sk-lore

[naive cargo]

IM NOT INSANE

[blissful canyon]

I'm watching a walkthrough lmao, I knew the pain of navigating through everything in HK

[jolly rock]

The silk itself extends life, that's why the Choirbugs were exploiting the lulled GMS and did many experiments in Whiteward. Weavers are created by GMS by feeding it a bunch of silk

[lost lion]

why she kinda? gms lookin

[naive cargo]

Idk

[tropic current]

She looks like the enemies in the Vaults

[frozen hornet]

could it be just the first generation of weavers, then they simply had weaver childrens?

[tropic current]

But grey instead of brass

And huge lol

[clear zephyr]

Dude tagging me to talk crab about a convof rom hours ago is insane sorry i have a life and job and cant spend every second in here arguing with people like get on in your life if your gonna tag me to antagonise get a damn life

[orchid smelt]

Whar?

[indigo vapor]

can we all agree that the cogwork dancers is the coolest boss in the game

[orchid smelt]

Ye, they're pretty neat

[peak harbor]

huh?

[lost lion]

the weavers didn't really have children per se, as they are kinda artificially enchanced bugs

[peak harbor]

definitely up there alongside my favs

[clear zephyr]

I just got a notification from someone tagging ke and going crazy you dropped off the face of the earht after claiming your right like move on with your life

[jolly rock]

Weavers can have children, but they'd be half weavers

[orchid smelt]

If that's the case, then what are the ones in deepnest in HK?

[willow epoch]

what the hell is eva?

[frozen hornet]

so the weavers of hallownest are directly from pharloom?
damn they old

[jolly rock]

All weavers are female so they cant have full weaver children

[jolly rock]

Digitized weaver

[peak harbor]

presumably a silk construct created by gms

[peak harbor]

oh wait, really? what dialogue did you extrapolate this from?

[indigo vapor]

cant they like go to a lab and do some shi, like its 2025

[lost lion]

from what I gathered from the "First Generation" dialogue is that the weavers probably, in similar fashion to gms, created other weavers, though weaker

[jolly rock]

we never see a male weaver once, in the Red Memory when all the weavers are huddled around Hornet they're all females

[orchid smelt]

Ah, so like heritage

[peak harbor]

ah, i see, thank you

[lost lion]

probably what the numbers in the slab mean, like First of the Twelth liikely means first of the 12th Gen, etc. etc.

[orchid smelt]

It's just like the Gerudo or whatever Ganondorf is

[tropic current]

There's also talk of "Weaver, eigth in part" etc.

[lost lion]

Thats my guess anyway

[jolly rock]

Let me check those out again, I think you might be misremembering

[lost lion]

It never explicitly states that, but First sinner being First of the First, and her being a first gen weaver, kinda how I drew that line

[orchid smelt]

I feel all the sinners are the different generations of weavers

[warm moss]

isnt it crazy that the only time hallownest gets name dropped is at the end of the game?

[orchid smelt]

Like first sinner, second sinner

[woven fulcrum]

So my guess to the story so far ||gms gives some random spider powers which then turns them into the weavers, she then goes to sleep maybe? During the sleep the citadel starts to farm the weavers of their silk, the weavers upset that gms doesn't do anything rejects the faith and tries to book it. Citadel attacks the weavers for not giving their life for the faith and tries to find someone who can give silk permanently so sends out to find the weaver children. They also don't give the silk to the outer edges of the map either because they rejected or that they were to big which makes them dry up and be forgotten. Gms awakens pissed about the weaver situation, makes lace to fill them in and starts the haunting when she's lashing out. I feel like the text in the beginning of the game was to show that gms and the citadel are not on the same page which this explains i think||

[tropic current]

Isn't First Sinner just the first of the weavers to rebel?

[lost lion]

no it's not

[jolly rock]

First sinner would mean the first victim of the genocidal campaign by the Choir Caste

[warm moss]

oh yeah? give me an example

[orchid smelt]

Man, the people in the citadel are assholes

[warm moss]

muichiro the FRAUD

[willow epoch]

so in essence, ||gms is innocent||?

[orchid smelt]

Shouldn't people know not to mess with holy and celestial abilities?

[lost lion]

eh actually was misremembering when this dialogue happened, thought it was before the second lace fight, you're right mb

[broken nacelle]

so why did the weaver worshippers bring hornet to pharloom in the first place? did grandmother silk need hornet's silk? i dont really understand why exactly they were rounding up the surviving weaver blood

[warm moss]

autismcreatureyipee.gif

[orchid smelt]

I feel hornet was probably the last of the weavers

Or smt

[limpid jolt]

the ||arva having little babies while we tried to save the world is so cute🥹 whos the dadddd||

[lost lion]

ehhh one big issue with this is that through the hunters journal its pretty clear GMS is not in a conscious state suring the events of Silksong

[orchid smelt]

So it was involuntary?

[frozen hornet]

the question is does she want to drive people into madness

[orchid smelt]

I feel the haunting was a defense mechanism of sorts from her

[lost lion]

yeah I kinda got that feeling too

[frozen hornet]

also who trapped her in her cocoon?

[lost lion]

not super clear for that

[orchid smelt]

I dont think she's trapped, I think that's just what happens when she slumbers

[indigo vapor]

discord mentioned rahhhh

[orchid smelt]

For GMS

[jolly rock]

The choir bugs lulled her into sleep and exploited her silk in the pursuit of immortality

[frozen hornet]

how'd they do that

[orchid smelt]

who would want to live forever anyway?

[lost lion]

thats, actually possible

[jolly rock]

man this felt so fanservicey 😔

[lost lion]

lemme pull out my gramophone

thank god you can get one for your bellhome

[jolly rock]

its just true! Caretaker confirms as much when you talk to him after you explore whiteward

[indigo vapor]

yeah it felt like a marvel movie one liner to link with the next film corny ass dialogue

[orchid smelt]

Man, why are all holy places snobs in reality?

[willow epoch]

do we think lace is an actual child or just Younger Than Hornet™

[orchid smelt]

Id say younger, she gives teenager energy

[broken nacelle]

i mean someone said lace had been around forever

[lost lion]

she's made to be a child

[woven fulcrum]

Yeah she also says she was made a child

[lost lion]

theres probably a Real world inspiration for the music in the psalm cylinders, similar to how the bells play a part of the dies Irae

[limpid summit]

“I’m still a Hornet Sentinel”

[willow epoch]

to be stuck in the form of a child forever seems terrifying, i see why she hates her life now

[orchid smelt]

Man, why are both radiance and GMS kinda victims in the grand scheme of things, radiance was practically forgotten, and GMS was exploited

[indigo vapor]

"its time to silk the song"

[tropic current]

Dude that's my favourite quote from Homer Silksong

[frozen hornet]

Imagine is GMS just stopped to talk to hornet upon waking up instead of immediately fighting her

[jolly rock]

this shit is confusing me so bad 😵

[lost lion]

sidenote about this, the dies irae being used in the bells is certainly interesting, as its a requiem for the dead

[lost lion]

you should send all of them

[orchid smelt]

What does it mean absolution

[frozen hornet]

forgiveness for their sins

[indigo vapor]

js put ts shi in chatgpt and ask to explain in fortnite terms smh ts pmo

[jolly rock]

^

[limpid summit]

I get making FS the outlier but what’s the difference in their eyes between Not Granted and Denied

[storm whale]

Damn. Even being sick is a sin.

[lost lion]

eiight of the Twelfth is potentially Widow

[frozen hornet]

what do first, fourth, twelfth refer to here?

[tepid knot]

act 3 spoiler ||does basically every bug js die in act 3? do they get revievd or something||

[jolly rock]

literally says she died so

[limpid summit]

Likely sins

[jolly rock]

we dont know

[lost lion]

I took it as what generation weaver, but not actually known

[jolly rock]

he means the phrasing "Fourth of the Fourth"

[frozen hornet]

there's a lot of people dying in this game

[limpid summit]

Maybe one is the sin specifically, and the other is the order they did it in

[orchid smelt]

And why are they all sinners again?

[limpid summit]

Second sin is dissonance

[spark valve]

I mean it says what they did

[frozen hornet]

mostly bs reasons
like straight up being sick

[limpid summit]

Etc

[orchid smelt]

But like, who judged them?

[lost lion]

also second of the fourth is possibly a corpse found in slab, it mentions forgiving of its silence

[frozen hornet]

the citadel has anti-homeless architecture, so you get what kind of society they were XD

[storm whale]

Probably your order and the total number of bugs with that sin.

Ex. 4th of the 4th of the sin of infirmity
Of the 4 people that's sick, you're the 4th one to be condemned in the slab

[urban lantern]

Not Granted i assume is like they were sent into the prison an did not change their ways, Denied would be that they would never be absolved of their sins even if they were to repent

[lost lion]

another interesting thought

[jolly rock]

also for whoever that guy was that asked for evidence of all weavers being females, a lot of the dialogue in the things built that only activate in response to spiders always refer to you as "sister" when they dont know you

[orchid smelt]

Very inclusive, and very to themselves type shit

[limpid summit]

We really just got lucky with faywing

That would have sucked to fight

[peak harbor]

i see i see

[grave rover]

is silksong happening before or after base hk

[limpid summit]

After

[lost lion]

anyways i'm off to a shower and lunch, you should fill me in on the consensus yall reach later @jolly rock

[grave rover]

then how did hornet forgot to use parry and silkstorm skills

[spark valve]

side effect of being sealed for as long as she was

[limpid summit]

Her strength was sapped

[peak harbor]

weakened, she's not necessarily forgetting and re-remembering them just gaining enough of her power back to use them again

[urban lantern]

she was weakened by the seal

[jolly rock]

This was also interesting, the weavers mapped out all the different locations away from Pharloom

[distant briar]

where is that again

[urban lantern]

oh where does this show up?

