sk-lore

[fossil ledge]

I mean, it's literally in the description lol

[valid compass]

not silk powers, but extending lifespan

[quartz flicker]

The Whiteward attempted to prolong a Conductor's life.

[valid compass]

i think he wants to know about conductors specifically

[fossil ledge]

Oh, conductors in general?

[novel eagle]

wait a sec is that guy supposed to be that statue who wants to hear the conductors melody ;-;?
Or is just some random conductor

[ancient dock]

Conductors kept the chamber to GMS right?

So basically Soul Master

[fossil ledge]

They are the leaders of the Citadel, the ones writing up all those decrees found everywhere. Seems some of them knew about GMS and the lies they told others

[ancient dock]

Soul master wanted to use soul to fight against infection so maybe a bit different

[valid compass]

the conductors are a caste of bugs who all got the same costume. the statue represents the conductor caste. its the same for the other two statues.

same for the architect, the statue meant to represent the architects. its older than the architect merchant we meet

[fossil ledge]

Based on the size of the forum, there probably were a number of them. Perhaps akin to senators

[novel eagle]

It's very sad hearing the surgery tape

like noone thought to put an end to that shit

[ancient dock]

What tape?

[novel eagle]

noo we must prove ourselves to the grand mother

[novel eagle]

basically psalm that lets you haer the surgery a conductor went through

[valid compass]

oh yeah the conductor from whom we learn the memory from says he tried to preach about the powers that existed before gms

[edgy nebula]

isnt it the surgery the condcutor performed

[fossil ledge]

I don't think any of them were trying to prove themselves. My guess is they were trying to see if they could unlink their power from GMS to escape her inflence

[novel eagle]

either that or trying to get her approval

[valid compass]

hes the conductor bruh not the surgeon

[novel eagle]

like SEE US be proud of US

If all the previous rulers had teamed up , I wonder if they could've taken on GMS..

[fossil ledge]

The few that know about GMS don't seem to think very highly of her, though. They see her more as an immovable power that just exists there

[edgy nebula]

i dont think theyd be able to, neither of them are really godlike like gms and they dont have enough power id say

[fossil ledge]

What power they had was given to them by GMS, so it would've been like throwing eggs at a rock

[novel eagle]

What

[valid compass]

holy shit i thought this was just another case of trying to extend lifespan, but trying to remove silk from your body to break free of the influence comes in line with what the conductor was talking about

[edgy nebula]

i dont think so

[ancient dock]

That makes sense

[novel eagle]

she killed every ruler after she had invaded pharloom
she didnt give any of them powers or let them stay in power

[edgy nebula]

didnt gms appear fter the three

[fossil ledge]

Oh, you mean the rulers of the other kingdoms?

[novel eagle]

ye i meant those

[ancient dock]

He was trying to break influence over GMS

[edgy nebula]

yeah khann, nyleth, karmelita

[novel eagle]

The clover kings

[fossil ledge]

Potentially yes, but going against a higher being is very difficult, even for other god-like creatures

[edgy nebula]

them too yeah

[mighty cobalt]

what happened to the knight 😭

[novel eagle]

steel people are soo stuck-up

they dont care about anyone else except themselves

[fossil ledge]

The issue is that by the time the leaders realized what was going on, they had already been significantly weakened by GMS, and likely would've lost even if they did band together

[edgy nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/-gif-7240636

[ancient dock]

Leaders as in the conductors?

[novel eagle]

i cant be certain but they for sure knew some of what was happening to pharloom they could've lent them tehir help

[fossil ledge]

Leaders as in those of the other kingdoms, like the Green Princes, Karmelita, Khann, Nyleth

[valid compass]

combined with the fact that the conductor we meet got a silk string up his ahh like glucose, it looks like the surgery done a number on him and now he needs a supply of silk to survive because no silk in his body

[edgy nebula]

the steel faction favors chaos over order, they wouldnt have done anything

[fossil ledge]

The Conductors never stood a chance and they knew it, which is why I believe they were desperately experimenting to see if they could separate themselves from GMS

[edgy nebula]

that is if they even visited pharloom

[novel eagle]

too bad we didnt see the lifeblood higher being

would've been pretty cool

[edgy nebula]

true

[humble charm]

They're just a bug given an expanded lifespan via Silk, but they're not built for that and break down, for lack of better terms. They're on what amounts to hospice care

[fossil ledge]

The silk life support could just be to heal himeself or at least keep himself alive, as we know that silk, generated from soul, has life-extending properties for mortal bugs

[valid compass]

the lore keeps getting more and more interesting

[fossil ledge]

Divine bugs can outright regenerate entirely using soul, as we see both the Knight and Hornet do

[ancient dock]

Well we know what happened to the Green princes so I doubt they could have done much, the only one who I can see doing anything is Karmelita and Khan

[fossil ledge]

True, but keep in mind all of this happened when they were already greatly weakened by GMS

[valid compass]

i always wondered what came with the conductors job that he wished he didn't took it

[fossil ledge]

That said, I personally believe they still would've lost if they banded together before being weakened, unless they also conspired with the snail shamans

[edgy nebula]

i feel like khann relied on water for his coral to flourish and gms somehow took that away (i dont have any evidence for this, im talking out of my ass)

[ancient dock]

They likely would have resorted to void so bad idea

[fossil ledge]

Knowingly luring bugs to the Citadel and lying to them about it despite know about GMS

If I had to guess

[lethal burrow]

isn't it only hornet that specifically generates her magic silk from soul? Besides maybe grand mother silk

[fossil ledge]

I mean, the void itself seems to be the only known way to take down a higher being, unless another higher being gets involved.

[humble charm]

The Clover Dancers valued peace and tried to make peace. They cast the Green Prince's lover in freaking iron to make the Dancers as their answer to peace.

[ancient dock]

Well when you think about it his army is completely dead when we see them and frozen so may be some truth to it

[valid compass]

theres so much to know about conductors and then we got seekers who are just hoarders with no life

[fossil ledge]

All silk we see comes from GMS, which presumably is generated through soul

Except for the silk used by creatures like pharlids or by Weavers and Hornet

[edgy barn]

The coral is the one thing that survived though

[edgy nebula]

not much of it to be fair, and many of the species died out due to the lack of water

[ancient dock]

They probably should have tried looking for another one

[edgy nebula]

i cant really think of why else he wouldve died sitting on his throne surrounded by karakas

[spark valve]

the shaman plan was good and would have worked without a hitch if it wasn't for lace

[fossil ledge]

They were all hybernating, waiting for conditions to improve so they could wake up again

[spark valve]

no they're dead

[edgy nebula]

theyre dead

[fossil ledge]

They are now, yes

[lethal burrow]

Hornet would've died, but yeah

[fossil ledge]

But they they died waiting

[lethal burrow]

Bro, they're in tombs

[edgy nebula]

we dont know if they were hibernating though, khann's dream nail dialogue doesnt hint towards it

[fossil ledge]

Krust King Khann literally says this dude, not sure what else to say

[valid compass]

watcher at the edge

[edgy barn]

I mean I don't see why the Knight wouldn't save her this time

[ancient dock]

I think drought kill them

[humble charm]

Hornet shouldn't have let herself be grabbed, they'd say, and secondly, the shamans wouldn't have cared much.

[fossil ledge]

It pretty much did. Though the drought is heavily implied to be caused by GMS interferring with the order of things there

[ancient dock]

Nah their plan pretty much made it so Void started going berserk in Pharloom they would have doomed it earlier

[edgy nebula]

i think the idea of a drought is the only real explanation since theres no skirmish or hints of battle, but we have no clue how the drought wouldve occurred

[spark valve]

because lace fell in too

if lace didn't fall in, there wouldn't have been a problem

[edgy nebula]

it's safe to say the slab bugs would be easily crushed by the karak forces and i dont think gms went down with a bucket to get it all either

[ancient dock]

Void would have been a issue regardless of lace or not

[humble charm]

No

[spark valve]

no it would not

[humble charm]

Void was only an issue because Lace fell in and GMS freaked out trying to save her daughter

[spark valve]

lace falling in is the only reason she fought so hard to stay alive if lace hadn't fallen in she would've just died pretty quick

[humble charm]

Void then followed the strings GMS threw out to try and save Lace and wrecked Pharloom

[edgy nebula]

styx is many a men

[valid compass]

it wouldnt be a problem if gms didnt care about her daughter then. the blame game always starts from the shamans because they dont even tell hornet about what their plan actually does.

[humble charm]

They... Do, actually.

And as they said, she really should have known their proclivities.

[spark valve]

they tell her what the plan is they just don't mention the specific mechanism which isn't that important for her to know

[humble charm]

Yup

[spark valve]

and which they assume she already knows

[valid compass]

???

