sk-lore

[silk dirge]

damn i missed the part of the charm that lets me do that in hk

[rain spindle]

Im only counting knight cause of shade lord and voidheart

[silk dirge]

it does for the endings but it doesnt give you

[dry heart]

she says "prove to me you are ready to claim this kingdom's past, and face the responsibilities... bla bla... ill not hold back"

[silk dirge]

complete control like the knight cant just pull up void whenever they want

[rain spindle]

Gameplay and lore are not the same. Even then the shades stop attacking you

[maiden meteor]

I wonder what Knight’s up to casually

[hybrid portal]

"So you'd pursue the deeper truth? It isn't one the weak could bear.
Prove yourself ready to face it. I'll not hold back. My needle is lethal and I'd feel no sadness in a weakling's demise."

[lavish tangle]

So you'd pursue the deeper truth? It isn't one the weak could bear.

Prove yourself ready to face it. I'll not hold back. My needle is lethal and I'd feel no sadness in a weakling's demise.

Show me you can accept this Kingdom's past and claim responsibility for its future.

yeah she does say so

[dry heart]

wow i am genuinely surprised i remembered this tbh, other than the 1st time i read it i skipped dialogue on other playthroughs 😭

[quick cairn]

daft question can we possibly know what kind of spider is Hornet ?

[rain spindle]

Weaver

[lavish tangle]

if you mean irl then no she only has 4 limbs (maybe 6)

[quick cairn]

ye I meant this, I knew she is a half Weaver

[rain spindle]

Shes a spider with disabilities

[lavish tangle]

idk she seems to be able to generate limbs on command

[quick cairn]

the wyrm blood is running strong

[maiden meteor]

tbf HK barely stick to real life insects

[thorny brook]

Does she get 6, 8, or 10 after Act2 ending?

[lavish tangle]

(the tool pack that allows back dash and act 2 ending)

[lavish tangle]

I think 6?

[maiden meteor]

Does GMS have 3 or 4 limbs

[lavish tangle]

6

[quick cairn]

she has 6 limbs what??

[lavish tangle]

4 arms 2 legs

(she doesn't use her legs but you can see em)

[thorny brook]

She has legs?

[dry heart]

uhm im pretty sure that's just from her absorbing grandmother silk's power? if im not mistaken, she evolved

also the tool has artificial limbs iirc

[quick cairn]

aint' gonna lie fam, she lowkey has 3

[sharp hawk]

The legs be the scissor things at the bottom of her body

[lavish tangle]

nevermind 4 + 1 leg

[dry heart]

its very interesting to me how grandmother silk has a human-like-face

[lavish tangle]

(she pulls out more arms later)

[quick cairn]

where are the other 2 arms ?

[thorny brook]

She has more in the 3 hit animation

[sharp hawk]

What about that 3 mask attack she has 6 arms in there

[lavish tangle]

wait thats true

[grand kayak]

She doesnt have a face its just blank

[quick cairn]

like I wanna see them but where are the other pair of arms

[dry heart]

well, rather, human-like-face-shape

[rain spindle]

Chat hear me out

[lavish tangle]

7.5 limbs 6 arms in an attack + the 1.5 legs

[thorny brook]

Real

[dry heart]

https://tenor.com/view/omg-gif-6625327161643993974

[quick cairn]

same but like where

[thorny brook]

Problem solved

[quick cairn]

are the arms

[sharp hawk]

Not agreeing with you 100% but the radiance and GMS Yuri would go crazy I feel

[rain spindle]

...Radiance is a girl?

[maiden meteor]

GMS design is kinda creepy ngl

[thorny brook]

That’s an insane thought

[rain spindle]

I thought she was genderless

[quick cairn]

YESSIR

Radiance is a she

[sharp hawk]

I always assumed she was ???

[maiden meteor]

Human-like head shape, crossed arms in default animation

[dry heart]

radiance is always referred to as "She"

[maiden meteor]

combine it with her theme having Dies Irae

[sharp hawk]

But I guess she is lmao

[rain spindle]

Okay that makes sense

Do yall think the shade lord created the snail shamans?

[quick cairn]

nah

[lavish tangle]

nah

[rain spindle]

Like radiance with the moths or unn with the mosskin

[maiden meteor]

while Radiance feels more godlike I’d describe GMS as straight up alien

[thorny brook]

No

[quick cairn]

Shade Lord is a very recent eee thing

[rain spindle]

Didnt he exist in the ancient civilization?

[lavish tangle]

do we know for a fact GMS made the weavers or is this assumption

[maiden meteor]

nope

[dry heart]

bro not gonna lie i genuinely hope if we get a dlc, it brings back godhome. hot take but its very VERY nice to be able to fight bosses and make them all radiant, as an endgame thing so people can come back every once in a while and reexperience fights without having to go through the entire game

and imagine we get an ending where hornet genuinely interacts with the void for whatever reason due to the attunement!?@#

[lavish tangle]

no the knight made him

[rain spindle]

First sinner cutscene

[austere coral]

yea she is:D Best girlie, other than yk the infection stuff that maybe wasn’t aaall too good

[quick cairn]

it's a fact

[thorny brook]

The thought of their existence maybe

[lavish tangle]

I believe you but where do we know this

[maiden meteor]

Ancient civilization worshipped void as lack of anything

iirc Lemm said “they worshipped no god”

[quick cairn]

First Sinner fight, cutscene after we defeat it

[lavish tangle]

thx

[sharp hawk]

Nah we gotta have a godhome/godhome equivalent for this game I NEED TO PLAY THESE BOSSES MORE MAN THEY'RE SO ADDICTIVE

[thorny brook]

Hornet is void confirmed

[quick cairn]

that's a dedication right here, beutiful

[lavish tangle]

GIVE ME GODHOME OR GIVE ME DEATH (my death that is)

[quick cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/limbus-company-gif-501081621266469291

[rain spindle]

Wait

Can the knight like

Have kids?

[quick cairn]

no

[lavish tangle]

no genderless

[thorny brook]

Bad.

[lavish tangle]

no organs to speak of (like actually maybe none at all)

[quick cairn]

no more like, they are dead and are just a vessel

[maiden meteor]

I guess Shade Lord probably could make something alike weavers

just pump some bugs with void

[austere coral]

I don’t think Hornet would ever interact with the void in that way, seeing as she’s really got nothing to do with it other than maybe being more resistant because of her nature and experience. Maybe attunement would mean she could dispel it in some way, or she could interact with Shade Lord

[thorny brook]

He could probably pull a Pale King

[lavish tangle]

idk maybe siblings but thats a stretch

[edgy river]

Maybe as shade lord he can create beings of void or smth like that

[quick cairn]

Shade Lord suddenly has a gender ?

[rain spindle]

Pump hornet lace cornifer all its friends with void

[lavish tangle]

act 3

[edgy river]

Genetically, no

[quick cairn]

I thought void is genderless in every meaning of this word

[maiden meteor]

Shade Lord is BBW

[green yoke]

I would assume since the Vessels are very specifically non-gendered, that they lack any kind of marker or reproductive qualities

[dry heart]

bro ngl the silksong endings were nice but i doubt thats all the endings team cherry has planned for it, i mean we involved the void and everything just for it to only save hornet oin the end and thats all

[rain spindle]

Im assuming they can give themselves as genders

[lavish tangle]

is lord a genderred word? if it is can we call shade lord a he?

[quick cairn]

I mean maybe?

[thorny brook]

I like to think of them as a male

[rain spindle]

Shade lord is a fanon name

[sage flame]

I think we deserve Deepnest an apology. It wasn’t that bad

[austere coral]

she doesn’t meaningfully ’interact’ with it there though, does she. Moreso fight it

[lavish tangle]

me too but because of translation

[rain spindle]

Mossbag named him bill

Which is a male gender ig

[lavish tangle]

oh

[edgy river]

I think it's used as default since there isn't a word that means the same thing but genderless

[thorny brook]

Nah. I still hate it more than Bilewater.

[dry heart]

the only raeson vessels have no gender is because the void cleaned their insides out. Its not because theyre non binary

[quick cairn]

iirc that's how it is named in game files

[sage flame]

You are crazy

[edgy river]

Like how mantis Lords are "lords" because one of the 4 were male

[silk dirge]

thats wild

[sharp hawk]

Bilewater runback is so much worse 🙏🙏🙏 thank god I personally didn't struggle with groal much but GOD. god...

