sk-lore

[left oyster]

why did chara make hornet do that
i mean

[vivid kernel]

Nah its not bait

She has the colors of the vessel

[ember river]

So did the pale king

[vivid kernel]

Shes like thk

[vivid kernel]

His body wasn’t black tho

[ember river]

And so does pretty much every weaver

[sacred heath]

nah Hornet made THK eat cardboard

[ember river]

I guess widow is void too

[vivid kernel]

They have multiple eys

No vessel has extra sets of eyes

[uncut holly]

I always use the wording possibly, and potentially. I never state something as fact unless i believe it is very much so. You however keep going around in circles, and keep trying to start fights for the sake of it. I dunno why, and I cant empathize with why someone would want to do that.

[lucid pasture]

all bugs in bilewater are void 🔥 🔥 🔥

[vivid kernel]

Fr

[ember river]

You are a genius

[vivid kernel]

Zote is void too

[ember river]

Zote is the pale king

[vivid kernel]

You can tell because his body is black and his shell is white

[glossy badger]

This is true

[vivid kernel]

Does that mean lace is void

[glossy badger]

Yes

[ember river]

Because if I find something baseless I argue against it and hold my stance

[vivid kernel]

Makes sense

[ember river]

Guys I think void lace is void

[left oyster]

I'm working on a theory about the Ancient Caste and Void...
It's a bit of a stretch though but it makes sense

[vivid kernel]

So herra is the daughter of silk mother grand?

[sacred heath]

speak

[atomic dirge]

he's void, HE's void, I'm void! is anyone else here void???

[vivid kernel]

Yep

[ember river]

I'm void too

[glossy badger]

I'm void

[vivid kernel]

Im void

[ember river]

They aren't directly created by her after the first generation (presumably), but they are granny's special race

(they're spider aryans)

[sacred heath]

Ahh, it doesn’t matter! As long as someone’s void, everything’ll work out!

[vivid kernel]

So hairnet is related to the silk grand mother through gene pools and generation

So lace and hornet are similar but reversed

[ember river]

Yes

[vivid kernel]

So lace is a spider

[ember river]

Lace is more similar to a vessel than it is to a spider

[lucid pasture]

they dont jave the same genes brooooo she just evolved spiders thats not giving them the same genes

[vivid kernel]

So shes silk

[ember river]

Lace is silk

[vivid kernel]

Like vessel are void

[ember river]

Yes

Well not really since vessels are more than void

More like collector, or kingsmoulds

[vivid kernel]

So are the black parts of the vessel void or is it shell

Or is only the head shell

[ember river]

I am not a vessel biologist

[lucid pasture]

LMAOOO

[vivid kernel]

Become one

[sacred heath]

excellent question!
we don’t know

[ember river]

Sorry I am going to become an architect and shed my bug shell for a metal one

[vivid kernel]

Void is like a liquid

[ember river]

And put a mechanical heart inside

So when I die someone has to wind it up again for the next 500 years

[vivid kernel]

So I think its bodies is like hardened void

[gleaming creek]

Is Herrah a pure weaver, or is she some kind of Weaver/Spider hybrid?

[ember river]

Weavers are spiders, but I think herrah is a normal weaver

[vivid kernel]

She parts weaver part silk

[ember river]

Ignore this other guy

[vivid kernel]

What does that mean?

[sacred heath]

I’d like to think she’s a hybrid
but I think the game confirms she’s pure weaver

[ember river]

That herrah isn't a hybrid

[vivid kernel]

Wait are the weavers head masks?

[ember river]

Yes

[vivid kernel]

Why do they were mask

[left oyster]

The reason there's no Ancient Caste present isn't because a magical threat took them down or they withered away
Much the opposite, they succeeded.

They wished to rid themselves of fear, of emotions.
They wanted to give up their soul and be cleansed by void...

In other words, they wished to EMBRACE THE VOID.
This might be the reason Pale King believed that Void could make creatures "Hollow" in the first place, because he discovered from its remains that it's what the Ancient Caste aspired to do. To become Hollow.

What if, they succeeded?
They didn't just "become Hollow".
They BECAME PART OF THE VOID.
Why does the Void appear to be conscious despite not being "unified"?
It lashes out violently at anything...

It's because that IS the Ancient Caste, they BECAME VOID.
All of their consciousness, absorbed by the liquid. It might not even have had those tendrils before the Ancient Caste.
Those ARE the Ancient Caste, lashing out at anything not a part of their perfect goopy society.

[vivid kernel]

So base weavers look like herea?

[sacred heath]

holy wall of text, batman

[ember river]

Wait, was that passage from the ancient civilization?

[vivid kernel]

So why do they were masks if their heads are small

[ember river]

They may develop it naturally, I dunno

[unborn wigeon]

Hornet is Weaver in half part. So Herrah is full Weaver.

[ember river]

Mask lore is complex

[left oyster]

As far as I know Weavers didn't worship Void

[toxic oyster]

happened to the ||snail shamans after the rituals?||

[ember river]

Yes!

[vivid kernel]

Like the mask maker in mount fay

[left oyster]

DEAD

[sacred heath]

jokes aside this is the best theory I’ve seen in here all day

[toxic oyster]

huh how

[vivid kernel]

So herra is related to silk mother

[left oyster]

idk they're just gone

[vivid kernel]

And herra is the siter of lace

[ember river]

I haven't really checked abyss stuff with the HK abyss to check similarities

[ember river]

They aren't really related

[sacred heath]

well, yes but no

[left oyster]

Also, it has an Arcane Egg in there, so it is the same civilization

[ember river]

Lace is a creation, it's not a daughter or anything

I guess weavers are creations too

But they don't share many similarities

[vivid kernel]

So weavers are related to lace

[ember river]

Oh that is very true

[ember river]

They have a common creator but not much else in common

[toxic oyster]

lace is like, "pure" silk. It's like, not organic

[vivid kernel]

So lace is like vessel

[atomic dirge]

i mean Lace was def created with the intent of being a daughter to GMS no

[left oyster]

I assume Weavers were exploring the Abyss like the Pale King which is why there's needolin door there

[vivid kernel]

Void and silk are similar in ways

[ember river]

That makes sense

[sacred heath]

only in the sense they were both made by GMS

[ember river]

Lace is more like the Collector/Kingsmoulds in how she was created

[neat sandal]

created from her mother silk

[atomic dirge]

from someone like GMS who wants everyone to be loyal to her it'd make sense

[gleaming creek]

I think this is Hornet's family tree then?

[toxic oyster]

yea, or some artificial life. she was like, manufactured. A doll. Weavers/Hornet are actually living beings.

[left oyster]

Care about your daughters that just wanted independence ❌
Kill those daughters to make another daughter cause why not ✅

[ember river]

Pretty much

[spark valve]

No gms goes straight to Herrah

[unborn wigeon]

Given how ancient Hornet is, Herrah might be first generation Weaver

[ember river]

I think weavers were also massive assholes

[atomic dirge]

Weavers weren't exactly like, born from GMS
they were Pharlids that GMS mutated into Weavers

[vivid kernel]

Do you think that weavers could be those tiny spider from deepnest

[gleaming creek]

Oh, so she was a direct descendant of GMS?

[sacred heath]

from First Sinner’s cutscene we can guess that the Weavers are normal bugs that were “uplifted” by GMS
Lace is a construct made by GMS out of her silk

[ember river]

That's the case for first sinner, it seems

[sacred heath]

different situations

[neat sandal]

no. cause herrah need mommy and daddy pharlid

[spark valve]

Weavers are all female and have trouble reproducing in general any full weaver is first generation

[vivid kernel]

If these are masks why are the eyes yellow

[atomic dirge]

what

[ember river]

That may be true?

[sacred heath]

They’re glowing through the mask

[vivid kernel]

And why did that one uninfected weaver have white eye but weavers have black eyes

[ember river]

Mask lore is weird, I told you

[vivid kernel]

And don’t weavers have many limbs

[gleaming creek]

In that case, this?

[ember river]

My headcanon is that the pale king stood worm his entire life and had no arms or legs

[elfin minnow]

Pale king is not that bad ngl

[vivid kernel]

Could the pale king revert to wyrm form?

And how did the pale king die

[ember river]

Everything points to void

[vivid kernel]

Is the pale king’s head technically his mouth

[gleaming creek]

I think the tiny spider might be sentient too. It seems to be wearing ragged clothes. Assuming of course it's not just hairy.

