sk-lore

[storm wolf]

wait no i think you can only get up to lvl 4

[edgy stone]

I still dont know how to get one ending

And im so confused by it

[storm wolf]

which one

[lapis geode]

My cheat is only no vignette to clearer the vision. Most of my cheat if possible is utility, like always have the compass on.

[fierce vessel]

oh good luck with steel soul

[frosty gate]

Ok, I should go to sleep but I won't be able to with this question in my head.

Why is Hornet called Weaver? She isn't a Weaver by birth, she was raised by them.

That said, she has Weaver abilities, but Herrah was no Weaver

[edgy stone]

https://youtu.be/wCco3Rjc6bM?si=My6EtoqUMYMAAeSX 2nd one specifically

[gloomy path]

only ending im missing is the one where the silk goes down to the bugs

[edgy stone]

Ive not seen anyone talk about it

[fierce vessel]

is it possible to take the curse into act 3?

[hollow spear]

||Which one?||

[edgy stone]

Im assuming its for steel soul??

[storm wolf]

wait mr mushroom is actually in the game

[fierce vessel]

yupp

[storm wolf]

how do i find oomf

[hollow spear]

||Use the super jump in the Pale Lake||

[edgy stone]

2nd one

[hollow spear]

yeah which

[storm wolf]

im comin oomfie

[hollow spear]

I don't want to see the cursed one

[lapis geode]

One question: will I hear ||The Hallownest theme|| when ||the knight|| came?

[storm wolf]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[hollow spear]

||I don't think you will||

[edgy stone]

What do you mean which, im talking about thr 2nd ending in the video

[hollow spear]

Describe to me xDDD I don't want to see the cutscene, If it is which I'm thinking

[lapis geode]

FUUU—

[tawdry flare]

Nah, but Enter Pharloom plays during the Abyss Climb & Dive and it’s peak

[lapis geode]

Seeing the png of void is already throw me out of chair.. I don't want to see it moves

[hollow spear]

Maybe spoilers for Steelsoul? IDK ||I didn't see any of the Steelsoul-Made enemies that appears in one of the trailers, maybe there's exclusive enemies... that deals 2 masks of damage oh nooo||

[fossil swift]

the fight for the void ending is interesting

[runic musk]

Unsure, completed a run in SS and didnt get it

[lapis geode]

Like brooo...
Why youtube need to give THAT as thumbnail? Imagine if I play blind and found out ||The knight came||

Don't spoil me what his business though. I want to see myself.

[tawdry flare]

Interesting how…

[storm wolf]

wait can i get some spoiler free guides for all the endings

[fierce vessel]

it's similar to the first bad ending but just shows tendrils of silk coming down

[fossil swift]

interesting as in

i just like how the fight looks

[hollow spear]

Oh, I don't know what it is

[fossil swift]

honestly fighting Lost Lace is something

[hollow spear]

She's broken af

[tawdry flare]

Oh agreed I love the art

[fierce vessel]

yeah i'm not sure how to get that ending

[hollow spear]

She telefrags me everytime

[edgy stone]

Huh must be if you bind grand mother instead of trap her when you can

[hollow spear]

Maybe Steelsoul????

[tawdry flare]

Have you considered not standing where she’s teleporting. It’s very rude

[fossil swift]

The thing I love the most about the Lost Lace fight is what comes after

[dim pawn]

anyone know what's going on in the default ending
why does it look like hornet turns into a weaver

[hollow spear]

Oh, If you cancel the True Ending, so? Yeah, It must be

[fierce vessel]

hornet takes the place of gms by essentially binding her power

[hollow spear]

Because she is

[fossil swift]

GMS literally using whatever silk she has left so Hornet would save her daughter
and all the vessels collectively saving Hornet (and Lace) in the end

my favourite ending

[hollow spear]

MaskMaker says that Hornet can grown more. She's, like, becoming full higher being in this ending

[fossil swift]

yeah

[hollow spear]

Taking over Grand Mother Silk's spot to herself

[fierce vessel]

oh yeah, this was a different mask maker, i wonder what their lore is

[dim pawn]

kk
do you think it's better or worse than grand mother silk for pharloom

[plush hamlet]

@fossil swift She won

[fossil swift]

It would be interesting to see a higher being version of Hornet

[fierce vessel]

probably the same thing

[hollow spear]

Every kingdom needs a maskmaker, I think

[fossil swift]

I mean it depends on what you mean by 'better or worse'

[hollow spear]

Maskless bugs can't exist, everyone needs a mask

[fierce vessel]

isn't widow's whole thing that her mask was removed. or am i tripping

[storm wolf]

srry mushroom man im sure ur riddles are so cool but i dont got time for all that

[lapis geode]

Widow exist

[fossil swift]

shrue

[fierce vessel]

it leads to a cool place at the end if you haven't been there already

[hollow spear]

IK, I'm just saying what MaskMaker says

[storm wolf]

i jsut mean im looking up the answers lol

[hollow spear]

But the ''normal bug'' can't live without a mask, I think

[edgy stone]

And shes utterly and batshit insane

[hollow spear]

Yeah

It's was her punishment for a reason

[fossil swift]

there's so much stuff to genuinely unpack in silksong

[hollow spear]

I theorize that removing Widow's mask ''soft reset'' her mind and transformed her into this crazy devout we see

[fierce vessel]

that would be interesting, forcibly removing their mask destroys their mind

but then why wasn't something like that done for the first sinner

[edgy stone]

First sinner makes the same sounds as widow

The weavers just sound awful ngl

[limpid summit]

I see how Sharpe can fit into the DLC now

[hollow spear]

Her mask looks broken, I think

[edgy stone]

Widow is still able to use silk but I dont think she casts any weaver spells in her fight

[fierce vessel]

yeah and she retained enough of her sanity to try and take you over

[edgy stone]

Her mask was created like this weirdly enough

[hollow spear]

I still wonder why Herrah looks so different from the Weavers

[fierce vessel]

why exactly was hornet being brought back to pharloom again? was gms trying to absorb her power

[limpid summit]

I think she might have been a regular spider (as the original game suggests) that the Weavers modified so her kid would have Weaver powers

She’s likely not from Pharloom and there’s no way she’s a Weaver kid the whole point of the game is how rare that is

[hollow spear]

I mean still pretty similar to the Dream Realm one. Maybe the Mask that the Pale King used to seal her as a Dreamer changed her Physiognomy?

[limpid summit]

The Weavers saw an impending deal with PK, Herrah needed a heir for her throne’s legitimacy, win win

Idk if dreamer masks can do that

[hollow spear]

Masks are so mysterious in these games, only god knows what it true power is

[dim pawn]

basically yeah from what i understand she was captured to be taken to grandmother silk to produce silk for her

[tawdry flare]

Maybe PK just really wanted to mess her up

[edgy stone]

Itd be fucked if its found out herrah is a modified bugs by the weavers

We know herrah has to have 100% weaver blood at least

[tawdry flare]

Maybe she like. Changed her body to match that of the other beasts in Deepnest?? This retcon thing sucks

[limpid summit]

Don’t take that as fact ofc it’s my theory just cause I don’t like Herrah being a full fledged weaver

[hollow spear]

Probably, but I think that, from the nature of the higher beings, being binded to Hornet and creating another Monarch was of her interest as well

[edgy stone]

All of the dreamers are clothed in it

Dreamwrs I meant

[hollow spear]

Monomon has this shit too

Maybe their mask just need to have this weird cloak for aesthetic purposes

Pale King was into design school

[limpid summit]

A creature born of a bug's desperate hope for strength. Few possess the skill to call the void, and of those that can, none possess the means to tame it.

Why does Hornet even say this about summoned savior

[fierce vessel]

from what herrah said in her dialogue to hornet about her nature and resisting it, it seemed to me like she experienced a bit of that pull herself. which makes me think she was born as at least part weaver?

[hollow spear]

Monomon without her mask btw

[runic musk]

Because its literally what happened in front of her

[limpid summit]

She also says the Weavers want Hornet to be multiple things, none of which she cares about

[limpid summit]

The Knight does both

[hollow spear]

What the fuck is a summoned savior

[runic musk]

Steel Soul boss

[limpid summit]

Oh uh

[hollow spear]

no fucking way

[limpid summit]

Steel soul spoilers?

[hollow spear]

they wouldn't

[craggy smelt]

steel spoilerth

[fierce vessel]

wait that's crazy i need to see this

[limpid summit]

You get a questline where you find a Jinn-like construct named Zi and you have to find her “vassal”, a little Jiji like bug named Sula

[hollow spear]

WHERE IS THIS THING

[limpid summit]

Sula ends up summoning void (so what Jiji does isn’t canon but she might actually be able to do it)

[craggy smelt]

I love this so much, btw

[fierce vessel]

how has anyone even gotten this far into steel soul, just the base game was so hard for me lmfao

[limpid summit]

You let him go free after and Zi says he’ll be hunted down by the Masters…we ALL know what that means

[hollow spear]

Why are you spoiler dropping me pal 😭

[runic musk]

I have recording of the fight and dialogue if that wants to be seen.

