sk-lore

[fading whale]

Maybe that happened, we don't know

[solid elk]

Question: Do the snail shamans come out of their shells after the Red Memory?

They...are they dead?

[gloomy path]

everbloom cooked them

[fading whale]

Maybe that happened, maybe it can retreat into the nightmare realm, there's a lot of unknowns here

[solid elk]

Uh. Did they know this would happen? That sounds like quite the oversight of their part.

[gaunt kraken]

As is typical =w=

[craggy smelt]

dialogue with Eva
Eva: My mothers shared the curse of their tribe, to conceive a child is a painful, near impossible task.
Hornet: I know the curse well, Eva, for I am also it’s victim, and spawn of one who managed to overcome its limits. Are you too an attempt to defy that cruel constraint?
Eva: A flawed attempt. A life spun from rune and shell, sustained only by its cage. My thoughts may mimic a Weavers but my senses are my own. Over time, that difference brought only distance between us.

[silk dirge]

im having a debate on this in a different discord server and im very curious about this

is herrah a weaver?

[craggy smelt]

yes

[gloomy path]

yes

[silk dirge]

she doesnt look like one is my problem

[craggy smelt]

still

[solid elk]

Is Midwife a Weaver?

[craggy smelt]

no
she seperates the weavers from her own tribe

[gaunt kraken]

Still imagine Grim didn't have a contingency. Cause if not, he basically handed the future of the nightmare heart to a idle eldritch horror / suicide bomber
Some would call that questionable parenting

[gloomy path]

it could be any creature gms ascends is a weaver, likely the reason why she doesn't have a ballerina body

[solid elk]

Herrah is weird for lacking the most defining trait of Weavers, that giant ass ball head

[silk dirge]

that would make sense

[silk dirge]

it could be that got taken off for the dreamer mask? but then what about her horns

[fading whale]

Yeah the weavers with the ball heads and thin bodies come from pharlids as we see from the first sinner cutscene

[solid elk]

Higher Beings are bad parents

[fading whale]

But there's the weaverlings in hollow knight and the smaller weavers you know the ones that walk on the air and have a red skirt too

[solid elk]

First Sinner being killed seemed like such a waste, given than they likely also wanted to end GMS as well

[fading whale]

Which is kind of weird cause like that shows they're young weavers which kinda goes against the infertility thing

[silk dirge]

maybe they were spun from silk or something like that

[craggy smelt]

Little Weavers might actually just be a smaller breed of weavers - if there's the standard kind and the Herrah kind, they could just be shorties

[fading whale]

If you were locked up for eons you'd probably attack the first thing you come into contact with especially if it's 50% the tribe of your jailers

[solid elk]

The Weaverlings may also be animals like how the sapient ants have pet ants

[gloomy path]

spun from silk only worked for lace and phantom, and they took so much silk that gms had to forecfully recall weavers to get their share of silk

[craggy smelt]

they just seem to be creations from the charm
like the glowing womb babies

[fading whale]

But there's a tall weaver like the ones we see in pharloom as well

[craggy smelt]

sure, there are corpses of regular weavers in Weaver's Den

[solid elk]

Don't we see a Weaver run away in HK that isn't a ballerina body?

[fading whale]

Yes

[solid elk]

Like, they are ALL head

[silk dirge]

i think it could also be team cherry didnt think out weaver lore when they made those

[fading whale]

But I'm curious about the small infected ones in deepnest are they not weaver children

[solid elk]

Our lore fixation cannot accept such an answer

[craggy smelt]

pretty spindly looking

[fading whale]

It's called a little weaver in the journal

The enemy

[craggy smelt]

they're just called little, they aren't necessarily children

[silk dirge]

also it seems weird to me that weavers could get infected bc they dont seem like the type of creatures that would

[craggy smelt]

all things dream

well, most things dream

[solid elk]

Is that a head or a mask? I think it is called a mask at one point, as one weaver had their mask forcibly removed

[fading whale]

It is a mask

[craggy smelt]

mask, head, both... hard to tell in holloworld

[fading whale]

Hornet says about widow that she is a weaver who had her mask forcibly removed

So it is a mask

And their real head is like widow's

[solid elk]

Actually, is the white mask part of many bug faces actually removable (without killing the bug)?

[craggy smelt]

altough First Sinner was uplifted into her current form with her current head, so were the pharlids also wearing masks? it's possible~!

[fading whale]

I think all weavers with that body type come from pharlids, just different strains and lineages

Herrah probably not a pharlid

[craggy smelt]

hornet calls her own face a mask, so I guess it depends on whether its an artificial or natural 'mask'

[solid elk]

Hornet in theory could take off her mask then

[fading whale]

Yeah but she also says widow's mask was forcibly removed I think it's safe to say the weaver round head is a mask

[solid elk]

I think if it is also chitin attached to the body, it effectively is jusy part of the head at that point

Unless you are someone Mask Maker makes masks for

[fading whale]

Also notable , in the pharlid journal entry hornet notices how the pharlid attacks remind her of her own technique, that I think is a hint we're supposed to get before the first sinner reveal

[solid elk]

Actually, is this Mask Maker a completely separate guy? Right?

[craggy smelt]

different Mask Maker

[fading whale]

Definitely don't think weaver big heads are made by the mask maker in my opinion

[craggy smelt]

they probably make their own
(I wonder if they're worn to hide any hybrid attributes they have...?)

[fading whale]

I disagree, unmasked, him and hornet speak like they're acquaintances from the past, something that is impossible unless that mask maker has been in Hallownest.

[craggy smelt]

she just recognizes them as another mask maker, part of a larger group
she does the same with the snails

[solid elk]

Mask Maker traveling to Pharloom and having eyes that aren't seriously ill looking wouod be weird

[fading whale]

My theory is that the mask maker is a shared mind across all the bodies that serve his purpose, and the masks he wears split/isolate his personalities to each body.

[craggy smelt]

well, then we would both be right

[left glade]

is mirster mushroom a higher being?

[gloomy path]

weaver's mask is part of their shell as they had it when gms forcefully evolved a pharlid, forcefully removing it was probably a extremely painful torture apart from disabling her silk with those pins

[fading whale]

He knows way too much about hornet to not have met her before

[silk dirge]

hes the highest being

[fading whale]

I think also, every face in hollow knight could be referred to as a mask even if it isn't literally one

[gloomy path]

fr, can't get any higher, also the one piece is realllll

[queen patrol]

mask i think is just a colloquial term for the hard shell on a face

[craggy smelt]

yes

[gloomy path]

midwife is probably how alot of bugs look tbh

[craggy smelt]

mask, shell, face... some bugs don't seem to recognize the difference

[fading whale]

That's why he says his task becomes much heavier if he is unmasked. It probably means he has to bare full consciousness when unmasked.

When masked, he has different personalities , he's also referred to by hornet as non lucid and most likely doesn't bare the weight of all the knowledge he has constantly

[fading whale]

However some like the mask maker himself quite literally change personalities depending on their mask. The mask maker also says that those who are faceless can gain higher consciousness and focus their being through an actual literal mask that isn't a part that they were born with

To that end I think it's signifsct to point out that gms has no face

And neither does phantom, that's why she holds that broken white mask over it

They have the same pure black face that looks like a hole

Obviously gms and phantom aren't bugs, but I think this still matters

[bitter berry]

Is there a spoiler requirement for this chat or can I just ask away

[craggy smelt]

there is no spoiler restrictions

[gaunt kraken]

Say, with that in mind, why do you think that there is a mask maker in Pharloom. I get it for hollow knight with masks being an important part of the culture and all but in Pharloom there is barely any cultural importance to masks despite their abilities. Is he simply a relic of an older time like some of the bosses we fight later on in the game

[bitter berry]

Alr bet, is God home ending in silksong canon because the shade beast is present in the lost lace ending?

Cause shadebeast is only shown in hk during God home not the other radiance ending

[craggy smelt]

maybe
the brief flash of their appearance might just be an allusion to what TK is capable of
some have pointed out that THK's shade is also missing though...

[bitter berry]

I don't think it is?

Oh wait thk not tk

[craggy smelt]

plus there's a flash of the siblings, and they weren't present when the Shadelord appeared in Godhome, implying that they were all subsumed by it
altogether, it's a little ambiguous

[bitter berry]

But in the end the knight without a doubt recognized hornet yes?

[craggy smelt]

absolutely

[bitter berry]

I really liked this games ending it connected a lot from the fist game abt the void

[craggy smelt]

i am just glad it wasn't a prequel after all

[gaunt kraken]

Might be. It's either that or the normal true ending

We definitely get a sense of the void being unified again as the tendrils work to bring hornet and lace back up but if that's the case why was the knight in his own form and not in that of the shade lord?

