sk-lore

[sinful nimbus]

How would the citadel capture Hornet at her prime

[dim inlet]

It literally is

[craggy smelt]

magic

[sinful nimbus]

She has more magic

[dim inlet]

Idk dude how do you have more than 1 death in the game /s

[sinful nimbus]

The only viable explanation for her capture is that she was already incapacitated in Sealed Siblings

[whole pier]

I mean, little, hollow and hornet are all child of wyrm, so potential was always there.

[craggy smelt]

also I'd say Hornet at the end of SS is more powerful than she was in the first game

[whole holly]

is Palestag actually pale being? what is it attributed to?

[dim inlet]

Hornet at the end of silksong is infinitely stronger than hornet at the end of HK. Hornet was already going to Pharloom, it makes sense she could be jumped by an entire gang in unfamiliar lands

[craggy smelt]

she was?

[dim inlet]

Consider that GMS captured every weaver in SS.

[sinful nimbus]

She is way stronger than the caste

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah but how

[craggy smelt]

green prince calls it 'pale touched'

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet can kill caste like its nothing while she's weakened

How would she be captured by them when she was at regular performance

[dim inlet]

Idk dude but she did. It makes sense she could capture hornet

[whole pier]

I believe there is voice line where Hornet says she is diminished from the capture by the Citadel bugs, not before.

[whole holly]

nothing else releated to that? what does journal entry say?

[sinful nimbus]

How did they diminish her with the cage before she killed them all

[tawdry flare]

Really? All I hear from Hornet is “EIRA!” and “Thasfye”

[whole pier]

Same ways they captured all other weavers before her i guess?

[sinful nimbus]

She's stronger than the average weaver

[dim inlet]

Obviously not twin

[sinful nimbus]

Those weavers could also be incapacitated

[whole pier]

And that's why she had power to escape in the end?

[craggy smelt]

I'd have to dig it out. But if certain things can be 'pale touched' it might imply just that it has some of their power, rather than being a true pale being
which might also explain the power of items like pale ore and pale oil - possibly also pale touched

[dim inlet]

And hornet too

[sinful nimbus]

She is though? She kills all hostile weavers

[dim inlet]

Spiders =/= weavers

[tawdry flare]

The Weavers could also be infected and Hornet can’t so she’s superior

[sinful nimbus]

I am not confusing the two

Hornet fights multiple weavers on her journey in Pharloom

[woven vine]

Looks like they caught her off guard with silk-sealing spell.

[obsidian quail]

i was thinking like you, like how did they manage to capture the First Sinner

[dim inlet]

???

[obsidian quail]

she has to be THK tier

who managed to pull that off

[tawdry flare]

Widow and First Sinner

[sinful nimbus]

Widow and First Sinner

[obsidian quail]

these are rarely powerful beings

[dim inlet]

I think that this is something we shouldn't care about how, but rather that it just did happen

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet is also a demigod she's obviously stronger

[whole holly]

i believe Pale beings are above Higher beings, partly because Higher Beings tend to be different colors, Nightmare heart, unn and because white/pale covers more color spectrum and are usually incredibly strong: WL PK and GMS

[sinful nimbus]

It did happen, and the "how" is that Sealed Siblings is the canon ending

[austere coral]

yea, and I mean her being part wyrm and all her training kinda makes it obvious she’s stronger than weavers

[dim inlet]

This dude 💔

[obsidian quail]

who the hell managed to capture the First Sinner, did u see what she was pulling out??

[sinful nimbus]

I'm not saying it didn't happen I'm just giving an explanation for how it happened

[dim inlet]

Ragebait or catastrophic failure of reading comprehension

[obsidian quail]

i think First Sinner and Pure Vessel would be a great fight

[tawdry flare]

No she’s got a good point

[craggy smelt]

not really, no

[dim inlet]

Sealed Siblings would ruin EVERYTHING. Hornet would literally have the radiance in her noggin

[green yoke]

I mean when we fought GMS she was super eepy

[sinful nimbus]

No she wouldn't

[woven vine]

By throwing untold numbers of minions at her. Mother silk doesn't look like the caring sort.

[craggy smelt]

lorewise, the Citadel sent a force strong enough to subdue Hornet, that's what happened

[dim inlet]

Ragebait

[tawdry flare]

Catastrophic failure of reading comprehension

[dim inlet]

Exactly

[sinful nimbus]

Me when I can't engage with beliefs counter to my own

[sinful nimbus]

No such force exists, she must've been incapacitated

[whole pier]

First Sinner is amazing example of how weaver that was sealed for ages is still able to fight heavly.

[dim inlet]

Hornet being fucking dead

https://youtu.be/vEpU23XNzu8?si=HJPp3_Xr_sFyDxKQ

[dim inlet]

pushover fight ngl

[sinful nimbus]

Dreamer seals rely on the host being alive

[tawdry flare]

She’s just unconscious

[obsidian quail]

it’s a dumb question but who’s winning First Sinner or Pure Vessel

[dim inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/lie-detectors-from-the-hood-be-like-ofn-on-foenam-he-lyin-peeweepurpdrank-gif-17683837285682387552

[obsidian quail]

i see them as equals

[dim inlet]

Pure vessel

[tawdry flare]

Pure Vessel by far

[sinful nimbus]

Memes aren't allowed

[dim inlet]

No dif

[craggy smelt]

it does exist, they used it to capture Hornet and suppressed her with a magical cage

[green yoke]

I mean at the Cradle you can see what it took to capture 1/8th Weavers and they still took down like a squad each. Imagine what 1/2 Weaver 1/2 Wyrm took to capture

[obsidian quail]

Pure Vessel by far is ridiculous

[sinful nimbus]

Engage with the argument or admit you are wrong

[obsidian quail]

come on

First Sinner is like the Silk version of PV

[dim inlet]

Pure Vessel was the strongest vessel dawg 💔

[green yoke]

Nah she's a Grimm at best. PV is LL in this

[dim inlet]

It lost its power because the pale king was being daddy

[obsidian quail]

we do not know the requirements of a vessel, and First Sinner was a super strong Weaver

[austere coral]

…no? She could definitely be captured or trapped by a strong enough force, at least long enough to do whatever was done to give it some sort of seal of binding and diminish her

[tawdry flare]

She is but like. PV is a demigod who has a much tougher shell and also the void

[green yoke]

Even has scary circle attacks

[dim inlet]

First Sinner in lore is strong but in game is a wuss

[calm wind]

So, were the first weavers the civilization that worshipped the void? Or did they just stumble on it like the pale king?

[craggy smelt]

the latter

[sinful nimbus]

The caste aren't stronger than her, they aren't even stronger than her weakened form

[obsidian quail]

that’s game plot

[obsidian quail]

but First Sinner can heal

[green yoke]

First Sinner when I turn up to the fight dripping with poison, covering the floor in Legos and unleashing my eight fully functional combat automata

[craggy smelt]

hornet can be captured by warden flies, the right circumstances can see her defeated

[tawdry flare]

PV can too, they focus in the middle of the fight they just use it to attack

[sinful nimbus]

That's a failure condition

Its not canon in the same way death isn't canon in HK

[craggy smelt]

I guess she failed at some point then

[obsidian quail]

it seems they were curious about it but it didn’t result in anything

[dim inlet]

Flintslate + Poison + Wanderers is free game

[obsidian quail]

good point

[sinful nimbus]

Unnecessary assumptions

[craggy smelt]

wonk

[green yoke]

Doesn't Hornet outright say they wore her down to capture her anyway

It was not an easy fight

[tawdry flare]

Five. Hundred. Maestros.

[sinful nimbus]

She was incapacitated

[green yoke]

She probably took a lot out

[obsidian quail]

didn’t First Sinner create the silk spells or something?

[calm wind]

Nice, i was really thinking that maybe the snail shaman were the first civ to interact with void and this was bugging me out. Still, we see the snail village on the surface, so maybe not?

[obsidian quail]

not sure how long shamans were in pharloom

or their relation to void civilizations

[craggy smelt]

was that a snail village? I didn't get that impression
but I don't think the snails were part of the AC either, I think they're just mucking around with forbidden powers
the Steel Clan vassals can also summon Void, they aren't obviously AC either

[calm wind]

I mean, the background wete a bubch of snail shells, so maybe?

[obsidian quail]

wait Starpengu what are u guys going back and forth on

how Hornet managed to get captured?

[dim inlet]

If the average noob ss player is any metric, moss mother prob took her down

"This game too hard" dodge????? dodge button??

