sk-lore

[craggy bison]

horney huh.. nice nickname ig...

[robust wagon]

Songclave has my goat sherma on his whatcha-ma-call-it

[karmic tartan]

HE'S IN LEAGUE WITH JONI

[ember river]

Are you just telling me that in a gilded megastructure with soul powered robots nobody could get an accordion?

[prisma quail]

What’s the point of the haunting if GMS was already the monarch? Why did she need to haunt the kingdom?

[ember river]

Silksong with architect's crest is just Meet the Engineer

[karmic tartan]

Because pharloom is stupid

[spring escarp]

it si not like she wanted to

[ember river]

Also you can become the Pale King and spam flies, spikes and buzzsaws

[karmic tartan]

I thought you meant the actual architects

[spring escarp]

Yeah I saw the green one

[digital hemlock]

Architect crest

[robust wagon]

Stfu bro you may as well be infected yourself

[ember river]

I think the last one was from the bilewater tribals

[spring escarp]

The green one looks like the long bilehaven enemies

[robust wagon]

Pinstress my goat

[ember river]

Due to that nose

[spring escarp]

putrified ducts I think

[pine pecan]

We gotta talk about this

[viscid ridge]

We also get some insight for Lifeblood. Hornet says its very similar to tge Radiances infection, and says when she uses it, that her mind is at dangerous risk of being overtaken. We also see the alchemist have some dialogue that suggests that a higher being is behind all the lifeblood.

[craggy bison]

i wanna call hornet horney but "that" word gets in the way

[ember river]

I know he's in putrified ducts, but he looks like a bilewater tribal

[spring escarp]

The blue one is gracious

[spring escarp]

yes!

[karmic tartan]

INFECTED? THAT OVERSIZED LAMP DEFILED THE GREATNESS OF HALLOWNEST

[craggy bison]

it just sounds cool as a nickname and makes sense because of her horns

[spring escarp]

Maybe she taught them

[robust wagon]

Wait what's the third one

[digital hemlock]

something that has always baffled why did her servant the widow help with the haunting if she didn’t voluntarily start it

[spring escarp]

Or was killed by them like the seeker snail

[robust wagon]

Mhm and the pale king ran away like a little bitch

[pine pecan]

Its the third Sister. The Needolin Dialogue makes it really clear

[craggy bison]

WDYM RAN AWAY HE SAT PROUDLY ON HIS THRONE UNTIL HIS VERY LAST MOMENTS

[spring escarp]

I didn't check theneedolin dialogue...

[honest anvil]

oh, it has needolin dialogue?

[edgy relic]

we already knew a higher being was behind the scenes of lifeblood

[robust wagon]

Where is that in bilewater?

[teal finch]

do u happento have it on you? i missed it

[spring escarp]

We do?

[pine pecan]

Its in the Putrified Ducts, where you get the Wreath of Purity

[viscid ridge]

Its strange that pinstress and seamstress never mention their 3rd sister. I thought wearing the item you get from her corpse would trigger some dialogue, but they never mention her

[karmic tartan]

HE, IN HIS INFINITE WISDOM, DECIDED TO RETREAT CLEARLY SO THE KINGSOUL WOULD BE SAFE FROM ANY NASTY INTRUDERS

[spring escarp]

Oh the abyss creature is not rpoven to be a higher being

[robust wagon]

IN A DREAM. HE ABANDONED HIS KINGDOM LIKE A LITTLE GODDAMN BITCH

[spring escarp]

Or behind lifeblood

[edgy relic]

yeah you could literally see it in Hollow Knight

[digital hemlock]

Well they did have presumably many

[honest anvil]

this thing is in the background of the lifeblood place

[spring escarp]

Might just be just an infected beats

[craggy bison]

he just wanted to show off his fire platforming skills before dying

[spring escarp]

no proof

[viscid ridge]

Not concretely, we still aren't completely sure

[spring escarp]

yep

[craggy bison]

we don't know if it's a higher being it could just be a big thing that was mutated with lifeblood

[robust wagon]

OH YEAH, AS IF THAT 10-METER-LONG-TRAM-MAKING 'GENIUS' THOUGHT THAT FAR AHEAD

[spring escarp]

real

[karmic tartan]

It's in the lifeblood in Godhome which summons higher beings and in the biggest concentration of lifeblood we've seen so far

[viscid ridge]

O doubt thats a higher being, i just think that its a "normal" creature overtaken by lifeblood

[spring escarp]

real

[light saddle]

That’s true, though its influence in godhome is of note. Do we know if it’s sprite ever makes an appearance, or is it just lifeblood cocoons?

[karmic tartan]

THE TRAM PROVIDED SAFE TRANSPORTATION

[craggy bison]

so vengefly king is a higher being?

[spring escarp]

what

[lean temple]

It is there behind the locked door, in the darkness

[digital hemlock]

And if he would’ve succeeded he would’ve doomed the future of his already dead kingdom slightly more

[honest anvil]

oh yeah no i've got no clue what it is i just know that that's what they're talking about. personally i hope the abyss creature is a funny big guy named noodrab and he's exactly the size of bardoon

[spring escarp]

I didn't use lifeblood in godhome sorry ia ma so good

[karmic tartan]

I never said it only summoned higher beings

[viscid ridge]

We also see normal husks in godhome, so are they higher beings?

[digital hemlock]

It’s by the knight getting the king soul that they’re able to unradiancethe radiance

[light saddle]

Hmmm

[karmic tartan]

I NEVER SAID ONLY HIGHER BEINGS

[spring escarp]

The tram was like a horizontla escalator.

[craggy bison]

so what point are you making? i thought you were trying to prove it's a higher being

[spring escarp]

Because hallownest was that co venient and advanced

[pine pecan]

The Green One has this for Needolin Dialogue:

"Dear Sisters..."
"Feared by all..."
"Revered by all..."
"Must we hide?"

Vs Pinstress:

"I remember you... My sisters passed..."
"An order lost of maidens fair..."
"You were the finest... bravest... caste..."

[karmic tartan]

Nah I don't really care lifeblood don't belong in Hallownest either way

[digital hemlock]

wasn’t safe for the workers

[karmic tartan]

Correct

[lean temple]

In godhome

[spring escarp]

Oh hey I did hear that

[honest anvil]

it does look pretty Higher Being-Esque, to be fair. it looks like some kind of giant god creature of lifeblood. like we don't have proof but it does look like that

[light saddle]

It’s also worth noting that it’s not used in the same way as normal husks/“gods” are. Rather, it, like the Higher Beings brought over, only make an appearance and don’t actually interact with us.

[karmic tartan]

ITS SAFE ENOUGH FOR A DELICATE FLOWER

[spring escarp]

Jumping into conclusion

[craggy bison]

the abyss creature appears in the background of the lifeblood place in the abyss where you get lifeblood core and the godhome lifeblood place

[spring escarp]

Everyone here loves to jump into conclusions

[silent phoenix]

I love drugs <3

[viscid ridge]

Yeah im aware of that, but i meant like making a specific remark about their 3rd sister. Maybe tc will add some dialogue for that

[craggy bison]

i really wanna know what that thing is team cherry please tell me

[spring escarp]

Team cherry loves to not tell shit

[honest anvil]

it is a very normal conclusion to jump to to think that the abyss creature is some kind of god-like being akin to unn

[digital hemlock]

speaking of which is the everbloom also a delicate flower

[lean temple]

I'm not part of this discussion. Someone else asked if it was in godhome and I showed them

[digital hemlock]

why is it not delicate though

[spring escarp]

Or maybe it ain't

[craggy bison]

they didn't even say anything they just said that it appears in godhome

[pine pecan]

It seems like it was an order, not just 3. Probably used to be a lot more.

[robust wagon]

Lifeblood is probably native bro

[honest anvil]

also possible!

[spring escarp]

Someone her esyaing it si definetly a higher being

[edgy relic]

abyss creature is also only ever seen in the dream realm. doesnt neccessarilly mean anything but its intriguing

[lean temple]

They're the same thing

[viscid ridge]

Nkg and Radiance, and even Pure vessel to an extent

[light saddle]

Maybe not. But it’s appearance in godhome does distinguish it from your typical bug or “god” as godseeker calls them

[honest anvil]

no? isn't it down in the abyss?