[fierce vessel]

yeah pls send

[hollow spear]

No no I prefer to see it in game

[limpid summit]

I can’t rly describe it find it it’s way more interesting than I’m describing it as

[unique fox]

can somebody explain the first heretic memory cutscene to me

[hollow spear]

And loose my steelsoul to this motherfucker

[unique fox]

i just got it im not sure i understood

[limpid summit]

I know it’s such a good teaser

[runic musk]

I'll spoil tag it dont worry

[hollow spear]

It would be EVEN MORE interesting If you didn't describe it, but it's okayyyy

It happens

[tawdry flare]

Silk created the Weavers from the Pharlids

[limpid summit]

Sorry bout that

[hollow spear]

It's okayyy

[limpid summit]

Grand mother silk created Weavers from normal bugs

[unique fox]

interesting

[hollow spear]

hiii im a dumb bug WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT STRINGHJGFDGFDGJKD Oh my im tall now

[limpid summit]

Probably not every one they can breathe with some difficulty

[tawdry flare]

Kinda like PK did with his beacon but more direct and gave them magic powers

[limpid summit]

But like imagine it like yeah I was gonna say that

[edgy stone]

Wait is pharloom derived from pharlid

[runic musk]

0:08 is opening and 1:15 is ending dialogue if you wish to skip.

[craggy smelt]

maybe, or pharlids are named after the region

[hollow spear]

In the brazilian translation they translated pharloom to ''Fiarlongo", as a joke with Far Loom

[limpid summit]

God why do they call it made of masks when it’s straight up their heads

I hate mask discourse

[craggy smelt]

masks are heads

[hollow spear]

Masks are faces

[craggy smelt]

there was a line from hornet about her face being a mask

[limpid summit]

Wait actually

[craggy smelt]

it's maddening

[limpid summit]

Theory

[craggy smelt]

I guess some masks are just naturally grown

[unique fox]

is this character steel soul exclusive??

[limpid summit]

Summoned Savior proves without a doubt that Silksong is after EtV not DnM

[edgy stone]

Its probably pale king biology

[hollow spear]

Yeah

[edgy stone]

Pale king is mimicry of regular bugs

[unique fox]

what the hell

[limpid summit]

Rationally, Hornet would assume that TK manipulated Void to kill Rad cause she was right there

[craggy smelt]

oh?

[limpid summit]

But in EtV she just sees the infection die

[edgy stone]

Recreating a common thing of bugs but without the true part of it underneath would make sense for pale king and his childrrn

[limpid summit]

No clue what’s going on

So she’d have no knowledge of TK controlling the void

@spark valve guess what

[craggy smelt]

well, TK is a Void being, so it's not really a case of some other non-Void bug taming the Void

[hollow spear]

TK is not a bug

[limpid summit]

True but she doesn’t even say no bug just straight up none

[craggy smelt]

does it count as someone taming the Void when its the Void itself?
not like anyone can control TK

[hollow spear]

I mean in her pov they didn't manipulate shit the void just straight up explodes and fills The Black Temple

And even kill both TK and THK

[limpid summit]

Yeah but it passes by her harmlessly

[fossil swift]

i dont think she tamed the void

[limpid summit]

Then she looks at TK’s shell

[fossil swift]

it's more like
the void recognizes Hornet

[hollow spear]

She knows that they did it but they fucking DIE in the process

And they're like, Void itself

[limpid summit]

Maybe but it’s either her lace dialogue or post lace dialogue where she talks about how she considers the Vessels as living beings like distinct from just void creatures

So it’s not like she’d perceive the void as taming itself

[tawdry flare]

The reason it didn’t before was because she wasn’t exposed to it for long prior to the dive right? Or is TK just really slow crossing the void ocean

[craggy smelt]

whoa, really? she mentions them? I missed that

(how did i miss that)

[fierce vessel]

not directly

she just says she considers all beings equal even if they're not bugs exactly

[limpid summit]

Uhhh I think it’s the caretaker where he says something about her life being a sad unfulfilled one as a construct

[fierce vessel]

(in context of lace not being a real bug)

[limpid summit]

And she’s like no I knew similar dudes and they made it work

[craggy smelt]

hrmm! I must seek this out

[fierce vessel]

and then there was this too

[tawdry flare]

Lace also says this herself post-Lace 2 and Hornet tries to comfort her

[craggy smelt]

oh, is there like a full game script or something available yet? people were posting snippets of exact dialogue

[limpid summit]

No I wish

[edgy stone]

It's really nice the siblingly love in silksong

If there are like godhome type bosses phantom and lace should get a duet

Phantom lace and grand mother all at the same time in a fight

[craggy smelt]

yeesh, SS hall of gods...
gonna be just throwing all the bosses together in one fight instead of making you fight them in a row

[hollow spear]

Hall of Gods but with Shell binding aways active no fucking way

[storm wolf]

sounds like a nightmore but its possible. all mother dearest has to do is spam her pos needles

[fierce vessel]

i did wonder about this, my theory was that TK might not be able to manipulate all void at once and it caused a huge disturbance (the fight and GMS sacrificing and all) in the void for it to notice

[edgy stone]

Have an orenstien and smough situation and when one dies the other subsumes them

That should theoretically be possible

[limpid summit]

Ooh

[craggy smelt]

this hit on a lot of points on my lore wishlist actually
I wanted
-Void and Ancient Civilization beneath Pharloom
-Travel through the Void to be possible
-Vessels to appear

Just never thought TK would be fulfilling that last one

[limpid summit]

I found phantom easy but lace hard for the stage I was at

I would never want to fight them together

But it would be great

[fierce vessel]

imagine first sinner with one of them

[edgy stone]

You either have to fight embroidered lace or phantom

Embroidered should be the name of like a 2nd phantom fight

[runic musk]

Admittedly I thought Void would have little impact in this game not an entire act dedicated to its incursion

[edgy stone]

Embroidered phantom would go hard as fuck team cherry

[limpid summit]

This is what mamacita was talking abt I think - probably WL and THK?

[craggy smelt]

yeah, i never would have imagined it would be this major an element

when I found the Diving Bell in Act 2 I was like 'this thing is going to the fucking Abyss'
but I didn't think it would play such a major role in the story

[edgy stone]

Ah I didnt find it till act 3

[runic musk]

I question how that guy managed to get the bell back up for repairs after it crashed though

[limpid summit]

I feel like Hornet’s dialogue about the events of HK comes off as natural

[storm wolf]

wait whats the 2nd ending shown here

[limpid summit]

We know she at least cares about TK we don’t know anything about THK but who knows

[craggy smelt]

'birth-cursd sibling'
probably sympathetic

[limpid summit]

I just know there’s good caretaker dialogue about this but literally I don’t know how to find it

[storm wolf]

it was pmo so bad

[limpid summit]

There’s no save creator or anything yet is there

[craggy smelt]

probably not

only been a week

[edgy stone]

I dont know and no one will explain it

[craggy smelt]

oh yeah, what the fuck?

just saw that for the first time

[limpid summit]

Unless I’m wrong I think that’s a cut ending

[storm wolf]

yea figures

[limpid summit]

Like it exists in the files and was carved out with all the endings

[craggy smelt]

looks like a more complete Hornet/Silk fusion?
I wonder if its triggered by having all 3 silkhearts?

[storm wolf]

that video definitely got those endings by data mining

[limpid summit]

Unraveled lace bellbeast?

I did all 3 and got the regular one

Maybe it’s a void given mind situation where it was the original idea and TC thought they could portray Hornet becoming GSM better

Like it seems like it’s the same sort of idea as the real ending

[craggy smelt]

hrm, interesting

[runic musk]

Its what I'm starting to believe because those videos were made by just taking the files out.

[limpid summit]

Dude it’s so cool seeing everything unfold

[runic musk]

Unless it has VERY specific conditions.

[storm wolf]

its way less scary i prefer the one we got

[limpid summit]

Same

[edgy stone]

No I finished the game with all 3

I thought it was a steel soul ending

[craggy smelt]

sounds like it was an early verison that might've been cut then

shows a more completely transformed Hornet, I guess they wanted it to be more ominous

rather than showing her just straight up replacing Silk

[fierce vessel]

yess this was it ty

[limpid summit]

A crude construct of my father's fallen domain. Only a fool believes that void can be fashioned to do their bidding.

Okay so like maybe Hornet is just in denial because that’s exactly what PK did

[tawdry flare]

I agree, she’s also much kinder than I was expecting given she killed at least one of her siblings lmao

[limpid summit]

Now obviously his kingsmoulds weren’t perfect

I wonder if she feels bad about killing vessels after seeing all the stuff TK got up to

[edgy stone]

Its what presumably led to his death though

[limpid summit]

I think that’s a THK reference

[craggy smelt]

she probably figured it would have gone badly eventually, even if THK had worked

she isn't necessarily correct though, she can have a biased view

[storm wolf]

speaking of scary i love act 3 so much i love how the world is actively crumbling around and how helpless it all feels. doing the flea festival and occasionally hearing the cries of gms was so peak

[runic musk]

Goes kind of well with how Summoned Savior goes.

