sk-lore

[spiral swift]

Pharloom isn't in infection range anyway I think, Rad was just targeting hallownest

[blissful canyon]

or just that it couldnt reach into pharloom

[naive crag]

because pharloom isnt hallownest

radiance wouldnt reach that far

she barely reaches into deepnest

[modern bay]

Pharloom is not Hallownest yeah, the infection is solely throughout the Kingdom of Hallownest.

[blissful canyon]

is there anything given about how far pharloom is from hallownest?

[modern bay]

Only that it is very far, not much else.

[spare pendant]

He didn't have much choice when he had to build stuff on the edge of Hallownest. The colosseum was probably all PK would allow

[spiral swift]

He could've just gone elsewhere

Again, the colo is too small anyway

[naive crag]

anyways

[spiral swift]

Bardoon, who is bigger than the colosseum, says he's too small to be a wyrm

[naive crag]

doesnt nyleth fit your higher being description? @spare pendant

[spare pendant]

I haven't encountered nyleth

[spiral swift]

Does Nyleth even show any like special abilities kr anything?

[uncut holly]

So Nyleth was worshipped, but its possible they could just be a seed entity that made all the plant life in Shellwood

[naive crag]

she created all the life in shellwood

[distant briar]

This makes no sense because we know of the Pale lurker who was insanely devoted to the pale king and not the ruler of the Collosseum. He wouldnt have been devoted to PK if it was a seperate kingdom in which he fought

[modern bay]

Not in battle

[uncut holly]

I dont think Nyleth is a higher being, as we are able to kill them, while most higher beings cant be killed easily for one reason or another.

[spiral swift]

Really? Where'd you find it out?

[uncut holly]

It is in her journal description

[naive crag]

her heart and achievement is also called the seed

[spiral swift]

Oh(I don't even read the top part lmao I only do it for hornet's bit)

[distant briar]

In Silksong we see many corpses as big if not bigger than the Colosseum in Far fields and there are like 10 of those not to mention Sprintmasters cave

[uncut holly]

I dont think its really a bugs size that determines if its a higher being, a giant bug could be a higher being. But I feel higher beings usually have an untouchable power level. Like the Radiance in Hollow Knight couldnt be killed and probably could have only died the way that it did die

[naive crag]

the text after defeating her

[spare pendant]

We don't have any indication that wyrms can choose when to cast off their shell, only that they do and they become much smaller afterwards.

As for size, the colosseum is the same size as the cast off shell, barring length. Length is unreliable simply because it looks like the colosseum was cut off at the end

[modern bay]

I don't think so either, size shouldn't represent higher power, although the correlation with the creatures that have been created in the series is there.

[uncut holly]

It is possible Nyleth was the first inhabitant of Pharloom. But GMS and the Citadel all came much later

[distant briar]

for me every higher being has dominion over something (except the wyrms as a species)

[spare pendant]

It's not a separate kingdom, it just seems to be independent (like the hive)

[spiral swift]

Do keep in mind the wyrm's cast has also been rotting away for a WHILE. We see it at a fragment of its size

[uncut holly]

I mean also White Lady as a species

[modern bay]

Along with the Mantis tribe

[spare pendant]

I mean yeah but it's a hollow shell. It's not going to just shrink in width like that.

[naive crag]

also what classifies something as a pale being

[spare pendant]

we have literally no idea

[modern bay]

I was under the impression Hallownest was the kingdom

[naive crag]

gms is a pale being supposedly

[spiral swift]

Uhhhh white

[uncut holly]

We dont deliberately know of any other wyrms than Pale King, although where was the battle of the black wyrm, which we still know nothing about and couldve just been a cool name

[spare pendant]

Uhhh yes? Wdym you WERE under the impression

There are independent territories within the region of hallownest just like irl

[modern bay]

I meant this to say that the colosseum wouldn't be an entire other kingdom

[whole holly]

yeah , all, white higher beings are pale beings apparently, it's cool team cherry wants to add to lore but Definitions are confusing

[modern bay]

Unless I'm interpreting the conversation incorrectly

[uncut holly]

I mean every place in Hollow Knight is Hallownest and under Pale King rule

[modern bay]

Which is very possible, I'm extremely tired

[spiral swift]

Names mean shit tbf, greyroot and voltvyrm for example

[spare pendant]

I know... it's just a separate territory like the hive

[uncut holly]

I mean Greyroot is grey and a root. Their also the same type of creature as White Lady

[modern bay]

I was adding to your point, not to the contrary

[spare pendant]

Roots do seem to be a much broader category than wyrms

[spare pendant]

Ohh okay

[whole holly]

plus Dream and Essence particles allowed us to distinct between poweful bugs and higher beings easily, you can't do that in Silksong

[uncut holly]

I mean we know that Grey Root is also very likely a higher being in all except being directly stated. They kill GMS and us before we even get a chance to bind GMS.

[distant briar]

If the colosseum really was a wyrm the lore would have atleast hinted at it. Saying it’s a wyrm just because of it’s size and the Lord fool doesn’t make sense to me. As I said in Silksong Far fields there are many corpses even bigger than the colosseum and noone thinks those are Wyrms

[modern bay]

Since you mentioned Greece earlier, I imagine the functioning of Hallownest was very similar to the functioning of City States within Greece

[whole holly]

Voltwyrm? or voltvyrm, what do we know about it?

[naive crag]

greyroot is the shellwood witch right

[uncut holly]

Yep

[spiral swift]

I think it's voltvyrm? It's the electric coral thing, idrk anything else, the journal didn't give much I remember

[naive crag]

i think the white lady is different from her since itd be stupid to classify all roots as the same

[uncut holly]

They are a twist on White Lady, White Lady is obssessed with birth. Greyroot is obsessed with rebirth, using other creatures god and bug alike to rebirth itself and come back stronger.

[spare pendant]

I mean the colosseum looking like the cast off shell and lord fool looking like the pale king compared with the battle of blackwyrm... what other hints were we supposed to get?

[naive crag]

the white lady is also the one to give you the everbloom so maybe theres a correlation?

[spiral swift]

Bardoon not mentioning the colo might as well spell out that it's not a wyrm

[uncut holly]

Greyroot seems to be the same creature as White Lady but chooses to do things differently. Hornet even recognizes them.

[whole holly]

Nyleth is better contender for higher being, seemingly able to empower seth, and create vegetation, Just above isma and below Unn in powerscaling

[uncut holly]

Nyleth is killed, its also been suggested here they might be the same creature as Isma.

[spare pendant]

What exactly would he have to say about it?

[uncut holly]

We know Greyroot is a higher being practically.

[distant briar]

?? The colosseum isn’t even close to looking like the cast off shell it looks like the dead bugs in Far fields. Please hop on Silksong and go to sprintmaster there you can see many dead bugs like the colosseum

[spiral swift]

Well like he's the wyrm guy you think he'd mention it

[spare pendant]

Why??

[gilded beacon]

Does this implies that there can be beings of the same species as higher beings, and not share their abilities?

[uncut holly]

Eva also freaks out when you go to them with Greyroot, calling them a parasite that wont take them aswell

[spiral swift]

He also says he's too small to be a wyrm when is literally bigger than the colosseum

[uncut holly]

Greyroot has all the abilities of White Lady

[whole holly]

yea, she is not pale though, which makes you wonder if any members of species can be pale, like is Pale king only one of Pale Wyrms and other wyrms simply aren't pale?

[spiral swift]

Talking about wyrms is the one thing he does 😭 Why wouldn't he mention it if there were 2

[uncut holly]

Atleast White Lady abilities we can see

[naive crag]

maybe shes a higher being but doesnt do anything with her power because she stays dormant

[uncut holly]

Greyroot does do things though she kills Grand Mother Silk.

[modern bay]

This is on the Wiki itself, it cites the official Wanderer's Journal on page 116.

[uncut holly]

She has an entire ending related to her.

[naive crag]

by things i mean doing what other higher beings usually do eg creating life

[quick cairn]

Is she ?

[modern bay]

It looks a LOT like the other Wyrms laying about Hallownest, as well.

[gilded beacon]

So she's also a Higher Being?

[uncut holly]

Oh yeah Greyroot makes the greyroot child but doesnt make any other life. The child seems to be part of her rebirth ritual.

Yes Greyroot is a higher being shes the same as White Lady

[whole holly]

so is Radiance, GMS, and other. higher beings, they are same type of creature as isma just like Greyroot is same type of creature as White Lady, Nyleth is still exceptionally powerful compared to Isma

[distant briar]

yeah why we even arguing about this we knew it’s not a wyrm for like 6 years

[modern bay]

That's... not what I was saying at all

[uncut holly]

She kills Grand Mother Silk a higher being themself, and absorbs their power along with Hornet to root the entire Citadel. Eva is terrified of Greyroot

[distant briar]

it literally says ancient bug and not wyrm

[uncut holly]

It is very very likely that Greyroot is the same as White Lady and a Higher Being because of it

[naive crag]

and what is a wyrm

[modern bay]

Wyrms are bugs

[gilded beacon]

The child seems to be a young vessel to transfer her mind or smth, since she leaves her old body behind

[uncut holly]

I mean they straight up kill a Higher Being, and its likely that Grand Mother Silk couldnt be killed besides absorption by binding.