[sinful nimbus]

Nothing points to void

He glowed it wouldn't be able to touch him

[ember river]

The void particles in question

The godseeker saying how he was utterly erased

[sinful nimbus]

From the dead kingsmoulds in the next room?

[sinful nimbus]

So

[ember river]

Void tendrils seeping into the kingsmould he stored the palace in

[sinful nimbus]

They are probably seeping out

The kingsmould is breaking down as the game goes on

[vivid kernel]

Why can the collector speak

[sacred heath]

hes lying dead in his throne room surrounded by void perticles
in his castle which is about a hop skip and a jump from the fuckin void ocean
not a big leap to make

[vivid kernel]

And not vessels

[ember river]

I think he was imprinted by the personality of some other bug and it's like an echo

[gleaming creek]

Yes. I think it is. However since mouths on characters are not visible, we can't confirm. It's more likely that his mouth migrated to his face, and what were pincers in his past form became horns.

[ember river]

Collector is very weird

[sinful nimbus]

The castle is in a protected dream 🥴

[vivid kernel]

Zote has a mouth

[sinful nimbus]

What did the void sea have awoken dream nail

[vivid kernel]

Elderbug has a mouth

[ember river]

Did it need it?

[sinful nimbus]

To enter white palace it would yes

[vivid kernel]

What does it mean to produce silk for a shell

[gleaming creek]

Zote is the exception. Most characters don't have a visible mouth.

[ember river]

The vessels don't have dream nails and yet shades show up against the radiance

[sacred heath]

the void goes where it pleases

[vivid kernel]

Void is related to dream

[sinful nimbus]

Yes because there is already void in the dream

[ember river]

Also the kingsmould IS void

[vivid kernel]

Or

[sinful nimbus]

Also that's not a dream protected with a seal

[ember river]

the dream is at the very least surrounded by void

[vivid kernel]

Void can pretty much be anywhere if some of it is there

[sinful nimbus]

Why would that void be hostile to PK

[vivid kernel]

Like in pharloom

[sinful nimbus]

Void generally doesn't actively seek out conflict

[ember river]

Void is hostile to everything

[vivid kernel]

The vessels showed up

[gleaming creek]

The void could be like a virus? All it takes is one healthy vessel to enter a dream and then the rest of the void follows?

[vivid kernel]

Yeah

[ember river]

It is described as the darkness that will consume everything

[sinful nimbus]

But it doesn't actively seek out fights AND its pacified by bright lights

[ember river]

Pretty much a stand in for entropy or whatever

[sinful nimbus]

In the context of Silksong where GMS is meddling with it yeah

[ember river]

Hence why it takes longer to kill higher beings and doesn't obliterate them outright

[sinful nimbus]

it CAN'T kill them

[gleaming creek]

Really, the biggest question is why doesn't void invade other dreams?

[ember river]

It can

It can and does

[sacred heath]

the humble DNM sequence

[pliant cedar]

is this thing hollow knight?

[sacred heath]

the humble ETV ending

[vivid kernel]

Yea

[sinful nimbus]

Not when they're in the comfort of their own home and when its ununified

[gleaming creek]

Perhaps the vessels are indifferent towards other bosses, but it's personal against the radiance?

[ember river]

If you think radiance surives in the void after DNM you're coping

[sinful nimbus]

Void Heart didn't exist at the time PK was killed

[ember river]

That's the knight, the HK protagonist

[sinful nimbus]

Who is bro fighting

HK fans read challenge

[vivid kernel]

Hornet and thk has a bond before the events of hk

[ember river]

I've gotta be a wyrm and have foresight to read messages you haven't sent yet

[gleaming creek]

I think it's dead. The only reason why GMS survived is because she built a coccoon around herself creating a barrier.

[ember river]

And it still didn't survive for long

[sinful nimbus]

[gleaming creek]

Radiance had zero protection, and had its eyes gouged out

[ember river]

The coccoon is crumbling when we get there

[sacred heath]

quick discover
thk: the hollow knight, the guy you fight at the end of the game. theyre the tall goober with daddy issues
tk: the knight, the little vessel you play as. they also have daddy issues they just don’t care

[ember river]

God forbid I send a message already written as a follow up to my previous messages a few seconds after you send yours

[vivid kernel]

Wow

[unborn wigeon]

Yeah GMS was about to die eventually to the void, but Hornet's concern was that the thrashing was going to ruin Pharloom before it ends

[sacred heath]

sorry if you already knew that

[ember river]

And it would have

[sinful nimbus]

There was no message that implied Radiance wasn't killed by the void, what were you responding to?

[ember river]

To you saying that void can't kill higher beings, which is stupid

[neat sandal]

what happen if you pour lava to void

[ember river]

The white lady also has a natural glow and explicitly states she needs the everbloom not to be consumed

[sinful nimbus]

I was talking about ununified void

[ember river]

The lava is consumed by the void

[sinful nimbus]

No she doesn't 🥴

She also wasn't nearly as bright as PK

[vivid kernel]

Why does phantom sound like an angry bird

[gleaming creek]

She's angry. 🙁

[coral wren]

Is the abyss like the center of the world

[sinful nimbus]

Or the bottom

Its unclear if HK's world is spherical

[gleaming creek]

Unknown, but certainly possible

[coral wren]

Flat hollowknightworld theory

[sacred heath]

flat abyss theory

[ember river]

I wonder what ONLY MEANS WE POSSESS means

Really makes you wonder

[sinful nimbus]

Yes she can't dip into the void lake and survive duh

[elfin minnow]

I wonder how many other high beings are there

[neat sandal]

that mean ONLY MEANS THEY POSSESS

[ember river]

So tell me sir, does that mean they can't survive in the void by themselves?

[gleaming creek]

Hornet's comment on the Shadow Creeper seems to imply that Void is everywhere.

[sinful nimbus]

You might as well start arguing that the lighthouse didn't exist if you take that dialogue to mean bright lights don't pacify void

[gleaming creek]

"A creature long familiar to me. I suspect that no matter how far I travel, if I descend deep enough they will always be there. "

[spark valve]

Or vessels

[ember river]

They pacified tendrils lashing out, take a bath in there and come back alive now

[neat sandal]

yes. If they can. They would say IT'S ONE OF TWO MEANS THEY POSSESS

[sinful nimbus]

Are you arguing that PK took a bath in void

Really?

[ember river]

I am arguing that the void got to PK somehow

[sinful nimbus]

proof

[ember river]

Void particles around his corpse not seen elsewhere

And again, the utterly erased part of his death

[gleaming creek]

I mean, just because the void is harmed by light doesn't mean it won't try to take down glowing things?

[pliant cedar]

is there any backstory about grandmother silk? is she just some random god that came from nowhere

[gleaming creek]

A lighthouse is just too tall and out of its reach, so it can't do much about it.

[ember river]

All gods are random beings that kinda just showed up and did their thing

[sinful nimbus]

There are collapsed kingsmoulds nearby that's hardly surprising

[silk dirge]

thats our best guess right now

[sinful nimbus]

Also void particles aren't hostile

[silk dirge]

i mean there isnt a definitive "start of the world" in bug world we know about

[sacred heath]

nobody is suggesting that the void fumes killed him

[silk dirge]

though if there was i wouldnt be surprised if it was like all higher beings emerged from the void

[sinful nimbus]

But they are using void fumes as evidence that void killed him?

[ember river]

I am suggesting that the void killed him, be it over time or whatever

[sinful nimbus]

Void doesn't do that

[ember river]

As remnants of the presence of the void, yes

the pale king worked with void often, too

[sinful nimbus]

Which is an assumption that isn't substantiated

[spark valve]

If pk died from void there would be some clear signs like the vines

[sinful nimbus]

There are dead void creatures nearby go figure out where the void came from

[ember river]

He was making soldiers and platforms out of void and soul, it's not hard to see how it would reach him

[gleaming creek]

I feel like overexposure to the void might've killed him.

[sacred heath]

they are using evidence found at the scene to attempt to paint a picture of the crime

[ember river]

If you make uranium robots everyday you'll die of radiation poisoning to the surprise of nobody

[gleaming creek]

Kinda like weak radiation. A little bit won't harm you, but prolonged exposure will kill you eventually.