[tawdry flare]

I failed flea dodge once because the gods under my feet were distracting me

[edgy stone]

Pale king also found a way to calm the void down but even that was not foolproof

[limpid summit]

If red memory tells us anything it’s that WL likes Hornet even more than the Vessels

[craggy smelt]

Hornet: we need everyone to build a really big lighthouse

[edgy stone]

And have people rotate shifts

Thats what fucked over the pale king

[limpid summit]

She goes on and on about cursed void and Hornet’s own autonomy dude TK just saved the kingdom

[edgy stone]

He put 1 guy in charge of the lighthouse

[storm wolf]

man the festival was such a fun surprise they truly are such whimsical creatures

[runic musk]

I sure do love spending time having fun with Fleas until the screams of the damned suddenly erupts

[fierce vessel]

in the memory it looked like she was talking to the current hornet though, maybe through some power of the shamans? the rest of the memory was all child hornet

[runic musk]

GMS really likes just being a complete tonal shift for no reason in the Flea games lol

[tawdry flare]

It’s either actually her or Hornet’s dream/memory version of her

[storm wolf]

i like how no one reacts to it at all because everyone is trying to ignore how fucked the world is

[limpid summit]

You’re right

[runic musk]

Ngl whenever it occurs when I'm playing a flea game I think of that one TF scene "SHUT UP GRANDMA"

[limpid summit]

I think it’s because of their combined awareness lowkey

[craggy smelt]

pale stuff

[limpid summit]

We know Hornet realizes she’s in Godhome and WL is so powerful in dreams that she easily blocks the godseekers out while bound

And like yadda yadda we see the dialogue go from airy cutscene dialogue to text boxes

[craggy smelt]

yeah, i guess Godseeker's remark about her being 'one of Them' really was referring to the pale beings
and they just didn't recognize that PK was also one since he was erased, or they make no comment on it

[tawdry flare]

Would the WL take over Hallownest or like move or something after DNM/ETV…? Or does she just chill in her cave for all eternity

[limpid summit]

Probably just cave

[craggy smelt]

she must know that things are better through her roots
she didn't want to have more children for fear they would become vessels, but the need for vessels has passed

[limpid summit]

I always thought one of Them was just HBs because the only one they’d seen chronologically before was Unn (asleep and faded) but now in SS it could be PBs for sure

Or even Roots

[limpid summit]

It’d be interesting if Hallownest is just a giant verdant landscape

Who are the surviving HBs

WL and Unn

[tawdry flare]

A pale and green version of Hallownest would be neat

[craggy smelt]

and maybe the Lifeblood Beast, who we all need to be pretty wary of now

[limpid summit]

Oh god

Lifeblood creature

I was already interested in dude cause he’s the only one to really break into Godhome besides eternal ordeal which is NOT canon

[craggy smelt]

Hornet and Lace come back, and it's all pale roots everywhere and everyone is possessed by roots, and they're all 'fuck, here we go again'

[limpid summit]

But god yeah this Plasmium stuff

[storm wolf]

damn get grandpa off the juice

[tawdry flare]

Hornet & Lace’s Grand Adventure To Kill All Pale Beings

[craggy smelt]

should it be Lifeblood Creature or Plasmium Creature hurf hurf hurf

[limpid summit]

If Silksong gets a Plasmium update in lieu of a Lifeblood one I’ll call it the Plasmium creature

[wary plover]

Why does hornet hate plasmodium

[tawdry flare]

Did Silksong expand on Lifeblood’s connection to the void at all beyond it just being connected to it… somehow?

[craggy smelt]

yeah, Hornet's journal entries hint at such expansive knowledge
she mentions she's seen mutations from Lifeblood before

[wary plover]

Why is hornet so smart when she's just a fighter

[craggy smelt]

no, there's no seeming connection at all
there's just a lifeblood chamber in the abyss in Hallownest
in fact Nuu I think describes the lifeblood infestation taking hold in the Wormways as different from the Void infestation everywhere else

[storm wolf]

shes been around the block

[limpid summit]

We don’t know why there’s a lifeblood stock in the abyss really

Which is to say no Silksong didn’t build on that

[storm wolf]

maybe in zotebote

[tawdry flare]

Oh so did the lifeblood in Pharloom invade Wormways because GMS’ power over the kingdom lessened or…?

[limpid summit]

Deepnest spiders are the most intelligent species

As said by the reliable Midwife

[wary plover]

Has anyone ever found out why there are cogs in the main tower of the citadel

[storm wolf]

i mean its already in the outskirts of the kingdom it might just be out of her jurisdiction

[livid panther]

Hello chat. I figured this chat would be able to help me answer:
Spoilers for ||Act|| ||3|| ||During the climb out of|| ||the Abyss|| ||-- what the hell is the track that is playing? I can't find it in the official game OST but surely it has to be there||

[craggy smelt]

Zylotol mentions that his master found it somewhere, in 'salt-stricken waters' at Pharloom's farthest edge
and Zylotol brought it to the Wormways to study how it grows in a foreign environment
(hopefully a reference to Barnacle Bay)

[tawdry flare]

Well, I’m asking because lifeblood seems to have a connection to void, and when the void starts to take over it starts to spread

[storm wolf]

i dont mean this in a rude way but why does this matter

[limpid summit]

BARNACLE BAYYY

[tawdry flare]

Enter Pharloom

[wary plover]

I just want to know what the cogworks are for, like what machine is being powered

[limpid summit]

Ogrim in Barnacle Bay would be genuinely amazing fanservice

[storm wolf]

seemed to me that grandpa brought it in to do experiments right

[livid panther]

LMAO ITS THE FIRST TRACK??? thank you im just stupid

[wary plover]

Because it's not just the elevator it feels like one big machine

[limpid summit]

You got a picture?

[tawdry flare]

It’s also the first trailer music

[storm wolf]

probably for the cradle area then whatever that used to do

[craggy smelt]

I think it's basically all the machinery in the citadel - the music, the weaving, the machinery in the underworks, etc.

[livid panther]

that part i recognized but somehow i thought it would be in chronological order of appearance in game so when i couldnt find it after dark descent i got annoyed lol

[wary plover]

Who is in your profile pic because I feel like I've seen her before

[tawdry flare]

IDK. I NEED MORE LIFEBLOOD LORE GRAAAAAHH
That’s probably where one of the DLCs will go i think

[trim vapor]

theres lifeblood in the abyss?

[storm wolf]

hidden silksong npc

[wary plover]

I dunno because there are also cogworks in greymoor for some reason

[craggy smelt]

they got those windmills there for spooling up the silken dregs

[tawdry flare]

In Hollow Knight, there’s a Lifeblood door in the Abyss

[limpid summit]

Just in HK

[trim vapor]

can it be opened? and where id it

[wary plover]

Oooo I see. That's what the scissors and forks are for...

[tawdry flare]

Yeah, you need enough lifeblood masks. It’s on the left

[upper narwhal]

Left side of the abyss

[limpid summit]

You need a a certain amount of lifeblood hearts

Then you get the Lifeblood Core charm but you can see a weird face of a huge thing in the background

[craggy smelt]

yeah, I love the bladed staffs and poles set up everywhere, specifically to catch silken dregs in the air - such a great little detail

[wary plover]

If I recall correctly it was 21

[trim vapor]

in silksomg?

[wary plover]

OMG I didn't even notice! That's what this channel is for

[trim vapor]

or do u guys mean hk

[chrome glen]

And you see a cutie in there. Maybe lifeblood higher being? Or just a big ass bug infected with lifeblood we don't know

[limpid summit]

21 there’s no way

[storm wolf]

||damn i bet hornet would look cool as fuck plasmified. gonna inject her with my entire stock now. [also how do you restock if grandpa is dead]||

[wary plover]

Hk

[tawdry flare]

It’s in the first HK yeah

[trim vapor]

oh. so silksong doesnt have a lifeblood door?

[limpid summit]

Nope

[craggy smelt]

not yet...

[tawdry flare]

It would be a plasmium door if it were in Silksong

[wary plover]

I am so scared to stay in this channel because I could be spoiled any second but I am sooo curious

[craggy smelt]

finish your playthrough, before you learn horrible truths

[tawdry flare]

The introduction of an alternative name for Lifeblood leads me to believe that its lore will be expanded upon further…,.,,,

[wary plover]

I'm pretty far into the game though I already freed bell hart and found blasted sands

[craggy smelt]

ooof

brother thinks that's far...

[wary plover]

Wait what do you mean off

[tawdry flare]

That’s super early dude

[upper narwhal]

We got doing drugs in Silksong 😭

[wary plover]

Oh no... I am leaving bye

[tawdry flare]

New Lore: I’m going to sleep bye

[craggy smelt]

sleepsong

[elder cobalt]

how do i get to veridian?

[elfin berry]

So if hornet isn’t blood related to the weavers, why is she so important to the monarch? She has no weaver dna at all

And why does she seemingly have weaver powers

[chrome glen]

She is blood related to the weavers. She's half weaver half wyrm I believe

[elfin berry]

The weavers came to hollownest than left, presumably back to pharloom. Her mother was alive before they even showed up

[craggy smelt]

no, Herrah is revealed to be a Weaver it turns out

[elfin berry]

Source?

[craggy smelt]

Hornet's red memory, and how throughout the game she's called part Weaver

herrah married into the existing Deepnest authority, I guess

[elfin berry]

That doesn’t feel concrete to me

[chrome glen]

Herrah/the weavers could've also just taken over deepnest when they fled Pharloom

[drowsy vessel]

||so.. how exactly are hornet and white lady related?||

[elfin berry]

Step mom

[chrome glen]

WL is basically teh cool step mom

[elfin berry]

Not blood

[chrome glen]

In cut dialogue from HK Hornet was called the daughter of 3 queens. And now in SS we see that. Birthed by Herrah, Trained by Vespa, and most likely guided/confided in White Lady

[drowsy vessel]

her desire in the end... is a peaceful existence?

[craggy smelt]

more so the strength to make the world better

or just making the world better

[drowsy vessel]

Okay

[elfin berry]

She was also tought to weave by the weavers in that memory but that doesn’t really make her a weaver? Unless she was gifted the ability by the weavers or something?

Like they did something to her

[craggy smelt]

they wanted to her to prove she was more weaver than wyrm

[exotic steppe]

The Red Memory is my absolute favorite moment in both game, idk how you felt about it but it was such a strong emotional moment for me, and seeing small hornet is awesome

[elfin berry]

Small hornet is everything

[drowsy vessel]

By the way, did you notice that the pure vessel has a spell from the weavers?