[silk dirge]

deepnest is nowhere near as bad as bilewater

[maiden meteor]

actually ShadeLord is its file name

[edgy river]

I love both for the same reason

[silk dirge]

apology owed the soul sanctum:
you guys actually were kinda cooking whiteward is way freakier

[quick cairn]

hating Deepnest more than Sinner's Road and Bilewater is crazy

[lavish tangle]

deepnest was not bad I never understood why people hated it

[rustic holly]

sinner's road is unironically worse than bilewater im ngl

[karmic sonnet]

i'm aching to play the game with all my tools and crests. if we could also downgrade the needle, masks and spools it would be peak

[rustic holly]

bilewater enemies arent that bad compared to the fucking muckmaggots

[thorny brook]

Sinners road is worse, Bile water is better

[sharp hawk]

Low-key I like groal purely because the VS in his fight was such a cool surprise I was like "oh shit!!! Hollow knight reference" and then I lost my first attempt because I was pogging at the VS

[maiden meteor]

Deepnest was just a tiny glimpse of what would become Bilewater

[dry heart]

well, in historical titles, if men were claled "Lords" for women that title is just "ladies". (lord --> Lady)

So uh, mantis ladies wouldn't fit well 😭

[edgy river]

This

[austere coral]

I actually kinda like Bilewater

[edgy river]

Bilewater is safe the enemies are fine and respawn you can grind out silk when low and just keep living. Sinners road is ONSANE

[dry heart]

im pretty sure if you just use the double heal tool it completely fixes this issue

[quick cairn]

I'm on this boat with you as I've 2nd tried Groal

[thorny brook]

It took me 4 tries with needle 0 no tools

[silk dirge]

how the fuck

[maiden meteor]

yeah but it’s basically filler location

[lavish tangle]

just use the anti muckmaggot tool

[lavish tangle]

required for act 3

[edgy river]

They are Mantis Lords because that group name was given when the Traitor Lord was still with them

In case of multiple or no gender the default is Lord

[silk dirge]

who is finding putrified ducts before bilewater 😭

[sharp hawk]

Nahhh bilewater has more muck in it - worst part about sinners road are the muck roaches (annoying but avoidable) and the chamalet guys. The chamalet guys suck ill give you that one

[dry heart]

do you even have that at that point in the game? i didnt 😭

[maiden meteor]

I mean Road

[rustic holly]

the anti muckmaggot tool you find in putrified ducts likely several hours after sinner's road

[rain spindle]

You can have

[lavish tangle]

me :) I did that before groal

[sharp hawk]

Me ✋

[maiden meteor]

you probably pass it once and the twice for Gourmet quest

[rain spindle]

Go through memorium get to the side and enter putrified ducts

[maiden meteor]

while you have to defeat Groal to progress story

[thorny brook]

Got to that point because i’m a fool and didn’t see the obvious needle upgrades, beat it from baby strats

[rustic holly]

timothee chalamet guys are fine honestly i didnt mind any of the enemies in sinner's road but the roaches which are satan's curse upon mankind

[jovial ridge]

My dumbass

[rain spindle]

Me too ngl

[hybrid portal]

the roaches arent even that bad

[maiden meteor]

roaches have literally Elden Ring grab attack

[hybrid portal]

just dash backwards

[rain spindle]

Bikewater was the last area i went to

I got the double jump too late

[sharp hawk]

I'm just bad at dodging their stupid spike thingiess

[lavish tangle]

I just hate the bilewater enemies the ones who throw darts at you

[maiden meteor]

insert Jerma meatgrinder rant

[edgy river]

The muck is cheasable in bilewater. If u ever fall off you can wait for the flying bugs to respawn (or the walking ones) and it's pretty safe to get your silk to full

[sinful nimbus]

Me

[dry heart]

i just got my friend in hollow knight and he genuinely managed to end up in deepnest, then kingdom's edge, before even entering fungal wastes/city

[sinful nimbus]

You can get there via Memorium

[silk dirge]

yall are crazy

[dry heart]

like bro..

[thorny brook]

The worst Bilewater enemy is the one that blocks the mask shard

[sharp hawk]

Fair. I just used the anti-muck tool

[silk dirge]

whats the trigger for that quest

[sinful nimbus]

Iunno

[silk dirge]

i definitely did not get that quest before groal

[lavish tangle]

same

[silk dirge]

if that quest didnt exist no one is ever finding putrified ducts lmao

[rain spindle]

Am I the only one whonlikes father of the flame....

[maiden meteor]

Probably 100% Songclave/Bone Bottom quests

[lavish tangle]

I got to bile water, tried groal, died, used the bilewater path to get to putrified ducts

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway slander of Groal the Great's beautiful caverns will not be tolerated

[edgy river]

Falling in the maggots in sinners road is way worst. The enemies there are way more difficult and risky to grind silk in and most have projectiles, or can jump you

[rain spindle]

I thinkbthe boss fight is neat

[thorny brook]

Not as a boss, but I enjoyed it.

[dry heart]

bro that was such a boring fight i swear

[silk dirge]

groals an interesting fight its just the arena before him is stupid

[hybrid portal]

father of the flame love 🩹 ❤️‍🩹

[rain spindle]

Thr aesthetics are cool

[silk dirge]

the frog ninja dudes are so fucking annoying

[rain spindle]

The music is cool (unfortunately i cant find it)

[sinful nimbus]

Slandering his highly intelligent tribe of warriors is worse

[lavish tangle]

groal in godhome would be cool, groal where he is rn sucks

[silk dirge]

LET ME FUCKING HIT YOU STOP JUMPING IN THE WATER

[dry heart]

is there a way to fight karmelita again after i get her heart btw..?

[lavish tangle]

no :(

[hybrid portal]

savescumming

[rain spindle]

No she dies

[dry heart]

oh... yea we need godhome asap 💔

[lavish tangle]

I loved her pre arena opera singing

[quick cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/hornet-dunk-gif-5163567144698048097

[thorny brook]

My strat was pogo the rotund ones, and wait for the long ones to drop to hit them

[maiden meteor]

btw what’s the deal with Blighttown 2.0 having such majestic theme

[dry heart]

like what if theres just a dead godseeker in pharlmoon and hornet enters it palying that melody

[silk dirge]

ok then stillkin fucking suck and deserved everything that happened to them

hope that helps 👍

[thorny brook]

memorium god home would go hard

[rain spindle]

Its mesnt to convey the lore

[lavish tangle]

my strat was charge up the charge attack

[dry heart]

yes 🔥 bro imagine we can face off the shade lord there bro

[rain spindle]

Bilewater is that way because citadel hates those bugs

[silk dirge]

tho theyre only pissed like that bc that shit happened to them

but they probably were assholes before as well

[sinful nimbus]

It perfectly encapsulates the lost beauty of Groal's magnificent caverns, with a hint of the immeasurable and terrific bitterness he feels.

[lavish tangle]

Bilewater is the citadel's sewers

[maiden meteor]

We have too much waste. Send that shit to Bilewater.

[rain spindle]

I mean now their home smells like poop

[silk dirge]

then why isnt groal flukemarm

[rain spindle]

Putrified ducts be like

[dry heart]

bro hear me out, godseekers bring knight to attunement (since we went from dream no more knight hasnt been to godhome,) but then knight GENUINELY becomes shade lord in pharloom?!2

[thorny brook]

Dlc adds the ability to play post true ending which activates a quest to fill memorium with all the bosses, or smth

[maiden meteor]

Flukemarms’ magnificence cannot be matched

[rain spindle]

I like to imagine tue shade lord behaving like a pet around hornet

Like "yeah she family"

[silk dirge]

remember flukemarm is canonically alluring

[silk dirge]

shade lord dog

[lavish tangle]

they spar for funnies

[silk dirge]

which pet are you picking

[maiden meteor]

triple void death barrage

[silk dirge]

eyra or shade lord dog

[thorny brook]

Shade lord :3

[silk dirge]

ok wait honestly bell beast is one of those yanny or laurel type things

i hear her yell aida

[lavish tangle]

lord of shades will of the void as my cute little baby pet

[silk dirge]

but apparently some people hear eyra

[lavish tangle]

I hear nothing at all

[rain spindle]

My little brother cant be that cute

[lavish tangle]

oh that

[dry heart]

why did we continue from dream no moreeee 🙁 i mean we all considered it the main ending but still i feel like it would be better to continue after godhome

HOWEVER we do see a glimpse of knight looking like shade lord in hornet's eyes, maybe its a cliffhanger for something extra? 👀

[silk dirge]

its intentionally left ambiguous similar to the ending of inception

[lavish tangle]

I hear "here-ah"

[dry heart]

that cant be it for silksong it was too short 😭

[silk dirge]

its open to interepretation

[rain spindle]

There will be dlc

[thorny brook]

I like the dream no more interp, it could be Embrace tho

[lavish tangle]

we are getting DLCs like hollow knight dw

[rain spindle]

Likely about the steel masters

[glossy badger]

Yes this is a much better idea

[dry heart]

i honestly dont think so, the chances there wont be dlcs are very low imo

[silk dirge]

tho i think nolan confirmed the ending of inception actually

and i mean tbf it actually wasnt that ambiguous bc you can see the top start to fall over

meaning it isnt a dream

[hybrid portal]

it could still be the godhome ending - no hollow knight shade, focus slashes instead of form

[rain spindle]

Im curious

Is phantom really dead tho

[thorny brook]

Did you or did you not kill her

[rain spindle]

Is lace just fine with it

[lavish tangle]

I think it is godhome, the knight is still a thing inside the formless void

[silk dirge]

ok you know whats really funny

[lavish tangle]

lace doesn't care

(idk I lied)

[rain spindle]

Thats her sister😭

[silk dirge]

the first time i ever encountered the word phantom was when i was like 8 playing animal jam 😭

if any of you ever played that

so whenever i hear phantom i always think of those now

[dry heart]

i mean we saw shadelord escape godseeker and go out into hallownest (or get teleported away with delicate flower) so how would it make sense that the knight is in his old form chilling in the void

[silk dirge]

THERES LORE WTF

[lavish tangle]

I think the delicate flower just disintegrates void

[silk dirge]

😭 😭 😭

[hybrid portal]

how can you keep focus when you're dead?