[sinful nimbus]

Void isn't corrosive/toxic/radioactive

[wooden sphinx]

ye its all consuming

and you need special flower to survive it

[gleaming creek]

In that case, I dunno

[elfin minnow]

Why did the first sinner get imprisoned for knowing the truth

[ember river]

Void IS consumption

[sinful nimbus]

Void either kills you by slicing you up or what it did to Love Key bug

[sacred heath]

it eats people

[gleaming creek]

Maybe he just locked himself in a tower and starved to death

[sacred heath]

it literally eats people

[ember river]

Probably denied weavers as holy which pissed off weaverkind

[sinful nimbus]

Its obviously not the former and if it was the latter there would be void vines burrowing into his corpse and a void version of PK running around

[neat sandal]

I think the sun exist

[coral wren]

I can't beat clover dancers because im too hard

[sinful nimbus]

There are no bodies of void in the palace for it to do that

[ember river]

Me when I run on game mechanics and not established lore

[sage flame]

How long is the lifespan of bugs? I feel like it is considered normal for bugs to be hundreds of years old like Hornet, snail shamans, etc

[sinful nimbus]

These are both established pieces of lore

[ember river]

It's literally liquid erasure

[sinful nimbus]

Love Key bug isn't gameplay

[ember river]

That's the whole thing about void

[elfin minnow]

Well shes not doing anything bad tho 😔

[wooden sphinx]

i love void possed Radiance which TOTALLY exists in the lore

[ember river]

That's why I say weavers are self righteous assholes

[coral wren]

I agree

[gleaming creek]

Hornet is a goddess who is so long lived she apparently had multiple lovers, all of whome died of old age before her.

So lifespans in HK's bugs seem to vary a lot

[coral wren]

And then she dates a child

[sinful nimbus]

I'm quite curious how you believe it killed PK if it wasn't via attacking or imprinting

Because there are no other established methods in which it kills people

[glossy badger]

What

[sage flame]

Oh since Hornet is half god she has a long lifespan

[ember river]

Slow decay from handling void

[sinful nimbus]

Where is this established

[ember river]

Void is consumption and decay, use two braincells to figure it out

[sinful nimbus]

You could argue any character died by void by this logic

[ember river]

If they spent time close to the void, then yes

Also, proof, hornet's dialogue about the black egg

"That place is built to sustain your kind, it would quickly drain me"

[coral wren]

In act 3 she gets down bad for lace
Shes all like "id dive into a lake of void for you lace ❤️ ❤️ "

[sinful nimbus]

Multiple characters in HK spend a lot of time around void and are fine

[wooden sphinx]

his corpse is literally hollow and his power is gone from existance

[elfin minnow]

Why did some of the weavers die in hallownest

[ember river]

There isn't even liquid void

[ember river]

Infection and people just kinda die sometimes

[elfin minnow]

And also what happened to the weaver you saw in weavers den when u get weaversong

[sinful nimbus]

I won't be joining you in this. That space is built to sustain your likes. Its bindings would drain me were I to join.
That is because of the BINDINGS not the non existent void in the black egg

[sage flame]

So the ants aren’t corrupted, they are just isolated

[glossy badger]

I mightve been playing a bootleg version of silksong because I don't remember that

[sage flame]

What are the ants going to do without a queen?

[ember river]

I wonder what the bindings are for in a place built to sustain void-base organisms 🤔

[spark valve]

Uh oh she says what would drain her and it’s not void

[sinful nimbus]

He was always hollow

We have art from Ari of him alive and his eyes are still inset

[coral wren]

Is the knight silk?

[ember river]

In any case the godseeker talking about how the pale king was "erased so completely" kinda sells it for me

Feel free to disagree, but there's a single thing known to cause that to higher beings

[sinful nimbus]

In completely different circumstances

[elfin minnow]

Is grandma silk the asshole or is it the weavers

[sinful nimbus]

Both Radiance and GMS were physically dragged into the void and their bodies got completely demolished

[coral wren]

Both

[sinful nimbus]

Silk

[ember river]

Both, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree

[sinful nimbus]

Well yeah weavers also suck

[gleaming creek]

To be fair, she saved Lace because if she didn't the kingdom would be destroyed.

[sinful nimbus]

But I think what they did to GMS was understandable

[ember river]

Honestly feel free to theorize, this is the way I have to explain it

[gleaming creek]

I do think that Hornet probably respects Lace a little bit tho, since she did save her from GMS.

[teal drift]

Gms did nothing wrong 2025 campaign

[ember river]

From the people who brought you "Pale King was a great ruler actually"

[teal drift]

If you think about it, the Knight was the snare

[ember river]

The Knight just saw a snack

[neat sandal]

GMS did nothing wrong to them

[wooden sphinx]

Glory to the Pale administration

[sacred heath]

well he could have been a whole lot worse

[ember river]

Hey, they said the pay's great as a royal retainer

[sinful nimbus]

PK was a great ruler actually

[ember river]

Upwards of 5000 monthly geo

[elfin minnow]

3rd hollow knight game: hey maybe gms is not too bad

[waxen forum]

Hallownest stands eternal, glory to the Pale King

[ember river]

Until he starved his capital city, neglected the outer regions and then fucked off and left

[gleaming creek]

To be fair, in comparison to GMS, Pale King is a saint.

[sinful nimbus]

Bro is making stuff up

[elfin minnow]

But hes a deadbeat

[lucid pasture]

we dont even fucking know wtf gms did before being imprisoned

[ember river]

The city of tears was locked up and that's why we need that crest, then we find out even the rich bugs were starving and resorted to cannibalism

[sinful nimbus]

No we don't

[neat sandal]

to be fair most of the shit show happen in citadel is because weavers and normal bug did

[gleaming creek]

While the whole process behind making Vessels is messed up, he fully believed they're mindless robots that wouldn't care about being abandoned.

[sinful nimbus]

We see an entire kitchen full of food dawg 😭 🙏

[ember river]

Guess what that food is

[sinful nimbus]

Didn't know gruzzers were sapient actually

[gleaming creek]

In comparison, GMS and Radiance terrorized beings they knew damn well are sentient.

[spark valve]

Gruzzers and mushrooms

[sinful nimbus]

He was also in a trolley problem

[spiral swift]

Could fuck up a gruzzer-mushroom soup rn

[wooden sphinx]

to be fair city of tears was locked due to Radiance tantrum

[sinful nimbus]

That also wasn't his decision probably

[spark valve]

It was also probably not locked by him or even on his orders

[ember river]

Wait aren't those heads from those tall bugs?

[spark valve]

No

[sinful nimbus]

what tall bugs

[ember river]

The ones that lunge at you

[uncut holly]

My current running theory is GMS went and waged war on most of the races and people there, after making the Weavers.

[unborn wigeon]

Uplifted a race of unwilling spiders to be divine silk machines, infused the rest of the normal bugs in the kingdom with silk so that they can be eternal slaves, established the citadel to spread brainwash faith propaganda to milk rosaries out of the populace, destroyed all opposing factions that existed in the lands before.

[teal drift]

All pale beings did nothing wrong

[sacred heath]

“do i sacrifice potentially thousands of my children in order to find a pure vessel to seal away this vengeful god, or do I let it just fucking kill all my subjects?”

[ember river]

The silk infusion was entirely their doing

[gleaming creek]

Also true. He was at war with a fellow god. GMS was the only leader of Pharloom, yet she abused her power.

[silk dirge]

the weavers did most of that

[lucid pasture]

the infusion was not before she was imprisoned

[spiral swift]

All like 3 of them 😭

[ember river]

That's why hornet mentions "if they knew they were gifting so many minds to the monarch..."

[sinful nimbus]

GMS definitely did

[uncut holly]

I do think its likely that GMS did enslave people before being put to sleep, it just seems like something they would do unless they got the ability later

[teal drift]

Pale King and GMS for president and vice president.

[ember river]

And why the pontiff's needolin mentions praying for their chains and shit

[gleaming creek]

While PK is morally dubious at best, GMS and Radiance are much worse

[ember river]

They didn't know the monarch was malicious

[silk dirge]

white lady seems pretty innocent, pk had no choice, gms is straight up evil

[lucid pasture]

the citadel also was not estabilished by GMS

[teal drift]

The weavers did all the bad stuff, GMS was framed by the media.

[silk dirge]

she was definitely not up to good stuff

[lucid pasture]

THISSSSSSSSSS

[spring ruin]

literally did a drive by lol

[ember river]

To be fair a LOT of the fucked up stuff was done by the citizens of the citadel themselves prior to the haunting

[teal drift]

Also the bugs clearly infused themselves with silk they were asking to be possessed on a massive scale.

[spark valve]

gms is also bad but yes most of the horrible shit visible in the region currently is done by the weavers and perpetuated by the conductors

[lucid pasture]

fr

[ember river]

GMS didn't even have to intervene

[teal drift]

The haunting was morally justified 2025.