[quick cairn]

Like most things in Hollow Knight

[naive crag]

considering she even survived the void

[whole holly]

lack of worship may be reason for diminishing power, that may be reason she wanted her child to be Higher Being and gave Child parasite to hornet

[uncut holly]

Yeah thats part of her rebirth scheme. She seemingly has done this many many times before if they look at the basement.

[quick cairn]

When you put things like that

It makes sense she would be a higher being

[distant briar]

Guys I think Sprintmaster must be a Wyrm because he is sprinting in a big ass ancient bug ahh

[olive glen]

Wait what ending was that?

[uncut holly]

tbh Greyroot is probably the strongest being in Pharloom, they where just asleep till Hornet walked in

The Cursed Ending

[gilded beacon]

In that case? Is she even dead, or she is still alive inside Hornet in a way?

[whole holly]

maybe Child Parasite also Absorbed Hornets and GMS Power in ending

[spiral swift]

The biggest nail in the lord fool wyrm coffin is godseeker. If it was a wyrm godseeker would want it. We have known its not one for literal years

[uncut holly]

Im pretty sure shes alive in Hornet

[gilded beacon]

Kinda like Eva

[quick cairn]

Hornet absorbed Greyroot no ? Made her power her own

Basically killing her since she cannot rebirth anymore

[olive glen]

What is Eva anyway?

[whole holly]

after curing yes, which is optional

[whole holly]

weavers attempt at creating higher being

[quick cairn]

Maybe a failed attempt at making a silk life ? Something like Lace

[uncut holly]

The Cursed Ending happens if you beat Grand Mother Silk while being cursed by Greyrooy with the Crest you cant remove. Everything goes normalish until the end of the fight, before Hornet even gets the chance to Bind Grand Mother Silk, Greyroots erupt from Hornet grabing Hornet and Grand Mother Silk, and an ending plays out where you can see Hornet and Grand Mother Silk fossilized in roots, along with the whole Citadel.

[distant briar]

Weavers futile attempt to create divinity but failed. Too fragile so they hid her away

[spare pendant]

I'm pretty sure godseeker would want it anyway. It definitely qualifies more than vengefly king. Godseeker probably couldn't attune to either one.

[olive glen]

Dang

[modern bay]

Is there no way whatsoever to remove the crest once you retrieve it?

[quick cairn]

Would Eva be a Weaver then ?

[quick cairn]

There is a way

[gilded beacon]

Are there any male weavers?

[quick cairn]

That "cursed" ending is very much optional and easily skipable

[spiral swift]

Lord fool has 0 showings in combat ever btw, no reason to think this

[olive glen]

Why did they try to make one in the first place?

[whole holly]

no silk construct

[modern bay]

Okay, I want to do all the endings and missed it on my first run

[whole holly]

to replace GMS

[uncut holly]

You can if you go to Doctor Yarnaby after talking to The Hermit beneath Belhart, if you go to Yarnaby help them out she uses her machine that got her kicked out of Belhart on you, which really hurts you but subdues the parasite a bit so that you can change crests.

[spare pendant]

What, do you think he fell down the stairs?

[naive crag]

do you guys think the potential dlc will give more endings like hk?

[uncut holly]

After subduing the parasite it is described as being more chilled out.

[distant briar]

ye

[spare pendant]

Looks like he got his ass kicked lol

[spiral swift]

Do you think he died on combat on the fucking throne gng? 😭

[uncut holly]

It still there though

[olive glen]

Oh yeah how come we haven't seen a male one yet?

[spare pendant]

I doubt he died on the throne at all, he was probably kim jong un'd

[whole holly]

i still think Nyleth is Higher Being, but like others it can be killed

[uncut holly]

I mean Weavers where just the bugs ascended at the top of Pharloom from the Nameless town, theres probably definitely male weavers out there.

[olive glen]

He suffered a car crash 🥀

[distant briar]

Maybe weavers only have females and don’t really need males

[modern bay]

Female spiders eat their mates? 🤷

[gilded beacon]

Maybe that's the reason why the Weavers wanted Hornet to learn to be a weaver, they can't reproduce

[spare pendant]

some do

[naive crag]

isnt the colosseum atop kingdoms edge too?

[whole holly]

Why is greyroot obsessed with Polyp , what does it have to do with birth, does she eat them or what?

[spare pendant]

yeah

[naive crag]

they mentioned the kingdoms edge snow isnt actually snow but wyrm bone particles iirc

[modern bay]

Could also just be no male weavers as well but the first one is a fun theory

[spare pendant]

im pretty sure all of the weavers come from grandma silk

[olive glen]

Weaver mitosis theory real

[modern bay]

Or some male weavers we haven't been shown yet (or that I just don't remember)

[uncut holly]

So at the top of Pharloom above the Grand Mother Silk arena through a secret entrance you can go on a gauntlet mini segment to get to the peak of Pharloom, there you find The Nameless Town, and an environment that looks just like the outskirts. The intention is that that the environment looks suspiciously like the wasteland that was in the First Sinners cutscene.

[naive crag]

i support the idea of no male weavers existing and thats why herrah wanted to have offspring with the pale king instead

[olive glen]

I mean true but there would have to be some non-eaten weavers, right?

[spare pendant]

it's possible weavers don't need to eat/drink and can live a long time. not just because hornet can do that (she's half wyrm) but also because first sinner was literally sealed away since before the weavers fled and she was still alive when we got to her

[uncut holly]

If you read the memories of the place they talk about following a light. It is very likely that Grand Mother Silk arrived at the peak of Pharloom and ascended all bugs in the nearby area, villagers and random animal insects, and turned them in Weavers.

[modern bay]

I'm also very interested in the overworld in the Hollow Knight universe, we don't see much of it but it looks very barren

[gilded beacon]

Are there any implications of the title theme becoming "Surface" once you beat Lost Lace?

[quick cairn]

It was said that whatever remains meaning it'a there but not all of it

[olive glen]

They taste like grape soda lol

[uncut holly]

The top of the kingdom actually looks just like the Outskirts, which is suspicious

[modern bay]

Herrah didn't eat the Pale King so I'm mostly just spitballing a fun theory rather than a practical one

[spare pendant]

lmao herrah could fucking try

[gilded beacon]

That could be a big ass cave as far as we know

[craggy smelt]

I think it looks more like the blasted steps, the part where Hornet can reach the edge of the kingdom... there are pharlids there, the creatures Silk made into the Weavers
its also mentioned that the creatures on the surface are free of silk, her power only extended below them

[spare pendant]

herrah would get curbstomped so fucking fast

[bronze hemlock]

Wow. I didn't know Seth was based on an IRL person.

[modern bay]

Nah he's old that's lightwork

[bronze hemlock]

That's so sad.

[spare pendant]

gerson:

[craggy smelt]

maybe Hornet and Lace will return to Hallownest

[distant briar]

yeah you just want to know what’s out there. If you complete the hunter journal Nuu just says:” Well I got everything here onto the next kingdom, peace” kinda tragic we won’t see that for 6 years

[olive glen]

Well he's not a spider so he can probably get away with it deathless lol

[uncut holly]

I dont think the weavers where only Pharlids, I think First Sinner was a Pharlid, I dont think all Weavers are Pharlids

[spare pendant]

is nuu a snail or just a slug who likes snail shells

[gilded beacon]

Wasn't it consumed by the void or smth?

[uncut holly]

The nameless town memory describes them following a light that arrived. And it is directly above the Citadel

[modern bay]

Real as hell

[uncut holly]

It makes the most sense that that was where it started

[spare pendant]

no it's just a dead kingdom

[craggy smelt]

possibly something went down after the Embrace the Void ending, but most likely not

[gilded beacon]

Then they have less reason to even come back

[spare pendant]

yeah

[olive glen]

Not dead just mostly empty

[modern bay]

I don't think they'll revisit Hallownest

[spare pendant]

hornet will never return to hallownest

[craggy smelt]

with the Radiance gone, life can flourish again - mantis tribe still exists, mosskin and others may survive

White Lady is still there

[modern bay]

She could feel homesick 🫶

[spare pendant]

it is dead. there are colonies and people who inhabit the same space, but hallownest is a dead kingdom burdened by the regrets and dreams of its past

[gilded beacon]

Lace taunts Hornet for being the protector of a dead kingdom, Soo..

[olive glen]

True

[whole holly]

i thought mosskin died,? White Lady better step up and create new life and help Unn as well

[uncut holly]

From my understanding the Citadel is a device to put Grand Mother Silk asleep with the music made by it. The Weavers made it or retrofitted it when they turned against Grand Mother Silk to put her asleep. The Weavers then tricked the pilgrims who where probably coming from its call, into helping contain Grand Mother Silk not really knowing the full story of it, the only people who knew where the Conductors, and Architects, and Vaultkeepers.

[spare pendant]

mosskin died but unn is still alive! the dream isn't dead!

[distant briar]

she taunted her about protecting Pharloom not Hallownest

[naive crag]

i dont think white lady can even move

[craggy smelt]

the kingdom is gone, but the region can recover - there will be a future, but it belongs to someone else
Hornet proclaimed herself a daughter of Hallownest, I doubt she has no desire to return

[naive crag]

or e ven knows radiance is no more

[uncut holly]

After the events of Hollow Knight Dung Defender became King

[modern bay]

homesickc.... 🫶

[uncut holly]

I just made that up not really

[naive crag]

he wouldnt become king even if he could

[uncut holly]

I dunno a maybe a mayor?

