sk-lore

[cloud plover]

i would assume not

[vocal crypt]

so is the abyss and void sea just the deepest part of hk's world, anywhere you go down? it seems that way from hornet's notes on the shadow creepers and how she thinks that anywhere you go down, they will be there. in addition, given the existence of the arcane egg and ancient lore tablet in the abyss, was the ancient civilization unified across all of the game's world?

[lean temple]

Yeah seems like it

[whole juniper]

I think she tried to hold onto all of pharloom to stop herself and lace from falling deeper into the void so lace was saveable. The threads obviously would get coated in void during the process, making the whole kingdom covered in void thread

[vital frost]

Alright nice, I got a few questions regarding the lore:

• What's the deal with Grand Mother Silk? Why is she causing the haunting? Is she sealed or something?
• Why does Silk want Hornet/a weaverspawn from another kingdom?

[cloud plover]

yea

[whole juniper]

She’s wants hornet cause she makes silk. The silk weavers make is needed to keep her daughter lace alive and she needs a shit load of it

[lean temple]

The Weavers tried usurping the rule from her so she got angry

She needs silk to sustain Lace

[whole juniper]

I guess she never tried to stop the haunting so that’s also why enemies turn void

The void haunting

[vital frost]

So Silk can't make silk herself?

[whole juniper]

She can

[cloud plover]

haunting greatly extends the lives of bugs, so she haunts the working bugs of pharloom so they are forever in her service

[lean temple]

She can but presumably it's not enough

[whole juniper]

She assumingly needs a lot to sustain herself and the haunting

[vagrant ember]

if we assume all endings are canon here, does that mean that GMS dies or no?

[agile coral]

who is the bug we see when we needolin in the surface for the surface memento?

[vocal crypt]

really hope we learn more about the ancient civ in later content

[lean temple]

It's not really the Haunting. They were already stuffing themselves with silk to become immortal. She was able to haunt the silk in their bodies

[cloud plover]

how can you assume all ending are canon

[whole juniper]

In all endings gms dies I believe maybe not in the cursed one

[agile coral]

i think she simply cannot make enough?

[cloud plover]

wouldn’t each of them be a different canon

[cloud plover]

oh i see

[agile coral]

yes, but all are canon nonetheless

[whole juniper]

they just think the tc post applies somehow

[vital frost]

But she makes so much of it. How would Hornet alone make enough for Lace if Silk can't?

[agile coral]

i mean, we dont get to see past the ending. maybe lace doesnt last that long.

[silent phoenix]

Speaking of the void, how the fuck did weavers get down there? and why?

were they that desperate to escape from Silk?

[cloud plover]

yea i think the tc post was more of a message to the user about interpreting story endings rather then establishing a hollow knight multiverse

[lean temple]

They were researching it, maybe to use against GMS?

[compact rampart]

Most likely experiments like what the pale king did or something

[whole juniper]

They’re all different canon events determined by what hornet does, all the hk endings are canon in SILKSONG unless they prevent hornet from getting to pharloom or the knight, so the canon would only be in hk I guess and SILKSONG wouldn’t happen

[vocal crypt]

probably research and curiosity, like the pale king, but less intrusive than his methods

[vital frost]

Since Silk's reach is far, probably. They only got far enough away by getting that close to the void. Or perhaps they were experimenting with the void to use it against Silk?

[agile coral]

cant answer how, but as for the why likely as a weapon against GMS. i mean, their technology is literally required to enact act 3 and send her to the void

[silent phoenix]

[cloud plover]

this makes sense, but also directly contradicts the definition of canon

[whole juniper]

That’s not weaver tech it’s shamen tech

[cloud plover]

like what does hornet actually do? for example all hk endings were canon until silksong came out and now that rules out half of them

[agile coral]

just because certain HK endings cant coexist with silksong doesnt make them not canon. silksong just doesnt happen the same way in those endings

[lean temple]

They needed the snare setter which is Weaver tech

[agile coral]

the snare setter

[whole juniper]

Some of the endings continue into the SILKSONG timeline some don’t

[whole juniper]

that’s weaver tech?

[agile coral]

yes you get it from a weavenest

[cloud plover]

but canon is a singular storyline, it’s what actually happens to keep the story going, so yes you can have multiple realistic endings but the plot of the next game will not follow all of them

[agile coral]

and it has like the same style as other weaver stuff

[whole juniper]

you get it from the shamen

[lean temple]

No?

[whole juniper]

Ohh yeah

[lean temple]

It's in Weavenest Atla iirc

[agile coral]

canon isnt a singular storyline though because there are multiple endings which are all canon

[lean temple]

Literally read the description

[whole juniper]

You get the three shamans souls and then he makes the snare setter

[agile coral]

no he doesnt?? you have to get it for him

[whole juniper]

Ohhhh

[cloud plover]

im saying that i disagree, they’re not all canon, i think you’re confusing canon with possibility

[whole juniper]

I mixed up the snare setter with the actual full trap mb

[agile coral]

didnt tc say on record that all of the endings were canon? there is no 1 true ending (although people will always view lost lace / radiance as true endings because they are like the ultimate ending achievement)

[whole juniper]

So it’s not connected to void at all it’s just a device to be used as a activator for traps

[lean temple]

That was ages ago

[cloud plover]

.

[novel eagle]

btw did you guys discover the ending where hornet fuses with grand mother instead of the weaver queen ending

[cloud plover]

@agile coral ^^

[agile coral]

yeah which i guess still calls into question whether or not the weavers were in the void to resist GMS

[novel eagle]

super cool and similar to arcane

[agile coral]

i still think "interpreting story endings" applies here. just because there is like an ultimate ending and only a few of them lead into silksong doesnt make the other endings any less real

[whole juniper]

Why would being in the abyss protect from gms?

[novel eagle]

That skin looks amazing

[cloud plover]

yes exactly

what i’m sayin is real is not the same thing as canon

[compact rampart]

Cause void is the one thing that repels pale beings it seems

[novel eagle]

my interpretation is each ending leads to a different timeline, we're only seeing the proceedings of the dream no more ending

[agile coral]

gms is a higher being, and obviously the shamans came to the idea that void is the way to stop her so i dont see why the weavers wouldnt come to the same conclusion as well

[whole juniper]

The pale king:

[novel eagle]

all endings are canon to their own timeline

[cloud plover]

i agree, and i think that the timeline that the games follow is what the canon is

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong didn't need to follow up on any ending if any ending could theoretically lead to it

[whole juniper]

This

[compact rampart]

Yeah didn't he die from it or something

[agile coral]

what im sayin

[sinful nimbus]

But alas that's not what we got so

[compact rampart]

Cause he has like void tears

[cloud plover]

that is not what canon means tho 😭

[novel eagle]

did you discover the ending where gms fuses with hornet
Controlling the minds of every bug in pharloom and wastelands

[agile coral]

i have gotten them all except for the mushroom one

[whole juniper]

We don’t know how he died. But he built with it constantly. The black egg is made of it. His molds are. He clearly knows how to utilize the void

[lean temple]

I saw the cutscene but idk what triggers it

[novel eagle]

cool what were your thoughts no that one

[cloud plover]

not all timelines are canon

[novel eagle]

beat gms and dont bind her
after 5 seconds she'll fuse with you

[sinful nimbus]

They were all stated to be their own canon

[compact rampart]

Yeah but that doesn't mean it didn't affect him

[agile coral]

i mean yeah, guns kill me easily but that doesnt mean i cant be safe with a gun and use a gun effectively without harming myself

[whole juniper]

Why would he keep making molds if it was affecting him

[compact rampart]

Anyways the point being void is like the one way to beat higher beings

[novel eagle]

lifeblood:

[lean temple]

Pale/light ones especially

[novel eagle]

the tree leech:

[whole juniper]

needles, lifeblood,

[compact rampart]

I meant one of the ways but yeah

[novel eagle]

sherma:

sherma solos all pale beings

[compact rampart]

Also lifeblood does?

[whole juniper]

it is probably the product of a higher being

[novel eagle]

yeah so lifeblood also has its own higher being

[whole juniper]

like a 80% chance id say

[novel eagle]

you could barely make out its silhouette in godhome

[whole juniper]

The thing we see in godhome is probably a higher being

[compact rampart]

Yeah I get that so I suppose the substance is also good against killing other higher beings

[whole juniper]

What’s really confusing is why is it not in a pantheon? It seems to have somehow snuck in

[novel eagle]

yeah so im pretty sure lifeblood if injected in high doses to palebeings = they lose their minds

[whole juniper]

that applies to anyone

[novel eagle]

im saying that is another way to beat them
MAke em lose their minds ez

[whole juniper]

but maybe not that alchemist guy he didn’t fully lose his mind

[quartz flicker]

what if there was a Snail Shaman of one of these things https://fxtwitter.com/hormeze/status/1969516235584127014

Hormeze 𐤄𐤅𐤓𐤌𐤉𐤆 (@hormeze)

losing my mind reading about the 'volcano snail' that both eats and is partially made of IRON

**💬 729 🔁 4.9K ❤️ 84.6K 👁️ 1.78M **

FxTwitter · Sep 20, 2025, 9:37 PM

[whole juniper]

you’d probably need a lot. The pale king could comfortably work with void, so he’s so much more resilient than a common bug

[quartz flicker]

can someone draw a Volcano Snail Shaman.