[coral wren]

Tbf to hornet, if I was a lesbian and I saw lace strike that gay ass pose in the cradle and go "nyaaa~" id be turned on too

[teal drift]

Oh no the discourse will start again soon

[uncut holly]

Weavers put GMS asleep by making the Citadel. Weavers started with The First Shrine or Songclave, where they sent out a signal to call bugs from the waste to worship the Citadel itself as we see that the bugs of the Citadel seemingly reference when getting to Songclave. roughly "So the Citadel has decided to let me live a little longer, for what purpose I do not know." They also mention the Citadel as having a call. The Pilgrims seem to worship the Citadel itself.

[lucid pasture]

I CANT TAKE IT ANYMORE

[uncut holly]

They also worshipped the Weavers

[ember river]

Why are you so insistent on weavers actually liking other bugs

[uncut holly]

They dont

[unborn wigeon]

GMS and her state run propaganda is too influential, at least the Pale King had press freedom

[ember river]

They absolutely despised them in hollow knight

[teal drift]

Weavers are elite haters.

[sinful nimbus]

Weavers were goats in HK

[ember river]

Also the citadel has nothing in common with weaver architecture, I theorize it started off as similar to a weavenest and ended up becoming that

[uncut holly]

Weavers where goats in Hollow Knight, helped out with a lot of things.

Weavers in Silk Song where awful

[silk dirge]

i feel like the weavers that ran away were not happy with what they were doing to pharloom

[spark valve]

Hallownest weavers have pretty clean hands they left before gms was sealed and didn’t have any part in the citadel

[teal drift]

Gms did nothing besides forcibly being put in a coma by ber “worshippers” and being grumpy about it.

[ember river]

I guess getting thrown off from your ivory tower by what you consider lesser bugs really puts you into place

[teal drift]

The haunting was justified fuck them catholics

[silk dirge]

she did something to the weavers to cause them to do that

[spark valve]

Eh we don’t really know that

[silk dirge]

"she called us daughters... she called us divine. she lied"

[teal drift]

The weavers were power hungry jerks GMS did no wrong to them besides raise them

[uncut holly]

It seems like GMS wanted the "World Spun Loyal" for her waking. As we see Widow doing. GMS seemed to wanted to conquer all of Pharloom as their intent.

[lucid pasture]

how do you even knlw that?

[fathom viper]

Do you think the act 3 ending confirms which hollow knight ending happened before silksong?

[teal drift]

“Oh no mommy told me i was more special than i actually was time to bind her in eternal slumber”

[silk dirge]

so it seems to me based off that quote gms did something to the weavers

[ember river]

I'm confused as to who imprisoned First Sinner, because right now I think it was the other weavers

[sinful nimbus]

yes dnm/etv

[silk dirge]

whether the weavers were justified in putting her to sleep idk

but it definitely seems to me she did something

[ember river]

According to mask maker it was to free themselves of her rule

[neat sandal]

when we will have map like this but silksong

[teal drift]

First sinners crime was telling the other weavers the truth, gms aint have nothing to do with it

[fathom viper]

feels like it would be embrace the void then since the ||shade lord appears||

[spark valve]

The ones who fled fled to escape gms, so they fled before she was put to sleep, which is when the citadel was built

[uncut holly]

Its likely though I believe that the Weavers where doing the same thing that GMS did roughly, and that they put GMS asleep to escape the very thing they are now doing themself because the apple does not fall far from the tree

[sinful nimbus]

Well conversely the void given form also appears

Both versions of it show up so the intent seems to be to leave it ambiguous

[teal drift]

Gms did nothing wrong, her subjects were just ungrateful upstarts fueled by heretical ambitions.

[ember river]

Also there is a weaver effigy in the slab near a corpse, so people may have been thrown in the slab over worshipping the weavers instead of GMS afterwards

[left oyster]

I LOVE WYRM

[fathom viper]

intent could also just be to make it clear to people who didn’t do the pantheons that it’s still ||the knight||, who knows

[spark valve]

Or the conductors imprisoned them

[teal drift]

Starting the gms redemption tour campaign

[silk dirge]

do we know if the slab was constructed by the weavers or the conductors

[sinful nimbus]

A god being betrayed by their dork creations, being sealed, then starting mass mind control. Wonder where I've heard that one before 🤔

[ember river]

The conductors were definetely in charge by then

[uncut holly]

How long where the events of the White Ward drawn out?

[silk dirge]

probably generations

[ember river]

We don't know and it's a good question

[uncut holly]

They appeared to have burned bodies there.

[teal drift]

Honestly the weavers are crazy in context—imagine catholic priests confessing that they have successfully chained god and are harvesting his power.

[silk dirge]

the whiteward probably was like over a few decades

[sinful nimbus]

Well first sinner is imprisoned there for apostasy against GMS so probably weavers

[ember river]

More like imagine angels

[uncut holly]

So they where burning the bodies of the Haunted potentially?

[spark valve]

Weavers if it was active during their reign for weavers to be sentenced there

[neat sandal]

arcane season 2

[ember river]

Angels come down from heaven saying that they are pissed off because they are just humans given wings

[jaunty fractal]

Hey guys, does the knight have any thoughts? I mean the true ending scene where everbloom evaporates and yet hornet and lace are brought to the surface. Was this void or knight or they're the same thing? Why void didn't consumed them? What do ya think about it

[sinful nimbus]

Well it clearly thought in HK so like

[teal drift]

The knight was helping its buddy ♥️

[ember river]

Because the knight was in control of the void by then

The one with the void heart can control it at his whims

[uncut holly]

What exactly was First Sinners crime of Apostasy?

[ember river]

Denying the Weavers' divinity

[teal drift]

She pointed out that weavers were elevated beings instead of divine beings

[lucid pasture]

i dont think it is that hornestly

[uncut holly]

I see. That also would make sense because their spite kept them alive, it wouldnt make nearly as much sense for them to be spiteful if it happened before Weavers, or with Conductors

[lucid pasture]

there has to have been mote things than that

[teal drift]

Gms was a perfect being with no flaws and the weavers tainted her, just thinking about it hurts 😢

[silk dirge]

also quick question what the fuck does the anatomy of a conductor look like how tf are they wearing those helmets

i would go fucking crazy if i was wearing a helmet that big my entire life

[teal drift]

Theyre just one massive shoulderpad

[lucid pasture]

i will,enter your agenda actually we have to start the gms revolution

[rocky kestrel]

||can someone explain to me the cursed ending??? From what I thinkbasically the child now reigns supreme||

[teal drift]

Maybe conductors are snaked coiled up inside that big tablecloth

[ember river]

They probably are very large bugs

A la godseeker I'd say

[lucid pasture]

gms didnt even want to haunt anyone it happened by mistake 🥲

[teal drift]

The child jumps in at an opportune moment in hornet and gms’ powerstruggle and takes over gms’ powrr

[rocky kestrel]

I see thx

[teal drift]

Unironically its possible the haunting is gms’ dream

[ember river]

You gave a parasite a great moment to strike and take over the powers of a god

[sinful nimbus]

-100 aura

[ember river]

I think it's pretty intentional

[sinful nimbus]

Maybe you just aren't as cool as the conductors

[ember river]

The ruling classes were the rulers because they were the coolest

[sinful nimbus]

True...

[ember river]

Architects went adeptus mechanicus and replaced their weak flesh

[teal drift]

The ruling class is selected by hype moments and aura competitions

[severe siren]

When hornet and gms turn into that wood it does look kinda majestic
A shame whatever’s inside will burst through and destroy it though

[ember river]

And probably kill everyone

[spark valve]

That’s definitely the worst thing happening in that ending

[ember river]

It's worse than the void collapse

[jaunty fractal]

Also silksong takes place after which ending? In the last scene, the knight briefly looks like he did after the fifth pantheon ending

I guess that's the answer

[ember river]

DNM or EtV, it's intentionally left ambiguous

[severe siren]

I was thinking what if there’s just another infant still even after the ending and its only purpose in existence is just to corrupt everything into wood and spread as much as possible

[ember river]

You see void given form and the army of shades, but you also see a glimpse of void given focus

[lucid acorn]

I’m pretty sure it takes place after pantheon ending

[ember river]

The army of siblings isn't present in the pantheon though

[neat sandal]

they may look like this

[ember river]

Wait that may be the case

[teal drift]

I love the nedolin dialogue on these 2 lmfao

[ember river]

Less fat but roughly that shape

[teal drift]

Thought id get lore but just chuckled

[ember river]

It gave me a good laugh

[sinful nimbus]

Twisted Child is up there with Wisp Thicket and Lost Garmond for things that make me question what TC was on when making this game

[severe siren]

This but less gluttonous yeah probably

[lucid acorn]

That could be because the knight was the only one that entered the pantheon but he could still leave

[teal drift]

Gray root infection is good actually.