[silk dirge]

why does animal jam have lore

[thorny brook]

Maybe the Knight got all bosses radiant but still did dream no more

[silk dirge]

this is crazy

[hybrid portal]

godseekers lose focus - potentially revert to form

[dry heart]

LOOOOL

[lavish tangle]

the knight/shade lord just likes his regular little baby body more

[lime nova]

I watched pointcrow play silksong, and seeing him describe his interpretation of the story made me appreciate it a lot more

[lavish tangle]

so when he was done being a big meanie and escaping he decided that is how he will look

[dry heart]

if youre talking about the knight, we just saw that he isnt really dead, just went back into the void

[silk dirge]

whos winning this fight

[lavish tangle]

phantom

[dry heart]

it also seems the knight is the same being even though it lost its shell, because how else would it know who hornet is?

correct me if im wrong tho

[hybrid portal]

na im talking abt the godseekers, they focused on the knight to turn him into the shade lord

[lavish tangle]

I mean the void is liquid and the shade lord controls it and the knight is the shade lord so the knight can just make himself look like the knight

[silk dirge]

wait are animal jam phantoms canonically weavers look at them /j

[dry heart]

but is there really only one godseeker?

also good point, however if anything this just means godseeker is still alive and theres a chance we can enter godhome from memoriuming an old godseeker corpse ((im just making assumptions here))

[lavish tangle]

well only one made it to hallownest, we don't know where the others are

[lime nova]

The main premise of the game is Hornet fulfilling the wishes of the three queens of Hallownest.

Herrah's wish for Hornet to choose her fate, Vespa's wish for her to have the strength to protect herself, and the White Lady's wish for her to build the world she wants to live in.

Pharloom's story is essentially Hornet learning from Hollow Knight 1, and applying those lessons to save Pharloom, creating a kingdom she loves, saving its people, and building something new

[lavish tangle]

and godhome was a dream not a memory so we will need a different way in, like using hornet's own memories to rmember her time there

[dry heart]

there are higher beings in pharloom so maybe there is a godseeker there too

[hybrid portal]

im psure theres only one godseeker in the real plane, the rest are inside of the last one

[rain spindle]

Its implied she doesnt stay in pharloom and goes to the surface tho

[dry heart]

yes but we already said we would enter from memorium on a dead one

[lime nova]

I think there's only really Silk, though arguably the higher being that creates lifeblood has a presence in Pharloom as well

[silk dirge]

this is why i loved red memory so much this resonates a lot with me

[dry heart]

tbf this is a valid point but couldn't we use the godseeker's memory of godhome?

[silk dirge]

and its likely why red memory left me shaking for the entire day

[lime nova]

Well sure, but she still focused on and achieved creating a better world

[lavish tangle]

can you remember your own dreams? maybe, maybe not

[silk dirge]

especially the build a world you want to live in

[rain spindle]

Yeah makes sense

[silk dirge]

that was peak dialog i dont care what anyone says

[rain spindle]

Meanwhile the knight is chilling

[lavish tangle]

if we enter through a dream we are under the influence (even if very slightly) of the radiance

[dry heart]

as was said by the godseekers themselves, their whole point is to attune with gods (this was said when talking about how white lady somehow manages to hide, and how their only purpose is to seek out)

makes sense they seek out higher beings anywhere

[lime nova]

Knowing that The Knight is still around, living in the void, it makes me happy

[dry heart]

yeah fr honestly, i mean is the void kinda just standing there for eternity now even though siblings/knight are still alive 😭

[rain spindle]

And they love their sister

Good ending folks

They have a home and a family

[dry heart]

ik the knight's mission is over but uhm... trapped for eternity is crazy work

[rain spindle]

They are not trapped

[lavish tangle]

the knight isn't trapped??

[silk dirge]

one must imagine knight happy

[rain spindle]

They can get out

[dry heart]

how can they get out without a shell

[rain spindle]

They just dont want to

Lil guy is a higher being now

[dry heart]

ohonest question i didnt know this

[lavish tangle]

there is void apparently litterally everywhere, if anything they have more freedom of travel than litterally any other bug

[lime nova]

The Knight isn't "trapped" in the void, they are the void

[dry heart]

so knight cna just manifest as void and leave abyss?

[rain spindle]

The same way their shade is out too?

[silk dirge]

massive moss charger is a god is perfect i dont see the problem

[lavish tangle]

they all were gods, god = strong mfer. higher being = what we generally call a god

[dry heart]

but shades were only out due to being restless, and only in abyss. We see them going down once knight finishes radiance

[subtle stump]

I'm the glizzy gobbler

[silk dirge]

ok

[subtle stump]

I gobble glizzys

[rain spindle]

Moreso they control it. They cant be all void otherwise silksong act 3 makes no sense

[dry heart]

ok

[silk dirge]

this is crazy silksong lore

[lime nova]

Lace does refer to Silk as a "god" in the game though. They still recognize higher beings as gods

[rain spindle]

Brcause that was their mission. The knight can get out if they wanna

[dry heart]

nah with the amount of speculation i am making here, if some real guy whos crazy about the lore was here we would be eating spoonfuls of shit

[silk dirge]

i think outside of godmaster they get used interchangeably

[lime nova]

The Knight seems perfectly happy living in the void

[subtle stump]

Guys how do you get past the path of pain

[lavish tangle]

wait is that why the knight came to pharloom? they sensed the void acting weird not under their control so they went there to like discipline it like a child, and found hornet already doing that

[subtle stump]

I need some tips

[dry heart]

you exit the way you came out 😭

[silk dirge]

im talking about the guy sayng he gobbles glizzy

[dry heart]

oh lol

yes its canon...

[lavish tangle]

thats what I think, this way we can have godhome

[lime nova]

Also it's worth noting that the godseekers are only really looking for higher beings. They don't particularly show interest in the weaker bosses, they simply exist to attune to stronger and stronger forces

[rain spindle]

I think they realized hornet was in danger

[silk dirge]

yeah this is a good point

[lavish tangle]

it takes a while to go from hallownest to pharloom, so the knight couldn't have started going in that direction as hornet got into the void

[silk dirge]

except this sucks bc it means godseekers dont care about my boy mossy

mossy must be cared about

mossy is the true god of gods step aside lord of shades

[rain spindle]

I think they went when they realized the everbloom got destroyed. Void must have some fast travel

[subtle stump]

This all could have been avoided if the pale king didn't love his son

[lavish tangle]

god tuner tunes to gods, they were all there, therefore they were all gods

[dry heart]

i am not in danger skyler i am the danger

[lavish tangle]

there are different tiers of godhood

[lavish tangle]

fair enough

[lavish tangle]

higher being
god
everyday bug

[lime nova]

Is Hornet herself considered a Higher Being? I think the half consciousness she has in Godhome implies she's more of a demigod

[silk dirge]

shes like a demigod if weavers arent higher beings

[rain spindle]

Shes half a higher being.

[lavish tangle]

well if offered ok icecream and the best you ever seen would you go to the regular?

[silk dirge]

weavers are like high beings i think but not higher beings

[dry heart]

from what someone told me, the knight has united the void, but doesnt control all of it due to it being all over the world (apparently, from what we assume.) The knight just controls a very large portion of it, but yes it probably came to pharloom acting as some sort of void's manager once it sensed void lashing out from silk

[rain spindle]

Strictly? No she isnt

[lime nova]

Yeah, I think weavers are simply very powerful bugs granted sentience and power by Silk

The first sinner cutscene implies this

[rain spindle]

The only higher beings are the Nightmare Heart, Unn, Radiance, Silk, Pale King, White Lady and the Knight

[silk dirge]

and gms

[hybrid portal]

i dont think its very powerful bugs

[silk dirge]

oh wait you said that

[hybrid portal]

just bugs in general

[rain spindle]

silk<

[dry heart]

its kinda crazy that white lady is probably still alive when pharloom takes place

[silk dirge]

im blind

i think all vessels are higher beings

[lime nova]

I meant that they're made very powerful by Silk, but yes, you're correct

[silk dirge]

but the knight is the main one to focus on

[lavish tangle]

Well the ones that didn’t die at least

[kind pagoda]

Anywhere I can read the lore so far?

[rain spindle]

No they arent. Knight only becomes one when they turn into shade lord

[silk dirge]

i mean higher beings in hk dont seem to be completely immortal

[lime nova]

I disagree. I think The Knight becomes a higher being once it gets Voidheart

[silk dirge]

so theyre different from like greek gods

[rain spindle]

Otherwise the godseekers would worship it

[dry heart]

actually no, knight becomes a higher being once voidheart is acquired

lets just say, once it becomes shade lord, due to attunement, its just an EXTREMELY strong higher being

[rain spindle]

Makes sense

[lavish tangle]

What I meant is if you are dead you are no longer higher because you ain’t even a being

[silk dirge]

isnt the knight a higher being bc its born to two of them

it doesnt make sense to say its not

[rain spindle]

It's implied it's not that simple

[dry heart]

not instantly. I mean vessels are weak. Hornet was hunting and taking them out easily. You can't call that a higher being.