[karmic tartan]

Okay people were talking about the hunter crest but in the files it's only called hunter_old

[novel eagle]

someone like hornet for lifeblood
she can weave silk so easily so why not some bug that can produce and wield lifeblood without endangering themselves

[whole juniper]

Better than hornet

She’s only half pale

[novel eagle]

we dont know lifeblood beings are pale

[whole juniper]

Any of the hosts

[whole juniper]

Lifeblood beings are clearly not pale. It can affect pale beings

[grizzled crater]

i have question about the void in silksong. when the everbloom runs out, the void goes to attack hornet, and the knight/ shadelord has to physically stop it, but doesnt this go against what void heart says about unifying the void's will under the bearers?

[sinful chasm]

What exactly is the intention of GMS? Why were the Weavers persecuted? I havent really tapped into the lore much aside from playing the game

[whole juniper]

It’s confusing and has no definite answer

[agile coral]

we dont know exactly what the effective "range" of the void heart is. my assumption is that when the everbloom ends, the knight appears and since it has the void heart it saves hornet from the void. although i will say this is all pure speculation as i dont think we have a true concrete answer

[novel eagle]

he just took control of the void attacking her
he repelled that void
He told them to back off

tkae any pick

[whole juniper]

you clearly didn’t watch the ending

[vagrant ember]

that's what i was thinking of too. to be a devil's advocate and all that

[whole juniper]

you see it slash away the tendrils

[vagrant ember]

devil's advocate. Silksong reference woah

[mental roost]

are these crest images

[novel eagle]

yeah well iguess thats one of his powers now

[karmic tartan]

Yeah from the files

[compact rampart]

I took it as the knight isn't shade lord they just have the potential and because of that the void isn't unified

[karmic tartan]

You can see a cut crest in the bottom right of the second inage

[agile coral]

if we ever get a godhome equivalent in this game, do you guys think the harder version of lost lace will be lost lace but under the influence of a unified void from the p5 ending instead of a regular void?

[compact rampart]

Cause it's only a glimpse of the shade lord that we see

[novel eagle]

aint that just hunters

[grizzled crater]

well i came in here a while ago asking if the void had its own will seperate from tk and i wa told it doesnt, but this ending suggests otherwise

[karmic tartan]

It'd be cool for every boss to have a lost variant

[whole juniper]

I think it unified to slash the tendrils. It could be that there was already a will to kill hornet since the void just always wants to destroy, so it unified the other void around it to kill the other unified void maybe

[compact rampart]

Lost savage beastfly I think would make me quit

[whole juniper]

lost lost lace

[grizzled crater]

dude same

[novel eagle]

oh u meant fom second image yea i see

[agile coral]

in radiance's case, we get to fight the radiance in its prime when it was at its highest point of worship (assumedly), so it would make sense for us to get to fight lost lace but in the timeline where the void becomes truly unified under the shadelord

[karmic tartan]

No no you just get 3 savage beastflies

[glacial citrus]

Is one of the taxidermy in the the memorium the hermit crab guy

[novel eagle]

i feel like that crset might be from beating GMS

[whole juniper]

No we don’t

It is NOT at a high point of worship

[neat sandal]

normal Lace but fight with phantom

[compact rampart]

Absrad is the strongest version though at like the point of her strength

[agile coral]

is that not the point? like with pure vessel we fight the hollow knight pre - infection in its prime, and with the radiance we fight her in her prime which is when she was worshipped the most

[compact rampart]

Which is then okay to assume it's when it was worshipped the most

[agile coral]

thats the reason theyre both so much stronger in godhome

[lean temple]

AbsRad's halo is also much bigger

[foggy fractal]

guh

[novel eagle]

oh wow yeah that looks much better

[tiny sail]

I just got to the || Grand Mother Silk || Act 2 final boss, and I feel like I explored 90% of the game, yet I only have ||22|| hours into the game when I see people with 50+. Am I missing something?

[whole juniper]

Nobody was worshipping her

Well the mossy bugs sometimes did

[vital frost]

Maybe you just play fast

[novel eagle]

Either that scrapped crest is from beating GMS or something related to faydown cloak maybe

[agile coral]

yeah no shit nobodies worshipping her at the time of the game but in godhome we are fighting both the hollow knight in its prime and radiance in her prime. radiance's prime would be when she is worshipped the most

[whole juniper]

You’re probably like at 40 or 50% completions

[agile coral]

godhome is a dream obviously radiance isnt actually being worshipped that much

[whole juniper]

Oh yeah

[karmic tartan]

Thanks 😭

[novel eagle]

A lot of people believe theres a "Scrapped" ending in the game files but that ending is labelled as the "Abandoned" ending and it is very much unlockable in game.
Its just that alot of people missed it.

[tiny sail]

Really? When I see alot of the map and I’m at the act 2 final boss fight?

[agile coral]

you beat her? try doing more quests and find another way to deal with her

[tiny sail]

Havent beat her

[whole juniper]

What ending is it

[novel eagle]

oi u wanna see a different ending
oh wait

[karmic tartan]

What about me 45 hours 1/3 Melodies I just need to beat the high halls arena and trobbio shortcuts alr unlocked

[agile coral]

then beat her and then re-explore and finish as many quests as you can until you find a way to deal with her that isnt killing her

[novel eagle]

The one where GMS fuses with hornet
And mind controls all beings in pharloom

[whole juniper]

Like 40

[karmic tartan]

THE CURSE THE CURSE THE CURSE

[whole juniper]

Isn’t that the cursed child

[novel eagle]

What no
Thats the one where everyone dies via petrification

[tiny sail]

Wait can I get different endings in the same gamefile? Like if I kill her the game ends but brings me back before the fight so I could figure out another ending

Or something similar to that

[karmic tartan]

I've done almost everything I feel like I can do in act 1 and 2

[whole juniper]

Do you have a video of the ending

[mental roost]

and how does one unlock it

[foggy fractal]

is it though ? theres no achievement for it

[lean temple]

No. GMS like grabs Hornet

[karmic tartan]

I need to do wormways and sands still tho

[novel eagle]

yes all you need to do is beat the GMS and dont press bind key

[agile coral]

yes you can get all endings in 1 save, although there is 1 that is very easy to get locked out of. if you dont want to miss it i could tell you

[foggy fractal]

I am too lazy to test it

[novel eagle]

you just beat gms and dont bind her she'll fuse with you

[whole juniper]

Can you send video

[whole canopy]

guys I have a lil theory but its more about the map itself and its history

||I stared at the map long enough to either figure something out or be delusional, either way I think mount fay may not have always been frozen, it might have once been a water source that trickled down through the sands of karak and blasted steps and (since as far as I know) the coral tower was past its prime by the time the weavers came around (correct me if I'm wrong) any water that was left by now has gona down further to the bottom where moss grotto is, that being said I also think that either the worm ways were filled with water or just didnt exist since the worms would've only started digging after the place dried and filled with sand instead||

spoilered it just in case but I'd love to think more about this

[novel eagle]

||https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VOUbW_gE-Q&vl=en||

[whole juniper]

I got locked out of that ending

[tiny sail]

Yeah tell me how to get that one but please not what actually happens, if that’s possible

[karmic tartan]

What?

[agile coral]

do you have the witch crest?

[brittle galleon]

same 🙁

[novel eagle]

What
wdym what

[tiny sail]

No I was looking for that now but i dont wanna look it up lol

[novel eagle]

u can load back your save to act 2 gms
the game auto-saves certain points in the game for you to go back to

[agile coral]

during the quest to obtain the crest, you will become cursed and severely debuffed. defeat GMS with the curse to get an ending

[brittle galleon]

whjats the lore behind the cursed ending

[tiny sail]

oo thats cool, imma do that! ty!

also is there a way to see my game completion in game?

[whole juniper]

That’s a cool ending

[novel eagle]

Basically that tree woman is a parasite who rebirths by taking over the body's of "hosts"
she leechs their power until they perish and is reborn

[mental roost]

when i couldn't figure out how to get to act 3, I went to grand mother silk and didn't bind, and nothing happened

[agile coral]

youll know youre cursed because you cant heal and your silk bar is covered in tentacles

[agile coral]

not in act 2, no

[karmic tartan]

Is this real?