[limpid summit]

At the end of the

[frozen hornet]

they probably scouted the area before leaving

[spark valve]

the ones who fled might've just left that behind as a guide for others

[jolly rock]

Weaver door in far fields

[frozen hornet]

i wonder if they only went to hallownest, or if there were multiple batches going in other places

[jolly rock]

Naaah, I think it plays into GMS intentions

[jolly rock]

They went all over

GMS wanted an immortal child, she sent the Weavers far and wide and made them a variety of half-weaver children for her in hopes that one could share eternity with her

[storm whale]

They went to other places. You can find a room in the cradle with a note that says where other Weaver descendants went off to

[peak harbor]

i wonder if we'll ever learn of the fate of those weavers who left for different kingdoms

[frozen hornet]

right, forgot that

[urban lantern]

question, do we actually know why GMS does everything that she does during the events of Silksong? like why she's looking for hornet (and other weavers) or why she's causing the haunting?

[distant briar]

what is gms then? A weaver?

[frozen hornet]

i thought the weavers who left were those who betrayed GMS?
didnt widow say that?

[storm whale]

She made the weavers.

[distant briar]

and what is she?

[spark valve]

gms is sending out parties to capture weavers, including hornet, for their silk
Lace needs a lot of silk to stay alive
she's probably trying to save Lace

[peak harbor]

a higher being with dominion over silk

[blissful canyon]

@jolly rock when does the game get good bro 😭

[storm whale]

A higher being

[jolly rock]

Nah widow didnt say that, she just said that weavers left

[blissful canyon]

the start seems really slow

[frozen hornet]

"spawn of those who dared to flee" she said

[woven fulcrum]

I still don't think gms did really anything, other then make the weavers and created the foundation of pharloom, everywhere it says she's sleeping and has yet to awaken so it seems that the citadel is doing the problems and is giving gms the credit for it

[frozen hornet]

it sounds like she doesnt really aprove of them leaving

[limpid summit]

City of Steel will be the Land of Storms of the Steel DLC

[jolly rock]

I forgot to save the third one but there was a third cage

[distant briar]

ah so thats what the First Sinner cutscene was… I thought like First Sinner was a fake weaver but now it makes more sense all weavers were made from normal bugs by her

[limpid summit]

For real though it might not be where the assassins come from but that means Jinn’s masters are slavers

[storm whale]

Yep. I think first sinner was one of those bugs in the unnamed villages in the surface. GMS gave her power and sentience, and made her the first Weaver.

[spark valve]

no she was a pharlid

[jolly rock]

TLDR; GMS at some point created the Weavers and then proceeded to make them go around the world to have half-weaver children with other powerful beings in the hope of fostering an eternal child. Weavers are the result of small spiders being filled up with silk by GMS

[spark valve]

no weavers leaving was not her intent whatsoever

there's something about 'those who dared to flee' they weren't supposed to do that

[woven fulcrum]

Yeah the weavers left because they wanted freedome

[jolly rock]

No there isn't

[woven fulcrum]

Everywhere it says that they were trying to run away

[jolly rock]

They left because Pharloom was genociding weavers after they lulled GMS to sleep

[jolly rock]

Yes because as is shown in the slab, Weavers were being imprisoned and killed

[frozen hornet]

your own screenshot said it does

[woven fulcrum]

Yeah not because they were to breed

[limpid summit]

Does the game suggest that Herrah was “turned into” a Weaver from a common Deepnest spider by the Weavers in a similar manner to GMS (so Hornet had powers) or does it suggest a true retcon

[spark valve]

the weavers were also rebelling against gms on their own, one of the weavenests has a tablets about hiding from her

[jolly rock]

Yeah thats from WIDOW not from GMS

[spark valve]

she is aligned with gms

[frozen hornet]

and widow executes GMS's will

[urban lantern]

but the citadel is pretty much entirely dead by the time that Silksong takes place, and none of the 3 major guys in the citadel really seem to mind hornet all that much

[jolly rock]

GMS has no will, shes asleep

her will is to wake up

[frozen hornet]

then why would she want weavers to spread and make children

[jolly rock]

If Widow was an agent of GMS then she wouldn't try to kill hornet

[distant briar]

no you can see what First Sinner was in the cutscene, she was one of those annoying cave bugs

[frozen hornet]

she wants to "capture" us

[spark valve]

she probably isn't

[distant briar]

where was that written?

[jolly rock]

Because she wants an immortal child to share her divinity with, all her creations disintegrate with time. The few lines of dialogue we have from GMS talk about this specifically in regard to Lace

[spark valve]

widow pre-fight dialogue

[jolly rock]

"One who wishes to awake us"
"Better a child spun frail than none."
"Better a child spun mad than none."

[spark valve]

this makes it pretty damn clear that the weavers fleeing was not what gms intended

[jolly rock]

she literally kills you if you die to her wdym

[frozen hornet]

but she already had Lace tho

[spark valve]

generic game over state

[limpid summit]

Widow is insane dude

[frozen hornet]

many games do that "i'll capture you'" but it's just game over

[woven fulcrum]

Yeah that's because they ran out of silk, that's the reason they were hunting you down. The silk gives them eternal life, but at some point gms starts lashing out in her sleep causing the haunting

[spark valve]

but maybe just capturing her corpse would be enough anyways

[jolly rock]

They would've done that if that was what was actually happening

[spark valve]

in any case it's very silly to argue widow isn't serving grand mother silk

[limpid summit]

She serves GMS but she’s not rational listen to her

[jolly rock]

Are you slow bro Widow cant even reach GMS since shes behind the cradle

What are we even talking about

[frozen hornet]

here's the rudeness again

[jolly rock]

Why are we talking about widow like shes a reliable source of information

[spark valve]

that doesn't change that she's getting hornet for her? she explicitly says that she is

she's capable of saying why she's doing what she's doing this isn't complicated

[urban lantern]

hasn't widow like, gone insane

[jolly rock]

I dont disagree, but thats NOT what GMS wants

[whole holly]

why was weaver bound from using silk?

[jolly rock]

This doesn't mean its the will of GMS

[frozen hornet]

what explicitly says GMS wants a godlike child

[jolly rock]

again GMS is fucking asleep

[frozen hornet]

she just wants a child

so why would she send the weavers if she already has lace

[spark valve]

do you not think gms had any hand in sending people out to capture weavers

[jolly rock]

Lace dialogue, dialogue in the weaver world when she talks with you

[spark valve]

because if she can do that then she can express her will even while asleep

[distant briar]

maybe Gms just didn‘t want to be alone, she tried capturing weavers to have company… That’s also why she created lace to have a child someone to spend eternity with… Maybe she was just depressed 🗣

[woven fulcrum]

No the game tries to make it apparent she's been asleep during most of it

[jolly rock]

"One who wishes to awake us"
"Better a child spun frail than none."
"Better a child spun mad than none."

Lace is a DESPERATE attempt at having a child, its why LACE resents her existence and why she HATES hornet. Hornet is who she needed to be for her mom but she isn't hornet, she's just another silk being who will perish

[jolly rock]

Absolutely not lol

[spark valve]

but you were arguing she was doing that to have a weaver child

[jolly rock]

She had a hand in that BEFORE she fell asleep yes, it was part of her desire to have an immortal child

[spark valve]

bruh

[crude marsh]

im so glad they gave the beehive from hallownest a bigger purpose in the lore thanks to silksong, absolute peak

[jolly rock]

Not while shes asleep, after shes asleep shes not an acting or present entity

[frozen hornet]

they canonised the "daughter of three queens" it made me so happy

[woven fulcrum]

Was there a tablet that said this? All the lore I read said they were leaving to run from pharloom

[jolly rock]

The Weavers make a conspiracy against her sometime before she falls asleep to kill her because she would keep taking their kids

[distant briar]

I was like talking to people here a month ago telling them she got raises by the bee queen and they called me stupid and where I got that shi from

[spark valve]

citation fucking needed but whatever

[jolly rock]

In the cradle are a bunch of cages with specifically weaver children, half weavers, quarter weavers, etc, there are literally hundreds of these throughout the cradle

[spark valve]

this also indicates that their fleeing was not part of her plan

[jolly rock]

Yo they FLEED BECAUSE THE WEAVERS WERE BEING GENOCIDED

[woven fulcrum]

Yeah but that's the citadels doing, all the haunting targets don't have thought they just kill

[spark valve]

they fled GRAND MOTHER SILK

[lost lion]

Oh tammos here

[spark valve]

"this low, her gaze scaped"

they were hiding FROM grand mother silk

to prepare to flee

[woven fulcrum]

I think they were hiding from the citadel

[distant briar]

why was First Sinner in prison again?

[spark valve]

apostasy

[jolly rock]

No man, that has to do with the conspiracy to kill GMS

not with fleeing pharloom

[woven fulcrum]

And they believed that gms was behind the citadels actions

[harsh mantle]

Okay I gotta ask because I just finished the Mr. Mushroom quest. What's everyone's thoughts on like, all of that LMAO

[frozen hornet]

i feel like both are the same

[urban lantern]

she was the first to deny the silkmother's propaganda

[spark valve]

the other weavenest tablet is explicitly about paths to flee

[distant briar]

propaganda about what?

