sk-lore

[formal geyser]

its pretty confirmed tho lol not as much as much as dancing on screen but it was pretty explicit to get hated by a tribe for loving one not from the tribe

[wise forge]

in silksong it's just said aloud

[spark valve]

it's said aloud in hk too ze'mer calls the mantis her lover

[drowsy mortar]

Oh Xe’mer right

[wise forge]

does she say lover?

[drowsy mortar]

Yes

[wise forge]

ohhhhh

[sinful nimbus]

The achievement is happy couple they're definitely gay

[wise forge]

nvm, we got 2 pairs of gays, lez go

[drowsy mortar]

I gotta go free my mans when I get back to playing later

[sinful nimbus]

Anyway so far SS only has 1 gay couple and zero genderqueer characters which makes me quite disappointed, and hesitant to call it the better game

Shame on team cherry

[drowsy mortar]

I wanna see his dialogue because I think he’s one of the few bugs still alive from the early days of Pharloom

[terse warren]

It does have pronouns though

Multiple people use "We" instead of "I"

[sinful nimbus]

PRONOUNS? Woke slop

[drowsy mortar]

Also can we talk about Hornet calling Caretaker out for being sus

[rocky edge]

True ending spoilers!! ||the true ending implies that the knight isn’t truly hollow. Also it shows that the only canonical endings are godhome or dream no more||

[spark valve]

hk explicitly indicates that first part over and over

[drowsy mortar]

We already knew the vessels weren’t Hollow

[wise forge]

that was the problem with them

well, "problem"

[terse warren]

Yeah I did that shit too lmao it was obvious there was something more to the shamans and the most obvious answer was snails, which they were

[drowsy mortar]

The entire reason the Knight is left to rot is because it’s seen as “impure”

[next sable]

Well, he also wasn’t fast enough in escaping the Abyss

[terse warren]

Not really? It just didn't climb out

[next sable]

THK beat them to it and the PK only looked for one that gets out

[terse warren]

PK chose the Vessel based on Sprintmaster philosophy

[next sable]

Yeah. It’s weird that PK just went with “whichever’s faster” rather than actually testing for hollowness, but he was probably desperate at that point and didn’t have the time

[wise forge]

it might also be a visual showing the knight climbing up while the rest of the children were left behind

and the PK found the perfect specimen

[dense chasm]

how would he even test that

[next sable]

That’s kind of part of my point

[somber storm]

like watermelons

hit them and check the sound

[next sable]

He doesn’t have a great way of testing, and to make a way of testing takes way too much time given the infection

[wise forge]

he is godly so maybe he just sensed it?

[dense chasm]

so like, if the ETV ending is cannon, what happen beetween Hornet and THK?

[wise forge]

we literally cannot know

[midnight lantern]

||lace|| death was sad

[terse warren]

It's either EtV or DnM

[solar agate]

This is the harp from Mosshome at the start, now as a spoiler || if you play Needolin you reveal a new secret message that goes as follows || I think I am actually leading to that ending we spoke about earlier

But I want to know the locations of them, I found this one randomly in || ACT 3 ||, I still ahve the save from ACT2 if you guys wants to help out with their locations

[whole holly]

i found that in act 1, you see it shortly after you get needolin ability so it is no brainer to try needolin

[polar bane]

in the organ mirror is that ||the pale king with lace|| or am i mistaking the outline

[solar agate]

Can you point me to others?

[spark valve]

phantom and lace

[violet hull]

So lace will die as granny silk no longer is alive?

[polar bane]

||so the phantoms in the mist are like the siblings in the 1st game ||

[violet hull]

There are nobody to sustain her anymore

[whole holly]

what other? this is only one i think? but there are other objects you can play needolin to but you discover them in late game

[wild falcon]

Hornet came from blazed steps and fell into moss grotto at the start of the game?

[strange galleon]

likely dog

[spark valve]

she gets a big injection of silk right before that in true ending, and hornet is around who might be able and willing to provide more, but potentially yes

[violet hull]

The bugs of pharloom also have a lot of silk, I suppose?

[solar agate]

Well there is that one at the lake where the flea caravan moves to for example, I am pretty sure I saw more and I just don't know their locations

[spark valve]

that uh generally comes from gms

[terse warren]

They don't really have a "lot" of silk

[true vector]

what happened to all the other ||weavers are they dead||

[terse warren]

The old bugs of Pharloom had some Silk in them, and as new bugs were born the silk both diluted and became part of their body

[terse warren]

No they just ran away from Pharloom

[spark valve]

the ones in pharloom are dead but many fled yeah

[true vector]

yippee

[terse warren]

Well the captured ones I guess we don't know for sure?

And First Sinner and Eva got bound by Hornet which might not fully be dying

Like actually speaking yes it's dying but also a part of Eva and Sinner are fused into Hornet

[spark valve]

for eva it isn't certainly

[spark valve]

Lace says that letting Hornet live is denying her mother her silk, at the very least them being killed is a possibility

[terse warren]

That's true yeah

But don't the cages in the cradle also talk about them getting taken somewhere else? Like one of the was brought to the City of Steel iirc

[spark valve]

no that's where they were taken from

[terse warren]

Ohhh

Ok hold on entirely unrelated

I was thinking of how the cages say how far down in the line they were

Like only half a weaver, an eight, a 7th

That's because all weavers are females and can't reproduce with each other

[dense sigil]

Is CKK the exiled husband of SSK

[spark valve]

I will say I looked back and didn't see a 7th, there's a quarter and two eighths

[spark valve]

probably

[terse warren]

But we see multiple weavers still alive. One in HK and two in SS. Are Weavers immortal? One of them was certainly older than Hornet and didn't seem to be in special circumstances like the other two

[terse warren]

Maybe I misread but it was also release patch when I read it so it might've just been a typo/error

[spark valve]

they may just live a while, or ss takes place a long time after hk

[regal scroll]

does anyone know wher the pokenabbin is

[strange galleon]

Silk and souls are linked, and weavers seem to be able to spin silk infinitely. So maybe that makes them immortal?

[spark valve]

first sinner was like dormant or something, and widow might not be first gen

[terse warren]

Oh I was also thinking Eva

Forgot about widow

[spark valve]

eva isn't a weaver and I doubt she ages

[terse warren]

Is she not a weaver?

[spark valve]

no she's like an attempt at an artificial god

[terse warren]

Ohhh

[spark valve]

divinity mimiced in form too frail or something like that? I think that was a line

She is a wish cast vain, divinity mimicked in form too frail.

[terse warren]

I guess but I don't see how exactly we could have a pure weaver be more recent

[spark valve]

first sinner is the only like definitely pure weaver and she's in the same state as the weavers in tombs initially

[terse warren]

They're all girls so they can't reproduce like that and I highly doubt GMS would create new Weavers after the betrayal

[spark valve]

she probably used some sort of spell to keep herself alive in that state somehow idk, that fight also maybe is a memory since it doesn't kill you if you die in it

[terse warren]

Widow just has her shell forcibly removed and her spine staked to block her silk

Nothing really indicating she isn't a pure weaver as her appearance is just a result of her punishment

[spark valve]

sure though it's not definitive that she is one

[terse warren]

I suppose

[gilded beacon]

What's the lore explanation for The Mist??

[spark valve]

I'm just saying that's a candidate explanation, it's also possible she just lived that long, it's not like weavers don't have long lifespans if they were alive during hallownest's reign and after the kingdom's fall during the events of hk

[spark valve]

probably somehow a byproduct of phantom, the mist would come from the exhaust organs and the banshee things are said to be expressions of another's will

[solar agate]

I think I found a pattern, they are near where you get power-ups or something weaver related like old ruins

[terse warren]

I guess so

I just wonder how long that lifespan is or if they're immortal due to not being fully natural because Silk

[terse warren]

Those harps are below every powerup thing iirc

And one of them is in the blue lake where fleatopia moves

[spark valve]

I think being immortal is unlikely

[gilded beacon]

Phantom's will? I suppose, and what's with the fake rooms and the butterfly that guide you?

[spark valve]

not much of an explanation for that really

well

the rooms are probably not real

could be some sort of pseudo dream shenanigans with phantom's music

[terse warren]

The rooms seem to somewhat be based off of actual Sinner's Road rooms

[solar agate]

Some are broken too

[gilded beacon]

As a whole I don't understand Phantom, but The Mist is what I understand less

[patent ermine]

out of curiosity, is there any indication of just how much time has passed between the events of Hollow Knight and Silksong? Or ||Act 2 ||and ||Act 3|| ingame?

[craggy smelt]

the Pipe Organ from the citadel is blasting out steam/exhaust filled with silk dregs, their weird magic is fogging up the area

Phatom's will is causing the ghosts to appear in their image

[gilded beacon]

Yeah, I understand that The Mist is caused by the Exhaust Organ, but I don't understand the rooms in-between and why the flies guide you

[solar agate]

My assumption the flies are souls of bugs

[craggy smelt]

the impression I got from the rooms is that the magic is messing with space, twisting things up magically

[solar agate]

in game when you kill a machine they leave out flies, it's teased in the game they put souls into machines

[craggy smelt]

or just making it hard to navigate, but that's less magical and less interesting

not sure about the flies, they might represent something that wants an end to the Mist

[gilded beacon]

Phantom doesn't want anyone to enter their room

[craggy smelt]

it might be some manifestation of a desire to isolate and keep others away

like the mask, a way to shield themselves

[gilded beacon]

I'm more convinced that the mask is mainly a Phantom of the Opera reference

[craggy smelt]

oh they whole thing is a reference yeah
but Phantom is still basically a failed creation, covering up is a sign of shame

[gilded beacon]

Maybe they insolate themselves out of shame too?

