sk-lore

[cunning gust]

Wait in the first game our boy knight became a void entity
So why is there void in silksong? I mean how did the void even come to pharloom?

[lethal burrow]

The language of your question is unclear I would like you to put it slightly different

[maiden meteor]

One of rune harps basically says that after weaver passed their burden to Citadel bugs they went to die (probably to become ability sources)

[lethal burrow]

The void is very big, it didn't come to pharloom, it was always beneath it, in the abyss.

[maiden meteor]

void seems to span entire HK world

[left oyster]

PK sucked so hard at trying to be a bad parent that the only child he had to be distant from started to love him

[lethal burrow]

now that's a reach.

All we know is it's probably very big but I doubt it reaches absolutely everywhere

[cunning gust]

Ah.

[open dragon]

You think 1 rosary is like 1 dollar irl?

[left oyster]

PK WOULD have been a really good dad if he didn't need to you know

[open dragon]

Or is 1 rosary like 50 cents?

[lethal burrow]

it seems there was an amount of time where the citadel was functioning properly. When did the haunting begin in relation to grandmother's silk being put to sleep?

[left oyster]

damn 1 glass of nectar for 10 dollars

[shrewd hare]

Do some people in pharloom not attack hornet bcus she looks like herrah?

[open dragon]

Eh not too far off nowadays looks like

[lethal burrow]

no most of them probably don't even know about harrah the ones that don't attack her are just not possessed by the haunting and also aren't aligned with the citadel

Although the Weaver side is acknowledged by some characters

[shrewd hare]

Posesed? Haunting? Aligned with the citadel? Are those like act 2£3 things?

[maiden meteor]

btw are slab flies not haunted

[maiden meteor]

their behavior seems to be pretty natural

[lethal burrow]

yes, and no.
The more of the game you've been through the more things are clarified, but the haunting is still very much a thing in act one and so is the citadel as a thing that's mentioned

[open dragon]

Have we gotten any notable lore on this giant borb?

[timber pond]

You probably shouldnt be in this channel if you dont want spilers lol

[maiden meteor]

borb is all we need to know

[shrewd hare]

Yea i know my quest is to reach it, but idk anything about aligning, i think ive seen something about haunting in dialogus

[lethal burrow]

it's a cool bird thing, the Weavers thought it was very pog. it has a conversation with ||Mr. mushroom|| at some point.

[shrewd hare]

Ok

[maiden meteor]

weavers built whole giant structure dedicated to giant bird

[open dragon]

Any weavers worthy to make it to the top may pet the borb

[open dragon]

Oh! Wait so the birb can speak ?

[timber pond]

Fey Forn is a higher being 😎

[maiden meteor]

it’s above such earthly concepts

[lethal burrow]

Who freaking knows lol we only catch the conversation when ||Mr. mushroom|| is the one talking so

[maiden meteor]

birb is a birb and a birb only

[open dragon]

Said it before but god the lore surrounding Verdania is just...miserable, a lush, beautiful paradise lost to time and by the Citadel, they tried to perserve it but at the end they discontinued their efforts

[tropic arrow]

we also can't needolin the Fayforn, interestingly

[open dragon]

The less i said about the Green Prince and his lover, the better

[tropic arrow]

There's few things in Pharloom we can't needolin

[lethal burrow]

What why

[maiden meteor]

Citadel are the ones to blame at first place

[open dragon]

Sadness :')

[uncut holly]

We know quite a bit about the Green Prince, we know they had a monarchy where they gained the right to rule from hunting a Pale Stag

[open dragon]

God i want that place nuked

[uncut holly]

They also might have become immortal from it

Which is how they lived so long

[toxic quest]

wasnt bilewater also ruined by the citadel

[maiden meteor]

Verdania had yaoi monarchy

[lethal burrow]

yup the whole right side of the map got pretty screwed

[cyan herald]

Apareciate the thought

[open dragon]

Verdania and Bilewater just victims to the Citadel, sadge

[toxic quest]

so basically all of the gameplay elements that people complain about (except savage beastfly) are direct consequences of the citadels actions

[uncut holly]

Bile Water was presumeably ruined by the waste from the Citadel, but all the muck maggots are just the muck roaches that are in Sinners Road. So im not sure what exactly it was, might have been the Trappers that ruined it

Or maybe the smoke

[lethal burrow]

all the hate you have for bilewater is hate it's people share with you against the Citadel.

[uncut holly]

But they use steam to i dunno

[jovial trail]

Probably, there’s the exhaust organ

[lethal burrow]

Also petrified duct

[maiden meteor]

maybe it got fucked up because water became stale after citadel construction

[toxic quest]

also whats up with the fourth chorus and why is it there

[sterile knoll]

• The weavers lulled GMS to sleep, it seems
• Weavers spread out all over diff places, yolo ... herrah became queen of deepnest
• But GMS (awake or asleep?) kidnapping weavers via her minions, hornet beeing one of the kidnapped
• Architect-Conductor-Keeper trio keeping GMS asleep (knowingly or unknowingly)
• Did weavers orchestrated the archi-condu-keeper trio, or the trio are oblivious they are keeping GMS asleep
• do the pilgrims know they are praising GMS as their god, or they just want the act of pilgrimage, blind faith sort of

[open dragon]

Groal's tribe just filled with hatred for anyone and especially those of the Citadel

[foggy fractal]

10k rosaries 🤑 need more rosary !!!!!

[open dragon]

Cuz y'know, their home is a poisonous swamp

[toxic quest]

the pilgrims are drawn in by weaver propaganda so prob not

[maiden meteor]

Some higherups of citadel seems to be aware of gms but that’s it

[nimble ocean]

Wait guys, I have simple key what should I use it on?

[toxic quest]

was the last judge gate always locked and why did they use bells to do it

[nimble ocean]

Don’t want to waste it

[lethal burrow]

it seems like the Weaver's only fled when grandmother silk started to wake up.

or

Some of the weaver's fled because they didn't agree with what the other Weavers did with putting her to sleep.

[lethal burrow]

What options do you got?

[nimble ocean]

I might unlock green prince

[valid compass]

nah just use it on whatever you see

[jovial trail]

Be very wary of spoilers here

[lethal burrow]

He's awesome. Go for it.

[maiden meteor]

you had to visit all bell shrines to open gates

[nimble ocean]

Ik

[toxic quest]

i prefer the second interpretation, but honestly only because i want to keep my headcanon that hallownest weavers are overall good

[maiden meteor]

and then you got judged

[nimble ocean]

I got spoiled already

[lethal burrow]

what was the first sinners sin and why was she imprisoned? And who was she imprisoned by?

[maiden meteor]

I think it’s first

weavers at large seem to be assholes

[jovial trail]

Apostasy iirc

[toxic quest]

i mean the gate opening seems relatively permanent, how do they ensure that all pilgrims do the bell shrine thing?

[valid compass]

anyone knows what the statue in the underworks say? there's a statue which starts speaking when you play the needolin

[jovial trail]

I know it said it on the prison

[lethal burrow]

But towards what?

[maiden meteor]

close it after group walks in probably

[lethal burrow]

I don't know what you're talking about. I've never heard of that.

[open dragon]

When i first saw Phantom, i really thought she's gonna be a cool and mysterious character with ties to the void, but nah she loves playing the piano

[jovial trail]

Good question, maybe towards the religion they made up to keep GMS asleep?

[toxic quest]

ok so if u were a pilgrim, whats stopping u from camping in the blasted steps until someone else does all that work and just follow them in

[maiden meteor]

First Sinner questioned Weavers’ divine origin which might be the reason

[severe siren]

Im tired of waiting for silksong chat 🥀

[maiden meteor]

that probably would get you judged unworthy

[open dragon]

Is Phantom also some kind of a failed attempt by GMS to make her own child like Lace?

[jovial trail]

I mean I’d assume most of the work is just making it through

[lethal burrow]

it seems that the first sinner found out that they were just ascended pharlids, but it's my understanding that this was the information that made the Weaver's go against grandmother silk because they perceived her to be lying to them about them being divine children.

[valid compass]

there's this statue which really looks out of place with everything in the game. the only thing is looks similar to is the statue in the background of bone bottom camp

[sterile knoll]

I wanna believe the weavers started to flee when the First Sinner got locked up... Like each to their own hasta la vista baby,

But the Slab lore says even the jailers are sinners right, so who jailed the first sinner? The ugly flies? Hahaaaha

[neat crane]

She probably defied the Mother, knowing the true origin of the Weavers

[jovial trail]

Do you mean the confession robot?

[toxic quest]

ah that makes sense, how did they reset the bells tho

[maiden meteor]

Probably other weavers

idk who else would be able to

[valid compass]

no not that

[jovial trail]

Huh, was the first sinner not locked up by weavers then

[neat crane]

"Did the egg come before the hen, or did the hen come before the egg?" type of question. The first sinner might be the first Weaver sinner

[hidden crater]

It just exists for now

[cloud mesa]

question, what happened to the weavers that left hallownest to go back to pharloom?

[maiden meteor]

weavers were full of themselves so FS questioning their origins might’ve got them angry

[lethal burrow]

The first sinners animosity seems to be directly against grandmother silk

"...She called us daughters... Called us divine... She lied..."

[jovial trail]

Nothing good that’s for sure

[lethal burrow]

that was a thing?

