sk-lore

[wicked comet]

that also didnt make sense to me too what were they doing there? did some maybe come in contact with anctient void worshippers?

[uncut holly]

They had that Hive Mind

[tropic arrow]

What were they doing down tbere

[modest coyote]

studying

[modest coyote]

no i doubt it

[rocky smelt]

what does that matter?

[whole hawk]

Weavers were probably studying the Abyss like PK did but to a lesser extent

[uncut holly]

Weavenest Atla seems to be the creation of Eva and the hiding away from GMS. That seems to be its main function.

[modest coyote]

weavers only came into existence AFTER the ancient civilisation had long died out

[wicked comet]

then maybe looking for ways to kill pale beings

[modest coyote]

think about the timeline

[uncut holly]

The Weavers also supposedly made things down there

[teal finch]

yeah, probably to see if they could use the void to escape gms somehow

[modest coyote]

they 100% did not encounter the ancient civilisation, atleast not while it was actually alive

[teal finch]

i forget if theres dialogue/lore from weavenest absolom

[modest coyote]

maybe they encountered its ruins, but certainly they were not concurrent

[outer ermine]

im pretty sure there was one

[tropic arrow]

The only thing in the Weavenest, besides silk soar, is a rune depicting the void

[outer ermine]

was that rune made by the weavers?

[modest coyote]

yes.

[jaunty fog]

is mr mushroom a gag character or is there like actual lore with him

[outer ermine]

so they for sure been studying the void then

[whole hawk]

There were lore tablets in the abyss too so the ancient civ was there at one point

[rocky smelt]

theres other lore tablets in the abyss though in the weaver runes

[tropic arrow]

Those are ancient civilization

The only Weaver things down there that I can recall is the Weavenest

[teal finch]

hornet seems to know hes powerful or knows a lot about the overall world

[wicked comet]

wait was there even a slight confirmation that there was a civilization of void worshippers in pharloom?

[teal finch]

worldbuilding wise its cool you get silk soar specifically from the abyss weavenest, like i can imagine the weavers of the past developing and using it to get in/out of the abyss quickly

[outer ermine]

arcane egg

[rocky smelt]

i dont think so, i dont remember any of their architecture down there

[wicked comet]

ah yes what did it say?

[rocky smelt]

it has the same white runes as the rest of the weaver stuff

[tropic arrow]

You literally find an arcane egg in the abyss

[wicked comet]

I forgot what did it say?

[whole hawk]

Arcane egg and non-weaver tablers

[outer ermine]

...No will... No self... Shade.

[teal finch]

yeah there are non weaver tablets in the abyss

[wicked comet]

very vague

[tropic arrow]

The tablets outside the Weavenest are ancient civilization

They don't read like Weaver

[outer ermine]

im currently descending into abyss to check for sure

[lethal orbit]

I just beat lace 2, is she fr dead or is she acting?

[tropic arrow]

Run from this channel

And do not come back until finishing the game

[uncut holly]

Yes please run

You can only experience it blind once

[tropic arrow]

Lest you be spoiled

[lethal orbit]

Err okay

[outer ermine]

the only signs of architecture is weaver related

[lethal orbit]

I have a feeling she'll show up out of nowhere at the final boss and scrap with us one last time after we're already tired from fighting the final dude

[modest coyote]

🇹🇿

[outer ermine]

unless this is ancient civilization stuff

[wicked comet]

DUDE RUN from this PLACE

[uncut holly]

Go meet the monarch! Begone!

[teal finch]

this channel fr needs a massive "Please for the love of god open this channel at your own risk" disclaimer since we toss spoilers left and right

[wicked comet]

it is

[tropic arrow]

Again, there is literally an arcane egg down there. It's pretty clearly ancient civilization made, outside the Weavenest.

[modest coyote]

🇹🇿 me when I’m fighting Zanzibar (garmond)

[tropic arrow]

The tablets are, anyway

[outer ermine]

ok heres the lore thingy doesnt look like it belongs to the weavers

[wicked comet]

yeah it was confirmed

[tropic arrow]

They don't even read like the Weaver stuff, they're pretty distinctive

[uncut holly]

We dont know Garmonds last name. It is now Zanzibar. His full name is Garmond Zanzibar.

[wicked comet]

why is first sinner refered to as FIRST WEAVER in the info

[modest coyote]

Anyways I wanna say: we do not have any candidates for who the ancient civilisation descendants are

[uncut holly]

He named himself after his favorite word

[modest coyote]

First weaver to rebel…

[wicked comet]

ok

[viscid fox]

What even happened to ||green princes partner? Was he turned into a cog work dancer or was the robot designed after him?||

[modest coyote]

All the weavers were created at a similar time

We see in a cutscene them being created at the same time

[uncut holly]

He was turned into the Cogwork Dancers, his soul was split. Most of all the robots have the souls of people put into them and then their given directives.

[tropic arrow]

To be clear, btw, did the Haunting start due to Whiteward?

[modest coyote]

Their directives are to make slavery more efficient

[wicked comet]

there were 2 green prices to save the kingdom of verdania one of them gave himself to the citadel where they used hiw soul to create the cogwork dancer then the second one was trapped in sinner road and the kingdom fell without them

[modest coyote]

Partially - the silk experimentation basically meant the curse was everywhere

[whole hawk]

Yes or at least whenever they started screwing around with silk

[tropic arrow]

Yeah, just tryna pinpoint when, exactly, GMS went "I should control people with silk" in her eepy time

[wicked comet]

soul infused silk

[wicked comet]

I think she did that at the very first

[modest coyote]

Mossbag make a lore video please we don’t understand it

[tropic arrow]

We do understand it

[wicked comet]

I think she even used it to communicate with everyone

[outer ermine]

high ruling people started doing many experiments with a substance they shouldn't have to make their kingdom last eternal - got cursed in the process

[tropic arrow]

Huh. Where did I hear that before

[wicked comet]

she we can see her use it before weaver rebel since she used it in first sinner

[modest coyote]

They basically became cocaine addicts and then the cocaine began to mind control them

[uncut holly]

We know that people like The White Lady is very Familiar with the Nightmare Heart and Grimm. It wouldnt surprise me if the Pale King knew about Grand Mother Silk, I mean he uses Silk himself for things. But I feel like he probably knew, which makes the way he ran his kingdom compared to others way better. We know of the City of Steel but that place doesnt sound much better.

[outer ermine]

[modest coyote]

Did she use it on first sinner?

[wicked comet]

yeah in the cutscene you can see the silk attach to her head

[modest coyote]

Isn’t that because she is being enlightened into a weaver in that cutscene

[tropic arrow]

Pale King 100% knew civilization existed outside Hallownest

[outer ermine]

im sure he knew about weavers origins

[modest coyote]

I disagree compared to hallownest pharloom does not qualify as “civilisation”

[uncut holly]

The fact that White Lady was very familiar with Grimm in the original game was very interesting, but its a bit off topic.

[tropic arrow]

The whole "yo my kingdom is the last and only standing civilization!" Thing is just propaganda he fed to Hallownest

[outer ermine]

the citadel is

[modest coyote]

No it’s true pharloom is ass

[tropic arrow]

It is civilization nonetheless

[modest coyote]

We really comparing the shitadel to the city of tears

[tropic arrow]

An awful civilization to be clear

But civilization anyway

[modest coyote]

She is clear not the only bug in that scene

[outer ermine]

pharloom literally is more advanced industrially than hallownest hornet even mentions it herself

[modest coyote]

And they use it ONLY to make slavery more efficient

[uncut holly]

Pharloom is a civilization. Greymoor and all the surounding areas like Sinners Road, Deep Docks. They are all country side places meant to maintain the main City at the summit.

[wicked comet]

she is shown growing

[tropic arrow]

Golden leech*

[modest coyote]

Cause she’s being given enlightenment

[outer ermine]

they do make some machinery

[uncut holly]

The City at the Summit has a horribly oppressive caste system way worse than anything ever seen in Hollow Knight.

[wicked comet]

we know she used it on her at least

[modest coyote]

They use the machinery to make slavery more efficient

[outer ermine]

& i would say pretty complex machniery at that

[whole hawk]

City of Steel is a totalitarian shithole. Pharloom is a industrial theocratic shithole. Land of Storms is probably a complete mess of loons focusing all the time. Yeah nah Hallownest clears.

[tropic arrow]

I like the name Green Prince gave it more.

[modest coyote]

She didn’t use silk to control first sinner because first sinner sins

[outer ermine]

the goals dont matter . they have complex machinery. they are advanced

[uncut holly]

Hollow Knight had the Upper Class in that part of town, but even then they where nothing compared to this. They where just an exclusive rich club.

[whole hawk]

Unless Zemer or Shakra's homeland are somehow better

[tropic arrow]

How much do we even know about City of Steel, really

[wicked comet]

so to answer your question GMS used her silk on minds from the moment she rained or so we can estimate as she used it on weavers like first sinner

[modest coyote]

I strongly disagree

[wicked comet]

she used it when we was young

[modest coyote]

Using silk to create the weavers is very different than mind control

[tropic arrow]

The Weavers were not haunted, far as we can tell

[wicked comet]

we clearly know she didnt create weaver only ascended them

[wicked comet]

but she used it to communicate

[tropic arrow]

Also, I ask again, who put Widow in her state, with her .ask removed and the pins lodged in her

[modest coyote]

You know what I mean

[wicked comet]

also the little tiny dude like the one in the cut scene is

[outer ermine]

also : are the little flies inside some cogwork enemies souls?

[modest coyote]

No

[wicked comet]

I know I am talking about the timeline she used it her silk on minds

[modest coyote]

No one knows

[uncut holly]

The City of Steel is where all the Steel Bugs come from. The City of Steel seems to send out Steel Bugs with several vassals working under them. The City of Steel appears to be very familiar with Void, enough for a lowly servant to learn Void rituals there illegally. The City of Steel is ruled by "The Masters" a group that Hornet apparently knows of. The Masters supposedly will dismantle Steel Seer Zi if she does not find the servant who touched the dark track them across the entire world and kill them. The Steel Bugs are possibly made of Void and the Servant bug is just not allowed to do this because only very few can have that kind of knowledge for kingdom survival reasons. We know that Confessor Jiji was the Servant of Steel Soul Jinn in the original game.