One thing to substantiate your theory though is the dialogue between Hornet and the snail shamans where she mentions that she has seen a kingdom fall to void once before. This may be a reference to the ending where the shade lord broke into the real word through the godseeker

[fading whale]

He says to hornet that she needs to stfu and let him work and that she very well does know the necessity of his service. So clearly he is necessary in basically every kingdom

[gaunt kraken]

All in all I'm personally in favour of the embrace the void godhome ending being canon

[bitter berry]

Yeah that would make sense, was it ever confirmed what hornet went into combat stance for in the godseeker ending?

[gaunt kraken]

Maybe he thinks her an insider because she is wearing a mask (I think). Kind of like some people describe their own work as very important to people they think are in the know

[bitter berry]

I would also prefer this as if the godseekers have radiance in their mind radiance still exists so I want it to be the radiance is gone gone

[fading whale]

I think it's pretty clear hornet is talking about hallownest in that line, unless we assume she has been to another kingdom or heard about another kingdom? Or she's talking about the ancient civilization but she definitely hasn't SEEN that

[bitter berry]

It may be possible with being a child she could've seen something but I think godseeker is most plausible

[gaunt kraken]

I think she was talking about Hallownest since that's the part she was very much personally involved with. We also know that a lot of time has passed between HK and Silksong though so it may be possible she has seen all kinds of things on her journey

[fading whale]

Even in his masked form and also his needolin dialogue (same in both forms) he says "a face for all" " a mask to be, a mask to hide, a mask to define" I think masks are needed for all who aren't able to have fully developed consciousness. Maybe that includes children of normally conscious bugs, maybe it's a common thing to happen and when a bug is born without a proper mask or face into a community of bugs that do have it, they call upon the mask maker to provide

[normal dirge]

how does void exposure work? bugs in hollownest were dying from simply being near it for a whle but both hornet AND lace can dive into it and remain unharmed

[fading whale]

I don't think hornet is wearing a mask maker made mask, I think her "mask" is just her face she was born with

[normal dirge]

isnt it just an extension of her shell from the part of her thats wyrm

[fading whale]

Yeah it's a full attached part of her body she was born with, she does refer to it as a mask when talking to the mask maker though but I think that's just because she's speaking with his terms

And because it's not completely wrong to call a mask a face

For the kingdom's faceless I shall provide he says

And he provides masks, faces

[normal dirge]

isnt it a random piece of lore in the first game that masks can affect the mind of bugs

[fading whale]

Yes and in the case of those born faceless they literally are necessary for them to be able to focus and define their existence into a traditional consciousness

That's what the mask maker does for them

Helps them focus, define, and hide their primal faceless and mindless self

[empty sierra]

do we ever see any other bugs mask being removed aside the mask makers?

[fading whale]

Widow is a weaver whose mask was removed forcibly

[empty sierra]

hmm

[gaunt kraken]

That does explain his function adequately but not his location. Surely if he performs such an important task, then he wouldn't be huddled up on one of the most dastardly places to reach in the entire game, where the literal outside air is enough to freeze you solid in about 10 seconds.

Then again, he still seems to have set up shop properly up there with the courier knowing about him so somehow news seem to reach downwards to the bellheart

[empty sierra]

widow went crazy but idk if its specifically due to the mask being removed

theres a lot more that happened to her on top of that

[fading whale]

Yeah the courier knows, and also he's in a hidden and inaccessible and hostile location in hallownest too

[fading whale]

Yeah, pins in her spine, mind control from gms

[gaunt kraken]

Interestingly enough, consciousness seems to be again tied to the presence of a higher being in Pharloom since as soon as you step outside to the surface above the cradle, all you can find are mindless critters and a nameless town

[empty sierra]

mind control? i didt know about that

what did gms do to her

[fading whale]

Well gms can affect anyone with her silk , widow is literally hugging and rubbing all over ot

She's also her creation as are all weavers

So we can assume she can affect them

[empty sierra]

ya but wasnt she using gms silk? i didnt get the impression that she was controlled by it

but i guess she was doing the same thing as gms which is to control other bugs

[fading whale]

Nameless town bugs seem to have had their minds without a higher being playing a part

[gaunt kraken]

Formally it was civilised though, when the weavers still had control? If I remember right though, the bugs in deepnest never really got along with the pale king though until he gifted Herah a daughter. So why would the Pale king and the weavers be alright with the mask maker conducting business in what is basically enemy territory

And why would a mask maker need to be so cut off from civilisation

[fading whale]

Maybe through torture she submitted to gms will but she seems exactly aligned to whatever gms wants to do

[empty sierra]

yeaa

[gaunt kraken]

We don't actually know what happened to the nameless town. We know that the residents there knew of the weavers and the silk below. My theory is that they lured the bugs down from the surface (as the song suggests) and as a result the town fell victim to erosion a long time ago

[fading whale]

Maybe from protection, and a lack of distractions? I also don't think the pale king really had an option to not let him be. I get the impression he is necessary for any Kingdom

[gaunt kraken]

Now the bugs around that place are mindless

[fading whale]

Yea but they had their own mine before going down. And hornet explicitly states the surface is completely untouched by gms

Even now that she is waking

We can assume back when weavers were beckoning and whispering , she was completely subdued

So definitely no influence of hers on the surface

There's also that like of "friends seduced" and "now only the wind"

That shows that some not all the bugs got lured, and it also shows that eventually the whispers stopped and only the wind remained for the bugs of the surface

Probably when the weavers fled

[gaunt kraken]

Fled to Hallownest most likely

[fading whale]

They fled to the very deep, like weavnest atla

Maybe down here we will escape her gaze it's says on that nest

[gaunt kraken]

Hmm I wonder what gave these surface bugs their mind. If some bugs just naturally carry consciousness or if they were toughed by another higher being once

[fading whale]

Also, the weavers which went to hallownest were a subgroup and they were branded cowards by the rest of the weavers

There is like one weavnest where there's a rune saying basically run sisters run

[gaunt kraken]

Interesting. I always assumed those were decrepit ruins, entirely devoid of any life after the weavers had fled since they hastily left their things behind and everything

[fading whale]

I think they fled all over the place not just hallownest, some went deeper down, some went to hallownest, some to other kingdoms. That is also evident by the presence of 1/8th and 1/4th weavers in kingdoms we had literally never heard of before

[gaunt kraken]

Ah yes I remember those tablets

They were very confusing when I first saw them xD

[fading whale]

I was hyped

[gaunt kraken]

Only when I went back and defeated the first sinner did I learn what they meant

[fading whale]

Shows how strong hornet is, they were basically texting the waters of part weaver beings starting from the lowest until they managed to get the balls to go after hornet

Anyways it's 7:32 am and I haven't slept cause I've been talking and thinking about silksong the whole day

I have to go , goodnight

[gaunt kraken]

Nighty!

[gaunt kraken]

6:33am for me and same xD

[wary plover]

How did pharloom even fall

Because from my experience it didn't not even have a radiance

Also pharloom wasn't like the hallownest where the kingdom was isolated; it had a long and a prosperous relationship with the neighbouring locals

[neat sandal]

what 1/8 1/4 mean?

[spark valve]

For one
It does have a hb mind controlling shit
For another the citadel’s relations with other tribes are way worse

[left glade]

is the reanson why life blood never infected anything in hollow knight bc everythign was already infected by the radicance a higher being

[spark valve]

They’re poisoning bilewater, they wiped out Karak and the ants can’t resist them anymore, they betrayed a ruler of verdania and it fell to ruin

[empty sierra]

lifeblood is injected in silksong but its eaten/drank in hollow knight, that could be a factor

[wary plover]

Okay but beside the swamp, verdania, the coral creatures, the ants, the spiders the flies and the craws I would argue the citadel itself is doing alright with the other tribes

[left glade]

but it wasnt injected into the bugs that got infected by it

[spark valve]

Are you joking that’s like almost every tribe and the other one is the flies which they enslaved

[empty sierra]

wait what happened to them then? i thought the alchemist was running experiments

[spark valve]

Oh and the pinstress’ order they got them to teach them techniques and then wiped them out too

[left glade]

im pretty sure its just like the infection but much weaker since it didnt do anything in hollow knight and in silksong it didnt start spreading till grand mother silk went away

[void smelt]

Why is the first sinner attacking us?

[wary plover]

Hmm it is slightly exploitative I don't disagree

[spark valve]

Extracting a group’s techniques and then killing them is only slightly exploitative?

