sk-lore

[steep ridge]

not caretaker or hermit

[narrow sky]

also wtf is the stuff they give you?

[steep ridge]

a piece of their soul ig

[urban zephyr]

I only thought to check 2nd playthrough
Also fun fact if you plau the needolin in front of the csretaker's lil shelter before ringing the bell, his eyes will peek out at you quietly like "wtf is she doing"

[steep ridge]

oh that's cute

[narrow sky]

is that what the snail shaman from hk does?

[steep ridge]

definitely doing that in my next casual playthrough

[steep ridge]

probably

[urban zephyr]

The swirling jars? It is their excess soul power contained. Snail shamans can seemingly generate a lot of it which is why they are masters of soul spells

[hidden crater]

When I saw him calling me a slave I was like "when do you die"

[steep ridge]

I wanted to execute him then and there

sad that him dying brought caretaker and maiden with him those 2 weren't that bad

[chrome atlas]

Tbf it's probably not their souls, the Chapel Maid's recipes all ask for pilgrim souls so you're probably carrying around some poor dude's lifeblood (not the blue fanta)

[hidden crater]

Blue fanta 😭

[steep ridge]

it's the fanta that makes you blue, like papyrus' special attack

[narrow sky]

is lifeblood connected to the void somehow?

[urban zephyr]

Hm true i kinda didnt understand the deal w/ that lore tablet but youre maybe right. Regardless they ARE masters of soul energy whether it is their own or not. Hard tk say where they got it all from tho

[hidden crater]

Chapel maid lowkey chill

[steep ridge]

void is my estrogen dealer

[steep ridge]

she's the one that directs hornet all over the place to save pharloom the other 2 do jack shit

[chrome atlas]

It likely is but we don't know how, the big lifeblood room in Hollow Knight is in the Abyss and the lifeblood in Silksong goes nuts after the void gets snippy

[steep ridge]

kinda sad that caretaker doesn't say much in act 3 lol

[narrow sky]

didn't know void was chill like that

[manic pewter]

transitions in the shade lord

[hidden crater]

proceeds to destroy every atom of the suns existence

[manic pewter]

what are we gonna fight the sun?

[steep ridge]

I always forget it's chapel MAID that gives you the MAIDEN'S soul

[hidden crater]

"What are we gonna fight the moon?"

[steep ridge]

stupid distinction

[urban zephyr]

Not a shady drug dealer just the shade lord drug dealer. Theyre chill :)

[narrow sky]

you do get shriek next to the dead shaman

[steep ridge]

you mean wraiths

I've become really pedantic in the wake of sister of the void

[manic pewter]

oh thats what sotv stands for

[hidden crater]

The void gives you tendriiils

[steep ridge]

no that stands for symphony of the vnight

[manic pewter]

wait a transfem i follow posted a meme tangentially related to this today

[urban zephyr]

Estrogen has so many gender affirming effects. Softer skin, fuller chest, eldritch void tendrils, magical screams

[steep ridge]

a transfem I follow that just sounds like my entire twitter timeline

[vague whale]

great game

[vague whale]

genuinely so lucky to have played it as my first metroidvania as a kid

[steep ridge]

my first metroidvania was metroid prime (does that count? I think it counts)

[vague whale]

it's a metroid

that's like half the name

it has to count surely

[hidden crater]

I need a beastling plushie

[narrow sky]

i gotta get on that

[vague whale]

Samus is in it we love to see that

[manic pewter]

my first metroidvania was hk :3

[urban zephyr]

Actual lore question: do we think there is anything significsnt to these beyond just vague world building?

[narrow sky]

they better make one

[urban zephyr]

These just seem...idk it feels like they are hiding something

[vague whale]

Agreed

[steep ridge]

definitely just seems like the soul sanctum lore tablets

[vague whale]

more people should

[steep ridge]

just lore for worldbuilding and all that

wait bad example

[manic pewter]

Yeah i feel like that sorta thing we can pull out for supporting evidence for something in the future not so much a starting point

[hidden crater]

A plushie of these 2 fr

[urban zephyr]

Yea i thought they were gonna be for some secret puzzle but nothing matches so it does just seem like general world building. But it still bugs me

[narrow sky]

life sized flea

[manic pewter]

my friend crocheted me a flea plush!

[narrow sky]

just a giant pillow

[steep ridge]

yeah for now it's just lore for the dreg catchers and...

where the fuck are the last 2 again?

[vague whale]

and the smelters

[urban zephyr]

In deep docks. I think neat forge daughter

[hidden crater]

Grand mother silk plushie (with soul snare included)

[steep ridge]

alright yeah the dock workers

[narrow sky]

it's just the size of a building

[manic pewter]

when i finish my uni assignments for this sem im gonna 3d print a gms statue for sure

[urban zephyr]

Ok but consider these are bugs. Gisnt flea would be like a lil marshmallow

GMS would be the size of sn average small plushy

[steep ridge]

it'd probably be as big as a game controller at most

[hidden crater]

They should include a detachable arm for GMS plushie

[manic pewter]

i do actually know someone who i have commissioned for plushes before so i could commission her for a gms plushie hmmmmrgh

she does have the skill

[hidden crater]

https://tenor.com/view/doja-cat-star-wars-gif-25078126

[manic pewter]

ok but lore amiright

has anyone worked on deciphering mr mushrooms stuff

[narrow sky]

i'm way too stupid for that

i do have a screenshot for every dialog he gives

[hidden crater]

I dont have sporeshroom idk what hes yapping ab

[heavy falcon]

Where did the everbloom originate?

[urban zephyr]

(im apparently deeply incorrect about this i forgot basic HK lore lmao)
We dont know for sure but seems to be sourced in hallownest. Likely from pale lady and kept alive by pale mourner)

[crisp musk]

So when theres, in approximatly 50 or so years, a third installment in the world of hollowknight, what protagonist would be the choice?
Hot take, but i would do think that mayhaps a snail shaman would be a choice.
Like, perfect opportunity to expand on one of the most misterious factions of the game, and the gameplay could also be a big shakeup again with all spells instead of nail and tools
Forgot about pablo

[urban zephyr]

Maybe more concrete lore im forgetting

[narrow sky]

doesn't pale lady say is not from hallownest?

[urban zephyr]

I have this cool ability called "i forget things and also how to read" so probably

[narrow sky]

omg me too

[urban zephyr]

I need to see the dream sequence again

[narrow sky]

i think it's when you try to give it to her in hk

[urban zephyr]

Ohhhh

[robust wagon]

No it's said that Ze'mer (one of the 5 great knights) brought it from wherever she was from

[urban zephyr]

Hm. That needs some investigsting then cuz it"d be good to know what she says

[narrow sky]

my brain is like 50% hollow knight lore

[urban zephyr]

Ahhh ok right. That is something id have completely forgot from my time in hk years ago

[urban zephyr]

Your left brain is for HK and your right brsin was being reserved for silksong

[crisp musk]

So when theres, in approximatly 50 or so years, a third installment in the world of hollowknight, what protagonist would be the choice?
Hot take, but i would do think that mayhaps a snail shaman would be a choice.
Like, perfect opportunity to expand on one of the most misterious factions of the game, and the gameplay could also be a big shakeup again with all spells instead of nail and tools

[foggy flume]

Is this cannon just asking

[narrow sky]

we play as one of the fuckin flies

[crisp musk]

sadly, no

[tawdry flare]

Yeah but TC would tie it into void again and we all know they can’t be trusted with that

[chrome atlas]

petition to lend sherma the silkshot so he can take care of some business in whiteward

[crisp musk]

On another, similar note
Its crazy that, after what we have witnessed in act 3, that the Pale King made actual. working. stable. void constructs, namely kingmoulds, and by extension the vessels
A miracle

[narrow sky]

why does the snailshaman from hk say that they never thought to check the void?

[tawdry flare]

Are you a part of the “How can I use this to glaze the Pale King” crowd

[urban zephyr]

Yes this happens if you dont sing with sherma or play in the pool with him

[chrome atlas]

bro after seeing what pharloom was like i'm singing his prayers

[crisp musk]

Whatever you want to say, the pale king did an infinitly better job than whatever happened in pharloom

[tawdry flare]

A: He is from a different tribe of shamans
B: Things have changed among Shamans between HK1 and SS
C: He is Stupid
D: they retconned it

[rugged sigil]

holy glaze

[vague whale]

He lied lol?