[rocky smelt]

Not really anything other than that the masters seem to control it and like to record data on other kingdoms, and the steel servants call it the Homespear, assuming they're the same place

[modest coyote]

We haven’t figured it out yet

[wicked comet]

my theory is that GMS did that and that is one of the reasons weavers rebelled cuz she treated them like that

[teal finch]

i think thats what theyre meant to represent at least visually maybe? we just know souls are required to make the robots

i forget but when we kill the robots do they have the "silk" death animation

[modest coyote]

Ok I guess it’s some kind of silk soul

[outer ermine]

there is a reason why they are used in robots

[modest coyote]

[tropic arrow]

Ok that's a fair bit

[wicked comet]

all silk from weavers and GMS even hornet is soul infused silk

[modest coyote]

I know lol

[uncut holly]

City of Steel seems very totalitarian

[outer ermine]

theres also this area with these flies in whiteward so maybe they converted dead bugs into silk soul flies

[tropic sand]

also, popping in for some other talk i have about this "silk evolution" thingy silk (or at least only the monarch can do), Widow looks a lot like Drapemite (those small enemies of the cidadel, you know) and when i saw this connecting it made me think if Widow was a Drapemite before she got evolved into a Weaver-like creature by the monarch, for what reason i'm not sure, but it's quite the detail i'm interested if it's very likely or not.

[uncut holly]

Yeah im pretty sure that those bugs with the tails and Silk Soul Flies, they appear in many places and definitely arent just normal bugs or Lumaflies. They also appear out of some destroyed robots.

[teal finch]

is someone able to confirm this

or deny

[uncut holly]

The Clock Work Dancers?

[wicked comet]

might be that weavers came from such bugs which is why they have a hard time reproducing

[teal finch]

no just any robot enemy

[uncut holly]

No robots explode into gears, they arent Silk controlled. They also sometimes have a single Silk Soul Fly in them

[teal finch]

im wondering if when they die, the "silk" animation plays (like how pilgrims and other haunted enemies have silk coming out of their body when they die)

[outer ermine]

maybe this machine in whiteward converted bugs into these soulflies and thats how green princes partner became cogwork dancers

[teal finch]

okay great i just wanted my own confirmation that the flies are meant to be souls

[uncut holly]

Actually 2 robots are Silk Controlled. Those spider guys that steal your Silk, you can cut down a line in the High Halls thats controlling them like a puppet and they will not show up anymore. The other controlled robot is Fourth Chorus possibly. They might just be acting as intended though

[outer ermine]

the cogwork robots all seem to be infused with those soulflies though

[teal finch]

i think for fourth chorus theyre silk controlled because they were busted when we first approached that area

[uncut holly]

Fourth Chorus might not be GMS controlled, but I remember in the original trailers you could see there were tiny thread lines on their hands like a puppet, you dont notice it ingame now though.

[teal finch]

the silk is just reanimating them

[wicked comet]

hear me out first I would like to apologize cuz I read hte journal entery for GMS and its clearly she can make her silk , second then why is she looking for weavers : maybe after weavers trapped her she couldnt produce new silk to reach deeper and farther places ( in hornet losing ending you can see that her silk now can reach much farther and can infect even bugs outside pharloom) , so to get new silk she is looking for weaver?

[outer ermine]

also hornet says this about one of the cogwork robots

[teal finch]

nice catch

[earnest sparrow]

what kind of bug is this supposed to be based on?

[uncut holly]

Maybe the robots are being controlled by GMS

[wicked comet]

the hole frog

[uncut holly]

Thats a Hell Spawn, you would know them if youve been to Australia

[outer ermine]

but we do know that silk and soul are connected and cogwork robots were made by the citadel right?

[wicked comet]

yeah

[outer ermine]

soo those flies are totally souls lol

[modest coyote]

I think those bugs could be silk being manifestation

[modest coyote]

Dinasoir

[tropic sand]

yeah, there's also some hints that the common worker bugs (like the pilgrims and such) where maybe modified by the weavers to gain sentience and be able to do work and such. i mean, the surface has Skrills which weren't touched by any silk related stuff, and they are just earth cockroaches. this also makes me wonder if smth similar happened in hallownest to make the bugs be more human, but maybe it just immigrants from other places.

[outer ermine]

it is possible since they appear also in the mist - an area with a confirmed silk manifestation (phantom & the ghosts)

[wicked comet]

one thing is clear all pale being were united in one area at first but then scatered to each create their kingdom a already existing place

[tropic sand]

i also want to note that when a cogwork enemy is killed, they leave a small white fly off their bodies, and maybe this fly is made of silk and is animating the robots and such.

[modest coyote]

I mean that’s not clear yet although it could be true

[outer ermine]

but that whiteward machine still makes me think citadel experimented with making those flies

[outer ermine]

yeah and im trying to figure out their origins

[uncut holly]

So from what we know, Pharloom is incredibly old and has had intelligence for a very long time at this point, unlike Hallownest. The Greymoor fields already had farmers when Grand Mother Silk showed up, and normal bugs both traveled through and lived here without being apart of any tribe. Pharloom is seemingly a land of travelers, most of all the people that come through it come from the wastes or other places. It doesnt seem to be nearly in a precarious spot as other regions like Hallownest which we know is incredibly far away.

[tropic sand]

hm, alike "they all stepped down from heaven and into one place"

[wicked comet]

all pale beings apparently just decided to come into kingdoms one day and my theory is that the place they were all at before is the birthplace of the First light the everbloom

[outer ermine]

there must have been a way for citadel to make or find those silk flies

[wicked comet]

yeah for some kind of reason

[uncut holly]

The oldest event we know of in Pharloom is The Marrow, which are apparently Pharlooms "Great Ancestors" something happened thereto made the massive biome of bones, but we dont know any cause for sentience in Pharloom.

[teal finch]

one of the relic entries:

"Tattered decree of the Citadel." Bug of voice grown hoarse or shell fallen frail, you have been selected for duty most sacred. Become our light, our guide in darkness, that others worthy may climb to join the holy song.

and note that many of the lamps in the game have these soul bugs

[outer ermine]

oh right and im pretty sure that relic is in the whiteward

maybe im just hearing what i want to hear but im so sure they converted dead bugs into those things

[teal finch]

like 99% sure

[outer ermine]

ok so thats how cogwork dancers were made then

[teal finch]

it makes complete sense in terms of pharlooms caste system

[wicked comet]

one thing unclear for me is who built the whole singing thing? since we know shrines were made by weavers so I think song are too but why the whole climb that is actually impossible?

[outer ermine]

i wonder if people remain aware when converted into a soul fly

[wicked comet]

and pilgrims must sing while climbing apparently

[teal finch]

they do respond to the needolin (in the mist) and lace is seen conducting them..

[tropic sand]

hm yeah, and it makes me wonder if other places also had dabbled with silk and such. since soul appears to be universal, and the magical silk is just silk infused with soul, maybe this "silk evolution" stuff happened elsewhere too to create sentient bugs... just throwing out this idea

[outer ermine]

hmm

what unclear to me is whether or not the soul flies in the mist are of the same origin as the ones in cogwork

[uncut holly]

Maybe we dont really know

[wicked comet]

my idea is that in pharloom songs were the things that made the whole sentience unlike the pale king

since ant queen united ants using her songs

and in weaver when getting silk heart it says bing their souls/ songs / shells

to take their sentience from them

[rocky smelt]

i think ants were already sentient before that

[wicked comet]

yeah I am saying singing is what gave them sentience

[teal finch]

what gave ant queen sentience

[unkempt viper]

why is ||grandma silk such a HORRIBLE higher being compared to all others 😭😭😭||

[wicked comet]

she was the one singing

[rocky smelt]

singing from karmelita? that doesnt rlly make sense

[outer ermine]

ok so its pretty clear that in order to make automatons in world of hollow knight soul is needed since white king did the same (expect he also added void for some reason)

[wicked comet]

her whole fight she is singing

[neat sandal]

no she is not.

[rocky smelt]

yes, but singing didnt make the other ants sentient

[teal finch]

its her job but i dont think its needed to supply sentience (shes not singing in current pharloom)

[unkempt viper]

I dont think she's better than any other besides radiance

[wicked comet]

and the moment she stops singing you can see the haunted ants that lost sentience start to ask is this still her song...

[teal finch]

karmelita: im old!

[outer ermine]

also when fourth chorus is defeated soul flies come out of him

[unkempt viper]

pale king was the only half decent higher being 😭

[uncut holly]

The people we dont have any explanation for how they got there and have just always been there that we know of seem to be.

The Ants
The Crabs
The Craws
And the Stilken (Swamp People)

These are the people who we dont have any origin for how theyve shown up, they have been around long before we ever get to look at the region or we have any records of at the time. It just seems they have been there for a very long time, and we dont know how they arrived there.

[neat sandal]

show me one bug she killed?

[unkempt viper]

oh it's ragebait

[rocky smelt]

giving sentience seems to be a higher being exclusive thing so far and karmelita isnt one

[teal finch]

wait nice catch

[silver spire]

guys whats the lore on palestag

[neat sandal]

no. it's not

[unkempt viper]

okay

[teal finch]

bigly

[silver spire]

!!!!

[tropic sand]

yeah, i was thinking about that: song is the mind and silk is the body, you know, but i think silk made bugs be more human in terms of body, and song gave them minds. so it's prob a combination of both to creature "human-like bugs" you know.

[teal finch]

ill have to read the fourth chorus entry again

[wicked comet]

my idea that make it why it gave them sentience is that we can see only one occation where someone stops singing. the old lady in pilgrims rest she start saying I am tired I cant sing the next time you visit her she isnt turned why because sherma is singing for her and the last time she has already turned

[modest coyote]

Spider

[rocky smelt]

it seems to resist GMS influence, but not outright give sapience

[outer ermine]

i also wonder if the fire wisp is a variation of those soul flies

[uncut holly]

We know how a few races got there.

Like we know that the Stick Bugs and Shellwood came from Nyleth who supposedly laid down a seed that grew into Shellwood. Or... They might actually be the seed themself.

[wicked comet]

GMs influence is like the radiance infection just like the pale king gave them sentience they also gain it in pharlom using songs

[modest coyote]

Ass fight

[wicked comet]

that is why ringing the bell i the first shrine makes it so that you dont have the haunted approach you

why pilgrims settle there

[rocky smelt]

then where did karmelita get her sapience? Or the coral kingdom and the stilkin?