[frozen hornet]

never met the guy

[jolly rock]

its PATHS that the Weavers went on to find other kingdoms to create children with other powerful beings

[storm whale]

Make Pharloom Great Again

[lost lion]

Nah I agree with tammo, they were def hiding from gms, though the wording naive foundation suggests they thought gms to be a naive being, so not likely for reasons of gms hunting them down

[spark valve]

weavenests have a tablet talking about escaping from their foundation, talking about hiding from grand mother silk, and a diagram depicting paths to escape from pharloom

[spark valve]

and then widow describes those who fled as having 'dared to flee'

[urban lantern]

that the weavers were dvinity, FS denied the idea that the weavers were godlike

[jolly rock]

This is all evidence for the conspiracy of killing GMS, did you play Act 3 yet? Have you done the Red Memory?

[next ridge]

Why do they need hornets silk again?

[spark valve]

no it is not

[jolly rock]

did you play act 3

[lost lion]

They did

[spark valve]

I have done act 3, if anything that contradicts what you're saying even more because herrah tells hornet not to care too much about what the weavers ask of her

[cosmic light]

Wait a second, how tf the ||Twisted Hornet|| ending, which I assumed is a bad ending is better than actual ||base act 2|| ending

[spark valve]

the weavers in hallownest may want her to go back and kill gms, but in any case that means the weavers fleeing was not part of her plan

[peak harbor]

oh... we don't get an ss lore 2

[frozen hornet]

not overcrowded enough

[cosmic light]

it's not active enough. Well, bad to proceed into act 3, I don't want spoiled

[peak harbor]

|| which one? the one with the roots?||

[whole holly]

aren't pretty much, because of their abilities, weaving silk is pretty special, why did first sinner think that it was normal thing?

[jolly rock]

the WEAVERS want HER to kill GMS bro, shes the fated child who will bind GMS, thats why all the tablets beg her to reclaim the haunted kingdom

[cosmic light]

yea

[spark valve]

the WEAVERS want that they are going against gms's wishes

[next ridge]

If I had to guess the concept of bind is hornets special ability due to her bloodline?

[peak harbor]

|| u have to get cursed by greyroot and defeat gms while cursed ||

[jolly rock]

YES, because they hate GMS because she keeps taking their kids and putting them in the cradle 😭

[harsh mantle]

Is this not what Greed has been saying this whole time.

[next ridge]

Sense she can basically absorb weavers

[cosmic light]

nonono, not what I'm asking, I got it first. I'm asking how it's ||better|| than base one

[spark valve]

and so they fled
their fleeing was against gms's wishes, it wasn't part of her plan

[next ridge]

Also what the fuck is wrong with widow

[spark valve]

the weaver exodus was an act of rebellion

[frozen hornet]

is it?

[cosmic light]

Like, if ||Hornet bound all that silk, she ruins entire Pharloom, while roots only entrap GMS and hornet + maybe the citadel||

[cosmic light]

depends for whom xd

[spark valve]

no they're claiming that the weavers left pharloom on gms's instruction

[peak harbor]

|| ah, it's probably the worst out of all the endings imo. gms and hornet both get parasitisedby the parasite. god knows what'll happen next. it's a temporary victory with ominous implications in the long term||

[jolly rock]

WHO SAID IT WAS PART OF HER PLAN??? At first she sent weavers around the world to have kids and they would bring them back to her because they loved their mother. There is a line in the game of a weaver being disdainful of GMS and saying something like "At first she treated us like daughters but we found out that she was just exploiting us"

[urban lantern]

first sinner didn't think it was normal, but GMS created the weavers, and told the bugs of pharloom to worship them as gods, despite them being feral bugs only a while ago, basically it's just that the FS decided she didn't like the idea that she came from something lesser than a common pilgrim and was still being worshipped from what i understand

[spark valve]

you did you just said it was part of her plan

[next ridge]

At the end of the roots the roots crack and break open and a beast roars. Aka hornet completed her rebirth into what ever is in that wood

[spark valve]

there's no reason to think she ever deliberately sent weavers away

[cosmic light]

To be honest, the ||parasite's mother||, which I'm assuming is ||adult parasite|| doesn't seem that dangerous

[lost lion]

Man I can’t keep up with yalk typing on mobile

[cosmic light]

Oh

[jolly rock]

I said that her plan was to create an immortal child, the consequence of her ceaseless desire making the Weavers turn against her was obviously not intended

[spark valve]

the paths out of pharloom are in a WEAVENEST, these places were used to hide from gms

[frozen hornet]

would be weird to have both weaver willingly leaving and weavers fleeing

[jolly rock]

She didnt send them away bro, Pharloom has relations with other kingdoms clearly before it fell XD

[spark valve]

ok just totally backpedaling out of the actual claim

[jolly rock]

That has always been the claim please just read what im saying

Point to a message where I said otherwise

[next ridge]

What ever hornet evolves into at the end of the silk bound ending most likely is a mix of grandmother silk divinity and stronger weaver genetics. The likely hood of mental decay is likely though

[spark valve]

womp womp

[next ridge]

So most likely she becomes an eldritch abomination combined of GMS and hornet

[spark valve]

💀

[peak harbor]

||looks can be deceiving, and considering with how much force the parasite consumes us it's possible something worse is going to happen down the line once the parasite fully consumes both hornet and gms' power. but again, this is just speculation - we don't actually know what the parasite will do/become after the ending||

[spark valve]

💀

[jolly rock]

Yes they had a conspiracy to kill Grandmother Silk and what you were quoting had to do with that not with leaving pharloom

[spark valve]

weavers were not supposed to leave the kingdom nothing indicates that they were

[urban lantern]

oh i just found this room in whiteward

[jolly rock]

They left Pharloom after GMS fell asleep, theres no evidecne to suggest otherwise

[spark valve]

they were planning to leave beforehand I already showed it

[jolly rock]

The paths of the kingdoms surrounding Pharloom were created when GMS was sending the Weavers all around to make relations and make children

[spark valve]

they were PLOTTING ESCAPE ROUTES IN LOCATIONS HIDDEN FROM GMS

[next ridge]

So they are an artificial race?

[spark valve]

wrong

[frank dove]

City of steel dlc hint?

[lost lion]

The wording naive foundation suggests the weavers felt that gms was easily exploited, so possibly they hide from gms not because gms was hunting them but rather the citadel exploiting gms to hunt the weavers

[frozen hornet]

there's literally nothing hinting to that

[whole holly]

why isn't lace a weaver, if GMS created weavers, why didn't GMS make lace Weaver as well?

[jolly rock]

Theres literally a map of the places surrounding pharloom mapped out thoroughly in a weavenest XD

[spark valve]

the weavenests were used to hide from grand mother silk, the weavenest atla tablet indicates that
also in a weavenest is the rune depicting exit routes

[whole holly]

also Phantom

[lost lion]

Lace is a silk being

[spark valve]

weavenests were used TO HIDE FROM GMS

[jolly rock]

The cages in the cradle are from FOREIGN KINGDOMS

[frozen hornet]

map made by the weavers, not by Silk

[woven fulcrum]

The weavers existed before given powers, she basically gave silk to a spider, lace is a being made only of silk

[next ridge]

Lace is entirely silk while weavers are arachnids given gms silk

[spark valve]

they are cages from pharloom which parties took to other kingdoms to apprehend part weavers, descendants of the weavers who fled against gms's intentions

[whole holly]

weavers existed but aren't created by GMS?

[frozen hornet]

they were basically common bugs

[lost lion]

They are made by gms

[woven fulcrum]

Their silken powers were given to them so she basically made them

[frozen hornet]

like some enemies we meet in the caverns

[lost lion]

Just enhanced from regular bugs/spiders

[urban lantern]

lesser than common bugs, they were feral bugs

[frozen hornet]

true

[next ridge]

Giving monkeys a pistol and a human brain

[whole holly]

thank you, this clarifies a lot, also thanks to others as well

[jolly rock]

And lets think why she would apprehend part weavers 🤔 🤔 , no cage mentions full weavers but all the ones in the cradle mention offspring of weavers

[spark valve]

because generations had passed

that's what they could find

[lost lion]

I’m fairly sure the cages are just like hornets, captured to bring to the citadel

[lost lion]

Aka after gms’s fall into slumber

[spark valve]

if they just wanted half weavers they would be getting half weavers not eighth and quarter and whatever the fuck

also they had to be APPREHENDED

[jolly rock]

nobody was going up to the cradle though that was place was abandoned

[jolly rock]

She wanted ALL the children

[urban lantern]

First Sinner was a full weaver, but the bloodlines were diluted by the time she started capturing all of the other ones

[spark valve]

yes she wanted anything she could get

[jolly rock]

well duh

[next ridge]

A wyrm and a weaver is a deadly combo

Her lifespan is long as fuck due to it I think

[jolly rock]

Specifically an immortal child

[spark valve]

that's supposed to be Lace

Lace needs a ton of silk to survive

[next ridge]

OHHH so that’s why they wanted hornet because her lifespan is longer

She named elder bug btw

[jolly rock]

Lace cant be immortal because shes made from silk, and she knows anything made from silk will die and is not immortal

Hornet is literally immortal

[spark valve]

No, that's not true

[frozen hornet]

she did?

