sk-lore

[foggy fractal]

hey man wth !

[rugged storm]

instantly

[covert tusk]

For the sake of the hypothetical let’s pretend this is the equivalent of Final Destination melee

[edgy barn]

I think Gurr and Hunter would get along pretty well. (In the sense they would really respect each other, and likely not rest until they have ended the other)

[foggy fractal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz78Cj9jD08&ab_channel=BobFred 😭 nah man wtf

[rugged storm]

let's assume that the radiance got bored and is making them fight

[rugged storm]

this

[severe siren]

You can just hand over the spritesheet

[covert tusk]

dear god it’s already begun

[severe siren]

Thanks

[foggy fractal]

freaking Lost First Sinner 😭

[silk dirge]

WHAT

[covert tusk]

Grimm Trobbio ❤️

[severe siren]

Did they even playtest Lost Sinner

[silk dirge]

this is the same person who made anyrad btw

[severe siren]

That is NOT the twisted bud

[silk dirge]

its the same person who made anyrad lmao do you think they playtest stuff

[spark valve]

oh I thought you said a squirrm

[severe siren]

Its a joke

[foggy fractal]

nah this is better than the twisted bud

[rugged storm]

imagine if we got lost eva and she just made you forget some crest slots

[timber pond]

WAWAWWAWAWWAWAW

[severe siren]

The lost kin copypasta

Smh

Fake fan fr

[limber anvil]

Also random head...

[severe siren]

This is in the game
Or at least some npc similar to it

[rugged storm]

silksongs telling me there's a memory locket in there

[keen storm]

Anyone got any info on what pharlooms biggest mistake was?

[foggy fractal]

I saw a clip of someone encountering it in game
it seems to be very hidden tho as this clip is the only one I've seen

[meager drum]

dirtcarver face cut in half?

[rugged storm]

capitalism

[keen storm]

Literally just greed?

[meager drum]

turning silk into a genetically transmitted disease

[silk dirge]

pharloom isnt capitalist its more a fascist economy

[severe siren]

Ima need a location tbh imo ngl afaik fr tmk ffs pmo

[edgy stone]

In the game secret room above the bench next to the dead vault keeper

[silk dirge]

where the state has complete control of the economy and basically enforces different classes

[polar latch]

TINY STYX

[next sable]

iirc you actually can see her if you don't finish the quest before act 3

[severe siren]

Can someone resend the spritesheets link that shit is not working

[edgy stone]

Yeah I met her

[rugged storm]

also we have hornet

[foggy fractal]

oml sybau I don't know it either you skibidi

[meager drum]

citadel probably wasnt that bad before the silking silker

[edgy barn]

tbh I think this would be a fun fight if you toned down the speed a notch or two

[serene belfry]

elaborate like what was pharloom's folly?

[naive talon]

||just got to the cradle... their were others like hornet?||

[rugged storm]

but do we actually have any wasp/hornet enemies in the game

[spark valve]

@severe siren

[silk dirge]

WAAA

[severe siren]

Lmao thanks

[silk dirge]

i want to stab that thing so fast

[keen storm]

Yeah, im just wondering what was their downfall

[limber anvil]

Also cut silk skill called zap... No graphics

[foggy fractal]

https://mega.nz/folder/nu5GjLxD#JB92f7G2YKa1ms9i6erftw

[rugged storm]

it does get stabbed, along with hornet

[limber anvil]

Called mandrake internally

[meager drum]

does vespa count? shes a bee named after hornets which named hornet after her

[edgy stone]

Zap might be a progenitor of the electricity upgrade for the silk skills

[edgy barn]

It took me an embarrasingly long time to figure out which NPC I was supposed to give it too. Like, Greyroot had completely vanished from my memory by the time I found it.

[keen storm]

Is hornet even her name?

[serene belfry]

first of all they had a full on omelas situation in which their city was run by underpaid overworked workers deep beneath their city who were constantly suffering who kept working in the hope that they would one day be brought up to the citadel, eventually they might've stopped working but thats not their main folly

[rugged storm]

no, like a species of hornet/wasp

I guess it would be too confusing

[meager drum]

the wood wasps in shellwood

[edgy stone]

I feel like this is thr wrong use of omelas

[serene belfry]

second it seems to be the mistake of following/deifying GMS

[edgy stone]

Hollow knight is an omelas

[severe siren]

The origin of all greyroot should look like a xenomorph imo tbh ngl

[tawdry flare]

chat if i download lost sinner and change this constant to 1000 what do we think would happen

[rugged storm]

oh yeah

[foggy fractal]

only one way to find out

[meager drum]

you killed them all didnt you

[rugged storm]

silk flying out

[rugged storm]

is

[limber anvil]

I assume so as well

[rugged storm]

is that bad

[limber anvil]

But its grouped up with silk skills so I thought I would mention it

[serene belfry]

actually your right by the citadel also kinda depended on the suffering and work of the underworks similar to the suffering of a child but hk is a way better comparison cause its actually the suffering of a child LMAO good point

[rugged storm]

the hunter journal said smth about the ecosystem being damaged

[meager drum]

I don’t think theres any lore but like no more pollips you killed the pollinators

[rugged storm]

womp womp

[serene belfry]

by this i mean the game seems to try hammer home the point in a bit that GMS is innately kinda beastly making her in some ways no different than the instinctual bugs at the bottom of the ladder similar to great ones in bloodborne

[tawdry flare]

hmm i need to read more silksong mods code so i can figure out how to make every enemy savage beastfly

[rugged storm]

verdania 2.0

[edgy stone]

Pharloom is more dystopian than anything else

[foggy fractal]

no pls

[meager drum]

[meager drum]

even before Silk silked all the bugs?

[vague whale]

The Citadel should've put you in charge of killing Hornet bro

[rugged storm]

make a primal savage beastfly that's the same sprite but the hitboxes for damage are 30% larger

[limpid summit]

Yeah I think the point of everything we get about GSM is that she was a Radiance trying to be a Pale King

[serene belfry]

and thirdly speaking of bloodborne the overuse of a special substance for them to gain youth and strength without knowing the consequences (silk linked all their mines to GMS so when she got pissy she affected everyone in Pharloom)

[edgy stone]

It seems like the citadels pilgrimage was not a lie as they would let people in, but yeah the underworks is clear proof

[tawdry flare]

THIS IS SO FIRE

[serene belfry]

yea fair point

[edgy stone]

Everything involving the citadels religion is dystopian

[rugged storm]

and only the damage to hornet, hornet needs to hit the original hitbox to damage it

[vague whale]

unsurprisingly

[foggy fractal]

someone has gotta make a modded boss fight now with unique sprites and everything

[silk dirge]

absolution not granted.

[serene belfry]

also it seems like from that one pious dude that the religion used to be very different and ascetic

[silk dirge]

team cherry made savage beastfly like that for a reason it looks so punchable

[limber anvil]

Image says godseeker...

[serene belfry]

but now literal objects of faith are being used as a object of desire and temptation ironically

[silk dirge]

like tell me you wouldnt want to just punch savage beastfly in the face it looks like it wants it

[edgy stone]

Hallownest had a societal hierarchy and gap as well but it is significantly less so than pharloom

[vague whale]

with your pfp you should be able to remember his name...

[edgy stone]

Hallownest was based on the idea of omelas

[rugged storm]

make the normal beastfly summons randomly dash towards you midway through their dash

[edgy stone]

A utopia that is specifically kept alive by the suffering of a child

[serene belfry]

i didnt even meet him in game 😭 just heard of him here and read the dialogue

[edgy stone]

Which in of itself is dystopian

[cerulean abyss]

I think that hera wanted the pale kings kid so that hornet could go back to pharloom and wreck shit

[rugged storm]

the hitbox to damage it is the same, it's only the hitbox where you get damaged

[polar latch]

y'know how there's a special ending for beating the game cursed? they should have done that but let you leave the slab without your cloak

[vague whale]

damn lol I went "Hey wait that's the wrong soulslike metroidvania" when I met the penitent

[silk dirge]

oh wait i think i read that poem once

or story or whatever it was

[vague whale]

....naked ending would make the world implode

[silk dirge]

it was in ap lit so fuck it tho i hated that class even tho i somehow got a 4

[tawdry flare]

im boutta do something real stupid

[silk dirge]

1600s love poems almost made me crashout multiple times from how awful they were

[naive talon]

cursed?

