sk-lore

[lucid pasture]

i thought shakra was kinda hard yea

[whole hawk]

Pale King wpuld never.

[uncut holly]

I think Shakra might just be a unique bug with her Tribe at the edge of the Kingdom

[ember river]

Queen's gardens basically stealing half of Unn's lands

[zinc dove]

What's the lore behind the prince's tribe? Why did the GMS go after them?

[uncut holly]

Mantis's dont have tails

[quartz flicker]

Ships that are better than Lacenet.

[ember river]

More than Silk herself, the citadel bugs did

[lucid pasture]

they looked hot and citadel thought they would look good as statued

[uncut holly]

One of the Princes wanted to make peace with the Citadel and they killed him and shoved him in a robot.

They then imprisoned the other Green Prince and exterminated their civilization

[ember river]

That was the peace condition

Also I believe verdania naturally collapsed, the caves just fell in

Or that's the way it's portrayed at least

[ember river]

Hornet is robosexual?

[lucid pasture]

hornet would save huntress by killing all her children

[quartz flicker]

I thought it was implied that Shakra's tribe was from outside of Pharloon. She doesn't look like any other bugs in the kingdom.

[uncut holly]

So you can fight Pinstress, Garmond, and Shakra. Does Pinstress kill you if you die in their fight?

[terse ravine]

yeah, both wear pearls

[lucid pasture]

Yes

[ember river]

Ya

[lucid pasture]

pinstress kills

[uncut holly]

I mean apparently they have the mind of one

According to Seamstress

Theres also the 3rd unknown person who is dead in Bile Water.

[quartz flicker]

what is up with the little side room in Bilewater that just has enemies but no collectibles?

[lucid pasture]

idk what room is that but bilewater is evil it happens

[terse ravine]

My guess is that old Pharloom was more or less divided in Coral militar kingdom, Verdania, Nyleth's realm and Karmelita's skarr tribe, and the arrival of GMS provoked the submittion or exhiliation of them.

Speculating a bit, the frogs of Bilewater would be part of Verdania

[quartz flicker]

this room

[brave mortar]

after the act 3 ending they should have added a scene where lace and hornet make out

[foggy fractal]

after act 3 ending they should add me

[terse ravine]

interesting, now i can't remember if there's some collectible or smt

[neat sandal]

https://mapgenie.io/hollow-knight-silksong/maps/pharloom

[quartz flicker]

oh, huh. I never encountered a living Wardenfly in that room. I do remember the dead one and the cages in there.

What causes the Wardenfly to no longer spawn there?

[tepid mountain]

Maybe if you've already been caught by another?

[quartz flicker]

Haven't been caught on my current save.

[fair zealot]

my best guess is either ||if you've visited the slab already|| or ||if you've started act 2 already||

[quartz flicker]

But I have obtained both the Double Jump and Key of Apostate.

[uncut holly]

So the Pinstresses 3rd relative is in Putrified Ducts not Bile Water, and they give you the thing that makes you immune to Muck Maggots

[silk dirge]

lace is CANONICALLY a child

[runic musk]

If you visited the Slab already it kills off the wardens

[silk dirge]

bro😭

and hornet is a fucking ancient being

[runic musk]

Being in act 2 is irrelevant to not being captured, I got captured in act 2 in my first run.

[silk dirge]

its actually kinda weird bc lace is basically meant to forever be a child

so lace might actually be older than hornet if she was spun before the citadel

[quartz flicker]

This is incorrect. On my first playthrough I visited the Slab, but I got caught by a Wardenfly in Greymoor later.

[silk dirge]

but she is basically forever stuck as a child

[runic musk]

Could be a progression thing in the Slab

Similar how Shakra does not assist you in Hunters March if you progress too far.

[quartz flicker]

The odds of encountering a Wardenfly in Bilewater just seems extremely low.

[silk dirge]

if you just pass through yeah

i think if you get apostate key then you can go into the fight room and just murder them

[fair zealot]

well, when you first get to bilewater you're pretty limited in where you can go, because most of the area needs wings

[silk dirge]

seeing the guards get wiped out by various environmental things around the map is so satisfying

[runic musk]

How would one get that key before getting captured when Mount Fay is connected to Tue slab

Dont you need double jump to get to the Memorial which is an access point to Putrified Ducts

[silk dirge]

just passing through to mount fay doesnt count

[spark valve]

you can get to mount fay without enturing the capture section

[runic musk]

Huh

[quartz flicker]

Even finding Bilewater is less likely than encountering a Wardenfly by chance IMO.

[silk dirge]

i got captured in bilewater

[runic musk]

My keyboards being a piece of shit rn

[fair zealot]

this is true tbh

[scenic stirrup]

Just got to the red memory and i was

[runic musk]

I most commonly get captured in Greymoor

[brave mortar]

it is literally said that she is quite old

[scenic stirrup]

Really Happy seeing the stag sign for some reason

[runic musk]

Is there any other capture zone besides the 2 mentioned?

[scenic stirrup]

💀

[quartz flicker]

One in Far Fields.

[silk dirge]

greymoor, bilewater, deep docks, far fields

[quartz flicker]

I actually killed a Wardenfly in Far Fields without even realizing it was a special encounter.

[runic musk]

So mostly in Act 1 areas

[lucid pasture]

theres one in greymoor?!? waow

[stiff night]

am i insane or is lifeblood really just phazon

[silk dirge]

i actually got stuck in the slab for a while for a really stupid reason

i never checked one of the doors and assumed it needed the heretic key even though i never checked it

so i just spent like an hour wandering around after i had the indolent key

[runic musk]

Should always inspect locks incase you happen to have something for it

[silk dirge]

bc i thought i had missed it

i thought something was broken 😭

[grim onyx]

and Hornet is veery old

[brave mortar]

what are capture zones

[silk dirge]

i thought the penitent dude who you can needolin to bring him out was glitched and would give me the key

[runic musk]

Capture zones as in zones you can get captured by a flea to get transported to the Slab

[brave mortar]

oh

[golden estuary]

this place is LORE. was hard to reach as well

[brave mortar]

a flea?

[silk dirge]

dont insult fleas by confusing them with those flies

[runic musk]

Right flies

Oops

[brave mortar]

i thought u get kidnapped by the big fat ugly musty crust perverted fly

[grim onyx]

The most Hallownest-like zone in all Pharloom

[silk dirge]

fleas are fluffy creatures that deserve to live the slab flies are a disgusting species that hornet is 100% right about in her hunters notes

[brave mortar]

there is literally no lore about this place bror

[golden estuary]

there is

[runic musk]

I meant flies I'm just talking faster than I'm thinking lol

[brave mortar]

what lore is there about it

[golden estuary]

I used the needlden and a ghost talked about the wavers. said his friends were lured down by them

[grim onyx]

Slab flies did give us one of the most badass Hornet moments though

[brave mortar]

oh

i only used melody of the deep there

[silk dirge]

neck crack

[golden estuary]

i used both

[grim onyx]

HER theme starts

[silk dirge]

yeah

for some reason i thought that theme also plays during sherma whiteward

bc sherma calls hornet a "red maiden"

[runic musk]

Hornets motif isnt used too much is it

[grim onyx]

nah, but at least we got 1 song with it

[runic musk]

Slabs the only time I recognized it or maybe I have terrible ears for music

[fair zealot]

hornet is the boss fight

[fair zealot]

it's in a couple of other gauntlets iirc, and ofc red memory

[grim onyx]

Yeah, that's why that moment is awesome

[grim onyx]

It sounded more like white palace to me in red memory, but since both are pretty similar it probably is Hornet's motif

[runic musk]

I remember one of my runs I managed to do that segment damageless

One of few gauntlets I did damageless without actively trying

[covert night]

same

[left oyster]

It is the Pale King motif in Red Memory yes which i found a genius inclusion

[sacred heath]

something something the weight of his influence on hornet’s life is always felt even when he’s nowhere to be seen

[fair zealot]

ah, those two motifs are very similar (if not the same?)

[left oyster]

It gets less subtle the closer you get to the white palace memory too

(I love larkin's music)

[grim onyx]

After all she's the daughter of Hallownest

[grim onyx]

same

[left oyster]

I kinda hoped we'd get some heart to heart with the Pale King to know more about his personality with those he's closer with but it's understandable to maintain the mystery and also shows that he probably was pretty deadbeat

[rain spindle]

Hornet takes a lot after pale king

She also corrupted a vessel

[left oyster]

The vessels in the abyss left behind a shade which is a lingering will, but it's also stated that PV got tarnished by an idea instilled, so what's the deal, WERE there any truly hollow ones or nah

[tiny socket]

She had a fascination with shaws as well

[grim onyx]

idk, not even the Knight is truly Hollow so...

[rain spindle]

He was

Until Hornet at least

[grim onyx]

That's true

[sage heart]

Oh yea why was hornet experiencing cramps or pains in the beginning of the game and after unlocking act 3

[lucid pasture]

wdym why LOL she

1. fell of 19023812012890 meters after being kinda weak
2. was literally almost consumed by void

[runic musk]

If you fell from a great height you'd likely be weak as shit too

[lucid pasture]

yeah LOL

[sage heart]

Nah im built different

I guess because ive done the jump from blasted steps to moss grotto so many times i didnt think it would impact her

[lucid pasture]

i mean when you do it you re kinda prepared and also you arent weak

hornet was without her powers

[runic musk]

Also you can argue part of it was because Hornet got blasted down by powerful shockwaves

[lucid pasture]

she was still recovering it by that point

[narrow hinge]

yeah same this is why i shove old people off cliffs

[sage heart]

[gray radish]

is Hornet and ||Lace|| related ?

