sk-lore

[gritty ruin]

I see.. alr

[obsidian quail]

Mediph is right here silly

[gritty ruin]

So she was gonna be sacrificed but then escapes, and kills the mother silk so they’d stop coming after her

[muted lantern]

Well I guess I proved my "bad with names" claim

[wide raft]

basically, But doing that fucked things up for the people there so she had to fix up the mess she made.

[gritty ruin]

Is there like a plague? A silk plague?

[muted lantern]

A haunting

Basically everyone in pharloom was infused with silk to extend their lives and it got possessed by the goddess

[wide raft]

Not really. The residents of Pharloom all have silk traces in their shells due to how prevaliant it's use is there. It's called the haunting and basically when someone gets too weak or exhausted they can't fight back anymore and can be puppeted

[gritty ruin]

Ohhh that’s cool

[obsidian quail]

the Citadel was forcibly implanting all kinds of Silk in bugs under religious fervor and reverence for its properties

and as the originator of all Silk, GMS controlled them through it

[muted lantern]

Was the silk used to infuse gms's originally? Like were they harvesting magic silk from a sleeping god?

[obsidian quail]

good question

i would also like that answer

[muted lantern]

Also, did they worship gms before she haunted them?

[gilded beacon]

Weren't they trying to cheat death?

[wide raft]

Every bug wanted to be a weaver essentially but due to it being physical instead of spiritual like soul. It had less noticible side effects.

And no. GMS 'is' a silk source. We know she's a higher being, we don't know if she's the primordial weaver or just a very powerful one. But eventually the people put her to sleep to harvest her, and when they noticed things were weakening they turned to technology.

[gilded beacon]

Like the soul sanctum

[gritty ruin]

So the mother silk is like a puppet master and that’s why hornet comes to kill them

[obsidian quail]

didn’t they say Mother Silk is the originator of the Silk

[muted lantern]

Who put her to sleep?

[obsidian quail]

yes those silk properties hit

[muted lantern]

And where is it said, I missed that completly

[wide raft]

the three nerds in the citadel you get the songs from

[gilded beacon]

At first I thought that GMS was a silk construct like Lace ngl
I thought that she was an artificial god slowly dying

[wide raft]

Originator of the silk covering pharloom. not silk in general.

[obsidian quail]

isn’t that what we’re talking about with the Haunting, cuz that’s pharloom’s silk

[distant briar]

The weavers were created in Pharloom by a higher being called Grand Mother Silk. This higher being has dominion over silk and called all weavers she created divine. The weavers however caught on that they aren‘t in actuality divine and denied what their creator was saying. The creator had a crashout and hunted the weavers, which made them escape Pharloom or made them hide in shrines which they built in Pharloom. They escaped to various places and one if those places was Hallownest under others. There Hera had a child with the pale king. The weavers who stayed behind in Pharloom had no chance of going up against their god so they were hoping for the prophesised weaver child to save them and they bound their powers in their shrines for Hornet to collect to aid her in her battle against the Higher Being. While the weavers left Grand mother silk fell asleep ( I still don‘t know why really ) and normal bugs started to worship her. A citadel was built around her as god and the silk she produced. Normal bugs wanted the immortality that came with the silk so they artificially tried to consume and operate the silk into their shells to gain immortal life. However at one point grand mother silk woke up and simply took control of the Citadel and the lands around it because they all had the silk that was necessary to control them transplated in their shells already (they were all her puppets). Then she sent out envoys to search the lands around pharloom for the weavers that left and capture them (Im not exactly sure why she did that aswell) and that‘s how hornet was captured.

[muted lantern]

Ok so they literally roofied an elder God to harvest magic thread

[dire flame]

A question, a while ago team cherry stated that every HK ending is canon, but in the Silksong's "True" ending we can see abyss knight, meaning the dream no more ending is actually the canon HK ending?

[wide raft]

That was said before silksong came out. Every timeline was canon to the player's perspective. But only one leads to silksong.

[obsidian quail]

CINEMA

nice Spades

[distant briar]

well if you count the normal standard ss ending canon then the knight could just be the new vessel

[muted lantern]

When is it said they put her to sleep? I completely missed that

[gritty ruin]

Oh that’s very epic

Now I am even more interested in getting the game

[distant briar]

thanks

[obsidian quail]

dude seeing the Knight was a mindfuck

aura farming at the end my goat

[wide raft]

you're in the lore channel and not even played yet? yeesh.

[gilded beacon]

Hell yeah

[obsidian quail]

my main thing is

i wish they explained more, why did the Weavers turn on GMS to that extent

[wide raft]

we'll get more in dlc probably.

[obsidian quail]

they seem to desire freedom, so was she oppressive?

[muted lantern]

Didn't want to be bound in service to a god

[obsidian quail]

there isn’t much said about GMS pre sealing

[gilded beacon]

She does seem pretty control freak kind of god

[obsidian quail]

also, everyone keeps talking about her and Pale Dominion

[gritty ruin]

It took me 3 years to get hk and I knew all the lore

[muted lantern]

Where is it said the citadel put gms to sleep?

[obsidian quail]

but i thought the citadel was established while she was asleep

so how does that make sense

[wide raft]

But yeah. GMS's crashout was pretty justified compared to Radience.

What she made turned their back on her because they were like "nah, fuck off." When told they were better than the rest.

Radience had this new guy show up and their worshippers just went to the newer shinier thing (pale king was the ultimate lamp). So to try and force people to worship and remember them again they infected them with orange jello

[obsidian quail]

Mediph wait

if Citadel was established pre GMS, why do all the bugs blame her and reference her Pale Dominion

how did the Citadel manage to impose on all the other powerful beings there pre GMS

[wide raft]

Metal.

[outer stump]

Yeah you could tell she was noticing the Lace/Pure Vessel parallels pretty much instantly once she got Lace's backstory.

[obsidian quail]

for sure

she has a lot of emotional baggage and it looks like PTSD from Hallownest

i kinda saw Pharloom as her redemption arc

[wide raft]

Look at the three (four) hearts we can collect. Each one of them is something natrual, But compared to metal and machine, fell in comparison to it.

The Architects for example had music that could be eternal and unchanging while the ant queen got old and faded. Metal tools and weapons were stronger than the Coral king's claws and they couldn't stand up to it. Metal in general is the opposite of nature and overwhelms and destroys it.

It was industry and metalworking that pushed out the former powerful beings of Pharloom. And the green prince's were converted 'into' an eternal dancing construct.

[obsidian quail]

ahhh the power of metal

idk, am i missing something

[outer stump]

Though it did have the one place you find lifeblood be the place where you can see Abyss effects in the air before act 3.

[obsidian quail]

it seems like GMS is a victim, everybody just blaming her and she’s like wtf

[wide raft]

even hornet mentions how Pharlooms Metalworks is something seldom seen elsewhere.

[obsidian quail]

why did GMS get blamed for Citadel when she wasn’t even the actual creator

Weavers saying fuck u, Lace saying fuck u

[outer stump]

She's the one who runs the show and has been for a long long while.

[distant briar]

why did Gms search for the weavers and their silk though? Did she want a child? Or need their Silk? But she can spin silk herself

[wide raft]

Lace hated being a false life, and the Weavers didn;'t want to be used as batteries to keep lace alive.

[outer stump]

She might not be physically running about but she's still dispensing orders.

[wide raft]

GMS has a shitload of silk, but it's not infinite.

[obsidian quail]

would she have done that if not for betrayal

post betrayal

[wide raft]

If she could transfer the crest of a powerful weaver into Lace, then Lace could be self sufficient.

[obsidian quail]

should have given Eva to Lace

[wide raft]

But all weavers she found were too diluted to be viable.

[outer stump]

The betrayal of wanting to go somewhere else and be more independent of her? I might not have done multiple playthroughs yet but the Weavers' betrayal was mostly them fleeing for their lives.

[wide raft]

Eva was hidden specifically 'because' that was a risk. But even then Eva was too weak to be used as a crest.

[obsidian quail]

right, fourth part or eighth part

[wide raft]

Eva boosts our own native abilities. But she doesn't give anything else aside from that. A boost to nothing is still nothing.

[obsidian quail]

the Weavers decided they don’t like GMS for ambiguous reasons and put her to sleep

[distant briar]

where was this said?

[distant briar]

and where was it said they put her to sleep?

[wide raft]

implied considering the cages found in the cradle. all the people lost being sent out to find weavers that aren;'t strong enough for 'some reason'

[outer stump]

If they won that throwdown then they wouldn't have run for the hills and gotten hunted down even in other kingdoms.

[wide raft]

And considering the importance of crests mentioned involving weavers, it's a good connection to make

[wide raft]

putting someone to sleep and running is different from winning. They know it's temporary so they make as much space as possible. If you could beat them, then why stop at putting them to a nap

[distant briar]

Grandmother silk could also only be searching for a strong heir. I mean lace said she isn‘t what gms truly wants

[rough siren]

is this guy a masochist?

[obsidian quail]

nah just a sub

[obsidian quail]

Mediph help

they told me that Spades

they put her to sleep and ran for the hills

see ya never GMS

[wide raft]

No, Lace believes GMS wants someone stronger than her. but GMS goes out of her way to protect Lace from the void. Lace 'is' what GMS wants and she's too childish to see that. Hornet was a means to 'complete' lace. But being the impulsive child they are didn't bother to learn the truth

[muted plume]

this

[distant briar]

that makes sense

[obsidian quail]

Lace loathes her existence so she sees everything through that biased lens

[wide raft]

Like honestly, so much of the game could have been solved with some basic communication. Hornet still would have fought for her own survival. But lace probably wouldn't have tried to get the killing blow.

[outer stump]

Do we even have a source for them being the reason why she's "knocked out" (and how knocked out is she? she certainly seemed capable of coming out to brawl when she needed to).

[muted lantern]

Really? That's what she wanted the weavers for? Lace?

[muted plume]

Lace probably gathered that opinion seeing her sister, Phantom, withering away and discarded

My take is GMS wanted a child and phantom was an attempt but ultimately a failure and Lace was the better outcome of that attempt

[wide raft]

The reason we collected the music was to wake her for an audience, and it's why it was separated into three parts. We can find in the weaver harps and glowing tablets about what the weavers did to escape.

[distant briar]

So GMS didn‘t want to be alone since she created the weavers, when they rebelled she scraped that whole weaver thing and tried to create life directly from silk which she stuck with to the end

[muted plume]

So seeing Phantom discarded made Lace think GMS sees her in the same light

[outer stump]

I'd rather trust lace to know what dear old mom is like. Nothing about the game says that she's nice besides sometimes doing the big gestures.