[karmic tartan]

That damn moth was native too and look where it got us

[edgy relic]

yeah, that door leads to the dream realm lol

[spring escarp]

well it might be a god the same way mosa charger is

[digital hemlock]

so is it just because zemer is a terrible gardener

[spring escarp]

and vengeflies somehow

[pine pecan]

Abyss Creature also has its own blue essence

[teal finch]

this is confirmed by dialogue w pinstress, they also trained the bugs in the citadel (which is why second sentinel has an extremely similar mvoeset to pinstress)

[viscid ridge]

But that room seems to be in the dream realm

[robust wagon]

Oh yeah bc the infection 'wasn't even the PK's fault'

[honest anvil]

oh is it? i never noticed that if so

[craggy bison]

that place is weird. it's not in the dream world and yet has so much dream essence in it

[karmic tartan]

IT WASNT

[teal finch]

the citadel turned on the order so all thats left is pin and seam

[digital hemlock]

Because she took these flowers to hallownest and never watered them they are just one hit away from dying

[spring escarp]

Anyone here has any guess on how far pharloom and hallownest are

[lean temple]

Not sure. Hornet mentions about needing it from her memory so maybe the memory one is more durable somehow?

[spring escarp]

Will hornet even move back to hallownest

[craggy bison]

probably more than 5 meters i think

[karmic tartan]

THE MOTHS CHOSE TO FORGET RADIANCE, THE PALE KING NEVER FORCED THEM TO

[spring escarp]

She has a neat bellhome

[craggy bison]

she'll definetly visit

[edgy relic]

yeah theres a bunch of blue dream essence and you dont "exit" it until you collect the item, then you wake up instead of walking out

[robust wagon]

YEAH, AND THE REASON PHARLOOM GOT SCREWED TOTALLY WASNT BC OF THE WEAVERS

[spring escarp]

It is far enough she lost muscle mass

Ans got weak on the trip

[digital hemlock]

Which seems more plausible than if they’re delicate from the get-go and she has to fight as a knight without taking any hits

[karmic tartan]

YOU IMPUDENT FOOL READ THE REST OF WHAT I SAID

[light saddle]

Definitely not pure vessel. Radiance and NKG are already bosses, so it doesn’t really matter much. White Lady and Unn are just brought on in the background, much like the Lifeblood Beast.

[digital hemlock]

so I guess it makes sense that they were all everblooms at the start

[honest anvil]

likely hornet's silk helps sustain it, or she's protecting it within her shell or something. the knight has to hold the thing but hornet can probably hide it in her cloak

[pine pecan]

That makes a lot of sense. I think there could be a relation to both the Craw and Stilkin. The Pinstress boss moveset has a lot of Overlap with both, and we know there is at least 1 other sister that has some relation to the Stilkin

[spring escarp]

What if I made a batisphere oit of everbloom petals and siljand dipped into the void.

[lean temple]

That too yeah

[karmic tartan]

What the hell was mourner growing back there to have infinite everblooms

[spring escarp]

And kept going

[robust wagon]

OH I READ IT, PK SHOULDVE READ UP ABOUT THE REGION AND KNOWN TO KEEP OUT OF THE RADIANCES TERRITORY

[digital hemlock]

She did say they were each one of a kind

So she presumably wasn’t growing any new ones

[karmic tartan]

READ? THERE PROBABLY WASNT AN ALPHABET

[craggy bison]

abyss creature is creepy it just watches
i want lore

[digital hemlock]

Just taking from a very huge supply

Which supports the zemer terrible gardener theory

Since she didn’t know it was possible to grow them she mistakenly thought they were one of a kind

[lean temple]

2ns Sentinel straightup uses most of the needle arts too

[honest anvil]

we still don't know where the everblooms and ze'mer come from, by the way
it's not pharloom. entirely different third kingdom. maybe everblooms are really common there and it's just that they suffer outside of their natural habitat. we don't know

[light saddle]

Actually, I may be misremembering — but I’m quite certain the only Higher Being we fight is Radiance. NKG is merely an avatar for the heart, iirc

[craggy bison]

what are we gonna fight the drugs

[toxic quest]

they come from the "lands serene," whatever the fuck that means

[robust wagon]

THE MOTHS HAD COMPLICATED ARCHITECTURE, AND THE MANTISES, THE MUSHROOMS, THE MOSSKIN AND THE DAMN WEAVERS. REALLY DISRESPECTING THE NATIVE BUGS OF YOUR OWN DAMN KINGDOM

Whoops forgot to reply

[karmic tartan]

GMS

[craggy bison]

who

[digital hemlock]

Also for the memory everbloom, did the white lady just make it?

[edgy relic]

youre right

[toxic quest]

the everblooms

[spring escarp]

Yes but can make a diving bell out oc everbloom petals and dive into the void

[light saddle]

Sorry, I meant in godhome

[craggy bison]

oh

[robust wagon]

THE MOTHS HAD COMPLICATED ARCHITECTURE, AND THE MANTISES, THE MUSHROOMS, THE MOSSKIN AND THE DAMN WEAVERS ALL HAD LORE TABLETS. REALLY DISRESPECTING THE NATIVE BUGS OF YOUR OWN DAMN KINGDOM

[spring escarp]

If it ever blooms why it stopped blooming

[karmic tartan]

HALF OF THOSE GOT THERE AFTER THE PALE KING

[honest anvil]

it'll probably work for a while, but i imagine it does not last forever

[digital hemlock]

Or was it an actual everbloom and the white lady just picked it and gave it to hornet using memory magic

[robust wagon]

AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?

[hardy linden]

Sorry to jump in, but I want to ask it again... Has anyone given the Craw trinket to the Old Penitent?

[light saddle]

More heresy? Smh, seize this man

[spring escarp]

the moths are fucking hippies living on a vraveyard

[toxic quest]

how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood

[spring escarp]

wait what

genius idea

[karmic tartan]

THE DISCUSSION WAS PERTAINING TO RADIANCE NOT UNN OR THE FUNGAL CORE YOU ABSOLUTE BUFFOON

[craggy bison]

the what

[spring escarp]

IMA TYPE IN ALL CAPS TOO

[lean temple]

The Everbloom is "not of WL" so she probably can't make them. She gave one to Hornet

[honest anvil]

it's kind of strange
hornet... kind of summoned it?

[subtle plaza]

So does gms sing

[robust wagon]

If respecting the native bugs of the kingdom is heresy then put in under the guillotine

[hardy linden]

The Craw Trinket has in its description, "Absolves the bearer of all crimes" but Hornet puts it in her bellhome.

[karmic tartan]

AT LEAST PALE KING WORKED WITH THE NATIVES PHARLOOM JUST KILLED EVERYBODY

[digital hemlock]

Pk kept them thriving, GMS murdered her neighbors

[spring escarp]

She imagine it into her mind

[toxic quest]

shaman ritual magic id assume

[light saddle]

As you wish

[spring escarp]

Buzz

[robust wagon]

YOU SAID THERE WASNT AN ALPHABET, AND IM SHOWING YOU HOW THERE WERE PLENTY IN THE KINGDOM

[craggy bison]

no i meant what's te old penitent i forgot

[lean temple]

You can do that???!

[karmic tartan]

NOT WITH THE FOLLOWERS OF RADIANCE

[honest anvil]

she pulled the everbloom out of her past and recreated it within her silk. so she gave it to herself, i guess, but pulled it from a memory where the white lady was showing it to her

[karmic tartan]

ALSO THE FUNGAL WASTES LORE TABLETS BARELY COUNT

[spring escarp]

imagine if the white lady flower just disappears in the apst

[toxic quest]

tbf i've always imagined hallownest language as sort of like chinese or something, which doesnt have an alphabet

[lean temple]

Secret NPC in the Slab

[spring escarp]

And the pale king dies without it

[hardy linden]

He's in the 'empty' cell in the Slab. Just play the needolin and he appears. He's put there because of an unnamed sin

[spring escarp]

yes he has baritone voice

[robust wagon]

SO THEY COULD MAKE COMPLICATED ARCHITECTURE, AND STATUES BUT YOU STILL THINK THEY DIDNT HAVE AN ALPHABET???

[karmic tartan]

I'm tired as hell so I refuse

[pine pecan]

Hornet: "Pinstress, why do you choose to live amidst these storm-swept caverns? Surely there are more hospitable places?"

Pinstress: "Somewhere gentler? Warmer? I'd only go soft! How else is one expected to maintain their wits?"

Hornet: "Then this is not a place of hiding? That Citadel up top seems no friend to the free, or the strong who'd choose to remain apart."