[uncut holly]

We also know that the Green Dancer bugs began and likely generated in Verdania, we know how their entire monarchy started, with the killing of a Mythical Pale Stag that gave them the right to rule as dual kings, and also made the kings immortal.

[modest coyote]

Btw all those civilisations you mentions (ants, coral etc…) are older than the weavers

[teal finch]

the flame cult is super interesting, like theres a bug in father of the flame iirc right

[wicked comet]

all the fights I think had songs in the ( the shellwood had the harp in it and another bell)

[modest coyote]

So the next time someone uses weaver antiquity in relation to the ancient civilisation- know they’re wrong

[tropic sand]

yeah, i can see, she got more tuned up by sherma's singing and such. yes?

[wicked comet]

yes

[modest coyote]

No one understands him yet

[vital oyster]

You folks probably already picked up on it but interesting that one of the earliest map designs for the game has a Butterfly Field whats now the Cradle.

[wicked comet]

and bells when ringing were like checkpoints that gave sentience

[modest coyote]

Where did you find that?

[outer ermine]

if wisps are anything like soul flies. Bugs could turn into them after death and maybe thats what the flame cult desired . Im pretty sure hornet mentions that they seemes like they wanted to be "immolated"

[uncut holly]

Pale Stag is a mythical being that might not have been real Hornet states. That the Green Princes ancient families had hunted and killed, this gave both families immortality and the right to rule, marrying into each other.

[modest coyote]

Kinda like real life where bells mark the time

[vital oyster]

featured at GameWorlds expo at ACMI Melbourne

[modest coyote]

Omg should I visit lol

ehh probably not I don’t care that much

[vital oyster]

There's a full collection here https://www.reddit.com/r/Silksong/comments/1njunsj/silksong_map_through_the_years_acmi_gameworlds/

And I made a post about a cut area I discoved while visiting here https://www.reddit.com/r/HollowKnight/comments/1nks8w3/cut_area_discovered_at_acmi_the_aspids/

[uncut holly]

We really dont know, its too far back in the timeline.

[wicked comet]

yeah and why hornet can rest in them becuase the haunted doesnt approach them the song of the bell proteccts them

[modest coyote]

Notice how there’s no fucking poison area?

[modest coyote]

Before the weavers but we don’t know anything more

[uncut holly]

Unfortunately our time line only really begins when GMS gets there which is extremely late to the party, compared to all the stuff that has gone on.

[vital oyster]

Yeah from what I understand from visiting ACMI and looking through the files I think the barnacle bay esque area was completely scrapped and turned into Bilewater relatively late into dev

[silk dirge]

what interests me is how void was planned to be involved through some "cult" as early as 2018

[tropic sand]

yeah, at least in terms of mind, cuz body was def altered by silk and soul stuff, yes?

[silk dirge]

its likely they were planning for snail shamans as early as then

[modest coyote]

Cult could just be refering to it being a small religion of few followers

[rocky smelt]

yes ik, im just disagreeing with him abt karmelitas song elevating the ants like the pale king did in any way

[wicked comet]

I am leaving my theory here ... singing from any source ( voice , bells , needoling) = sentience like from the pale king imma go to sleep to please try to either prove and strengh it or dispprove it

[unkempt viper]

loomland

[modest coyote]

It could we don’t know yet

[wicked comet]

not elevating but protected from the haunting

[modest coyote]

We don’t understand the ant civilisation enough

[silk dirge]

also i like how the slab just switched sides

[modest coyote]

Let me tell u for example the craws- what’s up with them?

Why do the craws have the intelligence to make a fucking legal system

[unkempt viper]

just bird guys who fly

[uncut holly]

Some kind of cataclysmic event happened in The Marrow, which led to its creation by Pharlooms great ancestors.

The Ants supposedly existed but where unified by Skarrsingers Karmelitas singing, unifying as one tribe and becoming the Skarr.

The Craws have just always been there, presumeably living alongside Greymoors farmers, they also call it "Our Land! Our Land!" in their mind read quotes.

[modest coyote]

They literally send you a summons

[teal finch]

they went to law school for birds

[rocky smelt]

thats what i said, thats different from gaining sentience because it implies that it wasnt already there

[modest coyote]

Summons are a court thing where you basically send someone a letter saying “show up to court for this day and time for this reason”

[silver spire]

ohhh

[unkempt viper]

at the same time an evolved grub caused the mass destruction of an almost entire kingdom 😭

[vital oyster]

I wonder if the exclusion of Greymoor from the Memorium has lore implications

[wicked comet]

still it has some kind of connect mind=songs

[modest coyote]

The fact that hornet is receiving a summons before a court very clearly implies that they have a legal system

[modest coyote]

Do the craws sing?

[wicked comet]

crawfather seems to be their king

[rocky smelt]

yes, that im not denying. songs have power in pharloom fs

[modest coyote]

Craws clearly have enough intelligence to conduct trials

[uncut holly]

Alot of the races have just been there forever, and we dont know where they began. We only know the origin of the Green Dancers, and the Stick Bugs. And we cant place them on the timeline other than that they are very very far back.

[silver spire]

i hate those fat crow f***s that throw three nails like the primal aspid 3.0 and randomly fall on you while moving with more rng based movement than markoth himself

[white glacier]

Even in the Hunter’s journal they have Legal Distinctions for names

[outer ermine]

crows somehow figured out that hornet is related to the fact that the world is ending

[viscid panther]

means an enemy is well done. made to annoy - annoys.

[white glacier]

Are Crows bugs tho?

Or Craws

[rocky smelt]

yeah theyre crawbugs

[modest coyote]

I theorise that shellwood to wisp thicket to bikewater to verdania and everything in between was at one point greenery

[outer ermine]

yeah they are bugs with wings and rags im pretty sure

[uncut holly]

Yeah the Craws are really smart. They somehow have grasp over the concepts of Void and Silk. The Crawfather knows of your crimes indepthly and that is why they sentence you in the Court of Craws

[modest coyote]

Anyone wanna dispute this? Cause to me it makes sense

[silk dirge]

craws are bugs but its very obvious they are basically just supposed to be crows

[modest coyote]

They understand the legal system lol

[white glacier]

That would make sense since in Bilewater it was poisoned by the citadel

[unkempt viper]

bilewater yes, wisp thicket maybe, she'll wood probably not

[outer ermine]

that seems good. Maybe bilewater was something else before though

[silver spire]

wait yea what is wisp thicket

[white glacier]

As said by several of the bugs living there

[modest coyote]

The implication of “summons” as a specific thing also means they have “court mentions” and “commital cases” and probably even plea deals and lawyers

[silver spire]

it just seems like a random area with fire

[modest coyote]

Yes but it clearly has greenery

[outer ermine]

im going to wisp thicket to hear what the cultists say when i play the song

[uncut holly]

I mean maybe? We dont know when Whisp Thicket gets its wisps, we know that Verdania was likely always just a green haven where the Dancers lived isolated in a little niche. And we know that Nyleth likely was the seed of Shellwood

[silver spire]

how is the greenery not all burnt by now 🥀

[vital oyster]

i dont think this is true

[modest coyote]

It could either be a new religion or some other reason

[white glacier]

Probably pretty strong greens to handle high heat

[teal finch]

completely unrelated but its actually so chill that we all are engaged enough w the story to have productive and respectful discourse irt the lore and worldbuilding (most of the time) i swear i peep in the other channels once in a while and they are all beefing 😭

[outer ermine]

well there is father of the flame

[modest coyote]

I’m not saying they have the same higher power just that they were all greenary

[outer ermine]

and also iirc after defeating father of the flame the fire cultist will start killing themselves

[silver spire]

im on my alt rn, the main reason i left was because of the constant beef 💀 (and an overflow of masochists flooding every single chat)

[uncut holly]

The Father of the Flame is a bug who wished to be immolated in flames and his wish was somehow granted, he became deity. And we have no clue how.

[teal finch]

CRAZY WORK

[modest coyote]

No one understands father of flame yet

[uncut holly]

The Father of the Flame boss fight idol has the corpse of that same bug in the big lantern in the middle

[white glacier]

Kind of falls into the belief system

[modest coyote]

Other than that his name is a reference to dark souls

[wicked comet]

not long ago we were beefing about GMS being able to make her own silk thankfully we came to a agreement

[vital oyster]

im pretty sure this place was roughly where bilewater/verdania was for a good chunk of time

[outer ermine]

god we need wisp thicket expansion in the dlc

[silk dirge]

i wonder if father of the flame was inspired by burning man

[modest coyote]

OH ALSO his design is a reference to “the wicker man”

[silk dirge]

the roller coaster at alton towers?

[white glacier]

The area I’m like wondering and curious about is The Mist

[silk dirge]

i know its based off a movie

[modest coyote]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicker_man

No no the thing is archaic Celtic paganism

[silver spire]

so was verdania an entire kingdom or just a random green pocket with some random dancers living there

[white glacier]

I don’t know if someone has done it but I want to try bringing the everbloom to characters and places to see if it does anything

[silk dirge]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicker_Man_(roller_coaster)

[modest coyote]

They made these things which they burnt

[wicked comet]

it was created from phantom some think as we know she was the onlyone controlling mist using her big piano

[silk dirge]

these mfs were brave they made a fucking wooden rollercoaster with fire effects

[rocky smelt]

his hat reminds me of slave knight gael lol

[silver spire]

ITS AN ORGAN >:((((((

[modest coyote]

Tbh given the antiquity it seems to imply that father of flame is an ancient religion

[teal finch]

ya though relative to the arguments people have in the other channels we were honestly v tame w this (in the sense we didnt jus straight up shittalk eachother as people lmfao)

[wicked comet]

patoto potata

[white glacier]

That was all her? But the Mist is still active for me

[tropic sand]

yeah, seems like it, also sad that this hermit crab npc got canned, maybe in a future update he will be back. blep :P

[white glacier]

Or is it… I have to go check again

[wicked comet]

once you pass through it once you cant enter it again

[uncut holly]

So The Mist is all the work of Phantom, Laces older sister, and Grand Mother Silks first attempt to make an artificial child for herself.