[muted lantern]

So wait was it weavers or the citadel that put gms to sleep

[wide raft]

I mean you can but I need to stress this again and again. Lace has the body and mindset of a literal child. I wouldn't trust them with an cup of water.

[wide raft]

weavers worked with.

[outer stump]

Weavers were part of the citadel at one point.

[muted plume]

GMS literally protects Lace from the void the best she can, that is a gesture showing she doesn't want her to die and in the true ending GMS helps them escape at her own perill just so Lace can live

[distant briar]

she saved lace from the void I think that is enough reason for me

[muted plume]

GMS is an evil deity, but she also does love her child

[obsidian quail]

so the Citadel was established post GMS sleep and Weavers were part of it, then they left to get away from her

[outer stump]

She choose the kid over the kingdom but still as a day to day parent I see nothing I like and a lot of controlling. Her love just strikes me as the profoundly toxic kind.

[obsidian quail]

so they weren’t part of the Citadel very long, is that correct?

[muted lantern]

So gms loved lace, and was willing to sacrifice everyone else to extend her life

When was lace created?

[wide raft]

Long enough for the citadel to start and find out about the whiteward. Probably after the whiteward was made the weavers were like "Fuck this shit I'm out"

[muted plume]

not sure on exact but on some dialogue, Lace has been around even before Pharloom shit the bed

[muted lantern]

Where is that said?

[wide raft]

the keeper at the first bellshrine.

[distant briar]

ok the other hand your not an immortal god and I think if you live through countless bug generations you feel diassociated from the mortal bugs (That‘s why she tried creating immortal ones) and don‘t really care about them anymore since they are bound to die anyway at some point

[muted plume]

the hermit in songclave after you beat her, he talks about even waaaaay back in the old days, Lace saw herself as a sentinel of the Citadel but comments that she was also really rash and arrogant and tended to challenge anything for the slightest reason

[outer stump]

I'm not but I'm going to say that trying to make kids who're stuck with me and under my control for all of eternity is still fucked for an immortal.

[dense willow]

wait skong confirms hornet was trained by vespa?

[outer stump]

Yes

[wide raft]

yes

[muted plume]

Well yeah, GMS loved Lace but GMS was still a god, and the gods in HK tend to have a bit of egos to them

[dense willow]

yay my headcannon is cannon!

[obsidian quail]

what actris is saying though is that’s coming from a perspective that doesn’t match what ur judging

[distant briar]

obviously all the higher beings have some problems. Radiance is an attention whore and Grand mother silk is lonely

[muted plume]

even got her weapon from Vespa's tribe

[obsidian quail]

that’s still u imposing ur own mortal views on a higher being

whatever that entails for them

[dense willow]

yes i just got to that part of the game which is what made me realise

also the whole vespa meaning hornet or wasp thing

[outer stump]

Like the whole game is doing, Pharloom is a massive shitshow because she won rather than being stopped. The game condemns the shit out of her and her approach to life.

[muted plume]

pretty much

[obsidian quail]

i don’t think she won anything

[muted lantern]

Why was phantom abandoned

[muted plume]

yeah, not really saying GMS is a tragic character, more saying there is more reasons to her actions

She is destroying her kingdom for the sake of her daughter

[wide raft]

prototype

[obsidian quail]

but i’m not saying ur perspective is wrong but it’s still a perspective that GMS in verse might not be able to understand

like incapable

[outer stump]

Under all the order she's a selfish beast basically.

[obsidian quail]

all Higher Beings seem pretty selfish

maybe it comes with it?

[muted lantern]

So why did the weavers decide to leave?

[muted plume]

GMS was hunting them

[obsidian quail]

they wanted freedom

hard to feel free when ur God is hanging around in silk upstairs

[muted plume]

oh right, that oo

[distant briar]

why though? Just because they denied being immortal sounds kinda crazy

[obsidian quail]

Weavers sealed/put GMS to sleep, worked with Citadel at the very beginning, then went on their own way

[outer stump]

She is kinda crazy, yes.

[muted plume]

Because it's the same reason Pale King sealed Radiance, GMS wanted dominion over her children, but the Weavers didn't want to be under her dominion so they fled

[muted lantern]

Where is the line saying the weavers denied their divinity or whatever it was

[muted plume]

Looking back at it now, Lace's creation was more of a coping mechanism for GMS

[obsidian quail]

so the Weaver ruins built that Hornet gets power from, that had to be post GMS hunting right

[obsidian quail]

see that’s what i thought

i feel like she’s getting blamed for her response to the Weaver conflict

[outer stump]

One that also makes you wonder just how much of Lace being dependent on her mom for silk was accidental.

[distant briar]

first sinner boss

[obsidian quail]

which probably wouldn’t have happened if Weavers didn’t want freedom

i need to see how GMS was pre Silksleep

[distant briar]

by the way by this logic won‘t lace just slowly die after the true ending?

[muted plume]

No, I still think GMS tried to create a perfect child to mimic life, Phantom confirms that since Lace wasn't the only one

Lace was the closest thing she got to perfect and tried to solve it by feeding her weavers till the problem fixed itself

Hornet I believe was the perfect solution due to her blood of Weaver and Wyrm

[obsidian quail]

because the reasons we’re given don’t seem to paint GMS as abusive or evil

i think we can say at least dominating since that seems to be a Pale being instinct

and Weavers wanted free from that

which is reasonable

[muted plume]

Like Hornet being half weaver is one thing, but she is also half Wyrm which makes her a very rare specimen

[obsidian quail]

that is to say i don’t think there are any true bad guys here

it’s all nuanced with their own personal perspectives

[muted lantern]

Maybe hornet could help? She makes silk doesn't she?

[distant briar]

not more than gms

[muted plume]

and my memory is a bit foggy here but isn't the Pale King also a god?

[obsidian quail]

yes

[covert hollow]

He is

[obsidian quail]

he’s a Pale higher being like GMS

[muted plume]

ok so that would make Hornet a demi-god by right, so Lace being a child of a deity like GMS but needs to be feed constant silk from sacrifices.

Hornet would be the perfect solution due to her bloodline

[outer stump]

But then people being able to make up their own personal narratives for why their crimes against the world are good is one of those ideas that'd just run into some hilarious brick walls.

[distant briar]

a wyrm , and personally I don’t know what that means. For me Higher Beings have dominion over something like GMS has dominion over silk and the radiance over dreams but there are multiple wyrms. But they are just as powerful

[obsidian quail]

PK is a wyrm of higher being status

[distant briar]

dominion over chainsaws

[muted plume]

Legit, I think Pale King would drool at the Citadel

literal paradise for him

[obsidian quail]

those perspectives would simply clash with the perspective of others, which happens irl and in game

[obsidian quail]

we never got see White Palace in its prime

i’m sure it was a sight to see

[outer stump]

He wanted to shut down the Soul Master's immortality experiments, he'd have some real issues with basically every higher up in Pharloom running on the silk experiments.

[muted plume]

I was more joking around the amount of saws

[obsidian quail]

i bet White Palace in its heyday looked insane

[unkempt smelt]

Silksong made me see how easy it is to shit on a god with physical form
no doubt pale king would've thrown hands against radiance if they had a physical form

[muted plume]

Also on the discussion of deities, I would say GMS would be considered a more minor deity

Though GMS was able to resist the void's wrath for a good while

Radiance was just a lot more of an omnipresent deity

GMS's seems less omnipotent

Also makes me wonder since the True ending sorta confirms that P5 ending is canon, if that also means Grimm is alive and kicking

[obsidian quail]

i mean she kinda was doing the same thing wasn’t she, just through Silk instead of Dreams

[muted plume]

true

[obsidian quail]

and honestly to fight the Void off in the fucking sea of it is an insane feat

[muted plume]

also true

[muted plume]

also I say this cause I kinda hope a bit Grimm will be coming back in this game cause I wanna fight him in Silksong's movement and combat system

[obsidian quail]

and it just seems like there’s something special about the Pale ones

they keep making it seem so

[muted plume]

I think the Pale wones may have been onces able to stand their ground against the void

not fully but from the fact GMS was able to resist it for so long makes me think that

[unkempt smelt]

we destroy the nightmare heart instead of helping them this time (peak)

[obsidian quail]

and the Everbloom is Pale

but Void have power of numbers

there’s so much

against singular beings

[muted plume]

I want to see Grimm try and coarxe Hornet into performing the ritual only to get slapped when he bows his head down to speak to her

like looking at Grimm when he bows to the knight, Grimm is in slapping range of Hornet if he does that

[obsidian quail]

also wasn’t it confirmed that the Void is kinda malicious

[muted plume]

and also the fact, slapping a god in the face would be cinema

[obsidian quail]

after all

[muted plume]

the void isn't really evil or good, it is oblivion

it is the end

[obsidian quail]

ehhh

[keen thicket]

was granny silk haunting bugs on purpose?

[obsidian quail]

i wouldn’t call it oblivion in that way

[muted plume]

it doesn't discriminate, it doesn't have motives, it just feeds off anything that has soul and that's it

[obsidian quail]

the Shade Lord gets obliterated into oblivion

when it touched the flower

[muted plume]

the delicate flower ending sorta repulsed it, the shade lord still exists but it is locked in the void

[obsidian quail]

it still has physical presence and quality

it interacts with the world

[keen thicket]

so the canon ending to hk is flower ending?

[muted plume]

I believe so, yeah

[unkempt smelt]

assumably

we do see shade lord for a few frames in the true ending

[obsidian quail]

also Hornet’s journal seems to confirm that the Void is kinda malicious in nature

[keen thicket]

tbh I was fully expecting to fight the shade lord for TE

[muted plume]

yeah true ending confirmed Shade Lord is fully canon

[unkempt smelt]

well it does attack everything it sees

[obsidian quail]

not evil because it’s beyond that but it definitely has some malignancy to it

[muted plume]

I wouldn't call attacking everything it sees malicious in that sense

Malicious would imply it had motive or did it out of desire

The void is more of a primal force of nature

the only exception it seems is the knight which gave thought to the void

[obsidian quail]

sure but Hornet directly says the form it takes shows its nature

cancer isn’t evil

but it’s still malignant

[muted plume]

yeah but the tendrils are more like showing how nature kinda works, it evolves to best suit it's needs. The void consumes and destroys anything living

it doesn't have a reason other than that is it's nature

like the shade lord for example, in P5 you needed to kill a god, so the void took a shape of a god

[outer stump]

I mean isn't Grimm fine either way? They're kicked out from Hallownest but not dead in one path and reborn in the other.