Pinstress: "...Aye. Well, yes. That too's a reason, though one that shames me some.
Our grand Citadel learnt well from the training of Pinstresses past. Then it went and turned those teachings upon us!
Despite our superior skills, our numbers have always been few and their strength overwhelmed.
Of my once revered order, only two of us remain, wormed away in Pharloom's forgotten corners, and my pin-sibling, she's lost herself to more peaceable pursuit."

---

So there was an order, now there are only two. My theory is that they probably were located where Bilewater once was. We know Bilewater used to be beutiful before the Citadel corrupted it with its waste. And the Corpse says "Must we hide?" maybe implying that she did not hide, and thus perished.

We can also tie this to the Two Remaining sisters being on the opposite sides of the map from Bilewater.

(This would also directly tie them to the Stillkin.)

[hardy linden]

I don't know, that's why I'm asking lol

[craggy bison]

where exactly is it i wanna see

[robust wagon]

Okay but when we say alphabet it's just in place of any writing system

[karmic tartan]

Also how does stone masonry involve writing

[hardy linden]

Above the bench cell in the Slab iirc

[spring escarp]

I seee

Why the citadel fucked everyone

[toxic quest]

yeah ik im just joking lol

[spring escarp]

The bilewatwr, the mantises, the pintresses....

What was the point.

[craggy bison]

that's a very good question honestly but i don't wanna beat the entire game again to test it out

[honest anvil]

'tis the fate of mortals caught below a being pale

[hardy linden]

I went there during Act 3 and imagined Hornet would stay there because she blames herself on some level about the Void invading Pharloom

[robust wagon]

The mantises are in Hallownest

[hardy linden]

same

[honest anvil]

i think verdania has grasshoppers?

[edgy relic]

simply because they dont care about anyone else

[pine pecan]

Pale King gets the "Least Worst Pale Being Award"

[spring escarp]

grasshopers

[spring escarp]

sure but what was the point

[craggy bison]

wait i have a friend who is approaching act 3 rn i might ask him to try it but i forgot where you get the craw summons thing

[spring escarp]

what were they getting

[ebon silo]

I'm genuinely convinced that the multibinder is a buttplug

[spring escarp]

was the weavers doing it or?

[honest anvil]

where is the old penitent anyway i never found him

[spring escarp]

the craw house

[pine pecan]

Weavers were not in charge

[craggy bison]

can you tell me where it is tho

[spring escarp]

bototm

[hardy linden]

idk, it was randomly thrown at me while I was benching for Skarr Singer

[ebon silo]

WHOS AGREEING WITH ME?!!!

[craggy bison]

that's where you use the craw summons

[spring escarp]

It is unclear to me what caused the downfall of allthese trives

[lean temple]

The 2 remaining sisters are Seamstress and Pinstress, and I think seamstress did the same modification with Pinstress's hood as she did with Hornet

[edgy relic]

nobody. its totally innapropriate

[spring escarp]

yes

[toxic quest]

untrue

[spring escarp]

No, the surface memento is

[craggy bison]

where is the old penitent

[spring escarp]

slab

[pine pecan]

IDK, we know they were directly under GM Silk. They tried all sorts to flee or usurp her

[craggy bison]

i know but where

[spring escarp]

jail cells

door in the wall

[hardy linden]

Slab, in the empty cell above the bench on the right side

[honest anvil]

if somebody sends me the exact location of the old penitent i can probably test it
my steel soul save has the craw summon but hasn't done the gauntlet yet

[craggy bison]

ok thanks

[honest anvil]

unless cloroq has it covered

[toxic quest]

they did functionally usurp her for most of pharlooms history

[pine pecan]

How so? /genuine

[edgy relic]

she was put to sleep

[lyric trail]

Guys I've never played the og hollow knight and just watched a lore video, is the delicate flower the everbloom?

[honest anvil]

yes

[lyric trail]

oooo thats so cool

[spring escarp]

ye bro...

[toxic quest]

she was sent to a slumber, that's why the citadel exists in the first place

[honest anvil]

the weavers did rule over pharloom for a long time. the point of putting mother silk to sleep was "themselves free to lavish in their false rule."

[spring escarp]

what quote is that

[honest anvil]

unmasked mask maker

[hardy linden]

Might be one of these, but it's on the same side

[edgy relic]

oh damnit how do you unmask him

[honest anvil]

hit him with a nail art or a silk skill

[spring escarp]

nail art ?

yes

[edgy relic]

i thought i did a silk skill hm guess not

[honest anvil]

i know silkspear works i did that

[pine pecan]

Ok... I missed that, but that begs the question, why were all the weavers jailed/ hiding/ fleeing?

[spring escarp]

lIt would be funny if I took thebstag station ont he dreama nd got to dream hallownest

[toxic quest]

they fled once they realized that gms wouldnt stay asleep

[spring escarp]

she would but wouldn't stay serene

[edgy relic]

first sinner is jailed because they denounced the weavers false rule

[spring escarp]

No, she was mad at GMS

"she told us we were holy"

[lyric trail]

i got it next to the bench in east farfields in the act 3 area

[spring escarp]

"she lied"

"she" an individual that uplifted her

[craggy bison]

yeah i looked it up it turns out it just spawns near a bench you sit at in act 3

[toxic quest]

she figured out the truth behind the weavers origin and got pissed at gms, i guess this pissed of the weavers egos and threatend their theocratic authority

[edgy relic]

yeah so she denounced the rule of weavers because they werent holy yeah?

[pine pecan]

So the timeline is:

1. GM Silk turns Pharlids into Weavers, calls them her Daughters
2. Weavers turn on GM and put her to sleep bc Mad at her for Lying to them
3. Weavers rule Citadel for a time
4. GM Silk begins to wake up
5. Weavers Panic and leave?

[honest anvil]

i don't know that she ever denounced the rule of weavers, but she did go against their religion which stated they were divine

she might have been like "oh yeah we still deserve to be queens but like we're not god queens we're just queens"

[pine pecan]

6. GM Silk begins capturing Weavers

[edgy relic]

so it was a bit of both

maybe

[ember river]

I'm not entirely sure all weavers came from pharlids

[craggy bison]

i don't think bringing the craw thing to him will do anything there's no way he just goes "oh this thing absolves me of all my sins? let's go i'm free!"

[ember river]

The idea conveyed is that they weren't offspring from a pale being

[pine pecan]

At least the First Sinner, and Hornet says that she feels a direct kinship with them in the log

[ember river]

But rather, normal bugs altered into Weavers

[honest anvil]

but we don't know really what the first sinner sin was, other than apostasy. the specifics of her sentencing are non-specific (say that 10 times fast)

[ember river]

Then they might all come from pharlids, yeah

[pine pecan]

"Something in their assault reminds me of my own skill, though their talents are born purely of instinct. My technique is formed from hard training."

[spring escarp]

That's my guess yes sorta

[spring escarp]

Yesssss

[ember river]

I think that her sin being apostasy and her final sentence sheds enough light

[honest anvil]

i mean all the weavers are spiders and they all look the same so they're probably all pharlids

[spring escarp]

yes

[ember river]

"She called us her daughters. She called us divine. She lied"
That's apostasy

[spring escarp]

She rebelled against GMS

[terse warren]

Why not? They all look the same, and we saw one come from a Pharlid. They're all spiders, it only makes sense that they're all Pharlids

[spring escarp]

hence why she is the first sinner

Wait i think i found a plot hole

[honest anvil]

we don't even know who sentenced her, whether it was GMS herself, the other weavers, the other weavers for GMS, etc

[teal finch]

not sure when the weavers leave, at some point the weavers do give the citadel bugs authority so that they can just completely not be involved but i dont know if this is because they were also deciding to leave at the same time

[pine pecan]

It is pretty funny that there is serious "Mommy Issues" throughout Silksong, it seems that Grand MOTHER silk just wanted to be a mom, but was a bad mom

[ember river]

Was it against GMS or against the weaver rule

[hardy linden]

dumb statement, but First Sinner doesn't have a round head...

[spring escarp]

If the first sinner sin was rebelling against GMS, why didn't the weavers free her?

[ember river]

People mess up the timeline a lot by overlooking this

[spring escarp]

If the weavers took control for a whike?

[honest anvil]

"we don't even know who sentenced her, whether it was GMS herself, the other weavers, the other weavers for GMS, etc"

[spring escarp]

Who said that

[ember river]

Because the running theory is that other weavers sentenced her for denying their own divinity

[honest anvil]

me, just now

[ember river]

It's not necessarily the doing of Silk

[spring escarp]

So she was hated by both GMS and the weavers at the same time?