Thing is Lace isnt really alive in the traditional sense they dont think their alive, they are a silk construct that has been "weaved"(encoded) to act like a child. And so they dont think their alive, but Hornet disagrees.

Phantom is the first prototype GMS made, GMS discarded and abandonded them, not because they where faulty but because GMS didnt like the way they where written, so they left them to rot.

[modest coyote]

Ok does anyone wanna dispute father of flame is clearly inspired by the wicker men of reputed Celtic paganism?

I think it’s very obvious given everything about the design

[vital oyster]

Also does anyone know if this stuff is still in the game area? From the cut/repurposed area Gloom. Kinda reminded me of the stuff in The Mist but idk

[silver spire]

so what even are the wisps in the mist, like they suck silk but what are they and how does the mist operate

[white glacier]

Huh. I still had to go through it when I left through the mist… It’s been awhile since I checked

[silk dirge]

projections of phantom

[white glacier]

Wow that’s some… Great parenting.

[modest coyote]

I think the wisps etc are to the mist (silk) what void tendrils are to the abyss

[wicked comet]

maybe a entity similar to lifeblood worshiping fire ? fire wisp look like lifeblood bugs to me

[white glacier]

Eeey who’s the bug on the top left corner?

[uncut holly]

Yeah. The Mist itself is weird, its all because Phantom is venting the exhaust, and it might all be done by accident, its not really know exactly how or why they are able to distort things into the mist.

[vital oyster]

skarrsinger

[outer ermine]

ok so i went to wisp thicket but all of the cultists have disappeared so i have no idea how would they respond to the song

[modest coyote]

Apparently Celtic pagans used to burn these things

[outer ermine]

its really strange that after you kill father of the flame they just kill themselves

[modest coyote]

Very clearly father of flame is based on it

[silk dirge]

it could also be inspired by burning man

[uncut holly]

I dunno whats up with Whisp Thicket, they seem to be a crazy cult based around one guy who self immolated, they are obssessed with fire. I am not sure who granted his wish to being deified.

[modest coyote]

The fact the father of flame has more limbs is cause bugs have more legs than humans do

[steel turret]

Maybe we’re getting a fire-based dlc?

[wicked comet]

it does feel very HK or SS I just think its some kind of idol to a god of fire or something?

[vital oyster]

also interesting that the 2019 trailer has the wisp summoner guys in the greymoor towers directly

[uncut holly]

I mean maybe, we dont know who granted their wish and made them into a idol of worship

[steel turret]

There’s gotta be more there

[white glacier]

I wonder why they wanted to be immolated in fire is another thing

[silk dirge]

post a picture

[modest coyote]

They saw the design of the wicker man and said “we will just make it a bug”

[outer ermine]

well it is clear that father of the flame or someone who granted his wish is actually powerful enough to manifest wisps and have bugs worship

[outer ermine]

so it may be another deity

[silk dirge]

oh weird

[modest coyote]

Look the whole game has a church with visuals based on Christianity right?

It seems no surprise that things outside that church are based on pagan things

If I were designing a game with those visual inspirations- that is what I’d do

If I wanted to show that they were a different religion- I’d base their design on a different religion

[uncut holly]

I think the Whisp Thicket is the only other religion outside of the Citadel, which itself is just the hypnotic call sent out by the music it makes, which was made by the Weavers.

[wicked comet]

visual design is something but HK lore is usual pretty far from design you compare to irl

[outer ermine]

ALSO father of the flame lives in a bellhart house thingy

[vital oyster]

the void snail stuff aswell no?

[neat sandal]

I think Phantom just a suicidal
cause maintain is tiresome, her life so fragile, so she want to die and refuse to maintain
this look like her maintain chamber

[modest coyote]

I’m not saying it has any lore based on the real world- just that the design is clearly inspired

[outer ermine]

so it is possible the fire cultists were somehow related to bellhart

[modest coyote]

In the same way the bells in pharloom are inspired by church bells

That doesn’t mean bugs in pharloom worship Jesus

[uncut holly]

Oh the Snails did have a chapel. Theres also the Chapel of the Beast, and the Chapel of the Wanderer, that exist.

[modest coyote]

It just means they took visual inspiration

[modest coyote]

Maybe I don’t have any clue about their lore

[rain spindle]

Everyone hates some of my fav bosses

[white glacier]

Snails also one of the few that has like white eyes

[modest coyote]

We don’t know the time when the father of flame cult emerged

[rain spindle]

🥺 🥺

[modest coyote]

We don’t know if they predate or postdate the citadel for example

[uncut holly]

Oh yeah they are suicidal, Phantom needs to be constantly maintained with silk just like Lace. Except they where abandonded, and they are sick of having to find Silk, and would rather fight you to the death than slowly fade out.

[wicked comet]

she is born entirely from silk if you play needolin to lace 2 she also says some sads thing being bor from silk feels sad they dont feel like a real being

[outer ermine]

well it might be after bellhart since they are already in a bell

[modest coyote]

One would say “well obviously they must predate the citadel” but I think there are elements which indicate they’re a new cult

[teal finch]

bigggg ass bell too

[rain spindle]

Least obvious vessel parallel

[uncut holly]

Phantom is grey because they are in a lot worse condition than Lace is, they should be white.

[white glacier]

Another thing is the Arcane Egg

[rocky smelt]

in the files they're refered to as farmers, same as the other greymoor guys. I think they're an offshoot of greymoor, perhaps the bug inside the effigy is from bellhart though? idk

[wicked comet]

yeah that is why hornets tells lace dont mistake difference for abscence

[modest coyote]

Ok this is gonna be a strange detail but let me explain

The enemies in wisp thicket (burning bug) are WEARING SILK RAGS

[wicked comet]

not because you had a difference origin you are not real she says she met someone like her (the knight)

[modest coyote]

This means they are an offshoot heretical branch of the citadel religion

[outer ermine]

perhaps they used to be residents of bellhart or greymoor but then got influenced by the fire god of some sorts

[white glacier]

Silk rags?

[modest coyote]

Yep

[uncut holly]

I got no idea

[steel turret]

There’s gotta be a fire god but it’s weird that their influence seems to come mainly from the father of flames idol

[white glacier]

You mean one of the Rag bugs similar to Moorwing kind of deal?

[modest coyote]

The ONLY bugs which wear such rags are those who worship the church of the citadel- or those of the wisp thicket

[wicked comet]

someone in SS 3 is in bilewater poor guy good night everyone

[modest coyote]

I think it’s a heretical offshoot of the citadel religion

[white glacier]

Gnight

[outer ermine]

ok one extra detail is that most of the areas have dead bodies laying around especially around underworks or citadel & such but wisp thicket has none. This could mean anything but im going to throw a guess that the wisps are also made out of dead bodies just like soul flies

[uncut holly]

Moorwing is actually a giant flying Mite (Same as the flying mice bugs) that the Weavers bred to hunt down farmers and trappers from Greymoor and Sinners Road who decided to run from their duties

[modest coyote]

I mean a fire based religion burning their people instead of burying them makes perfect sense

[rocky smelt]

what about this says its silk?

[steel turret]

Maybe so, but the existence of the fire wisps implies some sort of higher power at play that isn’t GMS

[modest coyote]

All clothing in pharloom is made of silk

What else would it be made of?

[uncut holly]

I also have no idea where Whisp Thicket fits on the timeline, and I feel any attempt to place Whisp Thicket is completely hopeless

[white glacier]

I got to say the Weavers got some balls to have like a base of operations near the Void/Abyss

[neat sandal]

I rather think she just don't want to maintain by her mother anymore than her mother abandoned her
cause that way make GMS less contradictory in writing

[modest coyote]

Sure but it’s still newer than the citadel I mean

[white glacier]

Plus actual Void creatures being influenced by it!

[modest coyote]

All pre citadel civilisations (ants, coral etc…) don’t wear silk clothing

[outer ermine]

ok wait there was a relic in wisp thicket let me find what it says

"Hail to your heat! O glorious flame. You who builds and breaks us. Sear our shells. Char them black. That we may rise to join you, wreathed in bright and blazing joy.

[teal finch]

could be helpful to read the fire wisp tool flavor text too

[modest coyote]

The fact the wisp thicket guys DO WEAR silk clothing indicates to me they are offshoots of the citadel religion at one point

[outer ermine]

yup wisps are for sure like soul bugs - reincarnation

[steel turret]

Oh, I’m not disputing you there. I just think that the focus of worship has shifted from GMS to an as of yet unknown fire deity

[modest coyote]

Very possible

[teal finch]

in the shortcut to citadel from wisp thicket theres a citadel carriage iirc

[lucid pasture]

who

[uncut holly]

From Phantoms needolin quotes she says "Save me from this fading fate!" Im pretty sure for one reason or another she just wants you to end them, maybe they have a similar thought on not being alive as Lace, but they are running out of Silk when we see them in game.

[rain spindle]

Court of Craws
Father of the Flame
Groal the Great
Voltvyrm

[uncut holly]

Infact the needolin quote, for Phantom mentions how their claws are shaking and their shell is stiffening, they are really running out of Silk.

[modest coyote]

Btw the specific hood the wisp thicket guys wear is almost identical to one of the citadel enemies

[white glacier]

You could see it as her silk isn’t as renewed and all the other stuff is fading

[outer ermine]

so the wisp cult prays to the glorious flame to get burned alive in order to turn into wisps

[outer ermine]

i like those bosses

[silk dirge]

people hate voltvyrm? i thought it was a neat little boss

[tawdry flare]

Court of Craws is the best encounter EASILY

[silk dirge]

it doesnt do much but it has cool visuals

i enjoyed it

[uncut holly]

It might be that Phantom is dying infront of us, or is likely going to die very soon at some point

[rocky smelt]

didnt the greymoor farmers exist before the citadel

[outer ermine]

also one thing i still dont understand is why do wisp cultists kill themselves after you defeat father flame

[rocky smelt]

court of craws is goated

[rain spindle]

These + phantom, first sinner, seth, karmelita and khann are my favs

[modest coyote]

They don’t wear silk clothing ?

[white glacier]

Their Father is gone aka their Idol meaning they got nothing to life for

[uncut holly]

I love Court of Craws, might be my favorite boss. Or one of them

[outer ermine]

yet their goal was for the idol to get burned. so it may be a part of their ritual

[modest coyote]

Oh are you talking about these guys

[outer ermine]

the question is why did they need someone else to burn the father then

[modest coyote]

I think the birds are their own civilisation but the other guys are seperate

[white glacier]

Controlled by silk?

