sk-lore

[maiden meteor]

in DNM we don’t even kill her ourselves but rather weaken her enough for void to drag her below

[near kestrel]

Ah right yeah, he probably didn't know about void heart

[dapper willow]

I mean I think it woukd be possible to defeat her without void control
Void is just the easiest way to defeat her

She got pissed because the moths abandoned her

[left oyster]

No he DIDNT BRO the MOTHS TURNED TO PK ON THEIR OWN

Radiance got pissy her people preferred a better ruler

[near kestrel]

Especially with how GMS is handled it does seem implied that beings of that much power really only have one weakness, void

[maiden meteor]

We don’t even know full extent of Rad’s control over dreams so it might as well be impossible to beat her without some insanely powerful abilities

[whole holly]

Queen’s Gardens and Fog Canyon shows that Hallownest kingdoms did take from greenpath

[nova sluice]

Unn was sleeping and dreaming most of the time iirc
Was she immune to Rad?

[whole holly]

Because of pale kings

[dapper willow]

Gms can be killed by the parasyte too so I don't think thats the case

[nova sluice]

She should have been the #1 target

[maiden meteor]

I assume HBs are immune to each other

[dapper willow]

Bro why you blaming him from EXISTING in the general vicinity of the moths

[whole holly]

I am arguing his existence was net negative, fact that moths switch does actually solidify argument more

[maiden meteor]

Parasite likely siphoned power from GMS which made it exponentially stronger and allowed to overpower her

[whole holly]

My point is that his existence was net negative

[left oyster]

Queen's Gardens was just the White Lady

Fog Canyon idk much about it

[dapper willow]

Hornet kinda does the same no?
With binding

[near kestrel]

havnt watched that ending yet :), does seem like the ashen bud has some special power to it but it is NOT void so fair enough

[nova sluice]

Oh, hmmm, that makes sense, I don't remember any instance of them using HB stuff against each other

[left oyster]

It's a net positive no matter what he gave sapience to lower beings

[maiden meteor]

yeah

[whole holly]

It supports the argument that pale kings existence was net negative

[proven bramble]

Ok just to be clear so the void and radiance (higher being of light) are ancient enemies

But the pale beings are a different type of light that has some from of resistance against the void right?

[left oyster]

The Void is power opposed to pale beings

[dapper willow]

The pale king uplifted a bunch of bugs and gave them luxuries
He cant be that bad

[maiden meteor]

they don’t really have innate resistance but can probably produce Everbloom

[whole holly]

Well, compare sapience to infection, still pale kings existence was net negative

[nova sluice]

I don't think the Void chooses to be like that, it's just how it is

[left oyster]

Why didn't gms just make everblooms is she stupid

[maiden meteor]

makes sense

Void and HBs are primordial forces

and represent opposing concepts

[fair zealot]

my understanding was pale beings had a particular weakness to void, not a resistance

[whole holly]

They are husband and wife, and kingdom annexed it so it is pretty blameable on PK

[nova sluice]

Void wasnt really a problem on Pharloom until someone messed with it. We can even see a weaver structure down below

[rustic holly]

yeah
void and hb is basically order and chaos

[maiden meteor]

I think it’s a beat more complicated

like overwhelming amount of void can defeat HBs

but also overwhelming amount of light can beat void

as we see in Embrace the Void

Void probably wouldn’t be able to beat Radiance as well if Knight didn’t unite it with their will

in case of GMS she’s severely weakened and Shamans opened portal straight into the void sea so it was a bit easier

[nova sluice]

Void is the chillest thing on HK universe
It does nothing until someone messes with it

[maiden meteor]

Because it can’t really go too far outside of Abyss

[nova sluice]

HB are always full of schemes and plans (aside my beloved Unn)

[maiden meteor]

Void isn’t really as peaceful

[whole holly]

Unn and Abyss Creature(if he is HB)

[nova sluice]

Ye but it's not like it's trying to aggressively expand, it's just chilling there

[maiden meteor]

it’s just that 99% of time void isn’t in position to threaten anyone

but we know that, for example, it even has the ability to overpower bugs’ minds

[nova sluice]

On HK they used the abyss to mess with hundreds of babies to beat Rad
On SS the snails messed with the abyss to snare Silk

[maiden meteor]

like the guy in lighthouse

[rustic holly]

the lifeblood core thing?

[nova sluice]

Leave the abyss alone, thanks

[maiden meteor]

alas Lifeblood turned out to be a snare

[nova sluice]

There is this huge lifeblood beast with many eyes

[maiden meteor]

I mean void does kinda try to mess with things outside

like the totem we get sharp shadow from

[whole holly]

Void is more of force than actual HB, most of time it is not going to be harmful, that is like saying Dream Essence and Soul is Harmless, but they are forces that can be used for Harm as well but Higher Beings (GMS, Radiance, PK, Void Entity)

[nova sluice]

After hundreds of years of PK messing with it

[whole holly]

i think that was ritual i read that somewhere, Sharp Shadow is spell

[whole holly]

if he is HB yea

[maiden meteor]

I think the only reason we don’t really see void do much in Pharloom is because it’s waaaaay deeper and has a huge layer of lava

[whole holly]

but they doesn't suggest it was Abyss Creatures Doing unless he suddenly became malevolent

[nova sluice]

Before PK started to use Void I don't think it was doing anything

[maiden meteor]

Hornet does say she saw Lifeblood do same things in Hallownest

[nova sluice]

Unless messed with, Void is pretty chill

[maiden meteor]

I think it’s just that in HK we saw early stages of lifeblood spread

[maiden meteor]

wait, spell… void…

Snails void conspiracy was there all along

[whole holly]

well, this seems like game changed how Lifeblood functions, but in reasonably doses i guess it is just beneficial

[maiden meteor]

I always suspected lifeblood was secretly evil tbh

because blobs eerily resemble infection ones

and like entire lifeblood aesthetic does

with these vines and stuff

I feel like Lifeblood entity might have a mechanism similar to infection but it acts way more carefully

[whole holly]

lightseed and lifeseed was most similar, but color differences made me think they were opposing forces of each other, until it became Blue Infection

[maiden meteor]

instead of just bending your will it slowly makes its way in

convincing you how good it feels

[whole holly]

infection and dreams also makes you feel good, as radiance manipulates you

[maiden meteor]

also Lifeblood’s ability to reanimate corpses and mutate creatures is very infection-like

[proven bramble]

I have a theory that lifeblood spread faster the more substance it has

[whole holly]

i hate that they made Lifeblood yet another Infection

[maiden meteor]

I feel like this twist kinda fits the narrative

[fair zealot]

i think it's fun

[maiden meteor]

after all it’s just another HB and you can never trust those

[nova sluice]

Are the gods of old godhome HB?

[whole holly]

well , they are both connected to dream essence, but i always assumed it was Different because Abyss Creature and Radiance were both Dream based HBs that opposed each other and Abyss Creature was significantly weaker

[nova sluice]

Gods of thunder and rain (or something like this)

[whole holly]

it doesn't add anything to story

[fair zealot]

maybe the lifeblood creature is actually keeping the lifeblood in hallownest in check, and that's why it grows out of control in pharloom

[fallow zealot]

i don't blame pale king for banning life blood anymore

[proven bramble]

It wasn't originally in Pharloom right?

[maiden meteor]

Maybe Lifeblood entity is another Void-related HB too

[maiden meteor]

it wasn’t yea

[fair zealot]

correct it's like an invasive species

[fallow zealot]

i felt towards the lifeblood the same hornet feels towards flies

[maiden meteor]

since it kinda has void aesthetic and its lair is in Abyss

[whole holly]

one affects mind but twists body, one strengthens body but also affects mind, they have opposing theme and colors being polar opposite were pretty indicative, radiance being white orange, abyss creature being black and blue

[fallow zealot]

the lair is in the abyss cuz pale king sealed it there

[maiden meteor]

Idea that Knight isn’t first void HB is kinda intriguing

[whole holly]

well yeah, ig it can be mix of both

[maiden meteor]

it would also explain why Knight has no side effects from Lifeblood even after converting entire health to it

[whole holly]

but fact is Dream Essence particles are in rooms where Abyss Creature is present

[whole holly]

i guess so

[fallow zealot]

it wouldn't say anything about lifeblood being related to void, just that void creatures resist it better

[maiden meteor]

in first game it seems that all HBs are related to dreams in one way or another

[fair zealot]

could be dream essence is everywhere in pharloom and hornet just can't see it

[maiden meteor]

ehhh, fact that you need to be dosed in Lifeblood to enter makes it seem more like passage of the worthy thing to me

[whole holly]

we yeah, because they are but to different extent

[whole holly]

exactly

[maiden meteor]

Needoline magic could just be GMS’ way of interacting with dreams

[fallow zealot]

but also void creatures can't replace their own blood

what happens with hornet is the same that happened with joni, her blood gets replaced with lifeblood, Eva even says that if u go talk to her while infected by it

and hornet can regen her blue lifes because she's just producing more blood

[maiden meteor]

I think it’s more that lifeblood mends Hornet’s wounds

since its why it was sought by Alchemist in first place

[fallow zealot]

not when u overdose

[maiden meteor]

remember that in Act 3 Alchemist tells you that he can produce so much Lifeblood he doesn’t need his gland anymore

[fallow zealot]

eva says your blood is cursed, yarnaby too

[fallow zealot]

he needed the gland to do what architect's crest do to us

[whole holly]

that is bad writing in my opinion

[proven bramble]

That would make sense but hornet also realized when she was in godhome...

