sk-lore

[lament socket]

sounds like a literacy moment to me, sounds like you didn't read her dialogue saying "yeah i'm gonna go to the caravan now. see you there"

[severe siren]

Genuinely though I do not know
Its likely|| in steel soul ||but at the end of the day TC said more content is planned so its whatever

[spark valve]

That is not remotely relevant to fucking finding her

[lament socket]

finding her is Using Your Eyes

[naive cargo]

they removed sharpe in the official press kit

[spark valve]

This has to be rage bait nobody is this obtuse

[severe siren]

Wait

[foggy fractal]

I should call in mods lowkey this discussion is getting heated 🐺

[severe siren]

Oh no

[lament socket]

you're the one that was too obtuse to find an npc that was barely hidden 😭 😭

[lost lion]

"oh a big thing of spikes that I cant climb and a thing that reels me up through these spikes however do I get up there?"

[lament socket]

this really does sound like you're bad at exploring and blaming TC for it

[spark valve]

Bruh

Insane

[lament socket]

excellent counterpoint

[gleaming minnow]

ngl i think Silksong recontextualizes The Radiance as a character a lot

[smoky prism]

MAJOR ACT 3 SPOILERS BUT NOOOOOOOOOOO

[gleaming minnow]

i don't think The Radiance is 'evil' in a sense

[lost lion]

I mean yeah, it's just pissed that it was forgotten

[spark valve]

Radiance is evil it doesn’t get more evil

[gleaming minnow]

the radiance isn't evil in the same way the void isn't evil

you wouldn't call the void evil for existing

[spark valve]

Nope that’s not the same at all

[cold axle]

poking again

[edgy stone]

Yeah fuck that not doing it

[gleaming minnow]

radiance's crashout was 100% valid

[spark valve]

It was not

[severe siren]

Are the delivery quests infinite btw im pretty sure two of them might be

[cold axle]

does anyone know if i can find any gromlings after the wormways are infested with lifeblood?

[gleaming minnow]

imagine if you've spent literal centuries chilling n then some wyrm fuck comes in, wipes out most of your followers and then tries to erase you

[severe siren]

As in still doable after clearing them

[smoky prism]

what are gromlings

[modern hollow]

wait mr mushroom SINGS TOO?

[naive cargo]

pale king didnt kill the moths

[edgy stone]

Kinda stupid the nail guy charges you money to upgrade

[lament socket]

for real
the radiance is a force of nature
continues its existence by controlling other bugs as thralls, therefore controls bugs by nature
we don't call predators evil for consuming prey, just as they need to do that to continue their existence

[lost lion]

it was? the moths that worshipped it for ages were forced to abandon it and erase all evidence of its existence because of a certain pale wyrm who wants to build a big society, so you infect that society?

[edgy stone]

Dude gets pissed if you dont upgrade the nail but like dude you're charging me money that I do not have

[cold axle]

wormways burrowing babies

[smoky prism]

oh idk

[naive cargo]

the moth just forgot about the radiance and started to worship the pale king...

[gleaming minnow]

he didn't literally killed them but he did kill them 'thematically'

[spark valve]

“I got betrayed so I’m gonna just kill everything now”

[foggy fractal]

I guess we'll have to wait and see the exact requirements for act 3 but it really does seem bs and more convulted then hk
also I don't like how you can't fight grandma silk and get the weaver queen ending after

[spark valve]

Believe it or not murdering everyone indiscriminately is wrong!

[lament socket]

i think you can find them in the weavenest to the left of wormways? same as the falling worms

[smoky prism]

its complete all wishes im 90% sure
which includes all fleas

[severe siren]

I am sad over ||no boss refight option, not even a way to have hornet dream while sleeping in her bellhome which is already meant to be an album of sorts for the whole game||

[gleaming minnow]

is it ever even stated that the infection is a concious thing from the radiance

[spark valve]

It is utter bullshit I’m amazed people are jumping through the bullshit hoops to try to justify it

[edgy stone]

It was all wishes and flea caravan for me

[foggy fractal]

doesn't require every flea

[smoky prism]

it did for me 😭

[lost lion]

believe it or not forced religion is also wrong!

[gleaming minnow]

?

[edgy stone]

The wises felt fine but the flee caravan part is a bit too hard

[spark valve]

He didn’t do that though

[lament socket]

you just need enough fleas to have them move to Fleatopia

[foggy fractal]

yeah see ? different for everyone

[gleaming minnow]

'why can't i get weaver queen if i fufill the conditionals for true ending' this also happens in HK

[severe siren]

I had the mission while i was doing other wishes
I believe the mandatory part is getting caravan to ducts

[gleaming minnow]

why are you going for true ending on first playthrough

[spark valve]

Also whataboutism to defend genocide very cool

[edgy stone]

That's so weird

Duvts is also the worst area in both games bte

[lost lion]

thats literally why the moths abandon the radiance

[edgy stone]

Fucking abysmal dogshit

[smoky prism]

nah its bilewater

[spark valve]

No it’s not

[severe siren]

I hate bilewater more

[edgy stone]

They're just the same

[gleaming minnow]

literally stated by hornet in act 3 that the pale beings demand 'devotion or destruction'

[spark valve]

Bile water has the worst area gimmick

[gleaming minnow]

you dont get a choice

you either bend the knee to your god or it wholly annihilates you

[lament socket]

the runback for that one boss in bilewater existing makes it worse than ducts fr

[spark valve]

Not from the moths from the bugs he fucking mind expanded

And no that’s not remotely accurate to PK’s characterization

[edgy stone]

Do you get a memento for 100% the journal?

I need 3 more

[foggy fractal]

Bilewater is the worst area tc ever conceived in terms of gameplay

[gleaming minnow]

pale king is 100% a horrid dude im not sure where you're going with this

[severe siren]

The ||snail shaman|| retcon is so funny to me
“Nah we dont dabble in allat”
“Oh yeah we’re known to dabble in that”

[lost lion]

ehhhhhhh so so

[foggy fractal]

what is allat

[lost lion]

all of hk is morally ambiguous

[cold axle]

shit fr? i only found the fallers

[spark valve]

HK fan play the game challenge

[foggy fractal]

also what dialogue are you refering to ?

[edgy stone]

I mean they didn't say anything against their revelation in silksong in hk right?

[severe siren]

||Void||

[edgy stone]

I feel like its surely implied throughout hollow knight as well

[lament socket]

they were clearly dabbling, just look at where you get 2/3 of the void spells in HK

[gleaming minnow]

you cannot play HK and not tell me that pale king isn't meant to be written as a bad person

[spark valve]

Snail shaman abyss shriek dialogue in HK directly contradicts their role in silksong

[spark valve]

I can because I did and the game doesn’t characterize him as a bad person

[lost lion]

look the radiance basically had 2 choices, infect bugs to live or die itself, pale king had 2 choices, sacrifice his children or sacrifice his kingdom, both are pretty morally ambiguous in my opinion

[cosmic geyser]

Been thinking about this because I don’t fully understand. Can someone explain what caused the haunting? ||why is grandmother silk the way she is?||

[gleaming minnow]

'no mind to think'
'no voice to cry suffering'

[spark valve]

Murder everything to live or pull the lever on the trolley problem
These are not the same

[gleaming minnow]

she's a pale being and it's in their nature to control it seems

[lament socket]

we can literally get hornet looking at the screen and saying "Pale beings are Bad" and people will still defend the pale king

[spark valve]

Do you not understand the concept of necessary evils

[edgy stone]

I dont think the shaman thing is like a huge recton

[gleaming minnow]

THIS LITERALLY HAPPENS IN ACT 3 BTW

[severe siren]

Im going insane tryna find that damn final rune harp that nobody found yet

[lost lion]

the weavers dying out caused the haunting, implied that they were using GMS for her silk production to create things like the architects, who in turn used it to create more beings, etx etx

[gleaming minnow]

except it wasn't a necessary evil BECAUSE IT DIDNT WORK

[edgy stone]

That dialouge honestly felt more out of place than the supposed retcon

[lament socket]

oh i know, thats why i'm mentioning it

[spark valve]

He didn’t expect it to fail

[foggy fractal]

ig either tc just forgot, retconned or its a wildly different batch of snail shamans ? idk I'm not getting the full picture here what exactly is the contradiction ?

[gleaming minnow]

its like

[cold axle]

what the fuck even is the argument about?

[spark valve]

Do you not understand that the morality of an action is grounded in large part in INTENT

[cosmic geyser]

So nothing really went wrong? They just reached the end of their thread? Interesting.

