sk-lore

[rain spindle]

Hornet is not a higher being

Not even close

[outer ermine]

so in terms of aura the only thing that seems to be more powerful than the masters is the shade lord

[rain spindle]

Thats because void is the natural enemy of the pale beings

[timber pond]

Multiple NPCs refer to her as a pale Being

[buoyant wyvern]

Hornet is a demigod

[quartz salmon]

The most simple explanation, the hallownest maskmaker

[rain spindle]

Being pale is not the same as being a higher being

The vessels are not higher beings either

[timber pond]

Pale is greater than higher anyway lol

[outer ermine]

good point

[rain spindle]

No

[untold gorge]

it literally crack open radiance face with two fingers we see the aura bro

[rain spindle]

Hornet is not a higher being

[outer ermine]

pale is different i think

[timber pond]

Im not gonna sit here and say Crust king Nyleth or Skarsinger are stronger than Grandmother silk lol 😂

[outer ermine]

you can be a pale higher being but you can also be a non pale higher being or a non higher being pale

[rain spindle]

They arent

[timber pond]

They are Higher beings

[rain spindle]

Grandmother silk was nerfed

[rain spindle]

LMAO

LMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAO

No

None of them are

[timber pond]

Higher beings Have power enough to rule over a tribe

[outer ermine]

they are powerful beings for sure though like ant queen could sense hornet coming and what she was im pretty sure

[rain spindle]

No

Thats not what a higher being is

Higher beings CREATE tribes or raise the focus of them

[muted lantern]

but how is the mask maker in hallownest from pharloom? he says its made by a distant relative of pharlooms craft and refers to them as legged stewards, the only other time he refers to something as legged is when hes referencing the weavers who built on mount fay, so this implies the weavers make their own masks? we know the weavers have masks, because the big ball head is not their head, so i suppose they carve them themselves or they are some silk construct?

[timber pond]

That is what defines Radiance as a higher being. She created the Moths

[rain spindle]

Creating is different than ruling

[earnest turtle]

i really hope lifeblood is adressed because it's spreading at a pretty alarming rate and is already outside the wormways

[rain spindle]

Are the mantis lords higher beings lol

[covert night]

by that logic even mantis lords are higher beings

[untold gorge]

i mean karmelita definitely made all the ants

[rain spindle]

No

[untold gorge]

shes an ant queen she probably shat all of them out

[serene belfry]

also shes immensely powerful somewhat intangible and formerly ruled over all of hallownest presumably

[timber pond]

Well Nyleth created shellwood, Unn created Greenpath. idk about skarsinger and Crust king

[craggy smelt]

higher beings are said to 'exist above all others', that's really the only definition we have
its a matter of great power

[rain spindle]

The ants are implied to come from the same source as the mantises

[quartz salmon]

Calm down, he says that the mask isn't his, he didn't make it, but the face under the mask reminds him of those legged stewards, the weavers

[serene belfry]

no i believe she was just the most skilled warrior of them and helped unify them better

[buoyant wyvern]

It like that

[outer ermine]

im pretty sure higher beings usually can create domains for themsleves in sort of dreamish realms at least in the first game a lot of them could

[rain spindle]

Nyleth didnt create all shellwood. She just made the plants. Sister splinter for example wasnt created by her

[timber pond]

Skarsinger had a song powerful enough to Block out The control GMS tried to Graple over them

[lean temple]

"Pale It... You would reject the role? Are you not tamed, bound, by Masters?... You would know... obedience is essential.
Recall, the fate of those who defy... Even you higher... Especially you higher...
**...Compression... **We have suffered it. We would never wish it upon another."

[rain spindle]

The only higher being in silksong is GMS

[untold gorge]

her children

[buoyant wyvern]

I thought Higher Beings gave consciousness to the other bugs

[rain spindle]

Doesnt mean she created them

[lethal burrow]

like the mantis lords

[rain spindle]

Higher beings dont age

[craggy smelt]

the pale king did, its not a universal trait of all of them though

[quartz salmon]

They are literally her children, she's an ant queen

[muted lantern]

he never changes subject though? heres the full line: A fine face, yours. Not of my work. Not of this kingdom's craft. Not now at least.[NPC]:But the deeper form. Distant relationship. Some form of Pharloom and our old, legged, stewards. [NPC]:Now! To work. To work! The masks are needed.</entry>

[rain spindle]

Karmelita was old as fuck

[untold gorge]

i know thats what i was saying

[quartz salmon]

"But the deeper form" he means her actual face

[serene belfry]

actually fair point mb she is their queen and ant queens birth the whole colony

[outer ermine]

im pretty sure by mentioning the legged mask maker meant that hornet is related to weavers who are from pharloom

[neat sandal]

"At her youthful peak, her voice united all Skarr in her service."
if all ant are her children then she do not need to united them

[timber pond]

MAsk maker implies that Hornet ages , just extremely slowly. So its possible they do age, just at a rate incomprehensible to normal bugs.

[rain spindle]

Hornet is not a higher being

[serene belfry]

i disagree though that karmelita would be a higher being tho

[muted lantern]

hmm, so the deeper form is her face? i thought he was referencing the style of craft as form is a way to describe a craft as well, but i can see what you mean

[timber pond]

Yeah but that half of her makes her life incredibly long

[lean temple]

She definitely isn't

[rain spindle]

Yeah but shes not total

Pale Beings:

• The Pale King
• The White Lady
• Grand Mother Silk

Other Higher Beings:

• The Radiance
• Nightmare Heart
• Unn
• The Knight/Lord of Shades

Children of Higher Beings:

• Hornet
• The Vessels

Created by Higher Beings but not "children"

• Lace
• Phantom
• Weavers
• Kingsmolds/Wingmolds/Collector
• Moth tribe
• Mosskin

Possible Higher Beings:

• Lifeblood Creature
• Gods of Storm and Rain

[serene belfry]

i think full pale/higher beings for them age is irrelevant

[timber pond]

If Unn can be a higher being why the fuck cant Nyleth Lmao

[lean temple]

The Masters are cracked if they can "compress" higher beings

[rain spindle]

Because she didnt create most bugs in shellwood

She only created the flowers

[serene belfry]

it doesnt matter at all, radiance was intangible and existed in dreams, pale king came out of a giant wyrm body, unn is.. unn same for nightmare heart

[outer ermine]

unn literally created nature though

thats pretty sick

[untold gorge]

tbh your childrens arent always loyal if you look at gms getting fucked over by everything she created

[buoyant wyvern]

Grimm

[serene belfry]

all of their biology and the ways they work are so incredibly different from other bugs aside from just being a little weird and stronger

[rain spindle]

Only nightmare king. As an avatar

[timber pond]

Nyleth also did, She reshaped Shellwood and half of the shit in there is hers.

[neat sandal]

cause Unn can create moss people, who are sentient
why Nyleth only create beast

[rain spindle]

Unn created a lot more. From a fucking dream

Nyleth is not regarded as a god. Unn is

[serene belfry]

more importantly if nyleth were a higher being the game likely would've emphasised alot more

[outer ermine]

i think the heart bosses are powerful creatures not cool enough to be higher beings though. Im like 99% sure if they were it would have been mentioned somehow

[serene belfry]

aside from capabilities because thats difficult to discuss considering how greatly it varies from each higher being

[rain spindle]

People really think that being a higher being is just ruling a tribe

[serene belfry]

yea exactly

[timber pond]

yeah because this is our definition. It can range

I would define alot of Tribe leaders as existing above all others

[rain spindle]

It's said when a character is a higher being

[neat sandal]

it's said all Skarr, not all her children

[serene belfry]

thats fair but try compare them to other higher beings and like said above how they are presented by the game

[rain spindle]

Even the weakest higher being (unn) has way more feats than nyleth and karmelita

[outer ermine]

a lot of higher beings can affect a ton of bugs with their pressence ( radiance infection , gms curse , white kings 'beacon' or unn calling the moss people)

[serene belfry]

if the heart bearers were higher beings the game would go out of its way to imply or mention that cause its a huge deal lore wise

[rain spindle]

Green prince is a higher being

[serene belfry]

the heart bearers are more like monarchs/rulers compared to being straight up deities

[timber pond]

Well its hard, Because the Higher beings we define in HK all have to do with dreams. But the dream is dead after it so it probably dosent matter anymore. THere is no implication that The dream realm is still alive after Hollow Knight.

[whole hawk]

City of Steel DLC but the True End is onky accessible through SteelSoul. Team Cherry would never... or?

[honest anvil]

it took three hearts to almost equal the power of the monarch or hornet herself

[lethal burrow]

a higher being is just a being of great power comparable to what one may imagine the level of power a god has would be.

[lean temple]

Three hearts AND Hornet I'm pretty sure

[neat sandal]

broodmother is higher being cause she give birth to flies

[timber pond]

lol

[lethal burrow]

i feel like i nailed it

[rain spindle]

Gruz mother is a higher being

[outer ermine]

also im pretty sure in red memory the queen talks directly to hornet not as a memory but as real herself because she is a higher being

[rain spindle]

Anyway, higher beings are gods

Hornet herself says in silksong

[lean temple]

When talking to Lace in citadel I think

[rain spindle]

The masters are likely not higher beings but must have some degree of void manipulation

They likely created sharpe and the others

[craggy smelt]

yeah, I think it's more 'above' in a supernatural sense, not just like a higher rank or authority

a being can grow in power to attain that level - TK was said to have eventually evolved beyond the pale king

[outer ermine]

they could be we know so little about masters actual nature

[timber pond]

The Heart Bosses do teeter that line though. The only diffrence between them and first game higher beings is that in Hollow knight "the Dream" sets them apart in thier creation.

