sk-lore

[lavish tide]

Hornet is void

[dark rune]

[craggy smelt]

pretty funny

[timber pond]

The steel soul exclusive quest intertwined the plot of the games with these "city of steel" denizens that could be expanded upon. If you dont know what Im talking about here.https://youtu.be/QfU3ljLJIkk?si=oXnvbKRhXR-s32HG

[sinful nimbus]

oh that's insane

[wary plover]

Where

[craggy smelt]

wait, nevermind

[neat sandal]

the connect about those quest and city of steel
they made from steel does not mean they come from city of steel

[timber pond]

Bro they are made of steel and Zi gives you what she calls a Steel spear tip from her birth😭

[craggy smelt]

it's true that no one ever explicitly says that the steelheart bugs come from the city of steel
(but come on)

[foggy fractal]

does it have to be Seamstress' ? I mean ig no other character happens to be near by who could also hold a pin
we do know that her and pinstress are sisters and are from the same group of warriors so it makes sense

[lavish tide]

Why does trobbio kinda look like an ant? Is he the pale king?

[dark rune]

anyone else find it funny that pharloom has better robots than we have irl

[bronze hemlock]

Are there 2 cursed endings actually? Lost Lace seems real fucking hard with no healing though.

[craggy smelt]

Hallownest had started to develop golem technology
I wonder if it hadn't fallen into ruin if it would have reached the same level as Pharloom

[novel eagle]

I cant help but feel like the skarr bugs were just a singing troupe who were skilled warriors
Peaceful people under the rule of Karmelita turned bitter after Grand mother usurped all the ruler's power in pharloom?

[foggy fractal]

iirc you can't do lost lace without removing the curse

[craggy smelt]

that's right

[foggy fractal]

I have no footage of it tho but thats what I heard

[lavish tide]

ZOTE HAS BEEN TO PHARLOOM, IT SAYS HIS SWORD IS MADE OF SHELLWOOD

[craggy smelt]

it won't let you dive with it, Hornet says the parasite reacts to the Void so she has to remove it

[crisp basalt]

Hello There

[foggy fractal]

also someone could probably do it even whilst curse people are getting good

[bronze hemlock]

Lol. Hi Creature.

[crisp basalt]

Hi Hi

[bronze hemlock]

Awwww. That sucks.

Imagine if act 3 cursed ending was even worse than act 2.

[crisp basalt]

Oh really? What blocks you?

[timber pond]

ZOTE was raised by Craws confirmed

[sinful nimbus]

Parasite hates void for some reason

[crisp basalt]

Ah Funny and.... Intriguing

[neat sandal]

How you can connect like that?
So there is place called Blackbarrens
and everyone in hollowknight is black
can I sure about the connection? 💀

[midnight vault]

Imagine if they do a godhome fight we get an oro and motto sibling duo fight but with the pinmasters instead

[foggy fractal]

Hornet with the roots in her are already struggling
imagine void gets into those roots

[foggy fractal]

I could see it

[crisp basalt]

I love that after you beat up the Crawfather they start to pay you tribute

[craggy smelt]

yes

[crisp basalt]

They know who Not to mess with

[pseudo lily]

Hornet becomes a homeowner with passive income. She's moving up in the world.

[craggy smelt]

Blackbarrens is Blackwyrm turf

[lavish tide]

Did you guys know bell beast is a worm

[timber pond]

Because there has been 2 instances of these individuals seen, establishing that a civilization sent them and they are organized to do something for thier masters.

[quick cairn]

I've done every ending now, and I lowkey hate that Silksong confirms nothing about which ending is canon from HK1
I guess they all really are equally canon like they said

[pseudo lily]

It, uh, is not. It has legs. And eyes. And a mouth. And a shell. And many other things that worms do not have.

[lavish tide]

It’s the hollow knight and the pale king then?

[timber pond]

Not true, the knight knows how to use shade lord powers and the hollow knight is not a shade in the abyss.

If it were dream no more, in my eyes, The Hollow Knights massive shade would be there with the others

[quick cairn]

so you think Godseekers is canon ? E3 also seems like a valid candidate

[pseudo lily]

It confirms either DNM or EtV. Which one it is is ambiguous.

[lavish tide]

The worms in worm ways have those features

[timber pond]

I think its cannon over Dream No More because the hollow knight would have returned to the abyss with little ghost and the other shades

[cloud plover]

worm ways was such a weird area

[tawdry flare]

It confirms both as the endings that lead into Silksong

[cloud plover]

seems so disconnected from everything else in pharloom

[craggy smelt]

also, TK stays away until the everbloom is good and gone

[quick cairn]

my take is that Shade Lord doesn't need Godseekers to become a thing and it just became a thing on it's own

[tawdry flare]

Okay well you can think that but both the endings lead into Silksong

[quick cairn]

true

[cloud plover]

well the shade lord is undoubtedly a thing on its own, we just don’t know what really made it manifest into the world

[sinful nimbus]

Its the lord of shades amped up with godly focus

Hence "Void given focus" and Godseeker acknowledging it as the same entity as The Knight

[spark valve]

Either

[pseudo lily]

You know, it irrationally irks me that Shade Lord is the term we give to Bill, when in canon the shade in DNM is called that.

[timber pond]

I think its a power that must be learned by any particular shade and Little ghost was the one who did.

The arcane Egg in silksong mentions shades, so aperrently they were a thing before hallownest, and this iteration we see is what the pale king managed to remake

[cloud plover]

aren’t these the same thing

the lord of shades and shade lord

[spark valve]

Some battles are already lost

[sinful nimbus]

Lord of Shades refers to The Knight with Void Heart, Shade Lord is the unofficial name for Void Given Focus/The thing at the end of P5

[spark valve]

Ofc they are the same entity

[cloud plover]

i see

[timber pond]

No one talks about the fact that Shades could be diffrent. Or rather were diffrent in the past because they were an idea the ancient civilization possessed

[pseudo lily]

Other terms to refer to Void Given Focus are God of Gods and Bill.

[quick cairn]

why was GoG dubbed Bill

[cloud plover]

bill… from gravity falls

[sinful nimbus]

I'm inventing a time machine and strangling the person who tried making the name "Bill" stick for VGF and against all odds succeeded

[muted lantern]

What is the dialogue the snail shaman in first shrine has after you beat lace? I don't really remember what it was exactly

[pseudo lily]

Do we know that shades as we have come to know them ever existed in the past? We see shade written in certain places, but, like, they could just be referring to void in general.

[pseudo lily]

90% sure that was mossbag.

[cloud plover]

i’m not sure how but i’ve never heard it referred to as bill

[quick cairn]

omfg you're right

he did call it Bill

[cloud plover]

what video

[sinful nimbus]

[Hornet]: Sir, I have opened the way above these halls, and bested the white knight that stood as guardian.
[Hornet]: Child of the monarch, she claimed herself at the end, and her shell suggested it true, a being born purely from Silk woven tight.
[Hornet]: That such a feat is possible... I have seen life woven from Silk before, but tiny, transient... Never like this...
[NPC]: Aye, bellringer! You've slain a marvel indeed... Well, flawed marvel, at least.[NPC]: One to keep far from she was, least for us mortal sorts. Look of a child and a mind to match, but her's been up wanderin' this Citadel longer'n most. Even in its long silence, way 'fore you came and roused its ire.
[NPC]: Might'a seen herself this place's protector, keepin' it clean and quiet as she did. Course quiet meant most crossin' her path found a painful end from her pin.[NPC]:I'd be sayin' thanks for the slaying, but with all the other husks now awoken and enraged, a bug's chances ain't grown by much.

[pseudo lily]

https://youtu.be/0XDiWYFGGqY?si=9qEBx7VQ1epLxSch&t=4271

[timber pond]

I think its more complicated than that. It's not "as we know them" its the opossite. We don't know if Shades as we know them work the same now as they did in the past.

But perhaps any bug could become a shade if born inside of the void with a shell?

[sinful nimbus]

The source of all ills in this community...

[cloud plover]

damn i haven’t seen this one in years

[pseudo lily]

I don't think he made r/Silksong

[quick cairn]

daft question are both Trobbios the same guy ?

[sinful nimbus]

yeah

[pseudo lily]

Yeah, he just got depressed.