[outer ermine]

oohh thats possible

maybe they wanted to finish the ritual and burn the father but they got infected by silk

[white glacier]

The probably wanted to be self immolated to be free from GMS but her silk was too fast

[rain spindle]

I like their lore and how they are in the right

[uncut holly]

Oh The Craws do have their own society. Their actually one of the Socities we know predate GMS's arrival

[lucid pasture]

crawfather is cool and his bit of wanting revenge is kinda sad. the fightt itself might be a bit simply but he is a chill guy.
i like how father of the flame is a gimmicky boss
i like groal and bilewater tbh also i kinda like how the cheese to Groal fight is actually just staying on the maggot water. Its kinda sick and smart
voltvyrm is whatever sadly i dont even remember what he does LOL but the area is a bit nice

[outer ermine]

yeah that makes sense

[teal finch]

theyre so funny

[rain spindle]

They are prosecuting hornet for unleashing void into the kingdom

[teal finch]

its so peak

[rocky smelt]

isnt there dialogue in the chapel of the reaper that sort of implies the farmers (not the craws) were a thing beforehand is what im saying

[modest coyote]

@rocky smelt the bugs in greymoor clearly are citadel religion given the scissors and desire to collect silk

The craws are their own pre-existing society

[white glacier]

Yep yep

[rain spindle]

You get it

[rocky smelt]

because i think the flame guys are an offshoot of the greymoor farmers

[white glacier]

By the way there was a civilization or possible one near the void area

[rain spindle]

Court of craws is adds done right

[modest coyote]

Would like to see proof but clearly they right now are worshippers of citadel religion given their dialogue

[white glacier]

Since the weavers were playing around there

[uncut holly]

I mean you do get to Whisp Thicket through Greymoor

[outer ermine]

so in conclusion theres a fire cult that has created a ritual that requires burning a giant figure with someones soul inside it so they could burn themselves alive after to turn into fire wisps after

[rain spindle]

I could make an entire video essay on why it works

Bht turns out most people hate it

[teal finch]

we need to start picking apart the chapel lore too i feel like this has been mostly untapped

[modest coyote]

Like the reason they are using scizzors is to get silk they are clearly collecting silk

[outer ermine]

never seen anyone hate it

[white glacier]

I’d watch that

[teal finch]

i think its that a good amt of pplndont like crawfather

[modest coyote]

I agree with you tho the people who founded flame religion are CLEARLY related to the greymoor farmers very good noticing that @rocky smelt

[white glacier]

Crawfather looks so bossin

[outer ermine]

ive seen people say the boss itself is underwhelming but everyone agreed that the arena was good

[uncut holly]

The Chapel with the Chapel Maid is a Snail Shaman Ancestral Site. The pottery has snail shell swirls. There lore tablets talking about how at some point Snail Shamans took the Soul of Pilgrims, which is pretty dark, but their just silly guys.

[rocky smelt]

i dont think i can get the dialogue in game anymore since i already have the crest but im pretty sure its needolin dialogue inside the chapel of the reaper

[rain spindle]

Thats why it works

The adds are part of the moveset

[rocky smelt]

says something like "pharloom flourished"

[teal finch]

most innocent hollow knight series species

[rain spindle]

Crawfather is simple because you need to watch out fir the other craws

[modest coyote]

I still don’t think that disproves my theory because we can clearly see now that the greymoor farmers are silk religion even tho they might have existed prior

[outer ermine]

also pimpillo is related to wisp thicket

[rain spindle]

It's not bullshit its genuinely a fun challenge and it feels part of the lore. You are facing the court of the craws

[teal finch]

yes!!

[white glacier]

Actually

[quartz plinth]

So if plasmiun is capable of reviving the death, why didn't hollownest use it to revive the pale.king and the white castle? Are they dumb?

[white glacier]

Now that you bring it up

The crest are related to the area it was founded

[rain spindle]

I have videi footage where I could pinpoint on how the add craws are part of the boss and how accounting for them is part of the challenge

[outer ermine]

i dont think it reviews . I think the lifeblood just takes the body as a shell to use for itself

[uncut holly]

I think the most hated boss in this game is Groal if im not mistaken, but the fight itself is cool it has chaotic swamp town vibes and the enemies just keep coming and it just keeps getting worse

[modest coyote]

They don’t revive the dead- it’s more like zombies

[white glacier]

The reaper is all about harvesting more silk like a farmers scythe

[rocky smelt]

i think that they're sort of an unwilling participant in it though, they werent born with the sole purpose of serving originally like the Judges or the slab guards

[modest coyote]

Oh for sure I agree on that

[white glacier]

The beast is a similar moveset to Karmellita

[quartz plinth]

Why don't they zombify the pale king and the White castle then? Are they dumb?

[steel turret]

Lots of the greymoor buildings are made of bamboo, just like the whispy thicket. Maybe the fire cult used to control all of what’s now greymoor but was pushed to the shadows by silk?

[uncut holly]

Oh the farmers of Greymoor are also tasked with collecting any stray strands of Silk they find floating off from the Citadel

[modest coyote]

Could be

[steel turret]

Nobody was good enough at parkour

[modest coyote]

We don’t know exactly the order of evenrs

It could be that the farmers were silk religion and an offshoot became fire religion or the opposite

[outer ermine]

maybe there used to be no fire cult and greymoor and wisp thicket were both populated by the same people but there was a divide

[quartz plinth]

Like, hear me out on this, we grab a ton of Plasmiun cells and juice, we pour it all over where the white castle was, and the castle will come back as a zombie, then we spray more plasmiun inside until it eventually revives the pale king

[uncut holly]

Supposedly if their a farmer and they find Silk, they get some nifty bonuses, thats also why theres spools in Greymoor

[vital oyster]

dunno if this is mentioned ingame anywhere but offical names for the general regions of Pharloom found in the game files

[teal finch]

Peaklands aka all of silksong

[quartz plinth]

"Peaklands" so true..

[white glacier]

lol

[uncut holly]

Muck Lands is accurate for Bile Water

[modest coyote]

Again so clearly silk religion

[white glacier]

Does anyone know where to get descriptions for the crests other what abilities they do?

[narrow glacier]

Midlands lol

[wicked comet]

I was going to sleep but I had to answer this : lifeblood is considered taboo , forbidden in both kingdoms ( if you go to Eva with life blood she kicks you out saying that forbidden blood changes the world to its vulgar image , in the journal you can see hornet says that it tries to take over its shell but she can resist it but even she had her limits

[modest coyote]

But yes very good that it was noticed that the farmers are CLEARLY the same guys as the fire guys

[quartz plinth]

Danm, theyre very dumb 😔

[rain spindle]

Lifeblood is not taboo in pharloom

It's just that eva can sense something is dwelling on hornets blood

[quartz plinth]

I tought that eva kicked you out if you had the baby inside of you

[rain spindle]

Both

[narrow glacier]

Do you have pictures of the Eva dialogue?

[steel turret]

And now we know why

It may be even worse than the radiance

[wicked comet]

Wait a sec

[uncut holly]

The Beast Chapel appears to be a deity worshipped by the Ants. It might have not be a literal deity, just possibly a respect for the prey they've hunted. The Ants where rad, they werent at all like the Mantis's they used to be chill.

The Reaper seems to be a memorial/chamber for a very important farmer in Greymoor.

Wanderer appears to be a deified Pilgrim, in a Chapel set up before the trek up the mountain in Moss Grotto.

[white glacier]

Actually with this I’m curious where lifeblood came from since it also predates anything from before but has this somewhat Butterfly imagery

[rain spindle]

No. Lifeblood is passive

Its only infects people who willingly take on the substance

[tawdry flare]

Lifeblood is either extremely evil or passive and there is no in between

[rain spindle]

Its both

[outer ermine]

ok also if you closely you can tell that some parts of wisp thicket have the same architecture as sinners road so perhaps sinners road used to be like wisp thicket before it got all yucky and dirty lol

[steel turret]

For now, sure. But it’s been set up perfectly to be the main villain of hollow knight 3

[rain spindle]

Its evil and passive

[narrow glacier]

Lifeblood seems to need to be “planted” either in the land or one’s shell

[wicked comet]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fXWZMaeHiBTY1D6P2cuO929M0iXIYTXdeMifmLQ71sA/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.elzuoy8xusph

[narrow glacier]

Maybe it whispers to those near it to do so

[white glacier]

Oh yea the Wanderers place is also somewhat dead like it has graves there too

[quartz plinth]

My theory is that Lifeblood is a natural force of the Hollow world and it trives on places where there used to be life, hallownest was mostly dead in hollow knight, and in Pharloom it starts to kick in after chapter 3, when Silksong destroys most of pharloom

[wicked comet]

<entry name="CREST_UPGRADE_MEET_OVERBLUE">Come no closer! I sense the forbidden blood coursing through you, that which grows and reshapes the world in its own vulgar image.[NPC]:Whether it was imbibed willingly or not, none shall be allowed into this chamber while so afflicted. Begone!</entry>

[sacred heath]

just saw the snared silk ending for myself and

yknow
when everyone was talking about the shamans nuking Pharloom with void i thought that was an exaggeration

but no

they just did that shit

[uncut holly]

Other than that theres the Architect Crest which is the soul of the First Chorus. Theres also the Witch Crest which his just Greyroot (Its literally literally Greyroot)

[quartz plinth]

Eva racism eva racism

[vital oyster]

Sorry this is kinda not lore related but the discussion channels seem abit psycho, This enemy isn't in the final game right?

