sk-lore

[spring escarp]

Anf they begun growimg roaches as the citadel fialed

[pale narwhal]

honestly
im just as interested in the Blackbarrens and the Sansea Waste
but i wouldnt be surprised if sandsea waste was just the name for the lands between kingdoms

[spring escarp]

Or barnacle area

[spring escarp]

Debatavle

[pale narwhal]

barnacle area?

[cloud plover]

@rain spindle it would seem that jinns masters have to do with void

[edgy river]

"like" is doing a lot of heavy lifting

We can't be sure it refers to them being void creatures

[rain spindle]

It does say the knight is like the masters

[chrome atlas]

The animation we have for Steel Assassin Sharpe has him swinging a void tendril out of his nose, and Steel Assassin Sharpe and Steel Soul Jinn are both Steel characters — it's not that hard of a leap to assume both are void related

[spring escarp]

Like is a vague expression

Also it is a question

[edgy river]

It can also be that the masters are "more complete"

[spring escarp]

What if his nose is just like that

[sinful nimbus]

That is the trait Jinn is pointing out yes

Steel Masters seem to oppose void if anything

[rain spindle]

But it says the knight became like the masters

[foggy fractal]

yeah given Zi's questline

[sinful nimbus]

And black doesn't equal void

[sinful nimbus]

Because its "more complete"

[edgy river]

He's saying the knight is more complete, like the masters.

So they might not be void, just be in good terms with their own nature

[ebon silo]

Freaky

[foggy fractal]

like they are gonna hunt down Sula for messing with the void 😭 she's cooked

[rain spindle]

It inly says that when the knight gets the voidheart

[sinful nimbus]

Because that is when its more complete yes

[pale narwhal]

maybe refering to Higher birth. the void is on a power level equal to (or even beyond) Higher Beings

[spring escarp]

Speaking void would be huge

[ebon silo]

I assume Steel is a complex material that could manipulate void as a weapon or anything

[rain spindle]

What could complete even mean if its not a void thing

[cloud plover]

i think this makes a lot of sense

[sinful nimbus]

TK has come to terms with its own nature - its also become a higher being

[spring escarp]

Not when you get void heart

[rancid violet]

Maybe it's him not being hollow anymore, he's full of black goop

[spring escarp]

that is after godseeker

[spring escarp]

stuffed full of goop

[rain spindle]

Nah the knight is a higher being with voidheart

[sinful nimbus]

Yes when you get void heart, Bardoon notes that it has surpassed PK then

[rain spindle]

The knight is the only pale sibling to actually become one

[pale narwhal]

(speaking of which it seems that Grand Mother Lace is the only Higher being in silksong which is kinda disappointing)

[spring escarp]

if the kngihr is HB already thenw hat does it make the void given docus

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet could never

[cloud plover]

higher hb

[spring escarp]

huh

[edgy river]

That the knight, by unifying himself with their own nature (the void) is now more complete, like the masters are more complete for being on good terms with their own nature.

Or that by getting voidheart the knight is now properly closer in power to a higher being, like the masters

[cloud plover]

hhb

[rain spindle]

Okay so

[rancid violet]

Hornet is already full of silk, she's not got room for all the goop

[spring escarp]

smh my head higher higher being yet he is still short af

[edgy river]

Not to say they aren't void but it's not confirmed

[rain spindle]

Thr masters may be pale beings then

[spring escarp]

Bardoon is the highest being

[cloud plover]

fr…

[edgy river]

It's unclear whether the assassin's are even close to what the masters are or if they just work for them

[rain spindle]

Its possible the masters pulled a pale king and are manipulating it

[pale narwhal]

i imagine the masters wouldn't be doing their own dirty work

[cloud plover]

it does look a lot like a void tendril though

[spring escarp]

Am I disgusting if I have the urge to say something was easy for me if I see someone struggling

[cloud plover]

yes

[spring escarp]

I must hype myself

[cloud plover]

not disgusting just insecure

[rancid violet]

Don't say it's easy

[spring escarp]

I must feel superior

[cloud plover]

probably

[pale narwhal]

don't do it at someone that's struggling

[ebon silo]

Corny bro come on I just woke up🥀

[edgy river]

Also if it is a void tendrils, it puts into question if it's trustworthy and why

Pale Kings experiments with void are, in hornets words, foolish and the void can't be commanded like that

So how can the masters do it, and can they even do it?

[spring escarp]

Asian?

[chrome atlas]

Between Sharpe and Zi existing, and Jinn knowing about void, it's a safe assumption that the Steel Masters are at least heavily associated with void

[pale narwhal]

like ok, i get it, its not normal that last judge took me like 3 days

[ebon silo]

what kind of question is that?

[spring escarp]

Probably

[sinful nimbus]

Kingsmoulds?

[spring escarp]

But made of void?

[cloud mesa]

steel masters could be void entirely

[sinful nimbus]

There's no reason to think Sharpe is void but its not impossible

[spring escarp]

waking up

[ebon silo]

Oh yes

[ebon silo]

Nah no way

[rancid violet]

Maybe it's like how bugs are inflused with silk in pharloom but instead it's void

[cloud mesa]

in silksong: silk steel dlc all will be revealed

[edgy river]

Seem to have overall not have been a good idea. The king died and it (seems) go have void in the room while the kingsmolds void is kinda melting. Also collector happened

[spring escarp]

Silksong: Silk is tougher than steel DLC

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-raccoon-absolute-cinema-gif-17862327649353748812

[chrome atlas]

His shnozz attack is a void tendril. It has the same animation as the angry tendrils do in Hollow Knight base, and it's more exaggerated than Team Cherry's usual cartoony style when it comes to emphasising attacks

[cloud plover]

i agree that speculation is useless with this little info but the sprite does seem to imply that

[spring escarp]

Isn't sharpe backer made? We can kidnap him and make him talk

[pale narwhal]

true, the haunting does let choristors and reeds use silk skills

[cloud plover]

that is a good idea

[spring escarp]

Kidnapping people yes

[edgy river]

Also it's important to remember the assassin's are cut content. Maybe the idea for the steel people changed and that's why they are not in the game.

Maybe there were once void but now they are not by the evolution of the lore. So their appearance is questionable evidence

[cloud mesa]

im guessing that more steel soul stuff was planned but cut to be added into a later dlc

[sinful nimbus]

No its not

[edgy river]

(it's evidence but should be taken with a grain of salt)

[sinful nimbus]

Black smear frames don't indicate void

They indicate a black thing is flailing around, in this case Sharpe's proboscis

[spring escarp]

Does literally any other enemy do anthing similar tho

[cloud plover]

it has the same sprite as one of the void tendril ones

[sinful nimbus]

Other examples include Hornet's hand and Pale Lurker's arms

[sinful nimbus]

No it does not

[spring escarp]

Misinformation

[spring escarp]

But also even if it did, creative reusage

[cloud plover]

i didn’t circle btw don’t look at the circle

[sinful nimbus]

That's not the same sprite

[pale narwhal]

do we have an image of sharpe getting hit?

[spring escarp]

Could happen

[sinful nimbus]

The two are also visibly different in their animations

[chrome atlas]

They're also backer content, which is incorporated into the game eventually. Karmelita and Khaan were both cut from Hollow Knight and put into Silksong; it's a safe assumption that Sharpe'll make it in anyways

[cloud plover]

the tall one in the middle left is basically the same thing

as sharpes attack

[edgy nebula]

sharpe is not void

[cloud plover]

how do you know

[spring escarp]

I hope they never tie all the lose ends and are forced to make hollow kngiht 3

[edgy river]

Yes but we can't know if they'll be changed in any way before being incorporated (likely)

[pale narwhal]

i think their point was that they were cut so their lore could be altered

[cloud plover]

this is very true

[rancid violet]

It's a black flailing thing, it's vague yall

[edgy nebula]

thats simply his proboscis

[cloud mesa]

wha

[sinful nimbus]

Its visibly not

Sharpe's nose isn't barbed

[cloud mesa]

is this not like very very clearly a void tendril lmfao

[pale narwhal]

i mean like
most intelligent bugs are depicted having all black bodies under their clothes/shell

[cloud plover]

it is an extremely similar sprite

[edgy river]

Why was hornets weaver power important for the citadel?

[cloud mesa]

how r u arguing that isnt void its so void

[edgy nebula]

sharpe nose btw

[chrome atlas]

Yes. Lost Lace's tentacle attack, Hollow Knight void tendrils going nuts, and Void Husk/gooped up enemies swoocing their bits around. The specific 'barbs at the end of tentacle' thing is itself a specifically void-associated asthetic choice

[spring escarp]

wake up GMS or maybe lace

[edgy nebula]

those are motion lines

[cloud mesa]

r we being dead ass

[spring escarp]

theze aren't barbs

[pale narwhal]

not necessarily her powers
but GMS wanted to harvest any weaver descendants it seems, most likely for their silk itself

[spring escarp]

These are blurs

[cloud plover]

how do you know this ?

[chrome atlas]

Silk supply or to wake up GMS, most likely

[spring escarp]

eyes

[cloud plover]

nah u trippin

[rancid violet]

They've been kidnapping other bugs that produce silk too, my guess would be that mother silk is consuming them/their silk production capabilities

[cloud plover]

they are extremely similar even given the minute difference in barbs

[edgy nebula]

because look at them

[pale narwhal]

i think less wake up and more sustain

[chrome atlas]

A very good point, God Tamer was a backer NPC and got changed a ton too

[spring escarp]

these ain't barbs, it is all blurr and liek it doesn't break the curve when connecting to the stem like barbs

[spring escarp]

ehat the backer said about sharpe tho

[cloud mesa]

like

[chrome atlas]

Backer's said sweet Fanny Adams about Sharpe's role in the game, all we know about them is what TC's said

[spring escarp]

I see no barbs

Unbarbaric

[edgy river]

Honestly the steel assassin talk isn't going anywhere. We are discussing lore implication of how a character that is not even in the game looks like a vague shape.