[cloud mesa]

yeah

[maiden meteor]

Weaversong description says that

[jovial trail]

Yeah probably bc of the infection

[toxic quest]

they couldve gotten lost in the wastes for all we know

[wary nest]

does the obtainment of the everbloom confirm that snail shamans are void creatures?

[cloud mesa]

that’s why there’s no weavers left in deepnest cuz they left

[sterile knoll]

Oh so maybe the weavers are like divided, some are chaotic evil...some are just neutral or good, assuming gms is already asleep when first sinner got jailed up

[maiden meteor]

personally I think they might’ve perished during road or something

[jovial trail]

Maybe but it’s a hot topic

[valid compass]

has anyone found a statue which looks similar to this one? it starts speaking when you play the needolin and i think its in the underworks

[foggy fractal]

its in the vaults

[valid compass]

ohhh

[lethal burrow]

oh, yeah, probably nothing good..

[valid compass]

do you remember any of the dialogue?

[lethal burrow]

there are plenty in the marrow

[maiden meteor]

imo if Hallownest weavers made it to Pharloom we would know that

[foggy fractal]

heres all of it

Hark! ...ilgrim! You... climb... our eternal embrace... who stand stru... the threshold... our stark Citadel of stone... kno... true service may now commence.
Forget... your weary shell. Forgo... urge to still... arloom commands... give... greatest gift! Join our chor... Raise... shell... voice... and sing!

...ilgrim!... ast aside those many sinful hopes for rest ...d reward... remain pure... within our midst... sk for nothing!
See... Citadel's simple stone, bare an... dorned. See h...ain our garb, how sparse o... meal. Know that... excess is sin!
Stay vigil... ys, for tho... wretched pilgrims... dare relen... their base desi... Left unpunish... thin our pure chorus... eir seductive sin... pread like flame...

...Dear... grim... Dark it seems now... et these word... become your guide...
Hear our voice... Let it... your own! Give... of yourself... for great Pharloom, for... first-children who bequeath it to us... for our salva... sure to come!

Pilgrims... all...
Siblings... serving...
Devout... unwavering...
All... are equal...

[maiden meteor]

Cradle logs also seem to imply that by the time of Silksong there’s no pure-blooded weavers left

[jovial trail]

That’s true, considering how big of a deal a half-weaver was to GMS

[valid compass]

omg thank you so much

[cloud mesa]

i need a comic of hornet saying goodbye to the weavers when they leave her in hallownest

[wary nest]

is the first sinner not one?

[lethal burrow]

A citadel of stone? That seems much different from what we see in the game.... perhaps there was an older version of the citadel when grandmother silk was once awake

[maiden meteor]

First Sinner is dead

[neat crane]

The Weaver still in Hallownest?

Like, pretty surprised nothing was tied to that. A full Weaver would be kinda of a great deal, considering they went after 1/4 or even 1/8 Weavers

[maiden meteor]

even before fight

[maiden meteor]

probably died before Silksong

[lethal burrow]

Then again, it talks about the first children, which are the Weavers so never mind

[jovial trail]

Yeah I wonder if they planned something for that one weaver when Silksong was still a DLC

[toxic quest]

was this just like a revenge hitlist or smth

[jovial trail]

The story of silksong probably changed a bit throughout the 7 years of development

[neat crane]

A possibility, but would be fairly underwhelming

[cloud mesa]

we know like nothing about the weaver that never left+ the ones that did

[lethal burrow]

lace cannot sustain on her own forever. She needs some silk I'm pretty sure to continue existing and that's why they were finding these people from the other lands.

I could be wrong about that though

[toxic quest]

doesnt gms have infinite silk tho

[cloud mesa]

there’s spools of silk everywhere also

[toxic quest]

after all the silk hearts u get are basically hers right

[lethal burrow]

she's asleep

idk,

[toxic quest]

i thought hornets capture was ordered when she was awake

[wary nest]

did she go to whiteward?

[neat crane]

Ah for sure, the real question is: did they redcon anything?

[lethal burrow]

she's only awake at the final fight everything before that is her "waking up"

[toxic quest]

oh so shes still asleep but has regained some consciousness

[cloud mesa]

also if hornet grew up among weavers and they taught her what she knows, why didn’t they tell her anything about pharloom and her heritage?

[toxic quest]

nice pfp

[lethal burrow]

yeah, it's weird, she has like semi consciousness, but the extent of it is unclear whether a lot of it is subconscious or not

[mint stratus]

I assumed she was just very possessive of her children and their kin

[quick marten]

Maybe not she seemed like a bit of an outcast in the red memory

[neat crane]

Considering the dug up scrapped ending, might have been more than that.

[jovial trail]

Maybe the weavers in hallownest were distant descendants of the original ones and time made them lose a lot of knowledge about pharloom

[lethal burrow]

well, for part of her life, she was also raised by the white lady and vespa.

but lace only became created when grandmother silk was asleep and it can be assumed the same was for Phantom, seems like they only both started existing when grandmother started waking up, which is probably when the Weavers started leaving anyway if they didn't leave when she was originally put to sleep in the first place

[cloud mesa]

the vespa thing comes from a reddit comment that may or may not be canon right

[lethal burrow]

How far have you gotten in silk song?

[neat crane]

101% confirmed...?

[cloud mesa]

maybe i need to play more act 3….

[wary nest]

you do

[lethal burrow]

yeah, probably lol

[neat crane]

Yep

[cloud mesa]

i’m behind on hollow knight lore so sorry i’ll check my self out of this convo lmfao

[sudden vine]

is plasmium like how the infection was in hollow knight, though instead acting more like an actual disease than being transmitted through dreams?

[mint stratus]

Whatever is done with the weaver descendants, we don’t see any alive in game, maybe that could be a clue of sorts?

[neat crane]

Seems fairly more aggressive than in HK, might be part of the reason why using it was considered heresy

[lethal burrow]

in this house, we call it lifeblood

[sudden vine]

apologies

[sudden vine]

i see

[lethal burrow]

It acts sort of like the infection, but in the physical world and not really dream stuff as far as we know, it's a lot slower acting, and maybe even only happens with overdosing or whatever.

Seems like if theoretically, you laid off the usage for a bit, it would probably be fine as long as you didn't overdo it, but then again might influence you to overdo it.

Seems like when it gets bad though it gets bad

[neat crane]

The issue I would say is that we don't know what the alchemist did exactly. We know he did something, he had some funny machinery, but it kinda ends there

[sudden vine]

like its manageable in smaller doses, but it can spiral out of control quickly?

[lethal burrow]

well hornet says she saw something much the same in hallownest with the stuff one time so it seems like the experiments weren't the main cause

[lethal burrow]

yeah, I guess you could say that. Although maybe quickly is the wrong word, but it all depends.

[neat crane]

Hollow Knight: Zoteboat where we fight the lifeblood infection?

[sudden vine]

i guess we dont have enough knowledge to know for sure

[neat crane]

Probably referring to the Raediance pleague? Or just lifeblood existing also in Hallownest?

[lethal burrow]

It's definitely talking about life blood let me see if I can find it

[mint stratus]

Zote is the strongest higher being, so I can see him defeating the lifeblood infection as the intro cutscene to Zoteboat

[toxic quest]

i mean lifeblood/plasmium seems like sort of a parasite, it has useful properties to lure bugs in and have conduits to reproduce (like joni, for example)

[neat crane]

I think that quote might be from the pre-act 3 part. So the more normal part of the whole plasmium ordeal

[toxic quest]

wait, how is lace just allowed to go up into the cradle despite being technically opposed to the weavers/citadel?

[lethal burrow]

from an act 3 exclusive enemy
"In my home caves, when once this substance was allowed to flourish, I saw similar aberrations. This is wonder tainted strong with revulsion."

[tropic arrow]

Lace probably wasn't a thing while the Weavers were around

[mint stratus]

Favorite child privilege

[toxic quest]

so lace was created like during gms's "wakeup" period?

[tropic arrow]

She was made while Grand Mother Silk was sleeping, she is seemingly a recent development

May have been early or late haunting, perhaps

[neat crane]

Ah. That's interesting then

[lethal burrow]

yeah, she was created when grandmother started to wake up, which is presumably around the time the haunting began as well

[mint stratus]

Wasn’t it said by the snail priest in the citadel that she was ancient but made to act childish?

[lethal burrow]

it seems like this "wake up time" Probably lasted a while..

[tropic arrow]

Snail shaman says she is older than most in the Citadel, not all

never calls her ancient, I think.

And remember, we don't have dates, or specific time periods

[toxic quest]

by the time of the haunting the weavers have essentially died off, right? so why did gms trigger the haunting?

[tropic arrow]

As More Lore said, this wake up period seems to have lasted a while, and was a while ago

She is old, we just don't have dates to put to perspective, how old

[wary nest]

she predates the citadel correct?

[tropic arrow]

Lace? No?

[wary nest]

oh I thought you were talking about gms

[mint stratus]

Does anyone know if hornet is young by pale being standards, or if hallownests stasis has anything to do with her being seen as young/unaging?

[lethal burrow]

There's two prevailing theories on the Weaver's leaving.

1. • some of the weavers put grandmother silk to sleep and other Weavers didn't really like that so they just left, and these are the Weavers that left.
2. • The Weavers that put grandmother silk to sleep left because grandmother silk started to wake up, and these are the Weavers that left.