[tiny sail]

cant heal? i’m so cooked

[novel eagle]

its in the gamefiles

[brittle galleon]

by tree women do u mean greyroot

[agile coral]

its not as bad as youd think

[novel eagle]

Really aww shucks

[karmic tartan]

IT WAS NEVER SAID THAT SHES REBIRTHING HERSELF

[novel eagle]

yeah her and what we saw is he rinfecting the entire kingdom

[novel eagle]

what did you not understand by "Rite of rebirth"
Rite = ritual

[karmic tartan]

Yeah there's a bunch of cut content in there

[novel eagle]

seems like that ending was spuposed to happen if u didnt bind her

[karmic tartan]

Yeah it never said it was her rebirth

[brittle galleon]

what if hornet was rebirthing or the crest itself due to how it changed

[novel eagle]

she literally kept saying the time of rebirth is near the time of rebirth is here

[whole juniper]

Rite of rebirth

[karmic tartan]

Yeah and it was never said HER rebirth

[novel eagle]

have you heard of the cordecyps fungus?
It kills it hosts and reproducse its spores

[neat sandal]

so you just spread misinformation without testing it

[whole juniper]

ok who’s is it

[karmic tartan]

It just said rebirth

[novel eagle]

i thought it was real i ahave been misinformed too x_X

[karmic tartan]

I don't know I'm just dispelling misinformation

[brittle galleon]

wait wait what if what if the crest is rebirthing

[novel eagle]

sHE LITERALLY took over your body

[novel eagle]

DUDE SHE KEPT SAYING "THE TIME OF rebirth COMES NEAR"

[karmic tartan]

She restrains you, yes, we never see HER taking over our body

[novel eagle]

what.

[brittle galleon]

isnt the twisted bud put in ur body not greyroot

[karmic tartan]

YEAH AND IT WAS NEVER STATED TO BE HER REBIRTH WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND

[compact rampart]

She literally infects you with a curse hello?

[novel eagle]

she literally is called a "PARASITE"

do you know what a PARASITE is?

[whole juniper]

It clearly is

[brittle galleon]

isnt the twisted bud the parasite

[agile coral]

i just realized the tyrant king killing the little pilgrim is literally in the silksong reveal trailer from 6 years ago 😭

[novel eagle]

i have 0 idea how her rite works but she clearly is the one rebirthing herself

[karmic tartan]

Assumptions

[novel eagle]

ah yes the one who disappeared after abracadabra is not the one infecting us

she just

[tropic arrow]

The very definition of the word "rebirth" means it's her

[novel eagle]

poof

[tropic arrow]

like come on now

[novel eagle]

the cursed ending does imply at the point which she rebirths she might just become a higher being herself

[karmic tartan]

Blatant lies?

[novel eagle]

ok man forget it

u believe what you want to believe we can't hold that against u

[shy island]

What do we know about this guy? is he related to the colosseum guy from the othher game?

[karmic tartan]

the process of being reincarnated or born again.

What about that implies it's her

[foggy fractal]

you'll know more in ||Act 3||

but nah they just look kinda alike

[karmic tartan]

No y'all can't tell me to forget about an argument y'all were just as guilty of starting

[shy island]

I see

[novel eagle]

because she clearly knows what the rite of rebirth is

[shy horizon]

we know he's crusty

[karmic tartan]

Your sentence makes no sense

[novel eagle]

how can you know about it
Theres no literature in the game about this ritual
only she has the information about it.

[karmic tartan]

Vro

[novel eagle]

yea?

[karmic tartan]

What like genuinely I'm so confused

All I'm saying is there's no proof it's greyroot being rebron

[novel eagle]

im saying shes the only one informed about the "Rite of rebirth"

[whole juniper]

No. He was a tyrant from before the events of silksong. He was EXTREMELY powerful

[novel eagle]

theres no writings about this ritual anywhere else

how can she know about this ritual and not be the one rebirthig herself

[karmic tartan]

Yeah probably because she lives alone in shellwood

[novel eagle]

who else would be rebirthing here if not her

[novel eagle]

what does that have to do with this

[karmic tartan]

Your argument is illogical

[novel eagle]

shellwood doesnt have any information about this rite
Where do you see it

??

[karmic tartan]

The reason nobody else talks about it is because there is nobody else involved with it THAT WE TALK TO.

[karmic tartan]

She lives in an isolated area

[whole juniper]

that is illogical

you can’t just assume there’s some randos who know

[novel eagle]

AND HOW WOULD anyone else living in that area BE INFORMED about this ritual

[whole canopy]

I've never seen that winged crest before, is that part of something??

[whole juniper]

that is what i call bullshit

[novel eagle]

THIS IS A SPECIAL rite

ITS NOT A TRADITION EVERYONE DOES

if it was a village tradition or some widespread knowledge then we'd know about it by other bugs or literature / writings

[foggy fractal]

its cut content

[blissful harbor]

cut

[whole canopy]

aww

[blissful harbor]

imo, we would’ve seen it during the red memory segment

[whole juniper]

They should keep cut content in the game I don’t see why they removed that ending

[novel eagle]

it looks like monarch wings soo maybe its the crest u coudlve gotten after binding gms

[blissful harbor]

why would silk give you a hallownest crest

[whole canopy]

it reminds me more of the hallownest crest so maybe its related to the memory sequence

[novel eagle]

what if nameless town had that crest then
That one area up top

[karmic tartan]

The misinformation is strong with these ones

[blissful harbor]

why would the nameless town have a hallownest crest?

[novel eagle]

oh well it probably was red memory

[whole juniper]

it wouldn’t make sense to put it anywhere other than from mister mushroom or red memory

And mister mushroom is a giant stretch

[karmic tartan]

Honestly yeah that was pretty baseless but considering all of the greyroot is being reborn arguments are completely baseless as well I don't see how it matters

[novel eagle]

what

[karmic tartan]

Like you don't talk to anybody else about it so you ASSUME there's nobody else who knows about it

[novel eagle]

[karmic tartan]

We don't have enough information to have anything definitive

[novel eagle]

if anyone else knew about it wouldnt we know we have the entire frekaing game wwith us

[whole juniper]

if you talk to everyone in the game and nobody knows then nobody knows

[karmic tartan]

No

[novel eagle]

do you know what parasites are

[whole juniper]

if the devs made it that way then they would let you know through dialogue

[karmic tartan]

Yeah that's assuming the people who know you can talk to and that everyone is entirely honest with everything they know

[novel eagle]

they eat their hosts and then come out of them and then go to new hosts

[karmic tartan]

Yeah that's legit 7th grade stuff

[novel eagle]

then why are you debating this you saw her go into us and crack our shell open

[karmic tartan]

Not every parasite but yes generally

[novel eagle]

u heard the snap didnt you

[ionic minnow]

popping in really quick to ask - i got some dialogue from hornet saying something along the lines of "i have no family, not anymore" a while ago and i cant for the life of me remember where/when she said it. wiki is obviously not updated w/ all her dialogue yet. did anyone else get it and remember where it is & what she said word for word...

[novel eagle]

she went into us infecting us and viola rebirth

[karmic tartan]

That's the thing we didn't see anything

[lean elm]

Yo I have a lore theory

[novel eagle]

ok so in your poinion who else would it be

[karmic tartan]

We heard a crack and it faded to black nothing else

[whole juniper]

The line about her outliving her partners?

[lean elm]

Can I discuss it here because the other channels are too much

[karmic tartan]

Probably some higher being greyroot was worshipping

Also if greyroot was capable of doing the things she does when shes reborn why doesn't she

[novel eagle]

yes

[light saddle]

Yeah, go for it

[ionic minnow]

no there was some other dialogue outside of the journal, i thought it may have been w/ huntress but im not sure

[lean elm]

I think yk how the pale king is a worm that has like a foresight ability what if because hornet and the knight are half worms they foresee the future that the player plays and that’s why when you die you like wake up at the bench

[karmic tartan]

Theories are what this channel is for friend

[lean elm]

Thanks

[whole juniper]

that’s actually a really cool theory

[karmic tartan]

Wait I like that theory

[light saddle]

That’s a pretty cool idea :0

[whole juniper]

Though, it doesn’t explain shades and cocoons

[lean elm]

Yea I like thought about it like how you wake up and I have been kind of invested in the first games lore since silksong

[karmic tartan]

The only thing that doesn't explain is how the shade gets there

[lean elm]

I am thinking about it

[novel eagle]

i mean sure but ike
Thats also just a game mechanic in the game hornet clearly never dies and just proceeds killing everything her path

[lean elm]

Still trying to figure it out a bit

[novel eagle]

its just a game mechnic

[whole juniper]

Well, your shade is your lingering regret right?