We won't actually know until they confirm the steel assassins in this image even exist and there not much to be gathered from no matter if it's void or not tbh

[spring escarp]

Slowmotiom footage available maybe?

[cloud plover]

yea fs

[cloud mesa]

lets table this idscussion for steel silk dlc lol

[chrome atlas]

We have 1 PNG and 1 GIF

[cloud plover]

i think it’s weird to say he’s 100% confirmed not void

[rancid violet]

We just don't know and you are chase your own tales

[cloud mesa]

silksong: into the void and silksong: steel soilders dlcs will answer all of our questions

[edgy river]

Why can hornet just beat out the void out of lace anyway? Maybe because she's silk?

[spring escarp]

We can make it play slowly probably

[pale narwhal]

because she's half Pale?

[spring escarp]

Duplicating frames

[cloud mesa]

hollow knight does sprite sheets right?

[edgy river]

I don't think PK had that ability, tho it's not impossible technically

[chrome atlas]

put her in the tumble dryer

[spring escarp]

half pale, half silk, half bee

[spring escarp]

yes we saw on leaks

[rancid violet]

You can just pour the goop out of lace like a woven cup

[cloud mesa]

leaks ⁉️

[pale narwhal]

no but, combined with everything else

[dire fossil]

Is there a lore reason why there are so many fucking bells in the game, and even tunnels made of bells?

[spring escarp]

hornet sprite sheet

[cloud mesa]

do u mean like datamined stuff or leak leaks

[spring escarp]

pictures pre launvh for some museum thing maybe idk id rememevr

[edgy river]

Wake up GMS maybe? I'm not sure

[foggy fractal]

I would send you the document with every silksong sprite but it seems like its not accessible rn

[rancid violet]

My guess would be that bells are a great way to thematically combine music and metalworking

[cloud mesa]

where is mossbag?!?!?!?!

[foggy fractal]

datamined

[edgy river]

Maybe each pale being is obsessed with a random object

Bells, Saws

[cloud mesa]

pharloom just loves its music

[pale narwhal]

its weird that Hallownest had 3 native Higher Beings and a 4th migrate in
but then Pharloom being so much bigger only has GMS
not even a hint of others being removed or anything

[cloud plover]

pharloom is weird

or hallownest is weird

or everything is weird

[rancid violet]

The green princes and the ant lady are kinda like higher beings

[edgy river]

PK was nice and populated an already populated area mostly keeping others be

[spring escarp]

datamined hornet sprites:

[spring escarp]

lmao any answer on the bell obsession mistery

why so many you can travel inside

[foggy fractal]

nah I'd argue that they were just strong bugs

[pale narwhal]

yea but like
if there had been other higher beings in Pharloom that were killed or exiled, wouldnt we get hints of them? a relic here or there?

[rancid violet]

Are there any actual looms in game

[edgy river]

GMS seemed to just want everything for her and nothing for anyone else so she probably made pharloom in a place/way there was no other higher beings or if there was she killed and erased them

[spring escarp]

bells, saws... children...

[spring escarp]

the weavernest doors have some tight strands that might be on a loom thing?

[cloud mesa]

hollow knight silk doesnt become fabric

[edgy river]

Maybe Pharloom was created in a area there werent any, specifically so she would be the only one?

[spring escarp]

first sinner makes clothes out of tjin air

[rancid violet]

Then what are all the shawls made out of if there's nowhere to weave

[spring escarp]

Probably silk becoming fabric right there

[pale narwhal]

Marilyn Bugroe

[cloud mesa]

oh i did not know about that

[spring escarp]

Plant

[rancid violet]

Plant?

[spring escarp]

Cotton

[cloud mesa]

but thats through silk magic not like sowing

[rancid violet]

You still need to weave that

[spring escarp]

vegetable fiber, why they didn't add snow

oh yeah i see

[cloud mesa]

also why is there no silk skill where hornet crochets bad game

[chrome atlas]

Actually yeah hang on, how many looms have we seen in Pharloom?

no silk fishing pole 0/10 game

[edgy river]

Itll be dlc

[spring escarp]

isn't the logotype literally a loom

[cloud mesa]

pharloom is a loom

[round adder]

But don't we see a young hornet weave her own cloak

[neat plank]

whats a loom

[cloud mesa]

but like through magic

[spring escarp]

might be it they going for

[cloud mesa]

not through looming

[spring escarp]

fabric thingie

https://tenor.com/view/sheldon-loom-the-big-bang-gif-7886252

[neat plank]

why would they need a loom

[rancid violet]

Looms are machines that weave thread into fabric

[spring escarp]

So they dont have to be naked

[pale narwhal]

to make cloth

[rancid violet]

It is literally called phar loom

[spring escarp]

like the jacquard machine

[neat plank]

they got clothes tho

[cloud mesa]

theres other fabric in hollow knight besides silk tho

[pale narwhal]

and how did they get those

[neat plank]

idk grandmother silk did it

[spring escarp]

any fabric will need a loom tho

[pale narwhal]

and it all needs looming

[spring escarp]

Or crochet

[cloud mesa]

yeah

[spring escarp]

idk

[pale narwhal]

you still need a device to make the yarn to crochet

[rancid violet]

It's just very odd that the whole kingdom has a sewing/weaving theme yet fabric isn't elaborated on

[spring escarp]

Do you?

[spring escarp]

Well you can get a new cloak

They could have added real time cloth simulation...

would be neat

[rancid violet]

Oh that's true actually, we do get clothing items

[chrome atlas]

Right, that's a point, Seamstress does have a loom

[pale narwhal]

wait

[spring escarp]

she DOES

[rancid violet]

But gms seems to only care about her puppeteering threads and not weaving anything

[spring escarp]

Yes

[pale narwhal]

mystery solved, we found the only loom in pharloom

[chrome atlas]

we did it, folks
we solved pharloom

[rancid violet]

The only loom is in the middle of nowhere

[spring escarp]

She weavea a massive silk yarn ball

sort of

[pale narwhal]

well its not called Pharlooms is it
just pharloom

[rancid violet]

On a bunch of suspended platforms so that the weaver isn't taken over
That's wild, I bet that means something

[spring escarp]

We might have missed more

[spring escarp]

The mythical loom from pharloom

[rancid violet]

The only loom in the world

[pale narwhal]

hey, there could be other -loom kingdoms

[chrome atlas]

Pharloom's sister city Niirloom

[spring escarp]

Closloom

[rancid violet]

Near loom, phar loom, everywhere a loom loom

[spring escarp]

what are the chances he juat picked a name that sounds cool

And it is not a reference ro anything

[pale narwhal]

midrangeloom

[spring escarp]

cursednest

[rancid violet]

Loom over there, loom across the road

[pale narwhal]

oopsalllooms

[rancid violet]

VoidLoom!

[spring escarp]

What are saloons.

[pale narwhal]

you mean salooms

[rancid violet]

Oops all looms

[pale narwhal]

yea i said that one already

[vague whale]

Cap'n Crunch:

[spring escarp]

Fate looms over all of us.

[rancid violet]

Looms menacingly

The word loom is starting to loose all meaning

[pale narwhal]

hyloom, loloom,
termiloom,

[buoyant salmon]

Can HK/Pure Vessel talk?

[rancid violet]

DeepLoom
ShallowLoom

[rancid violet]

They don't in game

[spring escarp]

they can probably read

So maybe write should work

[buoyant salmon]

Because if the DLC happen, HK may return

[spring escarp]

No it didn't.

[bleak mauve]

is there a logical way to explain why Hornet lost all her abilities at the start of the game?

[spring escarp]

the game explains

[rancid violet]

Cage

[spring escarp]

the travel and cage weakened her

[chrome atlas]

PV's the ideal vessel, which means No Voice. Hollow Knight might be able to speak?

[chrome atlas]

brain damage

[spring escarp]

she gets bitchslapped later by cage agan later

And then by voidplosion

Also she is generally not tuff like the night

and she is old as fuck

and gets no mates

[pale narwhal]

very long time spent bound apparently
not that the HK had any issue with that but theyre just built different

[tiny socket]

She canonically gets multiple mates

[rancid violet]

So in HK the Knight doesn't speak to anyone, the only prompt you get to listen to people tall at you. In SS hornet speaks to everyone.

[spring escarp]

not anymore cause she is old and she has no rosaries on the start

[chrome atlas]

This is about the Hollow Knight, not the Knight

[pale narwhal]

shes had lots of mates apparently

they all died

[spring escarp]

distsnt past

Practically a bugcel

[vague whale]

Hornet is not a bugcel

[rancid violet]

Oh whoops
I saw that word knight too many times

[spring escarp]

bugcel core

[pale narwhal]

everyone that hornet gets with dies
its like shes cursed or something

[vague whale]

you just can't cope with the fact that Hornet gets more bitches than you

[spring escarp]

twisted shadow ending

[tiny socket]

Everyone who drinks water also dies

[spring escarp]

I am not willing to fuck bugs

[sinful nimbus]

"I don't get any dates because they all die of old age 🥺 " yeah right its definitely not because everyone dumped you for your racist rhetoric

[chrome atlas]

Fair, we've all fallen victim to semantic saturation in the past

[spring escarp]

Yes, you see how she treats slab flies?

[pale narwhal]

everyone who lived in ancient rome died, coincidence?