[quiet narwhal]

No

Well I mean maybe but barely 💀

[gray radish]

pretty far more than 3 generation

thats good enough

[quiet narwhal]

They're both technically born of weaver and pale being

[shell raptor]

hornet is basically what lace would want to be

[gray radish]

I don't think pale king and pale silk women is related

[gray radish]

Hornet might just be what lace would want to be in

[quiet narwhal]

We can't know for sure since there's zero information on how pale beings work

Other than that they're higher beings

[gray radish]

knowing how higher being in real life works, I don't have much hope that they're not related

i'm talking about zeus

[quiet narwhal]

Higher being in real life 💀

[gray radish]

maybe i'm just high

[quiet narwhal]

I guarantee you real life religion lore has little to no say in what is Canon in hk

[vivid kernel]

@forest scroll

[forest scroll]

Yes

[vivid kernel]

Silksong lore

[forest scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/waah-waa-sad-wah-waaah-gif-25875771

[vivid kernel]

lmao

this lore is it’s own thing

[forest scroll]

who's going to explain the lore?

[vivid kernel]

idk man, maybe me maybe

So hornet was being held hostage at the start of the game, this area is diffirent from Hollow Knight, but it’s in the same world

[timber pond]

And the Steel Bug Illuminati Darkness Angels control the world

The end

[tiny socket]

What’s the story with the glowing butterfly things?

They show up in the mist and one of them frees hornet in the start cutscene

[fervent light]

Lumaflies?

I’m assuming they’re just manifestations of dead bugs’ souls

[pure belfry]

the Pious Isamor statue in Whispering Vaults, near where the Melody of the Vaultkeepers is, calls the Citadel a "Citadel of Stone" and "Unadorned" yet we see it is the exact opposite of that. It has mostly obviously fallen to ruin but we see gold and glass and decoration everywhere.

Why is that?

[tiny socket]

Citadel of stone might reference it being underground

[whole hawk]

The implocation is that the Weavers subverted the original culture and religion of Pharloom

[pure belfry]

that wouldn't really explain calling it "Unadorned" as if it is a humble and undecorated place to match the humble, plain Pilgrims who travel there. My thinking is either this is a deliberate lie, or the Citadel once looked different than what it does now

[whole hawk]

In my head the original Citadel was clearly some humble temple run by ascetic monks similar to what one might find in Nepal.

[pure belfry]

wasn't the Citadel originally built or ruled by the Weavers?

[whole hawk]

It's why the currency is rosaries. The Weavers clearly didn't worship anyone besides GMS. And we know from mask maker they built the Citadel to put GMS to sleep.

[pure belfry]

or was the Citadel long after Pharloom itself?

[whole hawk]

So the only reason here is that there existed a faith before Citadel became an industrial mess.

If we take Isamor at facevalue that means the original religion of Pharloom was far more non-materialistic. Perhaps hindu/buddhist adjacent.

[pure belfry]

where is the Mask Maker in Silksong. I don't remember if I encountered him on my first playthrough

[whole hawk]

Mount Fay top left.

[pure belfry]

oh yeah I remember now

[lucid pasture]

if you hit him aith charged attack he starts talking more shit which you might not have done

[pure belfry]

yeah I don't think I got the charged attack until after I had already done Mount Fay

[ashen ore]

Wait, so is ||Phantom Lace's|| silbing?

[valid compass]

nope

[ashen ore]

i thought they were made of silk too for some reason

[lucid pasture]

i think reading this as siblings or not is kinda simplory, but yes, fhey considered each other siblings

[lucid pasture]

they are

[ashen ore]

Ok

[vivid kernel]

some very interesting dialogue from mister mushroom at the top of the cradle, i'm fairly certain he's talking about the weavers here

[ashen ore]

I really hope we get more stuff on Phantom because they're so attractive compelling from a character standpoint

[pure belfry]

That seems to be implied. They were both created by Grandma. That's what they say if you play Needolin in front of the mirror in Exhaust Organ

[lucid pasture]

Yea

[ashen ore]

Your pfp reminded me
Am I the only one who though the flea guy always had his eyes closed and didnt realize it was a mustache?

[pure belfry]

of?

oh

[pure belfry]

I saw someone say they thought it was eye bags

[vague whale]

YEAH ME TOO AT FIRST

[valid compass]

my mom thought the same

[pure belfry]

I always saw it as a mustache tho

[vague whale]

I still see him like that

[vivid kernel]

i realised it was a mustache when i realised the fleas were russian

[glossy badger]

Same

[ashen ore]

THEYRE WHAT

[vivid kernel]

i imagine all of them with a heavy russian accent

the way they dialogue is written makes me think of that lmao

[vague whale]

they're definitely Russian yes

[pure belfry]

yeah that's how I interpret them too

they also like to drink

[vivid kernel]

so is flea brew just vodka?

[pure belfry]

as the residen Fleafather I can say yes, this is canon

[vivid kernel]

silksong is better than hollow knight because we have alcoholism and drug abuse

[ashen ore]

Players who use Flea Brew are all Alchoholics

[silk dirge]

ok wait i have a sort of theory on first sinner

mr mushroom's quest says she "raged against the silken lie" and judging by the sequence afterwards it seems the "silken lie" was weavers being divine daughters of gms

and then the new part is i think its possible she teamed up with some tribe of flies to rage against her fellow weavers who were then afterwards cursed to become what they are now

i have no evidence for the second part but it sounds plausible

[void smelt]

Whats this room?

[glossy badger]

I want to know what's up with the flies

They're really confusing for me

[silver spire]

guys ujst did the silksong path of pain

now im really confused lol

GMS: miles away from the marrow and still able to mind control bugs there
also GMS: literally INCHES away from the nameless town and not able to mind control them

[deep elk]

That's interesting. Where do you think Hallownest is?

[deep elk]

It's other weavers captured.

[teal drift]

how is the GMS innocence campaign going

[deep elk]

GMS?

[void smelt]

Why are they captured?

[teal drift]

I Think the nameless town bugs didn't have silk infused into them like the citadel bugs

we're not 100% sure on why they were captured but I think it was so silk could eat them and regain some power.

Dialogue implies Hornet was to be a morsel for Silk

[deep elk]

Same reason Hornet was I believe.
something to do with their ability to make their own silk I think? I need to learn the lore more.

[teal drift]

alternatively it's just pure vengeance against the weavers.

[silver spire]

wait what where is this

[void smelt]

why was Hornet captured? It is revealed later?

[teal drift]

kinda, kinda not.

[deep elk]

You need needolin and flea brew for this.

[deep elk]

Can you elaborate? I wanna learn too.

[teal drift]

Lace's dialogue implies GMS wanted to absorb hornet to strengthen herself, but lace's needolin implies Hornet had caught the eye of GMS in some other way.

Lace calls Hornet a morsel and says her act of rebellion was not letting GMS consume Hornet, but then her needolin dialogue can be interpreted as lace fearing Hornet replacing her as Silk's child.

Leading to two theories: silk wanted to adopt Hornet and groom her as her heir, or Silk was houngry and wanted to eat Hornet for power.

[whole hawk]

Yes that's the main wrinkle jn Lace's character.

[silver spire]

oh far fields wtf

interesting

[whole hawk]

She mistakenly believed that Hornet aas her replacement.

[teal drift]

also does anyone know who is speaking to Hornet in the weaver dream sequences? The "daughter of a distant land" sequences.

[whole hawk]

When in reality GMS loved her the most.

[zinc gull]

howdy

[deep elk]

Yea it's a needolin gate. I completely forgot about it before till I was reexploring stuff.

What's GMS?

[teal drift]

Grand Mother Silk, the completely innocent being atop pharloom

[deep elk]

Oh right. Real. Just like Pale King. :3

[teal drift]

It's also possible that GMS actually wanted Hornet to absorb her? But I think its more the opposite.

[rotund rock]

So
The first sinner
I've been seeing the story build over time
And when she said "she called us daughters, she called us divine, she lied"
I got real excited cuz pieces started really clicking into place so I came here to stalk the lore and see if my theories are potentially correct

[deep elk]

Interesting.

[silver spire]

pale king had homeless friendly infrastructure 😠 dont diss my boy like that

[grim onyx]

Wow that's pretty interesting

[teal drift]

I lean towards Silk being houngry. I think Lace was just being insecure about Hornet being better than her.

[deep elk]

I think she had more of a reason than just her heir. That prolly would've been part of it but it went beyond.

Hornet is part pale being.

[deep elk]

SHAWS

[grim onyx]

Yeah most likely taking into consideration how childish is Lace

[silk dirge]

i mean that could just be she was part wyrm also

[teal drift]

My top theory is that silksong is a doordash order gone horribly wrong. You order the demigod burger, but it escapes your dasher's car and kills you.

[silk dirge]

that probably means her silk is extra spicy

bc we know pale beings are supposed to be good with soul

(silk and soul are directly correlated)

[silver spire]

that was gonna be one of my questions, how are silk and soul correlated

[deep elk]

As funny as that sounds, it genuinely could be true.
Like she needed Hornet's Silk.
Maybe hers is in some ways special because of being part wyrm.

