sk-lore

[edgy stone]

Last of their line means they were born from weavers reproducing with other bugs and are the last of that lineage

[carmine geyser]

i somehow did it in my fourth try, its a very good boss but i kind of dont like some of the attacks

[elfin niche]

GMS resented the fact the Weavers became independent of her.

[lofty otter]

Didn’t GMS need a whole masterplan to do the haunting

[elfin niche]

She wanted a child who would always be a child.

[serene belfry]

what about ones similar to it in the deep docks talking abt workers or the ones in the snail chapel

[keen compass]

Cogwork dancers was too ez for me to enjoy it

[carmine geyser]

lace is still my favourite because it feels like some kind of dance

[elfin niche]

Jokes on her in making Lace teenage tho

[edgy stone]

Weavers and weaver offspring seem to be only able to reproduce females

[lofty otter]

Thas tru

[edgy stone]

So they will die out

[tiny steeple]

How does that work?

[whole hawk]

Weavers were infertile no?

[ancient scroll]

karmelitas the goat

[keen compass]

Cogwork dancers telegraphing their every move made it too ez

[elfin niche]

No.

[serene belfry]

so basically these are all describing the results of missions to find weavers (though most of them are only quarter or 8th weavers meanwhile hornet is half)

[edgy stone]

No they just couldnt reproduce men it seems

[carmine geyser]

how were clover dancers for u?

[elfin niche]

You can see here "of eighth part"

[keen compass]

missed the fight

[serene belfry]

CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN THE WEAVER LORE PLS

[elfin niche]

So of this ones great grandparents, only one was a Weaver.

[amber thicket]

hey what's with the bells everywhere? beat the whole game but i must've missed that detail

[carmine geyser]

its possible to miss it?

[edgy stone]

It is not

[elfin niche]

GMS uses Silk to turn dumb spiders into Weavers.

[keen compass]

Where is it lol I missed it

[elfin niche]

Weavers eventually decide they don't want to do what GMS says any more.

[carmine geyser]

greymoor craw lake to the right

[elfin niche]

Weavers run away and hide.

[edgy stone]

Verdania its at the very far right side of greymoor

[nova sluice]

Bells are amazing to keep sound resonance without much effort

[elfin niche]

GMS tracks the Weavers and their descendents down.

[tiny steeple]

Whos gms?

[keen compass]

I'll reload my save and go kick their ass

[elfin niche]

Grand Mother Silk

[serene belfry]

first sinner is also easy and i still like it cause of the music sync, sadge last phase banger ost and the difficulty comes from at first not being used to their large hurtbox on attacks, one of them locking out a dodge zone and the third phase messing up your tempo

[nova sluice]

Grand Mother Silk

[keen compass]

I'll use my architect railgun spam build

[serene belfry]

its easy cause its quite well made imo

[keen compass]

Architect crest is so sleeper broken i feel lol

[serene belfry]

how do we know this and how does this happen and does that mean the weavers in hollow knight were made by her too

[amber thicket]

i still don't understand sorry

[keen compass]

Infinitely regenerating health AND railgun spam

[whole hawk]

First Sinner cutscene

[serene belfry]

also is fs and widow weavers in full?

[amber thicket]

i feel this way but with big heal, fast heal, and trobbio's mirrors

[edgy stone]

Okay so the entire musical motif of silksong is all due to the citadel and its cult

[serene belfry]

why didnt gms just try take FS?

[elfin niche]

Because the game tells us and yes.

[edgy stone]

The citadel is basically a giant musical box that lures gms to sleep

[elfin niche]

Herrah is from Pharloom.

[keen compass]

anyways, ima go eep, night all!

[elfin niche]

(Which is definitely a retcon but there you go)

[edgy stone]

After its creation it bore the cult of the citadel and bugs started to almost worship music and musical instruments

So they started to make bells

A lot of fucking bells

[amber thicket]

why bells specifically, did they just choose bells?

[edgy stone]

Biggest instrument usually

[serene belfry]

rewatched it i understand now

[edgy stone]

Bells have been used in towers for ages to tell time and shit

[carmine geyser]

i had a question, why was the last judge the last judge?, what happened to all the other judges?

[serene belfry]

so

gms used silk to turn regular spider things until weavers basically highly intelligent more advanced lightforms

[nova sluice]

At some point weavers used music to put GMS to sleep, a very specific tone that should resonate forever. Needolin and other forms of instruments are hard to maintain but bells are easy and any bugs can use it.
Just like tuning forks, bells can keep resonance and replicate the music applied to them, at least a big part of it, and they reach very far (hence churches using them)

[craggy smelt]

the others are still around, Last Judge is just the last one you have to fight
like, the last judge before you reach the citadel

[amber thicket]

oh, that makes sense

[serene belfry]

but after that? i heard smth here abt them trapping gms or rebelling against/hating her

[edgy stone]

Yeah the name last judge means the last one before youre allowed to enter

[amber thicket]

makes sense. where in games does it say the music keep her asleep?

[edgy stone]

Its also why sinners road is named sinners road

[serene belfry]

"She called us daughters... called us divine... She lied."

[edgy stone]

Its the only way into the citadel outside of the judges

[carmine geyser]

also why was act 3 so hidden? i have a feeling a lot of people who dont look up guides wont find it and find the ending kind of anticlimactic

[whole hawk]

Silksong lore is basically one gigantic spat between a mother and her daughters

[serene belfry]

how we know this (in game reference)

[neat sandal]

I thought it's like all other Last
Last Conductor, Last architect, last vaultkeeper

[craggy smelt]

that's just a Hollow Knight thing, the true ending in the first game is also well hidden

[edgy stone]

No those motherfuckers were just dying out

[calm chasm]

can someone explain weavers to me I still dont understand their role in past Pharloom

[nova sluice]

Which part?

[edgy stone]

We see more of the judges actually

You find a big nest of them in blasted steps

[serene belfry]

weavers using music to put gms to sleep also WHY was she put to sleep

[edgy stone]

Like the babies

[carmine geyser]

i think less so, youre kind of meant to explore the full map, only corrupting the kingsoul is a bit obscure

[serene belfry]

same here

[serene belfry]

yea but the regular hk ending is still kinda peak

[edgy stone]

Most obscure part id say is pale castle

[craggy smelt]

you can explore the whole map in silksong too, you just get messed up versions of it in A3

[edgy stone]

The game tells you about the kings crest and kinda points you to the void

[serene belfry]

so even if you miss out on radiance and voidheart you'll probably be more satisfied than with silksong's ending cause sealed vessel is such a peak boss

[carmine geyser]

only if you dont remember the palace grounds, plus theres a stag station right on it

[elfin niche]

The true ending for HK is outrageously difficult.

[carmine geyser]

and the awoken dreamnail dialouge really does hint u towards it

[elfin niche]

Most players will never beat Pantheon 5.

[carmine geyser]

was the true ending dream no more or embrace the void?

[calm chasm]

isnt Dream No More considered True Ending

[serene belfry]

fucking zote and sly beat my ass so many times

[calm chasm]

Godhome ending is a bit
wierd

[serene belfry]

true ending is a toss up between the 3 ones involving killing the radiance

[amber thicket]

wait what's sealed vessel

[serene belfry]

the hollow knight

[elfin niche]

I think SS weakly implies ETV is the true ending because you see a brief stutter frame of the LoS from the ETV ending.

[amber thicket]

oh lol

[calm chasm]

then how would you explain the Hornet and Hollow Knight scene at the end

[whole hawk]

Silksong's """normal Act 2 endings""" are intentionally unsatisfying because the game is about Hornet. And Hornet's character arc only gets fully developed and resolved in Act 3. Unlike Hollow Knight, there's a real narrative thruline here which you need to see through to the end.

[calm chasm]

she mentioned no such scene, therefore Dream No More must be True Ending

[craggy smelt]

the Weavers were created by the higher being, Grand Mother Silk - they founded Pharloom for her, but eventually rebelled against her rule and bound her in her cocoon
when she started to wake up, the Weavers orchestrated the rise of the Citadel to keep her trapped with silk magic and music
but she was still slowly waking up, so the Weavers fled the kingdom entirely
Silk eventually took over the Citadel from within and sent them to hunt down the Weavers, harvesting their power while working towards her awakening

[serene belfry]

could also be the flower one or the knight became shade lord in dream no more offscreen

[carmine geyser]

i think its just embrace the void?, would make the most sense

[edgy stone]

The citadel caste were probably the stupidest bugs weve ever seen honestly

[carmine geyser]

although hallownest getting fully corrupted would be quite sad

[edgy stone]

The citadel caste made every bad decision they couldve

[serene belfry]

one thing that was mentioned is we don't see shade hollow knight (who also isn't involved in the embrace the void endings)

making embrace the void or flower ending possible

[neat sandal]

more like outrageously tedious
1 hours of no mistake
it's like you playing steel soul

[edgy stone]

Hey lets inject ourselves with this magical silk and lets pass it onto our children too what the hell can go wrong

[carmine geyser]

would also mean u have to acknowledge the void as a hivemind since we dont know how far pharloom is from hallownest

[serene belfry]

do we know why they rebelled

[calm chasm]

so why did she manipulate the pilgrims to get them to go to citadel

[craggy smelt]

not really - the First Sinner says that Silk lied about the Weavers nature
"...She called us daughters... Called us divine... She lied..."
there's other references to just wanting to be free of her rule

[edgy stone]

The pilgrimage is actually not gms doing

Its the citadels

[carmine geyser]

GMS is a pale being right? do we know her origin?

[serene belfry]

mfs playing bloodborne

[serene belfry]

magic spider

[elfin niche]

Void is the opposite of a hivemind.

[calm chasm]

oh right the whiteward thingy

[craggy smelt]

GMS is a pale being, but we don't know where pale beings come from

[edgy stone]

The citadel acts as a group seperate of gms

[elfin niche]

Countless, endless tiny separate thoughts, no unity.