Or maybe she thought it was only a weird ass dream lol

[frozen heart]

Is there any real explanation for why hornet produces the cocoon like how the knight produces a shade? I haven’t seen strong evidence yet outside gameplay mechanics

[maiden meteor]

She basically asks why knight haunts her dreams lmao

[maiden meteor]

shade inside cocoon is probably what Jiji called “our regrets”

[whole holly]

well, gameplay is big reason why, rest is knight is void and hornet has silk

[fallow zealot]

its her using backup silk to bundle her loose items and part in an emergency retreat I'd say

but for sake of lore, steel soul is probably the canon

[maiden meteor]

Knight’s regrets just turn into Shade because some weird ass void magic or smth

[frozen heart]

This is what I figured but just thought I’d ask. Didn’t know if it was some weird pale king related thing

[maiden meteor]

Also what’s up with Coliseum of Fools having Shade spawning room

[fallow zealot]

Knight's shade actual exists, since it is referenced by both jiji, the colosseum and tye collector

hornet's cocoon is never mentioned by anyone

[maiden meteor]

I get gameplay reason but

[frank nymph]

I feel like canonically the knight doesn't die but like the shell breaks and the shade is left

[maiden meteor]

I think Knight can die canonically (because it is actually acknowledged in game) but it’s probably a bit more complicated than respawning on bench

[fallow zealot]

is the void a hive mind? how does the shade lord + all the vessels know hornet is in pharloom

[nova sluice]

How did the other knights die? We can see some infected but what about the others?

[frank nymph]

It's probably more of a gameplay thing than anything else

[fallow zealot]

also is the void oceans connected? or could they teleport there?

[maiden meteor]

I think the reason Knight comes so late is exactly because it took them some time to get there

as to how they knew they might’ve sensed disturbances in void or felt Hornet’s soul (since her soul must be unique enough)

[maiden meteor]

I think it’s one giant ocean like in Rain World

[dapper willow]

Maybe bwcause of the ruckus Grandma is making

[nova sluice]

Silk and Lace inside the void must have also called for a lot of attention from Knight

[maiden meteor]

it seems like Silksong’s void dive was inspired by RW too

[proven bramble]

Maybe the everbloom sent out a signal?

[fallow zealot]

or the flower may hurt, but how did he know she was there from idk hallownest?

i suppose the void is either a hive mind sort of thing

or for being the shade lord he is kind omniscient

[maiden meteor]

I think Knight can just sense things through void

[void smelt]

What’s the lore for Eva?

[fallow zealot]

complicated question

she's an attempt of the weaver's to create an artificial higher being? imo

[maiden meteor]

Imperfect Silk life/HB made by Weavers to maybe usurp GMS

[nova sluice]

Artificial life made by weavers but couldn't be sustained with a body so it's just silk and soul inside a tank

[void smelt]

Thanks !

[fallow zealot]

she's Lace prototype

[maiden meteor]

and then Weavers just seemingly locked her away after failure

[void smelt]

🫡

[maiden meteor]

or an attempt to make Lace analogue

[whole holly]

Phantom is lace prototype, Eva is Analogue

[fallow zealot]

yeah but i think eva came before

[void smelt]

Wdym by Analogue ?

[dapper willow]

The weavers were jelous of Grandma and tried to make a child of their own

[nova sluice]

Maybe to hide her from Silk, who knows

[fallow zealot]

silk lifeform, but not made by gms

[maiden meteor]

I think they say something about “leave cursed child”

[void smelt]

👍🏻

[fallow zealot]

they were trying to make their own lace

[maiden meteor]

so it seems more like they were just assholes

which honestly isn’t anything new

[nova sluice]

On Eva's dialogue?

[maiden meteor]

nah in harp log thing

[whole holly]

but who it was made before is also relevant, lace is made by GMS so only prototype would be phantom because she is also made by GMS, Eva is attempt at creating GMS

[fallow zealot]

they fucked up with her and didn't know how to kill it ot something like that

[fallow zealot]

yeah but did lace exist

[rustic holly]

Hide her deep, the despised child, our shame shown in shell of iron. She is a wish cast vain, divinity mimicked in form too frail.

[nova sluice]

I was looking for it, thanks

[fallow zealot]

yeah shes a gms knockoff

[whole holly]

she can't be prototype of lace, because being prototype would require of being made by same creator

[maiden meteor]

I mean killing her would be straightforward enough, just open her chamber

maybe they just didn’t have the heart to

[fallow zealot]

idk maybe opening the shell is dangerous for other people around?

[whole holly]

can we break seal of binding eva put around herself when hornet is cursed with the Twisted Bud or with Plasmium Overdose?

[fallow zealot]

i still have no idea why were gms collecting weavers

[fallow zealot]

no

[cold solstice]

Is the knight actually stronger than hornet?

[fallow zealot]

eva refuses

[whole holly]

she can't survive outside her birthing chamber

[fallow zealot]

define stronger

both are demigods

[maiden meteor]

"Sisters, spiders, the burden is passed. These simple bugs shall bear it full. Never to cease. Never to silence.

We shall die, and wait, and pray, that one may come of silken strength enough to weave us free."
Oh that’s interesting log

[fallow zealot]

yeah

[maiden meteor]

it confirms that 1) Weavers just passed their duty on citadel bugs and 2) They willingly locked themselves in tombs to wait for Hornet

[dry sparrow]

idk i feel like hornet would demolish the knight with her new abilities lol

[cold solstice]

I feel like hornet and knight powerscaling is like jojo main character in different part

[maiden meteor]

So like, some Weavers fled Pharloom

and those who stayed locked themselves inside tombs

[cold solstice]

In their part they shine in other’s part they are support character

[maiden meteor]

and unfortunate few got Widow treatment

[fallow zealot]

so widow is an enslaved weaver basically

[nova sluice]

And some tried to come back from Hallownest to Pharloom

[fallow zealot]

who

[maiden meteor]

Btw

[fallow zealot]

wtf

[maiden meteor]

we had confirmation of Weaver culture being related to music all the way back in HK

[nova sluice]

But we have no clue if they survived the trip, got captured or anything

[fallow zealot]

we only find 1.5 alive weavers in silksong

[maiden meteor]

I don’t really understand Widow’s fate

[dry sparrow]

so there's all this stuff going around about GMS being asleep and wanting to awake, and apparently this from the weavers keeping her asleep. but do we know if that's actually a thing or could it just be cut content?

[proven bramble]

Probably got captured

[fallow zealot]

widow is half and first sinner

[maiden meteor]

like why would GMS handicap her and just make her guard Bellhart

if she needed weavers for whatever

[nova sluice]

I would assume so
but since we have no proof I leave it as it is

[dry sparrow]

i feel like GMS is still in control of the kingdom, considering all the threads controlling the enemies in the first place, she's like manually puppeting everyone, so how can she be asleep

[maiden meteor]

Sinner is actually pretty dead

we fight her in a dream

[fallow zealot]

that was what i thought

[dry sparrow]

so why did she actually bring hornet there, and she was clearly bringing other weaver children, succesfully, and keeping them in cages

[fallow zealot]

but im not fully sure

[maiden meteor]

maybe like lucid dreaming

or dreamwalking

[fallow zealot]

why would she in a dream have to weave a dress

[maiden meteor]

don’t Cradle logs mention that most of halfbreeds weren’t suitable

[faint kite]

Is Styx related to weavers?

[maiden meteor]

like mortally wounded or frail with age

[dry sparrow]

i think she's yearning for a child since she essentially brought her original weavers to extinction, and what she wanted was to restore her 'family', which is why she started desperately kidnapping weavers from other kingdoms. which is why lace didn't feel like her true child and was jealous of hornet because GSM 'actually wanted her'

[maiden meteor]

aura farming

[nova sluice]

Poor Styx...very much dead on Steel

[fallow zealot]

the cradle logs show

Two 1/8 weavers
One 1/4 weaver

hornet is 1/2 weaver

all of them combined is 1 full weaver

thats clearly intentional

[dry sparrow]

not suitable? hmm i dont remember, got any lines? or maybe it was how they were mostly mortal and died of old age in their cages

[proven bramble]

I can really see why the weavers didn't want to be bothered with the PK before the dreamer deal

GMS was just a huge pain in the ass lmao, one higher being too many.

[maiden meteor]

yeah that’s what I wanted to say

[dry sparrow]

the different thing about hornet is that she's probably the only immortal weaver half-breed because of the pale king

[maiden meteor]

basically they were of no use

[dry sparrow]

are weavers themselves immortal? we do see a living weaver in hallownest, would that weaver be thousands of years old?