[modern bay]

Ogrim is a beast he'd probably do what he could to help around and that's about it

[spare pendant]

I think she wants to let it die. Perhaps, she will visit the mantises or the new greenpath.

[whole holly]

Mantis Tribe still exists

[uncut holly]

If there even would be a king, it would probably be the Hollow Knight or no king at all. I think their probably sick of kings.

[spare pendant]

I know

[gilded beacon]

Maybe the White Lady does something, she's still the queen after all

[uncut holly]

Mantis Tribe can say they outlasted the kingdoms death

[spare pendant]

the hollow knight?

[modern bay]

Mantis Tribe is majorly independent of the rest of the Kingdom

[whole holly]

Kingdom is not fully dead

[uncut holly]

The one sealed in the black egg if the Godhome ending is true

[spare pendant]

mantis tribe is not part of the kingdom

they have a peace treaty

[distant briar]

I would bet everything that we first get to see the city of steel before anything else. And returning to hallownest wouldn’t really serve a purpose for making a game except maybe if ww traversed the waster between the places

[modern bay]

They have none of the same culture as the kingdom did and this on top of it

[whole holly]

they can spread to other regions, as well as Hive too if they have queen

[uncut holly]

Supposedly the Mantis Tribe is already unfathomably old even at the time of the Moths. Even after all of what happened in Hollow Knight they still lived to continue their history.

[modern bay]

(meant to tag the peace treaty)

[spare pendant]

the hive is dead lol

vespa is dead and the bees are infected

[naive crag]

to me it would be interesting if we could travel kingdoms instead of only one

[whole holly]

Infection dies, don't bees recover or all infected life dies with them?

[spare pendant]

most infected bugs are long dead

the infection puppets their corpse

[modern bay]

That would be an insane amount of work, if they could pull it off it would be cool, but I'm contempt with just one that's really huge like Pharloom is

[distant briar]

hopefully they make aomething like that- like a little caravan you can find at an edge of the map that asks you if you want to travel to Hallownest or Pharloom or the city of Steel

[spare pendant]

bees don't really live that long

[uncut holly]

The bees supposedly mostly continued as normal because the infection hivemind wasnt too different from their own.

[modern bay]

I just realized Team Cherry literally named the new kingdom Far Loom

[vivid kernel]

We know which ending of HK is cannon now don't we?

[whole holly]

mushrooms too i think

[spare pendant]

they're all canon, but only some of them lead to silksong

[naive crag]

vespa lived enough to become big as fuck

[vivid kernel]

Isn't Godhome flower confirmed to be the true ending

[uncut holly]

The Mushroom if it remember where said to have died to the infection really badly because their hive mind meant they all got group infected

[spare pendant]

vespa was an exception since queen bees are raised with crazy steroids

[vivid kernel]

Since SS True ending

[modern bay]

Something like that

[uncut holly]

Except for Mr Mushroom but hes a being of caliber on his own

[spare pendant]

there is no true ending, silksong doesn't have to happen

[uncut holly]

Mr Mushroom is known as The Great Herald in SilkSong

[vivid kernel]

The Hollow Knight just be alive somewhere...

[spare pendant]

there are some timelines where Hornet dies and that's all canon too

[uncut holly]

Or thats what Hornet calls him

[vivid kernel]

Chillin

[whole holly]

Mushroom Higher Being too probably

[gilded beacon]

This makes me realize that The Hive could make a new queen if they wanted

[uncut holly]

We also know that the giant yeti snow moth at the top of Fae Peak is Mr Mushrooms associate.

[whole holly]

do we know it's name?

[uncut holly]

I dunno maybe their both really old long lived beings

[spare pendant]

if any bees were still alive, then yeah probably. they can't breed without a queen though so every bee is probably dead once the infection ends

[distant briar]

they just talked

[uncut holly]

Nope, but its a snow moth yeti (I spread lies)

[distant briar]

called Faylon

[naive crag]

what an awful existence

[whole holly]

but sometimes hives have other queen bee contenteds, they basically have plan for if queen bee dies

[vivid kernel]

He just chillin....he's infection free because of Godhome ending which leads to skong

[gilded beacon]

If there are some left they could feed a larvae with royal jelly and make a new queen

[naive crag]

yeah but hes a vessel whats the meaning of his life now anyways

[whole holly]

is Faylon special , or higher being?

[spare pendant]

you're missing the part where they don't have to deal with an Eldritch God puppeteering their corpses

[uncut holly]

It kind of shows how long Hornet lived with us seeing Vespa when she was still normal size, knowing that in the events of Hollow Knight the bees didnt flee the infection because their queen grew too huge to leave, and then died of old age.

[distant briar]

No idea what Faylon is

[modern bay]

Wandering the world being badass and stuff

[uncut holly]

I think Faylons a yeti

Their a cryptid

[spare pendant]

Faylon is a random creature, nothing implies they're a higher being except that they're believed to have a lot of wisdom and power

[uncut holly]

Well they are a notorious creature, the Weavers talk of them

They say that Faylon can give great insight, or kill you

[whole holly]

higher being is not well defined either, so lot of wisdom and power goes hand in hand for what most higher beings are

[spare pendant]

by that logic ogrim is a higher being lol

old, wise and powerful

[uncut holly]

I dont think their a higher being, they are a moth though which could mean something, but their a yeti moth

[spare pendant]

It is very possible but it's not established

[whole holly]

they aren't just wise and powerful, unlike ogrim

[uncut holly]

I mean they have the moth eyes, and it seems to be what their based on

[whole holly]

what even is higher being anymore?

[spare pendant]

i meant the higher being part

[uncut holly]

oh. I think theres only 2 higher beings in Pharloom, Grand Mother Silk, and Greyroot. Eva could be a higher being but they where too fragile.

[whole holly]

guys has anyone tried this with polyp pouch? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s_pumI-nrM&t=132s

[whole holly]

is Greyroot confirmed?

[uncut holly]

Greyroot is ever said, but it is very likely looking at what they do and their characteristics

They seem to be the same creature as White Lady

[spare pendant]

We still don't know. Higher being is a caste of bugs that may have no natural basis and is just applied by the people themselves. However, higher beings are typically capable of creating life and tend to be the source of which unique life originates. GMS created weavers, radiance created moths, white lady created vessels, pale king gave will to mindless bugs, unn created greenpath, etc

[uncut holly]

Higher Being is probably a status

[spiral swift]

Grandmother Hornet is almost definetly one and Nyleth has arguments I think

[drifting apex]

just beat widow i just wanna know is widow possibly a weaver?

[spare pendant]

She is one

her mask was removed and her silk was bound within her body

[whole holly]

Nyleth also empowered seth and created unique life, she is stronger contender than greyroot i think

[drifting apex]

so all weavers have this big round mask?

[uncut holly]

Thing is with Nyleth is it would make sense, but you kill them. And usually you wouldnt be able to kill a Higher Being like a normal creature, the various beings like Queen Karmelita, The Green Dancer, and Crust King Khan are described as gods I believe by the Snail Shamans.

[spare pendant]

not hornet or herrah

[uncut holly]

But thats more likely the godhome definition of god

[spiral swift]

I mean GMS was killed

[whole holly]

but we kill GMS

[uncut holly]

I think GMS was only able to be killed by hornets bind absorption

[spare pendant]

radiance and nightmare heart are also killed

[spiral swift]

I didn't get the curse ending but doesn't it also kill GMS?

[uncut holly]

Any Weaver could have killed them, but I dont think they can be killed any other way. Because otherwise if Hornet wanted to not take over for GMS she could have just killed them.

[spiral swift]

Rad is an exception and the nightmare heart doesn't die

[spare pendant]

greyroot kills gms

[whole holly]

when is Nightmare Heart died?

[uncut holly]

Yeah but Greyroots a higher being likely

[hazy carbon]

pretty sure the shamans didn't even know about the green prince

[spare pendant]

nightmare heart dies if the ritual isn't perpetuated, i.e in banishment

[naive crag]

is hornet at the end of silksong as strong as sentinel hornet?

[uncut holly]

Nightmare Heart doesnt die

[spiral swift]

1. That's not being killed
2. It's not an instant death

[whole holly]

Pale King died from grief as well

[uncut holly]

It leaves to find another kingdom but it never dies.

Pale King we have no idea, the Godseekers are even baffled by it

[spare pendant]

If I tie you up and throw you in the ocean is that not murder

[spiral swift]

Saying "killed" implies being killed with an attack though

[uncut holly]

Nightmare Heart doesnt die no matter what you do with the Grimm Troupe, they waited many years to find a kingdom that met the requirements and had dream entering capability

[spiral swift]

Which is what we are talking about

[gilded beacon]

Maybe since Nyleth IS the forest she is still alive in a sense?

[whole holly]

i meah, we basically witnessed fact that Higher Beings can die, Radiance, Pale King, GMS

[uncut holly]

She says in the death message that the forest will die without her

[gaunt flint]

If PK is based off a Wyrm, what sort of mythical creature Grand Mother Silk based on?

[spare pendant]

sure, the attack of killing somebody

[spare pendant]

gms is based on spiders

[uncut holly]

I think Grand Mother Silk is meant to be the symbol of Pharloom

[whole holly]

Higher Beings can die to so Nyleth dying doesn't really disqualify her

[uncut holly]

Yeah but Higher Beings cant die easily

[spare pendant]

hornet is a pale being, it's not easy

[hazy carbon]

honestly can't help but laugh whenever i read her full legal name "grandma silk 👵 " 😭 god mother silk was right there

[uncut holly]

Like the Radiance, the Radiance could be killed and its likely that the only way the Radiance could have died is the way it died in game, being stuck in a hollow vessel with the void.

