sk-lore

[ionic helm]

ate a bomb

[naive crag]

the others were defeated prob

[edgy nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/jgmm-cat-meme-ragebait-cat-think-cat-ponder-gif-7034802297606826390

[spark valve]

y'know the thing they swing around to make explosions

[edgy nebula]

ahh yeah

makes sense
i suppose judges probably also died due to the sand yeah? considering we see one mummified

[spark valve]

dessication might be a risk too or somethin

it's a dangerous job for any number of reasons

[naive crag]

they died because they dont wanna be around conchflies

[spark valve]

TRUE

aimbotters

[edgy nebula]

so many poor judges probably died via driznit coral from the horizon

[gloomy path]

atleast it wasnt putrified ducts bugs

[edgy nebula]

do we think judges can see out of their masks?

[spark valve]

probably

the way squirrms' eyes look I'd imagine those aren't covered

[lean temple]

Ofc. Unless they're like super martial artists or something

[spark valve]

hm

even larval the face seems to be metallic on its own

[edgy nebula]

craziest glowup

[spark valve]

real

[naive crag]

it was prettier before

[lean temple]

Probably a shell

[spark valve]

yes

but that would mean it wouldn't need to be gilded like the rest of the body per that lore tablet

[edgy nebula]

i wonder why the baby judges live in coral houses

[ionic helm]

it really fits

[spark valve]

Bug born of Pharloom. You have been chosen. May our Citadel's holy gilding harden your soft shell. Stand eternal as our arbiter, that no bug bearing sin shall step within our sacred halls

[lean temple]

It's likely the full body plating is more ceremonial

[edgy nebula]

protection against sand maybe? sand in the eyes would be a bit tough

or to show status/a sign that theyre actually a judge

[spark valve]

tablet seems to suggest durability is also a point

[lean temple]

Also fair

So wait their armor is gold?

[spark valve]

"May our Citadel's holy gilding harden your soft shell"

[lean temple]

It looks like copper

[edgy nebula]

some type of bronze probably

[spark valve]

I suspect they're taking a tiny liberty with what gilding means

[white panther]

Do we know how the conductors learned how to lock GMS away?

[lean temple]

That's what I assumed but gilded is gold

[edgy nebula]

things like ministers and maestros seem to be actually golden

[spark valve]

they didn't they're just doing what the weavers were doing

[edgy nebula]

shrug

[spark valve]

I think the meaning translates well enough

[lean temple]

Yeah. The Judges seem more like bronze. Which also the Slab bugs wear as well. I wonder what the bronze armor was supposed to indicate?

[edgy nebula]

possibly some type of sign that theyre a guard?

choir bellbearers are also clad in bronze

[spark valve]

the bronzeish seems like a pretty common kind of metal to be used outside of the upper echelons, it may just be the default

[edgy nebula]

thats true

[spark valve]

?

[edgy nebula]

deep docks also has a lot of bronze

[spark valve]

if anything they're more on the gold angle

[edgy nebula]

not those ones im dumb, the big ones with the hammers

[lean temple]

Might be so. Idk what else could tie all those different bugs together

[obsidian quail]

why did TK attack the Void to save Hornet, they didn’t run that by anyone

[edgy nebula]

i forgot their names i thought they were the bellbearers

[obsidian quail]

when u make a sequel u need a checklist of what u established so u don’t contradict it

[lean temple]

They care about her

[spark valve]

the only higher status choir ones I can think of that wear bronze are the clappers and grand reeds, which idk might be a quantity thing or some shit

[obsidian quail]

The Knight shouldn’t have to attack the Void it is the Void

[edgy nebula]

yeah the choir clappers

[lean temple]

It is Hallownest's Void, maybe not literally all Void in existence since it's everywhere

Controlling the Void that's everywhere is an absurd level of power

[edgy nebula]

perhaps the bronze material is made to be more highly produced yeah, itd make sense cause its found in things like the cogworks, on things like the judges and bugs bred to be guards, etc

[spark valve]

it's certainly more prevalent

[obsidian quail]

what

[cedar walrus]

do we know which character Eric Barone did

[bronze hemlock]

I wonder why Seth lost his memories after his fight.

[edgy nebula]

also ballow is cool
i dont think hes got any crazy lore cause i havent gotten into act 3 yet but hes a nice character

[white panther]

GMS question. She was using her silk to control the denizens of Pharloom, my question is...why?

[lean temple]

The Knight had control over the Void in Hallownest, but it had to travel to pharloom so likely it wasn't fully in control of the Void there.

[spark valve]

to make them shut up so she could wake up and to make them go get silk for her

[bronze hemlock]

I’m surprised the Knight saved Lace too tbh.

[lean temple]

Also it's so funny that Hornet doesn't consider cultivating more Everblooms

[spark valve]

she says that the kingdom can't sustain them

[edgy nebula]

oh, another question, why did the last judge attack the pilgrims when they seemingly got cleared by the judges?

[lean temple]

Like they sprouted super fast after Knight plants them

[cedar walrus]

Same Shaggy ain’t nobody got time for that

[spark valve]

that's in the magic growth area of a god a few rooms over

[lean temple]

Because they are the final challenge, the last judge

[obsidian quail]

Void is just Void

[lean temple]

TC thought otherwise

[spark valve]

they can still judge people inadequate, plus gotta smash hornet

[obsidian quail]

well that’s the issue BLUE

[naive crag]

makes me think about wls relation to them

[lean temple]

Hey I'm trying to find a solution here

[obsidian quail]

it was perfect and then they muddied it up

[naive crag]

she is always the one higher being thats mentioned along

[spark valve]

there's not going to be a good solution to that

[edgy nebula]

why would TLJ's opinions differ from her peers?

[lean temple]

Oh also, Greyroot is also a Root like WL, right? They aren't Pale tho

[spark valve]

she doesnt really have one, she says that they didn't come from her

[spark valve]

why have multiple judges around with one placed as the final arbiter if you aren't counting on multiple judgements being made

once you join the citadel you're (supposed to be) turned immortal through silk, letting bugs join was in theory kind of a big deal since they'd be there forever

only want the very best of the very best

[edgy nebula]

well what if the person coming through just attacked all the judges

[obsidian quail]

probably part of the overarching Root classification but different sub species

[spark valve]

they would probably get killed

[edgy nebula]

with that logic why are there multiple judges ayway and not just one

[bronze hemlock]

Imagine going through all of your pilgrimage onky to be sent to Whiteward.

[lean temple]

Yeah they seem more parasitic

[bronze hemlock]

Fate worse than death.

[spark valve]

no no that's my point, you have to pass ALL their judgements

[white panther]

oh Hornet, you are here on the void 🙂
-- Lace is drowning
this isnt about her

[bronze hemlock]

Lace literally tried to kill her but I guess the Knight is smart enough to know she’s the whole reason Hornet went to the void.

[lean temple]

Yeah

[edgy nebula]

but why would you need to pass multiple judgements anyway!! why not breed one big judge to judge them all

[obsidian quail]

i don’t TK is thinking about it too much just saving its sister and her companion she was carrying

[spark valve]

to make sure only the very best get in

they had high standards for joining the exalted immortal ranks of the choir

[bronze hemlock]

I like how Sister of the Void is an extremely literal title.

[edgy nebula]

i suppose thats fair, but damn, pharloom's systems suck ass

[lean temple]

One person can always be wrong or miss things. Multiple perspectives allows a more thorough judgement

[bronze hemlock]

Ventricas are cool.

[edgy nebula]

this is also true
but this brings me to another question, how do judges judge people

[lean temple]

The Citadel was literally poisoning nearby areas

[edgy nebula]

do they ask questions or do they look at you and decide

[spark valve]

it seems like they just go off vibes

it's uh
not the best system

They remorselessly eliminate any pilgrim or passerby deemed impure to their sight.
this seems to imply it's superficial

[lean temple]

You dare question the Holy Citadel? Heretic!

[edgy nebula]

so the judges just profile pilgrims 💔

[lean temple]

Man ngl the Godseekers would LOVE Pharloom

It's literally all about faith

[bronze hemlock]

Hopefully Granny isn’t dead and is suffering forever in the Void now : )

[edgy nebula]

adult vs baby judges really are the greatest change in personality ever

[spark valve]

the downside is it not having as many gods which is what they care more about

[edgy nebula]

from "We must grow to be holy!" to killing you based off of a vibe check

[spark valve]

that is what they're told being holy is tbf

[bronze hemlock]

They classify Gruz Mother as a god.

Lol.