[craggy smelt]

maybe

[topaz thicket]

Hey i'm kinda curious but does anything in the game point to the origin of the butterfly at the start of the game that frees hornet?

[wise forge]

It’s also a reference to phantom of the opera who hides their face in shame as well

[gilded beacon]

We don't know if Phantom did something wrong to be insolated, so it seems that is mainly a self punishment

[craggy smelt]

Lace is seen with them in Deep Docks - possibly she freed Hornet in the hopes that she would die before being brought to the Citadel
she resented Hornet as a potential replacement 'daughter' for the monarch of Pharloom

[topaz thicket]

huh fun that makes sense yeah

[craggy smelt]

The hunter journal suggests they're in decline, so they may be dying and want to be alone for it
there's a needolin section in the Organ that shows a memory between them and Lace, I never got the dialogue from it though
I might go back and get it - get some delicious insights

[spark valve]

lace trying to deny her mother hornet's silk, which is also why she holds back in her fights, she probably wants hornet to kill gms

or rather give her an opportunity to do it, she says as much

[whole holly]

why is silksong game named silksong? i get silk part but where the heck is song as game mechanic

[craggy smelt]

you play music

[spark valve]

Letting you live was my rebellion, spider. I've denied my mother your silken strength. I've won. She can thrash, and waste, and know her pathetic, broken child caused the mortal wound

[gilded beacon]

I did and she ask Phantom: why us? Made for just decay?
Or something along those lines, Lace questions her own fragile existence

[craggy smelt]

they seem temporary beings, Phantom might regard the very fact that they're slowly dying as a failure on their part

[patent ermine]

... what's going to happen to Lace at the end of ||act 3?|| Considering the whole fragile bit?

[craggy smelt]

shrug most bugs aren't immortal

[gilded beacon]

She likely dies

[spark valve]

she might've gotten enough silk from grand mother silk to survive for a while, maybe hornet produces enough to keep her aliver permanently, maybe she absorbed enough of gms's power to live forever

lot of possibilities

[patent ermine]

future 2 player hollow knight game w/ hornet and lace /j

[gilded beacon]

Lacenet?

[craggy smelt]

Lace DLC begins development, it turns into a whole thing

[gilded beacon]

And Lace and Hornet kiss at the end

[craggy smelt]

sure, then everyone can shut up about it

[gilded beacon]

Yay

[tiny pecan]

we don't know

but we now know she had partners

[patent ermine]

its mentioned in a hunters journal entry that shes had more than one mate, but never mentioned specific gender

[gilded beacon]

In the diary she says "Mates" no boyfriends nor girlfriends, so yeah?

[gilded beacon]

It's likely that TC will let that to the fandom to discuss

[spark valve]

saying mates doesn't imply that those mates were of any gender or any number of genders

[tiny pecan]

do you think shippers give a damn about details like this? 🤣

[patent ermine]

headcanons? besides, its not like team cherry is shy about LGBTQ+ rep

[cosmic geyser]

Question about the ||Song and Silk trap:||

did the old geezer intend for that to happen?

[violet hull]

No confirmed preferences for her, I believe. You can headcanon what you want

[cosmic geyser]

Like did he know ||it would result in a void apocalypse?||

[spark valve]

||trapping mother silk? yeah. Everything else? no||

[whole holly]

why does greyroot curse hornet? what is her mission or motivation?

[spark valve]

the only reason the snare went sideways is because lace jumped in too, that's what makes gms continue to fight to survive and lets the void travel along her thread

[patent ermine]

honestly that entire segment makes shamans even more confusing 😭

[blissful harbor]

she’s spreading herself, she’s parasitic

[cosmic geyser]

I’m not sure it’s fully explained, it seems to be some sort of rite she believes in.

She’s a witch. It’s witch shit.

[violet hull]

She only did it when you accepted, though
Called it rebirth

[spark valve]

she's a xenomorph

[tiny pecan]

is it possible possible that Greyroot wanted to forcibly turn her child into a higher being?

[blissful harbor]

that doesn’t make it any less parasitic lmao

[cosmic geyser]

Maybe!

[blissful harbor]

horrible

[spark valve]

it's called INFORMED consent for a reason

[craggy smelt]

she turns Hornet into a host for that horrible little thing (you did agree to help, after all)

[violet hull]

So hornet is now a cool half wyrm, half weaver that has a symbiotic relationship with a parasite

[gilded beacon]

Use her as a guest for her parasite so she can reborn

Probably it's something natural for them, which makes me wonder if the WL also does this

[patent ermine]

At the end of the ||cursed|| ending, you can hear cracking coming out of|| turned-to-stone|| hornet, and then a scream

[cosmic geyser]

Get that thing removed or so help me I’ll

[patent ermine]

as if something being birthed

[cosmic geyser]

Mmmmm

Yeah, then it sounds like she wanted to hijack the process to further her kind

To create a higher being

[whole holly]

why can't she just reproduce like White Lady

[gilded beacon]

Root + Wyrm + Weaver being? Damn

[gilded beacon]

She has no mates

[cosmic geyser]

She can, we have her baby

I don’t think that’s what the goal of the plan is though.

[gilded beacon]

Maybe is just so she can live longer

[cosmic geyser]

I think she wanted her baby to ascend.

[whole holly]

even after we get cured?

[blissful harbor]

i mean she does create a twisted bud baby before cursing us

[cosmic geyser]

Yeah it burrows into her shell

[whole holly]

also what is Nyleth's Lore?

[cosmic geyser]

You can use the removal process to subdue it’s nature but keep it’s power

[patent ermine]

Kid becomes the new witch crest, so yeah, it still lives. somewhat

[cosmic geyser]

But if you don’t treat it and beat the final boss, it hijacks the ending

[craggy smelt]

plant-creature that created the growth of Shellwood
Citadel had a respectful pact with her for a while at least

[gilded beacon]

Probably the baby dies in the process

[tiny pecan]

it seems she was a ruler/goddes of Shellwood before Mother Silk took over everything

[spark valve]

looks like the same type of creature as isma, they wander around and eventually take root to create flora

[blissful harbor]

why does nyleth look like isma
are they the same kind of creature maybe

[cosmic geyser]

Maybe

[blissful harbor]

damn tammo i’m gonna start charging you for being in my head

[spark valve]

they do the same thing

[gilded beacon]

Why was Seth protecting her shrine? And also why did the Citadel build her a shrine in the first place

[tiny pecan]

now that I think about it - is Nyleth supposed to be a literal flower mantis

[patent ermine]

is it ever known how exactly Isma died? Maybe it ended up being a similar process to the whole curse thing?

[whole holly]

is She higher being?

[spark valve]

isma probably didn't die

[craggy smelt]

Seth seems to have been enthralled to act as a guardian - when the last of her power is used up, he's freed
the Citadel seems to have wanted to stay in her good graces for a while, and ensure a safe path through Shellwood

[cosmic geyser]

A ruler isn’t a higher being

Higher beings specifically have divine aspects to them

For the pale king, it was intellect

For the radiance, dreams.

[gilded beacon]

So is against his will?

[craggy smelt]

kind've put me in mind of the whole Brumm/Nymm thing
after being released from service, they forget the time in that service
doesn't provide any clues about how/why they entered service in the first place though

[whole holly]

what are those divine aspects? like there needs to be common recccuring trait between higher being for us to be accurately be categorized

[blissful harbor]

there is no common trait between Hbs really

[cosmic geyser]

A lot of that is left to interpretation, I don’t have a straight answer

[spark valve]

they're just gods

[patent ermine]

difference is, Seth still kept his ability, even if he doesn't remember how or why, but we dont know about Brumm/Nymms ability at all

[cosmic geyser]

Like is the Unn of green path a higher being? I’m not sure!

[blissful harbor]

in HK, most of them had some connection to the dream realm, but i don’t think that’s still the case in SS

[craggy smelt]

yeah, only broad similarities
still need to do the rest of Seth's storyline, see if there's more insights

[blissful harbor]

she for sure is

[gilded beacon]

Man, such a wasted opportunity
Especially since Nyleth seems to be one of Pharloom's original Pale beings/ Higher Beings

[pulsar fern]

yes

[whole holly]

so how can i determine if Nyleth is higher being or not? i assume Isma is not stated to be higher being so unlikely for her to be too

[spark valve]

nyleth doesn't really seem like a god

[cosmic geyser]

Considering gods can be killed

Perhaps the distinction is less important as it is self proclaimed

[patent ermine]

I dont think Nyleth is any more of a god than any of the other ex-rulers ever were? Unless theres something i missed in Hunters journal

[pulsar fern]

honestly some of the text implies all 3 are higher beings, it talks about seeking out power that existed long before GMS turned up

[whole holly]

can you list those higher beings

[cosmic geyser]

Hell, the god masters call every boss in hollow knight a god

[craggy smelt]

the term 'higher being' seems even more nebulous to me now

[spark valve]

nyleth is more magical than the others

[cosmic geyser]

Same

[pulsar fern]

except 2 of them, which is hilarious

well not bosses

[whole holly]

why? how can we determine, based on subjective opinion and games statement it seems to me?