[empty sierra]

could be related to void spreading, i cant believe the alchemist had nothing to do with, he must have created some conditions for it to start infecting and spreading maliciously

[quartz flicker]

I had a thought: What if the design of the Exhaust Organ, and it's location, is that way specifically to ensure that Shellwood remains pristine?

[empty sierra]

otherwise lifeblood was just chilling normally like in hk

[spark valve]

The citadel does not seem to give a damn

[left glade]

he could have been spreading it into the ground and stuff ig

[empty sierra]

yea he wasnt just hiding in his room, he was probably doing all sorts of things for research

[left glade]

i think it was only chilling in hk bc the radiance had most bugs infected and shes a higer being so it couldnt take controle of bugs that she has control over

[empty sierra]

yea that could be it too why not

we dont know enough for now

[left glade]

also u can see a life blood infected bug in hollow knight

[craggy smelt]

His assistant's journal entry mentioned they were seeding in through the caves, so their work probably spread it faster than it would have normally

[left glade]

in the panthion theres a huge one

[empty sierra]

yea? i didnt know that

[quartz flicker]

Shellwood is absurdly lush and we know that the Citadel honors the legacy of Nyleth.

It would make sense that the Exhaust Organ exists at least in part to direct the pollution far away from Shellwood.

[spark valve]

It’s because the grand gate is like right there

[left glade]

its in the life blood room

[empty sierra]

actually i never unlocked that room

how do you even do that

[muted lantern]

so does hornet just murder green prince lol

he dies because we fight him doesnt he

[empty sierra]

tbf he started it

[white panther]

Do we know if the enemies on the abyss were born there or were they lead there, fell, mutated or something?

[left glade]

she does

[spark valve]

To whatever extent they want to keep shellwood habitable it’s because that’s where the pilgrimage goes

[muted lantern]

kinda fucked up of her lol

[left glade]

fr

[muted lantern]

did he like.. want to die?

[wary plover]

He started what, going into people's memories? Oh wait that was hornet

[spark valve]

Yes

[left glade]

no he wanted to chill rembering his gay lover

[muted lantern]

hornet homophobic confirmed

[empty sierra]

I WAS JUST CURIOUS HE IDDNT HAVE TO FIGHT ME

[muted lantern]

thats like breaking into someones house to see what the inside looks like

[empty sierra]

[mighty talon]

since silksong is after hk
does that mean one of the endings in hk isnt canon?

[empty sierra]

nop they can work

[muted lantern]

silksong is set after either embrace the void or dream no more, couldnt be any of the others

[left glade]

ok so i did a little reserching and im 99% sure life blood might be like the infection

[mighty talon]

how so

[empty sierra]

theres no time frame so you can assume they got unsealed in any other ending

[wary plover]

How did the envoys and choristers break into the black egg

[muted lantern]

sealed siblings hornet is dreaming forever, and hollow knight ending the knight is sealed forever not in the void

[empty sierra]

non-void endings in hk can be justified with act 2 endings in silksong i think

[mighty talon]

the hollow knight could work too?
also im assuming delicate flower consumed hallownest right

[mighty talon]

sealed siblings how would they get unsealed

[wary plover]

Delicate flower is gms slash radiance confirmed

[empty sierra]

idk theres no rule saying they CANT be unsealed, plus any amount of time can pass between the games

[fair zealot]

so is the implication that the snail shamans used all of their power and sacrificed themselves to cast the spell to put hornet in red memory?

[mighty talon]

i dont understand 😭

[empty sierra]

its up to interpretation

[mighty talon]

hornet is trapped inside she would be dreaming forever

[empty sierra]

yea thats true

[wary plover]

I mean delicate flower isn't a higher being overlord it can't consume hallownest

[mighty talon]

it kills the void right after it leaks and consumes everything right?
i might be remembering wrong

[empty sierra]

maybe theres a way to enter her dreams without goin inside the room

[mighty talon]

telepathy fr

[empty sierra]

and thats where pablo comes in

[mighty talon]

also whats the first sinners sin

[wary plover]

The only possible explanation is it hornet somehow dreamt up of pharloom if we're going by that timeline

[fair zealot]

well in the events of hollow knight, the black egg's seals are already weakening, right?

[empty sierra]

lmao schizophrenic hornet

[wary plover]

So we confirmed the citadel was evil or no

[fair zealot]

foolish, i think

[empty sierra]

idk the living conductor doesnt seem evil

[wary plover]

Phew I thought they were the bad guys

[empty sierra]

just regretful and sad

maybe they were just dumb asf

[wary plover]

The living conductor is what we call melodic

[mighty talon]

any1 know?

[lean temple]

Apostacy

[empty sierra]

heresy according to the key you unlock her room with

[clever rapids]

Under grandmother's rule, Pharloom loses most of its former beauty and glory and becomes a capitalist dystopia - benches for rent, silk dispensers that cost money, poor Loam who is fed lies about the capital to keep him in slavery, working himself to death for nothing.

is silksong literally just criticising capitalism and dictatorship

[empty sierra]

i think allat was even before gsm lmao

[wary plover]

Wait I'm so confused I didn't know if gms was the one ruling or just the one in control

[fair zealot]

from what I've heard: the citadel was made to imprison gms but the original mission was lost over the generations (and gms' influence) such that all they knew was "keep the citadel running" with no actual care for pharloom or anything

[obsidian quail]

all of this was before GMS even woke up

[fair zealot]

i could be misinterpreting tho

[wary plover]

That's another version of events yes.

[empty sierra]

gms wasnt ruling the conductors were, while trying to keep gms asleep

but they failed and gms started taking control of bugs

[obsidian quail]

the citadel higher ups were doing what rascal said then gms wakes up and controls them through silk they were injecting into themselves to go fetch Weavers

[tawdry flare]

Don't forget organized religion

[wary plover]

I noticed something I think grand mother silk is an ironic name because a mother is everything she tried to be but never was

She wasn't a mother to her people nor to lace nor to the weavers she kept trying

But I think in the last moment in the ver last moment she got to be a mother

[vague jasper]

The living conductor mentions tho how she was always pulling the strings and how they only had the illusion of having authority

[obsidian quail]

so cheesy

cheesy GMS

Lace was a little shit

[empty sierra]

well thats something youd say after failing to contain her i guess, i think it just means she was always stronger than them and it didnt matter that they put her under sleep

[vague jasper]

Lace was having an existential crisis, she kept questioning her own existence so that's why she was so mean and bitter

[vague jasper]

Yes, that could also be the case

[obsidian quail]

she can be a little shit with struggles

[wary plover]

Her ost should have been called "spun to fade"

[left glade]

is grand mother silk a higher being

[obsidian quail]

she wasn’t always pulling the strings

[wary plover]

Not this again. They couldn't decide last time

[white panther]

i blame Silk for making an eternal teenager

[left glade]

ima just assume yes

[fair zealot]

perhaps always during his lifetime

[empty sierra]

also kinda dumb for the citadel to inject bugs with silk, the ONE thing their opp can control 😭

[obsidian quail]

it was Weavers first then Citadel caste continued the process then GMS woke up and the illusion that they were the top dogs was broken

and they served her

[void smelt]

Someone can explain to me the lore of the origianl sinner

[obsidian quail]

explicitly stated to be a Higher Being

[wary plover]

What exactly is the song of part of pharlooms curse

[left glade]

oh cool then

[vague jasper]

Made someone unknown transgression against GMS

[left glade]

my life blood theory makes complate sense then

[obsidian quail]

well they had no real idea about GMS, they just knew the silk extended life

[empty sierra]

that higher beings influence prevents bugs from being infected?

[void smelt]

That weaver made the transgression?

[tawdry flare]

She's a Pale Being so yeah

[left glade]

yes

[empty sierra]

wdym didnt they put her to sleep with their music?

[vague jasper]

Yes

[obsidian quail]

the Weavers did but the Citadel caste didn’t

they didn’t know what they were doing

[empty sierra]

waht? i didt know that

[obsidian quail]

they continued the process after the Weavers were gone and injected themselves with Silk in this time

[void smelt]

Also, why the weavers left Pharloom?

[empty sierra]

i thought the citadle was aware of gms existing

[obsidian quail]

to get away from GMS

[obsidian quail]

they weren’t

[void smelt]

why

[empty sierra]

probably felt the inevitable fall as gms power was rising

[obsidian quail]

because they didn’t like her anymore

[obsidian quail]

they were gone way before that

[empty sierra]

oh

[obsidian quail]

the only bugs around when GMS was waking up was the citadel

[empty sierra]

maybe they sensed it before? idk she kinda strong af

[obsidian quail]

atp they all have a buncha silk in them because it wasn’t a problem then they got controlled through it when gms was waking up

[empty sierra]

does that mean the first sinner stayed behind?