[maiden meteor]

Log also mentions that Hornet is “sensed strong with silk”

[fallow zealot]

did herrah do the deal with GMS in mind? i don't think so personally

[nova sluice]

I would love a fail ending where Silk got what she wanted (could even be the ones on the files that are not being used)

[dry sparrow]

i dont think its that they were of no use, just that they died of old age in their cages and so gms went and looked further for more weaver descendants

[fallow zealot]

technically the first ending somewhat

why does gms want weavers

[maiden meteor]

First ending is basically Dark Souls fire rekindling in a sense that you usurp previous deity’s position

[ember river]

By the way, does First Sinner's cutscene show the creation of all weavers, of her, or what?

[dry sparrow]

like i think there was an early storyline where weavers were alive and holding GMS back but i don't think thats the case anymore and thats why they were removed from the game

[nova sluice]

Nah, I mean, full GMS sided

[maiden meteor]

Not certain

it is thought that Sinner might’ve been like a proto-weaver because she has different design

[fallow zealot]

where did silk come from even

[ember river]

Her mask seems broken

[rustic holly]

wdym different

[ember river]

It's a physical manifestation of soul IIRC

[fallow zealot]

before silk appeared pharloom lived in some kind of harmony

[ember river]

So GMS can probably produce it endlessly like the Pale King and White Lady can

[fallow zealot]

therefore, there exists a pre silk moment in history

[ember river]

Isn't that the surface village thing?

[fallow zealot]

we can see that easily by how we look when we bind her

[half dirge]

That scrapped ending or cursed ending gotta be the worst ones

[maiden meteor]

Weavers don’t have shoulder spikes for example

[fallow zealot]

the different factions i mean

[dry sparrow]

rewatching the scene, it just seems to mimmick the original creature's mask shape, so she was probably the first weaver. maybe its a reference to adam and eve lol

[ember river]

As in weavers and the pharloom bugs?

[maiden meteor]

Mask is a bit more arguable tho cause it might’ve been broken

[fallow zealot]

we can assume weavers look different sometimes, look at Herrah

[reef violet]

doesn't quite add up to 1, though also why would we add up lineage percentages?

[dry sparrow]

you see the mask start like that so its not broken

[ember river]

To my understanding, Pharloom bugs kinda usurped the weavers and took over the citadel

[maiden meteor]

tbf my theory is that Herrah also might’ve been some of the early designs

[fallow zealot]

wdym it doesn't add to 1

[dry sparrow]

do weavers normally have no 'arms'?

[fallow zealot]

they have 8

[maiden meteor]

nope

[dry sparrow]

is first sinner unique in only having legs then

[maiden meteor]

Weavers just passed their “duty” on Citadel and fled

[reef violet]

1/8 + 1/4 + 1/2 = 1/8 + 2/8 + 4/8 = 7/8

[fallow zealot]

idk probably they removed her arms or something as punishment

[ember river]

They have 8 limbs and use them as hands or legs

[reef violet]

oh shit two

[ember river]

I see

[fallow zealot]

there are two 1/8 ones

[nova sluice]

It's 2 1/8

[reef violet]

nvm

[ember river]

Also, about the citadel bugs, are conductors also machines or are those only architects?

The last edict of the conductors seems to point that way

[fallow zealot]

its clearly intentional

[maiden meteor]

Only architects

[dry sparrow]

from the cutscene where the little spider evolves into a weaver it starts without arms just those spikes

[ember river]

Unless I misread it

[proven bramble]

The coral and ant tribes existed before silk appered so possibly

[maiden meteor]

we see Conductor being on silk life support which implies hes alive

and not a machine

[fallow zealot]

he was alive until he wasnt

silk life support is so crazy

[nova sluice]

The world would be way better if the HBs could chill like Unn

But they keep trying to do schemes and rule

[maiden meteor]

Dude also had rune harp with basically entire Weaver plan towards citadel

which implies Conductors knew about true purpose

[ember river]

I'd say that could be the silk needed for the machine to keep working but then again you don't hear any cog like everywhere else with cogwork stuff

[fallow zealot]

there is a difference between normal HB and Pale Beings

like hornet says: "My species only allow for devotion or destruction" while refering to Silk

[ember river]

Pretty sure they definetely knew, doesn't bellador talk about taking the mantle from the weavers?

[maiden meteor]

I wonder if Radiance would fall under this statement

[fallow zealot]

absolutely

[maiden meteor]

we don’t really know much about how Rad was before her crashout

[fallow zealot]

it was like devotion from what we know, then the pale king stole all devotion to himself so rad decided to go for destruction

[ember river]

Also, do you think that GMS and Radiance are dead in the void? I certainly hope so or that'd make the whole "Darkness that will claim everything" rather underwhelming

[desert furnace]

Yo what if hallownest is our lawn and pharloom is the neighbors lawn

[nova sluice]

I know, I'm talking about HB
PK, Silk, Rad, Nightmare Heart
They are all weird

Unn is chill

[fallow zealot]

root is chill

[ember river]

The twisted bud parasite

[maiden meteor]

We know that Void can basically nullify soul

so it might take a while but eventually HBs are dissolved likely

[nova sluice]

That thing is terrifying

[fallow zealot]

void is the god of soul somewhat?
the snail shamans call void "their god"

[ember river]

The Pale King seems to have died to void as well, and to have been utterly erased

[cold solstice]

I get it now you cannot compare hornet and knight power

[maiden meteor]

Void isn’t really god because it has no mind

[cold solstice]

The knight is not stronger than hornet

[maiden meteor]

it just is

[ember river]

The Knight is an actual god and probably the strongest of them all

[fallow zealot]

i want some modder to port hornet into HK

[ancient scroll]

gms and weaver harmony -> weaver opression -> weaver snare gms -> weaver dominance -> weaver decline -> citadel/conductor usurpation -> constant music to lul gms -> eventual failure to keep gms asleep -> the haunting

[cold solstice]

Listen to me

[ancient scroll]

we don't know how "asleep" gms is

[maiden meteor]

yep

I wonder how and why void got to King

I mean “how” is obvious

[fallow zealot]

GMS is absolutely not asleep, she's just chilling

[cold solstice]

Each of them have their own abilities knight has power to harness soul hornet can harness silk

[maiden meteor]

we see void tendrils go from ground to Palace kingsmould

[fallow zealot]

silk is just physical soul

[maiden meteor]

so it probably invaded White Palace

[cold solstice]

And pharloom was silked by gms which gives her advantage over the knight

[ember river]

Seems to be from his workshop, probably kept trying something

The Wingsmould entry does say only a fool would believe themselves able to control the void

Also even if the tendrils didn't come from below the king placed the entire palace inside a void creature

Which isn't the smartest idea to begin with

[cold solstice]

The reason why the knight beat hornet in the first place is because her silk abilities is limited in hallownest

[maiden meteor]

I think void connected to White Palace via dead kingsmould and then usurped Palace’s kingsmoulds to kill King

[dry sparrow]

something i still dont understand. is hornet actually part weaver? was herra the beast part weaver? i thought she was supposed to be from another line?

[ember river]

He probably ran out of flowers and died, if the White Lady's dialogue is anything to go by

[fallow zealot]

after the true ending, we clearly see the vessels are absolutely not hollow. The Knight is the best brother ever

[maiden meteor]

Herrah is pure weaver and Hornet is half weaver

[ember river]

Isn't that the whole point of Dream No More and Embrace the Void?

[maiden meteor]

nope

[fallow zealot]

hornet is half weaver and half wyrm

[maiden meteor]

point of DNM is knight controlling void by their will

[ember river]

If they have will they aren't hollow

[hexed stump]

does hornet ever say shawwwwww in silksong?

[maiden meteor]

Void Heart “unites void under bearer’s will”

[dry sparrow]

but she looks nothing like a weaver, and that she was from a 'beast' bloodline instead of the weaver line. or was that retconned?

[fallow zealot]

not a single time

[maiden meteor]

Sinner kinda confirms weavers can vary and King probably just related to weavers as beasts

[hexed stump]

how come there are no riots?

[fallow zealot]

we dont have any written rules as to how weavers look like

[maiden meteor]

Hornet does talk about her beastly nature a lot

[ember river]

Generally big round heads but that can vary

[ancient scroll]

we've seen bugs morph dramatically over their lifetimes, vespa, karmelita and more
what stops herrah from being a morphed weaver?

[fallow zealot]

or just an old one

[whole holly]

how so?

[fallow zealot]

karmelita grows giant with the ages

[ember river]

Widow looks similar to Herrah face-wise

[whole holly]

because we don't have evidence?