[chrome glen]

We know that when Hornet was an tiny baby the weavers were constantly trying to talk and whisper to her to take over and become a queen and rule while Herrah told her she doesn't want Hornet to listen to them. We don't get anything else because as Herrah says in the Red Memory it's something along the lines of do you even remember me before the mask? You were so little. But it seems that the weavers wanted Hornet to use the Wyrm side of her nature that she expresses to rule and take over Pharloom. But Herrah wants Hornet to do what Hornet wants not what her nature/Weavers want from her

[exotic steppe]

Yeah now that you talk about it, he does use silk runes

[chrome glen]

Is it the same runes? I thought it was kind of just a focus type attack

[patent ermine]

unironically i think the Red Memory is the best part of Act 3 for me, just so much insight into Hornet and the 3 people that had their own hands in creating her as she is seen in both HK and SS

[chrome glen]

And all that she remembers about the PK is the white palace. We don't even see an outline or nothing. Talk about a deadbeat

[elfin berry]

The shade in the final cutscene though…

[patent ermine]

that moment made me sob 😭

[elfin berry]

Sameee

[craggy smelt]

it was pretty wild

[exotic steppe]

It does look very similar so it might be something some weavers taught him ? IDK how canon is godhome content anyway ngl i missed some lore of all of it, which is idealized which is real etc

[chrome glen]

I kind of love that red memory serves as a plot device and also TC going "Here's the lore now leave us alone" lol

[shadow haven]

Can someone explain lore-wise ending, ||while cursed? Like isn't that just some crazy NPC with a passion and idea, and it's just happen to become reality? That ending is just so so bad and not good for anyone besides that npc. That some elden ring dungeater bs||

[craggy smelt]

sounds like you have it figured out

[elfin berry]

I think it’s pretty safe to assume that the god home flower ending is likely the cannon ending for silksong

That leads to silksong

[exotic steppe]

It look absolutely fantastic and the dialogues are really impactful, Herrah's dialogue is something i did not expect and gives so much strengh to both Herrah and Hornet as charactgers

[chrome glen]

I don't think so because we see shade lord/TK in the end

and godhome flower seems to just thanos snap the void out of existence

[drowsy vessel]

In the ending of "Sister of the Void" you can see in frame 25 that the little ghost is the shade lord, so i think both endings are canon except the one with the flower

[elfin berry]

I don’t think that’s the entire void though

Just some of it

[craggy smelt]

I think it's ambiguous whether it's DNM or ETV - Void Given Focus appearing briefly might be an allusion to what TK can become, but they mostly appear in their Void Given Form state

[exotic steppe]

Yeah but i dont know how real godseekers thoughts are if that make sense? they seem to be linked to some god like beings but i dont really know their place in the universe and all

[chrome glen]

During development TC said that all endings are canon going into silksong but that for sure changed.

[craggy smelt]

yep

[chrome glen]

Like idk how the any% ending can be canon with shade lord

[elfin berry]

All endings are cannon but silksong is the result of a specific ending

[outer stump]

She's probably not as much of a spiteful micromanager as Mother Silk. At least for a while.

[patent ermine]

tbf idk how TC were ever gonna try to make sealed siblings canon or at least make sense

[elfin berry]

Different lines on the same piece of paper

[craggy smelt]

everything is canon to itself

[chrome glen]

One could argue that the seal she puts over the black egg is weaver silk based and GMS has ways to counter that and break the seal

and then just yoink her lol

[elfin berry]

All the first game endings are their own timelines, silksong just picks one of those timelines

[exotic steppe]

Well probably but im not sure how much power GMS has on other regions since she has to send guys to do the diry job

[elfin berry]

Is the best way to put it

[exotic steppe]

Yeah i agree

[drowsy vessel]

It seems like only the true ending and the regular godhome ending are canon

[chrome glen]

Yeah I think silksong is from P5 ending. Or maybe dream no more???

[patent ermine]

Maybe? But that feels like you have to do a lot of arguing to try to make it make sense, especially with how Act 3's whole abyss ending and The Knight saving hornet goes

[drowsy vessel]

Both are equivalent options
Because there are a couple of frames with the shade lord

[chrome glen]

Yeah any ending with the knight not becoming part of the void just doesn't work in silksong. I think it's like Yak said. Every ending in HK is canon but this is like a specific timeline

[storm wolf]

||oh yea this revealed this sidequest to me so i did it and this dude is genuienly the most annoying son of a bitch wtf im glad he got plasmified fuck him||

[patent ermine]

Honestly i like the idea of DNM being the canon ending and from hornets perspective seeing what they could've been had they gone Godhome Ending? Seeing what the Knight's potential really was

[chrome glen]

Yeah but in dream no more we never see shade lord is my only problem. The only time we see shade lord is during P5 when presumably it forms because of something to do with attuning with the godseekers and bitch slapping the radiance

[craggy smelt]

got so lucky with this screenshot

[chrome glen]

I'm down with this. Also because isn't P5 the one where Hornet and THK stand off in the final cutscene? Would be weird to not have her mention THK at all

[drowsy vessel]

I mean TC wanted to show that this outcome is possible from both ending

[craggy smelt]

THK just kicking around back in Hallownest

[storm wolf]

||also no i just assumed zango was grandpa for some reason. seems he is alive and kicking||

[shadow haven]

I love, besides lore, that TC are appreciating all fans who beat p5 😭

[chrome glen]

https://tenor.com/view/where-you-at-gif-21177622

[patent ermine]

New king of dead hallownest apparently /j

[drowsy vessel]

Maybe he got a job in an office

[chrome glen]

The reason I want to lean more towards P5 is because in that ending we see the knight be able to have some form of will impose onto the void and control it. While in DNM it just seems like the shades have some autonomy

Also doesn't the void idol with all radiant fights something like void given focus or smth?

[craggy smelt]

in both cases TK has the Void Heart, which unifies the Void under their will
though I guess only to an extent

[elfin berry]

It’s clear that the radiance being defeated is cannon, so it’s one of 3 endings. I’d believe it’s the flower ending due to the flowers relevance in this game. It’s likely the reason the knight appears as he does in this is because his void beast form was disrupted by the flower. Sorta deconstructed.

[drowsy vessel]

This makes a lot of sense

[chrome glen]

My interpretation is that during P5 you have the godseekers focusing entirely on the knight/the void and they seem to have some power to like enhance beings as we see with abs rad and pure vessel. And because of that TK is able to control the void into the shade lord and unite the power/will of the void under it's control

[drowsy vessel]

I would say that in the second case you just don't have as much control

[elfin berry]

Regarding the hornet thing. I suspect the answer is that she was raised weaver and/or infused in some way by the weavers that raised her. It’s pretty obvious if you just look at her mom that she is not a weaver.

[shadow haven]

can we be certain, that silksong true ending is the canon and only one? And also, how can default hk ending and sealed siblings be canon (talking only about the knight)

[chrome glen]

Speaking of the flower. Was anybody else kind of confused that it was the White Lady that gave Hornet the flower in red memory and not Zemer? I guess Zemer gave a flower to white lady who showed it to Hornet? But like Scrungus said idk how Hornet would now it opposes the void unless it was a flower ending. Unless she learned about it from the White Lady/Zemer

[storm wolf]

well in the red memory we see the weavers teaching her how to bind silk right

[drowsy vessel]

I think the opposite is true, because we don't know where exactly the void was sealed, and it would be strange if this place is a pharloom

[elfin berry]

Who says it was sealed?

[chrome glen]

I think Void is basically real life oil. It is just an "endless" sea if you go far enough down

[craggy smelt]

I do think the Abyss is basically everywhere

[elfin berry]

^^

[storm wolf]

lots of bones in the abyss too...

[elfin berry]

It’s ancient civilization

[craggy smelt]

also I wish we got more ancient civilization lore, but it is great that they apparently extended throughout the Abyss, beyond just Hallownest

[shadow haven]

abyss can be everywhere but nowhere at the same time

[drowsy vessel]

Uhh What else could have happened to this? Because the only thing that seems natural is destruction/teleportation (i.e. sealing)

[chrome glen]

Yeah we see glimpses of them but I really hope we uncover some stuff about them later

Maybe DLC? :copium:

[elfin berry]

It’s likely the same thing that happens when you dive with the flower. It just destroyed that bit

But the void is kinda sorta big :)

[chrome glen]

Well Hornets flower is also the definition of scuffed

[whole hawk]

if we get Steel DLC then we'll 100% get more void lore

[chrome glen]

It's a construction from a memory perhaps 100's of years old

In the 2nd it seems like they can feel the void trying to expand?

[obsidian quail]

okay silksong was fucking cinema

i’m sitting here with my mouth open

[elfin berry]

Isn’t it implied that this is the weavers messing with the void? Their architecture is there.

And a whole ass weaver is

[craggy smelt]

they did seem to dig down there

though Hallownest did the same

they might not have tried to experiment with it like PK did though

[elfin berry]

They clearly liked it to some degree

[chrome glen]

The weavers might have found a way to the abyss and said "fuck that shit" and just left it alone

Like once they learned what it was just pissed off

[craggy smelt]

'liked it'? I don't know about that

[elfin berry]

“Our shells yearn for your embrace”

[patent ermine]

i mean, you find one of their "bases" down in the abyss, with Silk Soar

[obsidian quail]

i don’t think Weavers had anything to do with Void beyond a curiosity

nothing they do is tied to Void

[craggy smelt]

oh, those tablets aren't from the Weavers, that's AC writing

[chrome glen]

I don't think that was the weavers message. I thought those were from the ancient civlization

[elfin berry]

Perhaps

[craggy smelt]

those egg-tablets resemble ones in Hallownest, distinct from the weaver ones

[chrome glen]

Because nothing from the weavers in HK or SS mentions the void

[whole hawk]

Yeah those are ancient civilization tablets. Weavers have different style of tablet.

