sk-lore

[dim inlet]

team cherry loves their speedrunners

100% in SS isnt nearly as bad at HK 112

[placid garden]

They're just locked in half the time

[fossil swift]

Also I feel like the mask being blurry makes sense too
Because Hornet likely saw very little of her own mother so she probably doesn't remember what her face looked like

[dim inlet]

the only real issue is that fleas dont have a marker so you just gotta wing it

[fossil swift]

The fleas are so cute

[dim inlet]

i think its the opposite. hornet only remembers her face and not the mask

[fossil swift]

Like
Genuinely love them over the grubs

[fossil swift]

Ah is that right ?

[placid garden]

Completing the game in under 5 hours, who do you think I am, TC-

[wary plover]

Have we found out why Silksong is called Silksong... are we ever going to because we never found out why hollow knight where you play as "the knight" is called hollow knight

[fossil swift]

But we also heard Hera's voice ?
Unless that's what Hornet believes her voice sounds like

[spark valve]

fleas are great even if the reward being annoying minigames which then gate an actually important thing is annoying

[fossil swift]

The knight is hollow but they're technically not the first hollow knight

[placid garden]

more hollow than the one chosen

[fossil swift]

Silksong is called silksong because...
There's a theme around silk and music probably

[placid garden]

mostly silk

[dim inlet]

cant wait for Hollow Knight; Blue Shell where we play as Quirrel before his amnesia

[fossil swift]

You see a lot of NPCs react to Hornet playing a tune and even the environment around her reacts to it

[foggy fractal]

what do they give again ? I know if you beat Seth's score you get a momento
but what was the prize before ?

[placid garden]

Sherma, my boy

[runic musk]

Oil

[spark valve]

pale oil

[wary plover]

Wait wtf really? When does hornet get her music ability.. or do you mean the gate unlock mandolin?

[placid garden]

I actually got the Steam trading card

[fossil swift]

The mandolin ability

[runic musk]

Music abilities mandatory from Widow

[gloomy path]

silksong cause the needolin music are songs, produced by silk harp

[fossil swift]

She can use the ability on certain NPCs too

[wary plover]

Yeah but that's just used to unlock gates no?

[foggy fractal]

ohhh right

[runic musk]

No

[fossil swift]

No it's not just the gates lol

[runic musk]

Its used for a lot of important things

[gloomy path]

needolin are used to temporarily stun enemies too

[wary plover]

Omg really

[runic musk]

Pretty frequently scripted too.

[fossil swift]

Yeah

[covert tusk]

So I guess we know what the Pale King died from more than ever now

[fossil swift]

Aw Garmond,,

[spark valve]

that probably isn't how pk died

[wary plover]

NOOOOO spoiler

[gloomy path]

how would pk die, no one put him down tho

[covert tusk]

Dude I was so worried for Sherma it completely slipped my mind that they’d pull a Solaire dark souls 😭

[wary plover]

I'm out of this channel. I'm out

[placid garden]

it really feels like Void is a lot more overarching in this game

[foggy fractal]

yeah this is an all spoiler zone bud

[wary plover]

What is solaire dark souls

So garmond is dead forever? I loved him...

[gloomy path]

it only did so cause the void used the silk threads the gms used to spread

[placid garden]

I wish we got more for Lurien

[covert tusk]

Solaire is a jovial knight in Dark Souls you can find all around the game who aids and helps you out and is on a journey for his own personal sunlight, and if you don’t know what you’re doing, you have to put him down when a parasite takes over his body that is known for forming Light

[austere whale]

so now with Silksong, which ending in Hollow Knight ended up being canon?

[wary plover]

No!!! more spoilers.... I can't I'm out I'm out of here god help me

[spark valve]

dream no more and embrace the void, it's ambiguous between those two

[covert tusk]

DUDE ITS SO MUCH WORSE THAN JUST HIM DYING, ZAZA JUST SITS BY HIS CORPSE FOREVER AFTER THE FIGHT

[gloomy path]

please move out of lore discussion bro

[placid garden]

wait....what

[wary plover]

i removed it from my channel list

[covert tusk]

GARMOND TELLS THEY’RE JUST GONNA REST A BIT BEFORE THEY GO ON MORE ADVENTURES, AND THEN ZAZA STAYS BY HIS SIDE FOREVER

[foggy fractal]

true ending

[covert tusk]

Bro we’re talking lore ofc it’s spoilers, either gtfo or understand we’re gonna talk about big stuff

[gloomy path]

its... tragic, wished you can change the outcome with everbloom

[placid garden]

No I know that

[foggy fractal]

what are you confused about

[wary plover]

I just wanted to know why it's called Silksong

I left the channel but your tag pulled me back

[spark valve]

becuase silk is important and song is important

[placid garden]

the ambiguity between the two

[covert tusk]

Everything is music related and Hornet is a spider, there’s your answer

[foggy fractal]

Tammo you tell him

I think its tied to shade lord flashing on screen for a second

[austere whale]

so if Embrace the Void's the canon one wouldn't that mean the Hollow Knight might still be around?, probably still in Hollownest wondering where the hell sis go

[runic musk]

wanted to post because i wasn't sure if it wasn't already, but if its relevant for anything, heres the Summoned Savior entry

[spark valve]

hornet is hallucinating or having visions before she passes out and she flashes visions of the siblings, in a way more concordant with dnm, and then the vgfocus, which is more concordant with the other, then it cuts back to reality and neither is there. It's meant to be ambiguous

I'm just conna paste this message again

[foggy fractal]

that

[gloomy path]

summoned saviour... what if the pale kings dying thoughts is to summon our knight

[austere whale]

eem, if the Knight and the other Vessels weren't there for real how would Hornet and Lace escape the Void if it wasn't for their interference?

[spark valve]

tldr neither shade lord or the siblings are present, they're just things hornet sees because she's passing out or whatever. this is clearly a way to nod at the possibility of either ending being canon without exclusively confirming either

[spark valve]

the knight is
only the knight

[foggy fractal]

also this

[placid garden]

Honestly, it always feely more appropriate to me that Dream No More would be the canon ending. But I'm being honest it kinda sucks the Knight's body doesn't exactly survive any of the endings

[zinc herald]

I genuinely cannot believe they would make a steel soul exclusive boss I am going through this run half to see if it's a thing lmao

[runic musk]

Its pretty shit

Has an untelegraphed dash and the basic Void attacks.

[placid garden]

idk, something about that feels too easy

[foggy fractal]

too easy in what sense

[spark valve]

yeah it's pretty straightforward

[placid garden]

to call it a hallucination

[spark valve]

it is a hallucination the cutscene clearly communicates that by them flickering in and out of existence

[gloomy path]

if they were just things she saw she would be dead, and not dragged upwards by some caring tendrils

[foggy fractal]

dream no more feels more consistent either way given how the knight is in the void given form form all the way throughout

[ancient scroll]

Why would hornet think of a void knight and flash the void given mind beast if it has not happened in that timeline

[austere whale]

they do turn into the Shade Lord for a couple seconds tho

[spark valve]

vision of its potential or just oxygen deprivation, even if etv happened she would not have seen it

[foggy fractal]

yeah that's why its up in the air

[placid garden]

hold up. I'm going to evaluate this

[spark valve]

to be clear in no timeline no version of events has she actually seen that form of the knight

[spark valve]

by all means go watch it again

[foggy fractal]

dream no more is best ending either way

[ancient scroll]

That’s seems like copium to me

[foggy fractal]

🤑 dream no more my goat

[ancient scroll]

Like disregarding the knight seeing the pale king in hi

[spark valve]

once again

[foggy fractal]

Hornet is only aware of the knight's base form right

[spark valve]

yes

[austere whale]

if Embrace the Void's canon, I wonder if Hornet did fight the Hollow Knight or they were just, like, chilling together until Hornet was kidnapped

[spark valve]

she doesn't even see the vgform version

[ancient scroll]

That’s not certain

[foggy fractal]

like she couldn't have possibly seen knight's void given form or given focus forms

[spark valve]

correct

[foggy fractal]

they were both in dream realms

[placid garden]

On a related topic, wasn't it really surprising to see them again? The Siblings.

[ancient scroll]

Does it not leak out of the godseeker?

[placid garden]

if you don't give her the flower last I checked

[spark valve]

it does, on the other side of the kingdom where it will just go to abyss without her ever knowing it was there

[foggy fractal]

that

unless she goes down there in that timeline which we don't have any evidence of at all

[spark valve]

doesn't seem like she goes void diving on the regular

[placid garden]

wait no, the Hollow Knight's shade isn't there

[foggy fractal]

could be just chilling in hk abyss idk

[placid garden]

Void given focus. That's the state where the Void isn't uncontrollable, right?

[spark valve]

it's controllable in both states

[foggy fractal]

yes

[spark valve]

vgfocus is the godhome one

[foggy fractal]

void heart unifies the void

[placid garden]

what's the other one again

[spark valve]

vgform

[placid garden]

gotcha

[foggy fractal]

void given form is after base radiance

[spark valve]

vgform is the form it's physically in in the ending minus the weird visions

[foggy fractal]

void given focus is pantheon 5

[foggy fractal]

yes this

[placid garden]

These forms are really awesome ngl

[spark valve]

their relationship is basically the same as the one between normal radiance and absolute radiance

[foggy fractal]

Hornet does have visions of siblings and void given focus
but void given form is def there physically
we even see a shot of them after Hornet passes out, in void given form form

[placid garden]

when she's carried out of the abyss?