[muted plume]

Grimm is a bit of a very minor god, the nightmare heart needs to be feed in order to sustain itself

if you destroy the lanterns in that one point in hollow knight, I don't think it's banishing Grimm, you are outright ending him

[obsidian quail]

i can tell ur a big void fan

hahahaha

[muted plume]

I am a fan of the eldritch and the lovecraftian sense

the void checks a lot fo spaces in the eldritch sense of things

[obsidian quail]

the Void tendrils show malignancy there’s no other way to put it

the Void isn’t something that thinks

but it is a force of nature with some malignancy to it

[muted plume]

yeah pretty much

[obsidian quail]

so u can’t call it evil but u can say malignant

[muted plume]

the only part of the void that thinks though would be the knight/shade lord, since the true ending shows compassion

there in thought and care

but this also confirms another thing that is kinda terrifying, the void isn't fully under the dominion of the shade lord, the shade lord is a part of the void but not the void itself

[obsidian quail]

it is a malignant eldritch force

[unkempt smelt]

void is like a dog on leash and the knight is its owner

[obsidian quail]

well maybe he has to direct his attention

[muted plume]

yeah pretty much this

[obsidian quail]

kinda like how ur body does all kinds of things without u being aware

[outer stump]

The void seems to be a more Chaos-ish thing as opposed to the various pale beings that all lean towards Order.

[obsidian quail]

i wouldn’t say Chaos because Void is pretty anti life and Chaos is usually in the life realm

i’m a big fan of lovecraftian stuff too

that’s why i hope we get no more void content

[muted plume]

I would call the void more of a form of order born of chaos

The void is a calm lifeless sea

nothing exists, so in that point it is order

that order is born of it devouring all that would enter it, there in it being order born of chaos

order and chaos both are sorta gray terms

[high bane]

The Void seems to just respond automatically to things.

It’s not malicious any more than fire is malicious for burning something, the Void eats whatever gets near it as a matter of course.

[stray urchin]

might be a late or dumb question, but is it ever explained why Pharloom is, uh, the way it is? Like, was it all Silk Mothers or was there some other power structure that caused it to be like that?

[muted plume]

the citadel came into being after the weavers
GMS was around way before it all but it built up over time

The most ancient civilization came from the Sands of Karak

So in my mind, it goes like this
Weavers < Karak < Ants < Citadel

the only more ancient of the things in pharloom I believe is Shellwood

[stray urchin]

no i mean like

[muted plume]

cause twisted child is still sorta, unknown

[stray urchin]

why is Pharloom a dystopian theocracy

[gilded beacon]

It's nature is to consume, that's all is more of a force of nature than a thinking being

[muted plume]

oh, well yeah it is cause of GMS

they worship her but GMS is a god that uses others for her own means

in this sense, she used her faithful to try and make Lace

at least that's from me

[gilded beacon]

GMS is an artificial god or is it natural??
She seems very mechanical tbh

[stray urchin]

so i guess it started from GMS essentially binding others to her will to worship her, as pale beings would, but eventually, the upper echelons of her society essentially created a religion that ultimately ends up exploiting others

[muted plume]

good question, I would say maybe artificial, for two reasons

The lore from a lot of the weavernest suggest the weavers made GMS, there in they made the problem

and that and there is also EVA who seems to be an artificial entity that had godlike abilities

[stray urchin]

but wasnt the first heretic cutscene showed that GMS ascened bugs INTO weavers?

[muted plume]

hmm

good point

[gilded beacon]

I think this just because Lace is a silk construct and I think that GMS is too, and thus she needs silk to survive, she needs weavers or Hornet to survive

[stray urchin]

maybe the reason why the weavers left is because they were trying to usurp GMS? By creating beings like Eva and later on Hornet, they want to essentially make a new god and thats why most of the got merced

[muted plume]

yeah that would also explain why GMS couldn't make life

[stray urchin]

i feel like maybe theres something we're missing

[gilded beacon]

I think that kidnapping Weavers to survive makes more sense than just being mad at them

[stray urchin]

i do like the "twist" that GMS made Lace just because she wanted a kid

and not for some plan

[muted plume]

OK my best explaination, GMS existed in a very minor dominion before the weavers
she then evolved the weavers, where you get the first heretic cutscene
over time she grew and took on the form that would be worshiped by the Weavers, since the weavers are artificers so her having a bit of a mechanical look adds to that

Silk can evolve and improve something but she cannot make life, where is Lace came into play

EVA I believe was the first attempt at making something like Lace but GMS saw it wouldn't work and took on more drastic measures which lead to the Weavers fleeing her

like GMS evolved the Weavers but they were more worshippers not children to her, Silk's entire efforts are based around her wanted to create life for her to cherish, something she cannot do

so the entirity of it all, the weavers, the citadel, everything, was all a big experiment to help her make a child she can call her own

[stray urchin]

so what youre saying is that... The plot is Bloodbornes?

the whole wanting children but unable to create one

[muted plume]

yeah, pretty much

the citadel also considers death a sin, so in that sense GMS just doens't like losing what she has so she wanted to make something immortal, unable to be lost, like her

a lot of this is still fresh so it is a lot of unpack

[stray urchin]

if or when someone can compile all the lore from the artifacts and tablets, we can really eat into it

honestly, i dont feel like getting all of them lol

[muted plume]

but my take in a big sum up is, Silk does not do well with losing things, she grows attached to things, so she wanted to achieve immortality for mortal entities so she would never lose them again

[gilded beacon]

My theory/head canon:

The original Pale Being of Pharloom (Nyleth) died due to the Citadel exploiting them for her silk (lotus do produce silk)
They build a shrine to her and create GMS to be a replacement for Nyleth and generate silk

Since GMS is artificial she can't generate silk forever, She creates the Weavers to make more silk AND care for her, since she needs silk to survive
Weavers flee after discovering that they were just created to be exploited, GMS feels betrayed by her "Kids" and makes new kids (Lace and Phantom)
GMS captures Weavers to stay alive, and wants to capture Hornet since she's part Wyrm and her silk is more powerful

[muted plume]

she wanted ONE thing to call her own and never lose it, ever

[obtuse jackal]

yall they should pin a message if its cannon

[stray urchin]

that, is pretty reasonable

[gilded beacon]

Nyleth and Seth just feel so disconnected to be considered one of the Hearts of Pharloom

[muted plume]

Nyleth is very ancient and Seth I believe was made after one of the backers who died from cancer, no?

correct me if I am wrong but I remember seeing somewhere that Seth was made in honor of one of the backers who died

[gilded beacon]

Yeah, but why is he serving Nyleth?

[gilded beacon]

You are right, but I just like for them to be more involved

And why is the citadel attacking Nyleth's shrine if they themselves built it?

[stray urchin]

the main possibility is that Seth just follows and ancient religion

[muted plume]

I think we would need to dive more into what Nyleth is, cause as of rn a lot of the stuff that has lore is more around the ants, Karak, and GMS and everything surrounding her

Nyleth feels more ancient like the actual spirit of Shellwood itself

[muted plume]

ya know what, this yeah

[stray urchin]

like theres just generation of people who worship Nyleth and is tasked to guard them from the Citadels

[muted plume]

honestly a lot around shellwood is very unknown

like Twisted Child for example, we barely know anything about it other than it is some other eldritch entity

[stray urchin]

the Citadel reminds me a lot of the Hornsent from Elden Ring, a lot of their religion and and even strucutre are bulity literally on top of existing ones

[gilded beacon]

Nyleth feels like Unn, like she created the Shellwood forest

[muted plume]

pretty much

[gilded beacon]

That's why I think that she was once the original Pale Being of Pharloom

[solar agate]

That's the Golden Order

[elder cobalt]

How far do you reckon is between hallownest and pharloom (use lengths of hallownest for units coz why not)

[muted plume]

I don't think Nyleth was a pale being
She is more like a spirit of the woods

it's nature personified

and all three of those bosses were more rivals to GMS

[stray urchin]

im thinking like literally one the other side of the planet

[trim vapor]

is rthere a reason one of the conductor statues looks identical to the unravelled?

[stray urchin]

probably because thats likely to be THE conductor

[gilded beacon]

I get your point, but clearly she was powerful and I'd love to know more about her

[muted plume]

they weren't deities, just really strong bugs

[solar agate]

They are a order, like policeman, they all wear uniforms

[gilded beacon]

Silksong just has a problem with underused characters

[trim vapor]

so then what is the unravelled lore wise?

[muted plume]

oh yeah, I get that

my best explanation is she was a being who become more attuned with the woods and that power lead to worship from others who existed in those woods

more or less she was the apex of those woods

[solar agate]

I didn't really understand the lore of what they were trying to do in Whiteward, seems like a clinic but looked more like they were doing experiments

[gilded beacon]

I feel that she created the forest itself, and thus is worshipped

[muted plume]

since the woods feels more like nature in all it's chaotic order

Nyleth just was the dominative force in those woods

no I don't think she made them, more she was the apex predator of them

[stray urchin]

you know i find it extremely funny that the Citadel has two entrance, one guarded by a guy that throws magma at you and that appears to be a personal entrance for GMS edgy son, while City of Tears has several entrances and like proper checking stations like an actual city would

[gilded beacon]

Maybe the order was like "nature's order" you know what I mean?

