sk-lore

[winter iris]

I do not remember.

[drowsy mortar]

Also more on Wisp Thicket wtf is that area

[cosmic hedge]

Had a longer post written out and it seems an almost banal topic, but to tldr it; what IS up with the surface and why is it eternally dark?

I know in HK, it's not super clear what is or isn't on the actual surface of the world, but || Silksong outright states it for an area ||. Plus there's || the Land of Storms, which likely (if not necessarily) seems to be on the surface too, given the lightning ||.

[winter iris]

Perhaps I misrimembered.

[serene belfry]

cause the radiance isnt there

[winter iris]

Where does this come from?

[cosmic hedge]

Yeeeee, but I don't buy that lol. It seems too localized to the area around Hallownest of an entity

[serene belfry]

anyway theres been 2 interpretations to this (specifically family is forever linked part) one, the obvious is that its linked to their family cause of the vessels and void experiments. the other is that pale beings are naturally linked to the delicate flowers because perhaps they are of the same force or once used it against the void

[winter iris]

Weird to suddenly find wizards that can summon fire wisps.

[drowsy mortar]

Wizards whose whole religion I destroyed in 5 minutes lol

[winter iris]

It feels a bit out of place.

[winter iris]

The father of the flame did not feel much like a boss to me.

It had more "strong enemy" vibes for some reason.

[drowsy mortar]

It is definitely one of those areas that I just look at and think “oh yeah this was a late addition”

It’s a small af area with 2 enemy types and a boss with no actual map until you beat the boss, tell me I’m wrong

[serene belfry]

when does silksong state it i dont think we ever see a "surface" or sky ever

other than during the radiance which happens to be a dream

[thorny brook]

At the very top of the map

[serene belfry]

i hate that i cant get silk/soul from it even though lore wise it makes sense

[cosmic hedge]

There's literally the Surface memento, and the Surface the || Unnamed Village || is on

[edgy barn]

Yeah it does kind of have unfinished area vibes

[drowsy mortar]

That also has no story relevance and is entirely optional

[warped sky]

can someone explain why grand mother silk started the haunting. she was fine with pharloom for a while and i can't figure out what changed that

[elder nymph]

Late addition to a team who worked on it when they wanted to. In a word. What?

Silksong had no deadline. Late addition makes no sense for this game

[cosmic hedge]

I think that all comes down to her obsession of (creating someone like) Lace.

[drowsy mortar]

She wanted the kids back

[drowsy mortar]

Then why does it have like no reason to exist lol

[serene belfry]

oh true lmao just did that i thought it was just something like the desolate wastes, still underground just above the main "kingdom" of the area but idk

[elder nymph]

To you there isnt reason.

[drowsy mortar]

Father of the Flame isn’t even like guarding anything he just has a singular tool drop

Very underbaked area

[warped sky]

like, a bug ensnared by her silk would be a more "real" child than lace? yeah i can see where lace got her issues from if that's the case

[cosmic hedge]

Yeah, I figured so too at first, but the game is pretty clear about what it is

[elder nymph]

Its a transition area first of all. Didn't think this actually needs explaining. Fire guy holds a tool.

[serene belfry]

i think its a big deal that we never see any sort of celestial objects ever like clearly to the bugs it must be divine to them which is probably why entities like the pale king and radiance are worshipped (they are insanely bright lights in a world full of darkness its likely that real celestial objects don't exist in hollow knight)

and thinking about this i think this might be why the pale beings/radiance and the void are so opposed as well

[cosmic hedge]

It is interesting that the general Wastes are clearly lower than the surface. You can see the Wastes all the way down in a weavernest too, so yeah those are not the same thing, and it's not a matter of the Citadel peaking out above the surface.

[nova sluice]

I'm making a new Steel safe file to test random stuff, does anyone have anything in mind?
dying inside a memory counts as death for example, or even to FS

[cosmic hedge]

Yeah absolutely, light being as scarce (and with that easily sacred/spiritual) would follow from that

[edgy barn]

I think Hornet's dialogue when you try to leave through the surface kind of implies the opposite

[serene belfry]

if i' not mistaken the howling cliffs and the radiance statue are

all on the surface*

[edgy barn]

The endless wastes of the surface are the same wastes we heard of in the first game

[cosmic hedge]

I assumed so at first, but it's not textually stated afaik

[elder nymph]

Surface has a distinct look though

You don't really get waste surface vibes from Hallownest

[serene belfry]

true but little is

about the radiance idea a theory (and also why the radiance is regarded as a "true" divinity by those like godseeker) is that the radiance literally was the sun of the world and existed tangibly at first but now only exists in dreams as so many have forgotten to her (perhaps was even trapped in such a state intentionally), the world is now dark having literally forgotten the light

[serene belfry]

howling cliffs might be underground

[cosmic hedge]

If that's the case, wouldn't you run into Radiance worshipping culture literally everywhere?

[stoic heath]

I find it interesting that Hallownest is called “kingdom of the White Wyrm”. This also implies that Pharloom has known about Hallownest’s existence for sometime. Did they possibly once have trade or something? Speculation.

[cosmic hedge]

Pharloom doesn't have any hints towards it afaik anyway

[elder nymph]

What? The Radiance was basically GMS just with orange goo instead of threads

[serene belfry]

yea its just a half baked explanation for the lack of any sun and the eternal darkness of the areas we are in

the other possibility is that the "surface" we see is actually not the surface just a waste that happens to be the surface of/above pharloom but still underground

otherwise there just is none

[elder nymph]

If there isn't any sun what is casting down the light we see all over Pharloom?

[stoic heath]

Silk?

Crystals or something

[elder nymph]

That would be tangible and not look like light

[cosmic hedge]

Oh, yeah dang I think you're right

[elder nymph]

I swear to god people did not watch the opening cutscnene

Of course it's rhe same wastes

They took a carriage

[serene belfry]

there's plenty of luminescent shit in both games tbf even hallownest was lit despite the games confirming the whole thing is underground otherwise idk but them not showing or mentioning the existence of the sun or any celestial objects seem deliberate

[stoic heath]

So how did the Citadel bugs know where Hallownest was?

[cosmic hedge]

But that's still odd though? Like, Mount Fay is still way lower than the Surface the village is on

[serene belfry]

one must wonder where the snow comes from lmao

[elder nymph]

How did any outsider find anywhere. I think the world is more connected than we realize

Shakra isnt from Hallownest or Pharloom

[stoic heath]

There’s a secret map to lands beyond Pharloom in the Far Fields Weavernest, maybe the Citadel used the same methods to find it

[cosmic hedge]

And the wastes are also waaaay deep down in Weavenest Cindril

So it still makes me think the wastes travelled on are subterranean

[elder nymph]

Society was more or less normal before GMS lost her shit I'd imagine

It was

"Crossed the caves"

[cosmic hedge]

Not the surface o:

Yeah that pretty much confirms that ig

[elder nymph]

Diary has lots of lore bits

[stoic heath]

Pale King was more competent than we knew he established working sewers instead of polluting entire areas

[elder nymph]

Pale King hurt his subjects just by.bring seen

[serene belfry]

real lmao pharloom was better in the metal department by a bit tho

[cosmic hedge]

Tbf that could have been within Hallownest, Pharloom, or passing through other areas

But exclusively naming caves seems to preclude the surface yeah

[elder nymph]

Kinda shocked Pale Oil is used for nail sharpening. No smithing to be done, just polish that nail

[stoic heath]

Glad the Pale Oil is more streamlined and you don’t have to collect 6 of them

[serene belfry]

doubt it it looks desolate and sandy and the next shot shows them enetering pharloom so most likely them crossing the caves/wastes

[elder nymph]

Yeah. The delivery was the worst one and it wasn't that bad

[cosmic hedge]

Yeah no, I think you're right too

[edgy river]

Grimm troupe seems to have a map of at least some of the outside.

The weavers found Hallownest, or the place it would become much earlier than the Citadel bugs. And Herah seemed to be worried about they finding hornet which implies she knew it wasn't that safe

[stoic heath]

A lot more things are Pale in this game maybe it’s a more common attribute than we thought

[edgy river]

Is it confirmed why the bugs of Pharloom have higher thought?

Is because of any pale being? Or they just have

[stoic heath]

The old gods?

[elder nymph]

I think one mystery left open is what other bugs have the citadel grunts gone after? Hornet isn't the only one

[serene belfry]

where is that said again

[elder nymph]

GMS wanted Hornets silk pretty damm badly

[edgy barn]

There are plenty of bugs in Hallownest that didn't get higher though from the pale king

[serene belfry]

weavers it seems only

[elder nymph]

Then why gush about Hornet? She isn't full weaver. I guess her silk is that good

[edgy barn]

She is half-wyrm

[stoic heath]

Pale King was pretty respectful to other realms of Hallownest compared to GMS

[edgy barn]

That probably makes her silk prime real estate

[serene belfry]

if you note the tablets in the cradle all captured weavers previously were either quarter or eightve weaver only

hornet is the closest thing they've found so far and like said above shes also half wyrm which makes her pretty special

[stoic heath]

I’m thinking the Crest stealing/morphing ability is a Wyrm thing

Maybe that’s what allowed the Pale King to rebirth from the Cast off Shell?