[spark valve]

right before

[placid garden]

ah

[spark valve]

during this sequence we've moved out of her perspective

[craggy smelt]

both are cases of something TK is capable of i.e. calling the siblings, becoming the VGF, hornet could be perceiving this

[placid garden]

oh wait, Lace

[edgy stone]

Its interesting how the void can have void entities inside of it

[spark valve]

lace is there too sinking down, but it grabs her as well

[edgy stone]

Like you think they'd lose their form almost inside of what they're made of

Go back to the primordial goop

[craggy smelt]

those tendril-snakes look cool but that's a bit weird, yeah
like some weird gooey medium with void-snakes in it

[foggy fractal]

can vgfocus revert back to vgform ?

[edgy stone]

Is the world of hollow knight all one big primordial soup story

[spark valve]

sure

[placid garden]

How considerate. So what kind of bug is she

[craggy smelt]

potentially yes, if its ambiguous which ending is being followed up on

[spark valve]

lorewise she's not a bug but designwise she seems to be based off a lacebug

spoilered because bug but you can certainly see the silhouette

[foggy fractal]

ig void given form form is more familiar to Hornet
as in it looks more similar to base knight then whatever void given focus got going on

[spark valve]

also trypophobia warning

[placid garden]

why do real bugs always have the weirdest looks

[edgy stone]

I do like how the endings they chose do confirm the radiance is dead at least

Hollow knight does end with a good story

[foggy fractal]

rip bozo 💯

[craggy smelt]

more immediately recognizable as a sibling, certainly
i guess that matters to TK

[placid garden]

The thought the Knight's broken shell makes me really sad though. I can't explain why.

[foggy fractal]

right

[spark valve]

it doesn't need it anymore

[placid garden]

Hornet has a real interesting family doesn't she

[edgy stone]

I know we like always do just go with the idea that the vessels being mindless was impossible theory but I feel like silksong truly does confirm the knight wasnt at least

[craggy smelt]

part of me always wondered if TK would stay distinct or dissolve away into the Void like the other siblings were doing
now we know

an advantage to have a friendly face in the otherwise hostile Void

[spark valve]

hk confirmed that many times over

[edgy stone]

Which you can infer from hk but its cool to finally being fully true

[craggy smelt]

I don't think they were ever meant to be literally mindless
that was more a reference to the idea that the Void is perceived as this force of absence

[foggy fractal]

yeah idk how a completely mindless creature would even do anything
like walking, attacking, etc

[edgy stone]

When I first played hk I thought it was some meta shit ngl

[craggy smelt]

there's that lore tablet in the SS Abyss, ancient bugs talking about the Void cleansing them of all things like fear and desire
and the SS Arcane egg, talking about 'no self no will'

[edgy stone]

Like we were able to play as the knight because it had no mind to move of its own shit

[placid garden]

Maybe mindless isn't the right word

thoughtless perhaps?

[craggy smelt]

just so different mentally as to be unrecognizable

[spark valve]

it has thoughs

using dream gate requires imagination

deciphering the hunter's notes is a mental task

[foggy fractal]

wheres the abyss escape dialogue again

the no blank to blank whole thing

[covert hollow]

No mind to think

[placid garden]

awesome. Real nice.

[random harbor]

Pale King - General - Pale King Birthplace memory

No cost too great.
No mind to think.
No will to break.
No voice to cry suffering.
Born of God and Void.
You shall seal the blinding light that plagues their dreams.
You are the Vessel.
You are the Hollow Knight.

@goldenyak used /npcs quest name: Pale King category: General dialogue: Pale King Birthplace memory

[placid garden]

Speaking of hunter's note, the ones in Silksong were very informative for Hornet.

or of Hornet

[tough plinth]

Im only in act 2 right now (Collecting the trifold song specifically), but I just have to know, is the Silk Plague or whatever its called related to the Infestation/Radiance, I dont wanna know how if they are I just wanna know if they are connected

[runic musk]

No

[foggy fractal]

also after tk comes by Pharloom
is the void there just gonna be calm now ? like whats the range of void heart ? whats gonna happen to hallownest ?
I assume the void will just calm down after void heart and not be dangerous again but idk

[craggy smelt]

the 'Haunting' and no

[runic musk]

Pretty sure nothing occurring in Pharloom is tied to the Radiance in any capacity

[covert hollow]

Or tk and the voide

[craggy smelt]

we see the Void threads breaking apart, so the Void should recede
also SIlk is dead, so the connection with Pharloom is broken in any case

[edgy stone]

I thought the void was only upset in silksong due to it assimilating the grand mother

[foggy fractal]

yeah its refered to as the Haunting and no its not related to the infection/radiance in anyway
also this is a all spoiler zone get out !!!!!!!!

[edgy stone]

She dies when she saves lace and us in the end so it should become dormant again

[covert hollow]

Void only appears due to very specific actions so I think it just doesn't care what happens

[craggy smelt]

seems fine if you don't provoke it

[junior coyote]

seems like Phantom and Lace are sisters according to a bit of lore before Phantom's bossfight, or it's simply being metaphorical

[tough plinth]

Ok, its been really nagging me especially bcz I swear the scream sounded identical to Radience but then again its been a while since I played HK

[foggy fractal]

right so the void is just gonna puddle down there anyway

[runic musk]

Void really just minds its own business but bugs keep pissing it off

[craggy smelt]

don't stir the Void

[edgy stone]

Lifeblood has proven to be more of a threat ngl

[foggy fractal]

don't mess with the Void 🐺

[placid garden]

But it's so helpful

[foggy fractal]

so ig the point is it doesn't really matter if its volatile or not cuz it has such a limited range without the connection to GMS's threads

[covert hollow]

Void as prototype from Incredibles meme

[edgy stone]

Unless someone provokes it again

[craggy smelt]

hornet says it devours sources of Soul, so if you just keep away from it it'll hopefully stay docile

[edgy stone]

Cough cough steel masters

[craggy smelt]

those wacky guys

[edgy stone]

I am excited for their dlc

[foggy fractal]

if we get it

[edgy stone]

No way it does not happen

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/взгляд-2000-ярдов-война-war-soldier-gif-3632617944134077161

idk man

[runic musk]

Probably, theres an entire boss that Hornet has to deal with due to Steel people

[edgy stone]

Yeah it's a weird questline to have with no follow up

Like steel jin makes more sense as she was a direct replacement for a system that was useless in steel soul

[craggy smelt]

yea, i was sad they weren't part of the main plot
deeply mysterious, those guys

[edgy stone]

But the quest replaced nothing

It was put there for the sake of existing

[foggy fractal]

now looking back at pantheon 5 wow is vgfocus big
whole face almost big as radiance

[covert hollow]

I also see no way someone doesn't fuck with void again

[edgy stone]

I mean it can theoretically be as big as the void right

[foggy fractal]

even if it does happen its probably gonna be very small scale though

[edgy stone]

Which is apparently near infinite

[covert hollow]

Or very big

[placid garden]

buf if they did, it might not end well for the provoker

[runic musk]

The Steel Soul exclusive boss is literally conjured because someone was messing with Void again lol

[covert hollow]

Since higher beings just love to fuck with something outside their control

[raven condor]

I think TC cut the ant city and coral forest down significantly, and they would have been dream areas like the verdania

[edgy stone]

We kinda leave pharloom super vulnerable dont we?

I feel like it'd make sense for another higher being to attack pharloom now

[raven condor]

Lifeblood full takeover

[foggy fractal]

yeah I was sad no ant colony or coral forest
could be to because those bosses were backer ones ? probably not though idk why a bigger area/relevance would be bad

[edgy stone]

Hollow knight it made sense that it was left alone as the radiance made it useless land

But with grand mother dead pharloom is free for the taking

[raven condor]

Perhaps they felt they needed to get the game out faster?

[gray iris]

what is the lore reason groll shoot shade soul

[foggy fractal]

dw end game Hornet can just spam tools

[edgy stone]

I doubt they were cut for tjme reason

[foggy fractal]

yeah

maybe it just didn't fit their vision

[edgy stone]

They were shoen incredibly early on

[covert hollow]

And since both hornet and lace fuck off somewhere i doubt it has any defenders

Since tk won't care

[chrome glen]

He consumed the soul of a snail shaman

[foggy fractal]

i.e. they geniunely didn't like it and cut it down instead of progressing with it
because it was shown very early on
2019 had both ant and coral stuff whilst the edge magazine in 2022 I think also had coral stuff
again very long ago

[edgy stone]

I do think a dlc focusing on a takeover of pharloom and hornet finally realizing her role as its protector would be cool

[runic musk]

Closest thing to a currently alive "defender" is the automaton we revive if my memories right

[gray iris]

what is the lore reason solaire went to hallowneet

[craggy smelt]

who?

[edgy stone]

I want an act 4

Give me an act 4 rito

[gray iris]

solaire of astora

[craggy smelt]

is that a reference to something...?

[foggy fractal]

do we have any concrete evidence of them leaving pharloom besides the true ending title screen being the wastes/surface ?

