that millisecond of a shade lord frame is gonna result in circle discussions forever

[terse warren]

Oh I typoed

[twin pilot]

They were like, grubs still in the egg or just hatched? It always makes me shudder whenever I think about it.

[brisk finch]

That would make Ghosgt weaker, not stronger

[cedar skiff]

quick give us a third hk game so we know silksongs canon ending

[sinful nimbus]

We should go back to pinging joker to manually send the clip I think

[brisk finch]

Less time to grow

[steel turret]

Also where’s the radiance?

[fair zealot]

i remember hearing that nosk uses mind reading powers for choosing its disguise, right?

[steel turret]

In sealed sibs she’s still alive and kicking

[ember river]

I don't know, but the grubs were feasted upon by the void

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah he uses your memories

[brisk finch]

Right, there's no reason to think Radiance is around in Silksong's era

[ember river]

In Hallownest if she was still alive

[steel turret]

Because if she was, she’d be grandmama silk’s homegirl

[viscid ridge]

I think in the hollow knight ending, ghost is hollow, but in the dream no more ending he isn't

[molten cosmos]

Well for some endings to work it has to be that the knight is hollow like the sealed siblings ending because hornet gets captured and taken to pharloom somehow

[cedar skiff]

sealed siblings is doomed anyway because any ending with hornet significantly involved sees the knight getting atteched to hornet and thus unhollowing

[sinful nimbus]

The knight was already impure

[brisk finch]

The ending doesn't make them not hollow, their in-game actions show that

[ember river]

The knight was never hollow

[edgy barn]

we see the open egg shells in the abyss

[rancid violet]

No one is hollow

[viscid ridge]

Thats exactly what i argued?

[brisk finch]

But they don't have to all work if it goes against in game evidence

[brisk finch]

There is no ending in which Ghost is hollow

That is my statement

[sinful nimbus]

I'm hollow inside fml life is meaningless and we're all going to die

[ember river]

...It refuses to trade...? It has a will... all Its own. Can refuse. Jinn will keep waiting... until a gift comes.

Dialogue from Steel Soul Jinn if you say no

[molten cosmos]

The devs did say that all endings can be cannon so unless they changed their minds then would there be any other way for sealed siblings to work besides if the knight was hollow?

[hasty flint]

Sealed siblings doesn’t work because Hornet said the bindings of the black egg would weaken her and being trapped there would probably outright kill her

[viscid ridge]

I also said its subjective, but thats my personal belief based on the evidence. You can disagree

[brisk finch]

They said that before Godhome ever came out, when "Hornet DLC" was still a thing
Once

[twin pilot]

It depends on why they came back to Hallownest in the first place. I like to assume they were called back by THK and knowing their sibling need to be replaced.

[sinful nimbus]

They changed their minds yes

[ember river]

You can refuse to trade at any point in the game by the way

The Knight was never hollow

[brisk finch]

Saying it's subjective is missing Hornet's actual words in SIlksong

That's ignoring text

[edgy barn]

The knight being hollow has no bearing on whether or not Sealed Siblings can work.

[fair zealot]

so. the knight clearly has memory, as it can draw a map. so any predator as smart as nosk would see the knight following hornet in greenpath and choose to disguise as hornet, to be followed. but instead it concludes that it would be more compelling for the knight to follow itself. i.e. the knight wants to know more about itself. that's the main "not hollow" proof that i like to give

[cedar skiff]

im always flimsy on hollow ghost discussions just like hornet cocoon discussions because how much of what happens is just due to video game mechanics

or maybe playing undertale all those years ago rotted my brain when it comes to viewing video game protagonists lol

[edgy barn]

Not to mention, the knight can't be hollow in any ending involving the voidheart

[viscid ridge]

What am i ignoring?

[ember river]

Clearly not all endings are canon anymore, it was said at that time to make people actually play through the endings and not hyperfocus on a single one
Right now there are clearly two non-canon endings

[ember river]

The knight can't be hollow in any ending.

[molten cosmos]

Yes but for a story like this I feel like they have an idea of how things play out and can’t just have dead endings even if it was a while ago that they said it

[ember river]

Even in HK it's not

[brisk finch]

Hornet telling Lace that origin doesn't mean anything, it doesn't make her less of a person

[cedar skiff]

we would never have canon ending discussions if silksong remained a dlc thats kinda crazy

[edgy barn]

I am aware, I was just focusing in the specifics of sealed siblings

[molten cosmos]

Yes it does because if the knight is hollow it would be possible for hornet to eventually make it out of the egg and then get captured even if it takes a long time

[viscid ridge]

Yeah and how does that have a bearing on what i said?

[ember river]

And how exactly would the knight become Void Given Form?

[terse warren]

If you're a person you can't be hollow in afraid

[brisk finch]

They had an idea of how it'd play out when they were writing the Hornet story and Godhome, the endings which connect the most to the Hornet story as we know it now
+the 3 basegame endings are all valid endings for playing the base game, all 3 make perfect sense based on what you've done

None of them rely on a hollow knight, they rely on knight choosing to take on the duty THK originally had

[edgy barn]

No? If anything, TK being hollow would mean they can contain Radiance forever. Meaning Hornet would never get out.

[twin pilot]

At least now we know they are Hornet’s ||caring|| siblings and I’d say it’s a nice surprise to ||see them pop out to rescue Hornet||

[brisk finch]

PK was convinced he could make a hollow vessel but PK was wrong, everything shows this

[terse warren]

Tbh PK thought vessels would've been hollow by nature

[molten cosmos]

Well the endings can all follow a valid sequence but not all of them can be canon like they stated unless certain facts of the endings are changed or verified

[brisk finch]

The flower quest, broken vessel reaching out, dialogue about Ghost's will, cut THK and Pure Vessel dreamnail text (which is cut, why it's only 1 piece of evidence), Ghost showing up in Silksong, Hornet's talk with Lace

It just keeps going

[narrow glacier]

The absolute genius of having the flies guard the prison where the Spiders are kept.

