sk-lore

[spring escarp]

Chill

[brisk finch]

Oh I didn't get that vibe, I was just stating my contentness

[spring escarp]

Rent her bellhome

[dapper willow]

hollow knight 3 is going to be a Pharloom basebuilding game where you are tasked with rebuilding the kingdom

[tropic arrow]

I have to ask, for the princes, do yall think they are a soulmates situation orrr..?

[spring escarp]

Real estate

[jovial trail]

I would play that ngl

[dapper willow]

Would

[grand kayak]

They were gay as shit

[brisk finch]

Soulmates, although nature can be very nature-y

They were def gay, yes

[tropic arrow]

no one is debating that part

[spring escarp]

Yes astronomically gay

[brisk finch]

It's why I said it second

[edgy barn]

They are asking if they were twins

[brisk finch]

Which is what i responded to first

[spring escarp]

Which is good for a mantis cause the females kill you after you climax.

[edgy barn]

It's that whole discussion over again

[brisk finch]

I don't think they were, I think they were just a one in a million pairing

[cedar skiff]

no seriously always bet on epilogue dlc. there was nothing to see in hallownest after the knight saved it and fucking disappeared but our playable character in silksong is still alive and kicking and has many friends

[gilded beacon]

Green Prince? More like Gay Prince

[tropic arrow]

pretty sure this is partially myth, but I digress

[brisk finch]

I think there's less tragedy and romance if they were twins like
oh they did everything together? no shit, siblings often do, incestuous or nit

[jovial trail]

Bugs from the same species look very similar tbf, like all the pilgrims look the same

[brisk finch]

I've been calling the second prince Lover Prince lol

[spring escarp]

Well they inherited oen kingdom

[spring flame]

Oh nvm, figured I could just use a save editor to set my crest to the cursed one, so i could see what it was. Thanks anyways!

[brisk finch]

We have nothing to go off otherwise

[tropic arrow]

to be fair, royalty often does what royalty does best

[grand kayak]

This is actually not always true. Mantis females only kill their mates when they are in a stressful situation and feel they need more resources. The reason this was thought to always be the case is because praying mantises being observed through glass by scientists were always stressed

[brisk finch]

ooooh

[brisk finch]

I know, I live in a monarchy

[cedar skiff]

also we never saw couples of the same species before

so its a play on that i guess

[spring escarp]

The citadel being built is stressful

[edgy barn]

they aren't meant to look the same in-universe. the clover dancers DO look the same.

[brisk finch]

Hold it, Old One! That intruder writhing within your shell... Our ritual ain’t gonna work while that cruel creature’s present. We’d be tugging at its memories as much as your own.
Then free me of the affliction. Surely you have the skill?
Not for this! Our power’s all of soul and that thing’s all physical. You’re gonna need more traditional tools of healing.Seek the one exiled from Bellhart, little Yarnaby. She was chased out into those soaked moors, last I heard.She’d have the tools for the task, and the cunning to have survived till now.

[brisk finch]

No they do, Hornet calls it out

[grand kayak]

They became kings after they hunted the pale stag together. Presumably its like a king Arthur thing where if you kill the stag you get to be king

[edgy barn]

Wait she does? when?

[tropic arrow]

Yeah I think that's what they were saying

[spring flame]

Oh, i can save this for later. thanks!

[tropic arrow]

For one to love another so similar to themselves, is that selfless or vain?

[spring flame]

really wanted to see what this interaction was

[spring escarp]

Apparently snail shaman will refuse the everbloom but I can't find any details

[tropic arrow]

Hunter Journal ^^

[cedar skiff]

oh fucking damn and i was wondering if theres a cursed true ending last week

[spring escarp]

To see if it will kill them or they just don't want it

[edgy barn]

oh that. I was talking about the pilgrims

[brisk finch]

[cedar skiff]

that thing having own memories is fucking terrifying

[brisk finch]

Hornet refuses to dive, even if you get there

[grand kayak]

Kinda mean thing to say from hornet there

[edgy barn]

they look the same in gameplay but not in-universe

[cedar skiff]

any dialogue for that??

[dapper willow]

its so cool how team cherry made absolutely sure you can find Yarnaby

[spring escarp]

Its gay

[brisk finch]

If I’m to dive, and cut this land from its black thread curse, I must first find means to extract the intruder within.

[spring escarp]

And hornet is homophormic.

[cedar skiff]

I saw people complain about twised child because "they didnt know what to do"

[brisk finch]

No wait!

[brisk finch]

The parasite writhing within my shell has a violent aversion to the void. Despite the protection granted by the Everbloom, even now I can feel those wretched roots preventing my descent.If I’m to dive, and cut this land from its black thread curse, I must first find means to extract the intruder within.

[spring escarp]

why

[jovial trail]

I wonder if someone found the witch ending accidentally bc they didn’t care to find yarnaby, probably unlikely but hey there were 500.000 people playing the game so maybe

[brisk finch]

The shorter one is the repeat dialogue

[cedar skiff]

DAMN.. this is crazy lore for that thing

[brisk finch]

AVERSION TO THE VOID

[cedar skiff]

it must be a higher being then if that wasnt clear by now

[tropic arrow]

No?

[cedar skiff]

with a fucked up method of reproduction/keeping itself alive

[tropic arrow]

How does "aversion to void" mean higher being

[spring escarp]

The greyroot has void aversion

[brisk finch]

I don't think it's that per se
Buuuuut
it can physically prevent Hornet from doing anything

[cedar skiff]

most higher beings have void aversion

[spring escarp]

This is interesting... might be just team cherry not willign to make a whole as sending

[brisk finch]

And it has no such aversion to GMS

[spring escarp]

true...

[cedar skiff]

i mean i guess its not a certainty but its interesting for this thing

[brisk finch]

It's def that, but they gave it a reason so a reason it has

[spring escarp]

But most living things have void aveesion

[tropic arrow]

living beings have aversion to void in general

[narrow rapids]

is greyroot a higher being

[cedar skiff]

or like, not direct aversion but more fear

[jovial trail]

Greyroot has some weird stuff going on, def not a regular bug

[dapper willow]

nooo

[cedar skiff]

because they know it can fuck them over

[tropic arrow]

so it's curious that it doesn't physically prevent Hornet from having it removed

[spring escarp]

not a bug

[brisk finch]

It may not understand that

The machine is too abstract, the void is Not

[narrow rapids]

obviously not a bug hornet literally says that 💔

[tropic arrow]

It understand when Hornet gets captured

[spring escarp]

Well it isn't removed.

It is just changed.

So maybe it knew it would be fine.

[cedar skiff]

it never gets fully removed

[spring escarp]

Maybe it will bite hornet ass back

[cedar skiff]

it just gets weakend enough for hornet to take control

[jovial trail]

Yarnaby just poke holes into it and turned it into a crest

[cedar skiff]

thats how fucked up it is lol

[tropic arrow]

you get what I mean when I say "removed"

[spring escarp]

Abortion suceeded

[cedar skiff]

no i know but i find it interesting anyway

[brisk finch]

I love the Alien movies

[tropic arrow]

I am curious btw

[cedar skiff]

like that thing is crazy fucked up

i guess yarnaby is just the goat

[tropic arrow]

There is a ton of NPCs. How many are dead by the end of the game?

[spring escarp]

Yarnaby doesn't give a fuck about lifeblood heh

Funny

[tropic arrow]

Also, Sammy, you seem knowledgable, I have a question

[spring escarp]

If you do the regeneration build thing on lfieblood and keep adding lifeblood masks, what happens?

[tropic arrow]

Regarding Seth, does he re-appear with his memories gone after his defeat, or after you defeat Nyleth in the memory?

[spring escarp]

Easier to aks which aren't.

[jovial trail]

You get an overdose, actually true btw, and your masks get fucked up

[spring escarp]

No i mean after that

And you keep adding more

[brisk finch]

He appeared for me only after beating my third heart (Karmelita) (no princes at that point)

[spring escarp]

Does that change anything?

[brisk finch]

It does not seem related to Nyleth, although I haven't checked what the spawn condition is
I'm not actually that good at tech stuff XD

[tropic arrow]

I was asking mostly because I doubt it's a coincidence if he reappears with no memories after Nyleth being defeated specifically

[brisk finch]

I have seen reports of needing at least two hearts, possibly 3

[brisk finch]

Did not work for me, I had killed Kharr, then Nyleth, then went to check

[tropic arrow]

I see

No particular implications then

[brisk finch]

I can see where you're going with that, but ye his spawn condition seems odder than that

[slender meteor]

You'll just restore 1hp normally like you would with bind

[tropic arrow]

I am mostly trying to figure out what, exactly, the consequences of having these hearts taken will be

[jovial trail]

I never pieced that together lmao, when he reappeared with amnesia I was like “ig I hit him in the head too hard”

[tropic arrow]

We are taking them from memory, from powers already gone, yet snail shamans are hesitant about it, saying they do not want to see these powers fade

[spring escarp]

Seth Goldman reincarnated in Pharloom.