[elfin berry]

Fair enough lol

[obsidian quail]

is it all one ancient civilization or was Void just the center of worship for a lot of bugs

[craggy smelt]

it was one - there's an arcane egg down there

[elfin berry]

So she’s a weaver through teaching, not through blood.

[chrome glen]

I think she has to be part weaver though

[obsidian quail]

it seems to attract bugs who have a negative outlook on life

[patent ermine]

Void was probably entirely its own civilization, until maybe the Pale Beings or "Higher Beings" came about and started to create their own civilizations?

[elfin berry]

But we know her mom and dad aren’t weavers

[chrome glen]

Because the only reasons that the weavers have control over silk is because they were created by GMS

[heady moat]

Snail Shamans = Ancient Civilisation? or maybe they were a part of it

[obsidian quail]

i think Void and Pale light are equally ancient

[chrome glen]

Anyone else kind of annoyed we don't get anything from the shamans after getting the flower? They just are ded

[elfin berry]

GMS?

[chrome glen]

Grand Mother Silk

[heady moat]

also why did the snail shamans bring about void in silksong exactly?

[storm wolf]

well there is the crest

[elfin berry]

The flower killed them, no?

[obsidian quail]

the Shamans could be descended or just a sect that follows the Void loosely

[chrome glen]

I think the spell/Ritual of causing red memory killed them

[patent ermine]

i was so excited being able to actually talk to a Shaman outside of just. spells. but then they died

[storm wolf]

well thats the best way at taking down a god

[chrome glen]

Oh they knew. They were like, I mean...... we can get rid of GMS ahahahaah don't ask how tho

[patent ermine]

Best, or only known way?

[elfin berry]

Both can be true

[storm wolf]

best way atm theyre just little guys

[chrome glen]

Do we actually kill Nightmare Heart or just make it leave Hallownest during banishment?

[craggy smelt]

it leaves, presumably it's still alive and looking for another ritual
also yuck, original game lore, get it out of here

[chrome glen]

Well Nightmare heart is a higher being so idk if we killed it without void or not.

Also I think PK just died from age. I am not on team void particles in throne room

[heady moat]

So they did not bring about the vid out of pure love for it

I kind of skipped over that one line of text accidentally so I'm a bit confused

[chrome glen]

The snail shamans didn't really seem to love it tbh. They were just like, well fuck it better than the silk mother

[heady moat]

about their intentions

[storm wolf]

hornet takes most of the blame herself

[heady moat]

GMS seemed so shallow honestly

[elfin berry]

Felt more like the void was a tool to them. It just backfired.

[storm wolf]

elaborate

[elfin berry]

Who is gms

[storm wolf]

grand mommy silk

[heady moat]

Doesn't have the same weight as the Radiance

[elfin berry]

O

[heady moat]

The Radiance felt more important

and more involved

[obsidian quail]

so can anyone explain to me the relationship between GMS and Weavers exactly

[chrome glen]

Well she's also not the god of dreams essentially. Or ya know. The sun.

[obsidian quail]

did she create them in the sense they were regular spiders and then ascended to that level

[chrome glen]

GMS created the weavers. Weavers committed a coup and put her to sleep to rule over Pharloom. Weavers got couped and when GMS woke up she decided that imprison/kill her creations

[storm wolf]

they both do different things i dont think theyre meant to feel the same

[craggy smelt]

yeah, they used to be pharlids

[chrome glen]

Yeah in a cutscene after I believe it's first sinner we see a normal spider be created into a weaver

[elfin berry]

Where is this shown?

[obsidian quail]

that’s what i thought

[heady moat]

Sure but one feels significantly less exhaustive than the other

[obsidian quail]

but how do we know Weavers couped the GMS, what exactly was their beef with GMS besides feeling oppressed

[heady moat]

I thought that was just for that one particular spider

[elfin berry]

The first sinner

The first weaver

[obsidian quail]

i assumed she was the first Weaver

[elfin berry]

If GMS created weavers from spiders then I suspect hornet was given weaver abilities/traits by the weavers of the deep nest

[wide raft]

DONE the journal took the longest to fill out

[elfin berry]

That makes the most sense to me

[chrome glen]

She is the first weaver and first sinner. I can't recall atm but I believe first sinner has some dialogue about going against GMS. Also in a lot of religious texts you have creations going agains their creator and then being deemed sinners and getting punishes/imprisoned/killed

[storm wolf]

poor girl they had her locked in the hyberbolic time chamber

[obsidian quail]

she said that GMS lied to them and said they were divine but guess not

[wide raft]

Now I can put the game down and wait for dlc.

[obsidian quail]

she looked pretty divine to me teleporting all over the place

[heady moat]

The middle one looks so much similar to that one experimented shaman

[craggy smelt]

I don't think we're given the specifics, but at some point the Weavers turned on Silk and bound her
when she subverted the Citadel, the Weavers fled and Silk sent the Citadel after them

[storm wolf]

i assume she lied about their origins

[obsidian quail]

so how exactly did Weavers put the GMS to sleep, and what was Eva about?

[chrome glen]

That's what the purpose of the citadel/song was

the music kept her asleep

[craggy smelt]

Eva was seemingly an effort to create a god, a replacement for Silk possibly

[storm wolf]

isnt eva one of the failed silk children

[craggy smelt]

as for putting Silk to sleep, I guess the big cocoon was some kind of spell

[elfin berry]

I think the cocoon was her own thing

She makes another in the void

[obsidian quail]

Yak can you break down timeline for me including Weavers in deepnest

[whole hawk]

So Steelsoul has what? A new boss, quest, Styx is dead, and a Jinn equivalent yeah?

[craggy smelt]

Styx, oh noo...

was worried about that

[obsidian quail]

i’m confused on the timeline

[wide raft]

pretty much, and any tools from base game that required dying like dead man's purse are removed because. kind of useless right?

[elfin berry]

Which part?

[craggy smelt]

the timeline of what?

[obsidian quail]

so they fled pharloom to hallownest after GMS wakes up? what exactly what GMS doing with the Silk

the timeline of the Weavers

[elfin berry]

They fled after the backlash of betraying her I believe

Then fled hollownest after the infection

[chrome glen]

Being imprisoned is a bit more than backlash

[obsidian quail]

so are the Weavers the fucking bad guys

[elfin berry]

Uh kinda?

[chrome glen]

Depends on the perspective

[elfin berry]

GMS is kinda enslaving people so id argue she’s pretty bad

[obsidian quail]

what did GMS do to Weavers that would incite them to cocoon her

[craggy smelt]

what it seems like is
Silk creates the Weavers, they establish Pharloom
Weavers have a falling out with Silk, and bind her
The Citadel takes over the kingdom from the Weavers
Silk subverts the Citadel, the Weavers flee
Silk sends Citadel forces to hunt down the Weavers
one band of Weavers arrives in Hallownest, and raises up Hornet as an potential counter to Silk

[wide raft]

Weavers have innate magic and feed on other bugs sentient or no. So they're kind of seen as boogey monsters despite their power.

[craggy smelt]

unclear - First Sinner said Silk lied to them about them being her 'divine daughters'

[obsidian quail]

so the Citadel ruled outside of GMS for awhile, then GMS wakes up, how?

[storm wolf]

song stopped playing

[obsidian quail]

and why couldn’t GMS just leave

[wide raft]

had to sustain Lace

[elfin berry]

God I hope lace is in the next game

[storm wolf]

these rulers b terrible parents

also extremely dumb question but why was lace laughing in the ending

[wide raft]

Silk was basically using weavers as a scaffold to make lace. They left because they didn't wanna be used and thown aside.

Lace was laughing because She got her wish. GMS was dead.

[obsidian quail]

i thought GMS wasn’t enslaving bugs till post betrayal

[elfin berry]

That’s just her thing I think

She’s just sassy

[storm wolf]

wait i thought lace was made after the weavers left

[obsidian quail]

she’s laughing cuz what a fucking ride that was did u see what went down

and somehow they’re okay

[wide raft]

Phantom was made before and was the trigger to them leaving. Lace came after

[storm wolf]

she was probably laughing at the fact that she was saved somehow yea

[whole hawk]

Was Lace laughing? I genuinely thought she was whimpering because at the very end she realized MS still saved her.

[craggy smelt]

possibly the Weavers saw the creation of living silk beings as a betrayal
like Silk was creating their replacements, only using them for their own silk and magic to make 'real' silk children

[elfin berry]

Nah it was her laugh for sure

[obsidian quail]

okay i apologize for my confusion, so the Weavers put GMS to sleep with a song, but the song stopped playing? and she woke up but didn’t leave?

[whole hawk]

It sounded like a really pathetic laugh. Like a laugh with tears in her eyes. Or maybe that's what I want to believe since it makes more sense in my head as a tragedy

[wide raft]

Lace has the body and mind of a child despite being older than most in Pharloom. She hated her mother, the entire point of her helping us was to strike down her mother, Getting trapped in the void and kept alive by GMS despite what she did pissed her off more than anything, So we come down, save her from certain death. And all Lace is like "Oh I survived, Well, it's temporary anyway, Without her I'll finally die, and with her dead I win."

[craggy smelt]

I don't think she fully wakes up to the point she can escape, she's just waking up over the course of the game, and finally does when Hornet confronts her

[elfin berry]

What makes us so sure lace will die without GMS

[obsidian quail]

okay, and it was under her orders that everyone started getting enslaved? to do what exactly

[elfin berry]

Why couldn’t she be self sufficient?