[neat sandal]

she is a god
she just there.

[carmine geyser]

how do u explain the vessel at the end of act 3 then?

[elfin niche]

That's the Knight specifically.

[edgy stone]

The whole holy pilgrimage thing is set up by the citadel and maybe the weavers to keep it ever prosperous

[elfin niche]

In his absence Void is just chaos.

[edgy stone]

The citadels success is an active detriment to gms

[calm chasm]

Knight is like "hey guys hold your fire this is my sister"

[serene belfry]

the void is one but the vessels and the shade brings order to the void cause they have degrees of sapience and knight is a nice guy

[serene belfry]

bro also saved lace when they didnt need to

[amber thicket]

it probably has some sort of control over the void, but can't control everything. Only what he can see i think

[carmine geyser]

so because the knight is sapient and hes one with the void he has control of it post hollow knight?

[serene belfry]

it could also be because the knight didn't really have a goal after killing rad

[calm chasm]

it saw Hornet trying to save Lace and probably helped her

[serene belfry]

so it didnt need to unite the void in any specific objective

[elfin niche]

He was actually trying to become a chess grandmaster.

Spends most of the day on Lichess.

True story.

[carmine geyser]

honestly i cant wait for the expansions of ss for more lore

[calm chasm]

I cant even think of what they would add to this massive game

[edgy stone]

Steel city is going to appear in the game

[serene belfry]

it might also be a inverse of the dark souls abyss (its naturally tranquil but some beings can control different sections of it and use it to their desires usually hostile because abyss reacts to their emotions, e.g manus)

[calm chasm]

outside of, you know, godmaster

[craggy smelt]

yeah, the Weavers orchestrated the citadel's rise, and convinced its leaders that they were basically taking over from the Weavers.

Conductor: The mantle of rule, claimed greedily from Pharloom's fading first children, those bitter Weavers... it was yoke, not crown.
Mask Maker: Devised by your ancestors that monstrosity, and their wicked, clever minds. A system, or a web they'd likely call it, a way to keep their mother sealed in slumber, and themselves free to lavish in their false rule.

[edgy stone]

There are multiple refrences to it and cut enemies

[carmine geyser]

definitely a kind of godhome and maybe map expansions?

[serene belfry]

yea i played against them once was about to win until the shades came onto the screen and assimilated my king to the void

[craggy smelt]

couple areas shown in earlier trailers are missing still~!
barnacle bay! coral forest!

[amber thicket]

yeah true. i imagine living in the void is mostly boring

and then it was like "oh wait that's my sister!"

the knight saving someone seemed out of character in my opinion, but maybe it gained some emotion living in the void

[elfin niche]

Knight a sore loser confirmed.

[carmine geyser]

do we kind of know the timeskip between hk and ss?

[elfin niche]

Nah, the Knight cares for people.

[serene belfry]

basically in hollow knights case the void is naturally hostile to everything but the knight can rule over certain parts of it or changes the whole thing depending on if they have an objective

[carmine geyser]

and also why was hornet being taken

[edgy stone]

Probably gonna appear where the grey watcher is

[elfin niche]

There's a fair few quests in HK that can only be explained by the Knight having empathy.

[amber thicket]

not that i know of

[craggy smelt]

the Citadel was hunting down weavers, and she's part-weaver

[edgy stone]

Shes the most pureblood weaver presumably alive that can be used by silk

[carmine geyser]

do we know if hornet was in pharloom during that time or were there kind of voyages outside to find weavers

[serene belfry]

the knight is pretty nice inherently the whole "no mind to think" doesn't actually apply to any vessel we see in the whole game

[amber thicket]

i guess it still has a sense of "good", and that didn't count against it being truly hollow then

[edgy stone]

Widow cant produce silk anymore and the first sinner will probably cause more harm than anything else

[elfin niche]

I don't think the Knight was hollow.

[serene belfry]

it wasn't ever hollow and couldn't ever be i thinkl

[craggy smelt]

there was a long campaign of the Citadel hunting down Weavers before they caught Hornet
the Weavers fled and a group of them arrived in Hallownest before that kingdom fell

[nova sluice]

I can't find a db with the cylinders and etc from the vault keeper but iirc the mentions are there about the music.
For why the rebellion, we don't know the full details but we know the ones that doubted Silk ended up in prison with citations of their sins on the tablets (FS as the biggest example) and this probably shows she wasn't a benevolent leader after all

[elfin niche]

The Pale King was mistaken. There couldn't be a truly hollow Knight.

[edgy stone]

One of which was caught in the steel city

[elfin niche]

The simple process of living caused them to acquire desires and hopes and regrets.

[amber thicket]

oh. so in the ending where he seals the radiance, the same thing would've happened?

[elfin niche]

In the default HK ending, it's just a cycle.

[edgy stone]

Its 100% gotta appear

[carmine geyser]

i would imagine because the pale king giving them sapience caused them to not be hollow anymore

[serene belfry]

ohh thats why they were put in prison thanks

[craggy smelt]

well.... depends on what 'hollow' really means...

[carmine geyser]

kind of like kingdom hearts

[elfin niche]

The Knight would have contained the Radiance for a bit... but not forever.

[serene belfry]

its a cycle so most likely

[elfin niche]

Same as the Hollow Knight.

[amber thicket]

definetely made a mistake explaining that bit of lore to my friends

[serene belfry]

lmao the hollow part is hard to figure out tbf

the game intentionally misleads you cause the pale king's narratives are everywhere

[edgy stone]

The base ending in both games are bad

[calm chasm]

it's funny that Hornet's memory barely mentioned Pale King

"he's there ig"

[serene belfry]

do you think she ever personally met or interacted with him much

[edgy stone]

Hornet probably never saw him and was also conditioned to not like him either

The weavers showed almost direct hostility to hornets pale side and wanted her to embrace her weaver side fully

[serene belfry]

like she wore robes and was clearly in his palace for a time but i doubt the pale king would care as she was only something that herrah cared for, she wanted a child in return for herrah becomign a dreamer

[elfin niche]

Herrah became a Dreamer basically immediately after giving birth to Hornet so I think there wasn't long between Hornets birth and the PK's death.

[amber thicket]

i don't know how involved in her life he was. he only had her so that hera could sleep, he might've not cared about her much

[elfin niche]

Not sure how well she ever actually knew him.

[serene belfry]

i need to know how pk died and why all the kingsmould's around him are dead man bigger mystery than the origin of void/void civilization details

[fair zealot]

the wearing robes and kneeling in front of the white lady makes me think she was a guest at the palace

[serene belfry]

i feel like he only saw the white lady and herrah as means to an end so he likely didn't care abt hornet

[edgy stone]

We dont really know how many people ever got to actually see the pk

[serene belfry]

yea good point

[amber thicket]

yeah probably. disregarding hornet, dude still wasn't the best dad lol

[elfin niche]

Yeah she was the heir to Deepnest.

Not Hallownest.

[nova sluice]

Apostasy = rejection of faith, even rebellion against it

[edgy stone]

I do think the pale king would also just not have instincts to parent eithed

[serene belfry]

"I am a Daughter of Hallownest" that line made me yell but yea

[craggy smelt]

assassinated by steel bugs
(not really)

[serene belfry]

so the other tablets are presumably also for weavers that we never meet or are already dead

[nova sluice]

Yup

[edgy stone]

He seemed to have love for the hk but the hk was also never to live

The hollow knight was never a potential heir to the kingdom

[serene belfry]

hornet mentions something about verdania being destroyed by gms if im not mistaken maybe some other areas also

do we know why she did this

[edgy stone]

I really think pale king would never want an heir of any sort due to his natural desire to rule

[tardy dagger]

Any idea what the abandoned town is supposed to be

[edgy stone]

Which hornet kinda messes up

[craggy smelt]

an abandoned town

[nova sluice]

Nameless Town?

[craggy smelt]

which is to say, a town that was abandoned

[tardy dagger]

I think you just solved the game…

[tardy dagger]

dude…

[serene belfry]

i think the reason why that moment was important other than it showing the knight wasn't truly hollow is that it was the first time the pale king felt or showed love to one of his kin

[tardy dagger]

Yeah wtv i forgot the name

i saw some people say its dirtmouth wich is probably the dumbest thing ive heard in a while

[serene belfry]

LMAO

this aint dark souls geography just wouldnt work out

[elfin niche]

I think he was poisoned by regret.

[tardy dagger]

W blasphemous pfp

[craggy smelt]

obviously it's not
Dirtmouth has a name

[tardy dagger]

Dear god…

[serene belfry]

you might be on to something

[fair zealot]

i think it's just a bit of worldbuilding to show that there is/was a world outside of what we see (unlike how the pale king would want us to believe)

[serene belfry]

My penitence is far from over!

[nova sluice]

Ye, just wanted to make sure
All we know is that it was a settlement and the ones there got afraid of GMS.
I have the log here somewhere....here!

[tardy dagger]

i think we should call it quits on figuring out the lore because ladies and gentlemen we just solved it

[serene belfry]

okay wait

[amber thicket]

the surface, land right outside of pharloom

Something about bugs in general is that they usually live underground. but i'm pretty sure this is actually the surface

[serene belfry]

where is this town i dont think ive been there

[craggy smelt]

above the Cradle

[tardy dagger]

now this is going to sound schizophrenic, what if quirrel came from this town

[serene belfry]

i thought you guys were talking abt the mossy one in marrow/mosshome

[amber thicket]

super duper up

[tardy dagger]

Im just reaching here

[serene belfry]

any like important lore there?

