sk-lore

[raven cove]

It wasn’t, it was more like an idea death. Like if she’s not remembered she doesn’t have a place to exist because she exists in the minds of bugs. Seer calls it “the only death that matters”

[spark valve]

… no?

[gentle aspen]

The wiki page doesn’t say anything about vessels having no powers

[clear zephyr]

i did not vessels are not considered higher beings cause they dont have powers

[gentle aspen]

You made this up

the wiki page does not say this

[spark valve]

They have powers that’s not why they aren’t considered higher beings

[fresh badger]

Try "slapped to death with the very substance that is the opposite of and consumes her essence on touch"

[terse warren]

Yeah if she can't exist anywhere then she is dead

[fresh badger]

Its like if you got slapped with death energy orbs whaddya gonna do? Not die??

[raven cove]

Which is why the distinction isn’t very important

But in the context of killing a god it kind of matters to be precise

[drowsy mortar]

Vessels are not considered HBs because they are not allowed to gestate as the offspring of 2 HBs, instead they are mutated by the void into something else

[raven cove]

You made that up

[next sable]

also, a prerequisite of higher beings is the ability to evolve bugs into something else, no?

[clear zephyr]

it legit says that higher beings are god like beings that have powers

[raven cove]

Even if they had been allowed to gestate nothing indicates they would be considered HBs

[drowsy mortar]

Are you calling every shade in the Abyss a HB what is happening rn

[raven cove]

The offspring of HBs aren’t automatically HBs themselves

[clear zephyr]

Higher beings are god-like creatures[1] in the world of Hallownest that exist above all others.[2] They have certain abilities and powers that regular bugs do not; although, these abilities are generally different for each higher being. In addition to this, some higher beings were deified; worshipped as gods by other bugs.

[raven cove]

They’re not HBs because they’re not HBs end of story

[blissful harbor]

the official definition of a HB is a being that exists above all others

[terse warren]

Is the void the opposite of Radiance though? Cause it seems to me like it's just an all consuming force

[fresh badger]

Yea 😭

[spark valve]

It’s not really the ‘opposite’ of her no

[drowsy mortar]

So uh, we have no example of direct offspring of HBs except for Vessels and Hornet

[cold bloom]

Void is like more a element

[drowsy mortar]

Would you like to back up that claim good sir?

[raven cove]

The burden of proof is on you

[fresh badger]

Void literally consumes/is the power opposed to light
Essence = light
Radiance bursts into essence
And godseekers call her the god of light

[raven cove]

You are the one making the claim

[next sable]

the vessel is a weird case to begin with because of the shade lord lmao

[raven cove]

I’m saying nothing suggests that is the case

[clear zephyr]

i just put the offical desc here they are higher being that have certain abilities and powers that regular bugs do not

[gentle aspen]

Okay
You said “the wiki said that the vessels aren’t higher beings because they have no powers”
This isn’t the case

[drowsy mortar]

Well then what are uncorrupted vessels sir if you claim they are not HBs?

[next sable]

so... maybe? then hornet binds gms, so is she a higher being? who knows!

[gentle aspen]

vessels have powers and the wiki never said this

don’t know why you keep asserting this

This isn’t why vessels aren’t higher beings

[blissful harbor]

thst is from the wiki, the wiki is not official lmao
the definition given by TC themselves is what i said

[fresh badger]

The offspring of a wyrm and a root

[gentle aspen]

They have focus they can manipulate soul and void if trained

[clear zephyr]

vessels dont start with powers the hollow knight we plays as ha to interact with the shamans to gain power its not something they have naturally

[raven cove]

I don’t know what they are because they don’t exist and we therefore cannot conclude anything about their nature

[spark valve]

Gods have magic powers that doesn’t make everything that has magic powers a god. Vessels have magic powers and are not gods

[raven cove]

Me when I make shit up

[gentle aspen]

yes they do

We start with the ability to focus

[drowsy mortar]

Right so they could be either then

But they're not because the void changes their biology

[cold bloom]

⚠️ NERD FIGHT ⚠️

[next sable]

higher beings also kind of have to be the source of some sort of life, no? pk with hallownest, rad with moths, unn with greenpath, lifeblood, gms with weavers, etc.

[gentle aspen]

are you a middle schooler

[fresh badger]

Man why do you assume HBs have greek god genetics

[gentle aspen]

no

[next sable]

or at least, that's the pattern

[drowsy mortar]

Especially true in this game

[raven cove]

So then you agree that the claim that Vessels are only not HBs because of Void altering them is baseless right

[sinful nimbus]

Nice comeback geek

[spark valve]

Have you checked what server you’re in

[drowsy mortar]

?

It has the same level of possibility as the alternative

[raven cove]

That is not reasoning

[drowsy mortar]

Neither is your claim so

[next sable]

hey, psa, we don't have enough info on what exactly a higher being is to draw conclusions. stop fighting over something we know nothing about

[raven cove]

Rather it is a hubristic assertion that reasoning is unnecessary

[spark valve]

I’m not sure the specifics of the wyrm root hybrid abilities are relevant to this channel anyway

[raven cove]

I am not the one making the claim

[spark valve]

They’re gods

[fresh badger]

Man if higher beings could breed other higher beings into being

Then the world should be absolutely filled with HBs

[drowsy mortar]

You are but pop off I guess

[blissful harbor]

we know they are gods, we can say for certain a vessel isn’t one

[drowsy mortar]

Not really because most don't directly breed

[spark valve]

Vessels are like marginally stronger than the normal bug and can focus. That’s not very godly

[fresh badger]

Source?

[drowsy mortar]

Most HB's just create things

[clear zephyr]

god like you dont have to be a god to be considered a higher being like the pale king and white lady

[next sable]

at which point the question is what is a god, which again we don't have enough info about other than what isn't

[drowsy mortar]

The game???

[fresh badger]

We only know like 4 HBs bruh

[spark valve]

They’re gods

[drowsy mortar]

Bro doesn't know kekw

[clear zephyr]

they legit are not the radience and shade lord are

[fresh badger]

Half of which are confirmed species

[spark valve]

All of them are gods

[raven cove]

I said we don’t know whether or not Vessels would mature into HBs had they veen allowed to gestate I’m not making a claim one way or the other you’re the one making shit up and going “uhm acksually it’s possible they would be HBs if not Void!”

[next sable]

more than 4. lifeblood, unn, pk, rad, white lady, gms, more i don't remember at this time

[drowsy mortar]

Rad did not breed the moths into existence my guy

[fresh badger]

True! My ass should get back to silking my songing fr!

[clear zephyr]

the white lady and pale king are not gods they are god like beings cause they made hollow nest

[drowsy mortar]

Neither did Unn breed to make the Mosskin

[fresh badger]

I meant half the hbs lmfao

[raven cove]

it isn’t that complicated. Vessels are not HBs because they lack the feats to be classified as such not for any other bullshit reason

[spark valve]

They’re absolutely gods

PK and WL are no less gods than radiance

[drowsy mortar]

Grimm breeds because of reproduction into reincarnation so he's a weird one

[raven cove]

PK would slam GMS in a fight

[spark valve]

Probably

[cold bloom]

The vessels/hornet are analogous to demigods in this universe pretty clearly

[spark valve]

But she’s a god too

[next sable]

at the very least, the nightmare heart is a confirmed higher being

[raven cove]

No he doesn’t reproduce the Heart just makes the vessel when it needs to

[lost lion]

No he would not lmao

[cold bloom]

You dont get the full god kit as a kid of a HB but you do get some perks

[next sable]

we... we don't even know what his powers are aside from giving bugs sentience...

[raven cove]

We do

Also sapience

[clear zephyr]

pk couldnt even fight a cold

[spark valve]

GMS as we see her doesn’t seem to be that good at fighting

[drowsy mortar]

Abyss creature also doesn't really breed it kinda gestates....?

[spark valve]

But being able to fight good is a lame qualifier for godhood so it doesn’t matter

[lost lion]

Pks ability seems to be more elevating other bugs

[sinful nimbus]

GMS took me 2 tries PK's children took me at least 20

Food for thought

[raven cove]

GMS lost to PK’s non HB daughter so I ask you do you think Hornet is at least relative to PV

[clear zephyr]

that it thats all he does and makes everlasting kingdoms that all we got confirmation on with wryms

[blissful harbor]

the two gods???