Skarsingers song and nyleths creation are pretty supernatural (crust king idk though)

[serene belfry]

true but i mean more in how important/grand they are

unn created greenpath and nature in hallownest as a whole apparently
radiance influences 99% of the enemies in the game and is metaphorically the sun lmao and presumably created the moths who worshipped her
pale king elevated the consciousness of a whole kingdom and his light apparently drew even godhome to hallownest
GMS created an entire race and like the radiance influences/is the reason why most enemies in the game are present (the haunting)

in alot of ways they are presented like forces of nature

the green prince and his lover ruled over verdania and have more humble origins in comparison to higher beings (slaying the palestag) while still impressive
crust king is just genghis khan lmao
skarrsinger did in a way "create" the ant colony but she likely did this BIOLOGICALLY compared to the higher beings that straight up dreamed them into existence
nyleth basically kept shellwood safe for travellers and gave life to only SOME of the enemies there not the entire area

[rain spindle]

I very much doubt void has more than one higher being

[serene belfry]

mb for rant but yea

[whole hawk]

I'm willing to bet the Masters are void-adjacent entities or even sentient void beings.

Maybe even direct descendants or unwitting creations of the ancient civilization.

[outer ermine]

they could be completly different higher beings that are using the void somehow but idk you are probably right

[serene belfry]

i dont like the notion that the void has a pale/higher being equivalent at all the games seem to go out of their way to portray the void as its own thing: "Inspired or mad, those ancient bugs. They devoted their worship to no lord, or power, or strength, but to the very darkness itself."

[timber pond]

You forget that Skarsingers song could aperently Resist GMS's Silk aperently acording to snail shamans.

That is kind of extremely impressive

[outer ermine]

i wouldnt say shade lord controls all of the void all the time but it can control the void that it comes in contact with

[craggy smelt]

the Masters can also threaten pale/higher beings with something called 'Compression'
it sounds like they can keep both Void and pale beings in check

[outer ermine]

well pretty much all songs can resist gmss silk curse

[whole hawk]

I mean it's just as impressive as the mantis tribe resisting the radiance

[serene belfry]

^ the mantis tribe also resisted the radiance and they were far from higher beings

not to say it isnt impressive but nothing that indicates she is a deity or higher being

[craggy smelt]

maybe
I try to think of the most powerful beings TK faces, NKG and Radiance come to mind
they are both very godly, I can't think of Karmelita and Khann as being like that in the same way
even Nyleth

[untold gorge]

act 3 seem to show that not all of the void is under its will seeing as it had to slash all the tentacles away

[timber pond]

IF the masters are void in some way, then they may be similar to higher beings in a sense.

[craggy smelt]

i wonder if the masters represent a kind of balancing middle force between pale beings and the Void
light, dark, with steel grey inbetween

[timber pond]

The only thing that sets them apart in my mind is the fact that they have access to the dream IMO.

[serene belfry]

it could either be in areas or the knight didnt unify it because it had no objective or will until he found hornet

[outer ermine]

hmm. In act 3 knight emerged as itself and not as his shade lord versrion which could mean that shade lord could also only exist within a dreamlike realm or needs specific conditions to emerge

[whole hawk]

The logic of voidheart and Shade Lord at least for me is I imagine it's like a whale (Shade Lord) or a school of fish (void heart+siblings) swimming in a sea.

[untold gorge]

tbh the knight is the shadelord regardless of its god master form or not

shadelord was a concept before the dlc you get called shadelord if you dream nail the corpse holding the void dish where you get shadow dash

[timber pond]

I simply think he can Transform at will with void heart. the Claw animations that stop the tendrils are very much shade lord and not the knights "tendril slap"

[outer ermine]

well yeah but the form could be meaningful

[serene belfry]

but they uses the slashes shown in godhome ending and the godmaster form popped up for a bit, they probably used that form cause it was more recognisable for hornet

[timber pond]

Its when he focuses lol

[untold gorge]

i think the flash of that form was a symbolic thing but also we dont see the pure vessels shade so idk

[whole hawk]

Void Heart Knight = Shade Lord. It's like Radiance = Absolute Radiance.

it's fhe same entity.

[outer ermine]

im still not sure if the knight can emerge as shade lord at will but i dont completly doubt that he could

[untold gorge]

i completly forgot about radiance being attuned into a stronger form yeah

[serene belfry]

abs rad being the radiance at the peak of its power presumably but yea

[timber pond]

yeah i think That TK becomes" shade lord" when he gets void heart because thats what the statue that gives you shade cloak says after you do it. its just we dont know what that means until godhome shows us.

[serene belfry]

possibly can do it even after dream no more offscreen

[timber pond]

Damn you team cherry.

Where are you Jaspal Boodram

[craggy smelt]

one day...

[timber pond]

Demand where your character is

[jaunty elm]

I watched a video where the guy said embrace the void isint canon cuz hornet cant take on the hollow knight solo, what yall think

[outer ermine]

dlc 🙏

[timber pond]

I mean after this game? nah she totally could 😂

Even with her base moveset

[outer ermine]

hollow knight is pretty weak after being in black egg temple for so long so im pretty sure hornet can easily defeat him

[timber pond]

Black egg temple nerf

[jaunty elm]

true

[timber pond]

That shit covred in Weaver weakening runes

[earnest turtle]

goku betrayed and locked in the black egg temple

[timber pond]

https://tenor.com/view/go-to-bed-goku-i-dont-wanna-angry-super-saiyan-gif-22669846

[jaunty elm]

https://tenor.com/view/timed-out-goku-chained-time-chamber-dragon-ball-gif-9924745199902768088

[untold gorge]

radiance is trapped and betrayed in the hyperbolic time vessel whos also trapped and betrayed in the hyperbolic time black egg

[jaunty elm]

what if radiance trained for 10 thousand years in the black egg

[untold gorge]

tbh pretty sure hornet gets folded cus she says the black egg was built to sustain the vessels and not her so she cant stay in it for too long without it draining her instantly

[timber pond]

It would have to be in the Steel City . If hornets logic of "why are these guys cahsing me? ill go kick thier ass" is anything to go by

[untold gorge]

but also the knight folds her every fight and you fold pure vessel at its peak so she would get stomped regardless

[outer ermine]

imagine hornet beats steel assasin and gets into his memory to look at steel city

[timber pond]

The most Hype and arua moment for me would be hornet going to the steel city and Finding The Knight traped in a Cage.

and then he helps you against the masters or some shit and returns to his brothers in the void after.

[outer ermine]

nah im sure the knight after coming to terms with void can pretty much solo anyone

unless its everbloom maybe

[whole hawk]

I actually wonder if theyll let us use the dream nail to explore clean bilewater in DLC

[hardy shale]

are the knight, hornet, THK pale beings?

[craggy smelt]

hornet considers herself one

hard to say with the vessels - they are children of pale beings, but also profoundly changed by the Void

[untold gorge]

yeah and you meet past groal and hes very chill and likeable and also a little talented

[earnest turtle]

i feel like the lack of dreams and presence of memories via silk means dream nail is out of the question

[timber pond]

uhhh

[earnest turtle]

not that we wouldnt do it through silk, but no dreams

[hardy shale]

oh ||is the weaver queen ending hornet giving in to her pale nature then?||

[craggy smelt]

pretty much - she mentions worrying about doing this to the Caretaker

[timber pond]

If anyone has a reddit acount could they go to this post and ask if thier fiancé is Jaspal? https://www.reddit.com/r/Silksong/comments/1naqi84/why_oh_why_would_they_ever_remove_sharpe_i_was_so/

[hardy shale]

damn

thx

[lucid pasture]

both weaver and pale

[narrow glacier]

Found this on Chinese Youtube.

Apparently called the "Abandoned ending"

[timber pond]

yeah cause its cut

[craggy smelt]

intriguing...

[timber pond]

But interesting , we have never seen the GMS animation before

[craggy smelt]

striking at her heart rather than her head

[timber pond]

I almost feel like mabye the prerequiste for getting it is not getting all silk hearts?

or at least was

[narrow glacier]

Yeah, it looks like "You weren't strong enough so GMS binds you instead"

Looks like she gains some Hornet and Pale King motifs on her design too.

[edgy river]

Wait is this real?

You just don't bind?

How have I not heard of it before it seems so basic

[craggy smelt]

the animation there didn't even seem to give you the option

[timber pond]

I dont think its in the game, could be wrong though?

[craggy smelt]

could be unused assets people are digging up

[edgy river]

Huh... Yeah

[narrow glacier]

It's a mod on Nexus

[timber pond]

Kind of weird how complete it is though

[narrow glacier]

"Enable Abandoned Ending"

[edgy river]

If smth like that was in the game it would get an acchievement for sure

[edgy river]

So it's in the files?

[narrow glacier]

I'm assuming so, if it's just an "enabler"

[craggy smelt]

it's like that sometimes
easier to just switch something off than try and remove it completely

[edgy river]

Yeah I get it

It makes sense. Interesting they removed the idea tho, since it seems so finalized

[timber pond]

The conditions for it might not have been clear enough. also like having 3 Absolutely horrible endings might have been a bit too much 😂

At least in hollow knight they were like, a gradient of bad to good.

[edgy river]

Tbf all endings in HK other than 2 were pretty bad

[timber pond]

Here its just like Evil,Terrible. worst, good

[narrow glacier]

To be fair all the horrible endings are just “you didn’t get to act 3”

[edgy river]

Yeah

[timber pond]

I mean just sealing yourself away isnt as bad as taking hornet with you

[edgy river]

Is there 5?