[tardy dagger]

Not that i know off

[nova sluice]

It could be understood as
"We came from far away and the place we found got some friends seduced and they vanished"

[craggy smelt]

depends on what you consider important
it was a very melancholy moment

[amber thicket]

sort of. do you care for spoilers?

well, light spoilers

[tardy dagger]

there has to be more to it

[amber thicket]

not much is up there

[tardy dagger]

They wouldnt just add a random ass town right

[serene belfry]

i just booted up the game and am going there if its something better for me to see for myself then no

[craggy smelt]

it seems like the Weavers lured away people from the town, and it eventually failed and was swallowed up by the wastes

[tardy dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/albert-einstein-lol-think-be-smart-think-wise-gif-8735407

[tardy dagger]

Perhaps

Perhaps its modelled after ari gibsons hometown…

[amber thicket]

it's only kinda cool if you care about the lore

nothing big up there no super grand reveal

[tardy dagger]

now hear me out on this one chat

do we know ari gibson is a human?

what if he’s a bug.

[fair zealot]

there's ||a talking mushroom|| up there if you do a certain quest first

[tardy dagger]

do we know his dualogue

dialogue

[fair zealot]

well yeah you can go talk to him

[serene belfry]

ok how do i get there

[tardy dagger]

Well no because im too lazy

[neat sandal]

path of pain

[serene belfry]

all the paths to cradle are kinda blocked off and terminus pod doesnt lead anywhere that les me go there

[serene belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-dies-gif-21956120

[nova sluice]

Honestly...Maybe he doesn't even remember where he came from

[fair zealot]

choral chambers hallway to the right of cogwork core, small gap in ceiling where there are crumbling rocks

[tardy dagger]

Ay tound it

[tardy dagger]

My fav npc

[somber storm]

it's not path of pain not even close

[tardy dagger]

Path of pain sucked ass

[amber thicket]

there's one open. it's the one you see on the map except it's not exactly 1 to 1 with the game, so you might hit a ceiling but there is an opening in that area

[neat sandal]

seriously. go up there is extremely hard

[serene belfry]

my sincerest thanks

[tardy dagger]

Yk the whole path of pain ravage is rly annoying

We just call any slightly harder then average parkour section path of pain

[amber thicket]

mario is kinda like the path of pain

[fair zealot]

tbh we should just call it last test of fitness

[amber thicket]

donkey kong country is kinda like the path of pain

[whole hawk]

I wonder if there's some meta narrative going on with the lost areas? The coral area, Carmelita, and even parts of Verdania were some of the earliest stuff we saw of Silksong especially in the first trailer.

Like maybe TC originally "scrapped" these areas but brought them back but in the form of memories in the game.

Like they disappeared because the devs literally wanted them to disappear during development.

[serene belfry]

how do i get there i got to gms arm

and got the last silk art but cant fnd anywhere to go from there

[nova sluice]

Path of Pain was more hidden I suppose so maybe a lot of people didn't experience it
For Nameless Town we have mushroom hunts about it so it's somewhat easier to find

[amber thicket]

there's another place where you can silk jump

[tardy dagger]

Okay listen

[amber thicket]

you should see an opening on the map

[serene belfry]

i ahdnt explored the area yet so the map is empty lmao

[nova sluice]

In many places across the map when you see light coming from the ceiling you are hinted to try SilkJump there

[amber thicket]

show

[frank mesa]

how is Hornet able to speak with the pharloom bugs without any translation?

[tardy dagger]

The herald (mushroom) says this in bone bottom “crossed weapons sleeping of course, but shaped unlike any seen before, to travel underneath is one thing, but travelling up above may require a different sorr of sight

[serene belfry]

just explored it jn and went back to bench

via beast melody

[tardy dagger]

Coincidence i think not

[nova sluice]

(Weaver thought her the old language of Pharloom)

[amber thicket]

oh. the opening's not on the map but there is a place you can silk jump in here. should be a beam of light under the place where you're supposed to silkjump

[nova sluice]

At the very top where GmS is

Are you looking for Nameless Town?

[tardy dagger]

Mushroom is hinting at something

[amber thicket]

i guess there aren't many languages in the HK universe lol

[nova sluice]

I would advise first to get the mushroom quest so you don't have to do this twice

[amber thicket]

once you get to the top you unlock a shortcut

[nova sluice]

I meant the whole thing, including cradle and etc

[green yoke]

Which do y'all think hurt more:

• The forcible implantation of the hearts of three of the strongest beings in Pharloom's history

• Yarnaby's Extricator

[amber thicket]

oh lol

[plucky jolt]

She afirms to know a Lot of different languages during his talk with the Ant merchant

And still she doesn't speak his language in particular

So his dialogue is all +$+$+@(-$ stuff

[amber thicket]

i gotta go with yarnaby

[elfin niche]

It's probably her native language.

[amber thicket]

wait there's an ant merchant???

[elfin niche]

The language the Pharloom bugs speak will have been spoken by Herrah

[plucky jolt]

The one that sells the boomerang

[elfin niche]

She probably actually learnt the Hallownest language.

[amber thicket]

damn i missed that. does he sell a silk spool thing?

[nova sluice]

The Snail thing probably hurts your soul, your memories and your body while Yarnaby is fully concentrated pain into your body, that must have been pure bug hell

[frank mesa]

My theory is that Hallownest and Pharloom had trade and diplomatic relations. So Hornet could've been taught how to talk in Pharloom's language(s) from either her parents or tradesmen. But I don't have much evidence to support this

[plucky jolt]

No, just 2 curveclaw and fractured mask

[amber thicket]

i think it would be yarnaby cus physical pain ESPECIALLY like that doens't just go away instantly. The Shaman ritual however might hurt a lot but i imagine there was no more pain when she finally got transported into her own memory

[elfin niche]

Fractured Mask is a gamechanger early though

[amber thicket]

oh wait. that shopkeeper dies in act 3 huh

[plucky jolt]

Since Hornet doesn't speak his language, his dialogues are like this

[nova sluice]

And she seems fine after waking up from the red memory

[plucky jolt]

And she afirms like "I know a lot of different languages, but I never heard yours..."

[amber thicket]

oh yeah i never saw that dialogue, makes sense though

[plucky jolt]

Yeah, this one

[neat sandal]

so why she can talk to ant queen

[amber thicket]

yeah i never saw him and then went to that area and got those tools in act 3

[frank mesa]

this is kinda like in HK how you meet Mr Mushroom without his charm and his dialogue is like this too

[pallid shoal]

Ant Queen probably also knows different languages, as she unified the tribes.

[nova sluice]

And on SS Hornet can freely speak with him

Hornet's knowledge range is constantly underestimated by the players on many angles

[whole hawk]

The Knight had zero education. Literally just an empty headed lad.

[plucky jolt]

I mean, she's literally a demigod who lived time asf

Makes sense she knows this much XD

[pallid shoal]

The vessels are very, very old too. The Knight left Hallownest and returned so we don’t really know what they did in that period of time before their return, but they’re children of Higher Beings as well. Hornet knows a lot about different beings too, as she had three different queens to raise her or teach her things.

[craggy smelt]

it's frustrating that Hornet seems to know every damn thing but doesn't tell us hardly anything

[pallid shoal]

I am surprised she didn’t talk more about her father, other than calling him a fool. But maybe she was not with him at all and only knows him by name.

[craggy smelt]

she doesn't think much of him
but I wonder if her capacity for growth and transformation comes more from her wyrm side than anything

[nova sluice]

I would love to know if the White Lady on Red Memory is a version that Hornet created to have a talk or if the WL actually manifested there on her own.
I don't think we know for sure but it's nice either way

[whole hawk]

Definitely her wyrm blood.

[craggy smelt]

I think it was really her, appearing through the memory
hard to tell with gods

[pallid shoal]

At least White Lady appeared in that state where she diminished herself, we see Hornet with a "pale" cloak and then her regular red cloak, so I assume it could be both. She looks into a memory but also is aware enough to call for White Lady in the present.

[craggy smelt]

it seems to start off as a memory, like the others, but then the dialogue box changes and she's talking with Hornet like its the present
Hornet having new perspective on the decisions that the pale beings made in the past

[midnight vault]

She speaks to Karmelita pretty fine. idk maybe he is just an outcast for speaking weirdly

[pallid shoal]

White Lady does have some guilt, for sure.

[plucky jolt]

More likely to @pallid shoal answear to this

[nova sluice]

From the PaleStag we know that memories can be deceiving and for someone as old as Hornet she might not remember things perfectly (herrah's face I suppose)
So it's very reasonable she created her own version of WL to have internal monologues with

But also...HBs are weird and can do a bunch of impossible things

[pallid shoal]

The Pale King could see into the future… how clear? Unsure. The whole thing with the Void, Hornet and the Vessels as well as the Dream Realm could use some expending.

[nova sluice]

I'm curious now, what happens if you die inside the Red Memory? I'm guessing you just start from the last memory but idk

[whole hawk]

I feel like a higher being's precognition gets completely screwed when other higher beings get involved.

[fair zealot]

i don't think you can?

[nova sluice]

Is the hud missing?

Ah, ye, "immortal inside your mind", a very Duma's thing to do

[pallid shoal]

In the dream world, when you died you were simply awake back into the "real" world. With PK, whether he died or transformed, no clue.

I wonder if dream realms or memories could be linked.

[glossy badge]

How sure are we that higher beings have true precognition? Isn’t it more likely they can just plan ahead and such? Being old god-like beings and the lime

[nova sluice]

I actually have this on my list of things to try on Steel mode

[pallid shoal]

Also whatever is going on with nightmares.

[pallid shoal]

Courage to you!

[glossy badge]

Except PK’s physical body was in the white palace, as the knight isn’t it implied you just pass out on the ground?

[pallid shoal]

He is in the dream realm.

[midnight vault]

PK seemingly got eaten inside out by the void unless he cast off his shell again

[pallid shoal]

The white palace just vanished so did the king, and you have to dream nail a guard to go into the dream realm of the white palace and the king…

[whole hawk]

I mean the mushrooms and Bardoon confirm as much.

[glossy badge]

I remember the mushroom one, but not Bardoon’s statement on the matter

[pallid shoal]

Void shenanigans or he chose to do something else to escape from it or the guilt.

