sk-lore

[white panther]

upcoming

[humble iron]

No matter what I think it will stay that way

people who manipulate void never truly understand its nature, such as PK

[modern bay]

I think it's interesting that they don't have information on the void because it implies that they're not necessarily able to get close enough to investigate

[lucid dirge]

whats the deal with shade lord food?!

[olive glen]

Oh wait there is dlc confirmed?!

[lucid dirge]

https://tenor.com/view/jerry-seinfeld-stand-up-stand-up-comedian-show-gif-17268262

[lucid dirge]

yes

[humble iron]

they have to be in the game because it was a backer creation

[craggy smelt]

TC mentioned they want to keep working on Silksong post-release

[humble iron]

And honestly the backer kinda cooked

[white panther]

erm...we know the weavers were observing it, studying it (by the architecture on the abyss and the drones). We also know the Snails can manipulate it at some level

[olive glen]

We need a Godhome for Silksong I can't lie

[humble iron]

The snails can summon it but most definitely not control it lol

[naive crag]

yeah but the point of the void is that no one knows about it isnt it

[craggy smelt]

its ancient, powerful, mysterious, and dangerous

[white panther]

not necessarily a DLC, could be part of an update for example. A room somewhere or a dream npc

Like we have on Steel mode

some new rooms, new tools, new npcs and lore

[humble iron]

Even PK who's the epitomy of knowledge doesn't fully understand its nature it seems

[lucid dirge]

we would really need a ng+ or godhome though

[craggy smelt]

White Lady says the void is 'forever bound to our family', though I'm not sure if she's referring to the hallownest royalty (PK, WL, vessels) or all pale beings (PK calls Radiance 'blazing kin')

[lucid dirge]

whats the point of new tools if i cant torture savage beastfly with them?

[olive glen]

So not like Hollow Knight where there was a couple major update packs but more just like smaller updates, right?

[white panther]

or even some instanced room like we had on the red memory

[humble iron]

Well considering the sheer amount of kids they threw into the abyss like 99% of the family is void lol

[craggy smelt]

yea that's what I mean - is the void bound to just that pale family by the creation of the vessels, or is there some greater conflict between the void and pale beings as a collective

[humble iron]

Considering the needle kinda acts like a dream nail accessing godhome doesn't seem too far fetched

[white panther]

big maybe, no one knows anything about the plans. IF they want to just insert the 3 backer's bosses, it doesnt need to be a dlc in itself, but if they want the Steel City and etc to be part of something bigger, its one hell of a good oporutnity to make a dlc for it

[humble iron]

On that note, I wonder if Ze'mer was only made a knight because of the pale flowers from her land

and the fact that the pale family wanted their hands on them

[white panther]

im 120% sure we will have a Godhome equivalent, with boss rush rooms and difficulty levels. No need for deep lore or anything

[humble iron]

they managed to put important lore into godhome in HK so they could do it in silksong too

[somber storm]

are white lady and witch related? is that why she bound herself, so she doesn't become like the pharloom's witch?

[gilded beacon]

In which case, what new bosses/ versions of bosses can we expect?

[craggy smelt]

yeah, was just thinking - WL calls the everbloom the 'first light' and the 'only means we possess to resist that void'
if they were present far away from Hallownest, it suggests that there are powers opposed to the Void across the world - this more expansive conflict between light/pale and darkness/void

[humble iron]

she bound herself so she won't have any more babies

she feels guilty

[naive crag]

does the everbloom directly stop the void or is that just because of its light

since in hk that big lantern stops the tendrils

[lucid dirge]

no its cuz she fucks anything that moves

[naive crag]

is it specific to the flower or any light works

[wild falcon]

Lifeblood is an embodiment or butterfly god?

[lucid dirge]

i think going into the void lake itself is specific to it

[humble iron]

I think void is like the ultimate god killer so it makes sense that they would have everblooms as a way to avoid that fate. Otherwise I'm not sure what can really kill a god ? Another god ig ? So far we've only seen void kill higher beings

[craggy smelt]

Void is repelled and suppressed by strong light, but the Everbloom seems to be exceptionally good at doing so - banishing even the Void Given Focus, which can ignore the Radiance's light

[narrow glacier]

probanly "pale/white" light

[craggy smelt]

yeah, and the one thing that can trump even the Void is incredibly fragile to everything else

[olive glen]

The Steel City?

[gilded beacon]

Radiance's light is weaker than the one in the lighthouse?

[humble iron]

Rock paper scissors type shit

[white panther]

something related to the corals/barnacles, steel and snails/tentacles

[craggy smelt]

no, Radiance is vastly more powerful - the Knight unifies the Void, which allows the Void to counter even Radiance's light, but is in turn banished by the Everbloom

[gilded beacon]

We all want Corals back

[modern bay]

I wonder if they could make coral knight cool with a new version of him

[humble iron]

I hope we can go through the whole coral biome in the dream realm or whatever that realm is called in silksong

[craggy smelt]

looks so good and pretty complete, same with coral forest! why they cut
why must we wait

[gilded beacon]

I wonder if we can revive the whole kingdom, the Watcher at the edge revives, I think that most coral guys are just dried up and not fully dead

[white panther]

i would also like a better Ant Kingdom, not just a room or two

[humble iron]

Ant kingdom has hunter's march kinda

They haven't really lost much territory have they

[spare pendant]

I just hope we get a postgame where everything is fixed and everyone lives happily ever after

[olive glen]

Hunter's March needs something more though

Hopefully it also gets updated

[humble iron]

There's space to expand asw which is nice

[gilded beacon]

The wait made me imagine the area by myself

[naive crag]

i always wanted smth like this

i wanna see what the bugs have to say after theyre finally freed

[white panther]

But for sure we will have our Usopp Pikmin at some point

[naive crag]

in hallownest too

but ig its unrealistic

[gilded beacon]

Hunter's March once also occupied the right of Far Fields

We will see more of it

[humble iron]

Highly doubt that'll ever happen in a TC game, +open ends are based

[modern bay]

Is the rest of Verdania accessible after the dream section or no?

[spare pendant]

i know it won't 😔

[craggy smelt]

steel ship
puts me in mind of a weird alien-like vessel
appropriate for the steel bugs imo

[humble iron]

it still does tbh there's no one stopping the ants there

[spare pendant]

we're definitely getting crazy content expansions though considering team cherry has said they cut a lot of content for later

[gilded beacon]

Maybe a Hot Take but Putriffied Ducks also deserve an update

[modern bay]

Where did they say this

[naive crag]

we know the only thing that really stopped tc from making hollow knight huge is the money

[craggy smelt]

is that an actual statement? give!

[spare pendant]

it was a few months before release date, lemme find it

[white panther]

They really need to add || fishing ||

[floral tundra]

Okay so, why the living duck.... Is the Knight here....

[modern bay]

True...

[modern bay]

That's what I was wondering

[naive crag]

so with silksong they can keep going forever now kinda

[craggy smelt]

yeees
and a fishing journal
needle-rod

[humble iron]

I hope we get more higher beings, there were much less of em in Pharloom than Hallownest

[gilded beacon]

The Steel Masters have come to Pharloom to investigate because of all the Void shenanigans

[humble iron]

HOnestly fishing makes sense with silk

[olive glen]

Outside of thoes steel bosses and the shell town place do we know anything else that has been moved to post launch?

[gilded beacon]

There are like actual fishing spiders irl

[floral tundra]

That means there is a canon ending to Hollow Knight, and there's only 3 options. Either he beats the Radiance, or either of the two endings with Absrad.

[craggy smelt]

i figured that's why they'd be there - they aren't happy with their vassals using forbidden Void powers
originally I thought the steel assassins might be after Hornet because they're angry about what her dad did
now, she has her own Void crimes to answer for

[craggy smelt]

coral forest used to be more than just a gauntlet tower, it was a whole area

[humble iron]

No that means that silksong follows one of 3 HK endings. It means it's cannon in silksong, but it's not necessarily cannon in HK

[floral tundra]

But.... I think there's only one option... And it's the Flowerless ending of Absrad.

[floral tundra]

Fair, fair.

[white panther]

We could have...hmmm
Silkline or Needlehook for fishing

Silkreel

[modern bay]

I'm nearly positive it's an absrad ending

[craggy smelt]

honestly, even HK DLC didn't add entire zones (Godhome was the closest thing to a new area) so if SS DLC were to add even one that would be a huge step up from HK DLC

[floral tundra]

But the Sealed Siblings ending can't be cannon in Silksong.