Act 2 normal
Act 2 cursed
Act 2 true ending (technically not an ending)
Act 3
Act 3 cursed???

[narrow glacier]

Yeah sealed siblings has some horrible implications, especially if the knight can’t actually hold the radiance

[honest anvil]

act 3 cursed doesn't exist/work, you can't enter void with parasite

[narrow glacier]

At least in the first one another vessel can try again

[timber pond]

i dont think you can be cursed in act 3? or that it matters even.

[narrow glacier]

Hornet actively refuses to dive into the abyss while cursed

[honest anvil]

you can definitely be cursed in act 3 but there's a special line of dialogue if you try to dive with the parasite

[edgy river]

If he can radiance is locked away forever as well. Tho she says the black egg temple will drain her so she probably just died regardless

[edgy river]

U cant? I got cursed in act 3 but didn't try to do it

[timber pond]

Hornet refuses to dive if curse

[edgy river]

What? Didn't know she was that much of a coward. I'm disappointed

[sage heart]

I just realized…i dont see pondcatcher reed in act 3…where is he

[honest anvil]

she doesn't have a choice in the matter the parasite refuses to dive
if you try it stops you

[narrow glacier]

The one thing Hornet admits she’s afraid of is the abyss

[edgy river]

There should be an ending she beats lace cursed and then the knight tries to save her and the curse kills the knight as well and they all die

[fair zealot]

no? hornet explicitly says she's not afraid of it

[timber pond]

The parasite itself fears the void i think

[narrow glacier]

Anymore* is the caveat. She was afraid of it but steeled her resolve

[fair zealot]

fair point

[edgy river]

She was def afraid of it in HK

[narrow glacier]

I don’t blame her. I have heavy thalassophobia

So the void freaks me the hell out

[edgy river]

Honestly if a mess of entities that are all individualistic and trying to kill me just for the fun of it existed in a weird black goo that can hollow you inside out

I might also be afraid

[narrow glacier]

Imagine being in the abyss and just seeing

Just watching, staring

[honest anvil]

she is reasonably wary of it, but the parasite rejects it utterly
what is the parasite btw do we have any idea it's like really powerful

[edgy river]

Get a little distracted and she might not be the gendered child anymore

[narrow glacier]

No wonder why The Radiance is so scared of this shit

[maiden meteor]

I mean it seems like void has an ancient beef with HBs

[narrow glacier]

My running theory is that whatever species The White Lady and The Greg Root are have an insatiable urge to propagate

[edgy river]

This gets to a point. Void alone can't control people from the inside right? The vessels only work that way because they were hollowed out when still an egg

[narrow glacier]

Probably the two opposing primordial forces.

[gusty vapor]

Tbh I never realized it midfight but the abyss was tryna drag the radiance down during the fight

[narrow glacier]

Yep

And she was running

[gusty vapor]

I legit thought the abyss at the bottom was out to get us considering it damages us

[edgy river]

Pharloom people void stuff is due to the haunting of GMS imbued with void in act 3

[maiden meteor]

It can kinda control people

or drive them mad

[vague whale]

Big Nothing vs. Big Somethings

[maiden meteor]

lighthouse guy was driven into turning light off

[edgy river]

It seems like it can talk to them in some way but externally for the most part

And of course, kill them

[craggy smelt]

one interesting thought about that - Void has been shown to mimic Soul in the first game, matching the Knight's spells
in SS we see it mimic the Soul-infused silk and the effects of the Haunting it produced
PK called for the vessels to be 'Soul of Wyrm, Soul of Root, Heart of Void' - basically the children of the pale beings mixed with Void
so the Void might have mimicked the Soul of the pale children, taking on their attributes

[honest anvil]

the void is dangerous and pursues relentlessly anything with Soul, but it's not really out to get us because it's not out to get anything. it's not a thinking creature (other than the knight), it's just kind of an instinctual entity

[maiden meteor]

I wonder why void killed PK (if that’s the case)

was it just searching for soul

or did it explicitly targeted PK

[edgy river]

Yeah that makes sense

[narrow glacier]

Pale/Light seems to have a heavy emphasis on individualism. Strongest will conquers the rest.

Meanwhile the void seems to lack individuality. Where everything is one.

[edgy river]

Btw it took me way to long to realize the frog uses vengeful spirit because it shallowed the dead shamman

But this brings me to a question. Which is... WHAT? Can a dead body cast spells?????

[honest anvil]

you can absorb power from dead bodies we do it literally all the time

[maiden meteor]

maybe combined hatred of Vessels somehow driven void to kill King

[timber pond]

I like the interpretation that Pale beings are Greek Gods and The void Is Hades, meaning shade lord would be HAdes himself.

[lucid dirge]

we literally get desolate dive from doing that bruh

[edgy river]

I mean the knight was void and hornet specifically binds the powers from silk

[maiden meteor]

probably the same way Soul Master got desolate dive

you just extract it from shaman

[edgy river]

I guess but the knight end the shamans are void,

So I thought we were literally fusing it into ourselves

[lucid pasture]

and groal is frog

[honest anvil]

i don't think the void has anything to do with it here you can just kind of absorb magic and get stronger

[lucid dirge]

soul master isnt

[maiden meteor]

I don’t think shamans are void per se

they just experiment with it

[honest anvil]

also shamans probably aren't void they just really like it

[craggy smelt]

shamans aren't Void, they can just use various powers for magic

[gusty vapor]

Theyre all void colored tho

[lucid dirge]

i think the snail shamans are literally just snails

[edgy river]

Oh, true I guess the soul masters did use the shamans as a base

[gusty vapor]

Also groal literally got abyss fireballs from eating escargot

[narrow glacier]

Shamans dabble in power. And nothing more powerful than the void (so far)

[edgy river]

I thought they ran away after the dream so they wouldn't die by touching the everbloom

[shy island]

do you guys think Prime Hallownest was a better place to live than prime pharloom

[edgy river]

But knight touches it quite a bit and it does nothing to him

[honest anvil]

i'm pretty sure the spell they cast for the dream just consumed them too

[edgy river]

So I guess not

[craggy smelt]

the shamans die, they leave behind their empty shells

[lucid dirge]

yes its not even a contest

[edgy river]

Oh I didn't notice it

[lucid dirge]

PALE KING 4 LIEF

[maiden meteor]

Pharloom was corrupt from its very creation

[shy island]

I mean wasn't hallownest kinda shitty in its own way

[narrow glacier]

Prime Pharloom made you an indentured servant at the courtesy of the weavers.

So yeah Hallownest was waaay better

[edgy river]

So they sacrifice themselves to help hornet

[lethal burrow]

I think it seems likely, we now know that void searches out and consumes anything with soul. and the kingsoul is it an infinite source and it seems like the king himself is heavily associated with soul.

He even said it himself "void, yours is the power opposed."

[lucid dirge]

it really wasnt

[lethal burrow]

sort of but not as bad

[shy island]

damn so the eternal kingdom wasn't just pk bullshitting

[lucid dirge]

if hallownest didnt repeatedly get fucked by lifeblood and the radiance it wouldnt have been bad at all

[edgy river]

By a longshot

Pale king was actually trying to make a kingdom that was nice to live

[lethal burrow]

maggots

[lucid dirge]

THEY DESERVE IT #FUCKMAGGOTS

[honest anvil]

the problem with hallownest is that it was too bold and stretched too far. the pale king strove to rule over too much and paid the price

[lucid dirge]

I TRUST IN THE JUDGEMENT OF MY ETERNAL LEADER PALE KING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[narrow glacier]

Hallownest was “shitty” because of things not directly related to Hallownest

[maiden meteor]

btw how the hell False Knight controlled armor

[shy island]

wait what happened with lifeblood in hallownest
I know it's like in the abyss and it infects stuff like the abyss or other infections but I didn't really saw much of it while playing hk

[lucid dirge]

really long stilts

[maiden meteor]

these maggots are hiding something

[shy island]

did pk sealed it or sum

[lucid dirge]

pk outlawed it and in ss we find out it was for a very good reason

[maiden meteor]

he just outlawed it

[lethal burrow]

nothing so drastic.

[narrow glacier]

He outlawed/forbade it

[lucid dirge]

he branded it as heretical

[shy island]

I see

[lethal burrow]

"taboo"

[edgy river]

He was kinda nice to whoever was already there at least. He did alliances with mantises and mostly just let the hive alone

[lucid dirge]

YES MY GLORIOUS PALE LEADER GLORY TO HALLOWNEST

[shy island]

how many higher beings are there now that we know more with ss?
like 5? 6?

[lucid dirge]

HOORAH

[honest anvil]

i wonder when in the timeline he outlawed it because hornet is already very familiar with lifeblood infections
presumably she saw what happened and what eventually resulted in the pale king having to outlaw it

[maiden meteor]

SS only introduced 1 afaik

[narrow glacier]

Radiance
Pale King
The White Lady
Unn
Grand Mother Silk

[lucid dirge]

we have like ...6-7....

[narrow glacier]

Am I missing any?

[neat sandal]

lifeblood happen in silksong just because one dude overspread it

[maiden meteor]

infection probably happened post-HK

[lucid dirge]

nightmare heart

[shy island]

wasn't the nightmare heart a higher being too

[edgy river]

Deepnest was a different story but from what I gather Deepnest was specifically antagonist against Hallownest and he wasn't even doing much to them

Maybe the construction of the trains but idk what he was thinking with that one honestly

[narrow glacier]

Right him

[lethal burrow]

unn, radiance, pale king, white lady, grand mother silk, nightmare heart, shade lord(?), life blood entity (maybe?)