[drowsy mortar]

Like lifeblood kinda grows off it.....but is also tied to essence.....his lore is weird

[raven cove]

Because PV got its powers from PK who was likely much stronger himself

[lost lion]

Pk probably didnt train thk

[spark valve]

He also has crazy soul magic indicated via kingsoul and his offspring’s affinities for it

[sinful nimbus]

Hornet gets her powers from her mother who is stronger than PK

[next sable]

lifeblood in general is really weird

beneficial to a point, then completely parasitic

[lost lion]

True

[raven cove]

Yeah I suppose that’s why Herrah specifically wanted a demigod child

[clear zephyr]

its actually the pk gentics that make her so strong

[cold bloom]

important question have we ever figured out what lifeblood is or nah

[drowsy mortar]

Lifeblood in SS specifically confuses me

[clear zephyr]

unlike most weavers cause shes half wrym she can weave soul into her silk

[spark valve]

Remember her wyrm ancestry is what makes hornet’s silk similar to gms’s, and she’s only half wyrm

[drowsy mortar]

It is a weird parasitic substance like infection that makes you tankier

[next sable]

cordyceps but if it made you buff

[lost lion]

The “agression” of the lifeblood in ss is pretty much cause the alchemist just injected it into everything

[raven cove]

PK also skipped the middle man he manipulated soul directly and was likely far more proficient in its use than either of them

[next sable]

wait... could it actually be analagous to cordyceps

[raven cove]

GMS’ use of soul is not that impressive

[clear zephyr]

whats with silksong and injecting bugs with random crap

[spark valve]

The Chad kingsoul with infinite soul vs gms scrounging for every scrap and shred of weaver silk

[drowsy mortar]

What's with these bugs and godly injections

[next sable]

immortality, in a word

literally, just straight up, they wanted immortality

[clear zephyr]

i know that but you got them injecting life blood and silk whats next they gonna be injecting bugs with acid

[drowsy mortar]

"The Silk didn't make enough abominations bois, time to inject blue kool aid"

[cold bloom]

You leave alchemists alone and they start doin questionable shit

[next sable]

ah, don't forget the soul sanctum

[gentle aspen]

you’re giving my work a bad rap here

[cold bloom]

This also pertains in real life, alchemists were doing batshit things

Seems like a fun job

[next sable]

they really love their immortality in the hk-verse, huh

[raven cove]

PK also does other shit like splitting the veil I don’t see GMS doing that because if she could well essence is itself an infinite source of soul if you have the ability to transmute it

[drowsy mortar]

I mean if you think about it

[spark valve]

Weavers could split the veil probably

[lost lion]

Not necessarily immortality but eternity yep

[clear zephyr]

i thought he "split the veil" with void

[drowsy mortar]

They're bugs, bugs naturally don't live that long

[raven cove]

No

[drowsy mortar]

Immortality wouldn't be that out there a wish

[spark valve]

all that stuff about death being banished from the citadel immortality was certainly a part of it

[drowsy mortar]

Do they go about it in fucked up ways? Absolutely

[clear zephyr]

yet they still had giant buzzsaws cause they didnt wanna hire security

[next sable]

idk, it feels like they have human-ish lifespans. the huntress is one example, although we do never see children (although that might be because tc doesn't want to kill children despite the dark tone of the games)

[raven cove]

Silk making you immortal it kind of takes us back to HK where the Scholars attempted something similar

[lost lion]

Hmm, if all the weavers had silk hearts was gms just hoarding them all

[raven cove]

SM wanted to use soul to achieve immortality and SS confirms that to he possible if you go about it the right way

[drowsy mortar]

The Unravelled is quite literally the Silk version of Soul Tyrant ye

[spark valve]

That would make sense for her to be doing

[cold bloom]

I have a crackpot theory, do we know the exact alloy the metalwork in pharloom is mafe of

[clear zephyr]

look at pk and wl they have been said to be around since the star of hollownest and with the size of it we have to assume it ran for years

[spark valve]

Probably sweetsmelt

[next sable]

also, is it weird that i thought that GMS was an orb weaver (the actual spider) the first time i saw her?

[raven cove]

Soul use may also the the reason behind Hornet’s longevity and PK’s presumably indefinite lifespan along with them not needing sustenance

[lost lion]

They seem to be the source of silk for hornet so it would make sense for gms to be coveting them to feed to lace

[blissful harbor]

they’re functionally immortal, (ignore PK dying) they don’t really count

[next sable]

actually, gms doesn't care for lace at all lmao

[clear zephyr]

i was told in orginal hollow knight that was the whole thing about the weavers is they were based off the orb weaver spider

[spark valve]

If she gathered enough lace could just be safe forever

[lost lion]

This is bait right?

[spark valve]

This is the opposite of true what

[clear zephyr]

thats 100% bait

[next sable]

nope. she'd much rather have hornet over lace and lace is kind of just a substitute until that point

[spark valve]

Lace is like the only thing gms cares about

[lost lion]

Someone didnt make it to act 3

[clear zephyr]

||litterally kills herself to save hornet for her to save lace ||

[next sable]

well, sue me, i do try to 100% stuff before act 3 :P

[lost lion]

Impossible unfortunately

[next sable]

yeah, i know. i'm just finishing up the mask maker delivery and then moving on. i got everything else and bought out all of the shops

well, everything except for second sentinel, but yeah

[lost lion]

You should avoid spoilers then

[clear zephyr]

|| and in 2 seprate endings one involving lace and one not she gets sucked into the void on both but only the one where lace is involved does GMS freak out and try to stop it||

[next sable]

(also, hornet's lowkey kind of rude to second sentinel. she straight up gives it a crisis of existence lol)

[clear zephyr]

deserved

[lost lion]

Second sentinel is kinda a chad bro

[cold bloom]

Hollowknight 3: we put a frog in this one

[raven cove]

Second Sentinel is great

[next sable]

good news! there's already a frog

[clear zephyr]

frog transport system?

you hop in its mouth and it hops to your destination

[cold bloom]

FROG HIGHER BEING

all consuming lord

[clear zephyr]

i mean we do already have a mushroom higher being lmao

[lost lion]

The herald?

[cold bloom]

Tee hee

[clear zephyr]

nah we never got a name for him but its said in game there was 1 mushroom that gave the rest sentience just like pale king did to the bugs

your talking mr mushroom and it is believed hes been around for a while

but i dont think hes the one the gave the mushrooms conciousness

[stray scaffold]

I was wondering about whether there was a mushroom HB the other day actually lol

[lost lion]

A being who goes around watching civilizations fall for all time sounds like a HB to me tbh

[cold bloom]

Oh i came to the conclusion that he was the mushroom hb and he was just sorta more chill and whimiscal than the others

[clear zephyr]

thats only rumored we dont know the truth behind him

[lost lion]

Literally what hornet says about him

[clear zephyr]

its rumored hes been around a long time and seen other civilizations fall but it isnt confirmed out right

[lost lion]

“The herald is here, this lands doom is imminent”

[clear zephyr]

unless they changed his story in the new game

[stray scaffold]

as for other candidates there's that big mushroom corpse in fungal wastes

[raven cove]

His Tablet literally says this also did you read his dialogue in either game

[cold bloom]

Itd make sense if his deal was to wait around until a place fall apart. Thats sorta what fungi do irl.

[raven cove]

He talks about all the shit he’s seen he talks a ton about wyrms and he says he’s immortal

[next sable]

tbf... pharloom is mostly dead by now. most of the enemies you're fighting are just reanimated corpses or beasts

[stray scaffold]

there's this from the wiki ig

[lost lion]

Not corpses

[raven cove]

It is true that MM is not a Shrumal yes

He specifically separates himself from them

[next sable]

uh, yes corpses. the animation of the enemies getting up because of silk surrounding them in the citadel and an mosshome seems telling

[lost lion]

Speaks same language though

[spark valve]

He’s not entirely disconnected though spore shroom let’s you do the telepathy

[raven cove]

I mean he can probably access their shared mind sure

[blissful harbor]

doesn’t his tablet call the shurmals spawn of self
hes jdut their creator god

[spark valve]

I don’t think that’s what that means

[raven cove]

Spawn of self doesn’t mean they’re his spawn

[spark valve]

Spawn of self as in they spawn themself because they’re a shared identity

[clear zephyr]

this is what he says on your final encounter in the last game never said he did go to other civilizations and we can assume they rise and fall all the time considering hollownest has signs everywhere calling it the everlasting kingdom

[raven cove]

He also says their minds combined not our

[clear zephyr]

”And my if those stops can't be lovely things, wouldn't you say? Transcendent plateaus, distant sandy lands, vast ancient kingdoms. Yours was not the first, nor will it be the last, but it's a unique and special thing nonetheless.”