[serene belfry]

also more importantly bro didnt have a fucking gulag and bros whole society wasn't basically omelas running off of workers in extremely poor conditions and dudes running on treadmills

ty pale king for having geo literally everywhere

[stoic heath]

Underworks is horrible, the benches are expensive asf for the money the workers drop

[elder nymph]

Geo only matters in Hallownest as far as we know. I wonder what the exchange rate from Geo to Rosary is

[stoic heath]

The kingdoms aren’t shown to have any trade so idk

[elder nymph]

Hallownest and Pharloom are different countries basically. With little to no interaction to speak of

[edgy river]

What about cases like quirrel losing his memories? The wastes beyond kingdoms does seem to affect bugs in some way

Hornet is partly wyrm and part weaver, which seemed to be fine. The Citadel bugs were haunted so it's safe to assume they were just being commanded by Silk anyway, but other than that, even in the Surface you go in this game the bugs seem less developed and just following intincts

[elder nymph]

Who knows how many countries make up that world

[deep idol]

I mean, if we consider Lemm and Scrounge to have fair prices, we can compare how much the Arcane Egg is worth

[stoic heath]

600 rosaries for egg

2 geo = 1 rosary

[edgy river]

Arcane eggs are more common in Hallownest probably tho

[deep idol]

True, but that is our only possible direct comparison afaik

[elder nymph]

Does the world of Hollow Knight have a name?

Hallownest and Pharloom are on the planet ?

[thorny brook]

bug town (I have no idea)

[deep idol]

Oh, also, who is the bug in the village on the surface supposed to be?

[serene belfry]

do we know that was because of him travelling into the wastes or is it because hes also just old af lore wise

[stoic heath]

The Abyss seems to be close to the core of the planet these bugs live in, Hornet says she always finds Creepers anywhere if she goes down far enough

[nova sluice]

They are cities/kingdoms very far away, that's all we know

[elder nymph]

All signs point to unique world

[wary plover]

Nooo hornet ruined everything with a weird trap and sherma became an archbishop

[edgy river]

Probably geo has shit value if we consider divines prices (it's probably mostly gameplay purposed tho)

[elder nymph]

Sherma is such an annoyance. Let her die

[nova sluice]

Sherma is probably the highest religious figure at the end

[nova sluice]

You deserve 2hrs of League of Legends for saying this!

[thorny brook]

I hope you know what you’ve done to yourself

[elder nymph]

Buy me a PC.

[stoic heath]

Sherma becomes new ruler post true ending. Team Cherry told me.

[stoic heath]

him

[elder nymph]

You play as Shakra to kill Sherma

[elder nymph]

I've heard both.

[covert tusk]

SHERMA CAN FIX THE CITADEL HES THE POPE NOW LET HIM BE

[stoic heath]

He’s canonically a him

[elder nymph]

Also, it's a videogame character

[covert tusk]

And you’re a name and profile on my phone so how do you do miss

[elfin vapor]

i believe hornet is from hollow knight

[edgy river]

Btw, how close to core was Silk in the true ending. I honestly thought we would be ending the planet core there

But it seems it was like a cage made from silk by Silk herself?

[thorny brook]

Not possible

[elfin vapor]

im certain bro

[nova sluice]

Sherma is he and BellBeast is she
Kinda funny how many got those the other way around

[edgy river]

No she is actually from Hungry Knight I'm pretty sure. It's the secret final boss if you microwave your PC while playing at 2AM

[elder nymph]

I'm a person using an avatar. There is a difference.

I cam understand the confusion though. People are pretty stupid nowadays

[serene belfry]

its just a video game so imo every character in hollow knight is actually a dinosaur

[nova sluice]

Do we have ANY examples of someone who actually got absolution?

[serene belfry]

sherma is easy to confuse i think most people thought he was a girl until they read the wish

[edgy river]

People will literally argue about anything to not use the correct pronouns huh

[nova sluice]

I suppose all the tablets are about getting it Denied

[edgy barn]

There are several tables about prisoners that got absolution through death

[serene belfry]

no there were 2 that said it was accepted

[nova sluice]

Ye ye, for sure!! I just find it funny

[serene belfry]

yea^

[elder nymph]

Best fight for your fictional characters than anything important you right

[edgy river]

Yeah maybe if they got absolved they wouldnt want a tablet specifying what they did

[nova sluice]

Oh nice, do you remember anything about it?

[elder nymph]

Phantom is the best new character. They stole the show imo

[serene belfry]

i believe it was this

[nova sluice]

TROoOoooOBBIO tho

[stoic heath]

I want more Phantom lore what is their deal

[serene belfry]

in total there are 4 tablets including the one about first sinner so they could all be referring to the ones captured

[elder nymph]

He just a half rate Grimm and you know it

[nova sluice]

Thats....nice...

[serene belfry]

denied 1 being widow (the one who got put to the stake), the other 2 died which is why we didnt see them and the second denied being first sinner

[elder nymph]

Grimm gives you animal friend. Trobbio gives you a mirror. Twice. That I never used

[edgy river]

From what I could gather playing, they were silks child before lace, but got old and stopped following her every command so they were banished?

[serene belfry]

isnt lace like eternally young or smth

[edgy river]

Or maybe they weren't banished and just left

[serene belfry]

could be wrong but phantom is also described to be deformed and basically a fuckup

i do wonder why she is in the exhaust organ tho

[stoic heath]

It says Phantom is tasked with expelling the “choking refuse” of Pharloom

[edgy river]

I loved to use mirror + faster heal + double heal for 2 hits of explosions. Fun build

[elder nymph]

Phantom was preem until the silk stuff. They wanted death vs withering away

[serene belfry]

lmao when i saw this in the credits

[elder nymph]

That means nothing to me.

[thorny brook]

I’m trying that, thank you

[serene belfry]

love him bigger memelord than zote

[edgy river]

Is phantom a she?

[serene belfry]

yea

sister to lace i believe

[edgy river]

Idk if the mirror scales with nail so idk how much dmg it realistically does late game but mid game it was fun and decent

[elder nymph]

They

[thorny brook]

I’d assume it scales with the tool damage upgrades, but I wouldn’t know either

[elder nymph]

Phantom is a They

[edgy river]

Idk if tool dmg scales blue/yellow tools as well, no clue. Hope so

[nova sluice]

It's really cool that Phantom plays piano without the mask but puts it in to fight us

[serene belfry]

I never found it worth using over long nail venom tools and either fast bind or protective bind

[stoic heath]

What the hell is “choking refuse”

[elder nymph]

Google it

[edgy river]

Not used much venom, just like for 2 hours max

[serene belfry]

Refuse as a noun means worthless stuff /rubbish basically

[edgy river]

Used long nail most of the time but i got it late

[elder nymph]

Phantom was the garbage bug

Basically

[serene belfry]

the choking part idk most likely has to do with how polluted the air is around bilewater

[edgy river]

Was he doing the mist?

They*

[elder nymph]

Its built up so much

Kinda like clogged

[elder nymph]

Yes, afaik

[stoic heath]

I think it’s implied the Mist was created by Phantom? The Mist theme and Phantom theme share a leitmotif

[elder nymph]

When Phantom is defeated the mist goes away

[stoic heath]

And the Exhaust Organ stops working

[nova sluice]

Doesn't the mist go away as soon as you find the exit?

[elder nymph]

Makes for a terrible travel point.

Exhaust Organ aka Anus

[serene belfry]

lace calls them sister idk what's up with that in the needolin mirror dialogue

[elder nymph]

I go by diary entry

You can feel a sisterhood to a they

[edgy river]

Probably hornet uses they in the journal because she doesn't know it yet them

[stoic heath]

Is the void civilization who wrote the lore tablets in the Silksong Abyss the same void civilization in Hollow Knight

[elder nymph]

Journal happens after you beat it. Also, it's a silk being. So it's technically genderless

[stoic heath]

I interpreted that was Phantom talking?

[stoic heath]

So this means Lace is trans

[elder nymph]

Hornet is the only one ever referred to as the gendered one

[edgy river]

Gendered between the pale kings children, no?

Because sibling are genderless

[elder nymph]

Thats my guess

[stoic heath]

So are all Weavers female?

[elder nymph]

Because she's half wyrm and weaver

[edgy river]

So lace doesn't enter that. She can legally have gender and not break lore

[elder nymph]

She is a girl. She even comments on past lovers and how she outlived them all. She never had children though, and spurs at the idea currently

[thorny brook]

I highly doubt it

[elder nymph]

Makes their life spans curious

[elder nymph]

Now, IMO, Lace is how SHE is because GMS wanted a real boy. Pinocchio style. GMS planned on using Hornets silk to make her truly alive.

[edgy river]

Can you lock yourself out of full journal if you slay phantom without getting the entry for the mists ghosts?

