sk-lore

[umbral moth]

...didn't know about this, i'll check it out when i get home

[dapper willow]

I DID NOT KNOW THAT
Screenshot immediately

[tropic arrow]

Dragon break mention?! In MY Silksong lore discussion channel?

[elder nymph]

Yes.

[brisk finch]

[brisk finch]

Who were they caving too? The air?

[trim egret]

I'm on switch, can send you a pic😅

[brisk finch]

Did William force Ari to cave

[dreamy steppe]

this is true as well. i think its bad either way honestly. i actually think the reality could be what you're saying that all of the endings are canon

[lapis geode]

That basically saying that
if they reunited as one, there's a chance of winning against her. Too bad they don't

[elder nymph]

That works for now.

[tropic arrow]

From what we can tell, GMS basically curbstomped the local forces, not exactly surprising, when she arrived

[dreamy steppe]

thk is dead after the knight went to the black egg temple, the infection is gone, AND the knight ascended to the shade lord

[dapper willow]

The hearts had to be enlivened
They don't hold that power anymore in the real world

[lucid dirge]

i mean theres no way to make all the endings canon anymore lol the siblings ending and thk ending are clearly not canon

[brisk finch]

I don't see an elegant way for them to clarify that in-game as of now, but it could be
"I helped a little ghost fight our father's last attempt at bal bla bla, but then the void shade lord bal bla bla bla"
would successfully merge both, I'd say?

[dreamy steppe]

of course they can all be canon

[lucid dirge]

theres no way for the knight to ascend to shade lord without ascending the POH

[tropic arrow]

I really do wanna see what GMS may have been like, at her peak might.

Absolute Grand Mother Silk when?

[elder nymph]

I killed the Radiance, but it is extremely clear to me I have no god damn idea what happens in HK.

[lucid dirge]

thats why when entering POH it says "ascend" instead of challenge as well 😭

[brisk finch]

But yeah, for now I'm taking as canon etv/delicate flower

[lucid dirge]

its required for the shade lord to exist

[brisk finch]

Until we get something that suggests more is going on

[tropic arrow]

they are still canon

[lucid dirge]

how 🥀

[tropic arrow]

that Silksong doesn't continue off of them doesn't mean they aren't canon

[dreamy steppe]

if what youre saying is that the knight ascended to be the shade lord after killing the radiance then yes i think that would work

[brisk finch]

And I personally like DF over ETV just because it ties the flower's response to the void back into all of this

[tropic arrow]

It means they are different continuities within the same canon

[dire lynx]

well, if delicate flower is canon ending maybe godseeker will show up for us lmao

[elder nymph]

Delicate flower makes no sense. Outside of plot armor

[tropic arrow]

Pantheon of Pharloom

[brisk finch]

Godseeker could be our best source for what happened in DF

[lucid dirge]

Boy u know damn well what i mean

[elder nymph]

They debated it a bit yesterday. Not sure how HK carries it to the White Lady

[dapper willow]

i don't see whats the power with delicate flower

[dire lynx]

it would certainly be conclusive

[brisk finch]

I don't think they'd reuse the concept for the refights, but I kinda hope they do

[dreamy steppe]

i know and by not specifying how the ascension happened both endings can simultaneously be canon

[tropic arrow]

Pretty sure White Lady comments on it and says it isn't touching the part that is void

[lucid dirge]

"maybe godseeker will show up for us" bro her body is rotting in the abyss as we speak 😭

[brisk finch]

not in df!

[lucid dirge]

yea but the knight cant ascend without godhome

[brisk finch]

Something happens, but not that

[lapis geode]

Like an if situation then..
Basically the ending that you made exist because you do the requirement/some mistake.

All can be considered as canon since it happen at least one time in your gameplay.

But if we interpret "canon" as the ending that they will choose to make the sequel... then yeahhh shade lord is the canon ending (?)

[elder nymph]

The void is the eye sockets, no?

[dire lynx]

if its delicate flower the void being dispelled could have saved godseeker

[lucid dirge]

didnt she completely dissapear alongside the void seeping out of her in that ending

[dreamy steppe]

if the knight didnt kill the radiance for dnm then who would hornet be referring to when she tells lace that she knows gods can fall

[tropic arrow]

40 minute loading screen ala Pantheon of Hallownest, vs 1 hour + intense fight, ala Pantheon of Pharloom

[brisk finch]

I think Shade Lord is the more interesting ending for Ghost specifically

[brisk finch]

Yes, but while we know the void went back to... the void, we don't actually know what happened to them

[dreamy steppe]

i know

[dire lynx]

pale king

[tropic arrow]

TC could reuse Godseeker for Silksong

I doubt they would, but they could

[tropic arrow]

Doesn't make sense to be referring to PK for a few reasons

[dapper willow]

There were more than one godseeker

[brisk finch]

ETV/DF has

1. Ghost as a mega powerful shade lord capable of, say, helping hornet
2. THK just vibing
3. white flower callback
   ye it doesn't tie into black egg, but I like what it leaves open

[dreamy steppe]

does hornet even know hes dead? also comparing the void killing him to her personally killing gms is a little silly, no?

[elder nymph]

There is only one place for the void to go. Back to the Abyss. Hornet comments on an enemy she woukd see if she descended far enough anywhere

[brisk finch]

That's what I'm thinking. There's no reason not to have godmaster 2 on a literal level
and it'd help lore wise
but knowing TC they'll do something unique

[tropic arrow]

First of all, given context, Hornet is almost certainly referring to gods falling in battle. From her perspective, Hornet doesn't even know what happened to PK. From her perspective, while he could have died, it's also possible that he just booked it somewhere else

[lapis geode]

Not gonna lie, I kinda hope they use
the ending where Hornet met the Hollow Knight.

It would be cool for us to see them as NPC. But now it's impossible.

[brisk finch]

I'm saying godseeker may not have gone into the void at all

maybe they ended up in grey mourner's home, who even knows

[tropic arrow]

From Hornet's perspective, the only experience she has with a god falling in battle is Radiance. No one else fits the bill.

[lucid dirge]

i mean i dont remember but arent there OTHER godseekers still probably around?

[dreamy steppe]

sigh i mean yeah but.... its just so unrelated to the main plot i really cant look past that

[elder nymph]

Thats above my pay grade. But that wouldn't surprise me. You see how their mascara runs

[lucid dirge]

but then wtf is up with godhome cuz im 100% sure that place is completely fucked

[brisk finch]

Yes, they';re a species

[lapis geode]

Yeah? Never confirmed it was just one

[dapper willow]

i said the same thing
But I think they are dead so its not a good point

[tropic arrow]

The vibe I had is that the Godseekers basically live in this mind place thing, Godhome, in the mind of the main Godseeker

[lucid dirge]

yeah so if theres a godseeker in pharloom its not gonna be the same one

[tropic arrow]

Or, that's how I understood it

[lucid dirge]

yeah thats what i was thinking too but i guess im wrong 😭

[dreamy steppe]

thats what i thought as well but its not necessarily out of the question that there could be more

[tropic arrow]

There could be more, yes

[trim egret]

I found that very interesting, it's as if the abyss is a physical place, inside earth

[dapper willow]

I think the whole godhome is just a shared mindscape for all the scattered godseekers

[neat sandal]

But She also couldn't witness it

[lucid dirge]

i feel like godhome is just completely fucked if we go with the etv ending though so we would probably need another way to get pantheon of pharloom

[brisk finch]

Hornet was in Godhome

[tropic arrow]

Point remains either way: TC could reuse Godseeker/have another Godseeker for Silksong, but I personally think they would do boss rush in Skong via something else, something new

[dreamy steppe]

i was actually surprised to not find them anywhere in pharloom. a lot of the designs in the citadel look incredibly similar to theirs

[brisk finch]

DF

[lucid dirge]

like yea delicate flower banishes the void back to the abyss but what about the godhome inside godseekers mind 😭

[dreamy steppe]

especially the enemies in the vaults

[brisk finch]

Banished it from there too

[dreamy steppe]

i thought that the fat one WAS a godseeker at first

[tropic arrow]

She couldn't have witnessed the Pale King's death either

But she is smart enough to piece together what happened when the infection disappears while she is chilling in the temple

[elder nymph]

I think it makes up the core of their world. Just a thought I've been trasing

[dapper willow]

the best idea I have heard is her reenacting it with trobio

[brisk finch]

Honestly, now that I'm thinking about it
It's not impossible that DF ending exists because of early Silksong concepts

[lapis geode]

Also, one thing I disappointed is
the fact that they don't make Lace as an NPC that we can met after the ending...

I mean, they cannot do that for Hollow Knight since he is dead in all ending. But they COULD make
Lace like Shakra, yes?

[brisk finch]

Like, let's establish what the flower actually does

[trim egret]

Yes, that's what I thought

[trim egret]

Woah, that's amazing

[dreamy steppe]

wtf does df stand for

[tropic arrow]

Ok I need you to tell me, what does DF stand for

[neat sandal]

Then same with other ending.