[maiden meteor]

Sinner is a weaver and had different design from “conventional”

[fallow zealot]

and most bugs in the bestiary that are big are said by hornet that they grow "with time and food"

[whole holly]

widow is deformed

[fallow zealot]

it seems to be a convention that every bug can grow if they eat enough

[ember river]

Widow had her mask removed, masks are a pretty big deal in all the HK lore

[maiden meteor]

Herrah might’ve either been designed differently by GMS to start with or morphed somehow over time

[ancient scroll]

we don't have evidence for much in regards to herrah

[dry sparrow]

i wish we had a label for hornet's cage, like the other cages in the craddle. maybe then we could tell how much weaver hornet actually is. because to me it would seem obvious herrah the beast is at least only part weaver

[ember river]

Could be that herrah simply had a different mask or something

[whole holly]

yeah, that is what i wanted to say

[ember river]

We do

[maiden meteor]

her being Queen of Hallownest’s weavers might imply she was stronger than them

[proven bramble]

PK sadly was just a voidholic 💔

[fallow zealot]

id say herrah is just fat, and had to change masks

[dry sparrow]

where? what did it say?

i looked around for it and could not find it

[ember river]

It's one of the choral commandments that sends a full chamber to Hallownest

[whole holly]

most likely, dreamers mask are uniform shape and size, except eyes

[maiden meteor]

“Half-weaver, sensed strong with silk”

it talks about Hornet

[maiden meteor]

I think her size could be also related to the fact she’s stronger than average weaver

[whole holly]

are we fat shaming herrah now? why can't we accept her for being different

[iron raptor]

qq, do we know if the purpose of kidnapping Hornet was to "absorb" her or something related?

[maiden meteor]

cause I don’t see why’d weavers choose her a queen otherwise

[green yoke]

I would say this is actually the best argument I've heard yet

[maiden meteor]

maybe siphon her silk to sustain Lace

[stoic heath]

I just realized after Hornet binds Eva, she now has

[maiden meteor]

or use her to break the cage

[maiden meteor]

Deltasong

[ember river]

Honestly I'm not sure about the nature of all these communications

[dry sparrow]

im pretty sure its lace who breaks your cage

she's seem commanding the butterflies in deep docks and its a butterfly that breaks the rune cage

[ember river]

Were the citadel bugs still communicating and talking with each other normally after the Monarch took over?

[maiden meteor]

No I mean GMS wanted to use Hornet to break her cage

[whole holly]

is Hornet HB after binding eva, we know eva is semigod with frail form, hornet is demigod, with both their powers are they collectively HB?

[maiden meteor]

probably for a while at least

[fallow zealot]

Hornet
Daughter of Hallownest
Daughter of Three Queens
yet it wasnt on the desire of any that she should be Queen

[maiden meteor]

it would appear that at first GMS only controlled upper caste

[stoic heath]

Who know

[fallow zealot]

when i saw hornet is daughter of 3 queens i almost cried

[ember river]

That's been established since the first game

[maiden meteor]

Hornet has quite the portfolio

[maiden meteor]

naw, it was just implied by her kickstarted desc

[fallow zealot]

i didn't know hornet had any past in the hive before silksong

[ember river]

Wasn't it established that she was trained by Vespa?

[whole holly]

we should

[maiden meteor]

I don’t think we really saw any evidence for that

[fallow zealot]

and i 112% HK thrice so idk

[iron raptor]

Indeed, she is not able to apply for any job due to being overcualified lmao

[ember river]

I swear to god I heard that as lore somewhere

[maiden meteor]

only that WL was obviously acquainted with Hornet

[fallow zealot]

maybe, but i didnt see that mentioned in any lore video i watched

[ember river]

Child of a weaver and a wyrm is a strong start

[maiden meteor]

Employers looking at Hornet’s 100% filled Hunter’s Journal

[fallow zealot]

did that yesterday

pretty good that they rebalanced the bestiary, from 235 i had like 210 alr completed from playing naturally

[ember river]

Also, do you think lifeblood is purely a biological occurence or that there's a higher being behind it too?

[proven bramble]

The hunter journal felt way easier to do in ss than hk

[fallow zealot]

id say purely biological

[fallow zealot]

even with more unique enemies, i think they just balanced the amounts better

[iron raptor]

"Hire me or I'll do the 112%"

[ember river]

The alternative is Zote, Hornet is cooked

She's not getting that job

[fallow zealot]

mr mushroom says "To be continued"

i can only wait for Zoteboat

[dapper willow]

Hollow knight part 3 confirmed

Hollow Knight: Lacealot

[maiden meteor]

We see Lifeblood Creature in Abyss and Godhome but there’s no info on it

only that’s it’s called AbyssCreature in files or smth

[iron raptor]

Well, time to reproduce and train my child into playing these 2 games, I have plenty of time lol

[dry sparrow]

I feel like a game with lace would be too similar to silksong since its just gonna be silk abilities again lol

[near kestrel]

hornet also comments on lifeblood infection being similar to the radiance infection which could hint at a similar origin

[dry sparrow]

Now what about a game with the actual hollow knight

[fallow zealot]

tbh i wish one of the dlcs focuses on lifeblood, and controlling the spread of the infection

[ember river]

I find it funny that Hornet and GMS make so big of a deal over Lace being made of silk and getting sentenced to death in the void but literally nobody cares about Phantom

[fallow zealot]

wdym nobody cares

[proven bramble]

They are way too big 😭

[iron raptor]

A game with Sherma pls

[dry sparrow]

Phantom was peak i wish phantom had dialogue and more screen time

[maiden meteor]

that’s on Phantom honestly

all they do is aurafarm some and die

[ember river]

Maybe I killed him too late into the game so I skipped past the cutscenes where lace said something

[fallow zealot]

lace may not care, but hornet cares a lot

[ember river]

I didn't really find out that thing existed until I already beat the true ending

[near kestrel]

lace seems to care about phantom, they have some needolin dialog

[maiden meteor]

Lace did care

[dapper willow]

phantom could have used some dialouge

[maiden meteor]

we see Lace vision in Organ

[fallow zealot]

i know nothing about phantom

[maiden meteor]

so Lace def visited Phantom occasionally

[fallow zealot]

are the spectres lace prototypes?

[maiden meteor]

makes sense cause Phantom would be closest she had to family ever

[ember river]

Not really

[fallow zealot]

what are those

[maiden meteor]

more likely some weird Organ magic

[fallow zealot]

they're made of pure silk

and are hungry for it

[lapis geode]

I love the fact that at least, Phantom is regularly visited by Lace.
I thought she's already depressed and alone.

[maiden meteor]

maybe Phantom made those to protect mist back when they still had enough silk

[ember river]

Yeah, which is why I'm surprised there's no mention of her reaction to Phantom's death

[lapis geode]

Wait...
She is the one that guarding the mist?????

[maiden meteor]

I mean, she couldn’t really know probably

[fallow zealot]

wtf i need this phantom lore

[maiden meteor]

Organ is pretty secluded

[ember river]

I think they are like the unravelled, filaments of dead bugs that still linger

[fallow zealot]

the big ass organ stopped playing idk

[dry sparrow]

the wraiths in the mist are shaped like phantom. its safe to assume phantom is the one controlling the entire illusion

[lapis geode]

Well, she may imbued some of her power into the organ,
which turns into miss that covered the road

[lapis geode]

OOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

You explode my head!
I may never see that coming

[maiden meteor]

Yeah but Lace made her way from Deep Docks to Choral Chamber to Cradle

[maiden meteor]

so she wouldn’t come by Organ

[lapis geode]

My favourite boss so far.
I turn my damage to 50% just so I can fight her longer (with mod ofc)

Wish I can do it lower

[fallow zealot]

that doesn't tell me much, she clearly has alternative ways of moving, she got to the cradle without the elevator for example

[dry sparrow]

"Not a bug but a projection of another's will in smog and Silk."

"You are not wanted here!
Nothing for you... here...
Begone, begone!
Leave this place...
Those who wander... will die...
You will be lost..."

I think this would make this the only phantom dialogue

[maiden meteor]

Phantom also has needoline dialogue

[lapis geode]

...is she just talks about herself?
You are not wanted here!

dude

[fallow zealot]

i didn't manage to get their dialog with needolin due to skill issue

[maiden meteor]

So GMS basically just threw Phantom into Organ after they became obsolete

[tawny basin]

Chat i have a theory

Pharloom has a wyrm

[lapis geode]

Nooo...

[lapis geode]

.....EXPLAIN

has or HAD???

[tawny basin]

Since all civilisation requires a wyrm

[maiden meteor]

not at all

[near kestrel]

That's not established at all

[lapis geode]

That's not a strong point to be put.

[tawny basin]

Cause the bugs are not sentient

[ember river]

That is straight up not true

[maiden meteor]

Unn had civilization, Radiance har moth tribe, mantises were there long before the King

[ember river]

Hallownest had sentient bugs before the Pale King

[near kestrel]

It might be the case any large scale civilization has some kind of pale being but even then that's not established

[dry sparrow]

more like simple bugs needed a wrym to evolve them

[maiden meteor]

whole Hallownest being “last and only kingdom” is bs PK propaganda

[dry sparrow]

or well a higher being. which gms is

[tawny basin]

Pk?