[elder nymph]

I do not know

[uncut holly]

Something interesting from the original Hollow Knight is that in the first tutorial area, as your walking through the kingdoms front door you see a lore tablet, that tells you basically "Welcome to the last and only kingdom, made by king and creator, obey our laws past this point"

If there are other kingdoms there probably arent many

[elder nymph]

There are some missable things

[stoic heath]

BTW the mushrooms said Herrah was a common bug and now it’s suddenly revealed she’s a weaver?

[uncut holly]

We only really know of 3

[edgy river]

I do not trust pale kings judgement

[elder nymph]

Pale King wanted to be worshipped. It could be propaganda

[edgy river]

For all we know that's something he says to appear special for his followers

[uncut holly]

The citizens could have just been told theres nothing else, or things are riduclously far away and scarce which i find a bit more likely

[ancient scroll]

common bug = not worth being his mate = not a pale being

[stoic heath]

Anyone notice that when you interact with the Mr Mushroom lore tablet in Pale Lake it plays the Hollow Knight lore tablet voice sound effect?

[uncut holly]

We know that there is the Godseekers Home, Hallownest, Pharloom, and the City of Steel

[elder nymph]

But it's at the entrance to the kingdom

[edgy river]

Also that was written with the assumption it would be eventually true because Hallownest was supposed to be eternal

[ancient scroll]

even if she is a weaver with great power in comparison to normal bugs, that does not make her his equal

[uncut holly]

I dunno, its talking to outsiders, my assumption would be there are other civilizations but not many and they are all ridiculously far away from each o ther

[edgy barn]

Herrah is also referred as a common beast in relation to her deceased mate though

Not just the pale king

[elder nymph]

The Pale Kings equal? I'd argue she was around when he was. I doubt they had any reason to interact

[uncut holly]

We know the Godseekers detected the Pale Kings power, and traveled to the Kingdom through dreams. And that when they arrived by the time they arrived the king was dead

Which also goes to show how powerful the king was

[solid elk]

The world seems incredibly inhospitable outside of the Kingdoms, going off of what we see from Hornet being taken across several lands before Pharloom

[ancient scroll]

the king of deepnest might be more than we know making herrah common in comparison, but we don't know much about him

[nova sluice]

Do we know why the godseeker decided to stay on that trash pile?

[stoic heath]

We got no Deepnest King lore sadly

[solid elk]

A meta-commentaty on how TC views religion, possibly

[edgy barn]

I don't think the location of their physical body is actually important to them

[uncut holly]

It seems that Grand Mother Silk is a giant entity of Soul. All Higher Beings are different its more of a status you get for being godlike, but Grand Mother Silk seems to have been able to be felled but they have such a large reserve of Soul that its practically impossible, so the only way it could be done was Binding them, which is a silk thing that basically is absorption, or sending them into the Void Sea

[serene belfry]

the tablets about hallownest in the first game are mostly the pale king's propaganda for him to have more subjects

[uncut holly]

Even when Grandma Silk was stuck in the Void Sea they lasted a long time just off of their Soul reserve alone

[serene belfry]

but the space inbetween kingdoms seems to indeed be incredibly difficult to live in

[solid elk]

Or have a wood parasite that eats it. Potentially other parasites could do it to a weakned GMS as well

[serene belfry]

she was spamming silk cocoon

[uncut holly]

I beleieve Greyroot is special, I dont think your average parasite would be able to do that. Or that parasites that can do exactly what they do exist

[edgy river]

Wasn't they locked up

[elder nymph]

Nah, surface is where it's at

[edgy barn]

I don't think the parasite would have been able to consume GMS under normal conditions

[edgy river]

She build a silk prison to keep void out

[edgy barn]

It can do it because its current host is someone that can bind GMS

[lapis geode]

I think Greyroot is an amalgamation of some
waste of silk's soul or something that takes form of root.

Cause that thing ain't normal

[uncut holly]

I personally think that Greyroot is a Higher Being, but even if they arent then there probably are very few beings like Greyroot.

Greyroot is related to the White Lady they are the same type of creature

[solid elk]

It may be special, but Roots in general seem special as 100% of them that we have seen are special

[terse stump]

So one thing I don't get
Is grandma silk the evil mastermind behind all this? Or is she being used by others to keep the citadel functioning

[uncut holly]

Greyroot isnt related to the silk at all, infact their the only NPC in game you cant read the mind of

[stoic heath]

I remember mossbag theorized that the HK lore tablet voice is the Pale King but we hear the same voice when interacting with the Mr Mushroom lore tablet in Pale Lake

[lapis geode]

Hmm.. that might just make it more gruesome.

[edgy river]

Is it specified why hornet can remove the void corruption from gamond and lace?

I assumed she uses the everbloom but that is not even close to be shown

[thorny brook]

I still question whether it’s “grandmother” or “grand” mother

[nova sluice]

Oh, that's a very nice line of thought
But still the dream is dreamt by that bug so he can't really put himself into danger like that...right?

[edgy barn]

That's assuming Greyroot even is the same type of being the White lady is.

[edgy river]

And idk if u can fight garmond before getting the flower

[terse warren]

Pretty sure she is quite literally beating it out of them

[uncut holly]

You cant remove Garmonds corruption, what happened to Garmond is that he got struck by a Threat and the Void hollowed him out

[solid elk]

A Root, yes

[uncut holly]

The reason why Lace is voided is because Lace is made of Silk, and Silk is Soul

Normally Void doesnt corrupt people it just hollows them out and kills them

[edgy barn]

Greyroot is a parasite, the White Lady has never been hinted to be one.

[neat plank]

||is gm silk ending the true ending||

[solid elk]

Some bugs are parasites, some are not. Some roots are parasites, some are not.

[edgy river]

That doesn't make sense for me personally but ok

[uncut holly]

Sadly Garmond is dead even after the fight he is hollowed out

[stoic heath]

Is Isma like Greyroot and the White Lady?

[uncut holly]

He gets a moment of sanity then dies

[edgy river]

She beats out a lot of void bugs and this doesn't happen, maybe it's different of they were hit by the silk void thing?

[terse warren]

Isma is like Nyleth

[lapis geode]

Well, not all plant is parasite.
Same for insects

[solid elk]

Garmond being corrupted specifically feels weird, considering how many people out in the boonies there are which had no defense against the void

[solid elk]

I literally said this

[uncut holly]

Garmond didnt get corrupted by Void, he got corrupted by Silk

The Void is just because Grandma silk is in the void

[solid elk]

Isma is a plant? Like, she was never a bug?

[elder nymph]

Garmond was able to resist until Act 3. The void wasn't the void anymore. It now had silk thread extensions

[solid elk]

Nyleth is overtly not a bug

[uncut holly]

Void doesnt corrupt people, it just was eatting Grandma Silk and therefore ate all the people she was attached to

[elder nymph]

He could resist GMS. He could not resist GMS + ABYSS

[terse warren]

They clearly look similar and do similar things so

[cinder berry]

Wth is loam? I got to act 3 before finding him, so he's dead now

[uncut holly]

We dont know that Garmond could resist GMS, he probably couldnt

[edgy river]

Would make more sense for me to, yk, use the everbloom in them but ok hornet you're the expert

[terse warren]

While I do think Greyroot and White Lady are related somehow, I do think it's important to note how different they behave

[uncut holly]

He just got hit by a silk threat later

[solid elk]

Isma seems to have an actual bug body within the plant matter, from what we see. I assume she was a bug at one point. Idk how she plant stuff happened though.

[cinder berry]

Is he a kind of Trever Henderson creature? He's about 6 years too late

[uncut holly]

We know that Shakra couldnt, seemingly the only people who are immune to GMS threads are beings of immense power, or Weavers

[terse warren]

Maybe she was a plant who could move. It's not impossible

[solid elk]

Greyroot and White Lady don't need to be any more related than being closer to one another than they are to bugs. It's like saying a spider is closer to a cephalopod than a human, which is true, but still practically unrelated

[terse warren]

Garmond and Shakra are both outsiders who don't have Silk in their DNA, which means GMS cannot control them

[uncut holly]

Its likely though that Nyleth isnt a Higher Being, as its likely the Citadel killed them. They where stopping the Stick Bugs from eatting people, when they died they started eatting people.

[uncut holly]

Do we know thats how that works? we can make them sing and see into their minds via the Silk

[thorny harness]

i got all endings execpt the cursed one

[uncut holly]

Also Shakra is a tribe on the outskirts of the Kingdom

[edgy barn]

Garmond's entire bakcstory is that his village fell to the Haunting and now he wants to stop its source

[terse warren]

We do because Hornet says that to control them the Silk is seeking itself

[uncut holly]

Yeah im pretty they arent immune, the only person we meet that I think would be directly immune, would maybe be the former rulers of the Civilizations and Greyroot

[terse warren]

Oh damn? Mb

Guess that's why Garmond gets hit by it in act 3 but not Shakra

[terse warren]

Is it specified it's from the outskirts?

[uncut holly]

And Eva

I believe so

But i think i got it from a team cherry quote before Silksong

[edgy river]

Then, 2?

How are we counting endings?

[uncut holly]

Oh and Plasmium guy is probably immune to the Silk once he became a Source of Plasmium

[edgy river]

From what ik there are 3 counting the cursed one (I may be wrong)

[terse warren]

When the game rolls credits.