[dire lynx]

hes alive in both godhome endings

[brisk finch]

Delicate Flower, the alternate ending to ETV where you gave the physical godseeker a flower before finishing p5

[lucid dirge]

new npc called silkseeker and he just REALLY REALLY wants silk and the godhome is replaced with silkhome 🔥

[tropic arrow]

Sure. My point is simply that her line "By my experience, even gods can fall" has to be referring to Radiance

[lucid dirge]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[dreamy steppe]

ah okay

dude i think that ending would be even worse storytelling

[brisk finch]

DF is my preferred branch off for etv with silksong out, because it ties neatly into skong's conclusion

It shows off the flower's effects, also introduces the shade lord

[dreamy steppe]

not only does the knight ignore its main quest, it just disappears completely

[trim egret]

I found lace to be pretty marginal given her spot in the story and in marketing. You encounter her only a couple times outside of boss fights, idk...

[dreamy steppe]

i feel like that ending only existed to clarify possibilities of the void and the flower

[brisk finch]

It gets banished
We've now seen even more of the flower
it cannot completely remove, only protect to an extent

[tropic arrow]

I do feel like one or two more Lace encounters outside of fights would have went a long way

[brisk finch]

This is why I feel like it may have been included specifically for silksong
Or well, the early story they were building

[lucid dirge]

okay dude I already said this but u cant ignore the main quest for godhome in the story 😭 you literally need the void heart to gain access to POH and by the time you get it you have already done everything required

[lapis geode]

That's fair though.

[dreamy steppe]

i mean it disappears from hallownest sorry. like it just leaves the infection to get worse

[brisk finch]

You also need to have fought basically all the bosses already anyway for p5!

[lucid dirge]

so etv requires you to do the main plot anyway and you cant ignore it

[lucid dirge]

yeah that too (except grimm

[brisk finch]

Yeah, back into the void
Where we see it in silksong

[dapper willow]

you encounter her about the same amount as hornet up to act 3

[elder nymph]

Did they retcon the flower?

[dreamy steppe]

yeah i think it is just so we have context for future events

[trim egret]

Yeah, agreed

[brisk finch]

it's kinda sad you don't get the bridge encounter if you fight her

[dreamy steppe]

ok yeah but hallownest is just left to rot?

[brisk finch]

Or that you don't see her killing enemies like sentinal, or garmond and zaza

[tropic arrow]

I do like how the parallels between Lace and Pure Vessel only serve to highlight their contrasts even more

[brisk finch]

No? The Radiance is gone?

[trim egret]

Yeah, but hornet wasn't very central in hk story right? Or it was teased or marketed that way. Lace seemed to be more important, or present from what we saw before game released

[dreamy steppe]

OH YEAH

[dapper willow]

honestly if the bridge encoutner had differnt dialouge after you beat her in deep docks it would be even better

[brisk finch]

And so is the void
There is no ending in which ghost helps rebuild or whatever

[dreamy steppe]

SORRY UR RUGHT

[neat sandal]

They will went to dive bell together to get to surface

[brisk finch]

OH DID YOU FORGET

[lucid dirge]

radiance is dead bro 😭

[elder nymph]

Didn't the flower make the void and thing dissappear and the flower wilted slightly

[dreamy steppe]

YES

[brisk finch]

LMAO THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE

[dapper willow]

its not like i don't want to see more of her

[dreamy steppe]

I HAVENT PLAYED IN SO LONG

[brisk finch]

OKAY YE NO REMEMBER HOW THE VEINS LOSE THEIR ORANGE HUE?

Okay that makes soooo much sense

[tropic arrow]

She is THE final boss and a rather large reason for why most of the events of the game happen. That's about as important as you can get.

[dreamy steppe]

ok yeah i guess with the radiance being dead thats actually like the best ending

[brisk finch]

You kill her in p5, she's stronger but so are you

That's why the hollow knight gets to just be free

[dreamy steppe]

thk can make a new kingdom ^_^

[brisk finch]

YOU SEE THE VISION

[whole hawk]

Best art of Act 3 is they reintroduced the dream nail mechanic. So they can pretty much go ham with whatever DLC content they want.

[trim egret]

It's just that you don't encounter her much, not much dialogue, that's what I'm saying

[brisk finch]

PLEASE LET IT BE HAPPY AND VIBEY

[dire lynx]

my dream HK game is this

[lucid dirge]

dawg he can BARELY WALK BY USING HIS NAIL AS A STICK 🥀 🥀 HE AINT MAKING SHIT

[dreamy steppe]

ok im liking this now that would be so good

[dreamy steppe]

ok he just woke up hes still tired

[brisk finch]

It seems fairly fine in etv/df, ready to fight at least

[tropic arrow]

the monkey's paw curls, Hollow Knight had lost it's mind too much in this time and Hornet ended up having to kill it

[lucid dirge]

silksong dlc reveals thk is actually in a wheelchair

[dreamy steppe]

dont be mean

[brisk finch]

That's with the infection completely purged

[dire lynx]

he just needs some time to recover

[elder nymph]

Think we will see any new zones?

[brisk finch]

I'll take it, that means it's alive

[tropic arrow]

possible

[lucid dirge]

he was just aura farming okay 🥀

[tropic arrow]

Elegy of the Deep allows them to do... a lot

[dreamy steppe]

ok now im thinking more ok ok no yeah ok

[brisk finch]

Possibly, if they cut something they actually really liked and want to include it as a dream

[dreamy steppe]

i want thk to be alive i love the,m

[brisk finch]

yes

[tropic arrow]

TEAM CHERRY, GIVE ME CITY OF STEEL AND MY LIFE IS YOURS

[lucid dirge]

sands of karak unfucked and lifeblood spire 🌹

[trim lark]

citadel caste question
we know what the architects and keepers do, they make shit and store stuff respectively

fuck do the conductors do
i initially thought they mightve been some sort of super tough soldiers at the top of the choir, but im not too sure

[dreamy steppe]

plsplspls

[brisk finch]

I think Lifeblood Spire's odds are bad (it doesn't appear beyond that map), but I could see a coral memory

[trim egret]

I think so, they got all the money and time in the world now. I know they are passionate, I think they wanna add stuff to the game

[brisk finch]

They rule

[tropic arrow]

It's sorta in the name. They make the songs and what not.

That said, they became the ruling caste after the Weavers passed down their rule to them

[brisk finch]

It appears the conductors were the ruling class for a while

[dreamy steppe]

playing steel soul mode in silksong brings a bunch of new steel city people into the game right

[trim egret]

Also, guys, no one talking about the fact that we saw surface!? I think that will be a major thing in dlcs!

[brisk finch]

It depends on how they feel about the current state of the game

[dreamy steppe]

i havent done it yet

[tropic arrow]

Somehow, the Citadel got even worse under their rule, which has to be an achievement of sorts

[lucid dirge]

i still think it has a lot of potential for revealing what lifeblood actually is since wormways shows us what it actually does 🌹
i also want the poop city back idc if its a joke area and theres nothing in it i just want the poop town

[brisk finch]

I'm also trying to guess like, where the "holes" are?
Like HK blatantly had something missing from the Hive
Bam, dlc boss

[elder nymph]

Wait what

[lucid dirge]

BRING BACK POOP TOWN

[brisk finch]

For silksong, I can only really think of possibly Coral, Pilby and Huntress if they live, Gilly
all tiny tjings

[trim egret]

I think surface is the thing

[lucid dirge]

no only 1 quest that gives an infinite shards item 😭 but it does reveal lore about the steel city

[tropic arrow]

Whiteward 🤝 Soul Sanctum

Making horrors by messing with forces you should not mess with

[dreamy steppe]

im not sure but i know in the trailers there was an enemy made of steel

[dreamy steppe]

bruh.

[brisk finch]

something akin to steel soul jinn and a fleeing assistant to them who summons the Summoned Saviour, a hard bossfight against a void blob with vessel masks

[lucid dirge]

soon enough poop town will join that duo....BELIEVE IT!

[trim egret]

Isn't it in steel soil mode?

[trim lark]

silksong has been in the oven for a HOT minute
the only thing i could really think of would be coral gouge which was mostly cut
ohyeah and steel assassins

[lucid dirge]

no 🥀

[tropic arrow]

Though frankly, I find Whiteward much scarier than Soul Sanctum

[dreamy steppe]

yeah thats what i was saying

[brisk finch]

Nope, Shale and his crew are gone from tjhe game

[trim egret]

Oh okay, didn't play it yet

[tropic arrow]

the "OST" is very unnerving, not to mention that damn psalm cylinder in Whiteward

[brisk finch]

But Shale is a backer character so he'll be back

[dreamy steppe]

wat..

[brisk finch]

Different character

[dreamy steppe]

i need to play this

[lapis geode]

Which one?
All are eerie

[elder nymph]

So Steel mode has more nocx and bosses?

[brisk finch]

This is summoned saviour btw

[trim lark]

whiteward fr has an analog horror cylinder for some fucking reason 💔

[dreamy steppe]

?