[rugged storm]

make the whole map misted bilewater

[polar latch]

The Parasite Baby

[naive talon]

ah

[serene belfry]

yea and the higher class seemed to indulge alot in base desires as well judging from upper city of tears and stuff, for the most part it seems most people were happy and fine.

but one key difference is hallownest didn't rely on HK suffering from the very beginning that wasn't its foundation just a solution to a new problem whereas the citadel was literally built fully upon the suffering and manipulation of those in the underworks

[vague whale]

oh, really, flea puppy pfp user? I never would've guessed

oh I'm not discriminating I respect it immensely

[rugged storm]

wait guys

I just realized we have the white lady and now we have the grey (lady)

both are trees

[silk dirge]

i mean hornet does comment on one of the underworks bugs journal entry she should look more closely at the foundations of the hallownest

that being said i doubt she would find anything if hallownest operated anything like that we would probably have seen it

[serene belfry]

true and there is likely something there with the crystal miners too but again, nowhere near as bad as the underworks

[silk dirge]

i dont care about the maggots being slaves they deserve it

disgusting ass creatures

[rugged storm]

aren't the grubs wait nvm

[vague whale]

they got void chimney sweeps in hallownest

[serene belfry]

didnt the hunter say they taste good or smth theres that at least

[silk dirge]

he was talking about grubs

maggots are like the dude who stole hegemols armor

[serene belfry]

yea i know

[rugged storm]

The boomerage is supposed to be used for flying enemies but it works too well on enemies with huge hitboxes

[serene belfry]

not taste good but: "Consisting mainly of sweet fat, these helpless creatures make excellent provisions for long journeys."

[vague whale]

just input the passcode they sent then...?

[tawdry flare]

Does uh
Does anyone know how to build a mod
EDIT: figured it out, i just press the build button

[rugged storm]

we need p5 vengefly king

where there's two

but instead it's savage beastflies

[naive talon]

uh, satan, than you?

[silk dirge]

i should probably do a silksong boss ranking now

the problem for me is what counts as a boss

[rugged storm]

every bilewater transition there's a 5% chance you just end up in the mist

[limber anvil]

The unused ending does have an achivment image its just unused...

[tawdry flare]

yeah it's unused

[silk dirge]

im not counting zango as a boss like thats just dumb

[naive talon]

https://tenor.com/view/jimmy-butler-jimmy-butler-paper-confused-gif-14478007832172093541

[limber anvil]

I'm looking at the datamined images

[rugged storm]

as in fun or difficult

[silk dirge]

fun

[limber anvil]

Its called ending a no name reguardimg the ending.

[tawdry flare]

WAIT I JUST REALIZED LACE'S PIN ISN'T EXCLUSIVE TO THE SURFACE THEME THATS SO COOL

[silk dirge]

i think ill do my top 5 right now

[rugged storm]

and when you go back you just end up in more mist

[rugged storm]

savage beastfly, croal

[silk dirge]

1. karmelita
2. first sinner
3. lost lace
4. tormented trobbio
5. seth

that feels right

[runic musk]

I like Karmelita

[silk dirge]

idk why people hated on trobbio he felt a lot like grimm in a good way

[runic musk]

Theres a divide with those that absolutely hate her and those that absolutely love her and no inbetween

[tawdry flare]

everyone loves trobbio

[rugged storm]

how can I make this about trobbio

[neat sandal]

he too random

[silk dirge]

literally lost lace

[craggy bison]

Me too bro me too

[silk dirge]

you either absolutely despise lost lace or shes the best fight in the game

[foggy fractal]

nope I can still acess it too

[craggy bison]

Yeah you can probably tell which one of those i am

[silk dirge]

i think shes one of the best fights in the game without any question

[runic musk]

Shes one of the better fights for me as well

[craggy bison]

I absolutely despise my skill issue

[silk dirge]

and then sister of the void is cinema

[runic musk]

Although I do think it should be made to be slightly easier to see where she is

It at times can be quite difficult

[rugged storm]

I forgot about father of flame

[foggy fractal]

odd

[craggy bison]

Guys low key i think embrace the void is the canon ending because why doesn't THK's shade appear when the knight rescues hornet

[rugged storm]

it does?

for a split second

[craggy bison]

Where exactly?

[runic musk]

Thats Shade Lord

Different entity

[craggy bison]

Yeah that's shade lord

[limber anvil]

Also internally act 3 is sometimes refered to as infected

[rugged storm]

oh nvm

mb

[craggy bison]

And also the attack the knight does when freeing hornet is very similar to the attack shade lord uses on absolute radiance

[runic musk]

None of the siblings shown there have a distinct crack on the head?

[craggy bison]

I can't believe i didn't think of this before

Why would the hollow knight's shade not be with the knight and all the other siblings

[clever rapids]

what's the lore of the mist, n why do the butterflies across pharloom all fly towards it

[rugged storm]

THK's probably unminding his own business somewhere else

[clever rapids]

why r there wraiths there

[runic musk]

I like to think the Mist is there because of how long Phantoms been playing that organ

It literally ceases when you defeat them

[clever rapids]

i thought the mist clears when u backtrack right after clearing it tho

[craggy bison]

I still think it's embrace the void

[tawdry flare]

it's a result of the exhaust organ yea

[foggy fractal]

nope

[clever rapids]

but what abt the butterflies

[foggy fractal]

there does seem to have some hk sprites leftover for some reason

[clever rapids]

and like, who the hell is sane enough to play a needolin for them

(i was)

[runic musk]

I wasnt sane enough I brute forced the Mist first time around, entered the Organ, got lost in it somehow, leave it and the area without even fighting Phantom until I was told Phantom was literally right there

If that doesnt tell you my stupidity I dunno what does

[clever rapids]

truly goty for wildly different player experiences

[limber anvil]

OK the names of the 2 cut areas are pharloom bay and coral gourge

[serene belfry]

omg ocean areas

[limber anvil]

So the hermitcrab village was called pharloom bay

[clever rapids]

btw is everything above greymoor considered above ground

[limber anvil]

No

[serene belfry]

everything is underground except maybe the surface but even thats to be discussed whether its a relative surface or the actual surface

[runic musk]

I read coral gourge as coral garage

[austere aurora]

i remember getting through the mist in like 5 minutes cuz i was running architect cogfly and the ghosts thingies died instantly

[limber anvil]

In area save art

[runic musk]

The ghost things were a pain for me until I found out they dash to where you were when they scream

So I just start jumping to bait a high dash since they can't do shit if you're below them.

[limber anvil]

Only 2 cut areas I see... Also the blasted steps seem to be called coral gorge in those files

[bold tapir]

Hey so is the implication in Bilewater that they got ahold of Soul through the snail shaman that went there and we’re gonna try to use it against the citadel?

[vague hull]

lore 🤔

[severe siren]

Coral gorge got turned into blasted steps

[wild zinc]

No it literally got turned into sands of karak

[tawdry flare]

it's both

[severe siren]

Not true

[wild zinc]

The memory crystal tool

[limber anvil]

Also the misf used to be the dustmaze and sinners road used to be called dustpen...

Meaning the coral was drained in favor of the swamp... Jk the swamp already existed

[neat sandal]

when you die on fay mountain

[limber anvil]

Um... Unlike the coral gorge the bay aka the 4th village seems like it made it to act 3 development wise.

Meaning it feels like it was cut very late

[severe siren]

Content update for sure

Bay map shape intact too

[timber pond]

yeah probably. Could even be Fist content update tbh.

[limber anvil]

Where would that fit?

[severe siren]

Could be anywhere idk tbh

My bet is right side of the map

[limber anvil]

That fits perfectly between verdania and bilewater

[severe siren]

Would make sense

[limber anvil]

Any other unused maps like that

[rugged storm]

I know the real reason Hornet was in Greenpath

[timber pond]

Probably because it was never "planted" enough and all the bugs in the og are afflicted by the radiance. it does mention Joni is considered a heritic and lifeblood was something that is banished from being ussed in hallownest, probably because of this reason we see in silksong.