[foggy fractal]

seems so

[covert hollow]

Not really beyond the title screen

[edgy stone]

Its dark souls lol

[gray iris]

it is so sad solaire threw his children into the abyss. my favorite park of hollow knight 1 is when you confront solaire at the end of path of pain

[covert hollow]

So we can assume they either left or didn't

[chrome glen]

Because have you seen the radiance? BIG OLE SUN

[craggy smelt]

Steel Seer Zi mentions that her Masters will now chase down her vassal because they've touched the dark
if they go after people who have been tainted by the Void, then maybe they send the Steel Assassins to Pharloom in Act 3 because of all the Void activity
that could make for a cool DLC quest, i.e. deal with the Steel Assassin attacks across Pharloom

[edgy stone]

Yeah itd be cool

[gray iris]

solaire became the sand worm due to the SUNLIGHT maggot thats why he fight the radiance which is the SUN in hallownest

[foggy fractal]

I don't think they'd have much of a reason to leave

[edgy stone]

I do want an act 4 dedicated to rebuilding pharloom and fighting off the steel assasins

[placid garden]

That then took the form of a “moth”

[edgy stone]

Just let me make my game not absolutely depressing

[placid garden]

There’s something clever there. I can’t place what though

[chrome glen]

I mean... the first game was children genocide with the eradication of an entire civilization haha

[gray iris]

do hollow knight 2 will have dlc

[chrome glen]

Yes TC have said that they plan on future content for Silksong

[foggy fractal]

oh yeah this reminds me of the sharpe void discussion

thats dead in the water now it seems

[craggy smelt]

a follow up to Act 3 is plausible, Hornet is still there in Pharloom
though we also see the 'surface menu screen' and the needle and pin, it might suggest they're both heading back to Hallownest

[edgy stone]

The content is already madd

Theyre just holding off on releasing it for another month

For no reason other than to be mean

[runic musk]

The bug leaves after you vanquish the Void entity though

[brittle forum]

are you straight up killing the bosses when you beat them in the dream form?

[craggy smelt]

yeah, but the Masters are going after it
maybe sending the Steel Assassins

[foggy fractal]

ig Lace just needs Hornet to be able to live it seems
what does Hornet wanna do now though
I think Red Memory touches upon her desires but I don't know the specifics

[foggy fractal]

it seems so

the alive ones all die

that being green prince and old karmelita

[brittle forum]

so i just killed ma boy green prince.....

[runic musk]

I kinda question how we are just ripping out their hearts from memories but I'm too dumb to think about it

[edgy stone]

Hornet really doesn't seem to have many ambitions

[chrome glen]

I think Red Memory is just a way for Hornet to gather her strength if you will to manifest an everbloom into existence

[edgy stone]

She does say she feels biologically urged to rule

[placid garden]

Rule what

[covert tusk]

Well her main ambition of protecting hallownest has been fulfilled so I don’t blame her

[craggy smelt]

she says to WL in the memory
'Strength... in mind, in care, in claw. Strength enough that I may live to see a world better than our own, or to craft a world as I desire'

so she'll do whatever she wants at this point

[edgy stone]

Anything

[chrome glen]

We see the weavers trying to instill into her to be a queen and to pray on people probably because of her half wyrm heritage. But Herrah specifically tells her not to do that but then also says something along the lines of do you even remember me without the mask

[covert tusk]

Lmao the ghost of the Pale King haunting her telling her to put statues up of herself and form Hornetopia (but fr that probably is the wyrm part of herself she refuses to talk about)

[edgy stone]

She says to the first church keeper that she feels something within her that likes the idea of ursurpping grand mother and rule pharloom

The pale kings biology literally forces him to rule lmao

[craggy smelt]

part of being pale ig

[edgy stone]

Even his children feel it as their nature

[foggy fractal]

yeah it seems like Hornet wants to make the world a better place
even the dialogue before act 2 suggests this as she wants to free Pharloom from the haunting and not just oppose a new ruler

[chrome glen]

It is interesting though that in Red Memory we see fairly clear depictions of Herrah, WL, Vespa, Weavers but all we see about the PK is white palace

[covert tusk]

The haunting still confuses me cuz I don’t think the citadel at first serves GMS, but over time it clearly became an extension of her will, but also half the people that serve her are dead

[foggy fractal]

Tammo I think has a better explanation

[chrome glen]

And that somehow WL and Herrah are the only ones that seem to directly speak to her in the dream/memory like not from the past. Herrah mentioning do you even remember what I said because of how long ago she spoke to her daughter. And I'm assuming WL since she's a pale being has an idea of what's going on

[spark valve]

the citadel was originally keeping her asleep, eventually they fucked around with silk enough that she could fuck back

[foggy fractal]

I think there was dicussion about this here before
conclusion was that Hornet is kinda indifferent it seems to her dad

[spark valve]

Cruel physician of Whiteward, responsible for operations and modifications on the Citadel's bugs.

Their procedures with Silk may have prolonged life within the Citadel, but they unknowingly gifted many minds to the monarch

[covert tusk]

Hot take(ish) but the only kid the PK really was a bad dad too was Hornet, the vessels were intentional and tragic but had to be done

[edgy stone]

Im not crazy and vespa was missing her arm right

[chrome glen]

I read it more as the Pale King never paid any attention since to him she was simply a means to have Herrah become a dreamer and he spent so much time with THK that THK ultimately failed. Ironically enough if he ignored THK like he did Horent THK would've probably worked haha

[covert tusk]

Oh so it’s like the yarnamite blood from bloodborne, in their usage of this ancient resource they unknowingly let gods behind their comprehension flood their minds

[spark valve]

sure I haven't played bloodborne but that sounds accurate

[foggy fractal]

that sounds about right

[covert tusk]

You’d think after killing that many kids he’d grow desensitized to seeing em but I guess when you finally have a successful one you value it more (this also applies to GMS kind of with the weavers, then widow, then phantom, then finally Lace)

[edgy stone]

I wonder if the pale king can even really feel connected strongly to his kids

It seems like it'd be against a semi immortal creatures nature

[chrome glen]

Well clearly enough to doom his entire goddamn plan

[covert tusk]

Little recap then for what methinks is the generalized story of the citadel
A group of bugs finds this mystical silk after the weavers were long gone, and use it and discover it can prolong life. This then led to the Holy Citadel’s formation as they had the gift to bless people with life, causing a reputation and pilgrimage system, as well as the creation of things like Fourth Chorus and Second Sentinel
Then GMS awakens I think or at least then gains control, and this system is corrupted as more and more people are worked to the bone (Deep Docks) and it gets more culty as GMS uses this to have her children as replacement for the weavers
(This is what Im gathering anyway I could entirely be wrong i don’t think I have all the details)

[spark valve]

more or less but the citadel caste actually directly took power from the weavers, they weren't gone

[covert tusk]

Well Unn, GMS, and The Radiance all have motivations related to their creations/kids, why not PK?

[chrome glen]

I thought that the weavers accidentally created GMS? Isn't there a relic that talks about their creation getting out of control or smth

[spark valve]

no they didn't create gms

gms created them

[foggy fractal]

isn't it the other way around

[covert tusk]

Ohhhhh, and that probably motivated GMS then cuz they harmed her creations, makes sense makes sense

[foggy fractal]

yeah this

[spark valve]

well, her creations betrayed her first, the citadel is kind of continuing that betrayal by keeping her asleep

[foggy fractal]

gms created the weavers
we see this with First Sinner

[edgy stone]

Most of them have children or made creatures to directly worship them

I just feel like the pale king wouldn't have fatherly instincts because of his whole eternal kingdom idea

Whats the point of a prince if the king will rule eternal

[covert tusk]

Keeping her asleep before the haunting or during like how we see her in game?

[covert hollow]

Technically doesn't unn give a charm to tk so ig it's like proto-worship?

[spark valve]

before the haunting, the haunting is the process of her waking up

the citadel's music used to keep her lulled to sleep but it's been silent for a while

[covert tusk]

What’s the point of a kingdom if you live eternal? You’ll outlive anyone who knows you anyway
Its about legacy, and what’s a stronger legacy than someone who may just outlive you if the time comes

[covert hollow]

And we see said haunting as silk threads in mosshome where they "resurrect" pilgrims

[chrome glen]

TBF I read that relic after like 15 hours of straight playing so my bad haha

[foggy fractal]

wait wtf there is needolin dialogue during fights ? who has the time to play it and see the dialogue lmao

[chrome glen]

Maybe during staggers? It's like in HK when you can just use dreamwielder and smack em.

not*

[gray iris]

whats the lore reason hornet is a spider

[covert hollow]

Also i just remembered that hornet and grymm both know they're in godhome while the rest don't

Besides pv

[covert tusk]

Ouhhhhhhhhhhhh
Damn so Trobbio actually had the right idea with his whole performance thing (even if it was then useless LMAO)
Also explains why Act 3 is so dangerous, not only is the void involved, but the void is completely silent, so GMS is fully conscious which leads to her causing chaos down there and creating shockwaves of void

[eternal gazelle]

oh do we finally know what's happening in this game

[covert hollow]

But that one doesn't think

[spark valve]

tentatively

[gray iris]

how is hornet a spider when she js literally a hornet

[eternal gazelle]

it makes sense intuitively I just don't remember that being stated

[chrome glen]

So does sheo. He's painting godseeker

[covert hollow]

Ohhhh i never noticed

[covert tusk]

Her name isn’t literal, we know what bees look like and Hornet isn’t one of em

[covert hollow]

I was busy smacking him

[spark valve]

I found it before but the current way to search dialogue is so bad

[gray iris]

bees aint hornets

[foggy fractal]

the real question you should be asking is why is she called Hornet
that's her name not what she is

[covert tusk]

They keep close enough you get my point her name doesn’t show off her species 😭

[runic musk]

Needoline stuns small targets if played near them.