[lucid pasture]

He is in verdania

[outer ermine]

im pretty sure yeah

lore discussion is always a bit psycho

[teal finch]

this is in the game i wont say anything else to not spoil

[quartz plinth]

Me in a competition for "Worst living being" ever but my rival are the snail shamans

[vital oyster]

I've played through the whole game I just thought the enemies there we're different

[outer ermine]

nah snail shamans are cool

[modest coyote]

Here me out

[wicked comet]

my theory is that lifeblood is a force from a being that sided with the void as we can see if you do pantheon lifeblood helps you in resting area to let the void climb higher , we can see the only are in HK where lifeblood if present in mass in the abyss

[quartz plinth]

FUCK the snail shamans all my homies hate the snail shamans, jhon the builder from bone bottom shall be avenged

[outer ermine]

they just wanted to troll hornet a little

[rocky smelt]

the reapers were a faction it seems

[modest coyote]

@rocky smelt

[lucid pasture]

nah theres literally that enemy in verdania

[outer ermine]

hmm i dont know about that one

[teal finch]

this is what this channel looks like in comparison to ss-discussion

[uncut holly]

Yeah I think they where the original farmers of Greymoor

[quartz plinth]

Conventiinally attractive/conventionally attractive, there is nothing to hear out

[rain spindle]

We know the being responsible for lifeblood

Hes chill

[sacred heath]

when I’m in a “dooming the entire kingdom” competition and my opponent is the caretaker

[white glacier]

Oh wait that makes sense

[rain spindle]

Its the abyss creature

[quartz plinth]

Who

[rain spindle]

Hes just minding his own business

[rocky smelt]

interesting..

[outer ermine]

honestly ss discussion 1 is just world war while ss discussion 2 is people answering questions

[vital oyster]

ah your right thanks, it seems like it's originally from a different area

[modest coyote]

No I mean the rags are the same

[quartz plinth]

As long as no one asks if lace is a C##Ld we are good

[wicked comet]

its helping the void so it sucks

[steel turret]

Are we sure it’s responsible for lifeblood and not just possessed by it? Void gets along with lifeblood really well

[uncut holly]

So that mechanical Choir guy has a secret room in High Halls where their all apparently being puppetted and you can cut them down and they stop appearing.

[white glacier]

Also

[modest coyote]

The shawls even have the same rips!

[outer ermine]

the rags are the same but i dont think there is correlation between those bugs

[rain spindle]

Hes on godhome

[white glacier]

Is Greyroot similar to the Pale Lady?

[quartz plinth]

Who???

[outer ermine]

perhaps

[rain spindle]

My guy knight controls the void

Void is cool

[uncut holly]

Their the same type of creature their both Roots, also Greyroot is insanely powerful

[modest coyote]

I think there must be some connection- the clawmaidens “harvest” silk don’t they?

[vital oyster]

I think this is the original info for that enemy

[outer ermine]

they are just so far apart in the world and one is a robot so im not sure honestly

[rocky smelt]

this is the aknid guys who hold mossberries

[wicked comet]

not always knight controls a part of the void not all in the true ending cutscene you dont see void tendrils trying to attack hornet stop but instead they are slashed by the knight

I am supposed to go to sleep T-T

[modest coyote]

I mean I don’t know why but I feel there is some connection the shawls literally have the same rip and curve

[steel turret]

Maybe we’re gonna get a void dlc? There’s much more down there than just the knight

[rain spindle]

Yeah buuut he at least controls the part in hallownest

[outer ermine]

i dont think knight controls all of the white he can just control the part of the void that is himself

[rain spindle]

Hornet will try to reunite with them

[wicked comet]

probly not

[teal finch]

in general the robots' shapes do appear to be designed based off actual bugs (ex: cogwork dancers)

[rain spindle]

Thats the abyss dlc

[white glacier]

Or the void in Hallowsnest

[uncut holly]

Greyroot does a lot of things.

You cant read Greyroots mind with the needolin, they overpower Hornet, they stop you from going into the Void Sea unless you get rid of them, they are able to go through all Silk related things and break out of the cage if you are caged by a Fly, Eva is terrified of them and is afraid they will take them aswell. Greyroot also has an ending

[outer ermine]

maybe but it wont be easy to get there

[uncut holly]

If Greyroot is not a higher being, they are a powerful being atleast.

[steel turret]

We know there’s gonna be dlc and that team cherry had ideas for a void expansion, there’s a good chance it’ll be the focus of it

[white glacier]

Yeah just like they’re so different from the Pale Lady it’s unnerving

[outer ermine]

ok greyroot is actually cracked wtf

[wicked comet]

I do hope they extend the whole theory around the void , and the everbloom being the first light! and where all pale beings were before they all decided to start going to random kingdoms and proclaming godhood

[narrow glacier]

You can’t be caged by the fly if you’re rooted? That’s awesome!

[steel turret]

Goddamn where did that thing come from?

[narrow glacier]

To be fair, there is a pale/higher being seemingly related to them.

[quartz plinth]

Ofc it had to be something from vilewater bruh 😭

[unkempt viper]

i know a pale AND higher being 👅👅😍😍🤤🤤

[uncut holly]

Greyroot seemingly has always been here

[white glacier]

To see someone like I want to know is the snails and how they figured the void shit out

[quartz plinth]

Im surprised it did not kill hornet upright

[narrow glacier]

I hope whatever dlc we get goes further into the Grey Root/White Lady

[steel turret]

Only reason it doesn’t is that it’s a parasite

[rain spindle]

Grey Root is dead

[quartz plinth]

Who?

[rocky smelt]

its not greyroot herself possesing hornet is it?

[outer ermine]

grey root tried to rebirth itself trough hornet ??

[narrow glacier]

Yes, but there could be more or something else related

[rain spindle]

It wanted to rebirth inside hornet but hornet aborted it

[wicked comet]

Snail shaman from what we now aren't the ancient civilization that worshiped the void just people who like to experiment with it

[quartz plinth]

I haven't 100% the game yet but does Hornet ever speak of the Pale king? Like you know, her dad

[outer ermine]

damn who knows how many bugs greyroot took to keep on living

[unkempt viper]

pale king 🤤🤤🤤🤤

[steel turret]

Do you think lifeblood is gonna be dlc content or hollow knight 3 content?

[uncut holly]

Greyroot only really takes control of Hornet if you try to jump into the Void sea with them. Which I mean, fair enough.

[wicked comet]

Yeah only on e

[outer ermine]

yeah she calls him a fool in one journal entry

[quartz plinth]

White lady Speech bubble

[rain spindle]

I think lifeblood is done

[modest coyote]

There is literally NO GOOD EVIDECNE that the snail shamans are ancient civilisation

[narrow glacier]

Probably cuz of Hornets heritage. Which Grey root was probably counting on

[quartz plinth]

MY GOAT IS A PALE KING HATER LETS GOOOOOO

[wicked comet]

That is what I said

[narrow glacier]

Both maybe. I can see Lifeblood being here for the long run.

[rain spindle]

I kinda want to see lace and the knight interacting

[quartz plinth]

Snails can live pretty long, i rest my case

[unkempt viper]

in the kingsmould one

[modest coyote]

Yeah I’m agreeing with you

[outer ermine]

i would say that counts as hornet calling him a fool for sure

[rain spindle]

They could bond

[steel turret]

They wouldn’t add so much lifeblood lore if it wasn’t gonna be expanded on in the future, they didn’t have to make it an infectious force

[rocky smelt]

ik but isnt greyroot dead? U see her statue root thing back in her hut that u can break after u get cursed

[rain spindle]

What else can they add

[white glacier]

Wait what really? That’s crazy. But I still am curious because this another place where we have an actual Void Pool sans the dead older sibling shades with actual like a somewhat working workshop

[narrow glacier]

…………….
“STOP IGNORING ME”

[wicked comet]

She was never a daddy's girl

[steel turret]

Lifeblood god as the main villain of hollow knight 3

[rain spindle]

Lifeblood god seems chill tho

[outer ermine]

daddy was never in her life after birth 💔 🥀

[white glacier]

And this one didn’t even try to seep through Hollows nest

[outer ermine]

bro was nice to the only child he shouldnt have

[neat sandal]

so this place called organ sleeper in asset file
and look by how much spools around.
I think GMS just made them and them maintain themself
and GMS just sleep
that may the reason they think GMS abandoned them

[wicked comet]

Wdym ?

[uncut holly]

If you use the machine Greyroot chills out a bit but never goes away, you can use them, but it seems like they are no longer causing a problem.

[quartz plinth]

Hold on her writting is fore?

[unkempt viper]

pale king was so freaky wtf

[narrow glacier]

There was that one abyssal/lifeblood creature in the files of Hollow Knight

[rain spindle]

hug

[steel turret]

TBF she fooled around with the void too, she got a lot from daddy dearest

[uncut holly]

Oh their Needolin dialogue says that they were "Discarded..." "Forgotten..."

[steel turret]

That’s what I thought before I saw act 3 wormways

[narrow glacier]

I wonder if Team Cherry dropped the connection between lifeblood and the abyss or if they’re gonna use it later

[outer ermine]

one theory ive seen is that it is a corpse of a higher being possesed by lifeblood

[quartz plinth]

She got a cool ass coat she never wore again...

[white glacier]

The Weavers were also trying to figure out the Void as well but it has the Arcane Egg that is similar in Hallowsnest with its own old language and such

[rain spindle]

People dont talk about it. But hornet takes a lot after pale king

[quartz plinth]

Doc you guys think the dlc will allow us to change our clothes

[modest coyote]

Pale king the GOAT

[rocky smelt]

idk i just dont view the twisted bud and greyroot as the same thing, just highly related

[outer ermine]

so what i think that lifeblood isnt controlled by a specific higher being or a sentinet creature its a bit like void. Its a substance that can posses creatures and mutate them

[modest coyote]

Definitely not

[steel turret]

We all owe him an apology

[unkempt viper]

Naked hornet expansion

[white glacier]

So we have an actual void pool under Pharloom that isn’t seeping through the land unlike Hallowsnest

[wicked comet]

Yeah the ancient civilization was there but they weren't the weaver , the weaver just came there looking for a way to kill the GMS

[rocky smelt]

i hope so i wanna wear the white palace dress

[modest coyote]

Cause it’s under a lake of fire?

[steel turret]

Maybe there isn’t a higher being tied to it yet, but a new god could be born of it?

[unkempt viper]

uh

[wicked comet]

It was only seeping cuz someone messed with it and brought to his palace

[outer ermine]

that could be

[rain spindle]

The godhome in silksong is implied to be inside hornets own memories. The vespa boss fight in the archives hints at that

Im guessing the knight will be a pantheon boss

[outer ermine]

imagine if a powerful being gets corrupted by lifeblood

[unkempt viper]

wait that's an amazing way to implement it

[outer ermine]

does lifeblood have a will?