[scenic stirrup]

Just saved sherma and were thise fucking void enemies dawg

💀

[edgy nebula]

i wonder if baby judges specifically have someone who checks in with them to see their progress or if they just go by the words of the sign for their entire life

id imagine they just go by the sign since there isnt any entrance to their room

[spark valve]

there must've been somebody coming to actually gild them and prep them for their task

even if they just meet them outside or smth

[edgy nebula]

i suppose thats true

[glass parrot]

Why did putting momma silk to sleep backfire on the weavers such that they wanted to escape and pass the burden to the citadel caste?

[spark valve]

the ones that fled fled before that, and they didn't choose to pass any burden on the caste showed up and took over by force

[edgy nebula]

im just now realizing tlj has really funky head

the helmet is build around this damn megamind

[spark valve]

kept growing and growing

[edgy nebula]

how big can ones brain get from so simple a job

[spark valve]

gotta be smart to fatally vibe check all those pilgrims

[naive crag]

I miss the pilgrims

[lean temple]

Perhaps, but they also were seeking the "God of Gods" in Hallownest and in Pharloom GMS fits that bill

[naive crag]

Pilby... The snails... The fixer bug... None of them had a chance

[spark valve]

gms is not stronger than other hbs

hallownest has like half a dozen gods as strong, and one stronger

[lean temple]

Not saying she is, but she's the only one in Pharloom who would be a god of gods, mostly bcz she's the only higher being

Which is weird since Hallownest had so many in comparison

Was Nyeleth a HB?

[whole hawk]

I just realized we still dont know where Zemer and the delicate flowers are from lmao

[spark valve]

unlikely

[whole hawk]

I thought Pharloom was the answer but it turns out Hornet just plucked that from her memory

Guess thats another unknown kingdom added to the list

[edgy nebula]

so sad how they become so stoic when they grow up

[lean temple]

Maybe not a kingdom. We just know it's a serene land

[edgy nebula]

jobs really do kill your creativity

[naive crag]

good thing to learn from this

[white panther]

Do the snails die after red memory due to the delicate flower presence? I assumed so but idk

[spark valve]

no

they used up all their soul in the spell

[lean temple]

Also

How did the Shamans just summon all that Void like that. Like damn

[spark valve]

they made a portal

[lean temple]

I know some was already under Pharloom

[spark valve]

they basically just teleported gms down

[void smelt]

Someone can explain to me the lore of this guy

[lean temple]

And teleported the Void up smh

[spark valve]

well

they opened a portal, dropped her through, then closed it

[whole hawk]

Technically it was Silk that spread the void up

[edgy nebula]

i dont know cause i havent gone to his area yet but he had a boyfriend and his boyfriend sacrificed himself to become the cogwork dancers for some reason i think and lowkey thats all i know

[lean temple]

Ruler of a ruined land. His lover died. Is a sad boy. The Citadel tried mimicking him and his lover with the cog dancers

[limpid summit]

What do we think hatches out of Hornet in twisted child that ending was visceral

[plucky ridge]

Is sister splinter the hardest boss in ss?

[lean temple]

A Pale Root /jk

[spark valve]

probably a god

[limpid summit]

Oh I didn’t know Koji did character design too huh

(I just did cursed ending)

[lean temple]

She did?

[naive crag]

He didn't sacrifice himself he just died and they made the cogworks after I think

[limpid summit]

That whole Greyroot quest is something

[limpid summit]

Yeah credits credit her w additional design

[lean temple]

I really got my hopes up the Greyroot would be reborn into a Pale Root

[edgy nebula]

i see, i thought he did

[spark valve]

he sacrificed himself

[naive crag]

where does it say it

[edgy nebula]

whyd he do it? esp for the citadel

[limpid summit]

There’s also a ton of squelching and shifting at the end

[naive crag]

i cant remember anything from him sacrificing himself

[limpid summit]

I just genuinely have no idea what she is

[spark valve]

he was trying to trade for verdania's protection

[edgy nebula]

ooohhhh, makes alot of sense

[real plank]

I remember smth about him putting his soul into the cogwork dancers?

[lean temple]

She's a Root like the White Lady, but not a Higher being. Maybe a different type of Root, more parasitic.

[edgy nebula]

the person that gives you the pollip pouch? i thought she was gorb or some shit

[lean temple]

She is most certainly a Root, different than WL tho

[naive crag]

she has lots of power for some reason

[spark valve]

[NPC]:The dancers... they were the last free act of my partner... Always hopeful. Always naive.[NPC]:His whole he gave, in desperate trade to see our own caves left safe. His shell and soul became the mould

[grim charm]

So what are weavers? A race similar to wyrms?

[spark valve]

no

they're spiders that have magic silk infused with soul

[white panther]

do we know of any other species that can drastically change like the Wyrm? (maybe it was just a PK thing, not even wyrm)

[lean temple]

Not really I don't think so. It seems a general Wyrm trait (from what Bardoon comments)

[whole hawk]

Not trying to start the argument again but did people ever agree on whether this followed up Embrace the Void or Dream no More? Or did people just shake hands and say that maybe both are canon?

Mostly because the implication of EtV ending makes me laugh

[white panther]

im impressed that metamorphosis isnt a huge central theme of HK since its based on the insect world

[whole hawk]

Pale King literally gave birth to Hornet, the Knight, and the Hollow Knight (assuming EtV) who are all alive and are potentially all kingdom conquering entities by themselvez.

[trim lark]

do we have a reason as to why hornet just kinda stab into random corpses sometimes

[obsidian quail]

it’s deliberately ambiguous on purpose, that’s all we can say

[edgy stone]

Hornet binds the silk entwined in that person into her

[obsidian quail]

Pale King did that at least

[lean temple]

Well either way the Knight is with the Void now along their siblings. THK is either dead or alive who knows where. And Hornet is heading to who knows where with Lace

[white panther]

ye but thats probably the one example we have

[whole hawk]

Should call him Pale Stud honestly.

[edgy stone]

At least thats what I think it is since we automatically get parry from phantom after killing her

[obsidian quail]

that’s true, would be a very interesting central plot for a game

[edgy stone]

And shes a full silk being so hornet unlocking the crests is probably just her stealing their silk

[lean temple]

Yeah she like absorbs their power and knowledge into her being

[trim lark]

is she able to sense that those random ass corpses hold a lotta silk or somethin

[whole hawk]

Other higher beings wish they had the godly hitrate this dude's seed has had.

[obsidian quail]

i think the numerous children was more about White Lady’s constitution

[lean temple]

PK is probably the single most influential being in the HK universe up to this point

That we know off

[obsidian quail]

not saying much though, it’s a big world

[white panther]

|| Sherma ||

[lean temple]

Big world, mostly barren. PK having a daughter with Herrah killed the Silk Goddess and having kids with WL killed a dream goddess

[edgy nebula]

squirrm

[whole hawk]

Well we'll still have to see how the steel faction DLC pans out.

City of Iron might powercreep the other kingdoms.

[lean temple]

I want that so bad. I WANNA SEE THE MASTERS

[obsidian quail]

that’s true, but given how big world is there are probably a lot of kingdoms out there

plus he was only one Wyrm out of a whole race of Wyrms

i’m sure they all got up to some shit

so much lore potential

[lean temple]

That's the beauty of it

[obsidian quail]

if we’re talking about the most widespread influential thing we know of though it’s not even PK

[lean temple]

Do you think all Wyrms were Pale? Or just few like the PK?

[whole hawk]

Still though, Pale King not only bodied the Black Wyrm during the golden age but even after he's gone, his remaining progeny are all crazy on the powerlevel scales.

[spare pendant]

yeah like lord fool

[whole hawk]

Assuming the Black awyrm was a higher being at all

[spare pendant]

blackwyrm isn't confirmed to een be a wyrm

[lean temple]

We don't know what "Blackwyrm" even is

[obsidian quail]

probably not all Pale, there is a good chance there was a Black Wyrm and it seems all Wyrms are like a race of higher beings

that being said i think Pale King is special for being a Pale Wyrm, so probably better than ur average one

but the most influential thing we know of in HK is easily the Void

that shit clearly gets around

[spare pendant]

i mean it seems to be everywhere under the world

[lean temple]

Yeah I do think Wyrms were all powerful HBs. The fact PK is constantly specifically called Pale/White Wyrm implies not all were pale.

[whole hawk]

And the fact one of his kids essentially got the void heart pretty much cements his legacy in the HKverse

The GOAT, as they say

[spare pendant]

he's fucking stupid lol

he literally caused the downfall of his own kingdom

[obsidian quail]

i mean SS kinda nerfed TK

the Void still does its own thing

[lean temple]

They were still able to stop it in its tracks. You can argue why not do that from the beginning but there's no answer to that

[obsidian quail]

it’s just with the Higher Beings u see how specific bugs worship and follow them for specific reasons

bugs of any faction/species can turn to the Void

it’s far more encompassing

[lean temple]

And the fact that it exists everywhere deep down

Something is up with it, majorly

And that Shadow Creepers just manifest into existence wherever Void exists

[whole hawk]

More reason to be existed by the Steel DLC consdiering their potential connections with the void

[fathom zenith]

Eva being a child of iron literally makes her an iron maiden

[whole hawk]

Old HK DLCs released in less than two years, who knows how Silksong's will pan out thoigh

[obsidian quail]

and clearly the Ancient Civilization was all over the place

i was surprised we didn’t see any AC architecture

i don’t think the Abyss stuff was them

or was it

[whole hawk]

Wasnt the stuff in the Abyss from the Weavers?