[obsidian quail]

they probably snuck up on her midnap

[calm wind]

Also, what is the surface? Is it the desert beyond kingdoms or is the desert not the surface? Cuz the howling cliffs look pretty surface to me

[tawdry flare]

Mid Sealed Siblings nap…

[craggy smelt]

they put some food on one of those cage traps

[dim inlet]

I dont think we are supposed to know

[sinful nimbus]

I highly doubt she would let her guard down like that

[dim inlet]

And yet it happened

[sinful nimbus]

Proof?

It takes less assumptions to merely assume Sealed Siblings is the canon ending

[craggy smelt]

I think it's just some expansive cavern wasteland

[sinful nimbus]

This is not proof

[austere coral]

don’t think we’re ever told, howling cliffs could just be a massive hole for all we know

[dim inlet]

Entire game happens cuz she got fucked up by mobs bro

[calm wind]

Does the existence of the radiance mean the bugs have seen the sun?

[obsidian quail]

she let her guard down and got captured and put in slab

[dim inlet]

No

[obsidian quail]

where does it say that Hornet is infallible

[sinful nimbus]

While incapacitated in sealed siblings

[obsidian quail]

she can get caught slipping

[dim inlet]

Not in my game i slimed that dude

[obsidian quail]

the fact that it’s possible means she isn’t infallible

[sinful nimbus]

That's a failure condition comparable to death which makes it probably not canon

[obsidian quail]

also she got baited into a trap by the outcast in far fields

she’s not infallible

[uncut holly]

Hey is this Pett the shopkeeper from Bone Bottom?

[craggy smelt]

I hope not
(no sun, no sky in this world)
(only underground bug kingdoms forever...)

[dim inlet]

You really tryna say that these bugs broke into hallownest, probably hundreds of miles away, went to the black egg, kidnapped the dead bug, revived said bug, didn't even give a fuck about the one hanging in chains AND the corpse next to it, brought it all the way home AND THEN the game starts?

[sinful nimbus]

Even if she was fallible assuming she let her guard down to get captured is unsustantiated

[kind pagoda]

is act 3 good?

[sinful nimbus]

She's not dead

[dim inlet]

Yes

[sinful nimbus]

The Knight isn't a weaver so they'd have no interest in it

[calm wind]

Maybe radiance is just warm

[dim inlet]

💔 post ur hollow knight playtime dude please

Im begging you

[obsidian quail]

aren’t u asking a headcanon question

[craggy smelt]

why are you being like this star

[sinful nimbus]

I have more authority than you.

[obsidian quail]

all we can give is headcanon

[uncut holly]

Ive been looking for where the Bone Bottom Shopkeeper went, any idea where they go?

[dim inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/job-job-application-jobless-gif-2757097081210871087

[sinful nimbus]

Ad hominem

[obsidian quail]

no idea

[blissful harbor]

anyways she’s not dead cause that’s not how dreamer seals work

the seal wouldn’t exist if she was dead

[dim inlet]

2000 hours of not understanding the lore is brutal

[obsidian quail]

wasn’t what u did ad hominem

[uncut holly]

The pill bug thats in the bell way dies and you can find them in Bone Bottom outside the Flea room. I dunno where she goes

[sinful nimbus]

No

[kind pagoda]

no trigger warning

[dim inlet]

Yes

[dim inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/its-rubbish-its-peam-rubbish-its-peak-gif-5313681084982718404

[calm wind]

Can't wait for grimm hungry ahh yo show up at pharloom after it all goes to shit

[sinful nimbus]

They attempted to discredit me and I retaliated by proving my expertise

[green yoke]

Bruh you can make this real easy on yourself

[dim inlet]

Nightmare King Trobbio

[sinful nimbus]

What they did was an ad hominem what I did was merely defending my honor

[obsidian quail]

i’m like i’m pretty sure she just did the exact definition of ad hominem hahaha

[dim inlet]

TRUE! Thanks for the reminder

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway get back to the discussion

[whole holly]

grimmchild literally already exists

[uncut holly]

We dunno which grimm outcomes cannon although id guess the going through with it one cause that allows more stuff. Tbf either would allow for more stuff Grimm never dies

[obsidian quail]

oh i missed that

[dim inlet]

F tier charm

[obsidian quail]

sorry

[uncut holly]

If anything I think the next DLC is gonna be Crab based

[sinful nimbus]

bring back Lomm 🙏

[whole holly]

and? it still exists regardless of your opinion of it

[uncut holly]

Or Antlion based because we where promised a Lion Village and never got it

[blissful harbor]

100% steel city

[dim inlet]

No

[obsidian quail]

City of Iron please

[calm wind]

I mean, even if grimm dies, he's probably just geting replaced, he's not the actual higher being is he?

[uncut holly]

Which ones Lomm again?

[whole holly]

yes

[calm wind]

Like the whole nightmare heart thing

[dim inlet]

No

[whole holly]

proof?

[obsidian quail]

so u guys really think Pure Vessel shits on First Sinner?

[sinful nimbus]

It was a fanmade name for a scrapped NPC in Silksong

[uncut holly]

No matter the outcome of Grimm Troupe in Hollow Knight the nightmare heart never dies

[dim inlet]

Find one picture of grimmchild charm

[calm wind]

Probably? I mean, hornet did defeat her even if it was a memory

[uncut holly]

oh. I was thinking of the hollow knight curio keeper Lemm

[calm wind]

And pure vessel is a beast

[uncut holly]

The guy in city of tears

[craggy smelt]

pharloom might not be wrecked enough to entice Grimm yet

[obsidian quail]

hornet is a demigod though and the other half is Weaver

[whole holly]

we don't need picture of charm, we need grimmchild to come to pharloom

[tawdry flare]

Why do you keep calling it City of Iron? It’s the City of Steel

[austere coral]

I don’t think I agree with the sealed siblings thing, but yk she is definitely some sort of dreamer or acts as a seal in that ending, means she’s alive, even if forever sleeping

[obsidian quail]

u cant use her to lessen First Sinner

[obsidian quail]

oh i saw someone say it was called that

[dim inlet]

ETV is canon imo

[sinful nimbus]

That's the joke since they look similar

[uncut holly]

Also somehow for the Grimm Troupe they need someone with a Dream Nail in order to kill Nightmare King in the dream for the ritual

[craggy smelt]

someone was wrong

[uncut holly]

We never got poop man!

[obsidian quail]

Steel City dlc woooo

[craggy smelt]

barnacle bay DLC

[obsidian quail]

see ya in 2028

[orchid flint]

Is there any known lore reason why Hornet cocoons and teleports when dying instead of...you know...dying?

[blissful harbor]

ehhh it probably works differently in different kingdoms

[tawdry flare]

Uggghhhhhh ETV AND DNM IS CANON!!! YOU CAN’T JUST SAY ONE IS CANON “IN YOUR OPINION”!!!

[obsidian quail]

if u think Steel City won’t balloon ur crazy

[austere coral]

what’s ETV stand for, which one is that? Godhome?

[dim inlet]

Yea

[uncut holly]

They said that something that made Silksong tricky back in the day was the amount of towns. I feel like they then cut 2 towns and made it just 3.

[obsidian quail]

embrace the void

[craggy smelt]

gameplay, don't worry about it

[whole holly]

i really want DLCs to clear up Palestag, introduce new higher beings, Lifeblood Based Higher Being, as well as Grimm troupe

[uncut holly]

Bone Bottom. Belhart. Songclave

[dim inlet]

Look imma be real

Ending with the hardest boss is probably the one that's real

[obsidian quail]

we actually only got 1 Higher Being this game which was surprising

[dim inlet]

Joni erasure

[tawdry flare]

Lifeblood and Steel are by the far the most interesting directions they can go imo

[austere coral]

ok then I agree, that one or at least true ending

[uncut holly]

Thing with a DLC with the City of Iron is that it sounds like a straight up place. Maybe thats the next DLC like SilkSong that turns into a game.

[whole holly]

Joni erased because she died

[austere coral]

those two make the most sense leading to silksong if you ask me

[obsidian quail]

i’d like to see a butterfly higher being

[dim inlet]

Ts 1984

[obsidian quail]

SEE SOMEONE SAID IT

[dim inlet]

I think a moth would be cool

[obsidian quail]

is it iron or steel

[uncut holly]

We know that the City of Iron is a totaletarian government that has mastered void. And has made void constructs.

[tawdry flare]

IT’S THE CITY OF STEEL!!!

