sk-lore

[lethal burrow]

uhhhh still disputed

[plush spoke]

oh

[lethal burrow]

she discovered the weavers were just ascended pharlids tho

and she was not happy at grand mother silk about that

[plush spoke]

why

[lethal burrow]

because they perceived her to be lying to them about them being divine children.

i think

[charred pollen]

Definitely worth thinking about, although we don't know if there have been other shade lords in the past, if there was a shade lord I can't see why they couldn't grant sapience

[plush spoke]

ohh

[peak harbor]

the morality of the weavers vs gms is a commonly debated topic here which is pretty fun Imo

[plush spoke]

are there any lores behind the weaver tablets that gives hornet the skills?

[lethal burrow]

intombed weavers i think?

[nimble bronze]

That gets into universal destiny level stuff im not ready to tackle with, since it would imply a previous descent of wyrms, or similar beings who could channel soul and void together (since the shadelord is stated to be void given focus with the whole godseeker story)

though funnily enough, the ancient tribe did create the stones that store soul

[peak harbor]

i’d imagine the void may have had individual instances of beings given sentience, but maybe none as powerful or influential as the shade lord itself considering the shade lord is kind of composed of millions of dead god offspring so

[plush spoke]

is the void void water or is it just water with void tendrils

[charred pollen]

Who says the descendants of the wyrms are the only ones who can do this? Who says you even need to be able to channel soul to be a shade lord? You're making a lot of assumptions. Presumably any sentient being with a oneness with the void(which the knight obtains through the void heart but likely can be obtained in other ways) can become a shade lord

[charred pollen]

It's just the void given a form similar to water

Nothing really noteworthy about it, it just likes looking like water

[plush spoke]

oh alr

[lethal burrow]

idk if non void things can do it

[charred pollen]

I assume that's a prerequisite to oneness with the void tbh

Yup

[nimble bronze]

... Focus is tied directly to soul, the dream no more ending for the void given form (which ties to the void given focus) is the absorption of the kingsoul into the void heart, kind of why we dont just spawn a void heart out of no where

I dont know of other powerful void beings and their composition, but the shade lord is void and soul, its what gives the formless, nonsentient void shape

[charred pollen]

Focus is tied to the soul? I mean the ability is I suppose but I feel the need to remind you that the knight is the shade lord in dream no more and in embrace the void, in dream no more he is the shade lord despite not having focus
Proof of this is the statue dialogue changing from void power without unity
To
Lord of shades

Focus seems unnecessary to be the shade lord

[nimble bronze]

focus is unecessary to be the shade lord, who is the void given focus?

[charred pollen]

Void given form

Iirc at least

[nimble bronze]

thats not the shade lord, thats the knight

[plush spoke]

is the vessel that saves hornet the knight or pure vessel

[nimble bronze]

the knight is void given form

the hollow knight is void given focus

[charred pollen]

The knight

[charred pollen]

Only in embrace the void

Not in dream no more
But he is still shade lord

Also I still question the shade lord being void given focus requiring soul, it feels like you're linking some very questionabily connected things together. The ability focus that is tied to soul power seems very different from focus as in tk controls the void now

[nimble bronze]

if tk is just pure void, what exactly is different about them and the billions of liters of void before them?

outside of the, yknow, soul?

why is the kingsoul even part of the ending at all?

and what gives them both the glowing white eyes? Kind of odd thing to have if your only void?

[charred pollen]

That is an interesting topic I would like to dive into, we can presume tk keeps his soul bc his eyes are white as a shade
That doesn't necessarily mean you need to control soul power to be shade lord but it does suggest you need to keep your soul intact to be sapient which is a prerequisite of shade lord

[nimble bronze]

meaning youd need to at the very minimum, have the "tech" to shape void with soul in the first place, have it resist the full transformation of void to keep the soul intact and prop up a shadelord

since the void is never going to just produce soul

[craggy smelt]

I was thinking about this earlier - Void is said to have a hunger for Soul
Void can also replicate the effects of Soul magic
Void can create purely Void versions of the spells the Knight learns, seen with the Shade
Void also replicates the effects of the Haunting via Silk's threads
So Void can change forms based on the Soul it devours
which might be how Void takes the form of the siblings/vessels, by consuming the Soul they had as living children (Soul of Wyrm, Soul of Root)
and maybe Void beings that have been shaped by devouring Soul have the white eyes, while the Void tendrils have dark grey eyes

[nimble bronze]

the point being its an outside influence

[charred pollen]

At the very least you need to have a soul, so pure void beings can't be shade lord

Any half void half normal being could probably be shade lord if they could find something similar to void heart to bring the void under their control

[nimble bronze]

yeah its mainly just whos making a half void half bug in the first place, which would probably need either nature to reallllllly try and find a way, or a 3rd party with influence over soul and void

[cold axle]

i dunno, i don't think "half bug" is gonna cut it

[charred pollen]

Yes, the void wants to consume souls so you need to have a lot of control over souls to make a being that won't have their soul immediately devoured by the void within them. So in a way you're right, the creation of a shade lord requires a being with power over the soul but the shade lord itself doesn't need to have power over the soul

[nimble bronze]

honestly we dont know what else can cut it outside of exactly the steps the pale king took with the vessels

[cold axle]

the snails kind of fucking die doing a strong spell, even with incredibly powerful catalysts

for another example of like, "powerful rituals with dangerous consequences"

[nimble bronze]

and even then its not like the pale king did it all himself, the voidheart stuff was the knights own goals

[cold axle]

i think you've gotta be a lot more durable than "some void and some bug" to survive any kind of shade lord-related process

[nimble bronze]

tldr lots and lots of moving pieces

[cold axle]

since the pale king isn't exactly a bug, and neither is the white lady

maybe someone like groal or the soul master could do it, assuming they're juiced up on enough stolen soul

[charred pollen]

It just needs a soul, you're kinda right bc it would be almost impossible for a normal bug to have offspring that's part void without it devouring it's soul however if they just got incredibly lucky or a higher being stepped in to help stabilize their soul I don't see why it would be impossible for a normal bug void hybrid to be shade lord
Tldr; it should be fine as long as they can find a way to stop the void from devouring the soul

[cold axle]

(and assuming they have the void part in hand)

[cold axle]

someone would just need a soul to try

i'm utterly unconvinced, especially given the snail shamans just fucking explode when performing another powerful ritual, that anyone without extraordinary durability would survive the process in any way

attempt to unite the void? sure, yeah. succeed at uniting the void before your physical form is torn asunder? nah

you're gonna need to be a lot heartier than a mortal bug for that one

[nimble bronze]

honestly? excess soul could end up being a detriment, the more soul youve got the more the void wants to take, if your body aint up to the task youve just walked into a lion pit covering yourself with more steak sauce

[charred pollen]

True, technically possible doesn't always mean reasonable. Just bc mender bug could have been the father to the future shade lord doesn't mean that would ever actually happen lmao, there is so much complexity involved with getting the void not to devour a soul that realistically only a higher being could do it even if there is nothing physically stopping a normal bug

[cold axle]

that's also plausible

[charred pollen]

I don't think it has to due with health or the power of the soul or anything, I think it's a study, we know it took pk a lot of attempts to start making vessels correctly, them being born of two pale beings simply didn't matter to the void, it still ate their soul until pk figured out how to stop that from happening

[nimble bronze]

also even ignoring the "congrats you can survive being exposed to antimatter tendrils" part, the whole process of giving void focus for the shadelord isnt exactly a thought, the knight had to dig into the deepest pits of their even more empty emptyness after the pale king memory to transform a "limitless" source of soul from 2 higher beings into void, all of these previous steps are just "how do we make a vessel" 😭

kind of a lightning strike twice situation going on here

[charred pollen]

It's so weird, why is king soul a prerequisite to void heart. If we assume the void has a kind of intelligence it would make sense bc ofc it would be grateful to anything that gives it unlimited soul, but it's not supposed to have any form or focus or anything until the knight has the void heart so it shouldn't really think to reward the being that gave it kingsoul

It makes no damn sense

[bitter berry]

So did hornet train with the hive knight?

[steep talon]

Hive knight was probably a baby or just didn't exist when Hornet was training.

[charred pollen]

my initial reaction is no, is there some lore I'm overlooking?

[steep talon]

They have similar moveset, which is explained by them both being under Vespa

[bitter berry]

Oh my fault it showed hive queen not knight

[nimble bronze]

Its new, the void heart didnt come to be before the kingsoul, the knight ends up paving the path to becoming the shadelord, its specific down to the memory of them with the vessels and required them specifically returning to their birthplace, the unlimited soul isnt what "tames" the void moreso its what allows the knight to retain a soul in the presence of infinite void

and with that soul, calls upon every voice across the entirety of the void

[steep talon]

Not anymore

Or not every at least

[nimble bronze]

well specifically during the dream no more sequence

[steep talon]

Ah okay

[nimble bronze]

I cant imagine another explanation for this because the kingsoul is quite literally just a marriage certificate made with god powers

The knight just got creative with it lol

[steep talon]

Always thought void we see in dnm was just from their bodies. Kinda weird that we see siblings in abyss just retreat when they should have been up there with void

[charred pollen]

That honestly makes sense and kinda goes along with my idea that any void being with a soul can be the shade lord, they just need to find a way to make the void accept them whatever their method may be

[nimble bronze]

Yeah I dont think its necessarily specific to a species or whatnot, but the standards have kind of been set high when the first attempt weve seen of it is using the medallion of pale being 1 and pale being 2

[peak turtle]

|| Act 3

"Somehow, the void returned" ||

[steep talon]

The way I see it TK has a shell it can store soul and it also has void. Beautiful contrast that wyrm made described by some NPC. Now kingsoul allows the shade to have a soul and will instead of just the shell

[charred pollen]

The shell gets destroyed but it maintains it's soul still because the void accepts it
The shell was pks primitive answer to stopping the void from eating the soul, after tk gets void heart it doesn't really need it anymore and in embrace the void and dnm it fully casts off it's shell

(it's shell being the mask ofc)

[steep talon]

More like
It's all void?
Always has been

[steep talon]

Mask and black body is the shell, but yeah I agree

[proper raven]

Bilewater lore?