[silk dirge]

soul can be made into silk

[silver spire]

and song is apparently one of the primal forces along with silk, so are soul, silk, and song 3 elements in a way

and void is another

[teal drift]

silk is like an accessible version of soul pretty much. It's a form of soul that doesn't bloat the user and mutate them into oblivion.

[deep elk]

Yea coz we generate soul in hot springs too.

Can any other bug generate silk from soul?

[silk dirge]

the weavers

[silver spire]

weavers emaybe?

[silk dirge]

and ofc gms

[deep elk]

Makes sense why they kidnapped them then.

[teal drift]

I wonder if there is a god of music somewhere in the lore. Most things with divine power have a god strongly linked to them in HK.

[grim onyx]

Which is also very attractive to void, right?

[silver spire]

wait ok so soul is what animates all living beings

[teal drift]

void and soul have a funny relationship

[silver spire]

but silk can be used to prolong the life of beings

[silk dirge]

i legitimately thought for a while the final boss of silksong was gonna be called like "The Silksong" or some shit

[deep elk]

It is?

[teal drift]

soul can guide and direct and contain void, or void can overtake soul

[glossy badger]

Absolute cinema

[grim onyx]

Wait i just remembered that the void disturbs if you use the needolin, so it might be the opposite actually lol

[glossy badger]

Grandmother silk was cool but it did get a little chuckle out of me

[teal drift]

tbh if you did defeat "The Silksong," GMS would immediately gain strength

[silver spire]

ykw ill just wait for the mossbag video

[lucid pasture]

i am the Silk Song

[deep elk]

Makes sense.
It's it's opposite.

[silver spire]

even though i have 60% completion rn and im already at the last dive 😭

[deep elk]

And then she (Hornet) silked all over.

[teal drift]

only being at 60% while at the last dive is crazy

[sterile sigil]

it truly was the silk we songed along the way

[teal drift]

bruds going for low% TE already

[deep elk]

Honestly I am slightly bummed out that the true ending ends at such a place. 😭

[silver spire]

ikr, i thought i would have like 80% at least, but now that i think about it, uhhhhh yea i missed a lot

[ashen ore]

So is First Sinner a Weaver

[grim onyx]

Is it though? because I think Radiance's light would be more of an "opposite" to void. But i can see Silk/Soul being opposites of void as well

[deep elk]

Btw is there any way to turn off tasks in the map? I don't want the final task always in my map lol.

[lucid pasture]

yes

[silver spire]

first sinner, brood mother, those 4 quests in bellhart, garmond fight

[deep elk]

Could be a three way?

[silver spire]

and probably a bunch of shop stuf i need to buy out

[silver spire]

void is the ancient enemy of the radiance

wait i wonder what connection silk has to the dream realm

[deep elk]

Rad's light and void's dark are clear parallels.
But Silk could still be like sort of an enemy? Idk. I might just be on something instead of onto something.

[grim onyx]

Right because the needolin can also open memories similar to the ones from the dream realm

[silver spire]

because all the higher beings in HK are in some way shape or form able to manipulate dreams

[silver spire]

and that happens through song

[grim onyx]

Except the memories are more faithful in a sense than the dream realm, like Lost Verdania or the Red Memory

[silver spire]

so is song like able to sort of create a portal to the dream realm

in tandem with silk

[grim onyx]

Which is tied to Silk

[silver spire]

if so, that might be how they put GMS to sleep

[deep elk]

Memories feels more like well, memories. Whereas dream realm is sort of like another dimension, in my opinion at least.

[silver spire]

using needolin or some form of silk+song combo to trap GMS's mind in the dream realm

[teal drift]

songs contain strong memories and emotions, or can evoke them, which links into dreams

dreams and memories are linked a lot in HK

[grim onyx]

Yeah you're actually right. I forgot that the White Palace in HK isn't just a memory but quite literally the White palace in another dimension

[lucid pasture]

actually in silksong sequels dlcs we will be going against Great Mother Song

[teal drift]

It's not impossible that A God of Song could be at play somewhere.

Is there positive evidence for it? .....no

[lucid pasture]

I think song power in silksong is just related to Silk

[deep elk]

Yea I forgot about that too. 😭
But coz of that, it's ingrained in my memory that dream realm is more like another dimension. Not to mention godhome and the radiance.

[silver spire]

what;s really interesting is how void can work through any form of force

[grim onyx]

Maybe Grandmother Silk is also tied to Song and we haven't seen it yet.

[deep elk]

Elaborate?

[lucid pasture]

Like the sngss are being produced by silk 💯 making sounds

[silver spire]

like it responds to song, can spread through silk, and can also transform soul spells

[teal drift]

yeah, the powerful songs are played on silken instruments

[grim onyx]

But if there is a higher being tied to Silk, there must also be one tied to song at least

[silver spire]

the knight is a clear example of its interactions with soul

[lucid pasture]

i dont think its specifically about song power

[silver spire]

while void is able to use the threads of GMS to spread across pharloom

also the sound of when enemies get infected with void is similar to the sound of vessels rising from the abyss

[grim onyx]

Yeah, and it's also interesting how it can't be controlled as the Pale King thought

[silver spire]

the hunter's journal entry in silksong for wingsmoulds was literally "pale kings stupid for tryna control void fr fr"

[grim onyx]

Yeah and Hornet outright says it when speaking to idk if Lace or the Shamans lol

[silver spire]

the void isn't unified, but to an extent it is?

i can't tell

since when enemies get infected, they still go on to attack hornet

[grim onyx]

There's people thinking Pharloom's void isn't the same as Hallownest's

To me they are because of... reasons

[silver spire]

uhhh...

look man i haven't gotten true ending yet, so dont spoil that one

[grim onyx]

But I can also see it being different

[silver spire]

i feel like true ending is gonna be absolute cinema, i JUST got to that part

[grim onyx]

yeah yeah dw

[silver spire]

i mean, theres similar creatures in the abyss

like shadow creepers

[grim onyx]

That's why i kept it vague

[runic musk]

Hornet also calls Sula a fool while they were conjuring Summoned Savior

[silver spire]

???????

is that steel soul

[grim onyx]

It is, keep yourself away from ANY kind of spoilers. I watched it today and it was AMAZING

[runic musk]

Yea

[silver spire]

ohhhhh ok

[silver spire]

the last dive cutscene was cinema

i finally got to hear the release trailer music again 🥹

[grim onyx]

Yeahh and the beginning of Act 3 where you escape the Abyss while "Enter Pharloom" sounds is PEEAAAK

[runic musk]

That segment should've been longer tbh

[silver spire]

dude i was so surprised by that, like i was climbing up

[runic musk]

The song is barely able to play at all unless you slip up a lot

[silver spire]

and the music just kicked in

[grim onyx]

Yeah i agree

[lucid pasture]

you dhouldnt be on this chat

shouldnt

[silver spire]

i mean im basically there lol

just need to beat ||lost lace||

[lucid pasture]

go finish it then !!

[grim onyx]

Such a fun fight

[silver spire]

uhhhh, im scared

so scared in fact that i dipped out of the abyss, went to the cradle, and did the path of pain instead

[lucid pasture]

Lol

[silver spire]

and went to the surface, which is as far as you ca get from the abyss

💀

[grim onyx]

lol

[silver spire]

im fried

[runic musk]

Otherwords you got so scared you went from the absolute bottom to the absolute top

[silver spire]

also its worth mentioning that void doesnt seem to be able to spread on its own

like void wasnt able to spread to surface

[grim onyx]

I did that as well, but that's because i realized that if I defeated Lace without the 100% I would've had to beat her again lmao

[silver spire]

but was able to spread across pharloom because of GMS

also, NEW LIFEBLOOD LORE

[runic musk]

Yea GMS refusing to fucking die and spreading silk to the surface basically gave void something to use as like a conduit

[silver spire]

i want to know EVERYTHING about lifeblood lore

[grim onyx]

Kinda like Radiance's infection with the poor Hollow Knight

[silver spire]

so it seems like lifeblood can also corrupt bugs

so lifeblood in essence is like a parasite almost

it seeps into creatures, strengthens them as a desirable outcome, and uses them to reproduce

[grim onyx]

I think it was pretty heavily hinted in HK. The difference is that there was almost no bugs to corrupt in Hallownest, but in Pharloom however...

[silver spire]

but still though, no new lore on my boy the abyss creature 😭

[grim onyx]

yeah :/

[silver spire]

i want to know whether this guys a higher being or not

[lime nova]

I'm currently working on writing the script for a lore/narrative themes and messaging analysis of Silksong video

[sterile sigil]

did we ever get more info on what exactly eva is?

[silver spire]

part weaver or smth idk

[lime nova]

My thesis is essentially that the game's central message is about free will, and the relationship between a creator and its creation

[sage heart]

So what is the whole deal with the cursed ending like who or what is the tree stuff all about

[grim onyx]

Idk, only thing I know is that she's part weaver like Hornet

[lime nova]

Roots are very powerful beings

[silver spire]

honestly dont know

[silk dirge]

i think its about striving for a better world regardless of the circumstances you are born in

[silver spire]

thats actually a very nice analysis tbh

[sage heart]

Theres a root being?