[muted plume]

cause you gotta remember the lady in the woods, she is 100% not in relation to Nyleth

[stray urchin]

she did not have relations with that woman

[muted plume]

the witch in the woods honestly still puzzles me

[gilded beacon]

The Grey Root? Yeah she's her own thing

[solar agate]

They just have really good customs control

[muted plume]

there is very little known about her, my best guess is she is like the white lady in a sense, but more dark and twisted

[gilded beacon]

She's clearly the same species as the WL tho

[stray urchin]

hey not all plant eldtrich entities are the same man, lets not discriminate

[gilded beacon]

I'd say that her darkness and parasitic thing is more of her own choice than the species nature

[muted plume]

yeah, and the white lady is more like source of life, the witch in the woods feels like a parasite

also one other thing, after oyu get infected and go back to that hut, she is petrified
a lifeless root

[gilded beacon]

One leeches to life

[stray urchin]

if you know anything about plants, theyre actually very bio diverse and HATE each other and super territorial

[gilded beacon]

Plantsisim? Yeah sure why not

[stray urchin]

like the wildest animal kingdom turf wars aint got nothing on what plants are doing to each other

[gilded beacon]

The fucking "Broom Rape"

[muted plume]

also regarding the twisted child ending for any who have seen it, something emerges at the end

I wanna know more as to what

[gilded beacon]

Root + Weaver + Wyrm?
Man that baby is gonna be powerful

[muted plume]

cause out of EVERYTHING in both games, that is new and unknown to me

[stray urchin]

probably whatever Hornet turns into

some new fucked up eldrith entity

[muted plume]

hornet doesn't turn into it, it is a parasite, it fed off her

and it fed off everything else around her

like if you use the witch crest, it's bind heals you by leeching off enemies

with the cured witch crest, the parasite is pretty much dead and you bound it's power

[stray urchin]

its possible that the parasite end up essentially taking over Hornets and her Silk abilities as well as GMS powers and just being a new eldritch god

[muted plume]

yeah that's what I am thinking, but my main question is what does it come from

I am expecting to see more answers in future content, cause like I said out of everything in this game that one thing is unknown to me

like I cannot make any concrete assumptions about it

the best I can sum it up to is, evil root entity

[stray urchin]

thats prolly just it

it is odd to put so much emphasis on it

[muted plume]

yeah, but I want to see more around it

[stray urchin]

Im still the believer in the Godmaster ending theory cause i want to have the idea in my head that the Hollow Knight is out there chilling on their own adventure

[muted plume]

The Knight is pretty much the god of the void now

so they can go anywhere the void takes them

so they are just chilling

I find it funny in my head just thinking the void going around "Some red girl jumped into the abyss, free food" and the knight just still over in hallownest following it up with sprinting all the way over to pharloom in a panic

[unkempt smelt]

wonder how the shamans that follow the darkness would react if they find out that the void has an actual god now thanks to the creation of a certain wyrm

[covert hollow]

"oh, new god to worship"

Could be exclamation or dread

[muted plume]

"So, you made it out of the void!"

"Yeah my sibling got me out"

"Your what?"

"They are a void god now"

"THEY'RE WHAT?!"

also kinda funny to realize that would technically be Hornet's first time seeing what happened to the knight after the first game

"Oh... so that's what happened"

[summer estuary]

should i come back when i finsished act 3 ending?

[iron whale]

if you want

[flat wolf]

its not canon so who cares

[uncut holly]

In the OG Hollowknight a bosses death particles usually meant if it was infected with the infection or something else. Like Dung Defender had poop fumes that could be mistaken for infection fumes. Grimm had red particles. It seems that really every sinlge enemy and boss in Pharloom is somehow afflicted with the Haunting, with only the bosses in Act 3 and the Heart being exceptions.

It was also stated that Hornet is able to draw silk from soul though so the particles could be that. Im wondering if some enemies like Fly Broodmother give a Haunting tell

[viscid ridge]

Im starting to 100% my wanderers journal, and im in act 3 so the old craws have been replaced by the court of craws varients. Does anyone know where there are still original craws so i can complete their entries?

[uncut holly]

I really hope that we get a DLC on the level of Grimm, that would be awesome

TBF all the DLC where good, there wasnt a single lacking DLC in Hollow Knight

[distant briar]

wait until the Dlc evolves into Hollow knight 3 and it takes another 6 years

[uncut holly]

That will happen but I hope we get a few normal ones before it does

Its the Team Cherry way

Something I do know they want, is to fulfill the various backer requests and characters. Like Sharpe and his friends where supposed to appear in this game and they didnt. I also think they cut back a lot of the Coral Caves so if I had to get the next DLC might be ocean themed. We might learn more about the Crabs

Currently all we know about Crabs is that they where old, they arrived here at the Blasted Cliffs and Sands of Karak. Somehow the whole ocean dried up, and all we see of them is 1 last living Grey Crab Knight at the edge of the world. And also a summarized version of the tower back in its hay day, with the Crab King.

I did think Krust King Khan was kinda easy compared to Karmelita, Green Dancers, and Nyleth.

Especially when you got the short cut, it could have been one of those bosses you attempt over and over, maybe minus the small arena before the fight.

I havent actually fought Watcher at the Edge what do they give you for beating them?

[terse warren]

A memento

[uncut holly]

Is there any lore with it?

[wispy phoenix]

Does anyone know where the OST "red maiden" plays during the game?

[wide raft]

when you solid snake through the slab and break a bugs neck

[wispy phoenix]

What

[wide raft]

you asked me when it plays. that's when it plays. right as you get your gear back

[wispy phoenix]

Wait have I not experienced this

Is this late into act 3?

[wide raft]

depends on if you got captured by the cagebug or walked right into the slab

it's completely missable

[wispy phoenix]

😭 wtf I don't know anything about this

This game keeps surprising me with how much shit there is

[wide raft]

[plain willow]

whats hornet's connection with the white lady? was that her in the red memory?

[wispy phoenix]

What did I have to do to trigger the former? I just remember going to the slab straight up.

[wide raft]

partially raised by her after Herrah went to sleep

[wide raft]

two locations, one in marrow, one in bilewater, there's a fatbug with a cage who can capture you. If you get caught, you get a 'stealth' section to get your gear back and you access the slab without the apostate key

[plain willow]

Herrah is her mother id assume?

[wispy phoenix]

That is crazy I have to see it.

[plain willow]

when was her name mentioned i lowk never saw it anywhere

[wide raft]

If you walked through the slabs front door you won't see it on that file anymore

[plain willow]

i was traversing bilewater and found myself halfway across the map 🥀

actually on the OTHER side of the map

[wispy phoenix]

I see, I think I found the slab by just walking around choral chambers so that's probably why

[wide raft]

Yep, the event flag starts in act 2, but once you enter it. the cagebugs despawn.

[wispy phoenix]

I've been to the marrow like 4 times the entire game and I fucking hate bile water sooo..

[wide raft]

you can trust me. I've played a bit of this.

[wispy phoenix]

Do you know where "strive" plays?

It sounds so familiar

[wide raft]

moorwing

[wispy phoenix]

Was it moorwing only?

[wide raft]

moss mother too

[wispy phoenix]

I thought it might have been that but I thought they would've used Incisive battle for those kind of boss fights

Interesting that those 2 bosses get a different track

[zinc dove]

Could someone explain what happened on the (first) ending of silksong?

[wide raft]

there's three potential first endings be specific]

[zinc dove]

From what I understood, ||Hornet took the stolen silk power from the Silk Mother and paid a high price for it||

[zinc dove]

Woa I didn't know that
||ig the bad ending then||

[wispy phoenix]

I'm assuming he's talking about the one where you just default beat GMS with nothing else

[zinc dove]

Yep

[wispy phoenix]

I loved how your masks slowly turn into weaver masks and your spool turns into spooooool

[wide raft]

Not quite: In the basic Bind ending, Hornet takes in all of GMS's essence, essentially overwhelming her innate wyrmblood and becoming a higher being. And essentially then following instinct.

in the cursed ending, if you never bound the crest properly, the parasite absorbs hornet and GMS to give birth to a new rooted abomination,

In the third ending, Hornet loses, GMS is now free, and exerts direct control over everything using the power she's able to take from Hornet.

[green yoke]

How do you get that third one?

[wide raft]

Lose.

[wispy phoenix]

HUH

[green yoke]

Also question now that I've beaten the game for real: why was Grand Mother Silk obsessed with weavers and having a child? I don't see why she made Lace

[wispy phoenix]

Do you not just like, respawn at a bench

[wide raft]

You do respawn. but after a punishment cutscene

[proven siren]

wheres the ||third shrine|| in ||verdania||

[wide raft]

there's no achievement for it. and it's one time only

[zinc dove]

So there's not really a hidden ending?

[green yoke]

Top right bucko

[proven siren]

thanks also sorry for wrong channel missclicked

[wispy phoenix]

Huh how have I've never noticed that when I died the first time

[gilded beacon]

What are the lore implications of the title theme being "Surface" once you beat Lost Lace?

[zinc dove]

And no secret boss

Like || the Radiance|| in HK

[green yoke]

I mean I would count ||Lost Lace as our Radiance equivalent||

[wide raft]

It's assumed that GML is the higher being who created the weavers. Who, not liking the idea being subservient, decided to leave.

Using that, we can then assume that GML rreally just wanted a child, creating Phantom as a Prototype, and later Lace, however Lace is an ephermeral existance, Forever a child in body and mind. She's incomplete and without GMS sending her silk, she'll eventually fade away. To find a weaver of strength is GMS's goal to bind their crest to Lace and give her true life. But all weavers she's found to that point are too diluted through breeding with other bugs. (1/8th, 1/4th, 1/12th.) and fail.

It's assumed that GML sent out the poachers to capture Hornet. but Lace, feeling Hornet was to be her replacement not lifeline. Freed us at the beginning to throw a wrench in her mother's plan.

[scenic stirrup]

Phantom uses they pronouns in the journal entry this is truly the wokest game of all time

[wide raft]

most are mashing the button to stand quicker

[green yoke]

||Bruh, GMS, just send an invitation who wouldn't want a cool sword daughter/sister||

[wide raft]

if she sent an invitation, well. Hornet's crest would be claimed. Meaning Hornet would die. Most wouldn't accept such a thing.

[green yoke]

People in the general chat calling lil ghost he smh this mfer has no pronouns

[scenic stirrup]

Yesterday i found doomed yaoi in this game too

[wide raft]

Vessels have no gender but they also don't have pronouns. They're whatever people want them to be.

[green yoke]

THEY'RE SO COOL

[wide raft]

they're literally ken-dolls.

[wispy phoenix]

Shit i can't even find it online😭 I'll just watch it when I'm doing the twisted ending

[scenic stirrup]

Idk who phantom lore is i just fought them

Most fair fight in all of silk song tbh

[wide raft]

they're lace's prototype

[green yoke]

They operate THE ENGINE OF SUFFERING

#FREEBILEWATER

[scenic stirrup]

My least favourite boss so far was savage beastfly wtf

🤨

[green yoke]

Yeah that seems to be the usual experience

[scenic stirrup]

And ugh widow bc it throwing a bajillion things at me

[rancid dirge]

what’s GML again ?

[plush bridge]

I think they're misacronyming Grand Mother Silk.

[wide raft]

grand mother silk

[rancid dirge]

oh

GMS i understand

[wide raft]

also what are you saying misacronyming? that's literally her name.

[plush bridge]

Why the L?