[dapper willow]

secret good ending

[tropic arrow]

So I am trying to figure out what powers, exactly, are fading when we do this

[spring escarp]

Shrimple. : )

[brisk finch]

I hope it doesn't turn out in the dlc that we didn't need to kill Green Prince for a fun fight

[tropic arrow]

Surely the extra heart will have a purpose in DLC

[brisk finch]

Because in game, there is actually 0 reason to do that

[brisk finch]

Not sure, as it gets turned into a memento

[spring escarp]

They'd have to amake a new memento.

[jovial trail]

It’d be funny if it really was just to hang it on your room

[brisk finch]

The actual reason appears to be to

1. give the player an out if one of the 3 (ahem karmelita) is too tough
2. give an excuse to keep verdania in the game

[tropic arrow]

Like, yes, green prince dies, but the way the shamans talk about it, there is more far reaching consequences.

Like, what, exactly, is the consequence of taking Nyleth's heart, when Nyleth is long gone and we take it from memory?

[spring escarp]

Also I ended up with the coral guy heart

[brisk finch]

If you only have 2 hearts+prince and do the ritual, you can still do the fourth boss and keep that heart

[spring escarp]

Nah I want sick twin hearts as decocration

[brisk finch]

otherwise green prince's will always be the memento/extra

[spring escarp]

Eliminate that gay bug

[jovial trail]

A lot of The stuff from act 3 seems to be content that was almost cut, I wonder if act 3 as we see it in the game wasn’t planned until later in development

[brisk finch]

I did it for the palestag and clover dancers fights and ye, I wanted the gays

[spring escarp]

I got the coral guy and like

Nothing against the coral guy

[brisk finch]

We see the Abyss in the announcement trailer, sort of

[spring escarp]

But not as cool as a twin heart

[brisk finch]

And we know it was involved since early in dev from the maps

[tropic arrow]

Speaking of, hold on a sec

[brisk finch]

+the void cult stuff from the first map may be about the snails (alternatively: teh steel soul mode folks)

so I think that was established early on

But the memory stuff may have been a later addition, yes

[lime nova]

What's different about the game in steel soul?

[jovial trail]

Yeah but maybe having Pharloom be consumed from the void wasn’t thought then(?)

[spring escarp]

Is lace naked

[brisk finch]

two new npcs, and a new quest leading to a new boss, Summoned Saviour, a void blob with vessel masks

[jovial trail]

Perma death and an extra boss/quest

[spring escarp]

Is all that part of her

[brisk finch]

We can't know that

[spring escarp]

the legs and helmet

[tropic arrow]

So, was this thing always void, and they just disguised that fact in the trailer, or did it get repurposed for the abyss some time down the line?

[spring escarp]

Idk the hole thing... it looks voidy to me

[brisk finch]

My guess is always void, abyss was already on the map

[jovial trail]

It fits with the idea of act 3 having repurposed cut content

[lime nova]

Oh interesting. Is that boss fought after Lost Lace?

[brisk finch]

Behold, steel soul exclusive boss

[brisk finch]

No, you do a quest to get the assistent of a being like steel soul jinn back
that person summons this to fight you

it's an evil fight lol, i cant do it for sure

[tropic arrow]

pretty sure it's accessible act 1

[lime nova]

Whaaaat

[spring escarp]

Why fight him just for shells

[slender meteor]

Yea but what could've been the purple goo for... Like where would it fit

[spring escarp]

What are the stellhearts

[brisk finch]

you get an item that gets you basically infinite shells+ it's an exclusive boss
fun

[spring escarp]

mej

[brisk finch]

I think they just recolored a stock attack
there's plenty ogf enemies in hk who do that in orange

[jovial trail]

That quest is so random, I wonder if it was added as teaser for DLC

[brisk finch]

I;m hoping it was to tease Sharpe and the gang, yes

[jovial trail]

Sharpe was backer content so it has to get in right?

[lime nova]

Honestly at this point I think we can just call Hornet a Higher Being

[acoustic holly]

Guys are pale beings more powerful than higher beings

[spring escarp]

https://youtu.be/OgLKX-QV6uI

[brisk finch]

Yess, unless the backer asked them not to for No rreason

[acoustic holly]

Hornet is a higher being in the way the knight is

[tropic arrow]

Worst case scenario is that backer requested Sharpe be cut

Best case scenario is that they were simply cut from the initial release, and will be released later

[jovial trail]

She def at least half higher being

[spring escarp]

yes

[lime nova]

Kinda

[spring escarp]

So far

[acoustic holly]

How

[tropic arrow]

she isn't a god, she is a demigod. Simple as that

[acoustic holly]

Well the weavers have something special with them

[spring escarp]

All the pale beings we saw so far mogs the rest

[acoustic holly]

well are there other higher beings in the game

[tropic arrow]

we don't know how exactly, but the game seemingly always uses pale as a distinction

[spring escarp]

Unn

[brisk finch]

To put it in Greek terms: she;'s the kid of Zeus and a nymph or something

[acoustic holly]

Silk song

[spring escarp]

Radiance

[jovial trail]

Grayroot maybe but probably not

[tropic arrow]

although now with Palestag and Lace explicitly being referred to as "pale one" more than once, Pale beings aren't necessarily higher beings

[spring escarp]

And huh... others

[acoustic holly]

Is the radiance a pale being

[spring escarp]

Well i think they meant pale literally

[tropic arrow]

No

[spring escarp]

In this case

[acoustic holly]

Are there other higher beings in silksong tho

[spring escarp]

Lace is pale but not pale pale.

[tropic arrow]

I think neither HK nor Silksong usually uses pale like that, and given Lace is the construct of a pale being, it fits

[tropic arrow]

Grand Mother Silk is the only one we know of in Pharloom

[spring escarp]

I find it insteresting how being whiter makes you a higher being in team cherry eyes.

[gilded beacon]

What if the Green Prince is a cricket

[jovial trail]

Does this mean that deer was some sort of higher being?

[tropic arrow]

the point is that the deer is proof that pale beings aren't necessarily higher beings

[acoustic holly]

The deer isn’t real

[spring escarp]

Nah otherwise how would the gay mantis capture it

[tropic arrow]

that's debatable, not confirmed

[spring escarp]

Albeit it was hard to capture

[arctic mountain]

the deer didnt get enough sunlight

[spring escarp]

Nobody gets sunlight in hallownest or pharloom

[tropic arrow]

there isn't sunlight even in the surface bruh 🥀

[spring escarp]

what you on

[acoustic holly]

But I feel like In hollow knight the higher beings seemed to be as strong as pale ones

[tropic arrow]

Is there even a sun in this fictional world? Asking the important questions here

[spring escarp]

We don't ever se the sun except on a fekout

[gilded beacon]

They were busy playing Silksong

[sinful nimbus]

The deer A) isn't real and B) isn't called a pale being

[brisk finch]

yes, the radiance 😄

[jovial trail]

I wonder if there just isn’t a sun or there’s something else preventing sunlight from getting to the surface

[spring escarp]

The mushroom bent over, unn disappeared, the moth cried and was nearly ignored

[brisk finch]

Sister of the Hornet analog, daughter of the big bad

[spring escarp]

White lady opened her branches tot he pale king

[arctic mountain]

maybe if these bugs got sun they wouldnt be so depressed all the time

[tropic arrow]

A is debatable, not objective fact, and when it's called "Palestag" and "stag touched pale", I would assume it to be a pale being, and that pale beings aren't necessarily higher beings

[wild zinc]

Well of course there’s no sun we killed the radiance last game

[acoustic holly]

The mushroom is not a higher being, and unn disappeared before pale king

[cedar skiff]

wow this image sucks

[wild zinc]

No yeah im pretty sure the stag isnt real

[spring escarp]

Unn shows up in game and the mushroom is a high being i think

[tropic arrow]

It is left ambigious whether the stag is real or not

[cedar skiff]

i know its a joke but the person who made it couldnt even come up with actually good shit

[wild zinc]

The hunters journal clarifies it’s a myth made reality by the princes memories

[spring escarp]

there is the mightmare heart but idk its power

[tropic arrow]

it is not outright confirmed or implied to not be real

[gilded beacon]

The Radiance is the key,
Have you ever seen a depressed AND infected bug? Think about it

[arctic mountain]

im inclined to believe the palestag might be some sort of higher being because how long was the green prince locked up

[acoustic holly]

The mushroom is not a higher being just a big one and unn hid not because of the radiance or pale king

[tropic arrow]

And there is this too

[arctic mountain]

verdania is implied to die a very long time ago

[tropic arrow]

This guy has seemingly not aged a single day, and seemingly survives without water or food despite being a regular bug

[acoustic holly]

Also are the memories dreams or time travel

[spring escarp]

Asgore is a higher being

[tropic arrow]

neither. They're memories.

[arctic mountain]

some sort of cursed immortality (until hornet rips his gay heart out)

[wild zinc]

Why does everyone in the hollow knight universe live for a million years

[jovial trail]

No, but the truck is

[brisk finch]

Fabled first Cloverstag of Verdania's wilds. Commands the grass and leaves to aid its attack.

Myth made real in memory. The creature seemed completely at one with the flora around it. Did it ever truly exist as I have seen it?