[neon flax]

How do we know they can't die "easily", perhaps all the ones we've seen killed have been strong among higher beings

[uncut holly]

Which is also why you cant really kill the Nightmare Heart I believe

[open dragon]

After Silksong's true ending...do you think Hornet would stay a good while in Pharloom because of what happened?

[spiral swift]

Being fully forgotten also would've killed it iirc

[naive crag]

she doesnt say that tho

[open dragon]

You think Lace and Hornet share the bell house at Bellhart, asking for a friend lol

[whole holly]

you would have to define dying easily? Pale King died from seemingly nothing

[hazy carbon]

yes

[uncut holly]

We know that the Radiance didnt need worship they just wanted worship, they invaded peoples minds who didnt even know she existed. I think Nightmare Heart probably just feeds on the embers and the ritual but it wouldnt kill it.

[open dragon]

Imagine Grimm troupe 2 in Silksong lol

[uncut holly]

Its possible Pale King died from Void, but we really dont know its kind of supposed to be a mystery. Pale King definitely was not killed by normal means

[spare pendant]

Radiance and the Nightmare Heart both die when nobody is left to perpetuate them, either through ritual or through memory

[whole holly]

she got weaker without worship, her strength comes from being remembered

[hazy carbon]

||also lacenet or shakra/hornet?||

[naive crag]

lace has the body and mind of a child

[spare pendant]

lace is too childlike

[uncut holly]

I mean she invaded the minds of people who didnt even know about her, and the minds of things that werent even her own creations

[hazy carbon]

true.

[whole holly]

how do you know that, we have no information

[uncut holly]

I think she would have died, no matter how little worship she got

[hazy carbon]

fr

[uncut holly]

Theres void maybe particles in the throne room

[spare pendant]

pale king is implied to be possibly alive

"What is death for such a creature, but rebirth" abridged from bardoon

[hazy carbon]

pale king also didn't perish of old age either

[open dragon]

Hornet, Shakra and Lace polycule

[uncut holly]

We know Hornet is immortal so Pale King is also immortal

[naive crag]

the throne room has sort of a void ambient

but nothing confirmed

[hazy carbon]

fire

[open dragon]

How long has Hornet lived for again? I know she has a very long lifespan

[uncut holly]

Hornet has been alive a really long time

[spare pendant]

Well, no. Hornet is immortal because weavers are established to be immortal. It might also be because of PK but not necessarily.

[whole holly]

but you still would have to prove that his death was difficult, hornet is demigod so killing nyleth doesn't mean she died easily

[uncut holly]

Yeah but its very likely that the Pale King is immortal

Herrah was a "common bug" compared to the king

[spare pendant]

Yeah but for other reasons, bardoon says so

[uncut holly]

Its very likely that Pale King is immortal

Hes a god

[spare pendant]

Bardoon implies wyrms can keep dying and rebirthing

[uncut holly]

He shined a light that hurt people who look at him

[fathom remnant]

Hi frens, do you know if Hornet is the only one left who can fully control the silk?
The widow seemed to control it pretty well but was also said to have been "infected" by it if I understood correctly

[humble iron]

It makes sense since they can only exist in the dream realm

[open dragon]

Apparently a long time for even to have a mate, probably several

[spark valve]

she is not the only one left, and widow isn't controlled

[gilded beacon]

I'm pretty sure that he either faked his death to hide or just reincarnated again

[open dragon]

I like to think Hornet is Bi lol

[neon flax]

first sinner is technically still alive, but indefinitely imprisoned until hornet kills them

[spare pendant]

The widow was controlling the grand mother's silk. She's not haunted, just a fanatic. The first sinner and grand mother can also control silk, and there are presumably some living weavers.

[neon flax]

But there's also a living weaver in hk right

[spare pendant]

Yea

[naive crag]

shes too old to not have experimented imo

what could you possibly do with all that time

[uncut holly]

I dont think this is true, I think they would still be around either way. Or if that was the case maybe the Nightmare Heart would lose all ties with the real world. But the Radiance is notoriously unkillable and can still come back with immense power

[fathom remnant]

Ah, but there was a dialogue between Hornet and Shakra about her where Hornet mentions the widow being punished somehow by the silk?

[pulsar fern]

bi herself

[uncut holly]

If the Radiances power was linked to worship, how would they have enough power to invade the minds of everyone

[spare pendant]

Her own silk was binded in her shell.

[spark valve]

in reference to the pins in her shell and her head being deformed

[spare pendant]

The infection took a long time.

[fathom remnant]

The widow's silk?

[neon flax]

small groups of cultists -> infect a few -> infect many

[spare pendant]

Yeah

[gilded beacon]

Wdym? That's canon 💯

[hazy carbon]

that her silk is bound inside her shell?

[humble iron]

Or he killed himself. I don't see how else he could die

[open dragon]

Herrah and the Pale King really got busy in the bed cuz Hornet is very overpowered lol

[uncut holly]

I mean it does seem very hard to kill a being like the Radiance if only the statue kept them alive atop of Hallownest

[open dragon]

Is Hornet classified as a god or just a demigod?

[spark valve]

she's not a god

[fathom remnant]

I was wondering why the widow wasn't kidnapped instead of Hornet and got to thinking about this

[spare pendant]

I mean yeah she's the descendent of two higher beings (not herrah)

[gilded beacon]

Why tho? He doesn't seem like the suicidal type of king y'know?

[spark valve]

if her silk wasn't rendered useless they probably both would have been captured

[uncut holly]

I think Widow was the music maker for the Weavers, you get the ability to play music from them and their memories show Weavers playing harps

Maybe Widow had something to do with the waking

[fathom remnant]

What makes it useless tho?

[humble iron]

Because his whole life work crumbled and he feels crushing guilt about killing a bunch of kids for nothing? Idk

[spark valve]

those pins embedded in her shell

[open dragon]

I sat up on my sit seeing the whole Red Memory sequence

[naive crag]

is trobbio relevant to anything or is he comic relief only

[spark valve]

Her body seemed a Weaver's, but her mask had been forcibly removed, and her own Silk was bound useless by heavy pins lodged through her spine.

[open dragon]

Seeing all of the old hollow knight stuff made me cry lmao

[naive crag]

sameee i almost cry

[neon flax]

red memory and true ending gave me such chills

this game's world is so perfect

[gilded beacon]

I just think that he would rather hide forever than death, even if killed himself, wouldn't he just reincarnate again?

[spiral swift]

Shadow creepers genuinely had me squealing

[open dragon]

Babey Hornet 💙

[naive crag]

the white ladys voice is so familiar

[fathom remnant]

Idk why but meeting Eva felt so powerful, it reminded me of the old H.K

[naive crag]

and she couldnt even remember herrahs face it was the most blurry out of the 3

[open dragon]

Seeing them without the orange eyes feel so odd tho lol

[humble iron]

How else do you suppose he died?

[spark valve]

no

[open dragon]

Ohhh noooo i didnt notice that detail 😭

[humble iron]

Also reincarnation is prob something he has control over

[spare pendant]

he probably died of old age, since wyrms are a cyclical species

[whole holly]

yeah, void and infection in one bug?

[gilded beacon]

That's the thing, I think he isn't dead, he faked his death

[uncut holly]

I really dont think that dream entities like the Radiance or Nightmare Heart could have been killed in any other way than the Void

[spark valve]

he's dead

[spare pendant]

he didn't fake his death, he just died and rebirthed

[humble iron]

Bro his servants are still and you think he died of old age

[spark valve]

he didn't get reborn he just died

[open dragon]

the Hollow Knight screeching inside the Black Egg temple

[spark valve]

wyrms do metamorphosis as part of their life cycle they can't infinitely resurrect

[gilded beacon]

That was the option number 2

[humble iron]

Wouldn't be surprised if that's true for all higher beings

[naive crag]

gms resisted the void tho sort of

[neon flax]

I think I could beat unn in a fist fight

[stoic heath]

I realized that “The Knight is the truely hollow knight” people are in shambles after the True Ending

[naive crag]

also gms was killed by the witch curse

[spare pendant]

He's a lot older, and probably has control over when he reaches the end of his cycle.

[spark valve]

those people have been in shambles since the first game came out

[uncut holly]

I think if you hit unn, your nail would bounce off of them and they would make a sound

[humble iron]

Bro unn would manifest a steel chair and beat you up with it

[neon flax]

damn

nothing I can do about that

[spare pendant]

Bardoon implies death IS how they trigger metamorphosis

[whole holly]

yea, Hollow Knight should have been locked into Abyss and it would have been more effective, because Void would actively influence Hollow Knight and maybe allowed HK to defeat infection

[spark valve]

no, he discusses the metamorphosis as death in the context of explicitly talking about the big forms

[stoic heath]

P5 Nosk kinda forshadowed Silksong True Ending cuz Nosk was able to pull out memories of Hornet from them showing the Knight cares about her

[open dragon]

The last thing we need rn is the Radiance overtaking all of the void rn :')

[uncut holly]

I think it was stated what the Wyrm "died" and then was reborn as the Pale King. That could just be saying that it died and the egg inside it hatched into Pale King who was himself

[spark valve]

that is what it's saying yes

[uncut holly]

He definitely didnt lose any power when doing it though

[humble iron]

Bardoon might interpret the metamorphosis as death

[spare pendant]

He never says anything like that. He's talking about wyrms as a whole

[spark valve]

he's not

[spare pendant]

You're just wrong idk

[humble iron]

You're making assumptions lol

[spare pendant]

"He's dead" is an assumption, and one with less backing

[spark valve]

read his actual dialogue

[spare pendant]

His dialogue is fresh in my mind

[spark valve]

it's not godseeker states that pk was 'erased completely'

[dry heart]

so uhm... hornet genuinely has blood? i didnt know there was blood in this game?