[fossil ledge]

It's likely if Hornet wasn't taken by surprise, GMS wouldn't have had an opening to retaliate and thus Lace wouldn't have had to interfere

[ancient dock]

Did the quest so I didn’t see them

[humble charm]

Yeah, I think if Hornet had expected the GIANT HOLE TO HELL to appear she wouldn't have been grabbed

[valid compass]

not specifying that they will be fucking with the void is a really important detail to be left out wtf are you on about what the fuck do you mean they assume they already know

are you fucking kidding me

[spark valve]

have you even played the game

[olive glen]

So how did the Citadel decide if you went to the Slab or Underworks if you did a wrongdoing in their eyes?

[vale plover]

Does plasmodium have a god like the radiance?

[fossil ledge]

We don't really know

[ancient dock]

All carekeeper said is that he plans to make a trap he doesn’t go into specifics

[fossil ledge]

Unfortunately nothing about Lifeblood we learned in Silksong suggests anything of the sort

[humble charm]

I think some people point to the creature you see for like ten whole frames in HK as the Lifeblood's 'higher being'

[charred nimbus]

You can see a pretty huge lifeblood thing secret in original Hollow knight

[fossil ledge]

Only Hornet commenting on some similarities between lifeblood and the infection

[spark valve]

You seem displeased, Old One. We only did as you asked, yes? The snare is sprung, the creature consumed.[Hornet]:You bound it to that void![NPC]:Don't play daft. You should well know our family's fixations. Surely you had a hunch? How else could we hope to trap one of your pale kin? Or see her consumed with such insatiable efficiency?

[vale plover]

Wich needle is better hornet's or the knight

[fossil ledge]

Which we already knew from Hollow Knight

[edgy nebula]

the slab are for people whove "sinned", the underworks is just where the underpaid workers reside

[olive glen]

Oh I see

[ancient dock]

This was after though

[vale plover]

Could you tell me about it?

[edgy nebula]

the underworkers are stuck with the dangerous jobs and get paid nothing and have to pay to sit at benches, it exists to be a metaphor for shitty work conditions

[valid compass]

great she got tricked

[spark valve]

it demonstrates that they thought it was obvious

no she didn't get tricked

[charred nimbus]

i don't remember much, but i think it was on pantheon

[charred nimbus]

i don't remember if it was during a intersection or after unlocking the bindings door

[lethal burrow]

we're not saying it's reasonable for them to have assumed she would've known, but that is what they assumed.

[fossil ledge]

The Knight has a nail, while Hornet has a needle. Each has its strengths and weaknesses. I'd say that the Knight's pure nail is probably stronger overall, but I don't think Hornet's hivesteel needle is that far behind either

[valid compass]

i cannot deal with the void agenda for my life bro

[candid briar]

WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR HOLLOW KNIGHT
WHAT DOES IT MEAN
THE PLASMIUM
THE LIFEBLOOD
THE INFECTION

Is this silksong or hollow knight lore im not sure

[spark valve]

it doesn't really mean anything for hk

[ancient dock]

She doesn’t know the full intent so yes she was tricked

[humble charm]

Oh sweet crap that is not good

[spark valve]

google what a trick is

maybe google the definition of deception

[humble charm]

To trick someone literally requires deceiving them by intent

[charred nimbus]

Point: if the snail shamans were indeed tricking Hornet they wouldn't help saving Pharloom in the end

[edgy nebula]

trick definitions to add to the discussion

[fossil ledge]

Hornet is noticing similarities with the infection in lifeblood. One could take from this that lifeblood is the essence of some higher being behind it, like Radiance with the infection

[ancient dock]

They only told her a Half truth so yes she was tricked

[raw pewter]

I mean it would have been nice for them to mention a certain thing... Oh I don't know, like the bloody void! You know! The all destructive force of pure darkness?!

[candid briar]

i feel like it does somewhat matter
what are the odds the radiance's method of infection seems to be the exact same as how the lifeblood functions

though its unclear what is inside the lifeblood

[spark valve]

please learn basic concepts

[lethal burrow]

it wasn't a trick

it was miscommunication

[foggy fractal]

speaking of this
is there any significance of both the snail shamans and the mask maker in silksong calling Hornet "Old One" captilized and all

[valid compass]

why is hornet mad that the shamans bound her to that void?

[spark valve]

I mean she's directly descended from a god

[humble charm]

The snails literally say "Why are you surprised, what did you expect us to do?"

[fossil ledge]

I believe it is in regard to her Weaver heritage

[spark valve]

please just read the text it's not that complicated

they thought she knew what they were doing, they were mistaken

[candid briar]

i feel like there was that theory of it being related to a higher being due to (HK spoiler) ||in the abyss and in godhome, we see some sort of massive creature watching us when lifeblood is involved||

this likely leans into it but i wonder what it means for the radiance and whatever that creature is to have such huge similarities

[spark valve]

that's not a trick

[ancient dock]

They don’t go into specifics so yes it was

[spark valve]

you don't know what deception is

[valid compass]

the shamans were cunning. they knew hornet wouldn't agree to such plan if they explicitly said the details

[spark valve]

citation needed

[ancient dock]

Deception is a trick no?

[spark valve]

they only even came up with the plan at her behest

[fossil ledge]

Well, probably a higher being from the dream realm if I had to guess

[lethal burrow]

perhaps.

This is opportunity interpretation, I suppose

[raw pewter]

You would think for them to plan something that big they would have talked more about the plan

[spark valve]

there is no deception

[fossil ledge]

The Lifeblood Beast does somewhat fit this description, so

[lethal burrow]

what percentage of God is hornet? at least 50% because pale king but how about harrah and the weavers?

[valid compass]

please ping when you reply

[charred nimbus]

I tought weavers weren't gods

[humble charm]

She is half higher being

[fossil ledge]

Well, Weavers are of an immortal or higher caste but not higher beings themselves

[raw pewter]

Weavers are not gods, I would say they are more alike to the Shamans

[humble charm]

She is half Weaver

Weavers are - yes, more akin to the Shamans

[cloud mesa]

weavers were given magic powers by a god tho

they’re like a little god

[fossil ledge]

From what we gather in Silksong though, she is a developing god. One with the potential to become a higher being, but not one yet

[ancient dock]

Weavers are creations of GMS

[humble charm]

They're more like Gandalf

[cloud mesa]

yeah!!!

[lethal burrow]

well, not fully? but maybe partial.

[dull vine]

I mean maybe like 75%? From First Sinner’s cutscene we learn that the Weavers (or at least the grown up ones) came from the silk strands. Those silk strands being from GMS. So therefore, it’d make sense if the weavers were part GMS and therefore part god.
It’s different to the other bugs. They’re only being controlled, puppeted with the string. In this case, the silk actually gave them higher life or something

[ancient dock]

Essentially just evolved Aphids

[charred nimbus]

Weavers aren't direct descendants of GMS tho, they were just created by her if i remember correctly

[knotty dome]

Wasn’t hornet confirmed to be exactly half weaver?

[lethal burrow]

right, but what grace does that Grant them?

[fossil ledge]

It would seem however, that the Weaver's powers are directly related to GMS

[knotty dome]

So half god

[lethal burrow]

We're not arguing how much of a weaver she is though

[cloud mesa]

i feel like hornet is at least like 2/3 god

[dull vine]

Higher intelligence and life?

[lethal burrow]

we're arguing how much "God" a Weaver is

[humble charm]

It grants them a form of immortality and the capacity to work Silk

[raw pewter]

We're discussing whether Weavers are god or not

[humble charm]

No

[dull vine]

Yea or like 75%

[fossil ledge]

Weavers are not gods

[humble charm]

Weavers aren't gods.

[ancient dock]

We see first sinner evolve from a Alphid so no

[knotty dome]

Oh didn’t they simply evolve from pharlids

[cloud mesa]

they’re god ish

[lethal burrow]

well, they're clearly not full gods but it's about amount

[humble charm]

Weavers are just very powerful bugs

[lethal burrow]

Evolve is too much of an naturalistic word for it

[charred nimbus]

In the game there's a cutscene of Weavers being created, they are just normal Pharloom spiders that were transformed, granting intelligence and powers

[humble charm]

Uplifting is the correct phrase

[lethal burrow]

Ascending is also acceptable

[charred nimbus]

Pharlids#

[dull vine]

They were given enhanced abilities from a pale being, therefore making them a little pale being

[dull vine]

Well isn’t ascending the process of becoming a god in Hollow Knight?