[lime nova]

The only higher beings we know of

But I'd also add the lifeblood creature. Silksong pretty clearly shows in act 3 the parallels between lifeblood and the infection

[silk dirge]

we had this discussion earlier the wiki said it was "debated" but like when in any mythology is the child of 2 gods not a higher being

[lavish tangle]

1 higher being parent doesn’t so hornet isn’t
2 does so THK is

[rain spindle]

Also gods of thunder and rain but we know nothing about them

I dont think vessels are all higher beings

If they were hornet would find them so weak

[lime nova]

Pretty often actually. Monsters in Greek mythology are born from gods and titans, and lesser deities like ocean spirits and forest spirits are descended from gods as well

[narrow rapids]

did pinstress defeat the fourth chorus? theres the same pin lodged in its neck, and her sister lives near it so itd make sense

[quick cairn]

Hornet isn't a vessel!

[rain spindle]

Higher being is not hereditary. It's more a concentration of power and what n9g

[dry heart]

as i just said, not all vessels are, but THK which got picked is one (after becoming large maybe??)

you can't call all vessels higher beings because hornet is actively hunting them and killing them in hallownest. higher beings cant be that weak

[lavish tangle]

3 parents is unstable so maybe not all of them are

[rain spindle]

I know

[silk dirge]

damn i need to reread percy jackson 😭

im washed wtf

[lavish tangle]

That’s with 1 God 1 non-god

[silk dirge]

ap lit ruined books for me

[lime nova]

But Herrah is not a higher being, nor is she Silk's "daughter". Weavers are common bugs given divine power by Silk. They're moreso servants of the gods

[rain spindle]

I wouldn't even say lace is a higher being

[lime nova]

Agreed

[rain spindle]

So just because your parents are higher beings doesnt mean you sre too

It's more complex than thay

[lavish tangle]

Hornet is not higher, THK is, average vessel isn’t,lace isn’t (1 parent)

[rain spindle]

Pure Vessel may be but I don't think so

Nothing implies that

[lime nova]

To be clear, Lace isn't really Silk's daughter in the traditional sense. Like, she didn't come out of her. She was woven from Silk, she's just a lifeform

[lavish tangle]

Soul manipulation

[edgy barn]

Do we actually know for sure if the gods of rain and thunders are higher beings? The godseeker has a very broad definition of what a god is.

[rain spindle]

Godseerkers worshipped them so its likely

[lime nova]

Yeah

[rain spindle]

They only worshio higher beings

[soft edge]

So is radiance a pale being given expanded context? Pale beings seem to be related to soul right?

[lime nova]

Absolutely they are, yes

[rain spindle]

Not but shes equal to them

[soft edge]

Although she's physically pale, can manipulate soul through her nails like pure vessel, and pale ore is at her statue

But that's just a theory ....

[rain spindle]

Both pale being and radiance work through light

Which is why void is their enemy

[silk dirge]

radiance isnt pale shes like yellow

[rain spindle]

Radiance is made of essencr tho

[rain spindle]

So shes different

[silk dirge]

gms is pale

[soft edge]

Isn't it stated silk is pale at one point?

[silk dirge]

multiple times

[rain spindle]

It is stated multiple times

[hybrid portal]

pale nails

[silk dirge]

"these are the only fates my kind allows"

[soft edge]

Pretty sure hornet says it

[misty umbra]

Didn't they call gms pale something something? Does that not imply that she is?

[soft edge]

Just not super clear what the distinction is, seems pale beings are related to soul and want to have dominion over others

[modern bay]

Thought it was specifically Wyrm heritage

[silk dirge]

nah

white lady wasnt born from a wyrm

the only wyrm we have ever seen is pale king

[soft edge]

I think it seems to be literally "pale" beings

[modern bay]

Isn't hornet a wyrm?

[silk dirge]

part

[modern bay]

Yea

[lime nova]

Half Wyrm

Pale Beings:

• The Pale King
• The White Lady
• Grand Mother Silk

Other Higher Beings:

• The Radiance
• Nightmare Heart
• Unn
• The Knight/Lord of Shades

Children of Higher Beings:

• Hornet
• The Vessels

Created by Higher Beings but not "children"

• Lace
• Phantom
• Weavers
• Kingsmolds/Wingmolds/Collector
• Moth tribe
• Mosskin

Possible Higher Beings:

• Lifeblood Creature
• Gods of Thunder and Rain

[modern bay]

So yes she has wyrm blood

[lavish tangle]

Storm and rain are confirmed higher I thought

[lime nova]

Or is it thunder and rain?

[rain spindle]

Thunder and rain

[lime nova]

Gotcha

[rain spindle]

Isnt the knight a pale being tho

[lavish tangle]

I think so but unconfirmed

[silk dirge]

would grimm fall under created by higher beings

[modern bay]

I think he would be right?

[rain spindle]

Hes like
33% wyrm
33% whatever the white lady is
33% void

[lavish tangle]

Grimm yes, NKG no

[silk dirge]

why not nkg

[lime nova]

I don't believe so. They're pale, but because their higher beingness comes from the void and not the paleness of themselves I'd say no?

[rain spindle]

NKG is the avatar of the nightmare heart

[lavish tangle]

More like 50% pale 50% tree or wtvr 100% void

[modern bay]

Why not both?

[silk dirge]

so like a representation of it?

[lime nova]

NKG is an avatar of the Heart

Oh crap that was already said

[silk dirge]

what does avatar mean in this context

[lime nova]

An avatar is a physical, mortal manifestation of a god

[rain spindle]

"Physical" manifestation of it

[silk dirge]

i see

[lavish tangle]

Hi you do what I say but you are not me

[lean temple]

He is its vessel and direct spawn, and they seem to be inextricably connected. The Nightmare's Heart he calls the "Heart of Grimm"

[lime nova]

You can kill an avatar without killing the god itself

[lavish tangle]

You didn’t even stop the ritual new Grimm is a charm

[silk dirge]

nooo i dont want to be a marketable charm

[lime nova]

Yeah, Grimmchild is still farting around in Hallownest I think. I think the charm more realistically makes Grimmchild follow the Knight, but they still exist outside of them

[naive lake]

-# is the Father of Flames a false prophet/god?

[lean temple]

Probably so

[lime nova]

More like an effigy

[silk dirge]

the false liskong al gaib

[lavish tangle]

Why is your message a different Color?

[silk dirge]

is hornet the liskong al gaib

[craggy smelt]

I'd aruge that in light of what we learn about pale beings in Silksong (it's a category, not just a title for a few) that Radiance should qualify as a pale being.
Expectionally powerful, literally pale in color, shares visible attributes with Pale King and Grand Mother Silk (her 'crown', her lower limbs, her 'halo' of power, etc.) Also Pale King calls her 'blazing kin', and pale beings are said to all be part of a 'higher caste'.

[lime nova]

What is the liksong al gaib

[silk dirge]

have you not watched dune 😭

or read

[lavish tangle]

Fair actually

[lime nova]

Radiance is not pale. Nowhere is this even remotely said

[silk dirge]

radiance seems more yellow to me than pale

[lime nova]

Pale doesn't mean "light in tone and bright" it's a very specific thing

[lavish tangle]

Pale isn’t Color based, look at GMS body

[blissful harbor]

pale seems to mean soul related to me more than anything

[frozen shell]

Speaking of, is the bird dude on mount fay a pale being?

[lime nova]

The Radiance is just a very powerful higher being

[stuck stone]

Is the character a bug?

[silk dirge]

no thats just a birb not a higher being

[tawdry flare]

No that’s a big cat

[frozen shell]

The little sign mentions a pale one will judge those at the peak

[naive lake]

press -# and type somethijg

[frozen shell]

Or smth like that

[silk dirge]

the real question do we think mr mushroom is a higher being

[lime nova]

Btw, I really wish Silksong featured more than one new higher being. I loved how many Hallownest had

[lavish tangle]

Powerful with the will conquer crowned and has a weird single part body

[blissful harbor]

yes

[silk dirge]

id argue mr mushroom is a higher being

[frozen shell]

Definitely or even smth higher

[lime nova]

Nah

[naive lake]

"-# it functions as a quiet whisper for people who want to ask something but not barge into a conversation"

[lavish tangle]

Tbf on release hk had like 3 and silksong has 2

[tawdry flare]

Mister Mushroom is a meta character and should not be considered in discussions like these

[modern bay]

When extra content is introduced I'm very sure they'll add more

[silk dirge]

false

[frozen shell]

Mister Mushroom confirms a third game

[lavish tangle]

I forgot tree mother

[silk dirge]

mr mushroom is the highest being and must always be discussed

[frozen shell]

Which is cool

[blissful harbor]

he still exists in universe, and he has a purpose

[sonic dragon]

I hope for mossbag video soon about what the fuck did I just see in the true ending

[hybrid portal]

yeah it confirms hornet is void

[humble iron]

He confirms another game with mr. Mushroom in it. I'd like to think it means a third HK game but it could just be another IP

[lavish tangle]

No it doesn’t?