[covert hollow]

Herrah had wild imagination

[foggy fractal]

yeah but bosses

[spark valve]

[Hornet]:You speak of the Citadel? Its former function has failed, but I can still sense its purpose, some. It is church and cage both.[NPC]:Aye. Devised by your ancestors that monstrosity, and their wicked, clever minds. A system, or a web they'd likely call it, a way to keep their mother sealed in slumber, and themselves free to lavish in their false rule

[runic musk]

Likely through staggers, they are fairly lengthy but i'd imagine at most you get like 1 line lol

[foggy fractal]

maybe lmao

[chrome glen]

So the weavers pulled a coup and then the originally leader said I'm back bitches and they fucking BOOKED IT. So then she sent her minions to hunt down her children to kill them. Fucking BRUTAL

[spark valve]

the weavers did a coup and then they got couped

but some weavers fled before that first coup

[high bane]

This is the line I was looking for! So yeah, the Weavers made the Citadel to seal Silk until she woke up because they kept sticking silk in the brains of their subjects.

[spark valve]

they built the citadel, then the citadel caste took it over yeah

[covert tusk]

With this in mind now I wonder why the Pilgrims had such a hard journey to the Citadel, at first I assumed GMS was intentionally trying to steer them away for whatever reason (which now would have been to dull out the music further so she could fully wake), but if the Citadel was fully in charge for a time, what purpose would they gain killing people’s who could assist in more song and prayer to keep their source of power knocked out

[chrome glen]

Also makes sense why GMS is so focused with Hornet. Probably one of the very few weavers left that is not imprisoned or killed and she is half wyrm so she is extra powerful

[chrome glen]

I mean have you looked at society LOL.

[edgy stone]

So we're the weavers ruling over the citaddl caste?

[foggy fractal]

joker society.

[spark valve]

the pilgrimage seems to be a thing the citadel caste created, you can see a number of pilgrims that joined the caste. It might just be intended as a difficult trial, especially since once you're a member of the citadel in theory you're supposed to be forever

[high bane]

Seems like it. They had themselves set up as gods before everything fell apart.

[spark valve]

no

[vague field]

i feel like if we ever get a ||karak/coral forest dlc, we'll enter it where you fight the watcher at the edge||

||till time, life anew, makes it seem like at some point in time a rebirth will occur||

[covert tusk]

Lace 2028 LMAO

[spark valve]

"By the will of the Conductors," we once boomed, and this Citadel shook at our decree.[NPC]:But the words... How hollow they echoed. The mantle of rule, claimed greedily from Pharloom's fading first children, those bitter Weavers... it was yoke, not crown.[NPC]:Now, in our Citadel's silence, we share their truth.
this is the conductor NPC

[chrome glen]

The watcher at the end is just a little enemy gauntlet then a boss fight

[spark valve]

the citadel caste drove the weavers out in their decline to take over the citadel

[foggy fractal]

How hollow they echoed... ? hollow... knight ?

🤨

[foggy fractal]

grr his name is Balador ! put some respect on the Conductor's name.

[eternal gazelle]

can we use caretaker shaman's name for them it's cooler

[chrome glen]

Also Lost Lace is rolling me right now. Anyone know if there is something after the 3rd phase or no?

[vague field]

im saying that if they ever did intend to restore what the area was at some point in development, this seems like a very significant spot.

[foggy fractal]

I don't think so ?

depends on what you refer as her third phase

[spark valve]

what was it again

[vague field]

LL kicked my ass so bad i decided to go get 100% first lmao

[eternal gazelle]

The Choir

[spark valve]

that is fun

[foggy fractal]

isn't the Choir just High Hall bugs or does that apply to the whole citadel

[chrome glen]

When the soup rises up and GMS gets really upset

[covert tusk]

If I was the Pale King I’d be furious basic mortal bugs had a cooler dynasty and system of power than me these guys were crazy lmao
I don’t think this is answered but I like thinking world building, I wonder what the inner hierarchy was in the citadel before it all mattered not and the GMS reigned supreme

[foggy fractal]

and the void starts seeping in ?

[chrome glen]

yessss

[foggy fractal]

I think she pulls one or two more attacks later but no phase after I think

she does do the giant void attack that go side to side again

and a 3 mask attack

[eternal gazelle]

Caretaker says hornet is neither a pilgrim nor of the choir, which suggests those are the two conflicting groups in the area

[chrome glen]

Because she fast af in that phase and I'm just wondering when I'm supposed to hit her during that. Or is it just a time trial survive kinda deal? After the void tendrils go side to side

[vague field]

do you guys think that they'll do similar things to verdania in the expansions, but bigger? I feel like the citadel and its waste have destroyed most of if not all of the world below it at this point, so going to an older version of the world dark souls style would be very fitting (and the only option if we ever want to see anything with clean water or thriving vegetation, lol)

[runic musk]

When you first 'defeat' Lost Lace she retains previous moves but will periodically do the waves. When she screams again she gains the circle attack seen before but thats it.

[stuck lichen]

bro can we get some fuckin mister mushroom lore cuz WHAT was that last conversation in his quest???

[spark valve]

I'm not sure they're conflicting, there are pilgrims who seem to join

[vague field]

i did the whole quest and already forgot like 80% of what he said, has it been compiled on any wikis yet ?

[high bane]

Pilgrims join the Choir sometimes when they reach the Citadel. That or the Underworks.

[eternal gazelle]

yeah that's true

[spark valve]

Agile bug, and one of few hardy pilgrims to have reached the Citadel.
This is the Choir Pouncer entry

[runic musk]

She becomes very aggressive but previously easily punishable attacks are still easily punishable. Notably when she does the saw things, darts, and both aerial attacks.

[spark valve]

It seems the objective of the pilgrims is to join

[stuck lichen]

main thing is that he calls hornet a wyrm child, shes very like knowing of who he is, asks him "do you think my efforts are in vain?" and he basically says thats not for him to say, since he only looks at the present
idk hes really interesting to me

[edgy stone]

One thing I really liked about the world in pharloom is how the weaver progenitors are everywhere in pharloom

[covert tusk]

I think it’s just separating the classes of Pharloom, pilgrims being the runts and at the bottom, The Choir being the higher ups
To be a pilgrim is to intend to try and reach Choir status, and Hornet has no such intention

[stuck lichen]

thought he was a gag character in hk but ss makes me feel differently

[foggy fractal]

so we got

The Choir
Vault Keepers
Automatons
Underwork Workers
Pilgrims

not in any order btw

[stuck lichen]

zz time to beat lost lace again for the stupid mushroom achievement ig............

[spark valve]

don't forget conductors

[stuck lichen]

idt i can ever get the steal heart achievement cuz lace 2 and lost lace both kicked my ass so bad

[spark valve]

and architects ig though those are automata

[covert tusk]

I wonder what gets someone to be an underwork worker, that’s way less flashy than being a Choir member
People who can’t sing maybe lmao?/hj

[eternal gazelle]

I wonder if the numbers at the beginning of the cogwork constructs' names are their unit number or their generation

[covert hollow]

I kinda think he's middle point between bugs and higher beings. He seems to know more that he should but he doesn't act on it at all

[tawdry flare]

he's a meta character so like relevant to his own stuff not really relevant to the story of hollow knight

[spark valve]

unit number seems more intuitive

[eternal gazelle]

like is there a first sentinel or are sentinels the second iteration of cogwork automatons

[chrome glen]

Yeah. I'm just used to fighting bosses agressively still from HK but it seems you have to treat her kinda like NKG

[eternal gazelle]

I agree

[foggy fractal]

right Conductors run The Choir
Architects are responsible for building cogwork stuff

[dim beacon]

its really funny how the shit they were doing in Pharloom makes the Pale King look like. just so much better.

[stuck lichen]

I feel like he kinda chooses not to engage, but he actively goes to dying kingdoms and even says he went to pharloom cuz of hornets actions

[eternal gazelle]

I kinda want to check the chorus lineup in underworks to see if what would be the 4th one is missing

[spark valve]

conductors call the shots for the whole citadel

[foggy fractal]

I see

[dim beacon]

say what you like at least the pale king wasnt doing that shit in The Slab in Hallownest

[stuck lichen]

Hey at least he tried his best yk

[chrome glen]

I mean he commited infanticide......

[dim beacon]

😭 i gotta appreciate that Yeah It Couldve Been Way Worse. he at least Tried

[eternal gazelle]

it's so very interesting that the two prisons in the game both use the thread ball as a symbol to indicate their purpose

[dim beacon]

even with that in mind.

i feel like that shit they doin in Whiteward was genuinely worse

[stuck lichen]

Ss is basically if pk deliberately infected everyone to control them

[covert tusk]

Pre Silksong Pale King looks like such an arrogant selfish man who caused a bunch of suffering due to his need for worship

And then you get to Silksong and realize oh wow besides baby killing the PK is actually like, chill asf

[chrome glen]

I just remembered that in red memory if you needolin'd one of the lines was "born bound" or smth along those lines

[stuck lichen]

Even the baby killing was like, what he thought he needed to do to save his kingdom

[edgy stone]

Its interesting that the citadel was meant to be a web for grand mother specifically as it isnt really that expansive

[dim beacon]

as far as higher beings go pale king was actually chill as fuck.