There are 4 total

[uncut holly]

Idk actually can you read his thoughts?

[terse warren]

Why would he be

[uncut holly]

True he might not be

[edgy river]

So we are counting Act II end on true ending

[terse warren]

Yes

[edgy river]

Ok, makes sense

[uncut holly]

We cant read Greyroots thoughts so they are very likely immune to it

[terse warren]

Technically 4 1/2 because Mr mushroom post credit

[terse warren]

She might also just not have thoughts

[uncut holly]

I mean she needs to have thoughts shes alive

[terse warren]

She is a parasite

[uncut holly]

The whole hollow argument, is anything really hollow

Unless Greyroot is hollow

[edgy river]

Wait are we really reading thoughts?

[terse warren]

The hollow argument is about the void and it's not limited exclusively to thoughts

[edgy river]

I played the whole game thinking people would just sing when I played violin

[uncut holly]

I think Greyroot is just too powerful for you to read their thoughts, doesnt mean their a Higher Being as higher being is being on a certain power level but I think their powerful enough for that

[terse warren]

It's possible Greyroot and her species rely entirely on instinct

[uncut holly]

We are, you dont hear them singing you see the silk bubble and read their thoughts

[foggy fractal]

🐺 Is Mr GOAT Shroom not allowed his own ending ?

[serene belfry]

we can read the thoughts of beings like the radiance at least in hk tho tbf but different dream tech as well

[uncut holly]

Well her species would be related to White Lady, and we can dream nail white lady

[terse warren]

Only when Andy gets his own ending

[uncut holly]

So its probably she just doesnt want us to see them

[terse warren]

Not necessarily close connection

[uncut holly]

I mean White Lady is presumeably on a higher status than Greyroot, and Greyroot also speaks and it wouldnt make sense for them to not have thoughts

[edgy river]

I was like "every bug here loves to sing about their feelings, musical ahh game"

[uncut holly]

If somethings alive it thinks, otherwise its hollow in the hollow knight universe

And it would be weird if Greyroot where hollow

[foggy fractal]

so my ending would be 1/2 which with mr mushroom's 1/2 would create one whole ending ? 🤔

[uncut holly]

I think its more likely Greyroot is keeping you out of their mind

They are trying to deceive you after all

[elder nymph]

I don't think thats how that works

[uncut holly]

I mean Grey Root is definitely stronger than most things we see in game, and I believe they are a higher being possibly below Unn level.

[elder nymph]

By all accounts the bugs are singing when you play

[uncut holly]

Maybe more than Unn its kind of hard to gauge

[oak falcon]

What's better silksong or hollow knight

[elder nymph]

Every bug sings when you play

[uncut holly]

They arent singing you can read the thoughts of bugs that cant speak

[elder nymph]

You don't read their mind

[uncut holly]

You can play the music for enemies

You are reading their thoughts, infact its involuntary

[elder nymph]

They all look upward and start gyrating

[uncut holly]

If you play the needolin for a enemy a thread of silk will come down and hit them in the head coming from GMS location depending on where you are in the world

[elder nymph]

They also snap out of it after a bit

[uncut holly]

You can then see in the silk text bubble their thoughts

The silk text is used to convery memory and thought

[elder nymph]

Never noticed a thread coming down I guess

[neat plank]

why gm silk wanted hornet and how they capture her 😢

[elder nymph]

Special silk and numbers

I keep posting it but it does explain it lol

[nova sluice]

I don't think we know the details of Hornet's capture tho

[elder nymph]

We do

[vital ruin]

Does the knight control all of the void?

[elder nymph]

Obviously no

[uncut holly]

We do actually know a lil about the capture, there is a scroll on one of the fallen chior and we can bring it to the relic seeker to read it

[nova sluice]

We know that the little jail is especial but not much about how it was done

[elder nymph]

Numbers

She was overwhelmed.

[uncut holly]

Its an arrest warrant for Hornet at the "Kingdom of the White Wyrm", it says that they are likely to resist and to use a binding cage on them

[neat plank]

wow thanks bro

[elder nymph]

That too

[uncut holly]

Hornet also mentions at one point there where way more Chior who came after them and she killed many

[elder nymph]

I mean, that is the basics of it

[uncut holly]

She mentioned how she thought they where highly tactical but now she sees they are puppets

[elder nymph]

Jeep

I posted that not a minute ago

[uncut holly]

Well i wasnt here

[elder nymph]

I dont recall seeing others besides envoys tho

[nova sluice]

Ye I mean, aside the jail itself and the many that came before. We don't know how they ultimately did it

[uncut holly]

I am talking about a separate quote from Hornet in game

[elder nymph]

Bruh you right there

[uncut holly]

Beginning of the game quote

[nova sluice]

Like somehow catching her offguard or sleeping or even tired after fighting 100 bugs

[elder nymph]

Or just 100 bugs jumping on her at once.

We already know her abilities fail when being hit lol

[nova sluice]

I blame her diagonal pogo

[elder nymph]

Love that pogo

[nova sluice]

If she had a normal pogo she would have never been captured

[elder nymph]

Supposed to teach you to hunt and be offensive

[nova sluice]

My purple cogflies can hunt for me

[elder nymph]

I bet you a majority of players went Wanderer and never switched

[serene belfry]

ofc i did

[weak sail]

Guys what gender is Shawerma

sherma*

[serene belfry]

quick slash go crazy

[serene belfry]

SHAW is male

[elder nymph]

He according to game

[weak sail]

Tysm

[thorny harness]

he is a young boy somehow

[weak sail]

[nova sluice]

I'm running Steel 100%
I embrace all forms of cheese

[somber pendant]

Act 3 Spoilers ||Did anyone else not like the devastation on the different towns that starting Act 3 did? I’m not saying it didn’t make sense, but honestly seeing how I got like 70% of people killed it makes me feel like just ascending to be the new god of the place would have been a better outcome.||

[serene belfry]

wasnt even hornet's fault she got deceived

[nova sluice]

Architect with Purple Boomerang, Cogflies and Taks. This is the way

[tiny socket]

Is it clear if greyroot becomes the crest or just dies during the infection process?

[elder nymph]

Spoilers aren't needed here

[nova sluice]

"You knew about our nature and wiliness to use the void"

• The snails trying to gaslight Hornet

[elder nymph]

Beast, brew, flint. You can dive through enemies safely.

[steady prawn]

i really like how you can see the effects of industrial waste from the building of the citadel by the right side of the map all being dead land that was once lively

[tiny socket]

Said snails who previously didn’t show their faces

[nova sluice]

Too risky for a 20hrs save file
Murder drones go go go

[elder nymph]

Heck snails

[serene belfry]

...Kill..."
"...Shall blaze free..."
"...This Vessel, broken... fails..."
"...Dawn...Shall break..."
"...No mind, the usurper... Only strength..."
"...Kill the usurper... Our light it would suffocate..."
"...ANCIENT ENEMY..."
"...I DO NOT FEAR YOU..."
"...LET ME BE FREE..."
"...I WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN..."
"...DAWN WILL BREAK..."
"...THE LIGHT CANNOT BE CONSUMED..."
"...KILL IT..."
"...DANGEROUS..."
"...LIGHT..."
"...KILL IT... DANGEROUS... KILL IT... KILL THE EMPTY ONE..."

ever wonder if hornet evoked this type of fear in anyone

[steady prawn]

it also means you can probably place where cut areas like barnacle village where

[serene belfry]

so real

[steady prawn]

it was near the middle right probably connected to verdania

judging by how grey they area was

[elder nymph]

You make a good point. Architect with Quick Sling

[elder nymph]

2 traps for 1 and 3 different traps

The drill weapon is pretty ass though

[serene belfry]

i love them cogflies

shreds

[nova sluice]

Drill is amazing on Nyleth and that's it.
And the burning boss that I forgot the name

[elder nymph]

Poison them and you can kill any boss with traps only afaik

[tiny socket]

Father of the flame

[nova sluice]

Yes!! Thanks

[tiny socket]

I hated that boss

[serene belfry]

i spammed drones for nyleth i hated her so much

[nova sluice]

Drills can 100-0 that thing in seconds

[tiny socket]

Can you hit it without destroying the lanterns first?

[fair thistle]

Best character in the game btw

His singing opened that door idc what you say

[elder nymph]

Whispfire Lantern and Egg of Flealia should cancel the Whispfire cost right? Lol jk

[serene belfry]

the humble ZANZIBOOOOOOOOM:

[nova sluice]

No no, but using the vertical drill on the lamps and the red drill on the center makes the fight last for 3 seconds

[elder nymph]

Not even close

[tiny socket]

Garmond is my goat

[fair thistle]

I cant wait for the inevitable “silksong vocalized” mod solely bc i wanna see how they handle garmond

[elder nymph]

Best character is easily Shakra. Good luck finding your way otherwise.

[nova sluice]

I see a lot of Radiant potential on most SS bosses

[fair zealot]

most

[fair thistle]

Shakra and hornet are lesbians and bell beast is their weird dog

This is canon bc i said so

[elder nymph]

Question

[serene belfry]

most applies to base hk too ngl

fucking oblobbles

[elder nymph]

Dream Nail in Hallow Knight. Was that dlc?