[buoyant salmon]

yeah since they have dream nail thought, I would think that they can at least speak some words

[spring escarp]

they all were italian

[rancid violet]

Hornet loves big fluffy things
I would like to present the idea of her dating that big buff and gruff lady flea

[spring escarp]

I cna see the reason

[tiny socket]

Perhaps they couldn’t escape Rome because of the critical design flaw of the roads

[sinful nimbus]

Vog is too good for her

[spring escarp]

vog?

[sinful nimbus]

Shakra x Vog is where its at

[buoyant salmon]

also where is Shakra in act 3

[spring escarp]

kratt and hornet shippers where at

[rancid violet]

Yes? I'm bad at remembering names

[sinful nimbus]

Bellhart

[buoyant salmon]

she is?

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah or the adjacent rooms

[spring escarp]

Gentleman offers free sauna even

[rancid violet]

Can you hit her summoning ring

[sinful nimbus]

"free"

[vague whale]

[sinful nimbus]

Nope

[spring escarp]

when did they maks this meme

[buoyant salmon]

lmao

[rancid violet]

Oh
OH NO
NO

[spring escarp]

[chrome atlas]

and he gets her to bounce on it in act 3, too ||'it' being fleas in helmets, of course||

[spring escarp]

Kratt likes it

[rancid violet]

In the club straight up Kratting it

[vague whale]

[spring escarp]

People confuse hornet to a child though

So kratt is canonically...

[buoyant salmon]

tbh TC is really good at making disgusting bug irl cute, like the Fleas

[rancid violet]

That's just because she's short

[spring escarp]

why she is short again

pk nvm

[vague whale]

we should pour kratt into the underworks

[rancid violet]

Wyrm is tiny boy

[spring escarp]

the secret is doing ghem nothing like the reference

[buoyant salmon]

also what specie is the bell beast

[spring escarp]

what if Pk mated with whitelady and herrah on his original form

[vague whale]

bell beast species

[buoyant salmon]

and making them sound like a flying puppy

[rancid violet]

Looooooooong spider

[tiny socket]

Puppy

[buoyant salmon]

I mean ref to real life one

[spring escarp]

metroidvania would just eb that nokia snake game

[chrome atlas]

Selectively bred Wormway worm I think, it looks a little like them but bigger and it's near them in HJ

[buoyant salmon]

so we have Bell Puppies and Fluffy Puppies

[vague whale]

Yeah thats a theory I've been pondering

It's definitely different from them but it's a possibility

[spring escarp]

fleas that howl like wolves... checks out...

[spring escarp]

hmmmmmmm

[vague whale]

don't forget crocodile puppies

[buoyant salmon]

btw I ask you guys again, where is she in act 3

[chrome atlas]

It reminds me of a flatter pillbug, or like a roach

[vague whale]

damn roaches

[spring escarp]

Domesticated worm

[tiny socket]

I’d appreciate collecting fleas if instead of fleas, it was just sherma singing in a variety of locations that I have to find

[chrome atlas]

go to the left and/or right of bellhart

[spring escarp]

outside

[rancid violet]

Sherma just has her head stuck in lots of pots and weird viney walls

[buoyant salmon]

He*

[rancid violet]

My apologies
I swear my misgendering isn't intentional

[buoyant salmon]

it's ok

[rancid violet]

I have the memory of Swiss cheese

They should add a massive rat as a boss at some point

No fancy name
It's just a rat

[vague whale]

but that's not a bug

not even a plant or mushroom

thas a mammal

[rancid violet]

Neither is a slug

Or a big automaton

[vague whale]

the big automatons are fashioned by and after bugs

[rancid violet]

Have there really not been any mamals?

The ones I'm thinking of are just mammalish bugs, never mind

The mites are pretty rat like I suppose

[vague whale]

Mites fulfill the purpose of "ratlike enemy" yes

[chrome atlas]

We've only seen invertebrates in Hollow Knight

[vague whale]

spineless world

[rancid violet]

Okay the rat was a bad idea
In my defense it's like 3am and I can't sleep

[snow sandal]

does my boi flick the fixer die in act iii

i'd presume so

with the rest of bonebottom

right?

[rancid violet]

Aw no not the boi

[sinful nimbus]

No

[rancid violet]

I still have the figure he carved

[sinful nimbus]

Bonebottom survivors move somewhere else

[snow sandal]

wait they do

like
where

[sinful nimbus]

where the caravan originally was

[zinc pivot]

The first place you met fleas

[silver spire]

the old flea caravan in the marrow

[regal crow]

Anyone got general lore on the bell beasts?

[silver spire]

i mean, theyre just transportation no?

[regal crow]

Yeah, but are they domesticated beasts of burden, are they sapient, why are they used for this

[snow sandal]

oh hell yeah

[zinc pivot]

Well we only know they are tough nuts, most likely a grom subspecies from wormways

[rancid violet]

Considering the fuckton of bells everywhere they needed something good at digging so they bred a really tough worm

[edgy nebula]

where did the bells even come from

[zinc pivot]

Yeah bells are even mentioned as bell veins

[regal crow]

So domesticated beasts of burden

[zinc pivot]

Like are bells a sort of natural resource that just spawn

[regal crow]

Bellveins? Like the tunnels around bellhart?

[zinc pivot]

Or remains of an even older pharloom

[covert tusk]

So Pharloom’s Folly is about Silk like how Elegy to Hallownest is about the PK, right??
Like “When you wake they shall see your truth, a beasts nature bare to all” is about the haunting and Silk’s nature, “They forget your heart, bound in slumber and servitude” as she’s lulled to sleep by music so her silk can be used by the citadel, and “They see your peace, woven of faith and toil” being the systems that prop up the citadel

[covert tusk]

And it just being named Pharloom’s Folly
Pharloom’s Foolishness, their fall
Silk

Like if it isn’t her I’m curious who else but like it’s gotta be Silk imo

[rancid violet]

Bells do seem to be most of the means of transportation which is... it's odd
I mean the mix of music with the metal working makes sense but there are SO MANY bells

[silver spire]

basically "pharloom is cooked if GMS wakes up"

[chrome atlas]

Oh, that's something I didn't notice, was Romino the Conductor you get the spooky psalm cylinder of in Whiteward?

[zinc pivot]

No that was Mizello

[silver spire]

song is a mysterious and important element in silksong we dont know alot about

[silver spire]

that was mizello/ aka the unravelled

[covert tusk]

“Guys please I know we’re god awful but we’re ALLLLLL fucked if she doesn’t go nappy nap”

[zinc pivot]

The psalm cylinder describe his last operation where he fucking died

[silver spire]

the unravelled is mizello

he didnt die, just went insane

[chrome atlas]

The Unravelled is a lotta dude, but I wasn't sure if it was Mizella or Romino

[silver spire]

or smth idk

[covert tusk]

Wait Mizello is part of the unravelled? I thought that was just the culmination of the white ward’s victims

[zinc pivot]

It is both i reckon

[silver spire]

the unravelled looks like a conductor

[zinc pivot]

The Unravelled is basically a pustule of living silk

[silver spire]

here's conductor ballador

and heres the unravelled

[covert tusk]

So like the main body is Mizello, but it’s also an amalgamation

[silver spire]

now take a look, and tell me these dont look similar if not nearly identical save a few details

[zinc pivot]

It’s just that mizellos body happen to be there along with the rest of them

[chrome atlas]

"Tormented will of countless husks made manifest in a pit of Silk dregs." from the HJ entry, it might be Mizello's body but it's not just them in there

[zinc pivot]

They are part of the unravelled, not THE unravelled

[rancid violet]

You could say he's conducting an orchestra of bound together husks

[zinc pivot]

All the mention of the silk husk is them reanimated, not alive

So yeah mizello definitely croaked

[lime nova]

Hey gamers

[lime nova]

I got the impression it was just the helmet

[covert tusk]

I did too but then phoenix showed ballador and it back to back and now it’s screaming at my face lmao

[edgy river]

I don't think this is it. You can fight unraveled in act 2 and I'm pretty sure mizellos body still appears where he was during act 3

I'd have to confirm if he in his place in act 3 if u beat unraveled on act 2 but Im pretty sure he is

[lusty mica]

Can someone tell me lore about first sinner?

Because I just fought with her and she says something like cursed by truth and silk

Sorry for my english

[edgy river]

In any case. They are similar, maybe the same species? (Only the bodies, of course)

[covert tusk]

She’s the first weaver created presumably, and was also most likely a key figure in the weavers rebelling against GMS, so she was caught and locked up while other weavers fled

[rancid violet]

The First Sinner is one of the original weavers, spiders that were given higher thinking. Grand Mother Silk did this so they would devote themselves to her. First Sinner was the first to question why they should. And she was jailed for the rest of time essentially.

[steel turret]

And probably the inciting incident that made the weavers decide to betray her

[covert tusk]

First Sinner is so funny cuz she probably isn’t really bad at all but her first instinct upon release was to try and murder us

What happened to thank you LMAO

[rancid violet]

She had to test if you were strong enough for her floaty runes

[vivid kernel]

Can I ask a potentially dumb question

[rancid violet]

Of course

[vivid kernel]

Did grandma silk put the silken curse on the bugs? If so, who's controlling them cause she seems to be asleep

Cause like the bugs of bellhart are controlled by the widow so it seems to me that someone must operate these bugs after they've been ensnared by the silk

[rancid violet]

She is the cause of the curse yes, far as I know she kinda controls them in her sleep. Not by directly puppeting each one but just with general commands to keep everything going eternally

[vivid kernel]

When did she do it btw, did the curse start after the weavers put her into sleep or before

[zinc pivot]

After it must be

Because if its before the weavers wouldve been immediately enthralled

[vivid kernel]

Then what was even the point of putting her to sleep ion get it

[rancid violet]

I don't know for sure but she does have bugs capture those capable of produce silk. It can be assumed that's for sustaining the curse

[zinc pivot]

So they can both rule and find a method to eliminate her for good

Thats what the weavenests are for, secret hideout they use to research ways

[vivid kernel]

Also another potentially dumb question but where are the new pilgrims coming from cause the only entrance to pharloom I found was from the blasted steps but pilgrims seem to start from home bottom

[vivid kernel]

But didn't they run away after making her sleep or am I mistaken

[zinc pivot]

Blasted steps is the entrance to Citadel

Pharloom still has many unknown entry really

[granite spoke]

Maybe they’re drawn to pharloom in a similar method to the pale kings beacon?