[gilded beacon]

So Nyleth, Karmelita, Kahn and The Pale Deer are all higher beings?

[pulsar fern]

it seems so, yeah

[spark valve]

pharloom only has one definite higher being and that's grand mother silk

[spark valve]

no not remotely

[blissful harbor]

i haven’t met karmelita in game but i highly doubt she’s a Hb

[spark valve]

nyleth is the only one who's like even a possible candidate and that's dicey

[blissful harbor]

same for kahn

[cosmic geyser]

https://hollowknight.fandom.com/wiki/Hall_of_Gods

[whole holly]

can you show picture of Karmelita, Kahn and The Pale Deer?

[cosmic geyser]

All bosses are considered “gods” by the god masters

[blissful harbor]

godseekers are dumb we don’t listen to them

[pulsar fern]

they say to seek out the power that existed in Pharloom long before GMS shows up, unless they aren't referring to higher beings and Pale Deer is the only one

[patent ermine]

tbh i dont even know what the pale deer even is. Hornet doesn't even know if it was ever as real as her fight made it seem to be

[cosmic geyser]

And the howling cliffs specifically have notes left to “higher beings”

[blissful harbor]

they listen for godly resonance, they aren’t actually talking about it like we are

[spark valve]

palestag isn't a hb either it probably never even existed in the form we see it

Myth made real in memory. The creature seemed completely at one with the flora around it. Did it ever truly exist as I have seen it?

[craggy smelt]

the Palestag is called 'pale touched', that might imply more a blessing/creation by an actual pale/higher being, not that it is one itself

[tiny pecan]

godseekers seem to look for someone to worship after their gods abandoned them (at least seemingly)

[cosmic geyser]

Consdiering, in this game, Hornet makes a point that even divinity is fragile, and we see so many dead kingdoms

[blissful harbor]

thst is propaganda from PK to the bugs of hallownest, a stand in for “higher thought”
tablet makes much more sense when read like that

[pulsar fern]

hmm, maybe

[cosmic geyser]

I think a lot of the Higher being talk is self imposed

[cosmic geyser]

Oh of course! But that’s also my point

[patent ermine]

"Even gods can fall" ahh hornet

[gilded beacon]

Karmelita is definitely not one, but maybe Kahn is the higher being that created the Coral, like Unn with the Moss and once he died everything dried up

[cosmic geyser]

Any being of indomitable stature may be considered a god by it’s people

[spark valve]

the only reason nyleth is like a possibility if that she created a bunch of life and that has some loose analogues to what unn did, but unn did it over a larger area and by a way more potent method

[whole holly]

can you guys show picture of Pale Deer?

[craggy smelt]

'pale beings' now seem to be a category of god-like entities above everything
there are higher beings like Unn who aren't pale but still very powerful
the monarchs of ancient pharloom just seemed like powerful bugs/beings, not necessarily higher being/god-tier

[cosmic geyser]

But the only true constant higher power is the void at the center of the world

[cosmic geyser]

Which specially isn’t a god.

[spark valve]

he's called like the last lord meaning there were lords before so he didn't create it

[patent ermine]

speaking of. why exactly did the ||Knight save Hornet? I thought Void was supposed to be empty, unfeeling?||

[blissful harbor]

“pale beings” are just soul related gods i feel like

[spark valve]

because the knight isn't those things

[cosmic geyser]

For the same reason the hollow knight plan originally failed. No being is truly hollow

[whole holly]

White Lady doesn't have significant relation to soul

[tiny pecan]

the key word being SUPPOSED

[spark valve]

yes she does via kingsoul

[blissful harbor]

she was part of creating kingsoul

[spark valve]

she also has the rune shield which is soul

[cosmic geyser]

Even if the knight was an empty slate when it arrived at the edge of Hallownest, it certainly wasn’t by the end

[patent ermine]

i wonder if that'll have repercussions at any point hmm

[blissful harbor]

she also gives us her half of kingsoul with a soul particle effect, she can definitely use it

[whole holly]

yea but that is only connection and rune sheild, you are basing it on two things, but pale king seems to have deeper connection to it

[spark valve]

they both do

[whole holly]

1,5 things ig

[spark valve]

they are both
called pale beings

[tiny pecan]

and also, the knight clearly managed to mantain its conscioussness in the void

[cosmic geyser]

Chat, real quick, do the three (4) ancient kingdoms we visit in act 3 correspond with a color?

Red, green, and what?

[craggy smelt]

still noodling on the whole Soul thing, and the pale beings seeming connection/conflict with Void

[spark valve]

I don't know what you're asking

[pulsar fern]

probably not, but seems that even though the void accepted the Knight, the Knight and the void are clearly at ends with eachother, but it also shows that the Knight still exists, which is... interesting

[blissful harbor]

it’s said somewhere void likes to devour soul, right? that’s the answer

[cosmic geyser]

The way I understand it, it’s a bit of some Evangelion / Deltarune kinda beat.

In darkness, nothing is distinguished, all is one.

In light, all is revealed, one is all.

[spark valve]

yes

[whole holly]

White Lady compared to Pale king doesn't have significant connection to soul, Pale King is depicted with soul particles but white lady is depicted with dream particles in Godhome

[cosmic geyser]

Void isn’t a sentient entity, it’s a short of shared existence.

Wheras pale beings and their kingdoms have distinct hierarchies.

[craggy smelt]

yeah, when provoked it seeks out and consumes Soul

[spark valve]

because... she's in a dream...

[tiny pecan]

and you can see other vessels in the background - though it might be that the knight "commanded" them

[pulsar fern]

I think it was more metaphorical, the idea that Wyrms/Pale Beings are closely followed by Void, i.e: They are beings who want to create, and so the void will always balance it out as the force that wants to destroy

[whole holly]

they both are, but Pale King has more direct relation to soul

[trim vapor]

whats the meaning behind her cramping at some points in the game?

[pulsar fern]

I don't think it's any meaningful connection, just an interesting insight into how the void works

[spark valve]

pk's room in wp also has essence particles

[whole holly]

especially in white palace as well

[blissful harbor]

sure he does, thst doesn’t mean WL doesn’t

[pulsar fern]

basically think of it like matter and anti-matter if that makes sense

[spark valve]

pk has a robust connection to soul nobody is arguing he doesn't

[cosmic geyser]

If you just started the game please leave this chat, haha. Enjoy it for yourself.

But the reason is just the after effects of being bound in the silk cage for so long.

[craggy smelt]

White Lady mentions that 'our family is forever linked' with the Void
not sure if she means all pale beings as some kind of larger group, or is talking about her and PK and the siblings (and therefore Hornet) and their situation

[trim vapor]

i have 100%d

[cosmic geyser]

The cage had a seal of binding on it

It weakens her power.

[trim vapor]

she cramps at the start of act 3 too tjhough

[blissful harbor]

pretty sure she means the royal family and the vessels and shit

[cosmic geyser]

Probably got wounded by the grab or the void

Since the grand mother almost kills her with that command grab before lace saves her

That move was brutal

[whole holly]

nobody is arguing WL has zero connection either, but i was comparing her to PK, hope this provides more insight

[spark valve]

they... both do
that's the point
that makes them both pale beings

[cosmic geyser]

Girl almost cracks her spine

[pulsar fern]

I do think it's kinda sad that in the end, GMS was seriously willing to give up their control purely to save Lace, they really aren't the heartless gods we kinda expected they'd be

[craggy smelt]

could be - PK mentions 'blazing kin' in refernence to the Radiance, and 'shining against the dark'
that line always made me wonder if there was a greater conflict between beings of light (pale beings?) and Void

[spark valve]

I mean she was dead either way it was just a matter of time

[tiny pecan]

well, maybe except radiance 😛

[whole holly]

that doesn't answer my point, and is misrepresenting my point

[blissful harbor]

Rad isn’t a pale being though, so she wouldn’t really be included in the family WL was talking about, no?

[cosmic geyser]

Lace in the third act seems to imply a lot of grand mothers acts through the game were self preservation.

[pulsar fern]

as I said, I think of the situation like having matter and anti-matter closely linked, Pale Beings create and rule, Void destroys and consumes

[cosmic geyser]

Self preservation isn’t inherently good or evil, it’s just one’s nation.

Same reason one wouldn’t necessarily call the radiance evil: it’s just that it’s own survival hurt so many bugs.

[craggy smelt]

are we sure about Radiance any longer...? Silk is also described as pale. It might be a term that refers to more than just WL and PK after all

[spark valve]

in the third act her actions explicitly are not motivated by self preservation

[cosmic geyser]

Exactly.

That’s what I’m saying.

[pulsar fern]

I thought Radiance was a result of being forgotten and a curse?