[karmic tartan]

Oh yeah sorry if my argument about greyroot got a little tense @novel eagle @whole juniper

[whole juniper]

maybe it’s the regret of your future self?

[lean elm]

Yea ur right

[whole juniper]

hk lore is intense I get it lol

[light saddle]

I don’t think it’s meant to. Respawning isn’t canon, so it doesn’t really pose a problem.

The only real thorn in the idea’s side is the fact that Hornet doesn’t mention it to be one of the few things she inherited from her father.

[karmic tartan]

That's what jiji and the hunter say

[novel eagle]

no worries it is always good to hear other opinions.

[lean elm]

I just need to finish silksong and go deeper in the lore to clear it up

[karmic tartan]

Mossbag almost entire lore of silksong when

[whole juniper]

this could make spawning canon

[novel eagle]

id say nosk's closest equivalent to this game i s probably the unravelled (Design wise not lorewise)

[lean elm]

Yea and like she will realise it like the pale king

But maybe it’s like a dream to them from being only half worms

[whole juniper]

Similar to how rainworld makes respawning a lore

[karmic tartan]

Unravelled might actually be fun if the arena was larger

But no they give us the soul sanctum parody of an analogue horror that is whiteward

[light saddle]

Nahh. Having a premonition of a possible fate to come doesn’t canonize respawning in the slightest.

Plus, if it did, it would create a huge issue of why TK’s shade isn’t going back to the abyss like shades are supposed to do.

[blissful harbor]

lore wise, i believe the weird styx puppet fulfills that role

[cloud plover]

rainworld is another game with banger lore, i still think ab downpour today

[whole juniper]

I like rainworlds lore more than hks even

[karmic tartan]

Yeah I was about to say that being Styx is faceless

[whole juniper]

And that’s saying something crazy

[cloud plover]

hk is my all time fav and rain world is right behind it

[light saddle]

Yeeah it’s a bit messy sometimes

[cloud plover]

it’s messy but the story is so beautiful

[lean elm]

I think of it not as spawning they are not spawning they are just dreaming of their paths when they rest like how the pale king saw the hollow nest being corrupted by the radiance

[cloud plover]

wait i thought u meant rainworld u meant hk

[whole juniper]

I really like the idea that if society is mortal they’d always try to find a way to become immortal but if you flip it then you have everyone trying to kill themselves for no reason

[whole juniper]

no I do mean rainworld

[cloud plover]

ik i meant the guy who called hk lore messy

[whole juniper]

Ohhh

Rainworld lore can get a little messy I think

With the whole void sperm thing

[cloud plover]

yes that’s what i thought he meant

[whole juniper]

ohh

[cloud plover]

for me, rainworld has the best story i’ve ever experienced, but hk worldbuilding is also the best world building i’ve ever experienced

[whole juniper]

There are actually so many parallels from each games

[whole juniper]

Yeah agreed

[light saddle]

Ah, it’s she — and yeah, there are some things that don’t make all that much sense in Hollow Knight. It’s still a very charming story despite that, though :0

[karmic tartan]

I've heard a lot about rain world never seen much tho

[whole juniper]

It’s so amazing and so hard

[cloud plover]

my bad he is like my default pronoun 😂 (in this server)

[whole juniper]

It isn’t silksong hard it’s a different kind of hard

[light saddle]

Nw, I do the same thing honestly

[karmic tartan]

Same way but they instead of he

[lean elm]

Isn’t it different because silksong is like more fast paced in rain world I know you have to think more and be more cowardly

[cloud plover]

yes plus the messy parts of hollow knight are done so well to make you ask questions and want to learn more

[whole juniper]

In silksong it’s fast paced and punishing combat

In rainworld it’s knowing your ecosystem and using your surroundings and other creatures to get past your obstacles

Or just being really good at movement

[cloud plover]

rainworld is kinda its own genre

[lean elm]

Yeah and in rainworld you have to survive live around resources and surroundings like you said

[whole juniper]

You have to find food while avoiding predators

[lean elm]

And also the mobs because it depends on them

[whole juniper]

Yeah idk how you would classify it

[karmic tartan]

Rainworld in my ss channel

[cloud plover]

me neither, it’s like a sub metroidvania maybe but it has so many other elements

[karmic tartan]

Jokes gng don't assassinate me gng

[lean elm]

Well I think of it more like survival platformer kind of game isn’t it

I have watched it never played it

[whole juniper]

You’re just at the bottom of the food chain in a world that you can’t fix or change

[cloud plover]

🔪

sorry twin

[lean elm]

But I got this vibe you have a goal and you strive to survive while exploring

[whole juniper]

Yeah it could be

[karmic tartan]

Twin nooo

[scenic condor]

little ghost

[whole juniper]

There isn’t a clear goal until you’re halfway through the game

More than halfway I guess

[lean elm]

Really sorry I am talking based on memories from videos I have watched

[whole juniper]

That’s alr

[lean elm]

I watched one or two gameplays one was by astralspiff I think

[cloud plover]

i think it’s a game that you benefit from greatly not knowing anything going in

[whole juniper]

Astralspiff is great

[cloud plover]

but it will be extremely challenging

[lean elm]

I loved watching him when I try to fall asleep idk it was calming and also long videos

[whole juniper]

I think it’s necessary to learn some movement techs

[cloud plover]

that’s probably true i meant in terms of the story/objective

[karmic tartan]

Same thing with HK tbh

[lean elm]

Yea but I see it more in silksong like you have areas that kind of force you to learn movements

[whole juniper]

Ehh it becomes more and more clear as you progress through the city of tears whicj is early game

[cloud plover]

it’s not like silksong in that way

[whole juniper]

Or the resting grounds

[cloud plover]

it doesn’t really give you any sub tutorials or hints

[agile coral]

wtf is up with the creature that gives you faydown cloak

[whole juniper]

You don’t need the movements and you aren’t taught them, you just kinda have to learn them yourself and experiment

[karmic tartan]

You only get the assignment at the statue scene

[lean elm]

Yea but I am talking about the movement like in hk I feel like there are things you can learn to do but you aren’t forced entirely

[whole juniper]

When the dreamers talk about you breaking the seal it is pretty clear what your goal is

[karmic tartan]

The Fayforn? No idea but it's probably pretty old

[lean elm]

While in silksong I found myself in areas that like need me to learn this especially because I was learning it anew on keyboard

[whole juniper]

You are forced to do almost everything movement related

[karmic tartan]

It wasn't to me

[cloud plover]

thats my homie

[karmic tartan]

Wait do you mean dream nail scene or hornet 1 scene?

[whole juniper]

Well it made your goal to find out what the fuck they’re talking about right

[karmic tartan]

That's just how life is

[whole juniper]

More so dream nail scene

[karmic tartan]

I feel like my entire life is tryna figure out what the hell people talking about

[cloud plover]

that is an interesting perspective

[karmic tartan]

So 😭

[karmic tartan]

ADHD is an interesting thing

[cloud plover]

it is indeed

[whole juniper]

You’re atleast given a goal after beating Horner 1 to find out who it is who put you to sleepies

[karmic tartan]

I got a really weird flavor of ADHD for some reason

[lean elm]

Actually it kinda is but you also find yourself in them yk they are like your mirror

[karmic tartan]

What is shinji yapping about now /j

[lean elm]

😂😂😂

[open remnant]

yo does anyone know how to get the "alt" ending or what that is

[whole juniper]

In rainworld you just have to explore until you find a guy who says he knows you wanna kill yourself and tells you how

[karmic tartan]

Which one

There's like 4 endings

[ivory forum]

true ending?

[open remnant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCco3Rjc6bM

[karmic tartan]

Yeah do you mean true ending?

[ivory forum]

is this implying best ending is cursed ending

[open remnant]

nah the 2nd one

[karmic tartan]

Because when you do true ending your put in act 3 and at that point your only option is true ending

[whole juniper]

Secret is cursed ending

[lean elm]

Is the secret one with the infection

[karmic tartan]

Cursed?

[open remnant]

in the video the 2nd one

[ivory forum]

which ending is best ending and why is that separate from true

[mental roost]

the best ending is clearly the unobtainable one

[karmic tartan]

That was cut

It's not in the game anymore

[open remnant]

oh alr so when was it cut and how do people have it

[mental roost]

modding

[karmic tartan]

The cutscene was in the game files

[ivory forum]

hm

[open remnant]

oh alr so maybe itll be in the dlc or smt idk

[karmic tartan]

That video was just made by scraping the cutscenes from the files

[ivory forum]

does it mean anything btw?

the cut cutscene

[karmic tartan]

Probably GMS possessing hornet or sum

[lean elm]

Prob in lore I ain’t trying to spoil silksong so idk

[karmic tartan]

SS lore is probably the last place you'd want to be if you're avoiding spoilers

[foggy fractal]

has anyone talked about this dialogue yet
Weaver, in eighth part, last of their line, mortally wounded. Tracked and taken in the Blackbarrens. Four Choristors, one Reed lost to task.
same room as that one message that mentions the City of Steel
wtf is the Blackbarrens ?