[vivid kernel]

So she can create the curse but not sustain it due to her power being subdued that makes sense I guess a lil bit

[zinc pivot]

Conductor Ballador and Mask Maker dialogues imply they were still there ruling after silk was put to sleep

[vivid kernel]

Yeah they are, I just meant like the entrances cause I only found one

[rancid violet]

They didn't just pit her to sleep, she's physically weakened too. They're assumably waiting for a weaver to bind all their strength to themselves and take down mother

[vivid kernel]

Oh shit yeah you right

So when did they run away and why

[zinc pivot]

If its true it really is irony that they use a pale beings kin to defeat another pale being

[vivid kernel]

Iiiiiii don't get it

So some weavers stayed and made her weak

And some ran away? And they were waiting for them to come back and find a way to defeat gramma somehow

[zinc pivot]

When all their methods failed, remember the snare setter, the silkshot and even eva didn’t have enough power

[silver spire]

beat the coral guy

[vivid kernel]

Hm okay that makes sense

And what are the thingies where we get our skills btw and why do they know who we are

[rancid violet]

I think that most stayed in Pharloom but a splinter faction followed Herrah to find somewhere else to live. Hence why the hallownest weavers were so resistant to another Pale Being (PK)

[vivid kernel]

Wait what no herrah is a native of hallownest

[zinc pivot]

I assume they are the enshrined remains of the past weavers who were worshipped

[vivid kernel]

I think pretty sure

[rancid violet]

Yeah I'm pretty sure they are weavers, since first Sinner has a similar effigy in her prison

[vivid kernel]

Why do they know who we are and why does it give us powers

Cause they say "Daughter of a distant land blablabla"

[silent phoenix]

👀 maybe its a pre-recorded message?

[vivid kernel]

Also doesn't the first sinner pop out of the thing

So maybe it actually has weavers inside it

[vivid kernel]

How would they know we would be a daughter lol

[zinc pivot]

Because all weaverborn is female no matter what

[silent phoenix]

Apparently these structures are called funerary spires, so maybe when weavers die then turn into stone structures like this?

[silent phoenix]

How do they reproduce??

[zinc pivot]

Well, biologically, but its a very painful process with low survival rate

[fossil ledge]

The cavern where Bone Bottom is seems to lead into the back of the place, which you can tell cause the whole thing is a giant bug's corpse and its spine leads there. My guess is there's an entrance to the region there, one relatively big and safe

[fair zealot]

question. why is the fourth chorus in far fields and why is there a pin in its head

[zinc pivot]

Answer: It was huntint down seamstress and that pin was her

[vivid kernel]

Wait really?

[fossil ledge]

Considering its proximity to the Seamstress, I assumed she defeated it

[vivid kernel]

If so, why would they have the word daughter in their language

[zinc pivot]

And we awoken it by wearing her craft

[zinc pivot]

Weavers live and rule other beings why wouldn’t they know about female and male bugs

[fair zealot]

mhmm that makes sense actually but why was it down there in the first place? and why does the citadel need giant mecha robots just to... sing?

[zinc pivot]

If anything they probably study their own body too

[vivid kernel]

But first sinner weren't dead

[gray swallow]

Idk if I missed it but do you ever find zylotols assistant? Like says when you find him if you had met his assistant so do we meet them?

[fossil ledge]

The mechs seem to be for mining in the lava, where bugs can't do it. They're just named after song-related things cause it's "holy"

[vivid kernel]

Oh, that's fair enough

[silent phoenix]

She was… playing dead? Maybe?

[zinc pivot]

The entire first sinner sequence was pretty much in our head imo, she didn’t kill us outright

[fossil ledge]

Yes, he's in the lower left area behind a breakable wall

[zinc pivot]

Theres no cocoon in her arena

[vivid kernel]

Why would she play dead in a prison for so damn long 😭

[vivid kernel]

Whattt

[silent phoenix]

No idea uwu

[rancid violet]

What else is there to do

[vivid kernel]

Is it like a silk dream fight

[fair zealot]

iirc there's a lore tablet in the underworks (or somewhere citadel related) referring to a machine that is like, a "perfect voice"

[gray swallow]

In wormways? Also is he there in act 3?

[fossil ledge]

Yes

[gray swallow]

K thanks

[zinc pivot]

Be ready for a surprise

[fossil ledge]

Well, there's many automatons that sing

[vivid kernel]

Is the assistant dude the guy that got overtaken by plasmium

[fossil ledge]

Yes

[fair zealot]

first sinner isn't outright a memory probably, it behaves the same way as the shakra fight when you lose. so first sinner is deliberately not killing hornet

[vivid kernel]

That fight is so annoying

[snow sandal]

sister splinter is the sister of whom

[vivid kernel]

The shakra fight????

[gray iris]

he is a zambo in the lower left worm area

[rancid violet]

I think it's a title, like nuns calling each other Sister

[gray iris]

he od on the blue shit

[fossil ledge]

You ask an interesting question. I got witch or spirit vibes from her design, so I assume the siblings are the other stick insect bugs

[zinc pivot]

Of all splinters

Also it rhymes so its cooler

[fair zealot]

the splinters, no? like the stickbug enemies are literally called splinters

[snow sandal]

hmm
noted

[gray iris]

i didnt even know sister splinter is a stick bug

she just looks like a lady made of bark

poor game design

[fossil ledge]

It greatly resembles the spiny leaf insect

[snow sandal]

bad boss vs bad boss

[zinc pivot]

I mean, all splinters are stickbugs

Make sense they would resemble tree in one way or another

[gray iris]

yeah but the little splinters look like stick bugs the boss does not

[snow sandal]

relatable

[gray iris]

u cannot tell me this is a stick bug

[zinc pivot]

Its a branch bug

[gray iris]

it dont even have legs like she is part tree

[fossil ledge]

I mean, it's highly stylized, but the resemblance to the spiny leaf insect is there for me

[rancid violet]

Iirc the females of that species are much bigger than males irl so Sister Splinter is sending her harem in to kill you

[fossil ledge]

Especially since the males are much smaller and winged

Which is the vibe I got from the spinjitzu ones

[zinc pivot]

Point is the splinters are meant to resemble tree branches thats all
Sincr they are stick bug inspired

[gray iris]

her legs are tree roots she is just a tree

[zinc pivot]

Its an aesthetic thing

[rancid violet]

So she's a branch insect rather than a stick

[gray iris]

fun fact the bird on the mountain is actually a bug

[fair zealot]

"stick bug" is a general term here i imagine, just broadly referring to bugs that look like sticks n stuff

[gray iris]

it have compound eyes and a bug shell and bug legs

[rancid violet]

It fluffy like moth

[ivory jolt]

Anyone knows why the ||twelfth architect|| just dies?

[fossil ledge]

Interestingly enough, the "roots" she has don't resemble the rest of her body. Perhaps she discarded her legs in favour of something that would allow her greater mobility on the ceiling amonst the roots of the place?

[gray iris]

but like it has a fluffy head and upper body so it looks like a pigeon

[zinc pivot]

It finished its mission of serving us

[fossil ledge]

Probably operating too long without maintenance, aid or a replacement, if I had to guess

[zinc pivot]

Also its implied it has been enslaved for quite a long time

[ivory jolt]

[gray iris]

i wish hollow knight 2 had flea minics

[rancid violet]

Who knows how long it was stuck in that workshop alone

[gray iris]

like make them split apart and turn into a crab that pinch u

[rancid violet]

Like a decorator crab with fluff stuck to it

[gray iris]

u know what other game based on a game with mimics but does not have mimics elden ring

[fossil ledge]

I'm also guessing that after spending an age toiling alone for a dead kingdom, it has no desire to repair or restore itself, which is quite a depressing thought

Would've been interesting for it and the Second Sentinel to restore each other's faith in the people and fight for a worthwhile cause

[rancid violet]

Considering what the underworks is like... I kinda get it

It's like living in an eternal chimney

[gray iris]

i thought u become the architect to replace architect

cuz u get the architect crest

[fossil ledge]

I suppose you could see it that way as well

[zinc pivot]

Lore wise maybe we can become architect

Hornet has mechanical inclinations and weavers are VERY good craftsman

[fossil ledge]

Then there's also the interesting lore of all cogwork bugs having a single gleamfly at their core, which are implied to be the spirits of deceased pilgrims...

[zinc pivot]

Look at their handheld laser and laser turret

And their near lightspeed elevator

[fossil ledge]

Yeah, the Weaver's technological aptitude and bases reminded me a bit of Forerunner tech in Halo

[rancid violet]

So I looked it up, Herrah is just from Deepnest. Not from pharloom. I did the thing where I assumed all weavers were in the same place at one point

[zinc pivot]

It is stated in SS that Herrah is a weaver

[fossil ledge]

Speaking of this, it reminded me quite a bit of this insect, the woolly aphid

[zinc pivot]

And the thing with Pale being is that their subjects are gathered in a singular beginning point

[fossil ledge]

I will admit that Herrah's lore got a bit confusing now. She's referred to as a native to Deepnest in Hollow Knight, to the point that her title is "the Beast", because unlike the king, she was not of higher caste. Her dalliance with the Pale King was to ensure a powerful ruler could succeed her as the monarch of Deepnest.