[stoic heath]

So from what I understand the Act 3 void infection happens because the Void gains access to Grandma Silk’s strings, and is undone when her strings are undone or whatever?

[spark valve]

most things have blood

[neon flax]

hoker #3 in far fields is the strongest higher being

but can be killed by needle

[wintry flame]

unn is. getting their shit kicked in sorry i can literally carry kosher salt with me and win

[uncut holly]

Pale Kings foresight must have been pretty garbage

[humble iron]

There's a corpse and as far as I am aware there wasn't a tiny egg in the body from which another wyrm energed

[naive crag]

do you think this is about pk

[stoic heath]

Def

[spark valve]

it's about every god

[uncut holly]

yeah but this is god not Higher Being

[wintry flame]

yes hornet loves roasting her dad

[spare pendant]

We literally weren't there to see what happened when the pale king died. All we see is a body.

[wintry flame]

but it can be applied in general

[neon flax]

pale king more like frail king

[stoic heath]

Hornet calls the Pale King an idiot in one of the Journal Entries

[open dragon]

I may have missed a few lore tablets but have we gotten a concrete idea of who and what Grandmother Silk is?

[wintry flame]

really the fuck??

[stoic heath]

mossbag was wrong

[stoic heath]

Something like that

[open dragon]

Yeah she is the source of Silk, mother of Lace aaand thats all i know

[neon flax]

made weavers in the same way radiance made moths

[spare pendant]

PK is an idiot lol

[uncut holly]

Even then i have to guess a majority of people who call themself a god cant match the title. Very few can, and GMS probably could. They just died because their children just to happen to have the ability to absorb each other and themself

[wintry flame]

also mother of phantom

[humble iron]

Not necessarily, I think his foresight always showed him losing to the infection, it didn't give him a guide on how to stop it

[uncut holly]

Hornet goes around the entire game absorbing the power of dead Weavers, and eventually GMS

[naive crag]

created the wavers because she wanted daughters but they turned on her and fleed

[dry heart]

and radiance

[spare pendant]

Every higher being who has died, died because of their own people.

Except nyleth

[open dragon]

Yeah cuz after fighting First Sinner, she was a Phalid before and then Silk turns her into the first Weaver

[spark valve]

the point of the first game is that the fall of hallownest was unavoidable, foreseeing a problem you have no way to solve is not helpful

[humble iron]

Yup

[stoic heath]

So the void infection happens because it gains access to GMS’s strings right? And in the True Ending her strings are cut or whatever?

[spark valve]

yes basically

[uncut holly]

I used to think Nyleth was a higher being, but the fact you can kill them just doesnt make sense. They arent directly called a higher being, but they where worshiped and where clearly old, they also made a location and potentially started the plant growth in all of Pharloom. But they dont seem of the same stature as a Higher Being

[naive crag]

in the true ending she lets go of her strings

[spark valve]

nyleth is probably not a higher being

[naive crag]

she was holding onto life because lace was with her

[humble iron]

Nyleth is most definitely nit a higher being

[neon flax]

yeah it does seem the void is making use of GMS holding on

void seems opportunistic in general

[uncut holly]

Yeah this was why I thought that Radiance couldnt die any other way

[spare pendant]

Every single factor points to them being a higher being except the fact that they died easier than the others

[stoic heath]

So GMS is the Weaver creator?

[open dragon]

If i had a nickle everytime Hollow Knight games send down a Goddess of Light down to the void, i'd have 2 nickles

[spark valve]

gms created the weavers yes

[whole holly]

Nyleth may be higher being because they have divine power t empower seth, and they created Vegetation that is definetly equal to Greenpath in terms of scale and above isma's grove

[open dragon]

Which isnt alot but its weird it happen twice in a row now...

[uncut holly]

I think GMS would probably classify as a god of soul. And they turn soul to silk.

[neon flax]

imagine if we had to fight the radiance down in the void, I'd be getting r5 flashbacks

[stoic heath]

So the conflict of the game is she kinda went fascistic and force everyone to be strung?

[humble iron]

How else do you even kill a higher being

[spark valve]

it's not even close to the scale of what unn created and isma's more recent and will probably eventually reach that level

[open dragon]

Pull a Kratos

[spare pendant]

Depends on the being

[uncut holly]

not all higher beings are the same

[neon flax]

hit it enough times with a nail/needle

[spare pendant]

Higher being is such a broad and vague term

[open dragon]

How many higher beings do we have now?

[sleek lily]

So what is the TLDR of the story? GMS took over Pharloom and slowly started controlling the bugs until it was too far? While she also created weavers and these flee.

[uncut holly]

The knights couldnt have fought against the Radiance, Ogrim even says so

[neon flax]

2

[stoic heath]

Anyone notice the thing on GMS’s head looks similar to Radiance’s legs or whatever they are

[humble iron]

Which one died like that according to you ?

[neon flax]

needles

[whole holly]

i mean greenpath , not everything unn created, but Isma will eventually reach that level needs evidence

[uncut holly]

I dont even think the Moths could have killed the Radiance

[spare pendant]

Depends on how pedantic you want to be

[neon flax]

I never said any died like that

[spark valve]

gms and lord of shades in an ending

[spark valve]

isma is the same type of creature as nyleth their abilities are presumably identical

[stoic heath]

So some Weavers turned against GMS when she went too fascistic?

[spark valve]

and comparing to just a fraction of unn's power is goofy

[humble iron]

Lord of shades is not a higher being in the same sense as the others imo

[uncut holly]

Entire universe Higher Beings: Pale King, White Lady, Unn, Nightmare Heart, Radiance, Grand Mother Silk, Greyroot, (Maybe Nyleth)

[spark valve]

greyroot is also nota higher being

[whole holly]

but that doesn't guarantee they are identical in terms of their abilities, compare Greyroot and White Lady they are same species as well

[spark valve]

they aren't

[uncut holly]

Greyroot is very likely a higher being

[humble iron]

Never nyleth nor grayroot

[uncut holly]

they arent said to be one directly

[open dragon]

Greyroot is a higher being right?

[stoic heath]

So do you people think Hornet’s silk generated out of soul?

[humble iron]

How shitty is the higher being then

[spark valve]

no

[humble iron]

Just like GMS, yes

[uncut holly]

Greyroot is the same type of creature as White Lady, White Lady is a higher being. Grey Root kills GMS, and seems to be a spin on White Lady but darker.

[sleek lily]

Does anyone know what the Old Penitent's sin was?

[uncut holly]

Greyroot is very likely a higher being in all ways but directly said.

[spark valve]

greyroot isn't the same creature as white lady, there might be a vague relation but they're way more different than they are similar

[stoic heath]

Why did GMS become evil?

[open dragon]

Okay i think Grandmother Silk is growing on me, didnt like her cuz we already got like a Light Goddess with the Radiance but she's cool

[humble iron]

White lady could be an evolved version of greyroot's kind but greyroot aren't a higher being

[uncut holly]

They look the same, they talk the same, they have the same genral powers. And they are a spin on the birth obsession

[whole holly]

Greyroot is less of contender than Nyleth, them killing GMS might have been disease tapping into hornets abilities

[spark valve]

they super don't though

[naive crag]

i like her more than radiance design wise

[humble iron]

Same reason as most higher being it's in their nature

[spare pendant]

Explicit higher beings are:

• Unn
• Pale King
• White Lady
• Grand Mother Silk
• Radiance
• Nightmare Heart
• Great Herald
• Void Entity
• Spider Queen Hornet
  Some possible higher beings are:
• Abyss Creature / Plasmium
• Blackwyrm
• Greyroot
• Nyleth
• Vespa
• Regular Hornet
  Ik I missed some

[whole holly]

they are both Roots, members of same species can be different as well

[open dragon]

Oh yeah, like is she even a bug???

[uncut holly]

Greyroot is very likely the same type of root creature as White Lady. In the same way that we know there are multiple Wyrms who are all presumeably god like figures. We can also assume that Roots are also in a similar way.

[stoic heath]

I don’t think so?

[uncut holly]

Nothing ever tells us the other Wyrms are higher beings but we can infer

[whole holly]

Great Herald?

[spare pendant]

mr mushroom

[open dragon]

Watch as Hollow Knight 3 rolls by and give us Blackroot lol

[humble iron]

This list is so wrong lol

[spare pendant]

Cry

[spark valve]

greyroot has a super distinct style of talking that's not remotely like wl's

[naive crag]

isnt she a spider?