[knotty dome]

Oh that would explain why not all pharlids are weavers

[charred nimbus]

When a higher power gives you power, that doesn't make you directly a god

[raw pewter]

That's exactly my point, I see them to be more similar to The Shamans rather than higher beings, people who have ability to control certain powers

[dull vine]

GMS sort of rapidly sped up their ascension

[humble charm]

By this logic, every enemy we face in the Citadel, as well as every Pilgrim, is also 'part pale being'.

[cloud mesa]

like a smidge god

[fossil ledge]

I guess a good comparison to weavers would be moths. Would members of the Moth Tribe be considered gods?

[ancient dock]

Not a higher being

[fossil ledge]

They can manipulate essence and are very long lived

Yet I don't think anyone would consider them gods

[dull vine]

No I said that it’s different. The pilgrims and others are only being controlled. The weavers were specifically granted strength from GMS

[cloud mesa]

everyone is hollow knight seems long lived ngl

[charred nimbus]

I don't think a god giving you powers to serve then makes you also a god

[humble charm]

You know you've just made me realize something

[cloud mesa]

if u have enough aura u become immortal in hollow knight

[knotty dome]

Aside from gods and half gods what else there have nigh-immortality

[fossil ledge]

This seems to be tied to willpower it seems

At least in great part

[cloud mesa]

let’s count en

[lethal burrow]

Well, the word has a literal meaning, and a mythological meaning.

[cloud mesa]

zameer

[ancient dock]

Guess they were granted silk

[cloud mesa]

that girl in the city of tears

[ancient dock]

Which changed them

[cloud mesa]

ogrim

[fossil ledge]

Beings with godly resonance, as described by the Godmasters it would seem

[raw pewter]

Grimm is a vessel for the Nightmare Heart so of course he's long lived

[fossil ledge]

These would be most bugs you find that have unnaturally long lifespans

[round adder]

Isn't there some text somewhere that says "She called us her children... divine... she lied", saying how the weavers aren't divine / godly

[knotty dome]

So having 99 babies is enough to warrant a godly resonance huh.

[ancient dock]

The nightmare heart is a higher being grim is just a vessel when you think about it

[raw pewter]

Yes, that's what I said

[cloud mesa]

bardoon is long lived too

[fossil ledge]

You mean Flukemarm? I think it has more to do with combat prowess and willpower. Though ultimately yes, it's likely her role as hive, queen and mother that granted her these

[knotty dome]

Vessel of the nightmare flame or the troupe in general?

[ancient dock]

Nightmare flame

[fossil ledge]

There's no difference between the two. The Troupe Master Grimm is all in one

White Lady confirms as much

[round adder]

That's right, I couldn't remember where I read it, but that was the reason that first sinner "sinned" right? Because they thought they were part god but were lied to by GMS

[fossil ledge]

The Grimm Troupe doesn't disappear after you defeat Nightmare King Grimm, it's just all stored away inside Grimmchild now xD

[ancient dock]

I’m sure the Troupe were all normal bugs at one point that got altered

[humble charm]

The Pilgrims literally have Silk.

[knotty dome]

Grimm is not one same person yes? It keeps changing after the little flying thing collects enough flames?

[cloud mesa]

anyway more aura the less u age

[humble charm]

Also, Silk, Soul, Essence, Root... All of these are connected.

[fossil ledge]

Some of them were at least, yes. The Grimmsteeds, Nymm and Divine, if I had to guess

[lethal burrow]

did grandmother silk imprison the first sinner or did the Weavers?

[raw pewter]

I feel like it was GMS

[fossil ledge]

Yes, but this vessel seems to be directly created by the Nightmare Heart, so it might as well be

[knotty dome]

Didn’t the seamstress confirm that the making silk within a bugs shell is a rare talent in pharloom at least. Wouldn’t make sense for random pilgrims to have em

[humble charm]

They have it, didn't say they could wield it

[spark valve]

random pilgrims have it but they don't produce it, it's just in the environment

[cloud mesa]

they have silk but it isn’t built in

[spark valve]

producing silk is a weaver thing

[fossil ledge]

Soul and Essence are both lights. Silk and Root are just variants of Soul, in a way

[knotty dome]

Have it in what way? Just from other sources or from thei own shell?

[raw pewter]

I think the First Sinner is the first to ever question and doubt GMS, thus her being the first sinner and what follows are the other Weavers began to doubt GMS too

[cloud mesa]

hornet takes soul from bugs and turns it into silk

[round adder]

They couldn't make it but they started being born with silk already in their shells, at least as I interpereted it

[knotty dome]

Is it because of GMS why silk has so many properties or does silk is just a wonder substance?

[fossil ledge]

I believe she's just harvesting GMS' silk from them, no?

[edgy barn]

Silk is made from Soul

So it inherently has magical properties

[ancient dock]

I think they said some pilgrims inherited it from ancestry but they lost the ability

[cloud mesa]

like soul is cotton and silk is string yk?

[edgy nebula]

the grey memento description is real curious, this seems to confirm some hibernation was involved with khann definitely

[spark valve]

no they didn't

pilgrims aren't descended from weavers

[fossil ledge]

They never had the ability. It's always been pilgrims being injected with GMS' silk

[round adder]

But what about normal bugs that haven't been corrupted, like the worms and whatnot

[humble charm]

Hornet says that the reason pilgrims come to Pharloom is because the Silk in them is being "sought" by GMS' Silk all through Pharloom

[chrome atlas]

You can get silk from attacking the explicitly unaffected roaches in Nameless Town, so it's more likely it's just taking soul and making it into silk

[edgy nebula]

or some other thing, im not the best at deciphering lore

[spark valve]

the pilgrimage happened before the haunting

[fossil ledge]

These are injected with silk directly by GMS, when you see those silk threads descend from above in combat rooms and such

[lethal burrow]

that's true, but also we know for a time that the Weavers betrayed grandmother silk and acted as gods of their own to the people of the land.
Perhaps the first sinner is a guilty of trying to break their lie and revealed to the people that there's nothing more than common bugs that were once raised up?

This isn't even the interpretation I tend to lean towards, but I just feel like there has to be a way to solidly land on one over the other beyond vibes

[fossil ledge]

That's what I was saying earlier, yes

[cloud mesa]

doesn’t the dialogue with the dude who gives u the drifters cloak say all this

[humble charm]

Hornet was explicitly using Silk attacks in Hollow Knight, in Hallownest, incredibly far away from GMS and her nonsense, was she harvesting it there too? 😛

[edgy nebula]

yeah but i didnt realize it was outright confirmed by the game

[teal drift]

I think first sinner sinned against the weavers by pretty much saying they werent divine, not against gms. The weavers made the citadel not gms and first sinner is locked in the citadel.

[fossil ledge]

This is true, I hadn't thought of that. Does this make sense, though? Cause the Knight was described as an eater of soul, likely because of its void nature. Can any being with a higher focus take soul from the environment, then?

[spark valve]

the only karak hibernating is the watcher at the edge

[teal drift]

Why did the weavers imprison their best boss fight?

[rain spindle]

It was gms not the weavers

First sinner was the first weaver to rebel against gms

[fossil ledge]

I assumed she was just generating it herself, considering she wasn't severely weakened by runes over a long period of time as is established in Silksong

[teal drift]

Why is she imprisoned in the citadel though

[rain spindle]

Shes at the slab

[lethal burrow]

possible but you say it with too much confidence as its nowhere near confirmed

[spark valve]

hornet generates silk even when hitting things unaffected by gms's silk she's converting soul

[rain spindle]

Slab is not citadel

[teal drift]

Where is the evidence she sinned against gms and not the weavers.

[ancient dock]

Hornet genarates her own silk

[edgy nebula]

the grey memento description implies that when the rest of the karaka and khann went into hibernation aswell (before dying), wote was designated to watch over them or karak in some way, he mightve gone into hibernation recently and thats why he's survived so long

[cloud mesa]

hornet’s converting soul to silk is her thing

[rain spindle]

It is said her sin was apostasis

[round adder]

Aren't pale beings able to manipulate soul? Or something like that

[humble charm]

There appears to be some kind of correlation between Soul and Intelligence

[cloud mesa]

the weavers don’t do all that they just make it

[rain spindle]

I.e rebelling against god

[charred nimbus]

Wait, what, The Weavers were the ones who created the Citadel?

[edgy nebula]

yes

[spark valve]

it doesn't really imply that that's just the watcher

[raw pewter]

Slab is a part of citadel no? It's the Citadel prison

[humble charm]

The Knight (and Vessels) lack Intelligence, but are still able to wield Soul.

[rain spindle]

No it's technically separated

[lethal burrow]

are you certain That is what apostasy means?