[blissful harbor]

the first game, it’s always used to refer to just PK and WL, even in moments where Rad is also mentioned

idk why she would suddenly be one

[cosmic geyser]

The pain it causes through the game are for it’s own survival. But it’s willing to put that aside for saving it’s daughter

[blissful harbor]

she’s not even white she’s yellow

[cosmic geyser]

A being that exists only in dreams

If it is forgotten, no dreams remain.

So it would die.

[craggy smelt]

7 years of lore development wouldn't exactly be sudden

[pulsar fern]

It's a very intersting parallel to PK, who sacrificed everything purely to stop the Radiance

[whole holly]

no she is white except for her eyes which shine yellow

[blissful harbor]

unless you have a reason to think so, then imma have to say no lmao

[cosmic geyser]

That’s why, if you dream nail it during it’s boss fight, the radiance exclaims it’s desire to be remembered

[pulsar fern]

ahhh alright, thank you ❤️

that makes more sense

[blissful harbor]

Rad isn’t mentioned in this game, nothing suggests she’s a pale being

[spark valve]

I mean he's stopping her to save the kingdom it's not out of spite or whatever

[cosmic geyser]

A little pompous, of course

But having an “enemy” implies a fear of being smothered out

[pulsar fern]

nah I know, but their actions showed the lengths they were willing to go to in order to stop them

[craggy smelt]

I think what the term 'pale' encompasses has been expanded with silksong lore
Silk is called a pale being, Hornet refers to herself as one also, and talks about how its either 'dominance or destruction' with them

[pulsar fern]

PK really wasn't a bad person though seemingly, i'd kinda be interested to learn more about how the Kingdom of Hallownest worked when it wasn't in shambles, but I suppose that'd kinda ruin the point lmao

[blissful harbor]

those are in line with what we know about pale stuff already, PK is a pale being makes sense hornet would be one
silk is soul related, which seems to be the overarching theme to paleness

[tiny pecan]

though I wonder, whom did she considers her anceint enemy - PK or the Void

[spark valve]

pk certainly, maybe void but it wouldn't make quite as much sense

[craggy smelt]

also some visual similarities between Silk and Radiance that make me wonder
weird spindle legs, haloed by their respective powers (light/silk), use blades and floor spikes
definite allusions, might just be meant as gameplay reference though and not necessarily lore

[peak harbor]

the void, i’d imagine , as it’s implied the void may have been unified/controlled by a civilisation prior to hallownest’s inception a very long time ago

[frank dove]

Why did hollow knight get infected?

[pulsar fern]

Also I guess you could say when it comes to the Void and Pale Beings, it seems things aren't so black and white?
i'll see myself out

[cosmic geyser]

Likely void, since void is referred to as from the ancient kingdom in the basin

Btw, cool lore for those interested! You know that big guy who spits acid from the cealing everywhere?

[pulsar fern]

yes

[cosmic geyser]

If you come back after killing him, you actually find its babies there!

[pulsar fern]

oh I know LMAO

[tiny pecan]

oh, that asshole in moss grotto?

[cosmic geyser]

Reading the journal: apparently the species fight for dominance until a new one can become the new alpha

I wonder: if I left explicitly one live: would the boss respawn?

[tiny pecan]

yes, I know him, I got to that room CLEARLY before i was supposed to

[pulsar fern]

no

[frank dove]

https://tenor.com/view/d9luxe-wolf-gif-8308069160251473616

[pulsar fern]

I tried already LMAO

[cosmic geyser]

Could be a timing thing like the silk egg mistress bug

That one guy, I forget his name. Where after a while he makes a new silk eater for you

[craggy smelt]

Styx

(I like that guy)

[cosmic geyser]

I found another of his kind

Presumably his original mistress.

[frank dove]

He eats people

[cosmic geyser]

Don’t we all sometimes

[frank dove]

He prob ate his mother

[tiny pecan]

a.k.a. how Hornet (unwillingly) became a slave owner

[pulsar fern]

the what

OHHH STYX

[cosmic geyser]

But yeah, I found Styx’s old wifey

[frank dove]

🫲 🐷 🫱

[cosmic geyser]

She lives in Putrified Ducts

Gave me a meat quest.

[craggy smelt]

you mean Huntress? they do look alike, does Styx mention anything about her?

[pulsar fern]

I was typing the same thing until I realised you said it lmao

[tiny pecan]

ah, the Huntress

[craggy smelt]

I checked up on her towards the end of the game, and the eggs are all broken and she's gone

hope we brought her enough meat for the kids

[cosmic geyser]

He mentions his old mistress left in his needlion dialogue

[pulsar fern]

probably not sadly :/

[frank dove]

🥀

Those are some hungry kids

[tiny pecan]

now that I think about it, the Huntress speaks like Styx

[cosmic geyser]

Chat ima be real, I’m still questing to unlock act 3

But

I think I like this game more the hollow knight

[frank dove]

They have the exact same head and body shape

Likely mates

[pulsar fern]

it's better, trust me, also why are you here if you've not finished act 3, WE HAVE SPOILERS HERE

[frank dove]

Then he ran off so he didn't get eaten

[cosmic geyser]

After beating act 2 I didn’t mind spoilers

I got college work now, I can’t no life this game anymore anyway

[spark valve]

it's better than hollow knight even if it does have some uh [interesting] mechanics choices

[frank dove]

75% the spoilers in the game are act 3

[cosmic geyser]

More specifically my masters classes

[cosmic geyser]

Yeah I know it’s fine, I watched others play through act 3 after I wrapped 2.

I don’t have the time to keep playing this all day since I’m taking 4 masters classes

[frank dove]

That's a lot

[cosmic geyser]

But I’m satisfied I finished the game without a guide

[frank dove]

gl

[cosmic geyser]

I played all of act 1 and 2 almost completely guideless

[gilded beacon]

In case of a boss rush DLC what special bosses do you expect?

[cosmic geyser]

Only time I must confess I did was getting out of Far Fields, I didn’t realize the games quest system was that important at the time

I kept killing the enemies and not noticing I needed to collect their weapons

[craggy smelt]

there doesn't seem to be any sign of Sharpe or the other steelheart bugs, little sad about that, I'd like them added at some point

[cosmic geyser]

No

[craggy smelt]

unknown, she did have mates
she outlived them

[cosmic geyser]

Or at least, not that we know of.

She has had mates before though.

[tiny pecan]

oh god, now that i think about it, if we get Pantheon of Pharloom...

[cosmic geyser]

Keep in mind, her anatomy is one of a kind

[twin pilot]

I am stunned that they’ve been hiding another lore tablet after those tablets

[vital island]

Why is Grandmother Silk so angry?

[cosmic geyser]

My neurotic brain has already started tryna piece together how the bosses would fit in catagoies of 9 (10)

[cosmic geyser]

She wants to wake tf up, she’s wrapped up in a binding prison of silk

[vital island]

Howd she get there?

[tiny pecan]

there are som any bosses, beating it would tke hours

[cosmic geyser]

The people of the citidel harness her power for immortality

While also keeping her in subterfuge

They are hypocrites

[vital island]

I didnt realize that shey bound her to do it, I thought she was giving them the thread

[twin pilot]

I didn’t finish P5 because I simply couldn’t find enough two hours without distractions in my life

[cosmic geyser]

They want the higher beings power, without it’s authority and jurisdiction

That’s why they needed the weavers silksongs

But when the weavers fled, because they were being used, they couldn’t keep it up

[blissful harbor]

her cloak looks so faded in HK

[cosmic geyser]

And that’s what led to the haunting.

[twin pilot]

So if SS has any Pantheon I would simply ignore them, yeah

[cosmic geyser]

I did the original 4 pantheons in HK

I didn’t do the pantheon of hollownest, too boring

[ancient nexus]

Spoilers for Act 3
I trekked back to ||The Huntress'|| room in ||Putrified Ducts||, but I couldn't find her, and all the eggs are cracked
Is she hiding somewhere else? Did the eggs hatch? Or were they broken open? They look very much like they were hatched, but if so, why would ||The Huntress|| just up and leave what is definitely her very safe nest?
Can she be found elsewhere in Pharloom after Act 2?

[cosmic geyser]

HK’s combat is too one note for me to wanna grind it

I’d play Silksong’s tho if it has one

Silksong’s combat is incredible

[buoyant wyvern]

HK is easy to learn hard to master

[cosmic geyser]

Even mastered, it’s just too stiff

It’s serviceable.

Not bad, but not better then it’s peers.

[craggy smelt]

maybe we didn't bring her enough meat to feed the babies...

[buoyant wyvern]

Well you are a borderline undead husk

[twin pilot]

Mask maker is still being themselves

[cosmic geyser]

But Silksong improved the combat so damn much.

[lethal ridge]

||i went back to this room to deliver the quest in act 3 and the eggs hatched and used her own meat in the face of famine as sustenance, one of the hatchlings talked to me instead of the huntress and gave me longclaw||

[cosmic geyser]

It’s clear team Cherry put a lot of attention into this.