[nova sluice]

I'm just gonna make a backup save to try. During Khan i died permanently but maybe it's an odd case there for some reason

[pallid shoal]

In Silksong I’m not sure if dreams kill you on steel mode, in HK I think the dream world was safe? I’d have to check again.

[whole hawk]

Don't mistake. I am not a wyrm... Ohrm... Too small, I am. Too many limbs. No foresight like those old things

[glossy badge]

Thank you! But that seems to just imply PK has it, not other higher beings

[nova sluice]

Ye, I'm going to test on Green and Karmelia tonight

[pallid shoal]

Poor Green.

[whole hawk]

Well yeah never said otherwise. I just think the influence of being of equal power to him can mess with that precognition.

[glossy badge]

(other wyrms too I suppose)

[glossy badge]

Ah sorry, thought your message earlier implied you thought other HBs had it too

[nova sluice]

It's also kinda funny to use Architect on Khan since it's a partially instanced room and the silk art doesn't work, you just lose all your shards

[glossy badge]

Did I miss a boss? Khan?

[whole hawk]

Coral Tower boss.

[pallid shoal]

Coral King.

[nova sluice]

Crab crab

[glossy badge]

Ahhh I forgot his full name

[nova sluice]

Crust King Khann iirc

[glossy badge]

Yup, remember now

[nova sluice]

He is...hmm...not very memorable

[pallid shoal]

Also…. Mhhh. Khan to me looks somewhat similar to that dead fool in HK.

[fair zealot]

very easy compared to the rest of his tower lol

[glossy badge]

This for sure

[pallid shoal]

But maybe too far.

[glossy badge]

First tried once I finally got to him, but eh

[midnight vault]

Khann is still better than Nyleth

[nova sluice]

I would love to have a huge 15+floor tower with shortcuts every 3

[fair zealot]

nah nyleth is also easy but at least more interesting

[craggy smelt]

hmm, the God Tamer was original going to be the Lobster Lancer, riding a giant lobster
maybe there's a... crustacean connection...

[steady prawn]

why hereh look llike tha? bih more beetle than weeaver

[nova sluice]

I barely saw Nyleth since my army of purple cogflies and drills demolished her

[midnight vault]

The only good thing about Nyleth is that Seth is outside her memory otherwise she is just kind of uninteresting

[glossy badge]

Nyleth fascinates me to be honest. The silk-producing flowers around the map feel significant alongside her

[nova sluice]

I can't wait for the Radiant form of many bosses that died way too farm on the main story

[serene belfry]

ok

[midnight vault]

I think I like Karak more for its environment. The contrast between the Coral and Desert is great

[serene belfry]

just did the abandoned townw what was the point of that

[pallid shoal]

Maybe there is yeah, that’s interesting. So crab related stuff going on? Wouldn’t be surprised.

[serene belfry]

to reveal the extent of gms influence?

[whole hawk]

And both areas are the dedicated arena sections of the game found at the edge of the map

[nova sluice]

Lore, achievments, Mushroom

[glossy badge]

Sort of Dartmouth

[nova sluice]

Journal entry

[serene belfry]

WHAT MUSHROOM IS THERE

[pallid shoal]

And also with different arena fights.

[serene belfry]

FUCK I JUST LEFTTT

[nova sluice]

There is a shortcut but also you need the mushroom quest

[fair zealot]

yeah tbh i kinda lowkey got sad whenever i finally beat a difficult boss because it meant i didn't get to practice them anymore 😔

[muted lantern]

Can you save pilby?

[serene belfry]

ok ill go back one day

anyway i meant lore wise it feels like path of pain big struggle for at first seemingly underwhelming reveal

[nova sluice]

I'm fine with it since a godhome boss room is almost a certainty in a couple of years

[midnight vault]

I want Godhome to come back so I can just fight Karmelita again

[pallid shoal]

I didn’t see my Pilby dead… because I discovered that from the Stag Station. Some people say they are alive if you talk to them enough and that you might find them in Pilgrim’s rest or somewhere else, but I’d have to check for me. There is no corpse.

[fair zealot]

"big struggle" i did it with hunter crest

[nova sluice]

Not that it's comparable but how long on HK it took for the Godhome dlc?

[serene belfry]

it didnt take long like around 30 minutes ig but like its meant to be hard ig

they want it to be hard of reach

[fair zealot]

it's last test of fitness but certainly no path of pain

[whole hawk]

I wonder if that's a good enough explanation of who Lord Fool is. Seems like Khan are maybe modelled after Mongolian nomadic tribes. So they probably spread across the world and setup their respective garrisons.

[muted lantern]

Pilby is killed when skull tyrant wrecks bone bottom, his body is at the bottom of the moss region because they have a funeral and throw him down there

[serene belfry]

for sure

but anyway lore wise what was the point of that

[steady prawn]

the everbloom is a delicate flower right?

[pallid shoal]

But not everyone has them dead that is what I said. I never had the funeral thing nor did I ever see their corpse because I went another way.

[serene belfry]

ruling higher being doesn't affect shit outside of its kingdom is smth we kinda new already

[fair zealot]

to show that civilization existed outside of gms' influence i'd say

[whole hawk]

Everblood is the delicate flower yes.

[pallid shoal]

They have some connections, so I wonder if there is a sort of higher being or bigger entity they respect and do all these fights for too.

[whole hawk]

It also confirms that we STILL don't know where Zemer and the Everbloom came from.

[fair zealot]

but also wasn't entirely outside of her influence because pharloom did supposedly "seduce" the residents of the town over time with its song

[serene belfry]

also like

his name is khan

when i first saw that+the statues it was pretty clear did note how similar his mask looked to lord fool yea

[whole hawk]

So Zemer's homeland is another unknown +1 kingdom that might still exist alongside City of Steel.

[serene belfry]

"From the depths" "Those who weave claim us" "We went far" "Sweet whispered promises" "Now only the wind" "Seduced friends"

[fair zealot]

yeah the world of hollow knight is definitely nowhere near as lifeless as the pale king would want us to believe

[pallid shoal]

At first I was like: Grey Mourner (Zemer) could come from Greymoor but to me it’s not quite true anymore. Something is missing.

[serene belfry]

for sure

[whole hawk]

Though to be fair every other kingdom so far seem like total shithole compared to Hallownest. They were only lucky they didnt have to deal with the Radiance.

[fair zealot]

hallownest was kinda a "shithole" too no?

[whole hawk]

Hallownest had a proper bonafide golden age.

[pallid shoal]

It was, sort of after Radiance threw her temper tantrum.

[fair zealot]

my understanding is pharloom did too

[pallid shoal]

…Pharloom was quite abusive of those in the underworks. Have you seen their rosary system?

[calm chasm]

in Hallownest PK raised the intelligence of bugs in his kingdom
so what happens in Pharloom
is PK a fucking liar

[whole hawk]

Nah. Pharloom was always an industrial hellscape that outright killed its ecosystems.

[serene belfry]

after they were taken do we know what happened to them?

[fair zealot]

they seem to have died

[serene belfry]

real

[pallid shoal]

Pharloom was hiding the ugly under the citadel.

[calm chasm]

where is this?

[fair zealot]

except perhaps the last one here is widow who was quite literally staked to service?

[serene belfry]

the placing of the tablets seems to indicate they all reached GMS

[serene belfry]

cradle pre act 3

[serene belfry]

the first one kind of makes me think of phantom also

[fair zealot]

well phantom is lace's sister (a silk being), not a weaver

[serene belfry]

but perhaps not cause apparently phantom is like lace

[serene belfry]

yea

[whole hawk]

Also about this thing. Pious Isamor in the Whispering Vaults. It seems to hint that the Citadel wasn't ALWAYS like that.

From the dialogue it seems to say that the Citadel was more like an ascetic monk's temple. Made of plain stone and the pilgrims wore plain garbs.

[serene belfry]

Stay vigil... ys, for tho... wretched pilgrims... dare relen... their base desi... Left unpunish... thin our pure chorus... eir seductive sin... pread like flame...

[whole hawk]

Very humble and buddhist in nature.

So I reckon the Weavers subverted that religion and converted the old citadel into what it is now.

[serene belfry]

what is the role of the pilgrims actually what does isamor not liek them also

[serene belfry]

seems to be against the materialism and base desires of something that say the city of tears upper class indulged in

.ilgrim!... ast aside those many sinful hopes for rest ...d reward... remain pure... within our midst... sk for nothing!

See... Citadel's simple stone, bare an... dorned. See h...ain our garb, how sparse o... meal. Know that... excess is sin!

Pilgrims... all...

Siblings... serving...
Devout... unwavering...
All... are equal...

[whole hawk]

Yes it's basically a mix of real world asceticism practiced by hindu/buddhist faiths.

[pallid shoal]

Loam (The poor thing on the treadmill) also says that if they keep working their reward is more work, but they had a sort of promise to be promoted to see the city above. Which is sad.

[serene belfry]

reminiscent of the russian orthodox church esp around the time of the russian revolution

sugarcandy mountain type shit

[pallid shoal]

There is a whole thing about the city being holy and something about sins in the underworks. But some were born and forced into that task.

[serene belfry]

i actually havent met loam also elaborate?

its also clear how inhumane it is that the way the gears work relies on npcs running on treadmills (and in turn the gears run the whole city it seems)

[whole hawk]

Which is actually devilish if you think about it because this explains why rosary beads became the currency of Pharloom.

An old non-materialistic ascetic culture got subverted by (maybe the weavers) and converted their objects of faith into monetary temptations.

[pallid shoal]

If you see the journal entry for some characters in the underworks as well as that weird machine you find at some point, they are overworked and never allowed a break. Ranks are formed out of who is tougher and meaner, and some just grew sick and exhausted. I think if you play the needolin, or somewhere else in the lore one asks something like: "Have we sinned to deserve such fate and this is our punishment?"

They just work and keep working until they get sick or die, with a fake promise they’ll reach the holy city above. Loam believes that so, hence why the poor thing never stops. Because he believes a break is failure.