[stoic heath]

I think Blackwyrm is the name of some gang or location

[uncut holly]

They both have pauses, they both cant see well. They both are obsessed with birth

[spark valve]

and if wl and greyroot were meant to be the same type of being hornet would probably mention it

[whole holly]

oh, reason it is weird to me is that Mushroom already have their higher being

[humble iron]

They do form the same type of cocoons

[spare pendant]

It's unclear, which is why it's possible and not explicit

[spark valve]

they don't

[humble iron]

Yh

[spark valve]

greyroot's house and wl's hideaway are very different

[uncut holly]

Grey Root seems to be a deliberate twist on White Lady, and they show enough power to kill Grand Mother Silk

[whole holly]

members of same species can be different

[uncut holly]

Their houses dont matter

[spare pendant]

Blackwyrm is either a wyrm (and therefore a higher being) or literally anything else and just has the name to sound cool

So it's just possible

[whole holly]

they are both stated to be roots

[spark valve]

ok so all the things you claimed were similar actually aren't but no they're the same because trust me bro

[spare pendant]

tammo what is ts argument

"they're fundamentally different because of their houses and dialects"

[whole holly]

what did i claim was similar and actually isn't?

[spark valve]

I'm responding to claims about those dialects and houses being similar

[spare pendant]

they're different characters not different species 😭

[spark valve]

fuckin
read

[spark valve]

nothing remotely indicates they're the same species

[uncut holly]

I do think that all Wyrms and Roots are atleast some level of Higher Being. Higher Being is a status held not a physical creature, but all of a general race of creature are likely to share the power level that would merit being a higher being, but there can also be higher beings that arent part of a race of creatures.

[stoic heath]

Hunter’s Journal for Conch bosses confirms Hornet has had romantic partners before… I wonder if Hornet has kids out there somewhere

[whole holly]

they are both explicitly categorized as roots

[humble iron]

Is it confirmed that all wyrms are higher beings? Or is PK an exception

[spare pendant]

they're both Roots which is the most specific categorization we have for them

[neon flax]

maybe pk is the higher being which created wyrms

[uncut holly]

I believe because they are both roots they are likely both higher beings, and we see the power to back it up.

[spare pendant]

I... think so? I can't actually say for sure

[neon flax]

or maybe there's a higher higher being

[quartz flicker]

Based on what we know about the lore, what do you predict is the ambitious plans that Team Cherry has?
Somehow I doubt it's just another Godhome.

[spark valve]

they're both some sort of plant being sure that doesn't make them immediately the same species

[humble iron]

Root is probably as specific as bug in this world

[uncut holly]

They have many physical similarities

[neon flax]

if it was I'd be happy, if it's not I'll be delighted

[spark valve]

they don't

[uncut holly]

Look at them look at their eyes

[whole holly]

they are both stated to be roots, so explain that, why call them same thing

[neon flax]

but also there's probably gonna be an area above wormways

[spark valve]

they have one similarity

[spark valve]

they're both plant entities

[stoic heath]

Steel Assassin Sharpe appears in a DLC only to be crushed Tiso style

[uncut holly]

I think Hornet even mentions. "I am a bug, but you are not." elluding to the fact that she knows their a root.

[spark valve]

plain observation tells that they aren't a bug

[uncut holly]

Root is the only thing we know that matches up with them

[humble iron]

It just means they're a plant lmao

[spark valve]

that's not something that's hard to glean

[spare pendant]

we have only seen two specimens of this category, and they were referred to with only that same category.

[whole holly]

not really, Vessels are born of Wyrm and Root, why doesn't it say bug and root in game then?

[uncut holly]

They arent a moss creature, all of the stick bugs are just imitators.

We only know of Roots. So sense would dictate they are a Root, like White Lady, they also look like White Lady and share the eyes.

[stoic heath]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Pharloom Grimm Troupe DLC came

[uncut holly]

They share the eyes, they only dont share the color thats it.

[whole holly]

not really, Vessels are born of Wyrm and Root, why would game specify one species not other?

[spark valve]

you need glasses badly

[uncut holly]

Everything else Greyroot has. Look at them you need glasses.

[spark valve]

no, she doesn't

[uncut holly]

Look at their eye shine and look at White Lady

[humble iron]

Nuu is a slug like Unn, they are a higher being

[stoic heath]

DLC where Grimm Troupe comes to Pharloom and we fight Grimmchild

[uncut holly]

They both share the same eye type

[spark valve]

the eye shine is the only thing they have

[uncut holly]

They are roots

[spark valve]

salubra is explicitly a slug

[uncut holly]

They are just different colors

[spark valve]

💀

[spare pendant]

What is this a counterargument to lol

[humble iron]

She's also a higher being according to jeep

[spark valve]

apparently

[uncut holly]

They are roots that are deliberately given the same eyes. And both have relations with birth, what is so hard for you to understand

They are clearly meant to be the same creature

[whole holly]

i am pretty sure WL was same size as Greyroot she just grew

[humble iron]

Just because 2 individuals are similar doesn't mean they're both higher beings

[spark valve]

they're both plant beings, their reproduction methods are entirely different, they look nothing alike

[uncut holly]

They are smaller yeah, but that could just be variation in how they look, maybe they arent on White Lady level but they are still the same creature and are likely some level of higher being

[quartz flicker]

Okak but ACTUALLY, Wisp Thicket is absurdly sus. It'a such a unique area but also so small.

[uncut holly]

They do look alike use your eyes and look at them

[spare pendant]

except that greyroot is clearly powerful enough to kill a higher being and shares the same powers as WL

[stoic heath]

We need more Fire lore

[uncut holly]

White Lady was obbsessed with birth Greyroot is obbsessed with a different type of birth, they kill GMS

[spark valve]

people keep saying they share powers does not make it true

[whole holly]

they aren't plant beings like Nyleth and Isma, Roots is specific categorization than Wyrm

[uncut holly]

You gave a picture that didnt show eyes, why you did this i dont know

[spark valve]

because it shows wl's whole body shape

[paper lynx]

Roots are probably as specific as bug. So while yes they are both roots they are different species

[uncut holly]

Yes but show their face

[humble iron]

The esplicitly weakest higher being has created a whole kingdom out of her mind. The parasite used hornets strength

[spark valve]

and how it's
nothing the fuck like greyroot

[uncut holly]

White Lady is bigger than, Greyroot maybe unless their entire house and root is their body

[spark valve]

and oh would you look at that the faces don't look anything alike either

[spare pendant]

Then why does it say vessels are born of wyrm (specific term) and root (nonspecific term)?

[uncut holly]

Yes they look similar, their different but they have the same eyes. They are definitely related

They have the same associations with birth, and are clearly a twist on each other

[spark valve]

that doesn't make them the same species

[stoic heath]

Anyone else found the reveal that Herrah was a Weaver weird?

[paper lynx]

There could also be other species of wyrm. We only know of 1 maybe 2

[spark valve]

greyroot can be an allusion to wl without actually being the same species

[whole holly]

they are both specified as Roots

[uncut holly]

Maybe they could be a different species but their definitely related. And we see Greyroot kill GMS, its likely they are on some status of higher being level

[stoic heath]

I thought it said she was poor or somethin

[uncut holly]

Where on that spectrum unknown but they could kill a confirmed Higher Being

That probably places them somewhere

[spare pendant]

That's a major conjecture

[spark valve]

kills gms after hornet beats her into submission and piggybacking off of hornet's power, and killing a god doesn't necessarily take being a god yourself

[uncut holly]

I dont think GMS could die normally outside of being binded.

[stoic heath]

I wonder what happened to the living weaver we saw leave the Weaver Nest in HK

[uncut holly]

If they could why would Hornet be forced to get help from Shamans

[stoic heath]

Imagine Zote DLC

[whole holly]

but greyroot actually had access to hornets powers

[spare pendant]

If it's between "wyrm and root are both general terms" and "root is a specific term" the latter requires less assumptions

[uncut holly]

Greyroot didnt bind them though

They tangled them and then something happened to calcify them

If it was binding they would probably disappear just like the weavers we bind

[stoic heath]

So is Hornet now the only Weaver left or something? Are there more out there in far places?

[spark valve]

it interrupts hornet binding her

[spare pendant]

there's probably more, we don't know

[uncut holly]

I dont think Hornet ever gets to bind them in the cutscene

It stops them before they even do it

[whole holly]

Wyrm and Root are equally specific, but i believe White Lady and pale King are exeptional examples of both since they are pale beings

[whole holly]

incredebly simiral eyes

[spark valve]

bruh

[uncut holly]

We dont know what Pale Beings are it might be a type of Higher Being

[wary plover]

If hornet was being taken to the citadel from the start, and she had to climb to regain her power, but her power was lost from the fall, she could have just let herself be taken and fought the big bad there...

[spare pendant]

Hornet is also counted as one of the pale beings

[spark valve]

I know the eyes are similar that's the only part that is and it's not sufficient to definitively state that they are the same species

[stoic heath]

So did the Vespa name Hornet? Did Hornet name herself? That would be awesome

[uncut holly]

They do have similar eyes, and I think it was deliberate. They are both roots. They may not be the exact same, like one could be a pale being the other not. But they both are roots.

[whole holly]

they are both stated to be Roots though

[uncut holly]

And we see the power Greyroot shows to back up them being some level of Higher Being

[spark valve]

they are both some kind of root reature yes but they look act and are very different

[wary plover]

OMG thats why she's called hornet because she was a descendent of hive steel

[uncut holly]

They act different yeah, they look very similar aside form color and size

[whole holly]

White Ladys children also look nothing like her

[spark valve]

it doesn't show any power that puts them on that level

[wary plover]

White lady had children?