[edgy nebula]

remember till time, life anew

[teal drift]

Okay get this:
weavers claim divine origin to justify their power
First Sinner points out that they arent divine
Weavers imprison her for apostasy.

[fossil ledge]

They are, yes. Could be this is what Hornet is doing

[cloud mesa]

soul is just bug life juice

[humble charm]

I really, REALLY do not want to know what the Pale King did to them

[rain spindle]

Knight is intelligence

[charred nimbus]

This discord channel is spicy, i had no idea of this lore

[humble charm]

"Do not think"

[rain spindle]

99% sure

[humble charm]

Cogito ergo sum.

[rain spindle]

But he thinks

[cloud mesa]

because their shell is organic and has soul

[spark valve]

that is what the watcher is doing yes
that does not mean it's what they're all doing

[rain spindle]

'-'

[teal drift]

Its possible she rebelled against gms but not confirmed by any means

[fossil ledge]

How so?

[cloud mesa]

the shades don’t have any soul but the knight’s shell does

[raw pewter]

I think therefore I am

[rain spindle]

Knighr obviously thinks. How do you think nosk became hornet

[edgy nebula]

why would they all be there otherwise though?

[wooden sphinx]

Sir those are Pale king words and he was wrong about some major things about vessels

[rain spindle]

It searched in their mind

[humble charm]

Those are actually the cut words of the Hollow Knight itself

[raw pewter]

If the Knight can feel, then it can think

[teal drift]

Rebelling against self identified/appointed angels would count as apostasy just as much as rebelling against god itself.

[spark valve]

why wouldn't they that's where they lived

[rain spindle]

So GMS

[round adder]

But the chains in her prison have runes similar to that of the cages in the cradle, which are tied to GMS if I remember correctly

[cloud mesa]

idk how ppl think the knight is hollow like that’s the whole point of the game is that none of them r truly hollow lol

[candid briar]

crackpot theory but at some point the void consumed joni's power, and lifeblood is now part of the abyss creature and that explains why "plasmium" went nuts during act 3, and why you dont really see any void tendrils around

cuz the lifeblood is already a sign of void's presence

[edgy nebula]

we never saw khann surrounded by his own karaks, i dont think theyd all suddenly die mid-meeting

[cloud mesa]

lifeblood feels like void x radiance infection goo

[spark valve]

they were dying out them gathering together towards the end isn't weird

[ancient dock]

Vessels are all intelligent knight has thoughts you need thoughts to open a bank account and use tram tickets

[humble charm]

Honestly Lifeblood doesn't feel like Radiance

[wooden sphinx]

Actually both of us are wrong and those are cut PV dream words but
A cut content
B those word directly refer to Pale King monologue in Birth place

[candid briar]

ive really been looking and i havent seen void particles or tendrils but we are seeing a lot of lifeblood in the wormways

but this is an all encompassing power that can go everywhere and does go even lower than wormways, so they shouldnt be safe

surely not safe enough to make far more and massively mutate everything in there

[gray iris]

hey lore nerds what is the lore of nameless town

[edgy nebula]

still, why would they all die at once? i feel like they simply went into hibernation and died then

[spark valve]

who said they all died at once

[ancient dock]

Nameless town

[candid briar]

unless it was already void related to begin with, which is why instead of making it weaker or taking it over, it simply made the area more fit for its presence

[cloud mesa]

when u mix soul and void u get vessel, when u mix radiance and void u get lifeblood and when u mix soul and radiance u get infection its so simple

[rain spindle]

There is none

[gray iris]

its not nameless anymore i call it noklahoma

[edgy nebula]

if they didnt die at once youd expect to see some corpses around karak, but there isnt

[rain spindle]

My theory is that it was a place of the ancient civilization

[candid briar]

i think its a little interesting that hornet mentions the similarities between how lifeblood and the radiance's infection work

i just dont know what this could mean though because lifeblood as far as we know isnt intelligent or causing some sort of hivemind in any way

[ancient dock]

Pretty sure it where the first residents of the citadel came from before they were seduced by it.

[gray iris]

its so cool how u pogo up pufferbugs and mr mushroom to noklahoma

[raw pewter]

I would say Lifeblood is relatively safe if used in small dosage, and I mean really small, it's only became infectious and destructive due to it being spread and experimented by Zylotol and his assistant

[spark valve]

they all gathered together towards the end and then died no reason for corpses to be strewn around

[rain spindle]

The humble abyss creature

[candid briar]

but apparently in hallownest it was also a sort of taboo thing
and lifebloodheart iirc is present in the abyss
home of the void

[edgy barn]

That fight does not happen in the real world. I think First Sinner was testing Hornet.

[fossil ledge]

We don't really know much about the Nameless Town. Only that a bug from below made its way up to escape GMS and ended up dying. Also, GMS doesn't reach this far.

There's a theory that the pilgrim bugs originated from this village and others like it before they were lured down by Weavers and GMS to serve, but that's about it, really

[gray iris]

the ghost is partly hollow thats why he can use life blood without getting infected

[candid briar]

funny little creature that just watches and unfortunately the knight does not make any note of it

[ancient dock]

That not a theory pretty sure an item confirms it

[rain spindle]

Its also in godhome somehow

I think it's kinda like the white lady

Doesnt want to fight only spread itself

[candid briar]

definitely a higher being, if we are to also take into account hornet's comparison to the radiance

[edgy nebula]

the nature of their corpses implies they died at once mid-meeting, theyre all standing in the same position, i dont think theyd all die like that

and if they didnt hibernate why would wate have the words on his memento? infact why would he even be there?

[fossil ledge]

The memento?

[spark valve]

he's obviously doing something different, appointed to keep watch and just stayed

[candid briar]

honestly this just leans more into my theory
because the knight is already void related, using a power stemming from the void right now

he's not being altered like characters are in act 3, or changed because its just stacking void on void

[spark valve]

it doesn't

[ancient dock]

I need to check it but I remember a description they were seduced by the citadel

[gray iris]

what is the lore of the electric zone in memoria were they trying to recreate the voltwyrm or something

[candid briar]

and void in small doses isnt necessarily dangerous
i mean we can shatter vials of void all we want and its relatively harmless

[candid briar]

i say relatively cuz i have no idea the actual consequence, if there are any

[edgy nebula]

it's there so they can remember it

[cloud mesa]

lifeblood is like infection without any of the dream stuff

[fossil ledge]

I think they were just experimenting with its properties, as it seems something about the Voltvyrm's essence affects silk/soul

[raw pewter]

Memoriam is basically just a zoo

[spark valve]

and after

[chrome atlas]

Oh, I have a theory about the Karak dead dudes in Coral Tower!

Karak is based on crustaceans generally, and a lot of tidal-zone crustaceans have the ability to 'lock up', where they essentially clamp down to save water inside their shells (e.g barnacles). The Karak dudes may have done the same when the waters receded, and then just sorta died when it never came back

[cloud mesa]

if i stick a straw into the abyss sea and take a sip then what

[gray iris]

i cant believe they put crabs in my bug game

[fossil ledge]

Considering Hornet can use it too without consequence, my guess is their pale being shell is what's preventing lifeblood from taking over

[raw pewter]

I can't believe they put birds in my bug game

[fossil ledge]

Hollow Knight also had a crab-like spirit

[gray iris]

no its not hornet just tank that shit

[high violet]

you might get lost somewhere for sure

[dry bridge]

hornet does have consequence to overusing hiveblood actually

[cloud mesa]

i thought that lifeblood was only bad in high high doses

[candid briar]

whats with all the screeching
why is GMS so dramatic

[dry bridge]

she is better resistant to it than most bugs however & can clear it from her system before it's an actual issue

[ancient dock]

Probably what happened they were expecting water but it never came back

[candid briar]

it seems to mutate her

[steep helm]

I can't believe they put bugs in my bug game

[gray iris]

hollow knight is not a true bug game because it has jelly fish

[fossil ledge]

It does? I missed that?

[gray iris]

if u plasmium a lot it makes ur hearts blue

[cloud mesa]

do u think hornet has time actively fight off the infection every night or is she just naturally immune?

[candid briar]

it doesnt send her full "grahh giant blue and white creature of infection" but its not like the knight where it just treats it as extra health. excessive use completely replaces your masks, until she rests and resets.