Yet in Silksong we're told Herrah was 100% Weaver, who are essentially demigods, and connected to Grand Mother Silk

This makes her whole reason for becoming a Dreamer a bit vague now. As a Weaver herself, her lifespan is near indefinite. You'd then think she couldn't just have offspring then, hence her dalliance, but we see plenty of Little Weavers in Deepnest.

[zinc pivot]

You wouldn’t exactly call the immigrant in your homeland one of higher caste

This is regarding deepnest hierachy anyway

[fossil ledge]

Yet the Weavers are never referred to as beasts, from what I can recall

[zinc pivot]

Weavers are never referred to in Hollow Knight as anything

[fossil ledge]

They're just referred to as Weavers, no?

[grim sky]

I have a question regarding why the Weaver had to leave Pharloom. If they had successfully put Silk to sleep, why did they have to leave in the first place?

[keen compass]

random lore note but anyone else realize the major implications of the weavers knowing about the void given form? aka the void lord?

[zinc pivot]

Because the seal doesn’t last forever

[rancid violet]

I mean we have the crest of the beast, so weavers have some beast in them

[zinc pivot]

Literally born from pharlids which are savages

[fossil ledge]

It would seem that her being sealed was imperfect, to the point she'd managed to rouse the silk-afflicted bugs in rebellion of the Weavers themselves

[chrome atlas]

We do see regular Weavers in Hollow Knight as infected enemies in Deepnest. I don't think they're a species that has inherent powers other than silk generation — some of them are good at making magic and things, sure, but I don't think the majority of Weavers are gigastrong or anything

[keen compass]

No seal is permanent

I think atm its pretty much confirmed you cannot permanently seal a higher being

[zinc pivot]

Case in point, Hollow Knight

[fossil ledge]

Aren't crests absorbed from the environment they're collected in, though?

[keen compass]

Radiance couldn't be sealed, GMS couldn't be sealed, like- Radiance had one of the most solid thought out plans too for its seal, and that failed horribly

[fossil ledge]

Or do they only reveal a hidden aspect of Hornet's nature?

[rancid violet]

Also it's kinda difficult to keep the mother of silk contained in silk

[keen compass]

nah, its super easy, barely an inconvenience- givne they did it, and kept her asleep. problem is that no seal is permanently, so the weavers most likely fled to hallownest is my theory

[wild zinc]

Would you guys prefer to live in the city of tears or the citadel

[keen compass]

I think the sealing of GMS predates Hallownest as a kingdom, and that's how we get weavers in Hallownest

[fossil ledge]

You make a good point, she mentions being unable to repair herself as the necessary knowledge is lost.

[chrome atlas]

'Beast' could also be more metaphorical than literal; Herrah managed to rule Deepnest, which is brutal, and her epithet could refer to her as more of a 'brutal leader/warrior' than a literal beast. Crests are (IIRC) referred to as a Weaver philosophy regarding castes, so it's plausible that the Crest of the Beast refers to a metaphorical fierce warrior that fights like a wild animal, rather than a literal wild animal

[keen compass]

city of tears, no contest, what

[cedar skiff]

was she straight up sealed in the cocoon though or was that something she made around herself for the sake of protection like in act 3

[keen compass]

Example- First Sinner

[keen compass]

sealed, and slowly waking up, hence the haunting

[fossil ledge]

This would make sense, but we got an explanation for Herrah's title in the first game

[noble thunder]

Are the Weavers actually webspinners?
So far I haven't actually seen any instances of them having more than 6 eyes and 6 legs, so I'm pretty sure they're insects. The structures they build are also INCREDIBLY close to webspinners' "galleries" irl.

[cedar skiff]

unfortunately it literally makes zero sense for her to be sealed within the cocoon itself

[chrome atlas]

Weavers were also just unpopular in Pharloom. It could be that they were in charge of the Citadel in GMS's nana nap, and they weren't beloved then. It could just be that rising political pressures forced them into exodus

[keen compass]

we know gms has 6 arms, plus her two 'legs'

[cedar skiff]

no they were worshipped

people prayed to the weavers

[keen compass]

it makes perfect sense actually, the trap you use for act 3 is actually a void modified weaver trap- The original snare setter, a larger variant, was used for GMS

[keen compass]

anyways, GMS does have 6 arms, 2 legs- that's 8 appendages, then as for eyes- she could have the arachnid amount of eyes necessary

[cedar skiff]

but its clearly explained that the cocoon around herself in the lake of void is one made and upkept on purpose by her to keep lace away from the void

[keen compass]

so they are in fact most likely spider

[noble thunder]

But isn't she her own thing? My understanding was that she "created" the weavers by mutating pharlips (or whatever those crawly enemies from the blasted steps are called)

[keen compass]

that one is different

[edgy barn]

Little Weavers are in a really weird spot lore-wise right now

[chrome atlas]

Pharlids are described as arachnids in the HJ while also having only six legs

[cedar skiff]

it just makes no sense for her to be sealed within silk at all

[rancid violet]

I think I assumed while playing that all weavers started in pharloom and that Herrah intentionally left and was trying to find her own way of being free of mother silk. That the deal with PK was to make a being that could face GMS and potentially win. Which is why she was trained by atleast 3 Queens. Obviously the events of hollow knight weren't planned but everything hallownest put Hornet through made her strong enough to change Pharloom.

[keen compass]

nah, all weavers are spiders just hollow knight world ver. of spiders

[noble thunder]

Oh that's cool

[edgy barn]

before Silksong you could just say they were baby weavers, however we now know that's wouldn't make much sense because Silksong reveals Weavers have trouble reproducing

[rancid violet]

Are they just little trained pharlids

[keen compass]

I think Herrah had no real care or intent to stand against GMS, the weavers seemed pretty satisfied with just fleeing pharloom and leaving it to its fate. Others thinking otherwise and staying ofc. So Herrah just wanting a child of noble birth in trade for her services still holds up, and I doubt she thought really that far ahead given she isn't a higher being.

[wild zinc]

Why is grandma so humanoid

She’s like the most humanoid bug/higher being in either of the games

[keen compass]

grand mother silk is a higher being and a pale being, the one who made weavers- so she just is, cuz she is

[wild zinc]

Apart from the banshee things in the mist they’re also really human for some reason

[noble thunder]

It would've been a cool twist if they were actually webspinners because they share so many more traits with them than spiders, but ig maybe team cherry could've taken inspiration from them when designing them.

[fossil ledge]

I honestly don't know why TC decided to call the new Higher Being Grand Mother lol. The grandma interpretation and association is inevitable xD

[wild zinc]

Well yeah but every other higher being has resembled a bug or some other thing

[lethal burrow]

nightmare heart

[chrome atlas]

Because she aims to be grand, and her most important motivation is being a mother

[keen compass]

its most likely purposeful lol but she is literally the GRAND Mother Silk, the higher being mother of all weavers, so- Literal Grand Mother

[wild zinc]

That falls under other thing

Not only humans have hearts

[rancid violet]

She is Hornet's grandma

[keen compass]

the radiance looks nothing like her kin, the moths, so- potato potato

[edgy barn]

Unlikely, not to mention Pharlids are wild animals while little weavers have dream nail dialogue that implies them to be sentient.

[wild zinc]

Wdym the radiance does look like a moth

[lethal burrow]

they named the path that was green greenpath and the Smith that upgrades your nail, the nailsmith.

team Cherry has never been super creative when it comes to names let's just admit

[fossil ledge]

I know why, but my point is that combining the two words changes the meaning into something else entirely. I feel like a variety of different names could've been used that don't immediately evoke the grandma association

[wild zinc]

Less moth like than the normal moths but she’s still identifiable as one

[chrome atlas]

ok tbf songclave (song + enclave) was pretty good

[lethal burrow]

I like my theory that the infection is reverting them back in some form

[edgy barn]

I liked it too but counterpoint, their little dresses

[wild zinc]

Why didn’t the radiance get a weaver to use the silkshot on the knight and shoot them on the head?

[keen compass]

these two look extremely different lol the radiance even has the same lower body structure as grand mother silk actually, complete with 'long flowing hair' and a crown, the hair doubling as her wings

[lethal burrow]

They could just be ripped up big dresses

[keen compass]

ayways i popped into this chat to talk about a lore tablet I think is very very interesting- the weavers knowing about the void lord

[lethal burrow]

also pharloom is just "far loom" but with no space and a Ph

[keen compass]

and messing with void

[fossil ledge]

The Seer is hunched over in that shot. Compare it to this image where she's flying, and the resemblance is much closer

[rancid violet]

LoomNear
LoomPhar
Loom wherever you are

[fossil ledge]

My Heart Will Go On reference

[keen compass]

A serious lore thing I dont see talked about is how the weavers know what the void lord looks like, has a nest right next to the abyss with this in it, and we know silk can act as a piggyback for the void

[rancid violet]

I haven't seen this one yet, pls tell me the cool things

[fossil ledge]

I thought Pharlid was just a Pharloom + Crawlid

[wild zinc]

Do you guys think grand mother silk and radiance yuri could work out

[lethal burrow]

tbh the name of the kingdom was probably thought of before the name of the enemy

[fossil ledge]

Probably not, both are quite oppressive and territorial

[keen compass]

this is in the weavernest in the abyss

[edgy barn]

they would both be insanely toxic

[ebon silo]

R: do you hate the void
GMS: yeah
R: okay good enough

[fossil ledge]

Isn't that just the void tendrils?