[serene belfry]

i love this line

[pallid shoal]

…And also benches costing rosary every time you want to rest.

[serene belfry]

new level of anti-homeless architecture

[muted lantern]

How does one save pilby

[pallid shoal]

Apparently talk to them enough times until they say they are going to go soon.

[vivid kernel]

I thought Lace freed Hornet

[pure zodiac]

She did want to avoid silk getting Hornet

[muted lantern]

I talked to him constantly but he got mauled by the skull tyrant

[pure zodiac]

So they died because i was a bad pilgrim partner okay cool no guilt at all

[pallid shoal]

Some say you had to talk to them enough until they revealed their name or was gone, before the skull tyrant quest.

I never saw them dead so I will look for them eventually. I’m stuck in Mount Fay for now though.

[sharp hawk]

Yea I did that and found them at pilgrims rest, then they gave me their name there. Didn't even realise they could die

[pallid shoal]

I just remember I visited bone bottom and the stag was all shaky and I wondered why and the skull was just bonking its head against the station. I had no funeral or no flying and dead NPC.

Then to Pilgrim’s rest I will go.

[vivid kernel]

Is there anything you are locked out of if Pillby dies

[pallid shoal]

Joy.

[vivid kernel]

Fair enough

[elder thicket]

wtf pillby can die lol?

[vivid kernel]

Yeah he died hard in my game

Skull tyrant mauled his little body

Like a rag doll

[elder thicket]

OH WAIT

I thought you were talking ab plinney lmaooooo

No yeah he got cooked HARD

[vivid kernel]

Flattened like a pancake

[pallid shoal]

One thing I wonder is how did the dice bug die in Blasted Steps. And the poor ant merchant who was apparently maybe sick and killed.

[fair zealot]

after you get the pale steel needle upgrade plinney goes outside and asks you to strike him down with it

[elder thicket]

And they couldnt even remember his name before they threw him in a hole like come on

[fair zealot]

ant merchant was assassinated by other ants

[elder thicket]

bro deserved better

[pallid shoal]

Lovely. I loved their design. Shame.

[vivid kernel]

That ant merchant thing was fucked

I was like okay I’m killing them all

[winged trench]

Thank you plinney for making me pay you 2 billion rosaries for nail upgrades after i literally saved your towns lives and am bringing you shop resources regularly

[pallid shoal]

Well they had some spots on their body which made me think maybe they were sick?

[elder thicket]

plinney is why pharlooms economy crashed im sure of it

[fair zealot]

bro's gotta eat 😭

[fair zealot]

it seems some ants rebel against the tribe and paint their body with white spots or something

[winged trench]

The spots seem to be outcasts / those not effected by the haunting

[pallid shoal]

In Hollow Knight bugs eat other bugs but especially if they’re not as advanced in mind than they are. Which sometimes makes me think of anthropomorphic characters having pets or eating still.

[pallid shoal]

Would have loved to have more time with them.

Hornet did say these flower bugs could be nice pets. Or decorative things. She also says something about those in the cold.

[vivid kernel]

“Bone Marrow”

[serene belfry]

lmao

[vivid kernel]

Man, Fandom’s websites suck. So many ads.

[serene belfry]

the people on fextra doing jackshit tho so i have to use it for now

[timber phoenix]

Do you guys think that the tbc at the end means in the dlc or in their next game?

[fair zealot]

it's a mister mushroom thing

[timber phoenix]

Ah that's only for that ending? Bruh

[fair zealot]

yeah it's the same in hollow knight

[pallid shoal]

There is a hollow knight wiki out of fandom.

[timber phoenix]

I still feel there's something missing in the true ending and the dlc will expand on that

[serene belfry]

i hope we get to see more of the pk or thk somehow

[wary plover]

Why doesn't the pinmaster hammer the needle like the nail smith, I was hoping he would go bonk bonk bonk and fix the needle up

[timber phoenix]

Because the needle doesn't need reforging like the nail did, just polishing and sharpening

makes sense given who gave the needle to hornet in the first place

[serene belfry]

yeah the needle was mostly fine the nail was like cracked af iirc

would love to know where the hk nail came from tho

[wary plover]

The nail smith

[maiden meteor]

Needle is made from some super steel that hive could make apparently

[timber phoenix]

I think it was just the common weapon of hallownest and the knight just found one or was given one

[maiden meteor]

Maybe it was standard vessel equipment

I imagine Vessels were equipped to deal with outside threats if need comes

Basically last line of defense if Black Egg is breached

[amber thicket]

what enemy is this

[serene belfry]

one of the underworks ones

[amber thicket]

ty

[serene belfry]

forgot which

[amber thicket]

pretty sure they're siblings

[nova sluice]

To be fair the HK Nail had to be mass produced for the hundreds of knights while the Neelde was made for Vespa's protegee

[somber temple]

im in act III rn, if i get the witches crest will it still ruin the true ending for me?

[amber thicket]

no

do you know what happens when you get the witch crest?

[serene belfry]

basically seemes like the citadel has a omelas situation going on

[somber temple]

no but i dont mind spoilers

[serene belfry]

except its alot more people than one child

[amber thicket]

ok basically it kinda fucks you up then you gotta do a whole sidequest to be not fucked up anymore. during this sidequest you can't heal or use tools or change your crest

[somber temple]

does that still happen in act 3?

[amber thicket]

yeah i just did it

[cursive sinew]

Yes

Cant do the endinv with it though

Because you cant fight Silk now

[timber pond]

They have to Expand on The Steel City because the chracter that was cut, Steel Assasin sharpe, was a bcaker chracter.

[somber temple]

oh okay, also how is the hunters crest better than the witches crest if it has 3 blue tool slots and also when u heal it deals damage to enemys?

ik this isnt lore stuff mb

[modest coyote]

Because the witch crest can’t heal

[timber pond]

Mabye THK is the playable character in The steel City as a DLC that will then turn into another game😂

[somber temple]

oh.....

[modest coyote]

It can heal but it uses life drain

[cursive sinew]

Ok but my theory rn is every place mentioned there is actually in Hallownest

[modest coyote]

Which is obviously worse than a regular heal

[somber temple]

so i heal normally but it takes 1 heart till i die? or what

[modest coyote]

No so if there are enemies around you

Ou can drain their health using a heal

[cursive sinew]

Blackbarrens lack an explanation but it caaan be Ancient Basin or something

[modest coyote]

But if there are no enemies around you cannot heal

[somber temple]

so if its a boss how many hearts does it heal?

[modest coyote]

Idk

[timber pond]

im pretty sre they mention hallownest with a diffrent name Something like "the plae city" or "city of the wyrm" or something

[amber thicket]

think thorms of agony except it activates when you focus and only heals you if it hits enemies

[cursive sinew]

Where the fuck

[desert tundra]

huh

[somber temple]

also since u 100% silksong how do i get back to the abyss so i can get the item that shows my percentage cause i escaped the abyss

[somber temple]

so no matter the enemy it heals 3 hearts normally right?

[amber thicket]

idk unfortunately

[somber temple]

i might still get the witch crest it probably is needed for 100%

[timber pond]

Its one of the "edicts" like this that says "send to the city of the Wyrm"

[cursive sinew]

What the hell

Isnt that like a big deal

[timber pond]

yeah probably

[cursive sinew]

But where though :/

[timber pond]

trying to find it, but i distinctly remember it

[amber thicket]

i mean, we know other countries exist. same logic applies here right?

some pharloom people went on long journeys to capture all the weavers too

[nova sluice]

Maybe it's just a name
It's not like we have angels in Los Angeles

[cursive sinew]

Eh well this doesnt break my theory that City of Steel = City of Tears. Sandsea Waste = Howling Peaks or around there. Blackbarren MAYBE ancient basin

[pallid shoal]

Angeles, angeless, no angels.

[nova sluice]

Aside from those ofc

[amber thicket]

wait where are these places

i haven't been to any of that

[cursive sinew]

The places are mentioned in The Cradle in a secret lore room with logs detailing weaver captures

[amber thicket]

oh. well that would make a lot of sense

[cursive sinew]

And Weavers were at one point in Hallownest and even helped make some seals iirc so I personally believe these places are in Hallownest

[nova sluice]

We can see from Lifeblood that different cities/tribes call things differently. We don't have an united taxonomy on this world

So ye, many things like that are possible for sure

[amber thicket]

yeah that makes sense

[wary plover]

I think it's so funny they fight with nails needles and pins and not actual weapons like hammers or swords

[cursive sinew]

Also I doubt TC would throw in more area names unless tied to planned DLC or they started considering another sequel

[amber thicket]

i don't think i know enough about the game to form theories yet lol. needa wait for that mossbag video, way too much to keep track of in this game

[elfin niche]

I doubt all the Weavers fled to Hallownest.

They probably fled in a bunch of different directions.

[amber thicket]

it's a neat detail. bugs are small after all

[elfin niche]

I can buy one of those locations being Hallownest, but it seems a bit much to suggest they all are.

[nova sluice]

Most bugs don't naturally produce hammers while many produce needles and nails, so the idea comes naturally to them I would say

[elfin niche]

Makes the world seem very small.

[wary plover]

If hornet fought with a bug spray she would be undefeatable then?

[elfin niche]

I don't see why. TC throw in things that aren't fully explained all the time/

It helps make the world seemer bigger and more mysterious.

Like the Abyss Creature in HK still remains entirely unexplained.

[wary plover]

GMS? tsssss, Absolute radiance? TSssssss. Lost lace? tsssssss

[cursive sinew]

Eh. I think adding more names that are only ever mentioned in a single lore tablet is kinda dumb honestly

[timber pond]

Im wrong its the Choral comandment sent with the Devout to capture hornet found it in the Script

[cursive sinew]

And really you can interpret this as them giving us some official HK location names

[wary plover]

I actually prefer this large expansive world where not everything is explained, if they did explain everything it would be pulpish and more like triple A

[timber pond]

Kingdom of the white wyrm and the steel city are not the same place then lol

[cursive sinew]

Welp. Says Kingdom though

[nova sluice]

Well, there is already a BlackWyrm and now a WhiteWyrm

[wary plover]

wtf I've never heard of either of these

[elfin niche]

Yeah completely agree.

