sk-lore

[uncut holly]

The Weavers weave on Silk, this is the same as doing Soul Magic but with Soul magic you need a person to focus. Silk is able to do it by itself its wireless its automated, its very diverse

[maiden meteor]

GMS is basically only responsible for haunting as far as we know

Citadel was conceived by weavers

[ember river]

That makes zero sense

[potent patio]

Wait I just realized, gms has a similar power to the pk. Being able to give bugs minds. (As seen in the first sinner cutscene)

[ember river]

Kingsmoulds and wingsmoulds are made from soul and void and they work fine

[uncut holly]

Ok so Snail Shamans know how to bend Soul to make Spirits that is basically magic, they can do alot of things with this.

[maiden meteor]

it seems to be universal HB skill

[uncut holly]

Silk is just Soul, its form has been changed but it is just Soul

[austere aurora]

yeah theyre both pale beings

[maiden meteor]

Unn and Rad could do it too

[uncut holly]

Silk can be weaved on to make spells, this is essentially the same as Soul Magic

[ember river]

Yes you can cast magic with soul, and since silk is essentially woven soul you can also cast spells with silk

[potent patio]

Probably just a pale being thing

[uncut holly]

But Soul Magic you need a person

With Silk you can make a Seal, a Rune, something that doesnt need a person

[ember river]

You can make seals with soul too

The pale king placed a LOT of seals

[potent patio]

Isn’t it basically soul infused into silk?

[uncut holly]

Yeah but Pale King uses Silk

[ember river]

Silk is pretty much condensed soul

[uncut holly]

A lot of Silk

[potent patio]

Oh yeaaah

[uncut holly]

If you look at the Ancient Basin Tram theres a ton of Silk Spools in the background

[ember river]

The pale king has silk laying around, that's a stupid think to look at to explain how he does things

[uncut holly]

He has it specifically in the Kings Workshop

[austere aurora]

silk is a wire through which soul is transmitted

[potent patio]

Do we ever see more of the wyrms?

[uncut holly]

It explains it well

[ember river]

There's zero reason to believe the dreamers seals can't be cast by him

[uncut holly]

Dreams are different

[ember river]

Well the abyss seal

I don't care which

[uncut holly]

That could just be the Kings power

He seemingly can do various things in the Dream Realm, and with Silk. He seems to dabble in everything

[ember river]

Everyone can manipulate silk and soul

[uncut holly]

But we know that things like the Hollow Knight Seal that is Silk

[ember river]

Not everyone can do that unscathed

[ember river]

What hollow knight seal, what on earth are you talking about

[uncut holly]

Not everyone can they need to be taught

[potent patio]

Are the godseekers like the weavers? Created by higher beings for worship or otherwise

[ember river]

Unknown

[uncut holly]

So in the Weavers Nest thers a unfinished Seal, we see this Seal several times in the Kings Palace. And when in the Hollow Knight fight this same Seal blocks the exit

[potent patio]

Is it the shade lord that is summoned when the trap is sprung in silksong?

[uncut holly]

We know the Weavers did help make the Black Egg they seemingly contributed Seals

[ember river]

It's just the void

I don't think they summon the knight explicitly

[maiden meteor]

There’s also a seal in cast off shell which I don’t think would be placed so late in Hallownest’s history

[uncut holly]

The Snail Shamans Trap isnt actually them using void, its a portal made of Soul they push GMS through

[maiden meteor]

and Dreamers can also create seals as shown in Grounds

[uncut holly]

The portal just leads to the Void

[lusty estuary]

The weavers' assistance was probably part of the deal between herrah and pk tbh

[quartz flicker]

The Godseekers remain extremely enigmatic. We don't even know how the big boi got stuck in that coffin thing and dumped in the trash heap.

[open dragon]

How much you guys wanna bet that for Silksong's final dlc we're gonna get like a harder version of GMS as the true final boss for that dlc and its gonna be like Empress Silk or smth lmao

[uncut holly]

I think the Seals made by Dreams are different, the Seals protecting their corpse from being physically harmed, that might be Silk because its White

[ember river]

That'd be kinda boring

[potent patio]

I feel like the shade lord is just the void escaping from the knight’s shell after being awoken and empowered by the godseekers ritual

[open dragon]

Shade Lord would be an amazing superboss option too

[uncut holly]

Like in the Dream world theres various things like the seals that block you from getting out of the Dream Boss Rematches with Lost Kin ETC

[potent patio]

Real

[lusty estuary]

If they do another godhome in silksong I hope the pantheons don't have refights lol

[maiden meteor]

Interestingly enough coffin itself seems to be Godseekers’ design

[ember river]

That creature, void given focus is essentially the prime form of the knight's shade with the void heart

[maiden meteor]

but why would they lock themselves

[ember river]

The most raw representation of their power

[open dragon]

I just wanna fight like First Sinner, Karmelita all over again without spending another 20 hours of my life to rematch them again lol

[maiden meteor]

Maybe godseekers’ coffin was like a cocoon

but PK found it, locked it up and threw it away

[craggy smelt]

they didn't, they mention hibernation was forced upon them

[uncut holly]

So the whole White Flies thing, is ive been trying to figure out the significance of the White Flies. They seemingly are important, 1 lands on the cage that gives Hornet the power to break out. The flies lead you out of the Mist and seemingly know way and are activated when you play for them. And every time one of the Grapple Robots dies a White Fly comes out

[potent patio]

Yeah ig If my theory was correct they would say void unleashed instead

[maiden meteor]

Pharloom’s butterflies seem to be silk constructs

[uncut holly]

Yeah, I think their the souls of the people that got put into the robots

Because they are found in the robots when you destroy them

[versed elk]

either pharloom's got tiny butterflies or the bugs are massive

[open dragon]

Actually yeah, Shade Lord would sound amazing as a superboss, its like the Lost Lace fight but like crank it up to 1000 lol

[ember river]

It's pretty much what you said

[potent patio]

Yeah why did the lumafly thing break Hornets cell?

[ember river]

I just think that the void creature is essentially still the knight

[uncut holly]

I dont think its a Lumafly

[potent patio]

Okay

[open dragon]

Make the Shade Lord the size as the 4th chorus and GMS and we're golden

[uncut holly]

Lumaflies look different that thing had a tail

[arctic mountain]

the butterfly was probably sent by gms if its a silk construct

[potent patio]

Yeah but idk what else to call it

[ember river]

You're overthinking the silk and soul thing

[uncut holly]

Maybe White Fly, Silk Fly?

[craggy smelt]

I think they're called gleamflies

[uncut holly]

The Silk and Soul thing is real

Soul is Silk, GMS is a giant Soul Battery

[open dragon]

Was the little butterfly that freed Hornet an accident or did it free hornet because its commanded too?

[ember river]

I know it's fucking real, the point of pale things is they are filled to the brim with soul

[quartz flicker]

nah, we see Lace controlling a few of them before her first fight

[ember river]

What's not real is all that jank about wireless magic or whatever

[potent patio]

Why? Didn’t she order hornets capture?

[craggy smelt]

its implied to be from Lace, because she didn't want Hornet to reach the Citadel

[uncut holly]

It makes alot of sense if thats what it is, because thats how it acts. And we know its related to Soul so it makes a lot of sense

[ember river]

It's much larger than that though

[open dragon]

Gotta love our rebellious girl like that

[quartz flicker]

It's strongly implied that Lace sent the fly that dispelled the rune

[versed elk]

yh she doesnt want to be replaced by hornet

[ember river]

"wireless magic" doesn't make any sense

As a concept

[open dragon]

Pull a father of flames, make me pogo up to the shadelord lmao

[uncut holly]

All the Silk Seals and things we have seen seen have just been Soul Magic done through Silk so their able to do things with it

[potent patio]

Why are the shamans obsessed with the void?

[ember river]

We aren't fighting that thing

[arctic mountain]

if something doesnt make sense just chalk it up to soul bug magic being weird

[ember river]

Much less beating it

[craggy smelt]

its very powerful, and they like power

[uncut holly]

I used the term Wireless Magic when specifically talking about the fact that all Soul Magic we see needs a person to be actively focussing to use it

Hence Wireless Soul Magic

[potent patio]

Makes sense

[ember river]

Yeah so what, there's no confirmation that you can't do the same thing with normal magic

[uncut holly]

Wireless as in no person there is no literal wire

We dont ever see it, all Soul magic we ever see in the entirety of Hollow Knight someone must focus it

With the exception of Seals but we know those are Silk

[versed elk]

but its only been powerful since the knight took control, if it was strong before why not beat radiance on its own

[potent patio]

But then why didn’t they experiment with silk?

[uncut holly]

And Dreams which are its own thing seemingly able to make things

[ember river]

With the exception of a single seal that's repeated and half confirmed to be made by weavers you mean

Dreams use Essence, not silk

[uncut holly]

Never said Dreams where silk ever

[ember river]

They can already cast soul

[uncut holly]

We can infer all of the Seals ever made have been Silk

We never see Soul used for Seal making

[ember river]

The pale king's carcass

The abyss seal

[uncut holly]

Those are unqiue because that is likely just the Pale King himself

[ember river]

Not all lore is displayed right in front of your face

[uncut holly]

Those Seals are different in design than the Silk ones

Whats that supposed to mean?

It makes logical sense and it seems to be apart of the world building

[craggy smelt]

on its own its docile, but it still has great potential - PK says as much
its also dangerous when provoked
TK doesn't seem to be controlling the Void in Pharloom, and it still had the power to bind GMS when used in a spell
Radiance never really seemed to engage with it directly, at least as far as Hallownest was concerned

[ember river]

That the lack of confirmation doesn't mean confirmation of negation

It may be true, it may be complete bullshit

[edgy river]

The seal on Egg Head temple from the dreamers?

[uncut holly]

That doesnt make any sense, we see Silk act this way and we know its Soul. Therefore Silk is Soul magic but more flexible because it is the same thing just in a different form. And we know Silk doesnt need a person to physically be there to focus it

[ember river]

Also isn't the egg constructed by the ancient civilizatoin?