[wide raft]

oh. typo

[rancid dirge]

honestly i joined cuz i couldn’t connect on why she went crazy and corrupted her kingdom with silk

[wide raft]

not a misacronym. just a typo

[rancid dirge]

what does it mean ?

[wide raft]

s'just her name.

[rancid dirge]

but why the L then

[wide raft]

Because it was a typo

[rancid dirge]

that doesn’t help me

[wide raft]

it doesn't change the details of what was written

[plush bridge]

But also, i'm unsure if Silk made the Weavers, given that curious cutscene with First Sinner where it seemingly shows their natural evolution.

[wide raft]

I'm pretty sure GMS just pushes the story she created them, and the first sinner is just someone who was like "Um actually" which is what her sin is.

[rancid dirge]

it doesn’t help on what you’re talking about, i thought GML was someone else

[wide raft]

because Higher beings are vain as hell.

[wide raft]

Reread the thing and just replace "L" with "S" the details don't change because of one typo

[rancid dirge]

funny that in french they’re referred as " a creature " which is feminine in french but work for everything, they could have used non-binary pronouns tho

[wide raft]

But as for corrupting the kingdom with silk, that wasn't actually her doing. That was from the bugs of Pharloom realizing that they can extend their lives by implanting silk into their shells. Hence the Whiteward experiments. It's why every bug in pharloom has silk in them to a degree. GMS woke up and realized "Oh wait I can use this" and the Haunting is just her taking control of those who stupidly shoved foreign objects into their bodies.

[zinc dove]

What is Hornet exactly? Apparently she's an offspring of a weaver and "the Wyrm" (I assume that's the Pale King)

[wide raft]

that's exactly what she is.

[rancid dirge]

literally

but is she more weaver or Wyrm

[wide raft]

she's 50/50

Her mother is a weaver. Her father is a Wyrm

[wispy phoenix]

GMS surely seems hella powerless for a higher being..

[zinc dove]

Yea that's why she said to the Knight they were siblings

[wide raft]

Same father different mothers.

[rancid dirge]

interesting

[zinc dove]

Always with the objective of completing Lace? Or why'd he take control

[plush bridge]

I wouldn't really say that. I imagine something like the Haunting could happen anyways, but the bugs just made it absurdly easy for them.

[wide raft]

She was hibernating until we woke her from her nap with song. We kick her ass because she's still groggy. (and because it has to be doable for people doing cursed ending runs) But if you take a step back and see what she does later? We need the Everbloom to dive into the abyss, and it lasts a short amount of time during the dive and breaks up completely on the ascent. GMS is buried deep in the abyss lake for quite a bit longer, and holding it off from eating her and Lace. The White lady said the everbloom was the only thing they had that could resist the void. And yet GMS is holding back the entire lake on her own. while missing an arm. She's far from weak

[wide raft]

The objective is always completing lace and finishing her daughter. The haunting just gives her more tools to search for viable weavers with

[zinc dove]

And that's when she found out that all weavers weren't enough to fulfill her objective, only Hornet

[wide raft]

I mean, Hornet was 'good enough' theoretically any pureblooded weaver could work. Hornet was just one generation away from pureblood. and her Wyrm blood meant she had a malleable crest. So it definitely made her a priority, but I'm sure if an alternative popped up that was less bitey, they would have taken it.

[green yoke]

Wonder why the First Sinner wasn't used

Was she simply too uncontrollable

[zinc dove]

Is there any reason why Lace betrayed her mother?

[zinc dove]

True

[green yoke]

Kids will rebel and all that. Also she's probably mad about being a literal homunculus

[wide raft]

She was sealed with Weaver magic, so it's entirely possible that GMS just didn't know she was there.

[rancid dirge]

I’m not sure we can measure an entity strength just by how easily it was to beat it, and she was pretty tough imo

[white panther]

she was a little bit jelly of us and went full teenager rebel age

[zinc dove]

Understandable LMAO

[green yoke]

I mean, she was sealed in the prison for a certain crime, though. That assumes she wasn't already there and the prison built around her

[white panther]

Do we know if there is any specific reason for the Bell Beast being stuck on that very strong silk? or even who did it. iirc we only see that type of silk on 2 or 3 places on the whole map

[uncut holly]

I think the Weavers rebelled because they where being used for labor. They built the Citadel and felt tricked

[rancid dirge]

got silly and jumped in the silk, ended being stuck

idk but that doesn’t sound very important

[wide raft]

The Slab wasn't even made by the citadel. It was made by those who believed they weren't pure enough to complete the pilgrimage and so they stay there until they believe they become pure enough to continue. there's one guy in a cell you can needolin to get dialogue out of.

Ultimately, the First Sinner probably wanted to fight GMS, but the other weavers as they were leaving were like "No, you can't" and sealed her in a time vault because it's entirely likely if GMS finished Lace she'd want to make more kids, which means more sacrificed weavers.

As for the bellbeast being stuck. It's directly under Bellhart. Probably just more of widows threads extending further through the bells.

[green yoke]

Oh god the First Sinner got put in Time Prison

[unkempt smelt]

im more curious how a bell beast of all bosses gave out silk heart as a reward

[uncut holly]

I thought The Slab was where the Flies once lived and then they where imprisoned there by the Citadel. Kind of like a reservation they just sent prisoners there and let them deal with them, like Australia

[wide raft]

Widow was the only Weaver to remain loyal to GMS, but she couldn't be used because she's 'broken' hence why she doesn't have her goofy ass mask. Her crest was probably damaged. And that's most likely Widows silk heart we got through proximity.

Bell beast was actively resisting hanging around like all the Bellhart residents. So Widow was probably actively channeling power to try and subdue it. We break the threads. that power has no where to go and Hornet yoinks it up. Hence why we can beat her. We've already got her powerup, now we're just stealing her talent.

[white panther]

many stations have a similar style to the capital and the bell beast is THE thing that can connect the realms and places, and there is a whole voluntary system built around them, so MAYBE there is some effort and reason in trapping it

[rancid dirge]

i thought she did something against the citadel so they decided to punish them by putting needles in her shell unallowing her to product silk and removed her mask

[wispy phoenix]

One question tho, if we are the ones who woke her up, how are bugs already controlled by her before we got there

[wide raft]

The needles look like the ones we can get from the whiteward. so I'm more inclined to believe they're something to help her use silk despite the broken crest.

[high bane]

She’s controlling them in her sleep, assumably.

[wide raft]

How did the Radience control people through the infection despite being sealed? Same reason. There was an intent baked into the silk being used. people with too much became subjected to it

[rancid dirge]

logs say that she can’t product silk because of the needles

[mellow forge]

not sure if anyones discovered this, but im pretty sure lace and phantom are sisters

[rancid dirge]

is there another being who can product silk in addition of hornet, weavers and GMS ?

[wide raft]

this is also from Hornet's perspective, And she doesn't know about the Whiteward at that point. We don't know about the broken crest, the needles could be the only reason she's able to use it at all despite being unable to produce.

[rancid dirge]

i read she’s a prototype before lace

[mellow forge]

i found an empty tank in the organ before you fight her, playing needolin has an image of her in the tank and lace singing "why us sister she spun us just to break" or something like that

[high bane]

Does Widow actually produce any silk? It looked more to me like she was just pulling on it, using the threads that already existed. Her entry says something similar.

[wide raft]

She's a weaver but broken.

[clever rapids]

bruh my pc crashed during ths seamstress dialogue did anyone record it

[mellow forge]

this the dialogue and the fact she explodes into silk when you kill her i feel like confirms it

[rancid dirge]

maybe she got punished and they removed her ability to product silk and imposed her to use silk from GMS instead of her own silk

worst humiliation for a weaver

[wide raft]

My theory is that she's the one who sealed the First Sinner, hence why she's essentially broken now, And the needles she's been given are a way for her to keep working. Because she's very specifically the last loyal weaver to GMS

It's not a punishment if it lets her keep doing her job of keeping the riffraff out.

[high bane]

I’d assume that the other Weavers bound Widow, since they were opposing Silk and they would’ve had access to the pins.

[white panther]

uhum, uhum

[wide raft]

The Pins are whiteward developed. I highly doubt weavers would approve of anything made there

[solar agate]

That's a mirror tho' 😂

[high bane]

Of course they would, it’s all their stuff. They might’ve left the Citadel eventually, but they were honoured by it and some of its members still serve the Weavers through Hornet.

[mellow forge]

ahaha that makes more sense

[hasty oak]

Ngl I thought it was a tank too

[high bane]

Are we sure it wasn’t? It looks like Eva’s tank.

[wide raft]

The whiteward was very specifically a perversion of weaver design. It was a method to try and give silk to 'any' bug. The Whiteward more than likely was the final straw to make them all leave

like that whole place was just body horror

[solar agate]

Mhm contextually a tank might make more sense

[zinc dove]

it's a goofy mask that's true

[white panther]

i mean, Phantom seems made of Silk after death, Hornet says its probably a creature "strung from Silk"
this alone is enough to give a huge impression that maybe Phantom is an early version of Lace

[wary plover]

I've just saved the citadel and I'm ready to be spoiled! Hah

[high bane]

Whiteward’s just another extension of what the Weavers were already doing. They tried to create life with Silk, trying to extend life is hardly a stretch.

[wary plover]

She did learn an ability from phantom so I would assume phantom is silk related. Also if you play music at the mirror in the exhaust you literally see backstory

[hasty oak]

Is there any lore reason as to the placements of the silk hearts? They seem kinda arbitrary to me

[wary plover]

It looks like a bum bum

[rancid dirge]

sphere head

[zinc dove]

built like chibi

[green yoke]

I mean the Untethered seems appropriate as does Lace 2

[high bane]

You get all of them from people who would’ve had a “Silk heart”. Two are from things made from silk, one is an actual Weaver.

[hasty oak]

The bell beast is made of silk?

[wide raft]

No but it's covered in it, and potentially the silk around it comes directly from widow

[wary plover]

The most random thing in silksong i think is how garmond and shakra sometimes help you in battles while sherma sometimes randomly appears and attacks you

[hasty oak]

Sherma?!

[wary plover]

It's probably one of the reasons why I think sherma is not as innocent as he seems if he can so easily be controlled by silk

Yeah he comes in blocking your attacks then you knock him out and the next time you see him he's normal again

[high bane]

I’ve never seen this happen.

[hasty oak]

Same wow

[wide raft]

Every bug in pharloom has silk in them.