Verdania has been gone so long it's explicitely been forgotten lol, ofc she has doubts. It's possible it didn't have attacks irl

[acoustic holly]

So dreams

[spring escarp]

They live like 2 months tops what you mean

[wild zinc]

They’re like dreams im pretty sure

[tropic arrow]

memories =/= dreams

[brisk finch]

Void, they're gods, or silk in their shells

[cedar skiff]

does anyone have the phantom journal entry i cant find it anywhere

[spring escarp]

Hornet is 12 years old

[acoustic holly]

The dream nail encompasses memories too

[gilded beacon]

Maybe he was immortal and his lover wasn't and that's why it became a robot

[brisk finch]

Mournful creature tasked alone to expel the Citadel's choking refuse. Their talent with a longpin is unmatched.

Though grey with age, their frayed form suggested a being strung from Silk, one who welcomed a decisive end in combat over a slow decline.

[spring escarp]

It didn't beocme a robot

[tropic arrow]

Dreams can be memories, sure, this doesn't mean they are one and the same

[gilded beacon]

Also why is Green Prince caged? Is he a sinner?

[jovial trail]

I wonder if the memories were in the dream realm, memories and dreams seem close enough

[spring escarp]

It was a mold, not a source amterial for the robots

[arctic mountain]

yeah i def think the hunting of the palestag affected the princes

[brisk finch]

he "became a robot" in a trade with the Citadel for the sake of Verdania

[spring escarp]

Why everyone says he became a robot

[tropic arrow]

it's the only real explanation for why the Prince can seemingly survive without food and water, and not age, so I agree

[acoustic holly]

The dream world is an all encompassing term for the inside of the mind most of the time, the dream nail literally let you go into memories originally

[brisk finch]

I put quotes around it

[gilded beacon]

Mb, even then that didn't do shit Verdania is super dead

[spring escarp]

I think he was just used in the process to make the robot

[brisk finch]

The dancers... they were the last free act of my partner... Always hopeful. Always naive.His whole he gave, in desperate trade to see our own caves left safe. His shell and soul became the mould.So long, I dared not visit... Even as our lands fell to thread and ruin... Instead I wasted, a coward caged, too weak to witness his grace bound in parody so cruel.

[arctic mountain]

he was so depressed he couldnt die something something cruel tragedy

[spring escarp]

And a diisposable to

[brisk finch]

That's the dialogue that says what happened to the cogwork dancer

[spring escarp]

mould

[wild zinc]

I mean the princes heart can also be used to access hornets memory so I guess he’s as powerful as the other three guys

[spring escarp]

See? You use the mould to do a thing, the thing is shaped by the mould but isn't the mold.

[gilded beacon]

TC always be making gay immortal characters with dead lovers

[spring escarp]

People reading skills are abysmal

[acoustic holly]

Yeah

[tropic arrow]

that hasn't stopped Khann from dying seemingly of age, and Karmelita from aging

[sinful nimbus]

Being called pale doesn't make you a pale being as the term is used in game

[tropic arrow]

I would argue that, depending on context, it can

[spring escarp]

I don't know if karmelita is dying from age

[wild zinc]

Nyleth is also dead so I guess you have a point

[acoustic holly]

Karmelita reminds me of Vespa in the way that both are like 8 times larger in the future

[spring escarp]

Also she is bigger

[acoustic holly]

That’s what I mean

[tropic arrow]

We dunno why Nyleth died

[sinful nimbus]

Nothing in this context indicates it to be so

[acoustic holly]

Are the heart bosses higher beings?

[spring escarp]

I think all of them clearly died becaus eof the citadel

[tropic arrow]

Give me a single other plausible explanation for why the Green Prince hasn't aged and can seemingly live without food and water, except the only explanation we even have a single hint for, that being that they were somehow altered by this special creature

[wild zinc]

No they just seem to be powerful

[arctic mountain]

since its implied green prince and his lover literally shared the same soul its possibly that since his lover became the cogwork dancers, his soul might have also been affected by the transformation

[acoustic holly]

or I guess higher beings in the way that pure vessel and nkg are

[spring escarp]

One way or another, verdania charred, karak became a desert... and so on...

[brisk finch]

No, just powerful entities from Pharloom's past

[lime nova]

The Steelhearts seem extremely tied to void. I'm curious if the DLC will be about them

[wild zinc]

Shellwood still standing tho so I guess nyleth won out

[sinful nimbus]

He is far from the only example of characters living prolonged amounts of time without any clear form of sustenance

[spring escarp]

Maybe part of their share dsoul was burnt on the process of making the robots

[acoustic holly]

Lowkey the game is very Grim looking since all the areas are decayed

[wild zinc]

Oh and the ant tribe is still going so I guess karmelita could’ve gotten it worse too

[gilded beacon]

Most likely, either that or Plasmium Update

[sinful nimbus]

idk why we're assuming he was altered by this myth

[brisk finch]

It appears Nyleth kept everything in control, without them we get the current situation

[jovial trail]

The steel soul guys seem to be very void adjacent in general, that’s very exciting

[arctic mountain]

grey mourner literally a ghost with a physical body because she was so gay and refused to fully vanish from this world

[spring escarp]

Yeha oen them also summons a void creature, maybe they are void constructs.

[tropic arrow]

Far from the only example, sure, but it hasn't changed that others from his time do age, Karmelita is clear proof of this, and nothing in particular suggests Green Prince would be an exception

[brisk finch]

ye, Hence the Summoned Saviour

[tropic arrow]

Palestag is a neat explanation for why

[acoustic holly]

Is nyleth a higher being? She seems very unn like

[spring escarp]

real

[brisk finch]

the exception is that he's royalty and gay

[gilded beacon]

Grey Mourner? More like Gay Mourner, am I right?

[wild zinc]

Im so sad they cut out the steel assasins out of the final game

[jovial trail]

Wait why is Ogrim still alive

[brisk finch]

Can't have been fully cut, backer character

[spring escarp]

gay mourner gay dancers gay painter

[sinful nimbus]

Nothing about palestag is indicated to do this

[brisk finch]

Determination

[spring escarp]

real

[sinful nimbus]

You might as well have said the leafbugs did it

[tropic arrow]

I feel like being royalty does the exact opposite for lifespan

[arctic mountain]

what wouldve killed ogrim

[spring escarp]

It is the LAW

[brisk finch]

Not in HK 😉

[spring escarp]

backers are cannon

[sinful nimbus]

Karmelita is a different species also

[gilded beacon]

Taking a shower would end him imo

[cedar skiff]

imagine your backer character results in a whole fucking dlc

[jovial trail]

Why is the butler guy at the citadel still alive and not consumed by silk?

[brisk finch]

Also I remember when one of our princes was deadly injured, they absolutely kept that guy alive much longer than a peasant would've been
There's few things money can't buy, and royals have a lot of money at their perusal

[wild zinc]

I wonder what’s gonna be the lore of the steel society

[brisk finch]

Maybe he's not a descendent of Citadel bugs, ergo less silk in the shell

[tropic arrow]

The point is that the princes, nor Karmelita, are a higher beings or something like Greyroot. Special bugs, sure, but not beings where we have reason to believe they can life without sustance and don't age. I find a plausible enough possibility for why the Prince hasn't aged, so I'll take it.

[arctic mountain]

dung defender vs soap

[sinful nimbus]

Its never at all indicated that Green Prince doesn't need sustenance or doesn't age though

[gilded beacon]

Instant death

[brisk finch]

He was in a tiny cage with no one to care for him

[jovial trail]

Being in a cage for a long long time

[tropic arrow]

We can tell with our own eyes that he hasn't aged, he has been around as long as Karmelita, and we can tell with our own eyes that he was in the tiniest cage known to man with no one caring for him

[brisk finch]

The Slab has the implication of food being available
His cage does not

[acoustic holly]

Whats grey root

[sinful nimbus]

He could've been starving

[brisk finch]

Greyroot=the witch who curses you with Baby

[acoustic holly]

The witch is a higher being?

[brisk finch]

Based on the situation, he would've been starving for much longer than most can survive

[tropic arrow]

Does this guy look or act like he is starving to you?

[arctic mountain]

he still wouldve died by age tho wouldnt he?

[brisk finch]

No

[sinful nimbus]

We do not know the average lifespan of his species or how long they can go without sustenance

[gilded beacon]

Then you gotta get an abortion

[acoustic holly]

I would e thought the roots were maybe

[arctic mountain]

if he wasnt immnortal

[jovial trail]

I wonder why they put an enemy royal behind a lock that can be opened with a key that can also open 4 other doors

[sinful nimbus]

How would I tell

[brisk finch]

I did, after fighting big mama

[acoustic holly]

Honestly yeah prince might be special

[gilded beacon]

Or boredom most likely

[brisk finch]

He had no desire to escape

[sinful nimbus]

Quirrel goes for a long time without eating in his comic but up until he says "I haven't eaten for a while" no one can tell the difference

[tropic arrow]

The idea of a... not common, but also not that special bug, being older than the citadel itself, is past my point of suspension of disbelief, for how long one can survive without sustenance, and for not showing signs of aging

[spring escarp]

The green prince is green, the other guy is brown, that is sus

[gilded beacon]

I think that Green Prince is a cricket imo

[spring escarp]

brown prince

[jovial trail]

Probably something with the monomon mask

[arctic mountain]

cricket or mantis

maybe grasshopper

[acoustic holly]

Yeah alot of quirrels power is augmented by the mask

[spring escarp]

well grasshopper i guess

[tropic arrow]

Especially when others as old as him do show signs of aging

[spring escarp]

since we saw mantises before

[sinful nimbus]

No?