[brisk finch]

2 npcs and 1 boss

[lucid dirge]

its def the enemy design
a lot of them are literally cut in half and using it to their advantage unlike the guys in soul sanctum which were just fat and round and sometimes ghost creature things surrounded by dead bodies

[trim egret]

Team cherry still obeying to kickstarter goals from more than 10 years a go makes me lough

[tropic arrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpPlGcq4Q3k

[brisk finch]

the trailer steel character from the announcement isn't in anymore, they were a part of Shale's crew
the steel soul people are different

[trim lark]

isnt their name sharpe why are they shale now

[lapis geode]

Just this?
I heard there is that one guy that made of metal that you can't get silk by hitting it. I still looking for it though

[elder nymph]

Not sure how I won't die yet, but I'll have to try

[lucid dirge]

steel city dlc that will also act as a void dlc and give us more content 🙏

[dreamy steppe]

who the fuck is shale

[brisk finch]

WHY DO I KEEP MIXING THAT UP

[trim lark]

lmao

[brisk finch]

YES IT'S SHARPE

[lucid dirge]

JUST IGNORE IT SHE HAS BEEN MAKING THAT MISTAKE FOR HOURS NOW

[dreamy steppe]

WHO IS SHARPE.

[brisk finch]

Can I please have an auto replacer for the name Shale

[trim lark]

kickstarter character

[tropic arrow]

Cut character mentioned in dev logs and what not I think

[dreamy steppe]

man that sucks

[brisk finch]

Backer character cut from the game (for now)

[lucid dirge]

cut character + the steel guys in the reveal trailer are his drones/team im p sure

[dreamy steppe]

the thing i was the most hyped for was fighting these guys

[tropic arrow]

He is a kickstarter character, and TC has always followed up on Kickstarter promises thus far, so he will most certainly be added back in at some point

[trim lark]

sharpe was supposed to be pursuing hornet along 2 buddies, 1 of which we can see in an early trailer

[brisk finch]

Steel Assassin Sharpe and his buddies, the big one is seen in the announcement trailer in the coral scene, shooting the laser blast

[trim lark]

and though theres the INCREDIBLY tiny chance that the backer themself cut sharpe, its unfortunately possible

[elder nymph]

The 3 murder bots from MMX2

[trim egret]

Is there a list of complete things still missing from kickstarter? (Apart from wii u version😅 )

[tropic arrow]

I wonder if all 3 or just Sharpe is made of void

[lucid dirge]

i miss him 😭

[elder nymph]

I swear if they have pieces of HK's mask and we have to recover them or fight an evil HK I will lose my mind

[brisk finch]

Not that I know of. I think there may be an old reddit post from the HK days though, so if you can mentally update that with your knowledge of silksong, you should be good

[trim lark]

man i really want coral gouge
i know it wouldnt really make sense lorewise of thematically in the real pharloom but man 🥹

[lucid dirge]

i didnt see the small one ever but the big one looks too much like a robot for me

[trim egret]

You asking too much to my brain

[brisk finch]

Cut in 2021 according to the acmi maps, although harsh cuts go back to 2019 basically

[dreamy steppe]

the only silksong trailer i ever saw was the one with the big guy and throughout my entire play through i was looking for the coral area so i could fight it and now im learning they arent even in the game im gonna cry

[trim lark]

there are actually 3 warriors spirit bosses unaccounted for, though its very possible they just never made em

like the backers just never made the warrior spirits

[brisk finch]

I had the reverse, I found Karmelita's statue and (forgetting she';s a backer character) assumed she;d been cut

[tropic arrow]

The cut ending in the files is still the most interesting thing to me

[lucid dirge]

dlc where we go outside pharloom and we go in the sea and we get coral gouge 2.0 🌹

[elder nymph]

Can the first DLC be Hallownest?

[dreamy steppe]

?

[lucid dirge]

IM STILL CONVINCED THERES GOING TO BE CONTENT RELATED TO LEAVING PHARLOOM

[tropic arrow]

I wonder if that just used to be the "normal" ending, before being replaced by Weaver Queen, or was something else

[dreamy steppe]

what ending

[tropic arrow]

There is a cut ending in the files, full with achievement and cutscene

[brisk finch]

I've seen the theory that it could be a matter off Hornet leaving the kingdom
She gets caught and absorbed

[trim lark]

theres an odd cut datamined ending

[elder nymph]

If we leave

[dreamy steppe]

honestly same i feel like thats the biggest hole

[tropic arrow]

I don't think it is, the achievement description for the ending says "defeat Grand Mother Silk", from what I heard

[lucid dirge]

leaving pharloom dlc and it has coral gauge 🌹 MANIFESTING...........

[brisk finch]

Ending Strung to Serve

[trim egret]

Yes, there is a lore tablet/rune mentioning places away from pharloom and also, there is surface which I continue to think will play a major role in dlcs

[lucid dirge]

im convinced surface will be related to the steel city

[dire lynx]

the map under the running charm...

[trim lark]

first dlc i want is godhome equivalent

[trim egret]

Oh wow, can you explain? I didn't know about that

[tropic arrow]

I think Strung to Serve just used to be the ending for binding Grand Mother Silk, but was replaced with Weaver Queen, so as to have a more ambigious ending

[brisk finch]

"Defeat Grand Mother Silk" yep, axctually

[trim egret]

Bro, I'm so behind on lore, what is steel city?

[tropic arrow]

Better than explain, I can show

[brisk finch]

Strung to Serve
Defeat Grand Mother Silk
It's shown in a lot of the day 1 "all ending" videos

[tropic arrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV2p_4Pekzk

[trim egret]

Thank you my man

[elder nymph]

So Hornet breaks out of the coccon and the threads go away and done, yeah?

No. Feed Pharloom to the Abyss

[tropic arrow]

Again, my take is that this used to be the normal ending, until being replaced by Weaver Queen

[trim lark]

theres a lore thingy in the cradle that lists the commandments that dictated where they captured weavers + other details

one of these is a weaver from the city of steel

[lapis geode]

We also lost this area

[trim lark]

thus far steel has been like exclusively used in relation to steel and its odd characters so its reasonable

[lucid dirge]

its mainly explored in the steel soul mode so its okay but
remember the steel guys in the trailer and sharpe? they come from there
they are heavily related to the void
and im pretty sure theres a lot of hints of it being located above the cradle ( where the surface is)

[dreamy steppe]

is this the datamined ending what is this

[brisk finch]

Seems to be more for the Ants
We also lost the big wormways spitter guys in Clover Area/Verdania
Purple abyss spitter
Belllls

[elder nymph]

I know the dancer ant is in the game but I swear I never fought her on my first playthrough

[tropic arrow]

This is in the game

[lucid dirge]

no thats the ending for beating gms while cursed

[trim lark]

im pretty sure this is just old hunters march
you can even see this bridge in hunters march when you open it up in act 3

[elder nymph]

And I got the momento for the hearts

[brisk finch]

Twisted Child, beat mother silk game cursed

[trim egret]

Oh ye, I remember something

[dreamy steppe]

cursed..?

like with the parasite yeah?

[trim lark]

i feel like the bells area were for a cut bellveins area

[trim egret]

Infected ending

[tropic arrow]

As mentioned, Steel City is where the Steel Assassins, that got cut, come from, and also where the Steel Soul NPCs come from. From what we can tell, it has a fairly totalitarian regime, and the Void is common enough knowledge that a lowly servant can illegaly learn void rituals.

[elder nymph]

I feel like there is more to this to come

[lucid dirge]

no im pretty sure we did kinda lose this
it looks like past hunters march and to me it looks like the way to get to the skarrsinger fight

[trim lark]

it IS the way its the same bridge but theres no hole now

[lucid dirge]

like if you look in the bg + the fact that a skarrguard is guarding the entrance it looks like its the way to get to some ant city place

[trim egret]

Thanks for the insight, I will play steel soul shortly

[dreamy steppe]

with the parasite form that one npc?

[lucid dirge]

yes

[dreamy steppe]

that npc was one of the most interesting things to me

[trim egret]

Yes, if you beat the game while infected

[dreamy steppe]

what kind of bug even are they

[brisk finch]

Get infected (preferably after fighting Lace2) and beat GSM

[tropic arrow]

They seem to be a Root, like the White Lady

[dreamy steppe]

OHHHHHHHHSHSZZ

[lucid dirge]

someone mentioned that they look kind of like the white queen and i can kind of see it
lots of roots and trees

[dreamy steppe]

THAT MAKES SSNESE

[trim lark]

and the bud is made of what ashen wood?
or something like that

[dreamy steppe]

i hope we get dlc about more of their whole thing

[tropic arrow]

The snail village thing also got cut

[trim egret]

Yeah, I don't think it's a gimmick, it must be important the parasite

[dreamy steppe]

oh yeah true

[lucid dirge]

you mean poop city?

[trim lark]

feel like it was supposed to be in coral gouge and got cut alongside it

[dire lynx]

copy and pasted from earlier, but my thoughts on the infected ending:
the twisted child ending along with how the witches crest makes your HUD look has led me to the theory that the white lady was born from a similar process and is the same species as that baby parasite root thing.
Specifically if it parasitises a pale being

[dreamy steppe]

ok where can i see the datamined ending that people were talking about

[lucid dirge]

are we talking about this rn

[tropic arrow]

I posted a link earlier

[lapis geode]

Waiiiiitt... that makes more sense

[lucid dirge]

BRING BACK POOP CITY

[tropic arrow]

^^

[dreamy steppe]

coul u forward it

oh ok thanks

[trim lark]

actually looks pretty similar to that one scene of the cragglites

[trim egret]

Link above

[trim egret]

.