[sinful nimbus]

r/Silksong is a great place I check it everyday

[muted lantern]

Trobbio 2 is actually trobbios even gayer twin brother

[wary plover]

Beside trobbio, hornet and lace are there any other cool morally grey characters

[muted lantern]

But jokes aside yes, if you check his body after the first fight you can see he's just playing dead

[muted lantern]

Snail shamans

[cloud plover]

does anyone have any lore on nyleth

[timber pond]

Like, all thr snail shamans who make a fucking portal to the void😂

[muted lantern]

She's kinda the unn of this region, a nature goddess

[quick cairn]

why is Trobbio morally grey ? I think I've missed like 5 pages about him

[pseudo lily]

I mean, Hornet is getting pretty far from morally gray these days.

[wary plover]

Is nyleth the one who hisses master all the time

[sinful nimbus]

Same species as isma it seems, she created the plants of shellwood

[wary plover]

She attacked the knight, twice!

[cloud plover]

i don’t think so

[pseudo lily]

That's Styx.

[cloud plover]

oh that is really interesting

[muted lantern]

Also also does anyone else realize that nyleths face appears on those flowers that lunge out at you in shell wood? Her influence is still felt

[sinful nimbus]

Calling Hornet a morally gray character is crazy

[cloud plover]

the isma part

[muted lantern]

She did murk a good few of her siblings

[wary plover]

What do you mean

[pseudo lily]

She's, like, morally #FEFEFE

[sinful nimbus]

That's justified

[barren valley]

and green prince 😭

[spark valve]

can't believe hornet has a slave

[muted lantern]

Lol

[quick cairn]

little bro was in fact missing his big sis so much that he paid her a visit

[pseudo lily]

He wanted it tbh

[barren valley]

true!! cancel her

[nimble ocean]

Best gay couple

[honest spade]

i like that the Red Memory is of areas and stuff we know but 😭 Hornet why you remembering that place?
guess she really did go SHAW due to those

[muted lantern]

I feel hornets the victim in that relationship lmao

[pseudo lily]

I feel like it's more like she paid them a visit.

[sinful nimbus]

She learned it from WL

[pseudo lily]

Also, I'm like 67% sure TK is the older sibling.

[crisp basalt]

Trobbios gayer twin Throbbio

[quick cairn]

you think ?

[sinful nimbus]

TK could be younger or older

[barren valley]

idk I was definitely not comfy with all the voices hornet could or did make in silksong

[muted lantern]

There's a long line of trobbios that are increasingly more goth and dramatic

[quick cairn]

wait he can be

[drowsy mortar]

So wait

[barren valley]

surely TK would have to be older right?

[sinful nimbus]

not necessarily

[muted lantern]

Hornets voice goes crazy deep when she imitates shakras ring greeting

[barren valley]

because all the vessels were made around the same time

[drowsy mortar]

Is the Hornet evolution ending achieveable in game or is it cut content?

[pseudo lily]

I feel like it makes the most sense to me for Hornet to have only been born after a viable vessel was produced, because it would be putting the cart before the horse otherwise.

[crisp basalt]

Yeah whole Dreamer thing happens after they realize Pure Vessel isn't pure enough

[quick cairn]

TK was made at the same time as all others no ?

[spark valve]

I mean they were kinda committed to that plan either way I'm not sure it matters

[drowsy mortar]

Because I don't see any way to proc it that's been documented

[vivid kernel]

Are spoilers okay in here??

[muted lantern]

Which one? The one where she gets more arms or the bad ending where threads go into people's brains? The latter is cut the other is normal

[drowsy mortar]

(The one where she looks like PK)

[muted lantern]

Yes it's the lore chat

[vivid kernel]

ah spoilers are fine

[quick cairn]

Ye because otherwise why would PK need Herah

[muted lantern]

I think this is cut yeah

[barren valley]

they’re close either way, but it would make most sense to me if hornet is younger

[sinful nimbus]

Yes what do you think of the shade lord bossfight

[prisma quail]

Is there a reason why Ballow and the Forge Daughter are sane

[barren valley]

just in terms of the plan

[vivid kernel]

there is no Shade Lord boss

[crisp basalt]

Too Focused on work to fall into insanity

So they Resist the Haunting

[vivid kernel]

anyways, I compiled all of Mr. Mushrooms dialogue

since the last time we saw him he was probably talking about Silksong

[muted lantern]

They huff forge fumes to get high and granny silk doesn't want nothin to do with that shit

[barren valley]

silk knows that the forge daughter’s will is stronger than hers

[vivid kernel]

probably the fact that Deep Docks is burning 24/7, silk probably cant settle there

[crisp basalt]

Eh, His last dialogue he literally states that he only lives in the present

[quick cairn]

it can since others are haunted

the real reason is that the game needed NPCs in that area

[vivid kernel]

"Though maybe not yet, not this present, hmmm? Maybe in a future far, when your actions might hail me so again?"

[prisma quail]

Everyone else is haunted

[crisp basalt]

Right...

[crisp basalt]

I think it's just that they are sane enough to resist

[prisma quail]

Some bugs just built different

[muted lantern]

Is the normal ending necessarily a bad ending? Lace is still alive and the kingdom doesn't explode, but does hornet become just as bad as silk just by virtue of ascending? Does it change her that much as a person?

[quick cairn]

we don't know

[crisp basalt]

The point is we don't know

[golden olive]

we don't really know how hornet changes but lace is probably not going to survive tbh

[crisp basalt]

For what we know this was always the plan of GMS

[quick cairn]

Ascended Hornet can be equally as bad as GMS or worse actually or a good God

[muted lantern]

I do want to see some weaver queen designs of hornet tho

[prisma quail]

Isn’t the normal ending where GMS just dies (haven’t completed the true ending yet)

[muted lantern]

How so

[crisp basalt]

Hornet binds her power to herself

[muted lantern]

The one where you bind her and become queen

[vivid kernel]

He is literally called Herald
which by definition means "bringer of news"

[prisma quail]

But isn’t the point of the trap quest to be able to replace GMS

[muted lantern]

So do you think sister of the void is a more positive ending overall?

[crisp basalt]

Trap Quest yes, trap is not Normal ending

[muted lantern]

I kinda think so just because hornet gets her freedom

[sinful nimbus]

Mr Mushroom is the Tom Bombadil of the HKverse

[quick cairn]

so GMS made all Weavers? and they were transformed into Weavers from random spider-like bugs right?

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah

[sinful nimbus]

Pharlids to be specific

[crisp basalt]

Sisters of the Void is probably the definite True Ending this time

[quick cairn]

oh totally

[crisp basalt]

Since it can actually be followed up

[pseudo lily]

It's actually the opposite. Trap quest was ostensibly a way to defeat Silk without binding her thread and replacing her. It, uh, backfired.

[muted lantern]

My main issue with it is that a lot of good characters die, flick the fixer garmond, the snails, etc

[prisma quail]

Oh so the normal ending is the one after act 3, and there’s more past that?

[quick cairn]

ending 1 feels like a big what if

[prisma quail]

Oh

[crisp basalt]

Normal Ending is you Beat her and Bind with her to become new Ruler

Trap is path to the True Ending

[pseudo lily]

And also the all but canon lacenet imagery

[quick cairn]

and all because of Lace !

[crisp basalt]

But not the ending itself

[muted lantern]

I do not think lacenet is canon, every aspect of the game describes her as being a child, having the body of a child, and the mind of a child

[pseudo lily]

It's sort of passing into 500 year old teenager, yeah.

[quick cairn]

actually do we have a rough estimate of Lace's age?

[sinful nimbus]

But its overall better also Garmond would've been haunted anyway

[sinful nimbus]

she's ollllld

[pseudo lily]

Also garmond was old. He had a good run.

[pseudo lily]

She's stated by someone (cant remember who) to be as old as they can remember.

[quick cairn]

Garmond was the goat

[muted lantern]

Also hornet compares lace to thk so I imagine the intended dynamic is more of a found family sibling thing

[sinful nimbus]

"Look of a child and a mind to match, but her's been up wanderin' this Citadel longer'n most."

[timber pond]

What would the conflict of a Steel City game even be 🤔

[pseudo lily]

Yeah, that probably makes more sense.

[pseudo lily]

wait but when is this comparison

[muted lantern]

They are trying to steal your city

[nimble ocean]

Wow

[muted lantern]

After you beat lace the second time, she talks about how she isn't really alive and hornet says she's seen others make the same mistake

[quick cairn]

Hornet and Lace are technically related

[timber pond]

You joke but mabye. Sula confirms they always go to a land of dying bugs for some reason

[prisma quail]

When does she say that

[quick cairn]

when you talk to her after fight 2

[muted lantern]

Read my message 2 messages above

[nimble ocean]

What about the guy on mount fay taking you to the land of storms ina dlc with a new boss and ending

[muted lantern]

This also

[timber pond]

Fuck I completely forgot about the land of storms

[pseudo lily]

I mean, the one thing we know concretely about Land of Storms is that there is fuckall there. The godseekers claim it to be without gods, and they call fucking MMC a god.