[twin pilot]

Still speaking riddles

[cosmic geyser]

High level silksong feels elegant in movmenet

[craggy smelt]

different mask maker, but yes
truly they are wise and knowing beings

[cosmic geyser]

Especially with a diagonal dive crest

[blissful harbor]

the most interesting group

if not for their batshit insanity

[gilded beacon]

I wish that we get a version of Sisters of Battle where once one of the Mechanical Dancers is defeated the Green Prince appears and re-unites with his lover

[storm spruce]

why are there only ||3 bell beastlings when there were 4 when you first met them, I wonder where the last one is|| (act 3)

[twin pilot]

I once thought the masks were connected with Pale King
But now it seems everyone needs it

[thorny pawn]

So what is Grandmother Silks motivations for causing the haunting?

[cosmic geyser]

Freedom

It needs hornet

[thorny pawn]

wym?

[tiny pecan]

so super Clover Dancers? sounds great, actually, we'd finally see how he looks like

[thorny pawn]

WYM.

[twin pilot]

It’s curious why both of them are like half-mad and half-wise

[blissful harbor]

only SS’s mask maker is half wise
the other one is full crazy

[gilded beacon]

I just wanna have my boy get a happy ending, also it is a well loved boss fight so I don't think that people would be mad about it

[twin pilot]

Like they have seen something that’s beyond the capacity of their mind

[blissful harbor]

but really, seems to be about “the original mind being destroyed”

[gilded beacon]

Either this or three clove clover, and it's three bosses at once idk

[craggy smelt]

brothers of battle

[tiny pecan]

is it possiblew that after the weavers stopped worshipping Silk and left Pharloom, she wanted to create a system when nobody would stp obeying her?

[blissful harbor]

*lovers of battle

[twin pilot]

And what about the Pale King providing wisdom and insight to bugs in the Hallownest

[gilded beacon]

Three-some of battle

Or reunited lovers

You choose

[twin pilot]

Still, could just be some kind of worship…idk

[craggy smelt]

the impression I got was that the Weavers turned against Silk and bound her
she took over the Citadel and sent them after the Weavers to harvest the power she needed to free herself
and possibly also to sustain Lace

[vital island]

What specific relationship did the weavers have with Grandma Silk? Were they her literal offspring? Why did they consent to bind her?

[craggy smelt]

she created them from pharlids, transforming them into the first weavers
they seem to have developed a grudge against her, saying she lied about them being her divine daughters

[twin pilot]

Do we know why Herrah insists to have a child with the PK?

Haven’t finished the game

[stuck lichen]

true ending was so good i might cry

[vital island]

Probably to pair her line with the diefic power of the Wyrm and ensure security for the outcast tribe

[craggy smelt]

originally, we assumed it was so she could have a child with royal blood to ensure her claim to Deepnest's throne
she was described as 'just a common bug' in HK, while the dead king of Deepnest was 'honored caste'
now, maybe it was originally part of this scheme by the Weavers to create a savior
but she seems in the end to want Hornet to have her own life and destiny

[ancient nexus]

That's crazy! And cool! I was really worried about permanently missing out on a pretty decent tool if I started another game without visiting her after Act 2! Might have to start a new game to see all these neat easter eggs

[twin pilot]

Does anything in SS supports this or just not mentioned ?

[craggy smelt]

we see a memory of Hornet and Herrah, she seems pretty dismissive of the other Weavers' opinions re. Hornet

[blissful harbor]

the scene of the weaves just staring at hornet going “yesss child, show us the silk” is hilarious to me

[twin pilot]

So they did spent a short period of time together…good to know

[blissful harbor]

such a short period hornet cant even remember her face

[craggy smelt]

lil babby hornet
the line 'show us you're more Weaver then Wyrm' was great

[arctic mountain]

Cogwork dancer fight plays out as normal but when The last cogwork dancer performs the aerial dance by himself while hes falling to the ground, the green prince appears and catches him. the reunited dancers battle then starts. Peak cinema ensues.

[stuck lichen]

i wish they gave us some dialogue between lace and hornet tho

[twin pilot]

I have been spoiled that ||the Lord of Shade aka the knight saved Hornet in one of the endings||

[gilded beacon]

Peak gay cinema

[craggy smelt]

that's a hell of a thing to be spoiled on

[gilded beacon]

Wth

[twin pilot]

Yeah but here we are…

[stuck lichen]

lf staff

waow my wish came true

[gilded beacon]

Quick, wish for Silksong dlc

[stuck lichen]

lf silksong godhome

[craggy smelt]

oh nooo

[gilded beacon]

Pantheon of Pharloom

[arctic mountain]

Silksong godhome where characters have happy endings 🥺 act 3 destroyed me

[stuck lichen]

what if they just do the same dlcs in silksong, grimm troupe and godhome 😭

[gilded beacon]

What would be the extra bosses at the end of each Pantheon?

[stuck lichen]

my interpretation is that lace and hornet are happy together now

[gilded beacon]

First the Plasmium update

[stuck lichen]

yaya, it adds one useless pain in the ass area and like nothing else

the hive is really cool dont get me wrong

[gilded beacon]

Wormways 2 electric wormgaloo

[stuck lichen]

!!

[twin pilot]

I am curious about what happened to Hollow Knight and Hornet during the period in between HK and SS

[stuck lichen]

a 4th bilewater spinoff

[stuck lichen]

well hes the abyss lord and she travelled to pharloom

[gilded beacon]

Ok hear me out

[craggy smelt]

a line in the Slab from the Weaver cage section mentions other lands
'Sandsea Wastes, Blackbarrens, City of Steel'
Not every reference to 'steel' relates to the Steel Clan (Jinn, etc.) ofc
but if they do have a city, then I guess the City of Steel would be a prime candidate for it

[arctic mountain]

Bilewater with blight town framerate dlc

[stuck lichen]

watch them make city of steel steel soul exclusive

[gilded beacon]

One of the bosses at the end of the 4º pantheon is the Knight

[stuck lichen]

THAT WOULD BE SO SICK

i want lost gms zz

[twin pilot]

Well by HK I mean Pure Vessel, or the not-pure-at-all vessel

[stuck lichen]

abyss lord knight

[craggy smelt]

I think it's more likely SS follows up after Dream No More, so THK wouldn't still be walking around

presumably returned to the Void with the other siblings

[gilded beacon]

Maybe also a battle against Twelfth Architect where they use the tools that they sell

[stuck lichen]

lowk cant remember all the endings wait

[twin pilot]

But if we have ||the Shade Lord||, the knight must have finished the Pantheon

[arctic mountain]

Id really like to know how much time has actually passed between games

[craggy smelt]

we only see a brief flash of Shade Lord, but TK appears in their Void Given Form state (end of Dream no More)
the Shade Lord's appearance might just be an allusion to what TK will become, not a sign that they are that

[stuck lichen]

deadass the godhome ending makes the most sense with silksongs ending tho

[twin pilot]

Exactly

[arctic mountain]

Anywhere from a week to a an apocalyptic amount of centuries

[violet hull]

Poor hornet

[craggy smelt]

i don't think time really matters
what would change between it being 1 year or 1000?

[arctic mountain]

1000 years in bug time

[violet hull]

At least she has a nice home in pharloom and now has an adoptive sister in lace? Unless she wanna travel back to hallownest of course

[gilded beacon]

Do bugs even have a way to tell time? Like clocks?

[craggy smelt]

lotta clockwork at least

[violet hull]

I definitely believe they do

[stuck lichen]

wait maybe dream no more makes more sense nvm

[craggy smelt]

there's reference to time measurements in Deep Docks i think, all music related

[gilded beacon]

That's more like a gigantic music box

[arctic mountain]

Cogwork dancers but they just tell the time of day

[stuck lichen]

bro sister? i wanted them to kiss at the end of the game zz

[gilded beacon]

Each one of them is a different needle of the clock

[violet hull]

I mean, she does call Lace a child constantly, though it could just be meant as an insult

[twin pilot]

It changes everything cause she actually does belong to both of the kingdom, and probably the only heir and protector of Hallownest

[arctic mountain]

Gay clock yaoi

[craggy smelt]

technically, Lace would be Hornet's aunt

[stuck lichen]

would she

is there a familial connecteion between gms and hornet?

[craggy smelt]

daughter of Hornet's grand mother

in the sense that Silk is the mother of the Weavers

[gilded beacon]

Now for the real question.....
Which of them is the bottom?

[twin pilot]

She had been working as a protector even after Hallownest fallen and would sacrifice herself to end its misery

[arctic mountain]

Isn't lace more of a construct than an actual offspring of gms

[twin pilot]

So I don’t think she would just abandon Hallownest

[craggy smelt]

sure, and the Weavers are uplifted from regular beasts
not literaly bloodlines here, it's all god magic

[stuck lichen]

Are they??