[silver spire]

this too

[lime nova]

My guess is that Eva is a lab experiment for an extremely powerful weaver that failed, and she's required to live in stasis to survive

[strong abyss]

idk if this is the right place but would we consider shakra to be a parasitic wasp, kinda seeing a similar build

[silver spire]

white lady idk. is greyroot a being?

[grim onyx]

We know it's a curse, a parasite and it's also hinted that Roots are powerful

[sage heart]

Oic

[lime nova]

White lady is the only character in HK described as "root", greyroot is the second. She is depicted as extremely powerful, with her ritual causing the death of two pale beings

[grim onyx]

Yeah exactly

Maybe White Lady was able to create the vessels because she was part root and also a pale being?

[lime nova]

Hornet acknowledges greyroot to be not a bug

[nimble vault]

I don't know if we do but I remember there being some dialogue between hornet and her about how weavers (she says "their tribe") were cursed and that bearing a child would be painful. So seems like she was a failed child

[grim onyx]

Right. Forgot about that.

[lime nova]

so yes, we've met two root beings in this series, The White Lady and Greyroot

[grim onyx]

Three if we count the little parasite

[lime nova]

They have the same eyes too

Or at least, similar

[grim onyx]

Yeah. Maybe the White Lady transformed herself like the Pale King did

[sage heart]

I remember seeing the white lady and i was like…that is one weird looking bug haha

[lime nova]

Yeah, she's just not a bug

[sage heart]

Yeah haha

[grim onyx]

That also explains why the Knight is WAAAAY more powerful than Hornet despite her being part Weaver and part Wyrm (before Silksong, that is)

[ashen ore]

Hollow Knight: Silkswap
(Silly thing I made cuz why not
Also I know Twelfth Architect isn't a sibling of the seamstress/pinstress but their designs fit togeht faily nicely and I needed someone for sheo)

[grim onyx]

Broken Vessel could be the ||first sinner||

[silver spire]

4

[ashen ore]

Considered it, but I think Hollow Knight fit better

[sage heart]

Explain. Is more powerful cuz he is the void or just naturally? Like i heard a theory that hornet is weaker so takes more dmg hence the two mask damage being so common

[grim onyx]

I think the Knight is Just more powerful because he's both a pale being AND made of Void, and that alone makes it REAALLY strong. But being part Root because of the White Lady could explain that even more.

[sage heart]

Ohh

[nimble vault]

Seeing the greyroot honestly brings out so many more questions about pale beings (||also the Palestag from the Green prince storyline||). Could it be that the greyroot is what species the white lady is but she's a more powerful version because she's a pale being? and then the pale king is a more powerful version of the wyrm (||and then the same thing with the stag||)?

[tiny socket]

Also the vessels were designed, whereas hornet wasn’t really engineered for a specific purpose

[lucid pasture]

imho if youre gonna put a broken vessel it quite literally has no one better than phantom. She literally mirrors hornets attacks and also is quite literally a "broken vessel" when compared with lace lol

[lime nova]

If we're getting into phylogeny, most creatures in Hollow Knight are based on insects, insects in real life are six legged animals with exoskeletons, most closely related to custaceans. I don't believe there are any crustaceans in Hollow Knight. Another common group in Hollow Knight are arachnids. Arachnids are eight legged relatives of crustaceans and insects, including things like spiders, scorpions, and ticks. Next are gastropods (snails and slugs) which are not very closely related to any of the previous groups at all. Hollow Knight also features some worms from the class Annelida. I can't currently think of any characters aside from roots, void, etc that don't fit into one of these categories

[ashen ore]

*They
Also, who would be Ghost then?

[grim onyx]

Yeah I think so too, because we actually see ||a Wyrm in Silksong and it's pretty weak||

[red hollow]

Lore question.
So the fleas are their own species, and the non-speaking ones are the younglings? A different sub-species?

And what is the deal with bellway anyway? At some point people of pharloom decide to just build metric ton of bells and fill their tunnels with it? For travel?

[ashen ore]

HUH

[nimble vault]

omg give me details please, I've gotten all the endings but I keep missing stuff omg omg

[grim onyx]

Nono, sorry

[lime nova]

Oh!~ There's coral! Coral are colonial animals most closely related to jellyfish and anemones

[deep elk]

She does have some lore significance.

[grim onyx]

it was a vyrm

[deep elk]

It was?

[silver spire]

wait what wherereererererererererere

[rain spindle]

Im curious about something

[deep elk]

vyrm or wyrm?

[nimble vault]

where do you find it

[ashen ore]

The hell is a vyrm

[tiny socket]

Isn’t it a worm?

[rain spindle]

In silksong we have things like the mask maker only being sane when he doesnt wear the mask and you needing to follow the herald to listen to his word

[tiny socket]

The lightning tube thing

[rain spindle]

But the knight did that anwyay

Did the knight knew

[silver spire]

theres another mask maker in skong

[lime nova]

It's possible that, like the radiance, root beings create spawn that are like them. Maybe Greyroot was born from the White Lady or another root higher being

[grim onyx]

yeah yeah mb

[silver spire]

i wonder how theyre related

[grim onyx]

It's a "vyrm"

[lime nova]

They have the same job

[rain spindle]

Mask makers are likely a caste from ancient civilization

[tiny socket]

Does greyroot infect hornet or is it the twisted bud

[lime nova]

Hmmmmmmm

[rain spindle]

Anyway

[lime nova]

Greyroot puts the bud in Hornet

[silver spire]

!!!! what

[rain spindle]

I think the knight was way more aware than we give them credit for

[tiny socket]

Right but is the bud the source of the curse, or does greyroot become the bud for rebirth

[grim onyx]

I think Greyroot dies (in like, the sense she ISN'T the bud)

[nimble vault]

I think the bud is the source, I think greyroot dies. Kind of similar to how grimm works
Also sorry if I spoil anyone idk what is and isn't meant to be spoilered

creating a new child which restarts the cycle

[tiny socket]

I thought the ritual was to rebirth greyroot in a new form, and hornet was used as the host cause of her silk stuff

What was left behind seems to just be a husk

[grim onyx]

I mean it sounds like that but then why do the greyroot and the kid co-exist?

Oh wait, maybe the kid is just "another part of the root"

[tiny socket]

I thought the child was sacrificed for the ritual

I’ll need to finish the curse ending before I make any conclusions

[silk dirge]

thats the entire point of sotv i think

[lucid pasture]

in hornets eyes Lace fits his place quite a bit for a variety of reasons. but id say even Hornet herself fits more as a parallel to him than phantom tbh, the only reason i see for putting phantom there is that lace and them are siblings but like idk

[grim onyx]

Yeah you probably should. It kinda clarifies a little bit.

[nimble vault]

sorry what does sotv stand for

[grim onyx]

The true ending for ss i think

[worthy kettle]

who created the citadel?

[grim onyx]

||Sister of the void||

[nimble vault]

ohhh okay that makes sense

[rain spindle]

I mean about the world

[lucid pasture]

me

[rain spindle]

They likely knew about the mask maker and thr herald

[vernal idol]

Lore question regarding the ||Snail Shamans||. So, we know that one is ||the Caretaker|| and the other is ||the Chapel Maiden||, but do we ever encounter the third one before in any capacity? I don't recall it.

[worthy kettle]

who really made it

[limber anvil]

Yes

[grim onyx]

The ||Uncle in a secret tunnel from Bellhart||, isn't it?

[worthy kettle]

also i recall for some quests if you talk to pavo he'll direct you to the uncle snail who will give you advice such as with the parasite quest

[limber anvil]

They are the one living in the can that calls you a slave under bellhart

[vernal idol]

Oh, I don't remember him, but it's cool that we do!

[vernal idol]

Ah, now I remember!

[grim onyx]

Yeah I mean, it's VERY hidden so you can easily miss him. But it is possible, yeah

[limber anvil]

That is the giant one you get the bell soul from them

[worthy kettle]

Does anyone know who made the Citadel? Grand Mother Silk, the Weavers, or someone else?

[sterile sigil]

I believe it was mentioned it existed before grand mother silk but I could be mistaken

[grim onyx]

Yeah I recall something about higher beings or gods. Could be wrong though

[vernal idol]

Nah, I remember that dude calling me a slave, but since I didn't interact with him anymore, it didn't register that he was ||a Snail Shaman||. Even the ||Chapel Maiden|| took me a while to connect the dots 😅😂

[nimble vault]

I wish I could provide an answer but the lore of the weavers honestly has me baffled still

[silver spire]

50 hours in and theres still been no worse boss than savage beastfly 2

[silk dirge]

the weavers

[jaunty elm]

ive just beaten the red guy, does this imply ||the chorus is made up of a bunch of bug souls?||

[grim onyx]

There is. I believe someone did Savage beastfly 2 in act 3. Needless to say why that fight would be HELL

[silk dirge]

that doesnt seem possible to me

dont you need to do that quest for act 3

[whole hawk]

Oh man those ACMI pics are driving me crazy

[worthy kettle]

someone already made a real map? wow

[grim onyx]

I thought so too, but I looked it up and there's indeed, someone who did it somehow. There's even reddit posts about it.

[spark valve]

the weavers

[whole hawk]

Absolute nutso information coming out. What do you mean lifeblood spire?

[old grotto]

Regarding ||Groal the Great|| He obviously got ||soul power from the Seekers Soul|| but who did the soul belong to?

[spark valve]

the shaman who went to bilewater trying to form an alliance

[old grotto]

An alliance for what?