[nova sluice]

Shakira is amazing and pretty fun to train hitless, second only to dancers

[fair thistle]

I mean

Its required for true ending so you tell me

[fair zealot]

shakra fight kinda boring imo

[elder nymph]

Smart ass, I didnt love it like you did

[fair zealot]

she has two attacks

wait three

[foggy fractal]

no

[elder nymph]

Shakra fights in a lame way

[nova sluice]

For now Shakira is one of the few bosses I can actually repeat and train for hitless so...I ended up really liking it

[elder nymph]

I played HK Voidheart edition. It was everything all at once. I did not play anything before or watch anything

[nova sluice]

I'm just waiting for || Radiant Void Sherma || on the next update

[elder nymph]

Crazy I know.

[tiny socket]

I can’t believe zote didn’t follow hornet across the wastes

A knight of great renown is exactly what farloom needs

[elder nymph]

Pharloom doesnt need that hack

ACTUALLY

That would be hilarious. Zote goes to Pharloom because of his great renown. GMS doesnt bother with him

"Of course I would keep my mind. Don't you know who I am?"

[tiny socket]

Zote isn’t productive enough to get hired in the citadel

[elder nymph]

Ok learned a thing

[modest coyote]

I AGREE

I mean it makes sense lore wise

But what compelled me throughout act 3 was the desire to fix what I had started

[nova sluice]

They kiss while you sleep

[modest coyote]

I felt super duper bad having basically caused the apocalypse

And all the bugs are so kind about it too none of them attacks you for having a part in it

[elder nymph]

Better to bring about the end than eternal suffering

[modest coyote]

No?

[elder nymph]

Can't believe people would welcome slavery. Not even. You are a puppet. You have no thought and go through the motions

[nova sluice]

It's actually pretty cool that Hornet isn't constantly apologetic, she is actively working to fix everything and is telling this to everyone who asks

[modest coyote]

Yeah I really liked hornet having character

[elder nymph]

That will be a hot take soon

[tiny socket]

Crawfather

[modest coyote]

I didn’t really understand most of the lore my playthrough but I understood hornet’s character

[jovial trail]

Also idk if most people know this but some bugs from bone bottom are still alive on the first flea spot

[modest coyote]

Yeah u do a delivery to them that’s how I found out

I thought the fixer was dead

[jovial trail]

Flick wasn’t dead that was so awesome

[modest coyote]

I was so relieved he was alive

[nova sluice]

Crawfather is one of the few that actually had an honest beef with Hornet

[modest coyote]

I thought flick and everyone else in bomebottom had died and all those theif bugs were basically looting their corpses

Well some of them did die but flick survives

[jovial trail]

I got so mad at those thieves, what assholes

[modest coyote]

I really love bellheart tho

[nova sluice]

From all the bugs my only worry was Seth

[modest coyote]

It is a very lovely environment much more cosy then bonenottom or the equivalent in hollowknight

[wary plover]

If the snail shamans are evil, why did they help us in act 3? They even died for it....

[jovial trail]

I kinda wish we get a DLC for an act 4 and we get to see everyone prospering

[tiny socket]

They’re morally grey

[modest coyote]

They’re not intentionally evil they’re more like heroin addicts

[wary plover]

Is that another heart in act 3?

[jovial trail]

I think they didn’t plan for the apocalypse to happen

[modest coyote]

I meant the bell area I forgot the name

Bell cove or smth

[wary plover]

Ohh bell hollow I think

[modest coyote]

Bell end

[tiny socket]

Bellhart?

[modest coyote]

Yeah bell heart

[wary plover]

They all sound familiar

[modest coyote]

I love bell heart it’s such a cozy environment

Also love that it’s in the centre of the map

[jovial trail]

True and the bellhome is awesome

[wary plover]

I went there a total of 5 times only once was I not sick, cursed, planning to lay a trap, or entangled in silk

[modest coyote]

Why it’s the best

[tiny socket]

You get to have a lil spa

[modest coyote]

It’s so useless tho with Eva

[tiny socket]

10/10 would wait another 7 years

[modest coyote]

True

[nova sluice]

They had a debate amongst themselves to talk about this possible sacrifice and they ended up deciding to do it anyway, pretty cool imo

[modest coyote]

Can’t wait for dlc tho I can’t wait for the cool bosses

Imagine the “green princes” or “verdant princes” fight

Or “awoken GMS”

[nova sluice]

And I don't see them as evil, more like crazy academics that are willing to embrace any opportunity to test the use of Void

[wary plover]

That's exactly why I was confused because they didn't know if they should but they went through with it anyway

[jovial trail]

They better give us a godhome equivalent the bosses are all so awesome I want to refight them!

[tiny socket]

Maybe the good snail shaman was the guy who foolishly visited bilewater

[modest coyote]

There’s a lot of complaints I’ve seen to some bosses but I think on average the bosses are more interesting for sure

People forget most of the dream bosses were a bit overly simplistic

[jovial trail]

I think they just wanted GMS dead and didn’t expect the void to go crazy with the silk

[wary plover]

Maybe the good snail shaman was the friends we made along the way

[modest coyote]

I think despite all the impossible expectation Silksong really has lived up

I still have a few issues- the game is by no means perfect but nothing is

[nova sluice]

After you get the Shaman crest I remember a dialogue about you being a thief but something about being reasonable due to the situation

I need to check that again

[jovial trail]

Bilewater is my main complaint

[tiny socket]

Bring my boy garmond back😭

[modest coyote]

I think it could be very improved by adding like 2 more benches

[tiny socket]

Burnout is a killer

[jovial trail]

TRUE why does lost lace get to live but lost gamond dies smh

[tiny socket]

It would be nice if pure wreath was in sinners road instead of putrified ducts

[modest coyote]

All TC needs to do is add a dream gate equivalent

[green yoke]

The most important thing for me: it FEELS like a Hollow Knight game. In atmosphere and gameplay, I could not say I felt like it betrayed my hopes in any way

[modest coyote]

Dream gate wasn’t in base HK

[pure zodiac]

same shit lowkey

[modest coyote]

They added it cause people were complaining about run backs lol

[jovial trail]

I thought the beastling calling song was the equivalent

[modest coyote]

You only get that in act 3

By act 3 you’ve already beaten bilewayer there is no reason to really return

[pure zodiac]

unlike dream gate which you could straight up not get at all

[green yoke]

Middle ground, put it in Bilewater by the secret bench. Not so easy that it invalidates the maggots entirely, but not so far that Groal is likely done beforehand

[serene belfry]

defo its so peak

[modest coyote]

I do think universal fast travel is a brilliant way of addressing everyone’s desire for bench warp

[thorny harness]

does the mushroom quest give a percentage?

[modest coyote]

It’s not as easy as Bench warping but it’s close enough that I think it it’s a sufficient substitute

[jovial trail]

Also puppies

[modest coyote]

No

Mushroom quest only gives an ending cutscene and lore (of which is unintelligible to me)

[jovial trail]

I wonder if Mr mushroom will appear in non hollow knight TC games

[modest coyote]

All I know is mr mushroom is basically an apocalypse tourist

[thorny harness]

to be continued

[modest coyote]

He goes to places where really bad shit is happening and looks at stuff

[pure zodiac]

it definitely has the sequel symptom where everything is more colorful and cooler and bigger cuz there's absolutely no way we'd get an npc like shakra in hollow knight with those cool shapes and bright yellow

[green yoke]

Grimm headass

[thorny harness]

btw i have a question arent trubbio and grim related at all???

[pure zodiac]

why would they be lmao

[modest coyote]

That’s true but I wouldn’t say everything is “more colourful” they definitely toned down some more extreme areas and left them to dreams like coral

[jovial trail]

I don’t think so, they just happen to be red guys with flashy fights

[modest coyote]

They are third cousins canonically

[serene belfry]

if you think hollow knight was dark you should take a look at the concept art for the game in its early stages

[sinful nimbus]

SS art and gameplay is way cooler

[pure zodiac]

i did

[serene belfry]

it was fucking dark souls 3 ass everything was grey imagine if everything was the howling cliffs

[modest coyote]

Who happen to make similarly themed invitations and choreographies it’s 100% meant to evoke Grimm

[green yoke]

I mean the game in general is also this compared to Hallownest. The citadel is bright and gilded while the city of tears was dreary stonework and iron. Hallownest had no real music, and Pharloom is filled with bells and musics

[thorny harness]

idk but yk there was like a statue or smth before entering the fight areana and he lowk looked like grimm

[serene belfry]

nice hollow knight is still somewhat colorful by comparison we get stuff like greenpath etc but pharloom is a more alive environment than hallownest tbf

[modest coyote]

Tbh I think the most “outlandish” designs was all the robots but they make it gloomy enough to be fine

[pure zodiac]

of course it is a dying kingdom so it can't all be pretty roses but pharloom is definitely more extravagant in general i think

[serene belfry]

i think some npc even says directly hallownest is "dying"