[brisk finch]

PK was dealing with a zombie plague, I'm willing to cut him some slack

[lean temple]

If so he wouldn't have to choose one out of thousands. He needed one which was pure

[molten cosmos]

Well if he was infected hallownest would just be rotting and he’d be chained up and she’d most likely die in there but if he’s hollow she’ll eventually wake and find a way out

[terse warren]

He chose the only one that actually managed to get out of the abyss lmao

[ember river]

This is the solution to the "all endings are canon" conundrum
So, Silksong is set after the DNM/EtV endings, it's to show what happens after those
But if we got another game set after HK or SS, then we could still say all endings are canon and those are just different timelines.
Of course, it couldn't be Hornet, or in Pharloom, it wouldn't make any sense.
It couldn't be Quirrel either since he sadly passed away.
This leaves us with a fan favorite character that's very likely to be the protagonist of a third game, set after the HK or SS ending.
I don't think I have to say anything else, you know as much as I do who this character is and are equally excited

[heavy gyro]

It could be argued that he needed thousands so that atleast 1 would survive climbing out

[twin pilot]

If THK shows up in DLC and Hornet managed to reunite with them then I could suffer through another Pantheon 5.

[brisk finch]

One (pair of) endings requires absolutely no inference: Godhome
You don't have to theorize how Godhome mechanics could've happened off screen
Because they happen on screen

Even DNM has a better claim by showing Radiance gone, at least

And the siblings joining in

[terse warren]

Neither does DnM

[brisk finch]

(See? I can be nice to DNM)

[ember river]

Turns out 8 year old statements are kinda hard to work with when you're trying to write a compelling story

[lean temple]

Just take them out? The climb was a test for purity otherwise why would he kill thousands of "good" vessels

[molten cosmos]

This is probably the case now that I think of it

[ember river]

When Zoteboat releases you'll know I was right

[cedar skiff]

oh man tcs defiently not talking lore ever again outside of the game

[molten cosmos]

Because the bigger dilemma is that the knight couldn’t have saved hornet had the dnm or godhome ending not happened

[twin pilot]

But surely enough time to make the game HARDER

[molten cosmos]

So they had to be the continuation

[cedar skiff]

they reap what they sow everytime they do

[molten cosmos]

Or they had to be continued on I mean

[terse warren]

They do that even when they speak lore in game

Maybe they should never speak lore again ngl

[ember river]

The endgame is as easy as Hollow Knight and the midgame is slightly harder, its not as big of a deal as people make it out to be

[heavy gyro]

It might be too dangerous even for the pale king to try to get them on his own, and asking for other things to do it like kingsmoulds could be unreliable

[coral night]

Do we know if the citadel was more lively before? Or was it always an empty castle liked now?

[ember river]

It's also that the optional, side content is much easier to find, and still harder than the base game

[molten cosmos]

It’s hard to work with but I think the nature of the story is that they knew/worked around the fact that all endings are cannon and had an idea of the entire lore in their mind

[terse warren]

There's literally a guy in the lighthouse just chilling (well, dead)

[lean temple]

PK when he also has a secret workshop down there, yet can't go fetch one of his thousands of children

[brisk finch]

I imagine there were plenty of aspiring choir pilgrims int he Weaver era and the early Conductor era

[edgy barn]

Just fly in, grab the child, fly out.

[cedar skiff]

thinking about it hornet never says anything that could indicate what the hk ending is

[ember river]

The idea of the lore was restricted to an one-off game, where it makes sense not to have a canon ending
Now, when you're trying to expand that universe forward, you want some worldbuilding and all that

[coral night]

So there was an actual worthy pilgrim path and not just sacrifice

[viscid ridge]

Yeah of course, but my argument is based off of the fact that the Hollow Knight and The Knight have developed in different circumstances.

THK grew up with a family, and obviously grew attached, while TK grew up all alone. This shows that the TK probably was Hollow in the Normal ending, because it did not have a connection with anyone, making it the perfect vessel. White lady even explains that TK does not share the THKs flaws, which i interpret it as not having a connection with someone, like THK did.

While in the path towards the DNM ending, TK learns about the conception of itself and THK, and then forms a connection with its siblings and Hornet, which would make it not hollow in the "canon" ending.

So im arguing that "canonically" the knight became unhollow after connecting the void, but in the normal ending he always was. I hope that explains it properly

[lean temple]

Take a delicate flower for good measure

[brisk finch]

If Ghost is keeping Radiance contained, it's not in the void
That cannot match what we see in Silksong 100% factually

[ember river]

The final cutscene nulls two endings immediately

[heavy gyro]

Yeah i forgot about that but the eggs are still a lot farther than the lighthouse is to the surface

[brisk finch]

We see choir members, so ye
We semi agreed earlier they probably filtered out depending on their current needs (need more workers? Underworks. Underworks fine? Bless the pilgrims into the choir or whatever)

[lean temple]

Just take an Everbloom from Ze'mer for good measure

[ember river]

The judges also (presumably) just killed sinners, not everyone

[cedar skiff]

well yeah, i just think its impressive how they wrote around it. hornets character isnt reliant on the events of hk itself up to the true ending cutscene.

[ember river]

Hey, new theory about where underworkers came from
Remember all these notes in the deep docks and greymoor about "send all workers"? Maybe that's where the thick of the recruitments came from

[lean temple]

It seems "sin" was a pretty wide umbrella so they still killed many

[brisk finch]

I think that's moreso because the events of HK are one night in a life that lasted eons

[molten cosmos]

Yes but the endings aren’t just one-off things they impact the future of that timeline and the only timeline we’re following rn is the dnm and godhome one which either means the others arent cannon or have seperate timelines

Both of these have huge impacts

[brisk finch]

Oooh, that would explain the relatively lack of pilgrim-like sprites

[twin pilot]

Well it’s always hard for me so I’m prepared. Plus I got to read Hornet’s journal and find out she loves fur balls, big and small. That’s enough for me lol.

[spark valve]

It was a vibe check if they didn’t like the look of you they just killed you

[viscid ridge]

Apparently gambling isnt considered a sin under the pharloom religion 🤣

[coral night]

I can't wait for them mossbag vids

[ember river]

Sin was probably akin to criminal, so those who killed, or stole, or criticized the faith or the Citadel were considered sinful

[edgy barn]

They spared enough for the citadel to have a large population of ex-pilgrims

[brisk finch]

"Sin" is when you die and don't ressurect

[twin pilot]

Or sick

[dapper willow]

isnt it funny that the only merchant who dies in act 3 is Mort?

[lean temple]

That could just be because of how long they've been around

[edgy barn]

Who

[ember river]

An ending being non-canon or in a parallel universe or alternate timeline is essentially the same

[lean temple]

Carrying a weapon to protect yourself is a sin cmon now

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet reference???