I mean she defiently has beef with silk

[hardy linden]

Could be done as an example

[honest anvil]

it's certainly not a plot hole, we just don't know the full details of what went down and when it happened

[edgy relic]

because she threatened weaver rule by denouncing that weavers were holy like common bug thought them to be

[spring escarp]

Since she talks about a single individual claiming them divine, nearly certian gms

[ember river]

Where do you take it she was hated by GMS

[spring escarp]

"she told us we were holy"

[ember river]

GMS said they were divine and her daughters

[spring escarp]

"She lied"

[hardy linden]

That's what the First Sinner thinks

[spring escarp]

"She" not "them"

[pine pecan]

First Sinner not First Weaver hmmm

[teal finch]

something that i havent seen people talk about when piecing a timeline also is when did the weaver graves that you see scattered around pharloom get placed

[ember river]

Yeah, weavers ran the joint thinking they were pretty much gods

[hardy linden]

GMS said that they were holy, but First Sinner rejected that notion

[spring escarp]

Also it would be weird to the weavers to believe themselves divine because GMS told them so yet fight against GMS

[ember river]

So if one within their ranks started saying "We may actually not be that different from the lowliest of bugs" they'd be pissed off

[spring escarp]

Something doesn't quite add up in this whole ordeal

[pine pecan]

We still don't know exactly what the Citadel Religion was, who started it or anything. Did GMS start it, or the Weavers?

[honest anvil]

it's entirely possible that GMS and the weavers were still working in concert, but FS tried to spread the truth and was branded a heretic for her statements and constricted as punishment. later on, other weavers realised she was right/decided to stop following GMS/whatever and may have regretted what they did

[toxic quest]

they just didnt like being under gmss authority

[spring escarp]

could be

[ember river]

It's easy to explain that, if they thought themselves as gods they wanted to rule freely

[spring escarp]

Maybe they bought her whole ideology

But didn't like her

[honest anvil]

like there could have been 2000 years between FS being branded a sinner and the citadel being constructed

[spring escarp]

hence they kept First sinner in jail

Despite the common enemy

[ember river]

In truth there are various ways to explain why First Sinner was condemned

[craggy bison]

personally i don't think this will work but it wouldn't hurt to try

[spring escarp]

Or maybe she was forgotten there

Since her cells is hidden

Wait a second

[hardy linden]

Thank you

[spring escarp]

Why the weavers talk to hornet

when you free her

[ember river]

They are still alive

[spring escarp]

Inconsistent

[spring escarp]

yeah but they say "bind our power"

[craggy bison]

i can't really try myself tho unfrotunately

[spring escarp]

So they are treating first sinner as part of them

[ember river]

First Sinner seems to be in a similar state to the other weavers along your path

[craggy bison]

where's the guy that has a steel soul run close to the craw trinket thing

[spring escarp]

Or maybe it is the first sinner lying to hornet so she frees her?

Why the first sinner attacks hornet?

[ember river]

We have no reason to believe that

[edgy relic]

"If Hornet dies in the First Sinner's fight, she reappears outside the cell and does not lose her Rosaries; a cocoon is not created either. This may imply that the fight occurs in an alternate realm, as seen in some of the other Weaver memories."
Ngl i beat First Sinner first try so i had no idea about this

[pine pecan]

Why was GMS trying to capture all the weavers?

[ember river]

Also, first sinner attacks hornet but Hornet doesn't truly die

[spring escarp]

I guess this means the first sinner and the weavers weren't in good terms then

Which explaisn why she was kept bound

[ember river]

It's not a proper dream fight but it's not a fight to the death

[pine pecan]

yeah, I thought that was weird.

[viscid ridge]

We aren't completely sure

[modest coyote]

infertility

[craggy bison]

can you do it i really wanna know what happens

[spring escarp]

Oh yeah it happens in a dream...

So maybe the first sinner is helping

[pine pecan]

Not wrong. I heard somewhere that the Weavers also couldn't produce offspring in the normal sense (Hornet notwithstanding)

[spring escarp]

Maybe she cannot be freed

the same way the other weavers in statues

[ember river]

Not quite

[spring escarp]

Maybe she is kept in a state of

[modest coyote]

yep i have a whole theory about this

[spring escarp]

semi death

[ember river]

You do spend tools

But you don't die and get coccooned

[spring escarp]

first sinner is hard to pin down....

[pine pecan]

mommy issues theory intensifies

[modest coyote]

there are a lot flaws/evidence-lacking aspects of it

[spring escarp]

so much weird shit happening on her fihgth

[robust wagon]

Where is this from?

[ember river]

I'm not convinced that isn't a retcon from hk

[viscid ridge]

My only question is, why exactly is the First Sinners ability considered special? Teleporting using silk seems way more powerfull than blazing runes, i just dont get why Hornet keeps hyping the ability up so much 😅

[pine pecan]

We do know there was the whole thing with Lace. GMS sacrificed herself for Lace in the end.

[robust wagon]

Bc so many other bosses already teleport

[ember river]

What do you mean keep hyping. It was probably something unique, the teleport may not have been

[modest coyote]

but one asks the obvious question: for a being so obsessed with having children (in a sense)- why do we see no biological children (comp to pale king who had a bajillion)

[pine pecan]

That seems like normal weaver stuff, from Widow at least

[ember river]

To be fair that was more White Lady's doing

[modest coyote]

i think the only reasonable answer is infertility whether due to physical or psychological reasons

[modest coyote]

pale king was fertile enough to break the weaver curse

[hardy linden]

She's a tree

[robust wagon]

Bro 😭

[viscid ridge]

Its definitely unique, but why tho, i don't get it, its just like a silk bomb essentially i just dont see that much power in it but thats just me

[spring escarp]

Maybe she strugfled to have why would she uplift bugs and and make chikdren out of sikj

[modest coyote]

its literally true tho

[ember river]

Again, the weaver curse is probably a retcon, there were weaver children in hk

[spring escarp]

She can't have them, like her creatiosn

[pine pecan]

Huh. Both White Lady and GMS are both pale beings that seem obsessed with having Children. Connection?

[robust wagon]

Likely

[viscid ridge]

Widow doesn't teleport if i remember correctly, she just jumps very fast

[spring escarp]

Having children si a way to expand their powdr

[modest coyote]

true but we have to deal with it. my answer? as u become less and less weaver, the less the curse affects u. by the time ur idk 1/4 weaver, it doesnt actuallt affect u

[spring escarp]

makes sense

[pine pecan]

There are myths and things about gods wanting to have children so badly. WAIT, BLOODBORNE HEAR ME OUT

[modest coyote]

also as we see in silksong- because called "children" doesnt necessarily imply "biological"

[ember river]

Yeah but some weaver had to give birth for that fourth part to exist

[spring escarp]

Or maybe GMS made uer creations unfertile, as to have them not have what she can't

[modest coyote]

we dont know why, or for what reason exactly

[spring escarp]

the first generation probably used loopholes like herrahthe beast

[modest coyote]

to start: there almost certainly is no male (pure) weavers

[edgy relic]

apparently you just dont truly die in FS fight, i didnt know until i looked it up on the wiki

[viscid ridge]

Yeah we know of no male weavers

[spring escarp]

Would explain why hornet is lesbian coded

[ember river]

Herrah was an outlier, Hornet being half wyrm is an extremely rare occurence

[pine pecan]

Lol, we know TC loves Souls Likes, in BloodBorne, they have "Great Ones", who can't have their own children. This could be an inspiration for TC Grand Mother Silk?

[spring escarp]

I think herrah is alrrady an hybrid if I am going to be honest

[modest coyote]

very possible with all the other souls influence in the game, although im not certain

[spring escarp]

She looks way too different.

[ember river]

I know, but IIRC it was implied there was a weaver king in hollow knight

[ember river]

It's not, hornet is weaver in half part

[modest coyote]

no shes 100% not a hybrid, hornet is explictly confirmed to be 50% weaver

[spring escarp]

How do we know she is half part

[ember river]

Because we are told so explicitly

[modest coyote]

cause she is said "half weaver half wyrm"

[edgy relic]

the order sent out to capture her iirc

[spring escarp]

I guess herrah is just obese then

Or maybe a weaver made of a different type of spider

[pine pecan]

Herrah was also a "Common Bug", or a "Lesser Weaver" we know

[ember river]

"Full chamber to the kingdom of the Pale Wyrm
Weaver, half part
(...)"