[amber thicket]

well, gms and lace aren't bugs

[cursive sinew]

White Wyrm is 2 words Blackwyrm is 1

[nova sluice]

White Defender's journal

iirc

[serene belfry]

what does this mean

[wary plover]

Radio I absolutely adore your profile pic and I just want to let you know how happy it makes me everytime you send a message

[serene belfry]

most likely will

[timber pond]

Steel assasin sharpe is a backer chracter that is not in this game, therefore he must be added in a piece of hollow knight content at some point

[cursive sinew]

Hey I am all for this if it happens but like

[elfin niche]

A measure is a sequence of bells.

[jolly bronze]

So are there any current theories as to how the Mist exactly functions? Why is it like how it is and where it came from?

[timber pond]

I mean Seth was a chracter forom someone at the make a wish foundation

[cursive sinew]

They can also make it a steel soul character

[elfin niche]

So it says: when the big bell tolls, reply with thirty sequences

[cursive sinew]

Phantom?

[timber pond]

so Team cherry always add backer content no matter how long it takes

[wary plover]

Isn't it just a natural byproduct of the putrification of the land?

[serene belfry]

if they are im gonna missing out cause im not fucking doing steel soul for silksong lmao

[elfin niche]

each of those sequences consists of four peals of the bell named Smokerock and eight of the bell called Sweetsmelt

following which the workers show a display of fealty

[serene belfry]

it came from the mountain

[wary plover]

I hope there is another game after Silksong, it might become really niche afterwards because I know Silksong put alot of people off, but I need more lore for this world

[serene belfry]

lets see after the dlcs

[cursive sinew]

If they make another metroidvania I dont see why it cant be more HK universe stuff

[timber pond]

We already have steel soul characters who talk about the masters and hornet eluds to how their society works, because these chracters are so similar to Jiji and Jhinn from the first game: we know that nither are from hallownest and they serve "the masters" who are like shades but "less complete"

[serene belfry]

i so want a return to hallownest dlc or smth where you can see ome of the areas after hk ended or smth

[wary plover]

I don't know how they can top a looming citadel or a radiance infested kingdom.

[serene belfry]

and the best things about silksong imo were the stuff that had to do with the first game personally like red memory was the best sequence

on its own already been discussed here i feel silksong while still really strong and different in quite a few ways from og hk is weaker in the story department

[timber pond]

Steel City Seems to be the only Noatble Place that we know nothing about.

[cursive sinew]

The issue is that one of those steel soul creatures was in the coral area which was cut. You cant tell anymore.

We also never heard sbout em past 2020 no?

[wary plover]

I think herrah knew of the pale kings folly and the futility of trying to seal away the radiance, but I think she wanted to give hornet a chance at life

[timber pond]

Its story is fare more direct and we reveal a lot of mysteries we have been wondering. what do you mean its lesser? mabye you miss the Mystique? hard to keep that with a chracter who talks.

[cursive sinew]

I love thst hornet talks ngl

[timber pond]

yeah but they are backer chracters. its very strange they would just be cut when they were one of the first things teased.

[wary plover]

Did the hive simply fall because the queen died of old age?

[timber pond]

Like i said, Seth got in and hes a Make a Wish foundation request

[cursive sinew]

That moment in the abyss where she straight up told lace how she is "the daughter of hallownest" was abshawlute cinema

[cursive sinew]

Wasnt there several backer things that never made it into HK?

[timber pond]

Yeah but some of them got in here.

i Belive they will use backer chracters that havent been used in time.

[brave raven]

Silksong has a much more better and direct history simply because Hornet speaks. Also, the world feels alive and you can really see what everything and everyone was. what I don't understand is why most of the history and the world is behind giant walls that are not even comparable to HK difficulty. I like the fact that it is your reward, yeah, but a lot of people that really just wanted to enjoy the world and the history are not going to be able of doing so by first hand!!!!!!!

[timber phoenix]

I have a question about the nature of granny silk. ||Is she an artificial higher being? Why was the citadel trying to abduct foreign weaver candidates? To try to make them the new queen by absorbing the silk from gms? So basically the bad ending is the ending the citadel always wanted?||

[cursive sinew]

Also it would be very guh if hornet talked in the first game but not here

[green yoke]

Nah, they're abducting Weavers because the original ones all ran after sealing GMS. Now she needs them to bind Lace properly

I believe is the very summarized answer

[wary plover]

I feel like there's a big bad in the world of hk that's creating these amalgamations of life. Radiance, and gms.

[timber pond]

Shes a pale being, and i think it might be something GMS wants to keep her life going? absorb and dominate.

[timber phoenix]

I need to reread a lot of lore entries

[wary plover]

Yes

[serene belfry]

it might be the ending i felt just as a boss lace and gms were a bittt underwhelming

despite the fact that we have a mc now with emotions who speaks i didn't get the same emotional impact as i got from scenes in the first game like the birthplace climb, when the hk started stabbing itself, the sheer vibes of resting grounds etc

the closest things for me were the cogwork dancers and the red memory the latter of which is carried by my nostalgia for the first game

this could be in part because i went into it with set expectations because of how i experienced the first game

[cursive sinew]

The abyss part was just as epic as anything HK imo

[green yoke]

I can honestly see where you're coming from with most of this but what vibes did resting grounds have that place was dull as hell

[cursive sinew]

The climb out of it was fucking sick as well

[serene belfry]

to each their own for me it was probably the music i liked alot

[serene belfry]

oh yeah for sure

rivals the ascension to kill the radiance

[wary plover]

I think the red memory is powerful because it felt like stepping into the unknown only to find yourself home, of finding out that a journey of solitude had always been one of accompaniment all along,

[timber pond]

Well, red memory is supposed to be the "clibming out of they abyss moment" . when Hornet dives and it zooms in on the pale flower its that "hollow knight stabing itself moment" for me, and IDK hornet just confirming how certain bugs function by explaining thier nature through diolouge is more than enough. Like Mr mushroom and mask maker

[serene belfry]

but like lace, gms and kinda nothing in the game compared for me to how climatic the final bosses of hk were and how it felt when hk started stabbing himself and you hear the vessel motif play and fighting the radiance and seeing a sky and sun for the first time in the whole game when your in dark caves for most of it

[green yoke]

Again I'm the opposite. The Hollow Knight and Radiance are not characters imo, they're just fights. There's little to no feeling I get from them, unlike Lace and GMS who have at least some personality that I can understand and see conveyed

[wary plover]

Because gms was a weak big bad on the surface, her connection to the exploitation of the land and tribes were never explicitly revealed in a way that was emotionally impactful, her emotional connection to lace was also sort of vague. Made weaker by the fact she had to share her antagonism with the abyss.

[serene belfry]

for sure i was looking for hallowneest/hk references the whole game, i even thought for a bit trobbio was gonna be grimmchild when i saw the poster and was dissapointed (wasn't a bad thing tho) because it felt like waking up in a distant future where everything is different none of the places or people you recognise are to be seen and the world has completely forgotten your old life/journey

[radiant vale]

also remember that GMS was heavily weakened because she basically lost her silk when evolving the weavers, which is what she wanted back

[serene belfry]

then the VOID happened in act 3 which was the first pointing at the screen moment then red memory and the stag station arrow happened then "I'm a daughter" of hallownest happened

[timber pond]

Congrats you know how it feels to be hornet😂

[radiant vale]

there might be a prime GMS fight in the future kinda how pure vessel exists in HK

[radiant vale]

even if it is only in godhome

[lusty estuary]

So have people managed to figure out a rough timeline for the events that precede silksong (yes or no is fine)

[wary plover]

Hk's most powerful character was the manic king, the failed king, the pale king. The radiance was never the antagonistic force, it was the unknown and the trail of desperation we got to trace

[serene belfry]

lmao

[timber pond]

hard to say

[green yoke]

I mean yeah. It's likely been a good few lifetimes for normal bugs since the end of Hollow Knight, and no one in Pharloom really knows about Hallownest. I never expected there to be much connection I suppose

[lusty estuary]

Hmmmmm

I guess it's gonna take time

[timber pond]

You have confirmed that you were imirsed in her chracter lul

[timber pond]

THe Choral commandment told the bugs to go to the kingdom of the White wyrm to get her so she gouldnt be that far

[serene belfry]

i agree with this, looking at it now its clearer but the radiance and the failed pale king were alot more compelling for me. kinda like a ds2 vendrick moment you wonder if you'll ever meet or fight him for the whole game as well and then you discover him silent dead and motionless on his throne with no explanation as to what happened

[wary plover]

The problem with Silksong is they should have really doubled down on the imposition that capitalism and greed has on the land. The citadel itself as a cogwork mechanism could have really been painted as this living waking monster consuming everything. But I think it felt more like a sideshow in the end

[serene belfry]

it would've been better if she had A BIT more active dialogue abt hallownest (i say a bit because she does have her fair share especially in the journals) because until act 3 i felt so disconnected

[timber pond]

The issue is that like, all the Mechanisims that ran it have either fled or are dead lol

[wary plover]

I think it would have been cool to discover the cogworks as the beating heart of it all, and then all the stories about the putrified land, the exploited artisans, the condemned tribes would have been tied together nicely

[serene belfry]

you've put this quite well again i agree at times it felt like they didn't know what they wanted to focus on and focusing on the citadel's evils and a "the citadel is its own monster" would've gone really well with the environmental storytelling that was already there but it got sidelined for the weaver lace and GMS stuff

which and i think is a hot take, i do not feel anything for or am attached to lace as a character at all

[wary plover]

I agree, I loved lace the most when she's manic laughing

But beside that she's nothing,

[timber phoenix]

Wait then I'm missing something crucial. What was the feud between weavers and gms? Weren't they on the same side?