[severe siren]

Wisp Thicket is pretty weird

[teal drift]

Give the lil guy some power ♥️

[ember river]

Wisp thicket is just a little cool mystery, but the twisted bud is creepy as hell

[severe siren]

I think its cool that it exists though

[spark valve]

Wisp thicket sucks twisted child is at least fun to think about

[ember river]

Yeah, I'm just saying there are intentionally aspects of both endings because it's meant to be ambiguous

[teal drift]

I wonder if you could get a heart from the wisp thicket originally

[tepid mountain]

Would be interesting to see a spin off sequel from this weird ending, similar to how Nier branches off from Drakengard's "joke" ending.

[ember river]

Well yeah, it kinda sucks but the boss is alright

[severe siren]

Team cherry will hear this and then specifically to spite you they will make a troupe lore connection there in a content update

[lucid pasture]

second hardest boss in the game for me

[sinful nimbus]

Boss is maybe my least favorite

[ember river]

Really?

[spark valve]

Probably

[sinful nimbus]

there's also mr lifeblood infection and beastfly 2

[teal drift]

Wisp thicket was team cherry throwing a flame god in there just for fun

[silk dirge]

twisted bud makes you want to fucking shoot it

[ember river]

I killed voided beastfly 2 lol

[humble iron]

you have to remember that the majority of sentient bugs wear a mask their whole lives, so a helmet is not so different

[ember river]

If you reach act 3 it becomes voided

[severe siren]

So does ass jim

[sinful nimbus]

woah i oughtra try that

[silk dirge]

sure but a mask is pretty light

[ember river]

Ass jim?

[silk dirge]

a helmet that big isnt

[severe siren]

My bad, the in-game name is Lugoli

[jaunty fractal]

No please god no

[ember river]

OH that guy

[sinful nimbus]

shame my goat groal can't be voided 😔

[ember river]

It's ironically much easier that way

[lucid pasture]

it might have been the second i most died at least but i havent been counting lol im pretty sure it was tho. the one i most died was karmelita by far

[ember river]

Since it stops to shoot those 3 projectiles 90% of the time it'd summon

[sinful nimbus]

"Lugoli"

[ember river]

So you can dodge them much more easily and deal some damage

[humble iron]

It would be actually fun to see him get shade soul over vengeful spirit lol

[severe siren]

Voided rhino thing is annoying (not skull tyrant)

[ember river]

Oh god

That fucking thing

It's annoying as a normal bug already

[lucid pasture]

did you all see the area above lugoli arena with the act 3 skill too qhat did you make of it

[humble iron]

Voided rhino when I bring 8 killer drones to the fight:

[sinful nimbus]

did plumed rhino make it into the game

[ember river]

There are bosses that you just have to nuke with architect's crest

[severe siren]

Wait what? What’s up there?

[humble iron]

Yeah, not really very important

[ember river]

Like the lifeblood shitface

[spark valve]

Storage with a bunch of meat

[severe siren]

I haven’t went back to the arena

[lucid pasture]

idk its like food and theres a needolin scene

[ember river]

Deploy chemical weapons against him until he turns to dust

[severe siren]

Ah okay

[lucid pasture]

but i ve no idea what it meant thats why im asking lol. idk if it was just like showing meat but it seemed to mean something else

[elfin minnow]

What happened to the other sentinels why are they inactive 😢

[lucid pasture]

if second sentinel qas so good why didnt they make first

[ember river]

They did and it's dead

[elfin minnow]

Fr

[ember river]

I love it about the numbered machines

[lucid pasture]

lmao

[humble iron]

I think it's just worldbuilding tbh

[ember river]

You can find the rest of them

[elfin minnow]

Whys the cogwork heart spread in different areas tho

[lucid pasture]

ofc it is but we are in the lore chat!!@@ worldbuilding abt what

[ember river]

Like the chorus robots, you kill Fourth Chorus and can find 3 more in the architect's lair

[humble iron]

considering how piss easy second sentinel's fight, I'm not surprised

[silk dirge]

isnt worldbuilding a part of lore

[lucid pasture]

LMAO

[ember river]

It's still fun

[humble iron]

worldbuilding abt how they store their food lol

[unborn wigeon]

Cannibalism

[elfin minnow]

It wouldve been hard if every attack did double dmg

[humble iron]

not even it's really one of the easier fights to dodge

with plenty of heal windows

[elfin minnow]

U could say that to every boss tbh

[ember river]

Some bosses are pretty hard to dodge

[humble iron]

Idk man other fights felt more difficult

[elfin minnow]

Just wished that fourth chorus is an endgame boss

[lucid pasture]

i liked second sentinel fight

[ember river]

Also, easier doesn't mean unfun, cog dancers is a great fight and it's very easy

[humble iron]

I liked it for sure but it's strange how easy it is at this point in the game

[humble iron]

I somehow struggled with it, a single mistake tends to cascade into more in that fight

[sonic dawn]

can someone tell me what is the twisted child?

[ember river]

Robot bosses are pretty fun for some reason

[ember river]

My mistakes were generally of mistaking a telegraph so thankfully I could get back on my feet

Also hornet being able to heal midair is insanely busted

[humble iron]

A parasite that lets Greyroot get their rebirth ?

[elfin minnow]

I need more sentinel n robot content theyre so cool

[ember river]

There are spots where the bosses can't hit you, you don't even have to time the heals properly

[sonic dawn]

who is greyroot and why does it want to rebirth

[humble iron]

For real I think most of the double damage is counterbalanced by that

[humble iron]

That's just their life cycle. They're found in shellwood

[ember river]

The cogbots are one of the most interesting part of the lore for me

[lucid pasture]

yeah

[uncut holly]

The Hollow Knight wiki turns out has a category for "Powerful Beings" on powerful beings that are not confirmed to be Higher Beings but seem to have more power than the average bug. I feel like Greyroot would probably go in there.

[sonic dawn]

i found the twisted child and ignored it, didnt pick it up

[ember river]

There are spots against lost lace where you can't get hit by anything except the portal shots

[ember river]

Greyroot himself isn't that strong

He relies on strong bugs to parasite and grow stronger

[uncut holly]

Greyroot may not be a higher being but their definitely powerful

[silk dirge]

i would assume that would be like weavers, hornet, twisted bud

[ember river]

...Zote

[humble iron]

Greyroot is definitely on the higher power levels, not many creature can catch Hornet by surprise and subdue her so quickly

[silk dirge]

zote is a highest being, on level with mr mushroom

[uncut holly]

Greyroot themself outside of a host can deny having their mind read, and overpower Hornet. They also are debated being a Higher Being by some so they definitely are a powerful being.

[modern ruin]

greyroot got those white lady eyes

[rain spindle]

I mean that includes normal grimm, hornet, the hollow knight, greyroot, karmelita, khann

[silk dirge]

karmelita and khann are regular bugs that just lead different clans

[ember river]

Are they outside a host, though? I think when he shows up he is always using the remnants of the last victim

[uncut holly]

On the wiki it has The God of Thunder and The God of Rain, and Abyss Creature.

[humble iron]

Nightmare Grimm also should be on there right ?

[silk dirge]

theres nothing really higher being about them they cant do any special magic shit theyre just extremely skilled bugs that lead different tribes

[ember river]

Nightmare King is just the Nightmare Heart's avatar

[rain spindle]

Nightmare king grimm is the avatar of nightmare heart. Technically a higher being

[ember river]

It's an actual higher being

[uncut holly]

I mean Greyroot is a root so I dont think their last victim could be a root, it also seems to make all thier things like the child which they need for it out of roots. So their probably just a root

[humble iron]

Doesn't that make regular grimm the same then ? Since he's the point of access to the nightmare heart

[ember river]

They become wooden roots when they die, hornet unexpectedly resists him due to her biology

[lucid pasture]

thinking about it kinda crazy that the only male leading reign in silksong was verdania where they wrre gays

[rain spindle]

Grimm is only a vessel but the avatar is just NKG

[ember river]

And it's the one that suffered the most

The tragedy of verdania will never not be funny

[uncut holly]

Hornet only can resist them if you use the machine, but if you keep going any ending where you dont use the machine Hornet dies somehow to them

[ember river]

It's such a stream of bad luck

[elfin minnow]

Whys the second sentinel the only one put in the glass tube

[humble iron]

how's it funny 😭

[rain spindle]

Technically the crust kingdom too

[uncut holly]

Also Greyroot themself saw Hornet as a viable candidate so Hornet probably would have died

[lucid pasture]

is kahn a man?

idfk

[rain spindle]

Hes a king

[silk dirge]

khann?