[twin pilot]

But if that’s ages ago, then sure she would want to move on

[arctic mountain]

Silky white magic explains everything

[blissful harbor]

they use to be pharlids

[arctic mountain]

Thats the power of soul

[stuck lichen]

Need mossbag to make a full silksong lore video

[violet hull]

Same

[twin pilot]

So I’d like to know the exact time in between

[craggy smelt]

that'll take another 7 years

[blissful harbor]

we see the evolution happen actually

[craggy smelt]

it was pretty neat

[gilded beacon]

White liquid explains things,
Evil Black liquid complicates everything

[worn flicker]

so whats the deal with the discarded statue of a pilgrim under the vaults

[arctic mountain]

Definitely the one on the left

[gilded beacon]

The Mossdeer entry suggests that bugs for believe in evolution

[craggy smelt]

those fools

no, evolution is real, but in this world so are gods

[arctic mountain]

Silk/soul and void are basically just the matter/anti matter of hollow knight

[blissful harbor]

we know evolution is real because primal aspids are a thing lol

[twin pilot]

Wait a minute, if weavers were all magical creatures, why Herrah was called a beast

[gilded beacon]

Both vers, they are completely equals

[blissful harbor]

but i mean it’s not literally evolution for weavers

[blissful harbor]

because retcons, she was called a common beast specifically

[noble nest]

herrah isn't a weaver

[blissful harbor]

she is now

[spark valve]

she is now

[craggy smelt]

she came to live/rule in Deepnest, and the tribes there are called the Beasts

[noble nest]

Amazing

[twin pilot]

She is a spider but not a weaver?

[blissful harbor]

she’s a weaver fully

[next bronze]

I think it's just a alias since she commanded Deepnest

[arctic mountain]

True verse gay power couple

[blissful harbor]

SS went out of its way to make sure that was clear unfortunately

[noble nest]

and did he know by then?

[craggy smelt]

she married the king of Deepnest at one point, possibly to join the refugee Weavers with the Beast tribe

[gilded beacon]

The Green Prince just complicates things (in the best way possible)

[next bronze]

But who exactly pulled Hornet to Pharloom?

[craggy smelt]

bunch of Citadel bugs

[next bronze]

It was the other Weavers?

[stuck lichen]

btw what happened to the weaver in hk

[next bronze]

I mean like
Who ordered them to get hornet

[stuck lichen]

silk

[spark valve]

grand mother silk

[craggy smelt]

Big Mamma Silk
Citadel was hunting down every Weaver

[twin pilot]

Well not really a surprise if Hallownest despises and degrades them in words

[blissful harbor]

it fucked off, to some other land
would’ve been cool to see it in SS ngl

[next bronze]

Oh, so why would she fight back?

[spark valve]

why would who fight back

[craggy smelt]

why wouldn't she

[arctic mountain]

Hornet is a rebellious independent weaver wyrm God hybrid

[twin pilot]

She was a victim no doubt

[craggy smelt]

bunch of freaks show up with a cage to catch you, who wants that

[spark valve]

hornet doesn't know what's going on and even if she did getting abducted and taken to cradle seems like a bad thing actually

[next bronze]

Cuz she wanted Hornet to save Pharloom anyway, so wouldn't she just like
Help

[spark valve]

since when does she want to save pharloom

she's kind of the problem here

[next bronze]

It's not "save"

[twin pilot]

Well, the PK wants the same for vessels

It’s using not helping

[next bronze]

But the point of the silk she gets for all of pharloom, isnt it to hold the void?

[spark valve]

... no

[next bronze]

I interpreted it that way at least

Like shes crazy and a problem
But the void takes over if theres not silk

[tiny pecan]

no, void was unrelated to all this until the snare

[craggy smelt]

no, she wants the power for herself, to break free
the Void attacking Pharloom happens because of the trap used to try and bind her another way

[spark valve]

she probably wants hornet's silk to keep lace alive

[tiny pecan]

snail shamans used the power of the void to break Silk's control over Pharloom citizens without killing her

[twin pilot]

We don’t see Radiance in SS, right?

[next bronze]

It really confuses me to think that void had nothing to do before the trap bro

[spark valve]

they were trying to kill her

[runic musk]

No hints or signs of her.

[craggy smelt]

bugs need to just leave that shit alone

[next bronze]

Yeah thats facts

[craggy smelt]

it was more so that Hornet wouldn't have to bind her and take her place
Hornet figured it would remove her without having to replace her
but she didn't realize what would happen as a result

[arctic mountain]

GP: This is my boyfriend cogwork dancer, and his boyfriend, the cogwork dancer

[next bronze]

But the abyss seemed really agressive to had nothing holding him back

[twin pilot]

It still bothers me that void can somehow be solidified as a creature and even a god…

[gilded beacon]

Does it count as a polycule if the dancers share one soul?

[next bronze]

And the fact void took over after she was gone, It can't be related to the fact the silk ALSO holded the void?

[spark valve]

void isn't aggressive on that scale normally that was specifically caused by gms being submerged

[next bronze]

like, the trap didn't made any void spill for itself

[spark valve]

no not at all it only did that because she WASN'T gone

[craggy smelt]

the Void was following Silk's threads - she was holding on to the kingdom to try and keep Lace alive within the Void
without something to provoke it or summon it, Void would probably be less hostile

[next bronze]

Oh

So its kinda of what I am thinking

[spark valve]

her struggling for life is what kept the threads intact and the void used the threads to climb

[next bronze]

Its not exactly the silk but silk mother itself

[spark valve]

no she wasn't holding it back

[next bronze]

So void was just chilling

[spark valve]

the strands in act 3 are her silk her silk is the problem it's why it could come out

[next bronze]

Bros were sleeping this whole time

[arctic mountain]

Doomed yaoi polycole x3 the fun and heartbreak

[next bronze]

Like knight kinda controlled it tho so it would make sense

[craggy smelt]

pretty much, then Snail Shamans summoned it and dunked a big angry god into it, got it all riled up

[next bronze]

It makes sense it makes sense

[gilded beacon]

TC just hates happy gays

[next bronze]

But how silk goddess actually got that strong?

[arctic mountain]

I hate the snail shamans so much

[spark valve]

she's a god that's just what she is

[next bronze]

Just like radiance then (in the question that they were just born gods)

[blissful harbor]

that is a question i have
i haven’t gotten to act 3 yet, but from what i can tell void starts corrupting shit, does TK just have no say in anything where tf is it at

[terse warren]

they were just trying to help

[spark valve]

apparently it doesn't have anything to say about it it's a lazy bum

[craggy smelt]

we don't know where these crazy god ladies are coming from

[next bronze]

Yeah thats my confusion lol

[craggy smelt]

gods exist here and there, is all

[next bronze]

I thought hornet being brung up to Pharloom was all planned to save the place

[arctic mountain]

We get sheo and nailsmith atleast . Team cherry really likes tragic gay mantis characters tho, that's 3 confirmed now with the green prince, his lover, and the mantis lords daughter

[next bronze]

By the other weavers and shi

[terse warren]

I don't think TK really gives a shit about a random ass kingdom especially considering how widespread the void is, it's probably breakfast for TK

Their sister however

[next bronze]

Yeah I think the same way

[gilded beacon]

They just hate mantises

[spark valve]

it could intervene in the destruction being wrought it just... chooses not to

[craggy smelt]

the Weavers might have been training Hornet to be their savior, but that's not why the Citadel brought her to Pharloom - two different groups with different agendas

[blissful harbor]

they only cared when hornets death would’ve actually been their fault lmao

[next bronze]

Thats some big coincidence wow

[arctic mountain]

Lore wise, mantis bugs being queer coded actually makes so much sense consider how male x female mantis pairs end

[craggy smelt]

the Weavers ran and the Citadel was hunting them down, they probably figured they'd try and prepare a counter somehow

[next bronze]

Yeah I got that from the memories and other lore hints

But I mean, It's a coincidence in the point that gms made hornet come to Pharloom just to get her silk, and she was specially trained for that moment lol

[spark valve]

not really

weavers probably anticipated parties being sent to capture them eventually

[next bronze]

Her being one of the last weavers

And considering they were hunting them down

It makes sense

[craggy smelt]

Silk was just after anything Weaver related

[arctic mountain]

Herrah sent hornet to wasp training knowing hornet would be hunted someday

[craggy smelt]

oh yea, pretty great that the three queens thing is canon

was happy about that

[next bronze]

What's that?

[whole holly]

Vespa's training did not disappoint

[blissful harbor]

she was a weaver she knew what was going on
but three queens is a cool idea but like

it doesn’t really make sense

[craggy smelt]

hornet was suggested to have been the 'child of three queens' in early lore - it was never confirmed in the first game, as TC stated they weren't sure it was canon
but born from Herrah, trained by Vespa, raised by White Lady was the idea
and now we know it's true - hooray!

though 'raised by WL' seems more like 'spent time with WL'

[next bronze]

OH YEAH this theory

[stuck lichen]

was that a theory? couldve sworn it was canon

[arctic mountain]

White lady taught hornet how to shaw and addidas

[blissful harbor]

it is now

[next bronze]

I'm brazillian so idk the theory names u guys use sorry lol

[spark valve]

that appears not to be a barrier

[gilded beacon]

So this just makes canon the "Daughter of three Queens" right?