[wary plover]

Really because it's pretty early into the game

[high bane]

We still don’t know what the prerequisites for getting Haunted are, it seems to just be anyone that Silk is aware of.

With some level of unwillingness preventing it.

[green yoke]

Yeah what

[wary plover]

How can you never see sherma attack you if you've played through the entire game

[high bane]

Might just not be a guaranteed thing.

[green yoke]

I mean like

I dunno I never saw it

[wide raft]

yeah that's news to me and I've 100%ed twice, once on normal once on steel soul

[hasty oak]

Lol idk

[green yoke]

Where does it happen

[wide raft]

Are you confusing them with the little jumping normal enemy bugs?

[wary plover]

First time is in one of the gauntlets in the deep docks. He's got his weird hat but he's using it as a shield

[wide raft]

Oh! no that's not sherma, that's just a fat shield bug

[green yoke]

Bro that's just a shield enemy

[wary plover]

Ooh okay that makes so much sense now

[hasty oak]

Damn I just started steel soul after 100% my first play through

[green yoke]

lmao Sherma attacking us

[wary plover]

I went the entire game thinking sherma hates me

[green yoke]

He would NEVER

[hasty oak]

😭😭😭

[trail crag]

Can someone explain the true ending to me? Is the hollow knight saving hornet?

[wide raft]

No

[wide raft]

The hollow knight never shows up. the GHOST finds Hornet floating and is like "Well, I'm not 'supposed' to. but you're my sister so I'll bail you out just this one time."

[trail crag]

wdym the ghost?

[green yoke]

I feel like this is what they meant but so many people make that goof

[wide raft]

The Ghost is your player from HK1

[green yoke]

The Hollow Knight is the big guy you fight at the end of Hollow Knight

[trail crag]

Oh i see i thought the protagonist could also be called the hollow knight nvm

[wide raft]

No that was a title specifically given to the pale king's chosen vessel

[trail crag]

I forgot the true ending of the first fame tbh

[green yoke]

Looking forward to Mossbag covering this game ngl

[hasty oak]

Petition to name the MC Hungry Knight

[green yoke]

Silent Knight

[trail crag]

passing of the age saying to be continued confuses me tho

like i have no idea how the story moves on from here

[hasty oak]

Truuee

[trail crag]

i'm guessing dlc? idk

[wide raft]

Mr Mushroom is a trip. Please look forward to Hollow Knight 3

[green yoke]

Lace and Hornet live together in Bellhart for a while before departing for new lands (also Hornet smooches Shakra, team cherry told me)

[wide raft]

Remember: Lace is physically and mentally a child. Please stop shipping them with Hornet.

[green yoke]

When did i

[wide raft]

It's a general statement

[hasty oak]

I felt so sad in act 3 when I visited different NPCs again and saw some of them dead

[green yoke]

Lace is a smol bean

[trail crag]

lost lace was a very annoying fight

[wide raft]

the bone bottom settlement moved to where the original flea camp was

[trail crag]

yeah i kinda disliked act 3 bc it's like the world is destroyed for the rest of your playthrough it's a bit sad

[green yoke]

I could FEEL myself improving throughout though

Genuinely have no idea how to fight her normal tho, getting nail hits in is hell

[green yoke]

Very Dragon's Dogma

[trail crag]

i did a witch crest build fully around causing damage by binding which went well

[hasty oak]

Yes that made me very happy seeing Flick survive, but one of my personal favourites was that guy constantly running in the underworks

[wide raft]

Parry is god against lost Lace. Even more with shaman and lightning organ

[hasty oak]

I was hoping he'd be free or something, I guess he is in a sense...

[trail crag]

does it work on her void attacks?

[wary plover]

Can someone explain the story to me, is gms evil or not

[green yoke]

They knew Shaman was super busted good so they had to nerf it by forcing you to heal on the ground

[green yoke]

Evil and good aren't really applicable to Higher Beings

[trail crag]

in some ways yes, in other ways no

[wide raft]

not the void wave or goop sling, but the rest yes

[trail crag]

like the only good thing gms did was holding back the void to try to save silk

[wary plover]

Why did Gms use silk to attack hornet, why is she trying to capture hornet, what does the abyss have to do with it, and why does the abyss save hornet in the end

[trail crag]

i think she's trying to prevent hornet from taking over bc she knows hornet is there to kill her

the void saves hornet bc it's the protagonist from the first game and they're half siblings as well as friends so he saves her

[hasty oak]

Hornet herself mentions a 'pull' inside her to take over GMS' position which is what the bad ending is I think

[wide raft]

She wants Hornet's Crest to make Lace a real bug. Silk is her main method of attack. The snails tricked Hornet into using an abyss trap and because Lace got in the way, GMS kept her barrier up to protect her which meant all the silk spread throughout pharloom got covered in the black goo and started making everything collapse.

If hornet was grabbed and pulled in, GMS probably would have just seen it as a pyrric victory and accepted defeat.

[wary plover]

Wait the snails are evil? Is nuu evil

[green yoke]

1: because Silk is what she does/is

2: she needs a strong Weaver to bind with Lace

3: the Snail Shamans use it to trap GMS and she gets real mad and starts trying to break it because her silly goofball daughter got stuck in there

4: the Ghost recognises their sibling

[high bane]

Silk also wants to kill all the Weavers and anyone related to them

[wide raft]

The snails aren't evil. They just have an unhealthy obsession with void stuff

[hasty oak]

The snail shamans worship void

Idk bout nuu

[green yoke]

Don't their lore tablets have a bunch of records of bug sacrifice or did I misread what those meant

[wide raft]

they believed sacrifice brought them closer to void yes

[hasty oak]

They did indeed sacrifice live pilgrims

[green yoke]

Imma call the snails a little evil then

[high bane]

So they’re a little evil.

[vagrant mortar]

How do i get shaman and lightning organ?

[green yoke]

Not as much as whoever ran Whiteward but still

[wary plover]

OMG THAT IS WHY THE SHAMAN WAS so nice in the first game

That's why all the snails have void spells omg

[vagrant mortar]

Thats cool omds

[wary plover]

Omg this all makes sense

[hasty oak]

You know I never noticed that myself nice spot

[wide raft]

Act 3, coral highlands. You can ascend into the roof of the tall room above blasted steps room

[vagrant mortar]

Ofc its act 3 🥀

[wide raft]

you can get the organ in act 1

but shaman is the 7th and last crest

[vagrant mortar]

How does one get organ and what does it do

[hasty oak]

The intro to act 3 is elite though

[vagrant mortar]

I aint there yet

[wide raft]

You kill the boss at the top to get the tool. and it infuses all silk skills with lightning damage

[trail crag]

shaman crest is good but im sorry witch crest is cracked op

[vagrant mortar]

Im exploring alot before beating ||lace 2||

[vagrant mortar]

What boss

[wide raft]

against lost lace Shaman is godly

[vagrant mortar]

I need that bad

[wide raft]

How about you go do it instead of constantly asking if you want it.

[trail crag]

tbh i spammed the robot flies with poison in that fight and they easily took out half her health in phase two, which you cant do with shaman

[hasty oak]

Apparently the twin mirrors + double bind support tool + witch crest bind is one of the highest single damage sources you can dish out

[vagrant mortar]

No like im asking what the boss and how to get there…

[wide raft]

you either want your silk abilities to do a bit more damage. or you don't. regardless if you want 100% you gotta do it

[green yoke]

Shaman + Weaverlight allowing you to passively regen enough for a Silk Skill was the single biggest W

[trail crag]

yup that's what i run

[wide raft]

I literally told you where to go. Top of coral

[wary plover]

What does grandmother silk have to do with pharloom and the pilgrimage

[vagrant mortar]

Shi mb didnt see that

[wary plover]

Is the interactive map incomplete because I don't see coral highlands there

[wide raft]

under the mountain, the pink area.

[green yoke]

Okay big question: how aware of GMS was the greater nation of Pharloom? Did the bugs in the High Halls even know? Or did they consider the Silk dregs to be like, a blessing from a mysterious heavenly force

[trail crag]

also add the warding bell to that and injector band

[vagrant mortar]

To get to coral tower do i need the skill that flings me up?

[wary plover]

That's sands of Karan

[wide raft]

right above it

see where it says voltnest

[hasty oak]

OOHH warding bell is good I didn't think of that

[wide raft]

Coral highlands is sands of karak

because the whole place is coral

[hasty oak]

Unfortunately nothing compares to feral hornet with beast crest

Even if it's the worst for traversal lol

[wary plover]

Why is there ants in coral tower and why does it say origin of water when there's no water in a 64 mile radius

[trail crag]

i HATE beast crest i refuse to use it

[trail crag]

they're not ants

[wide raft]

Beast is amazing for clearing enemies

[novel eagle]

barnacle bay was meant to be a bigger area originally

[trail crag]

they're coral creatures

[wide raft]

Also Coral land are crabs and shrimp. Fun fact. Shrimps is bugs

[hasty oak]

Whattt but it's so funny

[austere gate]

u never heard of the trope of lush aquatic spaces rendered deserted after a long time?

[trail crag]

what's your build for it

[wary plover]

.... lol that seems like the weirdest thing but I don't see how that's impossible

So yeah sure

[hasty oak]

Longclaw, injector bands, tacks, and plasmium syringe are the most important for me though honestly I never really optimised any crest

[austere gate]

it literally happens in real life too, main inspiration being the aral sea

[hasty oak]

Plasmium the most important in case you can't get hits to heal

But yes beast crest is a bit of a meme

[austere gate]

or on a grander scale, the sahara used to be lush millions of years ago

[hasty oak]

Was that the sea drained by diverting rivers for clothes manufacture?

[trail crag]

anyone know what the point of spider strings is?

[wary plover]

That's cool. I can't imagine that but I would assume it would be like the Aral Sea I just looked it up

[wary plover]

Wait wait we drained the sea? Humans drained the sea

[lapis geode]

Quick question: if in HK we have special item such as 'Dream nail' then the special item for Silksong....

Is just Needolin???
Or I miss something. I've just got the needolin and been using it to make some NPC sings, or stun some enemies like they're being posessed🧐

Enlighten me please.

[green yoke]

Yep it's needolin

[wary plover]

Just needolin? Man it's the needolin,

[austere gate]

one could argue karak got deliberately deserted by the church much how viridia was supposedly destroyed for not being subservient to the church

[wary plover]

Wait there's a church in the lore? And what is Viridia is it Verdania

[austere gate]

it evaporated after human intervention and overuse, yes

[lapis geode]

Oww...
Aight, just to be sure: the reason we can make certain enemy to be like, suddenly got entangled by silk and automatically "sing like being posessed"

Is because.... ughhh...idk.