[raven cove]

They do rise and fall all the time he says that too yes

But he also indicates this is not the first time he’s done this

Like that is made very clear idk what to tell you

[clear zephyr]

hes a easter egg to another team cherry game jsut like the hollow knight came from another previous game

[high bane]

Hornet’s dialogue and calling him the “Herald” implies to me he might have a role similar to the Grim Troupe.

[clear zephyr]

he could be referencing the game he came from

[raven cove]

Not quite

Mister Mushroom signals the end of an age, the Troupe just feed on the flames of fallen kingdoms

[clear zephyr]

In general, we believe his “encounter” dialogue always refers to other games besides Hollow Knight. None of them seem to make sense in the context of HK, and there are two encounters which are pretty much confirmed to be referencing previous games that Team Cherry made. Our reasoning for that is below.

[raven cove]

One is a weird prescient herald the other is a scavenger

[raven cove]

This doesn’t matter

Him being a meta reference to other TC works doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a role in universe

[clear zephyr]

it does if its just meant to be a reference

and not literal

[raven cove]

Are you rage baiting

[clear zephyr]

he was only added to the game to fill a room the removed cornifer from

[naive cargo]

What

[raven cove]

ok so definitely bait

[clear zephyr]

no not bait look it up its facts

[blissful harbor]

it’s not, hes a mets reference yes but he also has an actual role

[lost lion]

He’s in the game, he’s canon.

[naive cargo]

Dawg wiki trivia is just wiki trivia

[clear zephyr]

Mister Mushroom was originally created to fill up the empty room where Cornifer used to be in the Fungal Wastes.[2]

[blissful harbor]

hes the sign of a new age
wait are you getting this from wiki

[naive cargo]

Oh my god

[raven cove]

[blissful harbor]

bro is quoting wiki like it’s the bible omfg

[spark valve]

Why they added him doesn’t change that he’s there what

[clear zephyr]

the wiki is more credible than half of you in this chat

[blissful harbor]

it’s a good source sure, not the way youre using it tho

[next sable]

it's just as important to know how much of the wiki actually matters though...

[raven cove]

Sure we’ll accept that but what you’re quoting doesn’t mean what you think it means

[next sable]

like, if you can't read it well, then it's still worthless in your hands

[raven cove]

Why MM was added is irrelevant

[next sable]

(actually, might be worse than worthless)

[brittle wren]

that quote is possibly TC being silly too. they said that specific corner was "empty and sad"

[naive cargo]

Also some of us are the wiki editors lmao

[blissful harbor]

anyways chat who wants to talk about how mask maker shows the original mask maker wasn’t (totally) batshit insane

[lost lion]

eh I don't know about that they're just both batshit insane

[broken garnet]

Anyone know the lore behind this little magic trick? I’ve had it happen twice now 😂

[spark valve]

The madness is at least not unique

[naive cargo]

Hallownest mask maker is a bit more insane

even with mask off hes still cryptic

[blissful harbor]

SS mask maker has more screws in

[naive cargo]

and pharloom is like "man wtf my vibe"

[raven cove]

why are ther even two of them

is mask maker a job title

[blissful harbor]

all kingdoms need one

they tell us that i’m pretty sure

[raven cove]

yeah but like

Why

[spark valve]

They say that but it’s not like they do anything

[blissful harbor]

because every village needs a crazy lady

[lost lion]

anyways i'm starting my steelsoul run, i'll come back if theres anything exclusive I find

[spark valve]

Window post it

[blissful harbor]

ehhh, i’m willing to accept the original mask makers dialogue now more, thst it’s hard to tell
we know weavers wear them, others could thst we don’t know

[naive cargo]

and ill keep reposting it!!!! im vindicated !!!!

[lost lion]

what?

oh

[spark valve]

His dialogue still makes sense only figuratively

[lost lion]

the bilibili thing?

[naive cargo]

Steel soul has a unique wish questlinew

and stynx is dead

[spark valve]

Steel city dlc in 5 years

[naive cargo]

still a bit sadden but I guess thats the curse of being the first enemy/rival shown at all

[spark valve]

There were worse cuts

[pearl loom]

Has anyone found where some NPCs go at end of game? I found Gilly but haven't seen Little Pilgrim for the longest time (was at pilgrim's rest in act 2)

[blissful harbor]

i refuse to believe the coral area was actually cut
it’s just super well hidden…right chat?!?

[pearl loom]

Pray for dlc

[raven cove]

…

[lost lion]

yes?

[gentle aspen]

Sorry senris

[naive cargo]

the internal code for the Sands of kurask is something something "Coral_area"

[pearl loom]

For reference I had already killed the rhinobug by the time they were there and they didn't die in bone bottom like I've heard from others

[raven cove]

How do I tell you this…

[pearl loom]

Did they just die from act 3 stuff?

[raven cove]

Little Pilgrim dies during the Bone Bottom invasion, you fight Skull Tyrant a second time

[pearl loom]

They can survive

[raven cove]

Wait what

[pearl loom]

I and others had them make it to pilgrim's rest

[blissful harbor]

???

[pearl loom]

The Little Pilgrim

[raven cove]

Ok well now I’m sad

[next sable]

Wait, Sherma can actually die?

[naive cargo]

pillby right

[pearl loom]

Yeah pillby

[lost lion]

sherma can die?

[pearl loom]

Sherma can't lol

[naive cargo]

damn TC really do add tiny details

[pearl loom]

At least I've never heard of it

[raven cove]

Why did you tell me that now I feel bad

It’s killing Nailsmith all over again

[gentle aspen]

wait really?

[pearl loom]

I don't even know what the triggers are for it cause I broke the rebuilt bridge and supposedly that's supposed to be up

[gentle aspen]

they weren’t there for me though

where’d they go

[pearl loom]

So there's a lot of different things that go into Pillby

[azure canyon]

what do we think of true ending guys

[raven cove]

It’s vague and cryptic like everything else in this game

[pearl loom]

I found them at pilgrim's rest in act 2, in act 3 though you know what happened to that place

[dim basin]

Lore question, if Hornet was taken from Hallownest and bugs that leave Hallownest loose their memory, how does she remember

[raven cove]

It sucks

[azure canyon]

shes built different

[pearl loom]

She's special

[naive cargo]

because Hornet isnt a common bug

[raven cove]

That only applies to bugs dependent on PK’s beacon

Which isn’t every bug

[azure canyon]

i love it <333

my precious boy is still alive

[raven cove]

I’m happy for you

[lost lion]

wonder if it even offers rosarie chains in shops in steelsoul

[high bane]

I imagine it's less that the Pale King specifically is needed and more that bugs just have to congregate around Higher Beings.

[raven cove]

We alredy knew it was alive though

[rain pebble]

bugs lose their memories because their memories were granted by the pale king. her memories come from her being part wyrm, rather than just a side effect of being near him

[azure canyon]

i mean kinda but this makes godmaster ending fully canon

[raven cove]

It was alive in all of the other endings too and will only eventually die in The Hollow Knight

Also the Godmaster ending is… very bad

That’s part of why I dislike the SS ending though it could technically also follow DNM which is a lot better

[spark valve]

The ss ending is pretty clearly meant to be ambiguous between the two relevant HK endings

[narrow cloud]

End game lore

|| I like how the true ending kinda confirms that p5 without the delicate flower is the true ending of hk, at least that's what's i comprehended ||

[solar agate]

Endings allowed to be discussed here?