[edgy stone]

Compared to hallownest you find less citadel stuff outside of it in than like the city of tears and all the other areas

[dim beacon]

i mean he Is still an arrogant selfish man who caused a bunch of suffering due to his need for worship but Comparatively hes a saint

[covert tusk]

I’m forever a PK defender so what if he’s the world’s biggest abortion fan GLORY TO HALLOWNEST, WHATS A RADIANCE, WHATS A CITADEL, I ONLY KNOW THE GLORIOUS WHITE PALACE AND ILLUSTRIOUS CITY OF TEARS

[covert hollow]

At least his kingdom was an actual kingdom lmao

[stuck lichen]

Grimm had mindcontrolled slaves, silk mind controlled her whole kingdom, the radiance was just mad she was forgotten, who else do we have

[stuck lichen]

ONGG

[edgy stone]

If lifeblood does have a god hes pretty fucked up

[covert tusk]

The radiance killed everyone in the kingdom so she could puppet their corpses so she’d never be forgotten she’s the worst one here, at least Silk and Grimm left the mind mostly in tact 😭

[edgy stone]

Itd be cool if lifeblood does not inherently have a higher being attached to it but took one over instead

[covert hollow]

Unn but it's pretty chill

[dim beacon]

white lady?

[stuck lichen]

Ya but she was fine before she was forgotten the first time, she got Hella mad

[dim beacon]

Unn

[stuck lichen]

Forgot they're a higher being, they chill

[dim beacon]

okay unn and white lady are actually pretty chill. Unn has no crimes on the board and white lady has the infanticide

[foggy fractal]

also I really like the designs for the conductors, architects and vault keepers they all have really distint designs

[stuck lichen]

She birthed the abortion babies idk what else she like does

[edgy stone]

Like it mutated a god and took it over like we see it do in the wyrmways

[covert tusk]

Ranking the higher beings in HK

1. Unn
2. White Lady
3. Pale King
4. Grimm
5. Silk
6. Zote
7. The Radiance
8. The Shade Lord (it killed Garmond kinda I hate it)

[chrome glen]

Imagine the lifeblood creature we see in the abyss room is just the shade lord that lifeblood ate LMAO

[covert tusk]

HM: The lifeblood creature

[dim beacon]

zote is not a higher being

i feel like radiance goes above silk

[stuck lichen]

Idt the shade lord deliberately killed or took over anyone, in the true ending of ss it kinda shows his power is shockingly limited imo

[dim beacon]

radiance's thing was more of a blind rage while silk's shit is CALCULATED

[covert tusk]

Ermmmm, who else can spawn an infinite number of enemies? Yeah that’s what I thought 😛😛😛 (I thought it was funny I’m not fr)

[stuck lichen]

Like, the guy had to physically swim up to hornet to stop her from getting eaten by the shades yk

[covert hollow]

I forgot how much I hate gpz

His shit is so random

[stuck lichen]

Gpz harder than radiance and silk

[edgy stone]

Silks shit seems less harmful than the radiances though

[covert hollow]

So many p5 runs killed by him and MARKOTH

[foggy fractal]

also truth beauty and hatred is also a banger

gpz's theme

[stuck lichen]

Ya at least nobody is straight up mutated

[edgy stone]

Infection was a punishment and retaliation for how the radiance was treated

[covert tusk]

Calculated yes but also you don’t see any Infected Vengefly type transformations when haunted

[edgy stone]

The haunting seems like silks way to free herself and her brood

One is worse than the other

[stuck lichen]

grahh i have to kill lost lace again for the mushroom ending :c

[foggy fractal]

lost lace is not that bad if you abuse tools

some has a 1 minute kill

[edgy stone]

Always trigger parrys

[stuck lichen]

shes really fun but shes difficult asf, i dont really wanna spam tools

[edgy stone]

That is not a joke, if you see her parry hit it

[chrome glen]

I should probably use tools for phase 3 eh

[stuck lichen]

ya its a free attack usually

[chrome glen]

FOR REAL parry strats all the way

[edgy stone]

Hwr parry attack is by far her worse for her

[stuck lichen]

i spam lifeblood syringes

[heady moat]

Yo

Need lore videos

[stuck lichen]

ong mossbag gotta lock in

[heady moat]

has mossbag finished it yet

[covert hollow]

Mossbag isn't done yet

Lmao

[edgy stone]

I think her dash is the best honestly

[chrome glen]

I have refused to use it since it feels cheese to me

[edgy stone]

Its almost impossible to punish

[covert tusk]

Wait I just realized isnt Lace also a princess? She’s referred to as daughter of Silk, and silk is called Pale Monarch
Unless of course that title belongs to another one of hee daughters, since Lace’s title seems to be White Knight

[stuck lichen]

normal lace dash is great, lost lace dash is death

[runic musk]

Lost Lace dash is free damage

[edgy stone]

She would be a princess but it seems like phantom would be the biological heir to pharloom

[covert hollow]

Any lace dash is free damage

[stuck lichen]

my biggest issue with lace is the upwards attack

[edgy stone]

I think lace calls phantom her big sister

I'm pretty sure

Though it seems like lace was way more loved than phantom

[runic musk]

Funny because that aerial attack is like her most punishable one lol

[chrome glen]

For me I'm struggling with the one where she just smacks you with almost no windup. Like the close range slash thing. And I just hate phase 2 plus but I got a hatred for bullet hells so that's a me problem

[edgy stone]

Her void tendril is also free damage

[stuck lichen]

whats up with the heavy themes of motherhood in ss anyways, hornet recalls memories of her 3 moms to go into the abyss to fight lace and her mom

[covert tusk]

Still not over Phantom looking like THAT and somehow not being void at all, why the hell does she look like she slept in a paper shredder 😭

[heady moat]

so isn’t cc

[covert hollow]

Also wasn't i the only one surprised over tk saving lace

[runic musk]

I did learn though you can smack Lace when she does the 3 slash thing in Lace 2 and your attack hits first which knocks her back enough she misses the third swing

[heady moat]

UGH I NEED LORE ALTHO I KNOW A LOT OF IT AMYWAY BUT I NEED THE VIDEOS

[dim beacon]

fair enough but i feel like silk is still worse

[heady moat]

He has his own will so its not surprising

The true ending is so happy tbh love it, I want to explore a healing pharloom though, wish they’d let us do that

[stuck lichen]

lf wanderes journal for silksong

[copper cypress]

Hi, I was just popping in to ask if anyone knows what species The Green Prince is?

[heady moat]

like with hornet visit in g places

[runic musk]

Icl I keep getting hit by that way more than I should I started to just use the parry on it lol

[stuck lichen]

agreed, i was so sad to see it didnt continue after the ending. an act 4 without any quests wouldve been nice

[heady moat]

i think the DLCs will involve both lace and hornet fighting something else

[covert tusk]

It’s clear to me now why lifeblood was banned in Hallownest

[stuck lichen]

ya agreed

[covert hollow]

Fighting with lace like fighting with shakra would've been beautiful

[stuck lichen]

ur so right

[foggy fractal]

rip bozo

[stuck lichen]

dude i love lace and hornet together i need more lace dialogue

[heady moat]

Fuck I forgot to visit him despite wormways changing

[slow locust]

it's like a drug but that enhances your natural lifetime until a point it takes over

[covert tusk]

Dude it’s a tragedy that we never fought side by side with Shakra AND Garmond, imagine like, a forced encounter in act 3 where you’re getting attacked when they come and help you and you have to defend bellhart with them

[heady moat]

u can fight side by side with shakra

[covert tusk]

I know

I mean tho Shakra AND Garmond

[foggy fractal]

just not with both

[heady moat]

Shakra is such a peak character

[stuck lichen]

thank god shakra and sherma didnt die i would actually cry

[covert hollow]

That would have been cool fr

[runic musk]

Shakra actually can do damage as an ally which automatically makes her good

Instead of attacking every 5 seconds

[covert hollow]

I really thought sherma would be myla

[chrome glen]

When I heard shermas stupid mf bell that the end of act 2 I wanted to hit him. Idk why but that little stupid optimistic fucker

[covert tusk]

DUDE IM STILL SO SAD I WAS SO OVER WORRIED FOR SHERMA THAT GARMOND SLIPPED UNDER MY RADAR, I HATE YOU TEAM CHERRY RAHHHHH

[slow locust]

how did you rank them?? 😭 😭

[heady moat]

wish I could have interacted with shakra and sherma after healing
pharloom

[stuck lichen]

wtf????????

[covert hollow]

In the ant gauntlet in marsh i was just running around while shakra killed them lmao

[chrome glen]

I just unleashed the literal embodiment of darkness that is all consuming and he's over her just tinging away not a care in the world like BRO

[covert tusk]

How evil they are (the lower you are the worse you are)
Also the Shade Lord probably goes somewhere in the middle in all honesty due to it’s destructive cruel power, but lack of actual morals

[foggy fractal]

someone has gotta draw sprite version of Hornet when she starts to resemble GMS in one of those endings

[covert tusk]

Like Act 3 shows a state worse than Hallownests infection imo, but the Shade Lord doesn’t have anything to really do with it

[heady moat]

these snail
shamans look so similar to the ones in Hallownest

[stuck lichen]

ya theyre the same creatures

[covert hollow]

Probably cause we don't see hallownest while it was dying just when it's dead

So we don't see the affect of infection

[stuck lichen]

if the infection was allowed to go on longer it wouldve been force. starter area gets absolutely fucked

[covert tusk]

HES TRYING TO HELP IN ANY WAY HE CAN HES THE LEADER OF SONGCLAVE NOW HES GOTTA LIVE UP TO ITS NAME HES A LIL GUY RAHHHHH

[stuck lichen]

I LOVE SHERMA RAHHH

[slow locust]

Silk? like gms? also imo white lady, unn & grimm aren't thaaat evil unn i don't remember he has done anything bad also doesn't seem to care about infection cus he can't do anything white lady did what she could to protect hallownest and grimm well he's just one more of an endless chain

[ornate tiger]

My mobile wo laging in stream

[foggy fractal]

Shade Lord isn't responsible for the void damange in Pharloom ?