[humble iron]

Of course

I'm not denying that

[gilded beacon]

It's mainly because they've discovered a way to focus the void in a way that it gets intelligence to make robots, now they want to exploit Pharloom's Void, destroying the kingdom in the process

[floral tundra]

Or just normal ending.

[humble iron]

Godhome is absolutely a new area in term of the work that went into the area

[narrow glacier]

Funny: the first game is all about descending. But the final boss has you ascend.

While in this game, it’s all about ascending, but the final boss has you descend.

[humble iron]

lol that's true

[modern bay]

I saw the paralels between the two games

[humble iron]

having a final boss located near the beginning is fun

[craggy smelt]

it had a ton of new assets certainly, and it was the DLC with the longest development time, but it wasn't set up like your typical exploration zone, it was a giant gallery for boss rushes

[modern bay]

First thing I noticed was you started from the bottom in Silksong and the top in Hollow Knight

[sacred pike]

Next game will probably make u go towards the right and make u go left for the final boss /s

[modern bay]

I like it

[gilded beacon]

They mainly wanted to make the boss rush an actual place instead of a menu option

[floral tundra]

It's like the whole "A square is a rectangle but a rectangle isn't necessarily a square" In Hollow Knight, stand alone by itself, all of the endings could be true. But in Silksong, only one (At least to me) seems like the correct ending. And it's Flowerless Godhome ending.

[craggy smelt]

soon as I stumbled across that Diving Bell I was like 'we're going to Void town in this'

[white panther]

if that last Silk Soar we did was on the surface we could have easily reached the Moon or something

[craggy smelt]

which I think was great

[humble iron]

Yeah exactly, all the endings are still cannon in HK, but not in silksong

[olive glen]

All endings are canon to Hollow Knight but only a few are canon to Silksong

[white panther]

"all endings are canon" is also very polite to your fanbase, since you dont make them feel incomplete or wrong if they only did the basic one

[sacred pike]

To me only Dream no more and Delicate Flower ending can be reasonably canon

[muted lantern]

people really overexxagerated first sinners difficulty to me

[humble iron]

First sinner isn't too difficult, it's mostly fun

[modern bay]

I beat it first try but it was a really really fun fight

[muted lantern]

i had a harder time with the unraveled

[whole aspen]

is silksong a prequel or sequel

[sacred pike]

Sequel

[modern bay]

Sequel

[humble iron]

It taught me how to use the clawline more offensively asw

[gilded beacon]

Me too don't get me wrong.
Now I wonder how they will integrate the boss rush without the Godseekers

[modern bay]

I just coped with my dash

[sacred pike]

Using "Memory" perhaps

[floral tundra]

Alright. Unless they were already planning on doing Silksong, or at least continuing the story and they didn't want to spoil the next bit of story by saying "This is the canon ending"... God this is starting to give me Fnaf SB vibes....

[humble iron]

Boss rush Khan when he no longer has his army to gatekeep his fight:

[sacred pike]

Access past boss using some kind of memory magic

[modern bay]

Okay but their lore is miles better than FNAF because it seems like they actually think about what they write

[gilded beacon]

That was a warm up

[humble iron]

just think of silksong as a specific timeline

[floral tundra]

Fair enough. I myself have only two endings to get, and that's Both God home endings.

[floral tundra]

NO THAT'S FAIR AHAHAHAHA

[spare pendant]

Ah alright, I misremembered. It was the Bloomberg interview after the release date was finalized. And they didn't say they cut content for later, they said they have more planned.

“The most interesting thing now is what can we add to it next,” Gibson said. “We got a plan. Admittedly, some of the plans for that stuff are kind of ambitious as well, but hopefully we can achieve some of it.”

[gilded beacon]

I wish that Hornet talked more with some bosses since she can talk and we would get lots of lore

[floral tundra]

Oh God that's even worse-

[modern bay]

That's incredibly exciting either way

Explicitly stating they have more plans makes me happy

[spare pendant]

There's also the God's Glory gamemode that got leaked. I'm excited to see how that differs from Godhome, both thematically and mechanically

[floral tundra]

Are we going to get another game that either continues the time line, or goes back to Hallow Nest???

[humble iron]

I am still mad that she straight up killed phantom. I don't understand why she arbitrarly chooses some bosses to kill and other to spare

[spare pendant]

Probably not

[floral tundra]

For any of the other endings???

[modern bay]

Yeah, we're going to play as a mushroom

[floral tundra]

HAHA yeah I saw that.

[white panther]

Lone Fungus

[spare pendant]

Team cherry once said they want silksong to be their last game in the hollow knight world. They might go back on that, but it's unlikely.

[humble iron]

I would love for it to be a trilogy but I get it if it's the last

[modern bay]

And he'll go from the left to the right for progression instead of up > down and vice versa

[white panther]

tbf they can still spend YEARS doing updates and dlcs

[floral tundra]

I think we might go back to Hallow Nest then. Because if that was some big explosion or something, something had to have gone wrong in Hallow Nest.

[olive glen]

I guess they could bring them back?

[gilded beacon]

Exactly, there's lots of bosses just aura farming all the time and we get no answers,
Phantom, Kahn, Nyleth...

[modern bay]

I wouldn't mind something new

[spare pendant]

There would have been a third game if we backed the first game enough 😔

Well, a third playable character, but we all saw what happened to the second one

[gilded beacon]

It's always an option, would rather have new characters but I'm okay with it

[floral tundra]

Fair enough.

[olive glen]

Yeah

[white panther]

i defend phantom since it was an incomplete attempt, like a beta Lace of sorts. Maybe Phantom cant even talk

[gilded beacon]

Zoteboat

[humble iron]

I also used needolin before the phantom fight so it feels even weirder for hornet not to spare Lace's sister but to spare Lace herself

[white panther]

didnt someone find a Zote shadow somewhere? i vaguely remember this

[humble iron]

then again Phantom wanted to die so idk

[wary plover]

Could the pale king also have been tricked by the snails?

[spare pendant]

You mean the zote statue in godhome?

[gilded beacon]

Fair enough, but the others? They are fully conscious while we're in their dreams

[wary plover]

What about lace maybe lace was also tricked by the snails?

[white panther]

no no, on the background on one of the bell stations iirc

[humble iron]

Imagine if he got his intel for creating vessels from the snails and the snails fucked not only once but twice

[spare pendant]

Hallownest snails don't have any known relation to the void

[olive glen]

Hollow Knight. JR for the Nintendo 3Ds

[floral tundra]

But I smell some kind of shenanigans with that too, because it says by itself "To be continued" so it's either a DLC, or another game. And with the track record team cherry has their gonna make a DLC, and then just turn it into it's own game.

[wary plover]

Except all the snail shamans have void spells and they're overly friendly to the knight

[spare pendant]

Lmao maybe

[wary plover]

Imagine if the snails have just a secret underground society that's trying ruin every kingdom

[spare pendant]

No, the void spells were apparently created by the knight fusing their power into its own void.

[humble iron]

According to them they had a huge amount of fun making silksong so I don't put it past them to make a third game for fun

[wary plover]

Where is the source for this

[humble iron]

But yeah sadly the snails in hallownest have no idea of the void

though maybe it's the knight's fault that now snails do know

[wary plover]

I see

[floral tundra]

And see the thing is, they LOVE making games, and they also LOVE this world they've made, it would kinda be sad to see them move on from it. At least without Closure.

[spare pendant]

Other user above me, take with a grain of salt. There's no evidence they had the void spells themselves though

[floral tundra]

RIGHT?! I can see it!

[humble iron]

The n again if they make a game in another universe I'm sure it'll be peak

[floral tundra]

And maybe we Follow Lace this time, going back to Hallow Nest.

[spare pendant]

They're going to add dlc to this game, the question is if they end up scope creeping a whole new experience again

well they don't call it DLC anymore actually

they call it expansion packs

[white panther]

its a dream so...they are being weird. If i could ask for it i would love some talk with Crawfather

[humble iron]

I want a game that explores multiple smaller kingdoms so we can see what's inbetween them in the endless plains

[floral tundra]

Hell it could be fun/interesting if they made a Co-op where main player plays as Lace and player two plays as Hornet.