[spark valve]

Lace could be immortal, she would just need a ton of silk

A bug born entirely of thread. Much Silk would have been needed to see her sustained. A fragile form of life, but life nonetheless

[whole holly]

why does Phantom look so different than lace if they are both silk made beings

[spark valve]

and gms is gathering a ton of silk

[spark valve]

older and not sustained

[frozen hornet]

prototype probably

[next ridge]

Yes lol her wyrm genetics I think gave her a massive boost to lifespan, she mentions it in one of her hunter notes that she has tried to find mates but they always die or don’t last long enough her for lifespan

[whole holly]

so degrading without silk?

[spark valve]

basically

[whole holly]

thanks

[lost lion]

Yeah pale beings dont really die to age, pk only died because of his contact with void

[jolly rock]

Nothing about this implies immortality

[frozen hornet]

yeah but what about her naming elder bug

[whole holly]

so she would only mate with another higher being?

[spark valve]

"Much silk would have been needed to see her sustained"

[next ridge]

Was the whiteward where weavers were created?

[frozen hornet]

the caretaker mentions Lace having existed for a long time while the citadel was thriving

[spark valve]

gms's goal is to sustain Lace

[jolly rock]

Sustained as in to give her a life to live, not an immortal life

[next ridge]

She has lived for along time and was alive when elder bug was born

[jolly rock]

She already used the silk needed to give her that life

[urban lantern]

yea my theory is that Phantom was the initial attempt that turned out poorly so she was just like thrown down to the place beside bilewater as a guard, while lace is the finished result

[spark valve]

sustained is a different verb than created

[next ridge]

There were none to mate with in her time I believe that would last along side her

[next ridge]

@whole holly

[jolly rock]

Sustained means that she doesn't fade away and die

[whole holly]

gotta watch apple event, going to be back in while

[spark valve]

yes good, and by sustaining her indefinitely she becomes immortal

[jolly rock]

3rd definition warrior 🥹

[edgy barn]

I agree with that point but then wouldnt that mean she would need an infinite amount of silk to give lace an infinite life?

[spark valve]

it is in fact the relevant definition

[next ridge]

With hornets silk? Thats kinda sweet

Hornets silk is special from her lineage I presume

[spark valve]

yes! good thing she's gathering things capable of producing it

[jolly rock]

She can't sustain things eternally otherwise she would've made the Weavers her children like she wanted to originally

[lost lion]

Interesting takeaway from this, do you think gms’s sacrifice for lace and hornet extends laces life?

[frozen hornet]

because the two others definitely mean "create"

[spark valve]

It could, probably not forever but maybe for a while, I'm not sure if hornet uses all of that to do the super jump

it certainly stops them dying immediately to void

[jolly rock]

i dont blieve ie ver said the verb created, i said that during her creation a lot of silk was given to allow for her to have a prolonged life

[edgy barn]

fairs, only thing I dont get is why the weavers would have the ability to produce infinite silk and GMS wouldnt if she gave them their "silk powers"

[next ridge]

Hornet makes her own silk and I believe her silk is specialized due to her lineage so it’s possible it’s more fit to sustain lace

[jolly rock]

you cant just pour endless ilk into something to make it live longer, otherwise she would have done that for her first creations, the weavers

Lace is not what she wants

[spark valve]

you can't do that to biological bugs but it may be different for something completely made of silk

[jolly rock]

"One who wishes to awake us"
"Better a child spun frail than none."
"Better a child spun mad than none."

its just what she can get

[frozen hornet]

maybe it doesnt work with "upgraded" bugs, but a full-silk being it might

[lost lion]

Lace of theseus

[jolly rock]

Is there anything to imply this though 🤔 i mean i guess intelligence in silk beings is already kinda weird

[frozen hornet]

if she wants what she can get, why does she want more

[urban lantern]

i mean, she definiely makes a big show of not wanting lace to die when she's pulled into the void, if she didn't want lace she wouldn't care that much

[spark valve]

that's very possible, though her silk being special is said to make it more in line with gms's. It's possible gms just can't spare enough to keep refreshing lace or something

[jolly rock]

She wants an actual immortal child, this is why Lace says to hornet that "its you who she wants anyways"

[frank dove]

I wonder if in game 3 or dlc we find more about wyrm origins

[frozen hornet]

are we sure Lace truly knows what GMS wants?
she might just be jealous

[jolly rock]

I don't know why we ignore Lace's conversation on the Cradle when talking about the relationship between lace and GMS

[frank dove]

I feel like that is one of the few completely unanswered topics in the games after everything from silksong

[next ridge]

GMS made weavers, sent them out to mate with other creatures, then captured the hybrids back to the cradle. It’s possible GMS’s goal was to find a hybrid whose silk could find a way to fully sustain lace. Unless I’m getting this messed up

[lost lion]

Thats what I gathered from that

[urban lantern]

i mean, wyrms have practically no part in silksong

[spark valve]

the hybrid thing is pretty unfounded as far as I can tell

[edgy barn]

but couldnt that jst be lace's misguided assumption born of her frustration of being faulty?

[jolly rock]

She was there when she was awake

[frank dove]

Yes exactly

Oh you mean less likely dlc

[spark valve]

the weaver exodus from the kingdom was done hidden outside of gms's sight as a way to "break free this accursed web born of [their] naive foundation"

[jolly rock]

She was there when GMS was awake, shes frustrated and self-hating because she can't be the thing her mother wants: an immortal

[frozen hornet]

she's not jealous because she's not immortal, she's jealous because Lace doesnt consider herself "alive"

[edgy barn]

the thing that makes it hard to believe this is her being so adamant about saving lace in the void

[urban lantern]

yea unless they just kinda throw a wyrm into the mix in a DLC i don't see it happening in a silksong DLC

[jolly rock]

She hates her mom and hates hornet, her mom she hates for fashioning her cruel existence because she couldn't bear not having a child, and she hates hornet because she can't be hornet

[spark valve]

because hornet is ALIVE

Lace doesn't think she really is a real being

[jolly rock]

GMS loves lace but lace is not immortal

[jolly rock]

She's conscious brochacho

[spark valve]

"Yours was life, pale one. Do not confuse your unique creation with its absence. I have seen others make the same mistake"

[frozen hornet]

^

and lace rejects that idea

[tulip comet]

So what was the reason Hornet was brought to Pharloom?

[jolly rock]

Her being disdainful of her pathetic existence does not mean she things she doesn't exist lol

[urban lantern]

and she still believes that her life is worthless because she isn't truly a living being

[spark valve]

it means she thinks she doesn't count

[edgy barn]

yea I agree but arent u arguing against the point that GMS wants hornet/weavers to sustain lace's life? those two arent mutually exclusive

[spark valve]

it doesn't mean she literally doesn't exist it means she feels fake

[frank dove]

Well they could prob add areas off the edge of the map, which there are 2 or 3 of

[urban lantern]

someone bring up laces dialogue again

[tulip comet]

nvm I got it

[frozen hornet]

she thinks she's not a worthy daughter
but the truth is, and that's what happens in act 3, she is

[next ridge]

Probably because they are trying to find a creature who can sustain lace

[frank dove]

So it is not in pharloom

[jolly rock]

No it means that she, unlike everyone else, was created to fill someone else's emotional void and not through some sort of marriage between two people

And she can't even do that

[jolly rock]

She's still not worthy technically, but she is still loved by her mother

[frozen hornet]

sounds like being worthy tbh

compared to the weavers

[spark valve]

Lace thinks grand mother silk doesn't want her
she is wrong

[edgy barn]

yea but thats her own frustration, nothing suggests GMS absolutely NEEDS an immortal child (even if that would be her ideal)

[next ridge]

If weavers wanted Horner to bind the mother then that means her transformation is positive rather than negative based on if the weavers knew that would happen

[spark valve]

this is the point, she's WRONG

[jolly rock]

It's what she wants though

[frozen hornet]

she just wants a child, not explicitly an eternal one

[tulip comet]

do we know who grand mother silk is, exactly?

[jolly rock]

Lace knows GMS wants her she was created to fill her emotional void, but she isnt good enough, it doesn't change that even though she's not good enough her mother loves her

[edgy barn]

sure but couldnt she, once realizing she couldnt have an immortal child, work to MAKE lace immortal through sustaining her with silk?

[urban lantern]

Lace says she is a "Husk shaped to act like a child" which heavily implies that she believes that her existence is worthless, because she is not made of flesh, but just a husk acting as she was told. not because she can't be what her mother wants, which she's doing to the best of her ability

[blissful canyon]

greed I have a question

[next ridge]

It’s a sweet story but the mothers love for lace costed the safety to other creatures

[spark valve]

this isn't like complicated math to do, we know gms cares a lot about Lace, that Lace could be sustained with enough silk, and that gms is going to great pains to have silk collected

[frozen hornet]

i think the story hits deeper if lace is truly wrong, and that for the beginning Silk loved her truly, and doesnt want anyone else, but Lace doesnt see it because of self-depreciation

and the fact that she probably hasnt seen her mother in a good while

[jolly rock]

If she just wanted a child then she would've been fine with the weavers, but she wasn't, she was trying to fashion an immortal child and failed

[spark valve]

the weavers rebelled against her

[edgy barn]

thats my interpretation to some extent though I do believe maybe GMS initially did resent lace more than she does during the events of silksong

[tulip comet]

When they say "Eight of the Twelfth" - I get they are refering to Weavers, but what do the first and second numbers mean?

[urban lantern]

yea i believe this is the correct interpretation.