[severe siren]

Cant believe one of my most anticipated areas isnt day 1

💔

Uhhhh do you mean the individual room sprites

[silk dirge]

did team cherry make every room by hand

or did they have some sort of automation script for part of the rooms

[severe siren]

Isnt this just the hunter’s march room

[silk dirge]

i cant imagine making literally every room in silksong by hand

[severe siren]

I believe those are simply how the game determines how to save the rooms you’ve been to

[silk dirge]

but then again ari gibson is a literal higher being irl

i dont know how this mf functions

[severe siren]

Like each room is one sprite

[limber anvil]

Only 2 ideas I don't know are red coral gorge... Either blasted steps or coral with water and gloom.

[silk dirge]

ari gibson is if locked in was a real person

[limber anvil]

Was wisp thicket originally much bigger?

[severe siren]

Nah

It was just meant to appear in the world map alongside the other citadel sub areas

[limber anvil]

Just tiny and had a map XD

Ah

[severe siren]

But they decided it would likely be too much clutter

They were right

[limber anvil]

But pharloom bay was cut... Any idea what the gloom was?

[silk dirge]

maybe an early version of the abyss

the guys in there are called like gloomsacs

one of them glitched my game a few days ago

they muffle your audio when they get on your head

[limber anvil]

Yeah that is my guess the gloom was the original abyss

[silk dirge]

and i got hit into a screen transition by one and it muffled my audio even tho the dude was gone

it was a simple fix tho i just needed to get hit by one again

[limber anvil]

Still to think pharloom bay got cut so late.. The red memory shows up alongside it in a large file... And they never bothered to rename it as "old"

[runic musk]

Oh yea if you start getting eaten by a snatcher then quit to menu your audio is permanently muffled until you get eaten again lol

And I assume if you also die

[hidden hull]

that one massive abyss guy used to be somewhere else and shoot purple stuff instead of void, couldve been whereever that guy was

[limber anvil]

They are called gloom so that is correct

Those are the 2 new void enemies internal ids

[silk dirge]

i tried that and it didnt work lol

[runic musk]

The hell is that even supposed to be a rock?

[silk dirge]

i panicked for a moment and thought my true final boss experience was gonna be ruined by muffled audio

[craggy smelt]

gloom lake, how enchanting sounding...

[silk dirge]

before my technical knowledge kicked in and i was like wait this is actually so shrimple to fix

[dry sparrow]

does it have a name?

[limber anvil]

Probably was a development name for abyss

[limber anvil]

Image only says ending a

[runic musk]

Yea I just let myself get snatched again and broke free to fix it

[dry sparrow]

wonder if its just an older version of the weaver queen ending

[craggy smelt]

probably

[hidden hull]

yeah gives that kinda vibes

[craggy smelt]

maybe they wanted to keep it more ambiguous as to what Hornet would have done
rather than showing her just flat-out being the new Silk

[hidden hull]

"ending a" would imply first ending

[runic musk]

Isnt the cutscene like alt ending or something or was that a custom name

[limber anvil]

Ending b is the base ending you get

Also snare is c and cursed child is d and sister of the void is e

[runic musk]

Tbh i'd figured Cursed be C

Since snare just locks you out of it if you go for that first

[hidden hull]

typical player wouldnt go for that

[dry sparrow]

does anyone know if this unused room actually exists? Is it possible to get in with hacks? what would be inside it?

[hidden hull]

might be steel soul only

[dry sparrow]

thats what people theorized but apparently no not even in that mode

[hidden hull]

weird

[proud cobalt]

Hola amigos

[severe siren]

Add a mode called “coal soul”
Make all surfaces, all terrain, have the deep docks coal effect where staying for too long burns you

The mist would be impossible

[limber anvil]

OK I see what they did... Look at bilewater... The map outline dosnt match the proper map.

[spark valve]

that would be a fun spin on a floor is lava situation

[severe siren]

No time to use needolin

[spark valve]

maybe with exceptions for the mist and weavenest doors

[hidden hull]

does not look like void like at all

[limber anvil]

....

[severe siren]

Entering the heart bosses:

[polar latch]

did we ever get any continuation of the trilobite shrine?

[runic musk]

Nah just make brute forcing Mist mandatory

[severe siren]

Its so cool that you can use the verdania heart to skip one of the other heart bosses, and then use the remaining heart as the replacement memento

[brittle ingot]

Hey, does anyone in here know what happens ||if you lose to Garmond & Zaza in the friendly duel?|| I need to know if a loss results in you being sent to a bench or if it's like the fight with ||Shakra|| where you instead just end up laying on the floor. I never lost that duel so I don't know

[polar latch]

you can fight them????

[runic musk]

Yea

Twice

[polar latch]

shakra too??

[runic musk]

Shakra can only be fought in act 2

[severe siren]

I only tried with shakra but yeah you stay in the same room after a loss

[polar latch]

that's really neat I didn't know you could do that

[brittle ingot]

As in with Shakra you stay in the same room (which I know) or also with Garmond & Zaza?

[hidden hull]

by twice do you mean ||lost garmond||

[runic musk]

Yes

[spark valve]

what's cool is you can lock yourself out of a memento so you can do everything without utterly ruining bellhome ambience

[brittle ingot]

Bruh am I really gonna have to start a whole new playthrough to answer this question

Whatever, another excuse to play after getting steel soul 100% ig

[severe siren]

You dont lock yourself out of it

[spark valve]

can't you bug it so the shamans take all four

[severe siren]

You can just choose not to get it

[severe siren]

No

[spark valve]

unfortunate

[severe siren]

At least im pretty sure

[spark valve]

I thought zip said something about that earlier

[severe siren]

No
The truth was his friend used the green heart but the coral heart was the one that became the memento

[spark valve]

ah

unfortunate

[severe siren]

Lucky for tjem

The coral heart is cooler

[spark valve]

yeah but no heart > any heart

[runic musk]

I did wonder if Green Princes heart could be used as an alternative. Neat.

[limber anvil]

What the map should look like with the cut bay

Got it.

Apparently the sands and blasted steps use last judge area Id. Meaning 2 coral map ids are unused

[polar latch]

really hoping this comes back some day

[limber anvil]

The insane part is it made it into late act 3 development from what I can tell as the image with the name I found reguardimg it. Shows the red memory and abyss.

[polar latch]

oh wow

i really do wonder if it'll be a dlc thing then?

[polar latch]

Still confused on this I don't remember if we did or not

they did confirm dlc

just not what it'll be

[craggy smelt]

I knew it would be there~!

[silk dirge]

steel assasins dlc 🙏

it mentions traitor lord so probably

i wouldnt read much into it

[runic musk]

I believe it as left over

I would doubt they make another dlc under the exact same theme

[limber anvil]

There is a godseeker mask

[polar latch]

to be fair, god seekers ARE some of the few characters I could see returning

[limber anvil]

Is this from HK?

[runic musk]

Yes

[silk dirge]

it probably has to do with silksong starting out as a dlc for hk

[runic musk]

I believe when you have Mask binding active

[timber pond]

I would want that to be last and for it to leave off on another cliffhanger for a game in the Steel City

[polar latch]

alongside Grimm troupe, zote, and like. Bretta

[severe siren]

Likely that code was ported over
I believe even the godseeker mode icon is intact in ss, and a binding mask as well (the golden one), the same one from HK and not the unique SS mask shape

[limber anvil]

I can't find any cut enemies for pharloom bay... Despite it having made far into development unless it is the cut bilewater enemies

[severe siren]

Only barnacle bay enemies we knew of were the blue crab things and MAYBE the pukebug

[severe siren]

The pukebug area from 2019 was cut

[spark valve]

Cragglers or whatever they’re called

[limber anvil]

I see

[polar latch]

blue crab thing?

[silk dirge]

cragglanker

[limber anvil]

Seems like early abyss

[polar latch]

these are in game!

[severe siren]

Highly doubt it

[limber anvil]

Moved

[spark valve]

They got moved to the wormways though not the best sign for barnacle area being something they plan to add back

[timber pond]

These are in game, they are the baby's of the big crab to wormways you. An find

[silk dirge]

thats kind of a crazy thing to include in reveal trailer

[polar latch]

they're baby cragglers or whatever it's called yeah

[limber anvil]

Yeah...

[karmic spire]

That's the weird metal cocoon hanging from the ceiling in Deepnest, right?