[maiden meteor]

Pale King

[tawny basin]

Bruh

Right communism

Okay back to sitting around

[dapper willow]

The crust people and verdania and Karmelita didn't have higher beings

[lapis geode]

Chill, for someone that has foresight,
Imagine seeing sexy lady accros your kingdom with better technology from you.

I too will definitely cope with my own kingdom after saw that

[dry sparrow]

people complain about the state of pharloom but it's so fucking advanced technologically. they've got transport systems, massive citadels, electricity, steampunk technology

[tawny basin]

Once was but now is declining

[near kestrel]

Where did they have electricity? I must've missed that

[maiden meteor]

I don’t think Pharloom is even supposed to be a proper kingdom

[dapper willow]

and most of the people are dirt farmers either way

[maiden meteor]

basically everything in Pharloom exists just to sustain pilgrimage myth

[cold solstice]

Tbh the knight needs voidheart to beat radiance

[tawny basin]

I thought a bug worked tirelessly

[fallow zealot]

pale beings just happen to require devotion from normal bugs, and that devotion usually gets organized enough into a civilization

[dry sparrow]

but hallownest is just some medieval village in comparison

[lapis geode]

Yesss...
I'm surprised that Khann and Karmellita able to have their own civilization
without higher being.

Yet you need to question how Khann is able to control Corals and Karmellita is able to
bone-bending

[tawny basin]

To move the cogs

[dry sparrow]

hallownest had like 0 technology

[fallow zealot]

elevators

[near kestrel]

Trams

[fallow zealot]

sewers

[fair zealot]

what powers hallownest's elevators

[fallow zealot]

electricity

[lapis geode]

Crystal?

[dry sparrow]

probably some menderbug on a treadmill

how does hallownest have electricity

[fallow zealot]

monomon developed electricity from lumaflies

[neat sandal]

Electric bomb tool

[lapis geode]

No, don't disrespect Loam like that

[maiden meteor]

Mantises predated Hallownest and yet they have literally 0 powerful beings in their ranks

[winged badger]

@limber anvil something for you to look into. CaravanSpider
See if you can find anything? 👀

[dry sparrow]

is it not just more fireflies in glass

[maiden meteor]

Lords are just really good fighters

[dry sparrow]

pharloom has actual harvesting of purple electric powers

[lapis geode]

I mean at least we should admire how
they have some kind of power. Not just combat experience.

Same with bee kingdom, they only have warriors

[tawny basin]

Bro it's so hard to come up with plausible theory for this game

[winged badger]

Also there is something about killed flies while cursed? which is super random.

[dry sparrow]

and all the other stuff you guys mentioned pharloom has as well so

[fallow zealot]

what does that imply

[winged badger]

Caravan spider also has locations he goes to apparently.
I've found nothing about this online, and I tried to manually look for hidden things in the scene but couldn't find anything so

[near kestrel]

Pharloom does have more advanced technology, hallownest just isn't that primitive

[tawny basin]

Pharloom has electricity so it implies phones exist

Or radios

[fallow zealot]

surely

[dry sparrow]

hey do you happen to know what's going on on this seemignly unused room that appears on some of the full maps online

[lapis geode]

Khann & Karmellita need some recognition after what had happen to them.
They're not just a very good fighter but have some small power.

Khann spamming his coral is kinda funny for me. While Karmellita
definitely more skilled in combat, even compared to Hornet

[fallow zealot]

what does pharloom have that is considerably more technological than hallownest?

[maiden meteor]

Cogwork

[lapis geode]

Cogwork

[dry sparrow]

this is about the fly that captures you to the slab isn't it, if it does while cursed, you break the cage

[winged badger]

Not a clue, I tried going there myself manually and I saw no hidden scene transition or anything like that

[neat sandal]

Your dive bell have phone

[maiden meteor]

also do we count Weaver tech as Pharloom tech

[winged badger]

Oh that makes sense 👀
Yeah there is definitely one in each of those places.

[cold solstice]

We have confession machine in underworks

[fallow zealot]

white palace had tech

its not simple to move those sawblades

[maiden meteor]

tbh Hallownest also had these gramophone things in Gardens and Trams

[maiden meteor]

tbf Palace is like half-dream so you could probably shape it however you want

[coral wren]

Also how are you supposed to be kidnapped and taken to the slab
That never happened to me

[cold solstice]

Wait we have laser gun in crystal peak

[maiden meteor]

aren’t those just crystals shooting

[dry sparrow]

pharloom is straight up making sentient ai robots

[maiden meteor]

crystal golems are impressive though

[near kestrel]

Surely we are not meant to interpret the white palace as actually having hundreds of saw blades buzzing around during the prime of hallownest

[dry sparrow]

thats beyond even human technology 😭

[iron raptor]

Light refraction, could be a casualty due to their natural resources

[fallow zealot]

there is a bestiary entry where hornet wonders if hallownest had Underworks-like labor and she just didn't know

also in another bestiary entry she does say that pharloom has considerably more advanced mettalurgy

[maiden meteor]

I think Cogwork robots work by implanting soul within

[cold solstice]

Fr they got ai

[maiden meteor]

or some sort of soul constructs

[fallow zealot]

no

[cold solstice]

The second sentinel

[coral wren]

Whats the trigger to get kidnapped to the slab

[fallow zealot]

bestiary entries dont say that

[dry sparrow]

at least sentinel had a full on mechanical core powering it

[maiden meteor]

we have commandment about giving soul to cog

and we see soul butterflies leave defeated mechs

[proven bramble]

Hollownest has more spa points so it wins

[wispy phoenix]

Feel like hallownest is more magical with runes and stuff.
Pharloom feels more industrial and mechanical

[coral wren]

It sounds like a lot of people got kidnapped but i just missed it

[dry sparrow]

also is there any clue of what happened to the weavers that left hallownest for pharloom? are they just not mentioned at all? did they die on the way?

[neat sandal]

No. A two way phone. The one you can talk with dude over deepdock while you at abyss

[near kestrel]

I think cogworks are meant to be powered by soul/silk, probably part of why they keep those spools we can hit around

[maiden meteor]

"And lo, is eternity sustained. By Architect's claw, we welcome that final form, of dial and rotor, and soul gladly given.

The perfect, unfaltering voice."

[coral wren]

So what's the trigger?

[iron raptor]

So it is more advanced then, hollownest was just starting to test with soul things, they were trying there, while in Pharloom they succeed on giving soul to cogs

[maiden meteor]

King already had tech to implant things with soul tho

just instead of Cogwork it was void

[slate rapids]

How did I never catch on to Hornet having ties to the Hive before playing Silksong

[coral wren]

Whats the trigger for getting kidnapped to the slab?

[iron raptor]

Mmmh, but that was things of the king and white lady, here it seems more of a knowledge for everyone

[maiden meteor]

I think most of Citadel tech was in one way or another based on Weaver research

Architects were probably straight up created by Weavers

since Twelfth says no one is left with enough skill to create them

and I assume Twelfth is the most skilled crafter after Weavers themselves

[neat sandal]

Weaver have different design. Just look at servitor. Round thing shoot laser

[maiden meteor]

But servitors wouldn’t really fit grandeur of Citadel would they

[iron raptor]

Could be, but I don't see other wavers collaborating with the citadel business besides the one you find at Campbell and of course the final boss

[coral wren]

Getting kidnapped and taken to the slab is a myth lol

It doesn't actually happen

[maiden meteor]

Citadel is basically a myth created to impress and attract pilgrims

[dapper willow]

Me when I'm gaslighting someone:

[iron raptor]

So I assumed the Architects were a thing from the techminds of Pharloom

[maiden meteor]

so it makes sense everything there is over the top

[coral wren]

Then how does it happen?

[maiden meteor]

while actual weaver designs are more practical

[coral wren]

You gotta bait people into answeing you these days

[iron raptor]

Yeah, but that doesn't mean that all the weavers had something to do with that, we have many weavers homes under citadel

[maiden meteor]

you meet fly prison guard and let them catch you

[coral wren]

Where is he

[dapper willow]

Buh
One of the slab flyes catches you with a cage in hunter's march or Greymoor

[maiden meteor]

I think it would make sense weavers passed some old tech they had to Citadel

since they’re Citadel founders

[coral wren]

Huh ok

Those traps were easy to avoid

[iron raptor]

I mean, some had the tech to do this broken weapon, but I see it more in the way that the tech was stolen from them and used against them

[dapper willow]

There is a room in march you can only acces with wall cling
The guard is there

[maiden meteor]

I don’t think Citadel bugs turned on weavers until after construction was finished

plus we know for sure Citadel caste carried on Weaver’s business for a while after they fled/died

and only then GMS assumed control of Citadel caste and began weaver hunt

[dapper willow]

I think the architects branched off from the weavers

And they made some pretty damn impressive technology as well

[iron raptor]

Mmmh then maybe not citadel bugs but this final boss weaver I don't remember her name, she turned against all the weavers and mind control many bugs

[maiden meteor]

I think only place possibly built after weaver oppression began might be Whiteward

and even then those silk infusion experiments might’ve been actually approved by weavers themselves

[iron raptor]

Can't be very sure, someone kicked this npc the small fly that helps with the curse, if weavers approved the experiments they I don't see them kicking her out of the citadel

[maiden meteor]

her problem was probably a high lethality with no real benefit

same reason they closed tube transit basically

[iron raptor]

Is possible, she had some lethal ways to treat, but I don't see it hinted that she truly was having that many fatalities, and at the same time we had a record of One of the procedures that could hint that it was a procedure done multiple times and succeed in that last time

Making this specific procedure a one with more casualties

Maybe this procedure created Lace?