[raven cove]

Those endings are pretty much identical as far as TK is concerned in any case

[naive cargo]

if you discussed endings youll face a famine for nine years

[raven cove]

Its circumstances are very similar I guess in EtV it goes back to do pantheons and shit that’s all

EtV is bad for other reasons

[lost lion]

fr we don't want a repetition of earlier

[raven cove]

Anyway whether or not it follows EtV is kind of a minor point

Act 3 is still terrible and SS lore on the whole is rather disappointing

The ending itself is actually sort of a nothingburger

[spark valve]

It’s just more focused on character stuff

[raven cove]

Which is why I say the ending is a nothingburger yes

Though the question is why did they bother to include it at all

mfw VH somehow has a range limit now

[high bane]

I'd argue the exact opposite. The ending is a victory, if a rather grim one, and Pharloom is now going to have a chance to rebuild without any of the old rulers who destroyed it.

[naive cargo]

Jinn kinda implies that VH isnt that unqiue

[dim inlet]

embrace the void is canon 😳

[solar agate]

Ending question:

|| Anyone tried to beat the last boss after binding Eva but without doing the trap for act 3 ? ||

[naive cargo]

since she sense the knight and her masters shared a similarity but it couldve been read as like self realization

[lost lion]

you can't?

can't get shaman crest without act 3 no?

[solar agate]

You don't need Shaman Crest

[covert tusk]

Maybe I’m being slow, but was the Citadel based around the GMS, or did she hijack whatever the Citadel had before? Or is it a mix??

[lost lion]

what?

[high bane]

You need all the Crests, don't you?

[solar agate]

4 crests, all unlocked with memory sockets

[lost lion]

thats just false

[foggy fractal]

pretty sure that's wrong

[solar agate]

5* crests my bad, shaman is not needed

[foggy fractal]

ok 5 I'm not sure

[lost lion]

source: I had every crest but shamans fully maxxed before act 3, and eva did not bind

I checked

[solar agate]

And she bound it after you got Shaman Crest?

[lost lion]

yes

didn't even need to locket it

[spark valve]

Crests and lockets are both factors in the unlock

[lost lion]

idk how many lockets you need to use then, but I hadn't used any on shamans by the time I bound eva

and I visited eva after fully maxxing the other crests and got nothing so

[next sable]

You also need silk hearts

All 3 of them

[solar agate]

Let's assume you have all

[lost lion]

no you don't

I only had 2 when I bound her

[next sable]

Really. I needed 3 to upgrade hunter the second time

[solar agate]

Yeah same

[next sable]

Unless the memory lockets do matter

[lost lion]

lemme go double check my save history to make sure

ah it doesn't list silk hearts

[void smelt]

Someone can explain to me the lore of this character

[next sable]

Did you beat whiteward pit before act 3

[lost lion]

nope

that was my 95th percent

lemme copy my save and go back and look

[next sable]

Huh, weird. It might be tied to memory lockets after all

Or a combination of all three

[dim basin]

Doesn't the knight lose their memories though?

[spark valve]

It’s at least a combination of crests and lockets I don’t know why silk hearts would matter

[void smelt]

Please

[spark valve]

I at one point had all crests and couldn’t bind her, then I went and used some lockets and could

[gentle aspen]

She’s a weaver who had their mask forcibly removed and pins affixed to her body

[next sable]

It’s possible that it’s dependent on all three

[gentle aspen]

So she’s unable to make silk

iirc

[next sable]

After all, growing in power is really vague and can mean either of those things

[void smelt]

She is being controlled ?

[gentle aspen]

she’s probably affected by the haunting but she does seem to be doing this of her own volition

[void smelt]

and why's that

[covert tusk]

Fanatic follower of the Grandmother Silk, mutilated due to the pins in her back to be, unable to produce Silk, potentially possessed? Potentially a traitor to the weavers? Idk I’m just throwing out the two takes I heard

[gentle aspen]

She’s a fanatic

[spark valve]

She’s specifically talking about crests though

Memory lockets are connected to crests silk hearts are not

[next sable]

Ah, whatever. It doesn’t change the fact that it could be dependent on all three things and you’re able to ignore one of those things

[drowsy mortar]

Btw anyone looking to collect all the relics, buy the bench for your Bellhome

[next sable]

We have no idea until later

I’m not about to split hairs over something that’s going to be verified in a couple of months

[covert tusk]

The GMS has an obsession with motherhood, feeling betrayed by her creations (the weavers) for leaving, and making and having multiple surrogate daughters (Lace, Phantom, and she attempted to bring Hornet to Pharloom too), so the prospect of a proper weaver Daughter was most likely her motivation

[drowsy mortar]

It helps keep track of your cylinders without needing to go to the archives

[void smelt]

sorry, whats GMS 😭

[covert tusk]

And or to have on hand someone who has the best knowledge on Silk and how to manage it, vs the Citadel cast, who have multiple journal entries saying they use it carelessly or improperly, vs people like the First Sinner, who use Silk in ways that can potentially even create deals

[lost lion]

looks like this was my setup when I bound eva

only 2 silk hearts

[covert tusk]

Grandmother Silk, goddess of the weaver race (tho not a weaver herself)

[lost lion]

Grand Mother*

[graceful heath]

im sorryw hat

[graceful heath]

what do you mean by bound eva

[naive cargo]

City of steel is probably a giant ass spear

[foggy fractal]

its spoilery

[next sable]

That’s what you get for coming into the lore channel lmao. Spoilers abound

[foggy fractal]

true

[naive cargo]

they took my idea!!!!

[graceful heath]

fack i forgot about eva...

na i already finished act 3 but eva was useless for me, i just realised i had to use the memory thingies

[covert tusk]

WAIT WHOS THIS HUH
WAIT DOES THIS MEAN SHARPE MAY STILL BE IN THE GAME?? (I HEARD SOMEWHERE HE WAS SCRAPPED)

[naive cargo]

hes def cut

but we got this questline

in steel soul

[foggy fractal]

you get salubra's blessing equivalent once you progress enough and talk to her and bind her

[naive cargo]

which mentions The Masters hunting down traitors so !!!

[covert tusk]

Jiji actually ate Sharpe when he was just a wee egg developing and hatching (Steel Soul Jiin gave it to her not realizing this was a real egg)

[naive cargo]

Andy please start steel soul I need to see the beginning of this quest line

[foggy fractal]

why me dawg just download no dmg/no clip/teleport anywhere mod and do it yourself

[naive cargo]

Idk the inputs

[edgy stone]

Ic they're not in the game hopefully they come with dlc

Hopefully not a full dlc dedicated to them I dont give that much of a fuck but a sorta hidden dreams update that just adds a lot

[foggy fractal]

to steel soul ? theres a bunch of youtube videos out there

that or y'know just finish the game

[lost lion]

konami code

[covert tusk]

Steel Song dlc as we explore an ancient Pharloom and its connections to the Masters

Via using the Needolin on Sharpe’s corpse

[edgy stone]

I really want a dream gate for silksong

The final location for the fleas is awful

[lost lion]

closest you get is stag warp

[foggy fractal]

plus I do not know how to record gameplay
I mean I can use obs but too lazy to download that

[cold axle]

beast song is extremely helpful, but i'd also like dreamgate for sure

[edgy stone]

Which is an awesome quality of life change but dude I cannot go the abduducts again

They should make a dlc where you make that area not completely insufferable

Silksong gentrification dlc

[raw mist]

Sort've spoilers for true ending? I'm disappointed we didn't get to learn ||what happened to The Hollow Knight after Embrace the Void||

[lost lion]

if we did it would canonize a specific ending, so they didn't go that route

[drowsy mortar]

This is definitely not the reason why

[naive cargo]

not until a future game content update where we

[lost lion]

this is exactly the reason why

[naive cargo]

get MECHA THE HOLLOW KNIGHT

[edgy stone]

Wait how do you get the alt ending in ss?

[foggy fractal]

🤑 steel hollow knight

[drowsy mortar]

The "all endings are canon" AMA statement was already debunked as outdated by the secret ending so probably not

[edgy stone]

I know act 3 and the curse one but I saw one where threads go down and attach to people

[drowsy mortar]

More likely it just made for a better resolution to leave their fate ambiguous

[lost lion]

i'm not talking about that one

[edgy stone]

How is that one achieved?