[lethal burrow]

hornet is only called Young by chakra

[tropic arrow]

she wants her eepy time to end

[lethal burrow]

The mask maker and the snail shamans even call hornet "Old One"

[tropic arrow]

which she is wrong about, as pointed out by Hornet herself

[wary nest]

I think that the weavers left as gms didn't like being put to sleep, so as she woke up the weavers fled to avoid death

[lethal burrow]

that's the take I tend to agree with as well.

[toxic quest]

shakra doesnt know hornet's backstory though right? i thought this comment was based off of appearance

[mint stratus]

The weavers also call her child so I assumed

[hot finch]

is hornet and the vessels short specifically because the pale king made himself short lmao

[lethal burrow]

Yeah, chakra is wrong

[tropic arrow]

Honestly I am somewhat confused on why Grand Mother Silk only wakes up when Hornet challenges her. If she could simply just... leave the cocoon whenever, she would

so what, exactly, made her get out, or rather, allowed it?

[neat crane]

Perhaps XD Also Hornet is short for Silksong standards, she is tall compared to the Knight

[lethal burrow]

They're saying child in the way of offspring, not in the way of age.

If your mother is 80 years old and you're like 50 and she calls you her child. She's not saying you're 10.

[tropic arrow]

Shakra is very tall

[toxic quest]

maybe hornet is like "summoning" her

[timber pond]

IN his Lesser form , he is short lol.

[hot finch]

I'm kinda assuming with the loss of the weavers she had to conserve silk in some way

[tropic arrow]

She be basically sitting down, with how much she squats to be level with Hornet

[wary nest]

probably cuz hornet is the first disturbance outside of the cocoon since (presumably) she was put to sleep

if someone yelled loudly in your ear while you were struggling to wake up you'd probably get up pretty quickly

[lethal burrow]

you felled lace and yelled at the cocoon.

[tropic arrow]

Yeah I doubt it's just that simple for her to wake up

[mint stratus]

I mean I’m not saying hornets young years wise, I mean the fact she’s outlived her past lovers and many bugs in hallownest seem to have various different experiences of the stages of the kingdom they lived through

[lethal burrow]

I wonder why lace didn't do that

[tropic arrow]

If it was that simple, she could just cause it herself by using the haunted bugs under her control

[wary nest]

normally, but i'd assume she was already nearly woken up, and that was the final push

[lethal burrow]

Again, it's not clear exactly how conscious grandmother silk is well asleep

[regal crow]

What's all the machinery in the ||citadel|| actually used for?

[lethal burrow]

Various things

[tropic arrow]

Conscious enough to make Phantom and Lace

[neat crane]

She did send orders to capture Hornet, she probably went "Ayo, hold on, that's the bug I wanted to capture"

[toxic quest]

prob various infrastructure

[wary nest]

do we know if they were specifically made after gms was put to sleep?

[regal crow]

That's a lot of heavy machinery to just make a clock tower tick

[quartz flicker]

you sure she didn't make them before she was put to sleep?

[tropic arrow]

It's a sleep she was forcefully put on and noted that she is desperate to wake. Again, she can't just leave it. There has to be some trigger or reason.

[tropic arrow]

...Better a child spun mad... than none...
...Better a child spun frail... than none...
...Better a child spun pure... than them...
...One to wish our waking...
...From our Silk... A child born loyal...

^^ silk heart cutscene after Lace

[lethal burrow]

maybe Phantom did not wish her waking, and thus was the flaw

[tropic arrow]

That wouldn't change my point

[neat crane]

The trigger is probably Hornet? Plus, the three melodies part perhaps? Perchance?

[lethal burrow]

I know I'm just thinking about if grandmother silk was asleep and only created Phantom and lace somewhat unconsciously then why was laser thing if Phantom existed

[tropic arrow]

Why would the melodies, something that those keeping her sleeping came up with, be the trigger to wake her?

That seems counterproductive

And she doesn't seem to be hunting Hornet for any special reason in particular, seems to be the same as any other Weaver, so?

[neat crane]

Well, you see, the melodies aren't really played, aren't them? They put her asleep, and then they can awaken her

[lethal burrow]

my bigger question is how conscious is grandmother silk when she's asleep vs half awake vs fully woken up

[tropic arrow]

The Citadel is designed to keep her sleeping. It would be extremely foolish to put in a mechanism to wake her.

[timber pond]

...One to wish our waking.. . MAbye the trigger is litteraly just someone askingher to wake up. I dont think there is anyone in the kingdom besides hornet that WANTS to go and wake her up.

[regal crow]

What happened to the elevator in ||underworks||? Serious question

[tropic arrow]

And the melodies aren't the cause. She doesn't wake up after the melodies.

She wakes up when Hornet challenges her, for whatever reason

[tropic arrow]

Again, no way it's that simple

[lethal burrow]

lace doesn't like her mother for what reasons again

[neat crane]

When the alarm rings, you are up from bed in 0.01 microseconds?

[lethal burrow]

I feel like this waking up versus awoken thing is going to become the new purity discussion and I'm scared

[timber pond]

Litteraly no one else can get up there lol

[tropic arrow]

Sure, but she wakes up when Hornet challenges her specifically

[mint stratus]

Eva was an attempt at making a divine weaver, no?

There seems talk about lying about being divine by the weaver in the slab

[tropic arrow]

We literally have needolin vision of Widow in the Cradle.

[toxic quest]

i think tk being impure is like, heavily implied

[tropic arrow]

If it were that simple, she would have woken her up

[regal crow]

I thought at first it was a bug, until the lever suddenly fell off and I had that "oh, fml" moment

[lethal burrow]

Do not talk about it it will go nowhere

[toxic quest]

welp, we're discussing a new game now 😂

[neat crane]

1. Cool moment
2. I don't see how that would go against the theory of the melodies being the key. I doubt they literally just are an elevator key

[sinful nimbus]

Bro thinks he's the arbiter of meaningful conversations 😭

[neat crane]

Plus the music does get pretty damn loud

[tropic arrow]

1. doesn't change or attack my point any way
2. again, why would the people who designed the citadel to keep her sleeping, put in a mechanism to wake her? It just doesn't make any logical sense

Everyone ruling it is pretty unanimous on keeping her sleeping

[lethal burrow]

you're free to discuss purity all you want but in the past... it has been fruitless circles.

But fine, Ahem

"was the hollow Knight ever pure?"

[neat crane]

Why did the Pale King make so that the black egg was openable?

[mint stratus]

Is hornet void

[tropic arrow]

And seeing as Widow was in the cradle, at some point, saying this:
Our mother... true...
Our light divine...
Wake... Wake... Wake...
Glory to you...
It's clear that just going "hey please wake up" isn't enough

[foggy fractal]

is the knight void ?

[wary nest]

well obviously they would be an elevator key since that elevator leads to the most important area of the whole citadel, so they're gonna make it difficult

[tropic arrow]

He didn't. It was sealed by the Dreamers, if you recall.

[lethal burrow]

I think he tried his best to do the opposite to be honest

[sinful nimbus]

no just because they're black doesn't mean they're void

[lethal burrow]

Just because it could be opened, doesn't mean it was openable by intention

[neat crane]

And by getting rid of the dreamers you could open it....

[foggy fractal]

oh my bad

[quartz flicker]

. . . yeah, Team Cherry?

[sinful nimbus]

That's not making it openable by design

[tropic arrow]

Which is intended to never happen

[wary nest]

stuff like that needs to be openable incase something goes wrong (like what happened in the game) but he still made it really difficult to open as otherwise infected could get in

[timber pond]

Maybe it really is just hornets Silk hearts and Her proximity that does it.

[lethal burrow]

The dreamers that can only be destroyed properly with the dream nail

[tropic arrow]

Hornet's proximity is weird, but really the only plausible explanation at this point

[sinful nimbus]

"Why did they make this wall openable"
"It isn't"
"Well you can blow a hole open in it with dynamite"

[neat crane]

Sure, but still more than technically possible. Same as the Citadel, not easy, but possible.

[lethal burrow]

why do we get a silk heart after defeating the bell beast

[wary nest]

it's probably cuz of the combination of hornet's silk and her being directly related to a higher being

[tropic arrow]

that's different from making a mechanism to wake her up, which is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the goal here

[lethal burrow]

of course it's possible, but that doesn't mean it was ever intended. I doubt the pail king ever planned for it to be opened or that this was some sort of fallback scenario.

[tropic arrow]

It's extremely counterproductive

It's like making a lock and then putting the key outside, hanging on the lock

[timber pond]

Oh no💀 City of steel HARDEER THAN STEEL SOUL?????

[toxic quest]

what would happen if you just blew up the dreamers tho?

i mean,

1. the seals break (then what's the point of the dreamer thing in the first place)
2. the seals remain and now the physical bodies are inacessible so you cant use them as an entry point to the dream (why didn't they do that then?)

[tropic arrow]

What's the point of the lock????

[mint stratus]

Lace is referred to as a “pale child” and weaver tend to wear pure white masks that could be considered as an attempt to make themselves more “pale”

The issues with both Lace and Eva as attempts at divinity seems to be their frailty

[toxic quest]

i think the cradle was intentionally made accessible pretty much only to weavers in order to have a way to keep gms asleep in case smth goes wrong

[tropic arrow]

I don't think Grand Mother Silk made Lace with any intention of making a higher being, like Eva seemingly was

[neat crane]

He surely didn't have much of a plan, apparently, but I think that leaving possibilites open for plan Bs is smart future proofing

[timber pond]

Hornet Is recovering her power it seems.