[ember river]

I believe they transported their soul into cogwork bodies

That or conductors is the only explanation for that one choral commandment

[fair zealot]

cogwork enemies do release a white butterfly thing whenever you kill them

[iron raptor]

Haven't noticed this one, could be indeed a wink that a soul is leaving the mechanical body

[wispy phoenix]

I thought it's because lumiflies are used for lighting up their eyes or some sort of optical sensory device 😂

Because it's historically used as light bulbs and lanterns

But that's just my own interpretation

[fair zealot]

hmm that could just be it lol

[wispy phoenix]

And when I noticed that I even went like holy shit TC included such an intricate detail

[dapper willow]

The nachines do have soul in them i think

[ember river]

They do

The clockwork dancers use green prince's lover's soul, that's why their journal entry mentions them feeling as if both of them share the same soul

And the normal cogwork worker entry mentions it feels too organic for a purely mechanical creation

[tiny stone]

So uhh, what was gms's deal?

[ember river]

Also the last edict of the conductors mentions "soul gladly given" to transfer their essence into mechanical bodies

[ember river]

Similar to radiance, higher being abandoned and trapped by her own kind and seeking release or revenge

Not as extreme though

[loud halo]

About the lumiflies, they guide you through the mist section between sinners road and bile, kinda like guiding souls maybe?

[tiny stone]

The weavers? In that cocoon i assume

[ember river]

The weavers trapped her in the cradle, yes

[tiny stone]

And she needed hornet to get revenge?

[dapper willow]

They need mystical bullshit as a crutch for the technology
Still mad impressive and I love it
Especially the music

[ember river]

I'm not sure of what the plan with the weavers was

I think she wanted to use them to expand their dominion or finally wake

[iron raptor]

Use them as batteries of silk maybe?

[tiny stone]

So, why did the weavers seal her?

[ember river]

They still can make normal technology, but try making something like the second sentinel with just cogs

[iron raptor]

Racism (?

[ember river]

Even if it's just as an energy source, silk is extremely useful

[tiny stone]

Wow

[ember river]

How can it be racism, GMS created them

It's the god of their race

[tiny stone]

The disgruntled weavers

[gray iris]

is grool a frog

[ember river]

I think they are still bugs

[iron raptor]

God can be racist, tho it wouldn't make sense

[ember river]

The only animal that isn't a bug may be the bird thing atop mount fay

[ember river]

Well, I'd assume GMS isn't racist against the race she explicitly created

[gray iris]

what about coral

[iron raptor]

Is it confirmed tho that she created that race?

[gray iris]

there is little coral guys

and a big coral guy

and jellyfish

hk1 have a jellyfish zone

[cursive sinew]

medium sized coral guy. Cant forget bro

[ember river]

What about it

[gray iris]

how they gonna put coral in my bug game

like they are not even underwater

such bullshit game design

[ember river]

Well we have plants and plants aren't bugs

[iron raptor]

I'm assuming that the coral tower and related used to exist long long ago when that place was underwater if that happened

[ember river]

Hell one of the most important characters of Hollow Knight isn't even a bug

[iron raptor]

I don't see why putting non bug things would be a bad design

Bugs don't have technology in real life or ancient magic

[wispy phoenix]

In my head canon they are just bugs that looks like aquatic creatures lol.

[dapper willow]

Im just saying their normal tech is not as advanced

[dapper willow]

Nop its a bug too

[ember river]

A bug that size, with feathers?

[dapper willow]

Yes

[gray iris]

why dont hornet just ride the bird to the top of the citadel to kill mother silk

[ember river]

What do you mean, then how did that moth cast a light beam at me yesterday

[iron raptor]

The size is not a good argument cuz is quite small, there are bigger skeletons that represent bugs in game, the feathers are your argument

[wispy phoenix]

Do we ever get any story expanding on that creature on top of Fay? It looks so majestic

[ember river]

The argument is a bug that big with feathers. Every other example of similar sized/larger bugs are clearly bugs with a shell

Like beetles of some sort

[dapper willow]

Well it has a shell too

[ember river]

It's worshipped or respected

[ember river]

It has a shell?

[dapper willow]

Look at its belly

[ember river]

Oh yeah

It is a bug

[gray iris]

yo this guy is actually right wtf

[dapper willow]

I'm always right 😎

[gray iris]

that is the freakiest shit i didnt even notice it

[deep elk]

I FINALLY FINISHED ACT 3!!! I CAN DISCUS THE GAME NOW!
Also, this channel is spoiler full no?

[deep elk]

Damn

[river charm]

Go wild

[gray iris]

the fucking pigeon is a bug wtf

[smoky locust]

Huh. Not a birb, just the signle most "we wish could make non bugs" bug in HK world.

[gray iris]

but jellyfish hk1

[deep elk]

YIPPEEEEE!! COZ WTF!!! I AM SO SURPRISED BY THIS!!!!

[gray iris]

and coral hk2

and worms

[ember river]

And here I was thinking it was a bird worshipped as a god for being a bird

[dapper willow]

They make slugs as well
And worms
And whatnot

[river charm]

Yeah I still have no clue what this means icl

Especially the to be continued screen after the ending

[gray iris]

yo thats hollow knight from hollo knoght 1

[high cosmos]

If the ghost wasn't in Silksong I would have honestly been very surprised

[deep elk]

So this pretty much means that ending 1&2 are non canon no?

[deep elk]

WAIT I MISSED THAT 😭

[whole hawk]

Replaying the game again I forgot that the citadel is mostly dead isn't it. GMS just brings all the bugs to life.

[river charm]

Mr mushroom ending addon

[deep elk]

OH

[smoky locust]

Worms are bug adjacent enough, Jellyfish are freaky artificial creations, slugs are bug adjacent. Bout the only thing that wouldn't be controlled by the protag of worm is the living root.

[deep elk]

THERE'S A MR MUSHROOM ENDING IN SILKSONG?!?!?!?!?!?!

[ember river]

It means DNM/EtV is the canon ending

[river charm]

Yss

[smoky locust]

And the shrooms.

[deep elk]

OMG- LMAO I'LL GET IT LATER

[high cosmos]

I hate the quote where TC said all endings are canon, cuz that just obviously feels like a misunderstanding of what they meant

[river charm]

Im just confused on like

Does to be continued mean, a new game or a new act

[ember river]

It means the universe can still be expanded upon

If they want

[deep elk]

I think it's pretty much a false statement now no?

[dapper willow]

it was like 7 years ago
They changed their mind it seems

[smoky locust]

It means there will be a continue. You don't need to put in any quarters either.

[dapper willow]

its not like team cherry can't make more hk games

[high cosmos]

No I think they're just going against the kinda game theory idea of "lore" where there's only one correct answer

[ember river]

I think it's like ULTRAKILL having no set canonicity for the Prime Souls dying for example

[high cosmos]

I think they just mean to say that at the end of the day, whatever ending you want to be canon can be canon

They're all endings, sure in Silksong it obviously follows a certain ending, but that doesn't mean the other HK endings are useless now

[deep elk]

I have not finished Ultrakill.

[ember river]

It's not even finished

[river charm]

It kinda does lol

[whole hawk]

TC also said that they designed Silksong with similar difficulty to HK. Or that Silksoul mode will be a thing (probably what Act 3 is). Don't think too hard about stuff they said more than half a decade ago.

[smoky locust]

I like to think Ending 1 od Silksong is my canon. Hornet will be a better god and half the cast doesnt die.

[river charm]

Someone's fantasies and what acc happens is alot diff 😭

[deep elk]

I have not finished the current game contents.

[ember river]

Well these things I mentioned are being actively used for marketing so if you've managed to avoid them I'm sorry for spoiling them for you, but you can probably see why I wasn't that careful

[lucid dirge]

so uhh do you guys think we will ever get any mention of thk in future dlc since its basically confirmed embrace the void is the canon ending?

[whole hawk]

The only thing we can be sure of is steel assassin dlc because sharpe is a backer boss.