[dreamy steppe]

isnt that kind of just the same as the act 2 ending

[brisk finch]

That seems to have been positioned above Verdania, right of Bilewater
verdania is first mentioned on the (acmi) maps as "bay?", and the hermit poop area was a docks or bay of some kind
So they could be connected

[brisk finch]

Nope, it shows the bugs being reinfected

[lucid dirge]

I WANT POOP CITY BACK

[idle veldt]

||What was the First Sinner's skin||

[lucid dirge]

FUCK TEAM CHERRY

[dreamy steppe]

isnt that what happens already?

[brisk finch]

And we know the bay is Verdania, because the text on the map states that it's Verdania's first mention, so it's not a name reuse thing

[brisk finch]

Not like this

[idle veldt]

Do I not need spoiler mark here?

[lucid dirge]

no

[dire lynx]

no

[lucid dirge]

only in the help channels

[dreamy steppe]

i guess but it kind of looks like its the same ending just changed a little

[lucid dirge]

it kind of is which is why i think they cut it

[dreamy steppe]

like all you do is kill mother silk in act 2

[dreamy steppe]

yeah same

[brisk finch]

Could be, but this is B and made it to the naming phase

[dreamy steppe]

true true true

[brisk finch]

I do think it got cut for redundancy, but I think they were meant to stand side by side like Sealed Siblings

[dreamy steppe]

maybe steel soul ending?

[lucid dirge]

are we even SURE this is just for beating gms?

[naive crag]

it looks like gms awoke in some way

[idle veldt]

What sin did the First Sinner commit?

[naive crag]

apostasy

[brisk finch]

That is the only text for it in the files

[dreamy steppe]

no but the scream is seemingly hers and considering its an ending it probably had something to do with her

[lucid dirge]

being the best boss in the game

[brisk finch]

It's not a guess, the text still exists

[dreamy steppe]

apostacy. she fought against the ruling religion

[brisk finch]

It's B

[lucid dirge]

honestly judging by the title it seems more like an ending in which gms wins in some weird way? like "strung to serve" could also be about hornet and not just the pilgrims being haunted now

just speculation though

[tropic arrow]

from what I heard, there is an achievement image for this

[brisk finch]

wait a sec
ye it doesn't say bind her power

[tropic arrow]

Do you have that image?

[brisk finch]

I've heard of it, but I don'thave any images

[dreamy steppe]

oh well then it looks like you just dont bimd her power

[quartz salmon]

Is this a cut ending?

[lucid dirge]

yea

[dreamy steppe]

like you just sit there

[brisk finch]

Currently inaccessible

[tropic arrow]

I still think it just used to be the default ending for defeating Grand Mother but was cut

[quartz salmon]

Interesting

[brisk finch]

You know what, ye that make sense even in the context of HK
you can totally mess Hornet's plan up

[dreamy steppe]

i think so too. maybe at first you werent going to bind her power or something

[brisk finch]

She has cut dialogue in HK urging you to just... do the thing, ghost cmon

[dreamy steppe]

yeah lmfao

[dreamy steppe]

LOL?

[lucid dirge]

maybe you were supposed to learn how to bind her power or something? and you needed to bind all weaver abilities first but then they decided to scrap it?

IDFK its just weird to me

[dreamy steppe]

yeah maybe

[brisk finch]

"Do it! Make your choice. My thread will only hold so long.

Prolong our world's stasis or face the heart of its infection."

[dreamy steppe]

💔 💔 💔

[brisk finch]

It's cut, but I do like the implication that the Knight took a moment to decide the odds
Become the next big vessel or fight the Radiance one on one

[dreamy steppe]

im thinking about what holes there are in silksongs map and im thinking maybe an interesting dlc feature would be allowing you to explore current verdania

[neat sandal]

So it like sealed sibling. You defeat her and just wait

[brisk finch]

That's how I'm currently choosing to interpret the info we have

[dreamy steppe]

unless im really stupid you cant do that currently

[brisk finch]

You cannot

[quartz salmon]

I might be wrong but isn't the memento achievement unused?

[brisk finch]

We only know about this ending because people datamined this game day 1

[dreamy steppe]

that pmo so bad i spent like 20 minutes trying to find what i was missing

[lucid dirge]

i think exploring current verdania is just

[brisk finch]

yes it is what

[lucid dirge]

the shitty little tunnel we have 😭

[brisk finch]

I didn't even think about that

[lucid dirge]

like they wiped that shit out bro

[dreamy steppe]

is the rest of it just caved in? id imagine theres gotta be a little more there

[brisk finch]

I think Verdania is fine as it is
It's tragic, we get to see the proper tile sets in action
Two bosses

We kill the rulers completely

Coral I can see, but Verdania gets its grande goodbye

[dreamy steppe]

yeah i think its fine as is but they could definitely add more if they wanted

id love to see what it looks like for a higher being to destroy a whole town

[brisk finch]

They could, but I feel like they would've written it differently if they wanted to
Mind you, I can always see this becoming a Hive Knight situation

[quartz salmon]

If the dlc takes a direction of exploring the past more I think it's gonna be in the other areas and not expanding the ones we go to

[lucid dirge]

i feel like we should just be able to revisit dream places atleast

[brisk finch]

I do think Coral has also lost the fight, yes

[lucid dirge]

and expand them with items maybe or something

[brisk finch]

I can def see them add a way to go back to the dreams, just for Palestag

[lucid dirge]

i was running into walls in verdania like a moron expecting to find something but no

[brisk finch]

Garmond and Zaza, Shakra and Palestag are the only missable fights in the entire game

[dreamy steppe]

wdym a hive knight situation? did they change anything other than just adding him in

[lucid dirge]

i thought palestag was required ??

[naive crag]

palestag isnt missable

[brisk finch]

That's what I'm referring to, ye
Hive was empty, so they added a boss

[brisk finch]

Yes he is. You don't need all the essence

[dreamy steppe]

YOU CAN FIHHT CHAKRA...?

[naive crag]

you can get all 4 hearts

[brisk finch]

Unrelated to what I said

You can fight Clovers without Palestag

That's the "issue"

[quartz salmon]

I would like to see the Citadel in its prime, or Bilewater when it wasn't dirty

[brisk finch]

I didn't miss it, but plenty did

[naive crag]

you can?

[brisk finch]

Yep

[dreamy steppe]

yeah i think theyd do a similar thing here where you can go through the ruins of verdania and fight some sort of boss or just get a tool or something

[brisk finch]

So that's 3 missable bossfights in the entire game
And that feels a tad silly

[dreamy steppe]

not anything crazy id just like to see the ruins

[trim egret]

oh, question, is it possible to enter citadel from putrid ducts?

[teal drift]

They should reveal bilewater was actually even dirtier before the cutadel.

[lucid dirge]

"citadel in its prime" and its just 1940 germany 😭

[dreamy steppe]

this

me too

[brisk finch]

I'm especially sad about Garmond and Zaza, because I have literally everything else
They don't count for the journal, but I wanted that friendly rooftop spar!

instead I got sadness

[dreamy steppe]

i want to know more about thr fat aristocrat who you need to make the food for

[teal drift]

They should patch in a secret obscure third way into act 2 to gaslight fans

[dreamy steppe]

not that one in specific but just the aristocracy in general

[brisk finch]

I did a big double check before going into act 3, and at that point youcan still fight shakra but not them
They refuse to leave their corner of songclave

[lucid dirge]

Boy

[teal drift]

His needolin dialogue reveals a lot about his motives

[brisk finch]

What did you say lol

[lucid dirge]

i genuinely dont even know what was wrong with what i said

[dreamy steppe]

oh i never checked his ill go read it ra

[brisk finch]

(don't actually repeat, I'm just surprised at the message)

[brisk finch]

Were you pinging me, btw? I saw a popup for a micro second

[lucid dirge]

it was a reply about being sad that beating the lost versions of garmond doesnt also give you his normal entry

I JUST REALIZED WHAT IT CENSORED 😭

[brisk finch]

Right? I get it, but maaaaan
let me fight him

[teal drift]

Lmao im like half joking but the relationship between the aristocrat and servant is very clear in the needolin, and to clarify: i dont think hes an aristoctat.

You guys didnt heal garmond with the pickled muckmaggot?

[brisk finch]

I felt so bad for the guy because my hc is that he used to serve some real aristrocrat and this is his coping

[lucid dirge]

the what

[brisk finch]

No I took Zaza home instead

[teal drift]

Bro is too crazy to be haunted

Oh okay good.

[lucid dirge]

me smoking the zaza

[teal drift]

They need to patch in taking zaza home.

[dreamy steppe]

ok nvm its not on any wiki

[brisk finch]

Okay so
loose ends
Living Pilby
living Huntress
Gilly (but more minor)
Zaza

[teal drift]

Tldr its a big joke

[brisk finch]

characters that either just cease to exist or
really really should have an ending of some kind

[lucid dirge]

how do u get living huntress

i didnt even check if shes dead on my save

[brisk finch]

You finish her quest
if you don't, her brood eat her and the final runt asks you to do the quest instead

[quartz salmon]

By doing her quest

[dreamy steppe]

tell me what it says plsplsplsss

[teal drift]

The servant goes:
“such divine pallette”
“Such refinement”
“Such grace”

The “aristocrat” says:
“HUNGRY”
“FOOD”
“MORE HUNGRY”

[dreamy steppe]

WHAT.