[raw mist]

Which secret ending

[lost lion]

thats base ending

[drowsy mortar]

Act 3 ending

[raw mist]

there's like 6 endings you gotta be specific

[raw mist]

Except it literally is ambiguous

[edgy stone]

https://youtu.be/wCco3Rjc6bM?si=w0NNhRagYwWwppZQ

the 2nd one

[drowsy mortar]

Yes but no

[edgy stone]

is it steel soul?

[drowsy mortar]

Because we can't have THK ending or SS ending there

[raw mist]

It shows both ||shade lord and dream no more knight||

[drowsy mortar]

Yes but again

[drowsy mortar]

^

[raven condor]

The pale king created the vessels, the vessels saved hornet from dying in the abyss, thus the pale king saved hornet. Talk about a good use of future sight

[edgy stone]

the base ending has hornet grow the 8 legs but ive never seen this one

[warm moss]

Okay I heard somewhere that there's multiple parts in the journal where hornet expresses her love for fluffy bugs

May I get some examples?

[drowsy mortar]

She just loves fluffy bois

[raw mist]

I think she loves fluffy girls actually

[warm moss]

Goated

[edgy stone]

im actually so confused by this

[raw mist]

||giant flea||

[raven condor]

Yes, moss grubby dudes. Big moss grubby dudes

[edgy stone]

is it if you set the trap for act 3 but dont activate it?

[drowsy mortar]

The fact that Hornet did in fact used to fuck being canon was a wild lore drop

[warm moss]

Yes, the noodley stature of hornet makes the bugs want her

[raven cove]

I’m a bit late but I don’t think that’s really what she’s implying

[raw mist]

What?

[warm moss]

This game is just so peak

[drowsy mortar]

Hornet drops she had relationships in the past but gave up on them due to outliving her partners

[warm moss]

||great Conchfly|| beastiary

[next sable]

Hornet is an elf confirmed

[raven cove]

She says TK is more “complete” and its mind has become more similar to her masters, that’s probably more to do with its newly acquired god status than it is anything to do with Void directly

She’s also not the only NPC to make this sort of comment

Bardoon says similar shit while also indicating VH is a “power before unseen”

[lost lion]

also do these exist already? I could use one to figure out if I can fix my broken save

[raven cove]

And ofc there’s Shade Beast

[foggy fractal]

https://www.nexusmods.com/games/hollowknightsilksong probably somewhere here

[raven cove]

I don’t think it really makes sense for VH not to be unique considering the incredibly specific circumstances of its formation and what it does

[raw mist]

I've heard ||the steel soul enemies got cut|| is that true?

[raven cove]

Yes sadly

[raw mist]

Laaaame

[raven cove]

Unless someone finds them it sure looks that way

But possibly DLC

[edgy stone]

Wasnt sharpe a backwr character though,m

[raven cove]

My bet is DLC

[raw mist]

Dataminers would have already

[warm moss]

Yes :( kinda sad the coral area became just a tower with a bad boss

[gloomy siren]

Guys how to get the ||old pogo||

[warm moss]

Okay imma sleep now, tmr is more time for skong

[spark valve]

there is a quest in steel soul featuring a steel character but afaik not the enemies, though maybe those will be in there too

[warm moss]

I personally use the wanderer's crest

[willow epoch]

hornet LOVES fluff

[raven cove]

There’s an exclusive quest in steel soul mode with a new npc and references to a city of steel

[edgy stone]

I do think the memory thing is going to open a lot of possible dlc

[gloomy siren]

What does it do

[spark valve]

city of steel reference isn't even exclusive to steel soul

[raw mist]

I really love the part of silksong where dataminers leaked every ending on day one and posted blatant spoilers in the thumbnails of their youtube videos

[warm moss]

Yes people answered my question like that earlier

[raven cove]

It isn’t no

[willow epoch]

hornet is like the fluffy thang CEO

hornet wouldve loved ralsei

[warm moss]

It makes your swings short but fast

[edgy stone]

I imagine the dlcs will take maybe a year or 2 to make

If theyre full new areas and shit

[gloomy siren]

Can u even 112% the game yet or no

[raven cove]

sharpe is an assassin and the masters sending him after Hornet would line up with what the steel npc says

[naive cargo]

the 12% came from content updates so no

[warm moss]

Only 100% also this is lore not help go to #sk-help

[edgy stone]

Sharpe missing is incredibly weird if the backer didnt make another character we see in silksong

[gloomy siren]

Ok

[edgy stone]

Did we ever get that backer town either?

[raven cove]

again dlc is a very real possibility

[edgy stone]

Yeah I see iy

[foggy fractal]

who are the current known backer characters ?
Karmelita and Khann right

[jovial condor]

Oh god, I just got a “to be continued” ending. I don’t think I remember enough of HK. Was the weird mushroom guy in the first game too?

[foggy fractal]

yes

[hexed stump]

do we know if this game is set before or after hollow knight?

[foggy fractal]

he was in the first game

[rain pebble]

After

[foggy fractal]

some endings and dialogue confirms it

[jovial condor]

I can’t imagine it being set before.

[high bane]

He was.

[edgy stone]

Are the credit things in silksong? Like hollow knight for backer characters

[raven cove]

I can envision the dlc starting out with sharpe being sent by the masters to kill hornet as indicated by the steel soul npc and continue with her going to the city of steel referenced in the base game

[hexed stump]

if it set after HK, that means that some of the HK endings aren't canon anymore right?

[naive cargo]

the credits only make a general thank you message for the backers

[edgy stone]

I hope she doesnt get kidnapped again

[jovial condor]

I went into options to turn on backer credits bc I didn’t know what it was and for some bosses it would say the backer name under the boss name.

[edgy stone]

Thatd be 3 times in silksong she gets kidnapped

[foggy fractal]

yeah
I think if you turn on credit backers you'll see the backer name along with the boss name
I didn't write it down though

[exotic trellis]

After

[edgy stone]

Ooay I forgot to. So I dont know which was one

[foggy fractal]

but for example
it would've been like

Shrine Gurdian
Seth
Seth Goldman

[jovial condor]

Not exactly a backer but Seth is based on a real kid. :(

[edgy stone]

We do have the 3 backer dungeons and the one town

Which I dont know if appeared in silksong

[hexed stump]

The connections to the first game are quite minimal right?

[naive cargo]

hornet has references to hallownest

in her journal and dialogue

[jovial condor]

Yeah there’s just a couple things I wish I remembered better from the first game.

[hexed stump]

journal as in the hunters journal right?

[jovial condor]

The journal is kinda cute. She talks about how she wants to pet the fuzzy beast bugs and whatnot.

[hexed stump]

Hmm, I didnt pay too much attention to it. I gotta recheck all the entries.

Man, I would have loved to see more connections from HK

[jovial condor]

There are some epic ones but they’re huge spoilers.

[hexed stump]

well I have finished the game

[lost lion]

I think theres a good amount, any more and it gets a bit overkill

[jovial condor]

O ok

[hexed stump]

I see, must have gone over my head then

[jovial condor]

The knight showed up at the end for me. Is that the normal ending?

[hexed stump]

wooooooooah

[jovial condor]

I’m guessing no…

[lost lion]

ah wait

[edgy stone]

Other than the steel assasins I do really wonder what can be dlc

[lost lion]

you say you've finished the game

[edgy stone]

If its not completely new content like the geimm troupe

[keen yew]

you finished act 2 only?

[hexed stump]

ya act 2 only

[lost lion]

you mean act 2?

you're not done then

[jovial condor]

Oh yeah, that’s just a fake out ending

[lost lion]

begone, or you will end up spoiled

[naive cargo]

I would like for new content

[hexed stump]

thanks man

I thought act 3 was just like extra content

[jovial condor]

My ending also had ||the weird mushroom guy shoot out and it said “to be continued”||.

[lost lion]

its like 15% of the completion or thereabouts, and the only way to get TE

[silver mango]

Hey lads on scale of 0 to 10 how much lore do we receive on the original hollow knight?
0 being nothing at all
10 being all the mysteries are solved

[foggy fractal]

hk did that too if you followed his "questline" in hk

[jovial condor]

Nope, it’s all the rest of the story.

[foggy fractal]

just basically finding him around the map

[hexed stump]

thanks guys, I'll see you guys after a week I guess lol

[jovial condor]

Yeah I think I missed him completely in HK

[terse warren]

Didn't it say "the end?"