[frozen hornet]

well, we dont know if she made the weavers before or after Lace

[jolly rock]

The weavers were originally her children and they rebelled against her because they were being exploited by her

in search of an eternal child

[urban lantern]

it might be based on the number of part-blood weavers that were captured

[next ridge]

Lace gameplay dlc when

[lost lion]

Before

[jolly rock]

Nah, part weavers are listed very clearly with phrasings like "one eight"

[jolly rock]

The weavers were her first children

[tulip comet]

Right. Do we know why/how some of the weavers went to Hallownest? Also why Widow was working for GMS?

[urban lantern]

it was definitely before Lace

[spark valve]

they fled the kingdom to escape from gms

[edgy barn]

running from GMS

[next ridge]

As a way to escape

But in the process did what GMS wanted

I think?

[spark valve]

there's not really any reason to think that's what she wanted

[urban lantern]

Weavers fled from pharloom all over the place, Hallownest was just one place they got to.

[edgy barn]

i think its more like she made a plan B given the cirumstances

[frozen hornet]

that's the big debate XD

[next ridge]

We’re weavers created to supply silk for lace

[jolly rock]

They didn't all go to Hollownest... at least there's no reason to believe that

[edgy barn]

some

[spark valve]

they don't need to leave the kingdom to do that that just makes it harder to access them

[frozen hornet]

if GMS wanted the perfect half-breed, why capture the 1/8th breed ?

[next ridge]

Maybe it was a secondary idea that came with the process she was like “oh shit this is pretty good actually”

[spark valve]

in fact she was probably already using them for that before they fled, that's maybe why they did

[limpid summit]

Why does Nuu exist like why is Nuu the HJ attendee

If it’s for the Unn connection it’s such a different vibe

[jolly rock]

She wanted an immortal child fostered with other higher beings, for whatever reason she cannot marry another higher being and have children with them so the weavers are her proxy to do that

[crude marsh]

Nuu haters rise up

[blissful canyon]

guys isnt silk song "non canon" if we go with the sealed siblings ending...?

[spark valve]

she's a kissing bug they feed on blood and nuu wants to know all the tastes of everything in the kingdom

[jolly rock]

All children go to her, 1/4th or 1/8th

[limpid summit]

I mean I like her

[jolly rock]

doesn't really matter, she just wants an immortal child

[frozen hornet]

ngl nuu isnt as bad as we expected from the trailer

[crude marsh]

Are there any other higher beings within Pharloom? From what ive found there arent so maybe thats why

[blissful harbor]

how tf is nuu kissing bug

[crude marsh]

true

[jolly rock]

Whatever the hell that tentacle thing in far fields was might be a higher being or a vessel for a higher being, I'm not sure

[spark valve]

have you looked at her

[crude marsh]

shes kinda chill icl, its that old ass flea that i hate

[limpid summit]

Well her shell isn’t real

[edgy barn]

well if u count the shade lord ig

[limpid summit]

and we know Unn isn’t a slug

[tulip comet]

Tentacle thing in far fields???

[blissful harbor]

that’s the most snail snail ever to me

[frozen hornet]

there actually is a guy who is exactly the kind tho
exactly this one

[limpid summit]

Feasibly Nuu could take inspiration but like

[jolly rock]

The lady that kidnaps you and plants a parasite in you and it gives you the cursed ending

[urban lantern]

i mean Shades kinda exists anywhere since he lives in the abyss

[spark valve]

I mean trying to 'kiss' hornet was a way to taste her fluids

[edgy barn]

yea thats why its jst true technically xd

[crude marsh]

I cant remember what that tentacle thing is or where it is but ive prb sure seen it, unless its in some secret room i havent been to

[spark valve]

kissing bugs are called that because they bite around people's mouths

[limpid summit]

But why Nuu

[jolly rock]

Yeah it's pretty weird, and I'm not sure why its a crest either

[limpid summit]

She could have been called like Jimble and look completely different

[tulip comet]

Oh right. What about Eva? What was she?

[jolly rock]

A lot of mysteries and we cant agree on basic plot points we're cooked ✌️

[wide osprey]

Honestly Pharloon feels so ALIVE compare to Hallownest
Yes, there are slavery/ mind control/tyranny and all, but overall there're way more residents/ goal chasers/ people who have a living and such.
It's a more lively kingdom compare to the first game.

[limpid summit]

Artificial HB

[jolly rock]

Digitized weaver

[urban lantern]

what tentacle thing are you referring to?

[spark valve]

rather an attempt at one

[jolly rock]

The girl in the house in far fields who gives you the pollip quest

and prepares a ritual that infects you with something

[urban lantern]

OH that's in shellwood

[blissful harbor]

tried to make one, were like ew and turned her into an AI weavers are evil ong

[crude marsh]

oh thats shellwood

[jolly rock]

oh my bad lmfao

[crude marsh]

all goods

[spark valve]

hey eva is the goat

[urban lantern]

yea i was gonna mention she seems related to White Lady in a way

[limpid summit]

What do we get about Nuu after we finish HJ

[jolly rock]

Seems related to Nyleth

[limpid summit]

Hunnter’s mark

[jolly rock]

Nyleth seems like a higher being too lol

[crude marsh]

Yeah she's the same kind of creature as the White Lady, but i dont see her as a higher being- maybe just the same type of creature.
Like how the radiance is also a moth, but the moths aren't all higher beings ofc

[limpid summit]

Rad isn’t a moth

Greyroot honestly is a candidate look at her

[blissful harbor]

i used to think they were the same species, but after the shit with the crest i’m more confident they are distantly related
still both roots tho

[crude marsh]

oh fr? i thought she was, or atleast very similar

[limpid summit]

We know PK is a Wyrm we aren’t sure all Wyrms are HBs but they do pull bugs into their thrall

[frank dove]

I really liked how ||seth|| was at the flea festival later, that was a really nice detail

[urban lantern]

Rad is a lamp-shaped moth

[limpid summit]

Well true she’s similar but she doesn’t have a species really she just created the tribe in her image

And now Roots are another HB species jeez

[spark valve]

well

idk if greyroot is the same species

[crude marsh]

Ah gotcha

[frank dove]

Hornet is a hb guys

[limpid summit]

Could be could be not

[crude marsh]

100% related, theyre both roots, both obsessed with breeding/birthing type stuff so yeah

[limpid summit]

Not like we see another Wyrm to confirm the homogeneity of all Wyrms

[spark valve]

in the basic ending probably

[spark valve]

related maybe, same species is iffy

[urban lantern]

not here to kinkshame but white lady went a bit wild with it, and squiggly lady went and unbirthed a child so like

[crude marsh]

😭

[frank dove]

I have done a lot of watching videos and streamers and I feel like there is still an ending no one has gotten yet?

[next ridge]

Probably

[frank dove]

It is not an achievement but it is its own cutscene

[blissful harbor]

greyroot didn’t see any wyrms around so she had to do the next best thing

[frozen hornet]

while lady straight up bound herself because the desire was too strong

[frank dove]

Possibly just steel soul mode makes ending different?

[urban lantern]

what one are you talking about?

[blissful harbor]

wait actually

[spark valve]

I've seen the cutscene don't know how it's unlocked

[urban lantern]

it's actually also part of her kink

[blissful harbor]

she found the wyrm nvm she did good

[frank dove]

Have you seen an all endings video before?

It is the one where it doesn't kill everyone but is similar to ending 1

[urban lantern]

no, but from what i know there are only 4 ending cutscenes?

if you count the void one

[frank dove]

Yes that is why I am confused

[spark valve]

https://youtu.be/J4QB1wB88t4?t=94

[frank dove]

Possibly an unused cutscene

[spark valve]

it could be unused

[frank dove]

Yes that 'ending 3'

[full seal]

So like what the fuck is phantom

[frank dove]

Same as lace

[blissful harbor]

weird how both mask makers and Mr mush have the same eyes i never noticed that

[spark valve]

same type of creature as lace, entirely made of silk, but old and fading

[full seal]

Ah

Ic

[blissful harbor]

awww so the black shit wasn’t void? 💔

[spark valve]

it was not

[urban lantern]

she is a silk being, and lace's sister

man

[blissful harbor]

she’s wearing a mask though right?, ig those kind of creatures jdut have black faces

[frozen hornet]

what is even happening in ending 3

[frank dove]

I still have no clue

[crude marsh]

for whatever reason grand mother silk didnt like her, maybe defective? didnt come out right?
I played the needolin at her containment glass cell, and it shows her inside with lace beside. I forgot the line it says tho

[frank dove]

What is the thing at the start??????

[spark valve]

looks like hornet taking the place of grand mother silk

[frank dove]

Steel soul???

[spark valve]

yeah

[frank dove]

Yes but no one has done it before

[edgy barn]

think its the one where they basically go like "we were born to break" yadda yadda

[spark valve]

I know somebody who's working through steel soul if they get through and report that ending playing I'll shoot you a ping

[crude marsh]

Yeah u right

[frank dove]

this does not look anything like that

[sudden kiln]

You know, before i beat the true final boss, i was like, what if the knight suddenly saves us, from like the abyss, well well well

[crude marsh]

bro came in clutch

[urban lantern]

the hell is that thing

[blissful harbor]

so shit where is this image from, the steel group is actually in the game??

[crude marsh]

idk ive never seen it b4

[frank dove]

IDK

[spark valve]

probably styx location in steel soul

[orchid smelt]

Another crimson?