[viscid ridge]

There is a choral commandment that says hornet is half weaver, meaning Herrah is a full weaver

[modest coyote]

yeah i mean it could just be that giving birth messes up pure weavers' organs ands bodies

[spring escarp]

I mean, there are multiple types of pharlids right

[pine pecan]

2, Pharlids and Diver Pharlids

[spring escarp]

Good enough

[upper narwhal]

no wonder she is called a beast, you wouldnt want a spider that big to eat u

[ember river]

I assumed that was about the Pale King, a Higher Being, having offspring with a normal bug

[modest coyote]

we see herrah after she has given birth- it is possible before giving birth she looked like other weavers

i am just speculating tho

[spring escarp]

absonrmal i guess

[ember river]

Weavers aren't THAT normal but still nowhere near higher beings

[modest coyote]

.the meta reason is cause its a bit of a retcon

[modest coyote]

theyre a bit like elves in LoR

[pine pecan]

Very possible, could be a misinterpretation from when we were dealing with just HK

[spring escarp]

they smart tho

[ember river]

So are snails, and so was monomon

[spring escarp]

replaced the womb with a second brain

[spring escarp]

the smartest bug they say

[modest coyote]

there are lots of bugs in hallownest with independent higher thought

[spring escarp]

henve why they might see themselves as divine

the snails are more knowldgeable than smart

[viscid ridge]

We do see 3 types of weavers, we see the normal weavers from the first game who are just circle with cloaks, Herrah who is also a weaver but looks very different, and the Pharloom weavers have 4 spikes on their torsos. So my assumption is that weavers can look different, but are all connected by their ability to make silk

[modest coyote]

i dont think weavers would be thought of as anything special in hallownest

[pine pecan]

The Weavers also tried to create a Daughter with Eva or whatever her name was. Atla?

[fallow rose]

i have just reached the cradle and just wanted to confirm, there were multiple part weavers that the citadel wanted to capture? not just hornet?

[terse warren]

We see Herrah while Hornet is a kid in Red Memory and she's not fat

[ember river]

They saw themselves as divine because their god mommy told them so and they were magical long lived silk wizards

[robust wagon]

Well wait FS has the spikes on her shoulders

[modest coyote]

eva. but she basically cant live like a regular weaver shes kinda stuck on life support

[ember river]

But they are still rather powerless against a true higher being

[spring escarp]

ehy don't they catch phaelids and farm silk from them?

[modest coyote]

ok so maybe she just ate a lot

[pine pecan]

The Despised Child

[spring escarp]

Also smart

[viscid ridge]

Phaelids?

[upper narwhal]

Their technology its so good that its been used as a seal in temple of black egg

[terse warren]

That'd be an awful explanation

[ember river]

Everyone can be smart if they live for long enough

[spring escarp]

herrah BBW

[spring escarp]

Idk about that

[ember river]

Servitor Boran my beloved

[spring escarp]

boran?

[viscid ridge]

Seems like the pharloom weavers all have four spikes ( ex the memories and the spires) but the hallownest weavers dont

[ember river]

Bardoon is pretty smart

[ember river]

The ones that shoot a laser at you

[modest coyote]

how about this: as part of the prepartion for being a dreamer, she trained for maximum robustness and part of that was eating in prepartion, like how a marathon runner eats a lot of food

[spring escarp]

the robots?

[ember river]

Yes

[terse warren]

All weavers cond from Pharloom

[modest coyote]

there, a more satisfying explaination

[ember river]

The ones in mt fay

[spring escarp]

te

ye

[robust wagon]

Yeah, the locations of the spikes vary between individuals

[ebon silo]

Same scenario as

Why are vampires so rich because tell me if you live for thousands of years and still not rich just step into the sun

[spring escarp]

Intelligenc eis not acquirable

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, but i mean the ones we see in hallownest does not look the same as the ones who stayed in pharloom

[ember river]

What if she was wearing a really big fuzzy coat in case she got cold during her eternal sleep?

[spring escarp]

Knowledge is

[terse warren]

And she hasn't burned any of that fat after god knows how long?

There is no satisfying explanation as to why Herrah looks so weird

[ebon silo]

still

[spring escarp]

Albeit you could argue spiders aren't smart

[robust wagon]

She ate a lot for her hibernation

[spring escarp]

Just seem so for tje hallownest bugs

[viscid ridge]

Do they? If i remember correctly all the spire weavers have spikes. Ill go check

[ebon silo]

Nah spiders are pretty smart

[modest coyote]

i mean the reason i had like the pregnancy option is IRL spiders bellies do expand when pregnant significantly

[ember river]

Even as "smart" beings things like Bardoon and the Godseekers outdo them in knowing how the world works

[modest coyote]

but clearly thats not the case

[terse warren]

We see 1 Weaver in Hallownest and 2 in Pharloom, both of the Pharloom ones have the spikes in different spots (FS on shoulders and Widow on hips) they're just individual differences

[spring escarp]

Yeah and the snail shamans

[robust wagon]

Well widow has the spikes on her hips, but FS has them on her shoulders

[sinful nimbus]

I would not be surprised if Herrah was just redesigned and the old one isn't canon

[ember river]

I'd put shamans on their level

[pine pecan]

It is interesting how much the theme of "Motherhood" runs through Silksong (and Hollow Knight).

GMS and the Weavers
GMS and Lace
Hornet and her Three Mothers (Herrah, White Lady, Vespa)
Weavers and Eva
White Lady and the Vessels

[modest coyote]

i think herrah is jusgt herrah

[spring escarp]

Shamns solved GMS

they didn't

[modest coyote]

we dont know enough as to why she looks like the way she does

we can mmake explainations - but none have much evidence

[ember river]

Shamans also nearly destroyed the entire kingdom for good

[viscid ridge]

We also see all the hallownest weavers in hornets memory, and they all dont have spikes

[terse warren]

I mean even then the redesign is not looking at all like a weaver

They should've just went all in on the redesign imo

[modest coyote]

just speculation to fill in the gaps

look maybe herrah is just a bit unique

[viscid ridge]

Im also pretty sure FS also has spikes on her hips ill go check

[spring escarp]

shouldn't have happened tbh

[robust wagon]

Yeah she doesn't

[ember river]

But it did

[terse warren]

Widow does

[spring escarp]

why first sinner has no arms

[sinful nimbus]

Its got a similar body shape its just the horns (And unique character design elements like that aren't too uncommon)

[pine pecan]

Herrah could also be read as a lesser weaver from HK lore, unlike the former King Weaver. This is a possible explanation

[spring escarp]

Why herrah has

Why first sinner has a cracked head

[terse warren]

Ehhh ig but also the head isn't really ball shaped which is odd

[modest coyote]

issue is she was 100% weaver

whereas any king-weaver could be at most 50%

[spring escarp]

Lesser ≠ partial

[sinful nimbus]

I think we should throw hammers at TC

[terse warren]

[robust wagon]

Probably part of the punishment

[terse warren]

There is no king weaver

[pine pecan]

Yeah, I know... and the weavers had that thing where they couldn't reproduce without great effort or something

[spring escarp]

TC probably has their own secutiry staff now too bad

[modest coyote]

ik

[spring escarp]

Sje was bron cracked

[terse warren]

Why see her birth and she has that already

[robust wagon]

There was, only mentioned once in hk tho

[spring escarp]

If you pay attention

[vivid kernel]

they didnt torture ||sherma|| in ||whiteward|| be happy

[robust wagon]

Oh yeah nvm

[modest coyote]

we dont know the king was a weaver

[spring escarp]

can sherma die by negligence?

[viscid ridge]

Ok i checked, FS doesn't have spikes on her hips, but only on her shoulders. We also see memories that shows more weavers that looks like FS.