[ancient dock]

It affects her in some way lore wise

[dry bridge]

if you get too many lifeblood masks at once (via architect crest) you enter a special lifeblood mode where all your normal masks become lifeblood & regenerate over time until you next bench

[fossil ledge]

To be fair most bugs found in Hallownest aren't even true bugs lol. Those would be only the ones with a long snout lmao

[gray iris]

but she doesnt become a zombie because she is built different

[round adder]

Maybe the pale being shell they inherited is naturally resistant in general, when you get whitch crest the bug says she needs something to get through your tough shell and this makes sense as to why the pale king's plan for the vessels would even work

[candid briar]

i know its bad but i kinda love using it

[dry bridge]

presumably if hornet let this sit too long it would be bad for her (and I think a couple characters have unique dialogue for it too)

[candid briar]

temporarily immortality

[cloud mesa]

hornets immune system is built different

[ancient dock]

Eva doesn’t let you in if you in lifeblood mode

[dry bridge]

but she is also able to purge the lifeblood from her system if she rests, so it's mostly benign for her even at these doses

[gray iris]

its funny how they combined hive blood and life blood in hk2

[fossil ledge]

Wait, for real? What do you need to do to trigger this? I used it quite a bit in my first playthrough for platforming sequences especially and never got this

[dry bridge]

you need like, 9 lifeblood masks

[fossil ledge]

Oh, so all of the ones from the max vial plus a few from cocoons?

[dry bridge]

i.e. only with architect crest crafting, or I think getting plasmium cocoons from act 3 wormways

[round adder]

Use architect and use it a bunch, then bind craft and keep using it without sitting down

[candid briar]

the best way to activate it intentionally is to use architect
slam yourself full of lifeblood, refill the vial with architect's crest ability, and then do it again and she'll lose all her masks for health masks

[candid briar]

yeah you have to use the cocoons if you dont have architect's for whatever reason

architect feels like one of the easier ones to find im ngl

[dry bridge]

Architect crest makes it a lot easier to do though

[fossil ledge]

I see, interesting

I never used Architect so I guess that's why I missed it lol

[candid briar]

my rage

[candid briar]

endless for thee

[fossil ledge]

Wot?

[candid briar]

endless rage

[fossil ledge]

Why?

[raw pewter]

Architect is so broken, personally I like using Wanderer, but using Architect shred bosses

[round adder]

Architect crest is goated

[gray iris]

i got like 85% the game done still doesnt explain why hornet is named hornet when she is a spider

[fossil ledge]

Get to the Red Memory dude

[humble charm]

The Crests I found were Beast, Reaper, Architecht

[candid briar]

architect is one of the best crests imo
does i think the regular attack does more than one hit, and its charge does a BUNCH of hits again and again while having a very good range

and you can equip 3 tools and tools are strong

[raw pewter]

She got a horn, and silk can be used to make net

[gray iris]

true

[edgy nebula]

the charge was nerfed this update

[candid briar]

tools are ridiculously strong honestly

[fossil ledge]

I'm using the default crests that boosts damage when you don't get hit, and it also allows me to use silk skills

[humble charm]

I wanna find whatever it is that lets you do that goofy drill attack

[candid briar]

honestly i dont think it damages that much tbh
its still a shred with good range

most of the other charged attacks pus you pretty close to whatever you're attacking

[spark valve]

Architect

[humble charm]

No the

[fossil ledge]

For my first playthrough I mostly used wanderer's cause it was easier to adapt from HK

[humble charm]

https://tenor.com/view/hornet-hollow-knight-hornet-hollow-knight-silk-song-drill-gif-25942069

[candid briar]

wait this is cool i want this

[round adder]

Witch crest with the mirrors and anything that buffs bind is broken

[humble charm]

This one not the drill attacks from ARchitect lol

[raw pewter]

Wanderer is my goat, so fast, so simple

[fossil ledge]

Especially with longclaw

[gray iris]

wander is the most powerful crest in the game

[edgy nebula]

the evil quick sling poison architect

[candid briar]

tbh idk where witchest crest is

[raw pewter]

I feel Architect is better if you use tools a lot

[fossil ledge]

I feel like most crests except for beast have at least one broken build

[edgy nebula]

get twisted bud from whispering vaults to bilewater and take it to greyroot

[rancid violet]

its a whole ass quest

[candid briar]

twisted... what?

this is act 3 isnt it'

[edgy barn]

Nope

[candid briar]

oh so i just completely missed that then

ngl binding is busted

[round adder]

Exactly, I beat act 3 with a witch crest build while missing 2 slots, on my first attempt for the day (I tried the fight the day before but got rolled)

[rancid violet]

its just very outta the way

[edgy nebula]

no act 2

[raw pewter]

The fact you can bind mid air is sooo amazing

I like using that one tool that let you heal up to four masks

[gray iris]

shadow of the turd tree elden ring is such a garbage dlc i thought they were gonna put a beehive area like hollow knight because miquella has hive mind powers but they just made the final area the top of belurat i hate shadow of the turd tree

[candid briar]

multibinder beloved

[fossil ledge]

Multibinder is peak. Part of my default setup lol

[candid briar]

do i have to get more of those spinning music cylinders or is that unrelated

[fossil ledge]

Especially with the injector tool that makes it faster

[gray iris]

multibinder let u hit twice your trobbio mirror

[rancid violet]

unrelated

[candid briar]

damn i really just missed that quest then
is it over by that secret area in whispering vaults?

[fossil ledge]

Unrelated. You need to go right instead of left when in the lower right area of the Whispering Vaults, so you end up in Bilewater. Explore a bit and you'll find it

[candid briar]

i left that area pretty quickly when it dropped me in bilewater

[candid briar]

NOOOOO

[edgy nebula]

yes thats the area

[raw pewter]

I actually just realized you were mocking me, oh well, to each their own

[fossil ledge]

This is peak

[edgy nebula]

i feel your pain

[rancid violet]

I mean, its bilewater I get why you'd leave

[round adder]

I had the twisted bud in my inventory for half my playthrough and oh my goodness, why is that thing SO ANNOYING

[fossil ledge]

I'm guessing it's done on purpose to get you to try and get rid of it

[raw pewter]

Oh yeah doesn't it make a baby sound?

[fossil ledge]

Otherwise you'd just keep it as an inventory pet lol

[candid briar]

i'll just go through the songclave...

[fossil ledge]

Yeah, a subtle, distorted and grainy crying sound

Quite unsettling

[round adder]

And it whimpers whenever you are in your inventory

[rancid violet]

its just a fucked up lil guy

[raw pewter]

I remember finding it unsettling, so I just never open my inventory during the span of me getting to Greyroot

Only once, and never again

[round adder]

Everytime I opened my menu I heard it whimper and this lasted like 5 hours of gameplay before I looked up how to get rid of it

[gray iris]

did hornet named hornet because she was raised by bees who thought they were hornets

[gray swallow]

I'm confused about First sinner, is it just her that's a regular spider turned weaver or is it all of the weavers? Also why does herra look nothing like any of the other weavers? She's like the only spider to not have a thin black body, and she doesn't have a sphere head.

[gray iris]

are they stupid

[gray swallow]

Well apparently her sword is made of hivesteel so maybe

[fossil ledge]

Have you finished Act 3?

[raw pewter]

Hornet was canonically trained by Vespa, the Hive Queen

[fossil ledge]

If not you might want to

[gray iris]

yes

yeah in red memory she was raised by bees

[fossil ledge]

Yes, though I believe she was simply named Hornet cause it's a hive-esque name

[gray iris]

so still dont make sense how she is called hornet unless the bees thought they were hornets

dumb ass fucking bees thought they were hornets

[fossil ledge]

Though it's odd to think that both the White Lady and Herrah loved her, yet neither bothered to name her lol

[gray iris]

idiot bees

[raw pewter]

I would assumed Herrah is the one who named Hornet and not the bees

[ebon silo]

More so trained I'm pretty sure hornet just had to fend for herself

[ebon silo]

Nah I would not think so not all weavers had a name

[gray iris]

that makes even less sense

[rancid violet]

well its not like White Lady has a name, seems like a kinda common thing for higher bugs to have titles rather than names

[raw pewter]

Herrah has a name

[ebon silo]

She was above iq of a weaver

[gray iris]

like do a human name their kid orangutan

it makes no sense

[gray swallow]

Maybe she was named hornet cause she has horns

Like horn-ete

[gray iris]

real

[ebon silo]

Okay Jesus white time for your bedtime

[raw pewter]

I did told Starchy that she does has horn, and silk can be used to make nets

[gray iris]

real

[ebon silo]

What could nets have to do with hornet

[rancid violet]

hor net

[raw pewter]

Silk can be used to make nets, ya know, Hornet and silk?