[austere gate]

oops yea verdania

[flat totem]

Did you guys see the edge of Pharloom that alludes to being connected to Hallownest's Howling Cliffs

[wary plover]

It's because the silk is reverberating with the music

[wary plover]

Where, which edge

[austere gate]

and i feel like the church is pretty obvious?? its literally the entire map of act 2

[green yoke]

The world outside these kingdoms appears to be harsh indeed

[austere gate]

citadel, church, all the same

[lapis geode]

...just that? Mere melody can control bugs?

I don't believe it.

[flat totem]

I have to find it again, but I remember staring at the aesthetic and going crazy because it was the same color, aesthetic, and wind sounds as howling cliffs. It's on the bottom right and through a gate

[nova sluice]

Well, music is a big part of Silksong

[green yoke]

Melody through resonant Silk thread

[austere gate]

the game is called silksong brother

there are two central themes, silk and song

[wary plover]

The silk was controlling the bugs already, the melody is just playing with the silk

[lapis geode]

Ahh, I see...
Is there any particular NPC I can talk to gain more lore? The best I found is stil the guy at Songclave

[wary plover]

Don't be a zote, be a sherma.

[hasty oak]

That makes sense I was just thinking bugs liked to sing but if even the hostile ones do it too then this explains it

[nova sluice]

Music made by a wyrm/weaver with special silk and magic that can also resonate with GMS silk that is controlling them

[flat totem]

I mean, the artifact guy is one of them. That and the city NPCs.

[wary plover]

Was it ever explained why music is culturally important to pharloom?

[austere gate]

music was used to control bugs too in a sense, with the higher orders of the citadel all being choir themed

[flat totem]

Most of the lore though is gotten through the Needolin imo.

SO much lore through Needolin

[lapis geode]

Some youtuber still not making any lore videos (especialy Moss Bag) so seeking it myself is actually kinda fun.

Thanks though🤝

[green yoke]

So like, did the Citadel know about Grand Mother Silk? It seems like she's not nearly as prevalent as the Pale King. Did even the Melody Holders know?

[austere gate]

the psalm cylinders also illustrate how song was used to direct bugs through basically ascension

[flat totem]

The lore in this game is actually insane. Gonna be a while before anybody makes something accurate

[broken fern]

is it not all but confirmed that the godhome delicate flower ending is canon for hk? how else would hornet be aware of the void absorbing power of the flower?

[wary plover]

Oh, I mean the outside world is all connected, but I don't know if it's next to howling cliffs

[nova sluice]

They have a monarch (Silk) and a parliament based on music (Song). They know each other

[austere gate]

i mean she has a whole ass section of the top of the citadel dedicated to her, i feel like its one of those things where only highest ranking members are in on the secret

[lapis geode]

I kinda think they're actually just a couple feet away.

Like one giant human step is the distance between Pharloom and Hallownest.

[austere gate]

the key was hidden in song among three of the highest ranking members

[hasty oak]

You see I thought that too but then in her memories we see the white lady show it to her, not that scene specifically

[dry heart]

what is the needolin dialogue on the mirror talking about in exhaust organ? i dont get it

[flat totem]

Ofc it's not confirmed, but I did a png color test and they match the hex color codes, and overlay design with shells, and the noise so I think it definitely is

[wary plover]

What is Silk that people keep talking about, is it gms

[wary plover]

I would assume yes

[nova sluice]

Ye, it's her name

[austere gate]

lace and phantom are siblings, and distraught about their role in pharloom

[wary plover]

Wait what is the parliament based on music thing

[nova sluice]

Where in the game are you at the moment?

[wary plover]

Let's just say I've seen the true ending

[hasty oak]

And also in the true ending the shade lord flashes on screen for a brief moment when the ghost saves Hornet so I think the ending where it's unleashed is canon

[flat totem]

Yeah the NPCs mention the monarch. That and her being a girl? I think the pilgrims didn't though. And they mention silk a lot-- so I'm assuming they know it's a weaver

[dry heart]

that kinda looked like pale king in the mirror so i got confused

[nova sluice]

"Seen" as in YouTube or did you play the whole thing? I don't wanna give huge spoilers out of nowhere ofc

[whole holly]

what are Pilgrims worshipping?

[austere gate]

nope its the contour of phantom

who just like lace is made of silk

[wary plover]

On YouTube. I've personally collected 2 of the three melodies

[kind pagoda]

anyone has a document about the lore so far?

[flat totem]

Oh so you haven't seen the act 3 ending?

Or you have, but you're going about the most common ending?

[whole holly]

they don't seem to be aware of GMS, so what are worshipping really? do they think citadel is heaven?

[wary plover]

I've seen the hollow knight appearing ending

[flat totem]

Yeah, they do.

[nova sluice]

Oh cool! So please keep going and see the things by yourself first! We will be here after you are done ☀️ read the cylinders you get and etc, they also give huge parts of the lore

[dry heart]

is this real by the way i genuinely dont know pls yes or no answer im not there yet

[wary plover]

Yes why wouldn't it be real? Of course

Don't doubt this channel

[austere gate]

i gotta say i was just glad i could play this game completely front to back without getting anything spoiled by a random ass youtube thumbnail or whatever

[wary plover]

I hate YouTube thumbnails, I get so mad

[flat totem]

Trying to 100% this very early, also gave me a lot of things that nobody found yet-- including hidden bosses.

[hasty oak]

Same I avoided everything like the plague

[dry heart]

i cant tell if this is irony

but i saw that same youtube thumbnail

[flat totem]

If you guys haven't already, I recommend re-exploring the entire map with Silk Soar. There's a lot more content

[nova sluice]

"nobody" is a strong word but ye, it's cool to play blind and find things on your own

[dry heart]

so uhm

[wary plover]

Omg it's real. Stop doubting. It's 100% no joke real. Just ask people. Ask them go on ask anyone why would they lie to you

[flat totem]

Well yeah-- "nobody" indeed, because I got the act 3 ending on the second day

All my achievements were on 0.01%

[dry heart]

damn is it the act 3 main ending

[wary plover]

Who is the character in your profile pic btw

[hasty oak]

Anyone know why Karmelita was the thing sustaining the Far Fields? Like what powers do the old hearts hold over Pharloom

[flat totem]

Gyomei

[nova sluice]

So...at least 400~800 people had done it before

[flat totem]

No way you're seriously nit picking me saying nobody in this context, brother 💀

[hasty oak]

I mean the NPC after the fight explains that the land will lose is forestry and stuff so will the same happen to shellwood as well?

[safe ice]

Just beat the game!!! Here are my notes:
-The theme of the first game was discovery; the theme of the second game seems to be devotion. This works for a Metroidvania and its sequel.
-I find it interesting that Hornet seems to possess agency which differs from the player’s (not to the degree of Deltarune, just, sometimes she says things you wouldn’t) but it fits the transition away from the Vessel. It is fun how she appears to undergo character development over the course of completing all the wishes.
-Hornet is doing this because people are after her and she can’t escape, but the Pilgrims are doing this because of a fanatical devotion. This seems to mirror Team Cherry vs. the players.

[flat totem]

It's interesting you say Hornet's doing this because people are after her, because she makes mention multiple times that she's scaling the citadel intentionally, to see who brought her here.

I think she has the ability to escape if she wanted to, but she's concerned because the monarch is of her same nature.

[hasty oak]

If you go to the edge of the blasted steps she mentions that they'll likely just come after her again

[flat totem]

Oh, when I did it, it mentioned that "her mission wasn't finished"

Or there will still things that needed to be done

[safe ice]

Yeah, I got this one!

[hasty oak]

I mean I think it's the same thing, the mission being to stop the citadel bugs from coming after her again

[flat totem]

I still think she's capable enough to leave, and also doing it out of her own will-- rather than being forced or unable to leave

Especially with the language she uses with the npcs throughout the game in all 3 acts

[safe ice]

I just think it's kind of silly to imagine Team Cherry putting the pressure created by Silksong's hype into Hornet's motivation

[flat totem]

Well when you word it like "Silksong's hype into Hornet's motivation", it sounds silly. But in reality, it's just:

hey, why tf is everybody being possessed by silk? and why tf was I brought here? they must know about my nature. wtf is going on. I intend to find out

[safe ice]

Or, sorry, more like Team Cherry making the Pilgrims a portrayal of the fans

[flat totem]

Oh? 💀

[safe ice]

Devoted to something they do not know because they have been told it is good

With blind faith and unwavering commitment to die again and again

[flat totem]

Idk if fans were "dying again and again" for this game, and sacrificing children down a ravine like they do in this game, but sure

anybody else think Groal the Great is related to Soul Tyrant in the first game?

They look similar, float similarly, and have soul capabilities, and shoot orbs.

[limpid summit]

Maybe not explicitly related but similar style of Soul stealing

Probably like a spiritual successor type

[formal geyser]

Hornet wasnt pressured she felt the duty to not see a kingdom fall also because she would be attacked again bu mother silk

[limpid summit]

Who knows maybe

[safe ice]

The first part comes over time throughout her journey and is part of her character development; the second part is her initial motivation and is the "pressure" I was describing

[flat totem]

Somewhere in the game, it's said that

#1 Groal fused his power with the maggots and environment here.
#2 He had an obsession or pursuit into the world of soul which is similar to the area the Soul Tyrant was in, where his kind were academics pursuing soul

Not to say that they're the same person, but definitely related imo.

Also, they have similar eyes and 4 leg structure

[hasty oak]

Also I think the reason he specifically uses vengeful spirit is because the bilewater residents hated the citadel

[flat totem]

J a theory

[flat totem]

Was the bilewater section included in the memorium? I don't think it was, right? Same with whispering thicket and some other areas

[hasty oak]

I don't think so

[terse warren]

The eyes don't look similar at all and also groal has two more limbs

[flat totem]

We can't see whether or not he has the extra two limbs on Soul Master because of his cloak. And I'm not saying they're the same-- but yeah, I would say they are similar 😭 They're both ovals near the top of the head, albeit that's easy to call similar.