[mellow pewter]

why does hornet silk the citadel in weaver queen im so confused. Did she turn evil or smth?

[nimble ocean]

It coukd be super chaotic and fun but rly rly hard

[muted lantern]

It's vague, it could have been a trick to take over hornet, or godhood corrupted her, or it's just imagery of her ascending

[quick cairn]

we don't know whether ascended Hornet would be good or evil

[mellow pewter]

why does she silk the citadel then?

[timber pond]

I mean

[pseudo lily]

It could also be something to do with all that power awakening her innate instinct to rule she inherited from her father.

[quick cairn]

I mean ascending to Godhood should be grand no>

[timber pond]

It seems the silk absorbs all the soul out of everything😂

Thats kinda inherently evil I guess

[neat sandal]

what ending you talking about?

[quick cairn]

I don't think it's the property of silk

[mellow pewter]

weaver queen

[quick cairn]

first ending of the game

[neat sandal]

ah. I think she overdose silk and she have to release it

[quick cairn]

funny thing is if GMS is really Grandma of Hornet (in literal sense) Lace is her auntie

[mellow pewter]

but she becomes a god of silk

how would the god of silk overdose on silk

its hornets domain as a god now

[muted lantern]

Do you guys think lace will have any lasting effects from her void affliction?

[quick cairn]

surely

[crisp basalt]

Hornet Probably has to Metamorphose into more Godly Form First

Hence the whole Cocoon thing

[quick cairn]

Hornet is pulling of Wyrm -> Pale King but in reverse

[polar yacht]

Hornet is only half pale being and doesn't have enough ppl worshipping her to attain any kind of legit godlike power

[crisp basalt]

That's why she is stealing GMS godly power instead

[quick cairn]

she would be taking over GMS's spot

[polar yacht]

she would still become strong af but nowhere near what gms was on the precipice of

[crisp basalt]

Yes Even she mentions that

When you start the Silk and Soul Quest

That she has that innate desire to take rule in her

[quick cairn]

the wyrm blood runs strong

[muted lantern]

Do we ever see flick the fixer body or is it possible he lived

[quick cairn]

on my save he lived

[pseudo lily]

I thought he does live?

[crisp basalt]

Oh Flick is in the Second Camp

[quick cairn]

you can save him if you talk to him enough

[gleaming creek]

What happened to Verandia?

[crisp basalt]

They make new one in Old Flea spot

[bronze hemlock]

Flick is not Pilby.

[neat sandal]

he live at old flea caravan place now

[crisp basalt]

Also yeah

[pseudo lily]

Just kinda died out.

[bronze hemlock]

Destroyed. Reduced to ashes.

[muted lantern]

Oh thank God I loved him

[crisp basalt]

"Destined to be forgotten"

[muted lantern]

Flick is so babygirl

[gleaming creek]

Was it the pollution from Pharloom's industry?

[neat sandal]

but I not found the worm trader yet?
where is he?

[quick cairn]

anyway big bro saved his little sister from dying or something worse. Family 💪

[pseudo lily]

It's possible.

[muted lantern]

What happened to the guy in pilgrims rest? He dead?

[bronze hemlock]

Green Prince #2 tried to save Verdania by becoming 2 gay robot lovers.
Too bad it did basically nothing.

[polar yacht]

only canon hk ending is obviously mister mushroom because mister mushroom is in silksong meaning that the mister mushroom ending had to have been obtained

[pseudo lily]

His corpse is in the big vertical room in far fields.

[crisp basalt]

Yeah next to the broken cage

You can even play music for him

[bronze hemlock]

You can use Needolin on WAY too much stuff.

[gleaming creek]

Cuz, coral area we know what happened, it dried out.
Ant area lost its queen and the silk spread among the ant populace.
But Verandia's fate seems completely unknown, which makes it sadder 😢

[crisp basalt]

True

[bronze hemlock]

😭

[coarse sapphire]

So GMS is trapped in a coccun because Lace betrayed her so she made everyone cursed right? And she was a normal queen before that?

[quick cairn]

that's good but also holy moly hidden lore

[bronze hemlock]

I think literally every enemy has a needolin flavor text too.

[crisp basalt]

Tbf that was also true for Dream Nail

[quick cairn]

not every but ye

wait Pharloom is kinda fucked anyway

[gleaming creek]

To be fair, most of enemy dialogue is just them going "gotta work like a good little wage slave" or "I wanna claw your eyes out"

[quick cairn]

since Lifeblood will now run rampart

throught the kingdom

[gleaming creek]

Lifeblood is the least of Pharloom's problems

[quick cairn]

is it?

[bronze hemlock]

Yes.

[coarse sapphire]

Can anyone explain please

[quick cairn]

with ending 3 what even endangeres it

[cold canopy]

I think they can handle that one

[muted lantern]

They should let us murk kratt

[gleaming creek]

I think she was always a goddess.

[quick cairn]

future DLC trust

I wonder if Godseekers will make a comeback

[bronze hemlock]

Kratt unfortunately has to live for Flea Bounce.

This is the worst possible timeline.

[quick cairn]

I'd love to see Grim Troupe actually

see whatever happened to Grimm

[bronze hemlock]

Eh.

I want new stuff.

[gleaming creek]

What happened is that GMS threw a hissy fit after Weavers (her original creations) left, so she created Lace and Phantom to replace her beloved Weavers.

Needless to say, Lace and Phantom hate their mother, who is getting more tyranical and monstrous by the day.

[timber pond]

No it was the weavers collectively and the citadel had a system to keep her asleep while weavers ruled. Until she awake and punished them

[bronze hemlock]

Not more call backs.

[quick cairn]

because for all we know Grimm is in the Void with TK

[quick cairn]

they actually betrayed her

[coarse sapphire]

So EVERYONE betrayed her?

[gleaming creek]

The Void dragged Grimm after he tried to avoid paying child support.

[quick cairn]

even tried to replace her with Eva, but failed

[gleaming creek]

Yeah.

[coarse sapphire]

Oh man

That's kinda sad tbh

[quick cairn]

I feel nothing but sympathy for GMS actually

she had it rough

her own creations hated her, even betrayed

[coarse sapphire]

But what about the first sinner? Wasnt she betrayed by her?

[crisp basalt]

First Sinner was the First Weaver GMS made

[timber pond]

I mean like when your nature is to use your silken threads to control everyone, everyone's not gonna like you lol

[quick cairn]

all Weavers eventually decided to betray GMS, including First Sinner

actually all but Widow

[muted lantern]

Can someone remind me what exactly it was about lace going into the trap that caused an apocalypse?

I forgor

[coarse sapphire]

Wasnt it like "she called us her child... She lied"?

[crisp basalt]

Tbf we don't know who is really at fault here

[crisp basalt]

GMS fought against void to save lace

[bronze hemlock]

Lace got trapped in void and GMS thrashing about trying to save her is destroying Pharloom.

[crisp basalt]

Otherwise she would probably just let it take her

And the void threads wouldn't be a thing

[timber pond]

No it was more like "she said we were special"

[coarse sapphire]

So the snail shamans didnt try to do anything bad they didnt expect the apocalypse to happen

[muted lantern]

Hmm, what is the line where it said that? I remember hearing it but not the actual text

[quick cairn]

GMS grabbed Hornet to take her down with her but Lace interveened and she took her place basically

[timber pond]

They just used a portal to teleport the void right under her

[coarse sapphire]

So they are good guys

[lucid smelt]

do we think the snail shamans are anywhat related to the ancient civilization?

[muted lantern]

Looks like you're going to the shadow realm, jumbo?

[bronze hemlock]

No, I think they were still bad. They completely hid what their plans were from Hornet and hid their true nature's.

[crisp basalt]

It's also what allows those void threads to exist

That are there reason everything is getting corrupted

[bronze hemlock]

Hornet probably would have had 2nd thoughts if they revealed themselves and told her their true plan.

[crisp basalt]

Tbf just like they themself said, Hornet should have predicted that

[muted lantern]

I think its likely they are more of a tribe of scholars in the forbidden and occult, they mainly hold power over soul, maybe late descendents of the ancient civ but it doesn't seem like they remember it

[crisp basalt]

They are snails afterall

[bronze hemlock]

She knows using the void as a tool is way too fucking dangerous.