[craggy smelt]

do we need an NPC to specifically say 'Radiance is a pale being' to come to that conclusion?
who would even tell us that? The only NPC who even seems to know Radiance exists is the Seer, and she only name drops her once before 'dying'.
'pale being' only ever referred to White Lady and Pale King in the first game, and seemed to just be a title - they were the only pale beings general known about
also when TC was originally asked about higher beings, they include Radiance along with 'Wyrm' and 'Root.'
in light of the new lore about pale beings, them being an entire caste, I'd say Radiance qualifies

[modern bay]

He's working on it, currently trying to figure stuff out w/ Eva and the Mask Maker

[hybrid portal]

buddy didnt u see the part where hornet becomes the 2nd shade lord

[sonic dragon]

Yeah but the knight appearing as a shade lord means some of the hollow knight endings ain't canon

[lime nova]

Yeah I hope so, but even in base game HK had fuckin' five

[frozen shell]

Eva is weird af

[sonic dragon]

Oh EVA yeah

[lavish tangle]

I thoght the knight saved her

[rain spindle]

You saw the knight having feelings

[frozen shell]

Shes an attempt to recreate gms by the Weavers right

[humble iron]

She doesn't seem like she ticks the pale being boxes though

[lime nova]

I think the ending is meant to imply Dream No More is canon

[hybrid portal]

😭

[lavish tangle]

Eva is AI as far as I am concerned

[lime nova]

Eva is not an AI

[naive lake]

eva is it's own thing

[sonic dragon]

Right but didn't team cherry said that all endings are canon before silksong released

[lavish tangle]

I know

[tawdry flare]

It’s meant to imply BOTH ETV AND DNM!! I’m going to EXPLODE YOU ALL!!!

[rain spindle]

Eva is a failed higher being created by the weavers to counter silk

[lavish tangle]

But I will treat her as such

[silk dirge]

pale beings seem to exist in the real world and have some relation to soul

radiance is neither

[hybrid portal]

they said that whilst silksong was still a dlc

[rain spindle]

The weavers thought silk abandoned them and tried to rebel

[sonic dragon]

Yeah

[lavish tangle]

Pale king turned himself into a dream

[sonic dragon]

But I guess now the 2 abyss endings might be real

[lime nova]

Eva was an attempt at creating life by the Weavers, (essentially a weaver replice of Lace/Phantom) but wasn't stable and couldn't be sustained without a life support system basically

[tawdry flare]

Hollow Knight 3 is obviously taking place after THK/Sealed Siblings

[modern bay]

It's cool that Silksong focused more on a Theocratic Capitalist society stance with several area expanding enemies who felt much different than in HK

[keen prism]

that did not happen bro

[hybrid portal]

guy did not reach act 4

[lime nova]

Yeah, Pharloom is definitely meant to be a critique of theocracy and fascism

[frozen shell]

Everything i see about Pharloom proves PK was like the only good ruler ever

[humble iron]

bro's falling for the weakest ragebait in existence

[silk dirge]

yeah

[lavish tangle]

Ok now I know you are lying thank god I didn’t beat act 3 yet

[plucky ivy]

Do we have an in game reason to why there is so many bells and who made them? I am not sure if I missed that

[rain spindle]

Part of me wants the dlc to be 3 hours of hornet and the knight bonding as siblings

I know it's impossible tho...

[humble iron]

Pharloom is literally medieval Europe in a fantasy setting lol

[frozen shell]

So the pilgrims and stuff showed up after the weavers trapped gms right? Basically made their own religion off what they saw?

[silk dirge]

i wouldnt call pharloom capitalist tho its more a fascist economy where the government controls everything and enforces classes

[dapper willow]

If there is another hollow knight game I would want to see magic explored more
We just rarely see any magical enemies in silksong anymore

[craggy smelt]

she ticks so many though:
exceptionally powerful
rules over bugs
fights with other pale beings for dominance (Mask Maker mentions this happens a lot)
'blazing kin' to other pale beings, said to be part of a caste
looks like pale king (crown)
looks like grand mother silk (weird legs, halo of power (light/silk/etc))
literally pale

[keen prism]

how am I falling for it if I am not mad?

[naive lake]

i want to know who where the 27 husbands hornet had that all died to longevity

[lime nova]

I think pre release they said something about bells helping bugs resist the haunting??

[silk dirge]

who said husbands

[peak sedge]

pharloom is like, a song-based religious society so bells come with that territory

[rain spindle]

Hornet bi queen

[plucky ivy]

but is there anything in game to justify that?

[silk dirge]

"exceptionally powerful" thats every higher being tho

[lavish tangle]

Wives, duh

[jovial ridge]

True

[modern bay]

I think capitalism and fascism can co-exist, not necessarily mutually exclusive

[naive lake]

Husbands or wives

[humble iron]

the powerful and ruling aspect are just basic higher beings stuff. As for her pale appearance, yeah, but her essence and the manifestation of her power is purely orange

[lavish tangle]

Look at Italy (I agree)

[rain spindle]

Husband and wives

Dont tag me

[silk dirge]

idk im not an expert on this stuff lol

[naive lake]

If i were to marry rn i would go in a wedding dress instead of a smoking

[lime nova]

Watch the "ambitious" Silksong dlc be a full sequel with a 7 year dev cycle again

[spare monolith]

rest ||in peace|| my friendly|| little pilgrim ||

[umbral moth]

kind of?? in the pilgrim's rest, the big pilgrim outside only turns into the husk enemy after sherma disappears and isn't singing to them anymore

[modern bay]

I'm going into Poli Sci so it's very very interesting to me

[peak sedge]

the games are fairly explicit on which higher beings are pale, if the radiance were it would just say it

[frozen shell]

I find Lace/Hornet shipping funny because people think its bad cuz lace is a child. Not only is that wrong, but theres a separate issue with it LMAO

[echo wasp]

friend is still down there in ||act3||

[silk dirge]

i can comment on how pharloom did wild PID tuning on fourth chorus

[naive lake]

pale radiance

[lime nova]

Pale Beings also literally glow bright white lol

[rain spindle]

Lace behaves and looks like a child but honestly I dont care

[craggy smelt]

pale beings seem to be in category of their own though, and Radiance is very powerful, exceptional amongst the other higher beings encountered in the first game

[rustic holly]

oh hi there

[modern bay]

Being educated in politics is more important now than ever imo 💀 😭

[ember quest]

aren't they like kinda cousins

[rain spindle]

Let people ship

This fandom still ships knight and hornet

[plucky ivy]

this made me realize why hornet using her needolin stops enemies, thank you

[frozen shell]

Lace is Hornet’s aunt

[pure gyro]

Is there a reason why the cogwork dancers look like the green prince?

[dapper willow]

I'm a big advocate of hornet adopting lace as a daughter

[peak sedge]

oh thats scary

[lime nova]

Than ever? Maybe not, but definitely the most important it's been in like 100 years

[hybrid portal]

do his questline

[rain spindle]

They were based on his lover

[naive lake]

honestly i just though lace was childish because of something smthing grandma silk made her and..... Nevermind i forgot the rest

[rustic holly]

go left of the cogwork dancers arena, you can meet him there and he traumadumps on you

[lavish tangle]

Yes

[frozen shell]

That would be a messy family tree lol, i do like it tho

[ember quest]

yeah i know i said kinda cousins because even though lace is the aunt hornet seems to be older, so its weird

[silk dirge]

but she cant exist physically and doesnt have any relation to soul

[pure gyro]

Thank you!!!
Yo wait we got the same name

[umbral moth]

they were modeled after the two, with the soul of the green prince's husband being used to create them

[rustic holly]

i think it was left at least. very close to that area

[modern bay]

This is unrelated tangent tho point is that Pharloom is definitely money, authoritarianism, and theocracy are incredibly prevalent themes

[rain spindle]

They look exactly like each other

[silk dirge]

pale beings seem to be able to exist physically and manipulate soul in some way(either use it directly or turn it into silk)

[lime nova]

I don't think Silk actually has any biological children

[rain spindle]

Hornet mentions in the disry

[modern bay]

Excuse my hyperbole and call to action

[rain spindle]

She has me

[peak sedge]

he shows up in two different places in the choral chambers after you free him iirc

[dapper willow]

Realistically that is the only place Lace can go other than a grave

[frozen shell]

And when theres one left it tries to embrace the other, but it can’t, recreating the green prince’s tragedy 😭

[lime nova]

Fair enough, go off king

[silk dirge]

i think trying to guess what makes something a pale being when we have very little details is a whole debate that can happen

[rustic holly]

yeah everything she deems as one of her "daughters" is either an uplifted species or an artificial lifeform

[umbral moth]

unless you consider beings made of thread to be biological since she's literally silk, this is true yeah

[lime nova]

I wonder if she's infertile

[frozen shell]

I mean the title screen kinda confirms they leave together

[naive lake]

Ok hold on, are ale beings just physica gods, or almost gods? I'm losijg it a bit

[craggy smelt]

she creates an entire living race from her dreams - literally making Soul
I don't know why existing in the dream realm would be a disqualifer

[rain spindle]

They gods

[peak sedge]

Gives up soul to stop people from being genocided
Verdania is genocided anyway

long live pharloom

[naive lake]

okay

[rustic holly]

god bless the torment nexus

[dapper willow]

funniest shit i have ever seen

[silk dirge]

she cant manipulate soul her element is essence tho and then the dream stuff is just like we genuinely do not know but all pale beings exist in the real world or did exist in it at some point where the radiance only exists in the dreams

[naive lake]

we love pharloom in this househol, and having to have our tribes and kingdoms ripped apart and chased to extinction

[woven vine]

Hm, a 1/8 Weaver in her advanced age took down a dozen captors before being taken. I wonder how many Hornet killed.