[lethal burrow]

They do have seals on them if you try to attack them with your nail

[wary nest]

there needed to be access to the black egg, although nearly impossible access

the access is necessary incase something fails, but if it is too easy than any infected bug can just get in and release the infection

[lethal burrow]

but like it just shows up though

[uncut holly]

Im pretty sure Lace is Grand Mother Silks surrogate kid after the Weavers betrayed them.

[terse warren]

my blind ass never realized this mf is a Pinstress

[uncut holly]

GMS might have been very long in control, or somehow Lace has been alive for a long time

Yep their the Pinstress who stopped hiding

[sinful nimbus]

It'd be 1 since killing the dreamers is how you break the seals, and you can't blow them up because they are physically protected by white seals

[mint stratus]

This is news to me also

[uncut holly]

Citadel came in and destroyed their place

[lethal burrow]

access was not necessary because the plan was for it not to fail.

This was a shot in the dark last ditch effort, there was no "in case it fails" this was it. Either it works or they were all fucked.

[toxic quest]

oh wait you're right i forgot about that

[foggy fractal]

same
we might be syupid

😔

[wary nest]

I mean obviously the plan was for it to not fail
that's kinda the point of most plans

[sinful nimbus]

Pinstress weakest clan in the HK universe?

[tropic arrow]

yeah, but the timeline on when she was made is muddy. It could have been any time from after being put to sleep to allll the way to when the Haunting first began

[terse warren]

I got to her, used Needolin, she said "sisters and I saw the resemblance and pin and it clicked

[sinful nimbus]

Citadel replicated their techniques but better 😭 🙏

[wary nest]

moss guys are pretty weak

[terse warren]

Second Sentinel solos Pinstress any day of the week

[lethal burrow]

You say that like the haunting predates her being put to sleep

[sinful nimbus]

That's like if I made a sly robot and it beat sly

[tropic arrow]

that sentence is backwards, yes, my bad

You get what I mean though

[neat crane]

But then... it wasn't really that way (Yk, the Knight does exist). If you can throw in a plan B option, you should always do it. The Pale King was fairly dumb but not exactly a fool

[lethal burrow]

I don't think the knight was planned

[tropic arrow]

Idk if Second Sentinel beats Fourth Chorus, while Seamstress did, or is implied to have

[mint stratus]

Does anyone know what grandmother silk even is besides a higher being?

Like the white lady is a pale root, the pale king a wyrm, unn is a slug, the radiance is a moth

What is she?

[tropic arrow]

spider

[neat crane]

I agree, but it shows how a plan B, even if not preplanned, existed.

[sinful nimbus]

what they lack for in strength they make up for in prolificacy

[tropic arrow]

A plan, by the very meaning of the word, implies you meant for it to happen

[mint stratus]

That’s on me, should’ve assumed

[lethal burrow]

if it's not preplanned, it's not a plan that's just a thing that happened at that point

[terse warren]

i think second sentinel smokes Chorus

[lethal burrow]

As much as spider as the radiance is a moth

[wary nest]

I do not think that specifically the knight was planned, but having tons of backup knights in case the hollow knight failed might have been part of it (although maybe not since the abyss is sealed)

[toxic quest]

to the king having vessels alive and out of the abyss was a far bigger risk than worth

[neat crane]

Fair enough, true, I meant an alternative solution to the problem

[tropic arrow]

I mean yeah, that's a given, TC plays loose with their bug inspirations

Spiders do not, after all, have a floaty crown, or silk "hair" that is hundreds or maybe thousands of times longer than their bodies

Or two pins melded together for legs

[toxic quest]

yeah, it savage beastflies were faithfully based of real flies we'd all be fucked in the real world

[covert tusk]

Can I just say, if Lace was truly a child (I’m sorry it’s still really fucking hard to believe that), it really takes away from the impact of her betrayal? Like why should I care about some kid throwing a temper tantrum against their mom cuz she won’t pay attention? I find it much more impactful if this is a woman who’s forced to fit that role, who isn’t allowed to change or have agency or any will under her mother. No matter how much she may attempt to grow, she’s forever bound under Silk’s thumb. It’s why her being artificial is important, she LITERALLY isn’t allowed to change. She’s been stuck as a “child” and never allowed to grow, which just made her downright nihilistic and callous, which is why Hornet changing her and telling her, no matter HOW she came to be, her life matters, it helps her break out the shell and role designed by Silk. SHE SAVES HORNET BECAUSE SHE ISNT JUST THE CHILD OF THE GRAND MOTHER, SHES LACE AS AN INDIVIDUAL. SHES A PERSON. She isn’t constricted by this facade forced upon her, like that of Phantom or Widow, she gets to develop, and it’s why it matters that we get to save her, so she may continue to live as her own person, and not have to die because her Mother won’t let her go

[tropic arrow]

She is a child in mind, not actual age

[covert tusk]

I feel like so much of her personhood is stripped of she really, truly just was exactly what Silk created her to be

[foggy fractal]

TC making the second sentinel fight in a small ass room was a crime
there was a pretty spacious room near it too smh

[wary nest]

a child rebelling against their parents is pretty symbolic

[tropic arrow]

But also, I feel like "her mom won't pay attention", downplays the neglect she went through

You don't have as much self loathing as Lace does simply because your parent doesn't pay attention to you

[wary nest]

^

[covert tusk]

True true
Idk it’s not really that big of a deal, it just really is the one complaint I have story wise about Silksong

[tropic arrow]

No one is saying she isn't an individual or a person that can't change

But she does, quite explicitly, have the mind of a child, she was made that way, seemingly

[covert tusk]

Like if she was referred to as daughter like Hornet I feel like this wouldn’t be as bad to me idk

[tropic arrow]

That she can change out of it, only shows she is not just an automaton

Grand Mother Silk is the one who refers to her as a child, in the only lines we get from her. The only one who calls Lace daughter, is herself

[foggy fractal]

imagine we get a fight with all three sisters in a dlc shit would be hype

[wary nest]

that's part of her character development
even though she was created with the mind to be the "perfect child," through the efforts of hornet and herself, she develops and breaks free of gms's control and rebels

[tropic arrow]

Sisters of Pins?

That sounded better in my head

[wary nest]

no the pinstress fight sucked
it would be dope if the seamstress was diff from the other two and used cloth to fight like how the painter was diff from the other 2 (I forget the nailmaster names from hk)

[tropic arrow]

Nah, Pinstress was a good fight

[sinful nimbus]

Lacenet is over pack it up 💔

She is both a child and has agency idk what you're yapping about

[covert tusk]

Bro she was a primal aspid with a charge attack im sorry 😭

Get back on the ground and fight me bro why are you running so much

[foggy fractal]

yeah she had like three attacks

[uncut holly]

Ive noticed that people seem to mostly hate those magma slugs in Deep Docks as the new Primal Aspids

[covert tusk]

OH MY GOD THEY SUCKED SO MUCH

[tropic arrow]

The giant maga slugs are one of the few normal enemies that made me rage

[uncut holly]

Although ive also seen that people consider alot of enemies as Primal Aspid like I think thats just due to the harder enemies.

[tropic arrow]

Lavalarga or something

[wise beacon]

They're annoying but you only have to encouter them a few times

[uncut holly]

The world seems unified on hatered of the magma slugs

I mean you dont really see many enemies outside of their zone

[wary nest]

why is every higher being in both games so bad at making plans
besides maybe nightmare heart, but that still can be thwarted

[uncut holly]

besides pilgrims and the normal critters

[tropic arrow]

you say that like there is a lot of them in both games, while Silksong has 1 higher being that we know of

[uncut holly]

I mean Nightmare Heart is still ok even if you go through with it or not, thats why Grimm doesnt really care what you choose. Or they question which path you will take

[wise beacon]

Yeah but there's a door to skip the slug section on the way to deep docks for when you come back

[wary nest]

I mean yeah there's not that many, but every single on that's made a plan has failed or can fail easily

[foggy fractal]

time to push the Hornet and Shakra agenda

[sinful nimbus]

Its just not the same

Hornet x Eva is where its at

[uncut holly]

People really hate the Craws, and they hate the Magma Slugs

[wise beacon]

I mean idk how you plan for a wrym to come in and fuck everything up. Unn and Radiance just didn't really have a choice nor the power of foresight as far as we know

[tropic arrow]

Eh the craws are fine

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/soccer-football-anime-blue-lock-isagi-yoichi-gif-27440248

[uncut holly]

Craws become obselete though

[tropic arrow]

the flying guy's ranged attacks are easy to parry, and easier to dodge than aspid

now the flies in putrified ducts, on the other hand....

[wise beacon]

And PK mostly succeeded only until the Radiance came back

[foggy fractal]

sad that we never got to see what Eva actually looked like

[uncut holly]

Those guys also suck, you can kill them with the barnacles though

[wise beacon]

I just don't like the one with throwing pins

[lucid pasture]

because they are the enemies

[uncut holly]

The Citadel flying swords person is also really bad, their the placement for BRAVAHHH!

[toxic quest]

they're annoying for how early in the game they are

[uncut holly]

They even say Bravah when they die

[tropic arrow]

I found them pretty easy, and fun to fight

[wary nest]

is the pale king an enemy?

[tropic arrow]

better than BRAVAAAA

[toxic quest]

them bouncing around like that in the air makes them hard to hit

[wise beacon]

Clawline + pogo simulator

[tropic arrow]

I wonder if we will get more memory zones for DLC

[wise beacon]

Idk why but i put off using clawline for a really long time. Makes combat more fun

[uncut holly]

Theres those Cogwork shield guys, you dont see them much at all though

[tropic arrow]

It's a very good tool for DLC areas. Just make them accessible via memory.