[crisp musk]

spend the kingdoms budget on sawblades, still made a livable place with thriving economy (until the moth got angry)

[vague whale]

it's absolutely insane that Hallownest was still a livable environment after PK spent so much money on sawblades

[narrow sky]

He can't do that

[vague whale]

why not

[narrow sky]

Hurts my feelings

[vague whale]

well I will issue you a formal apology on his behalf for that, then

[vague whale]

We here at Snail Shamans Incorporated are extremely sorry for any loss of morale suffered by statements we may or may not have said in your presence. Such statements are not to be taken as truth and we hope your opinion of Snail Shamans Incorporated can be improved in the future. Please take this complementary 0 geo piece as compensation for your time.

Signed, Snail Shaman

[crisp musk]

And hornet seems to have also gotten a fondness for sawblades
shaw-blades, the ones from the 12th architect

[vague whale]

yeup

[narrow sky]

Feels like I got ripped off somehow

[heavy falcon]

What's geo? Just shiny rock?

[narrow sky]

Fossil

[heavy falcon]

Could you fashion shards into geo perhaps?

[crisp musk]

And rosaries are carved silver, pearls, and maybe wood?

[vague whale]

Coral

the red ones are totally coral

[vague whale]

nah

[narrow sky]

That would be like turning a rock into a fossil

Would that be forgery?

[heavy falcon]

Well, yeah, but who cares when the economy is practically dead, and wild animals drop currency

[eager ermine]

do yall think that the grey mourner can jus eviscerate the abyss with her infinite everblooms

[scenic stirrup]

Hello

On my second playthrough pilby didnt die

[chrome atlas]

letsgooooo

[scenic stirrup]

He went to pilgrims rest but idk where he is now in act 3

💀

[eager ermine]

how do u do that

[scenic stirrup]

I think if u donate shards real early u can prevent the tyrant from ever attacking bone bottom

Like donate shards first before doing before doing the tyrant thing

[narrow sky]

You just don't do the tyrant quest till act 2

[scenic stirrup]

Oh and that maybe

[eager ermine]

for the statue or the bridge

[eager ermine]

oh that?

damn i killed a scared guy for just wanting to do quests

[scenic stirrup]

Where is pilby now i hope hes good

[eager ermine]

rip

[scenic stirrup]

[narrow sky]

I have no clue

[scenic stirrup]

Last time i saw him was in pilgrims rest and i also killed the bull creature before it escaped so it never attacked the place

[ancient dock]

Bone bottom || gets destroyed regardless ||

[scenic stirrup]

Hes gone in act 3

Yeye

[ancient dock]

Pretty sure they move camp to the upper levels in act 3

[eager ermine]

do yall think ||the knight or the shadelord started to pull up to pharloom when it sensed hornet in the abyss or when the everbloom ran out||

[scenic stirrup]

Feel like the knight would help her if she asked

So he only intervened when hornet was in danger

Also i feel like the void isnt as unified as ppl think

Since if he was I think once hornet went down i feel like he would help her immediately

[eager ermine]

void with mind to think a will to break and still no voice to cry suffering

[scenic stirrup]

Also some void creatures are hostile to hornet ye

[ancient dock]

They were hostile before void intake though

[eager ermine]

i think only the shades r cool wit her

plain void still hostile to pretty much anyone i think

[narrow sky]

The void tentacles stop being aggressive when you get the void heart

[wary plover]

Wait trobbio was never infected by the void??? What was his second boss fight then? What was he tormented by?

[narrow sky]

I think he was just sad that the void was there

[wary plover]

He was tormented by his inability to save the world despite his genius? Is that it

[narrow sky]

Or maybe that his first performance didn't work

Ye

[zinc pivot]

Nah, maybe they commanded the void to retreat from pharloom at most

[cold axle]

his codex entry is hornet basically going "he's in despair at the thought of the kingdom's death, and is choosing to cope in the only way he knows"

[zinc pivot]

Yeah it could be read as such lol

[wary plover]

Bro wasn't even affected by the void and he's acting like he's the most "lost" one out there

[narrow sky]

Also what is trobbio

[wary plover]

Apparently a study in suffering beautifully

[eager ermine]

the goat

[zinc pivot]

A thing i haven’t seen much discussion is the concept of crest in silksong and how hornet has the ability to bind others crest into her body

[wary plover]

It would be funny if she just learnt the knights attacks

[wintry verge]

sumarize ss lore in 10 words or less

[narrow sky]

I think Eva says something about that

[scenic stirrup]

Also learning abt hornets weapon through upgrades was cool as fuck

Hive steel ✍️

[narrow sky]

True

[zinc pivot]

I wonder if its comparable to a pure nail

And another question is, did the nailsmith essentially remake the knights nail?

[narrow sky]

Depends on how strong pale oil is

[whole holly]

hey guys i just visited memorium and got super sad about verdania

[scenic stirrup]

The needle the bees use looks different tho

[zinc pivot]

The beesmith readjust the needle to fit hornets style

[narrow sky]

That's a tooth pick

[scenic stirrup]

Yea i feel like its a custom weapon

It looks a bit nail ish like what the knight uses

[zinc pivot]

The imprint on their soul she said
So hornet can simply replicate the shape of soul through crests

Kinda like wearing an identity of others

[narrow sky]

The weavers probably commissioned it for hornet

[scenic stirrup]

U think hornet is her actual real name

Or just a nickname given to her by the bee ppl

[zinc pivot]

Herrah probably didn’t name her with how she never referred to Hornet by name

Unless Hornets birth is assisted by the Hive and she agreed to let them name her as gratitude

[viscid ridge]

Ok so if ive been looking through some assets and stuff, and it seems like future boss rush dlc will || also involve the godseekers again ||

[zinc pivot]

Seeing how weaver birth is basically human birth level of suffering

[scenic stirrup]

Noooo if hornet becomes a god

[zinc pivot]

Silksong asset?

[scenic stirrup]

💀 i just want her to enjoy life

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, ||a few gold themed menu items, same as with godseeker mode in HK||

[zinc pivot]

Can you send me in dm?

[fossil bobcat]

What exactly are the fire bugs in the wisp thicket?

[flint relic]

im.... compiling all the lore in a document!!!

[woven belfry]

Stingers

[spring escarp]

Mor elike Toothpick

[twin ocean]

Guys how much time passed after hornet gets knocked out after putting snare setter.

[spring escarp]

Toothpick knight implies humans exist in bugworld

[spring escarp]

I don't think it changes much, probably just a couple hours.

Enough for shit to go down.

[woven belfry]

Couple hours max

[twin ocean]

Yeah but sherma had time to become a part of a choir follower or whatever

[spring escarp]

Only because the snail gave him his clothes and fucked off.

The snail probably saw this happened immediatly and fucked off.

Also I think his expectation the victim would just accept death kinda unrealistic even with the daughter involved?

[twin ocean]

also why do bell eater appear now? did the void strands give him enough power to appear in act 3 right after things become bad

[honest spade]

"destined to forget"

[whole holly]

yup, just like real verdania, but what caused failure in memorium

[honest spade]

i mean makes sense since ||godseeker were never from hallownest in the first place, remember they were only there to seek the gods. Makes sense for them to come to Pharloom as well||

-# forgot to spoiler

[zinc pivot]

Elegy of the Deep is a memory song though, not a dreamscape entry

[zinc pivot]

The rumbling of the fallout woke it up

Like poking into a lions den

[honest spade]

i am not sure either lol. But I get the feeling that it wasn't a failure but more of a deliberate action by the Citadel, since yknow, they basically are the reason Verdania got erased in the first place

[zinc pivot]

We see a few verdanian inside the remains of verdania memorium

I guess they rebelled and got promptly shut down

[twin ocean]

and how isnt the bell beast eaten, did he manage to flea? ALSOOO why would he attack us, is it a scent thing or something?

[zinc pivot]

You don’t question an ancient predator why it gets angry

All it knows is that it heard someone disturbing the bells and promptly answered the sentiment

[twin ocean]

yeah man but we have like no nutritional value we're a spider and a pale being

a weaver as some would call it

[zinc pivot]

Pale being is literally the nutritious part

[twin ocean]

how?