[brisk finch]

I think the Prince is just like that for myth reasons

[acoustic holly]

With out the mask quirrel is probably just good with the nail like to the level of the nail masters or pintress level of skills

[arctic mountain]

i like mantis tho because it implies mantis in the HK universe have a tendenacy to be gay (green prince, his lover, and traitors daughter)

[brisk finch]

he's from a land of myth

He's become a part of it

[tropic arrow]

And I am taking the myth like reasons, for why he is the way he is

I don't see something wrong with that

[brisk finch]

Princes are just Like That

[sinful nimbus]

HK had ridiculously old bugs too its not that weird

[sand tapir]

Silksong lowkey pretty bad. Its too dragged out and is very anti alluminim. Wish they developers were more caring of the game.

[brisk finch]

He has to wander the lands unaging while his love is still trapped and his kingdom unknown, and when his task is done he may finally die

[acoustic holly]

So is there only one higher being in pharloom being grandmother silk

[tropic arrow]

where we have reasons to believe they live that long, or they are shown to be that special. Again, I don't even think I am making some far reaching assumptions here

[arctic mountain]

green prince's fate is pretty greek tragedy, i bet if he even wanted to kill himself he couldnt

[jovial trail]

Probably, well now there’s also hornet

[brisk finch]

Exactly

[acoustic holly]

Obviously not counting hornet

[sinful nimbus]

Ogrim, Ze'mer, and Dryya aren't supernatural and they lived a long time

[arctic mountain]

he's cursed

[sinful nimbus]

Green Prince is the same

[arctic mountain]

heck his heart is still beating

[sinful nimbus]

Him being altered by something to live longer is completely unsubstantiated

[acoustic holly]

I mean they’re definitely very powerful ogrim may not be super natural but the other two sure are

[brisk finch]

Too literal

[sinful nimbus]

No?

[gilded beacon]

I think cricket, because of their habit of seeking couples by making noise by rubbing their legs, and what do both Green Prince and the Cogworks Dancers in their fight?
Hit their partner's arms making noise as if "they found a mate"
(I'm coping so hard trying to make this character a little less depressing)

[acoustic holly]

I think the knights of hallownest were just really powerful

[sinful nimbus]

Tf did dryya do to be considered supernatural

[acoustic holly]

Yeah sorry I meant Isma

[ember river]

All hearts are beating, they represent the former beauty/power of some zones of pharloom

[acoustic holly]

Isma and ze’mer tho

[sinful nimbus]

Ze'mer seems normal

[gilded beacon]

Having the supernatural ability of dying to a bunch of mantises

[ember river]

Ze'Mer doesn't seem that magical

[acoustic holly]

She can literally xounjour the flower which can literally resist void

[ember river]

And dryya doesn't look supernatural either

[ember river]

Doesn't she just have plenty?

[jovial trail]

She does turn into dust, that’s weird

[arctic mountain]

there's def something special about zemer

shes litearlly a physical ghost

[gilded beacon]

As if Pharloom's beauty wasn't truly gone

[sand tapir]

Silksing is a very overrated game that does not produce the needed brain nutrients for a human brain to function. i there for believe the gave should be banned effective immediatly.

[potent jolt]

nah

[jovial trail]

I think the only really really old character that I can’t find a reason for is ogrim

[gilded beacon]

Pretty sure that most lesbians are

[acoustic holly]

Dryya and ogrim are pretty normal but Isma literally is like one with nature

[cursive sinew]

Ban tiktok first.

[jovial trail]

Like why

[ember river]

Good luck getting the "heart of pharloom" from a conductor or something

[sinful nimbus]

She brought them over from a different kingdom its not conjuring

[acoustic holly]

She seems very associated with them

[sand tapir]

Tiktok does not have aliminum for the required ban limits

[sinful nimbus]

Because she brought them to Hallownest yes

[gilded beacon]

The guy in the High Halls is a conductor right?

[sand tapir]

SImple facts

[acoustic holly]

And she also can like force ghost disappear herself

[ember river]

I didn't say Isma (unless I did because of some hole in my brain), she clearly has something going on

[ember river]

Yes and he dies

Also heart lore is weird

They show up for a single mission and are never brought up again so we have very little to work with

[gilded beacon]

Don't you fight him in the Witheward?

[ember river]

They are also very esotetic

[jovial trail]

That’s a different guy

Or well guys

[tropic arrow]

no, that's just the remains of a different conductor

[ember river]

No, that's a bunch of lingering will taking the mantle of conductor mizello

The one we speak to is Ballador

[gilded beacon]

Man

[jovial trail]

Huh how do we know the name?

[spring escarp]

Is silksong the biggest metroidvania by area?

[ember river]

The cilinder with a surgery record

[jovial trail]

Ohhhh

[ember river]

I haven't played enough of them to know

[ember river]

Technically we don't know but it's heavily implied

[spring escarp]

Like, it is bigger than HK, and people say HK was one of the biggest.

Idk how to compare sizes though

[sinful nimbus]

No one has every played every metroidvania to deduce whether or not that is true alas

[spring escarp]

Cause scale varies

[gilded beacon]

All of the NPCs related to the song to the elevator feel off

[spring escarp]

You don't need to play to tell

Like, a consesus can be reached.

[ember river]

Me on my way to make a single shitty metroidvania with an extremely large space to break the record

[sinful nimbus]

Well its also true that no one is familiar with every metroidvanias map either

[spring escarp]

Anyone knows a bigger one?

[jovial trail]

The 13th architect seems fine (unless something happens to her when you buy all the stock, I haven’t done that yet)

[spring escarp]

real

[ember river]

I don't, but then again I played like 3

[spring escarp]

I played a lot of them

[ember river]

You can speak to one of each

[arctic mountain]

silksong map is def bigger than hallownest thats all i know

[spring escarp]

So far this is the largest one.

[sinful nimbus]

Step 1, create a room with a double jump
Step 2, create a room that needs double jump in a previous room
Step 3, ridiculously long corridor to final boss

[gilded beacon]

Except the Vault one

[ember river]

Conductor Ballador, the Vaultkeeper and the Twelfth Architect

[gilded beacon]

He's pretty dead

[ember river]

You speak to a vaultkeeper

Wait you haven't found the cylinder guy?

[crude peak]

cant wait for mossbag's "mostly all of hollow knight silksong's lore in around an hour" vid 🔥 🔥 🔥

[spring escarp]

big if true.

[ember river]

I'll just make the jupiter room of Blame! with actual distances, and the final boss is the observer

[jovial trail]

Just an hour

[arctic mountain]

mossbag imma need like 24 lore videos

[gilded beacon]

I did, I mean the big dead one, i just feel that all three are a little underused, except Twelfth Architect

[jovial trail]

I crave the mossbag ss videos

[ember river]

That's the pontiff

[gilded beacon]

One big video that's 24 hours long

[ember river]

He was the boss of the vault pretty much

[gilded beacon]

Yeah, that's expected

[spring escarp]

i would love a blame¡ inspired metoridvania

[ember river]

Also I think only ballador is underused, and yet he gives us very juicy pieces of lore

[ember river]

I landed my eyes on one with a similar robot megastructure thematic called MIO

[spring escarp]

MIO hm

[gilded beacon]

Yeah, but we only see him half dead and then fully dead

[arctic mountain]

playing it on loop for 7 years waiting for Fearless Fox to come out

[ember river]

It's still in development and seems to be slightly similar to a DMC/NiER hybrid called VA Proxy

[ember river]

Adds to the mystique

[gilded beacon]

Fearless Fox is in the same world of HK, but on the true surface

[ember river]

Memories In Orbit, not for sale yet

[jovial trail]

I wonder if ballador was taking silk into him to keep himself alive or he was taking silk out to not fall for the curse

[spring escarp]

: (

[ember river]

Considering the haunting propagates through silk, almost definetely the former

[arctic mountain]

when we find out all of HK and silksong takes place under a rock in Fearless Fox then what?

[gilded beacon]

He feels like Lurien to me, he's just there, and I wish that there was a little more to it

[ember river]

There's a choral commandment mentioning conductors wanting to become machines like architects did

[gilded beacon]

We stomp it

[arctic mountain]

no more pale beings ever again causing shit

[jovial trail]

It’s actually under TC couch

[ember river]

He tells us their view of the citadel, that they inherited it from weavers, etc.

[spring escarp]

He sounded sick

[ember river]

Lurien told us nothing

[gilded beacon]

What happened to the Architects?