[ember river]

That too

[dapper willow]

30 rosaries door guy

[brisk finch]

Pilgrim's Rest? Ahhh, true

[dapper willow]

Pharloom needs a major social change

[viscid ridge]

Thats my exact thoughts about the subject

[edgy barn]

Ohhh that guy

Did you know you can beeak the door and never pay again?

[dapper willow]

15 dollar benches are diabolical

[cedar skiff]

yeah true. really tragic for hornet honestly, she can never get atteched to anything. its probably been a damn long time since she was as outright caring for people as she was in silksong, especially considering how long she mustve stood guard over dead hallownest

[coral night]

Also important context: it's a game... 😋 Not the bible

[dapper willow]

yes

[ember river]

Yeah, and also why the lower workers still kept faithful. They were promised to be taken to the citadel, and probably saw their coworkers be taken there as well, though they didn't expect to just be thrown into the literal cogs of the machine

[brisk finch]

I mean yes, it's non canon to Silksong
All HK endings are ""canon" and real to HK, there's no joke ending

[molten cosmos]

Something else as well that’s interesting is the fact that when hornet was saved by the knight the shade lord was also flashing which indicates one of 2 things

Either she saw the shade lord OR the shades in the back and it indicates that both endings work or it indicates she sees both which means that the knight can be both the shade lord and have the siblings with him at the same time

[rancid violet]

I mean, honestly fair if he wants you to pay each time you go in

[spark valve]

No she murders you if you smell bad different

[brisk finch]

You don't see the Shade Lord and the siblings at the same time if you slow down the footage

[ember river]

I think people give too much importance to canonicity in fiction, it's just a story being told, and if another good story can be told I don't see any reason why it shouldn't

[twin pilot]

I paid him 30 rosaries and I wandered around a little bit, and I almost cursed when I realized that I need to pay again.

[brisk finch]

Which.. you said
I can't read

[cedar skiff]

damn??

[molten cosmos]

Yeah but I mean he can like switch between it

[lean temple]

I don't think TC is gonna take 14 years to make games that account for THK/ sealed sibs endings

[molten cosmos]

Like it’s either all the siblings are there or it’s just the shade lord

[brisk finch]

I assume that it's meant to show Ghost is the Shade Lord and has the power, but its current form is friendlier for Hornet's sake (and recognizability for players)

[cedar skiff]

also the story of silksong remains literally unchanged whether dream no more or embrace the void is what happens before it

[dapper willow]

They need to hire more interns asap

[lean temple]

All siblings could just be way too many to show

[viscid ridge]

Yeah but it has implications for the story of HK

[cedar skiff]

and i dont even like the godmaster endings

[dapper willow]

Also more serious
When hornet gets the beast crest her voice chnages along with her demenour
What ways could the other crests change her behaviour that we are not shown?

[molten cosmos]

If that’s the case then that would mean the knight controls the shade lord and the shade lord is all the siblings together (since we don’t see the siblings in the shade lords presence)

[ember river]

The story of Hollow Knight is self contained, in each savefile you can choose a different ending and that's what happens

[brisk finch]

Ye I only care about specific endings because I want to know THK's status, as an actual cliffhanger. Which ending is canon when only matters for future works, not HK itself

[brisk finch]

Ay, Godhome all but states it

[ember river]

Yeah, that's fair

[lean temple]

You can break the mechanism on the door so it doesn't close again

[ember river]

EtV being canon does open the gates for THK still kicking around

[brisk finch]

This is the point I agree with for above stated reasons, but also
We'll find out eventually, probably, lol

[cedar skiff]

pure vessel fans are starving after silksong

[viscid ridge]

The godmaster endings are more like a AU, buy i definitely dont see them as canon. Even the base ending of Hollow Knight is more canon than those 2

[cedar skiff]

literally nothing, not even indication that it and hornet were sibling it up in the white palace

[brisk finch]

It's one of the things that makes Godhome more fitting for Silksong in my opinion
DNM puts a nice bow on everything, all the void siblings united

[twin pilot]

I figured it out when I got angry and slashing around the room lol.

[molten cosmos]

Man the things I’d do for a new game called hollow knight: pale king or something like that

[cedar skiff]

canonity to the side they just feel out of place to me

not for my enjoyement

[brisk finch]

Similar clothes and around at the same time=probably at least walked past one another at some point

[rancid violet]

The god seekers are really outta left field, they're clearly just an explanation to have a boss rush

[cedar skiff]

ykw the fandom can work with this sooo

[dapper willow]

making a boss rush canon is not easy

[brisk finch]

Sooo much cute fanart, TC even used to acknowledge it

[dapper willow]

i wish they ackowledged the insane mods that came out

[molten cosmos]

Now the question is does hornet see the knight with the siblings and the shade lord or does she see ONE of them because that would confirm if the knight can switch between those forms

[twin pilot]

Indeed

[brisk finch]

They also acknowleged Glass Soul

[cedar skiff]

interpreting lace and hornet as siblings fills he void siblings shaped hole in my heart

[ember river]

Is it actually the entire void controlled? I always took it as the Knight's ascended form, the absolute peak of its power, but still the knight underneath

[dapper willow]

oh we are talking about the canon endings again
I have a meme for this

[brisk finch]

I think she sees Ghost but feels Shade Lord

[edgy barn]

ngl during the red memory sequence i was expecting to see Hornet and PV training together

[molten cosmos]

What does that mean 😭

[brisk finch]

You can feel power radiating off something without seeing it with your eyes

[cedar skiff]

aura

[rancid violet]

Vessels got aura

[edgy barn]

Does this technically make TK and THK into Little Weavers

[brisk finch]

DONT START

[modern hollow]

didnt sonic say that

[brisk finch]

(lol)

[ember river]

Oh god not this again

[twin pilot]

I could never get enough of these cute Hallownest triple siblings, just enjoying themselves together.

[rancid violet]

Radiating scary vibes

[molten cosmos]

We aren’t seriously saying the shade lord has aura like that to flash himself in a cutscene 😭

[ember river]

The forgotten Broken Vessel:

[brisk finch]

I know it's literally never been possible in canon, but I just love it so much
Now we just need THK in Fleatopia

[modern hollow]

are you saying the shade lord doesnt have aura?

[dapper willow]

I know this From James Workshop

[brisk finch]

not an aura farming aura but like, power? ye?

[dapper willow]

Pale court?

[brisk finch]

That's a common concept?