[lucid dirge]

since we are counting dead gods we should count the gods of thunder and rain

[maiden meteor]

PK just really loves trams

[lethal burrow]

We don't know how many they're were though

[lucid dirge]

he really just wanted them to be less hostile and gave up immediately 😭

[maiden meteor]

like all of the trams in Hallownest serve no economical purpose

[edgy river]

Treins and buzzsaws. The dude has hobbie

[honest anvil]

we don't know if thunder and rain are true higher beings. they probably are but godseeker doesn't seem to think of them as such

[narrow glacier]

Looking back on it, that may have been one sided due to the weavers. Bad history with Pale Beings and all. Probably had unnecessary beef with the Pale King because they couldn’t see past it

[shy island]

why did pk build a tram to connect the abyss to deepnest to the kingdom's edge
Like why build a thing to transport people to 3 of the only areas you don't want people in

[narrow glacier]

For himself

[maiden meteor]

also Crossroads-Grounds tram could just be a walk

[honest anvil]

maybe for himself? or for hornet? like that's a long way to travel especially for royalty

[shy island]

couldn't he like walk or sum
lazy king smh

[lethal burrow]

godseekers have shitty self interested criteria.

"those guys weren't even that cool anyway" (coping that their gods are all dead)

"we are very desperate gruz mother is a god why not"

[edgy river]

Tbf hornet had to go from Deepnest to hive and ancient basin was kind of on the way

[maiden meteor]

They basically collected everything stronger than average bug

[shy island]

didn't they used big boys from hallownest to reach actual higher beings and that's why there are bums like gruz mother in the pantheon

[maiden meteor]

and put them in dogfights

[edgy river]

That one makes kinda sense if he build it after hornet, if not..... Huh... Idk

[lethal burrow]

they call them gods anyway they could've not done that

[maiden meteor]

Why bother with bureaucracy

[shy island]

I think most of the early life hornet stuff flew over my head tbh

or maybe I'm just not there yet

[maiden meteor]

Just slam “God” on everything and roll with it

[honest anvil]

just call everything a god and then if it dies take it back
whoever wins the tournament becomes god of gods

[maiden meteor]

“Alluring” on Flukemarm is a bit too much tho

[lucid dirge]

they probably just got desperate after their gods just died 😭

[shy island]

cooked

[lucid dirge]

oh my god bruh FUCK YOU @gleaming basin

cunt

[honest anvil]

it is a robot

[lucid dirge]

it has to know

okay?

[shy island]

chat what's the lore behind the two guys that make me throw darts in the marrow that look like ladybugs

[valid compass]

What

[lucid dirge]

speaking of are those guys just dead at the start of act 3 😭

[narrow glacier]

That guy has the best verbal lines in the game

[honest anvil]

they're just having fun

[edgy river]

Idk what he was thinking with starting ANOTHER train in Deepnest tho. Where would it go? Pharloom? There isn't any more Hallownest area at the left of Deepnest so it would be a new area I guess

[edgy river]

They like darts

[honest anvil]

the pale king, trying to extend his kingdom even further? where have i heard that one before

[shy island]

are they like part of trobbio's circus or

[valid compass]

Was the white palace moved from ancient basin into dream or did it always exist in dream?

[honest anvil]

it was moved

[valid compass]

While I ask this question I realise how tf would they 'move' an entire castle into dream

[edgy river]

He could have expanded it anywhere else that wasn't Deepnest tho. He could make a train in queens gardens going left or whatever

[craggy smelt]

magic

[honest anvil]

how would they build a castle in a dream in the first place

[shy island]

so the kingdom had their leaders living just ontop of Literal Fucking Hell™ and they were chilling with it

[edgy river]

Maybe there is something to the left of Deepnest specifically that interested him? We will probably never know. But it was a shitty idea anyway

[valid compass]

The white palace held a comically large dreamnail and dreamnailed the entirety of hallownest to enter into dream

[edgy river]

Moved probably. Likely the reason every fortniture has white cloth as well

But we really don't know

[shy island]

where did the dream nail even come from

[honest anvil]

moth

[valid compass]

Moth magic

[shy island]

moth more like mid amirite

[valid compass]

So hornet visited the white palace while it was still physical

[edgy river]

Maybe radiance as a god of dreams moved it to dream world actually to make it harder for anyone to get to the pale king?

Idk if it's confirmed PK himself moved it to dream realm

[honest anvil]

no PK definitely did it

[craggy smelt]

this reminds me - PK had a lore tablet where he says 'no blazing kin, only one light shall shine against the dark'
basically saying he was going to rule without Radiance
in light of SS lore, I wonder if he set up Hallownest where he did because of some larger long-term plan to keep an eye of the Void in the region...

[shy island]

If PK could move the whole palace to the dream why couldn't he just move himself and beat the shit out of radiance there

[craggy smelt]

she was stronger than him, otherwise he probably would have

[valid compass]

He wasn't high enough

[shy island]

was she

[edgy river]

How could PK use dream magic?

[craggy smelt]

well, he can enter the dream realm and bring his palace with him

[edgy river]

Did he have a friend on the inside?

[craggy smelt]

and he had Rad trapped in THK for a while anyway, he could've just gone in after her, but he didn't

[shy island]

I have friends inside my head they're called thoughts

[edgy river]

Maybe the moths have him dmth similar to dream nail?

[shy island]

fraud alert

[valid compass]

Some moths stopped worshipping radiance right

[edgy river]

When they were worshipping him?

Yeah, that makes sense

[high violet]

Pale King was a chill guy

[honest anvil]

he was a pale being with access to a kingdom's worth of information, we don't know the extent of his power but we know it was a lot. even if he couldn't do something himself he could hire people to do it/research it

[shy island]

pale king more like pale mid

what even is a pale being

[craggy smelt]

god-jerks

[honest anvil]

that's the hollow knight question

[high violet]

Melanin lacking individuals

[honest anvil]

if we could answer in full and with certainty what a pale being is and what that means we would have way less lore questions

[shy island]

hollow knight 3 pale knight

[bleak mauve]

has Pharloom being mentioned anywhere in HK?

[craggy smelt]

not by name, but the Weaversong charm mentions the Weavers left hallownest for their 'old home'

[dapper willow]

wait wait wait
LACE HAS NEEDOLIN DIALOUGE?

[bleak mauve]

really? how could you trigger it tho?

[lucid dirge]

she gets stunned during it

[craggy smelt]

but does Lost Lace...

[dapper willow]

idk
I saw a video of someone playing the needolin to lace while she was stunned

[lucid dirge]

no the needolin stuns her im p sure

[dapper willow]

yeah but its hard when she wants to stab you

[lucid dirge]

spider strings should help

[gusty vapor]

It stuns her briefly, and theres a rumor that doing it too much makes her cry

[dapper willow]

oh no

I don't like that rumor its too sad

[bleak mauve]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3gFV9dpOD8

damn i feel bad for Lace now

[narrow glacier]

It legit paralyzes her

That crazy.

[serene belfry]

same for phantom

[dapper willow]

Its too sad man
Emotional KO

[narrow glacier]

GMS probably “sang” whenever either of them acted up. Forcing them to comply

[serene belfry]

phantom's is almost sadder she talks about how she was neglected and asks hornet to free her

[dapper willow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJdIb3H7wBE

[timber pond]

Lace is kind of like a hollow knight in a sense. As in made of silk.

[dapper willow]

Her voice is so beautyful

[serene belfry]

real

[dapper willow]

why did team cherry had to make this so sad

[bleak mauve]

never forget they made us kill the fixer bug in HK

[gusty vapor]

Who

[bleak mauve]

https://youtu.be/0XDiWYFGGqY?si=B0E9wHmYcFd5aUi1&t=4188

this one

[scenic stirrup]

Am i misunderstanding? i thought lace was made so gms could absorb her

And become a pale being

[deep elk]

Watching Mossbag after Silksong is so interesting. I'm currently watching the snail shaman video and he said he had no idea what the heck Shellwood is lol.

[scenic stirrup]

[bleak mauve]

use the help channel btw
but you can find them in the top right most corner of greymoor

[cursive sinew]

...lace was made by gms

[scenic stirrup]

Ye

[deep elk]

Lace was made to be like a daughter no?

[winter iris]

GMS wanted a silk daughter.

[cursive sinew]

Why would she spend the silk just to absorb it

[deep elk]

What's another 17 years

[winter iris]

Silk went to great lengths to keep Lace alive as long as possible.

[scenic stirrup]

She wants to have pale powers

I thought lace is like an artificially created pale being

Im dumb

[deep elk]

She kinda is no?

[winter iris]

GMS is a palebeing already I think.

[bleak mauve]

GMS not a pale being

or as far as the game indicates

[scenic stirrup]

I thought thats why lace is like really hostile to hornet because she wanted the real thing instead of like whatever the fuck she is. And i think gms never really conveyed how much she loved her so she didn't understand

She wanted to absorb hornet instead of lace

Thats my understanding but am i wrong 😭

[bleak mauve]

"A bug born entirely of thread. Much Silk would have been needed to see her sustained. A fragile form of life, but life nonetheless."
this is what Hornet talked about Lace, so she also not pale being but rather a "Silk being" if that a term

[scenic stirrup]

Theres one ending where gms absorbed hornet and became one

[winter iris]

became what?

[scenic stirrup]

A pale being

[winter iris]

Can I see the ending?