[rain spindle]

The knight is kinda proof that it cant happen

[steel turret]

Or a godseeker fiddles around with it

[white glacier]

I know I meant like there was another there a long time ago that the Weavers stumbled upon. But it’s so old that the only thing we got is the Arcane egg and even that was probably older than the Weavers of Pharlooms time

[unkempt viper]

instead of going into their dreams you go into your own memories of the fight and replay

[narrow glacier]

So far comparing him to other higher being/rulers. he’s multiple steps ahead.

[teal finch]

oh yeah wormways lifeblood totally recontexualizes the lifeblood creature in the abyss if you interpret it this way

[outer ermine]

the knight is also made out of void and pale king

[quartz plinth]

Do you guys think TR and GMS would have gotten along?

[wicked comet]

No lifeblood has a higher being for it it's just hard to see it you need to do all P in HK and then go to the locked room down in God home you will find it there it's like a big worm with many blue eyes

[rain spindle]

Hornet says her shell resist it this implies higher beings cant be corrupted

[outer ermine]

the thing is im not sure if its a lifeblood controlling higher being or a dead higher being controlled by the lifeblood

[narrow glacier]

I think void is everywhere that sentient beings are. It seems to be the dark mirror to the soul

[unkempt viper]

hornet can't get infected by it either (infected fatally, she can overdose but it has no longer term effects)

[outer ermine]

maybe dead ones can

[rain spindle]

I mean

[rich cloak]

Them competing to see who can manipulate the most bugs as a hobby

[wicked comet]

Pretty sure that is not it since focus of god home bring things to their original state ( abs rad , pure vessel)

[white glacier]

Or an accumulation of dead souls or what lefts of it…

[unkempt viper]

wouldn't lifeblood had done something to pale wyrms corpse

[rain spindle]

Grimm, Pale King, GMS, maybe Unn.

They all dead

The only ones alive are White Lady and The Knight

[outer ermine]

hmm good point

[steel turret]

They have a lot in common, enslaving bugs, forming hive minds, getting abandoned by the tribe of bugs they created. If they aren’t fighting over territory they’d get along swimmingly

[white glacier]

Wait… Are there any other Pale-ish beings in Silksong?

[outer ermine]

the grandma silk

[white glacier]

Other than well us and Lace?

[unkempt viper]

unn is such a bitch slug the only half decent higher being is pale king

[white glacier]

Okay yeah that one too

[unkempt viper]

anything that descends from pale king id assume, so all vessels

[outer ermine]

im pretty sure grandma silk is referred to as a pale being even

[steel turret]

She’s like the evil mirror version of the pale king

[wicked comet]

Also we know it has a will to side with the void as when you are doing P5 it helps you gives you life blood between rests the knight is the only one that can't overdose on it

[rocky smelt]

since when is Unn dead? am i forgetting something

[rain spindle]

Yeah they are parallels

[gray iris]

what does bell beast no go to the abyss what is the lore reason bell beast is such a pussy i wish we could feel bell beast to the bell bearing eater and team up with the bell bearing eater to kill lost lace

[rain spindle]

Theory because she keeps sleeping for longer times each time

One day she will end up drad

[outer ermine]

ok so lifeblood does have will and is controlled by a higher being or at least has a higher being that made lifeblood

[white glacier]

Similar to GMS funny enough

[rocky smelt]

ok so she aint confirmed dead

[outer ermine]

probably not dead just very weak for some reason and is growing weaker

[white glacier]

Since they tried to force sleep on her

[outer ermine]

can higher beings just die because they are like soooo old

[unkempt viper]

because it'd obviously not survive 😭

[steel turret]

Wasn’t grandmother silk getting weak with age?

[meager zinc]

Haven't finished the game yet, just wondering, does the game make it clear if delicate flower ( or any of the hollow knight endings) is the "canon one" or does it keep it ambiguous?

[outer ermine]

hmm idk

[rain spindle]

No, the weavers weakened her

With the citadel

[unkempt viper]

theres a canon ending

[teal finch]

unns jsut a chill guy!

[steel turret]

Oh there’s no ambiguity whatsoever

[meager zinc]

Fuck yeah thanks

[quartz plinth]

So do we know anything about who could have made the citadel/GMS's origin

[unkempt viper]

complete silksong true ending, very obvious in the ending cutscene

[outer ermine]

also what is up with zylotol. He mentions that he has a master

[rain spindle]

Weavers

[teal finch]

weavers made citadel (mask maker dialogue confirms this)

[rocky smelt]

some people think its ambiguous between two endings but i think its pretty clearly only one

[neat sandal]

weavers made Citadel to lull GMS to sleep

[steel turret]

I think the weavers made the citadel, but GMS’s origin.. idk, prolly the same as the other pale beinfs

[meager zinc]

Ah ok, thank you

[white glacier]

Though in one of the endings if we do try to subsume/bind a pale beings power we become fully Pale than half pale

[unkempt viper]

coral dlc with axolotl master boss 👅👅

[steel turret]

That master is either dlc or sequel content

[white glacier]

Which is interesting to be honest which implies that if you manage to beat a pale being you too can become pale

-kind of?-

[outer ermine]

i wonder if zylotols master is directly related to lifeblood

[outer ermine]

well i think thats just a unique case with hornet

[unkempt viper]

i would heavily doubt it

[outer ermine]

and her bind ability

[wicked comet]

Yes

[steel turret]

When hornet gets back from Pharloom and confronts the hollow knight on not coming to help

[rain spindle]

Thats the knigjt

[white glacier]

For now but it’s something to expand upon if ever we get something like a regular bug getting more than enlightenment

[rain spindle]

Look at them horns

[lethal burrow]

I just realized, did the radiance really create the moths or did she simply ascend them from the Luoma-flies?

In a similar way to the weavers and grand mother silk?

[steel turret]

Whoops, just wasn’t used to seeing them so tall

[quartz plinth]

So was herrah a Weaver?

[gray iris]

is that the hollow knight from hollow knight 1

[rain spindle]

She created them

[unkempt viper]

really cool theory

[lethal burrow]

seer does turn into a luma fly for whatever reason

[outer ermine]

can anyone check act 3 zylotol dialogues . Is it clear that lifeblood forces a will onto zylotol or no

[white glacier]

It could be implied they did the same thing

[unkempt viper]

lie, they ascended from grubs and radiance is an ascended grub mommy

[unkempt viper]

I think someone said something about him being content/not minding being taken over so idk

[quartz plinth]

WAIT WAIT WAIT, was herrah's plan all along to have a kid with a Pale being so they could eventually save pharloom and reclaim it for the weavers?

HOLY SHIT??????? 5D chess???????

[outer ermine]

i feel like if lifeblood forced a will upon him it would be clear from his dialogues

[unkempt viper]

the place where u get abilities those tiny shrines say "daughter from a distant land reclaim the future of our haunted kingdom"

[rain spindle]

Likely she just wanted a daughter

[wicked comet]

About citadel creation I have big big theory : weavers were part of the builders of the citadel
The citadel was build by GMS but things like bell shrines were made by weavers.
Song of any kind (voice , needolin , bell) can repel the haunting ( from GMS)
If you want me to prove any of these facts just ask

[unkempt viper]

it was a deal

[rain spindle]

Yea

[unkempt viper]

what would she get out of it if not that

[modest coyote]

The weavers are (mostly) infertile

[quartz plinth]

I do wonder why is she wearing red in the red memory

[modest coyote]

The deal was to get a child

[unkempt viper]

probably lost its color with age

[steel turret]

Was GMS just bad at making bugs or did she do that on purpose?

[unkempt viper]

also happened to thk

[quartz plinth]

Considering herrah's appareance, she might have been the only one capable of reproducing between her kind

[outer ermine]

hornet is the goddess of color red

[lucid pasture]

id say no because herrah definitely liked hornet, but it is not an impossibility the weavers there were trying to raise up her somewhat for this.

[wicked comet]

Yes they are ascended species not the original ones so reproducing was a mess and almost impossible

[lethal burrow]

I don't know about that. I think maybe it was a hope but harrah's whole message to her child was pretty much "live the life you want to live not what others want for you." so it would sort of undercut that if her whole plan was to have hornet go save her homeland.

[junior slate]

weavers are our only example of an ascended species, right? maybe that's just how it is

[wicked comet]

She was capable of reproducing because she did it with the pale king

[outer ermine]

maybe moths??

[white glacier]

Also they weren’t the only Weavers

[quartz plinth]

I never said that she didn't love hornet, i doubt she would have gone along with the plan if she didn't end up loving what came out of it

[wicked comet]

For now yes

[unkempt viper]

pale king was in a spider thing 3x his size 😭

[white glacier]

We see in the Cradle several of the same Runic Cages that trapped Hornet

[steel turret]

I thought the pale king ascended normal bugs, and that’s what the “granting intelligence” stuff was about

[outer ermine]

the moths wielded dreams just like weavers can wield silk

[quartz plinth]

4 times if we take his goofy ass hat

[modest coyote]

We don’t know

[lethal burrow]

Who knows maybe that that's what the pale king beacon did for all we can guess

But for confirmed cases, the answer is yes

[wicked comet]

She called it a fair bargain so maybe 🤔 she enjoyed it??

[unkempt viper]

ascending as in bringing change to a race like making caterpillars into moths

[lethal burrow]

Where is this information coming from?

[steel turret]

Yeah that’s what I’m saying

[unkempt viper]

pale king definitely knew what he was doing after white lady

[modest coyote]

Conversation with Eva

[outer ermine]

eva

[vital oyster]

yay i found confirmation that Verdania was orignally called Aspid and was where The Wormways is now

[modest coyote]

“The curse of our tribe… conception near impossible”

[junior slate]

eva and hornet discuss it a little + circumstantial evidence of all the partial weavers who are "last of their line"

[lucid pasture]

no yea its judt that her dislogue with hornet in red memory seems to imply she was kinda intensely against the way the other weavers were raising her up. so idt she would do that for thst reason. but maybe she would in the past, or she was "forced" by the weaver culture surrounding her, who knows

[cedar skiff]

herrah just really wanted a kid

[quartz plinth]

It would be embarassing for pale king if she didn't, he was bassically a god

[cedar skiff]

herrah actively encouraged to do hornet whatever the fuck she wants anyway

[lethal burrow]

could I get the full context dialogue for this if it's not too much to ask?