[ionic helm]

was the court of the craw actually trying to enact justice? do they believe that hornet did something wrong?

[gleaming creek]

Who is the king of Pharloom?

[quick cairn]

to be fair, snails were thinking that Hornet knew what she was about to do

[bronze hemlock]

Prpbbaly kick-start the apocalypse.

[crisp basalt]

Hornet Herself Considers herself responsible

Which is probably why she answers the summon

[lucid smelt]

they seem to have more control over void than soul in silksong though

[muted lantern]

Also did any other person identify them all as snails individually before getting that quest because of their needolin dialogue?

[gleaming creek]

They're not wrong about it tho. Hornet is indirectly responsible for it. It's likely that they don't know the full story, but I doubt they care, they have a bone to pick with her and probably took any excuse.

[crisp basalt]

I think point is if you have enough control over one you can tap into the other

[quick cairn]

I made the connection with 2 of them

[muted lantern]

They still use soul magic, they just used their own soul to make a portal straight into the void, the whole quest is gathering the snails soul not their void

[quick cairn]

just not the one that lived under Bellhart

[timber pond]

I've come to belive that they don't even control void, they just used soul to create a portal into the void

[lucid smelt]

only the one in the ruined chapel and the hermit, didn't get that vibe from the caretaker at all

[muted lantern]

I found him too

[quick cairn]

I found him too but just did not connect the dots

that he is a snail, other 2 were kinda obvious

especially the earliest one

[bronze hemlock]

I didn't remember Hollow Knight lore so I forgot Snail Shamans were a thing going into Silksong.

[lucid smelt]

so was pharloom the weavers original home or was it hallownest?

[quick cairn]

it was Pharloom

[crisp basalt]

I feel like the Soul In the Bilewater that Gave the Frog Vengefull Spirit was supposed to foreshadow you if you didn't pick up they are snails yet

[muted lantern]

I was very thorough in my playthrough, the only help I got to find the true ending was someone pointing out double jump is on mount fay (I thought you needed it to get up mount fay) and I also asked to be pointed in the right direction of the true ending and then found the quest in bellhart before people replied,

[lucid smelt]

[muted lantern]

I like that the true ending is fairly findable on your own if you aren't b lining through to the end

[quick cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-basketball-ice-dunk-hornet-gif-3999940650987546913

[crisp basalt]

They Could Manipulate Soul and even Void to an extent since they are source of both base spells and the empowered versions

[muted lantern]

And do side quests, narratively I feel its hornet falling in love with the world and it's people

[bronze hemlock]

I dunno. I think making finding every single flea a requirement isn't very obvious.

[lucid smelt]

so many people in the help chat leaving all the side quests til the very end

[pseudo lily]

If I can be a pedant, it's not every flea. IIRC it's 25/30.

[bronze hemlock]

Ok, now I feel like an idiot going through the whole map for them. Lol.

[muted lantern]

You don't need all fleas? I found enough for fleatopia before I unlocked the one with map, I found like 28 most of the fleas by just exploring every corner

[left glade]

how is the abyss in silksong

[muted lantern]

Short

[quick cairn]

harder than in HK

[crisp basalt]

Abyss is everywhere

[lucid smelt]

its at the bottom of the world, regardless where in the world

[timber pond]

It spans the entire world aprently

[crisp basalt]

Below the world

[left glade]

like its under every place?

[pseudo lily]

One of the journal entries implies that if you go low enough, you always find the abyss.

[crisp basalt]

If you dig deep enough yes

[left glade]

oh that makes sense

[bronze hemlock]

Every place does have something under it.

[muted lantern]

It's like the void in rain world, it's just in the center of the world everywhere

[quick cairn]

abyss is like a layer that's under enough dirt and rock

[crisp basalt]

It's literally the exact thing I was thinking lmao

[manic bobcat]

Slugcat dlc when

[muted lantern]

Survivor would die painfully so quick in pharloom lmao

[crisp basalt]

We already have it, Hornet can Slugcat Backflip

[muted lantern]

Artificer might have a chance

[crisp basalt]

Spear Master would be so Op

[muted lantern]

Any slugcat who goes to the void comes out of the void in HK, this is where bugs come from

[manic bobcat]

Gourmand rolling up and crushing lace immediately

[muted lantern]

Throws one spear and kills grandmother silk

Gourm spears are scary

[crisp basalt]

Gourm Spear would deal 3 masks of dmg

[manic bobcat]

Maxing my affinity with scavs pre-GMS, causing them to swarm her on the fight start

[left glade]

so does life blood corrupt every non higher being

[pseudo lily]

It seems like it would be able to corrupt higher beings too if consumed in high enough quantities.

[tame helm]

Anyone knows why hornet was captured? What do they need her silk for

[left glade]

then why doesnt the knight seem to get corrupted

[neat sandal]

[Hornet]:Then you have miscalculated, gravely. The white knight, she fell with the mother...<page=M>Oh ho... The quakes, yes? We have felt their force, even here. So the mother resists the dark... to save the child?[Hornet]:That is my guess. I must descend to the void below, and see clear that truth for

[pseudo lily]

<page=M>
🔥

[muted lantern]

Grandma silk wants it for lace presumably, or some revenge against the weavers or other plan regarding binding them all

[zinc dove]

Isn't Hornet made of ||void|| as well as silk?

[tame helm]

Okay ty i think i need to understand the rest of the lore first

[foggy fractal]

no

[zinc dove]

since she's the child of ||the weaver dreamer and the pale king||

[pseudo lily]

She's not "made of" either. She has seemingly no physical connection to void, and she can produce and manipulate silk.

[pseudo lily]

Also, no need for spoilers here. Here we are free.

[crisp basalt]

But Yeah Hornet is Just Half Weaver Half Wyrm

[zinc dove]

I forgot how vessels acquired void in the first place tbh

[steady prawn]

i wonder if part of the betrayl of ||silkmother|| is that || her children didnt eat her|| like most spiders do and like other ||chracters in the game do||

[crisp basalt]

She is not made of anything per se

[foggy fractal]

why would that make her void anyway ? because of pk ?

[steady prawn]

soul

[crisp basalt]

They got dunked into the abyss

[quick cairn]

not again

Hornet isn't void.

she cannot be void, she has no ties to void outside of her big bro being a Shade Lord

[steady prawn]

hornet is black the void is black horenet is void

[crisp basalt]

Actual Danteh moment

[pseudo lily]

So true

[obsidian quail]

probably little

[crisp basalt]

She hates void so much too

[quick cairn]

ye I got PTSD

[steady prawn]

explain the black in the cocoon then

[zinc dove]

Makes sense, so the Knight is just a vessel with materialized void in it

[steady prawn]

i think all creature have some void in them from regrets

[pseudo lily]

I love how she crashed out for the first and only time in the game when she realized the snail shamans were using void.

[steady prawn]

so does hornet

[quick cairn]

if Hornet was void, she wouldn't be known as "gendered child" as a "princess protector"

[steady prawn]

but she is not wholly void

[crisp basalt]

Well she also crashes out in the Prison if you get captured

[obsidian quail]

she’s not void at all, she specifically says so in HK

[deft dragon]

are we sure the knight is the shade lord?

[steady prawn]

then why cocoon void

[obsidian quail]

yes

[deft dragon]

because they showed up as the lord of shades

[bronze hemlock]

Sister of the Void makes it pretty explicit.

[quick cairn]

what if it's not void ?

[crisp basalt]

Yes, but it might not be Just the Knight

[steady prawn]

but its black and round

[obsidian quail]

idk what the weird black thing was but it wasn’t a shade, some gameplay thing

[craggy smelt]

it's just a stain of regret, don't think about it

[zinc dove]

I understand void is the opposing force of Radiance but idk really what it is

[steady prawn]

boid

[quick cairn]

just as her body

[crisp basalt]

Looks more like a Collective manifestation of Siblings just Lead by Knight

[obsidian quail]

it’s not void

[quick cairn]

it's one of those, don't worry about it moments

[obsidian quail]

she has been stated over and over to not be void

[quick cairn]

and have no void whatsoever

[deft dragon]

who is calling hornet void?

[steady prawn]

just wait till godmaster 2 confirms she has a little void in her like all bugs do

[fiery coyote]

By whom though? Seems suspicious

[steady prawn]

void is created by negative emotion like regret and anger

[foggy fractal]

by that logic basically every bug is void because their limbs are black

[steady prawn]

yep

that is my logic

[crisp basalt]

She is also Half Pale being so she is naturally anti void

[obsidian quail]

by herself and other characters and the creators

[fiery coyote]

IDK how to tell you this but the pale king loved the void

[quick cairn]

Hornet has been stated to NOT be void by both games and creators

[obsidian quail]

he didn’t love the void he just used it

[crisp basalt]

Oh but Void did not Like him

[steady prawn]

the void is just the sith to soul's jedi

[obsidian quail]

what

[zinc dove]

Isn't it assumed that the Pale King used void to create stuff?