[molten cosmos]

He has aura but like aura can’t do that

[brisk finch]

This is from https://www.teamcherry.com.au/blog/hidden-dreams-update-mods-summer-games-done-quick

[ember river]

It's the God of Gods, if that thing isn't powerful I don't know what is

[twin pilot]

Every one of them is loved! Even the poor little one in deep nest

[dapper willow]

these mods are cool too

[modern hollow]

i mean we dont know that i think

[cedar skiff]

did tc ever say anything about the voice over mod? likely not right that dropped around deep into silksong developement

god that was such a cool fucking project

[ember river]

Even the one Hornet murders right before she tries to murder us?

[modern hollow]

i can only imagine how thatll be in pharloom now that theres so many npcs

[molten cosmos]

I was more so going for interpretation of the knight can just choose to switch between forms which would mean the knight is basically himself a god

Like he can choose to control his army of siblings or the shade lord

Not the shade lord having aura

[brisk finch]

I do agree that it can switch, I just don't think it was physically switching on the spot in the cutscene

[twin pilot]

Well, it’s fair since she had probably been attacked by our void siblings…

[brisk finch]

Powerful entities have an aura of power around them, not meme aura

[twin pilot]

But for that one, sorry for them

[brisk finch]

This is a common trope even within HK

[ember river]

Yeah, I figured that was your base. I'm not sure if it would be able to sense and command all of the Void, but even in Void Given Form it's able to sense hornet and arrive to her in time so I guess that could make sense

[molten cosmos]

Yeah but hornet doesn’t even know of the shade lord as far as we know

[ember river]

Like wizards of fiction

[dapper willow]

I can't escape the Korean anime aura farmers

[brisk finch]

But she can feel power and that's visualized for us, the audience, with the actual sprite

[dapper willow]

even in HK

[brisk finch]

Like "aura farming" is such a recent term, this concept is much older!

[dapper willow]

They always had the aura though
even in dragon ball they all light up like christmas lights

[brisk finch]

it's often visualized as lightning/light in anime, yes
but "sensing power from the powerful" is also just older than Toriyama

[dapper willow]

yuh

[ember river]

It's more of a feeling, you know that sense of emptiness some describe when talking about the void? Imagine that but somehow you know it's controlled by someone, you can feel it converging in that shade and then, your mind can only produce that image for a split second

It's such a common sight in edlritch/lovecraftian stories and I love it as a way of conveying incredible power

[brisk finch]

Like, not older than Dragon Ball
Older than Akira Toriyama

[molten cosmos]

She can feel his power enough to see something she’s never seen before? I was thinking maybe depending on how the player wants to interpret it either hornet sees only the shade lord or only the siblings or she sees both and the knight can just switch

[narrow glacier]

What’s with the higher beings having knife legs?

[ember river]

Only two do

[brisk finch]

She can feel something and we get to see Shade Lord

[dapper willow]

they all float to show off their superiority

[cedar skiff]

pale king had no legs

at some point

[ember river]

Maybe they form their bodies like that to use them like antennae to enact their mind control?

Both of the examples ARE mind controlling after all

[twin pilot]

PK has a thing for forks in his head, I guess it’s a close match.

[cedar skiff]

is radiance mind controlling or just mind numbing

[molten cosmos]

Yes but you wouldn’t be able to visualise the shade lord off of that maybe you visualise the knight himself or his shade or the army but not something like the shade lord which she’s never seen

[pulsar mesa]

We're allow to post spoilery stuff here right?

[cedar skiff]

gms dispalys more outright control than radiance ever did

[brisk finch]

Yes

[molten cosmos]

That could be the case

[dapper willow]

This is a spoiler no holding back zone

[pulsar mesa]

Okay, okay. I need a bit of context; why does hornet rip out the green princes heart if she's just gonna add it to her trophy collection ?

[ember river]

Dunno, I like the idea of power/true nature just burning a glimpse in the memory for a split instant without ever actually becoming that

[brisk finch]

She already killed his bae and wanted to put him out of his misery
(no clue)

[brisk finch]

I think that's a very connected idea, in the way I think of this

[molten cosmos]

Well she needs the heart for the ritual

[brisk finch]

She only needs 3, she can claim 4

[dapper willow]

well I did not expec for that to happen
maybe she didn't either
Wouldn't be the first time the snails duped her with their annoying lies by ommission

[edgy barn]

He wanted to die

[pulsar mesa]

Lmao. My friend said you can use the green prince heart instead of one of the required 3 but idk how true that is. Still seems like she just did it for reasons.

[ember river]

You can claim 4 hearts, and put the heart of verdania, still beating, as a trophy

[brisk finch]

If you get 2+prince, then yes

You can skip 1 heart entirely

[molten cosmos]

Yeah but the devs probably didn’t think of all that

[ember river]

I guess she is preserving the beauty of Verdania, I guess?

[cedar skiff]

putting the dude out of his gay misery

[dapper willow]

my take on the shade lord flashing is that its sort of a vision of the true power that resides within the knight or somehting

[brisk finch]

Didn't think of what?

[ember river]

The devs thought of that, I think you can put the 4th heart as a trophy regardless of whichever one you grab

[molten cosmos]

You’d get 3 hearts and go for the 4th 😭

[brisk finch]

Yes, whatever 4th heart you claim is the memento

[brisk finch]

Who would skip an entire area+2 bosses?

No dev would assume that+you'd miss out on a memento

[molten cosmos]

Yeah but specifically the verdania heart I mean

[brisk finch]

Empty slot on the wall

[pulsar mesa]

Yeah lmao. I was honestly just completing content and like ??? She's adding it to her collection? Seems kinda messed up.

[cedar skiff]

i used the green princes heart on my first playthrough

[ember river]

Yeah, I get you, it could very well be total control and omniscience over the void when in Void Given Focus, though I'm not sure under what circumstances that form could be maintained

[brisk finch]

There's only 4 hearts, you need a 4th to get the memento

[dapper willow]

can't you get all 4 before going to the shamans
Which one will they take?

[brisk finch]

The Verdania one is easily the last to get because it's the only one not on the map

[ember river]

"Another fine addition to my collection"

[brisk finch]

They always leave Prince if you have 4

[vivid kernel]

If pale king was a primordial worm could grandmother silk have been some sort of primordial spider?