[uncut holly]

So its exactly what i was saying it was

[ember river]

You say it's more flexible and yet a lot of things soul can do silk cannot

[uncut holly]

Black Egg isnt ancient civ

[maiden meteor]

silk could be used for many things

it was even used to make scrolls

[silk dirge]

tbf we dont know how the black egg formed

[uncut holly]

Silk does different things but alot of things Silk can do Soul cannot

[edgy river]

Ik there are silk seals used as well since there are seals of bindings with the HKs face ok Hallownest, but if it was just that no need for lurien/monomom

[ember river]

I wonder what their clothing is made out of

[uncut holly]

Its just different, Silk is used for when a person isnt physically present

[silk dirge]

bc the black egg is clearly made of void right

[uncut holly]

Also people cant make Silk so thats why we dont see it used in the same way as Soul

[ember river]

If only there was some sort of thread we could sew 🤔

[uncut holly]

Only Weavers can, and we see them use it

[silk dirge]

but like its weird bc void is usually not portrayed as being a solid material

[uncut holly]

Because First Sinner

[silk dirge]

and the black egg looks very solid

[maiden meteor]

King could probably shape void i to a lot of things

[edgy river]

We really don't know

[ember river]

Void-adjacent

[uncut holly]

Yeah

[maiden meteor]

We see like mini black egg in White Palace after throne room

[quartz flicker]

The seal in the Temple was partially designed by Monomon and the Weavers helped build it.

[edgy river]

It's hornet says it would drain her so it's pretty likely void. To an extent it's a safe assumption imo

[uncut holly]

Black Egg has bindings that seem to drain anyone who isnt a Vessel. Probably because to not be drained in there you need to have a similar body composition to the Hollow Knight because its meant to kill anything that isnt like the Hollow Knight

[ember river]

I mean something void-adjacent, that can produce or keep void inside

[maiden meteor]

Egg also dissolves completely upon Radiance’s death

[ember river]

It does dissolve after the radiance's death and seep down below so it might just be void made solid

[uncut holly]

Black Egg is likely void related

Alot of things went into making the Black Egg

[ember river]

Void's various forms is much more esoteric

[edgy river]

This, the egg melts just like the knight into liquid

[ember river]

Likely is a severe understatement

[edgy river]

We dunno if it was PK who did it or he just used a already existing structure made by ancient civ tho

[craggy smelt]

the interior of the Black Egg matches ancient civilization style construction found elsewhere
there's a lot of spells and things in there from the pale king though

[uncut holly]

I wouldnt put it past Pale King for it to be something their able to do

[maiden meteor]

I think it’s interesting we also see void slip off of lanterns in the egg temple

implying it has covered them for some reason

[versed elk]

isnt the black egg temple itself also a huge bug

[vale jetty]

I'm kinda afraid to speak this kind of opinion, but did anyone else feel that Act 3 is kinda... fanficcy? Don't get me wrong, I've cried a couple of times and were sitting at the edge of my sofa during most relevant moments, but overall it felt like a fan would write the story...
First of all, whole snail shamans and "trap" felt like a easy excuse to include void in this game. It wouldn't be there if not their plan, which actually happened by accident (they didn't know Hornet is going to appear in the kingdom, right?)
The "void cataclysm" felt a bit off... I mean, we saw a lot of different "infections" and hauntings in HK series, but this time it felt a bit... forced?
The Everbloom destruction in void lake... I felt like it just had to happen so we can see the Knight and other vessels. If that wouldn't happen and the flower would endure, the whole ending cutscene would be very... meh? Hornet and Lace would just escape and that's it.
There's more to it, but don't want to put a wall of text here.
Please don't be harsh! I really loved the game and it's absolutely the best thing I ever played. Just not 100% satisfied with lore of this game (but still kinda love it)

[potent patio]

What’s the difference between pale and higher beings?

[uncut holly]

Pale King seems to be incredibly well versed in everything. He used dreams, he used Silk, he used his own power on occasion.

And he used Void

We dont know the different between Pale Beings and Higher Beings, its theorized that they might be stronger but we really dont know.

We only know of 3 Pale Beings. Pale King, White Lady, and Grand Mother Silk

[maiden meteor]

I think ending works because most of stuff was already established. We already know Everbloom’s ability to repel void isn’t absolute from Godhome ending

[vale jetty]

Is there anyone else who expected a tiny bit more from lore/story?

[maiden meteor]

so it giving out in critical moment creates pretty cool tension

and then we have a massive twist

[versed elk]

yea i feel like this game has way less lore compared to first one

cus it mostly builds on prev stuff

[uncut holly]

Oh no it definitely has tons ot lore we just dont know it. There is buckets loads

[potent patio]

Maybe it’s the difference between wanting to rule or not? I mean we now know herra, the queen of deep nest was made from one and Hornet even says she has an instinct to rule

[maiden meteor]

I feel exactly opposite

because Pharloom is a new kingdom so it has a lot of completely new lore

[versed elk]

also all the everbloom stuff was dlc content in hk so expect more stuff in dlcs

[uncut holly]

The Marrow is a site to Pharlooms great ancestors and you are told to pay your respect by a sign when entering for those who sacrificed themself to make this kingdom possible

What the heck happened there we dont know

[vale jetty]

Yeah, I don't think there's less lore, but I feel like it's not as interesting and more simply written

[maiden meteor]

basically we get intertwined lore only in Act 3

[craggy smelt]

I can understand how people might feel like that
criticism is valid

[ember river]

Yeah I get what you mean
I still think the story was hinting towards that if you paid attention to the fact that these guys are snail shamans and are talking about getting rid of a higher being.
But the changes to enemies are meh in their implementation and you get locked of a bunch of areas with no prior warning.
I still like it a lot though

[uncut holly]

There absolutely is not less lore, ive been in the lore trying to figure things out

I can give a general idea of the story and whats been established so far

[ember river]

I disagree, I really like some of the new stuff they added

[edgy river]

I feel like act 3 was planned from the start and void was always meant to be relevant to some capacity and it was only made "hidden" because it would be nicer for new players to have a cleaner story

TC had already shown interest in explore more about void and specifically dive into the void sea in HK on the past and I do feel like its something they didn't put in just to please fans

But i get your views and feel it was a strange decision to make the whole story barely touch in HK while act 3 is literally all about the connections to the old game. And basically everything about the everbloom os pretty forced imo as well

[misty umbra]

cough Greyroot cough

[craggy smelt]

there were a few things I'd hoped we get more lore on that we didn't (stuff about Wyrms and Roots)

[ember river]

That thing is way more interesting than people give it credit for

[maiden meteor]

I’d say Pharloom’s lore is also a bit more contained cause it ultimately ties to Citadel

while Hallownest was all over the place imo

[ember river]

We got some root lore

[edgy river]

And technically hornet kindof, as well as the vessels

[ember river]

But wyrms are best kept mysterious

[ember river]

The vessels are not pale beings

[misty umbra]

Yeah i really just want to know what the hell is going on with that

[maiden meteor]

Wyrms are extinct so idk if there would be point exploring them

[potent patio]

And the weavers or at least lace

[uncut holly]

We dont know Greyroot but we know that Greyroot is powerful. Greyroot specifically is able to ignore everything related to Silk. You cant read their mind, when the Flies capture you to take you to The Slab if you have Greyroot when you black out you wake up and Greyroot broke out of the cage for you killed and calcified the fly and stuck you up in the air a little bit.

[ember river]

Where is it said that they're extinct

[plush bridge]

Would they not be given they are literally the spawn of two of them?

[edgy river]

They are children from 2 pale beings

[ember river]

They were consumed by the void

[vale jetty]

Yeah, Act 1 and 2 didn't touch HK story at all (with small exceptions), while 3rd is a wild ride

[ember river]

That alters their nature on a fundamental level

[potent patio]

Belleater is a wyrm trust

[misty umbra]

Wait that's a thing?

[craggy smelt]

yeah, but did we though?
certainly nothing about the specific kind of Root that White Lady is

[uncut holly]

Greyroot also forcefully stops Hornet from entering the Void Sea before their removed. Greyroot is related to White Lady atleast species wise.

Yep

[versed elk]

hornet casually killing wyrms by spamming poison traps 😎

[uncut holly]

We dont know if Greyroot is a Higher Being. I think their a Higher Being though. It seems like they are meant to be a twist on White Lady although maybe not as powerful, Higher Being is a status of power though and I definitely think their on the spectrum. They just become more weaker when in parasite form.

[ember river]

Oh yeah bardoon says that

[ember river]

I think they're just a parasite that can end up ascending if they get lucky

[uncut holly]

Its not confirmed their a Higher Being its just a personal theory. They definitely are powerful though

[ember river]

They aren't that powerful without the parasite thing

[maiden meteor]

I don’t think Greyroot ever intended to ascend

[ember river]

Again, stop bringing silk into everything

[versed elk]

i think it just depends on their host

[uncut holly]

They are, they overpower Hornet. And even as a Parasite they can do alot

[potent patio]

Maybe wyrms kinda worked like earth worms back when they were alive? Basically fertilizing areas in the wastelands between kingdoms and making small islands of civilizations?

[ember river]

I think greyroot just planned to infect you and kill you in that tree with the other bugs to renew itself

[maiden meteor]

yeah

[uncut holly]

When not a parasite all we see Greyroot do, is deny you from reading their mind, and also parasitize you

[ember river]

But due to your superior nature you could survive

[maiden meteor]

and they also can be mostly removed by a bunch of sharp needles

[ember river]

Then if you get to GMS it can actually overpower both your weaknesses and ascend

[ember river]

The horror, 15 sharp things

[versed elk]

its more like you both are in a super exposed state then imo

[misty umbra]

Well... Maybe it is actually since they said that Hornet is strong. Could be that they booked on her killing gms with the parasite inside of her.