[obsidian quail]

they just wanted to get away so they dispersed

[empty sierra]

also widow too?

[obsidian quail]

it seems some of them did

[vague jasper]

When does GMS wake up

[obsidian quail]

sometime while the Citadel capitalist hell is going strong

[vague jasper]

And so everything dies

[obsidian quail]

everything gets mind controlled

because every bug has silk

[empty sierra]

its such a greedy move to have subscription based benches in underworks knowing theres overworked and constantly tired bugs there

[neat sandal]

I have feel all the shit show happen in citadel is because greedy of some bugs not even relate to GMS
no evidence of GMS crime except she haunting those corpse

[obsidian quail]

it’s like if u all drink something and u like the effects but u don’t know what it is or belongs to, and the owner of that liquid can now control u through it

[obsidian quail]

yeah they blame her for stuff that wasn’t really her fault, i honestly don’t see how she’s evil

[vague jasper]

As if they care about those workers lol, the confession room goes like
Minor inconvenience , punishment= death

[obsidian quail]

she got fucked over by the Weavers for ambiguous reasons and then reacted

[vague jasper]

Salvation through death

[cursive sinew]

Why did the bugs of pharloom even inject Silk into them to begin with btw

[obsidian quail]

it extends life

[empty sierra]

extends their life

[vague jasper]

Dreams of immortality

[cursive sinew]

Oh huh...

[vague jasper]

Whiteward is full of such experiments

[wary plover]

I feel like the white lady is such a morally grey character

[vague jasper]

Not morally grey, she is a good character, the path they all chose was morally questionable that is

At the end hornet comes to realise that

But they had no choice

[wary plover]

Why sacrifice her children in the thousands if she's good.

[empty sierra]

hornet with the pale cloak has so much aura in the memory

[vague jasper]

You saw what radiance did

[empty sierra]

i love that design

[wary plover]

Hornet is a knight too then?

[empty sierra]

hornet is a hunter

[vague jasper]

No, she is the result of herrah' wish

But trained nonetheless

We saw she was trained in the beehive

[obsidian quail]

definitely morally grey

[wary plover]

Queen Vespa knew of hornet's fate so she trained her before she died wow.

[empty sierra]

my goat did nothing wrong

[obsidian quail]

uhhh

[vague jasper]

What could you have done against radiance my guy, the knight happened to be the very lucky vessel to stand up against radiance

Others had no chance

[obsidian quail]

the justification doesn’t change it’s morally grey

never said she’s evil

obviously she didn’t want to do that

[vague jasper]

She said the character is morally grey, I said the action was

[obsidian quail]

she came up with it and went through it

that’s morally grey

[vague jasper]

It's either that or suicide

[limber anvil]

OK now to wait for silksong dlc.

[obsidian quail]

yes but that doesn’t change it’s still morally grey

not mutually exclusive

[empty sierra]

it was the white ladys idea?

she was morally white

[obsidian quail]

both PK and WL are morally grey

[shy horizon]

btw did grand mother silk create the Citadel or did she invade it? was it always a silky place?

[lucid linden]

If anyone is figuring out lore and the red memory doesn’t make any sense you can just say it is fake because hornet has infinite silk and that doesn’t make sense

[vague jasper]

I personally consider them good then in that case

[left glade]

she created it

[proud coyote]

|| so is this the guy that led bretta into fungal wastes and left her to die? ||

[wary plover]

He looks weirdly like the knight

[white panther]

I mean, in a way many things the WL says on red memory shows a lot of pain to make that choice

[shy horizon]

ah alright

[obsidian quail]

PK and WL don’t even think they’re good

that’s what makes them grey and complex

[vague jasper]

Any sane person would regret such a decision

[obsidian quail]

they did terrible things that they didn’t want to do

[obsidian quail]

ur saying stuff which is cool but it’s morally grey

i wouldn’t call them good

and they don’t think they’re good

[vague jasper]

For me they are, they would have been losers had they accepted their fates

[empty sierra]

PK was kinda dumb tho wtf do you mean an eternal kingdom

he even saw the future 😭

but still did it

[obsidian quail]

uh huh

[vague jasper]

Kings have foolish hopes sometimes

[obsidian quail]

not that precise i think

[empty sierra]

yea true

[vague jasper]

It wasnt that great supposedly

[obsidian quail]

yeah sacrificing endless kids will do that

[empty sierra]

how did PK even die i dont remember

[obsidian quail]

just to fail embarrassingly

[vague jasper]

But still kudos to the man for trying, he kept a long thriving kingdom, even was a good father to the one child he kept alive

[empty sierra]

hes just sitting on his throne and aura farming when we find him

[white panther]

i dont think its 100% clear

how PK died

[obsidian quail]

just a million other dead ones

[vague jasper]

Sadly

[empty sierra]

i mean how do you build an eternal kingdom if ur not immortal yourself

he didnt even leave a heir 😭

[vague jasper]

It's in the nature of wyrms

[obsidian quail]

idk if he really ages

[empty sierra]

bro was just vibing the whole "eternal kingdom" and commiting atrocities just for the sake of it

[white panther]

he is immortal in the sense of age, not invincible or indestructible

[vague jasper]

Hornet is half wyrm too so she'll prolly make pharloom thrive

[empty sierra]

he doesnt seem to have died from anything other than age or illness maybe

[obsidian quail]

she’s not the ruling type

she doesn’t intend to stay

i just hope that little shit doesn’t go with her

[empty sierra]

or actually his corpse is in a dream right? we actually never see or hear about him irl or his body

[white panther]

i mean, we really dont know, he could have used all his strenght to create and hide the palace

[vague jasper]

Not by ruling, by helping them rebuild, she already helps a lot throughout the game

[white panther]

many things could have happened

[obsidian quail]

oh that’s true

[analog pelican]

the guy he tasked to not turn off a light turned off a light

[empty sierra]

wat

[obsidian quail]

people say he died from regret or maybe void poisoning or maybe he just lost the will to live

who knows

[vague jasper]

He was influenced by the void prolly become lost

It would have been better if PK left no one in the abyss

And just shut if off

[left glade]

anybody got the jornaly entires for the life blood infected bugs

[obsidian quail]

gachi fan out in the wild

more of a riyo guy myself

[vague jasper]

So what do we know about the world of Hollow knight besides hallownest and pharloom, clearly hallownest is not the last kingdom

[naive crag]

there's many

[vague jasper]

There's the city of Steel, shakra' land

[obsidian quail]

the only other kingdom we know the name of is the steel city

[naive crag]

lands serene and they captured weavers from other kingdoms

[fair zealot]

there's a few locations mentioned on the cages in the cradle

[modest coyote]

void

[obsidian quail]

and then wherever shakra is from and also the place where everblooms come from

[modest coyote]

its prertty clear

void killing pale king

we see void crawl up the white palace he made onto his throne

[vague jasper]

Yes

[vague jasper]

Weavers mainly are from pharloom tho

[naive crag]

shakra isnt from a kingdom her tribe is on the wastelands

[modest coyote]

theyre all originally from pharloom

[vague jasper]

Weavers travelled to different lands tho

[modest coyote]

i think zote is also from pharloom

[white panther]

maybe affected by it but not the main cause. Void fragments there isnt strong proof that it was what killed him

[vague jasper]

Isn't she the same one as that dream nail guy from the first game

[white panther]

as i said, we dont know 100% what happened, we can at most assume

[vague jasper]

If true, can she become as strong as that guy, he was making shockboom rings

[modest coyote]

we have no other evidence of something else kiloling him

pale king was REALLY powerful

it must have been some high thing to kill him

either radiance or void are the most likely

[white panther]

still, its not enough proof, as i said, we can assumed many things but not being certain

[modest coyote]

but he seems unaffected by radiance

[vague jasper]

He prolly made all the saws for himself, who knows if he was great at platforming himself

[modest coyote]

im pretty sure that was for testing his kids and also security

[vague jasper]

Saws as a means of security is kinda whack

Testing seems more plausible

[modest coyote]

why

[empty sierra]

why would he test his kids with saws

[modest coyote]

???