[dim inlet]

But imagine its like, a light moth, because moths like light haha

[obsidian quail]

i knew i wasn’t crazy

[dim inlet]

https://tenor.com/view/appsolute-radience-gif-20151762

[whole holly]

yeah, atleast make Nyleth, Greyroot or Palestag something more strong characters

[uncut holly]

All of the Steel Bugs we see in game have been confirmed to be Void

[limpid summit]

I think TC is more conscious about what can be a game and what can’t which makes me think that we’re either getting a very limited City of Steel area or not at all

[obsidian quail]

when

[tawdry flare]

I don’t know if this true but if it is I will cackle like a maniac

[dim inlet]

Wat about the one that replaces jiji

[craggy smelt]

Zylotol mentions that his master found lifeblood/plasmium in 'salt-stricken waters', which could mean Barnacle Bay is reeeeal!
so, I'd be down for more Plasmium DLC if it adds that region

[obsidian quail]

can someone give me a rundown of Steel city

[dim inlet]

Palace of Pain and red dream mainly

[orchid flint]

I gotta wonder what it looks like to other people when hornet or the knight just appear on the bench outta nowhere.

"The frick? How'd you get here?"
"Hell if I know"
"...?"

[austere coral]

omg definitely, I’d love some lifeblood based stuff. They’ve even ’teased’ it with the whole lifeblood beast in godehome

[limpid summit]

It’s been confirmed that the Steel Servants come with “vassals” (like Jiji) with the ability to summon void

[obsidian quail]

where did it say they were void in red memory

[dim inlet]

Ts dude said frick

[uncut holly]

Infact void is so common there. that in SilkSong we see Steel Seer Zi, who is hunting a lowly Servant Bug (A Slave), who is being hunted to death because he did stuff with Void

[tawdry flare]

We know nothing other than it is likely where the Steel Soul characters are from

[limpid summit]

We don’t know what the servants were made of the Wingmoulds aren’t steel servants

They’re PK creations

[uncut holly]

In game this servant summons void to try and defend himself and conjures a void apparition

[craggy smelt]

Steel Seer also mentions that the Masters are going to come down hard on the vassal that summoned the Void

[uncut holly]

And the servant himself is around the level of a Pilgrim

[whole holly]

yes, Abyss Creature should be reworked to be butterfly higher being, we only see it's head

[obsidian quail]

so where is all this “it’s been confirmed” coming from

these guys are giving me lore i never knew existed

[spark valve]

and the steel character says that's a bad thing nobody is supposed to do

[spark valve]

it hasn't been

[craggy smelt]

its come from some butts

[uncut holly]

We do know their very very liekly void, also Sharpes Nose has void like qualities

[tawdry flare]

Nothing about the Steel characters being void is confirmed

[blissful harbor]

jiji doing it for a couple of eggs in the base game lmao

[uncut holly]

Seeing as a lowly servant was hunted down for "touching the abyss" or something which is the act of doing void related things un sanctioned

It is very very very likely that the steel bugs are void

[craggy smelt]

I wonder if this means Jiji was Jinn's vassal
Zi also seemed to care about hers

[spark valve]

there's no aspect of sanction

[terse warren]

Does seem like a possibility

[uncut holly]

We also know that the City of Iron has Masters, who are very very strict. And oppressive

[tawdry flare]

IT’S THE CITY OF STEEL!!!!!!

[uncut holly]

No its not its the City of Iron it was said in The Slab

[rapid hare]

Can someone remind me where Team Cherry said they’re working on DLC? I need more. Also when are we getting the Zote game

[spark valve]

it's the city of steel

[blissful harbor]

it’s called the city of steel

[tawdry flare]

It says City of Steel in the Cradle

[uncut holly]

In the cradle?

[tawdry flare]

If there is a City of Iron it’s different

[uncut holly]

Maybe it is

[obsidian quail]

is this in Steelsoul?

[tawdry flare]

Yes. One of the demiweavers was captured from the City of Steel iirc

[uncut holly]

All City of Steel stuff seems to always be related to Steel Soul

[tawdry flare]

Nope

[terse warren]

Although it would be interesting that Jiji didn't recognize the void from the shade then

Although it is also true that the knight canonically doesn't die so

[spark valve]

this is in normal mode too

a cage in the cradle records a part weaver having been captured in the city of steel

[sinful nimbus]

Interview with Jason Schrier

[spark valve]

I mean more than that it would mean an immediate grave betrayal of the masters that would get jiji hunted down and killed

[uncut holly]

I mean the game just released probably a while

Team Cherry is addicted though seemingly

[craggy smelt]

Hornet seems to know a about the Masters (frustrating that she seems to know so much about everything but barely shares any) and also claims that no one can tame the Void.
might go against the idea that they use the Void for constructs - or Hornet just doesn't think anyone can really control it for long

[terse warren]

Well I doubt they'd find out about it

[wild falcon]

Man, green prince backstory is so good, and lost verdania looks so majestic

[obsidian quail]

they definitely have an idea already in the works they’re working on

[spark valve]

there's not much way for them to find out about sula either but it seems to be happening anyways

[tawdry flare]

Godmaster was released a little over a year after HK’s release right?

[uncut holly]

Well the steel people definitely use void, we see the Servant conjure a void "savior" from a bunch of bodies it gathered

[terse warren]

Oh I didn't play steel soul, I thought hornet told em

[uncut holly]

And the servant is likely in a very low position

[spark valve]

and the steel masters are going to hunt them down to kill them because that's something you aren't supposed to do

[tawdry flare]

Grimm troupe was only a few months… hmm

[craggy smelt]

I remember Godmaster taking a while
relative ofc

[uncut holly]

The fact that a lowly servant was able to learn this or do this. Kind of speaks volumes with how common void must be over there

[austere coral]

nooooo don’t give me hope

[tawdry flare]

It was like a year and a half idk

[terse warren]

Ok but also speaking of, Hornet says multiple times "no one can control the void" which. Is kinda wrong ain't it. She says it under the description of the Wingsmoulds but both those and the Kingsmoulds didn't really cause any issues, it seems to me like PK controlled the Void damn well

[craggy smelt]

hey, remember when a year and a half was a long wait for HK content? hurf hurf

[tawdry flare]

Just don’t even imagine it. Don’t let it fester

[spark valve]

it is wrong yes, that line makes very little sense

[uncut holly]

Zi also acts automaton like, which also would lend credence to them being a void construct, they have never before even considered any thought that would go against the masters

[sinful nimbus]

The wingsmould entry is nonsense written by bad writers

Kinda like the lifeblood ones

[tawdry flare]

Lifeblood was in between GT and GM

[uncut holly]

It would also make sense that if Zi returned empty handed they would be scrapped

[terse warren]

Just like the entire HK franchise

[craggy smelt]

yeah, like I said, she might just be biased against Void use, believing that it cannot be truly controlled forever
and its not like she's omniscient

[blissful harbor]

i mean, hornet has her own personality
there is personal bias in the notes, imo this is just her feelings on the matter

[terse warren]

What do those say that's wrong I didn't pay much mind to them

[sinful nimbus]

Apparently lifeblood deforms your body heavily

[terse warren]

Well yeah but she's pretty stubborn despite being proven very wrong lol

[tawdry flare]

^^ it makes the game and character more interesting seeing how Hornet views the void grr

[uncut holly]

It might be Hornet saying that because of the Pale King, she doesnt seem to hold him in high regard

[sinful nimbus]

and can act like an infection

[uncut holly]

She cares about White Lady but not so much Pale King.

[terse warren]

Well that would more so be a retcon (which is still bad writing) than normal bad writing of the Wingsmould entry

[spark valve]

tc on their way to cram as much lame fanon into the sequel as possible

[tawdry flare]

Hey it could be Worse

[spark valve]

it could be worse

[sinful nimbus]

A knowledgeable and trustworthy source being clearly wrong about a detail and creating a mischaracterization of the Pale King and by extension all of HK's story is pretty bad

[uncut holly]

I dont think Cherry really messed up the lore at all from Hollow Knight except for the White Lady and the Everbloom

[sinful nimbus]

could it though

[uncut holly]

Thats the only thing seemingly everything else adds up

[terse warren]

Me when I kill the best character

[spark valve]

yes the final boss could have been the knight

[tawdry flare]

I kind of like how the perspective shifts between TK who can use it just fine and Hornet who knows it’s Not Good warps the view of lifeblood between games

[uncut holly]

Is there anyway to save Garmond?