So ||what’s the deal with the giant cacoon then?||

[gleaming minnow]

in this context
pale king invaded hallownest and proclaimed himself god-king and pushed the radiance out

[spark valve]

He didn’t

[lost lion]

GMS isn't exactly sane?

[gleaming minnow]

radiance is more akin to a force of nature

[lament socket]

"you don't understand, i'm not a bad person for sacrificing millions of my own children and 3 notable figures in hallownest. i didnt do anything wrong"
what happened to not being able to whataboutism a genocide lmao, he genocided his own kids

[spark valve]

This is explicitly contradicted by seer who attributes things to the fucking moths being fickle

[cosmic geyser]

Eh, worth a shot

[spark valve]

Sacrificing his eggs to potentially save the entire kingdom is absolutely justifiable

[cosmic geyser]

[spark valve]

The game doesn’t portray him as a bad person for trying to do this, it’s at worst hubris

[gleaming minnow]

the vessels r still sentient creatures
we're forgetting that right

[lament socket]

the divinity that GMS has seems to corrupt ones mind into one that only exist to propagate and control, as seen by the default ending of silksong
after absorbing her, hornet lost control and silked the whole kingdom

[gleaming minnow]

like thats the entire reason so many of them were discarded

[lost lion]

my interpretation is more the weavers slowly died out in the society they created as it became more independent from them, and they (assumed) resisted the usage of silk to make bugs immortal, which got the pushed out by the society they made.

[spark valve]

Not in the eggs they aren’t and it doesn’t matter

[gleaming minnow]

'you can't whataboutism genocide'

whataboutism's genocide

[lament socket]

"his eggs" THEY HATCHED MF
THEY WERE CONSCIOUS CHILDREN SEEKING SURVIVAL AT THE TOP OF THE ABYSS
THEY ARE CAPABLE OF FEELING LOVE AND AFFECTION AS SEEN BY WHAT MADE THE HOLLOW KNIGHT NOT HOLLOW!!!!

[spark valve]

That’s not remotely what I’m doing

[edgy stone]

I dont think hollow knight shows the king as evil but certainly as a bad person

[spark valve]

They hatched into things he thought were mindless fucking read

[naive cargo]

how was the convo about how rad's crashout was valid because nuance but pale king is 100% at fault for everything

[gleaming minnow]

also the vessels r literally capable of feeling and remembering and loving the true ending ||literally shows the hollow knight and the vessels protecting hornet because they remember their sister||

[spark valve]

Because people are very stupid

[lost lion]

chat I don't think Hollow knight really paints anyone as truly evil, even the radiance gets dialogue about moral ambiguity

[edgy stone]

His actions did kill a lot of people

[naive cargo]

guys the moth tribe betrayed the radiance

[cosmic geyser]

Why we caps locking chat

[foggy fractal]

his portrayal is more somber and tragic then just straight evil me thinks

[gleaming minnow]

i never said 'pale king is at fault for everything' im saying both he and radiance r valid in the actions they took to some capacity

[spark valve]

This is very obviously the case

[gleaming minnow]

radiance is a primal force fighting for it's own survival

[lament socket]

dude is Critical Failing a media literacy check and insisting that we're the ones that are wrong
light crashout over that

[spark valve]

They aren’t remotely in the same boat

[foggy fractal]

thank u tammo i can always count on you

[edgy stone]

Yeah you understand why he did the things he did but it also resulted in some seriously awful things

Like cannibalism in the city of tears

[cosmic geyser]

It’s not about being right or wrong. Everyone’s got their own interpretation.

Most of this is intentionally left ambiguous

[spark valve]

No what I’m saying is not remotely ambiguous

[foggy fractal]

yep, always remember, hollow knight has no lore.

[severe siren]

Well this case its not really ambiguous

[gleaming minnow]

i never stated the pale king was evil btw

[lost lion]

their morality is ambiguous, the facts of the situation are not

[gleaming minnow]

i simply said he was a bad person and absolving him of his sins while considering the radiance worse is stupid because they're both unique situations

[cosmic geyser]

Exactly

[lament socket]

most of it is, yeah
but the fact that the pale king slaughtered 99.9% of his children is not ambiguous whatsoever, and saying he didn't do anything wrong is diabolical

[gleaming minnow]

the radiance was fighting for it's own life and existence

[spark valve]

If you think murdering everyone to ensure your own survival is no worse than sacrificing some eggs to save everyone you’re completely delusional

[lost lion]

this is? literally the point of all carnivorous life?

[gleaming minnow]

||THE VOID LITERALLY REMEMBERS HORNET IN THE TRUE ENDING ALL THE VESSELS SHOW UP AND SAVE HER THEY WERE ALL CONCIOUS LIVING THINGS||

[edgy stone]

Radiance commited her actions out of hatred, pale king commited his actions as desperation

[lost lion]

kill others to survive?

[spark valve]

Most carnivores aren’t explicitly acting out of malice

[edgy stone]

One is inherently evil while one can just be classified as morally bad

[lost lion]

neither is rad?

[cosmic geyser]

Lotta talk about sacrificing bug lives.

I’ll tell ya what chat, I once accidently ate a handful of ants. It sucked. F them bugs.

[spark valve]

Yes she is

[lost lion]

its partially malice yeah, but also survival

[cosmic geyser]

They were at the bottom of a popcorn bowl

[foggy fractal]

yeah F them aracachnids or smth idk spiders

[cosmic geyser]

I took a handful. They stabbed my tongue and tasted real bad

[foggy fractal]

L

[cosmic geyser]

So I spat them out and then committed a violence in retribution.

[lament socket]

oh my god
they weren't some eggs
they were children that hatched and were scattering for survival
sure he didn't know that, but we do know that
if i think you're braindead and try putting you out of your misery but i'm wrong, i'm still an asshole for doing that even if i think i did no wrong

[cosmic geyser]

I think he did know that.

[spark valve]

Him not knowing that MEANS IT ISN’T HIS MORAL FAILING

[cosmic geyser]

He waited at the top of the abyss for one to climb out.

[lament socket]

(this would make him an even worse person)

[cosmic geyser]

He would not have waited otherwise, he was waiting for his hollow knight to climb out.

[gleaming minnow]

the only actually good higher being is unn btw

[cosmic geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/the-climb-dark-knight-rises-why-do-we-fall-gif-11058467299315227416

[lost lion]

also, worth pointing out that every single one of the cuplrits in these genocides views the victims of said genocides as "inferior beings", so similar to humans wiping out some animals, the morality of such a thing, while from the perspective of a lower being, is wrong, from their perspective, its just a byproduct of life.

[limpid summit]

Okay to be fair
Pale King expected that HE would rule HIS kingdom FOREVER, so there was obviously a disconnect; he would have been thinking of infinite generations of Hallownest bugs rather than a finite number of his own eggs

[edgy stone]

I do think its fair to call the pale king bad for the vessels

[lament socket]

guess if i ever see you sleeping i'll be absolved of all sin after snapping your neck, thought you were an unfeeling entity after looking at you for like 10 seconds. which is enough proof to make that decision according to the pale king

[edgy stone]

Its like mad scientist shit

[cosmic geyser]

Bruh

[edgy stone]

He created life that he would not know how it would turn ojt

[spark valve]

See this has to be bait nobody is this stupid

[edgy stone]

Thats morally bad nomatter what

[spark valve]

That’s completely not the same thing

[foggy fractal]

think I should call mods over this lowkey 🤔

[lament socket]

not a threat on him, just an example of "what if it were you. not quite the same situation"

[lost lion]

hmmm i'm just gonna start quoting fallacies soon

[lament socket]

nobody has to be as stupid as you are for this complete failure of media literacy

[spark valve]

This is the second time you’ve specifically suggested killing me but sure whatever

[cosmic geyser]

Pale king sacrificed the few for the many. Y’all can discuss if that’s good or even, but honestly? Move it to #hk-lore

[foggy fractal]

yeah let's discuss Silksong's lore

[spark valve]

<@&283547423706447872> this is getting pretty egregious

[gleaming minnow]

this server is full of geniuses

[lament socket]

because that's what this entire thing is about. this entire thing is about killing people, because that's what the pale king did. this is just a profound failure of media literacy from you

[cosmic geyser]

We could even solve a math problem

[foggy fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/genius-smart-so-many-genius-this-server-has-so-many-geniuses-gif-17960640212511392691

[naive cargo]

Well this was one way to move past Act's 3 pacing

[foggy fractal]

no no

let's circle back

[cosmic geyser]

Act 4: the rise of Zote

[spark valve]

Yes you don’t understand his motivations or how the game frames it or anything I get it that’s very clear go cry about it into a radiance plushie

[lost lion]

quick! whats 4+12, its a bit hard for me but yall are smart enough to do it

[naive cargo]

pulling out the classic Pale king discourse

[cosmic geyser]

412

[lost lion]

mmmm radiance plushie I want one

bet that moth is soft

[gleaming minnow]

me when im losing the arguement so i have to call pale king a war criminal

[foggy fractal]

kept the community fed for 7 years !