[spring escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/james-doakes-doakes-curious-suspicious-questioning-gif-14390669560130901665

Lurien Is a creep

[ember river]

They're all deactivated in a secret room inside the chapel, they probably completed their directive

[arctic mountain]

lurien was a hater til the bitter end

[ember river]

Since 12th does the same

[spring escarp]

wait what

[ember river]

And seems tired of working in act 3

[gilded beacon]

He was an stalker

[ember river]

12th shuts down if you buy all the stock and sit on a bench

[spring escarp]

WHAT

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[ember river]

You get the second pristine core from her

[spring escarp]

WHAT NOOOOOO

[gilded beacon]

I felt the same

[spring escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/excited-fuego-gif-5901093615015223817

[ember river]

Also if you buy from her in act 3 she seems pretty tired and wants to stop making stuff

Fortunately she still lives for me since I'm missing two craftmetals

[spring escarp]

I will simply never check the robot again

[gilded beacon]

What's your favorite Wander NPC?

[spring escarp]

Simple as

[arctic mountain]

is second sentinel the only robot that doesnt get deaded

[ember river]

Second Sentinel probably

[ember river]

I think so

[arctic mountain]

i like to imagine if Hornet takes over as ruler of Pharloom, Second Sentinel becomes her top guard

[gilded beacon]

Me too, I was hoping to not kill him in his fight after Green Prince trauma

[jovial trail]

I never understood where the other sentinels were, is it said explicitly somewhere?

[spring escarp]

Idk who I was beefing with voe rmeteoisvania sizes

[ember river]

I would have been pretty underwhelmed, but I was half expecting that with the other 3 sentinel corpses there

[gilded beacon]

Lace would, Hornet is too busy in her house at Bellhart

[spring escarp]

But I just checked

[arctic mountain]

theres a room full of deactivated sentinels

[spring escarp]

And in nearly every criteria hollow kngiht was the biggest before.

[ember river]

They are dead in the background of the arena where you fight second

There were 4 or 5 in total

[jovial trail]

How tf did I miss that

[gilded beacon]

Also Lace is the prices so it makes more sense for her to be the new ruler

[jovial trail]

I might be blind

[ember river]

Also you can find the other 3 Chorus in 12th's lair

[spring escarp]

It would lose to castlevania by little in some metrics

[ember river]

I love the machines

[jovial trail]

Yeah that one is harder to miss

[arctic mountain]

im glad sentinel doesnt die because i cant handle anymore act 3 tragedy

inb4 they die in the dlc

[spring escarp]

real

[gilded beacon]

What are the Choruses use?

[ember river]

The one missing is in the chapel

[ember river]

Probably mining like Hallownest's crystal automatons

[jovial trail]

||GARMOND 😭 ||

[arctic mountain]

heavy labor golems probably

[ember river]

Or heavy combat but they seem rather bad at fighting

[jovial trail]

Yeah it just kinda sung its hand around

[ember river]

o7 for the don quixote bug

[arctic mountain]

act 3 is literally Depression the story arc even if it ends on a hopeful note

[sudden pivot]

I really really really hope they find a way to shoehorn an act 3 Grimm Troupe DLC just for the mental image of Hornet having to deal with her nephew who smokes six packs a day trying to get her to dance with him

[gilded beacon]

My theory is that they were used to build Deep Docks, like this giant excavators that once they're done is cheaper to let them rot than recuperate it

[jovial trail]

At least flick and sherma are alive

[ember river]

Please no more callbacks

[arctic mountain]

plz tell me someone adopts|| zaza||

[spring escarp]

What was the fourth chorus doing on far fields

[ember river]

We already fought NKG once, the fight would be the same

[spring escarp]

Why it fought with the seamtress

[jovial trail]

TRUE I hope we see Zara in bellhart in a hypothetical act 4 DLC

[ember river]

Excavating or something, dunno

[sudden pivot]

Nightmare Heart fight would be cool :3

[spring escarp]

Is that why she doesn't want to fight the citadel

[lucid pasture]

mineration idk

[ember river]

Wait it fought the seamtress

[arctic mountain]

Sherma cant die because hes the main character of hollow knight 3

[spring escarp]

No, seamtress

[ember river]

Nightmare King Grimm IS the avatar of the Nightmare Heart

[spring escarp]

The red bug in the super cool sick dirigible house

[gilded beacon]

Option 1. Zaza dies next to Garmond waiting for him
Option 2. Someone (Hornet most likely) adopts Zaza!!

[spring escarp]

I want a floating house so bad.

[ember river]

Seamtress, yes, I wrote sinners because I'm fucking dumb

[arctic mountain]

sherma adopts zaza this is canon now

[spring escarp]

yes get treated

[jovial trail]

You are Cooking

[spring escarp]

It fought seamstress, it is right next to her and has her pin shoved into his neck.

[ember river]

The Fourth Chorus could have also been a builder

[gilded beacon]

Sherma is peak, is more peak than Hallownest peak

[spring escarp]

A pin just like the pintress oen

[spring escarp]

Building what though

[lean temple]

I think you mean the Pinstress (blue one)

[arctic mountain]

curse team cherry and them getting me so emotionally invested in bugs

[rancid swift]

well they kinda got betrayed after teaching citadel bugs how to fight, no?

[spring escarp]

nope the red one

[ember river]

Infrastructure like the Deep Docks

[jovial trail]

Honestly I’m so shocked sherma didn’t die, every time he moved I expected to find his corpse somewhere

[spring escarp]

I think the red one also knwos some fighting

[ember river]

It can do that much more quickly

[lean temple]

You think the Seamstress was part of the sisterhood?

[gilded beacon]

Maybe they were trying to expand the Deep Docks into Far Fields but the beast overwhelmed it

[rancid swift]

sheo 2.0

[ember river]

And its hands seem able enough

[spring escarp]

idk what you tlaking about

[spring escarp]

what sisterhood

[ember river]

I think their actual labor just stopped with the Haunting

[unborn night]

What if garmond is alive and once hornet gets rid of the void he'll recover. Totally. Right. Right 🥹

[spring escarp]

Oh, not necessarely but mayeb

[gilded beacon]

Me too, ngl I was always happy to find him alive

[lean temple]

The group pinstress was in

[spring escarp]

I think she just knows a thign or tso from her sister

Hence the robot defeated next to her

[rancid swift]

the one that stays in the blasted steps tells you something like I described

[spring escarp]

She might have called help from pintress though

[lean temple]

Does she say pinstress is her sister? Or is that implied

[rancid swift]

both of them are the last ones and fled and etc

[gilded beacon]

Yes, my child everything will be fine.... Everything....

[spring escarp]

yes she does explicitly

[arctic mountain]

Dark souls had mentally prepared me for him to die brutally

[spring escarp]

If you go back to her after talking to pintress

she warns you she is a killer

[spring escarp]

took ne a while to recall

Sounds highly likely they are

[jovial trail]

it looked a lot like he was going to be ||myla 2.0||

[rancid swift]

also, does the red one really say that she fought the robot?

[spring escarp]

sisters... the clue that seamtress knwos how to fight... etc

[ember river]

Sherma's a dude?

[spring escarp]

No

[gilded beacon]

Am I the only one who finds it weird that Styx is dead in Steel Soul but doesn't have a replacement?

[arctic mountain]

sherma is male

[spring escarp]

Implied by being one room away

[sudden pivot]

doesn't mean it has to be completely incapable of defending itself otherwise, and I think it'd be cool if it used attacks with two sorta phantom Nightmare Kings, like the second Prince in the Clover Dancer's fight, they could have the same moves but different patterns and tempo :P the thing is we dont really know anything about the Nightmare Heart so idk why we're just assuming it couldn't have projectiles

[lean temple]

Skynx or whatever his name is. Secret npc

[gilded beacon]

Sherma is peak

[spring escarp]

Broken robot was fought by someone with a needle.

[rancid swift]

wasn't it just stuck in the rock?

[lean temple]

There's a pin sticking out of it

[gilded beacon]

Can you send a pic?

[ember river]

It is a dream fight. Grimm is the form it adopts, that's what we fight.
It's like saying we should fight the sun instead of the radiance's moth form or something

[spring escarp]

Noep there is a pin sticking out the neck

[lean temple]

I'll try 1 sec

[jovial trail]

What do the silkgrubs do in steel soul btw

[rancid swift]

wow, that's pretty cool actually

[spring escarp]

SO MUCH TO INTERPRET IN THIS GAME

[spring escarp]

Money

[rancid swift]

would easilly believe that the seamstress walloped it

[ember river]

And that is great

[spring escarp]

you give it to skynx

[jovial trail]

Huh I don’t know why but I assume that was bc lace awoke the robot

[edgy barn]

Zaza is not waiting for Garmond, she knows he´s dead.

She´s probably just not ready to leave yet

[spring escarp]

What is lugoli doing with that fat asss hmmmmpf

[gilded beacon]

Damn, still they don't come anyway close to my love Styx

[lean temple]

Ass Jim*

[jovial trail]

Zaza is coping (like us)

[gilded beacon]

I love that bug, he's so funny

[rancid swift]

the same thing happens to the guy that sells eggs in hk
maybe just gameplay reasons

[ember river]

Killing muckroaches to get fatter

[sudden pivot]

...huh? so it dies when you kill NKG? how does it reappear in Godhome? what?