[honest anvil]

huntress says we look tasty if not for the fact that we'd kill her

hornet probably has really dense muscle mass or something

[spring escarp]

https://x.com/Dexerto/status/1970669536782262604?t=jaimk5p4A80P6_zq0xU-Jg&s=19

Dexerto (@Dexerto)

YouTuber HandowShandowed beat a boss from Hollow Knight and sequel Silksong at the same time using one controller

X · Sep 24, 2025, 2:00 AM

How

[zinc pivot]

She threw a giant ass needle to 30 yards

[spring escarp]

So early. too

[twin ocean]

yeah but its probably natural

[spring escarp]

bugscle

[twin ocean]

look at this physique gng

your telling me thats normall

[spring escarp]

Gang insects regularly can loft 30 times they weight

[twin ocean]

to throw a needle 30 yards

YEAH BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN SHE HAS MORE MUSCLE MASS

[spring escarp]

Probably why pharloom and and hallownest are so vertical

[twin ocean]

THATS LIKE SAYING A ANT IS HEAVY BECAUSE SHE CAN LIFT

[honest anvil]

she's half-god

[zinc pivot]

Dense muscle mass

[spring escarp]

Maybe it is 30 milimiters

[honest anvil]

"Your meat... much ssssustanence it could grant... but too hard to pry... Your long, false claw would ssslash back ssswift"
like we have it straight from the huntress' mouth, hornet is tasty

[twin ocean]

how does she move her head with that neck btw

[zinc pivot]

Idk, why does any bugs speed of descent stay the same in game despite the gravitational acceleration?

[twin ocean]

also does the mist even exist physically or is it just a place where souls go or sum

because we saw in clover dancers that hornet can get damaged by fake silhouettes

does that mean the mist was fake

[zinc pivot]

Yes, mist was an elaborate illusion

Cast by phantom using the exhaust organ and silk dregs from citadel

[twin ocean]

and how does that work, what is the exhaust organ linked to then

[zinc pivot]

As we all know songs in silksong are the magic

So phantom played one

[honest anvil]

you can go back through that area after clearing the mist and see what it actually looks like and it's got bits and pieces of what we saw through the mist

[honest spade]

wait, magic songs? does that mean Hornet is GASP a Disney Princess?!

:O

[zinc pivot]

I only noticed the entrance

[narrow sky]

impossible, she doesn't even sing

[honest spade]

sheesh, playing music is enough lol
Hornet = Disney Princess 100%

she even got a magical pet cat bell beast

[spring escarp]

yoy physically acezs the hebfew sheol in game for a while

[narrow sky]

that's a fair point

is elder hu from the same tribe as shakra?

[twin ocean]

so how does bell eater want to eat us but not bell beast

[honest anvil]

it seems very likely but we don't have confirmation

bell eater absolutely wants to eat bell beast she just ran away or something

[zinc pivot]

Bell Beast was probably checking on her babies

And if anything she hid them well

[zinc pivot]

Its a question that has commonly popped up

[honest anvil]

bell eater would've likely beat bell beast in a 1v1 but the 2v1 made it too easy for her

[narrow sky]

shakra and elder hu have similar attacks aswell

[twin ocean]

how did the beastlings survive without their mother btw assuming she was trapped in that silk for a long time

[ebon silo]

Do you guys think the mantis tribe could win against the ant army

Like prime skarrsinger karmelita vs the mantis leaders and their army

[zinc pivot]

We are not powerscaling mantis vs ant now lol

[narrow sky]

i think she births them after the void shows up

[twin ocean]

ah yes so thats why shes so fat

[zinc pivot]

Though i think ant has the edge because they are more proficient in combat, perfect air control and heavy units

[honest anvil]

i mean they look like they're super competent babies. whatever bell beast is, her species is built like tanks. they can probably survive on their own just fine and just prefer living in a family

[zinc pivot]

Beastlings have hides so tough we can only bounce them around

Silly cute balls

[honest anvil]

i'm so sad you can't bounce them through room transitions. 0/10 game i want to bring my beastling beach ball with me all the way up to the nameless town

[twin ocean]

why doesnt bell beast get angry when he like keep bullying her babys

she just purrs gangaling

[honest spade]

bro that sounds like torture
. . .
i wanna do it too

[honest anvil]

because we're just playing with them, they like a bit of roughhousing

[keen compass]

I think the implication is that she had them after act 3 triggers

[twin ocean]

and why does she get angry when we hit her if its "playing"

[keen compass]

She never gets angry

[honest anvil]

... does she get angry? i'm pretty sure she likes it

[narrow sky]

it's just play fighting

[honest anvil]

she does happy feet stompies if you hit her

[ebon silo]

Yeah but mantises leader could take on the deepest monsters

[keen compass]

Its canonical nothing Hornet does to Bellbeast actually does any meaningful damage

[twin ocean]

it sounds like angry ARRE arre

[ebon silo]

Attacking it was actually just petting it to calm down

[honest anvil]

she's just a big girl any noise she makes sounds threatening

[keen compass]

It isn't, TC confirmed that

[keen compass]

Pretty much

[ebon silo]

because TC said hitting it was the equivalent of petting from a tweet so yeah

[mint furnace]

You guys think Eirya is more of a dog or a cat

I see equal arguments for both

[keen compass]

When act 3 triggers, it seems Bellbeast also has her babies

[honest anvil]

definitely a dog, too much energy for a cat

[narrow sky]

horse

[keen compass]

The real question is- Does this mean the Bellbeast produces asexually? Or is there another?

[mint furnace]

They never said “last bell beast”

[honest anvil]

i haven't actually seen this tweet where is it

[wary plover]

But if we did I think the answer is pretty obvious. Ants are more powerful by a mile

[ebon silo]

Or was it pregnant before his mate died

[narrow sky]

actually more like a bear

[ebon silo]

And it was just waiting for like 8 momths

[modest coyote]

its petting

[keen compass]

This is true. Wonder where the others are

[mint furnace]

Prime ants beat prime mantises but I think in currently timeline they would lose

[keen compass]

Bellbeast is a she

[modest coyote]

in the bell eater's belly...

[ebon silo]

Probably too afraid to come out

[ebon silo]

Yeah what I said

[mint furnace]

The ants in their prime controlled presumably the entirety of the surrounding area

[ebon silo]

oh his

holy default system

[keen compass]

The belleater is only active in act 3 tho cuz of the shake up no?

[modest coyote]

it always existed

[wary plover]

I think the problem with the mantises is that they're too proud, where as the ants are more social

[modest coyote]

kinda like real life...

[ebon silo]

But it does exist until the bell beast ate it

[mint furnace]

It’d also just a numbers game

[honest anvil]

i assume bell eater was asleep dragon-style or something. ancient horror of the depths set free by the apocalypse

[mint furnace]

They got like tens of thousands minimum when karmelita was around

[keen compass]

Ofc but was it active the whole time? I dont think it was

[modest coyote]

i mean that the specie already existed

[mint furnace]

Belleater is Smaug

[modest coyote]

its not a void being, its the bell beast natural preditor

[narrow sky]

hibernation

[keen compass]

Btw can we talk bout the implication of that?

[modest coyote]

ok

[ebon silo]

Current timeline surely ants will lose they don't have a leader either in this timeline we took the karmelitas heart or that is she old and can't even fight not to mention karmelitas bodyguards also died those brutes too are too slow and can't exactly defend against air other than jumping really high enough

[wary plover]

Why did they fade, and can we get any hive or colony with a still present regnant monarch

[modest coyote]

cause their queen died

just like in real life when an ant queen dies it fucks up the colony

[mint furnace]

I’d say they’re cooked in current, it’s just a bunch of scattered guys

[keen compass]

Hornet is a literal godslayer with a special blade and peak power to rival GMS even- And she can't come close to harming Bellbeast. The Belleater tho HUNTS these things

[honest anvil]

specifically eira gives me a lot of bernese mountain dog vibes. very large very intelligent dog

[modest coyote]

we dont wanna hurt bell beast ffs

[mint furnace]

I’m pretty sure Hornet could kill a bell beast if she wanted

[keen compass]

Would that make the Belleater the most powerful non higher being creature so far?

[ebon silo]

If it was prime vs prime the ant army wins because of sheer numbers and a much tougher boss well it could be equal ground for both of the bosses but yeah

[mint furnace]

She just… doesn’t, because Hornet is lawful good and instead pets the bell beast

[wary plover]

Hornet is lawful good?

[keen compass]

I mean none of her hits even dent it when fighting and Hornet has no idea its frenly when she firsts comes across it

[honest anvil]

to be fair, there's a lot of animals with very specific mutations - it could just be that the belleater has specifically developed claws or mandibles that are designed to pierce the bell beast's iron-hard shell

[mint furnace]

I don’t get how people don’t see this when playing but Hornet just does things to help people

[wary plover]

Bro hornet is chaotic af, and she's morally grey

[keen compass]

Also Hornet is not Lawful Good lol

[narrow sky]

macebug is stronger

[zinc pivot]

Lawful Neutral at most

[wary plover]

I think hornet is maybe chaotic evil?

[mint furnace]

She literally goes around helping out random people without asking for anything in return until after

[honest anvil]

damn y'all just saying shit

[zinc pivot]

Shes gray but still has her own code

[wary plover]

Sort of like lace

[mint furnace]

What???