[spark valve]

I would be surprised if there wasn’t steel stuff

[terse warren]

Or am I just dead wrong

[foggy fractal]

in hollow knight ?

[hexed stump]

how come they are calling it steel soul instead of steel silk btw?

[spark valve]

No it said to be continued

[terse warren]

Yeah

[spark valve]

Because that’s what it’s called

[hexed stump]

cant argue against that xD

[foggy fractal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7B7PKYYNbLY&ab_channel=Thunder777 says to be continued

[naive cargo]

I see steel stuff to be added under the table while TC presents new stuff in a DLC

as a surprise like how they did with the ancient civ stuff in godmaster

[spark valve]

I mean maybe but it would make plenty of sense to just be the focus

[terse warren]

The what in God master?

[spark valve]

Godmaster barely added anything about ac I would hope it’s not like that

[naive cargo]

void idols

[spark valve]

Void idols. Tells basically nothing new but they’re there

[terse warren]

Oh

[foggy fractal]

hey guys

[naive cargo]

I like the flavor text so thats my bare minimum

[foggy fractal]

hey you three
favourite theme from the ost go

[terse warren]

Going from having a dedicated area and a full enemy group to flavor text would be crazy

[terse warren]

Silksong or HK

[raven cove]

Bilewater

[spark valve]

Idk off the top of my head

[terse warren]

I can't remember SS soundtrack for anything so let's just go with City of Tears

[edgy stone]

cogwork core

[foggy fractal]

silksong

[edgy stone]

the theme is beutiful

[raven cove]

OH CogCore is a bop

[terse warren]

Then yopi is goddam right

[foggy fractal]

my favourites are
cogwork dancers, karmelita's, lost' laces and gms's

[spark valve]

lost lace's is good

[terse warren]

Those are all very good

[lost lion]

karmelita's with the singing is pretty good

[terse warren]

But cogwork core really does just hit

[raven cove]

any bilewater ost fans in chat

[terse warren]

It's definitely up there

[next sable]

Incisive battle

[spark valve]

people keep glazing the bilewater ost I didn't even notice it

[edgy stone]

Was silksong music done orchestrally?

[terse warren]

Sadly it gets drowned in the constant hit sound effects

[edgy stone]

I loved karmillitas as well

Her singing in the background

[raven cove]

Yes it’s pretty quiet and the area sucks so you can’t hear it very well

Cogcore is loud which is nice

[foggy fractal]

yeah its like a B+ for me
still good but not the tippy top imo

[naive cargo]

honestly the Slab is neat

[foggy fractal]

actually A

[naive cargo]

I love prison music

[edgy stone]

I liked cogwork dancerd as well

[naive cargo]

unless its eerie thats scary

[edgy stone]

Yeah was it done digitally or was it like performed

[foggy fractal]

Cut Through (theme for Groal and Lugoli) is also really good

[gloomy siren]

||is the godmaster / embrace the void the cannon ending of hk according to silksong's true ending?||

[iron whale]

does ||true ending imply that non delicate flower godhome ending is canon?|| heavy ending spoilers

[steady prawn]

|| is this a wyrm corpse? ||

[edgy stone]

Phantoms is also really good

[iron whale]

that was my thought

[lost lion]

its ambiguous as to whether its DNM or EtV

[edgy stone]

Its just confirmed that the radiance is dead now at least

[iron whale]

but ||in EtV the knight turns into shade lord||

[steady prawn]

which one had hornet uncoscious at the end?

[edgy stone]

Which is a net positive

[steady prawn]

since that ending would explain how she was captured

[iron whale]

^

[next sable]

Neither

[gloomy siren]

If we ever get a 3rd hk game who will we play as

[steady prawn]

no third game

[iron whale]

||"to be continued" for the herald ending btw||

;)

[gloomy siren]

||but it says to be continued in the ending of ss||

[steady prawn]

i dont think that means new games

[iron whale]

thats absolutely what it means

||no dlc would make the herald show up again||

[raven cove]

Almost certainly not

[steady prawn]

not hk gamesi mean

[steady prawn]

what is it then?

[raven cove]

It’s just a large bug skeleton, they’re everywhere

[terse warren]

What about Nyleth

[steady prawn]

and where is the || wyrms of pharloom || then

they have to be somewhere

[spark valve]

isma at home

[raven cove]

There aren’t any

[terse warren]

it's a good OST

And one of em is actually a higher being

[steady prawn]

then how bug speak

[raven cove]

Not every kingdom is a wyrm kingdom

[spark valve]

nyleth probably isn't a higher being, at least not any more than isma is

[slate moon]

when defeating grandmother silk while being afflicted by the roots, you get a special ending right? or am i ddoing this for no reason

[terse warren]

Inb4 isma is also from Pharloom and a reincarnation of Nyleth

[raven cove]

Sapience can arise naturally

A wyrm’s beacon isn’t the only way

[terse warren]

I don't think isma can make a whole forest like Nyleth

[spark valve]

we literally see her starting to do that

[lost lion]

seeing this gave me flashbacks for a moment

[raven cove]

I mean she kind of does start doing that

Isma’s grove is a part of her

[steady prawn]

also doesnt || pale = wyrm ||

[terse warren]

I thought that was the extent of it didn't know it just started

[next sable]

Yes

[raven cove]

No

[terse warren]

No

[next sable]

Pale lady isn’t a wyrm. Whether she’s a tree is… an interesting debate

[terse warren]

To be honest considering how similar they look it isn't impossible that they are both part of the same species I'd suppose?

[foggy fractal]

Nyleth was also really good
Not one of my favourites

[spark valve]

that seems to be the case

[terse warren]

She's a root

[raven cove]

She’s not a tree and root isn’t a species

[terse warren]

It could've been better but it's not really battle enough for such an important boss

If it had a little bit more kick to it, would've been peak

[next sable]

You’d hate Ender Lilies boss themes lmao

[terse warren]

Why root not species?

[steady prawn]

i always assumed the pale lady and pale kign both came from 1 wyrm that produced 2 spawn

[terse warren]

It's just that Nyleth specifically felt like it was building up to be a bit bigger fighting theme and then it just didn't

[raven cove]

Because it’s only ever used as a title for WL and nothing suggests it is a species

[vernal drift]

Did steel assassin sharpe get cut from the game

[spark valve]

apparently

[terse warren]

??? Do you not know of Greyroot???

[raven cove]

Greyroot has nothing to do with WL

They don’t even look similar

[terse warren]

They kinda do

[raven cove]

No not really

[terse warren]

Same eyes

[steady prawn]

he could be steel soul exclusive

[raven cove]

The eyes are different actually

And it’s a surface level similarity at best

Plant like creatures are not uncommon in SS or HK for that matter

No real reason to assume they’re related

[terse warren]

Do you expect Greyroot to start her dialogue with "hey I am a root and related to the White Lady from the kingdom of the White Wyrm"

[raven cove]

But there is absolutely nothing linking them together

It’s not like Nyleth and Isma who not only look the same but also do the same shit

[spark valve]

the similarity between greyroot and wl is interesting but there are also a lot of differences, it's possible there could be some distant relation but I think it's a stretch to call them the same species

[raven cove]

It’s a surface level similarity at best

[drowsy mortar]

Can I just point out how fucked it is that the citadel preaches that bearing weapons in a dangerous wildnerness is a sin?

[jagged prairie]

do we know if anything got cut from the game

[spark valve]

I mean it's a surface level similarity in that it's an observation about the appearance but the eyes share a distinctive similarity in a way that's probably deliberate

[spark valve]

coral area, sharpe, barnacle area

silk soul

[jagged prairie]

unfortunate

[iron whale]

guys are we sure that the ||knight at the true ending is even the knight from HK? the horns look different, looks more like the young version of the Hollow Knight|| major ending spoilers

[raven cove]

I’m not totally convinced by that

[spark valve]

it's the knight from hk

[urban stirrup]

It’s very clearly implied to be the knight

[iron whale]

and you are certain of that why

[urban stirrup]

If it wasn’t, that scene would mean pretty much nothing

[iron whale]

yeah true ig

[spark valve]

looking at it?