[muted lantern]

Do we activate second sentinel for the first time or reactivate them?

[ember river]

No? It's a ritual to feed it, that's the whole point

[spring escarp]

Is there anything useful to do on the lugoli storage?

The secret room on the top?

[ember river]

It's incredibly hard to kill a higher being anyways

[lean temple]

Just picked maggot I think

[sudden pivot]

but you kill NKG? but you're saying it effectively is NKG?

[ember river]

Also in godhome every dead thing shows up, traitor lord, god tamer and the like

[ember river]

You don't kill grimm or the nightmare heart

[arctic mountain]

i wonder how silksong is gonna do the boss rush lore

[jovial trail]

That’s funny considering how hard Silksong is

[muted lantern]

You destroy the current nkg to ascend the Grimmchild to the new nightmare king, preserving the nightmare hearts cycle

[spring escarp]

eva lmao

[edgy barn]

I thought you did kill Grimm and Grimmchild would take his place in the future.

[jovial trail]

Maybe it’s gonna be something with the steel city

[gilded beacon]

Maybe we can access Hornet's memory and refight the Memory versions of the bosses

[blissful harbor]

godseekers are gonna come back somehow
TK spits them back out from the void lmao void seekers

[gilded beacon]

Really??

[arctic mountain]

somehow....the godseekers returned

[ember river]

Well, you kill grimm as the physical thing, yes, but the grimmchild is the new host

[blissful harbor]

no not really, i think the seekers should stay in their little void out

[gilded beacon]

Loam is so creepy, I love him

[jovial trail]

Ohhh this is a good idea

[sudden pivot]

okay I get that, I dont understand how thats comparable to the Radiance and it's moth vs sun forms, NKG is still a seperate being it's just the Heart's spawn and intrisnitclly linked to it

[ember river]

It will become another Grimm

[lean temple]

Really the only way to do it so far is to dunk them in liquid violence (void)

[blissful harbor]

memory refights make the most sense, hornet going through memories with silk is already established

[ember river]

NKG is the Heart's avatar

[muted lantern]

Grimm and Grimmchild are the same person basically, Grimmchild is just the new vessel that Grimms consciousness moves to

[ember river]

Yes

[sudden pivot]

right, im with you that far

[arctic mountain]

when the new grimm pulls up in the dlc and trobbio begs him to join the troupe

[rancid swift]

eva:

[edgy barn]

I don´t want the grimm troupe to fully come back in Silksong DLC, but it would like a cameo.

[gilded beacon]

We've already fought memories, and I assume that Hornet would remember such epic battles

[ember river]

Pretty sure Grimm and the grimmchild are physical vessels for the Heart

[lean temple]

They are

[muted lantern]

We never fight the actual nightmare heart, Grimm is just the vessel for a higher being, like how thk is a vessel for the radiance

[ember river]

Grimm driving around Pharloom in a ferrari

[gilded beacon]

Tormented Trobbio is emo enough to join

[edgy barn]

Like, some sort of Grimm scout that is checking out the event so that they might feed off Pharloom if its falls

and Hornet tells them it won´t happen

[sudden pivot]

I know im trying to argue with @ember river a Nightmare HEart fight would be cool and he's saying it would just be NKG again and im disagreeing

[muted lantern]

Bumping this

[ember river]

Again, that's like asking to fight the sun instead of radiance

[arctic mountain]

grimm troupe scout showing up in act 3 and being like" dang this kingdom is fucked up"

[jovial trail]

It would be a bit disappointing in the sense that we probably wouldn’t get much lore or new endings, but maybe they could do some crazy stuff in memories like a pale king fight

[lean temple]

Activate I think

[gilded beacon]

What about the bugs that venerate the Fire Father or whatever is called

[sudden pivot]

dont get how it's comparable :/

[ember river]

The NKG is what the Heart uses to fight you

[jovial trail]

Actually I want a pale king fight the memories idea is awesome

[edgy barn]

No relation other than a vague resemblance as far as we know

[rancid swift]

what a yummy lot of regrets to feed upon

[ember river]

A pale king DLC would be absolute fire

[arctic mountain]

vespa fight vespa fight vespa fight

[lean temple]

It gives the Wyrm crest

[gilded beacon]

No, bcs.... Uhhh.. we need to use the help of a new faction to access it

[edgy barn]

and I would rather keep it that way tbh, makes the world feel bigger

[muted lantern]

Ah, nightmare heart fight would be interesting to battle head on, I imagine it would be similar to father of the flame in that it's a stationary boss, would be hard to make that an engaging battle but possible

[rancid swift]

I REALLY need to know what happened to the sealed vessel

it would be so cool

[jovial trail]

Imagine we get to play as hornet with the epic pale cloak from the memory

[sudden pivot]

and the moth form is what the sun Raidance uses to fight you?? this isn't the same thing, the Heart isn't going all out it wants NKG to die so new Grimm can grow and stuff so it's not going all out why cant it have more of its own projectiles and stuff if it had to defend itself?

[ember river]

Isn't the point of you being half wyrm that you can change your crest?

[gilded beacon]

Fr it would be awesome
"Hive Queen Vespa"

[spring escarp]

they should add a hive

[muted lantern]

If there's a Vespa fight she needs to give hornet a mom hug at the end

[lean temple]

Is that because of the Wyrm nature? Idk. It might be actually

[ember river]

Because that'd be kind of lame as fuck

[spring escarp]

aboge the surface, a place that makes sense

[ember river]

So I've heard

[jovial trail]

Awwww that’d be awesome

[lethal burrow]

they already did spirit emblems why not do more?

[lean temple]

Either way I was referring to a found sprite which looks like a PK crest

[jovial trail]

HUH

[blissful harbor]

ah yes the lost hallownest crest
imagine what could’ve been

[ember river]

Wait there's a PK crest in the files?
WE ARE GETTING A WYRM DLC FOLKS

HALLOWED CREST

[lethal burrow]

We explored her Weaver side now there's only one logical step

[arctic mountain]

PK boss fight but the entire room is sawblades

[ember river]

Oh hell yes

[lime nova]

WOAH WHAT

[gilded beacon]

I 100% believe that Vespa is Hornet's mother figure, to an extent that she gave her her name: Hornet

[jovial trail]

HOLY I’m so excited for the DLC

[rancid swift]

eva describing how hornet is of changing/volatile nature took me back to her half-breed status

[sudden pivot]

like I said to gasattack I think it would be cool to include attacks with a pair of Phantom Nightmare King's who work like the second Prince in Clover Dancers, they could have the same styles of attacks with the flame pillars and fire trails and weird bat dragon projectile things, but with different patterns where they attack from both sides of the screen at once

[ember river]

Only two or three NPCs mention the wyrm side

[edgy barn]

We finally meet the Blackwyrm and turns out to just be PK in blackface.

[ember river]

Which I like, helps keep the mystique

[jovial trail]

THATS SO COOL also maybe we should mark with spoilers since it’s datamined content (?)

[lime nova]

Yeah, we still know so little about wyrms

[lean temple]

I interpret the shifting to be from the Wyrm side as they can shapeshift

[gilded beacon]

Twelfth Architect boss we're use tools and of course Saws

[muted lantern]

A core aspect of hornet is that she has 3 mother figures, child of 3 queens and all that

[rancid swift]

yeah it makes more sense

[arctic mountain]

hornet has 3 moms and 1 deadbeat father

[ember river]

The battle of the blackwyrm was in twitter

[muted lantern]

His ass doesn't even get a flashback

[sudden pivot]

I mean I appreciate and respect your opinion, it feels a little unnecessary to shit all over my idea for no particular reason though :(

[edgy barn]

I still find it really weird that of the three queens it was Vespa that got to name Hornet

[jovial trail]

And a silent sibling (a lot more dead ones)

[lime nova]

All we get is a journal entry where she calls him a fool

[lean temple]

Datamined crest sprite (resend)

[arctic mountain]

Hornet family reunion dlc

[muted lantern]

Pale king divorce dlc

[ember river]

Changing one of the most dynamic bossfights of the game into a static projectile dodge, reusing the entire grimm troupe and replacing grimm's design with the heart does seem like a substantial downgrade

[jovial trail]

ABSOLUTE CINEMA

[gilded beacon]

I meant like the most maternal towards her, after Herrah died

[muted lantern]

I don't think she is trying to replace Grimm, but reccomend a new boss fight for silksong

[gilded beacon]

Can't wait for Hornet to present Lace to her homophobic uncle

[lime nova]

I'd also love to see an exploration of what roots are

[ember river]

Well it is just reusing the grimm troupe but with a lamer bossfight

[jovial trail]

The white lady seemed pretty nice in the memories tbf

[rancid swift]

lol I'd for sure like vespa way more than the white lady

[ember river]

If WL was just a parasite that absorbed a pale being I'd laugh a lot

[lean temple]

I can see a new incarnation of Grimm who fits Silksong's combat

[muted lantern]

Lace is a child!!!