[empty sierra]

their purpose is to contain the radiance not parkour over it

[modest coyote]

do u not remember the plot of the first game

[white panther]

"Void made him weak enough for the Radiance to find a way to kill him", things like that we can speculate and assume for sure, or even "he was touched by void and already depressed and gave up on the fight due to regret, knowing he was not the one that would stop this problem anyway"

[vague jasper]

So they could survive various platforming sections throughout life

[empty sierra]

their life would LITERALLY be chained up in a closed dome 😭

[modest coyote]

this is canonically the reason btw

[modest coyote]

no it was for finding one strong enough to contain the radiance

[empty sierra]

the only purpose for the children was that they were hollow

[empty sierra]

well not PHYSICALLY strong

like through platforming or combat lmao

[modest coyote]

there is some strength test to it because otherwise why was hollow knight trained is nail fighting?

[vague jasper]

Hornet clearly needed those skills and who knows if someone tried to free the Hollow knight like the knight

[modest coyote]

i mean yes physically strong too

why else were they training hollowknight in combat skills

[white panther]

to be fair this isnt a world where going from A to B is an easy task anyway

[empty sierra]

i guess in the case that we went in to protect themselves from intruders

[white panther]

and they would have to travel a LOT to reach the dreamers and all

[outer stump]

Huh so interesting, knocking the mask off of the mask maker is something that Hornet does to make him lucid. So his thoughts are muddled if he's got that thing on.

[empty sierra]

but idk if passing PATH OF PAIN was required lmaoo

[modest coyote]

i think the presumption is that the hollowknight faught radiance like we do

like it went in a dream and faught with the radiance to bind it like we do in one of the endings

[empty sierra]

the only reason we fight it is to kill it

[modest coyote]

so it did need combat and platforming skills

[empty sierra]

binding ending just requires defeating HK

[modest coyote]

no? in the base ending u bind it

[empty sierra]

yea but you dont fight radiance in base ending

[vague jasper]

We don't fight the radiance

[modest coyote]

ok sorry dream ending

but still i think u have to beat to bind

we fight grandmother silk to bind her

[white panther]

Do we have any indication that HollowK could communicate with the outside world? or even with the dreamers after he was sealed

[empty sierra]

idek its clearly shown we just absorb the infection from hk

[modest coyote]

binding seems to require physically beating ur enemy

[empty sierra]

how

[modest coyote]

well every time we bind something we stab their fucking soul

[vague jasper]

Nope

[empty sierra]

wait bind you mean in silksong?

[modest coyote]

i mean theres the same mechanic

[empty sierra]

where do you bind stuff in the main game

you do absorb the dreamers

[modest coyote]

we dont but we can learn about bidning from silksong no?

[white panther]

So maybe no one actually knows how the fight with Radiance went anyway

[modest coyote]

surely binding is similar in hollownest as in pharloom

[vague jasper]

Weaver magic is not well shown in the original game

[empty sierra]

ss binding is about binding silk to yurself

only hornet can do that

[modest coyote]

no i mean binding enemies

like grandmother silk

[empty sierra]

hmm

the only time you bind gms is through void with the trap

[modest coyote]

or when we get skills we stab corpses

[empty sierra]

thats a different kind of binding, like i said you take silk and bind it to yurself to become powerful

[modest coyote]

i mean i dont think its 100% identical

[vague jasper]

The Knight is the strongest character in the Hollow knight verse tho, hornet is not number 2

[modest coyote]

but ok consider this

[fiery coyote]

I mean, silk is physical soul

[vague jasper]

Hornet would number 4 or 5 I believe

[modest coyote]

the hollowknight is trained in physical combat and also magic

what for?

[vague jasper]

Soul is a different method than silk

[empty sierra]

to protect himself from intruders

[modest coyote]

clearly there is some purpose in the strength right

[left glade]

bro what

[vague jasper]

Souls are original by the snail shamans

[fiery coyote]

Look up the description of silk

[white panther]

Knight, PK, Radiance, Sherma, Hornet

[empty sierra]

like if someone malicious (instead of the knight) entered the black egg temple the hollow knight would have to defend himself to keep containing the radiance

[vague jasper]

Zote is number 2

[fiery coyote]

Sherma, Knight, Zote, PK, Radiance, Hornet

[modest coyote]

sure but i think its more than that no?, given the hollowknight is in chains etc

hes not exactly in prime fighting position to defend itself

[empty sierra]

yeah if he gets unchained ofc, if hes just left alone then why would he fight

[white panther]

I'm not mixing mortals and higher beings with a galaxy level god

[vague jasper]

Hornet would be number 2 if weaver queen ending was the true ending

[empty sierra]

what else would he need combat for then

[modest coyote]

to beat radiance

[empty sierra]

except for the gameplay reason of fighting him 💀

[vague jasper]

Fair enough

[empty sierra]

idek man seems like a stretch, point of HK was to contain it not defeat it

its clear they cant defeat radiance

so they do the second best thing which is contain

[modest coyote]

i mean not perminantly defeat

[fiery coyote]

Skill issue on their part

[modest coyote]

but subdue to the point of being able to bind

[fiery coyote]

I beat Radiance weekly for fun

[restive perch]

Did the white king even have access to the same Dreamworld as the radianxe

[white panther]

what do we actually get on act3 that we couldnt get on act2? as in powerups and etc.
Shaman crest, maybe Eva, Silk Soar, idk

[vague jasper]

Hollow knight could have prolly defeated the radiance, but ig they never tried

Also Hollow knight prolly didn't have dream nail

[empty sierra]

why didnt PK and HK summon the void to defeat the radiance? are they stupid?

[vague jasper]

Those abilities are nothing compared to the ui change in weaver queen ending

[white panther]

its a very insane and dangerous Snail art

[fiery coyote]

They thought that being of void was enough

[vague jasper]

PK was still cautious of the void

[restive perch]

That was pretty cool, the power up she got was absurd

[empty sierra]

i mena what else does the knight do besides unlock his childhood memory, then immediately call the void to aid him

[modest coyote]

i need someone to make a syrian civil war alliances version of the higher powers in silksong and hollowknight

[vague jasper]

Yeah imagine you could play with that

[white panther]

but she would have never beat Seth on Juggling making her weak minded in comparison

[modest coyote]

i think PK was a good ruler

id vote for PK a third time if i could

[vague jasper]

Seth does juggling?

[restive perch]

What is Seth's high score, I haven't returned to fleatopia to check

[fiery coyote]

Whatz the 3rd ending? Weaver, Sister of the Void, and?

[vague jasper]

Wait seth is in fleatopia what

I killed Seth

[white panther]

yup

[modest coyote]

no u didnt

[empty sierra]

cursed ending where you kill gms with the witch curse

[modest coyote]

listen consider this

[vague jasper]

What

[modest coyote]

what was hollownest at its peak?

[white panther]

you just need to meet Seth in 2 other places and thn he moves to Fleatopia

[modest coyote]

everyone benefits

[craggy smelt]

Seth lives, baby.
Seth lives.

[modest coyote]

free public transport

libraries

[white panther]

and puts a high score on all 3 events that you have to beat to get the memento

[vague jasper]

I just said yes to challenge seth and he kept fighting then

[vague jasper]

Oof

[modest coyote]

ask urself, what is pharloom? ww1

[vague jasper]

Not in my case then

[modest coyote]

the plot of pharloom is ww1

i am not really joking tbh

[empty sierra]

elaborate lmao

[vague jasper]

Is there any way of saving him after killing him

[modest coyote]

well like in ww1 all the rulers were cousins basically

[vague jasper]

Or new save

[white panther]

ye, it was pretty bad when the giant spider used silk to control the masses and got defeated by music

[empty sierra]

the conductors are cousins?

[modest coyote]

i mean the weavers who rebelled were kinda daughters of GMS

hornet is literally GMS granddaughter

lace is GMS child

[craggy smelt]

you don't actually kill him, he survives your fight
you'll find him first in Greymoor

[modest coyote]

everyone is cousins in silksong

[vague jasper]

Ohh that's great

[modest coyote]

even trobbio is probably grimm's third cousin

[white panther]

i honestly dont think there is a way to kill him, at least that im aware of. Go to Greymoor, between the skill totem and the Craw Lake, he should be there

[vague jasper]

I'll go check it out

[modest coyote]

i think its neat that the higher power of silksong (GMS) and the higher power of hollowknight (radiance) are both associated with silk soemwhat

obvioujsly completely different types of silk

[white panther]

after Greymoor he will be here on Shellwood

[vague jasper]

Why did the weavers rebel against GMS, didn't she create them out of common bugs

[modest coyote]

but i think its cool radiance is a silk moth

[modest coyote]

they were bored or smth idk

[craggy smelt]

I don't think we ever get clear answers, but the First Sinner suggests Silk lied to them
"She called us daughters, call us divine... she lied..."