[lost lion]

minus the blades

[lost lion]

for real

[gleaming minnow]

but it doesnt matter he's dead and the radiance isn't 0-1 bitch get good

[spark valve]

It’s astonishing how bad it still is

[cosmic geyser]

No discourse too great
No mouth to simp
No will to withhold purchase

[lament socket]

Killing People is bad
the Pale King Killed People
ergo, the Pale King is Bad
the fact that you don't get that even if i try to frame it as "Killing You would be Bad. You don't want to die, right? Therefore, The Person Killing You Would Be Bad."

[naive cargo]

Snail shamans discourse in SHAMBLES

[gleaming minnow]

this was my entire point n then mfers ran with it

[foggy fractal]

💔 🥀

[spark valve]

This is a toddler’s understanding of morality

[gleaming minnow]

pale king n radiance r both bad

[eternal gazelle]

Pale King not showing up in the flashback was the funniest possible outcome

Existentially deadbeat father

[gleaming minnow]

you can't say 'oh trolley problem' he still killed thousands if not tens of thousands

[lost lion]

real shit

[gleaming minnow]

it's still bad lmao

[lost lion]

GMS is a WAY better parent than PK

[spark valve]

You can that is in fact the point of the trolley problem

[foggy fractal]

Snail Shamans Truthers: "Better look elsewhere !"
Void Enjoyers: "Better clock in !"

[gleaming minnow]

necessary evil but it's still bad

[cosmic geyser]

Yeah it’s kinda crazy how uninvolved he was in Hornet’s life

[limpid summit]

Soul Master did nothing wrong

[spark valve]

The moral decision can be bad in a vacuum while still being the greater good

[foggy fractal]

I did nothing wrong too

[gleaming minnow]

lowkey i wish the whiteward had its own boss

[cosmic geyser]

Soul master discourse to save us from pale king discourse

[gleaming minnow]

i wanted some bloodborne shit

[lost lion]

I mean he basically what, fucked herrah, sealed the HK, then hid white palace away

[naive cargo]

tbh I wouldve liked if the shaman lore was handled a bit better

[cosmic geyser]

Clean up your room first

[lament socket]

almost like he's a bad person, which can be seen from multple angles
such as this one, and the more controversial "Killing People Is Bad" angle

[foggy fractal]

it does
its a pretty alright boss nothing too crazy

[lost lion]

no time to deal with silly children

[spark valve]

Because we are not toddlers we understand therefore that characters who do things which in a vacuum might be bad are not necessarily bad people

[naive cargo]

I think it couldve balanced the two non void and weird affinity with void

[gleaming minnow]

the fact the white palace appears in hornet's memories implied she went there to seek him out and he bummed her

[cosmic geyser]

He’s a little short to be a stormtrooper, much less a person

[lost lion]

wait true lmao

[limpid summit]

Soul master discourse is genuinely interesting because either he was always infected and you see him as insane or he was just crazy and became infected after PK told him he couldn’t experiment on bugs

[lament socket]

even outside the "killing people, in general, is wrong" angle - sacrificing the vast, VAST many for the needs of the few is Wrong imo, actually

[lost lion]

side note: Hornet in Pale garment was pretty sick

[spark valve]

That is not what he’s doing

You’re just lying now ok

[lament socket]

that is precisely what he did

[lament socket]

you did NOT play the game dude

[spark valve]

Nope

[cosmic geyser]

I think his whole story is a microcosm of the king he resented

[gleaming minnow]

'yeah sorry dude you can't like kill people n experiment on their souls'
'what'
'yeah it's kinda problematic as the kids say'
'what'

[limpid summit]

Pale King sacrificed the many for the infinite bugs that would live in Hallownest under him forever

[lament socket]

someone take this man's ability to interpret media away
he's using it for evil

[spark valve]

He sacrificed a few for many many more

[lament socket]

actually no he's not using it

[lost lion]

chat can we actually debate GMS instead of PK, this is lowkey just flashbacks to the silksanity

[cosmic geyser]

He wished to break out of the confines to save his people, and basically committed all the same mistakes, but in far less effective and more slapdash manner

[foggy fractal]

lowkey this discussion will probably go on for like another 2 hours I'm going to bed

[gleaming minnow]

grand mother silk did nothing wrong

[edgy stone]

Is there a guide for all the mementos?

[gleaming minnow]

thats my agenda if the weavers didnt want shit happening they would've done better

[limpid summit]

Thats not a bad interpretation

[lost lion]

real talk I might do the same if it doesn't get interesting

[spark valve]

There are not more vessels than the entire kingdom’s population plus the infinite generations to come

[lament socket]

you really just didn't play the game man

[cosmic geyser]

Wait so she’s a grand mother or a grandmother

Which one is it

[lament socket]

Grand Mother
there's a space

[gleaming minnow]

i think it's read as 'Grand Mother Silk'

[lost lion]

Grand Mother

[lament socket]

calling her grandma silk is funny though

[cosmic geyser]

So is she a grand mother

[spark valve]

This is just evidently true and you can cry about it all you want I’m not giving the bullshit more air

[lost lion]

title, not relation

[foggy fractal]

yeah she's not really a grandmother to anyone just a mother to lace

[cosmic geyser]

The first flashback when you get the needlion seems to imply she was born of the weaver’s ways

[lost lion]

I just like how she looked like the moon in the cocoon, made me say "what are we gonna fight the moon"

[cosmic geyser]

Like they sung her into existence

[spark valve]

It’s not grandmother it’s grand mother

[gleaming minnow]

my personal HC for soul master is the radiance wormed its way into his ear and convinced him he could become immortal with SOUL

[lament socket]

cool, i didn't wanna hear from you anymore as anything coming from you has just been baffling me with the worst lore takes known to man
i pray that you never try to interpret a piece of media ever again

[foggy fractal]

yes

[gleaming minnow]

similar to how the bugs of pharloom tried to become immortal with silk

[gleaming minnow]

basically the first pin down of the eventual collapse of hallownest

[cosmic geyser]

Personally I think he was just a pompous a hole who thought he knew better. His voice lines give that sense of arrogance

[lost lion]

and she's a Grand mother to lace, self sacrifice to save lace's life made her good in my book

[foggy fractal]

speaking of how did you like her fight ?

[cosmic geyser]

Her fight is sick

[spark valve]

It’s fun but easy

[foggy fractal]

yeah its pretty easy

[cosmic geyser]

Kinda like the hollow knight was

[lost lion]

easy but punishing, the 3 mask attacks made it interesting

[modern hollow]

yk playing through silksong made me realize how insane the randomizer would be in pharloom

[foggy fractal]

now how aobut Lost Lace 🐺

[woven fox]

fr i feel like she should've done 3 hearts but oh well, maybe they'll give her an absrad

[cosmic geyser]

Oh god

[modern hollow]

wait wrong channel

[lost lion]

hoo boy

[spark valve]

Fun and less easy

[foggy fractal]

cool cool

[lost lion]

lost lace was hard for me until I just randomly locked in like 3 hours into trying to fight her

[spark valve]

Though making the final boss on the skeleton of something you’ve done twice before was a choice

[gleaming minnow]

the DN dialogue implies the radiance

[cosmic geyser]

I wonder how long act 3 speedruns would take

[lament socket]

i can't even imagine the amount of seeding that would need to be done to make sure the game is still possible

[gleaming minnow]

this is for soul tyrant specifically

[foggy fractal]

I do have some gripes with the game but the art, music and some of the bosses are really top notch

[cosmic geyser]

Oooooh I never saw these!