[naive crag]

i dont think it would make sense to have lace be the playable character in case it happens

[humble iron]

Somehow, Crawfather is one of the few enemies to have a good reason to attack you

[spare pendant]

Next playable character is sherma

[craggy smelt]

the kingdoms are what's between the endless plains - its all wastelands otherwise

[humble iron]

The game is a series of doors you unlock through song

[floral tundra]

Oh no that's fair. They intentionally made a bigger kingdom with all the wanted to give Hornet. Because she would feel cramped in Hallow Nest. Hence why she fought in big, huge areas.

[spare pendant]

There may be smaller colonies

[humble iron]

nope, there are smaller villages like Shakra's

[spare pendant]

Oh I forgot about her

Then yeah there just straight up are other colonies

[humble iron]

I don't know if they really have another very interesting character to explore as in depth as they did with hornet

[white panther]

|| Void Radiant Sherma || so far is my fav boss from Steel mode

[humble iron]

lol

[naive crag]

they can make them interesting

[spare pendant]

I wonder if we'll get like, Stained bosses instead of Radiant bosses

[modern bay]

There are steel mode specific bosses?

[floral tundra]

Actually, that begs the question. Where does Shakra come from? She gives me Mantis vibes but, she's not from the mantis village. Or if she is, why is she all the way over here????

[spare pendant]

It's a joke

[modern bay]

Oh gotcha

[humble iron]

fair I trust them

[spare pendant]

She comes from a small village independent of any kingdom

[white panther]

yup. We have exclusive tools, quests and even areas

[floral tundra]

Aaaah okay.

[craggy smelt]

when I say kingdom, I'm thinking of liveable areas in the wastes - the 'City of Steel' would be one
it's islands of liveable areas in a world of expansive wastelands

[humble iron]

One of her warcries is the same as the mantis lords, but that might be because they have a "warrior language" that shakra mentions when you meet her

[spare pendant]

i mean that's basically true for any world that hasn't been completely colonized tbf

[craggy smelt]

like islands on a sea

like One Piece

[humble iron]

you could have an archipelago then

[spare pendant]

It's not confirmed but I headcanon that the mantis village was once completely unrelated to hallownest, and just happens to have been entangled in their conflict

[floral tundra]

True. Or maybe they are cousins to the mantis? Or are part of the mantis tribe, but they sometimes venture out to make/find other livable habitats for them for survival. Either because there's too many mantis being born, or because of food reserves or, many other reasons.

[humble iron]

could be that mantis tribes are scattered throughout the world

[humble iron]

Common ancestor or something yeah

[white panther]

On Steel exclusives for example, instead of the Dead Bug's Purse (retain some rosaries upon defeat) we have the Shell Satchet (increase quantity of tools)

[floral tundra]

Yeah something like that too.

[craggy smelt]

that's exactly how it is, the mantis tribe predates the kingdom, they entered into treaty with them after Hallownest's founding

[floral tundra]

That's what I was thinking.

[spare pendant]

Oh? I'm just so smart

[humble iron]

how does styx change ?

since it's specifically something for coccoons

[white panther]

i vaguely remember Hornet saying that she was sorry the mantis tribe got caught up in the middle of the light vs dark conflict of hallownest

[spare pendant]

styx offers payment in ... other ways /j

[humble iron]

😳

[floral tundra]

Also, I haven't even gotten to her yet and I already have a favorite boss.

[craggy smelt]

styx is dead in SS mode - some other NPC is there that buys silkeaters

[floral tundra]

The ant Opera singer lady.

[craggy smelt]

i wanna say they're called Stynx? that doesn't sound right...

[humble iron]

Karmelita

[white panther]

Styx is on vacation leave on Steel mode

[spare pendant]

I bet the mantis village in hallownest is actually related to Shakra's village, like an offshoot colony the four mantis lords led.

[quick cairn]

that or there are many mantis villages throught the Hollow Knight lore

[floral tundra]

Yes her. Her movement just. Oh my God, it's NKG all over again.

[naive crag]

shakras tribe seems very different from the mantis

[humble iron]

could be that some mantis leave the nest like Shakra and end up founding new colonies

[brittle vine]

Is there a lore reason why Lace is an unaging child? Because it genuinely feels like Team Cherry made her that just to fuck w the shippers, because they also had Shakra call Hornet a child too!

[humble iron]

They made her that because GMS wanted a kid

[quick cairn]

because she's ||artifical life|| would be my guess

[naive crag]

she even mentions in her tribe its a sign of weakness to die of old age and not in battle and i dont think thats something the mantis would agree with

[floral tundra]

I can see that. After all most mantis villages are composed of women, and her and her master are both, so maybe they are mantis, just haven't been told out right.

[spare pendant]

According to Shakra, all of them leave the nest when they are ready

Even the ones who perpetuate it

[humble iron]

then that might be how the mantis village arose, from a few of Shakra's village that arrived in hallownest

[white panther]

Her dialogue about her master dying of old age is really good, let me find it again

[modern bay]

This is an odd line of thinking, I can't imagine that they would write a character that way due to shippers

[spare pendant]

The mantis lords are higher beings /j

[naive crag]

i always found it interesting how the mantis managed to not be infected by radiance at all

[spare pendant]

Hornet isn't a child. She's just short. She's ancient

[white panther]

This goes HARD, love it

[humble iron]

Lace being a kid is essential to the lore, if she wasn't GMS's child she wouldn't have saved her

[floral tundra]

Well for starters both Lace and hornet are immortal, The pale king is a god and helped give birth to hornet, and Lace is just made of silk and void.

[humble iron]

TC's least fire line:

[muted lantern]

dude this is so dark, the outside light in the break room for the underworks is just a lamp, when i first came in here i was grossed out by the fake confessional, but i was like "oh at least the window is nice." everything about the underworks is so fucked up and cruel, the benches are paid, the robot confession is payed.. man..

[spare pendant]

That's because they actively combatted it and held it back. That's what separated them from the traitors, who embraced it.

[naive crag]

yeah ik im just saying its interesting how they actually managed to have enough strength for that

is there anyone else who resisted it? i dont remember

[spare pendant]

Literally everyone who's alive in hk

[muted lantern]

also you guys found the easter egg of the bug on the treadmill right? thats grim as fuck too

[modern bay]

Where is this?

[craggy smelt]

i didn't find him until Act3 - sad

[muted lantern]

somewhere in the undeworks lemme go find it

[floral tundra]

Speaking of Easter eggs.

[naive crag]

does it do anything i tried for 20 minutes and gave up

[muted lantern]

the saddest part about the treadmill bug is that if you run the treadmill with him it just pops out 1 rosary after an incredibly long time, you have to be running for probably hours just to get a bench to rest on, even longer to confess some sin.

[muted lantern]

does he die in act 3?

[floral tundra]

Hornet, in bell heart's bench before you beat the weaver, if you save and quit on that bench then go back in, she's tied up. What the fuck does that mean??? Why does she get tied up? And why not any any other area? The silk can go anywhere, so why that place specifically?

[craggy smelt]

he squish by falling rock

[brittle vine]

I'm not saying she is I'm saying Team Cherry is making Shakra precieve her as a child and call her that to dissuade shippers. Like it wouldn't be right to date someone you thought was a child even if they weren't

I don't think TC likes shippers

[modern bay]

Where does this thought come from?

[spare pendant]

I mean that was a snide comment on first meeting, it wouldn't be relevant after they've spent so long getting to know eachother

[naive crag]

i like to think its for comedic value

[modern bay]

Is this baseless conjecture or does it have reason behind it?