[dapper willow]

Weavers: "Do not build the torment nexus"
Citadel: Builds the torment nexus as soon as phisically possible
Plot ensues

[frozen shell]

Gets your memory of Verdania invaded by a different god who steals your fucking heart

[lavish tangle]

Explain the radiance statute of she never existed

[ember quest]

also, this is a bit of a dumb question, but lore-wise, thorought the game, at what point does hornet stop recovering her old skills/strength and start getting ones she didn't have before? are they all new? surely hornet could dash and run by the time she (forcefully) left hallownest, right?

[lime nova]

Silk calls lace a "child woven pure", possibly referring to how the Weavers are made with Silk, but not fully, as they were already living, biological lifeforms first. She probably sees their mortal flesh as weakness, and the cause of disloyalty, and Lace/Phantom are meant to be an upgrade of sorts that are meant to be fully obedient and subservient

Silk's folly is believing any lifeform could be truly obedient and (yes I'm doing allegory here) Hollow. She wanted a Hollow Knight, but there's no such thing

[silk dirge]

she only existed in dreams she was never a physical entity

[umbral moth]

people created the statue from what they saw in their dreams

[peak sedge]

i didnt even need that shit its resting on my mantle

[hybrid portal]

u can get it as a memento?

[dapper willow]

I think its just how many died in the joruney in general

[rustic holly]

yeah, you need 3 hearts out of the 4 and can keep the fourth if you grab it

[raw pewter]

I think the fact which higher beings has a physical body is unrelated to whether or not one could be pale beings, I mean Unn is a higher being who dreamed of Greenpath, thus creating it and it's denizens and I think all of us would agree Unn isn't a Pale Being

[frozen shell]

I missed the pollen heart from that

[lime nova]

Even the architects and their constructs aren't fully subservient, having their own interpretations of orders and wills

[silk dirge]

what im saying tho is we dont know the requirements for a pale being and what is currently known as a pale being is explicitly confirmed

[silk dirge]

unn physically exists tho

[lime nova]

Shown when Hornet's automaton "tests" her master

[silk dirge]

she literally gives you a charm

[lime nova]

God, I need to make a video essay

[raw pewter]

Yes, but that doesn't make Unn a Pale Being, only a "higher" being

[lavish tangle]

If I had a nickel for every game that states in one way shape or form that life and free will are intertwined, I would have 3

[silk dirge]

yeah thats what im saying

[raw pewter]

Did you? Well I think I might have read something wrong then

[tawdry flare]

Hey now, we all know Soul can’t be created nor destroyed

[raw pewter]

My apologies

[peak sedge]

I think that pale beings are supposed to be like, the psuedo-opposite of void?

[silk dirge]

all pale beings exist in the real world, not all higher beings that exist in the real world are pale

[lime nova]

Both Hollow Knight and Silksong are about gods attempting to create life without will, and completely and utterly failing. All life has a will, and if tried to force into a box, can and will rebel

[umbral moth]

considering the everbloom, seems more like a direct opposition to void than just a pseudo opposition. but yeah

[lavish tangle]

The third is ultra kill

[dapper willow]

I think its somewhere after Thread storm or wall cling, or maybe even clawline
Also I liked Gossamere storm more than thread storm as a name

[lime nova]

God damn it Silksong has a really good story after all

[silk dirge]

the reason im so hesistant to call radiance a pale being is bc theres no evidence for it at all since we dont know the requirements when pale king, white lady and gms are all explicitly stated to be pale

[tawdry flare]

Same

[lavish tangle]

And the flower

[silk dirge]

i feel like some people just took away wack interpretations of the story 😭

[ember quest]

yeah agreed

[craggy smelt]

I don't know that its a requirement that every pale being have 'soul as their element'
we have Pale King and his creations of Soul Totems and the Kingsoul, White Lady is less defined as a Soul user but I could see it with the fertility angle and contribution to the Kingsoul, Silk has her soul-infused silk though that's getting to be a weirder aspect of it...
Radiance gives off Soul when struck and creates entire living races, if that still doesn't qualify as 'Soul being her element' then alright, maybe not every pale being has 'soul as their element'. But since Essence can become Soul, she would literally be an infinite souce of it, and that's at least as much as Pale King was ever shown to be.
I don't see her being more aligned with Essence than Soul as a disqualifier.

[peak sedge]

i do think its funny to see in afterthought how terminally fucked the pale kings plan was

[umbral moth]

grandma silk 🤝 pale king
deadbeat parents whose children should be taken away from them

[dapper willow]

silksong story apreciation be like

[lime nova]

Both Hollow Knight games aren't designed to give you the full picture on a first playthrough. You're meant to dig into them and find meaning aftetwards, which gives subsequent playthrough and retrospectives more meaning

[ember quest]

anyway yeah i think its probably after clawline

[silk dirge]

giving off soul when struck i feel is kinda a gameplay over lore type deal they definitely didnt want you fighting a fucking final boss without soul

[lavish tangle]

Does the pale flower turn void into soul? Because after you get it when void hits you you lose silk then regain it

[ember quest]

there definitely is an achievement for it though lol
wait sorry thought we were talking about ||GMS|| not radiance

[raw pewter]

Honestly I am still very confused about Silksong lore, like did Grand Mother Silk created all Weavers or only some of them, I didn't read much on the Hunter's Journal and would like to know

[silk dirge]

the radiance just seems a lot less pale to me i do think colors actually matter

[dapper willow]

Essence is said to be a between state between the real world and... soul
Seer you high or something?

[tawdry flare]

The Radiance could be a Pale Being I guess but I don’t think she’s ever once called “Pale” in like any way other than PK referring to her as “blazing kin”. She’s probably more in the vein of the Nightmare Heart

[peak sedge]

Silksong does have a clearer story, with hornet being pretty much in-the-know the whole time (as an aside, having hornet as a voiced protagonist really emphasises how much comedy HK has)

[craggy smelt]

probably. it works with other dream bosses too.
lore reason: the dream nail does give you soul when you use it!
"Something something the dream nail is passively giving you Soul when you hit a dream boss!"

[silk dirge]

the difference is pretty clear to me

radiance does not look anywhere near as "pale"

[dapper willow]

it just repells the void corruption form your meter

[silk dirge]

she has a lot more gray

[tawdry flare]

Yeah she’s yellow and grayish where all the Pale Beings are pure white

[frozen shell]

Pale seems to be the opposite of void, both being practically monochromatic

[ember quest]

also what even is gms? white lady is a plant, pale king is a wyrm, gms just looks like a mannequin

[raw pewter]

Also Radiance's light are primary yellow and orange rather than a full white

[limpid summit]

Blazing kin is also used in the context of him and Rad both giving bugs thought; him in the form of the beacon, her in the form of infection

[craggy smelt]

spider - you see 8 legs when she catches you in her silk beam attack

[lavish tangle]

But you actually lose the silk first instead of it not being affected

[frozen shell]

Spool spider thing

[peak sedge]

thank god we never got a pale being bossfight cause you know that screen would be unreadable

[ember quest]

yeah i suppose that makes sense

[raw pewter]

Just get constantly flash banged

[rustic holly]

yeah the actual status of the radiance is as an essence-based higher being, a status also held by the nightmare heart

[lavish tangle]

GMS

[ember quest]

isnt silksongs final boss literally a pale being or am i misreading wether she is one

[peak sedge]

fuck!