[modest coyote]

Hallownest is dead not dying

It’s basically undergone the radiance apocalypse

[dapper willow]

I love how alive Pharloom feels
Really sells that the land still has a future after the whole plot ends

[pure zodiac]

they sneaked an entire dark souls boss in the game with the last judge lol, her fire spinning attack is some elden ring shit

[modest coyote]

Pharloom is kinda midway through the apocalypse until act 3

[green yoke]

Now how do we stop that nutcase's Lifeblood experiments from spreading

[nova sluice]

Golden age Hallownest was probably really alive

[modest coyote]

The only boss which looked outlandish was fourth chorus although I’m sure there’s a reason

[serene belfry]

its dead after the end of the game because theres nothing left no objectives nothing of value and every major character there is dead or dying in the middle of the game its basically on its deathbed id say

[pure zodiac]

there are similarities but there's nothing lore wise that even implies a relation between them two

[tiny socket]

He’s stopped himself, what a hero

[serene belfry]

real lmao

[modest coyote]

They’re third cousins

[dapper willow]

seems pretty contained to the wormways
Maybe after he dies the lifeblood calmst down

[teal sinew]

I just saw the true ending, i still dont get what’s the deal with pharloom and all those bells. Does anyone know

[green yoke]

Idk if you Needolin by the Lifeblood in act 1, it's all "just need to start, one little root" or something similarly desiring to spread

[tiny socket]

It’s part of the pilgrims tradition I think

[nova sluice]

Unn be like
"Did something happen? Oh well, back to sleep"

[modest coyote]

You’re visiting the Vatican and asking what’s with all the crosses

[thorny harness]

tbh who u think harder hollow knight or silksong

[tiny socket]

Without the bells the game would just be silk

[serene belfry]

meanwhile everyone in greenpath: WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN

[dapper willow]

act4 livefblood dlc

[pure zodiac]

nah, first sinner, a base game boss, is on the level of pure vessel in specticle and aesthetic, they clearly raised the level of the bosses

[elder nymph]

Do you mean game or character

[teal sinew]

But why bells in particular? I dont see any religious deities hung up on a bell

[serene belfry]

if im not mistaken its to echo the sounds and songs used to keep gms asleep

[green yoke]

In all fairness the Vatican doesn't have a district called Crosshome literally built out of crucifixes

[serene belfry]

basically keep it resonating everywhere

[thorny harness]

game

[nova sluice]

I would love a lifeblood dlc solely bcs that time of blue is so beautiful

[elder nymph]

Silksong easily

Thats purely my opinion tho

[dapper willow]

I think it was said that the bells were there before even Pharloom

[serene belfry]

every enemy is gonna be regenerating tho

[green yoke]

I would say base Silksong easily beats base hollow knight, but Godhome still has the edge on difficulty

[dapper willow]

Also silksong only gets really hard around act 3

[teal sinew]

But then why do they require pilgrims to collect the 3 melodies to ascend higher? What does that even achieve? They’ll just wake her up once they go up

[thorny harness]

we need a rushmode in silksong

[serene belfry]

tbf tho godhome is deliberately posed as a challenge a silksong pantheon would be definitely harder imo and the delivery quests are fucking hell

[serene belfry]

good question lowkey forgot all about the threefold song whats the lore behind that again?

[pure zodiac]

it's hard to beat a 45 minute boss gauntlet in difficulty

[green yoke]

We can only assume that they'd be accompanied back in the day and made into a Conductor (or similar) themselves. These are meant to be people who have proven themselves beyond devout

[dapper willow]

I think its a red herring
They need to collect someting that is likely impossible to collect

[teal sinew]

No idea man

[elder nymph]

Anybody have a checklist for everything you can get before act 3?

[thorny harness]

we need iselda as a bossfight

[modest coyote]

if they had the means middle age church would 100% do thst have u seen the necropolis of france lol

[elder nymph]

Religion!

[dapper willow]

I love the treefold melody btw
It sounds so good and collecting it is an amazing experinece

[teal sinew]

If that was the case the elevator upwards wouldve been a booby trap or smth

[green yoke]

That shit is Bone Bottom irl

[dapper willow]

lace is there to stab you at the top

[modest coyote]

they literally made giant tunnels of people's skulls including crosses etc

[serene belfry]

so real

[dapper willow]

the melody of the architect is glorious

[modest coyote]

its super cool but my point is clearly TC was inspired by this type of grandiosity

[serene belfry]

REAL the one with the music notes puzzle right?

[serene belfry]

silksong is just blasphemous 2 (2)

[green yoke]

I mean wide scale organised religion does inevitably tend towards indulgent spectacle

[modest coyote]

"guys a place made out of bells for rleigious reasons is absurd!"

[dapper willow]

yes

[modest coyote]

in france they literally have an undeerground bone bottom

[pallid socket]

this is where i post from

[modest coyote]

its super cool tho dont get me wrong

[dapper willow]

insane that places like this exist irl
Straight out of dark souls

[serene belfry]

so real catacombs vibes

[modest coyote]

i mean its not like they were forcing people to put their bones like that

[serene belfry]

the threefold melody is also straightup a "ring the bells of awakening"

[neat plank]

what does eira mean when she call bell beast

[modest coyote]

they started an underground cemetary for space and people just had the idea to make a big project of it

[serene belfry]

alot of games have a "make this thing go ding to open important thing" nowadays not sure where it started

[serene belfry]

pretty sure its what hornet named her she says it after the absolute goat rips apart the bell eater

[modest coyote]

making things of bones is not new, and christians have been making relics for a while and putting them in aura farming ways too

[serene belfry]

aura farming ways lmao true tho

[dapper willow]

I think Eira is the name of the bell beast

[terse warren]

Yeah makes sense

[modest coyote]

also in france

[pallid socket]

so many bones might as well be efficient with the space and make something that looks appealing

[green yoke]

Sounds scottish, I approve

[dapper willow]

40k ass something

[modest coyote]

i love it lol

i think its really quite beautiful

[elder nymph]

Sherma is from 40k

[serene belfry]

whats this called

looks sick

[elder nymph]

Only an Imperial could have such blind faith

[modest coyote]

relic of mary magdelene in basilica of Saint-Maximin-la-Sainte-Baume

[serene belfry]

heretic!

[modest coyote]

i wouldnt say its blind faith u need somewhere to bury ur bones

[dapper willow]

Sherma starts to have doubts too by the end of the game
Which is honestly good because the whole system of pharloom is horrid

[elder nymph]

Sherma is blind faith

I never commented on real life.

[modest coyote]

i mean i dont think the catacombs of france are a case of religious extremism i think its a case of a cultural expression

[modest coyote]

oh about the games true ofc

[serene belfry]

idk the history of it so no comment it just looks sick tho

[green yoke]

I think anyone would after seeing Whiteward

[modest coyote]

my point bringing it up was when someone was like "why would the citadel and pharloom use bells in such a manner"

crazier things exist in real life and TC clearly took some inspiration

[elder nymph]

All together now

[dapper willow]

whiteward is the soul sanctum of pharloom

I wish that place was bigger

[modest coyote]

we get audio of the surgery tho its disgusting

[serene belfry]

every big castle/city has their big libary and their unethical experiment segment

[modest coyote]

i found it way more visceral than the implied horror of soul sanctum

[serene belfry]

again i wonder where this trope started cause its in so much shit

[modest coyote]

i wasnt really expecting the audio

[green yoke]

Nothing has genuinely scared me in Hollow Knight except the danm Dreg Husks

[elder nymph]

Hey, ethics are tbd

[dapper willow]

I don't think its implied after we see the piles of corpses and what they turn into

[serene belfry]

i think its universally agreed that the silk experiments were unethical based on the abhorrent amount of corpses down there ngl

[elder nymph]

Take Surgeon bug as an example

[modest coyote]

i mean that we know what happened to them but how they got there is left to the imagination except soul experimentaiton

but we dont really know what that actually entailed

[green yoke]

I bet the Whiteward crew would've snatched Yarnaby right up as an esteemed colleague

[modest coyote]

we hear the surgery

i was not expecting it when it began playing

[dapper willow]

I guess we do see the stabby stabby tools in the wards

[serene belfry]

hornet's scream during yarnaby surgery holy shyte

[elder nymph]

Dude was used

[serene belfry]

https://youtu.be/IyV5Floy52I?si=P_EQ4kcLZJLAKw6d clickbait ass title but

[modest coyote]

i mean that surgery is more like a really wierd root canal

[covert night]

10/10 ragebait

[dapper willow]

Yarnaba has never heard about anasthesia

[modest coyote]

like its necessary to save hornet's life

[rough siren]

is Seth Seth?

[elder nymph]

Why you share the dumb

[modest coyote]

yep

[rough siren]

omg

[gleaming creek]

Are Shadow Creepers the only returning enemies in all of Silksong?