Although there were lore tablets there from the ancient civilizatio

[obsidian quail]

i think that was only the Weavenest

but i thought those formations down there developed naturally because that was said in HK

[white panther]

what is this BlackWyrm and where is this mentioned in game? first time im reading about this

[whole hawk]

White Defender lore

[obsidian quail]

Dung Defender talks about the Battle of Blackwyrm pretty sure

[timber pond]

what even is that parasite if it can eat gods

[white panther]

journal or dialogue?

[whole hawk]

Dream nail? I actually forgot.

Been so long.

[timber pond]

ithink it might be journal

[limpid summit]

I think that’s white defender journal entry

[white panther]

oh cool, thanks

[timber pond]

with the context of silksong,perhaps the Blackwyrm is another wyrm that was consumed by the void and spread it.

[lean temple]

We get an arcane egg but could it just be a Void product that the AC repurposed?

[lean temple]

Then maybe Everblooms were used against it, supplied by Ze'mer

[timber pond]

probabably

[spark valve]

blackwyrm was probably not a wyrm

[white panther]

Blackwyrm could even be a place i guess

[spark valve]

if there was another wyrm in hallownest at any point it would be abundantly clear

[white panther]

or...hmm...the title of another warrior

[torn drift]

I have a question about the Act 3 true ending
Is that really the knight? Seeing the Lord of Shades would suggest as much, but the shade's horns are pretty different, more like the Hollow Knight's before they grew up

[whole hawk]

It is.

[spark valve]

they look like that in dream no more

[lean temple]

That's also my thoughts. If Wyrms are so incredibly powerful then two in the same area would draw much attention

[torn drift]

Oh you're so right
weird

[lean temple]

The Godseekers never comment on having sensed another Wyrm

[spark valve]

in any case silksong also gives us a voltvyrm, so clearly there's some wiggle room with that naming scheme

[lean temple]

If anything yeah it means "wyrm" can be a part of something that is obviously not an actual Wyrm

[whole hawk]

Speaking of Godseekers, they never comment on Hornet being half Wyrm too despite so many NPCs in Pharloom acknowledging that trait of hers

[spark valve]

yes

[steady prawn]

i wonnder if part of grandmother silk's betrayal is that she wasnt eaten, since normally spiders eat their parent and there is mutiple references to that fact of life in the game and even characters who try to avoid it

[whole hawk]

Then again the Godseekers are dumbasses

[lean temple]

Yeah that is strange, they never sense the Knight is born of two HBs either

[spark valve]

void interferes with their resonance

[lean temple]

Perhaps, then what about Hornet?

Not even sensing her Silk?

[spark valve]

they don't really talk about her it's unclear what they do and don't sense about her

[lean temple]

They're so random at times.

[spark valve]

they talk about the hbs who have the unique break rooms in p5

and pantheon heads

there's not really much opportunity for them to randomly exposit about others

[whole hawk]

Godseekers feel like more surfacelevel in their worship of the bugs they label as gods. I think they onky start caring once you get put through the blender of combat.

[lean temple]

Nothing about Hornet, Lifeblood Beast or Mr mushroom. Hmm

[whole hawk]

So theyll probably notice something is up with Hornet if she fought her way to the pantheons too

[ebon violet]

I'm not done Act 3 yet, but ||should I be confused about whether Grand Mother Silk cares about Lace or not?||

[lean temple]

Well she can't access them, at least maybe not without the Needolin

[lean temple]

She does care, but also wants Hornet so Lace got jealous

[whole hawk]

GMS is an inversion of Pale King in a way. No Cost too Great but in reverse.

[fair zealot]

so what's the overall idea of the lore, I'm not educated

[spark valve]

pharloom exists and shit is fine
grand mother silk shows up and creates the weavers as her 'daughters'
weavers decide they don't really like the situation, some of them flee. GMS then makes Lace and Phantom as new daughters.
Remaining weavers trap her and put her to sleep, building the citadel to keep her that way
weavers start to fade away, presumably because they have trouble reproducing
Citadel caste takes over, seizing power from weavers and continuing to using the citadel's song to keep the mother silk asleep while not entirely aware of what they're doing
citadel bugs eventually start using silk to attempt to attain immortality by surgically implanting it in their shells, eventually causing many of their minds to succumb to the grand mother silk, leading to the citadel being silenced.
She starts waking up, causing the haunting to take over pharloom at large, and sends hunting parties out to track down the descendants of weavers who fled including hornet, to gather their silk. This is probably to sustain Lace, who requires a large amount of silk to stay alive
Hornet is captured and brought to Pharloom, but Lace breaks her out because Lace is a rebellious little shit who wants hornet to fuck shit up so she has a chance to get back at her mom

[craggy smelt]

bad times in bug town 2

[fair zealot]

my first thought about the weaver queen ending was like, she wanted an heir, that's why she (i thought) made herrah seek a child with the pale wyrm

[spark valve]

she didn't make herrah do that

[fair zealot]

yeah after red memory i knew that theory was probably wrong lol

[lean temple]

Was this pre written lol

[spark valve]

no I typed it all

[lean temple]

Oh wow

[spark valve]

(it was)

[fair zealot]

so, presumably lace doesn't have much longer after the true ending?

or what's the idea there

[lean temple]

Also note that it was likely not called Pharloom before the Weavers. Phar because they evolved from Pharlids and loom cuz Weavers and silk

[spark valve]

depends on how much she got from grand mother silk right at the end as well as how much hornet can produce if she can produce enough

[fair zealot]

icic

so if hornet goes to great enough lengths to keep lace alive the weaver queen ending could potentially be inevitable huh

[lean temple]

Why would GMS need additional sources of Silk? She is literally Silk

[spark valve]

that's caused by her binding grand mother silk sister of the void takes that pretty firmly off the table

[spark valve]

I mean she clearly does

[fair zealot]

well she could seek power in other ways was my idea

[whole hawk]

Isnt GMS weakened abd contained by the citadel

[spark valve]

sure

[whole hawk]

Put to sleep even

[spark valve]

but she's in the process of waking up

if she wouldn't need silk after waking, no reason to send parties out

[whole hawk]

Though that does beg the question if she can now control the bugs of Pharloom couldnt she have just gotten then to wake her up?

[fair zealot]

if gms is gathering sources of silk, why disable widow's silk?

[whole hawk]

If that was even possible?

[spark valve]

well she did that's how she got the citadel to go quiet

waking up just takes time apparently

[radiant vale]

I just realized that snail shamans are just living void

[spark valve]

they aren't

[radiant vale]

or void with some soul inside them

[spark valve]

not that either

they have no void physically in them whatsoever

[radiant vale]

mhmm so they just happen to be pure black creatures that just look like void and worship void but arent actually void

[fair zealot]

additionally, she doesn't really seem to care much about phantom, is there a particular reason for this is it just good old fashioned favoritism

[radiant vale]

actually do we have any lore on them in either games

[spark valve]

yes, it explicitly says they aren't void

[spark valve]

could be there just wasn't enough to go around to sustain both or something

[whole hawk]

Phantom seems like a scuffed version of a silk child tbh

[radiant vale]

yea where

[random harbor]

Snail Shaman - Reacting to spells - Reacting to Abyss Shriek

That scream? Ooohh, distorted in such a way... It's not within the skills of us snails to do such a thing.
Wherever you draw this new power from, it's not a place my kind ever thought to look.

@tammo6424 used /npcs misc name: Snail Shaman category: Reacting to spells dialogue: Reacting to Abyss Shriek

[fair zealot]

i did notice that phantom's color scheme seems to be basically lace inverted

[spare pendant]

snail shaman is void is hilarious

[radiant vale]

then how why do the snail shamans worship the void in silksong, or atleast consider themselves as such

[spare pendant]

different people entirely

[spark valve]

different time or group or whatever either way they aren't made of the stuff

[spare pendant]

the snail shamans in pharloom like the void, but aren't the void

they're just snails lol

every snail looks like that

[fair zealot]

so if gms wanted sources of silk, why disable widow's silk?