[teal drift]

And its sung like a duet

[lucid dirge]

OH okay i guess she lives for me then

[dreamy steppe]

NO?

[teal drift]

Its hilarious lmao

[brisk finch]

If you finish her quest properly she just disappears from the game entirely in act 3
If she dies, her runt stays behind so you can do the wish, but that means killing her nets you 1) a satisfying conclusion 2) a new character

[dreamy steppe]

thats so good

he truly is an aristocrat

[brisk finch]

And Pilby just disappears after Pilgrim's Rest
And I genuinely dislike that bit, tbh

Why does he even move to begin with? Why let him live?

[quartz salmon]

I didn't know he could move on from Bone Bottom

[brisk finch]

There is nothing for Pilby after that and all it does is raise questions
it's possible they'll add more, but there isn't more in this release

[lucid dirge]

bro i know for a fact that ur trolling but like

[brisk finch]

I've checked every string

[lucid dirge]

WHY pickled muckmaggot 😭

[brisk finch]

smelling salt

[lucid dirge]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-no-future-drake-life-is-good-high-off-life-gif-18160700

WHY DIDNT I THINK OF THAT

[dreamy steppe]

do we know what the purpose of the pilgrims journey is? obviously they turn into citadel guys but why do they have to do such a difficult hike to get there

[quartz salmon]

I think it's just to show that like yeah you didn't get to know him, he's just another passing Pilgrim that goes up and disappears

But if you talk more and get to know his name now he's your acquaintance and stays in the village, leading to the emotional goodbye

[lucid dirge]

oh yeah what about the merchant in bone bottom? where the fuck did bro go 😭

[brisk finch]

No? You can learn his name in Pilgrim';s Rest

[lucid dirge]

i havent found him ever since he left

[brisk finch]

See what I mean?

[quartz salmon]

You can?

Then I don't know

[brisk finch]

I watched my friend do it

Pilby's story if he dies is satisfying and sad

Pilby's story if he lives is???

[dreamy steppe]

if u buy all of their stuff then they say that they are gonna go to the citadel so they probably just died on the way

[brisk finch]

And that is what annoys me

[dire lynx]

aye, its getting late here. goodnight all :]

[dreamy steppe]

goonight

[brisk finch]

Sleep well!

And it's not just Pilby. The same happens with Huntress. Zaza doesn't die, but just doesn't get to move at all. It would be better if they stopped moving and died after a scene transition/reload

And yeah I get it, there's a point to the tragedy in death, but this leaves the living variants just unfinished feeling to me

[dreamy steppe]

can we get a pillby bossfight pls

[brisk finch]

More effort and more emotional investment (talking to npcs to load the next friendship point) leads to less results

And not in a funny karmic way

[lucid dirge]

pibby glitched pilby 💀

[brisk finch]

(Like, if talking to Pilby meant he died to the Rhino, but he lives if he stays in BB, then that'd be sad and interesting)

[quartz salmon]

I know they probably won't do this but I want to repair bellhart a second time in the future

[brisk finch]

Bellhart and the Survivor's Camp, ay

[lucid dirge]

more donation quests

WHAT ABOUT BONE BOTTOMMMMMM

[brisk finch]

I want Pavo to leave his Sad Sprite and Flick is genuinely, unironically my favorite character in the game

[dreamy steppe]

i want more neighbors

[brisk finch]

Beating out Shakra and Eira and Sherma

And Lace

[lucid dirge]

wait

where the fuck is flick after act 3

[plain moon]

the main character name in silksong is ||hornet||

[brisk finch]

Survivor's Camp, where the fleas first spawned

[lucid dirge]

OHHHHHHHHH

[brisk finch]

Mods????

[dreamy steppe]

waow

[brisk finch]

Yeah like! He lives!

[lucid dirge]

opening the game rn i gotta visit him 🥀

[brisk finch]

You can bring bellhart supplies

It's genuinely a nice bit of acknowledgement
I just wish I could do something for them

Same with Bellhart, of course

[lucid dirge]

i lowk didnt give a fuck about the supply quests after doing the unique ones cuz i was always stacked

[brisk finch]

I mean, there is that unused vertical part of the Bellhart map, maybe we can fit some houses in there

[brisk finch]

I did all of the repeats once, to Have Done Them
but ye, I'm not doing radiant quests for money

Or maybe we can move the survivor's to fleatopia, give seth some non flea neighbors
or maybe we just build up the camp itself

I need an Act 3.5

The world being lost was fine in hk cause there was nothing we could do
but we can fix these circumstances, we already have

[somber temple]

guys im soo late in the third act and i still didnt get the craw summon, what do i do?

[quartz salmon]

Everyone is literally dead in bonebottom not a single bug left

Sadly

[lucid dirge]

HES ALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE

[lucid dirge]

did u visit the guy making silkeaters

[brisk finch]

Sit on a bench (it's not just bellhart, but I know for a fact bellhart works) log out while seated, log back in

[somber temple]

theyre just2

right? the one that gives long claw and one in sinnersa road

[lucid dirge]

only the sinners road one makes you silkeaters

[somber temple]

oh yeah i met him\

i havent went to him since act 2 ngl

[brisk finch]

You may wanna pay him a short visit, if only to pick up some silkeaters

[quartz salmon]

what??

where?

[brisk finch]

The cave where fleas first spawn

the supply missions call it the Survivor's Camp

[quartz salmon]

ohh shit

[brisk finch]

I want to help these people!

[quartz salmon]

need to find that now

[teal drift]

Did pebb ever go anywhere.

Or do we find their body or anything.

[white glacier]

WAIT THEY MOVED

[mystic crest]

I'm assuming spoilers are allowed here since this is the lore channel, or should i still tag things?

[teal drift]

No its spoilerfest

[brisk finch]

Pebb has no dialogue aside from what they have in BB itself

They're BB_Shopkeep

The name Pebb also doesn't show up

Aside from the name tag ofc

[teal drift]

Pebb noooo

I feel like they need to add pebbs corpse in somewhere to complete his story

[brisk finch]

That's a bit more forgivable to me than Pilby because it's just the one scene
but still odd

[brisk finch]

Oh, let me clarify: it's possible they have a corpse somewhere, but in that case, it's not interactable in a way that shows that in text

[teal drift]

Oh okay

[brisk finch]

I can just see the text strings

[teal drift]

Maybe someone will find pebb

[neat sandal]

Dude take my money and build himself his statue

[mystic crest]

has people already shared their thoughts here on the true ending then? because i might need to watch a video or two to understand whats actually happening now lol

[teal drift]

Rip king or queen idk their gender

[brisk finch]

You paid him for that icon of hope! He even used the leftovers to make you one!

[teal drift]

Lace resucue mission (gone wrong, gone right)

[lucid dirge]

its pretty straight forward

[teal drift]

I feel like the untrue ending is more ambiguous tbh

[brisk finch]

You enter a cocoon made by GSM to keep herself safe. A voided Lace attacks you (it's not really Lace, as she herself says before the dive)
you defeat her, which unvoids her (she's not a normal organic creature)
GSM gives Hornet the power to leave, presumably killing her
Little Ghost/The Knight from Hollow Knight saves Hornet and Lace when the Everbloom flower is overpowered by the void
They all make it back safely, the knight goes back to void napping

[teal drift]

Tbf lace could be lying about it not really being her

[brisk finch]

The visuals when the Knight is shown imply that Silksong follows the Embrace the Void/Delicate Flower/Godhome endings from Hollow Knight

[brisk finch]

Eh, she's calm as a spirit thing and once she's been saved, I don't see a reason for her to attack Hornet

Like ye physically it's her, but not in mind

[elder nymph]

Alls that tells me is the voidcrest exists and that vessel has it

[brisk finch]

Ghost clearly uses Wanderer Crest

XD

[elder nymph]

Doubtful

She doesnt use a needle

[brisk finch]

It doesn't, but the nail can do in a pinch
I've played as both, I can tell

[maiden meteor]

Crest is probably Weaver concept

[elder nymph]

They use pins

[maiden meteor]

Like Hornet is able to turn someone’s memory/skills into her own

[brisk finch]

Oh I agree, especially with how Eva responds to them

[elder nymph]

Pharloom is a pin based swordsmanship

[brisk finch]

Wait, who is the she here?

I was talking about Ghost/The Knight/The Vessel

[elder nymph]

Lace

Oh, my bad

[brisk finch]

lmao. But ye, you can see Lace's pin up close on the title screen, it looks neat but it's def its own thing

[maiden meteor]

I wonder if Hornet would be able to bind dead vessel

[elder nymph]

I like how the needle and pin persist regardless of the title screen you choose

Cradle casts webs on them and Abyss has the black tendrils

[brisk finch]

Hmm... I'm gonna say no, for Void reasons

[mystic crest]

i think the thing im most confused about in silksong is the location of where everything takes place, is the abyss just underground everywhere in the world?
Nameless Town I assume is maybe Dirtmouth though? at least thats what ive been hearing from some

[brisk finch]

But she could bind the beast from beast crest, so the source clearly doesn't have to be Weaver

[maiden meteor]

I sure hope we get Silksong version of Eternal Ordeal title screen

[brisk finch]

I'm assuming the abyss is everywhere, yes

[maiden meteor]

they MUST make one

[brisk finch]

Nameless Town as Dirtmouth makes no sense

Pharloom is not Hallownest

[elder nymph]

If that were the case then the 8 robot masters abilities are soon to follow:P

[brisk finch]

I've always been particular to Cutman, especially with his Battle Network non-redesign
Cut Crest, Hornet just uses the boomerang everywhere. 1 forced red slot, nothing else

[cursive sinew]

That sounds like said "some" have developed a world in their head where Silksong is an alternate reality of HK

Becuase they both exist, they are very far apart (hence the Phar part probably)

[maiden meteor]

Hornet does say that Abyss seems to be everywhere

[elder nymph]

How do you figure

[cursive sinew]

Wdym

[elder nymph]

Abyss is Christian hell in thr physical plane. Equivalent

Also, a carriage was taken from Hallownest to Pharloom

Just ignoring that?