[next bronze]

thats why my english is kinda washed too

[arctic mountain]

Daughter of three queens and one dead beat father

[next bronze]

She seemed a really important and sentimental figure to hornet, so I would say raised is a fitting word

[craggy smelt]

lol yeah Hornet didn't have much respect for PK it seems

[blissful harbor]

seems like the weavers did all the raising if you ask me

[terse warren]

PK was literally the opposite of deadbeat and that's why his whole plan failed

[arctic mountain]

Pale king went to get milk at the white palace for hornet and never came back

[stuck lichen]

bleh gotta buy out all the shops now that sucks

[arctic mountain]

Hollow knight was the favorite child

[surreal bolt]

In weavenest. There was a thing about "sisters waking up". What did they mean

[gilded beacon]

Pale King was an awful father, a great husband and a better ruler

[tawdry flare]

No

[surreal bolt]

Pale king is like harry. Gave up when he saw what he created

[arctic mountain]

Pale king being an only good father to one Of his children and that being the ruin of his kingdom Oof

[little bone]

does the ending mean that the pantheon flower ending was canon

[spark valve]

no

[stuck lichen]

dream no more is probably canon

[little bone]

which one was that

[terse warren]

I remember the Wingsmould entry saying "Only a fool would think Void could be contained", does she also say anything else?

[craggy smelt]

just that, as far as I've found

[tawdry flare]

TK, THK, and the Siblings kill the Radiance together

[little bone]

oh

[stuck lichen]

true ending

[arctic mountain]

Her mentions of him in ss certainly give the air of disdain for him

[stuck lichen]

https://hollowknight.wiki.fextralife.com/Dream+No+More

[next bronze]

the cannon ending is Embrace the Void no?

[tawdry flare]

It’s both endings probably

[stuck lichen]

i mean she knows about the power of the flower which says something

[terse warren]

It's either EtV or DnM

[tawdry flare]

ETV and DNM

[blissful harbor]

both could work

[craggy smelt]

could be either one, but I think DNM is more likely
Shadelord's appearance might just be an allusion to what TK could become, not what they are
they appear in their Void Given Form state

[little bone]

i feel like it could go either way i dont really remember how the dream no more ending went tho so i could be wrong

[blissful harbor]

but the lack of thk with the siblings makes me lean towards etv

[stuck lichen]

only issue is, how would she know about the flower

[gilded beacon]

Can you blame her? She knows all of the bad things he did + he really wasn't ever with her as seen in the flashbacks, she doesn't really have a reason to love him

[terse warren]

EtV doesn't require hornet to see the everbloom

[spark valve]

she does not see it in etv

[stuck lichen]

oh yeah ur right

[arctic mountain]

Maybe like a dark souls type ending where pieces of different endings are what make up the canon

[terse warren]

She probably learned about it from Ze'mer in the time she was living at White Palace

[blissful harbor]

i wonder why you could never offer it to her

[next bronze]

But it doesn't mean she does not know about it

[stuck lichen]

lowk forgot that ze'mer has one

[terse warren]

Ze'mer has many

[next bronze]

Yeah

[stuck lichen]

yeah wait what the fuck is up with that

[terse warren]

And also they start growing on the traitor's daughter's tomb so

[stuck lichen]

why do we need the power of 3 gods to summon 1 when ze'mer has like a garden of them

[tawdry flare]

Those are like lesser Everblooms or something

[next bronze]

By the way we actually see knight, I really think we are talking about ETV here unless its dark souls like byte said

[little bone]

probably cause its from another kingdom

[craggy smelt]

Hornet can't be bothered to go all the way back to Hallownest

[spark valve]

they aren't gods and because none are around

[stuck lichen]

life if hornet took a journey back home instead of fighting 3 gods of old

[noble nest]

Do we have a specific name for the white tools?

[spark valve]

skills

[terse warren]

It could also be EtV

[tawdry flare]

Oh is Nyleth not a being like Unn?

[craggy smelt]

"Just rip it out of my memories with ancient hearts of power."

[arctic mountain]

I feel like you couls go even deeper and say hornet has a disdain for her wyrm half and its vastly extended lifespan not allowing her to ever have love

[spark valve]

no she's an isma

[blissful harbor]

zemer’s tag is being mysterious, ofc she would have an ancient flower of light

[foggy fractal]

hey Tammo just give an idea of how old Hornet is
what events have happend since her birth ?

[tawdry flare]

Oh that makes more sense

[craggy smelt]

hey, it's Andy

[foggy fractal]

hey guys

[spark valve]

at minimum bunch of hallownest's lifespan, then its fall, then ages of it in ruin

[gilded beacon]

Hi Andy!!

[blissful harbor]

hornets age: ancient

you could put her in a museum

[craggy smelt]

outlived a lot of others

[stuck lichen]

whys there a third moss fight

[craggy smelt]

oh nooo

[proven siren]

is sprintmaster the same from hallownest? did he just trackstar the whole place and go to pharloom to find harder competition ?

[terse warren]

Damn tf where

[stuck lichen]

to the left of where i am

[terse warren]

Uh

[arctic mountain]

Hornets lifespan honestly just sounds apocalyptic, she'll see the rise and fall of kingdom after kingdom

[tawdry flare]

That’s not the same guy

[foggy fractal]

👵 <- Hornet

[proven siren]

why ?

[gilded beacon]

Maybe? I'd say that she hasn't had many couples since the infection thing got real serious, with all the "Watching over Hallownest" thing

[craggy smelt]

Swift's colors actually look more like Dashmaster charm...
this lore sucks

[blissful harbor]

it’s weird cause he looks like dasaster

[proven siren]

oh yeah youre right he does look like the dash master charm

the wish icon is the dash master charm too

that is a bit odd

[craggy smelt]

just wait 'til Dash Master shows up in person, and he's colored like the sprintmaster charm...

make THAT make sense...

[terse warren]

Tbh I don't think Hornet despises PK much

It's not like she would've known better in his place

She might moreso just be "man what a fumble"

[blissful harbor]

she never speaks highly of him
i don’t think she has a positive opinion

[terse warren]

I don't think she really cares at all

[foggy fractal]

yeah she seems indifferent

[terse warren]

"He was one of the gods of all time that's for sure" - hornet

[stuck lichen]

wonder if pk was tricked by the snails too

[craggy smelt]

he actually did control the Void, in small ways

[terse warren]

Wingmoulds are still there after all

[craggy smelt]

and it did solve Hallownest's problem, sort of
a little on the late side

[terse warren]

And so are Kingsmoulds

[gilded beacon]

Btw, are the Snail Shaman's actually the descendants of the Ancients?

[terse warren]

The only fault is PK's plan was being too good of a dad

[craggy smelt]

I don't think so
Crossroads Shaman didn't recognize the power TK gained from the AC stuff in the Abyss (Abyss Shriek)

[blissful harbor]

that’s been my theory for a while

[terse warren]

Interesting theory but no fucking clue

[blissful harbor]

or they found their artifacts

[terse warren]

There's no real connection

[spark valve]

they aren't

[terse warren]

Aside from "mhhh Void me likey"

[foggy fractal]

nah snail shamans in hk didn't mess with void

[spark valve]

though they got retconned so who knows

[stuck lichen]

in ss they say its in their nature to mess with the void

[gilded beacon]

They do know about void

[terse warren]

Herrah wasn't a weaver in HK

[arctic mountain]

Pk being a good father to 1 out of his 10,000 children

[spark valve]

yes that is directly contradicted by the first game

[craggy smelt]

I think that in light of the pharloom shamans messing with Void, the Hallownest shaman's turning into dark energy in some cases needs to be reconsidered

[gilded beacon]

+3 billion children*

[craggy smelt]

it could be that only some of them used it, and in a different way than the AC
hence Crossroads Shaman not recognizing it
maybe he was too untutored, or didn't recognize how the AC was using it

[serene field]

these things are the origins of the judges right?

[blissful harbor]

i mean they aren’t void themselves

[craggy smelt]

sure

[arctic mountain]

Pk had some potent magic going on huh

[terse warren]

Maybe crossroad shaman is just the black sheep of the family

[terse warren]

Where they at?

[serene field]

i don't remember the name in english i think its blasted steps

[foggy fractal]

yeah that's a pretty big retcon it seems
I said what I said because we were talking about pk and he had no indication of being tricked by the snail shamans either way but until TC tell is its kinda up in the air (regarding snail shamans messing with void, if the snail shamans in hk are now retconned to have too, or only ss shamans do dabble with void)

[gilded beacon]

Actual question: if the WL is a root, how or even why does she lay eggs?

[spark valve]

"it isn't a place my kind ever thought to look" is pretty unequivocal

[arctic mountain]

Soul magic

[craggy smelt]

bug(like) husband

[gilded beacon]

Mpreg

[arctic mountain]

If something doesnt make sense just assume Soul is involved

[foggy fractal]

now the real question is
do you guys dabble with void ?

[blissful harbor]

the eggs fall off like apples

[spark valve]

if you played hollow knight you did pretty extensively

[craggy smelt]

voidabble

[arctic mountain]

We get a little silly with the void

[blissful harbor]

alternatively, PK laid the eggs

[foggy fractal]

damn guess I'm a void truther now
void touched Andy deals double dmg

[gilded beacon]

A little freaky even

[terse warren]

Well if that's a dialogue then it straight up got retconned since we see the opposite happen in SS

[craggy smelt]

Lost Andy

[buoyant sedge]

Massive Ending spoilers
|| Does anyone notice that in the true ending it is little hollow knight's shade, not "The Knight" . I might be wrong, I just want to confirm||

[gilded beacon]

The true answer

[spark valve]

which is dumb and lame but yes

but however you slice it to justify that line it rules out being descended from ac

[foggy fractal]

oh yeah ig that's the official term

Lost Andt 🥶 🥶 cold name ?