[green yoke]

All the Weavernests talk about how they're planning to overthrow her and flee. Plus the (Act 3 spoilers) ||snare to catch her and put her in the Void|| was of Weaver design

[serene belfry]

i still didn't fully get what was going on with her character by the end whereas with sealed vessel even if you didn't do path of pain you have a general idea and even if you've figured out nothing its hard NOT to feel when the path of pain melody plays and he starts stabbing himself and slamming himself against the ground

[wary plover]

The weavers were plotting to runaway, in weave est atla they said here this far we escape her gaze so we can plan to run away.

[timber pond]

THe First Sinner Boss fight cutscene sorta tells us otherwise

[timber phoenix]

I'm dumb you're right

[timber pond]

THe first weaver litteraly said she lied to them about thier existnce lol

[serene belfry]

for the former can you reference might've missed this is it in the idols?

[serene belfry]

the text says "she called us divine... she called us her daughters" or smth like that and called that a lie so GMS perhaps fed them information that they were her her biological spawn and were of divine origin

[green yoke]

Rune harps and Needolin dialogue

[serene belfry]

the latter feels somewhat true the former definitely isn't though

[timber phoenix]

still it feels strange for a being made of silk to be against the race of bugs that are the closest to it

[timber pond]

Also this dialogue lol. we aint done with hornet i guess.

[serene belfry]

is this not in the game?

[green yoke]

I mean she made the weavers from otherwise unremarkable bugs. She then asserted control over them, leading to a rebellion

[serene belfry]

dont have all of them and gl for me to find specific needolin dialogue lmao

[timber pond]

its what mister mushroom says at the final encounter

[wary plover]

I think gms is someone who doesn't really know what it means to be a mother. I think that's her biggest irony, she was everything but a mother. With the citadel, with the weavers, with lace. She has this weird idea that her creations owe her for being given life. That's why I think it was quite powerful for me when she sacrificed herself for lace in the true ending. She finally knew what it meant to be a mother. She spent an eternity finding out what herrah knew in her blood.

[serene belfry]

could anyone put clearly for me what was the citadel and GMS' stance on the weavers (and in relation to each other) cause someone this morning i believe mentioned the idea that GMS began causing discord in the citadel because the citadel was hunting down the weavers (which i feel like could have a drop of truth but doesn't seem likely since the cages/capture seems to be done with the intent of being brought to GMS) like how the ones in the slab were presumably killed and/or tortured in imprisonment

[serene belfry]

it was basically her end of path of pain pale king moment

[elfin niche]

yeah Lace is a bit boring

[serene belfry]

this is most likely not a fault of the game but rather my own incompetence in figuring out the story at first but i didn't really piece that together when i saw it

[tawny basin]

Is Pharloom cult confirmed?

[serene belfry]

yes

[tawny basin]

Dam

Wait so it isn't the Kingdom of Pharloom, it's the cult of Pharloom

[serene belfry]

also again could just be me but hornet's dialogue alot of the time except for in the red memory segment felt quite bland and one dimensional at times which is why i like the hunter's journal cause her own notes are actually quite interesting and tell us alot more abt her personality

[serene belfry]

cult of the citadel fr

[serene belfry]

haent done mkister mushroom shit yet will another day

[tawny basin]

Chat can send me some screenshot of notes?

I can't afford the game my paycheck ain't here

MatPat doesn't pay ppl 😭

pls

is it just me? Why does grub look like a peashooter in this image?

[lusty estuary]

Well yeah im mainly talking about the timeline of like, when some of the weavers left from pharloom, when grand mother silk came into the picture, when the slumber happened and when weavers started being hunted down

[tawny basin]

Wait grandma silk hunted down the weavers?

[lusty estuary]

Idek lol I have no idea of the timeline of things

[serene belfry]

i looked at it mildly through a bloodborne lens in which (great game if you haven't played) great ones are obsessed with kids and lose their biological children and yearn for surrogates. while not stated in game the reason for this seems to be that they were so high up the evolution ladder that reproduction is no longer necessary and their physiology is so bizzare that having kids is too difficult and they all end up dead

one big question in the game is why would these higher beings that perforate reality itself desire something as base and sensory as children, and imo it might've been to show that these "higher beings" at their core alot of the time are no different from the beasts all the way at the bottom of the ladder

[lusty estuary]

I just know someone hunted them down, whether that's citadel bugs or mother silk I'm not sure

[timber pond]

The Masters might be a candidate.

[serene belfry]

imo the text at the beginning of the game, the constant use of "beast" alongside mentions of some powerful spider beings seems to be serving the same purpose

[tawny basin]

The masters, who are they?

[serene belfry]

GMS and possibly all these other higher beings in some ways are no different from the instinctual beastly bugs

[lusty estuary]

Is there some sort of document that contains all the game's dialogue organised

[tawny basin]

Grandmaster Bobby ficher

[timber pond]

They left Pharloom to run from GMS it seems, But i think they constructed the citadel to contain GMS before that with the "conductors".

[tawny basin]

I wished

[cursive sinew]

What is this? Steel soul exclusive content?

[timber pond]

yes

There is a quest

[cursive sinew]

Ah. I really should try that soon

[timber pond]

that Invovles a bug named "sula" that is very similar to Jiji from hollow knight

[serene belfry]

i forgot what it was maybe a tablet or the text at the beginning that talks about GMS form when in reality she has a beastly nature

pharloom's folly

lmao

[serene belfry]

They see your beauty, so frail and fine,

They see your peace, woven of faith and toil,

They forget your heart, bound in slumber and servitude,

When you wake they shall see your truth,

A beast's nature bare to all.

[tawny basin]

[timber pond]

IM assuming now, they are the "Masters of the Steel City" because theya re always related to the Steel heart Constructs.

[tawny basin]

Oh?

[timber pond]

Zi the Seer is the Steel soul jhinn equivalent in this game who talks about it alot

[serene belfry]

anyway tldr: this poem and how gms is portrayed throughout the game serves to erase the image of divinity and holiness that has been built around her and other higher beings imo

[timber pond]

They always come in pairs and they are always tasked with "Suffering in dying lands" Because Sula goes insane and wants out

These masters seem like tyrants who rule with iron* fists

[tawny basin]

Mhmm...

[tawny basin]

Iron*

[timber pond]

And They persecute anyone who missuses or summons void

[tawny basin]

Aka Pale king

[timber pond]

But Jhinn from the first game also says that The knight is "like the masters... but more complete"

So the masters themselves are some sort of shade, or use void?

[tawny basin]

Cause he is the chosen one?

[tawny basin]

Definitely

[tawny basin]

Kind of like guardians of the void or smth

[serene belfry]

actually:

This It... A rare It. Has not seen many, so vulnerable, but triumphant. Makes Jinn feel a thing... surprise?

Jinn misjudged... The It is not inferior. Perhaps... different? Different to Jinn. More complete? Different... like masters?

[timber pond]

No i think he just means "shades" are more "complete"

[timber pond]

ohh

[tawny basin]

The colour white is just a shade

[serene belfry]

[timber pond]

well never mind i misremembered the dialoge

[serene belfry]

i havent played stele soul in either game shame that some npcs and a boss seems to be locked behind it waiting for anywhere i can find the dialogue for the new npcs cause i wanna know the lore

[tawny basin]

We all play games for the lore

[timber pond]

Its nothing TOO special

[tawny basin]

I do lore research for games I don't even play

[serene belfry]

i watched a vid of the boss looks jackshit easy

[tawny basin]

Huggy wuggy survived

[serene belfry]

we all know garten of banban is the greatest game series of all time

[tawny basin]

I only know it's about a mother who lost a kid

[viscid ridge]

This might be frustration talking, but man do i hate double contact damage in the lost lace fight. I absolutely fucking hate accidentally bumping into her and nou a 5th of my health is gone. I'll come back when i beat her im close 🥲

[serene belfry]

idfk the lore all i know is the games are memably bad but funny bad at least

[tawny basin]

In like some Freddy pizza place

[serene belfry]

i hated it at first you die more to contact damage than anything but it made me have to change my dashing habits since she tps behind you out of the void liquid

[tawny basin]

Mate this is lore channel

I have no idea how the game works

[serene belfry]

which i liked HOWEVER what i didn't like was my eyes not being able to register where she was on screen cause of all the visual clutter

in phase 3 bro just blends into the background in attacks

[viscid ridge]

I help with the lore mostly but man i just wanted to get that out there cause i feel like the beastfly knocking my head against the wall for an hour 🤣

[tawny basin]

I get it😭

U see chess.com is just the same feeling

[serene belfry]

the beastfly fight was actually a great use of the technique called foreshadowing as it foreshadows the players when they encounter its second variant

or in your case lost lace

[tawny basin]

[serene belfry]

writers cooked hard here

believe it or not my hardest fight was the fucking brothers duo in deep docks

[tawny basin]

Who is beastfly?

[serene belfry]

took me 6 hours i gave up and went to sleep and won first try next morning

[serene belfry]

big boss variant of a tiny enemy (there's alot of these in act 1 lmao) thats really annoying cause it spawns powerful adds

[timber pond]

Essentialy Zi is overseeing a vasal called "Sula" and "Sula" can summon void like jiji does from hollow knight. sula is NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THIS because the masters wrath will be incured upon them both. But Sula wants to be free of them because of an immense burden that being their servant entails (involving seeing bugs die and suffer in lands that are decayed) . So he summons a void creature, but hornets all like "bro WTF thats just gonna kill you and everyone around you, Void can never be controlled, your champion is false". After beating the shit out of it, hornet feels pity for Sulas task (she eludes she knows what it is) . Lets sula go, then goes back to Zi and says "i let him go what are you gonna do about it?" And then Zi laments he will be hunted to the ends of the earth by the masters and hornet bites back with "That kind of freedom is better, its what he wanted, its hope against those masters" and then Zi ponders on this wondering if she too can have hope to live outside of the masters clutches.