[silk dirge]

she is

[ember quest]

yeah i was gonna say

[rustic holly]

alongside these we have whatever nature being unn is, likely also a primal element of its own given very similar things can be seen in pharloom

[silk dirge]

but like very clearly this is yellow

[quiet cave]

It's funny that none of the higher beings are actually bugs

[dapper willow]

i don't think you lose silk after you get the flower but I never got a good look at it
Its hard to do while lace tryes to scever my ass

[tawdry flare]

If you set your brightness to 200% and fight Trobbio he can flashbang you

[ember quest]

well radiance is a moth

[lavish tangle]

Regular void enemies do too, you lose then regain

[thorny brook]

I think of spiders as bugs, at least the small ones

[raw pewter]

Wyrm is a worm
-# I'm kidding, obviously not

[tawdry flare]

You don’t lose then regain, it just cleans the void off the silk spool

[quiet cave]

I don't think spiders are bugs

[dapper willow]

the meter is glitched probaly
like how you can glitch out the meter in hk as well
but who knows

[lavish tangle]

Easier to tell when you have exactly enough for 1 heal, because you flash white after

[raw pewter]

Still unfortunate I didn't see any Scorpions in Silksong, really hoping there will be a tribe of scorpions like the ants

[quiet cave]

Worms are not bugs

[lavish tangle]

Scorpions are not bugs

[ember quest]

yeah i feel like unn and nyleth are somewhat parallel

[dapper willow]

the sand areas would really be good for them

[lavish tangle]

Spiders aren’t either though

[raw pewter]

Yes I know, they are Arachnids, just like spiders

[limpid summit]

Unn is in a class of her own as an entirely physical higher being who created things from her dream

[dapper willow]

there are worm and slug like people too in the hollow knight games
And maggots and plants and whatnot

[tawdry flare]

Nyleth is more in the vein of Isma it seems

[limpid summit]

PK, WL and GMS are analogous Rad and NMH are analogous

[craggy smelt]

Radiance's body is white, her wings are light grey - Radiance always has a halo of bright light behind her, it's why she seems in shadow
you can see shading on Silk as well, but their bodies are both white
they both got that weird spindle leg thing going on, spikey crowns, halo'd by their power (light/silk)
oh, black body/faces too

[limpid summit]

Nyleth is an Isma like bug yeah probably with a measure of plant control but not HB level

[silk dirge]

gms is clearly a lot more pale tho

[craggy smelt]

"GMS's limbs are gold, not pale, disqualified as pale being, nyeeegh!"

[dapper willow]

her body is black in the void
The white parts seem to be just silk clothing

[blissful harbor]

she’s like pale yellow to me ngl, the difference between the two is noticeable

[tawdry flare]

^

[silk dirge]

like nothing on the radiance looks pale white

[raw pewter]

Radiance is Off-White

[ember quest]

wait what? last time i checked (as in, literally last time i checked, not using it as an euphemism) isma was a knight and nyleth is described as being the primal source of all life in shellwood or something like that

[silk dirge]

its all more like muted grays

[lavish tangle]

GMS is literally black

[tawdry flare]

She seems to be more a guardian than the creator, I think? Probably a stronger one of Isma’s species since Isma shares the same mask design

[unreal estuary]

Is the nature of Pale Being's their colour though, or just their relation to the creation of the world? Because Pale Ore (and probably Pale Oil) is taken from the ground, and all pale beings we know of were responsible for creating certain bug species from the mindless ones that decorate the world

[craggy smelt]

[graceful flicker]

radiance looks pretty pale to me

[grand kayak]

Guys for the radiance it literally just the lighting that makes her off white. The radiance fight is literally backlit by a sunset off course its a slightly more orange white

[lavish tangle]

Pale king and tree lady are fully white not white clothing, GMS is black with white clothing

[silk dirge]

i mean looking at the wiki the difference between her and other pale beings is pretty obvious

[tawdry flare]

Why is her sun when you challenge her yellow and not pale white? Checkmate, liberals

[coral oracle]

hornet also remarks gms as a pale monarch and i feel like she would have a decent idea on what a pale being is like having been around the pale king and queen

[peak sedge]

whick one did PK create?

[ember quest]

close enought, yeah i guess

[dapper willow]

Guys the radiance is not a pale being
Idk why this is a debate

[ember quest]

seems a bit able to go both ways

[grand kayak]

Yeah every radiance sprite is backlit by the sun

[limpid summit]

Isma is the source of acid throughout lower Hallownest her and Nyleth seem on the same level perhaps Nyleth has better plant control

[unreal estuary]

All the bugs in Hallownest (I guess 'create' is the wrong word but at least give mind to)

[somber temple]

is there anything more to do with the flea festival other than getting the pale oil?

[silk dirge]

yeah all other pale beings are explicitly confirmed and we dont know the requirements for one so unless radiance is explicitly confirmed as one which is unlikely she is not one to me

[spark valve]

They’re both creators isma is a knight but that’s not related to her species and we see her taking root and starting to spawn a region of flora

[quiet cave]

You can get a memento after doing ||seth questline||

[craggy smelt]

if you find Seth kicking around, he'll show up there with new high scores to beat

[sacred heath]

alright here’s a question for you all
are the Mask Makers higher beings

[raw pewter]

They are trying to say that just because it didn't confirm nor deny that Radiance is/isn't Pale Beings there's a chance she could be one

[ember quest]

pale oil is mentioned to be the gland of some slug or something like that, i forget the exact wording

[unreal estuary]

Ah I must have missed that piece of dialogue

[silk dirge]

we dont actually know if pale ore and oil are related to pale beings

[ember quest]

probably because its not dialogue yeah dw

(materium)

[lavish tangle]

and the pale flower?

[limpid summit]

Pale Ore is Pale Oil we aren’t sure but like not too much of a stretch

[raw pewter]

I still want to know more about the Mask Maker(s) of both games and how they are connected

[silk dirge]

we also dont know a lot

[lavish tangle]

one is a rock the other is a gland, big stretch

[unreal estuary]

Oh, yeah I haven't gone through that yet, still waiting until I do everything

[craggy smelt]

TC state pale ore was at one point, dunno about oil
the Palestag was said to be 'pale touched', maybe the slugs that make the oil were also...?

[dapper willow]

Isn't it interesting how "common bugs" can have such amazing powers
Its really nice to know that y ou don't have to be born special in the HK universe to gain amazing power
Also its kinda crazy how much more powerful you can get compared to a normal guy if you are a special warrior type

[naive lake]

delicate flower

[tawdry flare]

all we know is that it’s basically antivoid

[naive lake]

Me when everbloom

[lime nova]

Do we get any lore on Phantom aside from her fight and journal entry?

[dry heart]

white lady is root

[vivid kernel]

Is hornet a Spider-Man variation

[silk dirge]

the mirror needolin

[ember quest]

the wording here is interesting, what even is a sylphean slug?

[craggy smelt]

there's a needolin memory area in the organ somewhere

[lavish tangle]

yes

[vivid kernel]

Silksong is connected the spider verse 😮

[craggy smelt]

some kind of slug

[silk dirge]

possibly related to eva?

[lavish tangle]

species name

[dapper willow]

I think we can all agree that yes
She is Peter Hornet Parker

[silk dirge]

when you bind eva the ability you get is called "sylphsong"

[tawdry flare]

Eva gives you Sylphsong so uhhh hmmmm

[ember quest]

well yeah im just saying sylph is an interesting descriptor

[lime nova]

Oh fascinating. I'll explore that now

[ember quest]

considering binding eva also has that word

[lavish tangle]

one that can see soul?

[craggy smelt]

'sylph' is a term that refers to like fairies, etc.

[lavish tangle]

or maybe generate it in some way

[rain spindle]

Phantom is a really underutilized char

[raw pewter]

Just look at Skarrsinger Karemlita, who Hornet herself said that she almost matched her skill, just imagine an Ant Queen being almost on par with a daughter of weaver and wyrm

[rain spindle]

We know nothing about him

[dapper willow]

Hornet is a fairy now ✨

[tawdry flare]

Too bad they’re dead 💔

[ember quest]

i think that's kind of the point of the character

to be imperfect and underutilized

[maiden meteor]

Phantom just aurafarms some and dies

[rain spindle]

All we know is that they think of lace as a sister

[sacred heath]

now THAT is interesting

[rain spindle]

But like.

[stuck stone]

Is the slik a bug

[dapper willow]

yeah insane
Must have had some hellish training to soar so high

[stuck stone]

Silk

[tawdry flare]

That’s the most a character can really aspire to

[peak sedge]

I do think pale ore + oil are related to Pale Beings in some way, Team Cherry is pretty specific with the "Pale" keyword for the most part

[rain spindle]

I was sure phantom was void

[dapper willow]

Every non main bosses dream

[rain spindle]

Completely sure

[peak sedge]

I just dont think itll be extrapolated on

[naive lake]

what the fuck is styx

[coral oracle]

if you play your needolin in a certain spot in the oragan area you get to see lace looking at phantom in a tank full of liquid

[maiden meteor]

fren :3

[raw pewter]

God I love Karmelita, her fight is so damn fun, shame she appears so little

[craggy smelt]

nope - black bodies on the Silkborn, for whatever reason

[ember quest]

insane theory that is probably wrong but i like saying stuff and seeing what sticks
sylphean slug = wyrm
i am very smart

[keen prism]

Most likely

[tawdry flare]

I think it’s described as faded silk

[sacred heath]

a fuckin weirdo is what he is

[rain spindle]

Simpsong

[maiden meteor]

don’t be mean to my boy Styx

[keen prism]

Is Styx the same species as Huntress?

[lavish tangle]

who is Styx

[ember quest]

its thirsty thirsty thursday

[craggy smelt]

phantom's grey body certainly is

[sacred heath]

he’s a FUCKING FREAK!!!
but you know what? good for him

[rain spindle]

Hornet' slave

[peak sedge]

sinners road farmer that gives you silkworms

[tawdry flare]

Yep, her kid is called Styx baby in the files or something like that

[lavish tangle]

ahh

[unreal estuary]

Probably, Styx feels like the Leg Eater to Huntress' Divine

[dapper willow]

wait
maybe they are like half wyrm
or quarter wyrm

[raw pewter]

At least Styx learned some boundaries, unlike certain bugs who try to touch or kiss Hornet....