[terse warren]

I agree retcons are lame but clearly Silksong isn't opposed at the idea of them

[foggy fractal]

yeah TC doesn't care lmao

[sinful nimbus]

TC canonizing 3Q for fun:

[craggy smelt]

it's the Knight, that's what they look like at the end of the Radiance fight

[terse warren]

Yeah I agree it feels more like researchers

[arctic mountain]

PK being the one who laid the 50 morbillion vessel eggs is honestly believable because wyrm

[gilded beacon]

Even they have a full picture of all the lore

[gilded beacon]

He probably needed to use a wheelchair after that, god heavens

[arctic mountain]

And then white lady just sprinkled her root magic on them idk

[sinful nimbus]

I don't think WL reproduces like Greyroot

[blissful harbor]

ig herrah being a weaver makes some sense if you like squint your eyes real hard

[terse warren]

I was more so thinking about this

Although PK wouldn't have really been tricked by them

SS Shamans actually thought the plan would've worked

No reason to assume the HK ones wouldn't have as well

[sinful nimbus]

Judging by her bindings dialogue

[spark valve]

sure yeah it's also just not a trick

[craggy smelt]

no, I like WL growing the eggs in her branches like fruit, that's what happens

[buoyant sedge]

oh so does that mean og hollow knight would still be alive, we never saw their shade?

[arctic mountain]

Pk's wheelchair would probably have saw blades built into it

[craggy smelt]

not sure! THK shade should be returned to the Void as well
maybe they're off doing their own thing
they don't have to obey the Void Heart

[foggy fractal]

thk shade just chilling in hk abyss dw

[gilded beacon]

Probably spikes too

[foggy fractal]

I saw them trust

[gilded beacon]

Root seasoning

Now I wonder how would the White Lady taste like

[arctic mountain]

Honestly shout out to PK for not grafting a saw blade to the hollow knights arm

[craggy smelt]

missed opportunity, actually

[arctic mountain]

That probably would've defeated the radiance for real

[craggy smelt]

WL: sweetheart, you can't solve all your problems with sawblades
PK: the hell I can't

[gilded beacon]

He did, how do you think he lost an arm

[drowsy mortar]

ETV HK is still alive so I think it’s meant to be ambiguous

[arctic mountain]

LMAO hollow knight tripped in the white palace on a saw blade and PK scolded them for running in the palace

[craggy smelt]

could be - I think DNM is more likely, but we can't rule out ETV

[peak harbor]

feels like hornet inherited his disposition for evil sawblade gizmos given the dozens of tools we get to use ingame

[gilded beacon]

Hornet's first word was: Shaw!!
Influenced by his father

[craggy smelt]

yeah, Hornet was said to have an 'affinity' for the sawblade
PK: that's my girl

[buoyant sedge]

It can also imply godhome ending to be canon cause we saw lord of shades/void, also that THK shade is missing

[craggy smelt]

mhmm

[terse warren]

I think it's just meant to be ambiguous as to which one it is

[buoyant wyvern]

The question is if it extends to interior decorating

[arctic mountain]

Bell daughters dialogue about hornets affinity for horrible murderous weapons is high key funny af

She is her father's spawn

[peak harbor]

LOL

[craggy smelt]

no option for Bellhome sawblades (yet...)

[stuck lichen]

yet

[arctic mountain]

This is canon

[spark valve]

I am astonished people have a hard time grasping this it’s very clearly the intent

[gilded beacon]

Of course it is canon I work a TC

[sinful nimbus]

I think its sealed siblings since it would leave Hornet easily capturable

[arctic mountain]

SS dlc will be act 4 and its about hornet installing sawblades everywhere

[dense raptor]

So the whole Hornet is/isn't Void thing is solved now right? The cocoon clearly has a shade in it, but it cant hold itself together once the cocoon breaks, meaning she's only part Void? (If theres something in act 3 that proves something about this dont tell me, not at act 3 yet)

[blissful harbor]

she’s not void

[stuck lichen]

ya shes unrelated to the void

[gilded beacon]

"Sinners Road? Nah...
Saw-ners Road~~"

[craggy smelt]

that's just a stain of regret or whatever

[cloud plover]

she’s locked in the black egg

[arctic mountain]

If you work at team cherry tell them to add more green prince yaoi

[stuck lichen]

more implies some already exists in the game

[dense raptor]

Is this something we downright get told ingame or are people just saying that

[sinful nimbus]

Precisely, she's entirely incapacitated

[gilded beacon]

We'll do it in the next game (it's a dating sim)

[cloud plover]

but how would they get inside the black egg

[sinful nimbus]

Seal breakers

[cloud plover]

she is the seal

[sinful nimbus]

Seal is on the black egg door

[peak harbor]

we learn this in hk, bugs leave stains of regret when they die

[craggy smelt]

not explicitly told
Jiji makes references to bugs leaving regrets behind as stains on the world in the first game though, and her rituals have some potential to summon the Void

[arctic mountain]

Its that how charms are made

[dense raptor]

Damn really? Didn't know that

[blissful harbor]

do they tho

[dense raptor]

Still, I feel like its very obviously supposed to be a shade

[craggy smelt]

there's some hints in Silksong Steel Soul mode that yes
rituals by bugs like her, at least

[sinful nimbus]

It doesn't look like a shade

[blissful harbor]

it’s supposed to be reminiscent yes

[worn flicker]

so my dear lore meisters, any connections between trobbio and grimm trouppe

[sinful nimbus]

Void particles don't behave like that

[blissful harbor]

oh interesting

[craggy smelt]

nah

[buoyant wyvern]

I’m not very far in but do we learn if Pharloom and Hallownest had any diplomatic relations or did they just find out about Hornet and grab her?

[dense raptor]

We never see a bugs "regrets" from death in HK other than a shade from the Knight or the siblings, and this is clearly a similar thing

[peak harbor]

they essentially just found out about her and yanked her yes

[dense raptor]

Surely the answer is just "she's both"

[peak harbor]

citadel is actively looking for all weaver-adjacent bugs

[blissful harbor]

it’s not a shade, she tells us she’s not void, she never leaks void particles
idk what to tell u

[sinful nimbus]

She states in the abyss that she does not have ANY void inside her

ACtually that could've been retconned

I understand now

[blissful harbor]

shut

[peak harbor]

also, i’d just like to note for size, it doesn’t make sense logically for hornet to be a child of void in part

[sinful nimbus]

Snail Shamans said they didn't have anything to do with the void and look where we are now. Why should we trust Hornet on this matter?

[dense raptor]

You mean the dialogue in HK after getting shade cloak? I dont think that meant she lacks void

[blissful harbor]

anyways pretty sure she dies in an ending, no shade thst i know of

[buoyant rampart]

The steel soul game over screen mentions hornet having a soul while in HK it says shade

[buoyant wyvern]

Do we at least get to learn the thoughts they have about Hallownest? You’d think that them discovering it, even if they don’t know the full story, would have some interesting insight

[cloud plover]

no the dialogue in silksong

[peak harbor]

she’s explicitly for herrah’s bargain, why would she have void inside her? unless you’re implying the pale king himself is void in part

[covert hollow]

And hornet does need saving from abyss so

[dense raptor]

Oh okay nevermind im wrong then

[sinful nimbus]

I mean she is definitely talking about void but that could've easily been retconned

[craggy smelt]

what connection Void may have with these 'stains of regret', if any, is unclear
they're just both black

[dense raptor]

I wish I could play more so I could finally get to the abyss and know all this stuff

[blissful harbor]

“That crucial part of you, that emptiness, I lack. Funny then, that such darkness gives me hope”
idk what else that would mean

[peak harbor]

|| i think it’s important to note as well that she needs protection to descend into the abyss via the everbloom - she’s likely purely weaver and wyrm ||

[gilded beacon]

What if the Mementos are actually Charms?

[terse warren]

How are you such a good ragebaiter

[craggy smelt]

then girl needs to get herself some charm notches

[covert hollow]

We dk whether or not divinity from pk was shared since vessels are on the fence creation wise and hornet is a biological child

[gilded beacon]

Yes, tools are good, but not enough

[blissful harbor]

vessels are biological children

they were just dumped in the void as eggs

[sinful nimbus]

Im not

[craggy smelt]

damn, she's good

[peak harbor]

hornet at the very least inherited a long/eternal life span, not much of a need to eat, and a unique silk

[covert hollow]

They are, but they are also empty whether it's divinity or soul

[arctic mountain]

They do look like charms, hornet doesnr wear them because she didn't buy any charm notches from salubra

[peak harbor]

i’d consider her a demigod tbh

[covert hollow]

But ghost's mana is called soul so wth

[buoyant wyvern]

In fairness we don’t exactly know what Void is aside from it opposing the light so it’s possible all of the bugs might have some void in them or that it exists so long as the light does

[covert hollow]

Yeh, hence kidnapping