[frank dove]

Far right in karak

[next ridge]

So does the shade lord AKA the knight sort of a minor deity now? Acts as the one who monitors the abyss as a concept. And if so did he on purpose allow the abyss and void to seep into pharloom as a sort of punishment for abusing void to seal gms or is he just a super powerful entity in the abyss

[frank dove]

🫡

[clever warren]

finally reached ||last judge||, what are the best combat tools to use on this boss?

wait wrong chat

[sudden kiln]

Only in ss mode?

[spark valve]

they're a god, dunno where they were for most of act 3 the knight is a bum

[frank dove]

Ye hold up 1 sec

[blissful harbor]

they were chilling

they trusted hornet ofc

[sudden kiln]

How do you even unlock steel soul mode

[blissful harbor]

beat the game i’d assume

[sudden kiln]

I did but i dont remember seeing it unlock xd

[crude marsh]

Beat the game or input a code somewhere in the menu i forgot

u can search it up

[frozen hornet]

probably takes a while to travel from hallownest to pharloom even in the void

[sudden kiln]

SHAW!

[urban lantern]

He's just a super powerful entity in the abyss, no reason to believe he controls any part of the void besides the "void given focus" (which is all the shades in hallownest)

[blissful harbor]

theres void already in pharloom right? TK should be able to use that

[spark valve]

the void heart description in question:

[next ridge]

So basically a “top of the food chain” scenario where he overpowers what ever lies in it

[frank dove]

@sudden kiln here

[supple flax]

||Green prince jumping me for invading his dream of his gay lover|| god people are so sensitive nowadays

[frank dove]

Finish normal ending or I saw a lot of ppl saying konami code

[urban lantern]

yea, he's not the entire void, but he controls a good portion of what was in hallownest, and he's also got an actual will, which the void itself doesn't have

[frozen hornet]

it's not konami code
i think it's just : up down up down left right left right
in the extra menu

[edgy barn]

doesnt the charm's description straight up says "unify the void under the bearer's will" tho?

[spark valve]

it does

[frank dove]

So konami code without the b a ._.

[spark valve]

no that's up up down down

[blissful harbor]

TK controls all of the void in hallownest, the only thing it cant is imprinted void like kingsmould

[sudden kiln]

Ahaa so that area is for ss only xd

[naive cargo]

ITS REAL

[frank dove]

Oh mb

[naive cargo]

THEY DIDNT CUT THE MASTERS PLOT LINE WOOO

[blissful harbor]

i couldn’t really access that site because my phone is xenophobic, is the rest of the group there or is that like set up for dlc?

[frank dove]

They did cut coral gorge tho which sucks

Scrapped it for that tower

[next ridge]

I can imagine him basically as the owner of violent dogs with how he beats the shit out of what ever tendrils went after hornet. Dogs that don’t listen to him but restrains them if they do dumb shit

[urban lantern]

yea from what i understand, the birthplace is is the void that is unified, so all of the vessels in hallownest

[edgy barn]

i like this way of thinking tbh

[naive cargo]

theres two videos and it seems like it’s just one quest with one unique boss

[frank dove]

Ig that was cool but it looked so much better as a whole area and old boss arena for khann looked better

[naive cargo]

First shade boss

Or void/regrets boss

[next ridge]

Weaker beings that fall under the higher beings. In terms of what goes

I REALLY hope we get more content with the knight and hornet

Such as an after game content with act 3 where you actively begin restoring the kingdom through wishes and collecting recourses

And maybe after game content for the normal ending

[spark valve]

it's all the void in hallownest at least, it also pacifies the tendrils

[quartz plinth]

Hornet ||Confirms Silksong is a sequel on Act 3, deniers in shambles, SILKSONG TOMORROW!||

[sudden kiln]

I hope a questline for another ending with secret steps

[next ridge]

And the game will continue as hints to Mr mushroom

[frozen hornet]

btw anyone here has seen the huntress in act3 after having done her quest in act 2?

[spark valve]

no I went back in act 3 and she was gone

[next ridge]

Team Cherry could do so much more shit such as new areas, modes, content the possibilities are practically endless

Such as a pantheon leaderboard

[frozen hornet]

all this meat for nothin ;^;

[blissful harbor]

did y’all check with her bf, i haven’t met her yet but couldn’t she be there

[sudden kiln]

Waitt you cant complete that quest anymore?

[edgy barn]

dont u give it to one of her children or sum?

[frozen hornet]

do they know each other?
you mean the "slave" guy right

[sudden kiln]

Who are her children bro

[frozen hornet]

yeah you can, but i meant for nothing because it was to prevent her from being eaten by her children

[blissful harbor]

the guy that looks like her, who was talking about waiting for his mistress

[edgy barn]

idk thats what I saw some ppl say bout how to complete the quest after act 3😭

[spark valve]

afaik you can complete the quest by going back and delivering the food to one of her children who will be there in her place

[sudden kiln]

Isn’t that the quest where you need to kill enemies with tools?

[edgy barn]

yup

[cinder storm]

We still see the Void Given Focus briefly, so it is probably a mix of Dream No More and Embrace the Void (either version, more likely Delicate Flower).

[sudden kiln]

Well if the reward is gonna be a charm

It has to be doable for 100%

[cinder storm]

That means Ghost killed the Radiance, brought her back to life, and killed her again.

[spark valve]

it's probably meant to be ambiguous which ending it follows

[next ridge]

Probably to not scare the shit out of hornet or maybe because the form is more presentable. The shade lord form blinks in and out for a moment so most likely true

[urban lantern]

i believe that the form that hornet sees is just what she believes the shade lord to look like, but shen whe blinks it shows the true form of the void given focus

[blissful harbor]

hey where is thk actually
i don’t think i saw them in one of those ending cutscenes

[next ridge]

Does the knight have a will? Do they know to treat hornet as a sibling? Or is it just out of appreciation

[spark valve]

probably in hallownest or something

[blissful harbor]

if it’s after EtV, hornet jdut fucking killed them lmao

[violet hull]

What do you think happens in the ordinary ending (the one you get in act 2 by beating silk)
Do you become a new higher silk being for pharloom?
I didn't really understand it

[next ridge]

Do vessels have a conscious or cognition?

[urban lantern]

the knight absolutely has a will, he bound the entire void in hallownest to his will

[blissful harbor]

yes

[next ridge]

God damn

[edgy barn]

thats what it seems to imply imo

[next ridge]

He doesn’t have emotional intelligence but he sure does know how to treat someone such as a sibling

Hes just I’d assume

[violet hull]

The knight saved their younger sibling 🥹 (hornet)
Not so hollow after all

[cinder storm]

*It

[wild falcon]

What's the lore explanation to hornet having revives?

[next ridge]

Just as in knowing what’s morally right and fair. That’s probably the best way to describe the knight. Someone who knows that’s wrong from right but not emotionally acting on it with bravery or justice for those who are apart of it.

[cinder storm]

Also, where the hell was Hollow's Shade in that ending?

[distant briar]

Pantheon of gods ending maybe

[urban lantern]

THK wasn't bound to the void given focus

[distant briar]

Hollow knight just might be out there

[cinder storm]

We still see the Siblings behind the Knight in the ending.

Hollow wasn't one of them.

[next ridge]

He exists but I doubt he really cares for hornet, but he’s probably close with the knight in terms of existing in the abyss

“Chums”

[spark valve]

it totally could be all we see are eyes

[urban lantern]

yea because all those shades were bound to the knight, THK is actually like, walking around in hallownest according to EtV ending

[distant briar]

if the godmaster ending is lore accurate then maybe the Hollow knight isn’t void yet and is still alive freed from his duty

[next ridge]

Big bro and his family.

[distant briar]

they would show hollow knight if he was there

[spark valve]

not necessarily and it's not like any of them are actually there they just flash for a moment then they're gone

[blissful harbor]

tbf they’re the largest sibling i think it would be noticeable if the intent was for them to be there

[next ridge]

Act 3 makes true ending cannon. And act 2 endings probably make the radiance normal fight cannon so idk. But godhome prob more cannon

[urban lantern]

i mean THK is definitely void, he just wasn't taken in by the knight

[limpid summit]

I’m not sold on etv vs dnm but like come on of course they’d show it

[next ridge]

It depends on route

[limpid summit]

That’s begging the question

[cinder storm]

Ah.

[spark valve]

eh

[next ridge]

Both are cannon based on decisions

[urban lantern]

act 2 endings wouldn't really have any relation to HK's endings so not really

[spark valve]

again the shades aren't even actually there both those and the shade lord flash seem to be because hornet is losing consciousness or some shit

[distant briar]

does anyone have all the momentos?

[next ridge]

I guess it’s a Schrödinger situation?

Nothing is true until you see it

[edgy barn]

well maybe not the ending itself but hornet's assertions that "even gods can fall" pretty much implies that the canon ending is one where the radiance was defeated at the very least

[urban lantern]

not really, i think it's absolutely canon that EtV is the true ending, because act 2's endings don't have any relation at all to Hollow Knight's endings, and the only confirmation we get on where silksong takes place in the timeline is in the act 3 ending

[urban lantern]

well to be fair the pale king was also a god and he died so...

[cinder storm]

Hollow's Shade had its scar on them in DNM, and none of them possess that.