[wild zinc]

They don’t draw very well

[edgy barn]

yeah, it even gives you the journal entry

[ebon silo]

Literally it is

[fossil ledge]

It isn't very surprising that they'd know about it considering the tendrils are roused by any living being with soul in their bodies getting close

[zinc pivot]

So its a form of the void

[keen compass]

no

[zinc pivot]

Void is usually liquid

[lethal burrow]

why no

[ebon silo]

vas

[wild zinc]

What do you guys think void tastes like

[keen compass]

remember the description of the 'void idol' from HK? "Rare artifact from a time before Hallownest, its spires twined in a unified form. Contains a large amount of liquid from the Abyss, perfectly still."

[fossil ledge]

In its peaceful state, yes, but when roused by the presence of soul, aka most living beings, it rises and slashes at its surroundings

[zinc pivot]

I speculated that in the past attempt to actually make a full void beings were made by ancient civilization, but it proved far too unstable

[lethal burrow]

what of it

[rancid violet]

Dr pepper syrup

[lethal burrow]

Vegemite

[fossil ledge]

Toxic stony water

[zinc pivot]

Then thats when it is given form

[keen compass]

the description mirrors it, also void given form can only be the void lord cuz that is the void given form

the void is formless outside of the void lord

[zinc pivot]

Like drinking blackhole

[fossil ledge]

Void Lord is Void Given Focus

[lethal burrow]

I don't think that's true....

[rancid violet]

But the void lake

[edgy barn]

except we see the void tendrils before the voidheart is even formed

[wild zinc]

Yeah it does have tendrils

[rancid violet]

There's a whole ass lake of void, does liquid not count?

[noble thunder]

Except the void sea ig (as well as siblings)

[edgy barn]

as per the Shade Beast thoughts, the Void was a power without unity, then the Knight forms Voidheart and becomes the Lord of Shades

[wild zinc]

Anyone else wish the abyss in silksong was bigger

[keen compass]

the void or the abyss is formless, its just a sea of writhing mass

[ebon silo]

Do you guys know the material used for the moulds that PK used to make void be something

[keen compass]

i mean at the very least it confirms the weavers did void experiments

[rancid violet]

The kingsmolds?

[keen compass]

we know silk unlike other things has a unique interaction with void, able to kind of carry it upwards and through places

[noble thunder]

The void sea is literally described in official text from both games as "the void given form"

[lethal burrow]

you guys wanna know something nuts?

[fossil ledge]

I assumed the moulds were made of that black rock we see everywhere in the void. Perhaps the fossilised flesh or scales of those massive worms whose bodies make up a great part of the Abyss?

[ebon silo]

Yeah like it looks like it's made of steel to contain void similar designs to the steel assassins

[edgy barn]

the void tendrils specifically, not the void sea as a whole.

[ebon silo]

I was the photographer of the battle of the blackwyrm

[keen compass]

the statue in godhome of the lord of shades form- is called void given form

void given focus is the void lord

[lethal burrow]

ok you wanna know something cool

[ebon silo]

Depends on how cool it is

[rancid violet]

Gimme cool things

[fossil ledge]

It's Void Given Focus. The one you're thinking of is the Knight's form at the end of Dream No More ending

Pretty sure it's referring to the shades with Void Given Form

Because that's what they literally are

[keen compass]

wouldnt that be a bigger deal then?

[fossil ledge]

Void with the shells of pale beings as moulds

[keen compass]

that the weavers knew about vessels

[noble thunder]

I still kind of wish we had more information on all the things we saw in the void sea during the final dive. They were giving huge Void Worm vibes.

[keen compass]

before hallownest was a thing

[fossil ledge]

Not really, because many things are referred to as Void Given Form

[zinc pivot]

Those are just tentacles in free form

[fossil ledge]

Including the thrashing tendrils, Kingsmoulds, Wingmoulds, etc.

[keen compass]

i mean, hear me out- wut if the outpost or wutever below hallownest (the ancient void civilization) was actually the weaver's?

the snare setter, a weaver trap, is capable of being modified and syncing with the void to cast beings into the void when used

[fossil ledge]

It's basically guaranteed not to be, considering the architecture is entirely different from that of Weavers

[noble thunder]

The void tendrils are also described as void given form when you gather their journal entrees.

[keen compass]

silk itself can cleanly interact with the void to carry void upwards and along its strands

[rancid violet]

It is clear that there was a settlement and study of the void but none of it looks similar to weaver tech

[keen compass]

i dont think the architecture is that different from the deeper parts of the weavernest in the abyss

[whole hawk]

Too weird looking to be the weavers. Weavers are weirdly high tech with their stuff.

[fossil ledge]

This was deliberately planned for by the Snail Shaman Tribe, though. The Caretaker mentions this having been done over the course of a long time

[keen compass]

we kno the weavernests at the least predate hallownest

[keen compass]

you're right but it required a weaver's trap specifically, their tool/functions

[lethal burrow]

moss druid dialogue:
"Ahhh! Ahhh-ohhhh! The smell is right! Like the others! But very young! Oh, voice of the woods! Oh, dance of the queen! Oh... oh! Beat harder, let us hear it! Oh! Ohhhhhhhh! Mmm. Mmm! The pain... my mind aches. Why? The berries, the nasty fruits. Oh the visions!"

now doesn't that sound like nyleth and karmalita....
voice of the woods... dance of the queen...

[zinc pivot]

Its simply silk spell, and its practically a soul form
Snails are soul masters

Not to be mistaken with that bloated ground smashing bug

[ebon silo]

Why is bro moaning

[keen compass]

snails in general being soul masters is still wildly debatable

[edgy barn]

wdym

[keen compass]

most likely just shamans are

[edgy barn]

how many non-shaman snails do you know of

[zinc pivot]

The only instance of snail we have are all shamans

[rancid violet]

The moss guys give very heavy Uun vibes and I dunno what that means

[keen compass]

none, thats the funny part lol

[fossil ledge]

Left is Hallownest, right is Pharloom

[keen compass]

we kno the shamans can harness soul tho and void bs

[zinc pivot]

Hes tripping balls

[chrome atlas]

Ooh, I like this theory. Nyleth had some respect in Shellwood for giving people passage, it makes sense that she'd be worshipped/honoured, even if Moss Druid's high as a kite

[zinc pivot]

Or tripping moss berries

[queen idol]

whaaaaat???

[keen compass]

i genuinely dont think the architecture is THAT radically different if you venture further into the weavernest to the top right

[rancid violet]

Maybe the snails can use void because they can put it in their shell for later

[fossil ledge]

It is though. Distinctly different.

[keen compass]

the former just seems to be more overrun with the void's influence

[fossil ledge]

Even if it's identical in some part, that would most likely be because the Ancient Civilization had a presence there before the Weavers did

Which would add up, considering an Arcane Egg is found

[zinc pivot]

The good example of ancient architecture would actually be the abyss shriek chamber

[lethal burrow]

well, we know the Weavers were in the deepness of the abyss anyway, so it doesn't really matter which specific parts but their architecture or not. They were somewhat down there in pharloom

[noble thunder]

Snail shamans definitely have some form of connection to soul though, they were connected to the soul mass in bilewater, as well as the twisted spellcaster, the soul eater, the vengeful spirit spell, and the descending dark spell in hollow knight. They're also clearly capable of manipulating (and straight up removing) their own souls in act 3 of silksong.

[zinc pivot]

And as you can see that chamber is vastly different from weavers

[keen compass]

I think there at the least is still some kind of core connection between the weavers, the pale king, vessels, and the void lord

given at the minimum, they know about the vessels before the vessels were a thing

[fossil ledge]

None beyond what we see in Hollow Knight, as far as I'm aware

They didn't, though

Nothing suggests they did

[wild zinc]

Void lord was literally an accident as far as I’m aware

[edgy barn]

how and why

[zinc pivot]

I still believe there exist no true void lord in the past

[ebon silo]

Crackhead theory what if the arcane egg is where wyrms come from 100% real no fake

[wild zinc]

The pale king just wanted to make a prison and accidentally indirectly created a void god

[fossil ledge]

Not entirely, considering the Shade Beast seems to recognize the Knight wielding the Void Heart charm as the Lord of Shades

[zinc pivot]

Because the ancient civ wouldn’t fail otherwise with how we see our knight so cracked

[keen compass]

this is in the weavernest in the abyss

[fossil ledge]

We just discussed this image. It depicts the void tendrils

[keen compass]

not the abyss area, the weavernest itself

[edgy barn]

This is the vpid tendrils. It looks like void tendrils and gives you the void tendrils journal entry

[wild zinc]

Maybe they could see the future idk

[fossil ledge]

This isn't referring to vessels, it's referring to the void tendrils you find everywhere with a pool of void deep enough to dip in it

[keen compass]

if its just depicting tendrils, that'd make no sense given we see void in jars all around the scroll

[fossil ledge]

What do you mean?

[edgy barn]

That doesn't really mean much. Shade beast could have come up with the title on the spot.

[noble thunder]

I'd like to imagine that the pale beings are all connected to the void somehow, almost like they resist it by nature, holding things in balance and allowing kingdoms like Pharloom and Hallownest to rise.

[keen compass]

that's just the void sea tho

[fossil ledge]

They are called void tendrils in their journal entries in both games. They're also called Void Given Form in both games

[wild zinc]

The void is a pathway to abilities that some consider to be unnatural after all

[keen compass]

for where the tablet is, the area, and how the knight literally shows up to save the day not far from this location- I am pretty sure its referencing vessels

[fossil ledge]

The Shade Beast is admittedly an odd thing. It appears to be long dead yet has different dream nail dialogue depending on if you have the Void Heart or not

[wild zinc]

Also I’m glad the knight kept their individuality after becoming the shade lord

[rancid violet]

How come the vessels can use soul but hornet can't, is it a void thing

[fossil ledge]

Your first two points mean the same thing. What about the location makes you think this is referring to vessels?