[ember river]

They'll leave the verdania one

[brisk finch]

Only if you have 2+prince can you get an alt memento

[dapper willow]

I guess the snails are homophobic as well

[brisk finch]

by getting the 4th after the ritual

[ember river]

Could be, yeah

[molten cosmos]

Yeah so I’m saying maybe you use the verdania heart in the ritual you get one of the other 3 for the memento and the devs didn’t specially think you’d be evil enough to go for verdania heart the last and use it as a trophy

[regal crow]

There any shortcuts to get back to ||graol||? That runback is gonna be insane

[dapper willow]

yes

[ember river]

There's a secret bench

[dapper willow]

unless you already found it in which case no

[vivid kernel]

Are there only 3 endings? wanna check i did them all

[brisk finch]

Verdania is the only one not on the map, it's the least likely you'll go for it first and skip one fo the other 3

[molten cosmos]

Also we did waste a simple key on the green prince so maybe she does deserve the heart

[regal crow]

Yeah, a secret bench you gotta wade through worms to get to 🙁

[ember river]

Yep, just like in HK when it released

[pulsar mesa]

Lmao. I do like getting extra context with verdania but that seemed extreme and idk why hornet would do that if she didn't need it.

[molten cosmos]

That is true

[vivid kernel]

thanks!

[brisk finch]

Weaver Queen, Twisted Child (cursed) and Sibling of the Void ye

[twin pilot]

So this is a tricky little question, does anyone know where the name Imoba comes from?? I couldn’t find any word that rings a bell

[dapper willow]

would be fitting for the horrible capitalistic nightmare that is pharloom

[molten cosmos]

She needs payment for that simple key

[solar agate]

One thing that I now realized after I am done with the game is that Hunter's Crest pogo does make Hornet resemble how a hornet would sting...

[vivid kernel]

oh I havent done the cursed child onr yet

[ember river]

There are no enemies, though, and you can leave it without going through the maggot waters by timing a harpoon through that passage, it's pretty generous

[brisk finch]

Do you want advice?

[vivid kernel]

nah its ok, Ik abt it, I just forgot aha

[brisk finch]

Ah fair enough. Enjoy! The final fight is a lot of fun cursed

[molten cosmos]

I can’t wait for the weathered mask to somehow end up in pharloom

[rancid violet]

I mean... godseekers stuff does look kinda similar to citadel architecture

[twin pilot]

Maybe Ghost bring it over and send it as a gift

But I’m just saying

[brisk finch]

Ghost should send a lil gift basket with THK to Fleatopia

[open remnant]

anyone have any opinion on te vs godmaster as the actual cannon ending

[open remnant]

bro they should send over the grub tribe somehow to the fleas

[twin pilot]

I’d love to see THK in Fleatopia

[pulsar mesa]

The contrast between the prince and the one nailguy from hollow knights really funny in retrospect too. Given hollow knights "don't fulfill his wish of ending it because there are better things" vs this just being "hm. I need your heart(maybe)."

[molten cosmos]

I can’t even imagine what they could do with a godhome in silksong

[brisk finch]

I like Godhome's endings best for Silksong to continue from, even if DNM works best from a standalone perspective

[molten cosmos]

How would hornet ascend would she fight absolute lost lace or absolute mother

[ember river]

It really doesn't other than it's gilded

[edgy barn]

"there's plenty of space" said Grubfather to the fleas.

[glossy badger]

And he sets a new highscore of flea juggle to 200

[open remnant]

yes

[pulsar mesa]

Green Prince needs a Pilby scenario

[vale jetty]

Hey! Got a question - do we have evidence that First Sinner and Widow are not the same exact weaver?

[ember river]

"Come inside, it's warm!" A voice came, from the suspiciously grubfather-shaped tunnel

[mint furnace]

…yes?

[brisk finch]

We kill one in a different area

[open remnant]

like story wise i don’t know how it would work with void taking over hallwonest, hear me out tho: dlc where hornet un voids hollowness like in silksong

[edgy barn]

I

[rancid violet]

There isn't any evidence they're the same as far as I know

[edgy barn]

how do you even begin tackling that

[brisk finch]

Delicate Flower ending, and the flower simply banished the void instead of destroying it (which it's shown it can't do)

[ember river]

I don't think EtV means the void overtakes Hallownest

[teal drift]

The shade lord is just a super chill guy

[mint furnace]

Widow and first sinner have entirely different story as they are entirely different characters, they just share a theme song

[ember river]

Even without Delicate Flower it doesn't seem to reach much higher, I think that just means the dreamseeker's physical form becomes a vessel for the void, with mind alligned

[vale jetty]

Well... What if Widow is first sinner fred by Lace at some point to serve GMS? They lost their mask and got enslaved?

[brisk finch]

Nah but I like DF 😄

[ember river]

Then why is first sinner still alive

[glossy badger]

If it banished it to the abyss that'd be cool

[open remnant]

yeah fair enough

[spark valve]

First sinner is dead in the cell

[open remnant]

still i want some sort of dlc to merge the 2 games

[dapper willow]

silksong seems to be doing a lot of music sharing
I guess it makes sense with how big the game is but more music would be cool

[brisk finch]

Everyone on the Godhome side shills ETV, I gotta do my part for DF

[vale jetty]

It's a dream, memory... That would explain respawning near the fight place instead of bench

[ember river]

That can work too, I mean for how the normal EtV doesn't actually destroy Hallownest either, which some people think they do

[open remnant]

imo every single soundtrack is goated even tho there r a little less

[mint furnace]

First sinner was the first to learn about the weavers origins, widow is just an insane weaver recruited by GMS

[brisk finch]

I think both are fine, but DF also ties into Skong a bit nicer by showing off the flower so explicitely

[ember river]

Sadly I found Godseeker after completing the quest, but I went out of my way to give the delicate flowers to as many people as I could

[dapper willow]

The weaver statues are like their corpse... so unless Widow had 2 bodies I don't think they are the same person...

[vale jetty]

Well, why wouldn't that be the same weaver?

[twin pilot]

Well they definitely deserve some fur balls and warm brew, even at the cost of me cursing shouting crying screaming on the other side of the screen

[mint furnace]

Well, made insane by GMS? I forgot that one needleoin dialogue

[brisk finch]

Good

[open remnant]

yeah i’m not the most versed in lore but how would hornet see the flowered capabilities any other way?

[vale jetty]

Please try to convince me FS and Widow are not the same weaver

[ember river]

Elderbug with the flower warms my voidheart

[ember river]

They have different journal entries

[mint furnace]

Just how would they be

[ember river]

If you want text instead of common sense

[teal drift]

Pale king experiments with void in palace. He or white lady show hornet abilities of magic anti void flower.