[spark valve]

she may not have

[fair zealot]

oh are we thinking somebody else maybe did that? or are you saying maybe hornet's just wrong about that part lol

[spark valve]

pretty sure hornet doesn't say gms did it

[spare pendant]

hornet doesn't openly theorize it at all

[spark valve]

of anyone the likely candidate would be other weavers a long time ago (gms would keep her for her silk and citadel would probably just kill her)

[fair zealot]

talking to pavo after freeing bellhart iirc? she says widow's ability to produce silk was suppressed by the needles in her back

[spark valve]

that doesn't say anything about who did it

[fair zealot]

right

idk why i assumed it was gms

[sharp magnet]

So is silk song before or after hollow knight? I heard some people saying before and some saying after but I never hear hornet mention anything about the knight from HK so I assume it's before

[spark valve]

it is after

[sharp magnet]

Really?

[fair zealot]

definitely after

[whole hawk]

Very much after, hell we dont even know how much time has passed between HK and SS

[fair zealot]

have you gotten true ending?

[sharp magnet]

Damn so hornet really just does not care about the knight

[sharp magnet]

I'm still in act 1 😭

[spark valve]

that is not the case at all

[fair zealot]

then why are you in this channel this is spoiler zone 😭

[sharp magnet]

Oh...

Idc

[fair zealot]

basically, hornet in silksong has lived multiple times the lifetime of a common bug

[sharp magnet]

I heard she was immortal or something like that

[fair zealot]

effectively maybe, but hollow knight is kinda all about how "immortal" beings eventually die

[sharp magnet]

Ok but why? Is it because she's the daughter of the pale king and that one ugly dreamer from HK?

[spark valve]

more the former

[fair zealot]

yeah she inherited a ton of power from the pale king

[spare pendant]

hornet is immortal because of herrah

and probably but not necessarily pk

[sharp magnet]

At least she didn't get the ugly traits whew 😏

[spare pendant]

the weavers are immortal

[sharp magnet]

Oh

[fair zealot]

no? at least i don't think so

[spark valve]

weavers being immortal is questionable

[white panther]

oh, where is this from?

[spark valve]

basically every hybrid is last of their line and the weavers in pharloom were called fading when the citadel caste took over

[sharp magnet]

I mean it would make sense because they would have had to sleep for like... Ever to keep the radiances infection at bay but idk

[fair zealot]

a cage in the cradle mentions a weaver (in eighth part, to be fair) "frail from age"

[spare pendant]

All of the weavers were created by grandmother silk, yet survived through the rise and fall of both pharloom and hallownest

Well not all survived

[fair zealot]

that's basically what hallownest itself was doing imo, would you call hallownest immortal?

[spark valve]

long lived != immortal and almost all of them are dead now

[white panther]

i mean, being able to live for a very long time is very different from being immortal

[sharp magnet]

Mmm idk 🤷

[spare pendant]

The only indication of Hornet's immortality is also that she has lived a very long time

That doesn't work lol

[spark valve]

hornet's father is also a god

and it's stated that her lifespan is extraordinary

[sharp magnet]

What did happen to hallownest anyhow? Like after the knight either killed the radiance or locked it away inside himself

[spare pendant]

in terms of aging related feats, weavers have more than wyrms

[spark valve]

that is
not true

pk planning to rule an eternal kingdom

[fair zealot]

who was very notably not immortal lol

[spark valve]

his lifespan would be indefinite

he wouldn't die from aging which is the meaning of immortal that's relevant

[fair zealot]

hmm i suppose actually yeah

unrelated, what do we think about how well hornet would manage pharloom as the new weaver queen?

[sharp magnet]

Terrible

[spark valve]

not

the framing of it is like purely as a bad thing and wanting to avoid it is the entire motivation of the silk and soul quest which triggers act 3

[glass parrot]

Sorry late reply was trying to remember what gave me that idea

[spark valve]

they didn't choose that the caste came and took over from them

The mantle of rule, claimed greedily from Pharloom's fading first children, those bitter Weavers... it was yoke, not crown
said by the conductor

[glass parrot]

Oo I see

[spark valve]

a burden is passed in a sense but it was more the citadel caste saying "hey this citadel is cool it's ours now" and unknowingly making themselves responsible for the apparatus keeping grand mother silk asleep

[glass parrot]

I got you

[spark valve]

legendary fuckup on the caste's part

[glass parrot]

Fr😭

[spark valve]

I love moving into a house to find a sleeping eldritch being in the basement and accidentally waking it up by forgetting to sweep

[real crater]

I just got to act 3 and hornet is suffering from some kind of void sickness right

[spark valve]

Seemed like she just got injured by that last grab to me

Gms did get ‘er good

[real crater]

No I mean both times she was injured she was healed by someone with connection to void

First it was the chapel maid

[spark valve]

That was just stopping to recover

[real crater]

Then it was sherma who was passed the shamans mantle

[spark valve]

Sherma doesn’t know what a shaman is that’s the mantle of a caretaker of the shrine

[real crater]

Fair enough

[obsidian quail]

i’m curious about why Weavers made Citadel architecture so different from their Weavenests

acoustics?

[spark valve]

There is that but the citadel has also been undergoing constant construction and reconstruction at the behest of the architects and shit

What it looks like now is probably wildly different from what it looked like back when the weavers were in charge

Other than maybe cradle I doubt that was changed tooooo heavily

[obsidian quail]

that’s a good point

also i’d feel like a super hidden Weavenest somewhere in the Citadel or Underworks would have been nice

[spark valve]

The weavenests were places to hide from the mother, by the time the citadel was built she would’ve been asleep

[obsidian quail]

ahhh so need for them

and i’m assuming the remaining Weavers retreated there for a bit before dispersing after the citadel caste took over

[spark valve]

I imagine any easily accessible ones would also be stripped for silk pretty fast

[obsidian quail]

hence the Rune Harp in the Weavenest

or those Weavers just died

[spark valve]

Which one was that again

I think the exodus from the kingdom happened back before gms was put to sleep

Widow calls hornet the descendant of ‘those who dared to flee’ which makes me think they directly fled from gms’s influence.

[obsidian quail]

Weavenest Atla

[obsidian quail]

in that case the Rune Harp must have been left by the ones who stayed behind and temporarily sought refuge there post getting overthrown by the Caste

[ebon violet]

I'm not done Act 3 yet so maybe they address it directly at some point, but if they don't or I missed it, ||who freed Hornet at the start of the game?||

[obsidian quail]

and the finality seems like they died

whoever left that message

[quartz swallow]

Did anyone else notice that ||the architect|| is actually ||2 bugs in one shell||

[obsidian quail]

i think the Weavers could have been handled much better but they got the point across

[obsidian quail]

what makes u say that

[quartz swallow]

Go talk to them again

Their voice is clearly 2 voices

[craggy smelt]

Lace - she was acting out against GMSilk, she didn't want Hornet to reach the Citadel

[quartz swallow]

And they have 4 eyes

[craggy smelt]

I think that's just an echo-y effect to show they're mechanical

[quartz swallow]

No they talk about themselves as if they’re talking about more than one person

[ebon violet]

I thought that might be the case because she has the motive, but I wasn't sure that she had the powers shown.

[quartz swallow]

They use “our” and “we” when talking about their work

[craggy smelt]

that might just be them using 'the royal we' way of speaking

like the queen going 'we are not amused'

[quartz swallow]

I don’t think so

[ebon violet]

I took it as either that or them referring to the architects collectively

[quartz swallow]

They are the only one

[obsidian quail]

it’s not a rare thing to talk like that

[craggy smelt]

they are the twelfth of a group

[quartz swallow]

The others are dead though

[craggy smelt]

like the Borg

[obsidian quail]

also multiple eyes isn’t a good indicator when talking about bugs

[left osprey]

hi everyone this is my first time using this channel
i havent yet completed act 3, and if i get the answer to this later on, no need to answer
I want to know how the shamans got their snare to summon the void, i didnt know they had a connection with void

[ebon violet]

Does the Second Sentinel say "we"?

[quartz swallow]

They have 4 but they’re all lined up in a row

No bug has eyes like that

[craggy smelt]

they made it, it's assembled in a quest at the end of Act 2
they aren't Void beings, but they know magic, and magic can summon the Void

they used a lot of Soul and a Weaver binding tool

[left osprey]

what do they get from trapping gms tho? her soul?

[pseudo gazelle]

Is last judge a robot?

[craggy smelt]

they were just trying to bind her and removed her from the kingdom

[craggy smelt]

that doesn't mean anything
weavers have six eyes, 3 on each side, are they secretly 3 bugs in there, each on top of the other?

[obsidian quail]

yeah but they’re super techy bugs

[ebon violet]

Effectively kill her without Hornet having to absorb her power

[left osprey]

they didnt know it would cause such big damage?