[frozen shell]

So embrace the void is the canon ending

[spark valve]

It’s ambiguous between that and dream no more

[storm spruce]

why does Hornet ||killing bosses inside a dream causes that character to die irl?|| Act 3

[frozen shell]

Right but with the ||shade lord|| and the void being not calmed makes me think dream no more would be impossible

[spark valve]

It’s not impossible

[warm ocean]

Dream no more is the only right ending in my opinion lol

[spark valve]

Shade lord isn’t actually there it’s a hallucination and void should really be calm either way but whatever they’re hand waving what void heart does

[frozen shell]

See id agree it makes the most narrative sense

[frozen shell]

Ok yeah that does sort of make sense then

So maybe dlc will see the shade lord actually form then

[sinful nimbus]

Void character assassination 😔

"it wants to consume all of pharloom" stfu

[naive crag]

you do it for ||hearts|| which is basically their power

[frozen shell]

Its also weird how both void and lifeblood are now shown to be infection like in nature

[grand kayak]

Isn't the reason the void is so fucked up this time because ||the grand mothers silk is carrying it too far. If the grand mother just fucking died instead of holding on it might have been fine||

[frozen shell]

She held onto her life to protect Lace, in doing so the void soaked her silk and therefore her control over pharloom

[warm ocean]

||liveblood was alaways a destructive force, that's why it was prohibited in hallownest||

[grand kayak]

Like the reason the void ||is affecting all those enemies instead of just eating them is only because the silk is there||

[spark valve]

yes

[grand kayak]

||lifeblood at least seems a much less destructive infection than the infection was at least. Since the alchemist guy is still sentient even when he's infected. Lifeblood seems like its a bit more symbiotic than the infection because it does have benefits for the user regardless||

[spark valve]

and yes

[spark valve]

infected bugs are also lucid to some degree (eg moss prophet) and also somewhat symbiotic in some respects since it makes bugs stronger, the biggest difference is maybe virulence, for lack of a better word, lifeblood may not spread on its own if you aren't injecting shit with it

or at least may not infect on its own

[warm ocean]

||I think it can spread on it's own. Look at the difference in size of liveblood in wormways between act 2 and 3||

[frozen shell]

I mean the worms weren’t injected by it

[spark valve]

the alchemist mentions having been injecting it into the fauna

My assistant and I have been injecting Plasmium into the local flora and fauna since we arrived

[warm ocean]

||yes, he brought the liveblood (plasmium) by injecting it. But the growth of it between act 2 and 3 is it's own growth||

[spark valve]

yes

but that's not what I was talking about

i was talking about new things getting infected

[frozen shell]

I wonder if the lifeblood beast from the first game is similar to the radiance in terms of controlling

Like is it also forming a hivemind?

[grand kayak]

It seems to exert much looser control than the radiance

[warm ocean]

I think liveblood just wants to spread as much as it can

[spark valve]

sure it wants to spread, and is doing that in hallownest too, this sort of pseudo-infection doesn't seem like a necessary component of that

[severe siren]

The lifeblood creature is augur

[spark valve]

true

[warm ocean]

yeah liveblood and radiance infection and void power are three entirely different things, not connected to each other

[severe siren]

I condone lifeblood its pretty chill ngl

[grand kayak]

Yeah lifeblood still seems overall pretty benign

[warm ocean]

that's why it's scary

[grand kayak]

At least comparatively

[spark valve]

lifeblood and radiance's infection are a good deal more mechanically similar due to the dream origin

[severe siren]

Ignoring what happens to the ecosystem its chill

[spark valve]

what happened in ss also might only have happened due to the alchemist fucking up

[severe siren]

It doesnt discriminate though

[warm ocean]

||when alchemist brought the liveblood to pharloom that was the momend he messed up||

[severe siren]

Corpses, wildlife, living sentient beings, lifeblood influences all

[spark valve]

more the injecting shit with it

lifeblood just being around doesn't cause problems

[grand kayak]

Lifeblood I think is just a better parasite. It wants to spread and the best way for it to spread is to make the host stronger.

Because if the host dies it can't spread

[warm ocean]

||yes that made the process of spreading signinificantly faster, but I think that injecting just one plant with it could already cause a wide spread||

[sinful nimbus]

Apparently not since Hornet saw similar stuff in Hallownest

[spark valve]

idk why injecting one thing would affect anything else

[spark valve]

isn't she talking about infection

[warm ocean]

||do you think that difference in lifeblood's size between act 2 and 3 is purely alchemist's doing? No, it spread on it's own like that from smaller source||

[severe siren]

Have yall seen what happens if you get a ton of lifeblood masks

Without getting hit i grabbed two cocoons in wormways (for 4 masks) and then spammed lifeblood needle, the lifeblood masks themselves tremble violently the more of them you have at once its very interesting

Mine looked like they were having a stroke at that point

[grand kayak]

Idk if she knew lifeblood caused problem considering she's fine with injecting it into herself

[spark valve]

if she saw lifeblood doing bad shit she would probably warn him BEFORE

[grand kayak]

Maybe he lifeblood in hallownest was more or less being prevented from spreading by the infection

[warm ocean]

exactly

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think so

[warm ocean]

it was mentioned somewhere in hallownest, I don't remember exactly where, that this is a prohibited substantion, the liveblood

[spark valve]

oh I was thinking about the dialogue

[sinful nimbus]

"My unique shell can resist the darker deformations of this substance"

This isn't really consistent with HK and people eating lifeblood and being okay but whatever

TC moment

[grand kayak]

Do you guys think maybe the alchemists obsession with spreading the lifeblood was caused by him taking it? Or was he just crazy regardless

[grand kayak]

Idk does anyone alive take lifeblood in hallownest other than the knight? Most lifeblooded people we find are dead

[spark valve]

probably started with scientific interest and then lifeblood made him more and more obsessed

[warm ocean]

I think that lifeblood works like a drug. He saw the positive effects of it

[sinful nimbus]

Salubra and Ellina do it

So does Hunter

Silksong just made this up

[green yoke]

The Lifeblood regen synergy is crazy and I'm definitely using it for the Path of Pain-lite

[whole holly]

and Blue Child Joni as well

[warm ocean]

made what up lol? Everything connects perfectly for me

[sinful nimbus]

Lifeblood apparently being harmful and deforming your body

[grand kayak]

I mean maybe the dosage matters? The alchemist guy seemed pretty obsessed with it. Maybe its fine in moderation

[terse warren]

I mean, eating is a bit different from injections

[whole holly]

i think this was influenced by fans headcannoning Lifeblood version of Lost Kin

[spark valve]

a journal entry implies it just happens where lifeblood is apparently

[warm ocean]

yeah, it always was lol, but in hallownest it was prohibited and less invasive

[spark valve]

which makes it weird that joni's repose doesn't have lifeblood infected shit but whatever it doesn't really matter

[terse warren]

uh
Well it at least explains why it was taboo

[sinful nimbus]

Its way more widespread

Lifeblood is pretty much just in Wormways iirc

In Hallownest its everywhere and people are actively eating it and everything is okay

[terse warren]

So this is retcon number 3 so far?

[sinful nimbus]

More like number 7

[grand kayak]

Well lifeblood is pretty explicitly not native to pharloom the alchemist guy said he had to bring it to pharloom

[spark valve]

more'n that

[warm ocean]

yes but it's not been there for long in pharloom. Only after we trigger act 3 we see the instant spread. In hallownest lifeblood was propably for ages, and still didn't take over entire hallownest

[spark valve]

they found it in putrified ducts iirc, by the pale lake

[sinful nimbus]

TC breaks something everytime they pull out a contrived reference to HK

Except like Isma's buddy ig

[terse warren]

What are the 4 I'm missing

Herrah is weaver, Lifeblood is harmful, Snail shamans are interested in void

And?

[sinful nimbus]

3 queens

[errant sandal]

is there anyone making like a doc on the lore or whatevs

[spark valve]

Plasmium was first discovered by my master at the farthest edge of Pharloom, hidden deep in salt-stricken waters.

[errant sandal]

like the one in the hk lore channel

[sinful nimbus]

Hive is apparently known for their steelwork now too

[spark valve]

void heart uh doesn't work I guess

[terse warren]

Is it a retcon if it doesn't explicitly go against something said before

[grand kayak]

Idk if the snail shaman thing is a recon considering we get 2/thirds of the void spell upgrades from snail shaman corpses

[iron whale]

What

[sinful nimbus]

The hive was explicitly isolationist

[spark valve]

yes because you don't get the void from them

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet was also raised in Deepnest according to Midwife's dialogue

[iron whale]

This much was obvious

[terse warren]

Crossroads Shaman says that "my kind never thought to look [in the abyss]"

[spark valve]

the void spell upgrades from snails in HK are the knight absorbing a large amount of magic from the snail which allows its own void to meld with the spell

[terse warren]

Trained≠Raised

[sinful nimbus]

Now its not

[sinful nimbus]

3 queens means that Hornet was raised in White Palace

[terse warren]

But yeah this one does make sense

[spark valve]

ss at least introduces a sort of reason for herrah to send hornet abroad some of the time

[sinful nimbus]

Birthed by Herrah, raised by White Lady, trained by Vespa

[iron whale]

Raised in deepest, hive trained her

[spark valve]

raised in deepnest and wp

[frozen hornet]

what does the message when you start a new game mean?

[terse warren]

It doesn't have to have gone specifically that way though. We only see Hornet in white palace after she's already grown up

[spark valve]

pharloom's folly?

[frozen hornet]

yeah, is he talking to Silk?

[whole holly]

is Herrah explicitly stated to be Weaver in Hollow Knight? she is refered as spider/beast as far as i am aware

[frozen hornet]

he talks about her nature

[terse warren]

Yeah it's a retcon

[iron whale]

Why else would hornet be half weaver

[sinful nimbus]

Sure

[spark valve]

talking to the kingdom of pharloom itself, the heart is the grand mother silk, and the truth of the kingdom is that it was always her domain (the conductor we talk to in game says this)

[whole holly]

somebody was saying Spiders and Weavers are same

[sinful nimbus]

But its not a very natural conclusion for HK's story to take anyway

[iron whale]

Because they are, gms is queen of weavers, she created them. This is shown in the first sinner cutscene

If you watch the first sinner cutscene that statement will make more sense

[whole holly]

she is said to be in SS but not in HK

[spark valve]

The mantle of rule, claimed greedily from Pharloom's fading first children, those bitter Weavers... it was yoke, not crown.[NPC]:Now, in our Citadel's silence, we share their truth. Only one monarch's claws ever clutched this kingdom, though we raised our voices to cry otherwise.[NPC]:Would you see her, pilgrim? Up there at our Citadel's crown? Reach those heights we'd hoped to hide and bow before this land's true ruler