[tawny basin]

Oh

[serene belfry]

and phase 2 is like "okay so maybe we should change timings, add new attacks, maybe change the color of the boss or smth? NO LETS SPAWN MORE ADDS"

[serene belfry]

and again uh this applies to ALOT of act 1 bosses on the first day of playing the game i was terrified that all the bosses were gonna be shit like that

[tawny basin]

Some sula servant thing

[serene belfry]

is that it?

[timber pond]

The disturbing part about this might be that Jhinn just straight up kill Jiji in hollow knight

[timber pond]

yeah, you get a steel soul exclsive tool called "grow stone" as a reward that auto regens shards

[serene belfry]

thats sick

[timber pond]

Aperently the steel constructs are born from them

[tawny basin]

What is this caliphate names bro??

[serene belfry]

lmao

[tawny basin]

Right I'm gonna go read up wiki for this game

Bye

[timber pond]

the wiki probably has nothing on it 😂

[serene belfry]

Yea

[drowsy mortar]

Me realizing the reason First Sinner was imprisoned in a SoB is because she was denied absolution of her crimes through death

She literally was not allowed to die wtf is this game lol

[timber pond]

But yeah its just more lore Constructed around the steel beings and the masters.

[serene belfry]

the masters sound so tyrannical pray we get some dedicated content to them maybe in a game or future dlc

and you gotta do the whole thing without dying or you get reset lmao

[timber pond]

Yeah they are bassicaly Power arbiters that have more knowledge than they should

[obtuse garden]

||why does the game give no explanation as to why groal has vengeful spirit||

[timber pond]

The funny thing is , the void tentacle boss dosent give you silk 😂

[drowsy mortar]

We were supposed to at one point and maybe still will

[ancient scroll]

it does

[serene belfry]

He ate a snail shaman

[drowsy mortar]

It kinda does?

[serene belfry]

that's the explanation and snail shaman is where we get spells in hk from

[drowsy mortar]

He ate a Shaman

[obtuse garden]

Where does it tell you that

[serene belfry]

Caretaker quesltine

[drowsy mortar]

Act 3

[timber pond]

IT does, he got it from the reward you get (the guy that died)

[drowsy mortar]

Actually wait no yeah late Act 2

When you’re prepping the snare for Act 3

[obtuse garden]

Ohh I see it’s interesting they moved a long way

[drowsy mortar]

Yeah he ate a Shaman and that Shaman had a soul that was powerful enough to help contain God

[serene belfry]

I know it doesn't work

But imagine if the shaman was actually the one from hk it'd be cool if they made it so that she travelled to pharloom ans got munched

[drowsy mortar]

Probably not these Shamans seem to have a lot darker motives

[edgy barn]

I mean it also needed the soul from two other shamans

[obtuse garden]

Imagine if one of the other bosses just dd spammed lol

[edgy barn]

And presumably the caretaker also put in his

[drowsy mortar]

Still powerful even on its own

It is weird that the trio survive the removal of their souls

But then die casting the Red Memory Ritual

[edgy barn]

Soul ≠ soul

[serene belfry]

^

[drowsy mortar]

I mean it’s still concentrated life energy

I guess they just weakened themselves?

[ancient scroll]

it's not literally their souls

don't they imply that its been passed down?

accumulating power

[drowsy mortar]

No that’s the hearts

[edgy barn]

Do the shamans have special dialogue if you get the verdania heart before the ritual?

[drowsy mortar]

The hearts are a power that has been passed down through generations of their respective tribes (Nyleth is kinda weird in this group, the flowers are not exactly “tribal”)

[tawny basin]

petition to put the character's species in the wiki

[drowsy mortar]

You can use additional hearts you find as substitutions iirc

I dunno if this also applies to Clockwork if you don’t activate Second Sentinel

[tawny basin]

Omg there IS a citadel

[drowsy mortar]

Yes lmao

[edgy barn]

The clockwork heart is kind of a completely different thing, I don't think it would count

[drowsy mortar]

The robots are very specifically people and the Sentinels were sort of a warrior tribe

So it would fit in theory

The robots are what Citadel residents strove to become when the Silk experiments failed

And actually…..

How old are the Architects? Do we know?

If they existed before GMS it’s possible

[cosmic hedge]

Yeah, they seem pretty advanced with this stuff. Aren't the || dancing clockwork princes literally infused with the soul of the deceased one? ||?

[drowsy mortar]

Correct

[thorny brook]

It doesn’t

[drowsy mortar]

I would test this but I’ve already progressed too far

[tawny basin]

We fr getting silksong before GTA6

[drowsy mortar]

Dang

[tawny basin]

Is the last judge high or something?

Why does bro not have lore

[edgy barn]

Its lore is that it kills those judged to be unworthy

[drowsy mortar]

But also real talk who looked at the Chorus robots and said “I wanna look like that.”

[tawny basin]

That's all? Dam

I thought i could dig in on a random npc

[drowsy mortar]

Would be inconvenient as fuck to go anywhere in a body that big lol

[cosmic hedge]

I could name some people lol

[timber pond]

It's a really big pharloom grub

[terse root]

im assuming|| embrace the void|| ending is cannon, ||the void beast face flashes during true ending?||

[edgy barn]

What's the purpose of the Chorus robots, in general?

[cosmic hedge]

Yeah, I think that's correct ^^

[drowsy mortar]

All 3 “true” endings could be canon

[tawny basin]

Is "Princess Knight " confirmed?

[drowsy mortar]

Generally seems to be defence of the citadel

The choir is like the military

[terse root]

what about ||that face that appears quickly from embrace the void||

[torn sentinel]

I think all HK endings could be canon, depending on wich ending you go for in SS, it's just that the third ending is only compatible with the last 3 endings form HK

[drowsy mortar]

Yeah that’s why Godmaster endings seem to be canon

[terse root]

hm

[tawny basin]

From the first look i know hunter is using void

[drowsy mortar]

But we also see Void given form so it’s a bit unclear

[tawny basin]

Hunter's journal could be quiet useful

[tawny basin]

[drowsy mortar]

HK and SS are 100% off the table

The justification for SS no longer works given Lace’s motivations

[terse root]

are you talking about sealed siblings or silksong

[torn sentinel]

SS is sealed siblings, yes? Yeah I forgot about that one, but why is HK out of the table?

[drowsy mortar]

Sealed Siblings

[terse root]

ah

[drowsy mortar]

Because in that one Rad is not dead

So Hornet would still be guarding King’s Brand

[tawny basin]

Is Seth the hk version of Technoblade?

[terse root]

also hornet is trapped ? lol

[drowsy mortar]

Only in SS

[winter iris]

Ending one "The hollow Knight" is off the table because then the knight could not have been one with the void/Lord of Shades.

[drowsy mortar]

But yeah if Rad doesn’t die, Hornet doesn’t leave her duty

[terse root]

also hornet says she has seen gods fall before, i.e. radiance

[drowsy mortar]

And SS specifically mentions her watch being over

[winter iris]

SS, even more incompatible cause Hornet would not even end up in Pharloom to kickstart Silksong.

[serene belfry]

when

[torn sentinel]

I see, so you are right

[terse root]

when talking to lace

i forgot fight 1 or 2

[edgy barn]

Eh, I'm pretty sure that line refers (mainly) to the Pale King regardless

[terse root]

ah also true

[serene belfry]

https://youtu.be/9NliFX_dFtw?si=k0bdz633KBwx6MeG

[drowsy mortar]

There’s too many mentions of Rad dying for HK or SS endings to be canon to Silksong

[tawny basin]

First, cult of lamb, now this

[terse root]

also yeah her watch is over like u said

[drowsy mortar]

I am curious about White Lady’s history with the Everbloom

[serene belfry]

wait

[serene belfry]

"Ah, what precious gift it offers, though alas I shan't accept.

Not of me that flower, nor of this kingdom. Far it travelled to reach this place, brought by one beloved, fair knight of lands serene.
There is rare power hidden in those frail petals.
To hold it so close, one must surely be unaware of its nature... "

[drowsy mortar]

Like did they derive the Lighthouse from it…?

[serene belfry]

she also calls it the "first light"

[drowsy mortar]

Stole what I was about to say lol

[winter iris]

The first light is a very interesting name for sure.

[tawny basin]

Creator probably

[cosmic hedge]

Oh, that actually might relate to something I wanted to ask here

[drowsy mortar]

So is all soul light derived from the Everblooms?

[serene belfry]

and considering its anti-void properties i believe it has something to do with why the void seems to hate all things with soul and higher beings

[winter iris]

The only thing that can ward off the void, which can fell higher beings already.

[tawny basin]

First light, first to come

[serene belfry]

im going with a theory that roughly, higher beings or PALE beings usurped the lands from the void or void civilisation

radiance even calls it an ancient enemy

[drowsy mortar]

The one part that kinda weirds me out is Hornet being 100% sure a flower plucked from a memory can a) be brought to the real world at full power and b) protect her from being voided lol

[tawny basin]

But why would they work with the void if they literally attacked the void

[serene belfry]

It's a leap of faith. That's all it is miles.

[tawny basin]

Pale king is pale right?

[thorny brook]

She pulled 3 hearts from a memory. Checks out to me

[edgy barn]

I mean, if the hearts can be brought from the dream realm...

[winter iris]

I also heard the everbloom is an splinter of "something greater"

[drowsy mortar]

She says this before they make that plan tho lol

[winter iris]

Hey, if it worked with hearts, it will pull up the everbloom too.

[serene belfry]

she possibly has knowledge that stuff that happens in dreams can affect the real world from the radiance shenanigans

[tawny basin]

Ah the flower, it's odd

[serene belfry]

where?

[drowsy mortar]

Maybe, I do wish we got more on that though