[foggy fractal]

where'd you get this from ? jiji's dialogue about regrets ?

[steady prawn]

and stuff in the abyss

[deft dragon]

I'm kind of new to the lore side of HK, but is the fact that the vessels are part higher being what allows them to give void form?

[obsidian quail]

he did experiment with it

[gleaming creek]

Where do pilgrims come from? Because if I recall correctly HK1 implied that going outside of Hallownest caused bugs to lose their sanity.

[pseudo lily]

Tbf both HK and SS hammer in the idea that this was a very bad idea.

[foggy fractal]

this guy is in a whole world of his own dudes playing a different game

[steady prawn]

void is just evil soul

[coarse sapphire]

Wait so why did they kidnap Hornet?

[deft dragon]

obviously not, shakra is from outside pharloom

[trim lark]

if it was possible to put the other verdania rulers soul into the cogwork dancers do we think second sentinel contains the being of a pin arts master

[deft dragon]

because she's one of the last remnants of the weavers

[obsidian quail]

u are just in ur own world of headcanon hahaha

[teal shell]

wanted to steal her special sauce silk

[gleaming creek]

Weaver heritage

[obsidian quail]

for that sweet silk

[zinc dove]

Just noticed in act 3 that the needolin doesn't work with void infected mobs

[coarse sapphire]

But isn't Harrah from deepnest?

[obsidian quail]

yes

[pseudo lily]

That was because many bugs in Hallownest were naturally animalistic (like the bugs on the surface in silksong), but granted sentience by the Pale King's power. It was those bugs specifically that could not venture outside of Hallownest without losing their minds. Many bugs can exist outside with no issue.

[steady prawn]

where is it said that void isnt evil soul

[gleaming creek]

Herrah is a really fat and really ugly Weaver afaik?

[teal shell]

oh no herrah weaver talk

[trim lark]

where is it said that void IS evil soul

[quick cairn]

I loved that Vespa got a cameo in Silksong

[deft dragon]

like the bug quirrel met

[obsidian quail]

here we go again

[coarse sapphire]

How does Hornet have Weaver heritage

[foggy fractal]

retconned it seems
Herrah didn't have evidence for her to be a weaver before
now she is clearly stated to be one
so we say yes Herrah is a weaver because Silksong says so

[deft dragon]

random bee lore was awesome

[teal shell]

because herrah is a weaver

[obsidian quail]

her mom was retconned into a weaver

[steady prawn]

well they are both descrived in the same ways as remnants of something and that they consist of wills of others

[quick cairn]

ye random hive lore was great

[foggy fractal]

that by proxy makes Hornet one

[teal shell]

shoutout random hive lore

[gleaming creek]

So basically the generic beetle like guys are endangered, but sth like a mantis or a moth could freely leave?

[teal shell]

they should do that more often

[fiery coyote]

Being around another Higher Heing would help keep them sane if that was needed.

Well. Until the haunting

[deft dragon]

herrah went from a chunky spider to a weaver. crazy glowup

[pseudo lily]

Exactly.

[trim lark]

this guy for reference

[gleaming creek]

Yup, generic beetle-like bug

[obsidian quail]

exactly what i said

[steady prawn]

he has the ballon thing like greymoor

[deft dragon]

honestly

[trim lark]

i think its just the default 'big packed bag' since the couriers have them too

[craggy smelt]

i love those

[deft dragon]

i was hoping we saw hornet vs the hollow knight in a flashback

[steady prawn]

one of the courries is in greymoor so maybe that wher the got da baf

[trim lark]

hornet fought thk?

[quick cairn]

also how did Hornet talk with Pale Queen? was she just talking with her memory back then or was that a real deal

[teal shell]

thwt would canonise one specific ending when theyre tryna keep it 50/50

[craggy smelt]

I do love the Greymoor balloons and the Seamstress/Pintress houses though
I love the concept of airships now in hollowworld

[timber pond]

I didn't even know this guy existed https://youtu.be/0Eczi1rfOy4?si=SlsbfZtmzY-9UtNf

[coarse sapphire]

That doesnt make sense so deepnest was ruled by an immigrant? Or did she just marry the king and became the ruler after he died

[deft dragon]

i mean the first two HK endings are already off the table

[craggy smelt]

there's magic and gods involved, so it was a memory that was also real in a way

[rain meadow]

I thought silksong was set in the past? Is it definitely sat after hk?

[craggy smelt]

yeah, I didn't find him until... later

[teal shell]

yes but they dont want to specify if its embrace the void or dream no more, having a hk fight would define which one

[deft dragon]

true

[obsidian quail]

not sure, could be the case

[oak pike]

Sup
Sorry to interpret but can I ask about some area and what is it

[trim lark]

likely became the ruler because he died

[gleaming creek]

Weavers are immigrants, but no one else lived in that area, so they made it home.

[teal shell]

sure

[foggy fractal]

silksong is a sequel
lots of stuff confirms this but true ending especially

[deft dragon]

except for some spiders

[oak pike]

Where and what is this

[gleaming creek]

I meant sentient creatures.

[rain meadow]

I sees I sees

[craggy smelt]

we don't know, it's nameless

[quick cairn]

This is basically wilderness

[craggy smelt]

(says it right there)

[oak pike]

Fair

[teal shell]

its the surface above the cave systems that make up pharloom, the town is just unimportant and nameless

[quick cairn]

No man's land so to speak

[timber pond]

Play your nedolin at the broken house at the very far right

[teal shell]

its more to show that life does still go on outside of the cities

[timber pond]

I assume its a snail shamans village

[coarse sapphire]

Damn Herrah is one super fat weaver also the "ball heads" are just masks right? Is widow the only royal weaver or was she also cursed

[craggy smelt]

outside of kingdoms, there's just these expansive wastelands, you can see similar wastes on the edge of the Blasted Steps

[foggy fractal]

some town on the surface/wastes there is a decently tough platforming challenging you have to do in act 3 from the cradle up to access it

[oak pike]

Kinda looks like the hollowest tho

[steady prawn]

its more like 50/60 since the ending with hornet v hollow knight makes more sense to explain how sahe was captured by the pharloom bugs

[foggy fractal]

doesn't offer much besides being a mister mushroom quest location

[oak pike]

Already did

[teal shell]

cant define it and this convo doesnt go to well in this channel

[oak pike]

Is this like the path of pain of silksong?

[teal shell]

but i know its embrace the void i just cant prove it

[craggy smelt]

i don't think its that bad... more like the White Palace

[bronze hemlock]

Ye but it's 10x easier than normal Path of Pain.

[quick cairn]

Shane, Shane how do we prove Hornet vs HK ?

[teal shell]

path of a mild disturbance

[bronze hemlock]

And shorter.

[foggy fractal]

no its more like one section of white palace its not too bad

[steady prawn]

hgornet hjas to be captured somehow id say it makes sense shes exhasted after fighting pure vessel and gets captured

[teal shell]

we cant theres no evidence

[timber pond]

The proof is The Hollow Kngihts massive ass shade being absent lmao

[oak pike]

Hornet movement do make it easier

[quick cairn]

Im in your boat tho, we just can't prove it

[coarse sapphire]

So you are saying the knight did the pantheons just for fun?

[teal shell]

it could be years and years and years after hk, hornet being weakened doesnt have a defined reason

[bronze hemlock]

Hollow Knight protecting Hallowmest by itself back home.

[teal shell]

nothing says the knight even did the pantheons

[whole juniper]

why else would it

[oak pike]

But like I mean
Is this the hard platforming section that is hidden like path of pain lmao

[whole juniper]

it’s so it could become the god of gods

[steady prawn]

also the big void ghuy shows up and hes not in dnm

[teal shell]

you can say that i guess but its not too much proof

[coarse sapphire]

How is embrace the void canon without the pantheons

[quick cairn]

Team Cherry did say that all HK endings were equally canon, with the wake of Silksong and it's endings we know that it's either Dream No More or Embrace The Void

[teal shell]

they also show the siblings which dont exist for embrace the void

[deft dragon]

the image of the shade lord in the sister of the void ending kinda implies it to some degree

[foggy fractal]

this doesn't prove that its etv I think, just makes it so that it isn't confirmation of dnm

[whole juniper]

They said that forever ago it might not apply…

[teal shell]

i agree but they also show the siblings

[steady prawn]

siblings are just a part of the void aint they

[quick cairn]

Well it's 50/50 now

[teal shell]

not part of the shade lord

[whole juniper]

that’s pretty generous

[deft dragon]

nothing says the siblings CANT exist with the shade lords existence

[quick cairn]

Or actually, both are canon

[teal shell]

its 50/50 and i just cant prove that its etv

[foggy fractal]

yeah its either dnm or etv now

[timber pond]

You could just assume that shade lord is unison between all shades and they just split back into indavidual shades.