[lost lion]

I mean Lace is kinda a parallel to hornet in the first game

[cosmic geyser]

Dream nail was so hard to use compared to the needlion

[woven fox]

getting all the reqs for true ending lol

[spark valve]

The gripes are mostly with the economy and how badly signposted a lot of stuff is

[modern hollow]

either that or the amount of platforms in places

[gleaming minnow]

i play with Hallownest Vocalized on so the dream nail dialogue for dreamer bosses plays as certain parts of their fights

[modern hollow]

considering what we know its just all fleas for the most part

[spark valve]

And crest balance kind of sucks

[lost lion]

the economy was pretty shit im not gonna lie

[cosmic geyser]

Personally my main gripe was I-frame issues

[gleaming minnow]

this is the onle reason ik about this dialogue btw

[cosmic geyser]

They feel way too low sometimes compared to Hk

[gleaming minnow]

because imagine trying to dream nail fucking soul tyrant

i dont even think its possible unless you stun him with a pogo bounce

and knock him to the floor when he's wheezing

[modern hollow]

the charge attack you could pull off

[limpid summit]

My gripe is that team cherry saw the useless, hard to get to, drivel spouting NPC that is Mask Maker and made a harder to get to, more useless, worse Mask Maker

[foggy fractal]

TRUE I wish they actually made a new sprites and ai instead of just reusing her a third time with a few new moves

[lost lion]

I think crest choice might affect that? that or it was just placebo on my part but some felt like less I-frames than others

[limpid summit]

We didn’t need another mask maker

[woven fox]

most gripes i feel are just kinda nothing like "too much backtracking" or "two hearts of damage" which imo either aren't that bad or makes the game feel better to play

[cold axle]

brother it's a little optional lore thing in the game full of little optional lore things

[cosmic geyser]

Nope!

[gleaming minnow]

wait by final boss do you need grand mother silk

[cold axle]

calm the fuck down

[limpid summit]

I hate mask maker

[gleaming minnow]

because her fight was literally just radiance but toned down lmao

[spark valve]

The fast travel infrastructure definitely isn’t the best

[foggy fractal]

🐺 theres also gripes with the story

[cold axle]

congrats, hate something more sane to hate

[gleaming minnow]

genuinely she has like 4 attacks

[naive cargo]

im ready for SEVEN more years of folks saying everyone has a physical mask they can casually take off

[spark valve]

Take a shot every time you fast travel to bellway

[foggy fractal]

also this

[cosmic geyser]

It’s day 4 man

[gleaming minnow]

i liked the story in arc 3 but the actual main plot leading up to GMS was kinda ass

[modern hollow]

grandmother silk feels more like the hollow knight bossfight than the radiance boss in terms of where it is in progression

[limpid summit]

“It sees the face beneath! Or is it just another mask?” No dude

[modern hollow]

cuz silk is used as a gateway to the true ending boss

[cold axle]

that's because she is, basically

[gleaming minnow]

r mfers saying hornet has a mask again

[foggy fractal]

hey people are fast
I've literally done nothing else besides silksong (even though I have hw lmao)
I have 50 hours on silksong rn

[modern hollow]

its just a bit different form what we are used to cuz silk is a hiogher being thats been weakened to hell

[woven fox]

seven more years then they'll make lace playable trust

[woven fox]

then they'll make a hollow knight gacha game

[gleaming minnow]

isn't it confirmed that masks r more a hallownest thing?

[cosmic geyser]

Do your homework bruv

[spark imp]

This started from a ss lore discussion 😭?

[spark valve]

Idk

[cosmic geyser]

Always does

[gleaming minnow]

pale king discourse

[spark valve]

Masks aren’t really a thing in Hallownest

[modern hollow]

there is a mask maker by mount fay you can encounter

[lost lion]

I disagree, probably just depends on what you were expecting, I personally liked the story and felt that the characters werent super flat

[gleaming minnow]

yeah ik

[cosmic geyser]

No mod count too great

[modern hollow]

so its prolly not just limited to hallownest

[foggy fractal]

hey hw can wait I've waited so long for silksong ever since 2019 !!

[lost lion]

fr

[gleaming minnow]

'mask fragments' and hornet doesn't have a mask

[woven fox]

another mask maker for a kingdom that doesn't wear masks

[gleaming minnow]

like that white part of her is her actual shell given to her by being a pale being

[spark valve]

The knight doesn’t wear a mask either

[lost lion]

literally doing some hw as I argue in here

[gleaming minnow]

eh

[spark imp]

@lament socket you gotta chill on the things you say. Alright? There's no reason to be calling names.

[spark valve]

The ancient masks are just talismans

[gleaming minnow]

i'd argue the vessels wear masks in the loosest sense of the term

[modern hollow]

thats honestly how i interepreted it like runes that boost the durability of something

[gleaming minnow]

the mask is literally a vessel for Void Given Form

[spark valve]

The shells are very much a part of them

[lost lion]

their mask is the shell of the bug they once were

[spark imp]

Hoping you all have a respectful lore discussion 🙏

[foggy fractal]

Tammo whats your rating for silksong as a whole so far I'm going to sleep

[white panther]

without much spoilers please but do we have any clear indication if the game is a sequel or prequel?

[lost lion]

thank ya

[modern hollow]

it was confirmed by team cherry to be a sequel

[gleaming minnow]

i can't wait for Hollow Knight 3 where we play as a younger Shakra journeying to Pharloom

[spark valve]

Uh probably like a 7 or 8

[foggy fractal]

cool cool ok gn

[naive cargo]

as clear as a window

[woven fox]

it's definirely a sequel

[lost lion]

i'd rather a playable lace

[lament socket]

understandable
i still don't think the "If I killed You, a Conscious Person, that would make me a Bad Person, just like the Pale King would be a bad person for killing millions of his own Conscious Children" is too bad because it was relevant, but i can see how that would be taken badly

[gleaming minnow]

one of the endings very clearly shows its a sequel

[naive cargo]

haha

get it cause my name is window

[gleaming minnow]

wouldn't be possible i feel

[spark valve]

Every ending shows that

[lost lion]

yeah you literally see ||the shade lord||

[modern hollow]

they did say without much spoilers

[limpid summit]

Hornet says “even gods fall” way before any ending

I don’t think she’s talking about PK

[lost lion]

she def is lmao

[woven fox]

tbh i can see a lace DLC for silksong similar to what silksong was supposed to be because she'd probably have similar mechanics to hornet

[spark valve]

It was never going to be a prequel

[lament socket]

look inside reply to a message chain saying "without much spoilers"
receive "much spoilers"

[gleaming minnow]

you see both ||Void Given Form/Shade Lord and Void Given Focus||

[limpid summit]

Radiance?

[gleaming minnow]

remember when mfers were theorizing pharloom was just far future hallownest

[lost lion]

ah sorry lemme spoiler tag

[spark valve]

Probably both

[gleaming minnow]

lowkey i did almost cry at this part of the ending

[modern hollow]

yk that is kinda funny cuz the only reason hallownest lacked too much metallurgy was cuz of the lack of lava everywhere

[naive cargo]

far future aspect can still work

given hornet is like a demigod

[spark valve]

She’s from the land of gods gods dying is pedestrian there

[lost lion]

nah its just Phar away ;)

[spark imp]

Yea so... I am not familiar with lore 💀 I just play the game. I didn't take that in the wrong way but some of the other things. Altho yea, continue on with your discussion just with a little more respect!

[limpid summit]

Or it is a prequel and she’s talking about the gods of thunder and rain

[gleaming minnow]

SS is probably set atleast centuries after hollow knight if we're being honest

[modern hollow]

yk a game based on that area would be pretty cool to see

[gleaming minnow]

heck hornet is probably centuries old in HK

[lost lion]

its not a prequel.

[gleaming minnow]

hallownest is literally a crumbling ruin and she was alive at its peak

[spark valve]

I don’t think she knows about them or that they’re actual gods

[limpid summit]

Duh

[lament socket]

she does mention her long lifespan in at least one journal entry
very possible that it's hundreds of years in the future

[brittle wren]

tammo already in silksong lore...

[woven fox]

probably the oldest character apart from maybe silk lol

[gleaming minnow]

hornet would have also seen a god be killed outside of the PK lmao
dream no more remember

[spark valve]

I finished the game so

[lost lion]

seen a lotta gods die if its godmaster

[gleaming minnow]

it's funny that

[brittle wren]

what did tammo think of the story ‼️

[gleaming minnow]

unironically silksong both canonizes embrace the void and dream no more because hornet sees both ||Shade Lord and Void Given Focus||

[naive cargo]

Nobody really knows if pale king actually died if we're being honest

in the game I mean

[limpid summit]

I didn’t want to believe that Herrah was retconned into being a Weaver but hornet said some shit about lineage

[lost lion]

what?

[brittle wren]

it was already canon

[gleaming minnow]

herrah was always a weaver what

[severe siren]

@foggy fractal found the third rune harp

[limpid summit]

Herrah was a spider from Hallownest

[spark valve]

Lot of lame stuff but it was… fine.