[wise beacon]

Like what 2 or 3 rooms with then

[jovial trail]

I think that’s how we’ll get the godhome equivalent

[uncut holly]

Yeah they arent seen enough, they do block everything though

[tropic arrow]

almost certainly

they could even really just do Godhome with it

[toxic quest]

whats the lore behind elegy of the deep?

[tropic arrow]

I just doubt they'll do Godhome again

[wise beacon]

Yeah i'd be surprised if elegy never had another use

[tropic arrow]

Weaver technique, taught by the Shamans

[sinful nimbus]

Needolin spell that allows her to enter memories

[toxic quest]

well hopefully they do an equivalent

[wise beacon]

Give first sinner refight please

[toxic quest]

i mean, yeah, but do we have any info on how it actually works?

[tropic arrow]

an equivalent, absolutely. What I meant was that I doubt they'll re-use godhome itself

[wary nest]

I noticed that after you get the everbloom, striking the empty snail shells causes white particles to come off
is that because of the everbloom, soul, or silk?

[sinful nimbus]

Silk is a medium for soul and soul can apparently do that

[coral wren]

Is the red memory bit time travel

[sinful nimbus]

Its just a memory

[jovial trail]

I wonder if memories have something to do with essence

[sinful nimbus]

Theyre made of essence

[jovial trail]

That’s what I’d assume but it never directly said

[wary nest]

no, it's looking through your own memory
like void soul in hk

[coral wren]

How does hornet get the flower out of it

[jovial trail]

The spell did that

[tropic arrow]

Same way you get hearts from memories

[wary nest]

magic

[tropic arrow]

And I mean

the White Lady gives it to you, seemingly

Not a memory construct, seemingly the actual living one

[sinful nimbus]

Well when Seer peers into the essence you collected with the dream nail she describes what she sees as memories

[tropic arrow]

Makes sense she is aware of memories, given her awareness of dreams

[covert tusk]

Ok wait ignore my little tangent it just hit me Phantom is so fucking sad dude she has the same issues as Lace but has the duty to keep pilgrims out of the citadel from the exhaust pipe, is secluded in the mist where no one really can enter, and again any company she (is if they? Idk Phantom’s pronouns) meets must die to the longpin. Neglect from silk, Pressure from The Citadel, and all while having to comfort Lace too if that one needolin interaction is anything

[sinful nimbus]

Why Phantom is the goat fr

[scenic shuttle]

Sherma is the goat

[jovial trail]

I thought hornet took the phisycal hearts from the bugs after reanimating their memories and that was why the NPCs are dead after you kill them in the memory

[scenic shuttle]

Yeah at least the ones that have living npcs

[wise beacon]

1

[wary nest]

what about the statue in shellwood

[scenic shuttle]

and the body of the crust king in the coral tower

[wise beacon]

You said living so i was going off of that

[covert tusk]

all the lore and then they’re fought once and die to a parry 😭

[jovial trail]

Yeah that one it’s weird, but I thought it was a tomb so maybe Nyleth was below it?

[wary nest]

I felt like that one was on the verge of death as it turns into coral and crumbles like other coral enemies

[scenic shuttle]

Yeah I know I was mentioning how someone mentioned the statue and I added the third and final one to show only one was still alive

[wise beacon]

Mb

[scenic shuttle]

It was literally a skeleton my guy

[jovial trail]

He dies exactly like how the enemies die in the memory tho

I feel like that’s significant

[wise beacon]

Load bearing heart

[scenic shuttle]

I get that but he was a skeleton like literally and yeah I guess the heart held its body together

[wise beacon]

I mean if I start yanking shit outta a skeleton it might fall apart too

[scenic shuttle]

Exactly

[wary nest]

why does gms scream when lost lace screams?

[jovial trail]

When you destroy the frozen warriors beside they don’t turn into coral they just crumble tho

[scenic shuttle]

Because she is crying out for her daughter

[wary nest]

does gms really give a shit
and why does she only do it when lost lace screams

[jovial trail]

Yeah that’s why she was holding on

[wise beacon]

Literally helps you out in act 3:

[scenic shuttle]

Yes since you know she helps you save lace at the end

[wise beacon]

Literally in the thing you were replying to

[scenic shuttle]

What you guys think the story is with the nameless town

[wise beacon]

My only thing about that is that he can't be manipulated by the needoline and that he has magic earth bending powers so it could just be related to that

Like maybe his power maintained his form until its source was removed or something

[covert tusk]

Honestly? I don’t think they were too important, but rather a showing of how no matter how far you tried, the Citadel could and would reach you, drain all it could out of you, and then not even give you the dignity of a tombstone
It’s a nameless town for a reason

[scenic shuttle]

It’s not effected by the silk or void

[covert tusk]

But maybe I’m just being uncreative

[covert tusk]

Doesn’t the needolin dialogue say like, people were going down below due to the weaver source??

[scenic shuttle]

It’s on the surface but the enemies have no silk stuff

And it’s above the cradle

[jovial trail]

I think it’s to show that there were settlements in pharloom before the citadel and the weavers lured bugs from those places to create the citadel

[tropic arrow]

the needolin shows Weavers luring people down to the Citadel, pretty sure

[scenic shuttle]

Yes probably

[jovial trail]

Is it just me or does the silk ghost from the lost village look like one of the cut sea snails?

[scenic shuttle]

Silk ghost? Thats only in the mist

[jovial trail]

Well the thing that appears with the needolin

[scenic shuttle]

Oh idk I haven’t actually gotten all the way through there because I am on a steam deck and waiting to get back to my computer before attempting to go all the way up

[jovial trail]

Yeah the platforming is tough

[scenic shuttle]

Those fucking worms man

They look like the goobers from the quirel prequel comic

How do yall think grand mother silk gained power? Since she is clearly not a weaver

[jovial trail]

Maybe she was wyrm

And the cacoon is the metamorphosis

[scenic shuttle]

That’s possible but there is no corpse of a wyrm anywhere

[lucid pasture]

she was born like that

idk how tho we dont know how existence begind

[scenic shuttle]

I am saying how she took over pharloom from the weavers

Maybe she took power after the weavers left for hallownest and then they came back after that?

[jovial trail]

There isn’t anything in the game hinting at the fact that she was a wyrm, but I think the idea that her wyrm form was like a silkgrub that then went into a cacoon is pretty cool

[lucid pasture]

i think it was a slowly proccess they simply couldnt keep her sleepin forever

without any action

[jovial trail]

Was GMS awake before creating the weavers?

[lucid pasture]

yes

[scenic shuttle]

I think the weavers were there already

[lucid pasture]

i mean probablt

[lucid pasture]

they were evolved from pharlids by Silk, look at first sinner cutscene again

[scenic shuttle]

True but then they had free will and left pharloom

[jovial trail]

I just wonder how the weavers would put her to sleep, like the song keep her asleep but forcing her into a dream seems harder

[scenic shuttle]

To hallownest and at least one survived to come back

[lucid pasture]

ah lo you meant like that

[scenic shuttle]

Like what happened while they were gone? Or did not all of them leave since it said they were fleeing a great danger when they came to hallownest

[lucid pasture]

id say it had something to do with songs and they made the pilgrims do chorals and shit but idk how

[scenic shuttle]

Maybe they fled grand mother silk?

[jovial trail]

Most likely

[lucid pasture]

not all left for hallownest definitely

[scenic shuttle]

And at least one survived the first games events because of the one outside the weaver nest

[jovial trail]

They only came back when hallownest became inhabitable bc of the infection

[toxic quest]

is dying in silksong a canon mechanic?

[scenic shuttle]

Probably not

Just like the first game

[jovial trail]

Steel soul is the canon experience

[scenic shuttle]

Hornet has ptsd

[lucid pasture]

my theory is that some weavers left citadel after they noticed citadel wouldnt actuallt keep holding silk up forever, so they left it to the conductors and shit
not necessarily this was the only moment weavers left citadel tho like maybe hallownest weavers left even before that but idk

[scenic shuttle]

I think that the weavers fled grand mother silk when she started going into that cocoon thing and possessing bugs and then the survivor from the first game fled back and probably died somewhere

[jovial trail]

The mass exodus was definitely when they realized GMS was waking up no matter what but maybe the hallownest weaver left just to see the world and all

[lucid pasture]

nah that was after the conductors on leadership

[scenic shuttle]

Is it cannon that she was asleep?

I don’t remember ever hearing that

[lucid pasture]

yes i think so. its kinda hidden through some dialogues tho yeah, i also didnt notice it by myself

[scenic shuttle]

And isn’t it implied she wanted the people to bring hornet to her so she could take her silk

[lucid pasture]

she controlled people with haunting even without being FULLY awake

[scenic shuttle]

The silk haunts you

[toxic quest]

why else, then? honestly it doesnt feel like hornet was specifically target it feels more like she was collecting weaverspawn

[scenic shuttle]

She was the only weaverspawm left

Also wait

[foggy fractal]

what if Hornet leaves Pharloom after the events of the game who we thinking is gonna be taking control over Pharloom
bets on Sherma

[scenic shuttle]

How the fuck is she a weaver is herrah a weaver??