[steady prawn]

yeah they show up in the void area in hk

[quick cairn]

What if both

[teal shell]

also the knight can just do things for fun, why else would they do the coliseum of fools

[coarse sapphire]

Who said shade lord is the knight because it was always there

[deft dragon]

we should just say its etv and run with it 🤗

[edgy barn]

Just finished Act 3

[whole juniper]

it can’t be the pantheon ending and it can’t be sealed siblings

[teal shell]

we should not

[teal shell]

no it can be the pantheon ending

[whole juniper]

What’s etv again

[quick cairn]

Embrace the Void is Pantheon ending actually

[steady prawn]

in my mind he did pantheons to try and escape which is what he finally did in etv en ding

[deft dragon]

godhome ending

[steady prawn]

i think he was trapped in godh0om e

[quick cairn]

And it was the first ending that showed us Shade Lord

[teal shell]

we should consider godhome and dream no more as both canon for now as it makes it easier to deal with

[whole juniper]

we would have found out something about what happened with the huge beast being released and the hollow knight about to kill hornet?

[timber pond]

I just want to have a followup on what actually happens to The Hollow Knight

[teal shell]

i think your all just jumping the gun

[steady prawn]

yeah we just need to wait for godhmoe 2 to confirm it anyway

[fiery coyote]

Not particularly. Only Sister of the Void requires the ETV ending, while any other ending just needs something that isnt Sealed Siblings

[quick cairn]

Play Silksong again lmao

[teal shell]

that doesnt answer it

[timber pond]

I would have been ok with him showing up as a shade in the void. But since he isn't im just like where the fuck is he????

[deft dragon]

for silksong it makes little difference, but both have different implications on the state of hallownest during SS. mainly the hollow knights freedom

[whole juniper]

Silksong doesn’t answer it therefore it probably isn’t from that timeline?

[teal shell]

hornet is extremely old, silksong could take place decades after silksong

[foggy fractal]

there was a dicussion about this like a few days ago
I find it sweet how if its etv that the knight decides to appear as their void given form form, a form that resembles them as vessel which is also smth that Hornet would be familar with

[deft dragon]

hornet has had a few mates. shes hella old

[teal shell]

i just think this convo gets really annoying and/or toxic so its probably better to consider both canon for now

[whole juniper]

maybe they just died quickly

[deft dragon]

fair enough

[whole juniper]

Probably not

[whole juniper]

The other one makes more sense than etv

[fiery coyote]

What exactly happens in that cinematic? Does the void attack Hornet, and Ghost protects her?

[teal shell]

unless future dlc confirms something embrace the void and dream no more are equally canon

[steady prawn]

maybe she ate them

[teal shell]

it does not and we are not going into it

[steady prawn]

spiders do that

[deft dragon]

lmao

[whole juniper]

why

[quick cairn]

Yes, also Shade Lord appears

[coarse sapphire]

Was widow the only royal weaver or was she also controlled?

[teal shell]

they werent mature enough for her

[steady prawn]

spiders eat their mates

[deft dragon]

hornet has high ass standards

[teal shell]

because it turns the channel into hysterics

[teal shell]

hornet is also half wyrm

[steady prawn]

ok she only half ate em

[whole juniper]

So they eat half their mate

[teal shell]

real life bug logic doesnt apply here

same bit done twice booooring

[steady prawn]

theres other bugs in phaloom that do that so it is possible

[edgy barn]

There was a cutscene with the weavers trying to get Hornet to be more weaver-like so it cancels out

[foggy fractal]

yeah why are we trying to apply real bug logic to a game with magical god bugs with mind opening abilities

[teal shell]

no where does it imply hornet ate her mates

[coarse sapphire]

Hornet is either million years old or she tried to maintain relationships with lumaflies

[foggy fractal]

truth nuke !

[steady prawn]

because huntress or whatever her name is

[deft dragon]

divine did it

[teal shell]

im pretty sure she says they died because she outlived them

[whole juniper]

They aren’t really gods gods just refers to strong bugs I think

[quick cairn]

Hornet herself states that she had mates, and that she's old, and that she outlived them

[deft dragon]

divine ate leg eater (bless his soul)

[teal shell]

yes exactly

[steady prawn]

and a big lamp

[trim lark]

the only time hornet talks about her mates would actually contradict 'hornet eats mates'
her mates died of old age of all things

[fiery coyote]

Those are just normal bugs? Idk here the magical comes from

[quick cairn]

Other more knowledgeable bugs also know she's OLD

[whole juniper]

I suppose that’s cause the pale kings was her dad

[ionic helm]

just to be clear, the implication is that gms created the weavers, right?

[teal shell]

yes probably being half god would make you live for ages

[steady prawn]

does that mean hornet is a GILF?

[deft dragon]

and the vessels are even older than hornet

[whole juniper]

gms?

[foggy fractal]

I was refering to wyrms/pk with that statement

[teal shell]

uh no

[ionic helm]

grand mother silk

[whole juniper]

oh grandma

[trim lark]

yeah being half a pale being is already pretty huge

[foggy fractal]

no she doesn't have any children
she is old tho but thats it

[teal shell]

i was shot in the bronx

[foggy fractal]

L

[coarse sapphire]

Isn't Hornet canonically hot?

[trim lark]

do we have any reason as to why gms is GRAND mother silk
like not just grandmother they specifically put in the space

[steady prawn]

cougar then

[trim lark]

youre thinking of flukemarm

[whole juniper]

gms is a pale being and she theoretically made the weavers soooo maybe she’s more than half… either way the queen weaver gave birth to her which also had to help

[deft dragon]

gms is refered to as pale a few times. does that make her a pale being too?

[teal shell]

shes called pale because silk is pale most likely

[deft dragon]

since pale beings are distinguished from higher beings

[trim lark]

i believe gms is a pale being

[quick cairn]

Wasn't it stated that Pale = God ?

[whole juniper]

where is pale ever used like that it always means they’re a pale being

[deft dragon]

i mean

[trim lark]

higher being = god

[gleaming creek]

Probably a double mother.
Her grey hair makes her look like a grandma...
But she is Lace's mother, and is quite large too

[deft dragon]

the big ass slug in greenpath is a higher being

[teal shell]

its more that all pale beings have happened to be higher beings so far

[whole juniper]

Pale equals super god

[deft dragon]

not necessary a higher being

[coarse sapphire]

We dont really know the difference between higher being and pale being (who are also higher)

[foggy fractal]

because she isn't a grandmother
weavers are more like her creations then her daughters, she seems to have given powers to existing bugs (pharlids) so not really her daughters
then there are her actual daughters, phantom and lace who both don't have children

[teal shell]

we hardly know what a higher beings is

[quick cairn]

Unn is a God, but isn't Pale

Hmm

[deft dragon]

well, pale king had to resort to using void to trap the radiance

[trim lark]

all we know is that higher beings can do some pretty crazy shit like dream a whole land + population into existence (unn)

[coarse sapphire]

Unn literally created people didnt she?

[teal shell]

thats because the radiance cannot be killed by normal means

[deft dragon]

when, if he were more powerful, couldnt he have just killed radiance?

[teal shell]

the radiance is functionally immortal

[edgy barn]

Yes, the Mosskin from Green Path

[deft dragon]

the power of the pale king is hardly normal

[whole juniper]

he’s not a dream god like radiance

[teal shell]

pale kings power is purely in a physical sense, radiance lives in dreams

[coarse sapphire]

So yeah that's a God like feat

[teal shell]

compared to dreams it is

[ionic helm]

yeah you cant kill "primal sources" like the radiance and gms, only contain them

[trim lark]

voids just fuckin weird

[coarse sapphire]

Unn did more impressive things than the Pale King lol

[quick cairn]

We literally killed GMS no?