[terse warren]

Lost Garmond has to die but Lost Lace gets to live doesn't seem fair

[sinful nimbus]

Basically everyone who uses it is fine

[somber storm]

what's with the ant shooting range in far fields

[tawdry flare]

No he’s Dead

[sinful nimbus]

Except the scientist

[terse warren]

Act 3

[uncut holly]

The great companion - Dies

The Psychotic Parent Murdering Child - Lives

[tawdry flare]

Did Joni die of execution or Lifeblood overdose

[terse warren]

Go back there and use the boomeranged to hit all the targets

[austere coral]

yea he might have overdosed a taaaaad

[sinful nimbus]

The disconnect from it being a healthy substance that's slightly taboo but widely used to an insanely dangerous mad scientist infection knockoff is crazy

[craggy smelt]

and their assistant

[tawdry flare]

It was always used in moderation in HK, wasn’t it?

[sinful nimbus]

I'd assume lifeblood overdose at this point

[calm wind]

What's the end of the scientist storyline? Does he just give his heart and die or is there more lore?

[green yoke]

Well most people weren't mainlining it directly into their shell

[uncut holly]

Yeah Pale King knew what he was doing with the outlawing of Lifeblood. Everyone for the longest time thought he was unncessarily cruel against it till now.

[somber storm]

i saw it in act 3, one of the outcasts hides after killing a bunch of reds, is there nothing else?

[obsidian quail]

maybe because Lace has a better constitution that can withstand it

[terse warren]

Hollow Knight: RetconSong is such a peak game

[calm wind]

I think it's taboo cuz of how fast it spreads, like the infection

[uncut holly]

I mean not many things where retconned

[tawdry flare]

I’ve heard there’s a Plasmified boss somewhere but I have yet to find it

[blissful harbor]

i mean, with joni we always knew it was bad in high doses

[terse warren]

Use the boomerang to hit all 4 targets

[calm wind]

Possibly higher being related ao that also helps

[obsidian quail]

Garmond the goat was old

[sinful nimbus]

The plasmified worm entry says it just follows wherever the lifeblood is and that she saw stuff like it in Hallownest too

[calm wind]

Oh, the assistant

[craggy smelt]

i'd go with hunted down, their body didn't look distorted like Zylotol's did
(though the cavern is overgrown with lifeblood growths...)

[austere coral]

isn’t it very taboo in HK, the healthy stuff I agree with, just said positive things about it

[green yoke]

I'm pretty sure Hornet was talking about the Radiance's infection when she'd seen something similar

[frozen shell]

So mr mushroom confirms a third game

[uncut holly]

Yeah in Hollow Knight Lifeblood aka the Blue Butterlies was taboo. And very illegal

[somber storm]

oh yeah, another secret that i had zero chance of ever figuring out myself

[uncut holly]

Maybe they even killed people for using Lifeblood, or imprisoned them we dont know

[sinful nimbus]

Salubra describes it as a "bit of a taboo" which doesn't naturally describe what it is in SS

[craggy smelt]

Hallownest society only considered it a bit of a taboo, and Joni became a heretic, they might not have suspected what prolonged lifeblood overdose would result in

[uncut holly]

But it was something you werent supposed to do

[calm wind]

Hollow knight 3: lifeblood can't wait

[sinful nimbus]

Nah

[uncut holly]

Hornet talks about how the Life Blood infection is somehow linked to the Radiances infection which is linked to Dreams.

[austere coral]

with Zote becoming a lifeblood addict

[tawdry flare]

Are we all in agreement that Lifeblood has a connection to the Void

[sinful nimbus]

She does also compare it to the infection though

[worthy mesa]

who is saying those things??

[uncut holly]

They ponder on it about what it means. I think the idea is its all somehow connected

[terse warren]

I figured it out myself

[uncut holly]

Still the Radiance was infecting people with their own goal inmind

[cyan hamlet]

wait is the abyss connected to pharloom and hallownest or does every kingdom have it

[calm wind]

Even the little bug things it spawns are similar

[spark valve]

No?

[sinful nimbus]

Sure everything has a connection to the void now Team Cherry loves putting void in everything

[craggy smelt]

we don't know about other kingdoms, but it's below those two at least, probably others
Hornet suspects that if she digs down far enough, she'll find the shadow creepers, so that suggests the same environment everywhere

[obsidian quail]

not sure, but the Void is the Void everywhere

[calm wind]

The whole blue roots and orange roots also

[uncut holly]

I dont think so it has a connection to Dreams if anything

[blissful harbor]

i think the abyss is like bedrock

[cyan hamlet]

o

[whole pier]

I think Life Blood is separate kind of infection, Considering we seen it in 2 games now, third one might be set in Kingdom that is source of it?

[blissful harbor]

it’s just the bottom the of world

[obsidian quail]

there aren’t different Voids

it’s just in different places

[calm wind]

Oh, they did have a lifeblood infestation?

[tawdry flare]

Why not? Abyss door, Lifeblood gets more prevalent in Godhome as TK gets stronger, and it spreads in Pharloom once the Void takes over

[cyan hamlet]

maybe its like a giant area of void or smth

[sinful nimbus]

Lay off the rain world

[blissful harbor]

shhhh

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[calm wind]

Man, this other higherbeings just have no concept of boundaries smh

[uncut holly]

There probably is a source of Lifeblood but what it is I have no idea. It might be sourceless. Like how the Radiance is a god of dreams, but also isnt its source

[limpid summit]

Lightseeds and Lifeseeds are different concepts though even though they look sort of similar

So it’s p much just the SS stuff linking lifeblood to infection

[obsidian quail]

probably some Higher Being essence

like Bloodborne

[uncut holly]

Radiance was (The God of Dreams) kind of, but it wasnt the creator of it they where just a large entity with a lot of control

[calm wind]

Do we think Unn passed through pharloom?

[sinful nimbus]

Nah

[calm wind]

Cuz all the moss

[tawdry flare]

what no

[uncut holly]

Tbf, Nightmare Heart and Radiance are probably in the same wheel house. Because im pretty sure nightmares are just a configured differently version of dreams

[spark valve]

The prevalence in godhome is due to TK inviting it in via that wonky door and the act 3 thing is time. Door being in abyss is probably because that’s the most hidden spot, and the thing itself is in a dream

[blissful harbor]

the little flies look really similar to mosskin , but they’re like the only thing

[sinful nimbus]

Moss Grotto is pretty different from Greenpath and we know from Nyleth that she isn't the only source of plantlife (It also seems that stuff like Pale Ferns evolved naturally)

[limpid summit]

TK doesn’t really invite it it’s sort of already there
Not that I want it to be a HB

[uncut holly]

Nyleth made a bunch of plant life but they could have just grown it. Maybe their not a higher being and are just a seed

[sinful nimbus]

I think the default assumption should be that Moss Grotto is completely natural

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[uncut holly]

I do think they where probably the first one to set up shop in Pharloom though

They seem old, we cant tell but

[spark valve]

It opens the door and hits the dreamcatcjer thing which causes it to spread

[tawdry flare]

Hmmmmmmm okay. I guess that makes sense……..

[obsidian quail]

i thought shellwood was Nyleth’s domain but not Moss Grotto

[uncut holly]

They have 1 surviving shrine to t hem

[misty prism]

WHERE THE HELL ARE THE STEEL ASSASSINS

[craggy smelt]

somewhere else

[tawdry flare]

Cut

[uncut holly]

They sadly got cut, might be in a DLC

[limpid summit]

The lifeblood yeah the creature was there regardless

[sinful nimbus]

yeah

[limpid summit]

Definitely DLC

[spark valve]

But it didn’t have access in some way

[uncut holly]

Or maybe in another game. I feel like we arent going to directly see the City of Steel. Instead we are going to see many people from it.

[limpid summit]

It was ambiguous until the SS questline

[obsidian quail]

if it’s true that the steel assassin is a backer boss then it’s definitely steel city woooo

[calm wind]

So, pharloom kinda disproved the whole insects are savages and need a higher being to form civilizations right? Cuz they were there before Silk and those three bosses didn't feel like higher beings

[misty prism]

I only played Silksong for them NOO...

[calm wind]

Or maybe they are higher, but the ones we're accostumed to are pale?

[uncut holly]

City of Steel seems fully operational, but very oppressive. Doesnt seem like a good place to live, seems like everybody where is a slave or has a assigned job in some way

[limpid summit]

In part
Not all insects in Hallownest were savages either

[craggy smelt]

Zi mentions a 'home spear' - city of steel is a giant spearpoint, calling it now
who made a spear that big? who knows!

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[spark valve]

HK itself disproved that

[blissful harbor]

we always knew that, there were bugs before PK

[obsidian quail]

HK already disproved that

[misty prism]

[calm wind]

Which ones?