[mental roost]

probably an area outside of pharloom

[karmic tartan]

That's the one in memorium?

[lean elm]

I am here for the fun I ain’t reading everything or needing out because of that

[foggy fractal]

nope

[karmic tartan]

Valid

[ivory forum]

a third kingdom has hit the hollow knight universe

[karmic tartan]

Actually 4th

You forgot the Ancient Civilization

[ivory forum]

true

[foggy fractal]

this room in the cradle with the cages mentions
Sandsea Waste
Blackbarrens
City of Steel

[ivory forum]

city of steel might be the place jiji and friends come from actually

[karmic tartan]

Maybe sandsea waste is the cut pharloom bay area

[lean elm]

Yea and that has so little about it we know only of the void

[karmic tartan]

Snail shamans try to be straightforward challenge

[visual glacier]

why did the weavers love fayforn so much

do they just love fluffy guys

[foggy fractal]

I doubt it cuz this dialogue is literally in game whilst the pharloom bay is well

[ivory forum]

btw are the shamans void confirmed now

[lean elm]

Wdym?

[foggy fractal]

cut

[lean elm]

About how they wield it or..?

[ivory forum]

because like they do disappear once you get the "void be gone" item

[karmic tartan]

Yes

[karmic tartan]

I know I'm coping

Okay also where is mister mushroom from

[lean elm]

Well I think they are deeply connected to void and soul yk

[uncut holly]

Those damn guys in High Halls are more skill with a blade strapped to their forehead than most swordsmen

[karmic tartan]

The walking ones or flying ones?

[uncut holly]

Yeah the flying ones

Golden mask

[tawdry flare]

That’s them being obliterated by the spell

[karmic tartan]

Oh maestros?

[tawdry flare]

They themselves are not void

[ivory forum]

that makes sense

[visual glacier]

i do find it really interesting that hornet can communicate with him however but the knight needs a charm

[edgy barn]

That's because Hornet knows the languange

[lean elm]

Literally search about the hk lore there are like an hour long videos about it and some go really in depth

[karmic tartan]

Simple

[ivory forum]

i did yeah

[lean elm]

But like void is kinda touchy thing tbh ain’t it

Because some of it we can only speculate

Btw the method of choosing the hollow knight was dumb af

[foggy fractal]

ok backtracking to this
y'all its def scrapped I just beat GMS and been waiting here like 3 minutes straight lmao

[ivory forum]

On another note, do we think we could see nightmare here? Possibly with a grown grimm child

[edgy barn]

We don't know what the method was.

[visual glacier]

are you gonna elaborate

[karmic tartan]

The knight has no voice to cry suffering, they must use spore to connect to the fungal hivemind

[karmic tartan]

Sorry lol

[visual glacier]

wait thats actually smart

[tawdry flare]

Plus there’s no achievement so it simply is Not Real

[edgy barn]

Pharloom is not dead yet.

[ivory forum]

I think the main issue with it would be like, SS isn't that dream based as was hollow knight

[lean elm]

Well it’s said in older version that it’s the first one that “climbed” up so yeah

[foggy fractal]

yep

[visual glacier]

mind blown ngl

[ebon silo]

Potentially queen Grimm I guess?

[edgy barn]

Source?

[lean elm]

Well idk I saw it somewhere these days while looking at the lore

[ebon silo]

Literally the cutscene you had to do to get the void heart

[cloud plover]

abyss cutscene right?

[lean elm]

I can try to find the video or whatever

If u want

[edgy barn]

I know about the cutscene

I played all of HK again two days ago

[ebon silo]

Worker: wait your telling me we have to build a parkour in this abyss for your children to climb up to prove themselves that they're hollow?

Pale king: yeah what's wrong with that?

[karmic tartan]

Do steel heart and speed completion at the same time

[tawdry flare]

My favorite lore moments always go
“Source?”
“Did you play the game?”

[karmic tartan]

Sorry I imagined wipeout

[visual glacier]

Our pure Vessel has ascended.

ascended quite literally

[lean elm]

Well I think it was changed like how they said the hollow knight was chosen I saw somewhere that in older version it’s said that the hollow knight was the first one to rise from that pit and in the newer it was changed to be more vague

[karmic tartan]

Help a bunch of vessels playing wipeout with the pale king just watching like a baseball dad

[edgy barn]

What I am saying is that you can't prove the chosen vessel is the first that go there and that there weren't other vessels that got there first and were thrown back in due to being impure

As you yourself said, it being judged pure due to being the first to get there would be pretty dumb

[cloud plover]

and then they get locked up for what they think is all of eternity 🤩 😋🤗

[karmic tartan]

Kind of annoying when that happens but eh

[karmic tartan]

Congrats! You win life in prison without parole!

[ivory forum]

Gm silk is a higher being right

[karmic tartan]

Yes

[edgy barn]

Yes

[karmic tartan]

She's a pale being too

[ivory forum]

We get a lot on pale beings this time around

[lean elm]

Well yeah that’s why I said it and also like that’s why it’s kind of a mystery how the other kids of the pale kind like the knight got out because there are a few and after the emergence of the hollow knight the hole was sealed

[cloud plover]

there are tons of things that you can’t prove and just have to infer what happened based on what we have

[lean elm]

I saw a cool art about hornet and her silk being a part of her pale being half beneath the mask

Yea there are kind of mysteries still

[edgy barn]

The usual theory is that there is a secret exit through deepnest due to the sharp shadow area + Nosk having multiple dead vessels in his lair

[lean elm]

Yea and I think I saw vessels in a wavers area

Hanging

[edgy barn]

That's Nosk's lair you are thinking of

[ebon silo]

I think that was the nosk

[lean elm]

Oh mb

[ebon silo]

Hold on hold on wtf even is nosk

[lean elm]

Sorry it’s kind of blurry for me

[cloud plover]

a shapeshifter that mimicked the vessels in order to lure them to its lair and consume them

that’s about all we know

[ebon silo]

Like is the dude a weird looking weaver who got infected or something

[ivory forum]

Mimicking bug i dont think it matters a lot

[edgy barn]

Mind-reading shapeshifter predator

[foggy fractal]

seems like just a spider to me
there are other spiders in the hk verse not every spider has to be a weaver

[lean elm]

Wait but doesn’t he contain park of the void or am I schizophrenic for remembering it wrong

[ebon silo]

of course

oh hey we have the same name that's cool

[lean elm]

Because I remember the radiance infection

[tawdry flare]

Yeah, like Herr- actually, wait…

[edgy barn]

Nosk is not Void.

[ebon silo]

Wait herra looks nothing from a weaver??

[tawdry flare]

She does in Red Memory. Kinda

[cloud plover]

many theories no confirmation on this

[lean elm]

Probably it’s more like an ability to wield it like a skill like how hornet doesn’t know she can sharpen her weapon with silk

[tawdry flare]

GMS just ascended one really messed up Pharlid okay

[edgy barn]

We just had a hours long discussion on that topic

[ebon silo]

nah her head isn't rounded or so but could be a defect idk

[lean elm]

She does like her head

[foggy fractal]

yeah this is gonna fuel discussion in this channel for years lmao
there was a big convo about it like earlier today

[ebon silo]

too small

[lean elm]

Yea but she has the eyes and everything and also hornet doesn’t look like a weaver too so

I don’t think it’s entirely based on the physiology

[cloud plover]

hornet is half pale being

[lean elm]

Still

[ebon silo]

That's because she's half wyrm

[cloud plover]

herrah definitely looks different than the normal weaver for a reason we just don’t know anything yet

[ebon silo]

You could say herras genes was the red cloak and the pale kings genes was the shell/head

[karmic tartan]

Is that a veemo

[cloud plover]

the red cloak isn’t part of her anatomy lol

[lean elm]

But how do you know actually if it’s because of that like that’s kind of the good and bad thing about hk u can’t confirm some things

[lean temple]

The cloak isn't genetic, more likely a cultural thing for the Deepnest Weavers

[karmic tartan]

Sign the form haters sign the form

[ebon silo]

Maybe

[karmic tartan]

If it was the flexible cloak scene would be horrifyiny

[cloud plover]

yes you’re right we can’t confirm anything, however we did see weavers that look like the ones in silksong in the original hollow knight, so herrah wasn’t created before the weavers were designed, they designed her differently for a reason