[ember river]

Pretty much, yes

[uncut holly]

When as a parasite, they forcefully stop you from entering the Abyss, they break out of the sealed cage and kill a fly for you, they make Eva freak out claiming they wont take their power too and putting up a defense shield around themself, they also get the Cursed Ending.

I might be missing some things they do

[maiden meteor]

I think Greyroot mostly acts by element of surprise

[versed elk]

i think it actually has no idea of anything and just wants to spread

[graceful wigeon]

You know...

On one hand, I am very happy for Silksong being a full-fledged sequel with its own world and what not. It's much better than the original DLC promise.

I am absolutely not complaining about that.

But since what we got is a sequel instead of the original DLC prequel promise... I can't help but wonder what the prequel's plot and lore was going to be. And what Hornet's journey, which was originally going to be playable but is now forever off-screen, entailed.

[potent patio]

How do I get this greyroot lore?

[uncut holly]

I mean we know one thing for a fact is that Greyroot is immune to all Silk related things.

[maiden meteor]

it waits all the way until both GMS and Hornet are exhausted to attack

[ember river]

Get infected and speak with things

[uncut holly]

They break out of the binded cage, and they stop you from reading their mind

[ember river]

What binded cage

[uncut holly]

So when the flies put you in a cage

[ember river]

That's not binded

That's just a normal cage

[uncut holly]

If you have Greyroot they break you out of it, turn the fly into a statue and tangle you

No its binded you can see it glow

[versed elk]

u can see the white runes for a bit when u get captured

[maiden meteor]

mind these cages also seem weak enough for Hornet to get out with bare hands after a while

[uncut holly]

We know its binded actually, the transcripts from the people sent to retrieve you from Hallownest, straight up say use a binded cage and all the cages seem to have the same bindings

Yeah the bindings on the cage seem to not be able to hold Hornet forever, and that seems to only occur upon entering Pharloom

[ember river]

The same as the ones in the starting sequence?

[ember river]

that's the normal cage

[uncut holly]

Yeah

[left oyster]

Blackbarrens (From eighth part weaver cage) DEFINITELY feels related to the Blackwyrm

[maiden meteor]

I assume Citadel’s seals are just weaker than Hallownest’s

[uncut holly]

No its the same ones from the starting sequence, they have glowing runes and are deliberately said in game to be binded via the transcript

[maiden meteor]

probably being inferior to genuine Weaver design

[left oyster]

Perhaps another land that was ruled by the Blackwyrm and went to war with Hallownest and lost very very hard

[versed elk]

they are made of different stuff and different purpose

[ember river]

what transcript

[uncut holly]

You can find a transcript from the people who captured Hornet its an arrest warrant saying to use a binding cage to trap Hornet

[ember river]

Yeah, that's the starting one, not for wardenflies fucks sakes

[uncut holly]

Trust me, theres alot of stuff pointing towards this cage being binded

[versed elk]

i wonder how hornet even gets captured, i thought she was chilling with the hollow knight in hallownest

[ember river]

Wardenflies aren't even considered as part of the chorus, they are subservants bred to obey and jail

[uncut holly]

Its the same symbols its a glowing cage when you try to break out you cant because it glows the same way

They arent part of the chorus but they have cages and they use them

[ember river]

And then you punch it open like it's nothing

And you can break them in two hits with your needle anyways

[graceful wigeon]

Given how the wardenflies can capture you? My guess is that it involved a cheap shot, putting her in the cage, and running as fast as they could before Hollow could give pursuit.

[uncut holly]

After you are taken there because of the seal, we already established that it cant hold Hornet forever

[potent patio]

How does one do that?

[uncut holly]

Hornet cannot break out of it like its nothing because when you are put in a cage you hit the cage wall and a seal pops up stopping you from doing anything

[ember river]

bring the twisted bud to greyroot

[left oyster]

Since Shade Lord is confirmed by Sister of the Void, playable THK for third game 🙏
They could do something really cool for the mechanics by giving em switchable prosthetic arms (kinda like Nero in DMC5)

[potent patio]

I’m so sorry, where is that?

[ember river]

access bilewater from vaults

[graceful wigeon]

If they do make a third game, Hollow as playable protagonist with changeable prosthetic arm would indeed be awesome.

[versed elk]

hallownest reconstruction simulator

[ember river]

And weird since it's 3 times taller than the rest

[potent patio]

Ok thats my plan for tomorrow

[graceful wigeon]

Of course, before we get to that, I'm curious if HK2 will get expansions like the first one did.

[left oyster]

Hollow Knight: Now It's The Name Of The Protagonist

[ember river]

You have established it after a series of unconfirmed assumptions while arbitrarily denying other unconfirmed assumptions you don't like

[versed elk]

theres an unused ending in the game files

so hopefully its used

[graceful wigeon]

Given they mentioned they had too much fun making it and went "Wow, we have to release this already instead of tinkering further", I'm hopeful for expansions.

[ember river]

At the very least we'll get a boss rush probably

[uncut holly]

I dunno what to tell you you can come up with any reason to deny whats there, but its the same seal as a cage at the beginning

And it does the same thing

The cage just physically looks different

[craggy smelt]

they did mention they plan to keep working on Silksong after release, so we're all anticipating some DLC

[uncut holly]

Also we dont KNOW anything else that could do that exact thing if it wasnt a binding

[ember river]

Wait what even was the point of this

[left oyster]

Needolin White Palace for the one of the expansions 🙏 (official versions of the great knights mayhaps)
could be called White Memory or something

[ember river]

Oh right the twisted bud thing

[uncut holly]

You said it wasnt a binding on the cage

[ember river]

yeah it's not strong

[uncut holly]

There is a binding, and it is very likely made of Silk, because we dont see any others

[ember river]

No, I asked why you said that cage was binded, someone else answered me with the actual seal and you mentioned the choral commandment that has nothing to do with it

[uncut holly]

I answered your question you just didnt pay attention or see it. Its fine lets move on

I dunno why you do this

[left oyster]

i didnt get the lore of wisp thicket why are those guys similar to the grimm troupe

[uncut holly]

Whisp Thicket from what we know, is a weird phenomena from a bug who wanted to me immolated in flames and got their wish granted

[ember river]

The lore of wips thicket is these guys worshipping a false god idol that gives them cool flame powers, the troupe is different

[edgy barn]

they aren´t in my opinion

[uncut holly]

By who we dont know, but their corpse is inside the Father of the Flame

[ember river]

The only theme they have in common is fire and red

[left oyster]

i see

[summer cypress]

Hi ! Just diving into the game, I was quite hermetic to any anouncement before, so I've got some basic questions... First, are SS events happening before or after hallownest's events ?

[edgy barn]

the simmilariy to grimm is only superficial

[ember river]

After

[left oyster]

after

[ember river]

If you haven't figured it out yet, I recommend you keep playing because we are heavy with spoilers of all acts

[spiral swift]

You should probably avoid this channel lol, you don't really spoil stuff her

[ember river]

Yeah

[summer cypress]

Then how was Hornet captured ? That was not at the end of the first game, was it ?

[ember river]

It's long, long after the first game

[summer cypress]

Sure not spoiling anything plus I'm not reading what you guys talk about aside my topic lol

[ember river]

Many normal bug lifetimes later, it's implied

[uncut holly]

Hornet was captured with a seal of binding put on the cage, in a person account from her in the journal entry for the bug type that captured her she mentions she killed several before being captured

[left oyster]

was it realllyyyyyy a seal of binding or did that nintendo person just get it wrong

[ember river]

Basically the higher being controlling pharloom is gathering descendants of the Weaver spiders and went after hornet without knowing she was half wyrm

[summer cypress]

Could those who captured her be the "shadowy figure" she faces we see at one of the endings of the first game ?

[ember river]

It's a binded cage

According to the commandment

[ember river]

Nah that's the Hollow Knight

[edgy barn]

keep playing the game, please.

[ember river]

That ending is the godhome ending, where the radiance is killed without stepping into the black egg

So the Hollow Knight is free

[summer cypress]

Okay, so that's still the case. So in the end, not much of a transition between the two games (yet, I suppose)

[ember river]

And back to being slightly-less-prime vessel

[left oyster]

SURE it's a seal used to bind, but it's not THE seal of binding

[ember river]

There isn't overlap but there's a significant timespan between the end of HK and the start of Silksong

[ember river]

I don't think it's the seal of binding, no

[urban plaza]

What if lace was the one that freed us during the start cutscene idk

[ember river]

That's a running theory

[edgy barn]

Do we even have a concensus on what is and what isn´t a seal of binding?

[left oyster]

to me the only seal of binding is the one related to THK

the path of pain bs

[edgy barn]

I know for sure that is one

[urban plaza]

I also believe sinners road gets its name because its a way for pilgrims to get to the citadel without being judged for their sins by the last judge

[summer cypress]

Allright, allright ! Thanks for those answers, got everything I need 🙂 Will be back talking here after I'm done with the game, see ya !

[left oyster]

i think that the Seal of Binding (trademark) is that one
and that other seals can be USED to bind, but they're not seals of binding

[urban plaza]

Dont know if its true but thats my theory

[ember river]

That may actually be the case, but there are also hanging prisons

[edgy barn]

wouldn't anybody that takes that route have to get past the mist and Phantom?