[severe siren]

I never said the enemy itself was cut

[polar latch]

yep!

[limber anvil]

Still why cut it so late in development with the 4th town

[severe siren]

But these were native to it

[silk dirge]

cool ancient sea creature is any more lore needed

[severe siren]

Sadly their home is gone

[karmic spire]

Damn, I haven't encountered any mention of it yet in my file but I hope we learn more about it

[limber anvil]

Leaving a hole in the map

[karmic spire]

This is very true, bonus points if its a big sea creature

[limber anvil]

You can find them in wormways

[silk dirge]

gigantic chonky ancient seal go

[limber anvil]

Post act 2 if you kill the miniboss

[karmic spire]

Triggers thalassophobia but so worth it

[severe siren]

Barnacle Bay should have an anglerfish

[silk dirge]

how does a seal trigger thalassophobia thats crazy😭

[severe siren]

Or some jumpscare surprise encounter

[spark valve]

Spider crab

[severe siren]

Bench on some random rock floating in the ocean then the rock gets up and its actually the shell of a giant crab

[karmic spire]

Nonono, a big seal. Let that sink it

[spark valve]

No mantis shrimp boss is a crime

[craggy smelt]

some kind of bug version, yes

[tawny basin]

Okay, come in sink!

[severe siren]

Then phase 2 it rips the bench off and starts using it as a melee weapon

[quartz salmon]

barnacle bay should be the hk equivalent to the fishing village in bloodborne

[craggy smelt]

every hit heals you, though

[severe siren]

Except your HP is turned into lifeblood prior

Sit down accidentally and you fucking die

[tawny basin]

Petition to add fishes to city of tears

[craggy smelt]

oh noo, you lose infinite regen!

[karmic spire]

Lmaoo, and when the thing asks you "Are you certain whatever you're doing is worth it?"

[tawny basin]

Where is the legendary water?

[karmic spire]

Its okay, I'm sure we'll get a DLC where we can explore the void lake below Pharloom and encounter all sorts of nasties, big and small

[karmic spire]

We used to be together but then our relationship evaporated, like something that evaporates

[limber anvil]

Wish there was a way to check when the photo was made originally

[severe siren]

My subnautica copy was personalized i literally got sent to the dead zone randomly

[limber anvil]

Would downloading the game give it or nah?

Yeah...

[severe siren]

Must

[spark valve]

What does that even mean

[severe siren]

Know

More

About the bay

And Lömm the Poop Snail

[spark valve]

I don’t think bay is coming back except maybe as an access point for something else

[severe siren]

I disagree

Its very likely to come back objectively and i dont wanna hear from you again

https://tenor.com/view/metal-gear-rising-metal-gear-rising-revengeance-senator-armstrong-revengeance-i-made-it-the-fuck-up-gif-25029602

[spark valve]

I didn’t say I didn’t think it could come back at all

[severe siren]

Ari would NOT cut such a brilliant idea

Especially with that interview with his stance on concept art

[limber anvil]

It was cut stupidly late.

[severe siren]

It HAS to come back

And it HAS to be that promised backer village

[limber anvil]

My guess is 2022 at the earliest

[severe siren]

And we still need the other backer shit

[limber anvil]

Wait the village was a kickstarter one?

[severe siren]

(Sharpe)

[limber anvil]

Thought that was lion village

[severe siren]

There was supposed to be a backer village

I dont think any of the ones we’ve seen were it at all

[limber anvil]

Still any idea why they cut an area so late in development?

[safe barn]

If poop hermit cannot become a love interest in dlc I’m leaving this game a negative review

[severe siren]

Cause its coming later soon trust

[spark valve]

We don’t know when they cut it

[limber anvil]

Its alongside images of act 3 areas... And isn't labeled as old unlike the coral area

[spark valve]

Ok? I don’t know how they organize their sprites but that doesn’t really say that much

[severe siren]

“Release game please”
“Ok but we’re taking away the things everyone was most excited for”

[limber anvil]

Its with images of the abyss red memory current coral tower and stuff

[severe siren]

Yeah

[spark valve]

In no way is this robust indication it was a very recent cut

[severe siren]

Bone bottom is also in the bottom so idk man

[limber anvil]

Several ones that say old are in the files with it but not included in the compilation image

[spark valve]

Ok? They could’ve just forgotten to take it out of the compilation or not bothered because there was no reason to

[limber anvil]

True.

[spark valve]

Karmelita

[winged badger]

Red coral gorge is just this pinstress room apparently in blasted

[dry sparrow]

so in the end, why did GMS order hornet captured?

did she just want a 'daughter' and was desperate to bring back any from the dying weaver bloodline? would she just have kept her imprisoned like a bird in a cage?

[craggy smelt]

she was harvesting Weavers for their silk magic, to increase her influence via the Haunting and accelerate her awakening. Hornet was 'sensed strong with silk'.

[winged badger]

Also the bellshrine_coral one that was in that list of benches is just this one.

All the coral Caverns ones are just the sands area. Funny they gave the pinstress area the name of red_coral_gorge as a connecting area

[craggy smelt]

what the 'Hang?'

[limber anvil]

I see

[winged badger]

Halls

[limber anvil]

According yo the images I read. The coral gorge old was the water one and the new one is the dry one.

Same name. One just says old

Well I'm going yo bed see ya would like to continue to help but its 2am. At least I uncovered the barnicle areas name

[hasty flint]

concept: the grimm troupe arrives, expecting pharloom to be in complete ruin, but you've been successfully rebuilding in the epilogue. so in order to have the flames of a fallen kingdom to feed on, they start trying to fuck things up, convincing trobbio to get in on the scheme by appealing to his histrionic tendencies

[gaunt anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/cooking-gif-10163405812912894400

[fair hull]

This is a fat joke

[timber pond]

Would also go with silksongs thing of "Here are the full consequences"

Cause in hollow knight, any consequnce of something has already passed. in silksong though, we see it play out.

[hasty flint]

and silksong is a lot of deciding on taking a different path with things. it's one thing to reject that which already exists, another entirely to build something to replace it. hornet chose to reject taking the path so many pale beings did, now we see what it actually entails

much more follow-through in this game

[timber pond]

Last DLC is The masters showing up and fucking killing everything💀

[tough plinth]

Are the Blackbarrens and City of Steel places we already knew about or am I just getting deja vu

[true vector]

new places, city of steel might be in dlc though cuz we know dlc has steel enemies

[sage flame]

How do we know the dlc is steel focused?

[nova sluice]

We don't
All we know is that the Steel content is probably coming due to how the bosses were chosen and made (backers and etc)
Could be a simple update for example, doesn't need to be a full dlc

[spring merlin]

I wonder if the steel assassins (who seem to be connected to void) where cut/moved as void was made essential to the story in act 3. Maybe it wasn’t at first?

[timber pond]

Probably. Most things in this game seem to have went through iterations. Like coral zone

[true vector]

True act 3 is pretty disconnected from 1 and 2

[craggy smelt]

in light of the Steel Masters not approving of certain usages of the Void (at least in their vassals) and their wrath coming down on violators, the Steel Assassins showing up post Act 3 to come after Hornet would be a decent premise for a follow-up Act 4

[timber pond]

The issue is take with that is what yak says above me lol

The Masters are implied to have power enough to even kill pale beings like its Tuesday if they violate thier law, whatever it is

[craggy smelt]

mhmm

it could be something lowscale, like a couple of Steel Assassin bosses, or something larger with cut areas being added

[timber pond]

Therefore they are likely just... going to flaten pharloom lol

[nova sluice]

I mean, it's not like TC makes good setups and leave them behind to make new stories

[craggy smelt]

it just takes 7 years to follow up on some of them

(hopefully not that long for this stuff)

[timber pond]

But this is kind of on the same level or even above the level of weavers den in the first game

I think the Steel city will either be a DLC or its own game even lol.