[deft dragon]

pale king at least has some dream influence

[whole juniper]

Not purely… he can do dream realm shit just not on the radiances scale

[teal shell]

the radiance only dies because of a very specific set of circumstances that was a 0 to none chance of happening

[deft dragon]

how else does his palace end up in the dreamscape

[teal shell]

manipulating dreams is difference to control over dreams

[trim lark]

i mean most higher beings have the dream essence particles but radiance is THE dream mf

[deft dragon]

true, i guess the radiance is literally a god over dreams

[quick cairn]

How mad was she when a child of her nemesis decided to pay her a visit

[ionic helm]

being trapped in void and being killed arent the same thing

[teal shell]

radiance isnt a god over dreams shes just a god whos domain is dreams

[ionic helm]

the same thing happens to the radiance

[teal shell]

id the radiance had a physical form shed be curb stomped by pk

[deft dragon]

what a meant

[teal shell]

nah shadelord kills radiance

[foggy fractal]

I don't think they would survive in the void

[quick cairn]

In DNM, but wasn't Radiance destroyed in EtV ?

[coarse sapphire]

Radiance didnt even exists as a physical being just like other God like being correct? It was always in the dream realm

[whole juniper]

gms kinda did

[deft dragon]

only in etv

[teal shell]

embrace the void is straight up killing the radiance

[coarse sapphire]

I think its safe to assume Radiance is the greatest being in the universe that we know of

[foggy fractal]

I doubt she would've been able to survive forever

[teal shell]

gms was on the ropes after being in there for not a very long time

[deft dragon]

nah, the knight is

[whole juniper]

Depends what you consider greatest

[deft dragon]

knight curb stopped the radiance

[trim lark]

being able to unite the void is able to make you do crazy shit like kill radiance but so far the only person whos done that is
well ghost

[deft dragon]

mostly joking

[teal shell]

gms was holding on by, excuse the pun, a thread, and she wouldnt have been in the void for all too long

[deft dragon]

i know the void was responsible for ending the radiance in most endings

[whole juniper]

Neither the knight nor the radiance could build such a powerful kingdom as the king so in that sense

[trim lark]

pale king had the special little make you smart aura

[teal shell]

the radiance had a moth tribe, she could, she just didnt

[obsidian quail]

silk is pale because she is pale

[teal shell]

and the knight doesnt need subjects

[obsidian quail]

flip it

[zinc dove]

Why was GSM in a sleep state? According to the journal she wanted to awaken

[whole juniper]

the moths barely fought-they couldn’t have built a kingdom from moths

[deft dragon]

literally a chicken or the egg situation

[teal shell]

they probably could have

[obsidian quail]

the Weavers made a lullaby

[foggy fractal]

yeah I doubt the knight would care even
like they were probably chilling in the abyss before having to go save Hornet

[coarse sapphire]

Team Cherry robbed us of the Great Fluke Empire

[deft dragon]

and then promptly dipped

[obsidian quail]

she is the source so she comes first, pale being produces pale silk

[zinc dove]

To prevent her from awakening?

[whole juniper]

With the deep nest bugs hating everyone and the mantises literally only respecting you if you can fight good… that’s a good chunk of territory cut off

[teal shell]

the radiance isnt even all that strong comparatively it just cant die unless a stupidly specific set of circumstances occur

[whole juniper]

I don’t know if the bees are hostile

[teal shell]

there is a massive gap between where the moth tribe were set up and deepnest lol

[obsidian quail]

radiance is tricky to deal with, if not for that PK would have dunked on her

[trim lark]

the bees just dont wanna talk to you but i doubt they would welcome an intrusion

[teal shell]

the point is the radiance could have had a kingdom, they just didnt have one

[deft dragon]

wasnt it that the pale king's influence almost killed the radiance because hallownest forgot about her

[obsidian quail]

it put her to sleep and kept her asleep

[foggy fractal]

😭 her ass got powercrept by everyone in silksong
wow x2 mask dmg so strong yeah everyone can do that in pharloom. 🥶 CHILLS.

[coarse sapphire]

Radiance was in the dream realm tho

[trim lark]

unfortunately the seer remembers, and some guy made a radiance statue at the peak which keeps her memory

[whole juniper]

i agree but just can’t think the moth tribe would survive very long

[deft dragon]

maybe its just that the vessel's are hella durable

[obsidian quail]

she needs to be remembered and the moths were forgetting her because they worshipped PK

[teal shell]

it still has influence over the real world

[coarse sapphire]

The real question is if it can exist in the physical real with the moths

[whole juniper]

Maybe she gives them power like she did with traitor lord

[deft dragon]

big downside to being a dream higher being

[coarse sapphire]

Otherwise that's a weird way of ruling over a kingdom

[zinc dove]

alright thx, I'm really lost with the lore lmao

[teal shell]

the radiance is worshipped by the moths, it has a statue, the radiance could have had a “kingdom” but it wouldnt have direct rule over it

[zinc dove]

And I'm in act 3

[trim lark]

arent we just doing hk lore now lmao

[teal shell]

radiance would be pulling the strings in that scenario

[foggy fractal]

I think traitor lord just accepted the infection so they could become stronger rather than Radiance giving anyone special attention

[whole juniper]

or it could just possess someone and make them the king

[coarse sapphire]

Wait wait wait

[deft dragon]

maybe the moths did have a wider territory, since they obviously extended up to hallownest's crown

[teal shell]

radiance didnt possess, it became a hivemind of infected

[whole juniper]

that still shows that it’s capable of making you stronger

[trim lark]

the infection becomes worse the more you resist it (and also i guess vicinity with crossroads as the example)

the ones who willingly accepted it use it to strengthen themselves

[teal shell]

i think this has been totally derailed from is gms a pale being

[trim lark]

like the fools and mantises

[whole juniper]

Why wouldn’t they be

[teal shell]

thats not what im saying

[deft dragon]

i think all of HK lore discussion is derailment

[coarse sapphire]

GMS evolved random spiders into weavers right? And she is the progenitor of silk... Does that mean other spiders cant produce silk lol?

[teal shell]

😭

[trim lark]

maybe its specifically the soul silk

[ionic helm]

i dont think gms is a pale being

[obsidian quail]

the special magic Silk

[ionic helm]

i dont think being a higher being inherently means you are pale

[obsidian quail]

she is explicitly a pale being

[obsidian quail]

it doesn’t but she is one

[whole juniper]

it states that they’re pale

[foggy fractal]

grr they're not just random spiders they are called Pharlids ! read the hunter's journal BUD.

[trim lark]

cant remember who says it but they say that hornet would be sought after for the ability to weave soul into silk
or something

[teal shell]

the inciting conversation was is gms a pale being then is void strong and now we are arguing over radiance and kingdoms😭

[deft dragon]

higher beings arent needed for something to exist

[coarse sapphire]

Im talking about spiders in general

[ionic helm]

theres a lot of things that are stated to be pale and arent pale beings though right

[teal shell]

spiders still exist they just dont have magic silk

[deft dragon]

lil typo

[whole juniper]

ehh not really

[obsidian quail]

yeah but what is stated to be Pale is Pale

[teal shell]

deepnest is giant spiderwebs and silk balls

and thats not magic silk

[coarse sapphire]

I think the journal calls her progenitor of silk not "soul silk"

[deft dragon]

how many higher beings do we know about?

[foggy fractal]

yeah and I was talking about who GMS evolved
but also it seems that every spider can produce silk, just not imbue it with their soul like the weavers can

[whole juniper]

main source

[obsidian quail]

they’re probably referring to the Soul Silk

the Weaver silk

[trim lark]

there is 1 example
the palestag
BUT

1. we dont know jackshit about it lmao
2. the journal entry specifically states that its possible that details are muddled because its in memory only

otherwise yeah i doubt the palestag is a pale being considering how easy it is to just murder

[deft dragon]

radiance, uun, pale king, white lady, gms, shade lord...

[limpid summit]

nightmare heart

[deft dragon]

true

[limpid summit]

what are we talking about

[ionic helm]

then why is it even in the game

[obsidian quail]

Unn
Nightmare Heart
GMS
PK
WL
Radiance
Shade Lord

[solid elk]

I am more surprised that we only see spiders making silk, tbh, as silkworms and other insects that use silk seem pretty ripe for Pharloom to have them

[teal shell]

is radiance a pale being or is it just bright because thats just unclear

[whole juniper]

unn nightmare heart white lady

[deft dragon]

youre entering abt 10 different conversations rn

[teal shell]

hype moments and aura

[naive crag]

the palestag is touched by a pale being

[ionic helm]

i feel like itd be weird if it just straight up wasnt a pale being just because "the green prince made it up lol"

[limpid summit]

We don’t know what entails pale being but probably not

[trim lark]

its what the clover dancers killed, and this hunt is what crowned them as royalty (i think)

[limpid summit]

As far as we know it’s just those three

[solid elk]

Would Hornet count after absorbing GMS?