[brisk finch]

nah, no religious connetations to match

The Snails aren't satanists

[elder nymph]

You misunderstood and I knew thst woukd happen. Again, my bad

[teal drift]

Tbh why can lace project herself as a spirit

[brisk finch]

Nameless Town as Dirtmouth only makes sense if you assume Pharloom is secretly Hallownest
Which makes 0 sense in every way

[maiden meteor]

they do sacrifice pilgrims tho

[elder nymph]

And no dude not at all what I meant

[brisk finch]

So do many religions

Or well, not the pilgrims thing
but neither do satanists

[lucid dirge]

dawg

[teal drift]

Lmao this thing hates you

[brisk finch]

m why does the bot hate you

could you express which word it keeps going for so I know to avoid it

[lucid dirge]

i LITERALLY searched up the word before i said it and there were a billion results

its literally racist towards me specifically

[naive crag]

do we know how the weavers made eva

[maiden meteor]

Weaver magic

[elder nymph]

FFS back in the day Christians believed if you dug down far enough you would actually reach hell.

[naive crag]

i wanna know more about her i love her

[teal drift]

Did it with a computer

[brisk finch]

She's not a normal bug, she's a creature of pure silk made by GSM
She's still a person, but if everyone was human, she still wouldn't be

[maiden meteor]

I mean weaver had Big Fucking Gun robots

and teleports

[teal drift]

Unironically i think they took their advanced machinery and embedded a soul in it

[brisk finch]

Nothing about any of the religions shown in either game implies christianity tho

This seems, if anything, closer to hollow earth theory, what with a lighthouse existing and benches

[maiden meteor]

Pale King is Christ analogy trust

[teal drift]

Tbf there is a holy trinity—lace, phantom, gms.

[brisk finch]

Like, not even with a new name. The set up of the religions are distinct

[brisk finch]

phantom was rejected???

this feels like a heresy

[elder nymph]

The point being the Abyss, aka Hell, aka THE CORE OF EARTH (is what they realized they were reaching).

The abyss is the core of whatever celestial body they exist on. Hallownest and Pharloom

[brisk finch]

I want to know what bible you read, for real

[maiden meteor]

Pale King is simultaneously God’s (Wyrm’s) child and piece of him

[teal drift]

Phantom was given a role even if they were rejected.

[elder nymph]

Ya'll grabbed the religious part way to fucking hard. Again. My bad

[maiden meteor]

and Spirit is uhhhhh idk

[brisk finch]

Even just that sentence is making my lore brain seethe lmao

[brisk finch]

the spirit is THK

that one's actually easy
the sacrificed child for the good of mankind

[elder nymph]

Hornet even says if she digs far enough down she'd find this stuff anywhere

[brisk finch]

WHY AM I MAKING THIS ARGUMENT

[maiden meteor]

We need to keep digging

[brisk finch]

We need to stop digging immediately

[teal drift]

The Knight breaking in to Jesus’ cave to replace him.

[maiden meteor]

Ari can’t hide his biblical analogies anymore

[brisk finch]

We have to leave the kitchen, stop cooking

[maiden meteor]

Radiance is Antichrist

[brisk finch]

Radiance is a preexisting pagan god

[elder nymph]

Fuck what have I done

[brisk finch]

Why am I still going

[teal drift]

Radiance is a humanitys sin that christ died to redeem. #blessed

[elder nymph]

Its funny

[brisk finch]

Mods pls ban me

[teal drift]

Idk why were all acting like this id a crazy convo its just analyzing stories with blatantly religious parallels in it.

[elder nymph]

Not sure how rhe alternate reality bit is entertained

[brisk finch]

Anyway uh, more seriously
There's obviously nothing wrong with reading religious subtext in a story literally about religion

But I don't think there's much use tying something like the Abyss, which seems to have more ties to a physical underworld like place
To the Christian hell

Pharloom is set up as Religion Central, but the abyss is much older and much more widespread

[maiden meteor]

Abyss doesn’t really punish sinners sooooo

[brisk finch]

Exactly, it is unrelated to a concept of the dead or the god the others are worshipping

[elder nymph]

It was never my intention, for the 200th time, to make the comparison of the Abyss to Hell. I was using past Christian mythos to compare locations. To give understanding when I should of just said the Abyss is the core of the world they inhabit.

[brisk finch]

You haven't actually made a point at all, to be fair

[maiden meteor]

Citadel tho seems to represent christian worldview tho

[brisk finch]

You just made one statement and then sat back

Core of the world isn't even hell either

[maiden meteor]

You have Heaven (Cradle), Purgatory (Underworks) and Hell (Slab)

[elder nymph]

You... you pick what you read huh

[brisk finch]

See, Slab as a punishment for sinners and thus a hell is a much better read in my opinion

Heaven is empty, purgatory and hell are full
This is the bad place

[brisk finch]

I am reading what you said and I genuinely cannot understand the point you are making in any way but the literal

[maiden meteor]

Heaven is basically a myth to sustain system

[brisk finch]

It doesn't make sense from a metaphorical perspective or as an example

[elder nymph]

You keep bringing hell back into the conversation

When I have repeatedly stated

[brisk finch]

The people in hell/the slab feel like they ought to be there, and so they do not take any offered escapes
Hell is what you make of it
Heaven is found when you help others, like Sherma in act 3

[brisk finch]

I'm now talking about the cradle-underworks-slab thing, not your concept

[elder nymph]

Since you butchered any discussion that could of happened. Sure, let's just move on

[somber fractal]

big black men

[brisk finch]

I didn't even come up with that idea either! To say I butchered the discussion when you refuse to just make a proper posts stating your point is hilarious

Just say what you mean without using other metaphors if you feel like your metaphors are misunderstood

I scrolled back up, I genuinely don't know what you mean

[elder nymph]

How many times must it be stated?

[brisk finch]

You keep repeating you've stated it before but you keep not stating it

[mystic crest]

the only thing i have to say about the slab is that first sinner is cool lol

maybe not in lore but thematically i love them

[brisk finch]

First Sinner is a dope boss fight with a dope ending cutscene and finding them where they are was a genuinely great moment

[naive crag]

why are there still weavers in hallownest

[brisk finch]

As far as we know there's just the one left+ Herrah

That one may have just felt escaping isn't worth it

[elder nymph]

Yes. That the world shares the Abyss. Hallownest and Pharloom exist at the same time. The Abyss connects all the kingdoms. It is the center point for the world that is Hallow Knight

[brisk finch]

What about this concept required bringing in metaphors and extra clarification? I feel like this is literally stated in game

[fiery quarry]

Since the mister mushroom ending says to be continued, Does that mean that we are really getting a hollow knight 3?

[brisk finch]

I'm sorry if you feel frustrated at people misunderstanding you, but yes. The abyss appears to be filling the core of the planet

[elder nymph]

People were having location issues.

[naive crag]

its weird she decided to stay there alone but i guess

[brisk finch]

When Mister Mushroom was added, HK was never intended to have a sequel ("perhaps in 10 years"), so I'm currently assuming it's there for the next team cherry project
Which could be hk3, but will probably not be

[stoic heath]

#Groaldidnothingwrong

[brisk finch]

#GroalAteThatSnail

[elder nymph]

How far into development are they into the next game ya think?

[brisk finch]

Probably basic concepting, they said that if they could travel back in time, they wouldn't remake HK but would instead just grab the next game off their list

[tired jungle]

#groalateasnailandsucks

[brisk finch]

So they may already have something

[stoic heath]

Hornet should’ve joined forces with Groal and should’ve sacked the Citadel

[teal drift]

Groal fans unite

[elder nymph]

Creative don't idle for long. I bet Silksong was gold years ago. I feel like we have a fairly fleshed out world

[brisk finch]

Nah, we have a chunk of their maps ocer the years

[wispy phoenix]

Guys quick question, are the red arcs on Trobbios face his eyes?? I always thought it was his mustach

[brisk finch]

These are the last 2 maps

Before Basically Final

[stoic heath]

Yeh

[mystic crest]

yeah genuinely my favorite boss in the game by far

[brisk finch]

They're very close, but even then not exact
And they don't show bug fixing/npcs/tools/other rewards

I don't know what this area is btw
It can't be Coral Gorge because that was taken out years before
But it disappeared after 2024

The rest of that map is almost identical on the grand scale

[stoic heath]

Hornet knows Mr Mushroom, the Steel Seers, Mask Makers, etc. Maybe Hallownest did have trade with other kingdoms

[brisk finch]

(I also didn't color it that way)

[wispy phoenix]

What😭

That just changed his whole image

[elder nymph]

How do crests work? We know they can augment your attacks. Is Hornrt just Soma Cruz now as well?