[storm wolf]

i kinda felt the entire point of the ending was to make sure lace didnt die and lived on im sure she'll be alright

[obsidian quail]

GMS seemed to sacrifice herself and gave a fuckton of her essence so Lace can live on

[craggy smelt]

Phantom shows that silk beings eventually decay
I think Lace mentions something like this in her second encounter too - their lifespan isn't infinite

[wide raft]

Because Lace was being given silk constantly by GMS, she's pissed because she's not self sustaining, she's a false existence and she isn't allowed to die. Like how so many of the Vessels failed over time.

[whole hawk]

Well she has Hornet now so...

[elfin berry]

If only there was some source of silk to sustain her

[craggy smelt]

one big thing was sending Citadel forces to hunt down Weavers - she wanted their silk and magic, at least in part to sustain her silk children

[elfin berry]

:^)

[obsidian quail]

what was the purpose of enslaving everyone with Silk

seems like a waste of Silk

[wide raft]

GMS gave us all her Silk so we could power a superjump out of the void, and it still wasn't enough.

Also. Why do you think Hornet would keep her alive? Like, Yeah she saved her. But that was more to keep herself alive, Lace was just a requirement to secure her own survival, because if she didn't take Lace. GMS wouldn't have given the silk to jump. But if Hornet didn't go down into the void, GMS would have kept the barrier up until all of Pharloom collapsed.

And silk is within every bug of pharloom by this point. Connecting to them and controlling them is like moving a finger at this point, it's already there, just not active

[elfin berry]

Hopefully something in the dlc or someone from team cherry can way in on the whole hornet being a weaver thing

[obsidian quail]

is Herrah not a Weaver

[craggy smelt]

the silk might have faded away with GMS's death, like Rad's infection
the Void-strands fade in the ending cinematic at least

[wide raft]

Hornet 'is' a weaver. that's been esstablished for ages

[obsidian quail]

she has to be

[elfin berry]

But herrah isn’t a weaver

[wide raft]

the thing is. She's a firstborn hybrid, but what she's hyrbidized is a power boost rather than a reduction

[elfin berry]

So how is hornet

[obsidian quail]

are we thinking of Weaver as a species or a being that has silk soul

[wide raft]

and yes Herrah is. She's a lowborn weaver. A commoner who became queen by marrying deepnests king.

[craggy smelt]

herrah is a weaver - there's a discrepency in her appearance with other weavers, but you can have part-Weavers that are still Weavers

[wide raft]

so she doesn't have a round mask

Round goofy ass masks are for "pure highborns"

[craggy smelt]

as to this and her being 'a common bug', keep in mind that this was just the Shrumal's opinion of her
if the Weavers came to Deepnest as refugees, they might be regarded as lowly despite their heritage

[obsidian quail]

i wonder how Weaver dad died

[wide raft]

trying to make deepnest livable.

[obsidian quail]

dude the Weavers are so broken

[wide raft]

have you SEEN deepnest?

[obsidian quail]

they have to be the strongest species

outside of Pale beings but i don’t consider that a species

[wide raft]

they're one of the only bugs that can natively manipulate soul through a medium so yeah pretty stronk

[obsidian quail]

i’m just confused on the purpose of enslaving everyone with Silk, and the purpose of the Citadel

[craggy smelt]

it gave her a huge army and control over the kingdom

[obsidian quail]

why does controlling a kingdom concern her

[elfin berry]

We don’t know when the weavers came to deepnest though. There’s nothing that points to herrah being the descendent of a weaver that I’m aware of. They could have showed up after she was queen for all we know.

[obsidian quail]

i thought she wanted silk kids

okay so Weavers betrayed GMS for reasons and GMS started farming them for their Silk

[craggy smelt]

she was trapped by the Weavers and the Weavers fled, she used the Citadel to hunt them down

[wide raft]

Didn't we just say?

Silk is sufficed throughout every bug in pharloom, because it was used as a life extending agent. GMS was put to sleep so experimentation could continue without her, but as the song weakened they started looking to technology to prolong their lives instead of silk. Eventually, GMS woke up and wanted to have her trueborn child, but couldn't, so she began taking control of people who already had her power forcefully put inside them, and sending them out to find weavers strong enough to sustain a child indefinitely.

[whole hawk]

Why wouldn't Hornet keep Lace alive or at least take care of her? A lot of the game is about mothers and their children and Mother Silk is specifically contrasted with Pale King over her deep obsession with her own children. And Silksong as well is sort of an overarching character arc for Hornet, about her own nature and place in the world after guarding over Hallownest for so long. I think the title screen changing to both Hornet and Lace's weapons is very telling.

[elfin berry]

That new title screen is so cute

[vagrant stump]

How old do we think hornet actually is?

[obsidian quail]

who is they

[wide raft]

Title screen changing shows Hornet will mentor Lace in a way, but probably not sustain her. Give her the tools to make her own path in life, But leave it to her to live. Hornet's definitely a few centuries at this point.

[wide raft]

the maestro, architect, and other guy

[elfin berry]

The keeper I think

[whole hawk]

Having it be well "LACE DIES LOL" after might make sense but I think thematically it feels way more satisfying for Mother Silk's sacrifice to actually mean something in the end.

[elfin berry]

Yeah I suspect this ending sees lace live

[whole hawk]

But yeah Lace will probably live for a few more cenfuries anyaay.

[elfin berry]

Would be very silly for her to just die off screen

[obsidian quail]

so the Citadel higher ups were enslaving people with Silk to self perpetuate endlessly, it is finite, they turn to tech, GMS wakes up, tells them to go farm Weavers via her silk control?

[wide raft]

I feel like people are ignoring what Hornet tells lace right before she dives into the void. "I don't plan to sacrifice myself, but I will not standby as sentinel to another kingdom's fall." Hornet literally just telling her "I'll save you, but only if it doesn't put myself at risk."

[obsidian quail]

why for example were the bugs in bellhart strung up like that? what was gained from doing that

[elfin berry]

I like that hornet was like “I don’t wanna die bro”

[wide raft]

that was just Widow being a petty bitch

[elfin berry]

Was refreshing to see the protagonist value their life lmao

[obsidian quail]

i read this more as Hornet refuses to repeat the cycle of letting another kingdom fall

[wide raft]

Which is true, But she wasn't sticking her neck out for Lace in particular.

[obsidian quail]

this game is much more hopeful

[whole hawk]

Hornet always talks like that though to be fair. She even acts that way towards the Knight if I remember her dialogue.

[storm wolf]

she very explicitly was

[wide raft]

She very quite literally was not. Look at the dialgue before she dives.

I 'literally' just did it for my steel soul 100%, I 'just' saw it.

[storm wolf]

look at the journal entry for lost lace

[obsidian quail]

well i think Hornet is saying to Lace ur life is ur own as is mine but I will do what I desire

and that’s to save Pharloom and she threw Lace in there cuz she was sympathetic

i mean she was right there

[elfin berry]

I want a hornet and lace plush asap

[wide raft]

Well, more like it was the only way to get GMS to give her the silk needed to escape the void cocoon

[obsidian quail]

she just picked her up cuz it was in her face

[whole hawk]

Lace also saves Hornet last minute when the trap is set.

[elfin berry]

True

[whole hawk]

Same with the cage at the very beginning of the game.

[wide raft]

Lace admits the reason she did that wasn't to save hornet but to cause GMS pain seeing her 'failed daughter' strike a mortal blow to her. She says this the first time you go down to the abyss

[elfin berry]

Wait what?

[obsidian quail]

i don’t think it’s that cynical but that is part of it

[whole hawk]

Of course thats her acting out as a brat but Hornet seems to understand her nature.

[wide raft]

Those are quite literally her words.

[obsidian quail]

i think that’s true but hornet genuinely does sympathize with Lace given her experience with the Vessels and i don’t she wishes to see repeats of Hallownest events

[storm wolf]

i dont think lace is the kind of character to take at her word

[wide raft]

Lace is 'exactly' the kind of character to take at her word because people keep forgetting "She has the mentality and body of a child"

children are extremely literal

[storm wolf]

no they arent???

[obsidian quail]

yes but i think it paints Hornet as colder than intended given previous dialogue if ur saying that’s her only reason for picking Lace up

[wide raft]

have you ever dealt with a kid?

[storm wolf]

yes

[wide raft]

then I call bull.

young kids take everything and give everything at face value until they think they're in trouble.

[wide raft]

Hornet will help people yes. But she's a pragmatist at her core.

[obsidian quail]

oh we’re talking about two different things

i’m talking about Hornet saving Lace

I agree that Lace only did that as a fuck you to GMS

she has no reason to lie there

[elfin berry]

What’s the significance of the bird/butterfly that saves hornet at the beginning? And is that hornet that breaks the bridge with silk?

[obsidian quail]

if she was truly pragmatic she could have left Pharloom

[wide raft]

She also doesn't want to see another kingdom fall, if she can prevent it.

[obsidian quail]

exactly

she has emotional stakes in what is happening

[storm wolf]

isnt lace the one who conducts the butterflies

[obsidian quail]

so to say saving Lace is only pragmatic isn’t painting the full picture

[elfin berry]

Is that said somewhere?

[obsidian quail]

she clearly is moved emotionally by Pharloom and Lace

[storm wolf]

i think we see her doing it during the second boss encounter lemme check

[wide raft]

Hornet knows it's something in her capability to do. Her whole reason for going to the citadel instead of leaving if you try to walk out from the wastes is that "She needs to stop whoever sent them or they'll keep coming for her" Pragmatism. Her trying to save the kingdom after is "This is something I caused. I need to fix it." Again, pragmatism.