[craggy smelt]

all the citadel toilets dump out there

and they aren't happy about it

[lime nova]

I still wanna know why Vespa is big but also small

Also is Vespa a higher being???

[lone folio]

Maybe a white lady thing? She was once smaller and then grew

[proper raven]

Putrified ducts lore?

[lime nova]

Possibly. Is that white lady thing confirmed? Or are you just going off the concept art?

[lime nova]

Colonialism is bad and causes pollution

[lone folio]

I'm going off of the fact that she is smaller in the one cutscene where she hands Hornet the flower

[raven knoll]

Quick question, will there be something like godhome in silksong?

[lime nova]

idk if calling Pharloom capitalist is fair actually

[raven knoll]

A place with all the bosses

[lime nova]

It's more fascist

[raven knoll]

[lime nova]

Ask Team Cherry lol

[nimble bronze]

if I had to guess post eating royal jelly, which is what the queens of a hive consume to grow larger for egg laying

[raven knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

[lime nova]

Maybe

I don't think Vespa is a higher being, I think she's on the same tier as Carmelita

Highly powerful warrior queen

[nimble bronze]

Yeah most higher beings have a lifespan a bit longer than a few decades

That and command some natural force

[lime nova]

We have no indication that Vespa died of natural causes

Nor that she only lived a few decades

[odd holly]

I have a theory I just cant prove it

[nimble bronze]

Well A: we know that she wasnt always big when the pale king ruled, B: that the hive kingdom was sealed off from the rest of the world and that she just grew too large to leave it, and that C: the hive kingdom fell to the infection only after she died

The timeframe here doesnt leave for higher being aging, and we dont really have any other cause of death considering they werent getting attacked by anything beforehand

[lime nova]

I mean yeah I think it's pretty clear that the guy who makes the silkeaters for you is the one who mated with the huntress, being a weak male bug that believes in strong female bugs, and appearing to be the same species as a strong female bug with eggs

[quartz salmon]

where is this room in the first image

[odd holly]

yeah its not said though so we can't prove it

[odd holly]

above styx using silk soar

[lime nova]

Sure, but until we get a deconfirmation I'm gonna pretty much treat it as fact

[quartz salmon]

i seee

[lime nova]

Ohhhh neat

[odd holly]

thats what im on about im just wondering if anyone can prove it

[lime nova]

Oh ok

I personally don't need it proven

I think part of the fun is the unanswered mysteries

[odd holly]

prolly ran outa fear of getting eaten like many male bugs do irl

[lime nova]

Or they got divorced (sad)

[odd holly]

Styx didnt relize he liked doms till after the divorce and he using hornet to cope

[lime nova]

Ain't no way

Because have you seen his ex wife?

[odd holly]

yeah pictured above

[lime nova]

She was absolutely his mistress before Hornet

[odd holly]

yeah im mostly joking but def

[lime nova]

Lol

[odd holly]

def evidence towards Styx's "relationship preferences"

it lines up

[lime nova]

Yeah

[odd holly]

either that

or he ran cause citidel was gonna make him pay 30,000 rosaries monthly in child support

[ancient dock]

Probably ran away in fear of being eaten by Huntress

[odd holly]

i outright said that

[lime nova]

Lol

[hot crow]

I think he would've been into that ngl dudes a freak

[lime nova]

A freak but also a coward

Probably fantasizes about being eaten by her now that he left

[odd holly]

he definetly didnt wanna get freaky the void masses

[lime nova]

Like "ugh if only I didn't run away"

[hot crow]

I hate that I can't even deny that I dont like that mental image

but youre right

[odd holly]

honestly the kids prolly woulda ate em not the huntress

since we see huntress actually devoured

[hot crow]

styx WISHES he could match leg eaters freak

[lime nova]

Also true

[odd holly]

id say he close

[fringe iris]

wtf ant women

[lime nova]

He just can't follow through

[odd holly]

what did i get caught doing wrong this time

[hot crow]

letting hunters march be like that

I just want my skull mask man

[odd holly]

i aint even found in hunters march

[fringe iris]

nothing bad just strange that ant women here, i personally am a crust enjoyer

[lime nova]

Btw there appears to be a secret path near the Karmelita fight? Like a locked door?

[hot crow]

exactly get yo ass back home and get it together ‼️

[odd holly]

king of letting it crust ahh

[hot crow]

that goes crazy

[fringe iris]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/431122901886828554/747773377405648926/democonga.gif

[odd holly]

hear me out

what if instead

[hot crow]

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-rising-hmm-thinking-smile-gif-12571277

I still haven't forgiven you for changing your name from carmelita since pre-release. keeps tripping me up everytime I try to type it out

evil

[odd holly]

carmel

[hot crow]

my theory is team cherry changed the name specifically and only because they hate me and want me to mispell it

[fringe sundial]

Wait what are these shots? I swear when I went back ||to huntress she was just missing, not dying with a bursting chest wound and a child on the ceiling?||

[odd holly]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1389416046087372891/1419783313874358407/EhPet.gif

[odd holly]

in act 3 if you dont do long claw quest

atleast thats what i think it was

[fringe sundial]

Oh I'd assumed it was a necessary quest to do act 3 so you don't miss the stuff when she disappears

I assume long claw just shows up there then?

[hot crow]

man i can't wait for 5 years from now where im still gonna be learning about some obscure niche interaction with 14 prerequisites. this game is so cool

[lime nova]

Cut content

That sprite isn't actually used

If Team Cherry weren't cowards you'd have seen it

[odd holly]

oh

[fringe sundial]

The child or the eaten huntress?

[odd holly]

i grabbed it from the wiki

[fringe sundial]

Or both I suppose

[odd holly]

i think the runt is still there

it gives you the quest in act 3

[lime nova]

I think it's pretty clear that early on in development Karmelita and Khan were alive, as we see a living coral forest, I think TC made the decision to make them a thing of the past as a way to show how Pharloom had fallen into disarray due to the citadel

Supposed to be a take on colonialism

And how native life is lost when a new power takes over

[hot crow]

its so sad most of the coral forest got cut but that makes sense

[lime nova]

Pale King was genuinely such a chill guy to the other bugs living in Hallownest. Silk would've wiped out the mantis tribe overnight

[hot crow]

its so pretty..

[fringe sundial]

I assumed the living coral forest was just a bigger memory area

[lime nova]

I think it was the sands of Karak, just a tileswap

[odd holly]

sands of karak makes me not happy

[hot crow]

even if it would've been mechanically identical I'd take it over sands i loveddd the aesthetic, was one of my most looked forward to areas from the trailers

[zinc pivot]

At least they could’ve made coral tower a platforming challenge too

[brisk finch]

I'm not sure if anyone responded (discord doesn't like loading up lol) but there's a placeholder for Godhome mode in the menu
So it's very likely

[lime nova]

Though I think there's beauty in that. The area we never get to see because of what was taken from us. In real life the coral reefs are dying because of humanity, in HK they died because of spiders

[hot crow]

[raven knoll]

There is hope...

[brisk finch]

I've tried to imagine what Coral would've been like (especially with the fact that the judges are Coral Judges), but I just can't
I can't imagine going from Coral to the Citadel

[lime nova]

Good art makes you feel things. Grief over a dead world is part of that

[brisk finch]

I assumed pre-launch that they'd wait until they felt done with adding dlc and dlc bosses, if that helps

[lime nova]

That makes a lot of sense lol

[brisk finch]

Coral as an area would have been beautiful, but it could not persist with the Citadel next door
We must kill the- uh... oh they're already dead

[lime nova]

My pantheon 5 isn't gonna have Shakra and Garmond and Zaza lol

[zinc pivot]

A gripe i have is with the hunters march, like in the old trailer it looks much more developed

[lime nova]

I think that's for the same reason sadly

[hot crow]

would've been cool for it to be a wider area like lost verdania

both the march and coral

[lime nova]

Did you fight Karmelita?

[lime nova]

Yeah

[amber bridge]

While everyone calls Hornet of Weaver lineage, Mister Mushroom is the only NPC who calls Hornet „Child of Wyrm“, completely disregarding the „Weaver“ part of hers. Only other NPC, Widow, calls for both.

[lime nova]

Once again, I think we're supposed to want this

[odd holly]

"What Is Remembered Is Never Lost."

[zinc pivot]

I did, but again the old trailer shows sign of large settlement and architecture

[lime nova]

If we didn't want to see these areas in their former glory, the messaging wouldn't have hit the same

[odd holly]

totally not an ad for The Memorium of Pharloom.

[hot crow]

I mean regardless of how you thematically interpret its absence its still pretty clearly cut content they originally were gonna include lmao, judging by the trailers

[zinc pivot]

So it is just major halcyon baiting

This is worse than Putrified Ducts

[amber bridge]

i.e. for a game whole focus is mainly and solely about the Weavers, Mister Mushroom is more concerned about her being a Wyrm child and mentions literally nothing about Weaver lineage. Or am I looking too much into it

[lime nova]

For sure, though I think the thematic reasons are why they cut it

[hot crow]

fair enough

its not like they gaf about time lmao

[lime nova]

I think a couple other npcs mention Hornet's wyrm part

[odd holly]

funny you mention that cause of the crust guys journal entires yap on how harsh the rule woulda been

[zinc pivot]

The wyrm part is the part that plays into Kingdoms fate the most really

[winter iris]

The weavers themselves, in the red memory, state:
"Show us you are more weaver than Wyrm"

[zinc pivot]

With Mr Mushroom being centered around the rise and fall of kingdoms

[odd holly]

Oh, Excuse Me

[charred pollen]

Mister mushroom is mister mushroom, he presumably has spent more time in hollownest than in farow. Tell me, in hallownest is the pk(a wyrm) or the weavers more important? The pale king obviously so mister mushroom would recognize hornet as the child of the pale king first and the child of a weaver second

[odd holly]

is willow naked cause she has no shell or is that brown thing an outfit?