[white panther]

All the other places have a lot of movement, very alive, could be confusing for her to pinpoint someone

[floral tundra]

Yeah, a funnier way of calling someone short XD

[floral tundra]

Maybe

[muted lantern]

oh god his corpses needolin dialogue is heartbreaking, even despite all he says about the value of work he felt freed when he was crushed to death

[modern bay]

Thank you

[muted lantern]

I spent a while trying to help him run the treadmill

I would have liked if he was saveable

[naive crag]

ive seen someone say the treadmill bug was a critique to society or something but i didnt give it much thought

[modern bay]

That sounds about right

[naive crag]

tc isnt the type of people to do something like that

[muted lantern]

i mean it is pretty overtly a capitalism commertary

[spare pendant]

it's a critique of the citadel, which itself is a parody of real-world capitalism (especially underworks)

[muted lantern]

the whole of silksong is about organized religion and industrialization

[spare pendant]

hollow knight actually has a ton of irl messaging it's just secondary to the main storyline

[modern bay]

I'd beg to differ, the entire "make your way to the top to make it to heaven" of Silksong and the capitalist classist separation in Hollow Knight is very apparent

[white panther]

i hate when a giant spider controls the musicians that controls the city under capitalism

[naive crag]

i meant they dont do it like that

idk how to explain its usually not so on the nose

[brittle vine]

I mean all of Hornet's partners died

[modern bay]

I don't really know, I wouldn't put it past them

[spare pendant]

And...?

[muted lantern]

what about the painter and nailsmith?

[modern bay]

What does this have to do with Team Cherry not liking shipping?

[spare pendant]

team cherry just loves tragic romance lol

[muted lantern]

having a dead lover is pretty classic in many romantic stories

[naive crag]

if anything team cherry gives us a lot of crumbs on purpose all the time

[muted lantern]

this story just isnt about romance, they left it to the fandom

[spare pendant]

yeah like shakra is totally shipping bait

[white panther]

Nah, Hollow Knight is full of happy endings like the....huh....or the other bug that......hmmm....

[muted lantern]

the only shippers who were curbstomped to death by tc were lacenet shippers

[modern bay]

Honestly I think if I was in Hornet's position I would not really be thinking all that much about kissing women

[naive crag]

they even added gays for us

[spare pendant]

i would be

[naive crag]

IN THIS ECONOMY!!

[spare pendant]

but im never not

[vague raft]

damn what did they do lmao

[modern bay]

This is fair

[naive crag]

she isnt but what about after 👀 we may never know

she states many times in the game that she has no time to do a lot of things because of her task

[muted lantern]

i think immortals probably struggle with loving mortals considering losing one partner in your liftime changes you, imagine how losing hundreds would be

[modern bay]

Okay, AFTER everything is a different story

But Hornet's actively risking her life, I don't think I personally would get involved with someone when I'm on the edge of death daily

[naive crag]

shakra was risking her life for bellhart too

[modern bay]

But maybe she's built like that

[quick cairn]

I figured it's the Architect that's still alive since she is Twelfth but what did they do no idea

that is if that's her in the first place

[white panther]

They pushed the red button of the reality bomb of the Moment during the Time War and ruined Gallifrey
or something like that

[muted lantern]

someone on tumblr was calling it misogynistic fanservice when hornet got her cloak stolen, like idk man shes literally a stick figure and bugs dont wear pants already, the cloaks are just for protection and they don't have any societal stuff about it really

[vague raft]

what does casting mean

[quick cairn]

banish

[naive crag]

what i didnt like was the weird old flea

[spare pendant]

Misogynistic fan service to whom?? @1dfucker on twitter??

[modern bay]

FANSERVICE LMAOO

[naive crag]

why am i getting sexually harassed on silksong pls

[muted lantern]

did you know you can smack the shit out of him?

[modern bay]

I like that you could hit him

[naive crag]

i did

[muted lantern]

it makes it feel a little better

[spare pendant]

i didnt even see he peeked on me lowkey i was in and out too fast

[muted lantern]

I missed him the first time so i bathed again so i could smack him

[naive crag]

he still was acting very creepy afterwards tho

[white panther]

i missed that entire part since i never got kidnapped...was kinda weird when i saw the first images of the naked Hornet walking around and i could only think about "man...those people are weird to make mods like that"

[quick cairn]

you smack him so hard he takes damage and you get silk from him

[naive crag]

and they made him old for no reason

[vocal kraken]

yo is shakra and elder hu from the same tribe

[spare pendant]

everyone is old compared to elderbug

[frozen shell]

I think it’s funny death is a sin to the citadel

[frozen shell]

He has rosaries on his wrists

[high bane]

The male gaze at work.

[spare pendant]

possibly! but the only thing to suggest that is clothing, and elder hu was designed by a backer

[quick cairn]

what is even Shakra, she doesn't look like a mantis, she kinda looks like a wasp but where wings

[muted lantern]

i mean creepy old man is a pretty common trope in fiction and real life

[naive crag]

i found out that happens because my sister got kidnapped and sent me a screenshot i was so confused

[modern bay]

I mean I feel like it's the creepy old pervert archetype

[muted lantern]

lmfao

[spare pendant]

she might be a mantis

[quick cairn]

without their claws?

[naive crag]

btw does poshanka mean anything

[vocal kraken]

probably a mantis from the same tribe as elder hu

[wanton epoch]

Is hornet a descendant of grand mother silk?

[naive crag]

i thought it was one of those dialogue voicelines but she literally says poshanka in text once

[spare pendant]

Yes, but not directly. She descends from Herrah who was created by grandma silk.

[modern bay]

I think technically she would be since she made the weavers?

[muted lantern]

technically, since gms made weavers and hornets moms a weaver

[wanton epoch]

How did the weavers end up in hallownest?

[quick cairn]

that's a huge technicallity

[spare pendant]

They ran from Pharloom

[white panther]

hmmmmm yes, afaik all the original weavers came from Silk anyway

[modern bay]

Not really, descending is just down the line

[vocal kraken]

yo what was the weaver boss in silksong again

[muted lantern]

they ran away from granny silk and hid in hallownest, and then got fucked over by another angry goddess so they got the hell out of dodge too

[spare pendant]

Which one? Widow?

[white panther]

Do we know how Herrah lost her hubby?

[naive crag]

if weavers are made of silk what is the difference between them and lace

[vocal kraken]

not widow btw i mean the act 3 one

[vocal kraken]

her hubby is the pale king bro what 😭

[wanton epoch]

Damn bruh the weavers cannot catch a break 😭

[quick cairn]

I believe that if it's down the line enough you ain't related anymore

[spare pendant]

First sinner isn't act 3 but maybe her?

[muted lantern]

considering shes a spider, its not impossible she ate him

[modern bay]

That's... Not how it works

[vocal kraken]

oh yeah first sinner

[muted lantern]

Uhhh what?

[vocal kraken]

why is first sinner there and why is she attacking hornet when weavers were the one that taught hornet

[somber storm]

weavers are regular bugs transformed by gms

[spare pendant]

That's only true if you're using like, the blood quantum test. As long as you're down the lineage you're a descendent.

[white panther]

Nah, PK was just a one time thing. Hit and run type of deal

[muted lantern]

first sinner didn't know hornet she was imprisoned way before, she was either testing hornet or was completly nuts from being in turbo prison for eternity

[vocal kraken]

what is the lore behind first sinner

[wanton epoch]

Remember that one cutscene in the first sinner fight

[modern bay]

They sinned first

[muted lantern]

PK did NOT like herrah very much, the feeling was mutual, i imagine the situation in bed was, comical at the least

[spare pendant]

She was locked away for turning against the grand mother. Other weavers eventually followed, but many were killed rather than sealed.

[vocal kraken]

she mustve seen the weaver skills she did on the fight then

[modern bay]

I imagine she was sealed due to her power?

[high bane]

Her sin was "Apostasy", leaving a religion.

[wanton epoch]

Wait I think I missed it why is widow doing what she’s doing again

[white panther]

afaik Herrah was from a lower cast and married a King of the Spiders or something. He died and now she is the ruler

[spare pendant]

She's about as strong as Widow would be if her silk wasn't bound

[vocal kraken]

probably went insane

also she is a weaver but her mask taken and her silk spawners pierced

[high bane]

She's a fanatic; the one Weaver still loyal to Grand Mother Silk.

[wanton epoch]

So who put them needles in her back

[modern bay]

And that's powerful? I don't really have a frame of reference

[spare pendant]

That seems to be average for weavers

[modern bay]

Gotcha

[high bane]

Either the other Weavers or the Citadel.

[vocal kraken]

gotta be pilby

[white panther]

she is controlling a huge amount of creatures with her silk

[spare pendant]

The only other weavers we see are weaverden weaver (no known feats) and herrah (special exception)

And of course hornet, a half wyrm

[muted lantern]

heres the real debate, is bell beast more dog coded or cat coded?