[limpid summit]

Mantises spiders bees

[calm wind]

Oh true

[obsidian quail]

Mantis tribes, Deepnest, Hive

[blissful harbor]

mantises, shrooms, spiders, bees, moths don’t really count

[limpid summit]

Shrooms eh

[tawdry flare]

They’re revered figures and therefore accumulated a lot of power through the way that Hollow Knight’s magic, dream, soul, etc works

[calm wind]

The pale king wanted to colonize them

[uncut holly]

If the City of Steel is built on Void it would be very easy for it to fall. But I dont think its going to, aswell as because their way of rule seems really bad, they limit information of their subjects and kill them when they step out of line. Seems very totalitarian

[obsidian quail]

can anyone point me to a lore breakdown of the steel content

[calm wind]

I think we only have a name drop?

[uncut holly]

From the sounds of it ingame The City of Steel is straight up trying to limit information and control what people think, using violence and death to enforce it

[obsidian quail]

i feel so out of the loop there

[craggy smelt]

look up Steel Soul Jinn
from the first game

[obsidian quail]

Jeep is going bonkers and idk what’s going on

[uncut holly]

wha?

[craggy smelt]

then in Silksong there's Steel Seer Zi

that's all the steel stuff in-games so far

[uncut holly]

Yeah im talking about SilkSong and Zi

[craggy smelt]

we don't even know for sure if the City of Steel is steel clan related (but it probably is)

[obsidian quail]

ur saying all of these things i don’t know, i need to be in the loop

[spark valve]

there is a city of steel
they send bugs out to like witness falls of kingdoms
they're gonna send assassins after sula because they interacted with the void

[limpid summit]

You get a questline where you find a Jinn-like construct named Zi and you have to find her “vassal”, a little Jiji like bug named Sula
Sula ends up summoning void (so Jiji can do it?), we beat it and let him go
Zi says he’ll he hunted for messing with void (Sharpe)

[craggy smelt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfU3ljLJIkk&ab_channel=VideoGameNews

I think this video holds all of the steel stuff

[blissful harbor]

if that’s why they send assassins
what if they blame hornet for what happened in pharloom, leading to dlc with sharpe

[calm wind]

Damn, every bug out there summoning void

[craggy smelt]

silk steel song soul

[spark valve]

sure could be

[blissful harbor]

omg TC had it all planned out

[uncut holly]

Ingame Steel Seer Zi appears in Steel Soul mode, they have been sent to Pharloom to chase and kill a Servant who learned about void and wasnt supposed to know that information. And so they are being chased across the world by them.

[spark valve]

that's not what happens

[calm wind]

They gatekeeping void now??

[obsidian quail]

okay so Void is taboo in city of steel?

[craggy smelt]

I figured originally they were going to go after Hornet becuase they were mad at her dad
then when Act 3 kicked off they would be mad at Hornet
but alas they never showed up...

[tawdry flare]

Steel Soul only DLC 😭

[uncut holly]

So i havent played steel soul to see it, i might be very wrong

[spark valve]

steel faction sends out servants in pairs, a steel construct (zi, jinn) and a vassal (Sula, Jiji) to witness the falls of kingdoms for some reason

[calm wind]

I think it's taboo everywhere no?

[tawdry flare]

Could be taboo, could be highly regulated

[spark valve]

if you touch it they kill you so yeah

[uncut holly]

From what I know the servant got in trouble for doing void stuff

[calm wind]

Maybe they're shady with it, more than the PK?

[obsidian quail]

i was curious because someone said the steel residents are confirmed to be void?

[calm wind]

Kinda a high bar ngl

[craggy smelt]

they aren't

Void sorcery is restricted for vassals at least

[calm wind]

Are the snails void? They all disappear after hornet explodes, but their shells are intact

[spark valve]

that isn't really the case they aren't confirmed to be void

[uncut holly]

I said that cause sharpe's nose has void qualities, we know City of Steel has void relations, and it has enough void relations for a average joe like the servant ingame to learn void rituals

[craggy smelt]

no, they just mess with it, and various magicks
they seem to have been destroyed by the power of the spell they used on Hornet

[blissful harbor]

they retracted into their shells

[calm wind]

Thought so, kinda weird they got disintegrated tho

[calm wind]

Oh, really? Thought they were just gone

[uncut holly]

Its not confirmed steel bugs are void, I just think its likely

[spark valve]

they probably expended all their soul and vaporized like the shamans in hk when you upgrade spells

[smoky hamlet]

Holy shit three queens is canon

[uncut holly]

It would also match up with how Sharpe looks

[craggy smelt]

three queens is reeeeal

[calm wind]

Tue

[tawdry flare]

yeah pretty much

[smoky hamlet]

I could not be more joyous about this discovery, I love this game

[calm wind]

True*

[limpid summit]

TC are creative hacks
Infection -> Plasmium
Soul Master -> Groal
Grimm Troupe -> Steel Servants

[craggy smelt]

steel town on a saturday night 🎶

[spark valve]

yeah idk what the deal is with steel servants

[calm wind]

Do we know how lace survived?

[craggy smelt]

hornet saved her

[tawdry flare]

She’s a demigod and GMS Invested the rest of her Silk in her and Hornet

[uncut holly]

They are the next "DLC"

[calm wind]

No like, pre silk fight

[craggy smelt]

I guess she just didn't die

[tawdry flare]

She’s very good at pretending

[spark valve]

she probably just stopped fighting and played dead

[calm wind]

Just built different

[tawdry flare]

Also she can like project herself so that body probably isn’t even actually her

[craggy smelt]

maybe living silk-beings are harder to kill than it first seems

[green yoke]

Hard to kill something that is ||literally just made of Silk||

||No blood or anything||

[calm wind]

Yeah, was hornet hallucinating her or is it her above the lake?

[uncut holly]

Probably i mean silk doesnt have bones, i guess it would just unravel. Phantom has weird silk blood

Or a weird silk jet that comes out of them

That could just be light

[craggy smelt]

soul

[limpid summit]

Do you think she’s knocked or does she just do what trobbio does but we don’t see it

[uncut holly]

Its probably soul

[limpid summit]

“Oh shit she’s coming up the elevator better go back to sleep”

[craggy smelt]

trobbio will return...

maybe

[uncut holly]

Theres a 3rd Trobio fight in the DLC on the roof

[spark valve]

isn't her 'body' gone if you go back

[tawdry flare]

No it’s still there

[craggy smelt]

hah

[spark valve]

probably just waiting then

not like she has anywhere else to be

[tawdry flare]

I think she just projected an image of herself if she can just Do that but also yeah that

[craggy smelt]

it's a fake doll she swapped in

body double

[spark valve]

in abyss she suggests she was deliberately letting hornet win

[calm wind]

Are we going with the godhome ending or the normal ending? Cuz if it's godhome, then HK is alive in hallownest?

[uncut holly]

Also I think the WAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWA grub cave in Blasted Cliffs is what the Antlions where or its their larval form. Againt we dont know they arent called Antlions it just says they grow into something big and dangerous

[spark valve]

it's ambiguous

[tawdry flare]

“Letting you live was my rebellion” or whatever

[spark valve]

yeah

[tawdry flare]

It’s both

[craggy smelt]

sure Lace, whatever you say

[spark valve]

though maybe she's just talking about slicing off gms's arm, though at that point having hornet wouldn't do gms much good

[calm wind]

Hollow knight 3: except this time you actually play as hollow knight

[uncut holly]

I think its possible a DLC could have something to do with the WAWA cave.

[calm wind]

Wtf is Wawa cave

[craggy smelt]

isn't that just the nest for the Judges?

I don't think it's anything special

[limpid summit]

The one where you play the needolin and the little dudes sing with you right

[craggy smelt]

'sing'

[limpid summit]

How do you kill them actually

[craggy smelt]

heeey, come on
they're just babies

[limpid summit]

Hypothetically

Is their entry optional like menderhug

I’ll just read it and leave them alive

[uncut holly]

So in Blasted Pits theres a room, and theres a sand pit on the bottom of it. You go down and something quickly goes under the sand. If you play your needle a bunch of tiny little grubs come up and start going "WAWAWAWAWAWAWAWAWA"

You should see it

[tawdry flare]

I found that but didn’t play the Needolin. Am I Stupid?

[craggy smelt]

i need to go back and find the baby fly in the Slab that'll become the new broodmother
some Fluke Hermit shit there

[craggy smelt]

yes! always be needlin'

[limpid summit]

Wait what

Where is that yak

[tawdry flare]

DLC Broodmother 2 lfg

[limpid summit]

That can’t be

[uncut holly]

There a resting place for the Judge?