[rain spindle]

Crust king khann

[lucid pasture]

oh im STUPID

thats true LMAO

[covert night]

groal is also a male i think

[silk dirge]

yeah

[humble iron]

"somehow"
Gee I sure wonder how the root supplied with an endless source of power managed to kill hornet

[lucid pasture]

i wouldnt call groal a leader

[silk dirge]

he is

[rain spindle]

Groal doesnt lead a kingdom he leads a shithole

[lucid pasture]

or was he

[rain spindle]

He leads the bilewater resistance

[covert night]

he was probably a leader before citadel dumped all their shit into his kingdom

[elfin minnow]

Fuck gr*al

[uncut holly]

I think Hornet would have died anyway, Greyroot saw them as a good cadidate for their parasitism

[silk dirge]

he leads the stillkin against the citadel who ruined their land

[ember river]

Because the citadel wants to kidnap one of the princes pretty much just because, otherwise they genocide their kingdom.
One of them accepts, breaking the heart of his lover.
Then the kingdom gets trashed from a cavein anyways.
But fret not! The citadel saved the bugs in the memorium in case something like this happened!
Nevermind that section broke containment and died anyways.

[lucid pasture]

yeah but like was he an actual leader before this resistance existed?

[ember river]

And then hornet just murders the other green prince while mourning

[silk dirge]

id assume he held some high role

[ember river]

And puts his heart as a trophy in her home

[lucid pasture]

i think i thiught khann was a woman because of a dialogue i had with shaman after it but i think they were talking about nyleth in retrospect

[ember river]

Khann is called a king

[lucid pasture]

i mean i know now lol im not doubting it

[humble iron]

tbh I feel like he only grew to this size after eating the shaman's soul, similar to how soul master grew, so he was probably a regular moss guy prior to that

[rain spindle]

technically its both hearts conjoined

[lucid pasture]

im only explaining myself

[humble iron]

I mean there's literally king in the title

[lucid pasture]

Bro im gonna kill yall

[humble iron]

and other than the king of Poland I don't think any woman has the king title

[lucid pasture]

i already understood it😭 😭 😭 😭

[humble iron]

mb mb

[ember river]

Still, having a beating heart as a trophy is kinda fucked up

[rain spindle]

shes homophobic

[ember river]

I think the lore says it's the memory of verdania, preserved, but it's more funny to think that Hornet is just a sadistic murderer

Or something like that, I don't know about heart lore

[uncut holly]

I havent found any lore on how the Coral Caves Ocean was dried up. Khann and his crew supposedly lasted against GMS up until it dried up, but I still havent found anything on how.

[silk dirge]

i mean i think killing green prince so he can rest with his lover is probably the best outcome

"reunited in heaven" type deal

[left oyster]

what was pale king teaching her...

[silk dirge]

probably citadel blocked off water source

[ember river]

Why are you so hell bent on the karaks fighting the citadel

[humble iron]

New theory, Hornet personally killed Ze'mer's lover

[uncut holly]

I didnt say they fought Citadel

[ember river]

I think it's better if they simply existed long before pharloom, it adds neat worlbuilding

[silk dirge]

i mean either the ocean dried up naturally or the citadel destroyed its water source

[ember river]

Or GMS, doesn't matter

[covert night]

probably the latter

[uncut holly]

I mean didnt they fight GMS?

[ember river]

Not the same thing but essentially the same thing

[ember river]

Where is it stated

[left oyster]

Pale King taught Hornet his full motto "No cost too great... to kill the gays..."

[lucid pasture]

they got the water source into high halls #fuckcrabs

[left oyster]

wrong reply also lmao

[silk dirge]

it would make sense if the ocean was fed by like pale lake which got cut off by the citadel

[uncut holly]

We know they fought something related to some iteration of that force. And we deliberately dont know when in the timeline they fought them.

[rain spindle]

Khann lasted the most

[humble iron]

It's implied that they had some conflict with the webbing in the throne room imo

[silk dirge]

since this is where barnacle bay was supposed to be

[left oyster]

anyway its so sad how green prince just dies after you fight the clover dancers 🙁

[covert night]

citadel also has mutant coral creatures in memorium

[uncut holly]

We dont know when the Coral Tower fell

[ember river]

They seem forming in position and acknowledging this king as the last, it doesn't seem like a battle or resistance

[uncut holly]

I used to think Khann was the last one because he lasted the most. But I forgot where i heard that

[elfin minnow]

Im so excited for what the dlc is gonna be

[rain spindle]

Mano eles são literalmente isso

[silk dirge]

so its likely the ocean was connected to where barnacle bay is supposed to be and the citadel cut them off

[lucid pasture]

i think greymoor rain parelling the city of tears in HK making you think like "woah there must be a beautiful lake up there idk" and then you go up and discover its MAGGOT WATER is pretty funny

[ember river]

Technically the ants are the last ones

Since karmelita still lives

[uncut holly]

Do you know that for a fact?

Oh well they might have fallen before that

[ember river]

We know karmelita is alive when we arrive

[left oyster]

kskakskaksksk

[uncut holly]

Because the Silk reanimates corpses

[ember river]

They probably fell with the Haunting, according to journal entries

[ember river]

She's alive and normal, she speaks with us

[silk dirge]

karmelita is definitely not haunted

she speaks normally

[ember river]

She's just very old

[silk dirge]

yeah

[humble iron]

tbf nothing tells us that Khann isn't in a dormant state, seeing as one of his soldiers can be awakened

[ember river]

The ants are haunted though

[lucid pasture]

the normal ants are haunted tho arent they?

[silk dirge]

yeah

the only two ants that arent are karmelita and the shop dude who gets killed

[uncut holly]

Not Karmelita her people, Karmelita in game is hiding from her haunted people. But what specifically makes you think the Ants lasted the most from the entries?

[ember river]

Could be, but it's also said that he was to be the last king.
Maybe it's just dehydrated, add water and good as new

[lucid pasture]

probably the other ant boss who hunts us is also not haunted he is just crazy too lol

[rain spindle]

Canonically the strongest dream warrior is markoth

Which is funny in retrospect

[humble iron]

He's got the terracotta army aesthetics so the coral tower seems to have become a grave tbf

[silk dirge]

i mean hes an outcast so i wonder if theres a traitor lord type deal

[covert night]

we can tell

[neat sandal]

never seen them revive from death.
so I doubt they got haunted

[ember river]

The karaks are long dead

And nyleth comes out of the left field and I really have no opinion

Also verdania is a rather recent occurence considering all its participants are still alive and reatively fresh

[humble iron]

They are objectively haunted, silk particles and journal entries

[ember river]

Probably is

[uncut holly]

Nyleth did die at some point

[humble iron]

well olgrim is still alive and relatively fresh despite being older than Hornet in HK

Some bugs live a really long time

[uncut holly]

I thought that the Princes families hunting the Pale Stag somehow made them immortally long lived, along with giving them the right to rule.

[lucid pasture]

the green prince definitely has been living for a preeeettty loooooong tiiiiime

[ember river]

HK doesn't happen that long after the infection though

[left oyster]

Nice to Vessels despite knowing their true nature fanclub:

• Ogrim
• Hornet (eventually)
• White Lady (sort of kind of after you get the kingsoul)

[uncut holly]

It could have just been the right to rule though

[ember river]

Emilitia is alive too

[uncut holly]

Green Prince is unnaturally long lived though even by normal standards.

[ember river]

And so is Ze'Mer and the original mantis lords

[humble iron]

Doesn't Hornet state that the Pale Stag is just a made up legend that became real because this was in the Prince's memories/dreams

[lucid pasture]

Green Prince says Verdania got fucked by citadel before the haunting got to the level it is nowadays too

[uncut holly]

Yeah it might not be real

[neat sandal]

oh yeah

[humble iron]

I mean she's called eternal

[light saddle]

Grimm is also quite polite I’d say

[ember river]

The stag is also alive, but old

[vale jetty]

Question - how exactly does saving Lace stop the void cataclysm? Do I understand correctly that the world collapse would be caused because of GMS fighting void and causing all the quakes? And now she is gone, so void just let's it all go?