Do yall know the alignment chart

[wary plover]

She was one of the primary recurring antagonists of the first game iirc

[mint furnace]

She follows the rules of basic humanity (buganity?) and isn’t an asshole

[keen compass]

She's canonically racist, would turn half the bugs in pharloom into weapons if she could, and turn anything fluffy into a personal slave. While she does have honor and a good heart, she is deeply flawed and constantly must resist her innate desire to dominate and rule. Which is naturally apart of her personality.

[mint furnace]

Prime rage bait

[ebon silo]

Chaotic evil??? Holy if she was chaotic evil pharloom would've been better off GMS being the one destroying the kingdom

[keen compass]

Hornet is more like Chaotic Good

She is mostly self serving as well

[zinc pivot]

She isn’t exactly racist, she just hates rude and nasty folks

[honest spade]

i meant bouncing the beastlings ALL THE WAY TO THE SURFACE!
you do know how hard that platforming section is right? 😭

[mint furnace]

That’s what I’m saying, despite that she still just helps people

[zinc pivot]

And wardenflies aren’t exactly as civil as you think

[mint furnace]

Yeah being racist towards the flies is a low bar

[keen compass]

She thinks the flies as a specifc should not even exist lol

[wary plover]

Well the players actions make hornet good, but if the player chooses not to donate or help people doesn't that make her not good?

[mint furnace]

Well, they were specifically bred to be guards so yeah I would also say that’s wrong

[keen compass]

Act 3 is pretty clearly the canonical path of the game. So helping people is canonical

[mint furnace]

TE Hornet requires you to do every quest so

[narrow sky]

it's like white palace

[wary plover]

Okay well that changed things

[honest anvil]

hornet also doesn't do anything bad and expresses purely positive to neutral objectives even if you do any% route stuff
at worst she's neutral

[honest spade]

I think they shouldnt exist either 😭 i hate them with passion. their attack patterns and the weird fly mother makes me wanna kms

[modest coyote]

womp womp

[mint furnace]

That’s more so her personality to me

[honest spade]

yuh

[zinc pivot]

Yeah hornet is lawful neutral

[wary plover]

I'd put her on lawful good, becsude she feels principled when it comes down to it

[mint furnace]

She’s just very closed

[keen compass]

Yea but she is not lawful good lol She is Chaotic Good on avg. and Neutral at worst

[mint furnace]

But, she follows the rules when they exist, and helps people

[keen compass]

stare

[mint furnace]

You don’t have to be white knight paladin to be good

[honest anvil]

hornet has a very strict code of conduct for herself. she doesn't care about a nation's laws but she does care about her own

[wary plover]

She's good because she believes in the service of others over herself

[honest anvil]

that's lawful stuff

[keen compass]

Hornet adamantly breaks rules if they do not suit her or her goals constantly

[mint furnace]

When

And if you mean the citadel that clearly is not a good establishment

[keen compass]

gestures at Hollow Knight and Silksong

[keen compass]

It still has rules lol

[mint furnace]

I just asked for an example

[mint furnace]

:/

I hope you see the flaws in that

[keen compass]

Ok so first off- She guts any 'unworthy' vessel she sees in HK1 TwT

[mint furnace]

Yuh

[wary plover]

Okay that's fair.

[mint furnace]

Otherwise they’d fuck up hallownest more

[keen compass]

Breaking a nation's laws just cuz you disagree with them is still breaking the law lmfao

[wary plover]

Did she do it because she's chaotic or lawful

[mint furnace]

Not even her fault, her father caused it then went and died

[honest anvil]

lawful does not mean you just follow any rule that is set in front of you, it means you have a strict moral code you adhere to. usually this maps to a set of laws, but it doesn't actually have to

[zinc pivot]

Unworthy is a stretch
She tested them in combat and most of them has flaws

[mint furnace]

And, to my knowledge, she follows it pretty strictly

And then being good is proven just by doing quests without really asking for anything in return

[wary plover]

Also an unhollow vessel that's not strong enough to contain the radiance feels like it's just going to make things worse

[mint furnace]

She just usually gets stuff because people are nice

[keen compass]

Her moral code isn't too strict, it bends as necessary at times. Though it depends I suppose on how much she wants to be weaver or pale being during the day

[zinc pivot]

As far as i can tell she is jaded from all the failed vessels, so she’s harsh to ghost

[mint furnace]

Killing the vessels is the lesser evil

[honest anvil]

most of the time when her moral code bends it's because she literally can't control it. like weaver queen isn't exactly her preference but it is a base instinct for pale beings that she struggles to control

[mint furnace]

Atleast currently to her, the radiance ain’t causing problems for anyone outside hallownest, but a weak vessel could change that

[wary plover]

Also as far as hornet knows a bunch of void infused higher being offspring is being leaked off from the abyss? That seems like dangerous even if she didn't know the lore of it all

[honest anvil]

at most you could argue neutral good imo

[mint furnace]

Speaking of endings, she also is really trusting, which is funny to think about

[keen compass]

Its why I'd place her as chaotic or neutral, not lawful cuz regardless that is still hornet

[narrow sky]

she's like batman

[mint furnace]

2/4 of the endings are her trusting someone who proceeded to try and kill her

Well, shamans didn’t really mean to but they certainly didn’t care about the cross fire

[wary plover]

Now I'm thinking about her sitting beside her mothers body and I'm sad now

[keen compass]

Ehhh less trusting more just so old that she knows things like that

[mint furnace]

She isn’t old though

[wary plover]

Hornet is not just trusting, she believes in the goodness of people

[zinc pivot]

Name any instances where her moral bends

[honest anvil]

oh hornet is ancient she's probably centuries old

[keen compass]

Hornet would have been fine, GMS was just a sore loser

[mint furnace]

That’s a fairly major point of the game, she’s a young immortal

[honest anvil]

young compared to some but still ancient

[mint furnace]

No, it’s laces fault

[keen compass]

She is still incredibly old and wise to a degree that she sees through Lace easily

[narrow sky]

she's very old

[wary plover]

Why do people say hornet is old, "old one" is a reference to the old ones being the weavers. Her voice is slightly more mature but she's not old old

[mint furnace]

I still think the shamans plan worked perfectly lace just ruined it

[keen compass]

Lace didn't ruin it what lol

[honest anvil]

hornet has literally had mates, plural, who she has outlived due to old age

[mint furnace]

It’s like if you were an immortal born in the 1900s

[narrow sky]

she out lived all of her partners

[honest anvil]

compared to a bug she's ancient. she dates back to before the dreamers, and the dreamers are like quite old history in hollow knight

[mint furnace]

Yeah?

[keen compass]

Yea she is old lol Like the vessels being made old and possibly older

[mint furnace]

If lace didn’t jump in, the shamans plan would have killed GMS

And probably Hornet, but hey, shamans are shamans

[honest anvil]

the shaman's plan did kill GMS it was just pretty slow about it because GMS was trying pretty hard

[mint furnace]

She was fighting against it because of lace

[keen compass]

The plan was that GMS gets trapped and pulled into the abyss. However she is a sore loser and before Hornet can get away- GMS grabs her and Lace saves her. Then GMS being a mom does everything to save lace and the death throws of a literal god threaten to collapse pharloom

[wary plover]

Hornet is the offspring of a higher being and a weaver which now that I think about it, makes her a "protagonist born with special bloodlines" but I guess she suffered so much it doesn't count

[mint furnace]

Exactly

[keen compass]

The shamans had no intent or plan to kill Hornet

[honest anvil]

yeah no i'm not disagreeing lol i'm just pointing out that they did succeed in their plan

[keen compass]

GMS is just a sore fuckin loser lol

[mint furnace]

Yes, but they didn’t care if it happened

[keen compass]

That's debatable

[wary plover]

No one even liked gms, except for lace for some reason who is just craving for her attention

[keen compass]

Its less that they didn't care more uh- what do they do if Hornet gets dragged down? lol

[mint furnace]

Look, let me put it this way

If I was having someone set a void bomb I would go say to them “HEY, IM HAVING YOU PUSH THEM INTO A GIANT PIPE BOMB”

[zinc pivot]

She was literally made to be like that thats why

[keen compass]

Yesn't. GMS was a surprisingly complex character. A mother who'd burn the world to save her child

[wary plover]

Yes, lace said "knocking you away was my rebellion" she didn't want gms to have hornets power

[mint furnace]

From the shamans perspective I fully understand why they did it

[keen compass]

They did tell Hornet the plan was to trap GMS, hence why she was about to get clear- Its just you know, GMS is a sore loser. They didn't tell her the DETAILS of the trap

But they did in fact warn her to get clear lol

[wary plover]

Child? Lace was more like a pet. A child should be allowed to rebel, to make their own choices. Lace is just a love object

[mint furnace]

Hornets potential death compared to all of pharloom ain’t bad, but then well, lace, GMS tries to defend her, bo womp

[normal plank]

insane theory, the hornet is a bug and all the characters are bugs

[mint furnace]

Yes, that is what I am saying

[keen compass]

Incorrect

[mint furnace]

I don’t get what you mean by this whole sore loser thing

She didn’t care about that, she cared about lace

[faint kite]

Is elder hu from the same tribe as shakra?