[naive crag]

dog

[spare pendant]

Both

[white panther]

dog ofc

[modern bay]

Yeah I got that much, I wasn't sure what the powerscaling was in terms of "can I beat this woman in a fistfight" vs. "oh goodness I may need a cell I do not wish to catch hands"

[vocal kraken]

neither

[high bane]

Dog, way too affectionate to be a cat.

[vocal kraken]

imagine we get a video where the widow and first sinner beefing

[white panther]

and i go deeper and say its Retriever coded

[spare pendant]

She purrs and coos like a cat but acts like a dog

[wanton epoch]

Does anyone know wtf the snare even was and why they needed the souls?

[vocal kraken]

she gets annoyed like a cat tho

[naive crag]

a cat wouldnt defend you if youre getting jumped

[modern bay]

Or widow and first sinner kissing...

[somber storm]

who's Eva

[vocal kraken]

shut up dork

[cursive sinew]

Real ones know that its bug coded

[naive crag]

not annoyed they said its like petting for her

[wanton epoch]

I think she’s a failed attempt at creating silk life by the weavers

[vocal kraken]

no i mean when she wiggles left and right

[spare pendant]

It was a trap which would bind the grand mother to the void. Soul is obviously just used for snail magic in general

[austere coral]

is Herrah any more powerful than a normal weaver? Ik she’s a ”beast” or whatever but that’s compared to pale king, I mean she is the queen of Deepnest

[naive crag]

thats what im saying shes happy about it

[wanton epoch]

How did they even have access to void?

[quick cairn]

I might've been confusing descendancy and family

[spare pendant]

Maybe because the pharloom weavers had previously studied the void

[white panther]

to be fair weavers are not fight centric at all, they control, they build, they thread, the power scale here is considering what they are made to be. Widow is controlling a LOT of things when we arrive, and she can even hold us for a few seconds (if you sleep on the bench)

[cursive sinew]

I kinda wonder if the weavers could stop the Radiance

[spare pendant]

they literally failed wdym

[white panther]

wasnt that a huge problem for them before HK?

[cursive sinew]

I do not know

[naive crag]

if they could then herrah wouldnt have to be a dreamer

[white panther]

the Dream world is beyond the weaver's knowledge and domain

[vocal kraken]

oh wait first sinner was a weaver but was a normal bug thatgot turned into a weaver by granny silk

other weavers dont have a crack on their head but first sinner does when she was born and when we fight her

[spare pendant]

the Radiance exists in the dream world and weavers are powerless when it comes to dreams

[somber storm]

herrah didn't have to be a dreamer, she only did it to bang Wyrm

[austere coral]

no, definitely not. Or maybe they were involved in the seals of binding for the black egg and HK, but the only thing that could ’stop’ the radiance was void

[spare pendant]

only the moths can enter dreams

and they were loyal to the radiance

[white panther]

Herrah was chosen, afaik, due to the kingdom around her, not bcs weavers are amazing with Dream stuff

[naive crag]

my point is that if they couldve stopped radiance in other way then they wouldve done that instead why kill herself

[somber storm]

to get a daughter

[spare pendant]

she was a brood mother

[modern bay]

Yeah that was the main reason I was wondering if they sealed her because they didn't want to fight her or because they didn't want to kill her

[white panther]

Herrah and Silk are similar in that sense, doing crazy stuff to get a daughter

[somber storm]

they could've just left hallownest

[quick cairn]

Didnt moths abandon Radiance in the end for the sake of PK?

[vocal kraken]

yeah they couldnt because knight was the only one that encountered the moth and learned how to enter dreams

[vocal kraken]

infection couldve spread to pharloom

[austere coral]

they did

[indigo wraith]

I did some pixel calculations on the sizes of the corridors in Hallownest and Pharloom, and made a comparison image across both maps to correct scale, Pharloom is absolutely gigantic

[white panther]

some did, give me a second

[spare pendant]

The weavers of hallownest fled elsewhere

[vocal kraken]

although the weavers left hallownest once the littlest signs of the infecton occured

[high bane]

Great Mother Silk is called the "source of all silk" so killing her would definitely have had consequences.

[naive crag]

its easier to navigate tho

[spare pendant]

She is the first source, but the weavers produce their own silk

[austere coral]

OMG, this is awesome. Thank you! And yea Pharloom is so big

[spare pendant]

pharloom is also like twice this size when you account for act 3

[austere coral]

you also notice the rooms are less clumped and stuff to accomodate hornet being bigger and more mobile

[naive crag]

man the hollow knight world feels so lifeless after seeing pharloom

[white panther]

This is from Weaversong

[quick cairn]

Well it was a dead kingdom, so that was the point

[spare pendant]

it is lifeless lol

[naive crag]

well yeah thats what im saying

[spare pendant]

I wonder what the weaverlings are

[vocal kraken]

hollow knight was literally to save or preserve a dying kingdom

[spare pendant]

Maybe the children that were left behind

[quick cairn]

There are weaverlings in HK1

Corrupted

[spare pendant]

I know

[vocal kraken]

where was the pale court before it was put into a dream

[spare pendant]

Ancient basin

[vocal kraken]

but then why is the pale court map way bigger than basin

[quick cairn]

Dream innit

[spare pendant]

Because ancient basin is way bigger than just the parts we explore

That goes for every map

[vocal kraken]

ii wonder whats outside both kingdoms

is there every like a sky for the hk world

[oak helm]

wasteland

[spare pendant]

The wastelands

[vocal kraken]

or are they just deep underground

[quick cairn]

City of tears is actually gigantic and we just explore a small portion of it

[spare pendant]

Filled with various colonies

[spare pendant]

The whole thing is underground yes

[vocal kraken]

so theres no like good place for bugs in the world of hollowknight except for halfway home and pilgrims rest

[spare pendant]

No, there are other colonies and stuff

[vocal kraken]

i wonder if any bug has reached the outside of the underground

[austere coral]

I don’t think even the highest points of both are on the surface, maybe howling cliffs is close but yea still underground

[vocal kraken]

huh

[spare pendant]

Mantis village existed before hallownest did, and Shakra came from a village in the wastelands

[indigo wraith]

You can literally climb to the surface of pharloom and find bugs up there

[vocal kraken]

wtf is the wastelands

[quick cairn]

Quirrel was traveling the wastelands

[vocal kraken]

u mean songclave

man i want a quirrel hollow knight

[white panther]

Question, what do the peregrines want? i know they are trying to reach the citadel but to do what there?

[spare pendant]

the place between civilizations

[indigo wraith]

No i mean literally the surface, by going even further up from the cradle

[vocal kraken]

there are no bugs in the very top aka the gm silk boss area bro

[austere coral]

the area outside Pharloom/Hallownest, it’s implied it’s almost exclusively wasteland with next to nothing of note in it, maybe small colonies or lone bugs living off of instinct

[spare pendant]

mmm no there are probably other kingdoms

[vocal kraken]

like where the grimm troupe came from

since they thrive in dead kingdoms they must have originated from somewhere

[austere coral]

oh yea definitely, but they’re sparse

[naive crag]

they believe its a sacred place

[spare pendant]

grimm troupe and herald both imply having visited countless kingdoms before now

[wanton epoch]

Is the world of HK only bugs?

[spare pendant]

we literally see non bugs

[wanton epoch]

Huh really

[vocal kraken]

imagine outside hollowknight is jsut the human world

[naive crag]

theres a frog for example i cant remember more rn

[spare pendant]

like the mushrooms

and groal

[wanton epoch]

Oh yeah

[white panther]

we have fishes, frogs, mushrooms

[austere coral]

no

[wanton epoch]

Wait groal isn’t a fat fly?

[naive crag]

a frog

[wanton epoch]

Oops

[austere coral]

but everything we see is at least on the scale of the bugs

[wanton epoch]

Oh shit are the craws actually birds 😭

[quick cairn]

Wait Groal is actually a frog ???? Even tho he has wings and shit ?

[spare pendant]

they're crawbugs

[spare pendant]

actually maybe not ....

[wanton epoch]

Aren’t those lobsters

[naive crag]

good question tbh

[spare pendant]

unrelated to lobsters

[naive crag]

theres really small frogs irl so he COULD be a frog but idk

[spare pendant]

those are crawfish

[white panther]

ye but what they want there? just to look around and go home?