[craggy smelt]

somewhere in the Slab, I guess you can go back to the broodmother nest
only seen screenshots, haven't been there myself

[limpid summit]

What are the judge grubs called

[calm wind]

Did we get any more lore on masks from the mask maker?

[spark valve]

squirrm

[tawdry flare]

Lemme pimpillo them and find out

[craggy smelt]

we don't get a name, you can't attack them or talk to them, they run away if you aren't playing

[terse warren]

Yes you can attack them lol

[craggy smelt]

wait, really?

[terse warren]

They're Squirms

You need to kill them for Hunter's Memento

[craggy smelt]

well dang

[spark valve]

squirrms*

[uncut holly]

I dunno whats up with Squirms but we are gonna get something with Squirms

They are too weird

[limpid summit]

If allowed the opportunity, these creatures will grow into a form larger and more oppressive.

[spark valve]

squirrms aren't really a mystery they grow up, they get gilded with the citadel's metal, then put to work as judges

[tawdry flare]

Oh my gosh they’re incredible

[limpid summit]

Woah

[uncut holly]

Wait what!

Oh, i thought they where a robot

[tawdry flare]

I whiffed hold on

[limpid summit]

Bosses don’t have needolin dialogue like dnd do they

[craggy smelt]

actually yes, you can knock his mask off and he has more to say, another thing I have to do

[spark valve]

Bug born of Pharloom. You have been chosen. May our Citadel's holy gilding harden your soft shell. Stand eternal as our arbiter, that no bug bearing sin shall step within our sacred halls.

[limpid summit]

I guess there would be no incentive to play

[limpid summit]

What does he say

I saw if you knock it with the needle art he has MM eyes

[craggy smelt]

haven't gotten it yet, I just know you can

[uncut holly]

That does make sense, they become the Judges. Although I think when the Judge dies their just crumble away and you can see their hollow

[drowsy mortar]

This guy seems interesting

[craggy smelt]

he's fine, I guess

[drowsy mortar]

Immediately wants Hornet to make him her bitch

[uncut holly]

He is strange

[calm wind]

You wouldn't make me run sinner's path again even if you had a gun in my head

[uncut holly]

Yes.

[limpid summit]

Is Styx dead in SS actually

[spark valve]

cogflies might be a better way to do it

[craggy smelt]

actually horrible really

[limpid summit]

Or just gone

[drowsy mortar]

Sinner's Road isn't even that bad

[tawdry flare]

i stabbed them

[drowsy mortar]

No?

[craggy smelt]

good question, I wondered if he'd be replaced with something

[unique fox]

okay so am i crazy or are the judges meant to evoke the godtamers is the parallel there conscious

[limpid summit]

Cause he gives silkeaters

[drowsy mortar]

Oh Steel Soul

[craggy smelt]

you're crazy, they just have similar colors

[drowsy mortar]

You really need to use a different abbreviation lol

[limpid summit]

Also does he have a Huntress interaction I can’t find anything

[placid garden]

I think it's kinda nice that Hornet sought for mates too

[pseudo vessel]

I missed needolins during red memory part
any imp dialogue there?

[tawdry flare]

they meant sharp shadow

[limpid summit]

I thought they’d be a divine leg eater type

[limpid summit]

I meant sealed siblings

[unique fox]

dude you beat the first ending and then go through the entirety of act 3 and beat the true ending and you think you've seen everything

[limpid summit]

I think the Wingmoulds have dialogue actually not kidding

[drowsy mortar]

Omg Styx your signing voice needs work

My poor ears lol

[limpid summit]

But I don’t know what it is

[somber storm]

WA WA WA WA WA WA WA WA

[craggy smelt]

huntress eventually disappears (and her eggs are all hatched - guess we didn't bring enough meat...)
maybe it's good Styx didn't stick around

[tawdry flare]

we love WA WA WA WA

[spark valve]

they don't seem to

[pseudo vessel]

these critters took me way too long to kill

[tawdry flare]

noo she's just raising her kids

[calm wind]

Do we think hallownest is doing ok? Or just never really healed?
Assuming a lot of time passed since hk

[tawdry flare]

wait was styx huntress' partner

[craggy smelt]

the infection will be gone for sure at least

[terse warren]

Nah, if we didn't bring enough meat we'd see her hollow corpse, source: that's what happens when you don't bring the meat

[pseudo vessel]

only mantis faction has any rulers left tho

power struggle prob

[craggy smelt]

ah, iiinteresting

[iron echo]

how do i exlpore|| the slab|| i came from the bottm and everything is blocked

[uncut holly]

Id be willing to bet seeing as we have atleast 1 void ending, and assumings its not the bad Godhome one. Hollownest is probably ok

[limpid summit]

Wow red herring

[iron whale]

Get kidnapped

[calm wind]

Is actually really funny that all the bugs we murdered would actually be fine after the godhome, but sadly we murdered the whole kingdom for geo

[craggy smelt]

well... the infection is corrosive, so a lot of them would have their insides burned out and they'd just drop dead
depends on how far gone they are
(pray for Myla)

[iron echo]

dont i loose every thing in that case

[outer stump]

`Temporarily.

[calm wind]

Am i tripping or was Isma's face really similar to those cabagge things at the wood zone?

[iron echo]

oh thanks

[tawdry flare]

Isma and Nyleth appear to be the same species

[calm wind]

I'm sure they'll be fine

[obsidian quail]

they called Atla the Weaver of Time, what do u think that means

[calm wind]

Interesting.
Also the gray mourner don't seem to fit at pharloom and has the delicate flowers which according to the shamans, didn't really grow there. So maybe she's from yet another kingdom?

[iron echo]

where do i get kidnapped at

[tawdry flare]

yup probably

[calm wind]

Probably just fanatism

She does have a lot of time

[spark valve]

if ze'mer was from pharloom there would be delicate flowers in pharloom

[limpid summit]

Probably yeah it’s not like Pharloom is very serene

[calm wind]

Not being able to do anythig ever

[placid garden]

Can these kingdoms go 5 minutes without getting cursed or be in danger at all

[obsidian quail]

doesn’t silk extend life though?

[craggy smelt]

kingdoms all over the damn place

[tawdry flare]

does this happen if you enter act 3 without accepting the quest?

[obsidian quail]

maybe she made time related silk spells ?

[spark valve]

yes, but that's not very interesting so that's not what's happening during the games

[placid garden]

sounds about right

[calm wind]

I don't think she was public knowledge? Like wasn't she a failed experiment or smth?

[tawdry flare]

Hey the City of Steel probably isn't cursed!

[obsidian quail]

no that was Eva

[calm wind]

Oh yeah

Mb

Probably did then yeah

[craggy smelt]

give it time

[obsidian quail]

the largest Weavenest is named after Atla and she has a prayer effigy which dubbed her the Weaver of time

so she has to be special

[calm wind]

All higher being bring bad luck with then is canon at this point

Cant wait for the city of steel higher being to be just a steel sawblade and spikes

[whole holly]

is it in game or ?

[calm wind]

Im just joking

[obsidian quail]

on the one hand i think it would have been really cool to have a Void Weaver boss in the abyss weavenest

[uncut holly]

Pale King got notes from his travels

[modern epoch]

Anyone know what are the timed essence objectives in Verdania are good for? Thought first i would need them to get access to Bossfight, but after i faced the Boss once i found two more ... So is this for Lore or somethig else?

[obsidian quail]

on the other hand we can’t make everything Void

[calm wind]

Bro had to order them from somewhere.
Void based delivery

[uncut holly]

Went to the City of Steel was in awe by their sawblades, and said "I can do that!"

[obsidian quail]

i was expecting a Void silk Weaver boss in that Abyss Weavenest

[calm wind]

Is abaddom ( idr her name) the first sinner? Cuz void and stuff? If i was silk i eould be very pissed

Also, did we ever get to know what was that dude sin?

[uncut holly]

I dont think Void normally infects things. I think that was just because GMS had silk on them

There is also Lace

[obsidian quail]

no she’s the first sinner because she was a heretic who denied GMS

[tawdry flare]

it was void infecting through the soul of the silk

[uncut holly]

That makes sense, I think void and soul are related, im not actually too sure

[obsidian quail]

apostasy was her sin

[tawdry flare]

void consumes soul

[craggy smelt]

Absalom, we don't know if that's her name
I don't think First Sinner had anything to do with the Void though, she just turned against Silk

[uncut holly]

Theres a bunch of soul statues in OG hollowknight that have the void aesthetic

[calm wind]

Yeah, cuz she gave them sentience and stuff. So she could be messing with the void to just stop thinking forever?