[lucid pasture]

yes

she is

[scenic shuttle]

But she looks completely different

[toxic quest]

why would she want to collect the weavers other than their silk, it doesnt seem like revenge cuz otherwise she could just kill them

[toxic quest]

she takes after her dad more

[lucid pasture]

yeah we dont know why

[scenic shuttle]

I am talking about herrah

[jovial trail]

Probably no one and it becomes a lot of small settlements…

no actually yeah sherma becomes the king that’s how it’s meant to be

[scenic shuttle]

Herrah does not look like a weaver at all

Her entire design is different

[foggy fractal]

Sherma is gonna climb the politcal ladder just like he climbed to the Citadel LOWKEY.

[jovial trail]

Silksong breaks if we herah isn’t a weaver so I think we have to assume she’s a big weaver

[lucid pasture]

she has weaver eyes at least

[scenic shuttle]

True I guess that is fair but it’s still weird how different she is maybe that’s why she is called herrah the beast? Cause she would be considered like a mutation by the weavers like Eva is

[lucid pasture]

(Whcih are spidee eyes in general but whatever)

[lucid pasture]

i think she was made as a normal pure 100% weaver otherwise hornet wouldnt be called half weaver and shit. BUT yeah i think the reason they call her herrah the beast probably means smth about her appearence

[scenic shuttle]

I think she is a mutated weaver and since we can see weavers do reproduce and are not solely created by the weaverlings and the infected weaverlings in the first game

[lucid pasture]

weavers can reproduce bc we see many partial weavers in those cages in the cradle, its just hard for whatever reason

they cant reproduce between themselves tho

bc well they are all women

[scenic shuttle]

They are??

[neat sandal]

people even call GMS or hornet is the pale beast
beast probably mean someone ruthless, action first talk later

[scenic shuttle]

What are you talking about

[lucid pasture]

yes

[sinful nimbus]

"Sisters, spiders"

[scenic shuttle]

Ah alright

[sinful nimbus]

Every captured weaver is also only partially one

[scenic shuttle]

Still weird

[foggy fractal]

hey guys

[scenic shuttle]

Hallo

Would a steel soul run in silksong be called SSSS

Silksong steel soul

Also yall think Shakras people are from somewhere else? Since it’s only 2 of them we ever see being her and her mentor

[lucid pasture]

idk but i want to call it that now its funny

[scenic shuttle]

Yes it is

[foggy fractal]

what brightness level did y

[lucid pasture]

imo yes they probably come from somewhere else than pharloom

[foggy fractal]

'all play silksong on

[scenic shuttle]

Base brightness

[scenic shuttle]

Fair also why do the alchemist people in worm ways look so much more different than everyone else and do yall think trobbio was effected by the silk? Cause he seemed fully sentient

[lucid pasture]

i think trobbio wasn't influenced by silk he was just insane by the situation lol

[scenic shuttle]

Or just really really dramatic (tormented trobbio out there with pure vessel attacks)

[lucid pasture]

idk for the alchemist question

[foggy fractal]

sounds like a Pale Lurker situation
they're both just crazy by default lmao

[scenic shuttle]

Probably true

Why is first sinners head so messed up

[lucid pasture]

if we take her cutscene at face value she was simply evolved/born like that (?)

[scenic shuttle]

But the other weavers evolved presumably from the same thing so why does she look so different like herra

Is she herrahs mom?!

[muted lantern]

What happens to the haunted after sister of the void, do all the haunted critters drop dead? Or just the voided ones?

[lucid pasture]

i wouldnt say first sinner look so different tho

she is just cracked in the head lol

[scenic shuttle]

Maybe

[tropic arrow]

maybe the Pharlid that First Sinner comes from was just borked

It may also just be artistic liberty, to make it clear that that was First Sinner

[lucid pasture]

id guess they die

[tropic arrow]

Haunting is just mind control

they should jsut... be alive

[lucid pasture]

i dont think we were shown anyone who could be free from said mind control tho like we have to kill garmond when that happens to him (ofc it was not only silk it was also void) but that can be said to almost everyone who was haunted at that point

but yeah maybe they are free idk

[main osprey]

Are all bosses haunted or only some?

[lucid pasture]

and alive now

[lucid pasture]

id say theres more of them not haunted than haunted bossess

[main osprey]

And are the automatons haunted too?

[tropic arrow]

There is a difference in that we had to kill Garmond, meanwhile we cut the threads at it's source, for the rest

[foggy fractal]

only some

[main osprey]

I'm having trouble understanding why automatons are hostile to us

[lucid pasture]

yes but that also means we had to kill garmond for nothing? why wouldnt we just go for silk if that could solve everythin </3

[tropic arrow]

they are seemingly for defending the core, and you are unauthorized

[lucid pasture]

i mean theyre protecting citadel

[lapis geode]

Their design to protect

[main osprey]

But like the 4th judge

Why is he hostile?

[tropic arrow]

The only automaton that seems really intelligent enough to make it's own decisions and conclusions is Second Sentinel

[lucid pasture]

the only one who isnt against you is second sentinel and thats because theyre one of the most conscious one, and even them start doubting you at some point. the rest are literally programmed for attacking

andprotecting

[scenic shuttle]

Fourth chorus?

[main osprey]

Yes sorry

[tropic arrow]

Twelfth Architect mentions that the core will keep functioning without them. I wonder how long that will be, given that the Cradle collapsed on the top half

[main osprey]

I don't understand what we did to wake him up

[lapis geode]

I think fourth chorus didn't see us as mere threat
since if I remember, there is a needle on its neck.

Maybe it's just thought that the one stabs it still there, and it's us?

[scenic shuttle]

Maybe

[tropic arrow]

pretty sure the pin is Seamstress'

[lucid pasture]

idk coincidence

[tropic arrow]

which implies Seamstress killed Fourth Chorus, and that's rad

[scenic shuttle]

That would make sense and she didn’t kill it just damaged it

[tropic arrow]

tomahto tomato. You get the point.

[lapis geode]

That's what I think too.
Fourth Chorus only see needle and automatically attack us. Addressing us as challenger

[main osprey]

Is it kinda like a Bloodborne where we "smell" different to other bugs?

[scenic shuttle]

Maybe

[tropic arrow]

To be fair

[lucid pasture]

i think theres a bit of that

haunted people are more after Hornet than after other bugs, and thats probably Silk influence

[lapis geode]

"You smell wyrmy" ahh plot

[tropic arrow]

a lot of the automatons may utilize Silk, and Grand Mother Silk controls... well, silk, so it is possible that the automatons are haunted too

[oak pike]

Sup
Just wanted to confirm something I am building my whole take on the lore on

Do weavers hate each other?

[scenic shuttle]

I don’t think so

[tropic arrow]

I mean

[lapis geode]

Just ask, is the haunting means the Mother controll all of them
manually or the silk itself has some inner, programmed soul?

[tropic arrow]

I don't think there is any particularly notable major hatred between Weavers for one another

[lucid pasture]

they are normal bugs with normal emotions idk they will hate some of them and will love some of each other

[lapis geode]

No?
They united to subdue the mother, aren't they?

[oak pike]

Alright I think I need to elaborate

[lapis geode]

Okay, go on

[muted lantern]

Well the haunting afflicts those who are dead or exhausted right? So it's possible some who were haunted survive? That being said I assume the voided/lost are going to keel over after the ending, but what about the standard haunting ?

[main osprey]

I'm not understanding what Phantom did, I know the lore piece on her is that she's expelling steam from the Citadel

But what are the repercussions now she's dead?

[lapis geode]

Which also create the mist ghost

[muted lantern]

Probably not much considering the citadels machinery is no longer doing much, and will probably break down without steam being expelled

[main osprey]

Oh I never thought about going back to the mist

[narrow glacier]

Just how bad is this this thing

[scenic shuttle]

It’s a parasite

[tropic arrow]

given that the standard haunting's end is either Hornet and Grand Mother Silk getting cocooned by the parasite, or Hornet cocooning most of the citadel, I feel it may not matter whether they survive or not

[scenic shuttle]

It has its own ending

[main osprey]

So this is very much like Bloodborne in that the Citadel is lost, people don't realise it but you go up there and you will die

[scenic shuttle]

Most likely die

[spiral yacht]

she aint bad

[muted lantern]

That being said will the citadel collapse without the machinery functioning?

[lean temple]

Eva is addressing the greyroot parasite

[spiral yacht]

o h

[narrow glacier]

I hope root and lifeblood gets more content in dlc

[tropic arrow]

Twelfth Architect claims that the cogwork core will keep functioning past her death

whether this holds true after the Cradle collapses on the top half or not, is unknown

[spiral yacht]

i did not read that

[main osprey]

It looks like it's been in a state of decay for ages

[spiral yacht]

anyways, man i love karmelita

[muted lantern]

Yes but I mean not all the haunted in sister of the void got voided, so is it possible that those who didn't get voided survive?

[main osprey]

There's that room with all the spoiled meat and flies

[scenic shuttle]

You mean ass Jim’s room?

[lapis geode]

She use the organ as a conductor, so she only to use silk as necessery
and able to produce as many mist ghost as possible. Functioned as guardian

One more fact is that the dialogue of the mist ghost steaming from her own sadness.
"You are not wanted here!"

That's the dialogue of the mist ghost. Hinting how miserable her heart now after being thrown.

[tropic arrow]

"One cannot. The skill to construct an Architect... That was taken by t-t-time. I am the last-final. The core remains to sustain the song, but no more Architects to tend-toil or build anew."