[serene belfry]

rip seth

[green yoke]

Genuinely like knock me out though

I'd take being hit unconscious with a rock over enduring that without sedation

[modest coyote]

i mean there could be a medical reason to avoid sedation idk

in real life they often dont sedate using brain surgery

[dapper willow]

wingsmould

[green yoke]

The reason is that Yarnaby is a quack

[modest coyote]

the brain doesnt have pain receptors tho

[dapper willow]

baby garpedes

[serene belfry]

void tendrils

[modest coyote]

literal witch doctor lol

[elder nymph]

Wait, Seth was the asshole guarding the sanctuary right?

Did captain America shield throws

[modest coyote]

yes but dont be mean

[gleaming creek]

I am not sure if I'd cout void tendril as an enemy

But I did foret Wingsmould

[serene belfry]

yes respect to seth goldman

[elder nymph]

I GET TO WHOOP THAT ASS AGAIN!? LETS GO

[dapper willow]

more crazy than a quack

[modest coyote]

i mean

[serene belfry]

bro aint no way you count kingsmould if your not counting void tendril tho

[timber grove]

havent read much of what's in here but i just realized how much OLDER hornet really is considering she trained under prime hive queen.. and by the time the knight got to the hive she was already gigantic in the background dead. Judging by how the old ones work where they grow bigger.. like skarrsinger karmelita prime and the one we talked to in silksong.. she old OLD huh

[modest coyote]

yarnaby managed to do a successful surgery no?

[gleaming creek]

So Silksong has 3 returning enemies from the original Hollow Knight then. 😁

[modest coyote]

i cant call her a quack

[green yoke]

Imagine if there's a secret ending in the Godhome equivalent for doing it while cursed

[modest coyote]

moreso just a bit insane

[dapper willow]

maybe Vespa had a grow spur

[serene belfry]

nah im gonna kms

[green yoke]

I mean she left most of the thing in there, it's just subdued enough to use. That's hardly been "extricated"

[modest coyote]

what doesnt kill you makes you stronger ahh surgery

[serene belfry]

team cherry obsessed with locking lore behind the most absurdly difficult challenge

[dapper willow]

I think she got everything she could out of hornet

[serene belfry]

and it'll be like a item with a vague 2 sentence description or a 3 second cutscene

[elder nymph]

? What challenge is absurdly difficult?

I can think of a few that qualify

[timber grove]

yea im not sure either i just assumed big = very OLD considering we see a repeat of it from Vespa to Karmelita

[modest coyote]

i cant be the only one who was not paying attention collecting the psalm cylinders and then playing them as i turned them in not expecting to hear a fucking grotesque abominatable surgery

[dapper willow]

nameless town climb

[green yoke]

Honestly I don't doubt that. But if it comes down to a 20/80 chance of survival and going to Yarnaby would make it 100, I'm taking my chances

[elder nymph]

Ohhhhhhhhhh. Once you learn what it is asking it isnt so bad

[dapper willow]

Karmelita didn't even grow that much
and I think most of her mass was clothing
She looked very unclear visually in the real world, i could not make out her form

[serene belfry]

hyperbole but i'd say void idol, seal of binding, steel soul npc dialogue/boss entry perhaps as well

[wheat plank]

You see her ghost in hk, and she looks just like in the memory in silksong

[elder nymph]

Hell, I had to go back up there for Mr. Mushroom

I had the shortcut at least

[dapper willow]

I still needed to sleep on it to succeed the next day

[pure zodiac]

it's not absurdly difficult there's just no healing spots

[serene belfry]

imo lore reveal up there is so not worth it

[modest coyote]

im not including ghosts/dreams

[dapper willow]

I liked what I found up there
Some more hollow kngiht-ish environments

also the garpedes are the healing
They give you the silk

[serene belfry]

it isnt that hard esp compared to PoP for example but it didn't show any grand reveal or anything the area was kinda cool tho

[wheat plank]

It still shows how she looks more clearly in the memory

[serene belfry]

ye

[green yoke]

Simply overdose on Lifeblood :clueless:

[modest coyote]

u get a memento atleast

[pure zodiac]

it did show the actual top of pharloom and the two dudes who got there lol

[modest coyote]

who?

[dapper willow]

I never did that and I do not feel the urge to ever do it

[serene belfry]

who? the bug corpses?

[green yoke]

It's really only useful for that and maybe LL

[pure zodiac]

corpses lol

[serene belfry]

and true and seeing the surface is pretty cool but like it doesn't seem to really.. matter that much or answer any particular mystery

[elder nymph]

Pop all 6 lifeblood and nothing happens. Maybe if you could get more? But wormways only has like 2 or 4

[dapper willow]

I would still do it knowing whats up there

[green yoke]

I mean did you expect it to?

[serene belfry]

whereas PoP for example is at least direct confirmation that sealed vessel wasn't hollow and showed the direct act that sealed hallownest' demise

[dapper willow]

people do it with architect crest

[serene belfry]

i hoped it would cause of how you get there its still pretty cool tho

[pure zodiac]

i'm sure it can give some lore implications that we're just not getting, howling cliffs also didn't do much until they put grimm there

[modest coyote]

btw

does broodmother EAT the prisoners?

[serene belfry]

true lets wait for dlcs and the mossbag video lmao

[timber grove]

idk maybe im just tripping but this seems to me like her entire head and we see it here getting "detached" after the fight

[dapper willow]

They are absolved after death
Skipping out on the whole prison sentence is a fate too kind to sinners

[edgy river]

The climb was fun

[modest coyote]

one of the punishments in slab is "swallowing" and needolin on broodmother is "must eat"

[dapper willow]

oh now I can see her
She is like double the size

[edgy river]

I wish there was more difficult platforming in the game tho

[modest coyote]

also broodmother gives birth to the prison guard specie

[gilded beacon]

Lace is like, super jealous of Hornet right?

[edgy river]

There wasn't a place close to PoP for now, maybe dlc....

[dapper willow]

yeah
I love how crazy she is

[modest coyote]

i think it is very possible broodmother gives birth to enprisoners who bring who her "food" in the form of sinners

what else does "Penitent, Fourth of the Fourth. Guilty of the sins of infirmity, sickness. Penance by swallowing. Absolution granted after death."

[gilded beacon]

Is she like, hateful jealous or obsessive jealous, or both?

[serene belfry]

imo GENERAL platforming was harder than og hollow knight

[modest coyote]

Penance by swallowing? i think this person was fed to the fucking broodmother

[serene belfry]

like the average platforming section even though both aren't particularly difficult

[elder nymph]

Lifeblood, Fleabrew, Poison tool. Go be a maniac

[dapper willow]

I don't think she hates hornet... because she tells us in deep docks she "likes us already"

[green yoke]

I mean they do say sins there can only be absolved by death

[pure zodiac]

LOWKEY disappointed we didn't get a colisseum or path of pain, with how much extra shit they added you'd think they'd add something like that instead of making bilewater fucking huge

[timber grove]

i didnt even know about their relationship till this.. yes i did not read the hunter entry lmao

[elder nymph]

Cause Hornet isnt a bitch

Hornet has fight in her

[modest coyote]

crazy

i cant believe the cruelty of pharloom

[gilded beacon]

Damn, she's really into that, huh?

[modest coyote]

they have broodmother who gives birth to captor bugs which bring her sinners for her to eat

[pure zodiac]

she's belittling hornet the entire game lol

[edgy river]

For sure but this left me even more excited for a grand challenge like a White Palace kind of thing

Mount Fay was kinda close but then they give you wings and it's a bummer because now there no challenge to test your full moveset

[sharp hawk]

It was the first thing I needolined in this area and it made me feel a bit more sympathetic towards lace

[modest coyote]

isnt that insane?

the ecosystem of pharloom is automated cruelty

[serene belfry]

feel like they might in the future but yea i see where you're coming from

[dapper willow]

She kinda does but I think towards the end she is more accepting of what hornet wants to do

[sacred heath]

hornet pulled a reverse LTG on lace after their second fight

[green yoke]

This wasn't made clear by the quite literal engine of suffering that is the Underworks?

[sharp hawk]

Hopefully it'll be included in the inevitable DLC ^_^

[edgy river]

Tbf the Sinners Road + Bilewater first playthrough was insane and one of the high points of the game.

It's all so unsettling and unsafe, it's like Deepnest x10

[elder nymph]

You say inevitable, but idk

[gilded beacon]

To be fair she saves Hornet at the end, Soo...

[serene belfry]

bilewater was a fucking low low low point for me

[modest coyote]

didnt path of pain come out in DLC not base game?

[dapper willow]

now imagine how phantom must feel

[edgy river]

Team Cherry said they were already working on it before the game released

[serene belfry]

simply cause of the stikin i hate them

[foggy fractal]

yeah

[elder nymph]

No, she wants to see GMS die.

[green yoke]

I mean she has an inferiority complex a mile wide about her nature

[edgy river]

Yeah but we had white palace

[sharp hawk]

TBF the coral tower felt like a coliseum to me, even with a final challenge at the end with khann

[green yoke]

Comes with being a homunculus

[pure zodiac]

sinners road was fine, bilewater lost me at the shakra quest

[elder nymph]

Cool. At least it will be free

[pure zodiac]

i liked the coral but it's a one time thing and only a few rounds

[modest coyote]

i think mount fay is a close enough substitute

[gilded beacon]

Yeah, but she also saves her from GMS

[pure zodiac]

and also they scrapped the coral forest so no it's not a fair tradeoff give me back my fucking coral forest

[modest coyote]

pale king: makes public transporation

grandmother silk: feeds the disabled to broodsmother

[elder nymph]

Wasn't intentional. I think Lace comments about it before the dive

[modest coyote]

who do you want as your leader?