[terse warren]

The king of Deepnest wasn't a Weaver. All Weavers are girls

[modest coyote]

king of weavers does not mean the king was a weaver

[robust wagon]

Ig not

[ember river]

I think that wasn't meant to be the case

[modest coyote]

any more than the king of scotland must be scottish

[vivid kernel]

why do you speak of sins

[terse warren]

The king was king of Deepnest which has way more than weavers

[ember river]

This little retcon made weavers very hard to understand

[spring escarp]

like zote

[robust wagon]

Wait but then how can there be any 'pure' weavers if all weavers are female

[spring escarp]

directly made bt GMS

[pine pecan]

We know they had a "Midwife" in HK

[vivid kernel]

sesbian lex

[modest coyote]

all pure weavers are from the original ones

[robust wagon]

Oh yeah okay

[spring escarp]

hornet midwife

[modest coyote]

they tried making eva through clone magic but it didnt really work

[ember river]

That was a devout spider, not a weaver though

[grand star]

what’s the worst ending for pharloom

[ember river]

Twisted Bud

[spring escarp]

eva is kinda neat tho

[robust wagon]

Cursed child

[sinful nimbus]

Sherma is an idiot who does nothing to improve songclave in act 3

[spring escarp]

that one with the evil hornet

[viscid ridge]

King of deepnest was most likely a important figure, but didn't have anything to do with the weavers

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe whiteward could knock some sense into him

[vivid kernel]

yknow what penguins suck

[grand star]

we don’t really know anything about what actually spawned from that

[spring escarp]

He literally brings balms for the wounded

[modest coyote]

look. regardless of the design- we have to accept herrah was 100% weaver

[sinful nimbus]

Of course

[robust wagon]

Yeah he's mentioned to be 'of honoured caste' by a fungal lore tablet

[vivid kernel]

sherma is best

[ember river]

By the looks of it, he could have been a member of the Devout Spider species

[grand star]

but we do know that it turns all silk in pharloom to wood. that probably really sucks to deal with

[vivid kernel]

sherma cant be perfecter

[ember river]

Nothing good

[grand star]

so yeah i agree probably cursed child ending

[terse warren]

GMS slander is maddening but I can accept, Sherma slander however?

[upper narwhal]

Not sure how big is twisted bud, if it only affected the crandle, then weaver queen (Pharloom's dead judging from the mass amount of silk)

[viscid ridge]

Yeah thats why i say he was important

[spring escarp]

He brings meds for songclave

dumbass

[ember river]

Sherma does all he can immediately because he knows Hornet is busy fixing the underlying issue

[latent crag]

Someone here has already complete all steam achivements?

[spring escarp]

and becomes sonfclave president on the drop of a hat

[robust wagon]

Yes

[terse warren]

There's gullible written on the ceiling

Me when I fall for the most obvious ragebait of the past 7 years

[spring escarp]

what

evil

[modest coyote]

anyways my opinion on the weavers is the question of 'well how are there 1/8 weavers 1/4 weavers etc" is that as u become less weaver in proportion, the curse of difficulty-of-conception weakens,

[spring escarp]

pregnant hornet lets goooo

[modest coyote]

which explains the existence of more 1/8 weavers than say 1/2

[wary plover]

So what if we come back in the next game and sherma becomes a sort of arch bishop of pharloom

[modest coyote]

no hornet says she also suffers from it i think?

[viscid ridge]

But King of Deepnest seem to have just been rich or important, but not a higher being. Otherwise i think they would havr used the words Higher caste, and not noble caste

[terse warren]

How is that even a question they had kids that's how there are 4ths and halves and 8ths

[spring escarp]

no sh complains her boyfriends die

[ember river]

Definetely no higher being

[covert tusk]

The second sentinel is so fascinating because her purpose was to protect PILGRIMS, not choir or caste members, yet she’s garbed and adorned in Citadel iconography and colors. She’s found in the cogwork core and is seen attacking the haunted and protecting Songclave, and clearly has some resignations with attacking us before checking if we’re haunted. The Citadel isn’t good but did they truely build a machine of protection for the pilgrims? Or was she crafted by other hands

[vivid kernel]

cannibalism solves overpopulation and world hunger

[ember river]

They are very hard to kill

[sinful nimbus]

Bro doesn't even have the common courtesy to post up a donation request. Literally every good town leader does that 😭

[vivid kernel]

its a she?

[pine pecan]

This is the Theorized King of Deepnest

[modest coyote]

Hornet: "I know the curse well, Eva, for I am also its victim, and spawn of one who managed to overcome its limits."

[spring escarp]

neither

[wary plover]

Wasn't she built by the 12th?

[spring escarp]

It is a robot

[covert tusk]

It could be an it I don’t remember, but given how 90% of characters you find are women I just kinda assumed it’s a she

[modest coyote]

"i am also its victim"- hornet is also infertile (mostly)

[spring escarp]

Who is up to impregnanting hornet?

[terse warren]

No one puts up those requests in act 3 which is maddening

[vivid kernel]

he does
FA RI DU LA CI MA NET
DO NI PUA NA VO RI NET
PI NA SA MI MA NI CET
DA NA FON SI LOOOO BAN

[wary plover]

...

[ember river]

I mean, choir members are still considered pilgrims apparently.
However, the haunting kinda nullifies that status

[covert tusk]

She was? I assume the 12th architect

[upper narwhal]

not a good time to do that when there's void everywhere

[viscid ridge]

Yeah, probably. Maybe its his coffin. I cant see what else would have been important enough to have a seal placed around it

[modest coyote]

i assume its a physical thing where its smth messed up with ur body or organs

[spring escarp]

It is probably because they are uplifted beings

[wary plover]

No the 12th sherma

[ember river]

He donated his own riches to fix the town and worked for no payment

[spring escarp]

Meaning they didn't evolve to reproduce

[pine pecan]

Even has a crown. And 8 "legs"

[vivid kernel]

yes

[wary plover]

Who else

[modest coyote]

so? gms is probably infertile themself

[spring escarp]

They were fuvked up and twisted

[spring escarp]

Ithink it is a coincidence

[sinful nimbus]

bro fixed nothing

[ember river]

12th explicitly says she couldn't possibly build a cog heart, and the ones who could are long gone

[spring escarp]

or bitter revenge

[pine pecan]

Almost Certainly

[sinful nimbus]

Second Sentinel is the real goat of Songclave

[covert tusk]

“Hey guys we’re just like you! Except we get good clothes and money and golden halls and a cool robot knight and two robot dancers (don’t ask where we got them) and giant mechazords and—“

[spring escarp]

What happens of I don't fix second sentinel

[sinful nimbus]

I'm sorry are the pens voided too?

[spring escarp]

who ai the first sentinel

[wary plover]

Isn't gms a she? Cause she's grand mother silk not grand parent silk

[ember river]

Pilgrims become choir members once they ascend

[vivid kernel]

tbh second sentinel kinda sucks and if you say shermas bad ill sever you limbs

[pine pecan]

How did the Weavers put GMS to sleep?

[modest coyote]

anyways i have to imagine that based on the dialogue at most 1/4 weaver can reproduce normally

[spring escarp]

ye

[ember river]

Magic

[wary plover]

Gms?

[vivid kernel]

second sentinel is a clanker trust

[spring escarp]

Considering she doesnt pick 1/8 weavers

[pine pecan]

Grand Mother Silk

[terse warren]

I didn't see you giving any rosaries to Songclave either how about you fix it up yourself

[spring escarp]

Or below

Must be either too soon or too weak to matter

[wary plover]

Yes I'm saying maybe gms is the first sentinel

[modest coyote]

wrong

she does pick a 1/8 weaver

[sinful nimbus]

I CAN'T give rosaries to songclave because SOMEONE didn't put up a donation quest

I wonder who that is

[spring escarp]

1/16*

[viscid ridge]

He isn't a clanker, he is a Clanka

[spring escarp]

Sorry

[terse warren]

Looks to me like you aren't actually trying but ok

[modest coyote]

i agree that is probably where she draws the lne

[covert tusk]

The Knight and The King

[vivid kernel]

wireback
oilblood
tin skin
bolt brain
rust monkey

[upper narwhal]

even shakra have a hard time dealing with the void in bellhart, since Sherma can't fight, her only option is to keep an eye on the people (the resources are hard to get tho)

[vivid kernel]

yes

[terse warren]

Bellhart is gone to shit but I don't see you slandering the guy that runs it

[spring escarp]

Yeha like hornet is old, many generatiosn must ahve apssed

[wary plover]

Did you just assume sherma can't fight

[modest coyote]

i asume the less weaver you are, the shorter your lifespan (mostly)

[spring escarp]

steampunk so clokka*

[viscid ridge]

Mods, ban this Robocist

[spring escarp]

Clocker

[ember river]

Unless your other side is, say, a wyrm or something

[wary plover]

Hornet is not old, she's just grandmotherly

[modest coyote]

i tyhink 1/16 weaver aught to have closer to a regular lifespawn usually

[sinful nimbus]

Sherma can very easily set up a quest asking for funding to fix the town

[spring escarp]

Yeah hornet must be old as nails

[modest coyote]

shes literally called "old one"

[vivid kernel]

sherma went from bonebottom to citadel deathless
it took us 100s of deaths to reach citadel

[viscid ridge]

I can imagine Clokka being a buganese word ngl

[spring escarp]

Two civilizations crumbled

[vivid kernel]

no pls

[modest coyote]

ofc

[spring escarp]

And hornet is still around

[upper narwhal]

wait shoot, mb, Im not sure if she can fight or not, cuz I remember seeing her dealing dmg to the enemies in whiteward through the ding ding ding thing(or maybe Im seeing things wrong)

[wary plover]

I think old one is a reference to the old race the weavers

[sinful nimbus]

"Sherma isn't dumb guys he just can't write or contribute in any meaningful way"

[spring escarp]

Is hornet immortal?