[mint furnace]

Presumably

[keen compass]

Lace only ended up in the trap cuz GMS was a sore loser lol

[mint furnace]

Yeah, but there’s no way Hornet would go along with the plan if she knew the payload

[normal plank]

noo?

[keen compass]

If GMS didn't try to last second drag Hornet down with her, Lace doesn't get trapped and GMS just dies

[mint furnace]

That’s… called fighting

[normal plank]

it was an act of rebellion against her mother?

[wary plover]

Thats not what the game said...

[mint furnace]

That accidentally almost destroyed the kingdom

[normal plank]

nooo?

[keen compass]

I call it sore losing, given GMS was going to go down anyways, tryin to drag Hornet with her was sore loser shit lol

[zinc pivot]

What, you expect someone who got defeated by her traitorous daughters kid to go down honorably

[normal plank]

gms only spun the cocoon to protect lace from the void?

[mint furnace]

You wouldn’t?

What you gonna honorably sit there and die?

[normal plank]

how was she supposed to know gms actually loved her 😭

[mint furnace]

If someone I don’t like is killing me I’m pulling them down

[narrow sky]

maybe gms was trying to get power from hornet somehow?

[wary plover]

Gms is a sore loser for not wanting to die.

[mint furnace]

She just shouldn’t have interfered

Granted, Hornet would have probably died

[zinc pivot]

Thats the thing with pale being, they are too distant and cold

[mint furnace]

But pharloom would be fine

[zinc pivot]

It’s in their nature

[mint furnace]

Loam would still be alive 💔

[wary plover]

This was confirmed in laces conversation with hornet. Lace explicitly said she didn't want gms to have hornets silk

[keen compass]

Ok so plot twist- Lace didn't kno GMS actually cared lol

[normal plank]

no, disproven by all 3 pale beings

[manic pewter]

what defines a pale being btw

[keen compass]

Irony at its finest

[mint furnace]

Im not saying it was a bad plot im just saying in terms of what caused act 3, it’s lace

[keen compass]

Raising up bugs, and being pale

[normal plank]

higher being thats white

also has power above normal higher beings

[zinc pivot]

All three of them are still cold and distant and only realize their parental love after their own child has been harmed

[narrow sky]

the whole reason that hk happends is because the pale king couldn't not spend time with his child

[vague whale]

We don't actually know, so each instance must be specifically confirmed

[normal plank]

no, did u do path of pain?

[manic pewter]

and gms's "power above normal higher beings" is being able to control the bugs with silk?

[keen compass]

I never said you said it was a bad plot. You really gotta get better at wording your thoughts. Cuz Lace's PoV was that GMS didn't care for her. Which if true, both just perish to the void.

[mint furnace]

Have you played hollow knight

Just look at the game, pale king is distant and cold??

[keen compass]

She is the creator of weavers and thus- Silk

[mint furnace]

He constructs a kingdoms and gives bugs a mind

[normal plank]

yes that was the lace's intention. die with her mother

[mint furnace]

He then fights non stop to save it

[zinc pivot]

Out of desire for worship and eternal kingdom

[keen compass]

That's not by love or heart, its by nature of being a pale being

[mint furnace]

To the point of his dying words being “no cost too great”

[normal plank]

she could not have prediced that her mother still loved her, and thus, spun the cocoon

[mint furnace]

And that doesn’t change it

[keen compass]

Because its in his nature to rule and dominate, losing that which he built would suck

[wary plover]

The best clue we have for what higher beings are are the stone tablets in kings pass. "Higher beings these words are for you alone"

[mint furnace]

If someone is a leader due to their nature of being a god, I wouldn’t call them cold for helping their people

[normal plank]

taken with grain of salt, white lady doesnt doo much (i think?)

[keen compass]

It changes alot actually. Pale King was cold and distant, he did not care for the subjects out of love. Purely obligation and nature. The Pale King did however care for 1 being, and that was the Hollow Knight

[zinc pivot]

To be honest divine beings in fiction are always described as otherworldly
Their comprehension of emotions and compassion isn’t the same as your average person

[mint furnace]

I’m gonna have to agree to disagree with that

[normal plank]

well as far as we know

[zinc pivot]

And pale beings reflect just that

[normal plank]

i take that back

[manic pewter]

i mean white lady seems to be pretty loving

[keen compass]

The White Lady's manifestation of this is wanting to procreate and have a ton of a kids. Hence why she binds herself so she doesn't go off and do everyone

[normal plank]

ye only HK

[normal plank]

yea thats true

[zinc pivot]

After, the HK plan failed

[normal plank]

didnt take it form that perspective

[zinc pivot]

We don’t see her get bound pre-Infection

[wary plover]

The white lady gave the important item in both games

[keen compass]

Its arguable this was present even before that, its just her nature, she says that. Hence why she binds herself. To stop herself

[normal plank]

she bound herself after the HK was made

[keen compass]

Yes, cuz she was making kids with the pale king

This doesn't disprove what I said lol

[normal plank]

what was ur OG statement?

sorry if im intruding on the debate xD

[wary plover]

Are you calling the white lady a sl*t

[keen compass]

That the manifestation of her wanting to dominate and rule is through a bunch of kids

[normal plank]

well yea i agree lmao

[keen compass]

She basically calls herself that lol

[normal plank]

yes, and rightfully so 😭

[keen compass]

Its why she binds herself xD

[narrow sky]

both the pale king and white lady seem to reget the whole vessel thing

[keen compass]

If she wasn't bound, she'd have even more kids

[normal plank]

well yea cause it failed

[mint furnace]

It was a very last ditch effort

That I’d imagine they knew wouldn’t work

[normal plank]

and also cause.. idk they killed likeee thousands of kids??

[keen compass]

They regret it because they killed a fuckton of their own kids

[knotty dome]

Just a thought but how did sherma get past the judges and the last judge?

[mint furnace]

He’s too pure

[keen compass]

They don't regret having kids, they regret KILLING their kids

[wary plover]

We don't know anything about the pale king's thoughts. But I will say that the pale king is a very well written character.

[mint furnace]

He literally has canonical plot armor due to his devotion

[normal plank]

???????????????

[narrow sky]

that's what i'm saying

[keen compass]

Sherma is sinless, thus he passed and was allowed through. Nothin in the citadel actually attacks sherma if you notice

[normal plank]

no cost too great???

[mint furnace]

Tbf I’d also imagine they regret injecting their shells with void

[knotty dome]

So judges actually leave you alone if you’re sinless damn

[normal plank]

🗣️ sherma meat riding

[mint furnace]

That probably wasn’t for the best

[narrow sky]

that's crazy

[knotty dome]

The humble whiteward

[wary plover]

This yes, but that wasn't what I was referring to. I meant his personal feelings and regrets

[mint furnace]

Yeah, he’s just too much of a silly little guy to be killed by the citadel

LJ just lets him through

[keen compass]

They didn't inject their shells with void, they yeeted the egg into the void and the kids were killed effectively at birth then made into what we see

[mint furnace]

Yes that is what I mean

I just choose to use more colorful vocabulary

[terse stump]

Anyone still confused about how pharmoom and mommy silk works?

[narrow sky]

we only really have the tablets, the void cutscene, dream nail dialog and path of pain cutscene

[mint furnace]

Its complicated

[terse stump]

Who created the whole castle?

[wary plover]

My head cannon is that he went back around through road, bile, ducts memorium that's how he ended up in the first shrine

[mint furnace]

Citadel was ruled by three different groups at different points

[keen compass]

Nothin atks him in there, he just gets lost and trapped. Its only when Hornet shows up that things start swingin specifically at her not Sherma. We've seen other instances of rescuing characters under atk/being chased, Sherma however doesn't go through that and is rather just lost and you know- In a horrow area and is scared

[mint furnace]

We presume the conductors made the citadel

[honest anvil]

the weavers designed it

[wary plover]

Do we know exactly?

[keen compass]

The Citadel is a giant seal for GMS made by the weavers through a false religion based around music to keep her bound and asleep

[narrow sky]

wouldn't it be the architects?