[elder nymph]

Lace even wants it all to come down

[edgy river]

She locks the benches behind a pay wall

[green yoke]

I would take anything Lace says to Hornet with a grain of salt

Girl is very insecure

[edgy river]

Permanent pay wall, you need to pay to sit each time

[dapper willow]

She did not need to cut hornet free to do that

[modest coyote]

lace is doing a little known thing called: lying

[elder nymph]

Not after the fall I wouldn't

[serene belfry]

how much agency did gms even have in running the kingdom

[sharp hawk]

I'm mad abt it too but it makes sense cuz like. Having this beautiful ocean expanse underneath the choking citadel which destroys the surrounding habitats wouldn't make sense. Hopefully they do a verdania sort of thing with the area and make it accessible in a dream in a dlc

[pure zodiac]

it was completely intentionall, she wanted GMS to not have hornet, not out of fondness for hornet but more for pettyness over her mother

[serene belfry]

i feel like most of it was done institutionally by the citadel

[modest coyote]

GMS set the citidel up no?

[elder nymph]

Better to say it wasn't out of kindness for Hornet

[pure zodiac]

i thought we were gonna have a sidequest to return the water to the area........ that would've been so dope........

[green yoke]

Even then, her saying she wants it all to come down is just kind of her despair talking. She wants to live, hence her laughter during the ending

[modest coyote]

GMS is literally their god

[sharp hawk]

That would've been sick too, and I was thinking that maybe the lifeblood would bring life back to the area somehow as it's implied to be climbing up into blasted steps thru wormways

[elder nymph]

Personality wise she is laughing because she was saved. Never imagined probably. Like, psychotic thoughts. Which Lace seems prone to

[serene belfry]

idk not an area of the lore i'm well versed in but alot of decisions seem to have been made somewhat independent of GMS especially after weaver rebellion

[sharp hawk]

And blasted steps feels like it was part of coral forest initially

[pure zodiac]

there's some coral shit in blasted steps so i think that's what the sands will become eventually

just more blasted steps

[green yoke]

Hence why it's hard to trust anything she says to be 100% true. It's not that she's an intentional liar, just very much someone who's bad at telling the truth when it comes to themselves

[edgy river]

I didn't get you were supposed to use the rocket jump in the dream section of coral tower and was genuinely thinking i had to do a water puzzle to bring water back into the tower do I could progress

[elder nymph]

The gauntlet was in coral forest no?

[pure zodiac]

the what jump

[elder nymph]

Coral Tower?

[edgy river]

I got the green prince heart first and thendid coral and it clicked

[serene belfry]

l2+down go up

[edgy river]

The nail up thing I forget the name

[pure zodiac]

the joke is that my name is rocket

[sharp hawk]

Yes but there was probably more planned for the area

[green yoke]

I loved the Clover Dancers fight aaaaaa TC knew they did something special with Clockwork Dancers

[elder nymph]

Has to be. There is stuff in the trailers not in the game yet

[edgy river]

The real colesseum of fools is that one fight before getting the song

[dapper willow]

Hornet has a psycho daughter now

[sharp hawk]

I think it was scrapped and saved for DLC alongside the steel guys

[elder nymph]

Sister might fit better. At least to me

[green yoke]

Yeaahhhhh let's continue the theme of motherhood wooooo

[serene belfry]

sadly i obliterated them cause wanderer's crest and cogflies

[modest coyote]

guys there will be dlc stop acting like the game is over

think about how much dlc hollowknight got

[serene belfry]

i love them tho liked cogwork dancers more

[modest coyote]

like 30% of hollowknight is dlc

[green yoke]

I feel like with the way Lace is, it's mostly like a sister stepping into the role of parent after the death of the mother

[elder nymph]

I like what this team does so let em cook. Pretty sure it will be a better overall experience if HK is any indicator

[dapper willow]

She really can't throw her back into the wild though

[modest coyote]

they have a lot of opportunity to do dlc

[sharp hawk]

Fr the whole storyline was amazing and tragic, when I first got to verdania in the dream I almost cried 🥹🥹

[edgy river]

Can't wait for Team Cherry to announce they actually won't be doing DLC anymore because they had way too many ideas and now are working on Hollow Knight: Lacetrace or smth

[serene belfry]

on some nier automata ass vibes it hits more when its robot lovers lmao

[modest coyote]

they can do a whole lifeblood dlc, or maybe they have trobbio successfully invite grimm somehow

[serene belfry]

-PLEASEEEE

[edgy river]

Is trobbio connected to Grimm?

[elder nymph]

They could of easily taken the money and ran after Silksong dropped

[serene belfry]

imagine trobbio and grimm having a conversation fucking legendary

[edgy river]

Other than design?

[modest coyote]

i dont know

its clearly meant to evoke grimm

[serene belfry]

lore wise i think no but i thought they were at first after seeing the poster for the first time

[elder nymph]

Not all thespians know eachother

[modest coyote]

the way he sets up signs for his performances seems very grimm coded

[ancient scroll]

i think they just have similar color schemes

[serene belfry]

for sure let bro join the troupe

[elder nymph]

However, Grimm was a traveling troupe and their shows generally didn't go well for the viewers

[modest coyote]

they have a lot of similarities that feel very inentional

[sharp hawk]

Why does everyone connect trobbio to Grimm? Like is it just vibes or something else I'm missing??

[edgy river]

They share themes of theater and stuff

[serene belfry]

also both drama kings

[edgy river]

Grimms first fight is a show for an audience

[modest coyote]

maybe trobbio isnt part of the troupe maybe he was just a fan of the troupe

[serene belfry]

trobbio somehow more

[green yoke]

Stage performer
Drumroll pre fight
Red theming
Fought on a stage

[ancient scroll]

so every painter is connected as well?

[modest coyote]

like he saw the show as a kid

[ancient scroll]

just put the theater bug in the bag

[modest coyote]

grimm would still be cool tho

[elder nymph]

Grimm doesnt play dead

[edgy river]

Maybe trobbio just played HK when he was 13 and was inspired by e the "cool" vibes or whatever

He seems like he plays games on his free time

[sinful nimbus]

they made grimm pfps into a real character wtf

[modest coyote]

they have a lot of things they can do for dlc

[elder nymph]

That dude is a thespian he does thespian stuff in all actions

[edgy river]

I'd wish clearance on lifeblood/plasmium

[elder nymph]

Literally

[edgy river]

And radiances infection

[modest coyote]

no

[serene belfry]

tRObiOoOOoOoOooOoO

[modest coyote]

i want radiance to be a hallownest exclusive

and i want gms to be a pharloom exclusive

i think it would mess it up to have them overlap

[serene belfry]

same but it would be cool to get a subtle but deliberate mention

[modest coyote]

a mention sure but i do not wanna see any infected radiance bugs or anything of that

[edgy river]

I'm not saying I want her to come back. But by exploring lifeblood we might get a glimpse into how she used (if at all) elements of lifeblood to make the infection spread

[elder nymph]

I want to go to Hollownest as Hornet and see how the shit is doing

[edgy river]

Considering the similarities

[dapper willow]

Hornet mentions the infection in a journal entry about lifeblood worm

[serene belfry]

of the infectiocalypse

[sacred heath]

plasmium expansion, steel city expansion, hell bring back grim troupe and godseeker for the fun of it

[dim beacon]

||pantheon ending is canon oh my god ? || HUGE TRUE ENDING SPOILERS

[elder nymph]

I want to see the relationship between Hornet and the Mantia tribe

There is history there

[dapper willow]

YEEEEEEES
ABLOLUTELY

[serene belfry]

for sure it would make no sense

[edgy river]

I mean it can be just normal radiance ending, no?

[modest coyote]

they wont do godseeker bbut smth similar

[serene belfry]

so on board with this the feels would be insane

[modest coyote]

i would be ok with grimm tho

also i want zote

[edgy river]

Ik knight appears as shade lord but he is mostly in his form he is when he beats radiance normally

[dim beacon]

||Specifically Shade Lord shows up. they only show up in the pantheon ending not the dream no more ending||

[sacred heath]

apparently!
unless shadelord was always down there and we only see it in ETV

[dim beacon]

i mean good point !

[modest coyote]

his sword is made of shellwood

[dapper willow]

Shadelord always existed in some form

[rancid dew]

Shade Lord could be a part of the knight's potential that they unleash later after killing Radiance.

[edgy river]

It could be created whenever knights goes into the void on DNM

[sacred heath]

“I am also in this ending” - shade lord probably

[dapper willow]

It seems to be a generic term

[rancid dew]

I think it's clear though that Radiance is dead though, not sealed, from Hornet's dialogue.

[modest coyote]

its an area in silksong