[naive crag]

what do you think peregrine means

[quick cairn]

Nah he's a fat fly, no frog has 6 legs

[wanton epoch]

Yeah I think a frog would be too big anyway

Actually wait frogs can be small nvm

[naive crag]

pilgrims are basically religious people who go journey to sacred places

[quick cairn]

Ye a frog would be bigger than Wyrm if we go by the proportions

[spare pendant]

but yeah there are mushrooms, constructs, void creatures, wyrms, roots, and more

[lunar vapor]

Maybe he swelled up like the Soul Master

[quick cairn]

He did steal a soul of a snail

[spare pendant]

are soul scholars frogs?

[naive crag]

makes sense hes a fly too since theres so many maggots

[white panther]

someone travelling on a pilgrimage, religious or not, but they have a goal i suppose. The ones we see dont seem like full religious fanatics to just blindly go there i guess

[wanton epoch]

Oh yeah what even is the soul master

What kinda bug is that

[quick cairn]

Nah they are just bugs, frogs would be too big

[lunar vapor]

Bug type

[naive crag]

are the bugs bug sized or big

since theres ants for the ants in hunters march

but then some use pins as weapons so theyre small i guess

[true spear]

big for ants

[wanton epoch]

For scale I’m imagining fourth chorus as like an action figure

[real crater]

Bug sized I think cause the scissors are scaled accordingly

[naive crag]

what is the mount fay thing

[spare pendant]

Hk bugs are not scaled like real bugs

[true spear]

still big bugs

[gray token]

It would be mound fay for humans ig

[white panther]

such a huge conflict with such small creatures

[quick cairn]

Yes but then what frog has 6 legs and wings

[spare pendant]

I was talking about soul scholars, which I'm pretty sure are actually nondescript beetles

[quick cairn]

I was thinking whether they could be a pill bug

But beetle probably fits better

[olive glen]

Most HK creatures tend to be bugs who have evolved to look like other animals

[naive crag]

i meant the bird that gives you the wings

[quick cairn]

True

[wanton epoch]

I think it might actually be a bird

[spare pendant]

also coral is alive

[wanton epoch]

Actually the eyes are kinda weird

Maybe it’s a moth of some sort?

[naive crag]

its fluffy tho

it doesnt have feathers it has fur

[teal shell]

in a setting where grass and coral can move around and live, resembling a bug, i dont think its too far to say a bug can resemble a bird

[wanton epoch]

Yknow what I reckon it’s a moth

[teal shell]

its probably some kind of moth

[white panther]

the ones that drank toxic herbicide water

[spare pendant]

moth seems unlikely since radiance created all the other moths we see, but maybe

[teal shell]

does it say radiance made all the moths or just the moth tribe moths

[true spear]

sparrow

moth tribe

[spare pendant]

just the moth tribe

[teal shell]

yeah so its probably just a random moth then

[spare pendant]

it's not impossible, just seems unlikely

[true spear]

coral IS alive in our world

[quick cairn]

ye like what the heck is this

[spare pendant]

yes I know

[white panther]

Bord

[teal shell]

definitely not a bird

[wanton epoch]

Is that a beak or ears

[true spear]

sparrow

[quick cairn]

ye I agree with this

[wanton epoch]

Like is it facing the sky or is it looking away from us

[teal shell]

i really just think its a weird bug that the devs made up

[spare pendant]

it is looking at you

[quick cairn]

but then what is this even supposed to be, what kind of bug

[wanton epoch]

I don’t see it

[quick cairn]

at us

[wanton epoch]

Ohhh I see it

[quick cairn]

yeee

[wanton epoch]

wtf is on its head

[quick cairn]

horns or anteenes

[naive crag]

it has a bug body beneath the fur

[quick cairn]

I spelled that wrong

[wanton epoch]

Oh Yknow what this fella is def a moth

[spare pendant]

hmm hollow knight just seems to have any creatures that aren't like, fleshy

[teal shell]

there arent many fuzzy bugs its between mainly moths and bees

[spare pendant]

plants, fungi, bugs, fantasy critters

[modern bay]

I think they just want to make cool looking creatures that are also bugs

[teal shell]

and its definitely not a bee

[quick cairn]

maybe it's a type of butterfly/moth

[wanton epoch]

Yeah like the giant rats

[spare pendant]

rats?

[quick cairn]

like a beast butterfly/moth not the civilized one

[teal shell]

its probably a winter moth

[spare pendant]

sinners road enemies are roaches not rats

[wanton epoch]

In greymoore

[quick cairn]

well they aren't rats just bugs that look like rats to us players

[spare pendant]

those are mites

[naive crag]

what makes some bugs smart and others not? in hk i remember it being the pale king that makes them smart

[wanton epoch]

Damn really

[naive crag]

some just act like animals

[spiral swift]

I mean all the moths we know of were made with sentient

[gray token]

I mean like the bugs in craw lake are just bug versions of crows. With the beaks and noises they make n all.

[quick cairn]

also shocker that crocodile enemy isn't a crocodile

[teal shell]

claw lake bugs look like mosquitoes if i had to guess for them

[spare pendant]

The pale king specifically only gives mind to those who lacked it. It's like how humans are sapient when some mammals aren't.

[wanton epoch]

Apparently they’re crawbugs or somethin

I don’t really see it tho

[naive crag]

thats what i meant

why are some bugs savage and others sapient

[teal shell]

i assumed mosquito or fly because of the “beak”

[spare pendant]

it's a fictional bug they made lol

crawbugs are based on crows

[quick cairn]

they could be a crawbug just for a pun craw sounds like crow

[wanton epoch]

ohhhh u mean like crawbugs in the game not crawbugs IRL

[spare pendant]

there aren't crawbugs irl

[wanton epoch]

My bad twin didn’t realise what u meant

[true spear]

I knew i couldnt have been the only one who thought that

[spare pendant]

you're thinking of crawfish (like lobsters)

[wanton epoch]

Oh shit

[drowsy mortar]

Apparently Hornet can overdose on Lifeblood?

[spare pendant]

yeah like everything else in wormways lol

[wanton epoch]

Yeah all the masks turn blue

Lifeblood is like a mini-infection I think

[true spear]

how

[drowsy mortar]

So is this confirmation that this is like mutated lifeblood? Or does it just affect her differently than the Knight?

[spare pendant]

It's possibly similar but not quite the same thing

[wanton epoch]

I assumed the knight can take it because he’s good

[drowsy mortar]

It corrupts all your masks turning them to lifeblood

[wanton epoch]

Void

[spare pendant]

the Knight was a void entity which isnt quite the same lol

[high bane]

Overuse the Lifeblood injector and then double up on it with the Architect's Crest

[drowsy mortar]

Then you can’t heal, you just regen masks slowly

[true spear]

oh ok

[quick cairn]

Hornet is like half vessel half weaver while Knight was void contained in a vessel

[drowsy mortar]

Weird

[spiral swift]

You can't be half vessel lol she's half wyrm

[spare pendant]

hornet is not half vessel

[quick cairn]

Actually true, I'm spreading misinformation

[drowsy mortar]

Vessels are void beings which Hornet very expressly is not

[gray token]

I mean we have mosquitoes in bilewaters

[teal shell]

vessels are just the children of root and wyrm left to hatch in the void

[naive crag]

the slab bugs are mosquitoes

[spare pendant]

the vessels are organic constructs made by the white lady and pale king. void beings (shades) are technically separate and animate the vessels

[naive crag]

are they not

[teal shell]

hornet is just a creature

[wanton epoch]

Fuck those guys omd

[drowsy mortar]

Flies actually

[true spear]

[quick cairn]

Flies

[wanton epoch]

The ones in putrified ducts especially

[teal shell]

can we just blow up whoever decided putrified ducts and bilewater was okay

[gray token]

I thought the prison people were flies.