[raven cove]

TK looks like that in DNM

[spark valve]

that's what it looks like in the ending

[iron whale]

oh ok ok

[raven cove]

Also THK can’t do that

[terse warren]

I mean between the visual similarity, both being called root, the wild overgrowing outside of the house

Feels good enough to me

[drowsy mortar]

Wait what

Uhhhhhhh I have the Caretaker dialogue.....?

[terse warren]

I really don't see why exactly they wouldn't be at least somewhat related

[raven cove]

Greyroot is a name and root in the context of WL being called that is a title

[lost lion]

damn. I fucking hate trying to work mods with nexus

[raven cove]

The plant shit outside the house doesn’t mean much

Again there are a lot of plant like entities in this universe

[drowsy mortar]

Okay nevermind

[raven cove]

And WL does a lot more than that

[next sable]

I do want to mention that no one actually knows Greyroot’s name. It seems to me that Hornet just made up the name for her

[terse warren]

Except that it's exactly like her/what her child does in the Twisted Child ending

[raven cove]

Greyroot doesn’t really do most of the same shit

[terse warren]

Wrong reply

[raven cove]

What were you intending to reply to

[lost lion]

lmao

I do that all the time

[terse warren]

Not sure

Maybe the "doing the same shit" thing

Or the plant outside the house

Yeah was definitely plant outside the house because it's clear that it's part of Greyroot herself

[raven cove]

I mean the plants outside the house are a bit of a nothingburger

[faint hollow]

Everyone's all saying Lacenet and stuff (which I don't really ship) but HEAR ME OUT-

||Second Sentinel and Hornet- XDD||

[raven cove]

Isma and Nyleth also grow plants that are a part of them

[cinder storm]

||Hmm... I could see it.||

[raven cove]

There are a lot of plant like beings in this world

[high bane]

||Hornetinel||, maybe?

[raven cove]

WL doesn’t just grow plants and to suggest they’re related I think you’d need something a bit more concrete

[cinder storm]

||Sentnet.||

[terse warren]

Imo them being the only thins getting called root clearly gives it some relevance

[raven cove]

But there is a difference

[terse warren]

Well there is also a difference between Isma and Nyleth

[raven cove]

Greyroot is a name, root is used as a title for WL, I’m not sure that’s conclusive either

It’s like blackwyrm not being a wyrm

Names are iffy

[faint hollow]

Also like ||if they were well maintained (which I hc that Ballow could probably do given enough time and learning) they could form long lasting companionship with Hornet-||

[terse warren]

Still i highly doubt TC would give someone a name with such an important word if they weren't related

[terse warren]

Blackwyrm isn't a Wyrm??

[raven cove]

They are far more similar than Greyroot and WL are

[raven cove]

No probably not

[terse warren]

What says so

[raven cove]

It makes very little sense for it to be a Wyrm it’s also a throwaway line but the long and short of it is if it was a Wyrm it would have to not have been in Hallownest and the Great Knights also wouldn’t be fighting it

I can go into more detail if you want

[terse warren]

Honestly yeah

Go for it

[naive cargo]

I dont think its crazy to say but I feel like theres more of a relation between Root and greyroot than what Blackwyrm and pale wyrm was

[spark valve]

there is

[raven cove]

Sure I agree but I was specifically referring to the point about them sharing a name

[naive cargo]

yeah I guess

[raven cove]

We also don’t see blackwyrm it’s a throwaway line

[terse warren]

I mean is it not impossible that they said Blackwyrm to just mean the Kingdom of Black Wyrm just like Hallownest is referring to as Kingdom of White Wyrm

[iron whale]

Second Sentinel is hot tho

[spark valve]

which also doesn't really make a lot of sense

[terse warren]

Yeah that's also kinda a thing

These two cases are almost a full decade apart

[terse warren]

I don't really know much about blackwyrm so I can't really argue for it lol

[iron whale]

What exactly is blackwyrm? Did I miss something?

[terse warren]

HK stuff

[terse warren]

One of them was made when the universe was just getting shapen up

Another was made after almost a full decade of lore crafting for said world

I really don't think that such a similarity has as little weight today as it did in the past

[raven cove]

So Wyrms are very important creatures and leave a significant mark on the world, not only is there not a massive wyrm corpse in the area there’s also no trace of another one and neither Bardoon (the local Wyrm enthusiast) nor Godseeker (the local god enthusiast) mention its existence with the latter being important as they would have sensed its beacon had it been present

The Great Knights also can’t really fight a Wyrm there are some other issues but that’s basically it

[spark valve]

frankly the eyes are like the only similarity with greyroot that are remotely interesting

that is actually almost unique

even if they aren't quite the same

[terse warren]

I just think it's weird to brush aside how those are the only two characters that have ever had any relation to the word Root

[raven cove]

I can grant that they may be similar sorts of beings

But I don’t believe they’re necessarily related in any meaningful way

They’re both weird plant people

[spark valve]

which in and of itself is a sort of connection

[terse warren]

I don't think they're like cousins but I do feel like they may be the same "species"

[raven cove]

I mean sure

[raven cove]

I’d hesitate to classify them as such when we a) don’t know that root is a species b) don’t know anything about roots as a species

“species” in HK are already pretty loose as is

[terse warren]

Exactly why I think it could fit though

[spark valve]

wl is also a god greyroot doesn't really strike that way and it would be a bit weird for hornet not to mention anything if they were literally the same type of being

[raven cove]

But if you mean species in the sense they’re both weird plant people I can accept it

[terse warren]

I think it's a bit more than that

They're just a bit too similar

[raven cove]

Aside from the eyes and relation to plants what do you find is similar about them?

[spark valve]

I wouldn't really call them that similar

[terse warren]

well the root thing and speech I feel partly, and how they seem to both be overgrown

[spark valve]

they don't really talk the same way

[raven cove]

Well, I can soooooorta see it

[terse warren]

To me it just looks like those things on the side of the head are drooping versions of what WL has going towards from her head

[spark valve]

oh they're way too small for that

and they don't branch

[raven cove]

Greyroot is obviously much smaller but visually I can see why people might see her as a homeless version of WL

[terse warren]

I mean Greyroot or at least her Bud clearly have something going on

[spark valve]

sure

[raven cove]

But yes it is also weird for Hornet not to mention it

[spark valve]

especially since 3q is canonized

[orchid inlet]

Man I can’t wait for mossbags 12 hour lore bomb so I can finally make sense of what’s happened

[terse warren]

I'd find it really weird if a random ass plant creature was able to engulf two extremely powerful beings just like that

Especially a baby one

[spark valve]

sure

but it's not like that's something wl is shown to be able to do or whatever

[raven cove]

I think we may be underestimating the part Hornet played in that

[orchid inlet]

Do we have any clue as to what creature the bell beast is?

[spark valve]

also very true

[terse warren]

I'm just saying they're both pretty powerful in some way

[terse warren]

Seemingly related to the worms of Wormways

[raven cove]

WL’s a lot more powerful the bud merges with a very powerful being and engulfs another powerful being upon its defeat by the former

[orchid inlet]

Oh

[raven cove]

WL’s like clearly a deity Greyroot doesn’t quite strike that way I feel

[edgy stone]

Eyes are closest thing apart from beeing roots

[raven cove]

But even if we are to accept they both are WL still doesn’t do shit like this

[spark valve]

greyroot is more of a witch you might say

[orchid inlet]

Greyroot seems more like the pope of a deity long gone

[terse warren]

Greyroot might be a lesser version of WL mayhaps

With Grey being a dirtier, muddier version of White

[edgy stone]

Is greyroot parasitic or is she connected to nyleth?