[lime nova]

Uncle? I uh... wait hold on I gotta map out this family tree

[ember river]

I just wouldn't like if the DLCs were also the ones from HK

Comes off as lazy

[arctic mountain]

we need the full family tree with all 5 million dead vessels

[gilded beacon]

She is? I thought "childish" as in she acts like it, immature and annoying

[ember river]

"Oh yeah, explore this super interesting new kindgom, and as additions you get the exact same guys from the last game"

[rancid swift]

the only one that I would be fine with is another pantheon like boss rush

[lean temple]

Me too, but the Troupe are confirmed travellers. While I don't think Pharloom is dead enough for them to show up, it wouldn't be impossible for them to.

[gilded beacon]

That's a Rainforest at this point

[jovial trail]

We need that fr, the bosses in skong are so 🔥

[arctic mountain]

grimm troupe dlc but trobbio eats the nightmare heart

[ember river]

Even then I'd like it to be an ancient weaver colony or machine or something

We're definetely getting a boss rush

[gilded beacon]

Bye with other lore/faction than the goodsekkers

[rancid swift]

"wow that's our weaver thread of past possibilities" magic type of shit

[sudden pivot]

thank you for the more constructive criticism genuinely :3 I wouldn't want it to just be a projectile dodge either i'd love to do all sorts of ideas, the Phantom NKGs I talked about, projectile patterns, maybe a screen-wide attack where fire waves over parts of the screen and you have to avoid it (think Galeem from SSBU if you've played it) and then you can start mixxing the aoe and the Phantom NKGs and the projectile patterns in a second phase and maybe as a third pase have a Nyleth thing where the floor and walls become fire and your only method for mobility is to bounce off the heart, I get it could use some polish and stuff but do you really think it's totally worthless as an idea?

[gilded beacon]

He's auditioning for the job

[arctic mountain]

american idol pharloom

[edgy barn]

Yeah this is why I don´t want them back as anything more than a cameo. It would be nice to see or get a hint the Grimm troupe checking out Pharloom as a kingdom that might fall in the near future, but just straight having a repeat of their role in the first game would be jarring and boring.

[ember river]

Or literally anything other than godseekers again

[gilded beacon]

Ass Jimm is going to show her cooking abilities

[rancid swift]

really want to try all crests on them without replaying 6 times

[lethal burrow]

let's talk about the story again

[gilded beacon]

She's like Pharloom's Gordon Ramsay

[muted lantern]

Lemme get the list of times she's called a child

1: hornet twice, never corrected
2: snail shaman says she has the look of a child and a mind to match
3: every character referencing hearing her laughter calls her a child
4: lost lace entry in hunters journal (the part not written by hornet, but by an omniscient narrator) calls her a child
5: lace calls herself a child in needolin dialogue (her own innermost thoughts)

[jovial trail]

Just as convenient as the random cocoon in the dump from a godseeking cult that can let you fight bosses

[rancid swift]

also 🇧🇷 @jovial trail

[gilded beacon]

Mb, srry

[jovial trail]

No im 🇪🇸

[muted lantern]

All good, sorry if I come off as aggressive, I've had to debate this approximately 600 times

[ember river]

I'll be honest the biggest gripe I have is with it being the nightmare heart instead of any new original boss that could both expand the lore and implement all sorts of cool mechanics with no design constraint.
I feel like the Grimm Troupe as a whole is a well tied story, and instead of going back a new one, as interesting if not more could be told.
Sorry if I come off as abrasive, sometimes I go overboard with words :P

[rancid swift]

[gilded beacon]

[ember river]

Oh that's nice. We got a don quixote in pharloom, spanish representation

[muted lantern]

Guys sorry I'ma post a big spoiler

[quiet mango]

[ember river]

Who voiced Garmond actually? It felt like an actual spanish accent

[lethal burrow]

Well, I can't really say "physically" because she's a unique one of a kind being so there's not really any other of her species to judge her age off of in that regard, she certainly has mannerisms of a child, but I don't know if that extends to her cognitive abilities in their entirety only being the level of a child.

We at least know that she's been around for a very long time.

[gilded beacon]

Nah, it's my bad, I just assumed that since she's called a child because she's childish and unmature, and also since other characters call Hornet child although not being one I thought that it would be a similar scenario

[modest heart]

Is there a consensus of which point in time Lace and Phantom were created? Pre or post weaver flight from pharloom

[ember river]

No

The timeline is kinda messy for me

[brisk finch]

Do you have access to the full drive with the sprites?

[jovial trail]

I liked garmond a lot for multiple reasons ||and then he died just like in the book||

[arctic mountain]

I need the voice actor list fr

[ember river]

I loved that

[gilded beacon]

We got two

[muted lantern]

Ye people bring up hornet being called a child a lot, my main counterpoint is Shakra corrects herself, hornet corrects snail shaman immediately, and she's also called miss grown up by nuu

[lean temple]

No, I got this one from this channel

[ember river]

The tragic end of him breaking free from insanity

[edgy barn]

So he was doomed from the start...

[jovial trail]

Wait who’s the second one :0

[umbral moth]

don quijote to the end.........

[ember river]

It can't not be a reference

[brisk finch]

Darn, the link is dead so I need someone with a copy

[rancid swift]

it would be hillarious to find a pharloom timeline that is composed of measures

[gilded beacon]

You are not going to believe this

[jovial trail]

The spoiler tag wasn’t for silksong

[edgy barn]

Hornet is called a child in the sense of being offspring. Lace is called a child in the sense of being a kid.

[sudden pivot]

its okay!!! ahhh I appreciate where you're coming from, it just speaks to a difference in what we're hoping for out of further SIlksong content and I think thats okay :3 me personally i'd love more than anything for us to get a bunch more lore on the Troupe and Godseekers and Moths and Mantids and Lifeblood and all the other wonderfully esoteric things from the first game they could possibly fit lore about into the second one, but I totally respect if thats where our hopes for the game and it's lore diverge ^^

[arctic mountain]

omg garmoundt literally appears for the first time in the windmill area

[umbral moth]

is anyone actually going to be bothered by spoilers for a book that's over 400 years old-

[jovial trail]

No but it’s funny to tag it

[umbral moth]

ykw i can't argue against that

[gilded beacon]

Giant windmills mind you

[muted lantern]

For cognitive abilities I generally lean on the "she has the look of a child and a mind to match" line which implies shes in a kinda state of arrested development mentally, and that snail shaman seems to know a lot about lace and been around to see her a long time already from his dialogue, so it's presumable he's a reliable narrator on this subject.

[umbral moth]

the funny must be upheld, i rescind my previous statement

[modest heart]

I see Lace’s case to be very interesting since she’s not a normal child, she is stuck in that state mind and body, but she has awareness of that fact and acts not as a child but as her actual age when the situation calls for it. Almost like the default child persona is the surface layer. Pretty sad imo

[umbral moth]

Y E A H

[quick marten]

Shakra straight up thinks Hornet is a kid at first and I'm pretty sure its just cause she's small compared to her own species

[ember river]

The lifeblood lore imo was handled pretty well, it showed us why it was frowned upon in Hallownest, didn't really get on the way of the story, or gameplay that much, and got a new name and all.

[ember river]

He's my favorite character

[lethal burrow]

Second sentinel is pretty cool

[rancid swift]

pale king beating (some) allegations

[sudden pivot]

I also find her 180 turn on Mother Silk to speak to quite a child-like mentality, not to say that rebellion hadn't been brewing it certainly had, just that the impulsive nature of her turn against her mother to me speaks to a certain immaturity

[jovial trail]

I wonder if the reason lifeblood expands in act 3 is bc it’s somehow connected to void, we also have the lifeblood area in HK’s abyss

[ember river]

The entire robot roster is my second

[arctic mountain]

this game has alot of good characters i love my cast of twisted depressed bugs

[ember river]

They are so cool, I love clockwork automata

[gilded beacon]

If Lace is a child I assume that Phantom too?

[muted lantern]

Yeah I think it's actually a key part of her stories tragedy and GMS being evil, she created a child that could never grow up and was always reliant on her for silk, it's a fact lace hates but can't control. It's also why I'm generally uncomfortable with people thirsting over lace which is unfortunately common online.

[rancid swift]

I love the architect

[gilded beacon]

A lot of characters to kill in act 3 too

[lethal burrow]

Did he really do anything bad besides killing all those children and not being involved in the life of hornet and doing all that stuff with the hollow knight?

[ember river]

I think it's just meant to portray the pass of time, and add the strong enemies when you are meant to be strong too

[umbral moth]

he disappeared when his kingdom needed him most

[arctic mountain]

im never fully emotionally recovering from green prince leaning on the cogwork dancer

[ember river]

Favorite machine for me too, followed by the Chorus

[jovial trail]

Hmm good question, her attitude didn’t seem as unmatured but she did try to kill us without asking questions (probably to end it but still)

[ember river]

I like the designs

[rancid swift]

I was thinking about this specially bad one lol

[lethal burrow]

Needed him to do what

[muted lantern]

He also built a very heirarchal capitalist monarchy that encouraged people to worship their king as God and sacrifice their worldly possessions.

[modest heart]

did he really do anything bad besides massive infanticide /lh

[gilded beacon]

She is a misunderstood emo teenager

[rancid swift]

did you find the secret room next to the crest??