[amber bridge]

Mostly because they are aware of it through the Kingdom of Hallownest via news, telegram or somethinglikethat systems in a way. That‘s how they even know and decided to capture Hornet (there is a readable in the Citadel that details the kidnapping plan). Mister Mushroom on the other hand however is not like the kind of guy who would heard of Wyrm lineage through „normal means“ given his vague, plaque way of speech i.e. it’s rather he may be close to a higher being or a being who is beyond that of normal bugs.

[zinc pivot]

Naked
Which really isn’t a problem in HK

[odd holly]

fair enough

[zinc pivot]

Unless you are facing Kratt

[odd holly]

Kratt will be Kratt

[flint wadi]

the brown bag is her makeshift mask/cloak

[zinc pivot]

Thats cloth

[flint wadi]

brown potato sack

[hot crow]

I mean tbf if hornet wasn't short as hell for a weaver her cloak would probably cover just as much

[amber bridge]

I’d wager he places Wyrm root even far more important and he doesn‘t see any purpose and sense of even unterging the word „Weaver“ like they’re insignificant. Otherwise he could‘ve easily called her „child of wyrm and weaver“, just like Widow. Maybe we can‘t
comprehend his mind yet

[zinc pivot]

Cloth the Cicada that whacks Traitor Lord

[lime nova]

The interesting thing for me to think about is how there are almost certainly kingdoms in the world of Hollow Knight that are functioning well and actually in their hayday

Imagining those in this world feels so alien

[zinc pivot]

Willow is the shroom eater

[odd holly]

she got that pale king in her

[flint wadi]

live brown potato sack

[zinc pivot]

She’s dead

[flint wadi]

past tense

[brisk finch]

I actually think Silksong has made it easier to imagine, just because we have settlements now

[charred pollen]

Yea, it's possible. And it would make sense considering he isn't a weaver so why would he give an f that hornet is half spider when the other half is "god that grants sentience and has made a nigh on eternal kingdom"
One of those halves sound way more important if you're not related to the weavers

[hot crow]

do u guys think before hallownests downfall hornet was self conscious in deepnest for being short as hell and not having a beachball for a head

[odd holly]

id argue maybe not

[lime nova]

Maybe. But also more difficult, in that the only ones we see have fallen from their former glory. We never saw any of it as it was

[zinc pivot]

She does takes issue with being unable to fly

[brisk finch]

She was already Different in so many ways, it can be hard to say if her body was something she focused on

[lime nova]

Possibly? She spent very little of her life in deepnest, she was raised in the palace

[odd holly]

nah she moved on from that

[brisk finch]

I feel like Bellhart probably resembles itself the most, you have someone working their 9-5 keeping Shellwood at bay, a mayor, people working their normal jobs
Real estate on the market

pre act 3, of course

[charred pollen]

It's possible but it's also possible the world is in heavy decline. I mean we can already assume the wyrms went extinct which sounds like a pretty clear sign that the world is on the decline. Perhaps all the kingdoms in this world are mere vestiges of their former glory with only a few exceptions

[lime nova]

Yeah, though that pales in comparison to what the Citadel would've looked like in its prime, idk

[zinc pivot]

Ngl if hornet knows more about weaver tech she could craft wings and such

And now she has access to all

[hot crow]

or she could just grab some from a bigass bird

ez

[lime nova]

Maybe? But it's just as possible that's not the case. All we've seen are two dead kingdoms

[odd holly]

weavers dont fly tho

[zinc pivot]

Big ass bird blessed her with a cloak

[brisk finch]

Citadel or City of Tears would be mind boggling, I do agree

[lime nova]

The Pale King literally had wings

[brisk finch]

wyrm

[zinc pivot]

The whole point of mt fay is a pilgrimage for fays blessing

[flint wadi]

hornet is not the pale king

[odd holly]

pale king is a fully higher being and not a weaver

[charred pollen]

True, but it also just feels like a grim dark world
God seekers and pilgrims seem to suggest that even these run down kingdoms are the best options around which isn't really good is it

[brisk finch]

It's funny that no one seemed to quite know that

[lime nova]

I'm not responding to you two lol

I'm aware Hornet does not have wings

[hot crow]

shes still part wyrm so it would've made sense for a young hornet to think she might get wings

[brisk finch]

Honestly, it might've even been possible
Not like there's a lot of people to look at for knowledge of how exactly a weaver/wyrm baby will develop

[odd holly]

also was the wings genetic? or like a modifications cause it is an upgrade in hk

[lime nova]

Also, is Hornet even fully developed? We see her take on Silk's form in the bad ending, but I have to wonder if she'll ever approach a form beyond her current one

[brisk finch]

Not sure PK would experiment on himself for power/abilities

[odd holly]

idk.... no cost too great

[brisk finch]

I feel like it may be similar to Shade Lord
Technically physically possible, but not actually normal development

[hot crow]

I like the implication that itd just be a roulette wheel of random traits from both sides. pk has a second weaver baby and it comes out with an orb head and wings

[lime nova]

Valid

[charred pollen]

We can assume pk kinda decided to give himself wings, he chose to make his vessel closer to his subjects which seems to suggest he got to control how he would look.

[lime nova]

Yeah

[brisk finch]

Ye like how mixed siblings can sometimes look like completely different ethnicities

[lime nova]

Yeah

Herrah was clearly woven from a different common bug than the majority of the Weavers, I'm really curious if that bug exists in Silksong or if it'll be added as DLC or something

[hot crow]

my interpretation based on hornets insistence that shes not a child and is very old and etc that she is probably fully developed for a pale weaver, but doing some freaky higher being stuff like we see when she slurps up silk, she can evolve further

[lime nova]

Most Weavers were pharlids

[brisk finch]

I actually think Hornet may be at her peak, or at least uh
You know the difference between boss Karmelita and old Karmelita? I think Hornet may still be able to grow, but she's already mature

[lime nova]

I dunno, she's obviously definitely an adult, but she's gonna live a long time, idk

[hot crow]

true

[charred pollen]

She is at the end of her current path, the only way for further growth is weird shi like taking over for GSM

[hot crow]

its possible she could also grow a Lot and take after her mom

[lime nova]

I really wanna learn more about Hornet's past loves

[odd holly]

i thought it was all weavers are spiders but not all spiders are weavers

[brisk finch]

Maybe if you give her another INSERT LONG AGE she'd end up as tall as THK, but I think that's separate from maturity

[charred pollen]

That exists?

[hot crow]

prequel dating sim let's go

[brisk finch]

Honestlky, that also ties into it
I cannot see team cherry explicitly putting under age sex references in the game lol and then show that protagonist naked
Even with the stick graphics

[lime nova]

That is true, but the first sinner cutscene shows a common bug being formed into a weaver, and it resembles the bug it was woven from. I have to imagine Herrah was a different bug before being made into a weaver

[brisk finch]

The combination of that makes it seem, to me, that we're probably meant to read her as a (young) adult

[hot crow]

shes old as hell I read her as like a spry 50 year old in human years

[lean temple]

Wyrm Hornet when

[lime nova]

In the journal entry for the big conchflies she mentions trying to mate for life but that she always outlived her partners

I've gotten pushback for this, but in her convo with Eva, she also implies she tried to have kids and failed

[odd holly]

i read that as pharlids arnt inherintly weavers

[lime nova]

......yes

[odd holly]

which brings up another question

[brisk finch]

Could you share the quote?

[lime nova]

Which one?

[brisk finch]

The Eva one

[lime nova]

Oh I gotchu

[brisk finch]

Darn you slowmode XD

[charred pollen]

Honestly it's kinda cute that hornet wanted to live out a life with someone. It's also sad that due to being half higher being that desire was impossible to fulfill

[brisk finch]

Little Weavers feel, to me, like a remnant of the Spider Mage idea from HK, not the Weaver concept as we know it now
or even as we knew it in HK

[hot crow]

and now shes got lace to live forever with its perfect

[brisk finch]

But they're still in the game and therefore must be taken into account

[odd holly]

hear me out

[brisk finch]

I like her and Shakra, but the appeal of Hornet having an immortal partner is just too great

[lime nova]

"I know the curse well, Eva, for I am also it's victim, and spawn of one who managed to overcome its limits. "

[brisk finch]

She deserves the stability after losing everything she;s ever known

[hot crow]

insane message if you dont look at the reply part

[charred pollen]

Is lace gonna agree to that though? She still refuses to accept she even counts as a living being

[odd holly]

Karmelita's hear me out cake

[brisk finch]

Oh I remember that, actually. I read it as "my existence is Like This because of the curse" but the and
hmmmmm

makes you think

[lime nova]

To me, Hornet implying she "knows the curse well" implies she herself has dealt with it personally

[brisk finch]

She did just get saved by Hornet and her mom, and they have plenty of time to work on stuff

[lean temple]

I feel they could be artificial beings the Weavers created. Another attempt at creating life maybe?

[lime nova]

Yes, exactly, the and

[brisk finch]

Do we have evidence of artificial but clearly alive (infected) beings created by the Weavers?

[hot crow]

hornet can fix her

[charred pollen]

But even with her mom going through all that pain to protect her she found joy in making her suffer. And she doesn't care about her life, she planned to die. So why should she feel grateful to hornet?

[lime nova]

I personally believe Hornet has had miscarriages, but that pissed off a lot of people last night lmao

[lean temple]

Well no, but I was trying to rationalise the lil Weavers based on what we know now about how advanced the Weavers were

[charred pollen]

Is there any evidence of this?