[narrow glacier]

Yes she is. The game calls her one multiple times

[scenic stirrup]

https://youtu.be/wCco3Rjc6bM?si=-0c4Zo_H-Sl51dAf

Its the second one

[craggy smelt]

yowza, for a second that bottom-right one looked like a very weird smiley face

[dapper willow]

its a cut ending as far as I understand

[honest anvil]

gms is definitely a pale being
but no gms made lace because she wanted a loyal daughter. better a loyal daughter spun wholly of silk than none at all

(the non-loyal 'daughters' are the weavers, who promptly set about sending their 'mother' to sleep for eternity. she wanted a daughter but did not want them)

[narrow glacier]

Hornet straight up calls her pale being multiple times. And in the most recent dialogue I can recall, she says to the green prince something akin to “You were caught beneath a Pale Beings. Devotion or Destruction are the fates my kind only allow”

[ember musk]

was this one of those weaver built lights?

[narrow glacier]

So she even compares GMS to herself as a Pale Being

[dapper willow]

where is this?

[ember musk]

cradle hidden room on the right

the architecture looks similar to weaver nests and mount fay

[narrow glacier]

GMS seemed to be a pretty “strict” parent. So much that the weavers had to create ultra authoritarianism to get other bugs to build a city for them. So much that whenever Lace hears her music she uncontrollably snaps to attention

[ember musk]

and also what are the corpses in this room?

[neat sandal]

yeah. it is widow place
you can play needolin

to see

[ember musk]

ooh yes yes

[ember musk]

where did you take this from? the lace snapping to attention to her music i mean

[narrow glacier]

There’s a video posted earlier of what happens when you play the Needolin during Lace 2 fight. She literally snaps to attention and can’t move for a few seconds and has to break free with a parry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3gFV9dpOD8

[atomic lance]

I am pretty early in Act 3, having just escaped from ||The Abyss||, and the ||snail npcs or whatever|| are calling Hornet ||Old One|| now, like she is a ||Pale Being||. What did I miss that prompted this, and what exactly are they implying about Hornet?

[honest anvil]

they're implying she's a pale being, because she is one

[ember musk]

hmm this does look different from when hornet uses this on regular enemies, but is this gms's music?

[narrow glacier]

Hornet as daughter of the Pale King has always been a Pale Being.

She’s also probably older than everyone in the game barring GMS herself

[atomic lance]

No spoilers, pls

[narrow glacier]

Yes much different. The other enemies are singing along. Lace is paralyzed

[honest anvil]

daughter of wyrm and weaver
wyrm is a pale being

[ember musk]

barring gms? impossible, the weavers fled to hallownest where hornet was born AFTER gms took over

[atomic lance]

Oh yeah I guess but aren't all the "siblings" spawn of the pale beings?

[narrow glacier]

By that I mean everyone left alive. We don’t really see any living Weavers.

[narrow glacier]

Yes Pale and Void melded into one

[ember musk]

i do agree and its a fair interpretation but i think this is the default melody hornet plays here, there has to be a tie between that and gms no?

[atomic lance]

*shades

[honest anvil]

the vessels are... strange, and something else. but hornet is a pale being, or at least half of one, and has acknowledged herself as one for the entire game

[ember musk]

wym we dont see any living weavers arent widow and first sinner still alive?

[narrow glacier]

I’m saying that the base Needolin is GMS’ song. Since it comes from Widow who is channeling GMS’ silk.

[atomic lance]

What, when was the first acknowledgment that you remember?

[ember musk]

that could make sense, hornet binds widow afterall

[atomic lance]

I dont recall any casual acknowledgment of her being a Higher Being

[narrow glacier]

I almost forgot about Widow on that front. But we don’t know how old she is. Or if she’s full or part weaver.

First Sinner is contentious on whether she’s alive. I’m gonna go with not, since we fight her in a dream battle

[honest anvil]

when you set up the trap with the caretaker, he talks about how dominance is the way of 'her' kind, meaning GMS and Hornet both. hornet then acknowledges that that part of her is active, even if she wants to resist it

any time somebody refers to hornet as a monarch or queen or anything along those lines, it's in reference to her pale heritage

[atomic lance]

True, I overlooked the implication

[ember musk]

is it to her pale heritage? i thought it was to weaverkind

i mean everyone seems to talk with negative connotations about weavers even shakra

[honest anvil]

nope, the weaver thing is referenced in the same conversation and is described as something different

plus we already know higher beings love dominance that's like all we ever see them do. they just make kingdoms

[ember musk]

yeah

but if thats all i dont see the reason for most bugs talking shit about weavers

like i assumed they were the ones in power and werent so good at it

before gms took over

[neat sandal]

weavers is the one create whole shitshow at citadel

[honest anvil]

the weavers were in power, but they were the puppet queens under the god of GMS. the weavers are the ones who built the citadel

[ember musk]

you mean pulling the strings literally and figuratively?

[atomic lance]

Fuck, maybe it's just been a minute for me but Pale King and Hera (?) where both pale beings, so where did the "void" come from to make the shades? And how does Hornet have a shade within her cocoon if she is (presumably) the actual progeny of Pale King and Hera, both white beings, not void?

[honest anvil]

herrah, and we do not really know what the shade in the cocoon is

also herrah was not a pale being, she was a Weaver

[ember musk]

i really dont think its a shade its just some black particles i think, they dont behave like void particles either

[neat sandal]

no. they literally built it. the slave system, the citadel,... to prison GMS

[ember musk]

oh then yeah thats true

oh wait

[atomic lance]

Ok hang on I remember more and Im more confused

[ember musk]

to prison gms?

wha do you mean by that

[atomic lance]

Hurrah is the spider who wanted a daughter in exchange for something

Being a sleeper iirc

[ember musk]

i thought gms takes over the whole citadel and establishes the slave system and enslaves weavers too

[neat sandal]

to sing a song, to put her asleep

[honest anvil]

it's very easy to miss, but mask maker discusses it

[atomic lance]

The "white lady"...was a pale being, a void being, or a tree???

And she made the shades?

[ember musk]

oh damn i missed this

[ember musk]

pale being

[honest anvil]

the white lady is a pale being who seems to be in some kind of tree form, and she is the other parent of the vessels

[craggy smelt]

she is also called a Root

[neat sandal]

alot of people missed
so it kinda annoy me when go to reddit and see everyone blame GMS

[honest anvil]

unfortunately i don't believe that dialogue plays anymore once you activate act 3

so it's got a pretty small activation window

[ember musk]

but gms must have been a terrible monarch no?

[neat sandal]

don't know.
no proof for it
only heard it from weavers

[honest anvil]

GMS didn't interact with the commonfolk like the pale king did, the Weavers ruled

[ember musk]

if the weavers would go to such lengths and then some and still leave their home when all fails

[narrow glacier]

1. GMS makes the weaver via the ascending the pharlids
2. GMS make the weavers serve her
3. Weavers try to run away/escape
4. Weavers enslave other bugs to create the citadel and its system
5. Weavers use the citadel to imprison GMS

[rugged sigil]

those small white bugs are souls right so some lanterns just having them trapped is kinda fucked

[ember musk]

by the first thing you mean the cutscene from defeating first sinner yes?

[atomic lance]

I gotta watch hollow knight lore vids again. I wish Vaatividya (sic) made HK lore vids. Elden Ring lore is beyond played out imo

[narrow glacier]

Yes, that’s how the Weavers were made

[valid compass]

Was the first sinner the first one to defy gms

[ember musk]

yes ofc

[neat sandal]

well. people can go many lengths to claim power for themselve
for fleeing part
I think even GMS fall asleep, she can still haunt people
that why weavers flee cause they fear her will revenge

[robust wagon]

Whaaaaat this is massive lore that I completely missed

[vast shadow]

Guys how did the abyss got involved in act 3

[ember musk]

shamans make a portal thingy that ensnares gms and the void seeps through her threads of silk that are all over the kingdom and now the void is everywhere

[atomic lance]

I think HK and Silksong lore is more interesting than Dark Souls lore. Am I crazy?

[robust wagon]

No

[ember musk]

lowkey hk/ss lore is so much more complex and faceted

[rugged sigil]

first one to spread knowledge of the weavers origins i think

[vast shadow]

So who's the one hanging void silk everywhere in act 3

[honest anvil]

i know nothing about dark souls lore but we don't need to pit two bad bitches against each other they can both be good

[valid compass]

Bro what are you smoking

[rugged sigil]

the preexisting silk gets corrupted by void

[ember musk]

so the slab must be one of the oldest places in the kingdom if it was built around imprisoning first sinner i assume

[vast shadow]

O

[narrow glacier]

To further elaborate

6. Bugs of the citadel worship silk and the weavers and start implanting themselves and others with it. (White ward)
7. This gives GMS a back door into the people of Pharloom to start the haunting
8. Weavers run away again
9. GMS makes her “daughters”
10. GMS starts hunting down weavers using her haunted silk cultists
11. Silksong happens

[neat sandal]

no. she rejected weavers being divine
so you could think other weavers punish her cause that

[rugged sigil]

do we know who sealed away the widows ability to make silk?