[vale jetty]

FS is memory of Widow inside this jail

[ember river]

And we all know the journal is omniscient

[spark valve]

FS:
Dead
In the cell
Spiky shoulders
Widow:
alive
out and about
Spiky hips

[open remnant]

maybe

[mint furnace]

Saying x character is also x is not… it’s not a thing

[gleaming creek]

Do we know anything about the cut hairy snail npc who was seen in the 2019 trailer?

[glossy badger]

Silksong secret ending where hornet turns into a flea after scoring so high in the flea games

[brisk finch]

White Lady was aware

[twin pilot]

Hornet said she was tortured by those pin in her back

[vale jetty]

Yeah, same as Lost Kin and Broken Vessel

[brisk finch]

YES

[dapper willow]

read my response
Also its really hard to justify them being the same person

[mint furnace]

Yeah, probably made insane by GMS. There’s a secret dialogue that talks about it but I forgot it

[rancid violet]

Widow has their mask and ability to produce silk removed forcibly but first Sinner can still use silk and has her identity

[ember river]

The "stone" weavers are more like mummies than memories
Also, to access a memory you have to play the abyssal melody, not bind it

[edgy barn]

Of all the examples you could have used, you pick the one that is false?

[dapper willow]

this

[ember river]

The allegiances also lay different, Widow is sided with GMS, while First Sinner openly opposes her and the Weavers' divinity

[brisk finch]

Honestly, a good example of what would probably be a "non canon" ending/not tied to ingame logic
Instead we need a dog ending
SILENT HILL NO UTA

[sinful nimbus]

FS is dead

Kinda big deal

[mint furnace]

Widow is a dead weaver from like 200 years ago evidence years ago, evidence is that it just is

[twin pilot]

FS is probably teaching Hornet in a dream, because losing to her in the Steel Mode would not be considered as a failure

[spark valve]

FS is also still in the cage which has intact seals on it that hornet has to break to enter

[glossy badger]

I do like joke endings

[ember river]

Cope is approaching critical levels

Please vacate the area immediately for risk of copium intoxication

[mint furnace]

Wonder if they do that to show Hornet the weaver origin

She just seems to say “okay then” and keep going though

[glossy badger]

I think asking people to disprove a claim that has no proof to even disprove of is pretty funny

[ember river]

FS fight isn't a true dream fight, since you use up tools unlike in proper dreamfights, but you don't die there either

I think it's more of a test of strength to see you're worthy of binding her

[vale jetty]

Why though? I don't believe that FS actually IS Widow, I just wanted to play dodge that argument to check if it actually is defendable

[open remnant]

it’s smt diff bec of the vessel she’s in and what not i think

[mint furnace]

Hornet is on a silk induced acid trip in an empty room

That’s the only explanation

[dapper willow]

she is just nice enough to deposit you outside her cell and go back to sleep

[open remnant]

phasmium induced trust

[ember river]

The Pale King was an anime addict and you cannot disprove that

[rancid violet]

He loved Saw art online

[mint furnace]

Pale king is actually ghost and you cannot disprove that

[glossy badger]

If you had provided a proper argument at first with points to actually question it wouldve worked

[twin pilot]

It’s hard to say, although in the memory it seems weavers do want her to free them from GMS.

[ember river]

I can because the Knight is addicted to heroin and the Pale King was addicted to cocaine

Meanwhile the Radiance was a gambler

She's hiding from the mob

[mint furnace]

Hornet canonically drinks, does addictive drugs, and gambles

[glossy badger]

This is true

[mint furnace]

Horrific behavior

[rancid violet]

God forbid a girl have hobbies

[ember river]

Hornet isn't void, she's Radiance

[twin pilot]

But nonetheless it was not lethal, unlike Pinstress ouch

[glossy badger]

And is racist

[mint furnace]

Okay but that’s valid

[ember river]

Pinstress just wanted to kill or die trying

[mint furnace]

The flies do not deserve life

[brisk finch]

Hornet believes in vessel and other non-bug rights

[glossy badger]

Fly people are people too

[ember river]

A final stand against those who shared her sentiment

[mint furnace]

NO, BURN THEM

[glossy badger]

Wow....

[brisk finch]

Wisp Thicket moment

[mint furnace]

Also think it’s funny that the people who capture hornet, the spider, are flies

[ember river]

Well well, how the turntables?

[twin pilot]

I like both of them. SS has some really good side characters IMO.

[ember river]

They had many more interactions, and reactions to triggers than in HK too

[mint furnace]

Does anyone else find the bug language in silksong nicer to listen to

[ember river]

I like how Mr Mushroom sings

[glossy badger]

Yes

[mint furnace]

The voice acting is way more peak

YANAVA, NOSHKE

[twin pilot]

Pinstress pretending she was busy and actually wiping her desk is one of my favorite little scene

[brisk finch]

Green Prince's singing is so appealing

[edgy barn]

Gambles? When?

[brisk finch]

Dice guy

[mint furnace]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1410591760605909104/1415794754243006558/SPOILER_hysskongalt.gif

[glossy badger]

Favourite moment in the game

[twin pilot]

I feel sad for Phantom. A shame we don’t get to know much of their story

[edgy barn]

Oh. I visited him once, decided to come back later, and by the time I returned he was already dead.

[dapper willow]

best bird

[brisk finch]

You can with the dice, loot the dice or buy the dice off Grindle depending on when you get there

[sacred crater]

hmmm

[rancid violet]

How does dice guy die

[dapper willow]

sand infection

[twin pilot]

She coos when you needolin, cute

[glossy badger]

Best mushroom

[brisk finch]

I don't know what the trigger is, but before act 3
I think act 3 triggers sthe Grindle looting

[mint furnace]

It’s coarse and it gets everywhere

[dapper willow]

Something probably eats him idk
or sand
That place is no good

[sacred crater]

Why does the vessel in the real ending have the hollow knights antlers and not the knights

[dapper willow]

nah he dies before

[brisk finch]

That's what I'm saying

[mint furnace]

The vessels are all sort of independent but also sort of one entity

Shade lord is weird but it seems like when they’re in the abyss they power ranger combine

[glossy badger]

And the wind gets louder aswell

[edgy barn]

That's what the knight's shade looks like in the Dream no more ending, Also when using shade dash and void spells