[brisk finch]

I don't think they'll instantly be happy, but they have all the time in the world to peel back to layers

[brisk finch]

Fair enough!

[left oyster]

DAMN IT TEAM CHERRY we coulda gotten Pale grandkids

I think White Lady would be an awesome grandma

[lime nova]

It doesn't really go further than the evidence that she's tried to have children. I interpret the weaver curse as more of an inability to deliver than an inability to conceive

[left oyster]

Since herrah is
Dead as hell

[odd holly]

or little weavers happen when a daddy weaver and a mommy weaver love eachother very much

[brisk finch]

We still don't have evidence of "daddy weavers", which is part of the issue

Otherwise it'd be the logical conclusion

[hot crow]

every weaver ever is lesbian

[lime nova]

I don't believe Silk has ever had a male progeny

[lean temple]

And the problem with the curse

[charred pollen]

I fully believe hornet has tried to have children, wanting to live your life with your lover and wanting children often go hand in hand. But I would be more likely to think that she simply failed to get pregnant on account of being a half higher being half weaver hybrid which would probably complicate things

[brisk finch]

We only have evidence of the Weavers/false daughters, Phantom and Lace
So ay

[odd holly]

didnt deepnest have a king at some point or was that all fanon

[brisk finch]

they had a "sire" contrasted with herrah as "mother"

[hot crow]

I think it was cut content iirc

[lime nova]

So, to me, the implication that the weaver curse is painful implies that conception was not the problem, but that's just me, idk

[brisk finch]

Not cut content, you're thinking of the big spider sprite

[hot crow]

right yea

[lean temple]

It did but he was not a Weaver

[brisk finch]

Anyway, all we know is that a sire existed
But clearly he did not sire Hornet with the "mother" so...

[left oyster]

It makes sense since Silk didn't have a partner, so any gendering would come from her specifically

[odd holly]

we also dont know if the weavers are exlusivley female

[brisk finch]

The only gender evidence is FS's Daughters comment

ANd the fact that all we meet are female or ungendered

[lean temple]

That is heavily implied to be the case

[charred pollen]

It does suggest that when weavers do want children they simply use other bugs for the deed.
Which makes sense

[lime nova]

As far as we know, Silk has never had a biological child lol

[brisk finch]

The issue is we don't know if he sired any with weavers
There's plenty of non weaver bugs in deepnest

[olive glen]

He filled up on orange jam

[brisk finch]

It seems likely he didn't

[lime nova]

The Weavers are just common bugs woven into a different form, and Lace and Phantom are just purely silk

[brisk finch]

Why else would Herrah insist on a child with PK in return for, essentially, her life?

[hot crow]

not yet. let me in there

[lime nova]

Oh my fucking god lmao

[odd holly]

many complicated reasons

[lime nova]

Because who wouldn't want their child to be part god?

[brisk finch]

Skong seems to make it clear she did not care for an ultra powerful heir of some kind, she just wanted a kid

[lime nova]

Also the child is more likely to survive if it has god blood

[odd holly]

i didnt state that as a reason

[brisk finch]

Which suggests struggles with the baby process specifically, yes. Can't just use any old bug, that's my point

[lean temple]

True. She tells Hornet to not pay the Weavers any attention because they wanted Hornet to be a queen instead of GMS

[brisk finch]

I or it?

[lime nova]

Ehhh I disagree. She wanted a powerful child. She just didn't want one bound by the expectations of her society

[real escarp]

One thing continues to bug me. Why did the citadel want weaver descendants when they have GMS, who is the source of all silk?

[charred pollen]

But herreh did sire with a wyrm and assuming there are no male weavers they must be willing to sire with other bug species to even know that it hurts a lot to give birth. Also hornet didn't seem to have any revulsion to dating other presumably non weaver bugs. It's kinda like the gerudo people in Zelda as far as I can tell, all females so they find other races(bugs) to sire children when they want them

[odd holly]

I, cause i just said many complicated reasons could be used

[lime nova]

Yes, and likely go through a lot of pain in childbirth

[brisk finch]

Dating =/= making a child
Attempting to make a child and miscarry (aka childbirth) =/= spawning children
And the wyrm child is explicitly a part of a deal with a guy who knows how to make artificial children. Either his godly "blood" (you know what I mean) or his research may have played a big role

[lean temple]

Eva explicitly says it's painful for them to try having kids

[odd holly]

this has basically become spider sex ed 101

[hot crow]

finally

team cherry when are you gonna give us the Hornet Sex lore

[brisk finch]

that's the next dlc, building on what was written in the hunter's journal

[odd holly]

thats funny to me tho cause typically that tends to be the case for normal people (atleast irl)

[brisk finch]

May not be for bugs who lay eggs

[odd holly]

the humor is still there

[left oyster]

Never doubt the Wyrm's worm

He's just REALLLY fertile have you seen the Abyss

[lean temple]

It is painful but not to the point of also being near impossible

[lime nova]

And the story of Adam and Eve from the bible says that's because God cursed Eve for eating the fruit, so I see a lot of parallels in Silk and the Weavers

[charred pollen]

You are technically correct in that nothing explicitly confirms they sire with other bug species. However come on, herrah literally married another bug species, hornet wanted to have children with other bug species, the weavers despite having no males know that childbirth hurts so they must have been given a child by a male of a different species right? Like it's as close to direct confirmation as you can possibly get

The weavers are fine with siring with other bug species

[brisk finch]

Let's credit White Lady where it's due, ay

[hot crow]

since white ladys a tree do u think she grew the vessel eggs like fruit

[left oyster]

True, true

[lime nova]

I stand by Adam and Eve being at least partial inspiration for Silksong

[left oyster]

Oh my God bruh

[lean temple]

It makes sense GMS made them that way specifically so their numbers don't get out of control

[brisk finch]

"married' even that isn't stated in HK, we get 1 single tablet

[odd holly]

finally the real questions

[lime nova]

Yeah for sure

[charred pollen]

That's pedantic, it doesn't change any of my points, just the terminology

[vague whale]

Truly something to ponder in these trying times

[brisk finch]

It does because it means Herrah herself may not have had a partner at all
Which removes that piece of evidence

[odd holly]

on Radiance we all love semantics

[brisk finch]

I try not to be pedantic for no reason, I promise

[brisk finch]

Didn't they come from eggs?

[left oyster]

Would White Lady be a good adoptive grandmama to Hornet's hypothetical children

[brisk finch]

Or am I mixing up things

[odd holly]

yeah i was joking

[vague whale]

Probably not

[brisk finch]

WHO LAID THE EGGS
THE ROOT OR THE WYRM

[lime nova]

There are Weavers in twelfth part I believe? If I'm remembering the cradle room correctly. I have to wonder if the curse was always a thing or if it happened after Silk abandoned the Weavers because they defied her

[zinc pivot]

Shes blind so idk

[lean temple]

Saying their mother and sire together implies a partnership between the two. TC isn't just gonna say everything directly because they almost never do

[hot crow]

no shes senile. or treenile

[lime nova]

The root prolly?

[vague whale]

Vespa would've been so nice though... RIP you legend

[odd holly]

wait since when was she Senile?

[lean temple]

She wasn't even a good mother to her own kids soooo

[brisk finch]

see, it doesn't for me because it's using two different terms terms
also
for clarity

[lean temple]

She's blind and maybe going deaf

[hot crow]

shes not i just think its funny if she was

[brisk finch]

this is all of the sire info

"This border bounds the twisting, scratching things. Their dead sire, once of honoured caste. Their sealed mother, but the common beast."

[odd holly]

wildly different circumstances but ok

[zinc pivot]

She cant see clearly, mistook us for her great knights and her husband

[lean temple]

Mother and sire aren't two different terms. Sire means dad

[odd holly]

those can all be explained

[brisk finch]

I know it literally means that, but they do not use the equivelant for Herrah

[lean temple]

They literally say mother

[brisk finch]

+if it's literal, that implies Herrah specifically is parent to a shitton of deepnest bugs
Which breaks almost all logic we have

[vague whale]

Simple, it's not literal

[lean temple]

She says time has clouded her eyes and she cannot see much. She's getting old

[zinc pivot]

Maybe thats where the little weavers come from

[odd holly]

1. Blindness doesnt mean Mental Illness, 2, she mistakes ogrim being in the room while you have his smelly charm. and 3. she could sence the pale king in the knight cause blood related and knows it isnt him and doesnt speak about it on clarification

[brisk finch]

I have run into a language issue and am stopping this convo cause I think you're just right there
I convinced myself there was a female archaic equivelant for "sire", but there isn't as far as I can tell?

[brisk finch]

So if it's not literal, then there's no evidence they were married and she was birthing

[lean temple]

Who said anything about mental illness?? What? Senile means she's getting old

[odd holly]

thats not true

[hot crow]

I remember why I dont look at public discords keeping up with all the different theory threads here is going to explode my poor little adhd head like an egg in a microwave

I don't actually know if an egg would explode in a microwave. but I would assume so

[brisk finch]

I think they do?

[vague whale]

you should see what happens to grapes.

[brisk finch]

Pop goes the (vessel) egg

[heavy falcon]

Is steel soul the "canon" way to play the game?

[odd holly]

se·nile- (of a person) having or showing the weaknesses or diseases of old age, especially a loss of mental faculties.

[hot crow]

new theory: hornet microwaves a egg

[vague whale]

no

[green yoke]

https://tenor.com/view/styropyro-egg-microwave-macrowave-explode-gif-7850930638465621966

[brisk finch]

There's no reason (yet) to choose one version over the other
Either way characters disappear (Styx/Skynx, Confessor Jiji/Steelsoul Jinn etc)

[lean temple]

The word isn't accurate then. Doesn't negate that she's getting old

[hot crow]

📝

[odd holly]

i never said she wasnt old

[brisk finch]

TBF "old" doesn't mean the same thing for deities

[heavy falcon]

I see, I forgot about replaced NPCs. Thank you!