[narrow glacier]

Probably Lace

[ember musk]

for 6, i think in whiteward they were doing experiments to make shells live beyond their life with silk, in fact there is a piece of dialogue somewhere where someone is convicted for the crime of "refusing to be revived" in whiteward also talked about by some lace2 dialogue

[neat sandal]

Probably other weavers cause widow loyal to GMS

[rugged sigil]

makes sense

[narrow glacier]

Yeah Silk has amazing regenerative and longevity properties

[atomic lance]

Is it? I think it's about the same in complexity, but what draws me in to HK/SS is the how much more lore is invested in humanizing these bugs' struggle in saving their societies, whereas Souls lore is more focused on the aftermath of civilizations destruction

[narrow glacier]

It’s basically the fountain of youth to an extent

[rugged sigil]

what made lugoli disgraced

[atomic lance]

He was serving boogers

[untold gorge]

i think they made nasty slop from killing people

[ember musk]

i dont think thats it, given the crime of apostasy and "she called us daughters, she called us divine, she lied" its pretty safe to assume she just didnt fw the whole slavery

[narrow glacier]

I think it goes

Silk cult starts up
GMS starts the haunting
Turns the people of the citadel on the weavers
First Sinner gets imprisoned

[rugged sigil]

was it feeding people maggots or smth

[untold gorge]

which is too far, in the civilisation where they cut open people and put silk in them and also slave them away and

[ember musk]

askin the real questions here

[rugged sigil]

explains the pickled muckmaggot kinda

[valid compass]

Is the reason we fight her husk is because she wasn't granted absolution or is she just full of spite

[narrow glacier]

Yeah, she was locked away until the end of her life (and then some). Her dream/memory probably remained due to her strength and rage

[rugged sigil]

her mask is probably just damaged

wait are you guys asking about first sinner?

[atomic lance]

First Sinner's fate gave me heavy Outer Wilds: Echoes of the Eye vibes

[narrow glacier]

As we know strong enough beings dream/memory can stay around for a while. (The whole heart quest)

[valid compass]

For real

[untold gorge]

is her mask really damaged i think in the flashback where the pharlid get turned she still had the sharp bit to her mask

[ember musk]

but wait if thats it wouldnt it be in tc's best interest to make first sinner a heart aswell?

[narrow glacier]

A heart?

Oh yeah, you mean for the quest

[ember musk]

yeah like karmelitas or any of the other hearts in the game yea

[narrow glacier]

Nah, I think she should have come with a silk heart

We should have 5 instead of 3 IMO

[untold gorge]

the heart is mostly reserved for people who led an empire at some point ( and nyleth i guess )

[urban zephyr]

My suspicion is 2 things
I get the impression that until the weavers escaped GMS's clutches, there were still weavers enthralled to GMS, this is why some weaverdens talk about them being out of reach of the pale being, her reach doesnr extend that far. So i think the first sinner must have been the first to rebel against the idea of GMS, and some weavers probably may have had a hand in locking her up before they realized. (Questionable. The cage around her maybe is of citadel design? So idk about this)

That said, she probably also sensed hornet's mix of weaver and pale being heritage. She likely either didnt trust us, or maybe she just wanted to test us, but by the end of the fight i suspect she saw hornet's resolve and sense of will that extends beyond GMS's influence and was willing to offer her power

[atomic lance]

Where on Pharloom is Karmelita Santiago?

[rugged sigil]

all of the other hearts are from entire civilisations/groups that where screwed over by gms/the citadel though

not just an individual

[atomic lance]

(jk I have a pretty good idea where she is)

[ember musk]

hmm is the verdania one like that?

or nyleths, i dont really see what you mean here

[honest anvil]

first sinner is powerful but she is not a) on the same level as the twin princes/khann/nyleth, and b) she is also post-GMS, where all four of the hearts are pre-GMS

[rugged sigil]

it was an entire kingdom that is now gone and nyleth made all of shellwood which i assume shrunk after her death

[ember musk]

aah makes sense

[rugged sigil]

yeah also the hearts were the civilisations in pharloom before gms appeared

[untold gorge]

with how industrial the citadel is nyleths nature probably got crushed by all that

[honest anvil]

like nyleth is the progenitor of the entire shellwood forest. that's a really big deal

[ember musk]

yea thats true

[rugged sigil]

its literally seperated by the grandgate elevator so probably

[rancid dew]

Don't support Nyleth. She created Grey Root and the horrifying babies probably.

[urban zephyr]

I think the hearts of one individual, but their power comes from the memories of the height of their power and the resolve that gives them
Nyleth's comes from when shellwood flourished fully
Karmelita's was when she was well and the skarr kingdom was united
The crust king's was before their kingdom was lost to sand and decay
Green prince's was before verdania was ruined due to their foretold curse

[valid compass]

The fact that shellwood still persist even with her gone

[rugged sigil]

i also think she might be a similar entity to isma being plant based life forms that look pretty similar

[rugged sigil]

greyroot was in bilewater not shellwood

[honest anvil]

grey root is in shellwood the baby is in bilewater

[rugged sigil]

ohh mb

[ember musk]

i was thinking more of unn parallelisms

[rancid dew]

Yeah, the babies flourish all over, but the baby area is all taking over by roots as a visual hint.

[rugged sigil]

yeah i doubt nyleth is a higher being though

[narrow glacier]

The roots might just be parasites and settle wherever they can….well take root

[ember musk]

most likely not yeah

[rancid dew]

I don't know if higher beings would have a physical heart in the same way. Certainly not a heart that's the equivalent of some big crab guy's heart.

[untold gorge]

does grey root have some sort relation to white lady like is there multiple roots type creatures

[honest anvil]

i imagine if she was a higher being it would've come up

[untold gorge]

eye wise and aesthetic wise they seem a bit similar

[honest anvil]

lots of plants have roots

[rugged sigil]

idk they just look kinda similar

[untold gorge]

and in the cursed ending the roots absorbed everything so they're not pushovers

[rancid dew]

Maybe. She's the pure version, as she's white roots while the other is grey. White Lady is a higher being though. They both have propogation instincts, but that could be a plant thing too.

[ember musk]

hmm maybe

[untold gorge]

yeah but white lady and grey root seem to be very distinct from all the other plant creatures

[rugged sigil]

being able to kill a pale being is no joke especially since weve only seen void kill higher beings apart from the greyroot

the fanon interpretation especially looks like her

[rancid dew]

To be fair, it could be because it's melded with Hornet. Hornet's heritage could be doing the higher lifting.

[rugged sigil]

and both of them in death still effect an entire area

[honest anvil]

but it's strong enough to keep a hold on hornet indefinitely

[untold gorge]

normally the parasite was ment to already absorb and kill hornet but hornet state that her unique complexion allowed her to survive

[rugged sigil]

it kills hornet too though

[rancid dew]

Sure, but Hornet got injected with it. And she's only half-wyrm.

Hornet is the halfway. She has the potential to kill gods and even absorb them. But she can also die to bonks from a random idiot.

[rugged sigil]

idk it just feels like being able to meld with a pale being after being considerably weakened is still very powerful

it being called the rite of rebirth leads me to think the greyroot used to be way more powerful and the bud is just it after being heavily weakened

[untold gorge]

it completly ravaged everything the moment it absorbed hornet and gms

[honest anvil]

whatever the parasite is it's very powerful
likely on a similar level to the heart-wielders, if i had to guess

[rancid dew]

Rite of Rebirth indicates that it's a cycle. We know from Pavo's dialogue that there have been twisted buds in the past.

This is probably a thing that has happened multiple times, creating a new grey root being each time. Someone brings them a bud, gets their neck snapped, the plant propogates.

They just usually die, while Hornet is strong enough to resist it for a time.

[untold gorge]

what i dont get is how did hornet even get moved across to that chapel like when you return to grey roots house shes dead and stuck in the exact pose she was when she grabbed you

[hard belfry]

what do we think about the snail shamans? did they worship void or soul?

[honest anvil]

they're seemingly infatuated with power, whatever its source

[rancid dew]

They used to. The Caretaker indicates they were avoiding the gaze of their god.

[untold gorge]

the abyss areas have alot of snail shell so they could be related to those ancient void guys

[rugged sigil]

i have a theory that they descend from the ancient civilisation bcs they use void and the ancient civilisation is confirmed to use soul by the soul totems

[hard belfry]

I took that to mean they were avoiding the gaze of gms

[rancid dew]

I don't think so. They talk about her differently. She's not /their/ god.

[honest anvil]

i also thought they were talking about gms

[hard belfry]

yeah i think so too, especially since both abysses are filled with spirally shells

[untold gorge]

i used to think all the dead snail shaman in HK 1 died in goofy way but after seeing the shit they pulled in silksong which just ended up them dying for red memorys spell i guess it make sense

[true flax]

What do we know about weavers? Were they used and abused by pharloom?

[rugged sigil]

also them saying their family's fixations or smth i forgot when reffering to void maybe means their ancestors were even more knowledgeable

[neat sandal]

maybe parasite move hornet to that place

[rancid dew]

They were uplifted from common spiders by Grandma Silk, and became the upper hierarchy in Pharloom's Citadel. They were used and abused by GMS, but Pharloom itself treated them like divine envoys.

[untold gorge]

dragged her unconcious body across all of shellwood slowly then took a nap in the chapel

[rugged sigil]

unrelated but they didnt intend for the world to be messed up that was just due to lace and gms struggling to save her cqausing trwemors

[urban zephyr]

My assumption is greyroot moved her there using her roots, and then whatever finall thing she did to us expended her life to awaken the bud further. She is basically a tree after all.

[true flax]

Ohh yeah I figured so, except the part when they got uplifted

[untold gorge]

yeah but i like how they're like lets build a void nuke and not tell hornet about it 🤫

[rugged sigil]

was it gms or other weavers that trapped first sinner for apostasy

[rancid dew]

We have no idea 😄

[rugged sigil]

bcs she seems mad with gms but i dont think she would care that shes telling people weavers originis like weavers would

[honest anvil]

if gms wouldn't care then why would she tell the weavers they were her daughters in the first place

[neat sandal]

no need. maybe there is shortcut between greyroot house and that place

[rancid dew]

Through the roots.