[obsidian quail]

and then look at her dialogue with Lace, and her memories

i’m not sure why u intend on painting her so black and white

[craggy smelt]

she seems to conduct them in Deep Docks
she resent Hornet being brought to Pharloom as a kind of replacement daughter, she probably sprung Hornet to keep her from reaching the Citadel
maybe hoping she'd die in an escape attempt or something

[storm wolf]

nope first encounter

[obsidian quail]

being emotionally invested and pragmatic can coexist

[craggy smelt]

she might also be the one sending them in the Mist, maybe hoping Hornet will give Phantom a worthy ending?

[elfin berry]

What about the butterflies in the mist then?

That react with the music

[storm wolf]

i think thats just how they work

they are commanded by music

[obsidian quail]

Weavers can’t catch a break

i’m surprised they didn’t have anti radiance shit cuz they sure have everything else

they sure flee a lot for super spiders

i’m curious about who caught the First Sinner

she can literally teleport

[wide raft]

I'm not painting her in black and white. I'm painting her based on how she does things. She's always even admitteded in games that she only does wishes if in context it helps her in some way. The warm feeling is nice, she's not cold hearted. But she's still only in Pharloom for one reason and every wish only gives her more resources to complete her task. Even with the fleas. She's travelling anyway, and if she runs across one it's no trouble to send it on it's way if she does. She's not escorting them back after all.

Yes, she likes helping people. But end of the day she's looking out for herself, and later just fixing a mess she made.

[storm wolf]

theres basically no reason to do the donation wishes beyond helping others out right

[wide raft]

You need to do the dono ones to build up the settlements. In game reasoning is so that they don't need to rely on her as much. mechanically it's to unlock silk and song.

[vague field]

If we don’t get extensive coverage of the steel faction in the future I’m gonna be so sad, one of the most interesting lore bits and we know nothing

[wide raft]

I'm gonna guess the DLC will be more focused on them considering how little they show up in steel soul

especially moreso as godhome can't exist now as the godseekers kind of well. had their cake and got eaten for it.

[vague field]

This dialogue is also so interesting to me

[obsidian quail]

where did u find that

[wide raft]

steel soul, Xi says it

[vague field]

Steel soul mode, npc in blasted steps

[obsidian quail]

who the hell caught the First Sinner

like seriously

i call plot

u need a Higher Being or Hollow Knight tier

[high bane]

Could’ve been Lace, Phantom, or maybe Silk herself.
Or Widow, Silk has quite a few higher-value servants.

[wide raft]

Not... really.

[obsidian quail]

no way Lace holds a candle to the First Sinner

[wide raft]

First Sinner was probably captured by other weavers considering the seal on her cage, before they all left.

[muted lantern]

I love how polite hornet is to everyone

[wide raft]

she 'is' a princess remember.

[obsidian quail]

why would other Weavers turn on First Sinner

[high bane]

That wouldn’t make sense, considering her “sin” is Apostasy; the Weavers are all apostates.

[wide raft]

Maybe her 'sin' is doing something that the weavers themselves saw as heretical

[muted lantern]

ik, i think it's very good characterization, its very unique to have a speaking character for one of these games

[high bane]

Widow is the only loyal one.

[obsidian quail]

it seems that Weavers are all painted as sinners and the First is the First

[vivid kernel]

Is the fact that she gets saved by The Knight , cannon ?

[obsidian quail]

i don’t think any weavers but pick me Widow sided with GMS

[obsidian quail]

it is a canon

[high bane]

Apostasy is very specifically the renunciation of a religious belief. In this case, turning her back on Silk.

[wide raft]

It could also be something simple as she was made an example of to keep the others in line, and then seeing how they were treated, rather than be kept under a thumb, they chose exile instead

[muted lantern]

I mean presumably, it happens in game so i cant imagine why it wouldn't be, if it was just a halucination her ass would be so dead rn

[vivid kernel]

True

[obsidian quail]

it’s not canon in the way it’s true ending

[vivid kernel]

Thank you guys

[obsidian quail]

but it is a possibility

regardless it’s canon that the Knight is chilling in the Void

[wide raft]

No reason not to. The Ghost after all 'is' her half sibling and is essentially a will the guides the void now. It's not present 'everywhere' but if something familiar to them shows up, Like a sister, They can make sure they get out safely instead of being eaten like the rest. Like spiderman "Everyone gets one."

[obsidian quail]

that goes back to my initial statement

who is powerful enough to imprison First Sinner in what was likely her prime

[wide raft]

Maybe it was Widow. They're both weavers, but Widow is still loyal to Silk, potentially the reason why her mask got destroyed.

[obsidian quail]

Widow is a scrub

First Sinner is the primordial Weaver

[whole hawk]

It's not like Weavers are gods let alone demi-gods. And even mobs in the Citadel have anti-sklk moves.

[obsidian quail]

I mean

[narrow glacier]

Maybe they jumped her

[wide raft]

Window is malnourished and hanging on by a thread. In their prime they were probably equal. You're basing game difficulty on their power in their prime

[obsidian quail]

Weavers are clearly superior to most bugs

[high bane]

Does that mean anything, though? Being the first Weaver doesn’t necessarily make her any stronger than the rest.

[narrow glacier]

No one said it had to be a 1v1

[obsidian quail]

and First Sinner is the cream of the crop of Weavers

[wide raft]

Even in Hallownest, a lot of the things the Ghost fought are shadows of their former selves.

[whole hawk]

It's still presumably just one weaver they initially have to contend with.

[wide raft]

First Sinner was timelocked, as powerful as she was when sealed. Widow got older, aged, and grew weaker over time. Simple as that

[obsidian quail]

i mean she was directly touched by divinity, she seems very Lucifer coded

look at her feats in her boss battle alone

she’s definitely Hollow Knight tier

[wide raft]

you're judging game mechanics as justification to power scale her. That's never a good argument.

[obsidian quail]

i’m judging her by her abilities shown and her lore

[crystal cloak]

So did team cherry revive the hornet is void theory with silksong??
Cause when she retrieves her cacoon theres traces of it there

[muted lantern]

Does shermas gender ever get specified in game?

[wide raft]

Because all weavers are basically at the same power level, just with different focuses for their abilities. Hornet's the only genuinely scary one because her Wyrm blood means she can essentially grow without limit.

[crystal cloak]

Male

[wide raft]

Female.

[obsidian quail]

that is an assumption on ur part

and sherma is a boy

[muted lantern]

I'm getting conflicting answers here gamers

Where is it stated

[wide raft]

Sounds kind of like how you're assuming "Based on what they do in the fight they're easily Hallow Knight tier"

[wide raft]

I'm just fucking with you, they're male.

[obsidian quail]

sherma is referred to as He when u go find him

[crystal cloak]

Why is there black goop in hornets caccon when she retrieves it sounds like a yay to hornet is void believers

[obsidian quail]

no i’m judging off her abilities which seem to rival Hollow Knight, two characters we know and have seen

actually seen

[muted lantern]

Also greyroot is the same species as white lady right?

[obsidian quail]

vs u just saying all Weavers are equal with nothing shown in game saying that

i’m very open to that being true i have no bias but nothing says that

[obsidian quail]

i was curious about that too

[wide raft]

But it's still an assumption. Because the First Sinner didn't age at all while sealed. basically in a time vault. There's nothing saying that Widow wasn't just as if not more powerful than her back in her prime. But because Widow's a relatively early boss, you're discarding her. Despite being the only Weaver who stayed loyal to Silk, so they probably had a direct powerline to the source. Like turning on infinite overdrive when actively fighting. Only now, GMS was asleep when Hornet fought her, and she's also old.

[obsidian quail]

the burden of proof is on you

it’s not up to me to disprove u saying Widow was that strong in her prime

[wispy phoenix]

I really hoped first sinner had a different ost for her fight 😦

[obsidian quail]

she definitely deserved one

[muted lantern]

So is greyroot the same kind of creature as white lady? They are both called root, and have a lot of similarities

[wispy phoenix]

It made both widow and FS's characters feel less significant

[wide raft]

Just like it's on you, You're assuming things based on half information. there's no way to prove other arguments because there's no supporting information aside from theory and conjecture right now. Widow was the last loyal Weaver to GMS, this is undisputable. the First sinner is in a cage. This is fact. This means the first sinner 'lost'. Supporting evidence suggests someone of equal or greater power put her in there. GMS would have probably just drained her if she was actively involved. So logically it'd be assumed someone loyal of similar lineage did the deed.

[obsidian quail]

i haven’t assumed anything beyond what we agree on

[wide raft]

"Oh woopie we saw the Hallow Knight teleport" Okay and? Hornet couldn't beat them at their weakest, and yet she beats the first sinner. So clearly not HK tier.

[muted lantern]

Are we powescaling rn?

[wide raft]

Hornet got laid out if you take too long to dreamnail the hollow knight. And that was after getting a cheapshot in.

[wide raft]

I'm pointing out the flaws in their argument but they're sticking their fingers in their ears and trying to say first sinner was basically a divine level weaver"

[obsidian quail]

i was saying First Sinner both in abilities shown and lore backstory seems to be very powerful and i was curious who managed to lock her up

the rest is just this guy in his own head

[muted lantern]

Seam did

[wide raft]

I could see Seam doing it yeah

[wispy phoenix]

Who is seam

[muted lantern]

Deltarune joke

[wispy phoenix]

Oh I see

[muted lantern]

Seam is a pretty fitting name in silksong thi

[obsidian quail]

relax Mediph it’s all good baby

😎

[wide raft]

I'm perfectly relaxed, I just finished 100% steel soul. I've got nothing to do now until dlc

[wispy phoenix]

Was it also under 30hrs?