[vague jasper]

Were the conductors involved in this

[modest coyote]

i think GMS was planning on replacing the weavers

[white panther]

maybe some realized she wasnt a benevolent leader, maybe after arresting the "sinners" and etc

[modest coyote]

or using them in some way

[vague jasper]

She says something in the lines of she said were special and all but she lied

[craggy smelt]

I lean towards GMS starting to create the silkborn, and the Weavers started to feel like they were just the means to an end

[modest coyote]

tbh the weavers seem like bitches a little cause think about it who are the weavers we see

widow? kidnapping people

first sinner? literally has sinner in name must be evil

hornet? causes 1 apocalypse

[vague jasper]

Why was GMS so cruel anyways

[craggy smelt]

well, Widow is working for Silk at that point, and the First Sinner was the first one to rebel against her 'god'

[modest coyote]

also weavers are spiders and spiders are evil

[vague jasper]

Like putting nails in widow

Imprisoning the first sinner

And capturing weavers

[modest coyote]

treason is illegal in most countries

[craggy smelt]

Weavers do seem sinister, one lore tablet assigns a weaver to watch over Shellwood in death and no longer prey upon the people there
so they preyed upon other bugs in the past

[vague jasper]

She is supposed to be their mother lol not dictator

[neat sandal]

don't know who put nail in widow

[white panther]

What i dont get is why she took some crazy effort to bring the weavers back instead of making new ones

[craggy smelt]

the worst of Silk's crimes come after she was betrayed and bound by the Weavers, we don't know what she was really like before

[modest coyote]

she probably couldnt for some reason

[vague jasper]

Looks like she deliberately accepted her punishment from GMS

Widow seemed like the only loyal weaver to GMS

[modest coyote]

either cause she was put in a coma, or she had turned all the spiders already

[craggy smelt]

she's still bound and slumbering by the events of the game, she's harvesting weavers for silk and power to awaken

[neat sandal]

More like she loyal to gms and got nail put on her by other weaver

[empty sierra]

how do you make weavers? theres like at most 2 in pharloom and they are known to have trouble reproducing

[modest coyote]

anyways my point is i think PK is the only benevolent ruler

[white panther]

oh...ye, makes sense

[modest coyote]

ewhose the second?

oh first sinner

[empty sierra]

first sinner and widow

[modest coyote]

uhh arent both of those women?

[whole hawk]

A friend of mine sent this to me and I don't know if it's real or a meme. Anyone know what it is?

[vague jasper]

How do we wake her up then, by simply challenging

[empty sierra]

yea that too

[vague jasper]

This is from the normal ending

[empty sierra]

canon

[white panther]

We get a hint how it was done with First Sinner

[craggy smelt]

dunno, she's like breaking out right there and then ig
kinda like how Rad was on the verge of escaping at the end of the first game

[whole hawk]

Oh fuck really. I never noticed that lmao.

[empty sierra]

how?

[modest coyote]

i dont think he was on the verge of escaping

[arctic mountain]

I think its fair to assume weavers are female only

[modest coyote]

i think it was in stasus

[modest coyote]

why

[vague jasper]

So we just get to her at the very right time

[craggy smelt]

sry, I mean THK was on the verge of breaking down, Rad was the one escaping

[empty sierra]

this was funny asf in my first playthrough just bc of how absurd it got lmao

[white panther]

have you seen the video after First Sinner? i dont want to spoil it for you if you havent

[empty sierra]

the video after first sinner? i defeated her idont remember a video what

you cna spoil idc ive seen most of the game

[modest coyote]

wait hold on

are there any male weavers?

[craggy smelt]

no

weavers produce hybrids and with great difficulty

[empty sierra]

they can prob reproduce with other spiders

[modest coyote]

we never see that

[empty sierra]

we dont but you can assume

[arctic mountain]

All weavers are mostly infertile females

[empty sierra]

also some people said here that there arent any pure weavers idk how true that is

[arctic mountain]

Herrah mated with a pale being in order to have a child

[empty sierra]

but it would make sense if they're only females and have to reproduce iwht other races

[modest coyote]

anymore

[arctic mountain]

Pk seed overpowered the weavers infertile nature

[craggy smelt]

i don't know about infertile, but there's some difficulty in reproducing that can only be overcome with great difficulty
Herrah did it, Hornet mentions she hasn't been able to

[vague jasper]

Weavers seems like the red room assassins

[modest coyote]

oh wait ig we do se eothers

[whole hawk]

Herrah had help from a pale stud though

[modest coyote]

spider tribe are weaver descendant right?

[empty sierra]

herrah mated with the literal most fertile dude on the planet

[vague jasper]

He made a kingdom, making a child is easy

[empty sierra]

the guy had thousands of children 😭

[craggy smelt]

the Beast tribes were native to Deepnest, the Weavers came and joined them as a sub-group

[arctic mountain]

PK really has the eugenics game on lock down

[white panther]

hopefully its not big enough to upload on discord

[vague jasper]

Bro was HIM

[visual cedar]

am I stupid I beat true ending and still dont know why that butterfly freed hornet at the start or what the butterfly even is/who sent it

[modest coyote]

"This border bounds the twisting, scratching things. Their dead sire, once of honoured caste. Their sealed mother, but the common beast. No peace with them we make.""

[empty sierra]

oh yeah i dont undersatnd what that meant so i forgot about it, whate ven is that

[whole hawk]

Lace

[vague jasper]

Herrah is part beast and part weaver then

[craggy smelt]

Lace sent it, she wanted to keep Hornet from reaching the Citadel

[modest coyote]

arent some them called "little weavers"?

[vague jasper]

Herrah doesn't look like a complete weaver anyways

[empty sierra]

lace is seen conducting the butterflies right before our first battle with her in deep docks

[arctic mountain]

Man father's 5 million children without skipping a single beat

[modest coyote]

sire implies male right?

[visual cedar]

oh bc lace doesnt like that grandma was trying to replace her?

[tawdry flare]

We Don't Talk About Little Weavers

[craggy smelt]

no, Herrah is said to be a full-blooded Weaver because Hornet is half-weaver, half-wyrm, Herrah just looks different for some reason

[modest coyote]

ok so clearly there was a sire to herrah right who just died?

[craggy smelt]

those are presumably Weavers and not native Beasts

[empty sierra]

yea jealous and crazy asf

[vague jasper]

Skill issue then ig

[whole hawk]

Herrah was retconned to be a weaver, which to be fair makes the story more interesting so I aint complaining

[narrow glacier]

The running theory is that Lace freed Hornet to sabotage GMS

[empty sierra]

actually wait i like the idea that herrah looks different BECAUSE shes the only pure blooded weaver

[arctic mountain]

The herrah retcon works it makes things flow better

[modest coyote]

herrah always looked like a weaver no?

[craggy smelt]

the 'dead sire' is the king of Deepnest, Herrah's late husband, not her father

[white panther]

Silk was using her soul infused silk to experiment and manipulate the body/genetics/soul of the poor little pharlids

[modest coyote]

i mean that it must have been a male who wouldve mated with a weaver no?

[vague jasper]

Most weavers have this common circle head design

[empty sierra]

yea but whats that got to do with how first sinner was created

or how weavers are born in general

[modest coyote]

are we sure theres no male weavers?

[craggy smelt]

Herrah married the king, presumably they would have mated, but they produced no offspring.

[vague jasper]

Weavers are made from common spider bugs

[white panther]

that's how Silk makes the weavers. The first weavers werent born, they were made by Silk just like First Sinner

[empty sierra]

it could be explained by the theory that they are half-blooded weavers and herrah is the true pure weaver

[whole hawk]

GMS turned normal bugs into weavers, thats it

[wispy phoenix]

Why do the void soaked tendrils tremor in act 3 when we play a melody next to them?

[craggy smelt]

Weavers are exclusively referred to as female - daughters, sisters, etc.

[modest coyote]

crazy

why tho

[empty sierra]

but i thought lace was the only one made out of silk, you sure the weavers are made like that too?

[visual cedar]

normal silk already reacts to hornets needolin

[modest coyote]

first sinner very clearly was already born but given higher intellect by gms

[whole hawk]

Weavers are probably all female because GMS wanted daughters

[vague jasper]

I think phantom is another full silk creation but not completely successful

[whole hawk]

Like thats probably just the reason, higher beings are all loons

[modest coyote]

im telling u PK is the only good higher being

[arctic mountain]

Weavers seem like forced evolution on Gms part, lace is silk construct of soul and silk

[white panther]

Lace is ENTIRELY made out of Silk she is an artificial creature

[wispy phoenix]

Yea but why? Is it because the melody is what surpresses gms?