[teal shell]

but not the water area

[drowsy mortar]

I dunno if I’d consider them wholly separate since the shade is also created at the time of birth

[spare pendant]

half life barnacles my beloved

[gray token]

Real

[teal shell]

i hate them i hate them i hate them i hate them

[frozen shell]

Skin whoever made groad

[naive crag]

is bell eater a centipede

[teal shell]

i wouldnt go that far

[wanton epoch]

Call me crazy Bilewater not that bad

[spare pendant]

yea

[quick cairn]

Yes

[wanton epoch]

There’s a lot of silk to farm

[drowsy mortar]

Putrid at least doesn’t require a huge amount of poking around

[spare pendant]

centipedes are predators to insects

[teal shell]

its not awful i jyst wish there was an extra bench or 2

[spare pendant]

bilewater is fine groal just sucks

[drowsy mortar]

However the designer behind Groal was just a masochist

[wanton epoch]

Yeah true that

That fake bench made me so angry

[teal shell]

fake bench with no replacement

[quick cairn]

I've 2nd tried Groal but it is bad, enemies are just awful same goes for the gimmick of the map

[spare pendant]

wdym there is an extra bench, just dont break it?

[drowsy mortar]

Only if you have Wreath and the secret bench by the boss

[teal shell]

ill get whoever did this.

[spare pendant]

why does everyone break the bench lol

[drowsy mortar]

The replacement is to the right

[wanton epoch]

Yeah I just ended up spamming 1000 poison tools in his face

[teal shell]

theres a replacement

[drowsy mortar]

Yup

[spare pendant]

i just didnt break it

[naive crag]

because we didnt know

[quick cairn]

You can sit on that bench without breaking it what ?

[wanton epoch]

Wdym it breaks when u sit on it

[teal shell]

are u talking about the one w the weird jump to not get maggoted

[spare pendant]

...y'all need to exercise more

[drowsy mortar]

Different bench

[teal shell]

stop fatshaming my hornet

[drowsy mortar]

He means the one in the upper left

[teal shell]

shes big boned okay

[wanton epoch]

Isn’t that the only one that can break

[drowsy mortar]

Correct

[wanton epoch]

Wat

[teal shell]

im lost

[drowsy mortar]

There is one in Sinner’s Road that is “stuck”

[fervent shoal]

I found some rusty pilgrim statue talking about grim and idk what thats bout

[wanton epoch]

I thought we were talking about bilewater

[teal shell]

huh

[true spear]

wow

[teal shell]

yeah so did i

[naive crag]

she got confused becuse she thought bobfrey didnt know about the bench thanks to wording

[drowsy mortar]

Yeah Bilewater only has one breakable bench

[teal shell]

yeah we know that part

[drowsy mortar]

The real one to replace it is up by Groal’s arena to the top right

[spare pendant]

oh I was just gaslighting you about the bench I don't know what they're talking about

[teal shell]

you fatshamed my hornet

[wanton epoch]

look what youve done

[drowsy mortar]

I’m actually being serious there is a bench right next to Groal lol

[naive crag]

tbh hornet is so skinny compared to everyone else

[teal shell]

you will perish, my hornet is big boned.

[naive crag]

shes skinny and short who else is that

[wanton epoch]

huh

[teal shell]

the vessels are so rotund under the cloak

full of void

[drowsy mortar]

It’s behind a hidden wall you need to get mucked to find but it’s there

[wanton epoch]

u mean the one down there?

[naive crag]

we know

[teal shell]

are you talking about the one u need to wall jump out of to get out

[drowsy mortar]

Yes

[teal shell]

bc that ones still not great

[wanton epoch]

thats pretty far

[naive crag]

''to the right of groal'' and its 200km away

[drowsy mortar]

It’s perfectly fine if you have wreath

[frozen shell]

And those dumb needle dudes fill the way there

[wanton epoch]

its like by far the furthest runback in the game

[teal shell]

its not even the distance its thats its annoying to get back to groal without being hit or getting maggotted

[wanton epoch]

isnt wreath in putrified ducts or am i misremembering

[drowsy mortar]

Ehh, path to the right of the bench with Wreath

[naive crag]

what annoys me is the gauntlet

[drowsy mortar]

Correct

[naive crag]

that runback has EVERYTHING a runback could have

[teal shell]

what is wreath

[naive crag]

anti maggot charm

[wanton epoch]

i thought u had to go through bilewater to get to ducts tho?

is there another path i missed

[drowsy mortar]

Tool to temporarily make you immune to maggots

[naive crag]

you can access through memorium

[drowsy mortar]

Nope, you access via Citadel

[teal shell]

thats stupid you get to bilewater first usually

since its part of a questline

[spare pendant]

I fucking hate how esoteric these three areas are grrr

[teal shell]

and putrified is weird to get to

[spare pendant]

purified ducts, bilewater, and the mist are stupidly esoteric

[wanton epoch]

oh wait i think i found that after i finished bilewater

[drowsy mortar]

The Citadel entrance is also right by the Bellway

[naive crag]

sameee

[drowsy mortar]

Mist is gimmicky but fine

[naive crag]

its like they give it to you right after you dont need to go through maggots ever again

[teal shell]

the maggot charm shouldve just been in bilewater

[wanton epoch]

mist is fun ngl i like the enemies

[spare pendant]

i also mean just to find them

[drowsy mortar]

The moment you learn about the flies it’s basically over

[wanton epoch]

yeah by the time i found it i dont need it anymore

[teal shell]

put it right before groal so it makes the runback easy

[drowsy mortar]

This I do agree

[teal shell]

you get rewarded for getting there but you dont get bent over for dying to groal mearly as hard

[bronze hemlock]

Weird that you're required to have double jump to get anti maggot tool.

[naive crag]

isnt mist basically a rng hell for speedrunners

[teal shell]

probably

[drowsy mortar]

Essentially yes

[fathom zenith]

Hey guys what do we know about the weavers' origins rn?

[bronze hemlock]

Technically you can just use needolin but that's slow as fuck.

[teal shell]

theres prob gonna be a set seed mod for it at some point id imagine

[wanton epoch]

do u actually need to go through mist tho

[quick cairn]

Daft question how many legs do Weavers have ?

[cosmic light]

Is ||Nameless Town|| what I think it is?

[bronze hemlock]

It's the fastest route.

[wanton epoch]

its just for phantom right

[teal shell]

i think you do

[open dragon]

Its sad to think that Hornet once wanted to confront the source of the silk but ended up falling for the trap and ends being the new goddess of silk

[teal shell]

what do you think it is

[bronze hemlock]

Last Judge route is slower.

[naive crag]

phantom is fastest way to get to act 2 instead of last judge

[wanton epoch]

damn what you can go through mist for act 2???

[bronze hemlock]

Yes.

[wanton epoch]

wtf this game is crazy

[bronze hemlock]

It even has its own cutscene.

[wanton epoch]

what happens to last judge if u take that route?

[spark valve]

phantom is I believe faster to reach and puts you in a better spot in citadel at start of act 2

[naive crag]

it stays there you can do both

[bronze hemlock]

Still there.

[teal shell]

last judge runback is easy for the record because im seeing people on the socials complain about it heavy

[cosmic light]

For some reason the ||ground and Skrills remind me of Dirtmouth||, but there's no way

[naive crag]

no need for spoilers in this channel

[wanton epoch]

its hard at first but once u learn it its actually pretty fun

[bronze hemlock]

You still need harpoon for high halls right?

[teal shell]

well it cant be dirtmouth can it

[wanton epoch]

yeah

[bronze hemlock]

I forget.

But you can beat the game without double jump.

[teal shell]

last i checked dirtmouth was above crossroads and not on the surface

[bronze hemlock]

Any%

[spare pendant]

that's what i did

[cosmic light]

Yea, almost sure it can't but still it reminds me "Dirtmouth years later", as we don't know how long passed since first game

[spare pendant]

I didn't even believe it existed until I got it

[teal shell]

i think its just a generic town lost to time as tends to happen

dirtmouth is probably pretty basic for bug towns

[spare pendant]

pharloom is far away from hallownest

[bronze hemlock]

Return to Hallownest dlc would be cool but I think I'd rather explore Pharloom more.

[teal shell]

it was hard for the first few runbacks but it takes like less than a min and its easy to avoid everything, its nothing compared to groal

[wanton epoch]

yeah groal is by far the worst one

[teal shell]

places can still develop to look similar despite no interaction with eachother

[wanton epoch]

but honestly none of them compare to soul sanctum runback

[naive crag]

the worst runback is coral tower

the hive runback is the longest one

[teal shell]

shortcut for coral tower

[modern bay]

At the very start of the game it shows Hornet being carried very far away as well

[bronze hemlock]

The fact you pretty much have to get into the maggots to unlock the secret bilewater bench sucks.