[craggy smelt]

someone pointed out that Styx has a bunch of different heads up above his nest, possibly suggesting they're all different masks Styx wears
(they might just be heads)

[dapper willow]

Wyrms seem to be able to reproduce with anything and everyting

[craggy smelt]

classic god move

[lean temple]

Because they probably do it with magic

[naive lake]

styx seems the type of dude to collct heads

[tawdry flare]

Weavers can do it too

[naive lake]

Then again he says he is weak so

[lavish tangle]

or the fact they can rebirth on command

[ember quest]

unironically possible, not specifically wyrms but related to wyrms more than any other pale beings probably because like, that's the most likely thing ive seen and team cherry absolutely is very careful with the word pale

[craggy smelt]

"Wyrms do it with magic."

[lavish tangle]

the pale kings secret dialogue now makes sense

[dapper willow]

weavers struggle with reproduction too

[maiden meteor]

tbh it’s weird considering he’s same species as Huntress

[craggy smelt]

oh man... how did the Pale Cloverstag come about...?
'pale touched'

[maiden meteor]

maybe he’s just a freeloader

[unreal estuary]

Well the other thing is we only know of one Wyrm, so we have no idea if they're all Pale Beings or even all Higher Beings

[lavish tangle]

he was the weak member of the huntress family

[peak sedge]

fun fact you can super silk jump [forgot the real name] in act 3 when styx is hiding from the void sacks to see a room full of masks

[dapper willow]

Magical reproducitve aid
New cursed silksong theory

[lavish tangle]

like the guy you give food to

[ember quest]

i just asked ari he said they are

[raw pewter]

Which is probably why Herrah asked Pale King to conceive her a child, and him being a higher being is a plus

[maiden meteor]

“Miss Hornet look at me I am so weak and need your protection 🥺 🥺 🥺”

[lime nova]

Ooooo

[lavish tangle]

its called super jump which is hillarious

[rigid gull]

the lace 2 flowers
are they everbloom?
prolly not right or else red memory would be pointless

[lean temple]

Zeus shenanigans

[rain spindle]

Unrelated but im pretty sure Phantom was talking in that scene, not lace

[lean temple]

No. They're white roses

[rain spindle]

He calls lace sister

[unreal estuary]

I think those might come from Shellwood? Not really ever stated but I don't think they are

[ember quest]

i need someone to send a picture of this because im not starting a whole save for it

[dapper willow]

especially so because it is not a jump but hornet pulling herself up with silk
And that actually matters gameplay wise because there are spots where you can't do it

[lean temple]

I think it's almost certain they are all Higher Beings, all being pale is another discussion. The way PK is always specified to be specifically a Pale Wyrm hints that no all of them were pale.

[maiden meteor]

fabled blackwyrm

[lavish tangle]

that too

[dapper willow]

We are never going to figure out this Pale shite

[rigid gull]

how is the white butterfly guys that can break seals related to the everbloom
is i tlike
butterfly kill soul
everbloom kill void?

[lavish tangle]

pale = super strong

[lean temple]

We don't know if that even was a Wyrm, likely not imo.

[maiden meteor]

it’s really funny how game namedrops Blackwyrm and never elaborates

[lavish tangle]

3rd game will tell us

[sacred heath]

wyrm is wyrm

[dapper willow]

namedrops steel city

[silk dirge]

it could easily just be team cherry was like "oh shit this is a cool name lets include it"

[unreal estuary]

Especially since Pharloom calls PK the White Wyrm

[rain spindle]

What are the chances of hegemol being alive

[maiden meteor]

tbh it feels like Rad was stronger than PK

[lean temple]

We also have Voltwyrm which is absolutely not an actual Wyrm, not Wyrms can still have it in their name

[ember quest]

is it weird that i like hallownest over pharloom and feel more fond towards it or am i just calling the normal human of nostalgia weird

[silk dirge]

steel city i feel might be in a dlc tho if its from where all the steel dudes are from

[dapper willow]

Nope
He is too old by now

[rain spindle]

Like

Dryya and isma are dead

Zemer and Ogrim are alive

We dont know about hegemol

[silk dirge]

its actualy voltvyrm

[lavish tangle]

maybe not in a 1 on 1 battle with his original form (wyrm)

[unreal estuary]

VoltVyrm I think is technically it's name

[rain spindle]

What if hes around the world

[maiden meteor]

at least in her ability to override PK’s mind

[lean temple]

Wait really

[maiden meteor]

I mean like

[peak sedge]

probably dead? At least from False Champions dialogue

[silk dirge]

yes

[maiden meteor]

PK’s mind giving abilities

[unreal estuary]

Yep

[dapper willow]

Or maybe an industrial hellscape the underworks can only dream of being
IDK I would just love more machine places to expore

[rain spindle]

It only says he took the armor

[lean temple]

Shit yeah

[dapper willow]

OR MAYBE ITS NEW YORK CITY

[waxen forum]

Radiance vs Pale King is impossible to debate because one is a dream god and one is a physical god

[sacred heath]

hegemol is a secret third thing

[lavish tangle]

yeah but PKs ability is passive while the radiance's is active

[waxen forum]

They literally can’t fight in an even way

[lavish tangle]

shhhh

[lean temple]

God I just wanna meet the Masters

[silk dirge]

the cradle mentions a blackbarren place or smth like that i wonder if that is where the "battle of blackwyrm" took place

[maiden meteor]

Did Radiance ever had actual physical form

[silk dirge]

no

[unreal estuary]

Unclear

[waxen forum]

No

[lavish tangle]

unclear

[rain spindle]

The humble The Knight:

[ember quest]

where are steel city and blackwyrm ever mentioned did i miss those

[rigid gull]

somebody said that blackwyrm could have been a location and not a black Wyrm

[lime nova]

Where in the organ room do you play the needolin?

[lavish tangle]

the one with the mirror

[dapper willow]

maybe they could make it work but they don't want to
Like the pale king doesn't want to fight radiance in dreams because she is too strong there, and the radiance doesn't want to fight pale king in the real world

[rain spindle]

Just below phantoms arena

[silk dirge]

its near the elevator shortcut you can break

[lavish tangle]

other side of the boss room iirc

[unreal estuary]

If you go to the left in the first fork from the elevator

[sacred heath]

is it crazy to say I don’t want the steel city to be some super industrial area

[dapper willow]

steel city is mentioned on a cage in the cradle

[maiden meteor]

also how tf King stuff Radiance inside HK

[waxen forum]

Exactly. They both clearly have some power in both realms (the infection, the dream palace), but they’re much weaker in opposite domains

[silk dirge]

blackwyrm is mentioned in the hunters notes for white defender

[rain spindle]

Do we know why GMS was kidnapping weavers and bringing them tp pharloom?

[ember quest]

oh right okay i was thinking of silksong exclusively

[lean temple]

It could've been a location or a person or an organisation. There's no way to know. But judging how powerful Wyrms are made out to be it'd be impossible that nobody mentions that second Wyrm

[waxen forum]

She’s going for the 100%

[dapper willow]

it could be something more interesting
Like a prosperous city with rising silver towers.... NEW YORK CITY

[silk dirge]

we know pk isnt the only wyrm for sure

[rigid gull]

if pk was alive, could godseeker have attuned him and made absolute pale king

[dapper willow]

jokes aside steel city sounds dope

[maiden meteor]

Maybe Blackwyrm was just PK larping

[lean temple]

Theoretically yes

[peak sedge]

here I managed to runback

[lime nova]

Which elevator

[maiden meteor]

Oh. He’s def cheating on us

[lavish tangle]

oh wait the one on the left is straight up his

[dapper willow]

Pale king could fight Grandma though
Now that is an interesting debate
I'd imagine it would give him some catarsys to defeat a different "infection"

[maiden meteor]

Styx no longer my BFF 💔

[ember quest]

blackbarrens and blackwyrm do sound like either (probably) related places, or crazy theory, the same place (lifeblood/plasmium situation)

[sacred heath]

I hope it’s significantly more magic-focused
kinda like Soul Sanctum in a way

[ember quest]

oh yeah that's definitely freaky

[unreal estuary]

The one you break to unlock the shortcut

[ember quest]

do we think they're all masks for styx?

[lean temple]

He would absolutely body her

[silk dirge]

i mean the steel dudes dont look too mechanical

[silk dirge]

he would just throw sawblades

[dapper willow]

YES
We need more magic users in these games
They are dying out

[unreal estuary]

In the first room of the organ

[sacred heath]

true they just do that

[waxen forum]

His wyrm form would body silk due to sheer size, Pale King form we don’t know tho

[dapper willow]

I don't want GROAL to be the premier magician omg

[olive umbra]

do wyrms even have a peak form? considering how death for them is rebirth

[lavish tangle]

the pale wyrm is a wyrm (one of the highest tiers of god) that is ALSO pale (one of the highest tiers of higher beings) he is winning no questions

[lime nova]

Oh shit. Is this Phantom telling Lace she'll die one day? Did Phantom come first?

[unreal estuary]

I thought that was Lace talking to Phantom tbh

[silk dirge]

i mean we dont even know what abilities pale king and white lady have