[urban plaza]

Oh yeah

[uncut holly]

Oh so Sinners Road is a prison its also where the trappers hunt for Meat for the Citadel

[ember river]

Sinners Road seems like another place where they send prisoners to

[teal drift]

Phantom may be a recent development

[ember river]

Other than the Slab

[urban plaza]

We dont really know if phantom came when we did or existed long in the past, but i assume the mist might be from phantom’s organ but idk

[teal drift]

also they might be able to climb through the ducts

[uncut holly]

Greymoor grows the crops, Sinners Road grows the meats. And Moorwing was bred by the Weavers as a giant flying Mite to hunt down and eat people from either of these places who ran

[ember river]

The mist does come from phantom's organ

[teal drift]

I think the mists is phantom messing with you

[uncut holly]

Sinners Road also is used for prisoners

[ember river]

The organ is also the exhaust control

[ember river]

It is

It vanishes when you kill him and the organ stops playing

[edgy barn]

I don't think the bugs we see at Sinner's roads are working for the citadel

[urban plaza]

I wonder what the organ’s purpose is, it just seems to make steam

[teal drift]

broa got enough aura to generate an entire fake world

[uncut holly]

Phantom seemingly wants you to kill them according to Needolin dialogue. They are slowly fading without silk and they want you to end them before they fade out

[ember river]

They aren't

[ember river]

To evacuate exhaust from the underworks

[left oyster]

the citadel is so edgy they made their exhaust system a giant creepy mind altering organ

[uncut holly]

Phantom is the first discarded child of GMS. Lace is their sister.

[edgy barn]

Lugoni seems to be the one in charge of the whole system, and he is disgraced

[lucid pasture]

i do not think sinners road grows meat for the citadel, i think they grow meat for greymoor. citadel food is proba ly better than cockroaches lol

[urban plaza]

Yeah you also see them and lace next to them if u needolin a specific spot in organ

[uncut holly]

GMS seems to have deliberately discarded Phantom for favoritism for Lace

[ember river]

The fact that their exhaust is a wind instrument is the most believable part

[left oyster]

Ancient Caste (my goats) are still edgier though

[ember river]

Ancient caste?

[uncut holly]

Ye, GMS is a jerk who seems to value loyalty. Their whole motivation going off of all of their dialogue seems to be that they believe because they are a Higher Being that they have the right to decide the lives of lower beings

[ember river]

All higher beings are like that

[uncut holly]

GMS is very oppose to freedom of choices

[ember river]

Except maybe unn

And perhaps white lady

[uncut holly]

Well GMS is deliberately like that, they where super controlling and that seems to be why the Weavers rebelled

[left oyster]

Ancient civilization, black kingdom, whatever ya wanna call em, the bugs who worshipped void

[ember river]

So was the radiance

[uncut holly]

That is true they both where

[ember river]

Oh the ancient civilization

And the pale king to an extent

[urban plaza]

I assume cut content is non canon, like the ending where grandmother silk uses us as a vessel

[left oyster]

i say Ancient Caste cause it sounds cool

[ember river]

It does but it's less understandable

[urban plaza]

Either steel soul mode specific or 2nd part of main ending after hornet wakes up in the cocoon

[uncut holly]

GMS seems to believe themself justified in deciding the way things should be given their high status, and believe that all things should conform to their will as is their right. The Weavers broke away from GMS but a major part of the story seems to be the Weavers werent that different to her than theyd like to admit

Weavers eventually styled themselves as gods too, and had the same superiority complex against all other beings

[edgy barn]

I would say the meat is all for domestic consumption, I don't remember there being any hints at roach consumption in Greymoor

[uncut holly]

Eva is likel the Weavers attempt to make an entity like GMS, but had too weak a form

Oh Sinners Road does grow the meat, thats why the roaches are in cages, the two non haunted guys and the journal entry says their hunted and bred for food

[lucid pasture]

i think there was a dialogue pretty much indicating that, i dont know if he said greymoor specificallytho

[urban plaza]

I wonder what counts as a sin in last judge’s perspective

[uncut holly]

I think most of the people on their way to the Citadel in their hay day probably died to the Judges.

[lucid pasture]

yess i never denied that i just think its not for citadel but for lower classes shit like greymoor

[winter iris]

I'ts amazing moorwing got eaten.

[uncut holly]

When things where still intact it was probably, 1. Judges. 2. Stick Bugs. 3. The Craws

[left oyster]

arbitrary vibe check

[uncut holly]

We know Stick Bugs love eatting people, although they werent always like that

[urban plaza]

The first thing last judge does is kill the 2 pilgrims so maybe they did something

[lucid pasture]

whos stick bugs

[uncut holly]

The Shell Wood bugs are stick bugs

[winter iris]

The splinter bugs in shellwood

[lucid pasture]

ah LOL i forgot stick bugs meant that

[urban plaza]

The jellyfish enemies in coral tower, if they follow real life counterparts, arent sentient, so they prob cant be judged by the last judge, but then again they were in a dream world so that cant happen anytime soon

[uncut holly]

So apparently... Seth joins the Flea Carnival?????? Ive just heard this i dont really know i havent seen this but apparently he does???

[hollow schooner]

What’s the lore behind Watcher? He’s one of Kahn’s soldiers? Is he guarding the edge of their territory? Are the sand worms behind him where their territory is?

[uncut holly]

And then beats all of your high scores?

[urban plaza]

Ye lol u get a memento for it

[spiral swift]

Yeah you talk to him a few times and then he chills with the fleas

[urban plaza]

I remember flea dodge being 95, idk what happens if u already scored over 96

[spiral swift]

Seth is canonically GOATED at juggling

[uncut holly]

I think Watcher at the Edge is just the last one left

[ember river]

Who's watcher?

[uncut holly]

Hes just the last one, we dont know his rank or his position

[hollow schooner]

Bruh

[uncut holly]

Its impressive he lived though

[lucid pasture]

Yeah

[uncut holly]

Its insane he lived

[hollow schooner]

He’s technically dead you need to use Needolin to revive his memory

[urban plaza]

I think widow and first sinner are the only weavers we see, outside of dream realms

[uncut holly]

Like Crabs died, before Pale King even came to Hallownest, and before the Weavers even came to Hallownest. Hes been around a long time

Oh no hes alive he just needs to be woken up

[urban plaza]

I think some were in weavenest atla too idk

[uncut holly]

The journal says he live

[frank flame]

Is the last judge the last judge of its kind or the last one to judge you on your way to the citadel?

[storm maple]

Hello guys, what is the topic of the chat today?

[hollow schooner]

He’s tasked with protecting the territory in the journal

[urban plaza]

Journal entry says something like ”guards to make sure only the sinless pass”

[winter iris]

The last judge and Seth

[uncut holly]

Hmmmmm i dont remember where i saw it then maybe he was revived? That seems strange though music usually doesnt do that

[storm maple]

Oh ok, what part are we at?

[frank flame]

so what

[urban plaza]

I just realized the song in bellhome that the widow plays is the same one as the needolin song we play lol

[uncut holly]

Ye Widow was probably their musician

[lucid pasture]

i think watcher was just like in an stasis for some reason, idk like sheer will maintained him there thorough the ages, he definitely isnt a dream though

[ember river]

Maybe he was just hybernating

[lucid pasture]

yeah smth like that

[urban plaza]

Idk what the yellow light means in the dream sections, idk if its the radiance or grand mother silk

[uncut holly]

Widow also was punished by the other Weavers, and their Silk was damaged so it cant be used to Weave on. Thats why they just use their silk to pull things in their boss fight.

Widow can weave on other silk though just not what they make

[winter iris]

Last Judge: DI-AH-RRHEE-AA

[urban plaza]

Oh i never realized squirms were young judges lol

[uncut holly]

Besides the various races, the people of Sinners Road, Greymoor, Deep Docks, and Blasted Cliffs where all stray native populations pressed into service by the Weavers

Its likely the Weavers started this generation of service through mind control, because we see them hypnotize the people of the Nameless Town. And the whole reason the call of the Citadel exists is because the music there draws people in.

[winter iris]

We really be getting powers from the bad guys uh?

[uncut holly]

Yeah

[winter iris]

Is hornet their superweapon?

[uncut holly]

Yeah...

[limpid summit]

The Hallownest weavers probably weren’t as evil

They were probably a bit pushy towards Hornet

[urban plaza]

One cool thing i realized is that the bridge in blasted steps that has a hole leading to bone bottom is the bridge we fell from in the cutscene

[river charm]

Push these nuts

[winter iris]

Push these bells

[uncut holly]

The Deepnest crew wanted to go back and reclaim their homeland that was their plan. We dont know how exactly they planned to do so but we know they wanted to

[frank flame]

i am not yet into act 3 (nothing spoilery plz) or know much about ss lore BUT

why are they called judges if they all just try to kill you? Shouldn't they be judging? Even if they do why do they need smaller judges spread out on a mountain? Does it have something to do with their eyes?

[ember river]

They used to just kill the ones they deemed sinners

[winter iris]

Hornet is sinful, she will be judged.
Sentence: Death sentence

[ember river]

But now they are haunted and kill everyone who isn't

[lucid pasture]

they probably kill the "sinners" yea

[frank flame]

is hornet actually sinful or are they corrupted?

[ember river]

In their eyes, probably both

[limpid summit]

In a non Haunting environment they might not have been as violent

Just like “you shall not pass”

[winter iris]

I wonder what is considered "sinful" to the jdges.
Perhaps a very long list.

[uncut holly]

The Weavers where very cruel with the Judges, they got so many bugs they called from the Wasteland using places like The First Shrine, which is literally The First Shrine. But they really didnt care about their well being.

[ember river]

They may have given you a speech

[limpid summit]

I guess the flaming mace maybe not

[urban plaza]

I also assumed that the last judge was a one of a kind, but i assume its a fully grown one

[lucid pasture]

i mean it doesnt matter. Its not like a real sinner should exist. They only acted that way for the maintanence of their fucke up system

[uncut holly]

I mean the Pilgrims that got there would work in the Underworks first

[ember river]

"For the sins you have commited in your ascent, such as eating the forbidden Lugoli Stew, you shall be sentenced to the pain of a thousand broken shells"

[uncut holly]

You work then you elevate in society, to Servant. And you dont go past servant. Unless your good at combat

Then your a guard

[ember river]

I'm not sure of the hierarchy of people who arrive

[urban plaza]

The citadel also seems to use their faith for money, like that one room where you pay 25 for confessing a sin, hornet says nothing, and it tells us we did a bad sin

[lucid pasture]

you can assume that at least through hornet entrance, there are 2 entrances where if you go to the elavtors youre on underworks but if you took the scales (taking your final climb) you would be a novle pilgrim and shit and its pretty funny

[ember river]

The idea that from the grand gate you only go to the underworks is wrong, the map clearly shows a blocked off connection directly to the chambers

And the description of the chorus cloak implies most pilgrims were accepted into the chorus if they made it

[winter iris]

It's a very corrupt system to the point confesing booths are automated machines to say your sin is bad no matter what.