[brisk finch]

I do think Summoned Saviour is absolutely fascinating in Skong's

[lean temple]

Steel Soul is more canon since 1- death is permanent and 2- jiji and Jinn are both in hallownest at the same time anyway. Jiji is the vassal for Jinn

[odd holly]

then we would be arguing over nothing cause that wasnt the point

[hot crow]

guys I just wanted to make the stupid treenile joke please

[brisk finch]

The void just summons vessel masks now lol

[charred pollen]

Let me ask you
If

1. There are no male weavers
2. The weavers still give birth to children as they know it hurts
   Where in the hell did the male come from? Why are you fighting so hard against the idea that the weavers were willing to do it with other bug species? It's an obvious ideal when they have no males on their own

[brisk finch]

But Skynx kills Styx

[brisk finch]

I am specifically going against the idea that Herrah was married

We know weaver mixes exist because of an entire room in skong, I'm not disagreeing with in game text XD

[lean temple]

Well at least it applies to HK. In siksong idk about the styx and skynx bit

[odd holly]

nah i get that keep your head down and you wont get caught in the crossfire

[brisk finch]

It also kills uh
the rancid egg guy

in HK

[charred pollen]

Oh, I don't particularly care about that, herrah had a sire which is definitely an so relationship but was that marriage? Who the hell knows, do weavers even have a concept of marriage? I don't know and don't particularly care

[hot crow]

[odd holly]

Tuk?

[lime nova]

Okay here's my theory. The weaver birth curse is an actual, literal curse on the weavers from Silk that destroys any child conceived by a weaver, and only an egg sired by a being of equal power to Silk can overcome this curse and hatch

[lean temple]

Shit true. Alternate timeline?

[brisk finch]

Then I think we mostly agree lol

Tuk, yes

Ye Steel Soul and main game are just what ifs of each other, I'd say. Equally canon until HK3 mentions Hornet having fought Summoned Saviour

[charred pollen]

Very little evidence, in fact based off the wording they seem capable of having children it just hurts like hell. They never say it's impossible just that it hurts.

[vale plover]

How old is lace.

[odd holly]

i think ima call it a night

[lime nova]

Hmmm, I'm not sure, they say it's nearly impossible and that it hurts, not that those two are related

[lean temple]

If the problem is marriage specifically or if she had a boyfriend then there's nothing to argue really. She was in a relationship whatever the term for it is

[hot crow]

arent the little fuckers in deepnest young weavers. where would they have come from

[brisk finch]

Ah, then we do disagree
I don;'t think that line implies a relationship between the sire and Herrah
Which matters to me because I don't like assumptions (even tho I make plenty myself)

[vale plover]

me

[lime nova]

Honestly I have no fucking clue. The little weavers make very little sense to me

[brisk finch]

They parent deepnest, that is stated

[hot crow]

[brisk finch]

Also yes, on a literal level the little weavers are almost certainly just assets from the Spider Mage era of development (aka the sprite now known as the Weavers)

That weren't considered because the Weaver plot didn't exist yet in this form

[lime nova]

Possibly

[lean temple]

I see. Well to me it does imply a relationship of some sort. Herrah being the queen of deepnest despite being a foreigner because she's a Weaver leaves only a relationship with the native ruler as an option for her status

[vale plover]

Why hornet doesnt have a massive head?

[odd holly]

but they exist so it does matter

[hot crow]

dude a weavers center of balance must be AWFUL

[brisk finch]

I think the weavers were just scary

[brisk finch]

Agreed

I just also think it may not all fit perfectly because of that past

[lean temple]

She inherited Herrah's head

[vale plover]

i think its good for staying upside down

[lime nova]

That's a mask made by silk, she's not directly Silk's creation

[charred pollen]

I think you need to slow down, we don't even have proof GSM could make such a curse. Theories are fun and all but back them up with solid proof before going off the deep end

[lime nova]

Uh

[charred pollen]

Uh what? If GSM could curse the weavers she would do something far worse than make birth painful

[vale plover]

oooh true
thats wholesome

now why is errah's head not massive

[brisk finch]

I don't think there's enough evidence to show that GMS is capable of curses like that, but character wise she absolutely would've

[lean temple]

We have Hornet at home:

[charred pollen]

Would have if she could have 100%

[odd holly]

yeah pretty much

[charred pollen]

But if she could curse them she wouldn't stop at birth is difficult

[lean temple]

I don't think like literal magic curse. More like a design choice with their biology

[steep talon]

Possibly wasn't intended to be a weaver at first. But then Ari should have just drawn more diverse weaver in ss

[lime nova]

I just... I don't see why you gotta be all aggro about it idk

[vale plover]

yeah but like other weavers have massive heads that arent masks (i think)
she doesnt

[brisk finch]

...that's a good point. it could very well be a conscious choice she made to prevent more spawns she couldn't control
It wasn't perfect, so some half weavers do still manage to survive

[lime nova]

Herrah doesn't

[lean temple]

Yep

[charred pollen]

I'm not trying to be aggro, just asking you to back up your theories is all

[vale plover]

Hornet's weird cousin
wasp

[odd holly]

weaver heads arnt that massive under the shell cause of widow

just long

[lean temple]

The orbs are masks. We see Widow head without her mask is pretty thin like the rest of her body

[lime nova]

Okay. I think I interpret a few lines of dialogue differently than you, I'm not sure

[vale plover]

ok but why then 🥀

[brisk finch]

ye it seems like Weavers (as of Skong) do resemble Herrah
Long thin heads
She just doesn't mask fully

[lime nova]

Widow's was removed, it's possible hers was too

[vale plover]

i missed that. any pic?

[left oyster]

I still think that White Lady would be a good grandmother cause she wouldnt need to be distant and stuff

[odd holly]

shes very [SPECIL]

[left oyster]

pipis

[brisk finch]

Which also implies there may be way more variety in head shape
Just
under the mask

[lime nova]

Yeah

[vale plover]

oh

whats that hornet pose tho

[lime nova]

The little weavers kinda resemble the mid stages of the first sinner transformation cutscene

[lean temple]

Still doesn't explain the bottom half of Herrah

[left oyster]

Herrah is just built different ok

[hot crow]

can't a girl be silly

[vale plover]

why is removing a mask so dramatic

[lean temple]

Yeah ik. I think it was likely a retcon and we won't be able to logic it out until TC provide an explanation from their end

[vale plover]

mb

[hot crow]

herrahs a bbb (big beautiful bug)

[odd holly]

masks are idenity

[lime nova]

Masks are literally their faces, to have a face is to exist

[vale plover]

so you think hornet has 6 eyes?

[lime nova]

Talk to mask maker

[left oyster]

Dude I love how the Pale King had so much sex it eventually ended up saving both Hallownest and Pharloom.

Never doubt the Wyrm's worm.

[steep talon]

It makes bugs insane kinda, widow might have been insane even before

[lime nova]

No, she has two because of Pale King

[odd holly]

https://tenor.com/view/totr-totя-meme-spongebob-totya-gif-2321838813784867908

[vale plover]

it was calculated

[brisk finch]

It makes Mask Maker "lucid"

[lean temple]

I mean the torture also could've driven her insane

[odd holly]

we have 2 mask makers now canonically

[left oyster]

Pale King's plan was having a lot of sex with magic involved

And it worked beyond what was planned initially

The definition of trust the process

[lean temple]

That's a special case. Mask Makers have "the sight" which distracts them from their work so they wear masks to focus better

[odd holly]

id imagine having ones silk bound usless by heavy pins would have an effect

[lime nova]

Why was Widow even tortured? Supposedly Widow is doing the Bellhart stuff voluntarily?

[vale plover]

i see
do we ever see a maskless bug?

[brisk finch]

Which shows that removing a mask doesn't have just 1 effect: the effect depends on what the mask is actually doing

[lean temple]

Because she sided with GMS

[odd holly]

mask maker after you use decending dark (i think)

[hot crow]

maybe the citadel just thought she was annoying

[steep talon]

There is this weird memory of widow in cradle. Don't remember if she had pins in her, but she was definitely crazy there

[brisk finch]

Even a lot of the smaller bugs (the bird like ones who fly away befoe you can hit them) are masked

[lime nova]

OH SHE WAS TORTURED BY THE WEAVERS

[vale plover]

nah we dont even see anything

[lime nova]

Huh?

[left oyster]

Widow is just delulu

[vale plover]

thats insane

[humble charm]

Wait, so I just beat Act ||3||, does this mean that ||the GEKGOO ending is the canon ending? That's the only one where you become the liddle biddy shadowbeast, right?||

[lean temple]

"Maskflies"

[vale plover]

all we see is his weird eyes

[lime nova]

For Hallownest's faceless, I shall provide

[lean temple]

Possibly, yes. Or godhome

[odd holly]

I'll take fault... he says "It sees the face beneath! Or could it be just another mask?
Truth in Hallownest is always buried deep. How many layers will it pry through?"

[humble charm]

No if it was the lattermost he would be the ginormous monster shadowbeast, right?

[hot crow]

theres a flash of shadelord in the cutscene, it could be godhome

[lean temple]

Idk if Void Given Focus is a permanent form or not

[steep talon]

People also think Dream no more. But I lean more towards pantheon cause we don't see the hollow knights shade. But still it could be either

[charred pollen]

No, no, stop, it hurts
It's just as possible tk failed(an often forgotten about ending that technically happenes everytime you die)
Or that tk wasn't hollow when taking over for thk, or that tk embraces the void and eats up all the souls in hallownest

[left oyster]

Mask Makers to Team Cherry:

[charred pollen]

Pk didn't necessarily save jack shit

[lime nova]

I lean towards they made it vague so both are possible

[vale plover]

im falling asleep bye

[odd holly]

bye bye

[lime nova]

Lmao

[lean temple]

For the timeline of sister of the Void it works out

[vale plover]

like im so sorry 😭

[left oyster]

Delicate Flower:

[steep talon]

Yee, 100% both could be real

[odd holly]

"To change a face; to conceal it fully within another... A powerful protection that is, but one with sad consequence.
The original mind is destroyed, though those of striking will may still retain a sliver of that concealed self."