[ember river]

And elderbug recalls seeing dirtmouth better

[uncut holly]

People theorized Emelita might have lived because of her flowers, it is kind of a mystery she lived so long seeing as she must have lived a very long time as shes a normal high society bug

[lucid pasture]

The void thing was happening bc GMS wanted to save Lace

[ember river]

Nah, GMS stops resisting

[humble iron]

I mean it happened at least 1 lifetime after the infection since elderbug didn't see the stag stations being open

[ember river]

And accepts her fate

[uncut holly]

We do know that the Nail Masters and the Nail Smith where alive back then though

[neat sandal]

so technically. GMS gone, Karmelita could see her tribe free

[ember river]

Could be, though they may have closed with the first outbreak

[uncut holly]

Which means Sly is old

[lucid pasture]

She was only resisting that much because Lace was also going to die, so when you save Lace she stops

[ember river]

The midwife is also kicking

[vale jetty]

Oh, so the snail shamans actually had a good idea of stopping Silk, they just didn't take a mother love onto consideration?

[lucid pasture]

yes

[humble iron]

Yup

[uncut holly]

Yeah it wouldve worked

Presumeably because theres no way Silk is ever getting out so why struggle

[humble iron]

I feel like portal to the void is a plan that pretty much kills anyone

[ember river]

They didn't expect:

1. Lace to intervene
2. GMS to care that much to protect her
3. GMS to be strong enough to oppose void for that long

[vale jetty]

So there's a chance we didn't have to save Lace, as it's possible that Silk would just lose the fight eventually

[ember river]

Still though, I feel like verdania, even though it happened before the Haunting, was the most recent of them all

[vale jetty]

And the world wouldn't collapse

[humble iron]

Not without destroying the whole kingdom in the process

[ember river]

Wait no, ants fell during the haunting

[uncut holly]

The oldest moment in the Timeline of Pharloom that I know of so far besides the Void Civilization which is more of a cameo in Pharloom showing how far they went. But the oldest that I know is The Marrow, and the supposed ancestors who died in The Marrow, we dont know anything else.

Just that at the entrance of The Marrow theres a sign saying pay respect to the great ancestors

[lucid pasture]

she probably would have died with time and not be able to resist anymore but i doubt it would be faster than entire pharloom died lol

[ember river]

Silk would lose, but in how much time it's unclear. If a week passed it may have worked out, if it was 10 years of constant struggle it would have been obliteration

[ember river]

I am trying to put into place the heart civilizations

Excluding nyleth because I genuinely have no idea about that

[humble iron]

Also if she dies in that fashion will the tendrils retreat or does that need to be a conscious decision from GMS

[ember river]

They would probably wither anyways

[humble iron]

Nyleth is just a monarch like the other 2 imo, that gave birth to the other white flower creatures

[ember river]

Like radiance veins in EtV

[ember river]

Yeah, but shellwood isn't in disrepair, or dead, or anything

[lucid pasture]

i think they were all alive during citadel era. the only one that is confusing is khann? The rest not. The question is moreso how did citsdel fuck them, if it was weavers or gms, but its hard to get to a conclusion as we repeated many times alr lol

[humble iron]

considering Lace doesn't disintegrate when GMS dies, the silk that conducts the void probably wouldn't

[uncut holly]

All we know about Nyleth is that, at some point they died. When they where alive they stopped the Stick Bugs from eatting people, when they died they started doing that. We know the Weavers hated Stick Bugs, and that the Weaver buried there was prayed to, in order to stave off being eatten by Stick Bugs.

[ember river]

I don't think Khann ever got to see the citadel

Personal belief

[uncut holly]

Also that Sister Splinter has a Needolin quote saying that they are the last

[ember river]

Lace is made of silk, but it's its own being

[uncut holly]

whatever that means

[ember river]

Then yes, the other two definetely managed to see it

[lucid pasture]

the thing it that we have some of their civilization bugs in memorium soo
maybe they found them lost somewhere but idk

[vale jetty]

So the void didn't actually want to destroy the world, it just wanted to consume Silk and all the void tendrils we see is the void colouring of Silk's webs and everything where's her silk becomes voidy. Void is unintentionally destroying the world here, as there still is the Silk in the world and Grandmother is tied to it, while fighting for her life. Is that correct?

[ember river]

It's said they were modified to attempt to upkeep them

[ember river]

The void doesn't want anything, it just consumes

[silk dirge]

so they made getting stick bugged canon

[humble iron]

that's actually a fair point because the coral dudes are extinct so how would they obtain giant variants if the smaller ones were dead

[lucid pasture]

i mean yea modified because of the changing enviroment and shit but they still have to be gotten from somrwhere

[uncut holly]

Basically yeah

[ember river]

That is fair

[uncut holly]

The Stick Bugs werent a problem when Nyleth was still alive

[silk dirge]

https://tenor.com/view/get-stick-bugged-lol-stick-bug-stick-bugged-get-stick-bugged-bee-swarm-simulator-gif-26063005

stick bugs after nyleth dies:

[humble iron]

To be honest with Nyleth's screeches I have troubles imagining her not straight up killing people that enter shellwood lol

Her silk is soul

[uncut holly]

Apparently with the journal entry she ensured people safe passage through her leaves

[humble iron]

not imbued

[lucid pasture]

her hunter journal is literally abouther helping pilgrims lol

[humble iron]

I am aware. I am saying it's hard to imagine

hence why the term imagine

[uncut holly]

Wait a minute do we know its specifically Pilgrims? Or just people?

[lucid pasture]

i see

[coral wren]

Why do we have a soul sanctum lore channel

[uncut holly]

Because if its Pilgrims that dates it to the start of the Citadel of Song by the Weavers

[lucid pasture]

iirc it literally says pilgrims

[uncut holly]

Oh

So Weavers might have killed them

Or something killed them

[humble iron]

Doesn't that mean that it made a deal with the citadel bug to let pilgrims through then ?

[uncut holly]

I dont think so, all we know is that they just ensured safe passage

[vale jetty]

Was GMS an active ruler of Pharloom ar some point? Or all the bugs of citadel remember her as a cocoon filling only?

[brave mortar]

was radiance a palre being?

[uncut holly]

Radiance wasnt a Pale Being

[brave mortar]

ok

[uncut holly]

They where powerful

[humble iron]

surely in exchange for something

[ember river]

Maybe? I've always assumed it was different

[brave mortar]

i know that

[humble iron]

Radiance's orange essence seems to indicate it is not a pale being

[ember river]

They were an active ruler before the Citadel was built, when she created the Weavers

[uncut holly]

I havent found any other real lore on Nyleth other then that shes dead, she died somehow, and that the Stick Bugs started eatting people without her protection over them.

[ember river]

What a mess nyleth lore is

[uncut holly]

Also Sister Splinter Quotes say that she is the "Last" what Sister Splinters position is is unknown

[humble iron]

It's not a mess if there's nothing 😭

[ember river]

It's a giant black void with two puzzle pieces that don't even join together

[vale jetty]

Oh, so citadel was made with no Silk intention? Like citadel was a church build for the god they did believe in

[uncut holly]

Oh and we also know how much the Weavers hate Stick Bugs

[brave mortar]

the canon ending to hk was one of the godmaster endings yeah?

[ember river]

No, the citadel was made as a prison for GMS

By weavers

[humble iron]

I mean apparently she's just an overgrown splinterback? According to the journal she just got to feed enough to grow fat

[ember river]

Then weavers were usurped by conductors and their lot

[brave mortar]

wait really?

[ember river]

Yup, mask maker tells us as much

[uncut holly]

Wait what?

[lucid pasture]

i could be wrong about pilgrims and nyleth TBH but that information was ingrained in my brain from somewhere lol

[humble iron]

The whole musical aspect is to keep GMS sleeping

[brave mortar]

oh i see

[uncut holly]

Sister Splinters journal entry if i remember is all about her loving to eat Pilgrims

[humble iron]

until they decided to fucking put silk in their bodies like idiots

[brave mortar]

thats so cool

[ember river]

Then the citadel bugs sought immortality experimenting with silk

And the rest is history

[vale jetty]

Holy shit, I didn't understand shit of this game

[ember river]

Yep she ate a lot of people so she grew fat

[brave mortar]

silksong lroe is so cool

[scenic stirrup]

💀💀💀💀 didnt think beating the green prince bosss would kill him in real life also

Wtf thats so tragic i feel really bad

[vale jetty]

I never assumed citadel being something to actually oppose Silk

[scenic stirrup]

That is a hate crime basically

[humble iron]

actually the pilgrim part seems to directly opposes the nyleth one that's fun

[ember river]

The entire tragedy of their people goes full circle to being funny again

[humble iron]

one ensures safe passage, the other ensures no one passes through

[ember river]

He had an idyllic life and then got plunged into hell overnight

[scenic stirrup]

Can i just go for other hearts instead and give his back to his body 😭

[ember river]

You aren't even meant to grab his heart

[brave mortar]

Is hornet void?