[mint furnace]

No, I but presume it was fully fleshed out by the conductors

[knotty dome]

That’s the sinners way tho I heavily doubt he would go through that way

[mint furnace]

That entire group yeah

I just say conductors because they were the leaders apparently

[wary plover]

Yes but it would be funny. So even though it might not be canonical it's my headcannon

[honest anvil]

he can get to songclave even if you haven't done last judge and the door is blocked so he has to get through somehow

[normal plank]

weaver structures are in the abyss too 🤨

[narrow sky]

you can find him by the bellway close to the grand gate

[mint furnace]

Indeed

[wary plover]

Imagine sherma getting picked up by one of those flower things

[normal plank]

i doubt they dabled in it tho

[knotty dome]

But they didn’t do any physical labour I assume since they’re more like generals in a way in pharloom esp how they described their words as citadel shaking

[mint furnace]

Weavers were in pharloom for a while before they bound GMS and skedaddled

[wary plover]

I think the actual answer is that he just came in after we defeated last judge

[honest anvil]

the only reason to go that close to the void is to dabble in it, no chance they didn't at least play with it

[zinc pivot]

They dived down there, thats why the diving bell exist in Deep Docks
Most likely planning to use void to remove GMS

[keen compass]

To explain further-
The Weavers seal GMS in the Cradle. The Weavers create religion. The religion formed is based around silk and music. This religion keeps GMS asleep. The religion and citadel start dying. GMS starts to awaken and the hauntings begin. Things start to further go to shit. Weavers not long after GMS was sealed fled the kingdom. Presumably to Hallownest and other places.

[normal plank]

only sign of the anciet civilisation is the arcane eggs too

[honest anvil]

you can enter through the exhaust organ and get into act 3 without ever fighting last judge

[knotty dome]

How’d he get past the elevator then if we came in first

[normal plank]

was the diving bell specifically made to go the abyss????

[crisp musk]

Yes, likely

[mint furnace]

Only thing I’d add to that is I think the best evidence we have for why they sealed GMS is because of first sinner, but I also think we just don’t know

[keen compass]

Presumably yes

[wary plover]

How did he get past the grand gate regardless of us?

[mint furnace]

He’s pure

[normal plank]

hmm then yea ig maybe they were planning to use void to get rid of GMS

[wary plover]

Im not talking about the last judge, I meant how did he go from the grand gate to the choral chambers

[zinc pivot]

The diving bell entry to the abyss signifies construction of a pathway to abyss

[mint furnace]

Elevator

[crisp musk]

Npcs have the mystical power of going 3d, paths that we cant take

[narrow sky]

he just noclipped through

[wary plover]

The elevator goes down to underworks

[keen compass]

She was sealed for being a violent higher being who wanted to consume silk to keep her daughter Lace alive after presumably seeing that her other daughter was dying. Phantom is presumably too far gone to be saved so she focuses her efforts on Lace. Consuming anything to prolong her life.

[mint furnace]

Well it breaks yeah, but it works for Sherma

[keen compass]

This anything being other weavers.

[neat orchid]

background traveling (like cornifer lol)

[mint furnace]

Also known as diverging timelines

[knotty dome]

Well it wouldn’t rlly make sense for him to come after we get through as he has no way through the elevator and according to people judges actually deem some bugs devout enough to pass

[mint furnace]

Oh yeah omnipotent cornifer theory

[honest anvil]

maybe he crawled through a ventilation shaft we haven't seen because hornet refuses to debase herself and crawl like that unless it is absolutely necessary

[wary plover]

If you look at the shaft it was always meant to go down

[mint furnace]

Uh… nuh uh

[honest anvil]

elevators can typically go both up and down

[narrow sky]

does that mean lace will die after gms dies?

[vague whale]

yup

[wary plover]

Bro the shaft of the elevator goes from the grand gate to the underworks and no where else

[mint furnace]

Yeah, and I believe the catalyst would be first sinners incarceration

[keen compass]

Silksong has an overarching theme of motherhood and how far a mother will go for their child. GMS was sealed because she went so far to save Lace. We know pale beings struggle to express emotion, but they can

[honest anvil]

not with a source of silk
and we happen to know a girl who can produce infinite silk

[mint furnace]

But idk, it could be way after

[keen compass]

Hornet can actually most likely sustain her

[mint furnace]

I always thought the joke was it tries to goes up then falls down

[normal plank]

i rmb something abt silkspun beings decaying over time and that meant panthom was the older sibling, so yea id assume they decay without silk lol

[mint furnace]

She’s in a codependent relationship with hornet

Otherwise yeah she’d die eventually

[keen compass]

Hornet is a unique weaver. Like VERY unique. Given she comes from the Pale King and a weaver.

[wary plover]

If he passes, he would still arrive at the grand gate. Which comes back to my question, how did he get past it

[narrow sky]

so the pilgrims are ment to go through the underworks to get to the citadel?

[neat orchid]

background travelling of course!!! (i have no idea)

[mint furnace]

Hornet has more unique DNA than probably any bug

[wary plover]

It's funny because it broke and fell us down but I don't think it ever goes up.

[vague whale]

No, they're meant to become Underworkers

[mint furnace]

Parkour to the secret entrance

[keen compass]

It does go up, it just broke on us due to disrepair

[normal plank]

do we think we are getting another 4 DLCs?

[vague whale]

The pilgrimage is a lie mates

[narrow sky]

but you can find pilgrims in the citadel

[vague whale]

yep

[mint furnace]

Atleast 2, one for steel guys (required) and probably a godhome esc one

[keen compass]

Yes and No
We kno there are many routes to and from the citadel that even Hornet isn't privvy to. Just like the kingdom actually has multiple ways to leave it.

[mint furnace]

It’s guaranteed we get atleast the first 1 because the steel guy is a backer

[knotty dome]

I mean yeah I’m not sure how he would but it also wouldn’t make sense after we go since elevator broken.

[neat orchid]

i hope we get some sort of dlc where we get to see more of the coral forest (i will cope)

[crisp musk]

In 2037

[keen compass]

Our map isn't the end all be all of Pharloom's routes

[knotty dome]

Nuh uh steel dlc we hope

[normal plank]

yea thats fair enough. lifeblood update for HK was kinda buns imo. grimm troupe also came out of nowhere (tho it was very welcomed)

[heavy falcon]

I need an entire HK map worth of Verdania

[crisp musk]

Dlc is only accessible in steel soul

[normal plank]

the steel assassins

[mint furnace]

Nah, as we all know it’s only the map and cornifer canonically goes into the abyss to get shade dash

[knotty dome]

Why is the steel required?

[neat orchid]

i want atleast 4 dlcs in silksong so yes that too

[keen compass]

Remember, our maps are based on Shakra's own knowledge/mapping which isn't 100%

[wary plover]

Did the elevator look like it was in good enough condition to be rode more than once without breaking? Because it seemed like hornet was the first one to touch that elevator for a long time

[normal plank]

they are required cause of kickstarter backers

[neat orchid]

same

[mint furnace]

You remember that nose guy we got shown like 4 years ago

[knotty dome]

Probs not but it should add extra content for steel soul mode

[keen compass]

Presumably yes. It just broke cuz of disrepair

[crisp musk]

gasp
A second steelsoul exclusive boss?

[narrow sky]

except for the maps we get in the citadel

[neat orchid]

cool things being locked behind steelsoul would annoy me tbh

[mint furnace]

I was hoping the assassins would jump you in steel soul when you drop to 1 hp

[knotty dome]

Let’s just agree Sherma did Sherma stuff and got into the citadel

[keen compass]

Correct but even those aren't perfect cuz they obv hide stuff

[knotty dome]

Yes?

[wary plover]

He probably sang a magic song

[normal plank]

sherma meat rider

[mint furnace]

He’s a backer

[manic pewter]

the government is hiding the mask shards

[keen compass]

He's sinless and made it through routes we aren't privy to

[keen compass]

Not untrue lore wise...

[normal plank]

guys lets just call is wraps. sherma is a higher being

[keen compass]

Incorrect

[vague whale]

Sherma was Raptured into the Citadel upon reaching the Grand Gate

[wary plover]

Are you ready to go to bed

[keen compass]

Though I do think Nyleth is a higher being

[neat orchid]

?!?!

[narrow sky]

wait isn't the map from hornets perspective since she updates it?

[mint furnace]

New canon, Sherma went to underworks but instantly got carried up by the workers because he’s so pure

[keen compass]

Yes

[manic pewter]

nyleth is such an interesting case

[knotty dome]

Out of all the meat riders in silksong, mergwin, widow and almost every pilgrim you call me out.