[lost lion]

yknow what i'm not responding to that actually I don't wanna talk about pk again

[gleaming minnow]

herrah most likely wasn't originally from pharloom

[severe siren]

I now got every relic

[gleaming minnow]

the hallownest weavers r probably descended from the pharloom weavers who left

[woven fox]

||the shade lord could just be an entity that exists in the void and was drawn out in godhome ending instead of being created during it tbh||

[brittle wren]

if u mean that it makes it universally canon then it doesnt

[lament socket]

spiders and weavers are pretty closely connected
looking at herrah's mask compared to the weavers' alone, pretty hard to deny that she was connected to the weavers

[limpid summit]

Midwife isn’t a weaver

[modern hollow]

do we know if the haunting was before or after the infection by the radiance

[gleaming minnow]

do you mean ||Void Given Focus? Shade Lord is the form The Knight takes during Dream No More and is explicitly shown in Sister of the Void||

[spark valve]

The void behavior in silksong isn’t actually a retcon really though the pivot was… whatever

[lament socket]

midwife's is different from herrah's & the weavers'

[limpid summit]

The Hallownest spider tribe was already sort of the most barebones of the civilizations with a lot of stuff unanswered and they just took that and added it to the weavers

[gleaming minnow]

wdym?

[brittle wren]

including void at all is a little crazy

[limpid summit]

But they couldn’t even let the weavers make her needle

Oh no Vespa had to

I love three queens I love three queens

[lost lion]

that was already implied in hk though

[spark valve]

It’s consistent with what void does in the first game which is copy other magic, in silksong it starts copying and adhering to and subsuming the threads spreading throughout the kingdom

[brittle wren]

it wasnt

[woven fox]

How do the ||knight and shade lord show up in the true ending in SS then or does he just split into himself and the other vessels or something?||

[limpid summit]

Vespa stuff is a retcon

It’s not the worst one in the world but it is one

[modern hollow]

plus since grandmother silks thread was all over pharloom as she was dragged into the void its very reasonable to interpret the void also clinging onto those threads as well

[gleaming minnow]

Void Given Focus/god of gods/Shade Lord is most likely an actual void entity
lord of Shades/The Knight are the manifestation of the knight's own concious

[lost lion]

wasn't it? iirc there was something about the daughter of 3 queens long before silksong, maybe Wanderers journal?

[spark valve]

We see that it was doing that

[gleaming minnow]

note that in the true ending, only ||The Knight shows up, but hornet has a memory flash to the god of gods/shade lord aswell||

[modern hollow]

yea during the cutscene

[limpid summit]

It was an original thing TC wanted to do but they couldn’t make it work

[spark valve]

You can see it in the threads throughout the kingdom in act 3

[brittle wren]

the wanders journal only suggests it couldnt have been the case

[gleaming minnow]

||all of the children of the void show up||

[spark valve]

It’s everywhere

[brittle wren]

TC wanted to do it originally and ;later said it might not be true anymore

[limpid summit]

The WJ hive stuff iirc is that it was “unmarred” by the infection in the sense that it’s a similar hive mind

[spark valve]

And it also accounts for the weird interactions void has with pharloom’s bugs more or less

[limpid summit]

Otherwise just basic hive stuff

[naive cargo]

lowkey with eva I just assume weavers do weird things to make another creature "psudo" weaver

[woven fox]

ahh ok that clears things up

[limpid summit]

That would be sort of interesting actually

[spark valve]

Eva seems to have more in common with the soul sanctum lore tablets

[lost lion]

honestly i'm happy about it, having more confirmed lore for HK made me happy, I wasn't particularly partial to anything that wasn't objective so my feelings were not hurt by any of the descisions made in silksong

[woven fox]

i thought it was a reddit ama? even then it seems that it's probably canon now

[lost lion]

yeah I kinda got the vibe of soul from eva

[spark valve]

Well she’s made of the weavers’ silk which is infused with soul

[limpid summit]

I still like Vespa dreamer theory but now it makes less sense if she just up and made the needle

[brittle wren]

if ur talking abt what i was, the WJ says early in PK spreading his influence, some rejected his rule and seperated themselves from him, one of those groups being the hive

[gleaming minnow]

||Void Given Focus|| shows up for literally only like 0.5 seconds of the actual ending

[lost lion]

that one frame brought me inexaustible happiness

[gleaming minnow]

||but the actual entity that appears is DMN Knight/Lord of Shades||

[woven fox]

oh i thought he actually appears, not like a flashback or something

[spark valve]

They’re different forms of the same thing but yes the cutscene is strange

[brittle wren]

wait is ts ending worse than etv?!

[spark valve]

They probably just wanted to have ambiguity between which HK ending happened

[lost lion]

probably left that way to not completelyt canonize a TE

[spark valve]

No it’s not worse than EtV

[lost lion]

my thoughts exactly

[spark valve]

EtV is like a lot worse

[brittle wren]

theyre all canon regardless. mentioning an ending doesnt make it universally canon

[naive cargo]

but is it worse that Pantheon 4 cutscene

[limpid summit]

Then they put a walking THK in Silksong DLC and quell all that

[gleaming minnow]

Embrace The Void is genuinely the worst ending in HK

[spark valve]

EtV is one of the worst endings to anything I can think of

[gleaming minnow]

unless you get the delicate flower

[lost lion]

i'm not particularly unhappy about some of the endings being confirmed non-canon

since they were the boring ones anyways

[brittle wren]

theyre all still canon

[modern hollow]

i mean to be fair how would sealed siblings be canon anyways

[gleaming minnow]

it's basically the same as ||the ending of act 2 into act 3 where hallownest will literally be consumed by the void and dragged into the abyss||

[limpid summit]

You could really still argue them away as canon but like Silksong can’t take place after them which like whatever

Who really cared about sealed siblings

[spark valve]

That probably won’t happen

[gleaming minnow]

all endings r canon but only a few endings r canon to Silksong

easiest way to say it

[limpid summit]

As far as we know yeah

[spark valve]

EtV is very minimally different from dream no more

[brittle wren]

ppl acting like player-relative canon is a new idea for tc........

[gleaming minnow]

it really isn't because EtV has the void literally surge out of the godseeker and begin corrupting shit

[lost lion]

oh you mean from a story perspective? yeah weakest by far lmao. Dreamers? who needs those

[limpid summit]

Etv is so weird

[spark valve]

Except it doesn’t do that, it just surges out which it does in dnm too

[lost lion]

not if the flower

[spark valve]

The worst part is not facing THK

[limpid summit]

Technically yeah you don’t even have to kill the dreamers but TC definitely didn’t expect people to just run back out of Uumuu and WK

[gleaming minnow]

DNM literally shows all the shades returning to the abyss i think it's implied the void fucked off

[spark valve]

The knight is still in control in embrace the void, Godseeker mode even happens after it

[limpid summit]

Then there’s White Defender which is normally Dreamer locked

[spark valve]

As will happen in EtV too (which the ambiguity between dnm and EtV relative to silksong’s ending supports further)

[gleaming minnow]

The Void is less of an actively malicious thing and moreso something that roils up when you disturb it which is why it was lashing out in act 3

[spark valve]

Yes

[gleaming minnow]

also i like the reveal that The Abyss is just something that exists under the entire world

'yeah if you dig down far enough you fall into the darkness'

[edgy stone]

I do too

[gleaming minnow]

i think thats funny

[limpid summit]

What’s up with the faydown cloak beast

[edgy stone]

Big ass oil deposit

[lost lion]

anyways I must be off, I have class in the morning unfortunately, bit of a rough night in the lore channel but glad we're getting along now, see yall

[limpid summit]

We ever see that thing again

[brittle wren]

TC has to be trying to come up with the stupidest stuff 🙏

[gleaming minnow]

it reminds me of the moths a lot

[spark valve]

People like to bring this up a lot it doesn’t matter when you fight the waking versions you attune the dream ones too

[gleaming minnow]

also the widow cutscene
feels like radiance bait

'her light' is such a specific line

[limpid summit]

The people yearn for canon Eternal Ordeal

[spark valve]

Don’t even start

[gleaming minnow]

i can't wait for Elden Ring Silksong Shadow of the Erdtree Godhome Webhouse and we fight Radahn The Radiance again

[limpid summit]

Woah woah tammo

I have no Quirrel with you

[spark valve]

👴

[naive cargo]

Godmaster showed the cracks we shouldve listened

[brittle wren]

is mr mushroom different? or can hornet understand him by default

[spark valve]

Godmaster lore is overhated

[warped coyote]

chicken 👍

[limpid summit]

Godmaster LORE didn’t need to exist

[spark valve]

She can understand him by default

And read the tablet which is also a shroom tablet

[brittle wren]

wtf 😭

[gleaming minnow]

godhome threw a thermobriac nuke into the lore and said 'good luck! no new lore for 7 years!'