I suppose the automatons of the Core can run maintenance on it themselves

[main osprey]

I don't know who that is sadly sorry

[lapis geode]

By the way, where is the cogwork core?
The one that guarded by the dancer or the upper top?

[tropic arrow]

and just can't expand it

[scenic shuttle]

The chef boss in sinners road

[lean temple]

Disgruntled Chef Lugoli, aka Ass Jim

[main osprey]

No

[edgy nebula]

why are bugs like gurr the outcast and mottled skarr outcasted from the skarr tribe? is it because theyre mottled or because they kill their own kind

[main osprey]

I must have missed him as I thought I did sinners road but never came across a boss

[scenic shuttle]

You did the great taste of pharloom quest right?

[main osprey]

Not yet

[scenic shuttle]

You should do it

Meet ass Jim

He’s not absolutely awful to fight

[main osprey]

I don't think I have it unlocked, I went the back way to the citadel accidentally

[muted lantern]

So general post sister of the void all the haunted would just drop dead?

[scenic shuttle]

Possibly we really don’t know because lace survives

And she’s made of silk

[muted lantern]

Lace is a special case tho

[tropic arrow]

I mean come on

if Lace survives, surely the rest do

[scenic shuttle]

At least some of the rest maybe those who have been haunted for a long time wouldn’t

[muted lantern]

So basically we murdered garmond?

[main osprey]

Well it seems if you're haunted it doesn't mean you're dead as people in bell heart survive, but a lot do die

[lapis geode]

Yes

[muted lantern]

Because he would be fine post sister of the void?

[oak pike]

So what I think weavers are some creatures given the gift of silk by silk mother so they developed some ego to rule all bugs or make them under silk mother

"Hate eachother" ; some were against this ego behavior and saw the silk as a cursed and wanted to live among other bugs as equals not rulers so they turned against silkmom and the other weavers
And the first one to do so is the first sinner

[scenic shuttle]

We put him out of his misery because the void took him not silks

[muted lantern]

But the void is in all the silk sint it

[scenic shuttle]

There are still normal haunted enemies in act 3

[main osprey]

I love the capitalist theocracy of the citadel

[muted lantern]

Like is there a separation between the lost and the haunted after act 3 outside of mechanics?

Since it's the same void thread

[scenic shuttle]

Haunted is silk lost is voided which means they are cooked

Remember what happened to the lighthouse bug in the first game and the love key bug

[main osprey]

You have the wealthy at the top and then when you go underneath you have to pay for everything

Keeping a permanent underclass stuck in the city

[muted lantern]

I just struggle to believe garmond would survive after getting filled with void, which we know kills people, also hornets hunters journal says it corrupts the very soul, I feel like lace surviving is due to her nature not a precedent for all creatures

[scenic shuttle]

That is what I am saying yes

[silver spire]

oh yea how DID garmond get infected, since the void to my knowledge was only entering bugs due to their connection to GMS

[main osprey]

Hornet being part weaver and wyrm what does it mean that she produces silk inside her shell?

[somber frigate]

Once hornet sed shaw

[main osprey]

I didn't think hornet had a shell?

[scenic shuttle]

She produces silk and her shell is her head I believe

[main osprey]

Or is it not literal

I thought her head was her Mask?

[muted lantern]

Well she has a mask at least, and her black body is just black carapace

Which is shell,

[scenic shuttle]

Like the knights and no her shell is the mask and just her face

[muted lantern]

Shell in HK world is just exoskeleton

[scenic shuttle]

Yeah

[main osprey]

Yeah so what does that mean/why is it important that she produces silk inside?

[muted lantern]

Mask maker says she has a mask on, which makes sense as weavers explicitly wear masks that can be removed, like widow, and how herrah lacks the big dome

[scenic shuttle]

True but herrah also has a mask on as well remember

[main osprey]

Widow had her mask forcibly removed though

[scenic shuttle]

Also true

[muted lantern]

Yes but it's a different mask than typical weavers, meaning the masks aren't part of their body innately

[main osprey]

Which makes it sound like it wasn't a removable mask

[muted lantern]

Masks become part of the body when you put them on

So they are hard to remove

But I don't think hornets face grew like that

[scenic shuttle]

And how widow has two needles embedded in her spine

To stop her from using her own silk

[main osprey]

Sorry so to take it to another franchise are masks like the eldar aspect paths in 40k

Like quirrel had a mask that seemed to grant him longevity as a warrior

[muted lantern]

Also how does a spider have a spine

[scenic shuttle]

This is the game where moth gods exist bro

Normal human logic thrown out the window

[muted lantern]

I guess, but it's kinda odd since the whole game is about bugs

[main osprey]

How old is hornet too?

[scenic shuttle]

Very very very old

[muted lantern]

At least centuries

[scenic shuttle]

She is old enough to have had multiple mates

[main osprey]

So where did she live in deepnest?

[muted lantern]

She's called old one by mask maker

[scenic shuttle]

She didn’t

[muted lantern]

Distant village until she was sent to the hive

[scenic shuttle]

She lived in the white palace and was trained in the hive

[main osprey]

Oh the bee hive?

[muted lantern]

She spent some years with herrah as confirmed by red memory

[main osprey]

That's cool I never knew that

[muted lantern]

The bees made her needle

[main osprey]

(my fault for not finishing HK)

I love the bees

[scenic shuttle]

Very short time remember her mask is blurry

[muted lantern]

And hive queen Vespa trained her

[muted lantern]

More because it was a long time ago, but yes it was only very early in her life and didn't last long, but long enough to be taught by weavers

[scenic shuttle]

How can hornet talk to mister mushroom

She doesn’t have spore shroom

[main osprey]

Sorry where do you find out that vespa trained hornet?

[scenic shuttle]

Red dream silksong

[muted lantern]

She did shrooms as a teenager

[muted lantern]

Red memory before true ending

[scenic shuttle]

Seriously tho wait

[main osprey]

Oh it's in the game

Cool

[scenic shuttle]

Mister mushroom is a higher being

He’s called the witness and the herald

[main osprey]

Is mister mushroom not a joke?

[muted lantern]

Have you finished act 3? It's spoiler central here

[main osprey]

No no

So I'll leave now

[scenic shuttle]

He’s not a joke he is the passer of the age

[main osprey]

I didn't know if this was in HK or not

[muted lantern]

He's a joke but also lore relevant

[twin thunder]

He's the Herald, he's like comic relief but extremely important

[coral wren]

Whats the lore reason for Lost Laces theme being a banger

[scenic shuttle]

Void themes are always banger clearly

[twin thunder]

I don't think there's any lore themes behind that

[scenic shuttle]

The knights the hollow knight

[coral wren]

Did chris have a live orchestra? Those strings sound so grand and full

[scenic shuttle]

So Grand you say

[coral wren]

Yeah
It sounds awesome

[twin thunder]

Why do people have their game completion next to their names?

[scenic shuttle]

Like grand mother silk

[scenic shuttle]

Funsies

[coral wren]

Her theme wasn't as memorable

[twin thunder]

Fair enough

[twin thunder]

I only had to fight her four times.

[coral wren]

But lost lace theme is amazing

[scenic shuttle]

You said grand and I was making a grand mother silk joke and she’s there during the lost lace fight

[twin thunder]

Silksong wasn't really all that difficult. The bosses I've fought were beaten in less than 10 attempts every time.

[coral wren]

Also the final section of LL's theme sounds simalar to the path of pain/hollowknight phase 2

[scenic shuttle]

I wonder why maybe because of the friend waiting outside the cocoon

The knight

[coral wren]

Probably

[valid compass]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1197656501465124905/1380310290175889548/caption.gif

[scenic shuttle]

Also anyone have a ss of the shade lord frame in that cutscene

[modest coyote]

LL fight is very fun but I do think they should add more visual contrast in phase 3

[chrome cloud]

I think both Embrace the Void and Dream No More are equally canon in Silksong

[coral wren]

I agree

Its hard to see whats happening

[scenic shuttle]

It’s embrace the void the shade lord is in the cutscene

[chrome cloud]

both shade lord and the ghost + it's siblings show up in the cutscene

[coral wren]

Also her dash tenticles hitbox is way bigger than the visuals

[scenic shuttle]

Yeah the shade lord is the knight

[chrome cloud]

well i mean yeah but you know what i meant

[coral wren]

Like way way bigger
Twice the height

[scenic shuttle]

And remember the scene at end of p5 right before the abs rad fight

Sorry meant after end of p4

With all the siblings

[coral wren]

Cant wait for absolute lost lace

[scenic shuttle]

Imagine a shade lord boss fight

[chrome cloud]

I imagine going from Shade Lord to Little Ghost is not an easy split-second process

[scenic shuttle]

Well it was in the cutscene

And it did it like this little ghost-shade lord-little ghost

[chrome cloud]

i dont think that happened in the Literal sense

[jovial trail]

That’d be so fire, I wonder how it would make sense in the story in a DLC

[coral wren]

Did chris have a live orchestra this time?