[edgy barn]

I stake my position that you won't find a satisfactory answer to the Herrah question because it's all a very unsubtle retcon

[karmic tartan]

CLEARLY INFECTED

[ebon silo]

didn't actually meant genetically but y'know likes symbolically

[lean elm]

Well it’s said that hornet was from 3 queens or something herra prob the queen of weavers the beehive queen and there was a third

[lean temple]

White Lady

[lean elm]

Yea

[cloud plover]

yea herrah was the weaver queen of deepest, but that doesn’t explain why she looks like she does when every other weaver has a consistent design

[lean elm]

So maybe it’s because she was a queen of sorts

[lean temple]

But what does that have to do with how Herrah looks (which I think is a pointless discussion that will never reach a conclusion)

[ebon silo]

We could maybe just theorize that herrah was a spider queen from hallownest and those weavers followed her

[cloud plover]

then how would hornet be related to gms

[lean temple]

Herrah is a Weaver bcz Hornet is a half Weaver

[honest anvil]

the answer is that we don't know why she looks different and it could be for any number of reasons. it's a pointless discussion and just assuming "oh yeah it's a retcon" because we don't know is really silly

[lean elm]

Or maybe it’s because of like idk her ancestors

[ebon silo]

Why does bro look different

[lean temple]

We don't know

[lean elm]

Maybe her mother that was a weaver might have made a deal with her or something similar

[ebon silo]

GMs must've been banging more than she needed

[tawdry flare]

I will NOT apologize to a member of the monarchy

[lean elm]

Yea but that is also kind of nice to just try to dissect a thing

[honest anvil]

also, genuinely: who cares if it's a retcon? like, why is that a problem? if they retconned it they did it elegantly

[lean temple]

We could assume GMS did a mistake or was experimenting when she made Herrah

[sinful nimbus]

the monarchy was based

[uncut holly]

Its gonna be real interesting for speed runners to have to go through that section in High Halls where its the Conductors Podium and tons of enemies come at you. Ive done it before but ive just done it again now, and it gonna be pain every time

[ebon silo]

And that was the reason the weavers fled because herrah was slightly above average

[edgy barn]

I argue it's a retcon because Herrah is described as a common beast in the original HK, while the weavers were already portrayed as special and distinct from the other deepnest creatures. Mind you, I don't think this is a problem, Silksong's story works better if Hornet is a weaver

[sinful nimbus]

You can't fault fantasy kings for being kings because its a fantasy kingdom

[uncut holly]

Even with cogflies

[lean elm]

Yea like not everything is purposeful but why just give up you might just give it a purpose

[ebon silo]

Architect charge attack 🗣️

[sinful nimbus]

Silksong's story has little reason to make Herrah a weaver

[lean temple]

The Weavers fled all over the lands. The Hallownest group is only one

[karmic tartan]

There's 4 kinds of theories in this channel

1. Great plausible theory
2. Almost plausible but has some holes
3. Swiss cheese
4. "Green Prince incident"

[ebon silo]

Majority I guess?

[sinful nimbus]

Those who know

[bold zodiac]

what is green prince invident

[karmic tartan]

You don't want to know

[lean temple]

Maybe, we don't know. Tbf the others mentioned were individuals

[lean elm]

I was about to ask that

[cloud plover]

the green prince incident. september 2025.

[edgy barn]

It starts with an I and ends up in a t

[karmic tartan]

If you really want to know I can dm you it

[ebon silo]

theory is that deepnest was the majority but individuals wanted to go somewhere else you can see signs in the cradles of one weaver captured from a city of steel so y'know yeah

[lean elm]

Ok

[bold zodiac]

Green prince was behind it all

[lean temple]

Not impossible

[ebon silo]

IT? Like the movie

[craggy smelt]

but it doesn't though! they were just born at the same tiiiime

[cloud plover]

i don’t think there is any evidence that the majority went to hallownest other than hallownest supposedly being close to pharloom based on hornet being taken there

[uncut holly]

It just clicked for me that Conductor Ballador is on life support using Silk

[foggy fractal]

Star what do you think of the 3 places that the cradle room mentions
Sandsea Waste
Blackbarrens
City of Steel

[ebon silo]

I mean there is alot of weavers but again for all we know is that we don't know

[craggy smelt]

wastes outside of every kingdom
blackwyrm territory
steel town for sure

[cloud plover]

yea we’d have to see another kingdom to figure it out

[ebon silo]

I want to see a memory black wyrm fight already

[karmic tartan]

DLC

[bold zodiac]

is there any lore on time travel beyond sands of karak and weavernest atla

[ebon silo]

Time travel tf

[karmic tartan]

What's the time travel things about sands of karak and Atla

[uncut holly]

Yknow the other Conductors like Conductor Mizzello, absolute monster. Conductor Ballador is alright though

[lean elm]

I heard it isn’t for sure that it’s a wyrm

[cloud plover]

booo gatekeeping

[craggy smelt]

you're like awakening/revisting the memory of a place, not eactly time traveling
now, maybe the Everbloom is time travel...

[uncut holly]

Did we ever see the Conductor who wrote the poem in the beginning?

[lean temple]

You forgot the og Conductor Romino

[foggy fractal]

imagine tho we get 3 dlcs and each one is for one of those locations 😭 99% faith 1% chance ahh hope... PLEASE TC I NEED THIS !!!!

[ebon silo]

The 5 white knights did fought it for the defense of hallownest

[craggy smelt]

no. Ballador is called the 'last'

[karmic tartan]

Where be romino

[uncut holly]

Yeah Conductor Romino, I dont think we ever see them

[edgy barn]

It's not time travel, you are entering memories.

[bold zodiac]

theres a weaver effigy talking about Atla the Weaver of time and theres a lore tablet at the entrance to karak talking about time and a water source or something

[uncut holly]

Well yeah Ballador is the last Conductor, but do we see Romino's corpse?

[cloud plover]

for real i was so confused about this

[craggy smelt]

Atla sounded more like a historian than a time traveler

[karmic tartan]

PLEASEEEE (and yk give us Godhome in one of those)

[lean temple]

Weaver of Time sounds like the Weavers just deified themselves

[cloud plover]

conductor romino info has gotta come in a dlc because why wouldn’t they just have the current conductor be the writer of the poem

[lean elm]

But I heard it’s worded differently than when they explain the pale king king of like it’s not a wyrm but it still sounds like a pretty nice thing to add

[foggy fractal]

Conductor Romino aura merchant,,, drops some bars at the start and never appears ever again !

[craggy smelt]

there's also a Weaver of Healing and a Weaver of the Path, called upon for healing and safe travel

[cloud plover]

fr

[ebon silo]

I guess it was a big ass worm so the knights assumed it was a wyrm

[lean temple]

Yep. So they literally made themselves gods

[karmic tartan]

What in the Roman gods

[sinful nimbus]

Sandsea waste - Probably has a buncha sandworms

City of Steel - Sharpe and co 🗣️
Blackbarrens - Black is void right? And who hates void? The City of Steel. Therefore its barren because Sharpe and co. desolated the place for being tarnished by the void

[lean elm]

Prob we don’t know it might just be one so have hope

[lean temple]

They wouldn't assume, if anything PK would correct them.

[craggy smelt]

they were certainly held as such by the other inhabitants of the kingdom
said of Weaver Atla:

By grace of your example, and our history held full in mind, our song is yours, as your name is sacred.

[lean temple]

It wouldn't be difficult for him to know whether or not it was one of his kind

[cloud plover]

i think it’s reasonable to assume the sandsea wastes refers to the harsh lands outside of the kingdoms

[edgy barn]

Keep in mind is spelled Blackwyrm and not Black Wyrm.

[karmic tartan]

Well that's a hurtful stereotype - Pale King, Battle of the Blackwyrm

[cloud plover]

or it’s literally just the blasted sands that actually makes way more sense

[craggy smelt]

Blackbarrens is also spell as one word
Blackwyrm town, gotta be

[short shale]

Guys I bet the final boss today and I wondered, considering how easy it was (4 tries) compared to other bosses and probably other post-game bosses I didn't make yet (||the ones of act 3||) why is there no-one in Pharloom trying to defeat ||Grand Mother Silk|| while there are probably plenty of stronger creatures?

[ebon silo]

He does has plenty of foresight

[karmic tartan]

Because numbers

[lean temple]

She still cannot be beaten by mortal bugs, Hornet remarks on this bcz Garmond and Zaza wanted to face her

[karmic tartan]

Quantity overwhelms quality

[ebon silo]

Cough cough tiger tank vs the million t34s

[edgy barn]

Hornet can beat GMS but she still can't kill her trough normal means

[cloud plover]

pale beings like gms seem more like mastermind rulers than super powerful in battle

[craggy smelt]

she's protected by harder bosses, like Lace. and the High Halls arena. And Trobbio. And the Cogwork Dancers.