[uncut holly]

We dont know if all new arrivals worked in the Underworks but some definitely did. Also some Underworks enemies are spins on normal pilgrims they make the same sounds too

[muted lantern]

do you guys think hornet wears a mask? we know weavers all wear masks, and we know masks can be indistinguishable from faces, we also know mask maker lives in deepnest, do you think hornet could be wearing a mask? or do you think thats just her face from pk's side of the family

[ember river]

That's just the underworks, which are basically torture chambers

[winter iris]

The confessing booth then tells hornet she should work overtime, unpaid.

[ember river]

Hornet has a mask, pharloom's mask maker tells as much

[muted lantern]

no thats what having an employer is like

[ember river]

Nah, it tells her she should not eat for the rest of the vey long shift

[muted lantern]

they work for money, it's just standard capitalism

[muted lantern]

theres a variety of responses from the thing

[winter iris]

How would Hornet look like without mask?

[ember river]

They work for abysmal money

[muted lantern]

again, standard capitalism

[ember river]

No one knows

[ember river]

For the 19th century

[muted lantern]

probably a more traditional spider

[uncut holly]

The hierarchy of the Citadel at its "Peak" seems to be

1. Weavers
2. Conductors
3. Vault Keepers, Architects
4. Celebrities (Trobbio, The Gourmand)
5. Guards
6. Servants
7. Underworks

[ember river]

Weavers haven't run the shit for a LONG while

[uncut holly]

Theres probably many many levels of Servant and Guard

[ember river]

This is my hardline

[uncut holly]

They used to run for a long time then they went away for a long time, this list is assuming Weavers are in picture

[ember river]

Weavers built the citadel as a prison/cathedral but it wasn't the centerpoint of pharloom nor did most people care

[muted lantern]

since we are talking underworks did you guys know the window in the break room just has a big lamp on the other side? its not a window to the rest of the city or any outdoor place, theres just a small room behind it with a lamp to give the illusion of not being trapped under mountains of machinery

[ember river]

I'd assume the citadel looked way more like a weavenest

[winter iris]

Seth is HIM.

[ember river]

They never formed part of the modern hierarchy with conductors and the like

[uncut holly]

Oh alot of people cared about the Citadel though, the Weavers pressed everybody into service, and killed the other tribes.

[ember river]

No, they did not do that

The weavers were pretty isolationist

[uncut holly]

So in terms of wars against other races. GMS did alot of it at the beginning, Weavers continued it. When the Weavers left only the Swamp People and Flies where harassed.

[ember river]

That's baseless nonsense

[vivid kernel]

void

[ember river]

GMS is never stated to do war, genocide or other stuff

Neither are the weavers

[lucid pasture]

i mean they are though

[scarlet elk]

Didn't she like mess up bilewater?

[muted lantern]

weavers didn't directly kill the other tribes as far as we know, the tribes more likely died out over a long period of suffering and pollution and resource deprivation caused by the citadel, which id argue is even more cruel than an outright war. think similar to how the u.s. starved the natives by wiping out their food sources.

[ember river]

That's the citadel, probably the modern order

Or maybe it was her since it's phantom managing the organ

[uncut holly]

What do you mean its the timeline. Weavers killed Stick Bugs we know weavers HATED stick bugs because the memorial to the Weaver in Shell Wood talks about placing a Ward on the Stick Bugs to stop them from eatting Pilgrims. We know the Weavers killed the Green Dancer bugs. We dont know which reign killed the Ants. We know the Crabs lasted the longest so they where also harassed by Weavers because its post Dancer Bugs

[ember river]

The timeline is such a mess

[scarlet elk]

Wait who runs it now? I thought grand mother silk still ran it

[ember river]

Verdania was 100% the modern order

[edgy barn]

the descriptions for the ex-pilgrims at the citadel don't really imply that to be the case

[ember river]

The architects killed the other prince to make the cog dancers which are modern

[faint edge]

does tribio have any connection to grim troupe and is ss now a prequel or sequel

[uncut holly]

No it wasnt it was gone for a very long time, the Memorium proves that

[winter iris]

SS is a sequel

[ember river]

SS is a sequel

[faint edge]

okay

[ember river]

The memorium has things that still exist

[uncut holly]

Yeah its not confirmed just some of them did work down there

[lucid pasture]

But hornet tells green prince Pale being was involved with it ie. silk. she could be wrong ofc but idk

[ember river]

Most of the things in fact

[muted lantern]

weavers ran it with gms, then gms was put to sleep and weavers fled, the conductors led and obsessed over using silk to extend their lifespan, gms stirring from her sleep used the silk inside them to puppeteer the dead and ehausted to take control over the citadel subtly

[scarlet elk]

I'm starting to realize I have zero clue what the lore of this game is

[winter iris]

I doubt Trobbio has connections to the troupe but It's not impossible.

[ember river]

Well the modern order was using boatloads of GMS silk

[winter iris]

Nightmare Trobbio?!

[ember river]

So they have significant overlap

[lucid pasture]

yeah true

[faint edge]

i mean since he is on stage too and his fighting is very similar wiht fire etc to grim

[ember river]

The modern architecture I believe is not weaver made though

[muted lantern]

i think if we get a grimm troupe addition it'll be trobbio to summon them, since he believes the land is doomed

[uncut holly]

The memorium talks about preserving Verdania which it couldnt meaning it went extinct over a long time. But thats not why we know it was the Weavers. We know its the Weavers because before the Green Dancer battle Hornet tells the Green Prince that they never stood a chance against her kin.

[winter iris]

TROBBIOOOO

[ember river]

They use that language for every single environment though

[winter iris]

Indeed if anyone does it, it will be Trobbio.

[uncut holly]

What do you mean?

[left oyster]

TROBBIOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[faint edge]

a question not to lore btu how can you see youre %?? i only see my playtime

[ember river]

The memorium is about preserving the "memory" of places, verdania is "doomed to be forgotten" since containment failed

[left oyster]

farsight

[muted lantern]

by kin i believe she is referring to pale beings, because she does that often

[uncut holly]

No look later to what i said

[winter iris]

If Trobbio 3 gets to exist, I imagine he will be Black colored.

[faint edge]

what

okay ty

[ember river]

It's impossible that it was weavers since verdania fell after the cog dancers were created

And the weavers did not make the cogwork constructs, that was the architects

[scarlet elk]

Yes she says that her kin (pale beings) seek devotion or destruction

[covert tusk]

I’ll come back to this for a larger point but I wonder how aware Trobbio was of it all
Like he wants the music back in the citadel, but is he aware WHY it’s there and what it does? How connected is he to the Citadel Caste? Etc etc
This relates to Lace btw I’m gonna come back to this I swear

[muted lantern]

I don't know how well trobbio doing blackface would go over. /j

[lucid pasture]

its hard to know ig? its kinda impossible for citadel as qe know to exist without bilewater getting fucked, and its also true that phantom managed the exhaust water so like it also makes it seem like that part was not a product of the weavers. but it also could have just been run another way during weavers era idk

[uncut holly]

The Weavers did make the Cogwork constructs, the Weavers made the Architects who made more robots. The Architect we meet tells us this

[ember river]

I'd say it's 99% not weavers

[ember river]

Please illustrate me

Where does the twelfth architect tell us she was created by weavers

[muted lantern]

cogwork dancers are vastly different style to the weaver tech

[faint edge]

Lore wise srent like 99% of hk bosses stronger then ss bosses?

[muted lantern]

much more likely the work of architects

[uncut holly]

I dont have the lines on me though. I would have to look through but i remember it being stated

[elfin niche]

Trobbio is just Temu Grimm anyway

[muted lantern]

trobbio x grimm would go so hard

[faint edge]

Dont say anyything against my goat

[uncut holly]

Well GMS boss fight might be a bit less powerful but GMS is meant to be extremely powerful. GMS seemingly couldnt be killed without being binded, thats why Hornet w as looking for other options.

[ember river]

The architect says his directive is to serve, for the first children of pharloom and pharloom eternal

[elfin niche]

"Mom, can we have Nightmare King Grimm?"
"We have Nightmare King Grimm at home."

Trobbio

[ember river]

I also think the architects aren't artificial life at all, they were organic

and became machines afterwards

It's shown it can be done, through the cog dancers and the final edict

[uncut holly]

I do not remember, I cannot provide anything so its possible although then who made the Architects

[muted lantern]

I think it's an implanted soul similar to the cogwork dancers, probably a copy of the original architect?

[faint edge]

Arent like most hk bosses stronger then ss bosses since knight beats a peak hornet and that hornet beat all of silksong

[muted lantern]

hornet is severely weakened in silksong, due to very long imprisonment

[uncut holly]

We know they removed the souls of people and put them in robots. Chior did do things with Silk but that seems like a Weaver level thing

[ember river]

That in fact I believe proves my point

Weaver tech inspired architects, if they were their creations, they wouldn't say "owes much"

[muted lantern]

the whole of the citadel learned from the weavers

[ember river]

I think it's the actual soul, read the conductor's final edict

[faint edge]

Yes but you fight some in your peak (all abilites etc) and that even proves my point more they lose to a weakend hornet and a peak hornet loses to a knight

Like wouldnt grim lowkey beat all of silksong

[ember river]

Their plan was to stop using silk to extend their biological life and just become machines to keep living for longer

[uncut holly]

It could have been the post Weavers, that would also place the Crabs fall post Weavers. Which we dont know anything about how Crabs fell

We know they where the last to hold out

[ember river]

crabs?