Would be funni

[nova sluice]

I would love to go back and see what HK speculations were being done before the dlcs came in

BlackWyrm stuff for example

[craggy smelt]

I can't imagine actually seeing the City of Steel, amazing as that would be.
I imagine it would be something Citadel-sized... if they do it, it might be off in its own separate DLC campaign, an entirely different game mode from Pharloom

adding in barnacle bay and coral forest, maybe

[timber pond]

The thing is, if the masters will Send pepole to Hunt bugs who summon void to the ends of the earth, if a WHOLE KINGDOM is collectively to blame (in a sense) for the void coming about Via GMS? Then I would wager they would either send an army, or one of them would come themselves to flatten pharloom

[nova sluice]

Honestly I wouldn't expect a vast amount of new assets, just the use of present ones and cut content that is already present on the files

[timber pond]

Depending on how much manpower they actually possess of course*

[craggy smelt]

now there's a thought... one of the Masters personally...
I figured it would just be Sharpe and co. after Hornet specifically
before SS, I thought they'd be angry at her because of what her dad did with the Void, now she has her own Void-crimes to answer for

[timber pond]

Depends on how influential The City of Steel actually is and how vast

If they are capable, mabye they would send an army of constructs.

Again ,we don't really know how the masters operate. If they themselves are powerful, or if they simply comand alot of power and are not strong themselves

[craggy smelt]

it's all so tantalizing...

[nova sluice]

We also have the White Wyrm that was related to Hornet's capture. There are many angles for a dlc but they can always go with "yey, circus is in town" and throw a curveball at us

[woven arrow]

Do we know what exactly makes hornets lifespan so long? Like pale king was a god and stuff but what was he? Was he something like the radiance/gms?

[true vector]

Wyrm different from radiance and gms but still higher being

[nova sluice]

And we can see some "normal" bugs having a huge lifespan anyway so old age is a weird concept anyway

[timber pond]

The city of the white wyrm is probably hallownest lol

[spring merlin]

Weird to ask it, but are there any “legal” implications for not including backer content? Ofc I don’t want team cherry to be sued but Im just wondering if they “have” to include backer content

[woven arrow]

So hornets a half wyrm got it

[craggy smelt]

Pale King was a higher being of the pale variety yes

[woven arrow]

Whats pale variety gng 💔

[timber pond]

I mean i just think its inevitable tbh.

[woven arrow]

Does that mean the pale oil we get in silksong related to higher beings as well

[craggy smelt]

'pale being' refers to exceptionally powerful beings - like Pale King, White Lady, Great Mother Silk, etc.

[true vector]

Its from a sylphean slug

[timber pond]

Yeah probably their blood or something lol

[nova sluice]

I thought about it but would be crazy to ask Hallownest to help kidnapping Hornet, who would even try?
Also, what even is left of Hallownest at this point anyway

[timber pond]

oh yeah forgot about this

[modern bay]

What is a sylphean slug

[true vector]

its their “gland”

[craggy smelt]

certain things are said to be related to the pale beings
pale ore is one
the Palestag in Verdania is called 'pale touched'
the slugs that make pale oil might also be like this

[modern bay]

Also did we figure out why the blue stuff in Silksong does what it does in contrast to Hollow Knight

[true vector]

good question 🤓

[nova sluice]

Lifeblood?

[modern bay]

Yea

[craggy smelt]

I just go with 'those alchemist guys were spreading it faster than normal'

[timber pond]

The Commandment is sent to the bugs kidnaping hornet as instructions. there is no consent of any party.

[nova sluice]

I mean, on SS we can see someone actually tempering with it instead of just growing naturally

[woven arrow]

Or probably phasmium a more pure version of lifeblood? Idk

[modern bay]

Makes sense, I feel like maybe an excuse could be that the ecosystem didn't have time to adapt to it

[modern bay]

This as well

It was also taboo in Hollow Knight to use Lifeblood anyway

Probably for that reason

[nova sluice]

Hmm ye, it's not like White Wyrm answered anyway

[craggy smelt]

there were some cut quests about Zylotol sending you across the kingdom for different ingredients to mix with it, I feel like that would've explained a lot
(but cut content is cut content)

[timber pond]

Its probably a more extreme mutated lifeblood and explains why its practice and use in hallownest was banned in its prime and why Joni (where you get the Joni's blessing charm) is a heretic for use and practice of it.

[modern bay]

I like this explanation and agree

I think it's a really cool idea for it to spread quickly and have adverse consequences on the local ecosystem

[timber pond]

Also might be related to the possible higher being you see in the lifeblood core in the abyss of the first game

[modern bay]

On top of all the other problems Pharloom already has

[timber pond]

You can hear the alchemist communicating with something if you play the needolin near its corpse

[modern bay]

Pilby has made me sad with some things he says alone

[modern bay]

I don't think I tried, haven't gone back after the quest

[wary plover]

God how many times do we have to "collect the 7 dragon balls" in this game

[woven arrow]

So hornet was brought in pharloom because of her weaver heritage and not of her pale thingy

I need to pay more attention to dialogue 💔

[modern bay]

Yes

There were several Weavers before her who were taken to the tower and were not successful or interested in helping Grand Mother Silk

[dapper willow]

Its interesting how silksong has a subtle environmentalist angle in it

[brisk viper]

its been awhile since i played HK and im also brainfarting a little but does anyone remember where in the game (hk) theyve mentioned hornets history with the bees? like her training with vespa and her needle originating from there

[nova sluice]

Memory question
We can get inside the memories of living things like GreenP and Karmelia but how can we get inside the memories of dead shells like Khan and even statues/flowers like Nyleth?

[timber pond]

I mean, if they Do make Steel assassin Sharpe a DLC. It would likely be in Act 3s context. confirming that the masters are now chasing hornet for aiding in summoning void. Meaning she now HAS to go deal with them like she dealt with pharloom seting up EVEN more unresolved hollow knight content 😂

[timber pond]

"Memory" Is a collective term it seems

if theya re still remembered by silk or something else

their memory is still there

[umbral moth]

from what i understand, hornet being the child of three queens was something they planned to show in hollow knight but fsr it never made it into the game. it's only been mentioned by team cherry here and there before silksong reveals it

[timber pond]

The statue of Nyleth itself is her memory

[nova sluice]

I wasn't present for the HK experience but do you know if we got bosses or areas as updates instead of only dlcs?

[timber pond]

yes for bosses for areas kind of

[teal finch]

this is effectively the same question as w dream nailing the false knight / soul master / lost kin in hk

i dont know if TC thought that deep enough about it tbh

[woven arrow]

Oh yeah definitely her needle gets the name "hivesteel needle" when you refine it thrice

[dapper willow]

the memory is imprinted into the silk or somehting

[brisk viper]

:o oh i see. shes the princess ever...

[timber pond]

Well, think of it like bulding a monument to someones memory, or a historical site to ones memory. we are acessing it and taking it.

[dapper willow]

The princessiest princess ever

[umbral moth]

the princess of princesses

[dapper willow]

this is getting into adventure time territory

Hornet would do fine in that world tbh

[nova sluice]

This is honestly kinda sad

[dapper willow]

yes

[untold tinsel]

guys is the memorium decorated how pharloom used to look like? there are a lot of voltnests and stuff

[timber pond]

ITs to preserve life from pharlooms prime yes.

[craggy smelt]

see also her exchange with Eva where she's mentioned that she's tried and failed to have children in the past

Eva: My mothers shared the curse of their tribe, to conceive a child is a painful, near impossible task.
Hornet: I know the curse well, Eva, for I am also it’s victim, and spawn of one who managed to overcome its limits.

[nova sluice]

It's a good curse, I can only imagine the schemes and chaos that hundreds of thousands of weavers could make

It's fine as it is

[dapper willow]

oof

sad that hornet can't have children

I guess she has lace now

[silk dirge]

yeah

me when lace's pin is permanently in my title screen rock now even when i switch it from surface

what did tc mean by this

[nova sluice]

I mean, Hornet could try Quirrel, he seems pretty old too

[silk dirge]

quirrel is fucking dead bro

[vague field]

What’re y’all’s dlc theories besides a boss rush at some point

[silk dirge]

steel assassins

i doubt grimm troupe is coming back

bc grimm only wants dead kingdoms

and pharloom isnt dead afterwards

[nova sluice]

Just pull him back from your memories, it's easy.
Assassinate 3 good bugs for their hearts
Find some insane snails
Endure an absurd amount of pain
And there we go, Quirrel is back

[silk dirge]

your gonna need like 10 hearts for that one

[vague field]

This, also silksong isn’t about dreams so the nightmare realm seems a little out there

[silk dirge]

people have said red memory takes place in nightmare realm but it doesnt seem like it does

i think its just bc hornet is red or smth

[vague field]

I’m praying for this one, but watch as they instead announce hollow knight: steelheart, the third game

[silk dirge]

her cloak is

[nova sluice]

Is Quirrel 100% confirmed dead or just like hints here and there?