[craggy smelt]

nope

[serene heath]

can someone explain if theres any intent with hornets look in the last like 2 seconds of the TE ending cutscene? im not too sure of her relationship with lace but its implying they're allies now right ? but she only ever saved lace because of circumstance. or does it just mean nothing

[left osprey]

oh ok i thought they did it despite knowing that, ty for clarifying

[craggy smelt]

Lace was giggling, Hornet's look is harder to interpret, but Hornet put a lot of effort into saving her (for whatever reason)
the title screen now shows Lace's pin with Hornet's needle, implying that they're cool now

I guess Hornet's overall intent was to get her to safety so Silk would sever her connection with Pharloom to stop the Void corruption

[bright igloo]

Hornet is void believers in shambles

[craggy smelt]

personally, I don't like Lace as a character and I don't see why Hornet would care about her much

[serene heath]

at first i thought it just meant like "holy shit that was a lot" but then yeah i also noticed the title screen so i was second guessing it. but didnt she only save lace because of her obligation to saving pharloom ?

[craggy smelt]

I guess maybe there's some shared sisterhood thing, since they both ultimately descend from Silk

maybe Hornet feels like she's lost enough siblings to the Void

(that's not a bad angle, actually...)

[serene heath]

thats actually a cool take

oh well i guess i was just looking too far into it

[edgy stone]

Hornet probably also sees laces situation as another continuation of the vessels

Somewhat creafted creatures bound by their fate

And hornet wants to free lace from that just as much as hornet felt sympathy for the vessels

[serene heath]

i think she references that at some point right ? like something about the way her life was created doesnt make it invalid i forgot the dialogue

[serene heath]

also makes a lot of sense yeah

[edgy stone]

Yeah it's dialouge specifically between lace and hornet

I think after her 2nd defeat

And its the only time the vessels are brought up even indirectly

[left osprey]

if gms were fully free, would she be less powerful than radiance? since she's said to be a pale being and i assume radiance to be more powerful than pale beings
(there probably isnt a way to directly compare but just asking)

[craggy smelt]

given her similarities to Radiance in many ways, i'm think Rad should be considered a pale being herself
what with 'pale being' now being a label that applies to more entities than just Pale King and White Lady

basically top-tier higher beings - PK even refers to Rad as 'blazing kin'

I wouldn't know about their relative power, though

[edgy stone]

Pale king almost basically means godking now

Though the fact his wyrmself was specifically called a pale wyrm implies hes special even somewhat among his kin

Otherwise the distinction of pale would be unnecessary

[craggy smelt]

yea, there could be lots of wyrms and roots, while the hallownest royalty are the Pale Wyrm and Pale Root

[left osprey]

or his species name is just pale wyrm and not wyrm

probably what you said tho

[serene heath]

isnt pale being just an indication of their color ? i dont think it has much significance

[edgy stone]

I doubt we'll ever get the true meaning of what constitutes a pale being but its certainly something just extremely strong and possibly old

[craggy smelt]

it was in the first game, and PK and WL were the only two referred to that way
but Hornet includes herself and Silk as 'pale' in SS
(and Rad is also pale in the sense of color)

[edgy stone]

Well hornet I think would be pale even under the hk interpretation

She is the daughter of a pale being

I doubt its not a genetic title

[craggy smelt]

so would the vessels - Tiso calls TK pale, because their shell is literally pale

[edgy stone]

Yeah the vessels are literal gods

[serene heath]

yeah i remember a few times characters refering to silk as pale or something similar and it had me mixed up a few times lol

[edgy stone]

Not even demi gods but full blooded

[lost thunder]

how many endings are there?

[craggy smelt]

if it just means color, then lots of stuff is pale
if it just means Hallownest royalty, then its PK and WL and maybe their kids
if it means something more, incorporating a god like Silk who is very Rad-like, then its a title for many entities

[edgy stone]

I refuse to not count the damn void as a god being

The vessels are in fact 150% void

Pale did also apply to pale ore in hk

[craggy smelt]

4, technically

[fair zealot]

probably a common question: what are the lore implications of first sinner deaths respawning you outside without creating a cocoon?

[edgy stone]

The strongesr material in the game

[craggy smelt]

and now pale oil, which boosts weapons to their strongest forms

[edgy stone]

Pale oil is odd

Wonder if its a farmed substance or if its from one being

[craggy smelt]

probably means its a memory fight - same thing happens against bosses like Khann and Karmelita

[fair zealot]

but you don't use elegy of the deep? so how would that happen

[craggy smelt]

it mentions 'sylphean slugs' I think - maybe they are 'pale touched', like the Palestag
pale ore might also be 'pale touched'

[fair zealot]

in fact you don't even use the needolin at all

[craggy smelt]

some similar power, maybe the memory of the First Sinner herself, also a powerful weaver
like how in the original game, you could sometimes enter the dream realm even without the dream nail

[edgy stone]

I think we see one non pale diety in ss

Nyleth I'm pretty sure is a regular higher being

[fair zealot]

and it is slightly different mechanically from memories, in memories your tool uses don't count and so your tools are repaired for free when you die

but it's kinda the opposite for first sinner

so I'm not inclined to think it's a memory but idk

[pseudo gazelle]

Pale oil is an aphids bile gland

[edgy stone]

I do think pale is often used thematically to show opposition vs the void

Both are the polar opposites of one another

The void also seems to be one of the only things truly able to kill a pale being

[craggy smelt]

I don't really get that impression, but creating the growth of shellwood is a feat certainly, she could be

[edgy stone]

Actually we dont see a pale being die outside of void interference

Pale kings death is still a mystery but be it regret or void itself its related somewhat

[edgy stone]

She just seems almost too strong to create an entire area just by herself but she is not the strongest in game

Though of course we only fight a fading memory of nyleth

[craggy smelt]

maybe - creating the growth and plant-creatures of an entire region is on par with what Unn did

[serene heath]

room is bound to chain by runes, and first sinner (if the name is legit) should probably be long dead. hyperbolic time chamber rules or maybe something silly. also the other penitent notes say absolution granted after death, whereas hers is denied

[craggy smelt]

I think PK withered away in grief myself, but his death might have drawn the Void out of his fallen constructs, hence it being all over his throne room

[edgy stone]

I do think void is a naturally occurring substance in the world and is created by the whole regret idea that jiji had in hk

It either creates more void or beckons it

Void to me has always felt akin to oil in a sense

[craggy smelt]

I'd love to know more about that - personally I'd prefer the beckoning, and Void's origins be far more primordial, mysterious, and detached from mortal bugs

Sula was in torment about watching kingdoms wither and called forth the Void, maybe regret has something to do with the ritual they used

[edgy stone]

A cumulative mass of the bugs regrets and lives over the entire history of their workd

[craggy smelt]

maybe, although that would tie its origins to mortal bugs, which I don't really like

eldritch stuff should be beyond mortality

[edgy stone]

Im in the exact opposite boat I would like the void to be more natural and explainable

[craggy smelt]

then we are at odds
at loggerheads

[edgy stone]

It's the great end all of life

[craggy smelt]

its hunger for soul might be some indication of that
its basically death and wants more life

[edgy stone]

I have a few headcannons I like about hks world

I dont think its a globe

[craggy smelt]

good, me neither

[edgy stone]

Infinitly spreading plain that goes Infinitly down as it is also Infinitely wide

So like the void never has a bottom

[craggy smelt]

yeees
no sun, no sky
just underground bug kingdoms forever

[edgy stone]

I do think the void should be unexplainable in some aspects

The void having a finite amount I think would be kinda on the lamer side

[calm chasm]

Has it been mentioned anywhere that getting stuff from memory was possible?
Felt like the everbloom thing was a bit of plot armor (not that big of an issue tbh)

[craggy smelt]

the first game you have charms, real objects of power created from wishes and thoughts
and higher beings can create entire races from dreams
the memory of a thing brought into reality as the thing itself isn't much different
that's how I feel, anyway

[edgy stone]

Its also the idea that the pale palace itself is a memory

Its either the real thing or the memory of it

[craggy smelt]

especially since its some super special magical flower

[edgy stone]

Multiple beings also had to die for it to be created

3 of the strongest in the entire kingdom and 3 of the greatest magicians to create a singular flower

[calm chasm]

ig that's sort of fair

also, at the end, when the Knight showed up, the void monster thing flashed on the screen
so they did acknowledge godmaster ending

[flat kernel]

Btw the sprintermaster swift is alive in silksong

[edgy stone]

Yeah its kinda both endings

[craggy smelt]

yeah, either its the canon ending, or its just an allusion to what TK can become

[craggy smelt]

he sure is
I wonder if he's the sprintmaster, or if there are many of them (and many dashmasters)

[green yoke]