[pine pecan]

I am still trying to work out the Timeline.

1. GMS Weavers the Pharlids
2. Weavers get Mommy Issues and put GMS to sleep?
3. ???
4. Profit (Weavers rule the citadel)

[modest coyote]

shes literally older than 99.9% of the bugs

[vivid kernel]

he went to marrow to citadel deathless he is stronk

[spring escarp]

Yeah she is nearl 20 years old!!!

[covert tusk]

Silk once Sherma finds her (she’s the one who’s been hurting his brothers and sisters in faith):

[sinful nimbus]

only cuz HORNET cleared out all the threats

[wary plover]

Again maybe the word you're looking for is senior, or grandmotherly or senile but old has certain connotations

[upper narwhal]

Im not sure about this, but I saw a comment said she passed the Last Judge even if u take the other route, sinners road (I dont have proof tho)

[vivid kernel]

sherma was always ahead of you

[sinful nimbus]

Lie

[pine pecan]

Or Sherma is literally Sinless (the judges leave him alone)

[spring escarp]

sickburn

[sinful nimbus]

Bro would've died if I never set up songclave

[vivid kernel]

SHE KILLED LAST JUDGE IN SOME RUNS

WHAT

[upper narwhal]

Wait what

[pine pecan]

No, the Last Judge will Let Sherma Past tho

[spring escarp]

Sherma is just too pure to kill bugs

[vivid kernel]

she either killed last judge or has no sins

[spring escarp]

Who si #1 sherma fan

[sinful nimbus]

He got everything handed to him on a silver platter?

[pine pecan]

Hornet probably

[vivid kernel]

i believe sherma is like doom guy

[sinful nimbus]

Sherma doesn't know real struggle

[upper narwhal]

Even the bugs in whiteward didnt target her

[wary plover]

How do we know sherma zidnt go through the mist

[vivid kernel]

theres 4 and 3 and 4 are sad now so i wont tell you

[wary plover]

Who is number 1

[vivid kernel]

brother

[sinful nimbus]

There are no sherma the man fans, only sherma the myth fans

[viscid ridge]

They do

[sinful nimbus]

They have gotten attached to an idea of what Sherma could be rather than what he is

[vivid kernel]

sherma is like doom guy trust

[spring escarp]

Sherma doesn't exist tho

[upper narwhal]

eh? didnt they aim for Hornet instead of her?

[spring escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/excited-fuego-gif-5901093615015223817

[wary plover]

Maybe the real sherma is the friends we made along the way?

[vivid kernel]

they were mistaken

[spring escarp]

What friends

[vivid kernel]

yes

[upper narwhal]

ohh i see

[vivid kernel]

they tried killing the strongest (sherma) last then they needed to kill the little one (hornet)

[spring escarp]

What we need to make the snare portal again

nevermind

remembered

[wary plover]

Three souls and a dream

[spring escarp]

Snare setter*

From weavernest atla

[wary plover]

I hate that we lose the item once it becomes void

[vivid kernel]

hornet is void

[spring escarp]

What part of the map is farthest from the center?

[wary plover]

No hornet is half weaver the night is void

[vivid kernel]

shes part pale king shes half void

[spring escarp]

I hope hollow knight 3 has a continuous map

No screen transitions

[vivid kernel]

half weaver half wyrm (void)

[wary plover]

Probably weave est cindril

[vivid kernel]

unless you are telling me white lady is void

[spring escarp]

????

Oh

is is on bilewater?

[vivid kernel]

wormways

[spring escarp]

ah

[wary plover]

No farfields

[vivid kernel]

cindril is wormways

[wary plover]

Which one is far fields

[vivid kernel]

right?

[spring escarp]

I only remeber atla

The weavernests are kinda forgetable imo

[vivid kernel]

wait cindrel is fields the sharpdart is wormways

[upper narwhal]

I forgot the name 😭

[spring escarp]

thrre is

[vivid kernel]

tf is the sharpdart one

[spring escarp]

weavernest karn i think

[vivid kernel]

YEAHHHHHH

[upper narwhal]

Far fields is the running one right?
Sharpdart is wormways

[wary plover]

I don't know but I've only been to three weavenests and I've basically finished the game

[spring escarp]

there are more

Fake fan

[wary plover]

Where's the last one?

[spring escarp]

Idk which you found

[pine pecan]

Here is a question: Weavers vs Architects.

[lean temple]

That's Kaarn

[spring escarp]

architects are just bots mad eby the brown grasshopper

In exchange for verdania

[wary plover]

That's not even a statement, or an interrogative.

[lean temple]

There are five

[upper narwhal]

weavers? (railgun with the silkshot)

[spring escarp]

interrogative?

[lean temple]

One in bilewater, and the last is in act 3

[pine pecan]

The Weavers were great at creating, but the Architects seem to have made most of the Cogworks

[spring escarp]

the abyss weavernest yes

[pine pecan]

Who built what

[spring escarp]

They probably worked for the weavers tjo

[wary plover]

Correct!

[spring escarp]

Affirmative!

[pine pecan]

I thought a lot of the Automatons were built imbued with Weaver Silk. This could Imply Weavers made them, but IDK. I guess you don't need to be a weaver to create artificial life.

[wary plover]

wtf is an affirmative, it's imperative, declarative or exclamatory

[spring escarp]

Exclamatory.

[pine pecan]

Yes

[lean temple]

The Architects served the Weavers
"Hornet: You see it true, Master. I bear the lineage of Weavers, along with other strands, equally strange.
A: Then on your r-r-request, Bug-Red, as directive demands, for Pharloom's first children, a-a-a-and our kingdom-eternal, I shal serve. I shall c-c-craft."

[spring escarp]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/affirmative

[wary plover]

Who is bug red

[spring escarp]

I like when I can correct foreigners in their own language, I do that in 4 different ones.

[upper narwhal]

hornet (red maiden)

[pine pecan]

Hornet

[spring escarp]

blood bug

whisp thicket

[pine pecan]

me when i spread misinformation /j

[spring escarp]

veridic!

[pine pecan]

Bug Red is Hornet

[spring escarp]

No itbis the target bug in the marrow

clearly

[pine pecan]

ah good point that bug is red

[spring escarp]

see

[wary plover]

If you do it in one more you'll be able to transcend the very nature of faux pas and become the ultimate autocorrect. Perhaps the third sentinel of grammar

[pine pecan]

Actually, its conchfly

[lean temple]

Weavers also set the standards for Architect craftwork
"12th A: And Architect's work owes much to the art of the f-f-first children. They set expert standard for the tools and talents of Pharloom eternal. If you desire, I can remake the tool, though my own mind-directives may produce u-u-u-unique result."

[spring escarp]

clearlyler

[wary plover]

Who calls her bug red

[spring escarp]

The raged conchfly one mroe specifically

[lean temple]

12th Architect

[wary plover]

Why is red suddenly hornets colour. It was never a thing in hollow knight

[spring escarp]

she was red in hollow knight tho

I am very smart

[cedar skiff]

i like that they made it a more bright red

theres so many moments where i went ahhh the red contrasts so well with the background

[spring escarp]

Her coat is drenched in blood

Hence the new color

[upper narwhal]

there is a music for her called red maiden (the one where she snaps someones neck)

[spring escarp]

Red memory too

You can pick different colors of the bellhome though

(Plot hole)

[wary plover]

Should have been called hk red song

[spring escarp]

What if she shows up blue in redsong dlc

[upper narwhal]

also there's her boss theme

[spring escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/sans-undertale-sans-undertale-realistic-wombo-gif-26970970

[vivid kernel]

HOLLOW KNIGHT PALE GREEN SONG

[wary plover]

That just makes the game seem like - blood bath though

[spring escarp]

bile water dlc ost

[vivid kernel]

lmao

[spring escarp]

All the map is now bilewater

[wary plover]

Yes!