[vale plover]

i felt my body collapse i know i dont have much time

[left oyster]

WAIT DID WIDOW GO CRAZY BECAUSE SHE GOT HER MASK REMOVED

[humble charm]

One would assume that it's a side effect of the Godtuner/Godseekers

It's the maximum potential of the Shade Lord

[brisk finch]

Crazed fanatic able to guide Pharloom's haunted Silk by music played upon it.

Her body seemed a Weaver's, but her mask had been forcibly removed, and her own Silk was bound useless by heavy pins lodged through her spine.

[humble charm]

That's why Hornet sees a flash of it

[lean temple]

She was also kinda tortured and mutilated

[odd holly]

i lean towards godhome cause you can get the dream no more knight as a statue therfore acknowleging it in the world if we take the hall of gods as canon

[charred pollen]

That's another ending yes. But In a lot of endings hallownest is fucked

[humble charm]

I don't think Dream No More is the real ending, honestly

[lean temple]

All things must accept an end

[odd holly]

well its deffinetly i thing that coulda happened

[charred pollen]

Dark souls moment

[lean temple]

Not like Hallownest wasn't already dead anyway

[lime nova]

I'm also going to bed

[lean temple]

Gn

[humble charm]

I think that the 'real' ending is killing Radiance

[hot crow]

I dont want to acknowledge anything in godhome outside the ending as canon because fym vengefly king is as much of a potential god as grimm

[odd holly]

thats not even true

[humble charm]

no they have a point it's a god

[hot crow]

theyre both there in godhome

[lime nova]

It's not lmao

[brisk finch]

Delicate Flower (and mostly, Embrace the Void)

1. Explains why The Hollow Knight isn't in the final shot (it's alive)
2. Shows the effect of the white flower
3. Shows the Shade Lord and how it comes to be
4. Was written last, when Silksong was in production
5. Was written way after the "all endings are canon" comment, which is now proven false (it cannot be Sealed Siblings, as an example)

[charred pollen]

According to team cherry all endings are cannon in their own time line
Silksong happens to be on either the dream no more or embrace the void timeline but that doesn't make any of the other endings less cannon

[left oyster]

If ETV is the canon ending we could get HK3 with THK as the protagonist

We could get a cool-ass mechanic about switching between prosthetic arms like Nero in DMC5

THK hype moments and aura

[lean temple]

The way the Godseekers use "god" has no value outside of them

[honest anvil]

if 100 people enter into a tournament one of them is gonna be the worst. sometimes the difference between top seed and bottom seed is really big

[charred pollen]

Different timelines

[hot crow]

vengefly king is in godhome they see it as a potential god there's no going around that

[brisk finch]

When people say canon they do mean
Canon to silksong here

[odd holly]

they also pick and order in the pantheons the weakest being first

[charred pollen]

Then say that

[hot crow]

a gods a god

[brisk finch]

No other canon matters in this specific scenario, it's the silksong channel

[lime nova]

That's... no they're just using ritual combat to seek more and more powerful beings. You fight Vengefly King first because he's the LEAST powerful

[odd holly]

not all gods are equal especilly in this universe

[humble charm]

Personally I think that it's the vanilla secret ending - It makes the most sense as to why we see the Knight only flash briefly as the Shade Lord, and why we also briefly see him as one of many of the Shadow Vessels

[charred pollen]

It's important when you're trying to be pedantic and say sealed siblings isn't cannon
You need to be specific

[humble charm]

It's Hornet's Wyrm side seeing him

[lean temple]

And not like TC is gonna make content to even account for the like 4 or 5 other timelines. Silksong alone took 6 years if not more

[brisk finch]

*Canon
Sealed Siblings isn't canon to silksong and any other canon isn't relevant to a silksong discussion

[hot crow]

I need to be clear with both of you i am 1000% not serious on this is just think its really funny and dumb that its considered a god by the godseekers in the first place

[flint wadi]

it is in context of hk and its story, its the ultimate conclusion

whether its dnm or etv that silksong picks up from is up to you though

[humble charm]

We literally see the Shade Lord in all three "forms"

[left oyster]

TC made that "all endings are canon" statement way before ETV released and Silksong was announced

It's almost as if the vision and scope of a small indie team's project would...

Change over time

Crazy concept right

[humble charm]

As the mass of Vessels, as the Shade Lord, and as the giant version

[lime nova]

I'm going to bed lol

[lean temple]

Ik. I agree

[left oyster]

Good night

[odd holly]

oh alr i can drop it im just so used to people bein 100% serious all the time

[brisk finch]

I think this is sort of how I view it
DNM is the nicest ending for HK
But EVT/DF works best with silksong

[waxen forum]

what's the lore reason for shaman bind forcing you to the ground

[brisk finch]

snal go brrr

[hot crow]

its ok 90% of what I say is just to be dumb/funny

[honest anvil]

i think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that anybody talking about canon at this point is talking about with the context of silksong being a thing that exists. silksong is now part of the timeline and you can't just ignore it without having to specify you're ignoring it

[left oyster]

If Hornet tried to have children, why didn't she just equip the Glowing Womb charm?

Is she stupid?
(Sure they have a tendency to explode but still)

[odd holly]

embrace the void (with flower) seems to be the best ending for everyone involved

[brisk finch]

Well they only explode with defender's crest ay! And those sprites were used to make the cogfly sprite sheet, so

[odd holly]

considering the whole hk alive thing

[brisk finch]

She did

[flint wadi]

void rules are already shifted around in ss so any shade lord iconography for me is only a hint not a rule

dont forget that etv being the only ending isolates 90% of players who just finished hk for its true ending and couldnt/didnt bother with side content that gatekeeps its ending behind 1 hour of bossfights

[brisk finch]

I do like the implication that THK is alive, partially for emotional reasons (it gets to live 🥹 ) and partially because that opens up the possibility of seeing it used in a dlc

[brisk finch]

I don't think team cherry is all that concerned with everyone being able to see/experience all content, gotta be honest

[charred pollen]

Doesn't that ending kinda suggest tk gets basically killed(perhaps sealed) in the flower? I feel like embrace the void of dream no more are far more likely than delicate flower

[brisk finch]

Like, I get your point, I just don't think they care

[brisk finch]

I've been reading it as a banishing to back from wence it came

whence

[flint wadi]

like, good for sister of void for making it vague honestly

[brisk finch]

I just don't think it's vague when so many elements of it are exclusive to one ending

[lean temple]

So what would the Everbloom do for the Void in Silksong's Abyss then?

[brisk finch]

That's why I bother to argue
I firmly disagree with that statement at its core

[flint wadi]

if they didnt care they wouldnt include the shades at all because everyone who cleared etv knows what shade lord is

[brisk finch]

push it away, as we see

But in DF we're in a kind of dream realm

[odd holly]

void entity not just the knight... it also end with infected creatures being unifected and alive maybe even myla if you didnt kill her

[flint wadi]

like theres no reason to make that distinction if you dont care if players wont get it

[lean temple]

Interesting because that then implies the Void is kinda just unstoppable on a large scale, at least in the Abyss

[brisk finch]

Motivation reasons
We're not looking a the actions of an unknowable deity
it's a sibling trying to save its sister

Visualized

[charred pollen]

My understanding of embrace the void is that it's not some entity controlling tk, it's tk deciding to give in to the voids desire to consume. It's not something you can banish away bc tk isn't being controlled, tk is simply following it's desire as part of the void to consume souls and doing so willingly. Tk is "embracing" the void not being "controlled" by the void

[brisk finch]

Well yes, that's been my assumption XD

[flint wadi]

shade lord is still the knight -> hornets sibling

[brisk finch]

Right, and TK and the rest of the void leaking out of godseeker are then banished

[odd holly]

shade lord isnt just the knight

[brisk finch]

Visual language

It's an ending without dialogue, or any text at all

[flint wadi]

which is irrelevant for people who are aware of the context

[brisk finch]

+You could say they didn't want to completely make it unclear what's happening for people who didn't get the godhome endings
you still see the knight, even if you don't know who the big thing is

[odd holly]

the achevment named: sister of the void

[craggy bison]

What's the lore of bilewater why is it like that

[brisk finch]

Citadel messed them up

[odd holly]

pollution and hatred

[brisk finch]

That';s why Groal is mad

[craggy bison]

But how

[brisk finch]

Seemingly something to do with the exhaust pipes Phantom is in charge of

But I'm willing to be corrected on that

It used to be more similar to Pure Lake

[flint wadi]

why would shade lord (who is the knight) save hornet if not because she is their sibling lol

i just think its silly to consider that tc wouldnt wanna clarify that for people who didnt get etv (which is the majority of people playing silksong)

[odd holly]

and i think the putrified ducts

[zinc pivot]

Pale Lake

[brisk finch]

+You could say they didn't want to completely make it unclear what's happening for people who didn't get the godhome endings
you still see the knight, even if you don't know who the big thing is

[charred pollen]

So why would tk save hornet if tk has already decided to become a being that consumes souls? Let's take a step back and say tk still likes hornet even after embracing the void, tk wouldn't leave, tk would use the void to consume the entirety of farow.
Ofc this is under the assumption embrace the void tk is a being that wants to consume souls and is no longer good, it's possible I'm looking to deep into the title and tk is still tk despite looking like a monster and for some reason wanting to bring the void up to hallownest... For... Idk what good purposes tk could have for doing that

[brisk finch]

Well I dunno what to tell you, either Way Shade Lord is there

They're just not evil?

Which is... fair?