I kind of don't like that the Everbloom in the Sister of the Void ending was fraying and weakened. Because then that would mean even in the good Godhome ending, it's only delaying things

[edgy stone]

I do think honestly that its just hornet seeing the knights true power underneath the unified void

[edgy stone]

Well it didnt delay anything, it stopped it

The everbloom seems to not hold back void but infact destroy it

[green yoke]

Right but what happens when the bloom runs out of power

As it was in Sister of the Void

[flat kernel]

Could hornet be considered one? She's one of the fastest bugs

[craggy smelt]

the one in the Godhome ending also seems to be damaged after banishing the Void - its power isn't infinite

[edgy stone]

The everbloom hornet uses breaks after she literally plunges hersels into an infinte amount of void

Its power is working constantly

[craggy smelt]

maybe, you can get a badge as a memento

[calm chasm]

did Hornet mentioned anything about current day Hallownest

[edgy stone]

No but its cannon that the radiance is dead

So the kingdom has nothing but time to heal and be forgotten

[craggy smelt]

the age of the mantis has come

[calm chasm]

yea so either True Ending/Godhome happened, I'm just curious to what has happened since

Democratic Republic of Hallownest

[edgy stone]

The tribes and villages and stragglers will live inside but its probably going to just be forgotten undearneath dirtmouth

[craggy smelt]

all will be crushed under the merciless reign of King Elderbug

[edgy stone]

A lot of things will change as well like greenpath most likely dying

City of tears at some point will be drowned out and the blue lake drained

[flat kernel]

No, the only thing hornet mentioned about the first game is that she knows what the void is and how it can be stopped

[craggy smelt]

with the infected gone it'll be much safer - more and more treasure hunters will be returning, more stories will circulate about the wealth available, more travelers will come to salvage
something new can be built

it won't be Hallownest, but the region will have a future, it'll just belong to someone else

[edgy stone]

Other than the pale lady all of the gods that laid rest in hallownest are long gone

[craggy smelt]

Unn might recover

[edgy stone]

And the pale lady herself cannot interact with the outside world anymore

[flat kernel]

I think it's really stupid TC's philosophy of no true endings, because silksong story feels weird, especially hornet, it really seems like she forgot what happened in the first game

[craggy smelt]

but actually yeah, Hornet and Lace go back, and there's pale roots everywhere, turning people into root zombies
"Here we go again~!"

[flat kernel]

Hornet says in hollow knight that she feels happy about what the little ghost is doing

But in silksong she doesn't remember these moments with the knight when everything is falling down

It's really weird

[craggy smelt]

I'm sure she hasn't forgotten, it just isn't brought up
honestly, the whole thing felt really ambiguous as to whether it was a sequel or prequel until the true ending

[calm chasm]

Not sure what you meant here

[flat kernel]

The void is back

Hornet should've been surprised

She wasn't

[calm chasm]

She certainly did tho?
She rushed to the snails for answers

[craggy smelt]

she seemed pretty surprised to me

[calm chasm]

Yea that's what I thought

[flat kernel]

I mean she wasn't surprised like if it wasn't supposed to be there

She doesn't mention that the void was controlled

And the void IS controlled in silksong, for some reason the knight only acted when hornet was in danger

Maybe the knight wanted the destruction of pharloom?

[craggy smelt]

TK might not care if some fool messes with the Void and it goes badly for them
'reap what you sow, fool'
but stepped in only when it noticed Hornet was involved

[flat kernel]

That seems like the case

[calm chasm]

Pharloom to TK is stranger anyway, it's not like it'd have cared

[timber pond]

skarsingers song also resits the silken control of Grandmother

[flat kernel]

Btw what the greatmother silk actually is

[naive crag]

hornet mentions she sees prime karmelita as her equal

[flat kernel]

She doesn't care until we beat lost lace

[craggy smelt]

if you want the little bugger to care about you, you gotta earn it

[flat kernel]

She helps us to get out

[naive crag]

she wants to save lace

[craggy smelt]

she's maintaining the big cocoon you're inside that's holding back the Void, she gives up the last of her power when Hornet is prepared to leave with Lace

[polar bane]

imo godhome cos shade lord is seen

[flat kernel]

Is GMS truly evil?

I think maybe she's like a god who thinks too much about herself

[calm chasm]

looking at how dystopian Pharloom is, I would say yes

but she does love Lace

[craggy smelt]

she seems really horrible now, yes
I'm still unclear as to why exactly the Weavers turned against her

[edgy stone]

I think its due to lace and phantom

[naive crag]

my headcanons are that weavers are greedy they seem unpleasant

[calm chasm]

yea so I don't really get the weaver thing, maybe I missed stuff
why are the weavers dead

[edgy stone]

The first weaver says how gms lied about being the weavers mothers and lied about them being holy

[polar bane]

whats the whole link between gms and the weavers

[naive crag]

they aren't dead they just left pharloom

[naive crag]

Gms created the weavers

[edgy stone]

I think this implies that silk started to abuse or castaway the weavers once her perfect children aka lace and phantom were crafted

[flat kernel]

The weavers really seem very greedy, in the red memory hornet's mother keeps saying that hornet is destined to greater things

[edgy stone]

The weavers were not holy or gods but lace and phantom were

[polar bane]

and is hera a weaver or just a spider

[naive crag]

herrah is a weaver

[polar bane]

aight

[naive crag]

we dont know why she looks like that tho

[naive crag]

at some point they tried to recreate gms but couldnt

[flat kernel]

It seems like all weavers looking similar is not canon anymore

[naive crag]

they wanted a higher being so they made eva

which failed

[calm chasm]

because the vessel is too frail

[flat kernel]

That's the reason why herrah wanted to have a child with the pale king?

[naive crag]

we dont know

i have the theory theres no male weavers so they couldnt reproduce by normal means

but theres no confirmation for anything rlly

[craggy smelt]

I think that's right
their tablets all refer to 'sister' only, and they're called 'daughters'

[flat kernel]

Wait that seems right

We never see a male weaver

[calm chasm]

wasn't there a male bug statue/corpse in Deepnest

[flat kernel]

Hornet is also not male even tho she's a hybrid

[calm chasm]

is that guy not a weaver

[craggy smelt]

Deepnest had more than just weavers, the Beasts were an established tribe that the Weavers joined as a sub-group

[flat kernel]

What statue?

[naive crag]

dont remember which statue youre talking about

[calm chasm]

i meant corpse

[calm chasm]

ah that makes sense

[naive crag]

but we do see baby weavers in hollow knight

could be a retcon tho thats what most people believe

[flat kernel]

If retcons happened it would be nice for team cherry to communicate them

Since there's a lot of nuances about the world of both games

Making it even more subjective is not fun at all

At least for me

[craggy smelt]

weavers can reproduce with other creatures (hornet, obv, but there's mention of captured weavers as 'half' and 'quarter' in the Cradle)

maybe they had children with the Beasts

i'm pretty sanguine about the retcons, for the most part

concocted my rationalizations

[edgy stone]

I just dont like the herrah shit

I liked everything else

The shamans are like the most logical part honestly and jt shouldve always been the case with them

[naive crag]

i feel like they love keeping things a mystery

doubt itll happen

[queen patrol]

weavers might reproduce parthenogenically (still produce viable female offspring if eggs aren't fertilized)

[naive crag]

but then did herra sacrifice herself only to make hornet half wyrm?

her wish was to be a mother

never specified something beyond that

[queen patrol]

herrah specifically could've been infertile

[naive crag]

how did she give birth to hornet then

[timber pond]

Well we got answers to alot of mystires while crateing new ones for the future

[queen patrol]

pk found a way around it

[timber pond]

Like WHAT THE FUCK IS THE GREY ROOT PARASITE. and The steel City

[craggy smelt]

in the first game, it was assumed she wanted an heir with royal blood to secure her claim to Deepnest's throne, since she was 'common'
now, it might be that Herrah was initially on board with the idea of breeding a Weaver god-queen to deal with Silk, and tapped PK because he was also a pale god
either way, she eventually came to want Hornet to make her own destiny

[naive crag]

ohh it makes sense she wanted a half god if you put it like that

they always knew they would come for her as vespa mentioned

[craggy smelt]

yea

[gloomy path]

what exactly was herrah again

[naive crag]

weaver

[flat kernel]

Grey root parasite is also not dead, hornet just controlled it

[gloomy path]

why does she look widely different from the rest, the other weavers had ballerina bodies with big heads

[naive crag]

we dont know but shes confirmed weaver

[gloomy path]

might have been a different kind of weaver then, not of pharlid

[naive crag]

all weavers are from pharloom

gms made all of them

[gloomy path]

yeah im saying gms evolved some other creature to be a weaver

[naive crag]

it could be

im also curious as to why herrah is the queen of deepnest and not someone else

[maiden meteor]

Doesn’t Herrah say that Hornet shouldn’t listen to Weavers’ talk and choose her own path instead or smth?