[stoic heath]

They’re far apart how is that a mustache they’re clearly eyes

[edgy barn]

I mean Mr Mushroom, Steel Soul Jin and the deepnest Mask Maker were all present in Hallownest

[elder nymph]

Is there only 1 mask maker?

[brisk finch]

This is not the same mask maker, but it does appear to just be a "normal" profession

[wispy phoenix]

Cuz it looked like Pringles face to me😭

[stoic heath]

The Pharloom Mask Maker knows a lot about Hornet too

[elder nymph]

You saw his eyes

[brisk finch]

hmm
is mask maker a species
or a Calling

[stoic heath]

Probably the latter?

[elder nymph]

He got the insight of Eva and was like, "you know I don't like this, Hornet"

[edgy barn]

I don´t think they are the same, more like Hornet recognized the mount fay one as a mask maker

[stoic heath]

The Pharloom Mask Maker says he’s mortal. I bet Mask Makers have long lifespans

[elder nymph]

Makes sense. Maybe each kingdom has 1

Time is a vague thing for Hallow Knight

[wary plover]

You mean hollow knight?

[edgy barn]

btw, the paint the Pharloom Mask Maker uses is described as a pale glaze

[elder nymph]

Probably

[wary plover]

Is there a mask maker in every pharloom?

[elder nymph]

I hope so

Imagine bugs without masks

[stoic heath]

Every Pharloom wdym

[brisk finch]

Day, today

remove anything this specific about time.

Hour

No specific time is ever perceptible. Enforces the idea of a world in stasis. 'An age ago' is okay.

Today

no days. its one long night
Devnotes for Hollow Knight

[wary plover]

There was one above the weaver nest remember

[brisk finch]

About time

[wary plover]

Hk2 it's about time

[elder nymph]

I approve

[edgy barn]

It still confuses me that there are "masks" as in, the bug's face, and then actual masks.

[stoic heath]

I wonder when mossbag is going to return

[wary plover]

It'll be funny if in the third game we visit a new pharloom and there's also a mask maker in a completely obscure place

[brisk finch]

These notes also have stuff like

Wood to Shellwood

Doesn't come up much, but this is probably what Zote's Nail is made from. Also what the beams in the mines are made from.

Rather

just check this hasn't been used too much by Ari.

Herrah

Talks about her history: As part of the agreement for her alliance and her role as a dreamer, King gave her a child (Hornet). Was she allowed to keep this child or was she taken away?

Gender notes

the hollow knights have no gender. Check for hims and hes. Is the Wyrm King gendered? probably. or is it that when the wyrm took king form it gained a gender?Hornet is the Gendered Child. She can be referred to as female.

[stoic heath]

A new Pharloom? You mean a new kingdom?

[brisk finch]

Just a fun mix of real lore, cut lore and guys writing their game

[wary plover]

Yes

[elder nymph]

Someone mentioned masks giving thought, I don't thing so. Higher beings are said to give thought. However, civilizations existed prior to the Pale King and, as far as we know, GMS haunting

[brisk finch]

Hornet removing Mask Maker's mask has Hornet mention she wants them Lucid

Which
Implications

[elder nymph]

YES

I said this days ago

[wary plover]

Is pharloom not just bug for kingdom?

[elder nymph]

He also says it's like, taboo or uncomfortable

[sharp topaz]

does anyone have the quote from hornet where she commented on higher beings?

[stoic heath]

No it’s the name of the kingdom/region

[brisk finch]

Nah, it was Loomland on early maps

[elder nymph]

Its a far away land about fabric

[edgy barn]

based on the dialogue of the original mask maker when you remove his mask, a mask can make you into someone very different from who you were originally.

[wary plover]

I thought it was called the citadel..., and the regions are called the moss land/midlands

[edgy barn]

The citadel is just a region in Pharloom

[wary plover]

So is pharloom the kingdom or is citadel the kingdom

[elder nymph]

Hallownest included Dirtmouth, City of Tears, etc.

[stoic heath]

The “country” is Pharloom

[brisk finch]

The Citadel of Song is the capital of the Kingdom of Pharloom

Or, the City of Song is the capital of Loomland, translated to beta talk

[stoic heath]

Like Hallownest was a “country”

[wary plover]

Okay that makes sense

[elder nymph]

Now, the ants were probably their own thing for sure

[brisk finch]

none of that actually changed, they just made it sound slightly less silly

[wary plover]

Hallownest was a country? , I just thought it was a path of pilgrimage and capital of trade

[elder nymph]

You have the Shellwood species too.

[brisk finch]

The Ants, Coral, Verdania
Shellwood, I'm not sure. It had a caretaker, but I don't think that was a rule per se

[elder nymph]

How many cultures exist in Pharloom?

[wary plover]

The kingdom or the region?

[elder nymph]

Khann wasn't an ant?

[wary plover]

No he was a crustacean

[stoic heath]

The Pale King wasn’t the only one in Hallownest, there also existed Unn, the Mantis Tribe, Deepnest, The Hive

[wary plover]

That's why they're called crusts

[brisk finch]

There is an ant fighting in his arena, but it looks distinct from the tribes Karmelita united

[elder nymph]

Gotcha

[edgy barn]

Coral Tower, the Skarr (ants), the roach herders, Verdania...Shellwood maybe?

[dull vine]

And the Judges

Sort of

[edgy barn]

Those are part of the citadel

[stoic heath]

The Judges were part of the Citadel order

[dull vine]

Oh got it

[stoic heath]

Wisp Thicket is its own thing too

[edgy barn]

yeah I forgot about them

the Burning Bugs

[elder nymph]

What about Underworks or even Deep Docks to a degree

[brisk finch]

I was talking about the Alita btw

[dull vine]

Uhh what about the bile water ninjas? Not the roach herders, the dudes in the north

[elder nymph]

We know they are in service to the citadel

[teal drift]

Underworks and docks were industrial areas in service to the citadel

[stoic heath]

And Groal’s Guerrilla forces in Bilewater

[dull vine]

Yea

[edgy barn]

The Stinklin I think they were called.

and the snail shamans also

[steel storm]

Bilewater folks are called stilkin if I recall

[dull vine]

So the Skarrs, Crusts, Crickets?, Stiltkin, Roach Herders, Burning Bugs, Pilgrims, Ascenders? Citadelers?, Deep Docks workers (related to the citadel but different) annndddd Bellhartians

[edgy barn]

Ascenders?

[stoic heath]

Craws too

[edgy barn]

Oh yeah I forgot they are sentient

[elder nymph]

Wow there are a lot

[dull vine]

The pilgrims that reach the citadel

[brisk finch]

I find it hard to tell how independent the Craws are
They have a "lord and justice" (Crawfather), but what was their connection to the Citadel's normal operations

[edgy barn]

I mean in Hallownest you had the Mantis, Hive, Deepnest, Moths, Mosskin, Shrooms and Shamans

[dull vine]

They’re kinda like the mafia. They might just be like, law enforcement for greymoor?

[elder nymph]

Maybe they had some agreement similar to the Mantis and PK

[dull vine]

And don’t forget the Fleas

[brisk finch]

Those aren't from Pharloom I think?

[teal drift]

Fleas are passing by anyways

[elder nymph]

Fleas are the gypsies

[teal drift]

I think craws were allowed to have their spot just because it was such a small area that letting them have it was no biggie

[brisk finch]

Please don't use that word

[stoic heath]

That’s not a nice word yeh

[brisk finch]

They don't have any of the racial connotations to say that they're roma (they're clearly more of a flea circus), so they're travelers

[steel storm]

Were the Pinstresses allied with the citadel in the past or do we think they were just a warrior sect that inhabited Pharloom in general without any particular affiliation to the citadel?

[teal drift]

Plus the east of the kingdom was less colonized overall it seems between bilewater far fields and the craws.

It seems second sentinel has pinstress attacks so possible they were vaguely aligned

[edgy barn]

They are only in the west side though.

[teal drift]

Or at least were around and inspired the second sentinel

[stoic heath]

We see the Pinstress and Seamstress’s dead sister in the Putrified Ducts and she made the Wreath of Purity

I’m surprised the Pinstress doesn’t have unique dialogue for wearing it

[teal drift]

The craws seem to have one island thats theirs so i think craws could have been independent. But they could just as easily have been an allied group

[edgy barn]

It's also worth pointing out that the only entrance to what was Verdania is in their territory

[brisk finch]

Might've been a combined force with the Forgot Their Name who kept track of the workers doing the thread respooling and stuff

[elder nymph]

What was top right of Craw Lake?

3 fold?

[brisk finch]

Threefold pin? ye

In a little hidden room

[elder nymph]

Nah nevermind. They'd have no reason to guard that

[brisk finch]

There's also thread storm up top

[elder nymph]

I was thinking they were defending something for the citadel, but no

[brisk finch]

hmmmm

What if they were guarding the remains of Lost Verdania?