[high bane]

Void just does its own thing

[foggy fractal]

yeah

its clear that when tk does show up the void retreats in its presence

[covert hollow]

Maybe responsible but it doesn't care

[chrome glen]

Even the infected crossroads isn't radiance fully ticked off. THK is still holding her to a certain extent even after the seal breaks

[foggy fractal]

why would shade lord be responsible

[covert tusk]

The top is least evil so yeah I agree White Lady and Unn are innocent
Grimm is kind of nastily in charge of the troupe’s souls, it’s why Brumm is changed when the troupe is banished. He ain’t pure pure evil he’s just kind of not good

[covert hollow]

But imagine if saw hallownest civil war but radiance vs pk

[slow locust]

we'll we saw the (sorry i can't remember) the girl that fell in love with us and zote getting infected and sly they would look like they've eaten a fat load of any drug

[slow locust]

oooh

[covert tusk]

That’s what I mean, it didn’t intentionally do anything it just kinda exists, so while the void causes damage, the shade lord is just kinda minding its business

[chrome glen]

My understanding of Grimm is that the Nightmare Heart is the higher being while Grimm is just a fully grown Grimmchild that is meant to like transport/feed the Nightmare Heart?

[covert tusk]

Sorry I worded that wrong I think

[foggy fractal]

right

[slow locust]

he was born for the troupe and he died for the troupe

[covert hollow]

I think their pantheon selves aren't infected in the same sense and more like their best/worst selves

[covert tusk]

The bugs in the troupe besides the final nightmare kin, were ordinary bugs before, and got taken in by the cult of the nightmare heart
Grimm tho yeah born to die

[stuck lichen]

bruh first try, i was complaining for no reason

[covert tusk]

Yeahhhh, Grimm’s a vessel for it and the ritual involves basically birthing a newer younger vessel when the old one dies

[slow locust]

well what grimm could do? break the chain and don't hear what everyone around him told him to do and continue the legacy?

[slow locust]

it's to keep the flame burning

[stuck lichen]

the way silk helps hornet in the end when shes carrying lace makes me bawl my eyes out every time icl

[foggy fractal]

do we have any footage of a person binding GMS even when given the option to initiate act 3 ?

[covert tusk]

I’m not judging Grimm for his actions it’s just again he isn’t wholly innocent in comparison to people like Unn, but also not “Let me hunt down my traitorous creations but puppeting the citadel that used my powers as I tear it all down” levels like Silk

[slow locust]

i agree

-# who is silk? 😭

[stuck lichen]

just wanna point out, we have no idea what unn did or didnt do before pk came around, for all we know unn was also mind controling bugs n shi

[covert hollow]

Gms

[covert tusk]

THE WAY GMS SCREAMS RIGHT AFTER LOST LACE ROARS GOT ME THE FIRST TIME I SAW IT, PROBABLY THE BEST BOSS CRY BEHIND THE PURE VESSEL ONE HONESTLY

[slow locust]

oooh

[stuck lichen]

i love lace and silk sm they deserved better </333

[slow locust]

well she cares about her daughter at least

[storm wolf]

hello gamerz i just got 100% and would like to understand the lore more is there like a document or something to read

[covert tusk]

Unn actually eradicated the fabled lion village before the PK showed up LMAO

[chrome glen]

Only because it listens unlike the other children lol

[slow locust]

huh

[foggy fractal]

not yet

[covert hollow]

I mean we operate from the complete lack of lore tablets about their deeds and godseeker calling them higher being

[stuck lichen]

ye the whole of act 3 exists cuz silk wont let the void take lace

[chrome glen]

We know Unn created Greenpath and most likely QG until the PK took over

[stuck lichen]

sob

[stuck lichen]

lf more hk lore. we need a dlc with just a shit ton of lore tablets and nothing else

[storm wolf]

i more or less got the gist but im a bit lost on the nitty gritty. i dont really get grandmother silk's deal besides loving her daughter

[tawdry flare]

She wants to KILL Weavers

[covert tusk]

Motherhood as a whole
From the weavers she hunts down due to their coup against her, to the Citadel she takes ownership of due to their use of her, to Hornet who she presumably kidnapped to be another daughter and or murder, all of it is calculated and cruel motherhood

[covert hollow]

It's just romeo and juliet feud but among parent and children

[chrome glen]

GMS created the weavers who eventually threw a coup and put her to sleep so they could rule over pharloom. They eventually got couped and GMS woke up and decided that she was not a fan of her insolent children so went on a mission of imprisoning/murdering all of the weavers so they ran away

[slow locust]

i'm still in doubt what are the shades in the abyss doing like they're born (as far as i know) from the void molded to look like the vessels(not the species) the lady made

but without the vessels aren't they just void?

how do you even call the vessels of the vessels???

[stuck lichen]

74h save btw

[covert hollow]

Gg

[storm wolf]

why does she take ownership fo the citadel

[slow locust]

now 150%

[chrome glen]

My interpretation is that the shades are just the vessels following around the knight/Shade Lord

[stuck lichen]

:c

[storm wolf]

im scared to get this i just know theres some bs im gonna miss. pretty sure i already missed the cage dudes

[stuck lichen]

dude in hk i just did all 4 of these in the same save, idt im even like...... capable of doing steel soul in ss

[slow locust]

under THIRTY hours???

[covert tusk]

Wait I just realized does this mean that the First Sinner is like, the one behind the coup? Why else would she earn that name and that dialogue where she says GMS lied
Is the first sinner on our side actually??

[slow locust]

isn't the hk one like 12?????

[stuck lichen]

20

[covert hollow]

And under 5

[storm wolf]

honestly seems generous my casual 100% file was like 40 hours. and i wasted like 7 doing nothing

[stuck lichen]

speedrunner and steel soul are prob easy, speed completion and steel heart are uh not

[foggy fractal]

yeah 30 is very generous if you plan ahead

[covert tusk]

They stole the weavers powerful silk as well as her own and used it to form a theocracy
They’re mooching off of her and she wanted a way to fill the void of the weavers

[stuck lichen]

my 100% save in ss is 74h but i also lowk fell asleep a few tmes

[slow locust]

being honest the first time i tried to do speedrun i thought i had to do under TWO and always got impatient(?) on watcher knights because i had like 59min

[storm wolf]

boring ass game

[stuck lichen]

no ive just
not been sleeping

[storm wolf]

i figured i was just jesting

[slow locust]

hk steel heart wasn't that hard because i mayyyybe got all the masks shard and all the nail upgrades before i fighted anything

[stuck lichen]

gg

[slow locust]

i'll do the same with ss but i don't think it will help at all

[stuck lichen]

hk steel heart wasnt hard cuz the games really easy

[slow locust]

like everything deals 2 masks and i only have like 5 masks 😭

[storm wolf]

i see... so whats the deal with the haunting stuff?

[covert hollow]

Since pale oil is in citadel yeh, good luck lmao

[slow locust]

the thing i hated the most was sentinel hornet

[storm wolf]

silksong made me realize like 90% of the enemies in hk are glorified goombas

[stuck lichen]

sentinel hornet is hard on ur first run and then a cakewalk for the rest of ur life

[slow locust]

now that i play as her i don't hate her as much

[chrome glen]

I mean rn the any% is at I think around 1:15? 1:20?

[stuck lichen]

ikr? i like, went through some bosses in hk at some point and realized u can just....... facetank half the bosses

[slow locust]

the problem is that i fought sentinel once and then went to steel soul

[chrome glen]

So under 5 is plenty of time for deaths lol

[covert hollow]

Sent hornet isn't so bad. Fighting watcher knights without monarch wings tho

[slow locust]

1:20 i think

[covert tusk]

@storm wolf

[chrome glen]

The hardest part about HK steel soul was hubris

[slow locust]

huh

[storm wolf]

i did steel soul after pantheon 5 so it was overprepared

[stuck lichen]

i still havent done p5 💀

[slow locust]

p5 was last thing i did

[slow locust]

i tried to do some bindings before but i don't think i even got enough for lifeblood 😭

[slow locust]

get some sleep 🙏

[stuck lichen]

nono thats hk

[storm wolf]

also genuinely a bit miffed there is no godhome equivalent in ss. i dont need it to be as in depth i just wanna refight the bosses without going through this massive game again 😭

[stuck lichen]

ss

[slow locust]

I was preparing for that

[stuck lichen]

the times on the ss achievements are so bad tho, 7:!0 am is wild

[slow locust]

can we talk about lore now?

[tawdry flare]

Team Cherry giving us a house and allowing to Hornet to sleep but not dream of her past boss fights or something…..

[coral night]

Or 90% of enemies in silksong are overpowered ads?

[heady moat]

MOSSBAGGGGGG

[chrome glen]

It'll probably be in the DLCs they said they plan on doing just like in HK

[stuck lichen]

god ur so right, thatd be peak

[slow locust]

I forgot that hollow knight had dlc

[stuck lichen]

dude ss godhome would be so much fun, ss bosses are sm better than the hk ones

[slow locust]

because they freeee also wasn't ss meant to be a dlc too?

[covert tusk]

I can’t wait for some poor quality YouTube video to come out of all of Silksong’s journal entries and I’m 100% serious

[tawdry flare]

After fighting these bosses I WANT a Pantheon of Pharloom

[heady moat]

i want lace
and hornet DLC

and exploring happy pharloom

[covert tusk]

The final Silksong dlc is a Lace side mode and that gets too big so we get HK 3 from that

[covert hollow]

Godhome was added way later in hk so it will probably be added to ss the same way

[chrome glen]

Lace DLC. Coming in 2035

[slow locust]

Imo the worst thing about the ss journal is that it doesn't have the not bugs entries like the void idol or weathered mask

[covert tusk]

There isn’t a hunters mark in SS??