-# This is intended as a joke

[foggy fractal]

not sure if this means that the pinstress was conceptuallized all the way back given how the knight appears on the same page, still cool tho

[ebon silo]

I guess your joke couldn't "net" in the fishes to laugh

get it

[sacred heath]

hornet is pointy bee
Hornet is pointy and the bees helped raise her
therefore she is bee
and since she’s pointy and hornets are pointy bees
they named her hornet

because Hornet is a pointy bee

[gray iris]

hornets are not bees

[sacred heath]

of course they aren’t

[raw pewter]

Who knows, under that cloak could be a hivemind of bees

[rancid violet]

they're like kinda similar

[sacred heath]

theyre too pointy

[gray iris]

im convinced that the bees were just dumb and thought they were hornets

[sacred heath]

why would they do that

[raw pewter]

To be fair Hornet doesn't exactly look like a spider

[ebon silo]

Y'know hornets design is represented by each of her 3 mother figures

[gray iris]

because they named hornet hornet

[ebon silo]

That's because she's half wyrm so it kinda dominates the genes because it's a wyrm

[raw pewter]

Herrah also have big horns

[rancid violet]

wyrm has 0 limbs, spider has 8, half that to 4

[raw pewter]

Maybe she's hiding extra limbs

[gray iris]

wyrms are kinda weird they are huge and then give birth to a little guy

[cloud mesa]

hornet and herrah have similar heads but that’s were the familiar resemblance ends

[ebon silo]

I know the reason why hornet is called hornet it's because a bee bagged hornet and at some point he started calling her hornet because of how much she stings him and it was kinda freaky and I can confirm I was there because I was taking a photo of a marriage inside the hive

[gray iris]

the hollow knights dad is like he came to hallownest as a bug tube worm then became a little guy with a crown

[rancid violet]

it is weird how he became a lil guy

[raw pewter]

Can confirmed, I was the camera

[gray iris]

maybe the worm is like a mecha and he is just piloting it

[ebon silo]

So fucking Gundam

[cloud mesa]

i thought it’s like a wyrm thing to turn into whatever bug fits their new environment? thats how i interpreted it

[rancid violet]

maybe all worms can become lil guys and that's what the lord fool in the colosseum is

[cloud mesa]

i really wish there was more wyrm stuff in silksong

[fossil ledge]

That does seem to be the implication. That they have transient forms, adapating to what suits their needs

[ebon silo]

How can you spread your influence and your existence if you cant even fit into a door

[raw pewter]

I want to see more Second Sentinel, Second Sentinel my beloved

[rancid violet]

make bigger doors

[cloud mesa]

pharloom didnt need a wyrm but i wish there were like wyrm vibes or something somewhere, just : so we could learn more about them

[rancid violet]

instead of doors have massive cat flaps so the wyrms can get around

[ebon silo]

Wyrms make civilization exist so obviously it must've existed but abandoned because maybe GMS was more influencing

For all we know the wyrm could be in mount fay

[rancid violet]

Is it just wyrms that make civilizations or all pale beings?

[ebon silo]

Yeah just wyrms I'm very sure

they are the only things that are way massive than civilizations itself

[raw pewter]

How could you be so sure? We don't see any Wyrm in Pharloom

[lethal burrow]

nether. nothing is stopping a collection of mortal bugs from grouping together and making one

[raw pewter]

Civilization could have been made by groups of bugs without some higher beings influences

[lethal burrow]

ye

[raw pewter]

It's just that higher beings like making civilizations

[ebon silo]

Because it's confirmed in the lore and literally because they were one of the few that could give sapience and actual intelligence

in the old hallownest there was no such thing as thinking

[lethal burrow]

mantis, deepnest, hive, mushrooms.

(also mosskin and moths but those come from higher beings)

Also, don't forget all the travellers like zote and cornifer.

[raw pewter]

I guess we're just ignoring the Mantises

[ebon silo]

Hm shit about wyrm is complicated but for all I know is that they were one of the few that made civilizations exist more

[raw pewter]

Pale King make it so that the bugs are more civilized, making an actual society

[lethal burrow]

no, all we know is that they have the tendency to make civilizations.

[raw pewter]

He did elevate a couple of bugs intelligent, but not all of them

[lethal burrow]

he did a elevate a good lot

[rancid violet]

They seem to make the larger ones tho

[tropic arrow]

Pale King did give other bugs higher thinking, but not all, other bugs in the place had em before he showed up

[lethal burrow]

well, we only have one example so I don't think that's very fair

The pale King certainly made a pretty big one

[rancid violet]

True, who knows what the coliseum wyrm did

[lethal burrow]

Not every big bug is a wyrm

[tropic arrow]

In fact, we only ever see 1 in the game

Hear of maybe another one, potentially

[raw pewter]

He did yeah, I under-exaggerate by using "couple", he did elevate a ton of bug's intelligent, but making bug sapient is not exclusive to the Pale King or Pale Beings, as we see other bugs also have intelligent without the Pale King's influence

[rancid violet]

I remembered it being a wyrm, sorry if I'm wrong

[lethal burrow]

it doesn't look like one and it's not nearly as big, seems like it's just another big ancient thing

[wicked grotto]

its theorized to be a wyrm

[lethal burrow]

ig

[tropic arrow]

First time I'm hearing so

But as Bardoon would put it, doesn't look anywhere near big enough to be one

[candid briar]

YEAH BABY

[raw pewter]

You know it is such a shame we didn't see any scorpions, would have been a cool rival tribe to the Weavers or something

[lethal burrow]

ye bardoon is much bigger than the Colosseum and even he himself is too small

[candid briar]

NO VOICE TO WHAT?

wait a minute void makes sound

[sacred heath]

perhaps some kind of… black wyrm?
the shell is a slightly darker color…

[lethal burrow]

[raw pewter]

Ah the legendary war of the Black Wyrm

[candid briar]

i guess its not a voice but eh

[rancid violet]

Bardoon for next pale being

[ebon silo]

Nah I was the photographer of the battle of the blackwyrm that shit Is not the blackwyrm

[raw pewter]

Hold an election

[sacred heath]

well i tried

[ebon silo]

War didn't even happened because probably the 5 knights killed the blackwyrm before a war even started

[raw pewter]

I honestly don't know anything about the Blackwyrm, so eh

[ebon silo]

decapitating the leaders head of an army like how every other barbarian army did

[ebon silo]

Silksong needolin memory DLC we find the missing false knifht

we simply go into bros memory and we are now inside the battle of the blackwyrm

[rancid violet]

Dung defender just domo domo domo-ed them to death

[raw pewter]

Quite literally throwing shits at them and won

[gray iris]

i am sad hornet does not say shah hegale adidas in this game

but she does say garama

[sacred heath]

does Hornet say SHAW even once

[gray iris]

it is cool says trobbio says trobbio a lot and he is played by a guy named trobbiani

if i were a voice actor i hope someone makes a gamed with a character named starcho and i get to say starcho a lot

[rain spindle]

Theres a chance qe fight a great knight if the pantheons take place in hornets memory

Likely Dryya

[raw pewter]

Oh I would love to fight Dryya, of the five knights she's the one I want to meet the most

[edgy river]

I like how we know a ton of stuff about this legendary battle

Like that it existed.... And that it had a black wyrm!

[gray iris]

isma is wet and dryya is dry thats why she is called dryya

[edgy nebula]

lowkey my theory is that the temple of the black egg was built out of the blackwyrm

[edgy nebula]

why isnt isma called wetta

[edgy river]

The temple of black egg seems like void tho

It disappears on DNM

[gray iris]

wetta is her mom one of the previous five knights

[edgy river]

Probably fighting vespa at least

It's cut content from the game there are sprites of her battle already there

[agile coral]

just seen some people on the internet saying "the green prince's lover could be any gender" be for real they look like copies of eachother made in a lab

[sinful nimbus]

Black Egg is noted to be stone

It disappears when a giant void god demolishes it which is fairly intuitive

[edgy river]

I think she doesn't, probably it's because she is dar away from the influence of the Pale King. So his power of inflicting thoughts of saws in people don't work

[gray iris]

the worst part of hollow knight 2 is when u kill conch fly's husband. it is so sad u have to kill conch fly's husband

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think TC would add gay characters to SS when they're so blatantly far right

[gray iris]

and then conch fly attacks u with her kids and u have to kill conch fly

it is so sad the conch fly kids are without parents cuz u kill them both

[foggy fractal]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1006341705924087919/1209116486418042930/caption-1-7-1.gif

[sinful nimbus]

anything but the ba wor............ 💔

[edgy river]

I think the power to "give intelligence" to bugs he was said to possess in HK was actually just that he made everyone think about saws all the time and we understood it wrong. So hornet doest say Shaw anymore because she's not under his decaying influence

[tropic arrow]

nope. Only "Garama!"

[rancid violet]

Aren't most bugs agender?