[limpid summit]

Best piece of godmaster lore is that Fluke Hermit will become the new Flukemarm

[spark valve]

Godmaster was insular and didn’t really change anything

[limpid summit]

Everything else we could do without

[brittle wren]

is there an explanation for that surely it shouldnt be an inherent ability

[limpid summit]

Wow godly focus made radiance stronger godly focus made TK stronger oooo

[spark valve]

No

[limpid summit]

She’s learned idk

[spark valve]

And now they punch each other

[gleaming minnow]

ngl

[naive cargo]

Hornet knows a lot of languages besides the ant language for that one ant npc

[gleaming minnow]

i want modders to mod in hornet to hk and vice versa

'can you beat the game with their respective movement abilities'

[limpid summit]

It’ll totally be done

Like

[gleaming minnow]

dream nail and needolin r considered the same for purposes of this

[limpid summit]

Eventually

[spark valve]

Hornet could beat HK I don’t think the knight could beat ss

[vague jasper]

Hrk grah ran hah

[spark valve]

At least not without glitches

[vague jasper]

Knight is stronger

[gleaming minnow]

for the sake of actually being beatable, the dream nail serves the purpose of the needolin

[vague jasper]

Lore wise

[spark valve]

This is in the context of a hypothetical mod

[gleaming minnow]

hornet doesn't get the shade cloak though

[spark valve]

She has the iframe dash skill

[limpid summit]

Would you say it’s more of a platforming thing or like TK doesn’t inherently have the skills

[gleaming minnow]

the knight can't get true ending (cant soar)

but they can still beat the game

[spark valve]

TK has no super jump or grapple, cheart could maybe get around grapple for some things but there’s no jump alternative

[vague jasper]

Hornet been beaten before by the knight

[spark valve]

Sure it could get ending 1

Well

[limpid summit]

She went easy on it

[spark valve]

Dunno if it could get to high halls

[gleaming minnow]

you technically can't get ending 1 without grapple but also the knight has some tech

[limpid summit]

At least the first time

[gleaming minnow]

shade bouncing

[raven condor]

How much can we get into spoilers here?

[spark valve]

It would depend on if cheart suffices

[limpid summit]

All bets are off firelord

[spark valve]

Infinitely

[vague jasper]

Hornet cant beat radiance

Or traitor lord

[gleaming minnow]

hornet dies against hollow knight

[raven condor]

The ||flashback cutscene|| was fucking bonkers

[limpid summit]

I mean post void heart TK could just bring a puddle of void with it and have it replicate infinitely

[spark valve]

Hornet could do those fights by using the dash and hoarding silk

[limpid summit]

It would take a while but you know

[edgy stone]

I think its a verticality issue

Knight just cant get high enough in a lot of aread

[gleaming minnow]

no you dont understand hornet canonically cannot beat hollow knight
therefore, she can't win...

[spark valve]

You can basically play ss with the knight’s attacks

[vague jasper]

I think he can use diamond dash to go vertically high aswell, just can't do that in the game

[spark valve]

If you want to do that… for some reason

[gleaming minnow]

this is my agenda

[naive cargo]

Red memory actually destroyed my doubter stocks for "Three queen theory probably didnt make it in"

[spark valve]

It is very silly

[limpid summit]

Sprinting Hornet would mid diff HK but Abyss Shriek Knight would low diff Silksong

[naive cargo]

and has the gaul to KILL SHARPE and my OLD KING of deepenest sighhhhh

[gleaming minnow]

regardless the only actually hard part for the knight is getting to the top of cogwork core and clearing high hall

[spark valve]

And fucking coral area

[limpid summit]

Raised by three queens and NO kings

[spark valve]

They cut the fucking coral area

[limpid summit]

What if the Sire of Deepnest was the Dreamer

[vague jasper]

The real question is, can TK beat savage beastfly

[naive cargo]

I was waiting for trilobite and crab lore

[limpid summit]

If he didn’t die he totally would have been

[gleaming minnow]

anyway im gonna go do other shit now uhh shakra x hornet agenda

[limpid summit]

PK didn’t want a kid

[gleaming minnow]

anyway chat my new funniest theory

the only reaosn the abyss (and the knight/shade lord) appears is so they could still call it 'Hollow Knight'

[limpid summit]

I’m expecting a DLC with some sort of ancestral Deepnest memory a la weathered mask

[edgy stone]

No trilobite lore is funny

[severe siren]

It got demoted to subarea 🥀
And barnacle bay is MIA 🥀 🥀 🥀

[gleaming minnow]

'see look guys he shows up'

coral area?

[edgy stone]

Im assuming the steel assasins sre in steel soul mode?

[gleaming minnow]

i wasn't a member of the silksanity fill me in

ik the coral tower but was there meant to be more

[severe siren]

Im not upset though because we have upcoming content

[edgy stone]

They're not just gone from the game right

[spark valve]

In the first trailer there was a whole coral area not just the tower

And in edge

[severe siren]

🐌

[spark valve]

It looks like the coral area got turned into blasted steps

[edgy stone]

There was a bit more to the ant area too right?

[naive cargo]

I dont think so LMAO she has no relation to that dead prehistoric thing

[frigid hamlet]

Barnacle bay

[limpid summit]

So Sharpe isn’t somehow Steel Soul exclusive right

[spark valve]

If he’s in the game he is

[limpid summit]

Has no one found him yet at all??

[spark valve]

Fool has 100%

[severe siren]

The assassins are not present at all in the basegame as someone with 100% save file and every minor thing done minus hunters journal and 3 mementos

[spark valve]

He’s not in it

[naive cargo]

Press kit removed sharpe promo material

[limpid summit]

Never making press headcanons again I thought Sharpe would be some kind of regular

Steel Fraud

[severe siren]

If theyre in, theyre in steel soul

[spark valve]

Now the steel soul achievement does have the image of one of his companions

[naive cargo]

It looked like lace lowkey

[severe siren]

Yeah achievement icon is the flying metal thing

And they love adding random steel npcs in steel soul anyhow like jinn so i aint too shocked if that were the case

[limpid summit]

Order was so anathema to Jinn’s masters that they took themselves and their lackeys out of the game

[severe siren]

Although i really thought sharpe was gonna be extremely important considering you know he existed before the release of HK

[spark valve]

It would suck if they were in steel soul for so many reasons but that may just be where we are

[severe siren]

And the way they worded him in the article sounded important

[naive cargo]

sadly I have to make the "potential man" image but for steel lore before someone does

[spark valve]

Yeah that old dev map showed a room where you like fought assassins alongside hornet

[naive cargo]

its my cross to bear

[spark valve]

Described as a major rival

[severe siren]

If hes not in steel soul he’ll come in future content alongside barnacle bay and refighting bosses

[spark valve]

Barnacle bay might be gone

[edgy stone]

Is there any lore around nyleth really

[severe siren]

Barnacle bay*** IS*** gone

[spark valve]

Nyleth looks to be the same species as Isma

[edgy stone]

Zhes by far the worst out of the 3 hearts we need to collect

[severe siren]

i love nyleth

[limpid summit]

So Greyroot

[severe siren]

I loved the grapple in fights already but nyleth capitalizes on that further

[limpid summit]

What do we think

[spark valve]

We don’t talk about greyroot

What the fuck even is a witch in the context of HK

[limpid summit]

Tammo you know I’ve always hoped that “one of Them” was Roots and not HBs

Yeah neither make sense

[spark valve]

I think it strains belief that she and WL could be the same type of being and one is a god and one isn’t

[severe siren]

They really added gambling but no fishing
Every good game has both

[dense sigil]

||This game just confirmed the 3 mothers theory.||

[spark valve]

Also hornet doesn’t like comment on it which seems weird if that was the intent

[modern hollow]

am i the only one who goes back to the bellhome and listens to the ambience

[honest bane]

can someone who beat the final boss of act 2 with ||the true ending|| explain what happened exactly?