[uncut holly]

White Lady is more of a tree, Greyroot is a tangle in the ground

I mean Greyroot kills GMS. Who is a Pale Being

[spare pendant]

it is her only defining characteristic

[uncut holly]

That is the power that puts them on that level.

[spark valve]

and?

[wary plover]

Don't tell me it's those enemies in queens gardens

[spare pendant]

the vessels lol

[spark valve]

any being capable of binding could kill gms hornet isn't a higher being and she's able to do it, she only becomes one after that becausae she steals its power (which the bud may be doing something similar to)

[wary plover]

The vessels were children of pale king and abyss no?

[spark valve]

the bud probably has a POTENTIAL TO BE a higher being with the right host but that doesn't mean greyroot is one whatsoever

[stoic heath]

Imagine being called “the gendered child” growing up

[whole holly]

they are same species, Roots is Species just like Wyrm

[uncut holly]

If Higher Being is a status, and GMS is a higher being. And Greyroot kills GMS with very little struggle and Hornet, that would probably make them a Higher Being. Now Hornet and the Knight get away with killing higher beings because they have special conditions to doing so, being binding, and the void.

[spare pendant]

pale king did not fuck the void

[wary plover]

wtf does gendered child even mean

[uncut holly]

The implication is that they are meant to be related to White Lady.

[spark valve]

it doesn't kill her with very little struggle

[spare pendant]

She was the only child of the pale king to have gender

[uncut holly]

I mean it doesnt bind her

[spark valve]

it kills gms
after hornet has beaten her to the verge of death

[stoic heath]

The vessels have no gender cuz void

[uncut holly]

It roots the entire place. The whole thing that Greyroot does is it takes the power of hosts to rebirth

[wary plover]

The knight isn't his brother?

[spark valve]

yes you're almost there

[uncut holly]

And it kills GMS presumeably taking theirs aswell

[spare pendant]

The knight is her sibling, not brother

That's why the shade enemies are siblings

[uncut holly]

Greyroot is a Root like White Lady and is a higher being we see it kill one you dolt.

[spark valve]

greyroot's spawn probably have the potential to be gods if they can grab a god as a host, that doesn't make her a god

[stoic heath]

The vessels are all agender and sexless

[spark valve]

that doesn't make something a god!

[uncut holly]

Ok that is possible

Maybe they take the power of gods to become gods

[spare pendant]

we still don't actually know what makes something a god

[uncut holly]

But they are the same type of creature as White Lady

[wary plover]

Weird question what exactly happens in the cursed ending in simple terms

[spark valve]

maybe wl is the spawn of something like greyroot who did grab a proper god, who knows, that's very possible

[whole holly]

maybe not higher being, considering we don't have concrete definition of higher being unless game states something to be higher being, it isn't

[spark valve]

but greyroot and wl themselves seem to be on pretty different levels

I've never said there's no relation whatsoever

[icy mirage]

so i'm assuming ||Sisters of the Void|| is probably the 'true' ending?

[stoic heath]

Yes

[uncut holly]

Higher Beings are seemingly god like beings. We know through implication that all Wyrms are probably higher beings. And we know there are likely more than 1 root like creature as we are able to see something related to White Lady

[spare pendant]

there is none

[uncut holly]

And I believe that Roots are in the same category of all being immensely powerful as Wyrms. Eva is also aware of how powerful Greyroot is.

[spark valve]

but that something doesn't exhibit any powers in line with that attribute, though it does suggest it's capable of under the right conditions creating spawn that is

[whole holly]

they don't have enough common defining characteristics to compare other characters to evaluate them based on that

[uncut holly]

Greyroot already had power though. They could rebirth through GMS, without the use of binding or any other method to kill GMS. And if GMS was easy to kill they would have done it already.

[spark valve]

if anything the best way to account for shit is something like greyroot somewhere getting ahold of a pale being somehow and wl being the product of that

[spark valve]

it needed an incredibly competent host and that wasn't greyroot's plan, she basically just lucked out that hornet happened to bring the bud to gms and weaken gms enough for it to snag her

[wary plover]

Why is gms even so weak anyway

[spare pendant]

You can't exactly distinguish "it parasitized a higher being" from "it is a higher being". if it can do that, it's definitely not normal lol

[stoic heath]

She’s the fake final boss

[spare pendant]

She's not

[uncut holly]

I think Greyroot wanted to rebirth with just hornet. Honestly Greyroot might not even need a Higher Being to gain that status because theyve been amassing power over all this time.

[spark valve]

nobody is saying it's normal but you absolutely can distinguish the ability to interact with higher beings from necessarily being a higher being

[wary plover]

She felt so weak, like... defeatable, which is unbecoming of a higher being

[whole holly]

Higher Beings usually have some type of power or force they utilize ( essence/dreams, soul, void, nightmare essence, silk) greyroot doesn't have that but game doesn't let us evaluate characters based on essence because there is no access to dreams in pharloom

[stoic heath]

Hornet is a demigod so

[spare pendant]

Hornet is a pale being born of wyrm and one of her descendants

[uncut holly]

I mean we can infer its a Higher Being from it being a Root.

[spark valve]

not really

[uncut holly]

It also absorbs power over generations

It is likely in the weight class

[whole holly]

Higher Beings usually have some type of power or force they utilize ( essence/dreams, soul, void, nightmare essence, silk) greyroot doesn't have that but game doesn't let us evaluate characters based on essence because there is no access to dreams in pharloom

[spark valve]

the fact that the bud has such wildy varying potential if anything would actively suggest that roots are NOT necessarily all HBs

[uncut holly]

It also kills GMS, and the Citadel. Which it did probably get a power boost from GMS to do that, but it probably had some starting point of higher being level power. Maybe less than White Lady as White Lady is bigger

[stoic heath]

Do you people think Hornet is just much frailer than the Knight or that average Pharloom bugs are just that strong?

[spare pendant]

Hornet is squishy yes

[uncut holly]

But the implication the game gives is that this thing is related to White Lady

[spark valve]

in some capacity

[spare pendant]

Hornet is squishy and has bone cancer

[uncut holly]

And White Lady is a higher being

[spark valve]

but again, relation, especially for a species that has power levels which vary depending on the specifics of what host they use for the rite of rebirth, doesn't mean they're on the same level

[wary plover]

Wass spreading abyss through gms's silk part of the snails plan or just an accident

[spark valve]

wl could have just been created by use of a more powerful host

[uncut holly]

We dont know that White Lady rebirths

[spark valve]

you are the one claiming they're the same species

[whole holly]

well you can say parasite ascended to higher being status, which is still speculation, but no inherent power to qualify greyroot as higher being prior to that, parasitism may be it's biological trait

[uncut holly]

Yes but they do different things

White Ladys thing is mass birth. Greyroot rebirths its what they do, and higher being is a status

[spark valve]

which means... one isn't necessarily a god just because the other is...

[wary plover]

Why bone cancer

[stoic heath]

I don’t think a Silksong mod where you play as the Knight would be completable as the Knight doesn’t have the proper movement but a Hollow Knight mod where you play as Hornet she would break the game wide open

[uncut holly]

Seeing as they are both the same type of creature, and Greyroot absorbs power from people over generations its likely they hit the power qualifications

[spark valve]

yes this is the point

[spare pendant]

Just hyperbole. She's clearly weakened in silksong lol

[spark valve]

you're just saying that though, there's nothing demonstrating that to be the case, or that power is cumulative and not dependent on each host individually

[stoic heath]

Can’t wait for Fireb0rn to do a Hollow Knight Speedrunner vs Hunters video where the Hunters are Hornet

[whole holly]

well thinking further, reproduction is really great way to tell distinction between species, but who knows maybe roots have multiple ways of reproducing that WL never utilizes

[wary plover]

The knight doesn't have the hook shot

[uncut holly]

Greyroot rebirths themself, they come back stronger like a pheonix as this is what rebirth is typically associated with, and they use a host to do it through people even though they arent dying

Greyroot is a parasite, they rebirth themself from people and take their power from the process.

Or they get empowered from it

[spare pendant]

what's with the random detour about phoenixes lol

[spark valve]

yes that doesn't mean it's cumulative

[uncut holly]

I mean it just seems like it would make the most sense. You have this thing that is like White Lady, looks like White Lady, isnt a bug like White Lady, is obsessed with birth but a different spin on it than White Lady who was obsessed with making vessels.

And they rebirth through people stealing their own, instead rebirthing themself.

[wary plover]

Wait white lady is a bug?

[spark valve]

you yourself acknowledge that this completely undercuts any reason to think they have the same amount of power currently even if the potential is there

[spare pendant]

No

[stoic heath]

White Lady just had a very strong Libido

[uncut holly]

You put two and two together, they are related, they also kill a confirmed Higher Being. Its likely they are a higher being.

How so?

They are the same type of creature, and Greyroot has been amassing power from people deliberately while White Lady does not

And higher being is a status

[spark valve]

you're just stipulating that though there's no reason to think she's ever done the rite enough or on anything powerful enough to make her a god

you just made that up

[uncut holly]

We see alot of people dead in Greyroots basement

[spark valve]

a lot of random nobodies

[spare pendant]

So your stance is that she's possibly not technically a higher being, but she can become one if she hasn't already?