[silk dirge]

pretty much confirmed

[nova sluice]

Damn...well, no more dates for Hornet thn

[silk dirge]

he leaves his nail on the shore of blue lake after saying he would never leave it behind while he still needs it or smth like that

[nova sluice]

The deed is done, maybe he just doesn't need to fight anymore, just chill

[timber pond]

Perhaps this is why herrah looks so diffrent from other weavers. She is deformed in the process. Also why She wanted a child so badly.

Thats fukced up man

[nova sluice]

I mean, also PK is really good at making kids

[craggy smelt]

a lot of that might be from White Lady

[nova sluice]

Maybe that's what ultimately killed PK, the sheer amount of debt after paying for child support

[dapper willow]

PK and WL are a certified power couple

[timber pond]

as in, they literally posses vast amounts of power yes 😂

[vague field]

I actually noticed that during the first sinner cutscene, her mask is formed in the memory to be the shape it is when we find her, with the jagged top. I’m thinking it’s possible that each weaver could have a different shape, depending on the base arachnid that they started as before their ascension

[dapper willow]

makes some sense

[vague field]

Maybe I’m just reaching and they kept the head shape in the cutscene to make sure players knew it was the sinner in specific

[nova sluice]

Sadly we don't have enough examples of weavers that are shaped differently to better understand this

[timber pond]

well yes, but with the context of "Weavers are sterile" it could be a combo of both

[vague field]

Agreed

we will most likely never know for sure so imma just say it’s both and believe it

[waxen forum]

Except they aren’t

There’s a lore room in the cradle with various orders to hunt down weaver descendants

[elfin niche]

Zote v Sherma street fighter tribute dlc

Team Cherry Racing kart spinoff

[timber pond]

Well the Eva conversation implies its very difficult

[elfin niche]

Grand Mother Sulk where she's just really upset she lost and moans about it a lot

[waxen forum]

Clearly not that difficult if there’s multiple generations of weaver descendants on the run

[valid compass]

||can anyone give me a rundown on the act 2 aftermath and whats happening in the abyss? the ghost of lace appeared in the abyss and my dumbass fat fingered and skipped a few dialogues||

[whole hawk]

is there any lore in the game that explains the religious meaning and importance of bells? I feel like I barely read any lore about that

[waxen forum]

Bell tolls are used to maintain schedule for the workers

[drowsy vessel]

She wishes us luck and says that another creature is waiting below

• L bozo cus we're stupid

[valid compass]

no like the thing about granny holding lace and screaming every once in a while

what is the stance of lace regarding granny in the current situation

[waxen forum]

Hatred

[lyric widget]

did you find this in the game itself? we're thinking this might be cut, we didn't get this line

[drowsy vessel]

@waxen forum RCG???

U cool

[valid compass]

okay so granny is kind of fucking shit up in pharloom with the void threads and lost lace is under her control?

[drowsy vessel]

She is glad that her mother knows that it was her daughter who dealt the final blow

[valid compass]

nice

[waxen forum]

The void is trying to drag granny silk down but granny silk is tying herself to all of pharloom with her silk to fight back and protect lace, who is trying to kill silk even if it costs her own life

Their relationship is complicated

[valid compass]

ohh okay

one final thing

what was the reason granny silk was kidnapping weavers all across the world

[waxen forum]

She’s the ultimate controlling parent

[drowsy vessel]

This explains why the void reacts to nidolin

[waxen forum]

You know how radiance cursed everyone, even the moths that still worshipped her, because some moths left for the pale king?

It’s like that, but GMS and the weavers

[whole hawk]

Revenge but also she milked them to secure silk for Lace

[drowsy vessel]

LMAO

[waxen forum]

The weavers were once basically worshipped as gods going by the effigies

But because a few of them fled her control, she tore down the entire weaver institution

To the point they’re now scary stories for children

Even loyal weavers like widow are tortured

[valid compass]

so is gms the weaver god like radiance is the god of idk

[waxen forum]

Higher beings like radiance, pale king, and GMS can uplift lesser bugs

Radiance uplifted the moths and GMS uplifted lesser spiders

[valid compass]

oh okay i was wondering what caused sentience in pharloom

[waxen forum]

We don’t know if GMS is responsible for all sentience in pharloom

In fact it seems like the citadel exist in some form prior to GMS going by the whiteward experiments and some act 3 lore

[valid compass]

explains why the roaches in nameless town are just lowkey chill cockroaches

[waxen forum]

There was, at bare minimum, several civilizations before Silk because of act 3

The citadel may have existed in some form and she just took it over and expanded to conquer the rest of the map

[blissful harbor]

are you sure it’s cut? i thought it was one of the dialogue when you first meet her or the first few memory lockets

[whole hawk]

Also we dont really know what the full culture of Pharloom looked like ages ago

[blissful harbor]

i swear ive seen her say that before

[whole hawk]

The citadel apparently wasn't even an extravagant structure

just a humble stone temple filled with ascetic monks

[valid compass]

so gms brought sentience to bugs by introducing micro silks into their bodies

like how we have a credit card's worth of microplastics in our body

[waxen forum]

thats the thing though, she clearly didnt introduce sentience to pharloom

there was 4 civilizations without higher beings before she arrived

or 3 and whatever nyleth was doing

nylteth isnt really sentient or part of a civilization

shes kinda just a plant

[valid compass]

i dont think you can fight back the haunting right cuz you are just puppeteered

[waxen forum]

and none of those civilizations had higher beings that we know of

which means they had sentience without a higher being

i feel like if they had gods there wouldve been dialogue about silk fighting against the gods of the land, but no, she pretty easily took over apparently

[fallow linden]

Radiance also created the moths iirc

[waxen forum]

did she create them ex nihilo or uplift lesser moths

and is there really a meaningful difference

[valid compass]

i remember hornet talking to the shamans in act 3 about how she felt the influence of void in the begninning like whats that about

[whole hawk]

She was literally their creator, no?

[waxen forum]

we never see a higher being outright create sentient life iirc, just uplift pre-existing non-sentient life

but i dont really think thats an important distinction, for all intents and purposes it's basically the same thing

same result either way

[blissful harbor]

to our knowledge unn just created the mosskin
as for the moths, imo i think due to the pharlid stuff, it could be possible Rad did the same to lumaflies to create moths, we see one fly off of where seers body used to be after she ascends

[waxen forum]

i forgot about unn

but yeah i was thinking the moths were uplifted lumaflies

with just hollow knight lore it could go either way, but with GMS explictly uplifting spiders to make weavers im more inclined to lean towards uplifting over ex nihilo creation as the standard practice

[valid compass]

so what ending of hollow knight is canon now that we know hallownest has fallen

[blissful harbor]

the nightmare heart also seems to have just created the grimmkin
i don’t think there’s a standard when it comes to laing life for HBs, they simply do what they want

[blissful harbor]

dnm/etv
both work

[plucky ivy]

Does anyone know if we ever get ANY information on how Hornet was captured?

[valid compass]

she kept fighting the citadel goons until they overwhelmed her and she got captured

[waxen forum]

There’s a choral commandment ordering it but nothing about how

[blissful harbor]

we know they expected resistance from her and the cage was specifically brought because of that
but not the specifics

[kind steeple]

How do everyone here just has blades or smth on their hands bruv

[blissful harbor]

i imagine they just jumped her

[plucky ivy]

Ty

[plucky ivy]

Fair

[waxen forum]

The cradle has lore about previous capture missions and casualties from hunting weaver descendants

So we can assume Hornet had a pretty good kdr before going down

[plucky ivy]

Ahhh that makes sense

[maiden meteor]

There’s also that fly guy who can just slap a cage onto you

[plucky ivy]

...yeah ur right

[maiden meteor]

These seals seem to be unbreakable and draining strength

[whole hawk]

I feel like higher beings closely related to dreams like the radiance and nightmare heart are more capable of creating some bizarre form of life

[waxen forum]

A quarter weaver took down like 20 guys before being captured

Hornet as half weaver half god presumably took a lot more

A heavily crippled quarter weaver*

[maiden meteor]

They could also jump her suddenly

[valid compass]

So did gms extract silk from all of the captured weavers?