[sacred crater]

They have different antlers in the backround, does this mean the hollow knight was the one to save hornet? Honestly it is possible they saw each other

[sacred crater]

oh weird

[brisk finch]

The Hollow Knight shade is big like THK is

You can see it in DNM

[mint furnace]

Hornet seems surprised to see him so it has to be one of the two

[sacred crater]

i'm just talking about the antlers

[brisk finch]

It would be unmissable on screen

[mint furnace]

It’s actually not the knight, it the vessel Hornet kills in green path and she thinks it’s about to fucking kill her

[sacred crater]

^

oh you're right

it is his shade wow i never realised that what

[twin pilot]

Pharloom is a haunted place and I suppose no where would be safe or good

[mint furnace]

Unless you’re Sherma

[dapper willow]

the vibes are very good in the sand area though

Maybe if some modders are insane enough they can add sand acumulating on hornet's dress

[sacred crater]

ok this is weird so i just checked and from the look of things the vessels have the same head shape as shades too but the knight his antlers change into the antlers the hollow knight had as a kid when he turns into a shade

[twin pilot]

Or Shakra

[mint furnace]

Still dangerous for shakra, she’s just there for that reason

[brisk finch]

They're not actually the same even in shade form, just more similar than their normal vessel appearance

[rancid violet]

Shakra is a paper wasp tho so she can do whatever she wants

[brisk finch]

But we never actually see tiny THK's shade to begin with, only the big one

[sacred crater]

The knights shade looks identical to the hollow knight baby vessels antlers

[twin pilot]

Definitely not a good place for poor Hornet controlled by me

[sacred crater]

they change shape from the normal knight

[twin pilot]

I’ve been forcing her to swim in bilewater

[lean temple]

It's the Knight. That's what their shade form looks like

[mint furnace]

Mmmm yummy

[rain spindle]

The knight has tentacles.

[lean temple]

That has been true since the first game

[golden olive]

are crests related to weavers

[rain spindle]

Hornet is a woman.

Hmmmm

[lean temple]

Crests are like an imprint on your soul/identity

[rain spindle]

Knight cant use them cause they have no soul

[golden olive]

but how is hornet binding stuff from non weavers

[rain spindle]

Nor identify

[golden olive]

EW

[twin pilot]

Their horns slightly grown in DNM, don’t have a clue why that is

[rain spindle]

Knight is probably growing like pure vessel

[brisk finch]

It's a Weaver skill to bind with anything at all, not just Weavers

[golden olive]

mmm ok

[rancid violet]

Silk can bind anything, that's the whole deal with the haunting

[lean temple]

Might be because of how her Wyrn side interacts with her Weaver abilities

[rain spindle]

So how the knight can use the weaver charm without silk?

Cause the lil spiders are made of silk

[golden olive]

soul shenanigans

[cloud plover]

bc tc didn’t think that far ahead

[sacred crater]

look man

[lean temple]

The charm itself could have all the necessary silk to function on its own

[rain spindle]

But it regenerates

How

[twin pilot]

It would be a fair point, but I think Ghost had travelled outside Hallownest for a really long time

[edgy barn]

It absorbs soul from the enviroment and turns it into silk

[lean temple]

Knight's Shade still has THK horns here

[rain spindle]

The way a vessel grows is by acquiring power

Pure vessel got trained. Knight became a higher being

[lean temple]

They always had them

[brisk finch]

And THK is literally in the scene

[sacred crater]

yeah

[twin pilot]

Still, they were half of a higher being, so I suppose that’s why

[sacred crater]

it's weird

[lean temple]

We've come to accept it

[rain spindle]

I kinda want to see a grown knight

[brisk finch]

Ye I see it more so as adding more protrustions, like the tentacles

[rain spindle]

(Vessels grow cause they are part plant. Its their white lady genes)

[twin pilot]

Hornet would probably grow a little bit too

[brisk finch]

There's only so many ways to do that to Ghost's basic shape without making it look bad

[edgy barn]

Same

[twin pilot]

I was thinking about her with two more limbs

[sacred crater]

literally there is a hornet baby scene all bugs grow from kids to adults

[rain spindle]

I mean the way vessels grow

[rancid violet]

Hot take
Animals grow

[brisk finch]

I'd like for TC to post a sketch of grown up Knight, even if Skong perma kills the idea of seeing it in game

[sacred crater]

hmm maybe

[twin pilot]

It’s not quite pleasant but I would get used to it

[edgy barn]

Yeah but I think them being part Root if why they can grow so big

[rain spindle]

Thry stay the same until they get power. And grow. Like white lady

[twin pilot]

I think it’s the Mask maker who directly told us that in SS

[rain spindle]

...They did

?

[twin pilot]

And Hornet somehow know they obtained much hidden or forgotten knowledge

[rain spindle]

Its cause of the sight

[brisk finch]

Mask Makers seem to just be a known group of people

You see one, you know what to expect

[twin pilot]

They did, when you get their mask off, they would told Hornet a bunch of stuff which, basically sounds like mossbag

[rain spindle]

Mossbag is a mask maker confirmed

[twin pilot]

Just spitting out lore facts

[twin pilot]

Must be

[lean temple]

Because they have the sight

[rain spindle]

Will mossbag release videos on silksong

[rancid violet]

Yeah

He was making vids analysing everything we knew before it came out, I imagine he's just working his way through the game

[open remnant]

no we sacrificed him for the release of silksong, unless he survived, which would break the time space continuum, then no sadly he will not be making any silksong videos

[rancid violet]

Is Mr mushroom in silksong?

[muted lantern]

Yes

Passing of an age questline in act 3

[rancid violet]

I'll get to act 3 eventually

Just gotta do shakra's quest

[lethal burrow]

how much control does grand mother silk have over the haunting?

[rancid violet]

It seems like everyone affected follows the basic command to keep everything the same forever

[muted lantern]

I think a solid amount, she actively revives dead bodies when hornet comes near,

As shown in the village under Moss home in the marrow

And a lot of other places

I think it's not full control of the individual bodies but enough that they will follow her general directions, but also not enough control for communication and precise manipulation, she can't make them non hostile, probably because her own anger is seeping through

But are they only becoming hostile recently? Or are they only hostile to hornet? Weren't the leaders of the citadel haunted for a long time and not like actively aggressive?