[limpid summit]

WL is not a god
WL does NOT have growth powers
We DON’T talk about queen’s gardens flowers or the mantis traitors

[limpid summit]

For better or worse

[dense sigil]

For better lmao

||Red Memory||

[severe siren]

Godhome jumpscare 👹

[severe rose]

I still have to decorate mine

[spark valve]

The shamans made a trap. That trap teleported grand mother silk into the void. The void loves subsuming magic and it gained access to her entire network of threads and started goin off

[edgy stone]

Shamans are kinda just assholes

[spark valve]

So now there are threads of void all over the place

[spark valve]

They probably didn’t mean to do that

[honest bane]

I see, what about ||mother silk|| she a good or bad character, or just a forced ruler

[errant carbon]

i dont think they totally meant to do that

[spark valve]

They meant to trap her in the void they didn’t mean to unleash everything that came after

[limpid summit]

You know what

[errant carbon]

yeah

[limpid summit]

Maybe the Twisted Bud is what happens when Roots undergo asexual reproduction

Is that why WL needs to breed

Imagine having that

[severe siren]

Someone give wl the twisted bud itd be funny i think

[spark valve]

Her motivations don’t seem entirely selfish, she seems to care about lace at least

[severe rose]

So I'm new to the lore discussion and still don't know about the secret endings but this is a sequel right

[spark valve]

It’s a sequel yes

[severe siren]

Undoubtedly

[errant carbon]

because its her child

[limpid summit]

Her blind ass won’t know what the hell it is

[severe rose]

First thing that tipped me off was the conversation with lace upon reaching the citadel

I'm assuming the god hornet talked about was the radiance?

[spark valve]

Yes, gods caring about their children is hardly a certainty

[spark valve]

And pk

[edgy stone]

Even if they didnt they were just kinda dicks about it

[blissful harbor]

greyroot just shows us why WL bound herself
so she wouldn’t go around doing that shit to ppl

[modern hollow]

yk i just reaized the fleamasters eyes are actually its moustache 😭

[edgy stone]

Like oh yeah we did what you asked, we arent gonna help anyone were gonna go fuck off in a cabe

[spark valve]

They do help when given an actual opportunity to

[severe rose]

Yea I had to double take the first time I saw the fella

[spark valve]

They give their lives to do so

[modern hollow]

to be fair the other flea guy has similar eyes

[edgy stone]

Idk man I aint hear one damn my bad from any of their mouths

[errant carbon]

the thing im curious about is how gms feels about her other child the phantom

[limpid summit]

Traitor Lord was protecting Hallownest all this time from WL’s twisted buds

[errant carbon]

clearly got rid of it but

[severe siren]

No boss refight feature day 1 is criminal when all the bosses are miles better or more interesting than HK’s

[spark valve]

Yeah idk

[edgy stone]

Eve is akin tk phantom right?

[limpid summit]

I for one relished the chance to refight the Savage Beastfly on lava

[spark valve]

Would love to fight first sinner some more

[edgy stone]

But weaver made

[limpid summit]

Eh

Eva is an attempt at an artificial higher being

[severe siren]

I love|| crust king khann||
Easy yes but that fight had such a good flow

Good vibe

[spark valve]

I also killed karmelita on a fluke super fast I did not earn it 😭

[severe siren]

They didnt add boss refights cause they’re totally implementing voided-up bosses a la Deep of Night

[spark valve]

Oh god

[limpid summit]

Maybe Greyroot is a parasitic Root-convergent species like grub mimics

[edgy stone]

Karmelita was the hardest heart boss for me

[limpid summit]

I dunno man anything for WL

[edgy stone]

The other 2 were more gimmicky than anything else but good fights none the less

[severe siren]

Savage beastfly lava edition killed me more than anything

Like every boss hasnt killed me more

[severe rose]

This was a bit of a pain

[spark valve]

She could be a related species to wl I just can’t see them being the same

[limpid summit]

Savage beastfly had no reason to be so bullshit

[naive cargo]

Like humans and apes

[limpid summit]

And it’s not like there’s not super fun bosses

[limpid summit]

Which one’s the human

[spark valve]

WL

[naive cargo]

probably the god like one

[limpid summit]

You sure

[spark valve]

I did that so late I think I had rune rage lmao

[severe siren]

Even the most gimmicky bosses are at least interesting in their own ways like ||father of the flame||

[naive cargo]

you can cheese the lava varient, its so free

[spark valve]

I did not care for father of the flame one bit

[severe siren]

Bed of chaos

[spark valve]

Any fight you can unlock rune rage prior to is free

[severe siren]

Tree of men s&s

[frigid hamlet]

Predict

[edgy stone]

Is rune rage good

I never once used it

[magic hemlock]

does anyone know what are the best build for every crest in the game?

[naive cargo]

its good but I forget to heal or bind

which is the core point

[limpid summit]

What was the point of Hornet’s pale robes in the memory anyway

[spark valve]

Rune rage is stupid powerful and has a range of basically the whole screen

[limpid summit]

Crack theory

[naive cargo]

white palace had a dress code

[limpid summit]

Hornet has vestigial wings just like the Vessels

White Lady grew them for the occasion

[severe siren]

Even the more general boss music is straight fire
The one shared by ||ass jim, frog, broodmother, crowfather|| 🔥

[spark valve]

I do wish there was more about the fayforn

[edgy stone]

Ass jim was not a jim

[limpid summit]

How did we get that name again

[spark valve]

Joke

[limpid summit]

Wonder how long it’ll take for the file names to come out

[severe siren]

I cant believe they cut Lömm the Poop Snail

[spark valve]

I’m sure you could just go look now

[limpid summit]

The poop snail isn’t in SS???

[spark valve]

Barnacle area is fucking GONE

[limpid summit]

Genuinely worse than the cut giant spider

[severe siren]

Nah they definitely saving it for an update
Ari said he wouldnt cut any concepts he had when drawing cause they’re cool

[spark valve]

Got taken out back and silk speared

[severe siren]

Yeah barnacle area sadly doesn’t exist

[spark valve]

SS has some actually painful cuts

[severe siren]

May get added later on

[limpid summit]

Best we can do is another Grimm Troupe DLC

I don’t think they could do it could they

Feasibly unless they make the Needolin the equivalent as they sort of have

[spark valve]

I was so ready to uninstall the game when I got into red memory if I saw a fucking hint of red fire

[naive cargo]

yeah but he drew Masters stuff and the coral/barnacle stuff on a napkin

[limpid summit]

Is song dialogue the DN dialogue

[naive cargo]

yeah

[limpid summit]

Success then for the scarlet heart

[severe siren]

And the fucking heartbeat sounds too

[limpid summit]

If there’s one thing we genuinely don’t need it’s GT

[severe siren]

I was about to be so upset

[spark valve]

You straight up use it to enter memories it’s a dream nail

Hornet is 100% piercing the veil

[limpid summit]

Imagine this though

You go into your red bellhome

[edgy stone]

I thought silksong was gonna have time travel when I started playing it

[limpid summit]

A suspicious little lamp

[severe siren]

Anyway its not impossible for coral area to still exist in a content update and not just a sub area
Not impossible and definitely very likely barnacle is added back

[limpid summit]

You’re prompted to play your Needolin and it plays a different tune for the first time

The Grimm troupe leitmotif

[spark valve]

I think it’s pretty unlikely either of those get added

Steel fuckery I could maybe see

[severe siren]

The barnacle place is very likely imo
An entire town and area? Where is the backer village?

It looked distinct enough too

[limpid summit]

I forget the Hive didn’t actually get expanded did it just visually revamped

[vague jasper]

When Hornet meets lace the second time in choral chambers, she says from her experience that gods can fall, does that mean the godmaster ending or dream no more ending are the canon ones

[spark valve]

The enemies in that area got moved to worm way on the other side of the map I don’t think it’s happening

[limpid summit]

It’s left ambiguous but it’s one of those

[severe siren]

You mean a singular room with 3 of them

[limpid summit]

Do we know who the backer characters are besides the ones we already are sure of actually

[spark valve]

Don’t think so no

[severe siren]

Anyway tammo TC has a tendency to go against anything you say regardless

[limpid summit]

The couriers seem so backer to me

[spark valve]

That is true

[naive cargo]

what area was the Antlion dungeon

[edgy stone]

Fuck is the final boss hard

[limpid summit]

Eh

[edgy stone]

Its just clunker

[severe siren]

I beat the true final boss on my fourth try

[edgy stone]

Its all visual clunker

[spark valve]

TC will NOT add a boss refight mechanic
TC WILL add Grimm troupe

[naive cargo]

Ant lion dungeon was another Backer thing

[edgy stone]

Im talkinf about ||lost lace||

Its all black goop

[spark valve]

That’s crazy but makes sense to some degree since you’ve seen the moveset in part before

[edgy stone]

Its like its taking place in a fucking septic tank

[spark valve]

I think I took like 8 tries or so?