[untold gorge]

oh wow i guess i missed that one how does it look on the map

[cursive sinew]

errr lemme just point out this is most likely just a Hollow Knight 1 artistic choice because Ari seemed to love that shape back in 2017. The Silksong Abyss draws a lot from HK's just so it matches the way it looks.

[toxic acorn]

Guys I have a question
||we know GMS looked for Hornet and other part weavers for a reason idrk yet, probably an heir? But back in Hollow knight, we see a weaver after acquiring weaversong. My question is: why didn't the guys at the citadel look for that fully fleshed weaver? She would have been more efficient than Hornet||

[gilded ivy]

||iirc, weavers were considered extint in Hallownest, also it's possible that they also were for her||

[lapis geode]

Maybe that weaver is better at hiding herself

[toxic acorn]

||they were not here for the weaver, in one of the commandement thingies it says "the daughter of the White Wyrm. Go retrieve her" or something like that||

[toxic acorn]

||then she must be REALLY GOOD, like Pharloom knows of the weaver's descent but not the weaver themselves?||

[timber pond]

Hornet has the ability to generate Silk within her Shell because she is a Cross between a pale being and a weaver. (Pale King and Herrah)

That is why

[toxic acorn]

Oh alr
||then it must mean the other part weavers whose cage we see in the cradle must be part pale beings too right?||

[timber pond]

Not necessarily, cross between Other strong beings and weavers? yes (though Few and far between,becaue weavers are practically infertile due to how they came about)

There arent that many

Like 4 or 5, and hornet is like the only Half Weaver

[safe acorn]

||Maybe they just didn’t find him?
I always presumed it was just a case of “they found hornet first”||

[toxic acorn]

So hypothetically we could have a Half Root half Weaver Pharloom could be interested in
Nice

[timber pond]

No, hornet speceficaly is special. Remember how kingsoul generates soul automaticaly, and how weavers create silk Instantaneously?

The Combonation was always there.

[gilded ivy]

I have a question about what is behind the "apostaty" door: ||why the Fisrt Sinner fight us? And if she was evolved by the god of Pharloom, why is she jailed?||

[timber pond]

And that is a power GMS wants

[toxic acorn]

The question of how did they rven know there was a half wyrm half weaver in the dying kigndom of Hallownest is a whole other can of worms

[safe acorn]

Their handy “find the wyrminator 9000”

[timber pond]

||Grandmother lied. She said they were her children. They were merely just evolved Pharlids in reality. The weavers angered by this, Trapped her within a system in the Citadel. presumably Silk broke free at some point, and had all she could find executed and captured.||

[timber pond]

Silk presumably could sense where the weavers had gone

[storm maple]

the "findthefuckingspiderprincessator 3000" /ref

[gilded ivy]

I mean, she was the princess after all, surely she is famous since she is kinda like a political figure

[toxic acorn]

Then by that logic we go back to my first question, which is how they didn't find the weaver we see in hk

[teal finch]

my headcanon/theory is that they somehow found out that weavers were in hallownest and continually monitored it from there. i forget the dialogue exactly or if it something in the code itself but the thing on top of mount fay is meant to be a communication device of some sort iirc, which probably meant that weavers did communicate w weavers elsewhere

[safe acorn]

Don’t forget the “locatethenearestorphanedchildwearingredinator 1000 patent pending”

[storm maple]

How is GMS related to the weavers?

[safe acorn]

They both have S in their name

[toxic acorn]

Grimm child: nervous sweating

[timber pond]

That weaver she would have executed. Weavers cant generate silk out of nothing, they can make it fast but they need material. They wanted hornet specifically because She can generate Silk within her shell infinitely due to The Pale Kings Lineage.

[storm maple]

The most useful and iconic lost and parentless child tracker!

[gilded ivy]

ok I missed that, thanks :)

[safe acorn]

Grimmchild game comes next on god

[teal finch]

that, or there are weavers who did secretly continue to serve gms. we know widow did so maybe there were weaver double agents

[timber pond]

She made them

[storm maple]

Atp i think they have grown to the adult form (since SS passes after HK events)

[toxic acorn]

Oh okay
So the other part weaver captured must have had a similar power
I wonder if only Wyrms have that power

[storm maple]

Oh cool

[timber pond]

Mabye? who knows what the 1/8th weavers and 1/4th weavers had. She tried captureing them and subsuming them it seems. But i dont think they were good enough

[toxic acorn]

Locatethechildinredbutnotgrimmchildinator-9000

[timber pond]

The First Sinner is the first weaver

[storm maple]

What if we mix void and wyrm DNA? We get Void2? God2? Satan2?

[timber pond]

The Vessels are that dude lol

[toxic acorn]

No we have root too

[storm maple]

They arent? Im sure that vessels are just shaped void into a shell

[timber pond]

The white lady and the pale king droped thier eggs into the abyss.

To make them

[storm maple]

She is a wyrm? Oh

[toxic acorn]

Nah she is a Root

[timber pond]

Well shes a pale being, but the pale kings genes are also in those eggs

[storm maple]

So hornet just killed millions of her fetus sinblings

Hornet is THE goat

[timber pond]

Thats why hornet kind of looks like the vessels, because the vessels are what children of the pale king/ white lady ook like

[toxic acorn]

Yeah she did

[timber pond]

nah most of them died at birth lol

[toxic acorn]

And she has nothing of the weavers esides the red cloak
Dad's genes are really strong

[storm maple]

i know lol

[timber pond]

Nah shes tall and spindily like them

[storm maple]

She is literally half of both

[timber pond]

Widow is a weaver that had her mask removed

[half shuttle]

spider wryrm

[toxic acorn]

Yeah but THK was really slender and thin too...

[timber pond]

she looks like both, not as tall ,but very spindily and thin

[jade wigeon]

Yo so in the true ending even tho hornet doesn't have the flower the || knight saves them from the void and surfaces them right?||

[timber pond]

not as chunky as vessels

[half shuttle]

sherma is the pale king

[jade wigeon]

Wow the kni||ght ||is the goat

[storm maple]

It is true im his instruments

[timber pond]

Jokes aside. Sherma for new king of pharloom post game

Real

[storm maple]

He would give a good leader

[half shuttle]

hes like absolute purity

untainted

[glossy badger]

I think you missed the point

[storm maple]

"Guys lets sing because, uhhh... We can and that is it!"

[half shuttle]

it is true song

[toxic acorn]

Do ri ma la so ri met🗣🔥

[timber pond]

I genuniely think there is no one else, unless hornet wants to rebuild lol.

[storm maple]

sherma is the god of song and he fuses with hornet to form the god of silk and song

[half shuttle]

sherma is actually the knight but purified 😱

[toxic acorn]

Post silksong Quirell comes back to explore
Trust he is not dead

[storm maple]

Sherma is quirrel in disguise

oh well

Why is the hk so tall

[half shuttle]

hes grown

[toxic acorn]

-White mask
-absolute goat
-big thing on his head

[storm maple]

maybe they have a life cycle and he is like, an adult?

and the knight is just a fetus

[glossy badger]

The game critiques monarchy and "ruling over a kingdom"

[half shuttle]

quite liteterally

[rose atlas]

I think its more about the theme of True Ending being the removal of monarchies/unjust power systems

[toxic acorn]

It is said in the Hunter's journal that thk is a vessel grown to maturity

[glossy badger]

And the theme of community and communes in this game

[half shuttle]

silksong dlc where hornet kills other overrulling deities like nightmare, etc to bring a new order to the hk universe

[storm maple]

so it will be a city developed by DEMOCRACY and hornet and sherma are the presidents, and they form the SILK and SONG duo because hornet is a weaver and sherma sings

[timber pond]

Yeah well someone would need to Coordinate between them. I didn't mean ruler in a literal sense lol.

[toxic acorn]

So based

[storm maple]

this game and fandom is so doomed

[half shuttle]

what if sherma turns evil and becomes evil sherma and evils

[timber pond]

the comunites that is

[storm maple]

Hornet beats him up

[half shuttle]

nuh uh absolute sherma solos

[toxic acorn]

What if Hornet's Wyrm side takes over and she spends all the budget on buzzsaws

[storm maple]

They put on a never ending fight between SILK and SONG

[storm maple]

LMFAO

[half shuttle]

buzzshaws*

[rose atlas]

Part of unlocking true ending is building these small independant communities that can flourish now GMS is gone. I like the idea that post-TE there is no "Pharloom" as such, each of the settlements you helped build are their own thing

[ember musk]

BRO WHAT IS THIS

[half shuttle]

absolute sherma

[storm maple]

this is literally what happens in hk and ss

[toxic acorn]

Wait where is the doomed yaoi in ss did I miss something

[half shuttle]

if the game took place immediately after true ending hk the first boss would be slightly weakened pure vessel 🙏

[toxic acorn]

AH THE DANCERS

[glossy badger]

I hope all the bone bottom survivors make it to bellhart

[timber pond]

Also Lost verdania in act 3

[rose atlas]

Hk is a game about fatherhood, therapy, and doomed yuri, skong a game about motherhood, the plight of the working class, and doomed yaoi

[toxic acorn]

Bro I haven't even found a key to free the green prince

[storm maple]

xenophobic mantis kills the lesbian mantis, the girl from place court gets sad(forbbiden doomed yuri) and in ss it is one of the dancers dies trying to stop his country from colonization (anti-colonization doomed yaoi)

[glossy badger]

And homophobic weaver kills the green prince 💔

[teal finch]

theres more doomed yaoi once you do this

[rose atlas]

Yeah the "havinf to reinstall the game" groal runback is kinda wild

[teal finch]

is all i will say

[toxic acorn]

Loves LOSES

[storm maple]

this is the WOKEST game in history

[half shuttle]

💔

[storm maple]

silksong makes it real

[glossy badger]

Female main character in my hollowknight?