[ember river]

It's a similar difficulty step to HK... If you've already beaten HK's hardest challenges

[river charm]

Maybe maybe

[ember river]

Not necessarily EtV

[high cosmos]

It's all a fantasy tbf, I hate how lore has been boiled down into like a historical record of accounts, and not appreciating an art form for what it is

[dapper willow]

mikksong

[ember river]

Keep in mind the lord of shades is just the Knight with the Void Heart, the big creature from Godhome is just its final form

[river charm]

Sure but one is a Canon and one is a headcanon the thing ur describing litt has a name

[ember river]

Kinda like how Radiance isn't as strong as Absolute Radiance

[lucid dirge]

idk i feel like the shade lord appearing just gives it away

[ember river]

Again, it's the exact same thing

[lucid dirge]

if it was just the dream no more ending then i doubt he would have appeared even if for just a second

[ember river]

The giant corpses in the abyss refer to you as lord of shades

[drowsy mortar]

It’s the Knight with Void Heart given focus by the Godseekers so no

[ember river]

Regardless of your ending

[drowsy mortar]

Not the same

Shade Lord’s actual name is Void Given Focus

[dapper willow]

Its all the siblings and the void combined

That is what I think

[ember river]

Again, same reason why Absolute Radiance is stronger

It's still the Radiance with Radiance powers

[drowsy mortar]

We call it Shade Lord as a nickname

[ember river]

The actual entity is the same

[fair zealot]

i feel like the flashing of the big void fella is a way of communicating that it could be either or

[iron raptor]

Most likely drugs, but I will need a journey entry to be sure

[drowsy mortar]

It’s the radiance in it’s prime

[lucid dirge]

yea but u still dont become that until etv

[dapper willow]

People coming at me for calling the Void given focus Shadelord for the millionth time:

[drowsy mortar]

So not weakened by the seals

Lore wise she is much stronger

[dapper willow]

honestly that is a very good name
I may adopt it

[ember river]

I feel like they included that short flash to imply it's either

[drowsy mortar]

It’s canonically the Void given focus

[ember river]

In any case it doesn't really matter

[ember river]

I've always felt a bit confused by what "focus" meant there, focus as in what the knight does to gather soul, or focus as in purpose

[coral totem]

earlier got this theory that elder hu may be connected to shakra in some way seeing his rings n all

there's a shot he may have known shakra's master and picked up a few small tricks, thoughts?

[lucid dirge]

i think it has to do with the godseekers attunement ritual

[drowsy mortar]

Focus as in purpose, desire, unified mind

[lucid dirge]

which is why he only appears in godhome (same thing with absrad)

[dapper willow]

I guess all the godseekers beamed their minds at the knight and he turned into a Big Fella

[ember river]

The people of their tribe leave for lands beyond to keep fighting, it's possible he could have come from that tribe

[drowsy mortar]

This is achieved by Godseeker’s ritual

[lucid dirge]

like radiance still appears in the nongodhome endings but i mean that only through attunement do we fight her in her prime

[river charm]

Godseek these nuts

[coral totem]

that's very true, there's a good shot elder hu was indeed from the tribe shakra and her master originated from

[whole hawk]

Is Shakra even from Pharloom

[ember river]

That's why I think the void given form is still a weaker form of the same, unified void

[river charm]

No

[whole hawk]

Doesnt seem like it from what I remember

[coral totem]

no

[river charm]

He and her master came from some weird ass land

[coral totem]

she greets the player with "POSHANKA" and then says it's how she greets people from her land, so clearly not from pharloom, and most likely not hallownest either

fuck it, give us a shakra prequel 🙏

[whole hawk]

So we have like three or four unknown kingdoms or regions still. Shakra's homeland, Zemer's/Everbloom's homeland, City of Steel, and wherever you think Zote is from.

[river charm]

Hollow Knight: The Throwing Ring

[river charm]

More

Land of storms as well

[ember river]

The everbloom can probably grow in other places

[coral totem]

zote is from hell and he clearly got kicked out for being too dislikable trust 🙏

[ember river]

The White Lady had at least one

[dapper willow]

Now I wonder how the HK planet looks like

Is there any chance of a bug space program?

[ember river]

Zote was the last attempt of the Pale King at killing the radiance, born of god and annoyance, it shall drive the light that haunts their dreams to suicidal madness

But his annoyance was too much for the Pale King so he drank void until he dissolved

[whole hawk]

the craziest lore drop in the game is still the fact that pharloom is just underground again

[coral totem]

on a serious note

[whole hawk]

all this talk gassing up the peak of the citadel and turns out its under some small ass town

[dapper willow]

Not really
I never expected it to be above ground
because we are clearly in a cave

[ember river]

It's probably around the same heigth as Hallownest, if the level of the abyss is consistent

[vivid kernel]

mushroom man is nasa

[dapper willow]

Pharloom is probably inside a mountain tbh

Because it has a whole lava layer above the abyss

[ember river]

I've heard theories that it's a volcano due to the lava

[dapper willow]

The world shakes when you are in the lava areas and it gives me the chills

[coral totem]

does silksong reveal the origins/potential origins of any other dream warriors? (example: elder hu is most likely from shakra's tribe, seeing he uses the rings n all (theory))

[ember river]

I also think Pharloom also lasted far longer than Hallownest, hence why their development was much more advanced

[ember river]

The elder hu thing is pure speculation

[coral totem]

yeah mb forgot to say it's a theory lmao

[ember river]

It's not baseless but it's far from being confirmed

[lapis geode]

DAISAN NO BAKUDAN!

[ember river]

They do wear similar attires and are nomads so I like that idea

[dapper willow]

we know the origins of the other dream warriors too so its whatever

elder hu was one of the more mysterious ones

[ember river]

Gorb

I'm also curious about the crimes against the king that Xero got executed for

Did he try to kill the Pale King and was obliterated or something

[lapis geode]

Maybe try to assassinate him but got caught

WAIT...

[ember river]

I mean, good luck asassinating the Pale King

[whole hawk]

Thats hard to tell though honestly. A big point the lore tried to make is how Pharloom had access to tons of metalworks and silktek

[lapis geode]

Is this prove that at least one person in Hallownest try to beheaded Pale King?
I mean, I thought only Pharloom has a scenario where their own creation
are want you to be sealed like Kyuubi

[coral totem]

seeing the people from shakra's tribe tend to travel a ton in their lives, there's a shot elder hu simply settled in hallownest for the last remaining years of his life

they dress similar too, with the gold

[ember river]

They essentially had access to a god as an energy source and life extension

And free metal from the lava

Hallownest was starting to mine crystals and build automatons with them

[grand kayak]

I do wonder about the city of steel and the steel watchers masters

[ember river]

Like the golem we get the crystal dash from

[dapper willow]

the games need more robot areas

The cog core is so small

[ember river]

There were probably some enemies, but the thing is to kill a pale being you need a lot of power

[ember river]

It's one of my favorite areas

[coral totem]

do y'all think hallownest woulda been WAY more advanced if not for the radiance? (took a lot to contain, 3 dreamers, and the whole abyss thing with the kids)

[lapis geode]

Indeed.
But one point you should admire is that no Hallownest citizen or
Pale King creation make a plan to subdue their own creator.

We gotta admit, dude people is more loyal.
Maybe except Xero

[whole hawk]

Weavers just seemed more inclined to do dumbass shit though to be fair. They tried to make an artificial god. Pale King did some wack stuff too but he never tried to do something as absurd as the Whiteward. Spul Sanctum only went crazy after the infection after all.

[ember river]

I think it could have surpassed pharloom if given enough time and the Pale King kept going at it

[coral totem]

yeah, radiance really fucked it up 🥀

[ember river]

To be fair, the Pale King was already immortal

He didn't really care about life extension

[coral totem]

how DID the pale king die exactly? I don't remember

[fair zealot]

I'm not sure, it seems a lot of the pale king's technology was driven by the plans to contain the radiance (study of void, seals, etc)

[ember river]

Void got him

[lapis geode]

Without Radiance, Hallownest will be eternal

[grand kayak]

Its unclear

[ember river]

Well, technically unconfirmed but it's 99% void

[dapper willow]

soul sanctum was only "normal" because the pale king was against their crazyness until the infection hit
So I guess there are crazies in every kingfom

[whole hawk]

Pharloom INSTANTLY buckles to the Radiance.

[coral totem]

what if that focus was on more useful stuff instead though? like, similar to pharloom

[ember river]

There are void particles inside the white palace and the godseeker talks about him being utterly erased

[grand kayak]

Idk? Can a bug be both infected and silk haunted at the same time?

[ember river]

They did have giant automatons powered by the pink crystals

[coral totem]

i kinda wanna see grandmother silk and the radiance interact icl, i wonder if they'd straight up just throw hands

[light saddle]

Eh, I think that goes against the themes of the game tbh

[ember river]

I think they'd ironically last a bit longer due to the competing powers inside the bugs' minds

But as a kingdom it will 100% collapse immediately

[light saddle]

The whole point was that the Pale King’s quest for eternity was futile

[lapis geode]

Why?
To be fair, Radiance and Void is the cause of Hallownest problem,
Pale King is a good leader. While Pharloom has that terrible queen.

[ember river]

Calling the Pale King a good ruler is stretching it a bit

[lapis geode]

It's futile because he bumps another being.
If Radiance is chill, no such thing happen

[whole hawk]

The only thing that could have salvaged Pharloom early on is if the White Wyrm arrived there early and just impregnated GMS. No Weaver nonsense, no Radiance, true eternal kingdom.