I actually liked bilewater soo

[spring escarp]

Clearly we need more of it

Tbf I actually didn't mind bilewater

[cedar skiff]

the silksong ost is so good

but bilewater does not need allat

[spring escarp]

None of it stuck to my head like HK tho

so far...

[wary plover]

Which part of the game are you at

[pine pecan]

Is the Architect a construct built by the Weavers, or is it a living bug?

[spring escarp]

100% + extras

[wary plover]

A constructs living bug

[cedar skiff]

last dive is my favourite

[spring escarp]

I like cogwork core ost tho

lac ost and last dive ye

[cedar skiff]

i predict last dive is gonna be the basic answer like sealed vessel once more people finish the game because yeah its just so fucking good the entire moment

[spring escarp]

He literally has a machine heart

[upper narwhal]

GMS alarm

[spring escarp]

The ending is cinema

I literally shouted and raised my hands

When i saw the knight

[cedar skiff]

lost lace is also really good

[spring escarp]

It looked like the moonlanding

[cedar skiff]

i like the part that references sealed vessel

[wary plover]

Is there any other characters like sherma, groal, and the pale king?

[wary crescent]

Hornet doesn’t say “Shaw” and “Adino” in silksong anymore because she visibly aged and matured so she no longer uses racial slurs

[spring escarp]

What is the common aspect between these three???

[blissful harbor]

what is this grouping

[cedar skiff]

someone said shaw is her yelling at the knight specifically

[spring escarp]

Eediiiro*

[cedar skiff]

and i cant even argue it

[upper narwhal]

"Silk-spun child possesed by the void.
To quell the mother's rage, and see this kingdom saved, I will claim her back. This one.. the dark shall not take."
Fire quote 🔥 🔥

[wary plover]

Why is that important

[spring escarp]

How will I answer the question if I can't understand it

[wary plover]

What about the question is confusing

[spring escarp]

baited

Astute baiting there.

[wary plover]

They're all characters with no one like them no?

They're all unique.

[spring escarp]

Well yeah

[sand shore]

Can someone explain what Hornet wanted to achieve by killing GMS or my sealing her? Like the Act 2 and act 3 endings. I'm still a bit confused

[spring escarp]

Stop the haunting

Secure her own safety

Get power

depends

[wary plover]

She didn't want to kill her she wanted to confront her regarding what she was doing. When she went to the cradle and saw all the other cages she knew she had to fight her

[sand shore]

So it has nothing to do with her wanting to be in GMS spot, cause I remember some dialogue with random npcs being about taking power for herself etc

[wary plover]

Also she saw what the citadel did to the tribes around it, she saw that the sinners can't be absolved not even in death

Bro why would hornet ever want to be in her spot

[cedar skiff]

no that is the case in the first ending you get, at least partially, its a natural drive to dominate

[wary plover]

Who in this world would want to be in gms spot honestly

[cedar skiff]

she speaks about this if you go for the true ending

she sees no way to take her down that doesnt involve her naturally replacing her as the queen

thats when the shamans shaman all over the place and yeah

[spring escarp]

Hornet didn't fight GMS, her body simply did that.

[sand shore]

Is true ending the "normal" ending most people get?

[cedar skiff]

the true ending is act 3

[sand shore]

Ig I'll get back here once I complete act 3 lol, just unlocked it

[cedar skiff]

oh have fun its like the craziest part of the game

[sand shore]

Nice, is it around the same playtime as act 2?

[wary plover]

Everybody's is mean now

[upper narwhal]

Straight up lore bombing

[thorny crescent]

Someone slide me silksong frfr

[sand shore]

No sonder everyone says you should do everything in act 2 first

[cedar skiff]

i guess it just depends on whether you immediately go for the ending or go for % first

act 3 does add a lot more stuff to do

[upper narwhal]

More than that ig, cuz when I got the %, I only cleared like around 60%

[wary plover]

Wait really like what

[spring escarp]

everything

[cedar skiff]

well you get a ton more wishboard quests and unlock a whole new movement ability allowing you to backtrack a bunch

im trying to be spoiler vague here

[sand shore]

About that, I noticed you don't get to see completion% when you're finished with x ending, only playtime. Where can I see how much I've done % wise?

[upper narwhal]

with around 50h of gameplay (supposingly it was 60h but I reverted the save file to fight ||shakra||)

[upper narwhal]

no worries, u wont miss that in act 3

[cedar skiff]

youll get that item in act 3

[sand shore]

Ah ic

[spring escarp]

What are the bird like things on greymoor

[honest anvil]

craws

[craggy bison]

is this a real scene in the files or did the guy i'm watching make it up

[honest anvil]

it's in the files but non-canon

[craggy bison]

it looks real

[craggy bison]

okay that's cool

[honest anvil]

that looks like the abandoned ending, anyway. i assume that's a frame from it

[spring escarp]

What is a craw

[honest anvil]

some kind of bird-like bug. i have no idea what species it is supposed to resemble other than crow, which is, admittedly, not a bug

[craggy bison]

yeah, i know this scene isn't actually in the game but i wanted to know if it's a real thing in the files

[spring escarp]

Did they just add birds in silksong?

It bothers me

[honest anvil]

the fayforn is also some kind of bird thing
so. yes, maybe??? but they also might just be flying bugs. that. look like birds

[craggy bison]

"should've went for the head" -grandma silk in this scene

[honest anvil]

tbf slugs and snail are also not bugs so maybe birds are real in silksong, unlike real life

[craggy bison]

idk how this would even happen in the game if it wasn't cut

but most importantly

my theory about this ending was right let's go

[spring escarp]

What is this

[craggy bison]

abandoned ending, basically an unused ending

https://youtu.be/0VOUbW_gE-Q?si=34I6rNKbO1UGrwmd

[spring escarp]

They hug and become friends? : )

[craggy bison]

unfortunately no

grandma silk binds hornet and becomes very powerful

[honest anvil]

had a look through the craw entries in the hunter's journal
crawfather has "Did he recognise my part played in this land's void-strung state? If so, perhaps his judgment was not unfair. To these bugs I have brought much destruction." which suggests that the craws are bugs

[spring escarp]

hm

[true urchin]

So Hornet and Silk/Lace are related? (I’ve seen clips of these characters but wasn’t sure of the context.)

[spring escarp]

What if hornet became silk

[spring escarp]

sorta

Very indirectly

[craggy bison]

i mean technically grandma silk created the weavers

[spring escarp]

Like second order cousins

[honest anvil]

... no? i mean, they're cosmically related, because silk created the weavers, and hornet is a weaver, but she didn't birth the weavers, she just gave them power and changed their identity

[true urchin]

As so Silk is like a progenitor of the weavers as a whole.

[honest anvil]

there is no blood relation or anything. she is not the actual mother of the weavers

[spring escarp]

She also didn't birth lace

[honest anvil]

she created lace yeah

[craggy bison]

and phantom

[spring escarp]

Ao lace and phantom are kind of hornets uncles

[honest anvil]

not really no

[craggy bison]

no they're different species

[true urchin]

Ah, I was thinking Silk was something similar to the Pale King.

[spring escarp]

Nevermind

[honest anvil]

like. if you want to believe she's grandmother then yes but there's no blood relation

[craggy bison]

phantom and lace are made entirely of silk

[spring escarp]

irrelevant for what I was trying to say

[craggy bison]

they're not related either way

[spring escarp]

wait yes thet are kind of uncles

[craggy bison]

how

[spring escarp]

Ye, by creation lineage

Brothers of the weavers

[craggy bison]

you mean uh

sisters?

[honest anvil]

mother silk is more like an ex-adoptive grandmother, which would make lace and phantom ex-adoptive aunt and [redacted for phantom gender]

but like. emphasis on ex. and adoptive.

[spring escarp]

what you ahve in your pants?

Silk

[honest anvil]

the weavers unadopted silk

[craggy bison]

how the hell does this make them "uncles"

lace is prolly younger than hornet

[atomic dirge]

Did the citadel exist prior to Grand Mother Silk's arrival

[honest anvil]

the sibling of your mother is your uncle that is how the relationship charts

[spring escarp]

uncles are brothers of your parents

Herrah is a full weaver made by GMS

[honest anvil]

no

[outer trail]

Is there any connection between the sprintmaster in HK and in SS?

[craggy bison]

no, weavers made the citadel to contain silk