[gloomy path]

by strength, the beast right

[craggy smelt]

could be, it's an interesting idea

[craggy smelt]

she married the original king of Deepnest

[queen patrol]

before herrah's species became weird and ambiguous i used to assume she married the blood heir of deepnest and, well. did what many spiders do to their mates

[gloomy path]

no child out of that tho, that we know of....?

[maiden meteor]

maybe PK just smashed pieces of their souls together or something

he has a way with stuffing soul into things

[gloomy path]

he just abyssal shrieked all over the beast 😳

[queen patrol]

yeah. given the Everything with the vessels and wl, pale king probably knew his way around reproductive magic and could bypass any difficulties he and herrah would've had

[naive crag]

they def fucked

white lady has this dialogue

[narrow glacier]

Beast Crest is probably Herrah’s fighting style

[queen patrol]

if a tree and a magic earthworm god can spawn 10000000 children, surely a spider and said magic earthworm god can spawn one(1)

[naive crag]

you get the beast crest after defeating savage BEASTfly tho

[maiden meteor]

Aren’t Weaver not just normal spiders as well

[naive crag]

weavers are ascended by gms but they were normal bugs at some point

[maiden meteor]

I assume they all have like a piece of GMS essence allowing them to produce silk

So it probably would make Hornet like 3/4 god

[narrow glacier]

Herrah could’ve beaten and eaten a savage beastfly tho

[gloomy path]

im still confused on why the caste was bringing the weaver offsprings to the citadel, while the gms was still asleep how did gms control or nudged what the caste was gonna do

[naive crag]

she was controlling them already no?

[gloomy path]

if gms had control already why cant they just forcefully wake her up

[maiden meteor]

GMS was “desperate to awaken” so maybe they needed Weaver spawn to break the cocoon or smth

[gloomy path]

that might be it, it's just wierd that all it took to wake the god was challenging it

[maiden meteor]

idk why not bring First Sinner tho, maybe she was too scary to open the jail

Also I recently realized that weaver shrines have apparently whole weaver inside them

[gloomy path]

the sinner was a sealed in a weird way, it needed some needolin magic to break the shell

[naive crag]

they already brought more weavers in before hornet

[maiden meteor]

afaik most of them died/almost died

or maybe they weren’t weaver/strong enough for the purpose

[craggy smelt]

i got the impression that Silk needed to harvest silk from the weavers to break her binding
hence why she had the Citadel hunting them, plus all the operations to harvest and recycle silk

[gloomy path]

i thought at first the caste brought the weavers offspring to extract the silk so the cocoon seal wouldn't break, but when i see that gms was the one who was in control im getting mixed signals

[maiden meteor]

also weird thing is that they had Widow whom they stripped of ability to make silk for whatever reason

ohhhh

maybe, maybe she needed weavers to make silk for Lace

Hornet does say Lace would need massive amounts of silk to sustain

[gloomy path]

widow was wierd, looks like the caste had control of her and widow in turn was controlling bellhart, odd that this particular weaver was used like this instead of sealed like sinner

[maiden meteor]

maybe First Sinner refused to submit

we see her mask is caved in implying she was likely tortured or something

[gloomy path]

her mask was removed, she just wearing a cloth of sort

[maiden meteor]

or maybe she defected before GMS was even sealed by other weavers

[gloomy path]

well that might be the case, or how to explain that someone from the caste just knew how to disable a weaver's silk powers

[naive crag]

her mask is broken since she was ascended

not as a punishment

if youre talking about fs

[maiden meteor]

Oh I just noticed First Sinner is sealed in similar fashion to weavers in ability shrines

[pine wigeon]

has ANYONE found pigby in Act 3? the little pilgrim in bone bottom who appears in Far Fields|| if you kill skull tyrant in Act 2 instead of act 1?||

[maiden meteor]

yeah im 90% certain she was sealed by other weavers

[gloomy path]

yeah needed that needolin magic to wake

[naive crag]

im sure hes dead

[gloomy path]

im not sure if he's stiill alive in survivor camp

[pine wigeon]

there's no body tho, they give you the name

[naive crag]

theres barely bodies

[pine wigeon]

I checked the first flea area in the marrow, is there another spot they could be?

[naive crag]

in bonebottom there isnt anything just ruins

the same in pilgrims rest

[pine wigeon]

there's a body when she dies in the skull tyrant invasion

[naive crag]

act 3 is really different

during skull tyrant invasion theres a whole funeral its barely the same

now no one is alive in both those places

[gloomy path]

if he aint there then he gone

lotta people offscreened

[pine wigeon]

?? but in act 3 you can find the builder bug and other bone bottom residents in the first flea area

[maiden meteor]

btw what happens to guy in Pilgrim’s rest in Act 3

[gaunt lark]

I just used needolin on grandmother silk and the void pulled up to eat her, is it the knight, or the shade lord?

[naive crag]

wait really

is there a requirement for it i didnt find anyone there

[pine wigeon]

DAS BULLLshiiit right after they revealed the NAME of an NPC? they've gotta have SOME confirmation

[pine wigeon]

dunno, i did a delivery and there they were!

[gloomy path]

it was just the void, it seems shadelord isn't exactly the entire void, he had to deal with the tentacles that were gonna attack hornet and lace

[maiden meteor]

oh thank god builder bug is alive

[pine wigeon]

you mean the shop guy?

[naive crag]

RIGHT I WAS SO SAD ABOUT BUILDER BUG

[maiden meteor]

yeah

[naive crag]

ill check rn i never went there

[gaunt lark]

I seee

[pine wigeon]

FR i was relived bc i saw the builder bug statue destroyed despite me leaving it up

[maiden meteor]

I really love how hopeful Act 3 is despite everything going to hell

[naive crag]

the fleas specially

why host a festival for the end of the world

[pine wigeon]

yeah nah the shop guy unfortunately you see his shop crumpled so i think its assumed- but NO BODY- so im wondering where would the pilgrims run to from the Pilgrim's rest in Far fields?

[pine wigeon]

ooof idk bout that, it's hopeful but GRIM

also ||Lost Gormund|| fight had me SO SAD

I was wondering if it was possilbe to save him

[naive crag]

you dont need to spoiler here

[pine wigeon]

oh, understood

[naive crag]

i was relaly sad about bellhart

the bell guy was crying

my heart broke

[maiden meteor]

I just love how Hornet goes basically “Hell naw, not on my watch” and goes out of her way to improve morale

Beats some sense into Pinmaster as well

She might have caused some little issues in wormways though

[pine wigeon]

FR, brings back trauma from the HK's singing bug (Myla?) when she stopped singing!

[solar agate]

Yeah but bonus HP tho'

[pine wigeon]

top heart break moment for me was zaza crouching beside gormund's dead body

[gloomy path]

needolin zaza and tear up

[maiden meteor]

It balances out by Sherma being alive and well and becoming awesome leader

[naive crag]

what does zaza say

[naive crag]

bro fuck sherma i want my babies back

[pine wigeon]

YUPP "brave to the very end.... thank you"

[maiden meteor]

Speaking of Sherma I think it’s really cool how they saw horrors of Whiteward and instead of it breaking them it just makes them double down on helping others

[gloomy path]

sherma came from outside pharloom, bro was built different

bro was a top dodger, how tf did he survive all the way through without looking worse for wear

[solar agate]

He sang at all the doors we had to parkour over

[maiden meteor]

Positive vibes and singing

[gloomy path]

still needed to climb all the way to last judge at blasted steps

[modest coyote]

ok so uhhhh can someone explain to me is the knight the most powerful being in the hollowknight universe?