[ember river]

I don't think he was as ill intentioned as other higher beings but he was kind of incompetent at long term planning

[whole hawk]

But he didnt so hey

[ember river]

Which, mind you, is rather important if your definition of long term is actual eternity

[grand kayak]

Not really. He seems pretty great as a leader. He's just a shitty dad

[whole hawk]

Hallownest had a genuine golden age

[lapis geode]

LOL.
Look at the size difference bro

[ember river]

He secluded the capital city and let it starve

[coral totem]

do you think the child of PK and GMS would be stronger then his kid with herrah? (hornet)

[lapis geode]

YES!
A good king but terrible father

[ember river]

It would be hornet+++

[grand kayak]

Yeah. Hornet is only half god. That child would be full god

[light saddle]

The Pale King isn’t perfect either. He makes (often) one-sided deals with his neighbors, allows for maggot slavery, and hypes up Hallownest as the only kingdom around when we know that isn’t true.

Just because he’s not as bad as Pharloom’s queen doesn’t mean he’ll succeed. Nothing lasts forever

[lapis geode]

Don't stretch it.
That child will able to regenerate silk like never before,
and have some foresight.

[coral totem]

ain't he got a true form or sum? thought the one we see is the form he picked so he could look more trustable n stuff to the people

[earnest acorn]

i really want to know the lore of this guy

[ember river]

Wyrms can apparently discard shells to become new forms

[coral totem]

theater kid

[lapis geode]

That's fair. But at least he doesn't got betrayed from the inside

[ember river]

I wish we got to see a wyrm at some point

[whole hawk]

That said the chances of Pharloom failing in a setting where PK hooked up with GMS is high too. What happens is they'll probably have a ton of kids vying for power and eventually rebelling against their parents.

[earnest acorn]

fire

[whole hawk]

Nature of a wyrm.

[coral totem]

i really wanna learn more about wyrms tbh

[lapis geode]

This kiddo believe one thing that can cure Pharloom
is to cure them for boredom. Hence the theatre theme here.

[ember river]

Isn't the point of mr mushroom just telling us that all kingdoms eventually crumble?

[light saddle]

He already has been betrayed from the inside. Xero turned his blade against the king. He was defeated, but there very well could be more to follow had Hallownest lasted longer.

[grand kayak]

So did Grimm not show up because pharloom is still kinda kicking and not just dead yet

[grand kayak]

Only Mr. Mushroom is eternal

[ember river]

Or he had some other place to haunt

[lapis geode]

That 100% will happen since both are terrible parents.
I think the reason Hornet is growing to be a good figure is because Herrah & The White Lady.
And the bee that trains her.

Pale King don't do shit

[coral totem]

maybe? i mean the true ending ends as if it isn't really over, implying he still has room to appear in future dlc

[lapis geode]

Oh yeah, forgot about that guy

[ember river]

I think the Pale King wasn't that bad of a father when he actually cared

[earnest acorn]

fire

[coral totem]

problem is that wasn't really often

[grand kayak]

Tbh I'd rather something new instead of just Grimm again. Although hornet actually talking to Grimm would be neat

[deep elk]

All good. I kinda just stopped playing the game lol. dunno if I'll pick it up again.

[ember river]

He didn't seem to hate the Hollow Knight or treat him as a tool, but he was too absort in his own failed machinations

[coral totem]

i mean it's the GRIMM troop, i doubt anyone other then him leads it

[lapis geode]

I can say the same with GMS.
Girl really loves her daughter..

Except Phantom

[grand kayak]

I mean just not have the Grimm troupe as the dlc

[light saddle]

I’m sure he cared at least somewhat. But being a god-king probably ate up all his time

[ember river]

People forgetting about phantom will never not be funny to me

[coral totem]

oh yeah lol, though that does bring up the question of WHAT is going to be the dlc

[silver spire]

if tha were to happen, i hope that they do it post true ending

[coral totem]

and how much dlc are we gonna get

[ember river]

He probably still had eternity in mind at that point, no matter how many people he sacrifices, an infinitely larger amount will benefit from that in the long run

[silver spire]

similar to how they had act 3 be accessed AFTER the snare ending

[grand kayak]

Presumably we get godhome

[coral totem]

(and will we have a version of godhome)

[ember river]

Of course, he failed

[lapis geode]

Bro, imagine you realize you perhaps is the only Wyrm alive... for about thousands kilometer away,
there's no Wyrm besides you.

He leads alone, and he realize the place where he recite will be crumble anyway.
Yet he still try to save some of his people. Giving a silent consolation for the inevitable.

[coral totem]

funnily enough a godhome mod released like, today for skong

[grand kayak]

Hornet can actually shit talk the godseeker back too

[silver spire]

i hope that they have grimm troupe be after the true ending of act 3, that way we might even have an act 4 or such

[whole hawk]

We'll pobably get some wacky weaver version of godhome as DLC.

[coral totem]

gosh I wanna see that cro

[ember river]

I doubt he's the last wyrm

[whole hawk]

Like high tech fantasy scifi nonsense but how you have records of all the bosses you fought.

[lapis geode]

I mean around...
Like, maybe there is another Wyrm but they recites for over miles away

[coral totem]

I do wonder though

if we get godhome and pantheons, who're we going to get as the "final bosses"? (the nailmasters, sly, yknow)

[lapis geode]

What he needs to do???
Walk there???

Nahhh...
better save this kingdom

[grand kayak]

Sherma boss fight

[ember river]

The snails

[light saddle]

Of course he did. I don’t think there was ever a moment where the Pale King didn’t want eternity — rather that despite his wishes, his kingdom would meet its end eventually.

[lapis geode]

PHANTOM

WITH THE MISTTTT

[grand kayak]

Realistically tho. Shakras dead master is a good pick

[lapis geode]

since she controlled them, y'know?

[coral totem]

phantom was a boss though

[whole hawk]

Widow, Last Judge, First Sinner, Phantom, GMS, Karmletia, Crust King, and the Knight all deserve DLC superbosses.

[lapis geode]

She will be better option than ZOte

[ember river]

Adding the knight as the boss would do him dirty

[grand kayak]

Twelfth architect maybe?

[whole hawk]

Oh and the Cogwork Dancers need their own Sisters od Battle buff too

[lapis geode]

Ooohh, you met Khann (Crust King) already?

[ember river]

I NEED THAT

[dapper willow]

OMG

The modders are insnae

I wonder if someone is going to make a hard mod for silksong

[coral totem]

khann honestly got done dirty, he's so cool visually but oh my god i've died to bellbeast more

[ember river]

Wait what if we fought the rulers of the citadel in a triple bossfight

[lapis geode]

WAIT. Lemme check.
NExus mod right?

[ember river]

So a conductor, the pontiff and an architect

[grand kayak]

That bird on mount fay could be a good godhome boss

[coral totem]

we already got an abyss infused act 3 first sinner mod, yet to test it

[lapis geode]

Try the bird over the mountain

[coral totem]

yeah nexus

[lapis geode]

or Smith Daughter

[grand kayak]

Savager beastfly

[ember river]

It seems too gentle to be a boss

[ember river]

Savage beastfly king

[coral totem]

forge daughter is a good pick

[whole hawk]

We also nee a PoP that uses every single platforming mechanic and obstacle in the game and ends with a Ori-style escape sequence.

[lapis geode]

https://www.nexusmods.com/hollowknightsilksong/mods/261

Warning: This mod could corrupt your save data, use at your own risk!

How to use:

While this mod is loaded, no data will be saved, to prevent corruption or loss of progress in case of using on a main save. If you would like to enable saving, please first disable or remove this mod from your plugins folder.

The default key to open the menu is B. You can change the keybind by going to the BepInEx config folder and replacing the Key listed under Toggle Menu. The Key listed is case-sensitive, and must be a Capital Letter, example: Toggle Menu = L will set the keybind to L.

It is highly recommended to use the 100% save file provided in the zip, to prevent causing issues.

Selecting a Boss will take you to the closest point to the Boss that can be achieved purely through Scene Loading. This in most cases will take you straight to the boss, but there are some exceptions. "Safe Zone" is a bench scene to allow you to configure your loadout, or heal.

[drowsy mortar]

She’s dead tho

[ember river]

Summons savage beastflies as adds

[ember river]

Wait phantom's a she?

[grand kayak]

The sign in front of it says that the bird kills some of the people who come for a blessing. It just judged hornet worthy

[coral totem]

the mod provides you with a 100% save file dw it won't corrupt anything

[grand kayak]

Lace calls phantom her sister so yeah

[ember river]

Oh. Yeah that makes sense

[drowsy mortar]

Possibly based on a memory we see by her tube

[lapis geode]

So I need to make new slot for it?

[ember river]

I thought that was phantom talking to lace

[coral totem]

what if in the pantheon of pharloom we get a double savage beastfly fight

[coral totem]

possibly? didn't check yet

[grand kayak]

Phantom was in the tube idk how she would've said that

[ember river]

You see both silhouettes

[grand kayak]

Eva boss fight idk.