Make a guide for plebs like me pls

[wide raft]

yes and yes

[muted lantern]

So can we agree greyroot is the same kind of creature as white lady right? That seems like the most concievable assumption

Which implies root is a type of creature that exists in many regions, not just a single unique being

[obsidian quail]

could be all kinds of tree beings

[trim vapor]

what is widow in the lore? ive only just realised she has the body of a weaver

[wide raft]

weaver

[muted lantern]

But she's specifically called root, which is a title shared with white lady, it's at least an intentional parralel

[muted lantern]

Weaver that was bound into service by grandmother silk

I think

[obsidian quail]

so the Weavers turned on GMS

what exactly did they do after that

i don’t see a Weaver kingdom

[wide raft]

left. You can see in the weavenest under the anklet shrine the map they used to spread out

[muted lantern]

Well they went to hallow nest, then ran away from there too

[wide raft]

they didn't 'all' go to hallownest. They seperated into groups and dispersed in all directions

[obsidian quail]

so Weavers leave and the Citadel gets established

Silk production and all that

[muted lantern]

Also hornet keeps getting mistaken for a child, does she really look that young?

[obsidian quail]

then GMS wakes up and wants to farm Weavers and sicks Citadel on them

and they get captured from all kinds of lands

presumably

[wide raft]

She's small for a weaver, so everyone think's she's young. but she's older than pharloom it seems like. Or at least older than the citadel itself.

[obsidian quail]

because by the time GMS woke up there wasn’t any silk left?

[muted lantern]

For a recap, at what point in the citadels development did grand mother silk take control

[obsidian quail]

asking the good questions

[muted lantern]

Was she always worshipped by the citadel?

Was she worshipped while she slept, or was her silk just used for science, but then as she started to wake she took control

[solid totem]

i have but one question, is silksong before or after voidheart? (idk if voidheart is proper but eh, im at act 1 so i wouldnt know)

[wide raft]

long after.

[muted lantern]

Silksong is presumably after the dream no more ending

[solid totem]

alrighty, good to know! thank you guys :>

[iron whale]

Who do we think will be the godhome provider in silksong? Since embrace the void is canon, godseeker is dead, so I'm wondering who it'll be instead

[obsidian quail]

so the First Sinner was sentenced to be in that thing for eternity

what power was doing that

not Silk

right

[muted lantern]

Embrace the void isn't necessarily canon, we only see flashes of the shade lord, I think the implication is dream no more happened but ghost is becoming the shade lord anyway

[wide raft]

She was sealed in by weaver magic. Which suggests either silk or Widow as the only two who could have.

[iron whale]

Embrace the void definetely makes more sense to be canon

[obsidian quail]

i can’t recall what was shown to say it was Weaver magic

[iron whale]

Why else would they flash the shade lord, it's a reference

[wide raft]

You literally see it on the walls

Every one of the four locks have a weaver seal around it.

[muted lantern]

My main issue is that would make thk alive and I think if hornet had a living sibling shed have a lot more interest in finding her way home

[wide raft]

the same ones you see in weaver shrines, or climbing up the mountain.

[obsidian quail]

woah relax mediph i’m just trying to understand my good man

[trim vapor]

im pretty sure white flower ending is canon

[obsidian quail]

that’s not possible

[wide raft]

im perfectly relaxed I'm just pointing out why.

[trim vapor]

how?

[muted lantern]

I think it's meant to be intentionally vague what ending was canon

[somber storm]

silksong kinda explained how ghost and other stray vessels appeared on the surface, since abyss seems to stretch really far they must've simply found another exit

[obsidian quail]

because then the Knight would have been obliterated

[iron whale]

No it wouldn't, the void is unleashed onto hollownest, in any case thk either merges with the void or Hornet kills him

[obsidian quail]

honestly for all intents and purposes none of the endings match up with Silksong

[trim vapor]

well in embrace the void does the void not spread throughout hallownest? surely that would enguld hornet

[iron whale]

It's either dnm or etv that's for sure

[iron whale]

Yeah that's not true

[obsidian quail]

which ending matches up with Silk Soul ending

[iron whale]

Dream no more or embrace the void

[obsidian quail]

wait embrace the void could

[muted lantern]

So was the citadel always in service to grandmother silk or were they just using her silk harvested from the coccoon as a tool at first and it took them over

[obsidian quail]

but dream no more it doesn’t seem like the Knight is very active

[iron whale]

Also dream no more doesn't make too much sense because only in embrace the void does the knight fully merge with the void

[obsidian quail]

that’s why i said it doesn’t match up

but i forgot about embrace the void

[iron whale]

So embrace the void is the only one that makes sense

[obsidian quail]

that could work

but we just have to headcanon what happened to THK

[whole hawk]

I hope we get exploration focused DLC instead of just the same stuff from HK. Not that fhey weren't great but even just a minor tease of the City of Iron for the inevitable steel assassin dlc would be amazing.

[obsidian quail]

what’s so interesting about the Steel bugs

i haven’t done steel stuff so i’m the most ignorant about those guys

[muted lantern]

The ending does mainly show the dnm form of the knights shade, only flashes, I think God master was meant to give us details on things that would happen in the future, like delicate flowers purpose, I think showing flashes of the shade lord but still mainly dnm ghost implies dnm happened but ghost is slowly becoming more powerful over the void, and God master just sped up the timescale by helping ghost power up, but it's something they could become without it just over a longer time

[obsidian quail]

also what happened to the guy who people were saying could be Void, with the long nose

[muted lantern]

I guess my main hangup is dnm is more narratively satisfying of an ending,

[muted lantern]

Steel assassin Sharpe was found dead in miami

[solid totem]

hold on, out of curiousity, does the delicate flower/everbloom (are they the same??) destroy void, or does it just relocate void? (seen in p5 ending with flower)

[obsidian quail]

i was thinking DNM perfectly matched silksong till i saw the Knight style on em

[wide raft]

I mean we don't see their shade at the end with the other siblings, and based on the godhome ending we see them outside the black egg with their cracked nail. So it's assumed they survived and are probably in hallownest either retired or rebuilding.

[muted lantern]

The text says it "repels" void

[distant briar]

repels the void

[obsidian quail]

now i guess it is Embrace the Void

[whole hawk]

City of Iron is basically another kingdom that seemingly learned how to control void and is another shithole like Pharloom. Jinn back in HK tells the Knight after getting Void Heart that it resembles Jinn's Masters.

People are somewhat sure tbat it's coming DLC bscause Sharpe was a backer boss.

[muted lantern]

Ooh what if the nail master in howling cliffs adopted them

[whole hawk]

And we even saw his companions in the original trailer.

[obsidian quail]

or THK could also be traveling

catching some sights

[obsidian quail]

that sounds like another game

we won’t see that for years

it’s gonna balloon

they will keep cooking

[solid totem]

wait are the delicate flowers and everblooms one and the same or no? i am a fool but i am curious

[muted lantern]

Steel assassin Sharpe returns in 25 years, the new game costs 4 cents and is the best game ever made

[obsidian quail]

seems like it

[muted lantern]

Same yes

[obsidian quail]

different labels same flower

[muted lantern]

Just like plasmium is lifeblood

[solid totem]

oh so its a regional difference for hallownest and pharloom, alrighty

[obsidian quail]

oh what happens to that guy in act 3 i forgot to check on him because he’s so inconvenient

[distant briar]

„Hey guys here is the DLC it will release in a month“

1 month later: „The DLC is getting bigger than we thought we need more time“

1 year later: „Hollow Knight City of Steel trailer

6 years later: release

[obsidian quail]

well it was referred to as that by someone who brought it from another land

and Hallownest calls it the Everbloom

idk what name Pharloom has for it

[gritty ruin]

Whats the main lore of ss?

[obsidian quail]

right

[gilded beacon]

Mommy issues

[obsidian quail]

do u hear how cool that idea is

it’s gonna balloon for sure

[distant briar]

Hornet is silk jesus

[obsidian quail]

DLC in 2028

[gritty ruin]

So she dies for the town of whatever ur fighting in? Silknest?

[distant briar]

no she kinda is just the messiah

[gritty ruin]

So she saves them from….

[obsidian quail]

they were like prove ur more Weaver than Wyrm

racist

[distant briar]

the haunting

[gritty ruin]

That is….

[obsidian quail]

let Hornet be a sick hybrid

[distant briar]

she saves them from Grand Mother Silk did you play the game?

[gritty ruin]

Can you just tell me the straight up main lore 😭

I can’t afford it

[distant briar]

hell no I ain‘t writing an essay

[gritty ruin]

I hate my WiFi.

[distant briar]

You can

[muted lantern]

Bumping this message because it got buried So was the citadel always in service to grandmother silk or were they just using her silk harvested from the coccoon as a tool at first and it took them over

[gritty ruin]

Paypal me 15 more pounds

I literally have 0 moneys I’m broke

[obsidian quail]

the lore experts said they existed outside of GMS, then when GMS half woke up she started influencing and controlling everything

per Mediph and Yak

[gritty ruin]

Ah so big scary spider terrorises pharloom and hornet goes there and saves them

[obsidian quail]

not a spider

[gritty ruin]

Big scary radiance but scarier

[wide raft]

No, Hornet was going to be sacrificed, she was captured. Going after the big bad was self serving primarily.

[muted lantern]

Who are they again? Im bad with names, oh wait these are actually people not character sin game

[gritty ruin]

Ah ok so she gets captured, she breaks free and goes to kill it for them

[wide raft]

Not for them, for herself, She knows they'll keep coming if she just leaves.