[wanton epoch]

u can break a shortcut

[open dragon]

How far is Pharloom from Hallownest? Must've took the Citadel bugs probably like weeks

[naive crag]

you still have to do the third one

[spare pendant]

what about this bullshit

[wanton epoch]

not that bad tbh

[spare pendant]

you do all of path of pain just to fight this

[naive crag]

abs rad runback is the worst one

[modern bay]

You can use the spear shot to dash over it

[wanton epoch]

coral tower enemies were kind of easy

[bronze hemlock]

Dying here should reset your game file.

[wanton epoch]

i think i would rather die than attempt this

[bronze hemlock]

IMO.

[modern bay]

LMAO

[wanton epoch]

actually is PV really that bad

[teal shell]

i could no diff pure vessel bc im him

[modern bay]

Path of pain isn't that bad

[teal shell]

my knight looks at me and smiles because they know im the goat

[wanton epoch]

actually nah i'd get cooked bcs my charms for path of pain would screw me up for the fight

[spare pendant]

absrad is definitely the worst runback

[round stratus]

-# possibly please don't spoil me with some image

Is there actually "good" ending in silksong, unlike base HK where knight dies/be sealed/loses mask stuff in every ending

[modern bay]

Pure Vessel hurts

[open dragon]

So Bilewater is a result of just the Citadel being so deglectful of its surroundings and even the residents down at Bilewater utterly hate them for it

[bronze hemlock]

Hornet would make POP like 10x easier.

[spare pendant]

there are good endings in both

[naive crag]

yes

[wanton epoch]

hes probably the second most learnable boss tho

[bronze hemlock]

Harpoon is so broken.

[modern bay]

Technically yeah

[wanton epoch]

behind NKG

[round stratus]

I mean dream no more

[spare pendant]

silksong endings are less bleak than hollow knight

[round stratus]

is sort of "best"

[modern bay]

He's very learnable but very punishing

[round stratus]

Personally I prefer protagonist not dying after ending

[naive crag]

hollow knight is just depressing all around

[wanton epoch]

except the world is still in hell after the true ending 😔

[naive crag]

i mean the kingdom is already dead anyways

[round stratus]

ah good

[spare pendant]

true ending isn't really a correct term anyway, every ending is canon in both games

[modern bay]

I mean the whole fucking kingdom exploded

[wanton epoch]

yeah once u make a mistake u get comboed hard

[round stratus]

Yeah, too late to be rescued

It is already mostly fully cursed

[wanton epoch]

even SS?

[naive crag]

what i dont like about silksong though is they kill every lovable npc

[spare pendant]

it wasn't explicitly stated but there's no reason to believe it's any different

[naive crag]

most of them not every

[bronze hemlock]

Everyone should just live happily ever after in Fleatopia.

[modern bay]

I love this about Silksong

[wanton epoch]

and no way delicate flower embrace the void works either right

[frozen shell]

Sherma, Shakra, The fleas

[naive crag]

i still hold onto my hornet stattuete

[modern bay]

More loveable character deaths...

[spare pendant]

they are all canon, just some of them don't lead to silksong

[wanton epoch]

same never forget

[round stratus]

true

[spare pendant]

oh by ss you meant sealed siblings lmao

[wanton epoch]

yeah

[spare pendant]

yes ss is canon, just not to silksong

[modern bay]

I thought you meant Silksong too ngl

[wanton epoch]

but isnt silksong canon

[round stratus]

I personally think embrace the void with flower leads to skong

[modern bay]

It's canon to one ending

[spare pendant]

hk is a branching canon

[wanton epoch]

wat that mean

[spare pendant]

silksong follows just one ending

[modern bay]

Think of like Legend of Zelda

[naive crag]

what does the flower do in the godhome ending anyways

[spare pendant]

or, maybe two endings

[wanton epoch]

ohh wait i get it

[naive crag]

does it vanish it completely does it take the void back what exactly

[wanton epoch]

i thought it evaporated the void

[bronze hemlock]

Silksong is a fever dream Hornet has the whole time in Sealed Siblings dummies. Smh.

[vague timber]

the everbloom cleansed the void

[round stratus]

Lmfao

[bronze hemlock]

Pharloom isn't real.

[spare pendant]

"it was all a dream" theory final boss

[round stratus]

So cursed ending will be true ending in skong-

-# (because hornet will die anyways in ss)

[wanton epoch]

is there a lore reason to why seth is so fucking good at the minigames

[bronze hemlock]

Huh?

Seth?

[wanton epoch]

Yknow Seth Rogan

[bronze hemlock]

Ah. True.

[naive crag]

seth is a tribute boss so probably that

just why not

[wanton epoch]

Like how did this guy score 90

[open dragon]

Y'know, i really like that Pharloom has a more religious and industrial and machinary theme to it whereas Hallownest is more mystical, more dreams and magic focus and white knights

[spare pendant]

am i the only one who finds higher being lore to be the most interesting worldbuilding in the series

like I could write an entire essay about it

[wanton epoch]

very true

[naive crag]

i wish we knew more about higher beings

[open dragon]

Of course theres also a main difference between Pharloom and Hallownest, Pharloom is at least still kicking but barely, Hallownest is just...fucking dead lmao

[naive crag]

everything is so vague even the classification

[wanton epoch]

although hallownest also has that machinery aspect in crystal peaks and arguably the hive

[spare pendant]

id argue lord fool is a higher being (wyrm) and i once thought vespa was one but i think that's incorrect

vespa is just big

[naive crag]

i wonder if hallownest would look more lively or lifeless if they had more money

like its all dead when u play after silksong but ofc its intended

just to what point

[spare pendant]

Vespa does fit the classifications though — monarch, created her own people, absolutely fucking massive

a lot more than herald does

[open dragon]

Guess Vespa has been eating her wheaties

[spiral swift]

I mean we have 0 evidence lord fool is one

[wanton epoch]

I mean they weren’t broke they all just got plagued

[spare pendant]

except that he's a wyrm

[naive crag]

i mean tc

they had a lot of limitations on their budget when they released hk

[open dragon]

I mean in the City of Tears, we see residents and rich folks having money, but thats not gonna save them from one moth lmao

[wanton epoch]

Ohhh lol

[spiral swift]

No he's not?

[wanton epoch]

Probably a lot more sinister

Wasn’t the abyss going to be a lot bigger

[spare pendant]

yes he is? the colosseum is in a wyrm shell and he looks the same as pale king, who also cast off his shell

[open dragon]

I read somewhere(?) that the void was gonna be bigger yeahh

[spare pendant]

in old Kickstarter goals that weren't met

[open dragon]

Like you know where the void lake with the lighthouse?

Apparently we could've swim in the lake and fight new void bosses

[spiral swift]

It's literally not a wyrm though, if it was a wyrm there'd be more stuff around. Plus iirc the colosseum has limbs

[spare pendant]

it doesn't and what do you mean

there's nothing around the cast off shell either

[open dragon]

So the giant body the colosseum used is not a wyrm?

[naive crag]

do we have an actual defintion of what a higher being is or do we just look for similarities

[spare pendant]

it's very obviously a wyrm

[spare pendant]

we do not, we just have patterns

[distant briar]

my guy I think mossbag made a video on why it’s in fact not a wyrm and his arguments are kinda overwhelming

[spare pendant]

mossbag is entitled to his opinions but i havent seen anything convincing to suggest otherwise

[naive crag]

why do you treat mossbag theories as a fact anyways

at some point he just said anything to see if it landed

[spiral swift]

1. Colo isn't big enough to be a wyrm
2. Wyrms make kingdoms, lord fool didn't
3. Bardoon doesn't even comment on the colosseum, which he would if it were a wyrm

[spare pendant]

...Exactly one wyrm has made a kingdom, and he probably would've crashed out if another wyrm tried to make it right next to hallownest lol

[spiral swift]

Wyrm nature is to make kingdoms

[blissful canyon]

guys does this have something to do with the radiance infection?

[naive crag]

snail shaman and hornet say wyrm instinct is to rule

[spare pendant]

It's flintstone

[spare pendant]

He does rule over the colosseum, which seems to be completely independent of hallownest

[blissful canyon]

so pharloom has no signs of the infection?

[spare pendant]

Correct

[blissful canyon]

maybe because it got contained?

[spiral swift]

Wyrms literally set up and run kingdoms if the lord fool was a wyrm he'd do more than colo