[wary plover]

Do you think shutting people down with "incorrect" is an interesting drama inciting persona

[mint furnace]

Aw, pack it up everyone, fun isn’t allowed in SS lore

[narrow sky]

last judge was just like "shit this guy's too pure, send him to the citadel"

[normal plank]

screw it. hk3 will have sherma as MC

[mint furnace]

That’s seriously what I imagine happened

[keen compass]

Its not shutting down, best for you to not get easily offended

[mint furnace]

“Oh shit I didn’t know you were chill like that take the express route”

[manic pewter]

wait are we sure that sherma went to the citadel before us?

[keen compass]

Given how he works- Yea that's the implication

[neat orchid]

this is my new headcanon

[knotty dome]

Why is tc holding him back then. It’s been 4 years why not just add him

[normal plank]

guys sherma is just higher being its not that deep 😭

[keen compass]

Given that you can find him in the bath before first shrine- Honestly probably lol

[narrow sky]

we play music for people instead of fighting them

[wary plover]

Is the last judge even alive or just reanimated by the haunting?

[vague whale]

We know Sherma went after lol

[normal plank]

turn the other cheek ahh

[keen compass]

Alive most likely

[vague whale]

Last Judge is alive when you fight her.

[manic pewter]

if thats the case isnt it literally just that last judge was destroyed by us so he didnt need to worry abt it

[normal plank]

silksong's godhome has sherma as final boss 🗣️

[keen compass]

Depends, Sherma could most likely hav gone before us given he's sinless

[vague whale]

Yes, Sherma can just follow us in. However, if you take the other route, clearly Last Judge does deem Sherma bestest ever

[neat orchid]

werent there also other pilgrims waiting at the door before hornet came?

[normal plank]

sherma vs myla 🥲

[manic pewter]

but i mean does last judge only show up bc we do all the bells?

[keen compass]

Yea, but they were clearly unworthy

[neat orchid]

then those other pilgrims would have gone in too, no?

[knotty dome]

Sherma doesn’t die myla does so I think we know

[vague whale]

They died lol

[neat orchid]

so they just watched sherma go in the door infront of them

[narrow sky]

if we get a godhome dlc what bosses do we think will get upgrades (like sisters of battle)

[normal plank]

cogwork dancers

[vague whale]

Sherma goes in after us guys cmon

[keen compass]

presumably if u go the other route- Last judge still nukes those losers and sherma just walks on by

[neat orchid]

3 cogwork dancers

[knotty dome]

Trobbio would def be extra zesty just for the god master

[normal plank]

haters will hate

[knotty dome]

We already have an upgrade of em tho

[narrow sky]

he becomes yellow

[honest anvil]

clover dancers redux there are the cogworks and the clovers both at the same time

[normal plank]

clover dancers is abrely an upgrade cmon 😭

[keen compass]

Can easily be harder

[neat orchid]

thats…

[keen compass]

Very true

[normal plank]

no it would be the 2 cogworks and the prince that was alive

cause the 2 of them are his partner split

[manic pewter]

I bet you seth could be a post-memory loss thing

[keen compass]

Triple dancers would be sick

[knotty dome]

I DO NOT want to deal with his bullshit while my screen is piss yellow colour

[keen compass]

Like a mantis lords kinda fight

[normal plank]

praying for a big up on GMS

[neat orchid]

the arena has to be big

[narrow sky]

piss bomb

[normal plank]

she was kinda buns for a "final boss"

[knotty dome]

Oh shit Groal but he can use desolate dive or abyssal shriek would be a good upgrade

[scenic stirrup]

Apparently that big ass chunk of meat in fleatopia is a moorwing 💀

[keen compass]

I think she was really good despite being easy, and her godhome fight will def be amped up

[scenic stirrup]

Aint no way

[normal plank]

void upgrade wouldnt make sense in godhome?

[honest anvil]

i hope they combine savage beastfly and one of the other Random Guy bosses. savage beastfly x giant conchfly

[keen compass]

Correct

[neat orchid]

if i only have to fight groal and not the enemy arena before… yes

[scenic stirrup]

Who killed it

[keen compass]

Depending on how you get past greymoor-

[knotty dome]

Not void but the other two spells

[keen compass]

The fleas do. Then they use him for sustenance throughout the acts

[narrow sky]

big flea fight but with flea dodging elements

[normal plank]

double wingmoor would be so fun 🔥

[knotty dome]

No middle platforms this time only the sides

[scenic stirrup]

Like which npc specifically

[keen compass]

We don't know

[normal plank]

double savage beastfly 🤤

[neat orchid]

oh so its suffering yay

[keen compass]

Just that the fleas kill moorwing dependin on how you get past greymoor

[scenic stirrup]

Not the warrior i think cuz we meet her really far into bilewater

[neat orchid]

i feel like tat would make a good ascended/radiant arena

(looking at you, markoth)

[scenic stirrup]

Maybe its all the fleas u caught they obliterated moorwing

[knotty dome]

Don’t forget the gauntlet before and after the godhome groal fight

[keen compass]

I want an upgraded Fourth Chorus cuz giant robot fight

[narrow sky]

masochism

[normal plank]

fourth chorus upgrade will probs be an arena upgrade ngl

[honest anvil]

first chorus would go crazy

[vague whale]

FOUR CHORUSES

[normal plank]

and probably removal of the boulder falling on his head as the finisher

[neat orchid]

whyyyyy

[knotty dome]

The platforms don’t respawn this time

[vague whale]

AND IT'S ALL FOUR OF THEM

[normal plank]

perhaps some extra hands

[narrow sky]

they don't, they just steal your loot

[normal plank]

wait isnt there an extra 4th chorus

[neat orchid]

fourth chorus got an upgrade (now its fifth chorus!)

[normal plank]

like under neath someting

[vague whale]

Or Quartet Something for the name

[keen compass]

They do based on how you get through greymoor

[knotty dome]

They went in far with groal and his gauntlet they can’t go back

[vague whale]

Either way I want to fight all 4 Chorus automatons at the same time it'd be so based

[normal plank]

groal but he does 4 masks of damage and there are no platforms

[narrow sky]

i don't think they pick up moorwing if you skip the fight

[keen compass]

I just hope if any bilewater bosses get into godhome they remove the stupid hazard or adds

[scenic stirrup]

Buff savage beastfly 🧎

[keen compass]

They do

[scenic stirrup]

Make it do 4 damage

[narrow sky]

they had a debate about this earlier today

[knotty dome]

There’s only one bilewater boss. Groal so bad he made you hallucinate a 2nd boss fight

[keen compass]

Honestly yea. I think people overexagerrate his difficulty. I just saved silk skills and tools for ads and focused on pogo-ing on beast fly when i could

[normal plank]

savage beastfly but spawns in trobbios

[scenic stirrup]

Nah hes really bad 💀

With the base crest

[manic pewter]

trobbio but spawns in savage beastflies

[keen compass]

Alot of boss fights with ads that spawn are much easier if you just- Bring tools lol

[normal plank]

savage beastfly but spawns in sherma, so the entire battle is just multpiple shermas singing his song out of sync so u cant hear anythign

[severe thicket]

mooshka just turned emo💔

[knotty dome]

Honestly I just couldn’t tell how he’s low enough to actually hit me on the ground or should I jump and pogo

[scenic stirrup]

U practically need the hegale spell if u wanna win

[manic pewter]

the problem with red tools is if you suck you just use up all your shell shards and have to beat the boss without them anyway

[narrow sky]

boss fight where we get to beat up kratt

[scenic stirrup]

Otherwise ur cooked

[normal plank]

in a godhome, they will limit ur tool usage significantly

[keen compass]

Not really

[normal plank]

maybe a refill once every 7-8 rooms

[severe thicket]

okay did it spoiler or not

[narrow sky]

it did

[keen compass]

Tis a git good moment

[scenic stirrup]

Maybe im just bad but on my second playthrough i went for it first so i wouldnt have to suffer through his spawns again 😭

[pale narwhal]

ive been playing act 3
GMS didnt make pharloom
it predates her

[normal plank]

ye

[knotty dome]

If you use enough not rlly, architect with poison everything messed lost lace up badly before I re did her again with wanderers and got my ass beat

[severe thicket]

styx is way worse

[keen compass]

Alot of people don't kno the boss fight in the vault area with the super ad rush is extremely easy if you just do Shakra's quest lol cuz Shakra shows up and basically solos the fight for you

[manic pewter]

ok but my point is if ppl are struggling with a fight telling them to "use tools" aint great advice but theyll likely just run out of shell shards

[normal plank]

highkey, if ur running out of shards, its an extreme skill issue

[knotty dome]

How is styx worse he’s not a creep like kratt

[narrow sky]

styx makes food for you, kratt makes you pay so he can see you naked

[keen compass]

It is great advice. Go farm more shards, restock, and try again. Tools are accounted for in difficulty and said Tools do a lot

[manic pewter]

wanderers + max needle makes lost lace TRIVIAL

[knotty dome]

I ignored oils in my first playthrough so there’s that

[keen compass]

I still struggle against Lost Lace cuz of that darn parry

[narrow sky]

should have gotten oiled up smh

[robust wagon]

This doesn't sound like lore to me tbh

[manic pewter]

the one where she parries and then does the rush?