[keen compass]

i'd agree if the tablet was somewhere further up in pharloom, in another weavernest

[wild zinc]

Hornet ain’t a vessel

She was never exposed to the void before being born

[edgy barn]

Hornet uses silk which is made from soul

[fossil ledge]

How so? Why would there be a tablet detailing a form of the void anywhere else in Pharloom?

[wild zinc]

Ohhhh you meant soul lol I read it as a void for some reason

Anyways yeah hornet can use soul she just forms it into silk

[keen compass]

void given form can reference the vessels, as void is formless and the lord of shades statue is called void given form as well. The tablet we find here is in a weavernest, in the abyss, right next to the pool you dive into to save lace and where the knight saves you

[rancid violet]

No worries, reading is hard

[edgy barn]

are you just straight up ignoring that the table looks like the void tendrils and gives you their entry?

[noble thunder]

I think Hornet does use soul, if I remember correctly the chapel maiden mentions "channeling soul through silk"

[rancid violet]

Right I completely missed silk being soul

[wild zinc]

Hornet literally gets silk just by hitting enemies like how the knight gets soul

[rancid violet]

Yeah I wondered what was up with that

[fossil ledge]

Lord of Shades is called Void Given Focus.

[rancid violet]

Imma dumb and silkssong has alot going on okay

[noble thunder]

We actually get to see the bodies of the void tendrils in the final dive, they look absolutely nothing like vessels

[lethal burrow]

hornet can she creates silk using the soul she gets from hitting enemies her silk is pretty much magic silk

[wild zinc]

Anyone else think it’s interesting how the knight defends Hornet in the ending by slashing the tendrils instead of like controlling them to stop

[scenic tapir]

does anyone know any lore on the ant kingdom’s relationship to the citadel? or the ant kingdom itself at all?
skarrsinger seems like she used to be very powerful, especially if hornet considers her equal to her.

[keen compass]

thats the void lord, the one that appears in the dream no more

[noble thunder]

Nah the lore is just confusing, they left a lot unanswered and I think it's meant to be that way.

[keen compass]

brb

[lethal burrow]

calm down it hasn't even been two months

[foggy fractal]

hasn't even been one month

[rancid violet]

I'm looking forward to the bell lore videos

[green charm]

Hey chat, strange question, is Mr. Mushroom a herald of apocalypses

[green charm]

It’s barely been a few weeks

[scenic tapir]

its been 19 days 😭

[noble thunder]

I'm sure we'll figure it all out eventually, but I like the idea that some questions are meant to be left unanswered. It adds a lot to the worldbuilding.

[lethal burrow]

he Harolds end of an age or times of great change.

[green charm]

Hm

[lethal burrow]

that's fine, but also Elden Ring drives people insane

[edgy barn]

Are secrets still being discovering or did people already find everything

[wild zinc]

Maybe he harolds pharloom getting better

[wary nest]

does gms use 'our', if so why

[lethal burrow]

he is the master Harold

[scenic tapir]

lmao this is correct

[lethal burrow]

idk I think it might just be the royal "we" type deal

[scenic tapir]

datamined content is being looked into i believe

has anyone needolined GMS?

[wild zinc]

We also gotta wait for the dlc also

[lethal burrow]

well, we wouldn't know if it's discovered if it's still a secret silly

[chrome atlas]

Anyone want to hear a very minor lore theory about Lost Verdania?

[lethal burrow]

sure!

[scenic tapir]

i crave ant kingdom’s lore 😭

[edgy barn]

I have heard she has no dialogue

[fossil ledge]

The Knight showing up to save Hornet wasn't planned or precedented as far as we're aware, because we know the historical events of Pharloom predate those of Hallownest, as Weavers had already arrived in Hallownest by then. This means that the vessels hadn't been created during the historical events of Pharloom, and so the Weavers had no way of knowing about them.

Not a single thing suggests Weavers messed with the void to create vessels, anywhere in the game. However, we do know they studied the void, and it would appear gave the tendrils that lash out when a living creature approaches it it the same name as others have, void given form. This lines up with the tablets visually depicting the tendrils lashing out, down to the three white eyes you see sometimes

[rancid violet]

Can confirm, am insane

[scenic tapir]

ah bummer

[scenic tapir]

can confirm too xd (+800 hours in elden ring)

[noble thunder]

I like how much emphasis is put on the difference between "void given form" and "void given focus". Both are unstoppable forces of nature, but the knight has a clear purpose while void tendrils are just kind of there... existing.

[lethal burrow]

Weakness

[foggy fractal]

I think most of the intentional content has been found
theres maybe some stuff that got left in the game thats not normally acessible
of course people have to also datamine the game as well and organize all the cut content

[scenic tapir]

crazy

[foggy fractal]

i still don't understand
what is the elden ring ???

[lethal burrow]

it's an old screenshot probably about 400 more hours added on by now, but I stopped playing because I think I literally did everything possible

[lethal burrow]

bro it's like seven things

[rancid violet]

It's an engagement ring, you're choosing which godly being to marry

[fossil ledge]

Yes, they have notable differences. The tendrils are simpler than even beasts or plants, and the constructs are magic automatons and nothing more. The Knight and the other vessels, however, are a living beings with a will

[scenic tapir]

fair enough honestly

[gray swallow]

Is it possible to kill the assistant guy??? I feel like he should have died or does he just have an exorbitant amount of health

[lethal burrow]

I think the type of storytelling the souls games employee has a bandwidth on how complicated the stories told within can get given the format

[wild zinc]

Im still a pale king believer tbh he hadn’t killed all those kids pharloom would’ve been cooked

[fossil ledge]

He regenerates very quickly. Spam poisoned tools on him and he goes down in a snap of your fingers

Sawblades and tacks especially melt his health bar

[gray swallow]

Ok thanks

[lethal burrow]

#sk-help

[noble thunder]

Which is kind of ironic, they were specifically supposed to have "no will to break" but the void has it's own thing going on.

[rancid violet]

Pale King ain't a good guy but he was trying his best to find a solution to the sun being angry everyone went underground with him

[fossil ledge]

Indeed. If only the Pale King had caught on earlier and ceased his obsession...

It's part of the tragic trope of knowing the future but obsessed with its outcome, you make it happen in the path you took to avoid it

[chrome atlas]

fuck yeah

So Verdania used to be a reasonable kingdom that 'collapsed' due to the Citadel, with the Yaoi Princes being its last leaders. Their rule was ordained by them killing something called the Palestag, which has mythical properties and lives in perfect harmony with nature. Shellwood has a similar entity — Nyleth, who tended to the forests and allowed for easier passage for pilgrims.

Theory time: Verdania used to be bigger, encompassing the right-hand half of the map (including Far Fields and Bilewater — Bilewater is important). Even when the Citadel was constructed, and dumped waste into Bilewater, the Palestag was able to keep things relatively safe and clean, until it got hunted by the Yaoi Boys. That secured their rule, but would mean that Bilewater got polluted and diseased, and that Verdania would dwindle.

It's mostly based on vibes, but the idea of personal gain coming at an ecological cost is one that's common in Silksong (Bellways being plastic wastes; Wormways getting gooped due to reckless science), and adds an extra layer of tragedy to the Green Prince and his self-hate

[wild zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/hollow-knight-bug-smart-the-pale-king-pale-king-gif-5731610762789034239

[fossil ledge]

Real

[edgy barn]

,,,you know, I have always said that PK couldn't possibly have figured out the whole Voidheart ordeal but Hornet seems to have somehow known that the Knight could unify the void

[noble thunder]

Depending on the ending, I think things turned out better thanks to all his tomfoolery, the radiance would've reared it's fluffy head eventually no matter what, the vessels' existence was probably for the best.

[edgy barn]

and like, how?

[fossil ledge]

I believe the Pale King could've done more if he wasn't obsessed with the outcome, but that is debatable

[lethal burrow]

tbh he didn't make what happened happen through his actions to avoid it. He just sort of couldn't avoid it with his actions.

I'm pretty sure, even if he never did the vessel thing things would be pretty much equally fucked

[rancid violet]

Yaoi boys causing ecological collapse was not on my bingo card

[wild zinc]

Kinda makes sense tbh

[fossil ledge]

Ultimately yes, because it is his creation of the vessels that led to one finally putting an end to what otherwise would've been an inevitable win for Radiance

[dapper willow]

hi hi
I'm curious about all the dialouge Ballador has

[wild zinc]

Like verdania isn’t just messed up it’s gone gone so it makes sense a higher being was keeping it alive

[fossil ledge]

This is true, it was screwed either ways, at least his actions bought his people a little more time

[lethal burrow]

cool theory, although I do think it's more implied that the citadel encroached under the rule of the princess, so therefore they killed the stag before it all.

[limpid summit]

Which parts specifically

Off the top of my head he talks about how the Conductors wrestled the rule of the Citadel from the Weavers, but it was as much prison for them as it was kingdom

[dapper willow]

the parts that I didn't see
So most of it I guess
I only visited him twice and I don't know what interactions he has

[limpid summit]

They still did commit atrocities

Ok I can pull it up
He doesn’t have much

[dapper willow]

future dlc content

[fossil ledge]

But my point is that his plan was uniquely focused on his offspring and the void binding the Radiance, and not finding alternative options. Kingsoul already existed by then, and the White Lady seems to have the suspicion something was hidden inside it. Perhaps without the obsession the Pale King might have noticed it too and acted on it

[limpid summit]

Your chambers are surely grand, sir bug, but it is plain to see you are no sovereign here.