[scenic shuttle]

Probably look at the credits bro

[coral wren]

Credits are too boring for me to pay attention to

[scenic shuttle]

Fair enough

[gilded beacon]

It takes place in godhome after it got all voided up, idk

[coral wren]

I was busy texting my husband about my victory

[chrome cloud]

I doubt it, but the memory thing with the needolin is very cool and I hope the godhome equivalent has us fight ppl from hornets past like queen vespa and little ghost

If there is a godhome equivalent ofc

[scenic shuttle]

Well if there was a little ghost fight why not shade lord

[vale jetty]

I got a theory why theres so much cut content and there's no Steel lore in the game:
We know TC planned steel assassins arc in Silksong. What if it grew too big and too relevant? So they decided to cut it from the main game, as that would lower the stake of main story? Imagine if in Witcher 3 we would have Hearts of Stone not as a DLC, but as a side quest chain. That would feel weird and the fact that it's additional content works very good. The same I predict for Silksong - steel assasins arc on new places and the ones that were cut from the game (coral one especially, as they had so much done for this and we saw steel assasins sequence there)

[jovial trail]

Huh what if we went back to godhome but not for the bossrush mode

[chrome cloud]

Because the deep melody is based on memories so I'm assuming it would be fights she has already fought

[gilded beacon]

We go to godhome for the date sim

[scenic shuttle]

Well then the hollow knight would be there as well

[chrome cloud]

if that IS how godhome would work

[scenic shuttle]

Since she fought them

[chrome cloud]

sort of i guess

[scenic shuttle]

She stabbed them in the head I think it counts

Still I want an absrad level fight at some point

And there is only one being in the game that is clearly that stronger

[chrome cloud]

3 masks per hit

[scenic shuttle]

Shade lord

[jovial trail]

Sherma!

[scenic shuttle]

Lost lace has an attack like that

[jovial trail]

Oh…

[scenic shuttle]

Would be really funny

[chrome cloud]

?

[scenic shuttle]

It’s like the nailmaster

[gilded beacon]

Sherma: Lord of Song

[scenic shuttle]

Sly

Sherma with a big ass nail

[gilded beacon]

With big ass bell

[scenic shuttle]

The thing where she makes the glowing circle and does that blitz attack it does 3 masks

[chrome cloud]

which

[chrome cloud]

Oh ive never gotten hit by that lol

[scenic shuttle]

Yeah I did for testing purposes

[jovial trail]

What NPC which doesn’t have a boss fight yet could get one

[chrome cloud]

I hope for a queen vespa fight

[scenic shuttle]

Snail shamans

[gilded beacon]

Maybe Seamstress

[sinful nimbus]

Vespa

[jovial trail]

Ohhhh you might cooking

[gilded beacon]

She's also a pin master

[scenic shuttle]

Or the pin master

[chrome cloud]

Pinstress has a fight

[gilded beacon]

The only good answer

[scenic shuttle]

I am talking about the nail upgrade guy

[gilded beacon]

I mean seamstress

[chrome cloud]

hes not a fighter

[jovial trail]

A Vespa fight would 100% come with a memories bossrush mode

[scenic shuttle]

No pinstress has a fight seamstress doesn’t

[chrome cloud]

Please 🙏🙏🙏

[scenic shuttle]

Since she is dead

[chrome cloud]

Who else from hornets memories could we fight

[scenic shuttle]

Pale king

[jovial trail]

The pale king

[scenic shuttle]

Same braincell

[chrome cloud]

did they ever fight tho

[scenic shuttle]

No but it would be cool

[chrome cloud]

Fair

[gilded beacon]

Yeah, that's why I say that she could get one

[jovial trail]

No but like who cares it’s hype af

[scenic shuttle]

Wait the 5 great knights

[chrome cloud]

I was thinking like the dead vessel in Greenpath

[scenic shuttle]

The five great knights of hallownest

[jovial trail]

Also [spoilers for datamined stuff]||there’s a pale king crest in the game files||

[gilded beacon]

The Ghost, they're the P5 boss

[scenic shuttle]

It would be fucking perfect

[chrome cloud]

smh i cant believe team cherry would copy pale court

[scenic shuttle]

THERES A WHAT

[gilded beacon]

You read that right

[jovial trail]

Yup

[chrome cloud]

Hot diggity

[scenic shuttle]

I am gonna lose it

[chrome cloud]

Its not available as of yet tho

[scenic shuttle]

Holy shit

[chrome cloud]

Does it have any code

[jovial trail]

It could be cut content, but I REALLY hope it isn’t

[jovial trail]

Idk I think it’s just a texture

[chrome cloud]

damn

[gilded beacon]

It may be reused still

[scenic shuttle]

I want it so bad

[coral wren]

Did phantoms attacks seem extremely simaler to hornet from hollow Knight

[scenic shuttle]

Someone mod it now

[scenic shuttle]

She uses a similar weapon with the long pin

[jovial trail]

Idk where it would have been used unless they cut a big big segment

[gilded beacon]

I wonder what special abilities it may have

[coral wren]

He felt so simaler that i was trying to dodge his attacks the same way as hornets

[scenic shuttle]

Like a extra damage to void enemies

[gilded beacon]

Cough* cough* Coral Gorge

[coral wren]

I kept expecting him to reel his nail back in after throwing it

[scenic shuttle]

And the snail place

[gilded beacon]

Even better:
Turns all your attacks into Shaw Blades

[scenic shuttle]

Beautiful

[coral wren]

Why did they cut content anyway? They didn't need to ship the game out to make money

[gilded beacon]

Its like Architect's, deals more than one hit but in a slash instead of a poke

[scenic shuttle]

Yes it would be so good someone get someone to mod that now

[coral wren]

They didn't have any deadline

[gilded beacon]

And maybe a different healing mechanic like Witch's or Beast

[scenic shuttle]

It does a flash of light when you heal

You have to do path of pain to get it

[gilded beacon]

FLASHBANG!!

[scenic shuttle]

Yes

[gilded beacon]

Maybe when instead of using a lot of silk to heal you instead can hold to heal like in HK

[jovial trail]

Ohhh that’d be nice as a dlc crest

[gilded beacon]

TC should hire me

[coral wren]

Would a crest be too overpowered that just directly healed you when attcking

[gilded beacon]

Beast?

[jovial trail]

I think so, beast is kinda that

[coral wren]

Beast does?

[jovial trail]

When you focus

[gilded beacon]

Th down slash valances it, tho

[vivid kernel]

OH MY GOOOOOOOD

it's so beautiful

[coral wren]

I thought you had to spend all your silk for like 2 seconds of lifesteal

[jovial trail]

Yea that’s why it’s kinda that

[coral wren]

Im talking about just straight up at all times your needle attacks heal you

Like maybe 1/5th of a mask per hit

[jovial trail]

If you had to do like 8 hits and it replaced your silk maybe something cool could be make

[gilded beacon]

Ok hear me out:
A lifeblood/Plasmium crest

[scenic shuttle]

It’s down attack for beast is so shit

[jovial trail]

Huh but we already have lifeblood overdose

[gilded beacon]

No red tool slots and FOUR spells, turns all your mask into lifeblood and the heal button now serves as a spell

[coral wren]

True

[jovial trail]

Is lifeblood overdose overpowered? I haven’t tried it in bosses and stuff but it seems very strong

[gilded beacon]

I haven't tried either, tho you can't sit on benches

[vague whale]

I'd love to see a lifeblood highest% speedrun

[vital ruin]

Any information in silksong detailing the black wyrm in hollow knight?

[desert mango]

So, anyone else notice that Hornet literally nicknamed the bell beast “Herrah”?

She shouts that when she calls for it

[gilded beacon]

Don't think so

[desert mango]

Named after her mom. Sweet or sad?

[gilded beacon]

Both

[vague whale]

It's a similar noise but not Herrah as far as we know

[craggy smelt]

none whatsoever

[desert mango]

Idk ma’am, she says it how I’d pronounce Herrah at least

[scenic shuttle]

Absolutely none

[edgy barn]

I'm 99% certain that the blackwyrm was a throaway line meant to sound cool and it will never be referenced again

[vital ruin]

Next team cherry game, hollow knight: black wyrm

[pliant meadow]

Idk not really

[scenic shuttle]

It sounds like herrah

[craggy smelt]

i'd wait 10 years

[desert mango]

Why do I read “Pablo” like that one anti-drug ad?

[gilded beacon]

I wanna be Pablo so bad

[scenic shuttle]

Why does he have a rake

[vital ruin]

Trilogies are the bane of any video game

[pliant meadow]

Hey they're not all bad

[vital ruin]

Hollow knight 3 gonna be the WORST out of all team cherry games

[scenic shuttle]

Lies

[gilded beacon]

It's a MMO service gacha game

[vital ruin]

It's always 2, then 1, and then 3

[scenic shuttle]

It’s gonna be transcendent peak

[craggy smelt]

there is mention of a land called the 'Blackbarrens'
which like... 100% confirmed is Blackwyrm territory

[scenic shuttle]

Where?

[vital ruin]

Blackbarrens and black wyrm are related?

[craggy smelt]

the Cradle, the bit with all the cages
same place mentions the 'City of Steel'

[scenic shuttle]

City of steel huh

[craggy smelt]

probably not, I was kidding, they just both have 'black' in their name

[vital ruin]

Just because they're black doesn't mean they're related

[pliant meadow]

There is literally nothing about the blackwyrm in silksong 😭

[scenic shuttle]

The steel soul goobers might not be as gone as we thought

[pliant meadow]

Don't forget sandsea wastes

[gilded beacon]

I wish we could say the same for pale things

[brave dock]

i know like nothing about the lore, but is the big void monster actually the knight from the first game? after the godhome ending?

[scenic shuttle]

Yes it is

[pliant meadow]

Yes