[uncut holly]

We know shes done it before, the bell jester at Belhart tells of a cultural phenomena where people visit there for good luck and die

Its been going on for a very long time

Also Greyroot says that no one have come by in a long time

[spark valve]

my stance is it appears she currently lacks the powers associated with being a god, but by the nature of the rite of rebirth she and/or her children have the ability to become one if they get a host powerful enough (as in the twisted child ending)

[spare pendant]

So she is at least a higher being in the twisted child ending?

[uncut holly]

I mean, White Lady just sits there to whole game. I feel like Greyroot definitely acts similarly if no more aggressive than White Lady if we are going off of their actions

[spark valve]

or the bud but probably

[uncut holly]

I mean the bud is her, its Rebirth

I believe the achievment is called Rebirth

[spark valve]

sure either way

[spare pendant]

Then I mean, I don't think any other discussion is worth having

She may or may not be a higher being and probably becomes one in a certain ending

[worn flicker]

Next topic then

[wary plover]

I actually think that a higher being is any physical body that enshrines a conceptual existence

[fossil swift]

Greyroot feels like a more aggressive White Lady

[spare pendant]

What conceptual existence is Unn

[spark valve]

that's not really implied by the games

[fossil swift]

actually are they like
the same species

[worn flicker]

Snail

[spark valve]

Maybe™

[fossil swift]

I have no idea because physically they look similar ?

[spare pendant]

PLEASE IM BEGGING WE JUST HAD A WH-

[fossil swift]

LISTEN

YOU LOOK AT THEM

[gilded beacon]

Lazy ass slug

[fossil swift]

and you tell me they don't look like they're not from the same species

[spare pendant]

literally the same argument that just ended im crying /lh

[fossil swift]

but this does kinda confirm that neither have arms

well they have ways to use other appendages

don't think they'd classify as arms though

[worn flicker]

What do ya think about lifeblood/plasmium with new additions in silksong

[spare pendant]

I do think they look similar in contrast to literally everything else in this game, but they look very different besides that. this leads me to believe they are very different, but they must be the same species if wyrms are one species

[fossil swift]

The addition of plasmium is so funny

[spark valve]

it's a weird change but whatever

[spare pendant]

act 3 plasmium made me cry :(

[fossil swift]

could be a subspecies thing

same family just branched out

[wary plover]

Warding

[fossil swift]

Although Greyroot brings more questions than answers

[spare pendant]

well then unn did a really shit fucking job

[worn flicker]

Thing is i Wonder if the mutagenic effects of plasmium are why Joni was called a heretic

[spare pendant]

couldn't ward against the white lady, or the infection, or the pale king

[fossil swift]

I mean probably

[spark valve]

what does she ward against

[gilded beacon]

All the roots are very mysterious and TC won't give us any answers

[wary plover]

Taking damage while healing I dunno stop digging too much into it it's just a theory

[whole holly]

way Polyp Pouch affects Lifeblood is weird too, kind of Opposite of Hiveblood

[fossil swift]

time to come up with our own answers ig

[spare pendant]

the white lady really just said "ill be taking this" to like half of greenpath and she just sat down and took it

[whole holly]

consuming lifeblood was heresy in hallownest

[worn flicker]

Also idk if im dumb but I think that none of the plasmium infected enemies are are affected by void maybe why Jonis tomb is in the abyss

[gilded beacon]

I could see them as an embodiment of life itself, hence the WL needs to breed

[spark valve]

it's in howling cliffs

[spare pendant]

jonis tomb is not in the abyss?

[worn flicker]

Isnt it right above it?

[fossil swift]

Roots but sentient™

[spare pendant]

the blue creature in the abyss is a completely separate thing, and possibly the origin of lifeblood

[worn flicker]

God I need a rerun of hollow knight the goddamn years made me nearly senile

[spare pendant]

it's like as far as it can physically be

jonis tomb is in howling cliffs

[worn flicker]

So I do have alzheimers

[fossil swift]

i do too
i don't remember much outside of pale court or grimm troupe shenanigans

[wary plover]

So the moths worship the radiance, weavers worship silk, and snails worship the abyss? What do the craws worship then

[gilded beacon]

What silksanity has done to us

[fossil swift]

Craw Father

probably ?

[naive crag]

i only remember important things because i used to get obsessed for a week every 6 months

[wary plover]

Is that a real thing

[spare pendant]

weavers dont worship silk do they

[fossil swift]

like i dont think they worship a 'deity'
because they have a big council spearheaded by this 1 big craw

[spark valve]

he plays a procedural role in a ritual but doesn't seem to be an object of worship

[fossil swift]

hmm

[wary plover]

Why doesn't craws get a god. When all the other species do

[worn flicker]

I dont think they do, more like they were created with that intent

[fossil swift]

are vagrants the right term ?

i dont think they're religious by any means

[spare pendant]

they don't

[gilded beacon]

It's more of an authority figure than a religious one imo

[spark valve]

not all species have gods

[whole holly]

guys it seems that Higher Beings have Force they have power over , like Essence, Soul, Void, Silk but they also utilize it for creation

[fossil swift]

but it just seems like Craw Father is the defacto leader, in a way

but yeah not a deity in any capacity

[worn flicker]

For all we know they might have one

[spare pendant]

the only species with gods are the ones literally created by higher beings, like moths

[spark valve]

they're gods they have some form of magic yes

[whole holly]

Manties Tribes don't have gods

[fossil swift]

If the Craws get a god i will destroy it with my bare hands

fucking hate those things

[wary plover]

I hate craws btw, they're the most sinful existence

[spare pendant]

[spark valve]

hey they're just little guys

[fossil swift]

Fleas are little guys

Craws are fuckasses who won't leave me alone

[worn flicker]

How I miss him

[wary plover]

Sherma and lace are little guys.

[gilded beacon]

I kinda love them
Think they're cute

[whole holly]

that makes it easy to disqualify lot of contenders like Greyroot and Palestag

[spark valve]

yes those things not having a lot of magic is a problem for them being gods

[spare pendant]

Palestag isn't a higher being

[worn flicker]

Not again

[spare pendant]

Palestag is touched by a pale being

[whole holly]

i agree

[spark valve]

palestag though is implied not even to have existed in the form we see it, it's a mythicized memory

[whole holly]

?

[worn flicker]

Is it now?

[fossil swift]

does that make the palestag a pale being ?

[wary plover]

Flees, sherma, lace, garmand, and the bellbeast babies are like the most innocent and harmless things in the entirety of pharloom

[spare pendant]

It's specifically described as "paletouched"

[spark valve]

Myth made real in memory. The creature seemed completely at one with the flora around it. Did it ever truly exist as I have seen it?
it's a folk tale

[wary plover]

Garmand can't even hit anything properly he's like a zote that tries.

[whole holly]

i know?

[fossil swift]

so not technically a palebeing
more like pale-adjacent ?

[worn flicker]

Oh my

[naive crag]

idk about lace

[fossil swift]

Lace is more tragic if anything

[spare pendant]

The weavers are also kinda adjacent, they descend from a pale being and are called pale ones

[fossil swift]

Innocent and harmless ?
Far from it

[patent ermine]

lace? harmless?? the woman who kicked my ass several times before i got to meet her mom 😭

[naive crag]

it was said lace killed anyone she found at the citadel

[fossil swift]

Lace isn't evil but she's definitely not nice

[spare pendant]

Wyrm forbid a girl has hobbies

[wary plover]

Okay but she doesn't pose as much as a threat as craws or those stupid singing pilgrims holding bellstaffs. I hate those more than the conductors, the violinists, and the entirety of the underworks combined.

[fossil swift]

the craws are significantly worse

these fucks

they FLY

[gilded beacon]

She's a baddie

[worn flicker]

Oh now that some ppl mentioned weavers, do any of ya remember the short reports of weavers from the cradle

[wary plover]

Now you have lace who you fight like what, once twice but no more than 3 times and she is just a baby who wants to be a real girl

[fossil swift]

maybe im just peeved it took me forever to get silk storm but i hate craws

[gilded beacon]

What are Craw's even meant to be??

[fossil swift]

birds i guess

[spare pendant]

they're bugs based on birds

[fossil swift]

well they are birds

kinda

[spare pendant]

they're bugs, they're just based on crows

[fossil swift]

Crows but bug

[wary plover]

I was listening to scarlet forests ost while fighting the craws gauntlet and the whole thing seemed like a comedic theatre

[gilded beacon]

Yeah, but do they have a irl bug equivalent?

[spare pendant]

nope

[naive crag]

im sorry to every HK bug i complained about

[spare pendant]

their irl equivalent is a crow

[fossil swift]

im pretty sure theyre just birds as bugs

[gilded beacon]

Ok, I still love Craws

[fossil swift]

theyre so stupidly annoying

[naive crag]

like markoth at least i had somewhere to stand on unlike nyleth

[gilded beacon]

They're cute

[fossil swift]

the smaller ones are fine

[whole holly]

i love the, easy to deal with once you obtain reaper crest

[fossil swift]

but the tall ones ?
no thank you

[distant briar]

nyleth was the freest fight in the game

[gilded beacon]

Nyleth just be aura farming while dead

[worn flicker]

So mates in the cradle we find few reports of weavers excluding the widow one do any of ya have perchance screenshots of the others

[spare pendant]

if you think greymoor is bad imagine being one of the bugs making up the marrow