[half shuttle]

no

[toxic acorn]

I mean a woman is the protag what's with the forced diversity

[half shuttle]

dawg its a fucking spider

[storm maple]

WE ARE... SILKWOKE !!!!

[toxic acorn]

A spider who uses SHE HER

[rose atlas]

Shaw/her

[half shuttle]

spider shmider

[teal finch]

pronoun knight silksong

[toxic acorn]

She/he dido

[half shuttle]

i wish u could customise which vessel mask to use in hk

[storm maple]

Genderless hybrid fetus on my hollow knight?!?!?!?

[glossy badger]

The knight is mixed you're not allowed to call them a hybrid

[toxic acorn]

Hollow knight if it was WOKE
PRONOUNS Knight
TRANSGENDER pale King
Zemer
WOMAN Hornet

[half shuttle]

MAKE HALLOWNEST GREAT AGAIN 😡

[storm maple]

Shawk Shawng for the goty

[humble iron]

They'mer

[toxic acorn]

Sheo-mosexual

[storm maple]

Isnt hybrid mix between species?

[storm maple]

Theyo-moxesual

[half shuttle]

hes a mix between more than species bro

son of a tree and worm

with a bit of goo in him

[humble iron]

Mix between clades

[safe acorn]

Don’t forget zote

just zote

[humble iron]

Zote is our saviour he's so straight

[storm maple]

Okay, Genderless fetus with mix between 3 gods? IN MY HOLLOW KNIGHT?!

[toxic acorn]

Zote is zotesexual

[humble iron]

Real

He loves himself

[safe acorn]

Technically true he’s a narcissist so

[storm maple]

The 67 precetibpis

what abt the silksong lore tho

[toxic acorn]

Banama boptis🗣🔥

[toxic acorn]

It's too woke for us

[storm maple]

Ugh, oh... YES! THE POWER!!! THE WOKE!!! FINALLY- NO! NO! IT'S TOO MUCH, NO, NOO!!!!

[toxic acorn]

And I mean, both final bosses? SHE/HER users? What have we come to???

[teal finch]

silksong passes the bechdel test

[storm maple]

and the first boss is a MOTHER?

[toxic acorn]

And the only explicitly male God DIES? What kind of masculinity rep is that???

[storm maple]

When did they let TC put so much REPRESENTATION in my BUG GAME

[toxic acorn]

They're putting chemicals in the soil that turns the bugs gay

[storm maple]

Lets boycott the goty so some random AAA ahh game wins over it

[toxic acorn]

BOYCOTT SILKSWOKE!

[storm maple]

if silksong loses the awards im gonna break the concept of time-space and rewrite reality

[toxic acorn]

Me too but as a French I can't help but root a little for expedition 33

[storm maple]

idk i have never seen anything abt it

[toxic acorn]

There is an official art that is a crossover with it and silksong ^^

Hold on lemme find it

It was made by one of the developpers!

[vague whale]

GOTY has such little credibility tbh

[storm maple]

yeah

[toxic acorn]

Idk, I only knew about it throught expedition 33 lmao

[storm maple]

anything wins it BUT the good game nowadays

[toxic acorn]

Yeah because the good games(silksong) are WOKE

[torn pumice]

is silk just soul given form?

[open dragon]

If we learn anything from Hollow Knight and Silksong,

All the siblings, The Hollow Knight, Little Ghost and Hornet all have daddy issues

While Lace has severe, SEVERE, Mommy issues

Oh god wait, Hornet has BOTH severe Mommy issues too

She has 3 of them

[storm maple]

at least at the end GMS sacrifices herself to save lace from the void

[teal finch]

it has little credibility until the game i like gets goty then it means everything

[storm maple]

she gives hornet silk almost enough to cross the void lake

[open dragon]

I hear GMS crying after Hornet defeated Lost Lace, like she thought Lace was dead

She may be a bad mother to Lace but at least she cares

[rancid dew]

To be fair, Lace isn't exactly a great daughter either.

[open dragon]

True aswell

The Silk Family just having issues all day every day lol

[rancid dew]

Baby hornet is a treasure though. Protect for life.

[storm maple]

Everything around silk is problematic lol

Song, is not

stick to song and abandon silk

[open dragon]

If Silksong is so good, where's Silksong 2?

[storm maple]

Hornet abandons pharloom and goes to nearloom, then she ascends even more to kill grandfather song

[rugged sigil]

found lace

[storm maple]

and then in act 3 she goes to the summit (instead of abyss), and finds full/all (instead of void)

[deep elk]

Were these always called Shadow Creepers?

[rugged sigil]

she finds the neverbloom to resist the full

[lucid dirge]

yea

[storm maple]

there are hk channels for that

[open dragon]

Seeing them without the orange eyes in Silksong feels so cursed lol

[deep elk]

Interesting.
Idk why, but I thoght they were renamed to that in Hornet's hunter journal.

[rugged sigil]

good for them

[open dragon]

Speaking of, i love that Act 3 just becomes Hollow Knight 2 lmao

[deep elk]

I specifically posted them here to compare it with Silksong.

[rugged sigil]

the entire game has you ascend and then act 3 just says nah fuck you go back down

[storm maple]

The void creatures are different from place to place

[deep elk]

True lol.

[rugged sigil]

what singular percentage are you missing

[rancid dew]

Nah, I do the Mister Mushroom quest 🙂

[storm maple]

maybe the influence of the dead fetus bodies changed the ambient

[storm maple]

idk

[rugged sigil]

oof

[deep elk]

So the mawlurk species seems to be more so related to hallownest than being in the world.
Makes sense since we only see the shadow creepers in abyss rather than just ancient basin.

[teal finch]

do u have farsight so u can kind of check what youre missing at least

[storm maple]

yeah

[rancid dew]

Should be easy to find out.

[rugged sigil]

did you get the last pale oil?

[cyan herald]

Thats an awesome idea

[teal finch]

what the hell the real mister mushroom

[vague whale]

please stand up, please stand up

[deep elk]

Imma go explore the Abyss in both Hallownest and Pharloom. I wanna see the differences. :3

[rugged sigil]

the corpses

[deep elk]

Lol true

Also, that does remind me.
We don't see siblings until deep down in true ending cutscene.

[jovial trail]

Why didn’t the weavers try to stop GMS by killing thousands of babies smh

[deep elk]

😭

[rugged sigil]

maybe they just followed the knight when he came to help

[deep elk]

Yea.

[rancid dew]

Such a caring brother.

Glad they're still getting along so nicely.

[rugged sigil]

virgin beta male weavers vs sigma male child killing pale king

[deep elk]

wait can someone send a screenie here of their journal entry in silksong?

[deep elk]

The vessels don't really have a gender btw. :P

[rancid dew]

Which means I can choose to use whatever unless they tell me otherwise :3

[rugged sigil]

the knight non binary icon

[deep elk]

The game only ever uses it/they pronouns for them. Mostly it.

[rugged sigil]

they cannot tell you anything

[rancid dew]

Exactly. The perfect crime.

[deep elk]

Ahhhh I don't have float 😭

[spiral swift]

It is actually one of the knights many nicknames too, it's nice

[jovial trail]

It’s funny that the vessels are non binary bc they are literal corpses

[vague whale]

corpse swag

[neat sandal]

vessels is a tree

[hard belfry]

I'm still confused about the significance of music in silksong lol. I get the silk stuff but what does music have to do with it all

[cedar skiff]

the song is used to keep gms sealed

or like sleeping

[hard belfry]

Thought she was controlling everything. and whos sealing her

[rugged sigil]

half tree

[cedar skiff]

well the weavers and later the citadel bugs kept her sealed

[jovial trail]

Yeah that’s because they screwed up and she woke up

Well she didn’t fully wake up but she was able to mess around

[rugged sigil]

i think its implied the weavers used the lyres to put gms to sleep

[rancid dew]

They play music using silk. String music.

[rugged sigil]

not sure also the citadel uses music to show faith

[hard belfry]

yeah but theres bells everywhere and all sorts of other instruments

[rancid dew]

And yeah, music is woven into everything.

It's cultural.

[jovial trail]

I still don’t understand why there are some many bells, did the bells count as music for GMS?

[rugged sigil]

the threefold melody was so peak

[spiral swift]

I heard a theory once that the reason everything sings is because they all have some silk in them and that basically forces a response to the needolin, exactly how accurate is that

[rancid dew]

It's not.

[hard belfry]

that sounds cool though

[jovial trail]

They probably sing bc it’s cool

[rancid dew]

People without silk in them also sing.

Shakra sings for example.

[hard belfry]

theres a few who dont sing though

[jovial trail]

Also Pavo reluctantly sings in act 3

[hard belfry]

shakras tribe also have a singing culture though

[spiral swift]

Damn. I was mostly asking since the plasmium guy just stops singing when he's fully overgrown when I'm pretty sure he sings originally

[rancid dew]

The snails also sing without silk in them.

[jovial trail]

I mean most cultures have singing tbf

[rancid dew]

Also Lace won't sing, and she's made of silk.

[rugged sigil]

lace does sing