Is our state so bare, pilgrim?... "By the will of the Conductors," we once boomed, and this Citadel shook at our decree.
But the words... How hollow they echoed. The mantle of rule, claimed greedily from Pharloom's fading first children, those bitter Weavers... it was yoke, not crown.
Now, in our Citadel's silence, we share their truth. Only one monarch's claws ever clutched this kingdom, though we raised our voices to cry otherwise.
Would you see her, pilgrim? Up there at our Citadel's crown? Reach those heights we'd hoped to hide and bow before this land's true ruler.

Hornet: In time near, sir bug, I shall indeed climb to meet your monarch...

He’s essentially saying

Both the Weavers and the Choir went to great lengths to try and power trip in Pharloom but GMS was always there as the true ruler even while she slept

[rancid violet]

The real question is how did the pale King's tiny little body get into the white lady

[noble thunder]

I do wonder, was the pale stag an actual pale being?
I know it's actually a clover stag that's really old, but it's clearly got some kind of magic going on.
It's also not influential in the same way GS, PK, and the White Lady were, but it's sort of like the natural equivalent to their station as the leaders of civilized kingdoms.

[faint kite]

Yall think it’s a coincidence conductor ballador has the same sillouette as the unravelled?

[limpid summit]

Yeah that’s the conductor’s uniform

[fossil ledge]

It's not a coincidence, the Unravelled seems to be partially composed of a discarded Conductor's garb

[limpid summit]

The unraveled conductor corpse might be “conductor mizello” who we hear getting painful surgery

[edgy barn]

This should hit hard but kind of falls flat for me

[fossil ledge]

This is indeed a good question, though probably not for this chat xD

[waxen forum]

Karmelita’s spinning aerial attack is identical to beast pogo, including the bounce when it hits you

This probably has lore implications

[limpid summit]

I get what you mean

[dapper willow]

the age old debate
Also I do not think the palestag had any pale stuff going on with it

[limpid summit]

The conductors have fallen so far

[chrome atlas]

I think it's in that weird category with Nyleth and Unn, where it's maybe not a Higher Being but it exists in ecological harmony and has some control over the environment around it

[chrome atlas]

the lore is that sawblade go spinny

[limpid summit]

Palestag probably wasn’t a pale being we don’t really know what was up with it it seems like a nature spirit type

[fossil ledge]

Hornet heavily implies this stag was a myth, much like the rest of the embellished memories of Verdania. Likely just an old or particularly big stag

[tiny socket]

Unn is a higher being aren’t they?

[limpid summit]

Nyleth is a plant controlling bug like Isma probably a bit stronger than Palestag

Unn is definitely a higher being

[noble thunder]

I think the unraveled took form within a conductor's garb, specifically the one from the conductor in that one (nightmare fuel) psalm cylinder.

[edgy barn]

I mean the part about GMS.

[tiny socket]

Unn dreamed green path into existence

[limpid summit]

Basically all but confirmed

[limpid summit]

I guess the closest analogy in that sense would be Seer talking about Radiance but yeah the themes are all over the place

GMS doesn’t have the same aura Rad did

[dapper willow]

She did not farm enough aura

[chrome atlas]

Yeah, the other theory is that the Palestag was just a mythologised wild animal, but I think that Nature Spirit Keeping The Kingdom Together makes for a more fun theory :P

[waxen forum]

I desperately need more crest lore, I want dlc that lets us see and fight all the guys we claim crests from

I want to fight the giant snail shaman

[dapper willow]

we need more charm lore
Crest lore
Soul lore
Magic lore
Everything lore!!!

still waiting for the lore update to the original hk

[fossil ledge]

This is fair, but this is implied to have kind of already been the case with the Green Princes, just like Crust King Khan, Skarrsinger Karmelita and Nyleth. Their power was directly tied to their realm somehow, and GMS' interference caused all of these to wane and/or die. The Green Princes even tried to negotiate with the Citadel to prevent their fate, but the Citadel, despite pretending otherwise, was also powerless against it. So they accepted the Prince's bargain but couldn't deliver themselves, which the Green Prince mentions when you talk with him

[dapper willow]

it makes sense for Khan and nyleth

[fossil ledge]

We know quite a bit about these already. What is it you wish to know about them?

[dapper willow]

MORE
Always more
For that is the point of the lore seekers like us

[chrome atlas]

I'm still not convinced that the Citadel didn't just double cross the Princes tbh

[dapper willow]

they did

[fossil ledge]

Unfortunately we have no direct evidence to show us what they might have done, besides what the Green Prince tells us. We do know what happened to the Khan and Karmelita, and to a certain extent Nyleth

[noble thunder]

The psalm cylinder found in the whiteward really does add to the horror of the area, the conductor is screaming his lungs out in the background, and we already know from the slab that people who refuse to be revived get punished for it. Imagine being forced to undergo surgery after surgery, prolonging your life so you can continue to toil away as your body breaks down. There's no anesthesia, so you just have to deal with it while the surgeons rip you open each time.

[lethal burrow]

i don't remember who that is

[fossil ledge]

The Whiteward psalm cylinder seemed to me a recording of a bug explaining a procedure while operating on a lucid patient

[lethal burrow]

oh the big guy in high halls

[dapper willow]

guy that sucks in silk after the hell arena in high halls

[edgy barn]

Hollow Knight: Re-Told.
Changelog:
-Little Weavers have been removed from the gane
-All mentions of Herrah being a beast have been replaced with mentions of her being a weavrr
-Herrah has been redisigned to look closer to a weaver.
Price: 99,99$

[dapper willow]

Hollow remaster

[fossil ledge]

Well obviously, no one's gonna say no to more! I was just wondering if there was something you'd like to know more about that we could discuss here

[noble thunder]

It pretty much is from what I can tell, it was a conductor's final surgery, they could have died in the process or they could have died afterwards. Either way, it was absolutely horrifying when I first discovered it.

[bright oyster]

from the subreddit

[dapper willow]

Direct confirations about theories would be nice
Also more info about what soul really is, besides a vague life force kinda thing. How much can the bugs use their soul magic? Does it replenish without the baths and such? Why do the protags get more soul when striking(probably will never be answered), is there a higher being for the soul? More ellaboration for crests
There is just so much to ask.

[fossil ledge]

My question is if the conductor is the one being experiment on, or if they're the one doing the experimenting

[dapper willow]

link?

that is some high quality geniology or someting

[bright oyster]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HollowKnight/comments/1nnnn3o/speculative_creation_chart_for_the_world_of/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[dapper willow]

man I can't read the text

[edgy barn]

It has questionable choices but I gotta conmemorate the effort.

[fossil ledge]

We know quite a bit about soul. Besides it being a life force, it's also a source of powerful magic, and appears to be present in the very air itself. I guess it could be compared to the force, in a way? Or other kinds of magic systems. The pink crystals in the Crystal Peaks seem to be able to connected to it as well, considering the charms made of the material allow the wielder to focus soul in different ways as lenses would, and that the citizens of Hallownest were mining them as replacements for the much more toxic direct use of soul

[dapper willow]

yupp

[lethal burrow]

why is green prince next to mantis?

[dapper willow]

why stillkin next to unn

[gray iris]

i wish i was working in the citadel so my they can put gears in my body to operate machines i would be like r2d2

[chrome atlas]

I think Unn and Nyleth are considered the same type of thing, so OP's considering Stilkin and Mosskin as both 'nature spirit created these things'

[dapper willow]

mechanicus grindset

[fossil ledge]

Most bugs we know can't use soul for anything deliberately. Aside of pale beings, Weavers can use it to spin their silk, while Snail Shamans can use their spiral focus to cast distinct spells. It would seem other bugs can steal it, but most succumb to its toxic effects. Exceptions are certain scholars of the Soul Sanctum and Groal the Great, though it seems they suffer from hallucinogenic effects related to the soul's previous owners.

I wonder if bugs with greater willpower and possibly combat prowess are able to unknowingly harvest soul from their opponents, which contributes to their extended lifespan. Unlikely, but it's an interesting idea

[gray iris]

so groal is like hk2 version of soul master cool

maybe he is soul masters dad

[fossil ledge]

It does seem like some plants are able to absorb soul from the environment too, which is an interesting notion

[fossil ledge]

Pretty much, yes.

Only that the stiltkin don't seem to be able to use soul themselves

[dapper willow]

I think that potentially all bugs can use soul with the right training, the culture is just not around to facilitate that in either game, so we only see adverse effects on regular people who use it incorrectly

[fossil ledge]

They rely on firing darts filled with the corrosive substance found in bugs in Bilewater, and wooden stakes and traps

[gray iris]

that is a lot stronger than soul

they done need soul in bilewayer but groal do to fight grand mother silk it is like a counter build

[edgy barn]

Unn and Nyleth seem to me like completely different kind of beings. They both created a lush green area but through very different means and like, one is a giant slug, the other is a plant

[chrome atlas]

We see some snail shaman spell recipes, each of which call for pilgrim souls to be prepared, and which seem more ritualistic in nature than just 'big blast of an angry soul'. It's possible that those are more the kinds of thing that Groal was working with, and that the reason why he didn't turn into Soul Sanctum goo is that he's smart enough to pace himself and limit his combat spell uses to just a simple spell powered by the souls he got from the strung-up pilgrims

[fossil ledge]

This is hard to say. Perhaps it requires a similar willpower to that found in bugs with greatly extended lifespans. The toxicity of soul use appears to be the main reason the Pale King ended up stepping in to stop the Soul Sanctum, besides the atrocities committed there