[sinful nimbus]

No

[tropic arrow]

That's the only iconic voiceline she kept

[rancid violet]

I know the siblings are genderless

[gray iris]

shah garama abidas hegale

[edgy river]

It's because they are hollowed out by void

Most bugs have gender, the siblings are an anomaly

[gray iris]

it is because void is like sea animals which are more likely to be hemaphrodite

for example coral

[edgy river]

Tbh i found impressive how much they took from her HK battle to put as power ups in this game. I kept getting surprised at getting familiar abilities

[gray iris]

and sponge

[edgy river]

Wait do the shamans have gender?

[sinful nimbus]

yeah

[gray iris]

or i guess most characters in hollow knight are arthropods and the void is mollusk

[sinful nimbus]

They're described as sisters aunts uncles etc

[rancid violet]

Well phantom and 2nd sentinel use they/them

[sinful nimbus]

Phantom is a girl

Lace's sister

[edgy river]

Huh. Maybe shamans aren't made of void and just like it. But it's still weird because they sure look like it in act 3

[gray iris]

the shamans are snails and snails are hemaphrodite and can identify either way

[rancid violet]

The guy you give psalm cylinders to uses it

[gray iris]

is the psalm guy an earthworm

[edgy river]

I mean there can be they/them characters but it's not a majority of bugs

Most characters are gendered

[rancid violet]

Yeah that's fair

[sinful nimbus]

Enbies would be too based for ss

[foggy fractal]

the absrad equivalent is gonna be shoelace

[edgy river]

Btw. Is the psalm guy and the relic seeker the same species?

They look alike

[gray iris]

yes

[edgy river]

Is there any lore tied to them at all? Or they just exist and that's it

Relic seeker specially

[gray iris]

they like collecting stuff

[spring escarp]

Wait, whar if the pin yielding sisters from the game each had a signature attack? The blue one would have the X cross attack, maybe the barrage of attacks from lace and secons sentinel are from the red one and maybe the remaining slash one is from the green one? What do we find on the green sister death place? Some item?

[foggy fractal]

wraith of purity

[gray iris]

trobbio and 2nd sentinal also have an x attack

[foggy fractal]

defends against maggot infested waters

[spring escarp]

Ok forget that part

But I think each sister probably has some attack tied to each maybe and perhaps we can guess

[foggy fractal]

best we can do is guess

[rancid violet]

Welcome to hollow knight lore

[foggy fractal]

wouldn't be suprised if they did each have an attack

[spring escarp]

If I am right

Pretty sure the blue one mains the X attack

[edgy river]

It's weird we only get to see one in action. The sister that makes you the cloak herself seems very isolated in this game. I kept coming back to her expecting new dialogue and there isn't much she just exists and is there

[foggy fractal]

yes the Pinstress has the X attack

[spring escarp]

Google keeps "correcting" pintress to pinterest

[spring escarp]

The citadel learned pin yielding with yhem So I guess all attacks are shared, what are all the special moves citadel uses?

Phantom has the strike barrage after parry

So does lace

[edgy river]

Parries maybe but we already got a boss based around parrying with the phantom

[spring escarp]

Maybe the red one didn't get involved?

[foggy fractal]

you mean the cross stitch ?

[spring escarp]

Yes i think

[glossy badger]

This fight could've been so much better

[spring escarp]

I am guessing it is probably the red one but I have no reason to feel it

[spring escarp]

Idk why people don't like it

[foggy fractal]

yeah dude she has like 3 things she can do 😭
the x attack
the other melee attack
and then the aerial attack
thats literally it I think

[spring escarp]

It was fun for me

[edgy river]

I agree, and I don't like the arena very much as well

[glossy badger]

She really felt like a basic enemy with tons of health

[spring escarp]

I missed the bench near to it whefe you get the true silkshot

[edgy river]

Maybe an optional dream fight with a way harder boss would be fun for pinterest

She felt basic

[spring escarp]

Wasn't hard to fight so I didn't look for benches

[glossy badger]

She was hard for me then I used some cogflies

[spring escarp]

pinterest hahah

[edgy river]

Me too I was climbing up very time

[spring escarp]

gottem

[glossy badger]

Yeah I fell off a few times

[edgy river]

But it was like 2 times so whatever

[spring escarp]

yep

Generally if it gets too long you can sense a bench is nearby

somewhere

I think team cherry added too many benches

[rancid violet]

Unless you're in bilewater

[foggy fractal]

ok what are some of the best fights in Silksong go

[spring escarp]

There is a bench in bilewater

[rancid violet]

Yeah 1

[spring escarp]

Two in fact

[glossy badger]

Nah they added the right amount

[edgy river]

The good thing if it being simple is its one less headache for my current 100% Steel soul save. Ill probably do it rn tbh

Losing an act 3 run to Pinterest would be very sad

But she deserved better for sure

[spring escarp]

I felt I'd see a new bench all the damn time

I would add 30% less

So it doesn't trivialize the thing

[edgy river]

Tbf I didn't know about it when I did frog

So I kept dying and doing all over again from the eira station

[spring escarp]

I spoiled myself on it

[rancid violet]

I really dislike that damn frog

[spring escarp]

The muckmaggots are the mindkiller

I was unwilling to explore secrets in magfotwater

Even though they occured to my mind.

[glossy badger]

If bilewater had another Bench or two I'd like it

[spring escarp]

Is he a frog tho

[edgy river]

It's an easy boss but the Gauntled before it makes him annoying

[gray iris]

no he is a bug

[spring escarp]

nah

maybe 3

[glossy badger]

The slab has 3 benches

[spring escarp]

The gauntless never killed me

same goes to the forum

[rancid violet]

He's kinda frog shaped

[spring escarp]

I guess i am built different f

[edgy river]

Honestly I love current Bilewater. Specially the section without wings. Doing Sinners Road+Bilewater for the first time was so stressful but so good

[spring escarp]

the enemy trial rooms were all easy

[spring escarp]

on the end of the game I found thr stux shortcut

i felt stupid walking throug sinners road every damn time for no reason.

Sinners road is kinda small too idk

[rancid violet]

Big shocker, the person named after getting 112% is good at games

[edgy river]

Stux shortcut!

[spring escarp]

What is up with every metroidvania feels minuscle when we finish it

[edgy river]

?

[glossy badger]

I don't really enjoy either but going through sinners Road into the mist and then fighting phantom into the citadel was peak

[spring escarp]

styx

You can open a fake wall thefe via greymoor

[edgy river]

I hit the mist from the other side. Didn't find it on sinners

[spring escarp]

I got in there via sinners road

[edgy river]

So I did sinners road directly into Bilewater and then mist. Was insane

[spring escarp]

What other side of the kyst

[glossy badger]

That's kinda crazy

[spring escarp]

the citadel side?

[glossy badger]

Bilewater

[rancid violet]

It took me a while to work out you have to play the needlin

[glossy badger]

I had to look it up I was so confused

[spring escarp]

I figured it eas the butterlfies

[slim warren]

Its real https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sEIrWXBA8Y&t=31s

[glossy badger]

I didn't look up many things in the game

[spring escarp]

But I would never remember the needolin existed

I was just following the general direction of butterflies

[rancid violet]

I tried to do that and wound up back at the entrance 3 times

Atleast Phantom is a great fight

[spring escarp]

ye

[glossy badger]

Phantom was peak

[spring escarp]

All the bosses in this game were too sudden of victories

[glossy badger]

That's pretty cool

[spring escarp]

You know how you feel you are struggling

and then you simply are not?

In HK most of the bosses were gradual improvements for me

[glossy badger]

I've had alot of super close calls

[spring escarp]

But on silksong it was always suprising to win

like huh??????

Not that most were that hard

[rancid violet]

Ss is much more about endurance

[spring escarp]

It was like a weird rythm to the victory, like a staccato instead of a slow rise.

[glossy badger]

Karmelita was like that for me I was so surprised when I beat her I thought there was gonna be another phase

[spring escarp]

Oh yeah I would always stay en guarde for bullshit endings

I think expecting team cherry tropes

Ruined the game for me a lityle

[rancid violet]

We all remember soul master

[spring escarp]

I was always prepared

[glossy badger]

It seems only the weaver fights fake death

[spring escarp]

Nu uh I am not falling for this

[glossy badger]

Spiders do fake die so its funny

[spring escarp]

O expected a thrid phase

[tiny socket]

Trobbio moment

[spring escarp]

Specially on the clorckwork dancers

and clover dancers

these two surprised me by how easy they were

third to last boss bruh

[glossy badger]

I do enjoy them

[spring escarp]

I'd make them 20% faster

[glossy badger]

I like alot of the easy fights

[spring escarp]

I like gms

[tiny socket]

A lot of times bosses are easier because they have clearer patterns and indicators, which generally also makes them more satisfying to fight

[spring escarp]

Clockwork and clover were like

Basically dead giveaway bro

Like if you are gonna tell me so clearly what you will do it

at least do it fast

[glossy badger]

I struggled alot with tormented trobbio despite him not being that hard because of all the visual clutter

[spring escarp]

idk

The onlt attack kind a little hard to track was the glirtee bombs

[rancid violet]

Gms has alot of Radiance dna in her fight which I like

[spring escarp]

But that is fine

[tiny socket]

Is trobbio tormented because he lost or because the world’s ending?