[crisp basalt]

You know what's the Main Animal that makes Silk? Moth

[obsidian quail]

it’s not pale

[limpid summit]

Probably yes

[solid elk]

Silkworms are moths, yes

[obsidian quail]

probably

[deft dragon]

idk why im here i havent 100% the game yet

[teal shell]

what defines pale its kinda confusing or am i just dumb

[naive crag]

we dont know

[trim lark]

we kind of have no clue

[ionic helm]

pale is just whatever

[obsidian quail]

their color scheme is white at least

[deft dragon]

related to pale beings...

[teal shell]

like radiance is white and glows so is she not pale by most definitions that goes for like pk

[solid elk]

If the game calls a higher being Pale, it is probably a Pale Being

[obsidian quail]

radiance has yellow light

[deft dragon]

pale flowers, pale beings, pale ore

[ionic helm]

the palestag was the horse the pale king rode into town on

[obsidian quail]

not pale light

[teal shell]

is it really just that

[obsidian quail]

difference between PK and WL

[limpid summit]

The palestag was named friday

[teal shell]

i really feel like they gotta just release a spreadsheet of what is what and who is who just for clarity sake man

[whole juniper]

i assume that’s just named after him

[obsidian quail]

Pale light is implied to be special but everything we have seen of from Pale beings are white

everyone who is pale is said to be pale there’s no debate

[deft dragon]

wheres the fun in that

[teal shell]

this isnt fun

[solid elk]

Actually, you have to kill silk moths to harvest the silk, so that probably isnt as effective as using spiders (in HK, not literally IRL)

[obsidian quail]

radiance isn’t pale

[teal shell]

this is torture

[deft dragon]

uun is green 🙂

[teal shell]

gween being

[obsidian quail]

ur just overthinking because we know who is pale and who isn’t

radiance isn’t pale and doesn’t even produce pale light

[solid elk]

Uun being a mollusk Higher Being warms my heart

[limpid summit]

Confirmed HBs: Radiance, PK, WL, TK, GMS
Confirmed PBs: PK, WL, GMS
All but confirmed: Unn, NMH
Maybe: Greyroot, Mister Mushroom
We don’t know enough: Lifeblood Creature

[teal shell]

its hard to not overthink this channel makes me overthink breathing

[ionic helm]

is not being referred to as pale evidence that its not pale tho?

[limpid summit]

Nightmare heart is red 🔴

[teal shell]

mister mushroom is just auramaxxing

[obsidian quail]

yes

[coarse sapphire]

As if killing people would stop them

[deft dragon]

then what gives the pale flower its property of stopping the void? when the pale king was obviously messed up by it

[whole juniper]

does the knight count as a pale being

[limpid summit]

No

[trim lark]

unrelated but do we have any reason as to why hornet just decides to stab random corpses

[teal shell]

void being

[foggy fractal]

also do we have any footage of someone getting ending 3 from this video that datamined the endings ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4QB1wB88t4&t=94s&ab_channel=MELOO I assumed it was from if you binded her when given the option to start act 3 but saw a comment saying that just gives the regular ending

[obsidian quail]

it’s something from the First Light, whatever that means

[ionic helm]

the knight and hornet are called pale but arent called pale beings

[limpid summit]

Probably a cut version of ending 1they kept in the files

[whole juniper]

but they were born of pale parents

[foggy fractal]

maybe

[ionic helm]

is the white lady pale??

[solid elk]

If the Knight were not born in the Abyss, it would be a Pale Being

[limpid summit]

Yes

[deft dragon]

though the pale flower is slowly destroyed by the void, so pale beings are a permanent solution to the void

[obsidian quail]

yes

[ionic helm]

but shes white.

[teal shell]

i think the vessels are pale in description but not pale beings in of themselves as they are beings of void

[whole juniper]

being alive doesn’t mean you’re not a pale being

[deft dragon]

xactly

[obsidian quail]

it was just one flower against the sea

[limpid summit]

Before Silksong the only thing Pale Beings were was a way to group PK and WL together

Now GMS is one

[obsidian quail]

yes everyone pale has a white aesthetic

[deft dragon]

it was also 1 flower against the shade lord escaping godhome

[obsidian quail]

that was a lot less void

[ionic helm]

everyone pale has a white aesthetic... its called being pale

[coarse sapphire]

Delicate flowers are from the other world correct?

[deft dragon]

its void given focus though

[solid elk]

The Void is doing all the heavy lifting for the Vessels

[teal shell]

ocean of void + evil void creatures vs void tendrils

[obsidian quail]

but it’s still less void

[obsidian quail]

ur overthinking it

[trim lark]

its probably a good idea to bring up that the everbloom that hornet brings it one she weaves herself by viewing it in her memory

[whole juniper]

yeah cause they’re dead… being dead doesn’t make you not pale being… if that was true then they could have thrown any common bug eggs down into the abyss and used them as vessels

[teal shell]

also it was an object was pulled from a memory, it could just be more fragile

[deft dragon]

i see the point, but a shade lord is more than just void tendrils

[solid elk]

Actually, do we know why Garmond specifically was corrupted by the Void and not any other notable NPC?

[teal shell]

most of it was still contained within the godseeker

[trim lark]

the game hates us and wants to see us cry

[coarse sapphire]

I think being dead might actually make you more of a pale being

[obsidian quail]

got caught slipping

[teal shell]

sad moments and negative aura

[whole juniper]

You lost me here

[trim lark]

but garmond was working overtime thats why he got caught up

[deft dragon]

strayed by the void

[obsidian quail]

we lost the plot

[deft dragon]

sad day

[naive crag]

we have the pale being conversation every 2 hours i love this channel

[deft dragon]

same topic, different people

[teal shell]

the vessels seem to physically share their appearance with pk, i do not believe they are pale beings, its just the resemblance being called out as they are truly beings of void

[foggy fractal]

💔 true...

[naive crag]

i can recognize most here

[teal shell]

i could just be reaching tho

[gaunt anchor]

i wanna refight the silksong bosses with out having to replay the game each time 💔

[trim lark]

do we think the godseekers will appear in ss as dlc or nuh uh

[foggy fractal]

hopefully a mod comes out soon

[teal shell]

probly not

[deft dragon]

because they arent higher beings

[teal shell]

i dont think theres any gods for them to attune to

[deft dragon]

we honestly dont know how demigods work in this world

[ionic helm]

considering they want every ending to be considered canon probably not right

[gaunt anchor]

how many years till we get pantheons

[whole juniper]

why would the pale king have lots of sex with only the white lady to have kids if not to create strong pale kids to contain the infection?

[naive crag]

right theres barely higher beings in pharloom

theres gms and then not much

[whole juniper]

And contain void

[solid elk]

You lose the status once you go void. Once tou go void, you never go back

[teal shell]

they went to hallownest specifically for pale king and he was dead

[deft dragon]

does that make gms a really powerful hb?

[teal shell]

pale king seems leagues above gms in sense of like “power”

[whole juniper]

?

[naive crag]

she isnt exceptionally powerful

[coarse sapphire]

Is Pharloom's entire power system based on one weird horse running on a treadmill 24/7

[naive crag]

i dont think it makes sense to powerscale them since theyre all wildly different

[deft dragon]

the pharloom bugs? they went to hallownest to get hornet specifically

[teal shell]

they are pure void beings dude

[naive crag]

but if we had to radiance is stronger i think

[whole juniper]

Controlling a entire kingdom is pretty strong

[obsidian quail]

no it’s that sweet silk

[teal shell]

no the godseeker

[deft dragon]

true she was a light final boss cant lie

[ionic helm]

yeah but the radiance beat the pale king and gms survived the void which the radiance didnt which means gms > the pale king. powerscaling

[deft dragon]

oh

[whole juniper]

their body isn’t just void their shell is clearly not void

[teal shell]

the godseeker were seeking pale king and hes just gone

[obsidian quail]

radiance didn’t beat the pale king

[naive crag]

if hornet can beat her with just her nail

[limpid summit]

Scaling wise GMS is a weaker Pale King

[foggy fractal]

idk maybe Silksong won't have godmaster dlc
maybe something similar in effect but different characters ? I would say within a year or two we'll get dlc ? who knows
a mod will probably come out within a month or two tho