[vague jasper]

Lace is not a bug

[empty sierra]

so weavers are spiders manually infused with soul-silk? and they arent "born" traditionally?

[white panther]

She was a normal pharlid that was transformed into that

[vague jasper]

Yes

[arctic mountain]

GMS created the weavers and lace because she was trying to create the perfect IVs

[teal finch]

i moreso interpret it as phantom just being Old

[modest coyote]

thats what im saying

[craggy smelt]

after the first generation, subsequent ones would be born as part weavers
pretty sure Widow is referred to as a Weaver in Quarter

[empty sierra]

ooh and first sinner is disappointed that they are artificial, and that gms lied to them that they were special and divine

[empty sierra]

ooh interesting

[vague jasper]

The room in that area clearly shows both phantom and lace asking the question of why did she make us

So phantom is another silk creation

[modest coyote]

ok so that means hornet must be literally GMS granddaughter

[empty sierra]

that makes sense too bc the source of soul infused silk in weavers is actually gms which is a pale being

[white panther]

basically, yup
Lace and Phantom as far as we know are very unique cases of artificial life made exclusively by Silk's silk

[teal finch]

yes this isnt contradictory to what im saying though

[white panther]

Silk's silk
Silk's silk
Silk's silk, silly thing

[arctic mountain]

Pk and gms both going through grand twisted means just to have a suitable family member

[modest coyote]

PK did it to try save the world

GMS did it cause shes NUTS!

[vague jasper]

I would consider lace to be the successful creation tho, it doesn't make sense why phantom would be abandoned like that

[visual cedar]

needolin is magic or whatever and reads minds so the magic probably interacts with gms silk or grandma can sense when hornet is doing that and gets mad?

[empty sierra]

but then why wouldnt gms make more weavers if that was the case then? theres a ton of spiders in pharloom

[teal finch]

in terms of comparison to lace than yeah i agree

[modest coyote]

cause shes in a coma

[visual cedar]

idk i doubt its explained explicitly anywhere

[teal finch]

lace is basically the poster child

[empty sierra]

but she created lace and phantom

[whole hawk]

Cause the weavers fucked her up

[modest coyote]

no diff

[empty sierra]

which were arguably even harder to pull off probably

full silk life

[craggy smelt]

she might not be in a hurry to create more Weavers, considering the earlier batches turned on her

[white panther]

there is a room...maybe on cradle, idr, that shows the rating of some weavers that were aimed to be captured, things like "quarter weaver, half weaver, etc"

[modest coyote]

the only accomplishment any silk being has is playing the organ

[craggy smelt]

now she wants to perfect her silkborn

[whole hawk]

And Lace and Phantom are high maintenance kids

[empty sierra]

ya she was bringing in weavers from other lands like hornet

[modest coyote]

i dont think silkborns have accomplished anything except being good at music

[empty sierra]

but if she could create them then why do that

that meanst she couldnt

[vague jasper]

I think GMS just wanted a child

[white panther]

the tablets are on Cradle right? im 90% sure

[empty sierra]

or weavers arent made that way

[modest coyote]

GMS was nuts

[arctic mountain]

If gms wanted a perfect silk born she shouldve used PK potent seed, but the kid probably would've ended up being half saw blade

[modest coyote]

idc she is clearly nuts!

[teal finch]

this is interesting to think about given that we know its very very difficult for weavers to reproduce, like damn wtf did these guys have to go through

[modest coyote]

theres no males

[vague jasper]

Dummy thicc tho

[white panther]

This also shows how much game PK got

[arctic mountain]

Silksong the game is physical proof the PK could get it

[empty sierra]

PK could PULL

[whole hawk]

Pale King clearly should have just turned up in Pharloom instead, gave GMS kids, have fantasy scifi weaver children, gain access to large amount of ore and metalworks, and best part? No Radiance

[arctic mountain]

Women love men who are obsessed with saw blades

[analog pelican]

fr

[vague jasper]

How did GMS silk and lace know that hornet was half wyrm half weaver, did they have agents spread in hallownest

[empty sierra]

given how long she was able to resist the void gms mgiht actually have soloed the radiance

[arctic mountain]

He was too busy playing with his toys in the white palace

[whole hawk]

And Pale King might bave actually nade the Citadel not a complete shithole

[analog pelican]

his toy sawblades

[empty sierra]

they probably sent a bunch of guys in far lands to gather many weavers

[vague jasper]

Nah, I believe radiance to be stronger

[empty sierra]

lke the bugs that were carrying hornet

[whole hawk]

Damn need to fill up the form again

[white panther]

hmmm well, we know that some weavers from Hallownest tried to come back to Pharloom at some point, maybe they talked about it
Or maybe Mr Mushroom went full gossip mode with the queen

[naive crag]

fuck the pale king

[arctic mountain]

If radiance was in gms position in pharloom, the kingdom would've already be long doomed and dead

[visual cedar]

we still dont know how to get the data mined alternate normal ending right

[vague jasper]

We don't know anything about mr mushroom

[empty sierra]

whats that

[white panther]

oh no no, that was just a silly joke, Mr. Mushroom would never gossip like that (MAYBE)

[empty sierra]

has anyone tried to beat the game while overdosed on lifeblood?

[modest coyote]

free public transport TOO

[visual cedar]

the one where the silk possesses shit slowly instead of exploding like in the default ending

[modest coyote]

GMS literally has done nothing for the people

PK made tram stations

public safety things (the void lighthouse)

[arctic mountain]

PK HAD INFastructure

[left glade]

can groal use soul bc he has the soul of a snail shaman

[modest coyote]

PK HAD A PROGRESSIVE TAX POLICY

[empty sierra]

PK propaganda on my server

[vague jasper]

Pale king cared about his kingdom
GMS only cared about having a child ig

[empty sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/gdfactory-gdfactoryclips-nba-throwing-paper-angry-gif-11242314510034933866

[modest coyote]

PK PAID CHILD SUPPORT UNLIKE GMS

[visual cedar]

it shows up in early "all endings" videos but afaik its not ingame?

[analog pelican]

pk made sawblades and trains the two best things on earth gms did jack shit

[white panther]

ye, it was a weird video, felt like a failed snare or failed binding of sorts and Silk won
Since there is no achievements for it i would guess they cut it out since every single endings got one

[modest coyote]

i genuinely think pale king was thhe only good higher being

every other one seems pretty evil

[empty sierra]

we dont know what other wryms were like

[visual cedar]

weird they cut it since its like fully animated

[vague jasper]

Grimme isn't exactly evil either

Nor is unn

[modest coyote]

hes not evil but his nature isnt good

[modest coyote]

barely a higher being lets be real

[empty sierra]

they could've animated the cutscenes at the same time for consistency

[analog pelican]

hes red

[arctic mountain]

Unn just wants to chill in her big acid bath

[analog pelican]

red is evil

[white panther]

What about my beloved Unn?

[modest coyote]

how many public transport projects has she accomplished?

[vague jasper]

We don't know for sure

[modest coyote]

count the tram stations people

[analog pelican]

0

absolute looser

[modest coyote]

i dont see any trams in pharloom!

[empty sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/schizophrenia-old-man-schiz-meth-gif-23864144

[modest coyote]

the elevator leads u into the fucking labour camp

[empty sierra]

how pale king apologists sound

[teal finch]

lowkey wasnt even her tho tahts like all weaver shenanigans

[white panther]

i dont see any Wendy's on Pharloom

[arctic mountain]

Pk being train pilled

[teal finch]

oh wait you re talking about unn

[modest coyote]

yeah

unn aint do shit

[analog pelican]

not even a single sawblade

[teal finch]

unns just a chill guy

[arctic mountain]

Is Grimm still alive i dont remember

[visual cedar]

does hornet count shes like 75 percent higher being

[empty sierra]

weavers had the coolest fucking teleportation tech and they just used it once in weavenest atla just for aura

[modest coyote]

no

[vague jasper]

Reborn

That's the whole point

[visual cedar]

it shows up elsewhere but broken iirc

[whole hawk]

Pharloom is an industrialized shithole. I never saw Pale King destroy entire biomes.

[empty sierra]

wheres menderbug when you need him

[arctic mountain]

If the Grimm troupe pulled up in the dlc during act 3 I wouldnt even be mad

[visual cedar]

||abyss|| has one that doesnt work i think

[analog pelican]

he was too busy building trains and sawblades

[modest coyote]

i mean it would make perfect sense

[vague jasper]

I don't think the new grimme is old enough to need to be reborn again yet

[bronze hemlock]

I'd want something different honestly.