[terse warren]

Unsure, although I think she might be parasitic due to the nature of her bud

And also the fact that said bud is nowhere close to Nyleth's territory

[edgy stone]

Id there lole any nyleth lore

She just kinda appeared I feel like

[stone stone]

Steel soul route quest spoilers ||Okay so I've been speedrunning steel soul attempts and I've found that there's this npc called "Steel Seer Zi" in a secret area in blasted steps. They give you a quest to find their vassal named Sula. You basically go to three annoying ass places in Pharloom to find out that they're in an area close to the bone bottom chapel attempting some ritual so that they can escape their servitude to the steel masters (i think?). Here you find them doing the weird ritual, which ends up calling void into the corpses of some bugs. This is a boss fight called "Summoned Saviour". When you beat it, Hornet reprimands Sula and eventually you let them go. When you tell Zi, Hornet's like "I destroyed ur shit g" and Zi's basically says "oh it's okay, we would have had to hunt down the void creature anyways, it's a cursed substance" or something and it ends there. You do get a reward which is essentially a replenishing shell shard consumable. So far that's all that there is, but I've yet to get to act 3 so there could be more.||

[spark valve]

this is all known but cool

[stone stone]

REALLY??

people are fast asf

[edgy stone]

Okay thats awesome though

Unique boss is cool

[stone stone]

this is the boss btw

do we know anything else?

[spark valve]

not afaik

there's a reference to a city of steel in the game that's the only thing I can think of that could be connected

[terse warren]

Hard disagree

I really dislike steel soul exclusive content

[stone stone]

i was excited to see whats in act 3

[naive cargo]

Tbf it was found and recorded today

[stone stone]

i agree ts is a pain in the ass

[raven cove]

Same here

Infinite shell shards is funny but why steel soul exclusive 😔

Would have been nice qol

[stone stone]

lowkey lame reward

[foggy fractal]

mini craw home > midshard

[terse warren]

Because it has to replace the silly purse that lets you keep some rosaries when you die

[spark valve]

Steel soul exclusive boss is just mean

[stone stone]

i barely need it since i dont die

[covert tusk]

A STEEL SOUL EXCLUSIVE BOSS IS NASTY LMAO

[foggy fractal]

it was a lame ass boss anyways

[raven cove]

Yeah it doesn’t look like a particularly great fight but it being exclusive is still mean

[distant briar]

no practice … seems like most certain doom if the boss was any good

[stone stone]

yeah really anticlimactic

i mean it looked cool

[spark valve]

in any case the steel soul achievement icon is still one of sharpe's pals so you never know

[terse warren]

Void Mass enemy and this boss are just Daniel and cooler Daniel

[stone stone]

i was so hoping itd be sharpe hehe

[distant briar]

by the way is steelsoul what is that weird extra area in bellhart?

[stone stone]

but maybe hes later??? (copium)

[terse warren]

If the whole coral forest and steel assassins are steel soul exclusive I might just give up lol

[raven cove]

atp I’m convinced he’s dlc

[hallow shore]

I like how one area randomly has straight up ghosts and is an infinitely looping non-euclydian nightmare maze for some reason and as far as I'm aware we get NO explanation for either.

Like seriously what the hell

[raven cove]

Coral forest is just cut I think

[distant briar]

That would go crazy tbh

[stone stone]

which area?

[raven cove]

It would suck also having that area be steel soul exclusive doesn’t make a lot of sense if you ask ke

[stone stone]

oh... i havent seen it yet

[covert tusk]

I feel like those are, well Phantoms of Phantom
The head shape is insane and their hunters journal description even describes them as silk of another I believe

[stone stone]

ill check it now

[terse warren]

Coral Forest is where the assassins were though, so it might be a Verdania situation?

[distant briar]

like team cherry obviously likes rewarding their more skilles players so who knows

[gusty sandal]

are the courier's missions unlimited?

[sinful nimbus]

Sorry guys we had to cut the coral forest to make actually good areas like Bilewater

[distant briar]

thank god all those colors would have ruined my day

[gusty sandal]

thank you also sorry wrong channel

[raven cove]

I’m pretty sure Sands of Karak replaced Coral Forest though

[edgy stone]

Do you have a screenshot of the new steel soul npcs?

[terse warren]

Coral Forest dried into Sands of Karak because it took too long for Silkdong to develop

[sinful nimbus]

Yeah heaven forbid TC ever makes an actually pretty area

[terse warren]

Exactly why it could be Verdania, a dream area in a way

[edgy stone]

I would love like an act 4 dlc expansion of sorts

[stone stone]

it might be something for act 3? i cant seem to see anything there yet

[sinful nimbus]

They could've placed it here smh

[edgy stone]

Where its more revolved around rebuilding and helping the areas

[raven cove]

We already see that in the gauntlet and crust king khann fight though

[hallow shore]

Actually wait I just now realized that stuff us probably being summoned by Phantom yo keep people out of the Citadels back entrance

[naive cargo]

[vapid pendant]

Honestly the right side needs something more because it looks empty

[raven cove]

Making it a steel soul exclusive are strikes me as really odd

[terse warren]

This should be the actual full map of the game ngl

[covert tusk]

Rebuilding when suddenly the masters or at least a subsection of them try to hunt Pharloom down due to void exposure but the threat’s already gone

[terse warren]

I think it's actually perfectly fine as is

[spark valve]

there are two more areas

[hallow shore]

Put Gogmazios in ||The Abyss||

[edgy stone]

Could be, I liked the true ending but it felt kinda anticlimatic in a way

Something after it would always be cool but unprobable

[vapid pendant]

Nevermind they dont have bilewater and the dream area there thats why it looked empty for me

[hallow shore]

To be fair HK1 endings were kinda like that too

[raven cove]

Also ducts

[distant briar]

hmmm… That map I had there was from some website datamined from the game I think so maybe act 3? I have no idea you gotta find that out vecause Im not making act 3 steelsoul any time soon

[edgy stone]

Verdania took hella long to be put on a map dude

[stone stone]

ill see how far i can go, hopefully i dont die lol

[sinful nimbus]

Dream No More wasn't

[covert tusk]

Did anyone even find like, Sharpe sprites in the data mining cuz if it’s a no I feel like that’s a pretty solid answer as to Sharpe’s fate

[sinful nimbus]

THK and SS endings were deliberately anticlimatic but I don't think that should be the case for true endings

[distant briar]

I know right… Bellhart fricking sucks in act 3 and everywhere else aswell

[vapid pendant]

Can you check if in steel soul that one high halls room can finally be accessed?

[sinful nimbus]

TC removed sharpe to shut people up about the "is sharpe void" debates 😔

[distant briar]

I have no idea sadly

[stone stone]

which spot? i can check

[distant briar]

wait which one

[distant briar]

you could go everywhere there

[terse warren]

doesn't want void discussion
adds abyss

Is are Team Cherry have stupid?

[covert tusk]

Dude it’s genuinely crazy how those fuckass snail shamans unleashed a far worse plague than either the Infection or the Haunting thread on Pharloom and then pussy out as soon as it happens

[sinful nimbus]

Yes

[spark valve]

they literally give their lives to fix it

[covert tusk]

Wait they did?

[terse warren]

Yes

[covert tusk]

I haven’t finished act 3 yet

[vapid pendant]

Its this

[covert tusk]

Mb I didn’t know they were built like that

[terse warren]

[distant briar]

They seriously got my ass … Now I have to replay the game without trggering act 3 to get a good atmosphere in the towns

[stone stone]

ok, ill take a look!

[raven cove]

Dream No More was great. It neatly wrapped up the narrative it neatly wrapped up all of the characters’ stories and it neatly wrapped up the themes of the game. The presentation is also amazing with the PK leitmotif fading into the sealed vessel melody which plays in its entitety for the only time in the game then fades out god I love it

EtV and SS have none of that and all of SS’s plot points are rehashed from HK anyway

[vapid pendant]

Thanks because that room on the right is driving me crazy

[raven cove]

I can forgive SS for trying to be more character driven but c’mon

[terse warren]

They're not all the same themes tbf I think

[foggy fractal]

yes TC is are styupids.

[vapid pendant]

The entire sharpe situation is just weird.
Wasnt he a backer boss?

[terse warren]

Postponed for dlc I suppose

[distant briar]

think so aswell

[covert tusk]

He’s been pushed back to Hollow Knight 3: Sherma Farming Simulator

[raven condor]

I thought Silksong was a longer game?

[near skiff]

What is sharpe

[naive cargo]

tbf 7 years of dev and hes one of the first enemies developed

[terse warren]

Hollow Knight got 4 DLCs and Pantheons

[spark valve]

godhome artifically inflates hk's time for the full completion

[naive cargo]

It wouldnt surprise me they kept adding more lore to that guy

[distant briar]

well that site is smoking crack play it yourself