[umbral moth]

the people saw him as a god (which yeah, he kinda was) and wanted him to save them from the declining state of hallownest

or at least offer some guidance like he had always done in times past

[arctic mountain]

i need more second sentinel content I NEED MORE

[umbral moth]

and he just
poof, completely gone

[lethal burrow]

well, he tried his best and it didn't work and then the void killed him

[umbral moth]

not even the white palace remains anymore

[gilded beacon]

Fr, we crave more robots

[quick cairn]

I love how this is basically canon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWAX7GnXSDI&list=RDfWAX7GnXSDI&start_radio=1

[ember river]

Sadly I found out about it after I got it, I didn't really know the deal about the chapel and thought it was just the crest

[sudden pivot]

I generally agree though there's still plenty more i'd love to know about, is there a Lifeblood Higher Being? why do the Lifeseeds look identical to the Radiance's infection seeds she uses to take over the Broken Vessel? is there any safe way to cultivate Lifeseed? how did it appear in coves across Hallownest if it was outlawed? i'd love for answers to any of these questions, I also really wish we got a proper Lifeblood boss ^^;

[muted lantern]

Phantom is said to be grey with age, I imagine they were a failure of what GMS wanted which was a child which couldn't outgrow her, as she's portrayed as possessive and evil, this is probably why they were abandoned. But they could have been still mentally a child, just physically aging too, we know less about them

[umbral moth]

do you think the common folk are aware of the exactitude of what was happening behind closed doors?

[gilded beacon]

I hate that we can't talk to him after finding him randomly

[modest heart]

I’ll say, The pale kind as far as im aware isolated himself due to the massive guilt he felt towards the whole ordeal. he has a lot of “human” points to his character that make him somewhat redeemable

[rancid swift]

most of them have something like this I think, pretty neat lore

[modest heart]

he was not a crazy lets conquer all pale being like GM silk

[sudden pivot]

remember he tried forsaking everyone outside his capital first before deciding to abandon ship entirely :D

[jovial trail]

Ohhh a lifeblood boss would be cool it would probably constantly heal tho

[gilded beacon]

It could be mentally a child but it's older than lace

Fair enough

[umbral moth]

that too!!! none shall leave and none shall enter

[ember river]

The lifeblood higher being sounds interesting but I think it's better left as a natural plague. It'd be refreshing to have a normal infection without any god behind it for a change

[muted lantern]

It's just as likely he was hiding from his cities collapse and potential angry mobs

[gilded beacon]

If it only does one mask of damage then it's ok for me

[modest heart]

that too!

[rancid swift]

I expected to know a little more about the abyss creature, maybe just a hallownest/dream thing then?

[quick cairn]

yes actually, or at least something akin to it in Hollow Knight 1

[ember river]

Am I the only one confused as to why the lifeblood enemy mechanic is healing when the thing about lifeblood masks is that you cannot heal them?

[sudden pivot]

even in that case it's presence in Godhome and the presence of the creature in it's room still beckons further answers no?

[muted lantern]

Im generally opposed to pale king especially because I hate monarchy, which is why I'm a fan of the anti monarchical themes of silksong true ending

[quick cairn]

https://hollowknight.fandom.com/wiki/Abyss_Creature

[jovial trail]

Idk there’s still so many questions from hallownest unanswered WHATS IN THE TRILOBITE

[sudden pivot]

its also in the Lifeblood room in Godhome

[rancid swift]

nice floating head

[jovial trail]

That’s bob

[ember river]

Yep, that's why I think there may be a HB behind it, even though that isn't the way I'd go

[sudden pivot]

I assume because of the Weaver seals it's the Sire of Deepnest's grave/corpse/tomb

[muted lantern]

Shade lord after huffing too much lifeblood

[rancid swift]

what happened to sealed vessel 😭

[lethal burrow]

The sort of memory you can see with the needolin has lace looking at Phantom. Well, Phantom is in some sort of test tube(?) so that left me with the implication that lace somehow created phantom.

No idea though

[ember river]

I still recognize when something has more weight than my own headcanon and desires

[muted lantern]

You mean the hollow knight? The thing containing the radiance?

[quick cairn]

Ayo Radiance these eatables ain't shit

[umbral moth]

sealed vessel = hollow knight, ya

[lilac monolith]

Silksong communism dlc idea: you help karl marx reshape pharloom and instill socialist ideals into pilgrims

[jovial trail]

It grew bc it ate the veggies

[umbral moth]

its song is called sealed vessel so i can see why someone would call thk that

[gilded beacon]

That's just the Pale King idea

[rancid swift]

yeah, for now I'd like to assume the cliff hanger is cannon

if we don't get anything from the dlcs I might just throw the towel

[ember river]

You carry Lenin from the Slab where he was politically incarcerated to the top of Mount Fay to overthrow the rotten burgeoise

[lime nova]

Whipped up a quick family tree

[sudden pivot]

also isn't it pretty heavily implied that the Pale King did do a pretty intense imperialism on the Moths? thats another reason he's an asshole

[gilded beacon]

I wouldn't mind seeing the HK again in Pharloom

[arctic mountain]

this thing is so cool i love that one room wheres theres one in the background blinking if you look hard enough

[quick cairn]

you forgot about Phantom

[ember river]

Nah, the moths were described as fickle

[lime nova]

I did not

[quick cairn]

it's scary af if you think about it

[lethal burrow]

So we're assuming Phantom was created by grandmother silk then

[modest heart]

the moths turned on the radiance cuz they felt like it lol

[ember river]

They abandoned the Radiance completely, while the mosskin still worshiped Unn even with the PK around

[jovial trail]

Huh this makes the hornet lace ship very weird when you think about it

[lime nova]

.....yes? Because she was

[quick cairn]

my dumbass read Phantom as Pharloom

[sudden pivot]

ya but some still Worshipped the Radiance and were presumably outcasted/exiled/executed for it

[rancid swift]

just knowing what happened to them would be fine imo

[ember river]

So PK did have some religious tolerance

[arctic mountain]

lace technically being hornet's auntie lmao

[lilac monolith]

And we build even more prisons and call the grublags

[gilded beacon]

It already was

[muted lantern]

The true ending of silksong leaves 2 possibilities for the canon hollow knight ending, either dream no more is canon and the hollow knight is dead and in the void, or embrace the void is canon. (Godhome ending) And the hollow knight is alive in hallownest, I lean slightly to embrace the void as thks shade isn't present in silksong true ending implying they are still out there

[lime nova]

Kinda, yeah

[sudden pivot]

most of them sure but plenty didn't, and we know from Hallownest's Crown they switched entire languages and shit so it was total cultural erasure

[arctic mountain]

the hornet x lace ship is already very uhhh questionable

[ember river]

Nothing happened to the mosskin, and there's no proof of that

[arctic mountain]

hornet x shakra is far superior

[lethal burrow]

yeah, that's the assumption
-# (not fact)

[lime nova]

No, it's literally not an assumption, Lace calls her "sister"

[quick cairn]

wait Phantom is a she?

[modest heart]

but lace’s dialogue speaks of GMS creating them

[ember river]

I always assumed that was phantom speaking

[jovial trail]

I like the idea that Hornet is going to be lace’s mentors so she can protect pharloom after hornet leaves

[quick cairn]

where does Lace call Phantom their sister actually, I've missed that

[rancid swift]

thats kind of my thought behind it as well, I just would love to have some kind of concrete conclusion to their arch

[muted lantern]

Iirc the moths willingly chose to follow the pale king and abandon the radiance, which is what angered radi, but I don't remember the source and if it's a hallownest text it could be rewritten history

[lime nova]

It's Lace looking in a mirror and seeing Phantom

[modest heart]

needolin interaction before phantom bossfight

[ember river]

Needolin dialogue that I thought was phantom's

[jovial trail]

There’s one memory thing if you play the needolin

[gilded beacon]

There's ONE other weaver alive in Hallownest, right??

[lethal burrow]

hold on is this for the lace interaction if you go through mist to enter act 2?

I haven't seen that dialogue so if someone could grab what you are talking about for me to see

[ember river]

Isn't it a tube?

[muted lantern]

It's left obscure so people can pick their fave option

[lime nova]

No, it's a mirror

[ember river]

Oh

Odd

[lethal burrow]

I also see a tube so a screenshot would probably be good

[muted lantern]

How do you know? Is it in the filenames?

[modest heart]

yes, inside the organ area

[jovial trail]

Huh I thought they were creating phantom in that part

[lime nova]

The idea is Lace sees herself in Phantom, that how Phantom has been neglected will happen to her

[ember river]

Especiallt since other mirrors look different

[lime nova]

Phantom is older than Lace, she was made first

[sudden pivot]

the Mosskin had military and therefore political sway, the moths were all pacifists, people like to paint Hallownest as if it could have crushed any of it's neighbours easily if it so desired when we know from how the Hunter describes the bugs of Hallownest and from the Deepnest tram that that isnt true, and I mean I feel like its a really extraordinarily safe assumption that worship of the Radiance was outlawed

[ember river]

Where is that stated

[lime nova]

Uhhh, lemme look rq

[rancid swift]

well we cannot know that for sure
also that's some pre dlc miquella vibes lol