[arctic mountain]

They just want to see the drama unfolding

[main bison]

JUST IMAGINE If in a dlc we see the knight

[empty sierra]

i want a grimm troupe ending

[tawdry flare]

why in a dlc? we already saw them

[modest coyote]

pale king is a good ruler

[visual cedar]

Grimm is related to dreams which doesnt rlly show up in silksong as a thing in general yeah? It's just like not a theme of the game

[golden olive]

1 quadrillion years could've passed between HK and SS so u never know

[main bison]

i'm in act 2 rn so ihaven't seen hm yet

[modest coyote]

i aint see no rentable benches in hollowknight

[vague jasper]

Pale king took environmentalist approaches, the conductors were not efficient

[white panther]

i dont even want more lore, i just want my boss rush mode

[modest coyote]

i aint see no forced labor camps or gestapo in hollowknight

[tawdry flare]

get off this server until you're done bro 😭

[modest coyote]

GMS has a fuckin secret police

[empty sierra]

crystal peak

[arctic mountain]

Lore is spoilers heavy finish the game tbh

[main bison]

i wsa gonna ask is mount fay 100%neccessary? I am doing a blind run

[modest coyote]

theyre not forced?

[vague jasper]

No implication that they are forced

Just miners

[empty sierra]

hmm ok

[main bison]

true, they're just mad by the infection

[modest coyote]

they seem pretty happy to be mining ngl initially

[arctic mountain]

They had golem they didn't need forced labor at crystal peak

[main bison]

look at myla as an example

[visual cedar]

they be trapping souls in robots in pharloom but hallownest be making soul amalgamations so it cancels out probably

[clear flume]

Hola

[white panther]

We are shooting heavy spoilers left and right without mercy here

[clear flume]

Xd刚才认识TV认证

[main bison]

but pharloom has inflation-

[clear flume]

地方依然

[whole hawk]

A Knight Superboss for the DLC has the perfect spot TC can slot it in by the way without it breaking the lore. Put it in Hornet's house. If you sleep in your bed, and do some arbitrary quest, you can access a memory that lets you fight the knight in greenpath for the easy version and Kingsom's edge for the hard version

[main bison]

yeah it's my fault-

[clear flume]

跟v与v

[modest coyote]

pharloom has a fucking slavery funnel

[empty sierra]

dw it got patched a couple days ago

[clear flume]

把v广场发过规范性

[modest coyote]

pharloom is comically evil

[vague jasper]

Soul sanctum did what it did prolly without much of pale king's influence

[tawdry flare]

this is the least insane/convoluted idea for a knight boss fight congratulations

[vague jasper]

It was done by soul master

[golden olive]

hallownest propaganda 🤫

[main bison]

i don't like the patched version much, i'm plahying it on the first version tc releazed

[modest coyote]

they lead pilgrims to their death, then steal their money, then force them to work in the fucking underworks and sewers

[arctic mountain]

Pharloom has multiple union violation, look at the deep docks and the fact that in greymoor, mites like mooring were breed to hunt FLEEing workers

[empty sierra]

bro they increased rosaries income 2x i was BROKE for the whole playthrough and i gotta watch my bumass friend who just started drown in rosaries

[main bison]

they even have a literal prison...

[visual cedar]

also tbf I think the soul amalgamations were just people fucking up and getting a fate worse than death right? Or am I remembering wrong

[empty sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/screaming-lex-luthor-superman-aaah-raging-gif-11297985997473498830

[teal finch]

and then turn them into lamps or experiment on them when theyre old and weak ❤️

[modest coyote]

pharloom invented a religion based entirely upon labor

[main bison]

citadel is a good place to farm rosarie

[modest coyote]

is pharloom jucheist?

[golden olive]

bugs in hallownest dont even have brains they need a fork god to give them higher thoughts 🤫 🤫 🤫 pharloom on top

[vague jasper]

Yes that is the case If I remember correctly

[empty sierra]

yeah i did that but now its not necessary anymore bc you get a TON just playing normally

[arctic mountain]

Woke silksong critizing religion and capitalism

[white panther]

Phraloom got inflation
Pharloom got religious fanatics
Pharloom invented the diagonal pogo

[vague jasper]

People won't understand the true capitalistic hell now

[empty sierra]

hollow knight WOKESONG

[modest coyote]

i mean its very obviously not a criticism of capitalism

[empty sierra]

actually i wonder what the rating is on the woke rating website

[golden olive]

its rated woke/woke

[whole hawk]

I'm thinking they can add in a new mcguffin in Act 3 that you can find and install in your house. And if you do it lets Horbet dream of wild stuff. Honestly perfect way to just go ham with old fights without going too crazy with tbe canon

[empty sierra]

whats it called again

[vague jasper]

The game can easily be a criticism of capitalism

[arctic mountain]

Team cherry balances out the woke by making all the gay characters suffer the most 😭

[vague jasper]

Destroyed enviornment, a lavish citadel working on corpses

[tawdry flare]

Melatonin DLC

[modest coyote]

is fnaf a criticism of capitalism because it satirises the work week?

[white panther]

not with that price

[teal finch]

woke content detector lmfao

[golden olive]

ehhh hornet was pretty ok in terms of suffering

[vague jasper]

It being cheap also makes it kind anti capitalism

[vague jasper]

Idk I haven't played fnaf

[modest coyote]

the answer is no

just because something has elements of something, doesnt mean it is that thing

[arctic mountain]

Dont worry there's still time for the dlcs to traumatize her more

[white panther]

should be free
and they should pay us to play
and added some large fries and dino nuggets with it

[modest coyote]

silksong is not about capitalism ]

[vague jasper]

It's just that it has so many elements of it

[coral night]

I need to restart my savefile then 😂 I will actually have tools now

[modest coyote]

i dont think spongebob is a criticism of capitalism

[vague jasper]

Seems like a major part

[empty sierra]

you dont have to its already applied

[coral night]

So, kapitalisme?

[modest coyote]

i dont think spongebob is a communist show just because mr krabs is a bad boss

[vague jasper]

They gotta eat

[tawdry flare]

im not seeing it on the steam group or the spreadsheet

[modest coyote]

juche actually

[muted lantern]

Is the guy who gives you the song in high halls dead in act 3m

[tawdry flare]

i do see deltarune though and its amazing that they of all people got kris' gender correct

[coral night]

But all the rosarie totems are empty now

[empty sierra]

they must be reviewing it as we speak 🙏

[vague jasper]

They could also charge us 2000 dollars for the game with 500$ dlcs and monthly paid online subscription

[empty sierra]

oh right, well farm up some and the next area ones should be good

[tawdry flare]

can't wait

[modest coyote]

i dont think the simpsons is anticapitalist just cause mr burns is a bad boss

[white panther]

They should, those damn gamers are too used to get things for free nowadays!!

[vague jasper]

Hell yah

[coral night]

We must reform pharloom into a true communist area. Everyone has to die atleast 25 times to a boss

[modest coyote]

they already have a cold prison network

theyre halfway there

[white panther]

i mean, we have 7 years of dev salary to pay them for this game

[tawdry flare]

wow i found another review that is just. blatantly racist. anyway back to silksong talk

[coral night]

Are the nuggets send by mail? Cause that will be some moldy packages

[white panther]

you guys better get the deluxe edition

[arctic mountain]

Hornet and laces lesbian gestapo is going to fix pharloom #woke

[vague jasper]

I think they have 70 years worth of salary rn

[tawdry flare]

Lace is A CHILD!!!!!!!!!

[modest coyote]

hornet calls lace "child"

[empty sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/walter-white-walter-hank-walter-screaming-walter-yelling-gif-26473309

no hank lace is a child

[naive crag]

what was i gonna say i forgot

[golden olive]

guys lets be real

[arctic mountain]

there also technically family 💀

[naive crag]

oh yeah hornet x shakra

[tawdry flare]

dont say what i think youre about to say

[modest coyote]

theyre literally first cousins

[naive crag]

hornet x shakra is better than lacenet no matter WHAT

[golden olive]

the caretaker's line about lace is awful

[arctic mountain]

Shakra supremacy

[vague jasper]

Shakra won't stick in pharloom I believe

[arctic mountain]

She goes to city of steel in the dlc and dies knowing how team cherry writes tragedy

[tawdry flare]

shakra gave hornet 20 rings. which could mean nothing

[modest coyote]

whats city of steel