[craggy smelt]

they were made by the ancient civilization that used to live in the Abyss and worshipped the Void
I guess maybe now it's revealed those Soul Totems were used to collect Soul to feed the Void?

[outer stump]

One of the journal entries is about void eating soul whenever it can. Giving it ties to everybody in Pharloom via Silk had unintended consequences.

[calm wind]

Void also doesn't need to be in contact with you to corrupt you, aka lighthouse bug in abyss

[obsidian quail]

the Weavers seemed to be concerned with freedom from GMS, they don’t have anything to do with Void beyond that weavenest

[whole holly]

sharp shadow charm is made with soul totem

[obsidian quail]

i’m gonna assume that particular weaver was interested in it but nothing came from it

[calm wind]

Fair enough

[obsidian quail]

if there were Void silk abilities it’d be a different story

[uncut holly]

I think the Void weaver message might have been them trying to get rid of their fear? Atleast that was the sound of it

Like they where fearful of GMS or something and they wanted to get rid of it?

[craggy smelt]

those tablets are from the ancient civilization, not the weavers

[limpid summit]

Where does that name come from again

[craggy smelt]

made up

(gotta call them something)

I tried for 'Black Kingdom' but mossbag said that sucked

[limpid summit]

No not AC

Absalom

[craggy smelt]

aah, the Abyss weavenest

[whole holly]

do shamans in Pharloom give hornet spells or display soul manipulation?

[spark valve]

they use soul yes

[whole holly]

Void Civilization?

[worn flicker]

Any of ya got the mask maker dialogues from act 2

[obsidian quail]

i couldn’t tell if that was Hallownest’s AC or a different one

how could it be Hallownest AC when they’re so far? AC would have insane reach

or the same civilization but different groups of them who travel where Void is?

[craggy smelt]

yep
same one, there's an arcane egg down there

[worn flicker]

Where did ya find it mate

[craggy smelt]

he also said that one sucked

[whole holly]

damn, what about Abyss Dynasty, i like that and it makes most sense

[craggy smelt]

he said they all sucked except for 'Void Kingdom'

[whole holly]

eww

that is really basic and lazy one

[obsidian quail]

i don’t like Kingdom because they were all over the place

[terse warren]

we dont even know that it was a kingdom

[limpid summit]

Our canon name is ancient caste YES ancient caste is AC not Hallownest

[terse warren]

ancient/void civilization makes the most sense

[limpid summit]

Then Deepnest is “honored caste”

These random one liners are so confusing

More of a reason to hate mask maker

[prisma quail]

Most interesting lore piece so far

[hexed axle]

By the way, has anyone figured out what is up with this overall obsession with bells in Pharloom?

[austere coral]

cool that both kingdoms most likely knew about each other, and considered themselves ’eternal’

aaaaand both fell

in some way

[prisma quail]

I don't get why all the weavers are titled last of their line

[austere coral]

Though Pharloom less so

[austere coral]

Idk

[obsidian quail]

it’s hard for weavers to have children, and many do not

so they are last of their line because they don’t have any descendants

[prisma quail]

I guess that's their main difference to spiders lol

[smoky pilot]

Also (sorry if that was already asked) what about that one weaver we saw in hallownest?

[prisma quail]

It was just left behind

[obsidian quail]

came with the price of being super enlightened magical spiders

[obsidian quail]

it was still there for some reason but it left

[smoky pilot]

So it escaped Pharloom's grasp?

[obsidian quail]

pretty sure it goes like, the Weavers left Pharloom and dispersed around the world

some arrived in Hallownest and established Deepnest

some went other places

[analog lily]

the true ending makes me feel like the canon ending of hollow knight was the Embrace the Void ending since the knight saves hornet and lace and he was in shade lord form

[prisma quail]

How do we know it left

[obsidian quail]

Pharloom goes on missions to capture Weavers throughout the world, so that Weaver was just one that wasn’t caught

[prisma quail]

Do we know for certain if SS is a sequel or prequel

Wow that's a bad acronym

[obsidian quail]

it is a sequel

[prisma quail]

What clue do we have for it

[smoky pilot]

True ending

[obsidian quail]

because it walks away when the Knight comes close and never comes back

[smoky pilot]

Is a pretty big giveaway

[prisma quail]

No spoilers still haven't completed it

[obsidian quail]

Hornet directly mentions it as the past

[prisma quail]

Could just have a hidey hole

[obsidian quail]

u shouldn’t be in here if u haven’t completed though

[prisma quail]

Yeah

[craggy smelt]

then be careful, lore channels have no spoiler restrictions, the endings get talked about all the time in here

[smoky pilot]

This is the lore channel, I wouldn't go here if I cared for spoilers...

[obsidian quail]

but i can tell u for sure SS is a sequel

[obsidian quail]

maybe

[prisma quail]

So far the lore as presented to me is very vague and doesn't say much

[analog lily]

guys. what if, the mr mushroom ending. what if mr mushroom is the shade lord. or even higher.

[prisma quail]

does the true ending fix this?

[obsidian quail]

Weavers don’t seem like hidey hole type though

[craggy smelt]

what if he's not hough

[prisma quail]

Something that ties it all together

[obsidian quail]

ur asking questions no one will answer

because that will spoil it

[smoky pilot]

In very little part, to me it's still quite muddy

[craggy smelt]

very explicitly yes

[prisma quail]

I guess I'll just finish and come back lol

[obsidian quail]

u just have to play and then we’ll talk !

[prisma quail]

How long is act 3?

[craggy smelt]

act length

[obsidian quail]

depends on what u did in act 2

[analog lily]

yep, i agree. the storie perfectly sets up why hornet cant use the abilities she had from hollow knight. most people forget that in the beggininsgg of silksong, it was stated that she hopes to regain her abilites she lost from the impact of the original fall as she explores pharloom

[obsidian quail]

but not too long

[prisma quail]

Basically everything

okay

[lunar rampart]

Is Widow and first sinner the same person, or am i getting that wrong?

[craggy smelt]

different people

just both Weavers

[smoky pilot]

Also this whole thing with the true ending makes me rethink about the flower ending in hk, how come the flower was so powerful and fragile, while it lasted way longer but did less sustensive damage albeit being submerged entirely in the void lake compared to 'only' the shade lord in hk

[obsidian quail]

since u did act 2 u already should have known SS is a sequel

[prisma quail]

Why would you even assume they're the same person

[obsidian quail]

because Hornet references those events

[prisma quail]

Where

[obsidian quail]

they’re not

[zinc herald]

:(

[obsidian quail]

in dialogue with different bugs she talks about Hallownest

[zinc herald]

ok now I gotta get to act 3 to see what's up there lmao

[prisma quail]

Which ones, I never came across it

[lunar rampart]

Cuz the sinner fight feels like a memory from before her mask was taken off

[velvet abyss]

one on the hk is real and on skong it's what Hornet imagines she knows its power but not to what extent i think

[craggy smelt]

steel soul styx?

[smoky pilot]

Yeah but sinners body is still inside the cell no? They're not gonna lock a memory

[prisma quail]

The way she was imprisoned is definitely odd, it's phsyical but the fight is a memory

[analog lily]

theories is that since shade or void is regret personified, the delicate flower does the opposite of regret and allows them to move on, like when u give the mourner the flower, so maybe there was just too much regret for 1 flower to handle.

[obsidian quail]

i can’t give u exact words and with who but she directly references the Knight, the Void, the Hive, the dying kingdom she’s from etc

[zinc herald]

yup

[craggy smelt]

i was afraid of that

[prisma quail]

Do you remember like which area it was

[obsidian quail]

the First Sinner and Widow are two different beings

[smoky pilot]

That's the first time I hear void is linked to regret, is it not nothing at all, no mind to think and all that, taking that into account they can't have or be regret idk

[obsidian quail]

it wasn’t a specific area because she talks about her past with different bug npcs throughout the journey

[smoky pilot]

Yes that's what I'm saying

[analog lily]

i mean that the void always comes to places of regret

[lunar rampart]

Yes they would it is like a soul that wants to get out so they hid her in a secret room so nobody releases her

[prisma quail]

Damn I missed it

[analog lily]

they are attracted to places full of regret, like in hollow knight, one of the large theories of how the pale king died is the void tendrills were led into his chambers from the regret he was carrying of all the vessals, hence his last thought

[smoky pilot]

Mmh

[obsidian quail]

even more than regret they seem to attract beings with rather pessimistic mindsets of life

it’s a pretty anti life existence

[smoky pilot]

They attract or are attracted, you said both

Not the same person I am now officially blind yeepee

[obsidian quail]

what

[analog lily]

what

[smoky pilot]

You said it attracts regretful people while @analog lily said that it is attracted to regretful people

Pretty big difference

[analog lily]

negative energy

ig

[obsidian quail]

i can’t say what attracts Void

[analog lily]

big bootey bugs

[obsidian quail]

but i can say every being who has dabbled with Void to an extent has had rather a negative mindset

[smoky pilot]

I don't think he's wrong

[analog lily]

ye

[kind pagoda]

so whats the silkmother

[analog lily]

grandma?