[uncut holly]

The Crust people their Crabs

[ember river]

I'd say the coral tower was the first to fall if anything

[uncut holly]

Crust King Khann and his crew

[muted lantern]

coral tower missed the perfect lobster lancer opportunity

[ember river]

Due to the decrease of water levels

[uncut holly]

Thats not true they where the last. And the water thing is weird we have no clue how it happened

[ember river]

Not all civilizations have to fall due to the citadel

[ember river]

Source?

[muted lantern]

citadel probably caused that tbf

[faint edge]

Who are like top 5 strongest beings in silksong (no hornet) and only silk song so no pale king or the higher beings of hk

[muted lantern]

considering their tech probably drinks a lot of water

[ember river]

I'd say they fell before the citadel, ancient civilizations are cool

[uncut holly]

I saw someone on here Tammo say it was implied GMS and the Weavers who dried up the water but I have no idea where it is. And I dont think the game ver mentions anything

[ember river]

There's also no intake anywhere near

[uncut holly]

Hold on ill get Crab lore

[lucid pasture]

I think late silksong hornet is stronger than her in HK tho

[ember river]

GMS
Probably second sentinel?

Dunno about the rest

[uncut holly]

Heres a copy of all the games quote btw

[faint edge]

But still you yk ehat i mean even than it dont really magger

[uncut holly]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fXWZMaeHiBTY1D6P2cuO929M0iXIYTXdeMifmLQ71sA/edit?tab=t.0

[ember river]

I am not going through that

[glossy badger]

Thank you I've been looking for this

[muted lantern]

also keep in mind most of hks most powerful bosses came in the dlc, so it's not a fair comparison until we get ss dlc, as in hk we fought weakened radiance and thk, only in godhome did we face them at full power, most of hks bosses are weak and ailing and far from peak form

[lucid pasture]

I think the low level bosses in silksong are probably stronger than the low level bosses in hollow knight but radiance is probably stronger than gms and shit idk

[muted lantern]

radiance wasnt super strong outside of godhome tbh

[lucid pasture]

true tbh i dont think she is that stronger

[uncut holly]

I found some other lore while looking for it. Sister Splinter says "By our claws, none but us now!" if you somehow Needolin them

[winter iris]

The last judge is left handed

[faint edge]

I thought cuz like
Knight>peak hornet
Weak hornet> silksong

[muted lantern]

I think gms is on par with radiance as we meet her in hk, but far below absrad, but gms also just woke up, so in both basegames they are far from full power, i imagine if we get a bossrush mode with an absolute gms it'll be close in difficuty

[muted lantern]

I think hornet only reaches her peak endgame silksong

[lucid pasture]

I mean knight is also weak on beginning of hk lol

He gets stronger with time

[uncut holly]

Oh... So that Conductor we meet is the Last Conductor in existence according to the file names

is that cannon i dunno

[faint edge]

Are there any bosses npcs strong lorewise exept gms

[muted lantern]

yeah and he dies immediatly after

[lucid pasture]

And Hornet doesnt fight with him at full power on the beginning of HK either

[uncut holly]

Hes called "Last Conductor" in files

[muted lantern]

the 3 hearts

[ember river]

Probably

[lucid pasture]

She probably does at the snow place tho

[faint edge]

Is there any strong boss that isnt a special being

[lucid pasture]

idk but is there any in hk,that isnt?

[muted lantern]

Seth

[faint edge]

Lorewise too?

[ember river]

Savage Beastfly

[lucid pasture]

i mean yea he tanked many citadel guys lol

[faint edge]

I said no higher beings bro

[muted lantern]

He's been guarding that shrine without letting it get disturbed for probably centuries, there's mountains of dead choristers in front of him

[faint edge]

..

[winter iris]

Last Judge has been enduring duty for many generations.

[faint edge]

Would trobio be able to be in top 10 of strongest beings in silksong? Lorewise

[muted lantern]

Anyway power scaling is lame let's talk something else

[ember river]

Definetely not

[uncut holly]

We know from Snail Shaman dialogue that most of the Ants where destroyed by the "Pale Monarch" meaning GMS probably did most of the Ants wiping, and what was left was the fragments that hid away.

[muted lantern]

No he's just a guy with sfx

[faint edge]

❤️‍🩹

[lucid pasture]

no i think tho his boss fight is hard lol

[faint edge]

And grim?

[ember river]

That was the haunting

[uncut holly]

Sad we know the Ants where quite chill. The giant ant journal entries say they guarded Vaults and Store Fronts.

That could be actually

[muted lantern]

A literal god

[faint edge]

What bug is grim?

[winter iris]

Wasn't Grimm an agent for the nightmare heart? (The real higher being)

[uncut holly]

Grimm is a unique bug that acts as the vessel for the Nightmare Heart, he is a guy but he also might be a unique bug. So his species is Grimm bug, because hes unique.

[glossy badger]

From what I can find the yunama journal entry states "yet another remarkable creature of this land before the monarch"

[ember river]

Grimm was essentially a vessel for the nightmare heart

[uncut holly]

I see. So they died before GMS was sealed away.

[ember river]

told you

[uncut holly]

Do we know what killed Nyleth?

[ember river]

We did

[uncut holly]

Ive been also trying to find that

No no Nyleth has been dead before we arrived thats her Grave site

[ember river]

That's her shrine

[lucid pasture]

id say she just got old and died over time

[uncut holly]

Nyleth is said in journal entries that she stopped the Stick Bugs from eatting everyone. We know deliberately from the Weavers Shrine that the Stick Bugs likely after her death, really really liked eatting people.

Infact Stick Bugs from all related media seem to loooove eatting people

Journal entry for Sister Splinter says they ate a buffet of Pilgrims

So its likely that Nyleth is dead

What makes the most sense is that some generationf of Citadel or GMS adjacent thing killed them. But I dont really know because I have nothing on how they died.

[coral wren]

Why is green prince gay

Also is it incest
Why does his husband look so similar

[uncut holly]

I dunno just are. They where wed in from the families that killed that Pale Stag and became immortal though.

[lucid pasture]

i honestly hope we get something about that in the future its kinda annoying to not understand that shit lol

[uncut holly]

There probably exists stuff on it we just dont know right now

[lucid pasture]

maybe yeah

[uncut holly]

Its around we just dont know how to find it and put it together

[lucid pasture]

true

[coral wren]

I guess silksong is a souslike
We got gay incest

[ember river]

Because he's a narcissist

[ember river]

We also invade his mind while he's mourning, kill him and destroy the only memory he holds dear, then rip out his still beating heart and proudly put it as a display in our home

It's so out of tone with the rest of the game it's hilarious

[lucid pasture]

yeah honestly i thought that was kinda stupid

[coral wren]

True
Except i gave his heart to the shamans

[lucid pasture]

hornet holds back from killing people kn this game and she is kinda anti sacrifice but then in his case he just dies and we kill him idk like why

[ember river]

Technically we are preserving the essence of the beauty of his land forever but that doesn't sound as funny

[coral wren]

I couldn't find carmeltas heart until later

[ember river]

You can do that?

[coral wren]

Yeah

Carmeltas heart was so hidden

[ember river]

I found carmelita's before nyleth

[coral wren]

This was just like
An unexplored area on the map that i looked in

[lucid pasture]

I think karmelitas was kinda ovvious tbh like it was obvious there would be something on that statue at some point and it even appears in the map

[coral wren]

I looked all through far feilds for like an hour then i looked in greymoor and oh theres the third heart

[ember river]

The green prince may be one of the characters with the worst luck of all of hollow knight to be honest

[lucid pasture]

nyleth is kinda obtuse you have to use your brain for it

[ember river]

This

[coral wren]

You gotta go through like 4 regions to get to karmelia

[lucid pasture]

wdym 4 regions its just hunters march lol

[coral wren]

Thing is i found like 15 different rooms that just had statues or dead people with nothing else

[ember river]

The citadel comes demanding that you or your lover sacrifice your life and get turned into a metal abomination for funs or they genocide your entire land, they do it so your land can be preserved and then a cavein destroys it anyways.
Fortuntely, the citadel had preserved all your wildlife in case this happened, but their containment fails and that is lost too

[coral wren]

So i didn't suspect dead end room #8 was any different

[spark valve]

I think the path to karmelita's way more obvious if you watched trailers and the statue therefore meant something and stuck out in your head

[lucid pasture]

none of those appear on the map tho and they werent ant queen statue lol

[lucid pasture]

true

[uncut holly]

The lore of the Civilizations before they died seems to be.

Green Dancers:
The clan started upon the ruling family hunting a mythical being called the Pale Stag, Hornet questions whether the creature of what she fought was ever actually real. The killing of this creature both made the families of the hunting party fit to rule, and likely made them immortal. It then became tradition for them to marry each other and rule together.

Crabs:
We dont know much about crabs, they where very proud, its possible that they might have immagrated here? Due to how different they are? Their ocean dried up somehow we dont know how. They where probably the strongest group besides the Citadel and GMS.

Stick Bugs:
They where created by Nyleth, and being who many people on the server theorize to be the same type of creature as Izma, but I dont really know. They likely arent a Higher Being though, as we know they died. They died at some point and the Stick Bugs they made started eatting Pilgrims. One of the Weavers particularly the one who has a memorial in Shellwood made it their goal to massacre stick bugs, and the Pilgrims there prayed to them to kill the Stick Bugs. Its also possible that Weaver put a ward on the Stick Bugs to stop them from attacking, it matters how you interpret the wording.

The Ants:
They where very prosperous, we know that unlike the Mantis they where very chill with outsiders, and only set up their traps for war with the Citadel. We know that the giant ants used to guard store fronts and vaults. They where likely very chill under Scarringer Karmelita. Supposedly the Ants existed before Karmelita and she united them with her singing.