Like, your arguments are against the presence of shade lord entirely

[lean temple]

TK is still TK. The Void in Pharloom was acting independently

[flint wadi]

so they do care about making it understandable to people who cleared hk only for dnm

[charred pollen]

Possible, I prefer that idea myself but it doesn't really explain why tk would bring the void into hallownest in embrace the void? What good purpose could tk have?

[flint wadi]

idk why say they dont

[brisk finch]

Ye. If you only got DNM you can still get most of it
You just don't know who Shade Lord is or why THK isn't there

But I don't think that's ambiguous, because both of those facts only apply to one ending

(two, etv/df but you know what I mean)

[brisk finch]

Overwhelmed, perhaps?

[lean temple]

They're in control of it so would likely just return to the Abyss. They just have to get out of Godseeker's mind first

[brisk finch]

I said they don't care about following up on an accessible ending, not that they don't care about making skong's ending understandable

[odd holly]

keep in mind we know like nothing about the "void entity" besides embrace the void the statue in hall of gods and the flash in sisters of the void

[zinc pivot]

I suddenly wonder if TK is still alive in DF

Or got erased along with Godseeker

[brisk finch]

I always assumed they were, and skong confirms it

the flower isn't that powerful, even if the dream space logic/godseeker abilities may have interacted with it in an odd way

[odd holly]

also the lack of the hollow knights shade has me hopeful

[brisk finch]

(even in HK, ghost can still hold it, even if they're careful about it like white lady says)

[brisk finch]

This
It's not just the one thing, it's multiple elements

[charred pollen]

I like this explanation, it is kinda the thought process I went down when considering why tk might do something like that. I imagine suddenly gaining full control over something thousands of times larger than yourself would be extremely disorienting, and on top of that assuming tk is still good tk would need to keep the void in check to stop it from consuming every soul in sight which is a huge strain. Another thought I had was maybe tk was bringing the void up as a way to protect hallownest, assuming full control over the void it would be incredibly strong defenses against anything trying to harm hallownest

[brisk finch]

I think the etv/df endings are ambiguous about Ghost's mentality and there's multiple ways to read them, but I do think your read here is close to how I see it

[odd holly]

we can agree that ghost isnt hollow right

like they clearly have their own will

[brisk finch]

I mean, ghost's mental state and thought patterns at any point are unknowable to us
but they can give a flower to elder bug, there's a good heart in there

The vessels were never hollow, yep

There is no "hollow" knight, just a kid trying to be
and then a second one

[odd holly]

the whole white lady conspiracy if yk yk

[zinc pivot]

Funny how the vessels are commonly viewed as kids
Which frankly they quite are

[charred pollen]

Definitely not hollow, honestly I kinda doubt a shade lord can be hollow bc the shade lord is supposed to be the will of the void, how can something without the desire to control the void or give it focus become the shade lord?
Also tk saved hornet which shows tk cares about the people it has met

[brisk finch]

Like, I know it's cut
I don't actively consider it during lore discussions
but HK's and PV's dream nail dialogue kills me

the "father"
the "do not hope"

[odd holly]

do not speak

[brisk finch]

[odd holly]

i like the cut dialouge too

do not think...

do not speak...

do not hope...

do not...

[brisk finch]

I do consider it canon, in the same way I considered the daughter of three queens canon

As in, nothing contradicts it and it matches with what's in game

(and then skong went ahead and confirmed it yay)

[odd holly]

the fact thats outright canon in silksong

[zinc pivot]

Feels like they could’ve kept pure vessels dialogue

[brisk finch]

But I'd never hinge an argument on it

[brisk finch]

AND THEY WEREN'T EVEN SURE IT STILL WASIN THAT INTERVIEW
WE WIN

[lean temple]

I assume that's because their Void properties are suppressed by their shell. The WL says they must not be aware of its nature to be holding it

[brisk finch]

It was always the best explanation for Hornet's name, at least

[zinc pivot]

I wonder how powerful TK would be if it was able to wield soul and void in equal terms

[brisk finch]

Probably at least a bit, but if the flower was that powerful (it's not) even that may not be enough

[odd holly]

im going to sleep

[lean temple]

Gn

[brisk finch]

(the flower is powerful but its powers are limited)

[odd holly]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1389416046087372891/1419783358627578058/Blush_Pet.gif

[brisk finch]

Good night!

[humble charm]

The Knight is incredibly powerful - Essentially a Pale Being and the embodiment of the Void

[zinc pivot]

Gn karmelita dont get your heart stolen by a spider in your sleep

[odd holly]

orange juice...

[brisk finch]

Ghost unintentionally became one of the strongest beings ever and I love that lil critter

[lean temple]

Being able to wield the two dominant forces in the world at once is crazy

[charred pollen]

Tk as shade lord is already stupid powerful. Even when void had no focus it still was enough of a threat for the radiance to consider it it's rival, as a force of nature it could still threaten higher beings. As a controlled weapon I doubt there is much that can stop it

[brisk finch]

I don't do power scaling but it makes me laugh so

[humble charm]

In truth given it seems to now be zipping around the Void itself to handle things happening there, it may be able to become something else entirely new

[humble charm]

I mean, the Pale King probably could have delved deep enough into the Abyss to rescue Lace, but they were probably as powerful as the Void itself

[lean temple]

I like the thought of TK basically going around ensuring the Void doesn't do too much destruction

[brisk finch]

Honestly, I'm not sure PK could've
Or well, abyss yes
Final dive, no

[humble charm]

Even its dead cocoon is causing weirdness

Sammy, the Pale King's cocoon is growing those weird Pale Lady like flowerbuds

[brisk finch]

Which aren't the same as the everbloom

[humble charm]

I am aware of that, but that is also their cast-off shell, not the King itself.

[brisk finch]

Right, but I don't think anything less than the everbloom's properties would help there

[humble charm]

The Everbloom is just a flower made of Soul

The Pale King basically existed entirely as Soul, it was all but leaking out of him

[vivid kernel]

baby hornet

[zinc pivot]

But PK still succumbed to the void

[humble charm]

Baby Hornet was SO CUTE

[vivid kernel]

I need this gif but for baby hornet

[brisk finch]

quote?

[humble charm]

After the Pure Vessel failed in its duty and the Radiance started to annihilate his kingdom

[brisk finch]

I'm looking at the wiki page but I'm not seeing

[humble charm]

No quote needed, it's an inference

[charred pollen]

I disagree, void is a force of nature, it is more powerful than higher beings in the same way a hurricane is more powerful than even our best machinery. It's not supposed to be controlled, it's meant to be feared and avoided not fought. How would you even go about defeating the void? It would be like trying to kill a hurricane by shooting it. You simply can't bc it's not something you're meant to fight

[humble charm]

Soul appears to be the sole protection against the Void proper

[brisk finch]

Not how anything works

[zinc pivot]

We need the meme where theres a picture of innocent young girl and the harsh reality old woman

But hornet

[vivid kernel]

When it showed the "flashbacks" after collecting the 3 hearts and the first scene with the weavers - did hornet like...take in their silk? what was that scene about specifically. I didnt rly understand (it was like 3am when I played lol)

[brisk finch]

Nah, they just poofed out like Herrah later

[lean temple]

White Lady: "Witness, the first light. The only means we possess to resist that void with which our family is forever linked"

[humble charm]

The Weavers demanded she use her Silk to make her dress so that she could prove she was not more Wyrm than Weaver

[zinc pivot]

They either died out of left the nest

[lean temple]

The only means

[brisk finch]

Quote at least what you're basing that interference on, in that case

[zinc pivot]

Now question is, did WL know about the flower before or after zemer introduced it

[vivid kernel]

ah ok so them disappearing was just for ambience and wasn't hornet like sacrificing them to do so or something?

[brisk finch]

we possess

[zinc pivot]

And is zemer involved with pale being

Its a can of wyrms to open

[brisk finch]

That's what it appears, yes

[lean temple]

Which implies the PK probably couldn't do a face first dive into the Void, or at least would prefer not to

[brisk finch]

Right, we agree 😄

[vivid kernel]

ty!

[humble charm]

The Pale Lady (and the Pale King) both seem to possess extraordinary amounts of Soul, correct? The Pale King apparently regularly interacted with it in Hallownest, after all. The Pale King was said (though I cannot for the life of me remember where it's said, it's 0630 and I haven't slept) to be almost painfully bright to the eyes. The Pale Lady is also extremely bright, to the point of being potentially painful to the eyes. These two facts are almost certainly linked, given that Soul in the process of being used (even Silk!) is very bright.

It is my opinion that the Everbloom is a flower of pure Soul, the way Hornet's Silk is a thread of pure Soul.

[lean temple]

Paleness and soul seem connected

[zinc pivot]

And it remains an opinion unless it has a real implication outright

[humble charm]

It may even be that the fragility of the Everbloom is due to the purity and intensity of its Soul and that is why it is capable of dispelling the Void.

But that is supposition

[lean temple]

We don't really now. It's unclear where the flowers actually originate them. Is there a god behind them or are they just natural

[humble charm]

But Hornet says that Silk can resist the power of the Void. Silk is Soul, so we know that Soul can resist the Void.

[lean temple]

Temporarily. Void will consume it

[humble charm]

Hence 'resist'

I don't believe it was stated, but I remember it being implied that the Pale King was even more powerful as a Wyrm than as a bug, yes?

[charred pollen]

What are the vessel's shells made of exactly? Unlike soul it doesn't just temporarily resist the corrosion of the void, if the shell isn't broken then the void seemingly will never consume the vessel's soul?

What kind of witchcraft did pk do

[zinc pivot]

A genetic fusion of wyrm and root

[humble charm]

I believe that is where the Pale Lady comes in, as the Vessels came from her.

[zinc pivot]

Which i suppose is immensely durable to hold the void in

[humble charm]

The Pale Lady has a rare power similar to Silk - They can make their Soul into a form, a shape, a tangible thing.