[maiden meteor]

Perhaps

it’s hard to say cause it seems they’re just chilling

[gloomy path]

we havent seen anyone take the battle to void btw, the last 2 events of them killing gods is when they were sufficently weakened

[maiden meteor]

Pharloom Apocalypse was most likely caused by uncontrolled void (and GMS trying to save Lace) and not on Knight’s accord

it also took Knight a bit to see the ruckus in Pharloom’s Abyss and come just in time to save Hornet

[pine wigeon]

unless there's something that can control more void than Shade Lord, because The knight's power over the unorganized mass of void only consists of his sibling vessels

[modest coyote]

i mean

thats still a lot

[pine wigeon]

agreed

[gloomy path]

the void is still this deadly uncontrolable mass

[craggy smelt]

they summon Void tendrils and a huge void mass to assault the Radiance as well, not just the individual siblings
(also they can swim in Void pools without harm)

they probably didn't care about Pharloom until they realized someone important to them was involved
i'm fine with the Void still generally being hostile out in the world, cuz its not like TK would necessarily care about some fools messing with it

[maiden meteor]

I assume Knight’s influence, just like other Higher Beings’ is limited in area

[craggy smelt]

that too

it was probably always a little silly to assume they controlled all the Void everywhere in the cosmos at all times

[maiden meteor]

it’s just that Knight can probably travel really fast anywhere due to Abyss probably spanning entire world

[gloomy path]

i think knight only ever arrived since he noticed the everbloom

[craggy smelt]

or noticed hornet, once the everbloom burnt out and she was revealed to be in the Void

[modest coyote]

when i say "a being" i mean with some intelligence right?

like i dont think the void as a whole has intelligence

radiance has intelligence, pale beings have etc,...

the knight does too

[maiden meteor]

Knight might have noticed general disturbances in Pharloom and then sensed Hornet in abyss

[craggy smelt]

that's right the Void is like a big soup of non-specific thought, without focus

[naive crag]

i couldnt find pilby

[gloomy path]

he's a goner then

[maiden meteor]

Hornet does have quite unique soul and we know void is attracted to soul

[modest coyote]

my perception of void is its a bit like hades

[maiden meteor]

and since knight too has a part of PK’s soul they could probably easily distinguish Hornet

[modest coyote]

or the river styx

everything eventually ends up in void

[maiden meteor]

I think void is more of an antithesis to other Higher Beings

[naive crag]

are there any leitmotifs in silksong

[maiden meteor]

since most of imagery relating to higher beings is tied in light

[maiden meteor]

there are couple Dies Irae usages, most notably Bell Shrines and GMS’ theme

[modest coyote]

i thoguht it was strange/cool how in hollowknight we "descend" but the true boss is a light-being "radiance", but in silksong we ascend and our true boss ||is a void bveing||

i think thats pretty interesting

[maiden meteor]

in both games you go in one direction to then rapidly go in other

[naive crag]

are these the only ones

thsoe are the only ones i could notice

[maiden meteor]

there’s also hornet’s theme reprise playing in Slab fight

[naive crag]

hollow knight had a toooon

specially pks motif was in basically everything

[modest coyote]

i do dislike how hornet kinda causes the apocolypse accidentally

[maiden meteor]

it’s Snails’ fault really

[modest coyote]

like sure GMS was terrible but you ended up killing 50% of people

[naive crag]

she didnt count with lace doing that

[modest coyote]

ik its not her intention

[craggy smelt]

I found the diving bell in Act 2, and I lost my mind. I knew what it meant.
"This shit is going to Void Town!"

[modest coyote]

oh btw did yall notice

the diving shell... is a shell... like the snail shamans...

[maiden meteor]

I mean, other variant is probably even worse

[solar agate]

It's a bell

[modest coyote]

hah im joking a lil

[maiden meteor]

When Hornet consumes GMS it looks like entire Pharloom is just done

[modest coyote]

ik ik but imagine

team cherry quickly change this to be a snail shell

[craggy smelt]

oh that's right it is a bell

[maiden meteor]

I wonder what were Snail Shamans thinking too

[modest coyote]

tbh ig a snail shaman wouldnt wanna use one of his fellows own corpse for transport

[maiden meteor]

did they just want to feed void a god to see what happens

[modest coyote]

they got high on that dark powder and got addicted

huffing void and got bored

[naive crag]

what if snail shamans just wanted to free pharloom

[modest coyote]

hold on hear me out

[naive crag]

they kill themselves for it...

[modest coyote]

doesnt the floor kinda remind of a shell?

idk

[craggy smelt]

the shamans wanted to free Pharloom from Silk, they didn't expect the Void apocalypse

[modest coyote]

the shamans had to have gotten to void right?

[maiden meteor]

tbf when Hornet confronts them they do say that Hornet should have known about their fascination with void

[modest coyote]

no hornet implies they knew

[solar agate]

Tbf we should have also figured they are snail shamans lol

[craggy smelt]

no, Hornet is angry they used the Void, they tell Hornet she should've known what it would take
they didn't expect the Void to use Silk's threads to invade Pharloom

[solar agate]

And if you played HK you knew they were void related

[modest coyote]

i mean obv they didnt expect to have the apocylyps

[maiden meteor]

I think shamans didn’t intend for the apocalypse to happen and Lace was the one to mess everything up

[modest coyote]

look the snails had the go to void right?

who built the bell

[solar agate]

Tbf she saved you

[modest coyote]

why else would they have a bell going to the fucking void

[maiden meteor]

GMS was trying to resist void to save Lace and as a result shot her threads from the abyss and into Pharloom which resulted in void climbing them

[naive crag]

even weavers have a weavenest in the void

[maiden meteor]

more likely Weavers

[modest coyote]

ik the weavers were there too

but did we ever get some lore reason why?

[empty sierra]

why would weavers build a bell wasnt that a citadel thing?

[modest coyote]

tbf its a bell

bell does ring a citidel shaped bell

[maiden meteor]

Citadel was controlled by weavers before GMS went awry afaik

[empty sierra]

actually what is up with the bells everywhere

[modest coyote]

cause its the citidel stuff

[solar agate]

It's not like they mind controled the whole of pharloom and made them build it

[modest coyote]

the whole pharloom is a giant fucking bell

[craggy smelt]

the shamans used a spell to bring the Void to them, they didn't go to it

[modest coyote]

how would they have found out about void to the first place

[craggy smelt]

magic

[maiden meteor]

I mean Void is a really interesting stuff, makes sense Weavers would want to explore it

[naive crag]

citadel of song

[empty sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-hollow-knight-hollow-night-silksong-faridulasimanet-sherma-silksong-gif-171830693794769624

[modern bay]

Is Fextralife a good wiki location for Silksong? It's the wiki I've been updating

[maiden meteor]

there’s a theory going around that shamans might be either descendants or remnants on ancient civilization

[pine wigeon]

theyre the few beings that know how to manipulate soul (which is why they hand you containers of soul), that knowledge must have some connection to the void for them I think

[pine wigeon]

ik they definitely tried to learn from them

[maiden meteor]

I mean in first game abyss has a shrine specifically activated by one of shaman’s spells

[empty sierra]

the abyss shriek one right?

[naive crag]

what was abyss shriek base name

[empty sierra]

wraiths or something

[craggy smelt]

actually, the crossroads shaman doesn't recognize the spell the Knight gets from the Abyss and the Ancient Civilization shrine-thing there
so I don't think the snails have anything to do with the AC

[pine wigeon]

yoo on that note, why was there weaver abilities stored in pharloom's abyss

[maiden meteor]

and we also know ancient civilization utilized souls a lot, which shamans do as well

[craggy bison]

can anyone tell me why i feel bad for grandma silk in sister of the void ending

[craggy smelt]

you have empathy

[empty sierra]

she sacrifice herself

[craggy bison]

why was she even haunting everyone?

[maiden meteor]

She does kinda sacrifice herself to help Hornet save Lace

[naive crag]

i have the hc gms just wanted to be loved by someone but was very controlling so they left her

[craggy smelt]

to break open the seal she was bound in

[maiden meteor]

She was put to eternal slumber by weavers and her only means of escaping was zombifying everyone

[pine wigeon]

?? cant she get lace to do that

[craggy bison]

how does controlling people help her achieve that

[craggy bison]

how was zombifying everyone gonna help her get out

[pine wigeon]

i see, need more silk for that huh?

[naive crag]

they brought hornet to pharloom

and other weavers

[empty sierra]

idon think lace wanted that, she tries to stop you from reaching gms

[craggy bison]

wait that makes cents

this is giving me flashbacks of the hollow knight

[empty sierra]

why was gms sealed in the first place tho

[maiden meteor]

Could be a lot of reasons

[craggy bison]

good question

[craggy smelt]

the Weavers bound her, and when they couldn't keep her trapped themselves they orchestrated the rise of the Citadel to act as a cage for her
but she wouldn't stay bound and kept getting closer to waking up
the Weavers ran, but she took over the Citadel to hunt them down
she seems to need their silk and magic to fully break apart their binding

[maiden meteor]

I think it’s possible that shamans could just forget the origins of their magic

well, not entirely

[modest coyote]

we saw more evidence of this in hollowknight than silksong

[craggy bison]

why did they seal her in the first place

[modern bay]

Sorry to ask again, but does anyone know is Fextralife is a valid wiki to update for Silksong?

[craggy smelt]

I think it's more likely that multiple groups have used the Void in different ways
the steel clan also has vassal that can use Void rituals

[undone fable]

use the fan wiki

[empty sierra]

idek i like hollowknight.wiki more seems fitting

[undone fable]

https://hollowknight.wiki/w/Hollow_Knight_Wiki

[craggy smelt]

unknown, they had some kind of falling out - the First Sinner claims she lied to them