[ember river]

The coral tower isn't crabs

They are still bugs

[uncut holly]

Crabs are bugs

Spiders are closer to crabs than bugs

[ember river]

They are still not crabs though

[runic musk]

Honestly I had issues locating Seth/Nyleth until I tried using Soar in the elevator shaft

[lucid pasture]

and hornet is a spider wyrm daughter named after bees and bunny like

[ember river]

Call it the karak civilization or something

[runic musk]

The other 2 are like fairly obvious

[ember river]

Well they are never refered to as crabs

[lucid pasture]

lol

[ember river]

Also I'm not sure if this lore still stands but hornet was given that name by queen vespa of the bees, that's why it's bee themed

I think that was meant to be why at some point IIRC

[lucid pasture]

i found nyleth a bit easy because after looking up wisp thicket on internet i juat assumed it would be the same there lol

but its kinda obtuse probably

[lucid pasture]

yeah i just think its funny

[spark valve]

at the end of the day if you're really looking you'll eventually find it just by searching every inch of wall that could lead there

[runic musk]

My thinking was that I remembered the elevator collapses after using it so I used Soar there to see if I could find anything and turns out it was the way forward

[spark valve]

that's what I did too

[uncut holly]

Additional Races

The Craws:
Greymoor is their ancestral land. They are one of the only people to survive to the modern day and not be entirely infected. They seem to have existed in the land with the farmers of Greymoor before the Citadel arrived. They seem very upset that people are on their land, but also seem to have their entire civilization based on robbing people, apparently they do have a legal system though. The Citadel seemingly didnt care about the Craws killing the Pilgrims and harassing their farmers enough to ever stop them.

The Stilkin:
At some point there was a 4th Snail Shaman who the Stilkin kidnapped, tortured, and killed. This is why Groal has soul powers. The Stilkins home of Bile Water was poisoned by the Citadel through Putrified Ducts. Ima be honest I dont know too much about Bile Water lore.

The Flies:
Imprisoned at some date for a unspecified crime, we dont know what that crime was, it was old enough to be lost to time.

[glossy badger]

Funnily enough the craggler is a crab

[uncut holly]

Also the Crabs might not be called Crabs but they are likely based off of Crabs.

I like crabs

[glossy badger]

4th snail shaman also went there willingly to meet with the stilkin

[covert tusk]

Ok back Lace Time

So it’s stated she’s been around longer than most, yet she’s constantly described as a child when she clearly isn’t. It’s a role forced upon her, and one she feels she has to play into to get her mother’s love. With that being said, she’s described as a White Knight, so did the Citadel know who she was?? Like were they aware she was a daughter of their source of power?? Did she have a higher rank? Or did she show up during the haunting era when it was all falling apart and she was queen of a bunch of husks more or less. I doubt having so much and so little power at the same time (minions and goons galore in the citadel caste, yet being under the most strict and neglectful mother to exist in these games) didn’t help shape her into the psychopath she is when we meet her, as well as making her devalue life (including her own). None of this is even talking about Phantom or Widow, her literal sister and the woman who’s obsessed over her mother and even calls her “Mother” herself. Its all so interesting

[spark valve]

lace is a child she's not growing mentally or physically that's probably how she's made

[uncut holly]

So GMS arrives. Kills the Crabs. Might kill the Ants if we interpret them being killed by the "Pale Monarch" to be post Haunting or pre Haunting. Nyleth dies we dont know how best bet is on GMS. Green Dancer Bugs I believed where Weavers but I might be wrong they might have been Conductor time.

[ornate jasper]

I cry now

[river coyote]

Is Hornet’s mask biological or made by the mask making guy in HK

[spark valve]

biological

[lucid pasture]

where does fhis about greymoor being a place of thieves come from lol.
also 4th shaman did grt killed by bilewater people but it was like, he went to live there to rebel to counter citadel (didnt work clearly lol)

[left oyster]

Red Memory having the Pale King motif did a really good job at invoking his weight on Hornet's life while also making his absence clear

[uncut holly]

I dont know bile water lore

The Craws call Greymoor "Our Land! Our Land!" if you read their minds

Thats not a quote i dont remember the quote

[lucid pasture]

it is a dialogue you have with caretaker when you show him the soul, even before beginning the silk and soul quest you can do that. he says it was a soul from a person he knew who tried to go against citadel and he went to bilewatwr for that, but he couldnt reallt convince bilewatee people to side with him and just got killed

[left oyster]

Damn grandma

[lost lion]

Snail shaman try not to be brutalized by a soul user challenge

[left oyster]

Snail Shamans try not to die by being stupid with your own magic challenge

[ornate jasper]

rude

[left oyster]

hornet is an old lady but still hot (for bug standards)

[ornate jasper]

oh

i thought you were calling me grandma for crying lol

[left oyster]

no i was calling hornet a grandma for being old

[ornate jasper]

also I just found the coral tower (going through the game slowly) and it seems like the coral people were against GMS?

or maybe just the weavers in general

(feels like there should be more there for beating a boss)

[lucid pasture]

everyone was against gms lol

[ornate jasper]

yeah, it said something about standing alone/last ones left

idk

[uncut holly]

I think more like GMS was against everyone else

GMS showed up, and decided that all lesser beings where beneath them and they had the right to shape the world however they wanted. They demanded completel loyalty and obedience

[left oyster]

While Pale King basically liked everyone (yet another W for the Wyrm administration)

[uncut holly]

Yeah Pale King tried to be a diplomat, still had his goals but he tried his best to be diplomatic

[chilly gyro]

Just beat GMS. Did anyone pay attention to the crest hornet gets in the cutscene?

[uncut holly]

What crest?

[ornate jasper]

I mean wyrm starts with Ws it makes sense

sorry

[chilly gyro]

When your binding GMS in the generic ending. Hornets crest gets upgraded with each bind

[ornate jasper]

I think its just meant to indicate overloading power more than anything else

[glossy badger]

I did find proof that that grandma silk was the reason for the coral people's extinction

[ornate jasper]

also the steel weaver masks seem significant

[ornate jasper]

the silk binding their king in the tower?

[glossy badger]

Yeah when you needolin the statue but not when you go into its memory

I did it but completely forgot the dialogue

Now I have it

[chilly gyro]

The ending makes it seem like hornets becoming something more. So would she technically be ascending and/or becoming a higher being herself?

[uncut holly]

Whats the proof?

[ornate jasper]

i think it's just more power than she can sustain hence she is hollowed out

[chilly gyro]

The ending of the cutscene shows hornet growing three more pairs of arms.

[uncut holly]

Oh no not that. I meant about the crab

[uncut holly]

I am curious

[chilly gyro]

In the very end hornet grows three more pairs of limbs. That has to mean somthing

[lucid pasture]

he said he doesnt remember the dialogue lol

[uncut holly]

Ah ok

[lucid pasture]

apparently its smth he says when you use needolin on him before going to coral tower idk

[inner pond]

Anyone know the significance of the white butterflies and how one broke the spell on the Hornet's cage in the beginning of the game?

[lucid pasture]

like before youre able to go to coral tower i mean

[uncut holly]

Can you read bosses minds via the Needolin in Memories?

[lucid pasture]

they are apparently made of silk

[uncut holly]

If so thats facinating and i dont know where to find that... Probably not in all the games dialogue

[lucid pasture]

and the one who free hornet on the beginning is probably lace

[lucid pasture]

i dont know

[covert tusk]

The way she talks about being a child, clearly being around Hornets size, how long she’s existed, and just generally her behavior make me think it ain’t a literal thing
Like there’s a difference between her and Nuu who is an actual child and does actual childlike things and doesn’t stress 90% of the time he is in fact: a child

[left oyster]

the ending is also literally called "Weaver Queen"

[uncut holly]

Oh the White Butterflies are possibly related to the souls of people, weirdly if you kill the underworks robots Silk Flies fly out of them. And we know that those robots where animated with the souls of people.

So the white butterflies might be peoples conciousness and soul extracted and put into the robots

[covert tusk]

Omfg so they’re turning people into FLIES NOW????? 😭😭😭😭 (if I’m understanding right I think I may be slow)

[chilly gyro]

Exactly. So she might even be transforming into a new weaver deity. Or just a very very powerful weaver entity at the least.

[uncut holly]

I think so, but im not 100% sure on it.

[left oyster]

i thought it was consensus that binding higher being power = becoming higher being

in the context of that ending

[uncut holly]

Yeah Hornet says that in the normal ending she is able to Bind Grandma Silk to obtain their power, but has a strange urge to subjugate everyone or "follow their instincts"

[chilly gyro]

I thought so too.

[uncut holly]

Which really does... actually bring up alot of questions on Grandma Silk.

[lucid pasture]

imo its just that theu are made of silk but well idk

[left oyster]

yeah which is why I believe that base Weaver instincts lead them to want power and to dominate, which is why Herrah tells Hornet to deny their wishes
Herrah was only like that cause she, too, saw past those base Weaver instincts

[uncut holly]

If Hornet has base instincts to subjugate people when getting Grandma Silk power then how does Grandma Silk think? Do they have the base "urge" to just subjugate everyone or is it them becoming like Grandma Silk

That would make alot of sense as what we know is. Grandma Silk had a feeling of superiority to all other beings, and believed because they where a Higher Being they could play god with them and have them be obedient and have everything be perfect to their preferences. The Weavers where oppressed by this so they put her to sleep, then did the same thing. Like parent like child

[left oyster]

I think the will to dominate was passed down from Grand Mother Silk to the Weavers

[chilly gyro]

I think that might be a base instinct of a higher being. Pail King made a kingdom seemingly unprompted, and they worshipped him. So it’s not unreasonable to say that higher beings simply need worship and followers as part of their life

[uncut holly]

That makes alot of sense

[left oyster]

but like accidentally

because grandma silk wanted the weavers to sustain her

but then those instincts led them to not being satisfied and try to become higher caste themselves by building the citadel

[lucid pasture]

imo its more related to hornet pale side than weaver side buut idk

weaver side is kinda related to pale side too in the end lol

[uncut holly]

Thing is though is that Higher Beings arent all one thing. Its a status symbol, if you are a high up enough unfathomable being you are a Higher Being but not all Higher Beings are the same. Like they can be physically different creatures

[spark valve]

You've slain a marvel indeed... Well, flawed marvel, at least. One to keep far from she was, least for us mortal sorts. Look of a child and a mind to match, but her's been up wanderin' this Citadel longer'n most. Even in its long silence, way 'fore you came and roused its ire
she's a child

[vivid kernel]

Are hornet and lace related

[left oyster]

Weavers are pale-adjacent so same thing

[chilly gyro]

No

[vivid kernel]

Are hera and grand mother silk related

[uncut holly]

Yes

[vivid kernel]

So hornet and lace are related

[left oyster]

But like, the Weaver instincts might be of a more agressive and opressive domination, like GMS and the Citadel
The Wyrm's will for domination was peaceful and for his people to thrive

[uncut holly]

Um........