[short shale]

But there were still bugs knowing how to "trap" her

[karmic tartan]

Does not apply to every situation

[lean temple]

The Shamans know more than your average bug, and still the best thing they could come up with was to dunk GMS into liquid death

[cloud plover]

only very particular bugs know how to do that, you’ll find out in act 3

[karmic tartan]

Cogwork dancers feels like a parkour challenge more than a boss

Also was the primacon music box theory right or not

[lean temple]

What did he say?

[karmic tartan]

That the cogwork core might double as a music box

[lean temple]

Well ig he was right then

Keeping GMS asleep

[ebon silo]

Wait what exactly was the green prince incident

[cloud plover]

i don’t know and honestly i’d rather not find out

[glass dagger]

Have we ever seen a doctor who worked at White Ward? Or is it just full of patients/experements

[ebon silo]

We cannot gatekeep precious knowledge

[edgy barn]

Someone proposed based on their overall backstory and certain translations that green prince and his lover were actually...

[cloud plover]

iirc the boss you fight there is the doctor

[ebon silo]

The last time someone did they burn the library

[lean temple]

The surgeon enemies were doctors

[ebon silo]

Why do they need surgeons anyway

[lean temple]

The unraveled is like a collection of tortured souls

[cloud plover]

to extend lifespans with silk

[cloud plover]

oh i see

wait

yea there is the collection of tortured souls but you’re saying the main guy that looks like a conductor is also a manifestation of these souls?

what if the unraveled is conductor romino

[edgy barn]

The unravelled is made up from a conductor, but a different one

[karmic tartan]

Unravelled

[ebon silo]

What if the unraveled was a baddie the entire time

[lean temple]

Pretty sure they just use the outfit of a Conductor

[karmic tartan]

Conducted Mizello

[cloud plover]

hmmmmmmmm

[ebon silo]

Like what if the unraveled had a curve the entire time and she hid it by wearing large clothing

[cloud plover]

yea that’s probably right but the identity of the conductor they’re using might be pretty interesting

[karmic tartan]

We find a psalm cylinder containing the last surgery of Conductor Mizello right to the left of the surgeons key

[cloud plover]

or it might be nothing at all

[karmic tartan]

Coincidence? I THINK NOT

[spark valve]

there is an enemy called surgeon
I wonder what their job was

[lean temple]

Could be Mizello or Romino or any other one we don't know

[karmic tartan]

They use sister splinter theme 😭

[cloud plover]

that’s what i’m thinking

[ebon silo]

Reuse probably

[karmic tartan]

It's in the journal entry

[cloud plover]

that info probably would’ve made the unraveled fight better though i don’t know why they would conceal the conductors identity unless they were irrelevant to the story

[lean temple]

I mean Hornet wouldn't know

[cloud plover]

yea i’m saying if it were the case that the conductor is either romino or the other one you mentioned tc likely would’ve put some worldbuilding lore that would give you their identity somewhere in the area

[lean temple]

Yeah

So it likely is just irrelevant

[cloud plover]

:(

[karmic tartan]

Cogito Ergo Sum

[lean temple]

Romino himself is also never mentioned

[cloud plover]

that’s the weirdest part

he’s gotta be mentioned somewhere in a dlc

[ebon silo]

I feel like trobbio must've had inspiration from skarssinger skarlmeista?? The fucking ant queen

[cloud plover]

cause why would this random mf with no implication to the story write the poem at the start of the game

[karmic tartan]

He wasn't a good poet

[ebon silo]

YES. HE. WAS.

[karmic tartan]

Monomon was a better poet

[lean elm]

Tf why are you quoting this

[ebon silo]

I think therefore I am

[karmic tartan]

Cuz I'm thinking

[lean elm]

Oook 😂😂

[karmic tartan]

I can't get the A.M. speech out of my head

[lean temple]

Why? And she kinda retired a while ago

[lean elm]

This the first thing I see when I look at it

[ebon silo]

Too bad she looking like a bum

[lean elm]

I feel you

[cloud plover]

i will be calling karmelita skarlmeista from now on

[buoyant salmon]

Is it strange that Grand Mother Silk has needle as legs?

[karmic tartan]

No

She flies why would she need lega

[buoyant salmon]

but why though

like why she put needles as her legs

[cloud plover]

she weird

probably to weave silk and stuff

[ebon silo]

I forgot to read the lore but what was the downfall of skarmelita?? Fuck I do not know her name the fucking ant queen what was her downfall was it just age and retirement

[lean temple]

She old

[cloud plover]

she old

and probably lost the will to fight back after gms took over pharloom

[buoyant salmon]

Ik that she volunteer to give her heart for Hornet to save Pharloom but it so sad

The Green Prince too, even though his love is gone, I don't him to die

[fiery mesa]

Hey yall, just completed the game, but im curious, why did the silk mother help us do the super jump? thought we were enemies and that she was controlling the lost lace

[buoyant salmon]

cuz she want to save Lace

[fiery mesa]

fair enough

[cloud plover]

she deeply cares about lace and her kingdom exclusively

[buoyant salmon]

talking with Snail Shamans, they said that she clinging because to saving Lace

I guess that she is truly love her creation (including Weaver)

[ebon silo]

Atleast hunters march is safe from citadel considering how strong their will is

[buoyant salmon]

But with wrong method of expressing it ofc

[fiery mesa]

And like, if yall could just tell me, what is even the silk mother, just another high being which also happened to be obsessive with mind control?

[buoyant salmon]

ye

[fiery mesa]

So she was still holding down there to keep lace alive? thats cute

[ebon silo]

I feel like when we fought trobbio we were actually just hitting his fur and did no mortal damage

[quick marten]

Seems to be a pale being specifically also

[buoyant salmon]

strongest higher being

[lean temple]

Or Hornet chose to spare him

[quick marten]

Hornet secretly loves the theatrics

[buoyant salmon]

also idk if Trobbio is actually related to Grimm Troupe

[cloud plover]

i think it’s pretty unlikely

[quick marten]

I don't think he is either but he would work for them no questions asked if they tried to recruit him

[fiery mesa]

I dont think so, i think hes just fabulous like that

[ebon silo]

Nah impossible he must've found inspiration to karmelita instead

[cloud plover]

what makes you think trobbio is connected to karmelita

cause shes kinda a dancer?

[ebon silo]

Yeah that's kinda it literally

[cloud plover]

well i guess performer your right

it is possible

[ebon silo]

But we really take it into perspective it kinda won't make sense I guess

[fiery mesa]

why didnt you save my boy garmond smh

[cloud plover]

i kinda get it though because her arena is a big stage, her name implies she is a singer, she dances throughout the fight

but i think it probably is a coincidence

[ebon silo]

And who does the same well trobbio

[foggy fractal]

Garmond was a lost cause 💔

[ebon silo]

But it's all but a theory anyway

[cloud plover]

garmond survives i’ll bet my mortgage on it

[fiery mesa]

i see what you did there

[ebon silo]

someone's going to be homeless

[cloud plover]

nah twin i’ve beat him, but his corpse never decays or disappears

[stoic estuary]

lace is pure silk giving her a resistance to the void

[uncut holly]

It seems Trobbio was the head of the Citadels theatre

[cloud plover]

usually npcs that are dead disappear

[mighty oyster]

Maybe

[uncut holly]

He has a residence room at the Theatre and a ton of Greek style chorus costumes

[fiery mesa]

everyone tryna worry about garmond but where is zaza gonna go 💔

[ebon silo]

For entertainment yeah for sure

[uncut holly]

Besides Trobbio being red, he doesnt seem to have any actual relation to the Grimm Troupe

[cloud plover]

you right that’s why garmond needs to survive 💔 💔

they need to keep conquering the world

[whole juniper]

zote will replace garmond

as the true beast of power he is

[quick marten]

Zote would die so fast in Pharloom

[limber anvil]

OK so verdania seems to have replaced the bay... But I don't see the bay proper in any version if the acmi map its original location was in the wormworks but it got moved then replacing pharloom bay

[quick marten]

They'd have his ass running on the treadmill in underworks

[whole juniper]

Pharloom is so much more dangerous and stronger than hallownest lol

[cloud plover]

zote would die in moss grotto

[fiery mesa]

ru doubting the power of his plot armor

[limber anvil]

The abyss was planned from the beggining

[scarlet timber]

.

[uncut holly]

Hallownest had its fair share of good combatants, but it seems the Citadel of Song has way more military at its disposal and consistently trains them way better than the City of Tears guards

[limber anvil]

But the flea lake was always planned on being above the bay.