[knotty dome]

Just jump. She either does it normally or from the air but jumping and gliding dodges both

[narrow sky]

it isn't i dont know what happend

[keen compass]

If you want lore, did you know Hollow Knight as a canonical ending

[wary plover]

Do the craws hate hornet

[keen compass]

Said canonical ending is most likely the everbloom godhome ending with the void god

[manic pewter]

craws hate everyone

[keen compass]

They hate everyone

[manic pewter]

and everyone hates craws

[narrow sky]

i'm going to kill myself

[knotty dome]

Like birds they hate everything but even more so after what she did

[mint furnace]

To them, Hornet is the one whose causing the problems so yeah

[pale narwhal]

its ambiguous which one it is, but we know for sure it's not sealed siblings

[keen compass]

no it isn't, play act 3

[mint furnace]

It’s either TE or godhome now, i don’t think it can be any others

[pale narwhal]

I'm actively doing that

[narrow sky]

it is

[mint furnace]

Radiance has to die and the shades have to go into the abyss

[knotty dome]

I don’t even think the craws were haunted, they were just asshole

[manic pewter]

What makes you say its cant be just normal TE

[wary plover]

Only because if they have a problem with hornet why not have an honorable duel with her or send assassins. What's up with this fake ass summons-courtroom bs

[keen compass]

Dream No More and/or Enter the Void are the canonical endings of Hollow Knight 1

[mint furnace]

She was in court though

She was judged, and her punishment was death

[wary plover]

They were gonna kill her from the start

[knotty dome]

She was on trial through pharlooms destruction, i don’t think they’ll be honourable to the bug that wrecked their home

[normal plank]

throns of agony similar to twisted bud?

[keen compass]

cuz in normal ETV, the void rises up from the junk pit and whatnot- And presumably is gonna fuck with hallownest

[pale narwhal]

so it could still be either one

[mint furnace]

Well, honorable brawl with the birds is better than them trying to assassinate her on that bench

[narrow sky]

how did they know tho

[mint furnace]

Government spy drones

[knotty dome]

Hornet asked that too in the journal

[keen compass]

If its everbloom variant, u get no void god tryin to rule the world

so its most likely that

[scenic stirrup]

Where was it mentioned that hornet was jealous of bugs that could fly

[narrow sky]

birds are drone, true

[wary plover]

I hate the craws so much

[keen compass]

Yes but it most likely is ETV everbloom edition given we see the void lord in the act 3 ending plus all the shades

[knotty dome]

Spear skarrs

Entry

[keen compass]

Regardless, Hollow Knight has a canonical ending now basically

[mint furnace]

Indeed

[narrow sky]

kinda yes

[wary plover]

Hornet can fly right?

[knotty dome]

Hornet should not be jealous honestly, she probably has kits and natural abilities whole kingdoms would die for

[wary plover]

I always had this idea she could

[keen compass]

No, she can fall with style

[knotty dome]

And jump super high

[mint furnace]

I see people complain about how “TeAm ChErRy SaiD aLl eNdiNgs WeRe cAnoN” despite it being what, 8 years ago when they said that

[scenic stirrup]

Did yall notice the farsight furniture that gives u insight on ur save file looks like a kings idol in the first game

[wary plover]

I bet you the craws have never made it to the surface

[wary plover]

No wtf that's so cool

[knotty dome]

Silksong basically confirms what they said abt all endings being canon has been retconned

[narrow sky]

does it?

[mint furnace]

And it’s fine

[keen compass]

Not really a 'kinda', there just is
And the only two candidates are DNM and ETV, with ETV being the clear stronger winner of the two

[knotty dome]

Honestly that would’ve been the best ending for hk anyways

[mint furnace]

Any “retcon” is silksong is acceptable because it’s their game and it’s approaching a decade old

[keen compass]

Given the void god + shades only shows up in ETV, and we see both in Silksong act 3 ending

[wary plover]

I think team cherry only said all endings are canon to do the thing where you can pick the one you feel is most real. (As if anyone would pick sealed sisters)

[manic pewter]

the fact that there are two candidates means theres not a canon ending tho

[narrow sky]

you say not kinda and then say it could be three different ones

[mint furnace]

New gamemode where you can choose what ending to start from, and if you choose sealed siblings the game crashes

[mint furnace]

It’s also just team cherry

99% chance they didn’t believe that they just don’t like imposing lore

[wary plover]

It'll be funny if the dlc actually showed us starting from sealed siblings and helping the knight beat godhome

[keen compass]

I said 2 diff ones, not three. I also say 2 because its not SPECIFICALLY confirmed and 1 can be still canon in a way despite the void god not showin up in it

[keen compass]

It can easily be Drakengard logic. Two canonical endings that lead into Silksong

[narrow sky]

the guy you get shade dash from calls you shade lord when you have the void heart

[mint furnace]

Shade lord to me is more of the void manifesting opposed to it forming from endings

[wary plover]

Bro that's fair, tc seem like the kind of chill dudes that don't like making players choose, they don't mind making players suffer though

[scenic stirrup]

My bad but the farsight looks wyrm related

[azure rivet]

what are the names of the coral tower enemies? i know the karaka, karak gor, kakri, driznarga and conchflies

[keen compass]

Void God and the shades don't show up in DNM. Only in ETV

[mint furnace]

It flickers in silksong TE because Hornet is IN the void

[azure rivet]

but what r the others called?

[wary plover]

It'll be funny if the antennas of the wyrm actually had meaning

[mint furnace]

Hot take, silksongs bosses are said to be way harder than they actually are

[keen compass]

The Void God is the void given focus, it IS there cuz it IS the void and the void at that moment has focus

[mint furnace]

Only part I struggled with a little was the 4 damage you could take while platforming but that was mostly removed

[mint furnace]

Yeah, exactly

So it doesn’t need to be embrace the void ending to exist in the lore

It’s just there and in EBV the void is really pissed

[keen compass]

It does because the shades are ALSO there

The shades are all absorbed only in ETV

So it is most likely ETV and not DNM

[mint furnace]

I like to imagine they all power ranger combine into shade lord

[wary plover]

I didn't struggle at all actually, I found it to be just intense enough to have a few tries but not that difficult for me personally

[mint furnace]

Either it doesn’t really matter, as long as radiance dies I think it works

[narrow sky]

my headcanon is that etv flower edition ending is canon but i can see normal etv and dnm endings also being canon

[keen compass]

It being etv also makes the most sense game design wise given godhome was our big final dlc and its ending was a cliffhanger

[mint furnace]

I’d like to say it’s dream no more because godhome endings are odd

[keen compass]

In both flower edition and regular

[wary plover]

Which part of god homes ending is cliff hanger

[mint furnace]

THK wakes up

[narrow sky]

i want it to be etv because then hk survives

[mint furnace]

And shade lord gets out in one of them

[keen compass]

^

[wary plover]

Why is it odd

[keen compass]

Yea which is why the everbloom is most likely the canon one

Given the everbloom is also a major plot point in act 3

[mint furnace]

Radiance getting ripped into godhome and hornet not having the final battle with the knight

[keen compass]

So it'd make sense for specifically ETV everbloom to be canon

[wary plover]

The first one I can explain because the radiance exists in all dreams and the godhome itself is in a dream

Whats etc

Etv

[keen compass]

Hornet is either surprised, scared, or glad to see the knight when her eyes widen in that scene where it saves them

[keen compass]

Enter the Void

[narrow sky]

i'd say surprised is more likely

[keen compass]

I think a more curious implication is the fact the ending is called: Sister of the Void

What do you mean by that TC?

[wary plover]

She thought she was being swallowed by eternal darkness then in that darkness she saw a familiar face

[wary plover]

She is the knights sister. The knight is a void

[keen compass]

Do pharlids/weavers have relation to the void? Hmmmmm? There is a weavernest down there

[neat orchid]

im thinking its cause shes half sibling with void beings

[narrow sky]

her siblings are void making her the sister of the void

[wary plover]

Bro forgot about her fathers dalliance

[keen compass]

Yea ik but if we get a godhome-esque dlc (which we have to-)

There could be an implication

[neat orchid]

nahh it obviously means hornet is void

[neat orchid]

(im joking lol)

[keen compass]

We know silk can carry/interact with void very well