[glossy badger]

The world's ending

[spring escarp]

The only fights I REALLY struggle involve lots of independent enemies during a bossfight

[glossy badger]

He's not lost he's just completely insane

[spring escarp]

Also moorwing

For some reason.

Pre nerf tho

[glossy badger]

Yeah I fought him again and he was so much easier. Pre nerf was super hard

[rancid violet]

Moorwing has those saws that act alot like an independent enemy I get it

[spring escarp]

i didn't want to update my game

too bad I guess

[spring escarp]

I got kinda trolled by the second turns

And the hitbox felt kinda weird

I'd hit him confused

[tiny socket]

Did they change staggered bosses doing contact damage?

Wait this isn’t discussion what am I doing here

[spring escarp]

I think i hate the little sway in place flying enemies do

[spring escarp]

iirc seth is different on this

[rancid violet]

I think alot of them only do 1 contact damage now

[spring escarp]

How long until DLC

I think I burn the candle way too fast....

[rancid violet]

Maybe give them a year

[spring escarp]

Is there something I might have missed on the map or world

Anything to do

any event npc secret room!!

[rancid violet]

I managed to completely miss sands of karak

[spring escarp]

YOU What

Oh on the first ending you mean

[tiny socket]

It’s in the middle of nowhere

[edgy river]

He's going through an edgy phase

[spring escarp]

Impossible to miss?

trobbio is adorable

[tiny socket]

I only went back there cause I remembered there were rings

[coral wren]

Why did they have to cut content? There was no deadline and they had as long as they wanted because they already have infinite funding

[spring escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/friends-friends-tv-tv-friends-joey-joey-friends-gif-6312805648026098618

No

what happens????

[rancid violet]

You do need it for act 3 to happen but otherwise it's just middle of nowhere with very little to indicate it's there

[spring escarp]

Is it the high halls weird ledge room?

[edgy river]

Fair it's out of the way. I just remembered the little rings near Pinterest. It was pretty iconic to me, but I missed wisp thicket completely on the first playthrough

[spring escarp]

There is always map open ends.

[spring escarp]

pinterest heheg

Pintress test

[edgy river]

Probably didn't fit well with the rest of the game, or it would delay it even more. New ideas would always come in and if they didn't want ANY cut content the game would literally never release

[rancid violet]

Pintress is a fun word that my phone wants to correct to pointless

[spring escarp]

Do it

15 years for silksong I can tske it

I am not joking when I say I felt some parts needed more time in the oven

I love overly long development timelines

[rancid violet]

Cutting content isn't just for time, sometimes it doesn't fit with the rest of the world anymore or it says things that it shouldn't, like implying weird things about lore

[edgy river]

I wish we got the steel assassin's tho. But with the steel zin side quest it makes me feel like we will be getting it as dlc

[spring escarp]

Like owlboy, redline, the thief and the cobbler, cyberpunk 2077, silksong, no mans sky and terraria.

The high halls one has zero data online explaining as of the last time I checked

[coral wren]

Ah ok makes sense

[spring escarp]

And the map says so too if you click

apparently some secrets still haven't been open

maybe it is dlc reserved content

[edgy river]

I don't get it tbh I felt the game was overflowing with content. Somehow the game just never ended, I felt like I was near the end of the game for half my play time because of how much extra fluff there was

[spring escarp]

Idk what dataminers found so fsr

[spring escarp]

verdania, abyss sands of kara,.putrified ducts and sinners road

Mainly

I'd make em bigger

[edgy river]

Sinners road was great and didn't need to be long imo

[spring escarp]

It was like.

N shaped corridor

[rancid violet]

Sinners road is fine as is dear god

[edgy river]

Bilewater keeps some of the same elements while changing some others and the fact that they made it multiple smaller areas was a smart move

[spring escarp]

Tbf

Bilewater, putrified ducts and sinner roads

Kinda blend in the same vibe idk

Felt kinda like a megabiome

[edgy river]

Karak is one of my favorite areas in the game and it is smaller than id like but it's fine

[rancid violet]

They do have the same stagnant water, forgotten by the citadel vibes

[spring escarp]

The secret in there that like you ahve to go down to go up

[edgy river]

I think that's the idea. Instead of having a giant area they diversified a bit and split into 3 which i like a lot more

[spring escarp]

really cool

[rain spindle]

Apparently steel city will be hollow knight 3 thing

[rain spindle]

Honestly idk how they will live up to pharloom

[foggy fractal]

where'd you get this

[edgy river]

What do u mean we don't even know if there will be a HK 3 do we?

[rancid violet]

But sinners road feels alot more like a punishment for those living there rather than somewhere that got flooded

[edgy river]

What about SS dlc?

[spring escarp]

I guess I was anticipating crazy changw with each new biomes pavlovinianicallistically

[rain spindle]

Check the blog

[edgy river]

Tbf "those living there" are like 3 people

[chrome atlas]

Karak is giving me 'expanded in DLC' vibes a la Royal Waterways and Howling Cliffs in base HK

[edgy river]

Tho they put the green prince there which was def a punishment thing

[rancid violet]

Yall sillsong has been out for less than a month, can yall chill lol

[spring escarp]

The green prince looks like

He is shoved into a random place

Unlike grindle

Idkkk

[foggy fractal]

like these ones ? https://www.teamcherry.com.au/

[rain spindle]

I think I got trolled.

[rancid violet]

It seems like there used to be more before the haunting

[cloud plover]

yea u did twin

[spring escarp]

I wish I was rich, talented and had many friends to make a stupid big meteoidvania

[chrome atlas]

Sinner's Road was originally a roach farm district, right? It probably got worse with the roaches loving the filth from the Putrified Duct overflow

[edgy river]

Greenpath and queens gardens have similar vibes in HK so it isn't unheard of. Also we got tons of different vibes in the game so it's fine by me

This game has so much more color it's insane

[spring escarp]

The size of the moon

[rain spindle]

However theres smth curious

[spring escarp]

Nah queens gard is much prettier

[foggy fractal]

check your facts next time

[rain spindle]

Steel city is related to void. Wouldn't it make more sense for the knight to go there, instead of hornet

[rain spindle]

No. I will spread uncofirmed information

[edgy river]

Who is trapping the roaches btw

In the cages

[foggy fractal]

I will pings mods 🐺

[spring escarp]

the flying dudes

i thinkt he surface bugs look a thousand times closer to roaches

Than the roaches

[rancid violet]

They ranch the roaches up there so I'm assuming the flying dudes you fight used yo just be ranchers

[cloud plover]

i thought better of you andy ☹️ 👎

[rain spindle]

I will also ping mods

[edgy river]

Me when i spread misinformation on the internet

[rain spindle]

Wtf will hornet do there

[edgy river]

Tbf they are definitely being affected by the water

[rancid violet]

People wouldn't lie on the Internet guys

[cloud plover]

we know way too little about steel city to even speculate

[edgy river]

The roaches evolved and deformed because of the conditions probably

[spring escarp]

huh

but the top bugs aren't roaches

[rain spindle]

We know it's a void worshipping kingdom

[spring escarp]

officially

[rain spindle]

So... uh. Chances are the knight lives there

[cloud plover]

no we don’t we know that they have something to do with void

[edgy river]

That water I'm saying the roaches in sinner roach don't look like roaches that much because they mutated it

[spring escarp]

I don't think so? They gotnpissed on the assistant for summoming the void

[edgy river]

From the poor living conditions of that place

[spring escarp]

why the jailers dont lookw eird

wxcept lugoli with that juicy fat ass

[rain spindle]

The masters are void-based creatures it's implied

[spring escarp]

How so?

[cloud plover]

how is this implied

[rain spindle]

Zinn says in hollow knight

[spring escarp]

Goid can ttalk? Theya r elike speakign kingsmoulds?

[spring escarp]

how

[rain spindle]

When the knight adquires the voidheart Zinn says it became like the masters

So. Like.

[spring escarp]

quote it

[edgy river]

Probably are there for not nearly as much time. Those roaches seem like they are natural to the place

[cloud plover]

let me find this quote i think you may be misinterpreting it

[spring escarp]

The jailers are defiently for longer, the roaches breed faster