[kind pagoda]

yeah

[analog lily]

u saw the ending where hornet becomes the new queen right?

[kind pagoda]

no im in act 3 rn

[analog lily]

...

[kind pagoda]

juststarted it

so its spoilers?

[analog lily]

sry for spiling one of the endings

[kind pagoda]

damn

[analog lily]

sry

[prisma quail]

Like was the context conversing with vendors or stuff like story bosses

[analog lily]

hey, its the normal ending

so dont be worried. not one of the secret ones

or hard to get ones

or the true one

[kind pagoda]

you mean the one where she turned all black?

[analog lily]

like statue?

[kind pagoda]

i dont think im being spoiled if i dont know what youre talking about lmao

imma just finish the game

[analog lily]

ok

[wild falcon]

Grandmother silk looks kinda humanoid, what you think about it?

[sinful nimbus]

Not much

Most HK characters are anthropomorphized to some degree and many have hair

GMS in particular is ugly af though

[golden olive]

do we know what "slumber" is talking about in the "pharloom's folly" poem?

"They forget your heart, bound in slumber and servitude"

[cobalt gazelle]

guys how long do you think its gonna take to 100% silksong

[sinful nimbus]

Grand Mother Silk's sealing

[golden olive]

like 40 or 50 hours first playthrough

[wild falcon]

I can't wait for some hk youtuber to release lore explaining video, so I don't have to research anything

[cobalt gazelle]

oh ok that seems a bit lower than what i expected

[limpid summit]

GMS slander is always appreciated

[golden olive]

i thought this line was directly referring to pharloom's workers

like pharloom's "heart" (the reason its alive/successful) is only able to keep pumping with exploitation- idk what slumber could possibly mean tho

[wild falcon]

Torso could use some work, but face and hair are on point

[sinful nimbus]

the "heart" would be GMS and it's bound with "slumber" (being the weaver trap that snared her) and servitude (to the citadel which kept her trapped)

[golden olive]

ahhh makes sense

[plain moon]

hornet is called hornet in silksong

[prisma quail]

Is there a way to search through the game's dialogue?

[edgy nebula]

im a big fan of the baby judges

[whole hawk]

Does anyone remember why Steelsoul Jinn was in Hallownest again?

[plain moon]

ok

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think there's a text dump yet

[plain moon]

yoo

[pseudo zealot]

||what the cutscene of the true ending implies? wasnt knight supposed to be hollow?||
major true ending spoilers

[uncut holly]

I think this is the one from the cage drop bridge

[night herald]

Am I ever able to go back to ||Verdania|| to complete my journal enteries? And does that place have a map?

[uncut holly]

True Ending kinda confirms a fan theory that was in Godhome with Nosk. Being that Nosk turns into someone you care about and they turned into Hornet

[violet hull]

Ghost (The player character in hollow knight) has been shown to not be hollow a few times. You sit down to quirrel, you talk to npcs, small interactions etc.

The hollow knight itself (the boss in the black egg) also isn't hollow, that's the whole reason the infection is able to breach. At the end of path of pain you can see the pale king and the knight share a moment. The hollow knight also looks back at you at the end of the climb from the abyss, maybe showing some regret.

[pure belfry]

so Plasmium is Lifeblood right? I think the game makes it pretty obvious.

[runic musk]

Yes

[pseudo zealot]

then what does that quote "you shall seal the blinding lights that plague their dreams, you are the hollow knight" means 😭 is it non-canon?

[violet hull]

Yea, pretty sure so

[runic musk]

Also actually has a side effect if you take too much of it yourself which is neat.

[acoustic holly]

hey lore people, is there a canon ending now

[violet hull]

No the statement is canon, the pale king just didn't know the hollow knight wasn't truly hollow

[acoustic holly]

to hollow knight ofc

[violet hull]

Yeah!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s_pumI-nrM

You basically get an improved hiveblood charm that can heal your health to full

[cosmic kindle]

She made the 4th chorus?

[violet hull]

Funny how ghost can chug as much hiveblood as they want with no side effect while other bugs aren't able to

Ghost is probably immune to the negative effects of it

[runic musk]

yknow I wonder how a Fourth Chorus ended up in Far Fields

[obsidian quail]

Pale King was talking to the Hollow Knight not the Knight

in the first place

[obsidian quail]

taking a stroll

[placid garden]

I need another boss fight like Fourth Chorus

that was awesome

[runic musk]

Just me or were the animations for them and GMS a bit smooth or whatever

[teal shell]

i hate to be that guy but that was a point made in hk lmao😭

[pseudo zealot]

makes seven years since ive last played hollow knight 😭

[violet hull]

Been a while for me too, my lore understanding is shaky at best. Good you returned!

[teal shell]

as stated in a secret lore tablet, the knight really really loves falafel, thus proving they cannot truly be hollow

[violet hull]

What bug is granny silk supposed to be? Is she artificial or something

[teal shell]

this is a bit if not clear

[flat totem]

for me it was the first sinner

The first sinner was such a good boss

[runic musk]

I realized that First Sinner is basically just a harder Widow fight lol

[placid garden]

oh hell, not again-

I have the trauma of losing all my rosaries cause of Widow

[runic musk]

Not complaining though both are very good bosses

[acoustic holly]

is there a canon ending for hollow knight now?

[pseudo zealot]

yea, for me thats the most cool bossfight

[obsidian quail]

not necessarily a bug, just a thing

[teal shell]

ehhhh kinda its a debate

[placid garden]

yes question mark?

[acoustic holly]

it feels like itd be true ending or godhome flower

[austere coral]

awesome user name

[placid garden]

What's for certain is that it's not Sealed Siblings

[runic musk]

well a few are straight up not anymore but theres a few contenders still.

[teal shell]

me personally i think its embrace the void or dream no more, leaning more to embrace the void for a few reasons

[austere coral]

same here

[placid garden]

Personally, I'm thinking dream no more

[austere coral]

those make the most sense, leaning towards dream no more

[teal shell]

im not ruling out the possibility of either but personally im a embrace the void truther

[acoustic holly]

i think embrace the void specifically the flower quest ending because the knight turns into shade lord for a second in the final cutscene

[runic musk]

Ty haven't changed it in 5 years lol

[teal shell]

i dont think it can be the flower one imo

but i may be wrong, but i am never as i am always right sadly

[austere coral]

well gorb is always best boy with whom one should ascend soooooo still relevant

[teal shell]

the hollow knight himself told me that its embrace the void

[placid garden]

What a name. Shade Lord.

[acoustic holly]

does flower ending have a name

[runic musk]

Yknow it took me a bit to realize when fighting Lost Lace the first time Hornet kinda just sinks down but in further attempts she actively swims down there to hasten it I like that.

[austere coral]

not an official one as far as I know, since the others got theirs from achievements (I think?) and flower one is a secret

and doesn't have an achievement

[obsidian quail]

well the cutscene one is canon

[teal shell]

i think it has to be embrace the void for 3 main reasons, appearance of the shade lord (would be kinda dumb to happen offscreen), lack of the hollow knights shade and i think its more narratively neat

[shy lily]

ok so little question i just met seth on silksong and trying to figure out which ost was his because god she is beatiful, second who was seth irl ? cause i just see people talking about him in the comment of his fight

[placid garden]

The Delicate Flower. It's good it's not in this game

[runic musk]

Someone who passed

If I have my facts right Seth character was a make a wish thing? Or were they an actual backer?

That I can't remember clearly

[acoustic holly]

yeah for sure and that may explain why hornet knows of flower

[teal shell]

think most people just refer to it as the flower ending or the etv flower ending

[obsidian quail]

it’s Nyleth’s

[teal shell]

well no hornets seen the flower in the past, i do not believe it is the flower ending

[acoustic holly]

when has she seen it

[shy lily]

oh shit okok

thanks

[teal shell]

she pulls it from a memory where the white lady shows her one lol

[acoustic holly]

oh yeah ig they are memories lmao

does it mention the void there?