[lean temple]

We also know they're very tough if Hornet is a standard, and she's super tough

[lean temple]

It is

[zinc pivot]

cues double damage

[charred pollen]

I guess the white lady is a higher being, she might have something up her sleeve

[zinc pivot]

Sorry go on

[humble charm]

Because, I may remind everyone, the Pale Lady has completely bound herself, and therefore has no hands to give us the flowers with

Meaning she whistled them up out of... what, exactly?

[mint furnace]

Roots

[humble charm]

Soul.

[lean temple]

She didn't really have "hands" to begin with

[zinc pivot]

She willed the white fragment into existence

[mint furnace]

Idk she’s a pale being

[mint furnace]

Soul hands

[humble charm]

Which only lends credence to it being Soul, honestly

[lean temple]

Not sure. Godseeker says he would've been more magnificent and majestic to worship but idk about the power part

[strong arch]

i just finished act 2 and i got the ending where ||hornet binds the final boss then everything is covered in silk|| iirc there are ||multiple endings|| could i have more information on ||what those endings are ||and more info about the specific ending i got cuz all the lore flew over my head

[mint furnace]

I believe that’s how they work, but I can’t remember the line

[humble charm]

Isn't it explicitly stated he became mortal just to improve bugkind?

[lean temple]

Do as many quests as possible and you should unlock the way to other endings.

[mint furnace]

Go help the cities, that’ll progress you

[zinc pivot]

one end involves you meeting grey root again
One end involves you doing enough quests and do something good for fleas and bell hart
A secret ending involves a mushroom

[lean temple]

He took on the appearance of a bug "meagre shell", but I don't remember him becoming mortal. I mean Hornet doesn't consider herself a mortal

[mint furnace]

Oh yeah get all the fleas too, you need that for TE

[brisk finch]

White Lady doesn't appear tied up in RM

[humble charm]

Well yes, in SS she's explicitly her pre-bound form

[mint furnace]

Btw in that memory she’s still really large

[zinc pivot]

She is huh

[charred pollen]

It depends on how you define power, the power pk wanted was the ability to make an eternal kingdom which is why he needed to inhabit a vessel his subjects could more easily comprehend and worship, something more similar to them

[mint furnace]

So how did that work in the palace

[brisk finch]

So free to hand over the flower

[humble charm]

I think that she bound herself around the time the Pure Vessel failed

[zinc pivot]

While her chair in WP is small

[strong arch]

to discover other endings should i use a new save or nah

[humble charm]

... To Ghost?

[mint furnace]

Nope

[lean temple]

Nah you're good

[mint furnace]

Well, there’s a missable secret ending but it’s easy to get in a speedrun or steel soul save later

[brisk finch]

Hornet lol
Discord was slow to load

[strong arch]

same save? just backtrack and finish missed content?

[zinc pivot]

Unless you did the ending involving all the quests done, you can do all in one save

[brisk finch]

I wonder if this is still canon in any way lol

Not the statues/HK
but Lady

[maiden meteor]

Lady’s chair in Palace is pretty small

[strong arch]

oh so silksong is similar to xenoblade in that beating the final boss just reverts you back to before beating them

[humble charm]

I'm speaking of the connection I made of the Pale Lady's flowers being made of Soul being something I thought about due to HK not SS

[lean temple]

Her silhouette is on a chair, so probably

[maiden meteor]

Maybe she grew because of pent up energy because she bound herself

[brisk finch]

Head seems different to me

[lean temple]

HK was the same

[brisk finch]

That's what I assumed based on HK itself

[mint furnace]

Maybe that conversation was right before hallownest started to go to shit?

[humble charm]

Most likely

[mint furnace]

So she’s in the process of being treed

[lean temple]

Hornet appeared fully grown

[zinc pivot]

Maybe white lady pulled a PK and shrink herself too

[humble charm]

I think that the Pale Lady's binding, the Pale King's descent into madness and later succumbing to the Void all happened after the failure of the Pure Vessel

[maiden meteor]

honestly growing big seems to be a pattern in queens

[brisk finch]

She seems to have always been roots, she may not be a bug at all, but tying herself down to prevent spawning more babies after she spawned so many to make the vessels
may have made her grow in turn

[lean temple]

I mean yeah that's reasonable

[brisk finch]

All of those nutrients stayed inside of her

[mint furnace]

As she is during the game

[zinc pivot]

Female insects and arachnids tend to be big

[mint furnace]

Seems like as an immortal she just stays matured and doesn’t go past that

[lean temple]

I mean yeah Root is literally what she is

[zinc pivot]

Especially hive queens

[brisk finch]

people keep saying tree :((

[maiden meteor]

Vespa grew like x50 since meeting Hornet

[lean temple]

And Karmelita also grew

[strong arch]

(I only played ss first because it's hella hype might play hk later but not anytime soon)

[mint furnace]

there’s a small age of happiness before radiance breaks out iirc

[brisk finch]

May I present my "the vespa corpse is actually a mecha'" theory

[maiden meteor]

Get in the eva Hornet

[humble charm]

Anyway, my good lord what a GAME

[brisk finch]

Silksong genuiinely lived up to the hype for me, somehow

[maiden meteor]

Or Knight will have to do it again

[lean temple]

It is stated that that's just Vespa grown to the point of being unable to get out of the hive so no luck

[brisk finch]

That;s what they want you to think

The manual lied to us

[maiden meteor]

What would hive need gundam for

[brisk finch]

To fight the radiance

[charred pollen]

Funnily enough I still haven't played silk song

[mint furnace]

D:

[brisk finch]

Even spoiled it's still worth going into

[charred pollen]

I watched some lore videos but that's about it

[charred pollen]

I know, I intend to buy it later

[brisk finch]

I hope you'll enjoy it

[humble charm]

I didn't remember Hornet learning from the Hive though

But seeing them was cool

[mint furnace]

It’s technically a retcon, but also it just wasn’t ever mentioned in hk

[lean temple]

It was a concept TC had in mind from long ago

[humble charm]

Honestly it does make sense

[mint furnace]

It doesn’t actually mess with any HK lore and it adds to hornets character so I find it cool

[humble charm]

That said, I am kinda disappointed that Lace only has two moves from fencing but is called a fencer

[brisk finch]

When TC mentioned it in an interview they stated that's how Hornet got her name (during dev), but they didn't know if it was still canon

Which made it very easily acceptable head canon

[mint furnace]

Nah, you forgot about the classic fencing move of spouting void tendrils from your chest

[brisk finch]

I cheered when Red Memory came up

[lean temple]

Seeing the Hivesteel needle was amazing

[mint furnace]

Rookie mistake my friend

[brisk finch]

The teaaaaase

[humble charm]

Hornet honestly fights less like she has a sword and more like she has a spear

Or more accurately an assegai

[fringe leaf]

when i saw those flying palace bug...i panicked

[mint furnace]

Hornet said “distant tribe” and I had a neuron activation

[lean temple]

I mean that basically confirmed it for me. Red Memory and Vespa was the (team) cherry on top

[fringe leaf]

the trauma of a certain path came back

[brisk finch]

Nostalgia

[mint furnace]

I thought we wouldn’t get more than that but red memory was peak

[neat sandal]

isn't the daughter of 3 queen thing
born by Herrah
raised by white lady
and trained by hive queen

[brisk finch]

Hivesteel confirmed the Hornet name, Red MEmory confirmed daughter of three queens

For me

[mint furnace]

Should’ve played path of pain theme for 10 seconds for the fakeout

[humble charm]

Also uhhh

Does the Red Memory mean Hornet technically killed herself

[mint furnace]

Was a theory forever without really evidence, got confirmed in SS though

[lean temple]

Ig. Hivesteel just made me immediately jump to 3 queens lol

[humble charm]

Her shell and mask broke

[brisk finch]

Not a theory, like I said. TC's own concept during development

[brisk finch]

I was hesitant XD

[mint furnace]

dream realm is always weird

[humble charm]

I just hope the next TC game is Sherma main protag

He'll be cool

[mint furnace]

Indeed, just was a common theory in hk

[honest anvil]

yeah no it wasn't a theory it was a concept which never got fully realised in development and as such was "word of god" from the devs rather than strict canon

[mint furnace]

Sherma wakes up

[brisk finch]

Fandom accepted cut content aren't really theories

[mint furnace]

I want quirrel first

[humble charm]

Didn't Quirrel die

[maiden meteor]

Game shows Pearly Gates and then end instantly

[brisk finch]

He did, but he has a one chapter comic showing his travels

[mint furnace]

They can fit in a story for him while he’s gone from hallownest

Or, better, zoteboat real

[neat sandal]

or sherma mode (like in castlevania)
sherma journey from bone marrow to songclave

[brisk finch]

I'd love to see how he did blasted steps

[humble charm]

Sherma mode as a GAME LONG PATH OF PAIN ANALOGUE

[brisk finch]

One of the judges just helped him along lol

[brisk finch]

Oh I would actually love that nvm sign me up

[maiden meteor]

I wonder how the hell bugs traverse wastelands

there’s almost no food

[brisk finch]

Crawling over the corpses of others, both literally and figuratively

+Stocking up on food beforehand

[mild hound]

Probably just stocking up on food yeah

[maiden meteor]

we do see weird bird things in Silksong intro

[humble charm]

How many times did Ghost or Hornet get food in game

[mint furnace]

They’re… part god

[maiden meteor]

also I guess Nameless Town implies surface is livable

[brisk finch]

Hornet can get plenty of flea soup

[lean temple]

They specifically require little to no sustenance, as said by Hornet

[brisk finch]

But yes, she explicitely doesn't need to eat (much)

[heavy gyro]

Is the mount fay bird a bug

[maiden meteor]

No mouth to snack…

[brisk finch]

[mint furnace]

I think Hornet probably just eats silk