Probably more

[raven condor]

Anyone have a video of the actual ||abyss|| area, and not just ||Lost Lace|| MEGA SPOILERS

[limpid summit]

Could TC have ever actually made a Zote DLC

[severe siren]

No Ogrim in Silksong 🥀

[spark valve]

I want to do that fight some more but going to abyss is a pita

[limpid summit]

Like do you think they had a comprehensive plan for that tier besides the die in one hit

[spark valve]

The original plan was character select mode

[limpid summit]

Genuinely if the barnacle area is DLC we’ll 100% find him in his element

[naive cargo]

die in one hit and it switches to a new character

I think that was the joke

[severe siren]

No boss refight 🥀

[spark valve]

If he was they would probably kill him off in act 3 anyways

The goat deserves better

[severe siren]

The most random useless side characters shrug that shit off

[limpid summit]

Okay so wait

No one’s played through steel soul yet

[severe siren]

No but i plan to soon

[limpid summit]

Who’s the tukk equivalent really

[spark valve]

If I do it’ll be by cheating lmao

[severe siren]

Within the next 24 hours

[limpid summit]

Styx?

[spark valve]

Styx would have to work differently

Could just give you money

[naive cargo]

AppleEgg give it up.... hes not real.... theres no STEEL

[limpid summit]

Wait but is that not crazy if you get it immediately and someone’s been playing maybe 18 hours a day how could Sharpe not be found

[naive cargo]

ITS ONLY BRONZE AND IRON HERE

[severe siren]

Imagine steel soul is just an entirely different storyline

[limpid summit]

Window please make sharpe 007

HK meme needs good old fashioned slander

[spark valve]

Sharpe might be gone but one of his buddies is the achievement icon

Silk soul where are you

[severe siren]

Give me time to collect the last 3 mementos and whatnot on main save and ill try to find out asap

[naive cargo]

what was the choice to revert it back to steel soul

[limpid summit]

Like rain world, you start steel soul in a giant coral area fighting the assassins, but like undertale, once you beat sharpe, mister mushroom breaks the fourth wall and ends your game

[limpid summit]

I’m rooting for you

[naive cargo]

PLEASE TEAM CHERRY I NEED YOUR WORDS MORE THAN EVER

[spark valve]

silk soul was going to use the void mechanics and instead they just put it in the normal mode

[naive cargo]

I was fine with seven years of no silksong info but this steel soul stuff is killing me man.....

[limpid summit]

What does Mr Mushroom even do in Silksong again

I haven’t even started with that

[spark valve]

Same old same old

[severe siren]

Confirm the retconning

[limpid summit]

Lowkey I didn’t even do his quest in HK

[mortal birch]

I am still in act 1 but it's supicous how body themed pharlom is

Marrows Bile Exhaust Organ

[spark valve]

Oh he also sequel baits

[limpid summit]

Wowie

[spark valve]

He does have a chat with the fayforn apparently

[limpid summit]

What a lame

[mortal birch]

Bell HART

[severe siren]

Its so cool how pharloom’s strongest characters are all women and whatnot to compare with Hornet, many bosses are either mothers or were changed in their VAs to sound feminine, examples of that include last judge and sister splinter

[mortal birch]

hmmmm. hmmmmm.

tell me if i'm tweaking it's just curious

[spark valve]

Usually you have to play the needle to make him appear but in this spot when you get there he’s just vibin

[limpid summit]

I was so surprised about last judge but her voice lines are some of the best in the game boss wise

[severe siren]

Fayforn will take us to barnacle bay trust

[limpid summit]

Widow and obviously trobbio are pretty good

[spark valve]

If I ever replay I am getting to citadel via phantom and not doing judge until I have double jump

[limpid summit]

Aww alright

That’s cute

[white panther]

I have a question about Hornet. Please correct me if im wrong
Her mother Herrah wasnt particularly especial and had no heir. Her deal with the Pale King was to have a baby with him in exchange for becoming a dreamer. She spent very little time with Hornet which ended up being raised and trained by....White Lady and maybe someone else (idr). Is all this still true considering Silksong? Not as retcons but maybe with more information we got

[limpid summit]

Yes

[severe siren]

I believe this may also skip the songshrine prereq no? Idk how doable entering via phantom is

[limpid summit]

As of Silksong she was trained by the hive queen Vespa

[spark valve]

It should?

[severe siren]

As in if theres any countermeasures

[limpid summit]

Which uhh wasn’t in hollow knight

[spark valve]

Didn’t you know of somebody who got to the citadel without doing a bunch of shit

[edgy stone]

Is the mr mushroom dialouge another weird game mix up thing

[spark valve]

I guess maybe they got slabbed

[severe siren]

Without fighting lace 1

Lace 1 was skipped for him entirely lmao

Didnt even show up when going back

[spark valve]

Bruh

[worthy knoll]

cant you go through The Mist to Citadel

[severe siren]

Yes

[spark valve]

That takes you to phantom so yes

[severe siren]

I genuinely forgor where you get needolin

[worthy knoll]

I think that skips Lace and the Act 2 cutscene triggers entirely

[worthy knoll]

its Widow in Bellhart

[severe siren]

Ah right

[limpid summit]

Wait wait

[severe siren]

Absolutely criminal this game has no boss refights

[limpid summit]

So in the HK Mr Mushroom cutscene he flies horizontally

To Pharloom who knows

In this one he flies straight up??

[worthy knoll]

yeah I wish it did I'm not looking forward to 5 hour speedrun achievement if I cant practice bosses

[limpid summit]

What are we doing here

[naive cargo]

Barnacles area is on the moon…

[severe siren]

Im not looking forward to 100% in less than 30 hours cause i had to farm rosaries for completion to buy out all merchant stock

Maybe i just wont die its that simple

[limpid summit]

What’s your method fool

[edgy stone]

Steel soul seems damn near impossible

[spark valve]

Steel soul will just be quit out at two masks

[limpid summit]

I just go to grand bellway (lord) and farm the 2 choir dudes forever

[worthy knoll]

yeah theres like 4 merchants I need to buy out, twelve chorus and rhe thief are rough

[spark valve]

My farming spot is left from first shrine nuking the big guys

[limpid summit]

Oh word

[worthy knoll]

its that, first shrine tall enemies, or choral chambers elevator to get the 3 travelling pilgrim groups

[limpid summit]

That’s pretty good

[severe siren]

Its unorthodox but i equip the thief thing for rosaries, get the silk dash with pink lightning, i go to the ruined church bench (before moss mother), i run to the right and climb the ravine, i run to bonebottom and use a silk dash to kill two snitchbugs and and another to kill a third, then quickly run back to reset

I got 5k rosaries today from doing that and it doesnt take too long relative to the amount you get

Also having the eva power is convenient to get silk at the bench every time

[worthy knoll]

the traveling pilgrim groups give you like 100+ per run through

[limpid summit]

Hot damn

[severe siren]

This is only for ||act 3|| btw

[limpid summit]

Yeah true Eva helps

[severe siren]

The runback is quick you could do 2 per minute, ~108 rosaries per minute

[limpid summit]

I wonder what the big misconception of SS will be

[worthy knoll]

silk dash isnt in memorium right

[severe siren]

Silk dash is in ||wormways||

[worthy knoll]

oh

worried I missed it by accident honestly thought the big flea was the only thing there

[severe siren]

You cant really miss anything afaik

I missed the entire slab kidnapping

[spark valve]

Twisted child:

[severe siren]

But i wasnt locked out

[severe siren]

Shut up

[worthy knoll]

ueha I missed the kidnapping every single time

[limpid summit]

Do you know which journal entries you’re missing

[spark valve]

Who thought twisted child was a good idea

[upper narwhal]

Judging from the ending itself, you can see that the ||Grand Mother Silk's ass cracks open before it fades into black, then follows up with a scream from the bud. Probably the bud gets rebirth, I'm kinda curious what it looks like tho (it looks similar to the one who cursed u tho)||

[limpid summit]

I’ve been putting off killing the spitter up near wormways

[worthy knoll]

so im just gonna wait to finish bilewater bc I dont wanna do that before the key

[severe siren]

World sense tells you the number of slots for tools and enemies and shit youre missing

[worthy knoll]

also act 3 seems to have a whole ton of bosses if the things im thinkimg of are in it

[spark valve]

If you have rune rage three silk hearts and weave light you can just stand under a platform and hit r1 being over prepared is funny

[severe siren]

Oh btw you guys should try going to weaver place in far fields, use silkspeed anklets + flea brew, i think its cool imo

[raven cove]

Guys I think HK has no lore

[spark valve]

Alright I’ll do that

[white panther]

the only old bee i remember is the dream one after the Hive boss

[spark valve]

Also on my list is getting high scores at the flea festival

[severe siren]

Worth doing

[spark valve]

Is there like an actual reward

[limpid summit]

What does the ladybug game cap at

[severe siren]

Yes

[worthy knoll]

oh theres another area past anklets?

[severe siren]

Yes