[whole juniper]

fourth chorus also are being produced sooo

[ebon silo]

The hallownests defense was the 5 knights those knights were enough to defend the entirety of the kingdom for centuries well until something happened

[quick marten]

True I shouldn't underestimate the Invincible, Fearless, Sensual, Mysterious, Enchanting, Vigorous, Diligent, Overwhelming, Gorgeous, Passionate, Terrifying, Beautiful, Powerful, Grey Prince Zote.

[whole juniper]

don’t say centuries like you know how long they defended

[fiery mesa]

good, dont doubt big bro again

[ebon silo]

I was there

[uncut holly]

Yeah the Citadel also made the Sentinels which where robots that downloaded the techniques of the Pinstresses, and learned other peoples fighting techniques and where used to enforces and subjugate the lower levels back in the old days

[cloud plover]

yea andy rock was there

[ebon silo]

I'm a weaver from a distant land for real I saw them knight for centuries on god I was there

[cloud plover]

you don’t remember their cameo in hk?

[whole juniper]

Also the cogwork dancers

[ebon silo]

I was the photographer of the battle of blackwyrm

[cloud plover]

send some photos over twin

[uncut holly]

I mean the Citadel made alot of mechanical fighters ontop of many many tiers of bug guards

[ebon silo]

Nah they lost because of no preservation

[whole juniper]

The five great knights don’t stand much a chance against all of the citadel

[cloud plover]

🤦‍♂️

those photos coulda been useful af

[uncut holly]

Now could all of this stand up to the Pale King, probably not hes an eldtrich being, but it could probably beat his Military force. And it would probably give him atleast a little difficulty

[ebon silo]

Dung defender could just make the entire citadel stinky and they would win without firing an arrow

[karmic tartan]

Me who didn't notice the air currents in the fourth chorus fight:

[cloud plover]

pale king is not implied to be a powerful warrior

[karmic tartan]

He's a higher being

[uncut holly]

I mean hes a god

[cloud plover]

yes

so is gms

[karmic tartan]

Unn solos

[uncut holly]

Pale King is a god who shined a pale visage that hurt people who looked at him

[karmic tartan]

Yeah and GMS is strong

So strong we never actually beat her

We always just bind her

[uncut holly]

Yeah but GMS is invincible, we only beat GMS because we can Bind them

[ebon silo]

Pale king is a wyrm though well not anymore but if he was in his prime

[cloud plover]

yea but as a warrior they were not very strong

the pale king would not have needed his knights

[whole juniper]

Pale king is not some powerhouse

[quick marten]

Well tbf we just don't know that

[cloud plover]

we don’t know that you’re right

[quick marten]

He doesn't seem the type though from what we have seen of him

[cloud plover]

but it is reasonably speculated

[uncut holly]

What makes you say the Pale King wasnt strong himself, hes a Higher Being. He also has foresight, which means he essentially can lose any physical battles.

[ebon silo]

Because he had turned into a small being

[whole juniper]

It’s a higher chance that his power is just in knowledge and sentience. He has never been shown to be a warrior

[uncut holly]

I mean Foresight alone lets you cheat at fighting

[edgy barn]

You need to beat GMS to be able to bind her. I think the word you are looking for is Kill.

[cloud plover]

higher being doesn’t always correlate to extreme physical power in hollow knight

[whole juniper]

yeah and then he’d have no kingdom so

[whole juniper]

his foresight is pretty shitty considering his kingdom failed

[ebon silo]

Well yeah

[ebon silo]

His idea was flawed from the start

[uncut holly]

Yeah nothing can kill GMS except for Binding, and Binding seems to be absorbing them, but it seems that what happens when you absorb a god is that they come with certain instincts that where related to what that god was like.

[whole juniper]

A wyrm would take down any kingdom in its wyrm form.

[uncut holly]

Hornet basically turns into new GMS

[whole juniper]

Sheer physical size would take it down

[ebon silo]

well yeah they are literally the creators of civilization and destroyers if I remember in the lore of the wyrm

[uncut holly]

They might do things differently, but they would be very much like GMS

[whole juniper]

Just creators I believe

[uncut holly]

Yeah but you can see what your opponent is doing a few days ahead of time.

Your cheating at that point

[ebon silo]

Still be destroyers too if they tried hard

[cloud plover]

but we don’t know if that’s true, we don’t know how powerful his foresight was or if it was even practical in battle

[whole juniper]

Doesn’t matter if their military is much better

[uncut holly]

I mean either way even if his foresight was a few hours in the future it would still help him alot in combat

[whole juniper]

He wouldn’t be the one fighting

[ebon silo]

Pale king would not fight no he is far weaker than what he was before

[uncut holly]

You know something is coming before its already happened, and you can see the multiple possibilities of what will happen from your actions

[cloud plover]

that’s implying that foresight means you are gaining the memories of what will happen in the future, foresight could mean he has a very loose idea of how the future is going to go

[uncut holly]

Pale King is not at all weak, he is said to be so "powerful" that the Godseekers sensed him and came to Hallownest

[whole juniper]

Prime hallownest vs prime pharloom means pharloom winner

[uncut holly]

Pale King is absolutely not a weak fighter

[cloud plover]

powerful does not translate to being a warrrior

[uncut holly]

I mean what does it translate to, its power

[whole juniper]

He is not a fighter in the first place

[cloud plover]

those correlate but aren’t the same thing

[uncut holly]

He isnt but he could fight

Hes a god

[whole juniper]

His power is unification and knowledge not strength

[uncut holly]

We also know he dabbled in Silk, and that the Pure Vessel uses attacks that are themed around him

[cloud plover]

he could probably fight but to assume he would destroy any warrior in his path is not reasonable imo

[uncut holly]

He would have some combat prowess

[cloud plover]

yea that’s fair

[whole juniper]

He did not dabble in silk from what we know

But he did in soul and dreams

[uncut holly]

He absolutely did

[whole juniper]

since when????

[uncut holly]

Look at the Kings Workshop, its full of Silk Spools

Thats his place of work not the Weavers

[whole juniper]

He used that for writing

[quick marten]

First sinner made rune rage and the Hollow Knight uses it

[whole juniper]

Not tech

[uncut holly]

What... We dont know what he used it for, and we never see Silk writing.

[ebon silo]

I don't think pale king could fight but obviously he would have a moveset to destroy any fighter in his path if he ever gotten in a situation

[uncut holly]

So he probably didnt use it for just writing

[whole juniper]

we literally do.

The silk writing things were washed away in tear city

[uncut holly]

I mean its in his workshop were he makes the Kings and Wings moulds

[whole juniper]

Someone didn’t watch mossbag…

[whole juniper]

Those are void and not silk

[cloud plover]

i don’t see it i’m looking at a screenshot rn

[uncut holly]

Yeah they where washed away in the City of Tears, but it seems more likely that he learned the tricks of Weavers

Look at the Kings Workshop in the background theres giant silk spools

[whole juniper]

Why would he know their secrets

[edgy barn]

Silk spools were being secretly transported from the Weaver's den to the White Palace through secret stag stations

[limber anvil]

Something was planned here but it was cut... The bay was were verdania is now... But it was added shortly after barnicle/pharloom bay was cut... In 2022

[ebon silo]

I still think the 5 knights could overwhelm the citadel like the nature girl could just go through underworks and purified ducts and just take it over and dung defender taking a shit on the citdal

[whole juniper]

Where’s the evidence for that

[whole juniper]

My good friend the fourth chorus army

[uncut holly]

Because he would want to, also we know that the White Lady knows about stuff like the Nightmare Heart and is even congratulatory for it. Which means PK also know, it just seems they are very world savvy

[cloud plover]

where are the silk spools

[uncut holly]

Its to the left

[ebon silo]

Then again there's that

[quick marten]

Thats actually a great find thats interesting

[whole juniper]

They don’t exist

[ebon silo]

unless if we know what the balckwyrm is and how powerful it was we could scale the 5 knights and etc etc until then it's a mystery I guess

[quick marten]

Blackwyrm could've been a location for all we know

[whole juniper]

We just know how strong ogrim is and a small guess at hegemols

[cloud plover]

yea i definitely don’t remember them and considering silksong wasn’t planned until much later i doubt they would’ve made the silk spool sprites already

[foggy fractal]

I can't wait for people to get clearer photos of these early maps
if thats even possible anymore god I hope

[uncut holly]

Maybe it was another room, or maybe im remembering them in the Ancient Basin where they are here. I think they existed in another room but not the workshop

Ignore Reylea

[cloud plover]

ok i see

[edgy barn]

The stag stations at the palace grounds and distant village are both filled with silk spools and when you talk to the old stag, he tells you that he didn't know they existed. These same silk spools can be found at the weaver's den