[blissful harbor]

also like, how or why did WL have the delicate flower in the past
wtf was even happening there how was talking to hornet through a memory
ig that makes more sense she’s a HB but still, why did she have the flowerrr

[spark valve]

if the intent was to exclusively canonize etv then the vgfocus wouldn't just appear as a blink while hornet is hallucinating with the main form present being the dnm version

[spark valve]

no reason to think that would have to be permanent

[spark valve]

she'd have access to them via ze'mer who cares

[next ridge]

“Even the gods can fall” would mean that hornet would have either seen the death of radiance/the hollow knights or would have caught awareness of the death of radiance in godhome. So idk

[urban lantern]

honestly no idea, we don't actually know if the flower was from the white lady or if it was just hornet's recollection of the flower

[urban lantern]

the Pale king was also technically a god though, and he died long before the radiance did.

But anyways, hornet would have known the radiance died because the infection was totally wiped out, like you can see it drain from the vines in EtV

[spark valve]

the ss ending clearly acknowledges both etv and dnm as endings there's no reason to shoot it the way they did if the intent was to make either one exclusively canon to silksong

it could not more clearly be meant to be ambiguous

[urban lantern]

i mean it is somewhat ambiguous but showing the lord of shades almost guarantees that EtV is canon

[spark valve]

it really doesn't

because it's not even actually there

[blissful harbor]

hornet is tripping balls

[urban lantern]

like i said, the vessels could very well be just what hornet wants to see, because the Shade Lord's appearance is quite frightening all things considered

[quartz plinth]

Would the knight survive in pharloom?

[blissful harbor]

yes

[spark valve]

but we see what's there when hornet is unconscious and it's not the vgfocus form

[blissful harbor]

TK would dogwalk pharloom

[spark valve]

what is physically materially there in the cutscene is the dnm form

[edgy barn]

the lord of shades isnt necessarily created in EtV, he jst manifests there cause of godhome's properties, godseeker refering to him as the god of gods clearly implies prior knowledge of him

[spark valve]

just that, not the siblings

[void smelt]

In lore terms, what are these

[urban lantern]

idk i don't think it's likely that DNM is the right answer purely because of the flash of the Void Given Focus.

[spark valve]

which isn't actually there

[urban lantern]

basically hornet's soul

[edgy barn]

hornet's Dissociative identity disorder's personalities🧐

[void smelt]

Nice, Thanks

[void smelt]

Makes sense to me

[blissful harbor]

her nature..whatever thst means

[urban lantern]

and what proves that it isn't actually there though, hornet saw the knight and his siblings, but shen she blinks it shows the shade lord

[uneven badge]

Just beat ||lost lace||, I'm too in awe to think straight right now can anyone confirm which ending from Hollow Knight is considered canon for this to be possible?

[woven fulcrum]

its ambiguous it seems like they are beings souls of which hornet can mimic due to her powers of her silk

[spark valve]

watch the cutscene again

[urban lantern]

EtV listen to me i'm so smart :3

[spark valve]

hornet sees the knight, then blinks and shades, then blinks and vgfocus, then it leaves her perspective and neither are there

[spark valve]

either dnm or etv

[uneven badge]

Dream no more, which one was ETV?

[spark valve]

pantheon 5

[urban lantern]

p5

[uneven badge]

thanks a lot ❤️

[uneven flint]

Is there a lore reason why everything cost in pharloom

[spark valve]

rosaries represent a bug's devotion, it's probably meant as a test of faith

[uneven flint]

That lowkey makes sense

[urban lantern]

yea so watching it again, she looks at the knight, then sees the siblings, then the shade lord which would only exist in EtV.

[spark valve]

and then what happens

it vanishes

because it was never there

[edgy barn]

the shade lord doesnt only exist in EtV, he jst appears there

[urban lantern]

she still knows what the shade lord looks like though

[blissful harbor]

“ i see you’ve walked 1000 miles up a cliff to get here, as further proof of your faith gimme $100 to sit down”

[urban lantern]

the shade lord is created due to the void being given focus in ETV

[woven fulcrum]

the shade lord was all the knights potential its not that they turn into it rather they have the ability to be it, it could just be hornet seeing that potential

[spark valve]

sure could be that

it's a weird cutscene

[edgy barn]

see idk about that, godseeker knows about the shade lord and even has a name for him so i doubt he was created then and there

[spark valve]

the mechanics of it make very little sense but it's clearly trying to acknowledge both endings without directly confirming either

[woven fulcrum]

or it could be that thats what they are, either way TC made it to be ambiguous so both endings could make sense

[edgy barn]

at least we can all agree our boy the knight wasnt forced to be a containment unit for eternity🙏

[safe ice]

Pharloom is the stinkiest game region I've ever witnessed

[urban lantern]

The thing is that Godseeker is basically the one that created the lord of shades, after the knight proves that he is capable of becoming what she believes. and it's shown in EtV because the shade lord has finally been given form and focus

[woven fulcrum]

the lord of shades wasnt created, it was the void after they all focused on one objective with the help of the godseekers

[edgy barn]

yea maybe idk, i jst always interpreted the shade lord as an ancient being that was able to manifest there because of godhome

but that always existed in some way

[spark valve]

the lord of shades is the knight with void heart, in godhome it gets empowered by godseeker focus to take a different form, it is not something that always existed

[urban lantern]

except the knight doesn't need the void heart to become the shade lord

[spark valve]

yes it does

[urban lantern]

you can go to godhome and beat the radiance without ever touching the kingsoul

[spark valve]

you cannot

you need void heart to access p5

[woven fulcrum]

he is right, p5 doesnt exist without the void hear, without it the knight wouldnt have been able to command the void

[urban lantern]

ah, so you do, my bad

but yea the lord of shades was not always an entity. it was definitely created through the void being given focus

[warm plaza]

I have a question

I just beat the normal ending

So uh, what does it mean exactly, does hornet become the new grand mother silk?

[woven fulcrum]

I think the better way to think of it is that the lord of shades is what happens when the knight and all the other shades basically combine into one power, the godseekers just helped with that

[spark valve]

basically

[urban lantern]

not entirely sure, but that's the theory based on related dialogue

[warm plaza]

Is the lord of shades the big dude from the end of pantheon 5 or a Silksong thing

[spark valve]

former

[urban lantern]

ye afrom the ending of p5

[spark valve]

well

lord of shades is just the knight when it gets void heart

it gets empowered by godseeker focus in p5 to take a new form called void given focus

[edgy barn]

correct me if im wrong but wasnt there a dream nail dialogue where u bonked a statue in the abyss and it said "lord of shades"?

[spark valve]

it says that in response to getting void heart and becoming the lord of shades

if you don't have void heart it says power without unity

[edgy barn]

wait holdup then im confused now, wasnt the lord of shades only the one present in the godhome?

[urban lantern]

no technically, we just end up interchanging them a lot

[woven fulcrum]

||in both silksong and hollowknight we dont see any other shades around when we see the lord of shades, it seems to imply both in hk and silksong that the shades turn into it||

[urban lantern]

Void Given Focus is that beast in godhome

[spark valve]

all void does

[warm plaza]

Which one's the real ending of Silksong btw

Act 2 or act 3

[edgy barn]

ahh alright got it, that makes more sense

[urban lantern]

yea exactly

[urban lantern]

act 3's ending is the only one that makes sense as a proper ending

[woven fulcrum]

not all void as we see in silksong, it fights against it

[warm plaza]

Ah ok

[spark valve]

all void in hallownest

there appears to be a bit of a retcon with how it works but it's not just the siblings

[urban lantern]

at least all the shades in hallownest

[spark valve]

all void in hallownest

[narrow scarab]

what is the lore of the nameless town

[urban lantern]

practically nothing

[narrow scarab]

its such a climatic and cool place i wish there was something more than memoria

[urban lantern]

some assume that might be dirtmouth but that's kind of unlikely lol

[spark valve]

it's certainly not dirtmouth

[narrow scarab]

i thought about that but that just doesent make sense to me

[woven fulcrum]

does it say anything when you play the song up there?

[spark valve]

yes but it was kind of unremarkable so I don't remember what

[urban lantern]

please don't beg in the lore chat

[woven fulcrum]

yeah I dont remember either

[cosmic kindle]

What're they talking abt, which curse? What happned to the citadel and why is everything dead here?

[distant briar]

get out this server there are too many spoilers 🗣️🗣️

[cosmic kindle]

Should I spoiler more or less haha, people always tell me to spoiler everything. Even the area names...

[next ridge]

Curse is the silk mind control

[frozen hornet]

iirc it hints at the bugs living there being attracted by something below
the one whose memory we see says something like "the last ones left" "attracted below"
i think it might hint at the first inhabitant of pharloom who were attracted by Silk

[cosmic kindle]

What god? And who is she calling spider?

[spark valve]

grand mother silk

[cosmic kindle]

One of the same race as Hornet?

[spark valve]

no

[woven fulcrum]

I would play the game first, theres a lot of lore and story that would get spoiled asking in here

[cosmic kindle]

Is this hollow knight lore? Which god has she seen fall?

[next ridge]

Spider is a nickname for hornet, because she is weaver descendant, and the god is referring to what ever is controling pharloom aka the final boss which is also laces mother

[spark valve]

radiance and the pale king

[next ridge]

The radiance

[cosmic kindle]

HK lore

Is there a good HK lore summary where I can get to know that game without buying it?

[next ridge]

Gods in hollow knight and pharloom arnt immortal in terms of durability but instead age and they arnt truly all powerful just super juiced up anomalies.

[whole holly]

you can watch mossbag videos

[urban lantern]

mossbag's lore video is the most complete one

[cosmic kindle]

I'll look that one up, ty

The first one or the playlist?