[elder nymph]

Thread Storm if they knew about it

[brisk finch]

Not worth setting a real force on, but may as well keep give the annoying not-birds a job

[elder nymph]

But Verdania sounds way more likely

[brisk finch]

Jail the remaining prince, lock the borders

[elder nymph]

We mutilated royalty to make these mechanical dancers. We should probably cover this up

Didn't Green Prince have a direct involvement with that project though?

[brisk finch]

I thought the Lover Prince willingly did that?

Like, he was trying to save Verdania

[elder nymph]

And Greeny didnt stop him

[brisk finch]

Right, but I wouldn't say that specific bit is fully on the Citadelk

[edgy barn]

I think the craws were a tolerated force. The cost and difficulty of wiping them out wouldn't have been worth it for the citadel, and they weren't a real threat to its order. They might have been purposefully given Eastern Greymoor as a territory to prevent people from wandering into Old Verdania.

[elder nymph]

Idk, I think they went to the citadel for a solution, and what they got was a blessing surely

[teal drift]

Craws are also canonically tough cookies per shakra

[brisk finch]

The dancers... they were the last free act of my partner... Always hopeful. Always naive.His whole he gave, in desperate trade to see our own caves left safe. His shell and soul became the mould.So long, I dared not visit... Even as our lands fell to thread and ruin... Instead I wasted, a coward caged, too weak to witness his grace bound in parody so cruel.

[teal drift]

So not wasting resources to seize control of their tiny little region seems wise.

[brisk finch]

Trade

So the Lover Prince gave himself up for the sake of Verdania
And
Well
We saw that happened

[elder nymph]

Never trust a spider

[teal drift]

So clockwork dancers were a gift to try and buy favor, but unfortunately screw it

[brisk finch]

Herrah held up her end of the deal perfectly! Seems like this happened under the Conductors

[teal drift]

They were at least displayed proudly right below the cradle

[elder nymph]

I need to go check on Broodmother. Its been a while

[brisk finch]

Might have been hoping for an arrangement like the ants appear to have gotten

[teal drift]

Yeah

What did they even do to verdania again

Did it also get polluted to hell

[brisk finch]

Seemingly? Nothing deliberate

[tight zephyr]

So the fall of verdania was only because of silk right?
Cuz at first I thought the palestag being hunted(?) by the inhabitants caused it

[brisk finch]

They let it fall into ruin

They cost Verdania what made it so

[teal drift]

Rip bozos

Shouldve crawmaxxed

[brisk finch]

I don't think the princes would have been so desperate for the citadel to leave them alone if they'd hurt their own home so badly

My take on the hunt is that it's meant to show the GP looking back on a fairly mundane moment with the eyes of someone who's lost it all

it could not possibly have been their only hunt, but this one is now special
they were together

It's the equivalent of Karmelita starting out singing in an arena

That is the memory

[analog lily]

guys. bell beast is stag larvae

Zza48, just spit it out lol

[edgy barn]

Is Bell Beast the intended mount for the bell ways?

[analog lily]

like how stag is the intended? like you mean that the bellways were intentionally designed for the bell beasts?

[brisk finch]

I think the scared pilgrim mentions carriages at the start of the game

The one that's hiding in bone bottom's bellway

[analog lily]

getting purple quill in steel soul mode gotta be a flex

[brisk finch]

.Aye. Rumours in the camp say these bells run throughout the lands, great veins of them, forged by our ancient kin.And some even say bugs used to travel through them, in gilded carriages no less!Surely such fanciful travel would be a sin for us pilgrims. We must walk and climb and crawl using only our own meagre claws... Only thus can we prove our devotion.

[analog lily]

ye

i think the bekll beast just likes bell and hornet

[brisk finch]

Fun fact: the only other times the word carriage is used, are when speaking with Kratt the flea

[spring escarp]

I think the abyss was undercooked ngl...

[teal drift]

Based on the bell beast’s kids, their species seems to be natural burrowers. They probably just like the bells

[spring escarp]

Like I legit think some areas could have been made better lmao.

Team sherry should have spent 20 years clearly.

[brisk finch]

Wouldn't surprise me if they used to be the "horses"

[spring escarp]

I am pretty sure it is used on the context of the bell veins somewhere

[brisk finch]

I did a cntrl f search

[spring escarp]

Really?

Maybe a similar word

[brisk finch]

It's said once by the hiding pilgrim and then a bunch by Kratt

[edgy barn]

I like Silksong's Abyss

[brisk finch]

ye that's the curse of lazy searching lol

[spring escarp]

I have the distinct impression something alike shows up

[edgy barn]

I recently replayed the first HK and the abyss there feels a lot less grimm, which makes sense because of who the player character is.

[spring escarp]

Idk

The first abyss looks bigger even

Not sure.

[cedar owl]

idk, I didnt upload it

[brisk finch]

Maybe you're thinking of this? The bellways, gilded veins that run throughout the lands. Supposedly, they were once used for travel?These pins will mark stations on your map.

[cedar owl]

that's from Sumwan

[brisk finch]

Did anyone make a copy?

[edgy barn]

of what?

[brisk finch]

The sprite sheet google drive link

[edgy barn]

oh, not me.

[brisk finch]

The contents, I mean

[white glacier]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fXWZMaeHiBTY1D6P2cuO929M0iXIYTXdeMifmLQ71sA/edit?usp=drivesdk

-waves with bleary eyes-

Here it is

[cedar owl]

copy of copy of copy of copy of copy

this doc has been through a game of telephone

[brisk finch]

Bless

Wait nothat's the text

A worse version of it

[cedar owl]

oh btw be careful because some of the dialogue is cut and I dont think it's highlighted in this version

[brisk finch]

Should be tagged Deprecated

Did this version remove the text? hold on a mo

[cedar owl]

some dialogues that arent in deprecated are also cut iirc

[white glacier]

This is the one being passed for a bit

Sorry if it's not the correct one

[brisk finch]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e2UwMPO4ulW4l3JSE-9FFjHR9RlyJ7KspieeLB3EKTk/edit?gid=0#gid=0

That's terrible, please use this one instead

Mind you, sharing what you have is always a good thing
But terrible for the eyes

[cedar owl]

my computer is having a headache trying to load the world's largest spreadsheet

[brisk finch]

True, but that's a handful of lines at best+ like 2 achievements

[cedar owl]

I'm not so sure

[brisk finch]

it has all of the text in neat little columns with tabs for all of the languages

[cedar owl]

as a rule of thumb, only quote things you've seen in the game

[brisk finch]

Well, ye. You need context to examine something anyway

I'm personally more interested in what was cut anyway, like the caravan spider and the mossblood/muckblood/alchemist stuff

[quartz salmon]

so what did you find out about that blood stuff

[brisk finch]

I like knowing what ideas TC chose to remove, and how that impacts what remains

[cedar owl]

btw Im pretty sure the original version of this file was uploaded by sumwan
and I think she removed it precisely because there was cut dialogue being quoted here

[edgy barn]

Do you guys remember this fella?

[cedar owl]

oh yeah, there were these weavers who supposedly left hallownest to return to pharloom

[brisk finch]

The alchemist always cared about plasmium, but used to be situated somewhere closer to mossy/mucky things (the dialogues appear to be alt versions of each other) and the lifeblood addition appears to have been fairly late, possibly a merge with the Lifeblood Tower idea from the oldest maps we have
Alchemist quest 3 still exists in the save file, but is never set to true

He says stuff like "With the Needle Phial... The mossblood from the humid caves at Pharloom’s base...We shall force the Plasmium to respond... We need it... You need it... Bring the mossblood..."

"The mossblood... The Plasmium. It demands that foreign, lesser life... It demands violent coercion...You have done so well, Assistant... For your kind efforts, you may relieve this shell of its rosaries. They are heavy, mortal things... On a transcending shell, they will only weigh.."

"The muckblood... Please, dear Assistant. Plasmium demands its final challenge.Use the Phial... Strike deep. Suck that foul liquid from the swamp things’ shells... For your forever..."

"Goooooood. That’s it Assistant... My dear Assistant.The muckblood... From the swamps beside the sea. Vile, impure... necessary, for great discovery...To become that great discovery.The Needle Phial. Use it. Extract the blood... Bring it. I must ingest that crudest liquid life..."

[cedar owl]

ig they died along the way. or more likely, TC forgot

[edgy barn]

I think they just couldn't fit it in with the story they ended up using for silksong

[grand hare]

are squirrms the same species as the judges?

[edgy barn]

yes

they are baby judges

[grand hare]

damn

[cedar owl]

yeah the lore tablet and the entries say they'll be raised to be judges

[grand hare]

I kinda dont feel bad about killing them anymore

[cedar owl]

not even the only instance of this happening.
The citadel LOVES breeding species specifically to fulfill one role

[quartz salmon]

it seems like the original quest leaned more into the "alchemy" part of mixing elements together

also the mention of the sea

[grand hare]

the flies in the slab too right

[brisk finch]

Yeah, the act 3 quest seems to be closer to what the quest in general was like early on

Knowing that the maps at acmi show a Lifeblood Tower as one of the very earliest concepts? Makes me wonder when they decided to merge those ideas

Also, was there some other plan for lifeblood that was then scrapped in turn?

[quartz salmon]

its all very interesting

[edgy barn]

Althought not a whole species, moorwing is also an example of this

[quartz salmon]

i just wish there was more lifeblood stuff
like those mutated worm designs are soooo cool