[spark valve]

resisting the citadel

[lean temple]

Bell Hermit

[sage heart]

Also with sherma and other pilgrims….what exactly is this pilgrimage theyre on?

[vernal idol]

Yeah, I remembered, thanks! 😁

[vital goblet]

it may just be cut content, but I've been hoping for a lifeblood themed dlc, and the idea keeps getting shot down because lifeblood isn't malicious. Perhaps my dream will still become a reality

[spark valve]

ring the songshrines, advance to the citadel, learn the melodies and worship before gms, get inducted into the citadel caste

[sage heart]

Ah

[quartz salmon]

Is there somewhere we can see all these pictures

[worthy kettle]

If I recall the lore correctly
Grand Mother Silk makes Weavers who then make the Citadel
But the Weavers don't really want Grand Mother Silk's control over them and the citadel
leading to restraining her with a slumber, and developing music culture
So then silk technology develops but Grand Mother Silk can take advantage of the backdoor and screw up the Citadel and force people to do her will
So the weavers are now trying to resist Mother Silk, or flee from her
Then, Hornet is born, word spreads and Grand Mother Silk wants Hornet and captures her

My question is, what were the capabilities of Grand Mother Silk? How was she able to do the haunting and get word of the outside world if she's in a slumber? and why IS there a pilgrimage to pharloom?

[spark valve]

she's able to do the haunting because citadel caste are injecting themselves with silk

[grim onyx]

I think Grand Mother Silk adopts them. Idk if she creates the Weavers

[spark valve]

that's also not the sequence of events

[whole hawk]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Silksong/comments/1njunsj/silksong_map_through_the_years_acmi_gameworlds/?cache-bust=1758165558184

[quartz salmon]

Thank you!

[worthy kettle]

may i ask for your education

[spark valve]

pharloom exists and shit is fine
grand mother silk shows up and creates the weavers as her 'daughters'
weavers decide they don't really like the situation, some of them flee. GMS then makes Lace and Phantom as new daughters.
Remaining weavers trap her and put her to sleep, building the citadel to keep her that way
weavers start to fade away, presumably because they have trouble reproducing
Citadel caste takes over, seizing power from weavers and continuing to using the citadel's song to keep the mother silk asleep while not entirely aware of what they're doing
citadel bugs eventually start using silk to attempt to attain immortality by surgically implanting it in their shells, eventually causing many of their minds to succumb to the grand mother silk, leading to the citadel being silenced.
She starts waking up, causing the haunting to take over pharloom at large, and sends hunting parties out to track down the descendants of weavers who fled including hornet, to gather their silk. This is probably to sustain Lace, who requires a large amount of silk to stay alive
Hornet is captured and brought to Pharloom, but Lace breaks her out because Lace is a rebellious little shit who wants hornet to fuck shit up so she has a chance to get back at her mom

[silver spire]

its a good thing that i figured out ads despawn if i get far enough away

[nimble vault]

I thought she did, I don't remember where but there was a cutscene of a bug being struck by a strand of silk and becoming a weaver. Might have been from one of the silk hearts?

[silver spire]

wait... LACE BROKE THE SEAL?!?!

[sage heart]

Has anyone not done sherma’s wish before going into act 3

[spark valve]

seems to have

[silver spire]

what's the evidence

[spark valve]

she's seen directing the things that broke the seal and we know her objective is among other things to prevent gms from claiming hornet's power

[grim onyx]

I think it's from the first Sinner. In that same cutscene she says that GMS said they were LIKE her children and that she lied. That's why I assumed she adopted them but she could have made them as well.

[silver spire]

what are the things that broke the seals though

they look like lumaflies to me, so im not sure how they broke it

[spark valve]

she also knows hornet fell from the cage so she probably saw it

[worthy kettle]

sherma's wish is required for act 3

[sage heart]

Ahhh

[spark valve]

they're not really elaborated on

[worthy kettle]

why are Lace's little white butterfly things in the Mist?
Is it the Phantoms?

[spark valve]

either they're phantom's or lace is guiding hornet to the citadel

[silver spire]

thats true

and what even are they

[nimble vault]

adpotion isn't a bad way to look at it. They did exist before GMS but to be a weaver GMS had to make them that way. I think without GMS the wouldn't be considered weavers

[grim onyx]

Might be Phantom's because they only react to song

[worthy kettle]

They only react to the Silksong 👀

[silver spire]

and what are the wisps

the mist in and of itself seems to be a strange place, and we're given no explanation as to how phantom is able to cause it

to my knowledge at least

[worthy kettle]

I think the explanation is that the Organ the Phantom jams out on is causing the mist
But I dont know why she's jamming though

[coral wren]

The last part of lost lace sounds kinda simaler to sealed vessel phase 2

[grim onyx]

huh, it's interesting how Coral Tower's area seems to be called "Red Coral Gorge" and how Team Cherry finished Pharloom's map last month lol

[silver spire]

also i just had one of the biggest lore dumps in game today from ||red memory|| lol, that sh was PEAK

[worthy kettle]

They should make a DLC adding in the cut content and expanding each of the 3 powerful heart beings
More Coral, more Ants and more Shellwood Pro Max

[grim onyx]

Yeah, ||smol Hornet is so cuteeee and we got some Herrah and Vespa scenes!!!||

[coral wren]

Also now that its done with, im kinda glad that the final boss is unfair

It made beating it very very satisfying

And thematically i guess it fits

[silk dirge]

wait PHARLOOM WAS PLANNED OUT AS EARLY AS 2017???

[coral wren]

Yes

[silk dirge]

i knew hornet dlc was always planned to not just be in hallownest

[grim onyx]

It wasn't that unfair though.

[silk dirge]

but thats wild

[coral wren]

Idk phase 3 you can't see shit and too many moves overlap

[worthy kettle]

I personally think Karmelitta is harder, and once you study you'll see opportunities for damage and healing very evidently, as well as learning how to manipulate the AI

[silk dirge]

they probably originally planned you go explore this small new kingdom and probably 3 queens gets involved in there somehow

[grim onyx]

Yeah, and in those maps you can clearly see why it was changed from dlc to full game

[coral wren]

Its doable but very unfair

[silk dirge]

im 100% sure 3 queens was always just planned for hornet dlc

[white ruin]

imagine we get pantheon of pharloom then they introduce duo beastflys in the lava arena that ought to be fun

[silver spire]

karmelitta was h*ll on earth for me

the only reason i was able to beat it was because shell shards dont get used in memory battles

[silk dirge]

like i dont think there should even be a doubt thats what team cherry was always planning

[worthy kettle]

same bro
EASILY my hardest boss
30 tries while lost lace was my 2nd hardest at like around 12

[grim onyx]

I mean she is the Princess of 3 queens after all so... it would've been funny to fight 3 queens as her lol

[silver spire]

so i could just spam all my cogflies in the last phase

and zap her in the meantime

[coral wren]

Yeah karmel had too much hp to be immune to half your attacks

[worthy kettle]

the freakin buzzsaw attack yo 🥲

[silver spire]

i just dont like how void is like bilewater in that it takes away your silk

[silk dirge]

ok the coral area was removed in 2021

damn shits been gone for a while

[coral wren]

True
I felt like I never had enough silk against lost lace

[silk dirge]

it makes sense since blasted steps appeared in the xbox trailer but not the coral area

[grim onyx]

Apparently there's an interview where they explain between lines why it was removed

[silk dirge]

interesting

can you link it or smth

[coral wren]

I used the druid eye and that helped significantly

[quartz salmon]

I think the dlc can either take the direction of expanding elegy of the deep and letting us explore more in memories

Or it can re-add the bay area from which you take a boat to who knows where

OR add the Steel Assasins back in

[grim onyx]

sure: https://www.acmi.net.au/stories-and-ideas/from-ludum-dare-to-pharloom/

[worthy kettle]

Do we think Coral Caves might be the first DLC?

[silk dirge]

also wait wtf team cherry was PLANNING PHARLOOM BEFORE HK RELEASED??

thats actually wild

[grim onyx]

Yeah that's just how they work lol

[silk dirge]

that means silksong has literally almost been in development for a decade

[sacred heath]

maybe, maybe not
if it is it’ll likely be linked to that one barnacle bay area
since that got surprisingly far into development before it was scrapped
had a map icon and everything

[coral wren]

Tbf ive been like "developing" a game in my head that has split timeline and prequels

Even though im probably never gonna actually make this

[silk dirge]

relatable

[quartz salmon]

I've been rotating an apple in my head

[weary pier]

So before you fight Fourth Chorus, they have like a long pin piercing their neck. Who could have placed it there?

[spark valve]

seamstress

[silk dirge]

i never noticed that

thats crazy attention to detail

honestly i feel like team cherry spent like a full month thinking of and implementing every possible interaction for the parasite

bc theres a fuck ton

[grim onyx]

I mean they have "ambitious plans" for post launch contente. I can easily see them making an update like "lifeblood" where they rebalance things, but also add cut content that didn't make it one way or another but idk

[silk dirge]

i hope we get steel city dlc

[grim onyx]

DIdn't they say that the last year alone was like just polish?

[opal pond]

Just want to get these thoughts out bc its been on my mind since finishing true ending. But I dont think hornet and thk interacted much if at all. Hornet's memory of her mother is hazy, and considering we know she was raised by the white lady, I think its fair to assume its because herrah went into her dream sleep. Meaning thk would have been sealed off.