[ember river]

No

[humble iron]

That's why the symbol of the citadel is the weaver with a harp, and not some GMS effigy

[brave mortar]

i know

100% waifu

[ember river]

It's not a weaver actually

The symbol of pharloom is the cradle prison

[vale jetty]

Wait what

[humble iron]

it is in the cutscene

[ember river]

You can see that harp shape surrounding the GMS cocoon too

[humble iron]

before the cradle prison was made we saw a cutscene where a weaver is playing the harp and it makes that exact shape

[quartz flicker]

Does anyone have a good link to a gallery of Silksong NPCs?

[humble iron]

I would think that the prison was made after that

[scenic stirrup]

I never got kidnapped 💀 i didnt see hornet do the funny kill

[ember river]

Maybe so, but the golden thing everyone uses has stripes, not eyes, like the coccoon

[neat sandal]

free him from his grief
I think only karmelita not necessary to die

[humble iron]

The only symbol of GMS we see in the citadel is the symbol of whiteward which is such good foreshadowing as to what role it played

[brave mortar]

does ghost control all the void after godmaster? cause if he does why would he let it even attack hornet?

[vale jetty]

It's much more complicated than I thought. I really assumed that all choir guys and girls were praising and working for Silk favor even BEFORE the haunting

[scenic stirrup]

Theres more fish in the sea dawg theres at least 1 more gay mantises in the hollow knight world

😔

[ember river]

They were

The choir was devoted to a religion they didn't know would break their minds

[foggy fractal]

https://mega.nz/folder/nu5GjLxD#JB92f7G2YKa1ms9i6erftw heres the document of every sprite in game too

[vale jetty]

But they were maintaining their prison and machinery to keep her asleep

[ember river]

That's why the last words of the Pontiff were "we were praying for their chains" and shit

[ember river]

I'm not sure how much truth there is to that

[lucid pasture]

what pontiff

[ember river]

The dead archivist with the vaultkeeper song cylinder

[vale jetty]

Are we sure that weavers built the citadel?

[rain spindle]

how can we tell if a pilgrim is haunted

[wild falcon]

Is there any answer to why GMS needed hornet?

[rain spindle]

mask makers confirm

[rain spindle]

she was collecting weavers

[ember river]

Yes, originally as a prison as I said

[vale jetty]

Ohhhh

[foggy fractal]

attack first ask questions later trust

[humble iron]

To me she needed the silk for Lace

[vale jetty]

Okay, so the bugs that found the citadel after weavers left created a new religion and treated citadel as a church to praise their god, Silk resting in the cradle right?

[ember river]

She has infinite silk

[wild falcon]

Unreasonable, GMS is the main source and creator of silk

[ember river]

She is the source of all silk in pharloom

[humble iron]

Not infinite soul, that has been stated before

If she had infinite silk the void wouldn't be a problem

[rain spindle]

who created the mantises and ants tho

[uncut holly]

The tells for if bosses are haunted is very confusing. Like Craw Father gives you an invitation, but he also has a big death animation that is shared by quite a few bosses, its 1 where theres white mist, it could just be aesthetic

[ember river]

Over time they do have infinite, think a generator making 1 kW but someone consuming 1.1kW

It is going to drain whatever battery you have dry eventually

[rain spindle]

craw father wanted to punish hornet for unleashing void in the kingdom

[wild falcon]

I'm pretty sure craw father puts you on a trial for bringing pharloom on brink on death, he is not haunted

[humble iron]

Isn't Lace stated to take a ton of silk to maintain tho

[uncut holly]

Yeah im pretty sure Craw Father is not haunted

[quartz flicker]

we don't see any other things like this around Pharloon, right?

[rain spindle]

hornet implies they come from the same source

[ember river]

I mean the void's consumption is much faster than the generation, lace probably was expensive to upkeep but ultimately a negligible expense for GMS

[lucid pasture]

I dont think she does doesnt she only say they are similar?

[ember river]

Also this brings the question

[rain spindle]

hunters journal for that lancer ant

[ember river]

How will lace survive now, without silk

[uncut holly]

I mean we know the Mantis's long predated Hallownest itself

[rain spindle]

hornet ig

[humble iron]

Yeah, his whole thing is actually pretty reasonable considering Hornet is responsible for the destruction of their world

[uncut holly]

They have a very rich and old history

[ember river]

Every tribe predated hallownest

[lucid pasture]

hornet will keep hitting people to produce silk and give to lace

[ember river]

The mosskin, the shrooms and moths

[uncut holly]

I mean yeah, but specifically before Hallownest as a place existed. However this comes from Mossbag

[humble iron]

I wouldn't be surprised if Shakra and the Mantises had common ancestry, one of her warcries is the same as the mantis lords iirc

[uncut holly]

I dont think we know anything about Shakras tribe except that their cartographers

[humble iron]

The place always existed it didn't suddenly pop into existence

[ember river]

I've seen people throw around the theory that Elder Hu comes from Shakra's tribe and I like it

[uncut holly]

Yeah its possible, the Shakra boss fight has similar attacks

[meager badger]

How much time passed between acts 2 and 3?

[humble iron]

Elder Hu looks nothing like her and seems not to know about hunter customs considering he got destroyed by the mantises

[ember river]

Not much

[rain spindle]

elder hu

[rain spindle]

bro its the mantises

he lasted more than shakra probably would

[ember river]

He wears a similar attire and also uses rings, he was more of a healer according to the lore I guess

[lucid pasture]

Elder Hu is round and cute like shakra master tho!!

[ember river]

Shakra and her mother are amongst the strongest of her tribe anyways

[fair zealot]

his lack of understanding of the mantises was due to the infection anyway

[uncut holly]

In the Shakra boss fight she uses similar ring attacks with her side ways dash

As Elder Hu

[humble iron]

I guess the color scheme ?

[rain spindle]

the rings

[ember river]

And the ring theme

[humble iron]

Even then if he came from a warrior tribe I feel like he would be ready for battle ?

[rain spindle]

he was

[humble iron]

The rings aren't the same type at all though

[uncut holly]

I believe its the attack that Shakra does in her boss fight itself that is the best evidence. She does a side ways dash with 3 big rings similar to Elder Hu's but more vibrant

[rain spindle]

he only died cause the mantises ganged up on him

[fair zealot]

yeah but he was infected, against the whole entire mantis tribe

[humble iron]

I forgor

[foggy fractal]

don't forget about

[fair zealot]

in addition to the rings there's also the orb necklace which is reminiscent of shakra's master's weapon

[uncut holly]

For some reason people exclude Shakras boss fight from the boss compilation, aswell as Garmonds earlier fight in the Citadel

Something about both of those fights is they arent to the death, you live and they wont kill you.

[ember river]

They are optional and heavily quest dependant, I didn't fight either

[uncut holly]

They do regen all their HP though if you "die"

[humble iron]

Wouldn't that imply that Elder Hu knew Shakra's mentor then ?

Because her mentor created the rings

[lucid pasture]

You can fight garmond in citadel??

[runic musk]

Yea

[ember river]

Elder Hu lived long before her though

[lucid pasture]

woah

[uncut holly]

Yeah you can fight Garmond at the citade, and you can fight Shakra in Act 3

[quiet narwhal]

Wha??

[runic musk]

Spar with him in act 2

Mercy kill in act 3

[humble iron]

The rings are devised by Shakra's mentor, she literally says it

[fair zealot]

maybe that's why the rings are different then :p

[lucid pasture]

i didnt know, it would have made the fight in act 3 more impactful

[ember river]

I was arguing as to how Elder Hu can't know Shakra's mentor at all

[uncut holly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0kZl7AyHnE

[rain spindle]

is shakra stronger than garmond

[humble iron]

Idk to me elder hu just doesn't fit being part of Shakra's tribe

[uncut holly]

Seems to actually be a tough boss

[humble iron]

he's not the same species that's for sure

[whole hawk]

Really beginning to appreciate the world design of Pharloom. Just cements how much of an alien unnatural structure the Citadel is and how it completely choked out the world.

[ember river]

Fair. It's just random speculation