[lucid pasture]

i qonder what they mean by long silence but honestly it might as well be haunting era aint it not

[spark valve]

it's haunting era

[amber stratus]

i just beat ||mother of silk|| whats the ending lore:p

[uncut holly]

I guess that Lace is Hornets Aunt???????????????????????????????????

[glossy badger]

In a way

[uncut holly]

Is that how it works maybe theres a different word for it

[lucid pasture]

i wouldnt say that

weavers are not descendents of silk

[vivid kernel]

Hera is like a fat weaver, and grandmother silk made weavers

[uncut holly]

That is true Weavers where just elevated by Silk

[stuck sentinel]

Does the Silk Devourer serve for anything aside from recovering your coins?

[left oyster]

Little dumb spiders got weaverified by her so kinda same thing

[uncut holly]

So they arent related. Even though GMS calls them her children

[chilly gyro]

Yet they act the same. Pail king made Hallownest, they worshipped him. Unn made green path, which I will be counting as a civilization due to the ruins and mossknights. The radiance was already worshiped, but once they were ousted, she forced everyone to follower her even if it killed them. Now we have Grand Mother Silk raising a civilization that was made to sustain and worship her

[lucid pasture]

nah i think lace is more literal daughter which is why she carss about silk a lot more than weavers

cares about lace*

even if both are created

[spark valve]

lace is physically created from gms in a way the weavers weren't

[left oyster]

hypocritical cause she basically just sent phantom to rot forever in the organ

yet another W for Pale King because he died thinking of the principle he believed in and never went against it (No Cost Too Great)

[vivid kernel]

Is phantom related to silk?

[lucid pasture]

i dont think Silk really viewed weavers as her >DAUGHTERS at all even tho she called herself their "mothers"

[left oyster]

made of silk

[vivid kernel]

So phantom is related to lace

[glossy badger]

Phantom is her daughter

[spark valve]

that is a very valid interpretation of what first sinner says

[glossy badger]

Yeah they're sisters

[uncut holly]

Ye Phantom is Laces Sister? Brother?

[vivid kernel]

So phantom is related to hornet

[uncut holly]

Whats Phantoms gender?

Ive seen them called both

[spark valve]

sister

[uncut holly]

Not in game but by people

[left oyster]

"Why us, Sister?" so like
i think female

[uncut holly]

Oh yeah that

[vivid kernel]

Is the hollow knight in silksong

[glossy badger]

Phantom is referred to a they in the journal but lace calls them sister in the thread memory

[neat sandal]

we don't know what GMS view
we only know from side of weavers and lace and phantom

[left oyster]

plus all weavers were made female so i think gms didnt want male children (for some reason, or just physically couldnt produce them)

[desert gull]

So can you make pilby survive throughout the entire game
Or does nobody know yet

[glossy badger]

Makes sense if she couldn't produce them with gms being the only parent

[vivid kernel]

Is lace and phantom void?

[uncut holly]

From what little we do know about GMS view, GMS seems to want everyone "Loyal". Thats kind of the extent we know from them themself.

Also they prize lace for being "Loyal"

[spark valve]

no

[glossy badger]

No they're made of silk

[vivid kernel]

Then why does she where a mask?

Zero silk all void

[neat sandal]

that is fair

I don't want my childs are betrayer either

[sinful nimbus]

I never saw em after far fields

[glossy badger]

Wearing a mask isn't exclusive to void creatures

[vivid kernel]

Its a shell

[lucid pasture]

yes but like lace is a being entirely created by Silk. phantom also is but she doesnt consider phantom that much at all considering shit lol and probably viewed her as failure. Silk get insanely crazy and goes to extrme lenghts to protect Lace after she goes to void, which she wouldnt do with weavers that she kinda literally persecute. I think its fair to assume she values Lace in a higher way, as an actual daughter

[vivid kernel]

Like the vessel shells

So phantom is a vessel

[spark valve]

this is also after lace betrays her worse than the weavers did

[uncut holly]

Ive mostly built my characterization from GMS going off of their seeming obsession with controlling everything. And the idea that they want things specifically in a certain way being that GMS supposedly "Discarded" Phantom, and always talks about how Lace is so nice because shes "Loyal"

Other than that we know GMS showed up in the early days and just started shooting

[vivid kernel]

Also this isn’t the knight its actually the hollow knight

[spark valve]

it is not

it's the knight

[vivid kernel]

Yes it is, you can tell because of the horns

[uncut holly]

Its too small for the Hollow Knight

[vivid kernel]

You can obviously see

[left oyster]

the Hollow Knight's shade looks like this are you stupid

[spark valve]

it was like that in the first game too

[vivid kernel]

Void can change shape

[vivid kernel]

So obviously thk reverted to its younger self

[final narwhal]

ragebait used to be believable

[uncut holly]

Im pretty sure thats supposed to be The Knight

[left oyster]

it also turns into the Shade Lord

[spark valve]

this is how the knight's horns are consistently drawn in that form specifically

[vivid kernel]

Yeah

Sho thats obviously thk

[left oyster]

https://tenor.com/view/lex-luthor-superman-2025-ragebait-sip-tea-gif-9440606645831425865

[vivid kernel]

Then explain the knights shade

Its shade has its regular horns

So obviously thats thk

[spark valve]

go watch dream no more again

[uncut holly]

Dude thats The Knight. They look the exact same as they are always protrayed

[uncut holly]

Their always protrayed that way

[vivid kernel]

Thats thk

[spark valve]

this is the knight in dream no more

[vivid kernel]

Thats thk

[spark valve]

it's not

[neat sandal]

she may actually love her adopted daughter.
yes, until they betray her

[vivid kernel]

You can tell by the thicker horns and long horns

[uncut holly]

Every other thing has been them looking like this. All the post game endings we see of them except for Shade Lord is like that.

[spark valve]

go watch dream no more again

[atomic dirge]

yall would fall for cheese on a mouse trap

[glossy badger]

Why are you guys engaging 😭

[final narwhal]

so true

[gleaming creek]

Interesting that the Knight's horns/antlers grew. I wonder if this transformation caused it to have a growth spurt?

[spark valve]

boredom

[vivid kernel]

Look

[atomic dirge]

anyways

[uncut holly]

Thats the same without tentacles.

[vivid kernel]

Thats pure vessel though

[atomic dirge]

can we talk about something useful

[vivid kernel]

If it was thk its eyes would have been orange

[glossy badger]

Sure

[uncut holly]

Im starting to doubt if you believe these two things arent similar.

[vivid kernel]

This is useful

[gleaming creek]

Okay, so my question is where is the Hollow Knight? Did the cliffhanger with Hornet actaully show it survive the events of HK?

[atomic dirge]

dude stop falling for the bait holy shit

[uncut holly]

I mean, its such a deliberate choice even from a narrative perspective Team Cherry woudlnt do that other wise.

[atomic dirge]

probably still in hallownest

[vivid kernel]

That is clearly thk in the ending

Yoall are just wrong

[final narwhal]

has anyone tried to put together most of the silksong lore yet

[gleaming creek]

Kinda nice that the HK got a happy ending

[sacred heath]

https://tenor.com/view/arthur-lies-lie-internet-lie-stop-lying-gif-16106191074125891844

[gleaming creek]

Presumably living in a peaceful Hallownest

[vivid kernel]

Yes

[lucid pasture]

I dont think she hated weavers ofc she probably considered them but i think she definitely does consider Lace way higher even tho Lace kinda saysbher life sucks and is annoying towards her lol

[atomic dirge]

holy shit can yall just ignore the guy 😭

[vivid kernel]

Lace is related to hornet

They are sisters

Grandmother silk is the grandma of hornet

[uncut holly]

It just seems like people always walk into this channel and try to start fights and ignore obvious parrelels. Soley just to try and fight people with the intent that they can play dumb to the obvious comparison or just deny because unless something is deliberately stated in text you cant "100% prove it"

[lucid pasture]

bro youre making things up this is crazy

[atomic dirge]

welp

[lucid pasture]

true

[gleaming creek]

Damn, you're kinda right

[atomic dirge]

do you know what bait is

[gleaming creek]

Well, Hornet and Lace aren't sisters, they're cousins

[uncut holly]

Yeah, but like i like lore. I wanna know lore

[atomic dirge]

yeah so just ignore the guy

[vivid kernel]

Basically

[gleaming creek]

But yeah, you're right. They're cousins a few generations removed (not that that matters much considering they're both long lived, possibly immortal demigods)

[vivid kernel]

Just say you’re wrong

Like I said thk is the one in the ending

[left oyster]

This is like... Someone saying Hornet made the Knight eat carboard...

[vivid kernel]

Also hornet is void

[ember river]

You pull theories and spread them as if they are factual, that's what I take issue with

[vivid kernel]

You can tell because of the cucoon

[sacred heath]

that was fucked up why would Hornet do that

[ember river]

At the very least they require extensive discussion with wider theories

[atomic dirge]

nah hornet ate cardboard

[vivid kernel]

And she doesn’t die in the void

[ember river]

Cheap bait