After playing hollow knight, I kinda took for granted that hornet and thk might have known each other, especially when looking for fanfics to read, because I assumed they were similar in age and would have interacted more. But I think its quite the opposite.

If we take that the pale king grew some kind of affection for thk, he was probably too wrapped up in grief after sealing, and the white lady was the one to take delight in being able to love a child.

Some of this is definitely more speculation but point is, I dont think hornet and thk personally knew each other. Hornet definitely knew who thk was but not the other way around. And I think the godhome endings in hk where thk emerges and hornet stands ready to fight is more indicative that hornet and thk have no idea what to expect of each other.

So yeah many thoughts but im still having a lot of fun wrapping my head around true ending

[abstract nova]

im curious from a lore standpoint, so lace is obviouslly supposed to be SS “hornet”. obviously there are things that make lace overall more unique, but overall do you guys think lace was represented better than how hornet was represented in HK?

[grim onyx]

Oh yeah. She's equally if not a more complex character than Hornet that hides a lot more than it seems at first sight. Which makes her a really good character.

[abstract nova]

i think my favorite lace moment was her defeat dialouge after the 2nd lace fight

lace talking down about herself because she was made entirely of silk, saying she isnt “alive”. I really love how hornet stops her because she knows what happens when someone doesn’t count their life as valuable (the hollow knight)

although one thing i am confused about

how was lace able to talk to hornet above the void when in the abyss?

was that a vision?

[quartz salmon]

my guess is that the Steel city is where the "masters" and all the steel bugs come from

so id really like for tc to take us there and resolve all the mysteries around that

[raven condor]

HK mask maker is goated, SilkSongs is mid. Why does the hollowknight one have the luxury of three interchangeable mask compared to the pitiful one in SilkSong

[silk dirge]

bc pharloom

[craggy smelt]

i think it's more likely they send the 'Steel Assassins' to us - I would be overjoyed to see the City of Steel, but what would that even look like in-game
would it get its own map, separate from Pharloom? Would it be a citadel-sized area with lots of sub-areas?
it just seems like such a huge idea

[quartz salmon]

they did say they had "ambitious" plans

[craggy smelt]

because delivering that lacquer to him is too hard, he's got fewer masks made, none to spare

[raven condor]

Actually makes sense

[sacred heath]

so like
are the mask makers a species or a group of bugs
important distinction

[raven condor]

Each mask they own has a break incase of lore emergency label stamped on the inside

[craggy smelt]

they seem like a group - there are at least two, and they don't look like the same species

[quartz salmon]

what i would love to see the most is them sending the assassins to pharloom to hunt hornet, so now she has a reason to confront them, then she takes a boat from the bay area and reaches the city (which doesnt have to be anything mindblowing in terms of scale but knowing tc theyd go the extra mile)

[raven condor]

They seem to be unaware of each other, however they do seem to change when exposed to so many different masks, thus the swirling eyes

[craggy smelt]

I approve of anything that includes introducing barnacle bay, for any reason

[sacred heath]

i like the idea of the assassins showing up after act 3 is complete and Pharloom is rebuilding

[craggy smelt]

also yeah, it makes sense that the assassins would come to us first whatever the case
Steel Masters don't like unsanction use of Void

[sacred heath]

they pop up and start wrecking shit in order to find Hornet
and she is none too pleased with them trashing the kingdom she just saved

[sacred heath]

actually that’s a perfect way to tie that in
the masters hear about the Void Nuke
and send the assassins over to tell pharloom to knock that shit off

[craggy smelt]

there might even be an angle like 'this whole kingdom was touched by the Void, everyone has to die'
the scope of it could be huge...

[quartz salmon]

yeah those are exactly my thoughts

[kind cedar]

is there any information known about whether or not silksong takes place after the true ending or after the void ending in when u beat the pantheon and the sealed vessel is still alive?
i just hope the vessel is alive, i think its very precious 🥺

[sacred heath]

hornet and sharpe interaction that goes something like
“WE’RE HERE TO KILL YOU!!!!…”
“ok lol lmao”
“…and also everyone else here.”
“I will burn your city to the ground”

[craggy smelt]

its one of those two - kind've ambiguous which one

[kind cedar]

i just read up and u guys were kinda talking about it lol

yes void nuke boom

[sacred heath]

hollow being alive gives the opportunity for TC to do some very funny stuff with them

[neat sandal]

what. hollownest tycoon game?

[kind cedar]

i really quite hope he is we could see him in dlc or if they plan another game in the future itd def be about it

[sacred heath]

no but i like the way that you think

[sacred heath]

they try to make a THK expansion for Silksong and it ends up becoming its own game again

[craggy smelt]

Hollow Knight comes riding into Pharloom on the Old Stag
"Hornet, you need to come with me right away. We have to find Grimm."
TO BE CONTINUED

[sacred heath]

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-raccoon-absolute-cinema-gif-17862327649353748812

[kind cedar]

also mister mushroom lowkey is a god and def gonna be important at some point in these series

bros very sus

[craggy smelt]

other fungis might be sus
but mister mushroom readjusts

[sacred heath]

hollow has a very interesting spot in the skong lore if they’re actually alive right now
afaik they’d be hornet’s last living family since gms is cooked, Hornet took care of all the other weavers, and the knight is… well the knight is technically alive but we don’t talk about that.

[stray fog]

Which variant of embrace the void is cannon?

I think the delicate flower one is cannon because if hallownest was destroyed by the shade lord, hornet would have known that in silksong

[static trellis]

I fully believe the next HK game, unless they do DLC set after the story, will have Hornet. ||Mr. Mushroom mentions that he feels Hornet’s actions may summon him again in the future before leaving.|| I really hope this is the case as I would want to see more of Hornet as a player character in future games. Maybe even doing a full Metroid thing and making her the main playable character for the foreseeable future

[lucid pasture]

must have been turned into wormways

doenst seem too crazy to me

[tiny socket]

In sotv, the ||knight is void given form rather than void given mind||, which I took as it being the dream no more ending being canon

[silk dirge]

yall want to have the snail shaman retcon discussion now that we know team cherry was planning for some sort of void cult(likely snail shamans) before hk released

[stray fog]

But we see the shade lord in that ending

[deep elk]

What's the shaman retcon discussion?

[silk dirge]

(i do not wish to have that discussion again)

[static trellis]

||Shade Lord has an appearance within the SS true ending. A small glimpse of him, implying one of the Godhome endings is canon||

[silk dirge]

i dont have the energy for it rn

[deep elk]

Fair enough :3

[rain spindle]

https://x.com/zhornetzzz/status/1968446722863935636?t=hEzitUzvYnPv2MS2CzpMag&s=19

Hornet SILKSONG SPOILERS (@zhornetzzz)

THE PARASITE QUESTLINE IS LITERALLY AN ALLEGORY FOR ABORTION OH MY GOD

X · Sep 17, 2025, 10:47 PM

Why do people think twisted bud is the parasite

[static trellis]

What?

[rain spindle]

Poor fella

[tiny socket]

Ah, I should rewatch the cutscene

[stray fog]

According to the cages in the cradle, the weavers faced extinction in every kingdom that they went to

How did that happen?

[deep elk]

It was more so for that bug no?

[deep elk]

Weavers fucked around and found out.

[lucid pasture]

silk persecution went crazy

[rain spindle]

Twisted bug was a sacrifice for hornet to get cursed

[deep elk]

Deepnest has a huge influence from Weavers no?

[deep elk]

I still don't understand that storyline perfectly.

[lucid pasture]

yes

[lucid pasture]

no one does

[stray fog]

Also, were the weavers studying void given form according to the weavenest in the abyss

[rain spindle]

Twisted Bug's sacrifice allowed the root that greyroot was trying to invoke be summoned. And then she cursed hornet with it

[deep elk]

They also didn't let a tramway to be built. Yet a stag station was.

[deep elk]

Fair lol

[deep elk]

I see.
That's more than what I understood.

I need to do a second playthrough.
There's also things I got locked out of coz of act 3. 😭

[silk dirge]

also i am illiterate team cherry was not planning pharloom before hk released my eyes saw "2018" as "2016"

[woven arrow]

Do we know how verdania fell? From what i understood so far they were defeated by the pale monarch and one of the princes were captured and made into the cogwork dancers. Is there any actual closure to their story?

[deep elk]

Oh. I see. Yea I haven't been here as much so I missed it. Mostly coz I was specifically avoiding this channel since I only got true ending two days ago. Or was it yesterday? I think yesterday, yea.

[silk dirge]

and then shit like this happens and messes all the discussion up

[stray fog]

Are the snail shamans a universal thing in all kingdoms or just the 2 kingdoms that we see

[lucid pasture]

honestly not really what we can know is that citadel fucked most of the lands by its side. the prince was not exactly "captured" though, he offered himself to make peace with citadel, he was never seen again the other prince went crazy and verdania slowly decayed

[silk dirge]

its not like the snail shamans using void was a recent thing this has been basically planned from the start if this is what this map actually means

[golden herald]

homphobic citadel

[deep elk]

What exactly is Verdania lore?