[maiden meteor]

Since she’s really damn powerful sudden attack would be their best bet

[waxen forum]

Based hornet

[maiden meteor]

ahhh makes sense

I wonder how many were sent

we see that a handful returned

[restive prairie]

why does the knight/shade lord rescue hornet? (sorry this is offtopic and i just came barging in with my question)

[waxen forum]

I can’t check rn but I think it’s said in the choral commandment

[blissful harbor]

they care about her

[whole hawk]

Probably a ton considering how many were needed for weakened weavers

[maiden meteor]

Hornet is probably the only person Knight really cared about

[restive prairie]

sorry, knight and care in the same sentence?

[blissful harbor]

TK isn’t a perfect vessel

[maiden meteor]

Yep, it’s not hollow, never was

void heart unites void under bearer’s will

which you know, hollow vessel wouldn’t have

[restive prairie]

ohh

[left oyster]

Blackbarrens is related to the Blackwyrm I just can't prove it yet

[blissful harbor]

winged nosk directly shows this affection either way, nosk is said to take the forms of those close to a person to pull at their heart strings

[waxen forum]

However many dudes a ‘Full Chamber’ is, Hornet killed all but like 7 from the opening cutscene

[drowsy vessel]

It is w/ void heart

[blissful harbor]

VH makes it even less pure if anything

[left oyster]

Also whats the deal with the fucking butterfly

Thingy

[waxen forum]

I think that was lace

[drowsy vessel]

At least better than THK

[valid compass]

Why did hornet mother have kid with pale king? So that her child becomes more strong?

[waxen forum]

She wanted to kill Hornet so GMS couldn’t have her

[lyric widget]

if you have a screenshot it would be appreciated, we can't add or use this line for the wiki now

[waxen forum]

So she freed her

[blissful harbor]

weavers have trouble reproducing, seems to me like PK’s godly genes helped circumvent that

[waxen forum]

Clearly not that much trouble reproducing

If there’s 3rd gen weaver children on the run

[lyric widget]

which is probably why that Eva line was cut as well

[blissful harbor]

lmao TC realized it didn’t make sense

[lyric widget]

we've been trying to get that line to trigger and it's really impossible

[lilac monolith]

pharlids?

[valid compass]

Weavers are probably on the verge of extinction right

[blissful harbor]

they looked at the little weavers running around in the first game and were like
wait a minute

[lyric widget]

that's probably how it went lmao

[waxen forum]

My theory was that Eva is an attempt to make a new weaver that isn’t descendant from GMS

Since GMS can apparently sense them

[elfin niche]

Same as Hallownest pretty much.

[whole hawk]

Eva was supposed to be an artificial god

[waxen forum]

That also makes sense

[elfin niche]

https://tenor.com/view/wall-e-pixar-disney-eve-hug-gif-16045137

[waxen forum]

Could be both honestly, the weavers were worshipped as gods before Silk tore it all down after their betrayal

[lilac monolith]

did GMS create the weavers?

[blissful harbor]

yep

[waxen forum]

She uplifted lesser spider to make them yes

[valid compass]

What kind of bug is gms supposed to be

[waxen forum]

She’s not really a bug

[blissful harbor]

she’s not a bug she’s a god

[lilac monolith]

elden ring bug

[blissful harbor]

she’s like the most non bug ever, very humanoid lol

[lilac monolith]

but why create them just to betray them?

[blissful harbor]

they “betrayed” her first technically

[waxen forum]

They fled her control because she’s the most controlling helicopter mom to ever exist

[valid compass]

Like radiance is a moth and pale king is a worm but like a worm from dune

[blissful harbor]

both are also not bugs

[waxen forum]

And because some fled her control she basically tore down the entire weaver institution

[blissful harbor]

Rad is a moth shaped light, Pk is a fucking dragon

[valid compass]

Idk bruh what fucking animal she could be

[waxen forum]

Unn is a blob slug thing

The white lady is a tree

Gods aren’t really bugs a lot of the time

[valid compass]

True that's so fucking cool

[blissful harbor]

anyways i really like Silk’s design
kinda makes me wish the other HBs had weird otherworldly designs compared to the rest of the game

nightmare heart was kinda like that in the first game being a giant human heart

[rough siren]

is pale oil made from pale king's hair or smth

[wispy phoenix]

What happens to lace in ending 1? Is it implied she basically just dies because there's no longer a source of silk.

[waxen forum]

Which ending is ending 1

Standard act 2 ending?

[thorny brook]

My guess is Hornet becomes her mother. I want Lace to live

[waxen forum]

Hornet claims Silk’s divine mantle

[wispy phoenix]

Weaver queen

[waxen forum]

Presumably Hornet would end up with the exact same relationship lace had with GMS if she wants

Since lace is dependent on GMS to live (I think??? True ending complicates this) and hornet now is the silk god

[wispy phoenix]

Huh I see

[novel night]

tbh even in act 3 ending im guessing shell become dependent on hornet for silk

[wispy phoenix]

It doesn't feel like a very satisfying end to me 😦

[waxen forum]

Lace and Phantom were made because GMS wanted children that were totally dependent on her after the weavers fled

[maiden meteor]

We see like 3 weavers throughout both games

[waxen forum]

Lace explicitly is a ‘fragile form of life’

And yet lace can live after silk dies?

Kinda weird

[maiden meteor]

and Cradle logs imply that only half breed are left

[novel night]

unfortunately thats the best ending lace could have i think 😔 shes a tragic character from conception

[novel night]

if anything i do see it as a win cause shes finally not depending on her abuser

[maiden meteor]

Maybe when GMS gave Hornet super boost she also transferred some of her power in Lace

[waxen forum]

Hmm

Maybe lace got a silk heart upgrade

[left oyster]

Also Weavers' nature is controlling and to want power is what I got from some dialogues, Hornet says that the mantle of monarch tempts her or something, and Herrah said something about rejecting the Weavers' wishes

[maiden meteor]

I feel like Hornet was talking about her PK lineage

[left oyster]

Maybe the void granted her independence or something

[waxen forum]

Makes sense given their origin, they share some of GMS’ tendencies

[brazen pier]

chat is hornet void or nah

[maiden meteor]

Mossbag’s wrath upon thee

[waxen forum]

Other way around, void is hornet, obviously

[novel night]

tbh my crack theory is thar grandma silk used void to make lace and phantom cause like.. just look at phantom idk 💀 but theres no evidence beyond that

[blissful harbor]

pretty sure she meant her wyrm side and how wyrms are literally born to rule

[lilac monolith]

wait but is hera a weaver or related to?

[blissful harbor]

herrah is a weaver

[waxen forum]

Herrah is a full weaver

A first gen of GMS

Probably not one of the earliest weavers, but likely a direct creation of GMS

[brazen pier]

actually interesting question have we figured what the seizures hornet has actually are

[lilac monolith]

trauma to the brain prob

[maiden meteor]

I think falling few miles in a metal cage does that to you

[waxen forum]

Dude she just fell like 13 million miles

[left oyster]

Lace may mot be made 100% of Silk after the True Ending.

We know the bugs of the Ancient Caste used VOID to essentially give up their souls, cleansing themselves to rid themselves of emotion becoming beings of void.

Maybe after the True Ending, after being cleansed, Lace is made of Silk, but her form is sustained by Void.

[novel night]

hornet brain damage theory

[brazen pier]

ain't one way after that tho

[waxen forum]

Go jump from blasted steps, see how long it takes to fall

[maiden meteor]

I mean it happens in very beginning and Act 3 beginning

when she also falls few miles

[brazen pier]

yeah I did already (against my will)

[maiden meteor]

Maybe entire Act 3 is a hallucination from brain damage

[waxen forum]

Makes sense

[left oyster]

The "god of gods" when I coat myself with everblooms (it can't do anything)

[brazen pier]

like that idea tbh

[maiden meteor]

Good luck finding enough everblooms

[tiny stone]

what is gms

[waxen forum]

Your mother

[lilac monolith]

and all the void bugs she's killling are normal bugs freed from the silk

[maiden meteor]

Hornet is in Bellhart in a coma still

[left oyster]

I just need to find one and clone it

[maiden meteor]

it’s just like Adventure Time plot

[left oyster]

There are many ways to clone a plant

[waxen forum]

Hornet just needs to keep diving into her memory to get more

Why doesn’t she just farm them

Is she stupid?