[neat sandal]

despite that. pretty impressive that there is 1/8 weaver exist

[outer ermine]

maybe she just waned a daughter and weavers saw that as an opportunity

[modest coyote]

I imagine the less weaver the less the curse effects

[quartz plinth]

To be fair we don't know if weavers can die of old age

[unkempt viper]

the knight is the king of hallownest right

[wicked comet]

Not really just for it she hoped hornet would be the child to free pharloom at first the child was intended with a higher being not a pale one but just one of high status but he died leaving her no children so she resorted to the contract with the pale king to have hornet and leave the weavers hope

[quartz plinth]

Herrah get your big aaah horns outta the way i can't see

[outer ermine]

ok also did the citadel seek out weavers to the capture and destroy or was it gms

[lucid pasture]

yes thats what i think is more likely. tbh i would prefer her to have been maniac and brought hornet to the world because she somewhat hoped hornet to free pharloom just for how it would work thematically but i dont think thats how she is lol

[wicked comet]

Nah his vessel is broken in all ending that have being confirmed cannon

[vital oyster]

oh wow

confirmed the cut "barnacle bay" area is called Pharloom Bay and was attatched to a cut area called Gloom. It was where Verdania and Bilewater is now

[sleek pier]

Is the Void evil? I was under the impression that it was more or less neutral after HK, but it seems to be monovalent in SS. Or is it just GMS taking control of it?

[outer ermine]

holy shit not a horrible evil parent in my hollow knight game whatt

[wicked comet]

Maybe a dlc

[rain spindle]

Depends if you are hornet or not

[rocky smelt]

man i wish they didnt cut this

[rain spindle]

If you are it's chill

[outer ermine]

void just wants to consume

[vital oyster]

(for context this is from the game files and is the sprite used in the save select)

[unkempt viper]

he's related to pale king though so HYPOTHETICALLY if he were to get freaky with something it'd have a shell like other vessels right

[wicked comet]

It's not evil it's just instinctually devours soul and can be shaped if you use soul + will

[cedar skiff]

she nudged hornet in the right direction but she surely didnt mind what hornet ends up doing

[outer ermine]

she was busy being sacrificed as a dreamer

[rocky smelt]

are there cut enemies or npcs in the files?

[wicked comet]

Maybe

[vital oyster]

not from what I can see

[rain spindle]

Theres a cut vespa boss fight

[cedar skiff]

although i think this could be taken as meaning pharloom i think it was more that she hoped hornet would be able to find another means of hope beyond anyway, not specifically pharloom

[wicked comet]

Likely saved for dlc

[steel turret]

I wouldn’t call it evil, moreso volatile. It’s like radiation, uranium isn’t evil but you shouldn’t be anywhere near it, same thing with void

[rain spindle]

But only that

[unkempt viper]

so the knight can take pale kings place and get freaky with lace and create hornet 2

[lucid pasture]

well this doesnt really deny an option that weaver tribe wanted herrah to do that despite herrah herself not rlly wanting it

[outer ermine]

i think she was thinking about the normal silksong ending where hornet becomes the 'queen of the weavers' and wanted something else to happen

[wicked comet]

1.lace isn't a real creature it's just a being of pure silk
2. No the knight is still make of void and his body is dead inside he is made of void that devours soul

[junior slate]

i assume vessels are also infertile

[sleek pier]

Vessels are walking corpses

[quartz plinth]

Never cook again

[outer ermine]

void zombie

[cedar skiff]

alas herrah definetly deep down wanted hornet to do those things and be great, but what made her a good mother (besides fucking dipping) was that she never put pressure on hornet to be anything unlike literally every other parental figure in her life (except the pale king who just didnt give a shit)

[teal finch]

and thats why shes the goat

[wicked comet]

What hornets says to the white lady makes it clears they wanted to give her strength in mind , care and claw so she can free herself from the shackles of her birth

[quartz plinth]

To be fair she became a dreamer to save hallonwest from the infection and secure a future for Hornet

[outer ermine]

pale king was busy making buzzsaws and zany void contraptions

[icy quarry]

mom of the year by hollow knight standards tbf

[steel turret]

NGL he’s probably the guy who taught hornet to make gadgets

[quartz plinth]

Mom of the year by irl standars too #tbh

[wicked comet]

Nah that is vespa

[outer ermine]

perhaps because i dont know any other 'crafty' individuals in hallownest

[wicked comet]

Vespa was her mentor r

[rocky smelt]

pale king laid up in his palace playing with toys for 1000 years 😭

[sleek pier]

PK wasn't evil he was just a deadbeat father

[icy quarry]

wait so is hornet a little void now??? as a treat maybe. her death cocoon has a void imprint of her, or am i miss interprating it

[rain spindle]

The knight probably can have children ig

[silk dirge]

no

thats not void

[outer ermine]

nah i think thats just CORPSE

[steel turret]

She taught hornet to use a nail but are we sure she taught hornet to make gadgets?

[quartz plinth]

Pale king LOCKS himself on the HYPERBOLIC white palace for 5000 YEARS!!!!!

[steel turret]

As a god they can probably just shape some void into kids

[teal finch]

tc: we do a lil trolling

[junior slate]

pretty sure hornet learned how to craft from weavers if anything? given the silk animation in red memory when she's just a lil baby

[icy quarry]

dont string ,me up or anything i js wanna get the void allegations outta the way early

[wicked comet]

Nah maybe just baby spiders we do see that after death hornet wake up on the seat so maybe its all just a dream

[rain spindle]

Probably kinda like the pale king does

[outer ermine]

to be fair pale king & white lady really regreted what happened so even if he was horrible at least he had some remorse

[rain spindle]

Like go to someone and somehow have children

[silk dirge]

i wonder if the buzzsaws in the white palace are a kind of dream defense similar to the shit you see in inception

[steel turret]

Legend has it he’s still training to this day

[lucid pasture]

they killed 1 million children but they felt remorse so its ok

[rain spindle]

Cuz i doubt pale king and the whitr lady had... orthodox sex

[silk dirge]

it honestly would make a lot of sense

[icy quarry]

its all a dream is kinda lazy esp bc her coccoon is a real thing in the game

[wicked comet]

Her gadgets in HK are different from SS

[sleek pier]

Is Herrah supposed to be a weaver? she doesn't look like a weaver

[outer ermine]

i didnt say its ok i was just saying that he at least grasped the situation afterwards

[wicked comet]

She does act like she wakes up from a dream everytime you respawn check it

[steel turret]

Maybe it’s her wyrm foresight kicking in

[lucid pasture]

ik lol im just being funny

[steel turret]

It’s not a dream, it’s precognition

[wicked comet]

Maybe cuz the knight did the same

[icy quarry]

so does the knight but it still leaves a shade behind

[outer ermine]

hornet time travels real quick to the last time she sat down

[wicked comet]

One thing for sure hornet is NOT void

[junior slate]

i don't think death is canon in silksong given that no npc ever mentions it. and stuff like the vintage nectar/ant basement quest would be REALLY weird, where you wake back up and dive right back into the basement without mentioning the infestation at all. easier to get away with that stuff with a silent protag, but in silksong it feels a lot more like just a gameplay mechanic compared to HK

[lethal burrow]

aren't the steel soul modes, the canonical versions of the game events? Sure shades have a little bit of lore but in reality, you should just die once and have your shade be left behind and NOT respawn at a bench.

same with hornet.

[outer ermine]

are snail shamans void though?

[junior slate]

i think confessor jiji's existence makes it hard to say steel soul is the only possible canon in hk

and the colosseum shade room

[quartz plinth]

100% waifu
0% Void

[icy quarry]

yea there are some weird spots where dying kinda breaks immersion, but otherwise what would the silk eaters be eating

[lethal burrow]

why

[quartz plinth]

Was mossbag cooking when he said that or

[sleek pier]

Do not the spider.

[outer ermine]

they be eating silk

[wicked comet]

Nope at least with the info we have no we have to info to disprove or prove ut

[icy quarry]

its kinda like death in most games witha creative respawn where its one foot in cannon one foot in gameplay choices

[outer ermine]

well they are for sure related to void & soul

also in ruined chapel there are some snail shaman ritual lore thingies that require sarifices lol

[icy quarry]

soul yea but is there any proof other than them having black bodies

[outer ermine]

they use void

[wicked comet]

They do know quite a lot about soul and since soul and void are always linked yeah , specially soul the whole tablet explaining how they collect it is creepy

[wicked comet]

Summon not use

[icy quarry]

oh when do they do that

[outer ermine]

and its like supposed to be a known thing that they are into void they even mention at the beggining of act 3

[wicked comet]

Act 3

[icy quarry]

damn i shouldnt be in here i js got to gmsilk

[sleek pier]

Doesn't the snail shaman in soul sanctum turn into shade soul? how does that work?

[wicked comet]

They dont know how to shape the void like ancient civilization

[icy quarry]

i keep seeing ancient civilization faces/architecture in sum spots can someone confirm or not if they come up in act3 wo spoilers

[wicked comet]

That is still a sensitive debate

[icy quarry]

im curious abt them

[outer ermine]

well they are for sure aware of void and try to research/utilize it

[outer ermine]

well there are traces of ancient void civilization in a certain act 3 area

[wicked comet]

You only see them in act 3 and only have the proof of them in tablets and arcane egg

[sleek pier]

Also, do we know why the snails in silksong bound Grandma to the void? I got the impression from their dialogue that they just wanted spectactle (ie big bug getting eaten by black liquid)

[wicked comet]

They are curious about it but so far they can't only summon it not control it PK did a better job

[outer ermine]

also im pretty sure snail shamans somehow consume souls of other bugs and store them

[wicked comet]

Pale beings can only die to the void ( PK and GMS) and they know that so they summoned the void to eat her but she refused to let herself die because lace fell with her

[lucid pasture]

they wanted to genuinely save pharloom somewhat

[wicked comet]

Yeah that is true

[junior slate]

didnt expect her to resist (she only did because lace fell in too)
if gms didn't resist their plan woulda legit just gotten rid of GMS entirely and things would be "fine"

[lucid pasture]

they lowkey a bit evil but not that much

[outer ermine]

so snail shamans have learned to store souls perhaps like the knight in the first game

[outer ermine]

void is not inherently evil it's just destructive