[silk dirge]

i guess this is probably well explained by thishttps://media.discordapp.net/attachments/924457324800798731/1417701172487262320/image.png?ex=68ccc21b&is=68cb709b&hm=8b404f2538fa84347d16940664385dce036c2010278a91674344e866d5a9e64d&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

snail shamans are mysterious and definitely an ambiguity we dont know shit about

[dapper willow]

My take on this that it could be a retcon but it could also be explained by the timeskip
Like they had a lot of time to learn about the void and get obsessed by it

[deep elk]

We should make up completely irrelevant and absurd headcanons about Snail Shaman. 🗣️

[craggy smelt]

I think the snail shaman thing can be readily accomodated
the crossroads shaman doesn't recognize the Abyss Shriek because it was a spell from the Ancient Civilization
the snail shaman (and Steel clan) rituals bring the Void to them, they may not have gone to the Abyss or the AC
there was also always the question of why some Hallownest snails burst into dark energy that upgraded the Knight's spells with Void
in light of the new lore that shows snails can use Soul to summon the Void, I imagine that's what was always going on - using the last of their own Soul to call the Void, which empowers TK

[minor raptor]

helloooo chudlings

[deep elk]

Guys, do yuo think Snail Shamans do it wax on or wax off.

[dapper willow]

getting info straight from the source

[minor raptor]

who up silkin they song

[deep elk]

What is chudlings 😭

[silk dirge]

the people arguing this shit were telling me to read so i read

[woven arrow]

Ah thats tragic, i hope we get more lore in the future. I feel like one of the green prince being depressed and completely giving up on his kingdom just because his other half decided to make a sacrifice would be a bit shallow? Idk theres gotta be more right

[dapper willow]

people who put lace in their pfp should really just bite the bullet and be as haughty as her

[minor raptor]

i really thought you were telling me to Die for like 80% of this message 😭

[dapper willow]

NOOOO hahaha
Because I actually love lace lol
She is such a fun character

[minor raptor]

i love lace so much she is my baby

just a lil Gobby

[lucid pasture]

idk its hard to say, from what we know its kinda hwat happened though. but its more like citadel didnt really uphold their part of the treat from what we know and they just went to fuck verdania anyway and green prince was too depressed to deal with that in a functional way so verdania just fell, i think

[minor raptor]

a stupid little baby

drooling and sucking on her thumb

[woven arrow]

Makes the most sense, grand mother silk does NOT care about these poor bugs

[neat sandal]

GMS was sleeping. she of course does not care

[lucid pasture]

wouldnt say she was sleeping with how Hornet says it was a pale being fault imho

i already said this many times but yeah

THO tbh

reading the quote again it kinda doesnt necessarily imply a direct causation

[neat sandal]

.[Hornet]:A stunning sight. Unique. All gone... Lost to the pale monarch... and the system to keep her caged.
Caretaker comment when you have his heart

[lucid pasture]

oh wtf

thats kinda huge

[lucid pasture]

i think it does imply not necessarily a full on influence from GMS but moreso a conjunction of things

[dapper willow]

The lore

THE LORE
we knew it

it was the citadel all along
And Grandma was only tangentially related

this is so sad

dark souls lore be like:

[twin dragon]

Weavers did truly cook up some wicked shit

[lime nova]

When you first show up here there's silk butterflies, which I think lace controls. What does this mean??

[lucid pasture]

i dont think lace controls all butterflies in the world lol

but at the same time there are many of those butterflies kinda guiding hornet thorough the game which is kinda suspect

[dapper willow]

lace is stalking her future mom

[dapper willow]

thats true also

[lime nova]

When you first encounter her she's conducting them around with her pin, and the second she turns around they fly away

Also she immediately references your cage which is the last time a butterfly was seen

[lucid pasture]

i mean yea she does control some, but i dont think she is controlling all of them

like they are used as lanterns i dont think thats lace involvement for example

[reef cloud]

she’s singing and they listen kinda like the needolin in the mist

[lime nova]

Interesting interpretation

[lucid pasture]

we will know what is being cooked someday

maybe

[scenic stirrup]

Dawg i just beat and got the true ending

So u mean to tell me i killed the green prince for nothing 😭

Since hornet couldve just asked the knight to help her

Seeing the knight tho made me really really happy

[reef cloud]

lmao reveal was hype af

don’t think hornet and knight exactly on talkin terms tho

depends wha she was doing in hallownest after the ending ig

[scenic stirrup]

I kinda thought the final boss would've been the knight himself

Him being shade lord and all

But damn not even being a god herself the final boss kicked my ass

[reef cloud]

tbf idk if he is shade lord or part of shade lord

like it might be a hive mind of the sacrificed kids

[timber pond]

Shade lord / The knight Turned out to be a Chill dude.

"the masters" seem like real antagonists

[reef cloud]

type shi

[scenic stirrup]

Im dumb i thought that the knight was doing all the infecting himself but its just gradnmother silk still having a connection to pharloom

Via her threads

The knight didn't do anything wrong

Very sad abt garmond tho

[marble tartan]

So is dream no more or godhome the cannon ending

[timber pond]

The Steel Soul quest implies that Pharloom Will Face some kind of Collective martial Judgment though

So theres that

[craggy smelt]

can't wait~!

Steel Sanction

[craggy smelt]

not sure - it's one of the two though
kind've ambiguous

[scenic stirrup]

Do u think the dlc is something they have in the tank

Or we'll have to wait a while

[lofty otter]

[craggy smelt]

i think there's a lot of stuff they had ready that we didn't see in-game
Barnacle Bay and Coral Forest area looked pretty good, but they aren't in-game
depends on how much they want to add

but personally, I wouldn't expect any word of DLC until next year...

[timber pond]

Some minor things might be added sooner. But things they are teasing might be way latter.

[reef cloud]

cuz shade lord is shown you’d assume godhome

but mayb they join shade lord anyway when they join the void

depends whether you believe shade lord only exists cuz of attunement ig

[lofty otter]

Couldn’t TK have handled the GMS situation on his own

[craggy smelt]

maybe, if they cared to

[scenic stirrup]

I think itd be cool if we could fight the old bosses with hornets moveset

[lofty otter]

How tho

You’d need to make like a plot line of a weaver escaping pharloom and get them all haunted cus just have godhome be here too seems kinda lazy

[scenic stirrup]

Just mod hornet into the og game

[craggy smelt]

yea, i think fan mods will take care of putting old bosses into silksong

[scenic stirrup]

Grimm tho

I dont mind fighting him again fr

[lofty otter]

Can’t wait to beat the living poop out of pure vessel

[whole hawk]

Give me that Lifeblood DLC

[lofty otter]

Grimm would vibe with trobbio

Is trobbio a confirmed Grimm troupe nightmare heart person

Or does he just like fireworks

[molten night]

Also the Little ladybug that challenges you to hit the other bug with kunais

Looks like It could be a grimm troupe

[lofty otter]

Mhm

[runic musk]

What does happen to them in act 3 anyway do they just leave or something

[edgy stone]

Oh ive not seen this yet

[woven arrow]

WHERE IS HUNTRESS

Her eggs are cracked open? Or theyre smashed idk

[molten night]

Probably, the room Is all destroyed and they aren't there

[lofty otter]

Having a dlc where you have to deal with the banished grim troupe would be awesome

[molten night]

Bottom left area of putrified ducts

[woven arrow]

The karaks look really similar to skarrs ngl

[woven arrow]

No i meant in act 3

Her eggs are all cracked open

I hope they didnt eat her up

[lofty otter]

Dead prolly

[molten night]

Oh alr, i didn't know She moved

[molten night]

😭

Could be tbh

[reef cloud]

average ‘i want to ascend’ guy causing a fate worse than death for himself

[molten night]

Since they were talking abt It, did you do the quest?

[edgy stone]

Uhhhh

Her corpse is there

They literally ate her inside out

[lofty otter]

[molten night]

What changes if you do the quest before or not?

Like

[dapper willow]

yooo she can set up a barrier
so cool

[molten night]

The only purpose of her quest was for her children not to eat her up

[woven arrow]

Theres just a bunch of cracked eggshells for me

[reef cloud]

got master willem vibes

tbf bloodborne was an obvious inspiration for the game

[dapper willow]

i didn't see her corpse at all

[molten night]

Maybe if you do her quest you Just find cracked eggs while if you don't you also find her dead corpse?

Could be

[woven arrow]

Probably she escaped

[dapper willow]

rrrrreaper

I used reaper to beat Grandma up
Reaping her silk for myself

[edgy stone]

Nope

[dapper willow]

lil baby

[reef cloud]

the whole slab kidnap asw

[edgy stone]

Dont finish her quest before act 3 and it happens apparently

[reef cloud]

so sad i missed it tho

[dapper willow]

So its confirmed she survives if you do her quest

[edgy stone]

I wonder if huntress had more and was just stripped of like journal stuff due to nuu being created

[molten night]

Yooo

[lofty otter]

The crest is also goated

[molten night]

Who Is he

What does he say

[edgy stone]

Shes an awfully small character to be one revealed in the riddles

[lofty otter]

Reaper crest might be the most well rounded in the games

[edgy stone]

Runt, he gives you the same quest as his mother

He wants the organs so he can grow big like the rest of his litter

[molten night]

Did you do the quest her mother gave you in this save?