[storm wolf]

i dont think having more than 1 basic attack is overpowered

[slow locust]

and the zote appears and they want to make a dlc out of it but it gets to big and a new game comes out

[slow locust]

isn't it just a memento?

[covert tusk]

ZOTEBOAAAAATTTTT

[tawdry flare]

The ending implies they don’t return to Pharloom right?

[storm wolf]

they dont? 😢

[coral night]

Fair but running into some and getting hit for 2 masks feels more unfair for me

[slow locust]

how much time do you think hornet has lived?

in human years like 3 years at most

[storm wolf]

the contact damage complaint is valid

[storm wolf]

idk it kinda felt like she was 60 somehow but i know thats wrong

[foggy fractal]

ig some what ? all the evidence we have so far is the title screen being lace's pin along with hornet's needle on the surface/wastes
I don't see why they'd actually leave but who knows

[hoary flicker]

she's supposed to be really old no?

[slow locust]

yeah but i'd say the other bugs live up to 6 months

and the weavers 2 years

[storm wolf]

hk rulers must be mad jealous of us

well like yall are using small metrics and we live for like 80 years

[foggy fractal]

there is no real time frame we can give really
Hornet is just really old

[storm wolf]

it doesnt feel like she should tho

https://tenor.com/view/silksong-hornet-hollow-knight-glide-hornet-glide-gif-18442277835215129777

grown ass woman movin around like this

[foggy fractal]

well she was born before Hallownest's downfall
then lived through its downfall, then was there for who knows how long being its protecter

[edgy stone]

Also a supposed time gap between silksong and hallow knight

[chrome glen]

She also states that she's had many mates and none could match her life

[foggy fractal]

right

[tawdry flare]

God forbid a woman do anything

[storm wolf]

wait she does???

[chrome glen]

Yeah it's in the journal entry for the uh duo dancing boss I think?

[edgy stone]

Nah the 2 drill guys

[chrome glen]

Oh yup the duo fight for those

[edgy stone]

Y3ah we dont know the gap between silksong and hollow knight do we

[chrome glen]

It was one of the duo fights

[foggy fractal]

no

we don't know the time frames of any events

[edgy stone]

The only 2 characters we see from it are literally immortal

[chrome glen]

@storm wolf

[storm wolf]

that is insane

[stuck lichen]

bleh twisted child ending pmo, no tools no silk skills no nuthin

[tawdry flare]

Hornet says something like she was captured for a long while. So. Probably 600 years. Or maybe two months

[storm wolf]

whats that

[stuck lichen]

u kill gms with the curse

[storm wolf]

its so funny to me imagining them talking about eons and stuff and its taking place over the course of a weekend

[storm wolf]

i thought of doing that after i got rid of it 💔

[stuck lichen]

tbf theyre bugs, bugs usually dont live very long

[foggy fractal]

ig the wording could be interpreted as that she didn't actually have any relationships
she says "I once sought" not "I once had" and mates could also just be candidates
that or she did have partners but they all died off

[storm wolf]

can you send a vid of the ending pls

[stuck lichen]

ya sure

assuming i dont skill issue on gms

[storm wolf]

obviously its a different story with the curse but im genuinely a bit disappointed she wasnt harder. i assumed she was the hk equivalent and id fight her before the actual final boss

but nope shes just ez

[stuck lichen]

pogoin with with crest is deadass worse than hunter yall complain about the diagonal pogo way too much

[chrome glen]

I haven't really been keeping up for the past 3-4 days because of work but apparently we know the exact prerequistes to get the silk and soul quest and I am highkey upset 😂

Because that is so oddly specific lol

[foggy fractal]

oh we do now ?

[stuck lichen]

lace 2 is hard enough to compensate imo

[storm wolf]

what is it

[chrome glen]

Yeah in the HK speedrunning discord Monstahlar posted a thing under SS 100% that lays out a bunch of requirements

It's pinned

[foggy fractal]

could you copy and paste it over ?

[chrome glen]

https://app.milanote.com/1UVYpr1vDhIZd0/silksong-100-routing?p=4KWVkAUB4ds

[foggy fractal]

thanks

[chrome glen]

ctrl+shift+D for darkmode btw

[storm wolf]

i guess its meant to be more of a spectacle fight i imagine trying to work around her hair is nightmare enough

[foggy fractal]

also isn't Monstahler the person who uses karmelita as their pfp

[fierce vessel]

did anyone understand the lore behind plasmodium? i was under the impression that silksong was a prequel this whole time so that part isn't making much sense to me now

[foggy fractal]

finally after all this time karmelita is actually out lmao

[stuck lichen]

no cross stitch ability sucks

[chrome glen]

I believe so? I don't really pay a whole lot of attention to his profile picture LOL

[chrome glen]

Silksong has always been a sequel to HK

[edgy stone]

Act 1 and 2 are prequels

[fierce vessel]

yeah, don't know where i got the prequel thing from lmao

[edgy stone]

Act 3 is a sequel to hollow knight

Fuck tammos gonna call out my bullshit aint he

[storm wolf]

i cannot parse any of this

[spark valve]

karmelita is gay? good for her ig

[chrome glen]

If you click on the little icons it shows the paths. And if you click on the silk and soul quest it shows what you need to get it

[chrome glen]

GOD I WISH

[foggy fractal]

does she have any children ? she is the ant queen right

[hollow spear]

and

[fierce vessel]

how though, all the acts take place with hornet in pharloom and she never goes back in between

[foggy fractal]

no I'm just checking

[storm wolf]

wait does it really require all fleas i feel like i did that in act 3

[spark valve]

it's not true that was just inaccurate information

the whole game is a sequel

[foggy fractal]

also I fucking knew it silk and soul does require all maps

[hollow spear]

She takes a Stag station to Hallownest

[spark valve]

no it doesn't

[edgy stone]

I doubt it honestly

[fierce vessel]

true

[foggy fractal]

?

[edgy stone]

It seems like a massive part of the ants failings is due to her growing out of her prime

Which if she had an heir they wouldve taken over at some point

[foggy fractal]

she never does this 😭 !!!!

[edgy stone]

Red dream

[storm wolf]

then why does it say you need fleatopia?

[hollow spear]

It's implied that all the ants are her children tbf

[foggy fractal]

dawg its literally called

[spark valve]

it's wrong

[foggy fractal]

Red Memory

[fierce vessel]

they're trolling lmao

[edgy stone]

It has stag station in it

At least a sign for onr

[foggy fractal]

that's deepnest lmao

its the same layout and everything

[chrome glen]

Looks like just fleatopia

[spark valve]

I know of somebody who knows somebody who was able to get act 3 without fleatopia

[foggy fractal]

wtf

[spark valve]

it's probably not a hard requirement

[fierce vessel]

huh

[hollow spear]

Damn imagine one of your precious memories being in fucking Deepnest dude

What a hell of a life

[spark valve]

[fierce vessel]

that's where her mom was

[storm wolf]

yea its me 😭

[chrome glen]

fleatopia is not all fleas. I have it but I don't have all fleas

[heady moat]

they do

[tawdry flare]

Hiiiii

[runic musk]

Well if theres no heir its likely all the ants are just doomed

[edgy stone]

Deepenest didnt actively seem like an awful place begore the infection

All the red cloth and actual culture

[foggy fractal]

yeah fleatopia isn't all flees thats flea festival
but getting them to the lake is required. for act 3.... right....

[spark valve]

nope

[hollow spear]

To the Deepnest inhabitants it sure wasn't

[chrome glen]

Well Hornet is also half wyrm half weaver and her mother is the queen of deepenst. wtf is going to fuck with her haha. Also Herrah is permanently asleep and the weavers are in hiding/ran away so

[fierce vessel]

anyways, did you guys catch the plasmodium/Joni's blessing thing from hk? found that interesting

[tawdry flare]

Is it completion percentage? Is completion percentage what triggers the Act 3 quest?

[spark valve]

it has to be at this point

[chrome glen]

MonStahler made a thing

[tawdry flare]

It’s gotta be like 77%

[storm wolf]

itll be figured out in due time

[spark valve]

it could be like 70

[fierce vessel]

from what i've seen, it's finishing the wish boards and getting the fleas to fleatopia

[runic musk]

Nah minimum 65-70%

My true ending % was 71%

[chrome glen]

Wether or not it is 100% accurate yet who knows but MonStahler is a really smart person so

[spark valve]

but people have done it with getting neither of these

[fierce vessel]

oh strange

[chrome glen]

I don't have all wishes

[foggy fractal]

its gotta be man

[spark valve]

it might be 70%

[hollow spear]

weird

[tawdry flare]

Weird. By the time I got to Act 3 I had 78% but I had to move the fleas to Ducts to get the quest to trigger

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/soccer-football-anime-blue-lock-isagi-yoichi-gif-27440248

[tawdry flare]

Every Copy Of Silksong Is Personalized

[hollow spear]

i JUST got the quest by moving Fleas to Fleatopia

[spark valve]

didn't you know of somebody who didn't find vog though? so they didn't have to

[foggy fractal]

one copy someones gotta find me

[edgy stone]

Wait dont you need to be in act 3 to see your %??

[storm wolf]

is there a guide for all mementos. i got the birds, mantis, and the top of pharloom ones

[runic musk]

Yea just sayin if its % based it has to be at minimum ~70% or less

[foggy fractal]

hi

[tawdry flare]

You don’t need Vog to get them to move

[foggy fractal]

i will give wish TRUST.