However she does possess bugs on the spot under mosshome, we see the thread go into them in our presumably first encounter with the possessed

[marble blade]

is zote boat cannon

[pure belfry]

do we get any new lore about the ancient civilization or its ties to the abyss/void? obviously The Abyss in Silksong is very reminiscent of Ancient Basin which also had proximity to Hallownest's own Abyss. obviously, there's also the arcane egg present in both games.

[spark valve]

No nothing new about ac other than it being widespread

[lethal burrow]

the people in underworks still clean everywhere and I don't know why she would want them to be doing that.

I also don't know why she would want hornet to be killed

[pure belfry]

there is a Weavenest present in the Abyss. Do you think the Weavers have anything to do with the AC?

[muted lantern]

That could be a gameplay aspect, they theoretically could be just capturing her, but what's more likely is that silks emotions are leeching into the haunted making them aggressive, similar to the radiances infection.

[sinful nimbus]

There are some tablets from them saying that they want void to "cleanse" them and their desires by feeling its "embrace"

[spark valve]

No

[rancid violet]

I think weavers just came by after ac and studied them and the void

[muted lantern]

We don't also see the haunted kill anyone else, we see them attack people but not kill them, so it could be like they take them to be assimilated or something

[sinful nimbus]

Which could mean a multitude of things but whatever it is we now know bugs were getting chucked there for religious reasons

[muted lantern]

But that wouldn't make much sense

My best guess was that the haunting at first was just a subtle influence but as it gained in power and silk got closer to waking her rage overwhelmed them and they started attacking anything that wasn't haunted

Because if they get killed she can possess their bodies

So honestly it could still be intentional, silk might not need hornet alive

[spark valve]

She probably doesn’t need her alive

[pure belfry]

whatever the ancient civilization actually was or the full details of it, Team Cherry seems intent on keeping it extremely cryptic for 2 games now. 7 years on a sequel and not much new to say on it which I think is interesting. Maybe they want to keep it vague so the community can keep wondering and speculating on the mystery of it, or they could maybe have plans for it in dlc?

Hornet does have elegy of the deep which lets her enter the past or people's memories. Maybe there's something they could do with that that lets us enter the AC in its past?

[maiden meteor]

Imo we know as much as we have to

if we had too much AC info it just wouldn’t be as fun

[craggy smelt]

I would love this
but the whole thing is fraught - the big appeal of the AC is all the mystery, exploring them more might spoil it

[foggy fractal]

hey guys

[craggy smelt]

hey look, it's Andy

[pure belfry]

I think they could reserve some of the mystery. Right now there's so much mystery about the AC it's hard to speculate on at all.

[craggy smelt]

I wouldn't mind a larger Abyss - maybe find another statue/fossil with a Void bowl
not that you would get a Shade dash for Hornet, it's just a really cool set-piece - more ancient corpses

[pure belfry]

I have an idea. Maybe, with the AC being well..ancient, we only go far enough into the past to see some last living remnant of it. an npc or an echo of one that itself has long since vanished in the present.

go into the past and speak to some historian studying the ancient civilization

[foggy fractal]

🗣️ another big ass ancient corpse to the world of hollow knight

[craggy smelt]

I love those things

[maiden meteor]

Add Gargantua Leviathan skull to Abyss

[lean temple]

There's that huge corpse on the way to Sprintmaster

[wide bridge]

okay guys hear me out what if the hunter is a weaver or atleast a relative of the weavers
-6 eyes
-Big ass round head shape
-Similar body anatomy

he could be a huntsman spider cause those dont make webs and actively hunt and also they're huge like he is

[sterile furnace]

Does anyone have any idea why you gotta fight the bell beast before it becomes friendly? I think it might be sorta like the mantis lords but honestly I have no idea :)

[maiden meteor]

she wants to play :)

[lean temple]

If he was he would comment on it

[wide bridge]

i guess he could mention it in the weaver related journal entries but idk i still think its a fun idea

[lean temple]

This is hypothetical version of how he'd look like based on ingame stuff and I think it's more accurate

[heavy gyro]

Weavers also got 4 legs and hunter has 2

[muted lantern]

What do y'all think is the most likely canon ending of hk1 between the 2 options, I know it's purposely uncertain but what's your thoughts, and what do you think would be more narratively satisfying? In embrace the voids favor I think it's nice to have hollow have a chance at life, and possibly show up in the future, but dnm seems more thematically coherent I guess, hard to explain why but etv really does feel like a bonus ending and hornet doesn't really play a major part

[wide bridge]

this is also a cool idea! the weaver relative concept i guess is more of a headcanon that i like than a theory

[fallow aurora]

When SS mobile port coming

[fringe comet]

i would say ETV because of the shade lord, i do agree that DNM would be more narratively satisfying but SS seems to present ETV as the likely ending
It is up for debate though, the question is whether shade lord could exist in the void without atunement to godhome

[heavy gyro]

Did herrah get her spherical mask removed

[keen ravine]

Has anyone seen what these think when Needolin'd?

[muted lantern]

There's also the matter of thks shade not being visible in the ending

[keen ravine]

I couldn't do it

[fringe comet]

yes i agree that needs to be considered as well

[keen ravine]

Interesting point, maybe before birth or pregnancy

[muted lantern]

I think you can't because needolin only effects creatures with silk in them, and all pharloom creatures have silk because of the white ward experiments

[keen ravine]

Not really

You add silk to them

[muted lantern]

?

[lethal burrow]

But they don't need things to be dead for them to be possessed

[keen ravine]

You capture them with your silk while you play the song isn't that it?

[muted lantern]

Yes but it's easier

With no will to fight back

[lethal burrow]

looks more like a Weaver than harrah

[wide bridge]

true lol

[tacit lake]

is first sinner related to gms in someway?

[wide bridge]

though herrah is the queen so it makes sense for her too look different, i mean just look at the mantis lords, they look quite different from the mantises

[foggy fractal]

given his number of limbs and hands I'd say no
plus theres no evidence besides the visual connection so

[lethal burrow]

Just basic animal stuff nothing interesting

[muted lantern]

No, the song uses the silk in them to hold the bugs in place, like widow does, that's why we get it from binding her, remember widow can't use her own silk, we are using the silk within creatures to make them sing out their innermost thoughts

[dry bridge]

the same way all weavers are related to GMS, she uplifted pharlids to make the first weavers.

[lethal burrow]

She is a weaver so yes

[tacit lake]

is she tryna prevent us from doing something like widow with the bell?