[edgy stone]

Nope

[molten night]

Alt

Alr, that's why you found her dead ig

[fair hull]

https://youtu.be/yh3_ps50yrg?t=62

[lucid pasture]

oh thats cool

not that she died, but that doing the quest changes that

[reef cloud]

might be a lotta diff dialogue for skipping wishes then

gotta let everyone die for the lore

[dapper willow]

the deepest of secrets require the deepest of pains

[lucid pasture]

she disappeared so i assumed they ate her lol but apparently she is alive! and theres an actual way that she dies

[dapper willow]

I was right!!

[lucid pasture]

true..

[stray fog]

I don't understand the white lady's dialogue in the red memory

Did she know that Hornet would need an everbloom in the future?

[craggy smelt]

I think when the dialogue boxes change, that's actually her talking to Hornet, in the present
talking through the dream because of, like, god powers
and she helps Hornet pull the Everbloom out of her memories and into reality

[hushed viper]

Wait i just realised how did Mrs Silksong snapped the big fly guy's neck

[narrow glacier]

Used it to beat Lost Lace.

[craggy smelt]

with her arms

[hushed viper]

That implies they have spines do bugs in pharloom have spines?

[craggy smelt]

yeah, bugs have bones in holloworld

(there's bones all over the place)

[hushed viper]

Yea fossilized shell

As in their carapace, but necks?

Like vertebrates??

[lucid pasture]

imo its just in the past, its just that the everbloom kinda is an important flower in general idk

it just meant that white lady knew of its importance back then

but it could be what you said too tbf idk

[craggy smelt]

yeah, they got bones in there
you can see them when some bugs get blasted apart in the first game
got them buggy bones

[craggy smelt]

I think it starts off as a memory or something that happened in the past, a conversation they had when Hornet saw the Everbloom
it's the memory Hornet is after
but it seems like WL starts actually talking to present Hornet, when Hornet says that she has new perspective on all the stuff the pale beings did

[lucid pasture]

thats true actually i think i kinda do think the same im just stupid

[craggy smelt]

well, if we think the same, then we're both stupid!

[lucid pasture]

i love that scene but i dont remember how exactly it goes on now lol

[narrow glacier]

Yeah Pale Lady eplicity starts talking to present Hornet in the scene

Probably one of her pale powers

Also. I want that Pale Princess Knight Hornet Skin

I wonder if she fought at the battle of the black wyrm

[lucid pasture]

BUT i think hornet answering her in the end was about the present. Idk if i would say its exactly white lady actuallt talking or simply some enactment in hornets mind though but idt it really matters

that scene is some kingdom hearts shit tbh and i love it

[craggy smelt]

lol shit haven't thought about that in a while

Lost Lace is totally a heartless

[lucid pasture]

fr

you get it

[stray fog]

Did a wyrm rule over pharloom

[crisp sonnet]

Why would it have

[stray fog]

Because its mentioned in the 3 hearts part of act 3 that there was a time before grandmother silk

[crisp sonnet]

And there being Earth before gms means that there was a wyrm?

[stray fog]

I just thought that wyrms generally rule kingdoms

[crisp sonnet]

Fair enough

Imo citadel is kinda wyrmy architecture

Pharloom is alt Hallownest from another timeline which is colliding with HK's because of Zote's overwhelming power

Hence the similarities, differences, Hornet jumping from one to another, and it resolves inconsistencies

[mossy jungle]

So guys

What even is grand mother silk?

Is it an ascended weaver or a construct of their making?

And has it been in power ever since weaver rule of pharloom or was her ascent to power (the one first sinner opposed to) provoked herrah’s weavers to flee?

[rugged sigil]

i think its just another one of the pale beings and i think its stated somewhere that gms turned pharlids into the weavers

[mossy jungle]

Ok, so it predates everything except the old hearts

[lucid pasture]

aint it more likely wyrm architeture (hallownest) as we know was influenced by the weavers that went there

[mossy jungle]

But then: what prompted the switch from weavers to normal bugs? Weaver betrayal? First sinner?

[crisp sonnet]

Gms made the weavers
Gms is silk basically is my understanding
The weavers betrayed her and left

Wow that was a delayed message send my network is not ok

[rugged sigil]

according to the wiki the first sinners sin was finding out the pharlid thing not sure where that info came from though

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/First_Sinner

[lucid pasture]

I dont think theres anything that says that, that must be just a theory

[crisp sonnet]

I would doubt it but maybe? The pale king had nothing to do with the wravers and it was pretty much his kingdom and therefore architecture

[mossy jungle]

Woah, where did that come from

[stray fog]

What was the sin listed on the first sinner's cage?

[crisp sonnet]

Apostasy

Questioning religion

[rugged sigil]

no clue

[crisp sonnet]

Gms wants everybody to worship her and unite, so naturally questioning that is not good for your health

Isn't this basically copying the idea of the radiance?

[mossy jungle]

That should be the answer to the question itself then

[craggy smelt]

there's a lot of parallels with the Radiance
they even look and fight in a lot of similar ways

[crisp sonnet]

I mean, the story is like the exact same almost

Different names, same thing

[mossy jungle]

Nah, radiance is moved out of malice from years of being forgotten, then imprisoned: it seeks to destroy hallownest

Also radiance didn’t propose inmortality to anyone

[crisp sonnet]

Still they both just want to be remembered and worshipped by all

[mossy jungle]

And didn’t have a daughter

And didn’t hunt vessels

[crisp sonnet]

Those are minor things compared to their overarching goals

[lucid pasture]

considering first sinner needolin phrases tho it doesnt seem too far fetched actually? She thinks "cursed by silk" "cursed to know". sounds reasonable to go into the idea that she gets angry at GMS because of that

[mossy jungle]

I would say that is more of an overarching theme of all higher beings: you can see that also in grimm

[rugged sigil]

gms was sealed for a bit before the story started right (i assume by weavers?)

[crisp sonnet]

I forgot what the deal with Grimm was

Isn't he just there being evil

[stray fog]

I thought she put herself in a cocoon

[rugged sigil]

keeping the nightmare heart alive or smth

[crisp sonnet]

Perhaps to recover from the betrayal

[narrow glacier]

I’m seeing a theme with these goddesses

[dapper willow]

calling grimm evil is a bit of an exageration
he is more neutral than anything

[stray fog]

Bro just wants to dance

[crisp sonnet]

Sir his name is Nightmare King

He is not a good dude

[mossy jungle]

Come on: he seeks to reamin immortal via the ritual, hence to be remembered

[narrow glacier]

To be fair the literal Dream Queen ain’t too good either

[crisp sonnet]

Some might call him unnecessarily hostile and rude in P5

[lucid pasture]

i thoufht it would make it too stupid that weavers tried to get revenge at GMS because of this but actually this would fit the crime of apostasy for first sinner quite a bit now that i think about it too. maybe these people were cooking

[rugged sigil]

so gms hunting weavers might be for revenge aswell as just needing silk for lace and controlling people

[crisp sonnet]

I would not be shocked if the weavers somehow stole silk / gms' life force when they betrayed her, to cripple her and gain power

Then they flee of course, gms goes into recovery

[stray fog]

The cutscene that shows how the weavers were created must be related to the first sinner if it was placed after her boss fight

[dapper willow]

The weavers specifically put her to sleep

[lucid pasture]

I mean it ovviously is but i dont see how it relates to what im saying

[rugged sigil]

also just found out phantom and lace are sisters probably both silk constructs made by gms

[stray fog]

Im saying that I agree with you that the creation of weavers is what the first sinner was cursed to know

[crisp sonnet]

Wouldn't getting the essence of your being partially stolen from you put you to sleep, or tire you

Also thay could be to cover their escape

[wide wraith]

the game is just bug silking song

[ember river]

GMS can just produce silk herself

[crisp sonnet]

There is no deeper meaning hornet is just silking all over the place

[ember river]

I don't think she needs weavers for that, probably wants to use them to finally wake up

[stray fog]

I remember that "focus" was mentioned somewhere in the early game but I can't recall where

[dapper willow]

I think the first sinner cutscene implies that Grandma gave the weavers power

[ember river]

Apostasy is denying the divinity or existence of a god

[lucid pasture]

Actually I do understand you now but like to me the scene after first sinner was about them being betrayed by Silk in some other way and not really them being annoyed at how Silk made they change. But actually taking the needolin scenes into account yeah it seems quite possible that First Sinner apostasy crime was really discovering this truth and being against Silk

[ember river]

She explicitly denies the weavers being divine

[crisp sonnet]

What if we just ask gms to stop and be nice and fix the kingdom, and then people will worship her anyways 🤯

Deep thoughts, gn all

[mossy jungle]

Now, the final question:
So. The haunting.
It’s clear it’s a recent thing, so what happened between weavers fleeing and the game events?
By promising immortality, gms started to put silk in the lineage of firstborn bugs, until she could control the silk inside them?
Why though? She had a full society that worshipped her while also granting them some small form of autonomy, so why did gms need absolute control over them, to the point of destroying a society?

[crisp sonnet]

So they would not and could not betray her like her weavers did

[lucid pasture]

she probably went insane by that point tbh

[crisp sonnet]

100% control is better than 99% with 1% of control through faith

[rugged sigil]

i mean if they're imprisoned for a knowing a secret i doubt that fact would be written on their prison cell

[mossy jungle]

Ahhh, that might make sense

[dapper willow]

No
The bugs put the silk in themselves for immortality
It just helped Grandma later on
Also when the weavers left the Conductors took over their mantle

[mossy jungle]

Also, very likely