[maiden meteor]

that would require more shamans

[left oyster]

Net Song

[maiden meteor]

those 3 seem to have dies in process

[waxen forum]

Go into her memory and spawn some shamans

I feel like a lot of problems could be solved with this method

It just costs a lot of soul to do right?

[maiden meteor]

Dive in a dream to find shamans to dive deeper in a dream

[waxen forum]

Pale beings have limitless soul

[maiden meteor]

Silkception

[waxen forum]

Go get tree mom

Have her fuel some memory dives

[left oyster]

Why didn't Hornet just bring the Knight out of her memory instead to calm the Void

Is she stupid

[left oyster]

I'm pretty sure it's more like they can produce soul limitlessly, not that they inherently possess limitless soul

[waxen forum]

Why didnt she bring out more hornets

[left oyster]

Given how the Kingsoul works or something idk

[waxen forum]

Clearly that means we just need to wait until we have enough soul to bring another pale being out of her memory

And then we exponentially grow the pale being soul production economy

Until we drown pharloom in pale kings

I see no reason this wouldn’t work

[neat crest]

||does this confirm that hornet was trained by the queen bee in hive||

[waxen forum]

3 moms is canon yes

[timber phoenix]

It's so ironic that the best most feminist game out there is made by 3 dudes

[white panther]

Opinions:
Do you think the weavers overreacted with the whole song and leaving Pharloom?

[green yoke]

Considering that the First Sinner's sin of Apostasy was more than likely just not wanting to be beholden to GMS, and the punishment was "immortal life in prison"

I wouldn't call it an overreaction

[waxen forum]

GMS is the most insane controlling mom ever

[white panther]

Maybe she is british and went full "Spare the rod, spoil the child"

[lapis geode]

Uhmm... HOWW???

[white panther]

to be fair we know almost nothing about the "curse" so...it could be the seed of something very eldritch

[dry sparrow]

hey does anyone have a full screenshot of the whole map like this but in english? need it for something. I need it to be an image not the interactive map that is online, prefferably with the bench icons showing as they do in this one

[lilac monolith]

the lady bites us open and implants the child in us, that's like the definition of eldritch

[lapis geode]

Damn

[dapper willow]

you can just screenshot the interactive map no?

[earnest acorn]

is this like a quest item or what?

[golden quarry]

no that's a thing you set up in your house im pretty sure

[wispy phoenix]

Does anyone have the dialogue dump for when you needolin next to void tendrils in act 3? (The void infused silk strands)

[maiden meteor]

kinda sad we don’t really have GMS’ point of view

in HK we at least know a reason why Radiance had crashout

but GMS’ story seems to have a lot of blanks

[molten spire]

So...Wtf kinda bug is Lace?

[maiden meteor]

bug not flea

[molten spire]

...LOL

[spark valve]

lace isn't a bug, she's made entirely of silk, but design wise probably based on a lacebug

[maiden meteor]

but actually I think Lace falls in Vessel category

ae not bug

[molten spire]

I see

I knew she was entirely silk, I just did not know what she was based off of

[molten spire]

I dunno if she would be a Vessel, but I get what you mean

[neat crest]

It's a thing ||you use for your Bellhome (it shows every material you've gathered)||

[wary plover]

Try the help channel

[wary plover]

Because we never got to find out what truly motivates her. In character writing if a character's motivation is not clear it difficult for audiences to understand them

[candid iris]

Yall tbh, I think if we ever get another HK game it’ll be about grimmchild

[elder nymph]

Ok, so. Update

How the hell did he make it

That door is still closed

[edgy barn]

Sherma deserves a lot more credit than he gets. He reached and survived the citadel on his own. He only needed to be rescued after he got into the whiteward.

[elder nymph]

He waited for the path to clear each time.

He never did anything proactively

[edgy barn]

You yourself posted a picture of him having progressed despite the door being closed.

He can find his own way

[sacred heath]

this is sherma slander

[elder nymph]

I don't think thats what happened here. Almost feels like I hit triggers that put him there

IF I get some dialogue about it, then we will know. I doubt there is any

[edgy barn]

Also, Sherma gets to the citadel spa before Hornet.

[elder nymph]

As it has been the same so far

Also, on the map. Show me Sherma's route to Songclave. Obviously this would be your opinion. But maybe there is one that makes sense. As far as we know. Sherma has his chime and his cymbal hat.

[edgy river]

Sherma goes through the Sinners road path and wasn't caught by phantom

He's stealthy

[bitter berry]

Why was verdania intentionally forgotten? Were the bugs of pharloom afraid of it?

[lapis geode]

...glad I didn't get spoiled and do this myself.
But brooo...
HOW THE VOID IS HEREE?!!!

[edgy barn]

Keep progressing

[lapis geode]

Ok

Holy shit

[smoky locust]

As Hornet muses, the Void might be everywhere if you go deep enough.

[white panther]

are the notes on organ the same as the ones we need to input to get the melody later?

[true vector]

u can solve the puzzle without it i think its just a reuused texture

[white panther]

yes ofc, but i wanted to know if this is connected to it

would be interesting to be the melody that she is playing

[true vector]

lore wise it doesnt make sense imo because thats the melody of the conductors which are basically the highest caste in pharloom basically the managers right

and phantom is like on the opposite end of that social ladder so why would she be concerned with it

[white panther]

and that is precisely why im curious

[true vector]

most likely thing is she turned to music as a way to quell her boredom while imprisoned in exhaust organ 🤓☝️

[white panther]

but i cant find any images of the puzzle to check

[true vector]

its the same alright no need to cross reference with the sprites

[white panther]

ooohhhh

ok so Phantom is actually playing the music of the architect

[terse warren]

"glad I didn't get spoiled" then why are you in the most spoilery channel of all

[crisp basalt]

Thats architect no?

The Puzzle Cilinders give you architect puzzle

[white panther]

errrrr yes

Archtect's melody

i wonder why

[crisp basalt]

TBF she is Old

She might have been there when it was composed

[quartz flicker]

It's flora were preserved in the Memoriam.

[neat sandal]

So one of prince volunteer become a mould for cogwork dancer as the trade of citadel leave their cave alone
they did. but the cave still die and no one reserve it.

[bitter berry]

Oh gotcha, so tldr one sacrificed themselves and the citadel didn't listen?

[neat sandal]

I think citadel did listen.
they leave their cave alone, no Memorium place for verdania

[bitter berry]

Ah, so the memorium is for places that the citadel raided?

[quartz flicker]

????? this is super wrong

[neat sandal]

yeah. like british museum

[quartz flicker]

Memoriam has the clovers, unique Verdania spikes, and one of the big lily pads.

[sacred heath]

question: does getting KO-ed by Shakra or First Sinner count as a permadeath in Steel Soul mode?

[green yoke]

I like that the memorium has a bunch of unique enemies where they clearly didn't know how to raise the things so they've grown over-large and corpulent. Very good subtle storytelling there

[crisp basalt]

The Let Memorium Verdania die cause it simply took too much space in there

That's why its fauna is dead there

Unlike the other biomes

[wispy phoenix]

Idk about shakra but first sinner death shouldn't count.

[limpid summit]

Shakra does not

You don’t lose rosaries upon a loss to shakra

[ripe lance]

so was the god tamer ||a skarr from pharloom||

...no shit

thats wrong

[plucky granite]

probably just a helmet

[dapper willow]

God tamer is probably a different kind of ant

[plucky granite]

yeah not from pharloom

[crisp basalt]

tbf just in this game we have a totally different type of Mantises

[ripe lance]

oh yeah the green prince

[plucky granite]

yall think zote comes from pharloom

based on the fact life ender is made of shell wood

[dapper willow]

Ehhh

[ripe lance]

nah

[dapper willow]

Who knows

[plucky granite]

i personally think he would have died like 5 times over just leaving pharloom

[ripe lance]

the skarr are ants right

[plucky granite]

he’s a vengefly king victim

[crisp basalt]

oh wait, this means at some point Hallownest had Lifeblood infection too