[spark valve]

I couldn't get them to move until getting vog

[fierce vessel]

what's the mantis one

[storm wolf]

the prince

[chrome glen]

I would say use this map. Not sure how complete it is but https://mapgenie.io/hollow-knight-silksong/maps/pharloom

[fierce vessel]

oh the heart

[foggy fractal]

I think this was the case for me too

[runic musk]

On dark background it looks like a ball with a head

[tawdry flare]

Okay I’m convinced that Team Cherry randomly generates the conditions of Silk & Soul at the creation of a save file

[foggy fractal]

nooo my limbs

[fierce vessel]

was herrah a child of gms?

[spark valve]

I checked they wouldn't move
got vog
went back and they would move

[runic musk]

What's vog again

[tawdry flare]

Hold on lemme ask them

[foggy fractal]

argh this is too much for my head I arleady have 100% I'm going to seelp peacefully

[chrome glen]

Imagine. 100% runs would be pain

[fierce vessel]

the flea warrior

[runic musk]

Ah

[edgy stone]

Herrah is presumably a half breed right?

[storm wolf]

seth lives????

[spark valve]

no

[edgy stone]

Or less weaver than whatever is mixed within her

[fierce vessel]

not sure

[spark valve]

hornet is half weaver
herrah is therefore full weaver

[hollow spear]

I really liked how they left ambiguous of which RADIANCE DESTRUCTION ending is actually canon, between Dream No More and Embrace The Void.

[storm wolf]

i felt a bit bad for killing him so im glad hes alive

[edgy stone]

Her being a fullblood weaver would be incredibly weird

[runic musk]

I mean we dont kill him in the duel

[edgy stone]

We dont see a damn one that looks like her

[runic musk]

He kinda just gets knocked into water and gets amnesia or some shit

[spark valve]

it's not I saw somebody get the quest without having done groal

[fierce vessel]

so the weavers are all related to gms i guess?

[tawdry flare]

He pulls a Nymm

[foggy fractal]

yeah you can find him in greymoor, then in shellwood, then in flea festival

[hollow spear]

There's a explanation to why Herrah looks so different from the Weavers that we see across the games?/genq

[foggy fractal]

where you have to beat his highscore for a momento

[edgy stone]

They're made by her but not children directly

[foggy fractal]

though he seems to have amnesia

[edgy stone]

I didnt do groal before act 3

[runic musk]

Also lost his shield it looks like?

[spark valve]

the real answer is she was not originally supposed to be a weaver
the in universe one is uuuuh idk having a kid changed her body or something idk it doesn't make a ton of sense

[edgy stone]

Hes not needed

[fierce vessel]

idt i did groal

[foggy fractal]

also lost his coat

[hollow spear]

Weavers aren't exactly children of hers, but they're more like creations. Like Radiance and the Moth Tribe.

[whole hawk]

Is Herrah a confirmed weaver? Arent weavers not an actual species of bug but normal buga transformed?

[spark valve]

she's a confirmed weaver because hornet is confirmed to be half weaver

[foggy fractal]

yeah I can argue for other stuff this is just an epic TC fail

[storm wolf]

holy shit man 😭

[fierce vessel]

i was trying to understand who the weavers at the start of hornet's dream were, the ones getting her to use her silk power

[foggy fractal]

weavers

[spark valve]

the weavers in hallownest

[stuck lichen]

hornet and silk had a weird ass tree baby 😔

[fierce vessel]

yeah but like what their intentions for her were

[rocky kindle]

Wait, so lifeblood is plasmium?

[fierce vessel]

yup seems so

[spark valve]

weaver, guardian, queen

[stuck lichen]

the menu style

[storm wolf]

this is the canon ending for the next game

[foggy fractal]

ok when I wake up I better see an all silksong sprites document
matter of fact when it does release and one of y'all see it ping me
ok gn

[hollow spear]

yeah

[edgy stone]

Basically take pharloom over

Which makes sense for pale king being in her blood

[stuck lichen]

!! lace has to lock in and beat up the tree baby that ate her gf and mom

tc should hire me atp

[edgy stone]

As it seems like a thing she inherently desires due to his blood

[fierce vessel]

but from herrah's dialogue it seemed like she didn't want that for her

[hollow spear]

Yeah, SHE didn't, the others DID

[edgy stone]

Shes strong enough to resist but its saud that hornet feels an urge to rule

[tawdry flare]

Are we shipping Lacenet in the big 25

[lapis geode]

Idk if Pale King DNA is that useful for Hornet. She pretty much already quite strong as a daughter of a Weaver.. right?

[hollow spear]

Lacenet the biggest fall off of the century

[storm wolf]

ill have to do that next playthrough but like most things in this game itll take sooooooo long 😭

ill be sure to make sure my friends dont miss it tho

[spark valve]

insert the "this sign can't stop me because I can't read" thing but it's the caretaker dialogue saying lace is a child in body and mind

[storm wolf]

also thx for recording it for me

[fierce vessel]

she might not have had the power to resist then? maybe

[stuck lichen]

I just copy pasted my save and did a rollback

[tawdry flare]

My job is to make sure my friends miss it so they have to do Steel Soul

[stuck lichen]

Ya ts peak wdym

[lapis geode]

Oh shoot that might be true.

[stuck lichen]

Did u see the menu style after getting the true ending 🙄

[tawdry flare]

She’s a CHILD!!!! Ship Shawkra (peak) instead

[hollow spear]

Lace is in a really weird spot for being a minor or not being

[stuck lichen]

Is she

[tawdry flare]

^^

[spark valve]

Look of a child and a mind to match

[stuck lichen]

Oh

She looks like a bug idk

[edgy stone]

So like the basic ending is basically a loss loss for everyone but the weavers

[tawdry flare]

Lace is basically Hornet’s new immortal daughter or Something IDK

[edgy stone]

They kinda got what they wanted somewhat in the end

[hollow spear]

She is literally one of, like, the three characters that LITERALLY isn't a bug

😭

[storm wolf]

you know what they mean

[fierce vessel]

not sure what the weavers get out of it though, just a new ruler

[stuck lichen]

Shhh

[lapis geode]

I thought she pretty much an artificial bug, right?

[edgy stone]

I feel like thr best way to describe lace is that shes a doll of a bug

Shes obviously crafted to be reminiscent of one in some way

[storm wolf]

regardless i was a bit disappointed at how little we see lace in the game

[stuck lichen]

IKR I need more lace content

[storm wolf]

shes so fun

[stuck lichen]

Hollow knight: silksong lace dlc when

[hollow spear]

You guys are #DreamNoMore or #EmbraceTheVoid as your HK canon ending

[edgy stone]

Dnm

[stuck lichen]

Dunno haven't decided

[storm wolf]

godhome ending

[stuck lichen]

Tc at some point said all the endings are Canon or whatever the fuck it's probably a mix of the 2 ? Idk

[tawdry flare]

Both

[gloomy path]

whichever has the The hollow knight came back cured from his infection my canon ending

[hollow spear]

I think both are pretty good but storywise Dream No More, in my personal opinion, adds more to Hornet's character, since she acts in the defeat of Radiance and sees the Knight and THK sacrifice themselves in order to do it

[tawdry flare]

Everything that happens in Hollow Knight is canon, just two endings lead into Silksong

[stuck lichen]

In both the endings that are considered options for Canon rn he becomes the abyss lord

[hollow spear]

Embrace The Void is pretty lame to me since you literally don't need the Dreamers or almost NOTHING to do it

[lapis geode]

I always embrace the void.

Anyway, is there any video on youtube to get Silksong true ending with not too much spoiler?

I just want to get some clues and let me connecting the dots. Some videos out there just blatantly explain too much.

At least in Hollow Knight I know that equipping the void heart will unlock something. That clue is enough

[hollow spear]

Do EVERYTHING that you can in the Act 2 of the game, that's my tip.

[storm wolf]

where u at

[gloomy path]

i know that, i think theres only one where The hollow knight returns unsealed and cured

[lapis geode]

....explain everything

[fierce vessel]

i feel like dnm makes more sense considering he doesn't manifest back in hollownest and is most likely in the abyss from then on

[tawdry flare]

Do everything you can in Act 2 and watch Bellhart’s quest board

[hollow spear]

everything.

[spark valve]

Nobody knows how to reach act 3

[storm wolf]

keep doing sidequests and eventually the dude in songclave will give you a quest

[spark valve]

The requirements are completely arbitrary and seem to vary from person to person

Just do stuff

[lapis geode]

Just releasing the green prince and defeates the cogwork. Oh! And still in process of restoring the Songclave. And the mission to search for one character again that I forgot the name is

[edgy stone]

Someone will get the switch for the quest in the files right?

[hollow spear]

And Hornet too don't do shit in order to defeat Radiance, that IMO takes out a cool part of her dialogue with Lace abt Higher Beings falling from their heavens

[lapis geode]

Please don't tell me to hunt the savage beastfly

[hollow spear]

YOU WILL.

[lapis geode]

Just NO.
That big chungus is harder than The Judge!!!

[hollow spear]

You can do it, I believe in you

[hollow spear]

La Mosca Cabezona can be defeated, I know you can

[lapis geode]

Oh God No...
I just take the quest and thought I can ignore it.

[storm wolf]

just get max nail that trivializes the entire game

[hollow spear]

Just use cheats

[lapis geode]

...I can max the nail first? Aight

[hollow spear]

Oh

I think not 🙁