[next ridge]

Hell, an army of bugs could
Probably harm a god

If kill if they are strong enough

[woven fulcrum]

first one I think he goes over the majority of everything

[naive cargo]

I wouldn’t say that…

[terse warren]

Yeah it's the 1 hour 20 minute one but if you want to discuss 1st game lore you should probably go to #hk-lore

[warm orchid]

Can someone explain why grand mother silk wanted hornet/weaver blooded bugs to begin with? Like it seems implied to be about replacing herself but like why, shes effectively immortal isnt she? Whats the deal.

[terse warren]

My best assumption is it's to keep Lace alive

[whole holly]

playlist is more complete and includes first video, i would say it is good enough summary

[next ridge]

These are Demi gods because god damn what do they feed these enemies

[cosmic kindle]

The first one alone is enough?

[molten grove]

how do you reach the nameless town? is it through the cradle?

[whole holly]

i guess, if you want shorter summary

[minor gulch]

yep

[whole holly]

you might miss out on some details since it is mostly complete

[dapper comet]

mossbag

[terse warren]

Lace's Journal entry says that "a huge amount of Silk would be required to sustain her" and evidently GMS just didn't have enough, so she started trying to get it from Weavers

[spark valve]

that seems to be why yes

[woven fulcrum]

I dont think it was gms, lace thinks she wants hornet because she feels jealous of hornet being alive through natural means, it seems like the citadel is what wants hornet and its to use her as a source for silk for their "immortality"

[spark valve]

widow says that she's claiming hornet for gms

and other captured weavers were brought to cradle

[woven vine]

Feeling vindicated. I always held the belief that Hornet's silk is spun out of soul. My buddy always told me I was wrong and that it is just natural silk made by spiders.

[edgy stone]

Im assuming lace gets enough from gms at the end of the true ending at least

[limpid helm]

T-t-this s-sentinel must t-t-test your r-resolve

[urban lantern]

yea weaver silk seems to be soul related based on silksong's lore

[woven fulcrum]

gms is asleep for the whole game, and that is made clear on many different occasions

[limpid helm]

Gosh i love the second sentinel sm shes so me

[urban lantern]

second sentinel my beloved

[uncut holly]

I would say that the Haunting in Silksong is way more dangerous than the Infection in Hollowknight just because of how darn good at combat the Haunted people are compared to the Infected

[terse warren]

I'm not sure if it was GMS giving Lace silk, I thought it was her just giving Hornet the silk so she could make a super jump out of the abyss

[edgy stone]

Is that why phantom is also not fully white like her sister? Shes running out of silk compared to lace

[spark valve]

yes

[uncut holly]

Like the people in Greymoor, they have advanced fighting tactics

[terse warren]

Not exactly I think? Journal entry says "she got grey with age" but I suppose it might be both

[young yoke]

The ending with the void phial proves that gms was using silk for her survival

[edgy stone]

Id assume both, otherwise lace would eventually die or more people would have to be subjugated to keep her alive

[limpid helm]

I think a theme of skong might be something like “what does it mean to live” or “what counts as life?”
Between lace, second sentinel, first sinner and the weavers (chased/imprisoned), and the cogwork dancers/green prince (life after grieving your loved one)

[spark valve]

not getting fresh silk

[limpid helm]

Katana zero ahh

[terse warren]

That said, with Hornet's unique condition and all that I'd reckon Lace should probably be fine for the foreseeable future if not eternity

[warm orchid]

This line of thinking kind of implies the entire fall of pharloom and the haunting in general was just an effort to protect her so it somewhat makes sense but also how long has she been around? Lace i mean, she seems relatively recent compared to the subversion/rebellion of the weavers and subsequent exodus to deepnest seems like it happened before lace ever existed so like what reason did they have to not want her as a monarch? Just tyrannical universal subservience/worship prior?

[next ridge]

What I theorize from Silksong: mother silk gives her silk to feral arachnids, creating weavers, she then creates lace, a being made of silk who can’t live forever but deeply loves. And decided weavers were a good way to sustain lace because they create silk. And weavers don’t like being batteries for lace so they try to escape. And I’m guessing at some point mother silk realized that hybrid weavers might be an experiment to try to find a creature whose modified silk can sustain lace forever if not better. So she captures hybrids from other regions and pharloom to use their silk.

This is just a collection from what other people have said

[uncut holly]

I mean GMS was looking for people with the ability to weave silk, it was becoming rarer to find in Pharloom.

[terse warren]

Wdym void phial?

[last lily]

||If I'm sure upgrading the nail to the final level basically confirms that "Daughter of three queens" thing the devs mentioned, any thoughts?||

[edgy stone]

Oh its 100% true

Its shown in the game

[uncut holly]

It would make sense that GMS unless they can produce infinite silk themself which is a bit less likely. Just wanted more people to provide their silk to sustain Lace

[terse warren]

That's not really what confirms it

[young yoke]

Where you suck out lace's void with the phial and the void breaks in so hornet and lace fight her upgraded version

[next ridge]

Her body kinda looks like a spool which is cool

[spark valve]

I mean the hybrids are also just sources of more silk they don't necessarily have to be special

[uncut holly]

Had no idea this existed

[next ridge]

I think hornets is special tho

[uncut holly]

GMS is the Pharloom symbol

[spark valve]

sure hers specifically is special but she's an extraordinary case

[edgy stone]

Yeah I dont think any half breed we've heard about were half god

[terse warren]

It's possible that GMS has a reduced silk output due to having created weavers, and bringing her back was a way to turn up said output

[edgy stone]

They were also a lot weaker

[terse warren]

I have never heard of it

[uncut holly]

I think the main reason GMS wants Hornet is either to "wake" themself. Or to use their silk because for some reason they want more silk weavers in Pharloom

[spark valve]

most of them aren't even half weaver they're like two or three generations down

[edgy stone]

I wonder why gms couldnt make more weavers exactly, was it ever stated?

[uncut holly]

Its said the only weavers of silk around besides GMS themself, is you, Widow, and possibly First Sinner cause their still alive

[spark valve]

they did take a bunch of her silk and bounce

[terse warren]

One thing that kinda confuses me is that one of them is weaver "in 7th part" like how exactly does that happen?

[uncut holly]

In the Seamstresses place they say theres really no silk spinners left in Pharloom and that their in high demand

[spark valve]

I don't remember that but honestly could be a typo lmao

[edgy stone]

The bugs they evolved from are very prevalent in pharloom

[next ridge]

Summary of story in a quote “a mother’s love so deep that it hurts those outside of it.”

[spark valve]

she's now dormant, it's possible she overextended her powers or something

[uncut holly]

Question is how does GMS silk work? Its said alot was sacrificed and done to keep Lace alive, but GMS being the primal source of Silk couldnt they just infinitely provide silk to keep Lace alive

[whole holly]

are there Silkmoths in Game? i thought instead of GMS final boss would be Silkmoth

[spark valve]

wouldn't be the first hb to get weaker for no apparent reason

[uncut holly]

Its also said that Silk is intrinsticly linked to soul

[edgy stone]

Main thing is it seemed like gms was still being heavily worshipped

[uncut holly]

Maybe someone could get the Lace Bestiary entry? To see what it says on maintaining them

[edgy stone]

But so was unn I guess

[limpid summit]

I don’t know about a silk moth but the faydown cloak beast is sort of moth like no connection to silk though

[next ridge]

I see it, she’s weak as fuck in her fight he’s easy

[warm orchid]

1/7th weaver, bloodline is just diluted, hornet is half weaver, hornets child would be a quarter unless she had one with another weaver somehow, etc. Generational dilution. Tbf tho idr a seventh part note, i remember an eighth part tho

[spark valve]

A bug born entirely of thread. Much Silk would have been needed to see her sustained. A fragile form of life, but life nonetheless

[next ridge]

AND she nearly dies pretty quick

[spark valve]

it's more about how you get the 1/7

[terse warren]

Does anyone have a source for this? I don't think I've ever heard about it

[spark valve]

I think it's maybe a bad translation or something

[edgy stone]

If gms is a higher being sustained from worship id feel like shed still be rather strong

[young yoke]

No it's the secret ending of act 3

Go do it yourseld

[uncut holly]

What makes the most sense to me, is that the reason why GMS is going to such length to capture Weavers and anything Weaver adjacent or silk making would be for Lace

[edgy barn]

u cant even use the phial after the quest can u

[spark valve]

you can't

[young yoke]

Yeah but you must not complete it

Like the cursed ending

[uncut holly]

I mean it still leaves questions because GMS seems to be able to make a ton of silk control it, and even make things like the White Ward Conductor boss attack you.

[terse warren]

Do you have a source or a video of this

[young yoke]

I cant record on ps and share it on discord

[edgy barn]

🗿

[edgy stone]

It might not be silk shes creating but silk shes accumulated

[next ridge]

Idk, she nearly died during the fight once. She falls, then comes back. So it’s questionable

[young yoke]

And i have already completed the quest so i need a new save file which i AINT gonna do

[spark valve]

if there was a unique ending the cutscene would've been datamined

[young yoke]

no clue

[edgy stone]

Yeah I do just wonder what made her so weak

Shes by far the most worshipped god

[whole holly]

guys is Greyroot higher being? i know it is not confirmed but let's speculate, i still want speculative answer

[naive cargo]

I love early game rumors, people be making up stuff

[spark valve]

doesn't seem like it

[naive cargo]

Love for the game

[edgy stone]

Unless the citadel itself has kinda trapped her